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Indonesia about to Commit State Sanctioned Murder against two Aussies

January 29, 2015

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The Indonesian government is ready to execute two Australian citizens convicted of drug smuggling a decade ago. A candlelit vigil is currently underway in centres around Australia in support of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, however division remains whether the pair should be spared or face the consequences of their actions.

The following is an extract from an article by Garry Linnell recently published on the Sydney Morning Herald…

At some point in the next few weeks, Sukumaran and Chan will be taken out at dawn on a small Indonesian island, blindfolded and shot through the heart by a firing squad for their role in an ill-conceived and stupidly executed plot to import eight kilograms of heroin into Australia.

Who cannot empathise with the families of both men? Who wouldn’t be prepared to light a candle for all the suffering they have endured, and will continue to endure in the months and years to come? A mother is about to lose a son, brothers and sisters a loved sibling. They are entitled to mourn their loss for the rest of their lives. Many will never get over it.

[However] Sukumaran and Chan knew the penalty if they were caught. You cannot arrive anywhere in Indonesia without signs explicitly stating the consequences of importing and exporting drugs on Indonesian soil. It is Indonesian law.

You can argue that being young and stupid shouldn’t be cause for the death penalty. You can launch a sound and persuasive attack questioning the place of capital punishment in a modern civilised society. But the Bali nine controversy is equally about sovereign rights and the penalties imposed on those who decide to flout them.

If that eight kilograms of heroin had made it back to Australia, had been cut and filtered before being distributed on the streets of Sydney’s suburbs, it would have fetched millions of dollars for the drug ring’s architects.

Hundreds, if not thousands, of lives would have been affected.

Had they got away with it, would Sukumaran and Chan have gone on to lead simple lives filled with redemption and remorse? Would Sukumaran have discovered a latent gift for painting and devoted the rest of his life to teaching others to express themselves on a blank canvas?

Would Chan have surrendered his fortune, found God and spent the rest of his days selflessly extolling the Lord’s word and the benefits of a saintly existence?

Or would they, like so many others, have bought themselves a flashy home, driven a flashy car, expunged from their minds the damage their deeds may have caused so many others and gone on to reap the benefits and slap each on the back, still not quite believing they got away with such a ridiculous get-rich-quick scheme?

Light a candle for their families, by all means. Light a candle for the loss of two human lives that could have ended so differently.

But don’t light a candle for Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan simply because they are about to be put to death by a sovereign nation following its law.

They took their chances and they lost.

Thoughts….?

 

 

 

 

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123 Comments leave one →
  1. TB Queensland permalink
    January 29, 2015 7:17 pm

    They took their chances and they lost.

    RIP

  2. January 29, 2015 7:17 pm

    Who hasn’t done something stupid in their twenties….??

  3. TB Queensland permalink
    January 29, 2015 7:22 pm

    Me … I think … oh, yes … I was 21 … but what a wonderful stupidity … she’s has three children of her own now … two of ’em in their twenties … 😉

    At 22 I was playing soldiers in the bush and fixing armoured vehicles … not my mistake some fuckwit in the grand ol’ USA and the Liberal Party …

  4. January 29, 2015 7:28 pm

    The punishment is horribly disproportionate for the crime…but, the Indonesians make no secret of their disproportionate punishments when ‘we’ enter their country.

    I am opposed to capital punishment, but I have no more sympathy for Australians about to be executed abroad than for those native Indonesians who’ve already been executed for same.
    It’s extremely arrogant to assume that our laws should apply in their country, imo.

    Another symptom of nationalistic hypocrisy.

    Unfortunately, they will be murdered by a foreign State. they probably shouldn’t have attempted to traffic heroin there.

  5. Desiree Walsh permalink
    January 29, 2015 7:40 pm

    In regard to the SMH article. It is not that simple, this case is political – and that is on top of the political punishment that is capital. This was not an act based on sovereignty, Australia interfered long before the crime even committed.

    Yes drugs are bad, yes drugs threaten the health, welfare and safety of all in a society. Life for a life? Evidence that. the life. Those drugs did not even hit the streets – so good luck with that.

    There is just two lives being taken. Both by a State, aided by another State – where is the sovereignty? But even more importantly, where is compassion?

    I will light a candle, I will light a candle for compassion lost.

    Desiree Walsh
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  6. TB Queensland permalink
    January 29, 2015 7:44 pm

    I will light a candle, I will light a candle for compassion lost.

    Then light another for the children saved …

  7. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 29, 2015 7:51 pm

    The dreadful tragedy is that Scott Rush’s father knew of his son’s planned involvement and sought the assistance of the Australian Federal Police to disrupt the plan. The AFP simply informed the Indonesian police and here we are with 2 young men about to be shot and others locked up for decades.

    The AFP should be condemned for this action, when it has such deadly consequences. They should have arrested the group on their return to Australia.

    Australian Federal Police (AFP) were contacted, on behalf of Rush senior, prior to Rush’s departure from Australia and before the commission of the offence. Rush senior feared that his son was travelling to Bali and would commit a drug-related crime.[12] Rush senior claims then to have received assurances from the AFP that they would tell his son he was under surveillance to dissuade him from going through with the crime before the group’s departure from Indonesia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Rush

  8. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 29, 2015 7:52 pm

    The quote from wikipedia starts here – Australian Federal Police (AFP) were contacted, on behalf of Rush senior

  9. January 29, 2015 7:58 pm

    I’m pro-drug legalisation and anti-capital punishment. I’m also anti-barbaric muslim states murdering Australian citizens.

    Can you tell where I stand on this topic?

  10. TB Queensland permalink
    January 29, 2015 7:59 pm

    Did Rush Sr talk to his son?

  11. January 29, 2015 7:59 pm

    “The dreadful tragedy is that Scott Rush’s father knew of his son’s planned involvement and sought the assistance of the Australian Federal Police to disrupt the plan. The AFP simply informed the Indonesian police and here we are with 2 young men about to be shot and others locked up for decades.

    The AFP should be condemned for this action, when it has such deadly consequences. They should have arrested the group on their return to Australia.”

    Agreed!!!

  12. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 29, 2015 8:03 pm

    “I think”

    Do You??

  13. January 29, 2015 8:04 pm

    “”Can you tell where I stand on this topic?””

    Oh, you’re just anti and pro everything all at the same time ToSY. That’s why we love you.

    (Unlike egg, who’s just a cunt.)

  14. January 29, 2015 8:05 pm

    “I have no more sympathy for Australians about to be executed abroad than for those native Indonesians who’ve already been executed for same”

    I do.

  15. January 29, 2015 8:05 pm

    I will light a candle cos it’s actually pretty fkn cold in Melbourne tonite.

  16. January 29, 2015 8:06 pm

    “I do.”

    And why is this so, pray tell…..??

  17. Neil of Sydney permalink
    January 29, 2015 8:07 pm

    Wow the bit about Kevin Andrews has been deleted so my post makes no sense. Like most people would say anyway.

    Neil of Sydney
    President of the Bring Back Egg Comittee

  18. January 29, 2015 8:07 pm

    The death penalty is hardly unique to muslim states.

    As I said, I’m also anti capital punishment.

    As for ‘where’s the compassion?!’, well it could be observed that such compassions seem to be reserved for our own citizens. Fuck that.

  19. January 29, 2015 8:08 pm

    “I do.”

    More fool you.

  20. January 29, 2015 8:09 pm

    “Neil of Sydney
    President of the Bring Back Egg Committee”

    Blatant trolling.

  21. TB Queensland permalink
    January 29, 2015 8:10 pm

    ToSY, yes …

    I have nephew who won $16,000 on the Casket (Lotto) … his mother withdrew it for him and gave it to him … she regretted it till the day she died … you can guess why …

    I’m anti-drug dealers, runners, smugglers, users and any other person who attempts to pollute any of my family … or society in general …

    I have little sympathy for people who had already seen what happens in Indonesia and, as sreb, points out, the signage is pretty explicit in Indonesia and there had been plenty of media stories before (just before) they attempted to breach the law there …

    Are you also pro-legalisation of drug users driving, mugging innocent people, breaking into homes and generally costing society in so many ways …

    As a father/grandfather I can easily empathise with the families … but sometimes you have to live – or die – because of your own actions …

  22. January 29, 2015 8:12 pm

    In many ways, I see it as teasing a nasty dog & then squealing when it runs you down and gnaws on your throat.

    Australian lives are worth no more than any other human life.

  23. January 29, 2015 8:16 pm

    “And why is this so, pray tell…..??”

    It’s something to do with the fact that the Bali Nine were trying to smuggle drugs from Indonesia to Australia, not the other way round. It wasn’t a case of evil westerners corrupting pure local citizens with their seductive, pleasure-giving substances.

  24. January 29, 2015 8:19 pm

    “… but sometimes you have to live – or die – because of your own actions …”

    Sad, but true.

  25. January 29, 2015 8:22 pm

    Isn’t the US the biggest capital punishment production line on Earth? (pre-ISIS, maybe) at the moment.

    Not a muslim state. Still barbaric.

  26. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 29, 2015 8:24 pm

    The AFP should be condemned for this action, when it has such deadly consequences. They should have arrested the group on their return to Australia.

    I thinks so too toM. The AFP/keelty should never have left it to the indonesians knowing that they have the death penalty in indonesia.

  27. January 29, 2015 8:28 pm

    “”Australian lives are worth no more than any other human life.””

    I think that’s the point that Indonesia is making and who can blame them.

    Despite my leftie tendencies, I can’t help but agree with the author (of the extracts above) that had they succeeded Chan and Sukumaran would simply have gone on to either celebrate their “winnings” and/or repeat the whole process for monetary gain.

    As others have mentioned – the warning signs are everywhere in Indonesia about importing/exporting drugs and the death penalty.

    If you are stupid enough to do it then you run the consequences of your actions.

    Besides, would Chan really have become a so-called “born again chrisyan” had he not been arrested and jailed? Or Sukumaran taken up art classes if there wasn’t money to be made from drug running – or coordinating others to do the drug running while they themselves didn’t personally carry any drugs?

    Sure, I can accept that if they were my sons or brothers I’d do anything to have their lives spared, but at the same time they knew what they were getting themselves into, they knew the consequences, and they decided to gamble their lives away all the same.

  28. January 29, 2015 8:32 pm

    “I think that’s the point that Indonesia is making and who can blame them.”

    Yes, I doubt they take too favourably to us lecturing them on morality & badgering them on ‘boat people’.

  29. January 29, 2015 9:04 pm

    Is this thing broken? Am I on?

  30. January 29, 2015 9:08 pm

    As much as I dont want to sound like a moralist.. Smack is a scurge, they weren’t addicts feeding adiction, they were profiteering from others misery. They knew all too well the dire consequence of getting caught especially after Corby… Its terrible to waste a young life and nothing good can can come of this. So if nothing else but a tragic loss for a mistke of tje folly of yourh, Let it be a consequencial reality check to those would contemplate the same stupidly.

  31. January 29, 2015 9:13 pm

    What a Moronic troll 🙄

  32. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 29, 2015 9:37 pm

    I can’t agree with that ricky. I think I agree with tony 😯 maybe not for the same reasons, not sure.

    We don’t have the death penalty for a reason. I think australian police have an obligation to ensure our citizens, where possible, are not faced with that. They knew what was going to happen to these young people. You don’t make a barbaric system better by more barbaric action, we’re supposed to be better than that.

    It’s almost like every generation, our government is happy to see a few killed as a lesson to others ‘that’ll learn ’em’.

    I think that since the howard era govt and the the permanent ‘terror’ fears since, the government just washes their hands of our own eg hicks. Note that the US never leaves one of their own in trouble, they do everything in their power to get them out, bully, bribe, deal, whatever it takes, US citizens get looked after.

    We used to have a tradition of giving every assistance possible to australians in trouble abroad, now we just turn our backs.

    I don’t like it.

  33. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 29, 2015 9:40 pm

    ” Let it be a consequencial reality check to those would contemplate the same stupidly.

    Maybe, also let it be a lesson to parents – don’t ask the AFP for assistance if your child is involved with drugs, and don’t take their word for it if they say they’ll advise the child that they’re under surveillance.

    The AFP is culpable for this execution.

  34. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 29, 2015 9:48 pm

    The AFP is culpable for this execution.

    yep.

    I was wondering if they could be sued by the parents, but I’m pretty sure they would have a way out for any liability in such things.

    I note that the family of the lawyer who got shot in the lindt shop were represented by a legal team and so were the two police who did the shooting and their names were not releasedfor their own safety. Law suit for wrongful death or something to come?

  35. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 29, 2015 9:58 pm

    Is this thing broken? Am I on?

    What thing? If you don’t know what you’re on how are we supposed to? 😆

  36. January 29, 2015 10:51 pm

    These two dickheads rolled the dice knowing the bet and lost. Tough shit. Yes, l do feel sorry for their family members having to go through their misery. No, l am not arrogant enough to bleat these dickheads should not face `Indonesian-Justice` because `THEY`RE-AUSSIES`, we don`t seem to give a flying fcuk how many `brown` people our neighbors execute AFTER-trial, or how many `brown` people our allies execute by drone WITHOUT-trial. These dickheads received lndonesian PROCESS which is also applied to THEIR nationals and aide from our govt. Habib and Hicks did not. #RipDickheads

  37. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 30, 2015 12:55 am

    Not a lot of compassion on this thread.

    Actually I do care about how brown people [and white people] are treated by their own country’s justice systems. I can’t accept capital punishment at all, anywhere. I’m not in a position to do a helluva lot about it though. I don’t accept our inhumane treatment of asylum seekers either. Do you really think a trial in indonesia is justice? their crook system is known to be corrupt?

    They’ve been there for 10 yrs now, longer than some people get jailed for murder, they can spend 10 more and I’m pretty sure they would have learned a very hard lesson.

    Ever thought what decriminalisation of the drug industry would do? It just might stop the black market and corruption [on both sides of the law] that’s going on. Cigarettes kill too, no-one who manufactures and traffics in those will get jailed, they just get rich.

  38. January 30, 2015 1:46 am

    ””I can’t accept capital punishment at all, anywhere.”” #You don`t find that a tad arrogant or white-is-right when lndo citizens want THEIR country to deal with drug-runners permanently.?

    +

    ””I don’t accept our inhumane treatment of asylum seekers either.””#ditto

    +

    ””Do you really think a trial in indonesia is justice?”” #That would really depend on each persons `perspective` of justice, l suppose.

    +

    ””their crook system is known to be corrupt?””

    #Says who. Our gulag operators, and regurgitated by halfwit-media. For certain, lndo won`t want to make `any` international incident in these cases involving `foreigners` and would be ensuring their `system` will run to the letter of `their` Law. They don`t want to lose their `tourist-trade` ya`know.

    #l notice their is mixing and muddling of afp-plod, the rush-dickhead, and his dad. The rush-dickhead is not being executed, he did `earn` an execution on his appeal, but has since had it removed, the silly cnut thought he shouldn`t get any penalty. Surprise, surprise.

    #Those bleating about afp-plod informing lndo-plod overlook that the alternative would have been the other 7-donkeys would have probably been caught at airport by sniff-dogs and facing execution themselves. Old-man Rush`s/afp-plod info made sure lndo-plod got these two ring-leader-dickheads.

  39. public toilet permalink
    January 30, 2015 3:55 am

    I should clarify.

    I am in no way a supporter of capital punishment, anywhere. I’m not pleased that the two people are going to be executed. I’ve already said that the punishment is grossly disproportionate to the crime.

    My comments are supposed to reflect my disdain for widespread public sentiment when Australians have their head on the block… yet little regard for non citizens (generally ).

    The best way to avoid execution in other countries is to refrain from undertaking activities which specifically carry the death penalty there.

    I also don’t like the implication made that capital punishment is inherent to Muslim countries, because plainly it isn’t.

  40. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 30, 2015 10:22 am

    I find it bizarre that anyone would equate the harsh detaining of asylum seekers to shooting people.

  41. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 30, 2015 10:49 am

    I wasn’t equating AS & capital punishment toM, I was just trying to add another explanation to my objection to capital punishment as a final solution, although there does seem to be a death and cruelty scenario with AS too. I think more about humanity and compassion being shown rather than harsh and not particularly just, cruel punishments.

    These days I tend to think that this ‘war on drugs’ just has not worked. Perhaps we should try regulation and decriminalisation. Prohibition didn’t work with alcohol, it just created the same underworld that we have with drugs now.

  42. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 30, 2015 10:56 am

    Who hasn’t done something stupid at 21?

    Most of us don’t end up having a death sentence at the end of it and get a chance to redeem ourselves and make an attempt at living the straight and narrow.

  43. January 30, 2015 11:18 am

    I think it’s only reasonable that the one who became a born again krystian should be put to death for that reason alone. If not for that, he should be spared.

  44. TB Queensland permalink
    January 30, 2015 11:21 am

    I concur with Toillette @ January 30, 2015 3:55 am

    I would fight as hard as possible against capital punishment were I an Indonesian citizen … but there’s the rub …

    Not a lot of compassion on this thread.

    For people dealing in drugs … not here … but for families of guilty drug runners absolutely …

    And for the families of drug users … and those addicted …

    I’m against de-criminalisation of drugs … for a number of reasons …

    … the “symptoms” linger longer than people realise …

    … it debilitates people to the extent that most drug users can’t work and function normally …

    … there’s no such thing as a recreational drug – the simplest drugs always seem to lead to harder drugs …

    … it has every possibility of actually increasing crimes against society …

    … as a habit its harder to kick than smoking … (and smokers can still function) …

    … all it will do is lower prices and make it easier for younger people (an age limit would be applied) to engage in the “game” …

    … what would crims turn to then, I wonder?

    As I mentioned I also watched my sister -in-law suffer for decades for her “mistake” (against advice BTW) … but it was not just her … it had an impact on the extended whole family – and still does …

    I guess we all extend empathy, sympathy and compassion based upon our life experiences …

    I prefer to use my compassion for the real victims of drug pushers …

  45. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 30, 2015 11:29 am

    … it debilitates people to the extent that most drug users can’t work and function normally …

    You would be really surprised at the number of people in high places who are functioning drug addicts TB, be it recreational or prescription drugs. They can work and function normally.

  46. January 30, 2015 11:41 am

    ”””’Who hasn’t done something stupid at 21? +/ Most of us don’t end up having a death sentence”””’

    +

    #Most of us, at 21, didn`t try and get 7-donkeys to commit crimes they could be executed for, when caught. These coward arse-holes you want all this compassion for, were quite prepared to lead the stupid 7-donkeys to their death (and teabag-media won`t be telling us if they have done this before either) and happily recruit more stupid donkeys. They didn`t have the nads to strap any drugs to themselves. Where is your `compassion` for them or/and their future victim donkeys.

    #The lndo-Prez reckons lndo has 18000 drug-deaths per-year, his `compassion` sits with them and their families left behind.

  47. January 30, 2015 11:43 am

    I know I’ve posted this video before, more than once, but I’m repeating it for anyone who might not have seen it.

  48. January 30, 2015 11:52 am

    ””””””””’I think it’s only reasonable that the one who became a born again krystian should be put to death for that reason alone. If not for that, he should be spared.””””#LOL

    #Yes it`s amazing how all these caged squirrels find `community-service` and dog once their nuts are in the crusher. #Not.fcuking.buying.it

  49. January 30, 2015 11:59 am

    “”You would be really surprised at the number of people in high places who are functioning drug addicts TB, be it recreational or prescription drugs. They can work and function normally.””

    Very true.

  50. January 30, 2015 12:02 pm

    #Not.fcuking.buying.it

    Didn’t Schappelle become a dog-botherer too? I imagine she’s probably given it away now that she’s “”free””.

    But I suppose you can hardly blame them…

    If I was locked up 24/7 who wouldn’t want to join in a bit of a singalong and happy clappy…

  51. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 30, 2015 12:13 pm

    #Yes it`s amazing how all these caged squirrels find `community-service` and dog once their nuts are in the crusher. #Not.fcuking.buying.it

    You don’t have to [buy it]

    If you were in the same circumstances, I bet you would too!

    Love how it’s so easy to judge and condemn others so harshly when we’ve never walked a mile in their shoes.

    I reckon I wouldn’t have lasted 10 yrs in that hellhole, I would have found a way to top myself by now [the sweet bliss of a drug overdose would be the most tempting].

  52. January 30, 2015 12:17 pm

    [the sweet bliss of a drug overdose would be the most tempting].

    That appears to be the path Scott Rush is taking.

  53. January 30, 2015 12:42 pm

    ”””If you were in the same circumstances, I bet you would too!”””

    #Come off it armchair. Neither you nor l would ever be stupid enough to go `donkey` in south-east asia, or unethical either.

    #yeah reb, l think corby went muslim now that ya`mention it.

  54. TB Queensland permalink
    January 30, 2015 1:10 pm

    You would be really surprised at the number of people in high places who are functioning drug addicts TB, be it recreational or prescription drugs. They can work and function normally.

    KL, you would be surprised at how many I’ve worked with and for … and they don’t all function normally …

    It may surprise you tho’, that I was one of two training consultants who suggested to the mining industry/state government testing for competency (ie skill and knowledge) rather than/or with, drug testing … because we too believed that some individuals could actually function “better” … the idea was not taken up unfortunately …

    So spliff smokers became H sniffers on their weekends off …

  55. TB Queensland permalink
    January 30, 2015 1:13 pm

    Love how it’s so easy to judge and condemn others so harshly when we’ve never walked a mile in their shoes.

    Why would you want to … especially if you know it leads to a particularly dangerous/wrong fork in the road …

  56. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 30, 2015 1:39 pm

    #yeah reb, l think corby went muslim now that ya`mention it.

    Don’t forget how easily justice can be forgotten when people have a lot of money, remember the model who had a rich boyfriend [& his family], she went all muslim too, never saw her without a headscarf. I suggest it is something they are advised to do by lawyers because of how much emphasis is placed on religion in the country.

  57. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 30, 2015 2:37 pm

    Bali is almost entirely Hindu.

    I don’t think Muslims wield much power there, other than while behind the wheel of a taxi..

  58. armchair opinionator permalink
    January 30, 2015 2:49 pm

    Do hindu’s cover their hair?

  59. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 30, 2015 2:52 pm

    The attire of Hindu women in Bali seems to be about the complete opposite of Muslim attire!

    It’s interesting, local people genuinely dress like this!

  60. January 30, 2015 2:56 pm

    “I think it’s only reasonable that the one who became a born again krystian should be put to death for that reason alone. If not for that, he should be spared.”

    Guffaw!

  61. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    January 30, 2015 2:58 pm

    Well, maybe those 2 a a little more dolled up than typical, but –

    https://www.google.com.au/search?safe=off&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1113&bih=638&q=hindu+bali+woman&oq=hindu+bali+woman&gs_l=img.3…2016.19608.0.19916.28.14.9.5.5.1.344.2304.0j5j3j2.10.0.msedr…0…1ac.1.61.img..12.16.1742.UwzLLf9L64A#safe=off&hl=en&tbm=isch&q=hindu+woman+bali+&imgdii=_&imgrc=HL7t7gymzbsxTM%253A%3BryVDxKeAG4RR5M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic1.squarespace.com%252Fstatic%252F549d41a3e4b003c6ce131926%252F549f0cb4e4b07419f38f6875%252F549f0e32e4b097c5f14b9b8f%252F1419710003405%252FBali-Ubud-Women-With-Offerings-at-Hindu-Festival.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nodestinations.com%252Ftravel%252Findonesia%252Fbali%252F%3B1000%3B667

  62. January 30, 2015 2:59 pm

    “You would be really surprised at the number of people in high places who are functioning drug addicts TB, be it recreational or prescription drugs. They can work and function normally.”

    Absolutely.

    Not every user of recreational drugs is a junkie, by any means. Obviously, there are degrees of use & some people handle it better than others.

    Also, smoking pot is in no way synonymous with heroin use.

  63. TB Queensland permalink
    January 30, 2015 4:13 pm

    This what I was referring to, Toillette …

    Dr Bull cited examples of mass-workplace drug testing backfiring, in Australia and overseas.

    “People start using different substances, ones that metabolise more rapidly or substances that aren’t on the testing panel, or they will use substances in a potentially more harmful way to get around the testing system.

    “There’s a lot of anecdotal evidence in the Australian mining sector, which does quite a lot of drug testing, that miners have switched their drug of choice from cannabis to methamphetamine.”

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/public-service/drug-tests-at-immigration-a-waste-of-time-and-money-says-expert-20150114-12myty.html

    Some also moved to cocaine and heroine … they could afford it … they would have been better off testing for competency (see my comment above) …

  64. January 30, 2015 6:51 pm

    Fair enough. I get what you mean, cheers, TB.

  65. January 30, 2015 6:54 pm

    l agree with TB and Dr-Bull. l`ve heard the same thing from plods that have said similar on `booze-buses`. Plods started scooping up drink-drivers, drivers (some) gave-up booze and took-up choof or other. Now plods do `drug`tests at booze-bus too.

  66. TB Queensland permalink
    January 30, 2015 7:15 pm

    Ta … I just wish there was a fkn answer …!

    I should remind you that I have been retired now for almost ten years …

    Seems nothing changes …

  67. January 30, 2015 7:43 pm

    In my experience, factories which rely on workers doing mundane, ultra-repetitive tasks function better when half of the workforce is stoned.

    Anything above that and it becomes a drain upon productivity via encumbered motivation & poor decision making.

    I’d also suggest that in the former instance it’s relatively widely tolerated…kinda like ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’…

  68. January 30, 2015 7:45 pm

    I’d also suggest that cocaine etc are the choice dejour of the more ‘well off’…ie, upper/middle management & ‘office’ staff…

    Pot is so widespread that it’s almost negligible. Alcohol poses a far greater disruption to civilised society.

    All things in moderation, for those that can hack it.

  69. February 2, 2015 7:45 pm

    NAPALM DEATH, once again debunk stereotypes against death metal…

    http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/bali-nine-executions-myuran-sukumaran-andrew-chan-are-definitely-in-the-next-group/story-fnh81fz8-1227205441963

    Personally imploring the Indonesian President, who is a self declared fan, not to execute Chan & Sukamaran.

    Worth reading. Then go buy Apex Predator: Easy Meat & explode your ears!

  70. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 6, 2015 12:05 pm

    The imminent shooting of 2 Australians by the Indonesian government is a stain on the Indonesians, but represents an outrage by the AFP. I really don’t understand why they aren’t held to account.

    Here’s an email address if you think the AFP should get some feedback about their unsatisfactory actions in getting a couple of people killed – PRS-ComplaintsCoordinationTeam@afp.gov.au

  71. February 6, 2015 12:31 pm

    “”AFP will have blood on their hands, according to barrister Bob Myers””
    ….

    http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/opinion-afp-will-have-blood-on-their-hands-according-to-barrister-bob-myers/story-fnh81fz8-1227210216028

  72. February 6, 2015 4:37 pm

    I think Napalm Death may have ‘lost the argument’. Sad (I do mean that).

    http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/bali-nine-duo-myuran-sukumaran-and-andrew-chan-will-be-executed-this-month/story-fnh81fz8-1227210558261

    A terrible way to be robbed of life.

  73. February 6, 2015 4:39 pm

    FWIW, I agree that the AFP are cnuts in this tragedy.

    Things could have been kept ‘in house’, with proportionate (to us) punishments meted out.

  74. February 8, 2015 12:49 pm

    dunny”””””FWIW, I agree that the AFP are cnuts in this tragedy.

    Things could have been kept ‘in house””””””’

    l`d love to hear why ya`reckon that dunny, when the 7-donkeys an 2-ringleaders are out of our country. #in.house

  75. February 8, 2015 5:49 pm

    Because, presumably they could have waited until they were back here before ‘enacting’ their punitations?

  76. February 8, 2015 6:44 pm

    You seem to be making the assumption that lndo-plod don`t have sniffer-dogs and other `customs` technology, or skilled staff, and therefore, lndo-plod would have not caught the 7-donkeys with drugs strapped to them at the airport. (had afp-plod or/and old-man Rush stayed mum)

  77. February 8, 2015 7:12 pm

    I’m not sure that it’s me who’s making assumptions.

  78. February 9, 2015 9:28 pm

    ””””’FWIW, I agree that the AFP are cnuts in this tragedy. Things could have been kept ‘in house”””””

    ”””””Because, presumably they could have waited until they were back here before ‘enacting’ their punitations?”””””’

    ”””””’I’m not sure that it’s me who’s making assumptions.””””’

    #lt seems you are, but`ya `vague` non-answers will impress Tinfoil`osy.

    #according to afp-plod on my abc #4corners tonight, afp-plod had no `lawful` reason to arrest team-donkey due to `lack of evidence`. Therefore, afp-plod forwarded what info they had to lndo-plod. Team-donkey was nabbed at airport.

    (elsewhere l heard that lndo-plod monitored team-donkey at their hotel room/s, gathered more evidence, trailed them to airport)

  79. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 10, 2015 2:03 pm

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/afp-unrepentant-over-its-role-in-bali-nine-capture/story-fnq2o7dd-1227214460386

    THE Australian Federal Police remains unrepentant for its role in putting Bali Nine drug traffickers Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan on death row, despite mounting criticism.

    The AFP is a disgrace. Co-operating with jurisdictions that will use the co-operation to kill Australian citizens is unacceptable.

    Remember this is the email address if anyone feels inclined to send them some criticism-

    PRS-ComplaintsCoordinationTeam@afp.gov.au

  80. February 10, 2015 2:34 pm

    anal jones aint exactly a fountain of wisdom, not even on qandaland, .. .. from yomm`s limited-news link

    +

    ”””’the AFP has rejected this assessment.

    In response to questions put by ABC current affairs program Four Corners, the AFP said that it had no evidence or lawful reason to detain, arrest or charge any member of the Bali Nine before they left Australia.

    “The AFP was unaware of the hierarchy of the syndicate, the identity of all syndicate members or the source of drugs that may have been imported. Additionally, Myuran Sukumaran was not known to the AFP prior to his arrest on April 17, 2005,” it said.

    Ultimately, the AFP said exchanging information between countries was a “routine” part of its efforts to prevent illegal drug trafficking.

    “The AFP’s role is to work cooperatively with law enforcement partners around the world to combat all forms of serious and organised crime impacting Australia,” the AFP said.

    “Such co-operation is critical in targeting the borderless nature of crime and for the protection of the Australian community.””””’

    +

    #seems to be saying the same things l`ve said yomm, even limited-news managed to remain with facts and not buy into jones hysteria

  81. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 10, 2015 2:57 pm

    Yeah right…“€œSuch co-operation is critical in targeting the borderless nature of crime and for the protection of the Australian community …and when “co-operation” results in people being shot to death, I’m sure we’re all comforted by the “protection”

  82. February 10, 2015 3:42 pm

    ””””””’and when ”co-operation” results in people being shot to death, I’m sure we’re all comforted by the ”protection”””””

    sorry yomm, l won`t be joining those in club-hypocrite and white-is-right, lndo is quite capable of dealing with drug-runners and bombers within `their` system. (which has always been my position) .. .. l`m not one of those hypocrites that bayed for blood of the bali-bombers, and neither am l arrogant enough to `demand` drug-runners `coz THEYRE AUSSIE get-off the consequences the lndo system deems correct. .. .. On afp-plod, nobody seems to be `actually-proving` afp-plod acted outside the laws, protocols and powers afp-plod are meant to act under/within. Only seen emotional hysteria thus far.

  83. February 10, 2015 3:51 pm

    Maybe should ask the other drug mules within the Bali 9 whether they think Chan and Sukumaran should be spared the death penalty?

    I mean Chan and Sukumaran were clever enough to not carry any heroin themselves, and from what I recall Sukumaran was the hired muscle to make sure the other members of the B9 didn’t get cold feet and back out at the last minute.

  84. February 10, 2015 4:06 pm

    l don`t think anybody that has faced it, or in an lndo-prison, would be `pro-execution` reb

  85. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 10, 2015 4:13 pm

     white-is-right

    Crap and lazy. You’ll have to excuse me for observing that those about to be shot have a similar complexion to those that will be shooting them.

    The issue isn’t whether Indonesia has the death penalty. Or whether drug dealers are the worst form of low life.

    The issue is whether an instrument of our government should actively co-operate in actions that leads to execution.

  86. February 10, 2015 5:12 pm

    Yomm my dear halfwit, the term

    `club-hypocrite and white-is-right` that l`ve used is NOT referring to the prisoners, (l don`t, and never have given a flying fcuk what `color` they are) but IS referring to the arrogance megaphoned by teabag-media coming from current and former gulag operators in canberra. lt is just so fcuking arrogant and unethical that those that green-lighted, destruction of lraq, kidnap and torture in other nations (and-boatpeople), indiscriminate murder by drone, declare `guilty-without-trial` hicks, haneef, habib, assange, should have the fcuking nerve to try and shit on another nations `Due-Process`. Do you really think other nations don`t take note of `lecturing` nations `baggage`.? Do you really think lndo-Prez doesn`t consider at least `some` of those issues when dealing with canberra hypocrites.?

    #on afp-plod, prove ya`case, which protocols/rules were broken.?

  87. TB Queensland permalink
    February 10, 2015 5:31 pm

    The issue is whether an instrument of our government should actively co-operate in actions that leads to execution.

    Are you saying the AFP should not co-operate with any country that still has capital punishment on its statutes?

  88. February 10, 2015 6:14 pm

    “The issue isn’t whether Indonesia has the death penalty.”

    Oh ok I guess that’s that settled then.

  89. February 10, 2015 6:24 pm

    I did some fairly stupid things in my 20’s too. On at least one occasion this included the opportunity to shoot up some heroin at parties.

    Heroin hasn’t really had a lot of good press lately, and the situation was the same back then so I politely declined. Regardless of how “off my face”I might’ve been at the time, the idea of shoving a needle into my arm to get even more wasted never really held much appeal.

    Call me old fashioned, but if you travel to Bali, where there are signs everywhere saying that smuggling drugs carries the DEATH PENALTY, but then you decide to do it anyway, then that takes a special kind of stupid.

  90. February 10, 2015 6:47 pm

    ””””””””there are signs everywhere saying that smuggling drugs carries the DEATH PENALTY, but then you decide to do it anyway, then that takes a special kind of stupid.””””””

    +

    l`ve heard exactly the same from probably `about` half-a-dozen people that went to various `asian` countries over the years. One dude, who went to phuket, told me when he was leaving sydney airport, the `boarding` area and the `boarding-tubes` they put against the jets, were covered in posters with drug-running/death-penalty warnings, in various languages and `messaged` in multiple ways. The dude reckoned there is just no possible way `anybody` could claim `they-didn`t-know`.

  91. February 10, 2015 7:20 pm

    Yep I hear you Reb…totally agree..

    Like I said before ( dont wanna sound like Nils) I just is not plausible that someone cannot have known… So they were profiteering..

    We have all done stupid shit and I have seen enough of the bad side of drug culture in the music and arts scene to cure me for good.

    A guy and a girl OD’d from smack from my school so I have always been aware of the consequence from age 13… Its always had a bad rep despite lots of my fave artists being smack addicts including national icon Paul Kelly

    What is obvious is these guys are most certainly rehabilitated and if it went down in Aus or Europe they would be out in 3-5 years. Its an utterly tragic waste of life.

    Alan Jones (strike me pink quoting him FFS) was very forthright on Q&A.. we gave em billions when the Tsunami went down and there is no humanity for our own despite our pleads at all levels. You would think that we could negotiate a custodial here at least..

    I tend to agree that considering the info that boys father passed on.. the AFP hung these guys out to dry looking for more political capital with the lure of a big fish..

    No good can come of their death ,,no deterrent.. nothing but a tragic waste of life.

  92. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 10, 2015 11:09 pm

    Apparently the diatribe comment at 5.12 was a reply to my criticism of the AFP for co-operating in the shooting of Australian citizens.

    Apparently.

  93. February 11, 2015 7:33 am

    Only to cocooned tinfoil cubicle types that aint bright enough to follow text on a page.

  94. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2015 9:13 am

    Yeah. Apparently the actions of the AFP have something to do with ” white is right” or something.

    Meanwhile the NSW police shoot a poor demented young woman. Another “white is right” moment. Probably

  95. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2015 10:42 am

    Only to cocooned tinfoil cubicle types that aint bright enough to follow text on a page

    Well thanks for that … like ToM I wondered what it was about … apparently …

    Re: AFP involvement – evidence? Is there any evidence the father went to the AFP?

    I have seen enough of the bad side of drug culture in the music …. scene to cure me for good.

    Me too, RP, never touched uppers/downers – of any colour and there was a few! (usually given away in the Green Room at the dance venues – (in one venue sold by nationally known singer in the late sixties) … and I avoided spliffs like the plague … must have been plenty of secondary tho’ …

    … I could get into enough trouble with alcohol … although that began when I was in the Army! (22 yo! Before I had my first drink!).

  96. February 11, 2015 7:56 pm

    TB”””like ToM I wondered what it was about”””

    http://www.google.com/gwt/n?u=https://theguttertrash.com/2015/01/29/indonesia-about-to-commit-state-sanctioned-murder-against-two-aussies/&whp=3Acomment-94959

    get out of ya`email account and view the webpage TB, can`t follow shit in email,

    pop that link above for a rapid-load page and you should be able to follow thread, BTW the url prefix works on most pages, it is how l view most webpages as it strips-out all the `bloatware` scripts loaded into pages, (its great for TEXT, limited-news and guardian)

  97. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2015 9:46 pm

    So you think that using a different font improves your grammar? Or your rationality?

    Of course it does (sarc alert)

  98. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2015 10:08 pm

    tbagz … I use a phone for calls – very occasionally – $10 Plan should tell ya … you assume way to much …

    In fact I’ve never used anything but a PC (occasional laptop overseas) for TGT …

  99. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 11, 2015 11:03 pm

    Why can’t the kiddies play nice in the sandpit?

  100. February 11, 2015 11:15 pm

    tb””””’In fact I’ve never used anything but a PC (occasional laptop overseas) for TGT””””’

    #ha ha, l never even thought about `devices` TB #good.point

    tb”””you assume way to much”””#yeah.agree l got lazy and didn`t put a copy/paste to what l was replying to #my.bad

    +

    for clarity.. .. .. ..

    yomm”””Apparently the diatribe comment at 5.12 was a reply to my criticism of the AFP for co-operating in the shooting of Australian citizens. .. .. Apparently.”””

    Only to cocooned tinfoil cubicle types that aint bright enough to follow text on a page.

  101. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 11, 2015 11:15 pm

    Why did ex-AFP chief mick keelty feel a need to personally attend scott rush’s final appeal? [after he’d left the job], nothing but guilt I believe.

    Death-row inmate faced fine in Australia, Keelty admits:
    http://www.smh.com.au/world/deathrow-inmate-faced-fine-in-australia-keelty-admits-20100916-15erh.html

    …Mr Keelty, resplendent in a purple ikat shirt, said Rush would have got off with a “limited” sentence if arrested in Australia, perhaps even a bond or fine…

    …But the stony faces of Mr and Mrs Rush spoke eloquently of their disgust at the AFP.

    Not only did the federal police alert the Indonesians to the syndicate knowing they could face death, Lee Rush was so concerned about his drug-addicted son’s planned trip to Bali that he got a lawyer friend, Robert Myers, to call the federal police and beg them to stop him from going…

    They were deliberately thrown to the wolves, I don’t think howard had much concern for them or for hicks, but they shouldn’t pick and choose whom they assist. At one time, australia used to help their citizens in trouble abroad, now it’s only the people they pre- judge as deserving.

  102. February 11, 2015 11:28 pm

    yomm””””comment at 5.12 was a reply to my criticism of the AFP for co-operating in the shooting of Australian citizens.””””

    #the 5.12 comment lists a lot of `baggage` the fed.govt does/not do, which l have `feel-pinions` that it is `wrong` that fed.govt behaves that way. With all the `anti-tewwa` shit that has been pushed thru since newyork911, l just don`t think my `feel-pinions` equate to those Govt.Depts acting illegal.

    #likewise anal jones you yomm, have `feel-pinions`, and yes, you`re both absolutely allowed to have and share anal-jones `feel-pinions`, and also likewise, l also doubt your `feel-pinions` equate to those Govt.Depts acting illegal.

    as l said up-thread .. .. .. ..

    #on afp-plod, prove ya`case, which protocols/rules were broken.?

  103. February 12, 2015 12:20 am

    armchair l look at it a bit different, both teams say publicly, they don`t believe in death-sentence, they`re doing all they can for the prisoners, yadda, yadda, yadda. l just don`t believe the `behind-closed-doors` message to lndo-Govt is the same as the `public` message. Never have. Just as habib and hicks were green-lighted for torture/gulags/etc.

    +

    The 7-donkeys were all originally sentenced to years in cold-storage, not death. The rush-donkey appealed, then got `death`, the female-donkey dropped her `appeal` immediately. On another appeal, the rush-donkey had `death` removed, and put back in cold-storage. So, at this point all 7-donkeys are safe in cold-storage. But notice, all anti-afp-plod bleating by teabag-media continually mixes in the rush-donkey. Why. There is definitely something fishy with teabag-media reporting, but l just can`t put my finger on it at the moment.

  104. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2015 9:11 am

    What’s with you?? Where have I suggested that the AFP has broken any law?

    I’ve suggested –
    • Their actions are disgraceful, in providing information to the Indonesian Police that they know would result in the shooting of Australian citizens
    • Scott Rush’s father provided information with the objective of preventing the crime, not to have people killed and incarcerated in a hell hole
    • If they wish, people should express their displeasure to the AFP – PRS-ComplaintsCoordinationTeam@afp.gov.au

    I think you’re very confused, but that seems to be your normal condition.

  105. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2015 2:29 pm

    …and if anyone feels like emailing the Indonesian Embassy – indonemb@kbri-canberra.org.au

    But it remains the AFP that deserves the condemnation

  106. February 12, 2015 7:34 pm

    ””””’it remains the AFP that deserves the condemnation””””

    #yeah right, afp-plod `deserve-condemnation` for working to the rules, laws and protocols dictated to afp-plod `by` parliament. The very same parliament that has rushed thru multiple anti-tewwa `laws`. Ya`really struggle to look `up` the food-chain when delegating blame, don`t`ya. Won`t blame those that make shit decisions, just the poor bastards that have to work under them.

    +

  107. February 12, 2015 7:36 pm

    And you reckon l`m `confused`, oh tinfoil cubicle dweller. 🙂

  108. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2015 9:55 pm

    No wonder you defend the outrageous actions of the AFP, all you do is verbal, and not very well.

    #confusedf**kwit

  109. February 12, 2015 10:31 pm

    no confusion on my part at all yomm, l understand chains of events very well, and remain firmly in `reality`, l`m not the one that can`t find fact based evidence to support my `feel-pinions`

    #on afp-plod, prove ya`case, which protocols/rules were broken.?

    and lets face it yomm, if the 9-donkeys were not in cold-storage and on death-row in bali, but were back here in oz working some shit-job, you would be `deep-throating` how `reasonable` it would be to deny them a `living` wage #doubtful.humanity

  110. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2015 10:45 pm

    What are you now on about? Being shot to death equates to low wages?

    #veryconfusedf**kwit

  111. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 15, 2015 7:23 pm

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/boycottbali

    I go to Bali quite a lot, so I’m really not sure whether I’m supporting this, but I get the sentiment.

  112. February 15, 2015 7:47 pm

    #boycottbali

    That seems a bit silly to me. The local Balinese who depend on tourism to get by will be the ones who suffer..

    It’d be like New Zealanders boycotting Australia because of our asylum seeker policies.

    It’s not like we, the people are responsible for the actions of the nutters who run the joint.

    At any rate, even if there is a Boycott Bali campaign, it’ll probably last 2 or 3 weeks and then everything will return to normal.

  113. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 15, 2015 7:59 pm

    Maybe, but Bali voted for Joko Widodo and he seems to be using executions to appease conservatives.

    But I’m really not principled enough to go without a few days there.

  114. February 15, 2015 8:21 pm

    “I’m really not principled enough. to go without a few days there”

    There, fixed it for you ToM.. 🙂

  115. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2015 8:32 pm

    I’ve never been to Bali … I’ve no desire to go to Bali … Bali looks and sounds like a shithole manipulated by wannabe mafia and Robber Barons … both pretty much the same really … and it’s also been known to blow up on occasion …

  116. February 15, 2015 8:39 pm

    “”I’ve never been to Bali … “”

    It’s good to see that hasn’t prevented you from forming a profoundly negative opinion of the place.

    Is that a “Queensland thing?”

  117. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 15, 2015 8:54 pm

    Yeah TB. Just like Surfers Paradise is all Queensland.

    Kuta is quite similar to Surfers Paradise, but –
    • it doesn’t have as many all you can eat buffets
    • the locals aren’t shady fat losers
    • the food is much better
    • tourists are less likely to get mugged
    • it’s friendlier
    • the accommodation is pleasant

    But I’m sure you know all that. In any event, Kuta occupies about 2 square kms, out of about 6000.

    Medwei is nice

    and this is how you get out to the break at Uluwaruu

  118. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2015 9:10 pm

    Chuckle … must just be the bogans from Mexico I’ve seen on telly then …

    At this stage I’ll stick to Eratap … with no kids around …

    Seriously, ToM … those photos look good … but I don’t serf* …

  119. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 17, 2015 10:14 am

    TANYA Plibersek says Bali Nine convicted drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran should have been picked up by police in Australia.
    Asked this morning if the Australian Federal Police should wear some of the blame for tipping off Indonesian police about the smuggling operation rather than arresting Chan and Sukumaran when they returned to Australia, Labor’s foreign affairs spokeswoman said it was “unquestionable” that it would have resulted in a better outcome.

    She is correct. The AFP should never participate in imposing the death sentence.

    The public should direct their outrage to the AFP, less so to the Indonesians.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/tanya-plibersek-it-would-have-been-better-for-police-to-catch-bali-nine-in-australia/story-fncynjr2-1227222259664

  120. Grumpy permalink
    April 28, 2015 7:03 pm

    The AFP unquestionably have blood on their hands. I will never go to Indonesia, not for what they’ve done but for the contempt they have shown to Australia. It’s obvious we’re not really friends. We need to factor that into our defence policy, especially our naive attitude to nuclear non-proliferation. We should actively discourage travel to any of the “murder nations” routinely slaughtering people for non-murder offences.

  121. Grumpy permalink
    April 28, 2015 7:14 pm

    sorry Tom. But it’s not the AFP treating the prisoners as badly as out “friends to the north” are. … No extended family visit… No spiritual advisers (except for Jakarta-nominated stooges). The AFP should be held to account and the irresponsible bozos who handed these men over the a corrupt and savages regime should be severely punished (including dismissal and seizure of Superannuation.) but let’s not forget who is firing the shots…

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