Boat People will “Never Settle in Australia” says Rudd
The Greens are not impressed.
Prime Minister Kevette has today revealed a new asylum seeker policy that will see all asylum seekers arriving by boat to be shipped off to PNG.
It’s a clever political manoeuvre that may well stem the flow of asylum seekers from Indonesia while simultaneously silencing the Opposition and their ludicrous “turn the boats” around alternative so-called “solution”.
Of course those two interminable whingers, Greens Leader Christine Milne and her equally pernicious sidekick Sarah Hanson-Young have fronted the media to express their palpable outrage over the plan.
Christine Milne said it was “absolutely immoral” for a rich nation like Australia to “dump thousands of vulnerable people into an impoverished country”.
“Who would have thought a prime minister who said that under Julia Gillard the country would lurch to the right on asylum seekers would … lurch so far to the right that he has leap-frogged Tony Abbott in terms of cruelty and just how far he’s prepared to go with the treatment of people who are seeking asylum in our country?” she said.
Senator Milne said the transfer of asylum seekers to PNG would put the problem “out of sight, out of mind”.
“It will be Australia’s gulag in PNG,” she said.
Senator Milne said PNG had problems with corruption, violence and malaria and was not in a position to resettle thousands of refugees.
“It’s a day of shame for our nation and it says to the rest of the world Australia is a very rich country prepared to pass the buck to a very poor country.”
The pledge to make the announcement budget-neutral did not auger well for Australia’s aid budget, Senator Milne said.
Senator Milne said the announcement showed how “ruthless” Mr Rudd had become in a race to the election.
“He has taken the Rudd out of Ruddock and gone even further,” she said.
Sarah Hanson-Young was equally rope-able echoing her leader’s remarks that it was “Australia’s day of shame” as far as asylum seekers go.
I guess they overlooked the fact that asylum seekers will still be able to arrive and settle in Australia through legitimate channels.
theguttertrash.com 
A step up from Gillard’s
failed East Timor…Malaysia Solutionpolicy stuff ups.PNG is a signatory to the UNHRC
Blind sided Abbott.
Seems to be the best position on offer.
I agree Tom.
Its only for 1 year and no one will believe the ALPs costings on this
If we ever see the costing before the election that is.
I’m in two minds about this … having lived for twelve months and a day in PNG (Wally’ll tell ya why) and worked off and on for 15 years …
… if the people planning a boat trip here can get info on PNG it may make them think twice (ie destination PNG) but I doubt that will happen … most Aussies don’t understand the issues in PNG … let alone refugees/asylum seekers …
And yet PNG NEEDS quality competent people and it is a good way to inject $$ support to PNG from Oz …
People need to remember that PNG is a third world (is there a fourth world category?) country … very poorly governed, corruption is rife, law and order are just words, education is rarely above Grade 6 …
… the official language is English … but most speak Pidgin and/or Motu as well as their village language … because of the geography of PNG there are literally over 700 languages (not dialects – but languages!) in PNG …
… there are very few roads and most are dead-end (imagine a highway between Brisbane and Sydney and nothing either end) …
However, PNG may flourish with expertise from the Middle East … and Vietnam …
It’s a masterstroke by Rudd.
He’s F**KED Abbott!
“Who do you trust to stop the boats” says Tony Abbott…
Does he have a track record?
Did I miss something while he was in guvmint….???
I’m inclined to agree, ToM, with one addition AND Morrison!
KRudd has on a tie today that is blindingly South Pacific-around-Tahiti-cerulean. I think I am the only person in the country who is transfixed by Kevin’s subversive neckwear. TA’s Dreary-Day-in-Launceston grey-blue looks well dreary by comparison.
Actually, looking at that photo above, Milne the Wierdo and Hanson – (give me the answers for your questions) – Young … I bet they post at CW!
“I bet they post at CW!”
If they’re allowed…
LOL… 😆
“(imagine a highway between Brisbane and Sydney and nothing either end)”
Well there’s nothing at the north end now.
Well there’s nothing at the north end now.
Bitch!
popcorn…get ’em while their ‘ot
Not sure that outflanking Abbott, on his righthand side, is something to be especially proud of. Even though it appears it may very well work, tactically.
I wouldn’t be proud of myself tppwst. In fact I am ashamed of their actions.
Me too.
But I have a suspicion that it will play well with a great proportion of the Australian electorate, who’ve been spoonfed a diet of reflexive pantywetting, regarding asylum seekers, for at least the last decade.
The ‘threat’ has been disgracefully overstated. It plays upon inherent xenophobia & selfish entitlement…& it runs deep.
Shrewd, cynical politicking.
Sie haben recht Waschraum. Ich kann nicht mehr sagen.
‘Shrewd, cynical politicking.’
Realpolitik…. pragmatism over principle.
The Ruddster has moved back to the centre, having divorced the Greens, its what the people want…according to the polls.
A true leader inspires people to act against base instincts. In this instance the base instincts of our leaders is coarsening the will of the people. Utterly cynical.
It’s difficult, and Rudd’s announcement isn’t something to be proud of, at all.
…but, I think Australia is likely to take a greater responsibility for funding the welfare of anyone settled, than would have been the case in Malaysia.
And I agree with you comment about leadership Dianne. We have lacked any semblance of leadership for almost 2 decades.
“A true leader inspires people to act against base instincts. In this instance the base instincts of our leaders is coarsening the will of the people. Utterly cynical.”
Sage.
People, especially those with little insight, look to their leaders for their cues. This enables the darker traits of ugly Nationalism, ignorant repugnance & opportunistic, manipulatory distractionism.
‘A true leader inspires people to act against base instincts.’
A true charismatic leader will create a revolution in ideas.
I suspect you are right about the funding Tom. In a strange way we in some sort of colonial relationship again with PNG except they will hold the power if the boats keep coming. I am in lock step with you on the lack of leadership. Do people get what they deserve? Maybe.
People get trained, both overtly & passively, to react predictably to the ‘push button’ issues our governments favour.
This is useful to a government because it takes scrutiny away from the myriad other deceits which they are propagating which actually do have an impact on the daily life of Joe Citizen.
Abortion is another classic example of the ‘push button’.
It’s an exercise in emoting certain majority demographics.
In this instance, other people, foreigners, are going to get what we are being lead to believe they deserve.
To ensure that our fear, that they don’t take what we deserve, is quenched.
Shameful.
It is hanging-your-head-in-the-stocks shameful.
Maybe what the Guvmint needs to do, rather than spending money on full page ads in Australian newspapers warning asylum seekers that they won’t get to stay here if they arrive by boat, is to instead focus on a campaign that makes PNG seem like a really nice place to visit….
Papua New Guinea. Beautiful one day. Bat shit crazy the next.
I can’t understand why they are advertising in Australian newspapers. Are they electioneering? I didn’t think they sold a lot of copies of the SMH in Kabul. Am I missing the point? Actually I would love to go to the highlands of New Guinea to see all the mudmen and the a birds of Paradise. I rather fancy I would have to crawl through the jungle and climb tall trees to see the latter so I will have to be satisfied with David Attenborough. Intrepid is not my name.
Another boat has been spotted off Xmas Island and these characters are destined for PNG… trumpets hate media.
I suppose, Rudd, has had to counter the negatives against boat people manufactured developed and nurtured by the LibNits over a long period of time …
… it will also allow breathing space to maybe come up with a more long term, humane approach than the PNG Solution … and hopefully educate the general population …
… and like KL, posted a couple of days ago, mainly due to this issue and attempting to throw some light on ignorance and LibNit propoganda our own circle of friends is now a dot of friends! The same issue has caused some friction between me and one of my kids!
I refuse to lie and agree to other people’s lies just to keep the peace.
And while we are reverting to Teutonic discourse … always remember …
Arbeit macht frei
Beware nationalist tendencies … some of you may recall that I said the same at the beginning of the GFC (no it hasn’t gone away) … history repeats and it was a return to nationalism that saw the uprising of the National Socialist Party … who pitted themselves against the Communists (actually a “global” system) …
The Golden Dawn neo-Nazis in Greece are something to behold TB. I too run into fierce resistance on the subject of asylum seekers. I am constantly amazed and disturbed by the power of repetitive propaganda. All those who hyperventilate about boat people run the same argument using the same slogans. It is imposs to argue with them.
Will we have to patrol the Torres Strait?
I heard Warren Entsch talking the other day about the lengths some Papuans are going to receive medical care in the TS islands. Apparently we fund certain clinics in PNG but corruption means that these facilities are just empty sheds. Entsch said one family was so desperate to get medical assistance for their son who had broken his back that they strapped him to a wooden door and towed him to a clinic on Australian territory.
So getting back to the asylum seekers …. Will they head for Australia in small boats? Campbell Newman says so. Apparently only 4 km separates northern Queensland from PNG.
My partner was offered a contract working in PNG. Excellent money, accommodation a driver and a bodyguard.
I told him to turn it down.
‘Will they head for Australia in small boats?’
Unlikely, if we pay them to stay in PNG.
What exactly is the detail in this operation, do they automatically become PNG citizens?
Will we fund their startup in a small business?
The bodyguard incentive says it all Reb. I don’t think there is any available detail Egg.
Right, this means I can’t possibly make a value judgment.
Yes you can Egg. Why not insert some values into this matter.
Is there anyone else here who hates drum solos and only pretends to be excited?
My post couldn’t be posted? I’m banned?
Drummers usually hang out with musicians … how do I know … ’cause I were one …
Depends what you mean by drum solo … here’s one the greatest …
‘I’m banned?’
Maybe you were caught in spam by accident … otherwise its got something to do with your associations.
Drum solos are self indulgent.
Can you hum along with one TB?
I am sure he was wonderful but I wanted him to stop. I loved the clip. Thanks it was a real treat. L Armstrong has a strange resemblance to Joe Hockey. What kind of music did you play TB? I can play nothing which is a source of regret,
Should have said what kind of instrument/s did you play and can you yodel?
‘Why not insert some values into this matter.’
I’m not a bleedin’ heart, if illegal guest workers want a better life in Australia and know they can’t have it … then they will stop coming.
Genuine refugees should go to the nearest safe haven, you can see them in Malaysian concentration camps … we should take a lot more of these people.
I think a bleedin’ heart might lurk within that hard little Eggshell.
Di, I actually was a drummer in bands from about 16 to 19 I then joined a four piece band where we all sang … The Beatles changed music forever …
I went solo as a singer at 20 and won Queensland’s New Faces @ 21 … won the Encouragement Award on National New Faces and appeared on TV six time with channel 9 and 10 (then 0) …
… I got a nice little Saturday club circuit (RSL, football, and guest artist) going (those days I earned $70 pw … two twenty minute spots on Saturday earned me $70!) … then at 22 the Army borrowed me for two years … buggered it all up – both careers had to start again … by this time I was married and was the proud father of two … I still sing here and there … and everywhere … 🙂
Most entertaining drumming ever
*WARNING- song title may offend some viewers*
Holy shit!
TeeBee’s
infamous ! 😯*Also in above vid…most tolerant cat in the world (probably a ragdoll)…
“My post couldn’t be posted? I’m banned?”
When you drink 1+1/2 bottles of DIMPLE, then return to find yourself in moderation, you tend to be fairly forgiving…& slightly concerned by what you typed that got you put there; especially when you can’t actually remember, but you know that, based upon text messages on your mobile & other circumstantial evidence outside of this forum, you were being fairly ‘loose’ with your tact. 😉
Who is this dimple drinker?
Tis’ I ! good sir.
* apologies if I carried on a bit. 😦
** just because I can’t remember, doesn’t make it ok. Ignorance is never truly bliss…
“…I got a nice little Saturday club circuit (RSL, football, and guest artist) going …”
TB (stage name “Wayne Anderson”) is actually being very modest about his career…. There’s actually been a documentary made about his singing career… Here is one of the episodes…
I’ve tried searching for young teebee, on Youtube, to no avail.
I was hoping he’d be on there doing Slayer covers, or something cool.
Hawhaw…
You found
ithim!Bitches! You’re just
as badworse than, ToSY! 😦😆
One of TB’s standout performances…..!
You should watch that documentary about you TB, it’s actually very funny! 😆
“* apologies if I carried on a bit”
Aaah, I see.. Your posts from the other night… 😆
No worries at all Boss… I’ve had a few episodes like that myself… 😉
Where do you find such shite, sreb? 🙄
I’ve had a few episodes like that myself…
As of the last few .. Wayne Fkn Anderson … 🙄
So, I wasn’t in moderation deliberately?! You, sir, are too tolerant by far! 🙂
“I wasn’t in moderation deliberately?”
Of course not…!! You didn’t post anything that would warrant that….
I have vague recollections about kerbstomping particular insects…I thought maybe that was pushing it a little. 😉
I watched the whole series TB, it’s genuinely entertaining…! And the funny thing is, it’s not a pisstake – it’s all real – and his (I mean your) manager really did work in a video shop on Ponsonby Road!!
Nah it’s fine boss, all good… 🙂
Teebee should really try out for The Voice next season! I’ve seen ‘such people’ on the ads.
He’d probably do really well…maybe get a few helpful words of encouragement from Ginger Spice & Kyle Sandilands.
You didn’t post anything that would warrant that….
How do you know that? If he didn’t why didn’t it post?
My post took me about 10 minutes and I got a message … this post can’t be accepted or sumfink … longest post this year … on this thread … I was starting to feel like Farnham Bear!
BTW, I blame WordPress …
maybe get a few helpful words of encouragement from Ginger Spice & Kyle Sandilands.
Jesus fkn Christ! What a pair of wankers!
BTW, Encouragement Award (see above) meant a noice little $$$$ package for a young family!
You’re probably getting an understanding here or why I don’t think governments help every family just some …
“I blame WordPress …”
I had problems posting the other day too…
I kept getting a message saying “Your comment can’t be posted” or something like that…
WordPress issue no doubt..
That’s the one…
Or maybe Rupert blacklisted us & has his hackers working overtime to ensure that we can’t use our prodigious influence to get Our Julia reinstated as Operating Thetan Lvl 1.
Wait, what… 😯
Well I am glad I made that little comment about drummers for I have been mightily amused and found out lots of interesting stuff about TB who is living my dream. I would have loved to have played the banjo in an Irish band. What fun. I have always had a soft spot for Finbar Furey. You are a lucky lucky man TB. What a happy life.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/rudd8217s-decision-will-stop-the-boats-afghan-asylum-seekers-declare/story-fni6ulvf-12266824919
Teh Hate Meeja?
Unfortunately, I too play the drums (as well as another “real” instrument) and am a drum tragic. My vote for best drun solo goes to Led Zeppelin’s John Bonham in Moby Dick (Bonham also gets writing credits for this “song”). Here’s just a small part of it, the full thing goes for about 20 minutes …
Another drummer! Does anyone else want to step forward? What is your ‘real’ instrument IPA?
Actually the only drum I really enjoy is the bodhran. It has an eerie sound that takes you back to the primal swamp. Just like the didgeridoo. Love that too. Otherworldly.
“What is your ‘real’ instrument IPA?”
I’d rather leave something to the imagination. 😉
Noice… appropriate reply IPA.
I walked int that one. Touché.
More rare unseen footage of TB!
It does seem the Ruddster is our long awaited charismatic leader, not only popular but also revolutionary.
If he keeps this up the end is nigh for Abbott.
Egg next you will be suggesting he is hansum!!!!!
“If he keeps this up the end is nigh for Abbott.”
I fear you may be right, egg. I’ve been watching a double-karate-chopping Mr Abbott and a wheel-spinning Mr Morrison on the telly this morning and Tony wasn’t landing any blows and Scott wasn’t getting any traction. All fertile ground for a spring-blossoming Turnbull.
I agree too and being a bleeding heart I actually feel sorry for TA. It would be a bitter blow.
‘All fertile ground for a spring-blossoming Turnbull.’
Talcum is sitting pretty on a win/win, whereas the monk has to win the election or he’s dead meat. Paul Kelly in the Oz has a good handle on the Ruddster’s tactics…
‘KEVIN Rudd’s mission has become a systematic transformation of Australia’s political agenda away from the Gillard-Abbott polarities by creating a new set of national challenges.
‘The Prime Minister loves the word challenge. By this technique Rudd, as incumbent, redraws the map and redefines the agenda. What is the heart of Rudd’s encompassing strategy? It is to impose new and different tests on Tony Abbott.’
Just as well he has all that charisma Egg. I know you are joking. I hope you are joking.
‘KEVIN Rudd’s mission has become a systematic transformation of Australia’s political agenda away from the Gillard-Abbott polarities by creating a new set of national challenges.
I think that’s journo speak for “concentrating on policies” … they get paid by the word y’know not the “quality’ – is ‘quality journalist’ an oxymoron these days?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Di, I once played the spoons with an Irish band in an Irish pub … they picked me and a couple of others as the dummies … luckily my grandad had taught me how to play many years ago … nothing flash but I can hold a reasonable rhythm … really good fun (particularly watching the band’s faces) … later on the same trip I was “coaxed” into singing in another pub with their pianist and her husband who played the violin he was a tiny little bloke and she was … mmm … quite large but they could really play! Sang, “I Believe”, (the Bachelors version) drank free Guinness all night!
I have a bodhran (cost me £200) 😯 hanging on my wall, that I brought back …
A very good article, in line with my thinking. The rot is in the system, not the parties and yes, it always was and always will be, class warfare, no matter how much australians kid themselves and are trained and led to believe otherwise.
A Malcolm Turnbull comeback would not be good news for the left:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/19/malcolm-turnbull-tony-abbott-spill
‘they get paid by the word y’know’
Do tell…
Anyway, I think Kev has charismatic authority and understands the meaning of revolution. His hero is a Chinese gent who took the dictatorship of the proletariat and moulded it into a neo-capitalist economy.
TB and you play the spoons! Love it. And you own a bodhran. What can I say? I love watching someone playing that magical little frame drum. Those mesmerizing wrist flicks…
It is always a delight to sit in a cramped little bar in Dingle and see all the young kids still playing trad music.
Armchair I read that article and it made me think. Not sure though. My instincts tell me that Malcolm has more going for him than that. That said my instincts are often driven by romanticism and wishful thinking.
Egg you make me nervous. I don’t want to be moulded by Kev.
This article is in similar vein but also talks about the problem with progressive thinking today. I have the same arguments about GetUp. I used to be a member but since simon sheik left I have had no interest in the organisation. I think simon was forced out by a progressive takeover, those who are only progressive on social issues but happily accept capitalist inequality and won’t challenge the status quo. I made my complaint in an email which was never replied to and I also commented on their blog when the new management took over and my comment was not published.
Malcolm is not so in the middle:
http://left-flank.org/2012/03/20/malcolm-is-not-so-in-the-middle/
Methink’s, Kev Kumbak has hit the jackpot alright …
http://www.news.com.au/national-news/rudd8217s-decision-will-stop-the-boats-afghan-asylum-seekers-declare/story-fncynjr2-1226682491915
KL,
… that first link actually makes a lot of sense (ie moving further to the right) … Turnbull was disturbing (to me …) the other night on Lateline (you may have read my comments) … he does seem to have “hardened up” lately … a bit like Rudd has shifted more to the right and is obviously making an impact … I suspect it reflects the emotions of the electorate more than anything else … from my perspective that is even more dangerous than politicians “harnessing” those national feelings …
… shades of the first half of last century, China, Russia, Spain, Italy, Germany, India, Indonesia, USA, communism, imperialism, socialism, nationalism, all struggling and bubbling to dominate …
Your second link reminded me of a comment by, Stephen Fry, on QI, recently, where he quoted research about “happiness” (an intangible difficult to capture I should think) … it seems that communities and nations are “happiest” when wealth is evenly spread …
… and that includes the fact that people are less happy when more people are wealthier than the few poor folk, as well as the (usual) more people are poor and a minority are rich …
‘Methink’s, Kev Kumbak has hit the jackpot alright …’
In the public mind he has quickly got rid of the two festering sores, but to get over the line, free and independent of watermelons, he will need to open up the northern food bowl to prove he is futuristic.
Big infrastructure development, properly costed, should convince lefty refugees to return to their political homeland in large numbers.
Only months ago Turnbull would argue from time to time that being attractive to ALP voters was positive and that was how leaders won elections. I am interested in your sceptism Armchair and by your observation that MT has ‘hardened up’ of late. Could it be that he is parading himself before the hard right of the party because he senses that the party leadership is within his grasp? I find him an enigma. He can talk about Cuba and the NBN in one breathe and then present a strong case for keeping the ABC in public hands in another.
TB’s observation in regards to Turnbull turning to right
Armchair and TB did you watch Turnbull with Ellen Fanning last night? If so what did you think?
I wonder if K Rudd will be able to ride out growing criticism of his PNG plan? I have deep-seated misgivings about that man. Poor Julia.
I suspect she would tell me to stick my ‘poor Julia’. I bet she is destined to be a major player somewhere internationally. She won’t be sitting around knitting.
Off to the gym. Early start. Busy day ahead.
The main problem I had with the ‘Malaysian Solution’ was that it did not meet Australia’s obligations re UNHRC.
Malaysia specifically declined to sign it so that it could adopt severe, punitive measures on a range of people and groups. PNG has its problems with law and order, but it doesn’t have Malaysia’s track record.
Rudd deserves acknowledgement for this measured and politically intelligent policy.
‘PNG has its problems with law and order’
One in three Port Moresby women can expect to be raped and foreigners need body guards.
‘Rudd deserves acknowledgement for this measured and politically intelligent policy.’
Yes….he is politically astute and charismatic. Very impressive ToM.
Everyone on the left seems quite happy with this PNG solution – it’s so much more humane and compassionate than those cruel Howard policies.
Call me old-fashioned Tom but I do not find pragmatism of the feral kind very attractive in a PM. He has chosen a flat-broke hell-hole in which society has broken down to deter people who are fleeing horror. He is counting on them not arriving to take advantage of the delights of Port Moresby. But what if they do come? Who can be sure?
And Egg some international expert on asylum law said one in two women in PNG are raped. An ABC report put the figure even higher at 70 per cent. Apparently raping women is a rite of passage for the Raskol gangs.
Last night Turnbull said he supported the PNG Solution? Even though it was ‘very cruel’.
I am astonished too that the left wing has been largely silent on the issue while elements of the right-wing commentariat have taken on the role of bleeding hearts. No I am not astonished. I am unsurprised. That is what shocks me.
The illegal guest workers will have to choose between poverty at home and the danger of living in PNG without a bodyguard.
Turnbull is correct, sometimes we have to be cruel to be kind….although its still patchy, genuine asylum seekers will probably be spirited to Australia from PNG.
Brilliant strategy by Kev, he knows the guest workers will stop coming and the money saved can be plowed into PNG …..law & order, hospitals etc.
Your last paragraph, Dianne, goes to the root of why the issue is merely treated as a tool of political leverage…by both sides.
As for you, PIA, immoral cuntiness will ALWAYS be more profound under the odious Howard. None of your equivocating will ever change that.
And, lookee see!… Howard’s nasty pet chimp, Abbott, is having a tilt too!
Hope you are right Egg. However I fear corruption is so entrenched that a lot of money will not reach people.
By the way where did that expression cruel to be kind come from. Always sounds like bs to me.
Sounds like it came straight out of a Rightwing Thinktank, to me.
I see an Anglican Bishop in Tasmania has recommended that boat people go there … well not in so many words but surely that’s what
shehe means … 🙂http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/tasmanian-bishop-slams-png-policy/story-e6frfku9-1226683204569
Whoa..steady on, I used to hang out with Communists when it was still fashionable.
PNG is a separate issue, but Kev has had plenty of time to ponder international relations over the past few years and is well up to speed on what can be achieved.
‘Cruel to be kind’ is a truism handed down through the generations.
Most good parents are often “cruel to be kind” … saying “no” is sometimes harder than simply allowing a child to do what they want … seems a lot of parents a very kind these days …
They then reap what they sow, weebee…
Dirtman would’ve said..Then they reep what they sew…
That’s not quite true, Toillette, we all reap what they sow … poor service in shops, certainly a lack of good manners these days, lack of respect for others, an “I am” approach to life, wild parties being condoned by parents, schoolies week (same parents providing grog!), stabbings, king hit brawls, home invasions, old men being bashed for having a quiet drink – ’cause they are too old! … the list goes on …
I can “hear” a P plate driven car before I see the friggin’ thing …
I’m a big fan of The Grumpy Guide To … series too!
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+grumpy+guide+to+teenagers&oq=the+grumpy+guide+to+&gs_l=youtube.1.0.0l10.9083.10084.0.18572.8.8.0.0.0.0.202.702.6j1j1.8.0…0.0…1ac.1.11.youtube.NHaaNthhLoU
“we all reap what they sow ”
That is true.
In this house, we do, ‘Firm but Fair…& consistent’, with an emphasis on personal responsibility & respect for others. It has definitely worked (so far). We say ‘no’ plenty, if it is warranted, but try to accompany ‘no’ with a reasonable explanation as to why.
That’s why we agree on so many things I suspect toiletpiddlepants …
I’ve been having some fun watching this little app ….
http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/social-media-tracker-enables-you-to-monitor-the-mood-of-the-electorate-as-the-poll-gets-closer/story-fnho52ip-1226680918963
LABOR LEADER TO BE ELECTED BY 50% CAUCUS 50% MEMBERS! ACCEPTED!
More here …
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2013/7/22/national-affairs/labor-backs-rudd-leadership-reforms?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=357718&utm_campaign=pm&modapt=
Big Brother is the ultimate cruel to be kind exponent. Who doesn’t need a Dear Leader.
You should never be cruel to your kids. But often saying no is kindness.
I concur.
On the other hand Rudd, in trying to be kind, was cruel to the thousand or so people he lured to their deaths. Sadly he thinks he has learned his lesson. But I suppose if this works it will not drown hapless asylum seekers.
It would have been much better if he had not abolished the Howard policy in a fit of moral exhibitionism but rather substantially increased the intake of refugees through the UN agencies.
At the time Rudd took over, the Howard policies were not operating harshly because there were virtually no refugees in detention and virtually none attempting dangerous voyages. There was no need to abolish them.
Kev spent time reflecting on what might have been as he strutted the world stage, when joolya was queen, I think the experience has changed the PM into a statesman.
Abbott has Buckleys Chance of winning this election.
… was cruel to the thousand or so people he lured to their deaths
Cringeworthy comment, sb … Thousand? Lured? … the bump is getting better?
there were virtually no refugees in detention and virtually none attempting dangerous voyages.
There are no constants nor absolutes in this life … world … and the only thing that never changes, is change itself …
… However, I do agree with this if he had not abolished the Howard policy in a fit of moral exhibitionism…
Abbott has Buckleys Chance of winning this election.
Fkn egg, egg … talk about fkn, Flip Flop … 🙄
‘Lured’ may be a bit lurid, TB, but I believe upwards of a thousand have so far drowned. And at the time it was abolished there were very few people in detention, so why change the policy? Much better to leave it in place and work with refugee agencies to take in more.
SB I am not at all convinced that off-shore detention and processing stopped the boats. I think it was more likely to have been that brief time of hope and promise in Iraq and Afghanistan where the majority of asylum seekers came from in those times. As a deterrent Nauru was always flawed. Ninety per cent plus ended up in Australia. I am sure that did not escape notice. Of course we have been conditioned to think that Howard stopped the boats. We have heard that slogan multiple times.
Dianne lots of people try to argue that Howard’s Pacific solution didn’t stop the boats. Look at this graph. Maybe you could argue that it was merely a co-incidence that the boats stopped shortly after the Pacific Solution was introduced, but you also have to explain why they increased exponentially after Rudd abolished that policy.
As to conditioning, the left has done its level best to argue as you are doing here but nobody much is buying it except other leftists. They haven’t produced any compelling evidence to suggest they are right. It is not as though there was a sudden spike in refugee numbers after Rudd’s change of the laws. It is not as though the problems in Sri Lanka are new. However, it is a fact that the people smugglers themselves have said that Rudd revitalised their business by scrapping the Pacific Solution.
Clearly the best thing for Rudd to have done was to work with refugee agencies to increase Australia’s intake and to leave the Pacific Solution in place. Even in the unlikely event that you are right (and the number of refugees coming by boat would have dwindled anyway), there was still no need to abolish the Pacific Solution because it wasn’t doing any damage – only a few people were then in detention.
Dianne lots of people try to argue that Howard’s Pacific solution didn’t stop the boats. Look at this graph. Maybe you could argue that it was merely a co-incidence that the boats stopped shortly after the Pacific Solution was introduced, but you also have to explain why they increased exponentially after Rudd abolished that policy.
What howard did was to make the trip more dangerous for a family. Previously, men would come by boat and if granted asylum they would then have their family join them under the family reunion policy. Howard only granted TPVs and ceased the family reunion which meant that women and children then had to undertake the dangerous journey.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/04/17/why-andrew-bolt-should-be-sodomised-with-a-calculator-%E2%80%93-part-142/
…We can say, confidently, that changes in the numbers of global asylum applications granger cause the changes in the numbers of Australian asylum applications.
We can say that global levels of asylum seekers, and the global trends they create, do indeed significantly affect Australian asylum application numbers, and come as close to causing those numbers as one can statistically get.
So Andrew Bolt should shut the fuck up and stop spreading bullshit around when it is very clearly not true.
In fact, so seriously pathetic is this broader argument of his that we only need to look at the yearly data to clobber it…
“It’s a masterstroke by Rudd.
He’s F**KED Abbott!”
Well Newspoll now has 2pp at 52 to 48
The ALP went backwards last week.
What did I say about the “gloss” wearing off ?
Thanks Armchair. You did a great job arguing the case.
Politicians like Howard and others after him have turned the asylum seeker matter into a Gruffalo monster. Now they have to be seen to be battling it to save the nation. I suspect that Rudd has gone too far with the PNG ‘solution’.
Monsieur Posterieur,
I detested Howard and that could have coloured my judgement but I could never see why the ‘Pacific Solution’ would ever work despite claims made for it.
The counter argument is that refugees numbers dropped worldwide at that time as Armchair’s stats show.
But even before such stats it would have been glaringly obvious that Nauru was an interim measure, an unpleasant sojourn until your family was accepted into Australia.
Rudd’s upping of the ante by denying that access is a clear indication that years of incarceration in a hell hole is not deterrent enough to people fleeing in fear of their lives. not if they believe they will eventually come to Australia.
In a strange way I think Rudd has now damaged himself. He has pulled away the veil which allowed people to think that we were treating asylum seekers humanely while they were being processed. It took time didn’t it? Queue jumpers. No papers. Could be terrorists. Yadda. Yadda.
Now our Dear Leader has slammed the door and the only pretense we have left is that we will maroon desperate people in PNG to save others from drowning at sea.
Well I wonder if that is going to work? Refugees everywhere take extraordinary risks and face years in camps rather than stay in their own country and die.
For that reason I do not believe the boats will stop in significant numbers.
Further to above
16 year old unaccompanied Hazara boy on ABC this morn said he could not go back to Afghanistan, he could not face years of limbo in Indonesia, he would get on a boat even if that meant PNG.
“Thanks Armchair. You did a great job arguing the case.”
What argument? Quoting Crikey aka Cretin Central is not an argument. Quoting a washed up hack with a single digit IQ like Carlton at least adds humour to the discussion, but no logic at all.
The fact remains that even if you accept that there is some doubt over whether it was the Howard policy that reduced arrivals (and I don’t), there was no need to abolish the policy in 2007 as it wasn’t doing any damage. That was pure hubris.
And the fact remains that when the policy was abolished, arrivals increased exponentially and in much greater numbers than the the increase in refugees world-wide.
KL’s “great job” didn’t address either of those points and is more like the “great job” I did in the small room this morning.
No argument from me on hubris and politicking sb
‘Fkn egg, egg … talk about fkn, Flip Flop … ‘
Scuse me your lordship, I’m a free finker and bend with the breeze. At the moment, on principle, informal is still the best option but general speculation is permitted.
Re – Latest Newspoll
Rudd has plenty of faults, but the ALP with him at the helm –
*doesn’t have Gillard’s clear record of dishonesty, or
*Abbott’s adventurist and potentially dangerous policy on asylum seekers, or
*Swan (or Hockey) blustering
Abbott will struggle in a campaign as –
*He is inarticulate in debates and doesn’t think well on his feet or under pressure
*Business prefers ALP policy on carbon emissions, and on parental leave.
*Business won’t be falling over themselves to fund/support the Liberal campaign
*Abbott looks risky
*Rudd looks Prime Ministerial, and the quality of his front bench is well ahead of the Coalition
Therefore – it’s a narrow win to the ALP.
Be interesting to see Tom. I don’t think Rudd looks very enticing at the moment. The cherubics are quite flushed and the silver aureole looks as if fingers have been tugging at it. Why would anyone want that job. I would use the Catch 22 block: anyone craving the position is clearly not sound enough to have it. But what would a meek and mild scrubber from the suburbs know? Ah but perhaps I am an intellectual like the rest of you. Tee hee.
“Therefore – it’s a narrow win to the ALP.”
I sincerely hope so…
“Abbott will struggle in a campaign as –
*He is inarticulate in debates and doesn’t think well on his feet or under pressure
True
*Business prefers ALP policy on carbon emissions, and on parental leave.
Partly True
*Business won’t be falling over themselves to fund/support the Liberal campaign
Coalition will be well funded even if not as well as if Gillard was his opponent
*Abbott looks risky
True. He is completely incoherent – doesn’t make sense most of the time and when he does it isn’t in a good way
*Rudd looks Prime Ministerial, and the quality of his front bench is well ahead of the Coalition”
Rudd looks more Prime Ministerial but is also at risk of imploding. His front bench is better, but still has problems
Still too close to call. If Abbott wins he will disappoint a lot of his supporters.
*Rudd looks Prime Ministerial, and the quality of his front bench is well ahead of the Coalition”
Charismatic authority is infectious, so Kev’s new front bench will likely step up to the mark.
‘Charismatic authority’ – Egg are you chuckling to yourself?
Business will attack Abbott’s parental leave scheme, carbon abatement policy, and people generally will get bothered about spending cuts.
All of the ALP’s weaknesses are already fully disclosed and debated. Not so with the Liberals.
Therefore any further movement in public sentiment is likely to be against them.
========
We’re all intellectuals here Dianne…and it’s not just wanting the PMs job that is proof of insanity, all of them look to have a personality disorder.
sb,
What argument? Quoting Crikey aka Cretin Central is not an argument. Quoting a washed up hack with a single digit IQ like Carlton at least adds humour to the discussion, but no logic at all.
Nor do you argue your case … if you look closely at your statement above … you’re attacking the source (“man”?) not the argument … eg the graphs …
As for the remainder of your post … you’re simply repeating that Howard was right and Rudd was wrong … opinion …
Quite frankly if the country wasn’t now slipping back to the 1930’s (if we ever left it) on issues of migration/refugees/asylum the simplest way to stop the boats sinking and to stump the people smugglers completely would be to FLY refugges/asylum seekers here from Indonesia after processing … that’s the humanitarian solution … you could reverse the process and fly in, process and then ship home those who don’t qualify … 90% of them do – even under Howard’s Pacific Solution …
What the Liberals have done is create a web of (false) fear in Australia that the ALP has to somehow control/counter by pandering to the loudmouthed rednecks in the community …
… shall I repost my list of boat people myths?
Dianne, I’m a big fan of Max Weber.
“ALP has to somehow control/counter by pandering to the loudmouthed rednecks in the community …”
The people don’t need a different government, the government needs a different people. 🙄
Brilliant observation IPA.
TB: “you’re attacking the source (“man”?) not the argument … eg the graphs”
Really? I raised the following two points:
The first applies irrespective of the graphs – there was no need to change the policy.
The second point is evidence that push factors are not the decisive factor at all.
We need to liquidate loudmouth rednecks.
Problem solved.
Liquidate rednecks seems like a good idea.
Perhaps just dust off ‘the Brisbane line’ and kick those north of it into a redneck nation. Or better still, make it into ‘the Newcastle line’
The natural inclination of leftist governments is not to act according to the will of the people, it is to bend the will of the people to suit the government. “Enlightened” leftist governments can’t “liquidate” “rednecks” any more, so they try to change them.
Rednecks are human too, along with those green people. If we could somehow attract the latter to the northern regions it would have an ameliorating effect on both.
And the fact remains that when the policy was abolished, arrivals increased exponentially and in much greater numbers than the the increase in refugees world-wide.
Where is that fact to be found, specifically that increase in numbers to australia was greater than global increases?
Nor do you argue your case … if you look closely at your statement above … you’re attacking the source (“man”?) not the argument … eg the graphs …
Thank you TB, pleased you noticed that there was some factual evidence amongst it, grarfs and stuff! I don’t think that sb has put up anything other than his ideology, opinion and disparaging comments.
Don’t worry about giving him the myths TB, he still wouldn’t ‘accept’ them, you could bury him alive in evidence and he’ll still be screaming “show me the evidence”. It’s the conservative mind, you know, the pre evolution chimp brain. The more evidence he gets the more defensive, emotional and rejecting of it he will get.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney?page=1
http://www.aph.gov.au/about_parliament/parliamentary_departments/parliamentary_library/pubs/bn/2012-2013/boatarrivals#_Toc347230710
Boat arrivals in Australia since 1976:
…Boat arrival numbers in Australia have fluctuated significantly over the last 30 years in response to global events. With predictions that further instability in countries like Afghanistan will result in increased displacement in the coming years, it is likely that increased asylum flows into our region will continue for the foreseeable future.[105]…
What a fine and tolerant nation this would be, if we had ‘the Newcastle line’
While there would be slothful pockets (eg Canberra) and retention of Adelaide and Moe would cause a higher proportion of odd ball murderers, overall the civilised part of the country could do without-
*general rednecks
*mining rednecks
*farming rednecks
*dole bludging rednecks
*rural rednecks
The natural inclination of rightard governments is not to act according to the will of the people, it is to scare the people with hyperbolic exaltations about overstated boogeymen, from boat people to communists to homosexuals, misleading the people to suit the government.
conservatives= pantywetting panic merchants
“Rednecks are human too”
Rednecks are people who mightn’t necessarily agree with the prevailing “wisdom” of urban elites.
You forgot to mention that, generally, the reason that they ‘mightn’t necessarily agree’ is borne out of ignorance of facts & a narrow worldview borne out of existing in a microcosm.
I’m no ‘urban elite’, but I’m definitely not a redneck. I just live amongst many of them.
In support of rednecks, its the tyranny of distance that has made them so…
They need to feel apart of the whole, not marginalised by southerners, so may I suggest interconnectedness.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/07/elon-musk-hyperloop/
(hat tip to IPA for that link)
“You forgot to mention that, generally, the reason that they ‘mightn’t necessarily agree’ is borne out of ignorance of facts & a narrow worldview borne out of existing in a microcosm.”
Stoopid rednecks can’t help it if they’re dumb. 🙄
All of the multitude of rednecks I know are cool…as long as you’re not brown/yellow/red, don’t speak with an accent, aren’t gay or averse to shooting anything which has legs & moves.
I have no problems with them. I know how to speak their language. They’re still ignorant rednecks though.
“Stoopid rednecks can’t help it if they’re dumb”
Ignorant isn’t the same as dumb.
Neither is uneducated.
It has more to do with narrow horizons than anything else.
But, keep on waving their pom-poms for them. I suspect you don’t run into too many.
Much less chance of an Abbottian landslide of tragic proportions, than a few months back, eh, reb? 🙂
Can only be a good thing.
Rednecks and deniers are kindred spirits. Put them all in detention, they should be more marginalised.
Rednecks are people who mightn’t necessarily agree with the prevailing “wisdom” of urban elites.
They don’t agree with any wisdom, is there such a thing as a wise redneck?
They are ‘wise’ about different things.
Usually know how to skin things really well, for instance.
Social conscience wisdom, not so much…
“I suspect you don’t run into too many.”
I wouldn’t call/class someone (as) a redneck. So no, I don’t.
Cute evasion.
Q – is there such a thing as a wise redneck?
A – Tony Windsor, apparently
“is there such a thing as a wise redneck?”
Hmmm…
That did have me thinking for a while.
And then I concluded.
“No.”
I think there are plenty of “intelligent” rednecks – Andrew Bolt, George Brandis, Scott Morrison etc…
In the respect that they can read and write.
But that doesn’t make them “wise.”
I mean, we can teach primates to draw, so the bar isn’t set particularly when it comes to “intelligence..”
But, keep on waving their pom-poms for them. I suspect you don’t run into too many.
Only the ones who would use them as ‘useful idiots’ for their own profit driven purposes.
I wouldn’t call/class someone (as) a redneck. So no, I don’t.
no, apparently every ‘opinion’ is as equal and valid as a fact, therefore there is no such thing as ignorance and bigotry.
I see red-necked people.
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“therefore there is no such thing as ignorance and bigotry.”
The irony, it burns.
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“Where is that fact to be found, specifically that increase in numbers to Australia was greater than global increases?”
The Australian figures are in the Boat Arrivals document you linked to above.
Specifically the lowest increase in arrivals in the relevant period was 4,000% in 09/08 (taking 07/08 as the base year) and by 31 Dec 2012 had increased to 95,168%.
Now you (or at least any sane person) would think that that is a lot more than the increase in global refugees in the same period and indeed if you look at the UNHCR numbers (Fig 1 on p.6 and Fig 2 on p.7) the Australian percentage increases absolutely dwarf the increases both in newly displaced persons and in total refugees and displaced persons over the same period.
For example there were 25 million refugees/displaced persons in 2008. A 4000% increase in 2009 would be 1 billion refugees/displaced persons. In fact the number was still 25 million in 2009. The 95,168% increase over 2007/08 numbers we saw in Australia in the most recent period to 31 December 2012 would see the global number at 23.8 billion. In fact it was 28 million, a 12% increase.
Red necks used to be called blue collar, salt of the earth or just working class. When they stopped voting ALP they became bogans and red-necks in the eyes of the “intelligentsia”.
KL, my injury has healed and normal transmission has resumed. 😀
“Red necks used to be called blue collar, salt of the earth or just working class.”
I profoundly disagree. Blue collar or working class people traditionally voted for Labor.
Red necks are almost always conservatives or Tory supporters. Take a look at Scott Morrison, Nick Minchin, Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones etc – all red necks.
I think you may be confusing red necks with white trash – which is the bogan contingent.
Also known as Queenslanders.
You could be right. reb. Especially about the Queenslanders. 🙂
Where does the likes of Deveney fit into that picture, then?
The Denialati will be kinder to you, young Kitty. Now that the asylum seeker thingy has been worked out we still have the plans for the Ord Concentration Camp on the books.
More like a big holiday farm, with a sprinkling of science and psycholgy lectures.
Did I give you permission to play with one of my adjectives again? 😈
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=88143.0
TeeBee’s been away, celebrating the birth of Prince Interbreed…
Grrrrrrrrrrrr ….
😆
Conservativecave is a riot. 😯