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New Report Confirms Australia Hacked Phones of Indonesian Govt Ministers!

November 18, 2013

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Australia’s Federal Government spy agencies attempted to listen in on the personal phone calls of the Indonesian president, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, and targeted the mobile phones of his wife, senior ministers and confidants, according to a top secret document from whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The document, dated November 2009, names the president and nine of his inner circle as targets of the surveillance, including the Vice President, Boediono, who last week visited Australia.

Edward Snowden is a former contractor to the US’s National Security Agency (NSA).

When allegations of spying were initially raised by Mr Snowden, the Indonesian foreign minister, Marty Natalegawa, reacted angrily and threatened to review cooperation on issues crucial to Australia such as people smuggling and terrorism.

AUSTRALIA’S RELATIONSHIP WITH INDONESIA IN TATTERS!

These startling new revelations will add considerable tension to a relationship which is already strained due to the Abbott government’s policy to “turn back” boats of asylum seekers coming to Australia.

Also named as targets for the surveillance are Dino Patti Djalal, at the time the president’s foreign affairs spokesman, and Hatta Rajasa, the Minister for Economic Affairs.

The President’s wife’s phone was also monitored.

When questioned about the earlier allegations of spying, Prime Minister Abbott said that they occurred during the administration of the former Labor government, and that Australia’s activities were not so much “spying” but more a form of “research” and that its intention would always be to use any information “for good”.

Mr Abbott has repeatedly emphasised the crucial importance of the bilateral relationship between Australia and Indonesia.

Speaking after his meeting with Boediono last week, Abbott said:

“All countries, all governments gather information. That’s hardly a surprise. It’s hardly a shock.”

“We use the information that we gather for good, including to build a stronger relationship with Indonesia and one of the things that I have offered to do today in my discussions with the Indonesian vice-president is to elevate our level of information-sharing because I want the people of Indonesia to know that everything, everything that we do is to help Indonesia as well as to help Australia.”

Asked about the spying revelations in a separate interview, Abbott said:

“To use the term spying, it’s kind of loaded language … researching maybe. Talking to people. Understanding what’s going on.”

Indonesian foreign minister Marty Natalegawa has repeatedly said that spying risks damaging the trust between the two countries, and is frustrated by Australia’s refusal to say whether it is listening into conversations between Indonesian officials.

 

 

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96 Comments leave one →
  1. November 18, 2013 1:30 pm

    “Former foreign minister Alexander Downer earlier told Sky News that “this is a shocking situation,” and said that he holds whistleblower Edward Snowden – the source of these documents – in “the greatest of contempt.””

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/18/australia-indonesia-spying-revelations-live

    Alex is a bit dense, ain’t he?

  2. November 18, 2013 1:34 pm

    Alexandra’s always appalled and outraged. It’s his default disposition.

  3. IPA permalink
    November 18, 2013 1:43 pm

    The buck, on this one, stops with Kevin Rudd, spymaster.

  4. November 18, 2013 2:01 pm
  5. November 18, 2013 2:14 pm

    “We use all our information to help our allies, not harm them,” says the PM. #helpfulspying

  6. November 18, 2013 3:38 pm

    These actions have been going on for decades between most tech savvy countries.
    Nothing new, but officials must be seen to huff and puff publicly with as much indignation as possible.
    It’ll be interesting to see how Tony wriggles through this one.
    I reckon overseas eavesdroppers listening to some of our MPs, would shake their heads in disbelief before trotting off for a lot of stiff drinks.

    Cheers

    Mick
    http://www.cartoonmick.wordpress.com

  7. egg permalink
    November 18, 2013 3:48 pm

    A cyber war between Indonesian and Australian hackers appears to be heating up. There is a feeling we are going to lose this one.

    http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/11/17/ri-oz-cyber-war-heats.html

  8. November 18, 2013 3:52 pm

    “We use the information that we gather for good”

    Well, Abbott does presumably believe in a Celestial Privacy Invader, whom he apparently genuflects to. So, it’s entirely possible that he actually expects us to believe that quote.

    * GUFFAW…

    **He/We (The inherent goodies…not the brown people) absolutely, definitely wouldn’t ever use ill gotten information for our own self promotion or opportunist strategizing. No Sir, not ever, nuh-uh!

  9. November 18, 2013 3:53 pm

    #helpfulspying, the best kind of spying! The only kind of spying that We (the goodies) would ever undertake. Yes Sir.

  10. November 18, 2013 3:54 pm

    “The buck, on this one, stops with Kevin Rudd, spymaster.”

    Didn’t he retire a few days ago?

    Who is it that’s running the country again?

  11. November 18, 2013 3:55 pm

    #allspyingstoppedthedayLaborlostpower

    #TAbbottordersendtospying

  12. November 18, 2013 3:57 pm

    Edward Snowden. The gift that keeps on giving succour to our official enemies us a glimpse into what is being done in our name, with our consent never having been sought.

  13. IPA permalink
    November 18, 2013 4:02 pm

    “Didn’t he retire a few days ago?”

    Who was prime minister in 2009, Abbott or Rudd?

  14. IPA permalink
    November 18, 2013 4:03 pm

    #abbottisresponsibleforeverythingdonebyaustraliaever

  15. November 18, 2013 4:07 pm

    #waytomissthepoint

    #australiaonlyspiesunderlaborgovernmentseyeroll

  16. IPA permalink
    November 18, 2013 4:08 pm

    #spyingisonlyanissueunderacoalitiongovernment

  17. November 18, 2013 4:08 pm

    #whoisresponsiblenow

    #retrospectivelytryjohnhowardforwarcrimes

  18. November 18, 2013 4:09 pm

    #theobviousonlybecamepublicunderacoalitiongovernment

    #gosnowden

  19. IPA permalink
    November 18, 2013 4:11 pm

    #leftoidssilentonsecurityissuesunderlabor
    #leftoidsnowsquealinglikestuckpigs

  20. IPA permalink
    November 18, 2013 4:12 pm

    #usualhypocrisyfromtheleft

  21. November 18, 2013 4:58 pm

    #Icouldn’tgiveafuckaboutlabor

    #don’tmentionthewars

    #therightmirrorstheleftforhypocrisy

    #ifthemediadon’treportititmustn’thappen

  22. November 18, 2013 4:59 pm

    “The buck, on this one, stops with Kevin Rudd, spymaster”, squealed the pig which had been recently stuck.

  23. egg permalink
    November 18, 2013 5:29 pm

    Much amusement.

  24. November 18, 2013 7:43 pm

    So I guess if it was discovered that the Indonesian government was tapping into the personal phone calls between Tony Abbott and his wife Margie and his daughters, he would be perfectly ok with that….

  25. November 18, 2013 8:00 pm

    Hahahahah… Abbott has managed to fuck up our relationship with Indonesia!

    #EPICFAIL

  26. TB Queensland permalink
    November 18, 2013 8:17 pm

    …Tony Abbott and his wife Margie and his daughters, he would be perfectly ok with that….

    Only if it was for good …

  27. Walrus permalink
    November 19, 2013 11:51 am

    “These startling new revelations will add considerable tension to a relationship which is already strained due to the Abbott government’s policy to “turn back” boats of asylum seekers coming to Australia.”

    Always no mention of the tensions created by corrupt Indonesian officials allowing the the fucking boats to depart in the first place and the Indonesian Government doing fuck all to clean up their own corrupt system.

    If the Indos take this too far then its likely we’ll start to see public demands for foreign aid to be directed to other countries away from the Indos.

    Neither us or them will win from all this.

    Only the Russians.

  28. egg permalink
    November 19, 2013 1:49 pm

    China is wooing Sri lanka and Indonesia, XI was in Djakarta last month to sign a few deals.

    ‘The new level of cooperation already taken effect with a wide range of memorandum of understandings ware signed.

    ‘From manufacturing, fisheries, creative economic industry agreement to crucial infrastructure projects. And the very important currency swap deal worth 100 billion RMB or over 15 billion US dollars.

    ‘That should give a boost to the Indonesian economy..given it is suffering from a big trade deficit.

    ‘New cooperation in space and maritime cooperation were also announced.’

    CCTV

  29. IPA permalink
    November 19, 2013 2:19 pm

    “Guardian Australia understands from several intelligence sources that the defence minister would normally have to approve such high-level surveillance targets. That minister was Joel Fitzgibbon until June 2009, and then John Faulkner. Both have declined to comment.”

  30. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 19, 2013 2:25 pm

    “China is wooing Sri Lanka and Indonesia, XI was in Djakarta last month to sign a few deals.”

    China and Sri Lanka have scant regard for the human rights of their citizens and Indonesia isn’t too flash in that regard either. Australia should seize this opportunity to denounce this unholy alliance. We need a strong PM uphold Australia’s leadership role in the Asian region as human rights invigilator. Time to get out the megaphone, Tony and denounce these atrocious regimes.

  31. IPA permalink
    November 19, 2013 2:31 pm

    “Time to get out the megaphone, Tony and denounce these atrocious regimes.”

    Yeah, let ’em know there’s a new sheriff in town. (A Bush-style cowboy hat might make a nice touch while he puts ’em in their place. And boots too. With spurs.)

  32. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 19, 2013 2:46 pm

    Indeed, IPA. If Abbott seriously wants to improve Australia’s moral authority in the region he should appoint Lee Rhiannon as foreign minister.

  33. egg permalink
    November 19, 2013 3:33 pm

    chuckle

  34. Walrus permalink
    November 19, 2013 3:58 pm

    “If Abbott seriously wants to improve Australia’s moral authority in the region he should appoint Lee Rhiannon as foreign minister.”

    Ewwwwwwww !

    Everytime I see her she looks like she could do with a good wash

  35. November 19, 2013 4:33 pm

    It doesn’t sound as though Indonesia’s going to be on the receiving end of an apology any time soon…

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/11/19/14/13/aust-can-t-be-expected-tp-apologise-pm

  36. egg permalink
    November 19, 2013 4:42 pm

    In an amazing act of bipartisanship, Electricity Bill has had discussions with the PM and agrees to apologise on behalf of the Australian people. As it happened on his watch.

  37. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 19, 2013 8:07 pm

    Just paid a visit to the Cafe and they are already at “peak hate” for Abbott. In fact i think they hate him more than Howard.

    Beats me why Conservative politicians sends lefties into a frenzy.

    Would be interesting to see what they would have said if it was an Abbott govt caught listening to personal phone calls of the Indonesian President rather than the Rudd govt in 2009. I suspect they would be full of abuse for Abbott but have to take a different line since it was a Rudd govt doing the snooping.

  38. egg permalink
    November 19, 2013 10:09 pm

    ‘In fact i think they hate him more than Howard.’

    🙂

  39. egg permalink
    November 19, 2013 10:22 pm

    ‘Madam Speaker, I want to make it absolutely crystal clear that Australia has deep respect for Indonesia, for its government and for its people.

    ‘I regard President Yudhoyono as a good friend of Australia, indeed as one of the very best friends that we have anywhere in the world.

    ‘That’s why, Madam Speaker, I sincerely regret any embarrassment that recent media reports have caused him.

    ‘But Madam Speaker, it is in everyone’s interests – Indonesia’s no less than Australia’s – that cool heads prevail and that our relationship grows closer, not more distant.

    ‘I pledge myself to build the strongest possible relationship with Indonesia.

    ‘After all, due to its size, proximity and potential to be an emerging democratic superpower of Asia, it is the most important single relationship that we have.’

    Tony Abbott

  40. Walrus permalink
    November 19, 2013 10:36 pm

    “Beats me why Conservative politicians sends lefties into a frenzy.”

    LOL

    But it’s most amusing to watch and laugh at them.

  41. November 19, 2013 11:18 pm

    ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘It doesn’t sound as though Indonesia’s going to be on the receiving end of an apology any time soon’ ‘ ‘ ‘

    Indonesia will drop our `beef` and take-up Canada or teh-usa beef, and Mr-Rabbit will rapidly return to `all-fours` diplomacy.

  42. egg permalink
    November 19, 2013 11:34 pm

    Why does the left have such a dismal view of life?

  43. IPA permalink
    November 19, 2013 11:36 pm

    Leftoids aren’t happy unless they’re unhappy.

  44. November 19, 2013 11:37 pm

    #helpfulspyingshouldonlybedonebytheborntorulecrowd
    #goodbrownpeopleremaininoursweatshopsandwillnotspy
    #evilbrownpeoplegetonboatsandpoluteourwhitebredsuperiority
    #gosnowdengoassangegowatermelongopupsgoclive
    #teabags

  45. egg permalink
    November 19, 2013 11:41 pm

    The right is optimistic and have a good sense of humour. I honestly don’t know how I survived all those years on the left, ignorant of this delightful world of the dark side.

  46. November 20, 2013 12:36 am

    ‘In fact i think they hate him more than Howard.’

    Howard wins the battle for my reproachment, by fkn miles.

    I don’t hate Abbott, by I do loathe the lizardlipped sloganeer.

    “The right is optimistic and have a good sense of humour.”

    BS- that could be destroyed with a million quotes from various nutjobs getting outraged by everything from National Pride to Why We Should Lick The Queen’s Arse Harder For Longer. The Right just likes to laugh at stuff they’re comfortable with…like, mocking Moozies (but not Our Lord Jesus!) or being so optimistic they have a fetish for increasing spending on wonderful things like more ARMY Toys (go ARMY!!!).

    ” Mr-Rabbit will rapidly return to `all-fours` diplomacy.”

    It is probably inevitable. He is as beholden as any politician…& when the ‘contributors’ start squealing for restitution loudly enough, he’ll quickly & willingly assume the position. If that’s true about Electricity Bill (I luv that, btw) then 😆 roflmao

  47. November 20, 2013 1:38 am

    Dunny, On this,
    http://www.news.com.au/national/diplomatic-row-with-indonesia-could-delay-schapelle-corbys-parole/story-fncynjr2-1226763762136
    l too share your guffaw.
    Mr-Rabbit`s lot have been happy to have Aussie jobs tossed on the bonfire, (another 1000-jobs lost in west-track engineering this week), but l`m sure Mr-Rabbit will be offering up his quoit for polishing to get a convicted drug-runner set free.
    #teabagsknowwhatisimportant
    +
    +
    #electrictybill
    yeah, mr-rabbits amusing the tea-following with this nickname, which doesn`t have much merit in nsw-and-vic, as the power bills have `doubled` and a bit under `free-trade` privatising and `partnership` deals that have screwed the public. Most would much rather have something done about that. l don`t know the story for Qld-Power. Whats the go with etsa Dunny.? Still state-owned.? Or has it been hocked-off under `privatisation` fetish.?

  48. egg permalink
    November 20, 2013 7:28 am

    ‘BS- that could be destroyed with a million quotes from various nutjobs…’

    My comment was a gross exaggeration and I apologise to anyone who may have taken offence.

  49. November 20, 2013 7:38 am

    “The right is optimistic and have a good sense of humour”

    Yeah – I mean just look at Scott Morriscum.

  50. November 20, 2013 9:48 am

    Bob Katter says that Abbott should apologise to Indonesia

  51. IPA permalink
    November 20, 2013 10:02 am

    “Bob Katter says that Abbott should apologise to Indonesia”

    Well that settles it then …

  52. egg permalink
    November 20, 2013 10:13 am

    Lol IPA

  53. November 20, 2013 10:21 am

    😆

  54. November 20, 2013 10:30 am

    ETSA is just responsible for the infrastructure in SA, Cabbage Cheerer, and has been for a while now.
    Power bills come from the electricity (so called) Providers .

    Cost of domestic power in SA has skyrocketed, virtually unchecked, since privatisation. Carbon tax removal will make fuck all difference.

    It is a large quarterly imposition, hence my recent move to solar. We aren’t opulent with our use at all (no A/C etc) but our bills were increasing every time.
    I’m on decent coin, so could afford it, resentfully. I do wonder how the fuck a family on an average wage can absorb the impact on their budget though.

  55. Walrus permalink
    November 20, 2013 10:34 am

    So I wonder who the Third Party Nation will be brokering a Peace deal over all this is ?

    Afterall there is bound to be some pressure being brought to bear on the Indos to “cool down” a bit.

    I imagine its the Yanks since it was their NSA leak that caused all this

  56. November 20, 2013 10:50 am

    We are their proxy in the region; no matter who is in government here.

  57. egg permalink
    November 20, 2013 12:57 pm

    Andrew Bolt has taken out the baseball bat and is flaying aunty big time.

  58. November 20, 2013 1:34 pm

    He is a sook of epic proportions.

    Who said the Right were good humoured & optimistic? 😉

  59. IPA permalink
    November 20, 2013 1:34 pm

    “FORMER intelligence officials have confirmed it was likely the 2009 operation to spy on the Indonesian President was ticked off by senior cabinet ministers at the time. This would have been either the defence minister, the foreign minister or the attorney-general. The general intelligence needs that led to that operation would have been determined by the Office of National Assessments, which through the national security adviser reports to the national security committee of cabinet.

    “The alternative, that there was no ministerial approval for spy agencies to tap a foreign leader’s phone, can only mean that the Defence Signals Directorate had a rogue agent. This is clearly not the case. Rogue agents don’t put secret intelligence into slide night for foreign spooks. Intelligence sources say there is no way DSD would conduct an operation like that without ministerial cover.”

  60. IPA permalink
    November 20, 2013 1:35 pm

    Link

  61. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 20, 2013 1:51 pm

    What I don’t get is the suggestion that the press should not have published this stuff. Mark Scott is contemptible, not for publishing it, but for suggesting that there is some material he would not publish for national security reasons. Who the fuck is he to decide what is in the national interest? He can’t even be trusted to run an unbiased news organisation.

    Sunlight is the best disinfectant. If governments act on the basis that their actions will inevitably be outed they might behave a bit better.

  62. Ol' Sancty permalink
    November 20, 2013 2:15 pm

    PNG? East Timor?

    Seriously, it’s quite the relief to know that even under the incompetent Rudd we were still engaged in a bit of eavesdropping.

  63. Ol' Sancty permalink
    November 20, 2013 2:18 pm

    SB, there ARE some suspicions as to timing. A conspiracy theorist might conclude that a left leaning media organisation might have withheld publication pending an opportune moment relatively easily forecast where relations between the nations might have been of some consequence. Like, hypothetically, a bilateral effort to stop illegal people smuggling.

  64. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 20, 2013 2:32 pm

    I can see that, James. I think the Guardian’s explanation sounds plausible. No need for conspiracy theories. What is far worse, though, is the media setting itself up as arbiters of the national interest. If they have the information they should publish it. It is not their job to withhold bits of it.

  65. egg permalink
    November 20, 2013 2:39 pm

    Indonesia has officially “downgraded” its relationship with Australia in the wake of spying allegations.

    “The downgrading in the level of the Indonesian-Australian relationship has been done,” Indonesian foreign minister Marty Natalegawa said on Wednesday.

    “We have taken measured steps in accordance with their response and attitude.”

    Natalegawa made the comments on his way into the Indonesian foreign ministry in Jakarta for a meeting with the country’s ambassador to Australia, Nadjib Kesoema.

    “We have already adjusted various forms of co-operation,” he said. “We are turning off the tap by degrees.”

    Guardian

  66. November 20, 2013 2:44 pm

    “We have taken measured steps in accordance with their response and attitude.”

    Presumably that includes declining to accept the half a billion dollars in aid we give them each year?

  67. egg permalink
    November 20, 2013 2:49 pm

    ‘…the half a billion dollars in aid we give them each year?’

    There is an elephant in the room.

    http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/indonesia-china-set-33b-business-pact/

  68. IPA permalink
    November 20, 2013 3:10 pm

    “Presumably that includes declining to accept the half a billion dollars in aid we give them each year?”

    That thought had crossed my mind too. indignation collides with remuneration.

  69. TB Queensland permalink
    November 20, 2013 3:32 pm

    So … everything’s fine then … lovely … 🙂

  70. Walrus permalink
    November 20, 2013 4:02 pm

    “A conspiracy theorist might conclude that a left leaning media organisation might have withheld publication”……………….during the lead up to an election campaign where a certain Mr Rudd has suddenly become PM again and needs all the help he can get without having a diplomatic crisis foisted upon him.

  71. Walrus permalink
    November 20, 2013 4:04 pm

    When are we going to disband the ABC ?

  72. Walrus permalink
    November 20, 2013 4:08 pm

    LOL

    One of the comments on Egg’s link re the signing of the China/Indo business pact

    “I’m just glad this trade didn’t happen with Arab Countries! I don’t want anymore Arab in my country, promoting crazy jihad and sharia law.”

  73. egg permalink
    November 20, 2013 4:38 pm

    ‘When are we going to disband the ABC ?’

    Not under Abbott’s watch.

  74. egg permalink
    November 20, 2013 4:43 pm

    🙂

    “…promoting crazy jihad and sharia law.”

  75. November 20, 2013 4:44 pm

    Death Stare has pulled out of a “long standing” arrangement to appear on the 730 report tomorrow night..

    Guffaw.

  76. Walrus permalink
    November 20, 2013 5:13 pm

    The Indos have done the same on Lateline

    I think both sides might have agreed to put it behind them/or cool it for now

  77. November 20, 2013 5:33 pm

    ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘Death Stare has pulled out of a “long standing” arrangement to appear on the 730 report tomorrow night’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘

    Yeah, we`re getting frosted-out too, under `stop-teh-quotes`, the teabags are still a bit miffed coz Sales `wrangled` mr-rabbit last week. Credlin`s pets are a bit soft.

  78. Walrus permalink
    November 20, 2013 5:44 pm

    “Death Stare has pulled out of a “long standing” arrangement to appear on the 730 report tomorrow night”

    Clearly the earpiece providing answers to questions from LNP advisors off camera would’nt pick up reception under that perm of hers.

    That’ll give Cafe Lunatic some discussion points for tonight

  79. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 20, 2013 8:56 pm

    Now Fairfax is telling outright lies

    In 2009 it was Labor in power. And people wonder why I am such a strong Coalition supporter. Telling lies is an ALP specialty.

  80. November 21, 2013 1:04 am

    ***”SB, there ARE some suspicions as to timing. A *conspiracy theorist might conclude that a left leaning media organisation might have withheld publication pending an opportune moment relatively easily forecast where relations between the nations might have been of some consequence. Like, **hypothetically, a bilateral effort to stop illegal people smuggling.”

    * Andrew Bolt

    ** Andrew Bolt Breakfast Cereal

    *** Yum-yum, I had my Andrew Bolt for breakfast, Thanks Uncle Andrew!!!

    And you ‘optimistic’ rightoid loons, with your ‘sense of humour’, carp about how shrill the left sound when they squeal about News.com bias. 😯

    [how does it go, snacty?…filed for future reference]

  81. egg permalink
    November 21, 2013 6:27 am

    “I have also asked my military to temporarily stop the joint army and navy exercises and also to temporarily stop any co-ordinated military operations, the joint patrols,” he said.

    “As you know, the people-smuggling issue has troubled both Indonesia and Australia, so we have co-ordinated military operations or co-ordinated patrols in the ocean, but until this issue is all clear it will be stopped.”

    Dr Yudhoyono also called for a binding code of conduct between Australia and Indonesia on co-operation on military, intelligence and people-smuggling issues. He said the decision by Australia to tap his mobile phone and those of his wife and their inner circle was ”difficult to digest”.

    ”It is no longer the Cold War era. It was a common thing then to spy on countries of different blocs, but today it is not like that any more. Hostile countries can tap each other, but between Indonesia and Australia we are not of different blocs, let alone hostile each other … why tap a friend, not foe?”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/indonesia-halts-all-military-cooperation-20131120-2xw20.html#ixzz2lDQZVP22

  82. egg permalink
    November 21, 2013 7:07 am

    Xi says to Yudhoyono that Indonesia would be better off with Chinese wars games and to avoid Kapitalist war mongers.

  83. Ol' Sancty permalink
    November 21, 2013 8:32 am

    Miranda Devine had been tweeting the “conspiracy” since the story broke. That was my source. It stacks up.

  84. TB Queensland permalink
    November 21, 2013 9:57 am

    Rudd’s resignation timing seems mightily coincidental dontcha think?

    Abbott’s Boxer Diplomacy certainly hasn’t helped the situation.

    SBY (and the Indonesians in general) seem to be more upset about the First Lady being phone tapped than anything else.

  85. Walrus permalink
    November 21, 2013 10:26 am

    “Abbott’s Boxer Diplomacy certainly hasn’t helped the situation.”

    Abbott’s/ALP Supported Boxer Diplomacy certainly hasn’t helped the situation.

    Fixed it for you

  86. Jherek Jagged permalink
    November 21, 2013 10:50 am

    Is it a conspiracy from the left leaning media organisations reporting the story at the time they were given it? Is it not better to hear it from them, rather than from an oversees paper? Ignorance of hte issue will hardly make it go away

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/18/australia-tried-to-monitor-indonesian-presidents-phone

    The story also shows that the spying went as far back as 2007, under the Government Tony Abbott was a Minister in. It is not a Labor/Liberal issue, it is an Australian Government issue, that needs to be handled by the Australian Government.

    Bill Shorten has opined an avenue out of this. The longer Tony Abbott refuses that advice, the more damage that will ensue. This is now fairly and squarely on his shoulders

  87. Jherek Jagged permalink
    November 21, 2013 10:55 am

    Abbott’s/ALP Supported Boxer Diplomacy certainly hasn’t helped the situation.

    How has the ALP supported the coalitions refusal to apologise, when Shorten stood in Parliament and implored the Government to follow the US ‘s lead which was to apologise?

  88. Walrus permalink
    November 21, 2013 11:16 am

    “How has the ALP supported the coalitions refusal to apologise, ”

    JJ you need to keep up.

    He now wont repeat that stupid advice nor will his colleagues.

    The Indos want to “modernise”. Well before they do they need to harden up and stop determining their public policy on matters both parties partake in.

    And if you want a good example of how deeeply fucked up their systems are it was the threat that this row would jeopardise the possible parole of Schapelle Corby.

    What sort of truly fucked up corrupt judicial political system is that ?

    No wonder we spy on them. Some of them just want us all to die

    They are undeserving of trust.

    They allow terrorist groups to grow within their borders, some of them blow up our citizens, and they allow our sovereignty to be trashed due to their own corruption.

    And you want us to apologise to them ?????????????????

    What colour is the sky in your world ?

  89. Jherek Jagged permalink
    November 21, 2013 11:21 am

    JJ you need to keep up.

    Could you then help me keep up with perhaps a comment from Shorten that shows he supports the line Tony Abbott has taken?

    As the last I heard was what he said in Parliament.

  90. Walrus permalink
    November 21, 2013 11:49 am

    Immigration spokesman Richard Marles was on Sky New’s Graham Richardson program last night and he very pointedly refused to repeat Bill Shorten’s stupid suggestion of an apology.

    So lets see if Shorten repeats it today.

    I very much doubt it given his newly adopted slogan of “Team Australia”

  91. Jherek Jagged permalink
    November 21, 2013 12:07 pm

    So what you are saying is that Labor have not to date supported Tony Abbott’s behavior?

    They have said that they are supporting hte Government, they just appear to think that there is a better way to go about it.

    EMMA ALBERICI: Do you agree with your leader Bill Shorten on the spying issue, who said in the Parliament that Barack Obama’s response to Angela Merkel provides the opportunity for us to consider the same course of action in Australia?

    RICHARD MARLES: Well, of course I agree with Bill

    …..

    Now, I don’t think Bill was saying and we are not saying that every step that was taken by President Obama represents the script for what we ought to be doing now, but it is something of a guide.

    ……

    But the other point that was made tonight, very clearly, is that we are supporting the Government in everything that they are doing now; as Bill Shorten said tonight, this is a Team Australia moment and it needs to be.

    ………

    EMMA ALBERICI: So should Tony Abbott get on the phone?

    RICHARD MARLES: Well, again, it’s a question that you ask in a context where both Angela Merkel and Barack Obama were on the phone pretty quickly, but that’s ultimately a matter for the Government

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3895647.htm?site=southeastsa

    He’s really treading carefully, but, it is clear that, without being totally obstructionist , like their predecessors were in opposition, they are trying to get the Government to approach this with a bit of care. They see what damage this could cause, and has to date, far more than stopping some cattle being slaughtered for a period of time.

    Basically, he is saying he is supporting the Government, but there is a way to smooth this over, perhaps that is the path that should be taken?

    So yes, I am fairly certain that Shorten will repeat it again today.

  92. public toilet permalink
    November 21, 2013 1:50 pm

    It stacks up even less than screeching about pervasive Murdoch Media bias.

    I think it’s called confirmation bias, snacty.

    Having a preference for interpreting things in a way which satisfies personal ideological proclivities.

    Splatter’s take on it is the sensible one.

  93. Walrus permalink
    November 21, 2013 1:51 pm

    “So yes, I am fairly certain that Shorten will repeat it again today”

    I doubt it

  94. November 21, 2013 4:38 pm

    ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ETSA is just responsible for the infrastructure in SA, Cabbage Cheerer, and has been for a while now. Power bills come from the electricity (so called) Providers .’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘

    Sorry to hear sa/etsa has fallen victim to the vic+nsw-disease of privatisation influenza. But it nigh impossible to keep snouts out of troughs l suppose.

  95. November 22, 2013 5:04 pm

    IT IS ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘called confirmation bias, snacty.’ ‘ ‘ ‘

    Limited-News feeds the fears and bias`s of their shrinking audience. While they have a `very-loyal` audience that enjoys the `extremes` of their output, they also stuck with being unable to `grow` their audience, and thus grow profit/income.

    Teh-oz can`t profit/grow and relies on the `welfare` within Limited-News, which mainly comes from teh-terror in sydney, and teh-hun in melbourne. Tho, most buy these papers for the racing/sport sections, to claim these papers news is `actually` read is ano6ther matter.

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