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Support for Abbott Govt slumps in latest Newspoll!

October 21, 2014

B13E1338FD1133568065087672320_2.5.1.10348390839937475421.mp4

From the files of “things you won’t read at News Limited today, “The Gutter Trash presents – Election Poll Armageddon for the Abbott Govt” (A tiny diversion into the realm of facts Production).

According to the latest Newspoll, support for the Coalition has slumped to its lowest level in three months.

Labor has increased its lead over the Coalition to 53% to 47% after preferences.

Labor’s primary vote remained steady at 34% while support for the Greens rose three points to 14% and support for independents and other parties was unchanged at 14%.

These figures translate to a two-party-preferred result of 53% for Labor (up two points since last month) and 47% for the Coalition (down two points).

Since the previous poll, the Abbott government has formally committed to military air strikes in Iraq (as part of its “humanitarian efforts”), pushed ahead with an expansion of security agency powers, issued “shirt-front” threats against Russian president Vladimir Putin, and rejected Labor’s pleas to send health teams to west Africa to help contain the spread of the Ebola virus.

The telephone poll of 1161 voters between Friday and Sunday shows the prime minister, Tony Abbott, and the opposition leader, Bill Shorten, each recorded a three-point decline in their satisfaction ratings.

About 38% of respondents said they were satisfied with Abbott’s performance while 53% expressed dissatisfaction, equating to a net approval score of minus 15 points.

Satisfaction with Shorten’s performance was 35% and dissatisfaction was 46%, or a net score of minus 11 points.

Asked to nominate their preferred prime minister, 39% opted for Abbott and 38% for Shorten.

In a one-off extra question, Newspoll asked voters whether they were in favour of Abbott’s intention to “confront” the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, over the shooting down of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in July. About 63% expressed support while 27% were against a confrontation.

 

 

 

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400 Comments leave one →
  1. Tom R permalink
    October 21, 2014 2:31 pm

    From the files of “things you won’t read at News Limited today

    Now you’re just making things up reb. the oo had it splashed across their main page earlier. Mind you, they did focus on one little section 😉

    Tony Abbott wins backing for Vladimir Putin face-off: Newspoll

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/tony-abbott-wins-backing-for-vladimir-putin-faceoff-newspoll/story-fn59niix-1227096680745

    Mind you, it appears that most people are in favor of yabot actually facing off against putin (as opposed to yapping at him from afar). So far, he hasn’t shown any (real) sign that he will. So it’s more of a wish than a vote of confidence 😉

  2. October 21, 2014 3:37 pm

    “Now you’re just making things up reb.”

    Well there’s always a first time for everything.

  3. Tom R permalink
    October 21, 2014 5:44 pm

    Well there’s always a first time for everything.

    You mean ltdnews actually conveying bad polls for the libs accurately 😯

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  4. Tom R permalink
    October 21, 2014 5:48 pm

    In relation to ao’s link the other night, spurrs lawyers up when he finds he cannot explain away his appalling behavior.

    Lawyers for poetry professor Barry Spurr have taken an online journal to court in an attempt to force it to take down a succession of his emails which exposed his sexist and racist rants to colleagues and friends.

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/professor-barry-spurr-takes-online-journal-to-court-over-publication-of-emails-20141021-119bj6.html

    Probably in relation to this

    THE TRANSCRIPTS: The Partial Works Of Professor Barry Spurr. Poet, Racist, Misogynist

    https://newmatilda.com/2014/10/19/transcripts-partial-works-professor-barry-spurr-poet-racist-misogynist

  5. October 21, 2014 5:56 pm

    Tony Abbott has duly earned his mantle as a giant pustular hemorrhoid on the corn hole of Australia.

    He is without doubt, the most unworthy and contemptuous lying imbecilic religious neoconning Tory nutter ever to Walter Mitty himself into office…

    The electorate despises the minister for woman’s affairs and he has earned their contempt by his aphasic actions of hubris sycophant fucktardery.

  6. Tom R permalink
    October 21, 2014 6:24 pm

    Tony Abbott has duly earned his mantle as a giant pustular hemorrhoid on the corn hole of Australia.

    He is without doubt, the most unworthy and contemptuous lying imbecilic religious neoconning Tory nutter ever to Walter Mitty himself into office…

    The electorate despises the minister for woman’s affairs and he has earned their contempt by his aphasic actions of hubris sycophant fucktardery.

    ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ 🐻 ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐

  7. October 21, 2014 6:33 pm

    So, “shirtfront” has become “confront”. I believe that’s referred to as ‘softening’…

  8. October 21, 2014 6:36 pm

    Just calling it as I see it Tom…
    I thought it was just me in a state of induced paranoid delusion. Has Australia gone mad? I am about as far from a conspiracy theorist as could be conceivably imaginable however, I really do feel that the resident nutter has Walter Mity’ed himself into the top job.

    Surely this neo con teabag fad crippling Australia must go the way of dingbats, and yo yo’s? I mean it would be humorous if it wasn’t so gravely dangerous. This bloke has even hijacked the language “I’m a center right conservative” !!! He’s a Santamaria sycophant religious radical with a dodgy coat of paint and a few slogans. Abbott is a chocolate covered nutty turd at best, the bitter political equivalent of Ebola with the hide of an elephant.

    Anything is possible and everything is probable. Pugalist punch drunk policy on the fly with a metaphorical finger in the wind of manufactured faux outrage. Insanely vindictive with no plan other than his standard formula of divisive coercion.

    Do people have political amnesia? What did they expect cognac from vinegar? He would mellow to an acquired taste with age? Did the zombie nation reading the murdochracy propaganda in the terrograph think this vacuous intellectual dwarf would leap to the high bar after limbo snaking under it all his life? Wasn’t ‘Battle lines’ and its inconsistencies, a health warning of impeding danger?

    Abbott may well go down in history as the most despised PM in history, which is no mean feat in such a short time as captain of social engineering wrecking crew. He makes Howard look like Bob Brown and Billy Mc Mahon look positively loveable. The hangover inflicted from this dark period in Australia’s political history will be forever known as “Abbott Syndrome”

    Even with the benefit of understanding Abbotts political moralising pretense and unstable radicalism steeped in compulsive lying, nobody could have predicted this.

    You just cant write this script. Its the improvised incompetence that only unravels when the jig is up. The shock and disappointment when we get to the destination with a profound realisation that the host is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

    Maybe a few rounds with Putin in the ring would put us all out of our misery and knock some gravitas humility into screaming Lord Abbott. I doubt it, he actually believes his own spin and now lives in the construct of the bullshit artist formally known as.

  9. Tom R permalink
    October 21, 2014 7:03 pm

    Just calling it as I see it Tom…

    And calling it well 🙂

    I believe that’s referred to as ‘softening’…

    There are other words ….. 😉

  10. October 22, 2014 7:57 am

    Ohhhh Joy!!

  11. Tom R permalink
    October 22, 2014 9:03 am

    A young university student at the centre of the Whitehouse Institute secret scholarship story is facing up to two years jail. Max Chalmers reports.

    https://newmatilda.com/2014/10/21/freya-newman-be-sentenced-week-over-secret-abbott-scholarship

    Meanwhile, the uni in question continues to receive preferential treatment from this gubmint, and our msm keep their eyes focused anywhere but where the shit piles.

  12. Walrus permalink
    October 22, 2014 9:52 am

    “”A young university student at the centre of the Whitehouse Institute secret scholarship story is facing up to two years jail. Max Chalmers reports.””

    A criminal conviction with a suspended sentence should be enough to fuick up her life enough to serve as a deterrent to others.

    And if you believe the latest poll you also have to believe that support for the Greens went up by almost 30%.

  13. Tom R permalink
    October 22, 2014 11:19 am

    to serve as a deterrent to others.

    For exposing what looks to be like corruption in political process?

    And you are in favour of that then? Entities “buying” preferential treatment from politicians willing to sell it?

  14. Walrus permalink
    October 22, 2014 12:02 pm

    “………………what looks to be like corruption…….. ”

    Funny how you never had that opinion about Craig Thomson

    By the way she was charged and pled guilty to the charge. You obviously didn’t read that bit

  15. Tom R permalink
    October 22, 2014 1:16 pm

    You obviously didn’t read that bit

    Yes, I read it, did you read the bit about if it had been a public institution, she would not have been charged? Time to fix the laws perhaps?

    So, are you happy with politicians selling favours then I take it?

    (btw, thommo was in relation to before he was a pollie, a little different)

  16. Walrus permalink
    October 22, 2014 1:24 pm

    “”So, are you happy with politicians selling favours then I take it?””

    Why…………………….who did that with the proof thanks very much

  17. Tom R permalink
    October 22, 2014 1:54 pm

    who did that with the proof thanks very much

    yabots daughter got a scholarship that had never been offered to anyone ever before (except for the owners offspring) without any oversight from anyone but the owner of the uni.

    That uni is now not only able to receive government funds, but, unlike other uni’s, is not required to supply scholarships for pupils with those funds.

    Those are facts, draw your line and see what you get.

  18. October 22, 2014 2:03 pm

    I’m bringing my tray of snacks over here.

    Nom nom nom…

  19. Tom R permalink
    October 22, 2014 2:06 pm

    That looks like your bringing your nuts over here reb.

    queue nil and egg 🙂

  20. October 22, 2014 4:53 pm

    A slide in the polls.

    Expect more tewwa related shit incoming.

  21. peter permalink
    October 22, 2014 11:39 pm

    NOT SURPRISED, THIS SO CALLED GOVERNMENT ARE A DISGRACE TO THIS NATION ,LIES,DECEITFUL,CORRUPT, WAKE UP PEOPLE THEY NEED TO BE OUSTED ASAP.

  22. October 23, 2014 7:17 am

    “Expect more tewwa related shit incoming.”

    PM Tony Abbott’s office says Federal Police patrols will be increased around parliament today.

    http://www.theage.com.au/world/canada-parliament-locked-down-after-gunman-opens-fire-in-ottawa-20141023-11a6s6.html

  23. eggboxtroll permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:23 am

    Nice caps, but they don’t sway me. Abbott is hoping to stay in power for at least a decade with the implementation of bread and circuses. Or more correctly, progress with the help of our major trading partners.

  24. October 23, 2014 7:31 am

    “”Abbott is hoping to stay in power for at least a decade ”

    Abbott can “hope” as much as he likes but meanwhile back in the real world his arse is going to be handed to him on a plate at the next election.

  25. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:52 am

    his arse is going to be handed to him on a plate at the next election.

    A nice thought reb (although not a pretty image), but I envisage a full twleve months of election lead up pantzwetting and lipstick application from our media cheersquad that will make the recent effort pale into insignificance beside it.

    If it works or not we will see, but the last parliament shows that the media have much sway over events and opinions.

  26. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 8:06 am

    Examples like this one

    Tony Abbott received no official briefing from his department or special envoy suggesting they were confident early acoustic noises detected in the search for the missing flight MH370 were from the flight’s black box.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/21/tony-abbott-not-advised-mh370-search-had-found-black-box-senators-told

    Imagine if Gillard were to have lied about something as emotional to some as this, all in order to big note herself on the world stage.

    Contrast the ignorance from our media over any of this and other monumental stuff ups with the way the media reacted to (list ANY Gillard statement, true or false) which the media ramped up and clung to regardless of its veracity or import.

    I can see in hte lead up to the election a reprisal of the Shorten rape allegations, and a compliant media sifting through yabots extended union witch hunt right through to the election, just as it is intended for. With nothing but allegations and missing all of the actual cases of rorting (daughters uni fees, travel rorts, even forgetting to declare a massive mortgage). All flying well below the radar, yet all just the tip of the iceberg of ignored fuck ups and lies from the libs

    http://sallymcmanus.net/abbotts-wreckage/

  27. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 9:01 am

    The gubmints ideological bent is slowly being exposed.

    The subject experts appointed to the Abbott government’s national curriculum review included several figures with close Coalition links who were chosen without any scrutiny from education officials.
    ……….
    Several of the 14 subject specialists chosen by Dr Donnelly and Professor Wiltshire had close links to the Coalition and conservative think tanks.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/questions-over-curriculum-experts-links-to-coalition-20141022-119×24.html

  28. October 23, 2014 9:18 am

    “I envisage a full twleve months of election lead up pantzwetting and lipstick application from our media cheersquad that will make the recent effort pale into insignificance beside it.”

    I hope you’re wrong but I fear you may be right…

    Hopefully people will have the smarts to see through the BS but history suggests they don’t.

    A recent poll shows that 70% of people can’t name who the State Opposition Leader is in Victoria, but ask how many people know the name of that guy who won The Batchelor and the results are overwhelming.

    It’s a sad state of affairs…

  29. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 9:30 am

    Hopefully people will have the smarts to see through the BS but history suggests they don’t.

    The best thing Labor can do imo in the lead up is to remind people of the reporting in the lead up to the last election, and the result we had from that.

    I know they were talking about their own paper or some such, but I have no confidence in them doing that successfully

  30. October 23, 2014 9:37 am

    The best thing Labor can do…

    Is dump Blib Shortern and install Albanese or Plibersek as leader…

    Blib is useless.

  31. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 9:51 am

    The ALP does literally throw some vile and disgusting candidates…………………..as usual

    Dancing on the grave of a media personality”s dead baby son………………….noice…………………………..

    And cue the usual ALP excuse ……….the Craig Thomson Defence…………………”someone else used my mobile”

    http://m.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/alp-hopeful-andrew-mcmicking-sorry-for-tweet-which-called-tv-host-paul-murrays-dead-son-a-grub/story-fnn8dlfs-1227098456193?nk=8f8847f8596c76e779bfb4f4e102c454

  32. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2014 9:53 am

    “Blib is useless.”

    True enough, but it is hard to unseat him before the election under the new system the ALP has adopted for choosing leaders. And his being useless is not really an impediment in a contest with Abbott.

    The Libs will lose and then whine about being hindered by the Senate. If that was the case then they should have forced a confrontation and brought on a DD election.

  33. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 9:53 am

    “…….or Plibersek as leader…””

    Not a chance……….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Coutts-Trotter

  34. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 9:54 am

    “”The Libs will lose and then whine about being hindered by the Senate””

    I don’t think so. The ALP cannot win with a PP of 34%

  35. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 9:55 am

    “PP” ………..I meant Primary Vote not 2PP

  36. October 23, 2014 9:55 am

  37. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 9:58 am

    I don’t think so. The ALP cannot win with a PP of 34%

    With a nod to your correction, I AGREE! 😦

  38. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 9:59 am

    The ALP does literally throw some vile and disgusting candidates

    That is pretty low, and blaming it on letting drunk wankers use your twitter account is adding stupid to it.

    What was it in response to though?

  39. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:00 am

    I think the ALP needs to forget the most prominent faces of the Rudd/Gillard years.

    Ed Housic with Tony Bourke would be more saleable

  40. October 23, 2014 10:00 am

    All they need to do is keep reminding people of the Coalition’s intent, by repeatedly highlighting its first punitive, ideological Budget (the original version of it…not some watered down shit which they may end up with after backflip and compromise).
    Worse than the ‘original’ version will befall voters if the Coalition is returned with a larger majority & no fulcrum for scrutiny in the Senate. They’ve shown their hand and people should be under no illusions about what they want to do.

    Distractionary tewwa-hype & selective RC’s definitely have an impact on voter attention too though.

  41. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:00 am

    btw wally, how’s your geometry going 😉

  42. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:03 am

    I think the ALP needs to forget the most prominent faces of the Rudd/Gillard years.

    They need to forget rudd, but the Gillard years will be looked back with with pride.

    NBN
    Gonski
    PPL
    NDIS
    (+ much more)

    Quite a list of progressive policies

    speaking of which, hows yabots nonppl progressing?

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbotts-favoured-paid-parental-leave-scheme-stalls-20141022-119scl.html

    (we (you know who) knew it would never eventuate)

  43. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:05 am

    “What was it in response to though?”

    Paul Murray has a show on Skynews 9pm each night. Richo, Ed Housic, plus a number of the Right like Janet A, and Ross Cameron regularly appear.

    He is of a Rightwing persuasion but not like a Bolt. His show on Tuesday night called for people to consider not just Whitlams achievements (suucesses) but also his failures.

    Basically don’t gloss over his weaknesses as that’s part of the Whitlam story.

    And don’t forget that out of 5 elections Whitlam only won 2.

    That was basically it. It was hardly a Bolt like attack

  44. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:07 am

    How will Sovereign Borders help with Ebola?

    Oh, that’s right, we can’t talk about it 😉

    Here’s a thought, why not send the help those on the front line are requesting?

  45. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:14 am

    “”Here’s a thought, why not send the help those on the front line are requesting?””

    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm……………………just like the Iraqi Government you mean

  46. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:19 am

    just like the Iraqi Government you mean

    ROFL

    If they are, then why aren’t they there?

    And if we are, why not for Ebola? Is it because guns aren’t involved?

  47. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:22 am

    “Here’s a thought, why not send the help those on the front line are requesting?”

    No, the government’s stance on this is quite sensible. Unless and until any Australian infected with the virus in the west of Africa can be guaranteed safe passage to an appropriate facility, they shouldn’t risk “sending” anyone.

  48. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:28 am

    “Canada raised its national terrorism alert level today, following an incident Monday in which a Canadian soldier was killed in a hit-and-run by a man suspected to have been a radicalized jihadist.”

    Distractionary tewwa-hype, no doubt.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/canada-shooting-soldier-suspect-dead-parliament-attack/story?id=26372013

  49. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:32 am

    “”………..Distractionary tewwa-hype, no doubt…………..””

    Yes………….fancy shooting dead a gun wielding tewwawist………………….a bit of a knee jerk reaction I would av thunk

  50. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:38 am

    Canadians are typical pantzwetters! Tewwawists gunning down people in parliament. What, me worry? Chances are they won’t shoot me so who cares?

    That stupid conservative Harper is only using this incident to distract voters. Islam is a religion of peace. The only real danger to society is Islamophobia.

    Go the jeer squad!

  51. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:48 am

    Unless and until any Australian infected with the virus in the west of Africa can be guaranteed safe passage to an appropriate facility

    This is a furphy.

    She said the UK and US were building hospitals specifically for health workers in west Africa and she was confident the government could find a solution, while acknowledging that “no humanitarian mission like this is without risk”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/19/ebola-labor-renews-calls-for-health-workers-to-be-sent-to-west-africa

  52. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:49 am

    “The only real danger to society is Islamophobia.”

    Correct. In fact, according to the publisher of New Matilda, “The fact is, as a nation, we’ve been far less willing to confront our racism, our sexism, our Islamophobia, and our homophobia in the places where it matters most, and does the most damage – our institutions and our halls of power.”

    Odd, considering that, at its core, Islam is sexist, homophobic, and, most likely, racist.

  53. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 10:57 am

    “She said the UK and US were building hospitals specifically for health workers in west Africa”

    Building. i.e. not built.

  54. October 23, 2014 11:02 am

    “Odd, considering that, at its core, Islam is sexist, homophobic, and, most likely, racist.”

    You mean, just like krisstyanity?

  55. October 23, 2014 11:05 am

    PM: ‘I do want to assure the Australian people that this Govt will do everything we humanly can to keep our country and its people safe.’

    That’s good to know. It would be a bit concerning if he was just going to be keeping the country safe without its people, or vice versa.

  56. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:05 am

    Yeah, just like that. So why do leftists love Islam?

  57. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:06 am

    ” It would be a bit concerning if he was just going to be keeping the country safe without its people, or vice versa.”

    Good point.

  58. October 23, 2014 11:07 am

    Oh look! A nutcase or two in the other hemisphere went postal for extreme religious reasons!

    Quick, let’s act like we are all under attack and no longer safe on our own streets here!
    Panic! Bring in as much draconian anti-freedom legislation as possible to protect fweedom!

    Go the fear squad.

    Inflated & conflated tewwa…a political goldmine.

  59. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:08 am

    “She said the UK and US were building hospitals specifically for health workers in west Africa”

    Yes…………….for their own health workers. No one elses ……..yet

  60. October 23, 2014 11:08 am

    So why do fear squad members falsely accuse ‘leftists’ of ‘loving’ Islam?

  61. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:09 am

    “Oh look! A nutcase or two in the other hemisphere went postal for extreme religious reasons!”

    Gee, that’s right, another hemisphere. Silly me. These nutjobs don’t exist south of the equator.

  62. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:13 am

    “So why do fear squad members falsely accuse ‘leftists’ of ‘loving’ Islam?”

    If not “love”, then they certainly seem unduly concerned about “islamophobia”. See the New Matilda/Chris Graham quote above, for example.

  63. October 23, 2014 11:13 am

    ” These nutjobs don’t exist south of the equator.”

    Absolutely! A handful of nutcases means we should all quake in terror & disproportionately react to an implied threat by moving incrementally closer to a police state!

    You are so right.

    Go Fear Squad. Save Us!

  64. October 23, 2014 11:14 am

    Because Chris Graham speaks for ‘leftists’ worldwide.

  65. October 23, 2014 11:15 am

    “Yeah, just like that. So why do leftists love Islam?”

    Oh look over there – a furry thing…

    Meanwhile back in Australia – the PM Tony Abbott is devout Krisstan as is Kevin Andrews, Scott Morriscum and a few other cunts in the government…

    How many of Abbott government ministers are Muslims……???

  66. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:17 am

    “A handful of nutcases means we should all quake in terror & disproportionately react to an implied threat by moving incrementally closer to a police state!”

    I, for one, certainly am not quaking in terror. At the same time, I’ve seen and heard enough to know something similar to the Canadian incident could happen here. Do you think security should be tightened up around our parliament, or not?

  67. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:17 am

    for their own health workers. No one elses ……..yet

    can I call bullshit

    The United States military is now building a treatment center for foreign aid workers in Monrovia, the Liberian capital; it is projected to be ready by early next month.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/22/world/ebola-outbreak-erodes-recent-advances-in-west-africa.html?_r=0

    In other words, there is nothing stopping us sending medical staff there.

  68. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:18 am

    “Because Chris Graham speaks for ‘leftists’ worldwide.”

    Do you? I thought you weren’t a leftist, anyway.

  69. October 23, 2014 11:18 am

    “A handful of nutcases means we should all quake in terror & disproportionately react to an implied threat by moving incrementally closer to a police state!”

    EXACTLY!

    Let’s spend half a billion dollars to pursue a handful of nutcases on the other side of the world for fear of what they “might” do back in Australia.

    Even though not one single Australian has been killed by a terrorist in Australia for the last twelve months…

    Meanwhile back in “”the real world””…

    “Domestic violence is the leading cause of death and injury in women under 45, with more than one woman murdered by her current or former partner every week.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-05/domestic-violence-reaches-epidemic-proportions/5426214

  70. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:19 am

    It is beyond me why other countries are able to make arrangements for their health workers, including now Japan, able to make arrangements for their health workers and the Australian Government is not able to do that.

    http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2014/s4110027.htm

    It is beyond me too.

  71. October 23, 2014 11:20 am

    I can smell a dumb generalisation when I sniff the tewwa breeze.

  72. October 23, 2014 11:20 am

    “I’ve seen and heard enough”

    Hint: Maybe you should stop watching commercial TV and stop listening to talkback radio?

    (Walrus has the same problem)…

  73. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:20 am

    “it is projected to be ready by early next month.”
    “In other words, there is nothing stopping us sending medical staff there.”

    Go back to my original comment, “unless and until”.

    That would be next month, if projections are accurate and there are no delays. Let’s wait and see, shall we.

  74. October 23, 2014 11:21 am

  75. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:23 am

    “Hint: Maybe you should stop watching commercial TV and stop listening to talkback radio?”

    Maybe I should go back to that. The ABC Gough-fest is making me ill.

  76. October 23, 2014 11:24 am

    Apparently all of the ridiculous carry on & focus on tewwa, up to and including the recent (and ongoing) introduction of draconian laws upon all citizens , has just been “security should be tightened up around our parliament”.

  77. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:28 am

    “Apparently all of the ridiculous carry on & focus on tewwa, up to and including the recent (and ongoing) introduction of draconian laws upon all citizens , has just been “security should be tightened up around our parliament”.

    The point is, if you do think tightening security around parliament is reasonable, then we’re only arguing about what anti-terror measures you like, and which ones you don’t. Far different from pretending Islamist nutjobs only exist in the northern hemisphere.

  78. October 23, 2014 11:32 am

    The ALP does literally throw some vile and disgusting candidates…………………..as usual

    Whats that Wally? speak up…

    GUFAW choke choke splutter…stuff is coming out of my eyes I’m laughing so hard…

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defeated-mp-sophie-mirabella-prepares-comeback/story-fn59niix-1226851926918

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/sophie-mirabella-comeback-could-be-blocked-by-threecornered-contest-in-indi-20141013-1156rt.html

  79. October 23, 2014 11:36 am

    “The ABC Gough-fest is making me ill.”

    Agreed. Although they do seem to spending a lot of their coverage devoted to the fact that he was sacked.

    Maybe that’s meant to be “balance.”

  80. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:40 am

    Maybe a thread – what we’ll say about Fraser when he dies.

  81. October 23, 2014 11:41 am

    ” Far different from pretending Islamist nutjobs only exist in the northern hemisphere.”

    I didn’t do that.

    My discontent has always been with disproportionate overstating of domestic threat & the cynical way that all governments/most politicians milk the atmosphere of tewwa.

    So, how many nutcases do you think we have in our midst? Hundreds? I think thousands would be a dramatic overestimation.

  82. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:42 am

    Let’s wait and see, shall we.

    Yea, unlike all the other nations who have already sent people, and been able to use countries like hte UK and Germany to send their workers to should they show symptoms

    It’s just all too hard for us, we’ll just wait.

    Meanwhile, where the guns our, our “boots” on the ground have been cooling for weeks after our initial “thrust”

    It’s fucking sickening.

  83. October 23, 2014 11:42 am

    How many million of us live here again?

  84. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:43 am

    Meanwhile, the libs just continue to blame everyone else for their “chaotic shambles” of a gubmint

    “I know there’s been mishaps in that policy where the decision didn’t go to the minister — like the army boots,’’ Mr MacFarlane told the National Press Club.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/government-admits-mishaps-in-awarding-tender-process-for-boots/story-fni6uo1m-1227099180254

  85. October 23, 2014 11:44 am

    “Maybe a thread – what we’ll say about Fraser when he dies.”

    Or Tony Abbott:

  86. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:49 am

    How many million of us live here again?

    Well, some are in melbourne, so a different term might need be applied 😉

  87. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:51 am

    “My discontent has always been with disproportionate overstating of domestic threat & the cynical way that all governments/most politicians milk the atmosphere of tewwa.”

    No doubt many Aussie tourists in Bali, or travellers on the Madrid and London undergrounds felt the same way.

    Before they were bombed. Proportionality is in the words of the polemicist.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

  88. October 23, 2014 11:52 am

    Yeah, so a few hundred nutcases warrant all of the fearmongering & squirting.

    You’re absolutely right.

    Check out all those domestic casualties.

  89. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:53 am

    “Check out all those domestic casualties.”

    So the measures are working, then.

  90. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:54 am

    “………… they do seem to spending a lot of their coverage devoted to the fact that he was sacked.””

    Yeah……………and strange is it not that there is zero coverage of the 1977 election that he lost

  91. October 23, 2014 11:54 am

    Proportionality is the consideration applied by an intelligent person weighing up pros & cons…and dismissing hyperbolic scare campaigns of dubious integrity under studious hype.

  92. October 23, 2014 11:57 am

    “So the measures are working, then.”

    Considering that the new abominations have only just been implemented by a side entrance, I’d strongly suggest that previous laws were sufficient; wouldn’t you?

    Or more likely, there have been no casualties here because the threat is overdramatised and is actually almost negligible.

  93. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:00 pm

    “Or more likely, there have been no casualties here because the threat is overdramatised and is actually almost negligible.”

    If you ignore all the people convicted of planning attacks, who were caught before they could carry them out.

  94. October 23, 2014 12:01 pm

    “Or more likely, there have been no casualties here because the threat is overdramatised and is actually almost negligible.”

    EXACTLY!

    And if on the off chance a deluded teenager decides to stab a cop or something, the blubbering govt would use that as an excuse to declare that even more draconian measures are required…

    Meanwhile, what is the govt doing to address domestic violence – you know the actual REAL cause of innocent people dying in Australia every week as opposed to some pantzwetting hypothetical…?

  95. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:02 pm

    “”…..there have been no casualties here because the threat is overdramatised and is actually almost negligible.”

    Oh…………so those 2 cops who were almost turned into sashimi should have given Numan Haider a hug ?

  96. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:03 pm

    I suppose some people will bury their heads in the sand, ignoring all advice from the security agencies and police forces, until we have actual domestic casualties. (I thought leftoids loved the precautionary principle.)

  97. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:04 pm

    If you ignore all the people convicted of planning attacks, who were caught before they could carry them out.

    Plastic Swords are deadly instruments apparently 😯

  98. October 23, 2014 12:05 pm

    Make no mistake these things is deadly…

  99. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:05 pm

    “”Meanwhile, what is the govt doing to address domestic violence ….””

    Well for one…………domestic violence is covered by the general provisions of the Crimes Act of each state.

    http://www.domesticviolence.nsw.gov.au/

  100. October 23, 2014 12:07 pm

    “so those 2 cops who were almost turned into sashimi should have given Numan Haider a hug ?

    And so how does our “”humanitarian effort” of military air strikes in Iraq help prevent that sort of thing?

  101. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:08 pm

    reb, spaminator alert, please.

  102. October 23, 2014 12:09 pm

    “Well for one…………domestic violence is covered by the general provisions of the Crimes Act of each state.”

    Yeah well the problem with that approach is that if you’re lying dead on the kitchen floor the “24 hour Domestic Violence Line” isn’t going to be much help… That is the problem..

  103. October 23, 2014 12:10 pm

    released Tony…

  104. October 23, 2014 12:13 pm

    “Terrorism in Australia: Militant Islamist incidents”

    Thanks for confirming that no one in Australia has been killed by a terrorist in recent years.

    So why are we even involved in Iraq?

  105. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:14 pm

    I thought leftoids loved the precautionary principle.

    When it is used in conjunction with evidence, yes 😉

  106. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:17 pm

    “And so how does our “”humanitarian effort” of military air strikes in Iraq help prevent that sort of thing?”

    It wont!

    You’re not going to defeat these morons by conventional warfare. It’s a sick ideology, and its adherents are spread throughout the world. Even the southern hemisphere! If you heard the Sydney kid on the Isis video the other day, they’re never going to rest until the black flag flies over the white house and the parliament. Not that that’s ever going to happen, but that’s the idiotic, primitive mindset that’s been brainwashed into these apes.

    The only thing you can do is take preventative measures, and root out the fuckwits before they hurt people.

  107. October 23, 2014 12:20 pm

    I suppose some people will bury their heads in the sand, ignoring all advice from the security agencies and police forces, until we have actual domestic casualties.

    All of which want more money and power… They are taking the lead from the experts like McDonald Douglas, Halliburton and GE…

    A..Find Stupid Politician
    B. Convince them this will be a Churchill moment
    C. Whip up a “terror treat” to “our” way of life wearing out the word “Freedom” and “democracy”
    D. Extort money and corn hole ream their economy for shit they don’t need used to kill people
    E. Honor the dead with valor as martyrs trumpeting that they died for you and me…..without acknowledging the fact that they principally died in vein for nothing more than the greed and stupidity that sent them there
    F. Castigate anyone who disagrees as UN this or that…A commy, a sympathizer, a leftist, a coward..or any other rhetorical terminology used to label those who are awake to this cycle of bullshit.

    Repeat process as often as possible because people are basically gullible and stupid

  108. October 23, 2014 12:21 pm

    “If you ignore all the people convicted of planning attacks, who were caught before they could carry them out.”

    Yeah, all <50(?) or so of them! They didn't actually get past planning, or no doubt in some cases just talking about doing something, but hey, They could have!!!
    When you put it like that, I’m not sure how I can sleep peacefully with such a magnitude of tewwa to contemplate!

    Just further evidence that the latest tranche of rubbish is unnecessary overreach/reaction.

  109. October 23, 2014 12:24 pm

    “Oh…………so those 2 cops who were almost turned into sashimi should have given Numan Haider a hug ?”

    Yes, that single nutcase was a dire threat to all of us .

    Please save me!

    The threat is blown out of all proportion Real!

  110. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:27 pm

    “They didn’t actually get past planning, or no doubt in some cases just talking about doing something, but hey, They could have!!!”

    Many of them were convicted, and are in jail. So the courts, judges, and juries must be in on the conspiracy, too?

  111. October 23, 2014 12:29 pm

    ” If you heard the Sydney kid on the Isis video the other day, they’re never going to rest until the black flag flies over the white house and the parliament. Not that that’s ever going to happen, but …”

    A big ‘but’.

    But, we may as well give full frontal publicity to their religious extremism & exhibit the panic & self curtailment which they yearn to see in us!

    Conservatives are so easy to frighten. Ironic that it’s other uber-conservatives frightening them…and then our own conservative masters are using it all to clamp down on the entire population based on the vibe they’ve given succour to.

  112. October 23, 2014 12:29 pm

    “root out the fuckwits before they hurt people.”

    Perhaps that principle should be applied to people who are “running the country” before it applies to others..

  113. October 23, 2014 12:31 pm

    Many of them were convicted, and are in jail. So the courts, judges, and juries must be in on the conspiracy, too?”

    Just further evidence that the latest tranche of rubbish is unnecessary overreach/reaction. Take two.

    “Many”…not so many really.

  114. October 23, 2014 12:40 pm

    Extremist oppressive foreign policy that “liberates” people (mostly of their resources and cheap labor) cage rattles such responses. There is no profit in diplomacy…no margin in peace and no windfall in measured compromise.

    As long as there is a “free market” there will be terrorists… The most heinous extremists inflicting shock and awe terror are running the market that supplies the guns , not blindly wielding it.

  115. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:45 pm

    ToSy you are completely missing the point.

    The fact that many arrests and convictions have been made and that neither of stabbed police died means that there is no threat, none at all. Just ignore the security assessments. What would they know? Listen instead to the jeer squad. Mock everyone who is vaguely concerned by this threat.

    The only appropriate reaction to stabbed cops is ridicule. And whatever you do, definitely do not refer to the one thing the terrorists have in common, and which they proudly state motivates them, their religious beliefs. Completely ignore that – what would they know? Trust the jeer squad and mock the people charged with protecting us.

    What we need is more sneering. We certainly don’t need a more sober parsing of the proposed new laws, debating which powers are worthwhile and which should be rejected. Oh no, anything but that – just stick your finger in your anus and squawk “Tewwawist”.

  116. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:51 pm

    The fact that many arrests and convictions have been

    Actually, a handful over a decade isn’t really “many”. The fact is domestic violence still is a far bigger problem, with far less resources comparatively being thrown at it.

    And the issue is, it doesn’t warrant the powers that ASIO now have, and it certainly doesn’t warrant the massive fear and smear campaign being launched. In fact, reports recently have shown that any suspects that were using social media to telegraph any intent has disappeared, so the “show of force” has just made the policing job harder (as is it’s wont)

  117. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:57 pm

    “Conservatives are so easy to frighten.”

    Concervatives worry about bomb-chucking islamofucks.

    Leftoids are terrified by the weather.

  118. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:58 pm

    Concervatives. A freshly minted word.

  119. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 12:59 pm

    Latest leftist meme: Let’s not address terrorism because domestic violence!

    Here’s a novel idea: why not address both.

  120. October 23, 2014 1:01 pm

    “Concervatives worry about bomb-chucking islamofucks.”

    You mean the ones numbering in their tens who are possibly here?!

    Sound the alarm!

  121. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 1:05 pm

    “You mean the ones numbering in their tens who are possibly here?!”

    Yeah, you’re right. Let’s not concern ourselves till one of these dark-age dickheads kills some people. Until then, why worry.

    Besides, the security agencies should performing the function they were established to perform. Catching Russian spies!

  122. October 23, 2014 1:07 pm

    “The fact that many arrests and convictions have been made”

    By ‘many’, I think you may actually mean ‘a few dozen’, at most.

    The fear squad tend to jump at shadows.

    Also, not much mention that our ‘amazing success’ in keeping domestic incidents at bay, as evidenced by the absolute dearth of them, probably strongly suggests that the measures we had in place were quite sufficient.

    Go Fear Squad. Fearing enough for all of us! Extra fear to go around if you need some. Harvesting International Fear to help the fear effort at home.

  123. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 1:08 pm

    *should be

  124. October 23, 2014 1:10 pm

    ” Let’s not concern ourselves till one of these dark-age dickheads kills some people. Until then, why worry.”

    Nutcases kill other people regularly, maybe we should all have implants so we can be monitored by our betters to ensure the necessary level of comfortable safety which you are trying to aspire to?

  125. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 1:12 pm

    “”Here’s a novel idea: why not address both.””

    Lets also address car accidents…………..the use of ICE…………………….outlaw morot bike gangs……………………..the sex slavery trade……………………etc………..etc……….etc………………………….everything but terrorism

    Oh………………look over there…………………….Aliens amongst us

  126. October 23, 2014 1:14 pm

    I’m pretty sure I can imagine the clamour & unleashing of bodily waste in a frenzy of ‘We Told You So’, when the inevitable does happen. One day, it’s likely that one of these nutcases, or a small group of them, will be successful. Hey, cringing before them seems to be the right response!

    But I still won’t act like we’re being invaded or roaming gangs of Islamofascists are outnumbering us in our own country. Because, well, that’s ludicrous.

  127. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 1:14 pm

    “Just further evidence that the latest tranche of rubbish is unnecessary overreach/reaction. Take two.”

    I’m quite happy to discuss the latest “overreaction”, whatever that was, and might even agree with you. However, just because there are some measures which are arguably a step too far, doesn’t mean no measures are necessary. Take two.

  128. October 23, 2014 1:15 pm

    “………………………….everything but terrorism”

    Yeah, because it wasn’t being ‘addressed’ previously. 🙄

  129. October 23, 2014 1:20 pm

    Of course we have our esteemed government’s ‘word’ that all of the new privacy invasion & virtual legal exemptions will only ever be brought to action against ‘terror’ suspects.
    Well, that’s good enough for me! They’d never abuse such power, especially given its almost complete lack of oversight, and neither will any other government in the future.

    We need protecting from ourselves. That’s how we do fweedomz.

  130. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2014 1:24 pm

    Oh look over there – a furry thing… domestic violence.

  131. October 23, 2014 1:27 pm

    “Here’s a novel idea: why not address both.

    Why not indeed. And if you were going to prioritise one, wouldn’t you choose the one where most people are directly affected in Australia?

  132. TB Queensland permalink
    October 23, 2014 1:28 pm

    In a one-off extra question, Newspoll asked voters whether they were in favour of Abbott’s intention to “confront” the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, over the shooting down of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in July. About 63% expressed support while 27% were against a confrontation.

    But they should have also asked … but who would you expect to win?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    etc………..etc……….etc………………………….everything but terrorism

    The “point” is that the terrorism laws are extreme to the point of having more effect on citizens than terrorists …

    You think terrorists haven’t been tracked WITHOUT the new tranche of The Abbott’s laws?

  133. October 23, 2014 1:30 pm

    ” just because there are some measures which are arguably a step too far, doesn’t mean no measures are necessary.

    So dropping bombs on Iraq, sorry I mean Australia’s “humanitarian effort” is going to prevent terrorist attacks in Australia, how exactly?

  134. October 23, 2014 1:35 pm

    If they (our leaders) were honest, they’d acknowledge that bombing Iraq is much more likely to escalate the threat of domestic tewwa than alleviate it.

    But if they were honest, they’d acknowledge that our last decade & a half of involvement in Iraq has worsened the situation.
    That doesn’t follow the script… & bluster & fear is much more useful for building political capital.
    Who doesn’t enjoy a bit of chestbeating along with the illusion of giving a few brown so & so’s who follow a remarkably similar different god a spanking, from a safe distance?

  135. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 1:38 pm

    “So dropping bombs on Iraq, sorry I mean Australia’s “humanitarian effort” is going to prevent terrorist attacks in Australia, how exactly?”

    Yeah, I already answered that one. (Hint: it’s not.)

    https://theguttertrash.com/2014/10/21/support-for-abbott-govt-slumps-in-latest-newspoll/#comment-79344

  136. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 1:41 pm

    Just as well Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize, way back when (he’d just taken office).

    He stopped the war in Iraq and instituted a humanitarian mission instead. The world is a much better place. Thank you Mr Nobel.

  137. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 1:50 pm

    “They didn’t actually get past planning, or no doubt in some cases just talking about doing something, but hey, They could have!!!”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(criminal)

  138. October 23, 2014 1:57 pm

    And, waddayaknow! The existing laws were sufficient to stop them.

    But hey, let’s all shit ourselves & give the government the capacity to invade the internet & the personal computer of every citizen of Australia, coz y’know, we should be more like China et al!
    Yes, we just aren’t safe enough until 20+million people can be snooped on without recourse because, maybe, some religious extremist might want to do some stuff sometime. Definitely worth handing over liberty for.

  139. October 23, 2014 2:00 pm

    My views on POTUS’ aren’t secret.

    I’m not so naïve as to think that Obama doesn’t purely serve US interests, and none of them have done that through ‘peaceful’ means, despite the lofty rhetoric which routinely eminates from that Superpower & its ardent supporters.

  140. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:04 pm

    “But hey, let’s all shit ourselves & give the government the capacity to invade the internet & the personal computer of every citizen of Australia”

    Can you give me a link to those new laws, please. I genuinely haven’t seen them, and there’s a big chance I’ll be equally outraged!

  141. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:10 pm

    “If they (our leaders) were honest, they’d acknowledge that bombing Iraq is much more likely to escalate the threat of domestic tewwa than alleviate it.”

    Upside-down logic.

    It is plain from the theoretical writings of the Salafists on how to go about creating an Islamic state de novo that the barbaric terror tactics employed by Islamic State are aimed at recruitment. They believe that by demonstrating that they are acting in accordance with Islamic teaching and practice in the manner of the first generation of Muslims they will convince many in the wider Muslim community of their authenticity and the legitmacy of their Caliphate. And in so doing they have drawn tens of thousands of foreign Muslims to their cause.

    It is the success in taking and holding territory and the graphic carnage that provides the glamour in the eyes of young Muslims who have been primed with Salafist religious beliefs in Western (including Australian) mosques. If we are serious about stopping Islamic State recruitment in the West we need to put a lid on Salafist teaching in Australia, inflict heavy casualties on Islamic State in Iraq and Syria and drive them out of the territory they hold.

    Good domestic policy is to wedge the radicals from the mainstream Muslim community and make clear that the ideas of the radicals have nothing to do with the vast majority of Muslims. Unfortunately a significant number of Muslim groups reject any such attempt. At least we now know that the radicals are not a “tiny minority”.

  142. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:10 pm

    And if you were going to prioritise one, wouldn’t you choose the one where most people are directly affected in Australia?

    It’s a point the wetterz seem to miss repeatedly

    He stopped the war in Iraq and instituted a humanitarian mission instead.

    Yea, don’t mention bush at all 😉

  143. eggboxtroll permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:11 pm

    ‘….a big chance I’ll be equally outraged!’

    Me too.

  144. eggboxtroll permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:16 pm

    ‘It’s a point the wetterz seem to miss repeatedly’

    Apples and oranges.

  145. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:18 pm

    At least we now know that the radicals are not a “tiny minority”.

    You’ll have to back that statement up somehow methinks splats

  146. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:19 pm

    Me too.

    Is that going to be your new moniker too?

  147. October 23, 2014 2:20 pm

    Iraq/Afghanistan circa 2000’s was the best recruiting tool an Islamofascist could have ever dreamed of.

    I am in two minds about our current involvement, more out of responsibility for what we caused by association 10 years ago. But, I am under no illusions that our going ‘back in’ won’t elevate domestic threats when, plainly, it will.

    This, I can agree with…”Good domestic policy is to wedge the radicals from the mainstream Muslim community and make clear that the ideas of the radicals have nothing to do with the vast majority of Muslims.”

    Given the size of the muslim population in Australia, I simply don’t believe that there are more than a few hundred (maximum) with actual intent to harm us…and of them, only an extreme hardened core who’d ever do more than talk about it or burning flags, carrying stupid slogans about beheading us etc.
    I see a genuine distinction between saying, or writing, “Behead All Who Insult Islam”, and actually carrying it out.
    If we were able to stamp out dumb beliefs, I’d cast the net wider into all kinds of religions, but I prefer to let people choose their own fantasies; until they make a genuine attempt to ‘include’ me in them.

  148. October 23, 2014 2:21 pm

    “Apples and oranges.’

    Yes…one regularly results in fatalities within our country & the other doesn’t.

    Apples & oranges indeed…and that is the point.

  149. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:26 pm

    If we were able to stamp out dumb beliefs

    we’d have no-one to argue about tories with then 😉

  150. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:33 pm

    Try this, TomR.

    **********

    “I see a genuine distinction between saying, or writing, “Behead All Who Insult Islam”, and actually carrying it out.

    If we were able to stamp out dumb beliefs, I’d cast the net wider into all kinds of religions, but I prefer to let people choose their own fantasies; until they make a genuine attempt to ‘include’ me in them.”

    At least we can agree on that much. The line is crossed is when they move to implement their fantasies. Who among us has not sat about in the pub arguing about who will be first against the wall come the revolution?

    I don’t want to criminalise their speech, rather when they talk shit like that they should be mocked and derided.

  151. October 23, 2014 2:40 pm

    “I don’t want to criminalise their speech, rather when they talk shit like that they should be mocked and derided.”

    Absolutely. And I believe that it is , by the overwhelming majority of right thinking people the world over.
    But treating moderates as if they fall into the same category as extremists & violent ‘terrorists’ is counterproductive & monosyllabic, imho.

  152. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:46 pm

    So, it’s your “opinion” that they are all radicals, nothing more. Yet their deeds and words say otherwise. Somehow splats your opinion doesn’t convince me.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2014/08/25/who-are-these-so-called-muslim-radicals/#comment-70897

  153. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:50 pm

    Can you give me a link to those new laws, please.

    For you tosy 😉

    The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) will soon be able to monitor every device on the internet, and copy, delete, or modify the data held on those computers with just a single warrant, under massive new powers contained in the anti-terror legislation that passed the Senate overnight.

    The amended National Security Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014 will now need to return to the House of Representatives in order to pass, but with a government majority in the House, its passage is assured.

    The legislation now expands ASIO’s powers to gain access to an unlimited number of computers or networks with a single computer access warrant, disrupt target computers, and use third-party computers not targeted in order to access a target computer.

    http://www.zdnet.com/au/asio-powers-to-spy-over-the-entire-internet-pass-the-senate-7000034073/

  154. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:59 pm

    Thanks Tom R. Sounds bad. How difficult will it be for them to get one of these so-called ‘computer access warrants, I wonder. Do they have to go before a magistrate, for example, and what kind of proof, if any, is required?

  155. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2014 2:59 pm

    “Somehow splats your opinion doesn’t convince me.”

    Indeed. You are troll. Nothing will convince you.

    The “radicals are only a tiny minority” argument does not sit will with a substantial number “mainstream groups” rejecting any attempt to distinguish moderates from radicals.

  156. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:00 pm

    Nothing will convince you.

    Well, evidence might help 😉

  157. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:01 pm

    Do they have to go before a magistrate, for example, and what kind of proof, if any, is required?

    I honestly don’t know hte details but, from what I understand, it is the very ambiguity that is concerning.

  158. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:02 pm

    Hmm, it looks like the two majors outvoted some voices of reason.

    ‘Liberal Democrat Senator David Leyonhjelm was also opposed to the legislation.

    ‘”It is not just the Greens who are of the opinion that this could give access to the entire internet on a single warrant. I do too and so does the Institute of Public Affairs. They have raised this issue with me. There does need to be some sort of constraint on the scope of warrants issued under this section. It just cannot be allowed to stand. It is a licence to snoop on anybody at any time, anywhere,” he said.

    ‘Greens senators, Independent MP Nick Xenophon, and Democratic Labor Party Senator John Madigan and David Leyonhjelm opposed the legislation, and put forward a number of amendments. But ultimately the legislation passed with the government’s own amendments, with 44 Coalition, Labor, Family First, and Palmer United Party senators voting for the legislation, and 12 Greens, and independent senators voting against it.’

  159. October 23, 2014 3:02 pm

    Thanks, TomR.

    I wasn’t sure if he thought I was just making shit up, or not.

    I’m sure he’ll be suitably outraged now. guffaw

    ‘Terror’ being such a broad and politically expedient term, I think the fraught nature of such new laws, especially their virtual lack of independent oversight, is obvious.
    But, luckily we have Brandis’ hollow assurances & of course we can trust every government we’re likely to have in the future.

    Far more of a potential impact on every citizen than any handful of terrorists, I’d have thought.
    No sunset clause & too ripe for exploitation by authoritarians; will never be repealed.

  160. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:04 pm

    Well, we standing in queue with guns cocked before they even asked about Iraq. What’s the difference?

  161. October 23, 2014 3:04 pm

    ” Do they have to go before a magistrate, for example, and what kind of proof, if any, is required?’

    Based purely upon what I’ve read elsewhere, I don’t think so and not much. I believe that the burden of proof has been dropped even lower than mere ‘suspicion’.

  162. October 23, 2014 3:07 pm

    The two majors voted that shit through because it’s crystal clear to them what a useful tool it would be for a cynical government…and they both take turns in the big chair.

    The speed & lack of debate or scrutiny involved are what people in this country should be genuinely concerned about.

  163. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:08 pm

    “I wasn’t sure if he thought I was just making shit up, or not.”

    I probably missed it when my eyes glazed over from reading all the “worst prime minister and worst budget and worst government ever in the history of the universe” stuff. I tend to just skip over most of it. Ricky, if you ever say anything worthwhile in one of your rants, I definitely won’t read it. Just sayin’.

  164. October 23, 2014 3:14 pm

    ” “worst prime minister and worst budget and worst government ever in the history of the universe”

    I’d be surprised if my objections to it were accompanied by any of that.

    I’m keenly aware that the ALP are balls deep in it. I imagine Ricky is too.

  165. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:21 pm

    I’m keenly aware that the ALP are balls deep in it

    That didn’t escape my attention either 😦

  166. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:22 pm

    “I’d be surprised if my objections to it were accompanied by any of that.”

    I must have been temporarily disengaged. On the face of it, I don’t like these new powers. Shades of the NSA controversy.

    This does not equal me joining in the tewwa-mocking.

  167. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:22 pm

    I also note albanese made a big song and dance about it …. after he voted it through of course.

  168. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:26 pm

    I recall the OUTRAGE over Labors planned “opt out/in” internet filter. Now, we have no choice, we are all opted in, and not a squeal of complaint from those most vociferous previously over one with choice.

    Government agencies would be required to put up “stop pages” alerting the public to websites blocked under Section 313 of the Telecommunications Act under proposals put forward by the Department of Communications.

    http://www.zdnet.com/website-blocking-is-not-internet-filtering-australian-government-7000034943/

  169. October 23, 2014 3:30 pm

    Concervatives. A freshly minted word.

    Yeah a label word stolen by Tony Abbott in presnting himseld as moserate when he is not even close
    He’s lick spittle radial Bob Santamaris sycophant tewwa hyperventilatoing neocon totty teabagging godbotherer with a new pair of speedo’s (offensive to childeren) and a few slogans

    About as far fro “conservative’ as you can get

    If the polls go down the Tewwa alert goes up…

    A: rattle a few dress wearing falafel munching bankstowners into Jihad by way of reckless racist division comments with no regard for the people who actually live in multicultural area’s

    B: Pretend the uneducated ignorant fucktards, flat out tying their shoelaces are terrorist masterminds

    C: Demonize and ramp up the rhetoric of what may have been if they had\nt saved us from the marauding islamists..

    Hint.. Anything that Tony Abbott or George Brandis say that is predicated with the phrase “intelligence shows”…. Isn’t.

  170. October 23, 2014 3:32 pm

    moserate :roll:… monstrous minuscule maligned

    Moderate

  171. October 23, 2014 3:39 pm

    “This does not equal me joining in the tewwa-mocking.”

    No, fair enough, you’d be kicked out of Team Fear if you did.

    But I’d hazard a guess that you may be able to recognise the way that conflated tewwa was obviously used to bludgeon these, quite serious, laws through in record time with virtually no accountability. Terror alarmism is the fulcrum for them.

    Unfortunately, ‘terrorist’ is unlikely to be applied only to Islamic Radicals in perpetuity.

  172. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 3:48 pm

    “Team Fear”

    See, that sort of stuff detracts from your otherwise reasonable arguments. But, hey, I’m a self-declared free speech extremist, so go for your life.

  173. October 23, 2014 3:58 pm

    Howabout “Team Pseudo Patriotism thinly disguised as an exercise in maligning and marginalising those people who refuse to get on board with the whole you’re either for us or against us so-called “team”bullshit nonsense?”

  174. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 23, 2014 4:08 pm

    So we have some violent, uncompromising religious nutcases who rape women then enslave them as the spoils of their victory. They build commitment to their nation with a “convert of die” mantra.

    The victims are people we promised to give a better life, and “democracy”

    But now we should just wash our hands of our previous commitments and actions and tell them we’re more interested in domestic violence?

  175. October 23, 2014 4:45 pm

    “See, that sort of stuff detracts from your otherwise reasonable arguments.”

    Team Fear is my direct sarcastic response to being (presumably) placed at the forefront of Team Jeer. 😉

  176. October 23, 2014 4:47 pm

    “But now we should just wash our hands of our previous commitments and actions and tell them we’re more interested in domestic violence?”

    Not sure how you arrived at that particular straw construction, YomM.

  177. eggboxtroll permalink
    October 23, 2014 4:50 pm

    ‘Apples & oranges indeed…and that is the point.’

    Domestic violence is a scourge and the authorities are trying to stamp it out, but if we are serious it may require drug law reform. Its becoming too complicated, all to do with our customs and culture, whereas post modern terrorism is clearly derived from aliens and can be nipped in the bud.

    The government has a responsibility to protect the people from free radicals, otherwise they should be thrown out of office.

  178. October 23, 2014 4:51 pm

    How about gold medal winning team deceit ?
    or
    Team Poll down tewwa up?

    Tewwa mocking? What….yeah considering the cage rattling it may well be some Brutus in his own party that politically Assassinates Terror Tony… with all their eleventy wolf crying megaphone diplomacy… emergencyism

    That’s if he doesn’t fall an his own faux pork sward draped in an Aussie flag, speedo’s and thongs made in China. crying out Love it or leave it

  179. October 23, 2014 4:53 pm

    ” And whatever you do, definitely do not refer to the one thing the terrorists have in common, and which they proudly state motivates them, their religious beliefs.”

    I’ve referred to their primarily religious motivations on innumerable occasions.

    But, how’d you like, as a Catholic, to be lumped in with crazies from the Westboro Baptist Congregation? I’m sure that parallel is obvious & ridiculous enough to illustrate my point.

    I think YomM may be the one who thinks it’s more about the Islamists geopolitical environment; and no doubt, that has a lot of bearing on them. But, at the end of the day, you can quote the nasty fuckers citing their backwardsarsed religion as their rationalisation for death & subjugation.

  180. October 23, 2014 4:58 pm

    Domestic violence is a scourge and the authorities are trying to stamp it out, but if we are serious it may require drug law reform

    Dunno Egg I can see that your husband would need a fuck load of drugs to put up with you without turning you into an omelette.. You are a nagging bitch that wont shut up…

    There is no justification for such violence but I can see how women like you incite it in lesser men with a perpensity to violent acts with that relentless flea in the ear fuctardery

  181. October 23, 2014 5:00 pm

    “emergencyism”

    I like that. It readily applies to a lot of this government’s political strategizing & ‘official’ line.

  182. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 23, 2014 5:04 pm

    I’m also quite comfortable with making it illegal to say – “behead infidels” or “murder black people ” or “gas Jews”

    Violent nutcases don’t need to feel encouraged or as if they are part of a wider movement or community

  183. October 23, 2014 5:04 pm

    I daresay alcohol (y’know, the socially acceptable substance) has far more to do with domestic violence than most other ‘drugs’.

    That and mindset. It takes a certain type to be ok with the idea of intimidating, overpowering or indeed striking a female.
    That’s not to say that females aren’t capable of dishing out a bit too, but male V female is rarely gonna be an anatomically fair fight.

  184. October 23, 2014 5:12 pm

    “Domestic violence is a scourge and the authorities are trying to stamp it out”

    Really? – you have a link to back that up?

    “but if we are serious it may require drug law reform”

    WTF has that got to do with domestic violence?

    “Its becoming too complicated”

    Yeah for you, pea brain.

    “The government has a responsibility to protect the people from free radicals”

    You can take vitamin supplements for that.

  185. October 23, 2014 5:13 pm

    “I’m also quite comfortable with making it illegal to say – “behead infidels” or “murder black people ” or “gas Jews””

    Well, I’m not.

    Any of those things could be said/written in jest; as poor taste as that may be, poor taste should never be criminalised.

    Violent nutcases… actual violent nutcases can’t be stopped or deterred if they’re determined & unhinged.
    They are always an absolute minority of the population.

    It will be many a generation before Islam, moderate, radical or otherwise, has majority input into our society.
    The BoltianSteyns have been acting like we were overrun years ago.

  186. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 23, 2014 5:35 pm

    If a nutcase in Darwin feels that there are plenty of his “friends” saying “let’s kills some abos”. I don’t think that’s just poor taste. Same goes for other f**kwits that talk about killing for some religious, political or cleansing reason

  187. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2014 5:50 pm

    “But, how’d you like, as a Catholic, to be lumped in with crazies from the Westboro Baptist Congregation? I’m sure that parallel is obvious & ridiculous enough to illustrate my point.”

    The point I was trying to make is that there is a common set of religious beliefs which the jihadist groups share, and which they explicitly state is the basis of their actions. I have nothing but contempt for those so hamstrung by ideology that they search desparately for any other motivation than religion because they are, like, so tolerant and into diversity and all that gooey stuff.

    Cleary there isn’t one set of beliefs that is Islam. Many groups call themselves Muslims and have fairly murderous attitudes to others who also call themselves Muslims but believe different things. It is not for non-Muslims to work out what true Islam is.

    When I talk about the jihadists I often refer to them as Salafists and even that covers a large number of variants. Sometimes I just refer to their common ‘religious beliefs’ as I did in this case so I would not have to put up with comments like the one you made anyway. I didn’t refer to their Islamic beliefs (but rather to their religious beliefs) even though it would have been fair to do so. This is because, once you accept that there are many variants of Islam, the jihadis are certainly one such variant and are, in that sense, Islamic.

    Back to your particular question – I am so used to being lumped in with crazies it doesn’t phase me at all. If you say, for example, that the Westboro crew do their nasty shit because of their Christian beliefs, who cares? That statement (a) is correct, and (b) has nothing to do with what I believe.

    What does interest me is that when people do try to distinguish between the ‘tiny minority’ of radicals and the moderates, a bunch of the ‘moderates’ sign a statement saying that they reject that distinction.

  188. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2014 5:53 pm

    “If a nutcase in Darwin feels that there are plenty of his “friends” saying “let’s kills some abos”. I don’t think that’s just poor taste.”

    What is it then? It doesn’t matter how vile the words are, if the conduct doesn’t otherwise amount to a crime (conspiracy, assault, harrassment) the words themselves should not be criminalised.

  189. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 5:54 pm

    “Team Pseudo Patriotism thinly disguised as an exercise in maligning and marginalising those people who refuse to get on board with the whole you’re either for us or against us so-called “team”bullshit nonsense?”

    And it just rolls of the tongue too 😉

    If a nutcase in Darwin feels that there are plenty of his “friends” saying “let’s kills some abos”. I don’t think that’s just poor taste.

    Have we had the same overbearing chest thumping bullshit about that, or anything else apart from “muzzie tewwa”?

    Therein lies my problem. It’s an issue, true, but there are others, also.

    Not to mention that all of this chest thumping does nothing but inflame situations (as inflamed s they might already be)

  190. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2014 6:22 pm

    “let’s kills some abos” sounds a lot like conspiracy splats.

    #justsayin

  191. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 6:37 pm

    I enjoyed the discussion here today. Thanks to all who participated.

  192. October 23, 2014 6:38 pm

    That’s nice of you Tony. I did too. 🙂

  193. October 23, 2014 6:54 pm

    Me too…

  194. TB Queensland permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:33 pm

    He stopped the war in Iraq and instituted a humanitarian mission instead. The world is a much better place. Thank you Mr Nobel.

    Erm … yes … Obama didn’t start it – Bush junior did … and it was internationally illegal … for which Howard got the (cough) Peace Medal … Obama should be castigated for instituting a “humanitarian mission” instead of going to war?

    How fkn 19th Century …

  195. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:41 pm

    Speaking of security and stuff, there were several of these roaming round the grounds of the Palais Versailles when I visited in Sept-Oct 2011. Iwas quite shocked – shocked – at the time. I guess we’re not far from that now,

    blob:https%3A//www.flickr.com/879568c0-96ac-4304-9ce6-459ac199fcc6

  196. TB Queensland permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:42 pm

    Cleary there isn’t one set of beliefs that is Islam. Many groups call themselves Muslims and have fairly murderous attitudes to others who also call themselves Muslims but believe different things. It is not for non-Muslims to work out what true Islam is.

    Why not?

    Some of have been trying to figure what “true” christianity is … I’ve yet to JC’s teachings in reality in my lifetime …

    The ADF has chaplains … wonder if they have imams or rabbis …

    Religion is the root of all evil on this planet … picking on one only highlights that you belong to another … just because the Muslims are a couple of centuries behind christians with their atrocities doesn’t make christianity “better” …

    Apologies if I’ve disturbed the “enjoyment” of the afternoon … I just arrived 🙂

  197. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:45 pm

    That went well.:shock:

    Try again.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/128855231@N07/15421061940/

  198. TB Queensland permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:48 pm

    If we are in such danger maybe The Abbott & Monks should consider repealing the gun laws …

    Just sayin’ …

  199. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:50 pm

    “If we are in such danger maybe The Abbott & Monks should consider repealing the gun laws …”

    You got me.

  200. TB Queensland permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:52 pm

    And ToSY we were in London the day after the underground bombings … seeing British bobbies with automatics was a bit chilling …

    In 1997 tho’ we landed in Cairo to see police with automatics, military with automatics, tourist police with automatics and Land Rovers on the streets with 50 cal machine guns …

    Australia really is a land of …

  201. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:56 pm

    They also had one of these.

    099

  202. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 7:59 pm

    And some of these.

    090

  203. Tony permalink
    October 23, 2014 8:04 pm

    Hmm. The other one seems to have disappeared.

    120

  204. TB Queensland permalink
    October 23, 2014 8:15 pm

    One of these and some of these?

    Funny that … France is one of the biggest weapons exporters in the world … along with the Russia, UK, USA, Germany … anyone would think they wanted people to go to war with us … hey … ?

  205. TB Queensland permalink
    October 23, 2014 8:18 pm

    I think a firearms law repeal is imminent … whatchya reckon, egg?

  206. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2014 11:10 pm

    So it’s all settled then.

    Our Laws are Already absolutely perfect and will capture and prevent all possible plots that any advances in technology will require.

    I’ll sleep well then

  207. October 24, 2014 12:37 am

    “sleep with one eye open” Wally after all tewwa bugs are bitin om eleventy 🙂

  208. eggboxtroll permalink
    October 24, 2014 7:00 am

    ‘whatchya reckon, egg?’

    Highly unlikely.

  209. Tom R permalink
    October 24, 2014 8:31 am

    hockey talks tough but ultimately protects the big end of his town

    The Australian Taxation Office says it has cut more than 500 jobs from its crucial auditing team as it tries to meet the federal government’s budget cuts.

    The ATO’s audit team is responsible for investigating and enforcing tax compliance by individuals and multinational companies.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/audit-team-checking-tax-payments-by-multinational-companies-hard-hit-by-department-job-cuts-20141023-11aqk1.html

    From memory, isn’t this a team that actually makes money?

  210. Tom R permalink
    October 24, 2014 8:45 am

    The libs are hell bent on destroying the RET, and hell bent on blaming Labor for it.

    If there was any doubt that the Abbott government wants to destroy the renewable energy industry in Australia, this week’s announcement of its plans for the Renewable Energy Target (RET) has cleared things up.

    In a media conference this week, Energy Minister Ian Macfarlane said that the government wants to reduce the Renewable Energy Target. The target will be slashed from its current legislated figure of 41,000 gigawatt hours in 2020, to a figure that Macfarlane is calling a “real 20 per cent.”

    The “real 20 per cent” is a classic bit of Coalition spin. If you look through the Howard government’s legislation for the RET, you will find no mention of a target of “20 per cent” renewable energy in 2020.

    https://newmatilda.com/2014/10/23/undermining-renewable-energy-target-costly-mistake

    I don’t think murdoch will be able to help them blame Labor for this though. It is too obvious what they are about

  211. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 24, 2014 9:06 am

    “Why not?”

    There are a number of reasons why I am of the view that it is not for non-Muslims to work out what true Islam is.

    Firstly it is impossible. If you are not a Muslim then you don’t believe any of it is true. Only an adherent of one of the variants of Islam will even claim to know what the true Islam is – presumably the variant they believe in.

    Second, it is pathetic to watch political ignoramuses from Obama to Abbott pronounce that Islam is a religion of peace and that the latest terror atrocity is not in keeping with true Islam. On what logical basis can they even purport to know what true Islam is?

    Third, it is irrelevant. The real point is to identify the particular religious belief that commands or permits the vile behaviour. Thus, the Islamic belief that theft is wrong is uncontentious. There is much to like in the teachings of Islam. On the other hand the belief that apostates and blasphemers should be killed or punished is vile. The belief that Muslims have a duty to fight in the path of Allah for the imposition of Islam throughout the world is dangerous.

    In the contest of ideas it is better to agree on the good ideas and condemn the dangerous and offensive ideas that lead to head-lopping.

  212. October 24, 2014 11:30 pm

    A Fascist Fuckfest of Orwellian proportions.. Go Scott Ludlum !!! The guys at Rap News do it again!!!!

  213. Tom R permalink
    October 25, 2014 9:16 am

    A fascist fuckfest of orwellian proportions

    So when are you going to get a poetry thread going Ricky lol 😉

  214. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 25, 2014 11:33 am

    …There are a number of reasons why I am of the view that it is not for non-Muslims to work out what true Islam is…

    I don’t know why anyone wants to work out any of the ‘one true’ faiths. it seems to me that religion is very much what the believer wants it to be and they interpret the scripture to fit inherent bigotries and bias.

    …Firstly it is impossible. If you are not a Muslim then you don’t believe any of it is true. Only an adherent of one of the variants of Islam will even claim to know what the true Islam is – presumably the variant they believe in.
    Second, it is pathetic to watch political ignoramuses from Obama to Abbott pronounce that Islam is a religion of peace and that the latest terror atrocity is not in keeping with true Islam. On what logical basis can they even purport to know what true Islam is?…

    Que?

    Same can be said of christianity. look at all the different variants eg catholicism, anglican, protestant, gospel happy clappers and all those cults, all set up to get as much money from believers as possible.
    People who profess a christian faith also commit crimes, plenty get jailed. Right wing christian nut jobs have also had their shooting sprees. The difference is how it’s reported. If it’s a RWNJ, they report an individual action by a deranged lone gunman, if it’s a muslim, it’s reported as a terrorist act and the entire religion is blamed for the individual act.

  215. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 25, 2014 11:42 am

    The government has a responsibility to protect the people from free radicals, otherwise they should be thrown out of office.

    The government has a responsibility to protect people from all unlawful behaviour, our own culture included.

  216. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 25, 2014 12:25 pm

    As for the argument against sending people to Iraq – “we’re in no danger, more are killed here by domestic violence”…. might as well point out that exactly the same argument can be made about Ebola.

    • No one here has been killed by terrorists Ebola, but there’s a clamouring that we send our people overseas to fight it!!!
    • The threat about terrorism Ebola is a media beat up
    • Why should we send people half way across the world to fight the terrorism Ebola threat when it hasn’t happened here?

  217. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 25, 2014 12:59 pm

    Why should we send people half way across the world to fight the terrorism Ebola threat when it hasn’t happened here?

    It will come here tomM. That’s the reason to contain it there, it will kill more people here than our iraqi involvement.

    There’s a lot of “it’s only affecting black people” too

  218. Pantzwetters and Tewwaists permalink
    October 25, 2014 2:15 pm

    Good point armchair opinionator. Sending medical people to Africa helps avoid ebola coming here. Sending troops to Iraq encourages terrorists to act here.

  219. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 25, 2014 2:24 pm

    If the government assigns people to countries to Ebola effected countries, then I think it is entirely reasonable that they have a specific emergency plan to bring them home and treat them if they test positive.

    Without this, the government would be negligent and acting dangerously.
    ————
    Re “terrowism” – just looking at the issue without the Islamic/cultural focus…

    If there was some international men’s movement, clearly right wing, that had adherents here, and their objective was gaining support by –
    • Enslaving and suppressing women
    • Raping them before enslaving them
    • Killing those that didn’t like their ideas
    • Spruiking their propaganda over the web, and even getting some traction with this

    I think there would be outrage among women’s groups, there would be demands for censorship by left oriented types, the left would be marching and demonstrating, demanding some “action” to stop this movement.

  220. TB Queensland permalink
    October 25, 2014 2:48 pm

    If the government assigns people to countries to Ebola effected countries, then I think it is entirely reasonable that they have a specific emergency plan to bring them home and treat them if they test positive.

    Mmmmm … that could be applied to ALL ADF actions around the world … and they are negligent and acting dangerously …

    Maybe its time we actually fitted out a couple of hospital ships …

    I think there would be outrage among women’s groups, there would be demands for censorship by left oriented types, the left would be marching and demonstrating, demanding some “action” to stop this movement.

    We already do … and its clearly right wing as you state … how many women in Cabinet?

    I reckon that’s one of your most insightful, comments, ToM … well done ….

  221. TB Queensland permalink
    October 25, 2014 2:50 pm

    Ooops …

    … Mmmmm … that could be applied to ALL ADF actions around the world … and the government IS negligent and acting dangerously …

  222. October 25, 2014 4:32 pm

    ” demanding some “action” to stop this movement.”

    The ‘action’ has been waaaay overdone, in relation to the capacity of the threat (which is ridiculously hyped & overstated).

    I’ve never said “do nothing “.

    Existing legal arrangements are/were more than ample. The hype is/was to build political capital & also to allow the streamlined passage of overbearing laws which are fraught with implications into the future.

    You know better, YomM.

  223. October 25, 2014 4:41 pm

    For reb…

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/gay-marriage/bill-shorten-tells-the-australian-christian-lobby-he-believes-in-god-and-gay-marriage/story-fnizhakg-1227102032339

    To me, as soon as a politician says “I believe in god” they lose all credibility. I’d like specifics; which of course they cannot divulge without sounding like they believe in nursery rhymes…

    Ya see, most decent people of all persuasions believe in some Christian values, which I might add are certainly not exclusive to Christianity (or indeed religion)…but that is absolutely not the same as saying “I believe in Christian (or any) god”.

    Bill Shorten…”“These prejudices do not reflect the Christian values I believe in.”

  224. October 25, 2014 4:43 pm

    At least he’s on the record, I suppose.

    A wedge?

    Only the more ‘enthusiastic’ botherers get all hed up about gay marriage…and slippery slopers playing to their ‘base’, like Bolt.
    I honestly think most people don’t begrudge gay marriage; and definitely recognise that it’s no threat to them or society.

  225. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 25, 2014 4:43 pm

    Yeah, right TB.

    • Does the military have facilities to treat the people wounded in the conflict?
    • Do you think it would be irresponsible if the government sent people into conflict without the ability to provide medical support?
    ————
    HD, I’m not referring to any particular comment here (other than my reply to AO & TB above), it is more of a general observation.

    If we ignore the fact that ISIS allege they’re spreading Islam, and look at how “the left” might behave if confronted with some group of mindless right wing reactionaries raping and suppressing women and beheading opponents, and stating that they have international objectives and promoting their recruitment across the social media… I think there would be plenty of alarm among “the left”

    But, I’m also not persuaded that all the legislative changes are needed.

  226. October 25, 2014 4:49 pm

    Thanks Boss.

    Shorten’s speech was broadcast on ABC24…

    At least he had the guts to voice his support for marriage equality in front of the ACL mob…

    Why anyone, let alone MPs continue to participate in anything orchestrated by the ACL is beyond me though.

  227. October 25, 2014 4:49 pm

    It’s a bit more insidious than all that, YomM. Have a closer look at the changes which have already been made & the disturbing ease with which both majors rushed them through!

    Also, using ‘National Security’ to build political capital is politics101, and I’d be astounded if you didn’t acknowledge that such rhetoric has been abused for political expedience throughout the ages; by all stripes of government, cynically & expediently.
    The plebs are much more pliant if they can have their existence threatened by boogeymen.

  228. October 25, 2014 4:52 pm

    “Why anyone, let alone MPs continue to participate in anything orchestrated by the ACL is beyond me though.”

    Agreed.

    Except the truly deranged ones, like Abetz et al, who are quite comfortable publically referencing such things as ‘Noah’ as a dismissal of climate change. The list goes on. There’s plenty of botherers around.

    I agree that at least Shorten had the nads to front that loony gathering…and not tell them exactly what they wanted to hear.

    But…Mooooooslems!!!!

  229. October 25, 2014 4:57 pm

    At least Gillard declared her atheism.

    Admittedly, not too many of the slimy fucks have the cojones to do that (I bet she wouldn’t have done it if she was running for PM, rather than usurping the title).

    And yet, she still stood in the way of same sex marriage.

    Politicians. Can’t. Be. Trusted.

    They say what they want us to ,I>think they believe, most of the time; not what they actually believe, or don’t.

  230. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:04 pm

    …If the government assigns people to countries to Ebola effected countries, then I think it is entirely reasonable that they have a specific emergency plan to bring them home and treat them if they test positive…

    Of course, I would expect nothing less.

    They can engage us in war at the drop of a hat, spend billions on a G20 poser, grant themselves huge powers and privileges over the rights and privacy of their own citizens, Surely they can manage some infection control policy.

    If there was some international men’s movement, clearly right wing, that had adherents here, and their objective was gaining support by –
    • Enslaving and suppressing women
    • Raping them before enslaving them
    • Killing those that didn’t like their ideas
    • Spruiking their propaganda over the web, and even getting some traction with this

    There is, it’s called patriarchy

    We’re still fighting it. Seems it’s just the degree of it that you don’t like, you’re happy to accept it when a beneficiary of it yourself, but point the big finger at those who cross the line.

    raping, suppressing, enslaving, killing women, propaganda male outrage, you may not have noticed, but it still happens here.

  231. TB Queensland permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:10 pm

    • Does the military have facilities to treat the people wounded in the conflict?
    • Do you think it would be irresponsible if the government sent people into conflict without the ability to provide medical support?

    1. not always … SF have a particular problem …

    2. Rhetorical question, or what? Yes, and they sometimes do …

    You seem to gave the idea with IS that those of us with an admitted leaning left don’t have a problem with IS … I think I can speak for those others here and tell emphatically we do …

    As Toilette has constantly pointed out … its the politicising and reduction of democratic freedom unnecessarily that we object to …

    As for Ebola – like IS it needs to be cut off at the pass … Ebola doesn’t survive well in the temperate zones … but it does in the tropics …

    If this government can’t find a way to support medical staff who, I understand, want to help … then they need to let someone else take the helm … if you look back at history the Libs generally crumble in national crises … and we have a couple of doozies …

  232. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:11 pm

    I’m not personally alarmed about it, I don’t se it as a threat to my wellbeing, I think I’m realistic, and can factually describe ISIS as – a growing international movement, with territorial claims, that uses execution, rape and cruelty to achieve it’s objectives.

    I’m quite ok with trying to “degrade” it.

  233. TB Queensland permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:12 pm

    Typo … You seem to have the idea …

  234. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:13 pm

    Politicians. Can’t. Be. Trusted.

    They lack courage, too scared to lose some votes. Gough was the last of the courageous reformers and the establishment sought to destroy him, we won’t see another like him unless the time is right for revolution and we stop being apathetic acceptors of the shit sandwich handed out by the lib-lab corporocracy.

  235. TB Queensland permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:13 pm

    I think that’s about everyone’s position in a nutshell, ToM … but personally I’d like to wipe the pricks right out!

  236. TB Queensland permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:14 pm

    Geesus, KL, don’t say revolution … ASIO must read this blog … !!!

  237. TB Queensland permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:16 pm

    Enjoy yer afternoon … I’m off for an Oktoberfest at my daughters … should be fun drinking with my Teutonic friend for a few hours! Prost! 🙂

  238. October 25, 2014 5:17 pm

    “I’m quite ok with trying to “degrade” it.”

    So…do you consider the steps being (supposedly) taken to degrade it here as commensurate & necessary? With no added fear-spicing to ‘wow’ the voting population?

    Bearing in mind that the ‘homegrown’ threat may number under a single thousand.

  239. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:17 pm

    I’m not personally alarmed about it, I don’t se it as a threat to my wellbeing, I think I’m realistic, and can factually describe ISIS as – a growing international movement, with territorial claims, that uses execution, rape and cruelty to achieve it’s objectives.

    Name an army and a war that hasn’t.

    IS is at war isn’t it? wonder why?

  240. October 25, 2014 5:18 pm

    Achtung! Die vergeltung kommt!

    Oktober!

  241. October 25, 2014 5:20 pm

    “I think that’s about everyone’s position in a nutshell, ToM ”

    Indeed!

    But why the fuck should we tighten the screws on ourselves at home (forever, these laws won’t be wound back) to achieve it (YomM)?

  242. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 25, 2014 5:20 pm

    ” If this government can’t find a way to support medical staff who, I understand, want to help … then they need to let someone else take the helm …

    Fine, but have UK or USA volunteered to look after the people we would send there as a government policy?

    TB, can you name the country that has stepped forward to offer this?
    ——
    ” Seems it’s just the degree of it that you don’t like, you’re happy to accept it when a beneficiary of it yourself, but point the big finger at those who cross the line.

    I’m not happy about it, and I’m not sure how I’m a beneficiary either.

    Can you point to some online recruitment video or propaganda that seeks more violent wife beaters, or a club that exists to rape? Perhaps bikies, and I’m entirely to police them out of existence.

    I’m also happy to lock up wife beaters and rapists for as long as you nominate.

    Name a figure you’d like to spend on public education about domestic violence and policing of it, and I’m happy to agree.

  243. October 25, 2014 5:29 pm

    “IS is at war isn’t it?”

    I think the dickheads who enjoy beheading, crucifixion, enslavement & imposition of their breed of misplaced divinity (not to mention the uber example of the patriarchy KL mentions) are trying to revert to the worst parts of their holy shit books. A cheap rationalisation for them. Almost a license for them to murder without conscience because their (version of) god told them to…through a human mouthpiece from centuries ago; as always (except for L Ron).

    ” wonder why?’

    Ill advised incursions into their ‘sphere’ by ‘us’ have definitely given them plenty of ammunition to fuel the aggrieved aggression (which is still inexcusable).
    I’m sure most citizens of said nations just wish that invading armies of both IS and the west would just fuck off, stop destabilising them & leave them to rebuild/get on with their lives. Yes, even the muslims.

  244. October 25, 2014 5:30 pm

    So…do you consider the steps being (supposedly) taken to degrade it here as commensurate & necessary? With no added fear-spicing to ‘wow’ the voting population?

  245. October 25, 2014 5:57 pm

    “But…Mooooooslems!!!!”

    Head for the hills!

  246. October 25, 2014 6:28 pm

    hah! 😉

  247. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 25, 2014 7:22 pm

    ”So…do you consider the steps being (supposedly) taken to degrade it here as commensurate & necessary? With no added fear-spicing to ‘wow’ the voting population?

    I agree that there is political imperative/pressure for “doing something” – but I’m of the view that we should “do something” if the alternative is “doing nothing”

    We promised the people now being slaughtered and dispossessed a better life and “democracy”. I’m not comfortable with sitting on our hands.

  248. Tom R permalink
    October 25, 2014 7:56 pm

    We promised the people now being slaughtered and dispossessed a better life and “democracy”. I’m not comfortable with sitting on our hands.

    Neither am I. But I am now convinced that bombing indiscriminately (and yes, effectively, we are) is the answer.

    We need to work with the local population, not simply attempt to enforce our will from afar. And we need to do it with their best interests at heart, not ours (because, in the long run, their best interests is ours)

    Considering the long list of major fuck ups by ALL western Governments post ww2 (possibly ww1) in the middle east, we should butt out completely, and simply provide financial and humanitarian support as requested.

    Our current ‘humanitarian’ mission is at the end of a fucken warhead, again.

    Whether the region is too far gone, who knows. But we have been at least partly, if not largely, responsible for bombing it back into the dark ages. We are reaping what we have sown, As we frantically continue to sow, again.

    And they somehow expect the outcome to differ this time. bollocks. It will only inflame it. Again.

  249. Tom R permalink
    October 25, 2014 8:00 pm

    I’m not comfortable with sitting on our hands.

    Yet you are comfortable with us sitting on our hands now, even though Australians are going over there themselves without any Government assistance, and without any worries about help from other countries should the worst happen.

    Our grubmint is stalling. It is the only excuse for no action being taken. Meanwhile, we have people here ready and willing to go, but without the resources to do so.

    Our grubmint have dropped the ball on this big time, while wasting resources sitting on their asses over in the Middle East.

    No guns, no go. it seems to be the motto

  250. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 25, 2014 8:03 pm

    …I’m off for dinner now, but a quick reply…

    “And we need to do it with their best interests at heart, not ours (because, in the long run, their best interests is ours)

    If we only barrack from the sidelines (what does “work with the local population” mean?) – ISIS will be Tutsis vs vs Hutus but much worse, and in a year or 2 we’ll all just be wringing our hands and wishing we’d “done something”

  251. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 25, 2014 8:18 pm

    We promised the people now being slaughtered and dispossessed a better life and “democracy”. I’m not comfortable with sitting on our hands.

    nah ah, they’ve come by boat and knocked on our door, only to be told we hate them and would rather see them die in a concentration camp or “fuck off we’re full”.

    I agree that there is political imperative/pressure for “doing something”

    Pretty sure that’s why we had an unprecedented roll out of ASIO and AFP, ADF heads, telling us how alarmed and frightened they are, because we would be too, if only we knew what they know [which is too secret squirrel to talk about].

    Now they’ve passed new security laws and we’re in the humanitarian war, killing people with kindness, we haven’t seen them. Too busy with important G20 strutting & protecting the PM from himself.

    It’s almost as if they know that once we go skipping happily off to war, other innocent australians, just ordinary people, become a terrorist target at home..

  252. public toilet permalink
    October 26, 2014 8:47 am

    I said “degrade it here”, YomM. Going back into Iraq is a different response to a non-domestic issue. Changing domestic laws won’t help Iraq.
    Are you comfortable with the measures here?

  253. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 9:08 am

    (what does “work with the local population” mean?)

    Here’s a hint

    3) Address the underlying political grievances of local populations
    http://winwithoutwar.org/alternatives-isis/

    Which, as you full well know, is not “barracking from the sidelines “, no matter how many times you make the baseless allegation.

    Mind you, that is precisely what we are doing with Ebola, and you support that?

  254. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 9:14 am

    Are you comfortable with the measures here?

    To date, the barrackers have been quite uncommitted on this. A vast departure from their previous vociferousness on the topic, regardless of the veracity of their arguments

  255. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 9:25 am

    Why is Bill Shorten Attending the Australian Christian Lobby National Conference?

    I wonder if his speech yesterday lecturing them on the ability to be a Christian and also support gay marriage goes any way to answering this question.

    Inclusiveness perhaps?

  256. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 9:26 am

    And clear evidence of the “success”(?) of our tewwa laws

    A rescue mission to save 17-year-old Abdullah Elmir, dubbed the “Ginger Jihadi”, from joining Islamic State fighters in Iraq was abandoned at the last minute because of fears those involved may end up being charged under the federal government’s foreign incursion laws.

    http://www.theage.com.au/nsw/rescue-mission-to-save-the-ginger-jihadi-thwarted-at-11th-hour-20141025-11bn1t.html

    So much for inclusiveness 😦

  257. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 10:05 am

    kudos for Bongiorno realising now, but really, anyone who had watched yabot over the years shouldn’t be surprised. At least it isn’t his job to notice these things hey 😯

  258. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 10:06 am

  259. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 10:43 am

    Well put 🙂

  260. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 10:48 am

    ”Are you comfortable with the measures here?

    No one has been able to articulate a solid rationale for the changes to national security legislation.

    Brandis recently said that individual liberty was part of the Liberals DNA. This caused me to gag.

    The Liberals are into surveillance of their opponents and all the Liberal encouraged ASIO spying on opponents of the Vietnam war is proof of Brandis’ bulls**t.

    The current laws seem quite adequate, and I’m not bothered by the very visible use of the police.

    As I’ve said previously, these potential murderers have about the same ethics as bikies – they’re mainly people with a criminal history that are attracted to violence – they should be policed in about the same way as bikies.

  261. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 10:51 am

    3) Address the underlying political grievances of local populations”

    Which is fine with me, as long as it doesn’t mean allowing murderers and rapists to continue their slaughter while we work out the solution to their grievances.

  262. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 12:59 pm

    as long as it doesn’t mean allowing murderers and rapists to continue their slaughter

    It has continued before, during and since our initial involvement. Perhaps we should look closer to home to fix our own problem before dictating to others about theirs?

    Are you comfortable with the measures here?
    So, do you support the recent expansion of powers?

    I’m not bothered by the very visible use of the police.

    Even though it has done nothing but to ramp up hysteria nad drive anyone remotely linked underground, making surveillance even harder?

  263. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 2:08 pm

    It has continued before, during and since our initial involvement. Perhaps we should look closer to home to fix our own problem before dictating to others about theirs?

    I think it would be unbelievably inhumane and irresponsible if we knew that people we had previously offered a better life and “democracy” were being raped, enslaved , murdered, compulsorily converted in culture… and we decided our best approach was to “fix our own problem”

    I don’t think we are “dictating” either. Last I heard the Iraqi government had invited us to assist, and I don’t think the Kurds are objecting to some assistance.

    So, do you support the recent expansion of powers?

    If you’re referring to the proposed changes to security legislation, as I’ve already explained – no.

    ”Even though it has done nothing but to ramp up hysteria nad drive anyone remotely linked underground, making surveillance even harder?

    I don’t know whether that’s the case, but if criminals are engaging in criminal actions and planning crimes, I have no problem with visible policing. I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that current laws are sufficient for dealing these criminal types.

  264. TB Queensland permalink
    October 26, 2014 3:30 pm

    To take a liberty with your comment, ToM …

    I think it would be unbelievably inhumane and irresponsible if we knew that people we had previously offered a better life and “democracy” were being killed by Ebola in their thousand, men, women and children … and we decided our best approach was to “fix our own problem”

    And BTW we interfered with their culture centuries ago to no avail (read up on the great* British Empire) and … you can’t “offer” democracy … people have to want it … and do something about it themselves …

    The problem with the IS upsurge of young thugs (led by older arseholes) is that its a M/E problem that we didn’t cause … its been simmering between the Shi’ite and Sunni factions for centuries … it is a civil war …

    The only people to fix this are the Muslim countries in the region … I’m still waiting to see actual military boots on the ground from any Muslim country other than Iraq or Syria …

    We are not the world’s police force … that’s part of the problem the Muslim countries will stand back and let us do their fighting for them … it doesn’t work that way (not successfully for us anyway) …

    How ironic it would be that after all the hand wringing you found out that it was all a ploy to lure the western nations into a massive M/E war … with the Muslim nations?

    Don’t feed the trolls, or, IS propaganda …

  265. October 26, 2014 4:23 pm

    I spent yesterday in Gloucester in the Hunter with locals and concerned people opposed to the CSG fracking wells. I was completely shocked and appalled.

    1 500- 600 meteres from houses
    2 < 50 meters from the Avon River
    3 Located on a flood plane
    What country are we living in?

    This is insane. This mine is owned by a Chinese company and operated by AGL who have Haliburton as their operating contractors. Security guards patrolling the town, No stopping signs on a country dead end road. Riot squads to control peaceful middle class people being bullied into this heinous environmental vandalism. Video taping and following us when they pinned we had camera's.
    Citizens.. I cannot in all due conscious watch this stand. I love this country and I will fight this just fight, that I promise you.

  266. TB Queensland permalink
    October 26, 2014 5:15 pm

    Onya, RP, I have concerns over fracking (always have had) … I wrote the first Extract and Compress learning and assessment documents … (nationally recognised) so I know a little bit about it … not so much the fracking that came along afterwards …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    ToM, this might slow down some of those recruits to IS!

    THE Islamic State is not a real Caliphate. It has a priest-king. It has large chunks of the holy land. But are its blessed warriors destined to become eunuchs?

    http://www.news.com.au/world/eunuchs-academics-state-islamic-state-isis-cannot-be-a-new-caliphate-without-introducing-a-cruel-cut/story-fndir2ev-1227102510944

  267. TB Queensland permalink
    October 26, 2014 5:21 pm

    Maybe Egypt will get off its arse and do something?

    http://www.news.com.au/world/egypt-declares-state-of-emergency-after-suicide-bombing-claims-30-soldiers-lives/story-fndir2ev-1227102700666

    … just another reason for the ADF to stay off the ground … it would be like climbing an active volcano and telling everyone its safe …

  268. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 5:53 pm

    How ironic it would be that after all the hand wringing you found out that it was all a ploy to lure the western nations into a massive M/E war … with the Muslim nations?

    How ironic it would be if ISIS (or some variation) compulsorily converted culture, slaughtered and raped those that were not of their specific persuasion and violent orientation…and we stood around thinking that we shouldn’t bother to do anything.

    ”(read up on the great* British Empire)

    Yeah, right TB, do you honestly think I need your advice to read up on the British Empire? Gratuitous

  269. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 6:29 pm

    I think it would be unbelievably inhumane and irresponsible if we knew that people we had previously offered a better life and “democracy” were being raped, enslaved , murdered, compulsorily converted in culture… and we decided our best approach was to “fix our own problem”

    Wow, talk about misrepresenting someone. Perhaps we should look closer to home to fix our own problem before dictating to others about theirs?

    But just like you to try and twist it. Perhaps you really are better off taking TB’s advice.

  270. TB Queensland permalink
    October 26, 2014 6:48 pm

    Gratuitous? … nuh

    If you know just what “The Empire” was and did to other countries then I’m surprised at some of the things you are saying …

    I seem to get the impression that what you advocate is sending Australian troops into a civil war that they have just left in Afghanisatan and is even more convoluted in IRAQ/Syria …

    … a mess caused by politicians not the ADF – some of the best soldiers in the world … to play policeman … again … in a place where that doesn’t work … where the “locals” don’t even think the way you do and see Westerners as invaders …

  271. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 7:03 pm

    Fine Tom R, who are we “dictating” to?

    Do you think addressing “grievances” will prevent genocide?

    Should we assist the Kurds defend Kobani, or just leave them?

    TB – “I seem to get the impression that what you advocate is sending Australian troops into a civil war that they have just left in Afghanisatan and is even more convoluted in IRAQ/Syria

    Your impression is wrong or you might point out where I have advocated sending in troops.

    I think you might find the Iraqi government has requested assistance, in rectifying the problem we helped create. YOu seem willing to walk away.

  272. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 7:22 pm

    who are we “dictating” to?

    Well, the Iraqis and Afghanis for a start.

  273. TB Queensland permalink
    October 26, 2014 7:23 pm

    I think you might find the Iraqi government has requested assistance, in rectifying the problem we helped create. YOu seem willing to walk away.

    Not at all … what we are doing is what I advocated at the very beginning … before any political decisions had been made by Obama and co … including The Abbott …

    I’ve always said air attacks no boots on the ground unless they are Muslim boots … its really quite simple …

    I simply do not believe that we should have ANY Australian troops on the ground … we already have SF troops as advisors …

    … having lived through the VN war I recall our initial involvement began with “advisors” in 1962 we withdrew all our troops in 1972 … think Australia is up for NS again?

    And by the way “we” didn’t create them John Howard with assistance from GW Bush created them … many of us said Gulf War II was illegal and I for one still believe it was … and Bush, Blair and Howard should be charged with war crimes …

    Now what more do you suggest?

  274. TB Queensland permalink
    October 26, 2014 7:26 pm

    I think you might find the Iraqi government has requested assistance, in rectifying the problem we helped create.

    And I’m not so sure about the invite? How long did it take? Although I did hear that is was the Septic Tanks that held up the approval for our SF to enter Iraq … the US of A didn’t want the ADF to have “direct” contact with the Iraqi military … I wonder why?

  275. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 8:41 pm

    And I’m not so sure about the invite?

    yep, the wests puppet gubmint finally (after much pleading from the west) finally ‘invites’ us over there.

    Why do I smell bullshit?

  276. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 8:48 pm

    ”Well, the Iraqis and Afghanis for a start.

    We’re dictating to the Iraqis? How exactly? There I was thinking their government requested us to help.

    And by the way “we” didn’t create them John Howard with assistance from GW Bush created them …

    “we” might elect governments that make decisions “we” oppose, ethical people don’t walk away form the bad decisions governments make on our behalf, “we” try to correct them.

  277. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 8:51 pm

    ”the wests puppet gubmint

    What?? They finally get the broadly based government that Obama has been pushing and it’s a “puppet”!!??

  278. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 8:58 pm

    Like you were advised earlier yomm, get some learnin’

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-19/us-slams-its-former-iraq-puppet-maliki-government-candidly-has-got-go

  279. Tom R permalink
    October 26, 2014 8:59 pm

    Just cos I can 🙂

  280. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 9:06 pm

    So the former government was a puppet? Or is the current one?

  281. TB Queensland permalink
    October 26, 2014 9:18 pm

    ... “we” try to correct them. …

    No “we” don’t … “the ADF” do – if your so keen, sign up for the green machine …

    Or do you have a non-military solution to IRAQ’s problem?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  282. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 9:27 pm

    I don’t have a non fighting answer to the immediate risk of genocide. Where people are being raped, murdered and forcibly culturally converted, the immediate risk is the one I seek to have addressed urgently.

    But somehow you and Tom R seem to be of the orientation that addressing the immediate risk of genocide and the loner term aim of grievance resolution is mutually exclusive. I don’t think it is.

    Grievance resolution requires rational behaviour and a willingness to compromise.

    TB, who is it in ISIS that has shown this willingness?

  283. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 26, 2014 9:28 pm

    TB, the ADF sign up for a job, if they were conscripts I’d concede the point 100%

  284. Tom R permalink
    October 27, 2014 7:43 am

    I don’t have a non fighting answer

    I don’t either, I just believe (going on previous outcomes) that bombing (effectively) indiscriminately is not an answer.

  285. Tom R permalink
    October 27, 2014 7:47 am

    So the former government was a puppet? Or is the current one?

    Is there a difference? Maliki resigned but put his people in place. Nothing has changed

  286. Tom R permalink
    October 27, 2014 7:50 am

    More examples of libs ignoring their own megaphone lectures from opposition. Let’s see the media ramp this one up to eleventy?

    The Abbott government will ignore Commonwealth value-for-money rules on official real estate as it forces the Australian Taxation Office to spend millions on new offices in regional NSW.

    The ATO has confirmed there has been no business case or cost-benefit analysis, as required by the Finance Department’s rules, for the plan to build a 6500-square-metre office block in downtown Gosford on the state’s central coast.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/public-service/abbott-government-rips-up-the-rulebook-for-the-atos-new-building-20141026-11ah00.html

  287. Tom R permalink
    October 27, 2014 8:16 am

    Would the gubmint have balls big enough to try this on? (yes, that was a redundant question)

    Labor says the government will be breaking an election promise if it considers means testing the childcare rebate, but stopped short of ruling out the measure itself.

    …..

    “The Australian public is entitled to say that this is just another occasion where Tony Abbott has directly lied.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/26/labor-challenges-coalition-over-means-tests-for-childcare-rebate

    If they do, will hear cries of “class warfare” and poor little rich kids struggling with their hotel accommodation for the holidays?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-12/cowgill—typical-aussie-income/2614076

  288. TB Queensland permalink
    October 27, 2014 9:06 am

    TB, the ADF sign up for a job, if they were conscripts I’d concede the point 100%

    But they didn’t sign up to throw their lives away on a fool’s folly …

    Get a copy of Blackhawk Down – I’m sure you’ve seen it … but watch again and then again for the detail …

    Then get a copy of Lone Survivor …

    These films are based on real situations … and to finish off the trio … get a copy of once were soldiers …

    Going to war is never ever simple …

  289. TB Queensland permalink
    October 27, 2014 10:13 am

    Ooops … We Were Soldiers …

  290. Tom R permalink
    October 27, 2014 10:24 am

    But Once Were Warriors was also a very good movie TB 😉

  291. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 27, 2014 12:18 pm

    I think you might find the Iraqi government has requested assistance, in rectifying the problem we helped create. YOu seem willing to walk away.

    Last i heard, they wanted assistance but specifically stated they did not want foreign troops on the ground. Has it now changed?

    Diplomatic solutions appear to be the last option for our gung ho warriors when it comes to meddling in the ME and their warmongering with and on behalf of Israel.
    Just think of what addressing historic inequalities, grievances, the palestinian genocide and continued US meddling would do.
    Spreading and selling a deranged western version of corporate democracy by bomb throughout the globe has become a western jihad in itself.

    How America Made ISIS:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-engelhardt/how-america-made-isis_b_5751876.html

    …Looking back, it’s hard not to think of all of this as a kind of American jihadism, as well as an attempt to establish what might have been considered an American caliphate in the region (though Washington had far kinder descriptive terms for it). In the process, the U.S. effectively dismantled and destroyed state power in each of the three main countries in which it intervened, while ensuring the destabilization of neighboring countries and finally the region itself…

    …When the U.S. was done, when it had set off the process that led to insurgencies, civil wars, the growth of extremist militias, and the collapse of state structures, it had also guaranteed the rise of something new on Planet Earth: ISIS — as well as of other extremist outfits ranging from the Pakistani Taliban, now challenging the state in certain areas of that country, to Ansar al-Sharia in Libya and al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen…

    …The American record in these last 13 years is a shameful one. Do it again should not be an option…

  292. TB Queensland permalink
    October 27, 2014 3:54 pm

    Best to leave well (bad) enough alone … KL?

    The irony is that the USA’s policy between WWI and WWII was to accuse the British and French in particular but Europe in general of imperialism … oh, how the wheel turns …

    Having said that, IS, is just bunch of out of control thugs with high powered weapons and nasty behaviour … and I suspect would have popped up sooner or later anyway …

    The concept of “converting” countries to “democracy” may be altruistic to some but it cannot be forced …

    Bit like any religious belief … eventually most people will figure the desperation of people attempting to make a global belief … it don’t stack up to logical scrutiny …

    I’m still waiting for Muslim boots and rifles … talk is cheap!

  293. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 27, 2014 4:41 pm

    AO, I don’t think anyone here has suggested “boots on the ground “

  294. TB Queensland permalink
    October 27, 2014 5:50 pm

    ToM, so what exactly ARE you suggesting? ❓

  295. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 27, 2014 5:55 pm

    I’m surprised TB that you haven’t read my posts. I’m suggesting that what we’re currently doing seems about the correct balance.

  296. October 27, 2014 6:53 pm

    “what we’re currently doing seems about the correct balance.”

    You mean the “humanitarian bombing?”

    Is that what we call “the correct balance” between killing them and helping them..?

  297. October 27, 2014 6:57 pm

    I am bemused by the concentration on the (admittedly relevant) foreign intervention.

    It is a(n) (il)logical distraction from what is being enacted upon us here at home…under the banner of FearSquirting.

    The most disturbing thing about our ‘international obligations’ is that, if taken as verbatim, they are a nexus for increasing,/I> the threat domestically; which is being used as a rationalisation for what they’re trying to encumber an entire population (Australia), far removed from the Middle East, with -manipulative-snooping shit.
    Hardly surprising, but the ease with which it is being achieved is unsettling. Even for me.

    I think, personally, any notion of our (subsequent) involvement in Iraq Mk3 is a separate argument; of which I’m torn between both TB’s & YomM’s opinions. And, of course, KL’s links.

    At the end of the day, we are being fucked over by cynical fearmongers…and I’m not entirely sure that these types of laws aren’t just a way to legislate a strangulation of the internet & ‘piracy’ of sorts; by stealth. Given that the people invading our online world’s have absolutely no oversight or accountability & are also ostensibly given legal immunity from crimes committed, under the shroud of Secret Intelligence Operations. The implications are Gigantic; and not that difficult to surmise.

  298. October 27, 2014 7:00 pm

    stupid italics…

    I blame shitaly!

  299. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 27, 2014 7:20 pm

    …and I’m not entirely sure that these types of laws aren’t just a way to legislate a strangulation of the internet & ‘piracy’ of sorts; by stealth. Given that the people invading our online world’s have absolutely no oversight or accountability & are also ostensibly given legal immunity from crimes committed, under the shroud of Secret Intelligence Operations. The implications are Gigantic; and not that difficult to surmise.

    That’s exactly what they’re doing toilet. Propaganda = Liberals. Ramp up the fearmongering, have the population scared shitless of a drummed up threat with xenophobia and demonisation of a minority thrown in and then implement all your fascist, anti public protest, anti privacy, anti human rights & civil disobedience wet dream legislation under the cover of national security.

    There’s a reason that the liberals have always had a great affection for the nazis, they style themselves upon them.

  300. TB Queensland permalink
    October 27, 2014 7:47 pm

    I don’t have a non fighting answer to the immediate risk of genocide. Where people are being raped, murdered and forcibly culturally converted, the immediate risk is the one I seek to have addressed urgently. ToM…

    non-fighting means …. fighting … by whom exactly …

    I’m surprised TB that you haven’t read my posts. I’m suggesting that what we’re currently doing seems about the correct balance.

    I’m surprised you haven’t read mine … I’ve consistently said bombs no boots other than Muslim …

    Do we agree, then?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Ramp up the fearmongering, have the population scared shitless of a drummed up threat …

    And keep ’em coming … the latest is a “another look” at the GST …

    FYI, age pensioners who receive income from an income based super pension (ie a regular income say monthly or quarterly) … if they sign up for one after 01/01/2015 will have that income deemed by the government by a random (guessed) percentage and this will count towards the income test for the age pension …

    … anyone who has signed up for an income based super pension before 1st Jan will not be affected IF they are eligible for the pension … we have a very narrow window to take advantage – The Minister turns 65, on, 13/12/14 …

    Sneaky little monastery The Abbott runs, hey?

  301. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 27, 2014 8:07 pm

    What Makes Them Tick: Inside The Mind Of The Abbott Government:
    https://www.newmatilda.com/2014/10/26/what-makes-them-tick-inside-mind-abbott-government

    …In a world of increasing egalitarianism the conservative position can make for a hard sell. Politicians with an agenda as conservative as the Abbott Government’s can’t to go to the polls wearing their manifesto on their sleeves. “We promise to preserve and intensify privilege, entrench disadvantage and wind back egalitarian change, putting a halt to its further spread.”

    As a result, in order to gain power conservative political parties are compelled to sugar-coat their agenda to be palatable in a putatively egalitarian world. A conservative stock-in-trade to this end is what political scientists call ‘legitmising myths’, or ideologies that justify discrimination against disadvantaged groups.

    Legitimising myths typically appeal to fear, which increases political conservatism; scarcity, which increases competition between social groups; and stereotypes, which smooth the way for discrimination against less privileged members of a society. For instance, “Burqa-wearing women are potential terrorists who threaten our safety and our way of life” is a myth that appeals to all three.

    While the Abbott Government relied more heavily on lies than myth-making on its way to the election, since gaining office Abbott and his ministers have had a crack at a few legitimising myths of their own…

  302. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 27, 2014 8:27 pm

    I’d have thought targeted bombing is military action and fighting. It’s hardly passive resistance.

    Co-ordinating this with the Kurdish forces qualifies as ‘fighting’ too.

  303. October 27, 2014 8:37 pm

    “I’d have thought targeted bombing is military action and fighting.”

    Me too. I’m still struggling to comprehend what part of “military air strikes” constitutes a “humanitarian effort” but then what would I know… 😯

  304. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 27, 2014 8:46 pm

    …I don’t have a non fighting answer to the immediate risk of genocide. Where people are being raped, murdered and forcibly culturally converted…

    Do you also advocate for our intervention in the congo, pakistan, somalia, the palestine/israel conflict, burma, tibet, india, afghanistan [again]?

    There is much brutality and barbarism as well as inequality in those places. The most dangerous countries to be women too. Plenty of work to do all over the world if you’ve got a passion for humanitarian action.

  305. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 27, 2014 9:00 pm

    ”Do you also advocate for our intervention in the congo, pakistan, somalia, the palestine/israel conflict, burma, tibet, india, afghanistan [again]?”

    Which of those has our government militarily intervened, overthrown the existing government, claimed victory, then promised a better life and “democracy”

    Anywhere that meets those criteria I’ll advocate a return in circumstances where violent, raping, murdering, expansionist religious nutcases take substantial parts of the country.

  306. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 27, 2014 9:03 pm

    “There is much brutality and barbarism as well as inequality in those places.

    …and by the way, I think the murder, rape, genocide looks more like Rwanda a couple of decades ago than the places you nominated, and I think it is shameful that most of the world stood by and watched that.

  307. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 27, 2014 9:10 pm

    …and I’ll keep going…

    I think it is a spurious argument that goes along the lines – “if we help stop genocide in Iraq, what reason do we have for not stopping rape and murder in India & Pakistan? And why don’t we send troops to protect the people in Gaza? And someone was raped and murdered in Chicago last week. Why aren’t we bothered about the rape and murder in Chicago?

    To me… the “setting a precedent” argument is just bulls**t

  308. TB Queensland permalink
    October 27, 2014 9:13 pm

    ToM, your altruistic intent is admirable … however, you must know that what you desire is nigh on impossible …

    And … as has been pointed out, a bigger threat to the world’s population is, actually, ebola …

    … Rwanda most of the world stood by and watched that

    Most of the world stands by and watches the USA/UK/FR/DL/ND/AUS deal with most of the world’s problems … time for the rich Muslim nations, the South American countries, Russia and China to step up … oh, wait … that could cause problems …

    … something like that happened in 1914 and later in 1939 … not a nice time for millions of innocents I believe …

  309. TB Queensland permalink
    October 27, 2014 9:15 pm

    To me… the “setting a precedent” argument is just bulls**t

    You think we should invade Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?

  310. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 27, 2014 9:45 pm

    …I’m still struggling to comprehend what part of “military air strikes” constitutes a “humanitarian effort” but then what would I know…

    “humanitarian effort” is the war you have when you won’t call it war, when you know you’re on shaky ground and the public is not terribly supportive of what you want to do.
    When you want the public to think you’re saving lives instead of creating more dead, dying and disabled people.

    Nobody ever wants to say ‘war’ anymore!

    To me… the “setting a precedent” argument is just bulls**t

    You prefer selective humanity, some lives have more value than others, we only have to care about peoples lives when we share responsibility for their plight.

    http://antonyloewenstein.com/2014/10/15/triple-r-radio-interview-on-war-isis-and-failing-war-experts/

  311. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 27, 2014 9:59 pm

    No, I prefer to prevent actual genocide, particularly in circumtances where our actions have created the opportunity for the murderous nutcases

  312. Tom R permalink
    October 28, 2014 7:46 am

    particularly in circumtances where our actions have created the opportunity for the murderous nutcases

    And yet we are doing the same stupid shit again, and somehow expecting a different outcome. That is why I don’t agree (anymore) with these airstrikes. They are a proven failure, which does nothing but further alienate the people on the ground.

    From my all encompassing view from my armchair, I really don’t know the answer, although I get the feeling it lies with Kurds, and further re-arranging of borders. But borders re-arranged by the locals, not us.

    But that in itself may prove to be unachievable

  313. Tom R permalink
    October 28, 2014 7:52 am

    What a sanctimoniousness little fuckwit

    After years of blunt posturing, the winning ugly school of deal-making is making a subtle but important comeback.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/dr-no-tony-abbott-emerging-as-more-of-a-dr-maybe-20141027-11ccyv.html#ixzz3HJUk8uwc

    He highlights rudd ( aho had some high profile cases of NOT negotiating)m and lists some cses where yabot “might” negotiate. Of course, he falis to highlight that this is because Labor is willing to negotiate, unlike yabot in opposition, and misses entirely the Gillard Government, who was renowned for “winning ugly”.

    It’s like he has deliberately painted over that period of history and declared the entire Labor year as one of no compromise, with barely an indication of the intransigence of the yabot opposition.

    History being re-written as we watch

  314. Tom R permalink
    October 28, 2014 8:26 am

    I see barnie got busted yesterday for lying

  315. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 28, 2014 10:08 am

    I think I might join the LDP.

    At least they understand the virtues of markets. The left showed us their alternative to markets last century. Their command economies brought poverty, misery and death to hundreds of millions of people.

  316. TB Queensland permalink
    October 28, 2014 10:23 am

    Their command economies brought poverty, misery and death to hundreds of millions of people.

    Unlike capitalism … I suppose … *

    There is case for a hybrid of command/capitalist economies (I shy away from using the term “free market” – ’tis an oxymoron)

    * as just one – fer instance – how many died to protect oil supplies for the Western Alliance … ? Is the illicit drug industry capitalism? Tobacco? Alcohol? Asbestos? Gambling?

    Its clever to stay focussed but not too narrow a focus … 🙂

    Just sayin’ …

  317. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 28, 2014 10:29 am

    …Alcohol?…

    No doubt wine would be cheaper and of a far better quality if it’s quality and production was determined by the government

  318. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 28, 2014 10:33 am

    “That is why I don’t agree (anymore) with these airstrikes. They are a proven failure, which does nothing but further alienate the people on the ground.”

    Maybe ask the Kurds whether they want the air support to stop, I suspect they are grateful and that it has helped their defence of Kobani. While it may not succeed, it appears to have slowed the attack of the murderous nutcases on that city.

  319. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 28, 2014 11:55 am

    By allowing markets to function hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of abject poverty. No other system has come close. Command economies have impoverished hundreds of millions of people.

    The role of government is to set up a system which enables markets to function. This involves not only the basics like contract and property laws, but also laws against anti-competitive behaviour.

    There is no such thing as a perfect market. The state has a role in preventing market abuses. There will always be debate over the limits of government intervention. It seems to me that one lot can’t grasp the idea that there should be limits at all and the other doesn’t understand that too much regulation can be destructive.

    There is a role for governments in providing public goods and services. The first role of the state is to ensure that it can continue to exist. Thereafter, as a society become better off there is scope forfurther public expenditure. The debate here is around how much can be devoted to this purpose without destroying the very system that provides the wherewithal to pay for the benefits.

  320. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 28, 2014 12:20 pm

    Shorten has just said we do not want a USA health system.

    It caused me to wonder.

    What is the Russian health system?

    What is the Chinese health system?

    Seems to me we are better than most. Most Arabs with money go to the USA when they have health problems.

    THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY IS A CORRUPT AND IMMORAL POLITICAL PARTY ELECTED BY CORRUPT AND IMMORAL PEOPLE

  321. October 28, 2014 12:44 pm

    Just fuck off Nils.. you fucking uppity muppit…same old shit you brain dead trolling fucktard

    I’ll see your corrupt and raise you reality..

  322. October 28, 2014 12:45 pm

    Just fuck off Nils.. you fucking uppity muppit…same old shit you brain dead trolling fucktard
    I’ll see your corrupt and raise you reality..

  323. October 28, 2014 12:46 pm

    Changing the Hansard? like all corrupt dictators do

  324. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 28, 2014 1:08 pm

    “THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY IS A CORRUPT AND IMMORAL POLITICAL PARTY ELECTED BY CORRUPT AND IMMORAL PEOPLE”

    Neil, that doesn’t make much sense, even as a slogan.

    Labor isn’t ‘elected’ as such except in SA. Attacking people who vote Labor as corrupt and immoral suggests you are long on invective and short on thought.

    Finally, if you look at the ‘elected’ party in NSW, there are about 10 of them gone after exposure at ICAC. And if you believe things are getting better, that the reacketeers are being driven out, you might like to explain the involvement of Photias and Campbell in recent pre-selection battles. Corrupt as it ever was, I think, and lobbyists are still preselecting ‘suitable’ candidates. Guess where that ends up?

  325. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 28, 2014 1:23 pm

    I am talking about the final outcome.

    Whitlam, Hawke/keating, Rudd/Gillard.

    The only good govt on the above list was Hawke. The rest were a disaster.

    The Labor Party make o good Opposition but they are hopeless in govt.

  326. TB Queensland permalink
    October 28, 2014 4:41 pm

    So The Abbott Canberra Monastery has got rid of the Carbon Tax and replaced another carbon tax in its place …

    swings – roundabouts and slippery, slippery slides …

    Mr Shorten took aim at Mr Abbott over the government bypassing the Senate to raise petrol taxes, which is expected to cost an average household about 40¢ a week by the end of 2014-15.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/whos-the-boss-tony-abbotts-awkward-slip-of-the-tongue/story-fncynjr2-1227104976198

  327. TB Queensland permalink
    October 28, 2014 4:49 pm

    There is a role for governments in providing public goods and services.

    You don’t mean a hybrid of the two major economies, sb? 🙄

    The debate here is around how much can be devoted to this purpose without destroying the very system that provides the wherewithal to pay for the benefits.

    And that applies to either system … as you say no system is perfect … because of people …

    Extremes of both will kill them … my concern is that capitalism is being choked just as surely any corrupt command system …

    ================================================

    THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY IS A CORRUPT AND IMMORAL POLITICAL PARTY ELECTED BY CORRUPT AND IMMORAL PEOPLE

    Say something intelligent or fuck off, Kneel!

    ================================================

    Petrol prices will rise next month with the federal government announcing plans to increase the tax on fuel despite not having parliamentary approval for the measure.

    Time to do a Fraser and stop supply … oh, wait another Liberal supporter in the GG role … and Shorten wouldn’t have the balls anyway … have to be the next election … the adverts are going to be creative, I’ll bet …

  328. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 28, 2014 4:52 pm

    There is something very wrong with governments collecting taxes before they legislate them. The whole idea of having a parliament is to make laws and for the government to implement them. This government is completely fucked.

  329. TB Queensland permalink
    October 28, 2014 4:59 pm

    I’ve just been to see “Fury” …

    Margaret & David’s review was pretty accurate I reckon … (I don’t always)

    http://www.abc.net.au/atthemovies/txt/s4109070.htm

    The Minister ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ 1/2

    TB ⭐ ⭐ 1/2

    BTW … larn up on them southern US accents … bloody hard to understand what they are sayin’ half the time … having said – there is a crewman with a Mexican background so most you will understand him …

  330. TB Queensland permalink
    October 28, 2014 5:00 pm

    This government is completely fucked.

    This Parliament is fucked, sb …

  331. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 28, 2014 5:03 pm

    “This government is completely fucked.”

    And what is your alternative?

    ALP/Greens??

  332. TB Queensland permalink
    October 28, 2014 5:22 pm

    And what is your alternative?

    ALP/Greens??

    A house and senate full free thinking/intelligent/practical people would be a change … actually that’s at least an intelligent question (even tho’ it was meant sarcastically) …

  333. October 28, 2014 5:37 pm

  334. October 28, 2014 6:16 pm

  335. TB Queensland permalink
    October 28, 2014 6:49 pm

    Tony Abbott was born in London in 1957 and came to Australia in 1960 as an assisted migrant. He applied for Australian citizenship in 1981,

    Not sure about this … because … I was born in 1947, family emigrated in 1961 and my certificate of Citizenship is dated 1983 … and I don’t hold dual citizenship … something I personally detest BTW …

    For Abbott to hold dual citizenship he would have probably (don’t know) had to apply for British citizenship …

    On the other hand The Minister had to “declare” her Australian citizenship before she was 21 (then) because she was born in the Netherlands …

    Her certificate reads Declaratory Certificate of Citizenship … mine read … Certificate of Australian Citizenship …

    Not as cut and dried as it may seem, RP …

  336. TB Queensland permalink
    October 28, 2014 6:55 pm

    I hope my taxes didn’t pay for this …

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/liberals-in-bronze-tribute-to-menzies/story-e6frfku9-1227105151187

  337. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 28, 2014 7:00 pm

    I was listening to PM on ABC earlier, there was some discussion about international gender equality rankings.

    Several pointed out methodology problems given that The Philippines and Rwanda ranked above Australia.

    Eva Cox ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Cox ) commented that there was a problem with Australia’s Parental Leave scheme, as it is “not related to work or income”

    It is an interesting observation, just as our current excessively modest scheme is applauded by left types, and the Abbott scheme looks more like the types that used to be advocated by the women’s lobby.

  338. Tom R permalink
    October 28, 2014 7:47 pm

    Maybe ask the Kurds whether they want the air support to stop, I suspect they are grateful and that it has helped their defence of Kobani. While it may not succeed, it appears to have slowed the attack of the murderous nutcases on that city.

    All possibly, probably true. But, ask the people on the ground getting pulverised, many who turn out to be the people we are supposedly “freeing” from isis, and who will go on to perhaps join isis as all they have seen of help from the west is at the end of a warhead disintegrating their families.

    This is how isis got many of their fighters now. As has been said repeatedly, this is a fight that must be won on the ground. However, I fear that the west has spent themselves there fighting their previous Iraq quagmire. So the answer I cannot see. But more bombs I feel is not it.

    Shorten has just said we do not want a USA health system.

    ……………

    Seems to me we are better than most

    Exactly. So why would we want a USA health system?

    There is something very wrong with governments collecting taxes before they legislate them.

    Understatement of the day SB. How much will we owe the petrol companies should it not get legislated. Mind you, win win for yabot. He would consider the commonwealth paying the petrol companies directly a major win 😦

  339. October 28, 2014 7:53 pm

    “It seems to me that one lot can’t grasp the idea that there should be limits at all and the other doesn’t understand that too much regulation can be destructive. ”

    I reckon that’s about the crux of it!

  340. Tom R permalink
    October 28, 2014 8:07 pm

    and the other doesn’t understand that too much regulation can be destructive.

    Tell it to the insulation installers

  341. Tom R permalink
    October 28, 2014 8:10 pm

    and the Abbott scheme looks more like the types that used to be advocated by the women’s lobby.

    But not one advocated by people who are aware of the limitation of Government coffers, and the role of “welfare’.

  342. October 28, 2014 8:59 pm

  343. October 28, 2014 9:20 pm

  344. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 29, 2014 3:33 am

    Talk about being blind

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/no-evidence-boat-turnbacks-are-working-says-captain-idiot-bill-shorten/story-fni0cx12-1227105325090

    FACING claims he has been “bullied” by the left of the Labor Party, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has suggested that there is no evidence to show turnbacks work despite illegal boat arrivals stopping

  345. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 8:04 am

    lol Ricky, even yabots getting in on the wordy games (very badly too)

    Challenged during question time about how the decision fitted with pre-election promises not to raise taxes, Tony Abbott said it was “not a new tax, it’s the indexation of an old one”

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/28/coalitions-22bn-fuel-tax-gamble-risks-car-crash-with-the-senate

    Sorry tony old mate, but even if it is existing, it’s still being raised, something you told us adolts don’t need to do 😉

    Meanwhile, will this GREAT BIG NEW TAX really be the end of Whyalla?

    Increasing fuel excise charges places greater pressure on business and is anti-growth.
    Business understands the government’s challenge to balance the budget and supports many measures to cut spending and return to surplus.

    However, there is very little reason to raise fuel excise, which already far outstretches spending on roads, other than to increase consolidated revenues.

    http://www.acci.asn.au/Research-and-Publications/Media-Centre/Media-Releases-and-Transcripts/Fuel-Excise-Rises-Put-Pressure-on-Business

    Or is it just a “python squeeze”?

  346. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 8:11 am

    Interesting that nils link left out what Shorten actually said as an explanation.

    “And furthermore when we look at what has effectively helped discourage the people smugglers the origin of the success of this measure is in Labor’s regional resettlement negotiations and regional processing.’’

    http://m.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/bill-shorten-says-labor-will-not-support-boat-turnback-policy/story-fn9hm1gu-1227104729297?nk=4b8f621e7ecf0e918261d82ef7b7b05c

    What’s their byline “some of the news, all of the time”? ROFL

    Gillard knows what they’re about

    Former Prime Minister Julia Gillard has accused Rupert Murdoch’s newspapers of bias and inaccuracy, expressing concern about a lack of diverse political coverage in Australia.

    http://www.afr.com/p/business/companies/julia_gillard_blasts_biased_murdoch_5k8xNbdOVrApAnfano2CNM

  347. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 9:17 am

    So, yabot wants a “mature debate” on taxation, and begins by forcing through a GREAT BIG NEW TAX without any debate whatsoever. Will the media hang him out to dry? Of course, that might expose their own ineptness too date, so I won’t be holding my breath.

  348. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 9:27 am

    It appears our unbiased speaker is quite happy with her ‘team’ lying and then covering up the lie

    Hansard had been changed to correct an error Joyce made last week regarding the government’s drought assistance package. In the address, Joyce referred to “over” 4,000 people applying for drought assistance. His office corrected that to read “nearly” 4,000. They also added a qualifier line that wasn’t originally in the speech, saying that “recipient[s] of the Interim Farm Household Allowance” would also receive the assistance.

    The changes made by Joyce’s office have now been erased from the Hansard records.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/28/speaker-refuses-to-investigate-altering-of-hansard-by-barnaby-joyces-office

  349. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 9:28 am

    Not that I think this will have any effect, but ……..

    http://www.nodebtsentence.org/

  350. October 29, 2014 9:30 am

    “Former Prime Minister Julia Gillard has accused Rupert Murdoch’s newspapers of bias and inaccuracy, expressing concern about a lack of diverse political coverage in Australia.”

    Is she still complaining and playing the victim, blaming everything and everyone for her demise except herself?

    At the risk of repeating myself, News Corp has every right to be biased. They are a private company, and can push any barrow they like.

    The ABC, on the other hand, is funded by all taxpayers, and so has a duty to be unbiased.

  351. TB Queensland permalink
    October 29, 2014 9:46 am

    At the risk of repeating myself, News Corp has every right to be biased. They are a private company, and can push any barrow they like.

    And that’s exactly why News Ltd should not be able to own 70% of the media in Australia. No one should …

    Ya can’t have yer cake and eat it … problem with the LNP and its supporters is they don’t like ANY competition and ignore what rules there are in place … just check this thread … Robber Barons send in the cavalry when anyone disagrees with them … or steamrollers …

    As for the constant call to remove the ABC because its biased that’s pure and simple politics … by the LNP …

    Democracy is dead in this (and other western countries) its just a game for the rich and powerful … fuel taxes paid to the fkn oil companies GMAFB!

    News Corp has every right to be biased

    You mean you condone deceit, cheating and lying? Murdoch probably owns The catholic Leader too …

  352. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 9:48 am

    The libs partaking in “mature debate”

    “Release the modelling because we know the Labor Party form,” Mr Hockey says.

    The carbon tax, there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead, then they introduced a carbon tax and now we know the GST that they’re so concerned about the Labor Party in fact modelled not once but on numerous occasions.”

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/coalition-demands-labor-release-gst-modelling-20141028-11d32t.html

    But the numbers they want are interesting. Labor are right to drag this out.

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Treasurer Joe Hockey have demanded the opposition table old Treasury modelling showing an increase in the GST to 12.5 per cent would hit familes by more than $200 a fortnight.

  353. Walrus permalink
    October 29, 2014 10:00 am

    “”And that’s exactly why News Ltd should not be able to own 70% of the media in Australia.””

    And where exactly does that figure come from ?

  354. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 10:02 am

    At the risk of repeating myself, News Corp has every right to be biased.

    No they don’t. Their own charter forbids it. And the privileged access their existence as “journalists” allows also should prevent it.

  355. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 10:04 am

    The grubby whitehouse affair will not be let go by New Matilda, nor should it. It points to lobbying and corruption at the highest levels. No wonder the msm is disinterested. 😯

    It’s certainly open to question whether this section of the act has been complied with in the Frances Abbott affair. At the very least, the governing body has interfered with what would normally be an academic decision.

    It appears as though the academic board played no role in the offering of a scholarship to Frances Abbott.

    Did Frances Abbott formally apply for this scholarship, in a normal process, via normal procedures? The evidence suggests that she didn’t, and the Whitehouse Institute has not provided any that would shed further light on the scholarship’s merit. After all, there was no scholarship advertised, and the Whitehouse Institute website still maintains that “Whitehouse does not currently offer scholarships to gain a place into the Bachelor of Design.”

    Nor do the academic governors appear to have played any part in the single interview with Leanne Whitehouse that led to Frances Abbott’s scholarship offer. How much did Whitehouse’s Academic Board have to do with this matter? Did they even know? Is it time for the chair of the Academic Board, Andrew Gonczi, to explain what, if any, role he played?

    This background matters when we turn to the role of Freya Newman, the purported whistleblower whose actions led to the public disclosure of Frances Abbott’s subsidised education.

    …..

    The public interest in Frances Abbott’s scholarship is two-fold.

    In the first instance, the actions of the Whitehouse Institute appear, on its own rules, to be improper. The Whitehouse Institute is a beneficiary of public subsidy through FEE-HELP and is the subject of federal education law. The college’s actions in by-passing its own stated policy on scholarships have never been adequately explained, and its bluff denials of any wrong-doing are not credible.

    The broader public interest of the Frances Abbott scholarship goes to lobbying, and the many and varied ways that private interests seek to influence politicians and public officials.

    …..

    It is all too clear why a private college would wish to curry favour with the Prime Minister’s daughter.

    Australian higher education is currently experiencing the biggest policy shake-up in a generation. The Abbott government’s proposed changes, which break a stated 2013 election promise, will deregulate university fees and open up the higher education system to private providers like the Whitehouse Institute.

    Private colleges stand to gain hundreds of millions should Christopher Pyne’s legislative changes to higher education pass the Parliament.

    And we have evidence that Frances Abbott was used as a bargaining chip to lobby the Abbott government about higher education policy reform. Tony Abbott has attended two separate functions at the Whitehouse Institute, including the now-notorious December 2013 gala in which college owner Leanne Whitehouse made pointed remarks about the need to reduce TEQSA red-tape. “And yes, I am looking at you, Prime Minister,” sources say Whitehouse said.

    The Abbott government slashed funding to TEQSA, the tertiary regulator, in the budget in May.

    https://newmatilda.com/2014/10/28/unanswered-questions-hunt-freya-newman

    The full article is well worth the read.

  356. October 29, 2014 10:18 am

    “And that’s exactly why News Ltd should not be able to own 70% of the media in Australia.”

    They don’t own 70% of the mastheads, they have 70% (or something like that) of the circulation. Which says plenty about which newspapers people want to pay for.

  357. October 29, 2014 10:22 am

    “Their own charter forbids it.”

    Guffaw. Every newspaper picks a side in their election editorials – their readers expect it. Every newspaper publishes partisan columns every day. It’s up to the editor of each paper which ones go to press. News leans to the right, Fairfax leans to the left. None of this is controversial.

  358. October 29, 2014 10:25 am

    “problem with the LNP and its supporters is they don’t like ANY competition and ignore what rules there are in place … just check this thread … Robber Barons send in the cavalry when anyone disagrees with them … or steamrollers …”

    And who are the “Robber Barons” on this thread of which you speak? Name some names.

  359. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 10:26 am

    Every newspaper picks a side in their election editorials

    But the lies, mis-truths and omissions of facts go far deeper than ‘editorials’ tosy 😉

    http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/election-2013-newspapers.html

  360. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 10:27 am

    I also note that you didn’t argue about the statement “Their own charter forbids it” 😉

  361. October 29, 2014 10:29 am

    “But the lies, mis-truths and omissions of facts go far deeper than ‘editorials’ tosy”

    Yeah, yeah, I know. Murdoch! is evil personified.

  362. October 29, 2014 10:31 am

    “I also note that you didn’t argue about the statement “Their own charter forbids it”

    Oh, their own charter. I see. They forbid themselves, then. Will they punish themselves, too, if they break it?

  363. Walrus permalink
    October 29, 2014 10:37 am

    “Their own charter forbids it”

    Obviously you don’t read the papers. The Sydney Daily Terror is really giving it to the LNP over the petrol excise thingy today plus taking a good run up to kick Nova “the Captains Pick”” as well.

    Seems pretty even handed.

    You only see bias when the Media reports on ALP incompetence.

    How’s that “Turnback Policy “” going…………………..this morning ?

    I’ll ask again this afternoon

  364. ironicman permalink
    October 29, 2014 10:38 am

    Most importantly, 73% of Australians trust the ABC.

  365. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 29, 2014 10:41 am

    “But the lies, mis-truths and omissions of facts go far deeper than ‘editorials’ tosy “

    Yes, the ABC has much to answer for. It has a disproportionate share of media outlets around the country. Despite this it’s audience is more limited due to its unrelenting bias as it panders to its dumb leftist fanbase. The ABC is a classic case of the narcissistic intellectual elite thieving public resources for the pleasure of gazing into the mirror of their benighted leftism.

  366. October 29, 2014 10:48 am

    “And that’s exactly why News Ltd should not be able to own 70% of the media in Australia. No one should ….

    By far the biggest media outlet in Australia is the ABC.

  367. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 10:51 am

    It has a disproportionate share of media outlets around the country

    I think you will find that that is because the private ones don’t bother with regional.

    The Sydney Daily Terror is really giving it to the LNP over the petrol excise thingy today

    ROFL

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/

    Not a skerrick on the “thingy” All about Nova (whose in gubmint again?)

  368. ironicman permalink
    October 29, 2014 11:06 am

    ‘I think you will find that that is because the private ones don’t bother with regional.’

    We do have commercial radio and TV in the bush. My main concern is that aunty has been taken over by Trots and this problem needs rectifying.

  369. October 29, 2014 11:06 am

    Talk about being blind

    The telegraph quoting somebody hyperventilating opinion on SKY…

    And where exactly does that figure come from ?

    Reality but don’t worry that will fall when Murdoch karks and the unAustralian falls over
    Lets just hope he dies a horrible painful death before the next election …on which he has duly earned as an evil overlord.

    The grubby whitehouse affair will not be let go by New Matilda, nor should it. It points to lobbying and corruption at the highest levels. No wonder the msm is disinterested

    Most importantly, 73% of Australians trust the ABC.

  370. TB Queensland permalink
    October 29, 2014 11:10 am

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Treasurer Joe Hockey have demanded the opposition table old Treasury modelling showing an increase in the GST to 12.5 per cent would hit familes by more than $200 a fortnight.

    Treasury modelling is just that … modelling … not actually enacting anything …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And where exactly does that figure come from ?

    Fair call, Wally … a Ruddspeak is the closest I come … actual percentage is none existent …

    However, his media cancer is pretty wide ranging … right (no excuse for the pun!) across the world …

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_Corp#Television

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And who are the “Robber Barons” on this thread of which you speak? Name some names

    Referring to the rorts and government playing with the rules and being supported in their actions – “At the risk of repeating myself, News Corp has every right to be biased” … in favour of Robber Barons … “a level playing field according the LNP is any opposition being steamrolled into the ground” …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Yeah, yeah, I know. Murdoch! is evil personified.

    Yep, anti-christ fits nicely if you are that way inclined (to the right I mean) … 🙂

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The ABC is a classic case of the narcissistic intellectual elite thieving public resources for the pleasure of gazing into the mirror of their benighted leftism.

    Thanks for that unbiased comment, sb … says it all I suppose … I wonder just what they say on all those world news stations on SBS! Benighted got a chuckle … more right wing dribble … than left, methinks …

    Enjoy yer day, folks, off to build my new computer … won’t be able to use my left hand tomorrow – apparently … was that a sigh of relief I just heard? !! 😉

  371. ironicman permalink
    October 29, 2014 11:46 am

    Good pic Ricky, but as you can see I’ve changed. Over at Cattalaxy the other day I saw another egg and …..

  372. October 29, 2014 12:03 pm

    News clippings ROTFL this the most incompetent lazy EDU minister in Aust political history? Tabloid Policy a new low

    Good pic Ricky, but as you can see I’ve changed. Over at Cattalaxy the other day I saw another egg and …..

  373. October 29, 2014 12:13 pm

    Sorry this is better then

  374. TB Queensland permalink
    October 29, 2014 3:14 pm

    ironicman … mmmm … Ok ironcman …. mmm … how ironic ….

  375. October 29, 2014 3:30 pm

    I guess prize fuckwit must’ve already been taken.

  376. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 3:44 pm

    I guess prize fuckwit must’ve already been taken.

    So where is snacty these days?

  377. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 3:47 pm

    And speaking of prize fuckwits, what is with yabot wrapping everything up in the nationalist flag. You’re either with us, or against us!

    Guess what prize fuckwit, I’m fucken against ya! Get used to it!

    And I’m sayin’ it on behalf of Team Oztraya!!

    Is this their ‘mature debate’?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-29/pm-urges-business-leaders-to-join-team-australia/5849582

    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110330080612AAKtvdl

  378. Walrus permalink
    October 29, 2014 4:00 pm

    “This Man Made Education Free for Everyone”

    And this man realised it was unaffordable replaced it with HECS

  379. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 4:11 pm

    You are absolutely deluded TomR

    I am? 😯

    The Sydney Daily Terror is really giving it to the LNP over the petrol excise thingy today

    Just how many of those links go to the tewwa?

    Also, I read the news one, all it is is a straight story about what the GREAT BIG NEW TAX will do and cost. I don’t see the reference about LYING or bybassing legislators to force it down peoples throats.

    Deluded ROFL

  380. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 4:12 pm

    And this man realised it was unaffordable replaced it with HECS

    And made it affordable, until the libs came along and tried to give it all to private institutions 😉

  381. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 29, 2014 4:35 pm

    Oh dear, we’ve lost the eggman (and walrus are getting scarce as well). G’goo goo g’joob.

  382. Walrus permalink
    October 29, 2014 4:49 pm

    “………….(and walrus are getting scarce as well). …………….”

    Splatter………..Walruses are scarce because over the next few months there are some major tax lodgement deadlines approaching faster and faster and faster.

  383. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 5:04 pm

    from your google link

    What the fuel excise hike means

    which contains such powerful lnp slapdowns as

    “SO WHY DID CANBERRA EVER LET THIS ONE GO” or “HOW TO GET AROUND THIS OPPOSITION?”

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/what-the-fuel-excise-hike-means/story-fni0xqi3-1227104902865

    or

    Govt drives through fuel excise hike (wow, they’re so brave)

    Where’s the FUCKEN OUTRAGE!!

    Where’s the piccie of yabot with pinnochio’s nose

    What a joke. If anything, all the articles are doing is painting lipstick on the pig off the gubmints GREAT BIG NEW TAX! while ignoring the GREAT BIG LIE

    Yea, that’s givin’ it to ’em. If they gave it to ’em any harder, they’d need to buy a bottle of wine first ROFL

  384. October 29, 2014 5:31 pm

    Oh dear, we’ve lost the eggman

    I guess prize fuckwit must’ve already been taken.

    Is that Better?

    And this man realised it was unaffordable replaced it with HECS

    That’s all well and good however that free education brought some of the greatest minds out of the confines of the working class , not dependent upon the scholarships from fuckwits promoting the class system of the mother country….

    The Sydney Daily Terror is really giving it to the LNP over the petrol excise thingy today

    In amongst trying to destroy Peris in some vindictive hate campaign 🙄

  385. October 29, 2014 5:32 pm

    Sorry here ta go..

  386. Walrus permalink
    October 29, 2014 6:49 pm

    LOL

    “…….In amongst trying to destroy Peris in some vindictive hate campaign …””

    I think you might find the leak is coming from inside the ALP comrade………….ROFLMAO

  387. Tom R permalink
    October 29, 2014 7:28 pm

    I think you might find the leak is coming from inside the ALP comrade

    What makes you say that? Has there been an indication where the emails were sourced?

  388. October 29, 2014 9:21 pm

    I think you might find the leak is coming from inside the ALP comrade………….ROFLMAO

    Ridiculous… unless they were CC’d they were either
    1 Copied
    2 Hacked
    3 Accessed

    Opinion Limited will have some explaining to do in court…

  389. October 29, 2014 10:07 pm

    ”””’In a one-off extra question, Newspoll asked voters whether they were in favour of Abbott’s intention to “confront” the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, over the shooting down of flight MH17”””’

    #this seems quite funny,

    ””””’63% expressed support while 27% were against a confrontation.””””

    # l wonder if noise-poll realizes vlad would kill mr-rabbit, and l`m pretty sure many others like myself, would love our pretender to have a go at the `real-deal`

  390. October 29, 2014 11:42 pm

    Abbott is a Pomm
    So he and his government are not legitimate
    http://bit.ly/Tonythepom

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