Cardinal George Pell: Painfully and Woefully Inadequate
- Pell blames “the media” for “25 years of hostility”
- Pell accused of a “sociopathic lack of empathy”
Australia’s Top Tim Cardinal George Pell today fronted the Royal Commission’s enquiry into child sex abuse.
Cardinal George Pell told the inquiry he was “fully apologetic and absolutely sorry” for decades of child sex abuse within the Church.
Some members of the packed public gallery wept as Cardinal Pell was forced to answer questions about the Church’s systemic cover-up of cases of rape of children as young as five-years old.
Despite decades of evidence including the account of one abuse survivor who was anally raped as an eight year old ten times and left bleeding and bruised Cardinal Pell appeared unmoved.
At one point, he attempted to position the Catholic Church as “the victim” saying “we’ve had 25 years of intermittent hostility from the press.”
In a perfunctory performance which can only be described as woefully inadequate, Pell defended the Catholic Church’s handling of allegations of abuse, its treatment of victims and defence of sex criminals within its ranks, saying it had “no moral obligation” to pay abuse victims substantial compensation.
Pell said that while there have been some cases of cover-ups, the main problem is that many within the Church did not talk about the problem of child sex abuse because “they were not gossips”.
“I think many persons in the leadership of the Church, I don’t think they knew what a horrendous widespread [issue] we were sitting on,” he said.
“Many of the victims aren’t particularly interested in money. The more important thing is due process, justice, and help with getting on with their lives,” he said.
Cardinal Pell was pressed over the way he personally dealt with cases of abuse, in particularly that of the Foster family, whose two daughters were repeatedly raped by Melbourne priest Kevin O’Donnell from when they were as young as five years old.
One of the daughters died of a medication overdose in 2008 at the age of 26, while the other daughter became a binge drinker and is now mentally and physically disabled.
The father, Anthony Foster, has said that when he met with Cardinal Pell to air his concerns, he showed a “sociopathic lack of empathy” towards the case of his daughters.
Cardinal Pell called the meeting “unfortunate”.
“The Church paid out $100,000 for counselling for the Fosters, and that was money well spent,” Cardinal Pell said.
In the United States, Church abuse victims typically receive about $1 million in compensation but Cardinal Pell says the huge differences between the US and Australia is because America is a society where they pay a much higher rate.
When asked if he thought $75,000 was an appropriate sum for people who had been anally and orally raped by priests when they were children, Cardinal Pell says the Church pays what the Government recommends.
The catholic church made in $16.2 billion in Australia last year alone. Tax free.
theguttertrash.com 
“Some of the victims weren’t entirely blameless,”
Seriously WTF…??!!
Not to mention, he earnestly believes in crap that people made up nearly 2000 years ago & have been opportunistically revising ever since.
That is why he defends an Institution which has covered its tracks & desperately obfuscated to avoid further scrutiny of just one of its ridiculously dogmatic positions…the one that deems that clergymen should somehow pretend that they don’t have a penis.
Moral arbiters, my arse.
There is no defence.
There will be only crickets or red herrings (ie. it’s not just the Catholic Church- true, but no excuse from those claiming divine intent) from adherents, both fervent & fairweather[as most are these days, certainly here; presumably too embarassed to sacrifice their credibility for a cause which has ultimately tarred & feathered itself].
Go, Herr Pell. Go, to Hell [hint: it’s that place in your mind where your conscience should transport you].
That tax free shit just gotta stop!
I’d be interested in convincing counter arguments; do any exist?
TJ, it’s beyond me how otherwise half-intelligent people (like Snacty and ToSY/IPA) can still believe all this bullshit…
I mean really… “a talking snake…?”
Oh do fuck off…. 🙄
Pell is a complex individual who steadfastly believes in the virgin birth.
Pell’s lack of empathy… taking a photo of your daughter with her wrists slashed and Pell says “she looks a bit different.”
the talking snake crowd tend to believe what they believe because it is easy for them to believe they are `special`, `smart`, `are-chosen`, and `will-live-forever` in the next-life/heaven when told this as small children by their parents, and they retain this non-critical mindset for other aspects of their lives
Where’s god when you need it…?
For the record, since I’ve been accused of believeing in talking snakes and therefore, by implication, would be a defender of Pell and the Catholic church. I really shouldn’t need to but I’ll play along and say them anyway, just this once:
● I condemn and abhor sexual abuse of any kind, even more so by persons in positions of trust.
● Victims of sexual abuse are by definition entirely blameless.
● George Pell is trying to minimise the damage, both monetary and reputational, of the Catholic church.
● A talking snake would make a fun pet but one probably does not exist, sadly.
(Apologies to ToM for dipping into his dot supply. I’ll replace them, honest.)
” a talking snake would make a fun pet but one probably does not exist”
BLASPHEMER!
Are you saying the bibles isn’t true….?
Rotting in hell awaits you …..!
So where was god when all those 8 year old kids were being anally and orally raped by middle aged men…?
dog was making sure the gays weren`t getting married
That’s a reasonable question. Someone should have asked Pell.
Aside from believing in the existence of an historical figure by the name of Jesus Christ who was by all accounts a really good bloke (and didn’t shag young boys or girls), I’m not sure I believe anything other than people should be free to believe in any religious deity that gets them through their day without fear of harm or constant ridicule.
And I also believe that those that profess certainty about the absence of a deity of some kind are about as delusional as those who believe absolutely.
“Aside from believing in the existence of an historical figure by the name of Jesus Christ who was by all accounts a really good bloke”
“All accounts..?”” Really…??
Meanwhile in “the real world” he’s just regarded as some sort of fictional Nimbin Character…
Sorry to have to break the news snacty, but no one in “the real world” is buying the jesus freak mentality anymore…
So where was god when all those 8 year old kids were being anally raped by middle aged men?
According to the gospel of Judas there is a passage which suggests Jesus laughed quite often, in a sardonic sort of way.
How about the testimony of the guy who had been anally raped ten times at the age of 8 years old by Catholic priests and left bleeding and bruised and left to feel that it was “his fault”…
Perhaps Snacty can justify all that………..??
Why do I have to justify completely unjustifiable?
Because you usually do (at least when it comes to the CC)
A five year old child not blameless for being raped by an adult who is supposed to protect children?
How can he be unmoved by the suffering of the victims and their families?
This has been a long time coming. I hope Pell and the apologists won’t be able to sweep it under the carpet.
I defend aspects of Catholic teaching and belief, especially their right to believe and to play a role in society.
Just as I would defend any particular group.
It’s just that in “this place” the Micks seem to cop it more than most so I spend more time defending them.
Jane I very much doubt that Pell said a 5yo wasn’t blameless.
I’ll say also that I’ve only watched a brief bit of the evidence on The Age website and the one thing that was patently clear is that Maguire in particular had done absolutely no preparation or research on the subject or on the Church itself. And he should have known to, as he was educated at CBC St Kilda. There is this assumption that Pell is the boss of the Catholic Church in Australia. He’s not. He’s the boss in Sydney.
The Church has dioceses (regions) all over the country. Each has a Bishop and that Bishop reports directly to the Vatican. It’s a structural issue that the Church probably needs to address.
“And I also believe that those that profess certainty about the absence of a deity of some kind are about as delusional as those who believe absolutely.”
Epic Fail!
The last refuge of those clinging to something which life & maturity has taught them is bullshit: and they know it, they just don’t like having the realisation rubbed in their face.
If you really think you’re gonna get a 2nd go around, or somehow transcend your biomass, when you die [and you will die], then you’re missing the point [there isn’t one] of being here [you just are- same as bacteria] to begin with.
“● A talking snake would make a fun pet but one probably does not exist, sadly.”
So true!…except for the ‘probably’.
“Jane I very much doubt that Pell said a 5yo wasn’t blameless.”
He said “some of the victims were not entirely blameless”…
They were children FFS! Being brutally raped by adults…
What part does a 5 year old, an 8 year old or a ten year old play in asking to be anally raped….??
How unsurprisement that you leap to defend Pell and his filthy ilk.
Good to see Tony Abbott condemn the conduct of the catholic church’s handling of victims too….*
*sarcasm alert.
George Pell is a gammy old cunt.
There.
A talking snake would be a nice pet.
But back then they seemed to have all sorts of talking objects that don’t utter a word these days. Wasn’t there a talking bush? How would one or 2 of those go in the Chelsea Garden Show?
And why can’t we have more women folk made from our ribs? It seems less trouble than seeking them out in a South Yarra bar.
“…back then they seemed to have all sorts of talking objects that don’t utter a word these days. ”
Yes, funny that.
I don’t think there’s been too much rising from the dead or improbable multiplication of bread & fish in recent times either. There could be something in that?
But pointing out the bleeding obvious just means you are subjecting the poor fantasy adherents to ‘constant ridicule’, and that makes you ‘just as delusional as them’, somehow. 🙄
“● George Pell is trying to minimise the damage, both monetary and reputational, of the Catholic church.”
Really goes to the core of Pell’s ‘less than total empathy’ for the victims. It’s nothing personal, he’s just trying to save the brand.
But what would teh jeebus do?
He said “some of the victims were not entirely blameless”…
They were children FFS! Being brutally raped by adults…
What part does a 5 year old, an 8 year old or a ten year old play in asking to be anally raped….??
How unsurprisement that you leap to defend Pell and his filthy ilk.
$1,000 says he was responding to a question other than one directly related to sexual assault. I have looked everywhere for the actual transcript and none is published yet. None of the news services are reporting this apparently horrific comment.
Sure, the phrase in isolation is all over Twitter, with the likes of that bastion of decency Catherine Deveney leading the charge. I call bullshit. It’ll be something to do with compensation, reporting of acts or something like that. It won’t be any suggestion by Pell that any child was in any way to blame for being assaulted.
If when the transcript comes out I am shown to be wrong, I will put that $1000 in to whatever charity Reb suggests.
And please don’t label me a defender of child sexual abuse. If I came across it personally, the cops wouldn’t get an opportunity to prosecute.
“please don’t label me a defender of child sexual abuse. “
I didn’t… You’re a defender of the Catholic Church, as evidenced by your attempt to recreate the circumstances to which Pell said “some of the victims were not entirely blameless”…
“I call bullshit.”
How unsurprisement..
“None of the news services are reporting this apparently horrific comment.”
It was broadcast live on ABC News 24……But you knew that already didn’t you… 🙄
“I will put that $1000 in to whatever charity Reb suggests.”
I hear the Church of Rebitology does some good work…
“But pointing out the bleeding obvious just means you are subjecting the poor fantasy adherents to ‘constant ridicule’, and that makes you ‘just as delusional as them’, somehow..”
That’s SnactyLogic for you… If you don’t believe in the talking snake, you’re the one that must be delusional….
Ok, got that.
What was the question to which Pell provided that answer.
I apologise for not watching the live telecast. I do have other stuff on although if I’d known it was on in advance I’d have probably made time.
I won’t be donating to Rebitology, being a member myself that would be self serving.
“Catherine Deveney”
Isnt she the one that suggested on Twitter that a 9 year old Bindi Irwin needed a good root or something like that ?
The transcript will come up here, eventually. “Transcripts will be available once they have been checked by witnesses.”
Pell would probably say the talking snake is metaphorical (sic), but belief in the virgin birth and Jesus going up into heaven are pillars of the church and cannot be tampered with.
It’s science fiction.
It’s stone age fiction!
Now, about that tax exempt status thing?
Any defenders of it? If so, why so?
Not from me.
I’d welcome the Australian Catholic Church onto my client list ……………..LOL
There are some obvious advantages in being agnostic …
… I wonder how long Pell would last in China?
If you defend the Catholic Cgurch you defend the people that control it …
‘It’s stone age fiction!’
The stone age ended around 2000 BC, I think you’ll find the gospels are a product of the Dark Ages.
Of course if you start taxing Religions then you should also tax Unions and Charities
Queue…………………….. howls from the Left
“The catholic church made in $16.2 billion in Australia last year alone. Tax free.”
Where does this figure come from?
“everything except his testimony spoke of power”
David Marr’s take…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/28/george-pell-cardinal-abuse-inquiry
…’wilful blindness’…
That’s tricky, but he said ‘no’ for the record.
According to the 2011 Australian National Census, there were 5,439,257 Catholics in Australia
Which means $2,978.35 per head including kiddies
Pell’s testimony is now available online:
Part One (video)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-27/george-pell-fronts-victorian-sex-abuse-inquiry/4715796
Part Two:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-27/george-pell-fronts-victorian-sex-abuse-inquiry/4715940
Part Three
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-27/perge-pell-fronts-victorian-sex-abuse-inquiry-part/4716306
That’s SnactyLogic for you… If you don’t believe in the talking snake, you’re the one that must be delusional….
Ok, got that.
That isn’t my logic. Indeed I myself don’t believe in the story of the talking snake or indeed any part of the Book of Genesis. In fact I consider it to be entirely false. In believing that however I acknowledge it is an ancient book written for ancient times and designed to place a manageable context in the minds of those who had no understanding of the origins of the human race.
I have said before and I say again that I harbour serious doubts about the various stories as told by many religions, although I consider the existence of figures such as Jesus Christ, Moses, Mohammed, Confucius, and perhaps Buddha to be matters of historical fact.
I am open to the idea of a deity of some form and I refuse to dismiss out of hand the many many many testimonies of those who allege experiences of a spiritual nature.
I think that the idea that this generation is the first to achieve the kind of scientific enlightenment necessary “know that all is spiritual is false” is absolutely as delusional as the absolute faith in the beliefs of generations before.
I guess that makes me a god botherer and a believer in sky fairies.
Can you give me an indication of where he said it? I have a presentation due tomorrow and a VCAT appearance (not criminal) on Thursday.
From Pell’s testimony:
“the problem is not a culture of abuse in the church but a culture of silence.“
Really? Is this merely silence or a culture calculated to perpetuate abuse:
“He admitted his church had covered up abuse for fear of scandal; that his predecessor Archbishop Little had destroyed records, moved paedophile priests from parish to parish and facilitated appalling crimes.”
Why haven’t bishops been gaoled for conduct like this? They are at least as bad as the paedophiles they put in a position to re-offend.
“My ambition,” he said, “is that we should be generous.”
Really? As one victim said:
“I got $27,000 for being bloody raped 20 times.”
Marr writes well as usual. It is almost understated, but the real impact of the article is the contrast between the callousness of the actions and the specious apology:
“I recommit myself to lamenting the suffering and doing what I can to improve the situation.”
Truly lamentable! That statement stands in marked contrast to the actions disclosed in Pell’s testimony and in other evidence so far given.
Queue…………………….. howls from the Left
Try … “Cue” …
“Can you give me an indication of where he said it?”
Sure. He said it at the Royal Commission into Child Sex Abuse inquiry in Melbourne.
Maybe we should check out some of the Inqusitor’s methods (I’m sure ToSY can research them – even drawings would do) … I mean if it was good enough for the catliks in the past …?
“I think that the idea that this generation is the first to achieve the kind of scientific enlightenment necessary “know that all is spiritual is false” is absolutely as delusional as the absolute faith in the beliefs of generations before.”
That’s a false equivalence; but you have already virtually conceded that the fundamental dogma of christianity is bullshit.
Trying to paint me as the delusional one is simply awkward apologetics for the religious, but don’t feel ashamed; it’s a garden variety attack upon atheism & it holds no water.
Thanks, Reb. I’ll watch it on the weekend.
Toilet, your absolute faith that we have reached the end times in terms of human understanding is breathtakingly naive.
Cardinal Pell did not say some of the victims “not entirely blameless” – this was fuelled by Twitter and is entirely false. You should remove it from your article as it is a downright untruth.
Thanx Anna, I’ll pass it on.
Always noice to have catliks visiting.
‘You should remove it from your article as it is a downright untruth.’
I’m sure you’re suggestion is well intentioned Anna, but applying that kind of rule is a little too restrictive for this blog. There wouldn’t be much left.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-27/george-pell-fronts-victorian-sex-abuse-inquiry/4715796
Skip to 7:00
That’s the point where Pell discusses hostility from the press. “Blameless” quote is conspicuously absent.
@reb. It’s a parliamentary inquiry, not a Royal Commission. If you’re going to stick to your guns on a fabricated quote, at least get that bit right.
“your absolute faith that we have reached the end times in terms of human understanding is breathtakingly naive.”
Strawman much.
I have never claimed anything of the sort.
How amusement, a defender of the faithful trying to use ‘faith’ as a slur against a person who has none whatsoever.
As I said above, false equivalence.
Just remember, I don’t believe in made up crap. The very same crap that you have conceded is made up & false.
Now, I certainly don’t claim to have all of the answers, I don’t need to, to arrive at the conclusion that religion is a figment. That is a lot different to me having stated that ‘we have reached the end times in terms of human understanding’. I would assert that furthering human understanding is far more likely to come from the realm of reason & logic than ‘teh spiritual’ (what even is that).
Tell me, do you think Herr Pell would agree with…”the story of the talking snake or indeed any part of the Book of Genesis. In fact I consider it to be entirely false…”? Are you delusional man!?
Excellent, the fantasy apologists are pushing back.
@grodo Ha! Not a catlik, just a bit obsessed with media inaccuracies fuelled by Twitter.
@Tom of Melbourne Actually given that bright sparks such as Catherine Deveny are using this news report as the sole reference of that quote, I think it quite important that it is removed.
Hate media conspiracy?
ROFLMA
https://twitter.com/CatherineDeveny/status/339249779827699712
https://twitter.com/CatherineDeveny/status/339249691105562624
The Hate Media is attacking the poor, emasculated, downtrodden Catholic Church.
Everyone should just shut up & let the Institute of Lies get on with its rearguard defence of contemptible coverups & blame shifting.
They should be allowed to return to arch moralising about who non-religious people sleep with & abortion & contraception.
We should just put all of this unfair Inquiring behind us.
The Church is the Real Victim here.
O
Yikes!
As if this joint has ‘exalted’ readership. 😆
Does Pell read this blog!! 😯
(BTW, sreb … new posters – you’re on a winner … now if we could link the catliks to supernatural beings in space … oh, wait a minute … I think that’s been done …)
‘I think that’s been done …’
LOL
Someone should have read the Disclaimer before linking this blog as any kind of credible source. Hilarious!
LOL! LOL! LOL!
Now we’re in the shite! LOL!
Is this blog the original source for the $16.2 billion profit quote, too? 😯
Mr reb, has left the building …
Giggle!
Hehe, now that would be hilarious!
If you’re reading Pell…Go Fuck Yourself…I don’t think it’s anathema as long as you’re not doing it to others; but feel free to dig out a relevant quote from your tome of mundane morals to prove me wrong.
Is this blog the original source for the $16.2 billion profit quote, too?
No ,,, I’m sure it said, $16.20 profit …
(just straightening my tie, as the cameras roll)
I’d just like to say to Catherine and all our wonderful readers that today there is a wonderful opportunity to buy your share in the Gutter Trash. It is a marvellous, independent media outlet, so please don’t pass it up!
Thank you.
(now turning away from the cameras and pulling underwear out of behind)
None of you can be absolutely sure that I am not actually The jesus, returned to judge you.
That’s the beauty of this confected stuff. You can tweak it to suit your narative as you go.
Watch it … Ser Tee, we’re on the world stage now … guffaw!
Retraction coming soon?
oh what a tangled web we weave …
How funny…! I quoted Catherine Deveny’s tweet in my post. And now she’s using my post as evidence that he said it.
It’s becoming clear that whether or not he said it is now under some deliberation, so in fairness I’ll amend the post..
It doesn’t change the fact that the Institution has tried to cover its tracks.
LOL! I cannot believe that happened … “social media” my arse … anti-social media … this place should be rnamed the The Water Fountain … LOL!
Haven’t laughed so much since I started blogging … shakes head, wipes eyes (again!)
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer person … silly woman …
http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/1460447/threat-of-protest-anti-anzac-day-comments-cause-a-stir-before-visit/
(just straightening my tie, as the cameras roll)
You own a tie? Bow or string? 😯
You mean, the words of Catherine Deveny can’t be relied on as the troof…?
How long has this been going on….??
New posters don’t hang around and I wonder why?
How long has this been going on….??
Considering the content of this thread … does anyone tell the troof anymore?
* narrative… 😉
Bolt would love to do an expose on this.
He often gets a thrill out of running interference for Pell.
It’s not unrealistic to suspect that one of his GT acolytes will bring it to his attention.
“It’s becoming clear that whether or not he said it is now under some deliberation, so in fairness I’ll amend the post..”
You probably should mention that in an update to the post, since there’ll be others coming over to see what all the fuss is about. (Unless you really want to hang Deveney out to dry. 😉 )
(First sentence above is quoting reb.)
“(Unless you really want to hang Deveney out to dry.)”
You know as well as I do that Herr Bolt will be doing that anyway.
Snacty wins the internets, again.
How so?
He’s made some inaccurate statements of his own.
Another false start …
Oops:
Crisis averted.
So where does that leave us?
It won’t have gone unnoticed.
Unfortunately, it’s all a bit of a distraction from this…”He admitted his church had covered up abuse for fear of scandal; that his predecessor Archbishop Little had destroyed records, moved paedophile priests from parish to parish and facilitated appalling crimes.”
Which isn’t disputed.
I am led to wonder if this type of thing would ever get dragged into sunlight willingly by the Institution? I doubt it.
They’re only fessing up in a limited fashion because they’ve been caught helping the emmisaries of fable with their pants down & are unable to credibly deny or obfuscate any longer.
Yeah, its been a worthwhile purging. When Pell was inside being grilled there were catlick women outside crying. Weird stuff.
… there were catlick women outside crying …
Aye, but who for?
The Church is in strife, their faith in jeopardy, the good women are presumably not crying for the victims.
“The Church is in strife, their faith in jeopardy, the good women are presumably not crying for the victims.”
I suspect that many people these days simply realise that they can live a perfectly satisfactory life without having to subscribe to some fanciful fairy tale. Especially one that demands unwavering belief lest you rot in hell.
Christianity? Oh do fuck off.
snacty _ ” I am open to the idea of a deity of some form”
‘a deity` snacty , why not all the deity`s , roman , greek , viking , pagan deity`s
why restrict yourself to one delusion.?
“why restrict yourself to one delusion.?”
Cos for the Tims there’s only one true dog, everything else is “devil worship”…
So anyway, where did that $16.2 billion tax-free profit figure come from? Catherine Deveny?
Sensible people use this site as an authoritative reference, I had no idea that Catherine was so sensible.
The voting pattern seems to show a bias.
It’s a landslide!
When Catherine starts referencing The Gutter Trash as a “reliable source” does that mean we’ve finally arrived….??
Leigh Sales: “Mister Gates”. Tony Jones: “Mister Gates”. Tweeter: “Mister Gates”. Q&A questioner: “Mister Gates”.
Is this the new civility, or is it reserved for American multi-billionaire philanthropists?
“why not all the deity`s , roman , greek , viking , pagan deity`s
why restrict yourself to one delusion.?”
Very good question.
But, alas, he customarily only defends one branch of delusion.
The Gates Foundation invests in Big Oil. 😯
Oops, wrong thread. I’ll take my bleets elsewhere. 😐
Is Big Oil as lucrative as Big Church?! 😯
Dunno. Still waiting to check out the church’s books. I’ll try and buy shares if I can verify that $16.2 bill. 🙄
” he customarily only defends one branch of delusion. ”
most of them do that , they seem to think their delusion is the one true delusion while claiming others faith will not allow them a seat with dog in heaven
*chirp chirp*
“When Catherine starts referencing The Gutter Trash as a “reliable source” does that mean we’ve finally arrived….??”
NO !
‘Eleven victims of child abuse, most at the hands of paedophile Christian Brother Robert Best, have won more than $1 million in compensation from the Catholic order.
‘The victims have collectively received more than $1.1 million in private settlements with the Christian Brothers since they began negotiating last November, their lawyer, Viv Waller, said.’
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/church-victims-win-1m-20130528-2n9o6.html#ixzz2UcoBxouL
George Pell really doesn’t do much to inspire confidence. He’s supercilious, self important. Who would think – ‘there’s a man with the philosophy, spirituality and insight that’s really got me on board’…
He looks like soft old bloke who has been well fed, motivated to look after his sinecure rather than ‘the flock’
(I put this on the wrong thread. My bad.)
No-one here seems willing or able to answer my question about the basis for the quote “The catholic church made in $16.2 billion in Australia last year alone. Tax free.”, so I’ll give my own thoughts on what it might be referring to.
That figure is probably an estimation of the turnover of all enterprises associated with the Catholic Church in Australia. That is, all school fees collected by Catholic primary, secondary and tertiary educational institutions; all fees earned by Catholic-run hospitals; all donations to Catholic charities; and all donations to Catholic parishes. That is, its total turnover before expenses or costs of services provided. That is, the church’s gross income.
Churches are effectively not-for-profit organisations. That is, there are no owners or shareholders to whom dividends need to be distributed, so all monies received are put back into funding the provision of services.
A church would likely not pay tax even if it were a taxable entity. There would be no profit to tax.
“Churches are effectively not-for-profit organisations”
Comedy gold….!!
Even GOD reads TDT … and we all know that’s BS …
Still waiting to check out the church’s books.
As I mentioned a couple of days ago, ToSY … Wikileaks should hack the catlik cave … probably a member … sneaky enough …
A church would likely not pay tax even if it were a taxable entity. There would be no profit to tax.
$16.2 BILLION a year turnover and no tax … yikes!
I suppose if all the teachers, nurses, etc worked for nothing there’d be plenty of taxable profit. Pesky unions.
Is your organisation non-profit? – Tax basics for non-profit organisations
Right. Now on to talking snakes.
Toilet……Tell me, do you think Herr Pell would agree with…”the story of the talking snake or indeed any part of the Book of Genesis. In fact I consider it to be entirely false…”? Are you delusional man!?
I don’t believe in talking snakes. Catholics don’t believe in talking snakes, at least, the most senior Australian Catholic doesn’t.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/adam-and-eve-thats-just-mythology-says-pell/story-e6frg6nf-1226322379822
My belief or otherwise in talking snakes is not dictated by the Catholic Church or any other church or organisation for that matter. I tried to talk to a snake once and he didn’t talk back. That’s why I believe that snakes don’t talk.
Snakes-in-the-grass are slippery characters that spread poisonous rumours.
Trouser snakes are roused when excited, which speaks volumes on temptation and what the apple meant.
That’s why I believe that snakes don’t talk.
Anecdotal evidence is … no evidence at all … there may be a snake that talks, or there may HAVE been a snake that talked … it is possible but not probable …
… which speaks volumes on temptation and what the apple meant.
What did the apple say?
“What did the apple say?”
Upgrade to Siri ?
Snacty, I totally ‘get’ that you’re not foolish enough to take the bible literally. I seriously doubt that I’ve ever accused you of doing so.
Plenty do, however. Even plenty of Catholics.
Remember, I don’t say any of what I’ve said through ignorance. I spent several years living within the Institution. They made me read & study the bible; my desecrations were for free, strangely they never said thankyou.
Now, as for Pell and others ‘revising’ what the church has stood for over centuries, well, I’m a little more cynical than you about that.
As reason & logic intrude into the headspace of laypeople, the church has been forced to ammend & moderate its position to stay relevant. Put simply, it’s become less easy over time to get enough people to swallow the rubbish.
In a way, that exhibits a bit of shrewd PR management by the Institution; evolve or wither.
So, given that it is maintained that the bible is ‘the word of god’ (not my opinion, obviously)…how is it that men have taken it upon themselves to alter the interpretations of that Word over time, opportunistically? Surely, if there is a christian god (there isn’t) & it is perpetual, it’s word should be irrevocable?
Just one of many demonstrations that the church acts out of human motivations, not divine inspiration.
When they claim god’s authority, they are full of shit.
Thinking people know that they are full of shit.
Anyone can be vague & mystical to the point that a negative cannot be proven.
For instance. Disprove what I said back up the thread. It’s the same sort of ‘you can’t be certain!’-crap that all religion swings upon…
“None of you can be absolutely sure that I am not actually The jesus, returned to judge you.”
Religion is all about an intangible vibe. Calling it out for the crap it is, is perfectly acceptable. Nowhere have I said eradicate it. Just that it’s bullshit.
The Serpentine snakes through Hyde Park, to the delight of its Barrackers.
‘What did the apple say?’
The deity said don’t eat the apples on this tree of knowledge, but the snake whispered into eve’s ear that it was OK to have a small snack as long as you include your boyfriend.
I agree with what Toilet Jesus said 200%!!
toiletjesus is the second cumming.
The deity said don’t eat the apples on this tree of knowledge
But that’s the dog in the feary tale … you said … which speaks volumes on temptation and what the apple meant.</i. what did the apple say?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ser Tee, maybe, James, should be introduced to Mellisandra … 😈
He reminds me of Davos’ ill fated son, sometimes, TB. 😉
I think you need to differentiate between the two main books of the Bible. The Old Testament is not the “Word of God” as you represent. The New Testament is. So if you’re going to reference examples of the “ridiculous” nature of Catholic belief, then you should stick to the New Testament.
LOL!
Renly’s dead … must be a big battle at KL coming up soon!
Which son in particular he had a few …
The ‘enthralled’ one.
I like how the ‘unhelpful bits’ of dogma get disowned when they become ‘difficult’.
That’s precisely what I was getting at.
Er, the Old Testament is basically the Jewish, The Tanakh … and is the “history” if Isreal … including the word of god … ie The Ten Commandments (actually 26 from memory) …
The New Testament is based upon the writings of Matthew Mark Luke and John HUNDREDS of years after JC’s death …
Like Toillette I too was brought up by believers and I attended a CofE school … same Bible 😉
“The Old Testament is not the “Word of God” as you represent. The New Testament is.”
Well I’m glad that’s sorted then.
And here I was thinking it was ALL shit.
In fact god has a bigger speaking part in the old testes than it does in the new testes …
Hang on a sec thsis bastard with a shiny ring around his head just waltzed in I’ll ask him …
I don’t think any part of the Old Testament has formed any part of the gospel readings for many years, Toilet, if ever.
I like how the ‘unhelpful bits’ of dogma get disowned when they become ‘difficult’.
Redux
“I like how the ‘unhelpful bits’ of dogma get disowned when they become ‘difficult’.
Oh, it’s all disposable and at the same time relevant according to whoever’s doing the “interpreting” (or lecturing from the pulpit) at any given point in time.
The main problem with bible is that it’s loo long and boring…
If I were re-writing it, it would just be a pamphlet at best.
With a couple of headlines “believe this or you’ll rot in hell”
That sort of thing…
If they’d only made the congregation sign waivers, they wouldn’t find themselves in this current mess! 😯
Unfknblvble. The atheists complain when I exaggerate in my characterisation of their position but seem quite happy to continue with ridiculous characterisations of mine.
Either we’re being accurate and serious or we’re engaging in ridicule of each other’s positions. Which is it?
Ok, so apparently the Old Testament has been excised from scrutiny now. I didn’t get that memo.
I am aware that Catholic Boarding Schools, at least, prefer to focus upon the Good News Bible.
Pretty sure that the Old Testament is still considered rather seriously by a large proportion of christianity though.
Isn’t it where most of the bigotry, moralising & homophobia (amongst other fine obsessions) is derived from?
I’m not sure how that invalidates my point that…”As reason & logic intrude into the headspace of laypeople, the church has been forced to ammend & moderate its position to stay relevant.”
In fact, I’d say that just dropping the Old Testament is pretty clear evidence of precisely that?
Maybe I misunderstand you, are you suggesting that the Old Testament has never been considered the Word of god?
I’m not trying to exaggerate your position, James. You’ve made it abundantly clear that you’re not a card carrying adherent. I accept that.
I’m going to see JC Superstar on Tuesday. The Jesus depicted in that is, at base level, magic aside, kinda cool.
The church didn’t need to invent all of the hocus-pocus around him to promote what are essentially universal traits of human compassion. Believe it or not, I harbour them too. And I’m not the least bit religious & don’t have to do it out of some misplaced fear for my mortal soul.
“The atheists complain…”
I prefer to think of it as ‘clarifying’.
Believe it or not, I harbour them too. And I’m not the least bit religious & don’t have to do it out of some misplaced fear for my mortal soul.
Me too … in many ways more than most who follow an organised religion …
And I’m a firm believer in the Ten Commandments … funny that … I just believe some clever human being wrote them … y’know the ones evolved from amoebas …
BTW, I didn’t know the old testes had dropped off** … might explain why the devout catlik next door didn’t know that the old testes was actually to do with Jews …
Narrow mindsets breed narrow thought processes …
(** but I think its a furphy …)
And I’m a firm believer in the Ten Commandments …
I find a couple of them inconvenient. I think 7 or 8 commandments are quite enough.
“in many ways more than most who follow an organised religion”
Holier than thou? 😉
(Riveroj ne malbona.)
Absolutely my son … I’ve seen the pricks in action in my own family … lying, stealing, cheating, decieveing my family and me …
What once were friends … lying, stealing, cheating and decieving their own families … hypocrites all …
All blessed and confessed by the local shaman … and off to do it again …
But then I suppose a dozen or so people doesn’t make a congregation … still, it is 2013 it might make two congregations …
I agree Meta I’m waiting for their cotton socks to come back on at $1
Nice Meta. I prefer my Shatner high as a kite.
“The atheists complain when I exaggerate in my characterisation of their position but seem quite happy to continue with ridiculous characterisations of mine.”
Yes, but that’s because you are ridiculous snacty.
You just don’t realise it yet.
You should be thankful that you have people like me and Toiletboss who are only too willingly, thanks to our kindness and generosity, to enlighten you.
“the Good News Bible”
Worship dog or you’re gonna die…!!!
Where’s the good news in that…? 😯
snacty , ” I think you need to differentiate between the two main books of the Bible. The Old Testament is not the “Word of God” as you represent. The New Testament is. So if you’re going to reference examples of the “ridiculous” nature of Catholic belief, then you should stick to the New Testament. “
the `new` testy-ment was taken by the delusional`s to teh vatican long after
the joobs followed dog into the desert for forty years to claim `chose`delusionalist status ,
others followed dog into the mosque , and learned to roll on the carpet ,
those that followed cheeses , decided they didn`t like the carpet rollers and decided to crusade them in the name of dog , this all came for dog`s old testy-ment
Riverworld, is interesting.
Science Fiction is no less credible than biblical fantasy. But much more stimulating.
‘Science Fiction is no less credible than biblical fantasy.’
The virgin birth is now science fact, along with flying to the heavens, so we need a new bible to enliven the downtrodden masses. They require shock and awe.
The virgin birth is now science fact </i.
Oh, I need a link to that… egg … I really, really do …
Of course there is the added complication in that the Christian Bible was actually translated by those dirty muslim scholars.
I blame them for the silly bits
I may be wrong, TB, but you can usually find support for that sort of lunatic shit, here…
http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia
“The virgin birth is now science fact, along with flying to the heavens…….”
Yes………Yes
We had clear evidence of that that the other day when a Life Support System fitted with a WiFi iPad was being used to post on blogs even whilst the patient was at the same time busy being unconscious and winging it off to Eternity.
I presume when not blogging the iPad is handy for “inflight” movies etc…………
Teh Bible is a muslim (may They rot in Hades) conspiracy! 😯
Oh……….the flight had to turn back due to leaving too early again it seems
Conservatardpedia, the gift that keeps on giving…
http://www.conservapedia.com/Mystery:Why_Do_Non-Conservatives_Exist%3F
http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project
Hilarious, the Conservative Bible Project, because everyone knows that Liberal Christians aren’t real christians, apparently. 🙄
I may be wrong, TB, but you can usually find support for that sort of lunatic shit, here…
Nah … I want egg’s link … 😉
But thanks …
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Christian Bible was actually translated by those dirty muslim scholars.
I blame them for the silly bits
stick to your numbers and $$$$$, Wally …
History defeats you on that statement … another of your sily bits … 🙄
Repent you cnuts!
Only then can you join these fine upstanding members of society…
‘Nah … I want egg’s link … ‘
Perhaps I was a little hasty, hanging my hat on in vitro fertilization, embryonic transfer and artificial insemination. Without going into detail, it’s quite possible for a woman who has never experienced sexual intercourse to give birth.
It was the Greek translation which created the virgin birth…. brilliant concept.
(Apparently, the dragon with a girl tattoo is true-ish.)
Thanx Meta, fascinating.
“Then the hand of jesus touched me”
Is that when it all began? No wonder the catliks don’t have a problem with it … 🙄
Noice choir … very high voices for old men though?
Chuckle … was it something I said? 😛
“Then the hand
of jesustouched me”And here we are…
A Colbert Report interview featured this project
http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project
guffaw , colbert report LOL
“History defeats you on that statement … another of your sily bits … ”
But since yesterday we are a credible source of facts.
So lets throw as much garbage out there whilst we can and disrupt the World.
By the way I had dinner tonight at Elvis Pizza tonight. Harold Holt and Bob Marley are part owners .
“Elvis Pizza”
Rushcutters Bay? Is that place still going?
Yep
Sure is…..http://www.elvispizza.com.au/
LOL!
Does the owner still come out and sing Elvis songs (like really badly)…
It was a 30 something bloke last night. He was actually quite good.
Even though its 100m to my timeshare City office where I host boring meetings it’s been 25 years since I was last there.
It’s been twenty years since I’ve been there too Walrus.
I remember the owner some old fat guy used to come out and wow everyone with what he thought was talent..
I suppose he’s probably long gone by now….
“I remember the owner some old fat guy used to come out and wow everyone with what he thought was talent..”
I vaguely remember that guy and everyone “politely clapping”………LOL
Then at the end of the night there we’d all trudge up the hill to the Manzil Room
Puleeeese … coupla old farts reminiscing the “good old days” … 🙄
From Twitter…
“Cardinal Pell says that the Catholic Church is being treated unfairly and should be treated like any other organisation. I agree, tax them.”
YES!
AND BACK TAX THEM!
AT LEAST AS LONG AS THEY HAVE BEEN PLAYING WITH OTHER PEOPLE’S CHILDREN ….
snacty_ ” Unfknblvble. The atheists complain when I exaggerate in my characterisation of their position but seem quite happy to continue with ridiculous characterisations of mine. ”
*
Your delusion is your position is not ridiculous.
http://archiearchive.wordpress.com/2013/06/02/28143/
*
snacty_ ” Either we’re being accurate and serious or we’re engaging in ridicule of each other’s positions. Which is it? ”
*
All of the above. _ l am being accurate and serious, and engaging in ridicule of your delusions, both nbn and church. _ How else will you learn.