Skip to content
Advertisements

Rostrum: Tiny Exercises in Mundane Living Edition.

August 10, 2012

Hello,

And good afternoon.   Now I know that over the years I have garnered a well-earned reputation as a successful high-flying corporate executive international managing director, chairman, CEO and Board of Directors of The Global Trash Consortium of Multimedia and Online Enterprises Pty Limited.

However it may surprise you to know, that aside from attending shareholder meetings and cruising the streets in my stretch limo like that sultry Robert Pattinson guy, I occasionally have a go at doing some of the normal day to day activities that ordinary people do.  Yes, people just like you!

I know, I can’t believe it either!

Take today for example.  Faced with a hectic schedule of back-to-back meetings with some visiting Japanese investors I just thought “fuck it” and threw caution to the wind and decided to take the day off.

Besides, all Japanese businessmen want to do is go to a “gentlemen’s club,” have a boozy lunch, and then get laid at a five star hotel.  (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)   Fortunately, Kevin was available to accompany them on short notice.

Imagine the surprise, when I arrived home early at Trash Mansion and announced to the staff “today I will sort my sock drawer.”

And it didn’t stop there!  I ironed some shirts and learned how to use the dishwasher!

Stay tuned for next week’s episode when we discover how to mow the lawn and go shoplifting!

 

 

 

 

Advertisements
372 Comments leave one →
  1. JAWS permalink
    August 10, 2012 5:56 pm

    “today I will sort my sock drawer.”

    There truly is only one way to do that.

    Throw out all your socks (every single one of them) and buy 10 identical pairs of white and 10 identical pairs of black.

    You’ll never have an odd sock again

  2. August 10, 2012 6:03 pm

    Funny you should mention that Jaws.

    Every year I buy twenty pairs of black socks at the Myer stocktake sale and chuck out all my old socks. It’s become an annual ritual…

    (Sorry when I say “I buy” what I mean of course, is that one of my lowly servants is sent out to buy…)

  3. August 10, 2012 6:05 pm

    “10 identical pairs of white ”

    WTF…??!!

    WTF wears white socks….???

  4. JAWS permalink
    August 10, 2012 6:09 pm

    Whats wrong with white ?

  5. August 10, 2012 6:12 pm

    Sorry, I forgot, you’re “an accountant”….

  6. TB Queensland permalink
    August 10, 2012 6:34 pm

    “today I will sort my sock drawer.”

    I confess I’ve just started my second Wild Turkey and downed half a bottle of Merlot (noice 2008 Millstone) with my pork pie for lunch … but … when I read the sentence above I always see, “today I will sort out my cock drawer” … most odd!

    Rivers are good for socks a buck each … and I do what, Wally, does 10 of black/blue and 10 white … you obviously don’t stay fit, sreb … you wear white socks wif yer sneakers! (Or if your gay!)

  7. August 10, 2012 8:41 pm

    What are these things called “sneakers…..?”

    It must be some sort of Queensland thing……

  8. Sok Draw permalink
    August 10, 2012 8:54 pm

    Anyone who runs and is prone to blisters, here’s your answer. They’re not cheap, and I don’t think Rivers or Lowes carry them 😉 but they work! (I get them from Athlete’s foot.)

    http://www.thorlo.com/running-socks.php

  9. el gordo permalink
    August 10, 2012 9:03 pm

    ‘And it didn’t stop there! I ironed some shirts and learned how to use the dishwasher!’

    The joy of domestic duties.

  10. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 11, 2012 3:00 am

    AUSTRALIA’S performance at the London Olympics, its worst result in 20 years, has cost taxpayers $10.3 million for each medal won.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/what-price-medals-20120810-23zua.html#ixzz23ABb7BG7

    i can’t remember another olympics where the focus was on the cost of the medals and training ahletes, what is the problem? do aussies hate to put their hands in their pocket for anything these days? anyone would think the nation was broke. What is wrong with people?

  11. el gordo permalink
    August 11, 2012 7:11 am

    ‘What is wrong with people?’

    It’s all very well if you have a steady income from a good paying job, so much money spent in pursuit of sporting excellence is a luxury we cannot afford.

  12. el gordo permalink
    August 11, 2012 7:42 am

    ”I think there’s so much guilt, which I think is very healthy. White man’s guilt kind of permeates everything……”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/sapphire-in-the-rough-gets-away-from-it-crowd-20120807-23sbl.html#ixzz23BKxwYxo

  13. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 11, 2012 1:29 pm

    It’s all very well if you have a steady income from a good paying job, so much money spent in pursuit of sporting excellence is a luxury we cannot afford.

    rubbish, we are a wealthy nation full of people spending up big on all kinds of selfish luxuries, cosmetic procedures and big noting themselves, there’s plenty for the athletes. Some people can’t bear any of their money to go to the government for any of the services or programs that they utilise. It’s the ‘tea party syndrome’ that has infected the gullible via liberal party propaganda. I haven’t noticed many of these people driving in their hand made vehicles, on the private roads that they built themselves, or shitting in their outside chemical toilets so they don’t access community sewerage or programs etc 🙂

  14. TB Queensland permalink
    August 11, 2012 3:36 pm

    KL,

    … maybe the billions spent on our “elite” athletes (who either make twits of themselves off-firld or become multi millionaires or both) could be better spent on government services ie health and aged care, public education …

    I lost interest in and support for the Olympics when they lost their “amateur” status. Ever since then it’s been a downhill slide of corruption, monopolies and Robber Baron mentality that would have been enough to make even, Adolf Hitler, start a world war … 🙄

  15. TB Queensland permalink
    August 11, 2012 3:56 pm

    Just arrived in my email inbox …

    * Last night I reached for my liquid Viagra and accidentally
    swigged from a bottle of Liquid Paper.

    I woke up this morning with a huge correction.

    * My girlfriend said she was leaving me due to my obsession
    with the 60’s group The Monkees.

    I thought she was joking …….. And then I saw her face……

    * My budgie broke his leg today so I made him a little splint
    out of a couple of Beehive matches.

    His little face lit up when he tried to walk…unfortunately,

    I had forgotten to remove the sandpaper from the bottom of his cage.

    * I got sacked last night from the Salvation Army soup
    kitchen, the ungrateful bastards. All I said was, ‘Hurry up for Christ’s
    sake ………. Some of us have got homes to go to!’

    * Women should be like golf caddies, either holding your balls
    or getting your bloody tee ready!

    * Got myself a new Jack Russell puppy, he’s mainly black and
    brown with a small white patch, so I’ve named him England…

  16. August 11, 2012 4:05 pm

    Some of those are actually quite funny TB… 🙂

  17. August 11, 2012 5:01 pm

    Not at all concerned by having my tax dollars spent for the greater good; just dubious that glory seeking, sooky, flag-draped olympic athletes qualify as ‘greater good’ for anyone but themselves & the tepid flagsturbators.

  18. el gordo permalink
    August 11, 2012 5:08 pm

    Those jokes are amusing TB and I agree with you on the olympic farce, which began when ‘they lost their “amateur” status.’

  19. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 11, 2012 5:16 pm

    If you’re a hawthorn supporter you’re without your high profile CHF for the rest of this year and a good part of next.

  20. August 11, 2012 6:32 pm

    Who, snacty?

    Please tell me that they’re still gonna pulverise Portscum into the lowest depths of the abyss tomorrow!

    Also, please tell me it’s not Roughead[sic], who’s in my Supercoach team…and too many of the other cnuts are already out this week .

  21. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 11, 2012 6:49 pm

    Rational football people hope-
    • Swans win.
    • Tigers work up some phlegm for some feedback to their coach for tomorrow’s game.
    • Terry Wallace finishes up coaching Port.
    ————————
    More red and a meal awaits!

  22. August 11, 2012 7:01 pm

    Port’s next coach should definitely be what’shername from Adelaide Thunderbirds…or maybe Aussie Joe Bugner.

  23. August 11, 2012 7:02 pm

    Mixed emotions about the Swans V Collingwood.

    Crows may pinch top before season’s end if Pies win…but noone really wants to see them win; me included.

    Go Handbagz!!!

  24. August 11, 2012 7:03 pm

    fuck it is Roughead. Why out for so long? you smelly AFL insider, you.

  25. t42 permalink
    August 11, 2012 7:30 pm

    I agree with armchair opinionator! If you people don’t like your taxes being spent on gold medals you must be teabagging wingnuts who hate roads and sewerage.

  26. August 11, 2012 7:39 pm

    I’m no wingtard, but I’d really hate even the smallest scattering of sewerage on my road…especially in my driveway, but most of all on my doormat.

  27. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 11, 2012 11:18 pm

    Not Roughead. And not injured by the way. Demetriou considered missing the olympics closing ceremony…. For a minute.

  28. el gordo permalink
    August 12, 2012 7:20 am

    As I said kitty, we should stop giving the australian white trash money.

  29. el gordo permalink
    August 12, 2012 7:45 am

    A HECs on our athletes.

    ‘Professor Bloomfield praised Australia’s Olympians but indicated the allocation of resources may have moved too far towards the pursuit of elite success. He supported high government investment as a preventative health measure but said it would most likely invest more in sport if it knew it would recoup some of the expense from financially successful athletes.

    ”They wouldn’t pay it back until they earned enough money,” he said. ”So, if you don’t make anything, you don’t pay anything back.

    ”But you’ve got to remember these are public funds. There are some tennis players, for instance, who went through sports high schools, state academies, the Australian Institute of Sport – all publicly funded – and are now earning a lot of money. They should be paying something back.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/olympics/news-london-2012/a-hecs-on-our-athletes-20120811-241mo.html#ixzz23HCLb5IA

  30. public toilet permalink
    August 12, 2012 8:47 am

    Franklin!

    What’d he do?

    Whatever it is, the media will be all over it. I do recall that he was supposed to have had a car accident (somewhere in shitty Melbourne) recently…as in, days ago.

    You’re not pulling my leg are you Walter Mitty snacty?

  31. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 12, 2012 9:08 am

    I didn’t say him….

    Been bubbling under the surface for a long time. B sample results can take some time I hear.

    Will be an interesting news week. Whispers are that 4 Corners are running with the Gillard Wilson story.

  32. August 12, 2012 9:44 am

    Check this out…. *big guffaw*

    “A talking snake. Enough said.”

    http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions

    Added to our esteemed blog roll!

  33. August 12, 2012 9:49 am

    Genesis6:19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you.

    Answers In Genesis posits that Noah gathered “kinds” of animals and not all “species,” an estimated 16,000 pairs, which raises a few animal-related questions:

    How, exactly, did eight extreme senior citizens load, manage and care for 32,000 animals?

    What about specialized diets (bamboo for the giant panda, meat for the carnivores, fresh vegetation for the herbivores)?

    Who cleaned each stall and shoveled the tons of daily excrement through the huge ark’s single window?

    How did they separate the predator and prey animals? Did the lion lay with the lamb?

    How do you explain the acquisition and loading of animals not indigenous to the Middle East (many separated by oceans), like the polar bear, the sloth, the crocodile, the fruit bat, the anaconda, etc? And how did the penguins and other cold-climate creatures survive in the blistering desert heat?

    Wouldn’t freshwater rains from the sky have made the saltwater deadly to ocean marine life? And wouldn’t saltwater have proven equally toxic to all freshwater fish? If water boiled up from beneath the earth’s crust, wouldn’t water temperature changes in the delicate ecosystem have also had a deadly effect?

    Dinosaurs on the ark. Did they exit the boat and THEN get hit by a comet?

    *chuckle*

  34. TB Queensland permalink
    August 12, 2012 9:59 am

    TheThinkingAtheist seems to be doing well with advertising and support too, sreb!

    … maybe you should consider changing tack from “political” to “religious” …

    … the lines would be less blurred than now, methinks … and it would provide an opportunity for renaming your blog … 🙂

  35. August 12, 2012 10:15 am

    Good thinking TB…. 🙂

  36. public toilet permalink
    August 12, 2012 10:47 am

    Yeah, let’s ridicule religion!

  37. TB Queensland permalink
    August 12, 2012 11:08 am

    Yeah, let’s ridicule religion!

    I was thinking more about supporting the concept of organised religion as a platform for people to live deep and meaningful lives at the expense of others … it’s worked for centuries …

    … so many believers simply cannot be wrong …

    )… Rebbitology was no accident – if I recall my theology lessons …(

  38. public toilet permalink
    August 12, 2012 11:40 am

    So many believers can most certainly be wrong.

  39. TB Queensland permalink
    August 12, 2012 1:50 pm

    There would be a few on this blog would disagree with, methinks … 😉

  40. el gordo permalink
    August 12, 2012 1:54 pm

    ‘So many believers can most certainly be wrong.’

    Yep, on a whole range of issues and not just religion.

  41. public toilet permalink
    August 12, 2012 2:19 pm

    They’d disagree, TB, but they’d still be wrong.

  42. August 12, 2012 3:35 pm

    Will Rebbitology rise again once followers increase their theaten levels, similar to levels displayed by Queen TB?

  43. TB Queensland permalink
    August 12, 2012 4:09 pm

    Wot, 307, said … 😯

    I think … 😕

  44. TB Queensland permalink
    August 12, 2012 4:14 pm

    This bloke should get on a boat to Oz and join our Limpdick Robber Barons running the show … h’ed fit in really well I reckon … gold medal whinger … 😆

    GREAT Britain has been accused of manipulating the London Olympics in a bid to improve its medal tally.
    Russian sports minister Vitaly Mutko launched the extraordinary attack on the Games host as his country faced the prospect of recording its worst finish at an Olympics since 1952.

    “The Brits are just as [bad] as [the Chinese] in Beijing,” Mutko was reported as telling Russian media.

    “Here in London everyone wants the British to win. They have a very strong political support.”

    Mutko cited Russia’s poor showing in boxing events it was expected to win as evidence political clout was influencing certain sports.

    Light-flyweight boxer David Ayrapetyan, flyweight fighter Misha Aloian and welterweight wonder Andrei Zamkovoy all lost their respective semi-final bouts despite entering the Games as strong gold medal contenders.

  45. el gordo permalink
    August 13, 2012 8:54 am

    Holy moly, Gillard is about to back down…I think.

    ‘SENIOR Labor figures are exploring a dramatic shift on asylum-seeker policy to reopen the Nauru processing centre as part of a two-stage proposal that could trigger the government’s Malaysia Solution if the first step does not stop boat arrivals.

    ‘The plan is being considered as a rapid response to a border protection review due today from former Australian Defence Force chief Angus Houston, heightening pressure on both major parties to negotiate a compromise as parliament resumes after the winter break.

    ‘As three asylum-seeker boats arrived over the weekend, Immigration Minister Chris Bowen left room to strike a deal with Coalition migration spokesman Scott Morrison, who said he was willing to consider the proposals in the Houston report. The report will be handed to the government early this morning ahead of meetings of cabinet and caucus.’

    Troy Bramston and Brendan Nicholson in the Oz

  46. August 13, 2012 9:51 am

    For Ol Stanky…

    6. Rumours
    Heard the one about the big-name player who’s out injured? Social media and the text messaging highway think they have solved Watergate, or are trying to create Watergate. The facts are this: Said player has a leg injury. The AFL knows nothing about said player doing anything wrong in his social life. And if he has, do you really think the AFL knows and has covered up any wrongdoing to protect its image? Three strikes is three strikes and it would be made public.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/axed-port-adelaide-coach-matthew-primus-must-take-some-of-the-blame/story-e6freck3-1226448734091

  47. August 13, 2012 9:55 am

    Mark Robinson thinks you’ve been plying the rumour mill, snacty.

    Above can be found towards the bottom of the column in the link. Don’t be fooled by the title of the link, it’s actually Robinson’s column.

    I think Robinson is a self important, name dropping tosser, btw. He gets pissy because it’s not him breaking the inside info. Stupid victorian that he is.

  48. August 13, 2012 10:02 am

    Toilet. I think Robbo’s wrong.

  49. August 13, 2012 10:20 am

    I think Robbo’s a moron. Victoria-centric cockhandler.

  50. August 13, 2012 10:20 am

    Him, not you, if that was unclear. 😉

  51. August 13, 2012 10:32 am

    Yes, noted the full stop was not a comma.

  52. August 13, 2012 11:01 am

    Honestly. The language in this place leaves a lot to be desired. 🙄

  53. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 11:52 am

    Yeah, fancy writing, comma! 😯

  54. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 11:58 am

    Today should be interesting, with the release of the brand new range of grubby excuses for demonising asylum seekers report on asylum seeker policy.

    We will have a new, narrow argument about-
    • Nauru = BAD, Malaysia = NICE & GOOD
    • Why it is now nice to send desperate people off shore, but it was really, really nasty a few years ago.
    • Some narrow partisan crap that tries to split hairs on policy
    • A ”legal expert” or 2 pontificating about the likely High Court challenge, or something
    • Lots of “I’m right and you’re wrong, WRONG WRONG!

    It should make for some interesting contortions, and really it’s much more entertaining than the ribbon twirling variety at the Olympics.

  55. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 11:59 am

    Today should be interesting, with the release of the brand new range of grubby excuses for demonising asylum seekers report on asylum seeker policy.

    We will have a new, narrow argument about-
    • Nauru = BAD, Malaysia = NICE & GOOD
    • Why it is now nice to send desperate people off shore, but it was really, really nasty a few years ago.
    • Some narrow partisan crap that tries to split hairs on policy
    • A ”legal expert” or 2 pontificating about the likely High Court challenge, or something
    • Lots of “I’m right and you’re wrong, WRONG WRONG!

    It should make for some interesting contortions, and really it’s much more entertaining than the ribbon twirling variety at the Olympics.

  56. el gordo permalink
    August 13, 2012 12:01 pm

    Thank the gods the winter break is over, let’s get down to some realpoliticking.

  57. August 13, 2012 1:03 pm

    No doubt over in QandaLand tonight, they will wallow once again in boat-people rhetoric. Tom.

    There is also too much showy sock wealth on this thread.

  58. el gordo permalink
    August 13, 2012 1:13 pm

    ‘showy sock wealth’

    Now that’s a very broad brush.

  59. August 13, 2012 1:18 pm

    Probably both referring to me, I guess.

    It’s never been a secret that public toilet is me posting from somewhere other than home. Hardly a sock puppet, I’d have thought.

    I daresay reb was censuring my language, too, which is fine because it’s his place & his prerogative; so I take that seriously & will refrain from using the word which I think he is alluding to.

    There were no sock puppets on this thread though, at a glance.

  60. August 13, 2012 1:21 pm

    …or, it’s entirely possible that I just wildly misinterpreted half of that & it was actually in reference to foot coverings, which are kinda topical to the thread. 😯

  61. el gordo permalink
    August 13, 2012 1:27 pm

    LOL toilet, have a nice day.

  62. Pe(a)king permalink
    August 13, 2012 1:35 pm

    ‘It may be hard to believe, but it’s been a full four years since China hosted the Olympics. At the time, Beijing 2008 appeared to herald China’s return, after a 500 year hiatus, to great power status. Commentators were falling over themselves to pronounce the inevitability of China’s rise and its implications for American influence in Asia.

    ‘But is it possible we will look back on those Olympic Games as the peak of Chinese power, rather than the beginning of its rise?’

    http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/08/11/peak-oil-how-about-peak-china/

  63. August 13, 2012 1:46 pm

    How about screw american interest?

  64. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 1:56 pm

    I agree with Tony, Thorlo are best for socks.

  65. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 2:41 pm

    ToM, I much preferred you first post on boat folk … Today should be interesting, with the release of the

    Made much more sense than the second post …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    There is also too much showy sock wealth on this thread.

    Tru dat! Rivers is the go … init! 🙂

  66. JAWS permalink
    August 13, 2012 4:13 pm

    Gee the Left Wing blogs are very quiet on the Boatpeople Report today.

    Are they still trying to get their little brains around how they can possibly justify Nauru ??

  67. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 4:38 pm

    It is rather embarrassing for the ALP barrackers. How many backflips, u-turns are possible?

    • Condemn Howard for demonising asylum seekers, but ignore “another boat another policy failure”
    • Say “hooray” for East Timor Solution, then argue that it really was never seriously proposed
    • Argue that off shore processing is inhumane, but then support the “Malaysian Solution”
    • Condemn Nauru, but suggest that Malaysia is a better policy
    • Support an “expert panel” to recommend a solution (to exactly what problem?), which then recommends in favour of Nauru, and says Malaysia isn’t ready.

    It’s best that ALP barrackers simply give up in expressing an opinion on the subject of asylum seekers.

    Their credibility = ZERO

  68. August 13, 2012 4:52 pm

    Somehow, some way, you will see that they’ll neatly accomodate this new addition to the cummulative erosion of their legitimacy without so much as missing a beat.
    They’re very good at convincing themselves that black is white when the circumstances demand it to be so.

    Already, the blame would have been mentally filed away as belonging to the Abbott Satan.

  69. August 13, 2012 4:53 pm

    “..Probably both referring to me, I guess…“ ROFL

    Sorry Reb, I seem to have “clogged-up“ your `Dunny`.
    Better call a plumber!

  70. August 13, 2012 4:55 pm

    It’s ok 730 reportland….

    I’m not really sure what it is that “you lot” are all talking about anyway…..

  71. JAWS permalink
    August 13, 2012 5:40 pm

    Whatever way you look at it after all these years, after all these months of arguing the point it has been Gillard’s arrogance that has caused the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of men, women and children.

    She and her Green friends have willingly bathed in the warm blood of innocents just so they could play politics.

    Abbott might not be a great alternative but Gillard is just plain EVIL

  72. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 6:20 pm

    Their credibility = ZERO

    … and so is the Opposition’s … you can’t criticise one without the other …

    Abbott might not be a great alternative but Gillard is just plain EVIL

    No, Wally, that sentence is EVIL …

    …. no way would I believe that any politician is responsible for the deaths of asylum seekers on boats … travelling by sea is deadly … all the time …

    … I spent six weeks in a 20,000 ton ship, emigrating here, with 12 men/boys to a cabin and eight women/girls to a cabin … my mother and sister were on C deck – we were on E deck (under the waterline) … (the ship was seriously overloaded) …

    … after the “lifeboat drill” in Southampton … my old man – ex WWII Royal Navy – said to me – “if anything happens, you look after your Mum and I’ll look after your sister” … I was twelve at the time …

    … I refused to go below on the first night through the Bay of Biscay with waves as high as 15 metres … I slept on deck by myself in a deck chair … (last year the B of B was like a mill pond, as was The English Channel …

    …. I saw a frieghter and tanker collision in the MIDDLE of the Indian Ocean … dead calm morning and three of the crew of the tanker seriously injured and brought aboard our ship for medical attention …

    …. I experienced the edge of a cyclone also in the Indian Ocean, that scared the shit out of the Italian crew …

    Politician’s don’t drown or injure people the sea does …

  73. August 13, 2012 6:54 pm

    Hey TB, don`t you think politicians are `evil` for creating the refugee problem, by starting un-needed wars? Blindly following the Yanks into disaster after disaster, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghan?

    Obama got bin-Laden with a mere few dozen troops in Abbottabad raid.

  74. el gordo permalink
    August 13, 2012 7:14 pm

    … ‘don`t you think politicians are `evil` for creating the refugee problem, by starting un-needed wars?’

    TB will have something to say, but I’ll contribute my two bobs worth.

    Looking at the big picture these little wars may serve a purpose (even though horrendous for the combatants) they go a long way in reducing world tension.

    Asylum seekers everywhere are primarily economic refugees and there are enormous numbers of people desiring to reinvent themselves. Australia should increase their migrant intake no matter what Andrew Bolt says.

  75. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 7:17 pm

    Yes, 307, I do … having personally been affected by two wars (one obviously before your time) … but does that mean that we as people must still follow blindly arshole politics in the aftermath (that you rightly point out) … if you think that politicians are evil starting wars … then … does that mean that being “evil” as a nation is justifiable … ?

    I can remember the “boat people” from Vietnam being “accepted” as refugees … but we don’t do that from the latest “conflicts” … Australians have become … Americanised* …

    (a selfishly – ME! culture) When was New Orleans hit by a cyclone?

    When I was growing up we were a hybrid of Pommie and Yankee culture … then we lost our way …

  76. August 13, 2012 7:20 pm

    None of it is as simple as all that.

    JAWS’ comment was pure hyperbole.

    I don’t believe that any of our politicians want people to die or are directly responsible for a human problem that noone has the answer to.

    It rankles that the issue is used as a political pushbutton.

    None of them come out of it untarnished, but ‘evil’ is a stretch.

  77. August 13, 2012 7:23 pm

    “these little wars may serve a purpose“ Le Gordo?

    Only “purpose“ is to enrich Yank weapons manufacturers with Govt contracts, after usa military has “used-up“ current weapons.
    Applies to all four wars I listed above.

  78. August 13, 2012 7:32 pm

    Yeah, calling those wars ‘little’ is an easy thing to do from a safe distance too.

    I’m not so sure that the occupied & invaded would see them as ‘little’.

  79. August 13, 2012 7:56 pm

    Hey Folks, … EVIL .. was already in use in the thread.
    Your word, not mine.
    ++++++++++
    @Queen TB
    … Australians have become … Americanised …
    Couldn`t agree more.
    1. Bigger problem, the Aussie embedded-media
    have very much become `Foxified`, following Rupert trash network
    with an extreme, fact-free, culture warrior attitude.
    2. Agree. Vietnam refugees treated properly.
    Now its different + wrong.
    ++++++++++
    @Toilet “used as a political pushbutton“
    Agree, + wrong to do so.
    ++++++++++ <<< toilet-barrier
    @both with a dis-honest political duopoly + dis-honest media
    I suspect it is a bit of a long reach to say `nation` is `evil` when
    we only get to vote once per 3 years and, the public make their
    decision based on bad and/or poor mis/dis/ information

  80. el gordo permalink
    August 13, 2012 8:51 pm

    ‘New figures reveal one Australian dies on Bali every nine days, while hundreds more need consular help after experiencing problems.

    ‘Consular officials say alcohol and drugs fuel many of the accidents, while nightclub fights are among the biggest causes of trouble for thousands of Aussies who fly to the tropical island every year.’

    Peter Mickelburough in the Daily Telegraph

    Ugly Australians have no place in Bali.

  81. August 13, 2012 9:30 pm

    ” the public make their
    decision based on bad and/or poor mis/dis/ information”

    I think vast swathes of the population don’t think much about their decision at all. Possibly until a week, or days, prior to an election…& even then only on a relatively superficial level.
    I imagine that’s why we get what we get. A non-choice between two major players who basically represent the status quo, up to a point; both playing to their crowd after a particular fashion, but essentially the same.

    Having said that, as bogus as the duopoly is, it’s generally stable & does tend to keep the real fringe crackpots from getting too much leverage.
    Political perfection is unachievable. The best that can be hoped for is some kind of uneasy, moderate balance with cyclical governmental refreshment when they get too arrogant & start to assume that they’re irreplaceable.

    We should aspire to the opposite of FoxtardNews.

  82. Tony Mundane permalink
    August 13, 2012 9:51 pm

    I have to agree that our system is relatively stable. It’s because we have the unions versus business tensions; Liberal vs Labor; News Ltd vs Fairfax/ABC; Crikey vs Bolt; Leftoids vs Wingnuts.

    It’s the left-yin restraining the right-yang and vice versa that smooths the otherwise turbulant waters. That’s why most of us can cope when those we vote for don’t gain office. Extremists and radicals don’t get to run the show.

    That’s also probably why I’m over arguing over or worrying about politics. I’m jaded and don’t care any more.

    Oh, yeah: Fuck youse all! 😯

  83. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 7:23 am

    Yeah, I’m not too interested in arguing about the politics either…definitely uninterested in splitting hairs over he said this or she said that.

    As we wallow in the political mire of the now, each taking sides to defend positions, there is a huge lack of vision beyond the political cycle.

    Australia could do with a charismatic leader, above party political infighting, who has a clear vision of where he thinks its all heading….and the audacity to tell us the most likely options.

  84. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 7:56 am

    Egypt has a charismatic leader prepared to overturn the military and protect the revolutionary ideals.

    ”We had been chanting, ‘Down, down with military rule,”’ said Shady el-Ghazaly Harb, a liberal political activist. ”Today it came true.”

    ‘In a fiery speech on Sunday, Mr Mursi said his decisions were not meant to ”embarrass” the military and that he was acting in ”the best interests” of Egypt.

    ”Today, this nation returns – this people returns – with its blessed revolution,” he said. ”Support me strongly, so we can move to a better future.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/presidents-bold-gambit-stuns-generals-20120813-244yv.html#ixzz23Svdhu8C

  85. August 14, 2012 8:33 am

    “Australia could do with a charismatic leader, above party political infighting, who has a clear vision of where he thinks its all heading….and the audacity to tell us the most likely options.”

    One word.

    TALCUM!

  86. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 9:01 am

    Talcum is more labor right faction…so it has promise.

  87. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:12 am

    Oh, yeah: Fuck youse all!

    Y’know, ToSY, I felt the same last night! 😉

    Amazing what a good nights sleep can do … 😯

    TALCUM!

    Hear, hear …

  88. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:27 am

    “Australia could do with a charismatic leader, above party political infighting, who has a clear vision of where he thinks its all heading…”

    Eddie Maguire………..!

  89. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:28 am

    LOL

  90. August 14, 2012 10:32 am

    “Australia could do with a charismatic leader, above party political infighting, who has a clear vision of where he thinks its all heading…”

    WAYNE SWAN!

  91. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:35 am

    Christopher Pyne !

  92. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:36 am

    Kevin Andrews ..!

  93. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:36 am

    Phillip Ruddock…!

  94. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:37 am

    Lets be Bipartisan about it………..

    Rob Oakeshot…!

  95. August 14, 2012 10:47 am

    Angry Anderson …!

  96. August 14, 2012 10:55 am

    Bronwyn Bishop!

  97. August 14, 2012 11:01 am

    Julia!…errr

  98. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 11:43 am

    guffaw

  99. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:48 pm

    The trouble with that “Award” is the more times you win it the less “Liveable” you will become.

    Frankly you guys can have it.

  100. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:56 pm

    It now appears we actually won the Olympics…oi oi

    ‘Using the formula, medals won multiplied by athletes in your team divided by home count population (MAP), here are the top four:’

    Australia 632
    Great Britain 565
    Hungary 268
    Russia 250
    Team USA scored a measly 175, and China only 23.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/how-australia-topped-the-medal-tally-20120814-245vf.html#ixzz23UsmfugZ

  101. August 14, 2012 9:08 pm

    “..as bogus as the duopoly is, it’s generally stable..“ @Dunny

    Yeah sure, but flip-side of same coin is,
    things that should be moving faster, move at speed of treacle.

    1. Mr-Rabbits vision-less NBN attitude,
    (Let`s use carrier pigeons)

    2. Gay Marriage, Voluntary Euthanasia.
    Both Highly supported by population, politicians anti.
    (so-called democracy huh?)

    3. Compulsory voting? Another backward policy.
    Prediction, if discussed/polled, would be listed with GayM + VE

    4. Boat-people. We just went back to 2006 today.

  102. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:07 pm

    1. NBN is a huge waste of money, it is the most expensive in the world by a factor of 4 or 5, and it won’t be delivered anywhere near the budgeted cost, or on time.

    The ALP doesn’t deserve any kudos for this likely white elephant.

    2. I’m not sure about euthanasia. My concern is related to impatient family members waiting to get their hands on an inheritance, and placing emotional pressure on the ailing to hurry off the planet.

    3. I don’t mind compulsory voting as without being required to attend the ballot box, I probably wouldn’t bother to turn up and write – “A POX ON BOTH OF YOU” on the ballot paper.

    4. Ditto

  103. August 14, 2012 10:42 pm

    @Tom-of-Melb, on `items` 1 and 2 you have missed my point and, merely regurgitated the duopoly `scare the public`shit-less` to avoid having `proper` discussion on the topics.

  104. August 14, 2012 10:49 pm

    @Tom-of-Melb, on `item`3 I can`t work out if your being `ironic`, as you seem to explain the point I was trying to make.

  105. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 12:46 am

    Yeah sure, but flip-side of same coin is,
    things that should be moving faster, move at speed of treacle.

    I think that’s the thing, how is it that our politicians are so out of step with public opinion? It is quite deliberate, they know what we want and are determined not to deliver, they give most attention to the lobbyists and totally ignore the wishes of the public on issues eg pokies reform and gay marriage. They are so in hock to big business that they refuse to do what is demanded by the community that they supposedly represent.

    Amazingly, they can move with the speed of light and bipartisanship when it comes to protecting taxpayer funding for the lobby groups that they govern for eg school chaplains. Where was the public debate on that?

  106. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:04 am

    Looks like it might be about time to pile back into some Oil exposure via Woodside Petroleum and Oil Search…………

    From The Australian today

    “Silence rules as Israel readies to strike
    · by: ALUF BENN

    · From: The Australian
    · August 15, 2012 12:00AM

    ISRAEL’S Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defence Minister Ehud Barak are threatening to attack Iran, and the world does not seem concerned.

    Israel warns that its face is turned in the direction of a war that will bump up the price of oil and cause many deaths and much damage, and the world does nothing to prevent the tragedy. No emergency meetings of the UN Security Council, no dramatic diplomatic delegations, no live coverage on CNN and Al Jazeera. There aren’t even any sharp fluctuations in the price of oil and gas. Or in Israel’s credit rating. The scene is quiet. Even Iranian counter-threats to hit Israel don’t seem to worry anybody.

    What’s happening here? All the signs show that the “international community”, meaning the Western powers and the US in the lead, seem to have reconciled themselves with Israel’s talk of a military strike and now they are pushing Netanyahu to stand by his rhetoric and send his bombers to their targets in Iran. In general terms, the market has already accounted for the Israeli strike in its assessment of the risk of the undertaking, and it is now waiting for the expectation to be realised.

    The international community created the ideological grounds for an Israeli operation against Iran.

    It has ceased to bother Netanyahu about issues related to the occupation, the settlements and the Palestinian state, which has made it possible for Netanyahu to focus on preparing the Israel Defence Forces and Israeli public opinion for a war with Iran.
    The “nuclear talks” between the powers and Iran were the epitome of diplomatic impotence. Economic sanctions on Iran did not stop the nuclear project, and maybe even caused its acceleration, but they are likely to limit Iran in a long-term war against Israel.

    US President Barack Obama is considered a sharp opponent to the idea of an Israeli strike against Iran. But his actions say the opposite. Obama once again is leading from behind, as he did in Libya and Syria.

    This is his doctrine: instead of complicating the US with a new Middle East war, he is outsourcing the fighting to an external agent. In Libya, it was the French, the British and the anti-Gaddafi rebels. In Syria, it is the Free Syrian Army. In Iran, it is the IDF.
    If Israel does strike, the planes and the arms will be made in the US. The Home Front Command will receive early warnings of missile landings from the American radar in the Negev, in southern Israel. The financial aid and state support for the day after the strike will probably also come from Washington.

    The public position of the US regime is vague. Officials talk about the “unity of the international community”, “tough sanctions” and say that they will use all available options to stop Iran developing nuclear weapons (as Secretary of Defence Leon Panetta did on his recent visit to Israel). There is no warning here against an Israeli strike. No one is saying, “If you strike, you will put Israel-US relations at risk, and you will remain isolated.”

    Obama was much more aggressive when he asked Netanyahu to freeze settlement construction – something that has no effect whatsoever on the wellbeing of Americans. And now, when regional stability and the fate of the world economy are at stake, the Obama administration makes do with a feeble request that Israel waits.

    There is logic behind this apparent American weakness: Obama needs the support of the US’s Jews in the upcoming presidential elections, hence his reluctance to enter into a diplomatic confrontation with the Israeli Prime Minister.

    According to this explanation, Obama must catch up with Republican rival Mitt Romney, who came to be photographed next to Netanyahu in Jerusalem. Obama despises Netanyahu, but he has put aside his feelings at least until the elections are over.
    This is one of the reasons that Netanyahu and Barak want to attack in the coming weeks, when Obama will be forced to support Israel, because of his political needs at home. But even if Obama is held back by the campaign, his restraints do not put his European peers under any kind of obligation. Angela Merkel, David Cameron and Francois Hollande dislike Netanyahu as much as Obama does, but in Germany, Britain and France there is no strong lobby for Israel. And even so, the Europeans are silent.
    During Netanyahu’s first term as Prime Minister, European leaders visited Israel often in order to protest the stalemate in the peace process and settlement expansion. And now? The two most important guests that have visited Jerusalem in the past two weeks were the Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr and the Prime Minister of Tonga. Friendly nations, but ones that lack influence in matters of war and peace.

    For Americans and Europeans who are leading a hard line against Iran, it is difficult to present a position that will be interpreted as a defence of the Iranian nuclear program in the face of an Israeli strike.

    They can, however, demonstrate diplomatic activity, flood Israel and Iran with visits, brief the press, and maybe even posit creative solutions to calm the crisis. Their reluctance and their silence imply their support for an attack by Netanyahu.

    If a war breaks out, they will do everything to minimise any ensuing damage, to reach a ceasefire and to calm the oil market.

    And maybe they just think that Netanyahu is bluffing. Maybe, much as they did not believe his pronouncements over a future Palestinian state, they think that his talk of a strike is nothing more than empty words.

    Haaretz…..”

  107. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:06 am

    The High Court Big Tobacco decision is out today as well

  108. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:22 am

    ‘I can`t work out if your being `ironic`

    Around here its par for the course.

  109. August 15, 2012 10:23 am

    Iran demonises Israel, Israel demonises Iran.

    Iran is a signatory to the NPT, Israel………is not.

    Netanyahu is sabre rattling, the confected justifications against Iran are dubious & long have been.
    Surely if Israel was about to conduct actual military strikes against Iran it wouldn’t be telegraphing them so loudly. Wouldn’t surprise be more prudent & likely to succeed?
    Also, there is the issue of the tyranny of distance to overcome, with Iraq et al refusing the use of their airspaces for transit/refuelling.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty#India.2C_Israel.2C_and_Pakistan

    Maybe someone should be threatening Israel, India & Pakistan?

  110. Earth-shattering kaboom permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:28 am

    No need for Israel to attack while there are all these mystery explosions at Iran’s nuclear facilities.

  111. public toilet permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:58 am

    Unsurprisingly, only one narrow interpretation of the issue gets most of the airplay…& the manufacturing of consent for aggression against Iran continues unabated.

    Words are wind.

  112. August 15, 2012 11:08 am

    Should Australia be accepting asylum seekers from Iran?

  113. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 11:18 am

    So Big Tobacco lost

    If someone tried to introduce such a lethal substance onto the Market today they would be prosecuted. Hopefully we’ll now see smoking rates fall to such a degree over the next 15 or so years that an outright ban or astronomical taxes might not require too much political courage as what it does now.

    Well done to Nicola Roxon and the ALP.

  114. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 15, 2012 11:24 am

    Consent has already been manufactured for the Arab Spring spread of murderous regimes with a dark-ages view of human rights. The leftist-islamofascist alliance is in full effect. Meanwhile in Australia neo-nazis riot outside Jewish businesses and synagogues.

  115. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 11:41 am

    I need a mop

  116. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 12:10 pm

    Its just shocking the amount of Cyber Bullying that happens these day with examples such as ……………………..

    “Grow up, fuck off and stop your bullshit”

    And

    Miglo
    JULY 24, 2012 @ 7:01 PM
    Min, I just removed your comment. Personal attacks are not necessary.

    So to counteract this undesirable language in New Zealand they are going to do this……………..
    *********************************************************************************************
    DOW JONES

    15/08/2012 10:36AM AEST

    WELLINGTON (AFP)–New Zealand said Wednesday it was considering making cyber-bullying a criminal offense, amid concerns that existing laws offer inadequate protection from online harassment.

    A Law Commission report said adolescents were particularly vulnerable to cyber-bullying, which could lead to depression, self-harm and suicide among victims.

    The report’s author, legal academic John Burrows, said existing laws had failed to keep pace with developments in social media and police were dealing with increasing numbers of complaints about online threats and harassment.

    He recommended the creation of a new crime specifically aimed at cyber-bullying, making it illegal to post grossly offensive, obscene or threatening content that was aimed at causing emotional harm.

    The proposed offense would carry a maximum penalty of three months in prison.
    Justice Minister Judith Collins welcomed the 160-page report and said the government would consider its recommendations as a priority.

    He (Mr Burrows) also called for establishment of a specialized online communications tribunal, with the power to issue “takedown notices” ordering the immediate removal of offensive content.

  117. August 15, 2012 2:03 pm

    “Grow up, fuck off and stop your bullshit”

    I know, it’s hilarious isn’t it. What is it with the left and abuse?

  118. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 2:07 pm

    ‘…illegal to post grossly offensive, obscene or threatening content that was aimed at causing emotional harm.’

    This has to be a legal minefield.

  119. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 15, 2012 2:37 pm

    Yes, though the abuse is simply a reflection of the pressure/intensity of the debate!!

    It’s Catching Up vs Scaper and Min vs Iain Hall, both tagging with Adrian!

    A cerebral battle royale, a scholarly slugfest, an intellectual punch-on!

    It’s all AbbottAbbottAbbott vs GillardGillardGillard, and importantly, it is conducted entirely without humour or irony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  120. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 3:19 pm

    ‘…conducted entirely without humour or irony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!’

    They have Buckley’s chance of winning the bloggies award.

  121. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 3:38 pm

    Oh and look………………..someone else agrees

    Miglo
    August 15, 2012 @ 2:18 am
    Has anybody else noticed the increase in cyber-bullying as well?

    ROFLMAO

  122. August 15, 2012 4:06 pm

    ‘…conducted entirely without humour or irony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!’

    Ah, the braying guffaw! It is the signature sound sung of this circus of simpletons. Meanwhile at another place serious people debate serious issues. Politely.

  123. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 4:19 pm

    Hello MiniPig,

    Yes it is polite over there isn’t it

    Now………….just quietly…………..“Grow up, fuck off and stop your bullshit”

    ROFLMAO

  124. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 15, 2012 4:26 pm

    Hello, and thank you for visiting.

    ” serious people

    I dare you to name one!

  125. August 15, 2012 4:39 pm

    I visit only to raise the standard of debate in this little shop of horrors. I knew I would be disappointed. Still, there must be a way that reasonable people can discuss serious issues without the conversation being shattered by the rabid screech of the resident flying monkey squadron.

  126. August 15, 2012 5:00 pm

    “Meanwhile at another place serious people debate serious issues. ”

    LOL! Like what; “on a scale of 8 to 10, how good is Julia Gillard?”

  127. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:00 pm

    You’re very welcome to raise the standard! Everyone is welcome here, and no perspective is shut out!

    How’s that for innovation in blogging?

  128. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:03 pm

    “on a scale of 8 to 10, how good is Julia Gillard?”

    And

    “How’s that for innovation in blogging?”

    ROFLMAO

  129. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:06 pm

    Should Australia be accepting asylum seekers from Iran?

    Do you think , James’, great grandad, in 1935, said … “Should Australia be accepting Jewish asylum seekers from Germany?”

    Astounding! 🙄

    Mindthoughts from heaven!

  130. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:10 pm

    Well done to Nicola Roxon and the ALP.

    Hear! Hear! Wally

    (Disclaimer: Started smokin at 11 and went cold turkey at 32 – watched my old man die of emphysemia …)

  131. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:15 pm

    NBN is a huge waste of money, it is the most expensive in the world by a factor of 4 or 5, and it won’t be delivered anywhere near the budgeted cost, or on time.

    and we still want it 😆

    govt is hopeless blah blah blah, everything they do and everything they say is wrong, terrible and even worse, blah blah blah

    is there a better alternative tomm? who do you suggest?

  132. MiniPiglo permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:21 pm

    “on a scale of 8 to 10, how good is Julia Gillard?”

    As you are no doubt aware, there is a wider range of opinion than that. The difference is that at the Café people mostly stick to whispering, or at least keep the volume at the level of civility. Here the conversation starts out shouty, rises to a screech and dissolves into insane ranting.

    Gillard is a case in point. A rational assessment reveals a string of policy successes obscured by a torrent of filth dished out by a sexist media clique hellbent on trivialising politics with an undue focus on sensational rumours and allegations. Yet any attempt to make that simple and telling point here is met by a torrent of abuse from the howler-monkey faction. Just watch what happens.

  133. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:29 pm

    Its a moot point whether a satirical blog can be ‘grossly offensive’ or ‘obscene’ in the eyes of the law.

  134. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:36 pm

    “…Should Australia be accepting asylum seekers from Iran?…”

    “…Do you think , James’, great grandad, in 1935, said … “Should Australia be accepting Jewish asylum seekers from Germany?”…”

    we had no problem with accepting nazi war criminals, we positively welcomed them.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/nazi-war-criminals-enjoying-a-peaceful-retirement-in-australia-1.432832

    Australia has never convicted a Nazi war criminal, even though hundreds found sanctuary there after the war. A special unit set up by the federal government in 1987 investigated 841 suspects. It was shut down in 1992 without a single successful conviction.

    Nazi propagandist Urbancic and Liberal hard man dies after 30 powerful years

    http://nrhjh.blogspot.com.au/2006/10/not-real-happy-john-howard-lifting-lid.html

    Lyenko Urbanchich has died aged 83. Urbanchich came to Australia after WWII to escape accountability for his actions in support of Nazi Germany during that war.

    He found a comfortable place in the bosom of the Liberal Party…

    …Although exposure by journalist Mark Aarons in 1979 forced Urbanchic into the background, the Uglies continued to exercise considerable power in the Liberal Party, and are a key part of the power base of Tony Abbot, Bronwyn Bishop and John Howard.

  135. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:38 pm

    “A rational assessment reveals a string of policy successes obscured by a torrent of filth dished out by a sexist media clique hellbent on trivialising politics with an undue focus on sensational rumours and allegations”

    Well that’s an interesting perspective that we have never considered around here……………………………

    ………………So it’s the Hate Media’s fault……………ROFLMAO

  136. August 15, 2012 5:39 pm

    “Gillard is a case in point.”

    Indeed she is..

    Despite:

    1. Lying about walking away or not walking away from the carbon tax/price commtiment she did or didn’t make, and;

    2. Welching on the written agreement she had with Andrew Wilkie regarding pokie reform ( that she has now conveniently shelve until after the next election), and;

    3. knifing Kevin Rudd – a sitting prime minister – who remains twice as popular, and;

    4. Steadfastly opposing marriage equality despite the fact that the majority of Australians want it and as the rest of the developed world moves towards it, and;

    5. Beligerently pushing for offshore processing for asylum seekers yet condemning it when it was a Howard govt policy.

    Despite all of this, the Gillard cheer club still think that Labor under Gillard is a party of “the Left” when the reality couldn’t be further from the truth.

  137. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:39 pm

    **Australia has never convicted a Nazi war criminal … **

    KL, I vaguely remember at least one bring deported, maybe more … but true Idon’t remember any “convictions” here …

  138. August 15, 2012 5:40 pm

    “Yet any attempt to make that simple and telling point here is met by a torrent of abuse from the howler-monkey faction”

    What you mean like “reb, why don’t you grow up, fuck off and stop your bullshit?”

    😉

  139. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 5:46 pm

    Minpiglo its all one way traffic at the kaf and anyone going in the opposite direction is run over by jollya’s troops, but of course you already know that.

    I remember a night when Noddy returned from that place in a terrible combative state and I hardly recognised the man.

    But’s that’s the past, everyone is welcome here… and there are no trolls.

  140. August 15, 2012 5:48 pm

    “As you are no doubt aware, there is a wider range of opinion than that.”

    Yeah right… 🙄

  141. August 15, 2012 6:04 pm

    “everyone is welcome here”

    Almost. After Scaper made not so veiled threats against a regular contributer here, and personal insults directed at another, he can just fuck off.

  142. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 6:09 pm

    I just Googled “Natzis captured in Australia” and got this little lot

    internment of german citizens during wartime is a bit different from allowing fleeing nazi war criminals into australia after the war, giving them assumed names and having asio employ them TB.

    my own grandfather served as a soldier during WW1, served overseas and then served again in WW2 in an internment camp in sth aust [loveday internment camp].

    http://www.themonthly.com.au/studio-mark-aarons-hollow-men-nsw-right-2660

  143. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2012 6:28 pm

    Agree, KL, re internment … I was referring to Nazis who turned up here after WWII (was a boy here in ’61) but I’m sure they were “supposedly” hunting them then …

    Speaking of POW camps (not the same I know) … my Teutonic mate, is about ten years my junior, a few years ago he got a job as a Service Manager in a dealership specialising in prestige European cars … Porsche, BMW, Rolls, Daimler, etc … (my friend has impeccable quals having been trained by Porsche in Germany) … anyway, he walked into his office one day and found that someone had put a big black swastika on all his business cards …

    He walked to the lunchroom and slowly flicked all the cards across the room … silence …

    … then he said, “It may interest you to know” … Wolfie, still has a strong German accent … “zat my grandsfaser died in a German POW camp …”, he turned and walked to the door … he turned back to the room … still silence …

    … “He fell off a vatchtower!”

    He left and the room remained silent!

    True story …

    A few months later his employment was terminated … he sued for racial discrimination and won … and I love the man! 😆

  144. MiniPiglo permalink
    August 15, 2012 6:31 pm

    Gillard’s achievements need to be acknowledged. When you weigh those against the faux-scandals you see good solid policies – on critical issues like the environment, IR, education, taxation, health and disability – on one side. On the other there is a lot of fluff, things that will be forgotten by history while her achievements will prove to be of enduring benefit. Gillard has soared above the limitations of a hung parliament, she has defied the media and its rich and powerful puppeteers and shown great resilience in ignoring the manufactured filth spewed on her, day in, day out.

    That is the reality. That is the big picture that is lost among the jeers of the ignorant and the self-interested. No amount of recycled Abbott/Hockey talking points, no squealing incoherence from the banana brigade baboons, can obscure those achievements. Nor will they stop her progress. There is still much to be done before the next election. Gillard may not tick every box on every wishlist but she has achieved a great deal and will be seen as a truly great prime minister.

    The extent of the shrill screeching, sadly interminably repackaged here, is merely a measure of her effectiveness.

  145. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 6:31 pm

    In scaper’s defence, you claim he made ‘veiled threats against a regular contributer here, and personal insults directed at another’.

    So what we have to decide is whether this ‘threatening content was aimed at causing emotional harm’ or was just a misunderstanding.

  146. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 6:33 pm

    …’on critical issues like the environment’

    Fail.

  147. August 15, 2012 6:42 pm

    “the faux-scandals”

    Guffaw.

  148. August 15, 2012 6:44 pm

    Try “physical harm” egg.

    Likewise with the Farnham Bear who promised to pay me “a personal visit.”

    What is it with teh left and violence….?

  149. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2012 6:45 pm

    I almost answered that, egg ..

  150. August 15, 2012 6:48 pm

    “The extent of the shrill screeching, sadly interminably repackaged here, is merely a measure of her effectiveness.”

    “a measure of her effectiveness….?”

    Chuckle…. 🙂

  151. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 6:52 pm

    A few months later his employment was terminated … he sued for racial discrimination and won … and I love the man!

    disgusting. how awful for him TB, and they keep insisting that australians aren’t racist! unfortunately too many people from other backgrounds know it is so from personal experience.

    did he go back there though TB? the thing that bothers me is that even when they win a case against the employer, they lose, because the relationship is now so toxic that it is not worthwhile going back to them.

    sorry, i realised that i gave you the wrong mark aarons link, it was the one [had another web page open] where he talks about the problems with the labor party today and the machine men – a very good interview to view anyway [i’m sure tomm would agree].

  152. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 6:56 pm

    MiniPig is taking the Piss aint he/she ?

    That is hilarious all those reforms especially on Taxation. What utter BS

    “Disability”…………………………….Yeah…………………more like a totally unfunded motherhood statement. She might as well have said everyone should be able to afford a BMW.

    She’s a f**king idiot.and she will go down as the worst PM since McMahon.

    History will not be kind to an Evil woman who let hundreds drown

  153. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2012 6:58 pm

    **did he go back there though TB?**

    No, KL, for the reasons you state … he’s had a few ups and down’s with employment … he’s a very clever man (wicked – and I mean wicked, sense of humour!) … that’s one of his strengths but naturally a weakness where humourless, self centred egos are concerned … (ie low self esteemed senior managers) … they simply can’t deal with his “logic” …

  154. August 15, 2012 7:01 pm

    “MiniPig is taking the Piss aint he/she ?”

    Dunno, but at least he/she/it is more lucid than Catching Up…

  155. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2012 7:03 pm

    History will not be kind to an Evil woman who let hundreds drown

    Get back in yer box, yer Wally! Nastiness is as nastiness does … 🙄

    You sound like your reading a fkn fairy tale …

    She might as well have said everyone should be able to afford a BMW.

    Don’t know why, one of the most over-rated/over-priced vehicles on the road … a tosser’s choice …

    Maybe disabled folk should just “disappear” like they did in Germany in the late 1930’s? 🙄

  156. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 7:14 pm

    ‘…she has achieved a great deal and will be seen as a truly great prime minister.’

    Joolya will be routed at the next election and viewed by historians as a failure….remember realpolitik.

  157. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 7:21 pm

    In scaper’s defence…

    there is no defending scaper. i hope this is not a ‘bring back scaper’ campaign, you better start preparing for yet another blog reb!

  158. August 15, 2012 7:24 pm

    “Joolya will be routed at the next election and viewed by historians as a failure”

    Not to mention a liar, a duplicitous cheat who can’t be trusted, a backstabber and a Union puppet.

    But yeah, the barrackers think her shit doesn’t stink….

    🙄

  159. August 15, 2012 7:28 pm

    “. i hope this is not a ‘bring back scaper’ campaign, ”

    Definitely not Kitty, teh cafe can have him…

  160. public toilet permalink
    August 15, 2012 7:53 pm

    Minipiglo makes a couple of good points, but isn’t nearly as condescendingly correct as it thinks it is. I agree that Gillard isn’t as loathsome as she’s held up to be. I well remember the rightards making similar grand accusations of ‘wo rst PM ever’ against Rudd.
    A strange anomaly, not disimilar (sic) from the ALP limpets, many of whom may be found practicing mutual affirmation at cafe abscess, when they jumped without irony from supporting Rudd 110% to backing Gillard 110% in the blink of an eye.

  161. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 15, 2012 8:08 pm

    Scaper fits in well, like most of the others, he checks his shoe size to find his IQ.

  162. August 15, 2012 8:09 pm

    “..ALP limpets..“ … “..practicing mutual affirmation..“ etc. @dunny

    I know both rusted-on ALP voters and Lib voters who switched to Kevin07, and most of them can`t take to Joolya, even tho they agree the minority, watermelon Govt IS working. Too much blatant Lying/knifing/Lecturing personality type shit, that probably won`t win them over. They feel cheated out of their vote. Funny situation.

  163. public toilet permalink
    August 15, 2012 8:21 pm

    Indeed, 730, it is precarious to heavily invest your political stock in either side. You just end up jaded or compromised or looking used & beholden to their machinations.

    The great bulk of political commentary in the blogosphere seems to be aligned one way or the other. Eventually it feels like you’ve heard it all before. The same old variations on accusations & apologetics from each camp.

  164. August 15, 2012 8:35 pm

    “.invest your political stock.“??

    good thing I don`t have any political stock Toilet,
    probably a poor investment.

  165. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:00 pm

    “Nastiness is as nastiness does”

    Yep. Hundreds drowned. Thank you Kevin. Thank you Julia. And thank you bleeding hearts everywhere.

  166. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:41 pm

    “We will decide who comes here and under what circumstances they will arrive talk about molecules…”

  167. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:51 pm

    BAT and Imperial Tobacco are being hammered on the Footsie tonight.

    Good !

    High Court decision is getting a lot of airtime on the USA financial paytv channels tonight

  168. August 16, 2012 12:17 pm

    Bolt’s Freedom of Expression crusade is ver selective indeed! Shows his bleating for what it is…wounded pride & self pity, not actual defence of the right for all.

    What a piece of shit he is.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/barbarians_defended/desc/#commentsmore

  169. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2012 2:31 pm

    Something sage advice from 1959:

    Judge Gilliam’s letter appeared as follows.

    Always we hear the cry from teenagers, “what can we do, were can we go?”

    The answer is go home, mow the lawn, wash the windows, learn to cook, build a raft, get a job, visit the sick, study your lessons and after you’ve finished, read a book. Your town does not owe you recreational facilities and your parents do not owe you fun.

    The world does not owe you a living, you owe the world something. You owe it your time and your energy and your talent so that no one will be at war or in sickness or lonely again.

    In other words grow up, stop being a cry baby, get out of your dream world and develop a backbone, not a wishbone. Start behaving like a responsible person. you are important and you are needed. It’s too late to sit around and wait for somebody to do something someday. Someday is now and that somebody is you.

  170. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 16, 2012 9:17 pm

    http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/ecuador-to-announce-assange-asylum-britain-threat-to-raid-embassy/story-e6frfkp9-1226451503293

    It would be an outrage if the UK police disregarded the sovereignty of Ecuador by raiding the embassy and arresting Assange.

    I think I’d protest against the UK, USA and Sweden. Australia too.

    Mainly USA and UK. The pretext foreshadowed by the UK, using a law from the 80s which was intended to allow the arrest of a murderer inside the Libyan, would be a crock.

    • Assange hasn’t been charged,
    • Swedish police said they’d dropped their investigation after he’d stayed on there for 6 weeks following the complaint,
    • the allegation is (I think) involves consensual sex, but unprotected,
    • the extradition application is only for investigation and
    • Assange has offered to meet the investigators several times, just not in Sweden.

    People should be quite bothered by this matter, and by the apathy of this government.

  171. public toilet permalink
    August 16, 2012 9:37 pm

    I think it’s fkn disgraceful. You’ve gotta wonder where it will end if they’re all so willing to bend over for the US so easily.
    It’s not surprising, but it should be condemned loudly.

    Fuckers twist the rules & the arms of allies as they go along.

  172. public toilet permalink
    August 16, 2012 9:39 pm

    It wouldn’t matter who was in power here. They all know that their job is to bend over for the US.

  173. August 16, 2012 10:07 pm

    It wouldn’t matter who was in power here.
    They all `enjoy` their job to bend over `regularly` for the US.

  174. JAWS permalink
    August 16, 2012 10:54 pm

    “• Assange has offered to meet the investigators several times, just not in Sweden.”

    If it was you or I accused of this stuff ( rape )we would not be given such a favor.

    Why should he ?

    He’s very happy to talk the talk about justice until Sweden or the UK try to apply it to him.

    But I am against invading embassies unless they harbour proven crims.

    He can just stay there until he gets sick of their cuisine whatever that is.

  175. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 11:08 pm

    The nearby restaurants are okay, he may get takeaway.

    http://www.londontown.com/NearByRestaurants/Restaurant/25243/Directory/Restaurant/Restaurant-near-Ecuador%20Embassy/

  176. JAWS permalink
    August 16, 2012 11:46 pm

    I prefer Crust Pizza Eg

    Anyway

    Europe is on hold because they are all on hols.

    Go figure !

  177. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 17, 2012 9:14 am

    ”Top Gear host Jeremy Clarkson has called Britain “a nation of 62 million complete and utter bastards” after claiming people abused and made jokes when he announced on Twitter that his dog had died”

    Well, we don’t have that many, but there are a few who exhibit similar behaviour.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/a-nation-of-bastards-jeremy-clarkson-hits-out-after-twitter-abuse-over-dead-dog-20120817-24c43.html#ixzz23kmP1B8V

  178. August 17, 2012 12:11 pm

    There is no way Abbott would have agreed to a Carbon Price or Tax. Of that we can be certain and therefore Windsor is a liar. It’s not the first time Windsor has lied in this manner.

    Yeah I’m not certain what’s more farcical. Assange can just as easily be extradited from the UK as Sweden so why not just face the questions? But by the same token, a helluva lot of diplomatic blood is being spilt over this creep (and to be honest, I tend to think that’s pretty much all he’s guilty of) by both the UK and Ecuador. Ecuador might want to examine its own Human Rights record and others ought probably look into Ecuador’s motivations in this. Embassies don’t exist in the UK for South American Socialist states to score political points against the US.

  179. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 17, 2012 12:26 pm

    I think Windsor is reacting to the fact that he is deeply unpopular in his electorate, though not as unpopular as the airhead down the road.

    Windsor is a disaffected National, with plenty of resentment. He’d like another term, but he’ll now either have to retire or get beaten.

    That’s the motivation for his bitterness.
    ———————————-
    Apparently Sweden has extradition for questioning/investigation, not simply charges. The UK requires charges. That’s why there is suspicion about sending Assange there.

    Assange has done good work, and I’ve not heard of any really, really bad consequences hat have resulted from his activities.

  180. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 17, 2012 12:38 pm

    I’ve not heard of any really, really bad consequences hat have resulted from his activities.”

    Assange has done some good work, but he is also a psychopath and narcissist, which is why he is held in such high esteem by the celebrity left. He claimed that “1,300 people were eventually killed, and 350,000 were displaced. That was a result of our leak,” in relation to Kenya. Apparently he doesn’t see that as really bad consequence.

  181. August 17, 2012 12:39 pm

    Yes, but Tom Sweden can’t extradite Assange to the US without UK consent, which the UK can’t give unless there are charges.

    All of that said, Assange found himself with a heap of power. It’s interesting what he chose to do with that. I’m all for protection of whistle blowers etc, but somehow I can’t quite generate the type of sympathy for Assange as I can for others. Assange chose to play a very dangerous game, and put countless lives at risk. He’s a self promoter in the extreme. I am extremely doubtful that he is motivated by anything other than his own ego in doing what he does.

  182. August 17, 2012 12:44 pm

    Jeeez, snacty! Spoken like a true rightard…on both issues. Yummy, yummy Bolt for breakfast. 🙄

    “There is no way Abbott would have agreed to a Carbon Price or Tax. Of that we can be certain…”

    Wow, how so?! That sounds like an ill advised absolute. In the room with them were you? I suppose Abbott has never lied?

    It doesn’t strike you as strange that such great lengths are being gone to to get Assange to Sweden?
    It must be evil South American leftists then!

  183. August 17, 2012 12:46 pm

    If you can’t see the bigger implications outside of Assange as an unsavoury individual then I feel your head is inserted in your backvalve.

  184. August 17, 2012 12:50 pm

    I should add that plenty of South American countries have very good historical reasons to be wary of the US & its proxies, given their bloody interferences in the region & ongoing subversions of foreign governments there who don’t fit into their way of doing things.
    But, given that you fail to see anything but the US view of what happened to Allende, it’s probably not worth reminding you.

  185. August 17, 2012 1:03 pm

    Abbott would have been removed before the words Carbon Tax exited his mouth. It’s the only reason he was made leader in the first place.

    I am a bit surprised at the lengths both the UK and Sweden are going to to get Assange. But again, he’s made such a public spectacle of thumbing his nose at them I guees their hand is forced.

    To me, Assange falls into the same category of fckwit that Hicks and Habib did. There are Australians all over the world in need of consular assistance who haven’t willingly jumped into their situation. I’ll join in the protests if Sweden extradite him to the US, but I’ve read a few legal opinions on it, and I just don’t believe that extradition to Sweden brings him any closer to extradition to the US.

    I see a lot of views on what happened to Allende, I just don’t happen to support his canonisation by the Left, simply because he was an enemy of the big bad US of A. At the time the USSR were just as big, and a helluva lot badder.

  186. August 17, 2012 1:24 pm

    Yes, letting the US interfere & depose sovereign governments isn’t questionable at all. So much easier to acquiesce if they’ve still got you jumping at socialist shadows.

    Australia is once again demonstrating just how subservient it is to powerful interests. Also reminding the world that any pronouncements about doing the right thing by its nationals overseas is mere lipservice, subject to the desires of Uncle Sam.
    How proud we must be, acting like good little doggys.

    I find it comical that objecting to the killing & removal of Allende, a democratically elected leader, can some how be construed as ‘canonising’ him! 😯
    All he was guilty of was not letting monolithic US corporate interests exploit his national resources. For that he was made to pay. Decades later, it appears that the smokescreen is still obscuring reality for faithful admirers of a self interested super power.

  187. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 17, 2012 1:25 pm

    The biggest implication of the Assange case is that he shouldn’t get away with sexual assault just because the smart set like him. It reminds me of the way they excused and then feted Roman Polanski notwithstanding that he drugged and anally raped a 13 year old girl.

    There really isn’t any more to this than that. Wikileaks or something like it will continue with or without him. In the meantime he should be subject to the law just like everyone else.

  188. August 17, 2012 1:27 pm

    “Abbott would have been removed before the words Carbon Tax exited his mouth. It’s the only reason he was made leader in the first place. ”

    That is how you can be certain that Abbott didn’t grovel & scrape & promise to sell his integrity out to be PM?
    I think that’s more of a hunch than a certainty. The man isn’t pure as the driven snow.

  189. August 17, 2012 1:33 pm

    I have no problem with Assange answering for his alleged crimes. I think he’s agreed many times to meet with the investigators.

    As far as wikileaks continuing or not. I suppose it, or something like it will…but, do you really think that they’re not out to make an example of anyone who undermines their control? I see it as a message of deterence for all future Assanges or leakers.

    Fuck the powers that be. They should have daylight shone on their backroom machinations because it renders their public rhetoric to be defunct, often as not. Letting them have total control of information is an orwellian mistake.

  190. I witness permalink
    August 17, 2012 1:44 pm

    Subscribers to the suicide version of Allende’s death have no more or less credibility than the assassination theorists.

    Unless they were in the room.

  191. Lunatic asylum permalink
    August 17, 2012 1:49 pm

    As a free speech extremist I approve of Assange’s work with Wikileaks. As a believer in the rule of law I think Assange should go to Sweden to answer his accusers.

  192. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 17, 2012 2:00 pm

    “It’s not the first time Windsor has lied in this manner.”

    “Somebody’s lying!…I reckon it’s the churchy wanker.”

    What lies has windsor said? I would say that abbott lies day in and day out, hardly ever gets called on them either. I would believe windsor over abbott for truthiness.

    I am a bit surprised at the lengths both the UK and Sweden are going to to get Assange. But again, he’s made such a public spectacle of thumbing his nose at them I guees their hand is forced.

    Assange has offered to be interviewed by the swedish at any time, just not in sweden and considering what is at stake for him, he shouldn’t. Why is sweden being so intransigent if it just wants to clear up the matter? Sweden is doing the dirty work of the us – and so is australia, I think the gillard govt. has been absolutely cowardly on assange. All the way with the usa on [illegal] wars is one thing but to allow our citizen to be put in such danger without defending him is doormat stuff.

    I don’t think it’s got anything to do with sweden or the uk, the almighty usa is behind it all. No-one is allowed to divulge any of their double dealings and world meddling. One of the nutters would probably shoot him anyway.

    I believe that as soon as assange went to sweden, there would be the short court case on the sex matter and then he’d be renditioned to the us where they would ensure he never saw freedom again. can’t mess with the corporocracy and can’t actually advocate for the interests of the common people.

    I guess some whistleblowers are worse than others eg kathy jackson is apparently a martyr but assange is the most dangerous man in the world.

  193. August 17, 2012 2:01 pm

    Toilet, you accuse me of being blinkered on Allende, yet you overlook that he was installed by the USSR, and he killed himself. You appear to have no problem with Soviet interference in South American politics, just that of the US. And you know that whilst the US were probably involved in earlier operations against Allende, they were probably not involved in the one that ousted him, beyond being probably glad it happened. All this is pretty well documented.

    Now I don’t know why you raised Allende. This is about Ecuador, a nation that imprisons jounalists for offending Presidents, taking the high moral ground granting asylum for a big noting, big headed, and irresponsible disseminator of information. Now if he’d been a little more circumspect with what he leaked, focussed on cables that, for example, showed the US knew Iraq didn’t have WMD’s, I’d have no problem. But he dumped the lot, and didn’t give a flying fck about the consequences. So to be honest, I really don’t give much of a fck about the consequences he faces. And, by the way, if you’re sleeping with a chick and she asks you to take certain precautions, and you don’t, then that makes you a cnt. Assange is a cnt, even if he’s not a rapist.

    And on Abbott, I’m sure he did grovel. But he didn’t, and wouldn’t have agreed to a Carbon Tax. That’s what Windsor said, and Windsor is lying. Turnbull got removed for agreeing to an ETS, Abbott would have been removed in the same way for the same reason. Turnbull (fckwit that he is) is far more electable than Abbott so why would the Coalition tolerate Abbott? Because he did the opposite of Turnbull on CO2. That’s how I know Windsor is a liar. That and the fact that he has form.

  194. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 17, 2012 2:02 pm

    As a believer in the rule of law I think Assange should go to Sweden to answer his accusers.

    All they have to do is guarantee that they won’t hand him over to the us – so far they have refused to do so.

  195. August 17, 2012 2:14 pm

    “he was installed by the USSR”

    WTF?

    Says you. I wonder who lead you to believe that?! 🙄

  196. Foil fedora permalink
    August 17, 2012 2:18 pm

    Yes but Sancty that still doesn’t rule out the US sending mind rays telling Allende to kill himself.

  197. August 17, 2012 2:19 pm

    Well Toilet, what makes you say he was deposed by the US/CIA?

  198. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 17, 2012 2:19 pm

    I think most of the Wikileaks stuff was mundane. It didn’t add much to what we already know about the way governments operate. And got a few people killed. Climategate was more interesting in terms of exposing how politicised scientists tried to divert billions of other peoples’ money to their cause.

    “Letting them have total control of information is an orwellian mistake.”

    I get that once the information is leaked it should be published. The question is whether Bradley Manning should be convicted. We are not talking about the suppression of information or opinions (which is what Gillard wants with her Media Council) but the ability of governments to gather and keep confidential information and their opinions.

    Assange’s theory was that if you destroy the ability of governments or other entities to communicate in private they will cease to be able to function effectively. I’m not sure I want that outcome.

  199. TB Queensland permalink
    August 17, 2012 2:30 pm

    It reminds me of the way they excused and then feted Roman Polanski notwithstanding that he drugged and anally raped a 13 year old girl.

    There really isn’t any more to this than that. Wikileaks or something like it will continue with or without him. In the meantime he should be subject to the law just like everyone else.

    Yep, me too!

    Of that we can be certain and therefore Windsor is a liar

    No, we can’t and no, he’s not*, we know that Abbott lies (or freezes) the interwebby thingy is full of videos of him lying over and over … would you like to see some? FMD, James, talk about “blind” faith …

    I would believe windsor over abbott for truthiness. ,/i.

    Absolutely! Just listening to the two men talk will tell you that! (And who has the most to lose … not Windsor!

    But he didn’t, and wouldn’t have agreed to a Carbon Tax

    And that is an irrelevant side issue that you seem to keep regurgitating … just to make a point Abbott can (HAS!) flip flop as easily as the you accuse the Prime Minister of doing … the interwebby thingy is full of examples … would you like to see some?

    All they have to do is guarantee that they won’t hand him over to the us …

    Why do they “have” to? Who says? There are extradition agreements with both the UK and Sweden with the US … if it was me I’d have been shipped off to Sweden months ago … or are you telling me that under the law Assange has special privileges that I don’t?

  200. August 17, 2012 2:31 pm

    Because if it’s funding and logistical support, well that’s exactly what the Soviets gave Allende in his election. You might have to look elsewhere than Chomsky to read that though.

  201. TB Queensland permalink
    August 17, 2012 2:32 pm

    Assange’s theory was that if you destroy the ability of governments or other entities to communicate in private they will cease to be able to function effectively. I’m not sure I want that outcome.

    You’re making a lot of sense, this arvo, sp! 😉

  202. August 17, 2012 2:32 pm

    redux…

    I find it comical that objecting to the killing & removal of Allende, a democratically elected leader, can some how be construed as ‘canonising’ him! 😯 All he was guilty of was not letting monolithic US corporate interests exploit his national resources. For that he was made to pay. Decades later, it appears that the smokescreen is still obscuring reality for faithful admirers of a self interested super power.

    I’m on my way out the door. If I get time after work I may delve back into a book I have to answer you. This is likely to be after midnight or tomoz. 🙂

    Suffice to say, The US has a far bloodier history of interference in South America than the USSR (which has been extinct for quite a while, in case you hadn’t noticed….I know, old boogeymen die hard in the corridors of the mind). The domino theory is rhetorical crap used as a lever to justify sundry US attrocities by their enthusiasts.

    None of this is in any way an endorsement or apologetic exercise for the USSR.
    I made the initial point to highlight the attitude of those who can’t see past the end of their noses to recognise that South American governments still have very legitimate reasons to have a frosty relationship with the US after you alluded to ‘socialist point scoring’ (squirt, squirt).

    Catchya… 🙂

  203. August 17, 2012 2:38 pm

    TB, I’ve explained why Abbott didn’t (or wouldn’t) promise a Carbon Tax. It goes to logic and reasoning. Now have a look at your response and in future think twice about rubbishing my methods.

    “Just listening to the two men talk will tell you that”

    Yep. Evidence based as always.

  204. August 17, 2012 2:46 pm

    Fuck off. It’s not a chomsky book I’m referring to. Not that you’d have ever read one anyway. 🙄

  205. August 17, 2012 2:58 pm

    When you’re prepared to factor in Soviet influence in South America, Toilet, I’ll begin to take your anti-American rants more seriously. If you only look at one side of the situation, and simply refer to the other side as “pantswetting” you’re propagandising, not debating. And that’s what Chomsky does.

  206. August 17, 2012 3:00 pm

    All he was guilty of was not letting monolithic US corporate interests exploit his national resources. For that he was made to pay.

    THAT is canonising him (Allende).

  207. public toilet permalink
    August 17, 2012 3:12 pm

    As I said, outside of what’s appeared here over the years & possibly on the Boltblog, you wouldn’t have the first fucking idea about what Chomsky does or doesn’t say. You’ve never bothered to read.

    Calling me one sided on this is hilarious. I’m not aligned, that’s you..

  208. August 17, 2012 3:18 pm

    Wrong, Toilet, because you never acknowledge what is fact, and that is the Soviet element in South American political history.

  209. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 17, 2012 3:46 pm

    I’ll brag (again). I’ve been to Chile and Ecuador (a few times).

    The political sentiment isn’t really like here. A lot of people genuinely dislike USA, and the deep social divisions that are embedded after many generations characterise the politics. It’s an interesting combination of ethnicity and social standing and colonial/super power intervention/meddling. It’s all quite untidy.

    Ecuador has some nice surf though.

  210. August 17, 2012 4:09 pm

    This is a resolution of the Chilean Parliament, 2 weeks before Allende was ousted.

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Breakdown_of_Chile%27s_Democracy

    Note the vote was 81-47.

    That is what the Chilean Parliament, lower house, thought of Allende at the time of the military coup. It’s not the US. It’s not the wealthy bankers. It’s the same bunch of people who had helped Allende form Government 2 years earlier. It gives a far more accurate insight into what the Chileans themselves thought of Allende at the time, and it’s not pretty.

  211. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 17, 2012 4:17 pm

    I think there was plenty of meddling in Chilean politics by the USA, and believe it or not, there is some bribery and corruption in that part of the world!!

  212. August 17, 2012 4:33 pm

    I don’t doubt that, Tom. The CIA were certainly involved in an earlier plot to offload Allende. But……..

    1. it’s unlikely that they were involved in the one that got him
    2. Allende killed himself, he wasn’t assassinated, and certainly not by the CIA
    3. the kind of stuff that Allende was doing before he was offloaded would have most of us in this country calling for a military coup…..read the parliamentary declaration
    4. his election was funded by the Soviet Union

    When people criticise US influence in Latin American politics, they seem to always overlook Soviet influence at the other end of the political spectrum. In doing so, it just becomes anti-American propaganda.*

    *I hereby declare, once again, a certain bias towards the country that guarantees my freedom to go about my life pretty much as I want, say pretty much what I want, and be rewarded reasonably according to how hard I am prepared to work. That doesn’t mean I give that country a free pass in making my judgements, just that I am prepared to have greater faith in their word than those on the other side of the world political spectrum.

  213. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 17, 2012 4:59 pm

    It is a bit odd that Pinochet, who greatly improved the economy of his country and then stood down in favour of democracy is utterly loathed by the left, who seem to much prefer Che and Castro who were much worse than Pinochet by many orders of magnitude. They murdered tens of thousands of people and destroyed Cuba’s economy. Even today Cuba is under the jackboot of the murderous Castro family.

  214. TB Queensland permalink
    August 17, 2012 5:09 pm

    “Just listening to the two men talk will tell you that”

    Yep. Evidence based as always.

    Absolutely … NVC is evidence based … and have been proven to be for decades … a subject I studied at degree level … and was training managers in the “reading” technique over a decade ago. (Would you like some video evidence of NVC?)

    I made an offer of video evidence of Abbott lying? And of doing flip flops like a flounder out of water …???

    TB, I’ve explained why Abbott didn’t (or wouldn’t) promise a Carbon Tax. It goes to logic and reasoning

    … and are you an expert on Abbott’s brain functions? Because his actions and behaviour demsonstrate that Abbott has difficulty with logic and reasoning … (I can provide video evidence of Abbott’s lack of logic and reasoning, if you like?)

    …there is ample evidence of Abbott flip flopping like a fish out of water … BTW, Abbott is not the Liberal Party … he’s one man … and a rather little, bullying, cowardly one … (want some evidence?)

    … or were you referring to your own logic and reasoning, that you haven’t explained …

    Now have a look at your response and in future think twice about rubbishing my methods.

    Methods? What methods? Think twice? 😆

    Why … that’s quite patronising of you, James … 😛

  215. public toilet permalink
    August 17, 2012 5:21 pm

    Can’t see the wood for the fkn trees.

    A consistent apologist. The type of enabler that is comfortable for a superpower to project it’s power well outside of its own borders, with little or no second thought & all too much faith in false altruism.

    Perhaps you missed the bit where I very clearly stayed that I wasn’t excusing the soviets? You, on the other hand, overstate their involvement & are presumably comfortable with the US exploiting whomever they choose; as long as they throw the commie bait in front of themselves.

  216. TB Queensland permalink
    August 17, 2012 5:22 pm

    It is a bit odd that Pinochet, who greatly improved the economy of his country and then stood down in favour of democracy is utterly loathed by the left, who seem to much prefer Che and Castro who were much worse than Pinochet by many orders of magnitude

    Dictators are dictators, sp, whatever politics you side with … is there a moral difference in murdering 1,000 people or 2,000 for political ends?

    Without our “democracy” we too would have a dictatorship … monarchies are simply dictatorships, deceitfully dignified by a concept of either Divine Right of God or bloodline …

    My understanding is Che was simply a “hero” because he took on the Robber Barons on behalf of the peasants … ie a Civil War … Castro simply became another Robber Baron …

    … Pinochet was no better … I was in Santiago for ten days, on business, in the mid nineties – he was loathed by most Chileans … even the senior managers I met said that he was slowly destroying the country (and of course business) with fear … there was daily rallies by people (mostly mothers) seeking lost realtives …

    And, as I’m sure you know, (how many kids do you have again?), fear is only a short term “motivator” … eventually the rebellion will bite you on the bum …

  217. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 17, 2012 6:04 pm

    RED TIME!!

  218. JAWS permalink
    August 17, 2012 6:25 pm

    BEER TIME !

    Sorry for my absence today.

    I’m sure none of you actually missed me………………………….LOL

    Meetings………………….Meetings……………………..Meetings

    to make

    Money…………………….Money……………………………Money

    Exhausted……………………..bring on Friday night footy

    TB………………..your halfback has been pretty useless for the Broncos of late.

    My team is just nuisance value now as you know. Mine are getting a tad old and I think 2010 was so historic for the Club they just completely lost hunger last year and this year. Time to rebuild

    So now its………………………….Go the Bunnies I s’pose (If you are a Sydney person without a viable finals team)

  219. TB Queensland permalink
    August 17, 2012 6:49 pm

    TB………………..your halfback has been pretty useless for the Broncos of late.

    I think we might be in trouble tonight too … we don’t have an answer to Cameron Smith or Slippery Slater … two outstanding veterans … Hodges may have some influence but its a hard road …

    I’ve always liked Sam Thaiday’s enthusiasm and skills … BUT here’s the BUT … as a captain – too young, a forward, not a play maker (nor in a play maker’s position) and he can’t play on the field for 40 minutes (because of his role) … our friends behind us (who have a permanent tickets for home games) are big fans of big Sam’s and thought it was a good choice … it was … emotionally … ( I was not popular when I disagreed … ***)

    … my choice to replace, Lockyer, was always Peter Wallace … a seasoned player, always turns up for the ganes, a play-maker and in the right position to influence a young team …

    Early in the season I was really surprised at the scores, with such a “new” and young team but I criticised lack of leadership on the field 🙄 … Griffin must have known though … I reckon he simply let the boys roam free ’cause they were winning (too much rein?) … a reasonable strategy but its obviously come back to bite – hard …

    Yeah, we always have a slump after the State of Orange but this is a bit different … and while we’ve had injuries of some of our top players, that’s an excuse not a reason …

    (***Luckily I post on TDT so I’m used to making unpopular statements … 🙂 )

  220. JAWS permalink
    August 17, 2012 10:11 pm

    I give up on the interference rule after seeing the West Tigers get shafted.

    My my those 2 “out there” threads of Rebs have attracted some “out there” people’s.

  221. JAWS permalink
    August 17, 2012 10:53 pm

    Pussy Riot found guilty ………Surprise ……. Surprise ……..Surprise.

    I expect to hear from Toilet soon

  222. JAWS permalink
    August 17, 2012 10:54 pm

    How come Assange didnt leak that he was about to get asylum ?

  223. JAWS permalink
    August 17, 2012 10:58 pm

    News Flash on Bloomberg says South African police shoot dead 34 coal miners ?

    Is that right and if so ……..why ?

  224. JAWS permalink
    August 17, 2012 11:01 pm

    Faaaaark.

    Just saw it on recorded Lateline.

    They used automatic weapons on them.

    Blacks shooting Blacks.

  225. public toilet permalink
    August 17, 2012 11:15 pm

    Doesn’t pay to shit Putin off in his own country.

  226. August 17, 2012 11:26 pm

    “Blacks shooting Blacks.”

    Blacks (in the service of white capitalists) shooting blacks.

  227. JAWS permalink
    August 17, 2012 11:58 pm

    Or cathedral !

  228. JAWS permalink
    August 18, 2012 12:00 am

    Why does the Left propogate religious hatred by singing badly in a Cathedral?

    Leave that to the choir

    What is it with the Left and violence ?

  229. JAWS permalink
    August 18, 2012 12:03 am

    Watching Facebook shares continue their death dive on the Dow?

    $19.69 when in May on listing it got to $43

  230. August 18, 2012 12:19 am

    Jail term may be a little excessive, dontcha think?

  231. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 12:27 am

    US intends to chase Assange, cables show

    The hypocritical thing about this is the way the government has been denying the us plans all along, this duplicity and public lying is what assange and wikileaks had been exposing. We should know before the event just what the government is doing and saying in our names. Once again they are acting against the wishes of the people and lying to us about it. Shouldn’t governments be transparent and accountable in the actions and dealings that they undertake on our behalf?

    The pollies are quite happy for this stitch-up to take place, they’ve thrown assange to the wolves and only ask for advance warning so that the ministers can start spinning it.

  232. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 12:28 am

    Jail term may be a little excessive, dontcha think?

    I think so, for singing in a church, like that’s unusual!

  233. August 18, 2012 12:38 am

    Yeah, but they were probably singing the truth about Putin rather than adulating made up people in the sky with sycophantic & self demeaning hymns.
    Better give ’em the electric chair.

  234. JAWS permalink
    August 18, 2012 1:15 am

    Nah ……… Give em Facebook shares…….that’ll screw up their heads.

  235. JAWS permalink
    August 18, 2012 1:32 am

    By the way don’t buy Groupon stuff or use it quick

    Very concerning. It might be ok but not moi

  236. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 18, 2012 9:49 am

    The government is satisfied that the USA is seeking to extradite Assange.

    I suppose they’ll next seek extradition of all the Fairfax (and worldwide media) journalists who also published the leaks.

    It’s a crock and a disgrace.

    (I’m just of to throw a rock through the window of the local US consulate)

  237. August 18, 2012 12:24 pm

    “^ Reference to General Pinochet’s US-backed coup d’etat in Chile in 1973, overthrowing the elected centre-left Popular Unity government led by Salvador Allende [J.B.]”

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_Terrorism_and_the_State

  238. August 18, 2012 12:28 pm

    “The 1973 Chilean coup d’état was a watershed event of the Cold War and the history of Chile. Following an extended period of social and political unrest between the conservative-dominated Congress of Chile and the socialist President Salvador Allende, discontent culminated in the latter’s downfall in a coup d’état organised by the Chilean military and unofficially endorsed by the Nixon administration and the CIA, which had covertly worked to spread discontent and opposition against the government. A military junta led by Allende’s Army Commander-in-Chief Augusto Pinochet eventually took control of the government, composed of the heads of the Air Force, Navy, Carabineros (police force) and the Army.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

  239. August 18, 2012 12:32 pm

    “Despite the declining economy, President Allende’s Popular Unity coalition increased its vote to 43.2 percent in the March 1973 parliamentary elections; but, by then, the informal alliance between Popular Unity and the Christian Democrats ended.[11] The Christian Democrats allied with the right-wing National Party, who were opposed to Allende’s Socialist government; the two right-wing parties forming the Confederación Democrática (CODE) (The Democratic Coalition). The internecine parliamentary conflict, between the legislature and the executive branch, paralyzed the activities of government.[12] To destabilise the Allende Government, the CIA paid some U.S. $8 million to right-wing opposition groups to “create pressures, exploit weaknesses, magnify obstacles” and hasten Allende’s deposition.[13][14] The CIA report released in 2000 records some U.S. $6.8 million spent to depose Allende.[15]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#Political_background

  240. August 18, 2012 12:37 pm

    Note, this is the entire entry in wiki for the soviet role…

    “Soviet role

    According to the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB and the Cuban Intelligence Directorate launched a disinformation campaign following the coup.[21] It is reported that Salvador Allende had a long-lasting relationship with the KGB[22] and the Cuban packages scandal had revealed arms smuggling from Cuba.[23][24] On the other hand sources suggest that the Soviet Union was sympathetic to Allende, but did not assist him because they believed he was “weak” for refusing to use force against the opposition.[22]

    According to Allende’s KGB file, Allende “was made to understand the necessity of reorganizing Chile’s army and intelligence services, and of setting up a relationship between Chile’s and the Soviet Union’s intelligence services”.[22]

    It has been argued that the USSR refused to finance Allende mainly because of his unwillingness of forming a Soviet-type bureaucratic system.[25] ”

    Next, have a look at the magnitude of US/CIA involvement in the 1973 coup! Quite a bit more substantiated involvement to answer for…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#Soviet_role

  241. August 18, 2012 12:43 pm

    The entire link is a bit large to paste the whole thing…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#U.S._role

    “The U.S. Government’s hostility to the election of Socialist President Salvador Allende in Chile was substantiated[28] in documents declassified during the Clinton administration; involving the CIA, which show that covert operatives were inserted in Chile, in order to prevent a Marxist government from arising and for the purpose of spreading anti-Allende propaganda.”

    “The CIA’s second approach, the Track II approach, was designed to encourage a military overthrow, by creating an atmosphere of crisis and disaster (a “coup climate”) in the country. False flag operatives approached senior Chilean military officers, in “some two dozen contacts”, with the message that “the United States intended to cut military assistance to Chile unless they moved against Allende, and that the U.S. desired, and would actively support, a coup.”[31]”

    “Agustín Edwards Eastman, one of the wealthiest men in Chile at the time, played a critical role in convincing the U.S. to “lend a helping hand.” After Allende received 36.3% of popular vote in a three-way election and was chosen by the Chilean congress as president, Edwards almost immediately opposed him.[citation needed] Edwards consulted the U.S. ambassador to Chile to ask if the U.S. would “do anything militarily, directly or indirectly?”

  242. August 18, 2012 1:05 pm

    “Well Toilet, what makes you say he was deposed by the US/CIA?”

    All of the above & more.

    Your ‘soviet involvement’ is tenuous at best & was speculative rather than directly involved. In fact, it was Agustin Edwards that initially got Nixon & Kissinger pissing their pants by making allusions to communism when Allende first won the popular vote in 1970. He planted the seed & those frightened ideologues ran with it until the useful tyrant Pinochet was installed. No soviets on the scene.
    Allende was despised for nationalising the lucrative Chilean copper mining industry (run by US companies Anaconda etc) & the telephone system (ITT, US). Big business got the ball rolling against Allende. Anti-soviet inferences were/are a smokescreen.

    The economy & unrest in Chile prior to the coup of 73 (as described in your link to the ‘Declaration of Breakdown of Chile’) was a direct result of millions of dollars of CIA/US disruption on many economic levels.

    I have a book by Kinzer, which I went back to & read about 40 relevant pages last night, that goes into further detail about the undeniable (& not even disputed) role of the CIA in deposing Allende & installing the humanitarian puppet Pinochet. Obviously I’m not going to type out 40 pages here. If you still don’t believe me, go order the book. I suspect that if you’re not convinced you don’t want to be & you won’t be; no matter what I find & post.

    So, my original point…”I should add that plenty of South American countries have very good historical reasons to be wary of the US & its proxies, given their bloody interferences in the region & ongoing subversions of foreign governments there who don’t fit into their way of doing things.”..stands.
    I haven’t even scratched the surface by going into Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras or Chavez’ Venezuela.

    None so blind.

    I bet if I looked into it, I’d find that they tried to stymie Correa in Ecuador too. Those CIA cables won’t be released for a while I guess. 🙄

  243. Cold warriors permalink
    August 18, 2012 2:42 pm

    ‘the undeniable (& not even disputed) role of the CIA in deposing Allende’

    Not only is it not disputed, the CIA is (now) quite open about its role . . .

    https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/chile/index.html

  244. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 3:25 pm

    http://www.ministryvalues.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=786&Itemid=125

    jan 12, 2010
    Russian Government to give Russian Orthodox Churches $100 millon dollars

    …the Russian government gave the Church a dramactic Christmas gift. Meeting with the patriarch at the Danilov Monastery, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin announced that the government would provide almost $100 million US dollars (RUB 2 billion)…

    …Restrictions on Evangelical Christians

    Funding to restore Christian sites and the return of properties seized from the Church in Soviet times are but the latest gift of the Kremlin to the Patriarchate. This year, the Russia Justice Ministry will present plans to amend the laws on “Freedom of Conscience and Religious Organisations”, which, if approved, would severely restrict the activities of certain religious communities, like Evangelical Christians.

    Putin and Medvedev also plan to provide funds for religious education in Russia

    In addition, the authorities plan to add religious education in public schools as well as chaplains paid by the state to the armed forces. It also appears possible that the Orthodox Patriarchate of Moscow will be granted the right to vet parliamentary bills before they go to the Duma…

    So much for separation of church and state putin. god help pussy riot because the government and goodly church folks have no mercy.

  245. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 18, 2012 3:29 pm

    Toilet, wiki is a starting point for research, not an end point to link to.

  246. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 3:48 pm

    he’s not using wiki as his starting point in research, he’s using it in support of his previously stated arguments.

    i think

  247. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 18, 2012 4:49 pm

    That’s exactly right, Kittylitter.

  248. August 18, 2012 4:57 pm

    Mr-Rabbit, Joolya or Tony Windsor?

    On “truthiness“
    I will back Windsor any day.
    The other two have continually flippety floppitied so far.

  249. public toilet permalink
    August 18, 2012 5:00 pm

    No shit, sancty. 🙄

    What part of the above do you dispute? Are you suggesting that the CIA is lying about itself?
    I think you may be the one who needs to do further reading on the topic.
    I doubt any amount of links posted is going to disatisfy your penchant for basking in the sun rays emanating from Uncle Sam’s arse.

    Obviously the CIA played a pivotal role over several years in creating the climate for a coup & funding & coordinating its protagonists. In fact, it directly armed a small group with submachineguns who assassinated a Chilean general who was seen as an obstacle to the plotting. Many more such examples can be given, but I’m not wasting my time retyping pages of print.

    It’s not my perspective on this that’s shallow. I don’t wear blinkers. In fact, I wouldn’t mind betting that I’m better across actual global soviet attrocities than yourself.
    I just don’t think that fretting about maybe-commies is enough to support carte blanche foreign meddling & installation of more US friendly dictators.

  250. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 5:35 pm

    That’s exactly right, Kittylitter.

    I said it was his end point not his staring point, completely opposite of your view.

  251. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 18, 2012 5:45 pm

    That’s exactly my view Kittylitter.

    Toilet for one who claims to be across Soviet atrocities, you remain relatively silent on them.

  252. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 5:46 pm

    I just don’t think that fretting about maybe-commies is enough to support carte blanche foreign meddling & installation of more US friendly dictators.

    I think that when you view the entire world through the prism of capitalism, global markets in which you dominate, predatory us copyright, and superiority of race, everything you do and say is to protect those interests and dominance. Every fight becomes a fight against communism, even if the reality is different. It’s happening in australia now, and james seems to see it as capitalism vs communism, christianity vs islam, everything is in defence of protecting western world dominance. Note, that is different from any thoughts of peace and equality, it is dominance and superiority over all others. Anyone or any country who thinks differently is a threat.

  253. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 18, 2012 5:48 pm

    It is ok to agree with me, KL. You’ll note Toilet does on that point. He recognizes I was point scoring. Which I was. But he acknowledges the point.

  254. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 5:56 pm

    well, i’d like to see some evidence provided to support james’ assertions!

    … and are you an expert on Abbott’s brain functions? Because his actions and behaviour demsonstrate that Abbott has difficulty with logic and reasoning … (I can provide video evidence of Abbott’s lack of logic and reasoning, if you like?)

    the ‘amost a priest’, religious fundamentalism, social conservatism and contradictions displayed and exposed in different public statements and interviews would lead someone to believe that abbott has difficulty with logic and reasoning.

  255. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 6:07 pm

    for example, tony abbott says the greatest gift a woman can give to a man is her virginity.

    Not the entire person that she is and what she contributes through her being a thinking and feeling and doing, individual.

    Apparently women are just one big vagina and womb on legs.

    …That said, Tony Abbott’s faith – Christianity – has perhaps outdone all religions when it comes to confusing sex with sin, and layering it with guilt. Here virginity is so integral to virtue that the three most important figures in the Christian story – Jesus, Mary and Joseph –apparently remain virgins throughout their life. Illogical and nonsensical as that is, the insistence on the state of virginity as a marker of purity, integrity and worthiness still sends a powerful message to the eagerly faithful. Tony Abbott has bought it. I just hope his daughters see beyond it…

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/virginity-is-one-hell-of-a-gift-20100201-n75t.html#ixzz23snJnR7d

  256. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 6:11 pm

    It is ok to agree with me, KL

    no it’s not! 😆

  257. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 6:25 pm

    I suppose you’ve all received the email by now, which i thought was funny haha as well as funny clever.

    Blokes version of 50 shades of grey

  258. August 18, 2012 6:59 pm

    As with all colonial powers, they are a disaster to those they colonize.
    Aboriginals in Australia, Indian Nations of North + South America, etc.

    Trying to argue USSR is more/less `evil`/`dangerous` etc
    than the Yanks is an apples/oranges argument.

    What can be said, is Yanks interference in south america created the
    term `banana-republic`, not the USSR.

    The Yanks have definitely created combat/battles and sent troops
    into south america. Has the USSR done this?

  259. public toilet permalink
    August 18, 2012 7:09 pm

    The yanks are way bigger on the whole preemptive war/invasion/overthrow as their hegemoniacal right, than the USSR ever was.
    The insulting concept of manifest destiny is a repulsive feature of virtually all of their leaders.

    Btw, what exactly do you think I conceded, snacty?

    Having read back over the history in the last 24hrs has only reinforced my rusty recollections as having been correct. 🙂

  260. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 18, 2012 7:56 pm

    Just that wiki not the best source for accuracy.

    Your kidding if you think US worse than Russia. Czech Rep, Hungary, Latvia Lithuania, Georgia, Ukraine, Poland, Croatia, Macedonia, Serbia, Albania…. Etc etc

  261. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 8:55 pm

    Ashbygate 1: How Ashby met Slipper

    …According to these claims, it seems James Ashby broke off a sexual relationship with a 15-year-old boy — for a sexual relationship with another 15 year-old boy.

    Now, these claims must be tested in a court of law — but based on our information, they must be extremely credible. We can say this because, on the 3rd of August 2012, this publication received a telephone call from a senior ABC TV producer wanting to discuss our investigations into Jacksonville and Ashbygate. During the discussion, we asked the producer why such shows as 7.30 and Lateline had not sufficiently publicised the clear evidence of corruption demonstrated through our (then) 18 (now 20) investigative Jacksonville stories into the HSU saga, all of which were backed up by primary source documentary evidence, and none of which have been legally contested.

    The response from this ABC producer was that 7.30 and Lateline had been “eager” to do the stories, but needed to do their “due diligence”. After pressing, we were told that this meant, effectively, that they had been unable to gain sign-off from the ABC “legal department”. Of course, when asked what the actual legal impediment was to publicising primary source material, noting that I have legal training, and given we had published 18 stories without any legal action, the ABC producer seemed somewhat stumped…

    The only conclusion we can reach, therefore ― without reaching the almost unimaginable conclusion that Australia’s national broadcaster, the ABC, is a highly compromised organisation that, for opaque reasons, reports allegations against certain people, but not others …

  262. TB Queensland permalink
    August 18, 2012 9:07 pm

    Your kidding if you think US worse than Russia. Czech Rep, Hungary, Latvia Lithuania, Georgia, Ukraine, Poland, Croatia, Macedonia, Serbia, Albania…. Etc etc

    Yep, I agree, James … and anyone that thinks Russia is not a dictatorship in 2012 has got rocks in their head … it should be renamed … Putinland!

  263. public toilet permalink
    August 18, 2012 9:09 pm

    They have a well established doctrine of preemptive aggression under dubious justification, snacty, and they’ve repeatedly proven that they’re not afraid to use it. Particularly since the demise of the USSR, because now they are a superpower unchecked.

    I don’t deny that it would be shit to be a close neighbour sharing a border with Russia; but the USSR has been neutered globally for a couple of decades now.

  264. TB Queensland permalink
    August 18, 2012 9:14 pm

    Yep, I agree, James …

    … from someone who lived in the ’50’s in Europe* … yep, I was one of the kids who was “trained” in nuclear attacks on Engand (eg hide under the school desk … 🙄 ) and was exposed to the nightly on TV and radio news to the protest at US nuclear missile bases across the UK … while nothing happened (hindsight is always a wonderful thing to behold) … the fear was real … one of the reasons (to be trythful there was more than one) my parents emigrated in 1961 … by 1970 I was in the ADF as a Nasho …

    USA? Russia? The worst? All of the bastards! If governments wanty to go to fkn war let the politiciand fight the fkn thing!

    *both my parents were “frontline” troops in WWII …

  265. public toilet permalink
    August 18, 2012 9:15 pm

    I never said they were better, btw. Especially in terms of bodycount. I was referring to their methods & the comparative lengths of their tentacles.

    I’d have thought my earlier comments on the arrested female punk band confirm what I think of Putin’s Russia. The man has to be one of the most corrupt & dangerous leaders on the planet.

    Not sure why any of that excuses US intransigence?

  266. August 18, 2012 10:00 pm

    Thanks @dunny .. I could never remember what the yanks call
    their flavor of colonialism. Manifest Destiny. I had to look it
    up. Quite interesting.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny

  267. August 18, 2012 10:21 pm

    `Your kidding if you think US worse than Russia. Czech Rep,`
    @James-Nth-Melb

    You are both wrong + correct.
    To a Czech, behind/during Iron curtain, USSR is worse.

    To a Korean, Vietnamese, Iraqi, South-American or Afghani, in the appropriate time-slot, the yanks are worse.

  268. TB Queensland permalink
    August 18, 2012 10:36 pm

    Wot, 073, said … so there … ! 😛

  269. Cold war denialist permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:47 am

    ‘I just don’t think that fretting about maybe-commies is enough to support carte blanche foreign meddling & installation of more US friendly dictators.’

    In the context of the cold war it is easy to understand if not justify the US’s involvement against Soviet allies during a time when the Soviet Union was actively encouraging and assisting communist revolutions.

  270. Come the revolution permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:53 am

    ‘A communist revolution is a proletarian revolution inspired by the ideas of Marxism that aims to replace capitalism with communism, typically with socialism as an intermediate stage. The idea that a proletarian revolution is needed is a cornerstone of Marxism; Marxists believe that the workers of the world must unite and free themselves from capitalist oppression to create a world run by and for the working class. Thus, in the Marxist view, proletarian revolutions need to happen in countries all over the world’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_revolution

  271. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2012 9:27 am

    Marxism that aims to replace capitalism with communism …

    The old mismatch … of an economic system being replaced by a political system … still living in the past … we need to fix the busted combination (“democracy/capitalism”) we survive in now …

    Just as “socialism” and “communism” and the “command” system, as a “single concept”, haven’t worked neither has “democracy” and “capitalism” …

    At this moment in time only China has some semblance of a better system … a symbiosis of communism and capitalism …

    Democracy in the West has been corrupted by Robber Barons like Uncle Clivey … the USA is a literally controlled by billionaires … and although the House of Lords is no more, the House of Commons is anything but …

    As for capiltalism … just read the news for the last decade … a “high rollers” paradise at the expense of the little folk … and democracy is simply decadent!

    Travel to Europe and the USA and you will literally see and hear the “crumbling of our society” as it sinks into history …

    In fact we have never had a true democracy as pure as the original Greek concept …

  272. Vlad the inhaler permalink
    August 19, 2012 9:31 am

    ‘To Putin, Western leaders may seem weak because they routinely tolerate the most outrageous insults and vicious attacks. But they are really demonstrating the strength that lies in democratic processes . . . Only corrupt dictatorial leaders have grounds to fear the complaints of their citizens. Putin is the archetypal strongman — shielded by security forces and afraid of people armed with nothing but guitars and truth.’

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chapman/chi-putin-vs-pussy-riot-20120817,0,3729961.column

  273. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 19, 2012 9:41 am

    Here we go again with the same discussion and the refusal of some to accept human nature for what it is. Another reminder…

  274. Sino File permalink
    August 19, 2012 9:53 am

    ‘At this moment in time only China has some semblance of a better system … a symbiosis of communism and capitalism …’

    Better by what measure? Human rights? The environment? Or perhaps you’d rather Chinese people survive in an economy than live in a society. 😉

  275. August 19, 2012 10:01 am

    True ToSY, the environment in China is woeful, to the point that the peasants are (almost) revolting. However at least they can all afford flat screen TVs now.

  276. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 10:08 am

    Hello reb. Hope you had a pleasant flight.

  277. August 19, 2012 10:13 am

    Hi Tony,

    Yes thanks. It’s lovely here in Penang. I’ve just been for a swim downstairs and now having a coffee.. Will be heading into Georgetown in an hour or so.

    It’s “hungry ghost” festival here at the moment, so lots of things going on….

    http://www.emsasia.org/portfolio/hungry-ghost-festival-17-august-2012-15-september-2012/

  278. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2012 10:16 am

    … to the point that the peasants are (almost) revolting

    As they are in Greece, Spain, Italy … don’t you blokes understand the term “some semblance”?

    Maybe the godbotherers are right? (We’ve a few around now to ask 🙂 )

    Whatsisname wipes the slate clean every so often and starts again – The Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah …

  279. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 10:18 am

    Hungry ghost looks good. Meanwhile in Melbourne it’s going to reach a balmy 15 degrees with showers. 😐

  280. August 19, 2012 10:23 am

    It could be worse Tony.

    You could be in Queensland!

    😉

  281. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 10:35 am

    😉

  282. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 19, 2012 11:23 am

    ’JULIA Gillard left her job as a partner with law firm Slater & Gordon as a direct result of a secret internal probe in 1995 into controversial work she had done for her then boyfriend, a union boss accused of corruption, The Weekend Australian can reveal. 


    Nick Styant-Browne, a former equity partner of the firm, broke a 17-year silence yesterday to reveal that the firm’s probe included a confidential formal interview with the Prime Minister – then an industrial lawyer – on September 11, 1995, which was “recorded and transcribed”. 
In the interview, Ms Gillard stated that she could not categorically rule out that she had personally benefited from union funds in the renovation of her Melbourne house, according to Mr Styant-Browne. 


    She said in the interview that she believed she had paid for all the work and materials, and had receipts, which she later produced. 
The firm’s probe revolved around Ms Gillard’s work since mid-1992 for the Australian Workers Union and her then boyfriend – the AWU’s ambitious leader at the time, Bruce Wilson – as well as her direct role in establishing the AWU Workplace Reform Association for Mr Wilson. 



    Mr Styant-Browne’s revelations today mark the first time that anyone among the former and present partners of her employer before she started her political career has spoken on the record about matters that have controversially dogged Ms Gillard since 1995”

    

Gillard is going to be forced to address the issues she has carefully avoided. 

Thomson won’t go away either, it’s only in a hiatus.

    It’s all grim for Gillard.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/investigations/revealed-julia-gillard-lost-her-job-after-law-firms-secret-investigation/story-fn6tcxar-1226452973559

  283. August 19, 2012 12:43 pm

    “In the context of the cold war it is easy to understand if not justify the US’s involvement against Soviet allies during a time when the Soviet Union was actively encouraging and assisting communist revolutions.”

    Yes, but the extent to which some of the targetted countries were actually soviet allies is debatable. Often enough, US interferences pushed some of those South American countries towards the soviets; the enemy of my enemy is my ally, so to speak. Generally, what first brought US animosity down upon them was a move to impede large US companies, ala United Fruit, & any talk of nationalising such companies (which were usually plundering a poor nation’s resources but exporting the profits, not benefitting the locals) is what started the clamour of “commie, commie, commie!” & inferences that the USSR was behind it (more often than not it wasn’t .

    A modern day corollary is the precedent set by invading & occupying a nation because of ‘maybe-WMD’s’…it worked, & they’ve long been doing the ground work to justify action against Iran with the same kind of indefinite aspersions. It doesn’t matter that there are no WMD’s, you only need to get your enthusiasts thinking that there might be.
    It allows for rearguard apologetics after the fact, when the damage is already done.
    They get to say…”but, but, but, if we didn’t interfere covertly here or invade there then the USSR would’ve gotten a toehold on the continent/Iraq would’ve turned US cities into mushroom clouds!”…
    What crap. Definitely not good enough justifications for what, in all cases, turned out to be bloody & unnecessary conflicts/regime changes, forced upon the civilian population by US whims & fears. Probably good enough for those who’d allow them a free hand to maintain supremacy.
    The religious crackpots in Iran today are there as a direct result of US/British/CIA orchestrated coup in the 50’s against, you guessed it, a democratic leader who made moves to break the stranglehold of British Petroleum on his nation’s oil reserves. Prior to the overthrow, which installed the despotic Shah, Iran was considered to be enlightened & moderate for the region. Such things are tolerated until they impinge on US interests & then only a controllable dictator who keeps the ungrateful plebs in line with an iron fist will do. Democracy promotion? nuh-uh.
    The same sort of jumping at shadows & maybes had them invading South Vietnam after confecting the Gulf of Tonkin.

    So, in essence, blaming the maybe-commies gives all you enthusiasts a bone to hold onto & retroactively justify whatever the hell the US sets out to do.

    Cold War denier my arse. I’d have thought a libertarian could see why individuals in far off sovereign nations shouldn’t be susceptible to the dubious arbitrations of the US (or USSR or anyone else) upon who is best to govern them & exploit their national bounties.

    It is a good thing that all of the rhetorical paving was done for youze, because it means that you never have to think outside of “They deserved it because they might’ve been communicating with the soviets & if we let it go who knows where it might end up”.

  284. August 19, 2012 12:47 pm

    Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras…

  285. August 19, 2012 1:08 pm

    “Nick Styant-Browne“ .. It will be interesting what other outlets say on this. .. I am surprised “distrusted-sources“ didn`t put this outside the pay-wall for their culture war. .. I will watch. @Tom-of-Melb

  286. Takeover target permalink
    August 19, 2012 1:19 pm

    “Generally, what first brought US animosity down upon them was a move to impede large US companies, ala United Fruit, & any talk of nationalising such companies (which were usually plundering a poor nation’s resources but exporting the profits, not benefitting the locals)”

    I love this one. It’s a common accusation from “the left” that foreign companies are exploiting resources and labour in third-world countries. For any resources “plundered” these companies pay a price agreed by both parties to the transaction. If the transaction isn’t mutually beneficial it doesn’t take place. Same goes for labour. No one forces anyone to work for these foreign companies, and yet plenty of local workers all over the world choose to do so.

    Why on earth would any of these companies or their governments get upset if a host country threatened to confiscate (“nationalise”) their businesses?

  287. Nuclear figment permalink
    August 19, 2012 1:30 pm

    ‘A modern day corollary is the precedent set by invading & occupying a nation because of ‘maybe-WMD’s’…it worked, & they’ve long been doing the ground work to justify action against Iran with the same kind of indefinite aspersions. It doesn’t matter that there are no WMD’s, you only need to get your enthusiasts thinking that there might be.’

    So there was no nuclear arms race then?

  288. Bay of pigs arse permalink
    August 19, 2012 1:35 pm

    ‘They get to say…”but, but, but, if we didn’t interfere covertly here or invade there then the USSR would’ve gotten a toehold on the continent/Iraq would’ve turned US cities into mushroom clouds!”…
    What crap.’

    Yeah, crap.

  289. August 19, 2012 1:39 pm

    @Aug19, @12.43pm .. @dunny .. Great rant, and couldn`t agree more.

  290. What Soviets? permalink
    August 19, 2012 1:48 pm

    “Guatemala”

    ‘Nationalist movements in some countries and regions, notably Guatemala, Indonesia and Indochina were often allied with communist groups, or perceived in the West to be allied with communists. In this context, the United States and the Soviet Union increasingly competed for influence by proxy in the Third World as decolonization gained momentum in the 1950s and early 1960s; additionally, the Soviets saw continuing losses by imperial powers as presaging the eventual victory of their ideology. Both sides were selling armaments to gain influence.’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War#Crisis_and_escalation_.281953.E2.80.9362.29

    “Nicaragua”

    ‘Although President Jimmy Carter tried to place another limit on the arms race with a SALT II agreement in 1979, his efforts were undermined by the other events that year, including the Iranian Revolution and the KGB-backed Nicaraguan Revolution, which both ousted pro-US regimes, and his retaliation against Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in December.’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War#Confrontation_through_d.C3.A9tente_.281962.E2.80.9379.29

  291. August 19, 2012 2:15 pm

    @what-soviets? .. So rebelions seek aid from other powers to oust current colonial powers. No surprise here. Vietnam sought and received backing from China to oust French occupation and then keep yank forces out. Note, Vietnam had fended off China invasions for centuries, but China didn`t want the yanks as neighbors either.

    Korea Ditto.

  292. August 19, 2012 2:24 pm

    Not surprised that you failed to get the point, Tony. Nice sidesteps.

    “…or perceived in the West to be allied with communists…”

    …isn’t the same as ‘rock solid accomplices of the USSR’; but, whatever. I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind.

    As for the foreign companies exploiting the 3rd world, perhaps this is fine with you, but it wasn’t so tolerable for the populations of those countries; how amazing.
    Go read up on United Fruit & some of the others & tell me why what they were doing was fair & welcome.

  293. August 19, 2012 2:27 pm

    “So there was no nuclear arms race then?”

    Yeah, because I meant that Iraq was part of the Cold War…. 🙄 …not.

    I was comparing the different boogeymen in the different eras used in a similar way, but I suspect you are deliberately misinterpreting.

  294. August 19, 2012 2:29 pm

    Rather than leftist slander, perhaps criticism of some of the US’ more questionable foreign interventions comes about because, well, they were fkn questionable & only justifiable to enthusiasts.

  295. Watermelons permalink
    August 19, 2012 2:48 pm

    Or, just maybe, some of the criticism of the US has its roots with western Marxists and supporters during the cold war of the Soviet Union. I’m not saying this is where you’re coming from, but many of the same arguments – probably used in some of the books you’ve read – were developed during that time. (You don’t need to look far for them. Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon is one.)

  296. Watermelons permalink
    August 19, 2012 2:51 pm

    (If you click the third link on this page you shouldn’t need a subscription.)

  297. Banana rep permalink
    August 19, 2012 3:01 pm

    ‘Criticism of the United Fruit Company became a staple of the discourse of the communist parties in several Latin American countries, where its activities were often interpreted as illustrating Vladimir Lenin’s theory of capitalist imperialism. Major left-wing writers in Latin America, such as Carlos Luis Fallas of Costa Rica, Ramón Amaya Amador of Honduras, Miguel Ángel Asturias and Augusto Monterroso of Guatemala, Gabriel García Márquez of Colombia, and Pablo Neruda of Chile, denounced the Company in their literature. . . “Most accounts about the banana company have also failed to describe the significant contribution that United Fruit made to Guatemala’s human and economic development. In addition to providing employment to tens of thousands of workers and paying them the nation’s best rural wages, the Company also offered its employees excellent medical care, rent-free housing, and six years of free schooling for countless children. By clearing and draining thousands of acres of jungle that are today among the coproductive farm lands, United Fruit converted Guatemala into a major banana producer, thereby ending the country’s unhealthy dependence on its exports of coffee. The Company’s pioneering work in eliminating malaria and other tropical diseases early in the 20th century also demonstrated that Guatemala’s sparsely inhabited coastal areas offered rich, previously unexploited agricultural zones. Ultimately, the taxes and salaries that the United Fruit Company paid, and the millions of dollars of foreign exchange earnings that it annually generated, impacted in an important way on Guatemala’s economy.”‘

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company#Reputation

  298. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 19, 2012 3:04 pm

    Just to be clear, my original point was about Ecuador. US-Ecuador relations have been fine, as I understand it, over the years. Until recently.

    One of the things that stuffed the relationship was a leaked cable which accused the President of corruption (nice one, Assange). The other was Correa ending cooperation on stopping the drug trade.

    No US interference in military coups, nothing like that. Just pure, simple leftie hatred.

  299. Real WMDs permalink
    August 19, 2012 3:12 pm

    ‘I was comparing the different boogeymen in the different eras used in a similar way, but I suspect you are deliberately misinterpreting.’

    My point is that what occurred during the cold war has to be viewed in its historical context, which is not like Iraq and WMDs.

  300. public toilet permalink
    August 19, 2012 3:13 pm

    Yep, but you can bet your jewels that Ecuador’s in the crosshairs for a bit of subterfuge now, after thumbing its nose at the big boys with regard to Assange.

    Anyone proud of Australia’s shirking the issue?

  301. public toilet permalink
    August 19, 2012 3:15 pm

    With regard to Iraq, I was highlighting the memes used for justifying incursion. Any meme will do, as long as there is one. Credibility of meme is irrelevant.

  302. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 3:17 pm

    ‘Anyone proud of Australia’s shirking the issue?’

    What would you have our government do, exactly?

  303. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 3:20 pm

    ‘Credibility of meme is irrelevant.’

    Someone who always takes the anti-US side on everything would say that, wouldn’t they?

  304. August 19, 2012 3:38 pm

    “.Someone who always takes the anti-US side on everything would say that, wouldn’t they?.“

    Why do people that say this type of stuff not ask themselves,

    Why should we listen or believe KNOWN LIARS and KNOWN WARLORDS out only for their own benefit?

  305. public toilet permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:13 pm

    I could play the…”you would say that…”…game too. But it would be tedious on a mobile device!

    Fact is, the US interfered in those sovereign states for purposes of protection of its own political & economic benefit, with bloody results. It was not to benefit or liberate the civilians of said states. It was to remove governments which those civilians had elected on their behalf, that just happened to run contrary to US interests.
    For this reason, among others, it is unsurprising that many South American countries harbour deep mistrust & cold relations with the United States.

    Do you dispute this?

  306. public toilet permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:20 pm

    I expect the Australian government to publicly seek a public guarantee from the US that if Assange goes to Sweden he will not be extradited to the US from there.
    Not that I’d place much stock in their guarantee, but if they’re forced to do it on the record internationally then they’re slightly less likely to pull some cute shit to get him extraordinarily rendered.

    Our government won’t do this because they are nervous US supplicants.

  307. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:22 pm

    What would you have our government do, exactly?

    Keep assange safe here, he has broken no australian laws, and if he needs to go to sweden, ensure there is an agreement in place that he be returned here. To actually fight for his right to protection as an australian citizen not to be persecuted and victimised by the us and it’s corporates, seeing he has broken no us laws.

    Stop the smarmy behind the scenes kiss arse and defend the man whether you agree with what he did or not. Don’t allow trumped up charges to be brought after the fact so that one man is made an example of and the us feels less aggrieved.

    You know, just as the us does when any of their soldiers and hired guns are caught doing criminal deeds overseas.

  308. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:38 pm

    ‘Fact is, the US interfered in those sovereign states for purposes of protection of its own political & economic benefit, with bloody results.’

    I can see why Sancty gets frustrated 😉 . They were fighting a cold war with the Soviet Union – which was doing similar things. I agree that in an ideal world governments should not interfere with other sovereign governments, especially popularly elected ones. But, like it or not, the US was competing with the Soviet Union (whose mission it was to spread communism by all means available) for influence in these states. That’s the historical context I keep referring to.

  309. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:38 pm

    Sweden has apparently made a habit of visiting other European countries to conduct investigations. This is exactly what Assange has offered to do.

    He also remained in Sweden for 6 weeks following the complaint, and only left when the police advised that they were not proceeding with charges.

    In these circumstances it is entirely reasonable that he (and the government if they had any sense of protection of citizens) seek a guarantee that he won’t be extradited to the USA.

    It’s a disgrace, and I’ll be throwing rocks at consulates and embassies if there’s an attempt to extradite him to USA.

  310. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:39 pm

    ‘I expect the Australian government to publicly seek a public guarantee from the US that if Assange goes to Sweden he will not be extradited to the US from there.’

    I’d go along with that.

  311. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:44 pm

    ‘It was to remove governments which those civilians had elected on their behalf’

    Some were elected by civilians, some weren’t. The Soviets weren’t above facilitating coups and revolutions either.

  312. August 19, 2012 4:59 pm

    It is interesting to notice some people worry about Assange leaking the `collateral-murder` video, but the same people don`t seem to worry about the reporters murdered in it, or the man who tried to take the shot-up reporter to hospital, or his children in his van, also shot-up by the yanks. Assange is the great danger?

  313. August 19, 2012 5:06 pm

    But didn’t Julia announce that Assange had been guilty of criminal conduct? Surely that should be sufficient to have him sent to the gallows….

  314. public toilet permalink
    August 19, 2012 5:19 pm

    Should any superpower be free to project its interests, covertly or overtly, into ‘lesser’ nations not on its borders & which pose no verifiable existential threat to it?

    I don’t think so. You two think that’s fine, for one favorite superpower, apparently.

    Sancty gets frustrated (if indeed he is) because I’m not acting like a mentally conquered subordinate…& because my reasoning isn’t outrightly dismissable without being utterly blinkered.

    The USSR wasn’t proactively involved in Chile. The US was. At best, the US got played by powerful business interests with personal ties to high level administration identities (who are known & can be named). Those powerful business men are the ones who knew that pushing the ‘commie button’ would get Kissinger & then Nixon to firstly take notice (where they’d previously been ambivalent) & then take action. None of this is in doubt.

  315. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 5:26 pm

    ‘None of this is in doubt.’

    That might be the silliest thing you’ve said all day.

  316. Seeds of doubt permalink
    August 19, 2012 5:39 pm

    ‘Now that twenty-five years have elapsed since the end of the
    convulsed period that culminated with the military coup in 1973, we have
    evidence that both the United States and the Soviet Union played
    significant roles in Chile. Moreover, this was neither the work of chance nor the design of megalomaniac conspirators, but part of a struggle in which all the forces of the country were committed. This international confrontation was part and parcel of the domestic intellectual and political confrontation.

    ‘Leaving aside other aspects and dimensions of the complex Chilean
    political conflict of the decade 1963-1973, and which of course are
    important, the following reflections focus exclusively on the economic
    contributions and the analyses of external collaborators such as United
    States and the Soviet Union.

    ‘The struggle for power in Chile, one way or another, was influenced
    by the Cold War. It has to be admitted that Chile was only a small isolated and far-away country, but it was one of the scenarios where two worldviews confronted each other, where the persuasive forces of the two great powers of that time were measured. The national political struggle had international connotations and implications.’

    ARTURO FONTAINE TALAVERA. Licenciado in Philosophy, University of Chile, M. Phil. and M. A. in Philosophy, Columbia University. Professor at the Catholic University of Chile, Director of the Centro de Estudios Públicos.

    PDF: http://www.cepchile.cl/dms/archivo_1144_302/rev72_fontaine_ing.pdf

  317. August 19, 2012 5:49 pm

    John W Howard`s regime declared Habib and Hicks guilty of something too. They ended up in Gitmo being tortured by the yanks. This is what bothers Assange watchers. On the bright side, we can see clearly the difference between the John-W Howard regime and the Joolya regime when it comes to crawling to the yanks.

  318. Individual vs collective permalink
    August 19, 2012 6:01 pm

    ‘I’d have thought a libertarian could see why individuals in far off sovereign nations shouldn’t be susceptible to the dubious arbitrations of the US (or USSR or anyone else) upon who is best to govern them & exploit their national bounties.’

    Libertarianism is the antithesis of communism. It stands for individualism, not collectivism. It stands for free markets, freedom of speech and expression, freedom of religion, and freedom to do just about anything you want so long as you don’t interfere with others’ freedoms. Communism does not. Whether the US should have treated the Soviets and their ideology as a serious threat to freedom, and whether they should have tried to keep what influence they had in their region, you need to consider the historical context to work that out.

  319. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2012 6:30 pm

    It has to be admitted that Chile was only a small isolated and far-away country

    Do you think the largest copper mine/deposits in the world had any influence?

    Libertarianism is the antithesis of communism. It stands for individualism, not collectivism. It stands for free markets, freedom of speech and expression, freedom of religion, and freedom to do just about anything you want so long as you don’t interfere with others’ freedoms. Communism does not.

    I agree with that, ToSY …

    There is an “however”, however …

    … as you state: “Libertarianism is the antithesis of communism” …

    … they are both extremes and in fact exclusive one to the other … we need to find a common ground to satisfy all people (hence my remark earlier re China and symbiosis) … not just the few that want to control the show …

  320. August 19, 2012 6:31 pm

    Bullshit. Libertarianism is dressed-up Fascism, nothing more. Trickle-Down Tea-Baggers too damn stupid to realize that Health-Care is NOT a communist plot.

  321. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2012 6:46 pm

    730 …

    … ToSY, will respond to reasoned argument much better than emotional reaction (sometimes) …

    … don’t worry in his own way he’s just as one eyed as ToM, Wally, James, Noddy Neil the list goes on …

  322. el gordo permalink
    August 19, 2012 6:47 pm

    Just got back from Sydney, glorious weather.

    ‘It’s all grim for Gillard.’

    I predict an October Revolution.

  323. August 19, 2012 7:14 pm

    TV, 9.30pm on Sbs1, I am going to watch this Michael Moore show tonight. I want to see what a “commie“ looks like. They`re trying to bring us all down with their “health-care“ ideology doncha`no.

  324. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2012 7:21 pm

    They`re trying to bring us all down with their “health-care“ ideology doncha`no.

    Like I said, 370, the USA is sick (in more ways than one) … New Orleans is still a tragedy! …

    But trying to say one system is better than the other is, frankly, stupid!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I predict an October Revolution.

    Yeah! Like your March, April, May, June, July, August, September … predictions … one month you’ll crack it, egg … pun definitely intended!

  325. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:00 pm

    A congo line of suckholes – latham at least told the truth in regard to toadying to the us.

    …Libertarianism is the antithesis of communism…

    …freedom to do just about anything you want so long as you don’t interfere with others’ freedoms…

    but you do, discrimination, oppression and exploition most certainly interferes with the individual, equal freedom of others.

    capitalism delivers inequality and unequal rewards for productive effort.

    libertarianism is anarchy for the wealthy libertarianism is an extremist ideology.

  326. el gordo permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:02 pm

    Admittedly my predictions have been awry, the political mind is hard to work out, so I’m basing the October Coup on astrology alone.

  327. Loony toons permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:09 pm

    ‘libertarianism is an extremist ideology’

    And you’ve got cartoons and everything. 😉

  328. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:31 pm

    And you’ve got cartoons and everything.

    And here’s me thinking you could argue your point … disappointment … can’t can you … ’cause it’s as exteme as communism and you know it (deeeeeep down) …

    Anything that hurts the ordinary folk is wrong, bad and plain ugly whether you are an extreme commo or an extreme Robber Baron … either way its governed by greed and a need to control and exploit the beauty of people in general …

  329. public toilet permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:37 pm

    But people are ugly…

  330. Extreme freedom permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:52 pm

    Of course it’s extremist, compared to the normal state of affairs, but not in the way the accusers think.

    As to whether it “hurts the ordinary folk”, well you wouldn’t know. It’s never been tried as a way of organising society. Its an ideology, a political philosophy.

    Individuals, however, can use its principles to guide the way they live. That can’t hurt others because under libertarianism you don’t interfere with other peoples rights.

    By the way, to me libertarianism makes perfect sense. But to “you people” it makes me an extremist.

    http://www.libertarianism.org/introduction

  331. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 9:27 pm

    And you’ve got cartoons and everything

    i have no idea what is meant by that, can’t understand how it relates to your extreme capitalist belief or my comment.

  332. Missing links permalink
    August 19, 2012 9:35 pm

    Your linked to cartoons, did you not? They were the only supporting evidence I could find for your assertions.

  333. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 11:01 pm

    oh, you wanted evidence?

    Individuals, however, can use its principles to guide the way they live. That can’t hurt others because under libertarianism you don’t interfere with other peoples rights.

    you keep saying that tony but it is patently untrue. other people are hurt every day in every way.
    equality? human rights?

    This bastardised libertarianism makes ‘freedom’ an instrument of oppression

    …As Berlin noted: “No man’s activity is so completely private as never to obstruct the lives of others in any way. ‘Freedom for the pike is death for the minnows’.” So, he argued, some people’s freedom must sometimes be curtailed “to secure the freedom of others”. In other words, your freedom to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. The negative freedom not to have our noses punched is the freedom that green and social justice campaigns, exemplified by the Occupy movement, exist to defend…

    Berlin also shows that freedom can intrude on other values, such as justice, equality or human happiness…

    …Modern libertarianism is the disguise adopted by those who wish to exploit without restraint. It pretends that only the state intrudes on our liberties. It ignores the role of banks, corporations and the rich in making us less free. It denies the need for the state to curb them in order to protect the freedoms of weaker people. This bastardised, one-eyed philosophy is a con trick, whose promoters attempt to wrongfoot justice by pitching it against liberty. By this means they have turned “freedom” into an instrument of oppression…

    It seems to me that libertarianism is the personification of extreme greed and selfishness under the pretence of personal freedom, these people want everything at no cost to themselves.

    [liberapaedia] “If rich people want to do something it’s okay, but if you want to oppose rich people, it’s not.”

  334. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 11:20 pm

    Libertarianism in One Lesson 😉

    One of the most attractive features of libertarianism is that it is basically a very simple ideology. Maybe even simpler than Marxism, since you don’t have to learn foreign words like “proletariat”.

    This brief outline will give you most of the tools you need to hit the ground running as a freshly indoctrinated libertarian ideologue. Go forth and proselytize!

  335. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 20, 2012 12:00 am

    “Abbott: I’ll revive Howard’s golden age”

    Date August 19, 2012

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-ill-revive-howards-golden-age-20120818-24f31.html#ixzz2401GFmTP

    What is this howard revival?

    Is it a testing of the waters of public opinion and will it be dropped very quickly if polling suggests that people think “we’ve already had life under howard’s way once, got sick of it and dumped him”.

    Have the opposition never accepted defeat, do they refuse to believe that the public could vote them out of office? Is it a testing the waters of public opinion to see if the public wants howard again?

    Is it an attempt to try and bolster abbott’s low personal polling?

    What do others here think?

  336. August 20, 2012 12:30 am

    I think that Abbott should remind voters of the links between he & Howard, regularly. Bound to work a treat for him…snigger.

  337. August 20, 2012 12:31 am

    More on The Great Satan after sleep.

  338. August 20, 2012 1:08 am

    “On the bright side, we can see clearly the difference between the John-W Howard regime and the Joolya regime when it comes to crawling to the yanks.”

    Chuckle.

    🙂

  339. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 7:42 am

    Michael Duffy earlier this year…

    ”Something people tend to forget is that being critical of the government is not just negativity. It’s also a vital part of our adversarial system, which seeks to get closer to the truth through public debate.”

    true dat

  340. August 20, 2012 9:54 am

    The USSR wasn’t proactively involved in Chile.

    The USSR funded Allende’s election.

  341. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 20, 2012 12:56 pm

    ”Something people tend to forget is that being critical of the government is not just negativity. It’s also a vital part of our adversarial system, which seeks to get closer to the truth through public debate.”

    As long as the truth is ‘filtered’ through the government or the opposition, can’t have others spoiling the party eg wikileaks

  342. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 1:00 pm

    Apologies and correction…the quote above is Christopher Pearson, a newspaper columnist and old friend of Abbott… not Michael Duffy.

    good afternoon kitty

  343. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 20, 2012 1:17 pm

    hi there eg

    short stay though, i’m off out shortly

    we must have the joint to ourselves, everyone else hard at work, a couple of days off for me.

  344. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 20, 2012 2:18 pm

    Here is a reasonable take on Assange

    When people compare you [Assange] to Jesus, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela and Jason Bourne, when Time magazine bows down before you, when the entire Left does the secular equivalent of giving you a Magdalene-style foot-rub, when the Guardian’s best-known reporter promises to “put you on the moral highground, so high”, you are going to turn into a twat. It’s just inevitable. Treat someone like a Messiah and they will behave like one: all-powerful and invincible and never deigning to speak to mere men of the law or other worldly pursuits. And thus was a conspiracy theorist from Down Under turned by an educated cheering mob into a modern-day Moses. Assange is an annoyance of the liberal media’s making.

  345. public toilet permalink
    August 20, 2012 3:58 pm

    I’m glad he’s pissing off people who tend to blame all of the world’s problems on the ‘left’, among others (hi, teebee). Tells me wikileaks is on the right track.

    As always, this is about whistleblowing, not Assange. Opponents continually try to smear the principle by welding it onto the ego of one individual.

    Have him go to Sweden, fair enough, but why won’t the US guarantee not to extradite him if he does?

  346. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 20, 2012 4:03 pm

    There should be more exosure of the doubledealing and hyocrisy of governments – not less.

  347. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 20, 2012 4:27 pm

    I have a lot more sympathy for this guy than for Assange.

  348. August 20, 2012 4:41 pm

    I agree that there should be more exposure of the dealings of governments. Despite appearances, I take a pretty cynical view of the foreign policy conduct of the larger states, and their treatment of smaller states as pawns on a chess board. The one that offends me most is West Papua.

    But there’s another level that Assange took it to which goes beyond whistleblowing. It’s the release of information that put good people in serious danger. To take it to a local context, it would be like someone releasing the address of a protected witness in a gangland case.

    Should he be tried and convicted for that? Probably not. I don’t know the law on it. Should he be tried for the rape allegations? Absofknlutely! Should his supporters get a bit of a handle on the difference? Yes.

  349. public toilet permalink
    August 20, 2012 4:58 pm

    Pretty sure I have a handle on it. And I’m not his supporter. I can’t really help it if sections of the celebrity left go all mushy for the guy. I’m not guilty by association.

  350. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2012 5:12 pm

    The one that offends me most is West Papua.

    … we do agree on some thinmgs, James, WP should be part of Papua New Guinea … not Indonesia … colonialism in the 21st Century is obscene …

    And I agree on your take re Assange … the possible “bad” outcomes far outweigh the possible “good” outcomes … whatever the “good” are? Happy to be elightened … 🙂

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    sp,

    He indicated that he would be willing to plead guilty to a breach of Australian copyright law, which meant he could serve time in Australia.

    USA and Australia are signatories to the Beirne Convention a reciprocal understanding of intellectual property rights so I’m not sure how the above actually works … I did a lot of research and spoke to Copyright Australia on a number of occasions about rights of ownership … **

    … I confess to using the occasional Youtube “crack” over the last decade or so … but, yes, the long finger of USA “law” encroaching into other countries has been a “bother’ for some years … one for them, one for us laws … the Yank who committed murder on the Barrier Reef was extradited pretty quickly to the US and he was released and the crime was here … as the Yanks say, go figure … naieve and arrogant sums up many Yanks I’ve met …

    ** … (I own a lot of training IP and have had occasion to “challenge” its use overseas by employees of multi nationals … apologies all round on three occasions … and an American training manager – who’d attended my program here – was dismissed immediately, I later went to the US and South America and delivered the same progam ) …

  351. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2012 5:13 pm

    Buggered up the blockquote AGAIN! finishes after “Australia” first para …

  352. August 20, 2012 5:15 pm

    You are definitely right about Hew Griffiths, splatter.

    More evidence that the Australian government is a doormat of the US & its corporate interests; as if any was needed.

  353. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2012 5:23 pm

    Yep, Griffith could have been charged and stood trial here (reciprocal IP laws) … but the US wanted a “victim” and John Howard & The Private School Bullies helped them …

  354. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 20, 2012 8:14 pm

    I have a lot more sympathy for this guy than for Assange.

    Don’t worry assange has done some gaol time before.

    I really feel for him and his family. I wish someone had taken up his cause as well. Only trouble is, australians have become so judgemental, so hardarsed and such corporate lackeys themselves, there probably wouldn’t have been much public sympathy for him. Everyone would be saying “serves himself right”, rather then question whether the law is wrong or wrongly applied. Certainly shouldn’t be allowing our people to be handed over to another country like that for a crime where no-one was harmed. Griffiths will get more gaol time than a murderer.

    I reject the argument that assange has endagered people’s lives too, did assange send the soldiers off to war? Was assange doing the double dealing etc. These days a ham sandwich order is made out to be a national security concern. Accepting the excuses they make to justify their double dealing only ensures that it will flourish. The only way to stop the rot is to expose it and expose those who practise it.

    Australian politicians are completely gutless and that is the reason that people ike assange should be fiercely protected. The gutlessness, double dealing and dishonesty of politicians and governments should be exposed and should be banished from existence. Assange has more guts than any of them in the face of enormous global pressures.

    Having said that, the sexual assault matter needs to be cleared up, but even that now seems to have been politicised, it was always the way they had to ‘get him’.

    How many of you would have folded by now with the governments of the world out to get you, the giant corporations colluding and ganging up to destroy you, anyone would think he’s osama bin laden. He has actually broken no us or australian laws, committed no terrorist act. Embarrassing politicians and exposing corporate malpractice is not terrorism, the treason and betrayal has been committed by them on us.

    More evidence that the Australian government is a doormat of the US & its corporate interests; as if any was needed.

    This predatory copyrighting of the corporations angers me, it is lazy, they expect money to just land in their laps with very little effort. I resent not being able to pass on to friends or others, something that I have bought. If we can never own something then it should only cost $1 to buy IMO. The slimy tentacles of the us corps are in everything, they want easy money for no effort, especially with digital downloads. No wonder new talent are promoting themselves on the web, at least the money goes to them and not the corporate leeches.

    How many australian businesses make money through distributing a product, actually doing nothing to warrant the extra 75-100% that is added to the global product? The consumer got globalised and these same people continue to expect their easy money to be protected. We should be able to buy direct from OS if we want, without any $ getting creamed off to some company here who adds nothing to the process.

    It’s time we all stood up to be counted on these issues, make it an election issue or something.

    *end of rant*

  355. August 20, 2012 10:42 pm

    Bravo, KL. 🙂

    Strongly agree!

  356. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 10:44 pm

    I also agree with Kitty about Assange.

  357. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 21, 2012 9:32 am

    Whether or not Assange’s leaks caused anyone to be killed, you have to wonder what sort of narcissist would say: “1,300 people were eventually killed, and 350,000 were displaced. That was a result of our leak,”.

    At least Sarah Hanson-Young had a tinge of regret in her voice when she told us “tragedies happen, accidents happen” in relation to the refugees her policies killed.

  358. May 3, 2013 1:13 pm

    Helpful information. Fortunate me I found your web site by accident, and I’m stunned why this coincidence didn’t took place earlier!
    I bookmarked it.

  359. Ol' Sancty permalink
    May 3, 2013 1:37 pm

    Hi Yaz.

Go on say something, you'll feel better...

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: