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Tony Abbott refuses to deny Aus Govt bribed People Smugglers!

June 13, 2015

2000

An international law expert says that the Abbott Govt could be accused of people smuggling if it is proven they paid the crew of an asylum-seeker boat to return to Indonesia.

On Friday, shocking allegations emerged that Australian Navy personnel handed wads of cash totalling $US30,000 to six crew members who were transporting 65 asylum seekers on the condition that they returned to Indonesian waters.

Australia’s Prime Minister Tony Abbott, did not deny the claims when asked about the allegations on Friday.

Professor of international law at the Australian National University, Don Rothwell, says if proven the activity could be tantamount to “people smuggling” under current regional protocols.

“People smuggling is defined with the protocol and to that end the provision of monies to people who are engaged in people-smuggling activities to take persons from a place on the high seas to another place, such as Indonesia, is clearly a people smuggling-type activity,” he told The Gutter Trash.

He said the claims also raised questions because Australia was a party to the 2000 protocol to disrupt people smuggling.

Rothwell said a lot would depend on how Australia’s regional partners responded to the allegations.

The Indonesian government appeared to be taking them seriously, he said.

“We’ll no doubt hear from Indonesia in the future about this.”

Abbott did not deny the allegations in a radio interview and said that officials were being “incredibly creative” in adhering to the Govt’s policy to turn back boats.

“What we do is stop the boats by hook or by crook,” Abbott said.

“We have stopped the trade and we will do what we have to do to ensure that it stays stopped.”

He repeatedly declined to confirm whether Australia was investigating the claims.

The finance minister Mathias Cormann said the allegation was “not an accurate reflection” of what was happening.

“The prime minister has essentially stuck to his very long-standing practice of not to provide a running commentary on operational matters,” he said.

“He didn’t confirm or deny, he didn’t make comment one way or the other. He certainly didn’t indicate that payments have been made.”

Labor has called on Abbott to emphatically deny Customs paid people smugglers to turn back asylum seeker boats.

The opposition immigration spokesman Richard Marles said Abbott’s refusal to deny the practice had left the door wide open to the idea the government was handing wads of taxpayer’s cash to smugglers.

“Really it leaves one with the only possible assumption that that may well have been exactly what happened.”

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302 Comments leave one →
  1. In_the_sticks permalink
    June 13, 2015 3:56 pm

    Just another Tony Abbott clusterfuck – can anyone point to an issue that our current government has handled consistently well since they took office ?? Even those issues that they don’t immediately fuck up seem to go to pieces down the track.

  2. TB Queensland permalink
    June 13, 2015 5:08 pm

    The finance minister Mathias Cormann said the allegation was “not an accurate reflection” of what was happening.

    So what IS the accurate reflection … Matti?

    But, but, but … the opposition leader arranged to have union dues deducted 20 years ago!

    Well said, Its! And welcome …

  3. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 7:55 pm

    Will we be seeing a “smugglers” levy introduced soon to pay for our grubmints ongoing financial support of ISIS?

  4. Tom R permalink
    June 13, 2015 8:00 pm

  5. June 13, 2015 8:10 pm

    “paid off” “bribed” “people smugglers”

    Never fear, Triggs is here. She’ll beat up any anti-Abbott twitter meme give this due consideration.

  6. June 14, 2015 12:18 am

    Shit, we are only burning $470,00 per-head to bastardize boat-people in gulags, under the banner of putting `smugglers` out of business. Now we have floating cash-machines handing-out $40,000 to keep `smugglers` in business.

    +

    ””What we do is stop the boats by hook or by crook,` Abbott said.””

    #l`d suggest mr-rabbit is more `crook` than `hook` and the `smugglers` will be quite happy to make gilligan runs out to the floating cash-machines. #3.hour.tour

    +

    ””””Abbott did not deny the allegations in a radio interview and said that officials were being `incredibly.creative` in adhering to the Govt`s policy to turn back boats.””””

    #now let`s see if blib has enough brains to club mr-rabbit about the head with this

  7. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:06 am

    yays, we’re famous internationally again.

    Australian authorities paid smugglers to turn back a boat transporting migrants attempting to reach that nation, the United Nations refugee agency said Friday, citing people on the ship.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/12/asia/australia-smuggling-payment-claims/index.html

  8. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:14 am

    Will this result in yabot being forced back to England with his british citezenship?

    Indonesia’s foreign minister has asked the Australian government to explain claims it paid people smugglers to return 65 asylum seekers to Indonesian waters, as a local police chief insists the payment occurred.

    Fairfax Media is aware of the contents of a detailed official report submitted to the Indonesian National Police in Jakarta, who are now also investigating the incident, and has seen photographs of stacks of $US100 bills allegedly paid to the boat crew.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/indonesian-police-chief-hidayat-confirms-wads-of-cash-paid-to-people-smugglers-20150614-ghn9et

  9. June 14, 2015 10:22 am
  10. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:32 am

    Watch the flip flopping now … this government is a dying fish and breathing its last – hopefully …

    Vindictive, deceitful, dishonest, incompetent … I actually thought John Howard & The Private School Bullies were bad … but this lot should be wandering around in brown shirts …

  11. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:40 am

    I do hope Labor get the boots out on this. They should.

    SYDNEY, Australia — Australian opposition lawmakers said Saturday that they would press Prime Minister Tony Abbott to reveal whether the government paid smugglers to turn a boat full of migrants back to Indonesia after intercepting it at sea.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/world/asia/australia-tony-abbott-pressed-on-smugglers-paid-to-turn-back.html

    We are becoming an international pariah (or, even more so)

  12. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:53 am

    Bribing people smugglers to re-smuggling is just too unethical.

  13. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:53 am

    As far as I can tell, there are two options here.

    Australia is lying, or Indonesia is lying.

    If we are lying, then WE ARE People Smugglers, and this grubmint should be locked up for putting us in that position.

    If Indonesia is lying, then Triggs was more accurate than I think even she could have foreseen.

  14. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 11:14 am

    Neither option is a good look, TR … which one is worse?

  15. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 2:07 pm

    which one is worse?

    The one that turns our nation into People Smugglers TB.

    The other one already exists, we know Indonesia is pissed at us, and not just because Triggs said so.

  16. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 3:40 pm

    This story was published: 28 minutes ago June 14, 2015 3:11PM

    TONY Abbott has again refused to say whether or not people smugglers were paid to turn back asylum seeker boats.

    “THERE is really only one thing to say here and that is we have stopped the boats, that’s good for Australia, it’s good for Indonesia and it’s particularly good for all of those who want to see a better world,” the prime minister told reporters in Canberra on Sunday.
    Labor, the Greens and Indonesia are demanding an answer to the claims that smugglers were paid thousands of dollars to turn their boats back to Indonesia.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/06/13/tony-abbott-refuses-to-deny-aus-govt-bribed-people-smugglers/#comment-107047

  17. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 7:19 pm

  18. Tom R permalink
    June 14, 2015 7:29 pm

  19. June 14, 2015 7:37 pm

    “we know Indonesia is pissed at us, and not just because Triggs said so”

    Ooooh, scary.

    Hey, wait! Aren’t we supposed to pissed at Indonesia? Didn’t we recently withdraw our ambassador? What was it, some executions or other?

  20. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 14, 2015 7:45 pm

    So the Australian Navy carries around a stash of cash to hand out to people smugglers?? Is this possible. Then once the smugglers get the money they run off and blab to the Indonesian police about the money they have received.

    It is hard to believe this story.

  21. In_the_sticks permalink
    June 14, 2015 8:22 pm

    Neil

    If it is untrue, then do you have any thoughts on why the Prime Minister would refuse to deny the claim after being given multiple opportunities to do so ?? Particularly when the failure to deny it reflects so poorly on him and the rest of the government ?

    Had he done so, we’d have a very different situation here – it is the lack of outright denial that have really fanned the flames under this issue.

  22. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 14, 2015 8:57 pm

    Well maybe Abbott is waiting to get the full story if cash has been paid.

    But i think in security matters it is standard policy to never confirm or deny because once confirmed whenever something else comes up you will be asked to confirm or deny again. So people in security generally have a policy of never confirming or denying.

  23. TB Queensland permalink
    June 14, 2015 9:55 pm

    Is this the same navy that got “lost” inside Indonesian waters?

    Some of the best navigators in the world with some of the most sophisticated GPS technology and they get lost and not just once …

    … timing is everything — the then “new” government had to stop the boats at all costs … and it continues today … “by hook or by crook”, according to the head crook, er, cook …

  24. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 14, 2015 10:09 pm

    Some of the best navigators in the world with some of the most sophisticated GPS technology and they get lost and not just once …

    Comments like that is why i do not trust ALP/Greens supporters. I am not a Naval person but i guess with modern GPS technology they know exactly where they are. To the exact meter. What they do not know however is where the Indonesian border may or not be. There is no marker on the ocean showing where the border is.

  25. June 15, 2015 7:25 am

    ” To the exact meter. “

    I think you mean “metre.”

    “There is no marker on the ocean showing where the border is.”

    That’s a very good point Neil. I wonder how the airforce works out where it is too. Perhaps if the United Nations or some other similar organisation were to put markers in the sea and in the sky it would make things clearer and avoid any unnecessary military conflict. I wonder why no one has thought of this before.

  26. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:48 am

    Perhaps if the United Nations or some other similar organisation were to put markers in the sea and in the sky it would make things clearer and avoid any unnecessary military conflict

    Haven’t you heard of Tydes or Air Currants reb

    In fact, it is highly contested amongst scholars of the munkton bent that a Serbian raisin mistaken for a Austro-Hungarian currant was the root cause of The Great War.

    nil makes some very good points. Or, perhaps he will soon anyway

  27. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:49 am

    I wonder why no one has thought of this before.

    Isn’t there currently an ongoing “War on Drugs”?

  28. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:56 am

    Good to see Labor are applying some pressure. Could be an interesting couple of weeks. Will the media be able to remain focused for the duration? My moneys on NOT

    The Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has written to the Auditor General asking him to investigate claims that taxpayer money has been used by the Abbott government to fund criminal activities, by paying people smugglers to return asylum seekers to Indonesia.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/labor-calls-for-investigation-into-people-smuggling-payment-claims-20150614-ghnosu.html

    Labor have a couple of these kind of ‘requests” languishing that the media forget about, and so, I would assume, do those being requested. Whatever happened about Ashbygate?

  29. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:57 am

  30. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 8:40 am

    Looks like the grubmint will double down on the stoopid

    “The best way for Indonesia to resolve any concerns it has about Operation Sovereign Borders is for Indonesia to enforce sovereignty over its borders.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/julie-bishop-tells-jakarta-to-fix-borders/story-fn9hm1gu-1227397718205

    Actually, they tried your inhumane idea of forcing the boats back to sea, and realised that they have not sunk that low yet. Paying people smugglers, who according to you pay ISIS, would then definitely fall far below their ability to sink one would think.

    It is also worrying that this grubmint is now pleading with Indonesia to do what it has become obvious this grubmint was unable to do, Stop the Boats. Because, if the Boats were stopped, what a re we paying for?

    dutton (well, the libs) needs to read this, and then get someone to explain it for him/them.

    For starters, leaders of destination countries – whether in Europe, Africa, the Americas, Asia, or Oceania – should not turn their back on the desperate and wretched. For many elected officials, migration poses a complex political dilemma: how to reconcile their citizens’ demands with the interests of migrants. They must find the courage to make the case for a humane migration policy.
    Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/human-migration-reality-by-kofi-a-annan-2015-06#DvpIxJ8tPRGedBzQ.99

  31. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 15, 2015 9:29 am

    Leave it to @MikeCarlton01 to put so eloquently, the mess this government has put the country in! #AusPol

    What mess?? Oh you mean the one the ALP and its supporters created? Well the Libs are trying to clean it up.

    Under Labor we got 50,000 boat people and rapidly increasing, 1,200 drownings we know of and most probably 5 times that, spent $12B housing the 50,000 people and worse we had thousands of people stuck in UNHCR camps who we would normally have taken if the economic refugees with $10,000 had not shown up.

    Anybody who voted for Rudd in 2007 is responsible for the mess.

  32. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 9:37 am

    Oh you mean the one the ALP and its supporters created?

    I really don’t think Labor is responsible for the strife we see around the world, do you nil?

  33. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 15, 2015 9:49 am

    I was talking about Australia. John Howard was faced with the same problems and through trial and error found a solution which in a burst of moral superiority the ALP dismantled.

  34. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 9:53 am

    and through trial and error found a solution that would not have survived the first high court challenge.

    And even now, with policies that make Gengis Khan look moderate, it is obvious the problem hasn’t gone away. As I mentioned on the other thread, all data lends itself to support the opinion that we have really only made it worst, but for other ocuntries.

  35. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 10:24 am

    There is no marker on the ocean showing where the border is.

    incredible stuff, it’s a wonder you can find your way home each day!

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/tony-abbotts-tangled-web-over-paying-people-smugglers-20150614-ghnqh8.html

    …”Tony Abbott must have concluded that voters will accept anything” Has that conclusion so far not been vindicated ? He and the government surfed into office on an avalanche of hornswoggle. Why would they not continue with what has worked for them thus far ?
    Cracks in the facade ? One’s incompetence or megalomania is showing ? No problem ! Unfurl flags, don tinfoil hat, drop into redneck radio, shout, scream and shriek: emergency! emergency! emergency! boats! boats! boats!, terror! terror! terror!, stand to ! , action stations !, enemy at the gates !, enemy on the beaches ! , leaners !, double dippers ! windmills ! Musnt can’t, won’t discuss operational matters of Operation Overblown Hysteria.
    All the Tweedle Dums will line up behind the Tweedle Dees with mum’s best cookware atop their bonces and stand by the phone waiting for the call … from the pollsters. Numbers duly sorted you can square gait your way back into cabinet and see off the enemies within by announcing that you’ve fixed it; high morale, high readiness and full support for the mission everywhere.
    Commenterdavros Location Date and time June 15, 2015, 8:32AM…

    I was talking about Australia. John Howard was faced with the same problems and through trial and error found a solution which in a burst of moral superiority the ALP dismantled…

    Trial and error? Straight out sabotage and bribery actually. Howard used the same devious and illegal methods, he also paid the people smugglers. We still do not know if SievX was sabotaged by the australian govt. Abbott & co are simply carrying on business straight out of the coalition handbook.

    http://sievx.com/articles/challenging/20020929SundayPeopleSmuggling.html

    …SENATOR RAY: I’ve read the tirade from the commissioner of police, who cannot understand the subtlety of what Senator Faulkner said in the last three speeches; he just completely misinterpreted it for his own purposes. If ever I have seen an evasive witness, it was him at the estimates and at the certain maritime incident inquiry.

    Why doesn’t he front up and give straightforward evidence? Why have all these officials got such selective memories or a lack of intellectual rigour that would force them to go and probe certain issues that they should be pursuing if they hold responsible jobs? I cannot understand that… We are not saying that the government is involved in a policy that says go out and sink boats, but if you have been funding some lousy stinking people smuggler to the tune of 25 grand I would want to know what he was doing. And this government should want to know but they don’t want to know. They don’t want to investigate this.

    JIM WALEY: Ross Coulthart reporting there and the Federal Police are still refusing to answer the 37 questions we’ve put to them on this issue or even to provide us with a copy of their investigation into our original report. Quite remarkable…

  36. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 10:26 am

    nil makes some very good points. Or, perhaps he will soon anyway

    What can I say … I actually thought he had graduated left high school last year … maybe he was kept back?

  37. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 10:33 am

    Howard used the same devious and illegal methods, he also paid the people smugglers.

    And got away with it! And so it continues … brown shirt mentality …

  38. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 15, 2015 10:53 am

    We still do not know if SievX was sabotaged by the australian govt.

    It is comments like that why i could never vote ALP/Greens. Use your brains. If something like that happened somebody would have blown the whistle. For your allegation to be true everybody in Cabinet plus all along the chain of command plus people involved in the sabotage all kept quiet. And since SievX sank all involved in the sabotage have kept the secret. Humans are not that trustworthy. Somebody somewhere would have spoken out.

  39. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 15, 2015 11:02 am

    The government should not discuss the details of their tactics against the people smugglers. What counts is that they have stopped the drownings and for that they will never be forgiven, especially by the murderous ALP scum who caused the drownings (and will likely do so again, given the chance).

  40. June 15, 2015 11:12 am
  41. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 15, 2015 11:16 am

    Politicians going after public servants – absolutely shameful:

    SENATOR RAY: I’ve read the tirade from the commissioner of police, who cannot understand the subtlety of what Senator Faulkner said in the last three speeches; he just completely misinterpreted it for his own purposes. If ever I have seen an evasive witness, it was him at the estimates and at the certain maritime incident inquiry.

    “We still do not know if SievX was sabotaged by the australian govt.”

    Apart from the fact that there is no evidence to support that conspiracy theory, it is no surprise to see the idiot left get worked up about a baseless conspiracy theory while supporting policies which actually drowned people by the thousand.

  42. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 11:19 am

    Outcomes at any cost … sound very hysterical historical to me …

    Noice to see we still give people a fair go … 100 Year Anniversary of what exactly?

  43. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 11:26 am

    … while supporting policies which actually drowned people by the thousand.

    Long bows …

    Maybe we should blame the Howard government for thousands of lives lost in Iraq and Afghanistan …

    … or Holt & Fraser for the lives lost in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos …

    … all these wars gleefully joined by Liberal governments with shonky military intelligence but fearful ideology …

    … and the current Abbott government’s burning desire to turn back the Daesh hordes as they swarm into Canberra … supposedly …

  44. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 11:39 am

    And they are still screwing the vulnerable over …

    TREASURER Joe Hockey has been awarded the golden toilet brush by Parliament House cleaners angry over pay and conditions.

    THE cleaners have walked off the job for 24 hours from 6.30am on Monday, protesting a federal government decision to abolish Commonwealth Cleaning Services guidelines.
    Their union claims the decision has cost cleaners in commonwealth buildings about $6800 a year.,blockquote>

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/angry-cleaners-protest-at-parliament/story-e6frfku9-1227398062305

  45. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 11:42 am

    Please, please NO! Although as my business mentor used to say, “if we import their Coke” …

    LABOR senator Sam Dastyari says the commission is nothing more than an $80 million political witch hunt by the government.

    “What we’re starting to see is the Americanisation of Australian politics where you start using the judiciary and these kinds of processes to smear and attack political opponents,” he told reporters in Canberra on Monday.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/govt-americanising-aust-politics-labor/story-e6frfku9-1227398104543

  46. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 12:03 pm

    If something like that happened somebody would have blown the whistle.

    Kevin John Enniss
    http://sievx.com/articles/challenging/20020901_SundayEnniss.html

    Our government celebrates the 800th anniversary of the magna carta while doing everything in it’s power to destroy what it stands for.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2015/jun/15/labor-maintains-an-election-winning-lead-in-ipsos-poll-politics-live#block-557dfb25e4b07c61f71d1d51

    …The QTB poses this question: “Why should this power be exercised by a minister and not the courts?” – and then it provides the following answer: “A law requiring a terrorist conviction would be toothless.” (Toothless? Wut?)…

    …A tiny bit more from that Probyn QTB on toothlessness and citizenship stripping.

    In many cases law enforcement agencies will know an Australian has been fighting with terrorist groups but will be unable to present sufficient eligible evidence to secure a conviction.
    So if we boil down the government rationale, it’s this: we need the power to strip dual nationals of their citizenship, and we need the executive to have that power, because we won’t be able to get a result in the courts.

    I’d say happy 800th Magna Carta but it’s too early to be gratuitous…

    …The foreign minister’s interview with the Australian this morning tells us the government would like us to be talking about how this is all Indonesia’s doing because Jakarta just won’t stop the boats – but the only people who will be talking about that will be the government. The rest of us will stick with question one. The Daily Telegraph suggests Asis might be behind the alleged payments to people smugglers. Not that we talk about that agency…

  47. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 12:03 pm

    There’s no legal queue. And three other facts Australians get wrong about asylum seekers
    Robert Tickner:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/15/theres-no-legal-queue-and-three-other-facts-australians-get-wrong-about-asylum-seekers

  48. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 12:27 pm

    eleventy flags for the magna carta oi oi oi

  49. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 12:35 pm

    Anyway, it doesn’t matter if australia did or didn’t pay people smugglers to traffic, it’s cheaper than processing them!

    Never mind that the vessel was in international waters and en route to NZ when intercepted by us.

    It’s a hideous trade, but one that we are happy to participate in, apparently.

    And, most importantly, it’s all Indonesia’s fault!

    Philip Ruddock says paying smugglers costs nothing compared to processing illegal boat arrivals:
    http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/philip-ruddock-says-paying-smugglers-costs-nothing-compared-to-processing-illegal-boat-arrivals/story-fns0jze1-1227398030827

    …Tony Abbott is coming under increasing criticism over the incident, with Indonesia said to be furious over the matter…

    “The amount of money that was allegedly paid is nothing in comparison to the cost of processing the excessive amount of people who came to Australia as a result of people smuggling activity.”…

  50. June 15, 2015 12:37 pm

    The Greens have written to the AFP asking them to investigate if any payments have been made to crews of boats carrying asylum seekers – and if so what laws have been violated.

    An order to produce documents motion will also be moved in the Senate today for the government to release all documents relating to any payments made.

    Greens senator Sarah Hanson Young:

    “”Paying cash bribes to boat crews amounts to people trafficking. The government does not have a mandate to break the law or a blank cheque to allow handing over wads of cash in the middle of the ocean.””

  51. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 12:47 pm

  52. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 12:53 pm

    Philip Ruddock says paying smugglers costs nothing compared to processing illegal boat arrivals:

    But, this is an illegal activity, and not just by our interpretation of the word, it is an international illegal act.

    And we have just funded it.

    Time for yabot to be shipped back home sans his Australian citizenship

  53. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 12:55 pm

  54. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 12:56 pm

  55. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:00 pm

    Because the Greens and Labour know how to shut down people smuggling.

  56. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:01 pm

    Australian Parliament should learn from the Congress on Transpacific Partnership Agreement
    http://media-senatorwhish-wilson.cmail1.com/t/ViewEmail/t/EA444ABBCA1C3CBE/00275313C05C5D5DF6A1C87C670A6B9F

    …Greens spokesperson for Trade, Senator Peter Whish-Wilson welcomes today’s failure of President Obama’s Fast-Track legislative package through Congress today and highlights the fierce debate that is occurring right now in the United States over the worth of the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement.

    Senator Whish Wilson said, “If President Obama can’t get the Leader of his own party in the Congress, Nancy Pelosi, nor a majority of Democrats to support him on the TPP it really must be a terrible trade deal.

    “While this legislative defeat for Fast-Track does not yet mean the TPP is dead, it does mean it is limping towards oblivion.

    “But what this heated US debate does highlight is the dismal lack of parliamentary oversight in Australia in how we as a nation negotiate and evaluate these deals…

  57. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:10 pm

    By hook or pay crook, they stopped the boats:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-15/pobjie-by-hook-or-pay-crook-they-stopped-the-boats/6545604

    …The budget deficit, for example. Who knows what gains in revenue could be made if we began paying businesses to make bigger profits, and paying individuals to pay more tax? Or climate change – if not possible to actually pay the climate not to change, we could at least pay people to move to higher ground, or even simpler, just pay environmentalists to shut up. We could solve the ice epidemic by paying ice dealers to stop dealing ice. We could end poverty by paying poor people not to be poor. We could solve the housing affordability crisis by paying property developers to sell houses for less money. We could fix the education system by paying children to stop cluttering up the schools. In fact, you show me a social problem, and I will show you a wallet with the solution.

    A bit of acknowledgment, please, for a Government that not only knows how to get the job done, but allegedly does so without deviating from that greatest of all Western traditions: throwing money at things until they go away…

  58. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:20 pm

    Paying off people smugglers: Is Abbott dealing with the devil?
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-12/burnside-paying-off-the-people-smugglers/6541888

    …This goes further than hypocrisy. Tony Abbott’s primary justification for condemning people smugglers is that they cause deaths. Yet it appears he is willing to pay the people smugglers to take their passengers even further, writes Julian Burnside…

    …Part of the united rhetoric of the Coalition and Labor is to condemn people smugglers. Both sides of politics describe people smugglers as “evil” and as “the scum of the earth”…

    …If the Coalition are genuine in their judgment of people smugglers, it would be a very strange thing to do business with them…

    …Abbott’s contempt for people smugglers is hardly a secret. It is an act of the basest hypocrisy that he would allow his Government to pay them anything at all for any service at all…

  59. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:22 pm

    Lots of comments on a story where nobody has all the facts.

  60. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:23 pm

    Pobjie is neither funny nor incisive. The short answer is “look at the scoreboard.” One thing is clear from that – Abbott should not take advice from ALP/Greens about stopping the drownings. He has already done that. And those responsible for the drownings in the first place will never forgive him.

  61. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:38 pm

    Lots of comments on a story where nobody has all the facts.

    Why will they not confirm that they are not paying people smugglers?

    He has already done that.

    You cannot prove that. Evidence suggest otherwise.

  62. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:44 pm

    What evidence?

  63. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:49 pm

    yep, I agree, we need a BoR now more then ever. It just can’t come fast enough. Our rights and freedoms should never be held hostage to the whims of the government of the day.

  64. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:51 pm

    What evidence?

    The evidence I showed on the other thread that showed drownings at sea globally have risen since we started pushing people back out onto the oceans.

  65. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 1:54 pm

    Yea, what would Triggs know.

    President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo has finally signed a new Presidential Regulation that would make a policy to waive visa fees for 30 countries official, despite an immigration law stipulating that visa exemptions could only be made on a reciprocal basis.
    ………
    New Zealand is also on the list, but not its close neighbor Australia, whose relationship with Indonesia has recently deteriorated following the executions of two Australian drug convicts.

    See more at: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/06/13/jokowi-signs-visa-fee-exemptions.html#sthash.TGmfasI3.dpuf

  66. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 15, 2015 2:01 pm

    “The evidence I showed on the other thread that showed drownings at sea globally have risen since we started pushing people back out onto the oceans.”

    That link is evidence only of your own stupidity. It does not provide any evidence that Abbott has not stopped the drownings.

  67. June 15, 2015 2:21 pm
  68. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 2:21 pm

    It does not provide any evidence that Abbott has not stopped the drownings.

    It provides no evidence that he has. In fact, it gives every indication that he has simply shipped the problem out of jurisdiction (possibly) and made it worst elsewhere

  69. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 2:22 pm

  70. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 2:24 pm

    Is the Magna Carta even mentioned in The Australian Constitution? Just checked … no …

  71. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 15, 2015 2:28 pm

    Oh dear.

    Tom R regards the statement (that he posted) of “no evidence of deaths” as “evidence of deaths”

    Only Tom R would figure out that convoluted “logical” connection

  72. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 15, 2015 2:40 pm

    So now we watch this pathetic beat-up roll out in slow motion. Let’s see who can make the most pathetically overblown statement today.

  73. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 2:42 pm

    Only Tom R would figure out that convoluted “logical” connection

    I did say it “suggests” it, not proves it, s proof, in this new era of “operational matters” is impossible to come by

  74. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 15, 2015 2:45 pm

    Only Tom R would figure out that convoluted “logical” connection

    I suspect TomR posted a link not realising it did not back up his statement. He is now using verbal gymnastics to say something he never did or something like that. Here is the link again

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/record-number-of-asylum-seeker-deaths-at-sea-in-2014-international-organisation-for-migration-20141217-12903h.html

    According to International Organisation for Migration (IOM) figures released this week, the crossing from the Mediterranean to Europe claimed over 3000 lives, while 540 migrants died in the Bay of Bengal. At least 307 died trying to cross the land border between Mexico and the USA. There have been no known asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014

    This is supposed to prove something bad about Abbott666. Not sure what however.

  75. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 2:48 pm

    Let’s see who can make the most pathetically overblown statement today.

    So far my moneys on bishop

    This matter is now going to intelligence, security and operational matters and in accordance with the long standing practice of both sides of government, I will not answer the question.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2015/jun/15/labor-maintains-an-election-winning-lead-in-ipsos-poll-politics-live#block-557e54e6e4b0e706bc8bdf93

  76. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 3:19 pm

    So now we watch this pathetic beat-up roll out in slow motion.

    Beat up?

    The question is simple … did you pay money to people smugglers? Simples .. ckk …

    You could imagine Abbott as a kid … did you threaten Tommy for his lunch money? … well, the real question is whether Tommy had lunch?

    And since when was a refugee an intelligence, security or operational risk while in custody?

    Now that’s a crock beat up!

  77. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 3:22 pm

    This is supposed to prove something bad about Abbott666

    …Tony A666tt works …

  78. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 15, 2015 3:29 pm

    “I did say it “suggests” it, not proves it,”

    Reading Tom R is like reading Chomsky – just enough weasel words to suggest things without taking responsibility for them. Guardianista Nick Cohen looked at the phenomenon in his chapter on Chomsky in What’s Left.

    TB this, like the Hockey ‘get a job’ comment, is a complete beat-up. And it is playing to their strength.The government will just use this to contrast their record on stopping the boats. Stick to jobs, the housing bubble, the mining bust, what happens when construction tanks as it surely must?

  79. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 3:35 pm

  80. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 3:46 pm

    just enough weasel words to suggest things without taking responsibility for them.

    You mean like “operational matters”? 😉

  81. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 15, 2015 3:51 pm

    I did say it “suggests” it, not proves it, s proof, in this new era of “operational matters” is impossible to come by

    No you made a statement.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/06/09/kevin-or-julia-who-is-telling-the-troof/#comment-106867

    Considering even more are drowning now that the libs are forcing/paying smugglers to carry them back onto the ocean, not sure how anyone can try and run that argument with a straight face.

  82. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 4:39 pm

    TB this, like the Hockey ‘get a job’ comment, is a complete beat-up. And it is playing to their strength.The government will just use this to contrast their record on stopping the boats. Stick to jobs, the housing bubble, the mining bust, what happens when construction tanks as it surely must?

    sb, are you saying that Jockey’s stupid statements and ceegar puffin’ don’t demonstrate he is out of touch with most of us?

    What is their strength? Deception, obfuscation, vagueness -weasel words, flip flopping?

    Jobs? You mean that they aren’t creating or assisting in any way?

    The housing bubble that doesn’t exist?

    The mining bust and ideological destruction of other industries, dithering and withholding assistance?

    Construction will tank? Why?

    And did the government pay people smugglers or not — is not a “beat-up” — its a legally downward spiral that demonstrates a very dark minded government.

    Or have I missed what you are attempting to say?

  83. June 15, 2015 4:39 pm
  84. June 15, 2015 4:42 pm

    Tony Abbott, Julie Bishop and Peter Dutton refuse to answer Opposition questions about paying people smugglers…

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-15/people-smugglers-abbott-bishop-dutton-refuse-discuss-payments/6547224

  85. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 4:49 pm

    Tony Abbott, Julie Bishop and Peter Dutton refuse to answer Opposition questions about paying people smugglers…

    And if they didn’t, they will still have egg on their faces after this amount of time … quite frankly I don’t think they know … and are attempting to find out …

    If they did pay … illegal and should result in a full resignation of cabinet at the very least and all parties called to the bar!

    If they did and they didn’t know … incompetent (a word easily associated with Dutton)

    If they knew they didn’t pay and are playing silly buggers … then I don’t think most people will like being “toyed” with … and because it belittles the nation … and demonstrates the childishness of the “adults” in charge …

  86. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 4:51 pm

    Buying time to cook up an Howardesque scenario is my guess …or waiting for a serious incident to shift the focus ..

  87. June 15, 2015 5:02 pm

    “”I don’t think they know … and are attempting to find out …””

    Oh I think they know allright, otherwise why change their rhetoric from outright denials last week to refusing to answer questions today.

    Heck Bishop refused to explain why her response today was different to her response last week…!

  88. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 5:45 pm

    Fair call, sreb … maybe my last comment is more appropriate …

    D’ya know I really don’t care who’s in power as long as they treat me as an ADULT! 😈

  89. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 6:28 pm

    Bloody hell! Another beat-up!

    IF THE government’s no-nonsense proposal to take citizenship from terrorists fails the constitutional test, it could be because someone skipped a page while reading a report.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/government-legal-adviser-says-powers-for-minister-to-revoke-citizenship-without-court-conviction-unconstitutional/story-fns0jze1-1227399192010

  90. In_the_sticks permalink
    June 15, 2015 6:40 pm

    Neil,

    Just read your response to my question, and (as expected) it’s a load of shit.

    If Abbott didn’t know, surely the proper response would be something along the lines of ‘not aware of this practice, we’ll be asking the Navy to advise, anyone found to have been giving money to people smugglers will be in a great deal of trouble, etc..’

    By now the government should know what happened out there and be in a position to respond appropriately. Their performance to date indicates that they knew it was happening but they just don’t want to come out and admit it. As Reb has pointed out, some have changed from outright denial to refusing to discuss it – might indicate another ‘Captain’s Call’ that has come back to bite them on the arse.

    As for it being a ‘security’ matter, well, there’s not much point in keeping a secret that every man and his dog already know about.

  91. June 15, 2015 6:42 pm

    “”Just read your response to my question, and (as expected) it’s a load of shit.””

    You’ll come to find that’s not an unusual occurrence around these parts Sticks.. 🙂

    Welcome BTW… 🙂

  92. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 6:45 pm

    A prime minister in trouble
    The government is beginning to look very ragged on national security.
    http://www.themonthly.com.au/the-monthly-today/sean-kelly/2015/15/2015/1434349184/prime-minister-trouble

    …But there’s a dangerous pattern developing for the government in national security. A tendency for its left hand to be entirely unsure what its right hand is up to. A habit of the PM having information that his ministers – including his deputy – don’t…

    …Obviously, if the payment occurred as a part of operations Dutton oversees, then he should have known. That means that he lied, or that he has been kept out of the loop by his own department, or that he has been kept out of the loop on matters handled by agencies not directly under his control, or on events that occurred under the previous minister, Scott Morrison. None of those are good options…

  93. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 6:47 pm

    No you made a statement.

    And did the link I put up supported that assertion

  94. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 15, 2015 6:58 pm

    And did the link I put up supported that assertion

    No.You said more people are drowning because the Libs are forcing people back into the ocean. It was Labor causing the deaths because they encouraged people to come by boats after the problem had been solved.

    And neither confirming or denying whether money was paid is the correct response because it would never end the next time something else comes up.

  95. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 6:59 pm

    Heck Bishop refused to explain why her response today was different to her response last week…!

    Her worst response imo was her attack on Indonesia this morning trying to blame them for us becoming people smugglers best friends.

    And then they try to tell us that we have no issue with our relationship with them.

    It has been shit since yabot took over, and just got worst since.

  96. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:08 pm

    It has been shit since yabot took over,

    And 50,000 boat people arriving under Labor and rapidly increasing and costing us $12B to house all these people with thousands drowning making the attempt is not a problem.

    This whole problem was created by TB, REb, TomR and anyone else who voted for Rudd in 2007.

  97. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:10 pm

    So ASIS is the go-to rogue agency for dirty & illegal stuff that couldn’t pass normal government channels?
    Does that mean the australian public can never know what is done in their name and on whose instructions?

  98. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:11 pm

    It has been shit since yabot took over, and just got worst since.

    And this is not shit?

    Between January 2011 and February 2013 there were 4,313 incidents of actual, threatened and attempted serious self-harm recorded in immigration detention facilities in Australia.[73] In the 2012–2013 financial year there were 846 incidents of self-harm across the immigration detention network.[74]

    Between 1 July 2010 and 20 June 2013, there were 12 deaths in immigration detention facilities. Coroners have found that six of those deaths were suicides.[75]

  99. TB Queensland permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:16 pm

    Does that mean the australian public can never know what is done in their name

    Welcome to democracy 21st Century … or is that 1984?

  100. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:21 pm

    Welcome to democracy 21st Century … or is that 1984?

    1934?

    Let’ hope SOMEONE has the guts to push ahead. From my readings elsewhere, no matter who or why, senate estimates should reveal the truth.

    And this is not shit?

    So nil, are you comfortable with paying people smugglers? Are you comfortable with “by hook or by crook”?

  101. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 7:22 pm

  102. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 8:07 pm

  103. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 15, 2015 8:32 pm

    Nothing but illegal activity, deceptions and posturing. The abbott only knows how to oppose and engineer division. If his tricks get his government re-elected, the australian people are truly mugs.

    Cabinet leak: Coalition pushes terror law to wedge Labor
    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/cabinet-leak-coalition-pushes-terror-law-to-wedge-labor-20150615-ghnxad?stb=twt

    …The federal government has put at risk parliamentary support for proposed laws to strip the citizenship from dual nationals involved with terrorism after a leaked document exposed its motivation included pushing potentially unconstitutional proposals in a bid to wedge the Labor Party…

    The question time brief can be accessed from within this article:

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/28459915/court-move-renders-law-toothless/

  104. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 9:38 pm

    Would be hilarious if Labor used that in QT tomorrow AO

  105. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 9:39 pm

  106. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 9:39 pm

  107. Tom R permalink
    June 15, 2015 9:43 pm

    Still amazed the press gallery thinks she’s competent.

    Still amazed anyone still thinks the press gallery thinks.

    And we will be spending years trying to piece back together the fractured relationship we have with Indonesia now.

  108. June 15, 2015 11:32 pm

    “And we will be spending years trying to piece back together the fractured relationship we have with Indonesia now.”

    Guffaw.

    #executiongate

  109. June 15, 2015 11:48 pm

    “Fact 4: There are almost 18 million refugees and asylum seekers in the world”

    That may, or may not, be the case.

    Just as this may or may not, be the case:

    “Those migrating today are doing so for the same reasons that once spurred millions of Europeans to leave their countries. They are fleeing poverty, war, or oppression, or are searching for a better life in a new land.”

    Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/human-migration-reality-by-kofi-a-annan-2015-06#MtLkKszMKSzYv3fR.99

    Or this:

    “Of course, not all migrants are refugees or require protection. In fact, migrants on the same boat may have very different motives – what policymakers call “mixed migration.” But, faced with a complex picture, states have tended to address the flow of migrants they deem undesirable by saying, in effect, “out of sight, out of mind.” This is especially true when domestic anti-immigrant sentiment spikes, typically during economic downturns like the one that many regions currently are experiencing.”

    http://kofiannanfoundation.org/newsroom/news/2014/01/sympathy-migrant

  110. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 7:47 am

    Too funny

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4255471.htm

    The ABC asked the Opposition if it could rule out the possibility that spies like ASIS agents made payments to people smugglers during the Rudd-Gillard years. Its response: it’s unlawful to divulge security or intelligence information.

  111. June 16, 2015 8:12 am

    Good morning Teabags.

    Remember it`s FUN tuesday on my abc tonight with `the.killing.season`.

    This mornings clips on my abc breakfastclaptrap has been interesting, on the night of the knifing joolya admitted to leaving kevin07 with a `deal` on the leadership, including working out many details for 2-hours, then knifing him anyway. Lends a lot credibility to the jooLIAR critics. (The trouble for blib here, will be convincing the public to now return to the jooLIAR regime). Albo was interesting too, saying, `do we really want to kill-off a prime minister`. Another dude said `if swan had just said no to knifing kevin, that would have been the end of it`.

    #the more l see of blib`s rabble, the more l think blib won`t make it

    #tune in tonight for episode-2 of the train-wreck

    (there won`t be a teabag missing it)

  112. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 8:31 am

    Wow, big news about old news

    Cash payments have been made to members of Indonesian people-smuggling rings by Australian intelligence officials for at least the past four years – including under the former Labor government, Fairfax Media has learnt.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/asylum-boat-turnbacks-australia-paid-people-smugglers-under-former-labor-government-20150615-ghotbt.html

    This has been going on since howards days, and it was reported by fairfax back then. The muddying of the waters continue with our msm

    Heads up muppets, paying informants to STOP people smugglers is vastly different than paying people smugglers to continue their journey

    Will the msm be able to note the difference?

  113. June 16, 2015 8:34 am

    “”Heads up muppets, paying informants to STOP people smugglers is vastly different than paying people smugglers to continue their journey…””

    “”Vastly different?””

    Really…?? I would’ve thought that paying people smugglers (which are criminal networks let’s not forget) would’ve been pretty deplorable under any circumstances….No?

  114. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 16, 2015 8:54 am

    “the more l see of blib`s rabble, the more l think blib won`t make it”

    True enough. If he lasts to the next election he will lose. The new rules make it difficult to boot Little Billy Two Knives. But some loyal party hack might show him something from his AWU past which causes his immediate resignation. That will be the best outcome for the ALP.

  115. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 16, 2015 8:58 am

    Paying informants is a normal part of policing. The real question is WGAF? Most of the country is happy the boats have stopped. Politically this is damaging for Labor.

  116. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:01 am

    would’ve been pretty deplorable under any circumstances….No?

    In a perfect world reb, I’d agree. Do we live in a perfect world.

    Where has the OUTRAGE been since this practice has been going on since Howards time

    Nevertheless, in private, it had no compunction in employing people like Enniss, who collected a hefty $25,000 from the AFP for spying,

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/10/siev-o21.html

    Not that doing what howard was doing I would condone either. But paying smuggler TO smuggle IS vastly different from paying smugglers NOT TO smuggle.

  117. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:05 am

    Paying informants is a normal part of policing.

    Exactly. Paying gun runners to continue running guns isn’t.

    Politically this is damaging for Labor.

    Yes, it will be, because the msm won’t be able to discern the difference.

  118. June 16, 2015 9:08 am

    `heads up muppets`, so we have 4, count them, 4, consecutive regimes paying smugglers, (john-w, kevin07, jooliar, mr-rabbit), and this proves the `teams` are different team-cheerer.? how.? .. and isn`t it wonderful, yet again, that both the `teams` are doing what they tell others NOT to do.

    #fcuking lying arse-hole hypocrites the lot of them

    #the sooner asio scoops-up both teams and drop them off in the lands of the `death-cult`, the better for the rest of us #ship.them.out.asio

  119. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:20 am

    Politically this is damaging for Labor.

    Labor WILL need to get right on the front foot and highlight the difference between paying informants and paying smugglers to continue smuggling so the msm have no excuse not to notice.

    meanwhile, teabag thinks he’s been ignorant all these years. I don’t disagree 😉

  120. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:21 am

    Media beat up?

  121. June 16, 2015 9:27 am

    `If he lasts to the next election””’ oh the rabble-cult will keep blib to the election, they weren`t fcuking bright enough to go with albo as the membership wanted, and it is probably too late for caucus to switch leaders. Yeah, agree with your second bit, blib will end-up helping the zombie-cult slide back in.

  122. June 16, 2015 9:44 am

    “the difference between paying informants and paying smugglers to discontinue smuggling”

    Fixed it.

  123. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:45 am

    “Most of the country is happy the boats have stopped. Politically this is damaging for Labor.”

    Absolutely the public does not give a flying ratsarse now that the Boats have stopped. The Public have moved on and now the ALP are trying to act hairy chested over it all. How funny.

    I really do hope the ALP keep up this strategy because they are just looking stupid giving the electorate a daily reminder about how many Boats arrived and people died on their watch..

  124. June 16, 2015 9:47 am

    rabble-cult cheerers would do better spending their efforts clubbing their caucus about the head and demanding a better leader, and better chance of defeating the zombie-cult, instead of claiming non-aligned, unimpressed with cults voters are ignorant, (which is what the teabags do by the way)

  125. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:49 am

    Fixed it.

    Why, by ignoring the fact that they/we paid people smugglers money to take asylum seekers onto boats to another destination across the waters?

  126. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:55 am

    So Labor was giving money to these people when last in govt but we got 50,000 boat people under Rudd/Gillard. Looks like the more money they gave these people under Rudd the more boats we got.

    I think we should ask for our money back.

  127. June 16, 2015 9:59 am

    `happy the boats have stopped”””#what crap, l don`t know anybody that really gives a flying fcuk about the boat.panic, it is just horse-shit manufactured by the `cults` and amplified by zombie-media.

  128. June 16, 2015 10:01 am

    Bagz I think your presumption that Abbott is going to romp home at the next election may be a tad premature…

  129. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:02 am

    “This mornings clips on my abc breakfastclaptrap has been interesting, …….”

    Teabag there is nothing all that new in a “Deal” being made. We already knew that was in the mix from that night. It seems to me that the Grub Julia simply agreed on a Deal at first even perhaps a handshake with Rudd then spoke to others afterward and they changed her mind back to “No Deal”.

    Seriously she must be pretty fucking stupid if she thought the Deal would mean anything. Rudd would have used the extra time to publicly destroy her in any manner he could by the end of the Deal time limit.

    Without having a crystal ball at hand that I’m sure is what her backers would have told and then they would have said ………….

    “Listen you idiot, go march back to his Office and tell him the Deal is off”

  130. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:04 am

    “l don`t know anybody that really gives a flying fcuk about the boat.panic”

    Is your name Julian ?

  131. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:09 am

  132. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:13 am

    and demanding a better leader

    I get the distinct impression that no matter who was in charge, they would never be good enough for your personal tastes.

    Which is just as well imo 😉

  133. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:20 am

  134. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:37 am

    I don’t know anybody who really GAFF about what happened eight years ago either … just another look over there to draw attention away from what’s happening today … Rudd and Gillard have no influence on the government of the day …

    TR, I do draw a distinction between paying informants to provide information about people smuggling but not people smugglers themselves … nor to stop people smugglers sending boats and particularly to send them back on the high seas …

    This does nothing for either major party.

    As sb, points out … Politically this is damaging for Labor. and I agree, because Liberal voters are accepting of a the approach at all costs … ALP supporters expect better human rights values to persist …

    The two party bipartisan approach to so many human rights issues is really playing into the hands of parties like the Greens …

    A path I’m now seriously considering myself …

  135. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:41 am

    The two party bipartisan approach to so many human rights issues is really playing into the hands of parties like the Greens …

    This is the same Greens who voted down the Malaysian solution, and helped us to where we are now?

    When it comes to asylum seekers, they are all shit house, some are just more shit house than others

  136. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:46 am

    You thought the Malaysian “solution” was OK? The term “solution” gives you a clue …

    Shakes head …

    The Government proposal was that Australia would swap 800 asylum seekers held in detention centres for 4000 refugees waiting in Malaysia for resettlement …

    On 31 August 2011, the High Court in a six to one decision, ruled that the Gillard Governments proposal to send unwanted asylum seekers to Malaysia was illegal.

    http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2011/11/23/3374312.htm

  137. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:47 am

    People are not commodities to trade …

  138. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:49 am

    Burnside is emblematic of the pompous, posturing intelligentsia. The type that encourage small children to spit on their political opponents.

    The craziest position on boat-people is that of pretending to care for refugees while having supported policies that had them drowning by the thousand. Then, doubling down, there are the shameless hypocrites who, being evidently upset that the drownings have stopped, criticise the policies which have actually saved lives.

  139. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:53 am

    So the media had us all running round and round in circles.

  140. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:56 am

    You thought the Malaysian “solution” was OK?

    I thought the Malaysian solution was the best start we had to begin a regional solution. It was the start of a process of embracing processing within the region. The greens voted it out, even though the UNHCR had offered their support.

  141. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:57 am

    A path I’m now seriously considering myself …

    Do it TB, the only way we have to express our dissatisfaction with the two majors is by voting against them. The way that I see it, is, they have left us no choice, they refuse to represent us so don’t deserve the support.

    You won’t look back!

    I can’t see anywhere else to post this.

  142. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:02 am

    This is interesting. Why would the shoppies union be acting against the financial interests of it’s own members? Why would they have reached such an agreement?
    Time for members to revolt!

    Watchdog steps in over Coles’ ‘low pay’ deal with union;
    http://www.theage.com.au/national/watchdog-steps-in-over-coles-low-pay-deal-with-union-20150613-ghn4rs.html

    …Supermarket giant Coles might have to pay up to $50 million more per year in wages, after the industrial umpire intervened in a cosy deal with the conservative shop assistants’ union that would have underpaid many thousands of workers…

  143. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:05 am

    So the media had us all running round and round in circles.

    another day in the trenches

  144. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:05 am

    “Do it TB, the only way we have to express our dissatisfaction with the two majors is by voting against them.”

    But your preference has to end somewhere. I voted Green for a few elections on that basis. Then I realised what a bunch of extreme left ratbags they are.

    I suggest the LDP. If I had to join a party it would be them.

  145. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:08 am

    Time for members to revolt!

    I AGREE!

    The one Union the Royal witch hunt doesn’t attack, is the one found making life worst for members. It says much about the Witch hunt imo

  146. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:12 am

    because Liberal voters are accepting of a the approach at all costs

    Get stuffed. What we want is a fair and just system which is impossible. But Howard had it better than most with his Pacific Solution which YOU dismantled with your vote in 2007.

    “ALP supporters expect better human rights values to persist …

    Yeah 1,200 drownings, 2,000 kids locked up, record numbers of asylum seekers in detention, 4,000 incidents in detention under Rudd/Gillard.

    Too bad you live in leftie laa laa land TB.

  147. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:20 am

    ROFL

    Stopping the boats has improved Australia’s relations with Indonesia, Prime Minister Tony Abbott claimed on Tuesday.

    This is despite an escalation of diplomatic tensions between the two countries over claims Australian officials paid people smuggling crews to turn back boats carrying asylum seekers and return to Indonesia.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/stopping-the-boats-has-improved-australias-relationship-with-indonesia-tony-abbott-20150616-ghotw3

    This is despite reality ROFL

  148. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:29 am

    Then I realised what a bunch of extreme left ratbags they are.

    Show me their extreme left wing policies sb

    You reject a progressive party as extreme and then would support an extreme right wing one? Had a good look at the craziness that is a libertarian?

    I suggest the LDP. If I had to join a party it would be them.

    That would be second last on my list of parties to vote for, right next to the LNP!

    I would [and do] support through numbering my senate paper
    the secular party
    the pirate party
    the senator online party

    I do not like the political system as it exists for us now, it is not a representative democracy, I do not like the two party duopoly that works together against the wishes of the electorate, I want change, the sooner the better.

  149. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:38 am

    Stopping the boats has improved Australia’s relations with Indonesia, Prime Minister Tony Abbott claimed on Tuesday.

    How much longer will the public and media swallow his bare faced lying, saying the opposite of the truth at every turn? He is a propaganda expert, a true goebbels disciple running a fascist regime here.

  150. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:44 am

    Is bananaby really the best distraction the coalition could find to get their people trafficking off the news?

  151. June 16, 2015 11:51 am

    “I do not like the political system as it exists for us now, it is not a representative democracy, I do not like the two party duopoly that works together against the wishes of the electorate, I want change, the sooner the better.”

    Nor do I. But I’ll go one step further. I don’t like democracy, where the minority must succumb to the tyranny of the majority. The more things taken out of government control, the better.

  152. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:52 am

    At 09:57

    Do you know what an asylum seeker is?
    Kids between the ages of 6 and 11 sit down to chat about refugees who come to Australia.
    Watch out for the small chap who thinks they come from “the eastern suburbs”.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/the-pulse-live/politics-live-june-16-2015-20150616-ghouk6.html

  153. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 16, 2015 11:57 am

    I thought you might fancy the Greens, KL 🙂

    Greens think the world is overpopulated and they support voluntary euthanasia. Right there is their chance to show their sincerity and improve the mental hygiene of the planet at the same time.

  154. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 12:04 pm

    …The more things taken out of government control, the better…

    The government who supposedly represents the people?

    You prefer the 1% control all?

    That means the control goes to the wealthy, the autocrats, those who hold powerful positions in society like the churches, the plutocrats and oligarchs will take over. Unlimited GFC and economic slavery, what fun for the serfs!

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/02/plutocrats-v-oligarchs/

  155. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 12:08 pm

    Greens think the world is overpopulated and they support voluntary euthanasia.

    me too!

  156. June 16, 2015 12:25 pm

    “The government who supposedly represents the people”

    Which people do you think they represent?

  157. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 12:27 pm

    Paying the People Smugglers: Australia’s Abbott Government Joins the Industry
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/paying-the-people-smugglers-australias-abbott-government-joins-the-industry/5455587

    …The language of rights in Australia tends to resemble that of a transaction. People are protected the way a customer is. There is little sense in importing a human value into it – that would simply be too abstract…

    …With this in mind, the latest revelations that the Australian government has, effectively, fed the very business model it condemns is striking. It is the logic of the emancipist who wishes to liberate the enslaved by paying the slave traders. Good for the slave trade, but bad for the cause of liberation.

    The policy affirms that the refugee argument in Australia has nothing to do with human rights or the dignity of the individual being trafficked. It has everything to do with making sure no one arrives in Australia via such channels. Turning back the boats is central to this policy, even if it relocates the trade – and the drowning – elsewhere.

    …Much is made of the Abbott government’s success in stopping boats laden with human cargo; nothing is made about the fact that the drowning dangers are simply moved elsewhere. People continue coming by sea because wars, famine and disastrously governed states have not miraculously ceased to exist. Nor have the smugglers, who can now rest assured that they have another source of revenue: the Australian government…

    http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/06/15/children-exposed-tobacco-advertising-school.html

    The cigarette companies are losing targets in rich, educated countries. They see their profits in the people, especially children, of third world countries…

  158. June 16, 2015 12:33 pm

    “they support voluntary euthanasia.” “me too!”

    There’s just one example of the sort of thing that could/should be taken out of government hands. Marriage is another one.

  159. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 12:47 pm

    Labor frontbenchers will not discuss payments made to people-smugglers during its tenure, citing legal restrictions.

  160. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:02 pm

    nothing is made about the fact that the drowning dangers are simply moved elsewhere.

    HERESY!

  161. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:03 pm

    Which people do you think they represent?

    I think they actually represent corporations, lobbyists and their political donors.
    They pretend that they represent the interests of voters though, we have the hand on heart, teary affirmations by politicians for their love of the wonderful people and how great is the democracy that they bastardise for personal power.

    But governments do have an obligation to look after the welfare of the poor, the needy and the disadvantaged.

    That won’t happen in an oligarchy, the poor and disadvantaged, those ‘losers’ who capitalism trampled into the ground in their quest for the almighty $, would be forced to their knees to beg for charity from the churches [also a system working for the ruling elite].

    The only thing that stands between outright rule by corporations and the wealthy elite is the elected government so it needs to be as strong and as visible as possible to withstand corporate power. We need more regulation and control by government, not less.

  162. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:07 pm

    Secret deals between Toll Holdings and the TWU did not breach competition laws, says ACCC:
    http://www.afr.com/business/infrastructure/roads/secret-deals-between-toll-holdings-and-the-twu-did-not-breach-competition-laws-says-accc-20150616-ghp085

    …The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission announced on Tuesday that an investigation into alleged anti-competitive agreements between Toll and the TWU concluded that the deals did not contravene the provisions of the Competition and Consumer Act.

    The ACCC commenced the probe after evidence about the confidential deeds was heard last year by the Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corruption…

  163. June 16, 2015 1:10 pm

    ” We need more regulation and control by government, not less.”

    Which perfectly illustrates the fundamental difference between the left and right of politics. The left wants the all-powerful state to control their lives for them. The right wants individuals to control their own lives.

  164. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:15 pm

    evidence about the confidential deeds was heard last year by the Royal Commission

    I think they meant to say “allegations” 😉

  165. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:23 pm

    “”…………..nothing is made about the fact that the drowning dangers are simply moved elsewhere. ”

    What like in TomR silly example of the Med ?

    If you follow the way TomR’s logic works you would have to conclude that Wilbur and Orville Wright were ultimately responsible for the destruction of the New York World Trade Towers

  166. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:24 pm

    The right wants individuals to control their own lives.

    Except it’s not individuals controlling their own lives, it is economic slavery to a corporate controller.
    Also, the corporate has their hand out to the government [taxpayer] all along the way, certainly don’t make their profits without socialised assistance.

  167. June 16, 2015 1:26 pm

    “In principle, there are only two fundamental political viewpoints. That is, two contradictory ends of the ‘political spectrum.’ Those two principles are freedom and slavery.” ~ Mark Da Cunha

  168. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:26 pm

    “The right wants individuals to control their own lives.”

    If only! What do you think the same-sex marriage discussion is all about?

  169. June 16, 2015 1:27 pm

    “Except it’s not individuals controlling their own lives, it is economic slavery to a corporate controller. Also, the corporate has their hand out to the government [taxpayer] all along the way, certainly don’t make their profits without socialised assistance.”

    Like I said. Democracy sucks.

  170. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:28 pm

    What like in TomR silly example of the Med ?

    Except “the Med” wasn’t the only example, was it.

  171. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:29 pm

    “economic slavery” … is what goes on in socialist countries.

    Socialism is people lining up for bread. Capitalism is bread lining up for people.

  172. June 16, 2015 1:29 pm

    “If only! What do you think the same-sex marriage discussion is all about?”

    I’m not pretending the Liberal party is any shining exemplar of the ideal of individualism. Your LDP is a better real-world example.

  173. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:40 pm

    I would believe in individualism if all individuals lived on their own little island, doing everything for themselves, providing their own transport, roads, sewerage, protection and energy, not using one thing that has been funded by a collective or the taxpayer.

    Doesn’t happen though.

  174. June 16, 2015 1:41 pm

    “Wherever the real power in a Government lies, there is the danger of oppression. In our Governments the real power lies in the majority of the community, and the invasion of private rights is chiefly to be apprehended, not from acts of Government contrary to the sense of its constituents, but from acts in which the Government is the mere instrument of the major number of the Constituents.” ~ James Madison, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 1788

  175. June 16, 2015 1:44 pm

    “I would believe in individualism if all individuals lived on their own little island”

    That’s a start. Now you only need to get your head around how this might work in an actual society with limited government. (I’ve never advocated anarchy.)

  176. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:46 pm

    We publish, below, a transcript of a letter signed by the 65 asylum-seekers whose boat, which was heading for New Zealand, was intercepted by the Australian Navy and Customs. As is now common knowledge – the story has gone global – the crew of the boat were subsequently bribed by Australian Customs officers to divert their human cargo to Indonesia. The letter by the asylum-seekers reveals precise and more accurate – compared to previous press reports – details of their journey; also how they had been mistreated by the Australian Navy. The names of all 65 are given in the letter: each person has a story to tell and all 65 are now anxious to meet with Australian journalists to explain more of what happened.

    https://undercoverinfo.wordpress.com/2015/06/14/onwatergate-65-asylum-seekers-named-more-details-of-journey-revealed/

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. They want to meet with our journalists ROFL

    It shows how far from the rest of the world we really are 😦

  177. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:47 pm

  178. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:53 pm

    That’s a start. Now you only need to get your head around how this might work in an actual society with limited government.

    I don’t consider individuals to be a society [nor did maggie thatcher IIRC]
    Individuals leech off a society.

    I’ve never advocated anarchy.

    I have 🙂

  179. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:55 pm

    in an actual society with limited government.

    You mean one where there are no regulations around say, installing pink batts?

  180. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:57 pm

    The Transport Workers’ Union has demanded that the Royal Commission on Trade Unions end its attack on the union and its members after the ACCC today found there was no anti-competitive agreements with logistics firm Toll.

    http://www.twu.com.au/home/media/accc-finding-on-royal-commission-shows-attacks-on-/

    Meanwhile, the one Union NOT representing its workers gets a free ride. Who’s running the show?

  181. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 1:59 pm

    I just paid a visit to the Guardian and boy do the lefties hate Abbott. I thought the hatred against Howard was bad but lefties have taken the hatred up a notch with Abbott.

    The unjust thing is that this people smuggler problem was solved under Howard. The people smugglers were put back into business by the ALP/Greens. 50,000 people passed through Indonesia and people smugglers got hundreds of millions of dollars because TomR, TB,AO, Reb, Toilet, Walrus, SB et al voted for Rudd.

  182. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:01 pm

  183. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:02 pm

    this people smuggler problem was solved under Howard.

    Yet still, they come………

  184. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:06 pm

    The bomber will always get through:
    http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/the-bomber-will-always-get-through.html

    …The entire premise behind Abbott’s fear campaign is that it people are grateful when the government steps up and takes charge. Nobody is assuaged or comforted when Tony Abbott steps up and takes charge…

    …The idea that Abbott can make up for policy failings elsewhere in government with the lights-and-greasepaint of “national security theatre” isn’t just ‘flawed’, as they say in Canberra: it’s crap. It doesn’t play to a strength. It doesn’t compensate for his weaknesses, it emphasises them…

    …Abbott and the dopey crew surrounding him think there’s value in inserting their guy into genuinely tough situations, like an action hero cavorting in front of a green screen within a film studio. There’s no helping him, or them, get over it. There’s no way the press gallery will snap out of it either. They can all be shown up, and they probably will; and once again we will all pay the price of a bad government foisted upon us by misleading, disinformative, unchallenging work from the press gallery…

  185. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:17 pm

    I saw qanda last night tomR, and thought BB looked very unhappy and uncomfortable with the conversation and the professional expertise around her. She seemed to hate having to behave in a politely restrained manner, at not being able to control the debate and the forum.

    She looked particularly bitter when gillian triggs strongly defended her role and duty, receiving audience applause, make no mistake triggs is coalition enemy #1.

  186. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:19 pm

    Yet still, they come………

    The problem was solved until you voted for Rudd. We got 50,000 boat people under Rudd/Gillard. At $10,000 each that means the people smugglers got $500M. Not bad money.

    ALP/Greens the people smugglers best friend.

  187. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:22 pm

    “I would believe in individualism if all individuals lived on their own little island”

    Now you only need to get your head around how this might work in an actual society with limited government.

    Please explain?

    Does that mean we all put in our own sewerage systems? And just throw our garbage on the street … that’s if we have one …

    I mean look how apoplectic Wally gets over individuals generating their own electricity

  188. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:30 pm

    The problem was solved

    I’m sorry, who did we just pay to take who back to where?

  189. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:32 pm

    I used to be ridiculed for saying I vote informal** because I was dissatisfied with the 2 parties. But it seems that this is becoming a popular option.

    (**note – I voted ALP at the last federal election)

  190. June 16, 2015 2:39 pm

    “make no mistake triggs is coalition enemy #1”

    And Qanda is #2.

  191. June 16, 2015 2:42 pm

    “I don’t consider individuals to be a society

    Poor choice of words by me, probably. I could have used something like ‘population’.

  192. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:46 pm

    …I used to be ridiculed for saying I vote informal** because I was dissatisfied with the 2 parties. But it seems that this is becoming a popular option…

    I’ll never vote informal, that would be like throwing my vote away. I want it to count against the lab/lib duopoly, informal doesn’t do that, it allows the status quo IMO.

  193. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:51 pm

    I used to be ridiculed for saying I vote informal

    Actually yomm, you were ridiculed for a lot of things

    #justsayin 😉

  194. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:52 pm

    …Now you only need to get your head around how this might work in an actual society with limited government…

    The only limited government you want is one that protects and enhances property owners and the interests of the wealthy.

    I say go the whole hog and have no government at all if you really believe in the individual, fend for yourself against the collective that you reject and see how well ‘individuals’ manage without state forces directed to assist and protect them.

  195. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:54 pm

    #justsayin

    😆

  196. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 2:57 pm

    this people smuggler problem was solved under Howard.

    There is no ‘problem’ it’s a politically manufactured fear campaign to gain the votes of bigots.

  197. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:10 pm

    There is no ‘problem’ since Abbott stopped the drownings. it’s a politically manufactured fear campaign to gain the votes of bigots.

  198. Splatterbottom permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:16 pm

    The problem with leftists is that they always fuck things up. In the case of the extreme left, very badly. No surprise that Soviet acolyte Lee Rhiannon has found a comfy possie in the Greens. No surprise that the Greens are anti-free speech proto-totalitarians.

    The mistake of leftists everywhere is that they think they know better than everyone else. Bossy bullies in primary school usually end up as Greens. Thomas Sowell has them pegged:

    The left is not necessarily aiming at totalitarianism. But their know-it-all mindset leads repeatedly and pervasively in that direction, even if by small steps, each of which might be called “micro-totalitarianism.”

  199. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:26 pm

  200. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:35 pm

    “gillian triggs strongly defended her role and duty,”

    Yes…………..completely unsuccessfully given the point Bishop made in front of the usual sniffing arse Lefties.

    Of course she got applause. It’s her crowd of Uni students and Public Servants and Welfare recipients completely representative of everything mainstream Australia is not

  201. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:36 pm

    The mistake of leftists everywhere is that they think they know better than everyone else. Bossy bullies in primary school usually end up as Greens.

    You obviously didn’t watch Q&A last night … especially the NVCs … or if you did …?

    Bronwyn was fabulous* the born to rule arrogance could not be hidden … and she knew it!

    As for your quote above, sb, I’ve only lived under three governments that walked the road to totalitarianism … Joh Bjelke Peterson, Tony Abbot … and the ugliest coward of all Robert Menzies – whose government press-ganged 64,000, 20 years old into the regular army … of which 143 died … for an ideology many did not support … and a war that need not have been fought …

    … John Howard was a war monger … and an apt mentor for his psychotic protégé, who we now have “in charge” of Australia …

  202. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:36 pm

    “Abbott “doesn’t want to dwell on the past.”….”

    FMD ………………….the Left had 3 years to enquire. Or you’d rather forget that bit of trivia ?

  203. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:37 pm

    There is no ‘problem’ since Abbott stopped the drownings

    hmm, then why have drownings increased across the globe since yabot started paying people smugglers to smuggle people back across the globe?

  204. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:37 pm

    … completely representative of everything mainstream Australia is not

    And what is “mainstream” Australia?

  205. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:39 pm

    FMD ………………….the Left had 3 years to enquire. Or you’d rather forget that bit of trivia ?

    … or too busy getting on with governing?

  206. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:40 pm

    “I mean look how apoplectic Wally gets over individuals generating their own electricity”

    I mean look how apoplectic Wally gets over individuals receiving taxpayer subsidies for generating their own electricity

    Fixed it !

  207. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:44 pm

    “50,000 people passed through Indonesia and people smugglers got hundreds of millions of dollars because TomR, TB,AO, Reb, Toilet, Walrus, SB et al voted for Rudd.”

    I swear I’m gonna hunt you down if you keep reminding me.

    If you see a really tall ugly and angry looking 50 something bloke pull up outside your place in a black Lexus ……………………………..Hide

    🙂

  208. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 3:48 pm

    The mistake of leftists everywhere is that they think they know better than everyone else. Bossy bullies in primary school usually end up as Greens…

    In my experience the bossy bullies end up being bossy bully, snot nosed conservatives, usually a product of the private school system which is a natural fit for the party of jack booted fascism, racism and bigotry.

    Don’t confuse free speech and freedom to defame, bully, vilify, abuse and incite hatred against others, especially those without the means to defend themselves.

    Actual research [not opinion from the bolt megaphones]:

    Explainer: how do Australia’s laws on hate speech work in practice?
    https://theconversation.com/explainer-how-do-australias-laws-on-hate-speech-work-in-practice-26105

    …We recently completed a major study of Australian hate speech laws. Our research shows little evidence of an overzealous approach to taking legal action. Nor does our study find any “chilling effect” on free speech and debate in the media over a period of 20 years…

  209. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:01 pm

    If you see a really tall ugly and angry looking 50 something bloke pull up outside your place in a black Lexus ……………………………..Hide

    I’d be wary of a little fat, bloke in a Holden Kingswood if I was you, Kneel … (Wally tends to live in a bit of a fantasy)

  210. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:02 pm

    Now you only need to get your head around how this might work in an actual society with limited government.

    Please explain?

  211. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:03 pm

    hmm, then why have drownings increased across the globe since yabot started paying people smugglers to smuggle people back across the globe?

    Now TomR not only has Abbott drowning thousands of people just off the coast of Italy he is also responsible for the worldwide people smugglers.

    TomR the world has not changed. John Howard solved the problem in our region. Your vote in 2007 restarted the trade.

  212. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:14 pm

    Mr Shorten said he would not comment on Australian Secret Intelligence Service matters and nor should any serious leader.

    Nevertheless, he said Mr Abbott should “clear these matters up very simply with a yes or no just as I’ve done”.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/boat-payment-questions-legitimate-shorten/story-e6frfku9-1227400308036

  213. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:19 pm

    Thanks for the laugh TB.

  214. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:23 pm

    “I’d be wary of a little fat, bloke in a Holden Kingswood if I was you”

    The closest I have ever been to a Holden was my 1973 Torana GTR.

  215. June 16, 2015 4:23 pm

    “hmm, then why have drownings increased across the globe since yabot started paying people smugglers to smuggle people back across the globe”

    Hmm. If he did pay them, it was to return to Indonesia (rather than completing the 279km journey to Christmas Island). How this caused drownings to increase “across the globe” has got me stumped. Maybe it’s because of the butterfly effect that caused people from Africa to drown in the Mediterranian.

  216. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:23 pm

    1972 manufacturing plate I should say. First registered 1973

  217. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:24 pm

    TomR the world has not changed. John Howard solved the problem in our region. Your vote in 2007 restarted the trade.

    And your vote for howard started the iraq war and created ISIS and the death cult, now the whole country lives in fear which is exactly what mick keelty said would happen before abbott pulled his choker chain tight.. Your vote for abbott has caused an iraqi man in nauru to be murdered and one to die of an infected foot.
    Your vote for abbott has caused people smugglers, the worst of all evils to be paid taxpayer’s money, just like your vote for howard caused australia to pay illegal [taxpayer funded] bribes for wheat to the brutal dictator saddam hussein.
    Your vote for abbott has caused our government to defend a catholic church for sexually abusing little children and covering it all up. Your vote for abbott makes little children cry.
    Your vote for abbott was a vote for a totalitarian state with fascist control over people, you voted for a government to take justice away from the court system and put it into the hands of politician bigots and powermongers. Your vote has caused democracy to cease to exist in australia.

    http://www.ellistabletalk.com/2015/06/16/the-terrorism-scorecard-1/

    …It is a hundred years and one hundred and eighty two days since an Australian was killed by an act of terrorism in Australia.

    I will update this figure every day until a fatality, at last, occurs…

    The Thirty-Four Worst Things The Liberals Did Yesterday:
    http://www.ellistabletalk.com/

    …On Q&A Brett Walker said he never dreamed the Liberals would do this, deprive a citizen of his citizenship without a trial and a conviction. Bronwyn Bishop said they were doing it to ‘keep the people safe’. Gillian Triggs said the torture of children was wrong. Noel Pearson, a Liberal voter, said it wasn’t that many children. Bronwyn Bishop said Gillian Triggs should go into politics if she wanted to talk about human rights. Human rights was none of her business. Triggs said on the contrary, it was what she was paid to look into. Bronwyn said, ‘Well, it’s the first I’ve heard of it.’ Paul Bongiorno on RN said he was amazed that a Speaker, who was supposed to be impartial, should speak in this way to a defender of liberty on Magna Carta day. She was not impartial, he said, and her existence on earth was ‘regrettable’.

    Asked if Abbott saying ‘by hook or by crook’ meant money had been paid to people smugglers Mathias Cormann said, ‘Zeez are on-vorter mudders eet ees our prektees nert to comment on. Eet meye vell bee zat Rudd und Gillard peyed smagglers to drown cheeldren arlso, but I vould nivva, nivva, nivva zeye zat. Nivva ivva zeye zat.’ Asked if his government drowned chiioren, he said, ‘Zees eez an in-vorter mudder I kennut pozziblee comment on.’…

  218. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:27 pm

  219. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:27 pm

  220. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:28 pm

    So people want any negative gearing changes to be grandfathered … but it doesn’t seem to be a problem for pensions …

    The government’s policy would create winners among retirees with more modest means and losers among those with significant assets. It includes a reduction in the maximum value of assets people could hold to remain eligible for the part pension.

    About 91,000 current part-pensioners would no longer qualify for the pension and a further 235,000 would have their payments reduced, but the government says more than 170,000 pensioners with modest assets would have their pensions increased by an average of more than $30 per fortnight.

    The $2.4bn saving from the pension asset test is part of the government’s social services legislation amendment (fair and sustainable pensions) bill 2015. Together with some smaller measures in the same bill, Labor is opposing $2.9bn in savings. But it will support a further $1.5bn in savings, including scrapping the seniors supplement.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jun/16/labor-to-oppose-coalitions-proposal-to-tighten-part-pension-eligibility-test

    For the record I agree with the government’s changes to the part pension …

  221. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:31 pm

    1972 manufacturing plate I should say. First registered 1973

    1972 … ah, a civvie again and driving my family around in a 360cc Scamp …

  222. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:34 pm

    “Your vote for abbott has caused people smugglers, the worst of all evils to be paid taxpayer’s money………”

    Really………the organisers ( the guys receiving the Big $ from the passengers) were on the actual boats.

    Or was it just the Crew that now the People Smugglers will need to be very careful about who they now send.

    Ever heard of disrupting a business model ?

    Thought not !

  223. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:36 pm

    “……..ah, a civvie again and driving my family around in a 360cc Scamp ……”

    Liar

    This would have been your first car

  224. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 4:37 pm

    Your vote for abbott has caused an iraqi man in nauru to be murdered and one to die of an infected foot.

    No AO, it was your vote who encouraged him to come here.

    http://www.architectureanddesign.com.au/news/murdered-manus-island-asylum-seeker-was-an-archite

    Asylum seeker Reza Berati, who was murdered at a detention centre on Manus Island on 17 February, was an architect.

    Berati died after riots broke out on the island, where another 76 asylum seekers were injured in the violence, with five requiring medical evacuations.

    An Iranian national, the 23-year-old graduated as an architect. But unable to find work, he set out for Australia hoping to further his architectural studies. He had dreamed to settle in Melbourne.

  225. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 5:08 pm

    Really………the organisers ( the guys receiving the Big $ from the passengers) were on the actual boats.

    yes, it was reported that the smugglers took all the bribe money for themselves.

    Ever heard of disrupting a business model ?

    Yes I have and you don’t disrupt a business model by paying the business more for their product, more than they would have got on their own behalf. By doing ‘business’ with criminals. Now we are willing participants in a criminal activity. They created an even better business model for the people traffickers, double dipping and payment of trafficking ransoms.

    LNP loves to bribe people for doing wrong and they disregard the laws of the land, it’s their propensity toward criminal behaviour themselves.

    Just like we disrupted the food for oil business model of saddam hussein? We paid bribes to make the abusers and exploiters even richer and without a care about the human cargo affected.

  226. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 5:10 pm

    you are a murderer neil.

  227. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 5:14 pm

    you are a murderer neil.

    Really?? I didn’t encourage Reza Berati to come here so he could get a job as an architect. It was the ALP/Greens who encouraged him to come and it was the ALP/Greens who locked him up.

  228. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 5:31 pm

    If he did pay them, it was to return to Indonesia

    Who do not need any more than the tens of thousands they already have.

    How this caused drownings to increase “across the globe” has got me stumped.

    Forget the “Butterfly Effect” and consider instead the “where the fuck do we go now?” effect. Or the direction they go when they first flee.

    We are making them spend more time on the water, which raises the possibility of them drowning elsewhere. Drownings elsewhere have increased.

    Think on that effect!

    Nevertheless, he said Mr Abbott should “clear these matters up very simply with a yes or no just as I’ve done”.

    like

    “Labor has never paid people smugglers to turn back boats as it appears the government has done,”

    If he can deny it, why can’t yabot?

  229. June 16, 2015 5:48 pm

    “We are making them spend more time on the water, which raises the possibility of them drowning elsewhere. Drownings elsewhere have increased.”

    Not necessarily. If they were less than half way to Christmas Island, and they were turned around, they spent less time at sea, therefore reducing the risk of drowning. This policy is actually saving lives. 😉

  230. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 5:51 pm

    “Labor has never paid people smugglers to turn back boats as it appears the government has done,”

    LOL

    Yeah……….sure…………..but will he deny paying the crews ?

    Carefully chosen words by Zombie Bill

  231. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 5:53 pm

    “This policy is actually saving lives.”

    Which is why they dont like it.

    They need trophy drownings.

    But let them hammer the subject as much as they like. It simply reminds the voters of how pathetic their own border policy was.

  232. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:09 pm

    And then there’s this … I once read that the older men get the more sentimental they get … I can assure you its true … either that or they really stuffed up on the prescription for my glasses …

    A YOUNG waitress from Texas has touched the lives of a couple grieving the loss of their baby, by picking up their bill.

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/waitresss-heartwarming-note-to-grieving-couple/story-fnq2o7hp-1227400918689

  233. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:15 pm

    Liar

    What a fucking idiot! Why would anyone lie about owning a Scamp (for seven years) …

    And Motorbilitys were only sold in the UK … fantasyland again …

    I think you meant this – also not available in Oz … pity … 🙂

  234. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:16 pm

    I mean look how apoplectic Wally gets over individuals receiving taxpayer subsidies for generating their own electricity

    I’d love a link for that!

  235. Walrus permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:16 pm

    Like I said “Bullshit Bill” chooses his words carefully……….

    Was there a difference between the Coalition paying people smugglers on the water and Labor paying out on the land, he was asked?

    “I’m not using the land-sea distinction. I am saying Labor has never paid people smugglers to turn back boats as it appears the Government has done,”

  236. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:19 pm

    This policy is actually saving lives.

    You have no proof of that. We have no idea what is happening out there. All we know, is that drownings are up world-wide. Purely co-incidental I guess.

    Although, we do know that three people are dead not by their hand AFTER being dealt with by grubmint officials.

    Carefully chosen words by Zombie Bill

    Why won’t yabot repeat them then?

  237. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:21 pm

    Yes I have and you don’t disrupt a business model by paying the business more for their product …

    Unfortunately this government does, its their “business model”, KL …

    Never let a CPA* control your business … they only know 1+2-6 = 1

    $66 per tonne of POLLUTION …

    Federal Labor’s climate change spokesman, Mark Butler, has accused the Abbott government of brazen deceptiveness over the results of its first carbon abatement auction, which he said had only really succeeded in buying around 10 million tonnes of new abatement, at a cost of $66 per tonne.

    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2015/hunt-called-out-on-erf-auction-result-most-funded-projects-already-existed-68307

  238. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:21 pm

    I notice Labor supporters are now calling people smugglers, scum.

    They used to say people smugglers should be given a medal by rescuing asylum seekers from certain death.

  239. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:29 pm

    I didn’t encourage Reza Berati to come here so he could get a job as an architect.

    No you didn’t, Kneel …

    But killed a highly qualified man who hoped that the stories he had heard about Australian and the Australian way of life … mateship, a fair go, good people, happy people from all walks of life, no class structure, warm all inclusive society, accepting of hard work, loyalty, family values … would give him the life that you have …

    I suspect you bleed this country of welfare that you really have never earned or don’t deserve, you’re bitter and a very nasty neighbour and person … quite the opposite of Reza Berati … who just wanted to live his life safely … and justly … he was denied … by you and your government …

    Play the game expect the shame!

  240. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:34 pm

    <i.“We are making them spend more time on the water, which raises the possibility of them drowning elsewhere. Drownings elsewhere have increased.”

    Not necessarily.

    Yes it is … exposure to risk is a major factor in risk management, death and injury …

  241. June 16, 2015 6:35 pm

    “”Bullshit Bill” chooses his words carefully……….

    Indeed he does, as they both do.

    Both parties deserved to be rightly condemned over this…. It’s a fkn disgrace!

  242. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:37 pm

    Yeah……….sure…………..but will he deny paying the crews ?

    Gawd strewth! ‘ere we go again … as if the crews weren’t CONTROLLED by the smugglers … clutching at straws! Still

  243. June 16, 2015 6:38 pm

    reb””’romp””’#yeah agree mr-rabbit won`t `romp` in, but maybe `slide` back in. l`m looking at it as voters had enough of joolya, so they rejected her team and `settled` for `reheated.john-w.zombies`. l don`t think this will work in `reverse` tho. l don`t think the voters will flock to `jooLiars.reheated.rabble` under blib. l think, at the end of all the crap, the `best` blib will ever be able to do is, cobble together another `watermelon` team. (yes, under mr-rabbits nose, like joolya did, if need be)

    +

    ao”””the only way we have to express our dissatisfaction with the two majors is by voting against them. The way that I see it, is, they have left us no choice, they refuse to represent us so don`t deserve the support.”””’

    #agree armchair, tho l tend to prefer an indi, l`m also happy to back a greenz if they look likely of snatching a seat from the cults

  244. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:39 pm

    “It’s a fkn disgrace!”

    I’ve heard that before!

    Weird, sreb, as I hit the button .. I thought … I haven’t seen, sreb, for a while! And poing!

    Dooo .. doo .. doo … doo Twilight Zone!

    Is that where Wally lives?

  245. June 16, 2015 6:44 pm

    *poof* and I appear…

  246. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:44 pm

    Play the game expect the shame!

    Not sure what you are talking about. Our humanitarian program is for people fleeing from persecution. Raza Berati could not get a job in Iran so wanted to practise his profession in Australia.

    If Berati wanted to migrate to Australia we have other programs for skilled immigrants.

    It was your govt TB, who encouraged Berati to come by boat to Australia and locked him up.

    Nobody is being locked up by the Coalition any more. You TB are responsible for encouraging 50,000 people to come here by boat, $12B housing all these people, 1,200 drownings that we know of and most probably thousands we do not know about but worse, tens of thousands of desperate people in UNHCR camps who we would have taken under Howard were denied places in Australia.

    Other than destroying the lives of people why do you exist?

  247. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:44 pm

    Like as if you dont know ?????????????

    Tuck Thompson
    The Courier-Mail
    August 06, 2012 12:00AM

    LOL! You are supposed to be “qualified” … 2012 FFS!

    Times really have rolled on … just ’cause you can’t stick panels on yer Corporate Body controlled “apartment” with views … the usual sour grapes from the negative gearing crusader! How fkn I dare be involved in actually PRODUCING POWER for my state …

    LOL! All the way to the bank …

  248. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:48 pm

    “”Bullshit Bill” chooses his words carefully……….

    Indeed he does, as they both do.

    But I do agree with this …

    Carefully chosen words by Zombie Bill

    Why won’t yabot repeat them then?

    And there is a difference in paying informants … to paying perpetrators …

  249. June 16, 2015 6:55 pm

    ” … just ’cause you can’t stick panels on yer Corporate Body controlled “apartment” with views …”

    Astute observation, right there.

  250. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 6:58 pm

    It was your govt TB, who encouraged Berati to come by boat to Australia and locked him up.

    Yes, it was and I berated MY government for doing it!

    That’s the difference between you and me, Kneel … I acknowledge and criticise ALL the governments of this country … even the one’s I help to elect … YOU operate on BLIND FAITH …

    .. me I’m an agnostic … and I’m realising – a humanitarian …

    if China’s communism is so bad … why do we not see more refugees/asylum seekers from there? … the simple answer is government stability … think about the refugees and asylum seekers and their homelands and how difficult is to leave them (I can … as a 12 year old – and my parents emigrated voluntarily) … before you criticise them … and especially how we … a civilised and RICH nation … treat them …

  251. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 7:00 pm

    *poof* and I appear…

    Pardon?

  252. June 16, 2015 7:03 pm

    splattering”””I thought you might fancy the Greens, KL .. Greens think the (#1)world is overpopulated and they support (#2)voluntary euthanasia””””

    #while 1+2 is true, it is a good working example of a frightened mind that `links` (or-trys-to) them together. #not.related .. Didn`t have the nads to say ..

    Greens think gays should be allowed to marry and they support voluntary euthanasia #chicken-shit:-)

  253. Tom R permalink
    June 16, 2015 7:29 pm

    I see the greens and libs are in bed together to rip pensions off pensioners.

    Awkward that.

  254. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 16, 2015 7:49 pm

    if China’s communism is so bad … why do we not see more refugees/asylum seekers from there?

    We do. They come by plane. Most come on a student visa.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-15/chinese-fly-into-australia-to-make-27dodgy27-asylum-claims/3892416

    Last year more than 6,000 asylum seekers arrived by air. The largest group by far came from China, with much smaller numbers flying in from India and other south east Asian countries.

    While some might be legitimate, many are not and they are being supported by a network of corrupt officials from China to migration agents in Australia. ………………..What distinguishes the Chinese case load is that it’s endemic – it’s the norm with PRC applications to have some fraudulent content and for there to be some dodgy practices along the way,” she said.

    The Chinese enter on valid student, tourist or carer’s visas and once in the country apply for asylum.

    With the help of dubious migration agents they pose as persecuted Falun Gong practitioners or underground Christian worshippers.

  255. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 8:03 pm

    I see the greens and libs are in bed together to rip pensions off pensioners.

    Actually not true, TR, this will only affect part pensioners with over $1,000,000 in assets and a family home … those at the lower end will get more … most of us won’t be affected …

  256. TB Queensland permalink
    June 16, 2015 8:04 pm

    With the help of dubious migration agents they pose as persecuted Falun Gong practitioners or underground Christian worshippers.

    Then with the “help” of the SAFP and intelligence agencies they will be returned to China …

    Let’s stop the planes! 🙄

  257. June 16, 2015 8:15 pm

    For the cult-cheerer.

    elder”””today`s climate of fear that is throwing away important civil liberties with no real increase in safety. Tony Abbott has staked the survival of his government on a game of chicken(#teabag.panic) with the Labor Party, .. There are two problems with this.

    First, Labor seem up for such a game, which puts them into their traditional position of being Almost the Liberal Party,(#teabag.lite) i.e. a permanent opposition, rather than an alternative government.(#non.choice)

    Second, the game depends utterly upon there being no actual terrorist incidents, something that no amount of bipartisanship can guarantee.

    When Man Haron Monis took hostages in Martin Place last December”””

    http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/the-bomber-will-always-get-through.html

  258. June 16, 2015 8:29 pm

    Voluntary Euthanasia…should be my Fucking Choice , not a governmental intrusion into MY LIFE .

    The arguments against are either consquirtative (ala some I’ve seen YomM make in the past) or religiously rooted (no pun intended, and instantly dismissable as fables should have no bearing upon actual existence).

  259. June 16, 2015 8:38 pm

    ao”””I saw qanda (#too) .. #bronny .. looked very unhappy and uncomfortable .. She looked particularly bitter when gillian triggs strongly defended her role and duty, receiving audience applause”””’

    #l also noticed the bronny-zombie only merely regurgitates the approved zombie-talk points and teabag-theory. One thing l watch for on shows like qandaland is, do they actually say anything `new` or expand beyond the usual blather. Unfortunately bronny never seems to. Triggs did a pretty good job shoving it up the teabags too l thought.

  260. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 8:56 pm

    …This is why gutless labor shits me. Do you think that possible culpability of his own side would stop abbott from going for the jugular? Granted, abbott does have the media running dead on anything embarrassing for him, but still, no guts no glory labor…

    Love how the australian and coalition sympathisers get these highly classified security leaks dropped – why isn’t the ‘senior intelligence source’ up before a court right now for disclosing security secrets?

    People smuggler payment claims: Labor backs away from pursuit of Coalition:
    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jun/16/people-smuggler-payment-claims-labor-backs-away-from-pursuit-of-coalition

    The Australian reported that spies and police working in Indonesia on behalf of Australian had been paying informers in people-smuggling rings as far back as 2001. The Daily Telegraph said it had been told by a “senior intelligence source” that the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (Asis) may have made payments.

  261. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:09 pm

    I’ve only outlined my misgivings about euthanasia, I remain in 2 minds about it.

    Mainly because I’m concerned about how legalisation conditions people about acceptance of it.

  262. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:13 pm

    Once again Rudd comes across as more intelligent, decent and capable than Gillard

  263. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:38 pm

    Mainly because I’m concerned about how legalisation conditions people about acceptance of it…

    Shouldn’t it be accepted and totally understood by society?

    The daily telegraph is the PM’s paper of choice for leaks apparently, he does it before his own cabinet hears about the brainfarts policies.
    The PMO publicly disclosing national security secrets, abbott must be above our laws.

    I consider his residing at the AFP barracks to be a conflict of interest in the separation of powers, who knows what devious little plots are devised behind those closed doors!

  264. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 9:48 pm

    Well, he did successfully prosecute that spycatcher case!

  265. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:10 pm

    It is possible that legalisation of euthanasia would cause some the elderly to consider it.

    It wouldn’t be contemplated by my elderly mother (for example) while it is illegal, it’s possible that a change in this status would encourage her to think about it.

    I’m not really sure that’s a good thing.

  266. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:27 pm

    …It is possible that legalisation of euthanasia would cause some the elderly to consider it.
    It wouldn’t be contemplated by my elderly mother (for example) while it is illegal, it’s possible that a change in this status would encourage her to think about it…

    Are you scared of your mother making up her own mind about her end of life?

    Surely it is her decision to make at any time? She should feel encouraged to think deeply about it and then discuss her feelings with her family. You might learn something!

    ‘Totally trashing the tradition’: Former Speaker Anna Burke hits out at successor Bronwyn Bishop over Q&A appearance:
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/totally-trashing-the-tradition-former-speaker-anna-burke-hits-out-at-successor-bronwyn-bishop-over-qa-appearance-20150616-ghp7j5.html

    …Ms Burke said that people had a right to expect that the Speaker would “not go out and take a political stance on the issues of the day that will then appear before the House”.

    “How can you then be judging those issues impartially?”

    Ms Burke said that the member for Mackellar “used her position for political purposes” on Q&A.

    “That is totally trashing the tradition that we’re meant to be upholding.”…

  267. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:37 pm

    Are you scared of your mother making up her own mind about her end of life?

    No, but she is very attuned to “the vibe” or what she considers to be her interpretation of the feelings of others, she will interpret signals where there may be none intended.

    She wouldn’t contemplate this, but legalising it would cause her to consider it. I’m not sure I want her considering it.

  268. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    June 16, 2015 10:39 pm

    …she would become very attuned to a perception that she is “a burden”

  269. June 16, 2015 10:51 pm

    boo-of-melb”””I`m not really sure that`s a good thing.”””

    ln your case it is probably better for you to remain frightened of voluntary euthanasia as the squirters recommend, it is a highly complex and difficult topic having people exercise `their` choice. We can`t go letting people go around exercising `their` choice, else where will it end. The next thing women will want `their` choice on being pregnant, or gays will want to exercise `their` choice of spouse.

  270. June 16, 2015 11:17 pm

    after episode-2 of `killing-season` on my abc, jooLiar, swan and blib come out looking like grubs, nanny-roxon however didn`t, she claims she was taken by surprise but it does make me wonder, as nanny-roxon was one of the pro-joolya big mouths claiming all the `dis-array` the kevin07 regime was in.

    The squeaky-clean one was `albo`, you know, the guy caucus rejected in favor of blib. One of the points of interest is, at the time of the knifing, kevin07 claims he/`team` was able to win the next election at 52%. True/False??

    The back-room boys looked grubby, tho not as grubby as l had assumed, but everybody has ended-up looking grubbier than kevin07. Everybody except albo the caucus reject, of course.

    Tune in next Tuesday to my abc for the 3rd and final team-rabble blood-bath.

  271. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 17, 2015 3:27 am

    Look at these retards

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/sign-offshore-detention-petition/story-e6frfku9-1227401006387

    MORE than 65,000 Australians have signed a petition to shut down offshore asylum seeker detention centres in Nauru and Papua New Guinea.

    Why didn’t these people do this when Rudd/Gillard were in power???

  272. Tom R permalink
    June 17, 2015 7:09 am

    … most of us won’t be affected …

    I guess it depends on what you consider “most”

    It cited modelling from Industry Super Australia that found the cuts would affect half of all workers due to retire in the next decade — more than a million people — including almost 330,000 part-pensioners who would feel the cuts immediately.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-16/budget-opposition-will-not-support-pension-changes/6549538

    or

    “The Coalition’s pension changes will hit the middle class and leave upper class welfare unchecked, writes Sally Patten.”

    “The Abbott government’s proposed pension changes could be construed as making much-needed cuts to middle-class welfare. It’s just that they leave upper-class welfare unchecked – and people have started to cotton on.

    “The changes will absolutely hit middle-income earners. These are, by and large, not rich people,” says Ian Yates, chief executive of The Council for the Ageing (COTA) of the planned changes announced in the budget.

    “Very wealthy people are not hurt at all because they are not on the age pension,” adds David Knox, a partner at Mercer, a pensions and superannuation consultancy.”

    http://www.afr.com/personal-finance/superannuation-and-smsfs/how-the-pension-changes-hit-the-middle-class-20150522-gh6iov

    The Greens have been sold a pup. Then again, Labor have made more than enough unholy deals with this mob also.

  273. TB Queensland permalink
    June 17, 2015 8:26 am

    “That is totally trashing the tradition that we’re meant to be upholding.”…

    Why does it take people with some influence so long to figure things out?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    “Very wealthy people are not hurt at all because they are not on the age pension,” adds David Knox, a partner at Mercer, a pensions and superannuation consultancy.”

    And that’s the Labor proposal … it too needs to be enacted … just like:

    Family trusts

    Multinationals

    Negative gearing

    Pollie perqs

  274. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 17, 2015 8:54 am

    “The Abbott government’s proposed pension changes could be construed as making much-needed cuts to middle-class welfare.

    Isn’t that what you lefties said should be done?

  275. Tom R permalink
    June 17, 2015 9:13 am

    Isn’t that what you lefties said should be done?

    Personally, I don’t want it to be “construed” so much as to be ACTUALLY cuts to middle-class welfare

    Cutting JUST the middle-class while maintaining the extravagance for the rich is totally wrong.

  276. Tom R permalink
    June 17, 2015 9:13 am

    I truly hope this is the media being dicks again.

    The West Australian understands Labor is preparing to harden its stance on asylum seekers significantly amid fears the coalition is gearing up to paint the Opposition as soft on border security for the poll.

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/national/a/28477098/labor-to-turn-back-boats/

  277. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 17, 2015 9:26 am

    Cutting JUST the middle-class while maintaining the extravagance for the rich is totally wrong.

    I guess the very rich don’t get a pension so there is nothing to cut.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/labor-the-lonely-champion-of-millionaire-pensioners-as-greens-back-government-deal-to-redirect-pensions-to-the-poor/story-fnpn118l-1227401175019

    LABOR has been left the lone champion of millionaire welfare recipients after a landmark deal was stuck last night between government and the Greens to redirect pensions to the poor.

    More than 170,000 of Australia’s poorest pensioners will have their pension increased by $30 a fortnight in the wake of the decision.

    The deal has rendered Opposition Leader Bill Shorten’s bizarre move to block the changes irrelevant.

  278. Tom R permalink
    June 17, 2015 9:32 am

    I guess the very rich don’t get a pension so there is nothing to cut.

    But they still receive massive entitlements, which the libs, and now the Greens, will leave untouched.

  279. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 17, 2015 9:32 am

    So true!

    And then they have the audacity to bleat about the drug epidemic and “go and get a good, well paying job” if you want to own your own house, even though the entire system is stacked against you.

    [Gittins] Politicians betray young while pandering to older home owners:
    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/politicians-betray-young-while-pandering-to-older-home-owners-20150616-ghoxhn.html

    …When I see the way the Abbott government – like its Labor predecessor – happily presides over a system stacked against the younger generation, it makes me wonder why they’re not rioting in the streets. Answer is, it’s thanks to the evil genius of our politicians…

    …If I were a youngster I mightn’t be rioting in the streets, but I certainly wouldn’t be voting for any party that wasn’t promising to fix negative gearing. If you’re more afraid of greedy oldies than you are of me, I’ll be voting against you…

    TB, The Greens have a policy to reform negative gearing.

    http://greens.org.au/node/11315

  280. Walrus permalink
    June 17, 2015 9:54 am

    “I suspect you bleed this country of welfare that you really have never earned or don’t deserve, you’re bitter and a very nasty neighbour and person … quite the opposite of Reza Berati …….”

    And how the f**k would you know what Reza Berati was like ?

    Back to the crystal ball gazing again.

    And as far as solar energy is concerned only a true fucktard would deny they are subsidised by other taxpayers…………………..oh yes……..I just realised who I was directing this at

    As far as Welfare is concerned you got some nerve. You get on here and bleat about how wonderful you are being a self funded retiree and later start talking about pension changes not affecting you. Clearly you are not fully SFR.

    So stop claiming to be one.

    YES ……………………I FEEL BETTER NOW !

  281. Neil of Sydney permalink
    June 17, 2015 10:12 am

    quite the opposite of Reza Berati …….”

    Everybody knows the name of the guy who died when the Coalition was in power (although locked up be Labor). Lots of candlelight vigils and marches by lefties.

    Can anybody tell me the names of the 12 people who died in detention under Rudd/Gillard??

  282. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 17, 2015 10:20 am

  283. Walrus permalink
    June 17, 2015 10:31 am

    KL links to a bloke in Rome who has a fundamental non belief in Science claiming we must embrace Science.

    Now I’ve seen it all !

  284. TB Queensland permalink
    June 17, 2015 3:24 pm

    Clearly you are not fully SFR.

    Not since I turned 65 ya Walloper … retirement in this country is based on TWO pillars at the moment (1) personal super; and (2) age pension … don’t you read the news?

    And it will be like that until the Liberals get off their arses and increase compulsory super to 12% (preferably 15%) … instead of putting it on the back-burner and then bleating that we can’t afford the age pension … (something I paid HIGHER taxes for until 1992 – or 29 years…

    I then owned a small business and paid 49% in the dollar personal tax for two and of course business tax – something I believe you are familiar with. So after a total of 45 years paying HIGH taxes I don’t need nerve. I just need a good financial planner – ME!

    Like most retirees over 65 I supplement my super with a part pension (not suck the system dry like you and your clients) … and I actually told you and others here when I received a part pension AND WHY!

    And as far as solar energy is concerned only a true fucktard would deny they are subsidised by other taxpayers…………………..oh yes……..I just realised who I was directing this at

    More stupidity … people are still installing systems … for between $4-6000, you can provide all the power you need … and be paid for supplying power to the grid – that other people pay for … amortise your cost over 6-7 years and you have virtually power for life!

    WTF do you do for a living again?

    Thick as … or what … I know who’s bleating – and blubbering … get over it … fucktard, LOL!

    I don’t need to feel better … 😉

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    KL links to a bloke in Rome who has a fundamental non belief in Science claiming we must embrace Science.

    As usual misses the real message …

    Pope Francis: We’re on a path “to Not Only Destroy Creation but Humanity as Well”

  285. June 17, 2015 3:44 pm

    “KL links to a bloke in Rome who has a fundamental non belief in Science claiming we must embrace Science.”

    I’m pretty sure the Pope has some sort of degree in chemistry (seriously). Not that that negates his ludicrous, utterly unscientific ‘faith’ in magical dogma or the Institution of which he is patriarch & the ‘chosen’ voice on Earth of a fantasy being.

  286. Tom R permalink
    June 17, 2015 4:04 pm

  287. June 17, 2015 4:08 pm

    “Now I’ve seen it all !”

    Yep. John Howard, Rupert Murdoch, and Pope Francis have all at some staged professed their faith in the Church of Climatology. The Ghastly Trio.

  288. Walrus permalink
    June 17, 2015 4:26 pm

    Yes ToSy the Church of Climatology has as its crucifix a Windmill sitting at the top of a hill.

    LOL

  289. Walrus permalink
    June 17, 2015 4:34 pm

    “Under the PM’s deal with the Greens, a single age pensioner with an income less than $25k will lose $8,200 every year. ”

    And exactly how much cash/assets o/s family home do they have…………..conveniently missed that tit bit

  290. Walrus permalink
    June 17, 2015 4:36 pm

    Tanya P……………………….a special kind of crazy resides in her skull

  291. TB Queensland permalink
    June 17, 2015 6:29 pm

    Hey Wally!

    Here’s another Wally for you! (Absofknlutely hilararious – another Wally and appears smart – who woulda thunk!)

    http://thesmartmoney.com.au/pension-changes-2015-budget/

    The comments are very interesting too … “we have two properties if we sold one how would Centrelink see it …..”

    One thing that a lot of retirees of pension age and pensioners don’t see is that the pension + super is TAX FREE!

    If you have an net income of $40K what would your gross income be? Sir Walter?

    (FYI the full pension for a couple homeowners is … as at 30/06/2015 – $33716.80)

    http://www.humanservices.gov.au/spw/customer/publications/resources/rt010/rt010-1503en.pdf

    I see the pension (or part thereof) as a foundation, superannuation as the structure …

    Just sayin’ …

  292. TB Queensland permalink
    June 17, 2015 6:46 pm

    And BTW …

    QUEENSLANDER!

    GO MAROONS!

    .

  293. June 17, 2015 7:08 pm

    So all the Pope’s crap about abortion, homosexuality, contraception, celibacy, euthanasia, jesus, beatification etc must also be invalid?

    Just as I suspected.

    Also, where does this leave George Pell & his stances?! I she ‘bigger’ than god’s own chosen man on Earth?! He seems to have gone ‘off message’ on AGW.

    Could it be that they’re both just opinionated men, masquerading as messengers of humancentric fantasy god?

  294. June 17, 2015 7:09 pm

    * Is he…not, I she

  295. June 17, 2015 7:10 pm

    I love it when the ‘divine emissaries’ contradict each other.

    As always, in whiskey & weed & Slayer We Trust.

  296. armchair opinionator permalink
    June 17, 2015 9:27 pm

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