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Rostrum!

January 11, 2013

David-bowie-ziggy-stardust-make-up1

 

This week’s Rostrum is a piece by Suzanne Moore that originally appeared in the Guardian this week…

I don’t care if you were born a woman or became one

Sexuality used to be the big battle. Now we need to unite in anger against the breakdown of the social contract…

I only had sex because of David Bowie.

It would have been better if I had only had sex with David Bowie. But you can’t have everything. Though for a while, he was everything. In that Paleolithic period when we gathered round the TV to watchTop of the Pops, my mum would say, ”Christ, is it a boy or a girl?” every time he appeared.

My grandad, who was deaf (so we always had the TV at full volume), was particularly perturbed by Bryan Ferry. ”It’s a woman, you stupid woman!” he would yell at my mother.

In real life, however, the working-class lads I knew were starting to wear make-up, and I was starting to fancy them. So thank you, David, for the new Robert Wyatt-esque single, and thank you for making me sexually confused. And aroused. Bisexuality! Whoah! You could do it with anyone. Civilisation would fall as a result.

Well, it didn’t. We moved on. Gayness was still closeted and shameful. It took guts. It still does.

Some of the gutsiest people I met were the transsexuals who worked in a club called Boys will be Girls in New Orleans. I was a waitress and I served them breakfast at 5am and they were so kind to me. Many had had botched surgery in Morocco and their lives were more than difficult.

Later on, I would go to college and do a lot of queer studies, embracing at various stages porn, S&M, gender dissonance. It was all very postmodern. Anyone could be anything. In theory. And the theory was Judith Butler, Michel Foucault, Julia Kristeva, Leo Bersani and those guys.

Gender, we thought, was just a performance, a social construct, though no one ever explained why we are compelled to repeat the same performance over and over. I had a baby, which was somehow more than ”performative”. Others I knew had sex change, or transitioning, as it is now called.

Mostly this seemed to be an obsession with secondary sexual characteristics: peeing sitting down if they had been a man, wearing horrible lumberjack shirts and refusing to wash up if they had been a woman. The radical fluidity of gender vapourised. Some trans people appeared to reinforce every gender stereotype going.

To say this, though, is apparently controversial. This week, in an essay reprinted in the New Statesman magazine about female anger, I used the throwaway line that the desired body for women is that of ”a Brazilian transsexual”. For this I have been attacked on Twitter for ”transphobia”. I made it worse – well why not? – by saying that I don’t like the word.

I don’t think it adds to our understanding of the complex webs of hatred it invokes, but instead closes down discussion.

The same with ”intersectionality”, the new buzzword. Though not that new: I know my bell hooks. It means we must understand our own privilege: the multiple oppressions of race, class, culture and sexuality.

I speak as a white woman of privilege, though I was indeed born in the wrong body. It should have been fashion model Gisele Bundchen’s.

Intersectionality is good in theory, though in practice, it means that no one can speak for anyone else. It is the dead-end where much queer politics, feminist politics and identity politics ends up. In its own rectum. It refuses to engage with many other political discourses and becomes the old hierarchy of oppression.

What I was actually talking about was the way that women should be more angry about what is happening to us. I believe in anger. Everything I wanted for my daughters and yours is being denied them: housing, free education, employment.

It makes me nauseous to see the feckless elite kick single parents in the face. It makes me ill that meritocracy is the ruling-class myth, that policy is not about economics but rancid ideology. I wanted to say again that feminism is not a white, middle-class concern: look at Sierra Leone, Egypt, India.

When I say ”women”, I don’t much care if you were born or became one. I am with RuPaul: ”Honey, we are born naked, the rest is drag.”

What I do care about is something that is deeply old-fashioned: solidarity.

I may not be your colour or your culture, or share your sexual preferences, but open your eyes to what we need to do.

This is not some glitch in the uber-sexual matrix; in Britain the current Tory government makes Margaret Thatcher look tame. The boot is in your face if you are not one of them.

In Iceland, they put bankers in prison for fraud. In Britain we give them knighthoods.

So to be told that I hate transgendered people feels a little … irrelevant. Other people’s genital arrangements are less interesting to me than the breakdown of the social contract. I am asking for anger and for alliances. Less divide and rule. So call me a freak.

”Where are we now?” Bowie sings. A very long way off from the days when we all felt that his very being was a pathway to freedom.

 

 

 

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376 Comments leave one →
  1. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 11, 2013 12:30 pm

    …It makes me nauseous to see the feckless elite kick single parents in the face. It makes me ill that meritocracy is the ruling-class myth, that policy is not about economics but rancid ideology. I wanted to say again that feminism is not a white, middle-class concern: look at Sierra Leone, Egypt, India.

    What I do care about is something that is deeply old-fashioned: solidarity.

    Agree. Lots to think about in that post reb

    Mourn for our lost compassion and humanity in these times of’ complete and utter slavery to the almighty $.

    The economy should exist to serve all people not just the wealthy few and it should be heavily regulated.

  2. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 11, 2013 12:41 pm

    I yearn for the tipping point, when people say “that’s enough, I won’t take it anymore” and surge into the streets demanding a stop to the evil collusion between governments and corporations acting against the best interests and will of the people.

    Get angry and fight dem back! This non-violence protest thing is only a way of keeping people controlled, use whatever force necessary and a mass civil uprising/disobedience. It is the only way to force change, it won’t be coming otherwise.

  3. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 11, 2013 1:12 pm

    I don’t mind civil disobedience, I’ve even participated in some. But I object to people who dishonestly set about damaging legitimate businesses.

    Publicly listed organisations have too many diverse stakeholders to tolerate manipulation by narrow interest groups. Self funded retirees, superannuation funds that employees rely on, individual investors , employees are all entitled to have their interests protected.

    The disgruntled are welcome to chain themselves to trees for as long as they wish, throw eggs at the owners, disrupt annual general meetings, buy a few shares and use this to circulate notices, putting out their press releases condemning the company, whatever. But damaging holders of shares, members of superannuation funds etc is just wrong.

  4. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 11, 2013 1:38 pm

    “This non-violence protest thing is only a way of keeping people controlled, use whatever force necessary and a mass civil uprising/disobedience”

    Lets have a few 1930s anti semetic type nights of mayhem and slaughter says AO

    I agree lets cleanse society finally and just bring it on

    And unlike the 1930s I’d welcome whatever force necessary to counteract it. Stop it in its tracks immediately and break a few skulls.

    AO just couldn’t give a rats arse about a civilised society. Typical anarchist.

  5. January 11, 2013 2:13 pm

    I thought you’d enjoy Suzanne’s piece Kittylitter… 🙂

    It’s interesting in the context of our local story of Jonathon Moylan and the Green’s support of his “elaborate hoax”…

    “Jonathan Moylan was spectacularly successful in getting the issue of prevention on our newspapers’ front pages. Moylan pulled off an elegant hoax. By issuing a fake media release saying ANZ had pulled its $1.2 billion loan from Whitehaven Coal mines on ethical grounds, he disrupted markets and invited public scrutiny of an industry that is driving the climate change that has led to a new category of emergency.”

    Jonathan Moylan should receive our thanks, not condemnation or charges.

    Interesting to note that the fascist pigs conservatives think a little differently…

  6. January 11, 2013 2:16 pm

    “….individual investors , employees are all entitled to have their interests protected.”

    Yeah that all worked out so well during the GFC eh…

    If anything, Moylan’s “elaborate hoax” proved that nothing has changed.

  7. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 11, 2013 3:41 pm

    “Interesting to note that the more intelligent people think a little differently…”

    All fixed for you

    I do hope he gets the full 5 or 10 years jail whatever it is.

    But I’m sure Roxon will be told to hit him with the force of a wet lettuce leaf.

  8. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 11, 2013 3:54 pm

    The number of times each wek this Government has to backtrack and apologise is breathtaking.

    “Families Minister Jenny Macklin has apologised for her “insensitive” comments about the Newstart allowance,……………….”

    Eventually they’ll need a national “Sorry Day” for themselves

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/macklin-apologises-for-insensitive-newstart-comments-20130111-2cjx4.html#ixzz2HdgU7j8W

  9. January 11, 2013 4:10 pm

    Is that an apology for the remarks she said she never said…..?

  10. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 11, 2013 4:27 pm

    Apparently yes

    The same remarks that the Departmental Smartphone failed to pick up due to “traffic noise”.

  11. January 11, 2013 5:27 pm

    “-I yearn for the tipping point, -”
    “-use whatever force necessary and a mass civil uprising-”
    ====
    This won`t happen in our life-time Armchair.
    The australian population is largely disarmed.
    Therefor, we rely on the military and police nationwide to do this, or at least stand-down and let the citizens get`em.
    Things will need to get much, much worse than things are today for this to happen.

  12. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 11, 2013 5:35 pm

    “Things will need to get much, much worse than things are today for this to happen.”

    But according to Swanee “things” are fantastic under this Government.

    You Lefties always changing the chapter to suit the story

  13. January 11, 2013 5:35 pm

    “-local story of Jonathon Moylan and the Green’s support of-”
    ====
    Have `you`lot` noticed the embedded media and the ASX are keeping quiet on their Lack of ‘fact` checking over Moylan`s prank?
    =
    “-Fact Checking-” is something the ASX is required to do by Law, regarding company/market announcements.
    =
    The embedded media make grand claims for their journalist`s and organisations around the topic of “-fact_checking-” too.

  14. January 11, 2013 5:44 pm

    blah, blah, blah,
    You Lefties always
    @Jock Shock
    ======
    Sorry dude, I have no religious/political `faith` of any kind.
    That said, I realize Mr-Rabbit has been such a great LOTO for the last few years, the public will keep him in the role for the period 2014 to 2016.

  15. January 11, 2013 5:54 pm

    “blah, blah, blah”

    We’re all lefties now, 730…

  16. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 11, 2013 6:01 pm

    “………..“-Fact Checking-” is something the ASX is required to do by Law, regarding company/market announcements…………”

    Thanks for the lesson Leftie

    If you’d care to actually check the facts yourself you’ll find that Moylan sent the email directly to journalists not to the ASX.

    Investment reaction was based on rumourtage not on any ASX or Whitehaven/ANZ release.

    The good old Lefties…………………..demand new Laws/Regulations all the time then welcome those that break the same Laws.

    What logic

  17. January 11, 2013 6:20 pm

    “-to charge him with a criminal offence would be utterly immoral.”
    ====
    I agree with Katherine Wilson re Moylan, and her quote is probably equally applicable to Assange and Manning.

    Unfortunately, the Unhinged Tea_Guzzlers just don`t understand the concept of IMMORAL. (nice link reb)

  18. January 11, 2013 6:23 pm

    “-email directly to journalists not to the ASX.-”
    ===
    So quick to Guzzle, you didn’t even bother to check.
    I covered both

  19. el gordo permalink
    January 11, 2013 6:53 pm

    ‘Get angry and fight dem back! This non-violence protest thing is only a way of keeping people controlled, use whatever force necessary and a mass civil uprising/disobedience. It is the only way to force change, it won’t be coming otherwise.’

    Strong language Kitty, but so last century.

    In civilised societies we don’t do that sort of thing. We have a fair justice system and the ballot box, there will be no revolution of the kind you envisage.

    The communications revolution may change the way people think and vote, but that’s pure speculation.

  20. January 11, 2013 6:59 pm

    “In civilised societies we don’t do that sort of thing. We have a fair justice system and the ballot box, there will be no revolution of the kind you envisage.”

    Have you seen what’s been going on in Europe lately……….??

  21. January 11, 2013 7:10 pm

    “-We’re all lefties now, 730-”
    ===
    Nah, some of us are just “-anti-stupid-”
    a small fact always lost on the Tea Guzzlers
    and enjoying the great unhinging of 2013

  22. January 11, 2013 7:11 pm

    Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue….

    http://theaimn.com

  23. TB Queensland permalink
    January 11, 2013 7:19 pm

    Have you seen what’s been going on in Europe lately……….??

    Absolutely … and once again for, egg’s, edification (Wally and ToM are a lost cause – if ever there was one) … history repeats jut like ToM’s posts …

    … most people talked a bout the Great War as the war to end all wars … 20 years later – welcome to Der Fuhrer …

    Mmmm …. you really ARE back, sreb … great thread header!

  24. TB Queensland permalink
    January 11, 2013 7:20 pm

    Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue….

    Duh?

  25. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 11, 2013 7:54 pm

    .”I covered both”

    Yes you did.

    And the ASX Had nothing to do with the bogus release as you implied.

    But keep backpedaling it is quite amusing.

    I wonder who in the Greens made money by shorting the stock knowing it was about to plummet ?

    Anyone care to address the Lefts constant calls for more regulation/laws and the support for those who break the same laws.

  26. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 11, 2013 7:59 pm

    “Have you seen what’s been going on in Europe lately……….??”

    A small percent of people tossed out of their cushy public servant jobs and a number of early retirees having a whinge.

    The day of reckoning had to come one day.

    The overwhelming percentage still have jobs and fat pensions

  27. January 11, 2013 8:00 pm

    “-Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue-”
    Fascinating, I followed, even tho I already follow, Dragonista, Cafe, Alex, Dennise. One more can`t hurt.

  28. TB Queensland permalink
    January 11, 2013 8:00 pm

    Anyone care to address the Lefts constant calls for more regulation/laws and the support for those who break the same laws.

    Why? Its a fkn dumb accusation …

    Care to address why right governments always send Aussie troops to war?

  29. January 11, 2013 8:02 pm

    Oh yeah, and Wixxy of course.

  30. TB Queensland permalink
    January 11, 2013 8:05 pm

    Oh yeah, and Wixxy of course.

    His profile is exceptionally uninteresting …

  31. January 11, 2013 8:05 pm

    “-why right governments always send Aussie troops to war?-”
    ===
    Simple. War is the only thing more useless than Tea_Guzzler Governments.

  32. January 11, 2013 8:07 pm

    Yeah TB, I realize some/you`lot are pissed at Wixxy. I aint interested in fighting either side, I like both blogs/characters.

  33. January 11, 2013 8:22 pm

    “The overwhelming percentage still have jobs and fat pensions”

    The “overwhelming percentage” huh? Last time I looked Spain was at 50% youth unemployment…

  34. January 11, 2013 8:28 pm

    “-still have jobs and fat pensions-”
    ===
    Strange that finance concerned Tea_Guzzlers worry about the crumbs provided to the working class in the form of Jobs OR pensions,
    (they usually don`t get both)
    and totally ignore the massive amounts paid to boardrooms!

  35. el gordo permalink
    January 11, 2013 8:41 pm

    ‘Have you seen what’s been going on in Europe lately……….??’

    No need for concern.

  36. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 11, 2013 8:45 pm

    The Spanish are a lazy lot. Someone was finally told to count how lazy.

  37. TB Queensland permalink
    January 11, 2013 8:48 pm

    Yeah TB, I realize some/you`lot are pissed at Wixxy

    Well ToM, is … that’s why Wixxy’s profile seemed “uninteresting” to me … personally I don’t give a flying fk …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    “The overwhelming percentage still have jobs and fat pensions”

    sreb, Willy, tends to make his own fiction up … as does JKR … although she did plagiarise quite a bit …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    ‘Have you seen what’s been going on in Europe lately……….??’

    No need for concern.

    And you would know … how? why?

    Have you ever been to Europe, egg?

  38. el gordo permalink
    January 11, 2013 8:49 pm

    More than half of the youth population are unemployed and some will emigrate. The king said it saddens him.

  39. el gordo permalink
    January 11, 2013 8:54 pm

    ‘And you would know … how? why?’

    Mass emigration is the most likely outcome for those young people, that’s why the king is saddened.

  40. TB Queensland permalink
    January 11, 2013 8:59 pm

    The Spanish are a lazy lot.

    I can’t disagree with that … the Greeks too – at home … strangely, they work their arses off in Oz!

    But one thing Mediterranean Europeans are not – is greedy …

    … the banks are – especially the Yank banks … and especially Goldman Sachs … how they continue to operate is beyond me …

    … well not really … the international regulation of banks is pitiful … nay, criminal … who monitors the “monitors” …

    … Über Kapitalism sucks ordinary folk dry … and then blames them for not working “hard” enough …

    … as if anyone in the finance industry could understand the meaning of “arbeiten” … shuffling other people’s money around on a computer, sitting in an air-conditioned office, on a fat, shiny, arse, is hardly what most of us would call work …

  41. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 11, 2013 9:01 pm

    Mr Credibility – they shared an office and did favours for each other

    It’s a blogging record for the most baseless, ignorant comment.
    ========
    Here on the coast a revolution doesn’t look likely.

  42. el gordo permalink
    January 11, 2013 9:38 pm

    Now the USA is prime for a revolution, the country is politically divided and everyone has a gun, but still no cause for revolution even when the gap between rich and poor is an obscenity.

  43. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 11, 2013 10:29 pm

    Here at Palm Beach a revolution is only used in the context of twin diesel propellor blades on a 60 footer.

  44. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 11, 2013 11:31 pm

    “Care to address why right governments always send Aussie troops to war?”

    Interesting statement that Lefties constantly “throw up”

    World War 1. Joe Cook ALP
    World War 2 Menzies for Germany …….Curtin for Japan

    That makes it 2-1

    Please point me towards declarations of War towards Korea, Vietnam.

    Lets look at Iraq 1990 ……….. Oh it’s Bob Hawke…….but bipartisan support on that.

    Ok how about Iraq and Adghanistan . Well again point me toward war declarations. Again bipartisan anyway.

    So it’s still Left 2 Right 1

    What were you saying ?

  45. TB Queensland permalink
    January 12, 2013 12:02 am

    Interesting statement that Lefties constantly “throw up”

    May be ’cause its actually 7:1 – Coalition : ALP – in this Federal Government paper … from about page seven is what we’re talking about …

    But many were bipartisan WWI, WWII etc … even The Guf War that Hawke committed to under a UN sanction … (includes the one you researched – Cook)

    The point I was making is the sillines of your original “accusation” …

    The good old Lefties…………………..demand new Laws/Regulations all the time then welcome those that break the same Laws.

    A couple of dumb Greens politicians shoot thier mouths off (remind you of anyone, Wally?) and anyone who leans a bit left has no logic …

    Come to think of it I didn’t hear any rantings from you about being able to live on the dole?

    That’s how “right” the present government has become … and politics isn’t even part of it … most people know that Macklin was d-u-m-b …

  46. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 12, 2013 12:15 am

    “Come to think of it I didn’t hear any rantings from you about being able to live on the dole?”

    No need

    They need to increase the amount they can earn before losing “dole”money first. Exceptions being disabled and over 55 plus singles with kids.

  47. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 12, 2013 12:18 am

    If you keep PDF like that on your hard drive then don’t ever ever ever claim bean punters are boring.

    I bet you keep spiders as pets.

  48. el gordo permalink
    January 12, 2013 6:21 am

    ‘But many were bipartisan WWI….’

    Off the top of my head they had two referendum and the people rejected the idea of going to war, so a volunteer army was organised. Idiots!

    My grandpa didn’t go, which is probably why I’m here to say these few words.

  49. January 12, 2013 11:23 am

    The revolution will not be televised.

  50. January 12, 2013 11:42 am

    From the files of “great reads often overlooked” comes…

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13346076-helping-the-retarded-to-know-god

  51. January 12, 2013 11:54 am

    “-The revolution will not be televised.-”
    ===
    Tho` the riots will be youtubed

  52. January 12, 2013 12:02 pm

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13346076-helping-the-retarded-to-know-god
    the tags and comments are great, christ-wire would be proud reb

  53. TB Queensland permalink
    January 12, 2013 1:00 pm

    I know who’s retarded …

  54. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 12, 2013 1:06 pm

    Off the top of my head they had two referendum and the people rejected the idea of going to war, so a volunteer army was organised. Idiots!

    Now they don’t bother with asking eg John Howard who took us to [an illegal] war without the people’s consent.

    The good old Lefties…………………..demand new Laws/Regulations all the time then welcome those that break the same Laws.

    And no-one squeals louder than those on the right who have their laws and their minimal legislation [allowing for quick profit], used against them.

    Tree hugging, well controlled protests and activism doesn’t bother the pigs at all, they are distanced and walled off from it, but the loss of a $ makes them cry weee, weee, weee all the way home!

    Vive la revolution!

  55. TB Queensland permalink
    January 12, 2013 1:34 pm

    If you keep PDF like that on your hard drive then don’t ever ever ever claim bean punters are boring.

    That’s the iggorence again, Wally, why would I keep it on my computer when I can access it in less than a couple of minutes on the “cloud” … but then I know how to research on the interwebby thingy … 😛

    BTW, thanks for the apology, “Sorry, TB, seems I was wrong and there was more right wing governments sending troops off to war … not Labor …”

    … just another political myth? You betcha, like most of the Libral Propaganda!

    BTW, we call you a BEAN COUNTER … but “punters” is probably appropriate – gambling with other people’s dosh … 🙄

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    LOL! KL, … but the loss of a $ makes them cry weee, weee, weee all the way home!

  56. Piggies! permalink
    January 12, 2013 1:55 pm

  57. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 12, 2013 2:09 pm

    Just as I thought, stop the rot!
    weee weee weee, oink oink oink, snort snort snort!

    Who are the criminals here?:

    http://johnquiggin.com/2013/01/12/who-are-the-criminals-here/

    …Media stories are still calling it a $300 million hoax (while throwing stones at online reporting H/T Megan), and suggesting that Mums and Dads are big losers. Now we have some actual data, showing that clients of Morgan Stanley and Macquarie gained from the trades made during the hoax while those of Citigroup and UBS lost. [1]

    Given the claim that hoaxes like this might destroy faith in the stock market, it’s worth looking at the track record of some of these banks. Looking just at the last few months, we have:

    Morgan Stanley fined over Facebook IPO, 19/12/12
    Citi fined $2 mln over Facebook IPO October 2012
    Deutsche Bank, UBS Convicted by Milan Judge for Fraud Role
    19/12/12

    UBS in particular has a rap sheet so long that Bloomberg news recently published a call for it to be shut down.

    By comparison with these global titans, Macquarie Bank looks pretty good, despite being well-known as a sharp-elbowed practitioner of regulatory arbitrage
    Regulator eyes millionaires factory

    It’s now clear that this systematic criminality is part and parcel of modern financial markets, and that nothing can or will be done about it. After HSBC got a slap on the wrist for a long-term money laundering operation on behalf of drugdealers, dictators and terrorists, the US Department of Justice openly admitted that the big banks are not only too big to fail, but too important to be subject to the law. Modest fines are just a cost of doing business, exactly as they are for other businesses that routinely operate at the edge of, or outside the law…

  58. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 12, 2013 2:24 pm

    The revolution will not be televised.

    Nor reported in the newspapers or right wing radio, much like the official treason and sedition of #ashbygate

    When trying to manage unruly child behaviour it is called “planned ignoring” or pretend we can’t see it in the hope the non-attention won’t encourage them.

    Wot revolution? *sniff*

    Or in the case of 2DT

    Smash ’em with a force so fierce they’ll never get up to do it again! Losing money is beyond the pale, unthinkable and intolerable, we’ll all be rooned, weee weee weee!

  59. January 12, 2013 2:46 pm

    “-Losing money is beyond the pale, unthinkable and intolerable,-”
    ===
    explains Mr-Rabbits political funding from biz for 2013 election
    watch funding dry up, along with unhinging

  60. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 12, 2013 3:09 pm

    more quiggin, on mums and dads:

    [don’t forget he is an economist = good, and an academic = bad, according to some wealthy elitists 😉 ]

    http://johnquiggin.com/2013/01/11/mums-and-dads/comment-page-1/#comment-191980

    …First, the claim is undoubtedly true. By the time they have enough money to invest in, or speculate on, the share market, the great majority of Australians have children. Nathan Tinkler, for example, is a father of four. Gina Rinehart is, at least according to her kids, a spectacularly bad mother, but she’s a mother all the same. The unremarkable fact that most owners of shares have children does not entitle them to any particular sympathy.

    More importantly, this was a zero sum event. For every Mum, Dad, or childless person who lost money by selling at the bottom, another gained by buying…

    http://johnquiggin.com/2012/09/16/the-dark-lord-of-queensland-politics-is/

  61. el gordo permalink
    January 13, 2013 7:36 am

    Tabit certain to be next PM.

    ‘WHY doesn’t the Liberal Party dump its deeply unpopular leader, Tony Abbott, and replace him with the more popular (according to the polls, anyway) Malcolm Turnbull? This is the question I most often get asked at business forums or when chatting to engaged voters while discussing the Liberal Party.

    ‘The simple answer is Turnbull’s popularity doesn’t extend to the Liberal parliamentary caucus, where the numbers decide the leader. Within that collective he is anything but popular, not unlike the way the Labor caucus views Kevin Rudd.’

    Peter van Onselen in the Oz

  62. January 13, 2013 11:12 am

    History tells us removing conservative leaders via a challenge is hard to do even when the incumbent’s deficiencies are obvious.

    pvo tries to give the Tea Guzzlers hope
    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/why-the-libs-wont-change-their-chief/story-e6frg12c-1226551500008

  63. January 13, 2013 11:39 am

    POLITICAL parties don’t propose changes to electoral laws unless they’re an advantage to them,” academic Scott Prasser says. “Let’s be honest about that.

    queensland TeaBags rattle canberra Left
    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/electoral-change-may-tick-the-right-boxes-for-some/story-e6frg12c-1226552258267

  64. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 13, 2013 11:45 am

    PVO basically saying that the fundy teabaggers, the extreme right, have taken over the liberal party. The teabaggers won’t have moderates like turnbull or hockey and there is no-one else in the party capable. So stick with phony tony.

  65. January 13, 2013 12:00 pm

    Fraser has previously criticised the party for becoming one of “fear and reaction” and says it is now unrecognisable as the party he joined more than 50 years ago.

    it`s funny seeing pvo backing up Falcom
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-05-26/fraser-quits-liberal-party/841616

  66. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 12:03 pm

    1. I always put ALP and Liberals equal, near the bottom of the preferences.

    Given that this is a valid political expression, it should be a valid way of making a formal vote.

    Optional preferential is a more representative way of expressing political opinions.

    2. If parliamentarians believe their personal interests (ie holding their seats) are better served by changing leaders, they’ll move to change.

  67. January 13, 2013 12:03 pm

    the Libz are bleeding small `L` Liberal and `swing` votes to other parties, Tea_Guzzling has lost them 2013

  68. January 13, 2013 12:08 pm

    1. Bullshit. You do too much Tea_Spouting to not vote Mr-Rabbit.
    2. Too Late for Mr-Rabbit`s Lot in 2013.

  69. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 12:12 pm

    …and Fraser is the most self interested and divisive c*nt in Australia’s political history.

    It’s only what’s left of his limited, conscience.

    He’s a c*nt – that’s a fact.

  70. January 13, 2013 12:15 pm

    you are confusing him with mr-rabbit`s opposition, or john w-howards regime

  71. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 12:15 pm

    7.30 – you might explain why putting the major parties equal is not a legitimate expression of political preferences.

  72. January 13, 2013 12:18 pm

    why would i need to explain that, tom-melb

  73. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 12:22 pm

    Because you are questioning my proposition that this is how I cast my preferences.

    It is my legitimate right not to prefer one party in front of the other, but the system makes this an informal vote.

  74. January 13, 2013 12:25 pm

    1. I always put ALP and Liberals equal, near the bottom

    1. Bullshit. You do too much Tea_Spouting to not vote for Mr-Rabbit.

  75. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 12:35 pm

    Pointless, nonsensical reply.

  76. January 13, 2013 12:46 pm

    and Fraser is the most self interested and divisive c*nt in Australia’s political history.
    It’s only what’s left of his limited, conscience.
    He’s a c*nt – that’s a fact.

    Wrong. That is the most unhinged Pointless, nonsensical reply.

  77. el gordo permalink
    January 13, 2013 1:20 pm

    Fraser was divisive and so was Chifley when he sent the troops into the mines.

    Abbott will lead the party to the next election and potentially could rule for a decade. He’s fit enough.

  78. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 1:25 pm

    People have been to willing to rehabilitate Fraser.

    He should be only remembered as the most dishonest politician in our history, his attempts to pretend to be something other than dishonest are…dishonest.

    Those that accuse Abbott of trying all sorts of tactics to bring down a minority government are willing to forget Fraser’s outrageous effort in bringing down a government that retained confidence and majority of the HoR.

    He’s a dishonest grub.

  79. January 13, 2013 2:09 pm

    Abbott will lead the party to the next election Loss and potentially could rule as opposition Leader for a decade. He’s fit enough.

  80. el gordo permalink
    January 13, 2013 2:17 pm

    Of course if the Coalition failed to capture government then Abbott would go. If he was replaced by Talcum then it would probably split the Coalition.

    That would be a turnup for the books.

  81. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 13, 2013 2:53 pm

    I always put ALP and Liberals equal, near the bottom of the preferences.

    I don’t think they can be equal can they? One must be preferenced over another by way of numbering – can’t have eg labor at no 5 and liberal at no 5 equally. That would be informal.

    Optional preferential is a more representative way of expressing political opinions.

    I don’t mind it, especially if we don’t want to preference any of the major parties – but will it in effect become a first past the post system?

    Interesting that you immediately trot out yet another of the libs talking points de jour.
    Antony Green says that if OPV were in place the coalition would have won the last election – is that the motivation for a hurried change? Nothing to do with policies of merit but all to do with simply winning.

    http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2013/01/would-optional-preferential-voting-have-changed-the-2010-victorian-election-result.html

    What should be done about the real problem, that of the two majors bastardising democracy in lower house representation by maintaining a rigid party discipline? MP’s voting along party lines rather than representing their electorate’s wishes?

    Perhaps we could do away with political parties altogether and elect individuals, all truly independent, rather than parties?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/fight-greens-or-lose-seats-to-abbott-says-malcolm-mackerras/story-fn59niix-1226423931484

    If he was replaced by Talcum then it would probably split the Coalition.

    Is splitting the coalition a bad thing anyway? Wouldn’t it actually be more democratic and representative of voter intent to vote for either national or liberal party rather than the existing “have it all ways” approach, again simply to win elections?

  82. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 13, 2013 2:56 pm

    I think it’s time for more political parties, we need choice in candidates and policies rather than systems, clearly voters have had a gutful of the current ones.

  83. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 13, 2013 3:04 pm

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/archive/national-old/in-loans-not-declared-by-tony-abbott/story-e6freuzr-1225882967470

    When first asked about the loans, Mr Abbott’s office said no property was purchased with the new loan and not updating the parliamentary records had been an oversight.

    Labor MP David Bradbury, whose electorate of Lindsay is known as the mortgage belt of Sydney, said it was inconceivable any MP could have forgotten a $710,000 loan.

    Elitist and exclusive much? Wish we could all get such access to over ride the banks in home mortgages.

    https://twitter.com/jillianblackall/status/290292085985251328

  84. January 13, 2013 3:08 pm

    “_Of course if the Coalition failed to capture government_”
    =====
    there is no IF about it now Gordo, Tea_Guzzlers can only watch Mr-Rabbit flounder in the shallows as seats bleed to other parties

  85. January 13, 2013 3:12 pm

    “_voters have had a gutful of the current ones._”
    =====
    yep, tho more independents would be better too,
    (as well as parties)
    the system could do with improving as well

  86. January 13, 2013 3:24 pm

    Veteran election analyst Malcolm Mackerras has also urged Labor to direct its preferences to parties such as Bob Katter’s Australia Party, the Democratic Labor Party and Family First ahead of the Greens, describing the Greens as “the greatest gift Tony Abbott ever had”.

    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/fight-greens-or-lose-seats-to-abbott-says-malcolm-mackerras/story-e6frg12c-1226423931484
    5 star *derp from Limited News
    But what if there is no air-con on voting day and voters are experiencing the `Global`Cooling`?

  87. January 13, 2013 3:30 pm

    the Greens as “the greatest gift Tony Abbott ever had
    The reverse is true. “_global cooling is crap_”
    Voters experiencing extreme global cooling effects on election day, won`t be voting favorably for Mr_Rabbit.

  88. el gordo permalink
    January 13, 2013 3:59 pm

    ‘Is splitting the coalition a bad thing anyway?’

    Not necessarily, new alliances would be formed between old party rumps and splinter groups, like you might find in Israel or Italy.

    Are they better democracies?

  89. el gordo permalink
    January 13, 2013 4:03 pm

    ‘Guzzlers can only watch Mr-Rabbit flounder in the shallows as seats bleed to other parties’

    Do you have a link to this mass migration?

  90. January 13, 2013 4:07 pm

    “_old party rumps and splinter groups,_”
    =====
    the old party-rumps have become the splinter groups Gordo

  91. January 13, 2013 4:16 pm

    “_Do you have a link to this mass migration?_”
    =====
    You don`t need a link gordo, you already have a front row seat to this theater of self-implosion

  92. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 13, 2013 4:25 pm

    But what if there is no air-con on voting day and voters are experiencing the `Global`Cooling`?

    😆

  93. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 4:34 pm

    If people have had a gutful of the major parties, why is it democratic to require people people to vote for one of them?

    …and I am a strident ALP critic because they are just so disappointing.

  94. January 13, 2013 4:44 pm

    “_and I am a strident ALP critic because they are just so disappointing._”
    =====
    More bullshit tom-melb. You guzzle tea by the gallon.
    Tho I do like your nickname at TPS.

  95. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 4:58 pm

    Like so many barrackers, 7.30 prefers his comments to be without fact.

    It saves thinking.

  96. January 13, 2013 5:20 pm

    “_Like so many barrackers, 7.30_”
    ======
    Sorry Tom-melb, still not rusted-on.
    But Like everybody else on the interwebs, I have had to put up with large amounts of *derp from right wing trolls babbling nonsense.

    As it has now become very clear that the babbling has gained nothing, including from the embedded media, I will now enjoy the show, that is the slow motion train wreck, of Mr-Rabbit remaining in opposition in 2014.

    Happy Trolling!

  97. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 5:45 pm

    Interesting isn’t it 7.30, to get labelled something that you don’t consider justified…

  98. el gordo permalink
    January 13, 2013 6:20 pm

    ‘Like so many barrackers, 7.30 prefers his comments to be without fact.’

    Agreed and he also makes shit up.

    Went looking for the mass migration from the Coalition and couldn’t find a skeric.

  99. TB Queensland permalink
    January 13, 2013 7:22 pm

    Like so many barrackers, 7.30 prefers his comments to be without fact.

    ToM, you are more of a “barracker” than anyone here!

    (As I keep saying “those that do – always accuse others of doing wht they do)

    eg Neil of Sydney accused me of lying … I simply missed a number … and apologised … Neil told a fib – was accused and we haven’t seen him since … same with James Farnham … sorry I was wrong is not hard! But accusers are genearally guilty of the crime …

    “Barrackers” – there are few barrackers here ….

    Then I saw, egg’s, contribution … Agreed and he also makes shit up.

    Classic!

  100. January 13, 2013 7:28 pm

    “_makes shit up_”
    =====
    Wot, Like this …
    https://thedailytrash.wordpress.com/co2-and-you/

  101. el gordo permalink
    January 13, 2013 7:41 pm

    There’s no mass migration of votes away from the Coalition to the Greens and Labor.

  102. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2013 7:47 pm

    Pointless, nonsensical reply.

    That was spot on the money 😆

  103. January 13, 2013 7:58 pm

    “_Interesting isn’t it 7.30, to get labelled something_”
    ======
    definitely not the same you can troll my blog all you want, and comments across the wordpress, blogger, livejournal, tumblr and twitter platforms. You will find I more often than not I headkick both joolya and mr-rabbit, as I don`t really think much of the `duopoly`.

    You can`t say that. At TPS, like here you drop right-wing tea_guzzling nonsense and only slam joolya`s lot. Do I really need to fetch a link where tps call you troll-of-melb and say scroll the troll, as gordo gets on cafe talkabout?

    If I am mis-understanding you then give me the link to your blog, so I can read your long-form write-ups and explanations, so i can understand you/r pov better.

  104. January 13, 2013 8:22 pm

    mass migration of votes away from the Coalition
    That`s it precisely! … You described 2013 perfectly Gordo.

  105. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2013 8:55 pm

    7.30 proves (again) that he finds it easier to lable rather than try to debate the issue.

    The proof is it the comments here.

  106. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2013 8:59 pm

    rather than try to debate the issue.

    Yea

    I’ll bet 7.30 doesn’t even know how to use dot points!

    😯

  107. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 13, 2013 10:09 pm

    “BTW, thanks for the apology, “Sorry, TB, seems I was wrong and there was more right wing governments sending troops off to war … not Labor …””

    LOL. zzzYou won’t be getting one until you find a PM declaring War against North Korea….Vietnam , Iraq, Afghanistan , lets throw in Indonesia via East Timor as well .. And wherever else you wish.

    I”ll wait whilst you go looking .

  108. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 13, 2013 10:17 pm

    It’s still 2 – 1

  109. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 13, 2013 10:18 pm

    Would you like to dither UK and USA next TB ?

  110. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 13, 2013 11:17 pm

    If I am mis-understanding you then give me the link to your blog, so I can read your long-form write-ups and explanations, so I can understand you/r pov better.

    No need, the rest of us have long memories. You won’t find coalition criticism, you will find almost all the commentary to be anti labor/union rants.

    Tom says he doesn’t need to criticise the Libs because apparently they are what they are and it is just expected that they are hypocrites and jackbooted fascists [my words not his, but you get the drift]. Labor apparently has to be better, because more is expected of them because they are supposed to be socially progressive which is why the bar is set higher for lab than lib …or something!

    [although I never quite understood why we expect such a lot more from one party whilst letting the other off scot free, no expectations just acceptance and tolerance – exactly as abbott gets with the MSM too]

  111. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 14, 2013 12:41 am

  112. el gordo permalink
    January 14, 2013 7:33 am

    If we must.

  113. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 14, 2013 9:30 am

    I freely admit that I find fault with the ALP, there’s plenty to find. But just as it is nonsense to claim than ALP is ‘left wing’- it is equally nonsense to claim that it’s critics are ‘tea party’

    Certainly Gillard’s dishonesty is not due to her political orientation.

  114. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 9:35 am

    Certainly Gillard’s dishonesty is not due to her political orientation.

    No, it’s due more to her simply being a politician, and you wanting to believe the crap the media tell you.

  115. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 14, 2013 10:49 am

    My views about Gillard are well founded and are formed on the basis of facts.

    It’s a little like (almost 6 years ago!) when I’d comment on the unsavoury relationship between some affiliated unions and the ALP. Back then I was constantly challenged to justify my views, the ‘deniers’ would argue that unions were benign. No one argues that any more.

  116. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 11:03 am

    the ‘deniers’ would argue that unions were benign.

    I think that you will find that many (myself included) didn’t argue that they were ‘benign’, but rather that, overall, it is preferable to be influenced by unions than it is to be influence by big business.

    Of course, your comment is coming from someone who failed to recall that he was a vociferous supporter of workchoices (although perhaps not a ‘zealout’)

  117. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 14, 2013 11:53 am

    Back then I was constantly challenged to justify my views, the ‘deniers’ would argue that unions were benign. No one argues that any more.

    Some of us pointed out that business behaviour is just as bad as unions, sometimes worse, but they seem to be exempt from any scrutiny and any resources to prosecute.
    In the same way that all unions are unfairly judged by the actions of a few, all businesses are given a blanket tick of approval, the bad ones sheltered and protected under an umbrella of goodwill.

  118. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 14, 2013 12:24 pm

    “………….but they seem to be exempt from any scrutiny and any resources to prosecute.”

    Absolute garbage !

    How about the Federal ACCC the ASX and various State Government Departments e.g. Fair Trading ?

    How about the Trade Practices Act and the Corporations Act 2001 ?

    Are they pieces of fiction are they ?

    If anything Companies are far more transparent and regulated than any Union is.

    Ever heard of the HSU ?

  119. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2013 12:30 pm

    North Korea….Vietnam , Iraq, Afghanistan , lets throw in Indonesia via East Timor as well .. And wherever else you wish.

    Your a wanker, Wally … you didn’t read the Government Paper in my link at all – did you?

    The only one missing from you list is East Timor – John Howard (Coalition) – who then tried to cheat the East Timorese out of revenue from the Tomor Sea gas fields … noice fella … right up your twisted alley …

    One of the reasons you lose cred is because even when the evidence is put up you still don’t shut up …

    My apology please …

  120. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 12:34 pm

    My apology please …

    Good luck with that TB 😦

  121. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 14, 2013 1:19 pm

    “One of the reasons you lose cred is because even when the evidence is put up you still don’t shut up … ”

    There is no “evidence” in your link. It just makes a distinction betwen formal declarations and conflicts

    And how were the Timorese cheated by the way. Or is that just another “out there” statement by a rabid Howard hater.

    Not that I particularly liked him either

  122. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2013 1:22 pm

    Yeah, I know, TomR … Neil fkd off to the cafe when he was challenged and found wanting … James Farnham, joined the, Andrew (Bolt) Acolytes, when he got caught out, ToSY just joined the Exodus to – somewhere … trouble with, Wally, is that no-one else will have put up with him …

    What’s annoying is that they were the ones who pissed off some good posters with their sniping, stonewalling and BS … much of it sexist, bordering on mysogyny … facts and research seems to baffle them all …

  123. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 1:51 pm

    I miss ToSY

    He spoke much wisdom, and did it in a fair and even manner for the most part. In fact, I reckon I even went off at him more than him at me, although often that was just him getting caught in the crossfire aimed at others.

    I don’t know what made him leave, but he was one of the few with who debates could be had, although I disagreed with him a lot, he had an unfortunate habit of backing his comments up with data.

    trouble with, Wally, is that no-one else will have put up with him …

    Oh, they got their fair share of exiles at the Cafe too. Not that I am encouraging him to go there, there’s enough insanity there at the moment without adding to it 😉

  124. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 14, 2013 1:53 pm

    Stopped even looking in the window ages ago

  125. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 14, 2013 1:55 pm

    “I don’t know what made him leave”

    Not quite sure myself what upset him

    But I do remember he had something to say to reb then pissed off. But I didnt scroll up at the time to see what caused it

  126. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2013 2:12 pm

    There is no “evidence” in your link. It just makes a distinction betwen formal declarations and conflicts

    And which political party was in government at the time … 🙄

    And how were the Timorese cheated by the way. Or is that just another “out there” statement by a rabid Howard hater.

    http://etan.org/news/2004/01ausday.htm

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/10/1078594427451.html

    http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/04/29/2003252415

    http://www.antiwar.com/orig/pilger.php?articleid=9184

    The long standing plan of the Australian government to maintain control of East Timor’s oil and gas reserves reached its dénouement late last week, as the East Timorese approved the International Unitisation Agreement (IUA) after a systematic campaign of threats and intimidation from Australia. The East Timorese ceded 79.9 percent of the Greater Sunrise oil and gas field to Australia, worth an estimated $50 billion, after the Howard government threatened to withhold ratification of the Timor Sea Treaty (TST), the royalties from which are desperately needed by the tiny, impoverished nation.

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2003/03/timo-m12.html

    My bold …

    The new Treaty

    In East Timor, Australia is widely regarded to have bullied the smaller country out of oil and gas revenues by refusing to agree to a maritime boundary in accordance with international law, instead negotiating revenue-sharing agreements in 2002 and 2006.

    Many East Timorese regard this as a slight on their country’s sovereignty.

    The latest iteration of the dispute is whether Australian company Woodside processes natural gas from its Greater Sunrise fields on East Timorese soil, or on a floating platform offshore.

    And the dispute continues …

    On its independence day, East Timor signed the Timor Sea Treaty with Australia. This treaty virtually puts East Timor in the place of Indonesia in the Timor Gap Treaty, except that the ratio of revenue distribution in the Joint Petroleum Development Area, known as the Zone of Cooperation under the 1989 treaty, was changed to 90:10 in favour of East Timor. The 2002 treaty provided for the future “unitization” – treating a gas or oil field which straddles one or several borders as one unit – of the Greater Sunrise gas field, of which only 20% was located within the JPDA while the rest was deemed to be in Australian territory. In East Timor’s view, this distribution could be disputed as it did not recognise the borders, drawn between Australia and Indonesia, which placed the bulk of Greater Sunrise in Australian territory.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timor_Gap

    School’s out … you can go home, Wally … there will be a test next week …

    oh, apology before you go, please …

  127. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 2:14 pm

    But I didnt scroll up at the time to see what caused it

    I’m going to go with ‘fuck you wally’

    Apparently this wally character has that effect on a lot of people. Whoever it might be ❓

  128. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2013 2:26 pm

    TomR, re ToSY … yes … I more often than not agreed with many of ToSY’s statements … and remember a couple of late Saturday night, interesting tête-à-tête with him … and I called for him to return the first time he followed the Farnhams … couldn;t understand this one … bit like N5, for me …

    Ser Tee as been missing in action too, just lately, I’m hoping that’s just a reflection of the school holidays and nothing permanent …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    OT (although it is Rostrum) … we recieved our first power bill after fitting our additional 3.3Kw solar system (already had 1Kw) … $392! In our pocket! Yesterday our neighbours told us they were planning an extension … two storey – double garage with deck and roof on top, a metre from the fence that will effectively cast a shadow over half the new panels (8) facing west … (we have a total of 22 panels (14 facing north) … we have to sign an exemption for them to build … we are not sure what to do at this stage …

  129. el gordo permalink
    January 14, 2013 2:26 pm

    ToSy thought reb was ‘baiting’ him and so he said adios.

  130. el gordo permalink
    January 14, 2013 2:31 pm

    And James left after a heated drawn out exchange with TB over sumthin.

    Intuitively I believe his good wife got wind of it and…. made him quit trash.

  131. January 14, 2013 2:51 pm

    “we have to sign an exemption for them to build … we are not sure what to do at this stage …”

    Maybe you could ask them to pay for, or split the cost of relocating the panels…?

    Or you could just do nothing and not sign.

    Depends on what kind of friendly terms you’re on with them, or would like to be on with them, in the future…

    I hate situations like that.

    One of the reasons I prefer apartment living these days, in my luxuriously appointed condominium…

    rebs place

  132. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 2:58 pm

    I’ve always dreamt of moving up to the second story

    still dreaming 😦

    That’s certainly an interesting one TB, and I have no idea where you would stand in that. Relocating the panels I would assume would be close on impossible. Without having a large frame erected to lift them up another story height.

    Love to hear how it turns out. We just got panels installed ourselves, although, they have only been hooked up for a short while, so don’t know if my calculations are going to have them being paid off in the timeframe I hoped for.

    Good luck with your neighbours anyway. No matter what, you gotta live with ’em 😦

  133. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 14, 2013 3:07 pm

    Absolute garbage !
    How about the Federal ACCC the ASX and various State Government Departments e.g. Fair Trading ?
    How about the Trade Practices Act and the Corporations Act 2001 ?
    Are they pieces of fiction are they ?

    No, they exist as toothless tigers!

  134. January 14, 2013 3:11 pm

    And another thing….

    Why is it that everything has to “beep” at you these days…?

    I’ve just done a load of washing and the washing machine beeps repetitively to let you know that it’s finished it’s job. I wouldn’t mind so much if it was just once, but it does it three fkn times, as if to somehow accuse you of ignoring it.

    Likewise, when I was offloading groceries into the refrigerator – it beeps too, letting you know that the door is open.

    I know the fkn door is open, it’s a necessary step in the process of getting the groceries from the bag to to the inside of the fridge!!

    The iron also beeps, ostensibly to let you know that you’ve stopped ironing, and that it’s ready to do a repeat performance of its mundane task any time you are.

    The TV also beeps.

    It beeps when you switch it on. And again when you switch it off. Something that ordinary people should be able to determine simply by looking at the screen with the unnecessary audio cue.

    Microwave ovens have to be among the worst culprits though. They beep when you fumble around with the controls, beeping at your every move, like some sort of punishment for hitting the wrong buttons. I’ve never understood microwave ovens nor all the settings for auto-defrosting this or combo-convection-ovening that.

    It’s bad enough not knowing how to simply reheat something without this fkn machine humiliating you throughout every step in the complicated process. It may as well hand out electric shocks.

    The dryer in the laundry is also not without it’s auditory warnings, blips and beeps. But together with the washing machine they’ve formed an unholy alliance to make the most humble of wash days an unnerving and humiliating experience.

    It hasn’t escaped me that the dryer beeps at every command you input – a beep for how long, another for the temperature and then yet another beep for whether you want normal dry or “crease free.”

    The dryer though, has this cute trick where it won’t beep when you press the “start” button. No it just sits there silently without moving. Waiting for you to figure out what you’ve overlooked to prevent it from commencing its fairly rudimentary function.

    The secret is, that there’s another button near the handle that you have to “depress” in order for the dryer to work. It’s called a “safety switch” which, by its very name is something that most people would overlook in their haste to get the thing going.

    Besides. What’s going to happen…? Is the door gonna suddenly fly open and scald you to death with near “crease free” business shirts…?? No I don’t think so either..

    It doesn’t flash, beep or blink, no it just sits there staring at you saying “who’s the dumb fuck who can’t figure out to get the dryer going…”

    Maybe one day they’ll invent appliances that can talk. That’ll be fun. But only if you could choose the voice type – I think I’d choose a Joan Rivers fridge to begin with.

    “Are you gonna shut that fkin door…?”

  135. January 14, 2013 3:15 pm

    I have a solution TB, you could just do something aesthetically pleasing like this…

    It should fit in quite nicely in Queensland… 🙂

  136. January 14, 2013 3:16 pm

    they exist as toothless tigers!
    Which is true of most `enforcement` agencies/watch-dogs.
    You will find way more often than not, enforcement is,
    1. Very tough on the weak/poor/worker/etc
    2. Very weak on the rich/biz/politicians

  137. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 3:16 pm

    Why is it that everything has to “beep” at you these days…?

    At least there’s no ‘beep’ing beeps around here 🙂

  138. January 14, 2013 3:27 pm

    Yeah reb, have to say I hate the electronics and their stupid beeps too, particularly in the white-goods. I always try and get `basic` models without all the bullshit features and wizz-bangs.
    (which 95% are never used anyhoo)

  139. January 14, 2013 3:33 pm

    Picture-In-Picture is just a fraud too.
    I think I`m lucky when I find One show on TV I want to watch.
    Who the hell is using picture-in-picture?
    Are there people out there who are scared they will miss an advert?

  140. January 14, 2013 3:34 pm

    I know 730, but even some of the basic models these days try to overcompensate their lack of features and functionality by making more noise than necessary.

    I still have an old microwave in the garage I think that actually makes a “ting” sound like a bicycle bell when it’s ready. It really must have a bell in there somewhere I think.

    On the other hand, I do like the noise my coffee machine makes.. It’s very industrial sounding – like a jackhammer with lots of loud pounding, grinding and vibrating noises…

    Sometimes, when I’m at a loose end, I just turn it on just for a thrill or to wake the neighbours…

  141. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 14, 2013 3:42 pm

    “No, they exist as toothless tigers!”

    Thankfully not much of what you state is ever true

    http://agencysearch.australia.gov.au/search/search.cgi?collection=agencies&profile=asic&query=banned&scope_disable=on

  142. January 14, 2013 3:51 pm

    “_basic models these days try to overcompensate their lack of features and functionality by making more noise than necessary._”
    =
    Yes. The Yomm and Gordo models do tend to do that …

  143. January 14, 2013 3:55 pm

    “_makes a “ting” sound like a bicycle bell_”
    Yes, this is what I have, with a hi/med/lo setting and timer dial.
    I refuse to upgrade.

  144. January 14, 2013 4:05 pm

    Fascinating …. from 2dt`s Link

    Four Corners – Home

    Now it sits silent and empty, banned from plying its trade in Australian waters.

    http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/

  145. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2013 4:23 pm

    Thanks, everyone above, won’t attempt to reply to everyone concerning my solar panel dilemma …

    … I just broached the subject …

    … that I have no problem with the new quadruple garage (6mx9m) along my fencline and the new deck and roof that I’ll be able to jump onto from my own …

    … but only if we can resolve the interference to my solar panels and my $6600 investment now earning me money …

    … she said OK we’ll just have to move … my daughter isn’t feeling too well today though and its early days … I’m sure we’ll reach a solution …

    Another dilemma, for me, is that they “talk” about moving in seven to eight years anyway (my youngest g/son will be 18) … so if it goes ahead … The Minister and I are left with their legacy and neighbours on my doorstep, upstairs … literally!

    … but we have decided our last move (from here) will be in a plain, pine box … 😛

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    BTW, TomR – – Wally, is short for Walrus (amongst other things) ie IATW … that reminds me Wally … apology please?

  146. Ol' Sancty permalink
    January 14, 2013 4:28 pm

    A “Farnham” is when someone announces their retirement, only to return shortly thereafter. Given I simply stopped, “Farnham” is hardly an appropriate descriptor. However, it was probably bad manners to just stop without explanation. Quite simply, frustrated, I decided to take a short break. Then it was exam time. Then we sold our apartment. Then it was Christmas. Then we moved. Now I have another tacker arriving in a couple of weeks. I’ve found it actually a bit liberating to be away from the argy bargy. As much as I have appreciated it over the years, Reb, the addiction can be draining.

    I have lurked at times, however, and noted some discussion about sockpuppetry. Sock puppetry is sometimes funny. At other times it is deceitful and disrespectful. At no time have I ever engaged in sock puppetry in any sense. Changing my name whilst making it visually clear as to my identity is not sock puppetry.

    I’d be fascinated to know what it was that I got “caught out” doing. But then, I couldn’t really care. I answer to my family alone and that’s well enough.

    Sincerely, Reb, I am grateful for your hosting over the years and hope I can still drop by from time to time but I do intend to continue to limit my participation. It chews up an enormous amount of time particularly if you’re of the view that your opinions and facts should be substantiated rather than simply stated. That’s time that really should be spent with the kid(s) and bride.

    Cheers all, and have a happy new year.

  147. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2013 5:06 pm

    Happy new year, Jim … 🙂

  148. January 14, 2013 5:14 pm

    A “Farnham” is when someone announces their retirement, only to return shortly thereafter. Given I simply stopped, “Farnham” is hardly an appropriate descriptor.

    Indeed… Agreed!

    Totally understand the situation James… 🙂

    People are free to come and go as they please…

    (It’s not a cult).

    Yet.

    Please feel welcome to drop in any time you have the time… 🙂

  149. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 5:26 pm

    However, it was probably bad manners to just stop without explanation.

    In some cases, it is probably bad manners to just start again full stop.

  150. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 14, 2013 5:54 pm

    1. I don’t see much point in doing the Farnham, I find it better to just keep posting I’m banned.

    People that self select out have usually run out of things to say. Repetition has its place.

    2. I wasn’t either a zealot or a vociferous supporter of Workchoices, and the current NES seem entirely reasonable.

    Someone might explain why individuals are not allowed to come to legally binding agreements that exceed each of these national employment .standards.

    3. Surf was better today.

  151. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 6:08 pm

    I wasn’t either a zealot or a vociferous supporter of Workchoices

    You really need to try to understand what ‘vociferous ‘ means, and, when asked if you support something, ‘no’ is a better answer than ‘well… I’m not a zealot ‘, followed by launch back into supporting it.

  152. el gordo permalink
    January 14, 2013 6:14 pm

    ‘I’d be fascinated to know what it was that I got “caught out” doing.’

    Clearly my intuitive intellect is faulty.

  153. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 14, 2013 6:17 pm

    “……….‘I’d be fascinated to know what it was that I got “caught out” doing.’………….”

    I dont recall that happening either. James just up and left from what I could see.

  154. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 14, 2013 6:22 pm

    “Someone might explain why individuals are not allowed to come to legally binding agreements that exceed each of these national employment .standards.”

    The Left demands homogeneous solutions.

    Everybody is the same I hope you realise. In the Lefties world above average ability is not recognised let alone rewarded.

    Unless you are a Union official of course since then nothing regulates your behaviour………….. Just open slather.

  155. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 14, 2013 7:09 pm

    Interesting that James finds blogging time consuming… because he uses facts.

    Such optional extras may not be worth the price.

  156. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 7:13 pm

    Someone might explain why individuals are not allowed to come to legally binding agreements that exceed each of these national employment .standards.

    This might enlighten

    http://www.fairwork.gov.au/resources/best-practice-guides/pages/use-of-individual-flexibility-arrangements.aspx

  157. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 7:14 pm

    because he uses facts.

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    snactysmatesscientificresearchdepartment 😯

  158. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 7:15 pm

    Here’s some fax

  159. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 14, 2013 7:21 pm

    My hand held device isn’t good for links. Does that one prove people can make legally binding agreements that exceed the NES?
    ========
    I’m off to celebrate the existence of shiraz.

  160. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2013 7:26 pm

    My hand held device isn’t good for links

    perhaps you should get your hand off it then 😉

  161. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 14, 2013 11:00 pm

    Cheers all, and have a happy new year

    A lovely post from james, thanks for filling us in on your life of late.
    Completely understand the need for family time and the demands of toddler and new baby. It is a fulfilling, rewarding and very demanding time, one of great joy too.

    Hope you have a wonderful year ahead james.

    I’d be fascinated to know what it was that I got “caught out” doing. But then, I couldn’t really care. I answer to my family alone and that’s well enough.

    I’d be fascinated to know too. Do tell somebody.

    …if you’re of the view that your opinions and facts should be substantiated rather than simply stated…

    Depends if the opinion is presented as fact 🙂

    Just one more question james, purely out of interest, I’m hoping you’ll indulge me with an answer.

    Which Househusband would you be most like?

    I don’t know the character names, only the actors
    gary sweet
    rhys whatsisname
    gyton grantley
    Firass Dirani [footballer guy]

  162. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 14, 2013 11:06 pm

    Someone might explain why individuals are not allowed to come to legally binding agreements that exceed each of these national employment .standards

    I didn’t think there was anything stopping an employer from paying above award wages and conditions. They can’t pay less than award [though many do and they get away with it] they can always pay more.

  163. Ol' Sancty permalink
    January 14, 2013 11:26 pm

    Probably Rhys Muldoon, although each apply in different ways. Mrs Sancty is more senior career wise than I am (though I work full time and she part time) so when push comes to shove it is I that fronts to the boss and says I have to pick Li’l Sancty up from childcare because he is sick. Sometimes I have to do that in situatons where leaving work is simply not an option, but I go anyway. Whilst generally people are pretty accepting of this there remains an element of latent sexism about it I guess. If that’s the word. And I recognise the characateur of the female bullying boss (and I also recognise the vulnerability that leads to that).

    I suspect as time passes my relative unavailability and unreliability for work will lead to reduced opportunities for advancement.In fact, I’d say it already has.

    Which could well lead to a discussion about whether career advancement issues for hands on parents is an issue of sexism or simply one of what suits an employer in terms of reliability of staff. A discussion I don’t intend to get into because I must get back to waxing lyrical about the principle of indefeasibility of title, whatever the fck that is.

  164. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 7:40 am

    Depends if the opinion is presented as fact

    Oh, you mean something like

    Someone might explain why individuals are not allowed to come to legally binding agreements that exceed each of these national employment .standards.

    😉

  165. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 9:50 am

    Yep, ToM, iggorance is bliss … how do these people claim to advise businesses … explains a lot of incompetent management teams in the Mexican states …

    Or is it just LibNit propaganda … worked for Dr Goebbels for almost a decade …

    Just read many of the posts above and the truth is just something to ignore …

  166. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 9:51 am

    CORRECTION!

    Yep, ToM, should read Yep, TomR … (force of habit – the name … not agreement)

  167. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 9:53 am

    “I’d be fascinated to know what it was that I got “caught out” doing.”

    Only one person knows and it seems they are not telling.

    Its a bit of a Pot/Kettle thing you see

  168. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:00 am

    iggorance is bliss

    😆 TB, I’m stealin’ that one 😉

  169. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:03 am

    Also, I AGREE TB!

    I thought yomm was s’posed to be some sort of an ‘aficionado’ on ’employee relations’ or some such, yet appears here to be totally oblivious to something that a 30 second google provides the answer too.

    And not for the first time either. I still recall the famous ‘2 feet thick’ tomes of awards ROFL

    Surely not propaganda, surely not 😯

  170. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:27 am

    “I’d be fascinated to know what it was that I got “caught out” doing.”

    I’m going to take a stab about it being something to do with passive smoking, and snactysmatessciencedegree coming into play again 😉

    https://thedailytrash.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/a-midweek-rostrum-2/#comment-11209

  171. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:30 am

    btw, there appears to be yet another rogue getting about

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/01/14/newspoll-51-49-to-coalition-4/

  172. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:33 am

    I thought yomm was s’posed to be some sort of an ‘aficionado’ on ‘employee relations’ or some such

    And, Wally, claims super accountant status … he made the original statement … maybe its a case of a little knowledge is dangerous?

  173. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:38 am

    he made the original statement

    He did? I must have missed that with all the scrolling when I see his name.

  174. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:46 am

    No, my mistake it was, ToM, but then Wally, agreed with him.

    The Left demands homogeneous solutions.

    Everybody is the same I hope you realise. In the Lefties world above average ability is not recognised let alone rewarded.

  175. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:48 am

    Andrew Laming MP: Apologise to Logan residents and all CALD & Indigenous Australians

    Reconciliation with our Indigenous brothers and sisters is necessary for the future cohesion of our beautiful country, Australia. In addition, we need to ensure that Culturally and Linguistically Diverse (CALD) Australians do not face racial stereotyping and racism.

    Please sign

    http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/andrew-laming-mp-apologise-to-logan-residents-and-all-cald-indigenous-australians

  176. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:50 am

    but then Wally, agreed with him.

    Always a dangerous thing to do.

    I recall a simpler time when yomm used to offer up compelling arguments.

    Hatred rots it seems

  177. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:54 am

    “And, Wally, claims super accountant status …”

    Really ?

    I better double my fees then

  178. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:59 am

    Really ?

    You’re tellin’ the tale sunshine … look at me, look at (rich) me … now I’m on horse … 🙄

  179. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:02 am

    So who is this fabled ‘wally’ these days, 2DT or Truly Evil?

    It got to the point I no longer cared, so lost track. Which I’m guessing is half the point

  180. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:10 am

    “You’re tellin’ the tale sunshine …”

    I disagree

    For the most part I merely impart my knowledge on best ways to pay zero tax since you Lefties just waste it anyway

  181. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:13 am

    In fact

    I reckon ToM would give me a good run for the $.

    But I’m not quite sure what his consultative field is other than some sort of management consulting

  182. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:14 am

    Those that can, do, those that can’t, consult 🙂

  183. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:22 am

    Those that can, do, those that can’t, consult

    Hope that doesn’t include me!

  184. January 15, 2013 11:25 am

    Speaking of me….

    When I arrived back from overseas, I was jetlagged to buggery, so I thought I’d take some sleeping pills to help adjust back to Australian time.

    Then I found I needed strong coffee in the morning in order to prise my eyelids open and stay awake throughout the day.

    My consumption of coffee tripled in the space of a few days.

    Chocolate also helped.

    My right shoulder has been giving me grief lately aswell, so I’ve been taking Nurofen Plus for that too. (The strong one that meth heads prefer).

    Did you know that it’s actually quite possible to live on coffee, Nurofen, sleeping pills and chocolate alone for several days at a stretch…?

    Not that I’m recommending it of course…

  185. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:36 am

    Hope that doesn’t include me!

    I wished it included me.

    I’m sick of working for a living 😦

  186. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:39 am

    Yes

    CCTV would make it difficult in your line of work

  187. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:40 am

    Speaking of me….

    As is our wont 😯

  188. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:45 am

    CCTV is so last year

    http://www.spytech-web.com/employee-monitoring.shtml

  189. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 12:00 pm

    Speaking of technology I just switched back to a Telstra/Bigpond/Foxtel bundle. Guess who spent at least 3 hours talking to India over the weekend and another hour last night and they still cant get the f**king brand new model NBN ready modem to work. Seems they have a problem with their server which despite fixing a time to call me at home (when I can actually test it whilst they tell me its fixed) they have now decided twice to call me at other times on my mobile to tell me its fixed. Then I try once home to connect and it wont.

  190. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 12:06 pm

    Speaking of technology I just switched back to a Telstra/Bigpond/Foxtel

    ROFL

    technology and Telstra really shouldn’t be used in the same sentence 😉

  191. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 12:09 pm

    “technology and Telstra really shouldn’t be used in the same sentence”

    For once I agree with you 🙂

  192. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 12:09 pm

    Guess who spent at least 3 hours talking to India …

    Well there’s your problem, Telstra Tech are in the Phillipines … you must be talking to Optus … and they certainly won’t help .. 😆

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    so I’ve been taking Nurofen Plus for that too. (The strong one that meth heads prefer).

    Substitute for shiraz, perhaps … ’bout time you showed up! Are you unwell or just slept in? You lot in the Mexican states are still on DST aren’t you?

  193. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 12:11 pm

    “Well there’s your problem, Telstra Tech are in the Phillipines …”

    Well they had Indian accents and were enquiring about the ODI with Sri Lanka. So I assumed.

    But yes last night twas the Phillipines

  194. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 12:13 pm

    And then when they call back on my mobile its a Melbourne 03) number

  195. January 15, 2013 12:20 pm

    Here’s a tip – when you phone Telstra and you get that recorded message saying “In a few short words tell me what your call is about,” just say “COMPLAINT”

    You’ll find that you will then be connected to an Australian who can help.

  196. January 15, 2013 12:21 pm

    I slept in.

  197. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 12:23 pm

    You’ll find that you will then be connected to an Australian who can help.

    And you can then complain to them using an Indian accent that they cannot understand.

  198. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 12:24 pm

    Maybe they fly Indians into the Phillipines and then fly them out again

  199. January 15, 2013 12:27 pm

    The only thing I don’t like about talking to the Phillipino call centres is that they’re all fkn Catholics…

    Maybe I should surprise them by saying “Can I speak to someone who isn’t a Catholic” rather than “Can I speak to an Australian…”

  200. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 12:29 pm

    Anyway they’ve already admitted the problem is at their end in their server so until they can fix it I cant be upgraded to a new Foxtel HD box or data plan. So if they want extra $ off me its upto them.

    Otherwise I’ll go back to Optus.

    Which will be another nightmare I’m sure

  201. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 15, 2013 1:59 pm

    Last night I had the 04 bin 389, which I consider to be outstanding drinking. Hangovers don’t happen with good red!

    This morning the surf was ideal- small and clean.

    Even Swan isn’t capable of screwing this up.

  202. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 15, 2013 2:09 pm

    Many companies can’t afford to hold their capability as employees, they may not have the volume of work to justify employment. Employees become narrow in their focus, and their ideas can become stale.

    Expensive consultants offer great value for money.

  203. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 2:35 pm

    Expensive consultants offer great value for money.

    Even if they don’t do links 😉

  204. January 15, 2013 4:07 pm

    Congrats Snacty, enjoy your time with new bub and hope family enjoy settling in new home okay. Drop in when you can.

  205. January 15, 2013 4:11 pm

    armchair is correct, enterprise-agreements, awards and minimum wage is the Least biz can offer to workers. There is no `ceiling` by Law, to stop biz offering more to workers and take workers off the job-seeking market.

  206. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 4:14 pm

    armchair is correc

    No matter how much yomm doesn’t want her to be.

  207. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 4:30 pm

    Many companies can’t afford to hold their capability as employees, they may not have the volume of work to justify employment.

    Then they need to downsize … or consider their business model, maybe some companies shouldn’t be in business then?

    Employees become narrow in their focus, and their ideas can become stale.

    Only if management doesn’t have the skills and knowledge to harness employees capabilites … in fact your statement applies to management more so than employees …

    You need to check out the Harley Davidson turnaround …

    Expensive consultants offer great value for money.

    With the mindset demonstrated in that little post … you should be charging zero …

  208. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 4:39 pm

    “… in fact your statement applies to management more so than employees … ”

    Management usually are employees

  209. January 15, 2013 4:40 pm

    “_Expensive consultants offer great value for money._”
    =====
    Deluded. And bullshit. I have seen the advice of `expensive_consultants` taken, which resulted in the biz losing a high volume of workers 90% with the skills and knowledge that made the biz operate so well. After losing workforce biz floundered.

  210. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 4:43 pm

    Management usually are employees

    But not all employees are management … you have a point to make?

  211. January 15, 2013 4:47 pm

    “_No matter how much yomm doesn’t want her to be._”
    ====
    I would back armchair on factual data and knowledge, over yomm anyday.

  212. January 15, 2013 4:52 pm

    I would have thought yomm would be providing us with bullet points showing biz`s that are $upporting Mr-Rabbits 2013 push.
    Wot? No Sponsors!

  213. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 4:54 pm

    My point is that your initial point makes little sense. But I see you have now clarified it.

  214. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 5:28 pm

    But I see you have now clarified it.

    Only for you, Wally … only for you … 🙄

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Dorothy has a dog. Dorothy’s dog is called, Spot. Look at, Spot, run. Can you run on the spot like, Dorothy’s, dog, Spot? 🙂

  215. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 15, 2013 5:43 pm

    Get your facts right………..

    Dorothy’s dog was called Toto

  216. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 5:48 pm

    Dorothy’s dog was called Toto

    Or, Wally …

  217. January 15, 2013 5:50 pm

    I have no belief in this Tom_R,
    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/01/14/newspoll-51-49-to-coalition-4/
    I will wait until Feb when Parliament returns, rather than getting pre-excited over the dubious Limited-News Noise-Polls.

    I am rather certain they are duds, used as whip on Joolya.

  218. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 6:19 pm

    I will wait until Feb when Parliament returns, rather than getting pre-excited over the dubious Limited-News Noise-Polls.

    I’ll just wait for the election. That should sort it out 😉

  219. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 15, 2013 6:35 pm

    That’s interesting. Someone has a questionable experience with a consultant and they’re all bad.

    Maybe the same rule could apply to politicians, union officials, police…
    =====
    Someone here might explain how over award payments are legally enforceable.

    ‘I’ve got a letter that says I should get an extra $20 a week’… doesn’t really excite the legal fraternity.

    How does the employee get their $20?

  220. January 15, 2013 7:30 pm

    “_consultant and they’re all bad._”
    =====
    Wotz the problem?
    It is the same standard you apply to NON_tea_guzzlers!

  221. January 15, 2013 7:35 pm

    “_I’ll just wait for the election. That should sort it out_”
    =====
    Fully agree, but why the Link?
    I thought it was going to unhinge tea guzzlers.

  222. January 15, 2013 7:39 pm

    “_over award payments are legally enforceable._”
    idiotic nonsense yomm, nobody said they were,
    most biz don`t offer X$ at job interview, then renege

  223. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 8:02 pm

    ToM … like your, mate, Wally, you really need to do your homework – or study IR law properly … Common Law work contracts have been around for centuries (and still are) … recognising that legislation will generally over-rule common law

    This is a couple of paragraphs from a legal site … ( a law firm obviously oriented against the Gillard government I might add) …

    However, if a common law contract is going to govern the employment of an employee who earns $100,000 or more per annum, then the only compulsory minimum standard which the contract must meet is that which will be set out in the 10 national minimum standards. To put it simply, those earning, or paying, six-figure salaries can contract out of an award – any relevant award is simply considered not to apply to the employment of that employee …

    … Using the ‘Forward with Fairness’ document as a guide, the present indications are that the ten standards would set out required minimum entitlements for:

    Hours of Work

    Parental Leave

    Flexible Work for Parents

    Annual Leave

    Personal, Carers and Compassionate Leave

    Community Service Leave

    Public Holidays

    Information in the Workplace

    Notice of Termination and Redundancy; and

    Long Service Leave.

    Generally, people can always negotiate their work (Common Law) agreement (always have) … Workchoices attempted to change that … in particular, by deleting the “ANY standards” as mandatory …

    … LibNit oriented “legal eagles” – who really don’t understand workplace IR anyway … keep attempting to demosntrate how the ALP didn’t get it right either …

    Personally, I was negotiating my work conditions and pay when I completed my apprenticeship at 21 … BUT I recognise that not everyone can do that (smartarses don’t) …

    … later in my career, one of the subjects I studied was Contract Law … anyone in my family who, looks for, or changes jobs, these days throws the contract my way …

  224. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 8:31 pm

    I thought it was going to unhinge tea guzzlers.

    I’m feeling a little exposed right now 🙂

  225. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 8:34 pm

    How does the employee get their $20?

    Sack the fucking consultant 🙂

  226. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:03 pm

    TB, with the very greatest of respect, I have every reason to believe that my qualifications and experience in matters related to employment are beyond reproach.

    I don’t really know what yours are. Though I am entirely willing to accept that you have been an OHC consultant in Queensland’s mining sector.

    Common law is inaccessible in practice for most employees. Is there a government agency that will chase up common law underpayments in the way that statutory underpayments will be persued?

  227. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:15 pm

    “ToM … like your, mate, Wally, you really need to do your homework – or study IR law properly … Common Law work contracts have been around for centuries (and still are) … recognising that legislation will generally over-rule common law”

    Oh FFS

    Who said that legislation does not over rule Common Law ?

    Where is that comment from me ?

    Or should we file that with your “caught out “comment that you never backed up in regard to James ?

    And based on commentary here i know ToM has forgotten more than you would even know about IR ..

  228. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:21 pm

    Common law is inaccessible in practice for most employees.

    Then they can just access what I highlighted earlier

  229. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 15, 2013 10:38 pm

    Just reading “the Economist”

    Japan is looking as bad as Greece in a lot of ways.

  230. el gordo permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:11 pm

    Japan has been in recession for two decades and I heard the new man has decided to print lots of money to stimulate the economy.

  231. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:16 pm

    Common law is inaccessible in practice for most employees

    That’s is utter crap … common law contracts are available to anyone … as long as they uphold the ten standards mentioned above … common law contracts are in the simplest form, over award agreements …

    Who said that legislation does not over rule Common Law ?

    The LAW does … FFS! Legislation is often based upon common law precedence (ie duty of care … now embodied in much legislation …) Common Law records judicial precedence, but legislation and regulation will define rights and responsibilities … and once enacted over rides CL …

    I have every reason to believe that my qualifications and experience in matters related to employment are beyond reproach.

    Fine, so are mine …

    … BTW whats an OHC? consultant?

  232. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:41 pm

    “Who said that legislation does not over rule Common Law ?”

    I said “who” not “what” and i didn’t say that it didn’t and you know that.

    I take others quotes and dispute them.

    Your style is……

    state exactly the opposite and claim they stated it.

  233. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:45 pm

    Yes eg that’s what is proposed,

    I think their racial purity immigration scheme of zero is gonna get em whatever they do now

    Too late perhaps

  234. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 15, 2013 11:47 pm

    In fact Nipponese are probably the biggest and most successful rascists in Asia behind India and its class structure

  235. バンカーマスかき permalink
    January 16, 2013 1:20 am

    Japan will be fine as long as we avoid those outdated “fiscal austerity economists” falsely claiming that we should increase taxes and pay back “debt” we owe to ourselves.

    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=19528

  236. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 8:31 am

    Who said that legislation does not over rule Common Law ?

    Where is that comment from me ?

    Just to simplify it for you, Dorothy … no-one said it was you … you just got worked up over zilch … all I did was state a fact … recognising that legislation will generally over-rule common law

  237. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 16, 2013 8:38 am

    OK………….Toto

  238. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 8:44 am

    First Laming and now this …

    A POLITICAL staffer’s off-colour joke about public servants and a wounded Digger has angered the RSL.

    Chief Opposition Whip Warren Entsch yesterday admitted the joke email deriding lazy public servants was “sick”, but dismissed calls to sack his electorate officer for spreading it with their parliamentary account under his name.

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/rsl-anger-at-sick-wounded-digger-joke/story-e6frfro0-1226554676449

    Another of the 80% …

  239. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 8:45 am

    I wonder if yomm is able to clarify if he still stands by his initial statement that

    individuals are not allowed to come to legally binding agreements that exceed each of these national employment .standards.

    Or crickets?

  240. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 8:49 am

    First Laming and now this …

    Shit Happens!

  241. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 10:15 am

    Shit Happens!

    It seems so, in the LibNit camp … insensitive woman, who then attempted to “justify” the “joke” … 🙄

  242. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 16, 2013 10:18 am

    IFAs can be terminated with 4weeks notice, they don’t offer certainty to employees making commitments or to the employers trying to plan their resourcing over a year or 2.

  243. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 10:21 am

    So what “certainty” is offered to any employee – other than “legal notice”?

  244. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 16, 2013 11:23 am

    If there is no agreement, common law employment agreements can only be varied with notice (ie under threat) of termination.

    The terms of AWAs were locked in for their duration.

    The terms and benefits of IFAs can simply be withdrawn with 28 days notice. That’s no security.

  245. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 11:38 am

    The terms of AWAs were locked in for their duration.

    Define “duration”?

  246. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 11:47 am

    BTW we were discussing individuals are not allowed to come to legally binding agreements that exceed each of these national employment .standards.

    Not AWA’s …

  247. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 12:16 pm

    IFAs can be terminated with 4weeks notice

    Anything can

  248. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 12:19 pm

    btw yomm, do you agree the IFA’s are legally binding agreements that exceed each of these national employment .standards.

  249. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 1:05 pm

    I wouldn’t mind, TomR, but from an IR law perspective it’s not rocket science … 🙄

  250. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 16, 2013 1:05 pm

    I’m entirely happy to agree with that. It’s simply that they can’t be relied on for planning – the agreement only has a 4 week horizon.

  251. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 1:11 pm

    It’s simply that they can’t be relied on for planning

    bullshit. They only cannot be relied on if the planners are certain they are ripping someone off. Of course, if the person isn’t happy with the IFA, they can go back to the minimum standards. Which, according to the legislation, will leave them worst off. Unless, of course, they were somehow worst off under the IFA. Which would make it null and void anyway.

    I get the impression TB that for some, IR is akin to Rocket Science, and just as far out of their reach.

  252. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 1:12 pm

    are above of course is supposed to be aren’t 😉

  253. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 1:15 pm

    I’m entirely happy to agree with that. It’s simply that they can’t be relied on for planning – the agreement only has a 4 week horizon.

    No more than any employment contract … four weeks either way is four weeks … (I do recall that common law originally determined that the maximum that could be “applied” was actually – two weeks – however, legislation may now over-rule that …)

  254. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 16, 2013 1:37 pm

    No, one of the changes to employment conditions contemplated is allowing the ordinary hours of work to commence at (say) 4am without penalty rates. This may allow an employee to better meet family commitments. It may allow the employer to schedule better utilisation of their asset.

    But the employee could be required to give up the beneficial hours at short notice. The employer could be compelled to either pay penalties or significantly change their hours of operation with short notice.

  255. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 1:43 pm

    No, one of the changes to employment conditions contemplated is allowing the ordinary hours of work to commence at (say) 4am without penalty rates.

    And what is being offered in place of those penalty rates?

  256. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 3:53 pm

    And what is being offered in place of those penalty rates?

    Chuckle … a salary (compensation for just “doing” the job usually), and generally (a common law contract) also has hours of work too (eg between 12:59pm and 00:01 am) … but you can put anything in them as long as they comply with the relevant award …

    Mountains out of molehills … reminds me of the paranoi whenever termination of employment is discussed with people who don’t know how to go about it legally (properly) …

  257. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 16, 2013 4:09 pm

    What may be offered to the employee is the ability to collect their child after school, or participate in some of their sporting activities.

    …and the employer may find this operationally efficient.

    Employers who make significant investments don’t rely on instruments that can be terminated at a whim.

  258. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 4:17 pm

    Employers who make significant investments don’t rely on instruments that can be terminated at a whim.

    Tell me, which instruments can’t be … ?

    Any “contract of employment” can be re-negotiated at any time by either party … we print on paper these days – not stone …

  259. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 4:26 pm

    What may be offered to the employee is the ability to collect their child after school

    If he starts at 4, he will be well knocked off by then anyway yomm. If he starts at 6, he still will. You’re not offering the poor sod anything are you? No wonder you’re worried about him having a ‘change of heart’

    Sounds like you are making it up as you go along.

    Besides, no real long term ‘planning’ can be done relying on one employee. That is always an ad-hoc approach. Any real business planning needs to take into account what we have come to call ‘the bus effect’. ie, what if employee such and such is hit by a bus tomorrow, how do we proceed?

    If this one decides to leave or whatever, are you only going to be looking to employ people with children who need to pick them up from school at bloody midday?

    Sounds to me like you are throwing shit up to hide how wrong you were with your initial statement.

    You could always simply pay the award rate if you want someone to start that early.

  260. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 4:27 pm

    we print on paper these days – not stone …

    😆 I don’t know TB, I’m beginning to wonder if yomm ‘shares an office’ with Barney Rubble 😉

  261. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 4:57 pm

    Chuckling a lot just lately, TomR … 😉

  262. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 5:03 pm

    Chuckling a lot just lately, TomR

    There’s a lot to chuckle about just lately TB, on this thread anyway. wally and yomm make a fine team. I just don’t know who the straight man is?

  263. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2013 5:36 pm

    But the employee could be required to give up the beneficial hours at short notice. The employer could be compelled to either pay penalties or significantly change their hours of operation with short notice.

    If I’m at work at 4am I want penalties, is that so hard for employers?

    What school is open at 4am anyway? What are single parents meant to do with their kids at that time?

    How is a 4am start ‘beneficial’ for employees?
    Once more it is one-way flexibility for employers and no flexibility for employees who will get a call in the middle of the night to tell them to be at work early in am – and don’t expect penalties for the privilege of wrecking your home life!
    It’ll be casual work paid at ordinary hours or something like it, “do it or you don’t get any work”

  264. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 16, 2013 5:42 pm

    What ?

    All I’ve been doing here is seeking clarification of a couple of loose comments made by TB and the well accepted philosophy of the Left to seek out mediocrity and preserve it.

    From what I’ve seen here the best examples of and defenders of the philosophy are to be found in South Australia and Queensland.

  265. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 5:52 pm

    seek out mediocrity and preserve it.

    That’s pretty much what this blog is doing with your comments 😉

  266. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 5:55 pm

    is that so hard for employers?

    Yes, when they have the option of NOT paying and offering up the opportunity for the bloke to be able to go and pick his kids up

    Which he would have been able to do anyway

    Apparently this is the sort of genius ‘consultants’ are offering up these days ROFL

  267. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 16, 2013 5:58 pm

    Speaking of mediocrity Telstra called me about my Bigpond connection problem last night at 9 F**king 30.

    When I enquired as to why they had not called at 8pm as arranged no explanation was offered.

    I await the rescheduled call tonight.

  268. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 6:01 pm

    Perhaps you forgot to specify their time or your time wally.

    After all, they are only telstra, they can’t be expected to understand this confusing timezone thingy

  269. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 6:13 pm

    individuals are not allowed to come to legally binding agreements that exceed each of these national employment .standards.

    So has ToM, agreed this statement is incorrect?

  270. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 16, 2013 6:21 pm

    I dunno TomR

    I actually made the outrageous suggestion on Sunday night that perhaps………… just perhaps in view of the fact that every single piece of internet enabled equipment in our house from our iPhones to our iPads and laptops could see the damn Telstra modem via wifi (but not connect to the web via it)………….. and the fact that they had established that the line to their server was OK that the fault must be at their end or I have a dud modem.

    I know that sounded outrageously rational to me at the time but it was not accepted that the modem was the problem on Sunday night.

    Nor was it accepted on Monday night.

    So last night they informed me that tonight we are resetting the modem back to its friggin factory settings.

  271. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 16, 2013 7:16 pm

    Maybe my original comment was a little imprecise. Those instruments are so unused I’d forgotten them.

    Maybe someone uses them to change the morning tea from 10 to 10.15.

    I recall that union agreements have provisions that make them unworkable, and no business reasonably sized business would rely them.
    ————-
    Some (or many) people may wish to work shifts of (say) 4am to 2.30pm – 4 days per week. This may assist accommodate their family responsibilities and if it is suitable for the operations of the employer, why would penalty/shift rates apply?

  272. January 16, 2013 7:20 pm

    “Some (or many) people may wish to work shifts of (say) 4am to 2.30pm – 4 days per week. “

    Yeah, I can just see people lining up to do those sorts of hours…. 🙄

  273. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 7:33 pm

    ToM. You seem to misunderstand the “hours of work” …

    … if a business’ normal times are 8:00am open and closes at 5:00pm then the “hours of work” may span a range of time period that people may be expected to work …

    … in the case above “the hours of work” may be … 6:00 am to 7:00pm … however, most awards are built around 8 hours pay, 8 hours play and 8 hours rest …

    … work hours over and above 8 hours will be paid as overtime … (I used to earn as a tradie – and pay as a manager – time and a half for the first three hours and double time thereafter) … this would be after a full 8 hour day … (eg not including breaks)

    … penalty rates also apply to weekend work … personally I think that’s a bit odd in 2012 (eg a five day week could/should be eg Friday to Tuesday – anything over a five day week should incur penalty payments eg Wednesday or Thursday) … but IR laws have NEVER been perfect …

  274. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 16, 2013 7:45 pm

    TB, I don’t know what you’re on about.

    There are ‘business hours’, ‘day shift hours’, ‘ordinary hours’, ‘span of hours’. All are quite different.

    …and the typical ordinary hours day is 7.6 hours.

  275. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 16, 2013 7:47 pm

    Now, after a hard day of surfing and coffee – I’m off for a meal with lots of good red!

  276. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 7:49 pm

    As for this …

    Some (or many) people may wish to work shifts of (say) 4am to 2.30pm – 4 days per week.

    As a night shift manager for 12 months I started at 10pm and finished at six am … Sunday to Friday … and was paid a penalty rate for every employee (part of my job was to increase production staff from four to 80 + on night shift) … night shift penalty rates for the troops was 30% afternoon 15% and day shift standard rate – this was early eighties …

    The shift you “quote” would be crippling to most people especially at ten a half hours …

    Read up on the Circadian Cycle too …

    I can assure you 12 hour shifts are pretty tough on most folk (I used to often work 14-15 hours on minesites – helping learners).

    I know of minesites allowing 20 minute “random – personal decision – rest stops” for operators and one very well known company stopping night shift all together …

    BTW, 4am is right in the middle of the gravyard “hour” – when I used to make sure my troops didn’t fall, (literally), into plant and machinery!

  277. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2013 8:12 pm

    TB, I don’t know what you’re on about.

    I know … oh, I know … good luck, enjoy your work (someone obviously pays you) … I just remembered I’m retired … and you obviously don’t need my input … and I’m not being paid …

    My concern was that people reading may be misled … still, not my problem …

    (OK, ToM, I ran my own training consultancy, an RTO for the last 16 years of my career – registered to deliver and assess, 15 management quals, up to Advanced Dip. as well as other areas inc. mandatory OH&S – major clients BHPB & Rio Tinto – I specialised in competency based learning … I also have trade, sales, production, line and staff management experience – a business degree in adult learning (that’s why I know when to quit with you) and a coupla diplomas, plus certificates …. your turn … are you game)

    The irony is that a certain landscaper can actually verify the above … ain’t life funny …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I must also say .. that it’s time I had a break … maybe pop back with a nom de plume sometime … seems to be the “modern way” …

    … many thanks to the Blogmeaster, I’m well aware of the troubles you’ve endured over the years, old friend … and I thank you for your indulgence with me …

    To my “left” colleagues … thanks for all your support … I have books to the end of my days thanks to. KL … Ser Tee, be true to yourself as always … and your family … as I know you will … TomR, always like standing back to back …

    My foes on the right … my writings may lead you to believe otherwise but I do defend your right to say what you believe … its just that I don’t always agree with it … we have had agreement and for that I’m glad …

    I do have some old friends at the cafe (who I know pop over here occasionally) … so thanks to all of you for making my posting exciting and interesting …

    Love you one and all …

    TB out …

  278. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2013 8:23 pm

    … but IR laws have NEVER been perfect …

    Never has a more astute comment been posted in these pages. Or stones!

    Hope the break is temporary, and, if you do use a nom de plume, please, something that even I could see through. BT Kingsland perhaps?

    It’s been a pleasure reading your writing TB, always invested with a heavy does of ‘life experience’ and wisdom, which is what I like to get from reading blogs.

    Take care.

  279. el gordo permalink
    January 16, 2013 8:57 pm

    Is TB following in James’ footsteps?

    Or is it a Farnham thingy?

  280. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 16, 2013 9:55 pm

    Well TB, I do hope it wasn’t any perceived slight, none was intended.

    Blogging is a release, nothing more.

  281. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 16, 2013 10:39 pm

    CAPTAINS LOG

    STARDATE: 20-1300

    Aboard the Starship Enterprise

    After 25,000 years of trying at 8 PM every single f@@king night going through the same friggin ” please type this sir, please type that sir, it in you new password sir, please turn off your modem sir, please reboot your laptop sir, what colour lights do you have now sir, I’m sending you a new password by SMS sir, please input your new password sir, could you please sit everything down sir and ill call you back in 20 minutes sir, ……….. hello sir please turn on everything please sir .

    Suddenly with the shock effect of a broadside of photon torpedoes came the words…….

    “Enough………I have had an absolute gutfull of doing this night after night . I demand a new modem. I’m not going to put up with this crap any longer. I was told this would be easy well it’s not with a dud modem and no matter how many keystrokes you make it’s not going to fix it”

    They are finally sending a new modem

    And via my SMSF I’m a friggin shareholder.

    They are unbelievable

  282. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 16, 2013 10:46 pm

    Yeah

    People do tend to invest a lot of emotion into this blogging thing………..it’s a very poor return on the investment most of the time

  283. January 16, 2013 10:50 pm

    “it’s a very poor return on the investment most of the time”

    Hear hear…!

  284. January 16, 2013 10:53 pm

    …On the other hand…..

    Just yesterday I was thinking that my blogging excursions amount to little more than an “online journal/diary” yet almost without fail I have “these people” (whom I’ve never met) turn up to add their two cent’s worth.

    It’s quite weird if you think about it….

  285. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 16, 2013 10:53 pm

    “Some (or many) people may wish to work shifts of (say) 4am to 2.30pm – 4 days per week.”

    Plenty would jump at the chance. How do you people think 24 hour airports work in Europe , America or Asia .

    Just because you wouldn’t work those hours means nothing . Plenty of unemployed over 50s would

    Yes you would have queues

  286. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 16, 2013 10:57 pm

    We do appreciate your efforts very very much reb

    I do hope you don’t doubt that

    Even if After a snide comment from you i do tend to run short of voodoo pins for the tin tin doll all the time LOL

  287. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 16, 2013 10:59 pm

    Any pain through the lower back yet ?

    I’ll twist it in a moment

  288. el gordo permalink
    January 17, 2013 7:06 am

    ‘We do appreciate your efforts very very much reb’

    I second that.

  289. Tom R permalink
    January 17, 2013 8:32 am

    hockey won’t be impressed

    Months after Labor’s mining tax, its carbon tax and its fourth successive budget deficit, Australia has been given the tick of approval by the world’s biggest fund manager.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/economy-gets-big-tick-20130116-2ctw9.html#ixzz2IB0LAfkl

  290. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 17, 2013 11:57 am

    Yes, thanks reb.

    Of course Australia’s economy is going quite well. China continues to grow very strongly.

    If China was growing at 3% we’d probably be in a very serious recession.

    The strength is built on the reforms that started 3 decades ago, even Swan can’t screw it up in 5 years, he’d need 10.

  291. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 17, 2013 12:00 pm

    I was sitting in a coffee shop with a mate this morning when my mobile rang. I could see it was a Melbourne number so I picked it up

    Caller : Hi is that xxxxxxxxx ?

    Me : Yes it is

    Caller : Hi Xxxxxxxxxx its Natalie here from Telstra Customer Service. I’m just calling to see how the transitioning to a Bigpond/Foxtel Bundle is going as…………………..

    What can one say other than ………………”Words Fail Me”

  292. reb of Melbourne permalink
    January 17, 2013 12:39 pm

    Youse are all welcome… 🙂

  293. reb of Melbourne permalink
    January 17, 2013 12:40 pm

    ”Words Fail Me”

    Well that makes a change..!!!

  294. el gordo permalink
    January 17, 2013 12:49 pm

    My business partner visited Centrelink this morning and was told… ‘if you’re over 52 and unemployable you can get the dole by donating 15 hours of your time each week to a charitable organisation.’

    Recession is coming ‘unexpectedly.’

    ‘The jobless rate rose in December as companies unexpectedly cut staff, narrowing the odds of another interest rate cut by the Reserve Bank.

    ‘The number of people employed fell by 5500 after a revised 17,100 gain in November, while the unemplyment rate rose to 5.4 per cent from an upwardly revised 5.3 per cent, the Bureau of Statistics said today.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/jobless-rate-climbs-as-companies-cut-staff-20130117-2cuvg.html#ixzz2IC1sqirj

  295. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 17, 2013 1:57 pm

    Yes, a couple of the businesses I work with are noticing a decline in activity.

    One is PE, and are looking to divest a year ahead of schedule. If those guys are reducing debt it’s a fair signal.

  296. Tom R permalink
    January 17, 2013 2:04 pm

    Just keep prayin’ for the apocalypse wetterz’

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  297. Tom R permalink
    January 17, 2013 2:04 pm

    “We look at ability to pay and willingness to pay. Australia’s budget position has improved. It has never defaulted. It has low debt by international standards.”

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/economy-gets-big-tick-20130116-2ctw9.html#ixzz2ICMAyQ36

  298. Tom R permalink
    January 17, 2013 2:22 pm

    http://twitpic.com/bvtplm

  299. el gordo permalink
    January 17, 2013 2:27 pm

    The economy is soft and in search of a tipping point.

    It would have to be an external catalyst because (as TomR attests) the fundamentals are sound.

  300. Tom R permalink
    January 17, 2013 2:36 pm

    Keep on hopin’ wetta’

  301. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 17, 2013 3:23 pm

    *Economy in decline
    *Slipper in court
    *Thomson case
    *$0 out of MRRT
    *The surplus lie

    It’s probably not quite the combination Gillard had in mind.
    =========
    Remember when Gillard said the government had ‘lost its way? What were the 3 issues she said she’d fix?

  302. Tom R permalink
    January 17, 2013 3:29 pm

    *Slipper in court
    *Thomson case

    not just hopin’ .. graspin’

    What did the judge say about the Slipper case again 😉

    And wasn’t it Thom(P)son 😯

  303. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 17, 2013 3:43 pm

    I don’t think it’s the ideal convergence for an election.

    But what were the 3 issues Gillard promised to fix, after she knifed Rudd?

  304. el gordo permalink
    January 17, 2013 3:49 pm

    Sir, sir…asylum seekers, carbon pollution and union corruption.

  305. January 17, 2013 3:52 pm

    “Another boat another policy failure” ~ Julia Gillard

  306. Tom R permalink
    January 17, 2013 4:02 pm

    asylum seekers, carbon pollution and and mrrt

    only failed on asylum seekers, abysmally

    And won BIG time with Carbon Price

  307. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 17, 2013 4:38 pm

    1. Asylum seekers = an outrageous, inhumane appeal to rednecks.

    2. Carbon tax = ‘not before June 2013’, ‘no carbon tax’ & ‘organise a big committee’. Score=0

    3. MRRT= a tax with no tax revenue.

    On each Gillard is a failure.

  308. January 17, 2013 4:40 pm

    4. marriage equality

  309. el gordo permalink
    January 17, 2013 5:04 pm

    ‘As far as policy failures go, the Gillard government’s carbon tax, which has helped deliver the largest quarterly rise in electricity prices since 1980, is hard to beat on so many fronts but then again there is its mining tax which last year collected no revenue.’

    Piers Akerman

  310. January 17, 2013 5:25 pm

    Haw, haw, haw…

    Quoting Piss.

  311. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 17, 2013 5:25 pm

    I think Gillard has failed on each of the ‘lost way’ issues she used as her excuse to knife Rudd.

    She has also failed on socially progressive issues, and on questions of honesty and judgement.

  312. January 17, 2013 5:27 pm

    Shouldn’t you patriots be fist pumping about Aussie Bernard’s stirring victory?

  313. Tom R permalink
    January 17, 2013 5:38 pm

    1. Asylum seekers = an outrageous, inhumane appeal to rednecks. I AGREE!

    2. Carbon tax = Carbon Price, implemented earlier than planned, but implemented

    3. MRRT= a tax that only taxes “Super Profits”. No ‘Super’ Profits, therefore no tax. msm fear campaign exposed for the crap it was.

  314. January 17, 2013 5:45 pm

    Awww, fuck it!

    I just read back up the thread (I’ve been on summer hiatus at the family beachplace)…& I seem to have missed TB’s departure by 24 hrs; dammit! 😦

  315. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 17, 2013 5:45 pm

    Bernie, Bernie, Bernie
    OI!OI!OI!

  316. January 17, 2013 5:47 pm

    “Now I have another tacker arriving in a couple of weeks.”

    Onya, snacty! 🙂

  317. January 17, 2013 5:48 pm

    Anyone else ever done much reef snorkelling?

    That’s some trippy shit right there! Great fun.

  318. el gordo permalink
    January 17, 2013 5:52 pm

    Welcome back boss.

  319. el gordo permalink
    January 17, 2013 7:59 pm

    The long awaited revolution in the US might come about because of gun law reform.

  320. el gordo permalink
    January 17, 2013 9:35 pm

    ‘BP predicts that by 2030, the US will be self-sufficient in energy, with only 1 per cent coming from imports. That would be a remarkable turnaround for a country that as recently as 2005, before the shale gas boom, was one of the biggest global oil importers.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/forget-peak-oil-says-bp-chief-20130117-2culc.html#ixzz2IEBF7w4G

  321. January 17, 2013 11:45 pm

    Most conservative faiths have most of the following on their lists of the sackable: gays and lesbians, single mothers, adulterers – yes, even adulterers! – bisexuals, transsexuals, the intersex and couples like Gillard and Tim Mathieson.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/gillards-bizarre-act-of-faith-leaves-vulnerable-unprotected-20130113-2cnf0.html
    this is why I don`t see much difference in the duopoly
    Maimly dropped this for reb, but I`m sure the Tea_Guzzlers will enjoy Joolyas stupidity with this, probably piss armchair off a bit too.

  322. January 17, 2013 11:49 pm

    correction, Mainly dropped this for reb

  323. January 17, 2013 11:56 pm

    TB enjoy your break/holiday, happy trails!

  324. January 18, 2013 12:06 am

    I see the Tea guzzler HandBook is Lacking when it comes to Human Resource Management and Industrial relations too.

  325. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 18, 2013 9:30 am

    So 7:30. Could you name which of the people in charge of the Gay Mardi Gras past and present have been “straight” ?

    How about the editor of the Sydney Star Observer ?

    Don’t rush……………….I’ll wait patiently

    Or perhaps they also dicriminate towards those of likeminded views ?

    OK I’ll let you off the hook.

    My point is you want to paint such discrimination as religious based.

    It is clearly not so

  326. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 18, 2013 9:36 am

    “BP predicts that by 2030, the US will be self-sufficient in energy, with only 1 per cent coming from imports……….”

    Yes Eg

    ToSY used to bang on about this all the time. I must confess I didn’t take too much notice until I saw a few headlines saying the “USA Awash in LNG”……………”USA Primed to Export Gas to Asia”.

    That got my attention as I’m pretty heavily invested in Woodside, Santos and Origin Energy. So I don’t like to see the threat of the World awash in LNG ……..LOL.

    Currently the USA pretty much bans the export of gas which might soon be lifted. But as far as exporting to Asia is concerned its not going to really impact until 2025.

    Or so many say that.

  327. January 18, 2013 10:04 am

    “My point is you want to paint such discrimination as religious based.
    It is clearly not so”

    If their “right to discriminate” is not based on religious ideology, then what is it based on…?

  328. January 18, 2013 10:07 am

    If I had to hazard a guess, I’d probably say that it’s based on the narrow-minded bigoted views of a few crusty old silver hair conservatives who think that it gives them a ticket to heaven if they can identify a few other people who are not quite up to their mean-spirited pursed lips little twin-set wearing ways….

    I’ve met a lot of them over the years, they’re all the fkn same, and more often than not conservative/Liberal voters…

  329. el gordo permalink
    January 18, 2013 10:31 am

    ToSY was always enthusiastic about fracking and its geopolitical implications.

    Apparently, Sydney is atop a huge amount of this gas… so we can expect a conflict of interest sometime in the future.

  330. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 18, 2013 10:46 am

    OK

    My Bad

    I should have phrased it “such discrimination abounds and is not purely religious based”

  331. January 18, 2013 2:53 pm

    Jock Shock knows how to miss the point
    http://flourishandbloggs.com/2013/01/15/everyone-calm-the-fuck-down-jim-wallace-has-been-reassured/
    ps. I don`t give a flying fcuk who runs mardi gras!

  332. January 18, 2013 3:05 pm

    mainly for reb, (and more duopoly) ….
    http://flourishandbloggs.com/2013/01/16/jim-wallace-blames-homosexuality-for-clergy-child-abuse/
    partial transcript of king acl froot-loop jim wallace, who tries to distort pedo-priest and cover-up as, `homosexuality`. Wallace returns to the favored circle-jerk of hate, (wogs,abos,poofs,boatpeople) that so-called `christians` seem to use so often.

  333. January 18, 2013 3:20 pm

    “_OK I’ll let you off the hook._”
    you have never had anybody on any hook, ever, jock shock
    you just show, yet again, how Lacking the Tea_Guzzler Hand_Book really is

  334. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 18, 2013 3:37 pm

    Religious organisations may prefer to discriminate against particular types of potential employees. In which case they should be disqualified from government assistance.

    I think one of the reasons Keating lost office was that his government was perceived as being paralysed by well organised narrow interest groups, including unions.

    Appeasement of every group isn’t a good look to an electorate that wants leadership on socially progressive issues.

  335. January 18, 2013 3:49 pm

    “_bigoted views of a few crusty old silver hair conservatives who think that it gives them a ticket to heaven_”
    Yes, I will give up `atheism` so I can be locked up for eternity with them.

  336. January 18, 2013 4:02 pm

    “_Religious organisations may prefer to discriminate against particular types of_” people including, employees, gays, other_religions, rape_victims, abused_children, single_parents, and unmarried_couples. And “_they should be disqualified from government assistance_” in all forms including, but not limited to, tax_breaks and immunity from prosecution for child sex crimes and the cover-up of those crimes.

  337. January 18, 2013 4:32 pm

    National Assembly of the Uniting Church in Australia.
    http://thatsmyphilosophy.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/and-credit-where-credit-is-due-uniting-church-of-australia/

    UnitingJustice is deeply concerned that the wide ranging list of protected attributes to which an exception applies for religious organisations serves only to perpetuate the potential for discrimination both by and within religious organisations and institutions.

    `uniting church` not backing wallace`s froot loops at acl and doesn`t reckon Joolya and Roxon should be either more duopoly

  338. 2DT Shock Jock permalink
    January 18, 2013 6:23 pm

    “ps. I don`t give a flying fcuk who runs mardi gras!”

    I didnt ask you to.

    I asked you to name the last straight person that ran it or whether the selection of the editor of the Sydney Star Observer is employed on a discriminatory basis.

    The fact that you choose to avoid the question is upto you.

    “………..And “_they should be disqualified from government assistance_” in all forms including, but not limited to, tax_breaks………..”

    Thats fine.

    But so should Trade Unions. Why should members donations for a Church be tax free and whilst members union fees be given special tax free status.

    Of course organisations like the Salvation Army and St Vincents will probably then need to turn away many of the poor.

    And of course organisations like the St Vincents Hospice in Darlinghurst which treats many sufferers of HIV would probably also close

    And union fees would also need to increase putting a further burden upon the working class.

    Tax the lot.

    Or perhaps consider the ramifications of doing so before you take that step.

  339. January 18, 2013 6:33 pm

    ” jim wallace, who tries to distort pedo-priest and cover-up as, `homosexuality”

    Just as his best mate George Pell prefers to describe sexual predators and CRIMINALS in his ranks as “errant priests..”

  340. January 18, 2013 6:34 pm

    “reb, check out the photo on here…”

    Yes, it’s odd how so many political and religious leaders “talk” about equality for all in theory, but fail miserably when it comes to “the real world..”

  341. January 18, 2013 7:00 pm

    “_CRIMINALS in his ranks as “errant priests_”
    Yeah, the same kind of *church_derp was flowing out of Peter Jenkins mouth not so long ago. I wonder when he`s going to join in.

  342. January 18, 2013 7:05 pm

    ps. I don`t give a flying fcuk who edits the Sydney Star Observer

  343. January 18, 2013 7:18 pm

    Joolya and Mr-Rabbit are often the same.
    Todays Duopoly List
    1. Anti-Gay, Pro-Church-Froot-Loops
    2. Off-Shore-Boatpeople
    3. Crotch Nuzzling Yank Lap-Dogs

  344. January 18, 2013 7:36 pm

    Like Jenkins, expect also the `Deluded`Brethren to raise their heads.
    They`re a bottom-less barrel of bile too.

  345. January 18, 2013 10:10 pm

    something for armchair
    http://noplaceforsheep.com/2013/01/18/has-our-first-female-pm-legitimised-misogyny/
    sheep also challenging joolya/acl
    (I bleated too)

  346. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 18, 2013 11:07 pm

    http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/paris-hilton-loses-inheritance/story-e6frfkp9-1111114069570

    ”Paris Hilton loses inheritance.”

    Life is so unfair. She seems nice.

  347. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 18, 2013 11:53 pm

    Strange how the extreme Left like 7:30 despise Christians and Jews and their religion but embrace radical Islam via really peaceful people like Hamas.

    Apparently it was something like 45.8C in Sydney today. A new record. And the usual gullible Left are swallowing the whole completely man made climate change thingy yet again.

    Last record was in 1939.

    But the Green Left never mention there is a lot more concrete and glass in Sydney these days compared to 1939.

    Instead of running in circles wetting and shitting themselves they should be running around listening to Father Tim Flannery and his next prediction giggling hysterically.

    Someone get some new undies for 7:30

  348. el gordo permalink
    January 19, 2013 7:17 am

    it has been warm, there is no denying it. The reason for the record breaking heat is the late northern monsoon season, which may be linked to global cooling..

  349. January 19, 2013 8:47 am

    “But the Green Left never mention there is a lot more concrete and glass in Sydney these days compared to 1939.”

    Yes, that must really affect the temperature a lot out in Dubbo.

  350. January 19, 2013 8:48 am

    ” the extreme Left like 7:30 ”

    Funny how you have a tendency to label people as “extreme left”…

  351. January 19, 2013 8:49 am

    I’ll be the first to admit that you don’t have to be religious to be homophobic.

    But it helps.

  352. January 19, 2013 8:58 am

    “_denying it. The reason_”
    is the hockey-stick deity says global cooling prevents bushfires and we are all going to freeze.
    Guzzle ya Tea while it`s hot.

  353. January 19, 2013 9:02 am

    ps. I don`t give a flying fcuk about “_concrete and glass in Sydney_”

  354. January 19, 2013 9:06 am

    This is quite good…

    Although how they managed to film me skiiing without me knowing is beyond me..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=EEu42L0ufBY

  355. January 19, 2013 9:06 am

    “_you don’t have to be religious to be homophobic._”
    Tho they do seem to run the best redneck training programs.

  356. el gordo permalink
    January 19, 2013 9:46 am

    ‘is the hockey-stick deity says global cooling prevents bushfires and we are all going to freeze.’

    You are a little confused.

  357. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 19, 2013 1:26 pm

    Religious organisations may prefer to discriminate against particular types of potential employees. In which case they should be disqualified from government assistance.

    Yes, why the taxpayer should fund any bigotry, intolerance and discrimination is beyond me. Julia Gillard has caved to the religious lobby as have all the others before her. I can’t see how it can be viewed as anything other than a religious discrimination because the reasoning put forward is “religious freedom” and it is only granted to religious organisations.

    Come back soon TB, I’ll be missing you and your dissection of irrationally held opinions.
    Your argument re working at 4am was spot on, as someone who regularly does night shift I can tell you 4am is the worst time for fatigue and mistakes, it is the time that most become the living dead. And if that is ever considered to be ‘ordinary working hours’ then profit has taken over human biology [circadian rhythms]. I look forward to the day that bean counting managers & bosses will be held personally liable and sued for illness and stress caused to people through inhumane rostering practices.

  358. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 19, 2013 2:14 pm

    “_you don’t have to be religious to be homophobic._”

    But you do have to be an organised religion to be allowed to legally discriminate on that basis.

    And pantswetting scared of the family ‘values’ that they impose on a wider society being rejected and the values of others being seen as equally valid.

    It’s a fight for the very survival of the god ruled human race “reach for your guns and bibles!”

  359. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 19, 2013 11:26 pm

    Calm down 730!

    I don’t expect you to answer the questions about the good work the evil salvos do.

    By the way did Dubbo post a record temperature ?

  360. Truly Evil Walrus @ Palm Bitch permalink
    January 19, 2013 11:31 pm

    Annyway I’m out of here for a week or more if you are all lucky LOL

    Off OS to get rid of pesky income.

    Hawaii looks nice

    But it’s Gold Coast instead

    Cheapskate bloody conference organisers

  361. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 20, 2013 1:46 am

    People who are prepared to accept tony abbott as a PM must be judged on character themselves. Like contracting the mafia to manage your business.

    Nasty. To the core.

    …My contention is that because we are looking at a litany of instances of lying, deception and bad behaviour over a long period of time he simply doesn’t have the essence of character which is one of the main ingredients in the recipe of leadership…

  362. el gordo permalink
    January 20, 2013 6:26 am

    LONDON, Jan 18 (Reuters Point Carbon) – European carbon prices plunged by as much as 10 percent on Friday after energy bourse EEX cancelled a German auction for 4 million EU Allowances, citing a lack of demand.

  363. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 20, 2013 9:36 am

    AO – ”And if that is ever considered to be ‘ordinary working hours’ then profit has taken over human biology

    There are plenty of people who would prefer to work 4am to 2.30pm on 4 days a week, rather than 7.30am to 4pm on 5 days a week.

    It isn’t simply a management issue, plenty of people want to work different hours to accommodate their personal of family interests.

    Really, not everything just boils down to the “bosses are bastards” mantra.
    =====================
    Holidays end, for the time being.

  364. January 20, 2013 12:31 pm

    “_the good work the evil salvos do._”
    Wot did they do!
    “_I don’t expect you to answer the questions_”
    and I don`t expect I`ll have any ..

  365. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 20, 2013 1:57 pm

    There are plenty of people who would prefer to work 4am to 2.30pm on 4 days a week, rather than 7.30am to 4pm on 5 days a week.

    some might prefer to work those hours, how many is plenty tomM?

    Don’t pretend that they are ordinary working hours though and that they should not receive penalties for the harmful health effects and social/family isolation etc

    When banks are open and plumbers are available from 4am to 2-30, then you might have a case.

  366. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 20, 2013 7:14 pm

    It’s interesting, being a sport lover.

    I just turned on the tennis, and all the indications are that this will be a great game on tennis, Radwanska v Ivanovic.

  367. el gordo permalink
    January 22, 2013 8:19 am

    ‘AUSTRALIA’S biggest class action could be launched against the Queensland government on the basis of new flood modelling that claims thousands of homes and businesses were needlessly inundated during the 2011 flood crisis because of the “negligence” and “incompetence” of Wivenhoe Dam’s operators.

    ‘After a 12-month, $1 million investigation, law firm Maurice Blackburn – backed by a $10m fighting fund from litigation financier IMF Australia – said yesterday its commissioned research would underpin the class action against the state of Queensland.’

    Sarah Elks in the Oz

  368. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 3, 2014 11:10 am

    Interesting to scroll through this thread, the contributor previously known as 7.30 Report used to comprehend grammar and spelling.

    Clearly the combination of sock puppetry and substances have caused the decline.

  369. eggboxtroll permalink
    October 3, 2014 1:08 pm

    That might account for it.

  370. eggboxtroll permalink
    October 3, 2014 1:32 pm

    From Psychology Today: Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists

  371. October 3, 2014 2:01 pm

    Yes, we know you are.

  372. eggboxtroll permalink
    October 3, 2014 4:30 pm

    You have me all wrong, I’m a glutton for punishment.

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