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Tales from Abroad (Part whatever…)

January 11, 2015

Chinatown Weapons

Long standing readers of The Trash (dog help you), may recall that a few years ago I decided I needed a hobby. As a teenager I tried carving things out of balsa wood as well as collecting matchboxes, but like most things I quickly lost interest, particularly when what I thought was going to be the Statue of David turned out to be something resembling a sex toy for an adolescent gay teen yet to reconcile or at the very least recognise his sexuality.

A few years ago, I attempted to rekindle some romantic notion of collecting things, and with thanks to some fairly frequent employer funded air travel at the time, I began collecting those envelope sized motion sickness bags they make available in the seat pocket in front of you.

At first glance it had all the makings of a legitimate hobby.  Were they different and unusual? Why yes. Most carried the airline’s insignia and some even included instructions for usage.  Some were made from glazed paper, impervious to liquid, while others, usually from the low cost airlines, were made from comparatively porous material in the form of uncoated recycled paper.

One bag from one particular Asian airline, included instructions as to how to carefully fold and dispose of the satchel after use, making it both functional and disgusting.

Were they east to obtain? Yes. And portable too. Which made them easy to collect, categorise and store.

Were they practical? Most definitely. While not partial to motion sickness myself, I would occasionally carry one or two around, just in case someone else might find themselves in need of one.

Once, for instance, in a former job, I handed one to the receptionist who on this particular morning looked rather pale.

While she stared blankly at the Air New Zealand logo, I whispered reassuringly “for your morning sickness,” after finding out from a co-worker that she had recently fallen pregnant.  She didn’t really say much at the time, and looked up with a vacant expression, which I took to as a small measure of gratitude.

On another occasion I gave one to another colleague who turned up to work grossly hungover. “Just in case you need it,” I said.

While not without its charm,  collecting vomit bags soon lost its appeal.   Particularly when the escalating costs of fuel forced many airlines to make significant cut backs. Just like those little complimentary toothbrush and toothpaste packs, disposable razors and shaving foam packs, as well as complimentary newspapers and magazines, branded vomit bags have all but gone from even the most luxurious of airlines.

Most, if any today, just carry a dull little paper bag, which like many other aspects of modern flying, takes the fun out of something that takes the fun out of flying.

More recently, you’ll be pleased to know that I’ve taken up a new hobby which is both exciting and unusual.

Now, while I wouldn’t really call myself an “Arms Dealer,” or even an “Arms Smuggler” by any stretch of the imagination, you would be amazed at the sheer scope and range of what some might call lethal weaponry you can buy overseas. I realise that it might not be everybody’s cup of tea, but when you’ve been to Bangkok as many times as I have, visiting the same old bars, temples and shrines soon loses its appeal.

Obligatory souvenirs like silk scarves, buddha statues and wooden elephants are ten a penny but for the more discerning visitor I recommend a visit to the old city of Rattanakosin, just outside Chinatown.

While not exactly on the tourist route, presumably due to the ever-present, foreboding sense of imminent danger, here you can find everything you need to seize control of a small nation.  If you’ve ever fantasised about becoming a member of SWAT or the riot police then this place is for you.

A street length of stalls peddle wares from military uniforms – from basic black with “POLICE” emblazoned on the front – to military fatigues in a variety of shades and patterns, to bullet proof vests and holsters.

Sure, in other markets in and around Bangkok it’s not uncommon to find stallholders selling BB guns, knuckle dusters and the occasional banned laser pointer.  Here however, you can buy industry strength weaponry including assault rifles, handguns and tasers. All sold out in the open as if it were a fruit and veggie market.

Purchasing a handgun as a keep sake did cross my mind, and as I admired one particular vendor’s range of hand guns, he handed me a Glock 19 to get a feel its weight and fit for my hand. “Standard issue for Thai police,” he said proudly while demonstrating  how to aim and reload it.

Casually turning my attention to another weapon he said “This one James Bond gun.”   Oh, a Walther PPK I said, hoping that he might be impressed with the only thing I knew about guns obviously from the movies, and he shot me a look of complete disinterest.

You can buy a police issue taser gun for $70 from the Rattanakosin market, a flick knife for $25 and a set of five star shaped throwing blades (the type Ninja’s use in the movies) for the same price.

A telescopic baton, the type used by riot police, will set you back a mere $5 or you can upgrade to the more expensive model at $15 which has a rubber handle for greater flexibility and mobility.  “I think I quite like this one” I said, making a striking motion with the premium model.  The seller, who by all accounts, lost interest in dental hygiene many years ago, nodded in agreement offering what was left of his teeth as a smile.

I neglected to enquire about stun grenades or the availability or a rocket launcher, an oversight I later regretted, but catching a glimpse of an assault rifle to my right I got the impression that pretty much everything here was on offer, save for say an incendiary nuclear device or biological weapon, (but then again you never know if you don’t ask).

So I settled for a couple of cans of capsicum spray and decided to call it a day.  Quietly confident that this could be the humble beginnings of a new hobby should one day I decide to mount a military coup in New Zealand or some such place that needs it.

 

 

 

 

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161 Comments
  1. January 11, 2015 2:53 pm

    Viva La Revolucion(ette)! Did you get fried with htat?

  2. January 11, 2015 2:55 pm

    No solly I men Flies with tat, um no fries wiv lat (a pox on auto-correction!)

  3. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 11, 2015 7:47 pm

    Collecting sickness bags does seem practical and jetsetting. It is so much more likely to stimulate conversation than (say) collecting match books from hotels.

    “A telescopic baton, the type used by riot police, will set you back a mere $5

    A bargain! Could you bring one back for me?

  4. TB Queensland permalink
    January 11, 2015 8:01 pm

    erm, hate to tell ya this, sreb, but capsicum sprays is illeagle in Oz … I know, bugga …

    And the intrepid traveller obviously putting you “deliberately” or (I suspect) ignorantly at risk with a baton order …

    mmmm … bgoozee, he sound loike, Tbagz, love child … whoo ..oo

  5. January 11, 2015 9:13 pm

    “” capsicum sprays is illeagle in Oz “”

    You don’t say…?

    That’s part of the excitement – getting it thru customs.

  6. January 11, 2015 11:37 pm

    ”””””’That’s part of the excitement – getting it thru customs.””

    #Then you should`a went with the `up-market` automatic assault weaponry, which would automatically include complementary `strip` and `cavity` (welcome back to Oz) search from customs-plod. 🙂

  7. Tom R permalink
    January 12, 2015 9:00 am

    as well as complimentary newspapers and magazines, branded vomit bags have all but gone from even the most luxurious of airlines.

    So when will newspapers be sold with complimentary vomit bags for the discerning reader.

    They are a match made in heaven.

    btw, I hope your new hobby doesn’t take off, purely for selfish reasons, as I like your current hobby right here providing an outlet for outlets 😉

  8. Walrus permalink
    January 12, 2015 4:58 pm

    “That’s part of the excitement – getting it thru customs.”

    Would you like a full body cavity search with that Sir ?

  9. Walrus permalink
    January 12, 2015 4:59 pm

    Oooops……Tbagz beat me to it

  10. January 12, 2015 6:07 pm

    “”Would you like a full body cavity search “”

    I practically insist on it (depending on the immigration official).

  11. TB Queensland permalink
    January 12, 2015 7:59 pm

    So what happened to the occasional electric tug, sreb?

  12. TB Queensland permalink
    January 12, 2015 8:00 pm

    Noice to have ya back, mate!

  13. January 12, 2015 8:29 pm

    My hair! My hair!

  14. TB Queensland permalink
    January 12, 2015 8:34 pm

    Well we know where you cavity is then … Toillette!

  15. January 12, 2015 9:15 pm

    Explicit.

  16. January 13, 2015 7:16 am

    “”So what happened to the occasional electric tug, sreb?””

    I lost interest.

  17. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 8:01 am

    I had to laugh this morning when I glanced at the oz in the petrol station with the headline “Online fix to classroom crisis”.

    This, from the paper most responsible for the killing of the NBN

    ROFL :facepalm:

  18. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 8:12 am

    This is what the reptiles in the oz have achieved. How soon before it is all blamed on Labor I wonder?

    In the year Australia was meant to roll ahead with broadband infrastructure to rival other developed nations, the nation has found itself dropping well behind the curve when it comes to internet speeds.

    Australia’s average connection speeds rank just 44th in Akamai’s annual State of the Internet report released on Monday, down four places from the previous year’s report which examines internet connection speeds and broadband uptake around the world.

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/12/australia-drops-further-in-internet-speed-rankings-after-nbn-indecision-and-delay

  19. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 13, 2015 8:38 am

    “How soon before it is all blamed on Labor I wonder?

    How soon before people start realising that Labor policies don’t work. Labor likes to talk big but is hopeless at implementing policies. Six years was long enough to produce something but Labors NBN was going nowhere and it is too late to stop and start again.

    We would have been better off with the Howard govt broadband plan.

  20. egg permalink
    January 13, 2015 8:50 am

    ‘Satirical French publication Charlie Hebdo could not be printed in Australia under existing restrictions on free speech.’

    Joe Kelly (Oz)

  21. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 9:28 am

    We would have been better off with the Howard govt broadband plan.

    brain-fart is a better description of what howard belatedly tried on.

  22. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 9:36 am

    Joe Kelly (Oz)

    So, the hate-mongers are using the Paris tragedy to push their barrow.

    Nice ………….. not

  23. January 13, 2015 9:41 am

    ‘Satirical French publication Charlie Hebdo could not be printed in Australia under existing restrictions on free speech.’

    Actually, that’s a little bit bullshit.

    It could be printed here, it’s just that anyone who felt offended by reading could then lodge a complaint.

  24. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 9:49 am

    that’s a little bit bullshit.

    A little bit?

    Well, for the oz, it prob is just a little in comparison 😉

    But really, do the words “too soon” mean anything to these ambulance chasing reptiles?

  25. TB Queensland permalink
    January 13, 2015 10:23 am

    Six years was long enough to produce something …

    And you know this how? The NBN is a UNIQUE project never attempted in a nation the size of Australia …

    You have special knowledge … or is it just the usual BS …?

    We would have been better off with the Howard govt broadband plan.

    And been 144th in the world … you really are a dopey, ignorant, little prick.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    It could be printed here, it’s just that anyone who felt offended by reading could then lodge a complaint.

    But the gun laws would prevent that … 😉

  26. TB Queensland permalink
    January 13, 2015 10:29 am

    The NBN is a UNIQUE project …

    Well, it was until till Malcolm Turncoat got hold of it …

    Speaking of computers … my new super PC is finally up and running!

    Would you believe … the motherboard was replaced just before Xmas – faulty … the graphics card was replaced yesterday – faulty … the set of ram (x4) was replaced yesterday – one stick faulty … (had to send then back to Taiwan!)

    The good news is that on the Windows Performance Index it gets a score of 7.8 … highest is 7.9 …

    Starts windows in less than 20 seconds … whooo hooo … eat ya heart out Wally …

    And HDMI on PCs is brilliant!

  27. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 10:40 am

    And HDMI on PCs is brilliant!

    Does this mean you will need to find better grade of torrent 😉

  28. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 10:41 am

    Why do I get the feeling we are being primed for something?

    here has been speculation that all eight Future Frigates would be built in Adelaide, but a crucial report says using an existing design for the warships would be the least risky option, and that would “mostly likely” have to happen offshore.

    ……………..

    The report, from the US-based Rand Corporation, comes amid continuing uncertainty over the Future Submarines project.

    Rand is working on a Naval Shipbuilding Plan for the Government ahead of its White Paper, due this year. The report is sponsored by Australia’s Future Frigate program.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/report-to-government-shows-future-frigates-project-could-go-overseas/story-fni6uo1m-1227182594930?from=public_rss&utm_content=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&utm_source=AdelaideAdvertiser&utm_medium=Twitter

    It appears that the yanks reckon we should get theirs 😉

  29. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 10:51 am

    And more from the remnants of yabots destruction

    General Motors has unveiled two Australian designed and built concept cars at the Detroit Auto Show, in a move the chief designer said showed the company “is really a believer” in Australian design.

    …..

    This year’s Detroit Auto Show marks a turning point for American carmakers. The $US80 billion bailout of the industry came to an end a few weeks ago.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-13/gm-unveils-two-new-australian-designed-and-built-cars/6013588

    How does a local industry, combating an already extremely high dollar, combat that kind of investment.

    Simple, it doesn’t. Not without a Government prepared to support Australian jobs it doesn’t anyway.

    And yet our industry is still in demand. Fucken muppets our current lot of saboteurs are

  30. TB Queensland permalink
    January 13, 2015 11:24 am

    Does this mean you will need to find better grade of torrent

    Shhhh … don’t wake the walrus … 😉

  31. January 13, 2015 11:45 am

    How soon before we realise that Nills is a halfwit recalcitrant trolling inbacile

    Oh wait…

    And Egg that is an outright bold faced lie…

  32. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 11:48 am

    And Egg that is an outright bold faced lie…

    grodo specialises in perpetuating those from the oz Ricky 😉

  33. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 13, 2015 12:32 pm

    “And yet our industry is still in demand. Fucken muppets our current lot of saboteurs are

    Under Labor, local manufacture went from 25% to less than 10%. Only a fool would think a local industry could survive with 10% of the market.

    The more money Rudd/Gillard gave GM/Ford/Toyota the less they sold.

    “You have special knowledge … or is it just the usual BS …?

    Just common sense. Look at what Labor did to the local car manufacturing industry. It went from 1 in 4 locally made to less than 1 in 10.

    Labor policies do not work. They do talk big however and it does impress people with small minds.

  34. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 13, 2015 1:03 pm

    When there’s evidence that employees and their representatives did everything they could to save motor vehicle industry then perhaps the government can be criticised from not doing everything they could.

    Weren’t Australian vehicles already the most highly subsidised on a per vehicle basis?

  35. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 1:03 pm

    Only a fool would think a local industry could survive with 10% of the market.

    That’s with a fully open market and the dollar at extreme highs.

    Like everything, there are troughs, it’s just the conservatives saw the trough and decided to kill an industry

    The same argument could have been made in the early eighties, but the Government of the day stuck by them, and they came good again.

    Just common sense.

    ROFL

    The OPEL network was exposed as the sham it was. howards brain fart was nothing more than an election panic

  36. Tom R permalink
    January 13, 2015 1:22 pm

    Weren’t Australian vehicles already the most highly subsidised on a per vehicle basis?

    I saw a comparison a while ago, and we were about in the middle

    Mind you, this was taken while the US had their massive stimulus going, but it also ignored things like tariffs etc (which are the biggest killer)

    http://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-other-countries-subsidise-their-car-industry-more-than-we-do-16308

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-11/bill-shorten-car-subsidy-numbers-irrelevant-outdated/5251536

  37. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 13, 2015 3:52 pm

    “and they came good again.

    Going from 25% of local sales to 10% of local sales was coming good again??

    The more money the ALP gave car manufacturers resulted in local sales becoming the lowest ever. If they doubled the money they gave Holden it would have wiped out the industry

    “The OPEL network was exposed as the sham it was”

    Firstly it was never tried. Secondly OPEL was for regional areas. There was another policy for urban areas.

  38. January 13, 2015 8:53 pm

    ”””””””General Motors has unveiled two Australian designed and built concept cars at the Detroit Auto Show, in a move the chief designer said showed the company ”is really a believer” in Australian design.””””’

    #Yeah, big deal, GMH `may` still employ half-a-dozen aussie-designers, so what.? are you inferring that taxpayer-dollars should be extorted to detroit because of this.?

  39. January 13, 2015 9:46 pm

    Thanks for the shopping tips. You can never have too many weapons.

  40. January 13, 2015 11:31 pm

    Opel? what a fucking moron..

    Hint.. Optus already had a national carrier licence but refused to build infrastructure in the bush and only after the fiberals sold Testra with the promise of 950 mill from government coffers did they and elders place their snout in the trough with the most shabby of DSlam design hanging off the existing ill repaired and ageing copper network essentially as a subsidised reseller… it was frankly an embarrassing mates deal cash grab that nobody bid for or wanted.. it was an industry joke.

    Labor killed the car industry as NIL for the thousandth time despite being chard to ash ..
    Give it a rest you fucking imbecile FFS
    The industry is dead, no amount of money and political rhetorical nonsense from any party or flag waving nationalism can save an industry that is making cars that nobody wants with an uncompetitive business model…

    fucking make solar panels to counteract the astronomical energy price gouging rather than shit cars….

  41. egg permalink
    January 14, 2015 7:09 am

    ‘It could be printed here, it’s just that anyone who felt offended by reading could then lodge a complaint.’

    OK, I didn’t know that. Its what got the Bolter in strife with they aren’t really black enough to deserve government assistance.

  42. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 8:08 am

    are you inferring that taxpayer-dollars should be extorted to detroit because of this.?

    Are you unable to read?

    Labor killed the car industry as NIL for the thousandth time despite being chard to ash ..

    Are you able to elaborate on that at all?

  43. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 8:25 am

    yabot has given the populace the big finger. The question remains, will they give it back to him (or whoever might be leader come the time)?

    If health is supposed to be one of the things Abbott is sending a new message to the nation on, then that message translated is simply “Screw You”.

    As a means of going around the Senate to have his great big new Sick Tax implemented Abbott and his former henchman come Health Minister Peter Dutton concocted a scheme to cut the rebate paid to doctors, thus forcing doctors to have two options, charge the patients or effectively halve their income.

    http://wixxyleaks.com/medicine-train-the-sick-tax-is-coming-january-19th/

    I just hope Labor do actually block this. But they are taking their time in what should be straight forward opposition for what is obviously a devious and tricky manipulation of voters intentions.

  44. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 8:42 am

    And is this where it will all end?

    Medicare cuts could swamp hospital emergency departments, say doctors

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/health/medicare-cuts-could-swamp-hospital-emergency-departments-say-doctors-20150113-12nffk.html

    If the grubmint REALLY wanted to save money, why not cut the rebate to private insurance? Or just a parentage of the rebate?

  45. January 14, 2015 8:57 am

    Are you able to elaborate on that at all?

    Yeah the word says is missing from that sentence

    Nill sole purpose in life is to be repetitively inane, most people make a point, prosecute it in the thread topic then move on. Nills uses 3 or 4 standard responses to any thread which::

    * Never relates to or is shoehorned into the thread
    * Is grounded in long since past tense
    * Is designed to derail the thread
    * Worships former prime miniature John Howard, in a creepy way
    * Calls everyone he don’t agree with a Leftie.
    * Blames Labor for everything
    * Generalises and insults people
    * Only frequents blogs he is not welcome with inane attempts to derail

    Its pretty easy to work out: When he resorts to calling Labor voters “immoral” or anyone a “leftie” he has nothing and has been beaten and has nothing.

    You will notice he never sticks up for Abbott in present tense. He is basically an infantile intellect who is highly predictable. He is moderated over at AIMN because he derails threads off topic, like ElGordo (I suspect they are one and the same). I would urge Reb to do the same. He belongs in the spam filter as he never brings anything of value to the table.

  46. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 9:00 am

    From Monday changes to the Medicare rebate will see people pay $20 more for some visits to the doctor.

    The rebate on a GP visit of less than 10 minutes will be cut from $37.05 to $16.95.

    GPs say they will not be able to absorb this shortfall and will have to pass it onto patients.

    Dr Carl Grace runs two large bulk billing practices in regional Victoria.

    He said he would have no choice but to start charging patients a fee, a move which he said would increase the pressure on overcrowded hospital emergency departments.

    “My practices in Geelong and Ballarat are probably bigger than most practices out in the suburbs,” he said.

    “[They are] incredibly expensive to run because we’re right in the middle of the city opposite the hospital.

    “And to reduce me from $37 to $16.95 … of course I’ll go broke.

    “I wouldn’t be able to pay for the surgery, I’d have to stop bulk billing. It will mean the end of bulk billing.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-13/governments-medicare-rebates-will-put-an-end-to-bulk-billing/6014662

    Ideological madness

  47. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 9:03 am

    Someone else who doesn’t like Ideological madness

    The government’s plan to deregulate universities is “a crime” and the move for co-payments for medical services is “absurd” in the view of visiting Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/nobel-prizewinning-economist-joseph-stiglitz-says-abbott-government-budget-changes-are-a-crime-20140702-3b8vb.html

  48. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 9:30 am

    Yeah the word says is missing from that sentence

    Cheers Ricky. It makes sense now 😉

  49. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 9:30 am

    I get the feeling susan ley has been dropped right in it

    https://mobile.twitter.com/craigjack36/status/554888647082655744/photo/1

  50. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 10:14 am

    Too funny

    TomR says the Coalition destroyed the car manufacturing industry.

    I reply by saying this is not true and i am called a troll derailing the thread.

    Fact is under Labor doing everything TomR said should be done, local car sales crashed to less than 10% of the market.

    And of that 10% how much were fleet sales (taxis, local, state, federal govt)??

    Would not surprise me if private sales were less than 5% of the market but TomR wants to keep giving taxpayer dollars to a dead horse.

  51. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2015 10:16 am

    And still they come …

    “Tony Abbott has cost this industry $2.5 billion and has robbed Australian businesses of their share of international investment which is going offshore,” he said in a statement.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/aust-renewable-investment-at-13-year-low/story-e6frfku9-1227183163548

    Economic managers? Economic morons …

  52. egg permalink
    January 14, 2015 10:19 am

    ‘…like ElGordo (I suspect they are one and the same).’

    I never voted for Howard, so I couldn’t be Neil.

  53. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 14, 2015 10:21 am

    He is moderated over at AIMN because he derails threads off topic the blog owner has a history of unreasonable and arbitrary action, and far from promoting open debate, he has banned many people who participate at GT.

    Just to make sure the actual facts are set out correctly.

  54. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 10:35 am

    wants to keep giving taxpayer dollars to a dead horse.

    Sorry, but it wasn’t a “dead horse”, as the company was prepared to continue, and to expand, if they could get through the temporary high dollar and compete against the high tariffs of other countries.

    hockey told them to fuck off. What is a business to do if a grubmint tells it to fuck off?

    Meanwhile, companies that give money to yabot get money from taxpayers.

    What a hypocritical bunch of fuckwits.

    And as we see from TB’s link, they are intent on doing the same to renewable energies

  55. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 10:37 am

    Just to make sure the actual facts are set out correctly.

    ROFL

    Dryomm(phD)Esquire and facts

    ROFL

  56. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 14, 2015 10:39 am

    What? Do you disagree with the facts? (as opposed to your invention?)

    AKMFLSH

  57. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 10:43 am

    TomR

    Deluded as usual. Most probably a traitor to Australia as well.

    But it is a problem. Back in the 1970’s we used to make everything. Now it is all gone.

    I am old enough to remember the television repair man. If your TV broke down you got the TV repair man to come to your house and change the picture tube or whatever.

    Now if the TV brakes down you throw it out and buy a new television.

    WE lost most of our manufacturing industry under Hawke/Keating and Rudd/Gillard.

  58. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 11:46 am

    Now it is all gone.

    No it hasn’t. Although, the libs have been pretty destructive I must admit. As TB pointed out, we had a burgeoning renewables industry. That will now most probably die, along with the automotive industries the libs killed off. Will the subs and destroyers be next?

    As for tele’s etc, that is a trend with everything, throw ’em away. It is an unfortunate and wasteful byproduct of alleged “progress”

    We still have a white-goods industry, which seems to have found its niche (like the car industry did)

    They don’t sell as much locally as they used to, but it is an international market now, which is why your 10% figure is so irrelevant in today’s market. Holdens had a niche, which the GFC put a stop to for the short term, but, given time, and a lower dollar, it would have returned.

    Trying to blame Holden leaving on Labor is the height of stupidity, considering it was hockey who stood in parliament and told them to fuck off. If it had it been a Labor Government, they would not have left.

  59. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 12:31 pm

    “Although, the libs have been pretty destructive I must admit”

    Any facts or is that your own personal belief??

    Labor has been in power for 19 years since 1980. It was during those 19 years that we lost most of our manufacturing industry.

    TomR do you care about Australia or are you just a fundamentalist deadbeat who only cares about stuffing your immoral beliefs down every bodies throat??

  60. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2015 12:40 pm

    … we lost most of our manufacturing industry

    Apart from the Button Plan endorsed and continued by the LNP … could you enlighten us on that statement above?

    What part of manufacturing (other than automotive) was “lost” under the ALP?

    Or is this another “I Believe” moment of BS?

  61. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2015 12:41 pm

    … down every bodies throat??

    Surprised you didn’t pick, Kneel up on that ToM?

    … everybody’s …

  62. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 12:47 pm

    The tarrifs were dropped under Hawke/Keating.

    OK it was what i think. But i am old enough to remember when we used to make everything in this country and now it is all gone.

    And Labor was in power when most of this happened.

    In 2007 25% of cars were locally made. Under Rudd/Gillard this dropped to less than 10%.

    Subsidies produced cars that nobody wanted to buy.

  63. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 12:53 pm

    from today’s Hersld Sun …

    I think hey call that putting lipstick on pig tosy 😉

    government incentives are no way to form a business

    How much did GM just get from Obama and bush? What a hypocritical fuckwit. Or is it just he herald massaging facts in their usual manner?

  64. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 12:56 pm

    The U.S. is not the only country contemplating auto and other subsidies as a way of confronting the global recession. The Europeans are drafting an auto subsidies plan now. Canada and China are considering assisting their automakers. If the U.S. leads the way, others may soon follow with more subsidies–for autos and other distressed industries.

    http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/19/trade-tariffs-autos-oped-cx_jb_1219bacchus.html

    And our grubmint removed everything. Chicken Littles

  65. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 1:10 pm

    TomR

    I don’t think the govt removed anything. What happened is that Ford left under Labor and then the auto manufacturers went back and wanted even more money. They were always going to get subsides that Labor wanted.

    If under Labor local car sales went from 25% to say 70% you may have a point.

    Under Rudd/Gillard local car sales went from 25% to 10%.

    Do you have a reference where the Coalition removed everything??

  66. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 14, 2015 1:33 pm

    TB, surprising as it may seem, I’m a little selective about the comments I read.

  67. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 1:44 pm

    They were always going to get subsides that Labor wanted.

    Bullshit, hockey made it clear that the inanely title “age of entitlement” was over. Unless you sponsored yabot that is

    Whether you believe in subsidising the industry or not, Holden is leaving for one incontrovertible reason: the federal government was no longer prepared to pay the subsidies required.

    http://www.afr.com/p/national/government_treatment_of_holden_was_QwElLu2O3lse6cNIradzzI

  68. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 1:45 pm

    I’m a little selective about the comments I read.

    A shame the same can’t be said about what you post 😉

  69. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 2:02 pm

    “Bullshit, hockey made it clear that the inanely title “age of entitlement” was over.

    My understanding is that the Coalition was always going to give what was promised. What happened is that Ford left making it almost impossible for Holden to stay. So Holden went back and asked for even more money which Labor was willing to give but the Coalition was not.

    This from your link

    In the unlikely event that Labor won the election, Holden would have stayed. Labor was promising $1.5 billion in industry assistance between now and 2015 and $300 million a year after that.

    The Coalition said only that it would strip $500 million from that pre-2015 funding and it had a nebulous commitment to $200 million a year for five years between 2015-2020.

    Coorey is a Labor support and can not be trusted to tell the truth but i believe this

    “The Coalition said only that it would strip $500 million from that pre-2015 funding

    This was the extra funding that Holden wanted because Ford left

    “the federal government was no longer prepared to pay the subsidies required
    .”

    ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But Holden was going to get the subsides that Labor promised but because Ford left they wanted even more.

    Hockey told them to get stuffed. What was promised by Labor was enough.

  70. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 2:16 pm

    Your memory of events that have been posted here repeatedly is appalling nil.

    ……. and it had a nebulous commitment to $200 million a year for five years between 2015-2020. for the part of the quote you left out.

    hockeys behavior in parliament showed that “nebulous ” was far too generous a term. He made it clear, the “age of entitlement” was over.

  71. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 2:54 pm

    TomR

    As a human being you should try and tell the truth.

    My understanding is that Holden was always going to get the money promised. It was a signed document by the Australian govt (under Gillard).

    What happened is that Ford left making it even more difficult so Holden went back and asked for $500M/year more.

    Hockey told them to get stuffed.

  72. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 3:20 pm

    My understanding is that Holden was always going to get the money promised. … unless a liberal grubmint came in .. you forgot to add 😉

  73. egg permalink
    January 14, 2015 3:36 pm

    Anyway it was the right decision, the plant could morph into rail manufacturing.

  74. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 4:03 pm

    TomR

    You should apologise for that statement.

    You are boring me and most probably everybody else.

    Gillard signed a document with Holden. It is unlikely that Hockey could break that document.

    What happened is that when Ford left (under Labor) Holden went back and asked for $500M/year more.

    Labor agreed. Hockey told them to get stuffed.

    Telling falsehoods is not going to help anybody.

  75. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 4:27 pm

    Have a read of this

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/ongoing-financial-support-for-car-industry-not-warranted-productivity-commission-report-20140131-31rq2.html

    In a strongly worded report, the Productivity Commission stated that ”current government funding should be reassessed to determine when subsidies should end” and assistance for Toyota ”should cease in 2020, and not be extended or replaced with other specific assistance”.

    It sends a clear message that, when the Automotive Transformation Scheme ends in 2020, there should be no more help for car makers or parts suppliers.”

    So government funding is continuing until 2020 unlike what TomR says. It is just not at the levels Holden wanted.

  76. egg permalink
    January 14, 2015 4:42 pm

    The plant could be altered to manufacture a 3000 kph transport system.

    http://www.australiannationalreview.com/china-testing-3000kmh-super-maglev-prototype/

  77. January 14, 2015 6:32 pm

    “I think hey call that putting lipstick on pig tosy ;)”

    You dismiss what the global head of GM had to say on the topic, based on which newspaper reported his comments.. That only makes you look foolish. (And rusted-on, which you freely admit.)

  78. January 14, 2015 9:13 pm

    You should apologise for that statement.
    You are boring me and most probably everybody else.

    Please stop the irony is burning

  79. January 14, 2015 9:20 pm

    Move the fuck on….

    Get over it

    You are boring us to death

  80. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 14, 2015 9:21 pm

    Re: hobbies

    I used to collect old globes, atlases and maps. I’ve given up globes, they are horribly expensive these days.

    Old atlases are interesting because they capture the political and social systems of the time. The British Empire all coloured pink, population data segregated by race and colour. I have a small collection of 1930 German atlases that show the expansionist greater Germany, coloured with the German speaking world.

    I have a few dating from the early 1800s – the maps are hand coloured (water colour), they predate coloured printing. A few maps I like predate Bass and Flinders sailing through Bass Strait, Tasmania still connected to the mainland.

    Alaska still part of Russia, most of Greece under Turkish rule, the expanse of the Ottoman Empire. Having those historical records of the world at that time is quite interesting.

    I’ve still got a bit of a collection! But it’s a while since I’ve added to it.

  81. Tom R permalink
    January 14, 2015 9:41 pm

    From nils link,

    But vehicles division national secretary Dave Smith said the findings, which would act as cover for the government’s pre-determined decision to cut funding to the sector, were not surprising.

    The grubmint had telegraphed their aim to remove all funding. The “current government funding” was the previous Labor Government funding. This is also telling

    They have a naïve belief about how the auto industry works and they aren’t interested in anyone who has an alternative point of view.”

    naive is putting it nicely. In the report, they adroitly failed to tie together the massive loss of skills and the massive affect that will have on very large industries (mining in particular)

    You dismiss what the global head of GM had to say on the topic

    NO, I see it for what it is, a politician (that’s really what he is at times like that) putting the best face on a decision that the grubmint made for them. After all, he still wants to sell cars here.

  82. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 14, 2015 10:23 pm

    Funding was committed until 2017. I think the scheme was terminated at 2017 because Holden announced it was leaving so no need to fund until 2020.

    http://www.business.gov.au/grants-and-assistance/manufacturing/ats/Pages/default.aspx

    “The Automotive Transformation Scheme (ATS) commenced on 1 January 2011 and will run until 31 December 2017.”

    The big crime is the total waste of money. We could have used that subsidy money to start building rainwater tanks or other useful things.

    Only a fool would support a dying industry. Car manufacturing left for the same reason all our other manufacturing has left.

  83. TB Queensland permalink
    January 14, 2015 11:06 pm

    TB, surprising as it may seem, I’m a little selective about the comments I read.

    Chuckle … 🙂

    Oh, thanks for the compliment! 😉

  84. January 15, 2015 3:02 am

    ””Economic managers? Economic morons””#agree

    #in the long-term long-game, we lose

    ”””Tony Abbott has cost this industry $2.5 billion and has robbed Australian businesses of their share of international investment which is going offshore,” he(#albo) said in a statement.””’

    #mr-rabbit is trashing renews, just as john-w did, particularly with geo-thermal back in his day

    ”””Mr Albanese said the government should immediately recommit to the RET, and recognise the opportunities the renewable energy industry held for the Australian economy.”””’

    #these type of weak statements by teabag-lite should be resisted as they don`t help, teabag-lite should just state plainly that the teabags are in the pocket of big-coal and will continue to bury `renews` for big-coals benefit, but they don`t have the nads.

  85. January 15, 2015 4:21 am

    l see tomR is still trying to superglue the ashes of the `auto` industry back together with some wholesome team-cheering. TomR fails to recognize that corporations are relieved of many tax-burdens because of all the so-called `risk` there is in business, leaving others to carry the can in `subsidising` their tax liability. To then expect the taxpayers that are already `subsidising` biz-tax, to then `subsidise` biz-costs/profits and unwanted-product with a `second` helping of handouts-for-bludgers is quite frankly ridiculous. Corporations should be left to die by their own `free-market`, `only-responsible-to-their-shareholder-profit` sword, which they demand as their corporate `right` the rest of the time. Govt/s should never have allowed themselves to have been `extorted` in the first place.

    (Govt/s should never allow the `too-big-to-fail` situation to arise either, Govt/s are abdicating their responsibility/s to all citizens by allowing failing corporate-crooks wreck `any` nation.)

  86. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 6:25 am

    Funding was committed until 2017

    How many other “commitments” has this grubmint kept?

    They sent the message out clear, the “age of entitlement” was over. They had sent the clear message to Holden, through backgrounding from ministers, the path they wanted Holdens to take, out of the country. They are doing exactly the same with renewables. They haven’t changed the RET at all, but, with the various messages they have sent out about their total commitment to coal and their loathing of anything sustainable, the message is clear. They haven’t had to make any change to the RET to halt any further development of clean technologies in this country. Another potential earner going overseas now.

    btw, how much of that “funding commitment” has been paid out?

    Corporations should be left to die by their own `free-market`

    But what do you do when the market is not “free”? As has been shown repeatedly, Holden were not operating on an level playing field, tariffs and other incentives around the world left them at a huge disadvantage. The only mechanism the Government had left itself to level the playing field was direct subsidies. This made it very easy to highlight just how much help the industry received. Unlike other industries, who, as has been seen, are as heavily, if not more heavily, subsidized than the automotive one was, and without the massive flow on effects car manufacturing brings (brought) to the country.

  87. egg permalink
    January 15, 2015 7:41 am

    ‘Another potential earner going overseas now.’

    The Chinese build them cheaper, which can’t be a bad thing for the average Oz punter keen to buy something completely useless.

  88. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 15, 2015 7:56 am

    Actually it was the Productivity Commission who recommended no more subsidies.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/ongoing-financial-support-for-car-industry-not-warranted-productivity-commission-report-20140131-31rq2.html

    Australia faces the end of an era, with the Productivity Commission recommending the federal government stops providing financial assistance to the embattled local car industry.”

    Funding was guaranteed until 2020. But when Ford left (under Rudd) Holden went back and asked for even more funding. They didn’t get it.

  89. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 7:59 am

    The Chinese build them cheaper

    Of course. But not cheaper often in the long run, as the quality is not there.

    And this “cheapness” is exacerbated by tariffs, “free” trade deals, and their complete abdication of both social and environment best work practices.

    Give me a break. We are selling our future out for people who are prepared to do anything to take it away from us. And this mob is doing it with gusto

  90. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 8:07 am

    Actually it was the Productivity Commission who recommended no more subsidies.

    Yes, the Productivity Commission whose report has been taken apart repeatedly for false assumptions and an obvious pre-determined outcome in mind. They were printing what the grubmint wanted, that much is patently obvious. Purely political reports like that have become the staple, and the blatant manner the grubmint uses them is embarrassing, not just for them, but for the media that laps them up..

  91. January 15, 2015 8:15 am

  92. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 15, 2015 8:18 am

    Well it looks like we have established one thing. Subsidies were not stopped under the Coalition govt as you claimed. Funding was continuing until 2020 under the Automotive Transformation Scheme.

  93. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 8:46 am

    Subsidies were not stopped under the Coalition govt as you claimed.

    Well, it looks like we have established one thing, you haven’t answered this question

    how much of that “funding commitment” has been paid out?

    This grubmint telegraphed their intentions, and blatantly told GMH to fuck off. There was no need for them to cut the commitment, they killed it before any was needed to be formerly cut under them.

  94. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 15, 2015 11:57 am

    Regardless of whether the government (ie us people that pay plenty of tax) should have done more, the people whose livelihoods depended on the vehicle manufacturing didn’t do everything within their own control to save their own jobs.

  95. TB Queensland permalink
    January 15, 2015 12:15 pm

    They had sent the clear message to Holden,

    TR, its GM … Holden has only existed as a badge for many decades.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    the people whose livelihoods depended on the vehicle manufacturing didn’t do everything within their own control to save their own jobs.

    And that’s just a unions BOO! approach … GM STILL don’t build to the same quality as most other marques … GM-H was actually run by MANAGEMENT … they may have survived if they had communicated and involved better … as a consultant to management I’m sure you’re familiar with the Harley Davidson turnaround …

    Anyway this has been thrashed and trashed upside down … it is done and dusted … waste of fkn space and yer just feedin’ the troll …

  96. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 12:23 pm

    Holden has only existed as a badge for many decades.

    pedant alert 😉

    the people whose livelihoods depended on the vehicle manufacturing didn’t do everything within their own control to save their own jobs.

    This after been shown repeatedly how much the workers bent over to save their jobs.

    . yer just feedin’ the troll …

    MUNCH! 🙂

  97. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 15, 2015 3:26 pm

    “This after been shown repeatedly how much the workers bent over to save their jobs.

    Baloney. You are living in leftie laa laa land

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/toyotas-altona-plant-to-start-21day-shutdown-amid-survival-fears-20131217-2zj05.html

    Workers at Toyota’s Altona plant will on Wednesday afternoon down tools for 21 days – the longest holiday shutdown at any of the car maker’s 54 plants across the globe……….Among the demands Toyota had wanted to put to its workforce was reducing the 21-day summer shutdown to 10 days.”

    A 10 day shut down would be more normal.

  98. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 3:54 pm

    Go take a Weenie Ride nil

  99. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 15, 2015 4:00 pm

    I guess facts hurt.

    Toyota workers gave management the two fingered salute.

    I remember reading somewhere that Toyota management knew the case was lost when there was a public holiday on a Thursday and 30% of the workforce failed to show up on the working Friday.

    TomR and TB and telling falsehoods when they say workers bent over backwards to save their jobs.

    Looks like they spent most of their time picking their noses and scratching their bums.

    Well goodbye car manufacturing in Australia

  100. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 4:31 pm

    I guess facts hurt.

    It’s you ignoring them nil, and trying to portray everything as workers sabotaging. In Toyotas case, that was their first volley in getting new (poorer) conditions, and trying to use the mess the grubmint had created as cover.

    We’ve been over this so many times, but, just like a global warming denier, you keep bringing the same tired old shit up.

    So go and take yourself a Weenie Ride, and see if that forces anything useful into your brain.

  101. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 15, 2015 4:35 pm

    I guess facts hurt

  102. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 4:40 pm

    I guess facts hurt

    repeating your inanities doesn’t make them any more accurate nil.

    Toyota workers were negotiating worse conditions for themselves. The fact that they didn’t take Toyota’s first round of bullshit doesn’t mean that they were not prepared to take worse conditions. Grow a brain.

    The company was last week prevented by a Federal Court judgment from putting 27 cost-cutting measures to a vote of staff. The company will decide whether to appeal that decision by Thursday.

    Among the demands Toyota had wanted to put to its workforce was reducing the 21-day summer shutdown to 10 days.

    For your “fact file” 😉

  103. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 15, 2015 4:44 pm

    Exactly the workers did nothing to save their jobs.

    They thought the subsidies would never end so they could pick their noses, scratch their bums and bludge and the subsidies would always be there

  104. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 5:20 pm

    Exactly the workers did nothing to save their jobs.

    Really, that’s what you take from that 😯

    Actually, I’m not surprised

  105. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 15, 2015 5:31 pm

    Get stuffed.

    30% of the Toyota workforce did not turn up the day after a public holiday.

    It was your stupid fundamentalist beliefs that destroyed the car industry.

    Lazy bludgers who did nothing but pick their noses all day thinking the subsidies would never end.

    They were so “successful” under Rudd/Gillard that local manufacture fell from 25% to 10%.

    The more money Labor gave the car industry the more Australians bought foreign cars.

  106. January 15, 2015 5:32 pm

    ”””””the people whose livelihoods depended on the vehicle manufacturing didn’t do everything within their own control to save their own jobs.”””’

    #correct, negligent boardroom/s `may` have saved their `out-post`jobs had they not been focused on `extorting` Govt/s for welfare, but instead were focused on delivering `product` the consumer wanted, seems they took a lot of shareholder money on false pretenses.

  107. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 5:48 pm

    wow, way to add to the stupid teabagz

    Holden had their niche. large six cylinders, which WERE in demand overseas, mainly from law enforcement, up until the GFC

    They had moved to smaller cars (the Cruze), but the rug was pulled out just as conditions improved for them.
    And nil, we’ve been over the productivity of automotive workers, who far outstrip most other occupations in the country.

    You know, those “facts” you like to ignore 😉

  108. January 15, 2015 7:08 pm

    l`m just glad you aren`t mindlessly team-cheering 🙂

  109. Tom R permalink
    January 15, 2015 7:40 pm

    l`m just glad you aren`t mindlessly team-cheering

    Almost as mindlessly as you are cheering your anarchy 😉

  110. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 15, 2015 8:46 pm

    ” but the rug was pulled out just as conditions improved for them.”

    As a human being you should try and tell the truth. No rug was pulled out.

    Funding was guaranteed until 2020.

    But the relation was inverse. When the govt gave money Australians stopped buying Australian and purchased foreign.

  111. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 15, 2015 9:18 pm

  112. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 15, 2015 9:43 pm

    AO

    What is your point?

  113. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 15, 2015 10:43 pm

    try to work it out neil, I know it’s hard for you, perhaps you should try to thinka bit rather than point score, snipe and attack.

  114. egg permalink
    January 16, 2015 7:18 am

    ‘What is your point?’

    The whole planet is in a deflationary spiral and Sharia Banking should soon be common place.

  115. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 8:18 am

    Funding was guaranteed until 2020.

    A guarantee from this grubmint is like a promise from car salesman. Just recall the ABC, medicare, education “guarantee’s”. The list of failure to maintain a guarantee is both long and depressing. Manufacturing is just another in a long line of them. Both hockey and yabot had telegraphed their desire not to support anyone (unless you had sponsored them it seems). hockey stood in parliament and basically told them to fuck off. You still haven’t answered my question. How much of this funding has this grubmint dished out?

  116. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 8:46 am

    mining subsidy good – manufacturing subsidy bad

    Queensland taxpayers have subsidised the Abbot Point coal port expansion to the tune of almost $2bn with it expected to cost hundreds of millions of dollars more, according to a paper released by an independent policy thinktank.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jan/15/queensland-taxpayers-subsidised-abbot-point-coal-port-expansion-by-up-to-2bn

  117. January 16, 2015 8:52 am

    “”The Swiss National Bank just cut its official interest rates to minus 0.75%””

    Does that mean if you have a mortgage you’ll actually receive a dividend?

  118. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 8:58 am

    My head just melted thanks reb.

    I’m moving to Switzerland to get a loan 🙂

    Might as well make it a coupla mill so I can live off the interest 🙂

  119. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2015 9:30 am

  120. January 16, 2015 9:40 am

    From the files of “”you have to be shitting me…..””

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-16/proposal-to-sing-national-anthem-in-unison-on-australia-day/6020480

  121. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2015 9:41 am

    Those conservative nut jobs should not be let near government!

    http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-16/proposal-to-sing-national-anthem-in-unison-on-australia-day/6020480

  122. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2015 9:42 am

    Haha snap reb!
    Both outraged at same time 🙂

  123. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 9:50 am

    Both outraged at same time

    Heathens!!

    I reckon it could take off 🙂

  124. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 10:06 am

    Here is a brilliant take down of the oz and it’s political attacks for the coalition on anyone who they deem their ‘enemy’.

    Professor Gillian Triggs, president of the Australian Human Rights Commission, is the latest victim of a heavy-handed campaign by the Australian newspaper.

    ……….

    Manning Clark, Julia Gillard, Simon Overland, Christine Milne, virtually anyone with progressive ideas slightly to the left of the soup spoon, are among the cohort who have been targets of the paper.

    …………

    There are ulterior factors in the wings. Her disturbing report on children in immigration detention is due to be released, which makes her vulnerable as a subject of political assault from a media organisation largely dedicated to fearless cheerleading for the Coalition government.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/15/gillian-triggs-the-australians-latest-victim

    And for those who were happily parroting the ozs attack on Griggs recently, a taste of what more evidence is like.

    Triggs examined the case and found that his detention is arbitrary under the law. He is being held without charge, potentially indefinitely, while the government has failed to determine other forms of less restrictive detention or take action to find a third country of resettlement.

    What the president of the commission has recommend to the attorney general, George Brandis, is that the the complainant be released from Villawood and some other form of community detention be found for him.

    Contrary to a belief that finds its way into the media, she had not recommended that he be sent into the community at large.

    The most telling line in this for me was this one, particularly in light of the “I am Charlie” fervour sweeping the world at the moment.

    “human rights apply to everyone – to people convicted of crimes and to those with no criminal record.”

  125. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 16, 2015 10:26 am

    Gillian Triggs is a partisan deadbeat who said nothing when Labor was locking up record numbers of people but awakes from her slumber when the Coalition won the election.

    I think The OZ is being too kind to Triggs.

    Triggs is a nasty person like most ALP supporters.

  126. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 10:30 am

    who said nothing when Labor was locking up record numbers of people

    Actually, you again refuse to look to facts.

    Triggs was very active back then, but, since the Labor Government actually gave her access to the various sites, she did not need to launch an inquiry as she was forced to do under this grubmint.

    If this lot had allowed her access, then perhaps the path she took would not have been required

    #justsayin 😉

  127. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2015 10:32 am

    “…Triggs is a nasty person like most ALP supporters…”

    🙄 *fuckedinhead*

  128. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 16, 2015 10:38 am

    The facts are Triggs did nothing when the ALP was locking up more people than any govt in Australian history.

    She did not care.

    Now it is a different matter with the Coalition handed the mess.

    She awakes from her coffin and starts to play politics.

    A gross and immoral human being is Triggs. She is perfectly suited to the ALP.

    I know she votes Labor because she is a pig as a human being.

  129. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 10:47 am

    I know she votes Labor because she is a pig as a human being.

    #fuckedinhead

    so eloquently put AO 🙂

  130. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 16, 2015 11:57 am

    Yep. Triggs is a pig..

    Therefore she votes LABOR.

  131. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2015 12:21 pm

    And still they come … deeper and deeper into the mire created by the LNP …

    If only they had kept there sticky fingers and ancient ideology out of the pie … and wanted to share …

    New Zealand now outranks Australia in internet speed because they “stuck to fibre-to-the-premise”.

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/current-nbn-plans-have-pushed-us-behind-the-rest-of-the-worlds-internet-limiting-the-streaming-revolution/story-fnjwncel-1227186853810

    Adults in charge? More like Kindy Kids in Ye Olde Kandy Shoppe ..

  132. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2015 12:22 pm

    oops … “their …”

    Is ToM here? 😯

  133. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2015 12:26 pm

    vulnerable as a subject of political assault from a media organisation largely dedicated to fearless cheerleading for the Coalition government.

    Should read …

    … vulnerable as a subject of political assault from a media organisation largely dedicated to fearless cheerleading for the Catholic Coalition government.

    Don’t forget Rupert Madman gloating over The Abbott being a catlik PM in – so many years – (WGAF how long it was) …

  134. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 16, 2015 12:36 pm

    And what did Conroy do in 6 years.

    All Labor has to do to make you excited is to promise something.

    Nothing happened from 2007-2013. In fact we went backward thanks to your vote.

  135. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2015 12:41 pm

    Nothing happened from 2007-2013. In fact we went backward thanks to your vote.

    You obviously have no knowledge of major project development … and once again it is a useless waste of time discussing anything with you …

    I do confess to playing “troll” and your retort was pretty much what I expected …

    My guess is you wouldn’t know a terabyte from a megabit or megabyte … ignorance is writ large hereabouts …

  136. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 12:46 pm

    You obviously have no knowledge of major project development

    Add it to list of nils ignorance 🙂

    Yes, in 6 years, Labor unpicked the Telstra mess, and implemented a major overhaul of the communications network, being fought and stymied every step of the way by the Usual Suspects.

    If you think Labor failed on the NBN, check the technology sites, who are now all lamenting its loss.

  137. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 16, 2015 12:57 pm

    Well this is what Labor PROMISED in 2007

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/wireless–broadband/labors-47-billion-broadband-plan/2007/03/21/1174153131586.html

    Federal Labor has unveiled plans to raid the Future Fund to build a $4.7 billion national high-speed broadband network………………..Labor proposes to invest up to $4.7 billion – including the existing $2 billion communications fund – in a partnership with the private sector to build the network over the next five years.

    FIVE YEARS??

    Nothing happened in 5 years but Labor said it would be finished in 5 years.

    Why should i believe anything that Labor says?

    “and once again it is a useless waste of time discussing anything with you … “

    But you did it anyway

  138. January 16, 2015 1:04 pm

    So Nils,

    Do you support or not support the Abbott Govt’s GP co-payment proposal?

    Or should I ask you again tomorrow for a different answer?

  139. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 16, 2015 1:22 pm

    Don’t know.

    The only reason for the GP co-payment is that Labor trashed the budget.

    If the budget wasn’t trashed it would not be an issue.

  140. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 1:46 pm

    Why should i believe anything that Labor says?

    because they said “proposes” nil

    Once they got in and found out just how screwed and belligerent telstra were, they offered up a new plan. Which they were subsequently elected on.

  141. January 16, 2015 1:50 pm

    Reb why ask? that answer is quite self explanatory… he abdicates himself from any semblance of position, moral or otherwise by taking the predictable partisan anti Labor boring dribble.

    Quite simply the “don’t know ” answer indicates his profound stupidity.. he is atypically the personification of the “brainwashed by propaganda” anti intellectual.

    Affordable healthcare is an institution that differentiates us a progressive democracy. Any attempt to dismantle and de-democratise medicare is heavily steeped in agenda laden ideology

    Lobbyists run the LNP and it is obvious that they want to dismantle medicare to make more cash. The “budget is trashed” meme has been refuted and exposed for what it is in spades, social engineering wrapped in bogus economics delivered with a dose of fear and insecurity.

    This rhetorical dross is rife for lazy thinkers like NIL who would cut and paste the anti everything rather than use the potato peelings he has for a brain.

  142. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 1:51 pm

    If the budget wasn’t trashed it would not be an issue.

    So, you agree, it’s not an issue ❓

    But evidence contradicts this argument.

    http://theconversation.com/australias-unsustainable-health-spending-is-a-myth-26393

  143. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2015 2:21 pm

    “…Yes, in 6 years, Labor unpicked the Telstra mess, and implemented a major overhaul of the communications network,…”

    They would have got much more done if it wasn’t for a disgustingly obstructionist opposition, opposing for the sake of it, not concerned with what is best for the nation and the population. We could have had a world class NBN and now we’ve got a rubbish system
    that doesn’t meet our needs. Once the libs got their hands on any policy they were either stopped or stripped of all funding and innovation.
    What a hopeless mess!
    But…We can find money to give to the wealthy rent seekers!

  144. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 16, 2015 2:30 pm

    “They would have got much more done if it wasn’t for a disgustingly obstructionist opposition”

    Even more lies. Labor could get whatever it wanted through the House of Reps and the Senate

  145. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2015 2:51 pm

    If that were true neil, why haven’t we got our NBN (FTTH)? Why do we have the bastardised lib version that needs an upgrade before it’s even commenced?

  146. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 16, 2015 3:01 pm

    Don’t know. You have to ask Conroy.

    The Coalition did not have the numbers to stop any ALP/Greens legislation.

    Actually i do know. Labors NBN was pie in the sky stuff.

    Labor gets people excited through great ideas but they usually don’t work.

  147. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2015 3:12 pm

    No but they did intend to destroy it if they came to government and that is exactly what has happened. The country has gone backwards since the libs got in.

  148. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2015 3:17 pm

    I read today that we’ve finally made it!
    We’ve got the highest private debt out of all the OECD countries.
    Typical! libs policies will always drive up personal debt.

  149. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2015 3:25 pm

    Labor gets people excited through great ideas but they usually don’t work.

    They would have but now the Kindy Kids are in town all we’ll get is a fkn great gobstopper … where is Hocky anyway?

    Robber Barons at play!

  150. Tom R permalink
    January 16, 2015 3:26 pm

    Labor could get whatever it wanted through the House of Reps and the Senate

    :facepalm:

    We’ve got the highest private debt out of all the OECD countries.

    :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

  151. egg permalink
    January 16, 2015 4:29 pm

    ‘We’ve got the highest private debt out of all the OECD countries.’

    Perhaps this has something to do with the real estate boom in Sydney and Melbourne.

  152. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 16, 2015 4:59 pm

    Apparently at risk of a financial crisis.
    Real estate boom?
    That’s what taxpayer funded easy money does. Creates negatively geared greed.

  153. egg permalink
    January 16, 2015 6:37 pm

    Since 1990 Australia’s population has increased by 38% and we know where they settled, so when demand for property outstrips supply we have inflation.

    In the Sydney basin there hasn’t been a bust in living memory and we shouldn’t expect one now, still, a very fast train under the Blueys would alleviate the pressure.

    Low interest rates and mass immigration are fueling the boom.

  154. TB Queensland permalink
    January 16, 2015 7:01 pm

    That’s what taxpayer funded easy money does. Creates negatively geared greed.

    And then collapses around EVERYONE else’s ears … so who pays twice … the taxpayer … gawd give me strength …

    The iggorance is blinding!

    You really, really prattle, egg … if you had a brain it would be fried …

  155. January 16, 2015 11:13 pm

    ””’Almost as mindlessly as you are cheering your anarchy””’

    #oh TomR, l`m not `mindlessly` anything, and the `anarchy` is not mine either. l merely observe the teabag-kaos being created, and point-out most of it has failed before, or will fail. Just because l don`t automatically slot-in with the water-melon team-cheerers doesn`t make it my kaos/`anarchy` either.

    #Take for example, `our` resident imbeciles cheering the canberra imbeciles for trashing medicare a little bit more. They will use all kinds of `costs` as the excuse to wreck it, and the teabags will also ignore all the `costs` of NOT wrecking it.

  156. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 17, 2015 9:46 am

    …The only reason for the GP co-payment is that Labor trashed the budget.
    If the budget wasn’t trashed it would not be an issue…

    Very wrong

    Perhaps you’d better take your head out of your arse and check out some history, try right back to the beginning of the libs and medicare.

  157. egg permalink
    January 17, 2015 11:08 am

    ‘Please note that that the gap between projected Medicare revenue and Medicare expenditure for 16-17 is about $14 billion but this is about the costs of delivering health services to the aged, the young and those on welfare.

    ‘Like education, there is a reasonable argument that health is not based on user pays and if there were to be a choice between the two there is also a reasonable argument that taxpayers’ subsidised health care should take priority to taxpayers’ subsidised education.

    ‘So in summary the Government should be levying a Medicare surcharge of at least 2% on company earnings rather than reducing company tax by 1.5% this July. Its all about our notion of fairness and fair go.

    ‘Companies such as BHP and Rio are almost 75% foreign owned and over 70% of our resource profits go overseas so it would be fair, IMO, to impose a social tax on foreigners to cover our shortfalls health care and make a token contribution to education because multinationals benefit from a healthy-well educated workforce.’

    Hot Copper

  158. TB Queensland permalink
    January 17, 2015 1:27 pm

    LOL! Religious gullibility has no bounds …

    http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/book-claiming-meeting-with-jesus-withdrawn/story-e6frfkui-1227187887444

    Here’s the big clue – the kid’s name is Malarkey …

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malarkey

  159. January 17, 2015 2:11 pm

    Too much existential point illustration?
    Fair enuff
    Maybe Nils is actually a pie in the sky? more dingleberry than humble

  160. January 17, 2015 6:17 pm

    See if this works here.

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