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You will Pay to be Told that the Budget is Good for You.

May 27, 2014

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The federal government is considering an “information campaign” but not an “advertising campaign” to explain its unpopular budget.

“We are not planning an advertising campaign. We do have a responsibility to ensure people across the community who are impacted by changes in the budget are aware of how those changes will impact on them and how those changes will not impact them,” said finance minister Mathias Cormann.

“We will continue to do what needs to be done to ensure that information is provided to people in the most efficient, cost effective and well targeted way possible, to ensure people are aware of the budget changes that impact on them and how, as appropriate.”

Before the election, the Coalition castigated Labor for taxpayer-funded advertising campaigns to promote government initiatives.

The Little Book of Big Labor Waste was produced shortly before the election and listed as “waste” $8.5m spent in 2012-13 advertising the Schoolkids Bonus because it was an automatic payment.

According to the little book, because eligible recipients didn’t have to do anything to receive the payment there was no justification in spending taxpayers’ money informing them about it.

In November last year, the government issued “short-term interim guidelines” for advertising campaigns which state campaign materials must not: mention the party in government by name; directly attack or scorn the views, policies or actions of others such as the policies and opinions of opposition parties or groups; include party political slogans or images; be designed to influence public support for a political party, a candidate for election, a minister or an MP; or refer or link to the websites of politicians or political parties.

When Labor embarked on taxpayer-funded advertising campaigns in 2010, the then opposition leader Tony Abbott said the government was “looting the Treasury because this prime minister cannot do the job ordinarily expected of a prime minister – that is, to explain, justify and defend the policies of the government”.

And when the Gillard government spent taxpayer funds advertising its carbon pricing scheme, Abbott said: “If the Labor party wants to advertise, the Labor party should find the money and the Labor party should spend the money. Taxpayers should not be ripped off to fund political propaganda.”

Greens senator Rachel Siewert said “the most vulnerable Australians already know very well how they will be impacted by this budget. They know that they are being condemned to live in poverty, they don’t need Government advertising to tell them.”

 

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414 Comments leave one →
  1. May 27, 2014 2:14 pm

    “This is the Budget Australia needs Now”

    PM Abbott says – “this is the first honest budget in 6 years.”

  2. May 27, 2014 2:22 pm

    Tony Abbott just said the economy was fundamentally strong.

    #budgetemergency?

  3. Tom R permalink
    May 27, 2014 3:39 pm

    The federal government is considering an “information campaign” but not an “advertising campaign” to explain its unpopular budget.

    Is that for their benefit or ours?

  4. May 27, 2014 4:01 pm

    Huge increase in disapproval for Abbott’s so-called “Leadership attributes” in latest Essential Survey…

    http://essentialvision.com.au/leader-attributes-tony-abbott-6

  5. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 27, 2014 5:51 pm

    “#budgetemergency?

    Absolutely. The economy is doing OK at the moment but the budget is trashed.

    Another 3 or 4 years of Wayne Swan deficits will see us losing our AAA rating.

    We are already paying $12B/year in interest on the debt that you lot produced from 2008-2013. If we lose our triple A the interest bill will increase. Furthermore debt is increasing at an alarming rate.

  6. TB Queensland permalink
    May 27, 2014 6:08 pm

    South Australian Liberal MP Martin Hamilton-Smith has announced a shock defection to the state’s Labor government, in a move the former Liberal state leader says puts the people of South Australia first.

    Some Libs have got the message … either that or Toillette has been rocking roofs!

    Or …. rats leaving a sinking ship!

  7. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 27, 2014 6:16 pm

    “Some Libs have got the message

    What has this got to do with the topic??

    We are now paying $12B/year on interest because of your vote in 2007.

    We are now paying $1B/year more on housing asylum seekers than in 2007.

    Rather than giving your ignorant opinion you should be apologising for the damage your vote has caused.

  8. TB Queensland permalink
    May 27, 2014 6:21 pm

    What has this got to do with the topic??

    FMD! Do you actually KNOW what the topic is!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The privileges committee declined Mr Burke’s request for an inquiry, telling Labor that it required a reference from the Speaker.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/bishop-defends-her-impartiality/story-e6frfku9-1226933274884

    Titter …

    Problem is of course the ALP has calmed down … and is being sidetracked … I always worried about maintain the anger against the budget … where is it!

  9. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 27, 2014 6:40 pm

    “FMD! Do you actually KNOW what the topic is!”

    As far as i am concerned the topic is the budget.

    We are now paying $12B/year on interest on the debt your heroes racked up from 2008-2013.

    Why don’t you apoligise for once for your stupid comments/decisions???

  10. May 27, 2014 6:49 pm

    I see Squeal is in fine form 🙄

    Does this fucktard actually ever say anything but the same shit over multiple topics?

    “today we will talk about an information campaign from the Directorate of propaganda”
    Leftie, commo, deficit, interest HNCR camp, economic refo’s, wayne swan…didle didle didle dumb…sorry what were we talking about again?

  11. egg permalink
    May 27, 2014 7:00 pm

    ‘Is that for their benefit or ours?’

    Not sure, but it will be cheaper to run.

  12. egg permalink
    May 27, 2014 7:11 pm

    “Taxpayers should not be ripped off to fund political propaganda.”

    The Coalition has the support of the big end of town.

  13. Tom R permalink
    May 27, 2014 7:13 pm

    We are now paying $12B/year on interest because of your vote in 2007.

    Thank god for that. If the libs were in, we’d be paying shitloads more, cos, as they stated at teh time, their stimulus would have been only marginally cheaper, but far more poorly targetted. With the recession we WOULD have had (and still might now) and no ability for employed people (thanks to Labors stimulus) to pay it off, it would have just kept growing, instead of being on track to be paid off as Labors stimulus borrowing was.

    Does this fucktard actually ever say anything but the same shit over multiple topics?

    No. Which makes answering pretty easy but highly repetitive 😉

  14. Tom R permalink
    May 27, 2014 7:17 pm

    I see on the news tonight that nothing happened in Parliament today ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/may/27/first-dog-bronwyn?CMP=soc_568

  15. TB Queensland permalink
    May 27, 2014 7:19 pm

    Not sure, but it will be cheaper to run.

    Hypocrisy becomes you too, egg ..

    Does this fucktard actually ever say anything but the same shit over multiple topics?

    No. Which makes answering pretty easy but highly repetitive 😉

  16. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 27, 2014 7:21 pm

    I recall that each job the stimulus created cost over $200,000.

    That isn’t exactly efficient.

  17. egg permalink
    May 27, 2014 7:26 pm

    ‘Hypocrisy becomes you too, egg ..’

    So you are saying taxpayer propaganda under Jools is better than Abbott’s self funded propaganda?

  18. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 27, 2014 7:50 pm

    “So you are saying taxpayer propaganda”

    It has not started yet. Let us wait and see what happens.

    I am not totally against taxpayer funded propaganda.

    If govt policy passes through parliament it needs to be advertised. If the govt changes Superannuation laws of course it needs to be advertised.

    If the govt uses taxpayers money to try and change opinion that is a different matter.

  19. May 27, 2014 7:54 pm

    “I am not totally against taxpayer funded propaganda.”

    ROFLMAO! That’s comedy gold Neil!

    Well done! Best laugh I’ve had this week! 🙂

  20. May 27, 2014 7:57 pm

    No. Which makes answering pretty easy but highly repetitive 😉

    Ground squeal day

    I recall that each job the stimulus created cost over $200,000.
    That isn’t exactly efficient.

    Spose it depends on the retention rate over time subtracted by the cost of welfare.. The GFC (the little black hole in the fiberal mantra) was not a normal occurrence. I guess and program that created retentive employment is a good thing as opposed to wearing a green shirt or pretending people under 30 don’t actually exist.

    So you are saying taxpayer propaganda under Jools is better than Abbott’s self funded propaganda?

    No just pointing out the heinous hypocrisy that defines these foolish fiberal fucktards

  21. May 27, 2014 7:59 pm

    Well done! Best laugh I’ve had this week! 🙂

    Yeah put that on a fridge magnet 🙂

  22. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 27, 2014 7:59 pm

    REB

    If the govt changes laws of course they have to advertise.

    If the govt change Superannuation, Workplace relation laws, whatever, they have to advertise the changes. I don’t think i have said anything different.

    But using taxpayers money before these laws have come into effect is a different matter.

    So we have to wait and see what Abbot does.

    I think you will find that Rudd/Gillard was using taxpayers money to change opinion before legislation had passed through parliament.

  23. May 27, 2014 8:09 pm

    “If the govt changes laws of course they have to advertise”

    It’s the gift that keeps on giving!

    You should be doing standup Neil…

    or are you just practising on us….?

  24. May 27, 2014 8:16 pm

    I think you will find that Rudd/Gillard was using taxpayers money to change opinion before legislation had passed through parliament.

    THINK? .. well thats impossible because everyone knows its not possible.

    Notice how when you actually drag Squeal “on topic” Squealy has selective memory and forgets all about Honest John’s junk mail factory…

    substantiate don’t Fink

  25. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 27, 2014 8:18 pm

    Get stuffed REb

    You are a fool.

    I have never disagreed with some govt advertising.

    If the govt change Superannuation laws or workplace relations laws of course they have to advertise. There is also recruitment for the military and jobs advertisement.

    Rudd/Gillard however used taxpayers money to advertise for example the mining tax before it went through parliament. After passing through parliament, no problems!!! Advertise away. But using taxpayers money to change peoples opinion is a different story.

    Let us wait and see what Abbot does.

  26. May 27, 2014 8:19 pm

    It’s the gift that keeps on giving!

    Init 🙂 Should use egg as his straight man..

  27. egg permalink
    May 27, 2014 8:22 pm

    Neil is a straight man and the clowns here are supposed to come up with funny lines to his comments. Mostly you don’t appreciate his talents and inanely abuse him.

    ‘Propaganda is information that is not impartial and used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or using loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented.’

    wiki

  28. May 27, 2014 8:27 pm

    Rather than giving your ignorant opinion you should be apologising for the damage your vote has caused….. Let us wait and see what Abbot does.

    At least we can spell the name of the candidate we voted for ….

    I mean lets get fair dinkum….How are you supposed to take someone seriously when they can’t even spell the blokes name they keep prosecuting as the saviour of Australia? 🙂

    Hey Squeals if you are unsure of the spelling here is an article I wrote about him, it may educate you somewhat…
    http://theaimn.com/2014/05/27/the-romance-of-the-retro-pm/

  29. May 27, 2014 8:31 pm

    TB; Take no notice of Neil’s rants about paying out ‘billions in interest’ This is one of the Neo-libs pernicious myths designed to frighten small children who won’t eat their greens.

    The following is fact;

    When governments spend more than they collect, it creates what is known as a ‘deficit’ NOT A DEBT! and certainly not a debt in the same manner as household or business debt.

    This money for wages, pensions, infrastructure, etc.. finishes up in the ‘reserve accounts’ of the banking system.

    This usually creates ‘excess reserves’, that is more money than the bank(s) need to cover their ‘reserve requirements’.

    The banks then usually try to lay off this excess to other banks in order to earn interest.

    If however, the inter-bank market is flush, the bank rate – or ‘overnight cash rate’ is in danger of falling to zero.

    So the RBA or Treasury ‘mops up’ the excess by issuing bonds to control the rate and maintain it at the amount ‘pegged’ by the RBA.

    The interest rate on the bonds is created ex-nihilo (out of nothing).
    The corporate sector love bonds because of the guaranteed dividends that they pay.

    So, rather than the government having to borrow before it can spend, in actuality is spends and then borrows back from itself but purely for the purpose of controlling the interest rate.

    It could choose not to. If it really had to borrow from the private sector to fund its spending then interest rates would be through the roof.

    The following link will verify the veracity of this.

    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=1229

  30. May 27, 2014 8:33 pm

    Mostly you don’t appreciate his talents

    What like cutting and pasting wiki 🙂

  31. Click Bait permalink
    May 27, 2014 8:38 pm

    Looking for clicks, Ricky? I, for one, won’t be going over to Catching Up’s blog. Or is it Min’s now?

    Anyhow …

  32. egg permalink
    May 27, 2014 8:39 pm

    Ricky I would like your critique on Real Humans.

  33. TB Queensland permalink
    May 27, 2014 8:56 pm

    TB; Take no notice of Neil’s rants about paying out ‘billions in interest’

    Thanks, ee, never have … nice explanation BTW …

    I’m a big fan of fixed interest in my super …

    Sounds like you may be familiar with, The Creature From Jekyll Island, too …

    As RP and TR discussed earlier …

    Does this fucktard actually ever say anything but the same shit over multiple topics?

    No. Which makes answering pretty easy but highly repetitive 😉

  34. TB Queensland permalink
    May 27, 2014 8:57 pm

    Ricky I would like your critique on Real Humans.

    Dj’ya know any?

  35. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 27, 2014 9:00 pm

    What is wrong with govt advertising??

    Obviously govts have to advertise. Not to many problems with Howards GST advertising. A new law has to be advertised but not over the top.

    Rudd/Gillard used govt money to advertise govt programs before they had passed through parliament eg mining tax, i think also health reforms. That is a different matter.

    Of course Rudd/Gillard also did lots of legitimate govt advertising. Military jobs, health, education, cancer etc

    Let us wait and see what Abbott does before we make a comment.

  36. TB Queensland permalink
    May 27, 2014 9:06 pm

    The Abbott government doesn’t advertise everything!

    THE doctor who brought to light claims of substandard medical care for asylum-seekers on Christmas Island — including detainees’ medicines being thrown away — has slammed authorities for what he calls a failure to act.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/johnpaul-sanggaran-tells-unsw-treatment-of-asylum-seekers-is-shameful-to-australia/story-fncynjr2-1226933656614

  37. egg permalink
    May 27, 2014 9:06 pm

    ‘Dj’ya know any?’

    Its Swedish science fiction.

  38. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 27, 2014 9:14 pm

    “Thanks, ee, never have”

    Too bad like most lefties you do not have a conscience.

    We did not have an interest bill on govt debt in 2007.

    We are now paying $12B/year on interest on the debt you racked up and not much to show in return.

    Must be nice to go through life without a conscience.

  39. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 27, 2014 9:52 pm

    Looking for clicks, Ricky? I, for one, won’t be going over to Catching Up’s blog. Or is it Min’s now?

    No need to pop in, they just ban anyone from GT.

  40. May 27, 2014 9:55 pm

    Looking for clicks, Ricky? I, for one, won’t be going over to Catching Up’s blog. Or is it Min’s now?

    AIMN and quite frankly I don’t really give a flying fuck about clicks. (unless people are buying my music of course or it means money) . Like my music and film, I really dont spent any brainpower caring who reads my articles…it’s not my blog. I write every day and I relax by ..writing 🙂 I don’t have the time nor inclination to run a blog again unless its for money..

    I do know AIMN have a fair sized localised instantaneous audience, including lots of trolls. Where there is controversy there is electricity. 🙂

    Ricky I would like your critique on Real Humans.

    Haven’t got to it at the moment..still finishing Fargo which is awesome… it looks pretty cool though.. Is it any good?

  41. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 27, 2014 9:56 pm

    “The Abbott government doesn’t advertise everything!”

    Do you read the links you provide??

    http://www.news.com.au/national/johnpaul-sanggaran-tells-unsw-treatment-of-asylum-seekers-is-shameful-to-australia/story-fncynjr2-1226933656614

    John-Paul Sanggaran last year helped prepare a 92-page letter, co-signed by 14 other doctors who had worked on Christmas Island, which highlighted concerns about standards of care on the island

    And who was in power “last year” And what time “last year” was this report prepared??

    Even if it was prepared after the 2013 election surely you are not blaming Abbott so soon after the election for the mess you created?? And i suspect “last year” means before the 2013 election.

    Must be nice to go through life without a conscience.

  42. May 27, 2014 10:02 pm

    Dj’ya know any?
    Rolf.. its a laugh a minute in here tonight 🙂

    Clicks…

  43. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 27, 2014 10:05 pm

    I do know AIMN have a fair sized localised instantaneous audience, including lots of trolls. Where there is controversy there is electricity.

    Really? My experience is that they ban non aligned dissent. They only appreciate partisan challenge.

  44. May 27, 2014 10:05 pm

    “I do know AIMN have a fair sized localised instantaneous audience”

    Yes, and I understand the Editor in Chief regularly has to issue apologies for just making litigious shit up about people…

    But at least it’s “Independent”

    guffaw….

  45. May 27, 2014 10:06 pm

    “Must be nice to go through life without a conscience.”

    Indeed Neil…

    Tell us what it’s like….

  46. May 27, 2014 10:07 pm

    My mistake, I thought you said “conscious”…

  47. May 27, 2014 10:08 pm

    or both could apply I guess…

    WTF would I know…

  48. May 27, 2014 10:35 pm

    TB that stuff was leaked in the Guardian in December
    Here
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/24/morrison-christmas-island-asylum-seeker-health

    Still trying to find the leaked document, which is pretty shocking. I actually had a PDF of it in Jan.

    Actually the great irony in Australian politics at the moment is the bipartisan national disgrace of refugees.. “unified cuntery complete with outsourced gulags in despot countries bribed bt aid money” just hideous.

    Brandis was on 702 Sydney this morning saying its not our problem it PNG’s problem.. Then we have Morrison telling us how luck people are being shipped off to Cambodia, except the Cambodians know fucl all about it….Shambolic…Australia hang your head in shame…

    What can I say…I am equally as hard on all politicians, I will drop my “labor reform” article very soon

  49. May 27, 2014 10:39 pm

    Here is the radio interview
    http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2014/s4012892.htm

  50. May 27, 2014 11:18 pm

    ””””””””””””’The federal government is considering an “information campaign” but not an “advertising campaign” to explain its unpopular budget.

    “We are not planning an advertising campaign.”””””””””””””

    Another fine catch reb.

    Seems the teabags announcable didn`t include the $price of so-called `information-campaign` either.

    Now let`s watch `our` teabags claim that mr-rabbit/zombies didn`t just `re-classify` advertising to information.

  51. May 28, 2014 1:14 am

    An unexpected, real world, source raved about Fargo to me.

    I’ve recently watched the first episode. It was certainly offbeat, violent & intriguing enough to make me braineat the rest of it.

    I can only speak for myself, but Neil has become semi-recently prone to individually naming contributors in his monocular, ostrichfaeceinvestigating diatribes.

    When he comments as such, he richly deserves ” inane abuse”. That’s not to say that some of his criticisms of his fetish-side of politics aren’t entirely warranted…just that they should be sensibly interpreted as what they are…partisan cheerleading/ignorant-one-eyed-political affiliation, with a dash of misconceived personal attribution soiled into the wanky broth.

    * NB: AIMN liksdabagz…#facebookfrotteurism #airsandfancies #congalineoflikemindedpoliticaltools

  52. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:22 am

    Actually the great irony in Australian politics at the moment is the bipartisan national disgrace of refugees

    I AGREE!

    The main reason the libs have gone so far down the abyss of promoting human misery is because labor are plumbing that same abyss with them

    Grow some balls Labor. Easy in opposition, Then see if they remain in place should you ever get back in.

    Mind you, the disgraceful and hypocritical way both the media and the libs have acted on the differing sides of the election has not made anything easy for Labor but, as someone once said, life wasn’t meant to be easy.

  53. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:34 am

    I recall that each job the stimulus created cost over $200,000.

    According to which rwdb site?

    But, when “measuring” the “efficiency”, was the dependents of said saved job measured? The ongoing impact of local or not so local businesses to said saved job measured? The savings and gain in Government revenue from said saved job measured?

    Perhaps you missed this link put up recently, that puts said saved jobs into a more global perspective? And, not forgetting, the libs “solution” was for almost the same quantity stimulus, but not the same quality.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2014/05/22/crime-and-youth-suicide-set-to-soar-under-abbotts-regime/#comment-58572

    I wonder how the libs “stimulus” will compare?

    THE nation’s jobs market will ­become increasingly reliant on taxpayers during the next five years, as mining and manufacturing shed staff to make way for an army of health, education and welfare workers.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/public-purse-to-fund-jobs-growth/story-fn59noo3-1226932398105#

    The story forgot to mention the growth in “advertising agency” jobs it’ll be creating 😉

  54. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:01 am

    ‘Is it any good?’

    Very refreshing and the fella that wrote Spooks is going to do an English version.

  55. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:12 am

    ‘The main reason the libs have gone so far down the abyss of promoting human misery is because labor are plumbing that same abyss with them’

    That would be Realpolitik and they have little choice if the Party wants to remain relevant in a democracy. We got the impression from Bob Carr that the majority of asylum seekers are illegal guest workers, so we took that onboard.

  56. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:14 am

    Saw the news reporting this last night. Apparently, it’s all because of the “Indian summer” 😯

    Weekly sales from the BDO Australian Retail Sales Index suggests sales through May have deteriorated across retail – down 6 per cent month-on-month – with fashion hit harder, down 7 per cent m/m.

    “This data is consistent with recent trade feedback suggesting a material decline in sales across the fashion industry since the federal budget,” write the analysts.

    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/05/bdo-may-retail-smashed/

    The media are flailing around, looking for any other reason, whereas, pre-election, it was pretty much all Gillards fault. Nice to have ’em on your side.

  57. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:18 am

    We got the impression from Bob Carr that the majority of asylum seekers are illegal guest workers, so we took that onboard.

    fckn watch when you say “we”. Many of “us” aren’t included in your interpretation of “we”. Many of “us” also read what Carr said from his speeches, not the media version. So “we” might have a different “impression”.

    And they all have a lot of fckn choice. They don’t have to follow the most narrow, redknecked ill-informed path that you appear to fancy, going on your comment.

  58. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:21 am

    TR I worked in ladies fashion for a few years and found that late starting winters had a negative impact on the bottom line.

  59. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:23 am

    So, that explains the “fashion” side, what about the rest of retail?

    And 7 percent??

  60. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:25 am

    Oh right, leaving out the royal we, a majority of Australians got the impression from hate media propaganda that a lot of asylum seekers looked quite prosperous.

  61. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:25 am

    Or this snippet from the report

    “We would also note negative newsflow around the budget is likely to continue for some time, increasing the likelihood that weaker sentiment continues into FY15.”

    Maybe retail just needs a bit of Government advertising to get them going? Either that, or don’t smash the incomes of those with the least disposable income.

    Is this going to be Recession we didn’t have to have?

  62. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:26 am

    The Budget has also had a negative impact across the board and small business is not impressed.

  63. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:29 am

    ‘Is this going to be Recession we didn’t have to have?’

    Not sure, might leave that for the Finance Editor who should be in the office around 9am.

  64. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:29 am

    a majority of Australians got the impression from hate media propaganda that a lot of asylum seekers looked quite prosperous.

    That might be right, that doesn’t make Labors reaction to it right.

    Use the principals that they applied to the Australian worker. We know they have them, they just abandon them when asylum seeker raises it ugly head. howard descended our country into this racist little shithole it has become. Labor should work to rectify that. We know the libs or the media won’t

  65. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:30 am

    the Finance Editor

    If he isn’t still bitching over “Retirement Age” (in the colloquial)

  66. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:32 am

    and small business is not impressed.

    Personally, it serves the dumb fcks right. They fell for the snake oil, even though “we” (well, some) told them the oil was dodgy.

    I feel for the few who saw it, but who now must suffer for the stoopidity of the many

  67. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:35 am

    More about the weather

    Consumer confidence fell a further 1.1% to 99.3 in the week ending 25 May. Confidence is now down 15% over the past five weeks when various Budget policies first made news headlines.

    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/05/roy-morgananz-consumer-confidence-hit-again/

    It must be because of the opposition talking down the economy…oh wait, it is now the government talking it down.

    Morons.

  68. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:36 am

    ‘Labor should work to rectify that. We know the libs or the media won’t’

    Its not a good look, but they have little choice. Abbott stopped the boats and potential asylum seekers in Indonesia packed their bags and went home.

    labor’s best bet is to embrace UNHCR resettlement and return to bipartisanship on this issue.

  69. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:40 am

    Abbott stopped the boats

    Then why are they buying more, and paying Cambodia to take more?

  70. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:42 am

    Chicken little exposed

    A senior Australian Federal Police officer has said the agency did not advise Prime Minister Tony Abbott to cancel a visit to a Victorian university amid widespread protest against the Coalition’s budget last week.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/senior-afp-officer-raises-questions-about-security-advice-given-to-tony-abbott-on-university-visit-20140527-391fh.html#ixzz32xFRUcla

  71. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:42 am

    ‘Personally, it serves the dumb fcks right.’

    Nobody saw it coming, there was nothing about austerity in Abbott’s election campaign. I’ll do a straw poll over the next few days to gauge the sentiment among small business on the Budget and get back.

  72. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:44 am

    ‘Then why are they buying more, and paying Cambodia to take more?’

    Could you enlarge upon this?

  73. May 28, 2014 7:54 am

    Surely only a true narcissist would do something like this..

    “Harris began evidence in an animated way, chuckling as he described his early days as an entertainer and even sung a verse of his song Jake the Peg to remind the jury of his fame and popularity.”

    http://www.news.com.au/world/rolf-harris-tells-court-that-he-is-innocent-of-indecent-assault-charges-admits-legalage-affairs/story-fndir2ev-1226933748436

  74. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:15 am

    I’m a big fan of Jensen.

    ‘A Liberal MP has blasted the Abbott government’s defence and science policies – including the budget centrepiece of a $20 billion medical research fund.

    ‘In a speech delivered in Parliament on Tuesday night, West Australian MP Dennis Jensen described the government’s science policies as “foolish” and incoherent.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/liberal-mp-dennis-jensen-fires-broadside-at-his-governments-medical-research-fund-20140528-392rr.html#ixzz32xNmRYO2

  75. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:17 am

    Nobody saw it coming

    Surely you jest? Or is just more inanity from a bi-ped with a keyboard

  76. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:19 am

    That’s bizarre, considering it was his extra leg that got him where he is.

  77. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:48 am

    ‘Surely you jest?’

    Yeah, I remember him distinctly sayin’ that he’s goin’ to cut government spending in a humungous fashion.

  78. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:55 am

    Yeah, I remember him distinctly sayin

    I’m going with the bi-ped proposition then

  79. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:38 am

    ** chuckle **

    At least you know how to utilise a straight man.

  80. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:42 am

    Maybe they can use this in their “information” campaign?

    The government and some of their friends in the conservative columns in some newspapers have been saying that Labor is being negative and that somehow we are not doing what the government wants to do. Let me tell you what negative is. Negative is a new GP tax. Positive is supporting Medicare. I will tell you what negative is. It is making sure that $30 billion comes out of schools in Australia. Positive is what Labor would do and fund our schools according to need so that every child can get a great education. Negative is doubling the cost of degrees, it is increasing the rate of interest of repayments and it is discouraging the dreams of normal people to send their kids to university. Positive is making sure that universities remain in the reach of ordinary Australians and are not just the preserve of the very privileged. Negative is sentencing Australians under 30 who are unemployed to six months without any form of income. That is cost shifting the burden of Australian society and finding employment from government to the shoulders and the backs of the unemployed and their families. Positive is helping Australians find work. Negative is pushing pensioners by decreasing the rate of their indexation. How dare the Treasurer of Australia say that there is no cut to pensions in this country. The facts speak for themselves: $400 million plus is being treated as a cut to the cost of pensions in 2017 in the forward estimates of this government’s budget.

    http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/chamber/hansardr/52343173-f805-4dee-a657-0b931f78bc41/toc_pdf/House%20of%20Representatives_2014_05_27_2477.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf

  81. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:43 am

    “”This money for wages, pensions, infrastructure, etc.. finishes up in the ‘reserve accounts’ of the banking system.””

    I must say Edward’s explanation of all things economic is quite enlightening.

    Especially this bit

    “”This money for wages, pensions, infrastructure, etc.. finishes up in the ‘reserve accounts’ of the banking system.””

    According to Edward this creates “”excess reserves””………………………so I can conclude that pensioners are overpaid……………………as are public servants.

    Or I could conclude that Edward’s analysis of the economic system is one of the most convoluted and contradictory ramblings of crap I have heard since I last dropped in over at the Café.

  82. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:47 am

    “”If he isn’t still bitching over “Retirement Age” “”

    Not at all……………………I left that bit to you. “Retirement Age”is just a state of mind determined very much by the state of your Finances.

    Afterall much to Toilet’s great disappointment even Justin Bieber recently retired.

    Have you worked out the difference between Preservation Age and Aged Pension eligibility yet ?

  83. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:48 am

    Maybe they can get Bernard Keane to advertise for them?

  84. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:50 am

    ‘Dj’ya know any?’

    Its Swedish science fiction.

    I know … and I also should know sarc* whistles over your head …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    So, that explains the “fashion” side, what about the rest of retail?

    And 7 percent??

    Yeah, TR, my thoughts exactly … its always amused me how the retailers go into a flat spin if sales are down by 1% and try to explain the blip as a major problem … gotta get that 10% growth pa …

    ============================

    The Budget has also had a negative impact across the board and small business is not impressed.

    Not many folk are impressed …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Surely only a true narcissist would do something like this..

    Or some who was demented, as opposed to having dementia, he also sang a bit of Jake the Peg … appropriate? Sick …

    I also heard he had given up teaching in Perth to become an entertainer … now if I was the prosecutor ….

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Dennis Jensen described the government’s science policies as “foolish” and incoherent.’

    In fact ALL of their “burblings” are “foolish” …

  85. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:52 am

    even Justin Bieber recently retired.

    Which was obviously what the debate was about.

    Have you worked out the difference between Preservation Age and Aged Pension eligibility yet ?

    I always knew it. I wanted you to explain your take, so I could work out why you were always bringing Preservation Age into a discussion over the Government raising the Retirement Age. I found out. Unicorn 😉

  86. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:58 am

    This line from your Link kinda proves that even some journos cant work out the difference either……….

    “However the most provocative suggestion contained in the report is to raise the retirement age to 70 – saving taxpayers $78,000 in pension payments to every retiree””

  87. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:00 am

    So if you have too many assets to qualify for the pension then its financially impossible for you to actually retire ever…………….?

    Work that one out……………….LOL

  88. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:03 am

    “Maybe they can get Bernard Keane to advertise for them?

    I wish you lefties would make up your mind.

    Some lefties say the Costello tax cuts caused revenue problems in the budget.

    Some lefties (Keane, Koukoulas) say Costello taxed too much and anybody could run surplus budgets if they taxed like Costello.

    I guess it depends which side of the bed lefties get out that determines their opinion on any given day.

  89. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:03 am

    ‘and I also should know sarc* whistles over your head …’

    I didn’t see any smiley face, so from this distance I couldn’t read the tone of your voice.

  90. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:24 am

    “”Maybe they can get Bernard Keane to advertise for them?””

    Meaning if you want to spend BIG but not raise taxes……………………just borrow.

    Does Bernard have a similar graph for that………………including the off budget NBN

  91. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:40 am

    Work that one out……………….LOL

    It is unsurprising that you refuse to.

    I wish you lefties would make up your mind.

    I’m not sure which “lefty” was claiming that Labor were the higher taxing Government, or which lefty was claiming that “We don’t have a revenue problem”?

    What was you point again nil…oh. right 😉

  92. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:45 am

    “”It is unsurprising that you refuse to.””

    WTF are you jabbering on about now ?

    There was never any confusion as far as I was concerned. In fact Reb summed it up pretty well in his post anyway.

    I really don’t understand what the f**k you are carrying on about now………..

  93. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:47 am

    Didn’t tabot say something about “we will know their values”

    Obviously, one is that political witch hunts are more import than child abuse to them

    FUCKERS!!

    The Abbott government redirected funds from the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse to meet a third of the cost of its royal commission into the former government’s home insulation scheme.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/child-sexual-abuse-inquiry-funding-shifted-to-insulation-scheme-probe-20140527-392hl.html#ixzz32xzHzcw3

  94. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:49 am

    I really don’t understand what the f**k you are carrying on about now

    Then you understand my problem yesterday when you were rabbitting on about Preservation Age in a discussion about raising the pension age. Something about Unicorns I think 😉

  95. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:49 am

    Chicken little exposed

    makes sense, why would they say they can’t protect the PM from a few students waving placards? imo, the feds like a bit of biffo, they would’ve relished cracking some heads.
    abbott really is gutless, you didn’t see gillard backing down from political duties.

  96. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:51 am

    those news peeps are so eager to mention DEATHS toiletcantankerousnightsoil they are now blaming it on the inquiry??

    The pink batts inquiry, which led to four deaths

    😯

  97. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:53 am

    they can’t protect the PM from a few students waving placards?

    But ao, they could have been armed with sandwiches loaded with deli meats!

  98. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:56 am

    What do Lovo, TomR, Catching Up, and Mobius have in common with that constantly apologising hypoCONdriac F**kwit ex PS from Canberra ?

    Answer: They appear to be the only ones inhabiting the Café these daze

    LOL

  99. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:58 am

  100. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:00 am

    What do Lovo, TomR, Catching Up, and Mobius have in common

    They’re not chasing Unicorns?

  101. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:11 am

    Q: what does GT have in common with obsession and repetitious mendacity these days?

    A: neil and egg

    Then you understand my problem yesterday when you were rabbitting on about Preservation Age…

    I wondered about that too, thought what has that got to do with it? Another in walrus’ armoury of scatter shots?

    I do believe that the preservation age should be increased in line with the retirement age, with the same applying to pollies.

  102. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:14 am

    with the same applying to pollies. AAAAUUUUUGHGGHH!!

  103. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:15 am

    We knew it all along Walrus.

    I was observing them prancing just yesterday 😉

  104. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:15 am

    “”Another in walrus’ armoury of scatter shots?””

    Really………………….?

    Well you better count Reb in that too as he explained it to TomR(idiculous) very well in the end.

    I had better things to do………………………………like invoicing my clients

  105. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:17 am

    Some lefties say the Costello tax cuts caused revenue problems in the budget.

    er, I think that’s the point … no-one wants to pay tax anymore (or get given back immediately) …

    I paid tax for all the things the X Gen and Y Gen enjoyed growing up, my parents enjoyed in retirement … and for my future retirement …

    Now the government’s got no money, they’ve sold off money earning assets to their mates …

    People still don’t pay enough taxes and you want the taxes I paid for my pension … so I pay ALL my life and you don’t …

    And the Abbott government has the temerity to say that they don’t want the younger generation left with my debt … how fkn stupid is that?

    As for that Dickhead® Andrews on Lateline last night … just another arrogant fkn puppet head spouting articulate ignorance over and over again … contradictory and hypocritical

    This is the same wanker who had an innocent doctor deported because his brother was involved in the London bombings … another catlik with no conscience … certainly no intelligence …

  106. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:18 am

    Didn’t tabot say something about “we will know their values”
    Obviously, one is that political witch hunts are more import than child abuse to them

    they hated the RC into child abuse, so many religious nuts in our own parliament and so much state protection given to the churches. Shorten is a big catholic and he was also against the RC. They are all running a protection racket for religion in this country. Pell has run to the safety of rome, hope we never see him in the country again.

    Think of the money that could be saved immediately from the budget if we stopped funding religion and church.

  107. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:21 am

    they hated the RC into child abuse

    Didn’t tabot once vouch for a paedophile?

  108. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:21 am

    ‘A: neil and egg’

    Neil deserves a back room too, a cone of silence.

  109. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:27 am

  110. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:27 am

    a cone of silence.

    I AGREE that it appears that both of you have had a cone of some sort.

  111. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:31 am

    “I paid tax for all the things the X Gen and Y Gen enjoyed growing up, my parents enjoyed in retirement … and for my future retirement …”

    TB I do wish you would stop this nonsensical argument.

    It’s almost as though you believe that the government squirrelled your taxes away into some savings account at the RBA just waiting for the day you reached pension age.

    Plainly it does not work that way

    That money has been spent………………………….mainly by pissing it up against the wall/roof in all manner of unproductive endeavours like Pink Batts and School Halls.

    If it had been spent on Toll Roads producing an income to fund your pension you might have an argument.

    So for Dogsake get over it man……………

    Or are you waiting for an idle school hall to produce your pension income ?

  112. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:33 am

    AND!

    Why can’t the ALP stay focussed for just a couple of weeks … the target should be the BUDGET not Bronnies soiree in the office … or a few pamphlets of Liberal Party Budget BS – people already know …

    … the ALP should be pounding the government over and over again with questions on detail … bunch of political amateurs …

    The Opposition seems to have run out of puff … no ideas, no creativeness, no alternatives, no facts, scenarios of hardship, no understanding of ongoing consequences of many of these seemingly unconnected decisions that will simply compound …

    Andrews said last night that many doctors surgeries had closed their books and wouldn’t accept new patients … that indicates pretty obviously that we need more doctors … but their answer is to target the patient visits … he was also corrected by Emma Alberici on his assertion that drs visits had climbed from four a year to 11 … in fact its 5.6 … maybe people are more informed about seeing a doctor regularly … and because of prevention/health management programs …

  113. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:36 am

    in all manner of unproductive endeavours like Pink Batts and School Halls.

    The Unicorns have moved back in!

  114. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:38 am

    I AGREE that it appears that both of you have had a cone of some sort.

    and give us the sphenopalatine ganglioneuralgia 😆

  115. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:41 am

    the ALP should be pounding the government over and over again with questions on detail

    Did you watch QT yesterday TB?

    I put a link up to the Hansard before. More happened than just bronnie trying to shut down Labors attack. And, in light of the budget emergency, using the speakers office for fundraising is a pertinent question. But, most of qt was devoted to the budget.

    http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/chamber/hansardr/52343173-f805-4dee-a657-0b931f78bc41/toc_pdf/House%20of%20Representatives_2014_05_27_2477.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf

  116. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:42 am

    Thank god for google AO 😉

    Now I know what a couple of words I carnt pronounce mean 🙂

  117. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:46 am

    “Andrews said last night that many doctors surgeries had closed their books and wouldn’t accept new patients …””

    Dont know about other locales but its very common in Sydney Metro

  118. Laura Palmer permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:49 am

    Clive Palmer: “News Ltd should be called Cartoon Ltd. @australian claims its unbiased but many of its writers just @rupertmurdoch puppets @jkalbrechtsen”

    No, Clive, The Australian does not claim to be unbiased …

    ‘Editor-in-chief Chris Mitchell has said that the editorial and op-ed pages of the newspaper are centre-right … The Australian opined that “Greens leader Bob Brown has accused The Australian of trying to wreck the alliance between the Greens and Labor. We wear Senator Brown’s criticism with pride. We believe he and his Green colleagues are hypocrites; that they are bad for the nation; and that they should be destroyed at the ballot box.”‘

    MURDOCH!

  119. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:56 am

    https://twitter.com/JoshBavas/status/471468531037380608

  120. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:57 am

    No, Clive, The Australian does not claim to be unbiased …

    True Tosy, they gave up that pretense a few years ago. Which makes you wonder why they bother with this. They obviously ignore it’s contents.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/news-limited-professional-conduct-policy/story-e6frerl6-1226092970029

  121. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:59 am

    Morrison as PM 😯

    Operation Sovereign Parliament.

    No comment, it is an on-seat mater? 😆

  122. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:07 pm

  123. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:07 pm

    ‘Editorial employees and contributors should be open-minded, fair and respect the truth.’

    And they do that with a slant, like Fairfax journalists lean toward the Green/Left Alliance.

  124. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:10 pm

    Plainly it does not work that way

    That money has been spent

    My point exactly … but DON’T think that my generation is beholden to the younger generations for a well earned pension … at $17,000 pa for an individual … my kids will tell you we earned it … but there is a lot who believe the BS …

    If its perpetrated then it has to be countered … just ’cause you know others don’t …

    I stand by the LOW income tax comment!

    And someone has to stand up for the poor buggers who have nothing but the pension to survive on … and certainly not the resources to fight back!

    Howard shot the country in the foot by weaning everyone OFF income tax expectations … particularly the wealthy …

    … 20% across the board is the simple answer … no claims, no concessions just 20% gone each pay day … and a financial year that begins 1st January and ends 31st December …

    … but that would put a lot of people out of the “money shuffle” business and force them into productive work … as I’m sure you know … but that’s not a big problem … according to Kevin Andrews they are short of fruit pickers in Tassie … 🙂

    BTW … I usually know what I write and what reactions to expect … (I confess I am surprised at replies sometimes) …

  125. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:11 pm

    Does “Idiot” go far enough in describing egg?

  126. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:15 pm

    Did you watch QT yesterday TB?

    No, just sound bites from our professional meedja, TR … so thanks for the heads up …

    I simply keep running out of time …

  127. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:16 pm

    So you think Fairfax is not left wing?

  128. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:31 pm

    Howard shot the country in the foot by weaning everyone OFF income tax expectations

    Howard shot the country in the foot by weaning everyone ONTO welfare. We forgot that welfare wasn’t a tax churn, it was to support those less well off. Not to maintain those already well off. PPL case in point.

    Now, these bastards are taking it away from those who most need it, and are even expanding its previous excessive use to swell the pockets of those least needing it

  129. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:32 pm

    “So you think Fairfax is not left wing?””

    LOL

    Yeah……he’ll probably next try and convince you that and the Guardian is run by Cory Bernardi…………..LOL

    His thought process moves in every contortion possible like a kite in the wind

  130. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:33 pm

    So you think Fairfax is not left wing?

    there’s a difference between evidence in biased reporting and when reporting does not conform to your own personal bias eg climate change.

  131. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:34 pm

    “… 20% across the board is the simple answer …””

    Yes a GST of that magnitude would sort out a few things

  132. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:37 pm

    “My insider at The Melbourne Club says discontent amongst LNP powerbrokers is at critical levels “”

    What the dumb waiter.????????…………………………………or ” unnamed tomato sauces””

  133. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:37 pm

    Hint

    Not being far right does not indicate that you are left wing.

  134. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:40 pm

    The media appear quite content to sit back and not ruminate over leadership tensions.

    That is so last Parliament

  135. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:52 pm

    This just goes to show how f**king pathetic you Lefties and that filthy slime Gillard were in your pathetic attempts to brand Abbott a misogynist when this sort of shit happens yet your silence is absolutely f**king deafening.

    This is misogyny you idiots……………..

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/when-women-refuse-tumblr-highlights-violent-crimes-against-women-who-refuse-a-mans-advances/story-fnjwmwrh-1226934244778

  136. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:54 pm

  137. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:57 pm

    I think most people would prefer honest, competent government. I doubt whether it’s left/right orientation isn’t a particular concern.

    No one’s turned on Howard or Rudd or Gillard or Abbott because of their political complexion. It has all been about keeping trust with the electorate.

  138. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 28, 2014 12:59 pm

    Some lefties say the Costello tax cuts caused revenue problems in the budget.

    er, I think that’s the point … no-one wants to pay tax anymore (or get given back immediately) … ”

    No, you miss the point. What lefties say has changed. They used to say that the Costello tax cuts caused revenue problems for the budget.

    Now they say something different. Look at the chart at TomR’s post at 9.48AM. Keane is saying that the Howard/Costello govt was the highest taxing govt for a long time may ever with a high tax/GDP ratio. Look at the blue lines compared to the red lines.

    Basically what lefties say depends on the time of the day.

  139. Walrus permalink
    May 28, 2014 1:20 pm

    Hey TB

    Good News for ya……..!

    I think I found your old pot of tax money and your pension funds…………………………………..oh dear…………………………Seems the ALP spent it.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/labors-370-million-g20up-budget-allocation-used-by-fat-cats-for-junkets/story-fni0xqrc-1226933790939

  140. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 1:31 pm

    Look at the chart at TomR’s post at 9.48AM.

    And did you consider at all what I said at 10:40 am?

    Obviously not.

    This is misogyny you idiots

    So only EXTREME forms is misogyny??

    the Daily Terror strikes again. We will await the real story in coming days

  141. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 1:59 pm

    ‘there’s a difference between evidence in biased reporting and when reporting does not conform to your own personal bias’

    Both sides are seeking bums on seats as a first priority and the electorate is evenly divided, so the organisations slant the news to maintain their share of the market.

    Journalism is a trade and the workers are encouraged to follow editorial direction.

  142. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 2:05 pm

    This is misogyny you idiots……………..

    misogyny and patriarchy go hand in hand and abbott is a great defender and representative of all society’s patriarchal institutions especially the misogyny of religion.

    abbott encouraged, supported and participated in sexist attacks by an entire nation upon a female PM.

  143. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 2:16 pm

    Yes a GST of that magnitude would sort out a few things

    Like I said … I usually get the reaction I’m expecting …

    … your quick response only confirms that you – like most high earners – would prefer to maintain your high level disposable income* and shift the tax burden to those who are least able to pay …

    … that means you can save and invest in your future (not someone else’s) at the expense of those in need … while the poor get poorer and you can then call them out for not looking after their own future …

    And BTW, its the Feds who are crying poor … the GST goes to the states … but you knew that too …

    *… GST affects the poor and those on fixed incomes more than anyone else … (and you would/should know that …

  144. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 2:19 pm

    here’s that “let’s have a blokes question” along with “no new taxes”

  145. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 2:23 pm

    This is misogyny you idiots……………..

    I know who the idiot is … physical assault is only part of misogyny …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Journalism is a trade and the workers are encouraged to follow editorial direction

    Its certainly no longer a profession and its certainly not a trade … I know plumbers who can write better invoices than the sad lot we call journos today …

  146. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 2:25 pm

    Mmmmm … Wally and egg deliberately shifting the topic … Tony & The Tonedeaf fans …

  147. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 2:25 pm

  148. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 3:00 pm

    What misogyny?

  149. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 3:01 pm

    At least the Lady can laugh at the sexist fool

  150. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 3:04 pm

  151. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 3:12 pm

    Not watching it, but it appears business as usual

  152. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 28, 2014 3:25 pm

    I don’t think comments like ‘an attack of the vapours’ is offensive.

    There’s plenty of commentary by ALP/Greens types about ‘testosterone fuelled behaviour’.

    People need to lighten up a little about vapours and winking. Plibersek’s response made a joke at Abbott’s expense, that’s about how it should be treated.

  153. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 4:00 pm

    Yes, just laugh of sexist barbs.

    Do you have one of those “testosterone ” quotes handy yomm for my future reference?

  154. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 4:00 pm

    I don’t think comments like ‘an attack of the vapours’ is offensive.
    There’s plenty of commentary by ALP/Greens types about ‘testosterone fuelled behaviour’.

    tomm, aggressive macho male behaviour is a gender based insult along the same lines as women being characterised as hysterical, fainting, over emotional and irrational?

    And why are these gender based insults continually coming from the ‘minister for women’?

  155. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 4:11 pm

    ‘Mmmmm … Wally and egg deliberately shifting the topic … Tony & The Tonedeaf fans …’

    The post is about the information campaign, privately funded, but without the use of newspaper ads. We are sort of on topic.

  156. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 4:21 pm

    🙂

    😦

  157. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 4:24 pm

    People need to lighten up a little about vapours and winking.

    They usually do once someone snots them! Then they STFU or are very careful about what and how they do and/or say it …

    While this last lot of Abbott’s may sound a bit mild … and taken out of context … its the history of Abbott’s words and actions that paint a complete picture …

    … ya can’t see the picture until all the jigsaw is put together … while some people may be slow and haven’t found the corner pieces yet (see above) …

    … most of us have actually completed the picture …

    … after the budget many more have got all the sides done and most of the middle …

    … wait till most of the people have completed the Abbott puzzle … broken up and back in the box …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Won’t comment on the “cartoon”, KL, you know my personal history and feelings by now …

  158. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 4:24 pm

    And I REALLY hope this isn’t true?

    Anyone able to confirm?

  159. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 28, 2014 4:28 pm

    I think Plibersek’s response provides more kudos than if she’s complained about misogyny.

    I don’t particularly care if people want to get offended by ‘attack of the vapours’. Parliamentary barbs don’t get me too excited.

    (I was once -kind of- rebuked at a meeting for suggesting indigenous people were ‘disadvantaged’. I should have said ‘dispossessed’, naturally I accepted the public correction, but it seemed a little misdirected. I think we need to be a little better at tolerating words sometimes.)

  160. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 5:01 pm

    words are powerful weapons [and dog whistles].

    especially from people who are professional wordsmiths.

  161. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 5:12 pm

    I think Plibersek’s response provides more kudos than if she’s complained about misogyny.

    Gillard laughed it off for years. It was a combination of disrespecting her recently passed away father coupled with the gross hypocrisy of a party of misogynists complaining about one that I think set her off that day. It had obviously been building for a long time.

  162. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 5:15 pm

    I was once -kind of- rebuked at a meeting for suggesting indigenous people were ‘disadvantaged’.

    I have no problems with that either, ToM … aboriginals ARE disadvantaged … but not quite the same as Abbott he is collecting garbage all the way …

    My old man was a charmer … and a misogynist … in many ways!

    Maybe I see too much of my old man in Abbott … dad was boxer in the Navy … mmmm

    Abbott still lives mentally – (just couldn’t use the word “intellectually”) – in the 1950’s … so obvious to me who grew up in the 50’s 60’s …

  163. May 28, 2014 5:16 pm

    Accuse the “Minister for Woman’s affairs” of being a misogynist… fuck that is piss funny 🙂 Next they will be calling him a sycophant, neocon, fundamentalist, born to rule, catlic lying, wing-nut, hypocrite, ideologist.. oh wait hang on …. 🙄

    New matilda tweet on Jones… best eva, ROTFPML.. 🙂 I mean his low hanging old fruit is a perpetual comedic fucktadery gift

  164. TB Queensland permalink
    May 28, 2014 5:17 pm

    QUEENSLANDER!

    GO MAROONS!

    100th State of Orange … s-o-o-o-o-o long ago since I went to the first one …

  165. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 5:23 pm

    The post is about the information campaign, privately funded, but without the use of newspaper ads. We are sort of on topic.

    I haven’t seen any mention of private funding, can you show where that comes from?

  166. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 5:46 pm

    ‘…can you show where that comes from?’

    I made it up.

    How are they going to pump out propaganda without advertising? Bolter and the shock jocks can’t do it alone, so if the big end of town doesn’t contribute to advertising on TV and the papers, then I have no idea what they have in mind.

  167. May 28, 2014 6:11 pm

    ””’according to Kevin Andrews they are short of fruit pickers in Tassie””’

    then it seems tassie is not part of the backpacker trail, if andrews is correct, the other states will have the same `shortage` too, if/when backpacker/visa numbers decline, this is one of the industries that has chased aust workers out of, well and truly,

    (pick jobs pay equals about 3-4 bucks per hour)

  168. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:13 pm

    ‘There’s a sensible reason why there won’t be a glossy taxpayer-funded advertising campaign setting out the positives of this year’s budget.

    ‘In the words of politicians and car salesmen everywhere, it would be like putting lipstick on a pig. Or lipstick on a “stinking carcass” if you believe the description of the budget attributed to a senior anonymous Liberal.’

    Fleur Anderson / Fin Review

  169. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:20 pm

    Should we import agricultural guest workers to replace backpackers?

  170. Sir Walrus of the Kingdom of the 8 Percent Dividend Yield permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:21 pm

    “”……….Wally and egg deliberately shifting the topic…………..””

    Not really

    You Ratbag Lefties just seem to blindly refuse to accept if you are travelling along towards a very dangerous financial position you’ll end up there unless you change direction.

    Fine let your kids drown in debt created by YOUR generation.

    I don’t give a flkying f**k if you don’t.

    They are your kids afterall

    And that’s right the Budget wont affect me except for the fuel excise. But why should it ?

    What handout did I receive during the “”big piss up”” of 2007 to 2013 ?

    I received nothing so Uncle Joe could hardly take anything back could he ?

    Like I said…………..they are your kids and if you don’t give a flying f**k about the future finances of this joint and its effect on them then why should I ?

  171. Sir Walrus of the Kingdom of the 8 Percent Dividend Yield permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:23 pm

    “(pick jobs pay equals about 3-4 bucks per hour)”

    Gotta Link for that ?

  172. May 28, 2014 6:23 pm

    [tomr]””””””””””Howard shot the country in the foot by weaning everyone ONTO welfare.

    We forgot that welfare wasn’t a tax churn,

    it was to support those less well off. Not to maintain those already well off.

    PPL case in point.””””””””””

    fully agree tomr, if the north-shore parasites were not hiding their wealth in tax-havens and trusts, but paid the full-whack of tax, that those at the bottom were stuck paying, they `may` have some claim to being `entitled`. But they spent a life-time short-changing the govt revenue, so they DON`T have a claim of being entitled.

  173. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:25 pm

    Should we import agricultural guest workers to replace backpackers?</I.

    Should we import bloggers who don't continually make shit up?

    Speaking of which, I've been googling tabot and testosterone. Funnily, all I can find is tabot using the term lol.

    But yomm'l come to me rescue, won't ya' mate? 😯

  174. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:26 pm

    I made it up.

    typical, now why do you want to lie and fudge?

    …How are they going to pump out propaganda without advertising? Bolter and the shock jocks can’t do it alone, so if the big end of town doesn’t contribute to advertising on TV and the papers, then I have no idea what they have in mind…

    Is that the best you can do?

    How do they always do it. They couldn’t possibly think of taxpayer funding, a liberal party campaign blitz masquerading as public information re policy?

    Heckling is loud, obnoxious and far more effective than a hashtag:

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/heckling-is-loud-obnoxious-and-far-more-effective-than-a-hashtag-20140527-zrphl.html#ixzz32zlwWx00

  175. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:55 pm

    ‘Should we import bloggers who don’t continually make shit up?’

    That’s funny, it’s political science and some people get paid handsomely for being ahead of the pack.

    There has been a push on for years to allow agricultural guest workers into the country for a season.

    ‘The seasonal work force in agriculture is currently made up of itinerant farm workers, family members, local casual workers, students, “grey nomads”, backpackers on the Working Holiday Maker Scheme and undocumented workers, including refugees on bridging visas who do not have work rights.

    ‘There are indications that a large part of Victoria’s fruit crop is picked by undocumented workers. A 2006 survey conducted by Swinburne University’s Peter Mares in the Swan Hill/Mildura region revealed that one in four farmers admitted to using undocumented workers. The Australian Workers Union has reported cases of undocumented workers being paid as little as $3 per hour.’

    Green Left Weekly

  176. May 28, 2014 6:58 pm

    [tom-r]””””””’Not being(#hateful, Looney, extreme, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far,) far right does not indicate that you are left wing.”””””””””’

    #agree tom-r

  177. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 6:59 pm

    ‘Is that the best you can do?’

    Gina crossed my mind, but that outcome would appear vulgar to the electorate at large. So they may put the hat around.

  178. May 28, 2014 7:04 pm

    ”””Its certainly no longer a profession and its certainly not a trade””’

    #agree

    [tb]”””””’I know plumbers who can write better invoices than the sad lot we call journos today””””””

    #ditto, the plumbing will be science based, and the reporting `factual`

  179. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:13 pm

    Speaking of which, I’ve been googling tabot and testosterone. Funnily, all I can find is tabot using the term lol.

    I’ve been searching too, haven’t found a greens reference yet.

    As soon as the misogyny word is mentioned out come apologists to try and portray the behaviour as normal and everyone should lighten up. As if women don’t already experience everyday sexism every fkn day of their lives, they now need men to explain that what they’re feeling is not the creation of a systematic patriarchy, it’s just all a big joke [on women].

    Everyday sexism, yes al women experience that:
    http://blog.rascuache.net.au/opinion/women/everyday-sexism-yes-all-women-experience-it/

  180. May 28, 2014 7:15 pm

    ””(pick jobs pay equals about 3-4 bucks per hour)””

    #no link blubbers, life, l spent a lot of time with backpackers over the years

    #if l don`t include a link, it usually means `life-experience` and/or off-line information

    #when l use on-line information, l always include link, and usually a quote from it for clarity

    .

    [dumpty]””””””Union has reported cases of undocumented workers being paid as little as $3 per hour.

    Green Left Weekly”””””””’

    #nice find dumpty, if ya`got a link, chuck it up for blubbers, l wouldn`t mind checking it out me`self 🙂

  181. May 28, 2014 7:20 pm

    blubbers #note, pick-jobs usually pay $amounts per hoppers, buckets, crates, boxes, and various other `containers`,

    the $amount will vary per hour, but often falls in the 3-4 bucks range per hour

  182. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:28 pm

    What handout did I receive during the “”big piss up”” of 2007 to 2013 ?

    A healthy list of clients, rather than half heading to the dole queue 😉

  183. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:29 pm

    I know what you are saying tomM, but we are talking about a deliberate, serial sexism offender who has had the gall to make himself the minister for women. Why don’t you tell abbott to ‘lighten up’ on the sexist remarks?

  184. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:34 pm

    From your link AO

    We have been told these forms of protest are outdated – that we are behaving like we are back in 1969.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/heckling-is-loud-obnoxious-and-far-more-effective-than-a-hashtag-20140527-zrphl.html#ixzz3308Onfy4

    That still brings them about 20 years ahead of our current government.

    But activists do not need to be popular because the purpose of protest is not self-promotion. Unlike politicians, the goal of activists is not a high approval rating. We just want to keep Australians focused on the budget.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/heckling-is-loud-obnoxious-and-far-more-effective-than-a-hashtag-20140527-zrphl.html#ixzz3308nwnT1

    FUCK YEA!

    oh look………..Unicorn! 🙂

  185. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:36 pm

    Here you go bagz.

    https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/40144

    The article maybe biased.

  186. May 28, 2014 7:37 pm

    so teabags, are ya`watchin`the show on robotics

  187. May 28, 2014 7:40 pm

    https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/40144

    oh thanks dumpty, l will check it later, 🙂

    (#heads-up blubbers)

  188. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:45 pm

    I know what you are saying tomM, but we are talking about a deliberate, serial sexism offender who has had the gall to make himself the minister for women.

    Preceisely AO. As TB said earlier, as sexist remarks go, this is low on the tabot scale. But taken with the history he has, what a sexist f*ckwit we have as minister for the (where’s my ) ladies (of calibre).

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/apr/14/tony-abbott-photo-ladies-video

    (looking forward to that testosterone link for my records btw yomm 😉 )

  189. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:56 pm

    So I said –
    There’s plenty of commentary by ALP/Greens types about ‘testosterone fuelled behaviour’.
    People need to lighten up a little about vapours and winking. Plibersek’s response made a joke at Abbott’s expense, that’s about how it should be treated.

    …and I think there are plenty of ALP/Green “types” who have used “testosterone” as in their disparaging comments.
    https://www.google.com.au/#q=testosterone+julia+gillard++misogyny&safe=off

    I’m not offended,because I tend to think we should accept that type of language in the way Tanya Plibersek did today.

  190. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 28, 2014 7:59 pm

    Perhaps not “accept it” but deal with it with ridicule and humour rather than being offended.

  191. May 28, 2014 8:11 pm

    ””’s-o-o-o-o-o long ago since I went to the first one””’

    and it was quite a task to clear the mega-fauna off the pitch before-hand

  192. egg permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:13 pm

    Up The Mighty Blues!

  193. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:20 pm

    Perhaps not “accept it” but deal with it with ridicule and humour rather than being offended.

    basically, women, you just keep on accepting your lot in life with good humour

    sorry, not good enough

    in this day and age we should expect and demand more for people who make up half the population, especially from their political representation.

  194. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:23 pm

    ‘The seasonal work force in agriculture is currently made up of itinerant farm workers, family members, local casual workers, students, “grey nomads”, backpackers on the Working Holiday Maker Scheme and undocumented workers, including refugees on bridging visas who do not have work right

    so what is the govt doing about the ‘illegals’ and the employers who are acting illegally?

  195. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:27 pm

    Should we import agricultural guest workers to replace backpackers?

    why, do you want them all earning $1 or $2 an hour?

  196. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:43 pm

    Call me old fashioned, but I think getting offended by winks or “the vapours” or parliamentary banter is a little demeaning to genuine reasons to take offence at real, entrenched hatred.

  197. May 28, 2014 8:44 pm

    ””””””””’claims of a chronic labour shortage are disputed. In discussing “labour shortages”, employers have studiously avoided the fact that workers in agriculture and fruit picking are notoriously low paid for physically demanding and repetitive work.

    https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/40144
    ””””””””””””””””

    #there is a shortage of AUSSIE workers, farm-corp have largely, successfully driven-off aussies from the pick-jobs by giving $below-par jobs to `transients`,

    .

    ”””””””””The median weekly earnings for full-time employees in agriculture in 2003 was $575. This was around one-third lower than the median weekly income of all full-time employees in Australia ($769), making agriculture workers the lowest paid workers in the economy. Fruit pickers are among the lowest paid agricultural workers.”””””””””’

    #it also needs to be pointed out, this work is SEASONAL, SHORT-TERM employment at best, for most. There is NO `consistency` in the vast majority of these pick-jobs.

  198. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:46 pm

    But taken with the history he has, what a sexist f*ckwit we have as minister for the (where’s my ) ladies (of calibre).

    and combined with ladies of calibre having more worthy babies and his own daughters living the privileged life of tory networking, abbott stands for funding wealth and privilege while the poor have to beg in the streets.

    Privilege begets privilege when elites are first in the queue

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/privilege-begets-privilege-when-elites-are-first-in-the-queue-20140526-zrooy.html#ixzz330QGjfWk

    An education plan for kids of the upper crust:

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/an-education-plan-for-kids-of-the-upper-crust-20140526-zrns3.html

  199. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 8:54 pm

    Call me old fashioned, but I think getting offended by winks or “the vapours” or parliamentary banter is a little demeaning to genuine reasons to take offence at real, entrenched hatred.

    arrhh, there’s degrees of offence now, fine if you’re a male and you’ve never suffered the same insults over and over. People must only take offence at very nasty stuff, not your lifelong, everyday sexism.

  200. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:00 pm

    might as well say that homosexuals should only be offended when they are physically assaulted, that everyday homophobia should be accepted with good humour.

  201. May 28, 2014 9:00 pm

    ””””””””””’fine if you’re a male and you’ve never suffered the same insults over and over”””””””””””

    what would you know, you`re just a girl 🙂

  202. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 9:02 pm

    what would you know, you`re just a girl

    exactly, no need to have a fit of the vapours 😉

  203. May 28, 2014 9:09 pm

    ””””why, do you want them all earning $1 or $2 an hour?””””

    ultimately it is about removing `consumer-choice` armchair,

    even if you, as a consumer, disagree with farm-corp and textile-corp, you would be pretty much fcuked trying to buy food that does not have `visa-slave`/transient inputs, or buying clothing/manchester that does not have `child-slave`/sweatshop inputs,

    which is all to the benefit of monster-retail and import-corp via `free`trade-dumping

  204. Tom R permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:20 pm

    lol yomm … cnn ROFL

  205. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 28, 2014 10:28 pm

    Use outrage sparingly!

  206. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 28, 2014 11:47 pm

    I will not be told by that man when and why I can be outraged!

  207. May 29, 2014 12:42 am

    Coincidentally, that man’s outrage is demonstrably selective & (shock, horror) seems to be ideologically motivated, more often than not.

    * sometimes, it’s all about what the insects choose not to be outraged about.

    Says heaps…

  208. May 29, 2014 2:18 am

    Hmm Doctrines of social engineering pretending to be budgetary economics, statistical manipulation flabbergasting emergencies bribery degrees disguised as merited scholarships,, slush funds for favor pretending they’re not fundraisers and now an education minster thinks we should chase dead peoples HEX debts….I hope this keeps Pyne is now successfully parachuting out of a snakes ass as the government is free fall base jumping off a 5c coin… At this rate in the next few weeks they will be horny little catlicks pitchforking coal in Lucifer’s kitchen.

    The minister for educuntion

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/christopher-pyne-suggests-collecting-hecs-debts-from-dead-students-as-way-to-help-budget-20140528-394rx.html

  209. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 6:10 am

    The minister for edugrubion

    Fixed it for ya Ricky 😉

    Or perhaps I just misheard?

  210. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 6:17 am

    but I think getting offended by winks or “the vapours” or parliamentary banter is a little demeaning to genuine reasons to take offence at real, entrenched hatred.

    Exactly yomm, and, as both AO and TB have politely pointed out to you, it is not these (Note the plural) very recent examples on their own that is the issue. It is a loooong history of the same and much worse coming from one individual, who has now named HIMself the minister for the (where’s my ) ladies (of calibre)

    I’m also assuming that your “Use outrage sparingly!” quote was your way of saying…….

  211. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 7:47 am

    ‘it also needs to be pointed out, this work is SEASONAL, SHORT-TERM employment at best, for most. There is NO `consistency` in the vast majority of these pick-jobs.’

    That’s why an avenue for seasonal guest workers should be encouraged. The Timorese are the most impoverished people in the world, surely we could reach out to them?

    Some here might say if agricultural guest workers can’t at least get the minimum wage then the fruit should rot. Likewise its far better for young unemployed Australians to lay around and get the dole rather than work on below minimum wages.

    Is this the consensus here?

  212. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 7:57 am

    Is this the consensus here?

    I agree with it.Don’t know about anyone else (but I’m guessing yomm and Walrus wouldn’t);)

  213. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 8:07 am

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    Yea, now they’re worried about breaking promises

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    Conservative think tank the Institute of Public Affairs has warned the Abbott government it risks breaking an election promise if it abandons plans to repeal and re-write race hate laws.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/ipa-urges-tony-abbott-and-george-brandis-to-stick-with-flawed-race-law-changes-20140528-394o1.html#ixzz333CA5AfP

    How did such numbnuts get to carry so much weight in our political system.

  214. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 8:10 am

    I work in the bush and have done my fair share of agricultural work, so I disagree with the concept that fruit should be left to rot when we could employ seasonal guest workers from Timor or Indonesia.

  215. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 8:26 am

    Timor-Leste is a relatively poor country ‘with 41 percent of the population under the poverty line.’

    Oh, where is the humanity?

  216. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 8:38 am

    Yes, we should force our wages down to suit the poorest nations.

    numbnuts!

  217. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:04 am

    Timor could be our Mexico, its a win win.

  218. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:10 am

    When I was a mere youth, I did plenty of fruit picking for a little extra income. During various (what are these days called) gap years I worked in remote dusty mining towns in WA and NT. I think all this adds to the rich tapestry of experience, and all adds to a well-rounded story teller personality.

    It should be almost compulsory for younger people without family responsibilities.

  219. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:19 am

    It should be almost compulsory for younger people without family responsibilities.

    I AGREE! (especially the “almost” bit 😉 )

    But, should people be forced to work there for below award conditions? That is where I disagree FERVENTLY with egg. How about you?

  220. Walrus permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:21 am

    “…………………..”””””””””The median weekly earnings for full-time employees in agriculture in 2003 was $575. This was around one-third lower than the median weekly income of all full-time employees in Australia ($769), ………………”

    FMD…………….Teabagz……………………..Two Thousand and F**king THREE ????

    Are you kidding………………………….And you accuse Abbott of living in the past

  221. May 29, 2014 9:29 am

    With the end of the financial year fast approaching, we thought it would be a good idea to ask Walrus if he has any EOFY tips to claiming expenses and reducing your taxation obligations.

    And then we came to our senses…

  222. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:31 am

    ‘It should be almost compulsory for younger people without family responsibilities.’

    The Green Army might fulfil this function.

  223. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:39 am

    Baby Boomer Grey Nomads are keen.

    http://thegreynomads.com.au/lifestyle/working-as-you-go/1485/

  224. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:41 am

    From that link.

    ‘Fruit pickers are either paid by the hour or by the bucket. The hourly wage is based on the Australian standard wage rate for casual farm workers.’

  225. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:46 am

    The election of the Abbott government gave a boost to Australian economic activity and confidence. That goodwill is rapidly fading due to the prime minister’s negativity

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/28/will-abbotts-economic-negativity-become-a-self-fulfilling-prophesy

    When will this government be held to account for trash talking the economy down PRIOR to the election. It is all blame Labor, but, it was the libs who really had the biggest impact (after global conditions) on the economic conditions. Business believed their lies, and obviously still do. When will we get adults in charge?

  226. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:02 am

    ‘Fruit pickers are either paid by the hour or by the bucket. The hourly wage is based on the Australian standard wage rate for casual farm workers.’

    It’s the dream, not the reality.

    http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/radio/program/pacific-beat/australian-employment-watchdog-finds-apple-pickers-underpaid/1316366

  227. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:21 am

    should people be forced to work there (fruit picking, or anywhere) for below award conditions?

    I would be interested on opinions? If there are any?

  228. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:23 am

    But, should people be forced to work there for below award conditions? That is where I disagree FERVENTLY with egg. How about you?

    no they not, they should be paid the award rate, if they are not paid that it amounts to forced slavery.

    Hundreds of thousands of Australian workers overlooked for jobs:
    http://www.nswnma.asn.au/hundreds-of-thousands-of-australian-workers-overlooked-for-jobs/

  229. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:28 am

    On the Today Show this morning (THURS) Treasurer Joe Hockey followed the party line. “I don’t know what happened. I don’t know the circumstances. I will leave it to those people but it doesn’t surprise me in Canberra you bump into each other at restaurants. There is only a few restaurants in Canberra,” he said.

    “Obviously Clive might have more than one meal a night so it is quite possible you will bump into him at a restaurant. I think it is probably just coincidence, nothing more.”

    But then Clive blew them all out of the water as he was quizzed about the appropriateness of a civil servant of Mr Parkinson’s stature attending such a dinner.

    “I didn’t invite Martin I was invited by Malcolm. Malcolm sent me a text and suggested I should call in and have a bite to eat with him after the Mineral Council,” he said. They were, after all, old friends, he said.

    Is Malcolm planning a move? Or is Clive just bullshitting to the electorate too? Why a senior Treasury official ..?

    Or? … or? … or? …

    Still this bits funny … But then Clive blew them all out of the water

  230. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:33 am

    I’m not offended,because I tend to think we should accept that type of language in the way Tanya Plibersek did today.

    Because everyone has testosterone … the vapours don’t exist! It refers to women of a weak disposition ..

    Here ya go see No 2 … fk its hard here sometimes …

    https://www.google.com.au/#newwindow=1&q=meaning+of+the+vapours

  231. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:39 am

    Can you fix me up, sreb? 🙂 Missed the </ before the blockquote again …

    Can't blame the keyboard anymore … new one …

    Ta, in anticipation … 🙂

  232. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:42 am

    Australia needs its young workers back:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-19/jericho-australia-needs-its-young-workers-back/5329212

    …As soon as the GFC hit, young workers were the first to go, and mostly they have been kept away.

    The youth were certainly hit the hardest by the GFC – the unemployment rates for those under 25 rose by more than any other age bracket. This is always the case during downturns – the youth always have higher unemployment rates than other ages and not surprisingly during downturns their rate increases by more…

  233. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:50 am

    …It should be almost compulsory for younger people without family responsibilities…

    starting with abbott’s daughters, the other pollie’s kids and the private school kids, surely they should show the way forward for australia. Lead on!

  234. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:52 am

    Why a senior Treasury official

    Perhaps they have found that discussing tactics in public is more private than emails 😉

    The trails of the emails is long after all.

  235. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 10:52 am

    I wonder if this translator could be used for the Hockey Budget … no-one else seems to understand it …

    “It is early days for this technology, but the Star Trek vision for a Universal Translator isn’t a galaxy away, and its potential is every bit as exciting as those Star Trek examples,” explained Pall. “Skype Translator opens up so many possibilities to make meaningful connections in ways you never could before in education, diplomacy, multilingual families and in business.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/28/microsofts-star-trek-voice-translator-skype

    Oh, and check out our intrepid young reporter’s spelling … (Samuel’s name is a bit of a clue to his “generation” … )

    English to German and visa versa

    Sad, hey … taken in isolation a slip up … but these gaffe’s of spelling and grammar are spiralling …

  236. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 11:01 am

    I work in the bush and have done my fair share of agricultural work, so I disagree with the concept that fruit should be left to rot when we could employ seasonal guest workers from Timor or Indonesia.

    If they were getting paid the award wages, do you think the fruit would still be left to rot?

    Working holiday-makers ‘exposed to exploitation’:
    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/02/27/working-holiday-makers-exposed-exploitation

    …But Jenny Crook from the Fair Work Ombudsman says cases of inadvertent and deliberate underpayment in the agriculture sector are common.

    “Unfortunately in this industry, we do see quite a lot of underpayments. Over the past couple of years the FWO has investigated around 230 complaints in this industry and we recovered about $80,000 for 107 workers. About a third of those were visa holders on a working holiday visa and for those we recovered about $13,500 in respect of 32 workers.”…

    …He says often the farmers are paying the right amounts, but by the time they get to the workers, they’ve been diluted through a complex chain of recruiters and contractors.

    “The farm owner pays the right amount to the workers, but the farm owner has contractors, contractors have subcontractors and then sub-subcontractors and finally in the pyramid there’s the workers, Korean workers. That’s why they can’t get the money…It’s always under (award rates).”…

  237. May 29, 2014 11:02 am

    PM Abbott on 2GB.

    “The fact that something’s false won’t stop a desperate politician from repeating it over and over again.”

  238. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 11:03 am

    At the bottom of the article TB

    (This article was updated to reflect the fact that the German translation included a few mistakes, not one.)

    Perhaps they should have Skyped the article to the journo 😉

    Mind you, I wonder if they are aware that Skype actually parses (or will, not sure if it is in yet) conversations, in order to better match “advertising” (apparently)

    Big Bro’s watching 😦

  239. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 11:04 am

    PM Abbott on 2GB.

    He fears no-one (‘cept students, questions, …….)

  240. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 11:13 am

    The selling of the budget continues

    Federal Education Minister Christopher Pyne has floated the idea of collecting student debts from the dead as a way of boosting the budget bottom line.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/christopher-pyne-suggests-collecting-hecs-debts-from-dead-students-as-way-to-help-budget-20140528-394rx.html

  241. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 11:21 am

    Refreshing to see that Labor isn’t the only party with dirty, low, backstabbing traitors

    LIBERAL defector Martin Hamilton-Smith has warned his former colleagues to drop their personal attacks or face an avalanche of dirt about years of treachery and betrayal within the South Australian Liberal Party.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/throw-mud-and-ill-spill-dirt-says-martin-hamiltonsmith/story-e6frgczx-1226935000182#

    Wonder if he and Rudd will get together and form their own party?

    Although, at least he had the guts to just leave, but I do feel for those who voted for him, as misguided as I think they might be 😉

  242. May 29, 2014 11:24 am

    Bill Shorten: “I’ve never shared a banana split with Clive Palmer”

    #SplitGate

  243. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 29, 2014 11:39 am

    ”starting with abbott’s daughters, the other pollie’s kids and the private school kids, surely they should show the way forward for australia. Lead on!

    If the option is that they go on the dole, I agree!

    Personally, I found it a great experience to work in dusty mining towns when I was younger, and doing it for a year or 2 looks good on any CV. Anyone without specific family responsibilities should do the same, rather than just take welfare.

  244. May 29, 2014 11:46 am
  245. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 11:47 am

    Thanks, sreb, … re Abbott what can one say … oh, I know! FUCKWIT!

    Perhaps they should have Skyped the article to the journo

    Chuckle …

    Bill Shorten: “I’ve never shared a banana split with Clive Palmer”

    Chortle …

    … cereally tho’, has Turnbull found something seriously wrong in the budget – or Treasury?

    Is Turnbull, trying to find out what he could deal with, Clivey?

    The permutations are mind boggling …

    And why wasn’t Clivey watching the State of Orange? That’s just how serious this “secret” dinner was …

    I’m a big fan of fried ice cream myself … 😉 (don’t like these smileys at all – childish and blurred)

  246. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 11:49 am

    Sir reb of Melbourne permalink*

    May 29, 2014 11:46 am

    Moderation?

  247. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 12:03 pm

    If the option is that they go on the dole, I agree!

    Does that mean that the kid should go on the dole rather than work for less than the award?

  248. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 29, 2014 12:16 pm

    I’m not in favour of cutting award wage rates, I think the adult minimum rate is about $19 an hour, and that seems reasonable for us.

    Some areas I’m not so certain about –
    • Some highly unionised industries abolished junior rates, and I’m not sure this is a particularly great idea.
    • Some industries probably need to review how penalty rates apply (eg does a part time waiter/uni student need Sunday penalty rates?)
    • Do the minimum hours of employment need to apply to full time students?

  249. May 29, 2014 12:18 pm

    Nothing moderation queue TB…

  250. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 12:24 pm

    Why a senior Treasury official…
    …Perhaps they have found that discussing tactics in public is more private than emails…

    hehe
    the ‘communications’ minister has a wide brief!

    This is why tony’s ideology of libertarian ‘freedom’ [anarchy for the rich] is the complete opposite of my view of individual freedom. It resonates today as we are talking about slavery [forced labour] for young kids and even bonded labour [work for the dole].
    I cannot have a caged bird no matter how beautiful they are to look at because they are not free, why I don’t like horses to have their spirit ‘broken’ to allow it to be ridden by humans.

  251. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 12:35 pm

    Some highly unionised industries abolished junior rates, and I’m not sure this is a particularly great idea.

    Are you able to supply an example. As it is well known that many jobs young people are moved on once they reach a certain age, which has both it’s positive and negative effects.

    ome industries probably need to review how penalty rates apply (eg does a part time waiter/uni student need Sunday penalty rates?)

    Need, debatable, deserve, yes. It’s called a weekend. It is part of our functioning society.

    Do the minimum hours of employment need to apply to full time students?

    Yes, with caveats. FYI

    http://www.fairwork.gov.au/industries/retail/hours-of-work-rosters-and-breaks/pages/hours-of-work

  252. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 12:39 pm

    Anyone without specific family responsibilities should do the same, rather than just take welfare.

    I would say that many already do, how many young australians are bludging on welfare vs doing anything they can to earn? What are the stats on this huge problem?

    The adventuring spirit of the young still exists, but why should they work under slave labour, exploitative conditions so that the wealthy can pocket more than they should from their labour?

    My daughter went to the US and spent a year working in the Big White snowfields, a chocolate shop/factory and hotel domestic work while she saw the sights. Perhaps a big sweaty tin shed in the middle of nowhere, wages not paid correctly or at all and abysmal, unhygienic, often unsafe, living conditions is not a great turn on for some young people.

  253. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 12:40 pm

    CEO salaries rise above $10 million but average workers aren’t getting a pay rise

    Millions of factory workers have lost their spots on assembly lines to machines. Offices need fewer secretaries and bookkeepers in the digital era.

    Robots and computers are displacing jobs that involve routine tasks, according to research by David Autor, an economist at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. As these middle-income positions vanish, workers are struggling to find new occupations that pay as much. Some must settle for low-paying retail and food service jobs.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/ceo-salaries-rise-above-10-million-but-average-workers-arent-getting-a-pay-rise/story-fn5tas5k-1226935616776

    Dontcha love watching Robber Barons playing in the Uber Kapitalism playground especially designed by “democratic” politicians … around the world …

  254. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 12:49 pm

    I’m not in favour of cutting award wage rates, I think the adult minimum rate is about $19 an hour, and that seems reasonable for us.

    why are so many getting less?

    one person’s experience:
    http://upabovetodownunder.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/easy-pickings-things-to-consider-when.html
    …When you sit down and do the maths, the figures don’t look great for the reward of your hard work. If you can pick two bins of apples per day at $30 per bin (bearing in mind that it took me three and a half hours to pick one bin), then for a day’s work you’ll be earning well below than the minimum wage if your employer refuses to comply with law and make your wages up to minimum pay. As mentioned before, to earn the minimum wage for an 8 and ½ hour day you would need to pick 4 bins worth of apples. I would consider myself a reasonably fit young person who isn’t shy to do a day’s hard work, but I could safely say that I wouldn’t be earning the minimum wage for some considerable time. On the whole, I was largely made to feel expendable by the contractor when I made this point as I was told that there were any number of backpackers willing to take my job if I didn’t like the situation…

  255. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:13 pm

    another must read essay

    http://inside.org.au/thomas-piketty-mass-audience/#.U4VflrxNvto.twitter

    …How Thomas Piketty found a mass audience, and what it means for public policy
    Thomas Picketty’s phenomenally successful Capital confirms that Western countries are becoming less equal. John Quiggin looks at how he fits into a long-running debate about inequality, and finds some encouraging signs…

    Might also be why ‘one term tony’ is facing a budget backlash bucketing.

  256. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:16 pm

    Federal Education Minister Christopher Pyne has floated the idea of collecting student debts from the dead as a way of boosting the budget bottom line.

    another marvellous musing from the coalition

    if we talk up the extremes, then people might begin to think our budget is reasonable!

  257. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:22 pm

    zd net
    http://www.zdnet.com/au/australian-government-considers-graduated-response-to-piracy-7000029968/?s_cid=e551&ttag=e551&ftag=TRE7ed2633

    Summary: The Attorney-General’s Department is actively considering a graduated response scheme to crack down on online copyright infringement, officials have confirmed:

  258. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:23 pm

    ‘Sad, hey … taken in isolation a slip up … but these gaffe’s of spelling and grammar are spiralling …’

    The result of a trade fallen on hard times.

  259. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:30 pm

    The result of a trade with their focus elsewhere.

  260. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:31 pm

    Nothing moderation queue TB…

    Was referring to your post … no tweet there when I commented …

  261. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:38 pm

    … another marvellous musing from the coalition …

    And now rescinded by The Leader … the head has no idea its tail is wagging and knocking stuff over …

    Sorry if this was a business Abbot and his managers would be out on their ear …

    Tawdry amateurs … we need to employ some adults …

    Last night’s Turnbull Tryst is making more sense by the minute …

  262. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:40 pm

    something for TB
    [yes i know that i don’t conform wid da grammar or punctuation or spelling!]

    https://twitter.com/TheAviator1992/status/471549843240787968

  263. Walrus permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:40 pm

    “……. I was told that there were any number of backpackers willing to take my job if I didn’t like the situation…”

    …………….I was told that there were any number of taxpayers willing to take their taxes back if I didn’t like the situation…

    There………………………..fixed for you

  264. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:47 pm

    So, Walrus, do you think that the unemployed should be forced to work for below award rates as egg opined this morning?

  265. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 1:55 pm

    Thanks KL! Fer all of ’em!

    …………….I was told that there were any number of taxpayers willing to take their taxes back if I didn’t like the situation…

    What are you prattling on about now … what has that to do with fkn taxpayers … it certainly highlights the problem with Work For The Dole … if that’s what you mean …

    Fire ’em and fk ’em …

    If a job exists for the dole then they should be paid award wages … not the dole … that’s just avoidance of the law …

    Starts with councils and states and then its so successful they offer work for the dole labour to free enterprise who fire their staff and … operate with underpaid workers – on the dole …

    If people can work at a job then they should be paid the correct amount for that job …

  266. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 2:25 pm

    Maybe not a leadershit, but liarshit?

    “Mr Abbott needs to be concerned – Mr Turnbull is rapidly closing the gap in the competition to be the greatest liar in the Parliament.”

    The evidence shows that Clare is correct when he states that Turnbull is lying with respect to the Minister’s claims about Labor’s NBN policy.

    http://delimiter.com.au/2014/05/29/jason-clare-coward-claims-turnbull/

  267. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 29, 2014 2:26 pm

    There………………………..fixed for you

    what you are saying is throw the younger generation to the wolves.

    They want jobs, not exploitation. Work for the dole is essentially bonded labour, just replace the word debt with dole.

    http://www.antislavery.org/english/slavery_today/what_is_modern_slavery.aspx
    There are many different characteristics that distinguish slavery from other human rights violations, however only one needs to be present for slavery to exist. Someone is in slavery if they are:

    my bold

    – forced to work – through mental or physical threat; [no unemployment benefits, starvation, homeless
    – owned or controlled by an ’employer’, usually through mental or physical abuse or the threat of abuse; [employer can refer them to the agencies for punishment or take advantage of their powerless situation, threaten them physically, emotionally and economically]
    – dehumanised, treated as a commodity or bought and sold as ‘property’; [dole bludgers, forced green army participants, labour hire exploitation, work-for-dole eg cheap labour for employers who should be paying award rates]
    – physically constrained or has restrictions placed on his/her freedom of movement. [forced to move to certain designated areas against their will]

  268. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 3:19 pm

    In light of ht Wild Duck Gate

    Is this the new leadershit battleground?

  269. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 3:41 pm

    The Thick Plottens

    One version of the get-together is as follows.

    Mr Turnbull was back late in Parliament House because his department was being grilled in Senate Estimates hearings. As he left he ran into a friend, business executive and Liberal Party vice-president Tom Harley who also was a friend of Mr Palmer. They agreed Mr Turnbull should text Mr Palmer and invite him to dinner. Another businessman, John Fast, was with them.

    In the Parliament House car park Mr Turnbull ran into Dr Parkinson, who had been head of the Environment Department when Mr Turnbull was Environment Minister in 2007. He, too, was invited to dine.

    Another version says that when a Daily Telegraph news team turned up, Mr Turnbull and Mr Palmer walked out to the cameras, but two others at the table, including Dr Parkinson, opted to leave by a back way.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/clive-palmer-and-malcolm-turnbulls-dinner-date-sparks-controversy/story-fncynjr2-1226935814855

    The evidence shows that Clare is correct when he states that Turnbull is lying with respect to the Minister’s claims about Labor’s NBN policy.

    How odd … I was just saying to The Minister that Turnbull had shut down on speaking out (he really did BS a lot and should have known better*) against the NBN and its was trundling out quite nicely (if you check the NBN roll out map) …

    *one of the reasons I quit my personal support for him … part politics or not … most people do not like liars …

  270. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 5:45 pm

    party politics

  271. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 6:26 pm

    ‘So, Walrus, do you think that the unemployed should be forced to work for below award rates as egg opined this morning?’

    No I didn’t, bloody hate media twist everything. I was suggesting seasonal guest workers should be allowed into the country to pick fruit on award wages.

    The buggers without papers, Julia’s asylum seekers, undercutting the genuine workers, are only a glitch and will soon fade.

  272. TB Queensland permalink
    May 29, 2014 7:04 pm

    The buggers without papers, Julia’s asylum seekers, undercutting the genuine workers, are only a glitch and will soon fade.

    Welcome to …

    ♫♪ la ♪ la la ♪ la la ♬♪ la ♫ land♫

    Julia’s fkn asylum seekers?

    Asylum seekers aren’t “owned” … yer sound as silly as fkn Kneel …

  273. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 7:08 pm

    Twist this egg

    Likewise its far better for young unemployed Australians to lay around and get the dole rather than work on below minimum wages.

  274. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 7:10 pm

    yer sound as silly as fkn Kneel

    He’s worst. nil sticks to a small sub-set of stoopidity. egg has a seemingly bottomless pit of stoopid.

  275. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 29, 2014 7:20 pm

    “against the NBN and its was trundling out quite nicely”

    Started in 2008 and nowhere near finished in 2014. Most probably a waste of money as well.

    I bet you the Libs had a better policy in 2007.

  276. Tom R permalink
    May 29, 2014 7:29 pm

    I retract my previous post.

    nil is expanding into new territories too 😦

  277. May 29, 2014 7:41 pm

    ”””’That’s why an avenue for seasonal guest workers should be encouraged.”””

    #You`re talking `visa-slaves` here dumpty, the problem with `visa`s is the visa is being used as the `first` employer choice, which is being used far beyond, just `seasonal` or `short-fall` positions.

    e.g. asian(india,phillipine) nurses are being brought in to Aust hospitals and medical centers while Aust nurses/graduates are not being allowed a job by management.

    e.g. Last month a private hospital was sold/taken-over by new owners/management, when my friend went to this small hospital for a procedure, he told me that all the staff were now `black`, he thinks `indian`, previously, it was `mixed` staff, black, white and asian, armchair may know the name of this small hospital(l_forget_and_deleted_email)

    .

    ”””””the fruit should rot. Likewise its far better for young unemployed Australians to lay around and get the dole rather than work on below minimum wages.”””””

    #funny you say that dumpty, the aussie pickers, that `use` to earn a living picking, were going and picking one `hopper`/`crate` per week, just so they could `report` for the dole-office they had worked that week, all under their own steam, to keep the dole-office off their back, they would earn some piddling amount, say ten bucks, and then the dole-office would reduce their `dole` by ten bucks,

    #l think this NON-motivational thing is the bigger problem.

  278. May 29, 2014 8:01 pm

    ”””When I was a mere youth, I did plenty of fruit picking”””

    Bullshit. Your daddy pushed you arse-backwards into an overpaid, cosy cubicle job, where you remained, and managed to flourish.

    Your own constant disrespect and dislike of those that actually `do` work beyond the `cubicle` oozes out in most of your comments,

    this is more to your TRUE form,

    ”””It should be almost compulsory for younger people”””

  279. May 29, 2014 8:34 pm

    ””””””’full-time employees in agriculture in 2003 was $575. This was around one-third lower than the median weekly income of all full-time employees in Australia ($769),

    FMD….Teabagz…..Two Thousand and F**king THREE ????”””

    l explained clearly above, `life-experience`,

    l will also point out the info on dumpty`s link,

    ””’around one-third lower than the median weekly income””

    will still be `about-right`, the rate didn`t move in `about`15-years, and in the 1990`s, when the $2nz=$1au, the pick-job rates went down, as did shearers and other rural jobs, as they were flooded by kiwi workers,

    you may recall today-tonight, aca and other news-tainment shows that did stories on `free-land` and $1-per-block, to try and save dying towns,

    the workers were driven off to the big smoke, other rural biz-failed, banks left town, schools closed,

    l actually spoke to these people and was on the ground at some of these dying/abandoned town at the time blubbers, as they went thru their `detroit`moments #teabags

  280. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 29, 2014 8:39 pm

    The combination of income and intellectual envy by teabgz is quite hilarious!

    *queue another series of Americanisms.
    ——–
    “l actually spoke to these people and was on the ground “

    More hilarity!! Got some proof of that?

  281. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 8:50 pm

    Agricultural workers are not poorly treated.

    ‘I was paid 18.60AUD (about $17US) an hour, about 50 cents above Australian minimum wage. I was also taxed, but I was able to claim them back — after I returned from Australia I claimed all the taxes I had paid over two years. The employer also pays money into your Super Annuation fund, which is like a state pension. This can also be claimed back.’

    Alex / Backpacker

  282. May 29, 2014 9:09 pm

    ”””Agricultural workers are not poorly treated.””’

    no link dumpty, poor show when ya`quoting,

    ag-worker can be `any-damn-thing`,
    (and not necessarily a pick-job)

  283. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:11 pm

    ‘Likewise its far better for young unemployed Australians to lay around and get the dole rather than work on below minimum wages.’

    It was said tongue in cheek.

    The government has no intention of driving down award wages in the agricultural industry and will prosecute employers who behave badly. They want Australia to become the food bowl of Asia.

    The Green Army is a different kettle of fish, these workers will get less than the minimum wage, but in compensation the government will probably say its a character building exercise for wayward youth. There should be votes in that.

  284. May 29, 2014 9:19 pm

    ”””’intellectual envy by teabgz”””’

    envy.? of who.?

    and do you tragically consider ya`self intellectual yomm.? #teabags

  285. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:24 pm

    You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with my background and income.

    Do try to get over it.

  286. May 29, 2014 9:28 pm

    ”””””””””””””’A partnership with Alex in Wanderland is a fun and effective way to promote your destination, tour, activity, lodging, restaurant, or more. I will publish a review and promote it and my experience on this site as well as on social media. All sponsored activity reviews will include a disclosure.

    http://www.alexinwanderland.com/advertising/
    ””””””””””””””’

    pick-jobs sound `wonderful` on a promotion site

  287. May 29, 2014 9:42 pm

    No obsession here yomm, you delude ya`self.

    l consider you to probably be a paid-comment pedant-troll with little-to-no fcuking life-experience what so ever.

    and evidence indicates YOU are the one obsessed with others income,

    ””’I think the adult minimum rate is about $19 an hour, and that seems reasonable””’

    ””’Some industries probably need to review how penalty rates apply (eg does a part time waiter/uni student need Sunday penalty rates?)”””’

    you are always happy to pick away at the bottom earners, and you always lack the nads to say exactly why other people deserve in your mind, to be stuck living in poverty/financial-hardship, or why they should never be able to buy a home no matter how hard they work,

    l await your next half-witted, pendant, snark-remark #teabag

  288. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:52 pm

    ”snark-remark”

    Hilarious from the expert at snarkiness.

    Just about every thread contains something like …”Your daddy pushed you …overpaid, cosy cubicle job”

    Always an obsession about my income, background, job.

    Clearly, I couldn’t give a f**k about your background, income or job, I’ve never bothered to enquire or comment about it. It’s all dull and bitter, no doubt.

  289. egg permalink
    May 29, 2014 9:59 pm

    ‘pick-jobs sound `wonderful` on a promotion site’

    Yeah

  290. Meta permalink
    May 29, 2014 11:52 pm

    (Speaking of character-building, has the Crown-in-Chief worked out yet that making yoof ‘pick’ whatever work is available, say underpaid quasi-conscription work with sub-standard safety protocols, maybe should register as being a little bit like stapling tinfoil to his own and their head(s)? Not that the notion of kids being encouraged down mine and/or t’live in cardboard box necessarily should raise any concerns, either, I guess.)

  291. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:02 am

    Cry`me`a`Teabag quoted egg saying ”””Agricultural workers are not poorly treated.””’

    eggs either fck’n stoopid, or deliberately misleading, as I put a link up earlier about fruit pickers being found to have been under paid. There is a long list of exploitation in this industry. It is not the best paying job by a long way (although you can make a decent living with lots of hard work). Putting up brochures as evidence ROFL. This isn’t your denialist back door thread egg, others read this.

    http://www.awu.net.au/news/awu-backs-fair-work-ombudsman-push-end-exploitation-among-fruit-and-vegetable-pickers
    http://www.themercury.com.au/lifestyle/cherry-farms-under-fair-work-pay-spotlight/story-fnj64o9j-1226770388328
    http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/radio/program/pacific-beat/australian-employment-watchdog-finds-apple-pickers-underpaid/1316366

  292. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:55 am

    ”The sad thing is in my home state of Tasmania over 90 per cent of fruit pickers come from overseas,” he told ABC radio.

    ”If people can come from overseas to pick the fruit in Tasmania one wonders why potentially young unemployed Tasmanians couldn’t do the same task.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/young-and-without-work-take-up-fruit-picking-says-liberal-senator-eric-abetz-20140526-38xmb.html#ixzz338zdNNWH

  293. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 8:06 am

    ‘There is a long list of exploitation in this industry’

    The inspectors are earning their money and I don’t see a long list, you really are hate media personified, twisting the troof and making shit up.

    Ultimately the Chinese mainlanders will buy the farms at a premium price and employ their own people on Australian award wages.

    In the meantime our fair dinkum layabouts need the rug pulled from under them.

  294. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 8:08 am

    I hear you Meta and hopefully there won’t be a rerun of the pink batts saga with the Green Army.

  295. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 8:17 am

    and I don’t see a long list,

    That’s because you don’t read links. If you did, you might see why the unemployed might be wary of fruit picking in Tasmania. And, fruit picking might be enough to help bolster income for back-packers with savings, but for a full time income, it can help fill in gaps in the dole (which it often does), but, unless you become truly itinerant, and travel the country, then it isn’t a full time occupation within one state.

    We still don’t know if you support your statement about the unemployed being sent out to pick fruit for below award conditions. Do you?

  296. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 8:18 am

    ‘Are you a backpacker here on a work and travel Australia holiday? Don’t leave before you have to! By doing three months of qualifying work in regional areas – and fruit picking work often qualifies – you can turn your Working Holiday in Australia visa into the Extended Working Holiday in Australia visa. Stay for an extra year, see some more of this amazing country, and meet a great bunch of people!’

    Downunder.com

  297. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 8:23 am

    You really are a fckn Idiot egg

    You quote advertising pamphlettes as fact, and ignore real evidence.

    Perhaps ALL of your posts should be made out the back room where the stoopid doesn’t have to be read by the rest of us

  298. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 8:26 am

    ‘Do you?’

    For the record, the law forbids agricultural workers being paid below award wages and naturally I support this. The government inspectors will continue to monitor the situation and bring about prosecutions at every opportunity.

    There are crooks everywhere, farmers, politicians, bankers, lawyers etc., and they have to be weeded out and crushed.

  299. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 8:30 am

    ‘You really are a fckn Idiot egg’

    And you really are a nasty fkn piece of work.

  300. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 9:24 am

    “”……………. and you always lack the nads to say exactly why other people deserve in your mind, to be stuck living in poverty/financial-hardship,…………””

    What is it with this obsession about some sort of utopian financial equality ?

    It does not exist.,……………….it has never existed……………………………..and it wont exist in the future.

    So get over it and just accept that there will always be people materially better off than others.

  301. "Shut Up!", He Explained permalink
    May 30, 2014 9:26 am

    “Perhaps ALL of your posts should be made out the back room where the stoopid doesn’t have to be read by the rest of us”

    Tom R’s trying to flex his Cafe Whispers instinct, acquired at a place that doesn’t tolerate dissenting opinion.

  302. May 30, 2014 9:27 am

    “So get over it and just accept that there will always be people materially better off than others.”

    I think we understand that.

    I just never figured that it was the role of government to make the worse off worse off, and the better off better off…

    There’s just something fundamentally wrong about that.

  303. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 9:34 am

    Tom R’s trying to flex his Cafe Whispers instinct, acquired at a place that doesn’t tolerate dissenting opinion.

    Or he’s sick of eggs lying and deliberately ignoring to address reality when he carries on in his own dreamtime.

    A thread full of advertisements designed to lure backpackers here to be exploited. Is this the level of “debate” we have? Is the level of “debate” you support tosy? Is this all there is?

  304. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 9:35 am

    I just never figured that it was the role of government to make the worse off worse off, and the better off better off…

    Welcome to post modern guvarmament reb 😦

  305. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 9:43 am

    Quite impossible to refute

    Tony Abbott is a liar: It’s a mathematical truth

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/tony-abbott-is-a-liar-its-a-mathematical-truth-20140529-zrs5h.html#ixzz339R607dG

  306. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 9:54 am

    “…..I just never figured that it was the role of government to make the worse off worse off, and the better off better off…””

    Well you can hardly blame this Budget for that. People have simply had welfare handouts stripped from them after many here have been bleating about middle class welfare for years.

    OK pensioners might we worse off via the co-payment which is capped but that was supported previously by portions of the ALP (by the way why is such a co-payment seen as sooooooooooooooooo terrible when there is an existing co-payment for medicines as well anyway).

    Perhaps for pensioners it should be lower with a lower cap.

    But everyone else is just f**king whingeing. I’m no better or worse off (except via petrol excise) simply because I never received any welfare anyway plus due to neg gearing and super I’m no better or worse off. Even the deficit tax wont affect me.

    So I’m really angry about your statement as I’m no better off as you falsely claim.

    The gravy train of welfare that fed into McMansions and multiple plasmas and 4WDs and Family Tax Benefit B financing private school fees is over.

    Its finished……………………….get over it.

    The hangover is here

    Remember all that money that was borrowed to pay for yesterdays party which had to be repaid tomorrow………………………?

    Well tomorrow is here and he wants his money back

  307. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:05 am

    “Tony Abbott is a liar: It’s a mathematical truth”

    Hilarious………………………..a collection of Left Wing Journos say Abbott is a liar…………………because they say so.

    Budget Crisis ?……………………………..ask any independent economist like Chris Richardson, Craig James or Saul Eslake and they all agree spending had to be wound back

  308. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:08 am

    Well you can hardly blame this Budget for that.

    ROFL

    It’s all Labors fault that

    • the cut-off for Family Tax Benefit B has been reduced to $100,000 from $150,000. (remember the uproar when Labor brought it to $150?)

    • Family Tax Benefit B will now be cut off for families where the youngest child is six or older.

    • All family benefits will also remain on hold until either 2016 or 2017

    • increases in the petrol excise

    • GP co-payment of $7

    • patients paying a $5 fee on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme

    • the age of eligibility for Newstart to be raised from 22 to 25

    • People on Newstart under the age of 30 will only be eligible for payments six months out of every 12 months they are unemployed.

    • school leavers being forced to waits six months to be eligible for Youth Allowance.

    • $7.6 billion stipped out of the foreign aid budget over five years

    • Commonwealth Seniors Health Card holders to lose the Seniors supplement

    • The pension age will rise to 70

    • dumping the Gonski school funding plan in 2017-18 (Unity ticket anyone)

    • uncapping university fees

    • Changing the interest rate on FEE-HELP loans

    • The minimum income threshold at which people will have to begin repaying their debt will be lowered by 10 per cent.

    • $534 million to be cut from Indigenous programs administered by the Prime Minister and Cabinet and Health portfolios

    • Funding for Indigenous language support announced in the last budget will also be cut by $9.5 million over five years.

    • $80 BILLION dollars stripped from Health and Education

    All based on a none existant Budget Emergency

    And you somehow blame Labor

    ROFL

  309. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:10 am

    and they all agree spending had to be wound back

    You mean in the way Labor were doing?

  310. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:12 am

    Do we live in a free enterprise country or not?

    Seems the bastions of capitalism like to play controllers … you certainly wouldn’t let any of them near the administration of a business … FREE ENTERPRISE … my arse …

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/virgin-australia-threatens-to-pull-out-of-brisbane-after-state-cabinet-backflip-favoured-qantas/story-fnihsps3-1226936373238#itm=newscomau%7Chome%7Cnca-homepage-topstories%7CNaN%7Clink%7Chomepage%7Chomepage#itm=newscomau%7Chome%7Cnca-homepage-masthead-feature%7C1%7Clink%7Chomepage%7Chomepage

    So get over it and just accept that there will always be people materially better off than others.

    NO! If I had I would have been working all my life as a tradie …

    … shoved around by smart arsed people, “materially better off than” me, who generally know nothing about the real world … apart from making money through the “network” and putting down those who try to better themselves …

    The LNP governments around MY country are no better worse than any despotic fascist or communist regime that we all despise …

    … manipulation of a nation simply to increase profits for the rich and the privileged at the expense of the young, the struggling, the poor, the sick, the old and the frail … in one of the richest countries in the world is indefensible …

    … and your … “get over it” … demonstrates a mindset typical of those people who claim to be “doing the right thing for the country” … while fiscally raping and pillaging the people who are the heart of this country …

    Scrooge, only saw the light when it was too late … real compassion isn’t something you just talk about – it has to be experienced …

    “Get over it” … what empathy …

    I suggest you watch “Elysium”, coming to a high rise near you soon …

  311. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:14 am

    ‘Or he’s sick of eggs lying and deliberately ignoring to address reality when he carries on in his own dreamtime.’

    You are a green leftoid, that’s reality. And I don’t knowingly tell fibs.

    ‘A thread full of advertisements designed to lure backpackers here to be exploited. Is this the level of “debate” we have? Is the level of “debate” you support tosy? Is this all there is?’

    Aunty pumps out propaganda, not always a good source unless you can read between the lines. In your brainwashed state, this is unlikely to happen.

  312. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:16 am

    Its funny, but its not a laughing matter.

  313. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:21 am

    “• $80 BILLION dollars stripped from Health and Education”
    “• $7.6 billion stipped out of the foreign aid budget over five years”
    ” • $534 million to be cut from Indigenous programs administered by the Prime Minister and Cabinet and Health portfolios”

    Never funded………….just another empty promise

    “”• The minimum income threshold at which people will have to begin repaying their debt will be lowered by 10 per cent.””

    Share the pain……………….why should a cleaner paying tax not be spared whilst a precious Uni student bleats and whinges

    “• The pension age will rise to 70”

    All Western Economies are heading in the same direction………………………Boo Hoo

  314. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:23 am

    “”The LNP governments around MY country are no better worse than any despotic fascist or communist regime that we all despise … “”

    When you start prattling crap like that you are not worthy of a response

  315. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:28 am

    All Western Economies are heading in the same direction

    After the other day Wally, you still peddle this?

  316. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:39 am

    “After the other day Wally, you still peddle this?”

    Your German comparison was not valid………..you know that…………………but you just wont accept that they were not referring to a state pension as we know it.

    Nor did you mention that Merkel was only doing it to appease her coalition partners or that EU economists were condemning the move.

    So don’t peddle your crap

  317. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 10:52 am

    but you just wont accept that they were not referring to a state pension as we know it.

    No two countries pensions are the same, yet you are willing to compare the rest of the Western countries with us. I simply showed a case where a country was actually lowering their pension age. It isn’t surprising you didn’t like it.

    The fact that, going on your hyperventilating the other day about it, that their system has many similarities to the compulsory pension introduced by Labor, and abandoned by liberals, is a very strong argument for the libs to get back on board. As Germany is in fact reducing their pension age.

    Sorry, they’re just the facts. Not sure if you will read about it in a tourist pamphlet. but facts none the less.

    So don’t peddle your crap 😉

  318. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 11:27 am

    Oh you are such an expert now TomR since 2 days ago you didn’t even know the difference between the preservation age, the pension age or your understanding of “retirement age””.

    If anyone is peddling crap its you.

    Just like that crap you used to peddle about Thomson having successfully settled with Fairfax. You just repeat the same lie over and over despite being proven wrong………………….repeatedly

    And this is how the pension adjustment is viewed by economists in Europe.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/grand-coalition-pension-reform-will-create-inequality-a-933310.html

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2013/11/demography

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d808f79e-c943-11e3-bba1-00144feabdc0.html#axzz339q4PVsx

    You moronic Lefties just seem to believe the World owes you a living from some endless bucket of money stashed away somewhere.

    There is one thing I find fascinating about your daily posts

    You really do break new ground in moronic thought every single day

  319. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 11:37 am

    lol wally

    A heap of articles bagging the German Government for a reduction in the retirement age from 67 to 63 for those who have worked 45 years. to defend …..All Western Economies are heading in the same direction

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    Better get onto that article, they said retirement age. They must be talking about Justin Beiber 😆

    moronic is as moronic does 😉

  320. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 11:38 am

    When you start prattling crap like that you are not worthy of a response

    er, NO … again … you were prattling the crap – like, “get over it” … supreme, patronising arrogance … always worthy of a reply!

    And mine not worthy of your reply ’cause you know there’s an element of truth in the way the Abbott Acolytes are trying to deepen the split between rich and poor …

    Its all about PROFIT!

    Talk about you trying to “peddle” a barbed wire canoe up shit creek …

    ________________________________________

    I prefer to thrive in a society, rather than reside in a Liberal Party economy!

  321. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 11:42 am

    You moronic Lefties just seem to believe the World owes you a living from some endless bucket of money stashed away somewhere.

    Said like a true plutocrat, Sir Walter* …

    And you reckon my comments don’t deserve a reply … LOL! 🙂 🙂

  322. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 11:44 am

    And you reckon my comments don’t deserve a reply

    I get the feeling it’s his way of saying “I have no reply” 😉

    ‘cept for abuse 😆

  323. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 11:56 am

    You mean abuse like this…………………

    ‘You really are a fckn Idiot egg’

    You are a lying moron TomR…………………..and I seem to recall seeing a post from you over at the Café saying you’d never post at GT again.

    Yet another lie obviously

  324. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 11:57 am

    “”Said like a true plutocrat, Sir Walter* … “”

    Said like a true realist, Sir Walter* …

    There fixed for ya……………..!

  325. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:00 pm

    I seem to recall seeing a post from you over at the Café saying you’d never post at GT again.

    Do you have a link for that. 😉

    ‘You really are a fckn Idiot egg’

    It was worth saying again 😉

  326. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:00 pm

    “Well tomorrow is here and he wants his money back”

    Which parallel universe do you live in, Walrus? The first step is to work out what people need to have a decent lifestyle. Then you promise to give it to them, with cherries on top. Then you add the amount of funding needed for every looney lefty/greenie scheme you’ve ever dreamed of. Then you borrow lots of money and and give heaps of free money to everyone, close down the mining industry, fill on the evil dams, subsidise unicorn farming, and make everything free. At no stage do you count the cost or worry about repaying the debt. Other countries have more debt, so debt must be good, right? Especially for recurrent expenditure.

  327. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:02 pm

    “You mean in the way Labor were doing?”

    You don’t expect me to trust that figure do you? Here is some data projections from Swans “I have a surplus” budget from 2012-13

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/overview/html/overview_44.htm

    In the underlying cash balance column and i mean lying column, Wayne Swan predicted surplus budgets for the next 4 years of $1.5B, $2B, $5.3B and $7.5B.

    Of course Parliament burst out in laughter.

    What gets me about you lefties is that you stick some graph in my face and i am supposed to believe it. I believe nothing from the masters of deceit.

  328. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:02 pm

    Any way, it’s time for me to “retire” for the day, big weekend coming up, and beer won’t buy itself.

    Wonder when my pension will be getting here? 😆

    Oh, to be in Germany now 🙂

  329. Tom R permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:05 pm

    I believe nothing from the masters of deceit.

    You mean Treasury??

    Anyway, really gotta get that beer, cya alls 😉

  330. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:08 pm

    ‘It was worth saying again ‘

    Water off a duck’s back, comrade.

  331. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:10 pm

    “Which parallel universe do you live in, Walrus? “”

    Thanks for that Splatter………………I have clearly taken leave of my senses

  332. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:17 pm

    “…pick-jobs sound `wonderful` on a promotion site…”

    “…And, fruit picking might be enough to help bolster income for back-packers with savings…

    which is the case with the girl from egg’s link:

    “…I went from being an real estate agent for five years and owning my own property in London to fruit picking and living in a hostel…”

    But everyone else is just f**king whingeing. I’m no better or worse off (except via petrol excise) simply because I never received any welfare anyway plus due to neg gearing and super I’m no better or worse off. Even the deficit tax wont affect me.

    I think that was the point about the budget. The poor, the pensioners and the sick will be worse off while the wealthy and those like you who can avoid and restructure tax will be untouched. I was reading that over time the pensioners are even worse off because they are changing the way pensions are indexed, they will go from increases that keep them up with wages growth to CPI indexation which mean the wealthier self funded retiree will benefit from slower income growth, but the poorer ones will lose out over time. I can’t even imagine the fear of the pensioners who is still renting and has health problems [as most do] they’ll be eating once a day or it’s dog food.

    And I don’t knowingly tell fibs.

    seriously?
    i guess making shit up can be seen as not knowingly telling fibs if you squint your eyes and couldn’t care less about finding out any facts.

    I simply showed a case where a country was actually lowering their pension age. It isn’t surprising you didn’t like it…

    i don’t see why it can’t work, get all the over 55’s to shuffle out of the way and let the next generation come through. Too many 55-70 yo clogging up the system, snouts in the trough now, taking more than they are giving, full of tired, old ideas, move on.

    this is US, but since we’re going all the way with the teabags now.

    Why the multimillion dollar retirement is not for the middle class:
    http://www.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2014/feb/03/retirement-saving-study-fantasy-salary-millions

    …Saving enough is not the primary problem with our retirement system. The primary problem is that wages have been dropping for decades, leaving people with much less to save – especially people who live on far, far less than $150,000 a year. That’s largely because corporations are hoarding profits, raising CEO salaries and skimping on what they pay employees. Corporate executives have been the big beneficiaries of this trend, with a jump of 876% in pay between 1978 and 2011, as the New Yorker’s James Surowiecki pointed out. At the same time, corporations – and the goverment – have largely reduced or eliminated pension plans that provided a retirement backstop to millions of middle-class employees.

    If only we could impose the same kind of discipline on corporate executives as we do on the middle class, perhaps we’d have a real answer to the retirement problem…

    Our wage growth is the lowest on record.

    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/05/wages-growth-lowest-on-record-2/

  333. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:29 pm

    “Do you have a link for that.””

    I might surprise you…………………….Do you deny stating it ?

  334. May 30, 2014 12:29 pm

    ””’NO! If I had I would have been working all my life as a tradie””’

    That`s a great rant TB 🙂
    _______________________

    ””””I just never figured that it was the role of government to make the worse off worse off, and the better off better off…

    There’s just something fundamentally wrong about that.”””

    Exactly reb.

    Unfortunately, probably lost on `our` Teabags.
    _______________________

    ”””””””’People have simply had welfare handouts stripped from them after many here have been bleating about middle class welfare””””””’

    lt seems to me that there is much more bleating done when corporate welfare is even attempted to be stripped from the mega-rich blubbers, the system is already stacked against the poor, and for the wealthy. lt doesn`t need to be made even harsher for the bottom. #Teabags

  335. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:36 pm

    guess we’d better start marching to the US tune, wouldn’t want to be out of step!

    Obama to unveil historic climate change plan to cut US carbon pollution:

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/29/obama-unveil-historic-climate-plan-carbon-pollution

    …President Barack Obama will unveil a plan on Monday that will cut carbon pollution from power plants and promote cap-and-trade, undertaking the most significant action on climate change in American history.

    The proposed regulations Obama will launch at the White House on Monday could cut carbon pollution by as much as 25% from about 1,600 power plants in operation today, according to those claiming familiarity with the plan…

    obama 2013
    …”I refuse to condemn your generation and future generations to a planet that’s beyond fixing,” Obama said to a gathering of students…

    In australia we are so concerned and wrongly focused on leaving a piddling deficit to future generations whilst a global warming tsunami is rolling in unabated, this will wipe them out financially and environmentally. The silence is deafening.

  336. Sir Walrus of the 8% Gross Dividend Yield permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:45 pm

    “”……. lt doesn`t need to be made even harsher for the bottom……….”

    I have no problem with sheltering the poor from say a co-payment.

    But I do get annoyed by the whingeing of rioting students being asked to bear some FUTURE pain whilst they study for usually very well paid positions not to mention families on combined incomes of $180k plus bleating about not being able to go to Bali next year or the private school fees

  337. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 12:52 pm

    made an excerpt from your post more reflective of reality sb

    “…Then you borrow lots of money and and give heaps of free money to the already wealthy and environmental polluters, close down the manufacturing and renewables industry, poison all available water supplies, subsidise millionaire factories, and make everything a human being needs for survival ‘user pays’…”

  338. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 1:05 pm

    …But I do get annoyed by the whingeing of rioting students being asked to bear some FUTURE pain whilst they study for usually very well paid positions …

    Usually sprouted by those who enjoyed a completely free education or had parents pay their education costs for them.

    Education should be seen as an investment in the nations’s future not a cost, that is where your thinking is flawed. We give subsidies to so many industries as an investment in national growth, time to see our young people as a resource.

    …not to mention families on combined incomes of $180k plus bleating about not being able to go to Bali next year or the private school fees…

    Actually agree with you there, all private enterprise should be stand alone, no taxpayer support and then you’ll find education, health, pensioners and the poor will be much better resourced.

  339. May 30, 2014 1:19 pm

    unfortunately after ww1 and ww2, mankind didn`t learn the lesson `might-is-right` is actually wrong and chose to ignore the last chance to prevent future disaster regarding kyoto,

    mankind preferred to continue with their `consumer-farms`, which is basically what nations have been reduced to, mankind will end up going the way of the dinosaur, or very close to it, and they won`t need an asteroid strike either

  340. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 1:22 pm

    You moronic Lefties just seem to believe the World owes you a living from some endless bucket of money stashed away somewhere.

    No, we just believe that one generation should leave the next better off and those who make their wealth from selling our common wealth should pay some back to the nation. We believe we should faithfully repay the previous generation for the sacrifices and service given to our nation and look after them in their old age. An intergenerational faith should not be breached due to the greed of this one.

    Mining tax: it’s time for all Australians to realise they are being ripped off:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/19/mining-tax-its-time-for-all-australians-to-realise-they-are-being-ripped-off

    …Pal Haugerud, director general of the asset management in the department of the Norwegian ministry of finance, has explained Norway’s policy:

    “It is a fund for future generations, both current and future. And that’s a responsibility for us to make sure that not only this generation, but also future generations get their fair share of the wealth because it is a one off. It is a transformation of wealth. We used to have wealth beyond the North Sea and now we are transferring that into financial assets.”

    …The historian Philip Mirowski has argued the past three decades have been about using the powers of the state to divert more resources to the wealthy. In Australia’s case, a lot of the wealthiest do not even call Australia home. Meanwhile, all Australians are ripped off. It’s time to change that…

  341. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 1:52 pm

    Norway = Clever Country
    Australia = Dumb Country

    and it’s going to get even dumber as we move towards who can pay the most for education rather than investing in our brightest minds.

    The truth about the mining tax
    http://theaimn.com/2014/04/02/the-truth-about-the-mining-tax/

    …Most of our mining companies are majority foreign-owned and are receiving a huge windfall at the Australian taxpayer’s expense. Remember that these minerals are a finite resource – when they run out the money stops coming in. In 2001, mining companies paid approximately 40% of their profits as royalties to the state governments. Today they pay less than 20%. Clearly, there is a strong argument that the Australian people deserve to receive a greater share of today’s profits…

    …Professor Ross Garnaut said, when the tax was proposed, that it would be a test of whether difficult economic reform remained possible in Australia, or whether powerful interest groups now had too much sway over the political process. I guess we have our answer…

    …Mining shareholders will be smiling, a smile paid for by our children, our workers and our small business owners. Thanks Tony.

  342. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 30, 2014 1:59 pm

    I’m quite happy to see Tom R here. While he may be a dill and a bar racket, he provides his commentary with a little humour. Vociferous too.

  343. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 30, 2014 2:03 pm

    With regard to CW, it’s interesting that it only springs to life when someone like Neil pops in to provide a little challenge.

    In the absence of this, it’s empty. Obviously people just hover, also ready to swallow the bait that Neil or scaper provide.

  344. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 30, 2014 2:05 pm

    “always ready to swallow the bait “

  345. May 30, 2014 2:08 pm

    ”””and it’s going to get even dumber”””

    so the nation will be catering to kneel and dumpty`s comfort zone.?

  346. May 30, 2014 2:11 pm

    ”””Obviously people just hover,”””

    While others are `forced` to hover 🙂

  347. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 2:38 pm

    Chief Liberal Fundraiser Linked To Private College Donations:
    https://newmatilda.com/2014/05/30/chief-liberal-fundraiser-linked-private-college-donations

    …A private Sydney college, a former Liberal Party fundraiser in the sights of ICAC, and an $820 million industry windfall…

    Paul Krugman: Why Economics Failed
    http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/05/paul-krugman-why-economics-failed.html#.U4gA3XYhmKE.twitter

    justice denied:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-30/employers-convicted-of-negligence-over-truck-driver-death/5488650?section=act

  348. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 2:42 pm

    Seriously?

    Yes, otherwise I would be a liar on a small log on the banks of the Yarra.

  349. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 2:47 pm

    Share the pain……………….why should a cleaner paying tax not be spared whilst a precious Uni student bleats and whinges

    That’s the real point you are missing, Wally …. it’s not shared … you actually said it yourself …

    Perhaps for pensioners it should be lower with a lower cap.

    But everyone else is just f**king whingeing. I’m no better or worse off (except via petrol excise) simply because I never received any welfare anyway plus due to neg gearing and super I’m no better or worse off. Even the deficit tax wont affect me.

    And you don’t even see that negative gearing is “welfare” … why should you get a tax break for buying a second property when many can’t buy a home … if any should get a tax break it should be the first home buyers …

    See … the pain isn’t shared … you’re peddling crap …

    And why is it only Lefties … who receive welfare … do all the tory voters refuse it?

  350. May 30, 2014 2:48 pm

    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/05/wages-growth-lowest-on-record-2/

    These graphs have the following 3-categories,

    Private sector, public sector, and All sectors.

    The graphs would get a lot more interesting if they also had, Lowest-paid-5%, ceos-pay, mining-only, rest-without mining, as categories.

  351. Tom ofMelbourne permalink
    May 30, 2014 2:50 pm

    Young people probably need more education/preparation regarding entering the workforce.

    Government agencies do a decent job in extracting underpayment from employers. Most pay up pretty quickly rather than risk an annoying public servants auditing time and wages records.

    When starting a job, a youth should just keep their own record of their hours. There is really no great need to accept below award wages.

  352. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 2:51 pm

    ToM I haven’t seen scaper at the kaf in eons, I think he’s been sacked.

  353. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:09 pm

    And why is it only Lefties … who receive welfare … do all the tory voters refuse it?

    oh that’s an easy one TB. it’s all in a name.

    tax concessions and rent seeking industry handouts aren’t welfare.

    Forget middle-class welfare. Australia’s tax concessions are upper-class welfare
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/02/tax-concessions-upper-class-welfare

    …If politicians want to tackle “the age of entitlement”, they should start with regressive tax expenditures. Paring back the worst excesses in the tax code could reduce the deficit, improve inequality, and make the tax system more efficient. Yet whenever talk turns to trimming tax concessions, commentators cry “class war”. It’s enough to make a cynic suspect that all the criticism of “middle-class welfare” is just hollow rhetoric designed to mask an assault on social security for the poor…

  354. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:25 pm

    “ToM I haven’t seen scaper at the kaf in eons, I think he’s been sacked.

    They are over at the AIMN these days. I know i got banned from there yesterday for derailing the thread and telling lies. However i am allowed to post now. It must have just been a temporary sin bin.

    I get annoyed at being accused of telling lies because when i ask what the lie is, they never tell me.

    As for derailing the thread, nobody has to read what i post.

  355. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:25 pm

    I just noticed my reference to Tom R being a “bar racket ”

    Auto correct is annonying even if it is accurate on this occasion

    “Barracker”

  356. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:30 pm

    oh that’s an easy one TB. it’s all in a name.

    Its defending the indefensible, KL … that’s why the narkies come out …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Let me tackle each of these statements based upon personal experience, ToM …

    Young people probably need more education/preparation regarding entering the workforce.

    I disagree … because it depends on the work and the person involved … I know you may not believe it but some of us began work before we turned 15 … experience with a good supervisor (not a management super a job super) is worth its weight in learning and assessment gold … I specialised in competency based learning not walk, talk and chalk.

    Government agencies do a decent job in extracting underpayment from employers. Most pay up pretty quickly rather than risk an annoying public servants auditing time and wages records.

    Sort of … if they know about it and that’s what pay cheats rely on …

    … people will keep quiet to keep their jobs … we recently took on an IGA who was underpaying my grandson …

    … before, The Minister, became my office manager she worked for an American transmission company … she was not only underpaid but her leave loading was paid as a 1% pay increment … quite illegal … in the end we went to see the Dept of IR (yeah I knew them but )… they went through the business like a dose of salts …

    … in PNG her expat boss used her Work Permit to employ his wife … took him to the cleaners too …

    Both the last were called, Richard … we are very wary of Richards …

    When starting a job, a youth should just keep their own record of their hours. There is really no great need to accept below award wages.

    Everyone should keep their wage slip … but some managers don’t give one I discovered (also illegal) … personal records of hours work are difficult to use by the authorities as evidence … as for the last sentence – see above … not everyone has fall back support if the job goes … better to lose an hours pay than 40 …

  357. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:32 pm

    As for derailing the thread, nobody has to read what i post.

    Absofknlutely!

  358. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:37 pm

    ‘i guess making shit up can be seen as not knowingly telling fibs if you squint your eyes and couldn’t care less about finding out any facts.’

    Kitty comrade TomR took me out of context (typical hate media tactic) and highlighted the last sentence of this exchange with someone.

    ———

    ‘it also needs to be pointed out, this work is SEASONAL, SHORT-TERM employment at best, for most. There is NO `consistency` in the vast majority of these pick-jobs.’

    That’s why an avenue for seasonal guest workers should be encouraged. The Timorese are the most impoverished people in the world, surely we could reach out to them?

    Some here might say if agricultural guest workers can’t at least get the minimum wage then the fruit should rot. Likewise its far better for young unemployed Australians to lay around and get the dole rather than work on below minimum wages.

    Is this the consensus here?

    ———-

  359. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:41 pm

    TB, government regulators will chase up lost wages a year after an employee has left. They don’t even have to make the complaint while they’re working there.

    That’s why people should keep their own records if they’d with a dodgy employer.

  360. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:45 pm

    “And you don’t even see that negative gearing is “welfare” … ”

    Neg Gearing was around a long time before the recent Welfare Explosion…………….

    Tis you peddling crap

  361. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:47 pm

    ‘It must have just been a temporary sin bin.’

    It first became fashionable at Trash.

    ‘I get annoyed at being accused of telling lies because when i ask what the lie is, they never tell me.’

    I don’t honestly know what to make of it, the symptoms has been noticed here as well.

  362. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 3:49 pm

    When starting a job, a youth should just keep their own record of their hours. There is really no great need to accept below award wages…

    And what can they do about it? Most will just lump it or leave and they won’t go through the hassle of making complaints and claiming.

    There’s a wealth of naivety in the reality facing youth working conditions and wages and an inability for the young to speak up when exploited tomM. I think that very little is being done to weed out unscrupulous employers who prey upon young workers.

    Young workers often exploited: WA report
    http://www.workplaceinfo.com.au/human-resources-management/performance-management/young-workers-often-exploited-wa-report

    The study found young people are vulnerable because:
    – they often had less experience of the workplace and consequently a lower awareness of their employment rights and obligations
    – their level of knowledge about pay and conditions puts them at a distinct disadvantage when entering employment
    – they are predominately casual or part-time employees with less job security, lower training opportunities
    – they have lower expectations about their treatment in the labour market.

    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/casualisation-of-youth-employment-is-mortgaging-the-future-20140529-zrqoh.html

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-26/concern-voiced-about-exploitation-of-young-workers/5175180

  363. Tom o Melbourne permalink
    May 30, 2014 4:01 pm

    If there are contemporaneous records of hours, that will be regarded as good evidence to retrieve wages.

    Young people need to be informed about their employment rights. Work experience for 15/16 year olds is regarded as valuable, just as important is information about their rights in the workplace. It’s probably more important than some of the other esoteric stuff on the curriculum.

  364. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 4:07 pm

    Elite youth like tony abbott’s daughters will have jobs and careers handed to them on a platter. They will never feel exploited or unaware of their working rights because they will never need to.

    The kids of the poor, those aspiring to rise above welfare status and the working poor where parents have no avenues to pave the way for them are always ripe for exploitation. Even the kids of the middle classes have it tough. Kids are told do it or no job, it’s tough choices, knowing you are being exploited or nothing. I know that lots of young people don’t have the inner strength or supports to take the employers to task. Isn’t one of the first steps to ‘speak to the employer and try to sort it out yourself’
    Well, that’s an enormous barrier right at the start, a great power imbalance. Who invites abuse, threats and intimidation or getting an immediate sacking? Most of the places that exploit the youth are anti union and actively discourage any union protection.

  365. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 4:07 pm

    “”… you actually said it yourself …””

    Ahem…………………actually no I didn’t

    I basically said you cant take welfare away from those who have never received it

  366. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 4:10 pm

    And don’t ya just love the quaint phrasing that the Public Service now employs

    They say “Tax Expenditures”

    Which actually means the amount of your income they allow you to keep

    Unfucking Believable !

  367. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 4:10 pm

    I get annoyed at being accused of telling lies because when i ask what the lie is, they never tell me.’

    no-one can be bothered, it’s just too painfully repetitious and leads to talking in circles, which is just what you are seeking.

    best to ignore.

  368. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 4:15 pm

    And if you don’t believe this joint has gone bonkers consider this……

    “A government-wide analysis of the welfare system has discovered this: a single person ………can earn a grand total of $54,417 a year in payments from the government — as in the taxpayer — without working. That’s net. Not gross. In other words, such a person is effectively earning as much as a worker on a gross salary of more than $70,000 a year.”

    “………..To fund this welfare payment for one person, the government must take the tax paid by three single workers with no kids and receiving no benefits earning an about average wage of $75,000 a year.”

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/the-tentacles-of-welfare/story-fni0cwl5-1226936281440

  369. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 30, 2014 4:15 pm

    “no-one can be bothered, it’s just too painfully repetitious and leads to talking in circles, which is just what you are seeking.”

    You would think just once they could be bothered. The reason they do not tell me is that no lie has been spoken except calling me a liar.

    And the falsehoods by lefties. Unbelievable.

    “Then you borrow lots of money and and give heaps of free money to everyone, close down the mining industry, fill on the evil dams, subsidise unicorn farming, and make everything free. At no stage do you count the cost or worry about repaying the debt. “

    SB

    Yep. That describes leftie la la land perfectly.

  370. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 4:25 pm

    I basically said you cant take welfare away from those who have never received it

    neither can you take tax concessions away from those receiving rich people’s welfare – much screeching and frothing-at-mouth!

    http://www.wealthprofessional.com.au/news/slash-superannuation-tax-concessions-186797.aspx

    But The Australia Institute says that the tax concessions, most of which are being claimed by people able to afford early retirements if they choose, need the most urgent attention as they will soon cost more than the entire age pension.

    oh wait, they do take the ‘welfare’ from those at the bottom!

    http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/2014/05/18/inequity-heart-retirment-reforms/

    But rather than address the inequities in super tax concessions, the government plans to increase them by scrapping the Low Income Superannuation Contribution (LISC) which enables Australians earning up to $37,000 per year to receive a tax rebate of up to $500.

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/04/04/how-our-super-steals-from-the-poor-to-give-to-the-rich/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

  371. Tom ofMelbourne permalink
    May 30, 2014 4:44 pm

    Neil, that lot hanker for partisan challenge, politics for them is only ALP vs Liberals.

    You very kindly provide them with plenty of talking points. Without you, it’s *crickets*

  372. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 5:01 pm

    So many hypotheticals there walrus, but no actual real life examples of anyone receiving that amount of welfare, a good example of downward envy baiting though.

    here are some comments to that piece though:

    There are no $70k welfare recipients – the ‘Tele cannot come up with a single one, otherwise, like disabled people the other day, they would be splashed right across the paper with a giant red label – ‘Bludger!’…

    Perhaps the bludgers are the ‘Tele journo’s who come up with these hypotheticals without bothering to back up their assertions with an actual, you know, real live person!

    Charley 11 hours ago
    I am part of an unemployed couple and receive a total of $12,266 per year and while grateful for the payment I wouldn’t call it generous and I would much rather be employed. In fact my payment is only 16% of my wage when I used to have a job. But as long as jobs go offshore, foreign workers fly in and rampant age discrimination continues n Australia, I don’t see me working any time soon….

  373. May 30, 2014 5:13 pm

    ”””””””””””’you don’t even see that negative gearing is “welfare” … why should you get a tax break for buying a second property when many can’t buy a home … if any should get a tax break it should be the first home buyers …

    the pain isn’t shared … you’re(#usual_suspects) peddling crap””””””’

    #Fully agree with TB. Neg-gearing is `gifting` tax-breaks to the `have-somethings` who have more wealth/income, and thus, can push house-prices higher and out of the reach of the `have-not`s, only fully willfully blind imbeciles refuse to see this. Ditto for corporations buying-up the houses too.

  374. May 30, 2014 5:18 pm

    yep armchair, ””Charley 11 hours ago”” sounds exactly like several folk l know, all want to be back in work, not receiving the welfare pittance

  375. His Royal Highness King Tony of The House of Yarra permalink
    May 30, 2014 5:24 pm

    “A government-wide analysis of the welfare system has discovered this: a single person ………can earn a grand total of $54,417 a year in payments from the government — as in the taxpayer — without working.”

    There’s a mistake in that sentence: the word “earn”.

  376. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 5:31 pm

    “”Elite youth like tony abbott’s daughters will have jobs and careers handed to them on a platter.”” – KL

    “”…..a good example of downward envy baiting though.”” – KL

    One word for you……………………………….Hypocrite

  377. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 5:44 pm

    Gloria the sex line worker would also be a good example of baiting too. Funny how she became a sex line worker under Rudd/Gillard but didn’t complain then.

    Her story was proven to be complete and utter bullshit not by the LNP but by the various pharmacists that said as much

    And Vilma or whatever name that idiot was who was later found to be a Rudd campaign worker.

    That’s baiting………………………..just use total fiction

  378. May 30, 2014 5:47 pm

    ”””””One word for you……Hypocrite”””””””

    clearly you can`t read,

    ”””””””abbott’s daughters will have jobs and careers handed to them on a platter””””””’

    #not to mention around 60K of `education` gifted to bunny-rabbit, by a mr-rabbit groupie,

    #l will take a stab in the dark, and bet your balls blubbers, armchair and/or her kids have never been `gifted` 60K of `anything` in their lives,

    #that is not ””’downward envy””’, no matter how`ya slice`n dice it

    #what it IS, is disclosing the trough-snouting

  379. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 5:53 pm

    TB, government regulators will chase up lost wages a year after an employee has left. They don’t even have to make the complaint while they’re working there.

    That’s why people should keep their own records if they’d with a dodgy employer.

    Correct … was my comment above that difficult to understand?

    FYI … people who are targeted don’t know what you and I know … and often don’t have people like you and me to ask …

  380. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 5:55 pm

    “”…..a good example of downward envy baiting though.”” – KL
    One word for you……………………………….Hypocrite

    that’s not upward envy baiting, that’s called nepotism and corruption.

    Wouldn’t that type of corruption distort a free and fair market? or is that only for others?

    Perhaps you’ll accuse all those other students denied any chance to apply for a secret scholarship of just plain envy because they had to work hard and pay for their own careers?

  381. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 5:57 pm

    Neg Gearing was around a long time before the recent Welfare Explosion…………….

    How silly of me … so was the dole … so was medicare … so was … the pension …

    What a fkn dumb defense … next you’ll be telling me that family trusts aren’t welfare …

    or did you mean the recent Upper Middle Class Welfare Explosion!

    Shakes head …

  382. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:06 pm

    One word for you……………………………….Hypocrite

    And you, Wally ……………………………… ignorant (in the true sense – see below)

    https://www.google.com.au/#q=ignorant

  383. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:19 pm

    Off topic …further to my previous comment, allowing seasonal work for the Timorese would be beneficial, its Green Policy.

    http://wa.greens.org.au/files/Timor_Leste.pdf

  384. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:25 pm

    ‘Wouldn’t that type of corruption distort a free and fair market? or is that only for others?’

    There is noble cause corruption, which has severely distorted the market, and oddly enough it appears to cross political boundaries.

  385. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:25 pm

    “”………..that’s called nepotism and corruption””

    Got some proof have ya ?

    If you do I expect to hear it soon

    I’ll just wait here……………………patiently……………………….but I wont hold my breath

  386. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:29 pm

    TB

    I suppose you are aware that negative gearing applies to any income producing asset.

    Or are you just conveniently pig ignorant of that ?

  387. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:29 pm

    …#l will take a stab in the dark, and bet your balls blubbers, armchair and/or her kids have never been `gifted` 60K of `anything` in their lives,…

    sadly that is true 😉

    One word for you……Hypocrite

    huh? how so?

    That is a good example of how the wealthy have completely lost their moral compass. A scream of ‘class war’ when their enormous, taken-for-granted privilege is pointed out.

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/privilege-begets-privilege-when-elites-are-first-in-the-queue-20140526-zrooy.html#ixzz330QGjfWk

  388. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:31 pm

    “”FYI … people who are targeted don’t know what you and I know … and often don’t have people like you and me to ask …””

    Or they could pick up a f**king telephone

  389. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:34 pm

    Got some proof have ya ?

    did she receive it or not?
    Did anyone else get to compete for it so that merit can be determined?

  390. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:37 pm

    Nice link KL

    Of course funny the article didn’t make any mention that Louise Abbott got the job while the ALP was in power.

    But hey that would have made the article quite meaningless wouldn’t it ?

    I’m still waiting for that proof of corruption you mentioned

  391. Walrus permalink
    May 30, 2014 6:39 pm

    “”Did anyone else get to compete for it so that merit can be determined?””

    Yes

    Where’s your proof otherwise ?

  392. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:05 pm

    Of course funny the article didn’t make any mention that Louise Abbott got the job while the ALP was in power.

    there is no political barrier to privilege.

    Yes

    liar, no-one else did, no one else was asked to. the proof is in the other students stating no option to apply for any. The only other person to be given a scholarship was the owner’s daughter.

  393. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:13 pm

    Sometimes I wonder about Abbott, scoring own goals like this seems politically naive.

  394. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:14 pm

    There is noble cause corruption, which has severely distorted the market, and oddly enough it appears to cross political boundaries.

    Where do you fkn live, egg … your comments are becoming more bizarre each day …

    WTF does “There is noble cause corruption” … mean? If ever there was an oxymoron that has to be the daddy of them all …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I suppose you are aware that negative gearing applies to any income producing asset.

    No, I didn’t … I thought it only applied to property … admit to ignorance but not being a pig … so .. you think that makes negative gearing OK … ?

    Now I know that its even more fkn foul! And Rich Upper Class Welfare …

    Have you seen Elysium?

    Or they could pick up a f**king telephone

    More fkn arrogant ignorance … what would you do if an employee complained about you?

    No fudging now we have you here on record … 🙂 You just don’t get it because you’ve never, ever been there … well some of us who can comment HAVE!

    Complain … when I have (actually had) a mortgage and two kids … WTF to!

    And at the time … didn’t know what to say and consider today … who do I call?

    And Abbott brought back the 15th Century Sirs and Dames ! Indefensible! Its 2014 FFS! And nothing has changed!

  395. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:17 pm

    Of course funny the article didn’t make any mention that Louise Abbott got the job while the ALP was in power.

    And works under an ex-coalition chief of staff! Duh!

  396. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:19 pm

    Sometimes I wonder about Abbott, scoring own goals like this seems politically naive.

    There are so many, egg, which one in particular?

    Or are you just getting punch drunk?

  397. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:27 pm

    ‘WTF does “There is noble cause corruption” … mean?’

    I’m not in a position to say, the Thought Police are everywhere, you could google it.

  398. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:28 pm

    ‘There are so many, egg, which one in particular?’

    His daughter’s scholarship was not good politics.

  399. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:31 pm

    On TV …

    Queensland’s power bills are set to rise an average of $200 pa … 13% rise … but if the Carbon Tax is repealed it will be 5% … yeah …

    And in breaking news, The Minister, doesn’t have faith in ANY politician since Clivey was caught out at dinner with Malky … that is fkn serious shit! Talk about grumpy! And I’m the fkn pensioner! (Well sort of)

  400. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:38 pm

    I’m not in a position to say, the Thought Police are everywhere, you could google it.

    You fkn wrote it! You’re making shite up again!

    His daughter’s scholarship was not good politics.

    Nor was his OTHER daughter’s appointment!

    Not really standing on yer own two feet …

    Ironically I had a personal policy of never employing family or friends (yes The Minister was an exception – that worked) … but my mother once asked if I would mind her applying for a job at the company that I had started my apprenticeship with (at the time I was a manager) … I said I would prefer she didn’t … and she didn’t …

  401. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:42 pm

    In NSW the gas bills are set to go up 20%, its a free world market, but the good news is that electricity bills have sharply reduced. Also, house insurance has come down markedly, so I’m assuming we are no longer paying for the Brisbane flood.

  402. egg permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:44 pm

    ‘You fkn wrote it! You’re making shite up again!’

    Its a weather yarn.

  403. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:45 pm

    http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/power-queensland-government-timeofuse-tariff-scheme-only-attracts-250-homeowners/story-fnii5v6w-1226936430761

    so I’m assuming we are no longer paying for the Brisbane flood.

    Don’t you mean GOD’s flood … guess who should pay – begins with C …

  404. TB Queensland permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:46 pm

    Its a weather yarn.

    AHHH … more BS!

  405. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 30, 2014 7:47 pm

    walrus, do you think that people in public office should ensure that they and their family members don’t accept expensive gifts from people who are lobbying them for funding or favours? [abbott budget has legislation for private educators to receive $840 mil in taxpayer funding]. francis abbott will be a direct recipient of this new funding, she has been given a job there while she waits for it [unknown position, only role not stated on the company records].

    there’s obviously been some PR advice lately [my bold]

    The Whitehouse scholarship saga rolls on. Chris Graham brings you the latest developments in a story that just won’t quit:

    https://newmatilda.com/2014/05/29/no-scholarship-no-fees-paid-either-admits-whitehouse

    …The owner of the Whitehouse Institute of Design – the Sydney college embroiled in a furore over the awarding of a secret $60,000 scholarship to the daughter of Prime Minister Tony Abbott – has denied claims the only other time the scholarship has been awarded was to her own daughter.

    But Leanne Whitehouse, owner of the Whitehouse Institute of Design has conceded that her daughter Billie did attend the college, and paid no fees for her education…

    …“She was not awarded a scholarship but studied here free of charge.”… [now fits with the students claims of no scholarships offered]

    Ms Whitehouse said other private tertiary providers had similar arrangements for their children, and for the children of senior staff and teachers…[but how does non family and non staff/teacher’s family, frances abbott fit in with that scenario]

    …In other developments, New Matilda also revealed on Studio 10 that the Prime Minister and his wife Margaret attended a function at Whitehouse in December last year, as guests of Whitehouse.

    Relatives and friends of students were told they had to pay $60 to attend the same event, which was staged, in part, to showcase the work of graduating students.

    Prior to the event, more than 250 students signed a petition to Whitehouse seeking a waiving of the fee, on the basis that tuition costs were already high. The college refused.

    But Whitehouse insiders revealed to New Matilda that two parents did not have to pay – Mr and Mrs Abbott…

    there’s more to come tomorrow:

    * New Matilda will be reporting a major development in our ongoing investigation into private college funding tomorrow morning.

  406. Walrus permalink
    May 31, 2014 12:28 am

    “. The only other person to be given a scholarship was the owner’s daughter.”

    How dare she ??????

    Proof of corruption please

    I’m even asking politely

  407. Walrus permalink
    May 31, 2014 12:32 am

    “But Whitehouse insiders revealed to New Matilda that two parents did not have to pay – Mr and Mrs Abbott…”

    Oh my dog

    How scandalous !

  408. egg permalink
    May 31, 2014 8:30 am

    ‘TWO-THIRDS of the migrant workers on 457 visas have taken jobs that did not have to be advertised to Australians.

    ‘As unions and employers wrestle over Australia’s reliance on foreign labour, new Immigration Department statistics reveal just one in three of the work visas granted last year was subject to “labour market testing” to prove no Australian could do the job.

    ‘The figures also show half of Australia’s migrant workers are recruited onshore, with one in every 20 backpackers last year ­receiving a 457 visa to stay working here for four more years.’

    Natasha Bita / Oz

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