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Carry On Muhammad!

September 16, 2012
  • Controversial YouTube video sparks International Riots!
  • Muslims call for “beheadings!”
  • It’ll all end in tears!

The world is on the brink of an international crisis as a shoddy American comedy movie fuels violent protests around the globe.

Last week, US ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans were killed when Islamic militants fired rocket-propelled grenades on the US consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi.

This sparked days of protests around the world with Muslims condemning “the west.”

The protests are in response to a controversial low-budget video called “Innocence of Muslims.”

According to Reuters news service, the film trailer portrays Muhammad as a “fool, a philanderer and a religious fake.”

NBC News said the film depicted Muhammad “as a womanizer, a homosexual and a child abuser.”

That’s all very well, but more importantly, what do the critics think? For a professional opinion, we asked Margaret and David.

“At first glance this seems like some sort of satirical send up, in the style of the bawdy British “Carry On” movies from the early 1960s and 1970s” said David.

“However, it’s not long before the plot unravels and the whole thing just lumbers along without any sense of rhyme or reason. It might’ve worked as a romantic comedy but even then it lacks even a smidgeon of humour apart from the terrible acting of course. Margaret?”

“Look David, I’m with you on this one. Innocence of Muslims doesn’t have a single artistically redeemable aspect at all. The directing is atrocious, the sets are terrible, and the acting consists of just blank stares and people basically reading straight from the script.”

“It’s an extremely vain project and even if you believe that art can be blasphemous, you’d have to interpret this thing as art first. And that is impossible to imagine. One and half stars from me.”

Much about the film remains a mystery, including who financed it. Several actors have come forward and claimed they were duped about their roles, and that incendiary language was dubbed over their lines.

The filmmaker has identified himself as Sam Bacile however he is believed to be Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a Coptic Christian immigrant from Egypt now living in Los Angeles.

In 2010, Nakoula, who had served prison time on a 1990s conviction for manufacturing methamphetamine, pleaded no contest to bank fraud and served 21 months in prison.

He was released on probation in June 2011. Nakoula told police that he had written the movie’s script while in prison.

Apparently Muslims are upset because the movie portrays Islam as a religion of violence. It is ironic then to react to it with violent protests.

Personally I think it’s an affront to the sensibilities of your average movie going public. But then that’s just me.

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161 Comments leave one →
  1. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2012 10:47 am

    I preferred your review of Prometheus… “they went to a planet and met some aliens. Then they all got killed. The end”

    Very concise and accurate.

    I haven’t watched this one, but at almost 14 minutes, is it worth the time?

  2. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 16, 2012 10:59 am

    No! Not at all…If this offends Muslims can you imagine if we made a epitaph of Mohammed using human excrement? We would have a world war…Seriously, some cultures are stuck in the 7th century man with no hope of evolving…Oops…did I mention evolution and Mohammed?

  3. September 16, 2012 11:10 am

    “at almost 14 minutes, is it worth the time?”

    No, not really, I lasted about six minutes, and then lost interest…

    I really don’t know what all the fuss is about. Apart from the appalling acting, script and “special effects” of course…

  4. Tony permalink
    September 16, 2012 11:13 am

    I enjoyed the way they trod softly upon the earth i.e. they didn’t leave footprints. And the donkey. I liked the donkey.

  5. September 16, 2012 11:17 am

    I didn’t get to the donkey bit. Is it true that Muhammad shags the donkey…?

  6. September 16, 2012 11:33 am

    I like the way the men aren’t afraid to wear their dresses in public.

  7. September 16, 2012 1:35 pm

    Hahaha, the women throw shoes at him at the end. The ‘battle’ features a staggering six camel riders!

    Seriously though. It’s just poorly done parody. Hardly a reason to behead or rampage. Those crazy indoctrinates need to get a sense of humour or learn to turn the other cheek *ahem* .

    Someone should do something similar about the jeebus…oh wait. It’s probably already been done to death (pardon the pun).

    Important to note that it’s only the true wackos who are out in the streets going bonkers & killing invaders Americans. A bit of perspective would show that your average, garden variety muslim wouldn’t be in favour of the carnage any more than any other reasonable person. As with all things, it’s the crackpots who get the air time.

  8. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2012 2:38 pm

    This is a deeply moving documentary, though I think it would have more appeal , and credibility, if Bruce Willis had played Mohammad.

  9. September 16, 2012 4:06 pm

    If teh Muslims thought this was offensive, just wait until they get a load of The Shire.

  10. Tony permalink
    September 16, 2012 4:10 pm

    I thought the editing was slightly disjointed. But that’s probably just me. Two and a half stars.

  11. Tony permalink
    September 16, 2012 4:11 pm

    Why weren’t they rioting over Australia’s Got Talent?

  12. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2012 4:30 pm

    I really don’t know what all the fuss is about. Apart from the appalling acting, script and “special effects” of course…

    Me too!

    My main concern is that my son in law is in the middle of the Saudi desert for the next three weeks!

  13. Khamel Jokeez Arkuntz permalink
    September 16, 2012 4:31 pm

    Do not mock The Prophet (piss be upon him). Infidels!.

  14. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2012 4:57 pm

    You do mean The Profit, don’t you, ToSY

  15. September 16, 2012 5:30 pm

    This is just the Cronulla riots all over again. Racists goaded and provoked peace-loving Muslims who then tried to hold a peaceful demonstration. Then the racist knee-jerk media demonised them with opportunistic photos of a few hotheads and the whole Muslim community is publicly vilified.

    Living in a multicultural society means we all need to respect each others’ beliefs. Shitting on someone else’s religion is a recipe for communal violence. Not only is free speech over-rated, when it is abused it destroys civil society.

  16. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2012 5:43 pm

    That’s nice Minipiglo, as long was we can “blame the media” all our concerns are addressed.

  17. September 16, 2012 5:56 pm

    ToM, sensationalist reporting which demonises an already marginilised group has real and often quite disastrous consequences. It is an adjunct to mob rule. I would prefer to live in a civilised society than one where the passions of the mob are manitpulated by a sensationalist media. They should put society’s interests ahead of ratings and the ideology of the proprietor.

  18. Please appease me, oh yeah permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:15 pm

    The thing is, I didn’t know we’d all gotten together and decided to officially call this guy “the Prophet Muhammad.” I know that’s what he is to 2 billion or so Muslims, but that leaves around 5 billion of us who are undecided on the matter.

    It seems to be the case, however, that major news outlets have begun using the honorific title far more frequently. I don’t think that’s very good journalistic practice. I mean, to 2.2 billion Christians, Jesus Christ is “Lord Jesus Christ”—but we don’t expect The Washington Post to call him that.

    http://tonywoodlief.com/2012/09/15/honoring-muhammad/

  19. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:19 pm

    Minipiglo, this 13 minute film is hardly worthy of the attention.

    Some people just look for something to hate and this meets their criteria. It’s got noting to do with demonising anyone.

  20. September 16, 2012 6:25 pm

    Funny that, ToM. Mocking the Prophet as a murderous pedophile psychopath is deeply offensive to his followers. Who knew?

  21. It's the Prophet, to you permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:28 pm

    “Mocking the Prophet as a murderous pedophile psychopath is deeply offensive to his followers.”

    It’s almost as if MinPiglo hasn’t watched the “film”.

  22. el gordo permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:30 pm

    ‘Living in a multicultural society means we all need to respect each others’ beliefs.’

    I prefer the (conflict free) Menzies era when everyone was encouraged to conform to the anglo saxon model.

  23. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:35 pm

    It is offensive and deliberately so. Amateurish though. People might as well get upset by the activities of the sceptics drinking club at Monash.

    It is bizarre that groups are capable of feigning such outrage. But that’s religion for you.
    ——–
    The film though does demonstrate an inadequacy of the previous “rebbitology”. While that religion had some genuine offers that attracted the gullible faithful-
    • No waiting for salvation.
    • Have it all here, rather than when you die.
    • Easy payment via credit card or monthly instalment.
    • Confidential confessions, other than when film rights are available.

    …it’s clear that “rebbitology” was lacking one aspect that some popular contemporary religions find helpful in corralling the faith – death and beheading. I’m not sure of how to market it, but the PR guys are on the job.

  24. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:39 pm

    This is just the Cronulla riots all over again.

    No its not … this was something that happened in another country … thousands of kilometres away … and pretty silly based on the “evidence” I’ve seen … the Cronulla riots were caused by a bunch of Lebanese thugs who thought they could waltz in and run the joint by beating up people on the beach and harrassing “white girls” .. maybe that’s the similarity …

    Racists goaded and provoked peace-loving Muslims who then tried to hold a peaceful demonstration.

    How many children in Australia carry around (or would be allowed to carry around) a sign rncouraging the beheading of people … medieval in the extreme … pecae-loving? You have to be kidding …

    Then the racist knee-jerk media demonised them with opportunistic photos of a few hotheads and the whole Muslim community is publicly vilified.

    Erm, I saw the “racist knee-jerk media … opportunistic photos” and video … and when police officers in my country are seriously wounded defending the streets of my country … from any hot-heads … I know who I will support every time …

    Living in a multicultural society means we all need to respect each others’ beliefs.

    Tell the Muslim Community that …

    Shitting on someone else’s religion is a recipe for communal violence.

    No its not … only in the Islamic world does that happen! I DON”T LIVE IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD … nor do the Muslims in Sydney! And no-one in Australia shat on anyone … many of us were disgusted that FOUR US diplomats could be killed over a “belief” … and for something that the diplomats had nothing to do with … no-one protested outside the Libyan Embassy over that!

    BTW, shitting on your adopted country’s law and culture is worse … as the time honoured Australian saying highlights … “If you don’t like it here piss off back where you came from!” (And before you start on that I’m an immigrant – one of the “original” boat people …)

    Not only is free speech over-rated, when it is abused it destroys civil society.

    I agree with your last sentence … however, when someone in this country says something we don’t like, we try to stop violence, not promote it!

    And at the moment certain elements in our society are attempting to undermine it … I’ll let you guess which ones …

    Should we stifle free speech and become as the Muslims?

    From a child I was told …

    “Sticks and stones
    May hurt my bones,
    But calling names won’t hurt me”

    You simply cannot defend the indefensible!

  25. September 16, 2012 6:44 pm

    “I prefer the (conflict free) Menzies era when everyone was encouraged to conform to the anglo saxon model.”

    Yes. You are not that different to other fanatics who can’t handle diversity. The jihadists would agree with your monocultural desires, but with a different dominant culture. You aren’t that different, really.

  26. Hear hear permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:45 pm

    What teebee said! :shock:

  27. September 16, 2012 6:46 pm

    “Racists goaded and provoked peace-loving Muslims who then tried to hold a peaceful demonstration.”

    This is the “peace loving” muslims that were calling for “beheadings” yesterday, yes…?

  28. September 16, 2012 6:48 pm

    “Living in a multicultural society means we all need to respect each others’ beliefs.’”

    Oh fuck that. I mean, we should at least be able to take the piss out of each other occassionally …

  29. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:50 pm

    I’m not sure of how to market it, but the PR guys are on the job.

    Thank you, ToM, for providing the platform to pass on our thoughts at this time … as you know we have been working on refining our guillotine and tumbrills for some time now … and we have been working on a family model that will accomplish up to four beheadings at once** … this way a whole family can enter the Other Worlds (whatever is their choosing of course) together … a family that beheads together stays together … oh … we may have to work on the slogan a bit, methinks …

    ** This also reduces costs to the client(s) and speeds up productivity by improving efficiency, and effectiveness …

    BTW, we now offer Bpay and direct bank debit! Rebbitology is aimed at everyone***

    ***Income limits may apply …

  30. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:53 pm

    Oh fuck that. I mean, we should at least be able to take the piss out of each other occassionally …

    Oh, the opportunities to reply are overwhelming … but I respect poofters too much these days … know what I mean , thailor?

    Signed: Pommie Bastard!

    Some people are really fucking stupid and waaaaaay to precious!

  31. The profit reb permalink
    September 16, 2012 6:58 pm

    The Rebbitology platinum membership is the way to go. Even though I’ll be paying it off for the rest of my natural life, the rewards in eternity will more than make up for it. Guaranteed entry into heaven is not to be sneezed at, thank you! And the ten commandments are now optional for me. Sweet!

  32. September 16, 2012 7:02 pm

    Has your head become a burden?

    Do you suffer from fatigue, headaches, or insomnia…?

    Dandruff getting you down…??

    Well friend, we have great news for you!

    All these problems and more can be solved with The Ministry of Rebitology’s lastest innovation “HeadNoMore” (patent pending).

    Yes, it’s true, thanks to HeadNoMore you can experience a new lease on life without the pesky physical burden of maintaining your anatomy above the neckline.

    Imagine how much you’ll save on hair products and shaving gear alone!

    Thanks HeadNoMore!

  33. F.U.Conroy permalink
    September 16, 2012 7:03 pm

    Typical of this c**t, I’m afraid: Conroy urges YouTube to pull video

  34. September 16, 2012 7:06 pm

    “Conroy urges YouTube to pull video”

    Oh for Heaven’s sake, next they’ll be pulling episodes of Kath and Kim cos it might be offensive to Australians…

  35. Sell my hats permalink
    September 16, 2012 7:07 pm

    (Is HeadNoMore included in my lifetime software upgrades?)

  36. public toilet permalink
    September 16, 2012 7:14 pm

    Stuff like that (conroy) is one trend which I do find disturbing about this government.

    Isn’t he also a ‘religious conservative’?
    Hmmmmm.

  37. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2012 7:50 pm

    A spokesman for Senator Conroy said the video, Innocence of Muslims, by an American filmmaker who calls himself “Sam Bacile” was “clearly offensive and (YouTube’s owner) Google should review its terms of service to see if they are being appropriately applied in this case. Australia has strong anti-vilification laws. If people believe this video is in breach of these laws they can make a complaint to Google or the Human Rights Commission,”… BAN HIM!!

  38. Midnight knock permalink
    September 16, 2012 7:58 pm

    Brownshirts on quickmeme.

  39. public toilet permalink
    September 16, 2012 8:03 pm

    I dare Bolt to post it on his blog. :lol:

  40. It's on YouTube, FFS permalink
    September 16, 2012 8:19 pm

    “I dare Bolt to post it on his blog.”

    I think he should, especially since Sen Conroy has (yet again) come down on the side of censorship. It’s time someone in the mainstream posted it. There are only two reasons I can think of that they haven’t already: appeasement or fear.

  41. public toilet permalink
    September 16, 2012 8:30 pm

    I agree and I’m quite serious btw.

    Also, it’s funny to see him squirm under litigation. For that reason alone I’d be astonished if he did post it.

    Conroy can gfhs.

  42. James of North Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2012 8:33 pm

    Actually Bolt was one of the first to post the statement from the Islamic Council.

  43. el gordo permalink
    September 16, 2012 8:41 pm

    ‘Yes. You are not that different to other fanatics who can’t handle diversity.’

    Totally wrong there, I married into a Sri Lankan family when it was still unfashionable.

  44. el gordo permalink
    September 16, 2012 8:44 pm

    “HeadNoMore” (patent pending).
    :-)

  45. Old news permalink
    September 16, 2012 9:11 pm

    Actually, on further investigation, Andrew Bolt linked to the video last Thursday.

    “I suspect the media debate will inevitably switch from condemning the murderous intolerance of free speech to condemning the speaker. Much easier – not least because the film is so cartoonish and abusive. But what is worse, the film or the murders? Of which, I fear, we may see more.”

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/jewish_link_makes_this_film_more_dangerous/

  46. Done it permalink
    September 16, 2012 9:20 pm

    Twice, actually.

    “Is this ludicrous film on Muhammad really as offensive as these beheading videos by some of his followers?”

  47. Offence taken permalink
    September 16, 2012 9:53 pm

  48. public toilet permalink
    September 16, 2012 10:48 pm

    It would be terrible if Bolt was beheaded, just terrible.

  49. September 16, 2012 11:03 pm

    “This is the “peace loving” muslims that were calling for “beheadings” yesterday, yes…?”

    Bashing a large group for the actions a of a tiny minority is like blaming the West for the actions of one mad film-maker. You have much in common with those you criticise.

    The demonstrations we saw yesterday were spontaneous gatherings of people belonging to a persecuted minority in our community. almost all participants were behaving peacefully. Only a few of those attending were confrontational and that was only as a result of police heavy-handedness.

  50. el gordo permalink
    September 16, 2012 11:17 pm

    ‘spontaneous gatherings of people belonging to a persecuted minority in our community.’

    There was nothing spontaneous about the riots, unlike the spontaneous Canberra uprising by our original people a few months back. Apparently they are also persecuted.

    Bob Carr wants to bridge the gap….

    “I have asked Australia’s diplomatic posts around the world to redouble their efforts to bridge the gap between civilizations to encourage the overlap of cultures and the dialogue between faiths,” the Foreign Minister said.

  51. September 17, 2012 1:30 am

    “Muslims who then tried to hold a peaceful demonstration. Then the racist knee-jerk media demonised them with opportunistic photos of a few hotheads”

    MiniPiglo is correct on the embedded media
    What the Australian embedded media call a RIOT is merely a scuffle in the rest of the world.

  52. JAWS permalink
    September 17, 2012 9:41 am

    “…Only a few of those attending were confrontational and that was only as a result of police heavy-handedness.”

    Crap

    Firstly they were not supposed to demonstrate until Sunday. And what do you expect from the Cops when bottles get thrown at them.

    Muslims have a disproportionate tendency to go ape shit over ridiculous non issues. Is it any wonder people in Western Sydney et al are fed up with boat arivals ?

    As Sparta said too many are stuck back in the 7th Century.

  53. September 17, 2012 9:51 am

    Apparently hardly any of them had seen the movie that they were supposedly so upset about….

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-incredible-muslim-hulk-proves-to-be-no-friend-of-islam-either-20120916-260e8.html

  54. September 17, 2012 9:52 am

    Watching the video from my link above, the cops should’ve just shot the fkn lot of them!

  55. Rogue Poll permalink
    September 17, 2012 12:31 pm

    “… the Cronulla riots were caused by a bunch of Lebanese thugs who thought they could waltz in and run the joint by beating up people on the beach and harrassing “white girls” ..”

    Exactly !

    Sydney CBD is a looooooong way from Cronulla and I did not see a single white zinc nosed “Shire” surfie type anywhere near the “action” this time around.

    Seems to me there is just one side doing the provoking.

    How come we dont have Budhists marching up and down Sydney streets violently denouncing the Chinese government each weekend ?

  56. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2012 1:01 pm

    Rogue Poll sounds … noice :-)

  57. September 17, 2012 5:10 pm

    I presume that all those Muslims who denounce and hate “the west” so much will front up to centrelink and relinquish their centrelink entitlements.

  58. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2012 5:40 pm

    How come so many Muslims can watch the video if its banned?

    And how come so many Muslims watch the video to the end?

    I wonder what they’d think of Life of Brian?

  59. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2012 5:40 pm

    How come so many Muslims can watch the video if its banned IN THEIR COUNTRY?

  60. Tony permalink
    September 17, 2012 7:38 pm

    Glenn Greenwald:

    In sum, free speech is not intended to protect benign, uncontroversial, or inoffensive ideas. Those ideas do not need protection. It is intended to protect – to foster – exactly those political ideas that are most offensive, most provocative, most designed to inspire others to act in the name of its viewpoints. One could say that every significant political idea, on the right and the left, has that provocative potential. If speech can be constrained on the ground that it can inspire or provoke violence by others, then a wide range of political ideas, arguably the only ones that really matter, are easily subject to state suppression.

  61. September 17, 2012 7:55 pm

    Amen, Greenwald.

  62. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2012 9:32 pm

    Amen, Greenwald.

    Mmmm …me too, Toillette .. so how come the rightwhingers wet their pantz so much with changes to the 1950’s?

  63. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2012 9:36 pm

    It’s so amusement … here we are aaccusing the Islamic folk of living in the 12 century and our lot still have a fkn Queen as head of state … oh the irony …

    And to make it even more ludicrous a British “royal” house of German, Greek, French and Dutch stock … how the world is stupid!

    The Firm – Mafia in lace and velvet … :lol:

  64. September 17, 2012 9:57 pm

    I’ve thought a bit about this recently…

    I consider xtians, muslims etc to all have ludicrous, man made rubbish at the nexus of their belief systems.

    Clearly, the fundies, muslim in particular, are so damn certain of the credibility of their religion that they’re willing to kill merely because they feel that their doctrine has been affronted. This takes major strength of conviction & absolutist ‘faith’.
    By the same measure, most xtian fundies would never go to the same lengths to reconcile their strange beliefs. Are they weak as piss? Have they half conceded that their beliefs are just a tad silly & they can’t expect the rest of the human population to buy that crap just because they do? Are they ‘enlightened’, in that they’re not still quite so dogmatically bogged in the middle ages of absolute religious intolerance?
    Hell knows, they’ve had periods in their own histories when heresy was met by the fire & the sword of the church.
    Seems to me that radical Islam is just a few centuries behind, in terms of tolerance.

    The basic morality of religion is fine…& shared by the non-religious. It’s all of the literal derivative crap around the edges that gets the blood of the zealots pumping.

    It’s all horseshit.

  65. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2012 10:10 pm

    It’s all horseshit.

    That last sentence is most succinct, Toillette! ;-)

  66. el gordo permalink
    September 17, 2012 10:23 pm

    ‘I don’t actually recall ever meeting Tony because he’s a little bit older than me, just a little bit, but I do recall dating his younger sister at university and even in those days Tony was spoken very highly of in his family, with great awe and respect, and the phrase “future PM” was often whispered or should I say yelled around the family table.’

    Justin Rickard on Abbott.

  67. el gordo permalink
    September 17, 2012 10:25 pm

    ooops wrong thread….apologies to the prophet.

  68. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 18, 2012 1:12 am

    You know, it would be refreshing if just once, just once when these Islamic nut jobs go about killing in the name of whatever perceived grievance, they didn’t have a “leftwing” apologist trying to remind us of the Crusades, The Inquisition etc…It is apples and oranges guys and if you cannot understand this you are not really paying attention (it is 2012 by the way)
    ….Also, to keep reminding us that this “minority” that seems to take over entire countries at a whim should just be treated as a blip is reckless; it is hardly small enough to be dismissed as such. Especially since the West is hell bent on importing it in an effort to show just how “open minded” we are.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/066chpzg.asp?pg=1

    Yes, we all know a Muslim or two and yeah, great folks, peaceful blah, blah, blah. It is incontrovertible that as the numbers of Muslims grow in any country so does the extremism by simple math alone. Worse, as the extremist grow in numbers the “moderate” becomes more and more inconsequential or impotent, almost like spectators…Find me one, just one Muslim majority country that is not racked by this insanity, anybody? When will some wake up to the fact that unlike other religions, Islam is a pseudo political movement with an AGENDA…Until the “apologist and moral equivocators” stop making excuses for this “30 year old stepchild” still living at home, we are never going to see any progress made on this front…There is a problem with Islam, period! Stop making excuses….

    As somebody who supported the Iraq and Afghanistan conflict as a gutsy move to bring freedom to the middle east or at least give them a chance, I was disappointed to have to come to terms with a simple concept, their cultures are utterly incompatible with ours as many experts have forewarned…They have been given a “choice” and most, have chosen the 7th century, again!

  69. September 18, 2012 1:48 am

    I think you are the one not paying attention, if you think my comment was some kind of leftwing apologetics for Islam.

    Gutsy move indeed! What an utter crock. American exceptionalist arrogance, deciding what’s best for other parts of the planet whether they want your ‘help’ or not.

    My comment was damning of religion generally, seeing as how you appear to have missed the point of it by several fathoms of generic UScentric twaddle.

    “Seems to me that radical Islam is just a few centuries behind, in terms of tolerance.

    The basic morality of religion is fine…& shared by the non-religious. It’s all of the literal derivative crap around the edges that gets the blood of the zealots pumping.

    It’s all horseshit.”

    Try reading what I wrote next time. Not reading what you expect a stereotype to have written.

    I have no idea whether you’re religious or not. If you are, defend your horseshit.

  70. September 18, 2012 1:50 am

    Indonesia, Malaysia. That is two majority muslim countries not “racked(sic) by this insanity”.

  71. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 18, 2012 6:08 am

    “My comment was damning of religion generally, seeing as how you appear to have missed the point of it by several fathoms of generic UScentric twaddle.”

    Hmm…So you damn “religion generally”? I hardly missed the point, in fact that was my whole point…It is all fine and well to make historic reference or imply them but how does that critically evaluate the situation at hand? By asserting that it is “religion” and not a particular religion, as we all know it is, you are in fact absolving the perpetrators of responsibility and lumping them in with the other religions of the world who, sorry to bring this to your attention, hardly behave the same way…Are their crazies in every religion; to be sure but only one, ONE that behaves in this manner currently no matter how much we try to appease them. It is moronic to keep pointing to the occasional nut job that kills in the name of another religion and equate that with what we are seeing here; it is simplistic…

  72. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 18, 2012 6:10 am

    “Gutsy move indeed! What an utter crock. American exceptionalist arrogance, deciding what’s best for other parts of the planet whether they want your ‘help’ or not.”

    Arrogance, no…But I did unfortunately buy into the “leftwing” mantra that all cultures are created equal (isn’t that the essence of multiculturalism). If given the chance I “hoped” they would seek better lives for themselves, fight back against archaic systems and beliefs that have always held them back. Why do you think both of our countries are still in Afghanistan? For instance, don’t many believe it is the dictators of the Middle East that have oppressed their people by denying them freedoms and human rights, not the people themselves…I hoped Democracy would sweep across the Middle East, people would get a taste and fight to keep it…What I have learned is, some cultures are incompatible with said freedoms, they can only maintain order/themselves through oppression and are only ruled through violence and force…

    You want to blame the US, “UScentric twaddle”, what is that anyway? Freedom and the responsibilities that come with it you mean? I find it really amusing if not disturbing though; tell me, what was the alternative? How do you bring a culture out of the dark ages? With aid? Laptops? The UN? More talk about poverty? More NGO’s? Protests? The answer is, YOU HAVE NO IDEA! Your solution, most likely like all who lay center left, is to prattle on about the arrogance of American exceptionalism? Blame us like the morons in the streets killing for the same reason. Does your country not claim to be the “lucky ones”? Please tell me you can do better than take the failed concept of blaming all of the world problems on American policy and before us European colonialism? One only has to look back across time and see these concepts simply do not hold up. At what point is it time for a child to take responsibility for his or her actions my friend?

  73. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 18, 2012 6:59 am

    “Indonesia, Malaysia. That is two majority muslim countries not “racked(sic) by this insanity”.

    Indonesia:

    http://www.radicalislam.org/category/tags/indonesia

    http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Muslim-radicals-colonising-the-country,-Indonesian-bishops-say-20344.html

    Malaysia:

    http://www.onislam.net/english/news/asia-pacific/453205-youth-want-quran-malaysias-highest-law.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/6963436/Religious-violence-in-Malaysia-escalates-as-more-churches-attacked.html

    Malaysia seems to be trying to keep its head above water but for how long is the question…But in regards to this recent episode, definitely a more rational and civilized response…

  74. el gordo permalink
    September 18, 2012 7:41 am

    Sparta makes a lot of sense.

  75. September 18, 2012 7:46 am

    “Malaysia seems to be trying to keep its head above water but for how long is the question…”

    Malaysia (Penang specifically) reminds me a lot of what Hong Kong must’ve been like in the 1960’s.

    The popular Chinese State government has done wonders for Penang. So much so, that the economy continues to boom. The prominent cultures of Chinese, Malays and Indians live harmoniously side by side despite their differences, a quality that Penangites are quite proud of rather than being something that divides them.

  76. el gordo permalink
    September 18, 2012 7:54 am

    ‘America, which uses the pretext of freedom of expression…, needs to understand that putting out the whole film will have very grave consequences around the world.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/hezbollah-warning-grave-consequences-if-full-antiislam-film-is-released-20120918-2630s.html#ixzz26lZScIHr

    Bring it on, I’m ready to go head to head with these characters who think their prophet is supernatural.

  77. September 18, 2012 9:01 am

    “Hezbollah warning: ‘grave consequences’ if full anti-Islam film is released”

    Much hilarity!

    What, more eratic yelling and angry placards…?

  78. el gordo permalink
    September 18, 2012 9:42 am

    Talking of placards…

    ‘The mother of a young child who was seen holding a sign saying “behead all those who insult the prophet” during the Sydney riots has spoken to police, with authorities deeming her children to be safe.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/behead-sign-child-deemed-safe-as-mother-talks-to-police-20120918-26368.html#ixzz26m1Qona2

  79. September 18, 2012 9:58 am

    “Bring it on, I’m ready to go head to head with these characters who think their prophet is supernatural.”

    How very brave. Sounds like you’ve grown an extra testicle.

    In a civilised society free speech has limits. Babbling anarchy leaves little space for rational discussion and, more importantly, spiteful humiliations heaped upon marginalised social groups leads to oppression and ultimately to retaliation. The archetype of Western chauvinism consists of tying a dog to a post, whipping it into a frenzy and then complaining that it barks and snaps and bites. Blaming the victim for reacting to the vicious denigration of all they hold dear may reinforce Western notions of cultural superiority but it does nothing to contribute to making the world a better place.

    In a tolerant and decent society people need to respect each other. Sadly it has come to the stage where legal mechanisims are required to enforce common decency.

  80. JAWS permalink
    September 18, 2012 10:22 am

    “……spiteful humiliations heaped upon marginalised social groups leads to oppression and ultimately to retaliation”

    Oh really……………………………..what a cop out

    If so why wasn’t the entire Muslim population of Sydney involved rather than the criminal and the “looking for a fight” elements.

    And why unlawfully protest on the streets of Sydney and beat up cops due to a 15 minute You Tube clip condemned by the US Government and filmed by an convicted felon Egyptian Coptic.

    How distant can it get

  81. el gordo permalink
    September 18, 2012 10:30 am

    ‘In a tolerant and decent society people need to respect each other.’

    Australia is a successful multiracial society, we are tolerant. When the indigenous mob had their spontaneous arising in Canberra it was amusing, because of the political involvement of joolya’s staff, but these god botherers need a good talking too.

  82. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 18, 2012 10:44 am

    I’d have to observe that, despite all the privations loaded on them for 220 years, the Australian indigenous population has never reacted with such hate and violence.

    If Minipiglo believes the Muslims have been provoked into the behaviour, Aboriginal people somehow haven’t?

    There appear to be marginal groups in the Muslim population that are just looking to stir up hatred.

  83. September 18, 2012 10:46 am

    “Blaming the victim for reacting to the vicious denigration of all they hold dear”

    Oh puleaze, anyone who professes to be genuinely “offended” by that ludicrous video really ought to take a good look at themselves.

  84. public toilet permalink
    September 18, 2012 5:35 pm

    Yes, Sparta, you did miss the point entirely. Twice now, as it happens.
    And I wasn’t ‘blaming’ UScentric twaddle for anything. I was observing that your preceding comments were largely UScentric twaddle.

    I’m not even going to begin to argue the rest on a mobile.

    Artful dodging of whether or not you’re religious too.

  85. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2012 6:15 pm

    Artful dodging of whether or not you’re religious too.

    Yep, noticed that mesel’ … why avoid the question FFS? Ashamed? Frightened? Unsure?

    Hey, I’m agnostic who gives a $#!t … Jeeeesus Christ … talk about wimpy!

    In my experience the godbothers are generally rightwhingers (Y’know Divine Right an’ all that) … and for some reason or other, always seem mean spirited the more “devout” they are … just my observation … but it would make wonderful research …

    Disclaimer: … did I tell you my sister is a godbotherer of the Mick persuasion?

  86. public toilet permalink
    September 18, 2012 6:28 pm

    I only think it’s relevant because he’s going in hard on Islam in it’s entirety; not just the radicals.
    What does he want, to ban the religion altogether? He claims it’s a political movement.

    I’m suspicious, because a lot of xtians like to play bash the moosies, maybe it negates them having to explain their own ridiculous beliefs.
    For all I know Sparta is an atheist; but a majority of tanks would be too embarrassed to admit that due to the prevailing sentiments of their countrymen.
    I think believers know that they end up looking silly if they try & mount a defense of the dogma.

  87. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2012 6:38 pm

    He claims it’s a political movement.

    It actually IS, Toillette … they really do want to rule the Globe … The Muslim Brotherhood now rule Egypt … watch for Sharia Law soon … Islam is a religio/political movement … always has been …

  88. September 18, 2012 6:52 pm

    The funny thing is, that I’ve lived in a Muslim society (Malaysia) where gays, lesbians and transexuals are more accepted than they are here in Australia. The degree of society’s acceptance/tolerance there never ceases to amaze me.

    I think the extremist Muslims are largely found in the middle east. And my opinion about those extremists has changed. I used to be a bit more sympathetic to their plight but not anymore. If they come here to Australia, and then complain about it, then they just fuck back off to Iran or wherever as far as I’m concerned….

  89. public toilet permalink
    September 18, 2012 7:43 pm

    I’m not excusing or condoning the violent, intimidatory behavior of radicals in any way. Contrary to what Sparta, or anyone else, wants to frame my comments as.
    I’ve simply made a distinction between the extremists & normal people. Such a distinction most certainly does exist.
    Reb’s comment is in the same line.

    As if I sympathize with religious conservative Burkina who brainwash their children with hatred & myth.

    Also, contrary to what youze are stating, I very much doubt that the average followers of Islam are into it politically or have any designs on world domination.

    As I asked before, what are you advocating, banning a religion you don’t like?I don’t like any of them but I’d never go that far or support such a move.

    To reiterate, I think that it’s fair game for ridicule & the gross overreacting is just that.

  90. public toilet permalink
    September 18, 2012 7:45 pm

    Wtf, Burkina? Pred txt.

    Shoulda been ‘zealots’ or some such.

  91. Slip slop slap permalink
    September 18, 2012 7:58 pm

    I think you meant burkini.

  92. September 18, 2012 8:14 pm

    “what are you advocating, banning a religion you don’t like?”

    Fucked if I know Boss, but it seems that the “extremists” have played right into the hands of the Islamathobes…

    If they’d hoped that their “Behead anyone who offends the prophet” placards were going to resonate with Australian mainstream society (did they?) then they were mistaken.

    They’ve just proven themselves to be a pack of fuckwits who are incompatible with contemporary Australian society.

    Oddly enough, maybe it needed to be “aired.”

    Maybe we have all become too complacent thinking that “multicultural Australia” was all just dinky-di….

  93. Ban teh god botherers permalink
    September 18, 2012 8:30 pm

    Armchair Opinionator is the only one here I’ve heard call for (all) religions to be banned*. Has someone else done it? If so I musta missed it. :-(

    *A rhetorical flourish, no doubt. ;-)

  94. September 18, 2012 8:33 pm

    ToSY, has it ever occurred to you that you’re just “sniping from the sidelines” an accusation that your comrade snacty used to level at N5 all the time..?

    (Just sayin)

  95. Sideline sniper permalink
    September 18, 2012 8:36 pm

    So you keep saying, reb. And based on that evidence, maybe I am. :-|

  96. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 18, 2012 8:40 pm

    There is no pleasing those people who want to behead cynics. I mean, it really doesn’t persuade me to join up.

    They need a new PR company. Who was the guy that helped out Lara Bingle?

    By the way… is it just me or do most of those blokes look like they spend their days hanging out at gym, overdosing on steroids, protein supplements and tim tams?

  97. September 18, 2012 8:44 pm

    “based on that evidence, maybe I am”

    Don’t let me give you a guilt complex though, dog knows youse cnuts have enough of that on your own…

  98. Wana Yuz-Kuntz permalink
    September 18, 2012 8:51 pm

    “Don’t let me give you a guilt complex though”

    Don’t worry, you won’t. ;-)

  99. el gordo permalink
    September 18, 2012 9:03 pm

    ‘is it just me or do most of those blokes look like they spend their days hanging out at gym, overdosing on steroids, protein supplements and tim tams?’

    They have tim tams written all over their face.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/former-boxer-ahmed-elomar-man-denies-affray-charges-over-sydney-riot/story-e6freuy9-1226476582431

  100. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 18, 2012 9:15 pm

    “I was observing that your preceding comments were largely UScentric twaddle.
    I’m not even going to begin to argue the rest on a mobile.”

    Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, which although offensive to me I would still fight to defend your right to express, unlike your Islamic brethren. However, it is substantiated by nothing but “give peace a chance”, so it stands to reason your comments add up to the usual “drive by” commentary; they do nothing to advance your position I am afraid…

    “Artful dodging of whether or not you’re religious too.”

    I didn’t dodge anything, I simply think it is irrelevant to the discussion we are having because no matter what offense is laid on me, as an American, I believe the exchange of ideas is essential to a healthy Democracy. Is that not why we blog here? I think your rationale is naive and logically indefensible but since you press the matter, NO…However, for all of Christianity’s faults even you know they are not a threat to the West in any way but your ideology refuses to let you say otherwise, so you morally equivocate.

  101. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 18, 2012 9:35 pm

    “Yep, noticed that mesel’ … why avoid the question FFS? Ashamed? Frightened? Unsure?”

    Nope, as mentioned, IRRELEVANT? Are you overweight? Bald? Have a small penis? See, it is not really relevant to any discussion we are having, in fact it is a distraction. One thing I really like about this form of debate etc is the ability to have a discussion in a way lacking in a table forum…It has been my experience that when people really have not thought their logic or ideas through they divert and redirect, the famous “Red Herring”. However, I try not to pull that card and instead exploit the Red Herring instead…

    Honestly though TB, join the discussion…I will shorten my mantra just for you…

  102. el gordo permalink
    September 18, 2012 9:36 pm

    Sparta is coming through crystal clear.

    ‘I think your rationale is naive and logically indefensible…’

    It needed to be aired.

  103. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 18, 2012 9:40 pm

    “They’ve just proven themselves to be a pack of fuckwits who are incompatible with contemporary Australian society.”

    I have to agree completely…In fact, it is the only “group” that seems to have such difficulties…Universally, no matter where in the West they find themselves it is the same old story…What is it this “group” has in common again? Hmm…….

  104. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 18, 2012 9:42 pm

    Morning from Chicago el gordo….or should I say, Good evening…LOL

  105. public toilet permalink
    September 18, 2012 10:11 pm

    You’re deliberately misinterpreting what I said again.

    Islamic brethren? Hardly.

    Plenty of other misrepresentations in there too. Perhaps I’m being unclear. I know you are not a fool. Nor am I.
    I will endeavour to better explain myself later on a keyboard.

    I get that you don’t like my needling your country; fair enough. But you

  106. public toilet permalink
    September 18, 2012 10:12 pm

    Stupid mobile, more later.

  107. el gordo permalink
    September 18, 2012 10:13 pm

    Hello Sparta and good night.

  108. Tony permalink
    September 19, 2012 9:24 am

    Defining Ideas: John Locke’s Lesson for the Arab World

  109. TB Queensland permalink
    September 19, 2012 10:04 am

    Nope, as mentioned, IRRELEVANT?

    It’s not irrelevant, we ARE talking about religion … bias and prejudice are always present in human beings … its irrelevant yo you because you KNOW … we don’t … didn’t …

    Are you overweight? Bald? Have a small penis

    Now that is irrelevant and a very poor analogy … but … isn’t everyone these days (especially in the USA – sarc alert!) … at my age and gender its almost inevitable … why would the size of my penis be at all relevant … all I can tell you it functions perfectly … and I even know my
    kids are mine … do you?

    Honestly though TB, join the discussion…I will shorten my mantra just for you…

    Y’know the thing about septic tanks that always amuses me … how they patronise everyone and know nothing about the world outside of the US of A … strangely, I like their childlike innocence and lack of adult humour … when they are in their own country they are wonderful hosts … outside of it, that all knowing, imperialist mentality kicks in …

    Just to clarify for you … I don’t NEED your PERMISSION to post here or anywhere …

    Now we’ve got that out of the way … on with the discussion … :-)

  110. "You lot" founding member permalink
    September 19, 2012 10:28 am

    Egypt is looking more like post-1979 Iran every day.

    Cairo has issued international arrest warrants for eight Americans-—seven of them Coptic Christians from Egypt-—who are allegedly involved with the anti-Mohammad video everyone’s rioting over. The prosecutor’s office also issued a warrant for Terry Jones, the Koran-burning nutjob in Florida, just because, and says if convicted the defendants may get the death penalty.

    Mahmoud Salem (aka “Sandmonkey”) was interviewed on CNN yesterday. He says the new Muslim Brotherhood government is much more oppressive than the Mubarak regime. That should have been obvious to everyone in advance, though astonishingly it was not. And Mahmoud is hardly a Mubarak apologist. He was one of the most outspoken critics of the ancien régime in the world, and he was arrested and beaten for it.

    He also says explicitly that Egypt’s government isn’t an ally and that “if the United States wants to cut the aid [money], please, do it…The majority of the aid goes to the military anyway. We don’t see it.”

  111. el gordo permalink
    September 19, 2012 10:42 am

    ‘outside of it’

    The ugly Austrayans in Bali are a sight to behold.

  112. TB Queensland permalink
    September 19, 2012 11:05 am

    That should have been obvious to everyone in advance, though astonishingly it was not.

    ToSY, you may recall a comment I posted during the Egyptian riots concerning, The Muslim Brotherhood … ” be careful what you wish for” …

  113. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 19, 2012 11:27 am

    “It’s not irrelevant, we ARE talking about religion … bias and prejudice are always present in human beings ”

    Again irrelevant TB, discussing whether I am “prejudice” has nothing to do with Islam, Middle Eastern culture etc…Besides, are you able to read minds? If we are discussing the most recent spate of hatred to be put on display by the “religion of peace” I think trying to elicit whether I am prejudice hardly analyzes anything relevant to this thread. Let’s say for the sake of the argument I was a confessed bigot, does it change the reality of modern Islam? Again, irrelevant, do try to follow…

    “Now that is irrelevant and a very poor analogy …”

    Ok….I don’t think you needed to go line by line on the sarcasm bit. Poor analogy, maybe but all the same, still irrelevant like the question at hand…

    “Y’know the thing about septic tanks blah, blah, blah…”

    It is funny how people outside of the US always assume much about us, yourself included; most of which comes from holiday or worse, the media…If I know nothing then come correct me, I wait patiently. If you wish to criticize my posts then do so with substance instead of the name calling (in your mind you are more diplomatic I suppose?)…Imperialist, ahh…says much I am afraid and I am hardly surprised you cling to one of the most prized leftwing theories (which any child can refute but some people like things they can understand regardless, afraid of the unknown and all)…It is not only ironic that you find yourself enjoying the comforts of an imperialist past but probably seem to think that world history started 200 plus years ago (I am sure you are racked with guilt but just not enough to live what you preach, clearly so you fight the good fight by trying to make everybody else feel “guilty”)…Perhaps you can tell me why you think America is imperialist since you probably cling to the mundane notion that it is “us” that causes such behavior?…It is all fine and well to throw it out there but clearly you don’t understand its meaning, or do you? Doesn’t matter, this is about Islam, right? Or my personal prejudices? See again, that’s why its irrelevant…Getting the picture now?

    “Just to clarify for you … I don’t NEED your PERMISSION to post here or anywhere …”

    Ok, “big man beats chest”…I don’t think I did anything but encourage you to engage instead of playing the wallflower with the “3rd person context”. Not sure why you rolled out of bed feeling your “oats”; never implied that you needed anybody’s permission….. But now that you are awake do try to stay on topic, if you can…Now, ISLAM, the religion of peace…LOL

  114. JAWS permalink
    September 19, 2012 11:50 am

    So I guess it is very unlikely there will ever be an Islamic version of “The Life of Brian”

  115. Ol' Sancty permalink
    September 19, 2012 12:06 pm

    Geez I had some blues with Dad over The Life of Brian. He believed the game of Chinese Whispers that it was a film that mocked Christianity specifically. It wasn’t.

    In fact the very first scene is dedicated to drawing the distinction between the character, Brian, and the historical figure, Jesus Christ. It then goes on to fully mock the human tendency to get swept up in the latest hysteria, be it religious, political, or if you apply it to today, scientific.

    You might just as well view, as I do, the mob representing the AGW hysteria as anything else.

    I think the Church has pretty well come to that conclusion about the film now but I do remember there being a fair bit of anger about it. The anger was misplaced.

  116. Ol' Sancty permalink
    September 19, 2012 12:07 pm

    In other words, there is already an Islamic version of the Life of Brian. It’s the Life of Brian.

  117. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 19, 2012 12:16 pm

    “It then goes on to fully mock the human tendency to get swept up in the latest hysteria”

    I would have to agree in most circumstances but when you start to see said mob pop its head up in Sydney for example, well it does give pause…

  118. JAWS permalink
    September 19, 2012 12:23 pm

    “…………..but I do remember there being a fair bit of anger about it.”

    Oh yeah……………..was there what.

    I think Mel Gibson’s film about Christ (cant recall the name) also copped a hammering from Christians.

  119. JAWS permalink
    September 19, 2012 12:29 pm

    “I would have to agree in most circumstances but when you start to see said mob pop its head up in Sydney for example, well it does give pause…”

    Some Muslims need to f**king well just “harden up” and just accept that in a secular society their Church is not running the Government.

    You never see them going into a frenzy when one of their Islamic sisters gets stoned to death in Afghanistan or their brothers get gunned down for being caught by the Taliban dancing in their village.

    Oh no……………………..they’d rather choose to blow the joint up over some f**king 15 minute shit video that you can just about guarantee they have never seen.

    And we need to ensure they don’t use Western Democracy to attack Western Democracy.

  120. el gordo permalink
    September 19, 2012 12:36 pm

    ‘You might just as well view, as I do, the mob representing the AGW hysteria as anything else.’

    Hear hear…

  121. September 19, 2012 12:40 pm

    Apologies to all for the length…

    You’re deliberately misinterpreting what I said again. OK, so here’s a few of the ideas you’ve attributed to me that are just plain false…

    “, you are in fact absolving the perpetrators of responsibility…”

    Where did I absolve the perpetrators? All I did was make a distinction between ‘the perpetrators’ & those who are not perpetrators ie. the vast majority of muslims. You clearly disagree with this, or so it seems. I read your comments as lumping them all in together. I dispute that an entire group can be viewed that way. It is ludicrous to suggest that they’re all fundamentalists.

    “You want to blame the US,”

    Come again? Where did I do that? Are you serious or just assuming?

    ” blaming all of the world problems on American policy and before us European colonialism?”

    I don’t see the world in such black & white terms. I would never blame “all of the world’s problems” on any one thing. I may argue that those things are contributing factors to a sense of collective aggrievement among radical muslims, but I’m not so infantile as to not recognise that the rioting in this instance is due to them taking disproportionate offense at a stupid short film. Despite what you reckon I think.

    “your Islamic brethren”

    I daresay my track record of disparaging organised religion is long & strong enough to preclude that as a line of attack on me from you. That is just a ridiculous association to make. Utterly wrong. I suspect you were just adding it in for artistic license

    “it stands to reason your comments add up to the usual “drive by” commentary”

    You may not like what I say, but I’ve been saying it on this blog & it’s various predecessors for many a year. I’ve contributed here a lot more than you & my comments won’t be fobbed off as ‘drive by’. You are not the arbiter of credibility here.

    “for all of Christianity’s faults even you know they are not a threat to the West in any way but your ideology refuses to let you say otherwise”

    Again, what bullshit! I am not rigidly aligned with an ideology, as you are suggesting. Of course I know that xtians are benign for the most part & don’t threaten the west. You clearly mistook one of my comments. I will expand on it later to clarify what was supposed to be a broad wondering about the nature of religion in general and what changed centuries ago that resulted in xtianity being generally non-violent & ‘enlightened’ (or neutered, depending upon your pov)…as opposed to radical Islam, which I specifically stated was centuries behind.

    Most of your arrogant responses above (& yes, they are arrogant, condescending & US centric) are an odd melding of what you think I think; not an actual rebuttal of what I do think. You may not recall, but I’ve argued with you plenty over the years, not for a while but beginning at Dunlop’s Blogocracy. I’m unsure if you’re aware of that.

    If you didn’t react to my comments as if I’m some generic leftwing stereotype, you may pause to consider that I even agree with the central thrust of the issue at hand, which is (correct me if I’m wrong) that the violent & bloody ‘protests’ from Islamic radicals across the globe (even here in Australia) are contemptible. I think the movie is poorly made, stupid & probably deliberately provocative; but I have no problem whatsoever with such things being made. I agree that they should either ignore it or laugh at it; not threaten beheadings & rampage over it. I certainly don’t think, and have never stated, that your government should be apologising for the movie or that we should cringe away from free speech; quite the opposite.

  122. el gordo permalink
    September 19, 2012 12:40 pm

    Yep…I agree with all Jaws comment.

  123. September 19, 2012 12:45 pm

    As it happens, I also agree with all of the comment Jaws made @ 12:29.

  124. September 19, 2012 12:50 pm

    Sparta, given your apparent insinuations that Islam as a whole is such a huge problem wherever it goes (and I dispute that Malaysia & Indonesia aren’t relatively stable, muslim majority countries btw, your links don’t undo that)…what do you propose should be done about it?
    That is what I was getting at back up the thread when I asked if you thought it should be ‘banned’.
    I suspect you don’t think it should be banned, obviously.

    I wasn’t suggesting solutions, just commenting on my own observations.

    You can’t expel an entire culture from a myriad of countries.

  125. JAWS permalink
    September 19, 2012 1:58 pm

    “We reject justifications of insulting Islam and its sanctities in the name of freedom of speech,” the group says.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/muslim-group-encourages-more-protests-20120919-265rk.html#ixzz26sr0OKb5

    The government nor democracy is not there to protect their f**king religion from fre speech. It only allows them to practice it

    Its shaping up to be a BIG weekend in Sydney Town. I can see the KKK types getting involved somehow.

    Before this is over I think we might see some body bags

  126. TB Queensland permalink
    September 19, 2012 2:28 pm

    Again irrelevant TB, discussing whether I am “prejudice” has nothing to do with Islam, Middle Eastern culture etc…

    No it doesn’t … but often the environment and upbringing of a child/adult influences his/her outlook on the world around them … and thus the comments you post on a blog …

    Besides, are you able to read minds?

    Now you’re being irrelevant …

    If we are discussing the most recent spate of hatred to be put on display by the “religion of peace” I think trying to elicit whether I am prejudice (sic) hardly analyzes anything relevant to this thread.

    Just the fact that you are defending it so vehemently tells me its important … to you …

    Let’s say for the sake of the argument I was a confessed bigot, does it change the reality of modern Islam? Again, irrelevant, do try to follow…

    No-one said or implied it would change modern Islam (isn’t that an oxymoron?) only an arrogant person would even assume that …

    “Now that is irrelevant and a very poor analogy …”

    Ok….I don’t think you needed to go line by line on the sarcasm bit. Poor analogy, maybe but all the same, still irrelevant like the question at hand…

    Why not? I like “line by line” analysis … there ya go again trying to tell what I should or shouldn’t do … shades of imperialism …

    “Y’know the thing about septic tanks blah, blah, blah…”

    It is funny how people outside of the US always assume much about us, yourself included; most of which comes from holiday or worse, the media…If I know nothing then come correct me, I wait patiently.

    … another assumption on your part I’m afraid … and I notice you’re still giving me instructions … (what’s worse than a holiday?)

    If you wish to criticize my posts then do so with substance instead of the name calling (in your mind you are more diplomatic I suppose?)…

    If you wrote something original, interesting and with substance yourself I probably would … I’m trying to be as diplomatic as you are …

    Imperialist, ahh…says much I am afraid and I am hardly surprised you cling to one of the most prized leftwing theories (which any child can refute but some people like things they can understand regardless, afraid of the unknown and all)…

    You brought up the imperialist bit and having lived in an Empire I can spot the symptoms immediately …

    It is not only ironic that you find yourself enjoying the comforts of an imperialist past but probably seem to think that world history started 200 plus years ago

    More assumptions … your history may have only run a couple of hundred years … mine goes back much further … and most of the “comforts” you talk about were at the cost of kids working in mines, factories and on battlefields far from home (if they had one!)

    (I am sure you are racked with guilt but just not enough to live what you preach, clearly so you fight the good fight by trying to make everybody else feel “guilty”)…

    MORE assumptions … why would I feel guilty? What fkn good fight? What fkn preaching? If you feel guilty that’s a personal issue and you should seek help … WTF are you rambling about?

    Perhaps you can tell me why you think America is imperialist since you probably cling to the mundane notion that it is “us” that causes such behavior?

    Not “us” the US … most Australians are sick of fighting for the US “ideal” … and being treated like a third world country when it comes to commercial and business dealings …

    … ask a few South American or Filipinos or Japanese or Vietnamese or someone from the Middle East …

    …It is all fine and well to throw it out there but clearly you don’t understand its meaning, or do you?

    I got a taste for a couple of years …

    BTW … sun never set on the British Empire … you lot just piddle around the edges .. the USA tries to control support any dictator controlled country you think you can bleed …

    Doesn’t matter, this is about Islam, right?

    Well it was …

    Or my personal prejudices?

    That influence your comments … just like mine …

    See again, that’s why its irrelevant…Getting the picture now?

    Obviously not … teacher …

    “Just to clarify for you … I don’t NEED your PERMISSION to post here or anywhere …”

    Ok, “big man beats chest”…I don’t think I did anything but encourage you to engage instead of playing the wallflower with the “3rd person context”.

    LOL … do you actually read your comments? … I don’t need “encouragement” to “engage” … and I don’t think I’m a wallflower … and I missed any third person context … but its been so long now …

    Not sure why you rolled out of bed feeling your “oats”; never implied that you needed anybody’s permission…..

    Oh that’s funny, rolled oats … I actually eat them five out of seven …

    No of course not … refer wallflower above … FMD!

    But now that you are awake do try to stay on topic, if you can…Now, ISLAM, the religion of peace…LOL

    If I want to stay off topic I will (see ya still giving instructions) … do you know how Ol’ Sancty got his name … I suggest you ask him …

    Oh .. Islam … religion of peace, my arse … if they want to behead people – deport them … if they want to incite people to riot – deport them … review the immigrant screening process for all Muslims … seriously reconsider multiculturalism one of politics disasters – automatically creating division between cultures … why should my country have its culture challenged by people who want to live here … fkn stupid idea …

  127. TB Queensland permalink
    September 19, 2012 2:33 pm

    Whew!

  128. September 19, 2012 2:36 pm

    “Its shaping up to be a BIG weekend in Sydney Town. I can see the KKK types getting involved somehow.”

    Yep, I reckon things are going to come to a head & get even uglier than last weekend. The loudmouths & hotheads from both sides are likely to come together. Moderate voices are always drowned out by angry mobs.
    Glad I live a long way from that sort of shit.

  129. TB Queensland permalink
    September 19, 2012 3:14 pm

    And as I’ve just posted on the other thread the gay community will be up in arms too … what a world of foolishness … usually caused by a few …

  130. September 19, 2012 3:28 pm

    Whodathunkit!? 8-O

    He doesn’t spend every waking moment rioting & being outraged. Maybe he’s actually a person!

  131. JAWS permalink
    September 19, 2012 3:48 pm

    Training to be a Bus Bomber ?

  132. JAWS permalink
    September 19, 2012 3:49 pm

    He’s probably watched “Speed” too many times

  133. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 19, 2012 8:52 pm

    “Oh .. Islam … religion of peace, my arse … if they want to behead people – deport them … if they want to incite people to riot – deport them … review the immigrant screening process for all Muslims … seriously reconsider multiculturalism one of politics disasters – automatically creating division between cultures … why should my country have its culture challenged by people who want to live here … fkn stupid idea …”

    Well at least part of what you said is coherent or worth addressing to some extent and frighteningly, I agree in some ways…I am sorry that your life has been shaped in such a way that you feel the need to lash out for perceived ills or slights…What comes through in many of your ramblings, where we have interacted, is a very conflicted dogma; a struggling sort of illogical babble. However, it is interesting that after all the gibberish and energy spent “attacking” me, and not addressing the topic, you ultimately AGREE with many of the tenants of what I have posted on this topic… It was the whole reason why and I still maintain bringing up whether or not I am “prejudice” is nothing but a distraction; all this to simply get you to address the topic; not the poster. I think anybody who was bored enough to view the exchange will agree.

    I have found it is always the non sequitur with some here; much like trying to discuss the issues of the day with a developing mind or developed inebriated one. Anyway, thank you for that; it only took you two days to essentially, AGREE with me…LOL

  134. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 19, 2012 8:55 pm

    Tony,

    Now that is karma…I was listening to a radio host on the way into the clinic today. A caller called in to mention this and suggest that the USA start manufacturing flags made from THC laden material……Might chill these guys out a bit…

  135. September 19, 2012 9:04 pm

    And if they were born here…where exactly do you think that they should be deported to that would be willing to accept them? hmmm.

  136. el gordo permalink
    September 19, 2012 9:16 pm

    We could deport these old people for acting disgracefully, but to be honest I want to see a stoning.

    ‘Four women allegedly present during the female genital mutilation procedures on two young girls in Sydney have been charged.

    ‘Last week, the girls’ parents, a sheikh and a retired nurse were charged over the controversial procedure, also known as female circumcision.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/four-women-charged-with-genital-mutilation-20120919-266g7.html#ixzz26ufw0Fze

  137. James of North Melbourne permalink
    September 19, 2012 9:30 pm

    South Australia or Tasmania. I’d say Queensland but sometimes I like to go there for holidays.

  138. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 19, 2012 9:33 pm

    “And if they were born here…where exactly do you think that they should be deported to that would be willing to accept them? hmmm.”

    I AGREE IN SOME WAYS…Again, TB has some conflicted logic to work through but I digress…Kind of hard to deport a citizen…I guess perhaps the place to start is to stop cowering to lobby groups and be a bit more discriminating on who “you let in”…Why keep importing the culture from say, Afghanistan? Oh right, multiculturalism…got it..

  139. Noam not permalink
    September 19, 2012 9:40 pm

    Hey toiletetc, “your guy” Chomsky is on SBS right now. Or in half an hour in SA, probably. So is “my guy” Niall Ferguson.

  140. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    September 19, 2012 9:42 pm

    Niall Ferguson….Love his latest piece, just nailed it… Civilization: West and the Rest…Very fitting contribution to this thread…

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/civilization-west-and-rest/

  141. September 19, 2012 9:46 pm

    I have no problem with people ‘getting in’ on merit, no matter where they’re from.

    And yes, virtually impossible to deport a citizen if you have nowhere to send them. It’s no good trying to address the issue ‘after the fact’ as it were.

    You may find this quote relevant. I certainly do.

    “Muslim community reaction

    An historic meeting of 25 Muslim organisations was held Monday night – the first time so many Muslim leaders had united.

    The Muslim leaders will hold sermons in mosques and talks in schools this week to spread the message that violent protests are not the Islamic or Australian way.

    Lebanese Muslim Association president Samir Dandan urged those involved in the protest to hand themselves in to police.

    He said the violent protesters were young “freelancers” who moved between groups in the Muslim community.

    “It’s our shortcoming. We have not really engaged with these individuals,” he said.”

    I wouldn’t characterise that as an unreasonable reaction. I still believe that the nutjobs drown out the voices of reason.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/fear-rising-aussie-fury-could-cause-culture-clash/story-e6freuy9-1226476859237

  142. September 19, 2012 11:05 pm

    OK, Yony, so I just finished watching that (thanks for the headsup).

    I didn’t see anything that ran contrary to what I’ve long maintained; did you? I thought that both Niall Ferguson (who I was previously unfamiliar with) & Chomsky made pertinent, factual statements about the state of play.

    I often get mistaken for supporting ‘enemies’ purely because I don’t endorse every course of action taken by the West. Things are far more complicated than that.

  143. el gordo permalink
    September 20, 2012 6:10 am

    ‘France will close diplomatic sites in 20 Muslim countries over concern that a French satirical magazine’s publication of cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad may provoke a violent backlash.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/french-to-close-embassies-over-new-muhammad-cartoon-row-20120920-267ix.html#ixzz26wr3oGV8

  144. James of North Melbourne permalink
    September 20, 2012 7:40 am

    That’s good to know, Toilet. I think there is some genuine progress on cultural assimilation. It’s a long hard road. Meanwhile Pakistan have declared Friday a national holiday for peaceful protests. This will be interesting.

  145. September 20, 2012 10:03 am

    WTF is the point in having a “peaceful protest”.

    Besides, I don’t think teh muslims are capable of having a “peaceful protest.”

    They’re not content unless they’re burning flags, effigies or firing weapons into the air. A muslim protest isn’t a real protest unless their is an element of chaos and hysteria about.

    That 8 year old sheila who’s been calling for a “jihad” (FFS) in response to the video has called for a protest on Sunday at the State Library in Melbourne on Sunday.

    I might saunter along in my Ms muhammed drag queen outfit clutching a copy of “kiddy fiddlers weekly” just to rev things up a bit…

  146. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 20, 2012 10:35 am

    ”isn’t a real protest unless their is an element of chaos and hysteria about.

    1. I think you mean “there is…”

    2. Next thing they’ll form an alliance with the CFMEU (Construction Division), due to their common interest in having protests involving chaos and hysteria… and punching police horses.

  147. September 20, 2012 10:38 am

    1. I think you mean “there is…”

    Ssssshhhhh!

  148. Ol' Sancty permalink
    September 20, 2012 11:35 am

    They’re is???

  149. September 20, 2012 12:27 pm

    “I might saunter along in my Ms muhammed drag queen outfit clutching a copy of “kiddy fiddlers weekly” just to rev things up a bit…”

    Why would you do that? We have developed as society to the point where it is unacceptable to abuse free speech by using it to inflict psychological injury on people by reason of their race, gender, sexual orientation and the like. Clearly just as much damage can be done by your proposed outrageous behaviour.

    Heaven knows there are enough daily provocations heaped on muslims in this country. Why they are even expected to swim in the same public baths as Jews. Yet they generally ignore these barbs and rub along with the rest of us while extremists like you think of ever more shamefully gratuitous ways to provoke them and then, when they finally react the media scrum whips up a frenzy of hatred and all the spiteful trolls come out.

  150. TB Queensland permalink
    September 20, 2012 12:38 pm

    Is it me, or do a couple of posters here have a limited sense of humour … and need a lot of explanation to get through the day?

    Again, TB has some conflicted logic to work through but I digress

    And you wonder why I take the piss … or perhaps you don’t realise it? :shock:

    … this site’s becoming becoming way too serious for itself …

  151. Ol' Sancty permalink
    September 20, 2012 1:01 pm

    That’s it!! Minipiglo is Tom of Melbourne. The sharing of the baths with Jews was a step too far.

  152. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 20, 2012 1:35 pm

    1. TB, let me assure you, I’ve not posted anything serious since Rudd became Prime Minister… and I wasn’t aware that anyone else had either.

    2. Minipiglo has nothing to do with me. I think they’re/their/there looking for some humorous, vibrant and intelligent exchanges. There’s/theirs/they’re’s not much of that around.

  153. Ol' Sancty permalink
    September 20, 2012 1:39 pm

    Their their……didn’t mean to offend!!!

    And here here to the point re- humerous exchanges.

  154. Ol' Sancty permalink
    September 20, 2012 1:45 pm

    I think that correct use of homophones and heterographs should hereinafter be banned….at least until the Bloods take the flag. And no I don’t know how a homophone and a heterograph can mean the same thing, or at least be classes in the same division. But they can. I’ve written to David Marr to find out.

  155. TB Queensland permalink
    September 20, 2012 2:41 pm

    :shock:

  156. September 21, 2012 3:31 am

    Dunny, TB, Armchair and me have all said we are not followers of the sky-fairies. While the garmie wearing follower of Joseph Smith, who recently escaped from the compound. doesn`t have the faith and strength to declare his devotion. Instead, Arizona Arse Clowns prefer to peddle us-centric twaddle in a gish galloping fashion. Spouting the usual americanisms of corporatology from the right-wing angle, but claims `independent`. .. Who`da guessed.?

  157. September 22, 2012 2:05 am

    TV NEWS .. An amish Leader has been found guilty of a hate crime. The Leader of a bunch of amish thugs, attacked another bunch of amish, asauting them and then clipping off the victims beards and long hair. Muhammad is not alone.

  158. Evil Walrus permalink
    March 20, 2013 10:51 pm

    So the Syrian pro Assad forces are claiming they have been attacked with Chemical Weapons by the Rebels.

    “Constructing an Excuse” ?

    There goes the Neighbourhood

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