Skip to content
Advertisements

Tony Abbott’s Good Government just “Recycled Rubbish”

March 2, 2015

931048-29e71b02-c01c-11e4-a0d8-62fd782d4449

Tony Abbott has characterised his new “leadership style” as “recycled rubbish” in the wake of a new Fairfax poll that shows the beleaguered Prime Minister regaining some ground against Bill Shorten and the Federal Labor Party.

In a result that’s likely to boost the Prime Minister’s confidence and bemuse others, the Abbott government received a bounce in the polls and is now trailing the ALP by just 49 to 51.

The result represents a stunning recovery by the government, which since announcing a commitment to delivering “good government” just four weeks ago has appeared at its most divided and shambolic.

On a personal approval rating, Mr Abbott has also “improved” with his minus 38 per cent rating last month closing by 8 points to now be at a less severe minus 30. That is, 32 per cent of respondents approved of his performance whereas 62 per cent did not.

Mr Abbott laughed off the latest round of leadership speculation on Sunday, amid talk of a second spill motion.

He said the matter had been settled by the party room three weeks ago and any such talk was just “recycled rubbish” echoing many voters assessment of his own political performance.

 

 

 

 

 

Advertisements
442 Comments leave one →
  1. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 2, 2015 11:32 am

    “let’s put it in the bag and get rid of it,” he said on Sunday.”

    A lot of us were thinking that as we watched the interview. A prescient premonition of his own future.

  2. TB Queensland permalink
    March 2, 2015 11:51 am

    Oh, goody! Another thread on The Mad Abbott!

    “… and bemuse others … ” – I must say I’m one of the “others” :mrgreen:… you’d almost think the 1406 members of the cohort had been handpicked!

  3. TB Queensland permalink
    March 2, 2015 11:52 am

    I must say I’m one of the “others” :mrgreen: … you’d almost think the 1406 members of the cohort had been handpicked!

    See I can do it!

  4. March 2, 2015 12:23 pm

  5. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 2, 2015 1:00 pm

    The end will be even more painful for Abbott after this little bounce

  6. March 2, 2015 1:41 pm

    Well this is embarrassing…

  7. TB Queensland permalink
    March 2, 2015 3:11 pm

    New security laws?

    So who’s fooling who?

    “Don’t worry about your conversations being tracked and monitored,” Wickr’s app store description boasts.

    “Millions of Top-Secret Messages are served each day in almost every country in the world.”

    Launched by a group of security experts in 2012, the Wickr app uses “cryptographic hashing” to “forensically wipe” messages after they expire.

    Enabling encrypted text messages, photos and videos to be sent anonymously, the app allows messages to selfdestruct within a time set by the sender, and strips messages of metadata, leaving no traceable evidence. Messages are deleted from Wickr’s server on delivery

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/wickr-app-the-snapchat-for-grown-ups-that-federal-politicians-are-using-to-secretly-discuss-leadership/story-e6frfrnr-1227244506733

  8. TB Queensland permalink
    March 2, 2015 3:13 pm

    The end will be even more painful for Abbott after this little bounce

    Must be very disappointing for you, ToM after all the support you’ve given to him too … 😦

  9. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 2, 2015 4:06 pm

    There should have been a censure motion against the ALP when the ALP/Greens were locking all those kids up.

  10. TB Queensland permalink
    March 2, 2015 5:17 pm

    Toilette,

    I used to think that the government ministers all lied – just to keep people quite – silly move the truth will always out – although some drongos will just get even more confused …

    Then I thought, no, these pricks are just incompetent … and don’t actually realise it ie (1)”unconscious incompetence” … to get to (4)”unconscious competence” they’ll need to be in “uncontrol” for about 50 years I reckon …

    (For those interested — the middle stages are (2)”conscious incompetence” – they realise that they don’t know what they are doing … and then (3)”conscious competence” they are competent but still have to think about what they are doing …)

  11. March 2, 2015 7:41 pm

    Just waiting for Neil to make it the fault of ALP voters again.

  12. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 2, 2015 8:44 pm

    “Just waiting for Neil to make it the fault of ALP voters again.”

    Yep.

    And it will happen again if labor is voted back in. labor supporters judgement is not very good.

    Remember when Labor said it was push/pull/whatever factors that all of a sudden appeared under Labors watch making all these boat people turn up.

    Well Morrison proved that wrong. The boats were stopped and Labor was wrong saying it could not be done.

    It is another question as to whether we should stop the boats. I believe we should.

  13. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 2, 2015 9:13 pm

    Wow, just wow!.

    PINs changed after laptop bought for Sydney QC David Rofe:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/pins-changed-after-laptop-bought-for-sydney-qc-david-rofe/story-fn59noo3-1227243883206

    …THE bank account PINs of a prominent, elderly Sydney bar­rister with dementia have been changed after the union corruption whistleblower Kathy Jackson used one of his accounts to buy a laptop and…

  14. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 2, 2015 9:25 pm

  15. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 2, 2015 9:29 pm

    He’s come a long way but still remembers how hard it was for him. The other parliamentarians could do with some genuine humility.

  16. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 2, 2015 9:52 pm

    Too many are missing out.

  17. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 2, 2015 10:00 pm

    Very nice!

    Under the sun: Australia’s largest solar farm set to sprout in a Queensland field:
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/02/under-the-sun-australias-largest-solar-farm-set-to-sprout-in-a-queensland-field?CMP=share_btn_tw

    …A sea of glass panels, to be located at Bulli Creek on Queensland’s Darling Downs, could be capable of cranking out two gigawatts of power within eight years. That is equivalent to one fifth of the current total renewable energy target for the entire country in a single power station. It is also more power than any coal fired station in Queensland can currently muster…

  18. March 2, 2015 10:02 pm

    The cantankerous stupidity of Palmer knows no bounds… Abstinence is a free hall pass FFS? 🙄
    Great Article from Muir.. good on him.. thanks AO

  19. March 2, 2015 10:08 pm

  20. March 2, 2015 10:25 pm

    “Remember when Labor said it was push/pull/whatever factors that all of a sudden appeared under Labors watch making all these boat people turn up.”

    And what exactly does that piece of repeated, distractionary polemic propaganda have to do with Joe “cigars” Hockey misrepresenting ‘news’ about wages (un)growth, Neil?

  21. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 2, 2015 10:33 pm

    I thought you were talking about my post at 4.06PM re kids in detention.

    I must admit i was amazed at the hatred shown in the comments section on that article about the slow wages growth.

    Beats me why close to half the population loath the Coalition. I would hate to see the comments if the Coalition stuffed the budget like Labor did.

  22. March 2, 2015 11:20 pm

  23. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 3, 2015 10:01 am

    A month or so ago the Abbott government was down and out in the polls. But the last two polls show a puzzling resurgence in the Coalition 2PP vote. Puzzling that is to the beltway bovver brigade. The scent of blood in the water sent them into a frenzy of irrelevant hyperventilation. The question of whether to believe the self-serving lies of political hack Gillian Triggs over the word of career public servant Chris Moraitis has been a cause of throbbing tumescence in that great jerking circle that is the commentariat. But it is a question of little interest to most voters.

    The problem is that this took enormous pressure off the government. Instead of focusing on the lies, broken promises, economic confusion, Senate gridlock or sheer incompetence the media feasted on a trivial story of little or no relevance to the majority of voters. To the extent Triggs was an issue for them at all, they might have given a quick glance at the big picture – Libs, for once, actually delivered on a promise and stopped the boats and a Labor appointee attacks the Libs, having done nothing to embarrass Labor (who actually actually created the mess.)

    The ALP, by investing a couple of weeks of sneering and jeering in this issue, has taken the pressure off the real issues. The only substantive matter to get much airtime was the expansion of government surveillance and on that the ALP disgraced itself by agreeing with the Coalition. Turnbull’s attempt to ape Rudd’s treachery only helped Abbott. Abbott looked better than he has for a while seeing off the attempted coup by the pusillanimous poseur. Turnbull will have to work harder to strangle that cat. Smug, smarmy and born to rule won’t cut it.

    There is the world of difference between this and the Prince Philip knighthood debacle. The public could quickly grasp that this demonstrated how out of touch Abbott was and have a good belly-laugh at his expense. It was the moment to keep rubbing Abbott’s face in his real failings. Instead, the combination of Turnbull’s arrogance and the flatulent chattering class getting off on their own vapours gave Abbott the chance to hang tough and have a few weeks with his feet removed from the fire of his own failings, at least as far as ordinary voters are concerned.

    As the budget approaches and the trial balloons are floated the incompetence of the government will again be front and centre. The gap in the polls will widen and Abbott will get the scrutiny and wrath he deserves. The lesson is to keep an unrelenting focus on the substantive failures and don’t get side-tracked by irrelevant issues.

  24. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 10:19 am

    over the word of career public servant Chris Moraitis

    Wasn’t gretch a “career public servant “?

    a trivial story of little or no relevance to the majority of voters.

    That may be true, but a baseless attack on someone in that position should be highlighted, so the bullies will not get away with it. I did note that brandis getting censured(?) didn’t make the news. Not a hanging offense, but it might be in this case.

    As the budget approaches and the trial balloons are floated the incompetence of the government will again be front and centre.

    Where Labor can attack them again over their unfair budgets. And, this time, with policies on the table that show a path forward from the economic mess hockey has inflicted.

    But, they are correct to defend the treatment of Triggs. Even the aforementioned gretch wasn’t harried and hassled like Triggs, who is only doing her job, has been by the cabal of blue ties threatened by anyone not of their brigade.

  25. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 10:35 am

    Well what can you say,sb …?

    … not sure who the “beltway bovver brigade” or “flatulent chattering class” refers to (the meedjay is my guess) …

    The lesson is to keep an unrelenting focus on the substantive failures and don’t get side-tracked by irrelevant issues.

    I do agree. And then I keep thinking – but what is the goal? To see The Mad Abbott defrocked? To what end? Who picks up the reins? Would it be any better? Would it be any fairer? Honest, open, communicative, involving, nation building?

    And I think, competency, communication and honesty would only be marginally better if Labor were to be elected next year … I must say too, that the attempted urban legend that the LNP is better at “economic management” has been well and truly blown out of the water in the last eighteen months … (rusted ons will always be rusted ons anyway)

    Truth is this government spent more on weaponry in 2014 With taxpayers forking out $29 billion this financial year than ever before … and after watching Gallipoli last night (the attack on the Nek and Lone Pine) I’m not convinced the people running the government and military have actually changed much a century later!

  26. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 10:38 am

    Even the aforementioned gretch wasn’t harried and hassled like Triggs,

    Gretch was another Brough intrigue cooked up with others (Payne, Abbott?) to topple Turnbull … a similar technique later used on Slipper via Ashby …

  27. March 3, 2015 10:45 am

    “”a couple of weeks of sneering and jeering””

    Good to see you running with Abbott’s latest three word slogan (but you left out “smearing”)…

    Another reading of the slight recovery in the polls is that most of those surveyed figured Abbott was already dead man walking and would be gone by the end of this week in #Libspill2

    I doubt that the slight lift in the polls is hardly a ringing endorsement of Abbott’s “performance” (despite him using it internally to the contrary) particularly when his personal approval rating is at minus 62 per cent.

  28. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:09 am

    I was just trying to work out why the Libs had a couple of good polls recently. I’m not to going to engage further on Triggs because it is a distraction and I’ve said enough already.

    At least Shorten is trying to get on with tax talk. Bashing the corporates always plays well.

  29. March 3, 2015 11:16 am

    “”Bashing the corporates always plays well.””

    So does bashing the Unions, apparently (and the workers)…

    Employer groups and the building industry watchdog have issued stern warnings that anyone planning to unlawfully take part in strike action on Wednesday faced fines of more than $10,000.

    Fair Work Building and Construction director Nigel Hadgkiss said workers who attend needed to obtain their bosses’ permission for leave, and warned employers not to pay workers for any time spent on strike. Mr Hadgkiss said his agency would not hesitate to bring people before the court.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/nationwide-unions-day-of-action-against–governments-workplace-relations-agenda-20150302-13sf1t.html

  30. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:18 am

    Bashing the corporates always plays well.

    “Cause it needs to be done! Its actually work not play … if more politicians got on with the job of governing and making useful laws … instead of concentrating on politics and the next election … then politics would not be a issue … the results would …

    Businesses that concentrate on making money instead of providing quality goods and/or service generally fail …

    (Substitute politics for money … )

  31. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:19 am

    I’m not to going to engage further on Triggs because it is a distraction and I’ve said enough already.

    Except to constantly call her a liar, which you cannot support.

    But, apart from that, you won’t engage ROFL

  32. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:25 am

    “The government will leave the responsibility of setting modern awards including penalty rates and the minimum wage to the Fair Work Commission,” Employment Minister Eric Abetz said. “The ACTU should engage responsibly with these inquiries and not engage in campaigns of distraction.”

    But they will attack it any other way possible (and let’s not rule out erica betz lying about directly getting involved in wages either)

    Contracted cleaners at the Department of Immigration and Border Protection are receiving $2 an hour less, even though Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Employment Minister Eric Abetz said this would not happen.

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/public-service/prime-minister-tony-abbotts-absolutely-crystal-clear-claim-shattered-20150302-13rwok.html

    They’ve made lying a part of everyday life in this grubmint

  33. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:29 am

    “Good to see you running with Abbott’s latest three word slogan (but you left out “smearing”)…”

    Now that I google it, I see what you mean! I like assonance. If I’d thought of it I might have included smearing. 🙂

    Abbott will be gone by the next election, although I’ll be happy enough if he stays to get his comeuppance.

    With Gillard I got to the point of feeling sorry for her. As I recall you advised me not to be so soft on her. I’m a long way from feeling sorry for Abbott.

    But that doesn’t mean I’ve suddenly developed a taste for Shorten or for lefty media groupthinkers. Especially when they spend way too much time on side issues.

    All it takes for this government to go down in flames is their own lies and incompetence and they have it in spades. Budget season is just going to highlight their economic shortcomings. And that moron Hockey is going to be in the limelight trying to sell us bullshit. Or maybe he will produce a brilliant budget that sets us on the road to full employment, economic growth and shrinking debt. Or not.

  34. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:31 am

    Unlawful strikes … brings back memories …

    A worker has the right to withdraw his/her labour – it is a human right.

    Unless a government makes “useless” laws …

  35. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:34 am

    Cannot believe some of the comments.

    So the Coalition has failed because they did not fix up Labors budget mess in their first budget.

    Fact is it will take years to clean up Labors budget mess. And the horrible possibility is that the mess Labor made is so great it will be incapable of cleaning up.

  36. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:38 am

    “Unless a government makes “useless” laws …”

    Even so the ILO Charter (to which Australia is a signatory) … states that withdrawal of labour is a human right …

    “The right to strike is one of the essential means available to workers and their organisations for the promotion and protection of their economic and social interests” (1983).

  37. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:39 am

    Anyone got insect spray handy?

  38. March 3, 2015 11:40 am

    “” that doesn’t mean I’ve suddenly developed a taste for Shorten “”

    Me neither. He’s insipid.

  39. March 3, 2015 11:40 am

    “”the horrible possibility is that the mess Labor made is so great it will be incapable of cleaning up.””

    Well I guess that means you’ll just have to kill yourself then.

  40. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:44 am

    You are very tempting tart Troll R, but I’m not falling for it.

    In the case of tax reform, I haven’t seen the detail of Shorten’s proposal or how it differs from Hockey’s attempt to cash in the same issue.

    I would note, however, that we have had thin capitalisation rules since the 1980’s to address the problem of repatriating profits as interest on inter-corporate debt. I don’t know how much is to be gained from further tweaking those rules.

    “So does bashing the Unions, apparently”

    I’m all for bashing corrupt unions. I certainly don’t like Andrews’ repeal of controls on the CMFEU/Comancheros cartel.

    In less than three months in power, Mr Andrews and Labor have made a slew of changes that directly benefit unions.

    One of the most damaging decisions Labor has taken is to scrap the state’s building code, which includes drug and alcohol testing on construction sites.

    Funnily enough it is simply a case of follow the money. Electoral funding is a corrupting influence as ICAC has shown in NSW. There is something wrong with our system when you have this sort of stuff going on:

    UNIONS including the militant CFMEU donated more than $1.6 million to the ­Victorian Labor Party as it prepared to battle the Coalition in last year’s state election.

    Victorian Labor received hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations from unions including the CFMEU, NUW, AWU and SDA.

    At the same time businesses, big tobacco and gaming giants donated to the Liberal Party.

  41. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:52 am

    but I’m not falling for it.

    Of course not, once bitten ………… 😉

  42. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:52 am

    “So the Coalition has failed because they did not fix up Labors budget mess in their first budget.”

    The coalition has failed because, among other things, it has broken its promises, it has a completely incoherent economic policy which is being implemented by morons. What on earth did you think would happen!? That people would jump for joy when they realised that Abbott’s promises, including his promise not to break his promises, were all part of an elaborate sick joke? Should people be grateful they were taken in by a the desperate spin of a fuckwit who would do and say anything to get power? Did Abbott learn absolutely nothing from the fools he replaced? Do you think people should be overjoyed that debt is going up, that unemployment is going up and that the economy is barely croaking along?

  43. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 3, 2015 12:02 pm

    Even so the ILO Charter

    That reminds me. That is why i got kicked out of AIMN. WE found the reference where working one hour per week became the definition of unemployment/employment.

    http://ilo.org/global/statistics-and-databases/meetings-and-events/international-conference-of-labour-statisticians/WCMS_221500/lang–en/index.htm

    From the first PDF file “II. Labour force, employment, unemployment and underemployment ” page 41

    “145. In order to account fully for underemployment and casual wage labourers, the term “some work” in the definition should be interpreted as including all persons who worked at least one hour during the reference period.

    Lefties say that Howard introduced this definition to make his unemployment rate look better.

    But working one hour per week to be classified as employed was defined by the ILO in 1982. And if it was defined in 1982 it most probably was in use a long time before that.

  44. March 3, 2015 12:27 pm

    Cannot believe some of the comments.

    You choose to version truth, we choose to remind you you’re a trolling cunt..simple really

    Well I guess that means you’ll just have to kill yourself then.

    neiln@gmail.com Neil of Sydney is dead to me 🙂

  45. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 12:32 pm

    …A worker has the right to withdraw his/her labour – it is a human right…

    Exactly TB, the pendulum has swung too far when the bosses control whether a person can withdraw their own labour or not, it is what they sell in exchange for their wage.
    They must think like slave owners these days, that they own people, body and soul.

    Wasn’t gretch a “career public servant “?

    Important point. Why didn’t that go the AFP & DPP?

    These partisan public servants who don’t behave in a professional manner should be made an example of. No getting off an offence with all their entitlements intact by claiming illness/ insanity or “lost my notes” when everyone knows they have acted unlawfully. The libs don’t care about them, they will use them up and toss them aside when they are no longer of any benefit to them, broken people. The PS’s who allow themselves to be used as party political players to sabotage and destroy the careers of others should be charged and made to front the courts when they have acted unlawfully. They should be disgraced and sacked.
    Chiefs of staff should not be exempted from public scrutiny.

    …I was just trying to work out why the Libs had a couple of good polls recently…

    Wrapping himself in al those flags and uniforms, the desperate use of national security scaremongering?

    In personal polling abbott goes from dead, up to dreadful!

    [pollbludger, crikey]
    …Ipsos delivers the government its best poll result since early November – and unlike Newspoll, it has Tony Abbott’s personal ratings up as well.

    The obligatory bad news for Tony Abbott is provided by a preferred Liberal leader question, which places him third at 19%. Malcolm Turnbull tops the leader board on 39%, with Julie Bishop second on 26%. Unlike Newspoll, there is also improvement on Tony Abbott’s personal ratings: his net approval rating is up eight to a still dreadful minus 30%…

  46. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 12:44 pm

    Party Games: Latest poll eases heat on Abbott, for now
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/party-games-latest-poll-eases-heat-on-abbott-for-now/story-fnihsr9v-1227245446883

    …This gave Liberals, especially those rusted-on Abbott backers, a bounce in their mood and a smile on their faces.

    We can assume from this nothing will happen in the leadership space this week – which is what we assumed before we saw this poll. Abbott might have escaped the immediate clutches of the bear but he’s not out of the woods.

    His ratings on a host of kitchen table qualities – cares about issues, has vision, listens – are appalling whether matched against Shorten or his internal rival Malcolm Turnbull…

  47. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 3, 2015 12:49 pm

    “The obligatory bad news for Tony Abbott is provided by a preferred Liberal leader question, which places him third at 19%. Malcolm Turnbull tops the leader board on 39%, with Julie Bishop second on 26%.”

    Bishop is the winner there. Most of Turnbull’s support would be from Labor/Green voters.

    Sometime before the next election she will be put in to cut losses, like Rudd was. Unlike Rudd she is not a psychopath so they won’t have to chop her immediately after they lose the election.

    “Wrapping himself in al those flags and uniforms, the desperate use of national security scaremongering?

    In personal polling abbott goes from dead, up to dreadful!”

    But that doesn’t really explain why the Lib’s 2PP vote went up.

  48. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 12:59 pm

    The real conspiracy theorists are musing that this is all to bolster morrison. talcums done his dash, and the longer it drags, the weaker he looks. My previous guesstimation of bishop taking over is also left in the dust. The blue ties won’t settle on a womans, no matter what. morrison ticks the hard right boxes and, he is also a competent (albeit quite despicable) person.

    He is like yabot with a brain.

  49. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:20 pm

    lolz

    We like ‘Curious George’. He’s such a clever little monkey. But he’s really not too technical. Please pledge below to help George feed his insatiable curiosity. All you need to do is to cc senator.brandis@aph.gov.au on all your emails. Easy!

    http://www.beyondgreen.net.au/curious_george

    methinks georgies spam folder is going to get big quick.

  50. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:23 pm

    …The blue ties won’t settle on a womans, no matter what…

    I thought so too, but now I believe that if it comes down to her or talcum, they would fear her less, they probably think they could control her more.

    I know the religious right have got their hearts set on their fellow evangelical morrison, but it’s not his time yet, his asylum seeker treatment hasn’t gone from the collective public memory. Depends how he performs in the social services ministry too, if he’s too tough he won’t redeem himself.

  51. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:29 pm

    Abbott telling us [belatedly] that the troops are off to iraq.
    Much talk of death cults and he’s now got 8 flags!

  52. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:31 pm

  53. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:32 pm

  54. March 3, 2015 1:33 pm

    “”Unlike Rudd she is not a psychopath””

    no not remotely

  55. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:34 pm

    Yea, Diggers sent off to war by a mad pom. There’s one fucken similarity.

  56. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:34 pm

    The new and improved 8 flag presser hasn’t gone unnoticed.

  57. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:38 pm

    “”Unlike Rudd she is not a psychopath””</i.

    Of course she isn't 😯

  58. March 3, 2015 1:42 pm

  59. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:45 pm

    …A worker has the right to withdraw his/her labour – it is a human right…

    And this remains the case – don’t make a binding agreement if you’re not willing to be held to it.

    But if a worker gives a 2 or 3 year commitment not to strike, in exchange for a pay increase, should they meet that commitment or not?

  60. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 1:48 pm

    should they meet that commitment or not?

    As long as the other side holds to their agreement, I don’t see why not.

  61. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 2:06 pm

    The PM making reference to the anzac centenary and gallipoli again.
    Personally, I’m sick and tired of gallipoli and the anzacs being on consant rotation. Haven’t been able to tune into [yet another] supposedly brilliant series on ch 9 because I’m absolutely sick of seeing it. Sick of war themes and war games.

    Why not try peace and diplomacy for a change? War hasn’t worked.

    Sorry TB, but that’s how I feel, I’ve nothing but praise for the personal sacrifice that soldiers make [my own family contributed] but I’m sick of politicians aggrandising war as if it’s a good thing and sacrificing lives for their own personal popularity or sucking up to the war machines of the US and Israel.

    Abbott has been searching for a war contribution ever since he came to office.

    How many times did death cult get mentioned in that presser, did anyone count?

  62. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 2:16 pm

    The sheeple respond just as they were groomed and primed to do.

  63. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 2:39 pm

    When sharks smell blood in the water.

    ‘friends’ like these…

    WHO’S WHO IN DAVID ROFE’S WORLD:
    http://resources.news.com.au/files/2015/02/27/1227242/284498-david-rofe-world.pdf

  64. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 2:39 pm

    ROFL

    yabot just said he should have been conscious of the fact that you need to work with the health professionals when fucking up health, you know, as a former health minister.

    Dude just cannot learn.

  65. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 2:44 pm

  66. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 2:48 pm

  67. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 3, 2015 2:51 pm

    Splatterbottom

    Re your post at 11.52am. I am not totally blind to the faults of the Coalition but i have never seen them trash a budget like the ALP.

    It is very easy to create a mess but it is much harder to clean up.

    I have never seen the ALP clean up an economic mess just create one.

  68. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 3:20 pm

  69. March 3, 2015 3:28 pm

    “As the budget approaches and the trial balloons are floated the incompetence of the government will again be front and centre. The gap in the polls will widen and Abbott will get the scrutiny and wrath he deserves. The lesson is to keep an unrelenting focus on the substantive failures and don’t get side-tracked by irrelevant issues.”

    I can’t argue with that, although I’m not sure that Abbott’s arrogant denunciations of Triggs are ‘irrelevant issues’.

    Need to see a poll in the next week or so to determine whether he’s actually had a genuine ‘bounce’ or not.

    I think you’re right when you say that he’ll be on the nose again once people get wind of what his next round of ideological hobbling entails for them.

  70. March 3, 2015 3:30 pm

    “Abbott’s latest three word slogan”

    Bolt via Abbott via Bolt…

  71. Tom R permalink
    March 3, 2015 3:39 pm

    I’m not sure that Abbott’s arrogant denunciations of Triggs are ‘irrelevant issues’.

    The become ‘irrelevant issues’ when the smear and fear is exposed as such.

  72. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 3:48 pm

    But if a worker gives a 2 or 3 year commitment not to strike, in exchange for a pay increase, should they meet that commitment or not?

    Is Australia a signatory to the ILO Charter?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    Sorry TB, but that’s how I feel

    Me too BTW, KL …

    As far as I’m concerned wars and the politicians who start them are all shit! And an extremely wasteful way to reach a conclusion (sometimes).

    And I can assure I for one hate the concept of war … my perspective is the history (only ’cause some pollies made me part of it!)

    … simply knowing in the back of my mind during my two years in uniform I could be told “told pack yer stuff you leave on —- ” … and I still remember the feeling every time I was called to the Adjutant’s office …

    … or the day I was told that one of my mate’s from my recruit training section had been killed in VN sitting in or on an APC when it hit a mine …

    … or the sudden sinking feeling when my son who was in E Timor had rung me to ask a question about computers and said “hang on Dad I’ll just grab my rifle and go onto the other computer …” His unit was placed on alert later that night …

    I visited Long Tan last year to see where the bravery of 108 soldiers defied 2,600 NVA and NVC enemy and to pay my respects to the 18 Diggers who died – particularly the 11 National Servicemen.

    And … having been to Gallipoli and walked The Neck and Lone Pine in 2010 … it seems astounding that anyone lived in that awful nightmare! Over 113,000 men died on a very narrow peninsula (and I mean narrow) … and The Nek is shorter than a bloody cricket wicket!

    Killed at Çanakkale

    56,643 Turks

    56,707 Allies* …

    *34,072 British

    9,798 French

    8,709 Aussies … 2,721 Kiwis

    1,358 Indians

    49 Newfoundlanders

    Thank you, Mr Churchill … Private School Bullies all …

    Have I told you that history repeats?

  73. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 3:52 pm

    Abbott’s gone full commando, eight flags full!

  74. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 3:56 pm

    In other words, what is unfolding across Iraq, and indeed potentially the broader region, is a Shia-Sunni dispute. By intervening (again), we are taking sides with Shia Muslims against Sunni Muslims in a sectarian conflict.

    From Toiletwet’s link above …

    Just what I said at the beginning of this fkn stupid exercise!

    IT IS A RELIGIOUS CIVIL WAR!

    The more we put boots on the ground the more the locals will back off and let our grunts take the brunt!

    In fact our soldiers will be SF … not your ordinary crunchie!

    Just what did the trainers DO for all that time in Iraq? Oh that’s right they were septic tank trainers …

  75. March 3, 2015 3:56 pm

    The link above to the Switzer (of all people!) article does highlight the futility & probable counterproductivity of our involvement.

  76. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 3:56 pm

    KL! As I was typing!

  77. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 3, 2015 4:14 pm

    I wonder what lefties say about Gillard 12 flag press conference with Obama at Parliament House?

  78. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 3, 2015 5:51 pm

    “I have never seen the ALP clean up an economic mess just create one.”

    The Hawke government did just that.

    Before Turnbull, the Libs had another tall, ambitious, self-obsessed plutocrat called Malcolm. That particular Malcolm brought down a thoroughly good and decent PM, John Gorton and installed Billy McMahon as PM.

    That Malcolm eventually brought down Whitlam and went on to become PM. The nation hoped that he would clean up the Whitlam mess. In fact he was an abject failure. In essence he was an arrogant divisive big-government conservative who couldn’t keep his trousers on. When Fraser was turfed from office we had high inflation, high unemployment and high interest rates.

    Fraser was replaced by the Hawke government which introduced the economic reforms which not only improved the economy but laid the groundwork for our subsequent prosperity.

    ***

    As an interesting sidelight, Turnbull would be acutely aware of Fraser’s failings since Tom Hughes, (Turnbull’s father-in-law) slammed Fraser at Gorton’s funeral in 2002:

    “One of the great sadnesses of my life arises from my belief that Malcolm made a grave misjudgment in that act of condemnation.”

    Hughes at times directed his gaze at Fraser, who sat with his wife, Tammie, beside Gough Whitlam and Bob Hawke and their spouses. Someone insisted they saw Fraser shake his head at least once at Hughes’s assertions.

    Hughes went on: “The judgment of history upon John Gorton will be kinder than upon those who conspired to bring him down. May he rest in peace.

    “The decision to dump and replace John Gorton may be seen in historical perspective as resembling the downhill stampede to the precipice, described in the New Testament, of the proverbial gardarene swine.”

    Still he seems determined to repeat them.

  79. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 3, 2015 5:53 pm

    I should add that Abbott is in no way comparable to john Gorton.

  80. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 6:04 pm

    Gorton was real … he actually was a fighter pilot … not a wannabe like The Mad Monk!

    Down to earth as I recall too …

  81. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 3, 2015 6:34 pm

    “The Hawke government did just that.”

    You may be right about Fraser but i don’t think Hawke/Keating cleaned up any mess. In fact the mess got bigger.

    Govt debt tripled under Hawke/Keating. It went from 6% of GDP in 1983 to 18% of GDP in 1996. And that is with the asset sales of CommBank and Qantas and others. Furthermore the Commonwealths credit rating was downgraded not once but twice.

    And unemployment was high for all those 13 years. The current unemployment rate of 6.4% would be considered a good result back then. And then we had Keatings recession we did not have to have.

    Oh that is right. The ALP were just going to get the benefit of all their good work and then they lost the 1996 election

  82. March 3, 2015 6:36 pm

    ”””””””The right to strike is one of the essential means available to workers and their organisations for the promotion and protection of their economic and social interests (1983)””””””””””’

    # but,but,but, what about `onions-boo`.? lt`s how tinfoil cubicles are operated, don`t-cha-know

  83. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 7:11 pm

    TB – Is Australia a signatory to the ILO Charter?

    • Should people meet their obligations, particularly when their agreement is written down and signed?
    • Does the ILO say people should be able to just walk off the job?

  84. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 7:44 pm

    Your answer is here, ToM … executive consultant … economics major and advisor to unions should actually know this … I’m just a poor old motor mechanic – remember?

    http://www.ilo.org/dyn/normlex/en/f?p=NORMLEXPUB:12100:0::NO::P12100_ILO_CODE:C087

  85. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 7:55 pm

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/treasurer-joe-hockey-is-forcing-chinese-investor-to-sell-40-million-sydney-mansion/story-fndbawks-1227246813553

    I’m sure Jockey goes looking for dodgy millionaire deals – hey?

    (I can just see ’em – Hey! This’ll boost Jo’s image!!!!

  86. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 8:11 pm

    There is no right simply do “go on strike”

  87. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 8:13 pm

    sb @ 5:51 pm

    That was a lovely bit of history you gave us sb

    I enjoyed it. It was obviously wasted on your target though, judging by the reply, he’s not interested in learning anything nor does he appreciate the gift. But thanks anyway.

    [BTW, I think he missed the 21.4% interest rate when John Howard Mk1 was treasurer. under Fraser]

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/letters/the-inconvenient-truth-about-interest-rates-and-john-howard/2007/10/04/1191091271442.html

    …What John Howard did not want to admit then, and still continues to hide, is that when he was the treasurer in the Fraser government the interest rate was as high as 21.4 per cent – in April 1982. To use Mr Howard’s own words “that is not a scare tactic, it is a fact”.

    The highest interest rates from 1982 were: Fraser government (when Mr Howard was treasurer), 21.4 per cent in April 1982; Hawke government, 19 per cent in December 1985 and Keating government, 7.9 per cent in December 1994.

    The Liberal Party website during the 2004 election campaign also showed “interest rates under Labor” under Mr Whitlam as 10.38 per cent, under Mr Hawke at 17 per cent and under Mr Keating at 12 per cent. However, the rates shown were the “housing rates” and one important fact left out was that the housing rate under Mr Fraser, when Mr Howard was the treasurer, was 13 per cent – higher than under both Mr Whitlam and Mr Keating…

  88. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 8:18 pm

    If people want the right to go on strike, negotiate some “protest days” in their agreements.

    Don’t make commitments about continuity of work and maintenance of labour supply if you want to go on strike from time to time.

  89. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 3, 2015 8:25 pm

    What John Howard did not want to admit then, and still continues to hide, is that when he was the treasurer in the Fraser government the interest rate was as high as 21.4 per cent – in April 1982

    So what? I am sure you have heard of the GFC? Rudd/Gillard used it every time to justify their bad economic data.

    And Rudd/Gillard have a point.

    There was a nasty worldwide recession back in 1982. Interest rates in the USA were at 20%. Our rates have to be higher otherwise investors will put their money where they can get higher interest rates and money will flow out of the country.

    Your link is deceitful. The author tries to make out for no apparent reason Fraser govt had interest rates at 21%.

    Currently our interest rates while at record lows are still much higher than the rest of the world. They have to be if we want to attract investors to fund our deficit budgets.

  90. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 8:33 pm

    Don’t make commitments about continuity of work and maintenance of labour supply if you want to go on strike from time to time.

    Who makes those commitments tomM?
    Pretty sure there’s none of that in my work contract.

  91. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 9:13 pm

    What do you think of this reb?

    The Likely Cause of Addiction Has Been Discovered, and It Is Not What You Think:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

  92. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 9:16 pm

    There are few reasons for companies to enter into industrial agreements other than a predictable supply of labour. A predictable supply of labour is the key commitment for an agreement.

    No agreement is required to pay wage increases, for example.

    If one side is not willing to meet its basic obligations, it undermines the entire system of agreement making.

    If unionists want to go a protest rally, then rather than go on strike- negotiate a day of annual leave, or schedule the protest/rally on a rostered day off.

  93. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 9:31 pm

    …Don’t make commitments about continuity of work and maintenance of labour supply if you want to go on strike from time to time…

    That’s a two way street.

    What about the commitments that employers make to their workers? Why do they think it’s ok to downgrade or completely change the jobs that people do, change their wages, conditions and entitlements without any consultation or input from the employees?

    I tend to think that strike action is instigated because the employer has reneged on their responsibility to the workers or tried to rip them off in some way.

  94. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 9:40 pm

    Union members are stopping work to protest about the Productivity Commission looking at productivity issues.

    There is no suggestion that this is about employers not meeting their obligations, it is simply that unions want to ignore their obligations under the agreements they have voluntarily signed.

    If unions want the right to stop work at their discretion, then don’t sign agreements that prevent them from exercising this action.

  95. TB Queensland permalink
    March 3, 2015 9:47 pm

    What a load of hogwash, ToM … so much prattle and guesswork let’s make it simple …

    Can you name an “agreement” … that prevent(s) them from exercising this action”?

    Be very careful with your reply …

  96. March 3, 2015 10:26 pm

    I must say, YomM, the view you’re espousing does sound very generalist & is an interpretation through a single eye focussed upon the ‘welfare’ of the employer/whiphand.

    I don’t think most people choose to strike lightly…and I’m not sure that I’d consider that meeting an Industrial Dispute (yet).

    The fact that employers want to ‘plan around’ (read, have strikes only when it suits them, the employer…maybe in the off season or over Easter or something) strikes kinda defeats the purpose of striking to begin with (which I’d suggest is to ‘teach’ poor management that they aren’t the productive cog in the business machine & they will be impacted by a withdrawal of labour & a workforce isn’t instantly replaceable most of the time).

  97. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 10:38 pm

    Penalty rates: 13,000 nurses and midwives respond
    http://www.nurseuncut.com.au/penalty-rates-13000-nurses-and-midwives-respond/

    …92% of respondents currently work shifts outside regular Monday-Friday day-shift hours;

    90% reported that shift work affected their life outside work, particularly night and weekend shifts

    38.9% said penalty rates compensated for the effects of shift work on their lives outside work;

    49.2% said penalty rates at least partially compensated for the effects of shift work on their lives;

    87% indicated they would stop working shift work if penalty rates were removed or lowered;

    92.7% warned they would take action to protect their penalty rates with just over 60% indicating they would take stop work or strike action.

    “Nurses and midwives deliver care 24/7, they must – this is how the health system survives,” Ms Thomas said. “While our members recognise this and dedicate themselves to their profession, nothing truly makes up for everything they miss – time with their children, families and friends and social and community activities…

  98. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 10:56 pm

    I think parties should meet commitments they willingly make, employers and employees.

    Most unionised workers get 12 to 24 rostered days off a year, but unions don’t schedule their protests on RDOs – because they want the sense of taking action rather than recommending people tune up during their leisure time.

    Action is unprotected if it is taken without the agreement of the employer, but it is not e=necessarily illegal. I think this is where TB might be (typically) confused.

  99. March 3, 2015 10:58 pm

    “If unions want the right to stop work at their discretion, then don’t sign agreements that prevent them from exercising this action.”

    That sounds reasonable, on the face of it.

  100. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 10:59 pm

    …and I’m not denying the legitimacy of penalty rates AO, many nurses only remain in the occupation because of the penalty rates.

    But if unions wish to retain the right to strike on the basis of concerns about the future of workplace legislation, they should be upfront about it and retain this right rather than sign up to agreements that prevent it, then breaking their word.

  101. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:02 pm

    Action is unprotected if it is taken without the agreement of the employer, but it is not e=necessarily illegal. I think this is where TB might be (typically) confused.

    Action is unprotected if it is taken during the period of operation of an agreement without the agreement of the employer, but it is not necessarily illegal. I think this is where TB might be (typically) confused.

  102. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:10 pm

    Most unionised workers get 12 to 24 rostered days off a year, but unions don’t schedule their protests on RDOs – because they want the sense of taking action rather than recommending people tune up during their leisure time.

    You do know that RDO’s are given as mutually agreed upon days tomM?

    Scheduled protests so employers aren’t inconvenienced in any way?
    How very nice, how very decent and civilised is that expectation? FFS, how very dare those workers act in such an adversarial way in this adversarial IR system!

    …Action is unprotected if it is taken without the agreement of the employer…

    What is the fkn point of strike action if the employer has to agree to it? Perhaps we should do away with the IR system completely. It seems to be a complete stitch up by capital.

    That is plainly ridiculous, about as useful as having to plan a demonstration with the permission of the police and authorities so that they can kettle everyone in an area where they can easily ignore them and not cause anyone any inconvenience.

    When they try to put people in chains, civil disobedience must be the only outcome.

  103. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:23 pm

    If the action is genuinely rolitical protest, rather than action that targets an employer, there seems no legitimate reason to harm an employer.

    And if people prefer to be unrestricted in their workplace action, don’t voluntarily sign agreements that restrict or prevent this.

  104. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:25 pm

    ‘political’ – I’m testing my new device

  105. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 3, 2015 11:38 pm

    …But if unions wish to retain the right to strike on the basis of concerns about the future of workplace legislation, they should be upfront about it and retain this right rather than sign up to agreements that prevent it, then breaking their word.

    Perhaps the members don’t know their union has signed up to the agreements. I know I would never want my right to strike, my right to withdraw my labour, to ever be bartered away by my union…

  106. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:09 am

    I think this is where TB might be (typically) confused

    I’m not the one making assertions and (typically) not the one confused …

    You haven’t identified the agreement you vaguely refer to, ToM

  107. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 7:48 am

    You haven’t identified the agreement you vaguely refer to, ToM

    I really think it is past time that you started fronting up with some clear and concise examples here yomm, instead of making vague attributions that you seem to want to pin onto all workers. Or do the one or two examples you are thinking of not really apply, hence the generalities?

    There is no suggestion that this is about employers not meeting their obligations

    Tell it to the cleaners, public servants or the Diggers that yabot is “sweating” with. They all have found out first hand what this grubmint is about, and their history. When yabot says something is ‘dead, buried, cremated’, you can put money on the fact that he is lying.

    On the other hand, I also agree that, in this case (not the specificity yomm), the rally should be held outside of normal working hours (a small window under this regressive grubmints ideal). I don’t think that a business should suffer because of a rabid grubmints attack on workers.

    But, I also anticipate a lot of bosses attending the rally. I don’t think that many are up for another round of workchoices.

  108. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 8:59 am

    I think TB commented – …A worker has the right to withdraw his/her labour – it is a human right…

    I merely replied that people have the right to strike, but if they sign an agreement without specifically identifying that they retain the right to stop work/strike/protest, they’ve probably lost that right.

    The action is probably unprotected but maybe not illegal.

    * Take an RDO
    * Have an annual leave day
    * Reach an agreement on who will attend the protest

    …but many unions prefer just to have everyone down tools after they have given away the right to take this action.

  109. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 9:17 am

    Yes, but as has been pointed out, not many people have that written into their agreements. Perhaps you can highlight a specific case? I am aware that they exist. But they are not common, and would not influence something like this.

    It just sounds like a straw man yomm.

  110. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 9:18 am

    Where’s all those “free speech” advocates now?

    Up in arms when journos told not to lie, but now, TEWWAWISM, flags at level 10!

    Fucken silence.

    “I fear the terrorist threat is being used as an opportunity to manage the media,” Fairfax Media’s chief press gallery photographer Andrew Meares said.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/corralled-and-controlled-journalists-the-collateral-in-parliament-clampdown-20150303-13txkt.html

  111. March 4, 2015 9:20 am

    Hi Kittylitter,

    Thanks for that article. Coincidentally I read a different article about the same experiment a couple of weeks ago.

    To suggest that socialisation (or its absence) is a contributing cause to addiction is an interesting theory that may have some merit. However I doubt it is the “be all and end all of” explaining why people become addicted to different substances.

    It perhaps explains why people who attend AA find some solace in the group “socialisation”environment however it doesn’t really explain how someone in a loving family environment turns to drugs.

    Some drug takers, some meth users for example, are drawn to the subculture of people who use that drug, so in fact there is a sense of “belonging” that comes from slamming with other users.

    That people may be drawn to drugs due to feeling marginalised, worthless and “disconnected” from family, friends (or unemployed, victims of abuse, domestic violence etc) is a no brainer, but I doubt simply “reconnecting”” with people is the answer to addiction, particularly when it comes to things like meth.

    I was watching a documentary last night about meth use in Missouri that showed that only 6% of meth addicts finally break free from their addiction.

    One thing is for sure, no one goes out one day and thinks “I think I’ll become a meth addict today..”

    I think drugs fill “a void” or a “need” that only becomes apparent once the individual discovers the substance that fills that need or void, and then that’s when the brain celebrates and rewards the mind with a “Eureka” moment.

  112. March 4, 2015 9:24 am

    “”I merely replied that people have the right to strike, but if they sign an agreement without specifically identifying that they retain the right to stop work/strike/protest, they’ve probably lost that right.””

    So when the boss walks in one day unannounced and says to a Unionised workforce “I want you all to work this weekend without pay” are you suggesting they shouldn’t have the right to strike in protest?

  113. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 9:28 am

    Thanks reb, strawman accepted 🙂

  114. March 4, 2015 9:30 am

    “”UK should begin decriminalising drugs, say Richard Branson and Nick Clegg
    Virgin founder and deputy prime minister argue that ‘war on drugs’ has failed and urge UK to follow Portuguese example””

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/03/uk-should-begin-decriminalising-drugs-richard-branson-nick-clegg

  115. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 4, 2015 10:36 am

    “It was obviously wasted on your target though”

    Clearly Neil is a lot more bitter and twisted than even Tony Abbott who last night on Richo + Jones (at about 21:30) noted:

    “The Hawke and Keating government did some great things for our country…. The reforms the Hawke/Keating government put in place have had very lasting value and indeed have been built on by the Howard government…”

    Neil, bitter and twisted myopia is not the way to understand Australian politics much less engage in rational debate. It demeans you and diminishes even the good points you sometimes make.

  116. March 4, 2015 10:46 am

    Not very convincing, YomM.

    Not very convincing at all.

    As KL pointed out, it’s rarely possible to just ‘declare’ that you’re taking an RDO or A/L day now .

    They must (generally) be scheduled & granted.

    Also, I find it comical that you think Business should never be inconvenienced without agreeing to it.
    As I said earlier, most people don’t strike on a whim.

    I’d also like to see the specific clause which denies the right to strike. It’s certainly not as ‘easy’ as it used to be, but we’re not quite manacled yet.

    As for above…why the fuck would any normal person choose to do shiftwork without penalty rates?
    Non-shiftworkers really do have their heads up their arses sometimes.

  117. March 4, 2015 10:50 am

    If the dumbass government even murmurs about removing penalty rates in a serious way, then you’ll get to see some unabridged rolitical protestations.

  118. March 4, 2015 10:51 am

    “Neil, bitter and twisted myopia is not the way to understand Australian politics much less engage in rational debate. It demeans you and diminishes even the good points you sometimes make.”

    My sentiments exactly…although I’m increasingly of the opinion that perhaps Neil is just trying to antagonise.

  119. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 10:51 am

    why the fuck would any normal person choose to do shiftwork without penalty rates?

    Because they swallow the shit peddled by privileged journo’s who tell them it’s all in their best interests.

    Maybe they should be watchin 4C and Apples “industrial relations” so hipsters can bleet about their latest fucken dinner.

  120. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 10:59 am

    If the dumbass government even murmurs about removing penalty rates in a serious way, then you’ll get to see some unabridged rolitical protestations.

    Which perhaps explains the industrial unrest

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott says he’ll seek a mandate for any workplace law changes, but believes penalty rates are inhibiting jobs.

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/01/23/abbott-warms-penalty-rate-changes

    Dead, Buried, Cremated (just like all his other broken promises)

  121. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:00 am

    A reminder

    http://www.abbottslies.com.au/

  122. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:01 am

    1. That boss can’t simply require employees to work without pay. So naturally they can decide that they won’t work…and it’s me presenting a straw man?
    2. In Victoria and several other states, in the building & construction, services, contracting and parts of manufacturing industries (which is where many of the protesters will come from) they have RDOs programmed a year in advance. Have unions requested accommodation of attendance at a protest by RDOs or annual leave days? Have these requests been refused?
    3. There is a right to strike, and the ALP wrote this into the fair work act. If unions want the right to go to protest rallies, at their whim, they should foreshadow this proviso in the agreements they reach. Otherwise they are engaging in unprotected action, which may or may not be illegal.

  123. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:24 am

    …I merely replied that people have the right to strike, but if they sign an agreement without specifically identifying that they retain the right to stop work/strike/protest, they’ve probably lost that right…

    So when it comes to IR, the rule of contract law turns inside out, people have to be mind readers?

    I always thought that the contract lawyers say, if it ain’t written down in black and white then it doesn’t exist.

    “…Also, I find it comical that you think Business should never be inconvenienced without agreeing to it…”
    “…If the dumbass government even murmurs about removing penalty rates in a serious way, then you’ll get to see some unabridged rolitical protestations….”

    Totally agree, bring it on!

    Reb, thanks for such a well thought reply, I agree, I think it’s more than simply not having a social life. There’s another need being filled. Once on drugs, they take themselves away from society to what the sub culture offers.
    I tend to think that it’s more like certain people rejecting this society,not the other way around and when I think more about it, they are given the label ‘anti society’ because that’s what this society does to people who choose not to participate – blame the person. Rather than look seriously at why they reject ‘this market life’ geared to big money and success, they can’t see that some would rather not compete in the fixed competition of life at all.

  124. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:36 am

    People who enter into agreements (or recommend them) should be aware of the consequences.

    Unions know that during the course of a 3 year agreement there are likely to be issues that they will seek to protest about. Once unions start recommending stoppages, it is no longer a community style protest, it becomes industrial action.

    Without the application of process to make it protected, or without agreement, the union action becomes unprotected.

    If unions expect to be able to take action and stop work during the period of an agreement, they should ensure in advance that the agreement reflects this. Otherwise they’re risking allowing their members to be sued.

    It’s no use blaming me for this, it’s ALP legislation.

  125. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:39 am

    …There is a right to strike, and the ALP wrote this into the fair work act. If unions want the right to go to protest rallies, at their whim, they should foreshadow this proviso in the agreements they reach. Otherwise they are engaging in unprotected action, which may or may not be illegal…

    Just like employers foreshadow all their planned ‘workplace changes’ to their workforce in agreements?

  126. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:45 am

    As far as I know awards and/or agreements have provisions covering redundancy, notification of change, notice period required to change rosters/hours, grievance/dispute resolution procedures.

    If an employer doesn’t comply with these obligations I’m aware that unions seek orders for compliance, take action in the Federal Court and/or stop work.

    Do you think a power station or hospital etc should close for the day because people want to attend a protest rally?

  127. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:48 am

    …Once unions start recommending stoppages, it is no longer a community style protest, it becomes industrial action…

    What if the union has nothing to do with it, doesn’t organise it at all? What if the non-union workers themselves have decided something stinks and want to exercise their right to strike or protest?

    As many keep reminding us, unions are only 18% of the workforce.

  128. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:49 am

    “Neil, bitter and twisted myopia is not the way to understand Australian politics much less engage in rational debate.”

    I just stated the economic numbers of the Hawke/keating govt. Was i wrong?

    Hawke was good but it ended in disaster with keating. Have you forgotten this

    Sept-Dec 1991- 10.1, 10.0, 10.2, 10.4
    Jan-Dec 1992- 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 11.2
    Jan-Dec1993- 10.9, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 10.8, 11.0, 10.8, 11.0, 10.7, 10.9, 10.8, 10.6
    Jan-April 1994- 10.4, 10.3, 10.3, 10.1

    Those numbers are the unemployment rate. 30 months of DD unemployment.

    Also keating lost control of the budget in his last years. And that is the same for any Labor govt.

    The ALP cannot, will not and has never been able to control its spending.

    And at the moment the same goes for the Coalition govt.

  129. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:55 am

    As far as I know awards are 21 inches thick (apparently) 😉

  130. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 11:57 am

    Do you think a power station or hospital etc should close for the day because people want to attend a protest rally?

    Do you have any evidence of this occurring? It is just people exercising their democratic right to rally (ie, it is not a strike)

    btw, nice use of Union money to advertise the Union I reckon 😉

  131. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:00 pm

    The action is probably unprotected but maybe not illegal.

    * Take an RDO
    * Have an annual leave day
    * Reach an agreement on who will attend the protest

    …but many unions prefer just to have everyone down tools after they have given away the right to take this action

    I’ve read enough of your comments over the years to know that you’re a pretty sharp cookie, ToM …

    But every once in a while …

    1. This was my original comment … “Unlawful strikes … brings back memories …

    A worker has the right to withdraw his/her labour – it is a human right.

    Unless a government makes “useless” laws …”

    2. If withdrawing your labour was not a human right what do you think would happen (watch the Four Corners program on Apple – that’s what happens)

    3. Many people two generations later find it hard to understand that the IR “fairness” (ie conditions and basic pay) in our society (being slowly whittled away by ignoramuses) was hard fought for by families – not just unionists – like my father – but his family who often went without – to improve everyone’s share of the profits that companies make through the “labour” owned by employees. Do you think big business and their Liberal National Party tory lackeys don’t want it back?

    4. RDO’s are not always taken by everyone at the same time

    5. Many people can’t take a day off when they want it – they have to put in a request – as an individual – nice way to divide and conquer the strength of union solidarity

    6. “Reach an agreement?” An IR union protest is about numbers not representatives

    But the fact remains, ToM …

    A worker has the right to withdraw his/her labour – it is a human right.

    And can/could be argued all the way to the Hague … geloof het!

  132. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:14 pm

    …Do you think a power station or hospital etc should close for the day because people want to attend a protest rally?…

    Yes, if it’s something really important to the employees. Emotional blackmail should not keep employees from voicing their dissatisfaction and concern.
    Pretty sure they are already nobbled though, essential services not allowed to strike though.

    There should only be skeleton staff left at the organisation to provide essential service to existing clients only.

    Actually, if it’s so important that it needs a walk-out, I think the management should have to step up and take over the essential services, isn’t that what they are paid for, to ensure the smooth running of the place?
    They are stakeholders not innocent bystanders and shouldn’t have the luxury of pretending it’s nothing to do with them. Let them show their real commitment to the clients.

  133. March 4, 2015 12:14 pm

    “”they can’t see that some would rather not compete in the fixed competition of life at all.””

    Maybe it’s not even a conscientious decision.

    I think it’s no coincidence that many talented “creative” types simply struggle with the world as it exists and find solace in dulling their senses.

    I was reading some interesting research recently that indicated that the part of the brain that is responsible for “flight or fight” response is also the same part that controls addictive behaviour, which explains why many addicts persist with injecting/consuming toxic substances despite being aware of the negative consequences.

    In other words, the brain becomes re-wired to accept the dopamine surge that comes from drug use as “the new norm”.

    Unlike methadone for heroin users, there is no “safe” chemical substitute for meth, and the surge of dopamine users experience from meth use is so strong it actually destroys the dopamine receptors in the brain – leading to prolonged periods of depression when a meth user attempts to quit.

  134. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:25 pm

    In hospitals, you’ll find that the patients and families are usually on the side of the nurses. Don’t think that they are happy with how the system operates where nurses don’t have time to do their jobs properly. Don’t think they like how the govt/employer cut costs with staffing and services.

    I have known many lovely people who have said they will organise their day to come in and care for their own family member themselves so that nurses can attend protest/strike action.

  135. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:30 pm

    …That boss can’t simply require employees to work without pay…

    But they do. What is unpaid overtime and TOIL all about?

    What is too much work to be done in the time allocated all about, unless it’s about expecting people to work unpaid until the job is done – and people do it!

  136. March 4, 2015 12:39 pm

    “”…That boss can’t simply require employees to work without pay…””

    But in practice they do.

    They just don’t put it in writing.

  137. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:41 pm

    This was probably the Queensland LNP’s “handshake moment” too …

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/im-with-stupid-charges-dropped/story-e6frfku9-1227247469911

  138. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:44 pm

    fer yomms strawman

  139. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:47 pm

    They just don’t put it in writing.

    James Hardie was a classic for that … I recall the Accountant “spotting” me leaving at about 5.45 pm one day and dobbing me in to my boss – the HR manager (another incompetent), who then carpeted me … my reply to the accusation … “so where was N (the accountant) at 5.30 AM? ‘Cause I was at ***** ( another factory site) setting up for hearing tests … ” after 12 hours I’d had enough! No overtime …

  140. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:50 pm

    fer yomms strawman

    That’ll make, ToM all cuddly and warm down his trouser leg … 🙂

  141. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:54 pm

    all cuddly and warm down his trouser leg

    I hope he’s not sending in a selfie of that 😯

  142. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 4, 2015 12:57 pm

    Neil, bitter and twisted myopia is not the way to understand Australian politics much less engage in rational debate. It demeans you and diminishes even the good points you sometimes make.

    Get fucked shithead.

    You voted for Rudd in 2007.

    YOUR vote cause 50,000 boat people to come here resulting in thousands of people drowning and thousands of people from UNHCR camps being denied a place in Australia.

    $12B spent housing all these people.

    Govt debt going from nothing to having the fastest growth in the Western world.

    A budget trashed and most probably incapable of being untrashed.

    The Hawke/Keating govt started good and then ended in disaster like all ALP govts.

  143. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:00 pm

    AO ” What if the union has nothing to do with it, doesn’t organise it at all?

    That’s why there are so many “community protests” these days. But many unions want the image of organising the protests, and when they do this they’re probably exposing their members to the risk of unprotected action litigation.

    Tom R – ” Do you have any evidence of this occurring?

    In the power sector, every time these events are organised there will be applications for orders for orders and other types of litigation. Under this pressure, unions will usually provide some skeleton/breakdown/maintenance crews. Without the pressure they will (usually) offer nothing.

    TB, I was involved with some union officials from South Africa a few years ago. Certainly they saw protests/industrial action as important mechanisms to press for social reform. I agreed with them, most of their industrial activity was about their equity agenda rather than their industrial claims.

    But the fact remains, unions know they want to take protest action, but they won’t preserve their rights in the agreements they sign, then under (legal) pressure they relent and usually provide minimum manning.

  144. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:06 pm

    In the power sector

    You could have just said “no, I don’t” 😉

    Unless you have a case of this “pressure” being supplied, rather than just Unions working with management.

  145. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:08 pm

    Someone put this up the other day. Like most lolstralian efforts, it’s been exposed as being .. er…mistaken 😉

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-23/total-child-detainees/6219220

  146. March 4, 2015 1:10 pm

    Tom C’mon mate Power stations & Hospitals closing? Sounds like something Nils would say 🙄

    Neil N is just an antagonistic troll that has a boring suppressed life so he straps on his plastic balls and posts in others blogs…

    Cant write, cant prosecute an argument.. just a facile. insignificant little man with irrationally myopic vision.

    Anyone with any predicated semblance of fiscal rationale understands the fortitude and bravery of PJK’s political will in modernising the economy..

    It was beyond the ability of the fiberals, Howard ( the worst treasurer in history) who took Whitlams economic legacy of a perfect balance sheet and trashed it irreparably jeopodising Australias future prosperity.

    Its there in the statutes, a legacy of unparalleled economic reform achievement for which Australians, not hypothesized by faux propaganda are eternally grateful…

  147. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:20 pm

    …Get fucked shithead.
    You voted for Rudd in 2007…

    YOUR vote cause 50,000 boat people to come here resulting in thousands of people drowning and thousands of people from UNHCR camps being denied a place in Australia.
    $12B spent housing all these people.
    Govt debt going from nothing to having the fastest growth in the Western world.
    A budget trashed and most probably incapable of being untrashed.
    The Hawke/Keating govt started good and then ended in disaster like all ALP govts…

    I think that is a particularly nasty reply to sb, who has actually taken the time and trouble to point out where neil is incorrect in fact and stating bald faced lies.
    sb also offered some friendly and quite kindly advice on the deliberately inflammatory way that neil posts, pointing out why he is ignored and seen as trolling.

    Quite uncalled for IMO

  148. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:28 pm

    Nope

    SB voted for Rudd in 2007 and caused all these problems.

  149. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:32 pm

    piss off neil

  150. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:42 pm

  151. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:45 pm

  152. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:51 pm

    Join the real world Ricky, you don’t think workers at a (say Latrobe Valley) power station would all stop work for a day if their union recommended this???

  153. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 1:59 pm

    would all stop work for a day if their union recommended this?

    Of course they would, and have.

    What’s your point yomm, or haven’t you worked it out yet?

    Too busy looking for those specific cases I asked about I hope 😉

  154. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:00 pm

    Words fail

  155. March 4, 2015 2:07 pm

    Neil, I can’t believe you’re as wrongheaded as your reply to splatter’s entirely reasonable comment.

    At first I thought you must’ve mistaken him for a ‘lefty’, but you’ve since confirmed that you are fully aware it was him.

    “get fucked shithead”…indeed!

  156. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:08 pm

    Some more pictures

  157. March 4, 2015 2:15 pm

    “4. RDO’s are not always taken by everyone at the same time

    5. Many people can’t take a day off when they want it – they have to put in a request – as an individual ”

    Yes, and for some of us there is no leave outside of the permanently rotating roster; not including sick/carers/bereavement leave (which shouldn’t be taken in that ‘spirit’ anyway) and rostered annual leave.

    As usual, those decreeing what is or isn’t fair for employees, work Monday to Friday & sleep in their bed every night & probably get all public holidays off as well. No concept of working outside ‘normal hours’.

  158. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:16 pm

    Thanks nIl

    Makes even sadder to see her gone now. She did us proud on the world stage.

  159. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:16 pm

    words fail

    hehe, those LNP women have been made honourable or token men for a day. I wonder if any women are allowed to attend the event [they should all boycott on principle IMO]. Oh, it’s only for LNP women, of course they’d probably have to be signed in by the male members!

    No worries about infiltration by activists I’d say, well vetted and controlled LNP function [as always]. And it’s not even IWD on friday, it’s on the 8th!

  160. March 4, 2015 2:18 pm

    “Some more pictures”

    Some more Bolt regurge.

  161. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:22 pm

    Some more Bolt regurge.

    Oh, were they supposed to be ridiculing Gillard? They seemed quite benign to me. If you want to ridicule, try this 🙂

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsJBX2TCIAEtn8I.jpg:medium

  162. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:23 pm

    And it’s not even IWD on friday, it’s on the 8th!

    ROFL

  163. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:25 pm

    So far no one has bothered to address the issue that started this discussion –

    1. If unions demand the right to take industrial action as a form of protest, why do they give away that right by making agreements that don’t provide the right?

    2. If unions demand the right to take industrial action as a form of protest, why do they expose their members to personal litigation by encouraging unprotected industrial action?

    Same goes for shift workers.

  164. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:28 pm

    So far no one has bothered to address the issue that started this discussion –

    Could that be because it is not industrial action yomm?

    #justsayin’

  165. March 4, 2015 2:30 pm

    Privy to the details of the Agreement I’m under, are you?

  166. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:30 pm

    …As usual, those decreeing what is or isn’t fair for employees, work Monday to Friday & sleep in their bed every night & probably get all public holidays off as well. No concept of working outside ‘normal hours’…

    Exactly, common refrains from just about everywhere I’ve worked”

    “OK for them, they don’t have to work the same roster they expect of others.”

    “Those managers only ever work a 4 day week [10 hr days and have a three day long w/end every week], of course they can’t relate to our work or our rosters”

    “you can see by the roster that these people have no idea of the impact of shiftwork on workers”

    “You would think that they could look at the roster and say to themselves “how would I like to work that roster?”

    “If you think I’m working that roster you’re crazy, I can see some ‘roster induced’ sick leave coming up”

    “I’m going to resign, I just can’t work these rosters, it makes me physically sick and I can’t cope with family commitments”

    “They advertise family friendly rostering for staff and there is none given in practice”

  167. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:31 pm

    Maybe the msm won’t ignore this rally?

  168. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:36 pm

    Thanks for the kind words KL (and TBoss). I should add that I don’t think Neil is a troll. It is much sadder than that – he actually believes that he makes logical arguments.

  169. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:38 pm

    he actually believes that he makes logical arguments.

    so do I, but some people still call me names 🙂

  170. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:40 pm

    Yep thanks for that.

    I lived through keatings recession with unemployment at 11% and interest rates at 18%.

    I was also in Geelong when the Pyramid Building Society went under and Victoria almost went bankrupt.

    By the way what were these great reforms that keating did?

    I can think of Superannuation but it is not working. Most people are still going on the pension when they retire. Super was supposed to stop that.

  171. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:44 pm

    Super was supposed to stop that.</i.

    Wow, just wow.

    I'll see if you can work it out first 😉

  172. March 4, 2015 2:52 pm

    Wood, but for the trees…

  173. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 4, 2015 2:53 pm

    “so do I, but some people still call me names :)”

    To be fair, I usually note that you are the master of the art. Neil has neither the wit or the wits to be a good troll. He is more of a piece with Iain Hall.

  174. March 4, 2015 3:02 pm

    Haha!

    That’s not a resounding compliment!

    In other news Anthony ‘Backflip’ Abbott today finds money (previously sworn to be non-existent) for ADF (meagre) pay increase.

    So, no budget emergency then? Given what we were being told, only a couple of months ago, were non-negotiable financially urgent measures, are now being shelved on a daily basis.
    Inconsistency of message makes me doubt credibility of message. More of a concerted effort to save political hides than genuine rethinking or actual contrition.

  175. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 3:03 pm

    …Women looking to enjoy the facilities can do so, but only if they bring along their “Partners Card”, which provides them with access to club facilities and services.

    Australian Young Labor national secretary Mitchell Watt, who posted the invitation on Twitter, said he thought it was a joke to begin with.

    “But then I remembered that this was from a party with a male Minister for Women,” he said…

  176. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 3:10 pm

  177. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 3:23 pm

  178. March 4, 2015 3:58 pm

    I’d say today’s performance is a glaringly profound indication of

    (A) what type of troll Nils is…
    (B) What he is here for

  179. March 4, 2015 4:08 pm

    Ricky, regardless of what you (or I) think of Neil, he has a right to privacy, so please refrain from disclosing personal information about him on this public forum.

  180. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:14 pm

    I also insist on privacy!

    …and my email address is tomofmelbourne@gmail.com

    Last time I posted this, I won $5,000,000 (but I haven’t seen it yet)

  181. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:16 pm

    When getting a question from shorten about whether the minister for woman thinks it is right for the LNP to have an IWD dinner at a mens only club in qld, Abbott says “good on the LNP, smashing the glass ceiling yet again” raises fist in triumph!

    comments:
    …If I’d made up a joke along those lines, people would have told me I was going too far. These people are beyond parody.
    Greg Platt Location Brunswick Date and time March 04, 2015, 3:47PM

    I don’t think it’s right that those feisty fillies should smash the glass ceiling as Sir Posi-tory suggests, however they could certainly give it a bit of a clean-up while they’re there … its bloody filthy.
    GMan11 Location At my damn club with a brandy and a cigar Date and time March 04, 2015, 3:58PM…

  182. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:21 pm

  183. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:22 pm

  184. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:28 pm

    Once a misogynist cnut, always a misogynist cnut

    Mr Abbott, also the federal Minister for Women, trumpeted the event as a triumph for feminism.

    “This is just how wonderful this broad church that I lead is … obviously they’ve just broken down the last barrier and they’ve made the men-only club admit women,” he said in a spirited response during question time.

    “Admit women! Isn’t that fantastic? At last, this bastion of chauvinism has admitted women and they’ve done it on International Women’s Day because of the Liberal National Party.

    “Good on the Liberal National Party, smashing the glass ceiling yet again. I say congratulations and thank God that bastion of old-fashioned chauvinism has finally collapsed like the walls of Jericho at the trumpet cry of the Liberal National Party.”

    Mr Abbott may have overstated the significance of the lunch, as its speakers remained ineligible for Tatts membership.

    The guys a fucken embarrassment. And stupid to boot!

  185. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:31 pm

    And not sure what this is about?

  186. March 4, 2015 4:38 pm

    You must be joking about them cutting live cattle exports to Indo in reprisal?

  187. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:40 pm

    I’m not sure toiletunsoiledbyterrororinvertebrateboxtrolls , just a random tweet I saw, which most probably means nothing, but, I just asked a question.

    Tweets are often twits 😉

  188. March 4, 2015 4:47 pm

    especially guttertwits.

  189. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:48 pm

  190. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:51 pm

    I saw that tweet too tomR, but didn’t know the reference, was wondering if something was suggested by a lib MP.

  191. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:58 pm

  192. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 4:59 pm

    Ricky, regardless of what you (or I) think of Neil, he has a right to privacy …

    Just as he has the right to withdraw his labourcomments … at any time! It’s a Troll Right.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    LNP think it’s acceptable to cut live cattle

    Say WHAT?!?

  193. March 4, 2015 5:02 pm

    I didn’t see any personal information about Neil, but I must say I denounce such things.

  194. March 4, 2015 5:16 pm

    Ricky, regardless of what you (or I) think of Neil, he has a right to privacy, so please refrain from disclosing personal information about him on this public forum.

    Just a small reminder to those who are intent on stepping over the mark in regard to name calling and repetitive trolling to make themselves feel tough… that anonymity is just a word. We leave digital footprints “all over the place” …

    Reb I always show great restraint… plus quite frankly I could not be bothered…

    Take into consideration that I did not

    * Disclose his street address
    * The mac address of his machine…
    * Cancel his big pond broadband account,
    * Hack his router,
    * Infect his virus software with spyware or malware
    * Redirect his emails to the Russian mob or The mad muslims
    * Void his Opel card..

    * Sign him up for an anger management or web etiquette course

    that would be wrong 🙄

    ..”metadata” a very powerful tool if you know how to use it. We should do all we can to protect it

    I also insist on privacy!

    Stop sending those emails on penis enlargement will you please….

  195. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 5:21 pm

    I didn’t see any personal information about Neil, but I must say I denounce such things.

    Ahhhhhh! Neither did … but?

  196. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 5:23 pm

    So the ADF now gets 2% (just over inflation – now! – @ 1.7%) … to run around in the desert getting shot at by – well, anyone?

    Good-ho … what?

  197. Walrus permalink
    March 4, 2015 5:36 pm

    “LNP think it’s acceptable to cut live cattle”

    I doubt that. However FYI Darwins only export abbatoir was opened last September. Live Cattle is being phased out by AACo as they are trying to transition their brahma breeds and wagyu breeds to higher value packaged/vac pack.

    The problem as always is the fattening process before slaughter. Live cattle are shipped underweight to Asia mainly because we cant get them fat enough here ( in the NT and FNQ and NWA).

    So they usually spend time in paddocks in Asia before slaughter

  198. March 4, 2015 6:09 pm

    “I didn’t see any personal information about Neil,”

    That’s because I deleted it.

  199. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 6:17 pm

    That’s because I deleted it.

    OMG! How will nIls ever find its way home? 😯

  200. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 6:19 pm

    Speaking of nIls, I wonders if he’s worked out how come peeps are still going on the pension?

    How long do you reckon it might take him to work it out? (clever hint inserted in musing there) 😉

  201. March 4, 2015 6:23 pm

    “Speaking of nIls, I wonders if he’s worked out how come peeps are still going on the pension?”

    That’s easy…I don’t wanna steal Neil’s thunder, but…LaborLaborLabor …!?

  202. Walrus permalink
    March 4, 2015 6:25 pm

    “We leave digital footprints “all over the place” …”

    That’s why I dont blog on certain sites.

    And when I have posted on that fucking dirtbag Miglos site in the long distant past I’ve always done it from my timeshare office under a different hotmail and IP address (the office has 10 IP addresses for reasons I wont bore you with)

    I think the stupid cunt and his equally stupid wife thought they had my ID once.

    That made me laugh.

    Those 2 stupid cunts deserve themselves.

  203. March 4, 2015 6:45 pm

    So you’re safe then Walrus? that’s hilarity right there 🙄 … You don’t send emails? Never plugged your phone into a machine? Own anything with a magnetic strip? Pay waved to the Illuminati? wire transferred? Own a USB stick ….

    I suggest everybody watches this film…

  204. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 7:11 pm

    Those 2 stupid cunts deserve themselves.

    But what deserves a wally, even on timeshare?

  205. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 7:38 pm

    That’s because I deleted it. Ahhhhhh … 😉

    He’ll be devastated when he finds out it was Liberal! Liberal! Liberal!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Wally said (the office has 10 IP addresses for reasons I wont bore you with

    LOL! He’s a fkn pirate! LOL! 😆 😆 😆 😆

    But ‘e don’t know it! 😆

  206. March 4, 2015 8:04 pm

    10 IP addresses I wont bore you with…

    Cayman Islands
    Lichtenstein
    Switzerland
    Cook Islands
    Luxembourg
    Jersey
    Hong Kong
    Bahrain
    Japan
    Dublin

    Where’s Wally?

    http://news.domain.com.au/domain/real-estate-news/forced-sale-of-39-million-point-piper-mansion-could-result-in-bargain-basement-price-20150304-13um2m.html

  207. March 4, 2015 8:26 pm

    Off Topic, but for GoT fans…

    Joffrey gets poisoned and dies*

    *spoiler alert

  208. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 8:35 pm

    They seek him here, they seek him there
    Those hackers seek him everywhere
    Is he in the sea, or in a Liberal chorus?
    That damned elusive … Walrus

  209. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 8:35 pm

    GoT … chuckle! Actually 😆

  210. Tom R permalink
    March 4, 2015 8:47 pm

    spoiler alert

    You understand that, for GoT’s, a spoiler alert is when you reveal that a major character doesn’t die, don’t you?

  211. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 8:52 pm

    No dissent allowed on qantas’ teamstralia!

    Qantas passenger banned after asylum seeker walkout:
    http://www.theage.com.au/national/qantas-passenger-banned-after-asylum-seeker-walkout-20150302-13svcn.html

  212. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 4, 2015 8:56 pm
  213. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 9:10 pm

    Fair enough, if you want to protest don’t use an aircraft to do it. There are some aviation laws about that.

  214. TB Queensland permalink
    March 4, 2015 10:10 pm

    You understand that, for GoT’s, a spoiler alert is when you reveal that a major character doesn’t die, don’t you?

    Obvious you’re not a fan too, TR …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Fair enough, if you want to protest don’t use an aircraft to do it. There are some aviation laws about that.

    Erm … the guys got off BECAUSE of the protesters … and were penalised for it by what used to be my favourite national carrier … demonstrates management mindset power and control …

    Comprehension … -0 … or just typically (confused) ?

  215. Walrus permalink
    March 4, 2015 10:15 pm

    “LOL! He’s a fkn pirate! LOL! :

    No actually

    There are a number of reasons for it. Mainly because 14 tenants are government organisations.

    Anyway I won’t go into it as they kind of rent out wifi usage Based upon their leftovers per month.

  216. Walrus permalink
    March 4, 2015 10:20 pm

    ” … the guys got off BECAUSE of the protesters …”

    Wrong as usual

    They have already been on Sydney radio giving the Julian Burnside bleeding heart BS.

    The bloke has been assessed as not eligible for refugee status.

    What the fuck do you want our border policy to look like.

    Open borders again?

    Fucking Bolsheviks !

  217. March 4, 2015 10:34 pm

    Tony’s free trade agreement in action..A Gina 457 childcare baby in action….

  218. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 4, 2015 10:48 pm

    I was under the impression that you were interested in safety TB.

    Passengers are required by aviation safety regulation to comply with the directions of cabin crew (who are sporoved by CASA to issue instructions)

    Protest outside the airport, at the gate anywhere you like but not on board an aircraft about to take off.

  219. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 12:09 am

    Wally and ToM … the passenger referred to was NOT protesting … ya pair of dicks … comprehension level …FMD … he just wanted to get off the plane with what was going on … and has been banned by QANTAS … nothing to do with being a protester … just a passenger not comfortable with what was happening …

    Mr Leary, who has worked as a human relations executive for 25 years and now works for a social justice organisation, said he and his colleague did not have any links to asylum seeker advocacy groups and did not know there would be an asylum seeker on the flight.

    He said they at no point tried to disrupt or delay the flight and were not directed to leave the plane ….

    … Mr Leary said a Qantas manager told them they could not board their flight because they were subject to a no-fly ban and a security review.

    In a letter sent a fortnight after the initial incident, Qantas informed Mr Leary that the ban would be in place until further notice while the security review was undertaken.

    “Your actions are unacceptable and will not be tolerated,” the letter said.

    The flight ban applies to all Qantas or Jetstar flights as well as any codeshare flight operated by another airline, such as Emirates. Mr Leary’s Qantas Club and Frequent Flyer membership has been also suspended.

    Too tied up with politics to get the real issue —- QANTAS’ poor customer service!

  220. March 5, 2015 1:03 am

    That’s why I dont blog on certain sites.
    And when I have posted on that fucking dirtbag Miglos site in the long distant past I’ve always done it from my timeshare office under a different hotmail and IP address (the office has 10 IP addresses for reasons I wont bore you with)
    I think the stupid cunt and his equally stupid wife thought they had my ID once.
    That made me laugh.
    Those 2 stupid cunts deserve themselves.

    Well Wally if you are so smart and so clever why would you write something so patently, inflammatory and defamatory against an individual and his spouse then brag about the explanation of how you have done it in a public blog no less? That’s pretty dumb and cowardly actually. Why even bring it up?

    My point is nobody is anonymous unless you actually know how to be and its very very complicated process… far beyond your ,serviced office IP shield of steel master plan…

    I make no secret of who I am, I prefer it like that. I may have plenty of alias’s you would never know just as you dont know who is reading your posts.

  221. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 5, 2015 1:15 am

  222. March 5, 2015 5:52 am

    l see `our` corporate deep-throater is spouting nonsense of the `vague` variety again,

    yomm”””””””””I merely replied that people have the `right`# to strike, but if they sign an agreement without specifically identifying that they retain the #`right` to stop work/strike/protest, they’ve probably lost that #`right.”””””””””””’

    # what a half-wit. lf something is a `right`, by that definition, it is `not-on-the-table` for corporates to be able to `negotiate-away` from weaker or more desperate parties.

  223. March 5, 2015 6:24 am

    ””””””””…That boss can’t simply require employees to work without pay…””

    But in practice they do.

    They just don’t put it in writing.”””””””””’

    # both yes and no here folks, yes, put in writing, yes, work for `free`, they are called `interns`, no, job-advert didn`t say `work-for-free`, when at interview, was asked to be an `intern`, just plain dis-honest corporate bludging and time wasting in my case, happened about 4-times over the years, another aspect `our` know-nothing will never discuss either

  224. March 5, 2015 6:39 am

    yomm”””””””””’Join the real world Ricky, you don’t think workers at a (say Latrobe Valley) power station would all stop work for a day if their union recommended this???”””””””””””’

    # guffaw, isn`t `latrobe` the fcuking joint that burnt recently, blanketing the community/town/own-workforce in toxic/harmful smoke and ash.? Could teh-onions have been kicking-up on reckless corporate `safety` grounds.? #show.me.the.know.nothing #corporate.deep.throating

  225. March 5, 2015 7:05 am

    This is a fine display of half-wittery,

    yomm”””””””””So far no one has bothered to address the issue that started this discussion –

    1. If unions demand the right to take industrial action as a form of protest,””””””””””’

    # A `right` is a `right`, which cannot be `assumed` not to exist, which `all` your previous bleating above tries to indicate the opposite/wrong

    #and here too

    ””””””why do they(onions/workers) give away that right by making agreements that don’t provide the right?”””””””””

    # As a corporate deep-throater, you word this backwards. A contract/agreement is a `contract`, and deals with the specifics detailed within it.

    # lf biz wants workers to surrender a trade-able `right`, why is biz signing `contacts` that don`t contain the `details` in the `contract`.?

    +

    yomm””””””2. If unions demand the right to take industrial action as a form of protest, why do they expose their members to personal litigation by encouraging unprotected industrial action?”””””’

    # This is idiotic, onions take `action` on behalf of workers, often on `safety`, the corporations need to give workers notice when they are going to kill one of them in a trench collapse (this-week) or have a wall collapse on folks (grollo) and then the workers can give notice about the next `strike` day. #fcuking.imbecile

  226. March 5, 2015 7:34 am

    ””””””@Roymorganonline has long claimed official jobless rates are a lie. Here’s how they see it.

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6097-roy-morgan-unemployment-february-2015-201503040408?utm_source=&utm_medium=twfbgp&utm_campaign=6097&sc_camp=E1EAC374BB714ADE832D9FB6F9F7CF19 ”””””””””””

    # nice find armchair, l usually don`t like these `survey` type conclusions, l would much rather `full` disclosure from dole-office database, even tho roys guestimates are more like my guestimates the the Aust Burro Surveys.

    roy”””””””””””’After this month’s rise the latest Roy Morgan unemployment estimate of 11.0% is a substantial 4.6% higher than the figure currently quoted by the ABS for January 2015 (6.4%).””””””””

    #okay

    +

    roy””””””””””’This Roy Morgan survey on Australia’s unemployment and ‘under-employed’* is based on weekly face-to-face interviews of 420,148 Australians aged 14 and over between January 2007 – February 2015 and includes 4,027 face-to-face interviews in February 2015.”””””””””

    # roy seems to be doing better surveys, but still doesn`t fill me with confidence.

  227. March 5, 2015 7:44 am

    ””””””In February 2015 Roy Morgan Unemployment is 11.0%:

    * 12,526,000 Australians are in the workforce (down 139,000 since February 2014); * 11,145,000 Australians are employed (up 41,000 since February 2014); * 7,403,000 Australians are employed full-time (up 85,000 since February 2014; * 3,742,000 Australians are employed part-time (down 44,000 since February 2014); * 1,381,000 Australians are looking for work (11.0% of the workforce, down 180,000 since February 2014); * 1,161,000 Australians are under-employed, working part-time and looking for more hours – (9.3% of the workforce), up 81,000 since February 2014;””””””””””””

    +

    roy”””””””* 2,542,000 Australians are unemployed or under-employed – (20.3% of the workforce), down 99,000 since February 2014.””””””’

    # hey teebz, take a look at the `full-time`, only about 60%, while eroding `full-time` employment, teabags also erode consumer base.

  228. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 8:41 am

    “”That’s pretty dumb and cowardly actually. Why even bring it up?”

    No……………I think I’d reserve that judgement for arseholes who disclose the identities of others on Blogs.

    I’m looking at YOU

  229. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 8:45 am

    “”…..why would you write something so patently, inflammatory and defamatory…”

    Perhaps you would like to see a collection of quotes and dates and links of what they have said about moi in the past LOL?

  230. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 5, 2015 8:52 am

    Cruel and bizarre – Indonesia plays the tough guy in transporting 2 handcuffed prisoners to the place they will legally be shot to death –

    Chan and Sukumaran got special treatment in their high-impact transfer, the type no other foreign death-row drug trafficker has ever received in this country.
    Just before 6am, local time, fighter jets began taking off, followed by the ATR, for their flight west to the southern Java city of Cilacap, close by the prison island of Nusakambangan.

    The jets, which over the last week had been making deliberate flyovers of Kerobokan prison, presumably for the benefit of the Australian media stationed there, were on Tuesday loaded and locked with what appeared to be sidewinder missiles.

    Altogether hundreds of police and military were involved in the operation. The United States Navy Seals used less men and equipment to kill Osama bin Laden.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/bali-nine-duos-last-days-andrew-chan-and-myuran-sukumarans-road-to-execution/story-fncynjr2-1227248160361

  231. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 5, 2015 9:11 am

    This blog sites promotes lively discussion and people are entitled to participate in the manner they prefer, without having their personal details published.

    If Ricky or anyone else wants to post without anonymity that’s fine, but posting individual details goes beyond rigorous debate and exchange.

    Some f**kwits (that run another blog) have used the publication of personal details to avoid political debate – they prefer to scare off (or ban) their debating opponents because they aren’t smart enough to hold their own on the basis of their intellect.

    I don’t think that’s the practice here.

  232. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 9:39 am

    Full disclosure

    I am me 🙂

    Perhaps you would like to see a collection of quotes and dates and links of what they have said about moi in the past LOL?

    That would be fun I’ll admit. We could perhaps debate their relative accuracies 😉

  233. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 9:40 am

    Obvious you’re not a fan too, TR …

    Actually, I’m loving the series, although, what foxtel is doing with it here is abhorrent, and a further example of why a monopoly like this shouldn’t exist. murdochs a dick, even though he probably isn’t the one who makes those sorts of decisions, it is easy to see that his influence has rubbed off.

    I had read the books years ago, and, once Ned was knocked off, never really got back into them as much as I had that first book, as he seemed so central to the story. Kudos to the author for doing it though, he really has turned it all on its head. And, I kept reading until what I thought was the end, and was bitterly disappointed when I found that the end is not really the end. And, the fact that I kept reading is also a testament to the authors writing, and his ability to recreate his story from the most unexpected (yet truthfully, most realistic) events.

    I think I’ll just watch the series now though over reading the story, as I find the series far better structured (imo) and easier to accept the vast array of characters being thrown in, and then just as quickly dispatched. In reality, it’s probably that I’m just lazy 🙂

    I’m not convinced we have seen the end of Ned either. But it was all worth it imo, just for reactions like this. 🙂

  234. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 9:49 am

    “”We could perhaps debate their relative accuracies ;)””

    Stop verballing me !

    Link me to where I said they were inaccurate .

    LOL

  235. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 9:59 am

    Link me to where I said they were inaccurate .

    Stop verballing me !

    Link me to where I said that you said that they were inaccurate .

    ROFL

  236. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 9:59 am

    I’d like to argue the case for bringing back the carbon tax.

    http://theconversation.com/for-this-generation-and-the-next-its-time-to-bring-back-the-carbon-tax-38224

    And then asks

    Where did the revenue go?

    Well hockey, where?

  237. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:03 am

    Considering yabots posturing over his plane searches, this exposes his true miserly conduct, and how quickly his ‘friends’ are discarded.

    Australia’s research community has implored Tony Abbott to deliver the $150 million he promised to a group of world-class research facilities in the last federal budget, warning many facilities are preparing to close, a situation that will have “immense” consequences for the country’s research effort.

    http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/billiondollar-research-facilities-on-verge-of-closure-without-promised-funds-20150304-13ur2m.html

    But, like the RET, any decision now is probably too late for many, the damage has already been done by their intransigence.

  238. March 5, 2015 10:11 am

    ””””I’d like to argue the case for bringing back the carbon tax”””””’

    #l suppose team-cheerers would, as long as it is seen as `glory` for their team. The article is the usual blather, that won`t fix the `revenue` root-cause, and without the revenue, ya`won`t `fix` anything else.

  239. March 5, 2015 10:12 am

    I’m looking at YOU

    Why would that concern me? I know your type all too well..you’re just a trumped up coward accountant full of piss, wind and your own self importance.. I mean seriously what are you gonna do? put fresh batteries in your calculator? sharpen a pencil? Replenish your in tray? Rally the Roterians?. 🙄

    Walrus it is evident you are obsessed with Micheal Taylor.. you are suffering from rejection separation syndrome.. why else would you bring it up? get over it… Do you need a hug sweetie?

    If Ricky or anyone else wants to post without anonymity that’s fine, but posting individual details goes beyond rigorous debate and exchange.

    Really interesting assertion Tom but does Nil debate? Does Walrus debate for that matter?
    I don’t see much exchange other than rusted on partisan polar opinion with certain individuals. I’m not sticking up for Migs, that’s his battle not mine. however..

    I will stand up to myself and I knew that post would be deleted, that was the point of posting it. Seems to have scared Nils off for a microsecond and serve to remind people they are human and fallible in this electronic graffiti world. But I realise you cant reason with an imbecile.

    I take great offence to someone consistently using the derogatory language of moral superiority in the vindictive.and . Especially when it is inanely repetitive after they are asked to stop then don’t. That suggests mental deficiency…

    I have no time for narcissists…and I treat narcissism with the contempt it deserves
    I have no problem with sarcasm, that is Australia’s national sport…

  240. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:16 am

    …and this is the 30 year old woman from the Philippines that Indonesia will shoot, Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso-

  241. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:20 am

    “”…………..you’re just a trumped up coward accountant full of piss, wind and your own self importance “”

    LOL

    “”I take great offence to someone consistently using the derogatory language of moral superiority in the vindictive.and ……..””

    WOW…………………just WOW

    You such a fucking hypocrite !

    I seem to recall you launching completely unprovoked attacks on Egg and her genitalia.

    You moron !

  242. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:23 am

    “”Walrus it is evident you are obsessed with Micheal Taylor…””

    Not really. I just get reminded of his disgusting antics in disclosing personal details of others on his blog when his disclaimer promises otherwise.

    Seems to be a disgusting habit of the extreme Left

    Yep………………I’m looking at YOU again.

  243. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:25 am

    “”I treat narcissism with the contempt it deserves””

    You must scream at mirrors alot

  244. March 5, 2015 10:28 am

    l find the teabags bleating about their coffee-shop eviction absolutely hilarious ricky, they`re obviously `still` stinging from it, even tho they don`t particularly like the coffee-sippers. What a bunch of screwy tea-guzzlers!

  245. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:28 am

    Actually, I’m loving the series …

    Good … I was referring to the spoiler alert from, sreb, ’tis a bit late dontcha think?

    BTW, the BD disks have hit the shelves JBHiFi seems to be the best around (oddly enough) @ $53.00 …

    ==========================================

    But, like the RET, any decision now is probably too late for many, the damage has already been done by their intransigence.

    So much damage in so short a time too!

    And the next instalment is about to hit the shelves – The Intergenerational Report – hasn’t been sitting around gathering dust … I suspect … a little tweak here, a little tweak there …

    And I read where it will include “what COULD have happened under Labor” … why? We’re not “under” Labor … gone, finite … move on … most backward looking government I’ve ever seen …

    … FFS its like watching a bunch of high school kids rewrite fairy stories for the local kindergarten … just to soften the kiddies up for lunch box heists …

    Everything is political with, The Mad Abbott …

    As for the ageing population … astounding that everyone has just realised this fact … 2015 minus 1945 equals 70 FKN! years we’ve known about baby boomers and should have been able to plan for the increase in funeral parlours (parlour?) at least!

    The incompetence of politicians is mind numbing … absofknlutely mind boggling …

    Soylent Green anyone?

  246. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:33 am

    “”I find the teabags bleating about their coffee-shop eviction absolutely hilarious ricky,””

    LOL……………….Wrong !

    I did post once under another name on one specific day on a different IP to that I would usually use. That was for a specific purpose

    Other than that I don’t recall ever posting there ?

  247. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:42 am

    that won`t fix the `revenue` root-cause, and without the revenue

    Really didn’t read the article too closely, did ya!

    So, what is the “root-cause”?

  248. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:46 am

    Onya Nan’

    The Republic of Ireland has become the first country in Europe to pass legislation requiring cigarettes to be sold in plain packets.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31722210

    Queue the Irish Nationals furtively counted coloured boxes to prove how much of a failure it is, while their kiddies get the chance to breathe.

  249. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:47 am

    “”….and should have been able to plan for the increase in funeral parlours (parlour?) at least!’

    Perhaps I could interest you in an ASX listed certainty……………………….LOL

    http://invocare.com.au

  250. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:59 am

    But, but, but… everyone knows that plain packaging makes people smoke more! And that stuff in contraband cigarettes doesn’t have the full flavour and health benefits of smokes in real brightly coloured packs.

    You’re just barracking for that teabag anti smoking lobby and nanny roxon.

  251. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 5, 2015 11:07 am

    Is nanny roxon Irish?

  252. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 5, 2015 11:24 am

    Apparently i am not allowed to post anymore because i offend somebody.

    Is this correct?

  253. March 5, 2015 11:29 am

    ””””So, what is the `root-cause`?””””

    #The regressive tax system. All these other ideas, super-profit, carbon-tax, increase-gst-20%, are really just fcuking about at the edges. Govts (both-flavors) have failed to harvest a proper tax-rate (loop-holes,havens) from many business monsters.

  254. March 5, 2015 11:29 am

    WOW…………………just WOW.. yada yada yada

    Just as I thought Walrus obsessed.. send him some flowers sweetheart, I know you’re hurting 🙄

    Wally seriously, the moral high ground? moralist? That’s priceless
    I see I’ve hit a nerve as you have used the rather inane go to phrase of the phased.. extreme left?

    I’m sorry for challenging you anonymous sand castle.. it must be upsetting to realise you are helplessly clueless when you assume you have everything and everyone worked out…

    What made you so nasty Wally, other kids rejection in the sandpit? not enough breast?.Do you need a hug?

  255. March 5, 2015 11:36 am

    “”Is this correct?””

    Not at all.

  256. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 11:41 am

    “”Is this correct?””

    Yes it is …

  257. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 11:41 am

    “”What made you so nasty Wally””

    The buttons on my cardigans keep falling off.

  258. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 5, 2015 11:41 am

    Thanks REb

    Here is a moment when that nasty Obama is trying to tongue our Julia

    https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6kp3RFW4-5in4Sd8PvMR0zmUTTBrQFWtTkthdcQqH7cm7O-t4

  259. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 11:43 am

    “”Apparently i am not allowed to post anymore because i offend somebody.””

    Apparently Commos have thin skins

  260. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 11:55 am

    Apparently Commos have thin skins …

    Do you know any Commos? WTF are you ranting about now, Willy?

  261. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 12:05 pm

    “”Do you know any Commos? ”

    No. But I know of at least one. Two if ya count Lee Rhiannon

    I don’t live inner city and they cant afford my neighbourhood

  262. March 5, 2015 12:06 pm

    ”””’The Republic of Ireland has”””’nanny-roxon style military-grade packaging. #Go.Team What l will find interesting is if a boot-leg trade blooms between Northern-Ireland and the republic. That will depend on the tax tho, which the report didn`t mention.

  263. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 12:12 pm

    Planning an Irish walking Holiday teambagger?

    You might end up making it a world tour the way other countries are hopping onto the nanny packaging team 😉

  264. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 12:19 pm

    fyi’s for those with no life

  265. March 5, 2015 12:25 pm

    Commo? Postcode envy?.. oh dear evasive emotional deflection…
    Get over yourself and your Migloo love affair you insidious bore of insignificance. 🙂

    I see Nils back with the profound and pressing issues of this generation…

  266. March 5, 2015 12:41 pm

    “”Thanks REb””

    You’re welcome Neil..

    I may not agree with everything you say, but I will defend to your death your right to be ridiculed for saying it.

  267. March 5, 2015 12:45 pm

    ”””””””’I will defend to your death your right to be ridiculed for saying it.””””””’

    ROFL That`s Excellent. #ditto

  268. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 12:51 pm

    but I will defend to your death your right to be ridiculed for saying it.

    lol

  269. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 5, 2015 12:58 pm

    Stupid teabagz are intent on imposing their corporate teabagz view of the world by having plain packaging for cigarettes.

    nanny Roxon just plays along with the corporate teabagz but banning the nice, colourful cigarette packs, which is just what the teabaz want.

    also ###### and “””””””teabagz”””””””

  270. armchair opionator permalink
    March 5, 2015 1:06 pm

    “…“”What made you so nasty Wally””
    The buttons on my cardigans keep falling off…”

    hahaha, very funny!

    However, I did listen to a radio program where people talked about our digital future.

    Apparently the first occupation to go in a digital world will be accountants!

  271. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 1:07 pm

    Next it will be cars all painted black with two cylinder diesel engines … what is the world coming to …

    ===============================

    I don’t live inner city and they cant afford my neighbourhood

    Do we fkn care?

  272. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 1:11 pm

    Oh, dear …

    Mr Adeang said they had also disrespected Nauru’s Christian culture by protesting on Sunday.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/almost-200-refugees-arrested-on-nauru/story-e6frfku9-1227248959264

    If the locals were all at church, what traffic was held up I wonder?

  273. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 1:17 pm

    A tale of two reports, or a tail off too reportings?

    Treasurer Joe Hockey yesterday issued a call to arms for workers to delay their ­retirement until after 65 to ­future-proof the nation for the coming generations.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/joe-hockey-asks-aussie-workers-to-save-the-nation-by-delaying-retirement-until-after-65/story-fni0cx12-1227248477501#social-comments

    RUN TO THE HEELS, THE OLD PEOPLE ARE BLUDGING

    Elsewhere though

    Sorry, Joe but I’m still on my chair. This intergenerational report is not very scary.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/mar/05/intergenerational-report-everyone-remain-seated-its-not-very-scary?CMP=share_btn_tw

  274. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 1:19 pm

  275. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 1:50 pm

    (The club btw has not changed its policy)

    Big Fucking Deal

    There are Fitness Clubs that are strictly female only.

    In Coogee there is a cliff side pool which is strictly female only

    So Big Fucking Deal if its Men only !

    Get over it !

  276. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 1:52 pm

    “Apparently the first occupation to go in a digital world will be accountants!”

    Certainly at the lower level. But certainly not further up the food chain.

    And the oldest profession will be replaced by cyborg-babes.

  277. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 1:56 pm

    “Elsewhere though”

    So you now accept the pension age will need to be 70. Otherwise why link to the article since Lenore Taylor is stating that is what it will be.

    I think you just “selfie wedged” yaself………….LOL

  278. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 2:04 pm

    So you now accept the pension age will need to be 70

    No, and neither does the author, she is simply stating a fact that is outlined in the current settings.

    Big Fucking Deal

    Perhaps this is it? from what yabot maoned

    that bastion of old fashioned chauvinism has finally collapsed

    When in fact, nothing at all had changed. Women were always allowed to go (well, for a long time at least) but only if a male they know is a member and allows them.

    He has claimed some sort of advancement, when in reality nothing has changed.

    He’s just rambling bullshit in QT again, and no reporter seems capable of calling him on his bullshit.

  279. public toilet permalink
    March 5, 2015 2:21 pm

    Some ‘reporters ‘ (cough, Andrew Blot ) are indeed wanking along with Abbott, like it’s the cleverest retort theyve ever encountered.

    The irony of the Minister for Women and the venue is lost on entrenched partisan arsehats apparently.

  280. public toilet permalink
    March 5, 2015 2:24 pm

    I’m pretty sure hockey held off the release of that report for a month while he rewrote it into a political document designed to stifle dissent of his failed budget & manufacture consent for his next one.

  281. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 3:07 pm

    I wonder if, in all the discussion about the rampart agedness of our population, if compulsory super will ever get a look in again?

    Something Labor should be talking loudly about imo

  282. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 5, 2015 4:14 pm

    I plan to retire when people discover they could pay someone about 1/3 as much.

  283. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 4:23 pm

    “…………Women were always allowed to go (well, for a long time at least) but only if a male they know is a member and allows them………”

    Dont blame Abbott. Blame that idiot called Shorten. He made a dope of himself yet again by bringing the subject up during QT.

    Or did you conveniently forget that bit…………….of course you did

  284. March 5, 2015 4:47 pm

    OT:

    I had a late lunch today and ended up paying $10.50 for an apple and brie sandwich.

    $10.50

    FOR A FUCKEN SANDWICH!!

    Do you know what that is…….??

  285. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 4:56 pm

    Apple, brie and bread and – butter?

    About a $1 worth of tucker and $2 worth of labour … rent, advertising, power, water, rates its a hard world to make sandwiches in!

    erm, ya can’t actually be OT on this blog, sreb … impossibility …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    BTW, who was it, in 1961, that predicted we would go to war in Afghanistan?

  286. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 5:28 pm

    “Do you know what that is…….??”

    A brie and apple sandwich…?………sounds like heart attack material.

    At least your teeth will be in good nick I spose

    Where did you buy it………..the Cardiac Cafe ?

  287. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 5, 2015 5:32 pm

    …The irony of the Minister for Women and the venue is lost on entrenched partisan arsehats apparently…

    And those fkn indulged and privileged white lib women had the indecency to compare themselves to rosa parks

    LNP Women at men-only club a ‘Rosa Parks moment’
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/lnp-women-at-menonly-club-a-rosa-parks-moment-20150305-13vbmf.html

    In defending the choice to use Tattersall’s, LNP Women vice-president Peta Simpson cited Rosa Parks, the African-American woman who famously refused to give up her bus seat to a white passenger in Alabama and became a symbol of the American civil rights movement…

    comments:

    …They’re certainly devoid of common sense, that’s for sure. I mean, really? Comparing themselves to Rosa Parks? Because she TOTALLY stood for the right for privileged white women to have lunch at whatever exclusive club took their fancy, didn’t she?
    Honestly, you couldn’t make this stuff up!
    CommenterEmilyA Date and time Wed Mar 04 22:08:16 UTC 2015

    It is an insult to Rosa Parks to tag this event as anything else than a meeting of self righteous middle class Ascot/ Hamilton socialites who have never met anyone from the marginalised outsiders that suffer daily in our society.
    What a travesty.
    CommenterSeamus Location Maryborough Date and time March 05, 2015, 6:31AM…

  288. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 5:33 pm

    Dont blame Abbott

    Why not, he’s the idiot lying and bragging about a bunch of blue ties holding a womens forum in club that only allows men as members. That alone is pathetic enough, but to have the pm brag about it, and pretend that this is somehow breaking down barriers is just adding insult to injury

    And then they wonder why they are called misogynists? Fuck, it’s patently obvious how they got that handle.

    Good on Shorten for highlighting it, shame on our media for allowing yabot to get away with bullshit again.

  289. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 5:34 pm

    Do you know what that is…….??

    The libs preferred minimum wage?

  290. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 5:35 pm

    LNP Women at men-only club a ‘Rosa Parks moment’

    I think they are called ‘enablers’.

  291. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 5:41 pm

    BTW, who was it, in 1961, that predicted we would go to war in Afghanistan?

  292. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 6:22 pm

    From KL’s link … March 5, 2015 3:51 pm

    One of the comments … actually “get’s it”

    Actually, no. While I would support the policy proposals Nick Reece puts forward, I think he has the analysis all wrong. The situation needs to be looked at through the prism of class, not age:

    * Working class baby boomers didn’t buy rental properties and get into negative gearing. This strategy only works when you have substantial free cash flow after living expenses that can be used to fund the rental loss you’re making, since the capital gain is tied up in real estate that won’t pay the bills until it’s sold.

    * Working class baby boomers don’t get anywhere near the concessions from superannuation that wealthy people do. For that, you need to be able to salary sacrifice large sums, which again requires a substantial free cash flow after living expenses. Certainly, working class empty nesters can do a bit of salary sacrifice in the last few years before they retire, but it’s nothing compared to the amounts executives and business people can put away.

    * Most Gen Ys are finding it hard to get into the property market without assistance. Gen Ys with wealthy parents can get gifts or subordinated loans from them. Gen Ys with working class parents can get little or no assistance. Free accommodation is probably the best they can hope for – but that can often cramp the love life and be a long way from work.

    Finally, it must be recognised that the assault on the welfare state began decades ago, well before Parliament filled up with baby boomers. It has been driven by Big Business, not intergenerational theft.

    It is class that is the elephant in the room. Let’s start talking about it.

    The “intergeneration” targeting is really a tory furphy … the comment below comes closer to the real issues and it ain’t me, my kids or my grandchildren … we all know the reality … seems someone is trying to rewrite history …

    … took us three years to save the deposit – 25% – on our first home by living with our parents with our two kids … I completed my five year apprenticeship at 21 (I went to work @ 141/2) … the same year I married The Minister for War, Water, Finance & Fun … our daughter was born the following year

    At 22 I served Australia* for two years (my income dropped from $280 per fortnight to $80 pfn and that to support a wife and child pay off a car loan and pay off a block of dirt)

    Took us eleven years to pay off the first home … and we’ve lived here for just over 30 … I remember those days of 16% mortgage rates too …

    My five year distance ed part time degree cost me in excess of $30K … I graduated @ 45.

    We started our business – working from home.

    The next sixteen years I travelled Australia and the world working 12-15 hour days – fly out on Thursday back on Tuesday morning and back out on Thursday … The Minister was the backbone of our business … we retired when we believed we had enough … not when we had enough twice or thrice over … if I wanted to go back to work today … just couldn’t happen …

    The money that successive governments seem to have “lost” or “spent” hasn’t gone to the average baby boomer … nor the gen Xrs … its gone to the Robber Barons who rape our society and do little or nothing for it … politicians, big business, banks, churches the list is long … now its power companies and water suppliers …

    Believe the intergenerational theft nonsense at your peril … the theft is rich versus the poor and poorer!

    What you are really seeing is blameshifting of the worst kind … to set ordinary Australians against each other … the target are the people benefitting from Family Trusts, Negative gearing, Post Pollies Perqs, Big Business Tax Breaks, Graft, Corruption and Overseas Companies playing us for fools …

    Intergenerational theft my arse – its been going on for centuries, nay millenia … and all those generations in between …

    The rich get richer and the poor starve … just read history …

    *I became an Australian citizen in 1978!

  293. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 6:34 pm

    “BTW, who was it, in 1961, that predicted we would go to war in Afghanistan?”

    Who the fuck gives a rats arse ?

  294. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 6:37 pm

    “… its gone to the Robber Barons who rape our society and do little or nothing for it … politicians, big business, banks, churches the list is long … now its power companies and water suppliers … ”

    Yawn Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !

  295. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 7:23 pm

    Who the fuck gives a rats arse ?

    That’s the answer to who can and can’t live where you live, Willy …

    I need the answer to this question:

    Who was it, in 1961, that predicted we would go to war in Afghanistan?”

    Yawn Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !

    Apologies, Willy, I forgot:

    ♠ tax advisors
    ♣ tax planners
    ♥ financial advisors
    ♦ financial planners
    ♠ fund mangers
    ♣ property managers
    ♥ accountants ; and
    ♦ any other shiny arse that shifts other people’s money around like roulette, gambling someone else’s hard earned cash and skimming as much as possible without before being caught …

  296. Tom R permalink
    March 5, 2015 7:27 pm

    its gone to the Robber Barons who rape our society and do little or nothing for it

    Well said TB, it hits it right where the issue is. No wonder wally wants to sleep through that sort of analysis, hits a bit too close to home for comfort 😉

  297. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 7:47 pm

    Thanks, TR, the way Hockey is handling the Intergenerational Report smacks of The John Howard Divide and Conquer Strategy … he did it throughout his sad and misinformed reign …

    … if any Australians believe Hockey can control his portfolio competently then they need to consider if he could advise them on their own budget …

    And while I know Swan was a noice bloke … I wouldn’t let him near our accounts nor his silly predecessor …

    And finally …

    Who was it, in 1961, that predicted Australia would go to war in Afghanistan?

  298. March 5, 2015 7:53 pm

    FMD A candlelit vigil for the Bali duo is all going a bit too far.

    They’re being treated like hard done by national heroes…

    They’re convicted criminals FFS. #ABC730

  299. egg permalink
    March 5, 2015 8:07 pm

    ‘And the oldest profession will be replaced by cyborg-babes.’

    tru dat

  300. March 5, 2015 8:08 pm

    REMEMBERING THE ANZACS!

    Just when you thought there was nothing left to be said, The Gutter Trash presents a new seventy part documentary on the history of the ANZACS!

    Featuring EXCLUSIVE never seen before footage! We interview a carrot that was growing on the side of a hill in Austria for its unique perspective on “our” Australian diggers.

    “It was terrible” said the carrot. “Lest we forget.”

    ALL THIS AND MORE… When we bring you “Remembering the Anzacs. The forgotten memoirs of a variety of root vegetables.”

  301. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 8:11 pm

    I’ll be lighting a candle … for all the innocent lives that have been spared …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    AUSTRALIAN shipbuilders have been thrown a lifeline with the government inviting tenders for construction of up to 21 new patrol boats worth almost $600 million.

    THESE will be donated to Pacific nations to replace older vessels constructed in the period 1987-97 but now reaching the end of their lives.

    erm … over half a billion dollars and then their through-life support was estimated at $1.38 billion over 30 years.

    erm … I thought we had no money???

    Are you confusingly yet? … you bet you are, you bet I am …

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/aussie-shipyards-to-build-21-patrol-boats/story-e6frfku9-1227248937634

  302. March 5, 2015 8:12 pm

    “Who was it, in 1961, that predicted Australia would go to war in Afghanistan?”

    FFS, I’ll bite. Who (GAF)?

  303. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 8:12 pm

    😯

    You back on the shiraz, Jummy?

  304. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 8:13 pm

    Wrong answer, ToSY … well its not an answer its a question about a question … but close …

  305. March 5, 2015 8:14 pm

    I’m conducting a downlight vigil.

  306. March 5, 2015 8:30 pm

    What’s a candlelit vigil without a short haired lesbian playing an acoustic guitar?

    These so-called politicians are rank amateurs when it comes to this sort of thing. Even Bill Shorten’s copying Abbott’s “style” of saying everything twice, like somehow it gives the statement extra gravitas.

    WE HEARD YOU THE FIRST TIME CUNT!

  307. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 5, 2015 8:32 pm

    The John Howard Divide and Conquer Strategy … he did it throughout his sad and misinformed reign …

    It was actually a great time. Anybody who wanted a job could get one. Your incapable of admitting this.

    It was the Rudd/Gillard reign that was a disaster. The Coalition is having trouble putting humpty dumpty back together

    And while I know Swan was a noice bloke

    Swan was a pathological liar. The worst and most dishonest Treasurer in Australian history.

    But he suits the ALP and the people who voted for him.

  308. March 5, 2015 8:33 pm

    “”I’m conducting a downlight vigil.””

    Me too ToSY..

    We’re also having some communion wine.

  309. March 5, 2015 8:34 pm

    “” Your incapable “”

    Would you like to rephrase that…?

  310. March 5, 2015 10:01 pm

    FMD””””””””A candlelit vigil for the Bali duo is all going a bit too far. They’re being treated like hard done by national heroes. They’re convicted criminals FFS. #ABC730””””””””””’

    # Yeah agree, it`s pathetic. One thing l think all this `anti-lndo` noise teabag-media and canberra-clowns are running with will cause; the next `corby` or bunch of donkeys caught drug running; lndo will execute the lot of`em(9/9ths). Highly fcuking stupid considering lndo is only knocking-off the two `leaders` and 7/9ths weren`t sentenced to death.

  311. Walrus permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:12 pm

    Good to see Egg is Baaaaaack.

    And I still don’t give even a flying ratsarse about what was predicted in 1961.

    I’m sure we are ALL supposed to be in flying Jetson cars.

    And what the fuck happened to the paperless society. It seems to me the paper these days are full of latex.

    Arseholes still pay me an upfront payment by cheques. And rubber is so common they still bounce.

  312. March 5, 2015 10:20 pm

    “Good to see Egg is Baaaaaack.”

    I concur.

  313. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:29 pm

    “Good to see Egg is Baaaaaack.”

    Nuh, I just thought “reb, what the fck have you done?”

  314. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 5, 2015 10:33 pm

    Bloody short memories is all I can say.

  315. March 5, 2015 10:36 pm

    ‘Nuh, I just thought “reb, what the fck have you done?”’

    We’re all just pixels words on a page.

    How is silencing the writer the best way of dealing with their words?

  316. March 5, 2015 10:38 pm

    Only the weak of mind could be afraid of words.

  317. TB Queensland permalink
    March 5, 2015 11:12 pm

    Its not words per se, ToSY … its the repetitious repetition that repeats on everyone!

    Know the answer yet … clue: its linked to the Intergenerational Report …

  318. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 5, 2015 11:26 pm

    Not afraid of any words.

    I don’t need to feed the insatiable appetite of someone with an obvious narcissistic personality disorder.

    Why should you expect reb to get to point of despair and closure of this blog just so a non-apologetic, repeat, repeat and repeat again offender can ply his trade in deceit, manipulation and control.

    You engage if you want, I wouldn’t give him/her the time of day.

    Why don’t you start a blog and let him/her rip if you enjoy it’s ‘words’ so much?

  319. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 7:12 am

    I see the abc is doing hockeys Labor bashing for them still. Really, these people are Muppets.

    SABRA LANE: The previous report shows under what it terms “previous policy”, which is the last Labor government, Australia would never have reached a surplus by 2055.

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4192193.htm

    No dopey, as Lenore Taylor already had pointed out, if you were not too busy to notice, it is NOT “the last Labor government” at all, it hockeys first MYEFO, which was vastly different from “the last Labor government”. You, being the journalist, should be pointing that out, not re-enforcing their lie.

    This is what Lenore Taylor said

    The “previous (ie Labor) policy” situation looks even scarier (deficit of 11.7% of GDP by 2055, net debt of 112% of GDP). However, this is not only based on the idea that governments would sit on their hands for four decades, but also starts not from the former government’s final budget position as revealed by treasury and finance in the pre-election economic forecast, but on the new Coalition government’s first mini-budget at the end of 2013. Those decisons made the deficit much worse – it was 1.9% of GDP but grew to 3% of GDP when the new government gave a big cash injection to the Reserve Bank, abandoned some of Labor’s proposed savings and took into account the abolition of the carbon and mining taxes.

    So, ignorance can hardly be the excuse, and, in no way, does that hold up to the bullshit “balance” the abc seems to be using instead of their charter. The worst part is, Chris Bowen didn’t highlight that either, he simply called it political. Well, he would say that. Note to Labor, people expect you to call it names, but tell us why, and make sure it is in the same soundbite.

    The Kouk goes even further into the “previous policy” fudge.

    The issue with the “previous policy” scenario is that it was based on a manufactured assumption which was aimed at making the budget position inherited by the Coalition government look as bad as possible. Hockey’s decision to assume in the 2013 Myefo that the unemployment rate over the long run – the so-called non-accelerating inflation rate of unemployment (Nairu) – would be 6% was a fudge. This was an odd change from the 5% assumed in the Treasury’s long-run modelling for the economy for Nairu over the prior decade.
    ……..
    In a pea and thimble trick, the IGR has reverted to the assumption of a 5% Nairu, which feeds into the “currently legislated” and “proposed policy” settings. This change alone accounts for the bulk of the difference between the “previous policy scenario” and the other two scenarios.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/mar/05/intergenerational-report-points-to-pressure-from-ageing-population?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Really 7.30, I hope tonight you have a follow up with detail, rather than just leaving that report from last night sitting there as a free advert for the coalition and their lies. I’m not holding my breath though.

  320. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 7:20 am

    Was it just me, or did the msm miss this March’s’ march again?

    Sounds like a female version of TB. She makes much sense.

  321. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 7:22 am

  322. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 7:29 am

    The more details that comes out of this Inter-generational contrivance the more obvious it is nothing but a political manifest

  323. March 6, 2015 8:38 am

    “”Joe Hockey turns intergenerational report into a propaganda weapon””

    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/joe-hockey-turns-intergenerational-report-into-a-propaganda-weapon-20150305-13wce9.html

  324. March 6, 2015 8:44 am

    BTW, I thought I’d give egg a second, third, fourth, fiftieth chance but the very next comment he/she/it posted was bringing up the weather again, so he/she/it can just FO.

    As AO suggests if you feel that passionate about giving egg a voice please feel welcome to set up a blog to keep egg entertained. I’m over it.

  325. March 6, 2015 8:49 am

  326. March 6, 2015 8:55 am

    ” the very next comment he/she/it posted was bringing up the weather again”

    Must have missed that one. This is the only one I saw:

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/03/02/tony-abbotts-good-government-just-recycled-rubbish/#comment-97775

  327. March 6, 2015 9:04 am

    I deleted it.

  328. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 9:11 am

    Must have missed that one.</i.

    You could just consider yourself lucky 😉

    Luckier than any PS appointed by Labor anyway.

    THERE is one barnacle that the Abbott government needs to get rid of immediately: the rule that any director on a government board who was appointed by the previous Labor government will not be reappointed.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/abbott-must-stop-sacking-labor-appointees/story-fnp85lcq-1227250552716?utm_content=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&utm_source=TheAustralian&utm_medium=Twitter

  329. March 6, 2015 9:12 am

    1.””””””””’How is silencing the writer the best way of dealing with their words?””””””””

    2.””””””””’Only the weak of mind could be afraid of words.”””””””

    Wrong on both counts Tinfoil`osy. l agree with armchair. Those brain-dead enough to find blot or reality-denial entertaining can hang-out at the ipa or blot-blog, no worries. lt is the continual ramming down everybody elses throat the denial and blot `content` which becomes incredibly tiresome.

    #Thank-fcuk for email filters.

  330. Walrus permalink
    March 6, 2015 9:22 am

    “” lt is the continual ramming down everybody elses throat the denial and blot `content` which becomes incredibly tiresome. “”

    Only if you insist on reading it.

    Do you protest about how boring lawn bowls is when its on TV ?

    No ……….you just don’t turn to that channel.

    Frankly I fail to see what the fuss is about.

  331. March 6, 2015 9:23 am

    tr””””””””””’follow up with detail, rather than just leaving that report from last night sitting there as a free advert for the coalition and their lies. I’m not holding my breath though.(#nor-me)””””””

    # yeah fully agree team-cheerer, reportland was a fcuking free advert for eleventy and his teabags, if they wanted to run with the `what historical policies and govts did` game, they should have started with keating, as much as l hated his guts at the time, he was addressing the `boomer` bubble and its effects. All those since, have pretty much fcuked about at the edges.

  332. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 9:28 am

    Frankly I fail to see what the fuss is about.

    Personally, it was the inability to back up the continual trolling with any kind of valid argument, and running away when confronted. it was akin to an arsehole wandering onto your front lawn with their dog and letting shit on your lawn.

    imo 😉

  333. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 9:29 am

    Top link reb 😉

  334. March 6, 2015 9:35 am

    bongo”””””’So we pretend to look out 40 years and ignore the projections of the world’s scientists on climate change. – Paul Bongiorno (@PaulBongiorno) March 5, 2015””””””””

    # Does anybody know whats going on with bongo.? He was really quite the teabag-arse hole on meet teh press. He seems to be blogging and tweeting quite sensibly now`a`days. #fell.off.the.tea.trolley

  335. Walrus permalink
    March 6, 2015 9:49 am

    “”’So we pretend to look out 40 years and ignore the projections of the world’s scientists on climate change. – Paul Bongiorno””

    Yeah looking out to a couple of thousand years makes far more sense

  336. Walrus permalink
    March 6, 2015 9:54 am

    Seems to me you ignore this report at your own personal risk.

    I intend never to darken the doorway of any Centrelink office. I will not be beholding to any future government for income since I have no control over how large or small the pittance might be.

    Seems to me a few on here should at least consider pausing and reflecting upon how wonderful their retirement might be in poverty and possible bad health.

    I can think of nothing quite so miserable

  337. March 6, 2015 9:57 am

    ””””Only if you insist on reading it.”””””

    #agree (email filter catches most of dumpty and kneels repetitive crap) l was mainly pointing-out the false-hoods tinfoil`osy was running with EG, nobody here is `silencing` dumpty and preventing dumpty from having her very-own wordpress site, nor is anybody here `afraid`, just bored shit-less of dumpty-content

    +

    ”””Do you protest about how boring lawn bowls is when its on TV ?”’#or blot-blog

    ””No ……….you just don’t turn to that channel.”’#go-elsewhere

    (but network-7 would go ape-shit if network-9 jammed its `lawn-bowls` onto their spectrum)

  338. March 6, 2015 10:11 am

    blubbers”””””Seems to me you ignore this report at your own personal risk.””””

    Personal risk huh blubbers. What does the so-called `report` say on future crime. We have been following teh-yanks on tax-gifts for the rich, trashing the `working-class` employment, we are starting to see the `ice` epidemic taking hold, as further `detroitification` sets in, so will crime, drugs and violence.

  339. March 6, 2015 10:32 am

    “”I can think of nothing quite so miserable””

    One could be a public servant.

  340. March 6, 2015 10:35 am

    ha”””””””””””””That chairman had told me he had attempted to get three members of his board reappointed this year, telling his minister that in each case they were good directors who contributed much to the organisation.”””””””””

    +

    Later””””””’and instead they are being booted off for no other reason than they happened to be appointed during a Labor government.””””””

    #the irony, it burns. Boardrooms have been sacking good performing bottom-earning `workforces` so they can increase their own `excesses` a little bit more. Now they bleat when they get a taste of their own medicine. Suck it up cnuts.

    +

    ”””””””They are, understandably, offended at the suggestion that they are partisan in any way, or that they are ALP fellow travellers.

    If Tony Abbott doesn’t drop this rule soon, relations between his government and the director community will break down irretrievably.”””””””’

    # Fcuk the `director-community`. Fcuk them hard mr-rabbit. #what.goes.around.comes.around #reaping.crops.sown

  341. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:36 am

    Yeah looking out to a couple of thousand years makes far more sense

    Wow, just wow. Ignorance personified.

    I intend never to darken the doorway of any Centrelink office.

    Nice work if you can get it

  342. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:38 am

    “1.””””””””’How is silencing the writer the best way of dealing with their words?””””””””

    2.””””””””’Only the weak of mind could be afraid of words.””””””””

    Correct on both counts ToSY.

    That is precisely why progressives are so into media censorship, shouting people down and speech codes. They hate open debate as it serves only to demonstrate that their deeply stupid ideas are bereft of logic and common sense.

    A different issue is whether a blog proprietor should exercise some control over the content posted on their site. Of course they should. It is their fucking blog after all. They keep the show on the road day in day out. It must be incredibly frustrating sometimes. In the case of this blog reb is incredibly, almost uniquely, tolerant in the range of views and styles he tolerates. For that I am extremely grateful.

    I prefer a debate to an echo-chamber. Agreeing with people is boring. Lambasting the pieties of the intellectual elite of any era is a commendable occupation. In this era it is a positive duty for those who would rather not be intimidated by mindless morons who believe that truth is irrelevant and power is everything.

    Here there is plenty of scope for that kind of debate. And while discussion may be heated at times it helps if there is, at some level, a degree of respect among the commenters. Reb has worked hard and patiently to keep people on track (I’ve had a few warnings myself). We should all be grateful for this. If pests persist the proprietor should banish them, if only for his own sanity. The added benefit is that the blog continues and we all get to enjoy the show.

  343. Walrus permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:42 am

    “One could be a public servant.”

    Well……………gotta admit cardigans in Summer are a bugger

  344. March 6, 2015 10:42 am

    Those are very kind and encouraging words splatter, thank you.

  345. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:43 am

    “good performing bottom-earning `workforces`”

    Where can I get some of that action?

  346. Walrus permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:44 am

    “(I’ve had a few warnings myself)”

    Yeah its kinda like a speed camera that you know is there but 1 day you “lose it” and get booked.

  347. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:46 am

    Who was it, in 1961, that predicted we would go to war in Afghanistan?

  348. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:50 am

    Yeah its kinda like a speed camera

    This is the pertinent point.

    BTW, I thought I’d give egg a second, third, fourth, fiftieth chance

    …………..

    They hate open debate

    Really? In fact, my post above was about the inability to debate. And we know the current mob in power refuse to debate, and are trying to silence it anywhere they can. Labor got tarred with shutting down debate because they tried to force a forum where bullshit can be called. Now, we have the inter-generational propaganda shite masquerading as a report. ffs

  349. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:51 am

    The five-yearly intergenerational report ought to be highly informative, leading to serious debate about the economic choices we face. In the hands of Joe Hockey, however, it has become little more than a crude propaganda exercise.

    As such it will be quickly cast aside, like last year’s report of the Commission of Audit. Within a few days all that will remain is the taxpayer-funded advertising campaign. It, too, will be more about spin than brain-food.

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/joe-hockey-turns-intergenerational-report-into-a-propaganda-weapon-20150305-13wce9.html

  350. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:51 am

    I can think of nothing quite so miserable

    You really do live in an ivory tower of cotton wool, … you know nuthing, Willy Walrus …

    =======================================

    We should all be grateful for this. If pests persist the proprietor should banish them, if only for his own sanity.

    Couldn’t agree more, sb … so why is Kneel still around?

  351. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:53 am

    Who was it, in 1961, that predicted we would go to war in Afghanistan?

    My final guess then

    Justin Beiber?

  352. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:54 am

    More ‘words’ from over at the jonova haven for misfits.

    el gordo
    March 1, 2015 at 10:31 am • Reply
    The Leftoids are better organised this time because we are in the midst of a communications revolution and they have used the twittersphere to great effect.
    On the blogosphere there are a lot of old men’s sheds like The Australian Independent Media Network and the The Daily Trash. Their intention is aimed at attracting readers of the Oz and Tele in the hope of brainwashing waverers.
    Its all fair game, do not be afrayd.


    I didn’t realise I was in a men’s shed, I have wondered what they are like. Attracting people to brainwash from the oz and the tele? really?

  353. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:54 am

    Q1. Who was it, in 1961, that predicted we would go to war in Afghanistan?

    Q2. How much did our involvement in Afghanistan cost in treasure*?

    *With due respect to lives …

  354. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 10:55 am

    so why is Kneel still around?

  355. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 6, 2015 11:04 am

    sb, March 6, 2015 10:38 am

    well said [except for the 1st para] 🙂

  356. March 6, 2015 11:05 am

    “Q1. Who was it, in 1961, that predicted we would go to war in Afghanistan?”

    The Hunchback of Notre Dame Nostradamus?

  357. March 6, 2015 11:14 am

    Yogi Bear Berra?

  358. public toilet permalink
    March 6, 2015 11:16 am

    El gordo seems to miss the point of here, if that comment from nova is what it really believes. Two faced fuckhead.

    Pigeonholing the commenters here as ‘old men’ is dumb & wrong.

    Suck shit on your latest banning dipshit, in lieu of the crap you apparently post elsewhere . Brainwashing indeed.

  359. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 11:35 am

    The Daily Trash – has someone stolen the concept, sreb?

  360. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 6, 2015 11:38 am

    …Richard Denniss of the Australia Institute summed it up neatly on ABC radio yesterday when he said “The purpose of this report is simply to scare us into accepting the Government’s short-term agenda”, and he agreed with the suggestion that it was an opportunity “to bash the previous government over the head”.

    …And that 70 per cent rise in real incomes is not to be shared by all. A centre piece of the government’s ‘proposed policy’ is a freeze of government age pensions at 2017 levels

    The worthy old – those who have accumulated tax-subsidised private superannuation pension accounts – needn’t worry, however. They will still get their tax-free income, even though tax foregone through superannuation concessions is already costing two per cent of GDP and is growing at 6.5 per cent a year. But the report is nonchalant about revenue issues – for example it neglects to model the effect of repealing the mining and carbon taxes (its ‘Previous policy’ scenario seems to be based on Hockey’s 2013-14 MYEFO estimates rather than Swan’s 2013-14 budget, thus inflating the claimed deficit under Labor’s policies.)…

    Alan Kohler on telly last night “projections for 40 years from now are meaningless”

  361. March 6, 2015 11:41 am

    We used to be called The Daily Trash TB..

  362. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 6, 2015 11:44 am

    We’re part of “old men’s sheds”??

    If that’s the case, I’m considering self banning.
    —————-
    By the way, SB puts it very well.

  363. Walrus permalink
    March 6, 2015 11:46 am

    “You really do live in an ivory tower of cotton wool, … you know nuthing, Willy Walrus …”

    My goodness you are soooooooooooooo full of shit TB.

    In the context of retirement being poor and unhealthy is not a desirable outcome.

    But you already knew that was the context of my statement.

    But having just wet the bed and forgotten your happy pills you chose anything but my context.

  364. Walrus permalink
    March 6, 2015 11:51 am

    “…………..in the hope of brainwashing waverers.”

    I thought I had started to develop Lunatic Leftist Leanings

  365. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 11:53 am

    and he agreed with the suggestion that it was an opportunity “to bash the previous government over the head”.

    Amen to that.

    Rudd/Gillard/Swan thought it would be easy because Howard/Costello made it look easy because they knew what they were doing.

    It will take years to clean up the mess the ALP created, if ever.

  366. March 6, 2015 11:56 am

    “”so why is Kneel still around?””

    I never realised Neil is an osteopath…

  367. public toilet permalink
    March 6, 2015 12:15 pm

    Neil, it appears that you may be unaware that it’s been confected purely to bash the previous government over the head & manufacture consent for hockey’s next ideological assault budget.
    You seem oblivious that the author wasn’t actually praising the dubious intent of the delayed report.

  368. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 12:26 pm

    I never realised Neil is an osteopath…

    I never realised Neil had a mum. Or a girl in his room. 😯

  369. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 12:31 pm

    “Neil, it appears that you may be unaware that it’s been confected purely to bash the previous government over the head”

    Good.

    Anything that bashes the previous govt is wonderful.

    Apparently this IGR report was a creation of Costello as part of the Charter of Budget Honesty.

    Lets face it. Nobody is honest but Labor is at the bottom of the barrel.

  370. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 12:37 pm

    We used to be called The Daily Trash TB..

    My point , sreb … used to be (egg’s not real good on detail) …

    I like the “we” bit, Jummy … 🙂

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    No attempts at my questions I see … thanks to ToSY tho’ … 😉

    I suspect most people who comment here were wise to the catch …

    Q1. Answer

    No-one …

    … how the fk can you predict 40 years into the future … for anything … (except a reasonable guess I won’t be around) … the next economic boom might be around the corner … ie the golden fleece of power storage or nuclear fusion … especially in this country of innovators …

    But to “guess” how long we will all live is utter nonsense …

    150 years! Not with my fkn aching joints!

    Q2.

    $7.9 billion (and 40 soldiers’ lives)

    Why not just deal with NOW (or just the next five years) and stop going to WARS …

    Imagine all the assets available to the next generation after the boomers have curled their toes … they get it both ways … now and in the future … and anyone who thinks BBs had it better than any other generation hasn’t walked in BBs shoes …

    Intergenerational Theft … I’ve got a couple of adult g/sons next door who still don’t pay any board and do SFA around the home … occasional mowing … :LOL: 😆

  371. public toilet permalink
    March 6, 2015 12:38 pm

    I think you may find that the concept was conceived by Costello, but this particular report was withheld by hockey until it could be sexed up into convenient, easily digestible propaganda.

  372. March 6, 2015 12:49 pm

    “” how the fk can you predict 40 years into the future “”

    Indeed. It’s all bollocks….

  373. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 12:49 pm

    … until it could be sexed up into convenient, easily digestible propaganda.

    And so fkn obvious it hurts …

    Businesses used to try that with my training and assessment material – “oh, could we keep a copy for a couple of days to have a good look at it” … “sorry, no” … you could see the copier lights flashing in their eyes!

  374. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 6, 2015 12:52 pm

    El gordo seems to miss the point of here, if that comment from nova is what it really believes.

    It’s right here toilet, above scaper’s comment.

    http://joannenova.com.au/2015/02/the-leadership-challenge-in-australia/#comment-1685939

    Pigeonholing the commenters here as ‘old men’ is dumb & wrong.

    Yeah, considering he’s an old man himself. I have been ignored obviously, oh shit, I’m in a ‘men only club’ I hate that!

    He’s fighting a guerilla war, can’t see outside the trench he’s dug into.

  375. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 12:53 pm

    ” how the fk can you predict 40 years into the future”

    Climate scientists think they can

  376. public toilet permalink
    March 6, 2015 1:12 pm

    He and the delusional rockshifter make deserving bedfellows.

  377. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 1:19 pm

    LOL! He and the delusional rockshifter make deserving bedfellows.

    My thoughts exactly!

    KL, you’re certainly welcome in this “men’s shed” … and, I suspect, anywhere around the country in the RW men’s sheds …

    … it’s those exclusive tory men’s “clubs” that wouldn’t let you in … although being a nurse?

  378. March 6, 2015 1:29 pm

    KL, you’re certainly welcome in this “men’s shed”

    I AGREE!

    Although I’d never really considered the place to be a “”mens shed”” (I think that’s just in egg’s head)

  379. March 6, 2015 1:38 pm

    ‘Although I’d never really considered the place to be a “”mens shed””’

    Me neither. I like to think of it more as a sheltered workshop.

  380. public toilet permalink
    March 6, 2015 1:38 pm

    Indeed.

  381. public toilet permalink
    March 6, 2015 1:41 pm

    My last comment wasn’t an endorsement of tosy’s.

  382. public toilet permalink
    March 6, 2015 1:42 pm

    Sheltered from?

  383. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 6, 2015 1:44 pm

    Here is the BBC doco that India has banned, also tried to get a court order to prevent it’s release.

    [Mashable] The controversial gang rape documentary India doesn’t want anyone to see:
    http://mashable.com/2015/03/05/indias-daughter-rape-documentary/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link

    …The Indian government has promised retaliation against the BBC in response to its release of a documentary in which one of the perpetrators of a fatal gang rape blames the victim for the attack

    .”A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy,” Singh says in the film. “Boy and girl are not equal. Housework and housekeeping is for girls, not roaming in discos and bars at night doing wrong things, wearing wrong clothes.”

    He goes on to claim that the harsher sentences India put into place in response to the rape make the nation more dangerous for women. “Now when they rape, they won’t leave the girl like we did. They will kill her,” Singh said…

  384. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 3:04 pm

    ” The controversial gang rape documentary India doesn’t want anyone to see:”

    Perhaps lefties should say we should not be imposing our Western/Christian values on other cultures.

    If we were born in a Muslim society we would be in agreement with child brides, female genitial mutilation, multiple wives and other activities we find immoral.

    Perhaps the Indians find some of our activities obnoxious.

    I know the British Christian missionaries abolished a lot of practices in India that Western Christians thought were wrong but i guess the people in India thought were normal behaviour.

  385. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 3:04 pm

    Sheltered from?

    Art critics?

  386. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 3:06 pm

    Perhaps the Indians find some of our activities obnoxious.

    You mean like pedophile priests?

  387. public toilet permalink
    March 6, 2015 3:10 pm

    Geez, Neil…you’re wired wrong. It has fuck all to do with leftists, let alone Islam. Check your demographics you derivative simpleton.

  388. public toilet permalink
    March 6, 2015 3:14 pm

    Also…’imposing’ of anyone’s values upon others rarely works.

    The Indian government obviously recognise the PR threat very well though.

  389. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 3:29 pm

    Does anybody know where we get the word “thug” from?

    It comes from a religious cult in India which to become a member you had to kill people

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

    The Thugs would join travelers and gain their confidence. This would allow them to then surprise and strangle their victims by pulling a handkerchief or noose tight around their necks. They would then rob their victims of valuables and bury their bodies.

    The British Christians put an end to the thugee cult. I guess the thugs thought what they did was normal behaviour and had no concept that what they were doing was wrong.

    But lefties say we should not be imposing our values upon other people.

  390. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 3:44 pm

    Unlike rightees 😯 !

  391. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 3:50 pm

    By the way the thugee religion was in one of the Indiana Jones movies.

  392. Tom R permalink
    March 6, 2015 3:54 pm

    Unlike rightees

    Lefty Loosey, Righty Tightee 🙂

    So, apparently, I’m a Loosey (Lucille), and nIls a Tightee 🙂

  393. March 6, 2015 4:25 pm

    “But lefties say we should not be imposing our values upon other people.”

    I can only assume you are suggesting imposing ‘our’ values (meaning yours & Bolt’s view of the world, not some broader ‘our’) upon other people?

    Notice how well that’s ‘worked’ in the Middle East?

  394. armchair opionator permalink
    March 6, 2015 5:39 pm

    Well neil, ‘we’ must share some values, because we have plenty of rapists here. No need to impose, it’s already here.
    Is it male ‘values’ you are talking about?

  395. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 7:11 pm

    Is it male ‘values’ you are talking about?

    He’d have trouble on two fronts, KL, “female” is more than four letters and well they only iron and wash and have babies so they can iron and wash … oh and cook …

    It really is a sick world in so many ways … how a father can condone the things that happen to a daughter (and g/daughters) in third/second world countries is something that is way beyond my ken … and all the men in my immediate family …

  396. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 7:54 pm

    “I can only assume you are suggesting imposing ‘our’ values (meaning yours & Bolt’s view of the world, not some broader ‘our’) upon other people?”

    Well if you believe something is wrong should you impose your values on other people?

    But how to tell right from wrong?

    Capital punishment was always considered justified until relatively recently. Australia’s last capital punishment was in 1967 which is not that long ago. It went from being a justified act to something that is considered barbaric now.

    Personally i have no problem with the death penalty for murder and perhaps some other crimes. But i guess the judge may convict the wrong man from time to time.

  397. March 6, 2015 8:00 pm

    “Ronald Joseph Ryan (21 February 1925 – 3 February 1967) was the last person to be legally executed in Australia. Ryan was found guilty of shooting and killing prison officer George Hodson during an escape from Pentridge Prison, Victoria, in 1965. Ryan’s hanging was met with some of the largest public protests in the history of Australia and led to the end of executions in the country. The death penalty was abolished in Australia in 1985 (although no one after Ryan was put to death prior to that).”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Ryan

  398. March 6, 2015 8:06 pm

    Personal details alert: I was a very young boy at the time of his execution, but Ronald Ryan’s name is seared on my brain. His execution was a very controversial at the time, and my father talked about it on more than one occasion.

  399. March 6, 2015 8:09 pm

    Even more explicit personal details alert: I was seven at the time.

  400. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 8:11 pm

    Personally i have no problem with the death penalty for murder and perhaps some other crimes. But i guess the judge may convict the wrong man from time to time.

  401. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 8:13 pm

    Judges don’t convict juries do … and just one innocent person, by mistake, is enough to condemn capital punishment …

    Says a lot about the extreme right …

  402. March 6, 2015 8:13 pm

    “But i guess the judge may convict the wrong man from time to time.”

    Correct.

  403. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 8:25 pm

    Even more explicit personal details alert: I was seven at the time.

    Same age as my best and Teutonic mate! BTW, thanks for the sharing, mate!

    Now, ToSY, consider this, just three years later (1970) I was being trained to kill complete strangers in their own country, because their political system was different to ours … or go to jail …

    Do we really live in a democracy … or just a capitalist society that wants to take over the world?

    BTW, I don’t know – I’m as always a sceptic and agnostic …

  404. March 6, 2015 8:26 pm

    “Says a lot about the extreme right …”

    Does it?

    These are the countries that currently have capital punishment:

    Afghanistan Bahamas Bangladesh Belarus Botswana China Cuba Egypt Guatemala India Indonesia Iran Iraq Japan Jordan North Korea South Korea Lebanon Malaysia Pakistan Russia Saudi Arabia Singapore Somalia Sri Lanka Suriname Syria Taiwan Tajikistan Thailand Tonga United Arab Emirates United States Vietnam Yemen

    If there’s a pattern, I can’t see it.

  405. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 8:26 pm

    “Judges don’t convict juries do”

    In Australia that is true but i think Western Europe does not use the jury system.

    If the accused confesses to the crime and the court convicts him perhaps capital punishment is OK. It is not a deterrent. It is just that the crime is so great that the guy has forfeited his right to live.

  406. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 8:29 pm

    By crime i mean murder.

    It does seem strange that capital punishment which was considered correct not that long ago is now seen as barbaric.

    What changed? And 1967 is not that long ago.

  407. March 6, 2015 8:37 pm

    “What changed?:

    Perhaps people thought more deeply about whether anyone has the right to take the life of another human being, regardless of what that person has done, or is alleged to have done.

  408. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 8:45 pm

    Doubt it.

    I am sure it has been discussed for centuries by the most intelligent people you can think of.

    Apparently in England it was a spectator sport. 20,000 would sometimes turn up to watch a capital punishment.

  409. March 6, 2015 9:12 pm

    I don’t doubt it.

    I agree with Tony’s surmisation 100%.

    At it’s most base it’s absolute & vengeful punishment. At it’s most insidious it can be a tool used by the State to ‘legally’ eliminate its enemies, both internal & external.

    You have noticed the lack of coliseums in recent times presumably, Neil?

    Enlightenment.

  410. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 6, 2015 9:28 pm

    Yes Toilet those were the days

    Spending Saturday night at the Colliseum watching people fight to death.

    So peoples beliefs keep changing. What was considered normal is now considered barbaric eg. capital punishment.

    I wonder what things we do today that seem normal but in 200 years time people will look back and say were barbaric.

  411. TB Queensland permalink
    March 6, 2015 9:39 pm

    Does it?

    Meaning Kneel …

    In Australia that is true but i think Western Europe does not use the jury system.

    Shakes head …

  412. armchair opinionator permalink
    March 7, 2015 1:27 am

    Thanks TB and reb for welcoming me to the mens shed, I am honoured! 🙂

    ..I wonder what things we do today that seem normal but in 200 years time people will look back and say were barbaric…

    treatment of asylum seekers, war, religion?

    It really is a sick world in so many ways … how a father can condone the things that happen to a daughter (and g/daughters) in third/second world countries is something that is way beyond my ken … and all the men in my immediate family..

    I think it must be ignorance TB, uneducated, superstitious and poverty stricken people who trade their girls for money, so value placed on virginity and innocence for sale as a commodity. Same must be said for people who allow their young children to work like adults or beg to provide for the family, children seen as a burden on a starving family.

    …Personal details alert:
    Even more explicit personal details alert:…

    😯
    Well done, take a bow tony, almost brought a tear to my eye 🙂

  413. March 7, 2015 6:40 am

    tb”””’ie the golden fleece of 1-power storage or 2-nuclear fusion”””””’

    # funny you said that teebz, l was talking with a `sparky` mate last week that follows some of this stuff, 2-nukies and other `mega` technology are highly unlikely to be done anytime soon as power consumption is falling/stagnant and forecast to remain so as more move into self/stand-alone systems.

    1-storage will be the `growing` sector, for bio-fuel and solar systems, china already leads sector and owns-best battery-tech so far, particularly auto battery`s, `recharge-ables` anyway.

  414. March 7, 2015 8:35 am

    don`t sear ya`brain over ryan tinfoil`osy, ryan got what he earned, walker was lucky not to get the same

  415. March 7, 2015 9:38 am

    A recent study by Professor Michael Radelet and Traci Lacock of the University of Colorado found that 88% of the nation’s leading criminologists do not believe the death penalty is an effective deterrent to crime. The study, Do Executions Lower Homicide Rates? The Views of Leading Criminologists, published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Crimonology, concluded, “There is overwhelming consensus among America’s top criminologists that the empirical research conducted on the deterrence question fails to support the threat or use of the death penalty.” A previous study in 1996 had come to similar conclusions.

  416. March 7, 2015 9:43 am

    Perhaps lefties should say we should not be imposing our Western/Christian values on other cultures.
    If we were born in a Muslim society we would be in agreement with child brides, female genitial mutilation, multiple wives and other activities we find immoral.
    Perhaps the Indians find some of our activities obnoxious.
    I know the British Christian missionaries abolished a lot of practices in India that Western Christians thought were wrong but i guess the people in India thought were normal behaviour.

    Blissful ignorance

  417. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 7, 2015 10:42 am

    Ricky, when the facts are against you have an opinion poll. Especially if the opinion poll is conducted among criminologists who are, by and large, leftists. That will inevitably give you the answer you wanted.

    However, if you look at the academic studies in this area you might be a little more cautious about relying on leftist groupthink:

    a series of academic studies over the last half-dozen years that claim to settle a once hotly debated argument _ whether the death penalty acts as a deterrent to murder. The analyses say yes. They count between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer.

    An honest criminologist who opposes the death penalty might say something like:

    A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. “The results are robust, they don’t really go away,” he said. “I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) _ what am I going to do, hide them?”

    Consensus isn’t science.

  418. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 7, 2015 10:43 am

    Link.

  419. TB Queensland permalink
    March 7, 2015 11:03 am

    How does the death penalty result in fewer five murders … unless the murderer is released or allowed into the larger prison community …

    The only real problem for me is the number of mistakes that have been made over the years … one innocent terminated by the state is one too many …

    It is far better economics to execute than to incarcerate tho’ …

  420. TB Queensland permalink
    March 7, 2015 11:08 am

    Just did a quick read of your link sb … needs a bit more time to read thoroughly and digest but seems it may have some holes, methinks …

  421. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 7, 2015 11:21 am

    TB, I don’t have a strong opinion on the death penalty one way or the other. But I hate the moral posturing that goes on around the issue. It is probably unnecessary in our society right now.

    There is, as you say, the problem of when courts convict the wrong person and there is the more general point TBoss raised: “it can be a tool used by the State to ‘legally’ eliminate its enemies, both internal & external.”

    *******

    Also, this statement “Judges don’t convict juries do” isn’t strictly correct either. In the recent NSW case where the killer threw his girlfriend over the balcony, the defendant chose a judge only trial. The judge convicted him anyway:

    Few people beyond this group were confident Gittany was not guilty of throwing his girlfriend, Lisa Harnum, off a 15th floor balcony in 2011. All the journalists I talked to who were covering the trial had concluded he was guilty and that, if it were a jury trial, Gittany would be burnt toast.

    But this was not a jury trial. This was a trial by a judge alone, Justice Lucy McCallum. Such is the chasm that has grown between community values and judicial technicality that the conviction rates in trials by jury and trials by judge alone now diverges starkly. Juries are much more likely to convict than judges.

  422. Splatterbottom permalink
    March 7, 2015 11:35 am

    As I said, TB, I don’t have strong views on the death penalty.

    The more interesting issue the discussion raised is the change in attitude to it over time. I am currently reading Steven Pinker’s book The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined which asserts that over time humans have become less violent and advances his theory about why this has happened. When I started it I didn’t think he could even make the case that violence has declined over history and I don’t agree with all of his reasons but it is an audacious topic for anyone to take on. The book is a real buzz to read. The Wikipedia article I linked to doesn’t really do it justice.

  423. March 7, 2015 1:52 pm

    Yeah the death penalty as a deterrent is working an absolute treat in the USA…
    I had a detailed conversion about this very topic to a clinical psychologist who is a criminologist who told me that most in her field consider the death penalty a deterrent.

    I sort of lean toward the death penalty in irrefutable situations where the human has relinquished their right to exist amongst fellow beings as a threat to others with no hope of repatriation, that’s survivalist. This is not the case for those boys in Indo.

    However nevr kid yourself that capital punishment in itself is a deterrent ,it isn’t as the criminal mind just doesn’t operate like that.. The probability of getting caught is a factor of deterrence but its all outweighed heavily by instincts of human nature combined with faulty logic..

  424. TB Queensland permalink
    March 7, 2015 4:36 pm

    … the defendant chose a judge only trial.

    Yes, quite right … it is an option/right that the defendant can choose …

    I’ve never seen it as a “deterrent” most acts of extreme violence are leading to murder are domestic in nature and often spontaneous … and those who plan to murder for what ever reason often believe that they are capable of getting away with it …

    I’ll follow The Better Angels up, sb – I confess I think we are somewhat more civilised in the 21st Century but given the opportunity OR circumstance humans are the cruellest and most violent species on the planet …

    And it fascinates me that people like to watch violence (I’ve said before I find it hypocritical that boxing is banned – I believe – on TV but the UFC is OK? And they wonder about the bashings and coward punches ??? (Or blame violent vid games)

  425. March 7, 2015 5:11 pm

    “I’ve never seen it as a “deterrent” most acts of extreme violence are leading to murder are domestic in nature and often spontaneous … and those who plan to murder for what ever reason often believe that they are capable of getting away with it … ”

    Bingo.

    “I’ll follow The Better Angels up, sb ”

    As will I.

    ” I confess I think we are somewhat more civilised in the 21st Century but given the opportunity OR circumstance humans are the cruellest and most violent species on the planet …”

    Snap.

    “And it fascinates me that people like to watch violence (I’ve said before I find it hypocritical that boxing is banned – I believe – on TV but the UFC is OK? And they wonder about the bashings and coward punches ??? (Or blame violent vid games)”

    I suppose I’m a paradox like that.

    I love ultra violent music & all of the associated imagery that goes with that. I love violent video games & movies…but real violence I abhor.
    I also love UFC, and have no problem with boxing (apart from the suspicion that a lot of it is rigged), but the difference I see between that and ‘genuine’ ugly violence is that there are paid, trained, willing participants.
    You can’t take the gorilla out of man entirely; as admirable as the notion may be. We exist where we are , not where we wish we were .

  426. TB Queensland permalink
    March 7, 2015 6:32 pm

    I suppose I’m a paradox like that.

    I know … and respect yer right, bro …

    We exist where we are , not where we wish we were .

    As long as we keep wishing to be better! 🙂

  427. March 7, 2015 6:42 pm

    I do.But, reality bites(?).

  428. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 7, 2015 6:56 pm

    I think the main argument for the death penalty is that the crime that has been committed ie murder, means the person who has committed this crime has forfetted his right to exist.

    It may or not be a deterrent but that is not the point. Just get rid of them.

    Personally I think the guys who raped and murdered Anita Cobby should have been put to death. And i personally would have had no problem hanging these guys.

  429. March 7, 2015 7:11 pm

    “It may or not be a deterrent but that is not the point. Just get rid of them.”

    Says heaps…

  430. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 7, 2015 9:47 pm

    I have no problem for the death penalty for the people who did this.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Anita_Cobby#Reported_missing

  431. March 7, 2015 11:38 pm

    #this is ridiculous splattering,

    ”””””””” 1.””””””””’How is silencing the writer the best way of dealing with their words?””””””””

    2.””””””””’Only the weak of mind could be afraid of words.””””””””

    Correct on both counts ToSY.

    That is precisely why progressives are so into media censorship, shouting people down and speech codes. They hate open debate as it serves only to demonstrate that their deeply stupid ideas are bereft of logic and common sense.”””””””””””””

    #To equate dumpty (or-kneel) and their repeated copy/paste clap-trap from `denial` or `teabag` handbooks-sites equates to discussion, (or even a half-arsed thought-out view) is pure fiction. Equally fictitious is comparing troll-bouncing to `media-cencorship`. #teabags

  432. March 8, 2015 12:11 am

    TB””””””””””It is far better economics to execute than to incarcerate tho””””””””’

    #Nope, wrong now TB, in teh-usa anyway. Most death-penalty states `prosecutions` will take the death penalty off the table in `early-guilty` negotioations/confessions for a really long sentence due to costs. Death sentence `convictions` cost the state tens-of-millions, 30-years in cold-storage costs about 3-million (@100K/year/prisoner)

  433. March 8, 2015 1:13 am

    crap””””””the death penalty acts as a deterrent to murder”””””””

    #most `murders` are committed in `heat-of-moment` situations (eg-domestics), or like the silly irish cnut that king-hit his brother, equally crap is `rehabilitation` in jails,

    1-jail is about giving the public a `rest` from that particular criminal and his `antics` for a period and some `retribution` upon the criminal

    2-`life-meaning-life` sentences and `death-penalty` are an expansion of 1-above, a longer/permanent `rest` for public from the criminal, `retribution` too.

  434. TB Queensland permalink
    March 8, 2015 9:35 pm

    … has forfetted his right to exist.

    What happened to the spelling Nazis?

    TB””””””””””It is far better economics to execute than to incarcerate tho””””””””’

    #Nope, wrong now TB, in teh-usa anyway. Most death-penalty states `prosecutions` will take the death penalty off the table in `early-guilty` negotioations/confessions for a really long sentence due to costs. Death sentence `convictions` cost the state tens-of-millions, 30-years in cold-storage costs about 3-million (@100K/year/prisoner)

    This was my initial reply …

    BS … where’s your link to that hogwash … it costs far more to keep people in jail than to kill the poor sods … dead folk don’t need somewhere to “live”, guards, food, lawyers, paperwork/admin, rehab, legal opportunities to challenge courts …

    I then did some research … in fact the APPEALS system in the USA is what makes the cost HIGHER … if the conviction was – death – and they carried it out immediately … it would be cheaper and lawyers would be poorer …

    So, your argument is based upon the USA legal system … and as I said before the only problem I have with capital punishment is that one innocent is too many …

  435. March 9, 2015 1:00 pm

    TB””””””””’in fact the APPEALS system in the USA is what makes the cost HIGHER … if the conviction was – death – and they carried it out immediately”””””””””

    # maybe so TB, but where does that happen.? where is there `no-appeals`.? and the places that don`t have appeals probably don`t have much of a system you would agree with anyway. Arrested-at-2pm, sentenced-by-3pm and shot-at-4pm might seem a bit unjust to many. When it comes to `appeals` Aust allows plenty, that guy that shot-up melbourne years ago, is known for being a `serial-appealer`, he is meant to be jailed for life(meaning-life) but has continually appealed/tried-to. (can`t think of his name at the moment) The govt/court finally ruled `no-more-appeals`, and he meant to remain in cold storage until dead.

Go on say something, you'll feel better...

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: