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Can Labor Win? Yes it can!

August 14, 2012

The following article is by Alan Kohler and was originally published at The Business Spectator and then at Crikey…

The Labor Party’s chances of pulling off a come-from-behind win at next year’s election took a big step forward yesterday with two expert panel reports, both of which would have been in line with the old dictum of “never have an inquiry unless you know the answer first”.

One deals with the problem of mobile capital, the other deals with the problem of mobile people. Both were hurting Labor, and both have been neutralised.

Separately the government is also reported to be planning to scrap the $15 a tonne floor price on carbon emissions trading from 2015 and replace it with a link to the European ETS, where permits are currently selling for less than $10.

Can the ALP really win? Definitely. The main problems remain the morale of the ALP itself, and Julia Gillard’s lack of public authenticity, stemming partly from the broken promise on carbon tax and her opposition to gay marriage and partly from her robotic style.

Against that, the economy is travelling very well indeed and the Coalition has a very big looming problem funding handouts without the taxes (carbon tax and mining tax) that go with them. The hole is said to be $70 billion, which will have to come from spending cuts or other taxes.

Gillard and Wayne Swan believe that if they neutralise boats and company tax as issues, then the $70 billion hole will sink Tony Abbott.

Also, they hope the carbon tax will be less of an issue because a growing number of emitting companies are already making a profit out of it. That’s because the compensation for trade-exposed firms is fixed for five years based on old industry averages; many are now emitting much less greenhouse gas and are ahead on the deal. They will squawk if Abbott repeals it.

What’s more, Abbott won’t be able to repeal it before 2015 because of the need for another election to do it, by which time companies may be buying cheap European permits.

That leaves boat people and company tax.

The review of asylum seeker policy led by Angus Houston has provided cover for the re-opening of the Nauru processing centre, no doubt as intended. It ensures that new legislation for offshore processing will pass parliament with Coalition support.

Opposition leader Tony Abbott would have read yesterday’s Houston Report with a sinking feeling: it means “Stop The Boats” will now not be an election issue no matter how much he claims credit for it.

The Nauru/Malaysia impasse was hurting Labor the most because policy failures are always, rightly, blamed on the government of the day; the Coalition was being rewarded for intransigence.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard had to find a way to cave and Houston has provided it, as both sides of politics would have known he would. No one will remember that it was the Coalition’s policy that stopped the boats, only that government legislation re-established offshore processing, thus removing asylum seekers from the Australian legal system.

It also helps distance the ALP from its damaging partnership with the Greens, who are sticking with their opposition to offshore processing.

Meanwhile mobile capital may been neutralised as an issue by the Business Tax Working Group, led by Chris Jordon, which has dusted off the old roadmap for Australia to join the global contest for capital through lower company tax rates, by removing a lot of depreciation allowances.

The fact is that a company tax rate is easy for foreign CEOs to understand while depreciation is complicated and opaque.

The intellectual argument for reducing targeted depreciation allowances to pay for a general cut in the company tax rate includes the idea that it would even things up between tangible and intangible assets. As yesterday’s report says: “The working group is also mindful of the growing importance of intangible assets in the generation of corporate profit. Intangible assets include brands, intellectual property, customer lists, internal processes, and copyrights which are often the result of investments such as R&D and marketing.”

Anyway, by suggesting that a company tax rate cut be financed by slicing depreciation and R&D allowances, Chris Jordan’s group has turned the debate from one between the government and business to one within business — basically between miners and the rest.

Thank you Chris. Thank you Angus. Now for some acting lessons.

*This article was originally published at Business Spectator

 

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189 Comments leave one →
  1. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 14, 2012 11:58 am

    Kohler makes a valid point. The possibility of an ALP victory cannot be discounted. The underlying reason for this is that everybody knows, deep down, that the opposition does not present an attractive alternative. No one supports the Abbott team because of their excellent policies or their brilliant vision for our future. The only reason they are ahead in the polls is because the ALP is so bad it looks to be worse than them.

    If the ALP can get itself beyond the daily slanging matches and focus on policy issues it stands a good chance of winning, especially if Abbott stays in the gutter of negativity. He really needs to sell a narrative so that voters have some positive reason for voting for the Coalition. I doubt he is capable of that.

    I get very very angry at the Gillard government, but on voting day a choice needs to be made and most voters would prefer something better than choosing the lesser abomination. I still don’t know which way I’ll vote.

  2. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 12:17 pm

    “No one will remember that it was the Coalition’s policy that stopped the boats, only that government legislation re-established offshore processing,……”

    Ya wanna bet ?

    As far as the rest of the article is concerned……………… ROFLMAO

    If Kohler reckons the Greens are going to allow the ETS floor to be set lower than $15 then he’s been off drinking Koolaid.

    Gillard and the ALP will never be forgiven for the Carbon Tax

  3. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 12:20 pm

    And if he thinks fiddling with the Company Tax rate is electorally popular then it just goes to show how out of touch he is.

    Most small businesses, which I assume he believes will benefit which will then translate into ALP votes, ARE NOT COMPANIES.

  4. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 12:23 pm

    ‘Gillard and the ALP will never be forgiven for the Carbon Tax’

    Hear hear….

    A tax on CO2 is an abomination and we’ll never forgive or forget this expensive green bubble.

  5. JAWS permalink
    August 14, 2012 12:31 pm

    Can the ALP win next year ?

    Parramatta and GWS are more likely to win the NRL and AFL Grand Finals this year

  6. August 14, 2012 1:18 pm

    Anything is possible, I suppose. 😯

    They probably don’t deserve to be re-elected, but neither does the Abbott Satan deserve to be elected.

    It’s a perverse mirror of SA state politics. The ALP here has been arrogant & overstayed its welcome…but you only need to look at the current state of the Redmond Opposition to know that the other lot would ultimately prove to be worse.
    This leaves us bogged down with no alternatives. ho-hum

  7. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 14, 2012 1:59 pm

    Two big policies which helped labor win in 2007 was the NBN and a so-called education revolution they were going to introduce.

    Giving kids computers is not an education revolution and their NBN policy was going to cost $4.7B and be finished in 5 years. Which means the NBN should be completed this year if we were to believe their 2007 election promises.

    Such lies should not be rewarded.

  8. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 2:57 pm

    Agree … sp … well put …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Such lies should not be rewarded.

    Well as a staunch LibNit supporter, Neil, I would concede that you of all people would know which lies we should all support … especially the ones from Howard government advisers … I bet …

  9. el gordo permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:27 pm

    ‘He really needs to sell a narrative so that voters have some positive reason for voting for the Coalition.’

    Abbott’s minders are already trying to reinvent him, in all so many ways, but the big positive will be infrastructure development and increased migration.

    By comparison, Julia wants to keep Australia small.

  10. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 14, 2012 3:44 pm

    This issue is something that has burned me up for a long time. The ‘charity’ that those who enjoy great wealth and privilege give to the lesser folks. They are in the position to change the system, but they think that forcing people to rely on charity or noblesse oblige to get a leg up in life is the right way. I’d be telling that lot and the embedded journalists to ‘shove it’, which is probably why the good works are kept to one particular location and political sheltered workshop.

    Abbott’s Cape York listening tour falls on deaf eyes

  11. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2012 5:07 pm

    Powerful read, KL, ta … pity it will only have minimal circulation where it’s really got some meaning …

  12. August 14, 2012 8:36 pm

    “..Can Labor Win?.“
    I suspect this is coming at it from the wrong direction.

    With our duopoly, its a bit more like,
    “who will implode last?“

  13. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 15, 2012 1:03 am

    “The ‘charity’ that those who enjoy great wealth and privilege give to the lesser folks”
    Those who enjoy great wealth? I am always puzzled by people that “feel” others who have sacrificed and risked much in attaining said wealth are somehow obliged to give it away because some sanctimonious individuals say so… I have found that those advocating such a thing are usually themselves unable to attain their own wealth and if they do have it, are the least likely to give. The fact the “privileged” do not wish to give more to an entity that ritually and consistently wastes large sums of other people’s money and who create nothing, is simply good policy on their part.

    If you could snap your finger and all the wealth in the world vanished, everybody suddenly had nothing do you not think that within a short amount of time there would be those who again attained more? I am often amused by those whom consider themselves “progressive”; unable to grasp the most basic of human history and behavior…Even more ironic, it is the “rich” who make up government yet it is the progressive who thinks we should give more to it in the name of the “lesser folks”….It really is a confused mind that advocates such nonsense but as human history shows, they have always been with us and always will be….

  14. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 7:57 am

    ‘It really is a confused mind that advocates such nonsense …’

    I wholeheartedly and unreservedly agree with Sparta.

  15. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 8:42 am

    Came across a couple of Americans recently who were strongly against universal health coverage for their own citizens…”they don’t deserve it”.

    How I laughed and laughed….as they remained stoney faced.

  16. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:00 am

    It really is a confused mind that advocates such nonsense but as human history shows, they have always been with us and always will be….

    FMD, Sparta, I’d be surprised if you could ever get up again after leaning so far to the “selfishness” of the “right” … and I suspect these guys would laugh in your face …

    http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx

    Did you notice tag line to the right at the top of the page? In case you missed it:

    ALL LIVES HAVE EQUAL VALUE …

    In my experience its the ones who … think … they don’t have enough who don’t want to share with others less well off than they are … I’m no Bill Gates but I am a firm believer in helping those whose life fortune hasn”t been good to them …

    Most here are familiar with my travels through life so I won’t bore you again …

    But the question begs … WTF are you to say …

    The fact the “privileged” do not wish to give more to an entity that ritually and consistently wastes large sums of other people’s money and who create nothing, is simply good policy on their part.

    Why bother having a government at all? Oh wait! That’s what the “privileged” actually want, mini, Robber Baron, dictatorships all over the country … we’re pretty close (hey, Rupert?)

    … “privileged” … not the word I would use …

  17. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 1:31 pm

    Those who enjoy great wealth? I am always puzzled by people that “feel” others who have sacrificed and risked much in attaining said wealth are somehow obliged to give it away because some sanctimonious individuals say so…

    it takes a lot of sacrifice and risk to inherit wealth? to be in the right place at the right time and have the resources and the contacts available to you?

  18. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 2:03 pm

    If you could snap your finger and all the wealth in the world vanished, everybody suddenly had nothing do you not think that within a short amount of time there would be those who again attained more?

    yes, and the place would be littered with dead bodies so they could feel comforted by their ‘attainment’. then they would create a system of laws and government to ensure no-one could take their attainments off them. after that they would make sure that all others would need to pay them in some way for their daily survival.

    Why bother having a government at all? Oh wait! That’s what the “privileged” actually want, mini, Robber Baron, dictatorships all over the country … we’re pretty close (hey, Rupert?)

    government is ok as long as it is serving and protecting their interests and as long as the riches are given only by those at the bottom of the totem pole and delivered to those at the top.

    americans have been brainwashed from birth to idolise the gods of money and [religious] control, they no longer have the ability to think for themselves, let alone be confused in thought.

  19. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 2:11 pm

    With our duopoly, its a bit more like,
    “who will implode last?“

    perhaps we should do away with the farce of elections and voting and just give labor and the coalition alternating ‘turns’ in power. that way we would not need to go through the daily shenanigans of political point scoring and pretence at concern for the people.

  20. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 15, 2012 2:14 pm

    ilikeallthelowercasepostswithliittlepunctuationbutithinkwespendetoomuchtimeusingthespacebar

  21. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 2:16 pm

    he he

  22. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2012 2:36 pm

    space is freedom, no need to fear it 🙂

  23. el gordo permalink
    August 15, 2012 3:27 pm

    ‘perhaps we should do away with the farce of elections and voting’

    How about we abolish compulsory voting, but carry on with the political system we have inherited, while at the same time introduce Talcum’s baby….a president chosen by the people?

  24. August 15, 2012 10:23 pm

    “..abolish compulsory voting..“ Le Gordo
    I`m all for it.

    “..a president chosen by the people?..“
    When we can`t keep a chosen `Prime`Meddler` (kevin07)
    I doubt that will fly.

  25. August 15, 2012 10:30 pm

    @Tom-of-Melb
    didyoureadthissentencethenifyoudidreadthissentencethenyoujustwastedyourfuckingtime

  26. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 15, 2012 10:34 pm

    thankyou730reportididreadthesentenceandwastedplentyoftimebutofcoursethereisnothingunusualinthatbecausethatswhatbloggingisallaboutincaseyouhadntnoticed

  27. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 16, 2012 12:20 am

    while at the same time introduce Talcum’s baby….a president chosen by the people?

    wasn’t talcum’s baby a president chosen by the parliament? i don’t think he planned to let us choose – i could be wrong about that though.

  28. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 16, 2012 12:39 am

    “ALL LIVES HAVE EQUAL VALUE …”

    I see, so if you are rich and not running a foundation you are opposed to this concept then? As this article, like many others of its kind points out, the top 10% of earners here GIVE THE MOST in dollar amount…Now sure, you have people like yourself and others here who will always scream “give more” but really, what is the dollar amount that would keep somebody like you happy? I venture to say that you would never be satisfied until the “rich” guy was living exactly like the “other” guy. This smacks of envy to me….

    http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income-oped-cx_ee_1226eaves.html

    Conservatives vs. Progressives or “right vs. left”…This is very funny for it is well known despite the drum beating and constant lamenting of individuals like yourself and “armchair”. It seems that no matter how often you are reminded, shown the proof of the giving nature of the big bad “radical right” or “wealthy” they are commonly labeled “the greedy”…It is quite laughable considering but people with your views are not known for evidence or logic based reasoning; all emotion and bumper sticker mantras I am afraid…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html

    “Why bother having a government at all”

    I won’t venture to answer the obvious here but in regards to the topic at hand its function is not to find reasons in which to take more money from its citizenry to spend and waste on pet projects and feel good schemes of which I could spend days citing. There is not one program, not one in this country that the government has started that has not doubled in cost to maintain in the long run. COSTS OF SAID PROGRAMS ALWAYS GO UP. I am sorry, but only a fool would continue to think the “government” is a good investment…THEY CREATE NOTHING and risk nothing; no stake in the outcome and the arbiters of said schemes of reckless use of public money ever held to account.

    I find it telling that so much time is wasted by some individuals on going after people who create jobs and attain wealth but so little effort going after those who take it from others and waste it? Envy comes to mind again I suppose for what other reasoning explains such a mindset? Morality is a subjective thing so the idea of listening to another man tell me how and where I should put my money that I have worked and sacrificed for because “he or she” “feels” it is what I should be doing is a bit laughable. Especially considering that my “altruistic” government already gets over 40% of it before it ever even reaches my account……

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/whopaysmost.htm

    Really, what is the amount that would keep individuals such as you happy? There will always be poor and people who earn much less; is the answer to the world problems to keep taking from others? Half of all people in this country pay NO INCOME TAX at all…Tell me, where is your sense of “fairness” in that regard?

  29. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 16, 2012 1:05 am

    “it takes a lot of sacrifice and risk to inherit wealth? to be in the right place at the right time and have the resources and the contacts available to you?”

    Honestly “Armchair” do you have any facts? Is this coming straight from your uni professor’s mouth? The overwhelming majority of all wealth is NOT inheritance amongst the “rich”…To keep shouting this not only makes individuals such as yourself seem “unhinged” but also ignorant…Below you will find the best bit of research on the topic and low and behold, most wealth is EARNED here…Or just Google the topic if it is too much reading…Not very hard to get “the facts” if you want to find them…But you have to want to find them mind you….

    http://www.bls.gov/ore/pdf/ec110030.pdf

    You make it sound like making money is all about whom you know etc and nothing else? There are a couple good books out there. Take a look at this blog spot that cites them. He lists the differences in the rich vs. the average person cited by both authors…Given your commentary vs. said lists I suspect you won’t be a millionaire but people always surprise me so who knows…

    http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2011/11/01/what-are-the-differences-between-the-rich-and-the-poor/

  30. August 16, 2012 1:06 am

    Arizona Arse Clowns of the Republican flavor will always ignore Warren Buffet when he says, “Billionaires like himself who use none of the accounting tricks available will only pay around 15 cents per $ tax on the hundreds of millions$ that he makes, while his secretary on 30K or 40K pay around 30 cents per $ on their salary.“

    Arizona Arse Clowns will then bleat that some pay zero$ tax, but will omit these folks are homeless, unemployed or earn such a small income, they struggle to pay for essentials. Those wage slaves should pay for the infrastructure that allows the Nation to function, not mega rich businesses bleat greedy Republicans.

  31. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 16, 2012 1:17 am

    “americans have been brainwashed from birth to idolise the gods of money and [religious] control, they no longer have the ability to think for themselves, let alone be confused in thought.”

    Oh dear, is this an intellectual challenge? Alright “freethinker of original ideas” put fourth any one of your ideological pillars of the left and this “close minded, right-wing American” will do his best to contend with it much like your other recent ill contentions…

  32. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 16, 2012 1:19 am

    “Arizona Arse Clowns”

    LOL! We are dealing with another intellectual giant here I see…Off the Haloperidol again? Poor thing….Got to love the internet…

  33. August 16, 2012 1:57 am

    The Arizona Arse Clown is just Gish galloping folks, don`t waste your time on clicking its Links, nothing worthwhile there. Just another Romney puppet.

  34. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 16, 2012 4:34 am

    Its ok, I know little things like facts and stats are hard for some here to bear, truly I do…Please, just continue with the insults, just makes my point for me…

  35. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 6:38 am

    From the AM program in 1999…Malcolm Turnbull didn’t want a popularly elected president…kitty is correct.

    ‘…the central paradox in this debate, which is that a president elected by the people will inevitably be a political partisan because he or she will be chosen in a political contest with a Labor candidate versus a Liberal candidate, where big money will prevail. Let’s face it, what wins American presidential elections? Millions and millions of dollars.

    ‘… on the other hand a president chosen in this method which requires the support of both the government and the opposition, will inevitably not be a party politician. Why? Because Labor will not support a Liberal candidate and Liberal will not support a Labor candidate.’

  36. JAWS permalink
    August 16, 2012 8:47 am

    “The Arizona Arse Clown is just Gish galloping folks, don`t waste your time on clicking its Links, nothing worthwhile there. Just another Romney puppet.”

    I must say that the Left seem to have brought spiteful commentary back into this Blogspace.
    I’m not sure if I can put up with such language……………..LOL

  37. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 9:07 am

    Colourful language is noice.

  38. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2012 10:00 am

    “Colourful language is noice.”

    It is funny how ‘hope and change’ has turned into spit and bile.

  39. August 16, 2012 11:31 am

    Sparta has always been an adversary who won’t be easily dismissed. I seriously doubt that calling him names will dent him.
    He may be rightwing (he’d have to clarify that himself) & American, but he certainly isn’t stupid.

  40. rubycon permalink
    August 16, 2012 12:30 pm

    I always thought it was strange how it’s considered greedy to want to keep your money, but not to want to take someone elses…

  41. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 16, 2012 12:32 pm

    Arizona Arse Clowns of the Republican flavor will always ignore Warren Buffet when he says, “Billionaires like himself who use none of the accounting tricks available will only pay around 15 cents per $ tax on the hundreds of millions$ that he makes, while his secretary on 30K or 40K pay around 30 cents per $ on their salary.“

    To their credit the US billionaires seem to donate more to people than their Oz counterparts, but it is the ideology that stinks, that the poor and needy, those who got left behind and didn’t have wealthy inheritances, are undeserving of state welfare and should go begging to charity doled out by religious organisations.

    …Arizona Arse Clowns will then bleat that some pay zero$ tax, but will omit these folks are homeless, unemployed or earn such a small income, they struggle to pay for essentials…”

    “…Really, what is the amount that would keep individuals such as you happy?…

    AACs don’t seem to demand that the very wealthy like romney and ryan should produce tax records showing where the money is hidden. Perhaps if the records were produced, the people would happily tell you how much should be given back to the us in taxes or altruistic works. The wealthy don’t get there on their own, they have tax cuts and minimisation schemes and they bend governments to their will by lobbying – the “trickle down” is really trickle up, all based on the blood, sweat, labour and exploitation of poorer taxpayers/workers.

    …Morality is a subjective thing so the idea of listening to another man tell me how and where I should put my money that I have worked and sacrificed for because “he or she” “feels” it is what I should be doing is a bit laughable…

    It makes a lot of difference when you advocate for smaller and meaner government, smaller services, no safety nets and no medicare for people – what would you expect that they feed their kids with, a nice lecture and a kick in the guts from the well to do?

    And then you blame the individual when a single mother spends all day cleaning for wealthy people like dick clark, travelling long hours between three different part-time jobs as she is forced to “work for the dole.” And when her own neglected child goes to school armed with a gun, you say – how could this happen? It must be her bad parenting!

  42. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 12:54 pm

    ‘no medicare for people’

    Exactly…they don’t give a stuff about their own people and the gun lobby has turned the place into a battle zone.

    I would rather live in red China.

  43. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 16, 2012 1:04 pm

    Arizona Arse Clowns of the Republican flavor will always ignore Warren Buffet when he says, “Billionaires like himself who use none of the accounting tricks available will only pay around 15 cents per $ tax on the hundreds of millions$ that he makes, while his secretary on 30K or 40K pay around 30 cents per $ on their salary.“

    And he has managed to completely ignore that argument.

    Honestly “Armchair” do you have any facts? Is this coming straight from your uni professor’s mouth? The overwhelming majority of all wealth is NOT inheritance amongst the “rich”…

    And how many wealthy would admit to inheritance as the reason they are wealthy today? Also, while they may have earned and built upon the wealth, they get their start in life by inheritance and/or wealth transfer. How much family wealth is behind the opportunities given in life and the ability to be in “the right place at the right time”?
    A lot of accounting measures are behind the transfer of wealth between families pre death and won’t show as an inheritance, family trusts, ‘no re-pay’ loans and gifting etc.

  44. August 16, 2012 1:37 pm

    But see Kittylitter, I’ve never much been interested in creating much wealth for myself, but I’m suddenly interested in saving money to give my kids a start.

    Should I be prevented from doing that?

  45. August 16, 2012 2:47 pm

    “I’ve never much been interested in creating much wealth for myself, but I’m suddenly interested in saving money to give my kids a start.

    Should I be prevented from doing that?”

    You don’t get it do you? The only way we will have equality is if all people share equally. The state is in a much better position to distribute excess wealth, for example to give kids a start. Attitudes like yours are the reason so many struggle to survive in our miserable economy rather than live harmoniously in a great society.

  46. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 2:52 pm

    ‘…so many struggle to survive in our miserable economy rather than live harmoniously in a great society.’

    Sounds like TB to me.

  47. JAWS permalink
    August 16, 2012 3:43 pm

    “……..The only way we will have equality is if all people share equally…………”

    Someone wake me up when the University Undergraduate Coffee Shop discussion group has gone home……………Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  48. August 16, 2012 3:46 pm

    Jaws I think Minipiglo is taking the piss. At least I hope he/she is taking the piss. 😯

  49. JAWS permalink
    August 16, 2012 3:51 pm

    And who the F**k wants equality anyway. That would be the most retrograde any society/economy could take. That means there is no incentive for high achievers (think surgeons, scientists etc) except a pat on the back. Or of course a Medal of the Order of Lenin.

    Geez…….. got no idea have you Mini Pig

  50. JAWS permalink
    August 16, 2012 3:53 pm

    I hope so Sancty.

    I think Eg might be right………………….its TB or……………… Twisted Son of TB…………………..if possible

  51. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 3:53 pm

    Mini Pig is a watermelon.

  52. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2012 4:06 pm

    Now sure, you have people like yourself and others here who will always scream “give more”

    Because I’m poor, Sparta, a WCP like you and Wally (Jaws) and sreb and James (Ok he’s a wannabe) … just wouldn’t understand … Fred Hollowes knew …

    I always thought it was strange how it’s considered greedy to want to keep your money, but not to want to take someone elses…

    No-one wants to take “your money” but simply ask you pay your way in society … if your house gets ripped apart in a storm it’s not the insurance company that turns up to help, it’s your neighbours (for free! … and usually the ones with the least that turn up first or at all) … then the emergency services (you know, the ones paid for by taxes?) … you live in asociety for reasons … making wealth is just one …

    Morality is a subjective thing so the idea of listening to another man tell me how and where I should put my money that I have worked and sacrificed for because “he or she” “feels” it is what I should be doing is a bit laughable…

    The French revolutionaries thought it was laughable too .. they quickly stopped the laughing and wiped the smile off their Robber Barons and their wannabe friends …

    And history repeats itself … have look at Syria …

    that I have worked and sacrificed

    Arrogance, simple arrogance … the kids serving you at McDonald’s work and sacrifice … the “superiority” of that statement has annoyed me for decades … implying that if you don’t have as much as me then you must never have “worked” or “sacrificed” … often the one’s with little work fkn harder for less and can’t find ways of reducing their tax …

    The arguments will always fall on deaf ears … there has been greed, corruption, deciet, lies by, Robber Barons and wannabes, chasing $$$$$ at the expense of others for centuries …

    Anyone who believes that they are above the needs of society should simply leave … try counting the number of times a day that you can do things because of other people (rich, poor or destitute) … then figure out how you could survive with all your wealth … alone …

    Synergy works …

  53. August 16, 2012 4:17 pm

    I initially thought Tom, now I’m on Tony. Simply too cliched to be real.

    Gawd I hope it’s not real.

  54. August 16, 2012 4:22 pm

    “And who the F**k wants equality anyway.”

    🙂

  55. public toilet permalink
    August 16, 2012 4:44 pm

    I think it’s pretty clear that Minipiglo is defenitely either a current or former regular. Possibly a long time lurker but most probably well known to us.
    The barbs & ironic antagonisms are far too calculated & precise for it to be a newbie.

    I think it’s entertaining, but with every comment it gets closer to giving away it’s identity.

  56. public toilet permalink
    August 16, 2012 4:48 pm

    I’m curious as to exactly whom is regarded as a member of the howler monkey brigade? I suspect it isn’t meant to include teebee or kl…which suggests that the commenter is of a certain ideological disposition.

    If it is indeed parody, then a bit of thought has gone into it.

  57. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2012 4:51 pm

    ‘Cause, KL, and I are noice! 😛

  58. August 16, 2012 4:57 pm

    This debate goes back to Obama’s well made point: “If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”

    His preceding (but mostly ignored) words were: “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges.”

    Who really wants to live in a divided and divisive society where there is a massive gap between the haves and have-nots? Death and gift duties are an integral part of developing a more equal society.

  59. JAWS permalink
    August 16, 2012 5:04 pm

    “Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges.”

    The old Chicken and Egg argument

  60. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2012 5:05 pm

    “I’m curious as to exactly whom is regarded as a member of the howler monkey brigade?”

    If the cap fits …. I suppose on a bad day I can get a bit excitable. But that applies to most commenters. Why, the very mention of Andrew Bolt causes frothing in some quarters, eh Boss.

  61. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 16, 2012 5:07 pm

    I think mini piglo makes a great contribution. S/he is seeking refuge in a tolerant, politically diverse and challenging blog.

  62. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2012 5:11 pm

    “The old Chicken and Egg argument”

    The answer is clear. Private enterprise, the initiative, risk and hard work of private citizens, is the first cause. Without that there is no government gravy train. Every cent the government spends it has taken from private enterprise.

  63. JAWS permalink
    August 16, 2012 5:13 pm

    “Somebody invested in roads and bridges.”

    Yes…………..and there are plenty of Toll Roads these days

  64. August 16, 2012 5:16 pm

    “and there are plenty of Toll Roads these days”

    And gated communities.

    Imagine paying a toll on every bit of road you travel on. Most of us make do with public transport!

  65. public toilet permalink
    August 16, 2012 5:17 pm

    Andy Bolt damns himself by his own words & inconsistencies, splatter. If your implying that I’m a howler because I am less than polite about his contributions, well I’m not particularly troubled that you see it that way.
    I’m free to ridicule him to my heart’s content. But, to be fair, I do occasionally acknowledge that he makes a good point…(almost always quickly submerged beneath his deluge of confected anti-left outrage & regurgitated UScentric FoxNewsisms.
    I don’t see it as frothy at all, but I guess that may all be relative. 😉

  66. public toilet permalink
    August 16, 2012 5:19 pm

    *you’re

  67. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2012 5:25 pm

    I do get a bit frothy from time to time, not that I’m detracting from your efforts, Boss. But I think “howler monkey” is a bit of a stretch, certainly for you and even for me. You don’t even come close. 😀

  68. August 16, 2012 5:35 pm

    “I think mini piglo makes a great contribution. S/he is seeking refuge in a tolerant, politically diverse and challenging blog.”

    I agree.

  69. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2012 5:52 pm

    The old Chicken and Egg argument

    Nah, people came before roads and bridges … easy …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I agree. as you would, Blogmasta! 😆

  70. August 16, 2012 5:58 pm

    nice job armchair, your reward, a photo of arizona

  71. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2012 6:00 pm

    Is it my perception that LibNit supporters think that they are “rich” (meaning better) or will be soon (meaning better than) …

    … these days, I, “mingle”, so to speak, with more LibNits than Labor types … and I detect a distinct element of selfishness in the former, that isn’t quite so prevalent in the latter …

    But their values are “different” too … find the problems … with this statement by a grandmother, to her 9 yo grandson, who had just won a large toy dog at the, Brisbane Ekka, by drawing four aces in a card game … he gave the dog to his 7 yo sister … the grandmother said to the boy …

    “I’m very proud of you, H, giving that dog to, A, as proud as I was when you got the four aces …” 🙄

  72. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 6:01 pm

    Min Pig is likely a male and toilet’s observation that its ‘parody’ is also close to the mark.

  73. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 6:06 pm

    ‘as proud as I was when you got the four aces’

    Success in a game of chance surely means the gods are smiling on H. Grandma is naturally proud.

  74. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2012 6:07 pm

    037, that is the ultimate in satire …

    My compliments, sir! Whoops! Madam! Er … whatever!

  75. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2012 6:09 pm

    Success in a game of chance surely means the gods are smiling on H. Grandma is naturally proud.

    The kid’s fkn NINE years old, egg … all the family gamble … what’s she doing letting a 9 yo play cards (and is it legal? in Queensland) … it’s “training” …

  76. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 6:24 pm

    Oh…I see.

  77. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 6:52 pm

    When I type in the daily trash…for a split second I get The Daily Tribune or The Daily Telegraph and I was wondering if this came about through intelligent design or coincidence.

  78. August 16, 2012 7:21 pm

    Yeah TB, it`s a beauty. The main two demographics of the republicans.

  79. August 16, 2012 8:04 pm

    ” I was wondering if this came about through intelligent design or coincidence.”

    Probably.

  80. el gordo permalink
    August 16, 2012 8:12 pm

    🙂

  81. Sparta of Phoenix, AZ USA permalink
    August 17, 2012 12:51 am

    Oh dear god…After reading some of the responses here one clip comes to mind…LOL

    Thanks Tony….

  82. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 17, 2012 1:32 am

    nice job armchair, your reward, a photo of arizona

    that is too true

  83. rubycon permalink
    August 17, 2012 2:32 am

    Sparta, no matter how big of a pimp you think you are, you’re eventually someone’s prostitute.

    “No-one wants to take “your money” but simply ask you pay your way in society ”

    I should pay my way, or contribute my way? I barter with my friends every chance I get. Buying into a belief system that can be manipulated and counterfeited is the problem. I blame my father, he should have showed me how to build a log cabin on my own. Sanding drywall sucks. Sigh, I was raised by a yuppie.

  84. el gordo permalink
    August 17, 2012 8:13 am

    Godwin Grech has finally come out from under a large rock and wants John Howard to be the next GG.

    ‘… the disgraced former Treasury official who leaked high-level information to the Coalition, has called for greater accountability and transparency in the public sector.

    ‘Writing in the Australian Spectator, he also promotes John Howard for next governor-general and turns savagely on Malcolm Turnbull, whose leadership he helped destroy in 2009 by furnishing him with a fabricated email aimed at bringing down the then prime minster, Kevin Rudd.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/public-sector-needs-to-be-more-accountable-says-grech-20120816-24bj0.html#ixzz23kVyrBA0

    On that score, Howard could become a popularly elected president of the republic after five years out of politics…. personally I would be voting for Keating because of his scathing wit and taste in French clocks.

  85. reb of Melbourne airport permalink
    August 17, 2012 9:02 am

    “personally I would be voting for Keating because of his scathing wit and taste in French clocks.”

    Agree!!!

  86. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 17, 2012 9:20 am

    A president needs to unite the country, it should be someone we all admire, a public figure who commands respect and affection.

    I think Bill Lawrey would be the ideal president.

  87. JAWS permalink
    August 17, 2012 9:30 am

    Hey………………….reb’s about to jump on a plane. That means we can trash the joint whilst he’s in the air on the way to KL.

  88. JAWS permalink
    August 17, 2012 9:31 am

    Or Penang.

  89. TB Queensland permalink
    August 17, 2012 10:15 am

    Godwin Grech has finally come out from under a large rock and wants John Howard to be the next GG.

    He sounds very much like the Noddy Neil of Sydney? … You don’t think!!!???

    That means we can trash the joint whilst he’s in the air on the way to KL.

    I had a very similar thought on another thread … Wally … 🙄

  90. August 17, 2012 11:15 am

    Have a pleasant journey, reb! 🙂

  91. TB Queensland permalink
    August 17, 2012 11:56 am

    Have a pleasant journey, reb!

    crawler Yes, Blogmasta have a gudun! fk WCP! On hols again!

  92. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 1:27 am

    Godwin Grech has finally come out from under a large rock and wants John Howard to be the next GG.

    I’m amazed that someone who should be in gaol is given space in a major daily to write partisan political guff as if he didn’t do anything wrong. If he’s not in the nuthouse, send him off to gaol with him please and take his co-conspirator abetz with him.

    What has become of australia when these criminals just front up and start giving their opinion as if they have just been away on a holiday for awhile. What a nerve, how do these crooks get away with it.? Our political system must be very, very broken.

    I still wonder if GG and Abetz weren’t working a conspiracy to get rid of turnbull rather than rudd 💡

  93. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2012 9:09 pm

    Andrew Elder on Godwin Grech

    Diary of a madman:

    …The same thing is happening in Australia with Tony Abbott, harking back to John Howard as the steadying influence he can never be. There is a clear implication – never stated openly by anyone with any sort of standing in the Coalition parties, but still there – that John Howard will be part of the next Coalition government without having to go through the tawdry business of preselection and fundraising and campaigning with no-mark candidates, a bit like the role Lee Kuan Yew plays in modern Singapore…

    …Instead, I shall fish out some corkers of begged-questions that clearly aren’t his alone, and which have no business appearing under his name, leaving them flapping and gasping on the riverbank as follows:

    “If the Coalition is to improve the way we are governed, it must provide solid leadership, a healthy respect for due process and a much more accountable public service.”

    “Tony Abbott will quickly become an effective prime minister in the John Howard mould.”

    “Turnbull’s days as leader of the Liberal Party are over.”

    “Joyce or Warren Truss will only need to invoke the memory of Black Jack McEwen to deliver the stable leadership vital for good governance.”

    “By any objective measure, Howard would make a first-class head of state”

    “creating a more transparent and accountable public sector”

    Poprishchin couldn’t have done better…

    😆

    Now who would’ve been sticking that in there? I think the conservative forces within the libs are very threatened by malcolm turnbull.

  94. TB Queensland permalink
    August 18, 2012 9:18 pm

    Now who would’ve been sticking that in there? I think the conservative forces within the libs are very threatened by malcolm turnbull.

    GOOD!

  95. el gordo permalink
    August 18, 2012 9:58 pm

    Enjoy your trip blogmasta.

  96. TB Queensland permalink
    August 18, 2012 10:33 pm

    Why thanks you, egg …

  97. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 19, 2012 2:02 pm

    I heard a reply of an interview between Gillard and Paul Kelly. Gillard tried to intimidate Kelly by her ‘what is the allegation you are accusing me of line’.

    She’s on a loser. She needs to answer-
    *Was she dismissed (or did she resign under pressure) from Slater and Gordon?
    *Was she accused by the firm of incompetence or unprofessional conduct?
    *Is it unprofessional to represent your lovers interests while their employer is paying the legal bills?
    *Is this a conflict of interest?
    *Is the reason that these questions are asked after 17 years, is that Gillard has avoided answering them for 17 years?

  98. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 19, 2012 2:03 pm

    ‘replay’

  99. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:45 pm

    Is the reason that these questions are asked after 17 years, is that Gillard has avoided answering them for 17 years?

    Who has been asking these questions for 17 years? They’ve been pretty quiet about it. If she could’ve been charged for something then she should’ve been. It’s just muckraking and mudthrowing now.

    It seems strange they have only arisen when the opposition is looking for any and every means to attack her personally, they want the final killer blow to delegitimise her leadership in the eyes of the public. No need to offer any lazy policy alternative or anything just slay her with personal attack and innuendo – the good ole conservative way.

    What is the relevance to anything she is doing today?

  100. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:54 pm

    AO, they were raised in some detail in 2007, that’s when Gillard made the very lame “young & naive” excuse.

    I know they’ve been the subject of plenty of comment for a decade. Gillard has obfuscated and hoped they’d go away.

    The relevance of them is that they go to Gillrd’s character and judgement. If she has a shady past and has been pushed out of a prominent law form, it’s a relevant political issue.

  101. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 4:55 pm

    ‘What is the relevance to anything she is doing today?’

    This goes to the integrity of our prime minister, so it’s relevant to everything she’s doing today. And it shouldn’t matter if the allegations are 17 years old or 17 minutes. If she’s done something wrong she should be held accountable. If she’s done nothing wrong, as she says, she should allow – no, encourage – Slater and Gordon to release the relevant files. If she does not, she looks like she’s trying to hide something. The PM should address this – head on – because it’s not going away until she does.

  102. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 19, 2012 5:07 pm

    “What is the relevance to anything she is doing today?”

    I may have some sympathy for this view. If we are looking for a person to be PM who has done nothing wrong before they entered Parliament we may not find such a person. I guess it depends on what Gillard did. If it was a offense that would see her in prison it may be that we would not want such a person to be PM.

    But you are wrong about the Opposition bring it up if by Opposition you mean the Coalition. It is other people bringing it up so far. Even Robert McClelland has brought it up. Do you know who Robert McClelland is???

    And I have to laugh at your comments about muckraking. The ALP and its supporters are the experts at this sort of behaviour. I remember Bacchus trying to trash John Howard by sending me a reference about what Howards father (Lyall Howard), a man who served in WW1, may or may not have done in 1927.

  103. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 5:07 pm

    Why don’t we all play the smear game.

    I wasn’t happy with the process and outcome of tony abbott’s indecent assault charge all those years ago, I think he and his friends perjured themselves and I think we need a trial by media.

    Yeah, let’s re-visit all abbott’s past shall we?

  104. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 19, 2012 5:18 pm

    I don’t mind talking about Abbott’s activities of about 35 years ago.

    But Gillard’s conduct involves her professional activities. It’s about her confusion between her role in protecting the interests of her actual client (the AWU) and the conflict of having a lover brief her, and then having her judgment impaired by her dishonest lover.

    That’s the minimum position and it is serious enough about her character and judgement.

    The alternative is far more serious for her.

  105. Tony permalink
    August 19, 2012 5:20 pm

    ‘Yeah, let’s re-visit all abbott’s past shall we?’

    And his bathers.

  106. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 5:23 pm

    I know they’ve been the subject of plenty of comment for a decade. Gillard has obfuscated and hoped they’d go away.

    commentary from where? from whom?

    Even Robert McClelland has brought it up. Do you know who Robert McClelland is???

    fuck off neil, do you know where your arse is???

    Perhaps we need a royal commission into the orwellian named “australians for honest politics trust fund” that abbott set up and the honest politics and honesty behind that.

    [wiki] “…The conviction against Hanson was ultimately overturned, leading to criticism of a range of politicians for political interference by the adjudicating justice…”

  107. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 5:31 pm

    AO, they were raised in some detail in 2007, that’s when Gillard made the very lame “young & naive” excuse.

    about the time that she was in consideration for leader of the labor party, and it obviously never went anywhere then and it still hasn’t. Now she has made people aware that they had better be truthful and factual or they will be sued on this matter [not unusual for politicians to sue], she is not going to stand for a defamation. So now they make innuendo but no actual allegations backed up with further evidence or proof, which to me seems to mean that it is smear and muckraking. Put up or shut-up.

  108. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 19, 2012 6:04 pm

    “she is not going to stand for a defamation

    Good for her. But there is nothing said here, or in The Australian that meets the criteria.

    Gillard has ducked and weaved, now she threatens. I think this will help ease her out of the leadership. She deserves that.

  109. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2012 6:20 pm

    I think this will help ease her out of the leadership.

    OK … now let’s do the same for the wannabe Fuckwit™ on the Opposition benches and we might have an almost chance of electing a PM … what bothers me though is if Turnbull got a crack at the top job the bunch of Dickwits™ on the Opposition frontbench … are suddenly let loose in the lolly shop …

    Here in Queensland, Noddy Newman & The Neanderthals, are fast becoming more unpopular than the lot that was booted out … lots of “what have we done?” …

    Nothing has really been fixed … ambulance service/health – patients shuffled from hospital to hospital and future funding under question, police – half the Academy Training Team scrapped … (a helicopter on the Gold Coast in partnership with the Surf Lifesavers, FFS! And none even planned for two years for Brisbane the capital with 2.5 million people) … meanwhile the Queensland Government decides to join Twiggy in his High Court challenge of the MRRT … I’ll stand bare arsed in the brisbane CBD if Uncle Clivey isn’t telling Noddy what to do … yes sir, no sir, three bags fkn full sir!

    And they’re still building tunnels under Brisbane! A practice abandoned in European cities as ineffective three decades ago … incompetence rewarded!

  110. August 19, 2012 6:52 pm

    And they’re still building tunnels under Brisbane!
    @TB, what are the tunnels for/do?

  111. August 19, 2012 6:59 pm

    “And they’re still building tunnels under Brisbane”

    I blame the heat. It messes with people’s intelligence. And Queenslanders are already a bit short changed in that regard.

    Melbourne has the best public transport system in Australia.

    (just sayin’)

    😉

  112. el gordo permalink
    August 19, 2012 7:10 pm

    ‘I blame the heat. It messes with people’s intelligence.’

    Tropo is an urban myth.

  113. el gordo permalink
    August 19, 2012 7:18 pm

    We always thought of Brisbane as a big country town.

  114. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:07 pm

    I think this will help ease her out of the leadership.

    so it’s not really about her professional integrity etc, you admit that it is specifically designed to get her out.

    Which, btw, i think is a good thing, i’d like to see tony abbott up against someone else.

  115. el gordo permalink
    August 19, 2012 8:32 pm

    ‘i’d like to see tony abbott up against someone else.’

    Me too.

  116. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 19, 2012 11:03 pm

    “i’d like to see tony abbott up against someone else.”,/i>

    I’d like to see Abbott against Rudd, that would send the Liberals into a spin, and create a decent contest.

    Gillard isn’t doing that.

  117. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 11:27 pm

    I’d like to see Abbott against Rudd, that would send the Liberals into a spin, and create a decent contest.

    yes, such a spin that would then, in turn, have abbott replaced by turnbull, the contest that awaits.

    maybe and quite fascinating if it plays out!

  118. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2012 11:36 pm

    can you image abbott’s anger as he sees his ‘prize’ snatched from reach – twice

    would he actually explode!

  119. August 20, 2012 1:10 am

    I’d like to see Abbott up against a brick wall.

  120. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 6:30 am

    ‘abbott replaced by turnbull’

    This cannot happen, as I’ve explained in the past, the Nats will have nothing to do with Turnbull unless he drops the tax.

    It’s fair to say Labor would have a fighting chance if Rudd replaced Gillard, but they would still lose with the tax is in place.

  121. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 20, 2012 1:13 pm

    I’d like to see Abbott up against a brick wall.

    🙂

    This cannot happen, as I’ve explained in the past, the Nats will have nothing to do with Turnbull unless he drops the tax.

    It won’t matter if turnbull has the numbers though, will it? If labor changes leaders, there could be a flow on to the coalition especially if abbott’s personal polling doesn’t improve, it could be tempting to sit back, let abbott do all the work and then take him on at the end – sweet revenge on the teabaggers/nats for grech. I’m just thinking out loud really, is it so impossible for that to happen?

  122. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 20, 2012 3:53 pm

    I’ll provide an update on Port Macquaie sentiment re Oakeshott tomorrow.

    Has the “hate” gauge moved??!!!

  123. August 20, 2012 4:07 pm

    You’re living in dreamworld, Kittylitter. Libs will not go back to Turnbull. Turnbull didn’t get removed by Abbott, he got removed by an overwhelming campaign to oppose the Carbon Tax. As a result of that, Rudd got removed. And Gillard will certainly lose the next election, if she survives this week, which is starting to look doubtful.

    Gibbons has just thrown a molotov cocktail into the Press Gallery.

    This is going to get very ugly.

  124. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2012 5:20 pm

    BS, James, Turnbull was removed by ONE VOTE!

    Howard, was called the Lazarus because of the number of times he won and lost the Liberal Leadership …

    Gibbons has just thrown a molotov cocktail into the Press Gallery.

    Gibbons, is just like you and me … one person with an opinion …

    … if she survives this week, which is starting to look doubtful …

    OK, I don’t like the PM much (OL even less) so what are you odds, she won’t last the week?

  125. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 5:46 pm

    ‘…so what are you odds, she won’t last the week?’

    Too hard to call.

  126. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2012 6:12 pm

    Too hard to call.

    No-one asked you, egg, (why do I get the impression that you know,James?) … but I see you are fence sitting anyway … as usual … 😉

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    😆 This tells a tale about parliamentary frustration for LibNits “born to rule” mentality … 😆

    The previous Opposition Leader ejected by a Speaker was John Howard in 1986. In the 111 years of Parliament there have been six Opposition Leaders thrown out of which five were non-Labor MPs – Mr Abbott, Mr Howard, Andrew Peacock (1984), Robert Menzies (1949) and Joseph Cook (1914).
    One Labor Opposition Leader has been forced to leave the chamber, Doc Evatt in 1955.

  127. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 6:43 pm

    ‘fence sitting anyway … as usual … ‘

    Comes naturally, squire.

  128. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2012 6:44 pm

    Take a risk, sunshine.

  129. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 6:48 pm

    lol TB

    Barnaby for PM

  130. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2012 6:57 pm

    Nah, egg, take a risk! Could you imagine that lunatic waffling at a G20 conference? In fact name me any LibNat apart from Talcum that wouldn’t sound like an economic lunatic?

  131. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 7:04 pm

    Talcum’s good up front, but platform is important….realpolitik dictates it can’t happen unless Malcolm rids himself of delusion.

  132. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 7:46 pm

    The delusion of course, as James suggested, is that the tax on CO2 is politically wrong headed. If talcum came out tomorrow with a statement that carbon dioxide is not the bogey man that Julia suggests, he would improve his chances markedly of becoming PM.

    What the people want is a charismatic leader, someone who will drop the spin and tell them the truth. Not sure Malcom has the bottle.

  133. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 7:56 pm

    All of our politicians are bureaucratic…

    ‘Weber also believed that there were two basic paradigms within which leaders worked: transactions and transformations. Weber believed that transactional leaders were those that worked within the existing systems or environment to achieve results. For example, he theorized that the bureaucratic leader was a transactional leader that was effective in using their knowledge, or legal authority, to achieve results.

    ‘Charismatic leaders were transformational leaders in Weber’s model. These types of leaders were almost divine in nature, and were often compared to heroes. A transformational leader was not afraid to approach things from an entirely different perspective, and in Weber’s theory of leadership, they used personal charm or charisma to help them achieve their goals.’

  134. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 8:05 pm

    Michael Pascoe attacks Pickering’s credibility.

    ‘Aside from Slater and Gordon denying the allegation, there’s a major problem with the latest instalment in the vitriolic anti-Gillard campaign being waged by Larry Pickering: it’s being waged by Larry Pickering and therefore immediately lacks any credibility.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/larry-pickering–the-conman-stalking-gillard-20120820-24hxi.html#ixzz244yj42FA

  135. Tony permalink
    August 20, 2012 8:14 pm

    Coincidently, el gordo, I was just reading Pickering’s opinion of Pascoe. It’s on facebook – his website has been “suspended”.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Larry-Pickering/236991276355038

  136. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 20, 2012 9:34 pm

    The bloke actually in the interview with Gillard said she resigned as a result of the behaviour.

    I suppose he’d know, and what motive would he have for inventing the story?

    Gillard is finally getting cornered, and she deserves it.

  137. el gordo permalink
    August 20, 2012 10:53 pm

    Thanks for those links Tony….Pickering makes a useful observation and I believe him.

    ‘Gillard’s copious media staff is stacked with her old university mates of the “Socialist Forum”, an unabashed communist group who’s constitution demands dedication to influencing ALP policy.

    ‘They have never had it so good.’

  138. August 20, 2012 11:06 pm

    Bolt’s been throwing out dates for Gillard’s demise ever since she knifed Rudd. Each time you can sense the excitement & anticipation in his words each time. You can imagine him crying into his pillow to the tune of obscure, elitist italiano baritone cds after the subsequent premature hyperbolations.

    But…he’s bound to be right someday, Tom Araya knows, he’s said it often enough that the law of averages demands satisfaction!…or maybe he should pay heed to the first rule of holes?

  139. August 20, 2012 11:08 pm

    Each time you can sense the excitement & anticipation in his words each time. 😯

  140. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 20, 2012 11:52 pm

    ssshhh don’t tell tony, there’s a rogue apostrophe in eg’s post, I wouldn’t be so rude to point out where!

    re pickering – seems like one guttersnipe calling the other a guttersnipe.

    I’m over this whole war on ‘teh left’ as foaming and spitting from the angry right is somehow superior…just because…

  141. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 20, 2012 11:59 pm

    You can imagine him crying into his pillow to the tune of obscure, elitist italiano baritone cds after the subsequent premature hyperbolations.

    premature hyper-bolt-ations – is there any other kind? smug faced git. I can imagine him crying under his pillow, with my two hands pressing on top of it!

  142. el gordo permalink
    August 21, 2012 8:16 am

    ‘there’s a rogue apostrophe in eg’s post’

    Heaven forbid…..

  143. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 21, 2012 9:39 am

    So Slater & Gordon were going to sack Gillard over her actions.

    They considered it all that serious, but they accepted her resignation “without discussion”

    Gillard has a proven history of duplicity and poor judgement and was basically sacked from the last job she had outside politics, and she resigned under pressure because-

    • There were BIG questions over her integrity
    • She hadn’t shown competence
    • She didn’t follow due process
    • She put the interests of her boyfriend in front of her client
    • Her behaviour wasn’t transparent

    …and now with this record, she’s our Prime Minister.

  144. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 21, 2012 9:44 am

    Now that all this is becoming public, I wonder whether that proven bullsh!tter and master of censorship Wicks will start a campaign to defame Slater and Gordon…

    That’s his usual reaction to inconvenient facts.

  145. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 21, 2012 9:54 am

    Slater and Gordon are from the Unionland side of the fence and seem to be circling the wagons to protect Gillard. For example they are trying to gag former partner Nick Styant-Browne:

    SLATER & Gordon, whose internal 1995 probe resulted in Julia Gillard leaving her job at the law firm, is now trying to gag a former equity partner after he disclosed secrets concealed for the past 17 years.

    After speaking out in The Weekend Australian about the circumstances of Ms Gillard’s departure, Nick Styant-Browne received a legal letter yesterday from lawyers for Slater & Gordon and its former partner, Peter Gordon.

    The letter to Mr Styant-Browne states: “These issues are serious and my clients and I genuinely hope that they can be resolved amicably, discreetly and quickly.”

    …..

    The legal letter he received from Leon Zwier of Melbourne firm Arnold Bloch Leibler asked him to “treat this letter as a confidential communication between us … Slater & Gordon is aware of recent media about the AWU/Bruce Wilson matter which attributes statements to you.

    “I am instructed that you are in possession of confidential documents that are and always have been the property of Slater & Gordon.

    “Please send them to me electronically. If they are hard copy documents only, please send them to my business address and do not retain a copy of them.

    “For example I am also instructed that you have retained a number of Slater & Gordon documents concerning its legal review of the AWU/Bruce Wilson matter in general, and a purported transcript of an interview with Julia Gillard in particular.

    “Slater & Gordon has not authorised you to discuss its contents with any party. Slater & Gordon is concerned that you may inadvertently have used its documents and confidential information in talking to the media. Would you please ensure that you do not do so.

    “Slater & Gordon is also concerned that you may inadvertently have discussed with others the confidential (and personal and private) information of former employees.

    “Would you please ensure that you do not do so.”

  146. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 21, 2012 10:05 am

    ” I can imagine him crying under his pillow, with my two hands pressing on top of it!

    That’s very funny because I suspect it may be a fact!!

  147. el gordo permalink
    August 21, 2012 11:39 am

    Slater & Gordon are covering their backs.

  148. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 1:22 pm

    That’s very funny because I suspect it may be a fact!!

    No, i spend no time at all thinking about andy bolthead, i’ve never watched his tv show and only read his columns when something is raised by toiletboss. Just reading the comments is an exercise in lunacy.

    Gillard has a proven history of duplicity and poor judgement and was basically sacked from the last job she had outside politics, and she resigned under pressure because-

    That may be so, and it may be that the only reason she is pm is because howes, shorten and others rolled rudd and needed a puppet in place. I would love to get lindsay tanner’s recollections, i know he doesn’t like gillard and this was prior rudd’s demise, would like to know why.

    But, why haven’t the media and opposition ever been interested in the shit fighting, backstabbing, duplicity, buried bodies etc of male politicians and their climb to the top of the pile pre entering parliament?

    Just watching my recording of Q&A and the slater & gordon issue, the biggest applause went to the woman who said “I just find it all so boring”.

    My sentiments exactly.

  149. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 1:39 pm

    SB
    Do you have a link for your blockquote re s&g gag please?

  150. August 21, 2012 1:44 pm

    Only cranks would watch Bolt’s superficial pap on the box.

  151. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 1:48 pm

    Is the liberal party a plaything and springboard for abbott family values? How many abbott’s need to be at the trough?

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-diary/now-another-abbott-sister-gets-political-20120821-24jo4.html#ixzz249IebpGM

    You’ve heard of Tony Abbott. And you know about his sister Christine Forster, who is running as the liberal candidate for lord mayor against Clover Moore in the mayoral elections on September 8.

    Now meet another of Abbott’s three sisters, Jane Vincent, who is also pitching herself into the world of politics, specifically the mayoral race in Mosman. Though she is not running herself, she is one of two names on the ticket supporting local businessman Peter White.

  152. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 21, 2012 1:53 pm

    Abbott did come clean about his mistaken belief that he’d fathered a child. That was a totally embarrassing episode and the end was excruciating funny interesting.

    But Abbott dealt with it early enough to kill it off. Gillard has never addressed her forced resignation from Slater and Gordon.

    Interestingly Jon Faine (ABC) and Ross Stevenson (3AW) are both former Labor lawyers. Both are on morning radio. Faine has started to hint about the scuttlebutt at the time about her actions and relationships.

    I think it will prove irresistible for them. There will be plenty of continuing discussion, all because Gillard has never explained her actions.

  153. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 21, 2012 2:07 pm

    Armie this is the link. I think it is a paywall article.

  154. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 3:24 pm

    thanks sb, the paywall is easily removed – just run the title of the article through google and it will appear un-paywalled as if by magic!

  155. el gordo permalink
    August 21, 2012 3:44 pm

    ‘un-paywalled as if by magic!’

    How widespread is this knowledge?

  156. August 21, 2012 3:50 pm

    Pretty widespread, Gordo. I don’t think News Ltd cares…..yet. The paywall thing is a “testing the water” thing. Stand by for Fairfax to follow suit.

  157. el gordo permalink
    August 21, 2012 3:56 pm

    If paywall leaks, the msm news wing is in deep shit.

  158. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 4:12 pm

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/blogs/the-pulse/politics-live-august-21-2012-20120821-24ja6.html

    1.40pm: Meanwhile, Slater and Gordon managing partner Andrew Grech, is trying to make his voice heard above the rumbling, belching volcano in Canberra.

    He’s just issued this statement, which more strongly backs the Prime Minister, and her version of events; and criticises Nick Styant-Browne – a fromer equity partner at the firm, who spoke to The Australian newspaper at the weekend.

    I’m posting the statement from Mr Grech in full, for the record.

    It reads:
    •Whilst it is understandable that there is great media interest in the details of discussions between former partners of Slater & Gordon and a former employee, we thought it would be helpful for the public to understand the need for legal practitioners to be cautious in relation to the release of such information particularly when it concerns the confidential information of their former clients.
    •The implied criticism of Slater & Gordon to the effect that it should release more information misunderstands the obligations of legal practitioners in relation to confidential communications with clients.
    •The release of confidential communications subject to legal professional privilege is a serious breach of a legal practitioners obligations.
    •On Sunday I gave a clear statement of what I understand to be the facts concerning the resignation of Prime Minister Gillard from Slater & Gordon some 17 years ago based upon the records that we presently hold.
    •Although I have sought to obtain the transcript of interview referred to by The Australian on Saturday 18 August 2012, I have not been provided with it by Mr Styant-Browne.
    •I am therefore not in a position to comment on its authenticity or contents, even if my obligations of confidentiality to former staff permitted me to do so.
    •There is in fact no inconsistency of substance between Mr Styant-Browne’s reported version of events and the facts outlined in the statement already provided by me, or the draft working document provided in confidence to Mr Styant-Browne by Mr Gordon and subsequently provided to The Australian without Mr Gordon’s knowledge or consent by Mr Styant-Browne.
    •Whilst there is a great deal of conjecture and commentary now in the public domain none of it contradicts directly or otherwise the factual account set out in my statement or for that matter the draft working document published in The Australian and Mr Styant-Browne’s own version of events.
    •In particular to my knowledge no one has advanced any credible evidence that there is now any more substance to the allegation first made 17 years ago and denied by Ms Gillard at the time and since that she was in any way aware of or a knowing participant in any wrong doing concerning what has become known as the Wilson/AWU matter.
    •It is regrettable that Mr Styant-Browne has seen fit to release confidential communications.
    •Slater & Gordon has said all that it currently can say based on its own records and subject to its obligations to former staff and former clients.
    •We therefore do not intend to make any further statement unless and until new information comes to light which we are permitted or required to place in the public domain.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/blogs/the-pulse/politics-live-august-21-2012-20120821-24ja6.html#ixzz249s0UHde

  159. el gordo permalink
    August 21, 2012 4:19 pm

    When elected ….Abbott will go ahead with his 15,000 strong green army.

    This is a big vote catcher for estranged left wingers like me.

  160. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 4:29 pm

    (Latham)
    Right-wing politics has a habit of discrediting itself through bizarre conspiracy theories. The Birthers movement in the United States is an example of this process:

    …Not to be outdone, the Australian lunar right, led by former Radio 2UE broadcaster Mike Smith and veteran cartoonist Larry Pickering, has developed an equivalent movement – the aptly-named Brucers…

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/blogs/the-pulse/politics-live-august-21-2012-20120821-24ja6.html#ixzz249wYBnqA

    There’s quite a few questions that john howard and some liberal politicians should answer re iraq war, awb, hicks, habib, haneef, rau, children overboard, brother stanley, the sugar man favours.

    I’d like tony abbott to answer questions about “australians for honest politics trust fund” who were the donors and how did it not get investigated for interference in electoral process, the lawler/jackson/abbott connections and FWA, the ashby/slipper affair.

    I’d like to see lawler appear before the senate to answer queries, i’d like abetz to be questioned as well.

    And none of these have happened 17 yrs ago or before the people involved entered parliament.

  161. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 21, 2012 4:35 pm

    There are a lot of questions that need answering, but Gillard is trying the old Unionland tactic of sweeping them under the carpet with a blanket denial. No doubt she has full confidence in herself. She must think we are all young and naïve!

  162. el gordo permalink
    August 21, 2012 4:36 pm

    Joolya’s Socialist Alliance background and dodgy boyfriend is more newsworthy than that rabble

  163. el gordo permalink
    August 21, 2012 4:51 pm

    This is the latest from Michael Smith….dated yesterday.

  164. August 21, 2012 4:51 pm

    Disappointing, Kittylitter, that despite your political preferences, you appear inclined to simply believe the unbelievable.

    You see, what these continued denials (Rudd/Heiner, Thomson/Hooker, Gillard/AWU) lack is a credible alternative explanation for the documentary evidence before them.

    Here’s how it goes.

    “I did nothing wrong”

    Well someone did something wrong.

    A few people do some digging and come up with concrete evidence that wrong was done.

    New answer.

    “I have answered all of this IN DETAIL MANY TIMES and I did nothing wrong”.

    Just more of the treating of the electorate as imbeciles.

    Boy I hope Abbott initiates a Royal Commission into all of this.

  165. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 5:03 pm

    Disappointing, Kittylitter, that despite your political preferences, you appear inclined to simply believe the unbelievable.

    Same goes for the slater & gordon brucer movement, now who is believing the unbelievable or more likely – dirt unit innuendo, smear and mudslinging.

    Unfortunately the sexism and double standards are alive and well too, no muckraking of male poitician’s past pre politics is ever made into a shitstorm which will apparently “ensure she doesn’t see out the week.”

  166. August 21, 2012 5:17 pm

    “Unfortunately the sexism and double standards are alive and well too, no muckraking of male poitician’s past”

    Not sure Craig Thomson agrees with you.

    The sexists are the ones who focus on Jackson (who exposed the scandal) rather than Thomson and Williamson (who perpetuated it)!

  167. August 21, 2012 5:19 pm

    I believe it, Kittylitter, because I have seen it. First hand. And I have experienced first hand just what happens when you raise it as a potential issue.

    I am a Law student. Julia Gillard was a Partner. I know the implications of setting up an incorporation. So did she. I know the implications of using such incorporations to launder money. So bloody did she. There’s no “young and naive” about it at all. It’s a serious matter. And spare us the sexism crap. It’s the PM who has played the “I’m just a girl” card. Had her heart broken and all the rest. Problem with her heart was its absence when running around with husbands and fathers. And yes I hold Emerson and Wilson in even more contempt.

    Dirt unit my arse. Stood beside Craig Thomson who had “done nothing wrong”. Takes instruction from Bill Shorten who has “seen nothing wrong”. Appoints her old boss to the Federal Court Bench because he’d “done nothing wrong”.

    Seems to me, Kittylitter, that corruption is perfectly ok, providing it’s your side that did it.

  168. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 5:22 pm

    Shock jock Journalism

    …Megalogenis then interprets this downmarket trend to shock-jock journalism in terms of an absence of nuance, even though he acknowledges that Gillard has been verballed on carbon pricing…

    … The fact that Megalogenis calls it a “carbon tax” rather than carbon pricing indicates the problem:—the notable failure of the Canberra Press Gallery to question the way that the Coalition has framed the policy issue of shifting to a low carbon economy. That failure is interpreted by Mark Latham as Abbott being given a free ride in the press.

    Megalogenis says he’s not sure about this (ie., Latham has gone too far). My judgement is that Latham didn’t go far enough:..
    …The problem goes deeper than Abbott’s free ride in the press, the partisan stance of the media, or the media’s big shift to infotainment…

    …The media’s construction of the news is one that gives the impression items about the ecological collapse of the planet are on a par, in terms of moral significance, with everyday items about crime, celebrities, scandals, financial vicissitudes, trends in lifestyle. So the media has become mere “tattlers”, purveyors of tittle tattle, to which people instinctively pay little serious attention…

  169. TB Queensland permalink
    August 21, 2012 5:22 pm

    Has Andrew Grech any relationship with Godwin? It’s an unusual name?

    Not that I’m into family conspiracies like, ToM, is of course … just askin’

  170. el gordo permalink
    August 21, 2012 5:23 pm

    Hear hear ….James.

  171. TB Queensland permalink
    August 21, 2012 5:27 pm

    Boy I hope Abbott initiates a Royal Commission into all of this.

    Yeah, and there goes another pig over the house! If there was a RC it would be a manipulated as the AWB hearings …

  172. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 5:30 pm

    The sexists are the ones who focus on Jackson (who exposed the scandal) rather than Thomson and Williamson (who perpetuated it)!

    I disagree, jackson’s ‘whistleblowing’ has nothig to do with exposing scandal, it has more to do with her own power play in the union takeover. If she was purely exposing scandal, she would not have with held her own wrongdoing in all of it. She wouldn’t be expecting to get something out of it herself and she wouldn’t be using the conflicted actions of her parliamentary protected partner and liberal party money & connections.

    Jackson is the one being used and that is for the political purposes of the libs.

  173. August 21, 2012 5:38 pm

    It’s possible, TB. Both from Melbourne but I understand it’s a Maltese name and the Maltese community down here is fkn enormous.

  174. August 21, 2012 5:39 pm

    What wrongdoing has Kathy Jackson witheld, Kittylitter?

  175. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 5:41 pm

    Seems to me, Kittylitter, that corruption is perfectly ok, providing it’s your side that did it.

    No it’s not james, that’s usually the point that I try to make, that they are all dirty and our political system is seriously corrupted by both labor and liberal politics. We need to get rid of them all.

    My side is not labor or liberal.

    Seriously who the fuck cares about 17 yo shenanigans in a legal firm, not me that’s for sure. How about some focus on actual and real community and social problems, not the irrelevant and fake sideshow antics based on character assassination that only serves to switch the public off.

    We don’t want this shit, we want political leadership, action and solutions to issues of national importance for the country and the public. People are sick and tired of this crap.

  176. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 5:45 pm

    What wrongdoing has Kathy Jackson witheld, Kittylitter?

    Her own misuse of HSU members money, her own involvement in the evidence collecting and investigative process. Her conflict of interest.

  177. August 21, 2012 5:48 pm

    Well you should care, Kittylitter, and here’s why.

    1. The very people who chose to sweep this thing under the carpet are sitting in Cabinet today.
    2. The current trade union leadership, like their predecessors, have made a lot of noise about chasing down money but have yet to recover a cent.
    3. These same people are the Trustees of Superannuation Funds holding literally billions of members’ dollars.
    4. If this thing is not cleaned up the Trade Union movement will die through lack of trust and the working class will have no representation save what they can buy from Slater & Gordon.

    Are we getting there yet?

  178. August 21, 2012 5:49 pm

    Her own misuse of HSU members money, her own involvement in the evidence collecting and investigative process. Her conflict of interest.

    She has always acknowledged she wasn’t lily white. KPMG have said only today that the investigation, whilst it had its deficiencies, was not compromised or influenced.

  179. August 21, 2012 5:51 pm

    “Jackson is the one being used and that is for the political purposes of the libs.”

    This may well be the case.

    But the main reason Gillard is being attacked is as a means of the Libs getting to power. Her gender is incidental.

  180. August 21, 2012 5:56 pm

    The one group not attacking Gillard over AWU is the Libs. They’ve stayed pretty well out of it.

  181. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 6:00 pm

    She has always acknowledged she wasn’t lily white.

    That doesn’t make her innocent nor does it make her actions acceptable or above prosecution.

    KPMG have said only today that the investigation, whilst it had its deficiencies, was not compromised or influenced.

    whilst it had it’s deficiencies?

    Quite a qualification, in other words – compromise and influence!

  182. August 21, 2012 6:02 pm

    “The one group not attacking Gillard over AWU is the Libs. They’ve stayed pretty well out of it.”

    Someone should tell Tony: “Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says the prime minister should make a full statement to parliament about the circumstances under which she left the law firm.

    “I think there are real issues that the prime minister needs to address and if she would like to make a statement to the parliament this week the coalition will gladly facilitate it,” Mr Abbott said.”

  183. August 21, 2012 6:11 pm

    “This may well be the case.

    But the main reason Gillard is being attacked is as a means of the Libs getting to power. Her gender is incidental.”

    Agree! They’ve tried everything they can think of for umpteen months now to try & end our minority government prematurely. Witness the histrionic clamour of Bolt & friends feeding their followers daily dollops of indignant calls for Julia’s head…& stupidly attaching actual vague dates & predictions to when she’ll be gone! (anytime now! this time! now she’s done it! she’ll be gone by the end of the week/month/year…etc.) Many here are guilty of making the same sort of wishful exaltations as each new probing attack is wheeled out.

    I do think the cumulative effect will be Gillard’s undoing, but when is another matter.

    “The one group not attacking Gillard over AWU is the Libs. They’ve stayed pretty well out of it.”

    The Libs are despicable pieces of shit, loathed widely not stupid all the time . They know that once the mud has been thrown it does most of its own snowballing. If they maintain a ‘safe’ distance from appearing instigators then they get to claim plausible deniability in the eyes of their slavering horde. ALP rusted-ons already blame them for everything anyway, real or imagined.

  184. August 21, 2012 6:26 pm

    “They’ve tried everything they can think of for umpteen months now to try & end our minority government prematurely. Witness the histrionic clamour of Bolt & friends feeding their followers daily dollops of indignant calls for Julia’s head”

    If this is the way politics will be played from now on then we are all in big trouble. All attempts at formulating and implementing policy are derailed by salacious distractions. When rumours and lies dominate public discourse there isn’t much scope for sound government.

  185. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 6:39 pm

    The one group not attacking Gillard over AWU is the Libs. They’ve stayed pretty well out of it.

    Sure james, they are doing what they always do – loading the gun with bullets then getting someone else to pull the trigger. Why else has this ancient history even got into the media when no one is interested in it, why is toxic tony pronouncing the “genuine discussion to be had” crap?

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/the-pm-an-old-flame-and-a-lot-of-smoke-20120818-24f3m.html#ixzz24ANhGUee

    …Pickering’s storyline has become grubbier and more personal. By his own admission, he uses a lot of poetic licence…
    …”I have used melodrama,” Pickering tells The Sun-Herald. ”That is what gets people in and gets them interested.”…

    In other words, making shit up.

    ...Most of the mainstream media have avoided the story with the exception of The Australian, which has shown a renewed interest in the allegations…

    About the same time the asby/slipper stitch up went pear shaped, they needed another ‘line of attack’ to keep the pm under siege.

    …The head of Thiess at the time was Mr Wilson’s brother-in-law, Joe Trio, and the documents show that he told police he did not believe the company had been defrauded…

    And they wouldn’t lay any charges – end of story, but don’t let that stop the dummyspitting from those angry old white men who hate the carbon tax.

    …Pickering, meanwhile, is vowing to continue. He says he is being provided with the intimate details by people who want the truth to finally come out. Among them, he says, are former unionists, former employees of Mr Wilson and some members and former members of the Labor Party…

    Yet another political character assassination, that’s how we do it here, lies, leaks innuendo and smear.

    …If you believe the cartoonist, Larry Pickering, whose dislike for Julia Gillard is palpable in his sometimes obscene cartoons,…

    I’ve seen his misogyny cartoons and they most certainly say more about pickering than they do gillard.

    Why Telstra is publishing Pickering’s disgusting porn? :

    http://accidentalaussie.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/why-telstra-is-publishing-pickerings-disgusting-porn/

    Hasn’t pickering got liberal party connections, he is himself a failed liberal party candidate for election,he lives on the gold coast, another stronghold and bastion of the angry old white men.

  186. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 21, 2012 6:57 pm

    But the main reason Gillard is being attacked is as a means of the Libs getting to power. Her gender is incidental.

    I don’t think so, not when many of the attacks have been sexist in nature and abbott continues to blow a subtle and sexist dog whistle in all of his staged media shows and parliamentary performances.

  187. James of North Melbourne permalink
    August 21, 2012 7:07 pm

    Pickering is the equivalent of Wicks, and just as full of shit. That he is reporting on the issue doesn’t make the key allegations false. They arise out of affidavits sworn by key people at the time. People who have been threatened, sidelined, even bashed.

    Been following QT with interest. Not one on Gillard and the AWU. Unlike Turnbull, Abbott knows when to keep his powder dry.

  188. August 21, 2012 7:08 pm

    Abbott wants power at all costs. That is his main motivation. Gillard is just roadkill to him.

  189. el gordo permalink
    August 21, 2012 7:16 pm

    ‘Seriously who the fuck cares about 17 yo shenanigans in a legal firm’

    Its a question of integrity, the PM fails to differentiate between right and wrong.

    The voters want to know if joolya is corrupt… these ordinary folk are showing symptoms of tall poppy syndrome. Which is very Australian.

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