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Why Indonesia Needs the Death Penalty

April 28, 2015

image-20150316-9217-evn02r

The following article is by Arie Afriansyah, Lecturer in Law at the University of Indonesia…

International pressure has mounted on Indonesia in recent months to stop its enforcement of the death penalty. President Joko Widodo – known as Jokowi – ordered the execution of six convicted drug traffickers, five of whom were foreign nationals, in January.

Another group, including Australian duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, has been told that they will be executed on the island of Nusakambangan on Tuesday – now that various legal appeals have been exhausted.

Despite international concern, Jokowi should maintain his tough anti-drug stance for a number of reasons. Indonesia’s drug problem is a state of emergency.

It holds a sovereign right to enforce the law within its territory and its enforcement of death penalty does not violate international law.

Drug emergency

Millions of people are affected by drugs in Indonesia. According to the National Agency for Narcotics (BNN), one million people are addicted to drugs with little chance of recovery.

Around 1.6 million people occasionally take drugs while 1.4 million are regularly consumers.

Indonesia is Southeast Asia’s drug hub. BNN – along with customs and police – have confiscated large quantities of drugs. In January this year, the police confiscated 8.1 kilograms of crystal methamphetamine.

Last year, BNN confiscate 157 kilograms of crystal meth in a drug bust in Jakarta, and the year before, the police confiscated 9.9 kilograms of crystal meth.

Each day, more than 30 people die of drugs according to BNN estimates.

Some have challenged the accuracy of data provided by BNN, doubting the government’s claim that Indonesia is facing a drug crisis that warrants the executions of convicted drug traffickers.

However, these considerations should not divert attention from Indonesia’s efforts to combat drug abuse.

Indonesia’s estimates on drug use were jointly produced by BNN and a reputable research centre, the University of Indonesia’s Centre for Health Research.

They used scientifically based research methodologies and have considered the margin of error carefully in their studies.

So far, Indonesia does not have any other data than BNN’s 2008 studies. Experts admit that new data will provide stronger estimates than what is currently available.

However, conducting a survey on Indonesia’s large population is not easy.

We cannot ignore the victims of drug abuse just because the harm cannot be accurately quantified. It’s better to believe the worst situation of drug abuse based on BNN’s data and by looking at the realities in Indonesian communities.

In a personal interview, the head of the BNN said that the government has allocated additional funding to reduce the demand for drugs.

Under a new policy, drug users are not sent to jail but sentenced to mandatory rehabilitation. The program targets at least 100,000 people to recover from drug addiction a year.

Under this policy, no drug user will be sent to prison. Only those who trade and gain profit from illegal drugs will be criminalised.

A sovereign right

Indonesia’s move to enforce the death penalty on convicted drug traffickers is protected by the principle of state sovereignty.

Under this principle, Indonesia has the freedom to make and apply laws within its territory and on its citizens wherever they are without any interference from other states or entities.

Since the development of international law, the concept of state sovereignty has been the main foundation of the system of relationships between countries.

Indonesia is a party to the United Nations Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances. In addition, to ensure the fulfilment of its human rights, Indonesia became a party to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).

As part of the implementation of its international obligations, Indonesia has enacted several anti-drug laws such as Law No.35 of 2009 on Narcotics and Law No.5 of 1997 on Psychotropic Substances.

Indonesia has the authority to enforce these laws on anyone, including foreign nationals in Indonesia’s territory. Other states must not pressure or interfere in Indonesia’s domestic application of the law.

If other states intervene, it can be considered a violation of customary international law, which gives the right for Indonesia to retaliate to redress interventions.

Compliance with international law

Indonesia is not violating international law in upholding the death penalty. Under the anti-drug trafficking convention, Indonesia is still allowed to apply the maximum penalty as deemed appropriate by the state to provide a deterrent to drug trafficking crime.

Indonesia has enshrined the death penalty into law in its 2009 anti-drug law. And in a 2007 judicial review, the Constitutional Court ruled that the death penalty was in line with Indonesia’s constitution.

Some human rights activists argue that Indonesia is obliged to respect the right to life as stipulated under the ICCPR. They suggest Indonesia should abolish the death penalty.

But Indonesia provides all death row convicts equal opportunities to appeal. And after all legal proceedings have been completed, people on death row can request clemency to the president.

Some have indicated that some courts’ procedures and rulings have been corrupted. But we cannot generalise the whole proceedings of Indonesian courts to be corrupt.

Notorious decisions based on fraud and corruption were committed by small number of judges. Indonesia’s legal system is not perfect, but the country is not a failed state in upholding the rule of law.

Indonesia’s stance on the death penalty is in accordance with Article 6 Paragraph 2 of the ICCPR, which states that countries may impose the death sentence “only for the most serious crimes in accordance with the law in force at the time of the commission of the crime”.

Some might disagree and condemn the execution of convicts before the firing squad. However, we should also think about the victims of drug abuse who have died and those who are now suffering.

Considering the grave threat drugs pose to Indonesia’s younger generations, the Indonesian government should continue its forceful policy against drug-related crimes.

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285 Comments leave one →
  1. Tom R permalink
    April 28, 2015 9:39 am

    They don’t need a Death Penalty to Stop the Drugs, they need a scott morriscum (essentially the same really)

  2. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 28, 2015 9:41 am

    …Indonesia’s move to enforce the death penalty on convicted drug traffickers is protected by the principle of state sovereignty…

    Something to think about.

    Perhaps it’s time to end the notion of sovereignty, not just for indonesia, for all nations, does it really serve the citizens of a country or does it serve a corrupt and corrupted political elite?

  3. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 28, 2015 9:46 am

    This semi literate dill is a lecturer in law?

  4. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 28, 2015 9:49 am

    I go to Bali surfing sometimes. I had some stuff stolen from the beach a while ago, I made a statement to the police, for insurance.

    The officer asked for about $20 for taking the statement.

    The Balinese are very nice but the petty corruption is a pain.

  5. Tom R permalink
    April 28, 2015 9:50 am

    This semi literate dill is a lecturer in law?

    SACK HIM!

  6. Tom R permalink
    April 28, 2015 9:51 am

    The Balinese are very nice but the petty corruption is a pain.

    Thank Dog we live in a cuntry free from all that petty corruption.

  7. Tom R permalink
    April 28, 2015 9:58 am

    From a link in the article

    Jokowi’s blanket rejection is a blatant violation of Article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), to which Indonesia is a state party.

    https://theconversation.com/jokowi-should-halt-executions-under-indonesias-corrupt-judicial-system-37463

    Will Jokowi make a statement along the lines of the Indonesian people are “sick of being lectured to by the” ICCPR?

  8. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 28, 2015 10:18 am

    Sovereignty eh?

  9. Tom R permalink
    April 28, 2015 10:33 am

    Don’t worry AO, the TPP will take care of that for them. They’ll just rule the GST inhibits their “freedom” to make money 😉

  10. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 28, 2015 11:46 am

    looks like there’s more to that google story.

  11. April 29, 2015 4:23 am

    Good morning teabags. 4am east-coast time, my abc is reporting executions have been carried out. Female phillipino given a `stay` of execution. Total of 8 executed, including the 2-donkeys.

  12. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 9:03 am

    I see we’ve withdrawn the ambassador, that’s a fair start. It’s fortunate that the (now shown to be) spineless Bob Carr isn’t still in charge.

    Geoffrey Robertson has suggested reducing aid to Indonesia and allocating it to devastated Nepal. That’s worth consideration.

  13. TB Queensland permalink
    April 29, 2015 9:20 am

    Geoffrey Robertson has suggested reducing aid to Indonesia and allocating it to devastated Nepal. That’s worth consideration.

    That ‘s stupid … half of Australians are no more responsible for The Mad Abbott’s comments than Indonesians for Wicked Widodo …

    I’m beginning to see how stupid fkn world wars begin … it would be hilarious if it wasn’t so friggin’ serious …

    Are there ANY objective people left?

  14. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2015 9:25 am

    I admit to shedding tears this morning, such a waste of young lives trapped in a barbaric and corrupt justice system. It is a crying shame, jailed as 20 yo for 10 long years, something that most aussies only get a few years in prison for and then put to death. Just inhumane and wrong.

    Wow, bruce haigh is telling it like it is

    Retired diplomat Bruce Haigh says Bali Nine pair ‘victims’ of ‘flawed relationship’ with Indonesia, AFP should be investigated over role:
    http://www.news.com.au/world/retired-diplomat-bruce-haigh-says-bali-nine-pair-victims-of-flawed-relationship-with-indonesia-afp-should-be-investigated-over-role/story-fndir2ev-1227325907479

  15. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 9:29 am

    AFP should be investigated over role:

    Definitely.

    I also read this morning that withdrawing Aid now, after yabots comments, will be very difficult.

    Australia’s large aid program in Indonesia should be cutback to reflect Indonesia’s growing economic strength. But Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s maladroit characterisation of the Aceh tsunami aid during the execution row has made it harder for Australia to cut back now without adding to the impression in Indonesia that the aid is only intended to buy Australia influence.

    Not only that, but the tears of this mob who sent asylum seekers back to Indonesia and their deaths makes any kind of moral grandstanding futile.

  16. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 9:42 am

    I don’t see this as a partisan/political issue.

    You should also think beyond the political personalities.

  17. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2015 10:16 am

    …I don’t see this as a partisan/political issue..

    Well I don’t think tony abbott’s dog whistling and chest thumping over asylum seekers has helped relations. Don’t forget the way he has vilified muslims, how would that look to a muslim country? Also the way the navy made a number of unauthorised incursions into their territory as they chased down boats like cowboys on the high seas, if anyone believes that was ‘accidental’ they must think the navy incompetent.

    JBishop has had to do all the negotiating over the two men because it is obvious that abbott is persona non grata. He even admitted this morning that communications had not existed for some time.

  18. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2015 10:27 am

    What about abbott’s ‘diplomatic’ skills, that had the country sending coins to australia just two months ago?

    #Coin for Abbott: Indonesians’ angry backlash at PM’s Bali nine diplomacy:
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/coin-for-abbott-indonesians-angry-backlash-at-pms-bali-nine-diplomacy-20150222-13l5n2.html

    …Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop was forced to call Indonesia’s vice president Jusuf Kalla the next day to clarify the comments.

    Her diplomacy seemed to soothe the concerns of Indonesia’s leaders. Its president Joko Widodo said he was satisfied by the explanation on Friday, while also revealing that his government had been preparing a formal rebuke to Mr Abbott.

    But many ordinary Indonesians remain enraged…

  19. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2015 10:39 am

    Who knows? Maybe a different person in charge and those two men would still be with us today.

    [Bob Ellis]
    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/the-murders-of-chan-and-sukumaran,7641

    4.55 am

    …A further thought.

    This may be a big hinge moment in our politics, in our self-image. We have heard a call for mercy, mercy please, by a Government that locks up children for 90 years on Nauru and fails to investigate a clubbing to death on Manus of an Iranian architect who did nobody harm, and lets a young man almost starve himself to death, another young man burn himself to death, for want of a visa, a passport, a certificate of permission to work in this country. Mercy please for two drug dealers but not these people — they do not deserve our mercy, any of them.

    Is this hypocrisy, this cruelty, this brazen breach of the Christian ethic and the Anzac spirit, an acceptable way of doing things any more?

    I doubt it, I doubt it.

    And we will see what we shall see…

  20. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 10:50 am

    It’s a long bow. Jokowi is a politician and he promised to stop the moratorium on capital punishment that had been in place, as part of his election strategy.

    Giving the finger to colonial types goes down well.

  21. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2015 11:01 am

    …It’s a long bow. Jokowi is a politician and he promised to stop the moratorium on capital punishment that had been in place, as part of his election strategy…

    Like ‘stop the boats’ and anti-muslim rhetoric?

    Was it always going to play out this way because of the two men who came to power, their deaths were sealed back then?

  22. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 11:17 am

    Their deaths were sealed when Jokowi won, his popularity is on the slide and showing compassion or compromise would be portrayed as weakness,

    I think he’s got a bit of the Rob Oakshott about him.

  23. Walrus permalink
    April 29, 2015 11:19 am

    “AFP should be investigated over role:”

    I dont disagree especially in “gifting” the B9 to the scumbags but I also heard this morning that the AFP were already aware of the operation when Rush’s father contacted them

  24. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 11:20 am

    Like ‘stop the boats’ and anti-muslim rhetoric?

    Ouch.

    I think the executions would have gone ahead regardless of who was in power. It is all the little digs, like announcing it on Anzac day, when we had explicitly asked them not to, and not allowing a priest with them that I think is a deliberate dig out the current grubmint who are currently crying crocodile tears. The same tears they once shed for asylum seekers when it suited them politically, before they sent them back to their deaths without a sob.

  25. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 11:22 am

    the AFP were already aware of the operation when Rush’s father contacted them

    That’s really neither here nor there wally (although it does add to the depth of their moral abyss)

    It is the fact that they could have arrested them here before they left, but instead handed them to the Indonesians, where we now have this outcome.

    The AFP may not have pulled the trigger, but it certainly looks like they had a hand in loading the gun. And they more than anyone SHOULD have known the outcome of their deal.

  26. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 11:25 am

    ” I think the executions would have gone ahead regardless of who was in power.

    Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono had a moratorium on capital punishment. Do you think he would have called an end to it in order to shoot these people?

  27. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2015 11:30 am

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/apr/29/execution-bali-nine-pair-six-others-indonesia-angry-reaction-live?CMP=soc_568#block-554020f9e4b06f93f8b857e3

    Peter Morrissey QC:

    …Australia’s credibility in arguing for clemency for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran was tarnished by Canberra’s inconsistency about the death penalty, according to one of the men’s lawyers, Peter Morrissey SC.

    In 2003 when two of the Bali bombers were sentenced to death, both the government and the opposition of the time in Australia supported it.

    Our credibility was a little tarnished there … we were rather applauding the death penalty when it came to the Bali bombers. That fact caused a lot of resentment. We need to be very consistent about it [and] that may have affected our credibility within Indonesia on this occasion,” Morrisey said, speaking on ABC radio this morning.

    Morrissey said that Australia took the “very moral high ground”, but our foreign policy on capital punishment was resented in Indonesia…

  28. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 11:57 am

    They took no notice of Brazil, France, Nigeria. They ignored the plea of the Sec Gen of the United Nations.

    The Indonesian President has found it expedient to give the finger to everyone.

    On what basis do you think these executions had anything to do with the actions of Australian politicians?

  29. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 12:00 pm

    I heard another of their lawyers say on am that he “wouldn’t allow that rabbit to get a run”

  30. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2015 12:28 pm

    I have always thought that john howard was quite OK with what happened to the bali 9. I thought he wanted an example made of them as a warning to other australians. Howard never had much sympathy for any australians in trouble overseas.

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/andrew-chan-and-myuran-sukumaran-executions-a-black-day-for-afp-bob-myers-20150429-1mvo24.html

    When Mr Myers called his contact in the AFP, he discovered officers already had wind of the scheme but instead of arresting the young Australians, it allowed them to leave the country.

    It then tipped off its Indonesian counterparts.

    Mr Myers said the Australian police handed the Bali Nine to Indonesian authorities, knowing they were subjecting the group to potential death by firing squad.

    “This is a black day for the AFP, a day they deliberately exposed nine Australians to the death penalty,” he said.

    Asked if the AFP had blood on its hands over Chan’s and Sukumaran’s deaths on Wednesday morning, Mr Myers replied, “of course they do”.

    “They knew of this plot, they knew of eight participants and they didn’t want to stop these people,” he said.

    “They allowed these young people to leave, knowing full well of their intended crimes and they advised the Indonesian authorities knowing full well that death was inevitable.”

    Mr Myers theorised that the AFP tipped off Indonesian authorities to make examples of the Bali Nine and also to curry favour with the South East Asian nation’s police force…

  31. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 1:16 pm

    Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono had a moratorium on capital punishment.

    er, obviously I meant “in power” over here yomm 😯

    They took no notice of Brazil, France

    France??

    On what basis do you think these executions had anything to do with the actions of Australian politicians?

    Obviously you forgot my comment above about “whoever was in power” 😉

  32. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 1:22 pm

    I heard another of their lawyers say on am

    Do you have a link for that 😉

  33. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 1:35 pm

    Wow, now we know why bolt and yabot get on so well together

    Birds of a Feather

    Tony Abbott’s Indigenous ‘lifestyle choices’ remark smacks of racism, says UN rapporteur

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/apr/29/tony-abbotts-indigenous-lifestyle-choices-remark-smacks-of-racism-says-un-rapporteur

  34. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 1:42 pm

    “France??

    French President Francois Hollande and his Australian counterpart Tony Abbott reiterated their opposition to the death penalty “in all cases” on Monday as executions loom in Indonesia for three of their citizens.
    “France and Australia share the same attachment to human rights and condemn the death penalty in all places and all circumstances,” the French presidency said in a statement after a meeting between the two leaders.

    http://news.yahoo.com/france-australia-condemn-death-penalty-indonesia-executions-loom-083822630.html

    France and the EU have been very active in opposing the death sentence-

    On Thursday (23 April), the EU attacked the death sentence imposed on a Frenchman in Indonesia, which is expected to be carried out shortly, saying it was no answer to drug trafficking.

    http://www.euractiv.com/sections/global-europe/eu-takes-stance-against-frenchmans-death-sentence-indonesia-314058

  35. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 1:48 pm

    ”Do you have a link for that

    Of course!!

    PETER MORRISSEY: No, it’s not, it’s not my view. I don’t think they were singled out for being Australian. I hope that rabbit doesn’t start running. The first thing is that the boys were killed and that’s just…. it’s-it’s horrible and it’s the death penalty at work.

    The second thing is that the Indonesian president and his attorney general are both politicians in a position of weakness and they’re using this as a display of strength. And it’s horrible to see that, you know, they’re prepared to dispense with lives – probably 63-odd lives at the moment – for that end.

    And finally, the way they rode over their justice system, it’s confronting to me as a lawyer and those of us in the legal team who tried our best, it’s as if we’re using the wrong song book, you know? We’re talking the language of law and they – those two – are talking the language of power.

    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2015/s4225751.htm

  36. TB Queensland permalink
    April 29, 2015 2:26 pm

    Morrissey nailed it I’d say …

  37. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 2:27 pm

    Thanks for the link yomm (it was more in jest) Adrian would be impressed 😉

    I thought he had meant yabot when he said rabbit, obviously not

    As for France, they at least have a reprieve.

    A Frenchman was originally among the group to be executed but he was granted a temporary reprieve after authorities agreed to allow an outstanding legal appeal to run its course.

    http://news.yahoo.com/indonesia-executes-8-convicts-filipina-spared-local-media-180033859.html

    Howard never had much sympathy for any australians in trouble overseas.

    Except maybe Downer

  38. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 2:33 pm

    I wondered this myself after hearing about the nanny state yesterday. They are claiming it is for “parents who do shift work, those who live in rural areas and those with special needs children”, which from my memory was already catered for. Seems my memory worked right for once.

    In-home support for special needs children, families in remote areas and shift workers is already provided through a federal government in-home care program, which has about 7000 places.

    “The minister’s office really needs to give us some detail,” Australian Home Child Care Association president David Wilson said.

    Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young had similar concerns, noting: “This quite simply looks like a rebadging of the in-home care program.

    “The minister needs to confirm whether this is new money or if it is being taken from the existing … program.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/nanny-funding-trial-gets-mixed-reception-20150428-1mv7xk.html

    So, is this just a way of getting people with less qualification into people’s homes?

    I do hope they recall the fuss they made over the “Pink Batts”. And I would hope Labor wouldn’t stoop so low if the worst happened.

  39. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2015 2:39 pm

    …So, is this just a way of getting people with less qualification into people’s homes?…

    So why aren’t they funding actual grandparents and family members then?

  40. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 29, 2015 2:43 pm

    Morrissey [from toM link] The second thing is that the Indonesian president and his attorney general are both politicians in a position of weakness and they’re using this as a display of strength. And it’s horrible to see that, you know, they’re prepared to dispense with lives – probably 63-odd lives at the moment – for that end.
    And finally, the way they rode over their justice system, it’s confronting to me as a lawyer and those of us in the legal team who tried our best, it’s as if we’re using the wrong song book, you know? We’re talking the language of law and they – those two – are talking the language of power.

    Wow, you could take out the president and AG of indonesia and substitute abbott and his governments asylum seeker policies and it will also be correct.

  41. April 29, 2015 3:07 pm

    Let the games begin…the indo’s have unleashed a world of shit which in my opinion is a middle finger to Australia…
    These boys were used as political pawns, this show of supposed strength is in fact an act that displays profound weakness, ineptitude and desperation

    “0” aid money I recon.

    If they cant manage diplomacy without corruption, lets consider reserving our responsible benevolence for countries that will at least appreciate it without holding the hand out and spitting in our face..
    Fuck them.

  42. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 3:27 pm

    you could take out the president and AG of indonesia and substitute abbott and his governments asylum seeker policies and it will also be correct.

    Scarily true AO

    which in my opinion is a middle finger to Australia…

    We weren’t the only ones. But, is it too out there to think that, with a view from Indonesia outwards to the treatment yabot has given them over the years, that they too now view diplomacy as merely an opportunity to “give the finger” to other countries.

    yabot was/is belligerent, not just to Indonesia, but many other countries (China and Scotland spring most recently to mind)

    Is this the new “International Diplomacy” standard? The Kaiser of modern days?

  43. TB Queensland permalink
    April 29, 2015 3:55 pm

    Is this the new “International Diplomacy” standard? The Kaiser of modern days?

    I fkn hope not … no one really understand the stupidity of WWI … if you research it … you can’t believe the arrogance and the pettiness that led to the deaths of millions of people … really over the death of one man and the one-upmanship and brinkmanship of a few …

    The stupidty gets worse when you realise it was a family brawl … and why the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha family is now referred to as the Windsors … The Firm … the royal family is German …

    Two drug runners should not be the cause of this … emotional outburst …

  44. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 3:55 pm

    I think Ricky has made a good point too.

    “this show of supposed strength is in fact an act that displays profound weakness, ineptitude and desperation

  45. TB Queensland permalink
    April 29, 2015 4:00 pm

    “this show of supposed strength is in fact an act that displays profound weakness, ineptitude and desperation“

    So we should test that? Should we?

    Hope you look good in cams …

    You could get an outboard for your surfboard … and just hope that the Kiwis don’t send you back in a big orange lifeboat … 😉

  46. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 4:04 pm

    The stupidty gets worse when you realise it was a family brawl

    And all tied into the “nation-state”. With so many conflicting and entwined “treaties” that it was almost like it was an inevitability, just needing that one, perfect spark.

    Which really just makes bishops comments in regards to “the rules of nation-states that had helped moderate international conflicts for centuries.” as not just blindingly stupid, but, in this day and age, one might consider it “sackable”?

    I think Ricky has made a good point too.

    Yes. Just to be clear, it is the Indonesians he is referring to?

  47. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 4:22 pm

    Don’t worry about my surfing TB, I’m actually looking forward to my mid year non Bali holiday.

  48. TB Queensland permalink
    April 29, 2015 4:30 pm

    ToM, I was referring to being invaded by Indonesia, you being conscripted and having to become an asylum seeker in NZ … and sent back to Oz …

    Just read this and thought it explained the logic/illogic of international relations and diplomatspeak …

    A former senior diplomat to Indonesia, John McCarthy, said the Abbott government had no choice but to react with “uncompromising displeasure”. Writing before the announcement that Australia was withdrawing its ambassador, he predicted the executions would affect Australians’ perceptions of Widodo for the rest of his tenure, but warned against such a step.

    “Indonesia dismissed our representations and we have no choice but to react with uncompromising displeasure. We should withhold bilateral visits by ministers while the foreshadowed executions continue or for the rest of the year,” McCarthy wrote for the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

    “We cannot have high-level business as usual.

    “We should not compromise our own interests to the extent of jeopardising the web of civilian and military exchanges that are at the heart of the relationship, or cut our aid program – intended to improve the lives of ordinary Indonesians. We should keep our ambassador in Jakarta. Communication matters.”

    Fealy said criticism of Indonesia should stick to legalities and flaws in the judicial process.

    “We could see a really strongly critical statement from Abbott government, which points to serious flaws in judicial process and the failure of the Indonesian government and the president to properly consider the clemency cases,” Fealy said.

    He warned a decision to withdraw the ambassador could harm Australia’s longer term goals.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/29/bali-nine-executions-fallout-australia-juggles-domestic-fury-and-national-interest

  49. Walrus permalink
    April 29, 2015 4:35 pm

    I think there is an English woman in the next batch of scheduled Murders.

    That should make it interesting.

    Nothing will happen until a whole lot of Countries gang up together and threaten to give the Indo grubs a gangbang they wont forget

  50. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 4:52 pm

    ToM, I was referring to being invaded by Indonesia, you being conscripted and having to become an asylum seeker in NZ … and sent back to Oz …

    I’m not too concerned TB. If I sought to go down market and move to NZ, I have no doubt they’d roll out the red carpet.

  51. April 29, 2015 6:27 pm

    It was always going to happen.

    Far worse things are going on all over the world right now that no one could give a squirt about.

    How many Australians truly mourn for those on death row who aren’t Oz citizens.

    Before long, this confected outrage will be replaced in the media by faux excitement over the next Royal Birth.

    Fuck the fake hype machine.

    Capital Punishment is wrong, not just inappropriate for Australian citizens.

    The political class in Indonesia can ill afford to condemn so many of their own to the death penalty, but let a couple of Australian heroin traffickers go free just coz of indignant squealing from the ‘first world’. That’s not an excuse for the executions, just an observation.

    We’d no more suffer them imposing their will upon our sovereignty than they have us.

    Fuck nationalist kneejerkism.

  52. April 29, 2015 6:39 pm

    Can’t wait to see the candle light vigils next time Texas bowls a few over.

    Selective indignance infects the herd.

  53. April 29, 2015 7:21 pm

    I haven’t read the comments on this thread, on purpose.

    How does any country “need” the death penalty?

    What problems do these executions solve?

  54. April 29, 2015 7:26 pm

    l agree dunny, they`re a fcuking herd.

    None of the `bleeding-hearts` have noticed the media-blackout on the remaining 7-donkeys, is that because they will say `fcuk-em`, or they were happy to try and skip-out and leave the 7-donkeys to be shot.

    The `bleeding-hearts` also overlook, what fcuking hope does a nation that ignores `human-rights` (boat-people-gulags,hicks,habib,gitmo,iraq) on a fcuking slew of fronts, with its favorite war-partner, will ever have any serious influence on other nations, on the `human-rights`front.

    #wake.up.australia

  55. Tom R permalink
    April 29, 2015 7:31 pm

    Looks like both media failures are going after Tanya Plibersek. She must have done something right then. What vacuous fuckwits

  56. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 29, 2015 10:53 pm

    “Fuck nationalist kneejerkism.”

    Capital punishment is wrong in all circumstances – but it is a current issue here.
    Just as –

    • Poverty is a problem around the world, but the issue resonates when we see it close to home
    • Indigenous dispossession occurs in other continents, but we see it in Australia, so we talk about it
    • Los Angeles has a severe drought, but their climate (or weather) problems aren’t always interesting to discuss

    I really don’t understand the logic of suggesting we only talk about capital punishment when it involves Australians. There are plenty of topics like that.

  57. April 29, 2015 11:19 pm

    How about 5 mill per acre on a 25 year lease?

  58. April 29, 2015 11:22 pm

    boo of melb””””’Poverty is a problem around the world, but the issue resonates when we see it close to home”””””””

    #Yet you continually cheer-lead for things that cause it. .. #2319

  59. April 29, 2015 11:27 pm

    Whoops…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-12/indonesia-plans-to-buy-1m-hectares-of-grazing-land/4952578

    Prediction.. Shit storm coming…
    Just got a call from a mate in Canberra who said in 22 years he has never seen such a mop up hush down job. He was told to keep it quite .. so he said fuck it and rang a bunch of people.

    It will be alleged that the Judge had a deal for 120k happening with the familys and they were approached by Honest John Howard who paid OK’d the bribe after the AFP hung them out to dry.
    We already know that the father contacted the AFP and they did nothing… No wonder Abbott and Bishop was so stone faced…
    Honest John aye?

  60. April 29, 2015 11:53 pm

    l can`t see the john-w regime paying that 120-130k that`s been bantered around ricky. The teabags hate paying `law-abiding-unemployed` less than 20k welfare, l can`t see the teabags paying 120k to save drug-runner/s.

    #by the way, l think that 2013 `deal` got squashed under one of `foreign` investment reviews in 2013/14.

  61. April 30, 2015 12:19 am

    boo of melb””””I really don`t understand the logic of suggesting we only talk about capital punishment when it involves Australians.”””””””

    #Especially when we just got bit on the arse by our own `Human-Rights-Record`. .. #2319

  62. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 8:13 am

    I guess reb is having this thing called a “life”, so I’ll try it without hte tweets.

    Both fairfax and newscorpse seem to be going after Labor and Tanya Plibersek specifically for daring to raise the same-sex marriage issue, and make it Labor policy. Funny, I recall the atttacks from these wanks on Gillard when she allowed a conscience vote as not going far enough. To add insult to injury, farflux even try to blame the libs failure on this as somehow Labor’s fault. They even out-corpsed newscorpse

    Her misstep may well dissuade the federal Liberal Party from reviving a conscience vote for its MPs on same-sex marriage, and embolden critics in the government to cement their opposition to change.

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smh-editorial/tanya-pliberseks-misstep-threatens-progress-on-samesex-marriage-20150428-1mut6z.html

    of course, newscorpse are still newscorpse, and apparently having a brawl discussion on such an important issue is somehow not good for democracy. Of course, this is the same mob who loudly cheered the Scott McIntyre lynching for broadening the Anzac brawl discussion. Of course, the stoopid doesn’t end there. They also highlight the “dearth of policies”, apparently somehow missing the four or five policies already released by Labor well over a year before the next election would even be considered, and after coming out of a 6 year term that saw a multitude of policies. Many of which are still Labor policies. Maybe they don’t really know what “dearth” means?

    The gathering storm says much about the judgments and priorities of some figures in the alternative government. Despite a dearth of policies and a weak performance by Mr Shorten and his frontbench on economic issues, the opposition has fared well in the polls.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/editorials/a-brawl-labor-doesnt-need/story-e6frg71x-1227325483271

    But I think this is just the first salvo in the war against same sex marriage and any further moves towards it’s acceptance. Crocodile tears and hand wringing from opponents, who appear to hold sway in our msm

  63. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 8:16 am

    And I truly cannot understand this. It also highlights the, again, crocodile tears of the grubmint

    The Coalition no longer directs the Australian Federal Police to take account of the government’s “longstanding opposition” to the death penalty when deciding what information it shares with foreign law enforcement agencies.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/foreign-affairs/ignore-death-penalty-australian-federal-police-told/story-fn59nm2j-1227327517876

    And, speaking of crocodile tears

  64. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 8:32 am

    Are these Lifters or Leaners?

    Both? Can we call them Bludgers

    Fifty-five of Australia’s highest earners paid no income tax at all during 2012-13, not even the Medicare levy.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tax-office-statistics-reveal-the-55-millionaires-who-paid-no-tax-20150429-1mw2zp.html

  65. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 8:34 am

    So, again, yabot proves he’s the stoopid one 😉

  66. April 30, 2015 10:31 am

    smh””””’Plibersek had the makings of a future Labor leader. Her latest decision weakens that faith.

    ##Her misstep may well dissuade the federal Liberal Party from reviving a conscience vote## for its MPs on same-sex marriage”””””””

    #l tend to agree with `smh` on this one team-cheerer, trying to `sell` a conscience vote to the zombies-without-conscience will be near impossible when team-plibersek(has a nice ring to it) doesn`t have a conscience vote themselves. Another hurdle for plibersek is trying to convince an easily frightened blib, and an even more frightened caucus to move too far away from their `unleaded` teabag-like image.

    #go.plibersek

  67. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 10:34 am

    Both? Can we call them Bludgers

    ROBBER BARONS!

    How many politicians are millionaires? Who makes the rules?

    It really is a fkn sickening joke … on all of us who work hard and try to do the right thing!

    Maybe we need some rules for pollies … must be at least 30 years old, no negative gearing, no family trusts, no other income …

  68. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 10:53 am

    l tend to agree with `smh` on this one

    This doesn’t surprise me. Although, to fairfaxes credit, they haven’t yet stooped to having to count coloured packets to defend the rights of killers to continue killing

    So, your argument is, it’s gonna be hard, so don’t do it?

    ROBBER BARONS!

    It has a certain ring to it 😉

  69. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 11:14 am

    The biggest deductions were for work-related expenses (19.7 billion), negative gearing ($12 billion), personal superannuation contributions ($2.9 billion) and the cost of managing tax affairs.

    Interesting … $15 billion in one fell swoop … if you weren’t a Robber Pollie Baron … hey? 😉

  70. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 11:18 am

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/tattoos-might-be-a-huge-problem-for-apple-watch-functionality/story-fnpjxpz3-1227327892753

    So does Apple only make its Apple Watch for white dudes? LOL! @Apple!

  71. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 11:19 am

    if you weren’t a Robber Pollie Baron

    This’ll get the blood going even further TB

    Not sure if that’s a good thing?

    The nation’s biggest beneficiaries of negative gearing overwhelmingly live in the electorates of the Liberal Party’s top ministers, a new report has found.

    The electorates of Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull, Julie Bishop, Joe Hockey and Josh Frydenberg all feature in the top 10 electorates to benefit from negative gearing.

    http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/2015/04/29/lib-voters-property-tax-help/

  72. April 30, 2015 11:47 am

    tr””””’count coloured packets””””

    #so team-cheerer, you need to change the topic `you` selected after just `one` reply huh, that`s the problem with team-cheering l suppose, you have to support the lemon appointed to lead your team, even tho plibersek would have a better chance of winning, but also be a much better pm than blib.

  73. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 12:06 pm

    you need to change the topic

    I don’t “need” to, but I chose to. It still makes me laugh 🙂

    So does Apple only make its Apple Watch for white dudes?

    SOLVED! 🙂

    Worst Apple Fan Boi Tattoo EVER …. #TattooGate #AppleWatch #FanBoiFail

    A post shared by Dan Ilic (@danilic) on

  74. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 12:10 pm

    This MUST be a parody account

  75. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 12:28 pm

    The nation’s biggest beneficiaries of negative gearing overwhelmingly live in the electorates of the Liberal Party’s top ministers, a new report has found.

    The electorates of Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull, Julie Bishop, Joe Hockey and Josh Frydenberg all feature in the top 10 electorates to benefit from negative gearing.

    Not such a giant fkn leap of “faith”, TR …

    Simple deduction but many thanks for confirming my “suspicions” …

    Heavy concentration of catliks in those electorates too – at a guess … you know, the do unto others mob … ?

    BTW, TR (and others who keep worrying {hoping} 🙂 ) my blood pressure is well under control – thanks to The Gutter Trash … letting off steam here helps – my family mostly 😉

  76. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 12:30 pm

    Worst Apple Fan Boi Tattoo EVER ….

    After the tattoo story maybe we should call ’em, whitebois …

  77. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 12:30 pm

    April 30, 2015 11:18 am Tat story …

  78. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 12:31 pm

    sreb, must be pounding out a neutral Rostrum for us to play with … 🙂

  79. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 12:35 pm

    must be pounding out a neutral Rostrum for us to play with

    Or just having a good time 😉

    Like a lot of locals around here must be doing?

  80. April 30, 2015 12:51 pm

    lsn`t reb in canoe-town still.?

  81. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 1:21 pm

    lsn`t reb in canoe-town still.?

    If he is, then I take back my previous comment about having fun.

    Although, now you mention it, it does seem a little more crowded here lately.

  82. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 1:49 pm

    Pie floaters … mmmm … or if your dressed for business tie floaters … 🙂

  83. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 30, 2015 2:08 pm

    if your dressed for

    you’re

  84. Splatterbottom permalink
    April 30, 2015 2:32 pm

    The sacking of Scott McIntyre had absolutely nothing to do with free speech. It did, however, provide a platform for vacuous poseurs to reveal how terminally stupid they are by linking the two.

  85. April 30, 2015 2:54 pm

    The sacking of Scott McIntyre had absolutely nothing to do with free speech. It did, however, provide a platform for vacuous poseurs to reveal how terminally stupid they are by linking the two.

    Exactly.. Totally agree…its like linking Bolt coming out of court as the syndicated opinion writer with a TV show paid for by Reinhardt lobbying self interest after writing a sensationalist piece of vindictive, nonfactual sensationalist bullshit saying “oh this is a sad day for free syndicated speech opinion.
    Or Brandis pretending to be a Libertarian whilst pushing through Draconian Metadata laws on the premise of “tewaism” that hands whistle blowers and journalist out to dry…

    Ask yourself how many twitter followers this fuckwit would have if it wasn’t for his position at SBS? He’s a sports commentator not a journalist.. he is abusing his employers standing.

  86. Tom R permalink
    April 30, 2015 3:16 pm

    Exactly.. Totally agree…

    Exactly.. Totally agree…

  87. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 3:44 pm

    if your dressed for

    you’re

    Get fucked!

    that hands whistle blowers and journalist out to dry…

    hangs …

    The sacking of Scott McIntyre had absolutely nothing to do with free speech

    As so few of us seem to understand, sb …

  88. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 4:09 pm

    People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones … this situation has been so poorly handled … and continues …

    Instead of a couple of major criminal drug runners who gambled and lost … they are becoming martyrs to a cause …

    AUSTRALIA’S hard line on Indonesia’s executions is a fundamentally flawed position that makes the government look “weak” overseas, according to an expert in international law.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/australias-stance-on-executions-open-to-accusations-of-hypocrisy-expert-warns/story-e6frfm9r-1227328592422

  89. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 5:58 pm

    PILOT Robert Lewis was one of 12 men aboard the plane that dropped a bomb on Hiroshima in 1945, killing 140,000 people and effectively ending World War II.

    http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/the-note-enola-gay-pilot-robert-lewis-wrote-after-dropping-bomb-on-hiroshima-in-1945/story-fnh81fz8-1227328678750

    Just what is wrong with so-called “journalists” these days? Incompetent, stupid or trying to “outdo” the truth?

    I have railed against the USA for dropping two atomic bombs on Japan … frankly, under the circumstances “at the time” I can understand why the first was dropped that (and happy to debate why) …

    BUT … I knew the statement above was incorrect as soon as I read it – without being a smartarse – how many other people would …

    in fact BOTH, “A” bombs, as they were referred to when I was a kid caused less deaths than 140,000 …

    In August 1945, during the final stage of the Second World War, the United States dropped atomic bombs on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The two bombings, which killed at least 129,000 people, remain the only use of nuclear weapons for warfare in history.

    Its not fkn hard to research!

    In the age of the Zombie Fone© (and that really is copyright, TB Qld, 2015!) and the interwebby thingy and Google® (assuming it is a registered trade mark?) … it should be a piece of cake for tech savvy Gen X and Y …

  90. April 30, 2015 6:01 pm

    that”””hands whistle blowers and journalist out to dry”””

    #yep, that`s more to the point and more important as far as l`m concerned, you really only need to look at the sports, nrl and afl hide behind the catch-all `ill-repute` to deny their `employees` their free speech. These are not front-line soldiers, cops or spooks where prohibiting communications of certain type `is-necessary`. These are more in the area of cnut employers wanting to silence workers from showing `how` they are cnuts, and most are not in the soldier-spook-cop category.

  91. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 6:09 pm

    What?

    Free speech? Or ignorant bullshit?

  92. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 30, 2015 6:35 pm

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/rugby/david-pocock-issued-formal-warning-by-australian-rugby-union-over-arrest-at-mine-protest/story-fnii0ksb-1227141110540

    Tell me how a football player can be breaching the ARU cose of conduct by locking on against CSG extraction?

    Why can’t pocock have an opinion on environmental issues?

    Civil disobedience is a legitimate form of protest and protest must be allowed in a democracy.

    It’s not as if he’s doing drugs or bashing and raping women.

  93. April 30, 2015 6:43 pm

    There is nothing `super-secret` that either scott-mc/sbs or transfield gulag workers have knowledge of, at the level of `importance/danger` like spooks/cops, that `demands` their `free-speech-rights` be stripped from their workers.

    The `catch-all` clause of `ill-repute` is only being used to silence workers exposing cnut actions by cnut employers in the majority of the workforce contracts.

    #The answer to less corporate embarrassment is, less cnut corporations, not gagged workers.

  94. April 30, 2015 6:51 pm

    yes teebz, l do note you don`t like the `content` of scott-mc`s tweets, however,

    #if it was `all catlicks celebration day`, and scott-mc tweeted `anti-catlick` tweets, and `george-pell` complained to sbs and got scott-mc fired as mr-talkbull did, you would be on the other-side of this argument.

  95. TB Queensland permalink
    April 30, 2015 6:55 pm

    … you would be on the other-side of this argument.

    Wrong … FYI I was management training consultant and I know the difference between an employee’s personal comments and comments that can destroy a business … and how that happens …

    Wonder what would happen KL if you started tweeting about how wrong vaccinations are and how dangerous they are to kids …

  96. April 30, 2015 6:57 pm

    ao”””””breaching the ARU coDe of conduct by locking on against CSG extraction?”””

    #there`ya go teebz, armchair found another example,

    #the `ill-repute` like `catch-alls` can be applied to anything, and on `any` whim, and that`s a `big` problem.

  97. April 30, 2015 7:23 pm

    tb”””’employee`s personal comments””””

    #that`s a worry, (your claim at 6.55) then can`t apply it when it `offends` your personal bias,

    #was not the scott-mc tweets

    1.personal comments,

    2.on a public funded

    3.public event

    #and not about

    A.his employer

    B.his position/role with employer

    C.employer `secrets`

  98. armchair opinionator permalink
    April 30, 2015 8:15 pm

    …Wonder what would happen KL if you started tweeting about how wrong vaccinations are and how dangerous they are to kids …

    There are specific public health policies along with population health agencies to advocate for vaccination and disease prevention and control, I would deserve to be sacked for advocating against our national immunisation strategy [NHMRC research] and against scientific evidence based practice which I am required to adhere to for nursing registration, the national ANCI nursing codes of practice and conduct].

    Did the SBS have a specific ANZAC day policy that prohibited any employee from criticising or breaching it?

    My employer can’t force me to vaccinate my own kids if I didn’t want to though, the same as SBS shouldn’t be forcing an employee to hold a certain personal opinion on ANZAC.

  99. April 30, 2015 8:43 pm

    By teebz logic, the nursing licensing and codes body/s has the `right` to dictate nurses public discussion on feminista, environment, political, and religious topics too. Very worrying. While l would probably never agree 100% with any `group` in the public sphere, l will never condone this level of interference on workers by employers/govt.

  100. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 30, 2015 8:50 pm

    Get a public profile because you’re on the public teat on a publicly funded broadcaster. Use this to spruik crap.

    …and somehow your rights as a worker have been infringed?

  101. April 30, 2015 9:22 pm

    boo of melb””’public profile””’on the public teat””’publicly funded””spruik crap”””

    #All apply equally to mr-talkbull too. .. #2319

  102. April 30, 2015 9:28 pm

    Boo.of melb”””public profile””’on the public teat”””’publicly funded”””

    #All apply equally to `anzac` too. .. #2319 .. #public.event .. #public.funds

  103. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 30, 2015 9:58 pm

    Get a low grade public servant who only has any form of public recognition because he’s paid by the public purse on a publicly funded broadcaster. Have him use this taxpayer funded profile to make outrageous and deliberately offensive comments about people who are dead, at a time that their relatives are reflecting on their deaths.

    The defenders of this leach on taxpayers insist that that he’s been denied workplace rights when he used the (minor) influence associated with his publicly funded position to press his deliberately offensive and culturally insensitive comments.

  104. April 30, 2015 10:22 pm

    boo of.melb”””offensive”””insensitive””’comments”””

    #lt`s called public debate. See 7.23 .. #2319 .. #eye.of.the.beholder

  105. April 30, 2015 10:36 pm

    boo-of melb”””insist that that he`s been denied workplace rights”””’

    #Denied free speech, due to mr-talkbulls political interference. .. #2319 .. #been.sacked

  106. April 30, 2015 10:54 pm

    boo.of melb””””low grade public servant”””’

    #Being merely a `public` employed pleb should not mean they have to surrender all other rights as a `citizen`, no matter how much you obsess on public servants. l will never condone this level of interference on `citizens` by employers/govt. Not even know-nothing, low-grade, tinfoil-cubicle types. .. #2319

  107. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 8:09 am

    Sky Canoes?

    F-35 engines from United Technologies Corp. are proving so unreliable that U.S. plans to increase production of the fighter jet may be slowed, according to congressional auditors.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-27/f-35-engines-from-united-technologies-called-unreliable-by-gao

  108. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:00 am

    Poocock is showing good form in recent games. He should stick to what he is good at. The world has enough airheaded celebrity types sprouting political drivel.

  109. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:23 am

    He should stick to what he is good at.

    Jazz Hands?

    The world has enough airheaded celebrity types sprouting political drivel.

    Like bolt?

  110. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:24 am

    I can see why the libs want this to just go away, but really, it shouldn’t. It also highlights, again, the crocodile tears on recent display.

    In any event, the government’s huffing was all about the inappropriateness of the having the debate right now and almost nothing about the substance.

    Despite its indignant bluster, there is no contest around the facts. It is a fact that the ministerial directive setting out the new Justice Minister’s expectations for the AFP was re-issued on May 12 last year. Equally, it is a matter of fact that said reissued ministerial directive differed in a number of ways from the Labor one it replaced and that among those differences was the absence of any specific reference to respect Australia’s view on capital punishment. Whereas it used to require the AFP to “Take account of the government’s long-standing opposition to the application of the death penalty, in performing its international liaison functions”, it no longer does.

    That it was removed, but not previously reported, is undeniably a matter of public interest and particularly so right now given the AFP’s regrettable role in delivering up Chan and Sukumaran a decade ago.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/argument-over-afp-role-ugly-but-necessary-20150430-1mx7cy.html

  111. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:25 am

    Nah. I was thinking of people with real talent. Sinead O’Connor is classic – fabulous voice and fruit-loop opinions.

  112. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:31 am

    An interesting piece from Gillian Triggs. A shame she didn’t bring the bolt case into it also. Perhaps she’s feeling a little “punch drunk”? In that case, is her freedom of speech being impinged?

    Ask any citizen if they have a right to freedom of speech and they will robustly assert “yes, of course”. However, under Australian law, there is no such formal legal right. While, in practice, everyone is free to say and write whatever they like, this freedom is significantly qualified by exceptions. Prohibitions abound in respect of statements that are libellous or slanderous, in contempt of court, a breach of copyright, obscene or seditious, or that incite mutiny, commission a crime or disclose official secrets.

    ….

    Scott McIntyre may not have the benefit of the “whistleblower’s” law, but it is at least arguable that to be peremptorily sacked is disproportionate to the reasonable interests of his employer. These are matters of judgment in light of all the circumstances.

    The free use of social media – as exemplified by the McIntyre tweets – suggests that it cannot guarantee the triumph of truth over falsehood.


    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/right-to-freedom-of-speech-cannot-breach-employment-contract-20150430-1mwn9f.html

  113. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:32 am

    fabulous voice and fruit-loop opinions.

    I haven’t heard bolt sing, so it’s arguable it still applies 😉

  114. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:33 am

    Either we think security co-operation with Indonesia is worthwhile or not.

  115. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:34 am

    🙂

  116. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:37 am

    Either we think security co-operation with Indonesia with appropriate oversight and controls is worthwhile or not.

    In which case, I AGREE!

  117. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:40 am

    Scott McIntyre was requested/directed to remove the offensive comments. This is a lawful directive, he declined.

    • Therefore dismissal is a legitimate option for the employer.

    The comments were made via a device provided by his employer, he is not entitled to use the device in a manner that is contrary to the policy or direction of his employer. He was given the opportunity to comply with the company’s direction for use of the device. He refused to comply.

    • Therefore dismissal is a legitimate option for the employer.

    McIntyre wasn’t dismissed over any freedom of speech issue, he was dismissed for using a company provided mobile in a manner contrary to the direction of his company, and for not complying with their direction.

  118. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:49 am

    Scott McIntyre was requested/directed to remove the offensive comments. This is a lawful directive, he declined.

    I’m yet to see any evidence of that though. Do you have a link? The only time I have heard it mentioned is when freedomboy claimed it. But sbs, to my knowledge, have never acknowledged this. That is my sticking point atm

    Even if he had been directed to remove them, I would have been far more comfortable with him being given the opportunity to defend himself. It really looked like a knee jerk reaction from ltdnews bully boy tactics, again.

    But I do agree, it is not really a freedom of speech issue, it is, like biolts case, a fairly straight forward legal process. He broke (allegedly) his contract.

    I just think the process of his sacking was far to reactionary considering the case. At least bolt got his day in court to defend himself, Scott McIntyre was offered no such recourse.

    From what I have seen.

  119. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:49 am

    The McIntyre tweets would not have been so offensive if they were true … they weren’t … and they were confused and ill-informed and inclusive of two world wars …

    And as everyone here knows – how easy is it to use a nom-de-plume … but would McIntyre have had 30,000 followers? Answer is probably “no” … and that means he was using the SBS “link” to further a hate rant …

    What if someone well known … what if Karl S had tweeted that McIntyre was pissed out of his brain or stoned when he made those comments? Under a Channel 9 A/C.

    Wonder what his defenders would be saying if he had ranted against Australia’s involvement against ISIS? Or that politicians were rapist, thieves, and murderers …?

    There have been commenters here who have been “outed” re their real persona and this has either diminished their contributions, diluted their contributions or seen them stop altogether …

    People are now confusing VR with reality …

    Saw two blokes in work gear (same company logo) having coffee this morning at the same table … both on their Zombie Fones© … the world is becoming weirder … and people with it …

  120. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:49 am

    I don’t take kindly to mockery of Sinead, Tom R. She is one of the most talented singers of the last half century.

  121. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:51 am

    Either we think security co-operation with Indonesia with appropriate oversight and controls is worthwhile or not.

    Referring to Australia’s bugging of the President and his family, TR?

  122. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:56 am

    Sinead O’Connor … Nothing Compares … hit the TV screens and it was really different! Fabulous music and rendition …

    Then Sinead (as she was billed) hit the interviews and talk backs … and everyone went … WTF!

    Late seventies? Eighties? Not sure?

  123. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 9:57 am

    So if the CEO of Firefox is sacked because he opposed gay marriage five years previously, is that an attack on free speech?

  124. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 1, 2015 10:06 am

    I was reading an exchange between some lawyers, and the direction to remove the comments were accepted as fact by them.

    But I don’t have a link.

  125. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 10:06 am

  126. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 1, 2015 10:08 am

    The McIntyre tweets would not have been so offensive if they were true …

    I wonder whether a class action for defamation is available?

  127. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 1, 2015 10:09 am

    I’m yet to see any evidence of that though.

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/apr/27/malcolm-turnbull-denies-influencing-sbs-sacking-of-reporter-for-anzac-tweets

    SBS staff have been told that sports reporter Scott McIntyre was sacked not for his “offensive” Anzac Day tweets but for refusing to take them down, while the communications minister Malcolm Turnbull has denied having any influence on the network’s decision.

    The director of sport at SBS, Ken Shipp, told staff at a meeting on Monday morning that McIntyre was sacked for disobeying an order to delete the posts which had caused outrage on Twitter on Saturday night.

  128. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 10:14 am

    Cheers nIl. So, he was given an opportunity. Just as bolt was.

    I don’t take kindly to mockery of Sinead, Tom R.

    Sack me 🙂

    I loved the original song, but I also love parody. Spinal Tap comes to mind 😉

  129. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 10:15 am

  130. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 10:57 am

    I wonder whether a class action for defamation is available?

    Chuckle … interesting comment, ToM … but I don’t think McIntyre actually “named” any “culprits” …

    Just about to read the macrobusiness.com.au – “BCA warns on the dumbening of Australia”

    WTF is “dumbening”? I guess they meant dumbing down … speaking of dumb journalists … Gawd Strewth!

  131. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:04 am

    “Cheers nIl. So, he was given an opportunity. Just as bolt was.

    I think a company has a right to expect certain behavior from their employees. SBS asked the guy to take down the tweets and he disobeyed.

    Bolt is different. He was taken to court by some private citizens and the court has now banned him from speaking. Also his blog has been destroyed. It now has to be moderated and it takes ages if at all to post something.

  132. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:07 am

    The BCA story is actually very good, TR, pity the heading is dumb …

    I’ve got a 17 yo who walks all over maths and science, is very articulate and personable by nature and doesn’t know what to do at the end of the year (it was architect/civil engineer until this year … I’ve taken a copy of this for him to read … the IT industry has to be the place to be in the 21st Century …

    The article is right in that this government has done nothing positive just negative responses to just about everything …

    Some people (teams and organisations) are builders – some are destroyers … our present government falls into the last category I’m afraid …

    They’ve stifled, industry, spending, planning, building and that’s just ordinary households …!

  133. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:16 am

    … the IT industry has to be the place to be in the 21st Century …

    YAAYs (anything but fucken manufacturing 😦 )

    the court has now banned him from speaking.

    Perhaps you can find some evidence to back that up nIl, cos

    you keep using that phrase I don’t think it means what you think it means

  134. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:21 am

    Well Bolt has just posted this

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/scholarship_given/

    “He won a scholarship given to a class of people who are disadvantaged:

    Mr Hill’s mother is an artist and teacher, and his father is a dentist.

    Legal restrictions on our free speech make it too dangerous for me to comment.

    His employer has no problems with his comments.

  135. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:29 am

    the court has now banned him from speaking.

    followed by

    Well Bolt has just posted this

    ROFL

    But, to the guts of his non comment

    Legal restrictions on our free speech make it too dangerous for me to comment.

    So, in other words, he’s too scared he’ll revert to lying about people in order to vilify them. Although, truth be told, he just likes playing the victim to his inner circle of sycophants while ignoring the fact that the judge went out of his way to clearly state that bolt can comment on this matter as much as he wants, he just cannot lie in order to vilify people.

    Do you disagree with my statement about what the judge said?

  136. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:32 am

    “So, in other words, he’s too scared he’ll revert to lying about people in order to vilify them.”

    Strong words. He may be giving his honest opinion.

    Who are you to say who is telling lies??

    But his employer did not say he could not post.

  137. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:38 am

    Who are you to say who is telling lies??

    I didn’t, the judge did.

    But his employer did not say he could not post.

    No one did. It is just bolt playing the victim card. And lying about it again.

    Do you agree with my above statement about what the judge said about bolt still being able to comment. He is even allowed to have the articles online, as long as they include a link to the court case (or something like that)

  138. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:41 am

    What did the judge say?

  139. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:53 am

    What did the judge say?

    This

    All parties agree that any injunction made should be directed at the publication or republication of the articles themselves and not at the imputation conveyed by them. Mr Bolt and HWT oppose an order restraining the publication of articles whose content is substantially the same or similar to that of the articles which have contravened s 18C. Each of those positions is based upon the recognition that the orders which are made should be clear and precise including so that freedom of expression is not unnecessarily stifled.
    It is important that nothing in the orders I make should suggest that it is unlawful for a publication to deal with racial identification including challenging the genuineness of the identification of a group of people. I have not found Mr Bolt and HWT to have contravened s 18C simply because the Newspaper Articles dealt with subject matter of that kind. I have found a contravention because of the manner in which that subject matter was dealt with.
    Other than by prohibiting republication, controlling by an injunction the manner in which a subject matter is communicated is difficult in circumstances where the language, tone and structure of the publications in question make a significant contribution to the unlawful manner in which the subject matter was dealt with. Mr Bolt and HWT have not contended that a prohibition on republication should not extend to the whole of each of the impugned articles and that seems to me to be a sensible and practical approach. Such an order would prohibit publication of any part of the articles and should state so clearly. For those reasons and because of the need for the terms of an injunction to be clear and precise, I agree with Mr Bolt and HWT that the terms of an injunction should not extend to the publication of articles whose content is substantially the same as, or substantially similar to, that contained in the Newspaper Articles.
    In relation to the order sought that HWT remove offending articles from any online site under its control or direction, HWT contends that it would not be appropriate for that order to extend to the internet archives of the Herald Sun. It was contended, and I accept, that the internet archives of a significant media organisation such as the Herald Sun serves an important public interest by preserving and making available historical records of news and information: Times Newspapers Limited (Nos 1 and 2) v United Kingdom [2009] EMLR 14, 45-48. If I were to accede to that qualification, HWT has indicated its preparedness to consent to an order that it publish permanently and prominently, on the internet versions of the Newspaper Articles, a copy of the declaratory relief granted by the Court.

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2011/1103.html

  140. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 1, 2015 11:57 am

    I had a go at reading the post.

    I personally do not give a stuff what the judge said.

    But Companies have a right to say what their employees comment on.

    If you do not like the Companies policies you can go somewhere else.

  141. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 12:05 pm

    I personally do not give a stuff what the judge said.

    I take that means that, even though the judge said he is not stopping anyone from commenting, you’ll believe bolt when he says he’s too scared to ROFL

    If you do not like the Companies policies you can go somewhere else.

    Yes, because there are so many jobs out there ROFL

    Although, if you don’t like a judge restricting you from vilifying people inaccurately who do not have a massive soapbox with which to defend themselves, then just be scared 🙂

  142. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 12:08 pm

    WASTE!! BUDGET EMERGENCY!!

  143. May 1, 2015 12:29 pm

    lt is interesting that scott-mc is being compared to baniji, they seem to be very different. l notice they haven`t said whether the account/s were biz or personal either.

  144. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 12:36 pm

    There was no finding that Bolt lied in that quote Tom R.

  145. May 1, 2015 12:36 pm

    bloomberg””””’Air Force and Navy model engines flew about 25 hours between failures instead of the 120 hours planned.”””””’

    #Fcuking junk. On the upside, if the fcuking things can`t fly, it will at least make it much harder for them to crash and kill our pilots.

  146. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 1:01 pm

    There was no finding that Bolt lied in that quote Tom R.

    That quote was for nIl who keeps telling us that the court has now banned him from speaking., which it most specifically did not.

    The court found bolt relied on “false facts”. So he either lied, or is stoopid as fuck! I can go with stoopid as fuck! 🙂

  147. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 1:02 pm

    if the fcuking things can`t fly

    we could convert them into submarines?

  148. May 1, 2015 1:11 pm

    So team-cheerer, wtf is the point your trying to make with the massive blot copy/paste. Blot and scott-mc are totally different things.

  149. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 1, 2015 1:15 pm

    The court found bolt relied on “false facts”

    I do not give a stuff what the court said. The court may be right or the court may be wrong.

    But the company that Bolt works for had no problem with what he said other wise they would have told him to stop what he was saying.

    Why bring Bolt into what Macintyre said? The Company that Macintyre works for did not like what he said. The deadbeat can therefore go and work somewhere else.

  150. May 1, 2015 1:15 pm

    scratch that team-cheerer, your answered above 🙂

  151. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 1:26 pm

    The court may be right or the court may be wrong.

    facts is facts nIl, the court just applied that you cannot use incorrect ones to vilify people.

    But the company that Bolt works for had no problem with what he said

    Of course not, the company bolt works for bullshits as much/more as he does.

    Why bring Bolt into what Macintyre said?

    Because the ones who complained the most about bolt not being allowed to lie and vilify people at his whim were the first ones out of the blocks calling for McIntyres head. Do you not see the MASSIVE hypocrisy at work there? They should be fighting FOR him, not leading the charge against him. The same people who rallied behind “we have the right to be bigots” brandis forcing a guy out of his job because they didn’t like his comments.

    It’s fucken laughable

  152. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 1:52 pm

    If factual inaccuracy is enough to get you convicted then you and I are both screwed, Tom R. 🙂

    I think you are playing the man on this issue. The ruling was disgusting, not least because it muzzled Bolt from saying anything that is similar, whatever that means.

  153. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 1:58 pm

    If factual inaccuracy is enough to get you convicted then you and I are both screwed, Tom R.

    Except
    A), we are not defaming people with factual inaccuracies
    B) We are not sticking by it

    I mean, he could have fixed his lies, but he didn’t, he stuck by them ROFL

    because it muzzled Bolt from saying anything that is similar,

    Read the bit I posted above from the decision sb and see if you can still that with a straight face.

  154. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:01 pm

    The Bolt case has nothing in common with the McIntyre case. Nothing at all.

  155. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:06 pm

    Face not straight. Bolt is milking it.

  156. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:06 pm

    The Bolt case has nothing in common with the McIntyre case.

    Except both sides were screaming “freedom of speech” while assiduously ignoring the actual points

    Oh, and the fucken hypocritical stance taken by the bolt supporters

  157. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:17 pm

    I suppose if McIntyre had made those generalised, offensive, factually incorrect comments about an ethnic group, rather than about dead servicemen, he would have been prosecuted, like Bolt.

    I’m not sure I can take much comfort in our legal system as a result of that.

  158. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:19 pm

    Because the ones who complained the most about bolt not being allowed to lie and vilify people at his whim were the first ones out of the blocks calling for McIntyres head.

    erum … : |

    A), we are not defaming people with factual inaccuracies
    B) We are not sticking by it

    Isn’t that what McIntyre did … ?

    (Don’t bother … McIntyre was fired because he breached company protocols … Bolt wasn’t … as you pointed out – management prerogative …

  159. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:23 pm

    I’m not sure I can take much comfort in our legal system as a result of that.

    Bolt has/had a wider influence than McIntyre … y’know, working for reputable radio station, blog and TV station … GUFFAW!

  160. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:25 pm

    Brisbane heavy rain for two days … now thunder and lightening … high winds expected … Huey’s calendar must have stopped working … this is tropical storms – only bloody colder … weird …

  161. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:32 pm

    I’m not sure I can take much comfort in our legal system as a result of that.

    Why? Seemed like a fairly fair decision to me.

    If they had gone the defamation route, he could have/would have been up for shitloads

    Now, we just get to call him a racist 🙂

  162. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:35 pm

    “Brisbane heavy rain for two days”

    But Flim Flam said such rain would never happen again so we spent billions of dollars building desal plants.

    Tim Flannery- leftist, ALP supporter, deadbeat, wrong every time, deluder of people, false prophet and just a dumb human being. Got to be an ALP supporter.

  163. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:48 pm

    Not a fan of Tim Flannery never have been … but the droughts will return … Queensland has just completed pipelines across SE Queensland between dams (rain don’t fall everywhere at the same time in this state … what we need now is pipelines across the state and underground reservoirs … and start to open the centre of this country!

    But politicians have to see the cartoon show before the penny drops!

    1.94%! I hope Ms Palacek borrows a bit too!

  164. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 1, 2015 2:54 pm

    “Why? Seemed like a fairly fair decision to me.

    I kind of think that dead soldiers are as entitled to protection of their reputation as an ethnic group.

  165. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 3:03 pm

    Not a fan of Tim Flannery never have been

    Except of course you understand that nIl is verballing Flannery 😉

    I kind of think that dead soldiers are as entitled to protection of their reputation as an ethnic group.

    So where is yor lack of comfort in our legal system from the two results then yo’mm?

  166. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 1, 2015 3:23 pm

    If ethnic groups are entitled to legal protection from outrageous, incorrect and deliberately inflammatory comments, perhaps dead soldiers and even alive ones, should be accorded similar protection.

  167. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 3:23 pm

    ‘Except both sides were screaming “freedom of speech”

    True. But one of them was stupidly, irredeemably wrong. Bolt’s case was about the freedom of speech. McIntyre’s case was about termination of employment.

  168. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 3:30 pm

    But one of them was stupidly, irredeemably wrong.

    Indeedy!

  169. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 4:41 pm

    Bolt’s case was about the freedom of speech.

    Really, read the decision I posted up, it is very clear.

    I think perhaps you need to be added to the bolt hypocrite club sb.

    Free Speech, whenever you want it. lol

    McIntyre got sacked cos he broke a legal construct

    bolt got called a racist cos he broke a legal construct. Should he have been sacked? I reckon had they gone the defamation route and a maximum penalty, that might have been the outcome.

    But legally calling him a racist is not a bad second prize 😉

    perhaps dead soldiers and even alive ones, should be accorded similar protection.

    Refer to my comments about defamation yo’mm. Would be interesting to see how that went in a court of law with McIntyres comments.

  170. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 4:49 pm

    Bolt was punished by a court for exercising his right to free speech and was prevented from repeating his impugned speech by judicial order.

    McIntyre got sacked for being a dumb cunt.

  171. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 4:55 pm

    Bolt was punished by a court for exercising his right to free speech

    No, bolt was punished for vilifying people with lies but was not prevented from commenting further on that case as long as he did so without repeating the lies. It is written in this very thread sb, try to keep up.

    Does every case of defamation constitute an “attack on free speech”? If you think that, then you probably need to reassess what “free speech” is. And read Gillian Triggs column while you are at it.

    bolt merely refuses to comment probably because he is a dumb cunt and without lying, he has no argument.

    McIntyre showed he was also a dumb cunt.

  172. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 1, 2015 5:01 pm

    Refer to my comments about defamation yo’mm.

    That’s the point isn’t it? Soldiers alive and dead don’t have the same rights in defending their reputation, legacy, heritage from outrageous, provocative slurs from someone trying to make a name for themselves, as ethnic groups.

    That’s what I’m really not comfortable with.

  173. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 5:19 pm

    That’s what I’m really not comfortable with.

    Yet they still have a legal recourse.

    And, is there such a term as soldierist?

  174. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 5:23 pm

    “No, bolt was punished for vilifying people with lies but was not prevented from commenting further on that case as long as he did so without repeating the lies. It is written in this very thread sb, try to keep up.”

    Don’t start trolling. You have no evidence that Bolt lied, as opposed to having got some facts wrong.

    If the law criminalises getting the facts wrong then the system is clearly fucked. The ruling was that Bolt could not re-publish any part of what he said including the majority of what he said where he did not get the facts wrong.

  175. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 1, 2015 5:24 pm

    “Yet they still have a legal recourse. “

    How so?

  176. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 1, 2015 5:46 pm

    If there has been a group that was vilified for absolutely no fault of their own, it is probably the Vietnam veterans in the early 70s. Most were conscripted, had no choice.

    As a foolish left oriented youth I looked down on them.

    People like McIntyre reopen those wounds, and people conscripted to foreign wars are (arguably) as entitled to protection of their reputation as anyone else, even people of a particular ethnicity.

  177. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 5:46 pm

    I’d seriously look at selling those coal shares!

    HAWTHORNE, Calif. — Tesla founder Elon Musk just unveiled Tesla Energy, an ambitious plan to power the world with a new design of home battery called the Powerwall, with the aim of making more consumers less dependent on the grid …

    … The 10 kilowatt-hour Powerwall, available in a range of colors, functions best as a system of storage for solar power. But Musk points out it will also work for non-solar consumers in cases of power outage — as well as allowing them to avoid drawing on outside electricity during peak periods, when utility prices are highest …

    “It provides security, freedom and peace of mind,” Musk said — adding that “all we need” is to roll out 2 billion Powerwalls to meet the energy needs of the entire world, and that the poorest communities with no power lines will benefit the most.

    “That seems like a crazy number,” Musk admitted of the 2 billion figure, “but it’s comparable to the number of cars and trucks on the road [around the world] — and they get completely refreshed every 20 years.”

    http://mashable.com/2015/05/01/tesla-powerwall/

    GO SOLAR!

  178. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 6:00 pm

    Refer to my comments about defamation yo’mm. Would be interesting to see how that went in a court of law with McIntyres comments.

    So its civil action as the decider – not decency and moral issues we are dealing with here … as Tom, said he insulted all ex service personnel with regard to the content …

    Sorry, TR, but he broke a legal contract too … free speech is not an issue …

    And you know very well he would not say something like he did standing at bar on Anzac Day … some things really are un-Australian if you haven’t done the hard yards …

    Soldiers alive and dead don’t have the same rights in defending their reputation,

    Example: 1971 … Nasho – ordered to wear polyester dress uniform to my place of work as a Craftsman – vehicle mechanic (Standing Orders) … waiting for ferry … smart arse decides I epitomise all Diggers … so rants and raves and spits on me/my uniform … he’s against the Vietnam War – apparently … so am I — but I don’t have the privilege of retaliating (Standing Orders) … or I would have been charged … strangely enough … with conduct unbecoming (ie bringing the Army into disrepute) … if found guilty I would have been fined and probably given extra duties (my wife and little girl would have loved that!) …

    Blogs and real world, hey …

    Bolt and McIntyre both got less than they deserve …

  179. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 6:02 pm

    … where he did not get the facts wrong.

    But the “facts” in question were available … and he chose to make up his own story …

    How do you define lying? sb ?

  180. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 6:05 pm

    as opposed to having got some facts wrong.

    Except he was advised of his mistake, but refused to change his story.

    If the law criminalises getting the facts wrong then the system is clearly fucked.

    See above. And, he did it while vilifying people

    The ruling was that Bolt could not re-publish any part of what he said including the majority of what he said where he did not get the facts wrong.

    I could just say you are now being pig ignorant, but I’m not that sort of person 😉 🙂

    In relation to the order sought that HWT remove offending articles from any online site under its control or direction, HWT contends that it would not be appropriate for that order to extend to the internet archives of the Herald Sun. It was contended, and I accept, that the internet archives of a significant media organisation such as the Herald Sun serves an important public interest by preserving and making available historical records of news and information: Times Newspapers Limited (Nos 1 and 2) v United Kingdom [2009] EMLR 14, 45-48. If I were to accede to that qualification, HWT has indicated its preparedness to consent to an order that it publish permanently and prominently, on the internet versions of the Newspaper Articles, a copy of the declaratory relief granted by the Court.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_white_is_the_new_black

    Of course, you’ll probably go “re-publish”. But, he is allowed to comment freely, just without lying again to try and prove his point. Of course, he could, but, like McIntyre, would suffer the consequence. Funnily enough, we never hear Derrin Hynch crapping on about “free speech”. He just cops it, knowing full well what he is doing. That you gotta admire, even if you don’t agree with it.

    How so?

    refer to me referring yomm to the defamation thingy 😉

    People like McIntyre reopen those wounds

    I don’t disagree. What McIntyre said was stoopid, hurtful and inflammatory. It was also wrong, in the fact that he seemed to tie ALL soldiers to the acts of a few. He got what he deserved, since he didn’t seem to want to rectify/clarify his comments. Just like bolt.

    GO SOLAR!

    FUCK YEA!

  181. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 6:07 pm

    As a foolish left oriented youth I looked down on them.

    It was you!!!!

    Check the times of our comments, ToM … uncanny! Doo do do doo do! 🙂

  182. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 1, 2015 6:12 pm

    …Don’t start trolling. You have no evidence that Bolt lied, as opposed to having got some facts wrong…

    Stating incorrect facts and standing by them even when informed correctly, is telling lies. The martyred victim act that bolt indulges in now, his stupid ‘can’t comment’ stuff shows he still lies and is not interested in factual journalism, just inciting hate, divide and racism.

    Bolt has an incredible glass jaw, he can dish it out but he cries like a baby when he cops any himself. Now he’s made it his mission to get the law that pinged him removed, once more he makes sure he’s got the most influential people in the country to spruik support for him.

    If he was interested in defending his opinions he would engage with his detactors not cowardly hide from them in his newsltd sheltered workshop. He has no personal twitter account [even though his employer is supportive of his hate talk/attacks] he is too gutless to take them on. He did have one once and it was quickly removed when he copped criticism. He has a blog complete with rusted on rednecks, retards and religious nutters, which has always been heavily censored against those who oppose his views.

    Nowhere does he ever air his offensive and hateful views in an arena that he doesn’t have complete control of any backlash from his audience.

  183. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 1, 2015 6:32 pm

    …If the law criminalises getting the facts wrong then the system is clearly fucked…

    Bolt was tried in a civil court, he wasn’t ‘criminalised’.

    And it should judge on ‘getting the facts wrong’, the law is all about evidence and fact, sorting through lies, deceptions, dishonesty, misrepresentations and defamations etc.

  184. May 1, 2015 6:42 pm

    “Bolt was punished by a court for exercising his right to free speech and was prevented from repeating his impugned speech by judicial order.

    McIntyre got sacked for being a dumb cunt.”

    This is all ‘true’.

    But, Bolt, the self-lauded ‘freespeechwarrior’ is unobtrusively gagged about the potential chilling effects upon free speech which the strangulation of the internet (well underway now) in Australia will cause. maybe it’s because his soapbox has the biggest pile of money to prop itself up upon?

  185. Walrus permalink
    May 1, 2015 6:44 pm

    Oh…..bloody hell we are all talking about Bolt again are we.

    How many times has that been discussed ?

    Why dont we talk about home insulation or school halls for a change ????????

    And why do Melbourne people put up with all these bullshit protests. It must drive ordinary people crazy. At least in Sydney they have to register and request permission from the Police first ?

  186. May 1, 2015 6:46 pm

    Needless to say, I’ve perused Bolt’s usual victimhood articles this week. They are as plaintive & introspective as usual.

    I have been impressed with some of his reasoned opinion about the need to be rational in reaction to the executions though. He certainly fears the riled herd & its possible negative consequences (often rightly)…but at the same time, actively cultivates & agitates his own highly emotive, reactive, semi-informed ‘herd’ of followers.

  187. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 7:21 pm

    Wonder how many wannabe drug lords have been “educated” by Indonesia’s final penalty for them …?

    Just so you know how strongly I feel about “doing the right thing” … my son approched me for another loan for his car – and was told by me that if he came to me again for a loan of thousands of $$$ (which he did pay back BTW) when he was “gainfully employed” … “even if someone threatened to harm him”, I would say, “No” – “He stopped borrowing” and got his finances together – sort of – and then he got married and they really got sorted …

    While I feel sorry for parents … I always have niggling doubts …

    I actually watched the last half of Dr Phil today – he seems to be a cool dude!

    Where I come from tuff “love” works! And believe me I love all my kids … every one!

  188. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 7:31 pm

    How many times has that been discussed ?

    Every time bolt or his ilk cry crocodile tears of martyrdom over their right to be bigots, and then line up to applaud a lefty bigot being punished for what they are trying to defend.

    Worst still, they were the first ones out of the block calling for his head. Watching chris kenny come out and defend bolt while attacking others especially after his bitch with the chasers team.

  189. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 7:34 pm

    While I feel sorry for parents … I always have niggling doubts …

    🙂

    https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/parents-sum-up-parenthood-one-tweet-2.jpg?quality=94&strip=all

  190. May 1, 2015 8:03 pm

    I’m back from Adelaide.

  191. May 1, 2015 8:06 pm

    And””””””’why do Melbourne people put up with all these bullshit protests.””””’in Sydney they have to register and request permission from the Police first ?””””””#yay.freedom

  192. May 1, 2015 8:06 pm

    I was attending a conference.

    Where the audience consisted of..

  193. May 1, 2015 8:07 pm

    115 accountants.

  194. May 1, 2015 8:07 pm

    “relieved to be home” doesn’t quite cut it.

  195. May 1, 2015 8:11 pm

    There was one gripping guest speaker who had the audience in the palm of his hands with his presentation on “the latest govt amendments to Fringe Benefits Tax.”

    I turned to ask my colleague “you didn’t happen to pack a set of knitting needles with you did you?”

    Because right about now, I’d be ramming them into my ear drums.

  196. Tom R permalink
    May 1, 2015 8:11 pm

    I’m back from Adelaide.

    The place seems dead again already

  197. May 1, 2015 8:13 pm

    Why would you go to canoe-town to `listen` to 115 accountants FFS.? When you already have two right here that aren`t worth listening to.

  198. May 1, 2015 8:16 pm

    Let’s just say “it wasn’t by choice” bagz.

  199. May 1, 2015 8:20 pm

    Tom, aside from the conference, my colleague and I had a great time.

    We had a lovely meal at this place on Wednesday night…

    http://www.theamarinthai.com.au

    and during the day we did a whirlwind trip to the barossa, picked up some great reds. (Barossa Valley is so much nicer than Hunter Valley), and we visited a 94 year old war vet who flew spitfires on D-Day in WWII (he lived up on One Tree Hill road.

  200. TB Queensland permalink
    May 1, 2015 8:23 pm

    I’m back from Adelaide. 115 accountants.

    Thank christ for that! Well done!

  201. May 1, 2015 9:31 pm

    Powerwall””””””””’is designed to be installed in `under an hour,` so labor costs should be minimal.

    The product will also be launched in Germany, a solar-friendly country, before the end of the year, Musk said.

    #Fantastic find teebz. Watch how long `this` and grid-abandonment is ignored by east-coast politicians and teabag-media. The west-coast pollies and media reported `around` Nov-2013 the `threat` to wa/state of probable grid-abandonment and needing to have an `action-plan` as off-grid solar is predicted to rise in their state. #suck.it.up.teabags

  202. Tom R permalink
    May 2, 2015 7:14 am

    From your link TB

    The Powerwall will be connected to the Internet, Musk says, to allow for the creation of local smart grids. Up to 9 devices representing 90 kilowatt hours can be stacked per home. The Powerpack, however, is intended to scale up all the way to maximum industrial usage.

    That’s a pretty powerful tool right there, but, it also kind off works against itself. I would assume most people would want one so they can get off the grid (I know that is what we want)

    I can also see a world of pain coming up for electricity companies and those unfortunate enough to remain reliant on them. Actually, I only feel sorry for those still reliant on them, the companies would.should have seen this coming, and, instead of improving their service, have spent the past decade gouging their customers. They deserve the pain coming. The users tied to them don’t. It’s going to be nasty I think.

    Although, if the transmission companies were smart, they could use the inter-connectivity of the system to lure these purchasing the Powerwall people back. But I think the companies have done their dash. Too much abuse for far too long.

    #suck.it.up.teabags

  203. TB Queensland permalink
    May 2, 2015 11:27 am

    RE Powerwall … that $3-3,500 price tag is obviously US$ … right now the $3,500 would be $4,460 … 10Kw should be more than enough … but I might consider two to allow for those cloudy days … especially if I’m free of even more government interference in my life!

    Now if only I could afford a Tesla car …

    The soon-to-arrive new Tesla Model S sedan from $91,400 to $119,900 in Australia, within shout of its $69,900 to $93,400 US price. Similarly priced models from BMW and Mercedes-Benz cost up to $150,000 more in Australia than the US.May 30, 2014

    Expected 2016 … order for or reserve (whatever the difference is?) $3k or $6k respectively!

  204. May 2, 2015 4:38 pm

    As soon as I can get viable batteries here, I’m off the grid…with a big Fuck You to the electricity rapists on my way over the horizon.

  205. TB Queensland permalink
    May 2, 2015 4:55 pm

    We could hook up over the interwebby, Toylet, hey?

  206. May 2, 2015 5:27 pm

    Increasingly, when I hook up to the internet, my IP thinks I’m in Europe.

  207. May 2, 2015 5:28 pm

    If those batteries do what they say, then it would be money well spent.

    I too feel for the poor consumers who can’t afford to escape the Electricity Network Perpetual Rape Cycle.

  208. TB Queensland permalink
    May 2, 2015 10:57 pm

    <… my IP thinks I’m in Europe.

    Chuckle … hide me … hide me … 😉

  209. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 2, 2015 10:59 pm

    Unions add so much to progressive policies in the ALP! Today’s example…

    “Marriage started with Adam and Eve,” says Joe de Bruyn, earnest and straight-faced.
    It is an “objective” truth, he says, that same-sex couples cannot marry.
    In an austere central Melbourne office, the Dutch-born de Bruyn is reflecting on four decades with the Shop, Distributive & Allied Employees’ Association (SDA), the “shoppies”, the last bastion of conservative Catholicism in the Australian labour movement and the largest union affiliated to Labor.
    He says he wants to talk industrial relations, not sex and morality. But there is no unpicking the workplace from homosexuality, IVF, and stem cell research for the man Gough Whitlam famously dubbed “a Dutchman who hates dykes”.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/why-is-the-union-that-represents-supermarket-workers-stopping-gay-marriage-20150501-1mwl32.html

  210. May 3, 2015 8:56 am

    tr””””but, it also kind off works against itself.”””’

    #that`s just showing `further` options team-cheerer, obviously, when l get this (or-something-like), l won`t be connecting to any other fcuker, or the web, there`s not need to.

    +

    tr”””I would assume most people would want one so they can get off the grid (I know that is what we want)”””””#yep-ditto

    dunny””””As soon as I can get viable batteries here, I`m off the grid .. with a big Fuck You to the electricity rapists””””#ditto

    dunny”””’If those batteries do what they say, then it would be money well spent.”””#agree

    #lt will also be interesting to see what blot-squealing would begin, if the public en-mass started dumping the grid and leaving team-teabag to fund big-coals profits.

    #There is little doubt in my mind that the grid will be abandoned, when possible. l know city `office`towers and westfield like `centre` and property owners are very interested in biofuels digested from waste that burn very cleanly is being sought. They want to get off the grid too. Their buildings already have the fuel systems and generators installed for `emergency`/standby use.

  211. May 3, 2015 9:12 am

    On my abc this morning, it is a `bottom-of-barrel` episode, barrie is away, so toolman running the show. Dear old hendo is doing his best to make sure `insiders` is as underwhelming as possible to. Scott morrison clips don`t help.

  212. TB Queensland permalink
    May 3, 2015 7:10 pm

    I wonder how many families today discussed out the horrors of the death penalty … and how wrong that is …

    … AND then explained to their children the stupidity of two grubs who talked seven stupid people into muling heroine into Indonesia … just so that the thugs running the drug run would not face the same risk of a firing squad that they eventually suffered!

    My family did – and we had no dissenters (I thought FMD! that’s a first!) …

    … the loin pork on the new BBQ and rotisserie was extremely well received too!

    I was also pissed off with the little bit I saw of both Barrie Cassidy and the “panel” referring to the drug smugglers as “the boys” … the fkn boys? And don’t tell me that the journos don’t get emotive language? Oh, wait … I said journos …

    Strangely, I started to agree with Gerard H! Am I becoming a Tory? !!

    This world hasn’t gone mad – its gone fkn stupid! Zombie Fone© mentality!

    Duh!

  213. Neil of Sydney permalink
    May 3, 2015 7:23 pm

    Am I becoming a Tory? !!

    We don’t have Tory’s in Australia

  214. May 3, 2015 8:02 pm

    two”””grubs who talked seven stupid people into muling heroine””’#teh-boyz

    #Has everybody noticed bananasby mentioning his electorate.?

    #The inner-latte elite bleating over the 2-donkeys being executed is not an `absolute`view of all aussies, even tho teabag-media has tried to portray it that way. Most still have the `no-sympathy` view, as they did 10-years ago, when the donkeys were busted.

  215. May 4, 2015 8:44 am

    Tonights #4corners will show-up the teabags 457-visa slavery. #lt`s been going on since the 1990`s on the `back-packer` trails, glad to see teabag-media catch-up. .. #2319

    +

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/-20150503-1mxxjp.html

    #canoe.panic

  216. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 8:47 am

    Turns out yabot was bullshitting again. I’m not surprised, In fact, I don’t think we have seen the depths of his bullshit in this regard.

    Tony Abbott acted against the direct advice of the Defence Department when he talked up the possibility of Japan winning the $20 billion “Future Submarines” contract.
    ……..
    The advice does not make any mention of Japan as a preferred builder or designer.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-acted-against-defence-advice-on-subs-20150503-1mxxjp.touch.html?skin=smart-phone

    I can understand yabot lying, it appears to be his default setting. But why does he insist on forcing Australian jobs overseas? Does he not care because he is still a pom?

    Nah, I reckon it is the yomm factor, the innate hatred of Unions. 😉

  217. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 8:48 am

    The contradictions within this grubmint is reaching plague proportions.

  218. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:07 am

    …Most still have the `no-sympathy` view, as they did 10-years ago, when the donkeys were busted…

    I don’t agree with the death penalty at all and would like to see it removed world wide.

    To me, it seemed to be too little, too late. As a nation, we let these people rot for 10+ years, no-one cared except the families and then when it all becomes inevitable, there is a belated campaign to save them.

    Isn’t jail for 10 years enough to repay any debt to society? And then to have execution at the end of it, so barbaric, cruel and absolutely inhumane.

    Perhaps we should move on to US style justice and just shoot people dead in the street, innocent or guilty, makes no matter. Cops have the licence to kill with impunity whenever they feel like it.

    More and more I believe that in this country we badly need a bill of rights, what we have now is our inalienable and inviolable human rights taken away at the whim of any corrupt politician. Look how that has worked out, we’re run by corporations and their puppet politicians.

    We don’t have Tory’s in Australia

    No, we have worse, we have looney teabags

  219. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:08 am

    Deep inside the AFP bunker they will be preparing for their press conference with highly paid spin doctors (at our expense).

    Practicing bulls**t, obfuscation, evasion, diversion. Excusing the inexcusable and the unforgivable. They’ll fudge it.

    The actions of the AFP in deliberately getting people shot to death are indefensible and outrageous. The press conference should be interesting, but will the press ask some hard questions?

    Just last month, AFP commissioner Andrew Colvin, who was working under former commissioner Mick Keelty at the time, said the AFP would bear no responsibility if Chan and Sukumaran were executed.
    “Put simply, do we have blood on our hands? No,” Mr Colvin said.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/crime/afp-to-break-silence-over-bali-nine/story-fns0kb1g-1227333792017

  220. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:11 am

    “Put simply, do we have blood on our hands? No,”

    They probably have industrial strength Solvol.

  221. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:17 am

    This budget is shaping up to be a cracker. I understand the libs want to pretend it isn’t going to happen, but it has to, and their positions on tax v cuts will be interesting to watch. As has been mentioned previously, there isn’t much left to cut, but there is a lot left to tax

    Australia’s boom is heading for bust, with deficits over the next four years blowing out by $47bn in just the past six months due to plummeting commodity prices and the rejection of last year’s budget savings, new forecasts show.

    …..
    “Most of the $18bn in tax breaks designed to help people get off the age pension is being gained by people who would not be able to claim the pension anyway,” he said.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/may/03/australias-budget-deficits-to-blow-out-by-47bn-over-four-years-modelling-shows?CMP=soc_568

    And that’s just one source. The real big one is the big end of town living it large while those at the bottom are being (or attempted to be) slugged.

    The 13 page document, seen by the ABC, is dynamite and is likely to prove many of our biggest companies pay nowhere near the level of tax they claim.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-04/verrender-document-reveals-tax-multinationals-should-pay/6441558

  222. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:22 am

    No, we have worse, we have looney teabags

    And they control the grubmint and the media

  223. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:38 am

    …Practicing bulls**t, obfuscation, evasion, diversion. Excusing the inexcusable and the unforgivable. They’ll fudge it…

    Exactly, it’ll be a face saving exercise to protect their reputation. I think john howard was as much to blame as the AFP though, there was a decision made that an example should be made of these young people. Keelty was pulled into line very early in howard’s reign, he was so owned by that government that he had to resign as soon as labor came to government.

    To me, the AFP appears to be a highly politicised organisation. They do their job, no questions asked for a liberal govt and sit around twiddling their thumbs and looking the other way when the libs themselves or the ‘mr bigs’ need investigating.

    …The press conference should be interesting, but will the press ask some hard questions?…

    No, of course not. Who actually does have the power to investigate the AFP?

    Should tony abbott really have been living at their barracks like they are some kind of scouts group?

    …And that’s just one source. The real big one is the big end of town living it large while those at the bottom are being (or attempted to be) slugged…

    What, no trickle down? Well, what a surprisement, why has no-one noticed the giant con and fraud upon the people that is neoliberal economics?

  224. May 4, 2015 9:44 am

    Opposition””””””””Leader Bill Shorten has scuttled Deputy Leader Tanya Plibersek’s move to push the Labor party to a binding vote on equal marriage in a powerful speech in which he declared that now was not the time to do things or act on thoughts.

    ””””””””””””””””’

    #shh.blib

  225. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:46 am

    ”But why does he insist on forcing Australian jobs overseas? Does he not care because he is still a pom?

    Hmmm….
    On the other hand, I notice –

    The Australian Shipowners Association has told the Productivity Commission that it is important to understand that the starting point for the bargaining changes it is seeking is the “disproportionate industrial power” wielded by the maritime unions.
    In its submission to the PC’s IR inquiry, the association argues that operators in all subsectors of the maritime industry face:
    • a small number of employees (between three and 22) on any one asset, represented by three different unions;
    • a refusal by the unions, in most cases, to operate as a single bargaining unit, meaning management has to negotiate three separate agreements and individual unions gain leverage by “holding out” in bargaining;
    • high capital asset costs, with vessels ranging from millions to hundreds of millions of dollars, and the “consequent impact on financing arrangements in the event that those assets cease generating revenue”; and
    • the ability of industrial action by all three unions to shut down a business.

    Maybe the unions – and their inability to get past their own narrow self interests are a bit of a problem after all

  226. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:51 am

    Maybe the unions – and their inability to get past their own narrow self interests are a bit of a problem after all

    Or perhaps the companies fail to recognise that their business employ a wide sub sector of the community?

    I mean, it’s not like thei’r building canoes, is it?

  227. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:54 am

    lol teabagz, you’ve been Onioned 😉

  228. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:55 am

    Who actually does have the power to investigate the AFP?

    The AFP

    What, no trickle down?

    Well, there is, but this grubmint is making sure that any trickle is re-diverted back to the top 😉

  229. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 9:58 am

    …a powerful speech in which he declared that now was not the time to do things or act on thoughts…

    Bill having ‘thoughts’ of not becoming PM.

    Can’t have joe de bruyn threatening all kinds of reprisals [even though he’s never bothered to poll his own membership on the issue] and can’t have the labor right [shorten’s power base] all walking away.

    It should be a binding vote, that is the only way gay marriage will be recognised here. I detest these cowardly ‘conscience votes’ that politicians give themselves, which ensure the status quo in this country.

    I think a clean out like that is exactly what labor needs, let them walk and have some renewal.

  230. TB Queensland permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:02 am

    Let’s bring more money shuffling, skimming Robber Barons into the country …

    The immigrants in the 50’s and 60’s had to bring skills – profession as or trades … (10 quid poms – certainly gave back more than they recieved)

    THE Abbott Government is considering a radical overhaul to the immigration system that would allow the richest foreigners to buy their way into Australia.

    The Australian government’s independent advisory body, the Productivity Commission, is investigating a proposal that would make entry charges the “primary basis for selection of migrants”.

    This would mean that migrants would be chosen based on how much they could pay, rather than their work skills or family connections to Australia.

    The commission’s issues paper discusses a variety of models, including scrapping immigration caps and allowing a price to dictate the size of the intake. An alternative model would make demand for entry determine the visa price.

    “Charging for entry may also conflict with equity or fairness objectives,” the issues paper states.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/immigration-overhaul-would-hand-australian-visas-to-richest-foreigners/story-fn84fgcm-1227333873930

  231. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:03 am

    Bill having ‘thoughts’ of not becoming PM.

    It’s a satire site AO, fyi 😉

  232. May 4, 2015 10:05 am

    “”…Practicing bulls**t, obfuscation, evasion, diversion. Excusing the inexcusable and the unforgivable. They’ll fudge it…””

    I know. It’s all so predictable.

  233. May 4, 2015 10:07 am

    “”Bill having ‘thoughts’ of not becoming PM.””

    Well at least he’ll be able to keep Malcolm and Hockey company in the “thoughts of not becoming PM” club lounge.

  234. May 4, 2015 10:09 am

    BTW, despite what people say, Adelaide is actually quite nice.

  235. May 4, 2015 10:11 am

    boo of.melb”””’gain leverage by `holding out` in bargaining”””

    #2319 .. #onions doing what business does

  236. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:11 am

    Adelaide is actually quite nice.

    FUCK OFF!

  237. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:12 am

    btw, my last post was a satire site too 😉

  238. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:18 am

  239. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:24 am

    PM scuttled secret plan to kick millionaires off the aged pension

    I saw an “advert” last night from the grubmint declaring that they are not getting rid of the pension and indexing will still happen (failing of course that the indexing will be lower), and then attacking state Governments for raising taxes.

    I mean, what other option do state Governments have when the grubmint slashes so much from health and education.

    And why does a tax payer funded “advert” have any right to only tell half a story, and attack other governments at the same time?

    Is that ethical? Lawful?

  240. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:25 am

    …Who actually does have the power to investigate the AFP?
    The AFP…

    it’s all so hopelessly corrupt isn’t it?

    police investigate themselves, defence investigates itself, politicians & govt investigate themselves, big business self regulates.

    What hope is there for an honest and transparent system of governance where wrongdoing is punished and highlighted, where citizens are protected?

  241. May 4, 2015 10:31 am

    there”””is a belated campaign to save them.”””’

    #disagree, there was a bit of panto and croc-tears by mr-rabbit and jooLIE for future reference at next election, so they can claim they did all they could on humanitarian grounds(which they usually don`t give a flying fcuk about, iraq,gulags, boatpeople,etc) and sucked-in the lattes at my abc.

    #While mr-rabbit had the zombies, team-blib, clive, xeno, greens and teabag-media all riding on his `white-is-right`, `do-as-l-say-not-as-l-do` hypocrisy bus, nobody was paying any attention to mr-rabbits failures or giving blib any air-time.

  242. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:32 am

    🙄

  243. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:37 am

  244. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:39 am

  245. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:39 am

    See You Next Tuesday I guess Bernard 😉

  246. TB Queensland permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:40 am

    … that their business employ a wide sub sector of the community?

    Was that intentional, TR … sub sector ?? 🙂

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    … which ensure the status quo in this country.

    More like ensure a religious stance, methinks, KL …

    Dog – the religious texts – gets in yer eyes …

  247. May 4, 2015 10:44 am

    tr”””lol teabagz, you`ve been Onioned””’#shh.blib

    #nah, knew it was satire, (think it snagged armchair tho) 🙂

  248. TB Queensland permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:49 am

    BTW, despite what people say, Adelaide is actually quite nice.

    We actually knew that … I did find four days was well enough tho’ …

    How was the fly floater?

  249. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:55 am

    … (think it snagged armchair tho)…

    It did, I didn’t even see tomR’s post, I commented on teabagz post @ 9:44 am!

  250. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:56 am

    knew it was satire

    I believes ya, trooly I does. 😉

  251. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 10:58 am

  252. May 4, 2015 11:00 am

    Just astonishing…

  253. May 4, 2015 11:00 am

    Oh, I see Armchair beat me to it…!

  254. May 4, 2015 11:06 am
  255. TB Queensland permalink
    May 4, 2015 11:27 am

    It would have been so much easier all round if the two “boys” hadn’t decided to “play” drug smugglers … tut tut …

  256. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 11:30 am

  257. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 11:36 am

  258. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 11:40 am

  259. May 4, 2015 12:42 pm

    my abc””””””If you`re big enough, say the size of BHP, you can negotiate a tax rate in Singapore as low as 0.002 per cent,

    ###selling your iron ore cheaply to a virtual marketing company which then on-sells it to China for a big mark up.### What a lurk!”””””””

    #oil companies sell like this too, up to 13-times, and it doesn`t even leave the refinery pipe.

  260. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 4, 2015 1:31 pm

    Earlier in the media conference, Mr Colvin said that some of the public commentary suggesting the AFP had “blood on its hands” in the case was unnecessarily harsh.
    “Cartoons depicting the AFP as the firing squad or the Grim Reaper are not only misinformed and ill-guided, they are in my view in very bad taste,” he said.

    Well, I now feel so guilty for possibly hurting the feelings of some plods. I may have previously used harsh and bad taste terms.

    My humble apologies if I’ve offended a pack of pr*cks for handing over citizens to people who would shoot them.

    Apologies too, if Mr Colvin is offended by this – HE’S A STUPID C**T WHO HAS TOTALLY LOST THE PLOT

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bali-nine-executions-afp-defends-its-role-in-arrests-20150504-1mz88a.html

  261. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 1:44 pm

    Perhaps he meant it it is in poor taste for firing squads and grim reapers to be associated with AFP, rather than the other way around?

  262. May 4, 2015 2:06 pm

    I think what Mr Colvin means by his remarks is that it’s really the AFP who’s the victim in all of this.

  263. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 2:14 pm

    …Well, I now feel so guilty for possibly hurting the feelings of some plods. I may have previously used harsh and bad taste terms…

    There was nothing said in that press conference to justify their actions, in my view, they still have blood on their hands.

    They knew the bali 9 could get the death penalty and they went ahead anyway. The ‘guidelines’ might have changed since 2005 but it could still happen again.

  264. Splatterbottom permalink
    May 4, 2015 2:24 pm

    The AFP didn’t have much choice once the government decided Australia will co-operate with Indonesia in such matters.

    The drug kingpins have got what they deserved. And every wanker in town has gone into overdrive pleasuring themselves over this. Surely this is the moment when Australia has achieved Peak Posturing.

  265. May 4, 2015 2:35 pm

    “”Peak Posturing””

    🙂

  266. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 3:11 pm

    Peak Posthumous.

  267. TB Queensland permalink
    May 4, 2015 3:33 pm

    Peak Downs

  268. TB Queensland permalink
    May 4, 2015 3:34 pm

    Surely this is the moment when Australia has achieved Peak Posturing.

    Or simply lost the fkn plot, sb …

  269. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 3:40 pm

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/04/afp-officer-asked-to-be-taken-off-bali-nine-case-because-of-death-penalty-risk

    …Explaining why charges could not have been laid in Australia on the group’s return, Colvin said: “Just as you would not expect the Indonesian police to dictate to the AFP – nor any other law enforcement agency in this country – how we should deal with the commission of serious crimes in Australia, nor can we dictate to our Indonesian partners or foreign partners how to deal with the commission of serious crimes in their country. This is the harsh reality for Australians who go overseas and become involved in serious crimes.”…

    Excuse me, but that is no answer at all, just an evasion and diversion.
    The AFP cannot satisfactorily answer why they didn’t just arrest them all on return to australia. The indonesians may have got the bali 9 at their own airport, but that is the chance they all took anyway.

    They still can’t answer the question.

    Still have blood on their hands.

  270. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 4, 2015 4:02 pm

    How to tell if the AFP have been out and about…

  271. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 4, 2015 4:05 pm

    ..and surely the AFP wouldn’t find this “harsh” or “bad taste” – it isn’t a cartoon.

  272. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 4:13 pm

    Ken Crisp QC making brilliant arguments against the AFP’s action on ABC [the drum] right now, saying things like the corrupt indonesian legal system that they given up to and possibly no fair trial, the idea that death penalty acts as a deterrent is rubbish and doesn’t justify lining up australian people to be murdered.
    Supremely unlikely that people can divest themselves of drugs in transit, they could’ve been arrested on the tarmac.We have every right to defend our principles of no death penalty, can’t just say that’s it’s OK as other countries ‘do things differently’. Many innocent people executed in the US.

  273. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 4:24 pm

  274. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 4:37 pm

  275. armchair opinionator permalink
    May 4, 2015 5:16 pm

    Bali 9: the AFP got its priorities wrong:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-04/renshaw-bali-9-and-the-afp/6443692

  276. TB Queensland permalink
    May 4, 2015 6:01 pm

    The indonesians may have got the bali 9 at their own airport, but that is the chance they all took anyway.

    But that IS the chance they took with seven OTHER people’s lives … it’s ironic that the two “boys” were executed … hey?

    Why do we even bother putting serial speedsters in jail … y’know, the one’s that could kill or maim others (and often do) … oh, wait!

    And let teenagers walk free after beating up a disabled man they didn’t know, with a brick …

    Why don’t we all go out … get high and sit in the jungle all day?

  277. Tom R permalink
    May 4, 2015 6:04 pm

    The AFP cannot satisfactorily answer why they didn’t just arrest them all on return to australia.

    I heard this morning that the AFP had enough on them to arrest them before they left. That was the statement I “thought” I heard this morning.

  278. TB Queensland permalink
    May 4, 2015 6:07 pm

    https://www.facebook.com/SevenNewsBrisbane

  279. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    May 4, 2015 8:06 pm

    Get your AFP souvenir tee shirts here – send $25 to tomofmelbourne@gmail.com

    Hurry!

  280. May 4, 2015 8:39 pm

    “BTW, despite what people say, Adelaide is actually quite nice.
    We actually knew that … I did find four days was well enough tho’ …”

    I may have said this before, but, I spent a week in Adelaide one afternoon.

  281. May 4, 2015 8:42 pm

    ALP barrackers have hated the Federal Police since Mick Keelty did something or other (I can’t quite recall what) during the Howard government. That’s not to say their criticisms are unfounded in this case.

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