Look it’s only Torture okay, Can we all Move on Now?
- Abbott praises Sri Lankan Government’s tactics for ending civil war
- Praise comes as Sri Lanka stands accused of war time atrocities against civilians
- Over 40,000 – 70,000 civilians killed, thousands more missing
- David Cameron demands investigation
In case you hadn’t noticed, our esteemed Prime Minister Tony Abbott has spent this weekend in Sri Lanka attending CHOGM; the annual Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting where the leaders of some of the world’s foremost developed nations get together to talk about important things like the global economy, poverty, war, and that sort of thing.
Unfortunately, whoever booked the venue this year forgot to remember that Sri Lanka doesn’t exactly have a stellar record when it comes to issues of human rights and equality.
You see, for the last thirty-odd years, Sri Lanka has been in state of civil war, which only finally ceased in 2009.
In the final months of the war, numerous reports of serious war crimes were made against the rebel Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (Tamil Tigers) and the Sri Lankan military.
The alleged war crimes include attacks against civilians and civilian buildings by both sides; executions of combatants and prisoners, enforced disappearances by the Sri Lankan military and associated paramilitary groups, acute shortages of food, medicine, and clean water for civilians trapped in the war zone, as well as child recruitment and attacks targeting civilians including suicide bombings.
The death toll for more than 25 years of conflict is estimated to be about 70,000.
However thousands more civilians were killed in the final stages of the war by the Sri Lankan military.
THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS MURDERED
Human rights groups state that more than 40,000 civilians were killed in the final months of the war while a government estimate says only 9,000 people perished.
Part of the difficulty in ascertaining final figures lies in the fact that few claims could be independently verified. Journalists and most aid groups were barred from the region.
A report commissioned by the UN in 2011 says it believed tens of thousands of civilians were killed in the final stage, adding that most of them were caused by government shelling.
SRI LANKA DENIES ALLEGATIONS
The Sri Lankan government has consistently rejected such figures.
The 2011 UN report also made several other allegations against the government and the rebels.
It said hospitals, UN centres and ships belonging to the international aid group the Red Cross were deliberately targeted by the army.
The Sri Lankan government stands accused of shelling a government-designated “safe zone” for civilians.
The report also accused the Tamil Tigers of using civilians as human shields, saying the rebels shot those who tried to escape. It also said that the rebels positioned heavy weapons in hospital grounds.
Sri Lanka has slammed the UN report as “biased and fraudulent.”
Human rights groups have also made public accounts of humanitarian suffering and video has also emerged apparently showing extra-judicial killings – all dismissed by the government as false.
As recently as yesterday, Sri Lanka remained resolutely defiant against calls for an independent inquiry into the alleged atrocities.
However British Prime Minister lashed out at the Sri Lankan government, vowing to press the issue with the United Nations if no progress is made by March, setting the stage for an international showdown.
“Let me be very clear,” Mr Cameron said. “If that investigation is not completed by March then I will use our position on the UN human rights council to work with the UN Human Rights commission and call for a full, credible and independent international inquiry.”
TONY ABBOTT: “SHIT HAPPENS”
Australia’s Prime Minister Tony Abbott was less forthcoming, stopping short of apologizing on behalf of Sri Lanka’s for its alleged war-time atrocities.
“We accept that sometimes in difficult circumstances, difficult things [like torture] happen” he said.
“The important thing is to act as quickly as you can to bind up the nation’s wounds.”
Mr Abbott also praised the Sri Lankan Government for the way it put an end to its three decade long civil war.
Three countries boycotted CHOGM this year because of Sri Lanka’s human rights record.
Canada, India and Mauritius all pulled out.
theguttertrash.com 
How typical of Tony Rumsfeld, proving that beyond any doubt that there’s more cunt in him than in a Swiss finishing school.
Tony Rumsfeld, I like that. But he’s probably Rumsfeldlite. Even the cannonfodder had turned on Rumsfeld before his quiet removal from the public eye (after decades of connivance behind the levers of POTUS).
Abbott, wishes he was a Big Name like Rumsfeld. He is like the buzzing of flies on the world stage (like most Australian PM’s). He only impresses the locksteppers at home.
Granted…he has ” proved that beyond any doubt, there’s more cunt in him than in a Swiss finishing school”.
I feel three years of difficult circumstances coming our way.
God help us all !!!
Cheers
Mick
http://www.cartoonmick.wordpress.com
‘God help us all !!!’
Argh!
I luv how “clean slate” Tony’s approach to dealing with difficult issues from the past, is to simply insist that everyone just move on as if nothing happened…
(Unless, of course, it has to do with his enemies, in which case their transgressions must be constantly dragged up and rubbed in our collective faces ad nauseum… For ever and ever and ever!
Amen.
The final weeks of the Sri Lankan war was a brutal and unnecessary slaughter, unbecoming a Buddhist state, but tones is correct in thinking we have to move on.
Nothing new on Packer’s casino in Serendib.
Move on with what?
Developing good international relations.
What is it with Abbott and all this so-called diplomacy? Who does he think he is,
Kevin RuddBob CarrHenry Kissinger?So we just forget about a Government murdering thousands of its own citizens in the name of “developing good international relations?”
I guess you’re a holocaust denier too egg…?
Regardless of what takes place in Sri Lanka, regardless of the level of human rights abuses, there’s going to be an international friend in Tony Abbott.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-16/abbott-boost-cooperation-on-people-smuggling-with-sri-lanka/5097132
Henry Kissinger is another Big Name, Abbott, wishes he was, but never will be.
Frankly, anyone trying to emulate Kissinger is below contempt. Lucky for Tones, pretending is as close as he’ll ever get. 🙄
Typically Reb you miss the point of moving on after such along period of civil war, both sides fought hard and with a vicious level of ruthlessness. Lets just be thankful that there was a very decisive victory for one side rather than the more usual UN sponsored stalemate that you minions of the left usually count as a success.
Now while some sort of “truth and reconciliation” thingo might be nice I tend to think that continuing to play the blame game will be pointless and solve nothing. So the best result for the people of Sri Lanka will be continued peace even if that peace is flawed and far from perfect its still orders of magnitude better than life was during the war for both the Tamils and the Singaliese.
Anthony Abbott, still impressing locksteppers, after all these years…
Now apply your twisted logic to the Jews, Inane.
“the way it put an end to its three decade long civil war.”
With the Sword.
Jesus fucking wept.
Tony Abbott rationalised like a ‘True Statesman ‘.
Interestingly, Canada’s Harper is a renowned conservative.
One wonders what Steyn is making of it all.
toiletcantankerousnightsoil
While you may think that peace talks and negotiations are always better than a decisive outcome I will suggest that all that happens in most cases of UN brokered deals is that there is a lull in the fighting and nothing is truly ended. the war in Sri Lanka is over so please tell us just what will be achieved by delving into the entrails of that thirty year war?
‘I guess you’re a holocaust denier too egg…?’
Very droll. It was a tragedy, know one is denying that.
It was the Buddhists who started the war by marginalising the Tamils and it became brutal and barbaric over 25 years. Killing thousands of innocent civilians and cadres just to kill the leader is unforgivable, but isolating Sri Lanka is not the answer.
If they had hired a US drone to kill the leader this disaster could have been avoided.
Typically, Inane ducks any scrutiny of his own misguided opinions with another demand on others to explain their own more sensible views… #tiredofmindlessunemployabletrollsonwelfare
“So we just forget about a Government murdering thousands of its own citizens in the name of “developing good international relations?”
I guess you’re a holocaust denier too egg…?”
Presumably we should sever all relations, or at a minimum denounce the government and people of Sri Lanka for their country’s shameful history. Do we then apply the same standards and subsequent response to every other country? What about China? Russia? England? America? Australia?
Reb
What scrutiny of my opinions?
In what way are my opinions misguided?
“In what way are my opinions misguided?”
There aren’t enough hours in the day, Inane…
One only has to go to your web site to see how misguided you are.
“If they had hired a US drone to kill the leader this disaster could have been avoided.”
The US only uses its drones to liquidate proscribed enemies.
The rest of the world’s antagonists can fuck off, apparently.
Yes, Inane, we should all just forget.
That’s certainly the preferable outcome for victors of all stripes.
Need I list all of the non-victors whose cause your ideological bedfellows are likely to have championed?
Bullshit Paul.
Stupidity is available direct to my inbox.
Yes, the ramblings of a true idiot.
‘The US only uses its drones to liquidate proscribed enemies.’
The LTTE was regarded by the US as a terrorist organisation, but they kept out of it and let the Israelis do the strategic ground work with material support.
Haha, reb is infamous for having featured in The Twilight Zone…
” kept out of it and let the Israelis do the strategic ground work with material support.”
Yeah, that’s kinda the M.O.
They only get publically involved when they can balance the difference between looking like they’re altruistic knights in shining armour, rather than opportunistic Exceptionalist strategists in manipulative cynic’s shrouds.
Same as it ever was…since they started ‘projecting’ their force globally.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Australia’s Prime Minister Tony Abbott was less forthcoming, stopping short of apologizing on behalf of Sri Lanka’s for its alleged war-time atrocities.’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
When it comes to ‘ ‘ ‘alleged war-time atrocities.’ ‘ ‘ the rest of the world don`t take any notice of teh-usa and its boot-licks since lraq/Afghan and Drones bombing Pakistan.
“like our learned friend and “Reb” from Gutter trash who seem to be able to achieve an otherwise impossible reconciliation between Islam’s attitude to homosexuality and their own advocacy for Gay marriage. ”
I suspect Inane doesn’t get out much.
China has been cultivating a good relationship with the Sri Lankan government for years, they want to build a navy base at the top end.
That’s why tones is generally supportive. “The important thing is to act as quickly as you can to bind up the nation’s wounds.”
Real Politik, Hurray!
I don’t doubt that the other side would be taking an almost identical stance.
The Chinese Dream includes military expansion.
Something Iain said is probably correct, ‘…in most cases of UN brokered deals is that there is a lull in the fighting and nothing is truly ended.’
When dealing with a tenacious enemy who will fight to the last man, then its bound to end badly. I have a greater understanding of why the Yanks dropped A bombs on Japan, to end the war quickly and decisively. The Sri Lankans were advised to do the same, with superior force.
Law of the Jungle it is then!
Terrific!
*facepalm
**your arguments remind me of ‘winner’s circle’ rationalisations.
Abbott’s comments prove that he is
a cuntunchristian.Mr-Rabbit will please the teabags,
and throw plenty of cash on the bonfire.
‘Law of the Jungle it is then!’
This is not the Garden of Paradise, get real.
‘Abbott’s comments prove that he is…. unchristian.’
Would you have him accuse the Buddhists of being barbaric? I think not, Realpolitik Rules.
‘…and throw plenty of cash on the bonfire.’
Two new patrol boats and transference doesn’t come cheap, but cheaper than having our navy floating about on the high seas searching for boats.
“So we just forget about a Government murdering thousands of its own”
First of all, based on what exactly? First hand reports from the “other” side? Look, that civil war was brutal like ALL CIVIL wars but why are you guys discussing this one when we can point to many other far worse examples of whole sale slaughter? Oh yes, because you seem to have this problem with boats. We have an ongoing drug war on the southern border of my country (which also happens to be the biggest supplier of illegal aliens) that has claimed anywhere from 60-100,000 lives in the past 6 or so years that makes Sri Lanka’s 30 year war look like natural causes!
I really don’t understand you “do-gooders”; such a hypocritical, tortuous way to try and understand the world…Piecemeal.
The point I am trying to make is if you guys had sound policy in this area instead of rhetoric this would all be a moot point (believe me, the USA is no better). I have just finished reading, Exodus: How Migration is Changing Our World. By Paul Collier.
This is an excellent read for any of you interested in the underlying elephant in the room on this post, immigration via whatever means (refugees, collegiate footholds, visa over stayers, illegal and legal). As you guys know and mostly don’t care, this is a very important topic for all Western Nations but one that usually descends into people calling you a racist if you oppose “mass unfettered immigration” or think unfettered multiculturalism is not such a hot idea. Hell if you dare to say “time out” on it at all you are castigated to the “white policy crowd”. Anyhow, take a look because as I have said countless times before, importing poverty and the problems of the developing world is hardly a solution to fixing it; nor does it make fighting poverty or problems at home any easier. Granted, the points made in this book will not make you feel warm and fuzzy like seeing smiling women with children and mostly young unemployed men get rescued and taken care of by the Australian taxpayers (who mostly don’t see where their money is going or are not paying at all) but still raises the questions many here simply can’t ascertain for themselves. THIS IS REALLY NOT ABOUT any civil war or human rights abuses. Tony is right, MOVE ON to the real topic….
Drudging up the past is tantamount to clinical “depression” in many ways. We should not forget the past but living in it is hardly a prescription for “PROGRESS”.
http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21586813-costs-and-benefits-mass-immigration-mobile-masses#
For those who are really interested in this topic and especially the Sri Lanka issues please see this complete lecture but if time is not allowed you will find starting at about a hour in more applicable to this post…
reb
Oh how badly your evasion reflects upon you Reb, it screams out the message that you possibly lack the ability to enunciate a proper answer.
paul
With Reb I am willing to think that he is just letting his emotions rule his intellect, you on the other hand I know are just stupid and bigoted in the way that only deluded socialists are stupid and bigoted.
Cheers Cabbages
Thanks for subscribing cabbages 😀 .
paul
Well how do you reconcile Islam’s attitude to homosexuality and gay marriage and your subsequent defense of the faith when ever I point to its murderous treatment of gays and you denounce me as both “homophobic and Islamophobic?
reb
Do you have some magic mind trick that allows you to achieve that impossible reconciliation? Come on, you hate me because I don’t believe in Gay marriage but otherwise have no issue with homosexuality so what precisely do you think about the way that Islam advocates death for those who are Gay?
egg
I’m glad that someone here gets my point. Long running civil wars are horrible and just stopping the guns may not even be a real and enduring solution. The LTTE was a truly fanatical organization whose members used to carry a cyanide capsule so that they could suicide rather than be captured alive. No war lasts thirty years if peace is achievable any other way.
“it screams out the message that you possibly lack the ability to enunciate a proper answer.”
Not really. I’m just not interested in wasting my time arguing with deadshits.
The Sri Lankan government should be congratulated for exterminating the LTTE leadership. The LTTE animals were early adopters of the tactic of using their children as suicide bombers. The world is a much better place without them. In fact the destruction of the LTTE should be a case study in dealing with terrorist groups. It is the most successful such effort in recent times.
Abbott’s job is first and foremost to secure Australia’s national interest. Moral grandstanding should be well down his list of priorities. In fact it may be that more can be achieved by a balanced approach and quiet diplomacy.
Sri Lanka does need to better integrate its society and restore the rule of law. But I doubt that it is going to take too much notice of the posing politicians who would burnish their “caring” credentials at Sri Lanka’s expense. If it is a choice between international condemnation and a revitalised LTTE or similar terrorist group sending their children to blow up themselves and innocent civilians, the Sri Lankan government has no real option but to take the heat.
Also Rhiannon is a stinking hypocrite – a supporter of the far more evil Soviet regime who went to Sri Lanka for a bit of posing and posturing so beloved of the Greens.
Reb
Nah that is just the excuse you use to avoid the hard questions for which you have no answer.
Frankly I thought that you were better than that.
In that case, I’m delighted to disappoint you.
I’m not interested in explaining common sense to redneck simpletons, especially when time and time again you just return to your default position of willful ignorance despite the best efforts of others to enlighten you.
‘Frankly I thought that you were better than that,’ said Mr Hall.
** Popcorn **
And I agree with splatter’s thoughts on this matter.
Reb
How can your position be “common sense”?
I’m not asking you to be my friend or anything like that, just an admission that the Gays have for more to worry about from the followers of Mohammad than a bloke who has no issue with homosexuals living and loving as they please.
In the darkest days of the war, the terrorists began cutting off the heads off opponents and sticking them on poles in downtown Colombo.
This Medieval practice was meant to intimidate the primarily Buddhist populace, but it had the opposite effect.
The end result is that now we see small roving gangs of Buddhists intimidating Christians and Moslems, telling them to take their mumbo jumbo and piss off.
WTF has that got to do with Tony Abbott and Sri Lanka….??
Yes Hall, everyone knows your position, just look at your site, your homophobic and hate Muslims, so what is the point arguing with a redneck who will not change his ways.
So, this is another “SHIT HAPPENS” quote from the Abbott.
Shit Happens
Warning: The brutality of war knows no bounds, so if you don’t want to start crying then I strongly suggest you concentrate on the local fight between Hall and the rest, skip this vid.
The usual, “attack is the best defence”, shift the discussion to drugs, other places, other issues, they did worse, so it makes it OK, right-wing rantings …
Here’s the issue (again): Do the 47% of Australian Coalition primary voters condone torture?
Answer: (At a guess) No
Question: Does Tony Abbott condone torture?
Answer: Yes
Question: Is Tony Abbott representative of the Australian People?
Answer: No
Question: Is Tony Abbott performing as predicted on the world stage?
Answer: Yes
Ye reap what ye sow
Indeed TB…
TB
How do you get Abbott condoning torture from this issue?
As i and others have pointed out it was a very brutal civil war with extreme nastiness on BOTH sides. Civil wars tend to be like that and there is absolutely no point in reheating all of the old animosities. The only thing that we should be judging is just how much better life is for the people of Sri Lanka NOW. Iam happy to concede that its not perfect but by any measure its better than its been for the last thirty years and with peace comes the prospect of better days for everyone there be they Tamil or Sigalese.
paul
I neither fear homosexuals or hate Muslims.
You are either the grossest hypocrite under the southern skies or you are too thick to realize that one can not be uncritical of Islam and endorse Gay marriage because the former is too antithetical to the latter for any kind of co-existence.
“Question: Does Tony Abbott condone torture?
Answer: Yes”
Only if you ignore the quote at the top of this post: “My government deplores the use of torture”
Does “deplore” mean “condone”, or the opposite?
“Question: Does Tony Abbott condone torture?
Answer: No
Only if you ignore the quote at the top of this post: “In difficult circumstances difficult things happen”
Anyone could be forgiven for reaching the conclusion Hall is obsessed with homosexuality…
Perhaps he doth protest too much…
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals
NTTAWWT.
😆
Well why on earth are you always critiquing homosexuals and the muslin religion, as has been said, your site is full of hate.
Paul and Hall seemed to be attached at the hip, a couple of straight men without a comic.
like it egg
Hall and myself go a long ways back, he is my secret lover and I am also a Muslim. 😉 😉 say no more.
“NTTAWWT”
Repression does, however, lead to a cognitive dissonance, venomous tirades, vexations protestations of family values, a wide stance in the cubicles and some very interesting fantasies.
” he is my secret lover”
I thought Ray Dixon was Hall’s secret lover…
https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Iain_Hall
Torture Rules, OK!
* except when the baddies visit it upon us (inherently the goodies) OK!
“he is my secret lover and I am also a Muslim”
Hall and Paul aka Homohammed and Da’wood Jablomi.. 🙂
On homosexuality, and whether Iain Hall would become gay if his child did:
Smart thinking Hall
As usual Paul you quote me out of context.
The original post, which I expect that you have never read is here:
http://iainhall.wordpress.com/2007/01/08/why-are-some-people-gay/
My argument was not at all about me “turning Gay” but about the dilemma that any parent would face were it possible to make a Gay offspring straight.
I was posing a philosophical question and i am entirely unsurprised that its too difficult for you to comprehend.
Oh Hall, you just do not get it do you, you said it, you live with it.
So you are now comparing sheep to homosexuals now, you have completely lost it now.
Paul
that post was back in 2007 and it was the original source material that was considering homosexual behavior in sheep not I.
Are really so dumb that you can’t tell the difference between a quote and a comment on that article?
Your quote on homosexuality, do not need to go any further.
Try a sentence that makes sense please paul
you are so stupid hall, try reading your own web site, it was your quote, you live with it.
You said; would you actually turn gay if your daughter would, to me it plain simple.
Despite the clumsiness of my 2007 prose It is not saying what you suggest at all paul I am clearly considering would I change my child not myself.
In any event how does that prove your thesis that I hate homosexuals?
likewise how do you explain this post:
http://iainhall.wordpress.com/2010/12/20/senate-vote-yesterday-that-will-allow-gay-men-and-women-to-serve-openly-in-the-us-military-for-the-first-time/
LOL splatter.
Yes, Hall accuses me of using a back dated articles to say how stupid he is, now he is doing the same to try and defend himself of him not being homophobic , the hypocrisy.
But Hall, you said it. You said would “I” change, not change your daughter, End of story.
Yes,I know it is torture arguing with Hall, just as it is torture listening and reading about the Abbott.
Apologies for derailing the topic. Hall should know better as well.
If Hall is so ambivalent about homosexuality, as he would attest, why is he so obsessed with blogging about it?
Your link above is very true, about people being homophobic.
And he also says he like Muslims, but his web site says otherwise.
Haterz gotta hate Paul, what else would he do? It’s not like he’s employable or useful in any other sense….
😆
How many people does he hate, everyone bar Piggy Dixon and GD, aka Nigel Hanley
I wouldn’t let it bother you Paul… He craves the attention, it’s all he’s got left to look forward to being a failure in every other aspect of his pathetic existence..
It doesn’t bother me actually, just proving that he is a bigot and racist to everyone, I have shown other people his web site and they think it is disgusting as well.
Everyman has at least one redeeming feature, even Hall.
Found one …
‘Iain Hall fancies himself a homespun expert on the topic. Iain Hall dismisses pro-AGW scientists as ‘Warministas’ and labels anyone who accepts the concept of AGW as a religious fanatic.’
It’s probably his beard…although rangas get points deducted, obviously.
If it’s not that, it’s his declared atheism.
Maybe it’s his Noddy Car?
Still pictures of it do nothing to prove that it is, in fact, mobile.
So I don’t think it’s the noddy car…
So “deploring” torture but “accepting it” in some cases is OK?
Does that apply to other issues too … Lying? Cheating? Decieving? Armed robbery? Murder? Rape? Peodophilia? Boat people?
And this hypocrisy is defended or joked about by other hypocrites … 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄
Praise the lard and pass the butter …
So “deploring” torture but “accepting it” in some cases is OK?
Exactly TB! And the usual Abbott apologists come running to his defence…
*Except Snacty of course, who must be busy suing somebody or something…
Presumably if Electricity Bill was running the show he would have said the same, because they are advised by the bureaucrats to cultivate neighbours and not create international incidents at CHOGM.
And just for a “giggle” is this torture acceptable in some cases too?
http://www.news.com.au/national/beaten-raped-starved-by-the-church-an-australian-story/story-fncynjr2-1226762348990
Jesus wept … suffer the little children to come unto me … but please keep them away from the church …
Presumably if Electricity Bill was running the show he would have said the same,
Presume, assume and guess all you want … he didn’t say it … Tony Abbott did …
Had the Opposition Leader been PM and made similar comments then too would have been a prat …
Then in your mind he should have stayed away from CHOGM and said nought about anything?
My mind has got nothing to do with hime being a prat … he does that all by himself … every day in every way …
Pass the plate, please …
He’d be a prat saying nothing …
For he sayeth naught and people believe him …
“For he sayeth naught and people believe him …”
Exactly TB!
What has Abbott actually achieved since winning office except for repeating a few three word slogans ad nauseum…?
This isn’t a govt, it’s a charade of lofty amateurs who now find themselves in the unfortunate and challenging circumstances where problems can’t be solved with 3-word slogans…
Amazingly people like egg and Hall remain mesmerised by the magic… Poor deluded individuals that they are….
🙂
Yea, for the truth shall be fire in the hands of the few …
Look, people, Abbott’s in the lodge and we’re not happy about it, okay?
Looks like most ALP supporters want Abbott to fail. I think the loyalty of ALP voters is 1.ALP and 2.Australia.
Morally we should have joined the boycott, after all its only CHOGM, but we run the risk of upsetting a fairly close neighbour. There is the matter of asylum seekers to sort out and also telling the Chinese that Sri Lanka has friends.
If we turn our backs on Serendib because of the atrocities they committed, then the Chinese would take advantage of a vacuum.
Whenever tones makes a gaff I’m assuming Cred’s not around.
Thank fuck Q&A is from India tonight. They’re bound to put shit on Sri Lanka.
Or not.
Looks like most ALP supporters want Abbott to fail
🙄 🙄
It would be nice if he could perform … if he does, he’ll get the credit but so far he’s just crumbled at every turn (he’s actually created more problems that he’s solved) … idealogy has nothing to do with it …
He didn’t have to say anything about torture at all …
Have ye heard the word is love …
Interesting piece in the Oz with former Foreign minister Bob Carr endorsing the gift boats decision.
the bold is mine.
‘he’s actually created more problems that he’s solved’
He came to power promising to fix two festering sores, asylum seekers and climate change. From where the electorate is standing, he’s doing remarkably well.
” From where the electorate is standing, he’s doing remarkably well.”
COMEDY GOLD!
No Reb Egg is spot on, Under Abbott the boat arrivals are down by 75% and the bill to repeal the carbon tax has been introduced as promised.
Even the confected outrage about the CHOGM is not playing to the ordinary people the way that you see things in this piece.
The Indonesia hoo har is likewise not playing badly for Abbott either simply because it is yet another example of a mess made by the previous government having to be cleaned up by the LNP.
You forget, or fail to understand, that your inner city sensibilities are just not shared my the majority of voters,maybe you need to get out more yourself 😉
In August 2009 Tony Abbott was shadow minister for Indiginous Affairs. He should have done something about this then. Didn’t he realise he’d be prime minister in four years and this would come back to bite him?
(Uh oh, wrong thread.)
‘maybe you need to get out more yourself’
I’ll put the popcorn on.
Not about giving Sri Lanka obsolete patrol boats…
Its about accepting torture in “certain” cases … it is not acceptable …
Evil exists etc … even on Abbott’s watch …
I’d love to see a poll … but the journos must be on strike or holidays or sumfin’ … or just gagged by highly paid Robber Barons in the USA … 😉
It is amazing…Despite what side of the pond your on, politicians are politicians…They are adept at keeping the the masses squabbling about the usual topics. Why are you guys discussing “purported” torture in Sri Lanka anyway; during a civil war of all things? Are you under the impression the Tamil’s didn’t do much of the same? Trust me, I know more than a few now in Canada, they don’t even claim the high ground on this topic..Anyhow.
“Its about accepting torture in “certain” cases … it is not acceptable …”
LOL
I trust you will be cancelling your Vietnam holiday immediately in protest at their human rights abuses.
Oh…………I forgot we dont hear much about those sort of things out of Hanoi
I suppose ya gotta accept that “shit happens” and get on with things
So what’s a better approach then ?
Having say the British PM landing on our shores and in a keynote speech telling the Australian Government (by proxy the Australian people) what a bunch of arseholes we have been in the way we have treated our indigenous peoples.
Gee that would go down well wouldn’t it ? No one would be angered by that would they ?
Because that’s pretty much what David Cameron did in Sri Lanka. He basically insulted the entire nation.
It appears Abbott likes the softly softly behind the scenes approach which he has adopted with success with Indonesia and Sri Lanka so far.
That is until the revelations of what that Dickhead Rudd authorized back in 2009 in relation to SBY.
And is there anyone much condemning Ed Snowden over this. It seems all he’s done is hand over his info to the Russians who are letting bits of it “leak” to weaken relations between any Nations it chooses.
The only winners in this are the Russians
‘It appears Abbott likes the softly softly behind the scenes approach which he has adopted with success with Indonesia and Sri Lanka so far.’
Hear Hear!
Nice to see you back in the office.
“Nice to see you back in the office.”
Thanks Egg
I’ve been lurking.
I gotta say though of the sample of 8 tuk-tuk drivers I/we used during my recent visit to Sri Lanka all but 1 praised the leadership and were very optimistic about the future.
They pointed out new construction of hotels and other infrastructure as examples of the benefits that have come since the civil war
“Its about accepting torture in “certain” cases … it is not acceptable …”
A good statement for public posturing, but it is too broad. What is torture? Waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was fine in my book. An officer discharging a gun next to an insurgent to get him to give up information to save your men – not so bad. Doing what the Vietnamese communists did to their POW’s – not acceptable. Che and Castro murdering prisoners deemed to be members of the bourgeoisie – not acceptable.
The gravity of torture varies dramatically from case to case. A lot of what is alleged against the Sri Lankan government in ending the LTTE reign of terror is at the bad end of the scale. But compared to the LTTE they are the good guys. Those Sri Lankans responsible for real war crimes should be brought to account, as should those who enabled the LTTE, especially expatriate Sri Lankans who supported and funded them.
If the LTTE choose to fight among civilians and use them for cover and civilians are killed, that is primarily the fault of the LTTE, not the Sri Lankan government
What gets me is the selective screeching of the left. Where is the campaign to bring Castro to justice? Or that great supporter of the Farc, Hugo Chavez. Or the Palestinian leadership? Somehow I don’t think I’ll be hearing Lee Rhiannon leading a campaign to do anything to bring them to justice.
It appears Abbott likes the softly softly behind the scenes approach which he has adopted with success with Indonesia and Sri Lanka so far.
What is torture? … The gravity of torture varies dramatically from case to case … But compared to the LTTE they are the good guys … Where is the campaign to bring Castro to justice? Or that great supporter of the Farc, Hugo Chavez. etc
1. Why mention “torture” at all?
2. If you do mention torture why “deplore” it and then” accept”?
3. If you don’t know what “torture” is then why argue the point at all?
4. Gravity? Torture is torture … obviously some torture is acceptable but not others depending on the “gravity” … Tony Abbott’s Handbook on Torture?
5. So “good guys” are allowed to torture?
6. Does every discussion have to be about idealogy? (although every discussion here revolves around Marxism just lately)
7. What happened to right and wrong?
Beloved, let us love one another …
“Torture is torture”
Torture is trying decipher meaningless inanities like that!
‘(although every discussion here revolves around Marxism just lately)’
Xi is a Marxist Leninist, bit hard to ignore the elephant in the room.
Torture is trying decipher meaningless inanities like that!
Better than being judge, jury and execuctioner.
What is torture?
Waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was fine in my book. Which book would that be? New or Old Testament?
An officer discharging a gun next to an insurgent to get him to give up information to save your men – not so bad. Not only illegal under Australia’s ROE’s but a proven waste of time and effort. It’s probably unlawful discharge of a weapon too. 😉
Doing what the Vietnamese communists did to their POW’s – not acceptable. One out of three.
Che and Castro murdering prisoners deemed to be members of the bourgeoisie – not acceptable. Two out of four ain’t bad … all are torture …
FYI, during VN we were told that if we were deployed and ever captured to simply tell the VC anything we knew … I was reliably informed its not really like any film you’ve ever seen or book you’ve ever read.
Interestingly, so far on this thread I’ve been stupid and inane … if it makes you feel better that’s fine … it just takes me longer to read the comment that’s all.
Xi is a Marxist Leninist, bit hard to ignore the elephant in the room.
We are talking about Abbott “deploringly accepting torture” on behalf of the Australian people in a speech on the world stage … not Xi or any other fkn i … and its easy to ignore the mouse squeak in the room …
‘We are talking about Abbott “deploringly accepting torture” on behalf of the Australian people in a speech on the world stage’
Oh really? You got a link for the words in inverted commas?
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/abbotts-torture-comment-sparks-response-20131116-2xnfl.html
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2013/s3893068.htm
http://www.themercury.com.au/news/breaking-news/please-explain-on-torture-shorten-asks-pm/story-fnj6ehgr-1226762388017
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/18/refugees-and-human-rights-abuses-we-cant-pretend-that-we-do-not-know
Oh you were joking … 😆 🙄
Perhaps I should have used *sarc … this is Gutter Trash … remember? 😉
The patrol boats are a bipartisan attempt to stop people smugglers.
‘Former foreign minister Bob Carr confirmed that the Labor government had considered providing the same assistance to Sri Lanka, saying it was ”sound policy”.
‘Mr Carr told The Australian newspaper that building Sri Lanka’s capacity to combat people-smuggling was something the previous Labor government had ”vigorously” committed itself to.
‘He also dismissed suggestions that the boats could be used to perpetrate human rights abuses.
”I can’t see how they could be,” Mr Carr SAID. ”There are human rights concerns with Sri Lanka, but you’ve got to be careful about adopting one narrative out of the civil war that lasted 35 years.”
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/no-restrictions-on-patrol-boats-gifted-to-sri-lanka-20131118-2xrd0.html#ixzz2l4jt2Sve
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘OK, right-wing rantings_’ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Here’s the issue (again):’ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Do the 47% of Australian Coalition primary voters condone torture?’ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Answer: (At a guess) No’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Disagree TB. The embedded-media `slant` on reports, and `stance` generally, has been as a teabag-apologist/cheerleader since John-W and friends trotted off to lraq and Afghanistan. This `bile` has been the day-in, day-out theme fed to the public, l would `suggest` a high proportion of them DO condone torture, (not_100%_tho), the limited-news troll-blogs had high levels of racist comments, which they have since pulled, as has facebook.
lf you notice the `bile` and `willful-stupidity` that the teabag/denier/anti-progress crowd use on the wp-blogs (yes lpad`osy who approves of slave sweatshops), you would also notice these `talk-points` are birthed from ipa/libnits/anal-jones/miranda-akerboltbrectsen
David Cameron seemed to get it aabout right.
No wonder he has a nice wife, although I think she could have done better for herself.
It’s amusing that the Lefties demand our political leaders express OUR outrage at Human Rights abuses by certain Nations but they are also not quite so angered or really outraged enough to stop loitering around as tourists in those same Nations.
Hypocrisy writ so large you’d need the moon to fit a suitable signboard up for it.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Tony Abbott has arrived in Sri Lanka for this weekend’s Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM), amid questions about’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘the arrest of a senior Sri Lankan navy officer over people smuggling.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
GUFFAW
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Fairfax media says Lieutenant Commander Sanjeewa Annatugoda, who was arrested for people smuggling in September,’ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘was once an adviser to Australia on how to stop human trafficking.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
GUFFAW
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘The Federal Government has not commented on’ ‘ ‘ ‘
STOP-TEH-QUOTES
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘what information it might have shared with Annatugoda, who has reportedly denied any involvement in people smuggling.
Foreign Minister Julie Bishop denies the arrest has undermined Sri Lanka and Australia’s attempts to stop people smugglers.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
SUPPLY SOME BOATS
+
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-15/sri-lankan-naval-officer-arrested-over-people-smuggling/5093590
+
The certainty is the teabag lunacy `will` continue.
And the certainty of your tenuous grip on reality continues Mr Cabbage Fart
Care to put a date on the origin of all those guffaws of yours. Or do the real origins of each problem predate 7 September. ?
Guffaw …
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘individuals who are most hostile toward gays and hold strong anti-gay views may themselves have same-sex desires, albeit undercover ones.’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘The prejudice of homophobia may also stem from authoritarian parents, particularly those with homophobic views as well, the researchers added.’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Sometimes people are threatened by gays and lesbians because they are fearing their own impulses,’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘In addition, it appears that sometimes those who would oppress others have been oppressed themselves,’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
.
This explains the large chunk of strange folk in Queensland,
is it still full of anti-fluoride cranks too.?
Cabbages
you keep insisting that all of us of a more conservative bent are just parroting the words and ideas generated by the peons of the conservative media. Its the stuff of nonsense to be frank and a rather shallow critique to boot. Now if I. or anyone else, were to insist that your opinions are all the product of your devotion to the Age , the Guardian, or even Pravda would you think that such claims were valid or true? Or would you tell us that your opinions were your own distilled from the entirety of your life experience?
The suggestion that strident critics of homosexuality are often themselves latent homosexuals is something that I tend to agree with however if you want to make that implication about yours truly you would be mistaken. In the first instance I am not at all a critic of homosexuality per se, I have always fully endorsed the right of every individual to love whom ever it is that rocks their boat regardless of the genders involved. Secondly my critiques are focused upon the Gay marriage issue and my consistent position is to favor civil unions to meet the needs of our Gay brethren.
Finally, as a socialist you may be good with the idea of mass medication by adding a poison to reticulated water supplies but as a libertarian individualist I am not so sanguine about adding fluoride to the water. If individuals wish to add fluoride to their diet they are more than welcome to do so but we grownups resent having the choice made for us. Fortunately for me personally its a moot point because I am not now nor am I likely ever to be connected to a reticulated supply.
“It’s amusing that the Lefties demand our political leaders express OUR outrage at Human Rights abuses by certain Nations but they are also not quite so angered or really outraged enough to stop loitering around as tourists in those same Nations.”
You mean, only people who support human rights abuses should feel comfortable loitering as tourists in those countries where they occur?
What weird twisted logic… 😯
‘I am not now nor am I likely ever to be connected to a reticulated supply.’
Being in the bush and all.
As it happens Egg I also support suburban housing having its own tanks and individual water supplies instead of building new dams (which tends to be problematic politically) it fosters two virtues, personal resource autonomy and water frugality 😉
Stuff all that, I like my fluoride direct.
well Egg all you have to do to get more than enough fluoride is to use a fluoride infused toothpaste a couple of times a a day. Is that too hard for you?
“What weird twisted logic…”
It sure is when you distort what was originally stated
It’s like saying that if you think that eating snails is cruel, then you’re a hypocrite if you holiday in Paris….
It’s also like saying you like Muslims and Gay but are continually ridiculing them.
If parents were a bit more vigilant about getting their spawn to brush their teeth, then there probably wouldn’t be any fluoride in metro water supplies.
Having said that, it’s an argument I have regularly with the pantswetting tinfoilers down the road in the nearest large population centre (who had fluoride brought online in the last half a decade)…and it’s just that, Pantswetting from the paranoid. It’s not too different to the antivaccination loons.
The world is full of internet amateurs who think they know better than those who know better for a living. 🙄
“those who know better for a living”
You must mean politicians, because scientists don’t make public policy decisions. I’ve got nothing against flouridation, but I’ve also got nothing against people querying political decisions that affect them, particularly when those decisions are made “for their own good”.
“I’ve also got nothing against people querying political decisions that affect them, particularly when those decisions are made “for their own good”
Indeed. Like SBY querying whether the Oz Govt tapping his phone is really for his own good as Abbott insists.
If you want to see how important flouridisation is go to Queenland.
The logo on their car registration plates should be…………….
“Bad Breath One Day and Rotten Teeth the Next”
Trailer Trash one day, Trailer Trash the next.
Walrus is onto it.
“those decisions are made “for their own good”.”
How about the ‘good’ of their children, whom they are too negligent to teach dental/oral hygiene to?
Honestly, it’s tinfoil hat loonism. But, there’s no convincing the paranoid. The types who allow preventable communicable diseases to keep a foothold, coz they think the One World Government Reptilians are adding microchips to every vaccine.
Whatever. Cranks gonna be cranks.
Stupid scientists/health professionals just don’t know what they’re on about. 🙄 I’m sure the Inanes of the world are far better placed to make public health decisions.
“How about the ‘good’ of their children”
Toilet
In my experience as a parent who knows lots of other parents very few of us are at all negligent about making our children brush their teeth, i know its part of my morning and evening duties to ensure that mine scrub their fangs.
personally i applaud the availability of effective vaccines in our society and I have had no problem with vaccinating my children its my choice but that is really quite a different issue to having some sort substance added to our water supply and it makes no difference how many white coats say its “for our own good” medication without explicit consent is an affront to our personal autonomy.
Just to please Paul and Reb would you feel the same way about something added to the water supply that would make sure that no one in our society would ever be Gay?
enough said about hall the better I think, that is one stupid comment about gays, and u said you have nothing bad to say about gays.
maybe something should be added to the water to stop idiots like you commenting.
unfknblvbl
Tooth decay is miles removed from homosexuality. Your mind works in mysterious ways.
The (virtually harmless) level of fluoride introduced into water supplies is for the many slack fucks who don’t have the self discipline to have their kids brush their teeth; probably don’t brush their own, for that matter. Not for people like you & me who do it (dare I say) ‘religiously’, Iain.
My current residence doesn’t have a fluoridated water supply. But I lived in a capital city for well over a decade & guess what? fluoride had no negative impact upon me.
Most anti-fluoride propaganda is indeed similar to the anti-vac crap. It preys on the same paranoias.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#Ethics_and_politics
“Like vaccination and food fortification, fluoridation pits the common good against individual rights.[26] Fluoridation can be viewed as a violation of ethical or legal rules that prohibit medical treatment without medical supervision or informed consent, and that prohibit administration of unlicensed medical substances.[3] It can also be viewed as a public health intervention, replicating the benefits of naturally fluoridated water, which can free people from the misery and expense of tooth decay and toothache, with the greatest benefit accruing to those least able to help themselves. This perspective suggests it would be unethical to withhold such treatment .”
“National and international health agencies and dental associations throughout the world have endorsed water fluoridation as safe and effective.[3][75] The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention listed water fluoridation as one of the ten great public health achievements of the 20th century,[76] along with vaccination, family planning, recognition of the dangers of smoking, and other achievements.[14] Other organizations endorsing fluoridation include the World Health Organization,[8][24] the U.S. Surgeon General,[77] the American Public Health Association,[78] the European Academy of Paediatric Dentistry,[79] and the national dental associations of Australia,[80] Canada,[81] and the U.S.[82]
Despite support by public health organizations and authorities, efforts to introduce water fluoridation have met considerable opposition. Antifluoridation arguments are, “often based on Internet resources or books that present a highly misleading picture of water fluoridation “.[
The Simpsons.
Not actually real life.
GUFFAW!
Now I get the opposition! Fluoridation is a communist plot! 🙄
* shakes head*…you guys…*facepalm*
Sydney Water also for public health reasons adds chlorine to the water to sterilise it.
Is that not a good thing or are some of you happier drinking animal shit ?
“Is that not a good thing or are some of you happier drinking animal shit ?”
We inner city types call it “organic water” Walrus….. 😉
This topic shits me, primarily because of the ignorami who want to come into Mum’s consulting room & argue with her about fluoridation & immunology.
They ought to fuck off & see a witch doctor or a snake oil merchant…but their kids don’t deserve their stupidity.
“We inner city types call it “organic water” Walrus….. ”
LOL
@ $7 a bottle you can even have good liquified Italian or French shit
I suppose some of you dont bother getting vaccinated when travelling overseas.
By the way have we had any mass outbreaks of small pox or polio in Oz this week ?
i.e. the proof is in the results
‘…maybe something should be added to the water to stop idiots like you commenting.’
** chuckle
It’s amusing that the Lefties demand our political leaders express OUR outrage at Human Rights abuses by certain Nations but they are also not quite so angered or really outraged enough to stop loitering around as tourists in those same Nations.
Waly, as usual missing the points.
1. Tony Abbott represents ALL Australians as PM not just those who voted for him.
2. The issue here has nothing to do with ideology left, right or centre (no matter how people try and paint it that way) … you’ve been reading my comments for many years now and should know that I (and a few others here you call “lefties”) were quite happy to criticise the Rudd and Gillard regimes – nor would we defend stupidity from them.)
3. The issue here is, Tony Abbott, even discussed ‘torture” let alone “accepted” it – it could possibly put Australian diplomats, ADF members and, yep, tourists at risk in the future. (Y’know – “… sorry, this is one of those occosaions your PM mentioned in Sri Lanka”)
4. As for “outrage” , no its not … its criticism of my PM making a fool of my country on the world stage … I was born just after WWII and I’ve been listening and seeing atrocities since … it does not mean I accept them, in fact quite the opposite!
5. Add to this Tony Abbott’s support of the national leader (for a personal agenda) of a very small nation with questions to answer over human rights (as do the Tamil leaders – if any are still alive).
6. Contrast the above with his disdain for the leader of our closest neighbour … if the President of Indonesia really was our friend then we have offended him and his immediate family badly … the Australian way, when you’ve pissed off a mate, is to nick around with a beer and say “sorry, mate, it was wrong …”
7. Indonesia is the largest muslim community in the world … really clever to piss ’em off right now … just makes us even more reliant on the USA … who isn’t flavour of the month in Asia right now …
8. Generally most human beings understand that to inflict pain on another person over whom you have power (eg a prisoner) is wrong … and eventually may be used against you, or your own people.
9. I do not take sides with ANYONE who inflicts pain on another person just because they can … I spent a childhood with one and didn’t/couldn’t stop the bastard beating my mother, until I was 22 … the next step from bullying (and a bloody close one) is torture!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Drinking flouride goes straight past teeth … it must be applied directly for effect … chewable tablets or tooth paste is far more effective for children and adults … flouride is a waste product and dangerous for older people because it affects their bone structure.
To compare vaccination and flouridation is a nonsense … you cannot self treat for the diseases protected by vaccines … you can for tooth decay …
We drink tank water … filtered into the tank via triple layerd organza (after a first flush tube) … we then filter via a Britax jug, boil and then final filter via a Royal Doulton ceramic filter … sweetest water ever …
‘The issue here is, Tony Abbott, even discussed ‘torture” let alone “accepted” it’
He spoke about it because he was asked about it. He accepted that it happened, he didn’t accept that it was right that it happened.
“My government deplores the use of torture [can’t be any clearer than that] but we accept [‘understand’, ‘know’, ‘realise’, ‘don’t deny’ all would have been a better choice of words, but accept in the context in which he used it means the same thing] that sometimes in difficult circumstances difficult things happen.”
Tony Abbott never said he condones or accepts torture. He deplores it.
He spoke about it because he was asked about it.
And that’s not the norm for this government … poor defence … why not his usual line “its not something I will discuss here” … or simply “we abhor any form of torture” … but no he had to prattle …
Still he(WE) has(HAVE) an even bigger problem now with Indonesia … I even agree with Bob Katter on this occasion … that’s a worry …
“Waly, as usual missing the points.”
No you are missing mine.
You Lefties all seem to demand that outrage be shouted from the rooftops. It makes you feel better when you visit places like Vietnam knowing your Leader has shouted them down for violations. You feel cleansed I’m sure
You cant accept that a softly softly approach might work better.
Abbott has done it for Sri Lanka and it was until now going OK with Indonesia until the Guardian and the ABC decided they’d had a gutful of seeing the possible or slowing of the boats.
Even senior Fairfax journos are now on the record hoping his policies will fail.
You Lefties seem to just love seeing the bodies pile up.
Its your “scoreboard” against the Right
“I mean spying on each other, yeah every country does that all the time, but not on the head of state and his wife.”
And how would Katter know ?
Surely they’d be prime targets. They are heads of government and she is known as being part of the “cabinet” as many wives are.
Lefty outrage is Twitter’s businesss model.
Walrus did you read the piece by Downer in today’s Oz?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/adversaries-emboldened-by-snowden/story-e6frgd0x-1226763763099#sthash.4q6NgJbj.dpuf
He makes the point that no western leader or minister with any sense uses a cell phone for any communication other than personal calls,
“Even senior Fairfax journos are now on the record hoping his policies will fail.
You Lefties seem to just love seeing the bodies pile up.”
Richard Ackland suggested that the Indonesians should encourage an armada of 50,000 refugees to ship out for Australia. Presumably he will be cool with the drownings when they start piling up from that exercise. He will probably follow Hanson-Dungheap’s approach to the murderous consequences of such policies – just shrug and say shit happens. What a dumb crunt he is.
‘And how would Katter know ?’
He doesn’t, Katter is just a political opportunist.
“He makes the point that no western leader or minister with any sense uses a cell phone for any communication other than personal calls,”
Yep
And Obama travels around the world with a Circus Security Tent in tow that apparently blocks all electronic eavesdropping
If only someone had been listening to Craig Thomson’s mobile he could have been proven innocent much earlier
🙂
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww !
The Left makes me want to throw up
http://www.news.com.au/national/labor-frontbencher-gary-gray-eats-his-own-hair-in-parliament/story-fncynjr2-1226764376149
“……..Drinking flouride goes straight past teeth … it must be applied directly for effect …”
— TB
This is from some cleanliness fanatical mob called the Columbia University College of Dental Medicine. Its published on some two bit company called Colgate website
“……….Fluoride helps teeth in two ways. When children eat or drink fluoride in small doses, it enters the bloodstream and becomes part of their developing permanent teeth. Swallowed fluorides also become part of the saliva and strengthen teeth from the outside. Acids are less able to damage tooth enamel strengthened by fluoride…………..”
http://www.colgate.com/app/CP/US/EN/OC/Information/Articles/Oral-and-Dental-Health-Basics/Checkups-and-Dental-Procedures/Fluoride/article/Fluoride-And-Your-Teeth.cvsp
But lets face it what the fuck would they know TB
LOL
And just how much taxpayer cash should be tossed on the bonfire opposing gay-marriage.? Which will `eventually` happen. You ran from this before.
“You ran from this before.”
Who is “You”?
You ran from this before lain.
Iain runs from everything, he has no answer.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘medication without explicit consent is an affront to our personal autonomy.’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
ln that case, you only buy raw produce and bake your own bread, and never consume any `packaged` foods of any type, coz they are all loaded with small quantity`s of chemicals, some of which are actually vitamins and other nutrients. Same for booze too.
#fluoridefreeanddressedtokillintinfoil
#themartiansarereadingmymind
#teabags
He’s an intellectual limpet sucking on the rock of bigotry and ignorance.
#bythewayldoubtfluorideisclassifiedasmedication
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Tony Abbott never said he condones or accepts torture. He deplores it.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
and a fine job he did of saving Habib and Hicks from torture at the hands of teh-usa too lpad`osy
#recent.history.bites.teabag.arses
😆
#measuringleftyoutrageontwitterisipadsbusinessmodel
#TAbbottdeploresacceptablethingsbutacceptsdeplorablethingsbecauseofthetransatmosphericprivacyinvaderhebowstowards
#fuckhicksandhabibtheywereofficialenemiesweweretoldtoignoresohowardcouldgethistrophyfromtheamericanrightwingthinktankaftermckewhandedhisarsetohim
#goingbackwardsthroughhistoryisateabagsantidotetonotjustprogressbutundergarmentsoiling
#fucktwitter
730reportland
As much as it takes 7.30, because it is the job of the Attorney General’s department to test such issues in the courts when the need arises. Especially if it is a matter of who has proper jurisdiction over such things
paul
See above i have given a definitive answer 😉
As it happens I buy as little processed food as I can and I am making informed choices when I do so. Reticulated water is so ubiquitous that no consideration or explicit consent is involved in its consumption. I am BTW a total abstainer from alcohol.
reb
Oh, you are awful , but I like you 🙄
Walter,
You cant accept that a softly softly approach might work better.
Spouting BS about torture is softly, softly? 😯
Refusing to apologise to our nearest (and dearest apparently) neighbour after insulting them is softly, softly? 😯
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But lets face it what the fuck would they know TB
Your convoluted reasoning often astounds me, Wally … I agree with Colgate used their products for decades … if you had cared to read my post and also comprehend this little sentence …
I have raised two kids five g/kids … I know the benefits of flouride … our children were given flouride tablets and brushed at least twice a day with flouride toothpaste …
My concern is the “one size fits all” approach of dropping flouride into “everyone’s” drinking water … with no consideration for people who may be allergic, those on medication (flouride is not a medicine) that can cause contra indications and as mentioned earlier … flouride affects the bone structure of older people …
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘with no consideration for people who may be allergic,’ ‘ ‘ ‘
+
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘those on medication (flouride is not a medicine) that can cause contra indications and as mentioned earlier’ ‘ ‘ ‘
+
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘flouride affects the bone structure of older people’ ‘ ‘ ‘
+
Really TB. Are you sure you`re not parroting denier/crank talk-points here.?
Fluoride is in such small amount, it does not trigger `side-effects` in medication, in fact, most medications instruct `patient` to take-with-water, knowing many water-systems have fluoride and chlorine (and a few other) chemicals in them.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘As much as it takes 7.30,’ ‘ ‘ ‘
translates to, as much cash as it takes, for the federal teabags to
.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘because it is the job of the Attorney General’s department’ ‘ ‘ ‘
the federal teabags have selectively chosen to
.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘to test such issues in the courts’ ‘ ‘ ‘
`test`, pigs arse, federal teabags attempting to trample states jurisdiction
.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘when the need arises.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
bullshit, federal teabags opposing and trampling is not a `need`, just the bonfire-ing of taxpayer-cash to bastardize gays for a little bit longer to please their idealogical egos
.
.
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Especially if it is a matter of who has proper jurisdiction over such things’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Courts work on `precedence` dopey. State/Colony jurisdiction has always had jurisdiction over birth,death, marriage, and their registers. Not the Fed-Govt.
“definitive answer”
All I saw was Gay bashing by a person who does not know what he is talking about or the issues involved.
Paul, what shitz me is the teabags scream about COST of things the nation will require in the future such as infrastructure, that the fools demand to `not-build`,
.
.
but then the looney, looney, teabags demand to throw unlimited quantity`s of cash on the bonfire to `oppose` things that could be done for `free`or near-zero co$t.
.
#sorry-day, done and dusted, zero-co$t,
#voluntary-euthanasia, NT was 1st in world, john-w`s teabags didn`t possess the Leadership to manage the situation, or provide `constructive` guidance and input into the system. lnstead took easy destructive position of `banning/over-running` NT wishes. So much for so-called democracy.
#gay-marriage, teabags are trying to run the same game-plan they used on V-E.
007
Dont Panic! Dont Panic!
read … with no consideration for people who may be … may is such an easy word to ignore … but my main objection to putting anything in the water supply and yes there is – over time – (did I say older people somewhere?) a concentration buildup that CAN affect some older people …
Now if they dropped a few gallons of bourbon in there … 🙂
As u said, they either want to spend on thing’s that the country does not need or want it like last year and spend a fortune.
7.30
Compared to some of the follies undertaken by the last Labor government exploring this matter in the courts will not cost a great deal at all.
.
You do understand that we have a conservative government elected to pursue a conservative agenda don’t you? That means a majority of voters quite rightfully expect that they will act accordingly in whatever forum necessary.
.
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The point is that the original federal marriage act exists because the states all ceded authority over marriage to the federal parliament, if there is any trampling being none here its by the jumped up Canberra town council.
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You forget or wilfully ignore the reforms to federal law that ensure that same sex unions are treated the same as heterosexual de-facto relationships it was a move that was universally endorsed by both the parliament and the vast majority of the population including me
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WRONG!!!!!
paul
Well that is your over developed confirmation bias kicking in paul. You have an almost limitless ability to let your personal prejudice about me blind you to what I actually say and to instead see what you think someone like me should be saying of they are as evil as you think them to be.
7.30
You confuse what is mooted by the Labor Party and their slip shod attempts at delivery with infrastructure projects properly planned and built by the Liberals
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Just because you personally don’t think an issue should not be explored or questioned in the courts does not make such things in valid.
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The Feds quite rightly thought that the NT had exceeded its authority with that bill and stepped in as the constitution allows
Marriage and its definition in law is a federal matter and the only reason jurisdictions like the ACT are trying it on is that they know that the chances of the federal government changing their position is close to zero now, just as it was under Labor.
Hall it is not my bias, you are dead shit racist
Paul
Do you know the difference between “bias’ and “confirmation bias”?
I don’t think you do.
As a matter of principle I vociferously argue that all human beings are equal in their humanity, and that means that I can not be considered to be at all “racisit”.
So when you write about you article about Muslims and their religion, that is not racism, bullshit, you have no idea about Islam. When you write about gays and the right to equality and say civil unions are the way to go, that is bullshit, you cannot see the difference, your arguments are from the fifties, as I have stated before, your site is full of racial comments from you and your redneck followers, what followers you have, is that 2.
“what followers you have, is that 2.”
Why do you worry about someone who according to you you has two followers??
paul
Islam is not now nor has it ever been a “race” it is a misogynistic, homophobic, religious ideology intent on creating a totalitarian global caliphate by the us use of intimidation and actual violence.you seem to think its all about Falafel and mint tea 🙄 For the record, like Christianity, Islam has followers from every ethnicity on the planet so that rather undermines your racism claims as well 😉
I love it when you type angry Paul, even though it makes arguments harder to follow It also makes them funnier! I assume that you are miffed by the fact that I draw a distinction between changing the definition of marriage but otherwise endorsing the freedom of all adults to live and love as they please.
Well find the citations to back up your claims of racism, I have friends and friendly dealings with people of all ethnicities paul and hatred or disdain because of ethnicity is just not part of my thinking. As to my “followers” I have a few more than two but I am not counting them or using them a yardstick for my writing which I do for my own amusement and entertainment.
Finally I am much more attracted to the thirties and forties to be frank because I like the cars better than the ones form the fifties 😉
Gawd struth … almost like Farnham Bear’s posts – admittedly without all the clipart and paste-ups – but they go on so much why bother reading them anyway …
Anyone who writes more than one long comment (over 12 lines?) a week should be banned for a week so we can recover … its a fucking blog for christ sake not a fucking magazine!
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘the states all ceded authority over marriage to the federal parliament’ ‘ ‘ ‘
got a link to that.?
show me the http://www.tas/gov.au link that says tassie handed over to the feds tassie marriage laws, but will retain the co$t and responsibility for operating the tassie register.
#teabags
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Compared to some of the follies undertaken by the last Labor government exploring this matter in the courts will not cost a great deal at all.’ ‘ ‘ ‘
WRONG. l am talking `specifically` about `specific-waste` regarding a `specific-topic` being done by a `specific-govt`,
(AND IT IS NOT related to in any way to ‘ ‘ ‘some of the follies’ ‘ ‘ previous watermelon or teabag govts actions.)
‘ ‘ ‘the states all ceded authority over marriage to the federal parliament’ ‘ ‘ ‘
I covered this shite weeks ago … the Feds DO NOT have authority …
If they did Brandis would not be going to the High Court … thick or wot! FFS!
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘the states all ceded authority over marriage to the federal parliament’ ‘ ‘ ‘
I covered this shite weeks ago … the Feds DO NOT have authority …
If they did Brandis would not be going to the High Court … thick or wot! FFS!’ ‘ ‘ ‘
Yes we did TB, but lain probably gets paid pennies-per-comment to continually flood blogs with teabag-denier talk-points, so he must willfully ignore all things previously posted by others and return to the same distortions and falsehoods and ignore all facts and truth, just like egg does.
Exactly cabbages!