Confidence Finally Kicks in!

‘….the impacts of the Labor Government’s Carbon Tax have generally been negligible.’

Except for the negative impact on very small business … joolya made sure her constituents were featherbedded.

All VSBs in my town had to pay three times our normal power bill and we are not happy.

Small businesses do fail regularly, but up until the tax we were all viable operations. Exit strategies are now gaining in popularity as we struggle to pay the bills.

“Some blame a hostile media for Labor’s failures,…………..”

LOL

Why not just Wayne Swan and Gillards attrocious negotiation skills?
**********************************************************************
GILLARD

Gillards problem can be traced straight back to February 2010 when she announced the Carbon Tax plus the bullshit she caried on with about trying to convince people she “always wanted to price carbon” so that was never promised.

She treated the electorate like idiots and they hate her for it and she’ll never recover.

She could have easily told the Greens to fuck off and go deal with Abbott.

How can you blame the Media for that ??????????????????????????
*************************************************************************
SWAN
Then if you step back and look at the bigger picture the past economic performance gets a “satisfactory” pass mark.

But Swan has been promising a Surplus month after month after month. The Media didnt make him do that. He fed it to them.

Finally he admits defeat and now he starts talking not about a Surplus but about Tax Increases on Superannuation etc. Then this morning he refuses to rule out income tax increases to

a) Return the Budget to Surplus
b) Fund Gonski
c) Fund the NDS
d) Fund the $4B hole for ongoing compensation paymments that will arrive when the Carbon Tax goes to an ETS and revenue drops from $23 p/tonne to the current market rate of $6

The Media does not foist these policies onto Swan and Gillard

Now that Swan had no credibility in his own estimates ( with all the resurces of Treasury behind him) he can now be held up to deserved ridicule whenever he questions the LNPs costings as we head to an election

Swan’s a joke and Gillard is the biggest vomit inducing lying low life maggot of a PM to ever occupy the Lodge

I enjoy the “blame the media” game.

Don’t forget that the behaviour of Thomson was originally a “media beat up”. Every foible of this government is apparently the fault of the media.

…except the poor polling – that can apparently be blamed on corrupt pollsters.

“…except the poor polling – that can apparently be blamed on corrupt pollsters.”

ROFLMAO

One of your best lines ever ToM………………………One of your best

And despite the claims that the 1 July introduction of the Carbon Tax went well for Gillard it seems that now the Opposition can point to a new sting in its tail as initial estimates are that there will now be a $4 Billion hole in the Budget when it morphs into an ETS just to pay the compensating Welfare and “Overcompensation” payments.

We have not heard the last of the Carbon Tax yet

“… your language really is unnecessary”

And maybe I just do it to get a reaction from…………………………………………You

ROFLMAO

All that makes sense to me SB.

By the way, remember when Rudd was PM… the last poll before he was knifed had the ALP in front 2PP – 52% to 48%. The hacks panicked at these results, they considered Gillard a “vote magnet”

The hacks panicked at these results, they considered Gillard a “vote magnet”

No they didn’t, that was the only public excuse they could muster for the insider ‘coup’ against Rudd by the NSW right wing, it was always about the overthrow of Kevin because he wasn’t following their dictates.

So much agonising, so much pain, all for nought really. If the labor right wing had held their ground, the original mining tax would be already in. Kevin lost his job because the industry and lobby is bigger than any government. I remember thinking at the time of the ‘new’ compromised MRRT “what’s to stop the states and miners colluding over royalties and forcing the feds to pay for it?”

There was no way Kevin was going to give in on the miners tax and that is why they rolled him, the nation sold out because the right wing of Labor are wedded to neoliberal ideology and caved in to political pressure from the industry. The public were with Rudd Labor on this tax, they would have been on a winner, why did they sell us out? Too cowardly, too corrupted by power to do what is right. Same with the pokies reforms, Labor get $ from the industry, so refuse to act in the public interest.

The jobs, jobs, jobs mantra has become an all important priority in Labor, it outweighs any vision, any much needed reform and any duty to ‘the public good’. The alternative is a party that is even more wedded to corporate representation and unregulated profiteering with worker exploitation.

We’ve now come full circle. The right wing of Labor must bear full responsibility for the trashing and destruction of the party’s reputation. It appears that they still refuse to do what is right and decent by all which is to give up personal power and implement a grass roots reform of the party to allow for a democratic re-structure.

Either a power crazed and ruthless Abbott gets in by undeserved default or a power crazed and ruthless right wing Labor gets back in by the skin of their teeth – what is the point to holding an election, it’s the public who are overlooked, sidelined and ignored.

I’m still hoping for another minority govt. The only time we progress as a nation is when the two majors are forced into it, they are both corrupt and corrupted, neither of them should be allowed to run the country.

“…you appreciate the truth of Beazley Snr’s lament that a movement which once attracted by the cream of the working class is now home to the dregs of the middle class…”

As opposed to the dregs of the upper class, those who know “the price of everything and the value of nothing”

Rudd – PM
Combet – Defence & Deputy
Emerson – Treasurer
Butler – Health
Bradbury – Trade
Cameron – Immigration
Smith – Foreign Affairs
Dreyfus – Attorney General
Leigh – Climate Change
Plibersek – Education & Indigenous
Clare – Agriculture & Fisheries
Albanese – Employment & IR

I would have liked to see Chris Evans somewhere but he’s had a gut full.

Gary Gray PM and Bradbury (treasurer) is a progressive ticket.

What message would you really send by switching your vote from the ALP to the Liberals?:

http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/if-youre-pissed-off-with-the-alp-that-doesnt-mean-you-have-to-vote-for-the-liberals/

…If you want to send the message that Labor’s behaviour has been dodgy and you’re disgusted with it and you want them to actually be a progressive party – then the choice is obvious. Vote for the Greens and preference Labor above the Liberals.

My sentiments exactly.

“…If you want to send the message that Labor’s behaviour has been dodgy and you’re disgusted with it and you want them to actually be a progressive party…………”

When you look at the Opinion Polls I’d say this government has unified most of the electorate in a way very few would have thought possible.

In fact I think they still have enough time left to do an even better job in unifying the vote.

In fact Gillard has led a government quite unlike anything we have seen in Opinion Poll history.

ROFLMAO

Then I’d worry that the Greens would get actually get bums on seats in Parliament and really shut the show down …

G’arn, be daring, don’t be frightened! What’s the worst that could happen, that we might actually get a better system than we have now?
It would be nice if the right wing death grip that’s in place in australia shifted back a little to the centre and our economy served the needs of our society more.

Everyone whinges about the corrupt duopoly but they are too scared to actually put their vote where it counts to change the status quo!

http://www.newspoll.com.au/opinion-polls-2/opinion-polls-2/

It is simply a comparison of standard newspoll figures at a point in time eight months before elections, in response to the rubbish posted by 2DT Shock Jock, no more, no less.

PMJH = Prime Minister John Howard
PMJG = Prime Minister Julia Gillard
LOTO = Leader Of The Opposition

S = Satisfaction rating
D = Dissatisfaction rating

All numbers are percentages.

2001, eight months out from an election was demonstrably worse for the Howard government than the current figures are for the Gillard government. Not “quite unlike anything we have seen in Opinion Poll history.“

New polls next week will confirm that the entire government is NOT on any performance enhancing drugs.

“I would be very sorry to see Australia suffer under a rightwing government as we in the UK are.”

Do you seriously believe you can run up government deficits year after year after year and continue to borrow year after year after year and your lenders will continue to give you money ?

Rather than pay the interest you borrow more money to make repayments.

Well do you ?

And don’t give me the crap that you can just print more money as that debases the value of your currency and exposes the lender to currency losses

Hastening your demise.

What would you do when lenders eventually refuse to lend anymore?

“…..Just out of the blue, with no prompting or questioning from you,…”

All I did was ask him how business is. We go there at least once a month and last time on a Saturday night (it was raining I concede) he said at the time….. “it is tar-wobble”

Tick..Tick…Tick…Tick….Tick…Tick..Tick…Tick…Tick….Tick…

Thats the sound of the ALP leadership timebomb hidden within the Opinion Polls due out next week

Parliament back on the 12th……………………it will be an interesting Autumn

We need TomR here to hose down all this ridiculous leadership speculation. Just like he did last February and March

“Here’s an unconfirmed and unaccountable tip…Julia & Tim will marry in July!”

No ToM

I’m going to violently disagree .

She will do anything for a good poll to stave off Rudd.

We will see a “baby bump”

But it won’t be real

The grub will do “whatever it takes”

Just back from opening 2 large bottles if mineral water from Italy

A very good thirst quencher

I’m still here and I agree with the Vietnamese restaurant owner, as soon as joolya announced a date there was an instant pickup in business.

Its the certainty she brings to guvmint.

Saw somewhere recently that seven percent of owners and employees of VSBs will be voting for joolya. It really is a disgrace.

I agree TB . Raise the GST.

But increase the tax threshold and leave the company rate where it is.

Plus drop stupid things like all home grants all baby bonus shit all family benefits a & b
plus old age tax offsets etc

Plus tax major lump sum withdrawals from super funds.

Under no circumstance should you be able to blow all your super as soon as you retire. The 9% was always meant as a pension and salary sacrifice amounts should enhance it further. You should only be able to withdraw in a lump after tax contributions .

Oh…well that’s all right then.

In the interest of diversity it would be noice to have free and unhindered movement and not have the door closed in my face.

It’s odd that you remain in moderation EG. I’ve noticed several that are far more intent on creating annoyance than you (or me for that matter)

At the cafe I’ve been as good as gold on that score, but taking a lead from Treeman I may have flouted the rules occasionally.

At AIMN I mentioned the biblical flood when the post was about a virgin birth.

Reb thinks I’m a silly obsessed individual and sends me to my room.

Its a question of mass delusion, the power of propaganda and how humanity was looking in the wrong direction at a pivotal moment in history.

My last deviation was not meant to derail, it was a graph showing the cost of power bills.

At the time it was relevant to the conversation, TB was there and called me out, I just wanted to prove a point … not nip out the back and shout I’ve got a link.

What sort of girlie man do you think I am?

‘Why call you out if it was relevant?’

From memory, it was about whether prices had gone up and would it still be an election issue. Anyway, it doesn’t matter now.

‘Now your using your feminine wiles, egg?’

Elsewhere they still refer to me in that way, so I thought I might make it part of my act.

I’ve told them time and again that I’m male, but the thugs use my genteel nature as an opportunity to denigrate… very sexist.

Admittedly I do like the company of alpha males for their wit and wisdom.

A man. A plan. A canal. Panama.

There’s a lot more to what Hitler said than a speech in 1927. 🙄

Hitler routed communists & crushed labour movements. Have a bit of a look, or read a bit more widely than Delingpole. Try putting several decades of his utterances into context; rather than cherrypicking his early, politically calculating years & speeches.
It wouldn’t be hard to find quotes from the man utterly denouncing communism; violently so.

The ‘socialism’ in Nazi is about as meaningful as the ‘democracy’ alluded to in Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (North Korea). It’s a rightwing red herring. A leftover vestige of the Party which Hitler comandeered in its infancy. He paid lipservice to a whole lot of ideological claptrap, which he was more than happy to recant or ignore after he’d secured the manipulated support of the masses.

It’s no surprise that the right try & disown Hitler.

People who’ve never read more than a few summaries of the man swallow it whole.

Liberal Fascism …

GUFFAW!…at the Heritage Foundation.

“The Heritage Foundation is an American conservative think tank based in Washington, D.C. Heritage’s stated mission is to “formulate and promote conservative public policies…”

A rightwing Thinktank.

How surprisement. 🙄

Not much of a vested interest in smearing the left & covering the tracks of the right there, eh?!

And what have you got against Pinochet?

LOL

‘We are socialists because we see in socialism, that is the union of all citizens, the only chance to maintain our racial inheritance and to regain our political freedom and renew our German state.

‘Socialism is the doctrine of liberation for the working class. It promotes the rise of the fourth class and its incorporation in the political organism of our Fatherland, and is inextricably bound to breaking the present slavery and regaining German freedom. Socialism, therefore, is not merely a matter of the oppressed class, but a matter for everyone, for freeing the German people from slavery is the goal of contemporary policy. Socialism gains its true form only through a total fighting brotherhood with the forward-striving energies of a newly awakened nationalism. Without nationalism it is nothing, a phantom, a mere theory, a castle in the sky, a book. With it it is everything, the future, freedom, the fatherland!

‘The sin of liberal thinking was to overlook socialism’s nation-building strengths, thereby allowing its energies to go in anti-national directions. The sin of Marxism was to degrade socialism into a question of wages and the stomach, putting it in conflict with the state and its national existence. An understanding of both these facts leads us to a new sense of socialism, which sees its nature as nationalistic, state-building, liberating and constructive.

‘The bourgeois is about to leave the historical stage. In its place will come the class of productive workers, the working class, that has been up until today oppressed. It is beginning to fulfill its political mission. It is involved in a hard and bitter struggle for political power as it seeks to become part of the national organism. The battle began in the economic realm; it will finish in the political. It is not merely a matter of wages, not only a matter of the number of hours worked in a day — though we may never forget that these are an essential, perhaps even the most significant part of the socialist platform — but it is much more a matter of incorporating a powerful and responsible class in the state, perhaps even to make it the dominant force in the future politics of the fatherland. The bourgeoisie does not want to recognize the strength of the working class. Marxism has forced it into a straitjacket that will ruin it. While the working class gradually disintegrates in the Marxist front, bleeding itself dry, the bourgeoisie and Marxism have agreed on the general lines of capitalism, and see their task now to protect and defend it in various ways, often concealed.

‘We are socialists because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that corresponds to what he produces. We have no intention of begging for that right. Incorporating him in the state organism is not only a critical matter for him, but for the whole nation. The question is larger than the eight-hour day. It is a matter of forming a new state consciousness that includes every productive citizen. Since the political powers of the day are neither willing nor able to create such a situation, socialism must be fought for. It is a fighting slogan both inwardly and outwardly. It is aimed domestically at the bourgeois parties and Marxism at the same time, because both are sworn enemies of the coming workers’ state. It is directed abroad at all powers that threaten our national existence and thereby the possibility of the coming socialist national state.’

Joseph Goebbels (from a popular 1929 pamphlet)

Now go forward & dig up all of Goebbels’ post 1929 output, el gordo.

I’m sure you’re aware that he was a propagandist of renown. Did your selection of a convenient slab sound much like propaganda? hmmmm.

The Nazis manipulated public sentiment in many ways. The germs of which were negative public sentiment to the Versailles Treaty. Hitler demonstrated that he was willing to say & do almost anything to eventually gain ultimate power.
They did a lot of crapping on about all kinds of things which were abandoned & ignored when they became unexpeditious in achieving Hitler’s overarching aims.
The Nazis were in bed with corporate Germany & only told the working population what they thought they wanted to hear.
The German command economy was almost entirely geared towards accelarated, post WW1 rearmament; once Hitler got control.

There is plenty of literature available to give you a detailed picture of why Nazi Germany was anything but a socialist paradise.

All you have to do is try reading unDelingpoled analysis. Try historians…rather than polemic disseminators.

Fancy, a Socialist cozying up to El Duce. 🙄

“And what have you got against Pinochet?”

Only that he was a murderous dictator, installed by Uncle Sam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinochet_regime#Human_rights_violations

Something which doesn’t trouble those who piss their knickers about communist boogeymen.

I’m suggesting the socialist roots of Naziism are supported by the contemporary evidence. Where the party ended up under Hitler is another thing.

‘A rightwing Thinktank. How surprisement. ‘

You’re not likely to hear these kinds of inconvenient truths from left wing groups. BTW, where are the scholarly articles linking the foundations of Naziism and fascism to right wing thought?

There are plenty of scholarly articles linking Mussolini to left wing thought, but you can start with his non-scholarly Wiki entry, under “Political journalist and socialist”.

The USA may or may not have installed Pinochet (disputed), and he may or may not have been responsible for multiple human rights violations (disputed), but it is indisputable that the economic reforms instituted on the advice of his Chicago School advisers led to Chile being a shining light in South America, economically speaking, and rated eleventh in the world on a survey of economic freedom.

Mussolini was a communist, Obama was a muslim, Hitler was leftwing, The Christian god created everything, Free markets are best for everyone, Pinochet was awesome & warranted…

I think I’m starting to get it.

Let’s pretend that how they began, or things that they said as they walked upon heads all the way to the top, defines the entirety of their historical footnotes. Quite a strategy.

Soooo.

Do we still accept that the statement…“Hitler was a socialist. It’s an indisputable fact.”… is valid?

Seeing as how we’re doing the whole hairsplitting & disputing thingo.

It must be hard to define yourself as a leftist when all the historical evidence says leftism doesn’t work, and is responsible for the murder of hundreds of millions of innocent people. It would be nice, as a self proclaimed compassionate leftoid, to try and counter the atrocities of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot et al by labelling Hitler and Mussolini as right wing. But, unfortunately for lefties, the evidence doesn’t support that, either.

Well Tony stranger, as you well know, I don’t define myself narrowly or paint myself into a corner like that.
As you are also long aware, you won’t see me defending Stalin, or any other murderous egomaniacal dictator. I loathe totalitarianism.

That doesn’t mean I just lay down & go along with the Right’s rebranding & distancing.

I’m yet to see any evidence which proves to me that Hitler or Mussolini were leftwing.

Just as you won’t accept, I imagine, that they weren’t . I see a lot of loose points being drawn out of context, being made to fit a rightwing interpretation of how they’d like those dictators to be remembered.

I’m willing to accept the more reasonable observation that most of them were totalitarian tyrants with little regard for their own people, let alone human life. I think, generally their ideologies took a backseat to their egomania with absolute power.
I don’t in any way concede that the ills of the world are leftist in origin…or that rightwing thought is without blemish & attrocity as a means to an end.

“Personally, I’m very big on individualism. I’ve never considered myself to be herdlike or comfortable with mass conformity.”

I don’t know how to break this to you, but, if you’re not into collectivism, you might need to reconsider your ostensible anti-rightism. 😯

Pleasure to make your reacquaintance.

Religious and social conservatives aren’t my idea of right-wing thinking, except to the extent that classical liberalism tolerates all of the above, and welcomes arguments from anyone, including the left. It’s a melting pot of ideas, without trying to silence anyone. That’s where the left falls down, IMO.

I can see the merit in that.

Ideas should live or die on their merits.

I hate the shutting down of discourse.

I think you have a different idea of what the right is than the right has of itself.

Admittedly, the definitions of left & right are so broad as to be almost meaningless.

I think being aligned is folly. There are rarely absolutes…& if you nail yourself to a movement, eventually it’s going to let you down, violate its supposed principles and shit on your goodwill. Often expecting ‘followers’ to suspend their vigilance, good judgement & common sense…in the name of the cause.

I suppose ‘ideas’ are worthy, but humans essentially can’t live up to them?

I am hugely sceptical of all of the choices on the table in our impending Federal election.

I doubt I’ll be able to bring myself to cast a vote.

The two majors are so similar as to be identical…& the parties outside of them are approaching lunacy in their own ways.

I just hope that some sort of moderation is achieved.

Individualism is not restricted to the right, it exists in both left and right.

Ellen Meiksins Wood. Mind and Politics: An Approach to the Meaning of Liberal and Socialist Individualism. University of California Press. 1972.

Ch. 4. The problem of Individualism p126-146:

http://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/891075

…The opposition of individualism to socialism simply reflects the central importance of the question of property to – indeed, its inseparability from – the problem of individualism. It has even been suggested, by John Dewey, for example, that the principles of property and its acquisition are all that now remain of the old liberal individualism”

“…Hence the irony of the gospel of “individualism” in business conjoined
with suppression of individuality in thought and speech. One cannot imagine a bitterer comment on any professed individualism than that it subordinates the only creative individuality – that of the mind – to the maintenance of a regime which gives the few an opportunity for being shrewd in the management of monetary business…”

Anyway, let’s face it, as soon as the common people start making a fuss with their protesting and civil disobedience, governments of all persuasions quickly become jackboot totalitarian.

An example of what toiletboss cites:

…They are fine with offensive notions of Manifest Destiny & see whatever questionable acts wrought by themselves, covertly (often) or overtly (less often), as justifiable means to their ends. Again, much like leftists…

http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/if-you-like-sarah-palin-youll-absolutely-love-cory-bernardi/390/

A few thoughts of mine:

Are company shareholders acting individually or collectively?

What about working collectivist alternatives? As in the Netherlands [paraphrased from link below] where workers participate in appointing the board, can also veto decisions that will affect them and have their interests upheld in the court. Isn’t that a better society when workers and employer/board are not adversaries, they make decisions for the good of all stakeholders?

http://distilledmagazine.com/individualism-is-bad-for-business/

In the area of economic organization, individualism is bad for business. It’s time to embrace collectivist alternatives…

Human rights, equality and equity don’t rate with libertarians and privatised industry, their definition of a civil society appears to be the state existing only to protect and subsidise private property. Nothing should protect society from their greed and exploitation.

The Nielson poll is leaked on Twitter

ALP is 30% primary

An absolute fucking disaster for PM lying grub

Love it .

Conservatives want to re-write history so that they are not seen in such a bad light by decent people. All those right wing think tanks and ‘friendly’ media assisting to churn out conservatist ‘revised’ history. It’s the modern right wing propaganda machine. The nazi’s did it, tony abbott does it now with the help of the IPA and all those well funded organisations that cory bernardi operates behind. Astroturfing, social media trolling, they are seriously propagandising. They’ve even taken over the ABC.

You only have to view the principles and politics of conservatism to see how closely they align with nazi-ism.

Hitler Is Not A Liberal Despite Conservative Attempts To Rewrite History

…Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named “National Socialist.” But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship — it can only be democratic. Hitler’s other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist…

The Conservative Fantasy History of Civil Rights

…They need to try something different, anyway. The pseudo-historical attempt to attach conservatism to the civil rights movement is just silly. Here’s another idea: Why not get behind the next civil rights idea (gay marriage) now? It would save future generations of conservative apparatchiks from writing tendentious essays insisting the Republican Party was always for it…

But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production.

Bull…….shit!!!!

Because socialism in the advocated sense is entirely different from the Socialism described above. “Worker ownership” must mean not just economic ownership but true ownership, that sense of the “operation” belonging to oneself. That can’t happen in a centralised environment. The “ownership” is too diluted to count.

Socialism can and has worked in fact. But that Socialism is an Agrarian type Socialism. And even then there was a king or baron who would ride by from time to time collecting their taxes.

If I were King of Australia for a day I would strip the vast majority of the taxing powers and government responsibilities from the Feds and grant it back to local governments. The more local the administration, the more responsible the elected and appointed to their more immediate constituents. They’d have to be because they’d see them in the street when they went to buy bread. Really the Feds should only be looking after defence, national infrastructure, and not much else.

Gillard, Thomson, Howes, Shorten, Ludwig, the list is a mile long of reasons why Socialism in the centralised sense can’t work. They get away with that sht because they are too far removed from their constituency. It becomes no different, worse in fact, to the Capitalism it purports to improve upon. At least Capitalism allows for political, if not economic, freedom.Centralised Socialism can’t exist alongside freedom, and it is a waste of time without it, a disaster in fact.

Olivia Marree was born into this Sanctimonious household on 4 Feb. My first words to her were that her virginity was a gift etc etc.

“If I were King of Australia for a day I would strip the vast majority of the taxing powers and government responsibilities from the Feds and grant it back to local governments.”

Snacty for King errr, President ! (?)

* Congrats to the breeders. 🙂

The “ownership” is too diluted to count.

I can’t see that, the ownership wouldn’t be as diluted as the shareholders in a corporation.

The ‘ownership’ is equal, nobody having more than any other so how can equality mean diluted?

If I were King of Australia for a day I would strip the vast majority of the taxing powers and government responsibilities from the Feds and grant it back to local governments. The more local the administration, the more responsible the elected and appointed to their more immediate constituents.

You’ve just described my idea of what a working ‘true’ communist system could be like.

I want to see the people rule themselves via democratically elected localities or ‘councils’ [whatever people want to call them] from their own community, it would be a decentralised and worker owned society, everyone has equal value, equal input into decisions made and it would be a stateless society, no government.

Socialism is not communism and communism is a political, not an economic system. Many get confused probably because of the modern ‘politics of fear’ where any type of socialism is described as communism. Where progressives are smeared as commies [2td/walrus style].

Russia, China and other countries labelled as ‘communist’ have never had true communism, the workers have never had control of the means of production.

Capitalism is very much the centralised economic system, the economic rationalists decreeing that it is cheaper and more efficient to have a centralised command or head office, with its own upper class level of managers/CEOs/boards that are hugely overpaid and underworked.

How can people fool themselves into thinking that being ‘wage slaves’ for the super wealthy ‘owner class’ gives them some kind of personal freedom? They have the freedom of slavery, bought and sold by the wealthy who use their labour to further enrich themselves. Everybody competing against each other for the scraps thrown by the wealthy owner class who in turn own and control supposedly ‘democratic’ governments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Marxist_Communism

[wiki] “Pure communism” is a term sometimes used to refer to the stage in history after socialism, although just as many communists use simply the term “communism” to refer to that stage; the term is synonymous with “Full communism”. The classless, stateless society that is meant to characterise this communism is one where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made in the best interests of the whole of society—a sort of ‘of, by, and for the working class’, rather than a rich class controlling the wealth and everyone else working for them on a wage basis. In this communism the interests of every member of society is given equal weight to the next, in the practical decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life…

“The “ownership” is too diluted to count.

I can’t see that, the ownership wouldn’t be as diluted as the shareholders in a corporation.”

I thought the same when I read that. It is more of a vibe felt by snacty than a statement of fact.

“Australian voters seem to understand this – they elect the Libs to sort the economy, and then when that is in shape they elect Labor to share the wealth a bit. When Labor has racked up enough debt, they bring back the Libs to sort the economy again.”

That theory has been around since my Pol Sci days in ’70s and has legs because of the political cycle. More to the point is ownership of the middle ground…Keating was referred to as the best Liberal PM since Menzies a case in point. Problem for todays incumbent is that the middle ground shifted from under her feet quite quickly…

‘They introduced some market economy principles and about 300 million people were lifted out of abject poverty.’

Its been the greatest economic revolution in history.

Essentially leftists are parasites precisely because they don’t have a clue how to actually generate the wealth they would so wantonly redistribute

Course they do, who do you think is producing the wealth now? Whose labour is driving the productivity and profits that the wealthy capitalists steal for themselves?

They have more than a clue, they just don’t have the power to get rid of the current system, as soon as it looks like workers will gain power and will organise in their own interests, the wealthy capitalists demand the governments they control to ‘do something’ to oppress and suppress any uprising of the worker class.

Think about it how unfair is a system that makes it illegal for any worker of free will to withold their own labour if they choose? What ‘fair’ system makes it illegal for people to protest in the streets [unless under their ‘special’ rules of oppression] and utilises state forces in armed force against its own citizens?

Nice work James.

BTW … who in the 21st Century give a flying fuck about socialism …

That’s it TB. I just want change and a fairer, more inclusive society. I get tired of the ‘commie’ accusations every time we talk about making a different and better system. As soon as we talked of climate change and carbon pricing, the powerful wealthy all started screaming and ranting hysterically about ‘communism’ and ‘income redistribution’ rather than something we should be doing as harm minimisation for the planet upon which all humans depend for survival. The secret organisations lying and propagandising about the science because profits must come before people. The old wealthy white men in control of the world want it all shut down, it’s become another ‘the commies are coming’ moment.

Just tonight I’ve seen geert wilders on the telly spruiking his hatred of islam as if we’re all going to be taken over by ordinary muslims. Why isn’t someone on prime time telly spruiking to get rid of all organised religion? It is religion that is the problem, not just one of their branches. I can’t believe we fund the hate and divide that is religion.

What was taxpayer funding for banks after the GFC, if it wasn’t wealth redistribution from the bottom up? It seems that is acceptable anytime [its capitalism in a nutshell isn’t it], just don’t ask for any from the top down!

I think the whole left vs right thing is irrelevant too.

Just tonight I’ve seen geert wilders on the telly spruiking his hatred of islam as if we’re all going to be taken over by ordinary muslims. Why isn’t someone on prime time telly spruiking to get rid of all organised religion?

They usually are. In fact, going by my Twitter feed, the Micks are getting it again tonight. It just happens so often that it’s not news. What makes Wilders newsworthy is that he has the stones to stick it to the Mussies, and for that he has to walk around with a small army.

You know it’s funny, moving from North Melbourne out to the burbs. The local mall here is chock full of crooks. Yet these type of crooks don’t frighten me anything like the crooks did in North Melbourne. Really they’re quite polite.

ITS ON AGAIN!

‘Mr Rudd said at the weekend that talk of another challenge should be put in “cryogenic storage”.

‘But it was a term his backers yesterday claimed was a subtle message that he could be unfrozen and resurrected.

‘They declared a challenge was now a “fait accompli”, following poll numbers that rivalled the catastrophic wipe-out of NSW Labor in 2011.

“The timing will now take care of itself. People will be begging us to do something,” one key Rudd backer said.’

Daily Terror

‘Modern Labor seems to have lost touch with the mainstream and fallen under the spell of the inner-city green Left. Young ALP staffers are aligned more with the ideology of the Greens than Labor, and tend to sneer at the suburban lifestyle and material aspirations of traditional Labor voters.’

Oz editorial…

tru dat

“Just tonight I’ve seen geert wilders on the telly spruiking his hatred of islam as if we’re all going to be taken over by ordinary muslims.”

If you actually take the time to listen to him his central message is that Islam is not just a religion but also a form of government and justice and an economic/financial (Islamic finance anyone) system as well.

He does not hate all muslims all he is trying to point out is that Islam is so all encompassing of a society that many parts of it are totally and utterly at odds with Western Democracies be they at the moment Right Wing or Left Wing democracies.

The problem as he ses it in Holland is that there are currently those muslims who just want to attach themselves to the religious armand pray and go to the mosque but there are many who are on a crusade to convert Holland to all encompassing Islam.

Catholicism used to be the same. Islam being a much younger brand of religion just like a teenager hasn’t gotten over itself yet.

“You sound as if you didn’t know that?”

You should direct that comment to AO

Winston believed Julia was affiliated with the Thought Police.

‘But in the minds of the wealthy and their snot nose grovellers, they must receive a financial reward to stop polluting the earth.’

sigh …. we have a room out the back for that sort of talk.

You are entitled to your opinion TB.

Its the left who want to take away our freedoms, restrict what we think, not the right.

“………..The hypocrisy demonstrated by religionists is astoundingly stupid … you don’t love my god so you are bad … ”

Why don’t you answer your comment and what is different to what Gilders is saying ?

Then I might address the 2000 “look over there’s ” you planted after that

So are the greens and alp not preferencing each other now.

LOL

Hazard a guess that our lying grub of a PM had arranged the “breakup” weeks ago.

It serves each party to be seperate again

Its staged .

Tom of Melbourne PERMALINK
February 19, 2013 9:54 pm
You seem a little grumpy this evening TB.

As an observe what’s the difference between today and any other.

He seems to be in a constant state of constipation.

Even if I do point out your errors you will just pivot on to another lunatic proposition.

Pointing out? You are dissembling all over the place SB. Not much focus but I don’t think you intend any, more of a whirling dervish of biased, bilious distortion and confabulation. I’ll give a 6/10 for creativity!

…Looks like the fascists are out in force. Hello leftists, goodbye free speech. Fucking brownshirt thugs…

….Maybe the point I was making had more to do with the behaviour of the protesters than whether they are actually members of a Nazi militia…

What is that about reaping what you sow?

Such a hypocrite, complaining about the behaviour of others who simply exercise their right to free speech and protest at some hatemongering bigots holed up in their gestapo HQ, proudly seig heiling each other. Is it mandatory for all supporters to get their hair bleached aryan white like herr wilders? Of course their behaviour is sooo much worse than what is going on inside, the cultivation and promotion of breivik-think.

As if there’s not already enough ignorant racism in this country. Anyway, isn’t that the reaction you would expect? Your freedom to speak hate vs others freedom to condemn your hate speech?

Besides, the free speech argument doesn’t wash. The likes of freedom fighters like bolt, hadley, bernardi, jones and wilders etc only want the freedom to incite hatred, ridicule and violence against aboriginals, muslims and anybody else they might detest due to political and/or religious ideology.

In bolt’s case the judge found “erroneous facts, distortions of the truth and inflammatory and provocative language” that’s what got him, nothing to do with right to speak, it’s just that his free speech was full of baseless lies designed to embarrass and provoke people simply because of their race.

It’s not free speech you keyboard freedom fighters are concerned about, it’s that you can’t lie, distort, smear, abuse and vilify people based on race. And as we all know, if you lot can’t make shit up, you’ve got nothing.

Barnaby Joyce to Tony Burke on the dam fiasco.

‘You see, Tony, the common word in your answer is dam, and if you don’t have a dam you definitely can’t mitigate a flood, you definitely can’t generate hydroelectricity and you definitely can’t store water for agricultural and urban use.

‘The reality is that the Labor Party are today sitting back thinking to themselves, “That’s a good idea, why didn’t we think of that?”

“No-one has sympathised with the “mob” …” – TB

Really ????????????????????

“……..Such a hypocrite, complaining about the behaviour of others who simply exercise their right to free speech and protest at some hatemongering bigots holed up in their gestapo HQ, proudly seig heiling each other…………..” – KL

I’d say that’s a Defence of a Mob plus a complete misrepresentation another group of people trying to listen to someone exercising freedom of speech

I’d say that’s a Defence of a Mob plus a complete misrepresentation another group of people trying to listen to someone exercising freedom of speech

yep, and for the record, I don’t condemn it.
I have long had the belief that the call for non-violence only protects those who want to control and suppress any legitimate protest. These people have made their ‘call to arms’
to the white supremacists. Dunno why it bothers warmongers who would happily rush into war over any lie or perceived threat. Isn’t this ‘anti-islam’ just another form of warfare with the warriors of the right deciding they need to protect all that is white & neocolonial by drumming up fear and inciting hate?

If they want to incite hatred and violence under the guise of ‘free speech’ then they have to accept the consequences of their own actions.

Don’t pretend it’s a ‘free speech issue. Funny how the only people who want to spread hatred and fear and attack others’ rights to live free from abuse and vilification are those on the right.

You all know that ‘freedom of speech’ is not an unqualified right don’t you? Andrew Bolt found that out.

Wonder how well it would go down if geert wilders, cory bernardi and co. substituted the word jew or aussie for muslim?

You also know that there is not a protected right to free speech in australia don’t you? We don’t have a bill of rights here. Somehow the same freedom fighting warriors who proclaim their so-called ‘right’ to free speech, holding it up like a shield when confronted, never want a bill of rights, do they?

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=14658

…Without a Bill of Rights, free speech is not a right in Australia. It is implied in the Australian Constitution but laws determine speech only to be free if it does not incite, harm or offend. According to the Australian Immigration Department,the intention of free speech must be constructive and not to do harm. There are laws against saying or writing things to incite hatred against others because of their culture, ethnicity or background…

…Radio Free Australia, the self-proclaimed “voice of white revolution in Australia”, has announced that it “encourage[s] you in the strongest possible terms…” to attend. With the locations only made available to ticket holders, the day before Wilders speeches, the broadcast further claims this will “reduce the amount of time that Islamic terrorists will have to organise counter-demonstrations and generally cause trouble.” It further incites “it is quite likely” there will be “Islamic violence”. “We would encourage all patriots to exercise their legal right of self-defence if any ragheads…use violence”.

Nice. Your defence of these bigoted and prejudiced people does you no credit.

Guess it’s really good timing, wonder if cory thought that up all by himself. Just suits the right wing agenda very handily doesn’t it, to have a really divisive racial issue on the front page in an election year? Might get the same ‘stop the boats’ crowd fired up eh? Bit like Howard’s election winning ‘children overboard’.

Just another coalition stunt. There will be many more before election day.

Have a look:

‘anti-islamic patriotic society’ The Q Society [there’s plenty of industry money flowing into the cory bernardi/ liberal/ IPA astroturfing & propaganda machinery isn’t there?]

http://www.qsociety.org.au/

and a listen:

http://kiwi6.com/file/59c4x9861i

I suppose you think that Theo van Gogh deserved what he got as well. That is certainly the logical conclusion of your argument.

I suppose you think the anders breivik victims, just children and the ‘collateral damage’ of innocent iraqi and afghanistan citizens deserved what they all got?

That is certainly the logical conclusion of your argument.

As a shareholder I find this to be an outrage

BHP Billiton paid $77M in Mining Tax out of the gross total of $126M

They clearly need new tax accountants

I might put my hand up

LOL

So, specifically, Kittylitter, what is it about what Wilders says that you object to so vehemently? A supporting quote would be handy.

I’m just interested in where you draw the line, at what stage would you actually be prepared to condemn violence? Murder? A severe beating?

I do condemn violence, I condemn any unprovoked, unjustified assault on anyone. However if I am peacefully minding my own business, causing no harm or offence and “someone comes along and kicks my dog sleeping on the porch”, I am going to retaliate [analogy given by US citizens after 9/11]
In your case the aggressor is deliberately provoking, looking for a fight, so cannot legitimately complain when it comes their way. I’m sure that given sufficient provocation, I could even be roused to violence as could most people.

…Of a man who made a film critical of violence against women in muslim countries. Or do you think he should have just shut up about that issue out of deference to muslim sensibilities?…

There is plenty of violence against women in our sexist western culture as well, why single out muslims? The violence against all women should be highlighted and addressed. It’s an issue across all cultures. Don’t point the finger at one group or race and be wilfully blind to the violence perpetrated in our own homes and streets, or does that offend western whitey male sensibilities? Do I really need to mention recent events in india, sth africa and here in oz to remind you? Maybe it wouldn’t appear so hypocritical if our own society didn’t have a big problem with violence towards women. Tony Abbott’s own student days were full of sexist behaviour, violence, intimidation and thuggery. It’s a universal male thing, not just muslims.

This reminds me of why, at uni, I walked away from the hard left. I didn’t want to be associated with their intolerance of different opinions and their casual indifference to perpetrating violence on people they disagreed with.

There’s a huge difference between inflammatory, provocative, prejudiced and biased “opinion” and language. There is plenty of freedom for a civil discourse where debate is conducted in a respectful and civilised manner, you can still get your point across. You want a cowards freedom to provoke, offend, abuse and lie about others yet hypocritically demanding self restraint or an imposed ‘jackbooting’ from the state enforcers upon those deliberately provoked.

Do you really think words like white revolution, towelheads, filthy vermin, raghead camel fucking islamic filth who have no place in a civil society, evil bastards that they are etc are words of civil public discourse, a ‘lecture’ ? This is coming from your liberal party although the phony abbott, who like the rest of his mafia will pretend he’s got nothing to do with it hence the need for all the front groups with secret funding and membership.

Have an open mind and come along the promo says! What a joke, there would be no open mind on display.

I read somewhere today that a “zealot” is someone who despite all the evidence to the contrary will continue to rant on about their point of view regardless.

Like climate change deniers? Who regardless of their own dedicated threads will continue to foul every thread with their denier rants, even when no-one is the slightest bit interested in their point of view.

I read somewhere today that a “zealot” is someone who despite all the evidence to the contrary will continue to rant on about their point of view regardless

But yomm said he ‘wasn’t’ a zealot about workchoices. One wonders why he harped on about it so much then?

‘Like climate change deniers? Who regardless of their own dedicated threads will continue to foul every thread with their denier rants, even when no-one is the slightest bit interested in their point of view.’

But its alright for the warmista/feminista to talk about carbon pollution on other threads without criticism.

You’re definitely a green shirt.

Apparently, this thread is about ‘confidence’

Wonder how widely this will be reported in order to build that?

@DavidEPrimrose See here http://t.co/1iJVzyki—
Mr Denmore (@MrDenmore) February 20, 2013

They were just a vile violent rabble looking for a fight. And yet you can’t condemn them.

You seem to have a very ‘one eyed’ slant to the event and appear to be trying to minimise the motivations of your ‘side’. What about when both groups are harbouring a ‘vile violent rabble looking for a fight’?

What part of “it takes two to tango, don’t you understand?

“urging white supremacists to gather at Wilders addresses, held at undisclosed locations, ready “for trouble and a no-holds barred fight”…
…“it is quite likely” there will be “Islamic violence”. “We would encourage all patriots to exercise their legal right of self-defence if any ragheads…use violence”…

If abbott’s mob wanted wilders here to deliver a simple little lecture, why all the publicity? why not have him slip into the country unannounced and go about his business without all the publicity and fanfare?

If it’s all so nice and decent, why doesn’t abbott talk him up and defend the visit organised by his mob without hiding behind fronts with undisclosed membership/funding? So typical of the right wing haters.

Besides, it’s all going gangbusters for you isn’t it, dunno why you’re whinging – this is exactly the outcome the coalition has striven to achieve, it’s a huge success, their ‘tampa’ moment has arrived, just as planned. Watch for the usual saturation media coverage – tick! racial divide -tick, angry protests – tick, right wing shock jock outrage – tick, muslim bashing – tick, white fear and ignorant prejudice – tick.

Oh well, at least they are leaving the aborigines alone!

“stop the stunts”

Enter the australian with yet another pro abbott puff piece [not paywalled, because they want this propaganda to be seen]

Bernardi tests Abbott’s patience by backing Dutch MP Geert Wilders:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/bernardi-tests-abbotts-patience-by-backing-dutch-mp-geert-wilders/story-fn59niix-1226582135815

Except the article does not mention a word of criticism or impatience from abbott toward bernardil. They are not mentioned in the same sentence together.

Abbott gets to say wilders is ‘substantially’ wrong on islam and then appears all muslim loving, mr nice-guy. Warm & fuzzies all round. No, nothing to do with abbott all this mussie bashing.

What can I say, exactly as planned eh?

“stop the stunts”

Hitler’s time in prison was not wasted, by the time he got out he was no longer the Bavarian clown that went in.

Exactly !

LOL

So…..in short……those Catholics are a bunch of sexist, misogynist, kiddie rootin’ scum and the fuckin’ Jews are an intolerant bunch who want to control the world but the Muslims are ok. They’re not as enlightened as us atheists, but they’re ok.

Who said that?

Certainly not me. You do like to misrepresent people don’t you james? More bolt-ing.

For the record, I don’t take issue with the hate hang-outs, let them spruik as much as they like, just don’t get outraged when others exercise their right to protest at the racism and bigotry.

Anyway, abbott says we don’t have the problem that wilders is trying to drum up fear about, we’ve only got good aussie mossie citizens here, so no need to re-organise the national front. Guess he thinks its a win/win stunt for votes, get the hansonites vote and might also pick up a few from some gullible muslims who think he’s actually defending rather than manipulating them. Wow, what an expensive exercise, there’s some big mining $ flowing their way!

GST is not a volatile tax in this context.

GST is not a volatile tax in this context.

Tell it to the states

The states wouldn’t say it is either. Not comparable to the Mining Tax. But you already know that. You’re just muddying otherwise clear waters. The Mining Tax (and especially the expenditure attached to it) is a diabolical fuck up.

“As for ‘recurrent’ spending, that is always taken a year at a time.”

What a load of Crap

Its in the Forward Estimates

That’s your opinion, not a fact. The facts are, it is doing what it is supposed to be doing, not taxing companies when they are struggling.

That’s fine. Then put the proceeds to a Future Fund, where the necessity for access to the cash can be smoothed out over a longer period. Instead they attached immediate expenditure to it. It’s a diabolical fuck up. They know it. Everyone knows it. Except perhaps for you.

And no, it isn’t muddying the waters. States need to budget on expected returns. But they don’t know exactly what they are getting in GST each year, it is a projection. And it can fall dramatically.

Of course it’s muddying the waters. On that basis every tax is volatile. It’s the specific nature of the expenditure attached to the Mining Tax as compared to the uncertain nature of its revenue that puts this tax in its own special class of fuck up. Much like the Carbon Tax really. A whole bunch of expenditure attached to a tax that when it becomes a “price” will drop to almost nothing.

The mining companies are “struggling?” 😯

Yea, good call reb

Not making fucking huge profits might have been a better way of putting it.

I can just see the headlines if they had been taxed an extra $2billion after just recording their first ever loss (Rio I think it was)

People really appear to forget it is a tax on ‘Super’ profits. If they aint making them, they aint being taxed on them. In other words, it’s doing it’s job.

The GST is variable in the same way as Company Tax is and Income Tax and Capital Gains Taxes.

As Sancty said the MRRT has a pedestal by itself in the “ALP Museum of Fiscal Fuckups”

GST takes……..hardly “volatile” as compared to the Mining Tax.

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview201213/GSTPool

So it’s true, TomR is Craig Emerson. Certainly the intellect matches.

“So it’s true, TomR is Craig Emerson.”

Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark Sancty…………don’t do it to me

I saw Emerson jogging around near Sydney’s Circular Quay at 8am a few weeks back.

And I was in my 4WD……………………………….I could have lost control and mounted the footpath…………

…………but then that would spare us from the comedy act that TomR puts on each day.

…………but then that would spare us from the comedy act that TomR puts on each day.

Need I say it .. 2008 😆

“Need I say it .. 2008”

If you actually had any comprehension skills TomR you’d see that 2007 and 2008 were highlighted by me (as stated at the time) because they represented truly massive falls in emissions compared to the pathetic……….. what ?…… six tenths of one percent you hailed as some sort of link.

So for you

Comprehension = Fail

Comedy=Gold Star

Oh…………..is 7:30am OK

Sharp

I’d hate to miss you.

LOL

‘Comedy=Gold Star’

TomR is amusing at times, but he really needs the help of a professional straight man.

Comprehension = Fail

Well, why did you use it then to support what hunt had claimed, as that was not what he had claimed at all.

Looks like he’s actually using Combet’s own Climate Department website as it shows the claim of a Carbon Tax link for any fall as just bullshit when compared to previous years.

https://thedailytrash.wordpress.com/2013/02/18/new-poll-spells-certain-election-annihilation-for-julia-giddard/#comment-16462

https://thedailytrash.wordpress.com/2013/02/18/new-poll-spells-certain-election-annihilation-for-julia-giddard/#comment-16468

So don’t talk to me about comprehension fail. You tried to use an (unlinked) graph which you later highlight as being the 2008 one to support hunts claim of there being no drop in emissions since the introduction of the Carbon Price.

And then today you jump on the snacty bandwagon of the volatility of the GST not being equivalent to the Mining Tax, even though I never claimed them to be equivalent, just an example of a volatile tax (which it obviously is)

Talk about comprehension fail, you don’t even know what your writing, let alone others. 😯

2008 😆

“The intertemporal accounting manipulations will, perhaps, catch up with their rearrangers eventually;”

No they wont………..Because you’ll never get control of state royalties

i.e. the States will get to the “Super Profit” first

i.e. the States will get to the “Super Profit” first

That’s still to be determined yet in the high court from my understanding.

I used Combet’s own website to expose your BS about the Carbon Tax being responsible for the Emissions drop when its clear many factors affect emissions.

Well, why did you use it then to support what hunt had claimed, as that was not what he had claimed at all.

you’d rather wait for the verdict

Silly me 😯

(Why bother with adversarial systems, even multiple-stakeholder systems with dynamic, plural powers and influences and perspectives, when unilateral edicts and one-sided outcomes naturally are to be preferred: kangaroo courts/lynch mobs; one-party politics/states;unassailable congruences of hypotheses and conclusions; a happy, certain place where everythings ‘just are’…until complexity/reality/emergence/specificity impinge (generally to be forgotten/ignored). Eg, why are there court cases and verdicts? Are such clues that processes, contexts, and contests betwixt, between and among entities exist? What do the verities of definitive findings by the FWA being civilly tested, or being adjourned,and/or criminal ‘cases’ on largely ‘same matters’ presuppose about the finality(ies) of stuffs, and judgements about theose stuffs aforehand? Hands up anyone who accurately predicted that Craig would be charged with a count of embezzling ice-cream by the Victorian constabulary; did he, in fact, do that; with what significance; with what penalty, if any?)

you wont concede to anything

2008 😆

Looks like he’s actually using Combet’s own Climate Department website as it shows the claim of a Carbon Tax link for any fall as just bullshit when compared to previous years.

https://thedailytrash.wordpress.com/2013/02/18/new-poll-spells-certain-election-annihilation-for-julia-giddard/#comment-16462

Oh

And while you are fetching stuff TomR please answer the question that you always refuse to answer.

How are you going to pay for the recurent spending once the carbon tax morphs into a market price ETS.

Keeping in mind the current price is $23 pt but the market price is likely to be $6

Where will the extra revenue come from. So far all you have offered is slashing the compensation programs which unless you are a complete idiot will just leave pensioners etc with a slashed pension but high electricity costs.

So when do you intend answering that question.

Or are you going to run away for a few days …………………….again !

How are you going to pay for the recurent spending once the carbon tax morphs into a market price ETS.

I’m not paying for it, and the answer was addressed above.

Sorry, forgot about your short term memory loss thing 😉

😯

Only half right grodo

There will be no Carbon Tax, but there currently is, and will be (no matter what abbott says (I note he hasn’t written it down) an ETS. 😉

When did Greg Hunt say there had been no drop in emissions anyway?

On QandA the other night

Meanwhile Gillards got Baillieu in her sites big time

Click to access 210213_baillieuletter.pdf

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-21/cut-out-the-politics-on-health-gillard/4532178

“And perhaps 2d, for a moment anyway”

So TomR what exactly is wrong with Direct Action since your lying grub of a PM practices it via the $10B Clean Energy Fund ?

ASX down 2.3% at the close and that deals me into a world of pain today. That’s a big “correction”

Find me an open window

TONY JONES: By the way, climate change for science classes?

GREG HUNT: Of course.

TONY JONES: Yep. Okay. Fine. Cindy Pan?

GREG HUNT: That was a sort of a passingly cheap shot, Tony.

‘Greg hunt couldn’t stop at one lie though’

Climate Change will continue being discussed in science classes, that’s an indisputable fact.

And China isn’t looking at going the whole hog on a tax.

“So 2d, are ready to admit that emissions (from power production) have fallen since the introduction of the carbon price, and that hunt is FOS and lied on national television?

I mean, that was my claim,”

Looks like you are the one caught out lying. Perhaps you’d like to quote him in full

“…………You are ultimately a rational person, electricity is an essential service, therefore it’s barely affected in its demand by price rises. What does that mean? It means that we go from 560 million tonnes of emissions in Australia in 2010 to 637 million tonnes. So the big thing about the carbon tax is it doesn’t actually reduce emissions. Our emissions go up, not down. ”

Just as I have said. You cannot link the Carbon Tax directly to a drop in emissions. Any number of factors can be responsible AS THEY WERE IN much larger numbers in 2007 and 2008.

FFS you cant even produce the tonnages

Oh, THAT. TomR, you really need to look further. Hunt was referencing the ALP’s projections as to emissions. Not actual emissions over the last 6 months.

“As of today our home has LED light globes and tubes……”

Actually I bought a solar LED spot light from Bunnings a few months ago (not cheap at $90) as I didn’t want to spend bigger $$$$ on a sparky to connect up what is essentially a lower backgarden light (not used much at night)

Its fantastically bright with something like 80 tiny LEDs making it up.

Hunt was referencing the ALP’s projections as to emissions.

And presenting it as what is actually occuring, even though that isn’t the case.

So the big thing about the carbon tax is it doesn’t actually reduce emissions. Our emissions go up, not down

Now, he didn’t say this was a projection, he said this was the outcome.

You cannot link the Carbon Tax directly to a drop in emissions

I don’t have to, because his statement is clear, and he said it twice

What is actually going to reduce emissions and our debate in Australia and this is where I would absolutely disagree with Lawrence, is about the fact that our emissions go up, not down, under the carbon tax.

Not much deceptive there, he is very clear about what he is trying to say. “the fact that our emissions go up, not down, under the carbon tax.”

Stoopid me for not seeing it as well

Finally, sense 🙂

The working poor will cast their vote against middle class welfare, when Mr Abbott points out the inequality in our system.

‘I reckon it’ll be a tough decision’

Indeed, a robust election is coming.

‘Instead, we are stuck with zombie-media trying to peddle the zombie-party into power, and is basically stuffing the `whole-point` of so-called democracy.’

There is no unified conspiracy, Fairfax leans to the left and Murdoch to the right. Both stables chase after stories on political corruption and they are good at it.

Our democracy is safe.

The bourgeoisie deserve what they have achieved throughout their lives and their success is a big plus for the free enterprise system. It really works.

So 730. You made the claim.

The accounts of BHPB are very simple if you care to look at them. They even break things down by geographic segments for you.

Where did they not pay tax or the correct rate ?

And you can easily get the accounts online.

And don’t give me the crap that foreigners get the dividends. Just look at the dividend yield . It pathetic at about 4%. NAB pays better with no risk.

Actually have a look at Origin Energy and the percent they pay in tax.

You might discover something.

That being……..

You are full of shit as usual

I’ll wait here for you to post where you pay sales tax in oZthese days ?

Tell me so I can report them to the ATO.

Actually you might bring up Starbucks .

Middle class welfare up for review and Don is right about the young unemployed.

‘BUSINESS community elder Don Argus has warned that the growth in politically popular welfare spending is unsustainable and youth unemployment is one of the greatest economic challenges confronting Australia.

‘In a speech to be given in Melbourne today and published exclusively in The Weekend Australian, the former BHP Billiton chairman and National Australia Bank chief executive calls for a national discussion about welfare spending, warning that the pension and health costs of an ageing population will add to the structural pressure on the federal budget.’

Annabel Hepworth in the Oz

We have corruption in all political systems, its human nature

Glib and meaningless BS statements like that anger me. Just accept a corrupted system, don’t strive for better??

The system is meant to catch and jail the corruption aspect of ‘human nature’

In China they shoot corrupt officials in the back of the head, kneeling side by side in front of an open ditch.

Australians don’t take it so seriously, Thompson will probably get a six months good behaviour bond.

China offers the best example of what the free market can create, its the greatest economic revolution in history.

The first stage is coming to an end and over the next decade the second stage of developing a large middle class will be accomplished. Here is a glimpse of how this is shaping up.

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2013-02/23/content_16250592.htm

By 2020 its possible the Chinese might have a moon colony and a joint venture with the US on sending people to Mars. Its what powerful nations do when they stop fighting each other.

Their justice system leaves a lot to be desired, but hopefully over time that will change for the better. There is no sign that China will become a liberal democracy anytime soon.

Sorry eg I could not get here by lunchtime.

730 has subtly changed the subject now from tax havens to transfer pricing within a restaurant/service industry and has now switched from tax havens to transfer pricing.

That’s a lot different to a physical export industry.

As I said 730 you are full of it.

Have you checked the BHPBilliton AR yet ?

Or RIO ……………….. or Origin….?

You made the claim and now you own the claim so now prove it.

Still waiting for you to tip me off about who is charging you sales tax by the way ?

LOL

‘As I said 730 you are full of it.’

Economics is not his strength…. conspiracy theories involving the media is more his style.

‘…..conspiracy theories involving carbon-dioxide is more his style.’

Its not an organised conspiracy, this verbal abuse of a harmless trace gas, but that’s another story.

The Chinese are building major infrastructure in the US and this is only the beginning of their close association.

http://rt.com/usa/infrastructure-chinese-us-china-621/

———–

‘the big-oil, big-coal shill.’

joker

Monckton was in town on Friday night for a talk on his favourite subject. It was held at the RSL club and the police station is over the road, so the advocates for the other side didn’t make an appearance.

Interestingly a DLP wannabe organised it… this is novel. I hasten to add that this town is very Catholic and maybe they think the PMs earlier association with Communists has tainted her. Don’t know.

The DLP rejoining the fray is worth watching. There are strong Labor supporters who have had enough, but cannot bring themselves to vote for the other side.

Ok 730 based on the Sales Tax answer I can now rest easily with something about “molecules” of detail being incorrect.

So you can’t detail personal experience with everything you claim is a personal experience.

Ok

IN NSW the honeymoon is never ending thanks to Obeid et al.

Click to access 593775-130225-nsw-newspoll.pdf

🙂

Catholicism is more sinister, pervasive and prevalent than any threat of communism.

We should be very scared and worried about the global threat of catholicism!

And they had only one thing on their mind …. world revolution and how to pull it off. Political animals in search of reason to be.

‘We should be very scared and worried about the global threat of catholicism!’

We are safe in Australia, the people are pretty much a godless lot, except for the new immigrants from the Middle East who still worship the deity.

Catholics may show their face locally with support for the DLP candidate …. have to wait and see. Chifley would have been amused.

As you know Chifley was a Catholic and when he married a Presbyterian in her church, he was severely ostracised by some sections. When he went to Sunday mass he was forced to stand at the back of the church.

Later when he became PM he would sit in the park over the road and passes by would join him to discuss stuff.

The local people have strong memories of this great leader.

‘what a load of old bollocks …’

One of us is wrong, but I’ll leave that for my colleagues to decide.

Popcorn … anyone for popcorn?

’cause I can assure you – it makes no difference who’s running the show … welfare is for the needy …’

Something should be done about youth unemployment. If they are fit then they should be sent to the mines, paid a lot of money and taken off the public purse.

Abbott might be keen on this idea.

LOL @ ToM

Newspoll out tonight.

I reckon it won’t be as bad as Galaxy

It seems to me that the media report that Gillard is dishonest and incompetent. That seems consistent with the facts.

Good point TB. The leader represents the direction of the party, that’s why there is a focus on leadership.

Turnbull represents a progressive approach to a range of social issues that are currently ignored as both leaders appeal to rednecks.

The only chance Turnbull has is Rudd returning. The bounce in the polls would send the Liberals into a spin. If you like Turnbull, you should back Rudd.

Only problem, ToM … I’ve never really liked, Rudd … I saw him as a means to get rid of John Howard & The Private School Bullies …

Right now Labor need his micromanaging.

Me too, I wasn’t impressed with Rudd initially but at the endof his time, when he got knifed, I was really warming to him, he was pushing for social progression and the MRRT was going to be brought in. When Rudd came back from his break he was going for it all, the right wing trogs of Labor knew that their days of power and control were numbered, that is why the coup against him.

I think he is just the person to take on internal party reform if he gets another run, he’ll have the people’s mandate for it..and the taste for revenge!

I wouldn’t mind seeing it happen actually, seeing the carnage he would wreak upon those powermongers like shorten, conroy, debruyn et al.

‘Revenge on the hacks, is a fine objective in itself.’

Agreed.

And when Rudd becomes leader of the Opposition he will have a free hand to reinvent the party.

Fred Nile, for the win!

I like “Things Bogans Like”

I see there’s a photo of Fifi – just under 247!

It’s very trouble-free to find out any topic on net as compared to books, as I found this
post at this site.