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The Government of “No Surprises” rewrites History

November 26, 2013

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The following article is by Laura Tingle and first appeared at The Australian Financial Review

Two months after being sworn in, the Abbott government is now at war with conservative states, the Senate and parents across the country.

Not only is the politics of education calamitous, the government risks a High Court challenge to any attempt to walk away from education funding agreements with the states, being blocked in the Senate, and has even raised questions of sovereign risk.

On the political level, Christopher Pyne’s announcement on Tuesday that the government would dump the Gonski education funding model after 2014 is likely to leave voters feeling even more badly done by than they ever did about Julia Gillard and the carbon tax.

For behind all the well documented pledges about being on a “unity ticket” with Labor on education funding that were being thrown back at the Coalition on Tuesday is a more fundamental political problem for Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

That is that he promised he would lead a government of “no surprises”, a government that would rebuild faith with voters about politics by honouring its commitments, and remove the uncertainty of the last three years.

Instead the move on education leaves schools uncertain about their funding beyond next year, and the government on yet another uncertain path in the Senate on a central policy issue.

No wonder Labor is now repeating, ad nauseum, the line that the Abbott Government “is not the government they said they would be”.

The politics of the brawl with Indonesia may have reflected poorly on the prime minister’s control of foreign policy.

But education is something that affects almost everyone. It now seems the Coalition neutralised a positive issue for Labor by lying about its intentions.

This is the only possible conclusion you can draw from Christopher Pyne’s attempts to rewrite the history of what he said before the election at a fiery Canberra press conference on Tuesday.

The government’s attempt to hide behind a suggestion of a ‘budget shortfall’ left by Labor only makes the politics of this look even more tawdry.

Mr Pyne is asserting that Bill Shorten “cut $1.2 billion from the school funding envelope for the next four years”.

In fact, what happened was the former government was unable to get the conservative governments in Western Australia, Queensland and the Northern Territory to agree to a new funding deal. It had allocated $1.2 billion to funding agreements with these three jurisdictions in its economic statement but they had declined to sign up.

Therefore, the money was no longer relevant by the time of the pre-election fiscal and economic outlook.

This was widely reported at the time, as was the fact that some, but not all schools, were covered by funding agreements on election day.

A majority of schools was covered by those agreements: schools in NSW, Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania and the ACT, as well as catholic and independent schools.

Mr Pyne and Mr Abbott repeatedly committed to honouring funding agreements for at least four years.

Mr Pyne has been working hard in the past few days to claim that even some of these deals weren’t properly completed but has struck push back from some of those on the other end of the agreement.

The bottom line is the Coalition is now saying it will only honour one year of the agreements reached with all of these school systems because, after that, it will have to spread the pot of money committed into those agreements across the whole country.

The NSW O’Farrell government is leading the push back in no uncertain terms, attacking not just the federal government’s decision but its very modus operandi.

“When you move into government you have to stop behaving like an opposition”, Premier Barry O’Farrell said.

His education minister Adrian Picolli observed Mr Pyne “must be the only person in Australia who thinks the SES (Socio-Economic Status) model [ the model that came into being under the Howard Government and which Mr Pyne has said he will resurrect] is a good model”.

The federal government cannot surely be serious in its assertion that it can simply walk away from a binding agreement with another government.

Maybe Mr O’Farrell is right and this is but another example of the Coalition failing to come to grips with the difference between being an opposition and being a government.

 

 

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100 Comments leave one →
  1. November 26, 2013 4:51 pm

    Well i for one am not surprised because like every other idea produced by the Labor governments the Gonski reforms were all spin and no real substance to top it off Rudd was so keen to go to the election that he so convincingly lost that he failed to do what was necessary to make the agreements with the states manifest.

  2. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2013 4:54 pm

    Confession is a wonderful concept for catliks* … even Murdoch chortled that Australia now had a catlik PM …

    “Thankfully, Australia has emerged from its inauspicious colonial beginnings to become a proud nation, a nation that overcame those primeval prejudices,” Mr Murdoch told an exclusive audience in Sydney’s town hall.

    “We have a perfect example: Many of you will remember a day when a Catholic was rare in a Liberal cabinet.

    “Those days are now behind us. And Prime Minister Tony Abbott is part of the proof.”

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/technology/a/19627782/rupert-murdoch-says-australia-has-left-behind-its-stuffy-elitism-praises-tony-abbotts-links-with-indonesia/

    So just who is running this secular country?

    oh, the hypocrisy … wonder what would happen if we added an 11th Commandment … Thou Shalt Not Lie … easy question to answer actually … nothing …

    *pity they only do it in a little box to each other … even that is secretive it seems …

  3. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2013 5:02 pm

    … the Gonski reforms were all spin and no real substance …

    Please explain?

    You are obviously an expert on the subject … you have qualifications in learning, I take it?

    You’ve read the Gonski Report? Or at least a Summary?

    I’m looking forward to our discussion on the subject … my quals are in HRD, BTW … 😉

  4. November 26, 2013 8:00 pm

    What is HRD.? TB
    (my bet it is something that will scatter the teabags)

  5. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2013 8:30 pm

    007, simply Google it … and go to Wikipedia (the sauce [sic] of all knowledge) …

  6. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2013 8:34 pm

    WE are now being “controlled” by the Keystone Kops …

    http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/state-lnp-treasurer-tim-nicholls-pushing-feds-for-online-gst-slug-so-shoppers-pay-more-for-imported-goods/story-fnii5v6w-1226768227282

    The Productivity Commission found cutting the threshold from $1000 to $20 would raise an extra $500 million but it would cost $1.6 billion to check 30 million mail parcels.

    And these pricks thought bikies were bad news!

    Item 13 … Predicted!

    We are still to get beyond 1984 in Queensland … 🙄

  7. Nemisis permalink
    November 26, 2013 11:55 pm

    There is nothing wrong with using SES location as a basis for educational reform. Indeed, ever since sociologist James S. Coleman conducted the largest education research study ever undertaken and then wrote the 1966 Report Equality of Educational Opportunity SES location is the yardstick used to explain both educational attainment or lack of same.

    It’s the underpinnings of Gonski, even if he himself doesn’t recognise it. Certainly, at least one member of the panel did’ without getting into detail.

    Pyne’s attempt to turn back the clock to the Howard model (which corrupted the SES concept) will probably be successful because like it or not Pyne is a very good politician. watch as he changes the terms of the educational debate.

    As for evidence that the current education system is failing the populace, I give you Iain Hall.

    Talk about brain dead.

    BTW, if you really want to sees arse licking writ large read this:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-26/donnelly-why-pyne-is-right-to-review-the-gonski-reforms/5117438

    Kevin Donnelly is in search of a position, as he always is.

  8. November 27, 2013 1:05 am

    gotta love someone who makes a comment on legislation they have not even read with a rash generalisations of no detail or substance ..pretty atypical of a low intellects that elected this tony tosser and the little hitler of Qld… all spin and no substance.

  9. November 27, 2013 1:15 am

    gets popcorn … waiting for cut and pasting… 🙂 TB two tax professors have already stated that it would cost more to collect than it would earn…but then again the libs don’t know much about taxation only to put it up or dish it out as welfare to yuppies…

  10. paul permalink
    November 27, 2013 1:21 am

    A good article on Gonski,

    Why Labor had it right on education funding

    To sum up, there are three simple reasons why Gonski is the right funding system for Australia’s future.

    1. The money follows real, evidenced based need. It goes where it will do the most good. There has been much waste in education spending in Australia, but the waste is at the top of the system because dollars are being spent on already advantaged kids for no discernible return. Targeting the funding to the kids who will benefit from it, isn’t just fair, its fiscally responsible.
    2. It is a truly sector blind Commonwealth funding scheme. The money follows student need regardless of ownership of school.
    3. It is simple and easy to understand – I was able to explain it in 100 words, after all. Why, if he tried a little harder, I reckon even Christopher Pyne could get his head around it.

    Maybe even Inane can understand it, but you need an education to read articles this easy to read and understand.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-26/caro-gonski-funding/5117260

  11. November 27, 2013 10:12 am

    TB
    As much as I agree with you that ours is a secular society I think it does you no favours to get so upset that so many of our citizens are people of faith.

    Further I understand the lofty principles involved in the Gonski project as it was conceived by the Labor party but I just don’t think that it will get the sort of results that its proponents are suggesting. As I pointed out in the other thread throwing ever more money at the education system does not necessarily mean positive results for the students in our schools. Its the hoary old “law of diminishing returns” chestnut. The cynic in me just thinks that a big part of the Labor Gonski vision is really more about creating work in the teaching industry rather than focusing on real results for the students,

    On the GST issue you raise I agree with you that the push from both the states and the retailers to lower the threshold for online sales is stupid and it just will not happen in fact I wrote about it earlier this week making precisely the same point that you do with your citation:
    http://iainhall.wordpress.com/2013/11/21/chasing-the-gst-dollar/

    Nemesis

    I think that Kevin Donnelly makes some very good points in his piece from the drum

    The statement in the Gonski report that “students from low socioeconomic backgrounds and Indigenous students have the most significant impact on education outcomes” mirrors the cultural-Left argument that socioeconomic disadvantage is the prime cause of students’ underachieving.

    The evidence proves otherwise as detailed in a recent publication by the University of Melbourne’s Gary Marks. In his book Education, Social Background and Cognitive Ability, Marks dispels the myth that postcode is destiny by detailing other more influential factors, such as: student prior ability, school culture and classroom environment, and effective teachers and a rigorous curriculum.

    After examining debates about the impact of students’ background and recent research, Marks writes: “… arguments that the reproduction of socioeconomic inequalities across generations is strong and enduring and that cognitive ability is irrelevant are simply not true.”

    Reinforcing a number of studies associated with the Longitudinal Surveys of Australian Youth that also question the significance of socioeconomic background, Marks also concludes, “Deliberations on education policy should not be based on the premise that the bulk of inequalities in education can be attributed to socioeconomic background”.

    Paul
    Jane Caro’s piece is typically disingenuous and misleading and really just a barely concealed plea for more spending on teachers and the education industry rather than even considering the question of results and outcomes for students.

  12. November 27, 2013 10:27 am

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/alcohol-and-other-drugs-council-of-australia-in-administration-after-tony-abbott-cuts-20131126-2y836.html#ixzz2lnFHRnMA

    One of the nation’s oldest health organisations has been placed in voluntary administration after its funding was cut by the government.

    The Alcohol and Other Drugs Council of Australia, which has operated since 1966, learned on Monday its funding would cease immediately. The council is the peak body for organisations working to minimise the harm caused by drugs and alcohol, providing professional development, information sharing and advocacy services on an annual budget of $1.6 million from the federal Health Department.

    “In 46 years, this is the only government that has decided it can do without ADCA’s advice”: Professor Ian Webster. President of the council’s board, former Liberal MP Mal Washer, said the decision was a ”devastating blow” that would undermine years of work.

    Advertisement ”It effectively erases decades of corporate knowledge, and leaves the sector without representation at a national level,” Dr Washer said.

    This government’s attitude toward governing would appear to be “Let’s rip everything up.”

  13. paul permalink
    November 27, 2013 10:38 am

    Inane i think your link is at fault, it is also misleading.

  14. paul permalink
    November 27, 2013 10:41 am

    Donnelly wants most of the money to go to independent and catholic schools, they are already funded through private fees, Gonski reverses that trend.

  15. paul permalink
    November 27, 2013 10:59 am

    This paragraph here describes best what this Government is doing.

    His refusal to allocate the few hours needed to satisfy himself – and be seen to be satisfying himself – of the facts exposes an emerging pattern in this government: that its primary energies are too often directed at undoing reforms rather than making them.

    Yes, this Government is good at ripping things down, but not building them.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/gonski-reforms-christopher-pyne-shows-his-dislike-for-homework-20131126-2y87y.html

  16. paul permalink
    November 27, 2013 11:53 am

    Poodle Pyne is getting desperate now, he blaming the Press.

    Education Minister Christopher Pyne has blamed journalists for getting confused about his school funding promises, amid growing anger over the Coalition’s reneging on its pre-election commitments.

    ”It’s not my fault if some people in the press gallery don’t understand the complicated nature of the school funding model,” Mr Pyne told ABC Radio on Wednesday.

    It looks like poodle pyne is the one getting confused

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/christopher-pyne-blames-journalists-for-governments-apparent-gonski-backflip-20131127-2y91g.html

  17. November 27, 2013 12:51 pm

    How about actually reading Gonski? Like I said living through others without an original thought 🙄 When a government uses education funding , which is fundamentally broken, to further its ideology war on people perceived to be left, especially in regard to the curriculum…maybe they have a credibility problem.

  18. TB Queensland permalink
    November 27, 2013 12:59 pm

    I think it does you no favours to get so upset

    What make you think I’m upset? Why do I want any favours? I don’t really care what you think?

    I would argue from a personal point of view this statement you quote …

    Marks dispels the myth that postcode is destiny by detailing other more influential factors, such as: student prior ability, school culture and classroom environment, and effective teachers and a rigorous curriculum.

    “Postcode” is too broad an analogy … but areas within my own suburb and especially in my postcode vary in socio-economic facility often THE influential factor impacting on all the other factors listed, bar perhaps, these:

    effective teachers — our univesities are lazy in their selection processes and learning methods for teachers (the most important role in our society/economy) are obsolete

    a rigorous curriculum — until the teaching profession comes to grasp that certain elements of their role should be competency based (ie numeracy, literacy, sciences …) we will continue to have people struggling to survive as adults

    Spending money on teachers per se (as with any other person in the workforce) does not make them more competent or capable … just (a bit more) motivated for about one to two months … a much better idea would be to employ more (competent) teachers and reduce the class size …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And concentrate on learning not teaching …

    It looks like poodle pyne is the one getting confused

    I certainly felt that watching him ponce out rote learned phrases last night on Lateline … I couldn’t help thinking that the local catlik school will probably get another 30 seater bus soon or a bigger one … as the state school kids ride their bikes, walk or catch public transport to school … and no chance of a rifle range … the local state schools do now have a hall … the three catlik schools all have shiny new Taj Mahal’s … I guess that argues that “postcode” is way too broad a brush to use …

    I think the real issue though is the hypocrisy of the Liberals to throw so many bricks at Julia Gillard over the Carbon Tax and then actually tell more lies and/or be more decietful than anyone they ever accused of doing the same …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And, Inane, organised religion doesn’t upset me – it annoys me and has ever since I attended, St Michaels Primary School … its the hypocrisy of them “believing” they have higher standards than we non-believers … when in fact they demonstrate daily that they have no standards at all …

    … and evil exists where good folk do nowt … if you choose to accept the hypocrisy and double standards of dog botherers, I don’t GAF but I choose to point it out! Daily … 😈

  19. November 27, 2013 2:37 pm

    Spot on TB, an eloquent and educated perspective.

    I feel opportunity is out there if you seek it. Becoming connected like these born to rule silver spoon schoolies is another story. More often than not it has nothing to do with ability or aptitude rather connection, this is why we have so many incompetent piggies with their noses in the troughs of corporations..

    Ziggy couldn’t play guitar… rather an out of tune 1 string Ukulele extremely badly for years, yet still commands a fee for his compliant stoogery. Pyne got education from political clout not aptitude, he is to education what Inane is to style.

  20. November 27, 2013 3:17 pm

    TB

    I think it does you no favours to get so upset

    What make you think I’m upset? Why do I want any favours? I don’t really care what you think?

    Its a common figure of speech TB that means your line of argument is not at all effective,

    I would argue from a personal point of view this statement you quote …

    Marks dispels the myth that postcode is destiny by detailing other more influential factors, such as: student prior ability, school culture and classroom environment, and effective teachers and a rigorous curriculum.

    “Postcode” is too broad an analogy … but areas within my own suburb and especially in my postcode vary in socio-economic facility often THE influential factor impacting on all the other factors listed, bar perhaps, these:

    The point is clearly that just looking a social economic factors is to go up a blind alley and that just throwing more money at education may not have any measurable effect. In other words the answer is not just to be found in how well re resource eduction.

    effective teachers — our univesities are lazy in their selection processes and learning methods for teachers (the most important role in our society/economy) are obsolete

    What precisely are you saying is obsolete here? Please restate with greater clarity.

    a rigorous curriculum — until the teaching profession comes to grasp that certain elements of their role should be competency based (ie numeracy, literacy, sciences …) we will continue to have people struggling to survive as adults

    Tend to agree that there has been far too much experiamantaion with “new “methods of teaching the core competences.

    Spending money on teachers per se (as with any other person in the workforce) does not make them more competent or capable … just (a bit more) motivated for about one to two months … a much better idea would be to employ more (competent) teachers and reduce the class size …

    There is a clear limit to how small a mass education system can make class sizes and still be affordable. There is after all not an bottomless bucket of money to play with here.

    And concentrate on learning not teaching …

    What do you mean by that?

    I certainly felt that watching him ponce out rote learned phrases last night on Lateline … I couldn’t help thinking that the local catlik school will probably get another 30 seater bus soon or a bigger one … as the state school kids ride their bikes, walk or catch public transport to school … and no chance of a rifle range … the local state schools do now have a hall … the three catlik schools all have shiny new Taj Mahal’s … I guess that argues that “postcode” is way too broad a brush to use …

    Well I was too busy playing a game with may son to watch late line but your criticism of the education Minister is rather disingenuous because all pollies are well coached for their media appearances further I see so much envy that some parents think enough of their kids future to send them to private schools.

    I think the real issue though is the hypocrisy of the Liberals to throw so many bricks at Julia Gillard over the Carbon Tax and then actually tell more lies and/or be more decietful than anyone they ever accused of doing the same …

    You can’t have it both ways TB, defend Gillard by all means but if you do it requires you to use the same sort of pedantry to excuse Christopher Pyne

    And, Inane, organised religion doesn’t upset me – it annoys me and has ever since I attended, St Michaels Primary School … its the hypocrisy of them “believing” they have higher standards than we non-believers … when in fact they demonstrate daily that they have no standards at all …

    You are aware that “annoy” and “upset” have almost precisely the same meaning in this context aren’t you?
    In any even I think that you are one of those insecure atheists who has to spend their entire life denigrating people of faith just so that you can feel better about your own denial of the divine. I used to be like you but then I grew up and come to terms with my own mortality and the finality of death. Now I am rather more sanguine about most religions and I am entirely unsurprised when their pious have feet of clay.

    … and evil exists where good folk do nowt … if you choose to accept the hypocrisy and double standards of dog botherers, I don’t GAF but I choose to point it out! Daily … 😈

    Clearly your problem is that you define evil as any kind of religious belief with a special focus on Christianity when there are far worse examples of pernicious religiosity on the planet.

    Ricky Boy

    I feel opportunity is out there if you seek it. Becoming connected like these born to rule silver spoon schoolies is another story. More often than not it has nothing to do with ability or aptitude rather connection, this is why we have so many incompetent piggies with their noses in the troughs of corporations..

    I detect an awful lot of envy and unattained ambitions in you Ricky, which probably explains why you are so full of hate.

    Ziggy couldn’t play guitar… rather an out of tune 1 string Ukulele extremely badly for years, yet still commands a fee for his compliant stoogery. Pyne got education from political clout not aptitude, he is to education what Inane is to style.

    Christopher Pyne is a very clever and capable man only a one-eyed fool would think otherwise so that clearly means that my “style ” must be OK 😉

  21. TB Queensland permalink
    November 27, 2013 4:59 pm

    INANE

    **** Its a common figure of speech TB that means your line of argument is not at all effective, ****

    Then fkn say that, don’t attempt to diagnose my “feelings” … and who says its not effective … you? 😯

    *****The point is clearly that just looking a social economic factors is to go up a blind alley and that just throwing more money at education may not have any measurable effect. In other words the answer is not just to be found in how well re resource eduction. *****

    I wouldn’t disagree with that – that not what I said I said that “postcode” was a stupid analogy … I notice you change your comments after you read other people’s … good …

    ****What precisely are you saying is obsolete here? Please restate with greater clarity.****

    😯 Now you’re assessing my comments? 🙄 In answer to your queryas precisely as possible … human beings learn best by doing …

    *****Tend to agree that there has been far too much experiamantaion with “new “methods of teaching the core competences. *** Good I’m pleased you agree (experimentation BTW 🙂 )

    ****There is a clear limit to how small a mass education system can make class sizes and still be affordable. There is after all not an bottomless bucket of money to play with here. ****

    That’s why learning is limited in our schools … (but I thought money didn’t count?)

    So what is the “clear limit” ….?

    As a guide for you … there are ways to facilitate learning within small teams (I prefer teams of three from practical experience) … I did facilitate a program called Develop Work Teams for managers and supervisors and I accepted up to 24 people – three teams of eight …

    *** And concentrate on learning not teaching …

    What do you mean by that?*****

    Many teachers, like many workplace trainers concentrate on the way they teach or train … the simple secret is to reverse that and not to look at what YOU do but how you can help the learner to reach an agreed outcome … and competency based learning units of competency is the best way to do this because they are more precise than a curiculum … attain competence and then develop capability … eg a person cannot express themselves in writing unless they learn the basics of literacy and maybe the more advanced levels of parsing, latin/greek roots etc … once that is achieved then you can move on to story structure and development (for which there are competencies as I’m sure Rick will agree) … then you can set the creative juices free for the learner … the teacher has assisted the learner to develop knowledge and skill … and the learner if they are creative now has the tools to put his/her ideas in readable form …

    *****I certainly felt that watching him ponce out rote learned phrases last night on Lateline … I couldn’t help thinking that the local catlik school will probably get another 30 seater bus soon or a bigger one … as the state school kids ride their bikes, walk or catch public transport to school … and no chance of a rifle range … the local state schools do now have a hall … the three catlik schools all have shiny new Taj Mahal’s … I guess that argues that “postcode” is way too broad a brush to use …

    Well I was too busy playing a game with may son to watch late line but your criticism of the education Minister is rather disingenuous because all pollies are well coached for their media appearances further I see so much envy that some parents think enough of their kids future to send them to private schools. *******

    How old is your son? I thought he was at school? Lateline is on @ 10:30??

    So, if you don’t send your children to private school you don’t care about future … rather insulting to those of us who couldn’t afford and to those who choose not to expose their children to religious brainwashing … if churches paid taxes then they might have a case for public funding … but they don’t … I do …

    Not envy at all — imbalance of funds shifted by the Liberals to those who generally want the state to pay for religious brainwashing … you may have noticed that some of us don’t like that idea … and for your info private school graduates often perform poorly at university … this poncing about by Pyne is to return to the Howard years … with its disproportionate doling out of money to private schools …

    ******I think the real issue though is the hypocrisy of the Liberals to throw so many bricks at Julia Gillard over the Carbon Tax and then actually tell more lies and/or be more decietful than anyone they ever accused of doing the same …

    You can’t have it both ways TB, defend Gillard by all means but if you do it requires you to use the same sort of pedantry to excuse Christopher Pyne *****

    You miss the point again, inane … its the hypocrisy that I’m talking about … ya know “do unto others” … I have no desire to defend anyone … and its not pedantic at all … Gillard is an athiest? 😉

    *****And, Inane, organised religion doesn’t upset me – it annoys me and has ever since I attended, St Michaels Primary School … its the hypocrisy of them “believing” they have higher standards than we non-believers … when in fact they demonstrate daily that they have no standards at all …

    You are aware that “annoy” and “upset” have almost precisely the same meaning in this context aren’t you?
    In any even I think that you are one of those insecure atheists who has to spend their entire life denigrating people of faith just so that you can feel better about your own denial of the divine. I used to be like you but then I grew up and come to terms with my own mortality and the finality of death. Now I am rather more sanguine about most religions and I am entirely unsurprised when their pious have feet of clay. *****

    There ya go again amateur psychoanalyst extraordinaire … 1. A mossie annoys me … a fkn tiger would upset me … 2. Wrong again, I’m neither insecure nor an athiest … 3. Nor do I give a fuck whether people agree with my beliefs – they are mine – and unlike those “with” religion I don’t need them to think like me … 4. You’ve never been like me … what a stupid statement … “and I grew up” – are you sure? … patronising or what?

    ****… and evil exists where good folk do nowt … if you choose to accept the hypocrisy and double standards of dog botherers, I don’t GAF but I choose to point it out! Daily …

    Clearly your problem is that you define evil as any kind of religious belief with a special focus on Christianity when there are far worse examples of pernicious religiosity on the planet.******

    I don’t have a problem? The problem is in your fkn head … I define evil in many different ways … ignorant stupidity is a major one … organised religion of any kind tends towards evil rather than kindness and violence rather than peace … but you seem to be defending them a lot ….

  22. November 27, 2013 7:56 pm

    “In any even I think that you are one of those insecure atheists who has to spend their entire life denigrating people of faith just so that you can feel better about your own denial of the divine. I used to be like you but then I grew up and come to terms with my own mortality and the finality of death.”

    What an absolute deluge of horseshit.

    Fuck you spout nonsense at times, Inane. 😯

    TB, is a self declared agnostic & has been on the record as so for many years here.

    I am a supremely secure atheist and the rest of your comment is just self absorbed tripe. Personally, I came to terms with my own mortality & the utter finality of death the day I dug up a badly decomposed chicken I’d buried in a jar & discovered it hadn’t gone to ‘heaven’ & that my Lutheran grandparents were full of shit about such things. That happened around the time I started school.
    Denial of the divine has always been an obvious corollary from that point forward.

    Now you may choose to take that blatant understanding & tread carefully so as not to upset those beholden to false beliefs in fantasy…but I call a spade a spade. If their beliefs are strongly held enough, why should they care if atheists deem them nonsense?

    Your condescending reference to ‘growing up’ is baseless & has absolutely nothing to do with ‘insecurity’ or ‘denigration’. You are just a christianlicking version of an Uncle Tom. I know full well that you’re perfectly happy denigrating Islam (which, as it happens, I also think is a load of shit).

    Fact is, the fundamentals of religious belief & ‘faith’ (which is used as a deflective word to suggest “I don’t need to substantiate my ridiculous beliefs, but I expect the world to take them seriously”) don’t stand up to scrutiny.

    I try & stay out of the games of StacksOnInane which you seem to court. But that comment was laughable.

  23. TB Queensland permalink
    November 27, 2013 8:11 pm

    LOL! I thought I said something similar, Toillette, but not as succinctly as thee, Ser …

    I reckon people who “analyse” other people’s “state of mind” or “feelings” … ain’t come to grips with themselves yet … or maybe they have —- physically …

    There’s an old Yorkshire saying my Grandad used to say … “Tha’ ‘nose ivri’body’s mad … ‘cept thee an’ me … an’ am nat sa shuar abeet thee …”

    My Grandad’s old Yorkshire accent was quite amusing sometimes … my family used to tell the tale … just after WWII, he came home from town and told them all, “Tha’ nose, graapes in’t tarn are a paaund a pund” … £1 a pound …

  24. November 27, 2013 8:16 pm

    Reading his accent makes my brain ache! 😉

  25. egg permalink
    November 27, 2013 8:39 pm

    ‘I used to be like you but then I grew up and come to terms with my own mortality and the finality of death.”

    You should read the Mail, they have great stories on reincarnation, near death experiences and the like.

  26. paul permalink
    November 27, 2013 8:54 pm

    And the hits just keep on coming. They will be top of the charts soon, if not already.

    Abbott’s boulevard of broken promises

    They promised before the election to be a “no-surprises” government.

    But since winning power the Abbott government has lengthened its list of broken promises and policy surprises by more than one a week.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/abbotts-boulevard-of-broken-promises-20131127-2yac4.html

  27. egg permalink
    November 27, 2013 9:12 pm

    I’m not surprised, I expected nothing less from our charismatic supreme leader.

  28. paul permalink
    November 27, 2013 9:20 pm

    The Abbott is starting to remind me of the Borg from Star Trek, YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED, YOU WILL DO WHAT WE TELL YOU

  29. paul permalink
    November 27, 2013 9:32 pm

    Looks like the Abbott is in for more of a rough time, especially if this turns out to be true.

    East Timor accuses Australia of spying for commercial gain during Timor sea negotiations.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-27/east-timor-says-australia-spied-for-commercial-gain/5120738

  30. November 27, 2013 10:05 pm

    ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘on an annual budget of $1.6 million from the federal Health Department. In 46 years, this is the only government that has decided it can do without ADCA’s advice’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘

    Yeah Sharpie, Mr-Rabbit is already running with `austerity` for the poor/weak/ill, no surprise here, that seems to be all the teabags want to do.

  31. November 28, 2013 1:33 am

    Inane you detect nothing Inane because you do not have the capacity…to even remotely understand what you are on about.. you’re an expert on teaching because you have a kid in school? . Have you ever taught? ….FFS have some humility. Pyne?….is nothing but a closet who makes deals.. he’s neither clever nor gifted..just a bullshitting fake, not unlike yourself. Difference is he is a gay man and they don’t tend to take style tips from Ivan Milat.

    Inane i’m not full of hate..you’re just a cunt and I see though you and all those little tricks.is all.. A sad antagonistic low brow ugly cunt troll on welfare in denial pretending he’s important. But hey don’t take my word for it… you have a fan pages.

    https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Iain_Hall

    http://lacomplaintedupartisan.blogspot.com.au/2007/10/stalker-starring-iain-hall.html

    http://turnleft2013.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/dear-iain-hall-right-wing-troll-this-is-why-you-were-banned/

  32. November 28, 2013 8:55 am

    TB

    **** Its a common figure of speech TB that means your line of argument is not at all effective, ****

    Then fkn say that, don’t attempt to diagnose my “feelings” … and who says its not effective … you? 😯

    I was not even talking about your feelings TB but as it Happens I am saying that your line of argument is unclear.

    I wouldn’t disagree with that – that not what I said I said that “postcode” was a stupid analogy … I notice you change your comments after you read other people’s … good …

    I always consider each point made by my interlocutors in turn and try to appropriately respond to them its just not interesting or fun to do otherwise.

    ****What precisely are you saying is obsolete here? Please restate with greater clarity.****

    😯 Now you’re assessing my comments? 🙄 In answer to your query as precisely as possible … human beings learn best by doing …

    Well thanks for clarifying what you meant and I tend to agree with that.

    *****Tend to agree that there has been far too much experiamantaion with “new “methods of teaching the core competences. *** Good I’m pleased you agree (experimentation BTW 🙂 )

    Well I have seen first hand the failure of some of the cavorts with literacy teaching and I am thankful that my wife and I put some much effort into teaching our children to read at an early age (my daughter could read before she started school)

    ****There is a clear limit to how small a mass education system can make class sizes and still be affordable. There is after all not an bottomless bucket of money to play with here. ****

    That’s why learning is limited in our schools … (but I thought money didn’t count?)

    I never said that money does not count what I said was we face the unassailable fact that there comes apoint where you have to spend ever greater amounts of money that gives ever smaller improvements in results.

    So what is the “clear limit” ….?

    Given the fact that despite ever more money being spent on education each year with not much changing the academic performance I reckon we must be pretty close to it now.

    As a guide for you … there are ways to facilitate learning within small teams (I prefer teams of three from practical experience) … I did facilitate a program called Develop Work Teams for managers and supervisors and I accepted up to 24 people – three teams of eight …

    That may work well for workplace training but it would be an unsustainable model for general education.

    *** And concentrate on learning not teaching …

    What do you mean by that?*****

    Many teachers, like many workplace trainers concentrate on the way they teach or train … the simple secret is to reverse that and not to look at what YOU do but how you can help the learner to reach an agreed outcome … and competency based learning units of competency is the best way to do this because they are more precise than a curiculum … attain competence and then develop capability … eg a person cannot express themselves in writing unless they learn the basics of literacy and maybe the more advanced levels of parsing, latin/greek roots etc … once that is achieved then you can move on to story structure and development (for which there are competencies as I’m sure Rick will agree) … then you can set the creative juices free for the learner … the teacher has assisted the learner to develop knowledge and skill … and the learner if they are creative now has the tools to put his/her ideas in readable form …

    No I disagree with much of that. if you are trying to teach someone to do what is essentially an industrial task then what you say about learning might hold true but when it comes to something like creative writing none of that stuff about the roots of words ect matter that much, as for narrative structure ect. well there as many ways to get to where you want to go as there authors.

    *****I certainly felt that watching him ponce out rote learned phrases last night on Lateline … I couldn’t help thinking that the local catlik school will probably get another 30 seater bus soon or a bigger one … as the state school kids ride their bikes, walk or catch public transport to school … and no chance of a rifle range … the local state schools do now have a hall … the three catlik schools all have shiny new Taj Mahal’s … I guess that argues that “postcode” is way too broad a brush to use …

    We both know that all players in the game of politics are schooled in media tactics so it is pointless to single any side out for particular scorn on that point.
    As for your envy-laden scorn about school facilities 🙄

    How old is your son? I thought he was at school? Lateline is on @ 10:30??

    I have never been a bedtime Nazi with my children TB

    So, if you don’t send your children to private school you don’t care about future … rather insulting to those of us who couldn’t afford and to those who choose not to expose their children to religious brainwashing … if churches paid taxes then they might have a case for public funding … but they don’t … I do …

    That is not what I said, or meant. As it happens I sort of agree with some of what you clearly believe about churches paying taxes,but only on their business enterprises (sanitarium foods comes to mind here) but it just does not follow that “paying tax” should be a prerequisite for public funding of private schools

    Not envy at all — imbalance of funds shifted by the Liberals to those who generally want the state to pay for religious brainwashing … you may have noticed that some of us don’t like that idea … and for your info private school graduates often perform poorly at university … this poncing about by Pyne is to return to the Howard years … with its disproportionate doling out of money to private schools …

    Oh dear your seething prejudice is showing big time here! In most cases private schools do not do the sort of indoctrination that you imagine none the less its up to parents to decide if they want their offspring to be imbued with the values that they themselves hold. Further the amount of money paid by the state towards each private school students education has always been substantially less than is paid towards students in state schools.

    There ya go again amateur psychoanalyst extraordinaire … 1. A mossie annoys me … a fkn tiger would upset me … 2. Wrong again, I’m neither insecure nor an athiest … 3. Nor do I give a fuck whether people agree with my beliefs – they are mine – and unlike those “with” religion I don’t need them to think like me … 4. You’ve never been like me … what a stupid statement … “and I grew up” – are you sure? … patronising or what?

    Methinks he doth protest too much!
    Don’t blame me for seeking the underlying psychology of your politics, especially when it is so evident in your personal rhetoric. But you are deluding yourself if your position is at all evident of the someone who is secure in their own religious beliefs. You constantly denigrate any religious believe even when it is entirely innocuous and you have this paranoid fear that every person of faith is out to “convert” you or others. Personally I argue against expression of religion that are actually pernicious which is why I am so often critical of Islam, but I don’t ever just hate the religious faith of others on principle the way that you do.

    I don’t have a problem? The problem is in your fkn head … I define evil in many different ways … ignorant stupidity is a major one … organised religion of any kind tends towards evil rather than kindness and violence rather than peace … but you seem to be defending them a lot ….

    Oh you poor deluded fool! If you did not have a “problem” with religion you would not be getting so het up about it and denouncing any expression of faith wherever you get the chance. Religions all exist to provide two things to their followers, firstly they exist to provide a frame work for a workable society and to reconcile their followers with their own mortality by promising an imagining of an afterlife, neither are of necessity bad (although some certainly are)but for the militant and insecure atheists like you their contrived certainty is just too scary so you rail against them all.

  33. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 28, 2013 10:03 am

    TB, my children go to private schools, and I pay plenty of tax.

    I really can’t follow a rationale that suggests that their education is undeserving of some taxpayer funds. My general observation is that private school teachers are held more accountable than those in the public sector. They’re approachable and communicative. School administration is reasonably responsive to the views of parents.

    In Victoria particularly people are voting with their feet, and demonstrating an increasing interest in private education.

    It is the (overall) bipartisan agreement on tertiary funding that is the real scandal.

  34. paul permalink
    November 28, 2013 10:16 am

    Dr Inane is in the house.

  35. TB Queensland permalink
    November 28, 2013 10:25 am

    Yes, ToM … I agree with all that actually … and yes tertiary funding is an issue but its actually the teacher training that needs to be revitalised AND the selection of good quality candidates not those who can’t get a place in any other course … (I think I touched on that …)

    It is a massive issue and funnily enough I can see how Christopher Pyne (and any layman) would look at it and say, Holy Fuck!

    I can just see the last of Inane’s, patronising lecture on my last post at the top of my screen … I might read the rest later but I’m busy setting up for a gig on Saturday so I don’t think I’ll have the time … 😉

  36. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 28, 2013 10:38 am

    “In Victoria particularly people are voting with their feet, and demonstrating an increasing interest in private education.”

    Same here in NSW. Something has changed with Public Schools. I personally went to Public Schools (Primary and Secondary). They were great. But something has changed in the last 20 years.

    A member of my family had his son bashed up and the teachers at the Public School did nothing. So he took his son out of the school and sent him to the Christian school nearby.

    And i don’t think smaller class sizes has made any difference to learning. In fact i think people leaving schools these days know less than kids who had class sizes of 40 back in the 1960’s.

  37. egg permalink
    November 28, 2013 10:42 am

    ‘Dr Inane is in the house.’

    Yep and appears to have the floor.

  38. November 28, 2013 10:50 am

    “Yep and appears to have the floor.”

    Not really…. I generally just scroll past his inane rants these days…

  39. November 28, 2013 10:50 am

    The latest nickname on twitter for the mincing poodle…

    PYNNOCHIO! 😆

  40. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 28, 2013 10:52 am

    “mincing poodle

    What is a mincing poodle??

  41. paul permalink
    November 28, 2013 10:58 am

    The way PYNNOCHIO is going we will have a second crossing over Sydney harbour sooner then we thought.

  42. paul permalink
    November 28, 2013 11:00 am

    The Pic at the beginning reminds me of the clowns at the show, where you put the ping pong balls in the clowns mouths, then win a prize, in this case the prize is an incompetent govt.

  43. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 28, 2013 11:13 am

    Teaching/education does need some sort of major restructuring. Having observed the level of respect and authority Principals command in private schools, the public ones should copy the model. Authority for performance management of teachers is a good place to start.

    I’m also happy to pay classroom teachers as professionals, as long as this is based on actual performance and promotion, not simply service and attendance at courses.

    But the disgrace is the reliance on HECS, which is a blight on the system.

  44. TB Queensland permalink
    November 28, 2013 11:26 am

    But the disgrace is the reliance on HECS, which is a blight on the system.

    Why? Or do you mean the compounding interest rate?

  45. TB Queensland permalink
    November 28, 2013 11:38 am

    A member of my family had his son bashed up and the teachers at the Public School did nothing. So he took his son out of the school and sent him to the Christian school nearby.

    And two kids in Brisbane have been stabbed in Catholic schools recently – one local to me … irrelevant argument …

    And there is no evidence that privately schooled children do better than public school students … based on NAPLAN and studies from university scores/dropouts.

    In fact many studies reach an opposite conclusion – public graduates do better than private – (I do know of more than one private school mum who did their children’s homework – could be a reason — hard to do for uni) …

    There may be some evidence that children from private schools find better jobs and earn more money … (may) … maybe that’s the “old school tie” syndrome worrking in their favour … when I went to management seminars I was often asked which schools or uni I had attended … my reply was always the same … Nashville Primary School and South Brisbane Automotive College … got some strange looks … after I graduated (UniSA) nobody asked me! 😆

  46. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 28, 2013 12:23 pm

    And there is no evidence that privately schooled children do better than public school students”

    Then why are parents wanting to send their kids to private schools??

    This is not a Labor vs Liberal thing. Parents from both sides of politics are sending their kids to private schools.

    How many Labor Party politicians sends their kids to Private schools??

  47. November 28, 2013 1:24 pm

    Oi, Inane, you fuckhead. Didn’t I already tell you that TB has long claimed to be an agnostic?! 🙄

    So he can hardly qualify as the ‘militant insecure atheist’ you’re trying to paint him as.

    You want to argue with an atheist, I’m more than happy to oblige. Fuck your own dilute claytons atheism.

  48. November 28, 2013 1:45 pm

    toiletcantankerousnightsoil

    To be frank I was unaware that TB claims to be an agnostic and the evidence of his own words shows someone who is far too antagonistic to people of (any) faith to qualify him as a fence sitter on matters spiritual. Remebering of course that a fence sitter is the perfect definition of an agnostic.
    As for arguing with you about atheism I doubt that there is a substantive difference between us on the non existence of any sort of deity, or the validity of any thing that is in any way claimed to be supernatural.
    Where we may differ though is that I feel no need to reinforce may own faith position (because atheism is certainly that) by denigrating the beliefs of others even when they are entirely silly. If those beliefs manifest actual harm to other people, well then criticism of the harm caused is another matter entirely.

    So what would we disagree about then?

  49. November 28, 2013 2:00 pm

    ” Remebering of course that a fence sitter is the perfect definition of an agnostic.”

    You really do spout a load of shit.

  50. paul permalink
    November 28, 2013 2:10 pm

    Shit ain’t the word reb, For someone who say’s he is an atheist, he sure talks a lot about religion, I mean he even was married in a church all those years ago, I think he has religious homophobia , as he is a homophobic.

  51. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 28, 2013 2:14 pm

    TB – ”Why? Or do you mean the compounding interest rate?”

    I think it is a disgrace that so many young people leave uni with a sense of huge debt. If we’re actually serious about encouraging more participation in tertiary education, we need to figure out a different funding model.

  52. November 28, 2013 2:25 pm

    Paul
    where on earth did you get your (incorrect) claim that I was married in a church? If you must know I was married by a civil celebrant under a tree by a creek in a cow paddock.

    Please define what you mean by this:

    I think he has religious homophobia , as he is a homophobic.

    Because if anyone has negative feelings about homosexuals I would say its you from the way that you denigrate Christopher pine by invoking a negative gay stereotype when you call him a “mincing poodle”

  53. paul permalink
    November 28, 2013 2:30 pm

    This describes Inane I think

  54. paul permalink
    November 28, 2013 2:31 pm

    Thank you Inane

  55. November 28, 2013 2:45 pm

    I think it helps to think of inane as Australia’s low-budget answer to the Westboro Baptist Church. He’s so indoctrinated with his own bullshit he can’t see beyond the hatred to look at himself objectively.

  56. paul permalink
    November 28, 2013 2:47 pm

    Well hall, you had better tell the rest of Australia that as well, because poodle pyne is the one being a big prick.

  57. paul permalink
    November 28, 2013 3:05 pm

    Inane is now going to start a one man campaign to stop giving politicians insulting nicknames. First place he should start his is own web site.

  58. November 28, 2013 3:24 pm

    Since 1947 the Indian government has tried to provide incentives for girls’ school attendance through programmes for midday meals, free books , and uniforms. This welfare thrust raised primary enrollment between 1951 and 1981. In 1986 the National Policy on Education decided to restructure education in tune with the social framework of each state, and with larger national goals. It emphasized that education was necessary for democracy, and central to the improvement of women’s condition. The new policy aimed at social change through revised texts, curricula, increased funding for schools, expansion in the numbers of schools, and policy improvements. Emphasis was placed on expanding girls’ occupational centres and primary education; secondary and higher education; and rural and urban institutions. The report tried to connect problems like low school attendance with poverty, and the dependence on girls for housework and sibling day care. The National Literacy Mission also worked through female tutors in villages. Although the minimum marriage age is now eighteen for girls, many continue to be married much earlier. Therefore, at the secondary level, female dropout rates are high.

  59. TB Queensland permalink
    November 28, 2013 3:57 pm

    Remebering of course that a fence sitter is the perfect definition of an agnostic.

    Inane, I’m agnostic towards there being a super being …

    Organised religions of believers who want to rule the world with thier crap … piss me off …

    As for fence sitter … I neither believe nor disbelieve … without evidence either way I’m more than relaxed with the concept that I shall probably die and in the words of a famous song in my birthplace … “worms’ll cum an’ ate thee up … ” if not so be it … I live here and now … and a wonderful life it is too …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I think it is a disgrace that so many young people leave uni with a sense of huge debt. If we’re actually serious about encouraging more participation in tertiary education, we need to figure out a different funding model.

    Right, we are both agreeing …

    probably drop by later … sorting an issue with one of the PA speakers …

  60. egg permalink
    November 28, 2013 4:09 pm

    ‘He’s so indoctrinated….’

    Not totally, he doesn’t believe in gorebull worming.

  61. November 28, 2013 5:04 pm

    TB

    Organised religions of believers who want to rule the world with their crap … piss me off …

    Tend to agree with that which is why I am so often critical of Islam,Strangely enough I cop an incredible amount of shit here for doing so, however that sort of complaint is somewhat over-played when it comes to Christianity which could not be seen as intent upon global domination.

    As for fence sitter … I neither believe nor disbelieve … without evidence either way I’m more than relaxed with the concept that I shall probably die and in the words of a famous song in my birthplace … “worms’ll cum an’ ate thee up … ” if not so be it … I live here and now … and a wonderful life it is too …

    So you are agreeing that you are a fence sitter, there is nothing shameful about having such a position its just that you do not demonstrate any willingness to accept the existence of a deity at all. Which is why I think that your claims of agnosticism are rather self-deceptive. As far as I can see you sound like the prefect candidate for the much vaunted deathbed conversion, just in case you are wrong. 😉

  62. paul permalink
    November 28, 2013 5:12 pm

    I thought this thread was about “The Government of “No Surprises” rewrites History”

    not a religious sermon from the Father Inane.

  63. Walrus permalink
    November 28, 2013 5:30 pm

    “And there is no evidence that privately schooled children do better than public school students … ”

    Oh…………………the comedy………..LOL

    Have a look at HSC high achievers.

    And if youreally believe that little throwaway is true then we should give them more public money to improve them

  64. TB Queensland permalink
    November 28, 2013 7:00 pm

    Which is why I think that your claims of agnosticism are rather self-deceptive. As far as I can see you sound like the prefect candidate for the much vaunted deathbed conversion, just in case you are wrong.

    WTF! “self deceptive”? “as far as I can see” (the nd of your fkn nose!) “sound like the prefect (sic) candidate” (you remind me of another Walter Mitty that used trudge these pages!) “the perfect candidate” … Who the fk do you think you are? The bloke with the ring of confidence?

    Father Fucking Inane?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Wally, stick to numbers sunshine, I do respect your advice as a CPA* tax guru … (Idon’t always take it 😉 )

    http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2013/01/08/3665845.htm

    And right up your delete alley from the Financial Review …

    http://tools.afr.com/viewer.aspx?URL=EDP://3fb83bd0-b0d3-11df-9447-a8cd95b01725

    Churchill died when?

    Join the 21st Century where even the son of a painter and decorator and a woollen mill wefter can become an undergraduate … if Australia is an egalitarian society why do we have such silly discussions? ALL children should have an equal opportunity … some may need more help to aspire …

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking

    Have a look at HSC high achievers. My son and his wife have two – both at public HS … life’s funny tho’ I left school at 14 (no HS) … and you already know my quals … (I need a shakin’ head smiley) …

  65. TB Queensland permalink
    November 28, 2013 7:02 pm

    Since 1947 the Indian government …

    Is that who I think it is??? 🙂

  66. November 28, 2013 7:26 pm

    TB

    WTF! “self deceptive”? “as far as I can see” (the nd of your fkn nose!) “sound like the prefect (sic) candidate” (you remind me of another Walter Mitty that used trudge these pages!) “the perfect candidate” … Who the fk do you think you are? The bloke with the ring of confidence?

    Father Fucking Inane?

    Don’t blame me for noticing the inconsistency between what you claim that you are an agnostic and the evidence in the the things that you say about religion which suggest that you are not at all ambivalent about such things..

  67. November 28, 2013 8:57 pm

    Reb You keep deleting this …but I can assure you that this is the modus operandi of a serial thread hijacking troll.
    Look at the flow of this thread and map the antagonist..
    https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Iain_Hall

  68. Walrus permalink
    November 28, 2013 10:07 pm

    “Have a look at HSC high achievers. My son and his wife have two – both at public HS … life’s funny tho’ I left school at 14 (no HS) … and you already know my quals … (I need a shakin’ head smiley) …”

    Well that’s overwhelming empirical evidence

    And you Lefties make fun of Sancty and his mates on the GBR ?

    LOL

  69. November 28, 2013 11:21 pm

    Without a `national-direction` that is agreed and `defended` by all politicians, education is just fiddled with at the edges. We can sentence people to Uni until they are 30 and make all the population have `doctorates` and debts(50k-100k), but then what, what jobs will then be available for them, that won`t be out-sourced to lndia or China. Until the politicians develop the `vision` and policy`s on the JOBS, the rest of the tertiary education is really quite bullshit.

  70. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 28, 2013 11:23 pm

    Fascinating

    As shortsightedness so often is

  71. egg permalink
    November 28, 2013 11:33 pm

    ‘…out-sourced to lndia or China.’

    If they are brighter and cheaper then they deserve the spoils.

  72. November 28, 2013 11:53 pm

    ‘ ‘ ‘out-sourced to lndia or China.’ ‘ ‘
    ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘If they are brighter and cheaper then they deserve the spoils.’ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘

    You do realize that your nipple-benefits don`t get paid from China or lndia Dumpty.?

  73. egg permalink
    November 29, 2013 7:43 am

    We still have the quarry.

  74. November 29, 2013 1:15 pm

    Ricky
    Give it up matey because if you believe even half of the crap that you keep linking to then you should consider not making me care enough to bother with you.

  75. December 1, 2013 1:36 am

    I’m not your carer Hall,,, In I fact don’t. You created your own reputation all by yourself pal. I suppose all the blogs you are banned from are picking on you too 🙄

  76. December 1, 2013 10:38 am

    Ricky boy
    Do you think that I care one iota that I have been banned from a few blogs?

    As for my reputation 🙄 much of it has been created by petty toerags like you, Individuals who are so juvenile that they can’t stop trying to get some sort of vengeance because I have called them out on their political opinions or exposed their conceits .
    The thing is you have cited that hate page here many times which is frankly very boring, the regulars here have obviously seen your links and I doubt very much if they even bother to click them, even if they have checked out the page previously. Its very old news indeed.
    In essence you demean yourself every time you try to cite that page here and else where.
    If you disagree with my opinions then argue against them and I bet that the regulars here may even agree with you on occasion, heck you may even change my mind if you are persuasive enough.
    What it boils down to is that you are a thuggish boor with an over inflated ego who can’t get past the fact that I once said that you deserved your ticker troubles. Your continuing vendetta against me certainly proves my sarcasm at the time had more than a speck of truth to it.

  77. TB Queensland permalink
    December 1, 2013 11:00 am

    Well that’s overwhelming empirical evidence

    And your evidence? Have a look at HSC achievers … we were talking about effectiveness at uni … my point being that HSC achievers come from both public AND private schools … its how they “achieve” afterwards, without mum doing their homework, that really counts … and that evidence is not anecdotal … ’tis factual …

    But its not just kids, in my own “class” we had 60 starters (it was a distance ed, in-service degree) only 8 of us graduated five years later …

  78. December 1, 2013 11:24 am

    I’m rapidly growing tired of Inane Hall….

  79. December 1, 2013 11:26 am

    “Reb You keep deleting this …

    Nah it just got caught in the spam filter…

    “a serial thread hijacking troll.

    Yeah, I know…. and I think he’s outlived his “usefulness” on this blog.

  80. paul permalink
    December 1, 2013 11:33 am

    heck you may even change my mind if you are persuasive enough.

    laughed at that 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    inane, you have a one track mind, your way is the only way and anyone else opinion is always wrong.

  81. paul permalink
    December 1, 2013 11:43 am

    “heck you may even change my mind if you are persuasive enough.”

    That sounds something that the government would say.

  82. paul permalink
    December 1, 2013 12:03 pm

    The Abbott deleting his speeches from his web site.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbotts-controversial-speeches-wiped-20131130-2yiez.html

    If Mr Internet builds his version of the NBN, The Abbott will be happy, no one will be able to connect to the net to find all his broken policies.

  83. egg permalink
    December 1, 2013 12:06 pm

    “It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

  84. December 2, 2013 1:24 am

    Did not even read your reply, your a tiresome welfare bore.

    A nasty vindictive troll living an insignificant unfulfilled life cheating the taxpayer due to an acute lack of talent, a high opinion of your own relevance and a bone lazy attitude.

    That article and the countless others are a reflection of your own actions. You revealed your true self in spades when you wished me dead after my heart operation , so fuck you lie in your own shit Inane.

    Keep sticking up for Abbott and Bolt it becomes a man befitting your bad judgement, moral fortitude and ethics.

  85. December 2, 2013 9:03 am

    What Ricky said! 🙂

  86. TB Queensland permalink
    December 2, 2013 9:40 am

    Mondayitis?

    I don’t know why you all pick on Inane … doesn’t his opinion count too?

  87. paul permalink
    December 2, 2013 10:24 am

    Yes, what Ricky said. 🙂

  88. TB Queensland permalink
    December 2, 2013 10:28 am

    I’m rapidly growing tired of Inane Hall….

    Just a little thought for yer, sreb 😉

  89. paul permalink
    December 5, 2013 9:28 am

    didn’t the abbott say he would not make deals with minor parties while in government, especially the greens, what is this.

    Treasurer Joe Hockey has denied being “married to the Greens” after the Federal Government brokered a new deal with the minor party to scrap the debt ceiling.

    Looks like a deal with a minor party. Hypocrites

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-05/opposition-criticises-greens-government-deal-scrap-debt-ceiling/5135682

  90. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 5, 2013 9:46 am

    The real worry about the debt is the rapid rate of increase. Rudd introduced the debt ceiling in 2007 and set it at $75B.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_government_debt

    “The debt ceiling was created in 2007 for itself by the Rudd Government and set at $75 billion. It was increased in 2009 to $200 billion,[5] $250 billion in 2011 and $300 billion in May 2012
    .”

    And what have we got to show for all that debt?? Trouble with Labor supporters is that they have no shame. It is almost impossible to make a Labor supporter blush so proud and arrogant they are.

  91. paul permalink
    December 5, 2013 9:50 am

    And how many links have there been kneel to show that the Howard Government was the worst in financial matters, but them continually saying they were better at running the countries finances.

  92. TB Queensland permalink
    December 5, 2013 10:16 am

    Kneel, in some sort of Freudian Fog you constantly use adjectives to describe ALP supporters that are more descriptive of the Tories (in effect you actually describe yourself) … born to rule, better than the rest, private school bullies, not me sir, it was ‘im … how you must yearn for knighthoods to return … kneel, Sir Kneel … 🙄

    Was Christine challenged in the halls of power … like some uni student?

  93. Walrus permalink
    December 5, 2013 11:11 am

    “didn’t the abbott say he would not make deals with minor parties while in government, especially the greens, what is this.”

    MONUMENTALLY EPIC FAIL !

    That was to form government. Pretty bloody obviously he was unlikely to get a Senate majority so he’d always need to do deals with somebody.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/tony-abbott-banishes-the-greens-from-the-lower-house/story-fni0cx12-1226696646808

  94. Walrus permalink
    December 5, 2013 11:13 am

    And as Joe Hockey points out.

    The Debt Ceiling was not actually a “Ceiling” to the corrupt ALP/Greens/Nutcase Indo Coalition.

    It was nothing other than a Debt Target for them

  95. December 5, 2013 11:16 am

    Joe Hockey had a nice blue suit on in Parliament yesterday.

  96. Walrus permalink
    December 5, 2013 11:30 am

    I saw him on a repeat of Annabel’s Kitchen Cabinet the other night.

    He’s hopeless in the kitchen which means he must eat out all the time while in Canberra meaning calorie overload

  97. TB Queensland permalink
    December 5, 2013 11:33 am

    Your now making excuses for Joe Hockey being overweight????? 😯

    FMD! 🙄

  98. Walrus permalink
    December 5, 2013 11:35 am

    “Your now making excuses for Joe Hockey being overweight?????”

    So I guess you’d have the build of a finely tuned athlete ………………….would you ?

  99. Walrus permalink
    December 5, 2013 11:36 am

    Go and take your fucking happy pills you grump…………………………….

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