Skip to content
Advertisements

Security Expert: Police Botched Sydney Siege

December 16, 2014

491554-2a3d3282-8483-11e4-917d-bf0f063a4996

Global security expert Joe Siracusa has accused AFP officers of mishandling the hostage crisis in Sydney overnight.

In an interview on ABC Breakfast News this morning, Prof Siracusa from RMIT criticised the AFP for not taking a “kill shot” earlier when it became known that the perpetrator was well known to police and had a history of violence and sexual assault.

Man Haron Monis, 50, is a self-styled ‘sheik’ with a long history of run-ins with law enforcement.

Monis, also known as Sheikh Haron and Mohammad Hassan Manteghi, was on bail on a charge of accessory to murder, relating to the death of his ex-wife, who was allegedly stabbed and set alight in a stairwell of her Sydney apartment complex last year.

In March this year he was charged with more than 50 sexual offences including the 2002 sexual assault of a young woman which was allegedly carried out under the guise of ‘spiritual healing’.

Monis arrived in Australia as a refugee from Iran in 1996 and first became known to the public when he was charged with sending offensive letters to the families of Australian soldiers who had died in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In the letters Monis called one Australian Digger ‘the son to a dirty pig, and to a dirty animal’, and urged the Diggers’ families to call on the government to pull troops out of Afghanistan.

In court Monis claimed he was a ‘peace activist’ and that his rights to free speech were being trampled.

It’s believed Monis lost a High Court appeal against his conviction just last Friday — an event which may have precipitated his decision to stage the Sydney siege.

Prof Siracusa has questioned why the controversial self-proclaimed “sheik” was allowed to walk free on bail given his extensive criminal history.

“The fact that this guy was on bail and known to police suggests there was a breakdown in communication” he said.

He criticised police for not taking a kill shot in the hostage situation despite multiple opportunities to do so.

“There’s no such thing as a lone wolf and it’s very likely this was a botched job.”

“You have to assume it’s botched from the very beginning” he said.

“Look when hostages die, it’s botched, okay. This is not a clean operation. This happens all the time when you go to rescue people. Sometimes you do it and sometimes you don’t.”

“I’m just wondering why they waited so long if they knew this was going to be lethal force.”

“You have file footage of him in his past life writing terrible letters to people. He is part of a conspiracy to kill his ex-wife. He was on sexual charges.”

“What is this guy doing out on bail… You know, it raises all these other questions.”

 

 

 

 

 

Advertisements
169 Comments leave one →
  1. December 16, 2014 9:41 am

  2. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 16, 2014 9:46 am

    World expert on Islam Julian Burnside has spoken. All hail his aroused engorged ego.

  3. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 10:07 am

    Gunman wanted to speak to Tony Abbott….

    Wow, he was crazed

  4. TB Queensland permalink
    December 16, 2014 10:29 am

    There are reports that a hostage lunged at Monis, that was a game changer …

    While I expressed similar thoughts as the Prof this morning … I wasn’t there. I don’t know if there was a “kill shot” earlier and recognise the psychology of waiting …

    I said to, The Minister, last night I expected the police to make a move around 4:00 am …

    I suspect only Toillette, around here, would understand why I said that …

    Monis’ background is disturbing tho’ …

  5. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 11:01 am

    Prof Siracusa sounds like a typical armchair expert with a prefect hindsight view.

    The police did well imo under an extremely difficult position. Is there a perfect course of action to take when a madman is involved. Of course, but we would never know it for certain unless we had unlimited goes at it running over the same point in time.

    This isn’t a science fiction movie. The police work in real time with unknown consequences from an unreliable individual.

    It is terrible that innocents died in this, but trying to blame the police is abhorrent in this instance imo. Blame the nutcase.

    Hindsight is the most gutless position to make these kinds of statements from.

  6. Meta permalink
    December 16, 2014 11:09 am

    (Me; I’d ultimately settle for Professional Standards and the Coroner to do their jobs; presumably that, if anything, is the foundation for ‘lessons (being) learned’; instead, in the interim, it’s either ill-evidenced blame or effusive praise being offered, from those with conflict(s) of interests or none.)

  7. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 11:17 am

    I’d ultimately settle for Professional Standards and the Coroner to do their jobs

    BOOOOORING!

    We need ratings, we need then NOW!

  8. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 11:22 am

  9. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 16, 2014 11:33 am

    Clearly Rupert is as guilty as if he had killed the hostages in cold blood. Yada yada yada.

  10. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 11:38 am

    So you don’t think that an argument could be made about heightening peoples anxieties and racial fears pushing those already close to the edge over said edge?

  11. Walrus permalink
    December 16, 2014 11:45 am

    “”Prof Siracusa sounds like a typical armchair expert with a prefect hindsight view.””

    Yep……he’s some piece of work.

    Those “Kill Shots” he blabbers about were shown on TV quite early on from memory when there was no direct contact with the cnut inside the Cafe and the cops didn’t know if he had other helpers with him.

    Early indications from 1 witness was that he saw 3 guys in long white gowns.

  12. Walrus permalink
    December 16, 2014 11:48 am

    “So you don’t think that an argument could be made about heightening peoples anxieties and racial fears pushing those already close to the edge over said edge?”

    Yep in that ISIL succeeded. Afterall the cnut in the Cafe wanted to borrow some of their “branding” i.e. flag

  13. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 12:03 pm

    Afterall the cnut in the Cafe wanted to borrow some of their “branding” i.e. flag

    And our media wanted us to believe that’s what he had.

    Like I said, murdor is the best propaganda agent daesh have.

  14. TB Queensland permalink
    December 16, 2014 12:06 pm

    Yep in that ISIL succeeded.

    With some really helpful media …

    Flags have been used as “branding” for centuries … ’tis not new, methinks …

    And before you go getting your knickers in a knot … I agree with you …

    Joseph M. Siracusa is Professor in Human Security and International Diplomacy and Discipline Head of Global Studies in the School of Global Studies, Social Science and Planning, at RMIT University, where he is a specialist in American politics and global security. A native of Chicago and long-time resident of Australia, he studied at the University of Denver and the University of Vienna and received his PhD from the University of Colorado (Boulder). He is internationally known for his writings on nuclear history, international diplomacy, and presidential politics. Professor Siracusa is also a frequent political affairs commentator in the Australian media, including ABC Radio. He has worked at Merrill Lynch, in Boston, the University of Queensland, and for three years served as senior visiting fellow in the Key Centre for Ethics, Law, Justice and Governance, Griffith University where he specialized in counter-terrorism. Among his numerous books are A History of United States Foreign Policy; Depression to Cold War: A History of America from Herbert Hoover to Ronald Reagan (with David G. Coleman); Presidential Profiles: The Kennedy Years, Real-World Nuclear Deterrence: The Making of International Strategy (with David G. Coleman); Nuclear Weapons; Reagan, Bush, Gorbachev: Revisiting the End of the Cold War (with Norman A. Graebner and Richard Dean Burns); and Globalization and Human Security (with Paul Battersby).

    Just another shiny arse …

  15. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 16, 2014 12:14 pm

    ““So you don’t think that an argument could be made about heightening peoples anxieties and racial fears pushing those already close to the edge over said edge?””

    I don’t know what this has got to do with racial fears. Islam isn’t a race.

    Islam as promulgated by most Islamists is a chauvinistic political ideology with a stated goal of subjecting the world to its precepts which various Islamist groups are now trying to implement through violence. And not just in the Middle East but also in Kenya, Nigeria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Thailand, The Philippines, Algeria, Mali, DRC, Chechnya, Tunsia, Bangladesh and other places.

    Both ends of the spectrum – those who believe that Islam is a religion of peace and those that believe that Islam is a religion of violence – are equally stupid. A better view is to distinguish the beliefs of the various types of Islam and to be aware that some of these pose a threat to our society.

  16. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 12:22 pm

    Islam isn’t a race.

    No, but I was talking bout our medias/grubmints scare, which doesn’t discern.

    Both ends of the spectrum – those who believe that Islam is a religion of peace and those that believe that Islam is a religion of violence – are equally stupid

    I AGREE!

  17. TB Queensland permalink
    December 16, 2014 1:01 pm

    Islam as promulgated by most Islamists is a chauvinistic political ideology with a stated goal of subjecting the world to its precepts

    Gee, that sounds familiar …

    Just sayin’ …

  18. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 1:04 pm

    Gee, that sounds familiar …

    I hope you’re not sayin’ they spelt “catlik” wrong?

  19. December 16, 2014 1:39 pm

  20. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 1:45 pm

    I wonder if they had the hostages fleeing from the Cafe in the sports section?

  21. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 1:46 pm

  22. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 16, 2014 2:08 pm

    I don’t follow twitter, but does Sir Tessa own the #illridewithyou campaign? Is he chairman of the management committee or something?

  23. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 16, 2014 2:16 pm

    Julian Burnside quote – @LdnFox Other crimes are not tagged by the religious/political views of the criminal. #sydneysiege was a criminal act it was not about Islam

    What a bulls**t artist he is.

    If a criminal christian said – “I’m killing in the name of Jesus”, it would probably be associated with some form of perverse christianity.

    There seems to be a fair bit of killing, enslavement and rape in the name of Islam at the moment, this obviously doesn’t reflect the views of the majority of Muslims, but it is ignorant to suggest that it has nothing to do with the religion.

  24. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 2:29 pm

    but does Sir Tessa own the #illridewithyou campaign?

    Funny you should put it that way 🙂

    This might help 😉

  25. December 16, 2014 2:40 pm

    “Both ends of the spectrum – those who believe that Islam is a religion of peace and those that believe that Islam is a religion of violence – are equally stupid. A better view is to distinguish the beliefs of the various types of Islam and to be aware that some of these pose a threat to our society.”

    Indeed.

    This type of event just gives ammunition to both polarities.

    And the quoted expert has a fair bit of nerve criticising the police response in what was clearly an extremely unpredictable & perilous situation.

  26. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 16, 2014 2:46 pm

    Turdside is just another piece of excrement bobbing around in the sewer of Green/Left politics. He is the very model of the modern intellectual – posturing and posing and spouting vacuous platitudes.

  27. December 16, 2014 3:05 pm

    “”He is the very model of the modern intellectual – posturing and posing and spouting vacuous platitudes.””

    In contrast to the modern conservatives, who spout hatred and division cloaked in some perverse form of patriotism or worse “for the benefit of your own good” as so accurately and eloquently encapsulated here by FDOM:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/dec/15/first-dog-joe-hockey-myefo?CMP=soc_567

  28. Meta permalink
    December 16, 2014 3:08 pm

    (And yet, Burnside’s technically correct; Themis doesn’t care what religion or political point of view someone, anyone espouses when they’re apparently/allegedly misusing a postal carriage service or depriving liberty or committing an aggravated assault at gunpoint; in some ways it’s an apposite example of crimes which escape/attract attention/designation in official/popular parlance as terroristic because they’re committed by the perceived/deemed right/wrong kinds of persons; perhaps also witness the difficulty with which even close observers/participants, say Police Commissioner Scipione, had in clearly describing their categorisations, responses, actions, and law-enlivening powers in the instant case.)

  29. December 16, 2014 3:18 pm

    I’m not really sure what Meta just said but I think I agree with it. 😯

  30. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 16, 2014 3:26 pm

    Turdside: “#sydneysiege was a criminal act it was not about Islam”

    How is this false dichotomy even “technically correct”? The two categories are not mutually exclusive. What is the point of trying to distance a religiously motivated crime from the religious motivation of the perp?

  31. Meta permalink
    December 16, 2014 3:33 pm

    (Beats me, SB; it’s your circular argument.)

  32. December 16, 2014 3:39 pm

    Was it really “religiously motivated” though….?

    It strikes me that “if” it was “religiously motivated” then it was in the style of the Westboro “church”…

    In other words – just a nutter using “religion”” as a “cloak” to add a degree of legitimacy to his particular convictions.

  33. December 16, 2014 3:40 pm

    I see no issue in acknowledging that his religion was a primary factor in his motivations. He also has a history of ‘activism’ & violence towards women (apparently)…any of those facets could be focussed upon by those with axes to grind.

    I do not believe that that, by extension, should smear the entire population (recognising it’s many sects & divergences) of that religion though.

    One side likes to point out his 14000FB-‘likes’ (hardly evidence that the 14000 would be similarly likely to kill people, I might add)…the other side can point out that the individual had been shunned by mainstream Australian muslim leaders for years.

  34. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 3:43 pm

    I’m not really sure what Meta just said but I think I agree with it.

    Oh my Dog, rebs Bill Shorten 😯

    Mind you

    I AGREE! 🙂

  35. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 16, 2014 3:45 pm

    …and while I think it is disingenuous to neglect the Islam factor, I don’t think it is reasonable to ignore the cultural problems.

    Indonesia and Malaysia are both Muslim countries and I’ve not experienced misgivings about safety. Parts of the middle east don’t feel as safe, there is a level of simmering resentment and just below the surface anger. That’s cultural not religious.

  36. December 16, 2014 3:48 pm

    Money shot? Hokey and conman said they were gonna balance the budget too…If he is such an expert why wasn’t he there…? wheel out a wombat.. the fucking hyperventilating of regurgitated speculation on this was fucking disgraceful to say the least..
    then we have the Illuminati of corporatocracies bragging…
    get me a bucket
    Australia is turning into a big blocked corporate toilet.. needs a flush

  37. December 16, 2014 3:48 pm

    I’m off to Malaysia next week. I’ll let you know if I get stoned.

  38. December 16, 2014 3:48 pm

    It’s difficult to deny that conservative religious beliefs played a part when he can be quoted historically…and seemed to go out of his way to explicitly link the event with his religion.

    Plenty hold similar beliefs and never hurt anyone, so clearly there is something inherently wrong with such a person in addition to any radical interpretations of his fable clubbery.

  39. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 3:50 pm

    there is a level of simmering resentment and just below the surface anger. That’s cultural not religious.

    Unless having the crap bombed out of them for a generation or so has upset their feelings?

    #justsayin’

  40. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 3:51 pm

    I’ll let you know if I get stoned.

    Shouldn’t we be able to tell by the “umms” and “aahhs” in your posts?

    man

  41. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 16, 2014 3:56 pm

    I think there are plenty of parts of the world that could claim similar grievances, most of Central and South America for example.

    But then they’re mainly catholics.

    The middle east is unusually angry

  42. December 16, 2014 4:01 pm

    I thing being stoned might attract the death penalty in those parts?! (yuk, yuk)

  43. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 16, 2014 4:03 pm

    Malaysia will be humid. People get short tempered in humidity.

    Be very careful of the non air conditioned bots

  44. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 16, 2014 4:07 pm

    It wasn’t my argument that Turdside was “technically correct”, Meta. If anything Turdside’s rant was an apposite example of poltical correctness trying to trump common sense.

    Turdside was incorrect when he said: “Other crimes are not tagged by the religious/political views of the criminal.” In fact crimes so motivated are often tagged as such – European anarchists, German neo-nazis, Greek Marxists and Obama’s good buddy Bill Ayers and his group have all had their crimes tagged with the underlying political motivation of the perps, precisely because it is relevant to an understanding of the crime.

    Turdside might have had a point if he had said “when the religious/political views of criminals do not motivate their crimes those crimes are not tagged by the religious/political views of the criminal.”

  45. Chris permalink
    December 16, 2014 4:28 pm

    Based on what we could see from TV footage, and reasonable assumptions using basic logic. It was painfully obvious from the very beginning, how utterly inept the police response was going to be.

    For example, take a look at the gear that the police were loaded out with…why were they all encumbered with so much gear??? It was one gunman, in the middle of the city, yet the police were decked-out like they were going to war – classic hallmarks of an amateur. And also, why was almost every cop in the country present? Talk about overkill.

    This was a straight forward siege (as can be) with one gunman – in a small corner cafe, with plenty of windows allowing a clear line of sight of the perpetrator. Plus, the police knew early on, who the scumbag was, and that he had nothing to lose. But they refused to take him out…why??

    Even if a sniper(s) couldn’t take a shot (unlikely), it was just one person in there – storm the guy, c’mon!

    They allowed this one person to lock-down virtually the entire city, and then by wasting time trying to negotiate with this lunatic, they essentially caused the situation to escalate. Especially so, as some hostages had already escaped – which clearly pissed-off the gunman, and thus made the situation ever more dire.

    Not to mention that there was obviously no consideration for the fact that night was coming, making the situation even more dangerous, and that as fatigue set in, the gunman would become ever more irrational. Basic stuff.

    The lesson here…if you’re ever in a similar situation, save yourself, just like most of the hostages were forced to do in this pathetic failure of a “rescue” operation. I mean, the authorities were talking about this siege potentially going on for days, what on earth were they thinking???

    Anyway, there’s plenty more reasons why this was a total failure, and I’m sure that thinking people will agree with me. I just feel terrible for the families, and I had to express my disgust with the amateurish execution of this operation.

  46. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 16, 2014 4:28 pm

    “Plenty hold similar beliefs and never hurt anyone, so clearly there is something inherently wrong with such a person in addition to any radical interpretations of his fable clubbery.”

    I suspect that only a minority of Muslims believe they are presently obliged to wage jihad in the path of Allah. But those who do are much more likely to act on those beliefs.

  47. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 16, 2014 4:36 pm

    C’mon, these men are causing grief every day of the week! murder suicides, drowning kids, physical verbal and sexual abuse, killing their wives and their family members, terrorising and torturing their loved ones.

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/12/16/sydney-gunman-a-criminal-not-a-terrorist/
    [sorry, lengthy cut & paste as it’s paywalled}

    …Man Haron Monis was a desperate, violent middle-aged man, not a jihadi.

    Expect the unexpected. The gunman in the Sydney siege did not fit the profile (either the media or the security services profile) of the “lone wolf” terrorist who increasingly dominates our nightmares and our mediascapes. He was not a second-generation alienated Muslim youth, “self-radicalised” from extremist websites. He had his own “extremist website”, of course, but it was hardly likely to become a nexus of anything beyond his own deluded and barely coherent ramblings. His website, like the crimes for which he had already been charged, bore the hallmarks of an unpleasant middle-aged man, not a troubled teenager.

    He was not, in other words, the kind of figure that anti-terrorism “experts” have subjected to so much recent analysis (and over-analysis), although he was already known to them, and to the media, and to the authorities.

    And of course he was known to Muslim communities as well, at least in the sense that we have been aware of his existence in the years since he was charged with sending offensive emails to the family members of Australian service personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Muslims have been urged to report on any radicalised and potentially dangerous figures in our midst — yet what could any of us have usefully told the police and security services about “Sheikh” Haron that they did not already know? The response from Muslims on social media to the release of the gunman’s identity mingled disbelief with “that figures”. Not “that figures” because he was a known henchman for Islamic State (the last anyone had heard, he was Shia, not Sunni), but “that figures” because he has been so viably dysfunctional and disturbing for so long. But if the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation and the cops couldn’t figure that, why should we have been able to work it out on their behalf?

    We ought not let Man Haron Monis’ self-declared title of sheikh and his “exotic” robes and turbans distract us from the fact that he fits a profile that has been familiar to the Australian court system since the still-unsolved attacks against the family court system during the 1980s. The information that is emerging about the background events to yesterday’s siege — an unpleasant divorce, a bitter custody dispute, domestic violence and alleged domestic homicide, the emergence of historic sexual abuse allegations  — fit the pattern not of the disenfranchised Muslim yoof but of the stock-standard post-divorce mid-life crisis Australian man who reacts violently (usually against family members and ex-partners but sometimes against the court system) to the loss of what he considers to be his entitlements.

    The tragic events of the past 24 hours raise questions about the government funding and media oxygen that has been devoted to counter-terrorism “expertise”. Criminologists are a more likely source of useful academic analysis, and the increased funding for ASIO could be more usefully deployed in combating family violence. And Helen Garner’s This House of Grief provides a more insightful reading of men like the Sydney gunman than does any of the media analysis I have read so far…

  48. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 16, 2014 4:43 pm

    , take a look at the gear that the police were loaded out with…why were they all encumbered with so much gear???

    Maybe they didn’t want to get shot.

  49. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 16, 2014 4:53 pm

    “(the last anyone had heard, he was Shia, not Sunni)”

    Dumb as dogshit is Crikey – even the Guardian is not so snidely stupid:

    Earlier this month, Monis had posted on his website that Shia muslims were rejectionists – a key message of extremist Sunnis in the Middle East.”

    Also see the UK Daily Mail:

    Monis is believed to have converted to Sunni Islam just last month when he posted a message on his now-suspended website rejecting Shiism and pledging allegiance to the Islamic State’s terrorist leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

  50. Chris permalink
    December 16, 2014 5:01 pm

    @ Tom of Melbourne

    I’m not talking about their body armour…I’m talking about their excessive loadout of equipment, extra rifle clips etc. It wasn’t commensurate to the situation at hand, and nor was it optimized.

  51. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 16, 2014 5:11 pm

  52. Meta permalink
    December 16, 2014 5:12 pm

    (C’mon, these men are causing grief every day of the week!

    Yes, I do tend to believe they are.)

  53. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 5:40 pm

    The middle east is unusually angry

    Actually, it’s quite quaint comparative to other regions.

    I first heard about this site after the outrage over the daesh beheadings. Apparently, what happens in Mexico makes that pale, and it has been going on for years. The blogger I heard this through (Dan Carlin) was a tad bemused why all of a sudden daesh beheadings are so bad, when nothing has been said about the Mexican situation. (yes, I know, it’s only happening to other Mexicans, although apparently numerous tourists have gone missing too) The videos uploaded apparently makes those daesh ones pale (I haven’t watched any, from either, my stomach isn’t that strong)

    http://www.borderlandbeat.com/

  54. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 16, 2014 5:44 pm

    “Actually, it’s quite quaint comparative to other regions.

    Which part of it have you observed? (first hand)

  55. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 16, 2014 6:17 pm

    Chris – ’m talking about their excessive loadout of equipment, extra rifle clips etc. It wasn’t commensurate to the situation at hand, and nor was it optimized.

    What do you think would have been optimal? I think one early eye witness said he saw 2 people accompanying the nutcase.

  56. Tom R permalink
    December 16, 2014 6:26 pm

    Which part of it have you observed? (first hand)

    None. I thnk the link I put up would serve. Since I’m not an expert on the underbelly of foreign nations like you so obviously are, I just went with what I could read.

    But, since you mention it, what are your “first hand” credentials for studying societal mannerisms, or could it possibly be that you’re perceptions of a culture might be swayed somewhat by the way that culture is presented to us in our Armchairs of Opinions (hat tip)?

  57. December 16, 2014 6:29 pm

    ””’last night I expected the police to make a move around””#wee-hours-am

    #fcuking tell me about it, sat up last night watching sweet fcuk-all, l was bustin for a piss, went to the dunny, got back to the telly and it was all over

    .

    ””Siracusa from RMIT criticised the AFP for””

    #another know-all fcuking yank who can fcuked, he wasn`t there (yeah-saw-him-abc24)

  58. December 16, 2014 6:36 pm

    ”’sorry, lengthy cut & paste as it’s”’#good-job

    # tewwawists stay `low-key` (try-to) not court teabag-media and supply`em with lots of pictures and data

  59. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 16, 2014 6:38 pm

    I was just passing on my personal experience from my travels. The ME has an angrier undercurrent that I haven’t experienced in some other parts of the world that could equally claim a violent history.

  60. December 16, 2014 6:57 pm

    The violence in Mexico is remarkably vicious & murderous. The reason it doesn’t get the same sort of traction, fearsquirtwise, is probably because it is localised, drug/money/power related & the cartels aren’t threatening those abroad with beheading for reasons of religion or ideology.

    IS & its fellow travellers have made a point of specifying intended targets & openly promoted their agenda.

    It’s important to remember, under the saturation of garment soiling from our media & leaders, that Australia isn’t Mexico, nor is it the Middle East (thank fuck for that, btw).

  61. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 16, 2014 8:43 pm

    Man Haron Monis’s poison letters split the High Court and laid bare a flaw in the system
    http://theconversation.com/man-haron-moniss-poison-letters-split-the-high-court-and-laid-bare-a-flaw-in-the-system-35557

    …A different part of Australia’s justice system provides a backdrop to Monis’s madness. A report in the Sydney Morning Herald claims “it has been Monis’s ongoing legal battle over his conviction for penning the poisonous letters to the families of dead Australian soldiers between 2007 and 2009 that has consumed him”.

    This may not be idle speculation. Just last Friday, Monis had been pursuing that legal battle in the High Court of Australia’s Sydney courtroom, 100 metres away from the Martin Place cafe…

    He has always maintained that the federal offence he was charged with and sentenced under – using a postal service to cause offence – was unconstitutional…

    …But here’s the thing that troubles me: despite several High Court hearings, and a full court judgment last year, the High Court has never resolved his claim. When it did issue its judgment on Monis’s arguments in February last year, an extremely rare thing happened.

    The Court split evenly…

  62. December 16, 2014 10:32 pm

    More to come, by the looks of that then.

  63. Tom R permalink
    December 17, 2014 7:54 am

    The reason it doesn’t get the same sort of traction, fearsquirtwise, is probably because it is localised, drug/money/power related & the cartels aren’t threatening those abroad with beheading for reasons of religion or ideology.

    No doubt. Except for, as I mentioned, the tourists who have been caught up in the violence.

    It is also bewildering to me considering it’s location right next to the USofA.

    More to come,

    One would hope so anyways.

  64. Meta permalink
    December 17, 2014 8:58 am

    (Speaking of even splits…

    …and the audacity of Pope.)

  65. Tom R permalink
    December 17, 2014 9:06 am

    audacity?

    or clarity?

  66. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 17, 2014 9:17 am

    ”Except for, as I mentioned, the tourists who have been caught up in the violence.”

    I think there is plenty of drug trade crime in Mexico (and to a degree, other parts of Central & South America) but there isn’t the same level of just below the surface simmering anger that is common in the Middle East. In my experience, anger appears to be a common and tolerated emotion and a reaction to transactions/negotiation and minor problems.

    The simmering anger is the emotion that is routinely experienced in several countries, the crime in Mexico isn’t directly experienced as commonly or in the same way.

    This tolerance of anger is cultural, it obviously isn’t related to religion.

  67. Tom R permalink
    December 17, 2014 9:25 am

    but there isn’t the same level

    shit, have you gone to the same uni as snacty and teabagz?

    yommsmates ™

  68. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 17, 2014 9:55 am

    I don’t think so, but the discussion will get pretty dull if all anyone here does is provide links to the experience, opinion or research of others.

  69. Tom R permalink
    December 17, 2014 10:06 am

    the experience, opinion or research of others.

    of course, we should ignore that, and rely on our own Armchair Opinionations 😯

    It’s quite simple yomm. You claimed the “simmering anger” was cultural .I merely put forward the opinion that perhaps bombing them randomly and continually might have something to do with it.

    From the site I linked to about Mexico, who are also now experiencing this, there appears to be plenty of simmering anger. Wait until they have experienced ot for as long as the ME has. Of course, it will most probably be inward driven, since that appears to be the source of the violence, whereas in the ME, the bombs come from both within and without

    I also (but tangentially) mentioned how it has been largely ignored.

    But, it certainly shows that having a population randomly killed and maimed on a daily basis does in fact seem to upset people. Unfathomable really isn’t it.

    But I will say having a religion as highly interpretable as Islam (just as xtianity is) so predominant within their culture does focus this “simmering anger” into one easily recognisable outlet.

  70. Walrus permalink
    December 17, 2014 10:11 am

    “But they refused to take him out…why??”

    Perhaps its because typical of most city buildings the windows are made of either 8mm toughened glass or equivalent laminate glass ( I know quite a bit about glass from a previous life).

    Any shot you might have seen in the movies is usually taken without any kind of obstructiuon. If they had risked a shot through the glass it might have missed the optimal target because of the glass and perhaps veered off to hit his backpack and created a very large noise sounding very much like

    KA——BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM !

  71. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 17, 2014 10:36 am

    “Perhaps its because typical of most city buildings the windows are made of either 8mm toughened glass or equivalent laminate glass

    I am sure i heard somewhere that the cafe was originally a police station. If so the glass may have been even thicker.

  72. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 17, 2014 10:36 am

    Vietnam and Cambodia could make claims to similar levels of foreign violence a generation earlier, but there has been no culture of anger in those countries. No international terrorism from them.

    Chile has had a protest movement despite the treatment of its representative governments and citizens by the US.

    My first experience with the culture of simmering anger in the ME was several decades ago, before there were US bombings and military intervention.

    The recent military interventions doesn’t explain the culture, perhaps many centuries of conflict and war does.

  73. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 17, 2014 10:37 am

    Chile has had only a protest movement…

  74. Tom R permalink
    December 17, 2014 10:44 am

    was several decades ago

    Just how old are you yomm 😯

    perhaps many centuries of conflict and war does.

    Europeans must be brimming with anger then

  75. Walrus permalink
    December 17, 2014 10:50 am

    “I am sure i heard somewhere that the cafe was originally a police station”

    I used to work around there many years ago it being an area known as a honey pot for “Corporate Greed” as the Lefties say.

    I dont recall it as a Cop station although with so many Banks there it possibly was before my time.

    But anyway all glass at street level is usually some type of safety glass.

  76. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 12:49 pm

    I don’t think so, but the discussion will get pretty dull if all anyone here does is provide links to the experience, opinion or research of others.

    And yet according to you ‘tother day, mine don’t count … make yer fkn mind up, ToM …

  77. Matt permalink
    December 17, 2014 1:34 pm

    It was a botched job and its going to be covered up. CCTV footage has already gone missing. Tori the deceased man (RIP) was wrestling the madman for the gun went it went off. This caused the troops to storm in shooting first, thinking later. Every single hostage was shot by a police bullet. The shotgun was never fired again. The operation was poor from the beginning right up to the end.

  78. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 1:48 pm

    Eveybody’s a fkn expert …

  79. Tom R permalink
    December 17, 2014 1:50 pm

    Eveybody’s a fkn expert …

    I’M NOT!

    I’m a know-it-all 🙂

  80. Tom R permalink
    December 17, 2014 1:57 pm

  81. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 1:57 pm

    Chile has had only a protest movement…

    Yeah, until Pinochet, pissed off!

    I did feel a bit unnerved in Santiago … and Egypt was a bit tense – armed military, police and tourist police certainly reduce it … the Egyptians are very shifty but get wary when they find out you are Australian … the Diggers certainly left a legacy …

  82. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 1:58 pm

    “Corporate Greed”

    Translation … Robber Barons …

  83. December 17, 2014 2:34 pm

    Who is this fucking Grub.. living in Texas #capitalisingontragedy #foxpuppet

  84. Tom R permalink
    December 17, 2014 3:35 pm

    Another fuxedknews xspurt who I’ll bet couldn’t anser this simple question either

    just how many mass shooting have been stopped by armed vigilantes in the states? I don’t recall too many offhand. But I do recall a lot of mass shootings.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2014/12/15/death-cult-blamed-for-chocolate-jihad-mayhem/#comment-88411

  85. Walrus permalink
    December 17, 2014 4:02 pm

    “”….just how many mass shooting have been stopped by armed vigilantes in the states? I don’t recall too many offhand. But I do recall a lot of mass shootings.””

    I agree

    I take almost no notice of their shootings anymore as it just seems like one blends into the next one these days.

    In fact I take more notice of whether I need to take an umbrella when I go out.

    There was even some moron on Fox News saying Australia was looking towards America for guidance on its gun laws the other day.

    I don’t know where that fuckwit got that idea from…………………idiot

  86. Tom R permalink
    December 17, 2014 4:13 pm

    I take almost no notice of their shootings anymore as it just seems like one blends into the next one these days.

    It’s a horrible thing to admit, but I’m very much like that too. De-sensitised to what is going in. And I’m guessing that what the gun lobby counts on.

  87. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 4:22 pm

    fuckwit©

  88. December 17, 2014 5:03 pm

  89. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 6:39 pm

    But Federal Court judge and the president of the Judicial Conference of Australia, Justice Steven Rares, said Mr Pierce was doing his job “honestly and in good faith, as we all would expect”.

    And well the Magistrate might be doing his job “honestly and in good faith the question is, his competency to actually make the decisions he did …

    And the High Court is in question when it had a split verdict in the case … sending in letters to the families of Diggers who had died in Afghanistan … a split decision?

    He sent letters? Is that not sedition? Harassment? And in context treasonous?

    A split decision … ?

    The only “system” in question at the moment is the ivory tower mentality of the justice legal system …

  90. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 6:40 pm

    Link for the pedantic (Oi include mesel’ …)

  91. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 6:41 pm

    Aw shit … should not comment when busy! G/kids on hols!

    Link… http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/judges-slam-attacks-on-monis-magistrate/story-e6frfku9-1227159755849

  92. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 17, 2014 6:49 pm

    Yes TB, he had convictions for sexual assault and was on murder charges. Anyone that has been convicted of sexual or violence should have a higher hurdle for release on bail than anyone else (and they should have to wear tracking devices for a decade or 2 after their release)

  93. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 17, 2014 6:54 pm

    THE Martin Place gunman Man Monis was acquitted of threatening to shoot his wife just two years ago as a magistrate threw out her application for an AVO, court files reveal.
    Less than a year later Noleen Hayson Pal was deadstabbed and burned alive
    , allegedly by Monis’ new girlfriend Amirah Droudis at his urging.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/sydney-siege-martin-place-monster-man-monis-was-cleared-of-threat-to-shoot-wife-a-year-later-she-was-stabbed-and-burned-alive/story-fnii5s3x-1227159405327

    More evidence that the legal system is an absolute crock.

  94. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 7:12 pm

    deadstabbed … unusual word … I see the American “dictionary” accepted it here …

    Most of us would say stabbed to death …

    More evidence that the legal system is an absolute crock.

    Yes, ToM, something that needs seriously reviewing …

    The only question/criticism I may have with the police is the number of rounds expended at one perpetrator?

  95. TB Queensland permalink
    December 17, 2014 7:22 pm

    But in a statement issued to media, NSW Police confirmed this was not true.

    “The NSW Police Force has conducted checks with the NSW Firearms Registry and can confirm there is no record of the 50-year-old man (Man Monis) having held a firearms licence,” the statement read.

    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/tony-abbott-wants-to-know-why-sydney-hostage-taker-man-haron-monis-had-a-gun-licence/story-fnhnv0wb-1227158943800?nk=9c717b89ba5b37a2ea9ab4b43546bcc7

    Please keep Abbott as PM until the election!

    Meanwhile the ALP can shift Shorten … please …

    Go Pauline!

  96. December 18, 2014 3:16 am

    Even a man who is pure in heart, and speaks in prayer by night…may become a wolf, when wolfsbane blooms & the inter moon is bright…

    …the last temptation…

  97. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 8:21 am

    Please keep Abbott as PM until the election!

    As tempting as it is, I’m more worried about the ongoing damage a delusional nutcase like him can reap. Why does he need to politicise everything.

    Having said that, I’m not sure anyone on the far right (which these days is pretty much the libs) can not play politics.

    We had a wonderful moment of national unity (almost) with hte #iilridewithyou but, as is their wont, the nutjobs are out there as we speak trying to rip it all down. Snippets of the main instigators previous blog rants are making appearances, context free of course, and a big “conspiracy” is being floated.

    Why cannot they just let a good dead stand?

    Well, good on Tessa. I’ll let her speak for herself (with some out of context phrases, but linked to the entire spiel so you can gather your own)

    The fact is that I don’t blame anyone for not taking this up. The attention is searing and I am indeed thinking of the Eye of Sauron. To step into this is to make yourself a target for all that is awful, and I don’t expect anyone to take this on, especially those who are already targeted. The offer remains while the media have any interest in what I say.

    ……

    For those asking I explain my ‘shockingly racist’ blog posts; the post you’re no doubt referring to is pretty self-explanatory. Rather surreal feeling the need to state that some of my best friends are white, and half of my family.

    ……

    I’m stepping back because I cannot and will not be a warm fuzzy story. That narrative is a trap. The fact that the hashtag is already being seen as competing with the narrative of the siege and hostages is proof of that. They are not in conflict with each other. I’ve not dwelled on the hostages and those who care about them because I can think of nothing to say in the face of such trauma. I hope they have safe spaces open to them.

    ………

    This incident was born of misogyny and domestic violence. Last month was White Ribbon Day. The experts have always been there. This is the time to talk to them.

    http://silence-without.blogspot.fr/2014/12/illridewithyou.html

    I particularly liked one of the tags used at the end if the post “fuck i’m tired and stupid, ” 🙂

  98. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 18, 2014 8:23 am

    “And in my best behavior
    I am really just like him
    Look beneath the floor boards
    For the secrets I have hid

  99. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 18, 2014 9:03 am

    I was thinking David Leyonhjelm was making sense on several issues, until today. It is crap to imagine that society would be safer if there were more people wandering around with guns in their bags.

    Just to ensure that if criminals needed a gun, all they’d have to do was mug a few people until they found one. It’s a very disappointing contribution by the Senator.

    (on the other hand, I think it is prudent for women to have some pepper spray available if they’re walking around alone)
    —————–
    With the slaughter of 140 children by Islamic extremists in Pakistan, it really is time for people to accept that the uncompromising scripture gives encouragement to those that are inclined towards irrational mass murder and mayhem.

  100. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 9:18 am

    it really is time for people to accept that the uncompromising scripture gives encouragement to those that are inclined towards irrational mass murder and mayhem.

    No doubt. But in its absence, another scapegoat is never too far away.

    I’ve looked into the heart of darkness
    Where the blood red journey ends
    When you’ve faced the heart of darkness
    Even your soul begins to bend

  101. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 9:25 am

    It is crap to imagine that society would be safer if there were more people wandering around with guns in their bags.

    I AGREE!

    “What happened in that cafe would have been most unlikely to have occurred in Florida, Texas, or Vermont, or Alaska in America, or perhaps even Switzerland as well,” Senator Leyonhjelm told the ABC’s AM program.

    “Statistically speaking” in those jurisdictions, “one or two of the victims” would have had a concealed gun, he said.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-18/australia-a-nation-of-victims-says-pro-gun-senator-leyonhjelm/5974684

    This is the same nutjob who defends cigarette companies. He’s just another brain dead moron, who ignores facts to suit his ramblings.

    Texas has been the site of some of the deadliest mass shootings of the past 50 years — but none as deadly as the Newtown murders. Here is a list of the worst mass shootings in Texas history:

    http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/12/the-list-the-deadliest-mass-shootings-in-texas-history/

    And I’ll still ask him my question. How many mass shootings has an armed vigilante stopped?

    More guns, more shootings, it’s pretty fucking simple math.

  102. December 18, 2014 9:33 am

  103. Meta permalink
    December 18, 2014 10:00 am

    (…it really is time for people to accept that the uncompromising scripture gives encouragement to those that are inclined towards irrational mass murder and mayhem

    Perhaps; the (never)ending round of tit-for-tat blow(s)back(s), mysteriously accompanied by expression(s) of realworld grievance(s), and (mis)uses of the (fools’) golden rule, does seem to (dis)embody fantastic storytelling(s).)

  104. December 18, 2014 10:02 am

    Tom R that John Oliver piece was fuck’en awesomely piss funny 🙂

  105. December 18, 2014 10:05 am

    Part 1

  106. December 18, 2014 10:07 am

    Whoops sorry

  107. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 10:21 am

    PM Abbott being asked how many refugees/migrants have ‘sat on their arse’ for the past 20 years.

    Are you fucking kidding me?

    Up until his stupidity with the “gun license” yesterday, yabot had actually performed admirably. Maybe credlins left for holidays, and he’s reverted to type?

    What a Prime Miniature he is.

  108. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 18, 2014 10:30 am

    The most fantastical storytelling comes from those who try to spin the story to their own preconceived notions. For example the denial fo the religious motive or that the siege had anything to do with Islam or the cynical denigration #illridewithyou.

  109. December 18, 2014 10:34 am

  110. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 10:45 am

    or that the siege had anything to do with Islam

    Well, it had as much to do with Islam as Breivik had to with with Christianity

    Obviously he was a religious nutter, but Islam had long ago abandoned him to his own delusions.

    Trying to tie it down to Islam is missing the whole point. He was a nutcase, who used a religion as his vent. He could have used Chucky films, and horror movies as whole would have been blamed I guess?

  111. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 10:47 am

    murdor senses their boy is lost, looks like they’re going for his replacement.

    I do recall bishop having a go at Gillard for doing a similar spread. Obviously she is far above that (or is it just better at it?)

  112. December 18, 2014 11:16 am

    “This is the same nutjob who defends cigarette companies. He’s just another brain dead moron, who ignores facts to suit his ramblings.”

    Yeah, he’s so much of a RWNJ that he’s also pro-gay marriage, pro-choice, pro-cannabis legalisation, pro-euthanasia, and pro-decriminalising victimless crimes.

  113. TB Queensland permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:17 am

    The most fantastical storytelling comes from those who try to spin the story to their own preconceived notions. For example the denial fo the religious motive or that the siege had anything to do with Islam or the cynical denigration #illridewithyou.

    Yep, only dem catliks know da troof! Allelooja!

  114. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:18 am

    Well, it had as much to do with Islam as Breivik had to with with Christianity

    Fine. Apparently Breivik claimed to be a Christian. He didn’t claim to be affiliated with any particular organised brand of the religion though. Unlike our own nutcase.

    “Trying to tie it down to Islam is missing the whole point.

    Really? I think we’re ignoring the fact that violent nutcases take comfort from the fact that their actions can be excused by a mainstream religion.

    Monday – siege by violent Islamic nutcase, ends in death to innocents
    Tuesday – slaughter of 130 school kids by violent Islamic nutcases

    Is there another philosophy or religion that is used to excuse the murder of school children?

    You don’t even seem to accept that there is an angry cultural problem, even if it isn’t entirely due to the religion.

  115. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:26 am

    Is there another philosophy or religion that is used to excuse the murder of school children?

    You mean, since the dark ages?

  116. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:31 am

    The LDP regards the right to own firearms for sport, hunting, collecting and self-defence as fundamental to a free society.

    Sounds good on the pamphlete tosy. But, as I unnerstand it, it is currently legal to own a firearm. So what are they offering that no one else is?

    His argument about armed people wandering the streets to “prevent crime” is just blatantly, obviously ridiculous. Why not put that on their web site?

  117. December 18, 2014 11:33 am

    “The LDP is neither pro-smoking nor anti-smoking; it is pro-choice. It is an individual’s choice whether they smoke, and a property-owner’s decision whether to allow smoking on their property. The LDP is also pro-tolerance. People may not approve of the decisions that others make about their own bodies, or their own property, but a truly tolerant society respects their right to make those choices.

    “The government should butt out of people’s freedom to choose.”

    http://ldp.org.au/index.php/policies/1163-smoking

  118. December 18, 2014 11:38 am

    The Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) believes:
    • Sport, hunting and self-defence are all legitimate reasons for firearm ownership.
    • Firearm ownership should be subject to possession of a licence. However, all adults over 18 years of age have a right to a licence unless it has been removed because of a history or genuine prospect of coercion.
    • Those who wish to carry a concealed firearm for self-defence are entitled to be issued with a permit to do so unless they have a history or genuine prospect of coercion.
    • All genuine sporting uses of firearms are legitimate.
    • There should be no registration of long-arms.
    • There should be no prohibitions or special limits on semi-automatic firearms.
    • Individuals and organisations are entitled to establish facilities that involve the use of firearms. This includes shooting ranges and hunting reserves.
    • Impediments to children participating in safe shooting activities should be removed.
    • Airsoft and paintball should be deregulated apart from measures to protect innocent bystanders.

  119. December 18, 2014 11:39 am

    “The 1996-97 National Firearms Agreement (NFA) in Australia introduced strict gun
    laws, primarily as a reaction to the mass shooting in Port Arthur, Tasmania in 1996,
    where 35 people were killed. Despite the fact that several researchers using the same
    data have examined the impact of the NFA on firearm deaths, a consensus does not
    appear to have been reached. In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm
    deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means
    to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did
    not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.”

    http://www.melbourneinstitute.com/downloads/working_paper_series/wp2008n17.pdf

  120. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:39 am

    “The government should butt out of people’s freedom to choose.”

    And for Killers to fund them.

    Senator Leyonhjelm said he had no qualms about accepting donations from companies that produced products that can kill users, because smokers can “freely choose” to take up the habit.

    “We are very pleased to receive the donations and we hope to receive them from the other tobacco companies,” he said.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/phillip-morris-donated-to-liberal-democrat-senator-david-leyonhjelm-20141001-10oux4.html

  121. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:40 am

    …Man Monis was acquitted of threatening to shoot his wife just two years ago as a magistrate threw out her application for an AVO, court files reveal.
    Less than a year later Noleen Hayson Pal was deadstabbed and burned alive…

    Time and time again these men are let loose to terrorise their families. Not even forced to undergo DV counselling. What do the police spend their time and resources on these days?

    Now that the siege is over, it’s great to finally get back to rolling coverage of Julie Bishop’s wardrobe.

    I just don’t get it, why do they do it? Gillard looked just as silly when she did her knitting shoot, now bishop is acting all celebrity.

    …For example the denial fo the religious motive or that the siege had anything to do with Islam or the cynical denigration…

    Madness and religion go hand in hand. Religion cultivates and harbours madness, criminality and tortured minds.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-17/kohn-mad-or-bad-the-inadequacy-of-the-lone-wolf-theory/5973478

    …Perhaps if mad was also seen as bad, he would have been stopped in his tracks well before it all came to a hideous end. Viewing the tragedy in the Lindt Café as a ‘one off’ by a ‘maddy’ is not only wishful thinking, it is also ignorant of the many cases that the police and intelligence services have already foiled. It is a terrible pity that the ‘fake Sheikh’ was not on their watch list, perhaps too mad to be taken seriously…

    …Delusional megalomania or religiously justified predation, the results were the same, the harm of followers.

  122. Walrus permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:44 am

    “”Well, it had as much to do with Islam as Breivik had to with with Christianity””

    Not according to the lads from ISIL who found a great deal of joy in the events of Monday.

    And of course those guys are quite sane roaming around killing people in the name of Islam.

  123. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:44 am

    I was listening to an interview on the ABC (can’t recall those involved), regarding the violent history of Man Haron Monis. The point was made, very effectively, that terrorists and despots are likely to have diagnosable psychosis. There is no point in suggesting that any of them should be excused as another nutcase, because that’s what they all are.

    Islamic fanatics can take comfort from the notion that god is talking to them, and telling them that their slaughter is his wish. Non religious fanatics inclined to violence don’t have the encouragement of the direct communication with god.

  124. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:49 am

    …Senator Leyonhjelm said he had no qualms about accepting donations from companies that produced products that can kill users, because smokers can “freely choose” to take up the habit…

    That’s ideology, he uses ‘habit’ and ‘free choice’ in the one sentence. If he knew anything about addiction, he would know that there is no free choice in addiction.

    Has anyone else noticed all the ciggies and smoking in the movies these days? Gone are the days that smoking was not seen in movies and TV because they knew it appealed to the youth.

    Do the tobacco companies pay for this promotion of their product?

  125. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:53 am

    Tony, I’m not keen on a system of firearm regulation that means if you mug 6 people you’re likely to get your hands on 2 guns.

  126. December 18, 2014 11:54 am

    Apparently Man Haron’s missus is still roaming the streets on bail – and she was the one who murdered and set his ex-wife on fire – not just an accessory…

    Mike Baird couldn’t explain why she hasn’t been apprehended when questioned about it by the media this morning.

  127. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 11:56 am

    Gotta say tosy, that gun control report is an eye opener for me

    cheers

  128. December 18, 2014 12:01 pm

    The LDP…FFS 🙄 right up there with moter enthusiasts, fishing party and shooters.. at least with the sex party you get laid and they let you know up front..

    All these other fucktards just roger you cluelessly fibbing their way through legislative extortion…

    Extremist anything is bad, but those who hijack the language of cause are the most dangerous as they wrap their subversive ideology around libertarian label which apparently qualifies their heinous greed as a supreme right at the expense of the greater good.

  129. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 18, 2014 12:05 pm

    Thanks AO, it was an interview with Rachael Kohn that I was listening to. She makes the point well.

  130. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 12:08 pm

    And of course those guys are quite sane roaming around killing people in the name of Islam.

    There are a lot of crazies roaming around killing in the name of the One Dog.

    McQuilliams’ possible ties to the Phineas Priesthood may sound strange, but it’s actually unsettlingly common. In fact, his association with the hateful religious group highlights a very real — but often under-reported — issue: terrorism enacted in the name of Christ.

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/04/3599271/austin-shooter-christian-extremism/

  131. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 12:14 pm

    Yes, great link AO

    Now, however, both the professional media and social media have turned previous nobodies into rock stars overnight, and none more obviously than the ginger haired jihadi, the Australian teenager who joined ISIS and goes under the name Abu Khaled Australia. Seeing how readily clips from his self-made video were screened world-wide has made it an obvious route for disaffected youth yearning for instant stardom.

    Although, this has been touched on before 😉

  132. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 18, 2014 12:14 pm

    ..and as Rachael Kohn now points out, concerns are hardly new. She wrote this about 5 years ago…

    Then, as now, he is given to extreme attention seeking behaviour. The difference is that then he claimed to be a liberal and convinced Stephen Crittenden to describe him as such on ABC Radio National’s The Religion Report [January 31, 2001]. Now Sheik Haron is busy converting a property in Campsie, New South Wales, to a prayer hall and a book shop in a bid to teach his extremist form of Islam.
    —————-
    I have read the sheik’s faxes, letters on custom letterhead, and CDs in which he openly promoted the glorious calling of jihad against the West and celebrated the deaths of Australians in war and in the Victorian bushfires.
    According to him, the deaths of both soldiers and civilians were the work of Allah, who metes out punishment to those who offend or harm Muslims.
    —————-
    In a fax he sent to Prime Minister Kevin Rudd with a copy to me, he asserted that the deaths of people in the bushfires was Allah’s revenge on Australians, because the government did not oppose the death penalty for the Bali bombers. It’s clear where his sympathies lie.
    During a week when everyone in the media pointed the finger at the Christian group, Catch the Fire Ministries, which interpreted the Victorian bushfires as God’s revenge on the Victorian government that had recently passed legislation legalising abortion, I announced in my February 15 edition of The Spirit of Things on ABC Radio National that the ‘renegade Sheik Haron’ had propagated an equally extreme view.
    —————–
    In the many media conferences and interfaith meetings I’ve attended, Muslims have regularly complained that the media cast them in a poor light.
    However valid that complaint may be, it loses all credibility when they don’t go after the radicals in their community.
    If they don’t, the media will do it for them.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-11-09/radical-muslim-cleric-goes-unchecked/1135594

  133. December 18, 2014 12:19 pm

    Gotta say tosy, that gun control report is an eye opener for me
    cheers

    Well modeling and equations are all very good.. but ask any cop this question..

    Are we safer knowing that it is illegal ( only a deterrent law) that
    1 Aust oand semi auto firearms are illegal?

    2. People cannot carry handguns in public unless with good cause (security, law enforcement..ect)

    It is a fact that if someone wants a gun on the black market like tobacco they will get it but regulation is a means of deterrent. Suiciders will do it anyway if they have made up their mind…
    How many mass shootings since the central coast, port Arthur and strathfield post the 96 legislation?
    How many rage fueled situations were averted by tighter regulation to fire arms?

    I dont buy it… I have played places to rednecks who I can attest am glad that they do not have a fire arm on them..

  134. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 18, 2014 12:30 pm

    …The point was made, very effectively, that terrorists and despots are likely to have diagnosable psychosis. There is no point in suggesting that any of them should be excused as another nutcase, because that’s what they all are…

    exactly. And when they communicate with their god, surprisingly god gives them permission to do whatever it is that they want to do. god agrees with them on everything. Bush invaded another country because he was ‘chosen’ by his god to do so.

    abbott has a touch of the megalomania about him, he channels a lot of it into his voluntary community ‘good deeds’ and sporting activities. His religion seems to be first and foremost in his mind, he waxes biblical and tends to sermonise to the public in bible bashing terminology. He didn’t get called ‘the mad monk’ for nothing. He probably believes he is PM due to his god’s will.

  135. Meta permalink
    December 18, 2014 1:18 pm

    (I don’t know; that seems a bit like unwarranted character assassination; sure, the Prime Minister might jocularly say things like, “The only one of the Ten Commandments that I am confident that I have not broken is the one about killing, and that’s because I haven’t had the opportunity yet”; and, sure, it might be written of him that, “Tony Abbott likes bang-bangs and strives to imagine the taste of battlefield grit in the mouth, so much so he has been known to ask soldiers over dinner whether they have been shot at”; but those sorts of accounts of rapport-building and elucidatory empathicisation would seem to speak more for him, than against.)

  136. Meta permalink
    December 18, 2014 2:33 pm

    (Apparently Man Haron’s missus is still roaming the streets on bail – and she was the one who murdered and set his ex-wife on fire – not just an accessory…Mike Baird couldn’t explain why she hasn’t been apprehended when questioned about it by the media this morning.

    Just one of those questions begging to be asked and unanswered, I guess; without reference or prejudice to a notional separation of powers. Nevertheless, it’s apparently also good that the Sydney Siege wasn’t quite so botched that a self-executing, summary trial-and-sentence cleared a whole gaggle of outstanding matters hitherto before the courts, by instantaneously converting untested allegations and charges into (un)reviewable facts-as-statemented: Sydney siege: Tony Abbott announces urgent review, including looking at Man Haron Monis’ access to firearms.)

  137. December 18, 2014 2:55 pm

    The Australia I love

  138. December 18, 2014 3:09 pm

    The flowers are pretty, but given that there’s probably about half a million dollars worth just sitting there that will be chucked in the next few days, wouldn’t the money have been better spent on a fund for the victims’ families?

  139. Walrus permalink
    December 18, 2014 4:08 pm

    Meet Tessa Klum of illridewithyou# fame. She’s a real charming piece of shit.

    It seems she’s a failed Greens candidate with a huge chip on her shoulder………..

    “”I’m learning about hate because I am coming to hate you, white person. You have all the control, all the power, all the privilege, and there is nothing holding you accountable. I hate the double standards and hypocrisy you display, the rank dishonesty of your conduct. I hate that you can harm us, when we cannot harm you. I hate that you have actually impacted on careers, multiple and not even directly, with your hypocrisy. I hate that you’re so dominant in the publishing industry there’s very few venues I’d consider safe to even submit to now. I hate what you have done to PoC I don’t know. I hate what you have done to PoC I do know. I hate what you have done to me, and I was not involved.””

    What an absolute fucking moron !

  140. Walrus permalink
    December 18, 2014 4:09 pm

    Seems like if you feel bad about something just attach a # to it and youré all fixed up

  141. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 18, 2014 4:36 pm

    Some people are just so full of hate.

  142. Splatterbottom permalink
    December 18, 2014 4:37 pm

    “The flowers are pretty, but given that there’s probably about half a million dollars worth just sitting there that will be chucked in the next few days, wouldn’t the money have been better spent on a fund for the victims’ families?”

    Why?

  143. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 18, 2014 4:50 pm

    Seems like if you feel bad about something just attach a # to it and youré all fixed up

    It’s the system that Teabagz uses.

  144. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 5:46 pm

    Some people are just so full of hate.

    ROFL

    None so blind

    https://theguttertrash.com/2014/12/16/security-expert-police-botched-sydney-siege/#comment-88576

  145. Walrus permalink
    December 18, 2014 6:26 pm

    “”I’m learning about hate because I am coming to hate you, white person. You have all the control, all the power, all the privilege, and there is nothing holding you accountable.”

    I think Tessa Klum might be a tad uneducated or fucking stupid.

    Just who is President of the USA at the moment ?

  146. Walrus permalink
    December 18, 2014 6:30 pm

    “…white person. You have all the control, all the power, all the privilege, and there is nothing holding you accountable.”

    Ummm……………….who heads up China at the moment ?……………..a whitey ?

    What about India or Pakistan ?

    So seems to me that over half of the fucking world population is headed up by non whites.

    What a fucking moron she is.

  147. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 6:34 pm

    might be a tad uneducated or fucking stupid.

    Just who is President of the USA at the moment ?


    What about India or Pakistan ?

    😯

    wow wally. You’ve posted some dumbass shit before, but your reaching new heights(?) with this one

    Swivelling in your privileged seat overlooking your priviliged views, you obviously understand exactly where she is coming from.

    Funnily enough, I get the feeling you might just be the embodiment of the “white person” she is learning to hate.

    You’re a great teacher in that respect 🙂

  148. Walrus permalink
    December 18, 2014 6:38 pm

    “I get the feeling you might just be the embodiment of the “white person” she is learning to hate. ”

    swivellinginchair#

    Ahhhhhhhh……………….I feel so much better now

  149. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 6:54 pm

    I feel so much better now

    typical privileged swiveller

    the tags at the wrong end 😆

    #feelingthreatenedbythehavenots

  150. Tom R permalink
    December 18, 2014 7:05 pm

    “Our best defence is of course our cultured reason,” he wrote in August. “Our tolerance. Our audacious confidence in the fundamental goodness of others. Maybe even our sense of humour.”

    This idealistic approach denies reality and can lead to dangerous complacency. As an ABC opinion leader, Green should know better.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/cultured-reason-meaningless-response-in-face-of-death-cult/story-fn8qlm5e-1227159893002

    Chris Kenny is battling with wally in the stupidity steaks(!)

    will wally try and outdo him?

  151. TB Queensland permalink
    December 18, 2014 7:15 pm

    … wouldn’t the money have been better spent on a fund for the victims’ families?

    I reckon, sreb, but people are really not practical when it comes to money …

    … look at all those cathedrals and stately homes throughout the UK and Europe … built as 9 yo kids died in the mines and on battlefields and warships (yep!) and the mills and … working anywhere!

    And today … dumb phones (and the attendant Telco fees), LED TVs, not many old cars on the roads, eat out etc … and you just have to send your child to a private school … but we can’t afford a mortgage for a McMansion …

    No logic …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And it turns out our spontaneous Prime Miniature was really wrong … Monis never had a gun licence … apparently … and had a hang over on the Breakfast Show …

    Just who IS running my country?

  152. TB Queensland permalink
    December 18, 2014 7:18 pm

    Some people are just so full of hate.

    Or shite … or affected by shite?

    the tags at the wrong end

    Back to the fifties? 😯

  153. December 18, 2014 7:27 pm

    #getthefuckoverit #hashtaghater

  154. Walrus permalink
    December 18, 2014 10:46 pm

    #notfeelingthreatenedbythehavenotswhonevertookariskandonlyfeelenvyonceoverthehill

  155. December 18, 2014 11:38 pm

    #hashtagtoolongcantbefucked2readit
    #rantigwhitewalrus
    #taxadermywalrus

  156. December 19, 2014 12:14 am

    Fantastic article by Waleed Aly
    And it’s a history to be determined by what we decide this tragedy symbolises: the sordid ideology of a man who deserves to be forgotten or the greatest virtues of those of us left behind.

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/sydney-gunman-man-haron-monis-a-real-sheikh-only-to-himself-20141216-128h9x.html

  157. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 19, 2014 1:00 am

  158. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 19, 2014 1:06 am

  159. Tom R permalink
    December 19, 2014 7:58 am

    Classy indeed. Does wally moonlight?

  160. Tom R permalink
    December 19, 2014 8:11 am

    Further to the libertarian crackpot up thread

    Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
    Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

    Then the tool doubles down on the stoopid

    I’ll pick QI over a loon like that guy

  161. December 19, 2014 9:53 am

    I’ll pick QI over a loon like that guy

    Awesome!! 🙂

    If you want to study political science go strait to the source.. the Illuminati bankers that write the script for the actors. America has a Denzil Washinton.. we got some reject from a 50’s tobacco commercial…

  162. Walrus permalink
    December 19, 2014 10:25 am

    “”If Abbott Govt held spending at Labor’s levels, budget would be in surplus in 2016-17, as Labor planned “”

    —The Kouk

    Even one of the junior economic students on his blog picked him up on his latest post in stupidity…….

    “”After the 2012-13 budget which was handed down in May 2013, Labor then went on to introduce several large programs, most of which have a tendency to blow out: the NDIS, Gonski, increased asylum seeker management costs. I am not sure it is sound thinking to compare the May budget with what the Liberal government are now dealing with as the Liberal government now has to deal with all these new programs introduced by Labor in the lead up to the election which occurred after the May 2013 budget which appears to be used by Stephan as a reference point.””

  163. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 19, 2014 11:34 am

  164. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 19, 2014 12:14 pm

Trackbacks

  1. The Sydney False Flag Siege | justintimed's Blog

Go on say something, you'll feel better...

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: