One third of Australia’s largest companies pay less than 10¢ in the dollar in Tax
Almost one third of Australia’s largest companies pay less than 10¢ in the dollar in corporate tax, according to a new EXCLUSIVE report that exposes a gaping hole in government revenues over the past ten years.
As Australia prepares to host world leaders at the G20 summit in Brisbane in November – where a global assault on tax avoidance will be a key topic of discussion – the report found 84 per cent of Australia’s top 200 stockmarket-listed companies pay less than the 30 per cent company tax rate.
Some companies, including household names like James Hardie, do not contribute a dollar to Australian coffers.
Tax minimisation by large companies far outweighs that of small and medium-sized businesses and has a disproportionately large effect on eroding the tax base.
“Tackling corporate tax avoidance is an urgent priority; Australia does not have a spending problem, it has a revenue problem and it must be fixed,” write the authors of the report, Who Pays For Our Common Wealth?
The 90-page look at the the tax contributions of the S&P/ASX 200 between 2004 and 2013 – the first research of its kind attempted – claims up to $80 billion was foregone by the taxman over that period; a sum of money that could all but wipe out the government’s past two budget deficits.
It details the widespread and growing use of subsidiaries in tax havens and so-called “thin capitalisation”, where local entities are saddled with huge debts to reduce tax liabilities in Australia.
Almost 60 per cent of the ASX 200 declare subsidiaries in tax havens. For example, global broadcaster 21st Century Fox has 117 and logistics group Toll Holdings 72 in low-tax jurisdictions, including Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands and Singapore.
Nearly a third of companies have an average “effective tax rate” of 10 per cent or less.
James Hardie pays an effective rate of 0 per cent tax, Sydney Airport 2 per cent and Echo Entertainment – owner of Sydney’s Star Casino – a mere 5 per cent.
Many of the lowest paying companies are real estate investment trusts, which pass some of the tax burden onto investors.
Ahead of its release last Wednesday, the Corporate Tax Association, which represents much of the ASX 200 on tax issues, dismissed the report, saying “usually there are logical explanations for low effective company tax rates”.
But the authors of the report said the scope of their research made it clear that “tax minimisation practices of a minority of very large companies have a significant and disproportionate impact on Australia’s corporate tax revenue base”.
When asked about the report this morning, Finance Minister Mathias Cormann said Australia had some of the toughest anti-tax avoidance laws in the world.
“Having said that, obviously we are very conscious of the fact that we need to continue to be vigilant and we’re working very hard to build a stronger tax administration and to pursue whatever policy response is required, domestically and internationally, through the G20,” he said ABC radio.
Senator Cormann later said he was constrained by what he could say in relation to the individual companies accused of dodging their entire tax obligations.
“I’m very confident that the Tax Commissioner Chris Jordan will be looking very closely at those reports” he said.
David O’Byrne, national secretary of the union United Voice, which sponsored the report along with the Tax Justice Network – a group of charities, unions and churches – said “the corporate tax system is broken”.
“When 29 per cent of Australia’s largest listed companies are paying an effective tax rate of 10 per cent or less, it’s clear that the system is broken,” he said.
“In the last five years the proportion of total tax revenue from business shrank from 23 per cent to 19 per cent, while the proportion from individuals rose from 37 per cent to 39 per cent. Working people across the country are doing all the heavy-lifting because many of our biggest companies are shirking their responsibilities and it’s costing all of us billions of dollars a year.”
The Tax Justice Network and United Voice will call for a parliamentary inquiry into the corporate tax take after briefing federal MPs.
But they will face stiff resistance from the corporate world, which points to Australia’s place at second on the list of countries for company tax take to GDP ratio. Business leaders complain that foreign competitors pay far less in their home countries even though countries like the US have a higher corporate tax rate, of 35 per cent.
Corporate Tax Association executive director Frank Drenth said: “Financial journalists and some civil society groups don’t have a great track record of analysing tax information from published accounts. Financial accounts were never specifically designed to facilitate a detailed analysis of a company’s tax performance.”
In a detailed response, he listed seven reasons why a company’s effective tax rate can fall below 30 per cent, including taxed foreign income not being subject to additional Australian tax, tax offsets for expenditure on research and development, and restructures.
“I completely understand what people mean when they say that companies (especially very large multinationals) should pay their fair share of tax. But as a practical concept that isn’t very useful because different people will have different ideas about what someone’s fair share of tax actually means,” he said.
“The CTA believes there should be a cohesive and clear legal framework that enables all taxpayers, large and small, to be confident that they are complying with their legal obligations. The upcoming white paper on tax reform should present an opportunity for these kinds of issues to be considered.”
The report, which was reviewed by tax and accounting lecturer Dr Roman Lanis from the University of Technology Sydney, does not allege illegal tax avoidance by any company – nor does Fairfax Media – but calls for greater transparency and a national debate on the system.
The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development this month unveiled plans to tackle profit shifting and tax avoidance by multinational corporations and Australian companies will be forced to provide more transparency to the Australian Tax Office from next year.
The ATO declined to comment.
A spokeswoman for James Hardie said the company’s consolidated statement of cash flows showed it had paid $US$495 million. But Michael Kobetsky, an adjunct professor at the Australian National University and fellow of the Taxation Institute of Australia said it was unclear where that tax was paid because James Hardie was domiciled in the Netherlands and had subsidiaries in tax havens, including in Bermuda.
“We know they are not paying tax in Australia because their dividends to shareholders are completely unfranked,” Professor Kobetsky said.
A spokeswoman for Sydney Airport said: “We comply with all Australian tax laws and pay taxes including payroll tax, stamp duties, fringe benefits tax, council rates, GST and other levies, as well as collecting GST on behalf of government.”
A spokeswoman for Treasurer Joe Hockey said: “Companies should pay tax where they earn the profits and that has been [Mr Hockey’s] agenda through G20 negotiations. He will work co-operatively with his global partners for a fair tax regime.”
Fairfax Media’s estimated tax rate is 25 per cent, according to the report, and it has subsidiaries in Malaysia and Singapore.
Labor assistant treasury spokesman Andrew Leigh said: “This data suggests that if all ASX 200 companies paid the full 30 per cent rate of company tax, the budget would gain around $8.4 billion more revenue a year.
That is more than the total savings the government expects to make next year by unfair measures like slashing pensions, bringing in its GP tax and cutting programs for indigenous Australians.”
theguttertrash.com 
I don’t know what methodology the authors of the report used but if this is any indication the report is totally lacking in credibility:
If domiciled in the Netherlands, James Hardie cannot, as a matter of law, pay a franked dividend. All of their dividends must always be unfranked!
But there is more! James Hardie isn’t even domiciled in the Netherlands and has not been since 2010. In fact it is an Irish company! And guess what? Irish companies can’t frank their dividends either!
If the purveyors of this report can’t even get the most basic facts right, why would anyone give it a moment’s consideration?
Didn’t they go to the netherlands to avoid paying proper compensation to asbestos victims sb?
http://www.smh.com.au/business/james-hardie-directors-lose-final-appeal-20121112-298v1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hardie
…In December 2001, the company shareholders unanimously voted to restructure and relocate the company in the Netherlands as a parent company. This was part of a strategy to separate the company from the stigma of its asbestos liabilities.[8]
How come lefties are all of a sudden worried about tax avoidance?
And apparently Abbott rang up the tax dept and got them to give Rupert a $900M tax break. If this is true why isn’t the ALP all over this?
That, and the fact that the Netherlands was a much more favourable tax jurisdiction for multinationals. Any multinational that chooses to be headquartered in Australia is deliberately choosing to subject itself to a more complex and higher taxing regime.
Fascinating splattering, the point of the post;
http://m.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/big-business-shirks-fair-share-of-tax-load-20140928-3gtm2.html
(source)
is that corp`s are bludging on us, not illegally mind you, but engineered to, by our canberra (and states to some extent), while gouging huge profits out of our marketplace, there reducing opportunity for local biz and workforce,
your franking credit sideshow is neither here nor there, and armchair is absolutely correct that hardy fled aust to avoid asbestos damages #teabags
while gouging huge profits out of our marketplace, thereFORE reducing opportunity for local biz and workforce,
”””are all of a sudden worried about tax avoidance?”””
your own words ””all of a sudden”” really show what an imbecile you are,
most complaints on this blog (and others) about govt is about the `unfairness` of our system that makes people 3rd-class citizens in their own country while paying the full-whack of tax with limited deductions; while local and foreign corps are treated as 1st-class citizens with ridiculous levels of gifts/clawbacks/taxbreaks #teabag
‘When a dodgy sounding outfit called the Tax Justice Network produces a report that has been sponsored by the dodgy union, United Voice (this union was always doing deals with the Gillard government – recall the aged care and childcare wage funds designed to promote union membership), you think that most journalists would be very very suspicious. But not the luvvies at The Age – they fall this sort of stuff every time.
‘They seem to have no understanding of even the basic features of the tax codes that apply to Australian listed companies, including:
►Overseas operations complicate tax matters significantly. James Hardie, which is cited in the article and is now domiciled in the Netherlands, pays unfranked dividends to Australian residents,who are then fully taxed (no franking credits). There is no evasion going on here.
►Real estate investment trusts are also taxed differently from other companies with more of the tax being paid by the security holders.
►Companies which make large investments in tangible and intangible assets will pay less tax in the short-run; we need these investments for future prosperity. Again, this is not a form of tax evasion.
‘It is interesting that the ABC has picked up this dodgy report but not other media outlets.’
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/09/29/the-age-falls-for-crap-yet-again/
What percentage of those profits get paid as dividends to the share/stock-holders Tinfoil`osy.? 2%.? Would that leave 98% not-taxed.?
What percentage of those trust profits get paid as `distributions/dividends` to those `security-holders` Tinfoil`osy.? 2%.?
””””””Companies which make large investments in tangible and intangible assets will pay less tax in the short-run; we need these investments for future prosperity.””””””
Shouldn`t shareholder `capital-injections` come from post-tax profit Tinfoil`osy.? Not pre-tax income-streams.?
Yes Tinfoil`osy, you have omitted critical-numbers and critical-detail in your comments. #teabags #unsurprising #LyingByOmission.?
#ignorantfuckwit #knownothing #numbersarehard
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/09/29/the-age-falls-for-crap-yet-again/
I noticed tim ‘freedom’ wilson getting in a sneaky promo for that hangout of neoliberal nutjobs catallaxy and liberal party barracker the very partisan judith ‘grow the pie’ sloan on their ABC-the drum!
“I am not evading tax in any way, shape or form. Now of course I am minimizing my tax and if anybody in this country doesn’t minimize their tax they want their heads read because as a government I can tell you you’re not spending it that well that we should be donating extra.” ~ Kerry Packer
“I’ve already given you the answer on this subject, I have told you that I pay whatever tax I am required to pay under the law, not a penny more, not a penny less, and the suggestion that I am trying to evade tax, which is what you’re putting forward, I find highly offensive and I don’t intend to cooperate with you in the blackening of my character.” ~ Kerry Packer
Quite so.
the well fed sloan is a teabag mouth-piece that will always make arguments that the needy have to tighten their belts and the rich should get even more
You need to point out what laws have been broken. Everything else is moralising.
””””You need to point out what laws have been broken.”””’
l specifically pointed that out in my 1st or 2nd comment up-thread.
moralising=pointing out perversion
#l notice you ran from the meat and potatoes Tinfoil`osy
“l specifically pointed that out in my 1st or 2nd comment up-thread.”
Must have missed it amongst your illegible drivel. Re-state in plain English what laws were broken. If you can.
Actually, your drivel is probably legible, in a way. It’s just incoherent.
Tinfoil`osy###
Fascinating splattering, the point of the post;
http://m.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/big-business-shirks-fair-share-of-tax-load-20140928-3gtm2.html
(source)
is that corp`s are bludging on us,
####-not illegally mind you,-#### but engineered to, by our canberra
In other words, an argument about morals, Nothing at all to do with the rule-of-law, which applies equally to all. (Or should, anyway.)
#ruleoflaw #moralisingmoralisers
Moralists are often misguided in their thinking and, even though they mean well, they soft in the head.
You can’t have it both ways. You either believe in the rule of law or you don’t. If you don’t then it’s my moral/ethical code versus yours. A battle of beliefs with no rules to moderate the game.
ISIS/ISIL/IS (etc etc) believe in their own righteous moral code. Infidels shall convert, or off with their heads!
#mosaysso
of course its pointing out perversion/moralising Tinfoil`osy,
teabag pantiewetting over `bludging` single mothers welfare, but not corporate bludging that could pay the defecit twice,
once again Tinfoil`osy, you argue claims nobody made, but run when challenged on your own claims #teabags
———————–
good to see ya`out of the sin-bin dumpty, l like the canberra dunny-lid
“but run when challenged on your own claims”
You really are a moron, aren’t you. I don’t know why I bother, but here goes. What are these so-called claims I’ve so-called run away from?
””””You either ”’believe”’ in the rule of law or you don’t.””””
wrong
.
the system/Law/rules either works, or doesn`t
for many the system doesn`t work
ie from tax to gay-marriage
.
and when any `system/Law` is perverse/corrupt/stacked against the majority, ya`don`t have much of a system anyway
Oh, so it’s not an either/or question, then. Please enlighten us* on the other option(s). 🙄
*royalwealert
#ilikethelawsilike
#thelawsidontlikeareimmoral
””””””””ISIS/ISIL/IS (etc etc) believe in their own righteous moral code. Infidels shall convert, or off with their heads!”””””””
as you`ve brought teabag pantie-soiling into the mix,
do you really think those that don`t have the brains and backbone to make corporations to pay tax, will really be able to protect you.?
I repeat: What are these so-called claims I’ve so-called run away from?
Q.E.D.
qed.? sorry tinfoil`osy, l can`t see your video, stripped it from my pc to make pageload faster
(Rising tides lift all boats.)
(The GFC never happened.)
(Representative taxation is optional.)
(SEZ who?)
(For Certain Nick, History repeats. They will sit back and enjoy their yachts and await the pitchforks, bullets or guillotine, as previous elites did.)
(””snow man 2 months ago
Because you can’t see beyond the world of bloodless economics to the world people actually live in, you miss the real significance of Hanauer’s statement: “There can never be enough super-rich Americans to power a great economy. I earn about 1,000 times the median American annually, but I don’t buy thousands of times more stuff.” In other words, the local economic impact of the rich is minimal. Maybe their savings end up as loans somewhere else, but the rich don’t add much more to their community than most people. There’s only so much milk they need. They can only dine out so many times. Their kids only need so much stuff.
Instead of standard screed against his proposal, why don’t you write about your own economic impact. What do you add to your town? How have local business prospered thanks to you? I think you’ll find that whatever your level of wealth you don’t do much more than most.””)
“for many the system doesn`t work
ie from tax to gay-marriage”
Exactly….. I see that ToSY seems to struggle with concepts that are a little more nuanced than simple black and white “you either believe in the rule of law or you don’t” propositions…
So Abbott Govt MP Bill Heffernan has supported the report’s claims that companies are evading tax in Australia.
I guess he must be a Union stooge.
“Exactly….. I see that ToSY seems to struggle with concepts that are a little more nuanced than simple black and white “you either believe in the rule of law or you don’t” propositions…”
Yeah, not really.
In fact, ToSY agrees with Churchill that “democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time”. He has even offered an alternative, where government is smaller and as many decisions as possible are left to the individual.
ToSY also dislikes many of our laws, but, at the same time, accepts the rule of law, and knows he will suffer the consequences should he be caught breaking any of them.
So, by all means, rail against laws you don’t like. But spare me the pretense this thread’s about anything other than moral outrage.
The “academic” who audited the report doesn’t understand that foreign companies can’t pay franked dividends. That should tell you all you need to know about the report. It is a political document trying to fire up the permanently outraged. This is all about wilful blindness as an excuse for moral posturing.
If a young accountant at any reputable accounting firm made that most basic mistake they would be fired on the spot.
” But spare me the pretense this thread’s about anything other than moral outrage.”
NTTAWWT
But spare me the pretense this thread’s about anything other than moral outrage.
You can perhaps understand this “moral outrage” you claim when you see the least well off in the country getting slammed by cigar chomping numbnuts under the guise of a “budget emergency”, while at the same time not just maintaining but extending a protection racket for their big ended mates.
I haven’t seen any talk of illegality except by you tony. Why raise it then? What is being asked is that loopholes are closed off that allow these big companies to NOT “share the load”.
“You can perhaps understand this “moral outrage” you claim when you see the least well off in the country getting slammed by cigar chomping numbnuts under the guise of a “budget emergency”
HEAR HEAR!
“”If a young accountant at any reputable accounting firm made that most basic mistake they would be fired on the spot.””
Actually………………….he probably would not have graduated
This is what the gumnints solution is while companies are paying 10% tax. Moral outrage? FUCK YEA!
A bipartisan parliamentary report has found the Federal Government will breach its international obligations if it goes ahead with its budget proposal to force young jobseekers to wait six months for unemployment benefits.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-30/dole-wait-will-breach-human-rights-bipartisan-report-finds/5777882
Unconscionable bastards that they are.
In other words, an argument about morals, Nothing at all to do with the rule-of-law, which applies equally to all. (Or should, anyway.)
it’s about ethics.
If we can encourage moral outrage about ‘lifters and leaners’, we can most certainly scrutinise the bludgers who are expert leaners while pretending to be an atlas or hercules.
it’s easily fixed, all this outrage isn’t it, just make those tax dodges illegal.
It may be the ‘rule of law’ but we all know the law is not always right, or just and some laws need reform to correct massive loopholes that rorters use for personal gain.
Rising tides lift all boats
Except when a few yachts become ocean liners and swamp the tinnies.
The tide may well lift all boats (bullshit), but what about those unfortunate enough not to have a boat?
What tax dodges, exactly? We have a highly complex tax system which is amended about 4 times a year and which has strong anti-avoidance provisions. All companies pay 30% on their taxable income so what exactly does the 10% refer to?
The things that need changing go to the design of the system – should we have R&D allowances, should we allow franking of dividends, should companies be able to carry forward losses or should we have depreciation deductions for capital expenditure?
One of the more idiotic points seems to be that trusts aren’t taxed. That is a design feature whereby the beneficiaries and not the trustees are taxed. It doesn’t mean that no tax is paid. In terms of large collective investment vehicles this treatment is only available to certain forms of passive investment.
Virtually all countries the world over allow real estate and infrastructure investment to be carried on by trusts or similar vehicles whereby the investors rather than the entity are taxed. If Australia went it alone and taxed the income at the trustee level all that would do is kill of billions of dollars in foreign investment each year. Even the ALP wasn’t that stupid.
If you want sensible outcomes, there is no place in this debate for idiotic, ill-informed, mongrel-minded unions and their lackeys.
Six-month wait for dole would breach human rights, bipartisan parliamentary committee finds:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-30/dole-wait-will-breach-human-rights-bipartisan-report-finds/5777882
…A bipartisan parliamentary report has found the Federal Government will breach its international obligations if it goes ahead with its budget proposal to force young jobseekers to wait six months for unemployment benefits…
If you want sensible outcomes, there is no place in this debate for idiotic, ill-informed, mongrel-minded unions and their lackeys.
I’m pretty sure hockey would be affronted for you implying he is a union lackey
But, when it comes to “lifters and leaners”, it has been quite obvious for some time now that the big business “leaners” have been “lifting” off the common folk all along.
Adobe, Google and Apple all trad on line here in Australia. My Adobe bill each month come from Ireland and I pay in AUD. They pay no tax whatsoever for anything they sell online..same for most OS on line traders in services and software.
Thats Fucked IMHO
Look at the mining gravy boat… Gina’s gigantic hole pays fuck all tax yet want a separate slavery state where she pays no tax because she is divorced from the reality of wher she lives and who’s iron ore she is pillaging.
This inequality is ridiculous, especially lone swaps… Swan to his credit tried to shut this down and it was thwarted as gift for services rendered to the fiberal donation club..just like Murdochs tax bill.
This amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars ro in fiberal terms
would finance General Abbott and the despots of Team Australia’s quest for crushing the oppressive muslim terror threat to our panties.
“”“This data suggests that if all ASX 200 companies paid the full 30 per cent rate of company tax, the budget would gain around $8.4 billion more revenue a year.””
Now that is a very ignorant comment coming from Leigh who I would have thought would know better.
“Adobe, Google and Apple all trad on line here in Australia. My Adobe bill each month come from Ireland and I pay in AUD.”
Excellent point…
The company I work for spends around $20K a month on Google advertising….
The charge on the Company credit card comes from Google Singapore and we pay in Aussie dollars too.
‘Six-month wait for dole would breach human rights, bipartisan parliamentary committee finds.’
Yep, its a hard sell and unlikely to get up. It has an unashamedly ideological aspect and too few votes to warrant all the effort.
They may come up with a sophisticated card for unemployed recipients to get food and lodgings, but this still wouldn’t be enough to convince the cross benches to pass it.
So it seems that there is an Adobecompany which is an Irish company and pays tax in Ireland for providing you with software online. The Irish-Australia tax treaty is designed to ensure that companies get taxed only once rather than twice on the same income. Let’s say that the rule under that treaty is that Irish resident companies get taxed in Ireland. How is that a problem? That is exactly what the OECD model treaty would provide.
“Adobe, Google and Apple all trad on line here in Australia. My Adobe bill each month come from Ireland and I pay in AUD.”
OK
If you go onto lets say Nordstrom USA and buy some stuff from them in Australian dollars do you expect Nordstrom to pay income tax here for products you are having shipped from the USA ?
Because if you do then everything will rise in price by the amount of tax you want them to pay here or they just wont deal with you……………………simple
I’m pretty sure Apple would pay Australian tax for stuff sold in their Apple stores in Australia.
Maybe Splatter but Thin Capitalisation (Transfer Pricing via interest payments) is the International Tax Experts flavour of the month at the moment.
And sorry Ricky but Swan did no better at combating it than anyone else. Its not just a Joe Hockey problem it requires world wide attention.
Besides corporate tax lost is not going to fill the Revenue/Spending Deficit created by the likes of the NDIS.
In fact the NDIS should have been tied to a rise in the GST and higher welfare payments for pensioners etc.
Instead that fuckwit Gillard simply left behind a great big fucking deficit in the out years
But, when it comes to “lifters and leaners”, it has been quite obvious for some time now that the big business “leaners” have been “lifting” off the common folk all along.
The ‘trickle up’ ideology of the poor needing a whack with a stick to make them productive so the wealthy can have carrots to do anything at all.
It’s all a sleight of hand, if you get the lower/middle classes enraged about welfare bludgers, muslims and terrorists, asylum seekers, minorities and shit scared of losing their jobs, they forget all about what the top end of town is doing.
If you have business unions and their lobbies permanently outraged about debt & deficit, govt spending – you tend to forget that there is a supply problem, we need more revenue. Why have governments been cutting corporate taxes over the years when they have been making more and more profits?
We have a need for people to pay their fair share of tax if we want to maintain the living standards that most enjoy as australians. This includes the speculators who are negative gearing, they are getting massive benefits from other taxpayers, what do they give back?
http://www.smh.com.au/business/james-hardie-paid-an-average-of-0-in-corporate-tax-over-past-decade-20140929-10nntx.html
…In the past two years, James Hardie has rewarded its shareholders with $592 million worth of dividends and its stock has soared. Chief executive Louis Gries was paid $12.9 million last year, making him high up on the league table of corporate pay packets.
This month, the company was warned by the Asbestos Injuries Compensation Fund, established to compensate mesothelioma victims, that it could suffer a funding shortfall by 2017 and be forced to call on the NSW government for a bailout.
The fund is a separate entity to James Hardie but the company has agreed to pay 35 per cent of operating cash flow every year into the fund.
The contributions – about $120 million last year – are tax-deductible.
An analyst told Fairfax that that tax-deductibility could obscure the real picture.
A spokeswoman for James Hardie said the company had paid $US495 million in tax over the past eight ears.
But Michael Kobetsky, an adjunct professor at the Australian National University and fellow of the Tax Institute, said its unfranked dividends proved that none of that had been paid in Australia and the company could actually be in front…
They Do Splatter but on average around 70% of their business is on line. Thats why they make it attractive to purchase on line.
Ancillary and value add App store purchases are a large part of their business as they are with Google (the android goldmine). Adobe do most of their stuff online now and I’m part of their rapidly growing Creative Cloud community. The physical box for software at POS is like the video store…. thing of the past.
I do feel that companies that openly trade here have a moral obligation to their clients to pay tax but conceed its a double edged sword. Politicians (especially the fiberal party) have a hard time dealing with matters of technology and tax evasion is in their DNA.
“but Thin Capitalisation (Transfer Pricing via interest payments) is…. “
*eyes glazing over…*
Here’s an idea: let’s remove all these so-called deductions and drive the rest of these so-called companies offshore to those so-called tax havens. Then we won’t have to worry about how much tax they pay. It’ll be someone else’s problem.
And a will to do it… Joes lot have a great deal of debt to repay to the electoral speculators on the fiberal donation list… FTA’s make lots of noise but they are a lip serving head nodding exercise in compliant self serving interest. This is why the double Irish exists and is allowed to continue. They broke up Bell labs for predatory collusion and its tiny compared to the Google global goliath.
I agree with Swan that such tax evasion is bad for competitive growth and only serves to create the anti competitive corporate mega monsters that the free market advocates claim is evil… while denying developing markets capital to service their social programs enabling people from poverty.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-29/a-third-of-top-australian-companies-pay-less-than-10pc-tax/5775870
Swan did no better at combating it than anyone else
At least they tried, and, to a small degree, succeeded.
Of course, this mob has wound it all back and more.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/g20-a-pretext-for-inaction-on-tax-avoidance-20140929-10nq24.html#ixzz3ElKb7hpi
…The government could move to make the tax laws and regulation more transparent tomorrow and the corporate regulator could insist on companies publishing general purpose financial statements. The tools are there to bring in billions in tax, all that is needed is some fair dinkum government…
“But Michael Kobetsky, an adjunct professor at the Australian National University and fellow of the Tax Institute, said its unfranked dividends proved that none of that had been paid in Australia and the company could actually be in front…”
Fucking idiot!
Ah, Comrade Pilger. And I thought I had left immature sloganeering BS behind when I finished Uni.
Ah, Comrade Pilger.
Comrade? And I thought we had left immature sloganeering BS behind 😆
Those wanting higher company taxes should be mindful of unintended consequences.
Listed companies are (generally) valued according to their profitability. About 12 times earnings is a rule of thumb.
Higher company taxes will reduce profits, reducing share values, reducing superannuation assets.
Which is ok, as long as that is part of the plan.
Ah, Comrade Pilger. And I thought I had left immature sloganeering BS behind when I finished Uni.
don’t think so sb, you must have been in a self induced coma for about 4 yrs.
there’s been nothing but cheap slogans from abbott pty ltd
Higher company taxes will reduce profits, reducing share values, reducing superannuation assets.
Yes. And the Carbon Tax will close Whyalla, and the Mining tax will send Rio etal running to Africa.
Funny, we’ve had that tune played for us before. It sounded off then too.
Yeah thats all very nice for them Tom.. but ever stop to consider the prospect that the reason that these companies are over valued is because they are fucking corporate tax evading thieves?
just sayin…
And if somebody says they are hero’s and earned their right to thievery because they “employ people” ,,,assume the standard catlick rogering position.
Tom, I’m sure Pilger would be pleased with that honorific.
Higher company taxes will reduce profits, reducing share values, reducing superannuation assets.
Which is ok, as long as that is part of the plan.
OK by me, I have never understood that notion where people have to do without now, so that companies that exploit them profit massively, all for a promise of having a few bucks when they are too old, sick and ground down by their working life to enjoy it.
You must be talking about the ones who get wealthy and have stacks to throw into their hugely taxpayer subsidised super, not the ones at the bottom who are having theirs cut and delayed by the abbott.
I didn’t say higher company tax would destroy companies.
But get serious Tom R, are you suggesting-
* Higher company taxes won’t affect profitability?
* Profitability doesn’t underpin the value of a company?
* Superannuation assets aren’t largely based around the value of companies?
It’s simply a matter of comprehending the foreseeable outcomes of policy changes.
“It’s simply a matter of comprehending the foreseeable outcomes of policy changes.”
And that is why most ALP policies fail. It is the party of the unforeseen stuffup.
I see austerity gets a mention again. Why don’t these leftists deadheads realise that austerity is tried because socialists have trashed the budget. How about not trashing the budget in the first place and then austerity measures would not be needed.
Perhaps yomm is able to explain the superannuation benefits of a company like james hardie to a person like Bernie Banton.
austerity for some people only, not the types who get $60,000 scholarship freebies with donations of clothing & suits plus legal fees donated for all lawsuits arising from your abuses of the political system. Federal ICC? no way, they say, we never do anything wrong, its all ‘within the rules and laws’!
War. What Is It Good For? Distracting From a Budget Emergency!
https://newmatilda.com/2014/09/30/war-what-it-good-distracting-budget-emergency
…Why did the deficit increase? In the main, because of decisions taken by the government. The biggest ticket item was the perplexing $8.8 billion given by the government to the Reserve Bank, to shore up its cash reserves.
We still don’t have an adequate explanation for this decision. Hockey said the money was a special top-up to rebuild the Reserve Bank’s foreign exchange buffer fund. Reserve Bank Governor Glenn Stevens said something rather different: that, while the Bank wanted to recharge the fund over time, it didn’t need to replenish it all at once. According to Stevens, “the effect of this is that instead of it taking many years to rebuild the capital, it will occur in the current year.” As a result, Hockey can raid this fund in future budgets if he wants – for instance in an election year…
I’m not particularly bothered about higher company tax, as long as those proposing the change are aware of the foreseeable consequences.
AO acknowledges this. Tom R seems to be in denial.
What is it with lefties and taxing the crap out of people. Also Koukoulas says that the Howard govt was the highest taxing govt in Australian history when it suits his argument.
so does ben eltham, it’s quite true!
https://newmatilda.com/2014/09/30/war-what-it-good-distracting-budget-emergency
…We can’t support our current social safety net – already badly fraying – while taxing at only 22.7 per cent of GDP.
The good news is that we can pay more tax without major pain. No-one thinks of the Howard government as a high taxing government, but in fact it collected revenues of 25 per cent of GDP for the entire 2000s.
Much of this was a windfall in company tax receipts, but even so, it underlines the reality that the current deficit is a result of low revenues, not high spending…
…Instead, Hockey is committed to cutting corporate taxes, and has done little to address the loopholes that allow many corporations to minimise taxes and shift profits offshore…
…What has the Coalition done about corporate tax dodging? Not much. On taking office, it announced it would abandon some of Labor’s measures to stop corporate tax avoidance. For instance, Labor wanted to kill off section 25-90 of the Income Tax Assessment Act, which would have cracked down on so-called “thin capitalisation”. Under pressure from the big end of town, Hockey backed down on that and other measures; the total impact was a revenue hit of more than $1.1 billion. He has slashed thousands of jobs from the Australian Tax Office…
So how did the Reserve Bank’s capital reserves get run down in the first place?
And the fact is that there is only one rate of tax for companies, which they all pay, 30% on their taxable income. Comparing tax paid to accounting income is not particularly relevant or enlightening. To leap to pre-conceived conclusions from such an analysis is where leftist wankery kicks in. This is a purely poltical campaign built on bullshit analysis.
“”NAB, CommBank, ANZ and Westpac are paying far less in tax than the official corporate income tax rate of 30%. But trying to figure out how exactly they get away with it proves tricky. “”
That is such a stupid comment it does not even deserve a response.
For a comment to be that fundamentally stupid I bet it came from Bernard Keane the resident Crikey Idiot.
He likely knows why they don’t pay 30% (in fact sometimes its more than 30%) but that wouldn’t provide any outrage to sell subscriptions to the idiots that buy it
“”Perhaps yomm is able to explain the superannuation benefits of a company like james hardie to a person like Bernie Banton.”
And what the fuck is that supposed to mean ?
.
jackson’s godwin grech moment:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/hsu-demands-1m-from-kathy-jackson-for-misusing-union-funds/story-fn59niix-1227075132834
…THE Health Services Union has sought an immediate court judgment against its national secretary Kathy Jackson and is seeking orders that she pay more than $1 million for misusing union funds.
So lets me get this clear…
Squeal and Walrus are ok with people trading is Australia and not paying tax?
and I assume you are OK with People like Reinhardt playing 5c in the dollar ?
Sorry Wally to lump you in with the muppet I suspect he doesn’t understand what he’s even complaining against
“Walrus are ok with people trading is Australia and not paying tax?”
But that’;s not what I said is it.
I compared your presumably GST free purchase ( I’m assuming the shopping site is OS) of Adobe from a site overseas to a purchase from Nordstrom in the USA.
It seems to me you are trying to equate the location of your expenditure as the same place as the taxable income arose in the case of Adobe. If so you’d need to do it on all overseas sites.
I don’t see the difference in you jumping on a plane with a fistful of dollars and going into a Nordstrom store in LA and spending the money directly there.
*************WARNING : EYES GLAZING OVER ALERT******************
There are plenty of reasons that a 30% tax rate might not be achieved.
We call them timing differences and might arise due to accelerated depreciation ( the ATO might allow you to deduct all the depreciation on a computer over 3 years but the Company itself deducts over5 years which it sees as the probable useful life).
Plus you have employee provisions (annual and long service leave) which are deducted from accounting profit each year (i.e. provided for by setting aside some profits) but are not actually deducted from taxable income until they are paid to the employees.
And there are plenty of other reasons.
Anyone who claims any knowledge of finance and doesn’t realise that is either bullshitting you or are just plain fucking stupid.
”””””””””’I see that ToSY seems to struggle with concepts that are a little more nuanced than simple black and white”””””””””
Tinfoil`osy (and teabags generally) prefer to remain within their biz-doctrine and ignore history, common sense, ethics and fairness. They are not the first to do so. The elites thru history have always been surprised when the wheels have fallen off and violent action taken by those they ruled over.
Today canberra follows teh-usa Govt and Biz models. Watch the surprise that will be displayed sometime in the future, when somebody somewhere goes columbine/postal, and the elites will all claim it was not foreseeable. #teabags
Perhaps the libs can ‘donate’ the HSU funds to kathy jackson, after all the extra help and assistance from their mate michael lawler was priceless. Maybe michael smith, the jackson/lawler’s property tenant will start a campaign for public donations.
Not really incestuous or suspicious, the whole witch hunt has just brought them all closer!
For a comment to be that fundamentally stupid I bet it came from Bernard Keane the resident Crikey Idiot.
He likely knows why they don’t pay 30% (in fact sometimes its more than 30%) but that wouldn’t provide any outrage to sell subscriptions to the idiots that buy it..
Don’t let the fact that the author is paddy manning stop you from a moment’s unhinging!
”””I haven’t seen any talk of illegality except by you”””
Yes, that` our Tinfoil`osy, he prefers to answer challenges not made, rather than the challenges made. #LookOverThere
“”……….and I assume you are OK with People like Reinhardt playing 5c in the dollar ?””
It would surprise me if she was even paying that in the “Front Years”.
She would have millions/billions perhaps in initial prospecting/exploration expenditures to recoup before she would be paying any tax.
Having a mining background myself I can tell you if you don’t allow recoupment of expenditure then you wont get exploration.
Another case in point is BHP Billiton. It has spent billions proving up Olympic Dam in South Australia but even now it cannot get the technology right to mine the site completely due to overburden issues. Once it does get the tech side correct why shouldn’t it be able to recoup its costs before paying tax ?
Otherwise you are completely commercially bankrupt and illogical and you might as well just out yourself as completely anti industry which I’m sure KL would also embrace
“”Don’t let the fact that the author is paddy manning stop you from a moment’s unhinging!””
Well that means there are at least 2 fundamentally stupid people at Crikey
Fucking Hell………………………. TeaBag is back online
Does someone have a fucking spare Enigma Machine I can borrow??????????????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine
“THE Health Services Union has sought an immediate court judgment against its national secretary Kathy Jackson and is seeking orders that she pay more than $1 million for misusing union funds.”
So even good Labor Party people are corrupt.
”””physical box for software at POS is like the video store”””
while l agree with ya`wishes ricky, l tend to suspect the google-monster/apple/etc will easily defeat our dumb-arse Govt/s, they haven`t had the brains and balls to fully govern/tax in the physical world, the have no hope in hell to govern/tax the non-physical
This is a purely poltical campaign built on bullshit analysis.
Much like BUDGET CRISIS and the ‘independent’ commission of audit by tony shepherd and the business union/lobby.
while l agree with ya`wishes ricky, l tend to suspect the google-monster/apple/etc will easily defeat our dumb-arse Govt/s
I think so too, whenever faced with demands by big wealth and power, our governments crumble and give them everything they want before they’re even get asked.
”””Those wanting higher company taxes”””
”higher taxes”’
l see `our` Personal Fluffer is kneeling in front of the corporate zipper, AGAIN ! ! !
How about they actually pay the existing tax-rate.?
””our governments crumble””
Yep, and with the online monsters, google, facebook, yahoo, twitter, if they all switched Aust consumers off their system, the biz/public outrage would have the Govt/s back-peddling in less than 48-hours l reckon.
(no gmail, no facebook, no twitter, no google/search/docs/plus)
“Yes, that` our Tinfoil`osy, he prefers to answer challenges not made, rather than the challenges made. #LookOverThere
LOL! So true! Very astute observation there bags… 🙂
””””””””””””Having a mining background myself I can tell you if you don’t allow recoupment of expenditure then you wont get exploration.””””””””’
Clearly that doesn`t include history of mining. All kind of mining went on thru history without any `recoupment` Govt welfare involved. Your `recoupment` clap-trap has only kicked-in since corporations have been welfare recipients.
Just imagine that much coin going into health, education and the RET
ooh, where’s TB?
Clive Palmer secures Labor and Greens support for Campbell Newman inquiry
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/sep/30/clive-palmer-labor-greens-campbell-newman-inquiry
…Clive Palmer has succeeded in launching an extraordinary Senate inquiry focusing on Queensland’s Newman government, prompting a warning from the Coalition that “what goes around comes around”.
The Coalition complained that the move was driven by the Palmer United party (PUP) leader’s “vendetta” against the premier, Campbell Newman, and violated the principle that one parliament should not sit in judgment of another parliament.
But Labor and the Greens voted with PUP senators and the Australian Motoring Enthusiast party representative Ricky Muir to set up the inquiry.
Labor’s deputy Senate leader, Stephen Conroy, said the Coalition’s comments about upholding conventions were hollow in light of its earlier decisions to launch politically motivated royal commissions into the former government’s home insulation program and trade union governance.
The new inquiry has broad terms of reference to investigate a range of issues in Queensland, including the administration of the courts and judicial independence, approval processes for resources projects and “any other matter the committee considers relevant”.
The five-member panel will be chaired by the PUP Senate leader, Glenn Lazarus, and include two Labor senators, one Greens senator and one Coalition senator…
…“any other matter the committee considers relevant”…
would ashbygate come under that heading?
feel sure that clive would know where there are some lib/nat skeletons.
“ooh, where’s TB?”
On holiday I think with the minister….
“Yes, that` our Tinfoil`osy, he prefers to answer challenges not made, rather than the challenges made. #LookOverThere”
Guffaw! I’m still waiting for you to enlighten me on when I have “run when challenged on your own claims”.
You really are a fucking moron.
””””””’The Coalition complained that the move was driven by the Palmer United party (PUP) leader’s “vendetta” against the premier, Campbell Newman,””””’
#nice find armchair, great to see the pups cocking their leg on the teabags #go-clive
here Tinfoil`osy, when you`re too dopey to simply scroll-up, maybe you hold-back on `flaming` others
#
One Turd permalink
September 29, 2014 8:43 pm
‘When a dodgy sounding outfit called the Tax Justice Network produces a report that has been sponsored by the dodgy union, United Voice (this union was always doing deals with the Gillard government – recall the aged care and childcare wage funds designed to promote union membership), you think that most journalists would be very very suspicious. But not the luvvies at The Age – they fall this sort of stuff every time.
‘They seem to have no understanding of even the basic features of the tax codes that apply to Australian listed companies, including:
►Overseas operations complicate tax matters significantly. James Hardie, which is cited in the article and is now domiciled in the Netherlands, pays unfranked dividends to Australian residents,who are then fully taxed (no franking credits). There is no evasion going on here.
►Real estate investment trusts are also taxed differently from other companies with more of the tax being paid by the security holders.
►Companies which make large investments in tangible and intangible assets will pay less tax in the short-run; we need these investments for future prosperity. Again, this is not a form of tax evasion.
‘It is interesting that the ABC has picked up this dodgy report but not other media outlets.’
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/09/29/the-age-falls-for-crap-yet-again/
#
Plat`it`again`Teabag permalink
September 29, 2014 8:57 pm
What percentage of those profits get paid as dividends to the share/stock-holders Tinfoil`osy.? 2%.? Would that leave 98% not-taxed.?
#
Play`it`again`Teabag permalink
September 29, 2014 9:01 pm
What percentage of those trust profits get paid as `distributions/dividends` to those `security-holders` Tinfoil`osy.? 2%.?
#
Play`it`again`Teabag permalink
September 29, 2014 9:06 pm
””””””Companies which make large investments in tangible and intangible assets will pay less tax in the short-run; we need these investments for future prosperity.””””””
Shouldn`t shareholder `capital-injections` come from post-tax profit Tinfoil`osy.? Not pre-tax income-streams.?
Yes Tinfoil`osy, you have omitted critical-numbers and critical-detail in your comments. #teabags #unsurprising #LyingByOmission.?
Still waiting for any claims I’ve made and “run when challenged on”.
As for your inane questions, they don’t merit a response.
#fuckingfuckwit
”””they don’t merit a response.”””
#yep, that`s running Tinfoil`osy 🙂
“#yep, that`s running Tinfoil`osy :-)”
No, that’s ignoring.
However, your 2% of profits paid as dividends scenario? Guffaw. CBA, for example, pays around 75%.
Read this, as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend_imputation
Try educating yourself, instead of constantly embarrassing yourself.
Now, about those imaginary claims of mine that I’ve run from …. 🙄
#imbecilicfuckwit
Hmmm. Bagz has since commented on other threads, but has “run from his claims” on this one.
#whatafuckingwanker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend_imputation
was there a specific point to this.?
(yes Tinfoil`osy, l know what `franked` is)
“(yes Tinfoil`osy, l know what `franked` is)”
Really? Do you know how ridiculous a 2% dividend payout ratio is?
Didn’t think so.
””””””””However, your 2% of profits paid as dividends scenario? Guffaw. CBA, for example, pays around 75%.””””””””’
1. ya edocument viewer bloatware didn`t load on my old pc
2. CBA now, changing horses to suit ya arguement, Hardie was mentioned before.
””dividend payout ratio is?”” For Hardie.? Tinfoil`osy.?
2. CBA now, changing horses to suit ya arguement, Hardie was mentioned before.
Hardie is domiciled offshore, so doesn’t pay tax (or qualify for franking credits) in Australia. However, their earnings per share was US 44 cents and their dividend was US 45 cents.
file:///C:/Users/Tony/Downloads/2014_annual_review%20(1).pdf
Greater than 100% dividend payout ratio, compared to your imaginary 2%. Exactly what the fuck is your point?
http://www.ir.jameshardie.com.au/public/download.jsp?id=4851
“”What percentage of those profits get paid as dividends to the share/stock-holders
Tinfoil`osy.? 2%.? Would that leave 98% not-taxed.?””
I can perfectly understand why ToSY ignores a question like that.
Dividends are after tax distributions not pre-tax you knucklehead and I’ve already explainmed in the “”Eyes Glazing Over Zone”” above why you’ll never get a 30% rate whether the company is on the ASX or runs a fucking corner shop/lawn mowing business.
And you also have the trust distribution question arse about as well since Trust Distributions a generally taxed at the marginal tax rate of the unit holder
“”Shouldn`t shareholder `capital-injections` come from post-tax profit “”
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…………………………..it already does by not being distributed as after tax Dividends. In fact the mining sector has quite a low dividend yield being they plough so much of their after tax profits into further investment.
Go and learn something about tax before commenting on such a complex area
“Go and learn something about tax “
That’s a piece of advice I personally will leave to the Cardigan Club.
the Cardigan Club appears to be changing sides
A report by the independent Inspector-General of Taxation has raised serious concerns about an exodus of experienced staff from the ATO at a time when money flowing between Australian companies and their foreign subsidiaries has topped $270 billion – a sum that equates to more than half of the Commonwealth Budget.
Sources close to the ATO told Fairfax Media many of the ATO’s most experienced staff in tracking international profits have moved to the big four accounting firms, where they now advise the nation’s biggest companies on how to minimise their tax.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/government-warned-that-ato-not-up-to-catching-tax-avoiders-20140930-10oa22.html
Yep, our genius gubmint has “stopped the waste” by sacking employees who actually make money by uncovering these tax loopholes, and in the process sent them into the arms of the big companies who will now use them to ….. expose more loopholes for them
fckn genius!
And the poorest people are being asked to take up the slack.
That’s a piece of advice I personally will leave to the Cardigan Club.
yep, all I know is they are avoiding paying their full share of tax by using legal [but unethical] means such as the use of subsidiaries in tax havens. It is the tax law that needs reform when a profitable company is paying less tax on gross income than one of their employees.
Meanwhile, the libs are winding back all the loopholes Labor closed. Gives Shorten an opening to attck Positively
There are two particularly extraordinary things happening in Parliament this week that give Australians a telling insight into the Abbott Government.
In the House of Representatives, the Abbott Government is trying to explain why it’s reopened loopholes to allow multinational companies to avoid paying tax.
In the Senate, the very same Government is trying to ram through legislation that will make every Australian pay a GP tax whenever they visit the doctor, or extra tax whenever they fill up their car.
It seems as though under Tony Abbott, taxes are only certain in life if you’re not a multinational company, with the ability to offshore profits.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/corporate-tax-avoidance-costs-australian-business-20140930-10o8of.html
“Meanwhile, the libs are winding back all the loopholes Labor closed. Gives Shorten an opening to attck Positively”
According to a post i found on Catallaxy, Labor never got around to legislating what i think you are talking about.
““Why has the PM walked away from closing $1.1 billion of tax loopholes for multinational corporations?” Shorten demanded in the first question to Tony Abbott of the week.
Abbott almost skipped to the podium. “Curiously, Madam Speaker, the former government last year announced a crackdown on large foreign multinationals accessing, R&D tax concessions,” he said.
“They didn’t actually get around to legislating it. We are now getting around to legislating it.
“We are doing the work they said they’d do and didn’t.” This was the moment some Labor types might have privately smacked their own foreheads while exclaiming“
According to a post i found on Catallaxy, Labor never got around to legislating what i think you are talking about.
Probably because you don’t know what I am talking about, neither do the catallaxy mob. tabot would have, but chose to focus on something else. bronnie of course doesn’t care.
Try reading the link I put up, instead of relying on morons like at the other site.
Of course, perhaps you DO know what I am talking about, and choose to be as misleading as tabot was?
I do Tom and I think his standard knee jerk response is utter hilarity 🙄
I think his standard knee jerk response is utter hilarity
It would be, except, from catalaxxy article nil mentioned (but was too scaredy to link to), they have a link to afr(?) which is running with the version that labor did nothing (from the looks, it’s paywalled, and not worth my effort)
It’s just more of the same old same old, but, the same old same old is how we got this fucking ridiculous mob in the first place.
It is basically a lie.
Mind you, speaking of stuffing up in QT
it really is bittersweet, but we will be enthralled by it!
Careful What You Wish For Clive:
https://newmatilda.com/2014/10/01/careful-what-you-wish-clive
And the kouk knows that hockey is still on his austerity obsession, despite publc rejection of it
I put his post in the wrong thread before
https://theguttertrash.com/2014/07/30/exclusive-report-we-are-all-going-to-die/#comment-76614
Let me draw the link for you Tom…
An unsurprising link there Ricky 😉
This made me laugh though
the magnificent Bronwyn Bishop 😯 😆
This sinclair fella really needs to get out a bit more methinks 😉
“Did Hockey in #qt really say annual retail sales growth was the biggest in 12 years?
Can’t tell from the graph, it only runs to 2012. So what is he trying to prove with –
* the comment
* the inadequate graph
??
click the link yomm, and it will set you free 😉
hmmm maybe
Interesting isn’t it.
After being elected because they (with much help from the media) convinced the nation that Labor had created a “budget emergency”, the libs then refused to implement a mini budget to tackle this alleged “budget emergency”. But, now, after introducing their first bludgit, there is now a need for a mini budget.
It is getting to the point where we almost ARE in a “budget emergency”
The report in the Australian Financial Review today confirms that the Abbott government’s fiscal strategy is in tatters.
Elected on a platform to ‘fix the budget’ and tackle the ‘budget crisis and emergency’, the Abbott government is now planning a mini-budget in December to deal with the fact that its policies have resulted in a budget deficit blow out that at this stage, looks to be about as significant as some of the misses of the previous government.
http://thekouk.com/blog/abbott-and-hockey-dodgy-brothers-budget-repairs.html#.VCxsGvmSySo
This, taken from the afr article, is interesting.
For the record, these are the budget numbers inherited by the Abbott government. They are the budget balance (surplus / deficit) numbers calculated in the PEFO in August 2013.
2014-15 -$24.0 billion
2015-16 -$4.7 billion
2016-17 +$4.0 billion
A quick back of the envelope calculation which takes account of the policy flip flops and revised economic parameters, and without seeing any policy changes that may be announced in the next two months, suggests MYEFO will produce budget deficit numbers as follows:
2014-15 -$34 billion
2015-16 -$25 billion
2016-17 -$15 billion
Not even a “War on Burqua’s” can save this.
Budget Terrorists?
Anyone prepared to say “I told you so” 😦
And the saddest part, it appears to be working for them 😦 😦
I’m not sure who ‘told us so’ but I do recall some repeating Swan’s assurance that a surplus would be delivered.
I’m not sure who ‘told us so’
FYI yomm, the ‘told us so’ was in relation to “project creep” of our “War on Burqua’s”
#justsayin’
So according to Kouk all of a sudden we are suppose to believe projected figures.
As i have said before Stephen Koukoulas is easily the most dishonest person i have read. The man is pure evil. He is not stupid but is a willful liar who seems to enjoy telling lies and deceiving people.
So according to Kouk all of a sudden we are suppose to believe projected figures.
A couple of point(ers) nil
First, the figures aren’t the Kouks, they’re from the afr
Secondly, If you believe them or not, what they highlight is the sharp rise from the PEFO in August 2013. (2014-15 -$24.0 billion) to what the MYEFO will (most probably) produce if nothing is done to rectify the budget (2014-15 -$34 billion)
And worst.
In these three years, that would represent a fiscal blow out of around $50 billion compared with the PEFO numbers.
This is not the Kouk saying this, it is the AFR
Take it up with them.
Just wondering, does anyone else have an issue going here
http://www.aph.gov.au/
I tried yesterday to look for the Hansard, but couldn’t connect, and still cannot today.
Wondering if it is just me?
We have been through this before. Any projections with the ALP in power are not to be trusted since the ALP and their supporters are corrupt and immoral people.
http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/speech/html/speech.htm
“The four years of surpluses I announce tonight are a powerful endorsement of the strength of our economy, resilience of our people, and success of our policies.”
Wayne “you can trust me” SWAN
8 MAY 2012
We have been through this before. Any projections with the ALP in power are not to be trusted
Can I highlight something for you dil (and probably yomm from his earlier comment)
This is not the Kouk saying this, it is the AFR
Take it up with them.
“Wondering if it is just me?”
The web site works for me, so it looks like you’ve been blacklisted!
You can expect a knock on the door any minute now…
“PUT HIM IN THE FREEDOM VAN!”
“Wondering if it is just me?”
Its just you. Seems OK to me.
You probably hangout at the Socialist Alliance website too much and ASIO have blocked you.
Why dont you spend the $5000 and get connected to your beloved NBN………..LOL
Watch out TomR………………..I think you might be about to be made to “disappear”
It seems they’ve already taken him away. 😯
Greetings, from Separation Creek!
Shockingly tewwow free…
Move Along, Move Along. There is nothing to see here….
Shockingly tewwow free…
Obviously you haven’t been there long enough to make an impact pt 😉
“Greetings, from Separation Creek!”
Look out, there’s been a breach of our western border!
btw, cheers for the confirmation on the website I couldn’t access reb and wally.
Why, I don’t know, but, suffice to say, it’s most prob something I’ve done on my machine.
“Can I highlight something for you dil (and probably yomm from his earlier comment)
This is not the Kouk saying this, it is the AFR”
The stuff you posted was from the KOUK. Do you read your own posts?? It was not taken from the AFR article it was Kouks comments on the AFR article.
Kouk quotes govt numbers which have been wrong for the last 6 years.
Separation Creek – very pleasant!
A burger at ‘Bottle of Milk’ in Lorne would be a hearty lunch!
Beyond Lorne is Cathedral Rock, then Spout Creek – maybe my favourite surfing spots.
Have fun!
”””””””’Dividends are after tax distributions not pre-tax you knucklehead and I’ve already explainmed in the “”Eyes Glazing””””””””’
blubbering knuckheads should pay attention, even if Tinfoil`osy does not
this post is about, lawfully bludging corporations using havens in an era of `budget-emergency`
.
“”Shouldn`t shareholder `capital-injections` come from post-tax profit “”
Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr……..it already does by not being distributed as after tax Dividends. In fact the mining sector has quite a low dividend yield being they plough so much of their after tax profits into further investment.
Go and learn something about tax before commenting on such a complex area
#take note Tinfoil`osy
”’Trust Distributions a generally taxed at the marginal tax rate of the unit holder””
in his `personal` tax-return, not at the trust level, thanks for your help blubbers
#what is the point of a trust in a secret/tax haven then.?
1. FACT Hardie is off-shore in a haven,
therefore 2. Hardie does not pay Aust biz Tax
3. yield / ratio / franked / unfranked / ebit / is not relevant to my point above
____________
pdf page 241
Click to access 42gqzvh6rsk3zt.pdf
shows that 91.04% of Hardie is owned by their 20 largest shareholders, 19 of them non-people and Mr Lou Griers, whom may pay Aust Tax, in his `personal` ato return.
Are you certain Tinfoil`osy, that if we had the full shareholder list, that 91% of most likely lawfully non-taxpayers would not end-up `around` 98%, and `about` 2% would be individuals, possibly being Aust and paying some tax to the ato.? #teabags
We usually stay in/around Lorne or Apollo Bay. It’s very hard to mistake this part of the world for Victoria.
Separation Creek is very quiet & the view from where we are staying is magfuckingnificent.
I’ll be checking out those couple of spots with interest, YomM. Cheers.
South Australia’s South Eastern border is extremely porous, as evidenced by the epidemic of vicscum which oozes through & .infects coastal towns in my area of operations on long weekends.
Haha…
“#take note Tinfoil`osy”
I did. I took note of your stupidity. 😯
It was not taken from the AFR article it was Kouks comments on the AFR article.
Yep, my bad. It was the formatting that got me, I thought the last part was quoted from the article.
Yes, it’s a great part of the coast. I spend most of summer reading a book or newspapers on the balcony of the surf club.
“I did. I took note of your stupidity”
ROFLMA
By the way Teabagz……….capital expenditure can also come from raising debt (Ooooops……..did someone whisper Thin Capitalisation) or new equity issued to shareholders.
thanks for that blubbers but l don`t think l`ll need to whack Tinfoil`osy with that, he`ll be quiet for some time now 🙂
“Are you certain Tinfoil`osy, that if we had the full shareholder list, that 91% of most likely lawfully non-taxpayers would not end-up `around` 98%, and `about` 2% would be individuals, possibly being Aust and paying some tax to the ato.? ”
What does that even mean, in your world?
ZOMFG! Cathedral Rock is unpatrolled !!!
FearSQUIIIIIIIIIRT !
True!! Those non surfers really have no idea that we’re such devil may care risk takers. Unpatrolled water and there are dangerous sea creatures out there!
Hahaha!
That’s about the size of it, YomM!
I know lots of invertebrates who are too timid to even swim in the ocean, let alone tread where we paddle.
toiletboss wins, flawless victory…
Of passing interest, Jeebus is a myth.
‘”Jesus of Nazareth” was nothing more than urban (or desert) legend, likely an agglomeration of several evangelic and deluded rabbis who might have existed.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2776194/Jesus-never-existed-Writer-finds-no-mention-Christ-126-historical-texts-says-mythical-character.html#ixzz3EyPcL1oH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
But, it’s The Word of Fable!
Indivisible, literal…& not to be cynically scrutinised.
fubar (test) say somethin
Something…
There is a track between Sep. Ck. & Wye River, called Paddy’s Path, which the local panic merchants (ie. Council etc) have deemed too treacherous to navigate! Fearsquirt!!!
Needless to say, we ducked under the caution tape & not a wetting was to be had.
What the fuck is up with the world? Honestly. The cotton wool approach causes far more problems than it solves…and if a handful of toostupidtosurvive expire along the way, well that’s just natural selection at work.
The cotton wool approach causes far more problems than it solves…and if a handful of toostupidtosurvive expire along the way, well that’s just natural selection at work
….except sharks…
Including sharks, tewwowists, dubious walking trails, foreign threats & privacy invasions…
Natural selection means that because we’re smarter than sharks we have the means to kill them!!
Go humans!
Haha, touche (but not really)…
Landing On The Mountains Of Meggido…
Hmmm. Nanny Statism vs. Darwinism.
We creationist religious rightwing nutjobs believe in neither of those. I blame the Muslin POTUS. So it’s a lose-lose for me.
Better to stay inside with the curtains drawn.
Roped-off walking trails! *shudder*
Deliberately miss the point & the pisstaking much?
I didn’t think so…
Caution tape is very easy to ignore…most especially after you speak to a few locals who have the inside scoop on the legitimacy (or not) of the regulators.
“pisstaking much?”
Never!
Did the locals look at you funny when you asked about the “charnces” of being consumed by the track?
I had a crashing revelation on the deck at the Wye hotel when the I asked the beertapslave for a schooner…and it had NFI what I was asking for (but, to be fair, it kinda behaved as if it understood that I was politely asking it for alcohol(?).
I didn’t get a chance to hear it actually say “c-ass-tle”.
***What * does * that even mean***
Hardie pdf page * 241 shows that 91.04% of Hardie is owned by their 20 largest shareholders, 19 of them non-people and Mr Lou Griers, whom may pay Aust Tax, in his `personal` ato return.
R U certain Tinfoil`osy,
if we had the full shareholder list,(not just major 20)
that the 91.04% (of most likely lawfull, paper-entity, non-taxpayers)
would not climb-to/end-up being `around` 98%,
and `about` 2% would be individuals,
possibly being Australians and paying some tax to the ato.?
+Tinfoil`osy””’pays unfranked dividends to Australian residents,who are then fully taxed”””
+as l said, sweet fcuk-all of it comes thru the Aust residents `personal` ato return, 91.04% confirmed to go thru paper-entities with havens(see-pdf)
Unfortunately, ‘schooner’ and ‘pint’ are now common in the Victorian beer-drinkers’ vernacular. He must have been a native Taswegian, or some such.
Do they hold a darnce down there?
as l said,
”What percentage of those profits get paid as dividends to the share/stock-holders Tinfoil`osy.? 2%.? Would that leave 98% not-taxed.?”
in short l said a 98% vs 2% of what`s taxed,
pdf top-20 says (91.04%)91% vs 9%,
by the time all the minor holders are added, it doesn`t substantially change the thrust of my estimation 93%vs7%, 97%vs3% etc
Hey Bagz, you need to stop embarrassing yourself. Check your own link to the James Hardie annual report (page 224). Just under 40% of their issued capital is distributed in Australia. Australian stockholders that receive Hardie’s (unfranked) dividends will be including those in their taxable income.
So what the fuck is your actual point?
They lead a sheltered life at Wye River
“thanks for that blubbers but l don`t think l`ll need to whack Tinfoil`osy with that, he`ll be quiet for some time now ”
GUFFAW!
”””stop embarrassing yourself”””
guess who just did that tinfoil`osy,
you clearly didn`t pay any attention to the 7-largest stockholders, did you.? #paper-entity`s
“you clearly didn`t pay any attention to the 7-largest stockholders, did you.? #paper-entity`s”
Again with the stupidity. Banks, super-funds, and others, domiciled in Australia, own 40% of James Hardie’s stock.
SHOULD THEY RECEIVE DIVIDENDS, FRANKED OR UNFRANKED. THEY NEED TO DECLARE THEM AS INCOME ON THEIR TAX RETURNS.
Teabagz is a reliable analyst of several disciplines-
➢ Grammar
➢ What represents “teabagz” behaviour
➢ “”””””””” and “””””””””
➢ #######
😆
oh dear tinfoil`osy, you don`t think the `geography` table could be wrong or out-dated,
the largest shareholder, hsbc custody nominees (australia) limited has 31.88%
2nd, jp morgan nominees australia limited has 22.27%
ie total 54% already over your 40%
Heads-up Ricky
”””””””’Lidl to set up first Australian stores in 2015
The success of German supermarket chain Aldi is encouraging other international competitors to come to our shores, with German supermarket, Lidl, set to open their first Australian stores in 2015.
Lidl are currently sourcing a Melbourne location for their Australian expansion next year, according to ChannelNews.
http://www.freshplaza.com/article/124127/Lidl-to-set-up-first-Australian-stores-in-2015
”””””””””””””””
#it breaks my heart that poor coles and poor woolies are going to get another head-kicking #Go-LidL 🙂
”””Teabagz is a reliable analyst of several disciplines”””
Thanks yomm, l appreciate your support while l deal with tinfoil`osy 🙂
“oh dear tinfoil`osy, you don`t think the `geography` table could be wrong or out-dated, the largest shareholder, hsbc custody nominees (australia) limited has 31.88%
2nd, jp morgan nominees australia limited has 22.27%
ie total 54% already over your 40%”
Erm, no.
Evidently, contra ToM, you’re incompetent at mathematics, arithmetic, comprehension, english expression, and, even – your favourite – incoherent ranting, allow me to assist.
That table refers to percentages of the 20 largest CUFS holdings, not to holdings of total issued capital.
In any case, how, exactly, do those numbers relate to your imaginary “2%”?
Here’s a hint: When you reach the bottom, STOP DIGGING!
””’CDIs CUFS and DIs
A CHESS Depository Interest (CDI) is a financial product quoted on the Australian Securities Exchange which confers a beneficial interest in the foreign financial product to which it relates. CDIs are a type of depository receipt. There are two types of CDIs, CHESS Units of Foreign Securities (CUFS); and Depository Interests (DIs).
http://www.asx.com.au/glossary/items/cdis_cufs_dis.htm
””””””””””””””
so tinfoil`osy, the part that interests you is
””CHESS Units of Foreign Securities (CUFS)””
l take it.?
now Tinfoil`osy, when you abuse others about
”””’arithmetic, comprehension, english expression,”””
it may be to your benefit to have `actually` read and understood it ya`self,
””””’SECTION 4
(of hardie #pdf)
SHARE/CHESS UNITS OF FOREIGN SECURITIES INFORMATION
James Hardie Industries plc voting rights:
As of 31 May 2013, James Hardie Industries plc had on issue 441,654,684 CUFS issued over 441,654,684 ordinary shares held by CHESS Depositary Nominees Pty Ltd (“CDN”) on behalf of 10,479 CUFS holders. Each ordinary share carries the right to one vote. CUFS holders can direct CDN how to vote the ordinary shares on a one vote per CUFS basis.””””””””””’
#cufs gets vote, just like ord fp share.? really.?
#why do you think that is Tinfoil`osy.?
”””Teabagz is a reliable analyst of several disciplines””’
(yomm did try to warn you Tinfoil`osy) 🙂
oooh, that`s why Tinfoil`osy, (pdf)
””””As of 31 May 2013, all ##issued and ##outstanding ordinary shares”’were listed on the ASX in the form of CUFS.””’
””’CUFS represent beneficial ownership of our shares. CHESS Depository Nominees Pty Ltd is the registered owner of the shares represented by CUFS.””’
#but wait Tinfoil`osy, theres more!
””””’Each of our ##CUFS represents one ##share of our common stock.”””’
(#so tinfoil`osy, at hardie, cufs IS an ord fp share)
_______________
which seem to make this
”””””That table refers to percentages of the 20 largest CUFS holdings, not to holdings of total issued capital.”””””””
wrong
“(yomm did try to warn you Tinfoil`osy)”
Guffaw. Still waiting for your explanation of how only 2% of Hardie shareholders pay tax in Australia, when 40% of its issued capital is held here. Should be worth the wait.
””’Hardie shareholders””’
nows cufs owners, that may or may not be paper-entity`s with their own haven arrangements, that may or may not
””pay tax in Australia, when 40% of its issued capital is held here.””’
is the best you can do Tinfoil`osy.? Round and round, chase your tail.?
where is my half-wit.?
l hope you don`t need to read annual reports for ya`job Tinfoil`osy.
Hardie pdf pg 222 ie SECTION 4
Total cufs/(ie-fp-ord-shares) 441,654,684
Total (number of) cufs/(ie share) holders 10,479
____________________
now pay attention Tinfoil`osy, blubbers won`t be coming to save you
_____________________
4,898 `holders`(cufs/share) have holdings less than 1000 `cufs`/shares
4,280 `holders` have 1001 to 5000 `cufs`/shares
__
making about 9000 `holders`(9178) out of the 10,479 `holders` own sweet fcuk-all of Hardie, being about 2.8% of `cufs`/stock
Now Tinfoil`osy, back to your 40% from the `geography` table,
87% of Hardie`holders` are `small` holders(9178), so yes 40% of Hardie `holders` are in Aust, so even in an ATO wet-dream scenerio, where all Aust `holders` are `small` and paying thru an `individual` ato return, my `guesstimate` of 2% is not far off the 2.8% from the Hardie pdf. #teabags
”””””””””explanation of how only 2% of Hardie shareholders pay tax in Australia, when 40% of its issued capital is held here””””””””
#that`s wrong Tinfoil`osy,
l said,
only 2% of Hardie ””dividend”” probably ends-up fully taxED in Australia, (as so much of Hardie[98%`guesstimate,91.04%`in_pdf`] seems to be owned by lawfully tax-bludging paper-entities)
As Tinfoil`osy has vacated the field, l will explain what the answer really is,
”””””””””””Hardie shareholders pay tax in Australia, when 40% of its issued capital is held here.”””””””””
Tinfoil`osy hung his hat and credibility on the quote above. What is omitted by Tinfoil`osy is the Hardie pdf does not state the `type` of cufs/share `holder`.
The `type` of `holder` could be either,
1. a `real` flesh and blood person, OR,
2. a paper-entity, (trust,company,hedge-fund) ie not a real person, used to lawfully tax-bludge in havens
(while Tinfoil`osy tried to `muddy` the waters with the 40% and no explanation)
Lets look at that `40%`, in section 4 of the hardie pdf, we find that witchbank and nab are beneficial owners of `about` 14% of the australian `issued` shares, so 26% is unexplained ie.40-14=26
still in section-4 of pdf, witchbank and nab are not listed in the top-20 `holders` table, therefore they are owners via the top-20(most likely one of the top-5 paper entitiy`s)
it would be highly likely that the lions-share of the other 26% is hidden away also within paper-entities, within paper-entities, within paper-entities, within paper-entities, just as it is not `clear` where nab and witchbank are hidden away. #teabags
Stick to your finger painting Tinfoil`osy. 🙂
”””””In fact, ToSY agrees with Churchill that “democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time”.””””
#so you `pretend` that something else should be tried Tinfoil`osy.
#and come up with,
””””’He has even offered an alternative, where government is smaller and as many decisions as possible are left to the individual.””””’
#merely regurgitating teabag theory, a proven failed theory, but fail to state exactly what should be included in Government Tinfoil`osy, let me guess Tinfoil`osy, you believe in police/courts/law/jail and war-toys, the standard teabag crap.
Got any ideas of your very own.?
Time for the ATO to get some modern technology.