The Government of “No Surprises” rewrites History

TB

I think it does you no favours to get so upset

What make you think I’m upset? Why do I want any favours? I don’t really care what you think?

Its a common figure of speech TB that means your line of argument is not at all effective,

I would argue from a personal point of view this statement you quote …

Marks dispels the myth that postcode is destiny by detailing other more influential factors, such as: student prior ability, school culture and classroom environment, and effective teachers and a rigorous curriculum.

“Postcode” is too broad an analogy … but areas within my own suburb and especially in my postcode vary in socio-economic facility often THE influential factor impacting on all the other factors listed, bar perhaps, these:

The point is clearly that just looking a social economic factors is to go up a blind alley and that just throwing more money at education may not have any measurable effect. In other words the answer is not just to be found in how well re resource eduction.

effective teachers — our univesities are lazy in their selection processes and learning methods for teachers (the most important role in our society/economy) are obsolete

What precisely are you saying is obsolete here? Please restate with greater clarity.

a rigorous curriculum — until the teaching profession comes to grasp that certain elements of their role should be competency based (ie numeracy, literacy, sciences …) we will continue to have people struggling to survive as adults

Tend to agree that there has been far too much experiamantaion with “new “methods of teaching the core competences.

Spending money on teachers per se (as with any other person in the workforce) does not make them more competent or capable … just (a bit more) motivated for about one to two months … a much better idea would be to employ more (competent) teachers and reduce the class size …

There is a clear limit to how small a mass education system can make class sizes and still be affordable. There is after all not an bottomless bucket of money to play with here.

And concentrate on learning not teaching …

What do you mean by that?

I certainly felt that watching him ponce out rote learned phrases last night on Lateline … I couldn’t help thinking that the local catlik school will probably get another 30 seater bus soon or a bigger one … as the state school kids ride their bikes, walk or catch public transport to school … and no chance of a rifle range … the local state schools do now have a hall … the three catlik schools all have shiny new Taj Mahal’s … I guess that argues that “postcode” is way too broad a brush to use …

Well I was too busy playing a game with may son to watch late line but your criticism of the education Minister is rather disingenuous because all pollies are well coached for their media appearances further I see so much envy that some parents think enough of their kids future to send them to private schools.

I think the real issue though is the hypocrisy of the Liberals to throw so many bricks at Julia Gillard over the Carbon Tax and then actually tell more lies and/or be more decietful than anyone they ever accused of doing the same …

You can’t have it both ways TB, defend Gillard by all means but if you do it requires you to use the same sort of pedantry to excuse Christopher Pyne

And, Inane, organised religion doesn’t upset me – it annoys me and has ever since I attended, St Michaels Primary School … its the hypocrisy of them “believing” they have higher standards than we non-believers … when in fact they demonstrate daily that they have no standards at all …

You are aware that “annoy” and “upset” have almost precisely the same meaning in this context aren’t you?
In any even I think that you are one of those insecure atheists who has to spend their entire life denigrating people of faith just so that you can feel better about your own denial of the divine. I used to be like you but then I grew up and come to terms with my own mortality and the finality of death. Now I am rather more sanguine about most religions and I am entirely unsurprised when their pious have feet of clay.

… and evil exists where good folk do nowt … if you choose to accept the hypocrisy and double standards of dog botherers, I don’t GAF but I choose to point it out! Daily … 😈

Clearly your problem is that you define evil as any kind of religious belief with a special focus on Christianity when there are far worse examples of pernicious religiosity on the planet.

Ricky Boy

I feel opportunity is out there if you seek it. Becoming connected like these born to rule silver spoon schoolies is another story. More often than not it has nothing to do with ability or aptitude rather connection, this is why we have so many incompetent piggies with their noses in the troughs of corporations..

I detect an awful lot of envy and unattained ambitions in you Ricky, which probably explains why you are so full of hate.

Ziggy couldn’t play guitar… rather an out of tune 1 string Ukulele extremely badly for years, yet still commands a fee for his compliant stoogery. Pyne got education from political clout not aptitude, he is to education what Inane is to style.

Christopher Pyne is a very clever and capable man only a one-eyed fool would think otherwise so that clearly means that my “style ” must be OK 😉

TB

**** Its a common figure of speech TB that means your line of argument is not at all effective, ****

Then fkn say that, don’t attempt to diagnose my “feelings” … and who says its not effective … you? 😯

I was not even talking about your feelings TB but as it Happens I am saying that your line of argument is unclear.

I wouldn’t disagree with that – that not what I said I said that “postcode” was a stupid analogy … I notice you change your comments after you read other people’s … good …

I always consider each point made by my interlocutors in turn and try to appropriately respond to them its just not interesting or fun to do otherwise.

****What precisely are you saying is obsolete here? Please restate with greater clarity.****

😯 Now you’re assessing my comments? 🙄 In answer to your query as precisely as possible … human beings learn best by doing …

Well thanks for clarifying what you meant and I tend to agree with that.

*****Tend to agree that there has been far too much experiamantaion with “new “methods of teaching the core competences. *** Good I’m pleased you agree (experimentation BTW 🙂 )

Well I have seen first hand the failure of some of the cavorts with literacy teaching and I am thankful that my wife and I put some much effort into teaching our children to read at an early age (my daughter could read before she started school)

****There is a clear limit to how small a mass education system can make class sizes and still be affordable. There is after all not an bottomless bucket of money to play with here. ****

That’s why learning is limited in our schools … (but I thought money didn’t count?)

I never said that money does not count what I said was we face the unassailable fact that there comes apoint where you have to spend ever greater amounts of money that gives ever smaller improvements in results.

So what is the “clear limit” ….?

Given the fact that despite ever more money being spent on education each year with not much changing the academic performance I reckon we must be pretty close to it now.

As a guide for you … there are ways to facilitate learning within small teams (I prefer teams of three from practical experience) … I did facilitate a program called Develop Work Teams for managers and supervisors and I accepted up to 24 people – three teams of eight …

That may work well for workplace training but it would be an unsustainable model for general education.

*** And concentrate on learning not teaching …

What do you mean by that?*****

Many teachers, like many workplace trainers concentrate on the way they teach or train … the simple secret is to reverse that and not to look at what YOU do but how you can help the learner to reach an agreed outcome … and competency based learning units of competency is the best way to do this because they are more precise than a curiculum … attain competence and then develop capability … eg a person cannot express themselves in writing unless they learn the basics of literacy and maybe the more advanced levels of parsing, latin/greek roots etc … once that is achieved then you can move on to story structure and development (for which there are competencies as I’m sure Rick will agree) … then you can set the creative juices free for the learner … the teacher has assisted the learner to develop knowledge and skill … and the learner if they are creative now has the tools to put his/her ideas in readable form …

No I disagree with much of that. if you are trying to teach someone to do what is essentially an industrial task then what you say about learning might hold true but when it comes to something like creative writing none of that stuff about the roots of words ect matter that much, as for narrative structure ect. well there as many ways to get to where you want to go as there authors.

*****I certainly felt that watching him ponce out rote learned phrases last night on Lateline … I couldn’t help thinking that the local catlik school will probably get another 30 seater bus soon or a bigger one … as the state school kids ride their bikes, walk or catch public transport to school … and no chance of a rifle range … the local state schools do now have a hall … the three catlik schools all have shiny new Taj Mahal’s … I guess that argues that “postcode” is way too broad a brush to use …

We both know that all players in the game of politics are schooled in media tactics so it is pointless to single any side out for particular scorn on that point.
As for your envy-laden scorn about school facilities 🙄

How old is your son? I thought he was at school? Lateline is on @ 10:30??

I have never been a bedtime Nazi with my children TB

So, if you don’t send your children to private school you don’t care about future … rather insulting to those of us who couldn’t afford and to those who choose not to expose their children to religious brainwashing … if churches paid taxes then they might have a case for public funding … but they don’t … I do …

That is not what I said, or meant. As it happens I sort of agree with some of what you clearly believe about churches paying taxes,but only on their business enterprises (sanitarium foods comes to mind here) but it just does not follow that “paying tax” should be a prerequisite for public funding of private schools

Not envy at all — imbalance of funds shifted by the Liberals to those who generally want the state to pay for religious brainwashing … you may have noticed that some of us don’t like that idea … and for your info private school graduates often perform poorly at university … this poncing about by Pyne is to return to the Howard years … with its disproportionate doling out of money to private schools …

Oh dear your seething prejudice is showing big time here! In most cases private schools do not do the sort of indoctrination that you imagine none the less its up to parents to decide if they want their offspring to be imbued with the values that they themselves hold. Further the amount of money paid by the state towards each private school students education has always been substantially less than is paid towards students in state schools.

There ya go again amateur psychoanalyst extraordinaire … 1. A mossie annoys me … a fkn tiger would upset me … 2. Wrong again, I’m neither insecure nor an athiest … 3. Nor do I give a fuck whether people agree with my beliefs – they are mine – and unlike those “with” religion I don’t need them to think like me … 4. You’ve never been like me … what a stupid statement … “and I grew up” – are you sure? … patronising or what?

Methinks he doth protest too much!
Don’t blame me for seeking the underlying psychology of your politics, especially when it is so evident in your personal rhetoric. But you are deluding yourself if your position is at all evident of the someone who is secure in their own religious beliefs. You constantly denigrate any religious believe even when it is entirely innocuous and you have this paranoid fear that every person of faith is out to “convert” you or others. Personally I argue against expression of religion that are actually pernicious which is why I am so often critical of Islam, but I don’t ever just hate the religious faith of others on principle the way that you do.

I don’t have a problem? The problem is in your fkn head … I define evil in many different ways … ignorant stupidity is a major one … organised religion of any kind tends towards evil rather than kindness and violence rather than peace … but you seem to be defending them a lot ….

Oh you poor deluded fool! If you did not have a “problem” with religion you would not be getting so het up about it and denouncing any expression of faith wherever you get the chance. Religions all exist to provide two things to their followers, firstly they exist to provide a frame work for a workable society and to reconcile their followers with their own mortality by promising an imagining of an afterlife, neither are of necessity bad (although some certainly are)but for the militant and insecure atheists like you their contrived certainty is just too scary so you rail against them all.

toiletcantankerousnightsoil

To be frank I was unaware that TB claims to be an agnostic and the evidence of his own words shows someone who is far too antagonistic to people of (any) faith to qualify him as a fence sitter on matters spiritual. Remebering of course that a fence sitter is the perfect definition of an agnostic.
As for arguing with you about atheism I doubt that there is a substantive difference between us on the non existence of any sort of deity, or the validity of any thing that is in any way claimed to be supernatural.
Where we may differ though is that I feel no need to reinforce may own faith position (because atheism is certainly that) by denigrating the beliefs of others even when they are entirely silly. If those beliefs manifest actual harm to other people, well then criticism of the harm caused is another matter entirely.

So what would we disagree about then?

Paul
where on earth did you get your (incorrect) claim that I was married in a church? If you must know I was married by a civil celebrant under a tree by a creek in a cow paddock.

Please define what you mean by this:

I think he has religious homophobia , as he is a homophobic.

Because if anyone has negative feelings about homosexuals I would say its you from the way that you denigrate Christopher pine by invoking a negative gay stereotype when you call him a “mincing poodle”

TB

WTF! “self deceptive”? “as far as I can see” (the nd of your fkn nose!) “sound like the prefect (sic) candidate” (you remind me of another Walter Mitty that used trudge these pages!) “the perfect candidate” … Who the fk do you think you are? The bloke with the ring of confidence?

Father Fucking Inane?

Don’t blame me for noticing the inconsistency between what you claim that you are an agnostic and the evidence in the the things that you say about religion which suggest that you are not at all ambivalent about such things..

Ricky
Give it up matey because if you believe even half of the crap that you keep linking to then you should consider not making me care enough to bother with you.

Ricky boy
Do you think that I care one iota that I have been banned from a few blogs?

As for my reputation 🙄 much of it has been created by petty toerags like you, Individuals who are so juvenile that they can’t stop trying to get some sort of vengeance because I have called them out on their political opinions or exposed their conceits .
The thing is you have cited that hate page here many times which is frankly very boring, the regulars here have obviously seen your links and I doubt very much if they even bother to click them, even if they have checked out the page previously. Its very old news indeed.
In essence you demean yourself every time you try to cite that page here and else where.
If you disagree with my opinions then argue against them and I bet that the regulars here may even agree with you on occasion, heck you may even change my mind if you are persuasive enough.
What it boils down to is that you are a thuggish boor with an over inflated ego who can’t get past the fact that I once said that you deserved your ticker troubles. Your continuing vendetta against me certainly proves my sarcasm at the time had more than a speck of truth to it.