Legal Fraternity Defend Gillian Triggs in Abbott Govt Scrag Fight!
Australia’s peak law bodies and academics have thrown their support behind the president of the Australian Human Rights Commission, Gillian Triggs, warning that attacks on her by the federal government are a threat to democracy.
Two letters praising Triggs’ integrity and the importance of the commission’s report into children in detention were written after it was revealed the attorney general, George Brandis, had asked her to resign and government backbenchers had threatened a parliamentary inquiry into “bias” in her organisation.
The Australian Bar Association and the Law Council of Australia issued a joint statement decrying the personal attacks on Triggs, saying they undermined confidence in our system of justice and human rights protection.
In a separate statement, also released on the weekend, a group of 50 academics said that the independence of the human rights commission was threatened by politicised attacks on the office holder.
“The prime minister has labelled this report as a ‘blatantly partisan political exercise’ and a ‘transparent stitch-up’,” the letter from academics from universities across the country, including Professor Brian Burdekin, Prof Andrew Byrnes, Prof Judith Cashmore, Prof Danielle Celermajer, Julian Burnside and Prof Hilary Charlesworth said.
“Neither the prime minister nor any other member of the government has pointed to any factual errors in the report; their concern has been to attack the timing and motivation of the report and to seek to assign all fault to the other side of politics.
“A well-functioning democracy requires that the executive respect the work of independent public institutions established by parliament to perform specific functions even if it does not agree with specific positions adopted by them,” the letter states.
The two professional bodies representing all Australian lawyers said they had taken the unusual step of entering the political fray because the “unprecedented attack” on Griggs was “alarming”.
“The Australian Bar Association and Law Council of Australia agree that personal attacks deflect attention from the very serious findings of the report and place an individual office holder under significant pressure – we cannot tolerate our public officials and institutions being subjected to this barrage for fulfilling their statutory duties,” ABA president Fiona McLeod and Law Council president Duncan McConnel said.
“To do so is to compromise the integrity of those institutions charged with holding the government to account.”
theguttertrash.com 
“”All I have done is asked you to explain how, once the context has been seen, you can still support your assertion, yet you still appear to be throwing it out there randomly, in what appears to be a continuing effort to show how it somehow makes her NOT a “good” woman.””
Maybe it’s just splatterbottom’s way of suggesting that someone should make “”an honest woman out of her?””
#verbalingbottomday
Just for some “context 😉
https://theguttertrash.com/2015/02/11/good-government-started-the-day-before-yesterday/#comment-95629
#verbalingbottomday
I didn’t realise that we have another thread for this, her is my post at the end of the other.
In my view the statement Triggs made was inconsistent with that assertion.
A statement made by a woman who has been given devastating news, that her baby will not survive life and never function as a normal human being, makes her a ‘bad’ woman.
She said nothing that other parents in the same situation have not said and she has done nothing that others in the same situation have not done before.
If we are going to judge and condemn people for having their family in care, I’m assuming that you will also find all those people who continue to work while placing their elderly parents and relatives into a nursing home as very ‘bad’ people?
I can point to the work that she has done [and continues to do] as evidence that she is a ‘good’ woman. Can you give me the evidence to prove that she is ‘bad’?
Can you tell me what evidence you have that she has mistreated or neglected her daughter, how she has physically, sexually or emotionally abused her.
All i can say is that you must have a very jaundiced view of women in general [we already know about piers akerman’s history of sexism and sexual harassment].
Can you give me the evidence to prove that she is ‘bad’?
It’s the “vibe”
What do we think of politicians who make personal, political attacks on public servants for doing their job? For attacking the person when they don’t like the information they are given?
What do we think of politicians who bully and intimate public servants of independent organisations so that they self censor and are no longer independent and cannot give frank and fearless advice, cannot speak truth to power?
I worked with an exceptionally capable guy, he had a disabled son. He decided he’d prefer to decline a promotion because the pressure and hours would have limited his ability to provide personal care for his son.
That seems “good” to me.
…and that others might have made a different decision doesn’t necessarily make them “bad” or “good” – probably just normal.
That seems “good” to me.
So, obviously, the inverse is true ….?
What do we think of politicians who make ……….
Gutless Bullies is a term that fits imo
We could make it easy ….
The Triggy Question Quiz
Tick one box only.
1. Is Gillian Triggs:
☐ A good woman
☐ A bad woman
☐ A woman
☐ Someone doing a job
…and that others might have made a different decision doesn’t necessarily make them “bad” or “good” – probably just normal.
Or indeterminate 😉
☐ Someone doing a job
Wouldn’t it be nice if it was just left at that. But instead, people need to trawl the gutters.
“All i can say is that you must have a very jaundiced view of women in general “
And all I can say is that you are a sadistic sex-killer who uses the knob on the end of the femurs of your victims to pleasure yourself.
The rest of your comment is equally dishonest and deranged:
“She said nothing that other parents in the same situation have not said and she has done nothing that others in the same situation have not done before.”
There have been other sadistic sex-killers before. That doesn’t make you a good woman.
“If we are going to judge and condemn people for having their family in care”
Reframing the question – I said no such thing you lying sadistic sex-killer.
“I can point to the work that she has done [and continues to do] as evidence that she is a ‘good’ woman.”
So now doing your job in a highly partisan way means you are good. Such is life in the world of the lefty sadistic sex-killer.
“Can you tell me what evidence you have that she has mistreated or neglected “
Can you give me any evidence that you did not enjoy torturing and dismembering your victims?
So people who don’t do the care themselves, who don’t sacrifice their own lives and careers are ‘bad’?
Not everyone has the family support behind them to make those choices nor do they have the physical, psychological and emotional strength to do so. Some decide the best they can do is make enough money to provide the necessary care for their child. Different people make different choices, choices that they can live with.
I don’t judge them for any of those choices. I am thankful that I have not been faced with them myself.
Do we judge working mothers as not as moral and not as worthy or as ‘good’ as the SAH mums? oh wait…yes, we do, well certain people do, but they judge everyone around them don’t they, everyone has to conform to their view of life.
People are different.
Why is triggs husband not being judged here? He could have sacrificed himself to personally care for the child.
Now, is there anyone out there who wants to have an honest discussion of this issue?
Reframing the question – I said no such thing
No, you have studiously avoided saying anything except for repeating a line without context, which makes this claim ……
Now, is there anyone out there who wants to have an honest discussion of this issue?
the height of hypocrisy
So, I’ll just keep asking WHY?
And all I can say is that you are a sadistic sex-killer who uses the knob on the end of the femurs of your victims to pleasure yourself.
i’m not even bothering with a reply to that ridiculous ad hom attack, I’ll just let it stand and speak for itself.
that ridiculous ad hom attack
Seems to be a pattern of behaviour
” I’ll just let it stand and speak for itself.”
I’m happy with that!
All I did was mirror your illogical and gratuitously offensive arguments. The difference between us is that you thought you were making sense.
Now, is there anyone out there who wants to have an honest discussion of this issue?
The honest discussion would be about abbott’s personal, political attack on an independent report and commissioner, not a private choice made by triggs 21 years ago
Anyone who thinks it is about triggs and her daughter is a rusted on partisan, they don’t think, they’re just drinking the koolaid with relish.
All I did was mirror your illogical and gratuitously offensive arguments.
I think the mirror is another location actually sb
#justsayin #verbalingbottomday
I think we can do with a little less of the personal insults and just stick to discussing the topic at hand.
Splatterbottom and Ricky Pann take note.
Thank you.
Kamahl (the Moderator)
“Anyone who thinks it is about triggs and her daughter is a rusted on partisan, they don’t think, they’re just drinking the koolaid with relish.”
I don’t think this is about whether Triggs is a “good” woman. That is a side issue you introduced. I just didn’t want to drink your Kool-Aid. I pointed out stuff Triggs said that, in my mind at least, was inconsistent with your assertion that she was a “good” woman.
If you don’t want to talk about issues like that, don’t bring them up!
All I did was mirror your illogical and gratuitously offensive arguments
And I was doing the same except mine were relevant to the discussion.
You thought my reasoning on people putting their parents and relatives in nursing homes and SAH mums vs working mums was not at all relevant?
It is very relevant, because it is about life choices people make and you’ve got no answer to it except a ridiculous fantasy of personal attack.
I know who has the illogical and gratuitously offensive arguments, it is you, because you got nothin’ and now you are going off your trolley trying to defend your original judgement on triggs.
This is the worst personal insult today:
“All i can say is that you must have a very jaundiced view of women in general “
which was seriously spat out at me.
My response was deliberately OTT so as not to cause actual offence.
That is a side issue you introduced.
BS, why do you keep repeating the statement, in bold too, as if it means something?
Pretty sure it was also you who first placed that statement here and was trying to make triggs sound immoral or, if you are catholic oriented, a ‘bad’ mother, the worst of the worst of women.
How you can even form a view of anything I’ve written as personally offensive to you is beyond me sb.
Perhaps someone else can point it out to me.
I think you still got nothin’ and you are over reaching and over reacting to try and claim victim status. It’s you who has been personally offensive, not me.
“…“All i can say is that you must have a very jaundiced view of women in general “…”
“…This is the worst personal insult today:…”
😆 🙄
Really, isn’t it time that someone told Kamahl to f**k off.
“Never mind besmirching a hard earned professional reputation of a good woman.”
She’d have a better reputation and more credibility if she hadn’t farmed out her own disabled daughter to be raised by another family.
https://theguttertrash.com/2015/02/11/good-government-started-the-day-before-yesterday/#comment-95308
The problem sb, is, since making the comment, you haven’t shown HOW? Even though you keep repeating hte statement, as if it alone means something.
Please, put your point forward. If you have one
Or is it still just “The Vibe”?
It’s you who has been personally offensive, not me.
I AGREE!
LOL @ ToM
“”It’s you who has been personally offensive, not me.””
I AGREE TOO!
Whooooooooooooooo ……………Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !
I see its pretty rough in the playground today………………….LOL
Oh how I have missed you angry bastards and bitches ( don’t wanna be sexist)
Cant hang around much today as I have to do a few things around Sydney town.
PS and rumours of my death seem to have been exaggerated.
Hey Kamahl I’ll tell you why people are so unkind…because you’re a black liberal voting cunt 🙂
I’m just loving the road accident that is the feral federal front bench….
Its like anyone who has anything even slightly differing t from anything they can spin to blame Labor with a 3 word slogan… gets the leftist castigation in a barrage of character assassination….
Time to boot these
adultsinfantile incompetants“”PS and rumours of my death seem to have been exaggerated.””
Excellent! (I think) we’re all really pleased to hear that…
Although, no doubt we may come to later regret it..
“why do you keep repeating the statement”
KL, you were the one who brought up the issue of whether Triggs was a “good woman.”
That point was irrelevant to the main conversation and I probably should have left it alone. But I didn’t. I contested your view and quoted a Triggs statement which is relevant to that question. So now, we’ve wasted a lot of time on a sideshow. And had some snarky fun along the way.
“Please, put your point forward. If you have one”
I’ve said this so many times Tom R:
Triggs, in her puff piece, said she decided not to invest too much time in her daughter because:
(a) her daughter was going to die anyway; and
(b) Triggs would rather put the time into her other children.
I find that reasoning abhorrent and it would be one factor mitigating against a view that someone was a “good” person. (note, it is the reasoning I’m complaining about here.
I have many times noted that other people would see nothing wrong with that statement. What I don’t get is why I am not entitled to my opinion on this?
Your attitude is particularly strange because of the nature of this blog, where hardly a day goes by without some personal attack on some public figure, not mention personal attacks on each other. As I said before, your whining might have some force if you consistently challenged all personal attacks. But you are too much a partisan for that.
note, it is the reasoning I’m complaining about here.
The reasoning is simply somebody conveying, perhaps poorly, a part of a thought process. For you to extrapolate that into an argument, and then not countenance why others will find your assertion itself abhorrent is truly something worth complaining about.
Yes, people get quite belligerent here. But, that is a long way from you just throwing mud into a broader conversation about a report that for some reason one side of politics is trying to stifle, even though two sides of politics have been implicated.
What I don’t get is why I am not entitled to my opinion on this?
You can have any bloody opinion you want. But, when you start claiming that it means something, then you best be prepared to back your “opinion” up with some “reasoning”
That has been lacking all along.
Yes, you find a statement, without context, appalling. As did I, until I sought out “context” and meaning, and, in that light, found that no real conclusion can be made one way or another. Yes, she relayed those thoughts, in the direct aftermath of the Drs telling her those very thoughts. See the line?
And still you haven’t explained WHY, but instead just keep repeating the statement, and in the process, continue to misrepresent it in order to lay the worst light on it. To my knowledge, the decision to not bring up the child herself hasn’t been attributed to your points a) or b). They were simply examples of what was going through her mind at a very heightened time of anxiety.
But, you will repeat them, and attribute them as you wish. Such is life.
I knew Walrus remained healthy.
Only the good die young.
Really, isn’t it time that someone told Kamahl to f**k off.
Bloody hell, ToM, I thought he was dead … 😉
Although, no doubt we may come to later regret it..
I know I will!!! 😯
Hey, Wally, noice to see yer alive and snappin’ … 🙂
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That point was irrelevant to the main conversation and I probably should have left it alone. But I didn’t.
I don’t think you actually complete the Quiz above, sb? Might have saved a lot of energy and time.
Been working on my model railway this morning and cringing at Micheal Smith (he sounds like Alan Jones’ SON!
He too was trying to make the report seem political … only people doing that are the Libs I’m afraid … Smith was saying it was talking about the situation in 2013 – ie 1900 kids UNDER LABOR!
WGAF whose watch its under its WRONG! Simple as shit … it was wrong to send any Muslims to Manus (and especially children) – talk about a clash of cultures and religion … much worse scenario than here …
I have many times noted that other people would see nothing wrong with that statement. What I don’t get is why I am not entitled to my opinion on this?
… because you are shooting the messenger and fogging the report … very liberal minded approach …
Ahhh, I see you have the Seniors Cinebuzz Card now, sreb, with the all you can eat popcorn offer … are you Muslim or Jewish …??
“”Why I am not entitled to my opinion on this?””
You kind of are, aren’t you…?
I mean, you’ve expressed it fairly vociferously in the recent past, so much so that it’s now catapulted into it’s own dedicated thread…
What you may be struggling with is the fact that not everyone agrees with your opinion…
That’s not quite the same as holding an opinion, yet not being allowed to express it.
#Justsaying
“Yes, she relayed those thoughts, in the direct aftermath of the Drs telling her those very thoughts. See the line?”
Not quite. She relayed those thoughts in a puff piece decades after the event. She gave only two reasons for her decision. I don’t see any reason to think there were more. As I pointed out other people, devotees of Singer for example, would find nothing wrong with her reasons. I don’t see why you should expect me to disbelieve her.
Obviously I would tick box 3, TB. But that is irrelevant to the discussion.
“What you may be struggling with is the fact that not everyone agrees with your opinion…”
Nah. I said from early on that not everyone would agree with it, even cited the utilitarian philosopher Singer as an example. I am more interested in why Tom R has got so self-righteous about it. And that fucker never lets up so the conversation has just gone round in circles.
But I’m done with it now. Tom R and KL can have the last words.
She gave only two reasons for her decision.
They only printed two reasons. Just to be pedantic.
I am more interested in why Tom R has got so self-righteous about it
Because as abhorrent as you claim her comments to be, is as abhorrent as your continued attack on here character, without as yet a reason.
“Never mind besmirching a hard earned professional reputation of a good woman.”
She’d have a better reputation and more credibility if she hadn’t farmed out her own disabled daughter to be raised by another family.
https://theguttertrash.com/2015/02/11/good-government-started-the-day-before-yesterday/#comment-95308
The “good woman” description is interesting.
I wonder whether Bob Hawke can be described as a “good man’ because he had some decent policies, was concerned about workers, and seemed motivated to by good will.
On the other hand, he was vain, apparently didn’t worry much about family, was a philanderer and drank to excess.
(not that there is anything wrong with drinking and philandering)
Triggs is a lying scum bag who has destroyed the worth of her report by her political bias in the way she approached the hearing and her lies to the Senate committee as to whether she discussed the role of the HRC with members of the ALP which at first she denied then acknowledged when caught up in her own lie
Her clear bias is best demonstrated by this exchange when even the Secretary of the Immigration Dept felt enough was enough with her bullshit and was forced to speak up
President Triggs
Can I interrupt here because we’ve heard this argument over and over again. The
people of Christmas Island are being detained in a prison effectively. People in rural
communities in Australia are, in the main, there because they want to be there.
There’s a very real difference, I mean the duty that you have in terms of medical
services …
Mr Secretary
Sorry President, can I just really take offence at some of those emotive statements
yet again. It is not fair to characterise the detention system as a jail or whatever form
of words you want to use. That is offensive to the professionalism again of the many
people who are trying to do a job. There are a …
President
I’m not [inaudible]. I’m concerned about the conditions. There is no doubt that on an
island that is four hours’ flight from Western Australia whether a landing strip that is
debatable or sometimes unsafe so you can’t land planes and where many people
have to be flown out for basic medical care, they are inside, I’ve been there three
times. You cannot get into any of the sections without going through armed guards
etc., etc. I don’t need to….
Mr Secretary
We do not have armed guards.
President
To describe those …
Mr Secretary
We do not have armed guards President.
President
… as not prisons.
Mr Secretary
We do not have armed guards President. I’d like you to acknowledge that.
President
I’m not sure that I’ve … I’m …
Mr Secretary
I would like you to acknowledge that.
President
We I won’t. I will check that, but my understanding is that some of those guards arearmed and I have been through those checkpoints three times.
Mr Secretary
Well again President, I would like you to check that and I would like you to retract
that.
Minister
Morrison
I just need to understand what the President’s suggesting.
President
But the point I’m making …
Minister
Morrison
No no, Madam President, this is a very …
President
These are locked detentions. To pretend that they’re not in remote islands …
Mr Secretary
Nobody is pretending anything of the sort. It is detention. Absolutely. In the context
of the policy. It is administrative detention to the policy, in context of the policy.
President
On any analysis, that is either locked detention or a prison, whatever words …
Minister
Morrison
Madam President, you would have been to many jails and prisons.
President Indeed.
Minister
Morrison
And are you suggesting that Longbay jail is the same as a pool fenced alternative
place of detention at Phosphate Hill on Christmas Island.
President
I would like to move on, but basically I have been a practising lawyer since I was 22
years old and I’ve been in many prisons and I know a prison when I see it.
Minister
Morrison
Madam President I have just asked you, you said that these places are prisons, now
you’ve been in prisons so you are telling me that the Phosphate Hill compound on
Christmas Island is the same as Long Bay Jail.
President
I am not saying they are equivalent, I’m saying that the present facilities
Minister
Morrison
Well we can move on then Madam President.
President
Thank you
Unsurpingly the Triggs the lying grub refused to retract her bullshit statement
And for someone who claims the moral high ground about the treatment of children she didn’t sem to give a flying fuck about how her own kid was to be treated. If she really wanted to be certain its medical neds wewre always met until death she would never have farmed the kid out beyond her own control.
Shes a lying sack of shit……………
So just out of interest, are there armed guards or not?
Was Triggs lying or telling the truth?
mind you I haven’t actually read it but I have read that’s its terrible and she is of questionable character ……
Yeah how dare she say anything against these fantastically , functional and visionary gods that can fix stuff with just the utterance of a mere three words we all worship as a government….
She should have released it in the middle of an election so these lies would be buried in the victory dance of the LNP prophets… who could have used it as a political mace to thash all detractors to rise like a golden phoenix
After all these emperors, knights and Princes have provided no surprises and kept all their promises…… of gold silver and ritches
Thank you for your kind words on my return. LOL
I was a bit concerned about the PM during my absence. On 27 January a kindly Vietnamese man who supplements his income out of selling snake poo ( yes not a Snake Oil Salesman but a Snake Poo Salesman) gave me a very rough translation of what he thought Mr Abbott had done on Australia Day.
Talk about something getting very lost in translation.
Via very faltering English he told me much to my shock that………
“”Your number one man Mr Abbott…………………he appoint Queen of England as Australian of the Year”
Upon hearing that he had “merely” knighted Prince Phillip I felt a great sense of relief
I’ve never been to an Australian Detention Centre … (I’ve been to jails and prison farms and mental facilities) … but every photo, every video and every news story I seen and/or read reminds me of … a jail …
If there are guards – armed or otherwise – a fence with a locked gate and limited facilities and people are held in that place at the whim of the government … without free entry or exit … its a jail/prison/gaol …
I have seen … (ToM and ToSY will be hovering – just typo lads, settle down)
“”Thank you for your kind words on my return.””
It hasn’t been quite the same without you.
#doesthathelp?
Well looks like wally’s back.
Glad to hear that the reports of your demise have been exaggerated wally.
Of course, that joy is tempered against the fact that …….. Well looks like wally’s back. 😉
And for someone who claims the moral high ground about the treatment of children she didn’t sem to give a flying fuck about how her own kid was to be treated.
This would be why I take such offense to posters like sb misrepresenting the facts, because this doesn’t represent the events in any way whatsoever, yet now it gains legs and grows in infamy. Perhaps you are able to explain the WHY of sb’s claim that the matter of Trigg’s feeling that she shouldn’t raise her severely handicapped daughter indicates that she is not a “good person”? And with the recognition that your statement is … welll …. bullshit
Was Triggs lying or telling the truth?
Do you really think that “detention Centers” don’t have armed guards? Do they keep the “visitors” in line with “focus room”?
http://enpassant.com.au/2014/08/24/pamela-curr-no-armed-guards-for-asylum-seeker-children-in-detention/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_syndrome
The right wing shock-jock-in-print, piers akerman’s only excuse for such gutter journalism is this:
…Had an appointee of a conservative government made such a statement, he or she would unquestionably have been hounded relentlessly by the ABC and the Fairfax press…
BS, that’s his excuse, his pretence, a manufactured accusation so that he can sink the boot in. Anyone in the abc or fairfax with a modicum of understanding & decency would have acknowledged the personal anguish and would have made no judgement on the character of a person who made a personal choice that suited her circumstances, her psyche and ability to cope. Her marriage broke up too.
It is akerman who should resign.
Thuggish attacks on the Human Rights Commission should not be tolerated
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/16/we-should-not-tolerate-thuggish-attacks-on-the-human-rights-commission
…Government ministers have not even bothered to find some tenuous figleaf of principle to cover their political attack. They have resorted directly to personal smears on the commission’s leadership, questioning the integrity of respected public office-holders who dare criticise government policy. This is thuggish behaviour, and we should not tolerate it.
It is incredible that the Liberal party, who under Malcolm Fraser established the first incarnation of an independent human rights commission, has descended to this new nadir. Truly that party has lost its soul. What sort of liberals howl with rage at criticism from an independent body? What sort of conservatives sneer with contempt at the very idea that government ought to respect basic rights and freedoms?…
dirtbag tea party conservatives, that’s who.
Glad to know that you are alive and well walrus 🙂
“not that there is anything wrong with drinking and philandering”
Glad you cleared that up.
Nice to see Walrus back. A bit of restrained, sensible analysis for a change.
Jeez, just heard a promo for Q & A. Apparently Lisa Wilkinson is a “fearless advocate for women’s equality”.
Fearless?
What the fuck does she have to fear? She and her husband are white privelege personified. They both have soapboxes in the popular commercial media, and wouldn’t have been scared a second in their cushioned lives.
*privilege
Nice to see Walrus back. A bit of restrained, sensible analysis for a change.
Chuckle …
Couldn’t remember who Wilkinson was … so did a quick google … top Google “prompt” … “Lisa Wilkinson husband” …. so much for women’s equality … 😆
“Do you really think that “detention Centers” don’t have armed guards? Do they keep the “visitors” in line with “focus room”?”
Sorry not gunna play your games
It was your hero that made the claim. And I note that to my knowledge she never did “get back to them”
I’m at a disadvantage because I was out of the country for quite a while so I’m sure you can help me by providing a link to her confirming her statement or apologising
Otherwise she’s just another lying fucking grub of a leftist with stinking agenda !
“Nice to see Walrus back. A bit of restrained, sensible analysis for a change.”
Thanks ToSY I am trying desperately to be restrained in my language LOL
TomR
Do you regard an English Bobby awith a baton as “armed”. I don’t.
Someone with a carving knife is better armed.
It is very clear what that lying fucking grub Triggs meant when she used the term “armed”
That bullshit link about truncheons and handcuffs does not wash !
That’s gotta hurt!
Lance Armstrong loses court ruling, must pay back $12.87 million in Tour de France bonuses to sports insurance company
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-17/lance-armstrong-loses-ruling-must-pay-back-1287-million/6125146
Here’s a real plan to stop intergenerational theft:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-16/verrender-heres-a-real-plan-to-stop-intergenerational-theft/6113898
…It took a 16-year-old a couple of seconds last Friday to ram home the bitter reality of wealth transfers between the generations. And it is a problem that extends far beyond the mere balancing of the nation’s books…
What gets to me is how australians react with horror at any animal cruelty exposed such as on the 4 Corners Greyhound episode last night. Instantly officials start to do something or pretend that they will, in industries that have always been cruel to animals.
Yet asylum seekers can be killed, maimed and driven mad in detention [remember they have committed no crimes except seek asylum here] and children’s lives forever ruined and half the population are silent on the state sponsored human cruelty that is ongoing and equally horrific.
Forgotten children: I was shocked by what I saw:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-13/elliott-forgotten-children-i-was-shocked-by-what-i-saw/6092912
…This report paints a vivid picture of the toxic environment in detention centres. It gives a voice to the voiceless and it gives visibility to these forgotten children.
I was shocked to hear the Prime Minister describe the report as a “blatantly partisan politicised exercise”, saying the AHRC “ought to be ashamed of itself” and that he felt no guilt whatsoever about the findings.
The current detention policy was introduced by the previous government and perpetuated by the current government. The AHRC have merely done their job by speaking for those unable to do so and by providing credible data to inform future policy…
Do you regard an English Bobby awith a baton as “armed”. I don’t.
Neither do I. A person getting clubbed by one might disagree.
But I digress. I don’t recall Triggs claiming that Serco Guards were armed, only that there were armed guards as she went through gates (very “prisoney”). It is quite obvious that serco are not the only uniformed officers at these places. And these ones look VERY “armed” (of the non-batoned variety)
But, the accusation of “bias” has now come down to the interpretation of “armed”. And, there are enough photographs in that link of armed people surrounding the “visitors” to support that case I would have thought.
And, no matter how you interpret “armed”, it is a very simple fact that these centers are akin to jails. I recall when they opened the center up near Lobethal here in Adelaide that the main complaint from the usual suspects was the lack of fencing. Sorry, you put a fence around people to keep them in, I call that akin to a jail. You can use other words to more clearly define it, but it is very close to a jail.
I also note that you have been unwilling to explain just HOW Triggs giving her severely disabled child up to another family makes her somehow a poorer person? So I’m assuming that comment will just be used in future to be dragged out a cheap and nasty ad-hom the next time something unsavory is revealed by her.
There is one human rights commissioner who should get the sack.
She compared the detention centre to a jail and therefore to armed corrective services officers.
And those photos are Customs officers who have nothing to do with the detention centres she was speaking of and AFP officers who are flown in when there is a riot underway.
But she makes no mention of any riot when she visited.
So where are these armed guards she speaks of ????????????????????
She never retracted her statement because she knew she was bullshitting at the time.
She compared the detention centre to a jail and therefore to armed corrective services officers.
Wow, nice bow line 😉
Minister
Morrison
Madam President I have just asked you, you said that these places are prisons, now
you’ve been in prisons so you are telling me that the Phosphate Hill compound on
Christmas Island is the same as Long Bay Jail.
President
I am not saying they are equivalent, I’m saying that the present facilities
Whoops, looks like your bow line snapped.
“…There is one human rights commissioner who should get the sack…”
Heh, I just knew I’d see his face when I clicked on the link. The commissioner who is silent on human rights abuses and advocates for freedom of hate talk!
The guards are employed by Serco, Transfield and Group 4 etc.
I don’t think they’re armed.
And on whether she is a good woman enough I don’t have much of an opinion but I do note that by your standards she would make an excellent Commissioner for the Disabled
“I am not saying they are equivalent ”
That’s her back pedalling furiously from the original statenment
Triggs “”The people of Christmas Island are being detained in a prison effectively”
My bow line looks quite intact thankyou very much.
So where are these armed guards TomR ?
“”So where are these armed guards TomR ?””
“”The Australian Government has been paying the operational costs of the police mobile squad deployed on Manus Island, as part of the Regional Resettlement Agreement it signed with Papua New Guinea in 2013.
The mobile squad guards the detention centre and more recently the Manus Island provincial jail, where some asylum seekers who are considered “troublemakers” are being held without charge.
Mobile squad officers are often armed with assault rifles and tear gas guns, and have a reputation for brutality.
They act as private mini-armies for rent at logging camps and mining sites across PNG.
“Members of PNG’s notorious paramilitary police units (mobile squads), detention centre staff and local residents were implicated in excessive use of force in quelling a protest in February 2014,” Human Rights Watch said in their 2014 report on PNG.
During the February 2014 riots, the mobile squad were the only ones with firearms and were reported to have shot indiscriminately at people.””
http://pidp.eastwestcenter.org/pireport/2015/February/02-13-05.htm
That’s her back pedalling furiously from the original statenment
Really, one would call it clarifying, when morriscum tried to claim she meant “The Same As”
This is her original statement. Observe the bolding.
The people of Christmas Island are being detained in a prison effectively.
She didn’t say every guard was armed, she didn’t say specifically which ones were armed, only that there were armed guards. As the photos prove, this is shown to occur. Of course, maybe you can claim it was photoshopped while you frantically attempt to re-string your bow.
Someone needs to be a commissioner for the disabled and there needs to be one for aged care too. Not that anyone in govt wants to hear about their plight either.
I think there should be a RC into our duty of care provisions to people who are at their most vulnerable and needy. No good shooting the messengers. Out of sight, out of mind seems to be where australians want the uncomfortable truths.
Thanks reb, that clears up the armed guard and inappropriate use of force issue.
Of course they do it all, why would it be secret otherwise?
You’re welcome… 🙂
I think there should be a RC into our duty of care provisions to people who are at their most vulnerable and needy.
I AGREE!
I heard it being floated on the news last night that pensioners were getting an increase. The details though turned out that, in effect, pensioners are getting (or they are planning) a real world decrease as they want to tie it inflation rather than wages (?), but, for pensioners with investments, they were topping up (?) those investments by around $3 a fortnight (?) due to investments having a very poor rate of return in recent years.
So, hitting pensioners with no option, and rewarding those who were relying on “free market”
I don’t disagree with the idea of helping out those affected by the “free market”, but, I’m not one who pretends to approve completely of this elusive “free market” like the libs do. And, the fact that they are using this small one off top up to hit ALL pensioners ……
The mind boggles.
As I said, this is just what I have heard. I haven’t yet seen anything explained about it in print as of yet. This doesn’t mean it is not there.
Thanks reb,
I AGREE
btw, was there a generic thread, or shall we take this over with other random
shitissues?“”The Australian Government has been paying the operational costs of the police mobile squad deployed on Manus Island……………, “”
Triggs was speaking about armed guards on Christmas Island which is Australian territory. Manus Island is PNG which is its own sovereign state with its own rules about how the detention centres are run.
Where did I imply photoshop ?
Just verballing again I see. Nothing changes with you
“”……..she didn’t say specifically which ones were armed, only that there were armed guards. As the photos prove, this is shown to occur. ”
The photos prove that Customs Officers on boats are armed as are AFP officers. That’s not the Christmas Island detention centre she was referring to.
My bow line is still looking very taut.
Try harder TomR…………without the verballing
Triggs was speaking about armed guards on Christmas Island
And the AFP are armed guards.
And, I find it interesting that, in the broader context about it being “like” a jail, that your defense is that “not all the guards” have weapons.
I’m sorry, but, in addition to the fences, doesn’t the fact that you have guards at all lend itself to being “like” a jail ❓
Just verballing again I see.
Try reading before getting all defensive
maybe you can claim it was photoshopped
It’s called a hypothetical 😉
That’s not the Christmas Island detention centre she was referring to.
Is it not?
External Territories
The AFP provides community policing services to the Australian External Territories of Christmas Island, Norfolk Island, the Cocos (Keeling) Islands and Jervis Bay. AFP members at these locations perform a variety of policing and related functions. These include: Australian customs; border protection and immigration functions; responsibilities for land and maritime search and rescue operations and coordination.
http://www.afp.gov.au/policing/international-deployment-group.aspx
“”And the AFP are armed guards. “”
Oh…….so now you are claiming the AFP is guarding the centre and not Serco
Try harder
“”or shall we take this over with other random “issues?””
Oh, let’s just let this one go wherever it wants to go…
“”Is it not?””
No its not
Manus Is. is PNG
So would Triggs make a good Disability Commissioner TomR.
Ïs she “good”” enough for that position ?
Do you regard an English Bobby awith a baton as “armed”. I don’t.
WOW! That’s showing real iggorance … what if you didn’t have knife?
BTW … I’d still back the rozzer with a baton against you with a knife, Wally …
“”HR President Triggs raises concern about the conditions on Christmas Island, saying it is a four-hour flight from Western Australia with a landing strip that is sometimes unsafe to land planes. She says she has been there three times and there were armed guards.
Bowles says: “We do not have armed guards, President. I’d like you to acknowledge that.”
Triggs promises to check.
Bowles continues: “I would like you to check that and I’d like you to retract that.” (Text from direct report in the Guardian.)
However as we know in all refugee and asylum seeker matters, truth is a flexible matter. SERCO detention guards are not armed with guns but they are not the only guards with whom children in detention have to deal. Many of the others are armed with guns, batons, sprays and other pieces of equipment .
From the moment that they arrive on Christmas Island, children are witness to and subject to a continual show of force. On arrival both children and their parents are searched and handled by armed Customs and Navy officers.””
http://enpassant.com.au/2014/08/24/pamela-curr-no-armed-guards-for-asylum-seeker-children-in-detention/
so now you are claiming the AFP is guarding the centre and not Serco
See, that’s how verballing works 😉
Perhaps you can highlight where I said that?
Ïs she “good”” enough for that position ?
I honestly have no idea about her qualifications in that area wally, so really cannot say one way or another.
Just a small but possibly relevant point…
Walrus have you actually read the report?
Members of PNG’s notorious paramilitary police units (mobile squads)
Don’t know about now … but called Force 10 when I lived in Port Moresby … shoot first ask questions later …
“”Is it not?””
No its not
LOL! Wally’s back! LOL!
“…Manus Island is PNG which is its own sovereign state with its own rules about how the detention centres are run…”
Yes, to our shame. We pay them to brutalise people, then pretend it’s nothing to do with us and hide behind ‘sovereignty’.
We fund them and we make the policy.
Of course big razor wire fences that you’re not allowed to leave, are detained by force in, prisons. Lots of spin and doublespeak doesn’t change that.
“…….truth is a flexible matter.””
Only it seems when Triggs and TomR get to it
“SERCO detention guards are not armed with guns ”
Its pretty clear that Triggs was equalling the Detention Centre to a jail where correction officers do have guns.
We are talking about armed guards clearly in the sense of firearms.
To nuance otherwise is inded being flexible with the truth of what she said and was implying and she knew that by her faltering response to the Secretary of Immigration when challenged.
If she was not implying that why has she not come out with her proof. She’s chosen to shutup rather than continue to make an idiot of herself.
“Perhaps you can highlight where I said that?”
It was clear by implying it via a photo of a “”gunned up”” AFP officer
With apologies to AA Milne:
Gillian Triggs
Cared not two figs
If refugees suffered or died
But when Labor was dead
She raised up her head
And cried and cried and lied.
She’s chosen to shutup rather than continue to make an idiot of herself.
Of course, the other possibility is she is just getting on with her job, instead of playing word games like you are.
Keep restringing your bow wally, the target will find it sooner or later. 😉
Its pretty clear that Triggs was equalling the Detention Centre to a jail where correction officers do have guns.
It’s pretty clear that when it comes to reading things into peoples words, you are not worried about adding in any words that might help your case 😉
“It’s pretty clear that when it comes to reading things into peoples words, you are not worried about adding in any words that might help your case”
A compliment from the master verbaliser. 🙂
It was clear by implying it via a photo of a “”gunned up”” AFP officer
From that, you get this
Oh…….so now you are claiming the AFP is guarding the centre and not Serco
That bow is getting a real workout today wally. Take sb’s advice, and just rhyme lines, that way, it’s obvious you are just making shit up for fun. 😉
A compliment from the master verbaliser.
Credit where it is due sb 🙂
“”….it’s obvious you are just making shit up for fun””
Sorry…………you better check your mirrors.
You linked the photo of AFP and Customs officers in the context of Triggs statement.
How about you now link to where she made a statement in relation to “getting back”” to the Secretary of the Immigration Department.
And of course we also have her denying in front of a House Committee having spoken to 2 members of the ALP about her enquiry only to suddenly remember speaking to them after being caught up in her own lie.
Whatever merit the report may have had has been utterly destroyed by her biased approach to its preparation.
The lying sack of shit should resign.
You linked the photo of AFP and Customs officers in the context of Triggs statement.
You mean, a pictur of armed guards? Funny. You claimed there were no armed guards on Christmas Island. All I did was show a picture of armed guards on Christmas Island.
“getting back”” to the Secretary of the Immigration Department.
If they really want to make an issue, of course, morriscum can. Instead, they simply attack from cowards castle. Why don’t they force the issue, otherwise, it is just another empty rhetoric in their attack
The lying sack of shit should resign.
I AGREE (we had moved back to tim wilson there I assume 😉 )
And of course we also have her denying in front of a House Committee having spoken to 2 members of the ALP
Don’t know about this one. Is it in the blurb you put up, or elsewhere?
John Oliver (yes, of The Bugle fame) uses Nanny McRoxon to help blast the child killer companies.
“”You claimed there were no armed guards on Christmas Island””
Verballing again.
We are referring to the Detention Centre………………………but you already know that.
Who knows if there are Chubb armed guards on the Island guarding cash transfers. But they are not what we are talking about.
Keep wiggling……………..it suits your lack of cred.
“”Don’t know about this one. Is it in the blurb you put up, or elsewhere?””
Of you don’t……………………LOL
Otherwise it would weaken your argument that she is not biased and a lying sack of shit
“”If they really want to make an issue””
It was her that said she would.
Triggs was speaking about armed guards on Christmas Island which is Australian territory.
Just to use your words 😉
It was her that said she would.
Do you know she hasn’t?
“Do you know she hasn’t?””
Not according to the HRC website. Have a look for yourself
Have a look for yourself
So you don’t know. Not that it matters. They asked her to retract it, she didn’t, if they want to take issue, then they should. It is up to them if they disagree.
I would have thought photographic evidence of armed guards on Christmas Island would have been enough, but I guess not
“I would have thought photographic evidence of armed guards on Christmas Island would have been enough”
LOL……………………….you link to some random nutcase who follows the Socialist Alliance and posts some random photos of what could be any armed AFP or Customs Officer in any location on the planet and you believe her when she claims its from Christmas Island detention centre ?
That’s your evidence……………….?
“”So you don’t know””
Well…………..Google it and nothing comes up.
So she cant even be trusted to follow through with her commitment.
What an A Grade Arsehole she is
That’s your evidence……………….?
Of course, Border Security are armed everywhere except Christmas Island ROFL
That’s your bow string going “SNAP” 😆
There you go again……………………..but we are not talking about Border Security . We are talking about Detention Centre staff.
You need some more mud to put in the waters at this rate.
Stocks must be getting low by now
This is from your own nutcase side of politics……………….
“SERCO guards are never armed with guns but they carry flexi cuffs and night torches which can be used as truncheons………………………….When there is trouble the AFP may enter the camps. they are always armed with guns batons spray the works.”
“At the Airport and all over the island armed AFP officers are in evidence.”
Well of course they fucking are. AFP officers are always armed just like state police officers.
But Triggs was not referring to the AFP as they do not guard the detention centre
But Triggs was not referring to the AFP as they do not guard the detention centre
So, A AFP officer couldn’t be in the detention center (read .. jail)
Even though they provide support and assistance for serco. SNAP goes another.
There you go again…………………when did she refer to the AFP
Cant you read ?
“When there is trouble the AFP may enter the camps. ………………..”
My bow string is lookin” very taut indeed.
Keep wriggling……………it suits you
I’m guessing this means that they are planning to include the family home in the assets pension test, going on their recent history
Social Services Minister Scott Morrison says the government wants to make it easier for older people to sell their homes for income in retirement but has ruled out including the family home in the assets pension test.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/we-wont-include-family-home-in-assets-pension-test-scott-morrison-20150217-13gnek.html
I also note htat the lolstarlian was declaring “Class Warfare” this morning.
They really are a caricature of stoopid.
Not fair: welfare for the rich
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/not-fair-welfare-for-the-rich/story-fn59nsif-1227222009855
I didn’t read it, life’s too short
when did she refer to the AFP
She didn’t she just said “guards”
Could have been serco, could have been AFP, could have been anyone in a uniform with a gun.
Well, I had no idea!! I now learn that Melbourne is like a prison!! We have to get past armed “guards” at intersections to get across the road!!!
“Could have been serco, could have been AFP, could have been anyone in a uniform with a gun.”
Serco are not armed with guns and the AFP attends riots/disturbances only.
Clearly you have run out of mud for the waters.
I now learn that Melbourne is like a prison
I think you meant a prison is like Melbourne yomm 😉
and the AFP attends riots/disturbances only.
So, considering there are almost always disturbances of some kind happening, the chances that the AFP will be there is quite high, wouldn’t you agree?
And it is nice to see you finally admit that there is the possibility that Triggs did in fact see armed guards during here visits there.
The MCG is like a prison!! People have to get past armed “guards” to get to the footy!!
People only think they’re free to come and go at Sydney Airport, but is it like a prison!! People have to get past armed “guards” to get in and out!!
The MCG is like a prison!!
Have you been there for a Collingwood game? I can see the resemblance 😉
Mind you, the ‘armed guards’ don’t try to stop you when you leave at three quarter time 😆
but is it like a prison!
Have you flown cattle class lately?
Now you are just speculating……………!
“”And it is nice to see you finally admit that there is the possibility that Triggs did in fact see armed guards during here visits there.””
Keep wrigglin”
“”So, considering there are almost always disturbances of some kind happening””
So the joint is in a constant state of disturbance is it.
Of course you have a link for that.
Now you are just speculating……………!
Actually, that’s what you were doing when you called her a liar. As has been shown, the AFP have officers (at a minimum) who attend the centers who are armed. That alone shows that the centers have armed guards.
Pretty icy around here … traffics going nowhere I see …
traffics going nowhere I see
Round and round and round it goes ….
,”” the AFP have officers (at a minimum) who attend the centers who are armed.””
So now Triggs is visiting during a riot whilst the centre is in a lockdown.
Keeeeep wriggling.
We’re Calling It: Professor Gillian Triggs Is A C-Word
https://newmatilda.com/2015/02/17/were-calling-it-professor-gillian-triggs-c-word
…Someone has to say it. And it’s Mathew Kenneally, who finds the courage to go where no man – with the exception of every male Coalition MP – has ever gone before.
Gillian Triggs has done it again. Her report, The Forgotten Children, detailing the psychological damage caused to children in detention, has unleashed yet another wave of hurt among Federal Coalition MPs. I for one think its time something is done to stop this woman from menacing these clearly vulnerable men…
Procedural unfairness should never trump children’s suffering
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/procedural-unfairness-should-never-trump-childrens-suffering-20150213-13e0ie.html
…The difficulty is that to the unaccustomed ear, it sounded very much like the Prime Minister was more worried about the politics of Professor Triggs than he was about the suffering of any children. Reasonable though his anger might be, one suspects that in the great moral triage ward, a frightened and brutalised child should always be seen before the politician nursing a first-degree tactical burn.
The odd thing is that there is plenty of tactical ground for the Prime Minister to join Professor Triggs, condemn the circumstances that developed under Labor, and mount his case. But – ensnarled in an increasingly bitter dispute with the authority – he went straight to DEFCON 1…
Over the Sydney sky today.. Someone upstairs is unimpressed 😒
I’ll take that as a ‘no’ with a ‘im just an obstinant rusted ass trumpet ‘ then shall I.
So now Triggs is visiting during a riot whilst the centre is in a lockdown.
Keep verballing 😉
Tony Abbott has made life 0.002 per cent per annum easier for all oppressed people: Indigenous Australians, refugees, LGBTI, women, and the disabled. The only oppressed person’s life who has been made harder is Joe Hockey, who is looking for $7 billion (and counting) to replace the tax.
😆 loved it AO 😉
From your second link AO
It is a reasonable point, because of the policy reversals and cockups made by the Rudd and Gillard governments, none could qualify as quite so bleakly dreadful as what they did on immigration policy; a magnanimous unwinding of the Howard government’s Pacific Solution, followed by a torrent of boat arrivals, and culminating in the ignominious, haphazard reinstallation of the brutal infrastructure of which Labor had begun its term complaining. Tens of thousands of adults and children bundled into improvised accommodation by a panicky Labor government; that is both the context and the driver of the horrors to be found in Professor Triggs’ report.
Which makes you wonder just why the libs are so hell bent on attacking Triggs?
Calling out the war on doubt.
ABBOTT DOES A DE NIRO:
http://thehoopla.com.au/abbott-wages-doubtful-war/
…We already know Prime Minister Tony Abbott is not one for subtlety. And that desperate times call for desperate measures. But the PM’s declaration last weekend of a “war on doubt” took unashamed manipulation of the Australian public to a whole new level…
Hey Kamahl, where the fcuk`s the `rostrum` gone. lt seems ya`slacking off while reb`s away kicking his coffee habit with crystal 🙂
…He was quick to distance himself from authorship but when I asked him what he thought about the attacks on his boss, he said he would make no comment either on the record or off the record. He told me to ring the commission’s media team. They had, he said, the “freedom” to work on Sundays…
…I hear Gillian Triggs comes to work every day, smart, sharp, resilient. She has not let any of Abbott’s attacks undermine her professionalism. I have no idea how she copes but I admire her and I sincerely hope she outlasts both this government and the man they mistakenly dubbed the freedom commissioner…
we have a week to come up with a name for tony abbotts security announcement on Monday
easy … Kristallnacht!
” I have no idea how she copes but I admire her……………….”
ROFLMAO
Perhaps a salary of $400K p.a. helps
The blueties get a slap down from the UN
The United Nations has rushed to the defence of Gillian Triggs, urging the federal government to “respect the rule” of law in the protection of human rights and the Australian Human Rights Commission president’s “high reputation”.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/united-nations-group-defends-underfire-gillian-triggs-20150217-13gq0h.html
They really do carry on like a bunch of, spoilt brat, Private School Bullies …
During a rowdy committee session, chairman LNP senator Ian MacDonald condemned the HRC report on young asylum seekers in detention — but then admitted he hadn’t read it.
“I haven’t bothered to read the final report because I think it is partisan,” Senator MacDonald told the hearing.
There was outrage from non-Liberal senators on the committee when Liberal Barry O’Sullivan jokingly interrupted to say, “I thought you might like to hear a male voice.”
http://www.news.com.au/national/ag-brandis-warns-not-everyone-in-the-government-supports-the-hrc/story-fncynjr2-1227236992340