Where is Tony Abbott?
July 5, 2013
Police hold grave fears for missing politician.
The Australian mainstream media is concerned for the safety and wellbeing of Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott who mysteriously disappeared from public view on June 26.
The affable Opposition Leader, known for his good humour and philanthropy hasn’t been seen for over a week, coinciding with the timing of Kevin Rudd regaining the leadership of the Labor Party.
Fears were raised when Mr Abbott failed to show up to an interview on the ABC’s Current Affairs program the 7:30 Report.
Since then he hasn’t been seen publicly at all, with some now speculating that he’s become a recluse.
Anyone who knows the whereabouts of Mr Abbott are encouraged to contact Crimestoppers on 1300 FIND TONY.
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theguttertrash.com 
Members of the public are warned he is considered smarmed and disingenous, and should not be approached by anyone seeking to ask him a question.
Tim and Julia are still at The Lodge and have apparently been sleeping rough.
‘dyed brown’? I thought it was looking a bit matt.
It would be simply terrible if he was found at the bottom of a mineshaft. Just awful.
Rumour has it he’s been out shopping for a set of
ballspolicies.His whole ‘Keeping My Mouth Shut & My Head Below The Parapets’ strategy may have been neutralised in the last fortnight.
The worst thing Abbott can do for his chances is to appear in public & speak with forked tongue more often.
*btw, he isn’t really 180cm, is he? I’d not have thought so.
You lot all have no understanding of strategy, since Rudd dispatched Gillard he has been running around like a headless chook doing his very best “super Kevin” act and Tony Abbott is quite wisely letting Kevin wear him self out as Rudd does a good job of proving that he has not changed at all since he was stabbed in the back by his party.
Yep !
The voters will be reminded of whats on his CV in due course.
He hasn’t changed one bit and Abbott’s line will be
“If you vote for Rudd as PM who will you get in 6 months time”.
Abbott seems to dye his hair and applies fake tan. That’s not suitable for a male political leader.
Agree Tom. It is not seemly. I think he has started to look a bit like Shane Warne. A bit celluloid.
Yes Dianne, though he may start to look more like Liz Hurly than Shane if he overdoes the tanning and dying.
——————-
I’m back from my surf safari and finding the weather a little bothersome, though it does suit a good red.
‘You lot all have no understanding of strategy,’
It doesn’t matter what we think, the electorate expect him to debate Rudd next week otherwise they’ll mark the catlick dog botherer down.
A kind of Liz Burly. Oh my dear!
Why next week Egg? Btw did you all see that pres u d o no has stated clearly that boats cannot be towed back to Indonesia. I think TA was saying otherwise just yesterday. Did Rudd set a trap with all the talk of conflict withbjakarta?
They need to find Mr-Rabbit, he is their Leader.
The teabags won`t know how to run their 3rd-term opposition without their Leader.
There will be terrible trouble in the warren if that comes to pass 7.30.
“Btw did you all see that pres u d o no has stated clearly that boats cannot be towed back to Indonesia.”
Where did he say that ?
I have been a bit slack. Don’t think he said it directly at oz-indo leadership meeting.
Acc to Greg Sheridan in Oz, lead story on sat ,the joint communique after summit reflects ‘Indonesia’s disdain for Opposition Leader’s turn-back-the-boats policy’
Furthermore the communique stated:
[rudd and udeono]’ stressed the importance of avoiding unilateral actions which might jeopardize such a comprehensive regional approach and which might cause operational or other difficulties to any party’.
Acc to Sheridan ‘Indonesian officials made clear that communique point was intended to be read as rejection of [TA’s] approach, which would involve escorting asylum-seekers back to Indonesian waters.’
What I said but more tactfully.
Greg Sheridan in today’s Oz………
“THERE is no scenario under which Indonesia could plausibly object to Tony Abbott’s boats turn-around policy and Kevin Rudd is highly irresponsible in his continued efforts to create a diplomatic row between Jakarta and the opposition.
The joint declaration between Rudd and Indonesia’s President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono does not remotely change that.”
Interesting Walrus.
Walrus Scott Morrison has told Sky news that Abbott govt would send in SAS to force boats back to Indonesia. Abbott says he does not want to ‘get into operational matters’. Using the military. Mmmm
Rudd can interpret it as he likes but it does not clash with Coalition policy. It basically says don’t make a decision to turn back a boat without consulting with us (Indonesia) first.
In fact they would possibly allow it to happen on a co-ordinated/planned scale whereby a few boats are made examples of at the extreme limits of Indonesian territorial waters and see what happens. Toss in a few extra $Million per boat the Indons way and voila………………co-operation.
After all Indonesia wants to stop refugees camping themselves in Indonesia as well.
That said I don’t think S Morrison should have been blathering about the SAS. tA and Julie Bishop seem to be backing away from such remarks. You can’t accuse Rudd about stirring up conflict with nearest neighbor and then talk about the SAS.
Clarification Walrus: Morrison wants to use SAS to help merchant vessels return rescued asylum seekers to Indonesia. tampaesque.
Stop Press: now TA is saying his govt will use SAS to turn back asylum seeker boats. That is from that paper of impeccable record, the Daily Tele.
You can’t accuse Rudd about stirring up conflict with nearest neighbor and then talk about the SAS.
exactly dianne, they contradict everything they say from one day to the next. How can they be taken seriously when they simply haven’t a clue, it’s all about populist politics, propagandising and chest beating.
The AFP directly sabataging boats, SAS commandos standing over civilians and desperate refugees [who happen to be human beings] seeking sanctuary. Official bribery and corruption, illegal acts under immunity from prosecution, the same old liberal party MO. There’s nothing like a good old liberal party fascist regime!
SAS Regiment are elite, covert operatives generally not seen in open conflicts (Afghanistan has been a little different – mainly because fo the firefights) … to use them in the way that Abbott and Morrison are suggesting (and Howard did) demonstrates their ignorance in the extreme … coming close behind (as elite troops) are the 1st & 2nd Commando Regiment (originally 4 RAR) are used in conventional warfare for “secret operations” and small raids … and then the paratroopers from 3 RAR …
Quite frankly none of these elite organisations should be used in refugee/asylum seeker situations as Abbott and Morrison suggest (and Howard enacted) … a truly extreme and silly use of troops considered the best in the world by their international peers …
If anything we should consider beefing up our border security services … we are dealing with civilians … economic refugees or not …
Could you imagine Obama sending in US Navy Seals to serve on the Mexican border? That’s how stupid this proposal is …
I know Abbott & The Acolytes want to appear tough but like all bullies they don’t want to get hurt themselves … let someone else do the dirty work …
If anything we should consider beefing up our border security services … we are dealing with civilians … economic refugees or not …
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3u9ejs/
I know, we could put abbott’s army to good use, they won’t do anything useful about climate change but they could all hold hands around the shoreline of our island country. Whenever a boat is sighted, kommander abbott is alerted by his special boat phone and he will be on the first navy frigate out. The order to fire upon the boat will of course be made by a person who will remain a mystery, accepting all responsibility and accountability [the brandis protocol] .
http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=22854#.UdpHP_l4Tds
It certainly smacks of overkill Armchair and Teeb and they can’t even get their message straight. I have heard two accounts today. 1. SAS to board merchant ships to repel dissent among rescued asylum seekers who do not wish to return to Indonesia. 2. SAS to turn back asylum seeker boats to Indonesia. Maybe it is not either/or but both/AND? I wonder what the SAS make of all this?
Whenever a boat is sighted, kommander abbott is alerted by his special boat phone …
I think the way Abbott’s Acolytes think this might be more appropriate (and user friendly) …
They could then be used for witch burning … might come back with godbotherers running the joint …
I wonder what the SAS make of all this?
I’d have a pretty good idea (as I shake my head)
It seems this post has become topical again…
ABBOTT’S SECRET STATE…
http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/abbotts-secret-state,5870
Our leader is recuperating after stumbling…
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/pm-stumbling-around-the-international-stage-20131105-2wz4q.html
Just read ABBOTT’S SECRET STATE …
At least the journo’s are awakening!
I watched Mark Textor last night on Lateline … I found many of his comments contradictory to say the least … he is obviously a fan of The Art of War …
But add to that the farce that is now the ALP (and silent partner to the government – no questioning from the Opposition either!) and what have we ended up with … a hijacked democracy?
This is all coupled with the need for Robber Barons to control what is happening in the Western democracies right now so that they can influence the economies that are crumbling …
… there was a strange belief (relief?) that when Communism in Russia failed that it signalled that the command system was a failure (and it was!) but that capitalism was obviously the successful economic model (it was/isn’t!)….
… Western economies are constantly failing and needing to be replenished by money from the people, not from The Robber Baron corporations and banks making obscene profits (and too big to fail???) but the money of ordinary folk …
We need a better political AND economic system for ALL not just the takers!
egg, you may recall I predicted just such stumbling and bumbling if Abbott & The Acolytes won office …
The trade agreements always bother me … because we end up personally paying the cost!
And what’s happened to Bill Shorten? He’s vanished too…
“We need a better political AND economic system for ALL not just the takers!”
Paraphrasing Churchill: Capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others that have ever been tried.
LOL
A Leftie academic still thrashing around in a pool of denial.
Firstly he says Abbott has blundered because he didn’t Stop the Boats. Rudd’s PNG solution deserves all the credit for that. How amusing
Second blunder is that he has put a deadline on an FTA with China. So it’s a blunder to have a target these days. That never stiopped the ALP from announcing deadline after deadline for a Budget Surplus.
So this Fucktard of an academic calls it a blunder before the self imposed dealine is up. What a prized Fuckwit.
The Third blunder is that he is risking us being involved in an all out war with China.
Well I do hope that’s after the upcoming war we are due to have with Indonesia that Rudd predicted.
The author Raoul Heinrichs is an ex advisor to Foreign Affairs expert and former PM Kevin (“the Chinese have Rat Fucked Us”) Rudd when he was in Opposition. Who would have thought he could bury his partisanship soooooooooo well.
Truly I wouldn’t feed this c*nt cow manure let alone pay him a salary.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘At least the journo’s are awakening!’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
Don`t count on it.
They are still in denial that the teabags have `played` the lot of`em so spectacularly.
And rewarded`em with a `lock-out`.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘And what’s happened to Bill Shorten? He’s vanished too’ ‘ ‘ ‘
lf smart (which l`m not counting on) this lot should lay-low and let fool-media work itself into it`s own foaming hysteria over the teabags `lock-out`.
.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘egg, you may recall I predicted just such stumbling and bumbling if Abbott & The Acolytes won office’ ‘ ‘ ‘ yes, you/we did (ditto) similar lines
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‘ ‘ ‘ ‘The trade agreements always bother me _ because we end up personally paying the cost!’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Ditto too. Each one guarantees we lose. Yet again.
This weeks summary, Holden going from SA. Caterpillar going from Tassie. Aussie coastal freight `opened` to foreign competition, thus we`re fcuked again by 10-cents/hour pay-rates. *Canberra-Dickheads-R-Us*
Walrus didn`t reference anything at 5.04,
What`s he blubbering about.?
And what’s happened to Bill Shorten? He’s vanished too…
Indeed, sreb … as I wrote above …
“But add to that the farce that is now the ALP (and silent partner to the government – no questioning from the Opposition either!)”
____________________________________________
Paraphrasing Churchill: Capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others that have ever been tried.
Paraphrase all you want … we still need a better system … Churchill was landed fkn gentry (have you visited Blenheim Place?) his … and an imperialist … made the most atrocious decidons and cost the lives of thousands of people through is arrogance and ignorance … he thought he was another Duke of Marlborough … and that he was not!
————————————————————————–
Yep, get’s a bit disheartening, 711 … 😦
What`s he blubbering about.?
Isn’t that what walrus’ss do? 🙄
“Walrus didn`t reference anything at 5.04,”
LOL…………………..out of practice I suppose 7:30
I’m referring to Egg’s Canberra Times link
I must say 730 given my recent return from the Land of Tea (Sri Lanka) I would have thought you could have perhaps drawn a link between that and “Tea Baggery”………………….What’s up with yer these days ?????????????????
LOL
‘egg, you may recall I predicted just such stumbling and bumbling if Abbott & The Acolytes won office …’
And it was a sure bet, he’s still a novice.
And so is Julie Bishop. She’s just a shambles.
It really is quite embarrassing. No wonder they’ve all been gagged.
No wonder they’ve all been gagged.
I wish …!
‘egg, you may recall I predicted just such stumbling and bumbling if Abbott & The Acolytes won office …’
As opposed to the absolute stability and professionalism of the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd era
LOL
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘And so is Julie Bishop. She’s just a shambles.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
l agree reb.
And she has been a shambles was highlighted when she claimed it was OK/normal to allow lsrael to fcuk around with Aust passports for mossad/spooks, potentially turning any random traveling Aussie into another Gitmo-type victim.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘from the Land of Tea (Sri Lanka)’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
.
l`m not sure we can go about mocking other countries.
Not after what we just elected.
.
“Paraphrase all you want … we still need a better system”
Such as?
Utopian Socialism.
“The trade agreements always bother me _ because we end up personally paying the cost!”
I really must disagree, if by “we” you mean we the consumer. It is the consumer that pays when protectionism is enforced, and it is vested interests such as certain business groups and unions/unionised workforces that reap the rewards. Have you thought about how expensive cars here would be had Hawke/Keating not instituted the Button plan of progressively removing tarriffs? Instead they are the cheapest as a multiple/fraction of the average weekly/annual wage they have been in 30 years. Giving consumers the freedom to choose from all markets, not just our own sheltered
workshopone, benefits we the little people.OMG, IPA actually expressed an opinion.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘OMG, IPA actually expressed an opinion.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Actually reb, lpad`osy merely regurgitated a version of teabag-theory and false-economy.
.
As more of the workforce is thrown out of full-time, quality jobs that allow the worker/consumer to have some `disposable`income, and are move into sub-prime employment where the worker/consumer pays only essential bills, the internal market-place shrinks. l know it, as l live it. Hence folks like me don`t spend money on movies, restaurants and non-essential goods/services. By the way, we get quite resourceful by salvaging things like white-goods, TV`s and computers. Beer can be home-brewed, veggies grown in garden.
.
40% of workforce now casual etc, don`t get holiday benefits, not full-time also reduces superannuation capability and ensures pensioners. *false-economy-from-many-angles*
As lpad`osy chortles for uber-kapitalism,
he points to the basket-case auto-industry, which has successfully extorted out of spineless politicians of both flavors, State/s and Federal `gifts` for tokyo and detroit, but chooses to infer unions and `greedy`workers.
Prise them open, lpad`osy.
While shit-kicking blue-collars, folks like lpad`osy come down with a dose of `eyes-wide-shut` and ignores all the back-office work shifted off-shore(india) and the security-loss that goes along with it(banking/super-details) and the reliance of off-shore slavery and sweat-shops, including child-slave workers.
.
Can uber-kapitalism survive without these.?
Can leftism survive without its hatred of capitalism? Same old same old. All Marx’s theories have been disproven yet they are dressed up (in Marx’s native language) as something new and somehow different: it’s now uber-(k)capitalism that is evil. *eye roll*
ln an infered defence of uber-kapitalism,
our lpad`osy comes up with,
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Paraphrasing Churchill: Capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others that have ever been tried.’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
but did Churchill advocate `not` to protect `their` capitalist system.?
Our political dumb-fcuks are dismantling our system. (teh-usa_too)
China (and to some extent india) is creating/trying to make a `strong` system.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Can leftism survive’ ‘ ‘ ‘
WRONG. l am neither a `Lefty` nor care if Lefty-bullshit survives.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘hatred of capitalism?’ ‘ ‘ ‘
WRONG. l don`t `hate` capitalism, just acknowledge it is yet another `failed` ideology for the masses.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘All Marx’s theories’ ‘ ‘ ‘
WRONG. l don`t support nor care about wind-bag marx.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘it’s now uber-(k)capitalism’ ‘ ‘ ‘
for your petty comfort lpad`osy, replace `uber-kapitalism` with `teabag-lunacy`
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘that is evil. *eye roll*’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
that is totally stoopid ‘ 🙄 ‘ 🙄 ‘ 🙄
.
Let me guess, another tertiary educated young Lib fleeing the facts.?
Churchill was speaking about democracy, not capitalism, and I agree with him that it’s a flawed system, but a better one escapes me for the moment.
“Ignores all the back-office work shifted off-shore(india) and the security-loss that goes along with it(banking/super-details) and the reliance of off-shore slavery and sweat-shops, including child-slave workers.”
For the umpteenth time, “sweat-shop” workers and “child-slaves” are not doing these jobs against their will. It is preferable to the alternative, which, in most cases, is no job at all, or, at best, some kind of subsistence agriculture. But comfortably living bleeding hearts would prefer they didn’t have such a choice. When the foreign companies are brow-beaten into shutting shop who will be the winners? Certainly not your so called sweat shop workers or child slaves.
“for your petty comfort lpad`osy, replace `uber-kapitalism` with `teabag-lunacy`”
Call it what you like, it’s the left’s enemy du jour.
‘Can leftism survive without its hatred of capitalism?’
Extremely doubtful.
‘ ‘ ‘Churchill was speaking about democracy, not capitalism,’ ‘ ‘
now fleeing your 5.01 quote l see
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘and I agree with him that it’s a flawed system,’ ‘ ‘
ditto to both
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘but a better one escapes me for the moment.’ ‘ ‘
better not look at China
.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Extremely doubtful.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Pensions are a kommunist plot.
Still on the Teat egg.?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Call it what you like,’ ‘ ‘
insanity
.
‘ ‘ ‘it’s the left’s enemy du jour.’ ‘ ‘
too bad most citizens are reasonably `central`, but your own lunacy from far-right, sees everything else as `teh-left`
“now fleeing your 5.01 quote l see”
*eye roll* Surely you can’t be serious? I clearly stated I was paraphrasing Churchill, making the point that you can criticise capitalism (democracy, in Churchill’s actual quote) all you like but do you have a better idea?* (Apparently both you and TB took it as a direct quote and needed correcting.)
*You’ve now come up with China as a shining light. Guffaw!
“too bad most citizens are reasonably `central`”
Yes they are, whatever that is, and are living comfortably and happily under our – horror of horrors – capitalist system. But your spouting all the leftist talking points doesn’t place you left of centre? Oookayyyy.
“better not look at China”
Why, because then I might notice the political prisoners, state-run media, internet censorship, pollution, forced abortions, forced population movement, multi-billionaire party leaders (and their wealthy family members), that kind of thing?
IPA is a clear winner over the hapless leftoids, with our petit chou’s debating style leaving a lot to be desired.
Wrong, wrong and wrong again!
Can leftism survive without its hatred of capitalism? Same old same old.
I am a believer in capitalism … I was a smal business owner for 16 years! it allowed me to retire at 59!
I am not a leftist … if anything I am a realist … I don’t like extremes of either right or left … and my politics are shaped by what I consider fair to most people … not a privileged few …
But the sentence you wrote above actually AGREES with my sentiment …
… Uber Kapitalism where the greedy are given open slather to rob, pillage and plunder … because the people’s voice – a duly elected government – is incompetent or bought off or just plain frightened (certain financial institutions it seems are too big to fail – so the people’s money must be given to pay them not to fail …
… you quote Hawke/Keating (the most productive government in my lifetime) and since then there has not been one competent government for the people and business … business has hikacked the whole politico/economic system!
We need a new, better, fairer system … some things need to be supplied under a command system health, power, education etc … the rest capitalism … look to China for leadership (try to put aside you obsession with Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Bolshies, Commos etc) and look at how our system can improve for the good of the country not just massively obscene profits for The Robber Barons … I see a push now for a “revision” of the GST … why it only attacks the low income, poor, fixed income and elderly with little disposable income … GST is designed for to garner more tax “fairly” we are told … if you want it to be fair — leave the GST alone, stop all the middle class welfare and increase income tax to where it should be …
Stroking the hand of capitalism too much creates an unfair society … an unfair society simply falls apart – most Empires fail because of lopsided power and control … have a quick look at Detroit and other major cities in the USA …
It’s not leftist thinking its simply stating the bleedin’ obvious …
All Marx’s theories have been disproven yet they are dressed up (in Marx’s native language) as something new and somehow different: it’s now uber-(k)capitalism that is evil. *eye roll*
Uber Kapitalism is simply allowing the capitalists to play viking with our societies … rape, pillage and plunder as our leaders just attempt to placate them (eg the GFC) with gifts … nothing has changed since 2008 … WHY!
Marx isn’t the answer nor is any capitalist theory …
As for China … do we have a government at all?
‘As for China … do we have a government at all?’
Its a Kapitalist dictatorship with Communist leanings, the middle way.
“have a quick look at Detroit”
That is exactly what happens when unions are let off the leash and send the employers bankrupt. That sort of cosy crony capitalism will always fail. In the end the government can’t keep on bailing out the auto industry just to lavish benefits on unionists.
“Marx isn’t the answer nor is any capitalist theory …”
Idiotic false equivalence arguments are certainly not the answer. Marxism has brought with it poverty misery and death on a massive scale wherever it has been tried. Capitalism has a track record of dragging people out of poverty. Capitalism promotes liberty whereas Marxism promotes tyranny, which is implicit in Marxist economic coercion.
All the “Robber Barons” blathering is the purist shite. Envy-based zero-sum games are great for stirring up the mob and very bad for society.
The proper role of government in economics is to facilitate the operation of free markets. That includes measures to ensure competition is maximised. Good governments make laws to ensure rights to private property and to enforce commercial bargains, as well as consumer protection laws. If and when and to the extent governments get the system right and wealth is generated then they can think about welfare spending. Leftists generally have this arse-up. They have not a clue about generating wealth and infinitely infantile visions of spending other peoples’ money.
The reason the country is so badly in debt is that Labor idiots went on a spending binge without a thought for how to pay for it. Any idea where we are going to get $250 billion of surpluses any time soon? Or is that a problem you would rather bequeath to your grand-children?
The proper role of government in economics is to facilitate the operation of free markets.
Show me one …
And once again lift your blinders … the system WE have now is failing … WE need to DEVISE a NEW one … fuck the Marxist shite and fuck the capitalist shite …
Unions don’t fail companies, nor does welfare to the needy … poor management does … and I’ve been a member of both sides …
What’s your track record, sb … ’cause it sounds very academic to me …
You can cling to the rat race the Yanks (in particular) have created or seek to modify/design a better one …
Or is that a problem you would rather bequeath to your grand-children?
Different standards too I see? How come your children are out of bounds but mine aren’t? 🙄
‘His ultra-low profile since becoming PM has raised eyebrows, but we may finally have an explanation.’
SMH
‘ ‘ ‘*You’ve now come up with ‘ ‘ ‘China as a shining light’ ‘ ‘
China is buying up assets, our fools are flogging-off the silverware.
Never claimed `shining-light` lpad`osy,
if you were smarter, you would realize l don`t subscribe to to doctrines and guru`s.
.
.
“too bad most citizens are reasonably `central`”
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Yes they are, whatever that is,’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Thinks for for self, not rusted to Left/Right clap-trap.
.
.
*better not look at China*
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Why, because then I might notice the political prisoners, state-run media, internet censorship, pollution, forced abortions, forced population movement,_’ ‘ ‘
Shall we give lpad`osy his `humanitarian` award now or wait till later.?
Even tho lpad`osy see`s no problem with child-slaves and sweat-shop desperado`s.
Any work is better than no work if your survival depends on it, but hopefully over the next century we can eliminate child slavery from the face of the planet.
“Show me one …”
Show me a perfect anything. What is your point exactly? My was that there is no comparison between capitalist economies and Marxism. Nothing you have said contradicts this.
Capitalism is the major reason people have been lifted out of poverty. The conditions of ordinary people in capitalist societies have risen dramatically since the eighteenth century. Without the advent of capitalism everybody would be a lot worse off. By comparison, Marxism is the reason 100 million people were murdered last century.
“the system WE have now is failing … WE need to DEVISE a NEW one … “
This has been the cry of arrogant charlatans for centuries. They actually delude themselves that they can DEVISE a new system. History is littered with their failed attempts which inevitably bring poverty and oppression in short order. No one is smart enough to devise a new system, although plenty of people are arrogant enough to believe they can.
In fact we have a system which is, in broad terms, as good as any other going around and we are as well off as at any time in our short history. That is not to say that it can’t be improved. The best way to do that is to make modest changes to address particular problems and try to learn some lessons from what others have done. What we definitely should not do is “DEVISE a NEW one”.
“What’s your track record, sb … ’cause it sounds very academic to me …”
Who gives a shit? All you want the info for is to start using ad hom arguments rather than actually arguing with the points I make. Anyway, for the record, I grew up in a small business family and started work in it when I was a kid. When we sold the family business I paid for all of the employees to join a union so they would have some protection in case the new owner did not treat them well. The first thing the union rep said, as he collected the cheque, was “If you have any trouble with the workers give me a call. We’ll sort it out”. The union was effectively a Labor Right fiefdom. Some things never change.
I went to uni in my late 20s and worked to support my family while I studied. In that time I joined a union and manned a picket line (and saw a leftist ‘mate’ cross the line he needed the money, as if I didn’t). At uni I learned (after a brief flirtation with the left) that leftists are, by and large, dishonest or dumb and frequently both. I haven’t seen anything since which changes that view. Most of my life has been spent owning and running a business. Now I’m older I’ve sold out and do some consulting. I haven’t got a lot to show financially, I own my own house and have a little put away.
The main enterprise of my life has been working with my wife in raising a large family (a threefold increase on Costello’s suggestion) and seeing they are well educated. I’m proud of them all.
“How come your children are out of bounds but mine aren’t?”
Hypersensitive today, aren’t we? That is just false equivalence again. My comment was generic – inter-generational theft affects everybody’s grandchildren, including yours and mine, which was obviously my point. What I didn’t do, and what you did, was to say something along the lines of “You really are a nasty peice of work … I feel for your children, I really do …”.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘The proper role of government in economics is to facilitate the operation of free markets.’ ‘ ‘ ‘ (just-teabag-theory)
‘
The proper role of government IN A SO-CALLED DEMOCRACY, is to manage and represent ALL citizens and issues, fairly and equitably in an as INFORMED manner possible, and doing the best they can to keep COMMITMENTS made in the election process.
Those bloody unions hey!
News released on the 27th October comes as a bitter blow for those that like their two door cars with a huge boot; Holden has decided, along with Ford, that the humble yet much loved ute will cease to be from 2016. To blame are a number of factors but chief amongst them appears to be our free trade agreement with Thailand, where the majority of our traybacked vehicles are sourced from.
“Any work is better than no work if your survival depends on it”
That’s exactly how the Liberals like everyone to think – your very survival depends on it…
We’re already well on the way to having a workforce of people holding down multiple part time jobs to make ends meet…
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYbd3gzCAAAzgjP.jpg:large
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘chief amongst them appears to be our free trade agreement with Thailand, where the majority of our traybacked vehicles are sourced from.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘
Caterpillar (trucks, diggers, graders) are going to Thailand too TB, they are dumping their Tassie operations/plant.
Show me a perfect anything.
That was my point … it needs repairing or changing … change is nigh impossible but maybe we can improve what we have … it may lift some people out of poverty but it is also shoving many back!
What is your point exactly? My was that there is no comparison between capitalist economies and Marxism. Nothing you have said contradicts this.
If you bother to read any of my posts above … my point is that NEITHER system is working … I’m NOT comparing marxism with capitalism … you are.
Apologies for being an arrogant charlatan … 😯 But I’m not suggesting anything …
Devise actually means plan OR invent …
In fact we have a system which is, in broad terms, as good as any other going around and we are as well off as at any time in our short history.
Do you remember 2008?
At uni I learned (after a brief flirtation with the left) that leftists are, by and large, dishonest or dumb and frequently both.
Well you accuse me of being left quite a lot so I guess that explains why you get into such a lather over my posts … and I’d hate to start using ad hom arguments so I’ll refrain fom engagement in future …
FYI
My politics came from being a member of the workforce that got screwed by management … and eventually becoming a manager myself and promising myself that I would not do that to anyone working with me … I was considered to be (I was told) fair but no-nonsense … and luckily for me my troops would follow me into hell! I left school at 14 1/2 so no high faluting education for me … an apprenticeship, some lucky breaks and a business mentor who convinced me I needed to study … I studied management at UniSA by distance and graduated in 1992, BBus…. and paid college union dues 🙄
Hypersensitive today, aren’t we? Just a little ironic jest I should have know better …
Unfortunately, I can’t resist TDT, I shall continue to cast my opinions about here … like it or not.
Enjoy!
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘We’re already well on the way to having a workforce of people holding down multiple part time jobs to make ends meet’ ‘ ‘ ‘
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYbd3gzCAAAzgjP.jpg:large
TRUE. Corporations have successfully extorted Govt`s for gifts/loop-holes regarding non-full-time workers, which in many cases has resulted in each full-time job being `chopped-up` into 3-non-full-time jobs.
Nice graph reb-a-roo. 🙂
TB, I don’t think you are a leftist and I haven’t called you a leftist on this or any other thread. You are fairly well rusted on Labor, but that isn’t a crime.
“Devise actually means plan OR invent …”
Precisely my point. Anyone who thinks they can plan or invent a new system is at best deluded. Making incremental adjustments to the existing system is quite another matter and probably what you actually meant.
… and probably what you actually meant.
It probably is … silly me …
You are fairly well rusted on Labor, but that isn’t a crime.
What a fkn relief!
“I shall continue to cast my opinions about here … like it or not.”
Excellent TB! That’s precisely what this place is all about…..! 🙂
“reb-a-roo”
😆
I must confess to being a great big fan of the Pommie show Would I Lie to You … if anyone is curious about my sense of humour amd sarcasm … its a really good place to start … !
‘Tis a fab show … even better than QI and that’s saying sumfink!
(Rustedons?)
I rest my case … Noddy Newman won office because we needed to “balance the books” … so how can he give Queenslander’s money away to Robber Barons with a straight face …
More Klingon lies …
http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/queensland-government-offers-discount-royalty-rates-to-mining-companies-opening-up-business-in-galilee-basin/story-fnii5v6w-1226754868542
Meta, a key to that link is knowledge, skill and experience … sadly lacking in many management teams …
I did alot of management training with an international mining company … when asked, by the learning manager, if I had noticed any standout issues in the teams i had worked with I promptly said … they don’t know how to plan … they had too …
If you can’t plan strategy and then tactically … nothing happens …
A managers role consists of four pillars – planning, leading, organising and controlling … making some of the stay at home mums I know some of the best managers in the country!
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘knowledge, skill and experience _ sadly lacking in many management teams’ ‘ ‘
.
True, agree.
l reckon `care` should be one of the buzz-words on your list tho.
Too often, management/boardroom errors cost coal-face workers `their`job, even tho the coal-face workers were fully competent/timely/professional/hard-working, while those `above` retained their job. This also seems to have got worse over the years.
‘That’s exactly how the Liberals like everyone to think – your very survival depends on it…’
That’s a bit harsh and wide of the mark. What has happened over the past 20 years is that a lot of the workforce has become de-unionised, which leaves them vulnerable.
Changing technology and a competitive market means managers have to be ruthless to save their own jobs. One tactic of business owners is to sack everyone and reemploy half of them at a lower rate.
Care??? Wishful thinking, methinks … I did meet a lot of managers who DID know what they were doing … but having lived through two takeovers (companies I worked for taken over) it really does becomes every person for themselve
One of the reasons I always wanted to work for myself … at least I could steer my own ship … there were still icebergs but at least I knew the captain wasn’t a Dickhead® … 😉 😛
… a lot of the workforce has become de-unionised, which leaves them vulnerable.
… vulnerable to? Begins with E has XP in the middle and ends in N … 🙄
The chase for profit is endless … some management “schools” advocate 10% on last years profit … it becomes unsustainable … the retail industry goes into a mad flap if sales are down 1% … most of them don’t understand turnover, only profiteering …
‘… vulnerable to?’
The vagaries of the free enterprise system, supply and demand, where the human component (let’s call them widgets) will be less in demand as robots take their place.
By robots I mean new technologies which make the workforce redundant.
You mean like computers? That actually created more jobs than they destroyed … 🙂
‘ ‘ ‘That’s a bit harsh’ ‘ ‘
Says the unproductive, past his use-by date, nipple recipient, who probably gets 130-buck more per week, than my recently retrenched, productive, working friend.
That`s harsh, and equality needs to be restored. We know which direction this will go under Mr-Rabbits zombies.
+
+
‘ ‘ ‘managers have to be ruthless to save their own jobs.’ ‘ ‘
And it rarely works. Worked with several of these type of stupid-fcuks over the years, often nearly in tears as they recite how after they sacked all the plebs `they` would be secure in another position in a sideways promotion, which never materialized, as once they don`t have the workforce, they don`t need the manager. ldiots.
+
+
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘sack everyone and reemploy half of them at a lower rate.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Yeah, seen this too, fail spectacularly about 4or5 times now.
Profitable Businesses chugging along nicely, get greedy, when they have tried to re-hire their people, too late, competition has`em. ldiots. Then business spends years struggling, l know one folded.
TB, egg means mechanization included.
Which always takes-out more jobs than `new-tech`creates,
think of cane-cutters, 100`s if not 1000`s Verses `Cane-Harvester`,
if you went job by job, very few if any created more jobs than lost.
‘We know which direction this will go under Mr-Rabbits zombies.’
They need do nothing and the market will take care of itself.
————
‘You mean like computers?’
No, other technological advancements. As an simple example, retail shops are slowly becoming redundant, along with their staff, because there is a more efficient way to buy product.
I think 7.30 has it.
When ‘talkies’ came in, piano players all around the world lost their jobs. That’s the free market, coupled with the hectic pace of technological change.
‘Says the unproductive, past his use-by date, nipple recipient, who probably gets 130-buck more per week, than my recently retrenched, productive, working friend.’
Hmmm….. In very small business there are no wage slaves, only slaves who don’t get pocket money or holidays and on call seven days a week.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘You mean like computers?’ ‘ ‘ ‘
l suspect if you researched it TB,
computers will have removed more jobs, than created.
Office Typing-pools, gone. Printing lndustry Trades, Largely gone. etc Many fewer accountants using spread-sheets and databases.
Yeah sure, lbm and Micro$oft went from a couple of dozen workers to a thousand, each, building the hardware and software, while what they built removed factory jobs via automation. Tens of thousands of jobs lost forever from auto assembly lines and machine shops. Now, relatively low-skilled, lesser paid people are basically `loaders` of machines. One person will operate several mills, lathes etc, who removes `finished` item, loads `blank` into lathe, shuts the guard, hits the `run` button. Next machine. Repeat.
Many fewer accountants using spread-sheets and databases. Compared to traditional calculating and `book-keeping`.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘In very small business there are no wage slaves, only slaves who don’t get pocket money or holidays and on call seven days a week.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘
l seem to remember somewhere you claiming to be an unproductive nipple recipient egg. Now you seem to be inferring you`re a biz-owner. l must say l find your promotion of austerity onto the workforce and decreasing the amount of worker/consumers that can be your customers, a most fascinating and unique biz-strategy.
Very small business never makes a profit and is essentially subsistence. I’m looking forward to Kitty’s revolution so that we might all be better off, but it appears more likely that a growing number of Australians will be reduced to my level.
Oddly, the thought is quite uplifting.
Car-makers are our hand looms:
“To blame are a number of factors but chief amongst them appears to be our free trade agreement with Thailand………..”
So that’s the latest excuse is it.
How about a dual cab 4WD Hilux being far more desirable than a 2WD hotted up Ford or Holden Ute ?
Drug used for lethal executions deemed “unsafe” by manufacturers….
Who knew?
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/secrets-of-the-execution-chamber-revealed/story-fnixwvgh-1226755634436
‘The rise of Thailand’s car industry is no accident. After Asia’s financial crisis in 1997 the country did away with much regulation in the sector; unlike in India or Malaysia, foreign firms do not need to enter joint ventures with local partners. Thailand’s Board of Investment offered generous incentives to produce eco-friendly cars. The government cut the corporate tax rate from 30% to 20%, below that of Indonesia, Malaysia and even Vietnam … Thailand’s “big three” manufacturers are Toyota, Isuzu and Honda. They mostly make pickups and smaller cars. But other brands are now following the Japanese firms and are shifting their production from increasingly pricey places, such as Australia, to Thailand.’
Would TB Queensland prefer Australian consumers were denied access to the Toyota HiLux, Mitsubishi Triton, Nissan Navara, Mazda BT50 and Ford Ranger, (plus myriad other passenger vehicles) all of which are built in Thailand? Or would he prefer they were given access, but at significantly higher tariff-inflated prices, in the name of “saving” a dying local car-manufacturing industry?
“If something cannot go on forever, it wil stop.” ~ Herbert Stein.
Now, relatively low-skilled, lesser paid people are basically `loaders` of machines.
That’s why competency based learning and assessment are so important … guess what majored in … and my consultancy was?
I might remind you all that if unemployment is 5.5% then 94.5% are employed – not necessarily full time I admit.
But as society changes new occupations arise … people in the 50’s had no idea how TV, radio, films, telephones and more particularly would impact on daily lives … as more women seek work (to pay off the mortgage!) then we need more child carers …
While robots in the mining industry will one day become the norm … mines will require more planners and maintenance staff … and drone operators to monitor processes …
Eventually we may become similar to the society in Star Trek when Picard explains that in the 24th Century no-one strives for personal possessions but simply to better themselves as a person … and no-one wants for anything …
As for accountants – we’ve always had too many of them anyway … and they can always find employment with Abbott’s Green Army … they could swallow up 30,000 easily … 😉
I’d sponsor Wally as a Team Leader … he’s worked in the bush building houses for people in need …(I just remembered that, Wally, it always impressed me) 🙂
and more particularly COMPUTERS would impact on daily lives 🙄
How about a dual cab 4WD Hilux being far more desirable than a 2WD hotted up Ford or Holden Ute ?
Yep, you and discussed this a little while back and I recall agree … and its not unions who decide what models will be produced …
The billions of dollars given to the car industry and bandied about on Lateline last night just shows we need to stop it and quickly …
My only concern would be a flashback to 1939 when we couldn’t manufacture a bloody rifle … let alone a tank … plane or ship … and all the lost manufacturing and production expertise ..
Would TB Queensland prefer …
A free market across the globe … but someone here mentioned we’ll never get perfection …
Australia has plenty of other specialities to offer the world … car manufacture obviously isn’t one of them … as an example we should be global leaders in solar energy systems … but who is it – Germany … we are letting our farming grind to a halt or be taken over by foreign investors … the money spent on the car industry has plenty of potential profit centres to assist …
What would ToSY prefer … access to a range of vehicles … tariffs?
Disclaimer: I spent 16 years working for Nissan and own a Hyundai …
‘as an example we should be global leaders in solar energy systems … ‘
The Chinese have already cornered that market.
The fact that wages are lower in poorer countries gives them a competitive advantage. The smart ones encourage foreign investors to set up businesses which benefits the local economy. Production increases, jobs are created and people become better off. And we get cheaper cars.
This is exactly how it should work. It is much better than giving foreign aid, the majority of which is spent on paying the victim pimps who administer the system. It takes a lot to keep a western bureaucrat in luxury accommodation in the third world. What doesn’t go on admin goes on corruption and fraction of the aid budget might eventually trickle down to those it was intended to help.
Only the victim pimps and dog-in-a-manger luddites squeal blue murder. Car workers who will eventually lose their jobs can start by blaming the unions who won such handsome conditions for them. This scam has gone on for so long only because governments have wasted taxpayers’ money, feeding to auto manufacturers who then divvy it up with the unions. Not only that but we pay tens of thousands of dollars extra for our cars due to the import duty.
In the meantime management has grown incompetent and flabby in this rort-ridden system. Protectionism and government subsidies will do that.
‘we are letting our farming grind to a halt or be taken over by foreign investors’
No they are selling out at a handsome price, subtle difference.
And I agree with splatter, the largesse is drawing to a close.
So it’s all agreed then. Free markets benefit we, the little people.
The Chinese have already cornered that market.
So we create others … Australians are world famous for innovation … we’ve become negative consumers rather than business leaders … but we have to define what’s on the horizon and how we can profit from it …
No they are selling out at a handsome price, subtle difference.
Short term, lazy, thinking … sell assets for a quick profit or work it for profit for years …
So it’s all agreed then. Free markets benefit we, the little people.
If it were a free market yes … but we all know that its not …
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The reason we have unions is because of poor management … now I don’t want to get rid of managers … they need to be trained to do their jobs properly … but get rid of either one and the pendulum will swing either way … and either way its the workforce that will suffer!
There is balance in everyhing around us from the simple black/white, day/night, sound/silence … union/management …
There is never an absolute always a bit of “noise” around the edges … to blame the unions for the problems at Holden and Ford is just plain silly … both companies are American … this “Australian Company” cry is just plain BS … profits go back to the good old USofA …
Managers operate businesses not unions …
The mining industry has three mandatory units of competency for anyone at supervisor level up … Manage Risk, Investigate Accidents and Communicate in the Workplace … the last one includes Negotiation … because its a mjor part of nay managers job … and it was mandatory because they aren’t very good at it … unions leaders are …
One of my uni assignments was to investigate IR systems around the world and compare them to Australia’s award system (a unique system BTW) … I like Germany’s approach because the board’s of companies equivelent to Holden and Ford have directors selected from the workforce …
As a production manager I suggested the company join, what was then, the MTIA, (metal trades industries association) … the AMWU found out and called me, I suggested they could talk to the troops (around 80) about membership … providing I was there at the meeting … it was held during a lunch time … I was called away … and discovered later that the troops had told them to piss off (they had a copy of the Award, Workers Comp Act and WH&S Act in their lunchroom and they could ask for info anytime – which I gladly gave or found for them) … their reasoning was that I was a fair boss … I had to get them all together again and inform them that I may not always be there (I had recently been offered a job as a training consultant and was deciding to move on) …
I guess that life experiences colour your approach to ideology, politics and economics … I also guess a little knowledge can be dangerous …
My business mentor used to say, he’d sooner have a lousy job with great people than a great job with lousy people …
And I still prefer to live in a society rather than survive in an economy!
And you can’t have one without the other …
I’m not keen to see all the technical oriented jobs disappear from Australian cities.
Without manufacturing we’ll have few metropolitan trades and engineers outside construction. Many of those occupations will finish up on a fly in, fly out remote mining cycle, quite unappealing.
I’ve had mixed views about taxpayer subsidies to the motor vehicle industry, but I’ve decided that I’m willing to support a bit more of it subject to-
*Initial Productivity Commission support
*Oversight by them to ensure that they are extracting maximum benefit from current IR law, and then ramp up any further flexibility from government reform
(even though Milton Friedman has been proved correct for a generation!)
“If it were a free market yes … but we all know that its not …”
Yes, we do, but the freer the markets the better, and the less government intervention the better. The fact that big business, government and unions do cosy deals among themselves, interfering with market forces to the detriment of consumers and average taxpayers, is all the more reason right-thinking people should advocate for the ideal of real free markets.
“So it’s all agreed then. Free markets benefit we, the little people.”
or do they…
http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/qantas-to-close-avalon-maintenance-base/story-fnda1bsz-1226755644895
“So it’s all agreed then. Free markets benefit we, the little people.”
Its the only system that works efficiently, even the working poor and welfare recipients are better off with cheap imports.
Looks like they’ve found Tony Abbott. He’s on Sky as I type this, live (or so they say).
Just a wild guess, but I’m tipping the twitterati are in full outrage mode over the CSIRO job cuts.
Avalon maintenance base has been a dud for years. Unions screwed that up too.
Isn’t it odd that incompetent managers blame unions for incompetent management …
Good union leaders (and there are many) get good results for their members … then incompetent managers blame the unions (for getting good results) … no-one ever looks at the manager (for getting poor results) … 🙄
Compare sport coaches (managers) … and players (union members) … and results … 🙄
Irony? Hypocrisy?
Can we have a new Rostrum fred please, sreb?
For OT thoughts … although you probably think that applies to all the freds anyway, I know … 🙂
Talking of China, a ‘profound revolution’ can be expected at the Plenum.
‘It will rival the Third Plenum of Deng Xiaoping in 1978, the moment when China turned its back on Maoist autarky and unleashed the creative forces of the market, lifting 500m people out of poverty.
‘The reforms will, in theory, break China’s destructive reliance on investment – a world record 49pc of GDP – and allow the hard-working Chinese people to enjoy a less miniscule sliver of what they produce. This will reduce China’s excess manufacturing capacity over time, and therefore China’s trade surplus. Everybody will be happier, except the Communist Nomenklatura. That, at least, is the story.
‘Yet at the same time Mr Xi is tightening the grip of the Party, reviving the Maoist “mass line” and rectification campaigns of the Cultural Revolution. “All his reflexes are Leninist,” says Professor Minxin Pei from California’s Claremont McKenna University. Mr Xi wants to have it both ways.’
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
While I have the floor, its back to the future with Xi.
‘Following his transition to power in November, calls became increasingly loud for Xi to introduce meaningful political reform to one-party rule as many believed that the country had arrived at a critical juncture.
‘But, in recent weeks, nearly all major state-run media outlets, including the People’s Daily, its affiliated tabloid the Global Times and Xinhua, have carried commentaries critical of reformists who advocate “Western ideas” such as democracy and “constitutionalism” – placing the party itself under the rule of law.
South China Morning Post
TB, the recent history of aircraft maintenance base at Avalon related to ASTAS – a centre for aerospace technology. It was (re)established as a single union site providing an integrated/seamless classification/career structure. It was innovative and was intended to lead the commercialisation of aircraft maintenance in the country.
Unfortunately the innovation attracts the attention of a range of other unions, which claim coverage. So before long, several unions were active in carving out their traditional areas of demarcation, the integrated classification structure came under pressure and it returned to looking like the chain dragging version that existed in other Australian aircraft maintenance facilities.
An opportunity lost, not due to union costs, just due to their insistence of traditional areas of demarcation.
Are you familiar with the history of the airline industry?
“So it’s all agreed then. Free markets benefit we, the little people.”
China is interesting because “capitalism in a communist country is not a problem it’s pragmatic solution.”
-Deng
(I must admit that I was wondering how long it would take for the Commies, Leftists, etcetera to reclaim Capitalism(s) from the false antipathy(ies) and subtle shift(s) in language demarcating it as a totalising marketeers’ naturally monopolistic free-for-all-and-none-other; instead of there being vibrant market(s)-place(s) of, and for, theoretical and applied political ideas, ideologies, uses, and ends, which one might otherwise, or also, expect to see, and probably is seen, or at least is seeable, outside of the sheltered-workshop of a Galt’s Gulch’s idealised (anti-)market.
Heck, it might even be claimed that well-regulated markets, alongside or intrinsic to a right to bear dollars, are the ne plus ultra, since that admission seems to be common enough as an ideally freeing, and somewhat pragmatic, fall-back when market-failure, and market-failures, start to add up to considerable unfreedom(s), in same or other (political) dimensions, including the social.)
Are there such things as market-failures, or just (un)desirable consequences?
”Julia Gillard to be played by Rachel Griffiths in TV drama
Australia’s Rachel Griffiths has signed on to portray former prime minister Julia Gillard in a television drama.”
Yeah!! That’s great! That’s likely to be so very realistic!
How about Sam Worthington to play Kevin Rudd? Or Hugh Jackman to play Tony Abbott???
That makes about the same sense.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/julia-gillard-to-be-played-by-rachel-griffiths-in-tv-drama-20131108-2x77h.html#ixzz2k6ExlYaW
(“Are there such things as market[-failure]s, or just (un)desirable [con]sequences?”
Mu?)
Are you familiar with the history of the airline industry?
Does 650,000 FF points count? 😉
Only ever did one job for QANTAS … management personal profiling program … interesting results! (As usual)
‘somewhat pragmatic, fall-back when market-failure’
A fall back position makes good economic sense, historically mindful of the boom and bust model so popular in the West. Xi is searching for the middle way between Leninism and Capitalism.
Marx would be amused.
Xi is searching for the middle way between Leninism and Capitalism.
That’s pretty intelligent thinking …
Marx would be amused.
Do we care what Marx would think?
A mix of command amd market systems would be better for the majority of people in the world than the extremes we suffer now …
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘That’s why competency based learning and assessment are so important _ guess what majored in _ and my consultancy was?’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Vested interest no doubt TB.
Education / Training in what.? when so many jobs are thrown on the bonfire of free-trade, Qantas just bonfired another 300, no doubt `competency`based` jobs this week.
.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘I might remind you all that if unemployment is 5.5% then 94.5% are employed – not necessarily full time I admit.’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
And l might remind you that `unemployment`numbers are really quite fraudulent, by definition, just as many `under`employed.
Fraudulent definition allows the guy on welfare that once a week delivers your `local`newspaper for 30-buck$, be chalked-up in the “`employed`column“`, but even the most `rabid` teabags would realize this guy can`t live on $30/week, and his major source of income is from welfare.
‘Do we care what Marx would think?’
It was a throw away line.
No argument here 777
++++++++++++++++++++++++
It would never have caught anything anyway, egg …
We could have discussed the dialectic.
Our lpad`osy`s falsely infers who `free`market benefits,
with,
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘So it’s all agreed then. Free markets benefit we, the little people.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
The Govt/Corporate run`white` markets, are not `free` lpad`osy, but stacked against the smaller/weaker and in favor of the stronger.
Then we get some standard teabag talk-quotes from our lpad`osy with,
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Yes, we do, but the freer the markets the better,’ ‘ ‘ ‘
The most-free market is the `black`market,
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘and the less government intervention the better.’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
and those that squeal and demand that oh-so-free market is closed down, is the Govt/Corporate lot. Bleating about `copy-right` and `tax-avoiding`.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘The fact that big business, government and unions do cosy deals among themselves, interfering with market forces’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Yes, all of`em do too much trough-snouting lpad`osy, no arguement here.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘to the detriment of consumers and average taxpayers,’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Which the corporate lot don`t give a fcuk about lpad`osy.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘people should advocate for the ideal of real free markets.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
lt seems there is some panty-wetters wanting to interfere with gold-coast markets that may be run by motorcycle riding business people.
Seems Mr Coleslaw has some comprehension difficulties. But we already knew that.
lt seems lpad`osy can`t really appreciate the bigger picture, beyond the teabag talk-points. And is quite willing to accept and-do as he is told.
Just saw the funniest thing on sbs1 news,
they are called `flash robs` (in_teh-usa) ,
this big group of people ran into the department store, and ran out taking the clothing, racks and all, another problem that will be heading our way soon no doubt. Just as driving off without paying at petrol stations has taken off.
What exactly do you think I was arguing for, Mister C? The “Govt/Corporate lot”? Then I suggest you re-read my comments. Or not.
‘A mix of command and market systems would be better for the majority of people in the world than the extremes we suffer now …’
Do you know if it’s ever been tried?
Most of the economies in the world have a mixture of both, but China is the only one with a political dictatorship.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘China is the only one with a political dictatorship.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘
Maybe-so egg. But China is the only Nation truly engaged in long-term,
planning, leadership, management and wealth-building.
Verses the rest, with short-sighted, short-term goals that are little more than looting programs.
Xi has told the Party that we need better propaganda to quell the unrest or our one party state is toast.
As I await my dot points from Rupert .
What’s with this food thing around here ?????
Buttermilk scones accompanied by fried cabbage and scrambled egg on toast. Might make it my signature dish.
Here’s a bit of light reading for you, egg … (and others) … there are no elections in a dictatorship (that’s why its a dictatorship …
You may be confusing a one party state with the Westminster System of confrontation and opposition …
Just think of the Chinese system has elected Independents … all working for the nation rather than half the parliament spending its time wastefully trying to bring down the elected government …
Is anyone naive enough to think “elections” in China are free and fair?
There is a lot of duplication and waste in the adversarial system, but I’d been reluctant to throw out democracy on a whim.
We could adopt some of their thinking on economic matters, like the Five Year Plan.
Is anyone naive enough to think “elections” in China are free and fair?
I don’t know? Are they free and fair here?
What’s happening in Western Australia?
My reply to, egg, was the assumption that China is a dictatorship … its not.
My suggestions for some time now have been that the Westminster system has flaws (and it is exceedingly wastful of talent on both sides of political ideaology)… the Chinese system has flaws … but is focussed on developing the country … its major flaw for me is that it IS a totalitarian state (eg no recognition of religion and problems with freedom of speech and assembly etc)
I’m suggesting that we seek to improve OUR system by analysing others …
Tories generally sit in the mud … so I expect a barrage of – “our system has served us for centuries” – comments from non-progressive rusted ons …
As a case in point the new ALP for elections for the leader, was, in my opinion, a dismal failure … but the concept has possibilities … it needs to be massaged not manipulated as this first attempt seems to have been …
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘I’d been reluctant to throw out democracy’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
Screeching `democracy` is a bullshit argument egg.
ln most so-called democracy`s the majority of citizens don`t vote anyway, they have realized it is futile. Australia persists with it`s form of force`em to attend, and hope they vote charade, for international `grandstanding` purposes, not citizen`s welfare.
I get it now!
The only ‘free’ elections are those given the pj-seal of Approval. It seems to work the same way as ‘free’ trade agreements.
It’s so obvious when you know whose side to be seen to be on.
I didn’t vote in the last election. I’m yet to get punitive revenue imposition for it. I expect a fine in the mail.
As they are so keen to give everybody else`s job to China,
l just hope l live long enough to see the canberra-fools jobs be given to China.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘I didn’t vote in the last election.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
l went water-melon last time.
Usually tho, l go donkey, (he always gets up) and include a `Love-Letter` showing my `devotion` to my friends in canberra.
Voting in my electorate is an exercise in futility.
I have done in the past, but this time I had to do overtime after nightshift. Went home & slept & when I arose the booths were shut.
No matter. Bombproof Liberal seat anyway.
l refuse to accrue fines, l begrudge giving what little l have to`em if l don`t need to. l also make the most of tormenting the true-believing delusional`s that work for the party`s and run the booths. This small satisfaction is only available every 3-years or so.
Is anyone naive enough to think “elections” in China are free and fair?
I don’t know? Are they free and fair here?
What’s happening in Western Australia?
My reply to, egg, was the assumption that China is a dictatorship … its not.
My suggestions for some time now have been that the Westminster system has flaws (and it is exceedingly wastful of talent on both sides of political ideaology)… the Chinese system has flaws … but is focussed on developing the country … its major flaw for me is that it IS a totalitarian state (eg no recognition of religion and problems with freedom of speech and assembly etc …as in ToSY’s link) …
I’m suggesting that we seek to improve OUR system by analysing others …
Tories generally sit in the mud … so I expect a barrage of – “our system has served us for centuries” – comments from non-progressive rusted ons …
As a case in point the new ALP for elections for the leader, was, in my opinion, a dismal failure … but the concept has possibilities … it needs to be massaged not manipulated as this first attempt seems to have been …
Why can’t we vote online yet?
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘focussed on developing the country’ ‘ ‘ ‘(China)
and financial system, technology, all built off the `value-adding` manufacturing jobs our fools threw away.
.
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‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Tories generally sit in the mud’ ‘ ‘ ‘
it`s not mud, open sewer TB.
“l refuse to accrue fines, l begrudge giving what little l have to`em if l don`t need to.”
I won’t get charged.
All I have to do is pen them a sob story & they can’t make me pay. Rest assured, it will be absolutely dripping with sarcasm & doublespeak.
‘Under the People’s Republic of China, all media became controlled by the state. Censorship was introduced almost immediately, and various political campaigns effectively enforced ideological uniformity. The social mobilization of the PRC’s citizens further discouraged any dissent. Beginning in the late 1960s, the Cultural Revolution reinforced the penalties for deviating from the established orthodoxy through an ongoing and terrifying ideological campaign.
‘Although private enterprise has been promoted, marking a departure from Communist orthodoxy in economic matters, there has not been a similar relaxation in terms of freedom of expression. The great increase in broadcast and print media outlets and their commercialization (there are over 2,000 newspapers, over 650 radio stations, and over 3,000 television stations) has taken place mostly within the framework of state ownership or state-sponsored ownership. More important, the media still operate under the strict supervision of the state’s enormous propaganda and censorship apparatus. Nearly all significant appointments of editors, broadcasters, and senior journalists remain controlled by the party’s nomenklatura system (appointment based on loyalty to and position within the CCP). Editors and journalists must attend ideology reinforcement conferences, and all media are required to comply with “propaganda circulars” issued by the Central Propaganda Department of the CCP and its local branches. Other state institutions further contribute to the web of controls. Editors and journalists who go beyond the direction of the party in reporting local corruption are severely punished and face dismissal, exclusion from the profession, or even arrest. Some are prosecuted according to the Protection of National Secrets Law, which is detrimental to press freedom because the actual violation of the law is often never known to avoid revealing the supposed state secret.
[…]
‘In 1989, protests in Tiananmen Square spontaneously grew to over 100,000 people and spread throughout the country. In each place, demonstrators sought greater freedom and democracy. These events show that Chinese society has not ignored the great advances in liberty made in many countries over the last century. Certainly, the contrast between Taiwan (the Republic of China) and mainland China (the People’s Republic of China) in the area of freedom indicates that Chinese society is not condemned to perpetual dictatorship. But any hope for change is dampened by the current regime’s suppression of attempts to express opinions outside of approved subjects and to report facts outside the government’s level of tolerance. Even informal publications not widely distributed or discussion clubs with few members are targets of regime crackdowns. The regime’s control over the internet has shown the limits of the hope that technology can easily transform a dictatorship.’
Yeah sure lpad`osy.
But you omit the final paragraph in which teh-west-despots allows and profits by financing the slave-owners and inhibitors of so-called freedom, and how our troll-media interfere in politics also, drowning out truth and facts with endless white-noise. Things our lpad`osy sees no-problem with.
ToSY, I didn’t suggest we ADOPT the Chinese system but brush the Macarthyism blinkers away just see if anything might wok for us …
China has done exactly that … looking at the “system” of market economy and … redesigning a version for their system …
I just downloaded Internet Explorer 11.0 for Win 7 … you could say that IE 1.0 worked at the time it was introduced but it has been constantly improved 10 times …
In our society why do we still bow to people who live in a big house in London … they are no different to us (a lot richer as Robber Barons generally are – but they don’t really have blue blood) … I had to swear allegiance to the Queen many years ago or be thrown in jail … free speech and thoughts anyone?
‘ ‘ ‘I had to swear allegiance to the Queen many years ago or be thrown in jail’ ‘ ‘
l suspect you`re wrongly mixing/muddling things here TB,
we all aren`t blinkered, brainless teabags here TB,
‘Things our lpad`osy sees no-problem with.’
What’s the sky look like on planet Cabbage?
‘l just hope l live long enough to see the canberra-fools jobs be given to China.’
Careful what you wish for.
‘drowning out truth and facts with endless white-noise.’
That’s the Chinese model, in Australia there is a diversity of views and this has expanded enormously through the interwebs.
l suspect you`re wrongly mixing/muddling things here TB,
Nup … not even deliberately … 😉
And my Certificate of Discharge … includes …
So as you can see,700, I didn’t muddle/mix a thing … and, interestingly, I became an Australian Citizen about four years after my discharge! 🙄
‘I became an Australian Citizen about four years after my discharge!’
So you were a mercenary?
TB Queensland: “ToSY, I didn’t suggest we ADOPT the Chinese system but brush the Macarthyism blinkers away just see if anything might wok for us …China has done exactly that … looking at the “system” of market economy and … redesigning a version for their system …”
Okay, so you have pointed to private enterprise/markets and local elections as positive features of our system the Chinese are adopting. What features of their system do you think we should adopt?
So you were a mercenary?
… earning $80 a fortnight down from $140 a week … yeah right.
What about pressganged!
That’s a bloody good question, ToSY … my main suggestion has always been to redesign our Westminster Parliamentary process to one of co-operation rather than confrontation, long term, national, bi-partisan planning … introduction of more business structure rather than traditional process … real accountability …
That’s just a quick one man brainstorm … there are a lot of smart brains here … wonder if WE could identify some ideas together … rather than confrontation?
What we are seeking is a mixed economy with a difference, where the left and right can agree on the balance between free and command.
Sort of, egg … but sometimes I (like many others here0 agree with the “right” the “centre” or the “left” …. and it depends on the issue/subject …
If you look at the US mixed economy and Obamacare in particular, our system is best.
Before the economic revolution in China there was universal free health care, but now the insidious free market dares to intrude.
‘Quality of care between private and publicly funded facilities differs, and private clinics are more frequented in some rural areas due to better service and treatment. In fact, a study by Lim, et al. showed that in the rural Chinese provinces of Guangdong, Shanxi, and Sichuan, 33% of rural citizens in these provinces utilize private clinics as opposed to governmentally funded hospitals.
‘The study showed that it was not so much the availability and access to health care for citizens, as it was the quality of the public health care people were receiving that drove them to opt for private clinics instead. The continued lack of health insurance, especially in the majority of rural provinces (where 90% of people in these rural provinces lack health insurance) demonstrates a continued gap in health equality.’
Wiki
‘ ‘ ‘I had to swear allegiance to the Queen many years ago or be thrown in jail’ ‘ ‘
.
TB, from what you have said previously, l thought you were `drafted` by the Aussie Govt, to go make war on the yellow man (Vietnam). And not born in teh-usa. 🙂
.
lf so far l`m correct,
Aussie Govt threatened to chuck blokes in the gulag for murder-refusal, not Liz, Was uk even in Vietnam.?
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Yes, l know Aussie Govt retains mother-uk `wordiness` within it`s official propaganda, tho Liz is merely a fancy figure-head. Remember lraq, Liz couldn`t stop John-W and Blair goose-stepping after George-W, even if she wanted to.
Crap… Utter crap.
Noddy’s Forced Decentralisation
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/12/27/logan-residents-unhappy-plan-relocate-locals
Cabbage, you sometimes act like one … QEII is the Queen of Australia* (that’s her title) eg Royal Australian Regiment … Royal Australian Navy etc … you swear “allegiance” to the head of state … like it or not!
You may now be getting the idea that a Republic of Australia is a good idea …
And to add to your knowledge (expanding daily I hope) I was not an Australian citizen, I was married and I had a little girl … but I was still called up – they needed tradies (I was a motor mech) and I therefore was deployed to RAEME – the ROYAL Australian Electrical & Mechanical Engineers … (the first “ballot” was “public” the second was “in camera” read Paul Ham’s book on VN).
And yes, I could have refused and gone to jail, and yes I could have returned to the England until hostilities ceased (many of my peers did) … but I this was my chosen home …
When I did apply for Citizenship, four years after I was discharged, my application took six months … there was little evidence of me arriving here (I had been included in my father’s passport) …
When I was eventually called into Brisbane for an interview it didn’t go well … and I was on the verge of being refused … I ended up throwing my discharge booklet at him and saying something like “have you got one of these?” … he, “you served with the Australian Army?” … me, “yep, and no-one asked any of the stupid bloody questions you just did!” …
He took out a stamp and hit my application with “ACCEPTED” and lo and behold said … wait for it … “welcome to Australia” … PS wanker!
*Not a certain well known blogmeaster …
Is Cam talking to you or me Cabbage …?
Probably, egg …
cryptic comments don’t do nuffin’ for me …
‘Probably, egg …’
Doubtful, it looks like a random attack. On the other hand, with Min and Migs in London I smell the stench of cafe dwellers in search of amusement.
I’m amused …
So what do you make of Noddy’s decentralisation plans? Will it catch on in other states?
egg, this is what I think of, Noddy Newman & The Nincompoops … (Noddy is a big fan of JBP) …
And finally …
TB, l understand what you have said, so don`t take it the wrong way,
1-Liz and UK played no `decision` in following teh-usa into Vietnam, stupid, arse-licking, Aust. politicians did. True/False.?
(yank-govt thought they would easily defeat a `weary` Vietnam that had just tossed out French occupiers/masters)
2-Forget about Vietnam for a moment, take a good, hard look at teh-usa and its bullshit about `national-healthcare`, keep in mind Aust. politicians tend to be `yank-fanboys` and just ask yourself, do you really believe an Aust. `republic` would-NOT be modeled on the shit-usa system.?
l don`t.
BTW TB, l aint tellin anybody to `Love` Liz-and-co either,
l look at teh-usa system, and how `mean`spirited it is to the poor,weak,sick,black,gay and their returned `soldiers` and l am certain,
l don`t want it.