Tony Abbott refuses to deny Aus Govt bribed People Smugglers!

Will this result in yabot being forced back to England with his british citezenship?

Indonesia’s foreign minister has asked the Australian government to explain claims it paid people smugglers to return 65 asylum seekers to Indonesian waters, as a local police chief insists the payment occurred.

Fairfax Media is aware of the contents of a detailed official report submitted to the Indonesian National Police in Jakarta, who are now also investigating the incident, and has seen photographs of stacks of $US100 bills allegedly paid to the boat crew.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/indonesian-police-chief-hidayat-confirms-wads-of-cash-paid-to-people-smugglers-20150614-ghn9et

Bribing people smugglers to re-smuggling is just too unethical.

which one is worse?

The one that turns our nation into People Smugglers TB.

The other one already exists, we know Indonesia is pissed at us, and not just because Triggs said so.

So the Australian Navy carries around a stash of cash to hand out to people smugglers?? Is this possible. Then once the smugglers get the money they run off and blab to the Indonesian police about the money they have received.

It is hard to believe this story.

Well maybe Abbott is waiting to get the full story if cash has been paid.

But i think in security matters it is standard policy to never confirm or deny because once confirmed whenever something else comes up you will be asked to confirm or deny again. So people in security generally have a policy of never confirming or denying.

Some of the best navigators in the world with some of the most sophisticated GPS technology and they get lost and not just once …

Comments like that is why i do not trust ALP/Greens supporters. I am not a Naval person but i guess with modern GPS technology they know exactly where they are. To the exact meter. What they do not know however is where the Indonesian border may or not be. There is no marker on the ocean showing where the border is.

Perhaps if the United Nations or some other similar organisation were to put markers in the sea and in the sky it would make things clearer and avoid any unnecessary military conflict

Haven’t you heard of Tydes or Air Currants reb

In fact, it is highly contested amongst scholars of the munkton bent that a Serbian raisin mistaken for a Austro-Hungarian currant was the root cause of The Great War.

nil makes some very good points. Or, perhaps he will soon anyway

Good to see Labor are applying some pressure. Could be an interesting couple of weeks. Will the media be able to remain focused for the duration? My moneys on NOT

The Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has written to the Auditor General asking him to investigate claims that taxpayer money has been used by the Abbott government to fund criminal activities, by paying people smugglers to return asylum seekers to Indonesia.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/labor-calls-for-investigation-into-people-smuggling-payment-claims-20150614-ghnosu.html

Labor have a couple of these kind of ‘requests” languishing that the media forget about, and so, I would assume, do those being requested. Whatever happened about Ashbygate?

Looks like the grubmint will double down on the stoopid

“The best way for Indonesia to resolve any concerns it has about Operation Sovereign Borders is for Indonesia to enforce sovereignty over its borders.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/julie-bishop-tells-jakarta-to-fix-borders/story-fn9hm1gu-1227397718205

Actually, they tried your inhumane idea of forcing the boats back to sea, and realised that they have not sunk that low yet. Paying people smugglers, who according to you pay ISIS, would then definitely fall far below their ability to sink one would think.

It is also worrying that this grubmint is now pleading with Indonesia to do what it has become obvious this grubmint was unable to do, Stop the Boats. Because, if the Boats were stopped, what a re we paying for?

dutton (well, the libs) needs to read this, and then get someone to explain it for him/them.

For starters, leaders of destination countries – whether in Europe, Africa, the Americas, Asia, or Oceania – should not turn their back on the desperate and wretched. For many elected officials, migration poses a complex political dilemma: how to reconcile their citizens’ demands with the interests of migrants. They must find the courage to make the case for a humane migration policy.
Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/human-migration-reality-by-kofi-a-annan-2015-06#DvpIxJ8tPRGedBzQ.99

Oh you mean the one the ALP and its supporters created?

I really don’t think Labor is responsible for the strife we see around the world, do you nil?

and through trial and error found a solution that would not have survived the first high court challenge.

And even now, with policies that make Gengis Khan look moderate, it is obvious the problem hasn’t gone away. As I mentioned on the other thread, all data lends itself to support the opinion that we have really only made it worst, but for other ocuntries.

We still do not know if SievX was sabotaged by the australian govt.

It is comments like that why i could never vote ALP/Greens. Use your brains. If something like that happened somebody would have blown the whistle. For your allegation to be true everybody in Cabinet plus all along the chain of command plus people involved in the sabotage all kept quiet. And since SievX sank all involved in the sabotage have kept the secret. Humans are not that trustworthy. Somebody somewhere would have spoken out.

eleventy flags for the magna carta oi oi oi

Philip Ruddock says paying smugglers costs nothing compared to processing illegal boat arrivals:

But, this is an illegal activity, and not just by our interpretation of the word, it is an international illegal act.

And we have just funded it.

Time for yabot to be shipped back home sans his Australian citizenship

What evidence?

The evidence I showed on the other thread that showed drownings at sea globally have risen since we started pushing people back out onto the oceans.

It does not provide any evidence that Abbott has not stopped the drownings.

It provides no evidence that he has. In fact, it gives every indication that he has simply shipped the problem out of jurisdiction (possibly) and made it worst elsewhere

Only Tom R would figure out that convoluted “logical” connection

I suspect TomR posted a link not realising it did not back up his statement. He is now using verbal gymnastics to say something he never did or something like that. Here is the link again

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/record-number-of-asylum-seeker-deaths-at-sea-in-2014-international-organisation-for-migration-20141217-12903h.html

According to International Organisation for Migration (IOM) figures released this week, the crossing from the Mediterranean to Europe claimed over 3000 lives, while 540 migrants died in the Bay of Bengal. At least 307 died trying to cross the land border between Mexico and the USA. There have been no known asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014

This is supposed to prove something bad about Abbott666. Not sure what however.

just enough weasel words to suggest things without taking responsibility for them.

You mean like “operational matters”? 😉

Neil,

Just read your response to my question, and (as expected) it’s a load of shit.

If Abbott didn’t know, surely the proper response would be something along the lines of ‘not aware of this practice, we’ll be asking the Navy to advise, anyone found to have been giving money to people smugglers will be in a great deal of trouble, etc..’

By now the government should know what happened out there and be in a position to respond appropriately. Their performance to date indicates that they knew it was happening but they just don’t want to come out and admit it. As Reb has pointed out, some have changed from outright denial to refusing to discuss it – might indicate another ‘Captain’s Call’ that has come back to bite them on the arse.

As for it being a ‘security’ matter, well, there’s not much point in keeping a secret that every man and his dog already know about.

And did the link I put up supported that assertion

No.You said more people are drowning because the Libs are forcing people back into the ocean. It was Labor causing the deaths because they encouraged people to come by boats after the problem had been solved.

And neither confirming or denying whether money was paid is the correct response because it would never end the next time something else comes up.

It has been shit since yabot took over,

And 50,000 boat people arriving under Labor and rapidly increasing and costing us $12B to house all these people with thousands drowning making the attempt is not a problem.

This whole problem was created by TB, REb, TomR and anyone else who voted for Rudd in 2007.

It has been shit since yabot took over, and just got worst since.

And this is not shit?

Between January 2011 and February 2013 there were 4,313 incidents of actual, threatened and attempted serious self-harm recorded in immigration detention facilities in Australia.[73] In the 2012–2013 financial year there were 846 incidents of self-harm across the immigration detention network.[74]

Between 1 July 2010 and 20 June 2013, there were 12 deaths in immigration detention facilities. Coroners have found that six of those deaths were suicides.[75]

Welcome to democracy 21st Century … or is that 1984?

1934?

Let’ hope SOMEONE has the guts to push ahead. From my readings elsewhere, no matter who or why, senate estimates should reveal the truth.

And this is not shit?

So nil, are you comfortable with paying people smugglers? Are you comfortable with “by hook or by crook”?

Would be hilarious if Labor used that in QT tomorrow AO

Too funny

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4255471.htm

“The ABC asked the Opposition if it could rule out the possibility that spies like ASIS agents made payments to people smugglers during the Rudd-Gillard years. Its response: it’s unlawful to divulge security or intelligence information.

Wow, big news about old news

Cash payments have been made to members of Indonesian people-smuggling rings by Australian intelligence officials for at least the past four years – including under the former Labor government, Fairfax Media has learnt.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/asylum-boat-turnbacks-australia-paid-people-smugglers-under-former-labor-government-20150615-ghotbt.html

This has been going on since howards days, and it was reported by fairfax back then. The muddying of the waters continue with our msm

Heads up muppets, paying informants to STOP people smugglers is vastly different than paying people smugglers to continue their journey

Will the msm be able to note the difference?

would’ve been pretty deplorable under any circumstances….No?

In a perfect world reb, I’d agree. Do we live in a perfect world.

Where has the OUTRAGE been since this practice has been going on since Howards time

Nevertheless, in private, it had no compunction in employing people like Enniss, who collected a hefty $25,000 from the AFP for spying,

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/10/siev-o21.html

Not that doing what howard was doing I would condone either. But paying smuggler TO smuggle IS vastly different from paying smugglers NOT TO smuggle.

Media beat up?

“Most of the country is happy the boats have stopped. Politically this is damaging for Labor.”

Absolutely the public does not give a flying ratsarse now that the Boats have stopped. The Public have moved on and now the ALP are trying to act hairy chested over it all. How funny.

I really do hope the ALP keep up this strategy because they are just looking stupid giving the electorate a daily reminder about how many Boats arrived and people died on their watch..

Fixed it.

Why, by ignoring the fact that they/we paid people smugglers money to take asylum seekers onto boats to another destination across the waters?

“This mornings clips on my abc breakfastclaptrap has been interesting, …….”

Teabag there is nothing all that new in a “Deal” being made. We already knew that was in the mix from that night. It seems to me that the Grub Julia simply agreed on a Deal at first even perhaps a handshake with Rudd then spoke to others afterward and they changed her mind back to “No Deal”.

Seriously she must be pretty fucking stupid if she thought the Deal would mean anything. Rudd would have used the extra time to publicly destroy her in any manner he could by the end of the Deal time limit.

Without having a crystal ball at hand that I’m sure is what her backers would have told and then they would have said ………….

“Listen you idiot, go march back to his Office and tell him the Deal is off”

The two party bipartisan approach to so many human rights issues is really playing into the hands of parties like the Greens …

This is the same Greens who voted down the Malaysian solution, and helped us to where we are now?

When it comes to asylum seekers, they are all shit house, some are just more shit house than others

So the media had us all running round and round in circles.

So the media had us all running round and round in circles.

another day in the trenches

Time for members to revolt!

I AGREE!

The one Union the Royal witch hunt doesn’t attack, is the one found making life worst for members. It says much about the Witch hunt imo

ROFL

Stopping the boats has improved Australia’s relations with Indonesia, Prime Minister Tony Abbott claimed on Tuesday.

This is despite an escalation of diplomatic tensions between the two countries over claims Australian officials paid people smuggling crews to turn back boats carrying asylum seekers and return to Indonesia.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/stopping-the-boats-has-improved-australias-relationship-with-indonesia-tony-abbott-20150616-ghotw3

This is despite reality ROFL

nothing is made about the fact that the drowning dangers are simply moved elsewhere.

HERESY!

evidence about the confidential deeds was heard last year by the Royal Commission

I think they meant to say “allegations” 😉

“”…………..nothing is made about the fact that the drowning dangers are simply moved elsewhere. ”

What like in TomR silly example of the Med ?

If you follow the way TomR’s logic works you would have to conclude that Wilbur and Orville Wright were ultimately responsible for the destruction of the New York World Trade Towers

in an actual society with limited government.

You mean one where there are no regulations around say, installing pink batts?

I just paid a visit to the Guardian and boy do the lefties hate Abbott. I thought the hatred against Howard was bad but lefties have taken the hatred up a notch with Abbott.

The unjust thing is that this people smuggler problem was solved under Howard. The people smugglers were put back into business by the ALP/Greens. 50,000 people passed through Indonesia and people smugglers got hundreds of millions of dollars because TomR, TB,AO, Reb, Toilet, Walrus, SB et al voted for Rudd.

this people smuggler problem was solved under Howard.

Yet still, they come………

I used to be ridiculed for saying I vote informal** because I was dissatisfied with the 2 parties. But it seems that this is becoming a popular option.

(**note – I voted ALP at the last federal election)

I used to be ridiculed for saying I vote informal

Actually yomm, you were ridiculed for a lot of things

#justsayin 😉

There is no ‘problem’ since Abbott stopped the drownings

hmm, then why have drownings increased across the globe since yabot started paying people smugglers to smuggle people back across the globe?

“50,000 people passed through Indonesia and people smugglers got hundreds of millions of dollars because TomR, TB,AO, Reb, Toilet, Walrus, SB et al voted for Rudd.”

I swear I’m gonna hunt you down if you keep reminding me.

If you see a really tall ugly and angry looking 50 something bloke pull up outside your place in a black Lexus ……………………………..Hide

🙂

hmm, then why have drownings increased across the globe since yabot started paying people smugglers to smuggle people back across the globe?

Now TomR not only has Abbott drowning thousands of people just off the coast of Italy he is also responsible for the worldwide people smugglers.

TomR the world has not changed. John Howard solved the problem in our region. Your vote in 2007 restarted the trade.

Thanks for the laugh TB.

“……..ah, a civvie again and driving my family around in a 360cc Scamp ……”

Liar

This would have been your first car

you are a murderer neil.

Really?? I didn’t encourage Reza Berati to come here so he could get a job as an architect. It was the ALP/Greens who encouraged him to come and it was the ALP/Greens who locked him up.

“This policy is actually saving lives.”

Which is why they dont like it.

They need trophy drownings.

But let them hammer the subject as much as they like. It simply reminds the voters of how pathetic their own border policy was.

Like I said “Bullshit Bill” chooses his words carefully……….

Was there a difference between the Coalition paying people smugglers on the water and Labor paying out on the land, he was asked?

“I’m not using the land-sea distinction. I am saying Labor has never paid people smugglers to turn back boats as it appears the Government has done,”

This policy is actually saving lives.

You have no proof of that. We have no idea what is happening out there. All we know, is that drownings are up world-wide. Purely co-incidental I guess.

Although, we do know that three people are dead not by their hand AFTER being dealt with by grubmint officials.

Carefully chosen words by Zombie Bill

Why won’t yabot repeat them then?

I notice Labor supporters are now calling people smugglers, scum.

They used to say people smugglers should be given a medal by rescuing asylum seekers from certain death.

Play the game expect the shame!

Not sure what you are talking about. Our humanitarian program is for people fleeing from persecution. Raza Berati could not get a job in Iran so wanted to practise his profession in Australia.

If Berati wanted to migrate to Australia we have other programs for skilled immigrants.

It was your govt TB, who encouraged Berati to come by boat to Australia and locked him up.

Nobody is being locked up by the Coalition any more. You TB are responsible for encouraging 50,000 people to come here by boat, $12B housing all these people, 1,200 drownings that we know of and most probably thousands we do not know about but worse, tens of thousands of desperate people in UNHCR camps who we would have taken under Howard were denied places in Australia.

Other than destroying the lives of people why do you exist?

if China’s communism is so bad … why do we not see more refugees/asylum seekers from there?

We do. They come by plane. Most come on a student visa.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-15/chinese-fly-into-australia-to-make-27dodgy27-asylum-claims/3892416

Last year more than 6,000 asylum seekers arrived by air. The largest group by far came from China, with much smaller numbers flying in from India and other south east Asian countries.

With the help of dubious migration agents they pose as persecuted Falun Gong practitioners or underground Christian worshippers.

Once again Rudd comes across as more intelligent, decent and capable than Gillard

…she would become very attuned to a perception that she is “a burden”

… most of us won’t be affected …

I guess it depends on what you consider “most”

It cited modelling from Industry Super Australia that found the cuts would affect half of all workers due to retire in the next decade — more than a million people — including almost 330,000 part-pensioners who would feel the cuts immediately.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-16/budget-opposition-will-not-support-pension-changes/6549538

or

“The Coalition’s pension changes will hit the middle class and leave upper class welfare unchecked, writes Sally Patten.”

“Very wealthy people are not hurt at all because they are not on the age pension,” adds David Knox, a partner at Mercer, a pensions and superannuation consultancy.”

http://www.afr.com/personal-finance/superannuation-and-smsfs/how-the-pension-changes-hit-the-middle-class-20150522-gh6iov

The Greens have been sold a pup. Then again, Labor have made more than enough unholy deals with this mob also.

“The Abbott government’s proposed pension changes could be construed as making much-needed cuts to middle-class welfare.

Isn’t that what you lefties said should be done?

I truly hope this is the media being dicks again.

The West Australian understands Labor is preparing to harden its stance on asylum seekers significantly amid fears the coalition is gearing up to paint the Opposition as soft on border security for the poll.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/national/a/28477098/labor-to-turn-back-boats/

I guess the very rich don’t get a pension so there is nothing to cut.

But they still receive massive entitlements, which the libs, and now the Greens, will leave untouched.

“I suspect you bleed this country of welfare that you really have never earned or don’t deserve, you’re bitter and a very nasty neighbour and person … quite the opposite of Reza Berati …….”

And how the f**k would you know what Reza Berati was like ?

Back to the crystal ball gazing again.

And as far as solar energy is concerned only a true fucktard would deny they are subsidised by other taxpayers…………………..oh yes……..I just realised who I was directing this at

As far as Welfare is concerned you got some nerve. You get on here and bleat about how wonderful you are being a self funded retiree and later start talking about pension changes not affecting you. Clearly you are not fully SFR.

So stop claiming to be one.

YES ……………………I FEEL BETTER NOW !

Yes ToSy the Church of Climatology has as its crucifix a Windmill sitting at the top of a hill.

LOL

Tanya P……………………….a special kind of crazy resides in her skull