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Kevin or Julia, who is telling the Troof?

June 9, 2015

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Not content with having the weakest Opposition Leader in living history, the Australian Labor party is about to regurgitate its rotting festering guts in an explosive “tell all” expose on bagz’ ABC tonight.

Former PM Julia Gillard claims she was intimidated and bullied by Kevin Rudd when things didn’t go his way during a political tactics meeting when the pair were serving as opposition leader and deputy.

She says he was aggressive and confrontational.

He says those claims are “utterly false.”

“Utterly, utterly false,” just in case you mis-heard him the first time.

At the helm is Sarah Ferguson, the ferocious new talent at the ABC who deserves to take her place as the rightful heir to the ABC 7:30 report instead of the insipid Chris Ulhmann or self-satisfied Leigh Sales, but I doubt we’ll see that in a hurry.

Tonight’s episode is the first in a three-part documentary, which will no doubt see much wailing and gnashing of teeth, but who should we believe, who’s version of the troof will reign supreme?

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319 Comments leave one →
  1. June 9, 2015 5:20 pm

    Great call reb, fergie should run reportland.

    The `troof`, it will remain as elusive as always.

  2. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 9, 2015 5:22 pm

    So Gillard is saying that Rudd was a bully and harasser, but she sold him to the public as the ideal PM anyway.

    Isn’t Gillard admitting that she lied (again)?

  3. June 9, 2015 5:27 pm

    TJ could take a few pointers off his wife/partner too. #fergie

  4. Tom R permalink
    June 9, 2015 6:00 pm

    So Gillard is saying that Rudd was a bully and harasser

    wow, a politician with an ego.

    Who’d have thunk it.

    So, was he misogynistic towards her, or just arrogant and bullish?

    Shit, Keating would be pissing himself at all this.

  5. TB Queensland permalink
    June 9, 2015 6:06 pm

    WGAF! … Who’s running the fkn country! 😈

  6. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 9, 2015 6:43 pm

    wow, a politician with an ego.

    Does Bullying & harassment = ego?

    How’s that?
    ——
    Gillard now says she lied about Rudd’s personal traits. No surprises there, she’s got form.

  7. Tom R permalink
    June 9, 2015 6:52 pm

    Gillard now says she lied about Rudd’s personal traits.

    Wow, that’s some bow you got there.

    But milk it for all it’s worth. ltdnews will be milking the lefty abc like crazy, along with their Union witch hunt.

    And the right wingers are STILL crying about the “lefty” abc ROFL

    When do we get to see at home with tabot?

  8. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 9, 2015 9:04 pm

    Thus far, Kev comes out of this show better than Julia.

    No surprises there

  9. June 9, 2015 9:43 pm

    2319 .. end of episode-1 .. l`m agreeing with boo of melb .. again!

  10. June 9, 2015 10:04 pm

    Team-cheerers won`t like it that episode-1 had many `voices` stating how well kevin07 did to get them into govt, sorry-day, duck the gfc, remained out of recession, had lowest debt of `teh-west`, and his worst decisions were `trusting` joolya and arbib.

    #looking.forward.to.episode-2

  11. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 10, 2015 7:34 am

    had lowest debt of `teh-west

    Thanks to Costello. It needs to be mentioned again that in 2007 the Commonwealth was debt free. In fact we had money in the bank. Govt debt was at -3.8% of GDP in 2007. Yes minus 3.8%.

    However thanks to Kevin, Julia and Wayne and the people who voted for them this did not last long.

  12. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 12:02 pm

    I didn’t watch any of it, although, from what I have heard, it was quite good. After seeing htis, I might have to try and catch up on iView

    “Sweary Combet” is the real star and probably makes a lot of people think, “fuck this” why don’t we have this real talk in our politics!

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/greg-combets-fck-this-pretty-much-sums-up-the-rudd-and-gllar#.uuYnnkY83J

  13. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 12:06 pm

    for nils

  14. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 12:22 pm

    Yeah!!

    We spent $$$$BILLIONS$$$$ & $$$$BILLIONS$$$ to prevent unemployment from reaching 10.5%, Swan wanted to keep it to 8.5%.

    As I’m significantly more qualified in economics than Swan, I was entitled to point out that Australia was more isolated from the worst of the GFC, and I said so at the time.

    I also pointed out that Swan could moderate the stimulus because the economy wasn’t nose diving as he thought it would.

    I said this was because of the resilience of China’s economy.

    GUESS WHAT!! MY FORECAST RIGHT AND SWAN’S WAS WRONG!

  15. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 12:24 pm

    Combet performed well in the show.

    Bowen as leader and Combet as the attack dog – that would do some damage to the current government.

    Shorten would be relegated to the type of post that suits his ability – Assistant Minister for Aged Care (or something)

  16. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 10, 2015 12:32 pm

    Fact watch: Unemployment rate higher now that at any time during GFC

    Yes and it reached 5.8% under Rudd/Gillard which was higher than during the GFC. Please do not quote me Koukoulas. The man is evil.

    Team-cheerers won`t like it that episode-1 had many `voices` stating how well kevin07 did to get them into govt, sorry-day, duck the gfc, remained out of recession, had lowest debt of `teh-west`, and his worst decisions were `trusting` joolya and arbib.

    So the ABC is praising the ALP? What a surprise. And once again the low debt is not something the ALP can claim credit for. But they do it anyway.

  17. June 10, 2015 12:43 pm

    For the resident fuckin moron…

    Consumer confidence going backwards under Abbott Govt…

    http://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/consumer-confidence-going-backwards-as-federal-budget-shine-wears-off-20150610-ghkd1k.html

  18. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 12:49 pm

    I also pointed out that Swan could moderate the stimulus because the economy wasn’t nose diving as he thought it would.

    And you still claim this after all the times reality has been shown to you. 😯

    The oz was trying for all its might to tell us ….

    Read the data: it was a recession

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/read-the-data-it-was-a-recession/story-e6frg6zo-1225772446559

    I also pointed out that Swan could moderate the stimulus because the economy wasn’t nose diving as he thought it would.

    Really? This “waste” was still driving the economy years later as private investment stagnated and the rest of the world wallowed. Your (and the oppositions) position would have had us languishing in recession for years.

    THE Australian economy grew at a much slower pace in the first quarter than at the end of last year as the withdrawal of Kevin Rudd’s economic stimulus to combat the GFC, surprising weakness in business investment and sluggish growth in export volumes took some of the steam out of activity.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/economics/mining-sector-investment-to-speed-up-recovery-from-slowdown/story-e6frg926-1225874550046

    GUESS WHAT!! MY FORECAST RIGHT AND SWAN’S WAS WRONG!

    Your “forecast”, even these many years later, and with evidence that proves it, is still wrong, and is a clear example of why Swan got voted the “Worlds Greatest Treasurer” and yomm didn’t.

  19. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 12:51 pm

    For the resident fuckin moron…

    I think that is a harsh thing to say about yomm

    Accurate, but harsh 😉

  20. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 10, 2015 12:54 pm

    For the resident fuckin moron…

    And what is your point?? If the ALP was in power and the same thing happened would this change your vote??

    TB of Queensland as did most of the country voted for Keating to be PM when unemployment was at 11%.

  21. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 1:42 pm

    Cesar Melham has resigned as state government whip because he (apparently) agreed to a discounted wage in return for a fee.

    This practice was that the employer would get cheaper wages, the union would get the employer to pay the membership fees and the union would leave them alone. Everyone’s a winner except the employees!

    I wonder whether this practice was initiated by Melham, or whether he inherited the practice.

    Cesar isn’t that bright, and I suspect he didn’t invent it, possibly he got it from his predecessor – Bill Shorten.

    It will be interesting to see whether anyone comes up with examples that predate Cesar Melham.

  22. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 1:54 pm

    I wonder whether this practice was initiated by Melham, or whether he inherited the practice.

    I wonder whether this practice took place at all? What does “allegation” mean. Oh, I know, ask Julia 🙂

  23. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 2:02 pm

    I don’t think there is much doubt about the practice.

    I recall some of the turf war between AWU & CFMEU when Shorten was rescuing the AWU from insolvency. The CFMEU got annoyed that the AWU was doing deals at below general settlements to get members.

  24. June 10, 2015 2:04 pm

    boo`of melb”””I`m significantly more qualified in economics than Swan,”””

    #2319 .. you`re full of horse-shit

    +

    boo of melb”””I said this was because of the resilience of China`s economy.”””

    #china followed kevin07/swan`s lead, china too produced a `stimulus` package, based on their action/s and result/s

  25. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 2:06 pm

    Did the growth rate of the economy of China EVER drop below 6%?

  26. June 10, 2015 2:07 pm

    tr”””I didn`t watch any of it”””

    #don`t let that little fact get in the way of doing some solid mindless team-cheering:-)

  27. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 2:09 pm

    I recall ROFL

    Did the growth rate of the economy of China EVER drop below 6%?

    Just how many percentage points did it drop yomm?

    Because, if it was going gangbusters, why did mining have their own mini recession (which would have been much bigger had the rest of the country not supported them)?

  28. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 2:15 pm

    #don`t let that little fact get in the way of doing some solid mindless team-cheering

    Says the ColouredCartonCounter ROFL

  29. June 10, 2015 3:00 pm

    boo-of-melb”””Did the growth rate of the economy of China EVER drop”””

    #2319 .. l do believe it did .. hence, their stimulus package

  30. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 3:00 pm

    While China grows at 6+% they will continue to support Australia’s types of exports. Swan really didn’t understand this, he also didn’t seem to understand that China’s high growth rate was largely internally driven rather than trade driven.

    He presumed that the down turn in European and US economies would seriously reduce China’s growth.

    That’s why Swan got his forecast so hopelessly wrong, and because I’d been to some interesting economic forums, I got it right.

  31. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 3:23 pm

    While China grows at 6+%

    What was their growth rate pre GFC again yomm?

    I got it right.

    How do you explain away that data I linked to above then, the data that showed the stimulus money was all that was keeping Australia going in 2010? Or the oz arguing that “we really did have a recession”

    Shit, if they’d listened to the likes of you or the libs, we WOULD have had a recession, no ifs or buts there.

  32. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 3:32 pm

    Swan tipped 10.5% unemployment without stimulus, and 8.5% with it.

    Sensible people understood it was never going anywhere near this, and when it became clear to all that it wasn’t going anywhere near this Swan didn’t change policy. He just stayed on the debt path.

  33. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 3:38 pm

    Swan didn’t change policy.

    Exactly. And we stil missed a recession by a whisker, and the stimulus was still keeping the country afloat years later. Stimulus that both you and the libs would not have used. Stimulus that prevented a recession you seem to think we should have had.

  34. TB Queensland permalink
    June 10, 2015 3:50 pm

    He presumed that the down turn in European and US economies would seriously reduce China’s growth.

    It fkn did … 🙄

    Where do you think most of China’s cheap shit goes to? Melboourne.

    And if your qualifications are (did you say postgrad?) in economics … does that mean when it comes to IR my business degree and Dip.H&S …stumps your grad cert/dip in economics …? And I’m not real sure about your expertise in economics even with a postgrad whatever … based on what you sometimes write …

    I mean look at Wally and he’s a CPA* …

  35. TB Queensland permalink
    June 10, 2015 3:54 pm

    And did I mention my associate diploma? And throw in a certificate in cinematography and a few random statements of attainment … well … :0

  36. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 3:57 pm

    and he’s a CPA

    Not fair comparing the countries highest subsidised industry with actual workers is it TB 😉

  37. Lord Walrus permalink
    June 10, 2015 4:31 pm

    Did anyone notice my change of title.

    Mrs Walrus was so taken by the way Rudd and Julia completely rewrote History last night that she decided she would do the same so she appointed herself Queen of England descended from the House of Walrus of Palm Beach this morning and granted me a lifetime peerage.

    “”Splendid and a jolly good show your Majesty””………… I replied

  38. Lord Walrus permalink
    June 10, 2015 4:34 pm

    “And throw in a certificate in cinematography and a few random statements of attainment …””

    Dose that mean we are about to see the premiere of ……”Fucking Bullshit – The Movie”” ?

  39. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 4:43 pm

    “Associate diploma””

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  40. TB Queensland permalink
    June 10, 2015 4:51 pm

    “And throw in a certificate in cinematography and a few random statements of attainment …””

    Dose that mean we are about to see the premiere of ……”Fucking Bullshit – The Movie””

    Well, my first training vid brought in a sweet 10k Lard Wally … BS or not to BS that is your question …

    Did anyone notice my change of title.

    Not really … same old, same old …

    Shows just how fkn childish and churlish the whole royalty shite is … anyone can do …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    “Associate diploma””

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    And what do you know about Ass. Dips., giggles?

  41. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 5:04 pm

    And what do you know about Ass. Dips,/i>

    That they’re outta reach of the average ex drug cop cum politician

  42. TB Queensland permalink
    June 10, 2015 6:34 pm

    Well now we’ve finished comparing dicks … TR

    Associate dips no longer exist … when the AQF* (Australian Qualifications Framework was introduced in 1992 … only quals. under the AQF were recognised … (thus the concept of recognition of prior learning – RPL) …

    … the associate dip actually gave points to degrees in most unis as opposed to TAFE diplomas (the one I was doing was four years part time) …

    … however, after three years study, one of my tutors advised me I should be studying at degree level and I should apply … a bit difficult if all you have is a primary school education, “backed up” by a trade certificate. Still, UniSA took a punt on my work experience as a training consultant, line and staff manager and five years later I was one of 12 from an initial group of 60 (yep 60) who graduated in 1992 … I was 45 …

    Quals are one thing … but life and work experience are another … I know quite a few people who have a Grad. Dip. in OH&S and struggle with hearing protection …

    *For those who are curious, The AQF, determines what an adult learner must be capable of to earn a particular qualification … (eg a Diploma must include management competencies needed to run a small business as well as the diploma specialty) …

    The AQF recognised qualifications are as follows (you’ll notice there is an Associate Degree … guess what that was once called … )

    Universities can deliver all the qualifications …

    VET RTO’s (Vocational Education and Training – Recognised Training Organisations) can deliver from Cert 1 to Associate Degree but only after after assessment, audit and registration for each level and subject area applied for …

    PhD – Doctorate
    Masters Degree
    Graduate Diploma
    Graduate Certificate
    Bachelor Degree
    Associate Degree
    Advanced Diploma
    Diploma
    Certificate IV
    Certificate III
    Certificate II
    Certificate I

    (My business/consultancy was an RTO from 1992 to 2005 … )

  43. June 10, 2015 6:36 pm

    boo.of melb”””down turn in European and US economies would seriously reduce”””

    #2319 .. numb-nuts hasn`t noticed the drop in iron-ore price

  44. June 10, 2015 6:54 pm

    boo of.melb”””they will continue to support Australia`s types of exports”””

    #2319 .. Like our glorified dirt delivery service/s.?

    #twiggy forest bleats otherwise

  45. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 7:45 pm

    Swan, TB etc thought unemployment would reach 10.5% (I think TB nominated 12%)

    They didn’t really understand the structure of the economy, and that while ever China’s growth remained above 6%, AUstralia wouldn’t suffer the severity of the downturn that would occur in other countries.

    Some economists got it, and they were the ones that I listened to.

    TB didn’t.

  46. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 7:52 pm

    …and why does Abbott still have a mortgage?

    He’s been earning a good salary for a couple of decades, he’s in his late 50s, his wife works..

    He should have paid off the family home years ago.

    Hopeless in managing his finances it appears.

  47. Tom R permalink
    June 10, 2015 7:59 pm

    and that while ever China’s growth remained above 6%, AUstralia wouldn’t suffer the severity of the downturn that would occur in other countries.

    Why do you pick 6% yomm? Have you answered my previous question in regards to what the growth was before the GFC?

    How do you account for the fact that we missed a recession by a whisker, even with the massive stimulus, and that mining (you know, the one relying on China) entered a technical industry wide recession?

    And the fact that, years after the GFC, the stimulus was still the only driver within the economy?

  48. June 10, 2015 8:18 pm

    He should have paid off the family home years ago.
    Hopeless in managing his finances it appears.

    I knew it….!!

    ToM has been Yoda/Catching Up all this time along…!

    Playing us for fools. This Tom of so-called Melbourne has been conspiring….!!

  49. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 10, 2015 8:25 pm

    Agree with Tom of Melbourne i do.

  50. TB Queensland permalink
    June 10, 2015 8:32 pm

    Some economists got it, and they were the ones that I listened to.

    TB didn’t.

    These were the same economists who got hit with the financial tsunami they either missed or ignored … but certainly didn’t predict …

    I did predict up to 12% unemployment before the GFC – IF nothing was done – to keep the economy moving … the fatal mistake in 1929 was to pull money OUT of the economy … Rudd injected $$ … whether efficiently is debateable … it was certainly effective … and maintained the multiplier effect …

    The next crash … on our doorsteps … will come about because nothing was done to prevent banks and markets doing exactly the same business and shonky deals as they did before …

    … this time however there is nothing in the money pot … and I for one would hate to proved right!

    TB Queensland, on October 16, 2008 at 1:09 pm said:

    JMc

    The authorities (government regulators) dropped the ball. Incompetent (or paid off!)

    The banks ARE greedy – they’ve just “rejected” Rudd’s proposal to restrict CEO salaries to $5,000,000 YGBJ!

    I’ve gotta say I have been pounding these keys on Blogocracy and now Blogocrats on these very issue for so long – that now that its happened I feel very sad at what is going to happen to so many average families, particularly children (who are luckily more resilient than us old farts!).

    What’s frightening is that people really don’t know what is happening and the Robber Barons are still trying to make money out of misery …will still control our societies…will still manipulate our children’s thinking…will still influence to excess our governments at all three levels!

    Nothing has changed … (unfortunately Blogocrats goes no further back … and I can’t access Blogocracy at all … but JMc and I certainly argued that a big fall was coming months before it arrived …

    …and why does Abbott still have a mortgage?

    He’s been earning a good salary for a couple of decades, he’s in his late 50s, his wife works..

    He should have paid off the family home years ago.

    Hopeless in managing his finances it appears.

    Indeed. Almost word for word of a comment I made a few days ago, ToM … don’t tell me he has other secrets as well as his true nationality?

  51. TB Queensland permalink
    June 10, 2015 8:34 pm

    Humour from Kneel … a miracle!!!! :0

  52. TB Queensland permalink
    June 10, 2015 8:36 pm

    🙂 @ Kneel …

  53. June 10, 2015 8:41 pm

    I agree. Does this mean Neil is a real human after all……?

    🙂 @ Kneel …

  54. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 9:10 pm

    Maybe true, it is.

  55. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 10, 2015 9:39 pm

    These were the same economists who got hit with the financial tsunami they either missed or ignored … but certainly didn’t predict …

    I went to the trouble of getting myself informed by going to some economic forums. A couple economic consultantsI got to know did a lot of work on the mining sector, and researched elements of the demand from China, even in the event of a severe international downturn.

    I found their research persuasive, so passed this on in my commentary at the time.

    It turns out they were I was right, and TB and Swan were WRONG!

  56. June 10, 2015 10:38 pm

    boo.of`melb”””I went to the trouble of getting myself informed”””

    #guffaw .. since when

  57. June 10, 2015 10:42 pm

    boo`of.melb”””economic consultants I got to know did a lot of work on the mining sector”””

    #2319 .. boo and friends `predict` `soaring` market-sector likely to fall sooner or later .. pure genius

  58. June 10, 2015 11:24 pm

    boo.of-melb”””’It turns out they were I was right, and TB and Swan were WRONG!”””

    #your excessive crowing is unwarranted and un-earned `boo`of-melb, common sense tells me that china`s `internal` economy will from now on always be `stronger` compared to teh-west, simply because teh-west sent their job TO china, and yes boo, it is `simply-because`

    #and by the way, the `propping-up` the kevin07 regime did during the gfc, will not mean Aust has `fully-dodged` it, much more likely to have been delayed and possibly made softer, (the mining-slump we have just entered is the `gfc` effect heading our way) tho not if mr-rabbits zombies have their way.

    #our `internal` economy will go to shit faster and harder than needed too, due to being too dependent on `dealing-dirt`, not value adding, and trashing too many worker/consumers ability to earn and spend, the last, the job-trashing being a fetish you always support loudly from the tinfoil-cubicle, which will end-up proving you WRONG, and TB correct (along with armchair dunny and myself) so stop crowing, can you say cluck, cluck, cluck

  59. Team Some Economic Forums permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:46 am

    GFC? G19+1 = G20? Co-ordinated stimulii of 2% of GDPs? Ring any bells? Bueller? ToM? Joe? Anyone?

  60. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 7:49 am

    yomm, you’re just embarrassing yourself. More than usual.

    I note you refuse to answer or even acknowledge my points that mining collapsed in the immediate aftermath of the GFC, and that years later, the stimulus alone was pushing investment, but, I’ll keep putting them up, in the faint hope that something sinks in.

    And you don’t have to believe me, but you should at least consider the words of Ken Henry, the one who actually helped us to avoid a recession, not a bunch of angry old men comparing the size of their dips with each other

    In the first six months of 2009, in the immediate aftermath of the shock waves occasioned by the collapse of Lehman Brothers, the Australian mining industry shed 15.2 per cent of its employees. Had every industry in Australia behaved in the same way, our unemployment rate would have increased from 4.6 per cent to 19 per cent in six months. Mining investment collapsed; mining output collapsed. So the Australian mining industry had quite a deep recession while the Australian economy did not have a recession. Suggestions that the Australian mining industry saved the Australian economy from recession are curious, to say the least.

    https://onlythesangfroid.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/quotes-from-hansard-did-mining-save-australia-during-the-gfc-aupol/

  61. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 8:27 am

    Is yomm hockeys new adviser?

    After months of hinting the Abbott government isn’t doing enough to lift the economy, Glenn Stevens has come right out and said it.
    ……
    Borrowing to fund infrastructure that will earn a return makes sense even if it runs up deficits and debt. It is “not the same as borrowing to pay pensions or public servants”.
    ..
    The governor desperately needs the government to do its bit to boost the economy, rather than leaving the heavy lifting up to him.

    He came out and said so.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/reserve-bank-governor-glenn-stevens-more-infrastructure-spending-now-please-20150610-ghl1ri.html

    Infrastructure spending is deteriorating, yet we are borrowing more and more, as opposed to reducing it as was happening before the election. If it isn’t going into infrastructure, where is it going?

  62. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:02 am

    Mining investment collapsed; mining output collapsed.

    Is this correct? I do not think mining output collapsed. Furthermore commodity prices exploded after 2007.

    http://www.rba.gov.au/chart-pack/images/15-commodity-prices/15tl-rbaicp-small.gif?accessed=2015-06-11-08-59-30

  63. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:13 am

    Furthermore commodity prices exploded after 2007.

    Is the commodity price the same as investment or output nil?

    So, you are claiming Ken Henry is lying, too.

    Is there anyone who you disagree with who isn’t lying? OK, scrap that, I think I can guess the answer 😆

  64. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:35 am

    I am sure output exploded as well. It certainly did for coal.

  65. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:38 am

    picture from this link

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_Australia

    coal output did not collapse

  66. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:41 am

    “So, you are claiming Ken Henry is lying, too.”

    Well…………he was the policy maker so it’s in his interests to be selective.

    Plus he was the author of the most complicated unworkable mining tax ever devised.

  67. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:43 am

    “I am sure output exploded as well. It certainly did for coal.”

    I think from memory Coal came off its peaks in the run up to 2009 and it was Iron Ore and Gas prices that exploded out of the blocks .

    But I might be wrong………………..?

  68. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:45 am

    Why would he have authored a mining tax for an industry that in his words had collapsed ?

  69. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:45 am

    yep it looks like Ken Henry is lying. Iron ore production, people employed and production value all increased during the GFC.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_ore_mining_in_Western_Australia#Statistics

  70. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:48 am

    Tom R – what is there to debate, from your point of view?
    • Swan’s forecast was right?
    • His expectation that the structure of Australian economy was similar to other developed countries?
    • The pink batts stimulus was a huge success?

    My record is that I said –
    • The strength of China’s economy would save us from the worst of the downturn
    • Unemployment wouldn’t reach Swan’s 8.5% forecast
    • The continuing stimulus was unnecessary due to the resilience of the economy
    • The mounting stimulus related debt was just loading up the future generation with debt

    A few years on… and MY VIEWS HAVE BEEN PROVED CORRECT

  71. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:52 am

    I’ll also add that if the ALP put together a decent policy on negative gearing and limit it to new developments rather than existing housing, and limit the foreign investment in existing housing…I may vote for them.

  72. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:54 am

    So, what you are saying is, Ken Henry is a liar?

    Do you know of a term called “cherry picking”? Do you also note the sections where the little lines you have go back down?

    Interesting that certain individuals are running the “Labor didn’t save us” line, again. It looks almost like a concerted effort 😉

  73. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:58 am

    A few years on… and MY VIEWS HAVE BEEN PROVED CORRECT

    Except for the evidence I listed, and continue to list, that shows it wasn’t 😉

    But, apart from reality ……………

    And you inability to confront that evidence that disagrees with you. Perhaps you are in fact chriskenny. Just block me lol

  74. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:58 am

    So, what you are saying is, Ken Henry is a liar?

    Appears that Ken Henry is lying for coal and iron ore which are our two biggest exports.

    Production, employment and production value all increased during the GFC

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_Australia#/media/File:ABS-6291.0.55.003-LabourForceAustraliaDetailedQuarterly-EmployedPersonsByIndustrySubdivisionSex-EmployedFullTime-CoalMining-Persons-A2546085J.svg

  75. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 9:59 am

    Greg Combet from “The Killing Season”

    “If you’re gonna hand over 1600 bucks to an installer to go out to someone’s home to install installation for free for the householder, they’ve got to at least have the life experience and experience in the real economy to say, ‘Well, sh*t that’s open to abuse isn’t it?’”

    And what have we been saying on here for fucking ever ???????????

  76. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:01 am

    Like nil, our grubmint likes to just call anyone who presents them with awkward data as liars. Perhaps they should take yomms path, and go for the ignoring path?

    The author of the controversial economic modelling that discovered the Abbott government’s budget will hurt the poor hardest, while benefiting the better off, has defended himself against the government’s attacks last week.

    Ben Phillips, the principal research fellow at the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling (NATSEM), says it is “interesting” that no other economic modelling outfits or academic experts share “such concern” about his budget analysis as the government does.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/natsem-defends-budget-modelling-against-abbott-government-attacks-20150610-ghkv39.html

  77. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:02 am

    And what have we been saying on here for fucking ever ?

    That the abusers are the ones breaking the law?

  78. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:05 am

    “”That the abusers are the ones breaking the law?””

    No, Combet believes the people who rolled out the program were fucking naive.

    Read it again !

  79. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:08 am

    No, Combet believes the people who rolled out the program were fucking naive.

    I’m not disagreeing with that. In fact, I recall at the time many people were extremely frustrated at just how far the PS had been razed and how little talent was left there to implement any such policy.

    Does that change the fact that the people rorting are doing the wrong thing?

  80. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:12 am

    Do you know of a term called “cherry picking”? Do you also note the sections where the little lines you have go back down?

    Ken Henry said production collapsed during the GFC. Henry is lying. There was no collapse.

    Well at least we know which party Henry votes for. Like all liars he must therefore vote Labor.

  81. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:14 am

    “”………Ben Phillips, the principal research fellow at the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling (NATSEM), says it is “interesting” that no other economic modelling outfits or academic experts share “such concern” about his budget analysis as the government does….”

    That’s just and out and out LIE.

    Unless in his world women dont count

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Sloan

  82. June 11, 2015 10:21 am
  83. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:22 am

    Unless in his world women dont count

    It’s a not a gender thing, it’s the point that you are taking about a paid shill who is wrong more times than she speaks. Judith Sloane, expert ROFL

    Would love to see her sharing her “concerns” in this regard ROFL

    Ken Henry said production collapsed during the GFC. Henry is lying. There was no collapse.

    And you are basing this on a graph from wikipedia that showed a dip for the time in one section of the industry. Interesting

    The stoopid just got stoopider

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott has described wind farms as “visually awful” and boasted slashing the Renewable Energy Target will restrict growth in the industry.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/awful-and-noisy-tony-abbott-slams-wind-farms-during-interview-with-alan-jones-20150611-ghl7m0

  84. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:27 am

    Careful words from Bill Shitting………………

    “In my time working as a union official, I have always put the interests of my members first every time – every time,”………………”I can refer to my 20 years representing people, be it in the union or in Parliament, I have no truck for any form of corruption, nor will I tolerate it with anyone else, be they employers or union reps.”

    Does a Sweetheart Deal with a Company = Corruption……………………………..probably not

  85. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:32 am

    ……..probably not

    From my reading, weren’t the companies just paying the Union fees for Union members directly? Is this illegal, as I recall setting up similar in past.

    Or perhaps I am mis-reading what is being claimed.

  86. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:33 am

    “Judith Sloane, expert ROFL”

    So in your world female economic professors dont count but the Kouk does ?

    LOL

    Must be a “Male thing

  87. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:44 am

    “many people were extremely frustrated at just how far the PS had been razed and how little talent was left there to implement any such policy.

    Honestly, that is so stupid.

    If the government pushes lots and lots (ie $$$$$BILLIONS & $$$$BILLIONS) –
    *in front of contractors and
    *the contractors are actually required by the government program to recruit inexperienced workers and
    *they are paid per installation

    …then it is no surprise to sensible people that poor safety will result. The people that set up this program have to accept their significant share of the blame for the outcomes.

  88. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:45 am

    …and THE FACT IS THAT MY ECONOMIC COMMENTARY WAS MORE ACCURATE THAN SWAN’S

  89. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:45 am

    Must be a “Male thing

    Reading isn’t your thing is it.

    It’s a not a gender thing

    Why do you always try to bring sex into it?

    And haven’t seen her “concerns” yet. Of course, your disagreement over the NATSEM is that ONE paid shill has “concerns”, which makes it all wrong. Really, THAT is your argument 😯

  90. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:48 am

    And what have we been saying on here for fucking ever ???????????

    I agreed at the time with that too … based on my workplace experience …

    And Peter Garret was never the one to lead the charge … why o why … but … OH&S is a state responsibility … and of course they weren’t up to speed either …

    The concept was fine … the application was shite!

    A RC concluded that … its old news …

    I see everyone is trying to avoid the PRESENT crisis tho’ …

  91. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:56 am

    So in your world female economic professors dont count but the Kouk does ?

    LOL

    Must be a “Male thing

    At it again, Wally, you made it into a gender issue … not TR … putting words into other people’s comments …

  92. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:03 am

    So Glenn Stevens says there is a house price problem in Sydney AND that the Abbott government should BORROW more to build infrastructure that will bring a return when the economy does improve ….

    And then you’ve got this heap of very expensive shit …

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/f-35-stealth-fighter-reaches-key-deadline-with-ongoing-doubts-over-its-capabilities/story-fnpjxnlk-1227392452031

  93. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:03 am

    “Really, THAT is your argument”

    No that”s just the start of it.

    He first up lied over whether anyone disagreed with him except the government.

    Whether his figures stack up are a whole new thing.

  94. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:05 am

    “So Glenn Stevens says there is a house price problem in Sydney………”

    Pity that’s not what he said.

    He said parts of Sydney.

    But you dont give a fuck about Sydney house prices anyway…………or so you said

  95. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:06 am

    …and THE FACT IS THAT MY ECONOMIC COMMENTARY WAS MORE ACCURATE THAN SWAN’S

    yomms going to go with ignoring I see

    He first up lied over whether anyone disagreed with him except the government.

    well, we are currently taking your word for that, even though I’ve asked you a couple of times for a reference

  96. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:08 am

    As someone in the comments said, maybe putin 😉

  97. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:10 am

    The markets are travelling like a mad woman’s shite and every other “investment” is returning SFA …

    ToM you may also recall I said that the can was still being kicked down the road and that the GFC would return with bigger balls … all Rudd’s government was soften the blow in 2008 … markets have a seven and eleven year cycle … 2008 + 7 =

    Because the regulators are in the pocket of businesses “too big to fail” … what do they think will happen when everyone has “failed” because of their greed …

    The Western world is crumbling … like all “empires” greed and corruption eventually kills them off …

    The Chinese leadership must be patting each other on the back … the dragon will awaken slowly and in time … is that time now?

    Will we see a major clash soon to mark the beginning of the end of the world as we know it?

  98. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:20 am

    Wally if you want to be picky … Pity that’s not what he said.

    by Matthew Cranston and Jacob Greber

    Reserve Bank of Australia governor Glenn Stevens has described parts of Sydney’s property market as “crazy” but said its excesses are not reflective of the entire country.

    His comments add fuel to a national debate about whether rising house prices are a good thing or not with Treasurer Joe Hockey and Prime Minister Tony Abbott expressing support for rising prices while Treasury secretary John Fraser and Opposition Leader Bill Shorten have warned of dangers.

    “What is happening in housing in Sydney I find acutely concerning for a host of reasons many of which are not to do with monetary policy,” Mr Stevens told an audience in Brisbane on Wednesday. “I think it is a social problem.”

    Mr Stevens said the Reserve Bank’s interest rate settings were for the whole of the nation and that problems involving investors borrowing too much in certain areas meant regulators should focus on lending standards.

    http://www.afr.com/news/economy/monetary-policy/rbas-glenn-stevens-says-crazy-sydney-property-market-is-acutely-concerning-20150610-ghkpek

    Wally, if you provided links like the rest of us you might change your BS … the AUTHORS used the term “parts of Sydney” not Stevens …

    “What is happening in housing in Sydney I find acutely concerning …”

    This is also very interesting … “I think it is a social problem.” … considering his role …

  99. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:23 am

    And you are basing this on a graph from wikipedia that showed a dip for the time in one section of the industry. Interesting

    Give it a miss. Your imagined dip is not a collapse. A collapse would be a halving of production. The only graph which showed a dip was in coal employment. Coal production and iron ore production EXPLODED under Rudd as did commodity prices.

    Ken Henry is lying. Gee i wonder which party he votes for?

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/gdp-from-mining

  100. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:40 am

    So from that link nil, it is sharp until 2007, almost flat until 2010, after which is rises again. This alone would indicate a sharp drop, but add to that the fact that GDP dropped massively over this period, and a “share” of GDP looks even weaker than before.

    And just makes Ken Henry’s comments look more and more reasonable

  101. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:42 am

    I should have clarified at the start that the chart nils was linking to is “Australia GDP From Mining”.

  102. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:46 am

    So Tom R, Swan (and you) got it wrong and I got it right on economics.

    That’s the bottom line.

  103. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:56 am

    “”……even though I’ve asked you a couple of times for a reference”

    “”Professor Judith Sloan, one of Australia’s best-known economists, is a leading figure in academic and business circles and has extensive experience in both the …”” – ABC News

    https://www.google.com.au/#q=related:www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/judith-sloan+NATSEM+Judith+Sloan

    And

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/calm_down_these_budget_changes_are_not_brutal/

  104. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:56 am

    That’s the bottom line.

    Except for the reality, as I have laboriously striven to point out to you yomm

    But, you stay in your own virtual world of dip sizes and redhead hating if it’s what floats ya boat 😉

  105. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 11:59 am

    And just makes Ken Henry’s comments look more and more reasonable

    You are dishonest. I cannot understand how you can be so dishonest.

    There was no collapse in mining production or prices. In fact there was an explosion.

    Drop or no drop every figure in that graph was higher than in 2007.

  106. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:00 pm

    “”Wally, if you provided links like the rest of us you might change your BS “”

    “”The Western world is crumbling … like all “empires” greed and corruption eventually kills them off … “”

    Links please

    Or is that just more Bullshit from your Crystal Ball.

    The same one that’s had me laughing for almost a decade.

    What happened to that property price tumble or the 30% unemployment rate you and your idiot mate McPhilbin were forecasting ?

  107. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:03 pm

    Second link is wrong one…………..my bad

    Trying to puncture Paywall now

  108. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:08 pm

    Not seeing anything in any of them about Sloane commenting on NATSEM wally. You got a comment from her I can google?

  109. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:15 pm

    Drop or no drop every figure in that graph was higher than in 2007.

    It’s a percentage of GDP nil, and it plateaued at a time when GDP crashed, which would indicate …………..

    Trying to puncture Paywall now

    cheers wally. From what I have read, she is arguing that it is not so bad, because it could have been worst. I haven’t seen anything anywhere where she actually disputes what NATSEM is saying.

    Of topic (but prob back onto the original), it looks like the smear on Shorten is hotting up.

  110. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:19 pm

    It’s a percentage of GDP nil, and it plateaued at a time when GDP crashed, which would indicate ………….

    Wow, now a plateau is a crash.

    You are as dishonest as Ken Henry.

    At least we all know which party the wombat whisperer votes for.

  111. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:21 pm

    “”I haven’t seen anything anywhere where she actually disputes what NATSEM is saying.””

    No….no…………like I said my bad. That”s last years stuff.

    I originally got in via Judith Sloan NATSEM for this years Budget but now “” the drawbridge”” is up.

    Like I said my bad

  112. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:24 pm

    “Of topic (but prob back onto the original), it looks like the smear on Shorten is hotting up.””

    Well if he resigns I dont like Abbott’s chances against Albanese.

    But I think even he has a very good chance against a discredited Shorten

  113. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:25 pm

    No probs wally. Although, it’s just a matter of time imo until she does start bagging it. I did see on a catallaxy thread she was bagging it previously.

  114. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:28 pm

    Yeah, my reality is that Swan based his entire stimulus package on the basis of 10.5% unemployment, keep it to 8.5%.

    I said that was never going to be that serious in Australia, but Tom R continues to argue that Swan was right!

    The problem for the ALP (and the country) is that we are entering more troubled economic times, and they may take government during a serious dip. Politically and economically they will be unable to introduce strong stimulus, because they screwed it up last time.

    Just watch the ALP balk at stimulus in 18 to 24 months when we are likely to be in a little strife.

  115. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:35 pm

    “yomm, you’re just embarrassing yourself. More than usual.”

    Pretty funny coming from the resident ALP arse-licker. You might as well ask Ken Henry. Both will give you the ALP line on any issue.

  116. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:36 pm

    I said that was never going to be that serious in Australia, but Tom R continues to argue that Swan was right!

    Even though with a massive pump to the economy we almost went into recession, and the stimulus was the only thing keeping it going years later.

    Points you REFUSE to address.

    Yea, right yomm lol

  117. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:38 pm

    “”The Western world is crumbling … like all “empires” greed and corruption eventually kills them off … “”

    Links please

    You are fkn jokin’ … Greek, Roman, Ottoman, British etc etc … name yer poison …

  118. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:40 pm

    Or ask, sb …

    Missed yer … 😉

  119. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:40 pm

    Both will give you the ALP line on any issue.

    Backed up with the relevant data I’d hasten to add 😉

  120. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:47 pm

    “Well if he resigns I dont like Abbott’s chances against Albanese.

    But I think even he has a very good chance against a discredited Shorten”

    The ALP is praying Little Billy Two Knives resigns. He is no doubt worried that some Unionland apparatchik will open the vault of dirty little secrets and show him an old photo which will see him resign quietly. If Albo performs they won’t need to bring out the Vietnamese brothel photos. Then again Albo could stuff up and history would repeat, this time with Shorten/Albo/Shorten.

  121. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:48 pm

    Growth of -Q1 0.01%, Q2 -0.01% Q3 +0.2%, Q4 +0.3% = Recession

    Change the order = No Recession

    Swan never predicated the stimulus “to avoid recession” that’s just the spin you’ve come up with more recently.

  122. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:51 pm

    I’ve been a bit busy of late. In the consulting game when the fish are flowing you have to reel them in. Besides, I’ve been distressed, TB. Tom R said something the other day that I thought made sense. Naturally I took myself off to the psychiatrist. Anyway, now I’m cured and I can see straight through his crass propaganda.

  123. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 12:53 pm

    “If Albo performs they won’t need to bring out the Vietnamese brothel photos.”

    LOL

    I have a very attractive single female who was subjected to a lot of unwanted attention at a certain Sydney Lord Mayor’s Annual New Years Eve Fireworks Party by a certain ALP high flyer

  124. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 1:11 pm

    If Albo performs they won’t need to bring out the Vietnamese brothel photos

    I heard about that. the man is a fool even if he was only going for a massage..

  125. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 11, 2015 1:19 pm

    “Greek, Roman, Ottoman, British etc etc … name yer poison”

    There are lots of theories, none of them convincing. Moral decline, military technology, demography, plague, climate change – take your pick.

    Maybe the Greeks went down for want of a plan of succession – Alexander, when asked on his deathbed to whom would he leave his kingdom, allegedly answered “to the strongest”. This resulted in war among his generals and the division of his empire.

    Maybe the real question is why some of them last so long? The Byzantines were around for a thousand years. After resisting Islamic invaders for 700 years they went down when Mehmet II had the good sense to employ the latest military technology, namely a canon large enough to penetrate the walls of Constantinople.

    As often happened in Islamic history the openness of the Ottomans to outside ideas and the cultivation of the arts gave way religious puritanism and a turning away from foreign innovation. Even though they had early success with foreign military technology, by the end they had fallen behind the West. One of the last acts of the Ottomans was the religious genocide of Christians, mainly Armenians. The Turks enjoyed a resurgence under Ataturk who led a movement for secular reform. Unfortunately the religious kooks are back with Erdogan, but maybe not permanently following the recent election.

    Here, for your amusement, is Gibbon’s take on the fall of the Roman Empire:

    “As the happiness of a future life is the great object of religion, we may hear without surprise or scandal that the introduction, or at least the abuse of Christianity, had some influence on the decline and fall of the Roman empire. The clergy successfully preached the doctrines of patience and pusillanimity; the active virtues of society were discouraged; and the last remains of military spirit were buried in the cloister: a large portion of public and private wealth was consecrated to the specious demands of charity and devotion; and the soldiers’ pay was lavished on the useless multitudes of both sexes who could only plead the merits of abstinence and chastity. …… The sacred indolence of the monks was devoutly embraced by a servile and effeminate age; but if superstition had not afforded a decent retreat, the same vices would have tempted the unworthy Romans to desert, from baser motives, the standard of the republic.”

  126. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 1:21 pm

    Anyway, now I’m cured and I can see straight through his crass propaganda.

    But as yet still unable to confront it 😉

    Swan never predicated the stimulus “to avoid recession”

    Unlike yomm, who’s just getting lost in aeriefaerie world

  127. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 1:22 pm

    Vietnamese brothel photos

    Like I said, the smears are just ramping up, which to me indicates he’s doing his job just fine 😉

  128. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 1:28 pm

    Like I said, the smears are just ramping up, which to me indicates he’s doing his job just fine

    Perhaps it is time you did a google search.

  129. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 1:36 pm

    Perhaps it is time you did a google search.

    If you are going to run a smear, at least have the common decency to provide the smear. Or haven’t you had time to get the site up yet 😉

  130. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 1:49 pm

    Dr Karl getting his mojo back

  131. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 2:05 pm

    Dr Karl getting his mojo back

    Dr Karl telling lies again

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/awful-and-noisy-tony-abbott-slams-wind-farms-during-interview-with-alan-jones-20150611-ghl7m0

    Mr Abbott made the remarks after the conservative broadcaster Alan Jones asked why the government had agreed to subsidise wind farms when residents living near them claim to suffer health problems.

    It was the residents who made the claim.

  132. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 2:12 pm

    In the consulting game when the fish are flowing you have to reel them in.

    I hear ya … 😉

    Here, for your amusement, is Gibbon’s take on the fall of the Roman Empire:

    LOL! And what a take …

  133. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 2:19 pm

    read the whole article nil

    Mr Abbott replied the location of wind farms was primarily a state government issue but said he agreed they could cause health problems.

  134. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 3:16 pm

    Abbott must have a medical degree … ! 😮

    ‘Cause he certainly doesn’t have an economics degree … oh wait! Or a law degree … oh wait! … or philosophy … oh wait! or politics … oh wait!

    Obviously spent all his years in the cloistered halls of church, universities and parliament … no wonder the silly sod has no idea how to govern …

  135. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 3:26 pm

    read the whole article nil

    It was the people living next to these wind turbines who made the claim. I would believe the residents before i would believe Dr Karl.

  136. Tom R permalink
    June 11, 2015 3:45 pm

    Mr Abbott replied the location of wind farms was primarily a state government issue but said he agreed they could cause health problems.

  137. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 11, 2015 3:53 pm

    Actually what Abbott said was this

    “Well Alan look, I do take your point about the potential health impact of these things

    It was the residents who claimed their health was at risk. I would believe them before i would believe Dr Karl.

  138. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 3:59 pm

    “”Dr Karl getting his mojo back..””

    Not really………………………but hey what the fuck would a whole lot of Ear Experts know about Hearing Sounds and Not Hearing Sounds

    http://oto2.wustl.edu/cochlea/wind.html

  139. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 4:44 pm

    I just found Jockey’s financial advisor … BooHoo Ma …

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/billionaire-jack-ma-says-life-is-tough/story-fn5tas5k-1227393259394

    GMAFB … as Jim Rohn used to say …

    “If you don’t like you’re house or you don’t like you’re job … move! You’re not a tree.”

    “I wish I was poor again … being a billionaire is so hard …”

    Hilfknlarious!

  140. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 4:51 pm

    Updated 4/2/2014. To keep this as readable as possible I have not included reference citations. They are typically available in our publications.

    Any peer reviews?

    I’m interested having travelled through Holland and also seen (not heard) some of the Danish windfarms …

    Not including references is pretty poor form for a PhD … even my high school g/kids have to … its a pain but not hard …

  141. Walrus permalink
    June 11, 2015 5:07 pm

    “Not including references is pretty poor form for a PhD”

    Not really…….most of it is in the very first article he links to down the bottom also done by him and a colleague.

    My Link is to a quick summary

    Ask yourself a question………………………………..Would you want one erected within 1 or 2 or 3 kms of your place if you lived in a rural area ?

  142. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 6:08 pm

    Being a “fan” of The Art of War … I keep my enemies close …

    All the more reason to boot this bunch of Robber Barons as far as we can … they just don’t get it!

    Super earnings $75,000 pa and over … taxed at 15% FMD I wish!

    Not NEGATIVE GEARING!

    Not a CARBON PRICE … I see the tories still confuse carbon tax and carbon price – apparently $66 a tonne is “good” … paid for by taxpayers??????????????? Not emitters?

    TB

    This morning, on ABC Radio, Labor’s alternate Treasurer, Chris Bowen, confirmed Labor are now looking to make changes to Capital Gains Tax.

    Mr Bowen said:
    “There is a very close interaction here between negative gearing and capital gains tax…We are not doing what the Government is doing which is simply refusing to look at these matters.”

    Chris Bowen, Radio National Breakfast, 11th June 2015

    Labor had previously confirmed they are also looking at changes to negative gearing:

    ‘‘on negative gearing I would not rule out going to the election with changes.”
    Chris Bowen, ABC 7.30 Report, 30th March 2015

    In addition, Labor have made clear they will make changes to superannuation:

    “Labor will:

    • Ensure earnings of more than $75,000 during the retirement phase are taxed at a concessional rate of 15 per cent instead of being tax free; and
    • Lower the threshold for the 15 per cent High Income Superannuation Charge from $300,000 to $250,000 … ”

    Bill Shorten and Chris Bowen, media release, 22nd April 2015

    And, under Labor, a Carbon Tax will also be back:

    “Question: So to be clear on that, you will campaign at the next election to introduce a carbon price by way of an emissions trading scheme?

    Shorten: Yes.”

    Bill Shorten, ABC AM, 17th July 2014

    Labor’s new taxes should come as no surprise. Under Bill Shorten, Labor have wasted the first two years of Opposition. It has not changed. It remains addicted to big spending, big debt and new taxes.

    Earlier this year Chris Bowen delivered this ominous warning:

    “I’m saying, very clearly as alternative Treasurer, that revenue and spending measures need to be on the table.”
    Chris Bowen, The Australian, 20th January 2015

    The contrast between the Coalition’s strong Economic Plan, which backs hard working Australians, and Labor, with its new new taxes, is clear.

    As the Prime Minister recently said:

    “Labor is breaking cover – showing their true colours. What the Labor Party wants to do is bring back the Carbon Tax, start up a super tax, put the people smugglers back in business and if they get a chance they will whack a mining tax back on as well. So, there’s really a very clear contrast between the Coalition and Labor. We’re for jobs – they’re for taxes. We’re for opportunity – they’re for taxes. We’re for giving incentives – they’re for more taxes.”
    Tony Abbott, 22nd May 2015

    Regards

    Brian Loughnane
    Federal Director
    Liberal Party of Australia

    A contrast alright … working for the Robber Barons (or wannabes) … or working for Australians …

    What a bunch of dumbfucks!

  143. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 6:13 pm

    Ask yourself a question………………………………..Would you want one erected within 1 or 2 or 3 kms of your place if you lived in a rural area ?

    I guess comprehension has never been your strong point …

    I’m interested having travelled through Holland and also seen (not heard) some of the Danish wind-farms …

    I do believe that offshore wind-farms are a viable alternative energy … situated on good farmland is stupid!

  144. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 7:09 pm

    How’s this … I’ve been asked to sing at a Liberal Party Branch bash!

  145. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 11, 2015 7:43 pm

    They’ve gone downmarket.

  146. June 11, 2015 7:56 pm

    2319 .. boo of melbourne is still practicing `eleventy-nomics` l see

    #and.selective.history

  147. June 11, 2015 8:05 pm

    r””’Death Cult laundry detergent”””#ROFL

    +

    blubbers”””’Greg Combet from `The Killing Season` .. If you`re gonna hand over 1600 bucks”””

    #yes combet did say that,

    #combet also admitted `disliking/distrusting/(BIAS) of kevin07

    #combet also knows full-well, biz-licencing and construction-regs are the responsibility of the state/s, and was somewhat dis-honest (by-omission) of not including that little fact, or my abc was dis-honest if they `cut` it during editing #teabag.talk

  148. June 11, 2015 8:14 pm

    ” I’ve been asked to sing at a Liberal Party Branch bash!”

    The mind boggles.. what would you sing…?

    I who have nothing

    The only way is up

    Tragedy

    All by myself

    ??

  149. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 11, 2015 8:20 pm

    TB entertaining at a Lib function…

  150. June 11, 2015 8:21 pm

    boo`of-melb””’the contractors are actually required by the government program to recruit inexperienced workers”””

    #and perhaps you can back-up those claims against kevin07 with `actual` evidence, like a `hansard` from ANY state/s, or premier office, or ohs-dept, or biz-licensing-dept, you know, that `actually` proves the kevin07 regime `actually` arm-twisted `any` of the state/s premier/s to drop, cancel, retract, not-police their `own` fcuking laws.

    #no, thought not #tinfoil.cubicle #2319

  151. June 11, 2015 9:21 pm

    my abc””””The Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corruption has heard evidence that building firm Winslow Constructors paid union fees for its entire workforce, at a time

    when Mr Shorten led the Australian Workers Union.”””’

    my abc””””’The commission was shown a 2005 invoice from the union to the company for $38,228.68 for union dues.””””

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-11/bill-shorten-defends-winslow-constructors-union-payment-deal/6538744

    (later)

    my abc”””When asked, Mr Shorten did not explain why the arrangement was made,”””””

    #l saw blib tap=dancing and avoiding this on telly, way to go caucus, backing this twit blib will probably ensure we all get stuck with mr-rabbit.

    #fcuking blib is looking more like an insurance policy for mr-rabbit`s re-election every day. FMD.

  152. TB Queensland permalink
    June 11, 2015 10:32 pm

    The mind boggles.. what would you sing…?

    Indeed! The River is Wide … The Night Has a Thousand Eyes … Do You Want To Know A Secret … Everything I Own … Fool If You Think Its Over … For The Good Times … My Way … or something less subtle – Ladies and Gents here’s one for Tony – Daydream Believer …

    I did a bit of an Abbott when he asked me … ummm, arrr, err … and then he convinced me $500! So I said OK … was I bribed? 🙂

    Cash I said … 😉

    And no political jokes! A promise I made to my friend (he’s the Treasurer of the Branch … and knows my politics – he should after 25 years!)

  153. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 6:42 am

    Well, another smear campaign over nothing. Of course, this won’t stop the “questions to answer” being asked, repeatedly, even though, as Shorten pointed out, there is a Royal Commission in progress.

    LINDSAY PARTRIDGE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BRICKWORKS: Yes, that is correct. It was fairly normal practice in the-from 70s on for companies to collect on behalf of their employees, the union dues then pass them on to the union on a monthly basis.

    It was just a standard procedure in manufacturing right across Australia.

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4253493.htm

    But, the big question to me is, how did fairfax get their hands on documents submitted to this witch hunt beat up?

    I guess you’ll have to get that site up and running after all nil 😉

  154. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 6:44 am

    Meanwhile, the tewwa level is cranked up to eleventy, while yabot and his cronies do all they can to help out the tewwas

    A terrorism expert has warned that Prime Minister Tony Abbott is feeding Islamic State’s (IS) own propaganda machine by calling it a “death cult”.

    “You’ve bought in to their narrative.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-11/terrorism-expert-says-death-cult-is-a-misnomer/6539862

    But this was the most revealing

    “You can’t negotiate with an entity like this, you can only fight it.”

    hmm, sounds a lot like our current grubmint.

  155. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 7:29 am

    AAUUUGGGHH! The Horror!

  156. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 8:21 am

    I see the media is covering their arse over the budget, and sheeting home the blame to Labor. Business as usual.

    It’s going to lead to serious losses of disposable income for low and middle income families, with a single-parent family with two children (with an annual income of $55,000) set to lose a huge $20,648 by the end of 2018/19.

    That’s what NATSEM found.

    So why aren’t we still discussing these financial losses? Because the Coalition worked hard to discredit the modelling that exposed them, misleading Australians about its authenticity.

    But Labor is partly to blame, too. It tried to be too cute with its media strategy when releasing the modelling and that strategy backfired.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/how-the-abbott-government-stopped-us-talking-about-natsems-modelling-of-their-budget-20150611-ghjm1u

    Sorry but it didn’t “backfire” without a lot of help. In fact, had you lot applied a modicum of journalistic integrity, it would have played well. Not only were the libs lying in Parliament over the modelling, you lot were running cover for them with your ‘he said, she said” shit. You should have called them out for lying, instead of pretending it is all part of some greater ‘debate’.

    It is also not too late to highlight the fact that this budget IS as bad as the last, But instead, you wring your hands and bemoan “woe is us”, while still ignoring the elephant in the room.

    the Coalition objected – quite rightly – that Labor ought to release the entire modelling immediately if it wanted people to take it seriously.

    No, the grubmint claimed Labor wrote it you tool, in Parliament. Now THAT is a story. But no, wring your little pencils and cry about how Labor screwed you’se all over, even though the story was there in front of you. Lets forget the fact that the actual budget doesn’t even have it’s modelling. Again, THERE’S a story.

    If you’d turned your TV off at that moment the criticism may have stayed with you.</i

    Well, you churnos turned our 'teles' off, as most articles were running the 'second round effect' line as if it varied some sort of weight. Now you cry it didn't!

    But the damage was done. Talk of NATSEM modelling tapered off considerably from Thursday. Voters felt confused about its authenticity, and Labor had lost enthusiasm for the fight.

    The damage doesn’t have to stay done. Instead of listing your failures as Labors, write articles that highlight the accuracy of NATSEM ffs. Yes, voters are confused, but that is more thanks to you then the libs. And this “Labor had lost enthusiasm for the fight.” is only in the fact that you have followed mordors eyes everywhere but where it wants to be, ON THE BUDGET.

    Labor ministers continue to hold doorstops and speak to journalists about the budget (or try to), but you all want to talk about witch hunts, tewwa and wind mills

    Stop titling in the wrong direction, then maybe us poor voters won’t be so ‘confused’

  157. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 12, 2015 8:42 am

    I heard Gillian Triggs with Fran Kelly this morning. She didn’t persuade me.

    Particularly the bit where she said she postponed the inquiry into children in detention because of the election.

  158. June 12, 2015 8:47 am

    Good Morning Teabags, on my abc this morning, we get some good news for the price sensitive grocery shopper. The german aldi-like discount supermarket chain `LIDL` is definitely opening in Aust, they have just lodged a shit-load of `trademark` applications?-patents?, which lidl wouldn`t be doing if they hadn`t decided to come to Aust. Looks like the woolies-coles monsters are going to get more of a kicking. #yay:-)

  159. June 12, 2015 9:16 am

    lf this is true, team-cheerer,

    ””””LINDSAY PARTRIDGE: No, it was the employees’ wages. It was just facilitating the payment of the union dues to just make it easier.”””’

    #then blib is just a fcuking goose for simply not saying that, instead, blib has let mr-poodle cock his leg all over him.

    +

    on my abc this morning, they played a clip of blib saying he wants to have aboriginals acknowledged in the constitution, fair enough l thought, blib seems to be doing okay here, but could blib leave it at that. Fcuk-No. Silly fcuking blib then had to start blathering-on about becoming a `republic`, that`s right l thought, in era of higher popularity of the royals, particularly the young royals, and don`t forget the tassie princess too, stupid fcuking blib then want to go `republic`.

    #When the fcuk will blib learn it IS a popularity contest. #shh-blib

  160. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 12, 2015 9:20 am

    I guess you’ll have to get that site up and running after all nil

    I would comment if i knew what you were taking about. But it looks like you are wrong again. I have not watch The Killing Season but it looks like the ABC has managed to spin the story into Labor saved Australia from the GFC. Here is a different opinion.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-11/barnes-the-killing-season-and-the-gfc-drama-not-history/6537256

    Yet is the programme’s version of GFC history reliable? Gillard and Combet might have had political doubts but didn’t question the “Labor fixed the GFC” claim. No dissenting economic or partisan voices were presented…………….While politics is all about claiming credit and denying it to others, it’s hard to accept the Rudd-Henry GFC thesis at face value. It may be considered heretical to question received political wisdom on the GFC as reinforced by The Killing Season,and while later episodes may modify that story, the fundamental fact remains that, despite the crescendo of internal shocks in 2008 and 2009, the Australian economy was in good shape when Labor took office at the end of 2007.

    Rudd, Gillard and Swan inherited from Howard and Costello zero net government debt, and had the unheard-of luxury of a budget surplus of $12 billion that was projected to rise to $60 billion over four years. We were riding the wave of a commodity price and export boom that gave the Labor government and its advisers supreme confidence in their own fiscal position, and the Rudd government’s ability to guarantee the big four Australian banks while global financial markets teetered

  161. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 9:32 am

    She didn’t persuade me.

    much surprisement to be had 😉

    I would comment if i knew what you were taking about.

    It’s rarely stopped you in the past. Your “smear part IV’ site nils, which you alluded to yesterday.

    #then blib is just a fcuking goose for simply not saying that

    Noone has asked him that, actually. All he has stated, is he has done nothing wrong, and got the workers a better deal than they would have. Everything else is the fevered imaginations of dopey shits being drip fed, and not smart enough to ask the real questions.

    Of course, as we have seen, he could do two hour long sessions with these tools and still he’ll have “questions to answer”. Fucking numbnuts the lot of ’em.

  162. June 12, 2015 9:41 am

    Well team-cheerer, l just saw another clip on my abc, l didn`t see who the `host` was, but it had mr-poodle and albo seated (in-studio) and albo was having to wear mr-poodle`s leg cocking too.

    #What it does come down to is, like come-back-kim(beazley) blib doesn`t have the ticker, doesn`t know when and how to hammer the teabags, and when to keep his stupid yap shut. #caucus.was.such.a.fcuking.great.help

  163. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 10:25 am

    and albo was having to wear mr-poodle`s leg cocking too.

    4context

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/06/09/kevin-or-julia-who-is-telling-the-troof/#comment-106823

    The media will ALWAYS run the libs line, regardless of it’s accuracy or level of stoopid

  164. TB Queensland permalink
    June 12, 2015 10:47 am

    LINDSAY PARTRIDGE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BRICKWORKS: Yes, that is correct. It was fairly normal practice in the-from 70s on for companies to collect on behalf of their employees, the union dues then pass them on to the union on a monthly basis.

    It was just a standard procedure in manufacturing right across Australia.

    I can vouch for that … I worked for two different organisations (late 70’s early 80’s) who paid union fees for members. One company, with 500+ employees, organised buses to take members of the Ironworkers Union into Brisbane for a critical meeting and vote … (at the time I worked in the Personnel Dept. as the WH&S Officer).

  165. June 12, 2015 11:12 am

    “She didn’t persuade me.”

    Yes, I found her less than convincing, too.

    Fran Kelly: Why did you delay this enquiry [The Forgotten Children] until it was the Coalition in power, when it is undeniable, on the basis of the statistics, that there were more children in detention under the Labor government than there were under the Abbott government?

    Gillian Triggs: Well I did not delay the report. Um, during two thousand and, um, we’d had an enquiry into wrist x-rays in 2012. In 2013 I did numerous, um, visits to detention centres raising these questions, and I provided a report in, I think, October that year. Um, but it was quite clear to me that I could not hold an enquiry, ah, at the time of the election.

    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/gillian-triggs/6540588

  166. June 12, 2015 11:15 am

    Well team-cheerer `4context` this govt has been the most dis-honest, useless pile of damaging crap the planet has ever seen. An even half-competent opposition would be running around with flame-throwers and blow-torches leaving nothing but scorched and singed teabags as far as the eye can see, not giving them a free pass.

    #Yes, teabag-media is totally useless, (which usually l`m the first to point out) but blib and his rabble know this, or should have. All blib and his rabble have been showing the public is that one-term in the wilderness is not long enough, they haven`t got their act together, and may need a second-term in the wilderness so they can re-group.

  167. June 12, 2015 11:23 am
  168. June 12, 2015 11:26 am

    Triggs goes on: ” And after the election, not of course knowing which government was going to win that election, I, we then found that, ah, the children were being detained for unprecedented amounts of time. So it’s not the fact of detention of children that’s the problem, because, of course, the government has a sovereign right to hold children and their families when they arrive in these extraordinary circumstances in, ah, off the waters of Christmas Island. Of course we must hold them for, ah, security and health checks. But what was of concern to me at the Commission was that as the government moved into its new role, within those months, very few children were being released, and this is unprecedented, and they were also being held for unprecedented periods of time. And that’s when the enquiry kicked in, although we had talked about it for some months, ah, beforehand. But there was certainly no delay. It was an orderly process and, ah, really, ah, catapulted forward by the, by the unprecedented length of time they were being held.”

    Fran Kelly: “Okay, the government clearly doesn’t believe you. They’re not persuaded by this argument.”

  169. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 12, 2015 11:26 am

    Um, but it was quite clear to me that I could not hold an enquiry, ah, at the time of the election.

    Triggs was elected President in July 2012 but the Federal election was not until September 2013.

    Does anybody think the kids in detention inquiry would have been delayed if the Libs had been in power?

  170. June 12, 2015 11:33 am

    “Does anybody think the kids in detention inquiry would have been delayed if the Libs had been in power?”

    I don’t think that’s even the point. The Human Rights Commission is a statutory authority that’s supposed to be above partisan politics. Why should federal elections – that occur (at least) every three years – put a halt to the work of the commission? Clearly the decision not to proceed with the enquiry during the election period was made for political, not human rights, considerations.

  171. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 12, 2015 11:51 am

    Why should federal elections – that occur (at least) every three years – put a halt to the work of the commission?

    And if kids in detention is as bad for the kids as people claim why wait 14 months?

  172. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 11:52 am

    put a halt to the work of the commission?

    It didn’t, as she um clearly showed. But, as she um clearly pointed out, it makes it a poor time to start one. Especially when one is already um pencilled in for the next um year.

  173. June 12, 2015 12:00 pm

    “But, as she um clearly pointed out, it makes it a poor time to start one.”

    Um, why? What difference would it make to anyone (except the incumbent government if an adverse report was released prior to an election).

  174. TB Queensland permalink
    June 12, 2015 12:14 pm

    He–he … Wally will be pleased …

    A cross-party Senate committee has given the tick of approval to a law that would give power to big companies to block sites that offer pirated content, such as popular torrenting site KickassTorrents and streaming service Project Free TV.

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/days-numbered-for-illegal-downloaders-as-crackdown-is-given-tick-of-approval/story-fnjwneld-1227393966197

    … enjoy it while you can … about five seconds should do … LOL! 🙂

    Forgive them … for they know not what they can’t do … chuckle …

    The only way is to turn the interwebby off completely … and if they do that everyone will finally figure out just how much freedom we really haven’t got …

  175. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 12, 2015 12:19 pm

    “A terrorism expert has warned that Prime Minister Tony Abbott is feeding Islamic State’s (IS) own propaganda machine by calling it a “death cult”.”

    Of course both “experts” were the sort of terrorism experts one expects to see on the ABC. They are either idiots or hypocrites talking out of both sides of their mouths:

    Well, but they call it a spoils of war. They’re just- basically what they’re doing is they are undoing 1400 years of Islamic heritage, 1400 years of Islamic thought …

    They must know that this is rank bullshit, that Muhammad had a sex slave, that Allah sanctioned sex-slavery in the Koran and he even told Muhammad’s wives to stop bitching when the old bastard rooted his sex slave instead of them. Islamic State is merely following a tradition which has been part of Islam from the very beginning.

    And this:

    what Daesh represents is not only an aberration, it’s immoral, it is unethical, it is wrong and it needs to be defeated then we should be able to defeat it through ideas, through a robust debate within the public square

    You can bet your life those mealy-mouthed motherfuckers will not, robustly or otherwise, debate Muhammad’s sex slavery or Allah’s support for it. Yet that is precisely why people are attracted by Islamic State – they can read for themselves in the Koran that Islamic State is the real deal. Murdering infidels, fucking children, throwing homosexuals off tall buildings, keeping sex slaves – it is all there in the Koran and Hadith. I’d like to see a robust public debate about that!

    The best way to stop Islamic terrorist recruitment is to mercilessly mock the indefensible bits of the Koran so that people can see how deeply stupid it is to take as your guide a murderous genocidal sex-crazed epileptic.

  176. June 12, 2015 12:41 pm

    Triggs: “Um, but it was quite clear to me that I could not hold an enquiry, ah, at the time of the election. And after the election, not of course knowing which government was going to win that election“, I, we then found that, ah, the children were being detained for unprecedented amounts of time.”

    Trigg’s could not risk starting an inquiry before the election, because she didn’t know who’d be in office after the election – when the report would have been released. Better to wait till after the election: if Labor retained office, any enquiry would have been shelved. As it happens, the Libs won, so the enquiry was “catapulted forward”.

  177. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 12:41 pm

    “”But what was of concern to me at the Commission was that as the government moved into its new role, within those months, very few children were being released, and this is unprecedented, and they were also being held for unprecedented periods of time.””

    And that’s because the straight forward ones had already been released. The remainder were the ones of a more difficult nature whose parent(s) were taking a greater time to verify.

    But then she’s got such a fucking thick skull logic never penetrates but political opportunism seeps through easily

  178. TB Queensland permalink
    June 12, 2015 1:09 pm

    I’d like to see a robust public debate about that!

    Me too! 🙂 As long as we include the bible … and the tanakh of course …

    Seeing as all three are the word of the same god … apparently …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    But then she’s got such a fucking thick skull logic never penetrates but political opportunism seeps through easily

    LOL! Says …? Chortle …

  179. TB Queensland permalink
    June 12, 2015 1:10 pm

    BTW, Wally, I was told this morning that white is actually white …

  180. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 1:33 pm

    “BTW, Wally, I was told this morning that white is actually white …”

    I take it that was from your wife after you had put on your long below the knee white cotton socks just prior to you slipping into your stylish Roman sandals ready for lunch at the local RSL on Bingo Day.

    Or was it something to do with your white singlets she had just washed ?

    I bet you still wear body shirts

    https://www.etsy.com/listing/123873262/1970-his-1880-body-shirt-advertisement

  181. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 1:34 pm

  182. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 12, 2015 1:41 pm

    I, we then found that, ah, the children were being detained for unprecedented amounts of time

    You know i do not know Gillian triggs but i bet this comment is a load of BS. Has there been anybody on Gods earth who has been a bigger liar than Gillian Triggs?

    Don’t know much about maths but as soon as people stopped being detained the AVERAGE time in detention will always increase.

    If 5,000 kids turned up tomorrow and were detained in Labors detention centers the AVERAGE time in detention would DECREASE dramatically. As soon as people are stopped being added to Labors detention centers the AVERAGE time in detention will INCREASE.

    Triggs is a lying piece if shit. That is all the evidence that i need that she votes LABOR.

  183. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 1:58 pm

    “You know i do not know Gillian triggs but i bet this comment is a load of BS…………..Triggs is a lying piece if shit.”

    I’m sure she’d love to get to know you NoS if you and her met

  184. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 12, 2015 1:59 pm

    That is all the evidence that i need that she votes LABOR.

    I doubt it Neil, I think the Greens would get her first preference.

  185. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 2:38 pm

    Um, why? What difference would it make to anyone

    Well, her reply to the initial badgering by the fools in the senate committee who didn’t even have the common decency to read the report will offer an insight into that. When asked if she had spoken to the Labor ministers about the report at one of the specific times they posited, her reply was, of course not, as there was a caretaker mode in place. How will an inquiry be able to run when hurdles like that, in addition to the bullshit ones both sides throw up, are there, and are actually real?

    And that’s because the straight forward ones had already been released. The remainder were the ones of a more difficult nature whose parent(s) were taking a greater time to verify.

    wow, clutching at straws. So, your thesis is, the last ones in were the hardest to process, when they didn’t have a backlog. Because, under Labor, the time in detention was well under what we see now, so obviously none of these “hard cases” were around back then. With much more resource on hand. Then again, it seems most of the resources are out actually becoming a cog in the people smuggling chain.

    Tony Abbott has refused to rule out Australian officials paying people smugglers to turn back asylum-seeker vessels, saying the government was determined to “stop the boats by hook or by crook”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jun/12/tony-abbott-refuses-to-rule-out-paying-people-smugglers-to-turn-back-boats

    So even tabot admits they wouldn’t stop at illegal activities to further demonise those worst off.

  186. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 3:07 pm

    Looks like agw isn’t the only science with nutcase deniers setting up shop to do all they can to make people stoopiderer

    The Association of Australian Acoustic Consultants told the inquiry that studies had found no real physical reaction to infrasound (sound outside the range than the human ear can register, which may annoy while remaining annoyingly imperceptible) was caused by wind farms.

    In February, the National Health and Medical Council released its own findings that “there is currently no consistent evidence that wind farms cause adverse health effects in humans”.
    – See more at: https://newmatilda.com/2015/06/11/senate-inquiry-wind-farms-has-given-me-tinnitus#sthash.VIpU6JAX.dpuf

    https://newmatilda.com/2015/06/11/senate-inquiry-wind-farms-has-given-me-tinnitus

    But of course, yabot and his cronies still think it has adverse health effects.

  187. June 12, 2015 3:34 pm
  188. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 3:39 pm

    “Because, under Labor, the time in detention was well under what we see now, so obviously none of these “hard cases” were around back then.”

    Probably not given that the ALP released just about every arrival into the Community anyway. But even they were overwhelmed by the sheer scale of the numbers arriving under their crap policies of “Let em all in” so for them to get it down to just 2,000 was quite an achievement

    Under the LNP the weight of numbers were not added to hordes still in detention. So the numbers dropped.

    But maths aint your strong suit

  189. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 12, 2015 3:42 pm

    “So even tabot admits they wouldn’t stop at illegal activities to further demonise those worst off.”

    Better than drowning them by the thousand like the ALP did!

  190. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 12, 2015 3:49 pm

    “As long as we include the bible … and the tanakh of course …

    Seeing as all three are the word of the same god … apparently …”

    Why? The issue is Islamic terrorism. If you want to know why Muslims become terrorists you start with the life and teachings of the original Muslim terrorist.

    I’m not “looking over there” even though there will be plenty of idiots trying to preach some false moral equivalence.

  191. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 12, 2015 3:53 pm

    Walrus

    Read my post

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/06/09/kevin-or-julia-who-is-telling-the-troof/#comment-106854

    As soon as people are stopped being locked up the AVERAGE time in detention will increase for the people in detention. It was the continual addition of new asylum seekers that kept the average time in detention lower under Labor than under Abbott.

    Just think about it for a minute. It is also the left again being deceitful. Never trust anything they say.

  192. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 4:02 pm

    But maths aint your strong suit

    logic obviously isn’t yours.

    Better than drowning them by the thousand like the ALP did!

    Considering even more are drowning now that the libs are forcing/paying smugglers to carry them back onto the ocean, not sure how anyone can try and run that argument with a straight face.

    It’s very simple, as soon as the libs got in, the detention times skyrocketted, before any were released. It’s an obvious ‘deterrent’ strategy to stop increase drownings but move them away from our site

  193. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 4:05 pm

    Just think about it for a minute.

    It’s quite obvious you haven’t thought about it at all. What a circular piece of garbled nonsense

  194. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 12, 2015 4:26 pm

    “Considering even more are drowning now”

    And your evidence for that is?????

  195. TB Queensland permalink
    June 12, 2015 4:47 pm

    I’m not “looking over there” even though there will be plenty of idiots trying to preach some false moral equivalence.

    Look over there? But its the words of the same god? From three perspectives or …?

    Idiots? What a good start …

    To simply tear into the foolishness of Allah … while avoiding the nonsense of YHVH … and ignoring the works of God … seems a mite lopsided to me … the Moslem radicals are just catching up in the brutality stakes … like crusaders, inquisitors, protestant torturers and witch hunters on steroids, hey? Unless your jewish of course then you just bump off as many Palestinians as you can, when you can …

    I’d say the crusaders actually set the bar quite high for the modern version of christianity …

    … they are much more subtle these days … controlling governments, money, property, people – the usual stuff but without rape, pillage and razings …

    And we invaded Iraq why? And we invaded Afghanistan why? And Vietnam and anywhere else for that matter …

    So where do you want to start … modern religious history … or early?

    Just sayin’ …

  196. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 12, 2015 4:49 pm

    Sensationally interesting article Tom R. F**KING Abbott, he’s now drowning people in the Mediterranean-

    the crossing from the Mediterranean to Europe claimed over 3000 lives, while 540 migrants died in the Bay of Bengal. At least 307 died trying to cross the land border between Mexico and the USA. There have been no known asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014.

  197. TB Queensland permalink
    June 12, 2015 4:49 pm

    I wonder what’s happening to the budget these days … so many distractions … while the poor and weak and old and young are being fleeced …

  198. TB Queensland permalink
    June 12, 2015 4:50 pm

    no known

  199. June 12, 2015 4:59 pm

    “Abbott, he’s now drowning people in the Mediterranean”

    Why isn’t Gillian Triggs all over this?

  200. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 5:24 pm

    “Abbott, he’s now drowning people in the Mediterranean”

    ROFLMAO

    He dares chastise OUR logic ?

    That’s TomR logic for ya

    I’ve ben rolling around laughing at him so much I’ll need to get the timber floorboards recoated .

  201. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 12, 2015 5:28 pm

    It’s quite obvious you haven’t thought about it at all. What a circular piece of garbled nonsense

    I have thought about it. Just say 2,000 asylum seekers turned up tomorrow and Abbott locked them up. If in 2 weeks time you determined the AVERAGE time of people in detention it would be much lower than before the 2,000 turned up because 2,000 have been in detention for only 2 weeks.

    Now if you looked at the actual time in detention rather than the average time, 2,000 have been in detention for 2 weeks and the rest for perhaps months.

    People continually being added to detention as they were under Rudd/Gillard will keep the average time in detention lower than if nobody is being added to detention as it was under Abbott.

  202. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 6:24 pm

    There have been no known asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014.

    Just thought I’d emphasis that, but, that isn’t the point.

    When we send them off on their merry way, WHERE DO THEY GO?

    Think before you type!

  203. June 12, 2015 6:33 pm

    boo`of.melb””””There have been `no`known` asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014.”””’

    #2319 numb-nuts

    #There have been `no`known` unicorn deaths on Australian roads in 2014.

  204. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 6:35 pm

    because 2,000 have been in detention for only 2 weeks.

    Get your mum to explain it to you dopey, because that is soo stoopid……

    As to the drownings, let’s not forget the recent asylum seekers Indonesia refused. That is directly on us.

  205. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 6:35 pm

  206. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 12, 2015 6:53 pm

    Get your mum to explain it to you dopey, because that is soo stoopid……

    I actually thought from some of your comments that you might have a science education but obviously not.

    Just say 2,000 people have been in detention for 12 months. Well the average time in detention is 12 months.

    Just say another 2,000 people turn up so we now have 4,000 people in detention. Just say you measure the average length of time in detention the next day.

    average time in detention now becomes 6 months.

    2,000 people in detention for 12 months and 2,000 people in detention for zero months means the AVERAGE length of time in detention is now 6 months.

    It is just simple maths.

  207. Tom R permalink
    June 12, 2015 7:03 pm

    It is just simple maths.

    Emphasis on the simple simpleton

  208. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 12, 2015 7:07 pm

    Talking to a brick wall would be easier.

    I am sure the length of time in detention for each individual asylum seeker has not changed under Abbott.

    I am sure you know what an average is. Average length of time has increased because there are no new arrivals at detention centers.

    It is just simple maths

  209. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 12, 2015 7:09 pm

    …and let’s clarify who said what, as identified in Tom R’s link-

    International Organisation for Migration said

    the crossing from the Mediterranean to Europe claimed over 3000 lives, while 540 migrants died in the Bay of Bengal. At least 307 died trying to cross the land border between Mexico and the USA. There have been no known asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014.

    No point in misunderstanding the links and information Tom R provides!

  210. June 12, 2015 7:35 pm

    Splattering @ June 12, 2015 12:19 pm

    Wow! splatters, you really subscribe to mr-rabbits fear-squirting don`t you. You should learn some history, every word you wrote equally transposes across other dog-clubs, particularly `kristian`.

    +

    Teebz @ June 12, 2015 4:47 pm

    #yep, agree fully, splatter`s history lesson begins there

  211. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 12, 2015 7:58 pm

    “Wow! splatters, you really subscribe to mr-rabbits fear-squirting don`t you. You should learn some history, every word you wrote equally transposes across other dog-clubs, particularly `kristian`.”

    Except of course you stupid, stupid dogfucker (it is Friday and I am pissed after all) that 90% of terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims in the name of their idiot religion.

    Put another way, the real threat to you and your freedom of belief and expression comes not from the Buddhists or Baptists or Jains or Jews. It comes from followers of the Prophet who married a six year old, who fucked her when she was nine and who owned sex slaves, massacred Jews, taught that you should convert to his belief or die and who was a one of the most disgusting humans that ever lived. And you know this, but you are such a pathetic specimen of humanity that you do not have the courage to say this without somehow finding a way to also criticise Christians. Because, and only because, you are an utter fuckwit.

  212. June 12, 2015 8:22 pm

    😆 @ splatter

  213. June 12, 2015 9:14 pm

    “… enjoy it while you can … about five seconds should do … LOL! 🙂

    Forgive them … for they know not what they can’t do … chuckle …

    The only way is to turn the interwebby off completely … and if they do that everyone will finally figure out just how much freedom we really haven’t got …”

    I should have posted my link here…

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/05/29/rostrum-shouty-friday-edition/#comment-106892

  214. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 12, 2015 9:16 pm

    TomR- some maths for you

    If 50 people have been in detention for 4 months and another 50 people had been in detention for 8 months, the average time in detention is 4+8/2=6 months.

    If another 50 people suddenly turn up and we do the calculation again, average time in detention = 0+4+8/3= 4 months.

    The average time in detention has been reduced from 6 to 4 months by the new arrivals. Abbott had no new arrivals so average time in detention was higher under Abbott.

  215. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 12, 2015 9:52 pm

    “Because, and only because, you are an utter fuckwit.”

    Consensus at GT at last.

  216. June 12, 2015 9:53 pm

    “I should have posted my link here…”

    I don’t do illegal “free” downloads, so don’t know much about this topic. I’d like to hear your take on “intellectual/artistic property” vs. “internet freedom” (if that’s even the argument here).

    Please explain. Seriously.

  217. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 10:04 pm

    Steve Purvinas from one of the aircraft unions absolutely putting shit on the AWU tonight on Skynews.

    He pouted out that Shorten denied knowledge of bulk union ships at the Cole Royal Commission in 2002 or 2003.

    Jail 😅

  218. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 10:07 pm

    The last time I did an illegal download was when I was 25 she was 23 and she said “don’t you dare “and I pointed something at her kneck.👿

  219. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 10:23 pm

    I do recall Splatter having more of a Shakesperian turn of phrase when he first landed here.

    That’s what GT does to us I suppose

    But it good to come back to a site where one day we might be calling each other cunts low dogs scumbags arsehole stupid fucking freebie anarchist nurses and even accuse one of being a CPA

    But everything is forgotten the next day

    Thank you reb

  220. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 12, 2015 10:27 pm

    Watch me here in a week-

    http://www.biarritz.fr/portail/webcam_2.html

  221. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 12, 2015 10:29 pm

    But I hope the surf is better in a week than it is today.

  222. Team Secular Encyclical permalink
    June 12, 2015 11:06 pm

    Alms for the poor.

  223. Walrus permalink
    June 12, 2015 11:26 pm

    Brilliant strategy

    Pay off the people smugglers crew not the people smuggler

    What a complete break up of the business model plus it’s cheaper than housing them anywhere else.

    Do more of it I say

  224. June 13, 2015 2:51 am

    splattering”””Put another way, the real threat to you and your freedom”””

    #The `real` threat to me, my freedom/s(speech,interwebz), is the zealot-zombies in my govt and their zealot-ideas. l am much more at `risk` from zealot-neglect of ohs/safety, with much loosened and un-policed ohs, where, say, a wall or scaffold collapse and kill/injure me, than any tewwa-squirting ever will. Much more chance of being run-over by a drunk-driving-plod or a unicorn stampede. #teabag.talk

  225. June 13, 2015 3:07 am

    smh”””’Tanya Plibersek said: `Julie Bishop’s proposal for a ‘Green Book’ is only about one thing, trying to hide the fact that after $11 billion of cuts, she presides over the weakest foreign aid program in Australian history.”””’#via.team.secular

    #while what plib has said seems correct

    #my bet is team-blib will support it/keep it

  226. June 13, 2015 3:23 am

    Tonight`s update on blib and the onion inquiry,

    #they `have` decided to `invite` blib for a guest appearance at the inquiry, in Aug or Sept or Oct, so now we have to wait and see if blib will have the ticker to say anything publicly before hand, or will blib just cop mr-poodles leg cocking for the next six to 12 weeks.

  227. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 8:52 am

    Union hack uses his position to advance interests of himself over the interests of the union members.

    How thoroughly unusual. I’ve never heard of that happening before.

  228. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 9:36 am

    I am sure the length of time in detention for each individual asylum seeker has not changed under Abbott.

    nil, get an education

    https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/forgotten-children-national-inquiry-children-immigration-detention-2014/4-overview

    No point in misunderstanding the links and information Tom R provides!

    Yet you do. Please, tell me again (sarc), where did these boats we forced back (and possibly actually made land) end up?

    and who was a one of the most disgusting humans that ever lived

    You mean, worst than a catlik priest?

  229. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 9:47 am

    keystone grubmint

    Political hatchet jobs don’t get much nastier, or undignified, or unqualified than the one Peter Dutton attempted on Gillian Triggs and Sarah Hanson-Young last Friday. Or more baseless.

    Dutton, the po-faced former Queensland policeman, is the Minister for Immigration who will have the discretion, under legislation to be introduced in the next fortnight, to strip citizenship from dual nationals accused of being terrorists.

    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-truth-goes-overboard-as-ministers-line-up-to-shoot-the-messengers-20150612-ghmc74.html

    The story highlights, again, how the oz and the libs work hand in hand.

    The oz isn’t so helpful this morning

    The government’s proposed legislation to strip terror suspects of their citizenship by ministerial discretion is based on a mistaken reading of advice from one of its top experts on national security law.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/terror/terrorist-blueprint-based-on-mistake/story-fnpdbcmu-1227395534937

    Imagine dutton being able to make decisions.

    And, for the uninformed, and because I have seen it reported elsewhere, Labor do no have “in principle” support for letting the minister have discretion. They have stated their opposition to that section.

  230. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 9:50 am

    so now we have to wait and see if blib will have the ticker to say anything publicly before hand

    He had already pre-empted you teamnobody

  231. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 9:56 am

    But I’m sure the journos will still claim he has “questions to answer”

    JOURNALIST: Why was Winslow then paying the dues, could you answer that question?

    SHORTEN: Well first of all, what arrangement employees and employers strike in terms of that matter is a matter for them to answer. In terms of what I have done and in terms of what the union movement does, we believe fundamentally and I believe as a Labor leader that we stand up for working people. Now a lot of this has come out of Tony Abbott’s trade union royal commission and I always expected there’d be a fair bit of, you know, political smear and debate – but again let me state with no hesitation whatsoever; I spent my adult life every day getting up representing people and I’m proud of my record.

    JOURNALIST: So you were a union official at the time that deal was concluded. Can you explain to us how it benefitted the workers of Winslow Construction?

    SHORTEN: Well the agreement is registered in the commission and it delivered pay rises for workers. In terms of all of it and all of the matters, you know, my union record has been public and it’s always been consistent, creating good and safe workplaces, building up better job security for workers, making sure that people got fair wages and conditions. That’s the record, that’s working with employees and employers and it’s the same set of values which I and my Labor team apply every day, we’re just interested in the best interests of Australians.

    http://billshorten.com.au/doorstop-rydalmere-higher-education-tony-abbotts-royal-commission

    Meanwhile, as much as yabot and the media want to ignore it, the budget is what will affect peoples lives. It will not go away. Social media at work again, doing the churnalists job.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/working-mother-mel-wilson-gives-joe-hockey-a-lesson-about-house-prices-20150612-ghm7b6

  232. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:06 am

    nil, get an education

    Well i was actually talking about total asylum seekers not kids in detention. Kids in detention peaked at almost 2,000 under Labor and are now down to less than 100.

    And that graph you shows stops at Jan 2014, just after Abbott was elected. I fail to see your point. You would need to present a graph in Dec 2014 to make your point.

    See this link for a maths lecture. As soon as new arrivals are stopped being added to detention centers the average time in detention will go up. It is just simple maths.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/06/09/kevin-or-julia-who-is-telling-the-troof/#comment-106898

  233. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:14 am

    I fail to see your point.

    I’m not surprised nil.

    The point is, you called Triggs a liar, the numbers show otherwise

  234. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:19 am

    What a stupid tactic by Shorten, he says he defends his record as a union leader, but then says he won’t be answering questions about his record until August or September.

    At every opportunity he should be asked questions about his record and he’ll be shown to be the dodgy, evasive hack that he really is.

  235. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:22 am

    She is a liar. But which lie was i talking about?

    Did you see the huge sudden increase in kids in detention under Labor from your picture?? When Abbott stopped the boats there were no new additions to detention centers so average time in detention increased. Anyway your graph stops at Jan 2014 so any point you are trying to make is useless.

    It is just simple maths.

  236. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:32 am

    It is just simple maths.

    Exactly, simple maths

    Triggs said time in detention increased under the libs

    The data confirms it. Maybe now you should say sorry?

  237. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:37 am

    … that 90% of terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims in the name of their idiot … religious sects …

    But, to put it in context, I guess if Australia had been raided and invaded for centuries by an Asian alliance of religious nutters I’d feel a bit pissed off too …

    https://books.google.com.au/books?id=EtzHAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=the+popes+holy+war+in+europe&source=bl&ots=K24Au-rKF8&sig=0RRm5eintC1G7EoBYPdwePWa-8Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBmoVChMI4-G-hLWLxgIVBre8Ch33KgCi#v=onepage&q=the%20popes%20holy%20war%20in%20europe&f=false

    I guess what I’m saying is that you really can’t take the high moral ground just because ISIL followers are a millennium behind everyone else … as yoy point out the real cause is their organised religion … and its “beliefs” … no proof, no troof …

    Applying the stages of group dynamics (forming, storming, norming, performing and adjourning)

    You could place the EU (who were after all the original crusaders) at the performing stage … no more in-fighting … the middle east is at the storming stage … in the case of sovereign states it takes centuries to move through GD … but the real problem is getting through that norming stage …

  238. June 13, 2015 10:39 am

    boo”””’At every opportunity he should be asked questions about his record and he`ll be shown to be the dodgy, evasive hack that he really is.””””

    #it`s looking that way yomm, a couple of hours ago on my abc, the talking-head `chatter` that was on used the word `extortion` in it, unfortunately l was just returning from the dunny so l didn`t catch the whole clip. They haven`t repeated it again tho, which is odd. #blib

  239. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:41 am

    Triggs said time in detention increased under the libs

    Well i think she is wrong but she has told many lies and i am not sure if i called this statement a lie. But your graph stops at Jan 2014 so any point you are making is useless.
    Read this explanation of averages to see the point i am making.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/06/09/kevin-or-julia-who-is-telling-the-troof/#comment-106898

  240. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:45 am

    At every opportunity he should be asked questions about his record and he`ll be shown to be the dodgy, evasive hack that he really is

    Are we talking about tabot, pyne? From memory, they both have lots of questions to answer.

    Which reminds me.

    We are currently involved in the people smuggle industry

    People smugglers have been linked o funding ISIS

    Those linked with tewwa and are of dual national citizenship can have their Australian citizenship revoked under the new proposal.

    Is it time for tabot to prove for once and all that he revoked his British citizenship?

    Else he might find himself in a position where he is forced back there 🙂

  241. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:46 am

    and i am not sure if i called this statement a lie.

    😆

    But your graph stops at Jan 2014 so any point you are making is useless.

    no, its proves the point.

  242. June 13, 2015 10:54 am

    JOURNALIST:”””’Why was Winslow then paying the dues, could you answer that question?””””’

    #that transcript snippet you dropped team-cheerer just shows blib tap-dancing around the mulberry-bush, blib wouldn`t need to do the tap-dancing if he wasn`t trying to avoid something. lf blib wasn`t dealing with winslow and/or doesn`t know, blib would be able to just state it plainly. Like-wise, if it was normal member `fees` from wage deductions, blib would be able to plainly state that to. The fact that he won`t state plainly a normal/sane answer, and instead prefer to be pounded by the teabags if `innocent` only makes blib look wonderfully useless.

  243. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 11:11 am

    Yep, a hack that took money from employers to bolster his sway in the ALP and union and who gave favoured employers an easy run and cheap wages – all at the expense of the union members.

    The turf war between the AWU and CFMEU has its roots in the dodgy deals Shorten did to expand AWU’s membership.

  244. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 11:43 am

    that transcript snippet you dropped team-cheerer just shows blib tap-dancing around the mulberry-bush,

    Actually, it showed a churnalist interrupting before Shorten had answered.

    Yep, a hack that took money from employers Who had taken it from employees to pay their Union fees. We used to do it for Union fees, it was very common practice for the employer to deduct them out of our pay directly. It is still done for super. In fact, it is illegal NOT to do it for super.

    What a fucken conniption.

    Meanwhile, tabots daughter gets a free scholarship, the institution gets special treatment from tabot, and there are no “Question to Answer”.

    Pyne has so many Questions to Answer of Ashbygate, but silence from the journos.

    A Union rep gets pay rises for workers, and there are nothing but Questions to Answer, no matter how often he does, (or is able considering the ongoing legal witch hunt)

    What a crock of shit. Our media are bankrupt.

  245. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 12:01 pm

    So you’re saying this was payroll deduction rather than the employer paying the fees?

    Does the current AWU state secretary agree that this was the practice?

  246. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 12:07 pm

    With so many people pissing in the wind at nothing and at so many irrelevant issues I smell a rat in the Abbott’s vicarage … one or two look over there’s is probably normal but this lot is throwing red herrings out in buckets …

    Just how many hidden agendas do Abbott & The Acolytes have to hide?

    The Budget?

    People Smugglers and Asylum Seekers?

    Detention Centres?

    International Relationships?

    ISIL and troop deployment?

    F35?

    Submarines?

    Internet Censorship?

    TPP?

    And the list goes on … and on …

    I

  247. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 12:08 pm

    Does the current AWU state secretary agree that this was the practice?

    It was common … my dues were deducted …

  248. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 12:10 pm

    So you’re saying this was payroll deduction rather than the employer paying the fees?

    I’m not saying it, the evidence at the commission is. I linked to it earlier

    Does the current AWU state secretary agree that this was the practice?

    I don’t know if they had the same arrangement or not, and I’m not aware how much things have changed recently.

    With workchoices and other attacks on Unions, it probably isn’t allowed, or it is at least frowned upon.

    Just another method of driving Unions out of workplaces. Most people won’t go out of their way to pay a Union to get the pay rises they’ll get anyway from the Unions work.

  249. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 12:16 pm

    no, its proves the point.

    No it doesn’t. Your graph shows a huge drop of kids in detention from 1,700 from July 2013 to 1,100 in January 2014. If numbers of kids in detention went down how could time in detention increase? And that is another lie. Triggs said very few were being released under the new govt

    Here is your answer

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/06/09/kevin-or-julia-who-is-telling-the-troof/#comment-106898

    Anyway i was talking about asylum seekers in detention not just kids.

    And Triggs is a liar. She said there were armed guards at Christmas Island but detention centers do not have armed guards.

  250. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 12:22 pm

    If numbers of kids in detention went down how could time in detention increase?

    😯

    And you want to lecture me on maths ROFL

    Anyway i was talking about asylum seekers in detention not just kids.

    Who gives a fuck

  251. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 12:24 pm

    Submarines?

    Interesting article on that here TB

    http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/australian-soryus-will-not-be-off-shelf.html

  252. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 1:04 pm

    Who gives a fuck

    Just pointing out your errors. This comment from this article explains the error in more detail.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-23/triggs-detention/6083476

    wave2surf 4:35 PM on 24/02/2015

    Average time in detention, as measured in the way shown in the article, is actually a meaningless figure as it is mostly influenced by the number of arrivals on any given day, not just how long its taking to process people.

    It is not a measure of processing time.

  253. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 1:22 pm

    But Tom R, are you saying all Shorten was doing was agreeing to payroll deduction of union fees?

  254. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 1:30 pm

    But Tom R, are you saying all Shorten was doing was agreeing to payroll deduction of union fees?

    Oh, dear HTF would anyone know … Anyone!

  255. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 1:30 pm

    ROFL nil

    Fact check: Triggs correct on the length of time children spent in detention

    I’ll back the abc’s fact check (and Triggs) over your “wave2surf” ramblings, who has as much understanding of the subject as you do

    Obviously he (and you) have no understanding of statistics or maths

  256. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 1:32 pm

    Oh, dear HTF would anyone know … Anyone!

    BUT HE HAS QUESTIONS TO ANSWER!!!!!

  257. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 1:41 pm

    I’ll back the abc’s fact check (and Triggs) over your “wave2surf” ramblings, who has as much understanding of the subject as you do

    And i will back wave2surf and myself over you any day. Do you remember this comment you made?

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/06/09/kevin-or-julia-who-is-telling-the-troof/#comment-106867

    Considering even more are drowning now that the libs are forcing/paying smugglers to carry them back onto the ocean, not sure how anyone can try and run that argument with a straight face.

    You even posted a link which showed you were wrong. Your link listed all the drownings in the Mediterranean but then said this

    There have been no known asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014.

    Almost everything you post is wrong.

  258. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 1:44 pm

    “Oh, dear HTF would anyone know … Anyone!

    With the greatest of respect TB, the current AWU state secretary seems to know, and he’s now criticising the past practices. You should try to keep up.

  259. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 3:14 pm

    But Tom R, are you saying all Shorten was doing was agreeing to payroll deduction of union fees?

    With the greatest respect in return … your question was aimed at TR! The AU sec “seems” to know?

    And the “past practice” you refer to was an acceptable practice in the day … criticising it doesn’t mean it was wrong then … I mean I’m not too keen on hanging people … but it used to be acceptable practice …

    With respect?… Do keep up? Double standards? Make your mind up your starting to sound like a Tory …

  260. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:12 pm

    People Smugglers and Asylum Seekers?

    All problems caused by ALP/Greens

    Detention Centres?

    All built or put back into action by ALP/Greens

    International Relationships?

    Phone bugging by Rudd and banning the live cattle trade caused lots of problems

    ISIL and troop deployment?

    What is your problem?

    F35?

    Submarines?

    Did Hawke/Keating not spend any money on the military? It was Beasley who wanted us to build the Collins Class submarines in Australia. I should add this is one of the few things i agreed with that Hawke/Keating did.

    What are you saying TB, we should not have a military?

  261. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:12 pm

    You even posted a link which showed you were wrong

    Excuse me! The link showed that the number of drownings worldwide increased dramatically in line with Australia forcing boats back.

    Please prove to me that none of those additional drownings were as a result of our actions.

    Because, considering we have no idea who, what, why or when people were turned back, we cannot prove it either way, can we? All we have is the word of proven habitual liars.

    and he’s now criticising the past practices.

    hmmm, what does “past” mean yomm?

    And, he’s not criticising them, he’s saying he wouldn’t do it now. See my other comment above.

  262. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:14 pm

    It was Beasley who wanted us to build the Collins Class submarines in Australia.

    And it was yabot who went against the militaries advise and began this rubbish with Japan.

    Again, see the link I put up earlier which shows just hos poorly suited the Japanese set up is for Australia. There is no way you can call them “off the shelf”

  263. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:17 pm

    Well TB, let’s drop with “with respect”…

    Do you really F**KING think that this is a debate about payroll deduction of union fees or the practice of employers paying the fees for non union members to keep off the union radar?

    You’re a F**KING dill if you think it is the former.

  264. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:21 pm

    Excuse me! The link showed that the number of drownings worldwide increased dramatically in line with Australia forcing boats back.

    Come on TomR. You have totally lost it. So the thousands of drownings in the Mediterranean are Abbotts fault?

  265. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:27 pm

    Do you really F**KING think that this is a debate about payroll deduction

    Of course not. It is about an ongoing continual smear of Shorten, in exactly the same manner as they tried t smear Gillard.

    After that, all it is about is a non story about payroll deductions

    So the thousands of drownings in the Mediterranean are Abbotts fault?

    Quite obviously that is not what I said. I’ll highlight it for you dopey.

    Please prove to me that none of those additional drownings were as a result of our actions.

    I note yomm is unable to clarify just what happened to all those forced back.

    All we have done is shipped the problem off elsewhere, and magnified its intensity in the process

  266. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:35 pm

    All we have done is shipped the problem off elsewhere, and magnified its intensity in the process

    So the drownings just off Italy are Abbotts fault.

  267. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:37 pm

    Tom R-

    1. I’ve only quoted your interesting link, about where asylum seeker deaths occurred. Don’t blame me if you find your link inconvenient
    2. I’m only referring to the criticism of past AWU practice by the current AWU secretary.

    It’s unfortunate if you find both these sources annoying.

  268. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:41 pm

    Don’t blame me if you find your link inconvenient

    Don’t blame me if you cannot tell me that none of those drownings are a result of Australias policy or not

    I’m only referring to the criticism of past AWU practice by the current AWU secretary.

    Perhaps you could provide his exact words, as, in the past, what you think you hear is not always what was said.

    I mean, if the biggest issue you have is “Shorten did this previously, we don’t do that now”, then it’s time you checked history and changing practices over time.

    #justsayin

  269. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 4:53 pm

    1. Let’s just get some background straight Tom R.

    • You asserted that the drownings were still occurring.
    • SB challenged you on this
    • You posted a link that said none were known in Australia

    It isn’t up anyone else to prove anything, you posted a link that you said would prove something, and it didn’t.

    —–
    2. You asserted that the practice referred to was payroll deductions of unio fees by an employer.

    It isn’t up to anyone else to prove anything. It’s up to you to show that the statement referred to payroll deduction by the employer.

  270. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 5:08 pm

    Documents tendered to the commission show that the union’s Victorian branch in 2005 – when Shorten was in charge – invoiced a Melbourne builder, Winslow Constructions, for $38,228 to pay for 105 union memberships. The company was invoiced again when Shorten was branch secretary.
    While the arrangement has been portrayed as an unscrupulous deal hatched by Shorten, Winslow has told the commission that it started in the 1990s, before Shorten was at the AWU.
    Winslow said the practice was driven by a desire to keep out the militant Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union. The two unions have had a historical conflict, and the AWU’s apparent willingness to reach accommodations with employers led to it being dubbed “Australia’s Weakest Union” by the CFMEU.
    While an employer paying union memberships is not illegal, it is industrially questionable. Current AWU secretary Ben Davis told the commission the practice weakened the bargaining power of unions and their members.

    So under Shorten, the AWU invoiced the employer for the money, and Tom R and TB think it’s payroll deduction!

    http://www.afr.com/news/policy/industrial-relations/shorten-at-risk-of-being-haunted-by-choice-20150612-ghmqse

  271. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 5:08 pm

    My comment – “So under Shorten, the AWU invoiced the employer for the money, and Tom R and TB think it’s payroll deduction!”

    The rest is the quote.

  272. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 5:12 pm

    People Smugglers and Asylum Seekers?

    All problems caused by ALP/Greens

    Ya see how we laugh at you, Kneel … ?

    Most asylum seekers come to Australia after we have invaded their countries … or they have real issues in their own …

    Now the only modern governments that go war are Liberal owned …

    As for the rest of your fucking stupidity … you’ll find they all link to the first reply …

  273. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 5:18 pm

    Well TB, let’s drop with “with respect”…

    Do you really F**KING think that this is a debate about payroll deduction of union fees or the practice of employers paying the fees for non union members to keep off the union radar?

    You’re a F**KING dill if you think it is the former.

    Now we see the real ToM … with respect FFS … try and blindside me of all people here …

    I don’t F**KING think I know it happened … and I was party to it … as a member of the Personnel Dept I worked for … YOU are trying to beat it up … were you there?

    There was a paper trail ya dill … it was on the members payslip … for tax purposes … you may have quals. in economics but ya ain’t got much in accounting and tax!

  274. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 5:30 pm

    So under Shorten, the AWU invoiced the employer for the money, and Tom R and TB think it’s payroll deduction!

    It was actually common practice for decades … don’t show yer iggorance … whether it was “tweaked” in this case I don’t know … nor do you – you just want it to be!

    AND … FYI (and anyone reading of course) I fought the AMWU for six months until they threatened to take my colleagues out … not wanting my workmates to suffer for my convictions I conceded – provided I got their ($5) union rules book for free … a week later the secretary came to see me and presented me with my rule book and a serious request that I become the union rep – because of my “fight”… so I said, yes … to look after my, mates (male and female I might add).

    So don’t – “with respect me” or put up your “opinions” until you’ve “walked in the moccasins”!

    You weren’t – with respect – F**KING there …

  275. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 5:41 pm

    An employer directly makes the payments to the union, and you think this is “tweaking” payroll deduction.

    TB, you’re digging yourself into a hole.

    …and how impressive…you worked in a personnel dept!

  276. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 5:52 pm

    From yomms link

    It was concerned the practice could be in breach of a construction code introduced by the former state coalition government to reduce the influence of unions.

    So the coalition grubmint made the practice (well, not even illegal, but questionable) and they now want to pin this on actions BEFORE the changes were made

    ffs, is this not the biggest piece of unsubstantiated smear yet?

    Well, Gillards was just as stoopid, yet our media still fell over themselves.

  277. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 6:06 pm

    1. Let’s just get some background straight Tom R.
    • You asserted that the drownings were still occurring.
    • SB challenged you on this
    • You posted a link that said none were known in Australia
    It isn’t up anyone else to prove anything, you posted a link that you said would prove something, and it didn’t.
    —–
    2. You asserted that the practice referred to was payroll deductions of unio fees by an employer.
    It isn’t up to anyone else to prove anything. It’s up to you to show that the statement referred to payroll deduction by the employer.

  278. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 6:11 pm

    TB, you’re digging yourself into a hole.

    …and how impressive…you worked in a personnel dept!

    Maybe I should mention that the manager was my mentor … I was privy to just about everything that went on in the department and a witness in most meetings with the unions … and personnel departments were responsible for the payroll … how fkn stupid that you didn’t know that …

    And I actually said … “”” whether it was “tweaked” in this case I don’t know “””

    I didn’t sayand you think this is “tweaking” payroll deduction.

    I said I didn’t know … you want it to be … you really are becoming Wally II , putting words into other people’s comments … just to make you point … I DON’T KNOW means, I DON’T F**KING KNOW ??? Nor do YOU!

    Just what “postgraduate” quals do you have … ’cause you don’t make a logical case … just, I thinks and, must haves … and you saids – inaccurately … with due respect … of course …

    And BTW I was a member of the AMWU a decade before I was lucky enough to have a business mentor … prior to that I had been both a line and staff manager … safety officers don’t join unions … unions attempted to appoint them … should I say good WH&S Officers don’t … 🙂

  279. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 6:17 pm

    Most asylum seekers come to Australia after we have invaded their countries …

    They started to come after Rudd/Gillard removed the Pacific Solution. And of the top 5 source countries for asylum seekers, three are from countries we did not invade (Sri Lanka, Iran and Pakistan). The other 2 were Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Now the only modern governments that go war are Liberal owned …

    It was Hawke/Keating who took us to the Middle East. And Rudd/Gillard did not take us out of Afghanistan. In fact almost all our military deaths happened under Rudd/Gillard.

  280. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 6:27 pm

    It isn’t up anyone else to prove anything

    So, the fact that boats are being sent back, without our knowledge of details, and then more people start drowning. I can draw a line yomm. Not being able to prove anything is precisely WHY this bullshit “on water matters” is so wrong. So, where do these people go?

    It isn’t up to anyone else to prove anything.

    You are the one making a claim that is something else, you show something

    LINDSAY PARTRIDGE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BRICKWORKS: Yes, that is correct. It was fairly normal practice in the-from 70s on for companies to collect on behalf of their employees, the union dues then pass them on to the union on a monthly basis.

  281. June 13, 2015 6:30 pm

    This thread is hilarious!

  282. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 6:44 pm

    This isn’t … and its TODAY!

    LABOR is demanding Prime Minister Tony Abbott provide an “emphatic denial” of “jaw-dropping” reports the government is paying people smugglers to turn back asylum seeker boats.

    THE demand came as Indonesia’s Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi sought an explanation from Australia’s ambassador Paul Grigson over claims the navy paid crew members of a boat thousands of dollars to turn back.

    Under repeated questioning on Friday, Mr Abbott refused to deny the reports, instead saying authorities had been “incredibly creative” in coming up with ways to stop asylum seeker boats making it to Australia.

    Opposition immigration spokesman Richard Marles believes that refusal leaves the door “wide open” to the idea the government is handing wads of taxpayers’ cash to smugglers.

    “Really, it leaves one with the only possible assumption that that may well have been exactly what happened,” he told reporters in Melbourne on Saturday, demanding an “emphatic denial” from the prime minister.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/greens-want-govt-to-produce-smuggling-docs/story-e6frfku9-1227395935502

  283. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 6:48 pm

    They started to come after Rudd/Gillard removed the Pacific Solution.

    They came after WWII and Vietnam you fucking dopey moron …

    Really getting sick of sycophantic idiocy from right whingers on this blog … they’re like stick figures of the government … tell lies and create enough BS and it becomes a truth … typical bible basher shite!

  284. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 7:02 pm

    This thread is hilarious!

    I AGREE!

    yomm thinks Union officials getting better pay deals for their members have “Questions to Answer”

    nil thinks we should only look after asylum seekers from countries we have invaded.

    Much amusement

  285. June 13, 2015 7:04 pm

    As I said: Guffaw!

  286. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 13, 2015 7:28 pm

    They came after WWII and Vietnam you fucking dopey moron …

    And how many of these people came by boat? I believe most of the Vietnamese refugees which we took under Fraser were flown in.

    The only person telling lies is you TB. Oh and also TomR who is trying to blame the thousands of refugees turning up in Italy on Abbott. Oh and also the rest of the ALP deadbeats who would not recognize the truth if they saw it walking down the street.

  287. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 7:45 pm

    who is trying to blame the thousands of refugees turning up in Italy on Abbott.

    Like I said nil, read my comments, instead of making shit up.

  288. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:21 pm

    This post is hilarious..
    1. Let’s just get some background straight Tom R.
    • You asserted that the drownings were still occurring.
    • SB challenged you on this
    • You posted a link that said none were known in Australia
    It isn’t up anyone else to prove anything, you posted a link that you said would prove something, and it didn’t.
    —–
    2. You asserted that the practice referred to was payroll deductions of unio fees by an employer.
    It isn’t up to anyone else to prove anything. It’s up to you to show that the statement referred to payroll deduction by the employer.

  289. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 13, 2015 10:22 pm

    and…
    Tom R.
    • You asserted that the drownings were still occurring.
    • SB challenged you on this
    • You posted a link that said none were known in Australia

  290. June 13, 2015 11:59 pm

    Continually quoting `brickworks` doesn`t help blib team-cheerer, when `winslow` have made the allegations at the inquiry, that is why it seems blib is getting a very public pasting, and seems to look guilty. Silly blib needs to do more `plain-speaking` and less `tap-dancing`, blib is only hurting himself.

    #what blib is currently doing is only showing blib as `foolish` or `crooked`

  291. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 14, 2015 9:52 am

    Lucky those unions are around to protect the interests of their members, because without unions people might get ripped off!!

    Supermarket giant Coles might have to pay up to $50 million more per year in wages, after the industrial umpire intervened in a cosy deal with the conservative shop assistants’ union that would have underpaid many thousands of workers.

    The commission’s analysis is also humiliating for the SDA. It confirms the union negotiated a deal that in many cases appears to pay well below the award, the basic wages safety net.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/watchdog-steps-in-over-coles-low-pay-deal-with-union-20150613-ghn4rs.html

  292. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:02 am

    and…
    Tom R.
    • You asserted that the drownings were still occurring.
    • SB challenged you on this
    • You posted a link that said none were known in Australia

    As I said, and proved, more asylum seekers are drowning NOW than before the grubmint began forcing these boats back out onto the open sea. The facts proved this to be the case. No one here is able to confirm or not if those we sent back are in this group, but the fact remains, more are now drowning, precisely as I stated.

    We also know that people died recently when Indonesia and Malaysia tried the same thing. A direct result of OUR policy.

    You can try and prove my statement wrong yomm, but, since I have already put up the evidence, that might prove difficult

    The commission’s analysis is also humiliating for the SDA.

    The SDA are shit, and have been for a long time. It’s what happens when Unions are weakened and become puppets for big business. Luckily, safeguards put in by Labor prevent anachronistic old farts like them removing conditions.

    Haven’t the SDA already been through the witch hunt. WOW, and they got through unscathed. Unsurprising. Mates rates perhaps 😉

  293. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:18 am

    And how many of these people came by boat? I believe most of the Vietnamese refugees which we took under Fraser were flown in.

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=vietnamese+boat+people&newwindow=1&biw=1553&bih=960&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQsARqFQoTCKqqsvPzjcYCFQYfpgod1TYAOQ

    You obviously weren’t in Australia then … as I said …

  294. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:19 am

    And guess where the term “boat people” came from? 😮

  295. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 14, 2015 11:36 am

    You obviously weren’t in Australia then … as I said …

    Most Vietnamese refugees were flown in from camps. As usual you are not to be trusted.

    As I said, and proved, more asylum seekers are drowning NOW than before the grubmint began forcing these boats back out onto the open sea.

    Are you insane?? There have been no known deaths since the Boats have stopped. There were 1,200 drownings under Labor that we know of and most probably 5 times that we do not know about.

    There have been lots of drowning just off the coast of Italy but only a Labor supporter would blame Abbott for that.

  296. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 11:59 am

    Sidewinding again … this is what YOU said …

    “””Most asylum seekers come to Australia after we have invaded their countries …”””

    They started to come after Rudd/Gillard removed the Pacific Solution. And of the top 5 source countries for asylum seekers, three are from countries we did not invade (Sri Lanka, Iran and Pakistan). The other 2 were Afghanistan and Iraq.

    How they came is really irrelevant!

    But you chose to argue “how” Vietnamese refugees arrived rather than say … oh, yes I forgot about WWII and Vietnam … no, you said … it was all Rudd/Gillard … twit!

    Most asylum seekers arrive here immediately after Australia and the USA have invaded their country … but that doesn’t mean others don’t arrive for other reasons, religious persecution, civilo war, famine, cultural persecution, totalitarian regimes (or change) etc …

  297. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 14, 2015 12:28 pm

    A little background re Tom R’s current obfuscation –

    Tom R said – “So even tabot admits they wouldn’t stop at illegal activities to further demonise those worst off.” (ie Australian context)
    SB replied – Better than drowning them by the thousand like the ALP did! (ie Australian context)

    Tom R replied – Considering even more are drowning now that the libs are forcing/paying smugglers to carry them back onto the ocean, not sure how anyone can try and run that argument with a straight face. (ie Australian context)

    SB sought to test the assertion – And your evidence for that is????? (referring to Australian context)

    Tom R posted the “evidence” that included – There have been no known asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014.

    Then followed lots of obfuscation about the international situation.

    That’s just not being honest.

  298. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 1:17 pm

    Well Jockey is … apparently … it’s time for a RC on politicians rorting the system … there is the law and the rules and the protocols … but each should have “spirit” behind them …

    WHY would multi-millionaires be in government except to fleece the taxpayers …

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/joe-hockey-claims-1000-a-month-in-travel-allowance-to-sleep-at-his-wifes-house/story-fnu2pwk8-1227397032933

  299. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 2:06 pm

    (referring to Australian context)

    Who said I was limiting it to Australian waters? I very clearly elaborated the reasons behind it, and you still have not supplied ANY sort of an answer to my question of WHERE DID THEY GO.

    And fer nil, it is not just Italy (or the Mediterranean) that saw a spike. It was worldwide, except Australia, where they were very clear to emphasis “known”, as the clearly don’t know.

    We shipped our problem off elsewhere, and, elsewhere, that problem has multiplied.

    Work that one out.

  300. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 14, 2015 2:20 pm

    This isn’t Australian context? – Considering even more are drowning now that the libs are forcing/paying smugglers to carry them back onto the ocean

  301. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 3:42 pm

    This isn’t Australian context?

    Again, for the slow ones.

    Who said I was limiting it to Australian waters?

    Which really was the point of my argument. We pushed them back out, to drown elsewhere. You may think that makes them someone elses problem. I don’t

  302. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 14, 2015 3:44 pm

    No, I think there is plenty to criticise in this government’s policy without inventing stuff.

  303. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 3:54 pm

    Another Tory who live sin Neverland …

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/public-service/dipshit-senior-public-servant-lets-loose-at-bill-heffernan-20150525-gh960b

    Senator Heffernan agreed the agenda “went out the window” during the hearing he chaired in February and gave what some might find a surprising response.

    “I’m disappointed the person couldn’t put their name and phone number,” Senator Heffernan said.

    “I wouldn’t have bitten their head off … historically people who tell me to get knotted, I often ring them … and I would have said ‘what could I do to help?’.”

    Based on Heffernan’s past (lack of) performance I don’t blame the PS staying anonymous – I just hope there was a lot of them waiting … otherwise they will all be targeted for Heffernan’s coming witch hunt … “I wouldn’t have bitten their head off” … not immediately – gotta let suffer a bit first …

  304. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 14, 2015 4:26 pm

    Well if people think negative gearing is bad it will not be abolished by the current crop of pollies.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/labor-mps-cash-in-on-low-interest-rates-and-negative-gearing/story-fni0fiyv-1227396682293

    PROPERTY-owning federal Labor MPs are cashing in on negative gearing to buy more houses and minimise their tax despite warning it is driving up prices.

    As Labor leader Bill Shorten considers a push to limit the generosity of negative gearing for investors, his colleagues are making hay while the ­negative-gearing sun shines.

    According to parliamentary records, their ranks have previously included the Opposition finance spokesman Tony Burke, who had a property portfolio of three units and houses until recently when he sold a unit in Kingston, ACT, where he had stayed when Parliament was sitting.

  305. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 5:12 pm

    lol Interesting headline, with this tucked in at the end

    But the real property barons are among the ranks of the Liberal and National parties

    Of course, making the most of tax arrangement is bad, if you are Labor, but good, if you are Liberal.

    It really is a case of “perspective”, isn’t it.

  306. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 5:14 pm

    I think there is plenty to criticise in this government’s policy without inventing stuff.

    I AGREE!

    So I don’t know why you are making stuff up yomm 😉

  307. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 5:42 pm

    GET RID OF IT! NOW!

    Most people with negatively geared residential property are in the top 40 per cent of income earners and the top two per cent of income earners claim half of all capital gains …

    A costing prepared for the Greens — who are advocating the abolition — by the Parliamentary Budget Office shows getting rid of negative gearing could deliver a cumulative budget saving of $42.5 billion over the decade …

    What is clear is that negative gearing pushes up house prices because it increases the after-tax returns to housing investors, and so prices are higher than they would be otherwise.

    A report from the Australian Financial Review emphasised the need for housing prices to drop, which could happen if negative gearing was abolished.

    Their analysis found that a single buyer in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Canberra needs to be earning more than $100,000 a year to afford an average-priced home. Sydney was the worst of the three, with a single first homebuyer needing to earn a huge $152,000 a year to afford a home near the city.

    Removing the incentive to speculate on house prices is one of the key benefits of the policy change …

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/is-abolishing-negative-gearing-the-answer-to-housing-affordability/story-e6frflo9-1227397083123

  308. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 5:43 pm

    It really is a case of “perspective”, isn’t it.

    Nah! Just the usual Tory cherry pickin’ …

  309. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 14, 2015 6:21 pm

    But the real property barons are among the ranks of the Liberal and National parties

    Yes i saw that. I do read the articles before i post them. But the journalist did not give a list of how many MP’s have rental properties. It just gave the number of rental properties.

    One Coalition guy had 41 properties, another had 18 and Turnbull had 7.

    But i found this interesting about Tony Burke

    Tony Burke, who had a property portfolio of three units and houses until recently when he sold a unit in Kingston, ACT, where he had stayed when Parliament was sitting.

    But the point is abolishing negative gearing is not going to make it through parliament. And how does a man on an MP’s salary manage to get three investment properties?

  310. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 14, 2015 6:28 pm

    Of course, making the most of tax arrangement is bad, if you are Labor, but good, if you are Liberal.

    One point of the article was that it was Labor having a go at Hockey when Tony Burke was doing the same thing.

    It is not illegal but it is not a good look. Perhaps Hockey and Burke should donate the rent money to charity.

  311. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 6:39 pm

    But i found this interesting about Tony Burke

    And how does a man on an MP’s salary manage to get three investment properties?</I?

    DuH!

    One Coalition guy had 41 properties, another had 18 and Turnbull had 7.

    How does a man on PM’s perqs still have to pay off a 20 year mortgage?

    GET RID OF NEGATIVE GEARING! NOW!

  312. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 7:18 pm

    It is not illegal but it is not a good look.

    Yes, and guess who stopped doing it.

  313. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 14, 2015 7:35 pm

    who knows. burke has other properties he could stay at. I suspect people from both sides of politics have been doing the same thing.

    Not illegal but not a good look when people are struggling.

  314. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 14, 2015 9:01 pm

    But you chose to argue “how” Vietnamese refugees arrived rather than say … oh, yes I forgot about WWII and Vietnam … no, you said … it was all Rudd/Gillard … twit!

    Not sure what you are talking about TB but it was all Rudd/Gillards fault. But i forgot to add it was also the fault of the people who voted for them.

    The Howard govt had solved all the problems through trial and error and the Labor party reopened all these problems.

    50,000 illegal arrivals, 1,200 drownings, many more we do not know about and worse thousands of people in UNHCR camps denied places because of country shoppers.

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