Why is Bill Shorten Attending the Australian Christian Lobby National Conference?
The leader of the opposition, Bill Shorten, has been confirmed as the keynote speaker at The Australian Christian Lobby’s National Conference in October this year.
This is the same event that former Prime Minister Julia Gillard was booked to address, but cancelled at a rate of knots after the hate group’s then leader Jim Wallace suggested that the homosexual “lifestyle” was more hazardous than smoking.
The fight against marriage equality is still a central platform for the Christian Lobby, and something its leader Lyle Shelton has been particularly vocal about again since a new poll found 72% of Australians wanted the reform.
In a press release strangely titled ‘More mature marriage debate needed’, Shelton steered well clear of maturity last week as he expressed his slippery slope fears about same-sex marriage, including the strange idea that children would be taken from their biological parents, and that polygamy or even ‘child marriage’ could result opening up marriage laws to same-sex couples.
It’s beyond me what Bill hopes to achieve from this ill-considered venture particularly when you consider that the Australian Christian Lobby primarily consists of a mob of mean-spirited, elderly white people with their mean pursed lips, pearl earrings and tartan skirts mouthing off at anything that poses a “threat” to their hokey little twin-set and horn-rimmed view of the world.
I mean seriously, what can he possibly hope to achieve?
This bunch of antediluvian mongrels masquerade their hate-filled views couched as some sort of feigned concern for “the children” (who will think of them?), but in reality, the ever present odour of their rancid views invariably seeps through and is self-evident for anyone with half a brain – which is quite clearly the upper limit for membership of their fucked-up little group.
theguttertrash.com 
He was educated by the Jesuits.
He didn’t listen in class.
It’s most likely that he’s damned if he does but even more damned if he doesn’t. The advocates for same sex marriage will not look upon the attendance favorably but politically Shorten probably thinks that it will be forgotten given time.
On the other hand, the fucking fruit loops who are members of the ACL will more than likely pillory him until the end of time for being ‘pro-homosexual’, socialist, and of course anti-Christian. While they may be small (no pun intended) they are powerful when it comes to gathering votes and more to the point – very vocal.
Bill probably figures that in time the same-sex marriage lobby may be more forgiving in the long run, whereas the ACL will never let it rest if he should politely (or otherwise) refuse.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending him nor am I a supporter of Shorten – jus’ saying…
But EE, the ACL are a minority religious nut job group. Why would he even bother with them?
Good to see Shortmen and Co is shaking-off the `teabag-lite` image they have among `our` viewers.
Get me a bucket
Edward – “whereas the ACL will never let it rest if he should politely (or otherwise) refuse.
So what? That lot are not part of any demographic that will vote ALP, all Shorten is doing is proving that he’s a dud without direction.
Most likely Shorten is pi**ing of people that might vote for the ALP.
A few years ago the ACL savaged Julia because she gave ALP members a ‘conscience vote’ on ‘same sex marriage’. Which is a clear indication that the ACL is absolute crap.
Most likely Shorten is pi**ing of people that might vote for the ALP.
And quite a few who already do …
Maybe its to counter the Catlik surge that’s now running the show via Pope Rupert …
Should I buy a cross and a white pointy hat or what?
The buckets full I need another
I think Shorten is yet another of the many catholics that infest our politics. If they are not catholic they’re another religion [mostly fundy it seems]. It’s is a silent epidemic, this infiltration of a supposedly secular state by religion, it is deliberate and organised. There needs to be a light shone on the influence of religion over our public institutions [and the taxpayer funding that goes their way]. I don’t think ordinary voters think very much about it, as the pollies are careful to hide religious affiliations from public gaze and party selections are rigged so that party candidates are forced upon us rather than voted for – how else would cory bernardi and the other nutters get elected? look at the gaming of the senate voting system where we get senators from a minuscule percentage of votes, DLP, family first and those libertarian crazies from the extreme right who seem happy to share the same politics as the religious .
I’d like an inquiry into the overt influences of religion, lobbyists and donors over government, but I doubt that would ever happen.
If we were republic instead of a constitutional monarchy, things might be better, there would be a constitutional separation of church and state and we would have an oversight of the taxpayer funding given to religion.
http://www.rationalist.com.au/10-point-plan-for-a-secular-australia/
Bigger Bucket please…
‘I think Shorten is yet another of the many catholics that infest our politics.’
I don’t think he is practicing, nevertheless the Jesuits would have instilled in young William a fear of dog. As my dad would oft say, ‘once a Catholic always a Catholic.’
Lots aren’t happy with shorten’s appearance:
http://thatsmyphilosophy.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/dont-legitimise-the-australian-christian-lobby-mr-shorten-an-open-letter-from-adamm-ferrier/
…When I rang his office yesterday, his very polite staffer acknowledged they’d been deluged with complaints…
“those libertarian crazies from the extreme right who seem happy to share the same politics as the religious”
I know. They want to legalise drugs, suicide, and gay marriage. Fkn fundy nutjobz.
Our political system has an over representation of religion when compared to the general community.
crikey looked at it in 2009 where the catholics were a majority in labor and the anglicans + ‘other protestant’ grouping [fundies] were a majority in the libs
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/09/09/religion-and-party-identification/
…The data here suggests that religious affiliation has one of the largest demographic correlations with political support – interesting in a country that isn’t militantly, not even particularly overtly religious…
‘Atheism, agnosticism, deism, scepticism, freethought, secular humanism or general secularism are increasing in Australia.
‘Post-war Australia has become a highly secularised country. Religion does not play a major role in the lives of much of the population.’
wiki
I know. They want to legalise drugs, suicide, and gay marriage. Fkn fundy nutjobz
The LDP tony?
I was talking about all those self confessed ‘libertarians’ in the liberal party, the ones who have been dictating to us about libertarian economics, they are in our current government, the LNP.
How many LDP mps are in there?
‘Post-war Australia has become a highly secularised country. Religion does not play a major role in the lives of much of the population…’
Religion plays a large role in the lives of our politicians and government policies.
Especially with the Gaia worshipping Greens.
‘Religion plays a large role in the lives of our politicians and government policies.’
Are you suggesting a conspiracy?
Shorten’s family was not religious, his mum thought the Jesuits were good teachers who could help Bill achieve something in life.
That’s sharp splatter.
Especially with the Gaia worshipping Greens
nuh uh, the climate deniers seems to have both religion and politics in common, apparently the creator magically fixes all.
Australians are not Americans, we are pretty indifferent to the fairy stories, but our US cousins are definitely weird.
‘Nearly two-thirds (65%) of white evangelical Protestants believe that the severity of recent natural disasters is evidence of what the Bible calls the end times, compared to roughly 1-in-5 Catholics (21%) and religiously unaffiliated Americans (15%).’
“Australians are not Americans, we are pretty indifferent to the fairy stories, but our US cousins are definitely weird”
You have obviously not read the first words in our Constitution
“Whereas the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, and Tasmania, humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God, have agreed to unite in one indissoluble Federal Commonwealth under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and under the Constitution hereby established:”
There is no reference to God in the USA Constitution but there is in ours.
Strangely Western Australia is not mentioned in the preamble.
We pay lip service to the deity, but on the ground the electorate is blissfully unaware.
Shorten’s family was not religious, his mum thought the Jesuits were good teachers who could help Bill achieve something in life.
that means what exactly??
Are you suggesting a conspiracy?
yes I am, a conspiracy of religious over representation in our politics and of religious people entering politics specifically to influence society according to their personal religious belief [conscience votes].
Do you think it’s just a coincidence that there is more religious representation in politics than in the general community?
The voters don’t choose the MP, the party does.
We pay lip service to the deity, but on the ground the electorate is blissfully unaware.
On the ground the electorate is deliberately kept unaware of the religious influences and affiliations of politicians. No it’s not blissful ignorance, people want to know these things and they are not informed, they are deceived.
‘that means what exactly??’
Dunno
‘Xavier resonates with the Shorten family. Credited as the driving force behind her family’s academic and political success, Ann Shorten was determined her sons would receive an education under the guidance of the Jesuits. She was not religious, but as a cultural Catholic and an educator she respected Jesuit education. She sent her boys to Xavier and went back to work as a teacher to help pay the fees.’
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bill-shorten-farewells-mother-ann-at-private-funeral-in-melbourne-20140415-zqv33.html#ixzz38MhnNTHV
Don’t worry Kitty the heathens are arriving in large numbers and they’ll gradually weed out the dog botherers, but in the meantime or in the end times, the religious lot in parliament is only a coincidence and there is no conspiracy.
Breaking Nooz:
Former federal parliamentary speaker Peter Slipper must face dishonesty charges after an application to have his case thrown out was dismissed by the ACT Magistrates Court.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-24/slipper-loses-third-bid-to-have-dishonesty-charges-thrown-out/5619142
Religion does not play a major role in the lives of much of the population.’
D’ja reckon? The mean-spiritedness of the Catholic “faith” is rife amongst the current crop of cringe worthy politicians shining their arses on green and red leather around the country … just as China covertly invades the world the “faiths” surreptitiously invade our schools … and dabble with everyone’s lives …
And on another “issue” I do hope that everyone with even a skerrick of intelligence has noticed how well the economy is being handled … unemployment up to 6% … inflation at 3/2.8% … confidence in the government and its budget 0% … economists saying that if inflation is up Hockey is a Dickwit™ … housing bubble set to pop … pensioners running scared … AMA up in arms … financial institutions being challenged … and Abbott fkn around with Malyasian Airlines as if he owns shares and making silly statements and promises he can’t keep …
So nice to have the adults and best economic managers in charge …
An 18.6% swing in a by-election belted Sir Noddy Newman around the head … but he’ll find that Queenslanders have long memories … as will Lord Abbott when the elections pop around …
“Especially with the Gaia worshipping Greens.”
Hilarious.
I love how it’s become a bizarre attack by the religious, to try & slander their perceived opponents as ‘religious’.
Ironic.
The existence of Earth is a proven thing…any ‘worship’ of it (silly or not) is at least grounded in reality.
The existence of ‘god’ (particularly the supposedly intrusive, uncomfortably humancentric Abrahamic deity) is an unprovable thing, in the same way that the existence of a celestial teapot is neither provable nor unprovable.
A ludicrous line of assault, imo.
“And on another “issue” I do hope that everyone with even a skerrick of intelligence has noticed how well the economy is being handled … unemployment up to 6%”
Toooooooo funny.
That comment came from a human who voted for Keating when unemployment was at 11% in 1993. When Keating became PM in 1991 unemployment was at double digits and when won govt in 1993 unemployment was at 11%.
Yes and unemployment was at 4.3% when Howard lost office in 2007 and was at 5.8% when Labor lost office last year. So unemployment is basically unchanged. And in case you do not know unemployment was estimated to be at 6.25% by now according to Swans last predictions before he lost office so unemployment is lower than what Swan predicted.
I hope nobody takes any notice of what TB of Queensland says. A man who would vote for the ALP no matter what damage that immoral party would do to Australia.
”””””””””””
http://www.rationalist.com.au/10-point-plan-for-a-secular-australia/
””””””””””’via-armchair
while l don`t disagree with the 10-points, or their explainers by kirby,
.
”””If we were republic instead of a constitutional monarchy,”””
”””things might be better,”””
”””there would be a””””
”””’constitutional separation of church and state and we would have an oversight of the taxpayer funding given to religion.”””’
l tend to disagree with your concluding summary(which seems to sound like teh-usa model) and kirby didn`t say we had to go-repug on that particular link(don`t know elsewhere)
teh-usa repug model, which is infested with dog and biz influence, and has even less people-power than we have, it makes my mind boggle when aussies reckon they want to go repug and be even worse-off in the people-power stakes,
if we did go repug, sometime in the future, aussies would look back with great fondness to the days of the `generous-2014-hockey-budget`
I agree with YomM on this, btw.
It is pointless for ALP leaders to court the religious nutjob vote…& the ACL represents religious nutjobbery & attempts to peddle influence. Those inclined to mentally masturbate over the ACL’s religious conservative wishlist of social impositions are never going to vote for the ALP anyway.
All Shorten’s overtures towards the ACL will do is disgruntle plenty of people the ALP already has a perceived affinity with.
Stupid politics.
Not my Queen/King.
Not my god/fantasy.
””””””””””’I am a regular church-going Anglican. So I feel somewhat qualified to consider the Australian Christian Lobby as nothing short of a sanitised Ku Klux Klan, and find it difficult to understand why any political party in its right mind would lend credence to this most unChristian of organisations.
If you feel the overwhelming need to court this group of right wing lunatics then by all means do so: but remember, a leopard cannot change its spots. They will never endorse the Australian Labor Party: never in a million years. Not even with your undoubted charm and charisma and boyish smile. Never, mate. Never.
http://thatsmyphilosophy.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/dont-legitimise-the-australian-christian-lobby-mr-shorten-an-open-letter-from-adamm-ferrier/
”””””””””””””’
guffaw, being teabag-lite is even pissing-off the dog botherers, team-shortmen should wake-up to themselves
“I love how it’s become a bizarre attack by the religious, to try & slander their perceived opponents as ‘religious’.”
Depends what you mean by religion. Not all things we think of as religions entail a belief in deities. There are plenty of interest groups that have the hallmarks of religion. Gaia worshippers come pretty close. As do communists, progressives and proselytising atheists.
Whether consciously or not we all have a framework of assumptions, beliefs and prejudices through which we approach the world. The most deluded and dangerous are those who don’t even recognise this and think that they are perfectly rational.
SB
That is what i have always said. People believe what they want to believe and facts are irrelevant.
You either have a correct belief or an incorrect belief.
The ALP religion does not work. It always produces debt and unemployment.
TB is hyperventilating because unemployment is at 6%. Well that was as low as it got from 1983-1996. Keating won an election in 1993 when unemployment was at 11%.
TB of Queensland would vote Labor if unemployment was at 25%.
‘The most deluded and dangerous are those who don’t even recognise this and think that they are perfectly rational.’
They are in denial, a terrible malady.
”””’Depends what you mean by religion.”””’
ya`can safely assume organized dog-clubs leveraging favor,
nobody gives a shit about un-organized individuals chanting early morning kum-bah-yah in their own home
“They are in denial, a terrible malady.”
You are a gutless fuck.
Hmmm …
“Depends what you mean by religion. ”
Obviously.
I do not worship anything.
I am rational.
My comment is entirely sensible.
So, given that you seem to be inferring that atheism is an ‘interest group’, where abouts is the atheist version of the ACL? Hmmm, how many ‘large atheist institutions’ attempt to exert undue influence upon social policy?
I suppose that you may be asserting that I’m a ‘proselytising atheist’? Don’t be coy, you rarely are. I don’t take you for a spineless yapper from behind the heels of others comments; unlike el gordo.
Earth is observable & real, religious faith is a figment. Fairly straight forward. Hardly contentious.
My comment was a simple observation that the religious like to use ‘religion’ as a smear against others. I find that comical.
“Whether consciously or not we all have a framework of assumptions, beliefs and prejudices through which we approach the world.”
Indeed. But suggesting that believing that ‘The Sky Is Blue’ is in no way synonymous with believing ‘The Man In The Sky Is Watching & Judging Us’, in so far as beliefs go. The burden of proof isn’t even on the same scale.
Give me reason any day. Theism relies upon the suspension of it.
Hmmm nothing.
…Whether consciously or not we all have a framework of assumptions, beliefs and prejudices through which we approach the world. The most deluded and dangerous are those who don’t even recognise this and think that they are perfectly rational.
They are the people under mental health care sb!
Don’t assume that people who are committed to preserving the environment and politically opposed to your ideology are deranged or deluded. That’s an easy and cheap shot and if you believe that you are truly deluded. It might be the bolt meme, but he’s just a right wing shock jock in print, paid to inflame, divide and incite the ignorant or the lazy thinker.
” People believe what they want to believe and facts are irrelevant.”
Especially people like you, Neil.
To thinking people however, facts are not irrelevant.
“To thinking people however, facts are not irrelevant.”
Humans are tribal. TB is hyperventilating about unemployment being at 6% which is as low as it got under Hawke/Keating. Swans last prediction is that it would be 6.25% by now.
Unemployment increased from 4.3% to 5.8% under Rudd/gillard meaning several hundred thousand people lost their jobs since 2007.
To thinking people however, facts are not irrelevant.’
Facts can be distorted and replaced with new believable facts, then news can be twisted and bent to give a slant.
Facts can be distorted and replaced with new believable facts
yes, they are called lies
l`m surprised our resident feminista hasn`t had anything to say on the new Lambie thread 🙂
https://theguttertrash.com/2014/07/23/jacquie-lambies-massive-cock-up/
In the context of ‘religion’, there are few ‘facts’ but multitudes of ‘inventions’.
In the context of the observable physical world, there are myriad facts; their interpretation being subject to reasoned analysis.
Fuck Theres nothing left I need a saline drip… for fuck sake don’t call a priest this all gave me the shits and I don’t think my ass could take any old time religion…
Neil, I could accept your comment if you added a few words to it…
“Some ignorant People believe what they want to believe and facts are irrelevant to them.”
”””””””””the electorate is deliberately kept unaware of the religious influences and affiliations of politicians. No it’s not blissful ignorance, people want to know these things and they are not informed, they are deceived.”””””””””
#agree, and it also makes so-called democracy largely a failure(by its own metrics) to many, un-informed democracy only offers non-choices
‘yes, they are called lies’
Not necessarily, facts can be interpreted in different ways with a dash of omission, so that what is presented as news is only half the story, yet still technically correct.
””with a dash of omission,””=Lying By Omission #teabags
The Guardian practices the sin of omission.
Gillard supported Combet as PM – she really did just want to f**k the ALP.
http://www.news.com.au/national/julia-gillard-was-prepared-to-back-greg-combet-for-labor-leadership-in-2013/story-fncynjr2-1227000689624
Is going to be speaking at the Star Wars convention too..I heard that’s a very popular fairytale franchise too 🙂
Fresh Bucket please…
Is it a bit strange that barely a week after the loss of MH017 the Ukraine decides to test out the aim of the separatists and in the process get 2 fighters blown out of the air ?
And from what I’ve read no sign of the pilots who “ejected”
Have I missed something ?
We’re they captured or was someone after a ” Gotcha” whether they got that or not ?
l`m surprised our resident feminista hasn`t had anything to say on the new Lambie thread 🙂
deliberately ignoring it, teabagz
I get tired of being the resident feminista, expected to comment on every gender issue [and sometimes being baited to do so]. I’m not that way in my real life, I do have feminist ideals and will promote womens views and defend them, but the issue does not consume my being.
I also like to see the male contributions before it gets bogged down by any gender wars.
Thirdly, I sometimes just can’t be bothered.
My personal view is – why is society so shocked when females talk about sex and/or objectify men? Has the earth dislodged from it’s axis or something? It happens all the time from men but women have been conditioned that they can never show interest in sex or it will have consequences, sometimes dangerous ones.
The male in the interview seemed to be having a good time in his sexual banter with jackie, but this only reflected badly upon lambie as somehow immoral or a loose and indecent women, slutty even, did they have the same opinion of the male? Sex talk offends the wowsers who probably thought she talks like a prostitute and should be representing the sex party.
The question asked of her “would you like us to find you love, like a bachelorette” would never be asked of a male politician giving his personal history, the interview would have been kept dignified and solemn, even sympathetic, would never have gone into a dating profile, and, most male pollies would have had the sense to leave it alone, they would have been way too gutless to answer the question. Similar to when the question was asked of gillard “is your partner gay?” no male pollie would have been asked that.
I thought she played up to the interview with mischievous humour, but she should have had the sense to know it wouldn’t go down well with some folks and that it would be used against her politically.
I also think that the shock, horror was because she voiced the unthinkable – penis size and male performance, I could almost visualise some packages shrivelling as she spoke! 🙂
‘good’ women aren’t allowed to behave like that are they?
But yes, the same standards should apply to female politicians as the males, which I assume is why she has publicly apologised.
Put in perspective, women still have a very very very, long way to go to catch up to men regarding sexism.
Might have gone down OK in the pub though, her ballsy approach would’ve got a laugh from me.
”””’no sign of the pilots who “ejected””””
abc1 news said, 2 jets shot down, 1 pilot known to eject,
(not known if pilot is `prisoner`, `dead` or `free`)
# l hope Bangkok is withstanding the blubbering
”””packages shrivelling as she spoke! 🙂 ”””
nation-wide package shrinkage for sure 🙂 🙂 🙂
.
”””she has publicly apologised.”””
l reckon she should have told the wowsers to get stuffed, they won`t vote for her anyway, and the rest won`t give a shit in 6-years
‘Put in perspective, women still have a very very very, long way to go to catch up to men regarding sexism.’
I agree, unfortunately males have been psychologically programmed and biologically constructed to think of sex all the time. Its fair to say that if females enjoyed sex as much as males then the battle of the sexes would never have erupted.
‘What Abbott has exposed this week more than anything is the complete vacuum of leadership Australia had been living under in the six years of Labor government.’
Simon Benson / Daily Terror
“if females enjoyed sex as much as males”
Huh?????
I mean as often, like Bonobos.
Egg I thinks you should stop habitually having sex with yourself Quoting Simon Benson who asserts that we have a great leader in Abbott who is putting the spine in Obama is like saying that Ivan Milat was a great ambassador for tourism …delusional willful fibbery bordering on insane.
“Simon Benson who asserts that we have a great leader in Abbott who is putting the spine in Obama is like saying that Ivan Milat was a great ambassador for tourism …delusional willful fibbery bordering on insane.””
Yeah………………………..Abbott and Bishop deserve no credit at all.
Even that right wing nut job Bill Clinton praised them.
“if females enjoyed sex as much as males”
I think Egg is trying to say if only females could see sex as much more of a recreational/hedonistic activity as males do rather than attach so much emotional stuff to it.
Say………getting your rocks off just for the sake of getting your rocks off
Or something like that
Yeah Walrus Abbott is a real
opportunistic ideologic pugilistinternational statesman. Gladwrap diplomacy…Like everything Abbott a thin, transparent temporary film tenuously used to reheat old leftovers that melts and breaks when the heat is applied, 🙄Yeah…….I’m with you Ricky……………Abbott’s mate Murdoch clearly controls the Dutch Foreign Minister as well.
I mean he must do. Otherwise why all that praise from the Dutch.
Bloody Rupert !
‘Or something like that.’
Yes, well put.
I don’t think that abbott has gone in and sorted the whole world out. I think he and his murdoch mates have been talking him up like crazy, seizing the moment to get a temporary increase in the polls and he’ll milk it for all it’s worth. Big talk here in australia is a lot different to butting chests with vlad and obama on the world stage. Suddenly abbott is the messiah – I don’t think so.
I think Egg is trying to say if only females could see sex as much more of a recreational/hedonistic activity as males do rather than attach so much emotional stuff to it.
yeah, like why would I want to have sex with someone that I really don’t even like right now 😉
And Egg I don’t know if you have ever been to Bangkok but I was wandering down a lovely street market and all the Thai girls were saying Ï love you long time”and Ï love you short time”.
They were just so friendly over there and clearly not as hung up about sex as Aussie girls are
I think it was called Patpong Road or somethin’…………………………..:)
“”………….like why would I want to have sex with someone that I really don’t even like right now “”
LOL
And …………………””will he still respect me in the morning ?””
perhaps abbott could turn his mind to the israeli occupation and the slaughter of palestinians.
And …………………””will he still respect me in the morning ?””
Plus, if you want exercise try running around the house with a vacuum cleaner or taking the kids out for a play?
“or taking the kids out for a play?”
What, like Les Miserables? You must have very cultured kids… 🙂
Try using horticulture in a sentence..
You can take a horticulture but you can’t make her think….
‘perhaps abbott could turn his mind to the israeli occupation and the slaughter of palestinians.’
If Abbott was really a world leader he would create a Palestinian State in the middle of Australia and end this carnage.
AO They are really milking this horrible disaster because its convenient. Its a look over there moment designed as diversionary sideshow in a fickle attempt that people will forget about the miserable budget…. Israel? Abbott couldn’t tie his shoelaces without the simplicity of velcro, he has a Power pissed Attorney General (who thinks that a military dictator title) sorting out the whole situation with a rather stern new title
Abbott couldn’t negotiate a fblowjob on Patpong road in a suit made of 50’s handing out diamond rings and visa’s..if its not attack he’s fucked, its not in his vocab.
He thought he was taking the kids to a play about horticulture but alas it was just sexpo.
Horticulture has gone to pot, it’s become fashionable for the hawty culture.
The oldest one –
“You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think”
‘designed as diversionary sideshow in a fickle attempt that people will forget about the miserable budget…. Israel?’
It was not designed.
What is it with the left and conspiracy theories?
Abbott has spoken severely about the involvement of Russia in MH17 and has expressed sympathy about the loss of life.
I really can’t see much to be critical about.
I suppose if your political opinions are motivated mainly by wishing him more failure, then no doubt there are some nitpicking criticisms to be made.
Toillette … ya gonna love this …
http://www.news.com.au/sport/boxing/poland-team-fighting-championships-bring-street-fighting-into-the-ring/story-fndkzthy-1227001059614
Noice to see my comments struck a chord with the shrill comments coming from the schoolboy …
FYI, Kneel, it was Abbott and Hockey saying they could “manage” the economy better than the previous ALP government and “the adults were now in charge” … not seeing it …
Abbott has spent more time (and our money) sorting out problems for Malaysian Airlines than problems for Australia …
… I suppose in the scheme of things .. its easier – get the script, look it over, call the press conference, read it out (watch, he reads every word) and crawl back into obscurity …
… as for the Treasurer, he’s out signing copies of his autobiography (somewhere) … does that mean:
His life or career is about to end?
He needs the money?
Or we don’t pay him enough to WORK for the TAXPAYERS?
… and playing up the “dramas” doesn’t really work at the polls – just ask Anna bLie …
Abbott & The Acolytes – not a government’s arsehole …
Abbott has spent more time (and our money) sorting out problems for Malaysian Airlines than problems for Australia …
The abbott priorities have been noted, what’s $175,000 to the govt?
Heartless Abbott snubs Pararoos and disabled 12-year-old girl:
http://www.independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/heartless-abbott-snubs-pararoos-and-disabled-12-year-old-girl,6704
“I do not worship anything.”
Aw c’mon. Are you sure you don’t linger in front of the shaving mirror a little longer than is strictly necessary some mornings?
“I am rational.”
Compared to most you are rational.
But most things we say and do are a product of habit, appetite, impulse and emotion. It can’t be any other way. Life is too short. If we had to reason through every decision and action we would not survive either as individuals or as a species.
“My comment is entirely sensible.”
Not sure which one, but your comments are generally sensible, having regard to the nature of the forum. But I like arguments and even sensible comments can be tested.
“ you seem to be inferring that atheism is an ‘interest group’”
I didn’t refer to atheism as an interest group. That is an unwarranted stretch.
“where abouts is the atheist version of the ACL? Hmmm, how many ‘large atheist institutions’ attempt to exert undue influence upon social policy?”
They are everywhere. Richard Dawkins travels the world hot-gospelling to cheering crowds of atheist true believers as he did at the Melbourne Atheist Convention a couple of years ago. There are all manner of Rationalist and Humanist Societies, Sydney Atheists, Progressive Atheists and the Secular Party. I’m sure you could find something to suit your tastes.
“Earth is observable & real”
I don’t think that statement is contentious except among idealist philosophers. It is certainly not something denied by most religious believers. In fact Dr Johnson, a prominent Christian, when asked to comment on idealism, famously said “I refute it thus” as his foot rebounded off a large rock that he had just kicked.
As to “observable”, merely observing the universe is all well and good. But until we know where it came from and how it came into being then people will guess and many of those guesses will be categorised as religious. Some guesses will be more plausible than others, but until then we won’t know
“religious faith is a figment”
That is a fairly tautologous comment. Acts of faith involve, by definition, some element or step which is not ultimately provable. If something is believed as an act of faith, say that god does or does not exist, then I guess you could say it is a figment.
“Give me reason any day. Theism relies upon the suspension of it.”
I like reason. Reason can take us a long way. The important thing is to understand its limits. The post-modernists had it right when they realised that strict logic can only take you so far – basically mathematical propositions and logical syllogisms. The big question is what do you next to figure stuff out. Reason has a role to play but it can’t provide certainty. We can be quite comfortable with the physical sciences* but by the time we get to the preachings of the victim studies faculties we are mired in the deeply irrational.
Theism is a fairly wide category and not all types of it rely on the suspension of reason. Consider the eighteenth century deists like Jefferson, Franklin, Maddison, Hamilton and Thomas Paine.
*When the scientific method is discarded we get politicised charlatanism dressed up as science, like theories of innate racial superiority or climate “science”.
more updates:
http://www.independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/gillard-accuser-deserts-michael-smith-over-kathy-jackson,6706
http://www.independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/kathy-jackson-and-the-peter-mac-fix,6697
Abbott – a statesman as a horticulture.
They are everywhere. Richard Dawkins travels the world hot-gospelling to cheering crowds of atheist true believers as he did at the Melbourne Atheist Convention a couple of years ago.
so, that makes one person who is…everywhere!
There are all manner of Rationalist and Humanist Societies, Sydney Atheists, Progressive Atheists and the Secular Party. I’m sure you could find something to suit your tastes…
And I’ll bet they have nowhere near the same media profile as the ACL. Can’t think of any particular time that those groups have been quoted in the media or have lobbied the government. They get zero attention paid to them.
“I suppose that you may be asserting that I’m a ‘proselytising atheist’?”
Not at all. I can’t recall you proselytising and I don’t know if you are atheist or agnostic or even if you have a particular view at all. You may not like some organised religions, but that is a different point.
There are plenty of people around who because of prejudice, personal experience or just plain cussedness cannot discuss religion without vitriol or spittle-flecked invective. That is a shame, really. And it is the opposite of a rational approach. Religion is and has been a huge part of the human condition from the very beginning of humanity. It is a vast and endlessly fascinating topic. It takes a particularly arrogant and small-minded strain of bigotry to dismiss the whole with a mindless rant and a few shouted epithets. [And no, this is not directed at you, TBoss, or anyone else in particular. I’m just noting a trend.]
“FYI, Kneel, it was Abbott and Hockey saying they could “manage” the economy better than the previous ALP government and “the adults were now in charge” … not seeing it …”
Well Swans last prediction for unemployment was at 6.25% by now. So it is lower than Swan predicted.
I am just glad that the people who think money grows on trees lost govt last year.
“They get zero attention paid to them.”
Obviusly they are not heard in your echo chamber.
When the scientific method is discarded we get politicised charlatanism dressed up as science, like theories of innate racial superiority or climate “science”
utter garbage, completely fallacious and devious to stick together a truth and an untruth in the one sentence and pretend they are one and the same.
Climate science is the result of the scientific method and is provable, based on measurable evidence. Religion is accepted entirely on faith and belief as is climate change denial. The argument against is a political one and born of conservative ideology, the inability to accept evidence that challenges and threatens their entire worldview.
There are plenty of people around who because of prejudice, personal experience or just plain cussedness cannot discuss religion without vitriol or spittle-flecked invective. That is a shame, really. And it is the opposite of a rational approach.
You can be quite rational and still do all of the above, just because you don’t like the method of communicating their message, doesn’t make them irrational in thought. They are allowed to show disgust anger and bitterness because of their personal experience.
Otherwise we would have discounted almost all of the comments you have made here sb 😉
Do you think the anger, vitriol and hostility coming from victims in the RC into CSA is simply irrational thought?
“Do you think the anger, vitriol and hostility coming from victims in the RC into CSA is simply irrational thought?”
No. It is a necessary process both for the church and more especially for many of the victims to tell their story and to be heard with respect. Anger is part of their story but in most cases the predominant tone has not been vitriol. That shows that there are a lot of people out there much better than you or I, KL.
Where did you get that communications masters in a mini bar packet of cornflakes
The reaction by Credlin and the directorate for propaganda is milking this harder than you self gratifying backstage at an Monkton gig…
Credless:
Wow look at this tragedy , We can hide the tragedy or your fucking budget in this tragedy for a while…now Wingnut its showtime, gert on the doge and bone and call Putin…act tough and don’t stammer or say to much, I’ll call Rupert and tell him we are gonna make your sorry ass look like a big tough leader you fucking imbecilic bitch ..now suck mummies cock
Phoney: Yes Dear..does this mean I can have my balls back?
FFS Squeal stop tossing over Swan and Kouk the’re strait and outta your league
No that would be denialism, the only science discarded is the science of sane critical thinking by a minority that can’t get their head around the fact that they are irrefutably and unequivocally peer reviewed done and dusted wrong… I guess you can bask in the comfort that Despot General Bandas gave licence to be a complete fucking tool even though it involves defecation and gang rape of the planet.
It takes a particularly arrogant and small-minded strain of bigotry to dismiss the whole with a mindless rant and a few shouted epithets. [And no, this is not directed at you, TBoss, or anyone else in particular. I’m just noting a trend.]
My, my, Mr Wolf, what a wonderful “way” with words you have … said Little Red Riding Hood …
Chuckle … the question begs why?
Surely, TB, you are not suggesting that I have a teensy tiny tendency to shrill, hysterical overgeneralisation? You must have me confused with my learned colleague Mr Pann.
Surely, sb, your not putting words in my posts and manipulating my thoughts to reflect your own … ?
I was simply asking a question … based upon the first sentence of your earlier paragraph …
… it seems you imply that “non-believers” are arrogant and small minded … and the opposite applies to believers, humble, open-minded …
… that concept fascinates me, being a young bloke and an agnostic, my limited life experience has demonstrated quite the opposite so far …
Just sayin’ …
Over Exaggerate in relation to the depths of inflated generalisation and truth in relation to Abbott. I actually think I am understaing his fucktardery.. I will grab a handful of denialist from Egg as the truth about what Abbott and these fucking Evil teabag fucktards is too scary to actually contemplate..
For all we know Commander Credilin has to foil General Bandis and Comendant Abboutt Farce’s plans to invade Russia with their new F35’s 🙂
‘The reaction by Credlin and the directorate for propaganda’
You give her too much credit.
“it seems you imply that “non-believers” are arrogant and small minded … and the opposite applies to believers, humble, open-minded”
Why, oh why, am I so misunderstood? I didn’t say any such thing.
I’m pretty sure there are arrogant and small-minded people on every side of every argument. No side has a monopoly on that. So also are there humble and open-minded people on all sides.
‘… it seems you imply that “non-believers” are arrogant and small minded … and the opposite applies to believers, humble, open-minded …’
Those who believe in man made global warming are narrow minded and arrogant, while those who believe global cooling is just around the corner, feel humbled.
TB is agnostic, Ricky is a true believer.
Thanks for the considered replies, splatter.
I certainly make a distinction between theism & deism.
(Death cults: making privileged claims over all natural persons and their lived (after-)lives since whenever; bless their little white socks, divine ritual fetishes, irreplaceable community services, prolific reeducation sites, and especial contributions to mature debate(s) in the secular, pluralistic, liberal democracies of the 21st Century.)
I certainly make a distinction between theism & deism.
And Dickwits® and Dickheads© as I recall, Toillette … often quite difficult here …
” If something is believed as an act of faith, say that god does or does not exist, then I guess you could say it is a figment.”
I have to answer that!
I find it amusing that the probability of god existing or not is somehow conflated to being equal.
IMO, that is a ridiculous proposition. One ‘possibility’ requires rather more ‘blind faith’ than the other.
I can’t ‘prove’ god doesn’t exist anymore than you can disprove the existence of the tremendous flock of talking sheep which live in a pine forest nearby to me, but whom will only speak to me.
As I see the world, if something can’t be entirely explained ‘therefore god’ is just lazy thinking. Also, there need not be a definitive answer to existence’s ‘origin’ to discount man imagined deities. Do animals have deities? they seem to exist along with us. The more religiously complicated you make it, the more absurd the proposition.
” Religion is and has been a huge part of the human condition from the very beginning of humanity. It is a vast and endlessly fascinating topic.”
Absolutely…and I do enjoy picking over the carcass of its credibility! 😉
I’m not trying to stamp it out. Most of my commentary is related to drawing attention to the absurdity of it.
Finally, I don’t see elected members of the government or opposition, or any policy makers for that matter, kowtowing to Richard Dawkins et al.
Institutionalised religion is far more profligate & aspiringly influential than atheism.
I think the religious see vocal atheism as a threat & deride it in overstated ways primarily because they’ve held sway for so long that they’re not comfortable with having their beliefs critiqued in the public sphere.
Interesting, as always, IvIeta.
“The second theory holds that there was never any single technological or cognitive revolution. Proponents of this view argue that modern human behavior is the result of the gradual accumulation of knowledge, skills and culture occurring over hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution.”
I suppose the ‘second theory’ resonates with me…but, having only been conscious for the better part of four decades now, I can’t prove that either.
Being able to communicate complexity to eachother & pass shit on has probably brought us to where we find ourselves today. Certainly, starting from scratch (ie, no accumulated knowledge to draw upon) would set us back a few millennia!
The points of contention are what makes it all so interesting.
“Because reason…is the only thing that makes us men, and distinguishes us from the beasts, I would prefer to believe that it exists, in its entirety, in each of us…”
― René Descartes
With each new breakthrough in technology we became more aware of our potential. The brain of a stone age person was no different to modern man, its just that the pace of technological advancement has been gradual until recent times.
So now we stand on the threshold of space and the probable recognition that we are not alone. Its the glorious uncertainty that makes life so worthwhile.
100 consensus on that Splatter..
Overwhelming scientifically Peer reviewed consensus on that too from 95% of credible scientists that don’t get paid to squeak through the teabag filter
No her marionette Phoney does…
What an arrogant thing to say coming from someone who can’t even organise a blog with the communication skills of a garden gnome without a single scientific qualification whatsoever..
Yes Egg as opposed to a untrue deceiver..pretty sure based on the evidence that the world is actually round and evolution is real too. I am as I openly state an atheist, a man who researches fact the ultimate skeptic if you will. There is fuck all to refute the argument of a man made global warming because like gravity rational people just accept its a scientific fact as opposed to walking like lemmings off cliffs trying to fly hoping dog will save them like some caped crusader because they talk to themselves.
‘What an arrogant thing to say….’
Your comments are arrogant.
‘There is fuck all to refute the argument of a man made global warming ….’
What about the hiatus?
all atheist`s don`t belong to a said `group` or club, l am a non-believer and don`t have a `membership` to anything,
holding-up dawkins as the atheist poster-boy is a little bit bullshit,
dawkins atheist/science/whatever `group` is a by-product of the dog-club cranks injecting dog into science classrooms, if the cranks didn`t do that in the first place, the `dawkins-group`(which seem to be made up of a lot of teachers and scientists and associated industry, plus non-believers) wouldn`t exist,
as far as l`m concerned, only imbeciles scream about `by-product_groups` such as dawkins, unions, safety-groups, consumer-groups, as they are really usually fighting injustice in the system where Govt has vacated the field
“There is fuck all to refute the argument of a man made global warming because like gravity rational people just accept its a scientific fact ”
Hard to argue against that since kangaroos , buffalo, squirrels, polar bears, pandas, birds. Dolphins, my sashimi tomorrow ie tuna, plus oh whatever have never been able to measure if your statement is true or not,
Can someone tell me why the ice bridge between the British Isles and European Continent is no longer there.
Was someone burning too much wood in the Caves
What I find amusing whenever I go to Asia is that people like you YES you Ricky want to impose an economic impost on those who use rice husks to cook and heat but YOU won’t give up the same Western Standard lifestyle that you deny the Worlds poorest.
That makes you and your fellow travellers true fucking hypocrites
Oh my first paragraph is a bit sarc
In fact the Greenies in places like Nimbin are the only Greens I actually kind of respect.
At least a lot of the Live The Dream
The rest of you are full of Cheap Worded Bullshit
Act don’t teach !
Well Walrus if you want to look at the world as your own personal toilet with no consequence whatsoever to the multitude of large corporate polluters that will not change their business practises because it will collapse the mighty free market then fine..by all means wallow in your own shit.
If you think that its perfectly acceptable to conveniently deny that there is and has been for the past 20 years an alarmingly serious global pollution problem then fine…
People like myself..yes me.. that would be moi and the rest of the sane people on this planet who actually give a flying fuck about the shit that you brag about in that view you are so fond of every waking day care not to ignore the irrefutable fat that this problem is getting worse…It is a fact that unless you make it expensive to pollute , people will just keep doing it…its human nature, Avoid the science, say its inconvenient unfair, stifles competition, they do it more than me, its not my fault whatever the fuck lame assed lazy denilist fucktarery you want to jerk to make yourself feel better…Guess what..It dont mean jack shit ..
I mean I’m sure you and egg are out there taking core samples and studying plankton in your spare time to disprove and castigate people who dedicate their lives work to humanity..but hey what the fuck lets go with 2 blokes in a blog who have all the answers…..that seems sane and rational…hey what? You know what, I’m happy with the information I have at the moment thanks.. I went and talked to a few experts and some skeptics too..all of them were scientists… If I need my tax done or some super maybe i’ll give you a buz, but climate science, i’m pretty Ok with the info I have the moment thanks all the same….
So when are you movin’ to Nimbin ?
Don’t move to Thailand or Cambodia though
They just don’t do MAN MADE climate change as a subject very well.
Ummmmmmm
Tell me why did that Ice Bridge recede before the industrial revolution please ?????????????????????????????????
Tell ya what Why don’t you move to Nibin you fucking tosser…
So let me get this right… If I cant explain to you why an iceberg has or hasn’t melted (not being a climate scientist , Paleoclimatologist or atmospheric physicist and all) that is irrefutable prof that Climate change is bullshit…
You are most certainly a bigger fucking idiot than I give you credit for..
Stick to accountancy sport…leave the science to professionals ….Go over into Eggs pit and have a toss with him…Hypocrite? I bow before your overwhelming example?
Ricky you and your ilk can scream and squawk as much as you like from your silly inner city covens but you never give the Third World any other answer other than
“Sent from my iPhone”
And I guess at hazard of “not wildly generalising” in being insensitively presumptuous bordering on profoundly pompous or anything you would know exactly how I; as part of your assumptive “ilk” think? ..
You know rounding down the whole climate change issue down to an iceberg or a three word slogan. That the thing about people who live in the lies of extremist political discourse on both side of the divide…Its all about the assumption that anyone that disagrees or disrupts their lies is one of them or of that ilk…..
People like Rieth lobbying for CSG and saying that anyone opposed to it is economically irresponsible when he is not a scientist nor can give a stone clad guarantee that it is safe and not destroy our food supply….. The Third world? Well if you take China pulling itself out of abject poverty to industrialisation, there has been a huge environmental cost and alternative energy may be the only way they can progress without destroying their ecosystem…..
This is the same guy who kept calling me a Commo and a leftie saying I don’t care about the third world? How much of the stuff you buy is eco or trade friendly Wally…Its consistently on my radar.
I guess the Markets reaction rises above all rhetorical bullshit… The Kouk is seldom wrong and thats why teabags hate him, the truth is a bitch…
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/25/four-facts-show-carbon-tax-not-damaged-australia?CMP=soc_567
Warning Zombies..
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-23/zombies-of-the-week-warren-truss-catherine-king/5618302
The Kouk is a nutcase. The statistics her cites have about as much correlation to the Carbon Tax as the migration of whales along the east coast.
How about drawing a correlation to aluminium smelters which use energy ?
“The Kouk is a nutcase”
No he is not. Koukoulas is a highly intelligent human being. Unfortunately he is using his talents for evil purposes.
Koukoulas is the most dishonest person i have ever read. And of course he is a Labor Party supporter.
Looks like most of the corrupt, dishonest, immoral scum who exist in Australia support the ALP.
So if the All Ords has risen 35 points and GDP growth has in fact risen consistently at 5% how is that not relevant? …If they had both fallen the Noalition would be shrilling it like Squeal at a Wayne Swan Concert.
Aluminium smelters? Well lets be realistic, like building cars the raw materials are more valuable than a completely non-viable energy intensive and highly toxic business model where we cannot compete in price parity on world’s major markets.. thats your free market capitalism you teabags love so much Darwinian in nature and based upon the ridiculous premise of infinite growth.
‘You know rounding down the whole climate change issue down to an iceberg or a three word slogan.’
This is unavoidable because we are talking about something that is complex…. the science. I’ll leave it there.
I havent seen you thesis Egg nor have I read any of your peer reviewed papers Pretty damn sure you are just a bloke in a blog and not an anthropologist climate scientist , Paleoclimatologist or atmospheric physicist.Love to see you mix it at the Kenso campus with the big boys… you know in the real world out of the safety and anonymity of the blogosphere. Kind of like why Dolt loves to be the rockstar for deniers but wont debate anyone of note on the subject for longer than three minutes ambushes where he talks over people and surfaces everything with smart assed comments…
Pretty sure with a honours degree in EE I can get my head around “the complex” I just wont engage with you as you have “0” credability only opinions in the area just like media..
You know its forbidden to talk about the science outside the cone of silence, but do give some thought to the hiatus and why is it so?
🙄
What I find amusing whenever I go to Asia is that people like you YES you Ricky want to impose an economic impost on those who use rice husks to cook and heat but YOU won’t give up the same Western Standard lifestyle that you deny the Worlds poorest.
yes we will, we will simplify our lives, tighten our belts and vote to pay a carbon tax or ETS to reduce the carbon intensive emissions from our country. We will opt for clean, renewable energy to stop our pollution affecting poorer countries. A few weeks doing charity work in asia by rich people who do nothing to stop our pollution is just self satisfying, feel good stuff. Why not work toward lessening the threat that will really impact upon poorer nations/people?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/copenhagen-consensus-center-climate-change-costly.html
…”Most countries benefitted from climate change until 1980, but after that the trend is negative for poor countries and positive for rich countries. The global average impact was positive in the 20th century. In the 21st century, impacts turn negative in most countries, rich and poor.”
While climate change has continued to increase global average GDP, this has come at the expense of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. This isn’t a surprise, given that the poorest countries, who contribute the least to the climate problem, are the most vulnerable to climate change…
but do give some thought to the hiatus and why is it so?
it deserves no thought, there isn’t one
wiki is your friend
…Pauses are part of natural climate variability, and their existence does not refute long-term climate change trends.[5][6] Also, other means of measuring climate change exist besides global mean surface temperatures, such as sea level rise, which has not stopped in recent years,[7] as well as continuing record high temperatures and Arctic sea ice decline.[8][9] Short term hiatus periods of global warming are compatible with long-term climate change patterns.[10]…
you’ve still got nothing but you keep trying to push your shit uphill
take it all to your back room.
The SS bible is pathetic, do try a little harder.
The SS bible is pathetic, do try a little harder.
Continually dredging up stupid stuff that has been discredited and refuted a thousand times as if it were even an issue or relevant to anything does yourself no credit, it just confirms you to be a shameless propagandist of the highest order. You embarrass yourself. Go and trot your rubbish into a real climate science site and see how you get on [we all know that won’t happen, you’d rather jerk off here]
‘You embarrass yourself.’
Not really.
Global cooling is coming, are you ready?
AO why bother 🙄
l agree with armchair,
””””””””””doing charity work in asia(#3rd-world) by rich people who do nothing to stop our pollution(#damage) is just self satisfying, feel good stuff. Why not work toward lessening the”””’damage in the first place, while in the position of power, instead of doing all you can to create damage.
#damage being both environmental, and economic done to poor/weak #teabags
”””the existence of a celestial teapot is neither provable nor unprovable.”””
oh silly, you muddled it up, its a celestial tea-caddy, not teapot,
of course it exists, where do think all the teabags come from.? 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
(of course it exists, where do think all the teabags come from.?
No idea.)
That was nice Meta.
‘As a note for anthropologists and ethnobotanists, the Australian Aborigine
did not take any of the plant species that produced hallucinations apart
from the rare use of Corkwood which might be a delusinogen.’
Author unknown
bump