Motivational Bullshit!
So I have this colleague at work who I’m on quite friendly terms with who also happens to be a fitness freak. But it wasn’t always this way. Three years ago he broke up with his then wife and went through a quite bitter divorce which left him financially strapped. He was quite podgy at the time, and turned to running as a way to deal with the stress.
Today, he’s a lean mean fitness machine and goes for a 10km run pretty much every morning before work. He also cycles, and goes in regular marathons etc. Needless to say he’s a lot fitter than me.
Now that’s all very well you might think, but lately he’s been trying to get me to buy this weight loss and fitness shake powder called Isagenix. Isagenix is like Amway for the weight loss industry. They don’t want you to buy just the odd tub of weight loss powder, they want you to sign up for life! And it’s not cheap either.
Anyway, after trying this so-called weight loss powder for 3 months and not shedding an ounce I told him I didn’t want to buy anymore and was informed that I hadn’t lost any weight because ”you are meant to exercise as well.”
More recently, he’s taken to posting motivational quotes on his facebook page, and sticking photos of himself in lycra on his office cubicle.
Now don’t get me wrong, I think it’s great that he’s happy with himself with his new-found fitness, but to go around trying to enlist others to take this Isagenix shit (which is just a source of supplementary income for him), as well as sending emails and updates, like today for example “Have an awesome Monday,” as well as “Be the best you you can be!” (What even does that fucking mean?), is just taking things too far.
How should I tell him our friendship is over?
theguttertrash.com 
I’ve always found that ‘Fuck off!’ is a good opener.
Tell him you are becoming a vegan instead.
For what it’s worth, and I’ve done the experiment on myself, this LCHF eating regime (I hate the word ‘diet’) might work for you if you want to trim a few excess kilos but don’t ever want to feel hungry (you don’t even have to exercise that much).
But there is a big WARNING! that goes with this. It goes against everything we’ve been told for the last 40 years about what constitutes a healthy diet. If you can get your head around that, you might want to give it a go.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/how-to-lose-weight
A little pointed piss-taking should do the trick. Ask him if ever considered a career selling used automobiles. Or whether it is a side effect of his product that his penis appears to have taken residence upon his shoulders.
That LCHF regime all sounds very well ToSY, but this si where I generally fall down:
Drink water with your meal or (occasionally) a glass of wine.
Occasionally…?
A glass……..????
I’ve lost 40kg in the last two years.
Step 1 take up swimming, work up to about 12km a week. (Or find an exercise you really like.)
Step 2 give up potatoes, white bread and white rice.
Step 3 portion control.
While not as good as Xanax, swimming is mentally beneficial. Also because I have to get up early to swim I drink a little less each night.
Thats very commendable Splatter.
We’ve replaced rice with Quinoa in the reb household.
Its the first I’ve heard of it.
http://thestonesoup.com/blog/2010/06/12-things-you-should-know-about-quinoa/
I walk to the gym every morning before breakfast and put in 20 minutes building muscle.
Tony’s idea of eating real food is a start, but dairy products need to be cut back. I know a few vegetarians who are obese simply because of their love for cheese.
My advice – go surfing, drink plenty of red and live with someone who can’t cook.
I hope you guys are all having a really awesome Monday!
“I hope you guys are all having a really awesome Monday!”
Like a few people, I imagine, I’m feeling desperately tired. I want to go to sleep on my office floor.
I am also trying to figure out the Ukraine crisis.
Basically Russia has its large Black Sea naval base in Crimea. So it can project power. It will not give up Crimea, which is a Russian majority area. The reason it has a largely Russian population is:
“It was in Crimea that leaders of the winning sides of the war – US president Franklin Roosevelt, British prime minister Winston Churchill and Stalin – huddled in the Livadia palace in the seaside resort of Yalta in February 1945 to decide what Europe would look like after the war.
The Soviet leader who took over from Stalin after his death, Nikita Khrushchev, transferred Crimea as a “gift” to Ukraine in a surprise move in 1954.”
I don’t think Putin is too worried about being called an indian giver and I am certain the West has intention of starting a war over this. Hence Obama’s “weak” response. He is just going through the motions while the inevitable happens.
The question is whether Russia will allow the western bit of the Ukraine go its own way or try to control the whole place. If he is smart he will negotiate a peaceful excision of Crimea now, while he has all the aces. The Crimeans won’t mind and the rest of Ukraine might be grateful to free of the Russians.
“I’m feeling desperately tired. I want to go to sleep on my office floor.”
You and me both… *sigh*
I had to put up with a young financial type recently. Everything was “awesome” (apparently)
I wonder whether he knows how to use the synonym checking thingo, because “grand” and “splendid” seem useful alternatives.
What a day for Aussie heros!!
Our Cate won some award in the USA!! For acting!!
Our Aussies are thrashing the South Africans!!
OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!OI!
“I’m feeling desperately tired. I want to go to sleep on my office floor.”
“You and me both… *sigh* “
me three, I could sleep anywhere
I finished ND this am, went to bed at 8:30 am and back up at 11:00 for an appointment. I’m having a wine and soon I’llll beee asleeeeeep zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Good work Splatter..!!!
I think that anyone who uses the word Awesome is not so awesome. Maybe tell him that you have been shelfing them?
@ Tony…..
“Avoid Beer”????????
“me three, I could sleep anywhere”
I hope everyone is feeling refreshed today.
As an aside, yesterday I was complaining about how long it takes kids to grow up and the relative immaturity of some of mine. My friend noted that these days 18 is the new 8. -:) I would agree but that would be monumentally hypocritical. It took me to at least 40 to even feel like I’d grown up, but even then I was deceiving myself.
I hope everyone is feeling refreshed today.
Feeling much better today thanks sb
You have a great insight into yourself as a male, I don’t hear many men admitting to a lack of maturity [although it is usually very obvious] in my experience they make jokes and change the subject asap. I thought about 35 yrs, you do yourself an injustice!
For myself, I know that when I married at 25 yrs, I really had no idea about life, myself or what I really wanted & needed. Then there is the daily grind that wears you down, the unequal give and take of relationships and in my own case, the impact that in-laws [esp M-I-L] would have upon my psyche. I felt much more confident around 30-35 yrs but by then I was in charge of two children and thoughts of self disappear until their bed time. Then there is the work. I seem to have a long list of projects that I want to do “when I have the time”, I worry that when I retire, I won’t have the energy or the physical ability to do them, so now have to work on staying fit, active and mentally alert for when I have time to enjoy and indulge myself.
There are two quotes that seem very apt, as john lennon said, “life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans” and “youth is wasted on the young” [don’t know the author]
After reading over all that I’ve just said, I think wine o’clock is going to come early today 🙂
Wise words bottom and Kitty…
well, we know this guy is motivated to survive [at least he’s safe 🙄 ]
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-04/drongo-loses-himself-looking-for-dingo/5297176
“life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans”
Exactly right.
The point is to enjoy dealing with what life serves up, to learn, but not to waste time with useless emotions like recrimination and regret.
“I seem to have a long list of projects that I want to do “when I have the time”, I worry that when I retire, I won’t have the energy or the physical ability to do them, so now have to work on staying fit, active and mentally alert for when I have time to enjoy and indulge myself.”
That is what got me to get fit – I didn’t want to start the downhill run from an unhealthy base position. The battle of wits here is good for keeping the brain active.
“I felt much more confident around 30-35 yrs but by then I was in charge of two children and thoughts of self disappear until their bed time. “
I found it like that as well – too busy coping with the responsibility, but enjoying seeing them grow and change. My shrink says altruistic activity is very good, and raising children is exactly that. Probably the best years. Maybe TB can comment on the joys of grandkids when he gets back. I get the impression he enjoys it immensely.
My favourite lyric is from Paul WIlliams: “Every act of kindness is a little bit of love we leave behind”.
Every day and in every interaction we have with people we have a chance to make the world a little nicer (except when arguing with leftists, of course 🙂 ).
Every day and in every interaction we have with people we have a chance to make the world a little nicer (except when arguing with leftists, of course
the system you support allows no time for people to interact properly or even nicely, they are holed up in the safety of their mcmansions and only interested in themselves, too time poor, stressed or scared to do anything nice for others 🙂
“The point is to enjoy dealing with what life serves up, to learn, but not to waste time with useless emotions like recrimination and regret.
So very very true…
One of my favourite sayings is “holding onto anger is like drinking poison and hoping that the other person dies…”
“the system you support allows no time for people to interact properly or even nicely, they are holed up in the safety of their mcmansions and only interested in themselves, too time poor, stressed or scared to do anything nice for others 🙂 “
We both want to make the world a better place. We just have different views as to how that might be achieved. But happiness and kindness are always available even in the most adverse circumstances. We see it in the accounts of the Nazi death camps and in the gulag writings of Solzhenitsyn.
“holding onto anger is like drinking poison and hoping that the other person dies…”
That is brilliant. Also applies to embitterment about personal tragedy. Sometimes it is better to grieve and to not remember too often.
The point is to enjoy dealing with what life serves up, to learn, but not to waste time with useless emotions like recrimination and regret.
I would add prejudice, hate, judgement and blame to all of those above, the negative emotions are so damaging and the fallout can spread through generations.
One of my favourite sayings is “holding onto anger is like drinking poison and hoping that the other person dies…”
I like that reb
I always remember the chinese reply to the US who were once again railing against their economic policy “you can’t cure your own sickness by asking others to take the medicine”
which to my mind is exactly what the US does with all their free trade deals.
Fucking lazy fucking Federal Public Servants.
And some arseholes wonder why people are so fucking fed up with paying taxes when we have to look after lazy c**ts like this………..
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/public-service/mentally-damaged-public-servants-win-in-battle-for-workers-compensation-20140304-341jl.html
‘which left the Centrelink office without a psychologist one day each week’
Simple solution, they should have found another psychologist for Friday.
This is sensible, Qantas offloading much of the head office overheads. Unfortunately Qantas has found some difficulty in shedding the remnants of its public service history – it retains too much middle management, people who just pass information up or down the company without adding any value.
There is no head office function in Qantas that can’t be carried out more effectively by outsourced or offshore organisations.
But the real scandal is that the ALP won’t get out of the way of sensible reform of the aviation industry.
http://www.news.com.au/national/first-of-5000-qantas-workers-to-go-from-sydney-airport-as-airline-starts-cuts/story-e6frfkp9-1226845495220
‘SYDNEY Qantas staff described morale as ‘shit’ amid reports their jobs will be the first to go today as the airline begins to strip out $2 billion in operating costs.’
Daily Terror
Does anybody know how much redundancy payments Qantas workers get?? If they get two years it will be two years before Qantas saves some money.
From the little reading i have done it looks like Qantas does pay higher wages than say Virgin, most probably due to strong Unions.
Same for Holden/Toyota. They pay much higher wages than the components manufacturers in Victoria who will also lost their jobs when Holden/Toyota folds. Apparently all they have to do is pay the Toyota/Holden workers the same wages as the components manufacturers and our car manufacturing would survive. The wages however are not great.
No matter what it costs to trim the carrier, they have to clear the decks to sell it.
Neil, Qantas pays a very generous redundancy package. It is up to 4 weeks per year of service, people get paid out until the date of their retirement if they have enough service!
Yes, that means that they’re paid as much not to work, as they are to continue working.
Additionally, Qantas provides airline travel benefits to retrenched employees! That means they can continue to get some amazingly cheap fares long after they leave.
The costly baggage that hangs around the airline is disgraceful.
On the other hand, Virgin pays less – how unions can argue that Virgin employees should be paid less than Qantas is a source of amazement to me. Virgin also contracts out many of the services, therefore there a much lower cost, without the excessive, traditional airline benefits.
Qantas needs significant continuing reform to survive, its cost basis is unsustainable.
it`s called `pyramid` selling, and for the lowest levels of this type of crap, they really require signing up `recruits` to make any worthwhile money.
””””””””On the other hand, Virgin pays less – how unions can argue that Virgin employees should be paid less than Qantas is a source of amazement to me.”””””’
#Confusion-in-the-cubicle 😆
l really don`t see how you can be `confused` yomm, you always advocate FOR fat-cat boardrooms, and when challenged, you flee.
After all, it doesn`t seem to `amaze` you that a month or two of Joyce`s salary, will be more than what many will earn in their `whole` life-time, but you can always advocate for the poorest to belt-tighten.
“ it`s called `pyramid` selling, and for the lowest levels of this type of crap, they really require signing up `recruits` to make any worthwhile money.
Exactly 730, and the products themselves are grossly over-priced to begin with…
“After all, it doesn`t seem to `amaze` you that a month or two of Joyce`s salary, will be more than what many will earn in their `whole` life-time, but you can always advocate for the poorest to belt-tighten.”
OK. What sort of salary do you think the head of Qantas should earn??
Leadership is important and leaders set the tone. What salary should Joyce get??
7.30’s solution for Qantas-
*Find a cheaper CEO
*Book a loss of $499mill instead of $500mill
*Do what the unions ask
That should work.
“Find a cheaper CEO”
AGREED!
At $5 million a year, Joyce is a dud who blames everyone else for the airilne’s woes except himself.
What has Qantas delivered to shareholders in the last five years? NOTHING – except relegating the stock’s value to junk status.
There’s only so long that you can blame the lowly employees who work on the tarmac YoM and expect people to believe that Joyce is somehow without blame in all of this…
I believe Jetstar is doing better than Qantas. Is this correct??
If so they just have to pay the Qantas workers the same as they are paying Jetstar workers.
Shorten is full of crap.
Safety has to do with engineering standards that Qantas applies to its whole fleet, regardless of where the work is carried out
It should also be noted that the good record of Australian aviation (for decades) is equal to about 5 or 6 months of flying in the USA.
Note to Shorten – Get the government out of telling airlines who should own them. An airline is no different to any other business.
http://www.news.com.au/finance/redundancies-offered-as-qantas-sale-act-changes-pass-lower-house-of-parliament/story-e6frfm1i-1226846669899#
—————–
So once Qantas gets a cheaper CEO, its problems are over?
Qantas actually already does quite a lot of maintenance overseas.
Does Bill Short-Term have a Plan B ?
Fuck me dead……………………..what is more Australian………………….Qantas or Vegemite
Because I guarantee more Australians use Vegemite every day not really caring that it’s foreign owned.
So get over the fucking jingoism Australia
“get over the fucking jingoism Australia”
HEAR HEAR!
It would be nice if Vegemite was Australian owned. I am sure some profits go overseas which would be nice if they stayed in Australia.
By the way is there a list of salaries paid to Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin pilots?? it is said that Qantas pays its workers more. It may be nice to see if this is true.
So a repeal of the Sales Act passed smoothly through the lower house, but will fail getting through the Senate.
What happens then?
Well i did a google search and found some figures. Don’t know how accurate they are.
A330 Captains (excluding Super)
Qantas approx $275K/year
Virgin Long Haul approx $235K/year
Virgin approx $205K/year
Jetstar approx $205K/year
What happens then?
Two senate enquiries, presented before June, then two double triggers after the winter break.
Kneel is solving this corporate crisis with google approximation and a comparative salary analysis so he can hold court in the mirror with all the facts 🙄
Walrus..Jingoism Hear hear… Nobody wanted to buy Vegemite or Arnotts now they bitch about it nostalgically.
The winter of our discontent..bring on a dissolution Egg.. The Abbot will be flattened now people have come to their senses. Rumblings of Plibersek over the next year, Short Term is toast.
‘The winter of our discontent..bring on a dissolution Egg.. ‘
The monk only has to hold the prospect of a DD over the heads of the new Senate to get the desired result.
As Short Term Bill was ranting in parliament I had my eyes on cool and composed Tanya. Definitely leadership potential.
Multiple Choice
Qantas started out in the early 20th century as a
1) Private Company
2) idea put forward by a fucking brain dead federal public servant
Which one ?
Let it return to being a private company.
Hear Hear !
Why would it be a good idea for Qantas to be Chinese owned ?
Because they already do stuffed kangaroos
And a Monopoly of all that Aussie shit in Tourist Gift shops, trust em they know what they are doing… 🙄
Walrus,,Bit simplistic mate..Qantas was used to sort out the tyranny of distance in Australia..but I sort of agree…let the little poison dwarf sink em and old China plate will be up that quicker than a malbot in a Huawei router. The Flying Panda?
””’get over the fucking jingoism””
fully agree blubbers, aussies wanted the quick cash and flogged-off all this shit like vegemite, telecom, arnotts, qantas, commbank, and should suck it up, it`s gone
+++++
”””*Do what the unions ask”””
Yeah, keep fleeing yomm, run from the meat and potatoes of the comment as usual.
Defending your own theory of gluttony yomm, which often falls to bits, all you can do is resort to your stupid `unions-boo`nonsense,
#but-you`re-not-a-troll-banned-from-the-coffee-shop
in your defense of boardroom gluttony, you spectacularly fail to account for shareholder`s loss, first of cash, following soon, knowledgeable staff of most levels of Qantas operations, and junk-status Qantas stock.
#still-running-a-wisdom-free-cubicle
Hey Kneel here is some harsh facts that Abbott just cant help himself but lie about..http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/qantas-carbon-tax-bill-has-been-covered-by-ticket-surcharge
Yeah, keep fleeing yomm, run from the meat and potatoes of the comment as usual.
Still no suggestion of how to stabilise Qantas, other than “sack Joyce and do what the unions want”
What exactly is your plan or even suggestion for salvaging it?
“Qantas carbon tax bill has been covered by ticket surcharge”
So a $106M tax bill has no effect??
Even Piers Akerman is giving Alan Joyce both barrels today in the Daily Terror
I think its unanimous now……………………….Joyce and most of the Board just have to go
I mean what sort of fucking idiot of a CEO would tell his competition that he was “draining a line in the sand” to keep domestic market share at 65:35.
So now Borghetti just has to put 1 extra flight on and Qantas will need to put on an extra 2.
Since when do you tell your competition what your strategy is ?
Well as an unfortunate Qantas shareholder…don’t ask they were free. Killing Joyce off and his failed attempts for world domination is a good start.
His attempts to restructure the business by expanding and taking a rather aggressive stnce against his own workers most of which are shareholders is an abysmal failure…
Now the only option is downsizing as opposed to his supersizing option. Sell off all those parked planes for a start. Joyce has effectively tanked the share price, borrowing potential and limited what can be done, either way they need somebody new. He has had his run and failed.
The point just goes whistling past your ears don’t it Kneel..Would you like to buy the harbor bridge? We can offer you shares, like Tony and Alan we never would lie to you as we have nice pamphlets.
The Australian publics real problem with Qantas can be sourced back to its advertising agencies that came up with the “Still Call Australia Home” plus “The Spirit of Australia- The Flying Kangaroo” campaigns.
Both of those campaigns still resonate today and give the public this weird sense of “ownership”.
If I was a Qantas shareholder I’d like to seeee them keep the profitable Domestic and lease out the International Branding and collect a decent size licencing fee from another all based on strict commercial conditions re safety etc
That might mean more inflight meals of noodles and pho soup but I was never a fan of Neil Perry.
But I’m not a shareholder and never will be.
Warren Buffett used to own an airline and he said it cost him a helluva lot of money and then he sold at a loss.
These days he has a rule that whenever he is tempted to buy into an airline he goes away and has a lie down and when he gets up the urge has passed.
“Qantas carbon tax bill has been covered by ticket surcharge”
Nice. So it’s as simple as raising ticket prices? In that case, all Qantas needs to do is divide their $300m loss by the number of passenger miles travelled and add the relevant portion to all this financial year’s tickets. Et voila, loss eliminated. Apparently, in Guardian land, ticket prices have no effect on the number sold. 🙄
#Go Ricky.
.
#Mr Rabbit told Lies,
.
#l say again, Mr-Rabbit told Lies.
#Net effect was ZERO
.
#Still Zero.
.
#Yep. Still Zero.
.
#Talk about screwy.
#These stupid fcuking Teabags just can`t tell the truth.
#Guess who set the `fares` too Low.?
Typically teabagz ducks any answer about how to salvage Qantas.
*Sack Joyce
*Don’t blame the carbon tax
*Do what unions want
Great business plan.
=======
If Qantas didn’t pay $100mill+ in a carbon tax, would they be better off?
Rabbit by the day… He’s certainly setting a new bar in stupidity, no wonder with all the Puerile pundits that put him there to make themselves look smart….
Abbott locking up the truth… the infrastructure guy who has to many national parks that pesky freeloading “entitlement ” flora and fauna languish around in stopping environmental loggers from their important work 🙄
”””sack Joyce””’-agree, said that,
.
”””do what the unions want””’WRONG,
l never said that, by now you should know l`m not pre-welded to `any` idealogical position or mantra, you`re not too bright or observant yomm,
.
””What exactly is your plan or even suggestion for salvaging it?””
+and
””’Still no suggestion of how to stabilise Qantas,””
unlike you yomm, l actually have the nads to state a clear position, not just the mealy-mouthed, timid utterances you resort to yomm,
so for your benefit, l said ages ago,
Govt should unfetter Qantas on `ownership`, and not allow the ownership issue be a future Govt liability,
not `gift` Qantas directly, nor indirectly with `credit`guarantees,
Let the shareholders sort out problems with `their` company and `their` boardroom, it is not the tax-payers problem, nor Govts once `unfettered`,
as l said before,
keep fleeing yomm, run from the meat and potatoes of the comment as usual.
See yomm, blubbers and l have the nads to state clearly our view,
#GrowSome
Back on this thread you hadn`t grown any, and mealy-mouthed around the meat and potatoes too yomm.
#Have they dropped yet.?
Back here yomm, you didn`t have any nads either, fleeing the meat and potatoes,
#You really need to grow some nads.
That’s nice teabagz, you endorse the government’s position.
I do as well, except I also advocate a ‘plan b’ as the legislative changes are unlikely to succeed.
The government has been correctly criticised for a lack of a ‘plan b’.
Do you think Qantas should fail because of a political stalemate?
l don`t `endorse` anything, as l don`t `know` teh-Govts `full` position.
l don`t criticize Mr-Rabbit for not having a `plan-b` either. Mr-Rabbit is a dud and can barely scrape together a `plan-a`, and not having a plan-b, and not being able to gather support for plan-a come as no surprise to me, and shouldn`t to anybody in control of their own faculties.
Qantas `should` be unfettered on ownership,
and fail/succeed under its own steam.
How unsurprising.
A preference to allow Qantas to fail because of a political impasse.
‘Let ‘er rip!’ Just like the Liberals…now, who is a ‘teabag’?
The only `preference` l have is `unfetter`.
Qantas fail/success is totally in the hands of the stockholders, and the boardroom they pay million$ to.
As we/Aust has ridden ourselves of `gold`medal, essential assets, telstra, electric, water, commbank, and `bronze`medal asset(at-best) TAA, l won`t be making `any` argument for taxpayers to fund/keep `private` assets.
#Qantas is `private` and wasn`t even `bronze`medal when public owned.
Maybe Rolf Harris could knock up a new theme? ..Oh Hang on wait 🙄
Let`er rip, has been what teabags such as ya`self have been demanding yomm, it is fools such as ya`self that insist on following the road-map to Detroit, but then will be all `shocked` when the same detroit type `negatives` start piling up in your society/city/area. Just as l have always known Mr-Rabbit is a `dud`, and always will be, teabags without brains or nads, such as ya`self yomm, will just have to learn to lay in the bed they made.
”””Qantas to fail because of a political impasse.”””
Really.? Qantas will fail because of a ””’political-impasse.?””’
See, thats the difference between us yomm, you just don`t have the nads to directly say whats what, and grovel around as a corporate apologist.
#Qantas will fail(if) because of its overpaid, incompetent boardroom.
#You also seem so certain it will fail. l am not.
“Maybe Rolf Harris could knock up a new theme? ”
Mmmmmmmmmmmm……………………..Tie Me Kangaroo Down
7:34 Reportland………………………..is there a reason you speak in the hash tagland of Twitter ?
Still teabagz insists on a political solution to Qantas, ie “change the legislation”.
No idea of the business decisions required. Nothing, other than endorsement of the Liberal’s policy.
Nobody answered my question
“OK. What sort of salary do you think the head of Qantas should earn??”
Leadership is important and i can see people would say why put in an effort when Joyce is being paid so much.
I would like Qantas to be successful however the leftoids do not offer much help.
Perhaps Jetstar should buy Qantas, sack everyone and then put them on new EBA’s paying the workers what Jetstar workers get?? At least we would end up with an Australian owned company.
And in fairness Teabagz denies he is endorsing the Liberal Party policy so I should say –
“Nothing, other than
endorsementadvocating a mirror image of the Liberal’s policy.Knell you say the most incredulously odd things….lettoids are no help, how much should a ceo get?.. Piolets get too much, its the Unions, Its the Carbon Tax…..lots of pointless speculative wax lyrical hyperventilating to prove what? you have no answer but to blame those opposed to your terrorgraph informed pamphlet ideology?
You seem to have so many simplistic answers, why don’t you run Qantas?
As a shareholder, I give you the green light as my shares are worth more for wiping my ass with.
I think you may want to take into consideration that most of the Senior management of Quant ass are members of you beloved fiberal party. 🙄
I’ve also got a few Qantas shares, unfortunately.
“you have no answer”
Absolutely.
And i am older then you.This has been going on since the 1970’s. Back then we used to make everything except high speed cameras. It is now mostly all gone.
I do not want Qantas to be foreign owned.
What to do?? Perhaps Aussies are just too lazy and we deserve what is happening.
“I’ve also got a few Qantas shares, unfortunately.”
Does this have an effect on your comments???
No, I simply think Qantas needs a major overhaul.
I think Joyce has shown a lot of courage in trying to reform a lazy public service, time serving, chain dragging, “put the customer last” culture. But I suppose everyone has a use by date.
Neil you seem to think that this something new. Qantas had one of the highest accreditation for maintenance with boeing a in the world. We had an industry doing maintenance for other airlines. strong closed that down along with their training facilities. My mate left Qantas after 30 years service and walked strait into a job with Turbo Mecca. as an accredited LAME.
Tom where is all this laziness you talk of I have a few friends who work for the flyin Kangaroo and they’re about as far from lazy as you could get.. Is this hearsay? Joyce is a failure. He has dragged the airline in the wrong direction. He is not as good as he thinks, much of his success is hype… otherwise he would have runs on the board. He has monumentally failed and more importantly, devalued the company which has gone backwards on his watch. His dalliances into long haul competition has tanked the company.
l see ya`still don`t have the nads to answer even the simple questions yomm, you would prefer to engage in trollish antics and mealy mouthed management slogans from ya`cubicle.
#Still.Fleeing
””””””””””””
So you prefer Govt. to continue to fcuk about with Qantas `ownership`, so Qantas can extort `welfare` from Govt.? ls that correct yomm.?
https://theguttertrash.com/2014/02/14/rostrum-dont-panic-edition/#comment-45316
””””””””””””’
”””””””””I think Joyce has shown a lot of courage in trying to reform a lazy public service, time serving, chain dragging, “put the customer last” culture.”””””””””
Then keep Joyce, and give him a pay rise yomm.
.
””””I’ve also got a few Qantas shares””””””
.
Well, as a shareholder yomm, you `should` have the nads to CLEARLY propose the solution you `actually` want to see happen, instead of your `inferred` utterances.
”””””””’time serving, chain dragging, “put the customer last” culture.””””’
if you weren`t so engaged in trollish behaviour and mealy mouthed coward-speak yomm, you just might then pay some attention to what `you`actually write.
#Culture #CompanyCulture
#Guess who is responsible for that yomm.?
#Hint Boardroom
#Wisdom for your nad-free cubicle dispensed.
””””””’Still teabagz insists on a political solution to Qantas, ie “change the legislation”.
No idea of the business decisions required. Nothing, other than endorsement of the Liberal’s policy.””””””””’
.
#This has to be your stupidest comment so far yomm.
.
.
”””political solution to Qantas, ie “change the legislation””””’
#As a shareholder, you AND ya`company can only benefit from NOT having Govt meddling in its `ownership`. This should be all `upside` for ya`free-trade` mantra, but it seems ya`not bright enough to know this. Your own stupidity prefers to `keep` it a `political-issue`.
.
.
””””No idea of the business decisions required.””””
#More aptly applied to you yomm, and Joyce so it seems.
.
.
#l notice you have failed to mention your `plan-b`, that you are so critical of Mr-Rabbit not having, even though he/Govt doesn`t own Qantas.
#You also failed to explain the Joyce `plan-b`, who, by the way, actually `should` have one.
#GrowSome #Teabag
I really must protest, there is no such thing as ‘trollish behaviour’ at Trash.
It’s always interesting to note that any company that seeks to reform a poor, self-serving culture (such as that in much of Qantas) is criticised for the effort. According to teabagz the poor culture is the fault of Joyce and the board, but teabagz is also critical of the efforts to reform the culture.
Meanwhile, he continues to post his recommendation, which is in lock step with that of the Liberal Party.
Naturally, he hasn’t bothered to follow my comments– that while ever the parliament imposes restrictions that are contrary to the commercial viability and competitive position of the company, there is an obligation to provide support, such as underwriting it. It is reasonable that this continues until the parliament imposed restriction on its commercial viability.
—————————-
Ricky, I’m aware that you know one or two LAMES at Qantas. It isn’t that each individual is lazy, but as a collective they impose huge inefficiency on the company-
• Training and aircraft type licences are the determinant of income, they then impose a training regime that requires too much time off the job
• Too many LAMES for the efficient structure of the crews, LAMES should be crew leaders, not simply hands on mechanics
• They stymie the legitimate application of skills by unlicensed tradespersons
• They resist the flexibility available under CASA licensing such as available use of aircraft approval extensions
I mean – “It is reasonable that this continues until the parliament imposed restriction on its commercial viability is lifted.”
Based on what has been happening since the 970’s it looks like Qantas is heading for foreign ownership. And there is not much we can do about it.
”””According to teabagz the poor culture is the fault of Joyce and the board,”””
Actually, l stated it quite clearly above,
”””#Culture #CompanyCulture
#Guess who is responsible for that yomm.?
#Hint Boardroom
#Wisdom for your nad-free cubicle dispensed.”””’
but for some reason you act as an apologist for Joyce/boardroom and `infer` it isn`t.
#Get some management education.
++++++++++++
”””’but teabagz is also critical of the efforts to reform the culture.”””
l don`t consider red-lining `reform`, not real, true future building reform. lt also stinks to high heaven that red-lining/mass-sackings occur only after boardrooms have done plenty of previous trough-snouting. lf the company is going so-called `bad` then those excessive salaries and bonuses, discount stock, and back-dated options have been fraudulently claimed by the boardroom, and should be recovered. Then the boardroom should be replaced, and only after the fresh boardroom minds have assessed the situation, should the workforce be hacked into. Unfortunately it doesn`t happen like that, and alway looks unjust, because it IS unjust.
”””””””””’while ever the parliament imposes restrictions that are contrary to the commercial viability and competitive position of the company, there is an obligation to provide support, such as underwriting it. It is reasonable that this continues until the parliament imposed restriction on its commercial viability.””””””
Considering you have been giving me snark yomm, you have just long-winded said the same thing l said,
l have said this/or-like-this before,
++++++++++++++
””’Qantas `should` be unfettered on ownership,
and fail/succeed under its own steam.”'(from-above)
and be `unfettered` to remove possible Govt liability for welfare,
(said that too many a time)
*++++++++++++++
”””’his recommendation, which is in lock step with that of the Liberal Party.”””’
but with this snark yomm, you `infer` that you want Mr-Rabbit to keep the Govt LIABLE to welfare extortion, by keeping Qantas ownership `hindered` by Govt.
#That makes you an idiot taxpayer.
‘Qantas is heading for foreign ownership.’
A consortium of Chinese buyers could take a large slice.
Teabagz-
*Still in lock step with the Liberal Party- ‘no to any alternative’
*Abrogate any alternative to political games
*No notion of a business plan beyond- ‘sack Joyce & sack the board’ (after their departure, what are your recommendations for business success?)
http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/who-would-want-to-buy-qantas/story-fnkgde2y-1226844965199
”””*Abrogate any alternative to political games”””
lt is neither me, nor even Mr-Rabbit that created this `political-game` yomm, your own foolish blindness, prevents you seeing Joyce trying to milk the taxpayer.
#Prise them open.
”””’no to any alternative”””’
so `alternative` is now your `code` for corporate welfare yomm,
which is what l am saying `no` to,
not the mealy-mouth nonsense you continue to infer
””(after their departure, what are your recommendations for business success?)””
as l said yomm,
but you chose to ignore it,
””’l don`t consider red-lining `reform`, not real, true future building reform. lt also stinks to high heaven that red-lining/mass-sackings occur only after boardrooms have done plenty of previous trough-snouting. lf the company is going so-called `bad` then those excessive salaries and bonuses, discount stock, and back-dated options have been fraudulently claimed by the boardroom, and should be recovered. Then the boardroom should be replaced, and only after the fresh boardroom minds have assessed the situation, should the workforce be hacked into. Unfortunately it doesn`t happen like that, and alway looks unjust, because it IS unjust.””’
#give more ca$h to Joyce, and bonu$
#sack work-force,
#unions boo,
#milk Govt welfare,
#sell unprofitable tickets,
#fail to premium the `brand`,
#stop all flights, enrage your consumers,
all dumb things Joyce has done, and you yomm, cheered
#all will fail
‘Then the boardroom should be replaced’
This is entirely a business decision, but I suggest the present board needs to be retained so that they can sack most of the workforce before the icon is sold off in chunks.
Yomm, bleating at others that are pointing out corporate stupidity does you no good,
as a Qantas shareholder, you `choose` to own it, and also choose to have the hand of Joyce in your cash, that`s `your` choice.
Also bleating at taxpayers, who don`t want the hand of Joyce in their tax-dollars, because you think milking the taxpayer will do you good, is just flat wrong.
For decades, the auto industry had its hand in the taxpayers wallet, and it did them no good, they got more lazy and more stupid at the boardroom level, and failed to innovate, produce `wanted` product, and once the robotics came in, they were a much diminished employer, so much less important as far as the workforce are concerned. lt is a good thing Mr-Rabbit has refused to throw more taxpayer hard earned into this `bottomless` pit.
Airlines, like the auto industry are intensive and complex. Mr-Rabbit is quite correct to tell Joyce to fcuk-off when it comes to corporate welfare. Why should Mr-Rabbit take the `public` heat for resisting the auto bottomless pit, only to replace it with another bottomless pit, which Qantas/airlines definitely will be.
SHANGHAI, Mar 07, 2014 (Menafn – ‘SinoCast Daily Business Beat via COMTEX) –Hainan Airlines discloses that it has not a detailed plan of investing Qantas but indeed has intentions to take over overseas airline companies.
‘Hainan Airlines has not launched talks over takeover of Qantas; whether the company will cooperate with Qantas depends on many factors. Besides air routes in Australia, Hainan Airlines took over an aviation school in Australia last year and it had bought an office building in Sydney earlier.’
Don’t blame the board.
‘Over the next three years it will shed 5,000 jobs, more than a sixth of its workforce. It will cut costs by A$2 billion, sell and delay the purchase of more than 50 aircraft and slow the expansion in Asia of Jetstar, its budget-airline offshoot. Even Mr Joyce will sacrifice 36% of his take-home salary this fiscal year.
‘Qantas has suffered most on its international routes, with the rise of cashed-up, often state-owned, airlines from Asia and the Middle East that offer Australians cheaper fares and more varied destinations. Over the past four years those competitors have increased their capacity into Australia by 46%. Leigh Clifford, Qantas’s chairman, calls it a “deluge of capacity”.
‘Two years ago Qantas formed an alliance with Emirates in a bid to cut costs on some international routes. But high jet-fuel bills and a prolonged period of a highly valued Australian currency, which deterred overseas visitors from flying to Australia, compounded its problems.’
The Economist
You can totally blame the board and joyce, nobody else pursued the failed business strategy that has brought the airline undone. Virgin’s Borghetti and Joyce have a personal rivalry, now we know that the wrong man got the CEO job at qantas .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-03/verrender-qantas-in-a-tailspin-over-aviation-battle/5293892
…But Joyce and the Qantas board, where directors with direct aviation experience are thin on the ground, have made a fundamental error.
Rather than allow Virgin to clock up losses and instead concentrate on making a profit, they took the bait, vowing to never concede the title of Australia’s largest domestic carrier. It “drew a line in the sand” at 65 per cent market share and matched Virgin’s irrational business strategy.
Qantas has thrown an extra 7.1 million seats into the air, more than triple that of its rival’s expansion. And there simply hasn’t been enough demand to soak up that extra supply. As a result, domestic prices have crashed and many planes fly half full.
You don’t need to be Einstein or have an MBA to realise that if you continue selling your product for less than it costs, then at some stage you’ll end up in trouble…
‘You can totally blame the board and joyce, nobody else pursued the failed business strategy that has brought the airline undone.’
Okay, I accept that they lacked vision and squandered money. Its still a business decision whether to sack them before or after the sale.
AO – a board doesn’t need aviation experience to run an airline. The talent pool in that industry is quite thin, and the experienced are generally experts only in talking themselves up.
======
…but it is now clear that ‘
teaslagbagz’ doesn’t just object to the Qantas board, he objects to almost all company boards.The issues he objects to are common to (almost) all company boards.
If this board and CEO departed, the new board and CEO would-
*Review the current business plan over their first 3 months
*Decide to sell some (different?) assets
*Announce plans to reduce the workforce by 4800 (rather than 5000)
*Do this over 3 and a half years (to be different)
‘The ACTU is calling on the government to issue a debt guarantee. That may get the airline out of its present predicament but is only postponing the inevitable. The airline needs to be re-nationalised. Public enterprises under capitalism are not little islands of socialism in a sea of exploitation but at least the public has some influence on their social functions and their standards.’
CPA
FFS yomm, your half-wittery knows no bounds.
++++++++++++++++
”””””””You can totally blame the board and joyce, nobody else pursued the failed business strategy that has brought the airline undone.”””””””’
#Correct Armchair. Absolutely.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Joyce / Boardroom / Qantas,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
””””’a board doesn’t need aviation experience to run an airline.””””’
That is the load of horse-shit, you choose to swallow, which is why Qantas IS where it is,
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
””””””The talent pool in that industry is quite thin,”””””’
and will now be thinner, with Joyce sacking 1000`s of lower-level staff, therefore, in the future will be NO opportunity to `promote-from-within`
++++++++++++++++++++++
BOARDROOM`s are `glorified`, over-paid employees that,
”””’are generally experts only in talking themselves up.”””
(in the vast majority of cases)
”””teh boardroom doesn`t need INDUSTRY experience to run the INDUSTRY”””’
”””’teh INDUSTRY talent pool is quite thin”””
you might like to know yomm, those spouting these 2-quotes, are largely running a `con` against their shareholders,
gina may be great at running her hole-digging operations, but do you really want her to run Qantas, Telstra, bank.?,
to NOT develop in-house talent in ANY company, is a red-flag that the boardroom is `only` managing for the short-term,
yomm. Even Dumpty is running rings around you on Qantas.
==========
(dumpty-1)”””””””’Okay, I accept that they lacked vision and squandered money. Its still a business decision whether to sack them before or after the sale.”””””’
==========
(dumpty-2)”””””””’This is entirely a business decision, but I suggest the present board needs to be retained so that they can sack most of the workforce before the icon is sold off in chunks.””””””””
==========
When Joyce arrived, Qantas was the BEST BRAND IN THE AIRLINE BUSINESS,
JOYCE FAILED to capitalize on this for shareholders, when you are the best, you target the premium end of the market, make your long-haul flights the luxury, full-service experience, to highly desirable destinations, the big-spend consumer WANTS.
lnstead, Joyce got into a discount-seat, unprofitable, price-war with `budget` no/low-margin competitors. Fcukwit.
Keep singing for Joyce, and paying him too YOMM, it is your absolute right as a stockholder, while Joyce continues to create the LEAST from the BEST.
””’sack most of the workforce before the icon is sold off””’
l reckon (dumpty-2) dumpty`s prediction is close, by the time fools such as ya`self Yomm, come to your senses, the future BUYER`s will not be paying the high-end for Qantas, but much, much closer to the LOW-end.
”””””Based on what has been happening since the *970′s it looks like Qantas is heading for foreign ownership. And there is not much we can do about it.”””’
*assuming 1970`s
oh fcuk Yomm, eve kneel is bending you over on this one.
oh fcuk Yomm, eveN kneel is bending you over on this one.
Well done kneel. _ Well done dumpty.
What would happen to Qantas if they paid everybody what they are paying the workers at Jetstar??
This has been happening since the 1970’s. And manufactures always give the same answer. It is too expensive to make things in Australia.
It is not good that our companies are foreign owned.
You seem to have lost the plot teabagz.
It seems that your plan goes not further than- ‘sack Joyce and the board and the problems will end’
Shareholders will act in their own interests, and I’d expect a change in CEO and chairman in the not too distant future.
But beyond ‘pay the CEO less’, what exactly are the changes you think will provide commercial stability at Qantas,?
The solution could be to pay Qantas workers what Jetstar and Virgin workers are getting.
I have been told there is a big difference.
yomm. You would look far less foolish if you actually read reply`s before opening ya`trap.
+++++
”””’It seems that your plan goes not further than- ‘sack Joyce and the board and the problems will end”””’
l didn`t say that.
And l wouldn`t have done that. -> March 9, 2014 4:33 am
Or that -> March 9, 2014 5:38, am in the first place.
*****
”””’Shareholders will act in their own interests, and I’d expect a change in CEO and chairman in the not too distant future.”””’
Yet you moan like an old mole coz l say it, and both armchair and dumpty did too.
+++++
””””what exactly are the changes you think will””””’
Not a stockholder. Not my problem.
Just pointing out taxpayer welfare `sugar-hits` never solve company/boardroom failure of long-term strategy. Shareholders should wise-up that boardrooms running for welfare are duds.
+++++
”””’provide commercial stability at Qantas,?”””
Stability.? Surely ya`aint that fcuking dumb.
This is the age of `flexibility`, you `should`know that.
When you erode the `worker/consumer` stability, the profit stability becomes just as eroded.
(Though there is some time lag between erosions)
‘Qantas has suffered most on its international routes, with the rise of cashed-up, often state-owned, airlines from Asia and the Middle East that offer Australians cheaper fares and more varied destinations.’
Its not a level playing field, re-nationalisation should be considered an option.
”””””””airlines from Asia and the Middle East that offer Australians cheaper fares and more varied destinations””””””””
correct dumpty, that`s the `free-trade` teabags are always demanding
””””’re-nationalisation”””””
guffaw dumpty, mr-rabbit and his zombies are in the `selling-off` business, not the `buying-up` business,
the other lot are no better
“Its not a level playing field, re-nationalisation should be considered an option.”
And what would happen if Qantas paid its workers the same as Virgin/Jetstar??
I have heard that Qantas baggage handlers are on 100K/year whereas people doing the same job at Virgin are on much less.
‘And what would happen if Qantas paid its workers the same as Virgin/Jetstar??’
There would be an uproar.
If we could just look at the big picture, a double dissolution election in winter.
‘The government is unlikely to get the changes to the Qantas Sale Act through the Senate — either the current one or the new chamber in July. Labor and the Greens oppose changes, and the Palmer United Party, which will have influential senators from July, also would not support the government.’
If Labor wins with the support of the Greens and other minor parties then we can have a reversal of sentiment.
A huge increase in the mining tax should keep our baggage handlers employed on 100k forever and a day.
Bring on a Double D it’ll be exciting politics.
‘not my problem’*
There we have it,
teaslagbagz has no idea what is required.Neil, Qantas acquired the old Impulse Airlines, and used that to create Jetstar.
Impulse was a minor regional airline and had a low cost structure.
When Virgin was formed they took great care with their recruitment, and didn’t take ‘non aligned’ types. Even though Ansett collapsed at the time, Virgin decided that it didn’t need all that aviation experience and few former Ansett employees finished up at Virgin.
Virgin does pay employees quite a lot less, but the main reason baggage handlers etc at Qantas are paid so much more is the roster rorting.
There’s an informal practice (briefly) where someone will call in sick on day shift, then someone else will be called in to replace them on overtime. The person on overtime will then have to have their evening shift off (for example). Or they’ll work part of the shift and then don’t get a 10 hour break between their shifts, so they get their next shift at overtime.
There is plenty of rorting to generate income at Qantas and the problem isn’t simply higher base rates.
you`re quite the bubble-boy yomm,
it`s a bit rich claiming somebody can`t `solve` a problem they would never get into in the first place, by somebody that doesn`t even understand the chain of events that `caused` the problems, and still doesn`t because,
they spend their efforts `inferring` what others have said, instead of working the problem
A 10 hour break (at minimum) between shifts seems quite reasonable to me.
Higher base rates are easy to target, but I don’t think they can be blamed for business failure.
If a business is going down the spout, there are far bigger problems afoot than ‘overpaid’ labour.
“If a business is going down the spout, there are far bigger problems afoot than ‘overpaid’ labour.”
Then what is your reason for most of our manufacturing leaving Australia since 1970??
Everyone i have spoken to say cost of manufacturing is too high and the main cost is labour.
Everyone you have spoken to is mono-dimensional & doesn’t understand that if enough people purchase a company’s product/services then labour cost is ignored/tolerated, then Neil.
Main cost is labour, my arse.
How about Energy costs?
How about cost of transportation?
How about having to compete with (virtually) unregulated (in terms of OH&S) overseas businesses (which may or may not get protection from their native governments)?
You fall for the sloganeering assault upon wages, Neil. More fool you.
Maybe so.
So your reason for us losing basically all our manufacturing is not enough people were purchasing our TV’s, fridges etc.
I’m not commenting on what happened 30+ years ago, Neil.
My comments relate to the last decade or so.
I’d love to be more forthcoming about my own circumstances, but the ‘rockshifter’ syndrome has taught me to not be so trusting.
Well i am old enough to remember when we made almost everything here and now it is almost all gone. That was in the 1970’s
To say wages is not a factor is insane. Qantas has 36,000 workers. If you paid them $10,000/year less that would be a saving of 36,000 x 10,000 = $360M
And from what i have seen if Qantas workers got a $10,000/year pay cut they would still be earning more than Virgin/Jetstar workers.
”””’If you paid them $10,000/year less that would be a saving of”””’ZERO, and can also cause the business to crash, l have worked at a few places that sacked everybody, to re-hire them on `casual` or `contract` or `part-time`.
They all lost out.
They ended up putting their whole workforce back on the market, a continual flow of staff leaving, low moral, failing to deliver to customers,
it only triggers a whole slew of un-needed costs on the business.
I was commenting on the fact that high wages are a problem. Toilet said they were not.
Obviously a pay cut like that would be impossible for Qantas which i guess is why they started Jetstar. Can start everybody on a new EBA with Jetstar.
Perhaps the auto industry could do the same. Bring in a new company and pay the production line workers the same rates as the component makers are getting. I think we could have a viable auto industry if that happened.
“To say wages is not a factor is insane. ”
Where did I say that it ‘wasn’t a factor’?…hmmmm.
What I said was…
-Main cost is labour, my arse.
– there are far bigger problems afoot than ‘overpaid’ labour.
-Higher base rates are easy to target, but I don’t think they can be blamed for business failure.
-You fall for the sloganeering assault upon wages, Neil. More fool you.
…you have simply continued to reinforce my final point.
“Toilet said they were not.”
Errrr…no I fucking didn’t.
I merely pointed out that they are being overstated as the MAIN problem.
Shutting up shop, paying out entitlements & rehiring staff on ‘amended’ pay & conditions is an option…but incredibly disruptive, and likely to reduce numbers of experienced willing employees below viable levels; then you have to retrain.
At least YomM tends to specify factors other than labour costs in his critiques. Flexibility is a legitimate area of alteration which may be reasonably considered.
Neil, you’ve had to much indoctrination into monochromatic partisan analysis.
Toilet
I have seen figures of $100k/year for Qantas baggage handlers. University Lecturers start on much lower salaries than that.
It is obvious to me that the companies having trouble (Holden, Toyota, Qantas) are paying wages way above people doing similar work in the same industry.
I wasn’t calling the 10 hour break between shifts a rort. This break is reasonable on OHS grounds as well as industrial.
The problem for Qantas is that there are restrictions on the use of casuals, contractors. When someone is unexpectedly absent it often means calling in an employee on overtime. That employee may then have to be rostered off their normal shift or paid for the rostered shift at overtime rates.
It is the combination of casual/contractor restrictions, the 10 hour break and a poor culture that provides the high labour cost in areas like baggage handling – it isn’t simply higher base rates
Kneel, hopefully one day you will have some `qualifications` in something, and then `actually` have a job. You may then understand how stupid many of your half-baked comments actually are.
Please make a copy your comments on your computer, so that you can read them after you have earned your qualifications and worked for a couple of years. l am certain you will be as amused by your own stupidity as l am.
There’s an informal practice (briefly) where someone will call in sick on day shift, then someone else will be called in to replace them on overtime. The person on overtime will then have to have their evening shift off (for example). Or they’ll work part of the shift and then don’t get a 10 hour break between their shifts, so they get their next shift at overtime.
There is plenty of rorting to generate income at Qantas and the problem isn’t simply higher base rates.
That sounds ridiculous to me. If the management were on top of things, that kind of rorting would never be allowed to happen.
Take nursing for instance [another heavily unionised workforce]:
*There is a mandatory 10 hr break requirement unless you specifically sign away that right and are prepared to work after an 8 hr break [with no change in pay]. Management simply will not roster anyone requiring 10 hr breaks to work an 8 hr break shift so that they get paid 2 1/2 times normal pay as overtime. They would ask other staff to swap shifts or ask a part timer to work extra for ordinary hours, no overtime rates. If nothing suitable, they would make us work one staff member down if necessary.
*Only part-time staff are asked to work overtime, where they get paid at their normal rate of pay up to a maximum of normal full time hours. A casual might be asked to work if considered necessary or agency as a last resort. No-one working full time would be offered overtime unless it’s a dire emergency & safety is compromised, even then the staff member would only work a couple of extra hours until staffing improves with another shift coming on. No-one who has worked a 12 hr shift is allowed to work overtime due to fatigue.
I realise that you, unlike Neil, are across the detail, YomM.
I don’t necessarily take your comments as an attack upon wage rates & I agree that ‘reasonable flexibility’ is an issue.
As I said, I would like to discuss my own employment conditions (high[er than any wages Neil is squealing about] wages), which involve a high base rate but do afford flexibility & a cooperative, mutually productive relationship between the highly Unionised workforce & (I think) sensibly accommodating Management.
If we go under, and that’s a likelihood as time marches on, then it won’t be due to the high base rate. There are a myriad of related & external factors at play; unfortunately, I’m bound by common sense & a confidentiality agreement, from publishing them.
” If the management were on top of things, that kind of rorting would never be allowed to happen.”
Amen, to that.
AO- Qantas is full of income maximising rorts, but there is always a significant risk of industrial reaction in response. The problem for Qantas is-
*There is never a convenient time for industrial action
*If Qantas implements change and suffers industrial action, there is always a huge reaction from union/left sympathisers who don’t even bother to understand what the dispute is about (eg. LAME & TWU dispute 15 months ago)
‘…in response to challenging/changing them‘
OK Toilet. According to you excess wages is not a major problem and is not the main reason that since 1970 our manufacturing has left.
But maybe your industry is different.
And i know lots of people not getting anywhere near the money Toyota, Holden, Qantas workers are getting. University lecturers start on about 85K/year. But can go much higher. So why get a PhD. People should go from school and become a Qantas baggage handler.
And i do think high hourly pay rates is a problem for Qantas but not for Virgin and Jetstar.
The award is there to protect workers from exploitation.
The bean counters are well aware of the awards and push staff right up to what is allowable. Industrial action can only be taken if staff are being asked to work against their award conditions.
Staff are not in charge of the rosters because the management have to control the costs and work to the cheapest possible roster/budget.
In nursing, any staff shift swaps have to be approved by supervisors/management, believe me, anything that costs them money is not approved, if a manager approved that type of rostering, they would very swiftly be answering to their next in command or HRM.
That is why any roster rorting is a failure of management.
HD, manufacturing (for example) can stockpile, and can plan (to some degree) for industrial action. Airlines can’t stockpile seats, and capacity planning is designed to mitigate against slow periods.
There is no time that it can sustain a period of reforming/changing income generating rorts.
Much of Qantas has a public utility culture in a highly competitive industry. I don’t blame management for seeking reform, even though much of the left hold this against them.
If everyone was working to an agreed award and management were reasonable and not trying to exploit them [under staffing, unpaid over time, threats of job losses if they don’t agree to non-award conditions etc ] there would be no industrial action, or threats of it, no-one would be complaining.
#shift roster
#culture
are boardroom/management responsibilities, and according to yomm, Joyce has done a fine job, better give him a pay-rise and bonu$
and as according to yomm, Joyce has done this fine job, then there is no need for Joyce to be demanding welfare from taxypayer/govt/mr-rabbit
(once ownership is unfettered)
It may be a failure of management, but it isn’t as if Joyce has been timid in seeking change.
Should he have broadened the Nov 12 dispute?
In nursing there is not the same culture- *Nurses don’t seem to have the rorting/income maximising
*There is acceptance that many ANF members prefer casual work and (I think) public hospitals maintain a nurse bank of reliable people.
In Qantas, there is not the same tolerance for flexibility, and if Joyce had a crack at getting it, I have no doubt that many in the left would side with those resisting the change.
“And i know lots of people not getting anywhere near the money Toyota, Holden, Qantas workers are getting.”
So do I…so what?
You don’t do their job & you have no experience in what they do.
I get paid more than all of them, what do you think about that?
You are in no position to judge the validity of other people’s wages; not credibly at least. Feel free to have your opinion, but it is misinformed by those who you share political affinity with.
” University lecturers start on about 85K/year. But can go much higher. So why get a PhD. People should go from school and become a Qantas baggage handler.”
People do what they do for their own reasons. Big deal, talk about conflated envy.
“According to you excess wages is not a major problem and is not the main reason that since 1970 our manufacturing has left.”
Once again… 🙄 …I did NOT claim anything about the 70’s. Given that I was born halfway through, that seems a bit pointless.
Nor do I think that the problems facing industry have remained a constant for the last several decades.
I think restrictive work practices, not high wages, are more of a hobble to industry.
“It may be a failure of management”
It most probably is.
I know someone who became a manager of a company. He was told when he arrived that he had to ring up the Union rep on the factory floor if he wanted to come down and inspect the factory. The Union had the previous manager locked up in his office.
The new manager just barged down and inspected the factory whenever he felt like it without ringing up the Union rep.
I am sure Qantas management like Toyota, Holden and many others have surrendered to the Unions.
There is acceptance that many ANF members prefer casual work and (I think) public hospitals maintain a nurse bank of reliable people.
They only prefer casual or part time because they are worked to exhaustion, they choose it as a way of guaranteeing enough days off to recuperate from what is a stressful and demanding job and management are inflexible with rostering. The flexibility that management want is only ever a one-way street, they offer no flexibility to benefit the staff, even though they advertise ‘family friendly’ conditions [false advertising IMO].
staff that prefer to work their own nominated shifts and don’t like the inflexibility of a roster might prefer to work in pool, but they are not many as there are not many permanents working pool. New staff on contracts might work in pool but after a while they expect to get a permanent job somewhere, or they will leave.
In nursing there is not the same culture- *Nurses don’t seem to have the rorting/income maximising
I’m sure that some would if they could get away with it, but they don’t get the chance, due to tight control of budget and rosters by management.
Like I said, who is running the joint?
There is no capacity or will for industrial action if the award conditions are met, workers don’t jeopardise their income and jobs like that.
I am making no comparisons between myself & a QANTAS employee, TomM.
I accept much of what you say.
I don’t perceive your comments as an attack on my wages, unlike the misinformed assimilation of Coalition talking points regurgitated here by others.
At least you flesh out your position.
I tend to see things the same way as KL, with regard to the industrial environment…& I don’t think that all industries are synonymous.
”””””resisting the change.”””””’
you can always squeal when the poor slob earning fifteen bucks an hour gets a couple of hours overtime on double-time,
or the `resisting-change` when the blue-collar bozo loses his holiday-pay/full-time-status to be `casualized`,
but l notice you yomm, and boardrooms are equally `resisting-change` when it effects the fat-cats, go learn about Gerry Harvey, and what he is paid, and what he says about `most` management/boardroom talent,
l look forward to you having the nads to report what you learned
” The flexibility that management want is only ever a one-way street, they offer no flexibility to benefit the staff, even though they advertise ‘family friendly’ conditions [false advertising IMO].”
This also resonates with my own experience in several different employment scenarios.
“There is no capacity or will for industrial action if the award conditions are met, workers don’t jeopardise their income and jobs like that.”
So does that.
The inferences that well paid workers are out to extort & ransom themselves out of employment is a total fabrication. The government is currently doing a great job of creating an atmosphere where that type of sentiment has gained traction.
“You are in no position to judge the validity of other people’s wages; not credibly at least.”
Why not??
Why should Qantas workers get much higher wages than people at Virgin and Jetstar??
Why should Holden/ Toyota workers get more money than the components workers who supply the parts??
Well it is now goodbuy Holden/Toyota and you do not care.
You do realise don’t you tomm, that with EB, the awards are an agreement between employer/employer lawyers and union/workers? these are meant to be in good faith and not breached. The way you talk, it is as if the workers are somehow extorting something from qantas that they are not entitled to. You want them to do whatever asked of them by qantas when they dream up new cost cutting measures, despite them having an existing industrial agreement in place.
“Well it is now goodbuy(SIC) Holden/Toyota and you do not care.”
What a load of bullshit!
What a senseless remark…”I don’t care”…FFS! Put words in my mouth.
I’d have thought that, based upon my comments, it was obvious that I care enough to dispute the meme being advanced to legitimise an attack upon wages.
Why should Qantas workers get much higher wages than people at Virgin and Jetstar??
Why should Holden/ Toyota workers get more money than the components workers who supply the parts??
Why should mine workers and finance workers get much higher wages than other workers. Why should finance workers get higher wages than a nurse, cop or fireman?
Why, why, why??? 🙄
Qantas is full of labour/union restrictions, I suppose they could take them on. That would probably mean shutting the airline for a couple of months.
Cabin crew and pilots aren’t paid too much on the base. The problems are-
*The cost of putting them up in 5 star hotels
*The allowances during stop overs- based on having 3 x3 course meals in the 5 star hotel. Most international crew live off their allowances and can save their salary.
*Remaining limitations on language skills
*Seniority based rostering
LAMEs (maintenance people)-
*Highly trained and paid technicians are hands on, rather used for quality oversight and supervision
*Pay rate determined by training, therefore training is a function of industrial relations rather than operational requirements
*Baggage handlers- see previous.
Now which of the above restrictions should the board use to ground the airline?
“Why not??”
Because, clearly, you have never walked in those shoes.
You seem to be advocating that all levels of monetary reward for employment should be equal.
You have not been privy to any of the agreements or their bargaining periods & are context deficient on account of that.
”””’with EB, the awards are an agreement between employer/employer lawyers and union/workers? these are meant to be in good faith and not breached.”””
both TB and l have said this before #repeatedly
unfortunately our corporate Lock-steppers continue to ignore `inconvenient-legal-documents`
.
.
”””””’The way you talk, it is as if the workers are somehow extorting something from qantas that they are not entitled to. You want them to do whatever asked of them by qantas when they dream up new cost cutting measures, despite them having an existing industrial agreement in place.””””””
also been said before, willfully ignored by yomm, who would immediately squeal if it was the worker/union side that was/wanting to breach said contract,
just because crap management/boardroom has junked the business,
does not default to `everything-goes-the-boardrooms-way` and fcuk the eba/award
Why, why, why???
Good question.
But now Holden/Toyota/Ford are gone.
Do you care??
‘Do you care??’
No.
egg
We are now going to have to import all our cars. This may cost several hundreds of million dollars/year.
That is lots of money flowing out of the country.
Holden/Toyota could have survived if they paid their workers wages like similar workers were being paid.
But Holden/Toyota workers were too greedy.
@9.39 ` 😆 ` 😆 ` 😆
gmholden `would` have survived if it built `product` consumers `wanted`
gmholden didn`t
‘That is lots of money flowing out of the country.’
Its important that we have a balance of trade, automobile manufacturing has had its day in Oz and now we must think outside the square.
In the days when our dollar was sixty something to the American, it remained a viable option, but now that we are permanently close to parity its a no brainer.
High wages are not the root cause of the malaise, the high Australian dollar is.
“High wages are not the root cause of the malaise, the high Australian dollar is.”
I would have thought a high dollar means cheaper imports and therefore cheaper cars made in Australia since a lot of components are imported and the car assembled in Australia.
It would not help with exports.
A high dollar does mean cheaper imports and exports become dearer. Fortunately we have a quarry to keep us going until we can manufacture something people are prepared to pay a premium for, like clean unadulterated food.
This is already happening and the potential market is huge.
Geez that’s a bit socialist Kneel, that’s the pinnacle of the teabag Universe “the
enslavedfree market”So in your universe, workers are free to negotiate their wages and conditions down with their employers 🙄
Ricky my boyo has returned and making commercials at Tafe, building a portfolio. For my part, I’m saving for a RED with the intention of buying into a VSB as an executive producer.
Well Qantas has high wages and is going bankrupt. Unlike the people who post here i do think high wages are a problem.
And by high i mean significantly higher than people doing similar jobs in a similar industry.
Good luck to the workers if they can get it but goodbye Qantas, Holden Toyota.
Neil, Qantas and other companies could succeed with high wages if employees adopted the most efficient work practices and union demarcations.
I’d like someone to explain why the cabin crew and pilots have to stay at the grand (expensive) hotels. The crew of many of the competitors stay at tourist class, near the stopover airport.
Why their travelling allowances are based on having a cooked breakfast everyday at the hotel, ditto lunch and dinner? No one eats that much.
Why is the LAME training system driven by the demand that everyone in aircraft maintenance becomes the equivalent of a 3 star general, and why the restrictions remain on maximising aircraft certification privileges available even under Australia’s tight regulatory regime?
Lower base rates may help, but the stupid restrictive practices are strangling the airline.
Maybe if you pay people such high wages they expect to be treated like Kings.
This is getting sad. We need to make some things here and it would be nice to maintain Australian ownership of our companies.
‘…it would be nice to maintain Australian ownership of our companies.’
Not necessary, we are entering a different world and need to adapt. If Hainan buys a big slice of Qantas it will be good news all round.
Yes but Egg doesn’t Qantas pays dividends on its shares?? If it is foreign owned and it makes a good profit a lot of money will leave the country.
Ok thats great..Reds are great (well awesome) But the 4k Blackmagic and Sony is out and can shoot at a staggering 240FPS are the shit right now. The Blackmagic is way cheaper and comes with Davinci resolve software.
Melbourne Ban All india Radio..shot at 240 FPS on a Sony with a Zeiss lens.
Kneel.. 1: Peanuts monkeys 2: Horse flogged to death..move on 🙄
Profit and dividend have not been in the same sentence as Qantas for some time. Kneel I’ll make it simpler for you, turn the pyramid upside down and look at the pointy end of the pyramid with those simplistic fiberal fogged blame goggles 🙄
Ta, that’s impressive. I’ll follow it up.
‘If it is foreign owned and it makes a good profit a lot of money will leave the country.’
If we take a hypothetical like Hainan Airways, non-state owned and safe to fly, it would undoubtedly find its way onto the ASX if they bought a large slice of Qantas.
I’m just making shit up, but that’s my impression…. Walrus might disagree.
The only way to deal with all those pampered over-paid Lames and Techs is for Joyce to move those operations to Asia,
Vietnam and Malaysia look good.
Fine, but there you go defaulting to the Liberal Party position, again.
No, l just checked their pamphlet,
its not the teabags position.
Egg Big difference in Specs but you can buy a complete Zeiss prime lens kit for $12k
29 grand for the body…
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-highend/resource.solutions.bbsccms-assets-show-highend-F55.shtml?PID=I:35mm_F55:F55%23/f55t5_7%23/f55t5_7
3 grand for the body…
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k
Cheap Lame’s… are you guys insane? How bout a cheap heart surgeon… What are you guys on? Do you guys understand what Licences means? As in they sign off on the sky hotel hurting through the sky @ 500 mph over your house. 🙄
‘What are you guys on?’
Don’t you worry about that.
‘Do you guys understand what Licences means?’
Enlighten me and I’ll pass it on to boyo.
We can`t go throwing money around just because some of these people actually do something, we have a boardroom to feed.
Licenses.? Just because some plebs spent a lot of time and effort to get a `license` to extort decent wages out of innocent corporations.?
That`s not a `real` investment.
You don’t get cheap LAMEs Ricky.
The ones that work in Vietnam or Malaysia or the USA are paid similar rates to Australian ones. Vietnam & Malaysia generally use expatriates.
The problem isn’t that they are paid too much, it’s that they’re used as hands on mechanics here. Overseas their skill is more highly regarded and they hold supervisory or quality control positions. Here they’re just overpaid and glorified tradesmen.
The (lengthy) LAME training is driven by income expectations rather than by sensible use of a valued resource.
‘Do you guys understand what Licences means?’
Had my wires crossed there.
Yep thats correct Tom my mate has worked in both places on contract. He has actually made heaps since leaving Qantas. He’s now with Turbo Mecca doing Helicopters.
The Licenced part means they are accredited to sign off on the work and assume the responsibility, hence the big pay. As Tom points out most of the underlings are not. Its a long haul to Lame from tradie. Like Telecom, they run their own training schools which made the standard world leading. They used to service all the other airlines major checks, which can only be carried out by specially accredited facilities.
Qantas was so much more than just a carrier back in the day, now its a shell of its former self.
Sadly there would be more money in maintenance than flying, which has the Flying Wombat fucked through short sighted beancounting. They also sold off lots of spares about 10 years ago. My mate sold a spare motor to John Travolta… 🙂
Ricky, The (lengthy) LAME training is driven by income expectations of overpaid and glorified tradesmen, rather than the `selected-pets` that the management prefer.
How dare those plebs `better` themselves.
Thanx again Ricky, my boyo thinks Black Magic is the go.
Egg you are more than welcome. We were early adopters and have the 2K version and it fantastic. Pick up some nice fast, wide Zeiss Glass. When you’re ready drop me a line and I will clue you up on the cheapest and best accessories with links to great workflow ect.. You can put together a serious broadcast/cine rig sub 15k.
lncome expectations do NOT belong to our glorified tradesmen that sometimes `do` things and they should be grateful they are allowed to to participate in the magnificent adventure which is `our` company.
lncome expectations belong to our boardroom ONLY.
Sounds good Ricky, I’ll do that.
So, teabagz, the ALP is the “teabags party” since they’re the ones advocating all the corporate welfare?
Your Federal teabags haven`t matched your State-based teabags on corporate welfare, l`m sure bludging`Coke/spc is happy with the $22million welfare it extorted
Could you explain which you think is the party of “teabags”? (when it seems that it is the ALP that is continually demanding taxpayer funded corporate bailouts and welfare)
returning to this,
(dumpty-1)”””””””’Okay, I accept that they lacked vision and squandered money. Its still a business decision whether to sack them before or after the sale.”””””’
after thinking about this some more dumpty,
l reckon China will love to buy Qantas for the landing/route/access rights, not label/brand or physical aircraft. The sooner the `ownership` bullshit is unfettered, the sooner it can go on the auction block. l now think you are much, much closer than l gave`ya credit for. Well Done Dumpty.
to this,
””””””’So, teabagz, the ALP is the “teabags party” since they’re the ones advocating all the corporate welfare?””””””
and this,
””””””””Could you explain which you think is the party of “teabags”? (when it seems that it is the ALP that is continually demanding taxpayer funded corporate bailouts and welfare)”””””””
is straw-clutching by you at best YOMM, and also shows how little wisdom or memory is retained within ya`cubicle.
So soon, you have already forgotten, #GoWatermelon #GoClive
To argue howards reheated zombies, and their `palin-esque` mythology are not teabags is purely stupid, but that`s never stopped ya`before. Good Luck with that.
To argue that the other lot are any better as a `whole`, with their identical, totally different non-choices on offer, shows them at best as teabag-lite.
Both `teams` of teabags don`t show `any` difference at all to those NOT pre-welded to their cheer-clubs.
e.g UNDER BOTH TEAMS
#Teh-Gays, remained as 4th-class citizens.
#Junking `our`jobs with `free-trade`dumping.
#Are `tough` on the weak, and `weak` on the rich.
#Bastardising Boat-people. / haneef
#abandoning/`declaring-guilty` Aust citizens habib hicks assange
#wasted truck-loads of taxpayer hard-earned$, pursuing these `failed` and impoverished policy`s
‘l now think you are much, much closer than l gave`ya credit for.’
Faint praise indeed.
‘l reckon China will love to buy Qantas for the landing/route/access rights, not label/brand or physical aircraft.’
Agreed, but we mustn’t sell to China Southern Airlines or China Eastern Airlines which are majority government owned.
With old blokes hanging around the cabin, what hope does Qantas have against this type of competition?
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/budget-carrier-skymark-airlines-faces-criticism-for-flight-attendants-miniskirts/story-e6frfq80-1226852031172
””””””’we mustn’t sell to China Southern Airlines or China Eastern
Airlines”””””’
Why Dumpty.?
.
.
”””government owned”””
So what, Dumpty.?