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Gillard to reopen Nauru as Govt’s Malaysia Swap deal is Dumped.

August 13, 2012

Julia Gillard’s credibility has taken yet another battering as the report into the handling of asylum seekers handed down today by former Defence Force chief Angus Houston found that Labor’s so-called “Malaysian solution” should not be implemented until such time as further safeguards and protections are in place.

Julia Gillard and Immigration Minister Chris Bowen had previously touted their “Malaysia Solution” as a superior alternative to the Opposition’s proposed Nauru solution.

After more than a year of clinging to the deal and refusing to adopt Nauru without the Malaysia people swap arrangement, Julia Gillard has now decided to reinstate the Howard government policy of opening processing centres in Nauru and Manus Island in Papua New Guinea.

There are 22 recommendations in the report, including one that suggests the humanitarian intake should be raised to 20,000, and then to 27,000 thereafter.

However, the Greens have already indicated that they will not be supporting the offshore processing centres on Nauru and Manus Island slamming it as a return to the “bad old days” of the Howard government.

The humanitarian intake will also be raised to 20,000, and the policy of “Family reunion” for boat arrivals will be scrapped.

 

 

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135 Comments leave one →
  1. August 13, 2012 5:47 pm

    The full report is here…

    http://expertpanelonasylumseekers.dpmc.gov.au/report

  2. JAWS permalink
    August 13, 2012 6:01 pm

    “……….and the policy of “Family reunion” for boat arrivals will be scrapped.”

    And that’s essential

  3. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 13, 2012 6:11 pm

    “……….and the policy of “Family reunion” for boat arrivals will be scrapped.”

    I thought we scuppered the arriving boats!

  4. August 13, 2012 6:28 pm

    It will be interesting to see what happens in Parliament tomorrow.

    If the Coalition refuse to accept the recommendations, it will look like they’re blocking their own policies.

    T’will be interesting…..

  5. August 13, 2012 6:42 pm

    Well that WTFs tonights QandaLand.
    We all know the script. Boat-people. Joolyas Leadership.
    Mr-Rabbits usual `NO`.
    A dew-eyed Sarah Hansen-Young.
    Tony will take that as a comment.
    Audience demographics, 31% Angry Green,
    32% Embarrassed Labor, 37% Hooting Young Libs.

    100% Thank Fcuk it over.

  6. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 6:42 pm

    “……….and the policy of “Family reunion” for boat arrivals will be scrapped.”

    And that’s essential

    Just listen to ’em …

    I thought we scuppered the arriving boats!

    Just what does that nonsense mean … “scuppered”? In the true sense of the word or the “vernacular” … or was that the point … a simple play on words and let people “figure it out for themselves”?

    As I heard on Silent Witness on Saturday … “did you have an empathy bypass”

    These are PEOPLE we are talking about … I came here with my Mother, my father and my sister, I was married at 21 and they wanted to go back and live in England … I refused because I had a wife and two small children and I knew that they would be better off here … I spent a lifetime in Australia before I saw any of my family again (from 12 to 50) … I never saw my grandparents after I was 12 …

  7. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 6:46 pm

    What happens in parliament is often hilarious, but is usually unrelated to reality.

    This report undermines the rights of desperate people, and Gillard.

  8. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 7:06 pm

    This report undermines the rights of desperate people, and Gillard. AND ABBOTT!

    ToM, that statement makes you nothing more than a LibNit lackey … the problem is ALL politicians and I refuse to believe that you don’t know that … you are simply attempting to score political points off people who are desperate and in need of compassion and help … no better that Gillard or Abbott … or Milne …

  9. August 13, 2012 7:16 pm

    This report undermines the rights of desperate people, and Gillard. AND ABBOTT! + John W Howard + Nationals + all their regimes Lackey`s + ALL the other political bottom feeders that have tried to profit and/or gain from refugee misery.

  10. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 7:19 pm

    703, are we finding a common ground here …?

  11. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 7:27 pm

    TB, Abbott has only attempted to appeal to rednecks (consistently), he is entitled to be condemned for his policy, though not his consistency.

    Gillard has sought to appeal to every part of the spectrum, in this respect she’s been entirely and typically opportunistic. She has tried every possible policy option, every position, that’s why the report is far more damaging to the government.

  12. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 7:42 pm

    I might also point out that Min has vociferously endorsed about every position announced by the ALP, heavens, she even shifted to endorsing off shore processing in June.

    I’d let Min know this directly, but of course I can’t.

  13. August 13, 2012 7:45 pm

    Where’s Tom R to defend the Malaysia Solution…..?

  14. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 7:52 pm

    In fairness to Tom R, I don’t think he was vociferous in his specific support of the Malaysian “Solution”, I think he was more just anti anyone who was critical of the government policy.

    Tom R seemed to just wanted an argument, and there’s not much wrong with that.

  15. August 13, 2012 7:56 pm

    “I might also point out that Min has vociferously endorsed about every position announced by the ALP, heavens, she even shifted to endorsing off shore processing in June.”

    So has Ad Astra…

    Imagine how stupid they must all feel now…

    As a regular traveller to Malaysia (I’m heading there again this Friday), I’ve maintained throughout this sorry saga, that the Malaysia deal was rotten…

    But the barrackers accepted Gillard’s and Bowen’s “assurances” that people sent there would be ok.

    Will they now admit they were wrong to believe Gillard and Bowen….?

  16. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 7:57 pm

    TB, Abbott has only attempted to appeal to rednecks (consistently), he is entitled to be condemned for his policy, though not his consistency.

    Why not simply condemn him, FFS! WGAF about his consistency … Vlad the Impaler had consistency … the Crusaders had consistency, Al Qeada had consistency …

    That’s simply moronic reasoning!

    Gillard has sought to appeal to every part of the spectrum, in this respect she’s been entirely and typically opportunistic

    Yes she did, but its not “opportunistic” it’s simply trying to ‘involve’ ALL the community not just the “rednecks” …

    that’s why the report is far more damaging to the government.

    Who cares about who it damages politically … what about the refugees and asylum seekers … and you used the term redneck … GMAFB!

    I was a “boat people” …

  17. August 13, 2012 8:05 pm

    @TB Queensland August 13, 2012 7:19 pm
    703, are we finding a common ground here …?
    ++++++++
    Yes mate, I just thought it needed to go a lot further.

  18. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 8:08 pm

    I’ll also take the opportunity to remind Min, Catching Up, and Patricia etc about their lauding of the government for the clever politics of the High Court loss.

    Back then (they speculated) the government really wanted on shore processing, and losing in the High Court delivered this policy to them. They argued that it turned the spotlight back on to Abbott about what he would do to overcome the decision!

    But it is the government which has done the pirouette combined with a vault face, ending nose first in the gravel.

    Amazingly these people still comment on the topic without any apparent embarrassment!
    ——-
    TB, the ALP sought to straddle the moral high ground when this was a political winner. They then sunk into the slime with the Liberal when this was in their interests.

    They’re completely unpredictable, without any philosophical compass, and for that they can get an additional condemnation.

  19. August 13, 2012 8:08 pm

    Actually, now that Bowen and Gillard have accepted all the recommendations in the report will they now apologise to “all of Australia” for misleading everyone that adequate safeguards were in place to protect the safety and wellbeing of asylum seekers sent to Malaysia, when the report has concluded that this is not the case?

  20. August 13, 2012 8:11 pm

    “for that they can get an additional condemnation”

    May I add my additional condemnation to your additional condemnation…

  21. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 8:16 pm

    They’re completely unpredictable, without any philosophical compass, and for that they can get an additional condemnation.

    ToM, that applies to BOTH — nay, ALL politicians – party or independent!

    Personally I’m disgusted at Australia’s treatment of refugees … a pox on politicians and those of you scoring points at their expence … especially those blaming others who are no better nor worse than reflecting the vicious malaise of the Australian public …

    I have so you can’t … how chidish and sick … (in the true sense of the word not he vernacular) …

    I need to sing! Get fucked the lot of you!

  22. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2012 8:17 pm

    Apologies … re Get fucked the lot of you!

    I’m just a bit fed up with the BS …

  23. August 13, 2012 8:21 pm

    “I need to sing! Get fucked the lot of you!”

    I haven’t heard of that one before. Who’s it by?

  24. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 13, 2012 8:24 pm

    TB might mean one of the old Skyhooks favourites!

    (not for work or children)

  25. el gordo permalink
    August 13, 2012 8:36 pm

    ‘Tom R seemed to just wanted an argument, and there’s not much wrong with that.’

    No, but he does have strong opinions which fly in the face of reasonable argument.

  26. Talkin' Pointz permalink
    August 13, 2012 10:06 pm

    I’d just like to add that Tom R’s opinions are derivative.

  27. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 14, 2012 1:26 am

    Well “duh”…..I think I like many others I was arguing for this about 3 years ago and suffering the abuse of certain loudmouths here as a result? Of course many here went on and on about push factors vs pull when it has always been about queue jumping. LABOR created the incentive, end of story.This is just a piece of the larger puzzle of mass movements of “ECONOMIC” migrants coming from the developing world and using our systems of governance to their advantage with the aid of the open borders crowd and certain political parties…All the tear jerking laments are just that and devoid of logic…

    Nice to see Labor WAKE UP to the real world although the refugee lobby never will as it is a “right” now to circumvent/ignore borders don’t you know LOL…YOU WERE WRONG and how many drowned before you decided to make the tough, grown up choice over the political feel good one?

  28. JMSU permalink
    August 14, 2012 1:29 am

    I’d just like to add that Tom R’s opinions are derivative.

    “Derivative” eclipses “just making shit up” or regurgitating LNP talking points!

    😆 As if there has ever been an original thought posted here 😆

  29. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 8:49 am

    “As if there has ever been an original thought posted here”

    Yeah…………nothing “original” on this thread but that’s because the unoriginal Howard policy was correct in the first place.

    ******************************************************************************************
    On another issue……….

    Why does one get the distinct feeling that some of the usual rusted ons from the Cafe are posting here but are too scared of the PipMigMin Troika to reveal their old identity.

    LOL

    So glad they had a thread up last week on the virtues of Freedom of Speech

    Yes Bacchus & TomR we really are ROFLOAO
    *********************************************************************************************

    Did I mention that Gillard is EVIL

  30. August 14, 2012 8:57 am

    “Why does one get the distinct feeling that some of the usual rusted ons from the Cafe are posting here but are too scared of the PipMigMin Troika to reveal their old identity.”

    Indeed. They just can’t help themselves… 🙄

  31. August 14, 2012 9:12 am

    “Why does one get the distinct feeling that some of the usual rusted ons from the Cafe are posting here but are too scared of the PipMigMin Troika to reveal their old identity.”

    Yet another weird conspiracy theory! Personally, I love Big SisBroSis. There is a world of difference between loyalty to principles based on true Labor values and the blowin’-in-the-wind stupidity exhibited by the demented troup of chattering monkeys often found around these parts. They have no values, being rusted-on to nothing but their own psychoses.

    In this particular case, Labor has developed had an original idea which will solve a very significant problem. They should be applauded for their vision. Of course Abbott will try to claim the credit.

  32. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 9:14 am

    I know it annoys some when I make the observation, but watching the ALP barrackers flay around on this issue, looking, hoping for a semblance of credibility is entertaining.

    There is no credibility for them, and all the “Abbott, Abbott, Abbott, Abbott, Abbott, Abbott, Abbott, Abbott” chanting doesn’t change the fact that the ALP has now adopted every possible position on this subject.
    ——————————-
    I also think the sock puppets are entertaining and welcome, but scared of the wrath of Piglo.

  33. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 9:34 am

    “Yet another weird conspiracy theory! Personally,”

    The only way you are going to know whether its just a theory is if you could tell by the IPs.
    Since you dont have access to that then you are as suspected just blurtin’ crap out your arse as usual

    “the blowin’-in-the-wind stupidity exhibited……………………………………”

    Now thats hillarious considering the number of policy changes that this truly f**ked ALP government has been thru only to arrive back yesterday in a “time machine” clutching policies dated pre-November 2007.

  34. August 14, 2012 9:42 am

    There is no flaying here, ToM. The PM has done exactly the right thing to bridge this impasse. She has shown true leadership, appointed a non-partisan body to look at the issue, and is prepared to make compromises to get the problem solved. Meanwhile Abbott is flailing about looking for another excuse to say “No!”.

  35. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 9:48 am

    Ben Packham in hate media says Abbot’s all for it.

    ‘THE Coalition says it will support legislation to allow asylum-seeker processing on Nauru and Manus Island in Papua new Guinea.

    ‘It will back Labor migration amendments, to be introduced into parliament today, without requiring all processing nations are signatories to the UN refugee charter, as it previously demanded.’

  36. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 9:54 am

    Gillard appointed the expert panel to give her a modicum of an excuse for a most humiliating/excruciating/embarrassing, back down/flip/pedal. It served no other purpose.

    Mind you, while the outcome provides entertainment for observers of skilled political contortions, and even some at Café Whispers – which specialise only in unskilled contortions, off shore processing remains unethical and inhumane.

  37. August 14, 2012 10:06 am

    Say what you will, Gillard has handled this well and Abbott is on the back foot.

  38. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:06 am

    … off shore processing remains unethical and inhumane …

    Absofknlutely!

    What sort of desperation, determination and courage makes someone get on a tiny, leaky, unseaworthy, old timber boat crewed by teenagers (apparently) and attempt to sail thousands of miles to the “Promised Land” …

    … and all some people can say is … but … but … they’re jumoing the queue … there IS NO queue for refugees and/or asylum seekers …

    As for all politicians, of all colours, it’s not about finding a solution … it’s about covering your arse till the next election …

  39. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:29 am

    “Say what you will, Gillard has handled this well………….”

    Comedy Gold

  40. August 14, 2012 10:34 am

    “Comedy Gold”

    I know, that sounds like something Catching Up would say, but the spelling, grammar and punctuation are all too coherent to be CU.

  41. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:34 am

    “… there IS NO queue for refugees and/or asylum seekers … ”

    Yes there is

    Otherwise why put a limit of 20,000 p.a. on it in the first place.

    And every boat arrival sucks resources from processing people in camps elsewhere to accomodate new arrivals first. Once that can no longer be done additional funding is finally sought.

  42. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:37 am

    “… and all some people can say is … but … but … they’re jumoing the queue … there IS NO queue for refugees and/or asylum seekers …”

    These asylum seekers have found safe haven in Indonesia. What they are now trying to do is get a better life for their family. This is not the point of our asylum seeker program. They are swamping our 13,750 places.

    Most of India would like to come here because we have flush toilets and they would have a better life for their family. We have other immigration schemes for people who want to come here for a better life.

  43. August 14, 2012 10:41 am

    OMG, it’s Neil! Where have you been all this time young man…?

  44. Hundreds and thousands permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:43 am

    ‘attempt to sail thousands of miles to the “Promised Land”’

    Purely in the interests of clarifying the facts . . .

    Surely it’s beyond dispute that most asylum seeker boats departing from Indonesia sail to(wards) Christmas Island.

    ‘The Territory of Christmas Island is a territory of Australia in the Indian Ocean. It is 2,600 kilometres (1,600 mi) northwest of the Western Australian city of Perth, 360 km (220 mi) south of the Indonesian capital, Jakarta, 975 km (606 mi) ENE of the Cocos (Keeling) Islands, and 2,748 km (1,708 mi) west of the Territorian city of Darwin. Its closest point to Australia is 1560km to the West Australian town of Exmouth.’

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Island

  45. August 14, 2012 10:59 am

    Neil!

    The Legend Lives On!

  46. August 14, 2012 11:00 am

    The new cowardbots are hilarious.

  47. August 14, 2012 11:10 am

    I am surprised at the absence of dot points in MiniPiglo’s contributions.

  48. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 11:32 am

    GOLD ……………………..GOLD……………………………….GOLD

    This from a regular contributor on a Left Wing Blog commenting on the Media headlines of today………………..

    “I am correct. back-flip is today’s buzz word.

    Is not a back-flip a part of a good dive.”

    ……………………………Now that is surely Comedy Gold

  49. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 14, 2012 11:44 am

    “Just what does that nonsense mean … “scuppered”? In the true sense of the word or the “vernacular” … or was that the point … a simple play on words and let people “figure it out for themselves”?”

    It was just a bit of whimsy, conjured up by the image of a family reunion of arriving boats.

  50. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 11:56 am

    I thought I was the dot point expert, and Mini Piglo doesn’t look like my sock puppet.

    I was thinking of using Wilful Contrarian – ”somebody disposed to taking the opposite position-
    • a habitual opponent of accepted policies, opinions, or practice
    • a thoroughgoing contrarian, accepting nothing anyone says”

  51. August 14, 2012 12:50 pm

    I will accept your denial at face value. I feel certain that it is a regular contributor though. Has all the hall marks of a caricature.

  52. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 1:59 pm

    It’s someone who has gone to the troubleof setting up a blog, andthat certainly isnt me.

  53. August 14, 2012 2:13 pm

    If anyone’s in need of a good laugh or two, then a visit to the cafe won’t disappoint.

    Catching Up is holding court telling anyone that’s prepared to listen (or who hasn’t been banned) that Labor’s decision to accept the Coalition’s policy of Nauru and the ditching of the Malaysia Solution is somehow a “masterstroke” by Julia Gillard.

    She’s so far removed from “the real world” it’s not funny. Actually it’s fkn hilarious!

    She’s like the Left’s answer to Annie Barrie of Kiama…

    In fact, I’m beginning to wonder whether she isn’t just some sort of Liberal Party plant, because the crazy shit that she comes up with is parallel universe stuff…

  54. August 14, 2012 2:50 pm

    Malcolm Fraser slams Houston report recommendations as “racist..”

    “The result is going to be racist because if people had been, white farmers fleeing from Zimbabwe we would have had a totally different policy.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2012/s3567260.htm

  55. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 2:58 pm

    Mmmm … Big Mal, does have a point … and can prove it …

  56. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:10 pm

    No doubt Fraser is against any white farmers from Zimbabwe migrating here given his supportive role in installing the racist genocidal dictator Mugabe.

    It is a shame that Squire Fraser’s own homestead hasn’t been handed to “war veterans” – i.e. those most deeply involved in the massacre of 20,000 Matabele in the years immediately after Fraser’s friend Mugabe came to power in Zimbabwe.

  57. August 14, 2012 3:25 pm

    I have to say, following it on Twitter, that I personally found the Opposition’s fixation on the issue in QT today irritating and offensive. There’s a Latin term that I can’t recall because I’ve been to lunch that describes something that is what it is. The Coalition political win on this issue can only be destroyed by arrogance in the face of that win.

    As Chris Kenny wrote the other day in The Oz…..The ALP and the Left’s biggest problem is taking the constituents of Australia for fools. Anyone who reads the newspapers knows that to the extent that preventing deaths at sea and asylum seekers arriving by boat is concerned, Labor fucked up in a massive massive way. No spin will change that and kicking a beaten dog is never attractive. I think harping too much on this issue takes the public for fools.

    Besides, there are far more juicy issues that I wouldn’t mind seeing raised in Parliament.

  58. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:27 pm

    What gets me is the double standards of the ALP supporter.

    If Howard was in power with 1,000 refugees drowned and 6,000 people locked up there would be marching in the streets and people chaining themselves to detention center fences.

    I was just listening to ABC24 and there are 3 refugees from Sri Lanka who have been locked up in Villawood for 3 years. No outrage from the usual suspects.

  59. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:31 pm

    ‘What they are now trying to do is get a better life for their family.’

    Yep, for the most part they are economic refugees, similar to those flooding into Europe.

  60. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:35 pm

    Meanwhile, Min discusses the goings on and exchanges here. Is she banned? Because that’s the only reason to do that!

    I think her latest position is the 6th one, each neatly falls into line with the moral high ground**

    (**as recommended by the hacks and power brokers who run the ALP)

  61. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:40 pm

    ‘Besides, there are far more juicy issues that I wouldn’t mind seeing raised in Parliament.’

    What are your preferences?

  62. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:45 pm

    “Catching Up is holding court telling anyone that’s prepared to listen……….She’s so far removed from “the real world” it’s not funny. “

    Her “real world” is sitting in front of the TV set watching Question Time and Skynews.
    I dunno why she bleats about Climate change when I doubt that she has even ventured into the sunlight or the rain since the old age pension came through.

  63. August 14, 2012 3:47 pm

    Gordo, I am quite fascinated with the goings on at the AWU not so long ago.

  64. August 14, 2012 3:49 pm

    ToM, and Meanwhile, Min discusses the goings on and exchanges here. Is she banned?

    Only as far as I want to. Banned? Nope. Set up another blog? Reb has set up several in recent times. And they’re only the ones that he’s telling you about. 😉

  65. August 14, 2012 3:58 pm

    JAWS, you’re an idiot. I hope that when you attain the age of 70+yrs that you will have even a fraction of the brain cells or nouse which Cu has.

    Isn’t that sort of icky, badmouthing people from the supposed safe confines of reb’s blog. I know that reb has called Cu to task and myself on a number of occasions, but how long has your vendetta being going on for? Let me see, it must be onto 4 years..just a suggestion, but maybe given that you’re still fixated on ONE email in the year ’10, it’s perhaps time to GET OVER IT.

    Reb, I’m an Asperger’s as you know..here’s one for you. A challenge. TB has new teeth and Min remains the moderating influence. What year? And when? And on what occasion?

  66. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:59 pm

    POST OF THE DAY…………………………………ONE FOR THE MELBOURNE COMEDY FESTIVAL………………………………….

    **************************************************************************

    Catching up
    August 14, 2012 @ 3:05 pm

    “Gillard that has back-flpped , with pike on this issue”

    With great grace and poise and a perfect score.

    The reason that the government abandoned the Pacific Solution because that was the policy that the were voted into do.

    The circumstances changed with the action of the high court. Therefore new action needs to be taken.
    ***************************************************************************

    ROFLMAO

  67. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:01 pm

    Are you referring to the Wilson Affair?

  68. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:01 pm

    Oh how hurt I feel you great gutless one Min……………………..

    Good name for you actually………………….Min = Minimal Brain Cells and Minimal Guts

  69. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:04 pm

    That’s nice Min.

    Personally, I’ve found all the contortions of policy that you, Catching Up, Patricia etc have engaged in to be highly entertaining.

    All the changes/flip-flops (and the consequential embarrassment) are due to putting the political interests of the ALP in front of good policy, and any real concern for the genuine interests of the asylum seekers themselves.

  70. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:04 pm

    “……….There’s a Latin term that I can’t recall because I’ve been to lunch that describes something that is what it is.”

    Is est quis is est

  71. August 14, 2012 4:13 pm

    As they say in Italian: il tuo pene si blocca fiaccamente.

  72. August 14, 2012 4:13 pm

    Yes, Gordo. I’d be very interested to know the extent of knowledge our PM had as to that fraud.

    It’s interesting you know. I once dealt with a similar law firm on a consultancy basis. One might say THE alternative law firm in that market. I noted that their fees for completing a form for a claim under S98 of the Accident Compensation Act (lump sum compensation for permanent impairment) amounted to $9,000. For completing a form. The lady in question received about $60k. I raised it as an issue and was removed from the consultancy. Then made redundant.

  73. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:16 pm

    Hmm, well at least Min isn’t misogynist.

  74. August 14, 2012 4:16 pm

    el perche sei brutto??

  75. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:20 pm

    Actually Min …………I dont have any trouble in that department.

    But from what I’ve read……………………I’m sure that the guys you have met have that problem constantly

    LOL

  76. August 14, 2012 4:21 pm

    Jaws, personal abuse is never a good look. The Holy Whispering Trinity deserve more respect from the likes of you. Perhaps if you brought a little more reason to the table, and a little less emotion, you could migrate from this sewer to a more astute conversation.

  77. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:25 pm

    “The Holy Whispering Trinity deserve more respect from the likes of you.”

    Oh……….the Comedy just keeps on coming……….

    ROFLMAO

  78. August 14, 2012 4:26 pm

    James: avere uno sguardo e la mia foto e il sogno sul bambino..

  79. August 14, 2012 4:28 pm

    Jaws, how many times can you get it wrong..but that’s another story. 😉

  80. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:31 pm

    “Jaws, personal abuse is never a good look”

    And if the visitors from the Cafe should care to look. They’ll find that it was CU that threw the first stone in my direction a few months ago.

    But that would be a very inconvenient discovery for you all.

    So just harden the f**k up and cop it.

  81. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:35 pm

    “…TB, Abbott has only attempted to appeal to rednecks (consistently), he is entitled to be condemned for his policy, though not his consistency….”

    “…That’s simply moronic reasoning!…”

    Sure is TB, it’s a way of making it appear somehow ok that the libs have always been racist. Labor must be condemned because they are adopting liberal racist policies. They are both being racist and should be equally condemned. Perhaps if you apply tomm’s unsound reasoning, the liberals are worse because they were racist first and as a party remain utterly committed to it, we might still have hope that events down the track could have labor changing their minds yet again!

    The only ones who are truly committed to ending the inhumane treatment of asylum seekers and racist political policy are the greens.

    off shore processing remains unethical and inhumane

    And hugely expensive. Australia continues it’s colonial heritage of racism and xenophobia. We haven’t progressed much over the years have we?

    Totally. Will they round up all the visa overstayers and asylum seekers who arrive by plane and stick them off shore as well? We still have the situation where people who arrive by boat are targeted and discriminated against, and to me, they are the ones who are most likely to be genuine asylum seekers.

    JAWS, you’re an idiot. I hope that when you attain the age of 70+yrs that you will have even a fraction of the brain cells or nouse which Cu has.

    Don’t worry min, he doesn’t have them now. I join in the condemnation of the ongoing and shameful misogyny that emanates from the big swinging dicks blog voyeurs here.

  82. August 14, 2012 4:36 pm

    ” it was CU that threw the first stone in my direction a few months ago.”

    People change, relationships change. Old grudges are best forgotten. Where has that charming old walrus gone?

  83. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:46 pm

    Anyone who reads the newspapers knows that to the extent that preventing deaths at sea…

    As if that is what the redneck coalition and labor voters are concerned about, they would prefer that they all died en route and never made it anywhere near our shores. They could not care less about the safety of those muslim looking people, that is the big lie, the false debate.

  84. August 14, 2012 4:46 pm

    il pensiero di un figlio provoca il mio pene flaccido

  85. August 14, 2012 4:49 pm

    Kittylitter, do not project your false assumptions on to the mindset of those you don’t know. That has never EVER been my reasoning, in fact I have long advocated that we increase our refugee intake. You would do well to read what Paris Aristotle had to say, long a refugee advocate, about being faced with the real problem.

  86. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 14, 2012 4:53 pm

    legi, intellexi, et condemnavi

  87. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:01 pm

    Forget logic, James. You are a Raaaacist! I win every argument. And I feel really warm and fuzzy and morally superior (even if hundreds of innocent people drown).

  88. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:04 pm

    (I’ve become “semi-lingual”)

  89. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:07 pm

    For those who might consider posting at other “hostile” sites just remember

    http://www.wikihow.com/Trace-an-IP-Address

    So always make sure when entering a “hostile environment”

    a) You use someone else’s IP (a client’s WiFi perhaps like I do in quiet times when working onsite)

    b) A completely bogus name (always do that when blogging)

    You see some sites actually do try and stalk you. And some even try and hack into email addresses.

    Which reminds me to get something investigated

  90. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:13 pm

    (I’ve become “semi-lingual”)

    Is that the same as semi-literate? 😛

  91. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:21 pm

    “I win every argument. And I feel really warm and fuzzy and morally superior (even if hundreds of innocent people drown).”

    Aint that the truth.

    Its easy to promise the World knowing you’ll never need to deliver it

  92. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:22 pm

    True TB, semi literate!

    I used to have a working knowledge of English, but this seems to have departed.

  93. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:26 pm

    …and just to balance up a discussion point about policy practicality, there are a range of options available for deterrent, which don’t require sending everyone to Nauru, Malaysia or PNG.

    It’s a lazy cop out to suggest that the main and best policy is off shore processing.

  94. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:28 pm

    It’s a lazy cop out to suggest that the main and best policy is off shore processing.

    Nothing “semi” about that sentence, ToM, and quite literate I might add … even a semblance of intelligent construction and well thought out …

  95. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:30 pm

    for cheeses sake james, could you be more patronising? must we have the puffed up legalese –
    “…You would do well to read what Paris Aristotle had to say, long a refugee advocate, about being faced with the real problem…”

    You would do well to know that I did read what paris aristotle had to say. I think he has sold out by advocating for this ‘political fix’, he has already acknowledged the ongoing mental health issues. What’s the point in seeking asylum if you end up so depressed and traumatised by the torture and torment of your imprisonment that you end up insane and of no further use to yourself, your family and your new country?

    You would do well to read from another experienced refugee advocate about the real problem – inhumane treatment, deterring asylum seekers by not giving asylum [a safe haven free from persecution and harm].

    http://www.julianburnside.com.au/

    …The question is, how satisfactory is the whole package? I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve.

    The first thing to note is that it will not save lives at sea unless it makes coming to Australia look less attractive than facing down the Taliban: you aren’t at risk of drowning until you get into a boat. You don’t get taken to Nauru, Malaysia etc until after you get into a boat. So the Panel have interpreted the Terms of Reference as meaning “how do we discourage refugees from trying to come to Australia?”

    Given that the Terms of Reference have been interpreted that way, it is not surprising that the substantive elements of the recommendations have a lot in common with the Pacific Solution – offshore processing, turn boats back, limited family reunion, disruption strategies. the Pacific Solution was explicitly designed as a means of deterring people from seeking our help: it was designed to “send a message” and it was not a friendly message.

    The report strives to give something to everyone. The Coalition gets Nauru; the government gets Malaysia (sort of); refugee activists get an increased refugee intake…

    http://www.julianburnside.com.au/

    Let’s be clear: the Government (and the Panel) have two guiding ideas:

    …deter people from risking their lives at sea. This is supposedly motivated by a concern for the safety of boat people;
    make sure boat people do not get faster resettlement than others who wait (in camps or wherever). This whistles up echoes of the ‘queue-jumper’ mantra.
    I want to look at the first of these, and consider the ethical problem of deterrence.

    Getting on a boat and arriving in Australia to ask for protection is not an offence. It is not illegal. Boat people have not broken any law. They are innocent people. What the Expert Panel proposes is similar to what the Howard government did: treat innocent people in such a way as to deter others from trying to get here for protection…

    First, they are outside Australia,…

    Second, they are out of sight and difficult to get to…

    …The Government is willing to implement the Panel’s recommendations; the Coalition is falling over itself with happiness at the idea of warehousing people in Nauru again – perhaps it is keen to continue its research into techniques for driving people mad. It will only happen if the Parliament makes four assumptions:

  96. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:35 pm

    From what I’ve read on the net today I think we’ll need to process on every frigging island in the Pacific if the Israel/Iran nuclear thingo hots up such will be the numbers fleeing Iran.

    Which is looking very very very likely. Seems Israeli Benny Boy is making some pretty pretty hawkish statements (lost patience) and notice the Oil Price is sneaking up.

  97. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:37 pm

    “I win every argument. And I feel really warm and fuzzy and morally superior (even if hundreds of innocent people drown).”

    How pathetic.

    If you feel that I’ve ‘won’ an argument than you must have known that you were defending the indefensible. Why would you do that?

    The boats won’t stop because of this new policy.

  98. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:44 pm

    “The first thing to note is that it will not save lives at sea unless it makes coming to Australia look less attractive than facing down the Taliban:”

    That applies to such a tiny proportion that its meaningless unless the Taliban are operating in Sri Lanka, Iran, Iraq, and Indonesia.

    Most of these people are economic refugees (AKA….. Bullshit Artists). Otherwise why once on the boat do you burn all the papers that allowed you to enter Indonesia in the first place ?

  99. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:46 pm

    The fact is that Howard was right and his enemies wrong.

    We only had 4 boat people in detention in 2007 but we still took 13,750 refugees.

    Any other policy that Greens/Labor have come up with is more inhumane and unfair.

  100. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:55 pm

    The boats won’t stop because of this new policy.

    Tru dat …

    Any other policy that Greens/Labor have come up with is more inhumane and unfair ..

    Why? Please explain?

  101. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:58 pm

    It is rather amusing that the White Australia Policy and Mandatory Detention were all set up by the ALP and that Howard’s Pacific Solution was also supported by the ALP when introduced.

  102. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:01 pm

    The ethnic Tamils of Sri Lanka may require further consideration, as to whether they are economic refugees or genuine asylum seekers.

  103. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:18 pm

    El Gordo

    In one sense all boat people are economic refugees. They have safe haven in Indonesia. One safe they now start country shopping.

    They like the fact we have flush toilets and everything else that goes with a first world country and makes us attractive. They are seeking a better life for their family.

  104. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:24 pm

    It is rather amusing that the White Australia Policy and Mandatory Detention were all set up by the ALP and that Howard’s Pacific Solution was also supported by the ALP when introduced.

    ◊ It’s not amusing at all …

    ◊ The White Australia Policy has been/is condemned by most contemporary Australians … it was over 60 years ago and the only reason that it was objected to at the time was because The Robber Barons (thought they) needed Asian labour to harvest the sugar crops … as usual you just pick the bits …

    Mandatory detention in Australia refers to the Australian federal government’s policy and system of mandatory immigration detention active from 1992 to date, pursuant to which all persons entering the country without a valid visa are compulsorily detained and sometimes subject to deportation. While the term mandatory detention is used describe the detention process, there is a voluntary aspect to this detention in one sense, in almost all cases at any time these people are free to return to their country of origin, and will be assisted by the Australian Government, if they so choose.

    More bit picking …

    ◊ So TWA Policy was Labor … Mandatory Detention was Labor and Howard’s PS was “supported”by Labor (which it did) what you fail to mention is that TWA Policy was supported by the Liberals as was MD … TWA Policy was dismantled by both Menzies (Lib) and finally by Whitlam (Labor) …

    ◊ TIMES CHANGE, people change … circumstances change only a friggin’ accountant sees no change (pun intended!) in the world …

    ◊ The world does not revolve around money – it revolves around people and what they do …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I prefer to live in a society, rather than survive in an economy!

    (Or a political vacuum of incompassionate people zombies)

  105. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:28 pm

    “… as usual you just pick the bits … ”

    LOL………………like you just avoided mentioning the strong Union support for TWA.

    “TIMES CHANGE, people change … circumstances change………….”

    Yes Julia…………..LOL

  106. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:30 pm

    an extract from julian burnside’s submission to the expert panel on asylum seekers

    http://www.julianburnside.com.au/

    The following facts are uncontroversial.
    Boat-people come here principally from Afghanistan, where the Hazaras are the target of
    Taliban genocide, and from Sri Lanka, where the Tamils are being persecuted in the wake of
    their failed liberation movement. Those two groups have dominated boat-people numbers in
    the last few years.
    Hazaras and Tamils are really desperate in their bid for freedom. Apart from any other
    consideration, a person has to be desperate to take the risks they in fact take in an attempt
    to reach safety in Australia.
    Most boat-people who arrive here alive end up being assessed as genuine refugees, entitled
    to our protection. Over 90 per cent of them are ultimately successful in their asylum claims.
    This compares with a success rate of about 20% among asylum claims of people who arrive
    here by air on short term visas, such as business, tourist or student visas. The different
    success rates are readily explained: the boat trip is dangerous: it is a mark of sincerity that a
    person takes the risks it involves.

    Some of the boats carrying asylum seekers sink, and some of the refugees drown. The
    number who have drowned is not clear, but it looks like about 2-3 per cent of them since
    2000.
    Desperate people will take desperate measures. The experience of the Jews in the 1930s
    and the Vietnamese in the late 1970s tells us that. Ordinary human experience tells us that.
    A person facing death or torture is not likely to be deterred by the prospect of being locked
    up in a detention centre, or even by the risk of drowning. Common sense and ordinary
    experience tells us that. In the past few weeks I have asked Hazaras I know personally and
    who came here as boat-people, whether they had been aware of the risks before setting out.
    Some did. I asked them why they took the risk: they said that the Taliban represented a
    greater risk. Others did not: they did not know where they were being taken. For that group,
    deterrence is not a relevant consideration.
    It is also significant that, at present, asylum seekers who get to Indonesia face the real
    prospect of being mistreated and jailed by the Indonesian authorities if they are caught. In
    addition, they are not permitted to work or to send their children to school. I suspect that
    most Australians faced with the same problem would choose the same solution: take a risk
    and get on a boat.

  107. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:35 pm

    Noddy you may be right about the Tamils, but as I’m personally related I admit to having cried when they slaughtered them in the final battle.

    So I may just have a closer look.

  108. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:35 pm

    … like you just avoided mentioning the strong Union support for TWA.

    Yer on the piss again, Wally, aren’t ya? 😯 D’ya want the links, mate? Or can you spell wikepedia by yourself … 😆

  109. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:37 pm

    In one sense all boat people are economic refugees.

    Unless they’re Russians apparently, egg … 😉

  110. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:39 pm

    ‘I raised it as an issue and was removed from the consultancy. Then made redundant.’

    Integrity comes at a price, at least if you maintain due diligence you’ll sleep well.

  111. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:49 pm

    “wikepedia”

    LOL

    “Yer on the piss again, Wally, ”

    Nah…………..mandatory night off…………………tomorrow night I will be

  112. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 14, 2012 6:58 pm

    They are seeking a better life for their family.

    and that is a bad thing?

    In one sense all boat people are economic refugees.

    except they are escaping war and persecution, i guess you’re right in that they are escaping the economic drive of the war-for-profit-machine, that would be the us, uk and australia wouldn’t it?

    and in another sense…

    all asylum seekers that come by plane are economic refugees, so why discriminate only against those smaller numbers who come by boat?

  113. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 14, 2012 7:48 pm

    5. We should provide positive incentives, more policing, more effective pursuit of key people smugglers, to prevent asylum seekers embarking on dangerous boat journeys. I do not however believe we should punish further those people who adopt desperate measures to escape from persecution by subjecting them to punitive measures when they do arrive on our shores. I note in passing that the measures to deter asylum seekers depend on punishing them after they have embarked.

    In the longer term the nations who have participated in the war against the Taliban including the U.S.A., U.K., France, Canada, Germany, and Australia who are in the process of withdrawing from Afghanistan should coordinate their efforts to establish an international resettlement programme for refugees from Afghanistan.

    Petro Georgiou,

  114. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 8:13 pm

    Since the end of the war in Sri Lanka the Tamils have been poorly treated, like second class citizens, so here we have a perfect opportunity for Julia to assist in helping those displaced by war.

    http://news.chennaionline.com/chennai/Political-settlement-only-soln–to-lankan-Tamils-issue–Karunanidhi/871e967d-bab6-4af6-b206-44d577119521.col

    Julia could solve the asylum seeker problem from that part of the world by throwing more money at it.

  115. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 10:30 pm

    Agreed Eg

    But one problem ……… It’s just too sensible for the truly Evil Gillard. A woman happy to preside over the drownings of thousands for the last 2 years.

    She should post at the Cafe. They used to be quite comfortable with drownings over there as well.

    And at TPS Jason posted a couple of months ago that boat people got what they deserved for jumping on leaking boats.

  116. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 3:49 pm

    I don’t visit those places anymore Jaws, they are not up to speed.

    On the Tamil problem, I’m reliably informed that they are treated no differently now than before the war, according to my business partner, who says they have always been treated like second class citizens.

    They were brought into Ceylon to pick tea by the imperialists and they stayed, raised their families over many generations and not appreciated by the Sinhalese locals. There is also a deep Buddhist/ Hindu divide….and the Tamils are brighter.

    My argument is that Joolya could have directed resources to help these displaced Tamils in a way that wouldn’t politically upset anyone. Which may have gone a long way in discouraging them from risking their lives to go elsewhere.

    So I’m inclined to think Noddy is right….they are economic refugees.

  117. JAWS permalink
    August 15, 2012 4:03 pm

    Many many years ago I used to go out with a Sinhalese Sri Lankan girl. She was an absolute glamour but gee she really disliked Tamils

  118. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 8:41 pm

    Yeah, there is animosity between them and it goes back a long way, but when Bandranika (sic) came to power (with her communist delusions) it became worse for the Tamils.

    This can be regarded as the beginning of real discontent which ended in a 14 year war and displacement.

    All this is about to change with India pumping in infrastructure money to rebuild the railway from north to south and (hot off the press) Chinese capital has arrived.

    ‘The Ministry of Industry and Commerce says a Chinese firm is planning to invest an unbelievable US$ 50 billion in Sri Lanka to develop a port city in Hambantota, which would be the largest ever foreign investment in the country at a staggering 83 percent of GDP.’

  119. JAWS permalink
    August 16, 2012 9:45 am

    You can call them all rascist rednecks or whatever you like but the one thing that has not really been properly canvassed in relation to the Asylum Seekers and the increase in the humanitarian intake is the reaction to it by residents in the less affluent suburbs of Sydney or Melbourne. Afterall that’s where they are destined to live as its amongst their own community, some would say ghetto.

    People arriving as refugees do not generally take up residence in Mosman, Point Piper, South Yarra or Toorak. And barely any go and live in Brisbane or any other capital city.
    They certainly don’t reside in my neck of the woods being Bronwyn B’s electorate.

    Its OK for the elitists and political “intellectuals” of the inner suburbs of our largest cities to call for a greater intake but Sydney is currently being plagued by a shooting every single night with the one common factor being it is always involving people from the Middle East.

    We even have a Middle Eastern Crime Squad within the NSW Police.

    So I think there will be a lot of gnashing of teeth to come with cries of “Enough is Enough” before too long. And who can blame them.

    This was the latest one last night since confirmed as having an ME link to it.

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/road-rage-may-have-sparked-double-shooting-20120816-249n5.html

  120. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 9:17 pm

    Sydney does appear to have a problem.

    ‘In Australia, most of the Middle Eastern-born population live in Sydney (58.1%) or Melbourne (26.0%). Less than 5% reside in each of the other mainland state capitals, with less than 1% in each territory and Tasmania.’

    Earlier this year I went to a Christian Lebanese wedding and had a good time. The ‘best man’ told harrowing stories of street gun fights they were involved in…the gathering laughed in a knowing sort of way.

    Having come from a war zone it was no big deal for the children of these new Australian migrants to form criminal gangs in their new homeland. The fun part is that they are shooting at each other and nobody is talking…its a conspiracy of silence.

    In many ways it resembles the Sydney underworld early last century and just by coincidence my grandparents were friends of Tilley Devine… but that’s another story.

  121. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 18, 2012 1:11 am

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/the-onus-is-on-moral-posturers-to-say-why-they-persist-with-their-disingenuous-myths/story-e6frg6zo-1226452877783

    This was a great piece that pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter…
    “Now the onus must be on the remaining moral posturers to explain why their preference is for an open borders arrangement that will see overseas refugees dudded out of humanitarian places, our intake selected by people-smugglers and countless more lives lost at sea.”

    This is a question that is not hard to answer. Such a case for “open-borders” is another tenant of the “Left wing elite” that like all of their moronic policies, start in the classroom as theory, gain a foothold with certain parts of the public and are finally distinctly manifested as unofficial policy through back channels of government all while using emotional, heart tugging campaigns to deny and make obscure the primary discussion…Painfully obvious….Let me demonstrate..

    Then:

    http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=5340740

    More Recent:

    http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=nr2724-bOfMC&oi=fnd&pg=PA17&dq=open+borders&ots=J8FpdV6d0p&sig=fnoRmOBHJDLDK0yNhapkEUhkmiA#v=onepage&q=open%20borders&f=false
    http://openborders.info/right-to-migrate/

    It has been made painfully clear by this Labor government and my own inept “affirmative action and chief” that the old and very tired tactic of calling people who value law and order as racist, xenophobic or whatever; believe in a orderly fair process were right, yet again…Makes me want to run out and give more of my money to them, “please, tax me some more you paradigm of aptitude..LOL….Time and time again when left-wing “theory” or ideas are put into practice we get utter and complete failure…Left wing ideology really is a “mental disorder”…It defies reason on most accounts even if it does “tug at the heart strings” and is an ideology predicated on fear, slander and half truths…Every time it’s ideas are presented out in the open, in all their glory for the citizenry to see they are consistently rebuked by wide majorities…It is a failed and childish way to view the world but very convenient, even for the simplest/naive of minds to grasp; making it appealing to larger numbers. “Bell Curve” comes to mind… This isn’t a “illegal” migrant problem as it is one of incompetence…What is astounding is how surprised they seem to be every time one of their “theories” is proven incorrect?

  122. TB Queensland permalink
    August 18, 2012 11:58 am

    Time and time again when left-wing “theory” or ideas are put into practice we get utter and complete failure…

    Why are right whingers so arrogantly “right” … I could name a few right-wing theories or ideas that haven’t worked … the GFC springs to mind … as a an outcome of a right wing theory … “greed is good” …

    What’s so fkn frustrating is that you honestly believe everything you write as “gospel” … but that’s another side to the righteous right …

    The extremes of right and left are the tips if the same circle … the provblem is we keep going to the extremes instead of treading the middle ground where everyone can have a decent life … those who want to do well can but not to an obscenely selfish extent and those who need help can get it …

    We are all equal as human beings but not as individuals … I was taught early in my career that only 30% of people in business are “upwardly mobile” … I simply replied “Thank christ for the the other 70%!” … as a manager I always saw my job as looking after my team so they could produce … many of my peers saw their job as driving a group of people to produce as much as possible …

    Ignorance of left or right extremes means that every stupid statement about “the left” can be countered with “the silliness of the right” … for every action ———-

    What most of us want is something in the middle … killing 34 miners in Africa because they wanted a fairer share of the profits from a platinum mine demonstrates the extremes that people will go to … one for profit the other for a better living standard …

    The Eureka Stockade revisited …. 158 years later … in South Africa!

    History repeats itself … again …

  123. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 18, 2012 2:38 pm

    “I could name a few right-wing theories or ideas that haven’t worked … the GFC springs to mind”

    Do you really see that as a “right wing” phenomenon, honestly? Are you familiar with the details of the GFC or are you still running around summing it up to Wall Street? I would suggest you watch the PBS special on the topic, although left leaning it does a good job laying out the event in its entirety…

    “What’s so fkn frustrating is that you honestly believe everything you write as “gospel””

    That’s simply false… What I find frustrating is that despite how many times some here are shown evidence to the contrary of their views they refuse to acknowledge it…No, they almost instinctively step into the gutter, dragging me along and you are no exception my friend. I am always open to opinion and will alter my own if a case can be made but again, read the comments from your like minded bloggers on the other thread and tell me, what is so morally comforting to you about them? How do they make their case and why are they not subject to your “middle of the road” sanctimony?

    For the record, I am a registered “INDEPENDENT” not a Republican…I am now labeled “right-wing” unfortunately because, go figure, I take the position on issues like “illegal immigration” because hell, I believe laws should be enforced if they are on the books, apparently that is a “right wing” view now?

    “Ignorance of left or right extremes means that every stupid statement about “the left” can be countered with “the silliness of the right” … for every action”

    Hmm, well perhaps on some topics but are you implying that’s applicable here? If so explain yourself as I attempted to do instead of resorting to name calling or back slapping in support of. I simply provided some references and opinions on the other thread as well and was countered with what? Hardly gospel but surely a bit more enlightening than “Arizona Arse Clown” wouldn’t you say? Tell me, what position came across as more informed there TB? What you probably mistake as arrogance is simply confidence in my opinion and well thought out reasoning for having said opinion. When I am given a rationale counter I will gladly analyze its merits. Unfortunately, some here are incapable of doing so but I guess that is a “gospel” you agree with, very telling TB…

  124. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 3:59 pm

    It has been made painfully clear by this Labor government and my own inept “affirmative action and chief” that the old and very tired tactic of calling people who value law and order as racist, xenophobic or whatever; believe in a orderly fair process were right, yet again…

    You only value the law and order that you agree with.

    “One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.”

    That’s simply false… What I find frustrating is that despite how many times some here are shown evidence to the contrary of their views they refuse to acknowledge it…

    propaganda and opinion is not evidence

  125. August 18, 2012 5:29 pm

    The Arizona Arse Clown claiming it is independent ? LOL
    Everything it pushes is Republican. One of Palins paid Lobby-trolls
    I suspect. Throwing down Republican challenges and peddling
    Trickle-Down-Reaganomics. Yeah, that went well.
    (But of course can`t find a reply to Warren Buffet)

  126. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 19, 2012 1:50 am

    “You only value the law and order that you agree with.”

    Example please; oh wait you have none…

    “propaganda and opinion is not evidence”

    How about providing something to the contrary than or is it simply a matter of you labeling anything you disagree with as “propaganda” or “opinion” backed by what, your brilliance? Having played out in “real life” where? What is a valid source then by your definition, just curious? By your logic or lack thereof there can be no truth in anything contrary to your own belief system; so anything you are presented with that contradicts you ideology will be discounted as such…You are hardly a “freethinker” love…For the record, if you make a statement, be prepared to defend it or why else visit a blog?

    Armchair, if you want to have a debate then by all means let’s do so otherwise grow up dear and stop with the drive by comments or don’t and continue to look like an unhinged person.

  127. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 19, 2012 1:56 am

    “The Arizona Arse Clown claiming it is independent ?”

    Is somebody addressing me again? I can’t tell as it has difficulty completing an intelligent thought of any kind? Hmm….

    “But of course can`t find a reply to Warren Buffet”

    Oh my apologies, that was a question? I disagree…how was that? We want to argue about dollar amount or tax bracket? Oddly, the rich progressives simply don’t feel compelled to give more when they are free to do so? Why do you think that is? Don’t break anything thinking about that one please…I would assume you just graduated uni or just started? If not, god help you…LOL

  128. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:11 am

    love…dear? showing your true nature now sparta?

    I know who needs to grow up. I’m not bothered by your patronising and sexist little diatribe pal, you demean yourself, I was wrong, I had thought you were better than that. I guess when you don’t have an argument, offence is the best defence. I don’t know why toiletboss bothered to defend you the other day, he must have been thinking of someone he used to know.

  129. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 19, 2012 9:32 am

    “love…dear? showing your true nature now sparta?”

    Yes, implying you are young or perhaps not? Oh but how very typical to assume it was sexist and patronizing, you must have been educated in true feminist fashion, my apologies. Had no idea we had a genuine apostle here…Don’t have an argument? Yes, that must be it, indeed you got me there…Run along and play elsewhere “madam” if grown up talk is a bit much otherwise I am ready to have a discussion whenever you have something to say other than agreeing with the local neanderthal, 730…LOL

    Please if I thought you were sincere but we both know your not…

  130. August 19, 2012 9:57 am

    “Run along and play elsewhere “madam” ”

    I really hate that sort of condescending tone. It’s like something that cnut wixxy would say.

  131. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2012 10:04 am

    I just read from my last post down … and thought? Did sparta, actually say anything? Nup.

    Did sparta, do what he accuses others of? Yep.

    Do I know which side of politics he (that’s obvious) leans? Yep

    Is he truly an independent. Nup

    Why would he argue American politics on an Australian blog? I have no idea …

    (Note: Why do right leaning posters say that they are left or centre all the time when their arguments are clearly right of politics … I can’t recall any “left” leaning posters saying that they are really right wing … concience?) 😆

  132. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 19, 2012 12:07 pm

    Perhaps the better question TB would be why do most sites (to include this one) mention the US as much as they do? Everybody is the authority on my country so why not have a token yank in the mix? Umm, yes I lean right, but that is not hard to do here..LOL

  133. August 19, 2012 12:51 pm

    Token yank, Arizona Arse Clowns are always welcome. The rest of the world needs to adopt failed, bad yank ideas. We appreciate your thoughts between shifts of guarding your Mexican Proof Fence.

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