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Abbott dumps toxic GP Co-payment Plan in favour of GP Co-payment Plan!

December 10, 2014

B4Y-GApCIAAPfPv

It’s a masterstroke!

In the wake of the government’s abject failure to win public backing for its controversial “GP Co-payment proposal,” Prime Minister Abbott has dumped the unpopular plan and instead replaced it with “GP Co-payment proposal.”

After seven months of political pain, Abbott finally dumped his $7 co-payment scheme after conceding it had no chance of getting through the Senate.

He unveiled a radical new policy that would see a co-payment of up to $5 levied against patients over the age of 16 who did not have a concession card.

The plan will see the Medicare rebate paid by the Government for those patients reduced from $37.10 to $32.10 from July.

Doctors would then have the “discretion’’ to raise prices by up to $5 to cover the reduced rebate, virtually guaranteeing costs will rise.

Labor indicated it would not support the new $5 payment, meaning that it could still be ruled out by the Senate, depending on crossbench support.

In a remarkable sleight of hand, Tony Abbott and Health Minister Peter Dutton passed the onus for collecting the new tax on to doctors, insisting that the co-payment is optional, and that doctors could instead simply absorb the reduced income.

“Whether the patient faces a price signal is the choice of the doctor,’’ Mr Abbott said.

However Victorian AMA president Tony Bartone said the Government was “absolutely blame-shifting.’’

“The reduced rebates represent a real and progressive reduction in doctors’ real wages,’’ he said.

The Government will also freeze the rebates for four years from July, with Dr Bartone warning that would cause a further erosion in doctors’ abilities to cover costs such as wages.

“The Government it asking us to collect $5 and saying it’s at our discretion,’’ he said.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said despite Mr Abbott’s efforts to paint the co-payment as a dead proposal, it lived on.

“This isn’t a back down — this is a GP Tax through the backdoor,’’ he said.

“It’s still a tax, it’s still a broken promise and it will only ever rise as long as Tony Abbott is Prime Minister.’’

 

 

 

 

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166 Comments leave one →
  1. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 9:26 am

    It’s a masterstroke!

    Going by the look on yabots face in that image, I thought it was the Vinegar one 😯

  2. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 9:28 am

  3. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2014 9:47 am

    The average income of a GP is around $200,000 and I don’t criticise anyone for that type of income.

    …but it is interesting to hear lefty and ALP types complaining that this represents an income reduction for people on about 3 times the average.

    If anything is “free” (ie without a direct cost paid by the direct consumer) it will be overused. So I’d prefer the price to be set at about $20, capped at $100 for pensioners etc and $1000 for everyone else. A $5 payment is hardly a signal, but maybe it’s a starting point for further change.

    (however, I’d also note that this policy represents a real breach of faith with the electorate)

  4. December 10, 2014 9:53 am

    “”If anything is “free” (ie without a direct cost paid by the direct consumer) it will be overused.””

    Not necessarily. WiFi for example.

    You can get free WiFi with a cup of coffee yet pay $30 an hour staying at a $400 a night hotel suite… Where’s the logic in that?

    But back to the GP scenario.

    What about people who only need to see a GP to get a repeat prescription. Does this mean they’ll be slugged an extra five bucks for the privilege ?

    It certainly looks like it.

  5. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 10:02 am

    …but it is interesting to hear lefty and ALP types complaining that this represents an income reduction for people on about 3 times the average.

    If you bothered reading, it is the fact that these people will pass on the cost that upsets people yomm. The GP’s will not experience any reduction in hteir salaries, of that you can be sure.

    Does this mean they’ll be slugged an extra five bucks for the privilege ?

    I actually think it will be far in excess of that reb, as they are changing the times from 6 minutes to ten, which means that a far lesser rate will be paid for 6 minutes, but, as mentioned above, I cannot see a GP taking a pay cut to compensate.

    In fact, I can see many abandoning bulk billing all if the numbers here are correct

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2014/12/09/essential-research-53-47-to-labor-5/#comment-2094042

  6. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 10:05 am

    Just to recall 😉

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlF84H7CQAANZnr.jpg:large

  7. December 10, 2014 10:07 am

    “”as they are changing the times from 6 minutes to ten””

    Oh great, so I get to talk about the weather for ten minutes when all I want is a fkn script!

  8. December 10, 2014 10:08 am

  9. Meta permalink
    December 10, 2014 10:22 am

    (Me being me, I’d probably still advocate for especial targetting of an ‘increasing retirement age’ cohort for an enhanced price-signal to discourage overuse of professional differential-diagnostic and early-intervention help-seeking, too; particularly if I were considering development of a direct action, upwhen-in-the-nevernever medical research fund as a notional alternative to an evidence-led, decommissioned paradigm.)

  10. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 10:31 am

    “Whether the patient faces a price signal is the choice of the doctor,’’ Mr Abbott said.

    Is that price RISE?

    The average income of a GP is around $200,000 and I don’t criticise anyone for that type of income.

    Try TURNOVER … they have to pay for wages of staff, rent, cleaning, insurance …

    (I did some work for the Divisions of General Practice a decade ago (among other things editing their policies and writing procedures.)

    I was also asked to video a couple of conferences including dinner (to which I was invited) … the round table discussion was very interesting and mostly about the difficulty of rinning a surgery and actually making over $60,000 a year.

    So, maybe we need a link for that ToM?

    “”If anything is “free” (ie without a direct cost paid by the direct consumer) it will be overused.””

    And I dispute that assumption with regard to seeing a doctor … naïve in the extreme … for instance there is general consensus that most men avoid the doc like the plague itself …

    99% of people go to doctors because they have to not because they want to spend other people’s money …

    I sincerely hope you do not get injured (sharks are a high risk I’d say) or seriously ill … so that you can no longer earn an income …

    It is an arrogant and ignorant (in the true sense of the word) assumption …

  11. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2014 10:37 am

    At the hotel I stayed at last week, there was free basic wifi, or $14 a day for “premium”

    I have no idea what the advantages were for the premium version, so I used the free one as much as I wanted.

    If I had to pay (say) $2 every time I logged on, I might have used it a little less.
    —————–
    Try TURNOVER … they have to pay for wages of staff, rent, cleaning, insurance …

    On the other hand maybe you could try a little research, rather than always defaulting to your personal experience.

    Australian general practitioners earn good money, with the actual amount dependent upon the nature of the practice and the hours worked. In general practice there is also the opportunity to run your own medical practice if you choose. All this with flexible hours and the choice of practice style!
     The average annual income for a full-time Australian GP is up to $200,000 or more.
     GPs earn a higher average income than most non-medical professionals including lawyers, veterinarians, architects, engineers and accountants.
     Compared to family practitioners elsewhere in the world, Australian GPs are among the highest income earners, above countries like France, Germany and Canada.

    http://www.gpaustralia.org.au/content/what-can-you-earn

  12. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 11:12 am

    ToM, thanks for that … did you notice that was for a one man/woman band? No staff etc?

    ‘Cause that was the personal experience discussion a decade* ago I defaulted to above …(*realising that income would have risen)

    … income is based upon patient numbers per hour and patient payment per hour … (see the calculator) … no overheads for self employed GPs … or GPs paying part costs or renting within a Medical Centre …

    I can assure you my business net income was higher than the GPs gross income …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    MOVIE REVIEW ALERT …

    Off to see Exodus … with champagne lunch of course …

  13. December 10, 2014 11:24 am

  14. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2014 11:30 am

    …and you’ll notice TB that I consistently used the word ‘income”

    But if you think GPs are underpaid, perhaps show some rationale for this.

    Over time I think there needs to be a higher charge for medical services . Doctors aren’t simply public servants.

  15. Meta permalink
    December 10, 2014 11:39 am

    (Agreed. We need more entrepreneurs; and more private health insurer conglomerates entering into the public-private healthcare market, including the GP segment, to charge higher-but-lower-competitive fees for services performed by employee-doctors and employee-sub-doctors-stepping-up-to-do-the-work-doctors-are-overtrained-and-overpaid-to-do.)

  16. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 11:46 am

    Oops,I just realised that I replied to meta on the other ‘reality impaired’ thread when there is a new one going.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2014/12/07/reality-impaired-abbott-govt-in-new-poll-slump/#comment-87109

  17. December 10, 2014 11:50 am

    That’s GOLD Meta. 🙂

  18. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 11:56 am

    Unsustainable medicare?

    Why care when there’s an unsustainable environment for people to live in?

    Australia is the ‘worst industrial country in the world for climate change’, report finds:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/australia-is-the-worst-industrial-country-in-the-world-for-climate-change-report-finds-9911976.html

  19. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 12:02 pm

    … including the GP segment, to charge higher-but-lower-competitive fees for services performed by employee-doctors and employee-sub-doctors-stepping-up-to-do-the-work-doctors-are-overtrained-and-overpaid-to-do.)

    hehehe

    I foresee a new DIY medical diagnosis and treatment industry to come into the breech as people can’t afford to go to the Dr anymore. Think of the book sales on DIY surgery and useless homeopathics/swisse vitamins!

  20. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 12:03 pm

    “”Over time I think there needs to be a higher charge for medical services “”

    There are plenty of nations charging a co-payment. The Lefties just love whipping up hysteria.

    Why the fuss when there is already a co-payment on medicine anyways ?

    There are still a stack of exemptions.

  21. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2014 12:14 pm

     DIY medical diagnosis

    There was a study a few years ago, people keyed their symptoms into a program and another group went to a GP. The computer was far more reliable in diagnosis that the GP.

  22. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 12:15 pm

    I completely reject yet another attempt to destroy medicare.

    It is an unfair impost on people with chronic health problems who are in the workforce and don’t qualify for any concession cards. Why should they be paying much of their wage on drugs and health visits just because of their accident of birth? There are many items that are not on the PBS and they are expensive when Drs only prescribe for one month of meds at a time. Some people are on multiple meds.

    Good health is it’s own reward, why should others suffer more of a financial penalty because they were born with health problems that necessitate lifelong medical care?

    A good society would support those who are disadvantaged in such a way.

  23. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 12:26 pm

    PBS covered meds are still quite expensive when you don’t have any concession cards.

    It’s not unusual for those with chronic illnesses to be on around six or more meds daily. They will pay $36.90 per monthly script for each of those. If they are on a low wage, $220 per month really is life limiting and I can see where people can’t afford to fill scripts and go to their doctor when they should. This ensures more hospital admissions and more expense for the taxpayer as they end up in hospital really sick.

  24. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 12:32 pm

    …Financial discrepancies emerge in fundraising body linked to Tony Abbott
    The Warringah Club may have failed to declare gifts in kind in pre-election audit, finds Australian Electoral Commission…

    …“While unspecified clerical error was quoted as the reason for the discrepancies, the inability of the financial controller to account for the error, particularly as he is a practising accountant, raises concerns about the approach to compiling the return in meeting the requirements of the [Commonwealth Electoral Act].”…

  25. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 12:38 pm

    And what if there are multiple members of the one family that have ongoing health issues, requiring multiple monthly scripts and treatments etc?

    https://twitter.com/vanbadham/status/542483818628665346

  26. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 12:53 pm

  27. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:21 pm

    Price signal to discourage visits to GP = GOOD. Price signal to discourage carbon pollution = BAD

    You want to discourage people from seeing if the weightless gas they are experiencing is a problem, whereas you don’t want to discourage producers from creating a weightless gas we know is a problem.

    See, in bizarro world, it all makes perfect sense 😉

  28. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:23 pm

    Another part of the trick is that the government will now cut some rebates by much more. Standard so-called Level B consultations of up to 10 minutes currently attract a $37.05 rebate. Under the changes they will classified as Level A and attract $16.95 for the young and concession holders and $11.95 for everyone else.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/the-gp-copayment-trick-that-purports-to-save-35-billion-20141209-123i8z

    imo that is the dirtiest part of the trick, and will alone force many GP’s to abandon bulk billing immediately

    Job done for wreckers of a great system.

  29. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:24 pm

    hockey is too busy elsewhere to be concerned with such trivial matters as grubmint debt AO

    On Tuesday, before Justice Peter Jacobson entered the courtroom, Mr McClintock told Fairfax Media’s barrister, Sandy Dawson: “If the imputations are conveyed you are f—–.”

    Mr Dawson replied, “I assume you have given the treasurer the same advice with a ‘not’ in the first part of that sentence.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/joe-hockey-to-take-stand-in-defamation-case-against-fairfax-media-20141209-123dlm.html

  30. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:27 pm

    …See, in bizarro world, it all makes perfect sense..

    You just have to turn it upside down, inside out, stand on your head and then apply the oxymoron known as ‘conservative logic’ 🙂

  31. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:34 pm

    hahaha

    does that mean abbott will also sue for this?

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/dec/10/financial-discrepancies-emerge-in-fundraising-body-link-to-tony-abbott

    I bet he won’t sue re his daughter’s ‘merit based’ $60,000 scholarship!

  32. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:36 pm

    “”…See, in bizarro world, it all makes perfect sense..””

    It makes complete sense when a Price Signal is not necessary.

  33. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:40 pm

    Tony Abbott’s ‘reset’ can never work because he can’t ‘reset’ himself
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/10/tony-abbotts-reset-can-never-work-because-he-cant-reset-himself

    …But another problem with “resetting” is that the current crop of Liberal MPs – a much more right wing collective than even the Howard majorities were – can’t really comprehend the belief that their budget measures were unfair. Despite Abbott’s well-known Catholicism, he shares the secular-Calvinist presuppositions that animate his party, and provide the core belief of the English-speaking right: namely, that just as the rich deserve their wealth, so do the poor deserve their fate…

    Now abbott’s spruiking the taxpayer funded education brainwashing package for medicare. Worked for the terror legislaton didn’t it, the pantzwetters just caved to an onslaught of fear. What would the LIEberals do without fear and smear? It is their MO and in their DNA.

  34. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:42 pm

    It makes complete sense…

    I rest my case 🙂

  35. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:42 pm

    “”…..hockey is too busy elsewhere to be concerned with such trivial matters as grubmint debt AO””

    Yes your beloved Leftwing inner city hipster Fairfax is digging its grave as we speak.

    Bleeding subscribers/readers everywhere.

  36. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 1:46 pm

    It makes complete sense when a Price Signal is not necessary.

    Yet, in the case of a Carbon Price, it worked, it forced people away to something, or nothing

    Are you saying this is a good idea for peoples health?

  37. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 2:02 pm

    The Consumers Health Forum are on telly saying it’s still a co-payment by default.

    Bill Shorten “they’re all barnacles and no ship”

    Julie bishop doing her very best to lobby other nations just ahead of her Lima trip so they can prevent the barrier reef being on the endangered list.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/australia-to-contribute-200m-to-green-climate-fund/story-e6frg6xf-1227150858029

  38. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 2:03 pm

    “”Yet, in the case of a Carbon Price, it worked””

    Oh did it………………….I must have missed the bit about it achieving a reduction in average global temperatures as intended.

    Could you give us a Link………………………..you are always good for it……………………or so you keep saying.

    🙂

  39. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 2:05 pm

  40. December 10, 2014 2:06 pm

  41. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 2:09 pm

    .I must have missed the bit about it achieving a reduction in average global temperatures as intended.

    Perhaps you can link where the Carbon Price was supposed to lower temperatures to begin with.

  42. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 2:10 pm

    lol reb

    Shorten appears to be getting a lot of Zingers (or he’s getting credited for a lot 😉 )

  43. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 10, 2014 2:30 pm

    Well it looks like Labor supporters have no interest in running a surplus budget. Over in leftie laa laa land at AIMN they say we are sovereign in our own currency so the govt cannot go bust and deficit spending is not a problem. Perhaps we should go for a really big deficit and see what effect it has on the economy. Swans biggest deficit was $54B.

    Perhaps we should just let it rip and go for a $100B deficit and let the next generation worry about the effects of deficit spending.

  44. December 10, 2014 2:35 pm

    Tom of Melbourne “The average income of a GP is around $200,000” You forgot to mention the part where a GP is billing 45% of patients privately at $65 an hour.

  45. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2014 3:32 pm

    “leftie laa laa land at AIMN”

    This reference indicates that you’re unconcerned about your credibility Neil.

  46. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2014 3:38 pm

    Things in the budget that may have a social benefit also have a cost, such as “free” doctor visits.

    There needs to be a reasonable balance between the social benefit and the cost. It’s no use just saying “it’s only fair”

    There are plenty of socially progressive policies that are actually free, such as marriage equality. But health isn’t in that category.

  47. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 3:52 pm

    “”Over in leftie laa laa land at AIMN they say we are sovereign in our own currency so the govt cannot go bust and deficit spending is not a problem””

    OK……….let’s look at just how fucking ridiculous that theory of theirs is (besides the point you’d be hard pressed to find an economist that supports it)

    Lets take BHP as an example.

    Its worth is measured by how much and how many of its shares are on issue at any one time. It can issue more shares if it wishes. And lets say some fuckwit like Catching Up (who actually believes this shit) holds $1000 worth of shares.

    Lets say BHP decided to stop paying everyone it owes by currency and simply paid them with shares i.e. employees, suppliers, subcontractors, even dividends are replaced by issuing more shares. In this example these companies or individuals represent other trading nations .

    In the very short term (i.e. 1 week) probably not much would happen but as time goes by there are more and more and more shares on issue . Consequently the value of each share begins to fall over time meaning more shares need to be issued to cover new expenses. After a fairly short amount of time Citizen Catching Up holds shares no longer worth $1,000 but more like $500 and still falling.

    Eventually all those employees, suppliers, subcontractors are FED UP because BHP shares are rapidly becoming worthless.

    So they then refuse to supply goods or services any longer.

    I know its a simple analogy but I need to keep it simple for the Fuckwits that actually believe the “sovereign” theory.

  48. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 3:57 pm

    But health isn’t in that category.

    You don’t think that health is better being prevented than treated (as it were)?

    There needs to be a reasonable balance between the social benefit and the cost.

    And there appears to be such a balance.

    The unsustainability of government health expenditure in Australia is a myth that has been carefully nurtured to justify policies to transfer costs from government to the public.

    http://theconversation.com/australias-unsustainable-health-spending-is-a-myth-26393

  49. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2014 4:03 pm

    I think the entire health system is in need of overhaul . I appears to miss the point of its purpose, it is now loaded with bureaucracy and is focussed on self serving process rather than health.

    But if the starting point for some reform of the cost structure is a price, then I’m fine with a price

  50. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 4:05 pm

    I know its a simple analogy

    And a poor one.

    A countries budget is not akin to a companies, as it is not akin to a households. A countries economy is, essentially, infinite. That is to say, no matter what, it will endure. The quality of life may deteriorate to unconscionable levels, yet it will endure. The same cannot be said of a company budget. Once it is exhausted, it will cease to exist. Therein lies the problem with treating them the same.

    This is not to say that “sovereign in our own currency ” is a good model either (if that is what is being said, I don’t know, and, as we saw from the last thread, some people are prone to putting words into peoples mouths.) Countries still should strive (imo) to run as small a deficit as possible. But, on the other hand, look at the worlds strongest economy, and see just how far and for how long they have been in debt.

    Perhaps the secret of their strength lies in their fearlessness of debt?

  51. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 4:06 pm

    I think the entire health system is in need of overhaul

    I do too. We should start with removing subsidies for private health.

    Why should we subsidise competition for our own public health system, but we won’t subsidise skills in manufacturing?

  52. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 10, 2014 4:12 pm

    “but we won’t subsidise skills in manufacturing?”

    Gough Whitlam abolished the tariffs and most of our manufacturing left under Hawke/keating and Rudd/gillard.

    Our local car manufacturing reached a low of 10% under Rudd/Gillard.

  53. December 10, 2014 4:22 pm

    ”””””””””””””The average income of a GP is around $200,000 and I don’t criticise anyone for that type of income.””#guffaw

    #only moaning about those earning less than half of that, huh

  54. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 4:24 pm

    “” That is to say, no matter what, it will endure. The quality of life may deteriorate to unconscionable levels””

    That’s the whole point Stooooooopid !

    I should have made it simpler for you FMD

  55. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2014 4:26 pm

    Yeah, extend waiting lists even further.

    In public hospitals I’d prefer to get rid of-
    * Director of Nutritional Services and all their sidekicks and return to Catering Supervisor
    * Executive General Manager Human Resources (and their Employee Relations, Organisational Development Managers etc) and replace them with a Personnel Officer
    * General Manager, Freedom of Information, and not replace them
    * Community Relations Executive and replace them with ‘the volunteers & fund raising committee’

    There is just so much bureaucracy, the system is internally focussed.

  56. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 4:37 pm

    “”Off to see Exodus … with champagne lunch of course …””

    That Robber Baron slogan sure sounds pretty empty……….

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/movie-pirates-funding-terrorists-20090627-d0gm.html

  57. December 10, 2014 4:38 pm

    ”””If anything is “free” (ie without a direct cost paid by the direct consumer) it will be overused.”””
    ”””So I’d prefer the price to be set at.. ..signal””’

    # More horse-shit from the krusty-burger junior manager handbook. There would be sweet fcuk-all people that fit in that teabag talk-point. People are `time-poor` and won`t be wasting their `free-time` going to the quacks unnecessarily just to `ensure` they get their `fair-share` of national health. lt is an imbeciles argument.

  58. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 4:51 pm

    …“While unspecified clerical error was quoted as the reason for the discrepancies, the inability of the financial controller to account for the error, particularly as he is a practising accountant,

    That just can’t be!!!! A CP! Inability! WFMD!

    Chortle! Chortle!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Gough Whitlam abolished the tariffs and most of our manufacturing left under Hawke/keating and Rudd/gillard.

    I’d check your history … look up the Button Plan to start with …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    There is just so much bureaucracy, the system is internally focussed.

    Re health: I agree that it is bureaucratically top heavy and needs “qualified managers” to run the bloody things properly (we should have a national health system all in sync!)

    But I must say that you do have trouble with titles and qualifications … and a tendency to slip back to the fifties … – and I don’t think you were even there! LOL!

  59. December 10, 2014 4:55 pm

    That’s all very well but what was the movie like…?

  60. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:03 pm

    “”Perhaps you can link where the Carbon Price was supposed to lower temperatures to begin with.””

    My pleasure…………………….

    Some bloke called Tim Flannery that’s who………..

    “If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow, the average temperature of the planet’s not going to drop for several hundred years, perhaps over 1000 years,”

    But he’s probably just a biased yobbo !

  61. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:15 pm

    Some bloke called Tim Flannery that’s who………..

    I’m sorry, but that quote doesn’t mention Carbon Price, ETS, or even Carbon Tax. It actually highlights how stupid a claim that would be, as it specifically says it will take hundreds of years to have temperatures actually reduce. So I’m interested in where you got that impression.

    I’ll be patient 😉

    All you need to do is provide a link (I’m happy with a quote, I’m a big boy, and can google for you), that says the carbon Price was introduced to lower temperatures.

    I’ll just keep reminding you every now and then is all

  62. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:19 pm

    That’s the whole point Stooooooopid !

    Actually, the point is, in your analogy, is that BHP will fail as a company.

    Countries do not fail in hte same way. As I said, look at the worlds most powerful economy (I think it still is, although China may have replaced it??)

    You can’t run a company like that. But obviously a country can be.

  63. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:26 pm

    “”Countries do not fail in hte same way.””

    Go tell the Greeks and the Argentines.

    You are absolutely shameless about monopolising the world’s supply of Bullshit

    And you are very irresponsible about the way you fling it in all directions 🙂

  64. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 5:32 pm

    “”I’m sorry, but that quote doesn’t mention Carbon Price, ETS, or even Carbon Tax. “”

    OK…………so what was the reason to introduce the Carbon Tax or Price.

    What did you mean by this………”” Yet, in the case of a Carbon Price, it worked””

    Was it perhaps to reduce emissions ?

    In which case let me introduce you again to your Chief Yobbo………..

    “If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow, the average temperature of the planet’s not going to drop for several hundred years, perhaps over 1000 years,”

    You really are a bore with the stupid games you play

  65. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 6:23 pm

    Was it perhaps to reduce emissions ?

    Bingo 🙂

    Now, if you can point me to where it says the Carbon Price would reduce temperatures, I’ll keep waiting.

    <i.the average temperature of the planet’s not going to drop

    really, that should provide you with a hint

    What did you mean by this………”” Yet, in the case of a Carbon Price, it worked””

    People reduced emissions, which was the aim of the Carbon Price.

    Go tell the Greeks and the Argentines.

    They still exist, a company would fold. Therein lies the difference

  66. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 6:36 pm

    “”They still exist””

    Not without outside help……………………..but you already know that.

  67. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 6:42 pm

    “”I’ll be patient””

    You have already clearly implied the linkage with your own stupid comments above.

    Keep back pedalling though…………..not that you need that much practice

    You just love these stupid games like the Greek and Argentine comment. You know full well they were/still are being bailed.

    Ya full of shit

  68. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 7:20 pm

    That’s all very well but what was the movie like…?

    Surprisingly well made!

    I do suggest that anyone who goes should read the book though … *

    And God was a bit unusual …

    How Sigourney Weaver was cast is beyond me … it was almost a cameo role and was going well … then she started speaking … why don’t people retire before they are over the hill?

    I confess to being brought up on the biblical epics and Exodus follows the same pattern …

    A couple of alternative approaches had us going “WTF?” or “mmmm” …

    Graphics were … as expected excellent … but I’m boring you …

    Me

    ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ 1/2

    The Minister

    ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ 1/2

    And could I just make mention that Margaret Pomeranz and David Stratton exited the studio for the last time last night … after 28 years on ABC/SBS … may they enjoy many years retirement – At The Movies …

    * sarc alert its a fkn long book!

  69. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 7:26 pm

    Not without outside help……………………..but you already know that.

    This might upset you even more, Willie, but Australia can’t survive without outside help … what a wonderful thing is global marketeering …

  70. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 7:27 pm

    December 10, 2014 7:20 pm

    That’s all very well but what was the movie like…?

    Exodus Gods and KIngs … is surprisingly well made!

  71. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 7:28 pm

    Aw FK!

    Exodus Gods and Kings

  72. December 10, 2014 7:35 pm

    You’re pissed eh…?

  73. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 8:09 pm

    You’re pissed eh…?

    I wish … no I don’t … haven’t had “too much” for almost two years … but the Alko Police are in the next room!

    The shite above is just another demonstration of my shit keyboard skills!

  74. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2014 8:15 pm

    “…Shouldn’t these plans/changes been out in the open pre-election?…”

    No surprises, no changes was the mantra if I recall.

  75. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 8:18 pm

    “…Shouldn’t these plans/changes been out in the open pre-election?…”

    Which ones KL … there’s so many of the friggin’ things … and they keep slithering …

  76. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 8:23 pm

    You know full well they were/still are being bailed.

    That is my point. A company will not be saved, a country will. They are different entities, and as such, operate under different rules.

    You have already clearly implied the linkage with your own stupid comments above.

    Oh, “linkage” now is it.

    The purpose of the Carbon Price was to reduce emissions. It has/had succeeded in that.

    The purpose of reducing emissions is to slow the warming of the planet, over a long period of time.

    Your statement about measuring the Carbon Prices success by seeing ” a reduction in average global temperatures as intended.” is therefore false on a number of fronts, but the main one is that the aim of the Carbon Price was to reduce emissions.

    Reducing emissions, through numerous means, and over a long period of time, was aimed at slowing the warming, as opposed to lowering temperatures, as temperatures will still rise for a long time, as your quote stated. But the Carbon Price, as a policy, was simply to reduce emissions.

    That it had done.

  77. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2014 8:24 pm

    He said the $7 GP co-payment was “very extensively talked about in the lead-up to the budget” and “certainly wasn’t ruled out before the election”.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-08/tony-abbott-defends-governments-performance-in-wake-of-sa-poll/5950938

    The Walking Dead … ?

    And I thought Howard was bad … and Rudd and Gillard and Rudd … The Abbott is toxic, rotten, fermenting in his own lying bile …

    … just trying to attract, sb …

  78. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2014 8:29 pm

    He said the $7 GP co-payment was “very extensively talked about in the lead-up to the budget” and “certainly wasn’t ruled out before the election”.

    Truly, really truly???

    Labor’s candidate Terri Butler warned Dr Glasson had also supported introducing a GP co-payment.

    But Mr Abbott dismissed the claims as nothing more than a scare campaign.

    “Nothing is being considered, nothing has been proposed, nothing is planned,” he told reporters in Brisbane on Saturday.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/pm-dismisses-medicare-scare-at-griffith-campaign-launch/story-e6frg6n6-1226815649923

    What a dick ROFL

  79. December 10, 2014 9:10 pm
  80. December 10, 2014 9:16 pm

  81. December 10, 2014 9:24 pm

    Guess the petition didn’t work…. oh the irony

  82. December 10, 2014 9:32 pm

    Hmm really? The hypocrisy is monumentally gargantuan and without peer…
    Team Australia has just the gold medal tally in the fucktard Olympics..

  83. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 9:50 pm

    “That is my point. A company will not be saved, a country will. They are different entities, and as such, operate under different rules.”

    Ever heard of an Administrator you idiot

  84. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 9:52 pm

    “The purpose of reducing emissions is to slow the warming of the planet, over a long period of time.”

    According to Flannery it will reduce

  85. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 9:55 pm

    “If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow, the average temperature of the planet’s not going to drop for several hundred years, perhaps over 1000 years,”

    So how do you drop an average

    You need to drop the temperature you idiot

  86. December 10, 2014 10:02 pm

    An amazing, funny, confident, empathetic and self-deprecating performance.

    I can think of someone who could learn a lesson or two about leadership from this;

    Nah, first he needs to learn about society, humanity, ethics, morals, responsibility, fairness, communication, politics and governing.

  87. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 10:17 pm

    And by the way where did I say BHP would go broke anyway

    Verballing yet again moron ?

    Keep back pedalling

  88. December 10, 2014 10:33 pm
  89. Walrus permalink
    December 10, 2014 11:03 pm

    “Keep back pedalling”

    Perhaps BHP saw the error of its ways before it went broke

  90. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 8:02 am

    Ever heard of an Administrator you idiot

    And what most often happens after that, pray tell?

    According to Flannery it will reduce

    Not for several hundred years. And you asked if it had started yet ROFL

    I’m patient. All you need to do is show where the legislation for the Carbon Price was designed to lower temperatures. Because, I can show you numerous ones that state the aim of the Carbon Price was to reduce Emissions. What happens after that, well, that is up to the environment and worldwide action. The Price was simply a mechanism to deliver lower emissions. It did, through a price signal.

    And you want this same thing for Health 😯

    You need to drop the temperature you idiot

    Note very closely the “several hundred years” bit. And you want to see it right now, even though your own quote explicitly says otherwise ROFL

    And by the way where did I say BHP would go broke anyway

    You didn’t, and I don’t recall saying you did. But, what I was saying, using your “analogy”, if BHP was Greece, it would be broke by now. The Administrators would have already been through, and the entire company would have been closed down by now.

    But, ignoring Greece etal (who you brought in), what about Ireland, who had a “lion” economy (or described similar), or America, who have run deficits for decades? How would they survive as a company?

    I would have thought that a heavily subsidised, glorified public servant would have considered these other scenarios 😉

    And, still waiting on your link or quote that declares the aim of the Carbon Price was to see lower temperatures NOW()!

    I’m patient 🙂

  91. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 8:12 am

    The true aim of the medicare changes is being seen plainly now

    Many medical practices will shift from bulk-billing to charging patients the full cost of their visit in advance in response to the Abbott Government’s proposed GP co-payment, doctors have predicted.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/copayment-will-hit-bulk-billing-ama-predicts-20141210-124e1n.html

    Turning our doctors into tax collectors

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smh-letters/turning-our-doctors-into-tax-collectors-20141210-1242w0.html

    Personally (and in disagreement with the first article) I believe the below is still the biggest hit on GP’s, and will serve to have far more of them abandon bulk billing altogether

    The vast bulk of consultations are level B, up to 20 minutes. Under the rules announced yesterday there is a new minimum length for level B consultations of 10 minutes, shorter consultations will now be considered level As.

    This change will dramatically reduce the rebate for those shorter consultations, from A$37.05 to A$11.95 for concession card holders and A$16.95 for general patients. Again it is highly likely that GPs will pass on A$20+ gap to patients. The A$5 co-payment has quickly morphed into a A$25 one.

    https://theconversation.com/gp-co-payment-2-0-a-triple-whammy-for-patients-35334

    It really looks though like this “new improved” hit to our health system will be even more unpopular than the original. Expect new levels of unpopularity is my guess

  92. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 8:48 am

    “”I’m patient “”

    Where is the Link about accountants being specifically subsidised ?

    And don’t link back to that stupid column of yours where no example is actually provided.

    I want my money !

    By the way youre the one that said the Carbon Tax was successful in reducing energy consumption therefore emissions which Flannery said it was going to reduce temperatures.

    I’ve provided his quote.

    Now where do I collect my subsidy ?

    I can hear a megaphone from just over the horizon. I think I know what the person is shouting.

    I shall immediately call the village down the road and tell them I’ve found the idiot they are looking for.

  93. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 8:53 am

    “”You didn’t, and I don’t recall saying you did.”” – TomR

    Your memory is shot or your just a liar………………take ya pick

    “A company will not be saved, “” – TomR

    Anyway I’m not going to play your stupid Carbon Tax versus Carbon Price like games.

    I suppose next you’ll be telling us Thommo successfully settled with Fairfax in his favour. Another lie of yours.

  94. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 9:09 am

    Where is the Link about accountants being specifically subsidised ?

    What, in addition to the one I already put up? You want MORE ROFL

    Too much aint enough I guess 😉

    Example

    On 14 July, Louise visited a registered tax agent to prepare and lodge her previous year’s tax return. The tax agent lodged the return in September and charged Louise $220, which she paid immediately. Louise can claim a deduction for the tax agent’s fee on her next tax return.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Income-and-deductions/Deductions-you-can-claim/Other-deductions/Cost-of-managing-tax-affairs/

    I’ve provided his quote.

    But his quote doesn’t say that the aim of the Carbon Price was to reduce emissions, his quote said “If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow” etc

    The Carbon Price never claimed it would cut all the worlds emissions. Perhaps you can link to that one too?

    The Carbon Price was meant to reduce emissions. That was it’s aim, that was it’s outcome.

    Everything is pure juvenile bickering, or complete ignorance of reality

    Hard to tell with you which is witch 😉

  95. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 9:16 am

    And to think that this pathetic argument over what the Carbon Pricing was supposed to do stems from the fact that the price signal it sent succeeded in modifying peoples behaviour and reduced emissions.

    And some numbnuts think that this is what should be applied to health. Prevent people from going to the Dr. How in Dogs name can/should that be an outcome of any rational policy is beyond me.

    Prevention is by far the best medicine. Yet we now have an argument telling us not to go and get those spots checked out, or that cough looked at?

    WTF!!

  96. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 10:07 am

    “”The tax agent lodged the return in September and charged Louise $220, which she paid immediately. Louise can claim a deduction for the tax agent’s fee on her next tax return.”

    Nope…………not good enough you knucklehead. That’s a fee for service not a subsidy.

    You might as well say the mechanic who fixed a radiator leak in a taxiis is subsidised as well since that’s a tax deduction as well to the taxi owner.

    So in fact you don’t actually have a Link do you ?

    You just keep throwing up stupidity

  97. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 10:16 am

    That’s a fee for service not a subsidy.

    Semantics really, isn’t it.

    If I go to an accountant, I get to claim that back. The grubmint gives me taxpayer dollars for using an accountant.

    Nice work if you can get it.

    Call it a subsidy, a legitimate claim, a tax offset or whatever, it all amounts to the same thing, preferential treatment from the grubmint involving tax dollars.

    So why are you entitled to it, and a car maker isn’t?

  98. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 10:26 am

    Car makers are also entitled to deductions for the cost of managing their tax affairs. It is just another business expense.

    Of course, to some at least, any tax system that fails to take all cash and assets from taxpayers is subsidising them.

  99. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 10:37 am

    “”The grubmint gives me taxpayer dollars for using an accountant.””

    The grubmint gives me taxpayer dollars for using a mechanic to fix my taxi.

    The grubmint gives me taxpayer dollars for using a lawyer to defend my business against a whole host of situations.

    The grubmint gives me taxpayer dollars for using Veolia to empty my business garbage bins.

    So no its not semantics at all.

    Its just your stupidity that you’d prefer to now be wrapped up in a word “semantics””.’

    Rather than for you to be shown up to be an idiot

  100. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 10:53 am

    If I go to an accountant, I get to claim that back. The grubmint gives me taxpayer dollars for using an accountant.
    Nice work if you can get it.

    yeah, why can’t i claim back for using a plumber, electrician, gardener or even a dentist, aren’t they all fee for service? 😉

  101. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 10:59 am

    Sounds like there’s way too much private business getting kickbacks from the grubmint just for running their own business.

    Now, that’s nice work, no wonder every man and his dog in this country wants to be a small business owner, guess who the mugs are that pay for all of those subsidies?

  102. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:02 am

    Fee for srvice has nothing to do with it. You can’t get a deduction for expenses of a private or domestic nature. If you use the plumber, electrician, gardener on your rental property you get a deduction because they are an expense of you getting the rent.

    On the other hand if you get a doos drilling from the dentist, that is purely a personal pleasure. 🙂

  103. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:22 am

    On the other hand if you get a doos drilling from the dentist, that is purely a personal pleasure. 🙂

    hehe, nothing pleasurable about any of it, ersonally or financially [the dentist racket needs to be fixed]

    A Wounded Government Doubles Down On Its War With Doctors:
    https://newmatilda.com/2014/12/10/wounded-government-doubles-down-its-war-doctors

    …The government’s repeated use of the phrase “price signals” is a case in point. For doctrinaire neoliberals, the idea of price signals makes perfect sense: raise the price, and fewer people will go to the doctor. But for ordinary citizens, the phrase “price signals”, if it means anything at all, is a red flag that means “prices going up.”

    Coalition backbenchers may have some questions of their own. Why on earth would a wounded government wish to double down on its war with doctors? And if the government is “resetting”, why not retreat on the co-payment altogether?

    GPs are one of the most trusted groups in the entire community – a group of professionals who interact with millions of ordinary Australians on a daily basis. A marginal seat campaign led by suburban doctors is pretty much every Liberal MP’s worst nightmare.

    And yet yesterday the Prime Minister was attacking their professional conduct with backhanders about “six minute medicine” – as though a pay cut to doctors will somehow drive better primary care. At a stroke, the Abbott government has created a powerful enemy, but is no closer to achieving its policy goal…

  104. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:29 am

    “the dentist racket needs to be fixed”

    It is a disgrace!

    Instead of having Australians flying OS the government should give mass visas to foreign dentists to set up shop here.

  105. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:33 am

    “”For doctrinaire neoliberals, the idea of price signals makes perfect sense””

    What bullshit……………..it has nothing to do with “neoliberals””.

    Economists just call it Price Elasticity of Demand

  106. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:35 am

    If you use the plumber, electrician, gardener on your rental property you get a deduction because they are an expense of you getting the rent.

    Yea, let’s not get into how much the grubmint subsidises housing

    The grubmint gives me taxpayer dollars for using a mechanic to fix my taxi.

    Then why not subsidies the building of that taxi by Australian workers?

    Why can’t I claim my mechanic for my car? Or my travel expenses to work in my car?

    So many things subsidised, so many people now think it’s their right to get it.

    Perhaps we should move everything to a simple subsidy system, so we can see the real level of grubmint funding for occupations that otherwise wouldn’t be worth it?

  107. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:36 am

    “”And yet yesterday the Prime Minister was attacking their professional conduct with backhanders about “six minute medicine”….””

    The Mad Left defending Doctors. I never thought I’d see the day.

    But if it fits the Leftist agenda then cue outpouring of sympathy for the medical profession.

    Boo……………..Hoo !

  108. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:37 am

    “Economists just call it Price Elasticity of Demand”

    You are wasting your breath. In the parallel universe of lefty la-la land, money grows on printing presses.

  109. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:37 am

    So will my kids have to pay a co-payment each time their kids go to school next year?

    (Catholic schools would be exempt of course)

  110. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:41 am

    The Mad Left defending Doctors

    Perhaps the point is, Drs take the Hippocratic Oath, whereas the libs take the Hypocritic Oath.

  111. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:44 am

    So will my kids have to pay a co-payment each time their kids go to school next year?

    We already do TB. The “Free” in Free Education is as accurate as the “Free” is in Free Trade.

    There is a “legally recoverable fee ” (in SA at least) for public schools

  112. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:48 am

    The Mad Left defending Doctors. I never thought I’d see the day.

    What a fkn stupid sentence … just what does that mean? (Apart from the fact you obviously don’t talk to many doctors)

    Yer ranting now, Willie and you will need a doctor soon …

    But if it fits the Leftist agenda then cue outpouring of sympathy for the medical profession.

    The only reason this thread exists is because of tory idealism … the concept of a co-payment to see a doctor … any monies collected don’t go to support the medicare system it goes to medical research in “a couple of years” …

    The issue is that all the ducking and weaving and ranting about the Mad Left is irrelevant … there are people on the Mad Right who disagree with the concept …

    Economists just call it Price Elasticity of Demand

    So now a sick person is a commodity? Or is it the doctor who is the commodity and the patient is just raw material? Or is the doctor the manufacturer who takes raw material and develops its wellness …

    Health is not a commodity to be bartered for …

  113. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:58 am

    More sexism or legitimate grievance?

  114. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 11:59 am

    The only reason this thread exists is because of tory idealism

    🍸

    So now a sick person is a commodity? Or is it the doctor who is the commodity and the patient is just raw material? Or is the doctor the manufacturer who takes raw material and develops its wellness …

    Health is not a commodity to be bartered for …

    😡

    Exactly. Yet they want to argue that Health should be sent a price signal similar to the successful signal sent by the Carbon Price.

    They are actually arguing that we should see the Dr less 😯

    Health is not a commodity to be bartered for …

  115. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:01 pm

    “The only reason this thread exists is because of tory idealism … the concept of a co-payment to see a doctor …

    I believe the concept was first thought up by the Hawke Labor govt.

    The concept is being revisited because you voted for Rudd in 2007.

    We had no problems until Rudd/Gillard were elected by you TB.

    We are about to hit an iceberg and as usual you only care about yourself and your stomach.

  116. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:03 pm

    What is this iceberg we are about to hit?

    Does it have any resemblance perchance to the biggest global depression since the Great Depression (that appears to have been successfully wiped from some peoples actual memories)

  117. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:05 pm

    GPs are one of the most trusted groups in the entire community</i.

    No wonder the libs want a war with them.

  118. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:08 pm

    “Health is not a commodity to be bartered for …”

    Of course not. Just let the ‘death panels’ sort it out.

    Otherwise just print some money and build a Mayo Clinic in every town and suburb.

  119. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:11 pm

    abbott’s been making an idiot of himself on ABC24. Trying for statesman in hosting poroshenko but acting all blokey boys club with self glorifying and adulating humour. Very cringeworthy

  120. December 11, 2014 12:16 pm

    Oh the unbridled hypocritical Irony, my outrage bucket has been diluted by the putrid sewerage of fiberal fucktardery… The system needs an enema the fiberal front bench are about to blow the place up .
    POT KETTLE BLACK

  121. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:16 pm

  122. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:20 pm

    “”Perhaps we should move everything to a simple subsidy system””

    No………………Perhaps you should stop making stupid statements………………….it’s simpler

  123. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:21 pm

    It was quite instructive to get a glimpse of the conniving politicking of the “Always Independent” Fairfax editors. The poor little diddums were upset they had to apologise for lying so they thought they would double down. Instead they have pissed more Fairfax money into Sloppy Joe’s wallet.

  124. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:23 pm

    No………………

    Because then everyone would see how much my existence is “subsidised” 🙂

  125. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:32 pm

    But they screamed and screeched hysterically when the murdoch media was under the regulatory spotlight. No regulation allowed freeeedommmm

  126. December 11, 2014 12:34 pm

    I see a lot of imbecilic posts in here from people with no fucking idea…
    My doctors bills with medication is around $2k a month…
    My doctors bulk bill me. My specialist is $200 a visit… he takes a hit
    My Gp ..now takes a bigger hit
    My minimum visit is 20 min to 1/2 hour…

    Ideology Verses good economics. I choose to work and pay tax. All my medial is subsadised by the PBS…

    I could just go on a DSP and not work, I have that option, but I choose to work for myself..
    Why should my doctor take a hit because this fucking government has decided to
    Drop co payment and reintroduce it subsidised by medical practitioners?

    I tell you why.. because they are vindictively dishonest…

    More undisclosed radical neocon ideology agenda dishonestly wrapped as prudent fiscal management. These lies are wearing thin

    Another Captains call in the gold medal fucktardery of Team Australia… the children overboard in grown up bodies.

  127. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:41 pm

    GP co-payment 2.0: a triple whammy for patients:
    http://theconversation.com/gp-co-payment-2-0-a-triple-whammy-for-patients-35334

    …The changes announced yesterday are much more complex than the simple $5 headline number. They save the Commonwealth government roughly the same amount as the budget proposals. This means that collectively, consumers, GPs, or both, will be out of pocket to the same extent as was proposed in the budget.

    The distribution, though, will be different. Assuming GPs pass on the cuts, the big losers will be ordinary patients. Pensioners and concession card holders are protected from only one of the three changes, so they may face increased costs because of the indexation pause and the level B definition changes.

    The rebate reductions are due to come into effect on July 1, 2015. But the level B definition changes are to be snuck in by regulation to apply from January 1, 2015. Because the Senate can disallow regulations, the government delayed the changes until a few days after the Senate rose for its Christmas break.

    The big question is whether these changes will survive the Senate when it resumes on February 9. It will be an interesting summer…

  128. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:51 pm

    so they may face increased costs because of the indexation pause and the level B definition changes.

    “may” 😯

  129. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:52 pm

    Otherwise just print some money and build a Mayo Clinic in every town and suburb.

    Here’s a thought …

    Get rid of Negative Gearing

    Get rid of Family Trusts

    Get rid of Post Political Poillie Perqs

    Get all religious groups to pay tax

    Make sure that business actually pays tax and at 28.5%

    If we had adults running the country they might just stop the leaks from rich folks with shiny arsed silver spoons up their arses …

  130. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 12:54 pm

  131. Meta permalink
    December 11, 2014 1:20 pm

    (I’m still not sure we’re meant to be scrutinising the policy formation process and its products precise details without benefit of a great big new taxpayer-funded ad campaign to dispel those very misinformations.

    ————-

    And, if we’re substituting conventional medicine with homeopathic, AO, I doubt there’s better than Bach flower remedies; but we’d need to get all interested parties on board for the public information campaign.)

  132. December 11, 2014 1:29 pm

    Abbott is not keen on consensus and fair…

    Expect lots more captain calls as this crash test dummy keeps shooting himself in the head whilst repetitively driving the bus on an involuntary collision course to dishonesty resentment via the unforgiving stone wall of discontent impervious to spin and BULLSHIT….

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/books/les-murray-claims-abbott-swifty-on-richard-flanagan-book/story-e6frg8nf-1227151785011

    #onetermtory #onetermtony #onetermphoney

  133. December 11, 2014 1:32 pm

    And, if we’re substituting conventional medicine with homeopathic, AO, I doubt there’s better than Bach flower remedies; but we’d need to get all interested parties on board for the public information campaign.)

    Well one part per million of truth on every fiberal policy seems about right to me….

  134. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 1:36 pm

    “”Get rid of Negative Gearing””

    It can only be phased out over a lengthy time span.

    To do otherwise would/could smash property prices resulting in possibe Banking losses of such enormity every cash balance you had with a bank i.e. savings deposit could be at risk.

    Not to mention the partial annihilation of any Super people might have which would always have a certain amount tied up in bank shares.

  135. December 11, 2014 1:42 pm

    Sometimes Walrus occasionally makes sense.

    Why are people so uptight about NG anyway?

    It’s the last bastion of taxpayer funded rorts that enables ordinary Australians to become WCPs at the expense of other ordinary Australians.

  136. December 11, 2014 1:43 pm

    I forgot to add….

    Negative Gearing enjoys my complete and utter support.

  137. December 11, 2014 1:43 pm

    God bless you.

  138. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 1:47 pm

    Well one part per million of truth on every fiberal policy seems about right to me….

    😆

    you never listen to what comes out of their mouths, it’s what doesn’t come out that bites!

  139. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 1:48 pm

    It can only be phased out over a lengthy time span.

    But we guarantee the banks can’t fail … remember?

    Supposing you’re right (which very much doubt) Then perhaps we phase out negative gearing and phase in a co-payment? Over a lengthy time span …

    As if … any other changes are grandfathered … they just made immediate changes to super payments …

    We all know why you want a “lengthy time span” …

    The taxes from property owners should be going to first home buyers … its negative gearing that is destroying the real estate industry … especially NG on second hand homes …

  140. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 1:56 pm

    God bless you.

    and you

  141. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 1:57 pm

    If only we had a homeopathic government meta 🙂

  142. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 2:02 pm

    I think you mean

    It’s the last bastion of taxpayer funded rorts that enables ordinary motivated, driven, hardworking, lifter Australians to become WCPs at the expense of other ordinary lazy, whinging whining, leaner, no hoper Australians.

  143. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2014 2:03 pm

    oops

    do you get what I mean?

    Only meant to strike out two words ‘ordinary’

  144. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 2:09 pm

    “”But we guarantee the banks can’t fail … remember?””

    Oh OK so you are quite happy to bail them out once they go into default because property prices have fallen and triggered their own covenants from their own generally overseas lenders who suddenly call in their loans.

    I presume you are also happy about losing lets say 20c in the dollar from your own personal bank deposits.

    How altruistic of you for a change.

  145. December 11, 2014 2:19 pm

    This must happen to Walrus all the time…

  146. December 11, 2014 2:20 pm

    “”If only we had a homeopathic government””

    I’d settle for pasteurised…

  147. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 11, 2014 2:26 pm

    I’m sure Walrus can afford to get his mobile phone screen replaced from time to time. He probably has a stock of spare phones for meltdown moments, tax-deductible of course.

  148. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 2:35 pm

    tax-deductible of course.

    ROFL

  149. December 11, 2014 2:39 pm

    Guffaw.

  150. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 3:06 pm

    “”But we guarantee the banks can’t fail … remember?””

    I forgot … you still need the training wheels of a sarc alert … must be hard in a black and white world …

  151. December 11, 2014 3:13 pm

    It can only be phased out over a lengthy time span.
    To do otherwise would/could smash property prices resulting in possibe Banking losses of such enormity every cash balance you had with a bank i.e. savings deposit could be at risk.
    Not to mention the partial annihilation of any Super people might have which would always have a certain amount tied up in bank shares.

    Spoken like a true tax avoiding wall street republican north shore liberal..

    Whats the difference between between Social and corporate welfare…?
    One is an appointment with centrelink
    One is an anointment with grange to drink.. 🙂

  152. Walrus permalink
    December 11, 2014 3:50 pm

    “”Spoken like a true tax avoiding ………..””

    Well Ricky give us your fearless prediction of what might happen if all of a sudden investors were no longer able to recoup their tax losses from taxable income and found themselves with property loans they could no longer service ?

  153. December 11, 2014 4:02 pm

    “”what might happen if all of a sudden investors were no longer able to recoup their tax losses from taxable income and found themselves with property loans they could no longer service ?””

    Um, accountants would go out of business?

  154. December 11, 2014 4:07 pm

    Real estate Agents and developers (one step up the ladder from child molesters and grave robbers) may return the real estate market back to sanity where people are not enslaved to exorbitant mortgages that they will never pay off.

    or I know…

    Maybe baby boomers would stop buying up first home purchase properties so young couples may have a chance to actually own a property, which now is a dream…in a galaxy far far away

    or I dont know

    Are you saying that Negative gearing is underpinning the housing market? because I am pretty sure it is just an investment lurk that turned a bunch of people into slum lords at the expense of young home owners…

  155. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 4:10 pm

    … no longer able to recoup their tax losses?

    Losses? They’re EXPENSES for maintenance, repairs, improvements for being a property owner … expenses that the rest of us pay on our homes without tax WELFARE …

    … found themselves with property loans they could no longer service ?

    The banks would foreclose?

    What should happen is that the existing loans be eligible for reducing levels of assistance and means tested like any other WELFARE … and the RORT stopped immediately for any future loans …

    … in fact the price of housing would drop over-night and become more affordable for first home buyers (who now seem to think its something to do with Baby Boomers) …

    … more homes would be constructed and the housing industry would need more apprentices and tradespeople … hardware sales would pick up … tools … vehicles … fuel … food … even tax would have to be paid …

    Just pretencing’

  156. December 11, 2014 4:32 pm

    Losses? They’re EXPENSES for maintenance, repairs, improvements for being a property owner … expenses that the rest of us pay on our homes without tax WELFARE …

    Surely you mean don’t the highly corrupt “maintenance” industry run by property management companies attached to the real estate agencies?

    The real estate institute is a pillar of virtue.. after all they do a 12 week course and with that type of extensive…expert training they must be highly ethical and professional… above corruption. 🙄
    cough cough splutter splutter…

  157. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 4:54 pm

    BTW, RP … I wrote the learning and assessment material for the first two units of the National Training System’s Real Estate Sales Package … mid 90’s from memory … still in use I’m told …

    True … no pretencing at all … 🙂

  158. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2014 4:55 pm

    Surely you mean don’t the highly corrupt “maintenance” industry run by property management companies …

    Surely you know its the CFMEU BOO! that runs them? On Harley D’s!

    Now I’m pretencing … 😆

  159. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2014 6:31 pm

    Um, accountants would go out of business?

    business ❓ 😯

    ROFL

  160. December 11, 2014 8:31 pm

    (For Certain; Patient Voters will not like how the sausage is made, slided, diced, divided, or tastes. They also don`t enjoy being pushed toward Private Sausage Purchase mantra, when they can`t afford it.)

  161. December 11, 2014 8:43 pm

    ”””””””””’If I go to an accountant, I get to claim that back. The grubmint gives me taxpayer dollars for using an accountant.””#correct

    # The virtual welfare accountants receive from Govts keeping highly complex biz, trust, individual and `all-other` tax-laws cannot be discounted. The team-cheerer nailed you on that one blubbers. No other industry/job/worker has that level welfare AND covered by a stat-dec at the bottom placing `all-liability` back on the client as tax-returns do. Armchair raised plumbers/gasfitters and sparkies, licenced trades, but it is `they`, the tradies that sign the stat-dec on the bottom of `works-order/safety-cert` and cannot dodge liability for `their` works, if audited. Counters-of-beans are truly a protected species, and l bet they run all kinds of `interference` when/if Govts try to simplify or standardise the tax-system.

  162. December 11, 2014 9:22 pm

    Destructive welfare that disadvantages people and shackles them to rent..
    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/negative-gearing-gives-sydney-property-investors-unfair-advantage-20141208-122ez6.html

  163. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 12, 2014 10:28 am

    kevin andrews has just announced changes to the disabilty support service. I wonder how the freedom lovers feel about people having to be seen by a commonwealth Dr, they are not allowed to use their own private Dr anymore.

  164. TB Queensland permalink
    December 12, 2014 10:48 am

    …business…

    er, Robber Baronning?

    Chuckle 😉

    Just pretencin’ …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    … having to be seen by a commonwealth Dr, they are not allowed to use their own private Dr anymore.

    Squeeze too tight and eventually things go badly …

    I’d be making sure the government doctors didn’t have names like, Mengele

  165. Tom R permalink
    December 12, 2014 10:51 am

    AO, is that just for disability support recipients?

    Are they now being made second class citizens (more than they have been made I should add)?

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