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Ape? Give me a Break!

May 29, 2013
"I'm so upset..."

“I’m so upset…”

I don’t know about you lot, but to me the whole ApeGate affair is just one monumental PC overload campaign on steroids.

I mean seriously, a thirteen year old girl yells out out “ape” at a football match probably not knowing anything about the connotations (and even if she did, so what), and some butch sporting hero retires to the locker room ‘coz he’s so mortally offended.

Oh Puleazee..  Give me a fkn break..

Have football players become such nancy boys that an outburst from some screaming teenager is sufficient to mortally debilitate a player’s performance and cause a national media uproar dominating headlines across the country.

It was only a matter of months ago that AFL players were defending their conduct when allegations of the gang-rape of young vulnerable women emerged..

But now, they’re getting all offended when some 13 year old calls them names…?

I mean seriously…

 

 

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94 Comments leave one →
  1. May 29, 2013 8:07 pm

    So Goodes is apparently devastated ….. 🙄

  2. egg permalink
    May 29, 2013 8:26 pm

    Football players are not too bright and Goodes overreacted. This is not meant as a racial slur.

  3. IPAddress permalink
    May 29, 2013 8:29 pm

    Some of us were ahead of the troop on this one.

  4. May 29, 2013 8:36 pm

    All humans are apes (http://tinyurl.com/zg2ut), so Goodes might have had more of a case against anyone who suggests he isn’t an ape. So many idiots

  5. IPAddress permalink
    May 29, 2013 8:40 pm

  6. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 29, 2013 9:03 pm

    Maybe it is starting to become a little overblown.

    But Eddie is a world class tool in any event, so are people who live in Moe. So are all Collingwood barrackers.

  7. May 29, 2013 9:25 pm

    I thought Moe was someone who owned a bar…?

  8. Disgustingly Evil Walrus permalink
    May 29, 2013 10:16 pm

    Did anyone ask why no one else like the producer pushed the “big red button” to cut to a commercial ?

  9. egg permalink
    May 30, 2013 7:48 am

    It was outside the hands of the producers, the button pushers are young and reasonably ignorant on the socio political impact of someone being called an ape during a football match.

  10. Evil Walrus( 666 The Mark of the Beast) permalink
    May 30, 2013 8:47 am

    13 Year Old Utters “Ape” on a Friday Night at the Footy

    Eddie might (or should) lose his job over it

    Talk about a “Butterfly flutters its wings in a South American Jungle”

  11. outlander permalink
    May 30, 2013 9:38 am

    Footy has a drama a week these days.
    The ratings must be low, and the media have nothing else to do.
    Surely there is more important things the media could report on.
    Does anyone really care what a 13 year old girl thinks and it’s really sad people are interested what Eddie thinks.
    Goodes, Eddie and the girl need to have a group hug and move on.

  12. IPA address permalink
    May 30, 2013 10:01 am

    What even is racism? I’d say the holocaust, apartheid and the trans-atlantic slave trade are indisputable examples of racism. A 13 year old girl calling a tall hairy man an ape? Not so much.

    “The exact definition of racism is controversial both because there is little scholarly agreement about the meaning of the concept “race”, and because there is also little agreement about what does and doesn’t constitute discrimination.”

  13. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 10:09 am

    DAY FKN SIX!

    Shakes head …

    BTW, well spotted, sreb … 🙄

    Did we win, ToSY?

    No-one won …

    I was called a whinging Pom … didn’r bother me I just got on with proving I wasn’t … actions speak louder than words …

    … look at sreb, he’s a wee Scottish git … but he doesn’t take offence … he just gets on with TDT … 🙂

  14. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 30, 2013 10:45 am

    It is becoming a little overblown. Goodes probably earns near $mill a year. That’s some salve.

    (mind you, there is a level of latent racism, particularly against indigenous people, that shouldn’t be given any comfort…I don’t really buy the ‘…but I was called a pom’ either)

  15. Evil Walrus( 666 The Mark of the Beast) permalink
    May 30, 2013 10:50 am

    “…there is a level of latent racism…”

    I think someone referred to it as “casualised racism” in that attempts are made at making it “comedic” or “humourising” it

  16. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 10:57 am

    Has Goodes explained that the real face of racism is Fat Eddie McGuire, or does he reserve that kind of invective for 13 year-old girls?

    Rich celebrities playing identity politics inevitably show themselves to be gutless hypocrites.

  17. grodo permalink
    May 30, 2013 11:22 am

    Fat Eddie Chockes Back Tears

  18. May 30, 2013 11:29 am

    “he’s a wee Scottish git ..”

    LOL 🙂

  19. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 12:40 pm

    About time this accepted racism in our society is being highlighted. It needs to be every single time. They are never ‘just jokes’ or a bit of fun, it badly hurts real people every single day. It needs to be called out for the hate that it is, every single time.

    If fast eddie only gets a bit of education, he’s getting off lightly for what is racial vilification, we should be seeing him in court like bolt.

    By making out it’s nothing and making excuses for the tolerance of this racism in society, you lot show that your own attitudes and beliefs are behind this problem, you can look in the mirror and feel proud to call yourselves racists.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-29/cassidy-collingwood-board-must-act-on-eddie-mcguire/4721236

    …“To me Australia is very casual with racism. I would argue that many people in this country would not think what Eddie or the 13 year old girl said last Friday is ‘bad’. In my opinion race relations in this country is systematically a national disgrace and we have a long way to go to reach a more harmonious and empathetic society.”

  20. Evil Walrus( 666 The Mark of the Beast) permalink
    May 30, 2013 12:43 pm

    “By making out it’s nothing and making excuses for the tolerance of this racism in society, you lot show………”

    WTF

    Who exactly is making excuses ?

    I think he must resign from Collingwood

  21. IPA address permalink
    May 30, 2013 1:45 pm

    “By making out it’s nothing and making excuses for the tolerance of this racism in society, you lot show that your own attitudes and beliefs are behind this problem, you can look in the mirror and feel proud to call yourselves racists.”

    No, I will not be browbeaten into pretending I agree with somebody else’s version of racism. People are jumping at shadows and seeing racism where none exists.

  22. May 30, 2013 1:58 pm

    “you lot”

    🙂

  23. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 2:34 pm

    “you lot”

    I wonder if TB could trademark that for me 🙂

    People are jumping at shadows and seeing racism where none exists.

    Said as only a member of the dominant and privileged culture could.

    BS, people are calling it what it is and saying it is unacceptable in a modern society.

    Seems racism stems from religion:

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4722082.html

    …When Europeans began exploring Africa in the mid-1400s, they developed justifications for European superiority over other races.
    Early on was the concept of the Great Chain of Being, which was a theological hierarchical explanation for all of existence. God was on top, angels and demons next, then humans (men above women), then animals, plants and finally minerals. European scholars asserted that non-white people were lower on the Great Chain of Being, sitting somewhere between humans and animals…

    I would argue that not much has changed since those early times, it is religious belief that is responsible for holding back the natural progression of society through the ages. Religion is an outdated, regressive and divisive force in modern society, it receives funding by the taxpayer [against our will] for performing the work of government – caring for those left behind in a capitalist/neoliberal society. Government props up religion as a way of exerting control over the masses.

    …It is the year 2013 and it is about time that we say that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people – as well as all other racial and ethnic groups – have the right not to have to cop racial vilification because someone was ignorant. But let us take that ignorance and educate – and that is absolutely what Adam Goodes and others are advocating…

    My experiences of most aboriginal people has been one of a generous, friendly, welcoming and tolerant people who show a much greater understanding and acceptance of white australians than is ever shown them in return. This includes members of the stolen generation.

    I would love to see a national inclusion, acceptance and advancement of indigenous goals in my lifetime.

  24. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 2:37 pm

    “you lot show that your own attitudes and beliefs are behind this problem, you can look in the mirror and feel proud to call yourselves racists.”

    What’s with all the offensive invective?

  25. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 2:38 pm

    “By making out it’s nothing and making excuses for the tolerance of this racism in society, you lot show that your own attitudes and beliefs are behind this problem, you can look in the mirror and feel proud to call yourselves racists.”

    KL, Goodes was a dill making a show of a 13 yo girl the way he did … in a word a “bully” or a whimp … and I doubt that a phutballer of that calibre has poor eyesight … he knew what he was doing …

    As for racism … its not on … but the Aboriginal community is now “taking ownership” of words that most of us would never use in a racist way anyway … nor realise that (some) Aboriginals do …

    Big blokes have been nicknamed ape amongst groups for as long as I remember …

    Eddie McGuire was/is a twit, to even think of associating King Kong with Goodes after the furore since Saturday …

    The other thing I’ve noticed is a strange shift in the Australian character … no-one can laugh at themselves anymore …

    I had the privelege of training as a Nasho with a volunteer full blood Aboriginal in my platoon {Aboriginals were excluded from the Act} … he certainly gave as good as he got with a big grin and a laugh … no racism there and we/he would back any of us up …

    In PNG I saw expats treat Nationals very poorly … my own approach was to treat them no different to Australian managers and workers (I was the Management & Business Training Manager for Elcom … productivity and training assessment results doubled …

    I also worked with Aborginals developing a Diploma of Performing Arts in Brisbane … the only people that gave them the shits was the softly, softly goody two shoes from the state government who funded the project treating adults like kids …

    I also worked with Aboriginal supervisors in Weipa … I was told more than once that management tended to be too soft on Aboriginals, by Aboriginals …

    I guess we all come at this issue from our own life perspectives … luckily mine have always been positive …

    +++++++++++++++++++

    Perhaps I get away with just being me, sometimes?

    My next door neighbour is a Muslim … he was carrying his baby as he popped his head over the fence one day for a chat … the baby was completely covered to protect her from the sun … “G’day, Addis”, I said “what, ya got under there? A bloody big bomb?” … he pissed himself laughing …

  26. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 2:39 pm

    What’s with all the offensive invective?

    … asked, The Maester of Invective … 😆

  27. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 2:41 pm

    you lot™ KL

    (I wonder if TB could trademark that for me 🙂

    My pleasure, KL …

  28. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 2:47 pm

    I would love to see a national inclusion, acceptance and advancement of indigenous goals in my lifetime.

    So would I, KL … but this disturbs me …

    That too needs to be included … and the Aboriginal movers and shakers need to step up too … the Aboriginal community itself needs to be more active than promoting sport, painting, dance, and music (much of it Westernised now anyway) … its colonial thinking at its worst … I met more a than a few Aboriginals now that could easily operate a business … that needs to be encouraged and education IS the answer …

  29. May 30, 2013 2:52 pm

    “even think of associating King Kong with Goodes after the furore since Saturday …”

    Without wishing to appear pedantic, he was attempting to associate Goodes with King Kong…Not the other way around…

    (Just sayin’)

    🙂

  30. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 2:54 pm

    Why thank ye, Jummy, ya wee Scots git … 🙄

  31. Ol' Sancty permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:02 pm

    I would argue that not much has changed since those early times, it is religious belief that is responsible for holding back the natural progression of society through the ages. Religion is an outdated, regressive and divisive force in modern society, it receives funding by the taxpayer [against our will] for performing the work of government – caring for those left behind in a capitalist/neoliberal society. Government props up religion as a way of exerting control over the masses.

    Utter bullshit, Kittylitter. Many races throughout history, religiously or otherwise motivated, have considered themselves superior to others. In some cases, like in the American Deep South, some have tried to make it into a religious thing but it simply comes down to a fear or mistrust of those unlike oneself.

    Indeed, one of the most referred to stories in the New Testament is that of the Good Samaritan. Its message was clear.

    I bet Goodes wished he never opened that can of worms immediately he saw the age of the person he was dealing with. And I think he did well to redirect the offence away from the girl to a more environmental issue. I have no doubt that the “ape” reference was made somewhat more quietly by the grandmother and then repeated at top voice by the girl. Certainly the grandmother did nothing in the footage to pull her up. I remember when Dad would mutter stuff like “you bastard” at the footy and I’d yell the exact same thing out and get a clip over the ear. Kids repeat what they hear. Nowadays I get a kick out of calling out nonsensical statements and hearing kids repeat them.

    In some respects, perhaps victims should harden up a bit but there’s a broad community push to stamp out racism, that’s a good thing, so I don’t really mind the issue being thrashed out. It would be nice if the meeja got on board a bit rather than trying to get the scoop on the kid.

  32. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:06 pm

    the exact same thing

    Grrrr … exactly the same … (if its good enough for, sreb … 🙂 )

  33. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:08 pm

    … the only people that gave them the shits was the softly, softly goody two shoes from the state government who funded the project treating adults like kids …

    that still happens, It is the way management of both government and corporate operates here [authoritarian & oppressive/adversarial] and it is offensive to all workers, black and white.

    The other thing I’ve noticed is a strange shift in the Australian character … no-one can laugh at themselves anymore …

    blame the way that people are pitted against each other by political parties and corporate culture. The need for the media to constantly create a drama or controversy. people are over worked, time poor and stressed/anxious about their jobs and family duties.

    We can have humour without racist overtones, don’t you think minorities and aboriginals are totally sick of this ‘just a joke’ racist humour, will it ever end? They live with racism every day of their lives, why do they need to laugh ‘at’ themselves along with whitey?

  34. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:10 pm

    “Seems racism stems from religion”

    Racism didn’t begin in the 14th century. Both religion and a preference for members of one’s own tribe are evolutionary adaptations. No doubt you will recall that ‘barbarian’ is an expression of the ancient Greeks for those uncivilised types who did not speak Greek.

    “This includes members of the stolen generation.”

    Do you mean the rescued generation? The evidence is that the vast majority of those removed from their families were removed for welfare reasons, just like today. Only today the inherent racism built into the system means a lot of unnecessary suffering is inflicted on indigenous children by insisting on placing them with indigenous carers when better options are available. Here is where we are at now:

    Child abuse and mistreatment in Aboriginal communities are endemic and worsening by the year. Here’s a few snapshots:
    • Rates of hospitalisation for neglect and abandonment among indigenous children have been put at thirty to eighty times higher than for the non-indigenous population.[1]
    • More than 12,000 Aboriginal children have been removed and are in care, making up a third of all Australian children in care.[2]
    • One in nineteen Aboriginal children is in care, ten times the non-indigenous rate.[3]
    • In Queensland, one in every 2.2 Aboriginal children is known to Child Safety, and this is expected to increase to every second child being known to Child Safety this fiscal year. In 2007–08, only one in 4.6 Aboriginal children was known to Child Safety.[4]
    • Yet under-reporting of the sexual abuse of Aboriginal children may be nearly 90 per cent.

    This situation is exacerbated by multiculti morons who would rather prattle on about stolen generations than to face up to these issues and rescue more children.

  35. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:11 pm

    … along with whitey?

    I find that term offensive, KL … 😦

    I’ll be back soon I need to find the kleenex …

  36. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:13 pm

    I certainly agree with, sb’s last para …

  37. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:15 pm

    “… asked, The Maester of Invective …”

    I’ve turned over a new leaf, sort of! And, as far as I can recall, I haven’t slagged of “you lot” as racists, or anything like that.

  38. May 30, 2013 3:19 pm

    “one of the most referred to stories in the New Testament is that of the Good Samaritan. Its message was clear.”

    I’ve heard of that story but I really can’t remember what it’s all about….

    “most referred to?”

    Who by….??

    Certainly not me or anyone I know…

    Probably just referred to by dog-botherers… I mean why would any other normal people refer to it…..

  39. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:28 pm

    In some respects, perhaps victims should harden up a bit but there’s a broad community push to stamp out racism, that’s a good thing, so I don’t really mind the issue being thrashed out.

    I don’t see why they need to harden up at all, that is the same as asking them to tolerate and accept it IMO. They should call it out each and every time. But I do agree with the issue being highlighted and thrashed out and a community push to change racist attitudes. Finally we might be growing up as a society, let’s go with it and not allow others to try and stomp it out or excuse racism due to fear of progress, change or over sympathising with older generational ignorance and bigotry.

  40. egg permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:45 pm

    ‘But I do agree with the issue being highlighted and thrashed out and a community push to change racist attitudes.’

    I tend to agree, there is no harm in a public humiliation now and then… to get society talking. Its a worthwhile discussion for a nation of migrants.

  41. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:46 pm

    Do you mean the rescued generation? The evidence is that the vast majority of those removed from their families were removed for welfare reasons, just like today.

    What evidence is that?

  42. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 3:54 pm

    I tend to agree, there is no harm in a public humiliation now and then…

    Me too … as long as we don’t throw out the baby with the bath water … eg putting a 13 yo kid in the stocks … and my bet is that the grown up “professional” (gawd strewth) who should know better … will likely get a slap on the wrist … and continue as normal …

  43. Walrus (Prince of Darkness and Evil) permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:03 pm

    “……. but the Aboriginal community is now “taking ownership” of words that most of us would never use in a racist way anyway … nor realise that (some) Aboriginals do …”

    I disagree

    I’ve got a mate called Spud. He’s brown on the outside but very white on the inside. His aunty called him that when he was growing up. He’s a gigantic Torres Strait Islander lad.

    He’s said to me a few times being called black or nigger does not bother him at all but what really gets him angry to the edge of violent retaliation is when anyone refers to him as “a black monkey”. Any reference to “primates” is a reference to a “missing link”

    The term “Ape” would also be one of those I’d imagine.

    Until he mentioned it I’d never thought about it that way or how some of our dark skinned natives felt about certain words.

    I suppose it would be a little like one of us visiting a Harlem New York coffee shop and sitting down and asking the waitress not

    ” Could I have a coffee no cream”

    but instead……….

    “Could I have a short black”.

    Different strokes for different folks

  44. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:04 pm

    “What evidence is that?”

    This or this little spat wherein Manne is unable to present even 10 children who have been ‘stolen’.

  45. Walrus (Prince of Darkness and Evil) permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:04 pm

    Actually Andrew Symonds was called a “monkey” in India was he not ?

  46. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:12 pm

    And at the SCG. Harbhajan Singh was banned for three Tests.

  47. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:28 pm

    And Eddie (once again) has the full support of the board … modern Robber Barons … different wallets different rules …

    Nothing is new …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    er Wally … this was my point …

    Until he mentioned it I’d never thought about it that way or how some of our dark skinned natives felt about certain words.

    Why this obsession with words … I was always taught “sticks ‘n’nstones etc ” … whats’ changed …

  48. Walrus (Prince of Darkness and Evil) permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:33 pm

    “er Wally … this was my point … ”

    Ooooops sorry I see that now.

    I took it the wrong way as I was interrupted by a usually really annoying client.

    But today she rang to give me her Visa Card details and was so shocked that she was paying on time I lost the context of your post

  49. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:35 pm

    …this little spat wherein Manne is unable to present even 10 children who have been ‘stolen’.

    you are joking, you offer up the the sophistry and misrepresentation of andrew bolt as evidence, you’ve been well and truly ‘bolted’!

    “Name Ten”: The journalism of Andrew Bolt
    By ROBERT MANNE
    Monday, 17th October 2011

    http://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/robert-manne/2011/10/24/1319413522/name-ten-journalism-andrew-bolt

    …Bolt claimed on a dozen occasions or more that I had been challenged but had failed to name even ten “stolen” children. Usually he failed to mention that I had sent him some 260 names. He never mentioned that I had asked him to supply a definition of what counted for him as a stolen child and that he had refused. On one rare occasion when he did acknowledge that I had sent him more than 200 names, Bolt claimed that the names I had sent him all came from Queensland. They did not. He claimed that in these cases neglect had been proven at court. In fact, as I had already made clear to him, having Aboriginal blood was itself sufficient proof of neglect under Queensland’s 1865 Industrial Schools and Reformatory Act. Bolt also claimed that the children in the “half-caste” homes in interwar Darwin and Alice Springs were sent there because of neglect. As the documentary collection shows beyond ambiguity, they were not. The policy set out in 1934 was explicit: “It is the policy of the Administration to collect all half-castes from the native camps at an early age and transfer them to the Government Institutions at Darwin and Alice Springs.”…

  50. Walrus (Prince of Darkness and Evil) permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:39 pm

    “And Eddie (once again) has the full support of the board …”

    AFL and anyone associated with it are protected species in Melbourne.

    If it had been an NRL Chairman he would have been absolutely hounded out of office. Most people in NSW or Qld would struggle to name anyone other than their own team’s chairman.

    The “celebrity status” ceases at the players and coach .

    AFL Club board members seem to have much higher profiles

  51. Walrus (Prince of Darkness and Evil) permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:45 pm

    And don’t forget Eddie is a bit too loose with his tongue on occasions.

    So he should be “boned”.

    And don’t forget his Western Sydney “falafel” moment showed up what he knew about Sydney’s geography

  52. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 4:47 pm

    And windschuttle is a fraud of a historian:

    http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2008/june/1244161889/robert-manne/keith-windschuttle-and-robert-edgerton-comparison-texts

    …In response to this Quadrant piece, the talented younger historian, James Boyce, the author of the acclaimed new history, Van Diemen’s Land, wrote a detailed and devastating critique of Windschuttle for Quadrant. PP McGuinness not only refused to publish Boyce. He didn’t even bother to provide reasons. In the body of the article, Boyce reiterated but in a new way the case he had made in Whitewash. In one of his footnotes (no.xxx), Boyce summarized brilliantly but briefly some of the basic weaknesses in Windschuttle uncovered by other Whitewash authors. The article and the footnotes can be found here.

    In my view, Windschuttle has no alternative but to respond to this James Boyce piece. And he also has no alternative but to respond in detail, as he promised five years ago, to the central findings which question his understanding of Tasmanian anthropology and history of the other Whitewash chapters summarized in Boyce’s footnote…

    http://www.themonthly.com.au/files/Quadrant_article_10_December_2003.pdf

    …However Windschuttle’s Quadrant defence has made even this Whitewash
    discussion, and the charge underpinning it, redundant. The question of
    ignorance about the reality of Van Diemen’s Land revealed in Fabrication
    must now gives way to a far more serious matter, the possibility of deliberate
    deceit…

  53. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 5:15 pm

    “you are joking, you offer up the the sophistry and misrepresentation of andrew bolt as evidence, you’ve been well and truly ‘bolted’!”

    A “Bolted-on” type perhaps? Not really.

    As to the Bolt/Manne spat, as far as I can see Manne has supplied a list of names, most of which on close inspection, are not able to be fairly categorised as ‘stolen’.

    Dawson dealt fairly decisively with Boyce in “Washout”:

    Boyce’s contribution to Whitewash was a mouth-foaming denunciation of Keith Windschuttle, with a particular emphasis on Windschuttle’s inability to get his facts right. Right!

    Boyce lets fly with:

    “Windschuttle can impose his contemporary conclusions on Van Diemen’s Land history only by limiting his selection of sources, thereby silencing not just ordinary Van Diemonians but—with almost unheard-of presumption—even the privileged classes.”

    “Even the privileged classes”? This is a bit rich coming from a budding historian on Tasmanian history and the author of Van Diemen’s Land. You can search the writings of orthodox historians for hours—days—weeks even, without finding any opinion, quote or document that supports or gives sympathy for the so-called “privileged classes”. You can search in vain for any contemporary historian who reports that the “awkward” historical data shows that whites killed, by violent means, 120 black Tasmanians, while the Aborigines killed, in a violent manner, 187 whites. Game to the Aborigines.

    Unfortunately both privileged classes and the less privileged classes get little mention in the world of those who engage in political predeterminism. In their black view of Australian history the European settlers play no part other than to be targets for academic accusations and fabrications.

    Boyce claims Windschuttle is author of many “gross oversights and mistakes”, and that: “170 years of scholarship, 200 years of well-accessed and widely read records, will leave this particular attempt to deny our story looking very shallow indeed.”

    As John Dawson notes, in his revised Washout:

    “Like an avenging angel with a jackhammer, Boyce sets about undermining the Fabrication “edifice”. Denunciations of Windschuttle’s “extraordinary naïve”, “transparently flawed”, “distorted and unbalanced perspective”; “startling omission[s]”, “profound ignorance” and “serious”, “embarrassing”, “elementary” errors go by, page after page.

    Anticipation of the disclosure of examples of this litany of scholastic crimes mounts, then gets lost in the next wave of denunciations, then mounts again. The problem is that when a reader tries to put his finger on exactly what “gross oversights and mistakes” the denunciations denote, their identity proves to be mysteriously elusive. Sometimes opposite accusations cancel each other out.”

    Dawson applies the Catch-22 analogy to Boyce’s logic and finds that Boyce is a master of that art. In doing so Dawson also reveals the sort of clever trickery that was used in the unsuccessful attempt to discredit Keith Windschuttle. He goes on to reveal:

    “To go from the lame to the inane, on page 38 of Whitewash we find Boyce backing Windschuttle into a corner with the rhetorical question: “Why, on Fabrication’s own terms, [were] the orders warning against committing acts of violence against Aborigines … even necessary … if no Aborigines had been killed by whites for two years?”

    What he would have concluded if there had been no orders warning against killing Aborigines he didn’t say, but the Catch-22 is plain:

    Anyone who shows that the British actively outlawed the killing of Aborigines implies that the British were killing Aborigines.”

    What James Boyce doesn’t say is that warnings were dispatched as a matter of British policy for colonial governance, and a new Governor had to be able to demonstrate to London that he had complied.

    The problem with many modern historians is that they seem far more interested in furthering a narrative and they don’t like things like facts getting in the way of it. They hate Windschuttle precisely because he bases his work on those pesky facts. That doesn’t gel well with your post-modernist academic types.

  54. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 5:16 pm

    The great Windschuttle hoax

    http://johnquiggin.com/2009/01/07/the-great-windschuttle-hoax/

    The real hoax victims here have been those on the political right, who’ve repeatedly swallowed Windschuttle’s promises to refute well-established facts about Australian history “later this year” and who are now getting their “science” from his discredited magazine…

    Windschuttle hung out to dry on the rabbit-proof fence:

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/12/15/rundle-windschuttle-hung-out-to-dry-on-the-rabbit-proof-fence/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

  55. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 5:21 pm

    http://johnquiggin.com/2013/04/11/counting-to-three/

    …It’s truly bizarre to see self-satisfied climate “sceptics” who can’t even calculate a standard error, but have convinced themselves they are smarter than professional scientists. Stranger still to see someone like Bolt, who’s incapable of basic arithmetic, treated as an expert by his readers. But surely even the editor of a literary magazine ought to be able to count to three.

    Of course, Windschuttle’s problems with the integers are trivial. His real offence was to attack scholars like Henry Reynolds on the basis of promised evidence he has been unable to deliver. It’s more than a decade since Windschuttle started this stuff and, to the best of my knowledge, he hasn’t published anything since then showing a single error in Reynolds’ work on the Queensland frontier, or that of the other historians he accused of fabrication. It’s pretty clear who is spinning the fabrications here…

  56. egg permalink
    May 30, 2013 5:21 pm

    ‘eg putting a 13 yo kid in the stocks … ‘

    I feel sorry for her, but she’s part of the conversation we have to have.

  57. May 30, 2013 5:26 pm

    Silver Lining
    At least the public will finally get a break from that broad-meadows boof-head , `Eddie-everywhere`

  58. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 5:45 pm

    KL, I don’t think you should be criticising me for linking to Bolt (especially in this context) when you wheel out Rundle and Quiggan. None of the pieces you link to make a lot of sense. They don’t even approach being logical arguments. Compare the Bolt piece I linked to with Quiggan and Rundle’s work you linked to. At least Bolt goes to the trouble of quoting Manne and then responding to the issue raised. Quiggan and Rundle merely serve up stream-of-consciousness bluster and bile.

  59. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 5:59 pm

    KL, I don’t think you should be criticising me for linking to Bolt

    You must be jokin’ … 😯

    Cred 0 …

    PS I have not been following you’re discussion of cut and pastes zzzzzzzz … I just spotted that line and shook my head …

  60. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 6:09 pm

    They don’t even approach being logical arguments.

    how so, is it the jaundiced eye of the beholder?

    yet somehow bolt’s sophistry does? strange.

    THE STOLEN GENERATIONS: A DOCUMENTARY COLLECTION:

    http://www.themonthly.com.au/files/stolen.pdf

    …My supposed failure to name ten members of the stolen generations is now a settled part of contemporary right wing mythology…

    …My story has a curious ending. When the erstwhile anti-Murdoch campaigner, Bruce Guthrie, was still editor-in-chief of the Herald Sun I emailed him asking for a thousand words to refute Andrew Bolt’s “name ten” big lie. Guthrie replied that he could not give me an answer while Andrew Bolt was on holiday. This was a curious answer. I thought the editor-in-chief might actually run the paper. On several occasions I repeated my request. Guthrie did not respond…

  61. May 30, 2013 6:21 pm

    don`t worry TB , windbag is old news , and was cited adnauseum by bolt a couple of years ago , so obviously it`s derp

  62. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2013 6:23 pm

    KL, I don’t think you should be criticising me for linking to Bolt

    course not, the scribblings of a proven racist and right wing print-shock-jock renowned for distortions, lies and misrepresentations are seen as worthy of making your argument, but rebuttals from actual researchers, historians and the very person who was attacked by bolt [manne] don’t make sense?

    crazy, you gotta be looking with eyes wide shut!

  63. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 6:28 pm

    KL: “how so, is it the jaundiced eye of the beholder?”

    I liked this comment from the second Quiggan article you linked to, apart from the fact that the author only wanted to apply it to one side:

    “Ideology looks like common sense from the inside. Professor John Quiggin has alerted us to this phenomenon. Indeed, from the inside an ideologue does not even realise he or she is being an ideologue unless he or she has insight.

    By the way, how much space has the Monthly given to Windschuttle to refute Manne?

    As part of the background to this saga, here is what one early critic of Windschuttle said after actually reading his book:

    “I have now looked over Windschuttle’s book, where extensive referencing to the sources for the relevant factual claims is to be found. Therefore, I apologise unreservedly to Keith Windschuttle for making the incorrect claim that he had not provided adequate referencing for such factual claims, and for any adverse inferences concerning his professional integrity that might have been made on the basis of that claim.”

  64. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2013 6:29 pm

    Doesn’t Goddes look sad in the photo at the top and his team just won … a very troubled man … shows money can’t buy you happiness, I suppose … may as well make everyone else miserable …

  65. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2013 7:14 pm

    TB, I think that somewhere along the line Goodes made the decision to use his position to highlight racism as an issue. It was a fairly decent thing to try to do. That probably explains why he made so much of the initial insult.

    Sadly, I don’t think he has executed his strategy very well, and probably now understands that it is not as black and white an issue as it might have seemed at the outset. Certainly going hard on the 13 year old and not so hard on Fat Eddie is not a good look.

  66. May 30, 2013 7:16 pm

    By the way, how much space has the Monthly given to Windschuttle to refute Manne?

    Splatter, you are aware that Limited-News has provided space for thousands of attacks against Robert Manne , and didn`t give Manne a right-of-reply to most (if_any) of their attacks upon him.

  67. outlander permalink
    May 30, 2013 9:09 pm

    Eddie’s appology kinda reminded me of Alan Jones appology.
    Just made himself look a bigger cock.
    I thought kids where allowed to behave badly: it’s called expressing themselves.
    Since when has society been allowed to take punitive action against little kids?
    Doesn’t the United Nations have rules about that.
    I bet the kid that threw the sandwich won’t get punished, you just can’t do that these day.

  68. IPAddress permalink
    May 30, 2013 9:19 pm

    The AFL Footy Show just aired fifteen minutes of sanctimonious crap on this topic. The gnashing of teeth was led by “Sam” Newman, who happens to present a Street Talk segment every week, where he travels to certain lower socio-economic suburbs and deliberately seeks out people of lower (shall we say) social abilities for the sole purpose of vilifying, ridiculing and humiliating them.

    Fucking. Hypocrites.

  69. outlander permalink
    May 30, 2013 10:25 pm

    ape girl shown the door
    sandwich boy suspended
    eddie the cock……..nothing
    this is a f@*ked up world

  70. egg permalink
    May 31, 2013 6:37 am

    ‘Urban Dictionary defines casual racism as “the art of being slightly racist in a casual fashion. It’s when one doesn’t really hate people of another colour” but still laughs at jokes at their expense.

    ‘That’s the type of ignorance that needs to be tackled head on, said Professor Shane Houston…’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/are-you-a-casual-racist-20130530-2ndyy.html#ixzz2UoIZpbWN

  71. TB Queensland permalink
    May 31, 2013 9:55 am

    DAY SEVEN …

    http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/collingwood-board-gives-eddie-mcguire-full-support-after-he-breaks-down-on-air-amid-fallout-from-king-kong-reference-to-adam-goodes/story-fnelctok-1226654068191

    Quite frankly I believe the longer this goes on the “harder” people will become to the cause … not embrace it …

    Actions will always speak louder than words …

  72. egg permalink
    May 31, 2013 10:48 am

    TB your comment earlier about the neighbour who considers it racist being referred to as a missing link … that’s the crux of the matter and this debate can’t do any harm.

    All we ask is that people should think before they speak….

    So Jack says to Paddy: “Close your curtains the next time you’re making love to your wife. The whole street was watching and laughing at you yesterday.”

    Paddy says: “Well the joke’s on them stupid because I wasn’t even at home yesterday.”

  73. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 31, 2013 10:50 am

    Raaaacist!

  74. egg permalink
    May 31, 2013 12:25 pm

    chuckle

  75. TB Queensland permalink
    May 31, 2013 12:34 pm

    What are you talking about, egg? Not sure that was me? I referred to my Muslim neighbour … and a bomb joke … 😯

    All we ask is that people should think before they speak….

    That could apply to posting too ..

  76. egg permalink
    May 31, 2013 12:43 pm

    Yeah…should get my facts right.

  77. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 31, 2013 12:54 pm

    …and deliberately seeks out people of lower (shall we say) social abilities for the sole purpose of vilifying, ridiculing and humiliating them.

    Does he vilify them because of their race/skin colour?

    Even white people of ‘lower’ class are not subjected to racial hatred, they still belong to the dominant ‘superior’ culture and have a status above that of all aboriginals, even those who have higher socio-economic status [in racist hierarchy].

    Sam newman, is he still on the TV! I don’t know why anyone has to be personally mocked and humiliated as entertainment. Why do you watch the show?

  78. egg permalink
    May 31, 2013 12:56 pm

    ‘What are you talking about, egg? Not sure that was me?’

    Went back over the thread and couldn’t find any reference coming from you, apologies. Whoever wrote it, is a good writer, because the image hasn’t left me.

    On the intellectual Mann, he’s another dill, a catastrophist supporting the AGW agenda. This makes me sceptical of all his utterances.

  79. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 31, 2013 1:01 pm

    “Even white people of ‘lower’ class are not subjected to racial hatred, they still belong to the dominant ‘superior’ culture and have a status above that of all aboriginals, even those who have higher socio-economic status [in racist hierarchy].”

    So you reckon the 13yo girl from a poor broken home, the ‘face of racism’, has higher status than Adam Goodes or horse sex aficionado Larissa Behrendt?

  80. May 31, 2013 1:08 pm

    “Sam newman, is he still on the TV!”

    Was there ever a more loathsome individual…?

  81. Preposterously Evil Walrus permalink
    May 31, 2013 1:15 pm

    Egg…………………is this it ?

    “………..I’ve got a mate called Spud. He’s brown on the outside but very white on the inside. His aunty called him that when he was growing up. He’s a gigantic Torres Strait Islander lad.

    He’s said to me a few times being called black or nigger does not bother him at all but what really gets him angry to the edge of violent retaliation is when anyone refers to him as “a black monkey”. Any reference to “primates” is a reference to a “missing link”

    The term “Ape” would also be one of those I’d imagine.

    Until he mentioned it I’d never thought about it that way or how some of our dark skinned natives felt about certain words.

    I suppose it would be a little like one of us visiting a Harlem New York coffee shop and sitting down and asking the waitress not

    ” Could I have a coffee no cream”

    but instead……….

    “Could I have a short black”……………….”

  82. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 31, 2013 1:19 pm

    So you reckon the 13yo girl from a poor broken home, the ‘face of racism’, has higher status than Adam Goodes or horse sex aficionado Larissa Behrendt?

    yep, she’s white isn’t she? it’s not what ‘I’ reckon, I don’t think like that, but racists do.

    Was there ever a more loathsome individual…?

    be hard to find! Could tomwaterhouse.com be the new sam newman?

  83. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 31, 2013 1:24 pm

    “yep, she’s white isn’t she? it’s not what ‘I’ reckon, I don’t think like that, but racists do.”

    Who are these racists? How do you know what they think?

  84. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 31, 2013 1:27 pm

    On the intellectual Mann, he’s another dill, a catastrophist supporting the AGW agenda. This makes me sceptical of all his utterances.</i.

    you are sceptical because your research/knowledge is way more credible than the experts in the field? 🙂

    The only Confidence issue in Parliament this week was the Liberal National Party, including Christopher Pyne and Tony Abbott, voting in support of the science of man-made climate change. I am pleased they expressed full confidence in the science community of Australia, and now openly accept man-made climate change as real and in need of a serious policy response.

    This week, no journalist mentioned anything about a no confidence motion from the LNP.This is despite conversations with The Australian newspaper’s Lauren Wilson about 6pm last night, where I indicated a view on the paper’s anti-NBN campaign that asbestos issues in pits and pipes are an issue for Telstra management and shareholders, and this is exactly why it would be madness to buy these pits and pipes as is current Liberal National Party policy on NBN. I note these comments didn’t make the paper.

  85. egg permalink
    May 31, 2013 1:35 pm

    ‘you are sceptical because your research/knowledge is way more credible than the experts in the field?’

    Did you know 97% of scientists believe in AGW? Stick your answer up in the back room, so we don’t offend the blogmasta.

  86. IPAddress permalink
    May 31, 2013 2:02 pm

    Under the Rules of the New Racism devised by our ethical, moral and intellectual betters, only “people of colour” may take offence. White people of the dominant culture can just harden the fuck up.

  87. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 31, 2013 2:28 pm

    Did you know 97% of scientists believe in AGW? Stick your answer up in the back room, so we don’t offend the blogmasta.

    I think that was my point

    Not sure I even understand the question and it’s inference, but feel no wish to go into the basement where the crazy man runs amok, scrawling all over the walls with his own faeces. Not interested in any of your pseudo science or gish gallop research/opinion from the conspiracy theorists.

    Who are these racists? How do you know what they think?

    dunno about you, but I meet them often, they feel a need to tell me what they think about different people as if there is an automatic agreement due to sharing the same white skin colour and when challenged there is usually offence taken as if they have just been victimised or it’s the ‘just joking’ excuses.

    I’m also not going to chase down silly red herrings sb, where I have to know what each and every individual racist thinks.

    if you want definitions and info, google is your friend!

    or info

    http://www.uws.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/173635/NationalLevelFindingsV1.pdf

    http://www.uws.edu.au/ssap/school_of_social_sciences_and_psychology/research/challenging_racism/findings_by_region

  88. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 31, 2013 2:52 pm

    White people of the dominant culture can just harden the fuck up.

    Of course any white person on the receiving end of racist abuse and smears is justified in being offended. How often does that happen in comparison with racist behaviours and attitudes from the white majority?

    never heard of white privilege?

    more dr google

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

  89. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 31, 2013 3:21 pm

    “I’m also not going to chase down silly red herrings sb, where I have to know what each and every individual racist thinks.”

    If you are going to call someone out for what they allegedly think, it helps to know what they are actually thinking. Drive-by smackdowns don’t really add much to the discussion.

    People are various and treating them all the same is just another form of ugly stereotyping.

  90. egg permalink
    May 31, 2013 4:11 pm

    ‘…scrawling all over the walls with his own faeces.’

    Colourful words, your day will eventually dawn and I will be liberated.

  91. egg permalink
    May 31, 2013 6:13 pm

    ‘In the wake of Eddie McGuire’s comments about Adam Goodes, Fairfax Media had a huge response on Thursday to its story ‘Are you a casual racist?’.

    ‘A number of readers had questions or comments about what they did and didn’t see as racism.

    ‘Professor Shane Houston, who was quoted in the story, has responded to some of these questions and comments below.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/is-it-racist-to–your-racism-questions-answered-20130531-2ngcy.html#ixzz2Ur856xkl

  92. June 2, 2013 5:46 pm

    Did you know 97% of scientists
    believe in AGW? Do Science.?
    *******
    Stick your answer up in the back room,
    so we don’t offend the blogmasta.
    Bend Over.

  93. TB Queensland permalink
    June 2, 2013 5:56 pm

    LOL!~

  94. June 2, 2013 6:35 pm

    armchair_ ” heard of white privilege? “
    sorry armchair, not really with you on this one.
    `White privilege` is a bit like `glass-ceiling` and is used by the chattering class who is reasonably well off financially, to justify or ease conscience or divide the financially lower class, that the war is always waged against by the rich. Just as `glass-ceiling` is always bellowed by the feminista`s, while totally ignoring 99% of males are below the glass ceiling and equally powerless in the corporate structure. White privilege is being used like-wise.
    Yes. They both exist. But the money trail needs to be fully followed before either can be declared with certainty.

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