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Terror Threat Raised to Eleventy!

September 15, 2014

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The following article us by Greg Barns, a barrister and a spokesman for the Australian Lawyers Alliance…

Today’s announcement by Prime Minister Abbott that he is raising Australia’s terror threat level from medium to high should be treated warily. Politicians have a habit of raising fears of terrorist attacks on Australian soil when the evidence suggests that this is a case of rhetoric and reality not meeting eye to eye.

Back in November 2005 former Victorian Premier Steve Bracks and Police Commissioner Christine Nixon announced that an imminent terrorist attack on Melbourne had been thwarted by the arrest of a number of young men and a self-styled sheikh in Melbourne.

I acted for one of those men in a subsequent Supreme Court trial in 2008 and can tell you that the evidence presented to the court in that case suggested nothing of the sort.

There was no planned terrorist attack by members of this group, just chatter and some bonding activities that made the police and ASIO nervous about their intentions.

Simply because ASIO and police might have heard some talk about terrorism and terrorist attacks by individuals does not mean that those individuals have any means of carrying out an attack.

But it will be enough for ASIO and police authorities to jump and tell the PM that a terror alert ought to be issued, because these organisations are suspicious by nature and often read more into things than might actually be the case.

The Prime Minister says that there are people with the “intent and capability” to carry out a terrorist attack in Australia. Of course there are. There always have been and there always will be.

Whether that intent amounts to anything and whether the capability is actual rather than simply perceived by jumpy spooks is the question. If no attack is imminent and Abbott says it is not, then why bother to make the announcement?

For political reasons that’s why. Nothing like panic and fear to trample liberties and freedoms.

Remember the aftermath of 9/11 when the Coalition and ALP both supported appalling new laws that criminalised thought and word in the guise of offences such as support for a terrorist organisation?

This time around Attorney-General George Brandis wants the Senate to pass laws that would see journalists and editors in jail for revealing illegal activities by ASIO and which would protect ASIO from scrutiny when it bugs phones of foreign leaders (as it did in Indonesia) or bugs the cabinet rooms of a neighbour (as in East Timor).

Mr Brandis has also mooted draconian powers, such as cancelling passports of Australians travelling to Iraq and Syria if ASIO thinks they might be supporting ISIS in some way.

One of the consequences of Abbott’s scare politics will be increased harassment of Australians from the Middle East and of Muslims.

The racism and prejudice of Australia is unfortunately tattooed across the underbelly of this land and as we saw when the Howard government reacted to 9/11 it did not take much for irrational attacks on Muslims and Australians from the Middle East to ramp up.

Work carried out the years after 9/11 by Edith Cowan University found:

As a result of personal experiences, Australian Muslims seem particularly susceptible to feelings of fear and anxiety about being objects of concern and suspicion in an increased security environment.

Be very aware of the possibility that the Prime Minister’s announcement today is not based on the strongest of evidence but is rather politically useful.

Some of us have seen terror threat announcements before and we know that this is an area where politicians and some in the media don’t mind gilding the lily.

 

 

 

 

 

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284 Comments leave one →
  1. September 15, 2014 10:12 am
  2. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 10:28 am

    This pretty much sums it all up 😦

    http://www.afr.com/p/national/cartoon_gallery_david_rowe_1g8WHy9urgOIQrWQ0IrkdO

  3. Walrus permalink
    September 15, 2014 10:38 am

    “”I acted for one of those men in a subsequent Supreme Court trial in 2008 and can tell you that the evidence presented to the court in that case suggested nothing of the sort.””

    Maybe……………………..but not very innocent as the above blog post would like you to believe……

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/terror-five-wont-renounce-jihad/story-e6frf7kx-1111118070436?nk=c399817e610d715ee92165868c448e28

  4. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 15, 2014 10:41 am

    This is just like Clinton’s wag-the-dog moment when he attacked Bin Laden to distract attention from the Lewinsky scandal. Everyone can now see that he over-reacted to the threat pose by Bin Laden. The intellectual establishment was right – there was really no threat, no threat at all. Just like now.

    Because all the buffoons hopping into Abbott know the real level of threat and are calling him out. They are most certainly not of that base political ilk which attacks absolutey everything he does without any rational basis for their mewling.

  5. egg permalink
    September 15, 2014 10:54 am

    Bewdiful Splatter

  6. TB Queensland permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:26 am

    Reflective Conclusion:

    Never before has there been so much scum and shite float to the surface in politics, big business, union leadership and organised religions ….

  7. Walrus permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:46 am

    I agree Splatter,…………..Abbott is just incredibly persuasive.

    How else can anyone explain Abbott being able to get the US and UK leadership and their military on-board to run decoy by bombing the crap out of a few black clad Jihadists just so Abbott can hide away his Budget problems.

    It must drive our resident Stadler and Waldorf (TomR and TB) stark raving mad

  8. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:52 am

    I was thinking the same thing, TB. But then back in the day we had Brian Burke, Bob Askin and Jo Bjelke-Petersen as well as sleaze like Lionel Murphy, Rex Jackson, Laurie Brereton and the ALP pedo club.

  9. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:55 am

    And besides, Walrus, even if some thing happens, let’s put it into perspective. If an attack killed and maimed a couple of hundred people that would be a fraction of the annual road toll. Obviously we should defund our security services and spend the money saved on roads and fast trains. Obviously.

  10. TB Queensland permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:56 am

    … just so Abbott can hide away his Budget problems.

    What? You think life just stops ’cause Abbott wants to play warrie … half way around the world?

    Simply committing 600 personnel and a few F18’s to a coalition requested by Obama doesn’t constitute a fkn Churchillian war hero … he’s as dense and stupid as he ever was … the smoke and mirrors may fool you … probably only need a little puff of smoke …

    At least you recognise that the Budget has problems and Abbott is responsible …

  11. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:57 am

    wally, I haven’t said there is no need for us to help out in Iraq. What I have said is from day one, tabot has amped this up to eleventy, and led with the gun. As he has initially with the Syrian “baddies v baddies”, the Ukraine, and now this sudden switch to a “witches brew of complexities” (amongst baddies and baddies apparently?)

    Which made this quote quite remarkable in it’s context.

    Mr Abbott praised Mr Obama’s response to the threat posted by Islamic State, also known as ISIL, which he said had been “calm” and “measured”.

    “President Obama, as you know, has not been quick to reach for the gun here,” he told the Seven Network.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/there-are-clear-and-achievable-objectives-in-iraq-says-tony-abbott-20140915-10gykz.html

    And now, we have this

    Sydney in the firing line of Islamic State fanatics: Police escalate search for five rocket launchers

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/sydney-in-the-firing-line-of-islamic-state-fanatics-police-escalate-search-for-five-rocket-launchers/story-fni0cx12-1227058405350

    The sheer brazenness of this “look over there” is just breathtaking.

    This doesn’t mean that I don’t support us helping out in some way. I’m just not convinced of the path, as yet.

    And Shorten and Labor are letting us all down by their me-tooism by just jumping on board, without asking quite pertinent questions, like, “is there another solution than just carpet bombing people?”

  12. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:58 am

    ‘We were only chatting about a terror attack on Melbourne…as a type of friendship and bonding’

    That makes me so much more relaxed.
    ======
    I got on a plane to Sydney last night. Security confiscated some nail scissors from my toiletries.

    This alert is an outrage!

  13. TB Queensland permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:59 am

    “I was thinking the same thing, TB”

    But you still only managed to name six, sb …

    Just sayin’ …

    “… and fast trains”

    Nah … decent airports … we don’t all want to sit in “fast” trains for a couple of hours … Japan is a lot smaller than Oz … 🙂

  14. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:59 am

    he’s as dense and stupid as he ever was … the smoke and mirrors may fool

    how true, then again …..

  15. TB Queensland permalink
    September 15, 2014 12:07 pm

    ToM, I told you the other da,y the attacks have begun on Melbourne …

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/melbournes-sewerage-system-clogged-by-fatberg-warns-yarra-valley-water/story-e6frflp0-1227046044212

    Once analysed you can bet that the fat will be caused primarily by goat fat and kebab leftovers … so fkn subtle, hey?

    How to bring a city to its knees (sarc alert) …

  16. egg permalink
    September 15, 2014 1:27 pm

    ‘Nah … decent airports … we don’t all want to sit in “fast” trains for a couple of hours …’

    The idea would be to build new cities beyond the Great Divide, so that its only a 20 minute ride to work.

  17. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:02 pm

    … just so Abbott can hide away his Budget problems…

    funny that

    Hockey faces his Wayne Swan moment:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-15/verrender-hockey-faces-his-wayne-swan-moment/5743202

    …With prices already about 15 per cent below the yearly average and with iron ore accounting for the largest share of the commodity index, that feeds directly into our terms of trade. Alarmingly, the terms of trade are declining much faster than Canberra anticipated, with reports Treasury is scrambling to recast its forecasts for the mid-year update.

    So how should the Abbott Government respond to this looming revenue crisis? It could stop cutting revenue sources for a start…

  18. egg permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:05 pm

    ‘doesn’t constitute a fkn Churchillian war hero …’

    Its not about him, Bill would do the same.

    Should be easy to root out IS from Iraq, then we can chase them all the way into Syria if the dictator agrees. If he doesn’t, then there will be no alternative but to take him out as well, but China says we should hold Asad’s hand and avoid that dilemma.

  19. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:08 pm

    So how should the Abbott Government respond to this looming revenue crisis?

    With their megaphones of course 😉

  20. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:12 pm

    He wants to shake your hand not be patted on the head as you stare at camera.

    fkn poser

    Abbott’s Top End trip: PM plans to run Government from tent during week-long NT visit:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-13/abbott-to-camp-in-arnhem-land/5741340

    …Mr Abbott is expected to camp outside the town of Nhulunbuy, 600 kilometres east of Darwin in a remote pocket of the Northern Territory.

    The site being prepared for his arrival holds a profoundly important place in history for the Yolngu Indigenous community…

    Hardly ‘mixing’ it amongst the locals!
    roll ’em camera – how big will his entourage be and what exactly will he achieve?

  21. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:21 pm

    That’s a pretty interesting list of moneys taken out of the pie there ao in your link @ 2:02 pm

    It has celebrated its first year in office by removing the carbon tax – which would have provided $6.6 billion in revenue – and replacing it with a direct action policy that will cost $2.55 billion.

    In addition, the deal it struck with Clive Palmer ensures many of the carbon tax compensation payments remain in place.

    A fortnight ago it eliminated the mining tax, a deeply flawed tax designed by BHP, Rio Tinto and Glencore Xstrata, to ensure they paid virtually nothing. Now they’ll pay absolutely nothing.

    And one of the first actions Hockey took on his ascension to power was to hand the Reserve Bank $9 billion, a decision that provided a direct hit to the budget bottom line and one he would be ruing now.

  22. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:25 pm

    hard to comprehend the incompetence tomR

  23. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:30 pm

    I’m sure there’s madness to method ao

    The economy will sink further, blamed of course on Swan and greedy workers looking to gouge the poor mining magnates, and conditions will be lowered to suit. No minimum wage will be the saviour of the economy (who needs fiscal management when you have a huge pool of funds like wages to dip into?)

  24. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:30 pm

    Quote of the day though.

  25. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:38 pm

    I thought it wasn’t possible for brandis to look even more ridiculous, but he has exceeded himself. I suppose the rusted ons might gulp it down without choking if they try hard enough.

  26. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 2:47 pm

    the libs spivs are going all out on the war footing

  27. September 15, 2014 3:03 pm

    “He wants to shake your hand not be patted on the head as you stare at camera.”

    He’s not “patting him on the head,” he’s given’ him a healing’….!!

  28. September 15, 2014 3:04 pm

    “it’s a humanitarian mission with military elements”

    ROFL…!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/sep/15/first-dog-defence-minister

  29. September 15, 2014 3:08 pm

    “BLOW THEM TO HELL”

    seems reasonable.

  30. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 3:09 pm

    A-G Brandis says we’re not at war: “it’s a humanitarian mission with military elements”

  31. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 3:13 pm

    BLOW THEM TO HELL

    Sounds like something Charlotte would say cum to think of it 😯

  32. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 3:19 pm

    The orange high viz vest is out in full force.

  33. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 3:47 pm

    It’s still got some way to run yet

    http://www.citypress.co.za/news/state-vs-oscar/

  34. egg permalink
    September 15, 2014 4:13 pm

    Blow Them To Hell

    72 Hot Virgins

  35. egg permalink
    September 15, 2014 4:34 pm

    This new theatre has all the hallmarks of jingoism, but in the modern era our brave boys are bounty hunters in a desert landscape, using state of the art weaponry to destroy the IS terrorists.

    The first stage should be a piece of cake, but if they hide amongst the civilian population in Syria it would open up a can of worms.

    Methinks the broad coalition would settle for containment and avoid collateral damage.

  36. TB Queensland permalink
    September 15, 2014 5:43 pm

    Can anyone tell me how many troops the Arab countries will be fielding in this humanitarian aided WAR … with no end (apparently)

    And if there is no exit strategy (according to Abbott) … who did the CBA? (The libs seemed to be big on that a year or so ago …)

    http://www.news.com.au/national/prime-minister-tony-abbott-defends-new-iraq-mission-against-islamic-state/story-fncynjr2-1227058579637

    This Federal Government (and the boofheads on the other side) seem to think we only pay in “time” … its called “blood and treasure” for a good reason …

    And, egg, STFU!

    I know people in uniform and the ME is just a friggin’ meat grinder!*

    *And a couple who LOST THEIR LIVES there … just like VN my two mates DIED there for SFA!

  37. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 5:49 pm

    Be prepared to clean up a lot of litter next to the bin qld govt!

  38. September 15, 2014 6:04 pm

    Because all the buffoons hopping into Abbott know the real level of threat and are calling him out. They are most certainly not of that base political ilk which attacks absolutey everything he does without any rational basis for their mewling.

    Look I an so disgusted by this situation that I will actually REFRAIN FROM COMMENT Surfaced to say that if even fucktoid Nonce Squeal cant stick up for Abbott kind of says it all really

    Abbott really is so cluelessly inept that you could not even make up half the shit he does, its just the unwanted shit gift that keeps giving in spades.
    On this occasion he has actually taken it to a new level and dangerously outdone himself.

    Why do people hate Tony Abbott so much? It saves time.

  39. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 6:27 pm

    oh no he didn’t, did he? 😦

  40. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 6:56 pm

  41. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 7:27 pm

    😕

  42. September 15, 2014 8:02 pm

    I mean WTF?

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott has warned Australian Muslims they will be acting “against God” if they join Islamic State and said they would find themselves in more danger as a result of the Australian military being deployed to help destroy the militant group.

    Branis as usual treating people like they are stupid and lying through his teeth
    Attorney-General George Brandis said the mission would take an “unspecified and potentially quite long period of time”

    “The suggestion that comes from simple minded people like Senator Milne that this is like 2003 when there was actually an invasion with the advertent purpose of regime change couldn’t be more wrong,” he told the ABC.

    “I don’t think it’s correct to describe what we are speaking of as a war, it is a mission, it is essentially a humanitarian mission with military elements of course,” he said.

    Don’t think people are buying it though 🙄

  43. Tom R permalink
    September 15, 2014 8:12 pm

    it is a mission

    We’re on a mission from Rod!

  44. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 9:43 pm

    oh no he didn’t, did he?

    yes he did, he said it was “against god…and religion”

    whatever that means and why would anyone care anyway. Lucky I’m not religious because his god sermons just have me switching off.

    Whose god does he mean, his or theirs? there’s so fkn many of them, they can’t all be the one true god.

    if he wants a religious war he can do it on his own with all his godbothering mates strapping on the boots and guns and leave the rest of us alone. Onward christian soldiers, marching off to war!

  45. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 10:50 pm

    best #qanda ever!

  46. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 15, 2014 11:41 pm

  47. egg permalink
    September 16, 2014 6:58 am

    ‘Whose god does he mean, his or theirs? there’s so fkn many of them, they can’t all be the one true god.’

    The Jews were the first to come up with a singular deity, then Jesus took advantage, followed 500 years later by Mohommad (sic) who absorbed a lot of the christian shit.

    So technically speaking its the same dog and IS has been getting their messages from the Medieval Koran which is out of date. As you all know modern day Islam is a religion of peace, so Abbott is correct.

    Personally I prefer a pantheon of dogs, for reasons beyond the scope of this comment.

  48. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 8:08 am

    The Jews were the first to come up with a singular deity

    One day you’ll say something correct, today is not that day 😦

    Whose god does he mean, his or theirs?

    Considering he tried to ape what the Malaysian PM said (Whyalla anyone?), I would hazard a guess he meant Allah, Malaysia being a predominantly Muslin nation, although I’m not sure tones understands that.

    So, when the Malaysian PM says it, you can understand the context that ISIS are using THEIR god (yea yea, they’re supposedly one and the same) for nefarious purposes. tabot appears to misconstrue that, and plays straight into ISIS hands. Yes, it is now JIHAD.

    Well done you dopey tool.

  49. September 16, 2014 8:09 am
  50. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 8:17 am

    The request bush made perhaps 😉

  51. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 8:35 am

    How true, and obvious

    The obvious answer is that austerity was never about tackling public debt. It was not even a political campaign to end the ‘culture of entitlement’. In the UK, in the eurozone, and now in Australia, austerity is, and always was, a thinly disguised campaign of invoking fiscal prudence and public virtues in order to indulge private vices and redistribute entitlements at the expense of the majority.

    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/austerity-comes-to-australia-lessons-from-the-eurozone/5684176

  52. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 9:41 am

    … thinly disguised campaign of invoking fiscal prudence and public virtues in order to indulge private vices and redistribute entitlements at the expense of the majority.

    Haven’t some of been saying that for some time now?

    People just don’t immediately see the bleedin’ obvious most of the time … and can think only as far as the next meal (that’s if they can afford one, in the Age of Disentitlement)

  53. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 9:43 am

    Correction: I didn’t know the young men who died in Afghanistan … I met their parents …

  54. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 9:48 am

    Haven’t some of been saying that for some time now?

    Yes, but you don’t have a nationally syndicated paper to spread your wisdom across the front pages for chattering classes TB (mores the pity) 😦

    Unfortunately, those that do are financed by the spivs who make up a large proportion those “private vices” spoken off.

  55. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 9:59 am

    A good article on the submarine issue

    The last of a new class of Japanese-built submarines might not even be delivered until 2035 or 2040. How sure can we be that within that time Japan will no longer be a US ally? That it will not have restored its long-standing ban on defence exports? That it will not have become a compliant neighbour of a predominant China, or on the other hand have become China’s bitter enemy? What would happen to our new submarine capability in any of these contingencies?

    This is the essential reason why the Japanese submarine idea is so ill-judged. Buying our submarines from Japan at a time when Japan’s own strategic future is so uncertain, imposes an immense element of risk for the future of one of our most critical military capabilities.

    And there are several perfectly good alternatives. Some of them would even allow us to build our new submarines in South Australia, in a way that did not sacrifice our defence needs. The Abbott government has not yet seriously considered them.

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/japanese-submarine-option-oddson-favourite-20140915-10gz7m.html

    And that is without considering the levelness (or not) of the playing field. Why are the Japanese ready and willing to invest dollars to keep manufacturing in their country, but we are not?

    The submarine Kukoryu was made by Kawasaki Heavy Industries and is said to be made with leading edge technology, costing Japanese taxpayers a hefty 53.4 billion yen (around US$540 million).

    http://japandailypress.com/japan-launches-newest-submarine-kokuryu-amid-party-atmosphere-0438960/

  56. egg permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:06 am

    Thanx TR, Zoro does appear to be the front runner.

  57. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:09 am

  58. Walrus permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:09 am

    “”oh no he didn’t, did he? “”

    And so did this PM too………………………so what’s your point ?

    Or perhaps its just more of the double standards from you extreme Lefties

    ‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.’

    – Kevin Rudd

  59. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:18 am

    so what’s your point ?

    Because, wally, tabot is using this in the context of a Jihad war. Which is just what ISIS want.

    He’s off on a friggin’ crusade, not discussing domestic politics like Rudd was, he’s unleashing the Rods of war with a biblical fervour.

    Keep fucken religion out of it. From our side, at least, for Rod’s sake 😯

  60. Walrus permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:19 am

    “”Why are the Japanese ready and willing to invest dollars to keep manufacturing in their country, but we are not?””

    Because theirs is viable…….ours is not.

    How many Collins Class submarines did we end up selling to other governments ?

    Australia has a submarine force to defend Australians………..not employ them.

    And since when did the Left give a fuck about the Defence budget. You ripped the heart out of Defence and border protection in Office so don’t now carry on with this bullshit about a submarine program. Your previous actions in relation to Defence speak for themselves.

    And that article with its attempt to look 20 years ahead in time is just stupidity writ large. You could say that about anything sourced from overseas.

  61. Walrus permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:26 am

    “”Which is just what ISIS want.””

    Well that’s actually good and who cares what they want anyway.

    If they want to believe that they are doing it all for Allah (entirely illogical to us) then it should be easier to despatch them and their horrid caravan of families post haste to their garden full of virgins.

  62. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:27 am

    Because theirs is viable…….ours is not.

    Is that because it is funded by their Government, whereas ours is about to not be?

    How many Collins Class submarines did we end up selling to other governments

    How many submarines have the Japanese sold to other governments?

    Australia has a submarine force to defend Australians………..not employ them.

    Why not both?

    You could say that about anything sourced from overseas.

    Are you now arguing for them to be built here? 🙂

  63. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:31 am

    (entirely illogical to us)

    tabot appears to disagree

  64. September 16, 2014 10:41 am

    Australia has a submarine force to defend Australians………..not employ them.

    Such a cynically micro “accountancy” view of the situation… augmented by a “only the right can save us” mantra.

    Take your blinkers off Wally, its big picture stuff.
    Downstream Value Add to the South Australian and Australian economy, strategic military imperatives, not adding to that deficit that you teabaggers froth into an emergence, So many advantaged can be derived from building here verses enormous drawbacks and potentially dire consequences of offshore outsource solution

    No question that lying scumbag Abbott bribed Japan with a sub carrot to sign that bullshit trade agreement.

  65. Walrus permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:43 am

    “Are you now arguing for them to be built here?”

    No………………..I’m pointing out how stupid the argument in the article actually is in trying to throw up hypotheticals.

    We might also be all wiped out by an asteroid ………………..

  66. Walrus permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:46 am

    “”.not adding to that deficit that you teabaggers froth into an emergence””

    Its $20B cheaper

    “”Abbott bribed Japan with a sub carrot to sign that bullshit trade agreement.””

    Largely negotiated by the ALP

    Psssssssssst……………………………your mate TB likes that ETA

  67. egg permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:50 am

    ‘Abbott bribed Japan with a sub carrot to sign that bullshit trade agreement.’

    Even worse, my crystal ball sees Jap Maglevs being built in SA.

  68. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:53 am

    Its $20B cheaper

    Show me the numbers. Or are just going on what the libs have said?

    Largely negotiated by the ALP

    Without caveats like “we’ll kill our automotive industry so you can sell here easier” and “yea, we’ll buy your subs!”

    Easy to see how they could wrap it up so easily in that light 😉

  69. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:57 am

    Yeah, that local terrorist threat certainly has the Army worried … there goes that fkn Blackhawk over our house again … time 10.54 am … mmm a few minutes early today …

    G20 is when again?

    GMAFB!

  70. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 11:08 am

    Most Australians believe in God

    Is that actually true in 2014?

    https://www.cra.org.au/belief-in-god-is-the-%E2%80%98new-atheism%E2%80%99-influencing-australians/

    • 21% said they don’t believe in God now and never have;
    • 16% say they don’t believe in God, but used to;
    • 4% say they believe in God now, but didn’t used to;
    • 39% say they believe in God and always have; and
    • 20% said they could not choose or did not answer the question.

    And the irony of the Dog Discussion above is that Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the same dog … you know the friendly, compassionate, understanding dog … its the prophets/messiah that they all seem to piss on each other with …

    If religion is so good for people … why do they have to be so aggressive and cruel … where’s the love and caring for one another?

    Hypocrite Pie anyone …

  71. September 16, 2014 11:09 am

    Its $20B cheaper

    Yeah and Joe’s a good treasurer, Tony’s honest and there is a emergency where the moon is made of cheese. A rhetorical byline in the terrorgraph is not an actual costing you know right?

    We might also be all wiped out by an asteroid ………………..

    More chance of that than
    A: Terror attack
    B: Fibreals winning the next election
    C: This ramshackle lot telling the truth about anything

    Psssssssssst………………your mate TB likes that ETA

    I’m not..they are way dodgy..especially with a corrupt country like Japan

    Even worse, my crystal ball sees Jap Maglevs being built in SA.

    Just fuck off troll 🙄

  72. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 11:11 am

    Isn’t it ironic that the major contenders for OUR submarines are the Germans and the Japanese … don’t mention the war!*

    (*sarc alert – and for anyone new to TGT, my best mate is called Wolfgang!)

  73. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 11:13 am

    you know the friendly, compassionate, understanding dog

    As did the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland.

    To me, religion is just another excuse for the release of anxieties as Babba Zanetti was wont to say.

  74. September 16, 2014 11:27 am

    Isn’t it ironic that the major contenders for OUR submarines are the Germans and the Japanese

    They will no doubt have Israeli guidance systems which is Israels major export.

  75. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 11:27 am

    Largely negotiated by the ALP

    Psssssssssst……………………………your mate TB likes that ETA

    You really do twist the trewf, Wally … or not comprehend very well or probably both …

    1. I have always disliked FTA (or ETA – or whatever this years acronym is) you may have read what I think of Amazon and its tech limitations … on occasion. And we all know how well the FTA works with TV series and films …

    2. My comment re the ETA with Japan was aimed at the Abbott Contingent taking CREDIT for some one else’s work … IE the ALP …

    Either way the ETA is a sham …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Even worse, my crystal ball sees Jap Maglevs being built in SA.

    That would be one of those Crack’d Liberal Party Crystal Balls sold off after the 2007 election …

  76. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 11:41 am

    Well that’s actually good and who cares what they want anyway.

    Well no-one arguing agin’ you or Abbott, Wally … but people like yourself and Abbott are overtly giving IS exactly what they want … recognition … with that comes converts, money and support …

    What I hope is happening is a covert, coalition, operational well plan hidden behind the bluff and bluster coming from Australia (nowhere else)

    Stick to counting money not international strategy … your as hopeless as your fearful leader …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    On a serious note, it still fascinates me how history repeats itself … if the ME were Europe in the 1930’s then … this could relate to the Spanish Civil War … the present for religious/political power the latter (past) for political/economic power …

    Will the whole ME erupt as Europe and then the World did in 1939?

  77. egg permalink
    September 16, 2014 11:59 am

    ‘That would be one of those Crack’d Liberal Party Crystal Balls sold off after the 2007 election …’

    No, I have a new model.

    ‘Will the whole ME erupt as Europe and then the World did in 1939?’

    Unlikely, because it would be counter productive. Going after IS is the equivalent of giving Hitler a king hit in a German pub and avoiding world war.

  78. Walrus permalink
    September 16, 2014 1:24 pm

    “”……………, operational well plan hidden behind the bluff and bluster coming from Australia (nowhere else) “”

    One of these days TB you’ll actually say something that is correct……………………….one of these days it’ll happen

    “”Vice President Joe Biden on Wednesday said America will follow the terrorists who posted videos showing the beheading of two journalists “to the gates of hell.”……….””

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2014/09/03/biden-terrorists-gates-of-hell/15025875/

  79. Walrus permalink
    September 16, 2014 1:27 pm

    “”Will the whole ME erupt as Europe and then the World did in 1939?””

    No !

  80. September 16, 2014 1:36 pm

    I mean No Photoshop required .. the Picture that never gets tired

  81. Fair Trade permalink
    September 16, 2014 1:49 pm

    This morning I was lucky enough to be able to buy several cases of ammo.

    On the way home I stopped at the petrol station where a stunningly gorgeous blonde was filling up her car at the next bowser.

    She looked at the ammo in the back of my ute and said in a very sexy voice, “I’m a big believer in barter. Would you be interested in trading sex for ammo?”

    “What kind of ammo is it?”, I asked.

  82. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 2:14 pm

    “So I’m looking for a girl with a gun and a job”

  83. September 16, 2014 3:18 pm

    “What kind of ammo is it?”, I asked.”

    LULZ…..

  84. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 3:28 pm

    Interesting result, and that is on the assumption that they will be cheaper.

    28% support the Government buying submarines from Japan if it is cheaper than building them in Australia

    http://essentialvision.com.au/documents/essential_report_140916.pdf

  85. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 16, 2014 3:54 pm

    Maybe the ADF should be off to war, it might stop them brutalising their own colleagues

    Sailor raped by colleagues during brutal ritual on naval ship, court told:
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/16/sailor-raped-by-colleagues-during-initiation-court-told?CMP=soc_568

  86. Walrus permalink
    September 16, 2014 3:55 pm

    “”Interesting result, and that is on the assumption that they will be cheaper.””

    Actually not really that interesting since Essential never gets it right anyway. Besides if you told them it would be $20B cheaper I”d say you’d get a different result.

    And there is no doubt it would be cheaper since the SA shipyard basically has open ended access to taxpayer funds………………….. just business as usual with constant catering to union demands

    So how many Collin’s Class have we sold overseas ?

  87. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 16, 2014 4:52 pm

    Well this is one of the few things i agree with the ALP ( I think). I think we should build the subs in Australia. I can see the logic however of buying them off the shelf like we do with the F35’s for example. Too may obvious reasons to list.

    But the money stays in the country if we build them here. But of course can we build them?? The Collins spends most of its time under repair/service.

    If we build them in Australia i would have one rule. When the sub is launched and goes out for sea trials the Union rep and some of the Union members who built the sub are on the boat. So if it sinks due to shabby work the Union rep and some of the Union workers go down with the ship.

  88. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 4:56 pm

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/maritime-unions-consider-457-appeal/story-e6frfku9-1227059994767

    So how do “successful” 457 applicants read WH&S information … how do supervisors pass on/receive information … workplace communication skills are essential for a safe and productive workplace …

    And what a bout all the Australian mining employees now out of work …

    What planet do these Fuckwits™ live on … ?

  89. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2014 4:56 pm

    I’m not in favour of the standard default positions re Iraq/ISIL. In summary-
    *We’re a US lackey and always do as they tell us
    *Abbott is just playing politics with war
    *It doesn’t involve us

    Obama made getting out of Iraq his election centre piece. He’s hardly likely to be persuaded to go back if there was another way to deal with that quagmire.

    I’m entirely uncomfortable with us entering the region a decade ago promising a better life for the people of Iraq, then departing. After which thousands of religious zealots take over with a ‘convert or die’ approach to their nation building.

    That the regard rape and sexual enslavement as spoils of war provides some justification for involvement too.

    Opposing these expansionists isn’t about politics.

    Iraq involves us because we helped f**k the place.

  90. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2014 5:02 pm

    That was all a little clumsy in expression, but (to anyone who reads it) you’ll get the point…

    I’m not comfortable about participating in regime change with the promise of a better life, then leaving it to some violent religious nutcases.

    ‘convert or die’ isn’t what we committed to deliver.

  91. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 5:03 pm

    Actually not really that interesting since Essential never gets it right anyway.

    Thank goodness we have Sir Walter Rightly with us here tonight! 🙄

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The Collins spends most of its time under repair/service.

    Mmmm …

    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/collins-class-submarines-are-performing-despite-naysayers-20140122-318pi.html

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/12/1034222635806.html?oneclick=true

    And they were commissioned in 2000 (for operational service)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins-class_submarine

  92. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 5:12 pm

    … ‘convert or die’ isn’t what we committed to deliver.

    We? Are you going back, ToM?

    The problem in the ME is one for the Arab nations to sort out not the West … it always was … how many troops are committed from the Arab nations to this little humanitarian war of yours … ?

    Apparently we can find $250, 000, 000 every six months from our overstrained budget/economy … to fight someone else’s war – again!

    If we got it wrong the first time, what makes you so sure we’ll get it right this time?

    The military serve … we rely on ignorant (in the true sense of the word) politicians to make these decisions … but who dies …

    After a century nothing has really changed …

  93. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 16, 2014 5:21 pm

    Did you read your Wiki link?? The first sub was commissioned/built/finished in 1996. Why was it not approved for operation until 2000? There was a time under Rudd where not one sub was able to put to sea. They are incredibly complex things to build.

    But i think we should build them in Australia but perhaps build one every six years so the production line is operating continuously.

    And like i said, have the Union rep on board when it goes out for sea trials.

  94. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 16, 2014 5:56 pm

  95. Walrus permalink
    September 16, 2014 5:57 pm

    “”Well this is one of the few things i agree with the ALP “”

    Quick reb…………….send Neil’s IP Address to the NSW Police……………………clearly he has been kidnapped by a crazy Leftie who is obviously holding a loaded gun to his head as he sits at his keyboard and posts.

  96. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 16, 2014 6:01 pm

    More than 60% of the voting population of Iraq that got purple dye on their fingers so they could vote even though the jihadists promised to kill them for doing so. Their bravery has been betrayed. The CoW left too early and should have stayed on as a stabilising influence.

    More importantly, Australia has an interest in all of this as well. It is asinine to believe that this is merely a Middle Eastern problem. The world isn’t that small any more and the ambitions of Islamic State are global. They should be denied a foothold anywhere. And then there is the matter of their inhuman methods. On any view taking down Islamic State is a worthwhile objective. In the short term this may reduce the danger to those it would enslave or kill, including us. But this is just a minor skirmish in a very long war.

    The underlying problem is the desire to establish a Caliphate along the lines of the first generations of Muslims, using the means they employed and imposing that primitive version of Sharia law on the rest of the planet. No matter the fate of Islamic State, that idea is not going away any time soon. In comparison, seeing off Hitler’s dream of a thousand year reich or the idea of a communist international are relatively easy tasks.

    If Islamic State ceases to exist there are plenty of other salafist jihad groups who will continue striving to the same end – like al Shabaab, Boko Haram, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Moro Islamic Liberation Front, Jemaah Islamiyah, the Taliban, al Qaeda and its branches in the Islamic Mahgreb and the Indian Subcontinent, Moro Islamic Liberation Front, Abu Sayyaf and many others. This 1,500 year old hydra has many heads and even if we lop a few off, the battle will continue for generations.

    The most we can hope for is that there will be some practical relief to those who would otherwise fall victim to Islamic State, that its organisation is degraded so that it can’t support actions against Australia and the West and that many jihadists are killed.

  97. September 16, 2014 6:25 pm

    “he has been kidnapped by a crazy Leftie who is obviously holding a loaded gun to his head as he sits at his keyboard and posts.”

    That does seem like the only rational explanation….

    Unless he’s concussed or something’ ?

  98. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 16, 2014 6:31 pm

    The most we can hope for is that there will be some practical relief to those who would otherwise fall victim to Islamic State, that its organisation is degraded so that it can’t support actions against Australia and the West and that many jihadists are killed.

    How about accepting them here, that’s the most practical help isn’t it? We are over there for years bombing their place and meddling in everything we can, propping up one despot after another. Yet when the direct result of all that comes knocking on our door after a dangerous journey by leaky old boat, we tell them to piss off, get back to your living hell.

  99. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2014 6:58 pm

    ”Apparently we can find $250, 000, 000 every six months…

    But the 8 times this amount – we spent installing roofing insulation, then removing it, was money well spent.

    We went over there promising to do some really great things for the people, then it got difficult and unpopular, so we pissed off.

    The government has asked if we would go back and help them fix up the f**king mess we helped create.

    I’ve got a bit of an ethical problem with saying no. But they’re only my ethics, yours are apparently different. I don’t have any great problem with that.

    ”If we got it wrong the first time, what makes you so sure we’ll get it right this time?

    I’m not suggesting there are guarantees, but I don’t like expansionist, violent religious zealots, who rape, slaughter and enslave as their form of nation building.

    We helped give them a leg up, it’s best that was help try to rectify some part of the debacle.

  100. egg permalink
    September 16, 2014 7:02 pm

    ‘I’m not comfortable about participating in regime change with the promise of a better life’

    There will be no regime change, the democratically elected government of Iraq invited the world in for a bit of biff.

    Iran said they won’t join this coalition of concern, because the yanks are dirty. They in turn said we never invited them in. Who to believe?

  101. egg permalink
    September 16, 2014 7:04 pm

    Also, Ji is showing signs of being the antichrist.

  102. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 7:04 pm

    Why was it not approved for operation until 2000?

    You expect me to do your research AND answer your fkn questions … ask the Liberal Party … or Wally … he knows everything … who was in power after 1996?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    It is asinine to believe that this is merely a Middle Eastern problem.

    Why thank you … wonderful way to have a – what was it you said a few days ago … a meaningful discussion, or something …

    https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=asinine+meaning

    And then there is the matter of their inhuman methods.

    So why not invade Mexico (and many other countries around the globe) … the drug barons were doing this long before IS … just not with Westerners’ heads and photographing it … we’ve been taunted and we have been deliberately sucked in … (well some of us – not the asinine ones … apparently)

    The underlying problem is the desire to establish a Caliphate along the lines of the first generations of Muslims, using the means they employed and imposing that primitive version of Sharia law on the rest of the planet.

    But if the Imams here and overseas object to IS … as they do … even Al Qaeda as I understand ??????? They will eventually “object” with force …

    And you think that the Catholic Church wouldn’t like to rule the World?

    If Islamic State ceases to exist there are plenty of other salafist jihad groups who will continue striving to the same end … This 1,500 year old hydra has many heads and even if we lop a few off, the battle will continue for generations.

    So let ’em slog it out with each other in the ME and protect our own borders … and then take on the last one standing (if you must) … what your suggesting is not a hundred years war but a thousand years war … costing a lot of our young people’s “blood and treasure” …

    The Libs keep burbling about spending the next generation’s income … and we have this …

    … protecting Iraq is not the same as WWI and WWII “protecting the Mother Country” …

    that its organisation is degraded so that it can’t support actions against Australia and the West and that many jihadists are killed.

    You sound like a WWI Pommie general … “just keep sending ’em over the top, old boy, eventually we’ll wear ’em down … now where’s mi G&T, boy!”

    Funny how those of us who don’t believe in a dog are agin war and the dog botherers are all gung ho!

    This should be a case of not fight harder … fight smarter … but no, off we go, gung ho with no real plan …

    … or you could set up another Crusader Brigade … I know where you can get some cheap sheets with red crosses on ’em …

  103. egg permalink
    September 16, 2014 7:09 pm

    ‘fight smarter …’

    Yep, that is what this is all about.

  104. TB Queensland permalink
    September 16, 2014 7:13 pm

    We went over there promising to do some really great things for the people, then it got difficult and unpopular, so we pissed off.

    Don’t be naïve ToM, the YANKS (George W Bush Jr – in particular) went there to protect their oil reserves!

    Powell lied to the UN! With falsified photos! Where is the evidence of WMD!

    And who made the “promises” …

    I objected to the Invasion of Iraq because of the above! Did you!

    I bet Wilkie is experiencing a very long ground hog day right now …

    I’m not suggesting there are guarantees, but I don’t like expansionist, violent religious zealots, who rape, slaughter and enslave as their form of nation building.

    And … not only am I asinine but that comment suggests I do like what’s happening …

    And what you describe has been going on for decades in Africa … and before that it happened in the Americas and before that in Europe …

    Russia lost 26.6 million people in WWII alone … the country that really won WWII …

    When I see some Arab State backbone then I’ll believe that they have a right to assistance from our young men and women … until then … our ADF is being treated like a mercenary force …

  105. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 16, 2014 7:21 pm

    “You expect me to do your research AND answer your fkn questions … ask the Liberal Party … or Wally … he knows everything … who was in power after 1996?”

    I think the answer is in your second link

    A 1999 report by the then CSIRO chief, Malcolm McIntosh, and former BHP managing director John Prescott said the Collins’ combat system should be junked, the vessels were noisy and vulnerable to attack, their engines broke down regularly, a badly shaped hull and fin made too much disturbance when they moved at speed under water, the view from the periscope was blurry, the communications system outdated and the propellers were likely to crack.

    Building of the submarine started in 1990 and was completed in 1994 but was not ready for service until 2000 because of “problems”

  106. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 7:21 pm

    So how many Collin’s Class have we sold overseas ?

    How many subs have the Japs sold? (I asked you this before also, to crickets)

    Unless he’s concussed or something’ ?

    Indiscernible from a leftie then 😉

    We helped give them a leg up, it’s best that was help try to rectify some part of the debacle.

    Sad but true. We (not collectively) were told that what we see now was a possible outcome of the illfated Iraq escapade MkII. It’s really only right we try and fix it, or, help fix it.

    our ADF is being treated like a mercenary force …

    It is a play thing of the libs. This time, however, it is trying to clean up the mess the last lot left. Well, that is the stated aim. As long as they keep emperor abbott away from megaphones, we have a chance of that. Thank Rod Obama is there, trying to work with the other countries in the region, and not another neo-con warmonger like tabot

  107. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2014 7:25 pm

    TB, you’re inclined to argue that if we help Iraq avoid the “convert or die” brigade we should-
    • Invade Mexico
    • Figure out why we didn’t invade some parts of the African continent
    • Or America
    • Or Europe

    I don’t recall us going to all those parts of the world telling the population that we would give them a better life and lots of freedom.

    When we** displace a despot and allow some violent, expansionist, uncompromising religious nutcase a run, we have a moral obligation to help fix up the problem.

    But they’re only my morals.

    **(yes “we” because the government acts on our behalf, and I know you prefer the collective commitment model)
    ———–
    ”And you think that the Catholic Church wouldn’t like to rule the World?

    TB, where are the Catholics currently practicing the “convert or die” model of recruitment?

  108. September 16, 2014 8:25 pm

    Nice Cameos….

  109. September 16, 2014 8:26 pm
  110. egg permalink
    September 16, 2014 8:30 pm

    ‘our ADF is being treated like a mercenary force …’

    The professional ADF is not a mercenary force. I know somebody in the airforce who has just been posted to Dubai, apparently there is some kind of flap on.

  111. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 16, 2014 9:13 pm

    The government has asked if we would go back and help them fix up the f**king mess we helped create.
    I’ve got a bit of an ethical problem with saying no…

    We?
    Not sure the australian population has been asked. Our nation goes to war on the say so of one man.
    Too much power in too few hands, it should at the very least be debated in our parliament when other people’s kids are sent to a possible death. It’s a joke.
    If there are some deaths, will we have a RC into the govt policies that caused the deaths of our young men, or will we hand out some medals, call it ‘the ultimate sacrifice’ and pretend that the rest of us asked them to make that sacrifice.

  112. Tom R permalink
    September 16, 2014 9:17 pm

    it should at the very least be debated in our parliament when other people’s kids are sent to a possible death.

    Yes ao, that is what should have happened, and Labor should have used the opportunity to ague the case. They missed an opportunity, all for base political points. Personally, I think they would have got more if they had led a dialogue with the voters about our actions.

    As it sits, we (collectively) are just passengers with the coalition of the conjoined.

  113. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 16, 2014 10:39 pm

    I think it is a far better process to have parliament decide whether or not we should to commit troops.

    Politically though, (on this occasion) it would be a process that would wedge Shorten. Caucus deciding a position, followed by a possible (minor) parliamentary rebellion and all the fallout associated with that, it would probably result in a political advantage for Abbott.

  114. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 17, 2014 12:16 am

    I don’t care if shorten is wedged or not, it’s not all about their party games and whether deciding something in secret is politically advantageous for one party or the other. No concern about it being discussed in an honest, open and intelligent manner in our parliament with the people hearing all the issues? That is what mature and reasonable, grown up people do who have a heavy burden of responsibility.
    We can have endless squabbles about asylum seekers and the economy, but the most serious thing a nation can do, go to war, is decided by one bloke in secret.

  115. Meta permalink
    September 17, 2014 2:31 am

    (It’s cold out there in Winter for a humanitarian; without regimened governance, regular payments, reliable energy supplies, intact hospitalities, wholesome wheat, and desired international developments…

    “The needs are enormous. A key factor in covering a significant part of the needs in this humanitarian crisis will be: the restoration of payment of salaries; the dispatching of medical supplies through the central system and; and the resumption of the Public Distribution System for food. “These actions will greatly contribute to stabilizing the humanitarian situation. Sustained funding and support will be needed in the months ahead.” UN humanitarian chief urges sustained funding to assist millions of Iraqis in need)

  116. Meta permalink
    September 17, 2014 3:45 am

    (As it sits, we (collectively) are just passengers with the coalition of the conjoined.

    Tsk, tsk. Modern, pluralistic, democratic polities founded on rule of law and free circulation of political ideas, and conscientiously considering a choice role in an ad hoc humanitarian-mission-with-military-elements, effectively may not query the neon-lit quasi-wartime-blacked-out-lights-on-the-hill; nor the robust conventionalities of secured cabinets and courtesy consultations with select Parliamentary Oppositions and none others; nor any deftly-phrased missions creeps, alone and/or in company; nor any fundamental failures to provide citizenries with the very better informations by which they might better understand, explore, and support decisions being made by, with, and on behalf of their citizenry-teams.

    Quite simply, as some inquiring minds might have observed repeatedly on this matter, and/or similar matters, brought to public attention and/or to high alert: citizens don’t know, therefore, citizens don’t know; and citizens certainly don’t know any better and/or any different; which (un)questionably is…acceptable/good/ideal/necessary/convenient/something else?)

  117. Meta permalink
    September 17, 2014 4:42 am

    (“When we** displace a despot and allow some violent, expansionist, uncompromising religious nutcase a run, we have a moral obligation to help fix up the problem.

    But they’re only my morals.”

    A game of moral musical chairs might prove rhetorically interesting, at least for Fifi or Lulu, given that acclaimed promise of Operation Iraqi Liberation seemingly remains incomplete without God-on-Our-side and/or whilesoever ISIL monsters are perpetuating a death cult of pure evil.)

  118. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 6:35 am

    secured cabinets

    Unless of course you are showing them off to everyone 😉

    Mind you, here we are being led to believe that dear leader is “roughing” it in a tent. I’d love to see the sleeping quarters they’ve arranged if the office is not actually in a tent as we were led to nbelieve. I’ll bet that’s not a tent either, even though the journos, on their nightly devotions to him, insinuate this is so.

  119. Meta permalink
    September 17, 2014 6:48 am

    (Good to learn, also, that any hypothetico-futuro-(re)commendable ‘close combat advising‘ definitively is not ‘ground combat trooping’; and presumably-inferrentially that any (re)deployed Aussie (SAS) Forces likeways will not be leaving Help-Training HQ, other than a-little-bit-maybe to securitize humanitarian aid deliveries (at last count, via chatter in the Kurdish Press, ‘we’ had delivered three installments of small arms and ammunitions, including that one installment of 50-tonnes-worth hitherto reported domestically; and any heavier munitions yet to be openly discussed, which already might or might not have been interim-dispatched by interested parties and tentatively-received by central agency compounds on location, possibly also chattered about in the Kurdish Press, have not yet actually been delivered to anticipatedly-awaiting nominated Iraqi and Kurd allies being helped to help themselves in the field, so probably don’t count); like with/in exit-strategied Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, the Horn of Africa and Africa more generally, the Philippines, any number of Central and South American Banana and/or War-on-Droogs republics, permanent-and-rotational-base-hosting-nations throughout West and East Europe, and pivotal Asia-Pacific Centuryons, possibly including honourable submarine helpmates, etcetera.)

  120. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 7:29 am

    ‘COUNTER-terrorism teams are stopping people they suspect of having links to ­Islamic State terrorists on a daily basis at Australian airports.

    ‘Days after Prime Minister Tony Abbott committed 600 military personnel and eight fighter jets to take on the brutal terrorist group, the man in charge of protecting Australian borders confirmed a spike in the number of interceptions being carried out.

    ‘The news comes as Mr ­Abbott revealed Australia’s combat operations in Iraq will cost $250 million every six months as a “ballpark figure”.

    The Daily Terror

  121. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 8:28 am

    stopping people they suspect of having links

    read as: looks like an Arab.

  122. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 8:42 am

    Forget the fact that the visit wasn’t in the first week, as promised.

    Forget the fact that the visit wasn’t ‘every year’, as promised.

    Forget the fact that he wasn’t “roughing it” in a tent, as insinuated.

    Now forget that he can’t even hack a full week up there. Flag waving calls

  123. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 8:47 am

    More hagiography for dear leader from the unbiased media scrum

  124. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2014 8:53 am

    Australian beliefs about violence towards women:

    ► 64 per cent say it mainly happens because men can’t manage their anger

    ► 13 per cent say it mainly happens because men are under financial stress

    ► 5 per cent say it is justified if a man’s partner makes him look stupid or insults him in front of his friends

    ► 4 per cent say it’s OK when his partner ends or tries to end their relationship

    ► 43 per cent believe rape results from men not being able to control their need for sex

    ► 12 per cent believe if a woman goes into a room alone with a man at a party it is her fault she is raped

    ► 22 per cent say domestic violence can be excused if people get so angry they lose control

    ► 78 per cent say It’s hard to understand why women stay

    ► 51 per cent say most women could leave a violent relationship if they really wanted to­

    ► 10 per cent think if a woman doesn’t physically resist, even though she protests verbally, it‘s not rape

    SOURCE: 2013 National Community Attitudes Towards Violence Against Women Survey

    Welcome to the 15th Century …

    I could never understand why my mother wouldn’t leave my father either …

  125. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2014 9:17 am

    But they’re only my morals.

    You keep playing the moral card … if it makes you feel better …

    I don’t recall us going to all those parts of the world telling the population that we would give them a better life and lots of freedom.

    Well you want to read a bit more history then …

    When we** displace a despot and allow some violent, expansionist, uncompromising religious nutcase a run, we have a moral obligation to help fix up the problem.

    I think you may be confusing Iraq, with Afghanistan … we were after pesky WMD and protecting oil wells in the former … Afghanistan was to get rid of the Taliban shite – that still festers in Pakistan and will reemerge once all the CoW troops have gone …

    Your “moral” crusade creates more problems than it repairs …

    I’m afraid WWI and WWII were actually “justified” (although the WWI debacle was unnecessary) … our relationship with Gt Britain and the Empire in 1939 meant we had an obligation (in fact Australia declared war on Germany before Gt Britain) … we also had a Japanese invasion to contend with …

    Not so in the ME … the problem is one of religious sects one of them seemingly renegade ALL of them Muslims … it is in fact a civil war and they are notoriously difficult and dangerous for other states to become involved in … Afghanistan lasted for 12 years (VN was 10 years) …

    Both for naught in the end … a ROI/CBA tells you that the cost in Australian “blood and treasure” is way too high …

    Until the Muslim States show some real backbone … I for one see no reason to get involved …

    Can you tell me what military resources are being fielded from the “local” community?

    The IS has – from what I’ve been able to research about 35,000 “troops” (very few will be well trained – the propaganda we keep seeing will be a “choreograph group” for the media) …

    Not a big force in the scheme of things particularly if they do not have air support for ground troops (and its ground troops that win battles/wars) …

    Footnote) I mentioned the Mexican drug lords to highlight the fact that they too rape, torture and behead people … but we don’t invade Mexico … violence occurs all over the third world and developing nations … just because we have fkd up twice in Iraq is no reason to risk more Aussie lives … scratching at a wound does not let the body heal itself …

    Show a village how to fish and it can feed itself forever … simply provide fish for them and the village will die when you leave …

    Its not just a clever analogy … its a fact of life …

  126. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 9:30 am

    Your “moral” crusade creates more problems than it repairs …

    Let’s just hope that Obama remains “slow and cautious”, and doesn’t decide to be “decisive yet cautious”

    I for one see no reason to get involved …

    Unfortunately, I’m of the position that “we broke it, we fix it”. It would be far better if we were to do this not so much with the co-operation of the Arab States, but more under their direction. Of course, we know what the temperature in hell should be for that to occur.

  127. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 9:36 am

    ‘Forget the fact…’

    Inconvenient facts, but apart from the greenoids nobody else cares.

  128. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 9:41 am

    nope, nobody else cares

  129. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 17, 2014 9:56 am

    TB, this is my summary of your logic-

    I heard the was a murder, and a rape too, in Chicago last week and we’re not invading them
    =====

    I don’t recall-
    * Mexico requesting our assistance
    * Us offering the people of Mexico more freedom and a better life
    * Our military walking out of the place and leaving it to murderous religious nutcases

    I’m happy to leave Mexico alone, and Chicago too.

  130. Meta permalink
    September 17, 2014 10:02 am

    (Ah, err, ah, time-and-motion-budgeted secure comms says the greenoids are presently busy celebrating the fact that good, Aussie, ‘dirty’ thermal coal remains perfectly saleable to a wide variety of emerging markets.)

  131. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 10:04 am

    * Mexico requesting our assistance
    Well, “requesting” might be a rather generous way of putting it 😉

    * Us offering the people of Mexico more freedom and a better life

    No, they are actively preventing it.

    * Our military walking out of the place and leaving it to murderous religious nutcases

    Probably because we weren’t stupid enough to invade it initially.

  132. Walrus permalink
    September 17, 2014 10:06 am

    “”How many subs have the Japs sold? (I asked you this before also, to crickets)””

    Its a relatively new class with the first one only completed 4 years ago and they are currently right in the middle of their construction program right now

    If the Collins was so good we would have sold some overseas in the 24 years since the program was started.

    Here, just look at the construction program and marvel that the period between laying down the keel and launch occurs in around 18 to 20 months. Naturally commissioning comes later.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dry%C5%AB-class_submarine

    I say fuck the South Australian shipyards and its unionised workforce and save the $20B to spend on hospitals and schools. Personally I’m sick of the taxpayer bailing out your lazy mates of the MUA, CFMEU, AWU or ETU.

    You run very hard supporting corporate welfare when your unionist buddies are involved but you pull up short whenever their might be a billionaire or an ASX listed company or a farmer with a slightly less unionised workforce getting a rebate on diesel is concerned.

    Pathetic

  133. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2014 10:18 am

    I get the impression poor old, Wally, is running out of shrill krill …

    Needs a Snickers, perhaps?

    I’ve read that last para a few times now and all I get is that we should be supporting billionaires, companies and farmers and fuck anybody else … Wally must be an LNP supporter …

  134. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 17, 2014 10:19 am

    “Why thank you … wonderful way to have a – what was it you said a few days ago … a meaningful discussion, or something … “

    Sensitive little soul today, TB? Just because I disagreed with a particular view on the Middle East and called it asinine:

    “It is asinine to believe that this is merely a Middle Eastern problem.”

    Now this is a serious issue. Unfortunately your “answer” – well what about Mexico – doesn’t really add much to the discussion, does it? It certainly doesn’t constitute a logical argument.

    You might want to consider whether there are any relevant differences between the two situations (which there clearly are) and even if you can’t grasp them, whether the fact that we don’t deal with all the world’s problems means we can’t try to deal with any of them. But I’ll leave that to you. You must be really proud of the world adopted your reasoning in the case of Rwanda.

    And you might also address the other argument I mentioned – the fact that Islamic State is more than a local problem.

    The global ambitions of Islamic State and like minded organisations, the fact that a significant percentage of radicalised returnees are now in gaol for plotting terror upon their return, the fact that Islamic State now controls significant financial resources and has the capacity to do as promised, to strike at Western countries – all of these are legitimate matters for our government to consider. Simplistic isolationism is also an available option. I just don’t agree with it.

  135. Walrus permalink
    September 17, 2014 10:37 am

    “”And you might also address the other argument I mentioned – the fact that Islamic State is more than a local problem.””

    Obviously TB doesn’t actually take seriously someone clad head to toe in black wearing a mask hacking off the head of a western journalist or aid worker whilst threatening to come after you next.

    He sees nothing in those threats to worry too much about. I see it as good reason to take a carte blanche approach and to absolutely annihilate them and their accompanying caravan of feral families

    Clearly he doesn’’t read much at all in fact otherwise he’d know that this scum we are dealing with actually want to in the very near future control Cyprus, Italy and Spain.

    Yet he keeps repeating we should learn from history. He clearly thinks appeasement is some sort of hors d’oeuvre

  136. Meta permalink
    September 17, 2014 10:38 am

    (Curiously enough, ‘(il)legitimacy’ does seem a central (un)question of the intellectual rationale and principled organization of interventions; even as once and future supra-nations noted for divers historical-regional Mandates coalesce to renew affinities and to manage risks of extraventions, over time. Or, so I read: General John Allen: the intellectual US hawk leading the coalition against Isis.)

  137. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 10:47 am

    ‘…a wide variety of emerging markets.’

    So I hear, but did you know that a gang of four aren’t going to the NY CC get together?

  138. Walrus permalink
    September 17, 2014 11:14 am

    “………….John Prescott said the Collins’ combat system should be junked, the vessels were noisy and vulnerable to attack, their engines broke down regularly, a badly shaped hull and fin made too much disturbance when they moved at speed under water, the view from the periscope was blurry, the communications system outdated and the propellers were likely to crack.”

    Other than that they were a great piece of kit………as they say

    ROFLMAO

  139. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 17, 2014 11:27 am

    John Allen seems nice – a thoughtful and experienced fellow whose ideas deserve consideration. Killing lots of jihadists is a virtue in itself. But of course military action can only do so much. The real battle is one of ideas.

    Now that the Islamist Spring has been exposed as a completely misguided failure, the first order of business is to marginalise and neuter the Muslim Brotherhood and like organisations.

    The now discredited pro-Islamist Middle East Studies academic mafia should be banished from all policy roles. In particular these modern day Alger Hiss’s should be driven from the State Department. They are much, much worse than useless.

  140. Meta permalink
    September 17, 2014 11:29 am

    (Whereas McIntosh‘s legacy seems largely intact, given a reported surrounding matrix of empirical trial, I’m not sure reliance on Prescott alone is entirely wise.)

  141. Walrus permalink
    September 17, 2014 11:48 am

    “”Killing lots of jihadists is a virtue in itself.””

    It sure is. I do hope he packs plenty of napalm canisters and deals out an absolutely excruciatingly painful death to his targets. Much the same as a death by decapitation that a blunt serated steak knife might bring.

    I think a few of those masked “heroes” of Allah would now be looking skywards with great trepidation shitting themselves wishing they had not left their home countries.

    They cast their die……………………….Let ’em burn very slowly I hope

  142. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 11:53 am

    John Prescott said

    A lot of stuff that obviously the Americans missed as they also repeatedly missed the Collins class Submarines in their wargames.

    These “noisy and vulnerable to attack” subs consistently performed exceptionally well in those environments.

    We didn’t sell any because these were not made for international sales. Should they have been? Who knows. Probably not, they were (previously) primarily a development sub to build our technologies and expertise in that area. What a total waste of money that will have turned out to be if we abandon it now.

    So, how many subs HAVE the Japanese sold? It’s a simple question. They have been building subs for over 100 years now. The Sōryū-class submarines are just the latest model really.

  143. Walrus permalink
    September 17, 2014 12:15 pm

    “”So, how many subs HAVE the Japanese sold? It’s a simple question””

    None……….because they have in past years had a constitutional ban on the export of any military equipment.

    Do we have such a ban ?

    If not why have we not been able to sell any if they are so fucking great

  144. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 12:50 pm

    why have we not been able to sell any if they are so fucking great

    Could it because they were primarily a development sub to build our technologies and expertise in that area. ?

    Could it be because we never tried to?

    So, none v none, and one with over a hundred years experience.

    I’ll stick with developing our expertise any day.

  145. Walrus permalink
    September 17, 2014 1:01 pm

    “”So, none v none, and one with over a hundred years experience.””

    I think there was, if I recall properly, the rather insignificant matter of a World War or something like that that perhaps prevented Japan from exporting post 1945.

  146. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 1:04 pm

    So, none v none, thanks for the clarification there wally 😉

  147. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 1:10 pm

    This is what our Government is throwing away, just so they can seal a deal with Japan (or, most likely, to kick Aussie workers, because they dare to join a Union)

  148. Walrus permalink
    September 17, 2014 1:12 pm

    “I’ll stick with developing our expertise any day.”

    I’ll choose not to reinvent the wheel and stick with their expertise and save the odd $20B at the same time

    http://www.combinedfleet.com/ss.htm

  149. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 1:18 pm

    save the odd $20B

    You keep using this number, but have not yet been willing to show the figures? Will they be available soon, or will just take the word of the party who invented “eleventy”?

    Does that link mean that you don’t think that we are good enough to compete?

  150. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 1:19 pm

    Cos we’re just not good enough, hey 😦

    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1029170_clarksons-dream-garage–not-a-prancing-horse-in-sight

  151. Meta permalink
    September 17, 2014 1:34 pm

    (That was then, this is now-ish: “The Navy, for its part, is interested in new technology under development by DARPA that can help detect enemy diesel-electric submarines using a series of underwater surveillance. The program would rely on a network of underwater satellites, known as subullites, and use sonar and other forms of detection. The program is known as Distributed Agile Submarine Hunting, or DASH for short. It, too, is early in development, with no fielding timeline set.” Hitch some IFFed UUVs to AI and we could dub it, Subnet.)

  152. Walrus permalink
    September 17, 2014 1:42 pm

    “You keep using this number, but have not yet been willing to show the figures? ”

    OK……….if you insist

    “”……….. it would cost between $50 billion and $80bn to design and build the submarines in Australia. This compares with previous estimates that the submarines were likely to cost between $36bn and $40bn to build.

    It is understood that if the deal goes ahead as many as 12 Japanese submarines could be bought for about $25bn.”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/homebuilt-submarines-deemed-too-expensive-too-risky/story-e6frg8yo-1227052023555

  153. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 2:18 pm

    So, as anticipated, lib mouth piece numbers hey wally.

    This is from the same mob who told us Labors estimate for the NBN was wrong, and that it would be somewhere around $100 billion. Turned out labors estimate was right, and theres wasn’t even in the eleventy region

    And the $25 billion to buy is even by them a guestimate. Already it has been acknowledged this cost doesn’t including kitting them with, you know, basic equipment lol.

    So parroting libs eleventy dollars still. I’ll wait until we see REAL figures (if we ever do)

    Until then, they are just killing off Australian jobs for …. (insert reason here)

  154. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 2:31 pm

    ‘Does that link mean that you don’t think that we are good enough to compete?’

    The manufacture of weaponry is not our strong point and its a buyers market, so it maybe time to get real. I back Walrus in this debate.

  155. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 17, 2014 2:38 pm

    “This is from the same mob who told us Labors estimate for the NBN was wrong,

    Rudd told us in 2007 the NBN would cost $4.7B and be finished in 5 years. Lots of foolish people believed Labor.

    If it was me i would make the subs in Australia even if it costs $40B to do it here compared to $20B from Japan. But can we do it? Problem with manufacturing in this country is that we are not good at it and the Unions create trouble.

  156. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 2:49 pm

    The manufacture of weaponry is not our strong point

    Like the eleventy numbers, I need to see something more than your say so grodo.

    I back Walrus in this debate.

    You know your not helping him with statements like that 😉

    Rudd told us in 2007 the NBN would cost $4.7B and be finished in 5 years.

    You do realise that was a completely different model, don’t you?

    If it was me i would make the subs in Australia even if it costs $40B to do it here compared to $20B from Japan.

    I’d be tempted at that price myself, but, I would argue the numbers are no where near that.

    Problem with manufacturing in this country is that we are not good at it and the Unions create trouble.

    See my above links, we (used to) excel at manufacturing. And, as has been shown countless times, the high cost here has very little to do with unions, and everything to do with mining.

  157. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 17, 2014 2:58 pm

    “You do realise that was a completely different model, don’t you?”

    Exactly.

    Labors 2007 NBN which it took to the election and help them win was a dud. So why should I trust Labor??

    If we build the subs in Australia the money stays in the country. But we need to keep the Unions under control. Look how they milked the desal plant in Victoria. Companies in trouble seem to have strong Unions forcing high wages. eg. $100,000/year for a Qantas baggage handler.

  158. Meta permalink
    September 17, 2014 3:02 pm

    (Some rare praise for, and a big vote of confidence in, Mr Eleventy’s budget acumen, remanufacture of a strong and diverse five-pillar economy, and bubble-thoughts from an unexpected quarter: Australia’s luck starting to run out says Peter Costello .)

  159. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 3:12 pm

    Did the hammock dweller posit an opinion on what may have affected this “luck” he speaks off (of course he didn’t)

    Mind you, I see he is still blaming the states for house prices lol.

  160. Con Carne permalink
    September 17, 2014 3:35 pm

    “He clearly thinks appeasement is some sort of hors d’oeuvre.”

    😆

  161. Walrus permalink
    September 17, 2014 3:37 pm

    “”So parroting libs eleventy dollars still. I’ll wait until we see REAL figures (if we ever do)””

    Since when has the Crazy Left worried about costs or actually paying for anything. Just print more money is your mantra

    At least its not costed on the back of an envelope or sodden beer coaster like the NBN or HIP

  162. September 17, 2014 4:29 pm

    Inconvenient facts, but apart from the greenoids nobody else cares.

    So I hear, but did you know that a gang of four aren’t going to the NY CC get together?

    You’e not interested in facts lady just pretenteding to be a man trolling sites with useless bullshit to derail threads…
    Watch this and learn you bullshitting vacuous scrubber.. 🙄
    Real scientists not bullshitting cntl C cntl V trolls
    http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s4069393.htm

    “This is from the same mob who told us Labors estimate for the NBN was wrong, ”
    Rudd told us in 2007 the NBN would cost $4.7B and be finished in 5 years. Lots of foolish people believed Labor.
    If it was me i would make the subs in Australia even if it costs $40B to do it here compared to $20B from Japan. But can we do it? Problem with manufacturing in this country is that we are not good at it and the Unions create trouble.

    Wrong
    Right
    Yes
    Vindictivly delusuonary and Pathetically wrong

  163. Tony permalink
    September 17, 2014 4:33 pm

    Geez, Ricky, ya forgot to talk about egg’s vagina and stuff.

    Fuckwit!

  164. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2014 5:00 pm

    It certainly doesn’t constitute a logical argument.

    It certainly parodies the argument Wally and you put up …

    What happened to the “why are Lefties so aggressive and bloodthirsty” chants?

    I’ll repeeeeeeat … until I see some Arab boots and rifles on the ground we are just delaying the inevitable … where are all the “conservative” Muslims in this?

    Re Muslim Brotherhood … some of you may recall that I warned, during the riots, to be careful of what you wished for with the MB …

    IS has to be stopped … but not necessarily with Australian troops …

  165. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 6:25 pm

    ‘I need to see something more than your say so grodo.’

    ADI sold out to the French Thales Group, not sure if they have an export market.

    https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/land-forces/weapon-systems-armament

  166. TB Queensland permalink
    September 17, 2014 6:30 pm

    “For an entire week, Aboriginal people will have my full focus and attention as Prime Minister,” Mr Abbott said in a statement.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-responds-to-curly-indigenous-rights-question-by-repeating-himself-in-arnhem-land/story-fncynjr2-1227061853092

  167. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 6:39 pm

    ‘You’e not interested in facts…’

    I went to the transcript and down to CC, naturally I’m speechless.

  168. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 7:10 pm

    ADI sold out to the French Thales Group

    What’s a corporate takeover got to do with the quality of our manufacturing?

    naturally I’m speechless.

    Yet the drivel continues ❓

  169. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 7:20 pm

    One can only imagine the next industry we give away in order to get this one done. Merino Sheep perhaps? 😦

  170. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 7:26 pm

    ‘What’s a corporate takeover got to do with the quality of our manufacturing?’

    Our arms manufacturing industry is good enough, they are interested in dual purpose vehicles for war and peace.

    ‘Yet the drivel continues’

    Reb locked up the back room and I have nothing further to say.

  171. September 17, 2014 7:30 pm

    Geez, Ricky, ya forgot to talk about egg’s vagina and stuff.
    Fuckwit!

    Fuckwit? I’m not the one pretending to have a penis…

    ‘You’e not interested in facts…’
    I went to the transcript and down to CC, naturally I’m speechless.

    Fuckwit? I’m not the one pretending to be a CC scientist…

    TB….

    Abbott is a show pony. This promise he made before the election is one that he dare not break no matter how superficial and insidiously disingenuous his lip service is. The fallout would be too great. I will go further and maintain that it is a fallback tactic designed as nothing more than a stunt to reclaim some purchase o the poll. Its little more than a photo op for a cause that , unlike PJ Keating he could not even bring himself to say “sorry”. Abbot is a colonial monarchist..that’s the stark truth.

  172. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 7:34 pm

    Our arms manufacturing industry is good enough,

    wow, yet earlier, it was The manufacture of weaponry is not our strong point

    What does “weather vane” mean ❓ 😯

    Reb locked up the back room and I have nothing further to say.

    Yet the drivel continues

  173. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 7:39 pm

    Well, that went well, didn’t it.

    How long have the adults been in charge now? What a fckn joke

    Ministers’ desperate dash to stop humiliating danger listing

    http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/ministers-desperate-dash-to-stop-humiliating-danger-listing/story-fnii5v6w-1227060736120

  174. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 17, 2014 7:54 pm

    How the media shafted the people of Scotland:
    http://www.monbiot.com/2014/09/16/remote-control/

    …Perhaps the most arresting fact about the Scottish referendum is this: that there is no newspaper – local, regional or national, English or Scottish – which supports independence except the Sunday Herald. The Scots who will vote yes have been almost without representation in the media…

    …That so many Scots, lambasted from all quarters as fools, frauds and ingrates, have refused to be bullied is itself a political triumph. If they vote for independence, they will do so in defiance not only of the Westminster consensus, but also of its enforcers: the detached, complacent people who claim to speak on their behalf…

  175. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 8:21 pm

    TR we are buying from overseas because its cheaper.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-06/navys-new-supply-ships-will-be-built-overseas-johnston-confirms/5505736

  176. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 8:44 pm

    TR we are buying from overseas because its cheaper.

    Then prove it.

  177. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 8:51 pm

    Breaking Nooze

    Cane Toad Venom Cures Prostate Cancer

    ——-

    ‘Then prove it.’

    Can’t be bothered, but I accept that Abbott’s hate for the unions knows no bounds and I reckon he would pay double for Korean ships just to break the backs of Labor’s political wing.

  178. Tom R permalink
    September 17, 2014 9:01 pm

    Can’t be bothered

    ROFL

    yea wally, he’s on your side lol

  179. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 17, 2014 9:16 pm

    Not only are overseas manufactured stuff cheaper, it is better quality.

  180. egg permalink
    September 17, 2014 9:24 pm

    ‘yea wally, he’s on your side lol’

    Walrus gave a ball park figure of $25 billion for the Jap subs, which is half the price of Australian built. The supply ships tenders have not been settled, so I don’t have a figure as yet, but here is the latest and its out of our financial capacity.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/committee-says-reopen-ship-tender/story-fn3dxiwe-1227039157099

  181. September 17, 2014 9:40 pm

    the pantie dryness level has been raised from `moist` to `damp` #yay asio

  182. September 17, 2014 9:47 pm

    What is this Trollapalooza?

    Labors 2007 NBN which it took to the election and help them win was a dud. So why should I trust Labor??

    Not only are overseas manufactured stuff cheaper, it is better quality.

    Wrong and wrong…1 from six not bad , usually you dont get above zip

    Reb locked up the back room and I have nothing further to say..

    Oh how we wish that was the truth but your a insidious little vagina

    Cane Toad Venom Cures Prostate Cancer..

    Good shove a gallon up your ass

  183. September 17, 2014 10:06 pm

    ””Reb locked up the back room and I have nothing further to say””’

    as l told`ya several times in your dungeon, ya`junk-science aint pulling its weight, this ebola outbreak has already killed a few thousand poor bastards, the junk-science teabags are not going to wipe-out mankind before one of these sars/h1n1/ebola/superbugs will

  184. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 6:22 am

    ‘ya`junk-science aint pulling its weight’

    Its only junk to you short arse because of your ignorance, the hiatus is coming to an end and global cooling will be the new norm in a couple of years.

    You heard it here first.

  185. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 6:56 am

    All young Muslim men are guilty, until proven innocent.

    ‘Church-goers were left shaken after Islamic State supporters shouted death threats and waved the group’s sinister flag in Sydney on Wednesday.

    ‘A car drove past Our Lady of Lebanon Church at Harris Park, western Sydney on Wednesday night. Witnesses claim the flag was similar to those wielded by Islamic State jihadists hanging out the window.

    ‘A priest from the church told AAP the men in the car threatened to ‘kill the Christians’ and ‘slaughter their children’.

    ‘They were strong words and people were scared of what they saw,’ he said.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2759536/Islamic-State-supporters-threaten-slaughter-children-Christian-church-goers.html#ixzz3DbmtBfek
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  186. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 7:24 am

    ‘Oh how we wish that was the truth but your a insidious little vagina’

    Fkn cnt

    ——

    “India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border.”

    Hu Shih, an ambassador of the Republic of China to the USA.

  187. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 7:41 am

    Walrus gave a ball park figure of $25 billion

    No wally repeated a lib party eleventy figure, which, as we know from their NBN rubbery numbers, means jack.

    There ARE no numbers as yet from Japan (we don’t even know for sure what is in the “free trade” agreement, let alone figures like that), so any number you come up with is just a wild guess, nothing more. In the case of the “$25 billion”, you can be guaranteed that is not even a guess, simply a figure plucked that suits their argument. With no “context” whatsoever.

    This line from the article you linked to sums it all up.

    Only Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering from South Korea and Navantia of Spain could bid, with Australian firms excluded.

    That seems to be the libs default position, oh, except when it comes to sending our soldiers off to war that is.

  188. September 18, 2014 7:53 am

    ””Reb locked up the back room””’

    Now, that’s really true is it.

    We’ll add that to the list of other false BS statements you make here….. These days I usually just scroll on past your comments, but your blatant lies deserve to be called out for what they are.

    Why do you even bother…?

  189. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 7:55 am

    To build ships that big they would need to revamp the building facilities, all in all its a no brainer.

  190. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 7:58 am

    Why do you even bother…?

    I see it as a form of community service

     he makes it easier to argue the case against him. See how much he has helped wally lol
     he makes it easier to be right. Just go with the opposite of what he says 😉

  191. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 8:02 am

    ‘Now, that’s not really true is it.’

    Yes, for a few days I couldn’t comment.

  192. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 8:03 am

    all in all its a no brainer.

    Especially for a self professed “Infrastructure PM” ❓ 😯

  193. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 8:05 am

    for a few days I couldn’t comment.

    Yet I’d bet the drivel continued regardless

  194. September 18, 2014 8:05 am

    “for a few days I couldn’t comment.”

    That’s not quite the same as “locking up the back room” now is it?

    *Fun fact: why do u think you couldn’t comment for a few days?

  195. September 18, 2014 8:09 am
  196. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 8:18 am

    No, this is hockeys idea of beauty 😉

  197. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 8:32 am

    ‘*Fun fact: why do u think you couldn’t comment for a few days?’

    Because I said the words ‘observational reality’ and ‘tipping point’ on a non weather related issue.

  198. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 8:41 am

    Oh dear. Abbott has sunk to a new low, conducting anti-terrorist raids just to distract us from the budget. How dare he target innocent supporters of Islamic State, destroying harmony in our community, all for the sake of scoring cheap political points. Surely Christine Milne is the only sane political leader – let the terrorists run free.

  199. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 8:46 am

    You are quite amusing TomR.

    What’s the Australian Sub figure including provision for a cost blowout ?

    The Japanese ships are already being built. Hence whatever the figure per ship is its likely to be capped. There would be no such safety net for the long suffering taxpayer.

    The SA shipyards had their chance and they blew it last time.

    The definition of idiot is someone who keeps doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

    What village are you from again ?

  200. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 8:56 am

    “”Oh dear. Abbott has sunk to a new low, conducting anti-terrorist raids just to distract us from the budget.””

    But………but………….but……………..according to the Lefties its none of our problem.

    They are just misunderstood radical muslims who as punishment should firstly have their facebook access restricted plus Twitter access should also be curtailed.

    They should also be told they are very………very naughty.

    And don’t forget to give them a big hug each day.

    That’ll make things better for them.

    Afterall…………..the Middle East has nothing to do with us

  201. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:05 am

    The definition of idiot is someone who keeps doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

    That’s no way to speak of egg.

    Or yourself.

    Hence whatever the figure per ship is its likely to be capped.

    What is that figure? Where is the contract that says what it is capped at?

    Aren’t WE currently experiencing cost blowouts with the strike fighters? Isn’t our gubamint happy with that (when it is American blowouts), but UNACCEPTBLE when it is Australian ones?

    What I’m asking for is a considered examination of ALL the factors, not going on a rubbery figure and promise from a lot of proven liars.

    I guess that is too much to ask for

  202. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:06 am

    But………but………….but……………..according to the Lefties its none of our problem.

    But………but………….but……………..this has been going on for over a decade. During Labors time , it was largely kept off the front pages (that was generally full of Labor BAD stuff.

    Now, it is front and center. Meanwhile, hows that budget going?

  203. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:14 am

    The FTAs with Japan and Korea means we can buy state of the art equipment from our allies at a reasonable price and squeeze the yanks out.

  204. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:18 am

    at a reasonable price That is yet to be seen

    and squeeze the yanks out. Well, they pushed us out, without any real explanation, except Unions = BOO!

  205. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:20 am

    Yes, Abbott is just so manipulative!

    * Has the Iraq government request international assistance
    * Gets Obama to announce war plans
    * Manipulates the retiring ASIO boss to raise the threat assessment
    * Manoeuvres Shorten to support him
    * Gets the AFP, NSW and Qld police commissioners deploy near 1000 police to raids

    …all a distraction to his budget/political woes!

  206. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:21 am

    Reb locked up the back room

    Looks like not for the first time hey goog

    egg permalink

    February 23, 2014 4:40 pm

    Good afternoon.

    A short banning has brought me to my senses, thank yews all.

    https://theguttertrash.com/co2-and-you-iv/#comment-46610

    senses ROFL

  207. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:28 am

    Gets Obama to announce war plans

    Yes, over here, we keep getting the “war” meme Thank Rod Obama is there to dampen down little tabots enthusiasm

    “This is not and will not be America’s fight alone. One of the things we’ve learned over this last decade is America can make a decisive difference. But I want to be clear: the American forces that have been deployed to Iraq do not and will not have a combat mission,” Mr. Obama said
    ……..
    After a decade of massive ground deployments it is more effective to use our unique capabilities in support of partners on the ground so they can secure their own countries’ futures. And that is the only solution that will succeed over the long term,” the president added.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-says-it-again-no-ground-troops-in-iraq/

    I somehow feel much more comfortable with that then with “baddies v baddies” in a “witches brew”

  208. September 18, 2014 9:28 am

    “A short banning has brought me to my senses, thank yews all.”

    LULZ….. 🙂

  209. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:30 am

    …all a distraction to his budget/political woes!

    It’s called luck, in his eyes anyway, and it is obvious both since he was elected, and the manner in how he conducts himself now, that he will play it for all it is worth.

  210. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:35 am

    “”Aren’t WE currently experiencing cost blowouts with the strike fighters? “”

    I thought you’d try and bring that up.

    That is a development and manufacture program just like an SA Sub program would be

    Big difference

  211. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:54 am

    That is a development and manufacture program just like an SA Sub program would be

    Big difference

    Just like … big difference ❓

  212. September 18, 2014 9:56 am

    I hope the substance matches the propaganda. There are scum in every radical ignorant religious ideology…

    Its hard not to be cynical about anything that involves Abbott based entirley on his past and present form.

    Prediction……… very long protracted court cases with an attached media fest of whipped up hatred. Trial by Terrograph.

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/terrorism-raids-carried-out-across-sydney-brisbane-20140918-10igft.html

  213. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 9:57 am

    Apparently Islamic State had a real treat planned for us:

    “NSW Police Commissioner Andrew Scipone said: “Today’s operation reflects the reality of the treat that we face”.”

  214. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 10:01 am

    “”Prediction……… very long protracted court cases with an attached media fest of whipped up hatred””

    So I guess you are now suggesting Abbott will be in the ear of the Justice System to milk this for everything it can offer ?

    “”Sigh””………………………””Shakes Head””……………………..””Eye Roll””

  215. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 10:01 am

    “There are scum in every radical ignorant religious ideology… “

    Obviously the police are racist. They only arrest the scum from one religion. We need a Royal Commission to work out why! End this blatant discrimination against the Religion of Peace™ now!

  216. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 10:03 am

  217. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 10:04 am

    “Just like … big difference “”

    Yeah well I didn’t think you’d quite get the difference between being a partner in the development and manufacture as opposed to just the manufacture.

    Clearly that one extra long word was too much to ask

  218. Tom R permalink
    September 18, 2014 10:15 am

    Yeah well I didn’t think you’d quite get the difference between being a partner in the development and manufacture as opposed to just the manufacture.

    Are you saying that the subs is just a manufacturer then?

  219. Meta permalink
    September 18, 2014 10:57 am

    (C’rect. The potential Japanese vendors have already indicated that a transfer of underlying technologies, even just to allow domestic building and maintenance, could prove more costly than a purely domestic build, so best build them over there and not ask too many questions, if cost is king. Also a perfect way to ensure that all the opportunity of relinquishing expertise in the domain of intended outsourcing is fulfilled: government can become streamlined as not even an informed purchaser. We could add that an obsession with ‘cheaper is better’ becomes over time ‘expensive crap is the best you can hope for, because beggars can’t be choosers, and because you gave away the underlying capacity to control cost and quality, and because you wouldn’t know either way now that you’re reliant’. Which is perfect for unimportant activities like ‘defence’, I guess.)

  220. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 11:07 am

    Again on the anti-terrorism raids this morning……

    “”Mr Scipione said police acted on Thursday because they believed it was “the most appropriate time” given the intelligence that officers had.””

    “the most appropriate time” …………Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    He’s obviously referring to Abbott’s difficulty getting the Budget fully passed in the Senate

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/live-antiterrorism-raids-across-sydney-and-brisbane-20140918-3fzkq.html#ixzz3Dco23m10

  221. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 11:11 am

    Meta………you could say that about absolutely anything complex that we import.

    To my knowledge and because of costs we don’t manufacture a single computer in this country. And I’d imagine we are very reliant upon them for Defence.

    So you could use the same argument as the one you have outlined above about almost anything.

  222. Meta permalink
    September 18, 2014 11:15 am

    (Didn’t PC Skippy and AG Brandis have a thing going about Thomson a while back? Good to see they’ve found something else to keep themselves busy.)

  223. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 11:16 am

    ‘Which is perfect for unimportant activities like ‘defence’, I guess.’

    Its unimportant in that we have no foreseeable enemy, except small terrorist cells, swarthy looking guys with beards.

  224. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 11:55 am

    “Govt losing debate on unfair budget so it just talks about terrorism.”

    -Backbencher Melissa Parke tweeted a few days ago

    In the light of this mornings events she and all you Lefties look rather f**king stupid

  225. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 18, 2014 12:30 pm

    …but your blatant lies deserve to be called out for what they are…

    that would be everything said.

    Anybody been watching the SBS series “living with the enemy”?

    PARLIAMENT SHOULD HAVE A VOICE AND VOTE ON GOING TO WAR:
    http://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australian_outlook/parliament-should-have-a-voice-and-vote-on-going-to-war/

    …As rigorous debate ensues on the decision to deploy Australian troops to Iraq in response to the threat from the Islamic State, Professor Ramesh Thakur stresses the importance of Parliamentary oversight as a necessary tenet of democracy in the decision to go to war…

    …In 2003 George W. Bush, Tony Blair and John Howard pitted their judgment against the wisdom of the people. Going by their writings and speeches since, all three are like Philip II of Spain: “No experience of the failure of his policy could shake his belief in its essential excellence,” historian Barbara Tuchman informs us…

    …To deny MPs their day in the house betrays contempt for the people’s representative and thus for the people…

  226. September 18, 2014 12:35 pm

    So I guess you are now suggesting Abbott will be in the ear of the Justice System to milk this for everything it can offer ?

    Bad Guess more projection… Based on past form nothing ..and I mean absolutely nothing is beyond this government of All Surprise based on nothing but their actions.

    Obviously the police are racist. They only arrest the scum from one religion. We need a Royal Commission to work out why! End this blatant discrimination against the Religion of Peace™ now!

    I don’t even know what that means or what you are implying.. maybe you should write a letter to Andrews or Abetz apparently their imaginary friend has adorned them with richeous morality beyond reproach to administer gods Tony’s will

    “Govt losing debate on unfair budget so it just talks about terrorism.”
    -Backbencher Melissa Parke tweeted a few days ago
    In the light of this mornings events she and all you Lefties look rather f**king stupid

    Who are you Wally Judge Dred? I’m no Leftie and I don’t trust Abbott one Iota… If you do, I would suggest that you are rather fucking stupid

    He’s obviously referring to Abbott’s difficulty getting the Budget fully passed in the Senate

    Penny drops… I mean its not beyond the scope of reality that Abbott would use anything for political opportunity right? His Election was based on cynicism and it will be defined as such. he is the “grain of salt” PM.

  227. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 18, 2014 12:40 pm

    but we’re the good guys, we’re better than them.

  228. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 18, 2014 12:51 pm

    Budget emergency’ denied by 63 leading Australian economists
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/18/budget-emergency-denied-by-63-leading-australian-economists?CMP=twt_gu

  229. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 12:55 pm

    ‘I mean its not beyond the scope of reality that Abbott would use anything for political opportunity right?’

    That’s right, this mess just fell into his lap.

  230. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 12:55 pm

    “” I mean its not beyond the scope of reality that Abbott would use anything for political opportunity right?””

    Ricky,………….. I suggest you go and take the Ice Bucket challenge to bring you back to your senses.

    For you to suggest that Scipione and is in on some grand fucking conspiracy to divert attention from some perceived Budget problem then you have really lost the plot

  231. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 18, 2014 12:56 pm

  232. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 12:56 pm

    “I don’t even know what that means or what you are implying.”

    I’m objecting to the bullshit argument that Islam is just like other religions – “There are scum in every radical ignorant religious ideology…” you said.

    The difference is that 90% of terror attacks since 9/11, over 20,000, have been perpetrated in the name of that religion. In those circumstances it is complete and utter bullshit to compare Islam to other religions. More to the point, there is a reason that people convicted of terrorism offenses in Australia they are inevitably followers of the Religion of Peace™. Mentioning other religions in this context is completely fatuous.

  233. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 18, 2014 1:00 pm

    Obviously the police are racist. They only arrest the scum from one religion. We need a Royal Commission to work out why! End this blatant discrimination against the Religion of Peace™ now!

    End all religions now!

  234. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 1:07 pm

    “”End all religions now!””

    You got my vote………………….no more talk about Man Made Climate Change

  235. September 18, 2014 1:46 pm

    Ricky,………….. I suggest you go and take the Ice Bucket challenge to bring you back to your senses.

    Put your Telegraph down and stop projecting

    For you to suggest that Scipione and is in on some grand fucking conspiracy to divert attention from some perceived Budget problem then you have really lost the plot

    You have a comprehension problem augmented by mind projection..can you bend spoons?

    In those circumstances it is complete and utter bullshit to compare Islam to other religions

    Yeah I get that all the time.. its heralded from the pinnacles of mountains of virtue by those pillars or truth “politicians” in speeches that contain the word democracy, god, freedom and justice.. who are the baddies again?

    “”End all religions now!””

    religious persecution is an oxymoron

    https://twitter.com/alright_shutup/status/512409657726341120

    Just like Egg

  236. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 2:12 pm

    “Yeah I get that all the time.. its heralded from the pinnacles of mountains of virtue by those pillars or truth “politicians” in speeches that contain the word democracy, god, freedom and justice..”

    Yes, but do you have a logical argument? Or are you just going to rely on specious moral equivalence? Clue: in a very material head-lopping terrorist kind of way one of these religious belief systems is not like the others.

  237. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 18, 2014 2:12 pm

    So, there go the police again- off half cocked.

    They’re saying that there was a (so called) plot to take a citizen and behead them in the CBD on film, draped it the IS flag. I say-

    * We now know that those so called plots are nothing more than some mates just shooting the breeze.
    * It’s the way a group of inoffensive guys ‘bond’
    * More people have died in this country from drinking bad catholic alter wine than beheading by terrorists. Where’s the outrage about that?
    * We have to learn to be nicer and more tolerant of religious nutcases that are mass murdering rapists.
    * Which CBD anyway? It makes a difference. If it wasn’t Melbourne, I really don’t see what it’s got to do with me.
    * Did we arrest that guy in Mexico that murdered someone last week?
    * It’s about time Abbott owned up that this is just a political stunt
    * Thank you

  238. egg permalink
    September 18, 2014 2:30 pm

    Bolt is correct in saying the Q&A panelists were carefully chosen to reflect the views of the ABC and are not intellectuals.

  239. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 2:35 pm

    But………but………….but……………..according to the Lefties its none of our problem.

    They are just misunderstood radical muslims who as punishment should firstly have their facebook access restricted plus Twitter access should also be curtailed.

    I actually predicted this nonsense this morning from you Wally … while collecting my new glasses … the other ones were beyond cleaning after almost a decade of your BS sticking to them …

    You may have noticed that then raids this morning were carried out by POLICE OFFICERS protecting our AUSTRALIAN community … I have never had any issue with that … and to my knowledge no-one on this blog has …

    What I, and I think others here, are concerned about is sending Australian TROOPS to the MIDDLE EAST to fight – on the ground – in a CIVIL WAR … that the ARAB NATIONS have to fight …

    That’s as simple as I can make it …

  240. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 2:44 pm

    …all a distraction to his budget/political woes!

    All of the above focussed on sabre rattling … but then we all know Abbott is a one eyed dick … simply focussed on those tanks, an’ planes, an’ guns an’ stuff … yeah, BOOM!

    Multi-skilled nope, multi-talented nope, multi-moronic dope … yep …

  241. September 18, 2014 2:48 pm

    Bolt is correct in saying the Q&A panelists were carefully chosen to reflect the views of the ABC and are not intellectuals.

    Really? None of those panelists are intellectuals and Bolt is?

    And who provides fucktards like you and Bolt with the selective data that you so love to cut an paste fuckwit…

    Oh that would be scientists…

    Gee Hack and derailing troll..congratulations miss you must be so proud. 🙄

    Yes, but do you have a logical argument? Or are you just going to rely on specious moral equivalence? Clue: in a very material head-lopping terrorist kind of way one of these religious belief systems is not like the others.

    Splatter I am not taking sides… I hold all regions with equal disdain as I do propagandists. As I have stated again and again I’m a centrist and an atheist. What I am asserting is I pretty much don’t believe any of it, well not enough to make an informed judgement much less a moral one. The Wiki leaks war diaries and Snowdens leaks tell us to take this shit with a grain of salt.
    If you are looking for a debate on who’s imaginary friend is less the baddie as reported by our outstandingly truthful media..I will pass thanks.

    As I said before I don’t approve of any of this shit. The freedom fighters and upholding subverts of democracy do much sabre and cage rattling on all sides of the pentagram…
    Who are the baddies again? The head choppers or the carpet bombers?

    Clue: video was a fake.. I’m an editor for a crust

  242. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 2:50 pm

    To my knowledge and because of costs we don’t manufacture a single computer in this country.

    Ignorant comment … I build my own computers … I just don’t have a plant to build a lot of ’em … most are built in SE Asia … but its easier to build a computer than do your tax return … but DHs still pay you to do theirs …

  243. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 2:52 pm

    Now software development is something else … however, if need be I have a programmer in my family who is self employed … what would you like developed?

  244. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:02 pm

    In the light of this mornings events she and all you Lefties look rather f**king stupid

    You really are thick … most people (obviously not you) knew that the AFP and ASIO had surveillance programs on the go … for years …

    The discussions here have had nothing to do with local anti-terrorist actions by the police … no-one has objected to that … in fact I actually said a few days ago we need to concentrate on our own borders … let the Arab states sort out their own shite there. With our air support … but be prepared for the consequences if a pilot and/or navigator are captured.

    Like Abbott you are simply milking a situation to your own ends … the ASIO upgrade was a massive clue, BTW!

  245. September 18, 2014 3:02 pm

    To my knowledge and because of costs we don’t manufacture a single computer in this country.

    ROTFL Yep to you’re knowledge alright 🙄

    I wanna know where’s Hokey Wally?

  246. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:04 pm

    We need a Royal Commission to work out why! End this blatant discrimination against the Religion of Peace™ now!

    I thought the RC into Child Abuse was continuing?

  247. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:05 pm

    “but its easier to build assemble a computer than do your tax return” using foreign parts: motherboard, CPU, RAM, HDD, video card, optical drive.

  248. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:12 pm

    Mentioning other religions in this context is completely fatuous.

    In your opinion … you are blaming ALL Islamists for the actions of the radicals in IS and other radical Islamist organisations …

    My observations are that there are radicals in all organised religions … but then I’m not shackled by any religious belief … I’m on the outside looking in …

    Milking a situation can be done in many ways …

    So be it …

  249. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:13 pm

    Barrie Cassidy:

    Scott Morrison’s day has come. It’s now time for the Immigration Minister to step up and take responsibility for the fight against terrorism.

    Nobody is better qualified. Nobody would bring the same sense of reassurance, confidence and security that the country now needs.

  250. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:18 pm

    Clue: in a very material head-lopping terrorist kind of way one of these religious belief systems is not like the others.

    So, its the head-lopping that gets to you? That fires up that crusader blood? Or is it an opposing religious ferocity that has been smoulderin’ since the first crusades …

    The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Latin Roman Catholic Church during the High Middle Ages and Late Middle Ages. In 1095 Pope Urban II proclaimed the First Crusade with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to holy places in and near Jerusalem.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    “but its easier to build assemble a computer than do your tax return” using foreign parts: motherboard, CPU, RAM, HDD, video card, optical drive.

    Like ALL PC manufacturers … duh!

  251. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:20 pm

    I’ve got some bad news for Barrie … wait a minute! Isn’t Barrie employed by the ABC … shouldn’t he be sacked!

  252. September 18, 2014 3:22 pm

    “Bolt is correct in saying the Q&A panelists were carefully chosen to reflect the views of the ABC and are not intellectuals.”

    Oh FFS…

    I think you need another well earned rest in rehab…

    See you in a couple of days (or whenever I can be bothered unlocking your padded room)…

  253. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:31 pm

    (seriously on this occasion)

    Personally, I honestly don’t think religion is the cause of the violence – it’s just an excuse.

    As I’ve boasted outlined previously, I’ve had a few adventure trips through the middle east (a while ago). My main observation is that there is a widespread tolerance of anger as a rational reaction to a problem. Lots of people have their temperament set at ‘simmer’ and quite quickly increase it to boiling. If anger is mainstream, violence will be more common.

    There is plenty of superstition too. It’s about like Salem burning witches 400 years ago.

    That’s cultural, not religious. I haven’t observed the same type of resentful anger among Muslims in Indonesia or Malaysia.

  254. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:40 pm

    “you are blaming ALL Islamists for the actions of the radicals in IS and other radical Islamist organisations”

    Not at all. I did liken IS to other salafist jihadi groups:

    “If Islamic State ceases to exist there are plenty of other salafist jihad groups who will continue striving to the same end – like al Shabaab, Boko Haram, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Moro Islamic Liberation Front, Jemaah Islamiyah, the Taliban, al Qaeda and its branches in the Islamic Mahgreb and the Indian Subcontinent, Moro Islamic Liberation Front, Abu Sayyaf and many others. This 1,500 year old hydra has many heads and even if we lop a few off, the battle will continue for generations.”

    Islamists are a broader category but ultimately they all aim to impose sharia law and as such they are antithetical to basic human rights. But they are not all of a piece with Islamic State.

    “My observations are that there are radicals in all organised religions …”

    My point is that that is an irrelevant statement. The relevant category for the purposes of this thread is the Australian terror alerts. That leaves out most Muslims and all other religions. However, the only Australians charged with terrorism offences are Muslims. Talking about radicals of other religions is merely prattling politically correct motherhood BS.

  255. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 3:55 pm

    “”Ignorant comment … I build my own computers …””

    Yeah and I bet you’d excel at putting together the motherfuckerboard

    Oh………fantastic………………………….I bet the lads flying our F18 Super Hornets over Northern Iraq would love to have one of your home made computers managing all their inflight systems and fire controls whilst flying over hoards of black clad nutcases brandishing in one hand rather sharp swords whilst in the other a pike with a human head sitting atop

    If it’s not enough that you constantly refer to your friggin khaki uniform now we have to put up with the vision of you in your friggin’ safari suit partially draped in a white lab coat putting together a motherfuckerboard.

    Fuck you are so full of yourself !

  256. September 18, 2014 4:05 pm

    Oh FFS…
    I think you need another well earned rest in rehab…
    See you in a couple of days (or whenever I can be bothered unlocking your padded room)…

    Thanks..She’s a fucking asshole…

    Not at all. I did liken IS to other salafist jihadi groups

    I absolutely get you are not but whats the difference between the propaganda of these radicals and that of catch the fire or neo nazi’s ect?

    I mean if these people who were arrested were planning to behead someone then nothing less than full force should be used just like any other criminal.

  257. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 5:19 pm

    “So, its the head-lopping that gets to you? That fires up that crusader blood? Or is it an opposing religious ferocity that has been smoulderin’ since the first crusades …”

    TB, your snarky stupidity is your most endearing characteristic.

    Obviously the history of the middle ages is not your strong point. The clash between Cristianity and Islam did not begin with the crusades. They were a response to centuries of Muslim invasion, and, more proximately, the expulsion of christians from Jerusalem, the burning of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and hundreds of other churches, attacks on pilgrims and to calls from Contantinople for help.

    RP: “I absolutely get you are not but whats the difference between the propaganda of these radicals and that of catch the fire or neo nazi’s ect? “

    I am not that fussed about propaganda as such (unless it amounts to direct encouragement of, or a conspiracy to commit, violence.) People should be free to say what they want. The real problem is the violence itself. I presume we agree on this.

    ToM: “Personally, I honestly don’t think religion is the cause of the violence – it’s just an excuse.”

    The dangerous thing about religion, and secular ideologies, is that if they are deeply enough held, they can operate to give the believer permission to do stuff that normal people would recoil from. All humans, present company included, are capable of the most heinous acts. But most of us don’t commit them unless in the grip of an ideology be it religious or secular, like communism or nazism. As Voltaire said: ‘Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.’

  258. Walrus permalink
    September 18, 2014 5:25 pm

    When I read this in the SMH I thought “why does that name ring a bell”

    “……………Rebecca Kay, an Islamic community activist who recently helped organise a statement from Muslim leaders condemning the federal government’s counter-terrorism laws, spoke to reporter Saffron Howden.

    She said she often received death threats, but these did not warrant a massive police operation such as that seen on Thursday.”
    “It’s nothing but a publicity stunt.”

    “I get death threats from red necks 24 hours a day.”

    “The heavy-handed tactics have been actually disgusting.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/live-antiterrorism-raids-across-sydney-and-brisbane-20140918-3fzkq.html#ixzz3DeJxBCfV

    Then I found this, her name is actually Rebecca Kay Darwiche ………..such a charming family…………………………

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwiche%E2%80%93Razzak%E2%80%93Fahda_family_conflict

  259. September 18, 2014 5:43 pm

    Good to see News Limited ramping up the hysteria to a hundred and eleventy…!

    IT COULD’VE BEEN ANY ONE OF US!!!!

    http://www.news.com.au

  260. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 18, 2014 6:16 pm

    Or as the ABC put it:

    “Random members of the public were to be snatched off the street and beheaded on camera in the alleged plan.”

    Interesting piece here on the Australian jihadist scene.

  261. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 6:42 pm

    Personally, I honestly don’t think religion is the cause of the violence – it’s just an excuse.

    I agree … religion is the “excuse” … however, I put up a link a few days ago showing that Saudi Arabia has beheaded more people, in the same period, as IS (and NO I’m not defending IS … FFS!)

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    you in your friggin’ safari suit partially draped in a white lab coat putting together a motherfuckerboard

    That’s your visions … pair of shorts, shirt and sandals and access to the internet for parts LIKE EVERY PC manufacturer in the world … China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam (yes Vietnam) …

    PC’s are the simplest fkn thing to build … as for this shrill crap I bet the lads flying our F18 Super Hornets … did I say anything about building computers for the military?

    The comment was … “we don’t make PCs here” … maybe it should have been we don’t make computer parts here … we don’t ’cause so many other nations do … bit like Japan not being a major mining country …

    And the heart of the computer isn’t the CPU … its the software (particularly for military equipment)

    Fuck you are so full of yourself !

    And your not! Its not a bloody pissin’ comp … I build my own computers … my children and grandchildren do …

    Could you build a computer BTW … full of myself? Nah, but I don’t BS … if I can do it I can … if I’ve done it I have, even the rockshifter would tell you that …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    TB, your snarky stupidity is your most endearing characteristic.

    Well the pot has to fire up the kettle sometimes … 😉

    the expulsion of christians from Jerusalem, the burning of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and hundreds of other churches, attacks on pilgrims and to calls from Contantinople for help.

    Was that before or after the Christian invasion of Jerusalem that was occupied by Jews … who turfed out the Arabs?

    My understanding of the middle ages is that the crusades were one of the worst examples of slaughter, genocide, rape, pillage and cruelty the world has ever seen … all carried out on behalf of the Roman Catholic church in the name of their “god” …

    Then there is this …

    … Wonderful sights were to be seen. Some of our men (and this was more merciful) cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one’s way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the Temple of Solomon, a place where religious services are normally chanted … in the temple and the porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed it was a just and splendid judgement of God that this place should be filled with the blood of unbelievers since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies

    Raymond D’Aguilers in Historia Francorum qui ceperunt Iherusalem

    No wonder Wally gets so shrill at me too … must be hard when stupid people aren’t enthralled with the religious rewriting of history …

    But most of us don’t commit them unless in the grip of an ideology be it religious or secular, like communism or Nazism

    To be pedantic … Nazis were religious and in fact it drove many in the SS.

    All humans, present company included, are capable of the most heinous acts.

    On a personal note, I’m not convinced about that statement either … something affecting one of my family may tip me …

    … but certainly not “ideology”, I’m not a joiner or a “believer” just stupidly snarky … apparently …

    I’d call myself more sarcastic than snarky … and a big believer (hehe) in devil’s advocacy …

    Just sayin’

  262. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 6:46 pm

    Re computers above … China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam (yes Vietnam) … make the components … generally built in China and the Philippines …

  263. TB Queensland permalink
    September 18, 2014 6:49 pm

    Then I found this, her name is actually Rebecca Kay Darwiche ………..such a charming family…………………………

    Yep, I had a look … family feud … pretty awful …

    But what about the “rednecks” … noice folk are they?

  264. September 18, 2014 6:56 pm

    Religion is the germ here.

    ‘My God’s dick has the most girth’.

    All gods, of course, being equally ludicrous propositions.

    The followers of some just have a little more blind conviction in certain parts of their violent dogma than others.

    Make no mistake, the bible, like the Quran, is a man authored fairy story with plenty of sick shit in it.
    Difference being, a vast majority of Christians are back in their box & seem to sense how self defeating following scripture literally is. Their competitors in fable adherence, the brown people from yonder, are a little more staunch in their convictions; at the radical fringe, at least.

    * congratulations on having visited the ME, YomM, and no doubt the geopolitical situation there is onerous. But, the nutters are inspired by religion & foreign interference in their sphere of influence.

  265. September 18, 2014 8:48 pm

    Priceless I agree Walrus… most of these Muslim baby Jihasists are drug dealers with little or no connection to their mosque…

    I would have thought moderate Muslims would have seen this as a gift in weeding out the radical troublemakers. If the local coppers and the feds are watching you and grab a warrant..its not usually racially motivated…its because you are doing really bad shit. I will say one thing for Commissioner Andrew Scipione, he is by far the best cop we have had in the last 30 years… Plus the cops are gonna go hard these guys have weaponry and deal drugs. These gangs always play the race card even when they shot up Lakemba Cop shop.

  266. Meta permalink
    September 19, 2014 4:07 am

    (But, but, but, after years of preparation and training, and months of watching, and days of considering and briefing, and no time planning a morning of smooth-targeting, Mr Scipione says, “All of those plans that may have been afoot are thwarted”.)

  267. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 19, 2014 9:32 am

    “Was that before or after the Christian invasion of Jerusalem that was occupied by Jews … who turfed out the Arabs? “

    Briefly (and I have probably missed some) Jerusalem was ruled by Jews, Neo-Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs (ruling from Damsacus and later Bahdad), Seljuk Turks, Crusaders, Egyptians, Ottoman Turks, the British and now Jews.

    Jerusalem became Christian when Constantine’s mum went there in the early 300s, found the true cross and built the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. The Arabs took over in about 640 and built the Dome of the Rock in the 690s. They were relatively tolerant of Christian pilgrims who were good for business. The Turks were more puritanical and violent and also took most of Turkey from the Byzantines. Which is why the Byzantine Emporer asked for help from Europe.

    Jerusalem was a bloodbath because it didn’t surrender. The rule in those days was that if a city didn’t surrender the men were killed and the women and children sold into slavery. Jerusalem was no exception. There were plenty of similar episodes. Will Durant who wrote a brilliant 11 volume history of the world thinks that, historically, the worst violence was in the Muslim invasion of India.

  268. Tom R permalink
    September 19, 2014 9:38 am

    Personally, I honestly don’t think religion is the cause of the violence – it’s just an excuse.

    I AGREE!

    Mind you, religion is the tool used to heighten the fevered mind. It is (and has been for thousands of years) a way of vindicating (to some minds) actions otherwise intolerable.

    It is good that the police have acted on the information they have. I note the media had much the same information? Here in little old Adelaide, we had to settle for watching our special forces going through the motions. It is concerning how orchestrated the whole media and police actions are though. And the fact that, from the reports, the tip off came 4 months ago? I’m not saying that the timing, coming as it does with our non-war efforts in Iraq ramp up, looks all too stage managed or anything.

    I was just reflecting last night, however, as watched the terror quotant reach elventy infinitleed, how that for most of howards term, “the terror” was front and center, ramped up to “eleventy” for the assembled mainstream, then we had a brief hiatus (with the police still arresting and charging people along the way), and now, all of a sudden, “the terror” is back with a vengeance.

    Purely coincidental, I’m sure?

    I mean, yes, there is definitley a heightened action around extremists. I just hope we don’t lose sight of the role that we (not collectively) took in it’s creation.

    Obama’s speech the other day re-inforcing “no boots on the ground” is encouraging. However, I fear it is very premature.

  269. TB Queensland permalink
    September 19, 2014 9:59 am

    I’m trying to figure out if Tony Abbott is now a senior political reporter or still the PM …

  270. Tom R permalink
    September 19, 2014 10:17 am

    a senior political reporter or still the PM …

    If you are able to define the differentiation there for us plebs please TB 😉

  271. Tom R permalink
    September 19, 2014 10:18 am

    Mind you, it is is interesting how theirabc has gone from “the opposition says” to “the government says”. And it was such a seamless transition.

  272. TB Queensland permalink
    September 19, 2014 11:39 am

    Chuckle … so much to see … so little seen … 😉

  273. September 21, 2014 12:39 am

    (For Certain; off-shore submarine purchasing will reduce `accounting` costs as 100% of submarine budget will go off-shore. No need to calculate profit-tax, income-tax or any other `claw-back` on-shore production would generate.)

  274. September 23, 2014 6:37 am

    Theatre

  275. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 30, 2014 8:31 am

    More Islamophobia.

  276. September 30, 2014 8:40 am

    “Telling tales of terror…”

    http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4096977.htm

  277. September 30, 2014 1:02 pm

    Scary

  278. September 30, 2014 3:18 pm

    Swing for Jesus

  279. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 30, 2014 4:28 pm

    Yep, there has been in increase in terror

    Woman’s head bashed in racial attack on train:

    The 26-year-old victim was on an Upfield line train outbound on Thursday night when she was approached by another woman, who began hurling abusive and racist remarks.
    The woman grabbed the victim by the neck and hair, and forced her head into the wall of the carriage several times.
    She then pushed the victim off the train as it rolled into Batman Station in Coburg North.
    Advertisement
    Senior Constable Michael Potter said the incident occurred as the train approached the station about 6.55pm on Thursday night.
    He would not confirm the race of the victim…

    …Senior Constable Potter said releasing details about the woman’s race could identify her or potentially lead to further attacks.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/womans-head-bashed-in-racial-attack-on-train-20140929-10nh5a.html#ixzz3EmHSeHkG

    How considerate, he didn’t want to identify the [presumably muslim] victim, how about identifying the attacker?

  280. October 3, 2014 7:24 am

    So Australia is expected to join military air strikes on Iraq.

    But I thought Abbott and Bishop said our involvement was purely a humanitarian one………??

  281. eggboxtroll permalink
    October 3, 2014 7:46 am

    They want to return over a million refugees to Syria, its a humanitarian crisis until this death cult is eliminated from the planet. The ‘do nothing’ green alternative is not worth thinking about.

  282. October 7, 2014 4:56 pm

    Deep Division… What has Abbott unleashed for political gain?
    https://newmatilda.com/2014/10/07/abbott-might-have-got-booed-you-aint-seen-nothing-yet

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