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Reality Impaired Abbott Govt in New Poll Slump

December 7, 2014

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Despite declarations from Prime Minister Tony Abbott that the government has had a successful year, a new poll shows that the government has sunk to new record lows.

According to the latest Galaxy poll primary support for the Abbott government has plunged to 38 per cent, while support for the  Labor party has risen to 41 per cent.

On a two-party preferred basis, the government is running 10 points behind Labor sitting at 45 per cent to Labor on 55 per cent.

The reality-challenged Federal Government has sought to distance itself from the catastrophic caning dished out to the Victorian State government last weekend that saw popular Leader Denis Napthine ousted from office in favour of Labor’s relatively unknown Daniel Andrews.

The odious Christopher Pyne, who enjoys a personal satisfaction rating of minus 126 per cent insists that “the government is doing good job.”

Federal Treasurer and cigar aficionado Joe Hockey is also convinced of his own abilities insisting that the Budget will be passed.

Mr Hockey, previously regarded as one of the government’s best communicators, has had a “challenging” year.

His colleagues have been frustrated by several gaffes, including saying the “poorest people either don’t have cars or actually don’t drive very far”, being filmed smoking cigars on budget eve, and comparing a new $7 GP fee to the cost of beer and cigarettes.

Tensions have emerged between Tony Abbott and Julie Bishop, Malcolm Turnbull and Jockey, and Christopher Pyne and “the rest of the world.”

No amount of self- congratulatory rhetoric can disguise the sordid reality that this rotten government has brought its entire sorry circumstances upon itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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307 Comments leave one →
  1. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2014 8:48 pm

    The reality-challenged Federal Government

    Excellent choice of words …

    Incredibly this worked for Hitler in 1938 … Stalin in 1941 … Mao Zedung 1949 in … and today Kim Jong-Il …

    Unfortunately for The Abbott & The Acolytes Canberra Cemetery we are not starving (yet), nor uneducated (yet), nor living in a one party diktat (yet) …

    Tony Excrement works too ..

    I love democracy and FREE SPEECH!

  2. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2014 8:49 pm

    Independent senator Nick Xenophon hopes his new political party will improve the “toxic partisan disconnect” between politicians and voters.

    Now this may be a real alternative!

  3. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 7, 2014 9:18 pm

    “Now this may be a real alternative!

    Just don’t start saying “Go Nicky”

    (TB…the kiss of death)

  4. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2014 9:30 pm

    ToM … it was intended to be … but I think Xylophone id a much more talented politician than Clivey …

    I confess that Clivey “said” the right things but The Minister would tell you we in QLD knew of his white shoe brigade background and his link with JBP and particularly with the QLD LNP … leopards never change their spots … and nothing in business is coincidence … Clivey was out for revenge …

    I had to redesign Go Clivey! … to … Go Clivey! Please! Because Mexicans have a lot of trouble with sarcasm, satire and irony … particularly “rusted” (get it? Irony?) right whingers …

    Nick I believe is genuine … I leave that analysis to be confirmed by our SA colleagues …

  5. December 7, 2014 11:32 pm

    I concur…

  6. December 8, 2014 12:40 am

    Me too… we are seeing this reinvention thing a lot… Abbott Turdball… I mean Clive was in the thick of Joe for PM FFS…
    Xenophon is genuine..just as Oakshot and Windsor were.

  7. December 8, 2014 5:02 am

    Yeah Ricky, l see Xeno in the better group with Oakey and Windsor too.

    On Clive, TB l disagree, the value in Clive is he annoys both `teams` and teabag-media, and when that trifecta arises, it is better for those at the bottom, yeah sure, clive has his own agenda, and no doubt `will` trough-snout, upset the teabags, but his best `value` is his unhinging of teabag-media because he continually goes `off-script` to the cosy canberra/media arrangements and games, still value in him 🙂

  8. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:14 am

    It would be nice to see a viable alternative to the existing parties. And theX has done fantastic work with pokies legislation here in SA, and also helping out victims of pokies. His pokies work is admirable, and leaves anybody else behind.

    And, he has raised many (mainly local) issues, small but nonetheless important ones.

    It is the big picture things at a national level that I am not convinced on. He voted down the Carbon Price, and recently voted in TPV’s (along with the accompanying shockers tied to them http://theaimn.com/immoral-act/ ) along with a few others that left bewildered

    Having said that, Labor have also voted in some pretty poor policies this parliament, the most obvious being the “tewwa” laws, but not limited to that.

    Time will tell how he turns out.

    One thing is, I don’t ever see him being as bad as clive, as he comes from a solid base of community concern, where as clive comes from his boardroom, and appears to vote accordingly.

  9. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:25 am

    the value in Clive is he annoys both `teams`

    That really just highlights how a ‘anyone but who we have” attitude gets you.

    Have you seen the damage clive has done, and how, no matter what he says, he is there for him, and him alone.

    `off-script`

    Is that a nice way of saying batshit crazy? mouthing of at possible trading partners because he is having a personal beef with them?

    clives a dick. It’s a shame that our politics and media presentation of it had sunk to such a low that a dick like him could ever have bought his way into parliament. Rewarding him after that isn’t ever going improve things. It will only make it worst.

    But for someone who seems to thrive on anarchy, that will probably just give you something else to rail against futilely. Have fun with that

  10. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:27 am

    South Australia has a history of providing some decent, non aligned politicians, going back to Steele Hall. It was a solid base for the Democrats too.

    Xenophon aligned people should have a good future and get plenty of support.

  11. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:28 am

    One-third of all Holden engineers set to secure jobs internationally or at cross-town rival Ford.

    …….

    Ford’s Asia Pacific engineering boss Trevor Worthington said Australian engineers were globally considered among the best in the world.

    http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/outgoing-holden-engineers-snapped-up-overseas-20141204-1201kv.html

    But yea, Aussie workers are shit, and can’t compete internationally (well, not with an unbalanced playing field and grubmint determined to sell them out, I guess not)

  12. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:34 am

    I see yabots “backflipping” on his PPL

    From what I’ve seen to date though, the changes brings a bit of sanity back into it. The problem is, you know that it will be legislated in such a way so as to make one tiny tweek and all the millionaires get their taxpayer funded lifestyles back as they should.

    I’d need a lot more convincing than what has been done to date.

  13. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:44 am

    “But yea, Aussie workers are shit, and can’t compete internationall

    The facts support that. Even with subsidies, local car manufacture crashed under Rudd/Gillard reaching a low of 10% of total sales. And some of those sales would have been fleet car sales. Take away those and their is almost nothing left.

    Australians made their choice. When they buy a car they buy an imported vehicle.

  14. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:53 am

    It wasn’t simply up to the taxpayer to kick in every couple of years for ever increasing subsidies to the motor vehicle industry.

    If the public is/was to commit funds the public should be able to observe a high level of commitment from the workers and their representatives-

    • Rationalise union coverage (to a single union, eg the AMWU Vehicle Div) for all work on plant, including shut down, overhaul and expansion, including site contractors.
    • Eliminate the “me too” culture in coverage, one-upmanship and the turf wars
    • Tie wages to CPI only
    • Get rid of overtime and manning rorts

    In the case of Toyota, unions and the workforce were unable to bring themselves to make reasonable concessions in the interests of their jobs and the industry. The public really has no role in bailing out a business with such a misaligned culture.

  15. December 8, 2014 8:55 am

    ””’But for someone who seems to thrive on anarchy,””’
    #Wrong
    .
    ””’that will probably just give you something else to rail against futilely.””’
    #The current `team` are only interested in corporate gifting, not personal liberty.

    #Remind me again how your `team` supported voluntary euthanasia.? gay-marriage.? and didn`t unite with the zealots to slash womens welfare.? You know, when your `team` was lead by that unmarried, atheist woman. Just how different the `teams` are on some things huh.

    #When it takes 76 HOR votes to pass something, the best you can do is bleat about clives 1-vote.? Surely clive doesn`t have `over-half` the senate votes.? Prise the other one open and `actually` see what `your` team does.

  16. December 8, 2014 9:16 am

    ”””It wasn’t simply up to the taxpayer to kick in every couple of years for ever increasing subsidies to the motor vehicle industry.””’#agree-NO-handouts

    If the public is/was to LOAN funds, the public should be able to observe a high level of commitment from the local boardroom and detroit head-office,

    + no royalties
    +no licencing fees
    +no other bullshit `invented` fee back to head-office
    +no dividends

    until public/taxpayer LOAN repaid.

    lf the industry was run like that from beginning, it `may` have stood a chance of evolving better, instead of being an extortion racket, which is what `auto` HAS become worldwide. Yomm can only bleat anti-onion, enslaved-worker clap-trap. Simple yomm, outlaw the auto-onion/s by govt/law, and wage is $1-a-day. You think that would work.? Hint, it wouldn`t attract OR retain workers.

  17. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 9:25 am

    @ 8:53 am yomm said

    blah blah blah blah blah blah

    And ignores the fact that not only are our workers world class and in demand world wide, but that the automotive industry performs far better than the Australian standard.

    So “Union = BOO!” really doesn’t cut it, does it.

    #Remind me again how your `team` did absolutely ANYTHING!

    rail against everything, prvide no real change for anything. Reminds me of the Greens

    Sacrifice 50% of something, for 100% of nothing.

    Be pro-active for once teabag, instead of reactive.

  18. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 9:34 am

    the public should be able to observe a high level of commitment from the local boardroom and detroit head-office

    Well, they did, up until hockey bullied them out.

    it `may` have stood a chance of evolving better

    You, like yomm, ignore the fact, linked to many times here, that they performed far better than other Australian industries, and were world class.

    The main thing they were fighting against wasn’t local practices, but international factors, amplified by our high dollar.

    But instead of supporting local skills and jobs, our grubmint dared them to leave. Genius

  19. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 9:40 am

    What I’d like is some genius to explain what jobs will be available to replace all of the manufacturing jobs this grubmint has sacrificed to the freetrademonster, and just how they will compete on an international market when all other international industries protect there own in turn?

    What is a guy from Holdens supposed to do to feed their families now? What industries are being created to replace the industry this grubmint is methodically destroying?

  20. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 9:42 am

    And I see that, with just over a year in orifice, the libs have brought on the first taste of recession. Well done there chaps.

    This contraction is now officially an “income recession”, because it has happened for two consecutive quarters. So, while gross domestic product expanded by 0.3 per cent in the three months to September 30, real net disposable income shrank 0.3 per cent, after a 0.2 per cent contraction in the June quarter.

    http://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/doing-more-with-less-as-incomes-shrink-20141205-120so4.html

    And they reckon it’s their ‘sales job’ that’s lacking 😯

  21. December 8, 2014 9:43 am

    ””””@ 8:53 am yomm said
    blah blah blah blah blah blah”””’#correct

    ”””And ignores the fact that not only are our workers world class””’#correct-largely

    ”””the automotive industry performs far better””’#wrong
    #it spent its efforts extorting govts, not developing correct product

    ””’So “Union = BOO!” really doesn’t cut it, does it.””#true
    #neither does `my team=good`

    ””’Be pro-active for once teabag, instead of reactive.””’#wrong
    #l try to be realistic, not pessimistic nor `pro-active`, which are both bullshit terms to encourage one to engage in `denial` (for want of a better word) instead of what is `correct`, ethical, factual

  22. December 8, 2014 9:53 am

    ””’You, like yomm, ignore the fact, linked to many times here, that they performed far better than other Australian industries, and were world class.”””

    #You like yomm, ignore the fact that l am talking about local boardroom and upper-management and product-designers (not factory floor workers, who play zero part in product-design, fuel or electric, small or 4-wheel drive gas guzzlers, amount$ to extort govt for, photo-opps with next leader) and detroit head-office

  23. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 9:56 am

    ”””the automotive industry performs far better””’#wrong

    Then how do you account for the facts?

    However, the great irony is that if we look at the way productivity is measured – as value-added per worker – then the Australian car industry’s productivity is substantially above average. ABS data shows that productivity in the Australian car industry sits at something over $100,000 per worker, compared to around $85,000 across the economy.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-14/toner—car-manufacturing-in-australia/4886462

  24. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:01 am

    Well Tom R, if you think business failure due to misaligned culture is just ”blah blah blah blah blah blah” then you really have no idea about business. If your attitude is typical of ALP/union barrackers, then it is no wonder the union intensive industries are closing down.

    Labour makes up a significant proportion of manufacturing costs, over 50% in many plants. If labour is highly priced, unreliable and their representatives aren’t interested in supporting long term industry viability, don’t expect taxpayers to foot the bill.

  25. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:07 am

    You like yomm, ignore the fact that l am talking about local boardroom and upper-management and product-designers

    Well, that is the first time you have enunciated that particular angle.

    I’m not going to say that Holden haven’t made the right decisions all along. But, as I have said, ALL car companies do that. It is what their future plans are, and Holden quite obviously were moving to smaller cars, as shown by the Cruze, which now, after a few years of Australian skills being applied, is on a par with the top sellers.

    But our Grubmint have pulled the platform out from underneath them just as the dollar settles back, and just as their ability to make small cars again comes back into its own.

    That is what is probably most depressing. All indicators showed that the corner was being turned, and the bottom of trough had been reached. And then the libs ripped their future away.

    What business, of any kind, will persist in an environment where the powers that be are in outright war with them?

    if you think business failure due to misaligned culture

    You’ll have to highlight this “misaligned culture ” for me yomm? And do so while taking the first half of this post into consideration.

  26. December 8, 2014 10:08 am

    ””Then how do you account for the facts?””’

    #Why don`t you read what is `actually` said TomR, it will never matter how efficient or `enslaved` the worker is, when auto-boardroom focus is extorting govts worldwide and produced product is unwanted by the consumer.

  27. December 8, 2014 10:14 am

    ””’Labour makes up a significant proportion of manufacturing costs, over 50% in many plants.””

    #Smells like `selective` costings. l bet yomms `numbers` don`t include boardroom salary or any of those `invented` fees like `trademark` or licencing or `other-royalty` sent back to detroit head-office.

  28. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:29 am

    and produced product is unwanted by the consumer.

    Then #Why don`t you read what is `actually` said ?

  29. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:35 am

    For years, unions and others complained about the aging plant and underinvestment in Australian manufacturing. What the complainers neglected was to identify the significant cause of this.

    We have the AMWU (Metals Div) taking pot-shots at the AMWU (Vehicle Div) about agreements and which division covers various classifications. Then there’s the separate AMWU (old ADSTE bit) covering technical and planning. Then APESA covering engineers.

    Manufacturing plants have electricians covered by the avaricious ETU, there might be a store covered by NUW and some transport and delivery people covered by the TWU. There will be clerks covered by the ASU.

    They all like to have their own delegates all of whom want their regular consultative meeting and wander around looking for little problems to raise with management. Wandering around and going to important meetings is better than actually working for many.

    Then during plant maintenance, expansion or overhaul, you’ll have the construction divisions of CFMEU, AWU, AMWU and ETU all turn up with their range of claims and grievances.

    If you don’t think the industrial behaviour and complexity has been a significant cause of the underinvestment in manufacturing, then you really don’t know much about it Tom R.

  30. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:36 am

    If you wish to see a successful vehicle manufacturer that has a flexible workforce where union power does not dominate then look here………..

    http://www.denning.com.au/

    Everywhere else you might look south of the Murray or over in the economic basket case that is SA seems to be populated by lazy workers and greedy unions.

  31. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:40 am

    #Smells like `selective` costings.

    Smells like bullshit to me.

    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=24408

  32. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:40 am

    SA seems to be populated by lazy workers and greedy unions.

    Another illiterate who ignores the reality that was just repeated for you above.

  33. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:43 am

    then you really don’t know much about it Tom R.

    Says the guy who rants and raves about unions as the cause of all evil, and ignores, continually, the mountains of evidence that show that union dominated workforces are consistently the most productive.

    yomm continues to say “blah blah blah blah blah blah”

  34. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:52 am

    This pretty much sums up my view of the ppl back-flip as I mentioned above

  35. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:54 am

    Cost had to be measured internationally. I had some involvement in BlueScope Steel a few years ago. Australia was the only country in the world which had industrial problems.

    Nowhere else had a strike.

    It polluted the sentiment of the board to investing here.

    I also did some work for some investors looking to set up a manufacturing plant in South Aust. IR was top of their list for managing risk. All unions and the government wanted to do was put together a brief “Heads of Agreement ” and make a politically expedient announcement

    Investors don’t ignore Australian industrial relations, it’s a handbrake on investment here.

  36. December 8, 2014 10:54 am

    ”””””””””””If labour is highly priced, unreliable and their representatives aren’t interested in supporting long term industry viability””’

    # Look TomR, yomm has provided a working example of how little he knows about the worldwide auto industry, but continually applies parrot-points from his `walmart` or krusty-burger hand-book.

    # When it comes to
    ””aren’t interested in supporting long term industry viability””’
    Worldwide, auto-boardrooms focus has been extorting govts for hand-outs, not designing wanted product, but instead destroying innovation like their OWN electric cars. So fcuking dumb, that`s why yomm supports it l suppose. This crap has been going on for decades, since the michigan to mexico transfer started by roger smith, from memory of general motors, in the belief that slave-wages would solve all.

    # Yomms `walmart` hand-book fetish of slave-wages don`t work for small-biz at all, neither does it work for skilled work. Small-biz can`t be tied-up in never-ending rehire-interview loops, which rock-bottom hiring leaves them, as they won`t have a HR-dept. Skilled work is usually transferable across multiple industries so under-paid workers stay `on-market` and often network. When `better` jobs come up, they don`t just lose one skilled worker, but several/many. ln one place l worked, they lost about 90% of their workers in one month, and later heard they lost money across several jobs as they had to hire competitors and labor-hire to finish works before `penalties` kicked in. l also heard later, biz-owners sitting around boardroom asking themselves why everybody left, and we`re wonderful to work for. So much for the HR crap of paying people in `praise` not cash and security.

  37. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:01 am

    “”Another illiterate who ignores the reality that was just repeated for you above.””

    So going by your own economic illiteracy all we need to do to save the Car Industry is give it more taxpayer funds AND increase car industry wages if we follow your weird logic.

    FMD you just don’t get it.

    A heavily taxpayer subsidised car industry and a shipbuilding industry that costs the taxpayer billions in cost overruns.

    Just a coincidence says the guy who is prepared to defend the Holden Cruze .

    I rest my case

  38. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:10 am

    It polluted the sentiment of the board to investing here.

    And I’m sure you didn’t say anything to contribute to that. One wonders what their view would have been should the fact that productivity is actually higher with union involvement, even taking into account these short term issues?

    it’s a handbrake on investment here.

    As big a handbrake as the treasurer telling a company go get fucked?

    AND increase car industry wages if we follow your weird logic.

    Wow, talk about illiterate. You understand that Holden workers took a pay freeze just before hockey kicked them all in the nuts, don’t you?

    in cost overruns.

    Unlike the jet planes we have just committed billions to?

    I rest my case

    What, on the fact that Holden workers took an international lemon to on par with the worlds best?

    Probably not the best place to rest, or rotate 😉

  39. Roger Stark permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:15 am

    May 2013

  40. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:17 am

    “”Wow, talk about illiterate. You understand that Holden workers took a pay freeze ….”

    You really have no cred at all. You just repeat the lies ad nauseum even after you have already been found out.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-05/holden-pay-freeze-abandoned-as-workers-get-3pc-rise/5069450

  41. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:22 am

    “And I’m sure you didn’t say anything to contribute to that.

    Boards come to their own conclusions about which parts of their businesses get investment dollars.

    If their is a stable workforce that don’t make endless claims in one country, they’re likely to be in front of the plant that is making new claims every few weeks, looking for a protest strike and showing every indication of a lack of interest in the long term viability of their site.

    Strikes, claims and misalignment cause lack of investor confidence, and no board has ever needed me to identify that.

  42. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:22 am

    The Cruze is such a great car………….ROFLMAO

    http://www.notgoodenough.org/viewtopic.php?t=39332

  43. December 8, 2014 11:22 am

    #bluescope
    More horse-shit from yomm.? Didn`t bluescope get sunk for the same reason as Newcastle, free-trade with china under john-w

  44. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:23 am

    but only if the company committed to building its Cruze and Commodore models in Australia beyond 2016.

    Thanks again hockey. He’s fucken illiterate too.

  45. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:25 am

    ROFL wally

    Top 10 Gripes

    A load of what are most probably glorified public servants spinning in their chairs griping about …. the Cruze back in 2011

    talk about yesterdays hero ROFL

  46. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:27 am

    Wow, my bad, 2010, before they even begun production on them here

    ROFL

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  47. December 8, 2014 11:28 am

    ”””The Cruze is such a great car”””

    #okay, who needs the fcuking spanking for that.?

  48. December 8, 2014 11:34 am

    ””’If their is a stable workforce that don’t make endless claims””’

    #Workforces `are` stable when they are paid properly, have stability and safety.

    l notice you don`t have the nads to include those details when you quote your `krusty-burger` hand-book, so that leaves me to conclude, they aren`t `top-line` employment conditions, but probably rock-bottom huh yomm

  49. Meta permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:41 am

    (Speaking of Remy, and of orbital engines: “Australia has first-rate engineers and builds world-quality suspension and braking systems, develops advanced composites and innovative alloy technologies. Australia also builds second-rate cars. It has a third-rate managerial class and fourth-rate governments.”)

  50. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:43 am

    So TomR’s current strategy is to ignore the buyers of the Cruze whether they are purchasers in 2010 or 2014 and also ignore professional reviewer opinions as well because it doesn’t fit his vibe

    http://www.productreview.com.au/p/holden-cruze-2008-present.html

    The overwhelming sentiment is that the Cruze is a Dog of a Car…………………….but TomR wont accept that because that would mean he’s wrong despite all the evidence

  51. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:45 am

    and also ignore professional reviewer opinions

    No wally, in fact, whilst you were rotating, I found even more of them 😉

    http://www.caradvice.com.au/277666/small-car-comparison-toyota-corolla-v-mazda-3-v-holden-cruze-v-hyundai-elantra/

  52. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:48 am

    professional reviewer opinions

    ROFL

    cooper66

    ROFL

  53. December 8, 2014 11:49 am

    yomms not being fully honest with his bluescope comment, ir is only one component of the investment decision, the broader truth is `what industry can get away with` AND `how corrupt the govt is`

    if a company can get away with `murdering-by-negligence` this is attractive, like `union-carbide` did, and not be held to an equitable account, this would be highly attractive, grollo must be spewing he had to cough-up for killing only three,

    so maybe our govt, despite its best efforts, isn`t corrupt enough

  54. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:51 am

    It has a third-rate managerial class and fourth-rate governments.

    I AGREE!!

    Although, third rate for management seemed a bit low, I’d be tempted to rate them closer to fourth rate 😉

    Toyota will not comment officially on subsidies, but it is estimated the Japanese company received about $1.2 billion in the last decade.

    But no, we need to “go it alone” (when it suits wreckers)

  55. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:52 am

    yomms not being fully honest with his bluescope comment

    much surprisement 😉

  56. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 11:53 am

    btw reb, sorry to have sent your post about how unpopular this miserable grubmint is, but imo their treatment of the manufacturing industry is an important factor in that unpopularity 😉

  57. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 12:05 pm

    “”but imo their treatment of the manufacturing industry is an important factor “”

    Only if you are one of the many lazy and greedy employees iching to send a joint broke so you can get your fat redundancy.

    Certainly not if you are the taxpayer.

  58. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 8, 2014 12:06 pm

    Rudd/Gillard did everything TomR said they should and under six years of Labor management Ford up and left and local car sales reached a low of 10%.

    I doubt any local industry could survive with only 10% of the market.

  59. December 8, 2014 12:09 pm

    I buy mostly Australian stuff and try where I can to support Mom and Pop stores.. but I can tell you now I draw the line at Australian cars…especially as they are essentially yank or jap cars with Bogan pride attached to them… fuck that..

    Lets build usefull shit like solar panels..instead of over priced shit nobody wants in a saturated market…

    Do everything the multinationals want while they backdoor outsource everything to OS countries irrespective of political rhetorical posturing …

    You are only arguing this feeble point which is essentially a done deal in a unsustainable market because fuckwit Nil the super troll is dragging you all back into yester year in denial of this dysfunctional heinous dangerously incompetent government of lying fucktards…

  60. December 8, 2014 12:11 pm

    (For Certain; Excellent Summary with generous rankings of 3 and 4.)

  61. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 12:11 pm

    Only if you are one of the many lazy and greedy glorified public servants who spends their days rotating on their chairs while bleeding people through outsourced government roles 😉

  62. December 8, 2014 12:20 pm

    ”””””””””””Only if you are one of the many lazy and greedy employees iching to send a joint broke so you can get your fat redundancy.”””’

    #This > ””fat redundancy”” shows just how out of touch with reality you are blubbers, most are stuck with mortgages made-up of much `fatter` interest and fees than any redundancy (if_any) they are likely to get

  63. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 12:22 pm

    “It tanked because it’s a dog of a car that no-one wanted to buy.”

    Kevin Foley former ALP Deputy Premier of SA heaping praise on the Holden Cruze

    ROFLMAO

  64. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 12:24 pm

    most are stuck with mortgages made-up of much `fatter` interest and fees than any redundancy (if_any) they are likely to get””

    Then they should never have been so greedy and inflexible.

    I suggest you read the Holden Agreement with its employees Teabagz

  65. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 1:02 pm

    Kevin Foley motoring expert ROFL

    Lets build usefull shit like solar panels

    and automobiles?

  66. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 1:21 pm

    “”Lets build usefull shit like solar panels…….and automobiles?””

    Operative word is “shit””

  67. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 1:24 pm

    Just fine TomR

    Just ignore all the evidence and blame everybody else but the Union or Workforce.

    Fancy those selfish consumers wanting a vehicle that doe’sn’t breakdown all the time.

    I do hope you actually own a locally built vehicle. I’m scratching to think of anyone I know who does anymore

  68. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 1:40 pm

    Just ignore all the evidence

    Evidence ROFL

    snarky comments from what is most probably trolls on a faceless internet site ROFL

    I could always apply that line to you couldn’t I, ie, ignore all the evidence that Australian skills took a lemon and created a very competitive car.

  69. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 1:58 pm

    “”……….. ignore all the evidence that Australian skills took a lemon””

    So all those recall notices amount to nothing ?

    Like I said………..just ignore the sheer weight of evidence even from your own side.

  70. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 1:59 pm

    Re – Redundancy

    As the workforce ages, there are some who have more to gain by the business failing than by it succeeding.

    A couple of years pay, lightly taxed, looks pretty good to some mature people who really can’t, or won’t, maintain their motivation to work in a production environment.

    It doesn’t take that many to spoil a business.

  71. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 2:07 pm

    …and the apologists for the unions don’t actually address the issue of their behaviour spoiling investor sentiment or how the multitude of them causes IR to have a higher profile here than is necessary (which spoils investor confidence) or how the behaviour of unions during shutdowns, expansion & overhaul… spoils investor confidence.

    Poor investor confidence causes decaying plant, without renewal, but Tom R’s solution is that the taxpayer cough up.

  72. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 2:29 pm

    So all those recall notices amount to nothing

    All those recall notices amounts to what all those recall notices from other car manufacturers amounts to.

    As the workforce ages …. It doesn’t take that many to spoil a business.

    You’re showing your age here then yomm 😉

    Poor investor confidence causes decaying plant

    No yomm, the evidence shows that a company being bullied by a treasurer stops investment in a plant, else they would have signed on for even more improvements in the Cruze (and other models)

    Unless you have evidence to dispute that?

  73. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 3:41 pm

    “”Unless you have evidence to dispute that?””

    As if you’d take notice anyway.

    How about the Productivity Commission Report. I suppose they are a bunch of crackpots as well ?

    .

  74. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 8, 2014 3:46 pm

  75. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 3:47 pm

    How about the Productivity Commission Report

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    Yep, a report run by this mob who have not been able to anything that isn’t dripping with partisan politics. Go on, show us yer report, let me pick it to shreds.

    I suppose they are a bunch of crackpots as well ?

    See above 😉

  76. December 8, 2014 3:48 pm

    ”””””””’As the workforce ages, there are some who have more to gain by the business failing than by it succeeding.”””””””

    #Wake up to ya`self drongo.
    Many of`em have younger relatives (ie-kids) working there too.
    l heard the same hose-shit went govt things (railway_telecom) workers got arse-fcuked, no credibility.

  77. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 3:51 pm

    Don’t rush though Wally, I’m out for a few hours. 😉

  78. December 8, 2014 3:55 pm

    How hilarious is politics at the moment…?

    The Yabott govt is a moving feast of a train wreck, and the greatest hilarity is watching traditional Abbott allies like Karl Stefanovic and David Koch tear strips off him in the space of just two weeks.

    Now it’s Alan Jones turn…

    You can tell the Abbott supporters are worried when they all start turning on each other…

    “”Radio presenter accuses environment minister of lying, and says Abbott is in danger of losing his seat over the proposal to build an aged-care home in the PM’s electorate””

    In an angry 30-minute interview on Sydney’s 2GB, Jones repeatedly chastised Hunt, accusing him of “telling lies to my listeners” and of accepting advice from Labor appointees on the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust about the proposal to build a privately owned, for-profit aged care home overlooking Sydney harbour at Middle Head.

    “They are cheering and clapping their hands, they are saying ‘We’ve got Abbott on something else’ … [former prime minister Julia] Gillard appointed these people and they are laughing at you … they are rubbing their hands because Tony Abbott is in trouble with his own people and he may go the way John Howard went in Bennelong,” Jones said. (Howard lost the Sydney seat of Bennelong at the 2007 election).

    “You will doom Tony Abbott if you start building an aged care facility there, I am telling you now,” he told Hunt, despite the fact that the prime minister holds the seat of Warringah by a very healthy 15.3% margin. “The prime minister is on the rack.”

    In a six-minute, 30-second introduction to the interview, Jones said the Coalition was “on the nose” and this was not going to improve unless they started to listen.

    “I am just telling them what the public will do if they don’t change … this is government completely out of control telling the people to get stuffed … and this is in Tony Abbott’s electorate and he has been hopelessly and dishonestly advised … the commonwealth consent authority was signed off by Greg Hunt, every aspect of this is a disgrace, and the minister Greg Hunt is on the line,” Jones said as he concluded his introductory monologue.

    Oh how we laughed and laughed! 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

  79. December 8, 2014 3:56 pm

    #oh the onions, the onions, don`t they make ya`cry

    ””’behaviour spoiling investor sentiment””’

    horse-shit, Aldi rapidly moving to 350 stores, many of them `built`,

    industries have flocked to China, knowing the `behaviour` of
    our (pants down, bend over, free trade) govt

  80. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 8, 2014 4:00 pm

  81. December 8, 2014 4:18 pm

    Ha ha reb. Jones can have fun at mr-rabbits expense for a while but he will return to the song-book soon enough, l suspect mr-rabbit is very secure in his seat, it doesn`t have the level of demographic change that john-ws had.

  82. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2014 4:30 pm

    “”Go on, show us yer report, let me pick it to shreds.””

    Why would I bother with further damning evidence.

  83. December 8, 2014 4:37 pm

    ””””””””’The problem for Abbott is that the PPL is now permanently branded in the public’s view as an inequitable scheme for millionaire mummies. No fine-tuning will change that. Just as John Howard discovered with WorkChoices and Kevin Rudd with his Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, you can tie a bow on an albatross and call it a puppy but it’s still an albatross.

    The Abbott team’s inability to see this truth is only one example of how the Government seems incapable of learning from such past mistakes.
    http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-08/matthewson-abbott-fails-to-learn-from-past-mistakes/5950332
    ”””””””””””””””’

    #While true, the party is an albatross (reheated-zombie) that isn`t really interested in `changing` or `learning` as they are there to govern for the rich and run interference on needs-of-poor and liberties they don`t like.

    ”””””””’Or if the rumours are true, the PM’s chief of staff Peta Credlin is indeed preventing external advice from Howard and other wise heads reaching Abbott.””’

    #Really.? Of course john-w can contact his reheated zombies, `as-if`all the zombies changed their number and refused to give new numbers to `their` golden-boy. FFS.

  84. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2014 4:39 pm

    Here comes Rupert Rescue … the polls must be really hurting and just might be worse than we plebs really know …

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/opinion-australia-wins-my-darwin-award-for-dumbest-nation-on-earth/story-fnihsr9v-1227147788128#itm=newscomau%7Chome%7Cnca-homepage-news-plus-story%7C3%7Cheading%7Chomepage%7Chomepage&itmt=1418016559191

    And The Abbott plays his role so well …

    Sitting Bull …

  85. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 4:47 pm

    “Aldi” at the cutting edge of motor vehicle manufacturing.

    It seems.

    What a complete f**kwits.

  86. December 8, 2014 4:53 pm

    oh that`s right, l forgot about the `bluescope` cruze #teabag

  87. December 8, 2014 4:58 pm

    …and the apologists for the unions don’t actually address the issue of their behaviour spoiling investor sentiment or how the multitude of them causes IR to have a higher profile here than is necessary (which spoils investor confidence) or how the behaviour of unions during shutdowns, expansion & overhaul… spoils investor confidence.
    Poor investor confidence causes decaying plant, without renewal, but Tom R’s solution is that the taxpayer cough up.

    What utter Bollocks…. please substantiate this ludicrous assertion with some acual evidence other than your biased hatred for unions.

    How about the Productivity Commission Report. I suppose they are a bunch of crackpots Crackheads as well ?

    Yes they are most certainly are on the crack pipe…..

    Seriously Wally…Are you pissed? Productivity Commission Report? You’re on crack if you believe that widely discredited bullshit which was consultative and devoid of any semblance of detail…
    It would be fair to say that the “productivity commission” ideology show squad was nothing more than a band of hand picked liberal donors skimming over everything that was already vindictively earmarked for the chop by sycophants for their puppet masters…
    The Business council wish list who have since hung this dysfunctional lot out to dry realising, they just compulsively lie to everyone even their own supporters…

    Why would I bother with further damning evidence.

    Let me know where your next gig is.. Love to see a pissed performing seal Walrus doing stand up…

  88. December 8, 2014 5:06 pm

    ”””””””’at least when you go down the gurgler, you know your sheer stupidity has given somebody else a really good laugh. The Chinese, in our case.
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/opinion-australia-wins-my-darwin-award-for-dumbest-nation-on-earth/story-fnihsr9v-1227147788128?nk=f97c824ce6067af0c8b9968b03a4055a#itm=newscomau%7Chome%7Cnca-homepage-news-plus-story%7C3%7Cheading%7Chomepage%7Chomepage&itmt=1418016559191
    ””””””””””””#TeabagPanic”””””’

    ”””’Rupert Rescue … the polls must be really hurting and just might be worse than we plebs really know”””’

    #You could be on to something there TB,
    Lets see if kweenzland tosses noddy, we might then have a `trend` of east-coasters willing to chuck first-term govts 🙂

  89. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 5:17 pm

    BlueScope is a manufacturer, including of motor vehicle components.

    What a F**KWIT

  90. December 8, 2014 5:29 pm

    Yeah Teabag, ya spent the whole thread `deep-throating` about biz-investment and building biz-infrastructure,

    Aldi`s 350 stores proves your args are horse-shit

  91. December 8, 2014 5:31 pm

    #all the `onion` activity has prevented Aldi snaring `about` 14% of market-share, oh wait, it didn`t

  92. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 5:34 pm

    What a F**KWIT, we were talking about manufacturing and why it is F**KED

  93. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2014 5:40 pm

    Another multi million waste of money …. won’t see the light of day with this <del<government ideological rabble …

    If he has taken sides, it is with customers instead of shareholders, smaller banks instead of big banks, retirees over the wealth managers. It is the taxpayers who are afforded his attention and his protection, not the oligopoly of the banking giants.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-08/verrender-murray-inquiry-forces-hockey-into-the-firing-line/5950238

  94. December 8, 2014 5:58 pm

    scroll-up half-wit, YOU raised the #biz-infrastructure and #biz-investment topics to the mix, now you bleat because you`ve been arse-fcuked with you`re own diversions, Aldi has built biz-infrastructure; stores and warehouses, Aldi did their research and found aust to be a good investment, guess what, so has LIDL,

    the main difference between them and you yomm, is competence, non-bias, and a realistic plan that doesn`t rely on regurgitating the krusty-burger handbook

  95. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 6:20 pm

    What a complete F**KWIT

    In a discussion about manufacturing decline and its causes, he uses a small supermarket as the example!!

    Does Aldi use a unionised workforce in construction of suburban shops? Do they use major constructors or local builders? Is their workforce unionised?

    What an ignorant F**KWIT

  96. December 8, 2014 6:43 pm

    As `our` Corporate Personal Fluffer RAISED the #biz-investor topic,

    ls not Aldi a highly successful biz-investor.? #run #teabag

  97. December 8, 2014 6:56 pm

    Glen Lazarus id fuming..

    Press Release
    Abbott Government arrogant, out of touch and desperate
    Palmer United Senator for Queensland and Leader of Palmer United in the Senate Glenn Lazarus has today called on the Abbott Government to stop wasting tax payers’ money.
    The Abbott Government has just launched an expensive advertising campaign, along with a new website, to promote higher education reforms.
    “Clearly, the Abbott Government is refusing to listen to the people of Australia,” Senator Glenn Lazarus said.
    “Last week, the people of Australia voted, through their Senate representatives, to kill off the Abbott Government’s nasty higher education reforms.
    “I consulted widely with the people of Queensland including universities and based on their feedback I voted down the Abbott Government’s higher education cuts.
    “Despite this, the Abbott Government thinks they can ignore the will of the people.
    “Australia has spoken. The Abbott Government needs to move on or take the matter to the next election.
    “The Abbott Government needs to cancel all advertising booked for this under-handed campaign and apologise to the people of Australia.
    “On one hand, the Abbott Government is telling us we are facing a budget emergency and on the other hand, they are engaging in an expensive propaganda campaign on radio and television to sell their dud reforms.
    “Clearly Christopher Pyne has given up on texting and moved on to advertising, websites and social media.
    “Education is fundamental to a fair, democratic and successful society.
    “In order to succeed we need to invest in our people through quality education. Cutting funding to education is not going to achieve this.
    “Christopher Pyne thinks that by adding some sweeteners to his higher education reforms that Australia will buy it this time round. Well, we all know what he is up to and we are not buying it!
    “Every Australian deserves access to quality education.”
    ENDS

  98. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2014 7:06 pm

    I’m beginning to like the look of the NEW David Murray … there’ll be a few here who will be burning their walrus bras …

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/murray-criticises-investor-tax-breaks/story-e6frfkur-1227148940900

    The inquiry also criticised the extent to which investors can claim losses as tax deductions when they rent out a property, as part of a system known as negative gearing.
    “The tax treatment of investor housing, in particular, tends to encourage leveraged and speculative investment,” it said.
    The finding comes as the Reserve Bank and the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority consider new lending standards to help cool overheated investor demand for housing.

  99. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2014 7:07 pm

  100. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 7:08 pm

    Why would I bother with further damning evidence.

    To start with wally, you need some “damning” evidence in order to provide “further” Sorry, but yobbos having a dummy spit on a random website can hardly be called “evidence’, let alone “damning”

    But one reason you could try with providing some evidence would be because you are (apparently) trying prove a point, one which, imo, you have been unable to prosecute. Yes, you have an opinion that auto workers don’t deserve a Government subsidy, but, considering almost EVERY industry receives subsidies, why should automotive workers be left out? particularly due to value adding they provide to the greater community.

    I can see why though you do not want to discuss the Productivity Commission report though, as it has been comprehensively discredited elsewhere.

    http://theconversation.com/productivity-commissions-myopic-failure-on-industry-assistance-28616

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/auto-report-is-a-fantasy-tale-with-a-tragic-twist-20140205-321mo.html

    But, of course, you already knew that, didn’t you 😉

    https://theguttertrash.com/2014/02/11/oh-what-a-feeling/

  101. December 8, 2014 7:10 pm

    Nice find Ricky.
    Heads-up TB, still value in pup leg-cocking. 🙂

  102. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 7:14 pm

    ROFL @ 7:07 pm TB 🙂

  103. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 7:16 pm

    “Every Australian deserves access to quality education.”

    Because if you don’t have one, you could end up as dumb as chris pin

  104. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 7:19 pm

    did nil “right” that article TB?

    The irony with our National Darwin winner – Australia – is that the very bloke Australians want as their next prime minister was part of the team that got us into our financial mess in the first place.

    So, Bill Shorten caused the GFC 😯

  105. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2014 7:19 pm

    A study in the stupidity and incompetence of politicians and public servants …

    In 2002 Queensland asked for a National (state/Federal) approach to eradicating fire ants … they were told the ants were in Queensland they were a Queensland problem …

    As if insects knew that Mexico wasn’t Argentina … Fuckwits all …

    They have also been found in Queensland, with eradication efforts there already amounting to $281 million since 2001.

    I do hope Noddy Newman & The Nitwits charge NSW for training in the and assistance in getting rid of the Sydney (for now) fire ants … best of luck Wally …

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/aggressive-red-ants-found-at-sydney-port/story-e6frfku9-1227148994584

  106. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 7:29 pm

    In a discussion about –
    • Motor vehicle manufacturing
    • Motor vehicle component and steel manufacturing
    • A proposed South Australian manufacturing plant

    A COMPLETE F**KWIT uses a small suburban supermarket as his gotcha.

  107. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 7:32 pm

    Maybe he meant Audi? 🙂

  108. December 8, 2014 7:37 pm

    it`s not like the fire-ants will follow the cane toads or anything

  109. December 8, 2014 7:48 pm

    half-wit, YOU raised the #biz-infrastructure and #biz-investment topics, then fled from them, l don`t need to `gotcha` yomm, you do it(`gotcha`) to ya`self, and your McKrusty-burger handbook parrot points guarantee you always will #teabag

  110. December 8, 2014 8:06 pm

    ”””Maybe he meant Audi?”””’
    Smart arse. 🙂 lf you notice with yomms blather, he doesn`t state much in the way of `meaningful-specifics`, he won`t state for instance specific pay-rate and other conditions, holidays.? full-time.? to be able to compete with 10-cents/hour China pay. This is what makes nearly `all` he says total horse-shit. Just exactly what was bluestones workers conditions yomm.? specifically.?

  111. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:09 pm

    The discussion covered-
    • BlueScope Steel, unionised motor vehicle manufacturing – in decline
    • South Australian manufacturing plant (would have been unionised). Investment did not proceed
    • Motor vehicle industry, unionised. Closed

    But we have small suburban supermarket Aldi, non union, non manufacturing, expanding!!

    But F**KWIT regards this as a gotcha!

  112. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:11 pm

    it`s not like the fire-ants will follow the cane toads or anything

    Yeah right …

    Just exactly what was bluestones workers conditions yomm.? specifically.?

    I say again … reduce prices and wages will come down …

  113. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:12 pm

  114. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:17 pm

    Aldi is so much like heavy manufacturing, the types of skills and qualifications they require-
    • An apprenticeship in collecting trolleys
    • An engineering degree in aisle layout
    • A doctorate in fresh fruit

    Yep, Aldi will replace all those skilled jobs that have been killed off in manufacturing.

  115. December 8, 2014 8:22 pm

    nearly `all` he says total horse-shit. Just exactly what was bluestones BlueScopes workers conditions yomm.? specifically.?

  116. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:25 pm

    I always chuckle at the “unions BOO!” argument … I’ve never met a manufacturing board member who could actually make anything … but I have met many production line personnel who could run rings around board members when it come to finance … ironic, hey?

    When I studied for my business degree one of my assignments was to compare IR systems from around the world … in fact the parameters were designed to target and attack our award system (unique in the world BTW) … I compared Australia, Japan, USA, UK, France and Germany … one thing that has always struck me as a very clever approach was that German companies require that a certain percentage of the Board members are elected from the workshop floor …

    The only reason that Harley Davidson motorbikes still survive is because management had a brainwave … “let’s ask the workers how we can save the business … and listen” …

    Some people only have uni larnin’ and no street wise prac …

    Always amuses me that a dick with a uni degree and no practical experience at getting his/her hands dirty will be “listened” to and more often than not fail … the smart ones listen to the guys on the floor …

    Having been one of the guys on the floor, one of the line managers, one of the staff managers and a training consultant to managers/directors … I can assure you it never changes … (no matter how much you wish it would) BOO!

    Just sayin’

  117. December 8, 2014 8:26 pm

  118. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 8:26 pm

    F**KWIT, just stick to tangling yourself up with-

    * Don’t blame the people who shoot missiles at planes for the deaths of the innocent passengers
    * A the expansion of a small supermarket is a gotcha when talking about the decline heavy manufacturing

  119. December 8, 2014 8:47 pm

    you mean BOO! isn`t the answer to everything TB

  120. December 8, 2014 8:53 pm

    ”””So, Bill Shorten caused the GFC”””

    With the assistance of BOO! he just might have. lt definitely wasn`t yomm, who was busy explaining his `blue-scope` position he raised, and not running from it. 🙂

  121. December 8, 2014 9:17 pm

    mandy vanstone didn`t seem to say anything `unexpected` armchair

  122. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 9:21 pm

    ””So, Bill Shorten caused the GFC”””
    With the assistance of BOO! he just might have. lt definitely wasn`t yomm, who was busy explaining his `blue-scope` position he raised, and not running from it.

  123. December 8, 2014 9:25 pm

    tho l enjoyed this bit
    ””””””””””””’Do I think Joe or the government have done everything exactly right and are thus above criticism? No. Certainly not. They certainly needed a better narrative and some simple and stronger messages.””””

    # A three word slogan perhaps.

  124. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 9:49 pm

    he won`t state for instance specific pay-rate and other conditions, holidays.? </i.

    And he posts al this while on ….

    What have the Unions ever done for us 🙂

    Motor vehicle industry, unionised. Closed

    Did I say “thank you hockey” yet?

    But we have small suburban supermarket Aldi, non union, non manufacturing, expanding!!

    With luck, they might turn out as good for workers as walmart 😉

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/

    Yep, Aldi will replace all those skilled jobs that have been killed off in manufacturing.

    whose going to buy all the shit if no one has a job elsewhere?

    Pretty soon, we’ll be a nation of shop assistants, all selling the same shit back and forward to each other.

    Did I mention, thanks hockey, you miserable prick

  125. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:11 pm

    …and just to recap, it isn’t a matter of “blaming unions”, my earlier point was that if a company and its workforce expects taxpayer handouts, they have to show some genuine willingness to fix things up themselves…

    I said –

    It wasn’t simply up to the taxpayer to kick in every couple of years for ever increasing subsidies to the motor vehicle industry.
    If the public is/was to commit funds the public should be able to observe a high level of commitment from the workers and their representatives-
    • Rationalise union coverage (to a single union, eg the AMWU Vehicle Div) for all work on plant, including shut down, overhaul and expansion, including site contractors.
    • Eliminate the “me too” culture in coverage, one-upmanship and the turf wars
    • Tie wages to CPI only
    • Get rid of overtime and manning rorts
    In the case of Toyota, unions and the workforce were unable to bring themselves to make reasonable concessions in the interests of their jobs and the industry. The public really has no role in bailing out a business with such a misaligned culture.

    If workers/unions aren’t willing to implement some reasonable changes (such as CPI wage increases and single union coverage), why should taxpayers continually bail them out of their problems?

  126. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:21 pm

    Because they are not bailing them out, they are providing support as our government does to all industries, and all countries do to car makers. They have now been cut loose, and in the years to come, we will see what a monumental fuck up this was

  127. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:31 pm

    …and the workforce can now ask themselves whether they and their representatives did everything within their control to save their jobs.

  128. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2014 10:37 pm

    Hockey took it out of their hands and sold it to the freetrademonster

  129. December 8, 2014 10:40 pm

    and just what `conditions` + `pay` level should they be lowered to yomm.? specifically.? #run #teabag #run

  130. December 8, 2014 10:47 pm

    and just to recap

    yomm raised,

    #biz-investment (and ran)
    #biz-infrastructure (and ran)
    #blue-scope (and ran)
    #blamed pampered workers (and ran)
    #blamed onions (and ran)

    There is not a pattern here.

  131. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 9, 2014 7:48 am

    There was some talk earlier in the year of giving Qantas and SPC some govt help. They did not get any govt help and seem to be doing OK.

    The companies that Rudd/Gillard gave all the money they wanted are leaving. Ford left under Rudd/Gillard even though Ford was given all the govt money it wanted

  132. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 8:29 am

    There’s a severe intelligence problem with the F**KWIT.

    He doesn’t understand what “tie wages to CPI” means and thinks-

    • You can’t blame the people who fire missiles at civilian aircraft for the deaths of the passengers
    • The decisions of a small supermarket are illustrative of the problems in heavy manufacturing

    Summary of his contribution

  133. December 9, 2014 8:47 am

    That’s a load of shite ToM. And you know it.

  134. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:11 am

    Maybe it is!!
    —————
    What a hilarious coincidence!!

    The small supermarket must be very happy and content with our union and IR culture!

    THE CFMEU has told builders it plans to shut down an Aldi construction site for “the foreseeable future” after stopping work on the supermarket for a second day.

    The Herald Sun understands the CFMEU has taken issue with Magellan Projects as it does not have a union-endorsed enterprise bargaining agreement and “owes money to people in the industry”.
    Building industry sources said the union had a long-running battle with Aldi for bringing in international experts to oversee the German company’s specific method of laying its concrete floors to provide extra strength.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/cfmeu-shuts-down-altona-aldi-site-again-over-dispute-with-builder-magellan-projects/story-fni0fit3-1227149069429?nk=416aa7aead3f0e4043d52ba9fba66de3

  135. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:30 am

    “”The small supermarket must be very happy and content with our union and IR culture!””

    The Unions flexing their muscle in Victoria so quickly is great news for Abbott.

    Now we can see what a Shorten government will look like.

  136. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:37 am

    Nasty Union, making sure workers come home at night.

    Aldi perhaps were hoping for walmart type arrangements, reality is biting

  137. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:38 am

  138. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:46 am

    Gives with one hand, takes with the other. Just like his mentor

    Family day care providers are unclear about Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s plans to both cut and funnel funding into Australia’s child care sector.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-08/family-day-cares-future-unclear-after-governments-announcement/5952928

  139. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:48 am

    Well, we are world leaders, in being th worlds worst (industrial) country on Climate Change

    The report states: “The new conservative Australian government has apparently made good on last year’s announcement and reversed the climate policies previously in effect. As a result, the country lost a further 21 positions in the policy evaluation compared to last year, thus replacing Canada as the worst-performing industrial country.”

    ……

    “The fossil fuel lobbies in the countries are strong. In Australia they stopped what were some very good carbon laws.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/08/australia-named-worst-performing-industrial-country-on-climate-change

    And blew out the budget in the process.

  140. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:51 am

    It shows just how f**ked the CFMEU is. We have the total F**KWIT declaring Aldi to be the heavy manufacturing example of success in our IR environment on the very day that the CFMEU has closed their site indefinable.

    Their grievance is that a small contractor won’t capitulate to their demands.

    It’s hilarious!

  141. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:55 am

    “indefinitely “… its a predictive text problem.

  142. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:59 am

    “”Sorry, but yobbos having a dummy spit on a random website can hardly be called “evidence’, let alone “damning” “”

    http://www.notgoodenough.org/viewtopic.php?t=39332 = Random Website

    Disgruntled Purchasers of a Cruze = Yobbos

    Motoring Journalist calling the Cruze a Dog of a Car = Biased Opinion

    ALP Deputy SA Premier calling the Cruze a Dog of a Car = Biased Opinion

    Productivity Report = Biased Opinion

    Multiple Holden Cruze Recalls = Irresponsible Behaviour

    TomR’s Opinion = Correct………………..FMD

    Time to just ROFLMAO

    You have no cred TomR

    And what the fuck does a death on a building site in Adelaide have to do with an Aldi site in Melbourne being shutdown over money problems ?

    The population of the Northern states and WA will be watching Victoria as it slowly gets strangled by bodies like the CFMEU. Not to mention construction contracts being torn up.

  143. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:03 am

    “”It’s hilarious!””

    It’s actually encouraging ToM…………………..LOL

    Back to the dark old days of the BLF

  144. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:05 am

    “”Well, we are world leaders, in being th worlds worst (industrial) country on Climate Change””

    That’s excellent news

  145. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:09 am

    Their grievance is that a small contractor won’t capitulate to their demands.

    I thought you were “in” on all this shit yomm?

    It also understands the CFMEU has taken issue with Aldi’s use of overseas contractors.

    Building industry sources said the union has had a long-running battle with Aldi over its use of international experts, which are brought in to oversee the German company’s specific method of laying its concrete floors to provide extra strength.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/cfmeu-blockade-shuts-down-aldi-building-site/story-fni0fit3-1227146603546

    Just part of the story again 😦

  146. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:09 am

    That’s excellent news

    About “going it alone” on climate change, or that they blew the budget out by doing so?

  147. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:22 am

    “Building industry sources” = John Setka

  148. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:27 am

    Disgruntled Purchasers of a multitude of other models = ignored

    multitude Motoring Journalist calling the Cruze a world class car = ignored

    ALP Deputy SA Premier calling the Cruze a Dog of a Car = moron

    Productivity Report = (proven)Biased Opinion

    Multiple other model Recalls = ignored

    TomR’s Opinion = backed by facts 😉

  149. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:28 am

    Yeah, that statement was included by me too!

    But the CFMEU has a pattern agreement, it includes a range of onerous and ambiguous process obligations that are difficult to meet. The purpose of onerous process commitments is to allow the union to allege non compliance by the employer at their whim. They then take unprotected action because of non compliance.

    It’s no wonder contractors prefer not to sign up.

    …and if Aldi seeks to bring in overseas concrete floor experts, this is probably an example of their outstanding commitment to Australian manufacturing!

  150. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:33 am

    And what the fuck does a death on a building site in Adelaide have to do with an Aldi site in Melbourne being shutdown over money problems ?

    Who says it is being shut down over “money” problems?

  151. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:34 am

    SPC Ardmona’s $22 million lifeline from the Victorian government seems to have saved Australia’s largest food packaging company.

    http://theconversation.com/spc-ardmonas-bailout-is-crucial-given-chinas-food-safety-record-22850

    fer nil 😉

  152. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:37 am

    But the CFMEU has a pattern agreement, it includes a range of onerous and ambiguous process obligations that are difficult to meet.

    You mean like in the areas of safety. Perhaps to ensure that a wall is supported substantially enough so a freak wind won’t blow it over?

    Those sort of “onerous and ambiguous process obligations”?

  153. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:40 am

    Watch and laugh as yabots little keystone commission gets pwned by Doug Cameron

    “I read it in the oz”

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  154. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:41 am

    Qantas, a success story ROFL

  155. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:43 am

    But Aldi is a shining example of board room confidence in Australian heavy manufacturing!

    It’s particularly relevant to the motor vehicle sector.

    Apparently

  156. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:44 am

    A $3 BILLION turnaround .

    Go Joyce!

  157. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:49 am

    A $3 BILLION turnaround .

    Yes, but look at the price.

  158. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 11:02 am

    Businesses have to take decisive corrective action if they are failing.

    That’s what Joyce did. He also addressed some of the structural problems that had plagued Qantas since the government sold it almost 20 years ago.

  159. December 9, 2014 11:02 am

    Watch and laugh as yabots little keystone commission gets pwned by Doug Cameron

    priceless Tom..

    Like everything About Abbott it don’t add ad up… Budget, justification, truth, promise…

    Maybe the Commission of Audit should go through Walrus’s taxes if he has such faith in their professional ability….

  160. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 11:15 am

    Maybe the Commission of Audit should go through Walrus’s taxes

    Like he has taxes. He’s in the most subsidised industry of them all.

  161. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 11:25 am

    “”He’s in the most subsidised industry of them all.””

    Got a Link for that.

    Of course not……………………………….as usual

  162. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 11:40 am

    Of course not……………………………….as usual

    Why do you say that, when you know I’m always good for it 😉

    https://theconversation.com/is-supporting-the-car-industry-so-expensive-compared-to-our-heavily-subsidised-lives-13386

    although maybe not the most (I reckon mining still takes that, but finance ain’t that far behind)

  163. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 11:58 am

    “”Why do you say that, when you know I’m always good for it ;)””

    Like I said…………..you are not good for it.

    I’m not in Finance (Banks etc)………..I’m an accountant and all your very poorly put together link does is name accountants without specifying a single example of a subsidy specific to that profession.

    Like I said………….you always lack evidence for your claims

  164. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 12:04 pm

    I’m an accountant and all your very poorly put together link does is name accountants without specifying a single example of a subsidy specific to that profession.

    Sorry it wasn’t comprehensive enough fer ya?

    So, you don’t use tax loopholes to offset your taxation?

    Even though you have bragged here before (numerous times) about doing so?

    What is it with glorified public servants 😉

  165. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 12:11 pm

    How is a tax loophole a subsidy ?

    You might as well say a double tax treaty is a subsidy or the plumber who repairs the roof of your business is subsidised because he’s tax deductible.

    Your arguments are just long winded crap

    “”Even though you have bragged here before (numerous times) about doing so?””

    Give me an example that you’d class as a subsidy ?

  166. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 12:13 pm

    … if a company and its workforce expects taxpayer handouts …

    Btter than just the BOOs! Anyway, ToM …

    And WTF is an – “overtime and manning rort” … both are under the purview of management …

    Management asks workers to work overtime (and agrees to the conditions via awards) … the real problem you have is a that you’ve no experience of being on the shop floor … some demands are silly … but often what seems sill also has merit from another perspective …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    There was some talk earlier in the year of giving Qantas and SPC some govt help. They did not get any govt help and seem to be doing OK.

    Three international flights return to base is not doing OK … Joyce needs to go … now …

    Businesses have to take decisive corrective action if they are failing.

    Well let’s hope that “decisive corrective action” doesn’t cost lives in an airline that has an impeccable safety record … three “incidents”** racks up on that OH&S triangle that you put up a little while ago … if you understand the concept properly …

    **Particularly so close together …

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    Building industry sources said the union had a long-running battle with Aldi for bringing in international experts to oversee the German company’s specific method of laying its concrete floors to provide extra strength.

    That is actually fkn funny … I’d bet against an Aussie concreter in Oz against a German any day … and a German over an Oz in Germany …

    BTW, ToM, you should know that AS/NZ are some of the best/toughest in the world … I’d like to see the “specific method” …

  167. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 12:17 pm

    Give me an example that you’d class as a subsidy ?

    Negative Gearing

    Family Trusts

    PPL

    Post Political Perqs

    Taxpayers propping up banks

    Forcing small business to have their taxes verified by accountants

    How many do you fkn want …

  168. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 12:20 pm

    “”How many do you fkn want …””

    Specific to accountants……..knucklehead.

    Everything you have named is available to everybody. Next time read the prior posts

  169. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 12:30 pm

    Like I said TomR………………….

    “”Got a Link for that.

    Of course not……………………………….as usual””

    .

  170. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2014 12:32 pm

  171. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 12:35 pm

    “”Forcing small business to have their taxes verified by accountants “”

    How are businesses “forced” ?

    They are not forced anymore than you are forced to go to a medical expert (subsidised by the way) to have a mole on your back checked.

    Why don’t you just judge for yourself and take the risk ?

    A small business is quite free to lodge its own tax return. No one forces them to go to an accountant to ensure tax compliance.

  172. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 12:51 pm

    “”Got a Link for that.””

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz………………………still waiting !

  173. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 1:00 pm

    How many do you fkn want …

    MORE!!

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz………………………still waiting !

    for another link I suppose.

    Of course, if it’s not from random posters on a whinge site, it aint real ROFL

    And of course, it MUST be “specific”

    Which is what makes the car industry “subsidies” so different

    Maybe they should claim their factories “tax exempt”, like miners do with mines?

    It’s a return from the Government, you can call it what you want, but when you claim back “expenditures”, it’s my tax dollars going back at you.

    I can’t claim for my swivel chair, but I’ll bet you do.

  174. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 1:09 pm

    That’s pretty rich AO

    The Abbott government is refusing to release documents detailing the cost and purpose of overseas travel by Coalition ministers, claiming they could “cause damage to Australia’s international relations” if made public.

    Probably because they’d be embarrassed by the “waste”

    What happened to a government that will be “transparent and open” ?

  175. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 1:12 pm

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz………………………still waiting !

    You specifically named “Accountants”” as receiving subsidies and you even linked to a “”random idiot on a whinge site” which didn’t give a single example.

    So that means I’m still waiting for that Link you always claim to have ?

  176. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 1:15 pm

    “I can’t claim for my swivel chair,”

    If I knew what you were doing whilst sitting in it I’d give you an opinion if you like……………………….with an invoice 🙂

    But sorry……………….posting stupidity does not make it tax deductible

  177. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 1:16 pm

    posting stupidity does not make it tax deductible

    You’ve obviously discovered a way 😉

  178. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 1:16 pm

    “”What happened to a government that will be “transparent and open” ?””

    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm………….reminds me of the NBN cost benefit analysis

  179. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2014 2:10 pm

  180. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 2:16 pm

    Ideological warriors to the core AO. This is just amazement

    Which might lead you, gentle reader, to ask how on earth it got the gong. No surprises there either. The chief judge of the non-fiction and history awards for this year was none other than our old friend Gerard “Gollum” Henderson, ringmaster of the right-wing Sydney Institute, long-time culture impresario and an Abbott confidante. His right-hand man on the judging panel was a former Quadrant editor and Liberal MP, Peter Coleman. Ho hum. Nuff said.

    hendo, literary ROFL

  181. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 2:40 pm

    bishop may well become more embarassing on the world stage than yabot

    A big ask, but, she has pretty good lines to work with.

    FOREIGN Minister Julie Bishop will use climate talks in Peru to argue the Great Barrier Reef isn’t in danger.

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/julie-bishop-will-use-climate-talks-in-peru-to-argue-great-barrier-reef-is-not-in-danger/story-fnjwvztl-1227149615549

    One wonders if snactysmates ™ will be there with snorkels on?

    Australian reef expert Terry Hughes has said the Abbott government’s claim the reef is not in danger defies all available science.

  182. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 3:53 pm

    So the Jew hating Mike (Overflowing with Bile) Carlton pops up at Crikey these days to bash the messenger and the judges.

    Waterfront maritime disputes during WW2 have been commented upon quite a few times over the years its only now someone has documented it.

    My own father served in Timor and New Guinea and although an ALP man all his life he despised the maritime unions as did most of those serving.

  183. December 9, 2014 4:30 pm

  184. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 4:45 pm

    “”What happened to a government that will be “transparent and open” ?””

    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm………….reminds me of the NBN cost benefit analysis

    What convoluted minds walrii must have …

  185. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 4:45 pm

    Make a great gravatar … if only Wally knew how …

  186. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 4:49 pm

    “”… if only Wally knew how …””

    You obviously do not recall that I had an avatar under my cunning disguise of JAWS in a previous WordPress life.

    I prefer to travel “commando”” these days

  187. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 4:52 pm

    Good to see Dutton & The Abbot rehearsed their lines together …

    Mr Abbott said: “I think they (doctors) will acknowledge this is a significantly better package than what was brought at budget time.

    “The decision crystallised late last week and was supported by the Cabinet this morning.”

    Mr Dutton said that doctors would “acknowledge this is a significantly better package than what was brought at Budget time.”

    “Sure this is a change but a very carefully targeted change which is all about giving the families in Australia the best possible deal,” he said.

    Let’s play Blackmail the Doctors … what this cretin Credlin and The Abbott don’t get is that passing the pain onto doctors may seem clever to them but people will be even more pissed off once they work out what’s happening …

    Have no doubt … this is not about $7.00 or $5.00 its about ideology … the LNP thinks anyone who doesn’t vote for them must be the unwashed dumb …

    Noddy Newman looks like he’s going down next …

    What bothers me is who takes the wheel after Noddy and The Abbott drown in their sorrow …

  188. December 9, 2014 4:59 pm

  189. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2014 5:00 pm

    They do it with such a brazen fraud upon history and the australian people tomR, that is the problem. Propaganda disguised as serious literature, they have no shame at all.

    http://dailyreview.crikey.com.au/the-ideology-reigniting-the-history-wars-at-pms-literary-awards/16665?utm_source=The+Rundown&utm_campaign=d5965e86d1-The_Rundown_Tuesday_9_December9_12_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_33b9e8bf4f-d5965e86d1-80996373

    …One does not need to be credentialed to write good history, says Macintyre. But one does need to consult the National Archive when making an argument that precious hours were lost to industrial action. “Based on my previous readings of Colebatch in Quadrant and my own research, the argument is moonshine.”

    According to Macintyre, Colebatch’s assertion that Australian man-hours were needlessly haunted by the spectre of communism during World War II can be easily refuted by recourse to research. Industrial accidents were significantly more lethal to Australian wartime efforts than industrial action and there were “more hours lost in the US and the UK on a population basis” than due to industrial action locally.

    But good historiography was not the point last night. Reigniting the History Wars seemed to be the statement made…

    Surprise! Fact-checking Abbott’s pre-election promises:
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/12/08/surprise-fact-checking-abbotts-pre-election-promises/

    …It worked so well, in fact, that Abbott was elected on the back of a very specific credo: “There will be no surprises and no excuses from a Coalition government”. Perhaps circumstances have changed, or perhaps he has been haunted by the belated realisation that the internet is written in ink…

  190. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 5:01 pm

    “”My own father served in Timor and New Guinea and although an ALP man all his life he despised the maritime unions as did most of those serving.”

    And this is exactly why my father despised them………………

    “”The 2nd/2nd Commandos embarking at Darwin for Timor in December 1941, had their delicate radios thrown into the ship’s holds by watersiders who were annoyed their beer had not been unloaded.

    They were written off after the Japanese invaded and if they had not been able to steal enough batteries and parts from the enemy to build another radio (“Winnie the War-Winner”, now in the National War Memorial) they would have perished.””

    http://nationalobserver.net/2003_winter_111.htm

    Mike Carlton is such an ignorant cnut

  191. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 5:27 pm

    Mike Carlton is such an ignorant cnut

    As ignorant as everyone else who has dismembered this work of fiction?

    Here’s a thought, why not provide proof of the claims in the book, instead of assertions from a right wing ideologue

    So, radios were broken, in a time of war, and someone thought it was because of “harsh treatment” 😯

    really, your fucken with us all aren’t ya wall-e?

  192. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 5:32 pm

    One good thing about Carlton, he calls them out when they spout off

  193. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 5:43 pm

    I prefer to travel “commando”” these days

    What a gawdawful image that is …

  194. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 5:59 pm

    And of course TomR the fact that some of our merchant ships were sunk by mines had nothing to do with Unions refusing to fit them out with mine detection equipment.

    Although some boofhead called John Curtin pointed it out to the Advisory War Council minute No. 130

    http://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/historical/

    But he probably complained about his Holden Cruze if he was around today.

    Contemporary evidence and masses of anecdotal evidence count for nothing in TomR World

  195. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 6:03 pm

    “”Industrial accidents were significantly more lethal to Australian wartime efforts than industrial action “”

    What a stupid statement !

    That’s because the latter one can be directly measurable whilst the former cannot.

    Things can tend to go BANG when handling or manufacturing high explosives.

  196. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 6:08 pm

    That’s because the latter one can be directly measurable whilst the former cannot.

    Stick to tax … Willy …

  197. December 9, 2014 6:22 pm

    Bolt’s been wanking over the History Wars again today too.

    As ideologically driven as expected. G. Henderson, the model of impartiality. Not a concerted smear against Unionism at all. 🙄

  198. December 9, 2014 6:24 pm

    “the former cannot. ”

    Most every employer I’ve ever had would beg to differ.

  199. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 6:28 pm

    “”Most every employer I’ve ever had would beg to differ.””

    Ooops………………my bad. I got it around the wrong way

  200. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 6:30 pm

    “”What a gawdawful image that is …””

    It clears restaurant tables wherever I enter

  201. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 6:32 pm

    Contemporary evidence and masses of anecdotal evidence count for nothing in TomR World

    Well, if he had evidence, it would be worth it, unfortunately …..

    I agree completely, looking at the stories from the book he and others have written about online, it appears he (and his publisher) has not spent nearly enough time checking the accuracy of the stories. Even if his thesis has merit, which one may or may not think, and the majority of the stories and facts are true, his book is not worth much as a source because of the errors.

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=203176&sid=7782c2853a01ab4f6785ca5925b5496e&start=15#p1835533

    These are war nerds who have done much of the trawling that the rwdb who wrote the fictional tale should have.

    I won’t claim there weren’t strikes, and I won’t claim that perhaps not all were justified. But this book is quite obviously a load of bollocks, full of rw re-writing of history. No wonder the redknecks in charge love it. They don’t need reality to comfort them.

  202. December 9, 2014 6:52 pm

    ”””I thought you were “in” on all this shit yomm?”””

    The only thing yomm is `in` TomR, is his Tinfoil Cubicle with a copy of the McKrusty-burger hand-book. Challenge him on any `specific` detail to provide (as the many above) and he goes to water. He can`t even maintain arguments `he` raised. Watch.

    So yomm, you claim wages should rise with cpi.? okay, what dollar-value should be the starting point.? specifically.? for an aussie to actually be able to afford to live here.? conditions.? holidays. full-time.?

  203. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 7:18 pm

    So yomm, you claim wages should rise with cpi.? okay, what dollar-value should be the starting point.? specifically.? for an aussie to actually be able to afford to live here.? conditions.? holidays. full-time.?

  204. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2014 7:18 pm

    Read the comment F**KWIT

  205. December 9, 2014 7:22 pm

    it seems our resident feminista is enjoying her minister for her affairs 🙂

  206. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2014 7:22 pm

    QUIZ:

    Joe was in his office singing and dancing to “the best day of my life” when he brought his toxic budget down.

    What is he singing now?

  207. December 9, 2014 7:28 pm

    What is he singing now?

    What a difference a day makes….?

  208. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 7:30 pm

    And of course TomR the fact that some of our merchant ships were sunk by mines had nothing to do with Unions refusing to fit them out with mine detection equipment.

    WTF! Where does that come from …

    I’d also suggest a little more research on unions stoppages in WWII before your flippers are tied into a very tight knot …

  209. December 9, 2014 7:33 pm

    this attempted transfer of blame from mr-rabbit to quacks is highly stupid by the zombies, making every quacks office and medical center around the country an ””anti-teabag”” rally point, l bet noddy starts squealing about mr-rabbit fcuking his chances(what-left-of`em) for re-election

  210. December 9, 2014 7:48 pm

    ””””””””””””Still waiting for @Mirandadevine to contest the facts in my Crikey piece. She seems to gone sullenly silent. — Mike Carlton (@MikeCarlton01) December 9, 2014”””

    #why the fcuk does carlton give a rats-arse about what mandy-d `says` or `thinks`.?
    # she does both under instruction (from-rupert) anyway

  211. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 7:49 pm

    WTF! Where does that come from …

    It comes from…guess who 😉

    http://www.nationalobserver.net/2004_summer_112.htm

    Yep, the guy who hears a story, a titbit, and, ignoring anything constituting “context”, draws the conclusion he made before locating that titbit

    Then calls it “history”

    It is even more remarkable after listening to the Dan Carlton podcasts on the First World War recently, and makes me kind of ashamed that not only does our grubmint condone this bastardization of history, they actively encourage and reward it.

  212. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 8:03 pm

    But, enough digression into what is quite obviously simply another union bashing attempt by a chaotic, shambolic grubmint, and back to these changes to the medicare co-payment attempting to be rammed through

    This passage in particular caught the eye of my wife, who has been forced to make more visits to the doctor than anyone should, but who as a result is quite conversant with their ways.

    Mr Abbott also stressed that to get the full Medicare rebate, doctors would have to see patients for a minimum of 10 minutes — up from the current six minutes — under what he called a “quality control measure”.

    ….

    He told reporters that doctors will continue to be encouraged to bulk bill pensioners and children aged under 16, while adults who do not carry a concession card will be charged at the doctor’s discretion.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-announces-changes-to-7-medicare-co-payment/story-fncynjr2-1227150112844

    The way that is written, it appears that only pensioners and children aged under 16 (and veterans and nursing home patients) will be able to claim the full Medicare rebate. But, at the same time, only doctors who see patients for a minimum of 10 minutes will claim the full Medicare rebate?

    I know from all our local GPs that visits are scheduled at 5 minutes each (which explains the current six minutes), but raising this to ten minutes immediately disqualifies EVERYONE, regardless of if you are a pensioner etc?

    It is only in a very few cases that Dr’s will schedule a double appointment, and only for a very few procedures

    Does this little 6-10 minutes effectively put the ability to get the full Medicare rebate out of everybody’s reach? And does it also raise the prospect of people attempting to book double visits just to get prescriptions filled etc (which I know the Dr will do, so stories must be made up)

    Interesting to see if that is how it would operate?

  213. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2014 8:10 pm

  214. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2014 8:14 pm

  215. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2014 8:16 pm

  216. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 8:18 pm

    Interesting to see if that is how it would operate?

    And how the electorate will react to an government that gets sneakier (with the people on the wrongs side of the track) by the hour!

  217. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2014 8:30 pm

    TR, what the LNP are doing is screwing the doctors because they objected to the original co-payment … and anyway doctors have a degree so they will earn 75% more than anyone else** …

    ** tradies on six figures must be pissing themselves at that little gem! (BTW, who constitutes “anyone else”? And what about all the undergrads without work … especially the thousands of engineers made redundant in the mining industry …

    Infrastructure would ease the problem but all The Abbott does is blurt about $50 billion after over a year in office and not a sod turned …

    And I’m sick of hearing that The Abbott government has scrapped the Med Co payment … that’s …

  218. December 9, 2014 8:53 pm

    ”””’I’d also suggest a little more research on””#everything

    # Agree TB, l suppose we can look forward to you-know-who dropping never-ending Colebatch quotes in the future too.

  219. December 9, 2014 9:41 pm

    ”””””””’The Abbott government is refusing to release documents detailing the cost and purpose of overseas travel by Coalition ministers, claiming they could “cause damage to Australia’s international relations” if made public.

    The government-wide clampdown comes after embarrassing details of Education Minister Christopher Pyne’s lavish trip to London and Rome with his wife were revealed by Fairfax Media in September.
    http://m.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/release-of-ministerial-travel-costs-could-damage-our-international-standing-government-claims-20141208-121xca.html
    ”””””””””””””””””””’
    # more likely, while telling everybody else to belt-tighten during fake-budget emergency, team-teabag is living it up in a high-end way on taxpayer cash

  220. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:47 pm

    “WTF! Where does that come from …”

    Some idiot called Curtin in a AWC Minute apparently

    Go read the Link I put up

  221. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:52 pm

    TR, what the LNP are doing is screwing the doctors because they objected to the original co-paymen”

    No, what they are trying to do is fix up a trashed budget which your vote in 2007 caused. Anybody who thinks the GFC had anything to do with the current budget problems is a fool. Just look at what the ALP has dome to budgets, State or Federal since 1980. All the GFC did was speed up what always happens to budgets with the ALP in control.

    But in lefty laa laa land we have no budget emergency and debt is not a problem.

  222. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2014 9:57 pm

    Im still waiting for that Link specific to accountants TomR

    Where is it ?

    Or perhaps you are full of shit ?

  223. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:06 pm

    Im still waiting for that Link specific to accountants TomR

    You got your link. Not my problem if you think a guy with a degree is wrong.

    At least it wasn’t from a bunch of random morons griping about their cars. ROFL

    So, your government subsidised chair still rotating 😉

  224. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2014 10:09 pm

    Some idiot called Curtin in a AWC Minute apparently

    in a heavily redacted, out of context, of the cuff comment that could have really meant anything, but we’ll never know.

    (btw, your link went to a page of links, which leads pages of links. Perhaps you could be a little more ‘specific”)

  225. December 9, 2014 10:15 pm

    ”””what they are trying to do is fix up a trashed budget”””
    ”””budget emergency and debt”””

    you mean the LABOR-DEBT-DOUBLED-BY-TEABAGS-DEBT

    got anything new to say #teabag

  226. December 9, 2014 10:55 pm

    I’m not engaging with broken records,

    #talkingpointsareboring

  227. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2014 11:03 pm

    No, what they are trying to do is fix up a trashed budget which your vote in 2007 caused.

    Neil has a deficit fetish [amongst others]

    http://johnquiggin.com/2014/12/01/deficit-fetishism/

    …Billion dollar numbers are big and scary, but some perspective is useful. Australia’s GDP is currently $1.6 trillion dollars per year, so the massive deficit is about 2 per cent of GDP. On Deloitte’s current “disastrous” predictions, the deficit should be below 1 per cent of GDP by 2017-18.

    But wait, there’s more. Australian government debt is currently about 20 per cent of GDP. It has been around this ratio, varying with the business cycle, for many years. Since GDP grows at around 5 per cent a year in nominal terms, the debt/GDP ratio stays unchanged if debt also grows by 5 per cent, that is, if deficits are equal to 1 per cent of GDP (that is, 5 per cent of 20 per cent).

    Simply put, the budget is so close to balance that it doesn’t matter…

    …As always, there are long term problems that need to be addressed. But absurd panics about whether a (necessarily arbitrary) budget measure is a little above or a little below zero don’t help…

    The only thing the libs need to fix is themselves. Don’t lie, do what you promise – how hard is that? Don’t expect to coast into office on a fraud and take the voters hostage to your ideology. When will they understand, people are absolutely sick of it.

    http://johnquiggin.com/2014/12/04/broken-promises-and-budget-anger/

    …It is, of course, impossible to wish away the changes of the past thirty years. Equally, there is no reason to take those changes as permanent and irrevocable. The growth of the financial sector and the redistribution of power and resources to the top 1 per cent of the income distribution have not, as promised, delivered improved outcomes for all. In most developed countries, the outcomes have been disastrous.

    Thanks to a combination of good luck, good management and a comparatively resilient commitment to fairness Australia has avoided much of the growing inequality and poverty seen in countries like the US and UK. Rather than mindlessly pursuing the deregulatory policy agenda of the 1980s, we should be looking for ways in which governments can in fact do more for voters in general, even if this means doing less for the financial sector and for wealth elites.

    The Abbott government is clearly not up to this task, and Labor has a long way to go before it can begin to tackle it. But until the political class accepts the need to meet the wishes of the electorate, the chaotic mess before us will remain the norm in Australian politics…

  228. December 10, 2014 1:02 am

    Wow Teabags! Even Limited-News is parroting me.
    And we all know if Limited-News says it, it `must` be true.

    ”””””””””””report reveals an increasing gap between haves and have nots has knocked almost nine percentage points off gross domestic product in the UK, 10 in Mexico and New Zealand and between six and seven in the US, Italy and Sweden in the two decades pre-GFC.
    http://mobile.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/wealth-gap-hinders-growth/story-e6frfkui-1227150496344
    ”””””””””””””’

    # Fancy that, Teabags!
    The one thing l noticed they omitted was `consumer-base` erosion, which should be included l reckon. lt plays a reasonable part in biz+consumer confidence, new jobs and the rest of the economy.

  229. December 10, 2014 3:10 am

    But in lefty Liars laa laa land we have no a budget emergency and debt is not a problem.

    Thank fuck you are catching on…

  230. Meta permalink
    December 10, 2014 3:19 am

    (Just as an interlinked thought, and returning to a pseudo-bilbo-esque outlook on the Smaugonwealth of Oztralia briefly, since it’s quantum this and that (re)circulating in discussion. Theoretically, monetary systems are (im)measurably (in)valuable, insofar as they necessarily supply an accounting unit of value and an exchange value; but how much is, say, the dollar-sign, and the entire monetary system which it denotes, actually worth to those who might otherwise be dealing in/with near-meaningless bare-digits; even and especially when invoice issues and issued invoices seemingly are become an exemplary question of exchange value (p(re)payment for service(s) nominally rendered?)

  231. Meta permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:26 am

    (“— under what he called a “quality control measure””

    Never mind; the (rationale for) the newly ‘crystallized’ package, unlike its manifestly deficient and now-quasi-abandoned predecessor, is strongly supported by, and publicly fleshed-out with, in-depth modelling and well-evidenced explanation of the qualities and quantities of (un)intended healthcare pitfalls and pearls; which, ultimately, for sake of present argument, is what counts in a(n) (universal) (public) healthcare system; and, presumably, ad hoc modification(s) of quantity(ies)-as-a-systemic-quality can but co-contribute to efficacy in/of (the) healthcare (system) overall.

    Or, “TR, what the LNP are doing is screwing the doctors” (just riffing off the quotelet, ‘cuz I know you already know), may not be entirely accurate, if what’s being attempted, directly or indirectly, still is quality screwing of the Public in quantity (with/out sufficient control, in every sense of the word).

    And again, “[t]his policy isn’t as unfair as the original version, but it will undermine bulk-billing for most patients – which was always its political point”; but what of its individual, local, general, and systemic health(care) effect(s)?)

  232. December 10, 2014 6:16 am

    (For Certain; Dr Hobson and Dr Poll will deliver Essential Co-Message to Patient Voters.)

  233. December 10, 2014 6:45 am

    ”””””””’Some people only have uni larnin’ and no street wise prac …

    Always amuses me that a dick with a uni degree and no practical experience at getting his/her hands dirty will be “listened” to and more often than not fail””””

    While others have a tinfoil cubicle, a krusty-burger junior manager handbook, and pretend they work for bluescope.

  234. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 6:57 am

    Smaugonwealth of Oztralia

    🙂

    manifestly deficient and now-quasi-abandoned predecessor

    But, but, the papers all said “dumped!”. Mind you, yabot said this one is even better. Perhaps this one should get voted down just so they can come up with an even better one than this one?

    may not be entirely accurate,

    If by that you mean they left out the bit where the recently screwed over Doctors will be forced to screw over patients on behalf of the grubmint, then I feel you are right. Mind you, phrasing it like that reminisces me of another “Great Big New tax” (in the colloquial) that a once opposition and a once vocal media reminded users constantly would be passed on by produces to consumers.

    The largest difference I recall was that the consumers were amply compensated for one, but whacked by another

    #talkingpointsareboring

    Yet nil sticks with them [sigh]

  235. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 7:01 am

    Julie Bishop has intensified diplomatic efforts to avoid the Great Barrier Reef being deemed “in danger”

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/09/julie-bishop-lobbying-stop-great-barrier-reef-listed-in-danger

    It’s genius really. Don’t bother with actually protecting the reef, but instead, spend your energies protecting it from being labelled not protected 😯

    Didn’t someone refer to the previous Government being nothing but spin?

  236. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 7:18 am

    I see Billsave Shorten gave a nice little backhander to the press gallery. Not as pointed as “Don’t Write Shit”, but just as accurate.

    I also want to acknowledge our friends in the press gallery. We all benefit from your hindsight!

    Bill Shorten, Valedictory, Dec 4th 2014

    Nicely picked up by Heath Aston in the Age (not that he has been a shining light in this area either from what I have observed)

    How things have changed since budget day 2014, just over six months ago.

    A review of newspaper editorials from budget week reveals the nation’s major papers largely failed to anticipate the strength of the backlash to the first Hockey budget.

    There was little sign the government’s fiscal blueprint would come to be viewed as the most “unfair” budget in decades and its most controversial elements would still be marooned in the Senate by the end of the parliamentary year.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/the-budget-backlash-the-newspapers-did-not-see-coming-20141208-11ymq2.html

  237. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 8:03 am

    Our international rep is becoming quite cemented.

    Last year in Warsaw, our delegation worked behind the scenes to sabotage a 2015 global agreement. International observers were aghast. “There is no intention for Australia to be in any way constructive or really participate in these talks,” Wendel Trio, European director of the Climate Action Network, told respected energy journalist Giles Parkinson at the time.

    It’s no surprise to hear complaints that Australia is again trying to derail talks; the French negotiators working towards the Paris meeting are apparently planning to keep Australia sidelined if possible.

    The visceral anti-environmentalism of the Abbott government is making Australia an international pariah. It was our disruptive role at Warsaw that helped turn international opinion on climate against Australia, planting the seeds for the G20 humiliation of Tony Abbott on the issue in Brisbane.

    https://newmatilda.com/2014/12/09/electorate-going-cold-abbotts-climate-change-sabotage

    The above has a link to this great cartoon, which pretty much sums up the situation

  238. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 10:24 am

    “”There is no intention for Australia to be in any way constructive or really participate in these talks,” Wendel Trio, European director of the Climate Action Network

    Excellent………………….a pissed off Greenie.

    We are obviously on the right track then. Bring on Peru

  239. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 10:26 am

    “”the French negotiators working towards the Paris meeting are apparently planning to keep Australia sidelined if possible.””

    So if we are being treated like a pariah anyway why sideline us ?

    Or perhaps our arguments are far too persuasive LOL

  240. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 11:43 am

    Or, “TR, what the LNP are doing is screwing the doctors” (just riffing off the quotelet, ‘cuz I know you already know), may not be entirely accurate, if what’s being attempted, directly or indirectly, still is quality screwing of the Public in quantity (with/out sufficient control, in every sense of the word)

    Exactly meta, the medicare merry-go-round is all about screwing the public and getting rid of universal healthcare, something the libs have always hated.

    I heard the zombie peter dutton talking on ABC radio this morning, telling us that we can’t afford ‘free’ healthcare. I wondered why Labor never immediately refutes that statement by pointing out that it is not free, we pay our medicare levy, a tax to sustain medicare and what the Libs propose is a tax on an existing tax. I also wondered how they can argue the unsustainability of medicare and the urgent fix needed for the future when there is the huge elephant of unsustainable climate change blowing it’s trumpet in the background, which they have no concern about at all.

    Dutton also misrepresented the Drs when he said it was supported by them.

    This shows that it is pure ideology and nothing to do with the cost of medicare [besides the $ not going back into medicare anyway].
    Another ‘smoke and mirrors’ liberal party scam on the people to undermine a valued healthcare system supported by nearly all australians and envied the world over. A con to turn it into the economic rationalists beloved ‘user pays’ ideology that will make billions for their wealthy mates and themselves as they rush to get their snouts into the trough..

    NEW COPAYMENT KICK IN GUTS FOR WORKING AUSTRALIANS
    http://www.drs.org.au/articles-resources/media-releases/new-copayment-kick-in-guts-for-working-australians.aspx

    …The announcement that the proposed $7 GP copayment will be replaced by a $5 rebate cut to GPs when they see non pensioners and concession card holders is a kick in the guts to working Australians, said Dr Tim Woodruff of the Doctors Reform Society.

    This is clearly aimed at keeping patients away from the doctor, said Dr Woodruff. This is forcing working Australians to pay twice for health care (once through taxes and then through the copayment) or not see the doctor. We doctors do not want patients to avoid seeing us with what to them might appear to be minor complaints but are really signs of serious disease, said Dr Woodruff. But this appears to be what rich politicians from the Government want.

    This puts the pressure on doctors to decide who are the ‘deserving poor’ and forces doctors to cross subsidise care if they do want to bulk bill a non pensioner.

    The $5 co-payment may not seem like much to a rich politician but multiple $5 do mean a lot to a low income worker. In addition, many doctors will move from bulk billing to charging more than $5 as they recoup the costs of charging copayments…

  241. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:01 pm

    So if we are being treated like a pariah anyway why sideline us ?

    Because that’s how pariahs are treated, at a diplomatic level.

  242. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:15 pm

    “”………….. we pay our medicare levy, a tax to sustain medicare ……….””

    You seriously believe the medicare levy covers the cost of Health Care ?

    ROFLMAO

  243. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:33 pm

    You seriously believe the medicare levy covers the cost of Health Care ?

    I’m pretty sure that isn’t what your quote from AO says wall-e

    #justsayin 😉

  244. December 10, 2014 4:01 pm

    ””””””””””””’the zombie peter dutton talking on ABC radio this morning, telling us that we can’t afford ‘free’ healthcare””’

    The zombies will continue to keep well stoked cash bonfires for off-shore gulags, flying F35 trashcans and combat misadventures, all of which, the public could live without. However, something the public `actually` needs, wants and uses, yep, you guessed it, the zombies are stridently against.

    That will be of course, until some catastrophic failure occurs(which will all be joolya`s fault) like a `super-bug` outbreak and the zombies reach for `antidote` stockpile, which our zombies maintain as rigorously as teh-usa. Everything`s Fine.

  245. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 4:42 pm

    “” I wondered why Labor never immediately refutes that statement by pointing out that it is not free, we pay our medicare levy, a tax to sustain medicare and what the Libs propose is a tax on an existing tax.”” – AO

    “”I’m pretty sure that isn’t what your quote from AO says wall-e””

    Like how is that not a statement implying the levy sustains Medicare. It falls well short of completely funding it.

  246. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:09 pm

    Like how is that not a statement implying the levy sustains Medicare. It falls well short of completely funding it.

    Because, as you say, it says “sustains”, it does not say it completely funds it.

    I know, words can be so meddlesome at times 😉

  247. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:21 pm

    “”sustain

    transitive verb
    1. to keep in existence; keep up; maintain or prolong: to sustain a mood
    2. to provide for the support of; specif., to provide sustenance or nourishment for””

    So you are now arguing that the Levy keeps it in existence.

    Bullshit it does.

    Billions of other taxpayer funds are required “to keep in existence””

    AO implies the Levy fully funds it

  248. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:24 pm

    So you are now arguing that the Levy keeps it in existence.

    No, it helps keep it in existence.

    Does it say in anywhere you looked that it “completely” sustains it? I looked, but I couldn’t see “completely” anywhere.

    support, yes, completely cover, not so much 😉

  249. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:36 pm

    “”No, it helps keep it in existence.””

    Where does the definition say it “helps”” ?…………it doesn’t

    It clearly says “” keep in existence; keep up; maintain or prolong””

    There is no “helps””

    Cant you read ?

  250. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 6:20 pm

    Where does the definition say it “helps””

    Where it says “supports” or “props”

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sustain

  251. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 11:00 pm

    So Helps now equals supports which equals sustains does it ?

  252. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 1:08 am

    ffs wally, must you drag every debate down to semantics every time? You bluster and bellyache about all the little things and completely miss the entire gist of the debate!
    what is wrong with you?

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/raising-medicare-levy-the-solution-to-health-costs-says-architect-20140131-31shn.html

    …In an interview with Fairfax Media to mark the 30th anniversary of the establishment of the scheme, Professor Deeble said: “In a rich country, in an advanced society, anything is sustainable if the society says it is.”…

    😛

    …Neal Blewett, who was health minister when Medicare was introduced, said the Abbott government would pay heavily if it undermined Medicare.

    “The Liberals never managed to win an election in the 1980s and 1990s until they committed themselves to Medicare,” he said. “[They] need to remember that; that there’s a very strong commitment in the community to Medicare.”…

  253. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 8:14 am

    what is wrong with you?

    Too busy working out other ways the grubmint can subsidise his existence would be top of the list I’d presume AO 😉

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  254. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 8:45 am

    That’s really a best case scenario too toliet. My guess is, if this should pass, bulk billing will die.

    That’s my guess anyway.

  255. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 10:38 am

    No, it helps keep it in existence.

    Just as the Tax Laws keep you in existence … 20% across the board for all taxpayers with no claims oughta fix that … I see they’re working on negative gearing …

    You may prefer to simply sit around leech off the system but being part of a society means sharing … just being part of an economy means … $-)

    I’m sure, Willie Wanker, actually lives underwater …

  256. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 10:39 am

    That’s really a best case scenario too toliet. My guess is, if this should pass, bulk billing will die.

    pretty sure that’s the plan.

  257. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:07 am

    Summary

    Lefties do not give a stuff about Australia.

  258. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:08 am

    So will my kids have to pay a co-payment each time their kids go to school next year?

    (Catholic schools would be exempt of course)

  259. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:08 am

    “”You may prefer to simply sit around leech off the system but being part of a society means sharing “”

    Like Pirate Bay shares its movies with you or whoever it is. Is that stealing or leeching ?

    Plus it likely supports organised crime. Google “”Piracy and Organised Crime””

    How does investing in a gun development company sit with your stupid “”I’d rather live in a Society than an Economy”…………………….Greed triumphs over your usual hypocrisy.

    How could you possibly have the gall to call yourself a Self Funded Retiree when you have your hand out at Centrelink.

    What a hypocrite and a complete bore you are !

  260. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:09 am

    Summary

    Righties do not give a stuff about Australians.

  261. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:10 am

    “Righties do not give a stuff about Australians.”

    Bit of a generalisation there.

  262. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:11 am

    “”…..must you drag every debate down to semantics every time?””

    Nah………that would be the Village Idiot.

    I just rebuffed what you said and he went hair splitting. Kinda like the Carbon Tax v Carbon Price argument

  263. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:34 am

    Chuckle …

    1. Pirate Bay was raided on Wednesday … be back up in a month.

    And you didn’t couldn’t find me a copy of GoT Season 4 in BD because there is none available till next March … even Fuckwit Turnbull will tell you the Foxtel Greed Model is unsound and soon to be challenged by Netflix …

    As for paying … you obviously don’t read my movie reviews … quite happy to buy if I CAN … like most Aussies … why would I pay $25 a month to watch 12 shows a year … even you can work that out … and Foxtel has a shitload of advertising now … on top of the exorbitant fees …

    2. Investing in technology for weapons that give Australian troops (and our allies) an edge in a firefight sits well with me … those fkn bullets hurt I’m reliably informed – dying for your country is not the goal – get the other bastards to die for theirs! (Shiny arses don’t care ’cause they always expect other people to do the WORK)

    3. As for SFR … I worked for 45 years and paid taxes every year … I have never received Compulsory Super in my life … that means that I paid taxes for 29 years till 1992 (the year compulsory super was introduced) and then went into business – 29 years paying taxes that included a component for a pension (and I don’t get a full pension) … the remaining 16 years The Minister and I earned six figures a year paying the appropriate taxes and saving for our retirement … which, BTW, was the governments’ plan and to my knowledge still is … and as you well know I’ve only been receiving a pension for two years … The Minister, has just received her pension card … and due to the way the pension is calculated we shall both receive less …

    Now, if you are as knowledgeable about tax you should have know all that … and I suspect you did … you just hoped that others wouldn’t and you’d get away with your BS again.

    Keep tryin’ … even the monkeys may write Shakespeare in a thousand years …

    The experiment attempts to prove the theory that an infinite number of monkeys sitting at an infinite number of typewriters would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare by chance.

    https://www.google.com.au/#newwindow=1&q=100+monkeys+write+shakespeare

  264. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:35 am

    Bit of a generalisation there.

    That’s why I rephrased it … I take it you read, Kneel’s, generalisation, sb?

    Just pointing out differences as usual … wondered where you were.

  265. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:39 am

    No it is true.

    We are about to hit an iceberg and lefties want to spend more and borrow more.

    Lefites/ALP/Greens only care about themselves and their stomachs.

  266. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:42 am

    That’s why I rephrased it … I take it you read, Kneel’s, generalisation, sb?
    Just pointing out differences as usual … wondered where you were.

    No-one bothers to read kneel’s provocations do they?

  267. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:53 am

    I just rebuffed what you said and he went hair splitting

    See, there you go again. You didn’t ‘rebuff’ it, you rephrased it.

    sustain = strengthen, support, prop

    sustain != encompass

    #justsayin 😉

  268. December 11, 2014 12:29 pm

    I get the feeling that Walrus doesn’t really like TB all that much.

    But then again, he doesn’t really like a lot of people.

    All that money and so much anger.

  269. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:46 pm

    All that taxpayer subsidised money and so much anger.

    #justsayin 😉

  270. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:47 pm

    It must be the silver spoon up his arse …

    I like, Wille, he needs to be set free … weeeeeeeeeee ….

  271. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:51 pm

    “I take it you read, Kneel’s, generalisation, sb?”

    In Neil’s case mere generalisation would be a an improvement in his rhetorical technique.

  272. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 1:16 pm

    “”I get the feeling that Walrus doesn’t really like TB all that much.””

    I have no felings one way or tother about TB.

    I don’t carry on with a pretence that’s all. Unlike TB

    I know full well I can be an arsehole. I pull that card out as and when required. It goes with the territory in this profession and I tend to need a couple of decks around these parts.

    So pick a card any card !!!!!!!!!!!!

  273. December 11, 2014 1:18 pm

    “”I know full well I can be an arsehole.””

    Sage words.

    So can splatterbottom.

  274. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 1:52 pm

  275. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 2:15 pm

    “So can splatterbottom.”

    As Sir Archibald Clerk Kerr almost said:

    “We all feel like that, Rebbie, now and then, especially when Spring is upon us, but few of us would care to put it on our cards. It takes a Splatterbottom to do that.”

  276. December 11, 2014 2:22 pm

    🙂

  277. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 3:53 pm

    I don’t carry on with a pretence that’s all. Unlike TB

    LOL! Keep tryin’ , Wille, everyone else seems to get that I just write it as I see it … no pretence …. what you see is what you get …

    What do I need to pretend about … my CARDS are all face up … even, the rockshifter, found that out when he “investigated” me at home …

  278. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 4:00 pm

    Looks like a doozy of a storm about hit us! Over the CBD now.

  279. December 12, 2014 7:19 am

  280. Tom R permalink
    December 12, 2014 8:22 am

    Heavens sake Tony Abbott, your words are becoming meaningless.

    That’s because, as we have all found out now, they are.

    I saw the news last night the Ukranians in Aus lauding our #manofaction over his “shirtfronnt”

    Nobody seemed to recognise that he wimped out when the action bit came

    If he is “prepared to sweat blood” over something, be assured, nothing will happen. In fact, it’s almost a bet that whatever he is going to blood sweat for, is in for a bad time.

  281. TB Queensland permalink
    December 12, 2014 10:35 am

    However, the tension has fuelled speculation that Ms Credlin, who is married to the Liberal Party’s federal director Brian Loughnane, could leave Mr Abbott’s office and take up a seat in the House of Representatives or Senate at the 2016 election. Ms Credlin has denied she is looking at taking up a seat.

    Sounds like cronyism to me … don’t tell, ToM, we all know how upset he gets with unions BOO! Oh, wait … this is the LNP …

    And I can assure The Abbott that criticism of his chief of staff has nothing to do with sexism … Peta Credlin’s decision making is the same as his … fkn awful …

    http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-is-crying-sexism/story-fncynjr2-1227153420145

  282. Tom R permalink
    December 12, 2014 10:44 am

    I just mentioned this on the other thread TB

    Will we see the media jump to the attack on playing the “Gender Card”

    Julia Gillard was savaged in our local media with allegedly playing the “Gender Card”after the misogynist speech, while around the world the speech itself went viral. Our media proving once again just how removed from reality they are.

  283. TB Queensland permalink
    December 12, 2014 10:57 am

    TR, in fairness … check the headline for my link (why I generally use news.com.au for links) …

    As for “decision making” you could also say … fkn cruel …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Just been informed that my s/I/law may be out of work next year (he’s on a coal mine site as I write, he is a Project Manager) … they have no work …

    … where is all this $50 billion of infrastructure? That was promised before the election … all things they wouldn’t do have been attacked and the things they promised have not happened …

    1,000,000 new jobs in five years my arse … we just may lose that many … dollars down and heading for $0.75 according to Stevens and the All Ords have just taken three days of massive hits … kicked off OK this morning …

    And that’s not pretencin’ …

  284. December 12, 2014 10:59 am

    Summary

    Lefties do not give a stuff about Australia I’m an obnoxious troll cunt with the intellectual capacity of a in grown ass hair.

    Anyone that believes and supports this government is an immoral traitor and treacherous terrorist in contempt of Egalitarian Australia.. that would be Nil personified

    We are about to hit an iceberg and lefties want to spend more and borrow more.

    Yep that sums it up, nicely..

    .

  285. TB Queensland permalink
    December 12, 2014 11:04 am

    I saw The Abbott “entertaining” the President of Ukraine last night … very cosy … I do hope further investigation don’t actually prove that the MH 17 was hit by Ukrainian weapons …

  286. Tom R permalink
    December 12, 2014 11:08 am

    1,000,000 new jobs in five years my arse

    It might happen TB, but we probably should have asked for the caveat

    You know, we’ll lose 2 million full time jobs, but, in hteir place, there will be 1 million part time jobs 😉

    Always check the fine print.

    I understand our media are shy of that with a liberal opposition (mind you, they are already complaining that BillShave Shorten hasn’t got a somplete suite of policies yet)

  287. Tom R permalink
    December 12, 2014 11:10 am

    fair enough TB, I just followed your link to news.com. Some of the tweets are priceless 😉

  288. December 12, 2014 12:20 pm

    Unemployment Up
    Dollar Tanking
    Commodities tanking
    Investment slowing
    Debt rising
    Deficit blown out
    Infrastructure stalled
    Promise after promise broken
    Abbott Unpopular
    Trailing by 10 points
    Cant pass the budget
    Full of undisclosed surprises

    “exactly the government that they promised they would not be”

    By virtue of their own actions….

    Incompetent
    radical and divisive
    untrustworthy deceitfully dangerous
    ideologically destructive and vindictive
    fiscally irresponsible
    non inclusive and un-conciliatory
    socially disconnected
    partisan elitist
    unfair and heinously devoid of empathy
    directionless
    Poor communicators and unified in message
    No clear visionary imperative

    This is a dysfunctional government by all accounts. Most importantly this is a government that has failed miserably and stupendously by the standards of which that have hypocritically judged others.

  289. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 12, 2014 12:26 pm

    Actually under Hawke/Keating, 6.3% unemployment was a good number.

    When Keating won govt unemployment was at 11%.

    Too funny watching ALP supporters using unemployment rate for political purposes.

  290. Tom R permalink
    December 12, 2014 12:39 pm

    Too funny watching ALP supporters using unemployment rate for political purposes.

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    I thought this grubmint was supposed to be making things better, not worst

    Well, that’s what they told us anyways

    Guess they were just doing that talking thing again 😉

  291. December 12, 2014 1:07 pm

    Guess they were just doing that talking thing again 😉

    Yeah well grubs like Nil would eat Shit and call it cheese if it was served up by Abbott..

    Squeal cant address any of this governments incompetence without bleating on about his delusional contextually shoehorned version of the past….

    Nils is not interested in the country, just trolling a putrid version of the social engineering…
    A denial spiv affording blame to deflect his inability to defend the indefensibly incompetent…

    A meme mouthing moronic wearing out the labors fault lie blinded by blamed based hatred deeply rooted in his own personality short comings.

    Nils would have been right at the front of the line dobbing in jews and mindlessly reciting Mien Kamph… caught up in the ideological fervor of innate hatred looking for someone to blame for his pitiful life.

  292. December 13, 2014 2:18 am

    ””””””””very cosy … I do hope further investigation don’t actually prove that the MH 17 was hit by Ukrainian weapons””#lol

    So do l. l don`t think l could handle you-know-who going into full retreat and wailing the usual nonsense, `again`.
    ____________________________

    #sustain
    l agree blubbers, nothing can be `sustained` like the bottom-less pit of stupid sustains the teabags.

  293. December 13, 2014 2:24 am

    ”””””’It might happen TB, but we probably should have asked for the caveat

    You know, we’ll lose 2 million full time jobs, but, in hteir place, there will be 1 million part time jobs”’#’IN-CHINA

  294. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 13, 2014 10:57 am

    “I will sweat blood” “I give my blood oath” “I’ll write it in blood”

    seriously? what a total knob. Ooooh blood, must be reeeaaaly important!

    religious fkn nutjob.

    I think he is much more likely to be shitting bricks 😉

  295. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 13, 2014 11:05 am

  296. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 13, 2014 11:09 am

  297. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 13, 2014 11:14 am

  298. December 13, 2014 2:07 pm

  299. TB Queensland permalink
    December 13, 2014 7:00 pm

    Too funny watching ALP supporters using unemployment rate for political purposes.

    Too funny watching you stick yer head up yer arse so far … big difference between 12 years and 30! And that 30 includes John Howards wasteful years … ya know the bloke, as Treasurer, wot left the deficit to Keating …

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