New Data Confirms The Australian Lied about Tobacco Consumption

Do thinking people actually still read this pile of Murdoch trash? NO! Can’t be they’re not thinking if they do!

“Glad we are all in furious agreement then”

Not really.

http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/06/17/abc-admits-christian-kerr-is-correct/

really 😉

https://theguttertrash.com/2014/05/30/rostrum-toons-and-loons-edition/#comment-60622

‘Tobacco should be banned … period … anyone that defends the shit is quite simply a Dickhead™’

Prohibition is not a solution, its better to tax the weed and reap the benefits. That’s why they should introduce plain packaging for alcohol and tax it to the hilt, to restrict young people getting into the habit.

Mature drinkers will gladly accept this impost in the interest of good order, a safer and healthier society.

I don’t care about Tobacco. It has never interested me.

I do however have a problem with red wine. I can’t stop drinking it for some reason. Aldi now sells Precious Earth for $2.69 at the checkout and i cannot resist.

I know no self respecting wine person would buy something for $2.69 however i do.

“”….make tobacco a prescription only item””

Kitty I still believe that.

However it does not get rid of illegal imports and a bit of a blackmarket but unlike a booze blackmarket normal people would just go to the chemist counter and get issued with a certain number of sticks per week

All you do is proclaim that after 18 June 2014 you need to have been born before 18 June 1996 to be issued with a cigarette prescription. No one after that date can legally become a smoker…………..or something like that.

Moving on from tobacco and alcohol addictions to food.

‘The Democrats got it wrong in 1999 in their great GST compromise. No GST on fresh food, they argued. It is unfair to low-income earners. And if there is no GST on fresh food, people will be encouraged to buy it, which will be better for their health.

‘Wrong. Wrong.

‘Food habits have not changed. The exemption favours the wealthy.’

Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/a-direct-look-at-gst-bogey-may-dissipate-phobia-20130816-2s2fb.html#ixzz34scAzOuI

‘subsidised by those who fill their hungry kids and themselves with carbs straight from Maccas.’

Yes.

Neil is practicing self deprecation.

Outwitting dullards is good fun and harmless.

The reason he did this? To get the “right” answer, no doubt.

“Because that is how they have always determined the number of smokers.”

Got a link for that?

😉 *clink*

Don’t worry about Big Tobacco. The latest “industry” leftoids want to pre-emptively demonise is Big Marijuana.

Innit.

Not really. The Australian article was based on the (increased) number of sticks sold.

So, the number of smokers is still going down, admitted by everyone, yet the cancer lobby reckons the “industry volumes” (not sure if that is the actual number sold, or ordered) is increasing?

But, with the numbers of actual smokers decreasing still, any figure, no matter how rubbery, isn’t going to prove, as the oz stated, that the plain packaging wasn’t working.

Even your link to catalaxxy, using their rubbery figures, disagree with the oz

the early evidence isn’t very supportive of the policy.

That sure aint the same as Labor’s plain packaging fails as cigarette sales rise

In fact, the early evidence, on every measure except the one dodgy one the oz latched onto, which could or could not mean anything, is that, the numbers are still decreasing across the board.

Something the oz (and cancer creators) just cannot stomach it appears, for which reason, we can only guess at.

But this comment from BATA perked my interest.

Click to access 1420_bata.pdf

Further, the number of cigarettes smoked on a daily basis declined at a rate of -1.9 per cent in the
five years leading up to plain packaging, while it slowed to -1.4 per cent after green packs hit
shelves.

So, on the one hand, the oz is claiming that the number of cigarettes sold (or “industry volumes” whatever that is) is growing, yet BATA confirm that the number of cigarettes smoked a day is decreasing.

None of the figures the cancer industry put out seem to correlate with each other.

Which I guess is why we use ABS 😉

Got a link for that?

You should know me by now tosy 😉

http://thekouk.com/blog/ms-sloan-and-the-volume-of-tobacco-consumed.html#.U6A2u3bpASQ

“Well, the figures do allow us to precisely let us know what is happening to the consumption of tobacco and cigarettes. Sorry Ms Sloan, but the figures I used are the chain volume or quantity measures, as was stated several times in the initial post, which is, by definition the VOLUME of tobacco and cigarette consumed by the household sector on a quarterly basis back to 1959. This is a pretty basic misunderstanding for Ms Sloan when it comes to the construct of the national accounts by the Australian Bureau of Statistics.”

Actually, this is a pretty basic understanding by the Kouk. The “chain volume” figure used by the ABS is a measure only of $ Millions spent, not the number of sticks consumed. The ABS never addresses the number of sticks consumed, and $ Millions spent can never quantify this.

*misunderstanding

We have a triumverate.

The line between the old and the young infringes on both.

Pretty much what this argument is about. Will hiding-in-plain-sight i.e. “plain packaging” curtail usage? Too early to tell, despite TomR’s and Teh Kouk’s protestations.

You misunderstand completely again tosy.

I am not claiming, and I don’t think the kouk is either specifically, that plain packaging is working (personally, I think it is too early to tell). What I am saying is that the data, to date, does not really show one way or the other. The oz claimed that one small subset of data, from a dubious source, that does not seem to match ANY other data available, even their own, is PROOF that it has failed. That is most obviously not true.

Also, in your dismissal of the ABS measurement, and blind acceptance of the cancer creators measurement, I hope you do not forget that “cigarette sticks” come in many sizes and quality, both in relation to how quickly they burn, and how much actual tobacco is in them. This is particularly true for cheaper ciggies, that burn much faster.

So many uncertainties, that have not (as far as we know) been addressed in the figures used by the oz in their assumption.

Me, I’ll stick with the measurements that have been usedfor years. That way we can get a better picture over time of what is happening.

The real measure of success here though will be the rate of people taking it up, as this is who the plain packaging is aimed at. I haven’t seen that anywhere in this “debate”

In essence, the oz has lied again, not specifically with the numbers they used (dodgy as they are) but with hte verdict they drew from such a meaningless figure, as the ABC and many others has shown.. And yet you still defend them? And as an added bonus, continue to misrepresent what I am saying.

SA also saw a huge influx of bikies accessing back yard growers looking for a quick buck.

The bikies have done very well out of that law thank you very much 😉

‘ANTI-smoking measures are driving a boom in cheap cigarettes, with smokers buying more cigarettes from the lowest market segment and, industry data ­suggests, pushing up sales and frustrating health policies.

‘Neilsen data indicates that 42.3 per cent of all cigarettes now purchased are priced at less than $15 a pack — a rise from 25.6 per cent of the market in 2011 and 35.2 per cent at the end of last year.’

Oz

The Kouk has his article up. Have fun with it peeps. Real life calls 😉

http://thekouk.com/blog/smoking-fact-deniers-out-in-force.html#.U6DBjLHMpGN

I mean the whole Big Tobacco thing is ridiculous.. These fucking drug cartels can deny all they want, its not like they have a history of denial that there product is a carcinogenic killer that would not get to 1st base if submitted or approval. These fuckers are worse than smack dealers, just as immoral and have the libertarians on their side. Plane packaging works.

I think Walrus’s proposition is fantastic and I am in 100% agreeance, Medical prescription not on the PBS. The more expensive and harder it is to get with the most hassle, the more people will be free of theis monkey. People are nothing compared to the drain on taxpayers from smokers… yeah they pay tax blah blah, but they unnecessarily clog up the health system, something the big tobacco robber baron cartel pushers deny.

The Bikies got most of their money for the speed trade from Pot. Hydro is dangerous and filled with cenegenics ect…it has been proliferated by the illegal trade. I’m not a huge dope smoker but everyone knows that bush bud is the best, a nice cookie, sprinkled over your pasta or in a lovely tea with some splif scones..

The prescription for smoking is a good idea*

I’m not in favour of simple legalisation of grass, there is too much evidence of it’s effects on mental health. I’m quite happy for it also to be available by prescription for medical treatment. Legal status confers legitimacy and this isn’t in the public interest.

*Medical prescription combined with the $7 co-payment is an even more effective deterrent.

The Segment in Question
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4026465.htm

(Why can’t responsible permaculturalists grow tobacco as a traditional and natural pesticide?)

‘I’m not in favour of simple legalisation of grass, there is too much evidence of it’s effects on mental health.’

Certainly for those with a predisposition to mental illness, but for the great majority its benign. There is also a strong link between alcohol abuse and mental health, just sayin’.

Another day, another broken promise

A program which helps Aboriginal people transition back into society after release from prison has been axed by the Abbott Government, breaking a Coalition commitment to maintain frontline services in the wake of significant cuts to Indigenous affairs spending.

https://newmatilda.com/2014/06/17/abbott-govt-breaks-promise-black-legal-services

The oz, instead of correcting it’s lies, just lies more

The "Heartless Nation", proudly sponsored by Big Tobacco.
via: @michaelkoziol http://t.co/qzBrK0mORE—
John (@John_Hanna) June 17, 2014

Nowhere in this “debate” has anyone produced evidence that The Australian’s claims – regarding increased number of sticks sold – are bogus. In other word’s, that they “lied”, as has been Tom R’s constant mantra.

The Health Department, which weighed into this debate today, says the following:

“Question: Have tobacco sales increased since the introduction of tobacco plain packaging on 1 December 2012?
Answer: Tobacco sales data are not publicly available.”

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/tobacco-kff

“hey then deduced, from this one narrow set of rubbery figures that the plain packaging wasn’t working. THAT was the lie.”

Nobody can prove that plain packaging has worked, so nobody can prove The Australian is wrong. Hence, no lie. Bold, debatable statement, maybe, but not a lie.

“Nobody can prove that plain packaging has worked, so nobody can prove The Australian is wrong.””

Precisely………………….!

It might be a factor…………………..it might be the only factor………………………it might one part of a number of factors (i.e. excise increases, price competition, stocking variabilities,) but no single factor can be proven on its own

“Nobody can prove that plain packaging has worked, so nobody can prove The Australian is wrong.””

Precisely………………….!

WOW

I AGREE!

Then why does the oz continue to say that this meaningless number (which flies in the face of ALL other available data) continue with the LIE that “Labor’s plain packaging fails as cigarette sales rise”

That is not an opinion, it is stated as fact in a news article. It is quite obviously incorrect, as the link you just put up showed. In fact, it could have been the thing that kept the numbers going down. Who knows? NOBODY. Yet the oz pretends to tell us they do because of some rubbery figures that could just have been made up.

They are full of shit, they are charlatans, and they continue to LIE to their readers on this subject (along with many others)

The falsity of their claim has been highlighted, yet not only do they not retract the claim, they have bunkered down and continued to mangle data in order to try and maintain the lie.

Bias gone crazy

Nanny Roxon? WTF? “Roxon’s legislative legacy is monumental in political terms, credit where credit is due.

Ask yourself this question… if it hasn’t worked why are those fucking immoral assassins @ Big Tobacco so postally feral on it?

No doubt other factors are at play, with price a large consideration to the bottom line.
The Very fact that this shit is on the front page of the Un-straylin is empirical proof that it may well be not only working, but mortally wounding their profits in a precedent that will have a domino effect around the world…

Take their denial as a big fat Yes, because sure a shit they are not going to release one iota of info that is going to derail their mantra of nicotine goodness, nanny state malarkey.

“”… if it hasn’t worked why are those fucking immoral assassins @ Big Tobacco so postally feral on it?””

I’m not saying it hasn’t assisted. But Kouks is carrying on as though its the only thing that mattered in that period. And TomR is feeding that delusion.

I’m quite happy to see Big Tobacco cop it in the neck

what beats me is the pig-headed defence of the Oz …

Well 2+2 = IPA.. An IPA stooge writes an article for Big Backy on the front page no less and it is smashed into oblivion by the anvil of truth.. What’s left to do? Eat shit and play the man. There is no doubt, as Walrus pointed out, that other contributing factors are in play but Plain Packaging is a mortal body blow that will have serious repercussions around the world as a precedent just as those fucktards saying “No it don’t do nuffin, its totally harmless” before congress did…

I would like to point out that The IPA is the knitting circle that started the modern Liberal party.. Set up by Packer and Murdoch SNR and Lang Hancock among others… just sayin

“There is also a strong link between alcohol abuse and mental health, just sayin’.”

There’s a link between tobacco and drugs (prescription and others) and mental health too, pretty much abuse whatever they can when in mental torment.

“Nowhere in this “debate” has anyone produced evidence that The Australian’s claims – regarding increased number of sticks sold – are bogus.”

Have the tobacco companies released the raw data so that their claim can be independently tested? That would be the best way to prove or disprove the claim.

I see James Ashby has dropped his appeal two weeks before trial – no surprise there.

They read it to keep up their anger levels Neil.

Logic gets them fired up……………………………..LOL

“…(including excise and customs duty)….””

Yeah, customs duty is down because you can now only purchase 50 sticks upon re-entering Australia as opposed to 250 sticks prior to 2012.

Ask any smoking tourist.

And then they wonder why Rupert has 70% of the market.

Squeals big contribution.. sticking up for a Cash for comment IPA bullshit for Big Tobacco thats nothing more than propaganda swathed in Lies on the front page of a News flagship losing money hand over fist… masquerading as Journalism denounced unanimously from every quarter in the Country….

Gee theres empirical proof of why Murdoch has 70% of the market in a well constructed analysis… wow how underwhelming 🙄

The question is, why is the oz lying so loudly and so obviously in defense of cancer creators? Does their hatred of any successful Labor policy run so deep?

People read The Australian.

DOH!

People read The Australian.

Well around 14% less than last year and its no wonder when they print this type of contemptible shit masquerading as journalism.

http://mumbrella.com.au/news-corps-australian-newspaper-revenues-fall-350m-three-times-fairfax-179273

‘The oz seems to thing creating cancer is akin to AGW Denial. They are just as willfully stupid, and blatantly dishonest.’

Hmmm…..speaking on behalf of the Denialati we have no connection to big tobacco, oil or coal. As for who is dishonest and wilfully stupid, the irony burns.

The Guardian is shouting for a Double D election, which is OK in our book. Bring it on!

Your obsession with hate media is up with Neil’s The Howard Years, maintain your rage comrade.

Murdoch lies

I AGREE!

But do you still believe that some rubbery figures from the tobacco industry show that “Labor’s plain packaging fails as cigarette sales rise ”

Or do you accept the remaining data that shows, if anything, that the policy is actually bolstering all of the other activities that continue to drive down the rate of smoking?

Hmm, about 1 in 200 people (Mon-Fri) buy The Australian. On Saturdays this surges to about 1 in 100.

It gets a lot of attention for a rag that is hardly scanned by anyone.

“So, you agree that the oz is lying when it says that this dubious data confirms that the policy is failing? It’s a simple question, do you have a simple answer?”

I’ve already answered this one.

https://theguttertrash.com/2014/06/17/new-data-confirms-the-australian-lied-about-tobacco-consumption/#comment-62383

That’s not answering my question, that’s just bringing up the straw-man of dueling data sets. All that confirms is that nobody knows what the specific little data set the oz is mangling actually is. BUT, all other data shows a continuing decline in smoking, at odds with their figures. So my question still remains.

Do you agree that the oz is wrong to claim that the policy has failed because of this one set of tobacco sponsored figures?

I will put my new Texan Hat on the fact that Squeal would not even come close to understanding any of the Kouks economic analysis as:
There’s the Kouk
A skilled and talented economist with over 25 years experience in treasury and the high end private sector who cuts through bulshit like butter…

and

There’s Squeal

An economic Nobody living in the past henpecking bullshit with cntC CntV childish parroting of the worst economic managers in Australian politics..the fiberals.

Here’s a challenge squeal; instead of your normal monotonous bullshit.. Pick any article written by the Kouk and prove him wrong..any article you like, your call. Lets see you put up or shut the fuck up.

GO THE BLUES !!!!

“That’s not answering my question”

Yes, it is. It’s just not the answer you want.

“Even if WMO agrees, I will still not pass on the data. We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it.” ~ Phil Jones

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/memo/climatedata/uc3502.htm

l have no doubt Limited-News is peddling the corporate tobacco songbook, to influence Ireland? to not go `plain-pack`, of course Limited-News is bullshit. l would just point-out there is NO MEASURE What-So-Ever of the black-market, and still reckon the has been a transfer of smokers onto the black-product.

TB was spouting `prohibition` up-thread, which is a guaranteed failure, as all prohibition is. Take a look at what is going-on in the-usa with choof. Colorado has legalized it to some extent, along with other states `decriminalizing` user quantities. Another state will be legalizing choof too, Washington or Oregon? l forget which, and that state wants its coffers to fill, just as Colorado`s coffer has on choof-tax.

Stephen Koukoulas is not to be trusted. he twists figures. Here is an example

http://thekouk.com/blog/more-facts-behind-the-howard-government-s-debt-elimination.html#.U6Gm_YUiit8

“The $96 billion “Labor debt” inherited by the Howard Government in 1996 comprised $39.9 billion of Fraser Government debt that carried through the Hawke/Keating period meaning that the true level of Labor debt in 1996 was $56 billion. To pay that $56 billion off, the Howard Government sold almost $72 billion of Government assets meaning the move to negative net debt was not really due to any miraculous and bold fiscal settings, but owed everything to a series of asset sales.”

Koukoulas says that in 1996 $39.9B of the $96B debt that Howard/Costello inherited was Fraser govt debt left over from 1983. ie 40%

Govt debt in 1983 was $16B not $39.9B

Koukoulas also says most of Hawke/Keating debt was paid off by asset sales. Anybody could do that Koukoulas proclaims. But Kouk conveniently forgets about the $80B in the Future Fund. Where did that $80B come from Kouk??

In fact Costello ran $100B in surplus budgets AND $72B of asset sales. So Costello saved $100B+$72B= $172B. In fact i think Costello saved more. This meant he could pay off $96B of debt and have $80B in the FF.

Koukoulas is not stupid. He willfully tells lies. He is the worst liar i have ever seen.

‘Several busts took place recently in Sydney and Melbourne, with almost 100 million illegal cigarettes seized by Customs and Border Protection.

‘The amount of illegal tobacco in Newcastle was small compared with that recorded in capital cities, with the study finding that the consumption of illegal product had soared to 13.9per cent nationally, its highest rate ever.’

Newcastle Herald

Gillard shows all class again. tabot will go down as a petty, vindictive individual. Gillards legacy will be far more generous, particularly in the eyes of those not clouded by murdochs poison.

Gillard says: “Our aim is systemic change where donor governments are playing their role, they are putting money into education. Developing country governments are stepping up and investing more of their own resources and education and we make sure that we are looking for all of the children in that nation to be in school.”

She is offered the opportunity to lay the boot into the present Government, but, as I said, all class.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2014/05/julia-gillard-better-education-2014516142010676753.html

I have it on good authority that the editor is going to give you a hate media fred of your own, though probably not a cone of silence.

I have it on good authority that the editor is going to give you a hate media fred of your own

Is that because I am commenting about the lies the oz is telling about plain packaging on a thread titled “New Data Confirms The Australian Lied about Tobacco Consumption”? 😯

You still remain an idiot egg.

tabot proves he’s gutless at the core

Struggling in the polls, the Abbott Government has baulked at pulling its first double dissolution trigger, claiming voters want it to “get on with the job” rather than rush to another election.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/24270689/abbott-baulks-at-poll-trigger/

ROFL

“They’re all cut from the same lying mould”

Too funny. Your ALP said in 2007 they would build an NBN costing taxpayers $4.7B and finished in 5 years.

Turnbull was faced with a mess. He obviously was not “in the know” when in Opposition. I suspect Conroy did not tell the truth as you would expect for an ALP politician.

But i noticed you dodged the lie Labor told in 2007. They said we would have an NBN costing taxpayers $4.7B and finished in 5 years.

And it’s going global lol

Rupert Murdoch-owned newspaper the Australian has declared in a front page “exclusive” that plain packaging for cigarettes has failed because sales have gone up.

It was a great scoop. Except it isn’t true.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/smoke-and-mirrors-as-big-tobacco-fights-australian-plain-packaging-law-1.1837263

“It wasn’t perfect, but it was getting there. All trashed now”

Yeah. And Swan was gunna run a surplus budget. Conroy would be dead before his NBN was finished.

“All failures now are down to him.”

Typical ALP deadbeat comment.

Six years of failed policies and failed govt elected by failed people and now all the failures are the responsibility of the Coalition.

Nothing more corrupt than an ALP supporter.

Except of course Stephen Koukoulas who is the most corrupt of all.

And of course Koukoulas was an adviser to Gillard as you would expect.

Except of course Stephen Koukoulas who is the most corrupt of all.

HEY

I thought that was me? 😯

Sorry TB, you’re not even in the running anymore 😉

NBN had all sorts of side deals and non-disclosed undertakings with contractors, because the fixed price model couldn’t be delivered.

It was way behind schedule and way over budget, just as those of us not in the know predicted.

NBN used a trimmed down version of the costs of similar installations for Telstra, without realising that the union attraction and OHS requirements of a HUGE national rollout would slow down the project and add very significantly to costs.

‘Claus Voegele, Professor of Clinical and Health Psychology, said: ‘All addictions are similar in that the sufferer craves to excess the feel-good buzz they receive from chemical neurotransmitters produced when they eat, gamble, smoke, have sex or take drugs.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2657057/Food-addiction-DOES-exist-Some-people-really-lack-willpower-programmed-binge-eat.html#ixzz353haMA34
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Stephen Koukoulas is insane

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3751658.htm

” The problem with the Australian level of gross debt now and this is the Basel three requirements for looking after banks in the post GFC world is we don’t have enough debt.”

WE don’t have enough debt? How much debt does this retard think we should have??

No wonder he was an ALP adviser.

Koukoulas is an ALP supporter. I need to say no more.

(I don’t know; cut-brand re-pricing probably is doing wonders for invaluable intellectual property rights; that in itself might be enough; and enough to vindicate the exercise with a lil gold crown on top.)

Stephen Koukoulas said we don’t have enough debt.

If that is not insanity what is??

“When Game of Thrones’ fourth season premiered in April, more Australians illegally downloaded the program than any other nationality worldwide. Australia accounted for 11.6 per cent of the piracy and Melbourne was the worst-offending city on the globe, according to TorrentFreak.”

Winning!

“… not a patch on the fascists running this country … control and power!….””

So its quite OK when you are a Thief illegally downloading but you moan about Robber Barons.

Yeah Right !

“So its quite OK when you are a Thief illegally downloading but you moan about Robber Barons.”

I was thinking the same thing myself. But lefties say if you steal from Murdoch it is not stealing.

Trouble is while Tom Cruise may get $20M/movie lots of other people who are involved don’t get much money and movie rentals would help them survive.

(Updated (19 June 2014): 7:30 made the following clarification on its 18 June 2014 broadcast – “The consumer group CHOICE says it does not condone copyright piracy. It says it believes that Australians should be able to access and pay for content from overseas providers at a cheaper rate than is charged in Australia without being blocked by the government or local television operators.”

Read more: http://www.choice.com.au/media-and-news/consumer-news/news/CHOICE-opposes-piracy-180614.aspx#ixzz354KxQuzY )

(Moreover, I’m almost sure that The Powers That Be are doing all that they can to ensure that any Trans-Whatever Partnership fosters positive outcomes for consumers, first and foremost.)

“……….I ran my own business for 16 years – with a very professional business manager,……….””

Really…………………………?

Well I’ll be……………………………………….who would have thought that…………………first I’ve heard that……………….actually………..come to think of it………………………..LOL

Next thing you’ll be telling us all you were once an army conscript………………………..and wore a uniform

“A Robber Baron is someone who takes advantage of ordinary citizens, “

Sounds like Craig Thomson and Michael Williamson.

‘So it’s just a waste of your money.’

Nothing to do with me, I don’t pay tax, but it was gratifying to hear that young people don’t believe in fairy stories.

looks like barry tucker wants to make himself miserable armchair 🙂

”””’Winning!”””’

Yay Tinfoil`osy. #Go Bittorrent.

(l notice the corporate fcukers didn`t lower `online` prices when the $au was higher and equal to the $us) #parasites #hypocrites

Yeah splatter, that crossed my mind at the time, but clearly chaplains are oblivious to real world stuff.

TB drinking alcohol is worse than tobacco because of the collateral damage.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-20/alcohol-to-blame-for-one-in-eight-deaths—report/5102594

I truly hope his doesn’t come to pass. The implications are horrendous

The Abbott government is pressing ahead with secret trade negotiations aimed at bringing about radical deregulation of Australia’s banking and finance sector, WikiLeaks documents reveal.
…………..

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/secret-trade-negotiations-is-this-the-end-of-the-big-four-20140619-3ah39.html#ixzz358SzfWLY

AO

Would you call these people refugees?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-border-chaos-20140614-story.html#page=1

“The Rio Grande Valley has become ground zero for an unprecedented surge in families and unaccompanied children flooding across the Southwest border, creating what the Obama administration is calling a humanitarian crisis as border officials struggle to accommodate new detainees. Largely from Central America, they are now arriving at a rate of more than 35,000 a month.

Even if they are fact is there is large scale migration from poor countries to wealthy countries.

Eastern European scientists get paid $1,000/month in their homeland and get $7,000/month here.

Same would apply for all professions Nurses, dentists etc. And most of the world now learns English as a second language.

“What would you call people escaping from this then?”

OK you may have a point but i think the article said they were coming from further south than Mexico. I don’t know would you call them refugees? Are the people in the pictures being persecuted for their religious/political beliefs?

My American friend tells me when Washington DC was having a murder/day it was all drug related. Don’t do drugs and you are safe.

But the Americans are getting 35,000 of these people/month. I doubt they are all in danger. They are wanting a better lifestyle for their family.

“So you keep “informing” us … would you do some research and compare the cost of living in Russia compared to Australia?”

Apparently it is even low by Russian standards. They can barely survive. However instead of getting a job in another profession they migrate and swamp the job market.

“No, Kneel, they are dead … the refugees are escaping from a society where they could die like that “

Maybe not. If you are not doing drugs you are most probably safe.

The people in my article were coming from further south than Mexico. Most are just seeking a better life in a more affluent country. Better health care, better education. So those 35,000 people/month who cross the American border are fleeing for their life?

“I sat here for at least 30 seconds reading that … and all I can say is … I would emigrate too … as my family did ”

We generally don’t do skilled immigration in Australia unless there is a shortage. I find it hard to believe but apparently everybody who comes here on a 457 visa has a skill that cannot be found here.

And of course your comments shows no compassion for the people born and raised here. There are some professions like PhD research scientists being swamped. Dentists also. But as usual you do not care.

Judge doesnt accept statistical studies as proof of LC causation!

It was McTear V Imperial Tobacco. Here is the URL for both my summary and the Judge’s ‘opinion’ (aka ‘decision’):

(2.14) Prof Sir Richard Doll, Mr Gareth Davies (CEO of ITL). Prof James Friend and
Prof Gerad Hastings gave oral evidence at a meeting of the Health Committee in
2000. This event was brought up during the present action as putative evidence that
ITL had admitted that smoking caused various diseases. Although this section is quite
long and detailed, I think that we can miss it out. Essentially, for various reasons, Doll
said that ITL admitted it, but Davies said that ITL had only agreed that smoking might
cause diseases, but ITL did not know. ITL did not contest the public health messages.
(2.62) ITL then had the chance to tell the Judge about what it did when the suspicion
arose of a connection between lung cancer and smoking. Researchers had attempted
to cause lung cancer in animals from tobacco smoke, without success. It was right,
therefore, for ITL to ‘withhold judgement’ as to whether or not tobacco smoke caused
lung cancer.

[9.10] In any event, the pursuer has failed to prove individual causation.
Epidemiology cannot be used to establish causation in any individual case, and the
use of statistics applicable to the general population to determine the likelihood of
causation in an individual is fallacious. Given that there are possible causes of lung
cancer other than cigarette smoking, and given that lung cancer can occur in a nonsmoker,
it is not possible to determine in any individual case whether but for an
individual’s cigarette smoking he probably would not have contracted lung cancer
(paras.[6.172] to [6.185]).
[9.11] In any event there was no lack of reasonable care on the part of ITL at any
point at which Mr McTear consumed their products, and the pursuer’s negligence
case fails. There is no breach of a duty of care on the part of a manufacturer, if a
consumer of the manufacturer’s product is harmed by the product, but the consumer
knew of the product’s potential for causing harm prior to consumption of it. The
individual is well enough served if he is given such information as a normally
intelligent person would include in his assessment of how he wishes to conduct his
life, thus putting him in the position of making an informed choice (paras.[7.167] to
[7.181]).

World Atlas: More People Smoking Cigarettes than Ever

There are more people smoking now than ever before, despite health warnings and the rising price of cigarettes. In 1980, 4,453 billion cigarettes went up in smoke, which increased to 6,319 billion in 2010. By 2020, you can expect to find nearly seven billion cigarette ends littering the world.

Top of the charts in terms of nicotine addiction are Asia and Australia, which is where 57 percent of cigarettes are smoked today.

These alarming statistics are among many of the intriguing facts laid bare in the ninth edition of Dan Smith’s The State of the World Atlas.

Elsewhere, the book reports that 19 percent of Americans say they could not feed their families in 2011, despite living in one of the world’s richest countries. Meanwhile, 20 percent of India’s population remains undernourished, despite its Gross National Income rising by 450 percent since 1990.

An even more shocking revelation is that 2.5 billion people live on less than £1.25 a day, which represents one in three of the global population.

This pretty well destroys the Myth of second hand smoke:

Lungs from pack-a-day smokers safe for transplant, study finds.

By JoNel Aleccia, Staff Writer, NBC News.

Using lung transplants from heavy smokers may sound like a cruel joke, but a new study finds that organs taken from people who puffed a pack a day for more than 20 years are likely safe.

What’s more, the analysis of lung transplant data from the U.S. between 2005 and 2011 confirms what transplant experts say they already know: For some patients on a crowded organ waiting list, lungs from smokers are better than none.

“I think people are grateful just to have a shot at getting lungs,” said Dr. Sharven Taghavi, a cardiovascular surgical resident at Temple University Hospital in Philadelphia, who led the new study………………………

Ive done the math here and this is how it works out with second ahnd smoke and people inhaling it!

The 16 cities study conducted by the U.S. DEPT OF ENERGY and later by Oakridge National laboratories discovered:

Cigarette smoke, bartenders annual exposure to smoke rises, at most, to the equivalent of 6 cigarettes/year.

146,000 CIGARETTES SMOKED IN 20 YEARS AT 1 PACK A DAY.

A bartender would have to work in second hand smoke for 2433 years to get an equivalent dose.

Then the average non-smoker in a ventilated restaurant for an hour would have to go back and forth each day for 119,000 years to get an equivalent 20 years of smoking a pack a day! Pretty well impossible ehh!

TB My old man dropped dead @ 57.. had he not smoked since he was 12 he’d still be alive.. BAT stuge I recon

“Where? Precisely? ”

From my link

The number of children and teenagers traveling alone from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador is expected to reach up to 90,000 across the Southwest border by the end of the year,

The USA is getting 35,000 illegal economic immigrants/month. Most of those are fleeing for a better life.

You have more rights than immigrants?

We could get the best cricket and soccer team in the world by flying in highly trained and skilled players from around the world. But i would find it hard to support such a team. I never liked it when half the English cricket team was from South Africa.

You are speaking from total ignorance. You have no idea what is going on in some professions. We are training people for years to get a profession and then the jobs go to flyins from Eastern Europe.

Wow, someone was going through some kind of withdrawal last night.

Quitting is for Quitters! ❓

Yeah between this paid Big backy, dick smoking, fucktard, two wheeled Nazi Vdub driving teabagger troll and Squeals complete inability to stay remotely on topic, it goes to show how stupid these narrow pointy fucktard sycophant trolls are.

Harley has plenty to say. It’s all quite uninteresting.

I don’t know whether passive smoking will harm my health, but Harley needs to get over it. I find having to inhale someone’s second hand smoke repulsive and annoying.

Smokers impose this on non smokers without compunction. The outdoor section of cafes sued to be for people to enjoy sun and fresh air. These days the outdoor area is for the gasping smokers.

BAN THEM!!

Even MORE data proving the oz is LYING

”It’s worth noting that in publishing the Treasury data the Health Department said it was an indicator of tobacco volumes in the Australian market. It was a gentle guide to those who need guide dogs and white sticks that these are the most relevant figures,” he said.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/plain-packaging-pushes-cigarette-sales-down-20140622-3amd8.html#ixzz35QKhdyWh

Do you get the impression that Treasury just might be a bit pissed off fed up with this government … ?

Maybe they are just pissed off that paid for “data” is used instead of the real thing?

Squeal can’t discuss anything without taking the high moral ground? I think the poor thing has some type of superiority complex…

No credit to Nicola for one of the great political legacies in the world in taking on and defeating big backy.. just some type of twisted hatred .. Sad case indeed.

Ask yourself this, Would the Coalition have the political plumbs to pull this off?
I think not.

”””””””No credit to Nicola for one of the great political legacies in the world in taking on and defeating big backy”””””””

this is over-blown/wishful ricky, increased-tax/packaging is a`soft` attack at best, for nanny-roxon to have been `great`, she needed to `outlaw` at least `some` of the hundreds of toxic chemicals big-tobacco put in the damn smokes,

l some-what doubt the packaging angle, as there is tax-increases too, which hide/blur the ability to `measure` any `packaging-effect`,

what l do know is,
+ increasing tax, increases black-market, which there is NO `measure`
+ less than 1% of shipping containers is `intensively` inspected,
+ depending on port, and time, only between `about` 3% and 6% of containers are even `scanned`/x-ray/dog-sniffed

“No credit to Nicola for one of the great political legacies in the world in taking on and defeating big backy.. just some type of twisted hatred .. Sad case indeed. ”

No I give credit to Roxon. She was a very brave women for what she did. The Coalition would have never done something like that. I give lots of praise to Nicola.

But my opinion is that most Labor govt policies no matter how well meaning do not work.

Furthermore Labor supporters i suspect do not care about saving lives from smoking. For them they may have found one Labor policy amongst a humongous lot of total failures may have worked.

But all praise to Nicola for a very brave stand. I hope what she has done works.

its a strange day in teabag`land when ricky is being defended by kneel 🙂

Defended with a backhanded dig .. just cant help himself.. 🙄

‘the number of cigarettes sold in Australia FELL last year.’

Except for off the books black market.

”””’Except for off the books black market.”””’

wow! so you`re not denying reality on this one dumpty.?

‘wow! so you`re not denying reality on this one dumpty.?’

A container load undetected would be quite lucrative. Cheap ciggies can be bought in the Haymarket, apparently, under the counter and off the books.

””’Cheap ciggies can be bought in the Haymarket, apparently””’

l guess that`ll keep nsw-plod busy for `about` ever,

(better not look in cabramatta) — 🙂

yeah ricky, my dad also died of cancer (non-smoker) and he was halfadozen years younger than yours, but l aint gonna nail my flag to nanny-roxons `mild` ideas,

you can, if you wish, but there is a `deluge` of chemicals dumped on the unwary population, and also dna-damaging toxins that also need to be rectified, and getting all shouty about the `soft-and-mild` attempted-fixes, also detracts from greater problems,

eg. did you know there are `hills` of asbestos that are now exposed and distributing asbestos on the wind.? notice that there is little-to-no noise being made about it.?

”””””””an increase in black market cigarette sales is occurring, that would purely be a price driven mechanism, rather than a result of plain packs…?””””””#agree_price-driven

.

”””””the tobacco industry that’s arguing that plain packs have led to an increase in black market sales and that argument just sounds like the typical outright lies and bullshit we’ve come to expect from them.”””””””#agree_big-tobacco-bullshits

.

for me reb its not anecdotal, but observation,
if you `omni-search`the blog-comments (under the bonnet), l`m pretty certain l was debating TB and reported the`colorful` packs l come across on my walks, this was well before any clap-trap coming out of teabag-media

TB

I started to read your comment but it was too long and confusing so i gave up.

‘rather than a result of plain packs…?’

Its just a generality, nanny Roxon put in place a steep tax which should theoretically stop poor people from smoking. But no, the lower classes are in touch with the underworld and will seek out their drug of choice at the most affordable price.

Alright, plain packaging has been a stunning success, so let’s fast forward six years.

Your favourite drop has a bloated liver on the label and the price is three times higher than now. It might deter young people, but would seasoned drinkers be persuaded to stop?

l look forward to a black market krusty-burger and kentucky-duck after a failed `fat-arse` packaging regime finally dies #teabags

””yes, tbag, I said BAN ‘em all … but I am aware of the consequences of prohibition””

””Too wise and smart … ;)””

well ya`not really showing it today TB, the `problem` with `ban` is it becomes illegal, and we then have the plods chucking people in the gulag for having a pack of smokes and making criminals out of them for merely `smoking` (much like locking up hiipies with a joint of choof) while `real` crime then gets shoved to the back-burner, FYI, it costs `about` $100K, per-prisoner, per-year,

money$ well spent.?

well TB, the 40-year `war-on-drugs` has been a total failure, and l can`t see any possibility of it being successful ever, placing smokes in the same `category` (which is what `banning` them is) won`t be successful either,

all that would happen, is 100% of smoke-sales would be on the black-market, as is `ice`, heroine, choof, cocaine,

l also can`t see Govts giving-up their addiction to smoke-tax either, this is the addiction that can`t be cured,

to obtain enough funding for full, 100%, `intensive` port inspections, and running courts, police and gulags for those `law-breakers`, we won`t have `any` education or medical budgets, the grand-scale financially, to actually enforce `any` type of prohibition makes it unworkable, whether you look at `war-on-drugs` of alfonse-capone

So am I.

So am I.

I AGREE!

and egg, how much alcohol can be taken in measures that won’t affect your health detrimentally, and how much tobacco can be smoked that will do the same?

Nobody has proven wrong that the number of sticks consumed has increased

That isn’t what the claim was though tosy, their claim was sticks sold, not sticks consumed, a pedantic differentiation perhaps , but an important differentiation nonetheless. The oz also directly claimed that consumption was up because of their figures, which has also been shown to be wrong

http://www.thekouk.com/blog/the-abs-confirms-tobacco-consumption-is-falling.html#.U6iw37HMoik

But if you meant to say “Nobody has proven wrong that the number of sticks SOLD has increased” then I would agree but, as has been shown by ALL the other data and explained just why this might be the case, the data, even if correct, is largely worthless to the larger debate overall.

‘how much alcohol can be taken in measures that won’t affect your health detrimentally, and how much tobacco can be smoked that will do the same?’

It depends, technically speaking they are both injurious to health. The difference is that alcohol has collateral damage attached, whereas smokers are only a pariah group of fringe dwellers and generally harmless.

“That isn’t what the claim was though tosy, their claim was sticks sold, not sticks consumed, a pedantic differentiation perhaps , but an important differentiation nonetheless”

My mistake, the Oz claimed an increase in sticks sold. My point remains. Nobody has proven wrong that the number of sticks consumed sold has increased.

It depends, technically speaking they are both injurious to health.

Again, that is not what I said. alcohol, in small amounts, can have no deleterious effect to your health (in fact, some claim that small amounts can beg good for your health), smoking is bad in no matter how small an amount, even second hand smoke.

https://theguttertrash.com/2014/06/17/new-data-confirms-the-australian-lied-about-tobacco-consumption/#comment-63091

It’s about the third time that has been put up now reb 😉

Nobody has proven wrong that the number of sticks consumed sold has increased.

See above 😉

Mind you, that is not the core of what was wrong with the oz. It was their statement that this meant consumption was up, and that this proved that plain packaging had failed. Both of which are WRONG. And which has been highlighted to them, and which they refuse to correct.

In essence, they continue to LIE!

I see that nice young woman, Johdi Meares, was smoking in a restaurant and some intolerant types objected. Then Johdi got very p***ed and drove her car into some other cars, while her licence was suspended for driving while very full.

The conclusions that can be reasonably drawn-
• Non smokers shouldn’t upset heavy drinking smokers by complaining about smoking
• Perhaps there’s a place for taxpayer subsidised chauffers for swimsuit models, and
• Rich people in Bellevue Hill should park such that they don’t get in the way of drunk swimsuit models careering down the road

Just looked at the McCrann drivel. He’s so wrong form the start

It all started with an article by Christian Kerr in our stablemate The Australian, detailing analysis that suggested the Gillard government’s plain packaging legislation had failed in its intended purpose — to reduce smoking.

For starters, it didn’t “suggest”, it declared, unequivocally, that it had had failed. It also claims it’s intended purpose was to reduce smoking, but that is only true in the long term, in conjunction with other efforts, it’s intended purpose was to “reduce the attractiveness and appeal of tobacco products to consumers”.

The rationale for plain packaging
This Bill will prevent tobacco advertising and promotion on tobacco products and
tobacco product packaging in order to:
· reduce the attractiveness and appeal of tobacco products to consumers,
particularly young people;
· increase the noticeability and effectiveness of mandated health warnings;
· reduce the ability of the tobacco product and its packaging to mislead
consumers about the harms of smoking; and
· through the achievement of these aims in the long term, as part of a
comprehensive suite of tobacco control measures, contribute to efforts to
reduce smoking rates.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/bill_em/tppb2011190/memo_0.html

“The rationale for plain packaging”

What they didn’t account for was the law of unintended consequences. That plain packaging would remove brand loyalty and drive prices down.

Apparently not.

Precisely. The oz claimed consumption was up.

I must admit ao, it is passing strange that the big tobacco companies apparently have the data on the “black market”.

One wonders how they came to possess this?

”””Since when have we collected black market stats”””

exactly my points above armchair, l don`t know of any Govt estimates, best-guesses, or even if they have a fcuking clue to black-market `volumes`, so we don`t know if 1% or 20% of smokers have black-product, therefore, we don`t know the `transfered`amount of smokers either, hypothetically, if 10% of smokers have transfered to the black-product, then the white-market is `about` 10% incorrect.

#or l could google l suppose,

””””””””””””Chop chop dominates the illegal tobacco market in Australia and is
regarded as the area of greatest risk to tobacco excise revenue. As
such it is the subject of greatest attention by the ATO law enforcement
policy. It is estimated that approximately 1 in every 17 cigarettes
smoked in Australia contains chop chop.4
Estimates of the size of the chop chop market vary between 0.4 and
2.6 million kg per annum, which translates to between $99 million and
$600 million in lost tax and excise per annum. In the 2003-04
financial year, the ATO seized around 68 tonnes of chop chop with an
excise value of more than $19 million.

Click to access Sub%2046%20BATA%20-%20Attachment.pdf

””””””””””””””””’

tom-r, nanny-roxons packaging was done to reduce `brand-loyalty` and as armchair said reduce the `cool`/trendy/chic image factor/s from smokes

the `packaging` doesn`t effect the price anywhere near `tax` does

l guess it depends on which `evils` you are prepared to live with when it comes to increasing the size of the `gouge` on the consumer,

the bigger the `gouge` whether it be dvds,cds, fashion-items or smokes-tax, the bigger the gap is for black-market/counterfeit goods

“the `packaging` doesn`t effect the price anywhere near `tax` does”

You got a link for that, or did you see it on the telly?

‘alcohol, in small amounts, can have no deleterious effect to your health (in fact, some claim that small amounts can be good for your health)’

Yeah, I’ve heard that one.

brands themselves also have an `image` eg. Mckrusty-burger has a `fun` image, and reinforces that `fun` message with their `happy` meal packaging

“#marketing 101”

I’m sure that’s all so very interesting Bagz. What has it got to do with how much plain packaging affects the price of cigarettes (which is the topic about which you made a specific claim, and about which I asked for your specific evidence).

“Wrong Terry – the ABS data are the volume of tobacco consumed whether they are cheap or expensive sticks. Simple.”

So can the Kouk tell us, just by looking at the ABS data, how many sticks were consumed, and what was their price?

No. Simple.

Tinfoil`osy, nanny-roxons `smoke`Laws are made of 2-components,
1-tax
2-packaging
________________

1-the tax effects the price, and price sensitive consumer,

”””””Bagz. What has it got to do with how much plain packaging affects the price of cigarettes (which is the topic about which you made a specific claim, and about which I asked for your specific evidence).”””””””’

# l don`t claim the package effects the price, tax does

2-the packages effects the brand-image, and relates to the consumer-image, this is just marketing basics ie-101

tom_r, Limited-News produces mainly junk, their big-tobacco bullshit proves this, but l am still doubtful about nanny-roxons `packaging` success, she would have had my respect if she had banned a couple of dozen of the worst toxins/poisons/chemicals they stuff into the smokes, but she didn“t, only took-on the `soft` or `mild` bit, tax and package.

but l am still doubtful about nanny-roxons `packaging` success

Too early to call imo, but the signs look good.

but she didn“t, only took-on the `soft` or `mild` bit, tax and package.

lol. She has led the way against a formidable and well financed opponent, and the rest of the world looks on in anticipation. But, if you think that is gutless, so be it.

Taking on the tobacco giants was heroic, but nobody has the balls to take on the booze lobby.

tom_r, both you and ricky have been cheerleading for nanny-roxon packets, and l have said they are `mild` and pointed out smokes have hundreds of toxic chemicals in`em, yet all you guy`s do is try and `inflate` my words, and continually run from the chemical issue. Why the hell you guys think that all those poisons `should` stay in smokes has got me fcuked, the `packaging` will more than likely be a `long-and-slow` benefit, as in deterring `new` smokers. Why wouldn`t you guys want less poisons `now`, so that much-less damage(hopefully) is done to current smokers `now`, which is what l was wanting nanny-roxon to do ALONG with the packages.

murdochs stoopid spans continents

in their defense, nobody at fox news can count higher than 100. http://t.co/z8U6YMZvMj—
✖️ (@BackCzech46) June 22, 2014

Here’s some homework for ya. Next time the oz puts some random “data” up and proclaims it to definitively says one thing and therefore prove something they have a hard on for when all other data says otherwise and therefore indicate a different outcome to their declaration, flush the useless rag down the dunny 😉

Tinfoil`osy, your super-market/product question is wrong, you`re talking about product/range pricing-points.

the next time l go to the supermarket Tinfoil`osy, it will most likely be aldi, which operates very differently to the coles/woolies duopoly,

aldi `owns` most of the brands, in effect they are all `house-brands`, with a few unique exceptions, like vegemite and milo, which aldi does stock

you guy`s do is try and `inflate` my words

Heavens!!

Who would have thought that teabagz is so sensitive about that type of behaviour?

I don’t suppose he’s ever tried that himself.

I purchased Some “Watties” baked beans the other day because they had run out of my favorite “Hienz” They were $1 cheaper and 100x better. The Coral Aldi version is great better than Heinz for mine.

Aldi source lots of stuff and they have their own brand.
The great thing about Aldi over the duopoly cartel is nobody pays to get on their shelves. If something is unpopular they replace it till they get a brand that works based on what the consumer wants.All the stuff at eye level in Coles and Woolies are paying to be there, they have premium display where the supplier pays for the privilege. Coles and Woolies will purposely take their generics off the shelves in favor of a supplier that pays for the privilege. There is a whole other business that the big two have just charging for placement.
Did you know that the big two started protest groups against Aldi when it first opened. They also purchased the land adjoining their stores where possible so as to stop them opening up across the road. They also made complaints through bullshit groups of citizens objectig to them selling alcohol.. They are fucked, break em up I say.

Most of that Chop Chop that you see sold illegally comes from tobacco farms owned by Big Tobacco executives, something they fail to disclose. The Big Tobacco companies actually have a whole other revenue stream in knock off fags and chop chop.

Like Pharmaceuticals…
Some of those generics are just production runs of the same thing with a different label.
Take medicine. I asked my doctor and pharmacist what the difference was, both replied “nothing”. When the patent runs out they do another run with a generic label on it and its the exactly the same thing.
Panamax = Panadol….

The trashing of the brand continues, it’s just getting what it deserves

Rupert Murdoch’s ‘The Australian’ has been accused of conspiring with Big Tobacco to dissuade the UK and Ireland from introducing plain packaging legislation, with an apparently ‘misleading’ report claiming Australia’s landmark laws are failing.
…………………………..

We recently reported on an article published in The Australian which claimed that Australia’s tough new laws enforcing plain packaging of tobacco products had done nothing to deter sales but had actually increased sales. The ‘exclusive’ report by News Corp’s Aussie flagship has since been exposed as untrue, leading experts to question the motives behind the story.

http://www.australiantimes.co.uk/news/news-from-australia/australia-world-news/the-australians-reputation-up-in-smoke-over-cigarette-plain-packaging.htm

(True.)

“not what normal people would consider”

😯

lol Meta, loved the video, ltd news are just a collection of hotplates, flying whatever plane they want to be flown at any given time. A self perpetuating truthiness. Nice 🙂

Are conspiracy theories “normal”?

I wouldn’t know, But, what Seccombe wrote is not a conspiracy, it is a collation of facts, and a highlighting of gross mistakes perpetrated by murdoch all aimed at discrediting plain packaging. That is unequivocal. Is it “coincidental” that they have done this as other countries mull over the issue? Hardly One thing we know with murdoch, everything his papers print have a goal behind it.

” Hardly One thing we know with murdoch, everything his papers print have a goal behind it.”

Yeah and leftists/socialists just print the facts. The most dishonest people i have interacted with are ALP supporters on blogs. Would not trust a single thing an ALP supporter says.

I hope plain packaging works but i still see kids smoking at the railway station in the morning. Most ALP programs do not work. There is always some unforeseen stuffup.

Personally i think alcohol is as big a problem. It is now everywhere The only time you cannot purchase it is on some public holidays. Even Aldi now sells it.

“So, do you support the oz printing lies in order to try and bring it down before it really can take effect or not?”

Listen mate all you care about is that the ALP is in power. People like you would have all of Australia living in caves rather than have a Coalition govt.

What lies??

Preliminary data says plain packing has not worked. I do give praise to Roxon for trying something.

My experience is that most ALP policies do not work. There is always some unforeseen stuffup.

That appears to be the case.

That’s the problem, All other data disagrees. It shows a continuing fall in consumption. Even after this was pointed out, the oz continued to claim the opposite. And have been unable or unwilling to provide the proof to back up their assertion.

‘Egg are you serious?’

No

I’m not really into horror or unnecessary violence.

splitting hairs

ROFL

Considering it has been absolutely proven that the “evidence” used by the oz does not agree with any of the other data out there then there is no “splitting hairs”. The oz has got some dodgy, unconfirmed, cherry picked number and drawn a conclusion from that, and their conclusion does not align with ANY and ALL of the other data out there. The only thing to split is just how enmeshed murdochs tabloids are with the tobacco industry. We know the IPA are too gutless to expose their alliance, is murdoch?

Might as well deal with actual bias and misrepresentation in the media. On this occasion it is Fairfax, which is developing plenty of form for misrepresentation!

The Press Council has considered whether its Standards of Practice were breached by an opinion article, Auto report is a fantasy tale with a tragic twist, in The Age on February 6 2014. A sub-heading read: “The Productivity Commission’s damning verdict on the car industry has no basis in reality”.

The final paragraph referred to the Prime Minister’s response to the Holden announcement:

“Abbott, when asked about the Holden workers who will lose their jobs, said they should be grateful they were being liberated from slaving on an assembly line, moving to living off Newstart and Work for the Dole. If this sort of liberation will suit Holden workers on $60,000 per year including overtime, how much more delightful it should be for Productivity Commission analysts on three times that. It can’t happen soon enough.”

Accordingly, the council has concluded that the publication breached the principle concerning misrepresentation of facts in an opinion article.

The Age is biased, it deliberately lies, it is earning its fast declining commercial viability.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/press-council-adjudication-20140629-zsq34.html#ixzz367GRZqz8

(grogsgamut/carson 63000 said)”””””””””””””’there’s a huge difference between an editorial endorsement and literally dozens of screaming front-page headlines, campaigning masked by the flimsiest pretence of being “news”, throughout the entire campaign.””””””””””””

#l tend to agree with carson63000`s comment tom-r, to nick carson`s words,

Limited-News now is ””masked by the flimsiest pretence of being “news”, throughout the entire””year, their tobacco sponsorship is evidence of that, (along with the willful marketing dis-information).

A small victory, but a victory none the less. Mind you, I get the feeling that, if this drags on long enough, our current gubamint might not possess the intestinal fortitude to hold their ground in the same way that they do with the worlds most vulnerable people like asylum seekers.

Australia has had a victory in the first step of the plain packaging challenge being played out in an international investment tribunal.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australia-wins-first-battle-in-plain-packaging-trade-dispute-20140702-zst8d.html#ixzz36LyERZtX