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IBOGAINE: THE “ADDICTION CURE” BIG PHARMA’S DON’T WANT YOU TO HAVE

November 16, 2012

Ibogaine_290px_12_04_15

There’s been a starting development in the treatment drug addiction that offers users a chance to break their addiction once and for all.

It’s called Ibogaine, a plant extract from the root bark of the central West African shrub Tabernanthe Iboga .

It has been used for thousands of years by Pygmies for spiritual development and as a rite of passage into adulthood.

Its properties as a treatment to stop opiate withdrawal were unknown until the late 1960’s. Since then studies undertaken by research and academic facilities have shown that Ibogaine is “an effective addiction interrupter for most substances including heroin, methadone, methamphetamine, cocaine, alcohol, and nicotine.”

How Ibogaine Works

Ibogaine alleviates the physical withdrawal symptoms of opiate detoxification by “resetting” and “refreshing” the opiate receptor site within the brain to their original condition before substance abuse began.

How this is done is still not fully understood, however no other known substance has shown this method of restorative action.

Once this process is complete, no further use of Ibogaine is necessary.

It functions in a similar way to treatments that block or take residence in the receptor sites that normally harbor chemical substances. However, unlike methadone or suboxone, which lead to chemical dependency, Ibogaine is non-addictive and doesn’t need to be taken on a continuing basis.

Ibogaine treats other chemical dependencies by cleansing the body of the drugs, and resetting the brain’s neuron-chemistry.

It appears and feels as if the memory of dependency is removed from the mind and body. It addresses cravings from the metabolite Nor-ibogaine.

This may take a couple of days to fully set up for stimulants and alcohol. Ibogaine also works to rebalance the brain chemistry and level out dopamine, serotonin, endorphins, adrenaline etc. to a pre-addicted state.

This helps the individual to feel better much more quickly, especially compared to quitting a substance cold turkey where it can take weeks or even months to regain the balance in neurotransmitters after discontinued use.

After ingestion, Ibogaine is converted by the liver into nor-Ibogaine, which stores up in the fat cells of the body. This is the true healer; it curbs the cravings and takes away the thoughts for using. It can take up to 72 to 96 hours post treatment for these effects to really be experienced.

It has a documented anti-depressive effect that establishes a state of well-being, free from negative thought patterns.

How it works

The Awakened Dream State

Ibogaine can provide individuals with critical insights into the origins of their addiction process or other unhealthy behavior patterns. This is experienced acutely during the first hours after administration when the conscious and unconscious aspects of the mind are merged.

During this “awakened dream” state, past events, even those which the individual is not conscious of, may come to the surface of your thoughts. Many individuals have suddenly understood or clarified past traumatic events or situations that, in part, have led to their present life condition.

In effect, years of therapy can be replicated in a matter of hours. This is not experienced visually by everyone. It varies depending on what you are using and current health conditions etc.

This can be a very beneficial experience, but even if there are no dreams or even clear messages the Ibogaine still does the job of resetting and rebalancing the body and mind.

The Introspective Phase

This initial phase is followed by a period of introspection during which the information that was revealed during the journey is processed. The full range of emotions may be experienced during these first 24-36 hours, and most people require some down time to recuperate physically. This medicine can be very hard on the body. Some people feel so depleted that they are unable to leave their bed. Occasionally individuals may be completely overcome emotionally by what has been revealed to them, and some may become very depressed.

Ibogaine moves energy in the body around, so many things may need your attention emotionally. It’s like a release valve opens, and it’s suggested to allow everything to come out, whatever it may look like. This is a large part of the healing process.

The thoughts and emotions that come up during this time are being released from the body and psyche. While this may be uncomfortable for some, it is important to remember that, in large part, the success of your treatment is dependent on allowing this process to fully run its course.

You might think that a one-step proven treatment for opiate addiction would be welcome, and you’d be right. However Ibogaine is a prohibited substance in the US, Australia and Europe.   It is available in treatment centres if Canada and New Zealand.

So why is it taking so long to roll out Ibogaine?  The answer is money.

Large American pharmaceutical companies like Glaxo maintain a strangle hold on the lucrative addict treatment market.   They make their multi-million dollar profits with opiate replacements like Methadone and Naltrexone.

As such they are currently attempting to discredit Ibogaine’s effectiveness by saying it causes hallucinations and therefore should not qualify as an appropriate treatment.

 

 

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56 Comments leave one →
  1. el gordo permalink
    November 16, 2012 7:33 pm

    This is all good news, except for the end part about the filthy capitalist. We want our revolution and we want it now.

    Some interesting insights in the post, which I’ll mull over for awhile.

  2. el gordo permalink
    November 17, 2012 9:24 am

    Epiphany…

    ‘During this “awakened dream” state, past events, even those which the individual is not conscious of, may come to the surface of your thoughts. Many individuals have suddenly understood or clarified past traumatic events or situations that, in part, have led to their present life condition.

    ‘In effect, years of therapy can be replicated in a matter of hours.’

  3. November 17, 2012 11:41 am

    Here is a documentary on Ibogaine…

  4. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 17, 2012 1:31 pm

    It has a documented anti-depressive effect that establishes a state of well-being, free from negative thought patterns.

    I want it, now!

  5. el gordo permalink
    November 17, 2012 3:04 pm

    Glaxo executives also need a dose.

  6. el gordo permalink
    November 17, 2012 4:51 pm

    No need to import it, we have a local variety…apparently.

    http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8331

  7. November 18, 2012 6:20 am

    Fascinating post Reb. I reckon you`re pretty spot on about big phama too. It looks like ibogaine is getting the same obstacles medical marijana and hemp gets from big-biz owned governments.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine

  8. November 18, 2012 6:30 am

    gordo and his Link “we have a local variety”
    Well no Gordo, your Link is to a question,
    but no answer.

  9. el gordo permalink
    November 18, 2012 10:29 am

    Must have been a brain fade, the plant is found in the tropical north.

  10. November 18, 2012 10:35 am

    thanks 730….

    Ibogaine is being hailed as a miracle cure by those who are able to access it.

    Unlike other medical treatments for addiction, it only requires one treatment – a session which lasts 36 hours.

    That’s why the big pharmaceutical companies are desperate to keep it off the shelves as it would completely destroy the market for their medications like Methadone and Naltrexone which require a life-time of usage.

    Another fascinating quality of Ibogaine is that it actually repairs and restores the structure of the brain to it’s pre-addiction state – something that no other medicines are capable of doing.

    So users after treatment emerge feeling as if they have never used in the first place.

    There are no cravings or withdrawal symptoms.

    Anecdotally it has a very high success rate. However there are no official figures as the US govt so far has refused requests to provide $10m towards a scientific study of Ibogaine.

    Instead the US govt is considering awarding Glaxo Smith Cline $300m towards funding a new generation of addiction treatments (that would require ongoing long term consumption).

    Ibogaine is currently banned in the US and is listed as a “schedule one drug” meaning that it has “no medical use.”

    Go figure…

  11. November 18, 2012 11:17 am

    If gordo is correct (I know, that`s a big if) then there is really no reason Queensland shouldn`t be `curing` drug addicts. I won`t go into a shopping list, but this ibogaine topic is probably a great example of why I dislike both parties, state and federal. They will all bleat the yanks don`t approve it, instead of taking the initiative and leadership of doing something worthwhile in the world. I don`t know how the ibogaine is used/prepared, but if pygmy tribes have been using it for years/decades/centuries, then it is probably something simple like boiling up some bark or leaves into a tea.

  12. November 18, 2012 12:00 pm

    Typical bloody wiki,
    I was looking for `preparation` wiki uses ..

    Formulations

    In Bwiti religious ceremonies, the rootbark is pulverized and swallowed in large amounts to produce intense psychoactive effects. In Africa, iboga rootbark is sometimes chewed, which releases small amounts of ibogaine to produce a stimulant effect. Ibogaine is also available in a total alkaloid extract of the Tabernanthe iboga plant, which also contains all the other iboga alkaloids and thus has only about one-fifth the potency by weight as standardized ibogaine hydrochloride

    Wiki says elsewhere ibogaine oxidizes,
    (which probably effects it`s consumability)

    Long story short, this can be shipped nationwide.
    Logistics in the `bulk` instance, (off the farm) would be to simply put it on a truck to factory.
    Logistics in the `retail` instance (for consumer) would be to package the rootbark in single serves, identical to potato crisps.
    Consumer would only need to pulverize (vitamiser, blender) with some water and drink.

  13. November 18, 2012 12:50 pm

    This post is pretty good too,
    and has a very good/clear ibogaine plant photo.
    http://my.opera.com/lambchop777/blog/ibogaine-natures-cure-for-drug-addiction-read-on

  14. November 18, 2012 4:47 pm

    BTW I’ve tried it.

    It works.

    The voodoo shit is real…

  15. el gordo permalink
    November 18, 2012 5:26 pm

    Congrats.

  16. November 19, 2012 3:59 am

    watch this Ibogaine video in the news https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBgaVTwnIlc

  17. November 19, 2012 4:01 am

    Ibogaine in the news https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9aAnBhz5Kw

  18. November 28, 2012 5:15 pm

    Gordo found a good link, has 4 nice photos to pop on `iodine-bush`, well done Gordo.

  19. el gordo permalink
    November 28, 2012 5:28 pm

    That’s alright, we could corner the market.

    I have it on good authority that its a panacea and all we have to do is convince governments to consider drug law reform on medicinal grounds.

  20. el gordo permalink
    November 30, 2012 8:40 am

    ‘Ibogaine is a psychedelic, dream creating drug.’

    That’s why its illegal.

    Drug law reform is an essential first step in emptying the gaols.

  21. November 30, 2012 2:06 pm

    Ibogaine is illegal because it ends opiate, suboxone, methadone dependency in less than 72 hours. That means no more addiction to those pills = money loss to those who pedal those drugs.

  22. December 1, 2012 8:24 pm

    I agree with the sentiments “Ibogaine Treatment,” however I also note the emergence of so-called Ibogaine treatment “sanctuaries” and “resorts” that charge anywhere between $5000 to $10,000 for a three day treatment, a treatment which should in fact cost around $300 – $500 without the unnecessary accommodation.

    I find it hard to justify how some so-called sanctuaries and resorts are charging $10,000 for a 3 day treatment when the Ibogaine itself only costs a couple of hundred bucks.

  23. TB Queensland permalink
    December 1, 2012 9:21 pm

    I find it hard to justify how some so-called sanctuaries and resorts …

    Maybe the professional counselling and supervision, rather than just taking a drug with hallucinatory probability …

    http://www.ibeginagain.org/faqs.shtml

  24. December 21, 2012 6:32 am

    Well that’s really great and I appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time to discuss this, I feel strongly about it and love learning more on this topic.

  25. el gordo permalink
    December 21, 2012 7:44 am

    Ibogaine’s illegality (because it creates a mild hallucination) is ridiculous.

  26. el gordo permalink
    December 21, 2012 2:59 pm

    The Daily Trash should run a campaign to decriminalise Ibogaine and in a few short years there will be reasonably inexpensive hideaway clinics dotted around Australia.

  27. February 2, 2013 8:27 am

    Reblogged this on The Australian Independent Media Network and commented:

    I originally penned this post late last year, and thought that it may be of interest to the good folk at AIMN….

  28. February 2, 2013 8:49 am

    I don’t get it. Suppose I have just spent 72 hours on it and I now have no physical addiction or cravings.. My first act is going to be going to use because I can now. Woohoo! I can use without having to spend so much money! Yay, I’m not an alcoholic any more, I can go to the pub and get pissed! How many overdose deaths are there going be in the first week of it’s release? What’s to stop people from re-addicting themselves? This is just the same old crap that came in with the so-called at the time ‘magic pill’ Naltrexone.. Treat a physical condition and say that it is a cure, but totally ignore that the social situation of the person who uses means that they will just go back to using. What coping mechanisms does it give to a person after they have found enlightenment of past trauma? Do they all-of-a-sudden know how to cope with everything life throws at them? A desire to use drugs is about a lot more than a physical craving and a knee jerk reaction to past stress. As a recovering addict who hasn’t used anything for over 20 years, my initial response to Ibogaine was “Far out, I could use again!” Straight into it.. That reaction on my part is always an indication to me that I’d be in big trouble if I took it 😀

  29. TB Queensland permalink
    February 2, 2013 9:35 am

    That reaction on my part is always an indication to me that I’d be in big trouble if I took it

    Sounds to me that you haven’t read all the posts above … supervision of the use is discussed and recommended … your argument only reinforces that self help is not the answer … you should seek help, judging from your post ..

  30. el gordo permalink
    February 2, 2013 9:37 am

    Valentine poses some thought provoking questions.

    Returning to one’s old haunts and friendly associations may prove to be a problem, but having a quiet smoke beforehand is worth a shot… then water thereafter.

  31. February 2, 2013 9:42 am

    @TB Queensland.. Just how long exactly do you want me to have supervision for?

  32. TB Queensland permalink
    February 2, 2013 10:04 am

    V, just to be polite, I don’t want you to have anything …

  33. February 2, 2013 10:06 am

    “Suppose I have just spent 72 hours on it and I now have no physical addiction or cravings.. My first act is going to be going to use because I can now. “

    Then you’d just become addicted again, or worse, probably overdose and die, as your tolerance would be low.

    Perhaps looking at Ibogaine as an “addiction interrupter” may be me more useful. It allows people to reassess their situation free from the physical cravings and withdrawal symptoms typically associated with drug cessation.

  34. February 2, 2013 10:34 am

    I’d prefer not to have an addiction interrupter that has side affects of hallucinations, flash-backs to trauma and depression. Detox would be easier.

  35. February 2, 2013 10:38 am

    Fair enough. it is your choice…

    Unfortunately for those who would like to try it, it is not available.

  36. February 2, 2013 4:18 pm

    Seems to me, from what l`ve seen, the addict would actually have to WANT to quit their drug use. lf they actually DON`T WANT to quit, but are say `court-ordered` to do any `treatment`, it seems treatment failure rates are HIGH. Like any treatment, the point of this post is for another `tool` being available for those who WANT to quit.

  37. sulphurcrested permalink
    February 4, 2013 9:26 am

    Came across reports about Ibogaine on the net some years ago. I hear there is a clinic in NZ where treatment is available and supervised.
    It is morally bankrupt and criminal that powerful vested interests block people’s easy access to treatments.

  38. May 22, 2013 4:32 am

    Although well intended, this article has quite some mistakes in it, and, like many other articles, names Ibogaine an ‘addiction cure’. Ibogaine is not a cure of addiction, nothing is. Addiction is not a simple illness that can be cured with a pill, it is a complex psycho-bio-social problem that has many implications that all need to be addressed if long term success is aimed for in treatment. And that is exactly what Ibogaine initiates; a process of introspection in which underlying patterns of problematic drug use are understood, while craving is diminished or totally eliminated during weeks to months, and the withdrawal from opiates is blocked. What Ibogaine doesn’t do is change your environment, solve the family issues that might be related to drug abuse, get you a new meaningful day-activity, solve your money problems, etc. It catalyzes and facilitates a therapeutic process in a very profound way, allowing people to break a habit they could never break, but it doesn’t do the work for you… it is not a cure. It requires hard work. Furthermore, Ibogaine is only illegal in the US, France, Belgium, Switzerland, Sweden, Poland, Australia (schedule 3) and in Hungary it is currently being studied for scheduling by the authorities. Ibogaine is not on the international lists of controlled psychotropic substances of the INCB. Ibogaine’s mechanisms of action are very complex, and only a few of them are known, such as the stimulation of GDNF growth, energy metabolism, etc. Also important to note is that Ibogaine has effects on the repolarization of the heart, causing bradycardia and the prolongation of the QT interval. It is very dangerous to combine with other substances (drug of abuse, certain medications, etc.), and should not be taken by people with personality disorders (schizofrenia, etc.) or people with history of psychosis. Taking ibogaine by yourself is not safe (although it is clear that for some this can be chosen over the risk of extreme drug addiction), but it is advised to take it with an experienced treatment provider. If you are interested in taking ibogaine, start with reading our website: http://www.iceers.org, check out our youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/iceers, and our blog http://news.iceers.org.

    Best Wishes,

    The ICEERS Foundation

  39. Love_23 permalink
    June 13, 2013 10:48 am

    It’s a damn shame so many of our family members could’ve been treated in a doctors office, with a prescription of Ibogaine…….don’t get me wrong I know you have to be supervised and all but shit, I had a blood clot from my groin to the middle of my thigh, you think they didn’t send my ass home with warfarin. And if you don’t take that right you could bleed from the brain. I’m 23 and I’m clear of blood clots…..unsupervised! I’m sure you get the point.

  40. Love_23 permalink
    June 13, 2013 10:51 am

    And I always piss the doctors off because I tell them what’s going on with my body before they do, thanks to nursing school, and google…lol

  41. taija permalink
    March 8, 2014 2:21 pm

    I had the pleasure of doing ibogaine to cure my addiction to crystal meth. and it worked! I’m 100% better. this stuff is a miracle. We need to legalize it. I feel like i never even used meth and am therefor free from the feelings of needing it. god bless iboga

  42. May 24, 2014 11:18 pm

    6 years ago I was fascinated by Ibogaine. I studied its origin, its chemical make up, its ritual practice by the bwiti and I saved up 6k and flew to Mexico to get it done for a methadone addiction. I would get it done another 3 times before giving up on it. I thought each time would be the time that worked for me. The only good thing I have to say about it is the out of body visions I has which were full sensory audio and visual intetnse future and past visions and visions sent to me by an african lady with a painted tribal face who called herself mother Iboga. She showed me how we reincarnate thousands of times and each time we change lives wwe keep the same friends and family or at least the same soul group that is playing the roles of our friends and our family but each lifetime they change positions, such as my mother may be my wife or father next life or my brother may be my enemy or my wife, etc… we all change genders and rolls to learn from each energy to grow and evolve as a soul. Very touching and life altering experience but very hard on the body and you must prepare to be bed ridden for 6 to 16 days with a guide to assist you with using the restroom and eating drinking. It depletes your hearts electrolytes which can cause a fib so coconut water is a must. You cant sleep for at least 6 days which is rough. I had a much easier time using suboxone for 30 days and tapering off. I did come across the ultimate answer to opiate withdrawal tho. it’s unbelievable. Was a cure for opiate addiction discovered over 30 years ago and then suppressed by gov officials of Australia? Were 2 doctors that discovered it told that it could not get out because 2 many people would lose their jobs behind it and half the rehabs in the country could close? I have this secret and you can get it at NoMoreOpiateWithdrawal.weebly.com

  43. nicholas permalink
    April 14, 2019 3:09 am

    The US government lies about EVERYTHING . From Jefferson’s Articles of the Confederacy to Lincoln actually wanting to free the slaves . Lets also not forget our own “LEBENSRAUM” in German , living space . This was Hitler’s plan to gain more land in the East for his own people. At least Hitler did not LIE . If you read Mein Kampf and followed his early political career you knew what he was going to do. The US lies constantly. The Native Americans were effectively wiped out , more than what Hitler did to the Jews in Europe . They were demonized in the press , put in concentration camps , raped and murdered .Now the ones left live in abject poverty . A US Senator’s median net worth is 3.2 million . What is your net worth minus your mortgage and other bills? You are 3 paychecks away from eating out of a dumpster . Why do you think there has been little trouble in Afghanistan ? Because there are US troops guarding warlords poppy plants from the Taliban . The amount of Heroin has increased 80-90% and purity levels have reached the same levels. They want your children hooked on dope . Because they make billions and billions for your child to stop . Can’t you see it ? No you can’t . You are too busy pushing buttons on your cell phone or cheating on your spouse . There is no such thing as an American race except Native Americans . We are all slaves . The government and Big Pharma have a plan for population control . It is already starting. Open your eyes , HIV , TB , measles , introducing drugs like Prep so people do not use condoms and therefore spread more disease . Remember this word : QUARANTINE . That is going to be the US government’s euphemism for extermination , just like resettlement in Nazi Germany . In 1858 Lincoln did not want blacks to vote , sit on juries , inter-marry , join the military , etc. He wanted to send the blacks to Central America or Madagascar . As late as 4/11/1865 at a dinner with free blacks he argued for limited black suffrage . Does this sound like a man who wanted to free the slaves ? The civil war was about money and power . Honest , lying Abe wanted money from the tobacco and cotton the South was selling to Europe . He also wanted more power vested in the federal government . But the South said NO ! Read The Articles of The Confederacy that gives very limited power to the federal government and it’s Gestapo . Duh . That is why they were called The Confederates . There should be a memorial to John Wilkes Booth rather than Hitler , oops I meant Lincoln who practically suspended The Bill of Rights . Even a congressman’s net worth is $900,000 . Are you worth anything near that minus your bills.? If OPEC ever stopped accepting the US dollar as their only currency for payment , there will be such a crash in The US economy it will make The Depression seem like a minor recession. Now I am severely disabled so I sit in many doctor’s office’s. Crooks , lackey’s all. I see Big Pharma’s salesmen with their cheap suits and over-sized briefcases glad handing it with the doctor’s. Suboxone is poison. You cannot quit . Methadone is poison . You cannot quit . Rehab centers do now work. Look at their total recovery % . It’s very low . You are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars that just get funneled into Big Pharma’s and our politicians pockets . If Ibogaine were legal there goes their hundreds of billions. It has less of a chance of being made legal by the FDA than I have of becoming a billionaire . The only reason why the government wants to make recreational marijuana legal is because they will tax it to death and laugh all the way to the bank. If you add up every tax you pay in NYC , sales tax , income tax , local , state and federal , gas tax , etc . you are paying over 60% of your salary in taxes . Has anything I have written being taught in schools ? Are you kidding . The government wants your children . They want boys to be girls and girls to be boys . Imagine girls playing football or hockey with men . It’s hormones government . Men have testosterone and women have estrogen. That is why women are kinder , more gentle and nurturing . And men more violent , larger in body mass and more aggressive . Now there are 3 kinds of lies , lies , damn lies and statistics . Now in NYS our benevolent governor has increased the minimum wage to over $15.00 . Now I have heard literally dozens of stories and I can’t really go out of people being laid off and other workers now doing 2 , 3 and 4 jobs because of all the layoffs . C’mon now , does a guy flipping burgers at a fast food joint deserve $30,000+ a year when teachers make about that . But our government will come out with it’s own lies , oops I meant statistics saying everything is rosy while NY unemployment level is actually reaching depression levels. Reb above writes that Glaxo is being given $300 MILLION to develop more controlling drugs that will be harder to kick . I have had one hip replaced , one hip re-surfaced , my right shoulder has 2 cysts , a total tear , like ripped in 1/2 rotator cuff , and is unusable. My left shoulder and right knee are in similar condition and my left knee has a torn meniscus . I have had 3 major operations over the last 10-12 years and therefore got hooked on opiates . I did not like it and didn’t want methadone so I figured suboxone was the best bet . Boy was I wrong . I take 3,200 mg. of Ibuprofen a day because doctor’s hide under their desks at the mention of opiates . My primary doctor wanted me to take Mobic that besides having tons of side effects has a serious contradiction with a medication I already take. When they test your urine , you do not know about cross contamination or chain of evidence or are they lying to get you into to some program that you don’t need . Even writing this I am afraid of The Gestapo and their willing accomplices The Totenkopfverbande . Look it up. I live in a state of terror , constant fear and anxiety because I know we live in a dictatorship . If you do not have a ton of money you are a total slave . That’s it in a nutshell. In my capacity in my job I worked for The NYS Attorney General’s office per diem , too bad . An assistant AG who I was assigned to called me and I quote the most honest man he has ever met . Writing this scares the hell out of me. And why ? Because I am telling the truth . And The Gestapo is all knowing and all seeing and there is a reason why per capita The US has the largest prison population in the world , So be afraid , be very AFRAID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  44. April 14, 2019 7:00 pm

    Nicholas makes a lot of sense.

  45. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 14, 2019 8:50 pm

    It’s a wide ranging commentary.

    But…”Has anything I have written being taught in schools ?” 

    It’s just a pity that students are missing out!

  46. TB Queensland permalink
    April 15, 2019 10:17 am

    Just in case you missed it … (apologies, at first I thought you were ignoring it, then realised you wouldn’t do that) 🙂

    ToM

    I went back to your original supposition … Take the annual taxpayer subisdy and divide it by the number of cars manufactured.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Australia

    Take the lowest number of vehicles manufactured – 167,538 2015

    Being generous @ $200,000,000 (its actually closer to $100,000,000)

    You do the numbers …

    So you’re happy with taxpayers subsidising submarines to the tune of $50 billion over four years?

  47. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 15, 2019 11:19 am

    I answered you TB, and Neil pointed out a different number for motor vehicles and subsidy. I didn’t notice you dealt with that!

  48. Tom R permalink
    April 15, 2019 1:16 pm

    yomms evidence is nil?

    I think my internets just broeke lol

  49. TB Queensland permalink
    April 15, 2019 5:11 pm

    I answered you TB, and Neil pointed out a different number for motor vehicles and subsidy. I didn’t notice you dealt with that!

    You still haven’t answered my question about you thousands of dollars per car and where and how your information came from … and you quote Neeeeel as support – neither did he … LOL!

    Is it possible you were w-r-o-o-o-n-g? Chuckle …

    I have a little more information now, if you’re not sure?

  50. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 15, 2019 6:09 pm

    I think i may have overestimated the subsidy per car and i think you’ve underestimated it.
    Neil provided a link with the data!

  51. TB Queensland permalink
    April 15, 2019 6:38 pm

    ToM,

    I didn’t underestimate anything – I even showed you the calculation … very conservative too (and you should understand that) …

    … what you did is burble Liberal Party BS … without checking the evidence … Neeel delights in calling ALP supporters liars … when in fact most of it comes from the LNP …

    Neeeeeel’s (link CarsGuide)

    Actual number produced in 2013 – 210,538 …

    You do realise that if I used that number the results are worse … for you …

    Neeel’s links are like is comments … I’m a little disappointed that you prefer Neeeeel’s links over my links … And the fact that I used the lower figure for production and the higher figure for subsidy … both in your favour …

    Let’s use Neeeeel’s figure instead … nah, you can do the maths …

  52. TB Queensland permalink
    April 15, 2019 6:38 pm

    Neil provided a link with the data!

    Ya reckon?

  53. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 16, 2019 11:50 am

    No idea what you’re on about TB!!

  54. TB Queensland permalink
    April 16, 2019 1:36 pm

    LOL!

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