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Lawyers the only winners in Joe Hockey’s Defamation Case

July 22, 2015

Capture

Oh, the ignominy of it all, Federal Treasurer Joe Hockey has been left red faced and out of pocket to the tune of $340,000 after “winning” a defamation case against Fairfax Media over its “Treasurer for Sale” article.

Federal Court Judge Richard White ruled on Wednesday that Fairfax, publisher of The Australian Financial Review, should pay a mere 15 per cent of Mr Hockey’s legal costs.

Justice White said his assessment took into account Mr Hockey’s limited success in relation to the SMH and The Age and the failure of his claim against The Canberra Times.

The amount is to be payable by the SMH and The Age, while his proceedings against the Canberra Times were dismissed with no order as to costs.

“HOCKEY FAILED” SAYS JUDGE
“It is plain that Mr Hockey is not entitled to his costs in full against the SMH and The Age as in those proceedings he failed on the matters which were the real core of his claim,” Justice White said.

“Had Mr Hockey sued only on the SMH poster and the two tweets of The Age, the proceedings would have been much more confined and, possibly, may not have involved a trial at all.”

Mr Hockey failed on a number of legal and factual issues in the trial, Justice White said.

The court ruled in June that Mr Hockey was defamed in a Sydney Morning Herald poster and in two tweets by The Age which labelled him as a “Treasurer for Sale” – but dismissed his claims about the articles themselves.

Mr Hockey’s legal team had sought for Fairfax to pay the entirety of the his legal costs on an indemnity basis, while each side paid their own costs in relation to the Canberra Times publications, which were not found to be defamatory.

Alternatively, Mr Hockey’s team argued if the publications were to be assessed together, Fairfax should pay 90 to 95 per cent of Mr Hockey’s costs.

Fairfax argued Mr Hockey should pay 60 per cent of its costs. Indemnity costs would be “manifestly unfair” given Mr Hockey lost the majority of his claims.

Mr Hockey’s submission for a permanent injunction to restrain Fairfax from re-publishing the defamatory imputations found to have been conveyed by the poster and the tweets, was also rejected by Justice White.

Speaking generally, Griffith University professor Mark Pearson said speaking generally of defamation actions, prospective plaintiffs must bear in mind a victory in a defamation action did not necessarily mean a victory financially.

“Too often people’s pride and ego are driving defamation. Some people rush into action because they overlook court costs involved,” Mr Pearson said.

“It could well be that your award of damages is much less that the costs you have to pay.”

Plaintiffs also had to weigh up the risk of further damage to their reputation in  pursuing legal action.

“Everything comes out in a defamation case and normally there are few winners.”

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391 Comments leave one →
  1. TB Queensland permalink
    July 22, 2015 4:34 pm

    Stupid is …

    Laughinglylaughablestupidity!!

    Fuckwits® at work play …

    Whose running the country again?

    Weren’t JHockstrap’s costs estimated at $500,000?

    That means he’ll have to pay 500,000 – $75,000 = $450,000

    He won $200,000 damages so that comes off the $450,000 so he’ll still end up PAYING $250,000!

    What a dopey prick … and he’s in charge of the country’s “treasure” … we need to get rid of him … can we sell him to Greece?

  2. TB Queensland permalink
    July 22, 2015 4:40 pm

    No, no, no, its even better worse for JHockstrap!

    Given Hockey’s legal bills were estimated to be $1m, the 15% in costs will give him about $150,000. Combined with his $200,000 damages payment the treasurer could be left about $650,000 out of pocket by the defamation action. The case will have cost Fairfax Media about $1.35m.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jul/22/treasurer-for-sale-defamation-case-fairfax-must-pay-15-of-hockeys-costs

    I suppose JHockstrap will see that as a moral victory …

    As the saying goes – couldn’t happen to a nicer bloke …

  3. July 22, 2015 5:58 pm
  4. TB Queensland permalink
    July 22, 2015 6:04 pm

    “By my calculations that’s about half, which seems fair”, said the Treasurer.

    Half? Fkn half?

    The Treasurer should be sold to the lowest bidder … half? WTF?

    Buy the fkkr a calculator!

  5. July 22, 2015 6:49 pm

    I think that was meant to be a joke TB. *rolls eyes*

  6. Tom R permalink
    July 22, 2015 7:24 pm

    I think that was meant to be a joke TB

    In all honesty, with this mob, you just don’t know where the jokes end and the grubmint begins.

    I mean, I heard that yabot was going to meet the State Premiers in a police barracks rather than Kirribilli as usual

    Turns out he did 😯

    Perhaps his daughter was having a sleep over or something?

  7. TB Queensland permalink
    July 22, 2015 7:30 pm

    A joke? The whole fkn set up is a joke … nice to see one on JHockstrap rather than the lifters …

    Don’t you know how to do this yet, sreb? 🙄

    That’s a real worry from a seasoned and salted blogmeister …

  8. TB Queensland permalink
    July 22, 2015 7:30 pm

    Has The Mad Abbott got some sort of uniform fetish or what?

  9. Tom R permalink
    July 22, 2015 7:40 pm

    Has The Mad Abbott got some sort of uniform fetish

    Does Howdy Doody have wooden 🙂 🙂 ‘s

  10. Tom R permalink
    July 22, 2015 7:44 pm

    should pay a mere 15 per cent of Mr Hockey’s legal costs.

    And hockey thinks we should pay a mere 15 per cent of Goods and Services costs.

    You Know It Makes Sense.

  11. July 22, 2015 8:01 pm

    ha-ha, great to see eleventy end-up in the `discount`bin

    (my abc tv-news reported eleventy`s legal fees were estimated north of a million bucks)

    #suck.it.up.teabags

  12. July 22, 2015 8:21 pm

    Did anybody else watch tonights reportland,

    blib was on for a considerable chunk of the time, and sales asked blib pretty much all the questions blib really needs to answer if he wants any hope of winning back the voters-lost since knifing kevin07, l recommend you lot check out the transcript tomorrow when it comes online.

    #from my point of view, blib faffed about, and blathered, didn`t really have convincing answers to those that `needed` proper `direct` answers, for those of us well outside the `team-tent`.

    #if blib remains with the current non-answers he gave tonight, l predict the greenz will be quite happy.

  13. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 22, 2015 8:50 pm

    If you enter politics i guess you have to put up with people telling lies about you. How they put up with it is beyond me. I guess we should be grateful that there are some people willing to put up with being abused. Same goes for referees in cricket, soccer rugby etc.

    Hockey most probably should have got up and abused the SMH for what they said about him and then tell them to sue him if they disagreed with what he said.

  14. July 22, 2015 8:58 pm

    not to mention looking like the national`sook` for trying to `sue` when your own `team` has screeched so strongly for `free-hate-speech` and getting rid of 18c

    #Losing.makes.him.look.the.full.fcukwit

  15. Tom R permalink
    July 22, 2015 9:50 pm

    #from my point of view

    ROFL

  16. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 22, 2015 9:59 pm

    not to mention looking like the national`sook` for trying to `sue`

    Agreed.

    And what happens when someone else tells lies about Hockey? If he does not sue people will think the lies are true. Hockey made a mistake by suing. However it obviously got him upset. How they put up with the abuse is beyond me.

  17. July 22, 2015 10:07 pm

    cheerers of teams won`t be ROFL-ing much once we get the transcript,

    just coz certain cheerers inside the `team-tent` are `happy`, `well-not-really-happy`, with blib, they overlook they are only 40% of those inside the `team-tent`, and forget 60% inside the `team-tent` chose albo, not blib

    #yaaaaay.blib

  18. July 22, 2015 11:13 pm

    test

  19. July 22, 2015 11:21 pm

    L””EIGH SALES: In hindsight do you have any regrets about your role in the ousting of both Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard?

    BILL SHORTEN: They were difficult times. I regret that we didn’t explain more what was going on.

    #and here blib starts faffing

    #`we didn`t explain more` is a fcuking crap answer to knifing the gough-like popular kevin07, THE VOTERS CHOICE in his first term

    LEIGH SALES: What about you personally, though?

    BILL SHORTEN: Well I’m going to that. But what I also believe is that I regret the instability and all of the circumstances which saw Labor more distracted and absorbed by ourselves. I regret that we looked as if we were more focused on ourselves than the Australian people but I can assure you, and you’ve seen it as a seasoned observer yourself over the last two years, since I became leader, the Labor Party has been far more united than ever and I think when we go to the fundamental issue of trust, who on Earth is ever going to trust Mr Abbott’s Liberals to keep an election promise. This is an important point.

    #still not convincing

    #`united` in opposition is fine, with a history of `self-imploding` once in power doesn`t build confidence among voters

    LEIGH SALES: Sorry, I just don’t want to move off that because I do want to try to help people understand what went on there because they’re trying to figure out if they want to vote for you. So I just want to return to that point about your own personal role in both of those Rudd and Gillard matters. Do you have any regrets about the decisions you yourself made personally?

    BILL SHORTEN: I certainly believe, if given our time again, the Labor Party should have explained what was going on –

    LEIGH SALES: I’m not asking about our, I’m asking about you?

    BILL SHORTEN: I’m certainly part of the Labor Party so that goes for me as well. They were very difficult times but I think that the big lesson which I and the Labor Party have learnt, is that disunity is death in politics and I think that the Labor Party has shown a far greater degree of unity, which is the sort of the green fee you pay to enter the political process with the Australian people and I believe the Labor Party is going through its most united period in decades which is nothing less than Australian people should expect from us. But your question –

    LEIGH SALES: Given your direct hand in the knifing of Rudd and Gillard, does it keep you awake at night that you can never be sure when one of your trusted allies might be coming for you?

    #l repeat””Given your direct hand in the knifing of Rudd””

    BILL SHORTEN: Leigh, you know, you use those adjectives and it’s all, you know, designed to paint a picture. I’m making it very clear to you and to the Australian people.

    #history does paint a picture while blib faffs

    LEIGH SALES: It’s what politics is like though, isn’t it?

    BILL SHORTEN: Well I’m making it very clear to you and the Australian people, that I and the party I lead, have learned the price you pay for disunity and looking like you’re more focused on yourselves.

    LEIGH SALES: Do you believe in the adage live by the sword, die by the sword.

    BILL SHORTEN: Leigh, you’ve certainly asked several times about trust, I would like it if I could just explain this final proposition.

    LEIGH SALES: Please do.

    BILL SHORTEN: I will be as brief as I can. I’ve made it clear that when it comes to workplace relations, I will put my record up against Mr Abbott’s. I’ve made it clear when it comes to instability in the ranks of the Labor Party during the period of Prime Minister’s Rudd and Gillard there was a terrible time and the Labor Party has learned a lesson which will last a generation, I believe. But when we talk about trust there is also this proposition, who do you trust in terms of the future of Australia? You’ve got a Prime Minister and a Government who is stuck firmly in the past.

    They haven’t kept their election promises. They said there would be no cuts to health or education , that was clearly not the case now. They said there will be no increase in taxes and they’re gagging to introduce a GST and put it on a whole range of items where there’s no tax paid and what we also see when it comes to the future is Labor is offering a positive plan for the future. We talk about renewable energy. We talk about restoring our proper funding to universities. We believe in a needs based funding of schools. When it comes to education, hospitals, when it comes to renewable energy, when it comes to fairness and indeed the most important question of jobs, we have a plan for the future and that’s what Australians want to hear. They don’t like the tit-for-tat negativity which has occupied politics for such a long period of time now.

    #and after this long-form blather from blib, voters/viewers cannot be guaranteed the `team` won`t end-up knifing pm-blib if it suits them

    #greenz must be loving blib about now

    LEIGH SALES: Bill Shorten, thank you very much for your time this evening.

    BILL SHORTEN: Thanks very much Leigh.

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4278983.htm

  20. July 23, 2015 12:01 am

    #after much blathering on boat-people

    LEIGH SALES: But Mr Shorten it was your judgment that you didn’t want to try turn backs then and now you’re saying turn backs would make a difference?

    BILL SHORTEN””Well I’m leader now and after a lot of looking at the question and working with my Shadow Cabinet team and the Shadow Immigration spokesperson, Richard Marles, I can no longer escape the conclusion that Labor, if we form a government, needs to have all the options on the table. We’re committed to regional resettlement.””

    #blib finally answers and

    blib””I should also say, and that would include boat turn backs as an option,””

    #blib reckons he will keep `turn-backs`

    #fcuk, it`s like yanking teeth aint it

    blib””where safe to do so, but I also have to say that I believe that the challenge of dealing with refugees and supporting and being humane – being a humane nation, doesn’t just start at the low watermark of our shoreline. We will have more to say in coming days about being willing to support more refugees and to take up our burden internationally””

    #so on boat `turn-backs` blib will be teabag-lite

    #and on `team`discipline blib cannot reassure voters/viewers that his team has learned a damn thing, meaning, electing a pm-blib, will not mean voters will keep a pm-blib

  21. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 8:59 am

    LEIGH SALES: It’s what politics is like though, isn’t it?

    Of course it is. When will ANY political correspondents ask yabot “Given your direct hand in the knifing of [insert lib leader here] ”

    voters/viewers cannot be guaranteed the `team` won`t end-up knifing pm-blib if it suits them

    It has always been thus.

    #fcuk, it`s like yanking teeth aint it

    You understand this had been announced earlier (for good or for bad (yes, it is for bad)). I also just watched the vid, and, ……..yea, really teamdumbass, where do you get your impressions from. Oh yea, that’s right, your innate hatred of the here and now. Here’s her very forst question, and yea, “pulling teeth”? You idiot!

    LEIGH SALES: Why is Labor finally agreeing to turn back the boats?

    BILL SHORTEN: Because Labor wants to defeat the people smugglers and we want to prevent drownings at sea. And therefore one of the options which we believe has to be on the table, if we’re given the privilege of forming a Government, has to be the option to turn back boats.

    Your blinkers have fallen down right over your eyes, and ears too apparently.

    We’re committed to regional resettlement.

    And they are now legally able to implement a Malaysian solution from my understanding of the laws that have been passed. Sleep on that Greens.

    The boats turn back is a no win ever for Shorten. 70% of the population support it. Labor cannot win without playing into the wedge. But, now they have played into that, what is the next atrocity yabot and his team of torturers device as the next wedge? No matter how far Labor capitulate to try and take it off the table, the libs will sink further into the muck and drag Labor further down with them.

    My only hope is that Labor remove the secrecy and, once we see the misery the boat turn backs has created, it will once again become unpalatable for the population at large.

  22. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 9:01 am

    lolz

  23. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 23, 2015 11:22 am

  24. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 23, 2015 11:31 am

  25. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 23, 2015 11:31 am

  26. Walrus permalink
    July 23, 2015 11:41 am

    “…………it will once again become unpalatable for the population at large.”

    Yes…………..just like Sarah Pants On Bong you prefer to watch people drown

  27. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 23, 2015 11:44 am

  28. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 23, 2015 11:49 am

    Yes…………..just like Sarah Pants On Bong you prefer to watch people drown

    No, as burnside says, it’s never been about saving people from drowning [that’s the comfort the apologists for inhumanity cling to] , it’s about keeping them away.

    She’d be right.

  29. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 23, 2015 12:01 pm

  30. Walrus permalink
    July 23, 2015 12:06 pm

    “………..it’s never been about saving people from drowning [that’s the comfort the apologists for inhumanity cling to]………”

    Yes………….Yes……………….I agree

    Let’s be more principled about our approach.

    Bring on the drownings.

    At least we will feel better about it.

    After all in the words of Sarah Rants On Bong………..”accidents happen”

  31. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 23, 2015 12:25 pm

    In 2007 there were only 6 boat people in detention. In 2013 there were thousands on men women and children in labors detention centers. Thousands of people from UNHCR camps were denied places in Australia, replaced by people with $$$$$$10,000.

    And this is an abomination brought to you by the ALP and the people who voted for Rudd in 2007

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/07/31/young-looking-refugees-sent-offshore

    Young-looking children were chosen to be transferred to the harsh Manus Island refugee detention centre to discourage other refugees from coming to Australia, an inquiry has heard….Gregory Lake, the former director of offshore processing and transfers at the Department of Immigration and Border Protection, told the inquiry he was directed by a ministerial staff member to choose the youngest-looking children from among those eligible for the first transfer of detained people from Australia to Manus Island in 2012, when Labor was in government.

  32. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 12:55 pm

    Anna Burke says voters might abandon Labor over turnbacks

    I’m sure she is right AO. But I’m also sure that Labor would lose more votes if the didn’t.

    I’m upset that they aren’t making a stand though, because all this will do is encourage the libs to go further.

    Deaths are still happening,and, under a Labor turn back policy, you can be sure the media will be there for every splash (as it should)

    Labor will get burnt by this. Better to suffer the backlash now.

    Maybe the left will win out? I don’t think so though. Even they want to keep their seats.

  33. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 1:00 pm

    Sarah Rants On Bong had an opportunity to be a part of a regional solution. She (and her party) killed that in their desire to live in a idyllic paradise that just doesn’t and can’t exist.

    Not when you want a solution working with regional partners with different societal structure.

  34. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 1:01 pm

    Wow, where was this little doozey during the whole “it’s a Carbon Tax” bullshit.

  35. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 23, 2015 1:07 pm

    …I’m upset that they aren’t making a stand though, because all this will do is encourage the libs to go further…

    That’s the issue tomR, how far is labor prepared to go in order not to be wedged by the libs. Abbott will push and push and look where labor’s capitulation has got us on civil liberties and the fascist state.

    Surely there comes a point where Labor says no, that’s a bridge too far, but it doesn’t look like it. Is it going to be down, down, down with the arsehole party and who cares about the consequences?

    That’s no way to run a country

  36. Walrus permalink
    July 23, 2015 1:07 pm

    “Labor will get burnt by this.”

    I disagree.

    The ALP cannot “out Green” the Greens. That’s why Albanese and Pliberalsex are worried in their inner City Seats over Gay Marriage, Boat People, and Motorway developments.

    And they should be very worried.

    A tough Boat policy appeals to the higher ethnic areas in Sydney’s outer West (cant speak for other cities) as the ethnics out that way mainly immigrated via “invitation” or via PR and they resent Boat People

  37. Splatterbottom permalink
    July 23, 2015 1:12 pm

    At least there are some honest leftists left:

    People are better off dead than in detention centres in Indonesia or Malaysia, Manus island or Nauru.

    The only option now is to vote green.

    I don’t know why leftists want refugees dead. They should do the world a favour and kill themselves instead.

  38. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 1:15 pm

    I disagree.

    I was referring to when they are in power (should it ever happen) and they turn a boat back. There will a media team following every little detail, and ramping it up to the most obscene levels, forgetting that they accepted “on water matters” previously.

    Of course, Labor should open it up, so people can see the reality, but Labor will cop the flak for it.

    As long as people are treated like mushrooms with immigrants, they just don’t care.

    Surely there comes a point where Labor says no, that’s a bridge too far

    Surely turning back boats on the high seas would have been it. Will we also being paying people smugglers to smuggle people back out of country under Labor like the libs have done? Will they become pirates also?

  39. TB Queensland permalink
    July 23, 2015 1:31 pm

    Yea! The LIEberal Party!

    Just in!

    T,

    Tomorrow the Labor Party’s National Conference begins in Melbourne.

    It’s the opportunity for Bill Shorten to finally demonstrate that Labor has changed.

    To do so, Bill Shorten must:
    * Stand up to Labor’s Left and the Greens and reject plans to reintroduce a job-destroying Carbon Tax;

    * Stand up to Labor’s Left and the Greens by supporting ALL the Coalition’s successful border security policies, including Temporary Protection Visas;

    * Stand up to the union bosses and break their influence over the Labor Party, and support the Coalition’s policies to end the thuggery and lawlessness of unions such as the CFMEU;

    * Finally give details of exactly how Labor will pay for their $52 billion in unfunded spending promises; and

    * Detail Labor’s plans to get the Budget back in balance and reduce the massive levels of debt Labor created.

    In recent weeks it has become clear that Labor has not changed and remains committed to the same policies, deals and outside influences which gave us the six disastrous years of Rudd/Gillard/Shorten chaos.

    The fact is Labor’s got too much baggage.

    Labor has not changed.

    Bill Shorten is not a leader.

    Very positive and adult! Go The Mad Abbott!

  40. TB Queensland permalink
    July 23, 2015 1:44 pm

    People are better off dead than in detention centres in Indonesia or Malaysia, Manus island or Nauru.

    Fuckwits are Fuckwits … and not limited to one political party … but what sort of nation are we becoming? What must be going on in such a moron’s mind to actually write such inane, ill informed comments?

    Once again the world is being infested by political, corporate and religious ideologies that simply want to control people …

    Eventually the dams will break …

  41. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 1:58 pm

    support the Coalition’s policies to end the thuggery and lawlessness of unions such as the CFMEU

    Is this the same CFMEU who got fined millions for blockading a company who soon ended up killing people because of poor safety?

  42. TB Queensland permalink
    July 23, 2015 2:05 pm

    Dunno, TR, I’m just a Gutter Trash journo … I can’t reveal my sources … aw fk! If I don’t I’ll go to jail …

    OK, contact the Liberal Party and they’ll tell you …

  43. Walrus permalink
    July 23, 2015 2:07 pm

    “Is this the same CFMEU who got fined millions for blockading a company who soon ended up killing people because of poor safety?”

    Yes its this CFMEU………

    “……………….Earlier this year, Collier pleaded guilty to a charge of assault. His victim was a woman. He was scheduled to appear in court on Monday on multiple charges, including aggravated assault, involving the same woman………….Collier is an official for the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union. His conduct has received plenty of attention in the royal commission into union corruption.

    The majority of CFMEU members get on with their work but elements of the union engage in intimidation, violence and other criminal activities. Coercion is a systemic problem in the construction industry.

    The royal commission into union corruption, under former High Court justice Dyson Heydon, has published evidence of Collier’s intimidation of women on work sites on several occasions………….”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/one-more-police-backdown-over-violence-against-women-20150722-gii5jl.html#ixzz3ggUHrzty

  44. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 2:34 pm

    but elements of the union engage in …

    Unsavoury behaviour, as does many people in a wide variety of jobs.

    But, considering sheehan was the one who wrote about another CFMEU member and being stripped from White Ribbon Foundation , I’ll take it with a grain.

  45. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 23, 2015 3:50 pm

    Will we also being paying people smugglers to smuggle people back out of country under Labor like the libs have done?

    Link?

  46. Walrus permalink
    July 23, 2015 4:03 pm

    “Link?”

    NoS………you know you’ll just get a link to the Socialist Alliance Newsletter

  47. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 23, 2015 4:34 pm

    CFMEU isn’t interested in safety. they’re interested in getting cushy jibs for lazy delegates that ate otherwise unemployable.

    That’s what the dispute with Grocon was about.

    Tom R, do you think workers should be entitled to choose/ elect their own safety reps?

  48. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 23, 2015 4:35 pm

    “are”

  49. July 23, 2015 5:22 pm

    boo-of.melb””do you think workers should be entitled to choose/elect their own safety reps?””’

    2319 .. numb-nuts is corporate deep-throating again .. of course `workers` would be safer with `them` selecting the safety-rep instead of the employer as boo-of-melb `implies` .. what corporate wouldn`t want to `sack`/dismiss an inconvenient effective-safety-rep .. #numbest.of.nuts .. #run.teabag.run .. #time.to.talk.about.avatar.color.or.spleling

  50. July 23, 2015 5:44 pm

    tr”””My only hope is that Labor remove the secrecy and, once we see the misery”””#agree

    #and that IS the point team-cheerer, both l know it, and you know it,

    #blib had every opportunity on reportland, but all viewers got was weaseling and blather,

    #what blib NEEDED to say was, we are not going to change turn-backs simply because the population/voters won`t stand for it, and keeps alp unelectable, HOWEVER, alp will remove ALL secrecy around the DETAINMENT situation, stop the secrecy, allow teabag-media FULL access so that the voters can be FULLY informed, alp won`t be screwing over doctors, nurses, navy, gulag staff with `secrecy` threats.

    #that is `brand-differentiation`, and blib failed unfortunately

    #team-blib can`t win weaseling and blathering, team-blib need to give the public a hefty helping of honesty and straight-talk, or they`re stuffed

  51. TB Queensland permalink
    July 23, 2015 6:03 pm

    Royal Commission on Operation Sovereign Border?

  52. July 23, 2015 6:15 pm

    tr””When will ANY political correspondents ask yabot `Given your direct hand in the knifing of [insert lib leader here]””

    #knifing a gough-like, highly-popular, First-term kevin07, then immediately after kevin07, First-term jooLiar, have the teabags ever `actually` done this.?

    bagz””voters/viewers cannot be guaranteed the `team` won`t end-up knifing pm-blib if it suits them””’

    tr””It has always been thus.””’

    #team-cheerer, you vastly under-estimate the devastation this has done to the `team-brand`, trying to compare opposition leader changing to knifing-First-term-PM is an act of willful blindness and really only demonstrates why those voters that have turned away from the team, and those non-aligned voters should stay `away` and stay `non-aligned.

  53. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 23, 2015 6:16 pm

    HOWEVER, alp will remove ALL secrecy around the DETAINMENT situation, stop the secrecy, allow teabag-media FULL access so that the voters can be FULLY informed

    They didn’t do that last time. Triggs was banned from going to Manus Island under Labor. Also Rudd said he would turn back the boats before the 2007 election but he never did.

    And anyway if the Coalition stays in govt the detention centers will be empty in a few years. But if Labor gets back in the boats will start coming again.

  54. July 23, 2015 6:25 pm

    “The ALP cannot “out Green” the Greens. That’s why Albanese and Pliberalsex are worried in their inner City Seats over Gay Marriage, Boat People, and Motorway developments.”

    I tend to agree.

    It’s ugly, Real Politik at work.

    They’d get hammered at the next Federal election if they didn’t. Which doesn’t excuse it, but explains it well.

  55. July 23, 2015 6:30 pm

    “Of course, Labor should open it up, so people can see the reality, but Labor will cop the flak for it.

    As long as people are treated like mushrooms with immigrants, they just don’t care.”

    Yes.

    The Ugly Truth.

    Another Truth being, people will keep coming, and dying on the way…because the world is a tad fucked up.

    Having a Martial Information Blackout changes fuck all…apart from political accountability for ‘tough love’.

  56. July 23, 2015 6:30 pm

    hey dunny, l don`t know where plibs seat is, but l`m pretty sure albo`s is sydney-outer working-class seat (south?/west?)

  57. July 23, 2015 6:31 pm

    VERY interested to read YomM’s take on this.

    It could go either way.

    Only one of which would be idealistically, and historically, consistent.

  58. July 23, 2015 6:36 pm

    ” Will they become pirates also?”

    Surely you jest?!

    Pirates are people saying “Fuck You” to extortionist Big Media antiquated business models…and getting away with it.

    Australian Federal Governments are NEVER Pirates because ‘Operational Deniability’.

  59. July 23, 2015 6:42 pm

    “Royal Commission on Operation Sovereign Border?”

    MagFUCKINGnificent idea!

    Shine light into dark corners.

  60. July 23, 2015 6:47 pm

    ” But if Labor gets back in the boats will start coming again.”

    Not that I expected a train of logical thought from you…but, isn’t there a boat off the coast of WA This Fucking Week? Just because the new gestapo, flags’n’all Immigration Minister won’t divulge, doesn’t mean it ain’t so.

    Bolt lickspittle. Polemic koolaid drinker.

    Wilfully ignorant political adherent.

  61. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 23, 2015 6:55 pm

    Not that I expected a train of logical thought from you…but, isn’t there a boat off the coast of WA This Fucking Week?

    I meant in large numbers. But the boats have basically stopped coming and Labor said it could not be done. Push factors Labor proclaimed was the reason boats could not be stopped.

    And if Labor gets back in they will start to come in large numbers again.

  62. July 23, 2015 7:05 pm

    l agree blubbers, the team can`t `out-green` (or anything else) the greenz, take a look at the calm, quiet leadership changes of the greenz, compared to the self-imploding disasters the team leadership-knifings/changes were, and still haunts the team today. The mis-understand team followers have is the greenz are peeling away team voters, what is `really` happening is the team is `shedding` voters that then go to the greenz.

  63. July 23, 2015 7:21 pm

    “”Shine light into dark corners.””

    It won’t happen. Now that both major parties have thrown their weight behind Operation Sovereign Murders.

  64. July 23, 2015 7:33 pm

    reb””It won`t happen. Now that both major””#teams usually engage in creating the `dark-corners` on most topics.

  65. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 7:34 pm

    “Link?”

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/tony-abbott-doesnt-deny-claims-officials-paid-people-smugglers-to-turn-back-asylum-seeker-boat/story-fni0fiyv-1227394262294

    Tom R, do you think workers should be entitled to choose/ elect their own safety reps?

    I was under the impression they did.

    They’d get hammered at the next Federal election if they didn’t. Which doesn’t excuse it, but explains it well.

    This cannot be repeated enough imo

    Now that both major parties have thrown their weight behind Operation Sovereign Murders.

    Yes, considering the laws Labor have helped get though, I cannot see them opening up about what goes on.

    At least the number of immigrants is being increased. Small mercies.

  66. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 23, 2015 8:15 pm

    It won’t happen. Now that both major parties have thrown their weight behind Operation Sovereign Murders.

    No, Operation Stop the Drownings. And also Operation taking Refugees FROM UNHCR Camps

  67. July 23, 2015 8:23 pm

    for #bagz.. #ABC730

    Well that was a pathetic interview. Leigh Sales went for the jugular with Bill Shorten during a live interview constantly interrupting his answers with feeble attempts to secure a ratings friendly “gotcha moment” but compare Ms Sales handling of Abbott’s “interview” this evening. How come Abbott was afforded the privilege of a pre-recorded interview with stage props (the “Australian flag in the background was a nice touch for both Leigh and Abbott) while Bill wasn’t? Obviously Abbott is afforded more lenient interviewing conditions than Shorten is. How on earth can this possibly be construed as balanced?

  68. July 23, 2015 8:49 pm
  69. TB Queensland permalink
    July 23, 2015 9:00 pm

    Well ABC is now showing whose side its on, sreb … you sound disappointed/surprised …

    The Mad Abbott is a role model – for bullies …

  70. Tom R permalink
    July 23, 2015 9:07 pm

    How on earth can this possibly be construed as balanced?

    Perhaps she balanced each persons ability to think on their feet and adjusted to match?

  71. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 23, 2015 9:10 pm

    TomR

    Your link says this “PRIME Minister Tony Abbott has not denied claims Australian officials paid people smugglers to turn back a boat filled with asylum seekers.

    If people smugglers were paid to turn back the boat they would have to be on the boat surely which i find highly unlikely. People smugglers would be onshore waving goodbye to the boat. It is unlikely once in the boat the asylum seekers would obey orders to come back.

  72. July 23, 2015 9:35 pm

    reb””’Well that was a pathetic interview. Leigh Sales””’

    #yep, fully agree, pathetic.

    #a total waste of viewers time watching reportland tonight, with mr-rabbit telling the same old teabag-lines to sales, who didn`t measure-up in the `bullshit-challenging` department. Tho it probably didn`t help sales performance having credlin standing off-camera with a baseball bat.

  73. July 23, 2015 9:46 pm

    reb””flag in the background was a nice touch””

    #this is probably a non-issue

    #whatever is in anybody elses office as `props`/decor is probably `beyond` my abc production/s control, including blibs or mr-rabbits

    #Last night blib was in front of a `green-screen` with `city-scape` back-drop on it from memory, this is either generic for `all` guests from that particular studio, OR possibly, the guest can choose his back-drop he wants, national tablecloth, eureka tablecloth, team-logo etc

    #l don`t give much weight to that argument

  74. July 23, 2015 10:02 pm

    reb””Abbott was afforded the privilege of a pre-recorded interview””

    VERSES””went for the jugular with Bill Shorten during a live interview””

    #l basically disagree with the `live-V-recorded` comparison, yes the viewers don`t know what was left in the cutting-room from the recorded, but the viewers did get `authentic` from the `live`.

    #lt also makes the assumption that mr-rabbits `gaffs` were omitted, l would suggest anything that was `omitted` would have been `dull` repetitions of the same lines re-asked and re-slogan answered.

    #While l think blibs answers were crap, the interview was more `lively`, while mr-rabbits(too-frightened-to-go-to-studio) was extremely `dull` and didn`t inform viewers of anything, just slogans regurgitated, tho it did provide my abc to chalk-up another point in the (fake)balance-dept.

  75. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 23, 2015 11:47 pm

    How come Abbott was afforded the privilege of a pre-recorded interview with stage props (the “Australian flag in the background was a nice touch for both Leigh and Abbott) while Bill wasn’t?

    He can’t do live interviews with proper reporters, makes him stammer, stutter, cough, lick his lips and repeat hisself three times. He needs to know that peta is close by to intervene if any problems arise. He needs the control.

  76. July 24, 2015 12:17 am

    reb””How on earth can this possibly be construed as balanced?””

    #ln one-on-one interviews `air-time`=`balance`, blib got 6-minutes yesterday, mr-rabbit got 6-minutes today. Yes, in most cases l would also suggest `how-hard` the reporter goes on `guest` is also part of it, in most, normal circumstances, which currently doesn`t exist with my abc under certain attacks and boycotts at the moment.

    reb””Obviously Abbott is afforded more lenient interviewing conditions than Shorten is.””

    #On the surface, l agree, sales was `soft` on mr-rabbit, tho mr-rabbit still managed to look highly annoyed. What we don`t know is, was sales instructed to be `soft` by frightened my abc management.? Or, has my abc decided on just giving mr-rabbit `his-share` of air-time, no matter how boring.?

    #ln different ways, both mr-rabbit and blib basically `squandered` their air-time, and neither won-over new voters during their slots.

  77. July 24, 2015 12:51 am

    hypothetical”””privilege of a pre-recorded interview”””

    #fact. mr-rabbit spent a chunk of this week trying to `handle` the state/s premiers and 15%-gst

    #maybe mr-rabbit wanted to spend his time on reportland bragging on how well he has handled premiers and gst-increase

    #maybe sales went armed with lots of questions mr-rabbit is known to be frightened of answering and got lots of footage on these topics

    #maybe mr-rabbits gst-premier-bragging is in the cutting-room

    #maybe a boring as bat-shit, but `honest`, `fair`, and `balanced`, report was constructed from the questions that frighten mr-rabbit, which could explain why he looked quite annoyed

    #maybe mr-rabbit realized his report was going to be `sand-bagged` into a boring, `nothing` report

    #maybe my abc is fighting back in its own way #wink.wink

  78. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 24, 2015 12:55 am

  79. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 24, 2015 12:57 am

  80. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 24, 2015 1:01 am

  81. July 24, 2015 8:45 am

    “”What we don`t know is, was sales instructed to be `soft` by frightened my abc management.?””

    It’s not unusual for guests appearing on TV for an interview to request certain “conditions” before they agree to appear. Usually it may be about certain questions being off limits, or being privy to the questions that will be asked so that answers can be prepared in advance.

    What is clear in this situation tho, is that Leigh went a lot harder on Bill than she did Tony. Whether this is a result of being fearful of the consequences we’ll never know, but the contrast was stark.

    Additionally Abbott was afforded the luxury of a pre-recorded interview. Whether the edited version had to be run past his office before broadcast as a condition of approval remains to be seen but I would consider it likely. Why else would he do it this way.

    The result is that Abbott was afforded more lenient conditions for his interview than Shorten was which in my mind is a clear case of bias (whether the ABC did it intentionally or not).

    Maybe next time, Abbott could just hand over one of his notorious monologue youtube clips to the ABC for broadcast and we can dispense with the pretence altogether…

  82. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 24, 2015 9:24 am

    I remember that after his last ‘gaffe’ and his near death experience, there was a change. Abbott stopped doing anything remotely impromptu, he employed a cameraman from one of the TV channels for staged interviews and wouldn’t come out of his office to face live questions.

    His pressers are now staged with lots of flags and no questions taken and his walk throughs are tightly controlled and any questions he doesn’t like are just ignored while he answers one that wasn’t asked.

    I assume the [nowadays] invisible credlin is hovering close by to controll the whole process.

    Pretty gutless and completely contemptuous politics IMO.

  83. Splatterbottom permalink
    July 24, 2015 9:28 am

    “Well ABC is now showing whose side its on”

    Perhaps those who now claim the ABC is unbalanced will join me in calls for its sale.

  84. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 24, 2015 9:33 am

    #On the surface, l agree, sales was `soft` on mr-rabbit, tho mr-rabbit still managed to look highly annoyed.

    He always looks grim when he gets serious reporters, the furrowed brow and death stare, as if he’s concentrating really really hard, also a lot of hostility to serious reporters who won’t be fobbed off or intimidated by him.

  85. Tom R permalink
    July 24, 2015 10:27 am

    Your link says this

    So, I’m assuming you have amnesia over the whole affair then. It was unequivocal (but, of course, murdor equivocates)

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/australian-officials-paid-people-smugglers-to-turn-back-to-indonesia-says-police-chief-20150609-ghk63g.html

    Perhaps those who now claim the ABC is unbalanced will join me in calls for its sale.

    Perhaps those who now claim the ABC is unbalanced will join me in calls for it to get back to its charter, and abandon this bullshit “balance”.

  86. Tom R permalink
    July 24, 2015 10:33 am

    the team can`t `out-green` (or anything else) the greenz

    The greenz are an irrelevance. Any time they have an opportunity to advance our country in a more progressive direction, they fuck it up. Is why I vote for the less progressive but more effective “progressive” party.

  87. Tom R permalink
    July 24, 2015 10:46 am

    Now that both major””#teams usually engage in creating the `dark-corners` on most topics.

    You really pull out the dumb don’t ya 😉

  88. TB Queensland permalink
    July 24, 2015 10:58 am

    “Well ABC is now showing whose side its on”

    Perhaps those who now claim the ABC is unbalanced will join me in calls for its sale.

    You never did get sarc, Wally … Wot TR said above …

    Oh, you’ll be pleased to know that we’ve just been informed that we will now be charged 6c per day “solar metering service charge” … fuck knows what they “service” … but a sneaky way to reduce the the contract we have with the government to pay for the power we generate …

    I just hope the breakthrough in energy cells/storage comes soon … then watch the pricks squirm …

    And shares in coal and power stations plummet!

  89. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 24, 2015 10:58 am

    So, I’m assuming you have amnesia over the whole affair then. It was unequivocal (but, of course, murdor equivocates)

    The Australian govt usually would not confirm or deny something like that. But your link says that Dutton said no to the payments being made. And if money was paid to the crew is this the same as paying money to people smugglers? I suspect the people who organise this sort of stuff ie people smugglers, would never hop into a boat.

  90. TB Queensland permalink
    July 24, 2015 11:01 am

    Correction 7.46 cents per day with GST …

  91. Tom R permalink
    July 24, 2015 11:24 am

    And if money was paid to the crew is this the same as paying money to people smugglers?

    The crew are the people smugglers dopey.

  92. TB Queensland permalink
    July 24, 2015 11:55 am

    Check my numbers …

    Per day = 7.46 cents

    Per year = $27.22

    Solar powered homes in SE QLD … 290,000 (can’t find numbers north)

    Total tax … $7,893,800.00

    A “solar metering service charge”? WTF!

  93. armchair opionator permalink
    July 24, 2015 12:16 pm

    If we get the GST increase that conservatives are agitating for (socialised taxes affecting the poor the worst, rather than real reform)

    I will declare this to be Abbott’s ‘great big new tax on everything’. He’s using baird as his trojan horse, hiding from criticism re new bigger taxes. Gutless always is Abbott. A gst should be taken to the people at election.

  94. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 24, 2015 12:25 pm

    The crew are the people smugglers dopey.

    I would call a people smugglers the people organise the whole thing. The crew would be some dumb Indonesian fisherman.

    Anyway Dutton denied the claim.

  95. Walrus permalink
    July 24, 2015 12:30 pm

    “You never did get sarc, Wally …”

    And you never got comprehension.

    Pay attention and actually play closer attention to who said

    “Perhaps those who now claim the ABC is unbalanced will join me in calls for its sale.”

    (Meanwhile another pod of whales off the coast)

  96. Walrus permalink
    July 24, 2015 12:31 pm

    “And shares in coal and power stations plummet!”

    ROFLMAO

  97. Tom R permalink
    July 24, 2015 1:07 pm

    Pay attention and actually play closer attention to who said

    Yes, you should wally 😉

    Anyway Dutton denied the claim.

    Well, that seals it then. 😯

  98. Tom R permalink
    July 24, 2015 1:07 pm

    tehoz doing what it does best. bullshitting

  99. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 24, 2015 2:07 pm

    Asylum seeker policy has been horribly politicised for about the past decade. Gillard as shadow immigration used boat arrivals to score political points. Do did Rudd.

    Abbott took the debate to another level.

    The rednecks have won

    These days it is just about impossible to advocate some compassion without being told you support deaths st sea.

    The political scene is a crock of s**t and this debate is the best example.

  100. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 24, 2015 2:10 pm

    Posted from a hardship tropical conference location

  101. Tom R permalink
    July 24, 2015 2:27 pm

    The rednecks have won

    I AGREE!

    My only hope is Labor will, if they win, find some way to turn the tide back to a bit more compassion, like they tried, and failed, last time.

    And I would hope the Greens, should they ever get that kind of power again, use their heads next time, and not just their hearts. It all looks nice on paper, but not so nice in the outcome.

    And the msm need to take their (Lions) share of the blame.

    Ramping up the outrage over the boat arrivals, and then sudden and complete silence over operation “who knows what the fuck we are doing out there”.

  102. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 24, 2015 2:47 pm

    I don’t think it is wise to expect anything decent from the ALP.

    And that’s the main reason so many are disaffected. People expect uncompromising harsh policies from the Liberals

    They should be able to expect something more likecpcompassion from the ALP.

  103. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 24, 2015 2:48 pm

    “like compassion”

  104. Tom R permalink
    July 24, 2015 2:50 pm

    I don’t think it is wise to expect anything decent from the ALP.

    You mean like Gonski, NDIS or plain packet cigarettes?

  105. July 24, 2015 2:51 pm

    reb”””pre-recorded interview. Whether the edited version had to be run past his office before broadcast as a condition”””’

    #Nah reb, that`s for `movie-deals`, not news/ca as far as l know. Have you got an `actual` example somewhere that my abc news/ca has done this previously for an aussie pollie.?

    #hint, once editorial control is handed over to the pollie it is no longer news, it`s political advertising, and MUST be disclosed to the viewer/s.

  106. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 24, 2015 2:57 pm

    There are plenty of compassionate policies that the ALP could have adopted without significant cost.

    They’ve avoided them.

    There are others that they promised without figuring out how to pay for them.

  107. Tom R permalink
    July 24, 2015 2:59 pm

    There are plenty of compassionate policies that the ALP could have adopted without significant cost.

    Oh, so now it’s “not enough” compassionate policies. gotcha 😉

  108. July 24, 2015 3:43 pm

    TB””we will now be charged 6c per day `solar metering service charge` .. fuck knows what they `service”””

    #servicing nothing .. just `inventing` fees to take money off self-solar folk .. l did drop info on this a while back .. when l get the chance .. its `off-grid` for our place .. not interested in being jerked about by big-corp and their bullshit .. l hope you`re not `contracted` to be stuck with the fcukers for the long-term teebz

  109. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 24, 2015 3:47 pm

    These days it is just about impossible to advocate some compassion without being told you support deaths st sea.

    What is your solution?

    Based on the monthly numbers coming by boat just before Rudd lost the election we would be getting 50,000 boat people/year.

    That could easily double to 100,000/year.

    Should we take all who want to come or have a quota system?

  110. TB Queensland permalink
    July 24, 2015 4:32 pm

    Pay attention and actually play closer attention to who said

    Apologies, Wally … multi tasking does not work! (got a gig tonight)

    It did sound like you tho’ 🙂

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    l hope you`re not `contracted` to be stuck with the fcukers for the long-term teebz

    Nope, short term contract but this change actually breaks that contract …

  111. July 24, 2015 4:51 pm

    When comparing the blib and mr-rabbit reportland interviews, l think viewers should keep in mind,

    1.mr-rabbit IS disciplined, he is prepared, he will only continually repeat the zombie-lines as he has done since his opposition days to `any` question he is asked.

    EG=Question What are you doing about dodgey helicopter claim/rorts in your team. Answer,death-cult, death-cult, death-cult.

    +

    2.blib just can`t seem to help himself and waffles and blathers on in unneeded long-winded fashion, so blib tends to look `unprepared` for short interview timeslots like reportland. What blib `should` be doing is pushing the qandaland production mob for a `leader-only` appearance, where blib can turn his long-winded blathering to a strength and blather on for a whole hour, something which frightens mr-rabbit.

    l would suspect blib will be doing well at this weeks `team-conference` where he can blather-on to his hearts content.

    +

    3.viewers are always better served by `live` one-on-one interviews, less-so with the recorded/edited interviews.

  112. Walrus permalink
    July 24, 2015 5:27 pm

    “It did sound like you tho”

    Yes you did

    Congratulations !

  113. Walrus permalink
    July 24, 2015 5:31 pm

    “3.viewers are always better served by `live` one-on-one interviews, less-so with the recorded/edited interviews.”

  114. Walrus permalink
    July 24, 2015 5:39 pm

    “… multi tasking does not work! (got a gig tonight)…”

    WE ARE NOW CROSSING LIVE TO TB IN CONCERT…………..

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=old+man+pianno+accordion&FORM=HDRSC3#view=detail&mid=1655728ADF9A521F7D2C1655728ADF9A521F7D2C

  115. Walrus permalink
    July 24, 2015 5:40 pm

  116. July 24, 2015 6:02 pm

    sorry blubbers, l can`t see video on my computer, got transcripts.?

  117. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 24, 2015 8:25 pm

    My only hope is Labor will, if they win, find some way to turn the tide back to a bit more compassion, like they tried, and failed, last time.

    And that is Labor for you. They try and fail every time.

  118. July 24, 2015 9:52 pm

    youtube””’Bob Hawke blows up at Richard Carleton’s questioning

    March 5th, 1983. An intense interview between the new head of the Labour party Bob Hawke and Richard Carelton. Best known as the “Blood that’s on your hands” Interview. The deep, searching questions by Richard Carelton towards Bob Hawke over the way Hawke assumed the””#leadership???

    +

    youtube””’John Hewson – The GST Interview”””

    +

    #ha-ha yes blubbers, excellent examples of the viewers being `well-served` by `live` interviews, hosts and guests, not so much.

    #l love this blurb on the hewson clip

    youtube”’The days when the 6.30 shows actually meant something. Not the crap that is on now.””’#guffaw

  119. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 24, 2015 10:29 pm

    First it was the chinese who threatened us in the gold rush days, then it became the greeks and italians, the chinese again, the vietnamese boat people and the black africans, now it’s the muslims. There’s been a long history of racism, bigotry and intolerance in this country, starting and finishing with our own first peoples, aboriginal australians will cop it too whenever they dare to speak their truth to white australia.

    Reclaim Australia: the fear remains the same, but the targets keep changing
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-23/sparrow-reclaim-australia-the-targets-keep-changing/6642078

    …But Safran notes that about half the crowd come from the religious groups led by Daniel Nalliah: Catch The Fire Ministry and the associated political body, Rise Up Australia. Of these, he says, “Maybe a quarter are non-white – Asians, Indians and Africans.”

    Such people, Safran says, are motivated by religion more than politics: “Essentially, these non-white people are here because the scriptures tell them Jesus Christ is the last prophet.”

    That may well be true. But the centrality of Catch The Fire to the protests makes the Reclaim Australia project even more contradictory…

    …”I am against Islam in Australia,” she said. “I’m not targeting Muslims, I’m targeting the ideology of what Islam stands for. We do not want or need Sharia law in Australia.”

    Let’s leave aside the question of how you can be “against Islam” without “targeting Muslims” (rather like being against Judaism without targeting Jews, one would have thought)…

  120. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 24, 2015 10:49 pm

  121. July 24, 2015 11:34 pm

    so, the un-funny jew seeks out a small cluster of racists and rednecks to hang-out with in his spare time, writes a post about his quaint adventure and manages to get it posted at limited-news, the home racists and rednecks, the stupidity doesn`t stop there tho, the silly clucks at my abc seem to think the un-funny jews post is worth referencing, along with the couple of hundred bigots in the united parrots front, as if finding a couple of hundred bigots is news, really, haven`t they heard of the liberal party and ipa

    #reclaiming.my.sanity

  122. armchair opionator permalink
    July 25, 2015 11:27 am

  123. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 25, 2015 11:43 am

    There’s been a long history of racism,

    Did you read your link? One quarter of Catch the Fire, RUA people are non-white

    Catch The Fire Ministry and the associated political body, Rise Up Australia. Of these, he says, “Maybe a quarter are non-white – Asians, Indians and Africans.

  124. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 25, 2015 12:09 pm

    I’m interested in how being opposed to a religion is “racist”

    TB routinely criticises catholicism, I don’t think his criticism is racist.

    Muslims aren’t a race. It’s a religion and therefore criticism is entirely reasonable.

  125. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 25, 2015 12:47 pm

    I’m interested in how being opposed to a religion is “racist”

    Eggactly. Islam is a belief system which lots of people disagree with. Like having 40 year old men marrying 12 year old girls.

    I also disagree with the Nazi’s but they were white.

    Why do lefties say being anti islam is racist? I know the answer. They are trying to confuse people.

  126. TB Queensland permalink
    July 25, 2015 2:18 pm

    TB routinely criticises Catholicism

    I actually tend to criticise ALL organised religions … catliks tend to take the high moral ground where behaviours tend to negate that concept … and in my “life experience” have done my family more wrong than any Muslims …

    ‘Tis the hypocrisy that I object to … we suffer now what was perpetrated on the Middle East a millennium ago … not all cultures “mature” at the same level or speed …

    My criticism is of what about the values of the New Testament and how modern day catilks behave in ways that are quite contrary to their “book” … particularly the bit that begins Thou Shalt Not ….

  127. TB Queensland permalink
    July 25, 2015 2:20 pm

    … have done my family more wrong than any Muslims …

    No I don’t condone ISIL … and yes, I live next door to a Muslim family …

  128. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 25, 2015 2:28 pm

    That’s fine TB and I tend not to worry about your mainly anti catholic comments.

    But the point is that criticism of religion isn’t racism.

    Jews aren’t a race, nor are christians. Muslims aren’t either.

  129. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 25, 2015 4:33 pm

    …Did you read your link? One quarter of Catch the Fire, RUA people are non-white…

    Did you read the link?

    The point of the article is that the non-white, catch the fire types would themselves have been seen as undesirable immigrants and victims of racism years ago in australia.

    Muslims aren’t a race. It’s a religion and therefore criticism is entirely reasonable.

    How many followers of islam are non-muslim?

    You can also be non-white and a racist.

    from the link

    …Let’s leave aside the question of how you can be “against Islam” without “targeting Muslims” (rather like being against Judaism without targeting Jews, one would have thought). What’s fascinating is that, back when Pauline Hanson was a serious political force, she showed no interest in Islam at all. In her 1996 maiden speech – probably her most famous political intervention – she said nothing about sharia law or halal foods or any of her current preoccupations…

  130. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 25, 2015 5:56 pm

    a good read

    Abbott’s military pretensions amid echoes of Howard’s prattlers
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2015/07/25/abbotts-military-pretensions-amid-echoes-howards-prattlers/14377464002158

    …John Howard draped his long-running prime ministership in khaki and cricket whites, and Abbott, struggling to find his feet in the top job, has latched on to and amplified the military theme with a vengeance…

  131. TB Queensland permalink
    July 25, 2015 6:38 pm

    But the point is that criticism of religion isn’t racism.

    Of course I get that … catholicism particularlyhas infected a vast part of globe … just as Islamism invades the remainder …

    Woe betide agnostics and, particularly, atheists …

    How many followers of islam are non-muslim?

    Isn’t a follower of the religion Islam a Muslim, no matter your race or nationality ?

    An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim (sometimes spelled “Moslem”)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

    And that was ToM’s point … I think?

  132. July 25, 2015 7:08 pm

    “Woe betide agnostics and, particularly, atheists … ”

    Never pity me.

    I pity the weak minded, anti-reality fantasy adherents & their forlorn clinging to archaic dogma.

    I feel for those of a rationalist bent, in countries where atheism is truly anathema & punishable by the ignorant masses & their fable-pumping exploiters.

  133. July 25, 2015 7:10 pm

    Fuck religious fundamentalism.

    I don’t care which flavour it is.

  134. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 25, 2015 7:19 pm

    Racist?

    Spanish town changes its name from “Kill Jews”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/22/spanish-village-drops-kill-jews-name

  135. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 25, 2015 7:35 pm

    Tom of Melbourne

    You did not reply to my post.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/07/22/lawyers-the-only-winners-in-joe-hockeys-defamation-case/#comment-110844

    What is your solution/policy?

  136. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 25, 2015 7:39 pm

    I’ve posted plenty of suggestions and policy options in the past Neil.

    F**ked if I can be bothered repeating them at the moment.

  137. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 25, 2015 8:27 pm

    OK But i wonder what Australia would say if we were getting 100,000 boat people/year?

    This is an issue at the Labor Party conference this weekend. I think it is an issue with no solution. Just a number of different unpleasant options.

  138. July 25, 2015 8:34 pm

    Hello dung heaps.

  139. TB Queensland permalink
    July 25, 2015 9:05 pm

    Ah! Kenny Everett …

  140. July 25, 2015 9:44 pm

    ROFL #this is really well said,

    saturdaypaper”””As for Bronwyn Bishop, she`s more a brassy Abbott government bonnet ornament than parliamentary speaker, the quintessence of an administration obsessed with power and its spoils over sound policy and good governance. That`s not sexism but fact. With 393 of the 400 MPs ejected from parliament under Bishop`s speakership being Labor members, her partisan pollution of the precious independence of the office is a matter of public record. She`s the natural complement to a prime minister who every day looks more and more like a hollowed out Howard on steroids. Behind the scenes even Howard is depressed by it.”””’via-ao

  141. July 25, 2015 10:25 pm

    saturdaypaper.1”””The Australian is right about one thing.(#for-once) Swan is a Plibersek fan. So are most of the rest of caucus, where she would win a ballot hands down if Bill Shorten fell under a bus tomorrow, unless, that is, another Left candidate ran and split the vote, delivering victory to whoever stands for the Right. Sadly, the moment has passed for Anthony Albanese, who won the popular rank-and-file vote last time around and would now be leader had his own faction united behind him.”””

    sp.2”””Instead, several fellow faction members put settling old anti-Albo scores ahead of beating the Right, and many would say ahead of backing the best candidate.”””

    sp.3”””Albanese would have made a wonderful, fighting-on-the-front-foot leader in this term of opposition. But it was not to be. Labor is now looking to the future, to those not marked by and likely to carry on the old battles of the bleak past. For the Right`s part, the same old battle scars will disfigure the hopes of those such as shadow treasurer Chris Bowen, who were up to their armpits in the Rudd–Gillard wars.”””””’

    #and will the team-conference this week give to the voting public, an energetic, refreshed, blib with a vision and plan that both the team and public will follow, a blib securely supported by his team and caucus.

    #or will the public be stuck with the same blib and team that the public just can`t be sure of

  142. July 25, 2015 10:41 pm

    blah #when l checked my abc24 earlier today, l saw this,

    saturdaypaper”””the outline of a future Labor prime minister may finally emerge into view. His decision to press for `turn back the boats` being one plank in Labor`s overall refugee and border security policy ensures that it, not marriage equality, will be the biggest stoush of the weekend.”””’

    #nope, not VE, not gay-marriage, not welfare improvement/s, nope, not even improving for lowest-earning `workers` or neglected-ohs, nope, none of that from blib and the so-called `workers-team`,

    #nope, none of that, the `big` thing blib did at the team-conference was maintaining the fear of things that float, and the cash-bonfire for gulags, blib chose to be teabag-lite #again #sigh

  143. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 25, 2015 11:20 pm

    Isn’t a follower of the religion Islam a Muslim, no matter your race or nationality ?…

    Yes, of course TB.

    The people who are taking to the streets and organising against muslims are trying to justify their actions by pretending there is a difference between followers of islam [muslims] and islam as a religion and claim they’re not racists. Those people also happen to be proud nazi sympathisers, fascists, jew haters and white supremacists. And you say it’s the muslims who are extremists!

    The truth is, it’s the same as the asylum seeker issue.
    The people who are against AS and against muslims use every excuse that doesn’t make them sound as callous, compassionless and racist as they really are. The towing the boats back for people to die elsewhere becomes ‘concern for deaths at sea’ and hatin’ on muslims has become ‘hate the religion, not the people’ but it is just a fake argument – the haters don’t give a shit about any of them, they just want them out of australia and out of their sight. Do you think making such a clarification gives any comfort to the people being treated like human garbage? “it’s not you we hate, it’s your religion, but we are a country that values religious freedom” huh?

    Whatever gets them through the night I guess.

  144. Aspirational Times permalink
    July 26, 2015 2:50 am
  145. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 26, 2015 10:49 am

    I think this will happen. We need to start running surplus budgets now.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/parliamentary-gridlock-could-cost-australia-its-aaa-credit-rating-standard-and-poors-20150724-gijxqb.html

    Australia’s AAA credit rating is at risk from parliamentary gridlock, one of the world’s biggest credit ratings agencies has warned.

    Standard and Poor’s reaffirmed its AAA rating for Australia on Friday but said it could lower the rating if Australia’s budgetary performance did not improve as it currently expects.

  146. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 26, 2015 12:14 pm

    Yep. At this rate government debt will prevent our children from having any buffer from a severe downturn.

    Political parties need to promote spending reductions rather than new spending initiatives, and move the GST to 12+% and apply it to everything without exception.

    Removing exceptions will reduce admin and avoidance and will therefore be far more efficient.

    …and fine compensate pensioners and low income earners. Everyone else can help carry to load.

  147. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 26, 2015 12:50 pm

    Suddenly the people who have been singing from the libs songbook for years about a spending problem are now skidding to an abrupt halt and an about turn with flourish and spruiking a revenue problem? Some of us have been saying that for years. But it has to be noted that the change is also in line with libs desperation to fix their disastrous and embarrassing budget situation which has seen the economy and people’s spending do a deep dive.
    Also funny how the only way the libs can find to reform taxation is through a regressive tax which hits the poor and working poor the hardest whilst refusing to touch any of the perks and rorts of the wealthy.

    Just following the libs latest tune.

    …Yep. At this rate government debt will prevent our children from having any buffer from a severe downturn…

    Maybe that’s all the kids of the wealthy are worried about, the rest will be concerned with surviving a privatised education and paying back their shitload of debt, getting any job at all with no manufacturing industry, privatised skills training, competing with poorly skilled foreign labour at rock bottom wages and the cost of combating climate change inherited from their negligent parents.

    Yes, what have the visionary libs been doing about preparing for the decades to come other than burying their heads in the sand and blocking any progress for innovative new industry and the renewables sector? *sarc*

  148. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 26, 2015 1:21 pm

    Oh, and don’t forget, the libs still want to give tax cuts to the wealthy!

  149. Econometricks permalink
    July 26, 2015 2:09 pm

    As the next election approaches – whether it is called early or not – Mr Abbott will claim that he wants Australia to remain a fair and equitable place, but he has shown himself to be an unreliable narrator of his Government’s intentions. Only a fool – or an overly compliant media – would give someone with his track record the benefit of the doubt.

  150. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 26, 2015 2:38 pm

    Debt reduction isn’t a class war. It requires responsible and prudent policies.

    It’s about time hard lefties got the idea that they too have to carry some of the economic responsibility and get over the “don’t expect me to carry any of the weight” crap.

  151. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 26, 2015 3:10 pm

    …Debt reduction isn’t a class war. It requires responsible and prudent policies…

    It is a class war if it adversely impacts one sector of the income spectrum more than than another, if it’s a regressive rather than a progressive tax and if you don’t remove all the rorts at the wealthy end at the same time. If you refuse to reform the whole system and go for a quick & easy grab from people who can’t avoid it, then yes, it’s a class war, from the top down. It’s looking after your big business backers at the expense of everyone else. It should also go against the grain of everyone here who has railed against any new taxes, hated a carbon price, gonski and NBN funding because they said we couldn’t afford them. Whoever preaches the libs lie of ‘the lower tax party’ and supports this great big new tax would have to be a giant hypocrite.

    …Bishop is a serial offender when it comes to using our money to pay for the largesse of her unimpressive time in political office (how someone who presided over kerosene baths in nursing homes as a minister could go on to become Speaker is beyond me)…

    …Don’t think misuse (or overuse) of parliamentary entitlements is rats and mice stuff that evokes a headline but doesn’t affect the budget. More than $500 million is funnelled into political entitlements each and every year. Pause and think about that, while I go through what constitutes legitimate use of taxpayers’ dollars for such “work”…

  152. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 26, 2015 3:31 pm

    ASIC’s Houdini, Greg Medcraft, is in the firing line
    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/asics-houdini-greg-medcraft-is-in-the-firing-line-20150724-gijl47

    …Tensions between the Australian Securities and Investments Commission chairman and Liberal Senator Mathias Cormann surfaced late last year, after the regulator warned that Australia was a “bit of a paradise” for white-collar crime, comments that enraged the government and forced Mr Medcraft to backtrack from his position…

  153. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 26, 2015 3:37 pm

    and move the GST to 12+% and apply it to everything without exception.

    Agree to moving the GST to everything but keep it at 10%. Much easier to do the calculation in your head than 12%.

    Removing exemptions will save money. Any time you put an exemption into anything it makes it more expensive. I remember reading somewhere that there are cases in the high court deciding whether some food should have GST applied.

  154. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 26, 2015 3:46 pm

    Thanks econometrics, we are reminded again of all the broken promises.

  155. July 26, 2015 3:53 pm

    boo-of.melb””’move the GST to 12+% and apply it to everything without exception.”””

    #including exports.? #including biz-to-biz expenses.?

    #how about applying the current rate-gst to exports first, ie-coal/iron-ore, before penalizing worker/pensioner consumers.?

    boo-of.melb””’Removing exceptions will reduce admin and avoidance and will therefore be far more efficient.””’

    #2319 numb-nuts .. the exact same theory applies to corporate tax-loop holes

    #corporate deep-throaters such as ya`self always worry about the `health` of paper-entities over `flesh`n`blood`

  156. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 26, 2015 4:05 pm

    A sock puppet, a personal troll – all for my personal enjoyment!

    Around the blogs, does anyone else have their very own personal troll? Someone who goes to all that trouble? Who replies at my whim!!

  157. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 26, 2015 4:12 pm

    Reform of the system requires a complete rebalancing of expenditure as well as revenue. A party that commits to removing rorts in tax, welfare and public employment will get my support. But there won’t be that commitment from any party.

    Each is committed to their narrow sectional interests.

  158. July 26, 2015 4:21 pm

    More corporate deep-throating from you know who,

    boo-of.melb””’don`t expect me to carry any of the weight”””

    #translates to, don`t close tax-loop holes for rich/corporates, but impose higher-gst on the pensioner/un-under-employed

    boo-of,melb”’Debt reduction isn`t a class war.””’

    #2319 numb-nuts .. the debt/deficit DOUBLED by teabags went on, flying-f35-junk, reserve-bank, open-checkbook iraq/afghan-wars, privacy-web/invasion, all either benefiting rich and hiding govt-embarrassment, chasing smoke in political royal-commissions.

    #the `spending` was done to benefit the rich and their puppets, so yeah, in my eyes the debt does belong to the rich, and trying to make it the poors problem IS class warfare, no matter how corporate-trolls try to couch excuses for the rich with the word `reasonable` attached.

  159. July 26, 2015 4:38 pm

    Hint #personal fluffers with a solid history of being a corporate-puppet probably shouldn`t bandy the `puppet`-word around too much .. #2319:-)

  160. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 4:50 pm

    NEGATIVE GEARING THE ECONOMIC CANCER!

    “We are miles behind places like the US in financing young, growth businesses. We’re pathetic really compared with the US,” he told the ABC this week.

    He said about $250 million was available in venture capital for young entrepreneurs each year. This was about 20 times less than what taxpayers spent subsidising investment properties, which do not create jobs.

    “We currently give $4 billion a year to investors via the tax system to subsidise people buying negatively geared rental accommodation,” he told news.com.au.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/the-high-cost-of-australias-housing-obsession/story-fnu2pwk8-1227457463991

    Its not revenue we need to find its the balls to stop providing welfare to the rich and famous … and get on with developing the fkn country … we’ve had two talk fests this week … and all we’ll get productively from one or both of them is another fkn food, drinks, accommodation and entertainment bill!!!

    And we’re short of money … GMAFB!

    Politicians need to unglue their hands from their arses (they sit on ’em all fkn day) and glue their mouths shut until they can be constructive and productive …

  161. July 26, 2015 4:54 pm

    Where is `our` team-cheerer.?

    #All we are getting from teabag-media is that blib and team have gone down the teabag-lite route on boat-people and associated off-shore gulags and dumped gay-marriage from the agenda in a teabag-esque fashion.

    #Let`s hope `our` team-cheerer has something to report on blib and team regarding `brand-differentiation` when he returns from the team-conference.

  162. July 26, 2015 5:03 pm

    yep”””about 20 times less than what taxpayers spent subsidising investment properties, which do not create jobs””’

    #along with several other factors which are strangling to death a proper working job-marketplace, but the best the pollies and know-nothing zombies that regurgitate the zombie-talk can come up with is gst-increases.

  163. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 5:12 pm

    And you say it’s the muslims who are extremists!

    Whoa … where did I say that, KL?

    There are extremists in all religions and ideologies … I even recall Buddhist monks immolating themselves …

    I just don’t like extremism of any ilk … but I have seen the Australia I emigrated to in 1961 change dramatically and quite frankly for the worse, socially, on both sides – ie established Australians and on the opposite many immigrants who want to reshape Australia into their culture(s) …

    I can understand the frustration of both sides … I saw it in the north of England in the late 1950’s when a wave of Pakistanis seemed to suddenly appear in the villages and towns …

    Assimilation takes a couple of generations or more … multiculturalism seems to last forever …

    Perhaps radicalisation of young men and women begins with a perception that their “homeland” culture is better than Australia’s … rather than enjoying what they already have here … (I really don’t know).

    We do need to be more inclusive but government policy seems to make that more difficult.

    Quite frankly I think its a problem all over the world … I struggle with it because I’ve never been much of a joiner …

    … as an adult I’ve only ever joined one “club” and that’s for model railways … I even walked out of a meeting a few months ago because the wankers running the show couldn’t make a decision and stick to (every week was like watching the Liberal Party – flip – flop)… took ’em a month to sort their shit out and apologise … to everyone …

  164. July 26, 2015 5:17 pm

    14/88, at the bottom of the shonky placard held by the RWNJ KL posted, is ‘code’ for ‘Heil Hitler’ (seriously).

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=14%2F88

  165. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 5:22 pm

    Everything you (did not) want to know about #ReclaimAustralia in a single sign.

    Wonder if anyone noticed that the soldier is Japanese … that’s actually an old WWII poster revamped – how original … Still, nothing’s new, said my Egyptian friend …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Removing exceptions will reduce admin and avoidance and will therefore be far more efficient.

    That’s BS … we collected GST an as an RTO I designed developed and delivered both Nationally Recognised Training (GST free … and not NRT) … I can assure you its not fkn hard!

    Health, fresh food and education/training must remain GST free to encourage people to use the products and services.

    I mooted 12.5% GST and a 3% Medicare levy a couple of days ago, here.

  166. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 5:24 pm

    (GST free … and not NRT) … clarification

    NRT products and services are GST free

    Other training and material is not GST free

  167. July 26, 2015 5:29 pm

    “There are extremists in all religions and ideologies … I even recall Buddhist monks immolating themselves … ”

    I reckon Shinto may have been rather warlike too, from memory. Grains of Buddhism entwined.

  168. July 26, 2015 5:31 pm

    “Wonder if anyone noticed that the soldier is Japanese … that’s actually an old WWII poster revamped – how original ”

    I thought that that sign was an obvious pisstake, TB.

    Are you telling me some bonehead actually carried that recently?

  169. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 6:19 pm

    I thought that that sign was an obvious pisstake, TB.

    I’m assuming (I know) that its a “nick” and someone just wacked a Chinese flag behind it, toylet … it does say “memorabilia from today’s rally” …

    ======================================

    It’s about time hard lefties got the idea that they too have to carry some of the economic responsibility and get over the “don’t expect me to carry any of the weight” crap.

    What does that mini rant mean exactly? … Only people who vote for the right work and pay taxes?

  170. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 6:20 pm

    I thought that that sign was an obvious pisstake, TB.

    And these dicks aren’t that clever …

  171. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 6:26 pm

    Debt reduction isn’t a class war.

    It wasn’t until The Mad Abbott took over the town and bought off the sheriff with the aid of the coal, gas and banking barons …

    What you are whinging about is The Mad Abbott playing Robber Baron to become the Monarch … and make the rest of us serfs … you want to ponce about playing knights and dames … me? I’m happy with my Robin Hood persona …

  172. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 6:29 pm

    Much easier to do the calculation in your head than 12%.

    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? Duh!

    Why not make it 20% then ….. y’know divide by five …

  173. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 6:34 pm

    Winner of the Glasshouse Award for July is:

    personal fluffers with a solid history of being a corporate-puppet probably shouldn`t bandy the `puppet`-word around too much ..

  174. July 26, 2015 6:39 pm

    “And these dicks aren’t that clever …”

    As evidenced by scrawling 14/88 at the bottom of the semi legible rantsign.

  175. July 26, 2015 6:41 pm

    sbs news, closing moments of team-conference, both `left` and `right` of the team have promised/allowed a blib-govt to green-light gay-marriage, both blib and plib have announce this at their rostrum.

  176. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 7:09 pm

    One of the real differences between the left and the right of politics is the openness of the ALP Conference and the lack of any fkn thing at all from the tories … “we must be secret about everything” including SPENDING TAXPAYERS money on personal shite!

    Ihttp://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/labor-turns-focus-to-internal-issues/story-e6frfku9-1227457187056>

    ——————————————————-

    As evidenced by scrawling 14/88 etc … Indeed, mate, I didn’t acknowledge your earlier comments ’cause you probably knew I knew the origin of 14/88 …

  177. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 26, 2015 7:14 pm

    Remarkable.

    A personal troll/sock puppet with no sense, or literacy or value.

    But it’s better than not having a personal troll/sock puppet!!

  178. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 26, 2015 7:17 pm

    That mini rant, TB, means it is reasonable that the left start to participate in some difficult economic decisions that will impact on everyone, rather than defaulting to a class war excuse which results in no change.

  179. July 26, 2015 7:36 pm

    limited-news”””the regulator warned that Australia was a `bit of a paradise` for white-collar crime””””’via-ao

    #yep, nothing new there, asic and other so-called regulators have been know as paper/toothless-tigers for yonks now, and both teams have done nought about it

    limited-news””scandals that engulfed the Commonwealth Bank, Macquarie Private Wealth and the National Australia Bank, and which in some cases could have been detected earlier”””

    #or prevented all together, had politicians actually acted in national, state/s, peoples and govts interest, instead of being lacky`s for monster-biz

    #let`s not over-look limited-news hypocrisy in pushing big-biz propaganda and trampling garden variety citizens rights here either

  180. July 26, 2015 7:52 pm

    2319 numb-nuts””it is reasonable that the”” #teabags ””start to participate in some difficult”” #national ””decisions that will impact on everyone, rather than defaulting to a class war”, #budget-emergency, #boat-people, #death-cult or #science-denial ””excuse which results in no change” #for so many `people`(heard-of-them) and so many topics of national importance (heard-of-that)

  181. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 26, 2015 8:24 pm

    It wasn’t until The Mad Abbott took over the town and bought off the sheriff with the aid of the coal, gas and banking barons …

    It wasn’t until Labor trashed the budget that we had many problems. Your vote in 2007 TB destroyed our continuing prosperity. We will most probably lose our AAA rating in the next few years meaning more interest payments to the overseas lenders.

    Thank you ALP and everybody who voted for them.

  182. July 26, 2015 8:34 pm

    “It wasn’t until Labor trashed the budget that we had many problems. Your vote in 2007 TB destroyed our continuing prosperity. ”

    What utter shit.

    Proof only of the permeability of the inherently partisan mind.

  183. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 26, 2015 8:37 pm

    Nope it is the truth. Labor ALWAYS trashes the budget. Always have always will.

  184. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 8:54 pm

    … rather than defaulting to a class war excuse which results in no change.

    You need to expand on that bit of nonsense, ToM …

  185. TB Queensland permalink
    July 26, 2015 9:27 pm

    While yer thinking have a look again at the first Jhocky budget and consider

    Negative Gearing
    Family Trusts
    Multinational Tax
    Tax Avoidance
    Pollies Perques

    Just to start with …

  186. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 26, 2015 9:40 pm

    Negative Gearing
    Family Trusts
    Multinational Tax
    Tax Avoidance
    Pollies Perques

    And what did Labor do about this from 2007-2013?

    How about we stop the reckless spending? Labor will condemn the Coalition no matter where the spending cuts take place so i think we are doomed.

  187. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 26, 2015 10:06 pm

    I think it’s about time negative gearing was wound back.

    Multi national tax rorts aren’t capable of being .resolved by any single government. So good luck with that TB

  188. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 26, 2015 10:15 pm

    Tax Avoidance

    One good thing about the GST is that it does pick up some black market money. Even criminals need to buy a car etc. That is why a GST on everything is worth thinking about.

  189. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 26, 2015 10:15 pm

    How lucky am I !!

    Every time I post something about a senseless, illiterate personal troll/sock puppet, the go to the trouble of changing their email etc!

    What a dope.

    But I really value the attention.

  190. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 26, 2015 10:56 pm

    You know it makes sense, there is so much that can be done given the political will, why go for the easy and gutless cop out of a regressive GST increase?

    Premiers don’t have to be patsies on tax reform
    http://www.tai.org.au/content/premiers-dont-have-be-patsies-tax-reform

    …Research by The Australia Institute suggests a so-called financial transaction tax, also known as a Tobin tax or Robin Hood tax, could conservatively raise between $1 billion and $1.4 billion a year.

    This week, South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill spoke out about the need for a broader debate about tax than predictable calls from big business to increase the GST. Wetherill argued that, “There are other taxes that can be looked at before increasing the GST. They’re things like removing the generous superannuation concessions for high-income earners and also looking at introducing things like the financial institutions duty.”

    Weatherill also flagged support for a Buffett rule to prevent high-income earners who spend hundreds of thousands in tax advice paying zero in income tax. The list of good tax reform is easily lengthened. What about reforming negative gearing, and scrapping the diesel fuel rebate?…

    …The most obvious reason the hard right prefers to collect tax from GST rather than by simplifying the tax system with fewer loopholes is that it is regressive. Indeed, the GST is one tax that foreign owners of our biggest companies are sure to never pay…

  191. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 26, 2015 11:53 pm

    will, why go for the easy and gutless cop out of a regressive GST increase?

    Because the GST works. You cannot avoid the GST. However i would keep it at 10% but extend it to everything.

    Some of the other ideas may sound great but most probably will not work.

  192. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 27, 2015 8:23 am

    Our politicians never seem to get up to things like this

    http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/deputy-speaker-of-house-of-lords-resigns-after-being-filmed-snorting-cocaine-with-two-prostitutes/story-fnh81p7g-1227457965932

    A BRITISH deputy speaker in charge of upholding standards in the House of Lords has resigned after allegedly being filmed snorting cocaine with two sex workers.

    Video obtained by the Sun on Sunday allegedly shows Baron John Sewel, 69, naked and snorting white powder from a woman’s breasts at his rent-protected London apartment.

  193. July 27, 2015 10:00 am

    How amusement.

    The Libs are beginning to tear themselves apart over their stance against renewable energy…

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-27/backbench-pressures-government-about-energy-decision/6649648

  194. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 10:28 am

    One good thing about the GST is that it does pick up some black market money.

    You really need to go back to school, Kneel … or your still there …

    Never heard of a cash job? Still happens and is actually tax evasion … illegal … also called a black market …

  195. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 10:30 am

    How amusement.

    Indeed … “flat earthers” … chuckle

  196. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 10:40 am

    The Libs are beginning to tear themselves apart over their stance against renewable energy…

    So they should. Their position is becoming untenable as the real facts of subsidies is unearthed.

    All up the IMF projected Australia would subsidise coal, petroleum and gas consumption by $41 billion in 2015.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/renewable-energy-expense-attacked-as-australia-gifts-41-billion-to-fossil-fuels-20150725-gijsvh.html#ixzz3h31eyyLo

  197. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 10:41 am

    And Labor are continuing to put pressure on bronnie. What I find amazing, after the way the libs went after slipper, is how someone could come to the conclusion that going after bronnie was somehow sexist?

    Pat Conroy raises a very good point.

  198. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 27, 2015 10:49 am

    Never heard of a cash job? Still happens and is actually tax evasion … illegal … also called a black market …

    I said picks up SOME black market money. Some GST is unavoidable. A good reason to have 10% on everything.

  199. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 10:58 am

    Some GST is unavoidable.

    Which has in fact fueled the black market amongst tradies. Cash in hand if they can… 😉

  200. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 11:00 am

    They had a nice w/end of skiing while media attention was on the labor conference, I just hope their own coin was used.

  201. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 11:01 am

  202. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 11:08 am

    re th skiing article AO, I noted they also said he is “known for his remarkable workload” ? Doesn’t read documents, sleeps through important bills in parliament, Sleeps through meeting with Indigenous constituents who have traveled for days to see him. That’s a “remarkable workload” alright 😯

  203. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 11:31 am

    I said picks up SOME black market money. Some GST is unavoidable. A good reason to have 10% on everything.

    It would make no difference … either its GST free or not … in fact adding GST to fresh food would encourage people to pay cash at “the farm gate” … adding it to health and education once again hits the least able to afford it …

    And I suppose tory voters couldn’t care less about that … only rich folk should be healthy and educated …

  204. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 11:34 am

  205. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 12:01 pm

    Nice surprise from Telstra … just received my extra 100Gb per month broadband … free!

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/home-entertainment/telstra-gives-free-data-gift-as-australians-embrace-video-streaming/story-fnpjxq36-1227279687403

  206. Walrus permalink
    July 27, 2015 12:26 pm

    ROFLMAO

    It’s not a tax its a price

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/fitzgibbon-bells-cat-on-carbon-tax-hockey/story-fn3dxiwe-1227458167029

    TomR should be able to sort them out LOL

  207. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 12:53 pm

    TomR should be able to sort them out LOL

    It’s a rather redundant sort of argument, isn’t it.

    mind you, having hockey telling us that increasing taxes is bad, whilst talking up a 15% increase in the GST, makes anything he says redundant.

    The fact is, the GST will be a bigger carbon tax than any ETS ever will be

  208. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 27, 2015 12:56 pm

    Nice surprise from Telstra … just received my extra 100Gb per month broadband … free!

    To save money i was on a 5GB plan. Telstra increased my limit to 50GB free of charge.

    But after a few months i converted to the NBN since it has come through my area and the smallest plan is 10GB and i have not received my first bill yet but i will have to pay more for a smaller download limit.

  209. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:03 pm

    Wally, it is a price … even you should know that taxes don’t fluctuate with market forces … once again your ideology clouds logic and something you should know better … Liberal voter are you?

    Even if you “choose” to call it a tax … its a fkn furphy … what do you call a $41 billion subsidy? Fucking fairy floss!

    The IMF finds amid the total $41 billion Australian subsidy to coal, gas and petroleum energy use in 2015, global warming and air pollution represents about $25 billion.

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/renewable-energy-expense-attacked-as-australia-gifts-41-billion-to-fossil-fuels-20150725-gijsvh.html

    And who GIVES taxpayer money to polluters? The leaners … again ….

  210. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:17 pm

    I also like the way that saying that you don’t care what people call it means you support their definition.

    It was Gillards downfall, although she was correct. Call it what you bloody well want, it isn’t the Carbon Tax that was being referred to.

    And yet the libs say no new taxes, and we have been hit with nothing but new taxes. And the msm really couldn’t care less.

  211. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:18 pm

    The ‘Buffett rule’ is fair tax policy. Will the government follow Labor’s lead?
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/25/the-buffett-rule-is-fair-tax-policy-will-the-government-follow-labors-lead

  212. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:24 pm

    The leaners … again ….

    The biggest leaners of the lot TB

  213. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:29 pm

    And who GIVES taxpayer money to polluters? The leaners … again ….

    I find it hard to believe such large subsidies are given to the mining industry. I hope they are not talking about depreciation of assets because that is a normal business expense. I think the State govts provide some roads and port facilities but i think it would be small comapred to what we get back.

    The leaners … again ….

    It is our coal and gas exports that have saved Australia. We would be cactus without them.

  214. Walrus permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:33 pm

    “I find it hard to believe such large subsidies are given to the mining industry.”

    NoS the article is a crock full of shit. The article tries to “price” alleged “environmental damage”.

    The Climate Change Bed Wetterz really are reaching for straws these days.

  215. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:47 pm

    The article tries to “price” alleged “environmental damage”.

    Because environmental damage should be free?

    global warming and air pollution represents about $25 billion

    Quite a few billion left out there then

  216. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:47 pm

    The IMF finds amid the total $41 billion Australian subsidy to coal, gas and petroleum energy use in 2015

    Wally replies:

    NoS the article is a crock full of shit

    CHORTLE! FOS alright! 🙂

  217. Walrus permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:50 pm

    “Quite a few billion left out there then”

    Only alleged billion. The article gave no detail on the balance

  218. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:52 pm

    How can you possibly have a reasoned debate when people are in so much denial?

    Astounding!

  219. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:53 pm

    amid the total $41 billion Australian subsidy to coal, gas and petroleum energy use in 2015

  220. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:54 pm

    SUBSIDY

    TAXPAYER MONEY!

  221. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:54 pm

    $41 BILLION! What’s the deficit?

  222. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:54 pm

    What’s the budget?

  223. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 1:55 pm

    How much will the GST bring in?

  224. Walrus permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:02 pm

    How can you possibly have a reasoned debate when people are so much denied of details?

    Fixed !

  225. Walrus permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:05 pm

    “SUBSIDY”

    OK……lets slash that environental subsidy. We will stop writing out cheques to the Miners for the $21Billion.

    There done !

    Oh…………the fiscal position didn’t change…………………….LOL

  226. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:17 pm

    The article gave no detail on the balance

    Those details have been listed here before many times

    Ignorance is no defense for you in this, because you started nitpicking those, things like, “but they are claimable operating expenses” lol if you are a multinational oil company they are anyway

  227. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:20 pm

    the fiscal position didn’t change

    Yet the taxpayer is still viable for the environmental damage

  228. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:23 pm

    What subsidies does the mining industry receive? And even if they do we get back much more in royalties, taxes, employment and export income.

  229. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:32 pm

    Debauchery brit style, they always do it so well. Why can’t our pollies be as entertaining?

  230. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:33 pm

    Read the link …

    Here’s some on 2014 (that was last year if your not sure) …

    “The Queensland Government has spent about as much money supporting its mining industry as it’s spent on building new hospitals,” he observed.

    “The Western Australian Government has spent about as much money as it spent on its police force. So, these are enormous sums of money.” …

    … There’s no doubt the coal industry is the biggest recipient of tax payer subsidies – both directly and indirectly,” Dr Denniss added.

    “So even the idea that this assistance is proportionate to the contribution to the industry just doesn’t hold up, which again suggests that, if there’s a plan, if there’s a strategy that underpins this incredible tax payer generosity to the industry, it’s not apparent from the numbers.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-24/mining-industry-receives-billions-of-dollars-in-state-subsidies/5545714

    And don’t be fooled by Michael Roche’s rhetoric … he’s been up to his eyeballs within Queensland’s government for years …

  231. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:35 pm

    Debauchery brit style, they always do it so well. Why can’t our pollies be as entertaining?

    So that’s why The Mad Abbott wants to bring “peerage” back to Oz?

  232. Splatterbottom permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:37 pm

    “Australia’s most powerful gambling lobby” is the ALP which makes a motza from the pokies. Ask Wilkie why he was backstabbed by Gillard over pokies reform. What a lying cunt she was.

  233. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 2:57 pm

    July 27, 2015 11:34 am … I take it, sb?

    So, where’s yer link …

    BTW I don’t doubt it … it just proves that ALL our pollies are driven by Big Business ROBBER BARONS …

  234. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 3:03 pm

    You can understand why Wally has a conniption whenever I mention Robber Barons!

    Deny it all you want … but the truth is out there …

    One of the problems with the Australian tax system is that it is full of loopholes that allow mainly high income earners to dodge their fair share of tax.

    How loopholes are being exploited by multinational corporations has been laid bare by the recent Senate inquiry.

    But it’s not just multinationals that can avoid paying tax. Kerry Packer once famously said, “If anybody in this country doesn’t minimise their tax they want their head read.”

    This is advice that some very high income earners have taken to heart. In 2011-12 75 people who all earned more than a million dollars paid no income tax. Nil, zilch, zip, nada.

    Between them they earned $195m and paid not a cent in tax.

    They did this by filing huge deductions, reducing their taxable income to almost zero. While they were very keen not to pay tax they were far more generous when it came to buying tax advice. On average these 75 people paid $850,000 each for tax advice, an amount beyond the means of almost all Australians.

    From KL’s link … July 27, 2015 1:18 pm

  235. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 3:08 pm

    Ask Wilkie why he was backstabbed by Gillard over pokies reform.

    Yes, he was, but the ALP still put legislation in place, Andrews wouldn’t even have that.

    The only people backstabbed by andrews were the public. Wilkie wouldn’t get a look in.

    The pokies lobby donated to andrews both before and after he dropped Labor’s legislation.

  236. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 3:19 pm

    One minute Andrews is setting up a marriage counselling voucher service, taxpayer funded, which will go to his and his wife’s business interests and the next he is dismantling the legislation that is trying to protect the social harm to marriages caused by gambling addiction.

    http://yathink.com.au/article-display/sorry-mr-andrews-200-marriage-counselling-voucher-smells-to-me,103

  237. Walrus permalink
    July 27, 2015 3:43 pm

    “Those details have been listed here before many times”

    Really……?………I do mean credible ones

    I’m just happy that the ALP wants to do a rerun of the old Rudd Gillard Rudd policies.

    In fact I’m ecstatic.

    Where’s the financial modelling for this 50% reduction by the way

    Excuse me whilst I just hop off my chair and ROFLMAO

  238. July 27, 2015 4:00 pm
  239. July 27, 2015 4:02 pm

    “”In fact I’m ecstatic.””

    Me too! While a win of the 2007 election proportions is probably wishful thinking, Abbott’s going to have his arse handed to him on a plate at the next election.

  240. July 27, 2015 4:08 pm

    Let me just say it again for the benefit of the rusted on fuckwits…

    If a Federal Election were held now the ALP would win easily.

  241. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 27, 2015 4:15 pm

    If a Federal Election were held now the ALP would win easily.

    Just goes to show the foolishness of Australians

    Will unemployment go down under Labor? No it never does.
    Will debt go down under Labor? No, debt will get much worse.
    Will the boat people start coming again. Yep. We spent $11B housing all these people so far.

    Will there be an improvement in anything under Labor. No.

  242. Walrus permalink
    July 27, 2015 4:19 pm

    “If a Federal Election were held now the ALP would win easily.”

    But it’s not on now……………LOL

    And Shifty Shorten still has another date with the Royal Commission.

    One the reality of their bullshit Stop the Boats (maybe) policy plus a new Carbon Tax (any compensation by the way ?) sets in we should see a rather new set of numbers.

  243. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 4:48 pm

    sb, I suppose you could call that a “donation” … I think? 😉

    Reminds me my old man voted Labour in the UK but was a member of the Labour, Conservative and Liberal Clubs … he was a pisspot too, so he must have spread hgis donations evenly …

  244. July 27, 2015 5:37 pm

    “Let me just say it again for the benefit of the rusted on fuckwits…”

    One took the bait instantly!

  245. July 27, 2015 5:40 pm

    “Will there be an improvement in anything under Labor. No.”

    Is Kneel at all capable of free thought. No.

  246. July 27, 2015 5:44 pm

    “One the reality of their bullshit Stop the Boats (maybe) policy plus a new Carbon Tax (any compensation by the way ?) sets in we should see a rather new set of numbers.”

    I sincerely doubt it. Why? Well because the reality of the Coalition’s penchant for taking a stick to, demeaning & ignoring the bottom two thirds of the voting population has already well and truly set in.
    It’s been an awful long time since those polls have been anything but bleak for AbbottCorp.

    If Shorten was deposed, the rout would only become greater for Tony & The Entitled.

  247. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 6:04 pm

    italics hell, all of my own making

    Let me just say it again for the benefit of the rusted on fuckwits…

    Actually reb, I’m quite happy with that news 😉

    Oh ………… my bad 🙂

    But it’s not on now……………LOL

    I recall saying that a lot 😦

  248. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 27, 2015 6:20 pm

    Well because the reality of the Coalition’s penchant for taking a stick to, demeaning & ignoring the bottom two thirds of the voting population has already well and truly set in.

    I am not sure how true that is but for the one millionth time if the ALP did not trash the budget there would be no need for cuts.

    Unlike you lefties who live in laa laa land i believe we are in trouble and the time to start running surplus budgets is now.

  249. Walrus permalink
    July 27, 2015 6:21 pm

    So now the ALP wants bosses to pay for an employees poor personal life choices

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/labors-domestic-violence-leave-pledge-slammed/story-fnkgbb6w-1227458858764

  250. July 27, 2015 6:34 pm

    roy”” Today`s estimates mean total Australian unemployment and under-employment of 2.32 million (18.2% of the workforce) has now been above 2 million Australians for 43 straight months, more than 3`1/2`years.””

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6323-roy-morgan-unemployment-june-2015-201507020611

    #teabags

  251. July 27, 2015 6:38 pm

    Kneel, you are obstinate in your partisan density.

    Imagine, being able to perpetually blame a single political party for why the world/country/municipality won’t function ideally.

    When does your statute of limitations for blame expire? I suspect never .
    People like you are a BIG part of the overarching problem with our political quagmire.

  252. July 27, 2015 6:41 pm

    roy””Australian electors have a similarly disappointing view of Opposition Leader Bill Shorten`s handling of his job as Opposition Leader.

    A clear majority of 60% (up a large 12%) disapprove,

    only a record low 24% (down 10%) approve and more than twice as many as for Abbott, 16% (down 2%), still can`t say how they view the Opposition Leader after nearly two years in the job.”””

    http://www.roymorgan.com.au/findings/6367-better-pm-abbott-shorten-july-2015-201507230746

    #yaaaaaaay.blib #sigh

  253. July 27, 2015 6:42 pm

    “I am not sure how true that is but for the one millionth time if the ALP did not trash the budget there would be no need for cuts.”

    Hint: maybe the Coalition is suffering because they lied about said cuts prior to election…and then, when they sought (in futility) to implement them, they went about it as painfully obvious Lords & Masters would do so. People (other than Lords & Masters…and their idiot sycophants) can smell the unfairness of their intended ‘solutions’ (which are actually just a wish list of conservative economic policy & social fetish items).

    You are one of those idiots, Kneel.

  254. July 27, 2015 6:49 pm

    roy”””Deputy ALP Leader Tanya Plibersek 26% (up 3%) of electors is still the preferred Labor Leader ahead of Shadow Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Anthony Albanese 19% (up 6%), Opposition Leader Bill Shorten 12% (down 9%) and former Treasurer Wayne Swan 10% (unchanged).

    Tanya Plibersek 32% (up 2%) is also preferred amongst ALP supporters ahead of Bill Shorten 17% (down 9%), Anthony Albanese 16% (up 5%) and Wayne Swan 9% (unchanged).”””

    http://www.roymorgan.com.au/findings/6366-preferred-leader-liberal-alp-july-2015-201507230730

    roy””Australians aren`t fond of either major party leader”””

    #yaaaaay.blib #sigh

  255. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 6:52 pm

    The ABC has been so nobbled that the drum was turned into a book spruiking exercise for greg sheridan tonight, he professed his love forever for best mate abbott and flogged the book he’s written about his ‘romantic’ best friend.

    I’m assuming this is to help poor misjudged tony abbott get re-elected.

    I can’t help but feel the ABc should not have let sheridan get away with saying that labor gets much more money than the libs because they have union donations. No-one corrected that lie and the answer is on the ABC’s own website.

    The ABC is no more.

    Political donors gave Liberals $13 million, ALP $3.6 million before election, AEC figures show
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-03/liberal-pre-election-political-donations-outstrip-labor/5234544

  256. July 27, 2015 7:00 pm

    Alas, Bolt will still call for the ABC’s head, every other week day.

  257. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 7:00 pm

    poor personal life choices

    Holy Fucking Shit!

    And you vote. What hope our cuntry.

  258. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 7:02 pm

    No-one corrected that lie

    It’s at the point now ao that if it’s a ltdnews hack you assume it’s a lie, no correction needed.

    Perhaps when they tell the truth they will put out a correction>

    Not that I foresee that eventuality

  259. July 27, 2015 7:03 pm

    Safe & detached within an Ivory Tower, I’d suggest.

    ‘Employees’ should just be a bottomless pool to be cheaply exploited.

  260. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 7:04 pm

    #yaaaaay.blib #sigh

    lol. speaking of “rusted on fuckwits…” 😆 😆

  261. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 7:06 pm

  262. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 7:08 pm

    ‘Employees’ should just be a bottomless pool to be cheaply exploited.

    Speaking of which, I see the CFMEU are being dragged into the courts again here in Adelaide on the new hospital. Seems to be more a preoccupation to keep them tied up in there in an effort to diminish their capacity to keep workers safe and fairly reimbursed.

  263. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 7:10 pm

    Gutless, just like yabots running away from the SSM debate

  264. July 27, 2015 7:19 pm

    Dear my abc viewer, teh-drum is part of the `distainment` portfolio of programs designed `specifically` to provide teabags with `air-time` minutes to fulfill my abc`s `charter-requirements`. Discussion-entertainment is NOT news, and should not be treated as fact-based `news` by viewers, so greg`s book counts. By my abc providing `distainment` via panel-shows like teh-drum, it frees-up my abc production units to produce fact-based news and science programs which many viewers enjoy, such as landline, catylist and 4corners, free from the `balance` hinderence. On behalf of all of my abc management and production units, l apologize to all viewers without reservation for my abc NOT clearly identifying teh-drum as `discussion-entertainment`.

  265. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 7:34 pm

    Why support ABC Friends National Campaign?
    • The ABC is the most trusted, admired and valued national institution.
    • The ABC is under very serious threat – from politicians, commercial media organisations and certain lobby groups.
    • Large scale sackings have already occurred due to Government cuts to the ABC budget and more are planned.
    • The ABC has cut programs and is further centralising its operations in Sydney – which runs counter to its Charter.
    • Further cuts are planned – there is talk of charging people to watch iView (programs you’ve already paid for) – in effect privatisation by stealth.

    Ahead of the next federal election, the campaign is more important than ever – please help. The louder our voice, the greater our influence. Let your friends, family and colleagues know about the campaign by sharing this information, including the Ron Tandberg cartoon.

  266. July 27, 2015 7:35 pm

    Can over-excited team-cheerers `actually` prove roy is `rusted-on` to one team or the other.?

    (it`s not limited-news-poll)

  267. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 7:57 pm

    More organised religion BS …

    JEHOVAH’S Witnesses destroyed notes about child sexual abuse to stop them falling into the wrong hands and to “protect their wives”, a church elder has told a national hearing in Sydney.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/jehovahs-witnesses-face-inquiry/story-e6frfku9-1227458045290

    More hypocrisy!

  268. July 27, 2015 8:29 pm

    It’s the way people can excuse their dirty consciences, by pretending to hear voices from fantastical, unverifiable overseers, TB.

    Intellectual dishonesty. Institutional abuse of trust & power.

  269. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 27, 2015 8:33 pm

    Imagine, being able to perpetually blame a single political party for why the world/country/municipality won’t function ideally.

    I had several bad experiences during the Hawke/Keating years. And so did Australia. Who could forget the 18% home loan interest rates and 30 months of double digit unemployment.

    But i have trouble with Labor supporters because of so many falsehoods they say. Take AWB scandal. Many lefties said we were trading wheat with the enemy. Turns out it was legal to trade with the enemy in fact the Oil For Food program was a legal UN program and hundreds of companies around the world were selling things to Iraq. What was not legal was for money to land up in the hands of Sadam Hussein which is what happened.

  270. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 8:45 pm

    What was not legal was for money to land up in the hands of Sadam Hussein which is what happened.

    Funny. cos that’s what lots of ‘lefties’ were saying 😯

  271. TB Queensland permalink
    July 27, 2015 8:58 pm

    Mr Horley, an elder in the church for more than 30 years, said notes about sexual abuse allegations were not kept in case they fell into the wrong hands.

    “We do not want our wives knowing our stuff – what sort of things we are dealing with,” Mr Horley said.

    He also said they destroyed notes because they wanted to limit the number of people in the congregation who knew about the abuse.

    Mr Horley also said he did not realise at the time the abuse was a criminal matter, and it was not the church’s practice to report allegations of sexual abuse to police.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/jehovahs-witnesses-face-inquiry/story-e6frfku9-1227458045290

    So not only paedophiles, liars, cheats and believers in the “book” … they had no understanding that child molestation was illegal?

    What utter bollocks …

    Hypocrites all …

  272. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 27, 2015 9:06 pm

    Funny. cos that’s what lots of ‘lefties’ were saying

    No i remember lots of lefties saying trading with Iraq was wrong. Like trading with Germany or Japan during WW2.

    And i doubt any bribes were paid by AWB to Sadam. What appears to have happened is that wheat was legally shipped to Iraq via Jordon. The wheat was then legally trucked from Jordon to Iraq. The trucking company charged slightly higher fees than normal and then passed the difference to Sadam. I doubt if anyone in AWB knew what was going on.

  273. Tom R permalink
    July 27, 2015 9:10 pm

    they had no understanding that child molestation was illegal?

    There are still neanderthals who seem to think that being beaten by your partner is a “lifestyle choice”

    Now THAT is utter bollocks.

  274. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 10:50 pm

    Political donations: why voters are tuning out
    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/political-donations-why-voters-are-tuning-out-20150727-gil2vl.html

  275. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 27, 2015 11:08 pm

  276. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:18 am

    I see the CFMEU are being dragged into the courts again here in Adelaide on the new hospital. Seems to be more a preoccupation to keep them tied up in there in an effort to diminish their capacity to keep workers safe and fairly reimbursed.

    Yeah! Why should a union official have to obey the law? They’re above that kind of petty bureaucracy.

  277. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:33 am

    Yeah! Why should a union official have to obey the law?

    Is it because the “law” is (re-)written to protect big business from Unions finding out they are practicing poor safety and endangering lives?

  278. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:36 am

    I see.

    Which law is that?

  279. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:37 am

    “………. poor personal life choices”

    Holy Fucking Shit!”

    LOL

    So you believe people are not responsible in mistakenly selecting their abusive partners and their bosses should therefore bear the cost of that mistake ?

    How bizarre !

    Holy fucking shit…………no wonder South Australia is so fucked up

  280. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:40 am

    Which law is that?

    The one that prevents them going on site without knowing hteir are safety issues, which is difficult to determine if you cannot go on site.

    However, this is not related to that. this is about a meeting where someone reckons they got sweary, but then he couldn’t substantiate the claims. Which seemed to me to be just more waste of Unions time.

  281. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:42 am

    One of TomR’s CFMEU “heroes”…………………

    The Sydney Morning Herald, May 25:

    “On July 24 last year, (Collier) harassed another female Fair Work inspector, and played the song Who Let The Dogs Out on a loud hailer when she entered a worksite.”

  282. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:46 am

    So you believe people are not responsible in mistakenly selecting their abusive partners

    Perhaps you and Rosie Batty should sit down for a little one on one time. Perhaps she can talk some sense into your little mind.

  283. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:48 am

    I think unions can go on to site to investigate a nominated safety issue, but you what to allow them just to wander on without a specific reason?

    Does your idea apply to a manufacturing/production site? You expect them to just turn up to a busy construction site and walk around without nominating a reason??

  284. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:50 am

    Going on your comment, you applaud that kind of behaviour wally (if the story actually turned out to be true)

  285. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:52 am

    You expect them to just turn up to a busy construction site and walk around without nominating a reason??

    It is the time involved which has stretched out to (sometimes) days.

    By the time the Unions get there, the cover up is on.

    But like I said, that is not the specific law in this case, it is just another bullshit legal proceeding designed, apparently, to keep the Unions well away from the actual sites.

  286. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:59 am

    “…your little mind”

    ROLMA………..you wont even answer the question.

    How is the boss responsible ?

  287. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:00 am

    “Going on your comment, you applaud that kind of behaviour wally ”

    Not at all

    But you applaud that Union for its thuggery

  288. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:03 am

    Oh by the way the Joe Hildebrand and Rosie Batty confrontation is just one of your usual “look over there ” stunts.

    Completely different “branch” of the same subject.

  289. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:04 am

    How is the boss responsible ?

    How is the boss responsible for you getting sick?

    But, that is not my issue with your statement.

    Reducing the issue of domestic violence to “life choices” is just fucking disgusting. And wrong!

  290. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:07 am

    But you applaud that Union for its thuggery

    No, I applaud any Union for protecting workers

    is just one of your usual “look over there ” stunts.

    Bullshit, he was trying to minimise the topic, just as you are. Your both being ignorant fuckwits in that respect.

  291. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:09 am

    Reducing the issue of domestic violence to “life choices” is just fucking realisic. And correct!

    Fixed !

  292. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:11 am

    “How is the boss responsible for you getting sick?”

    Periodic illness is a part of everyone’s life. So it deserves some coverage.

  293. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:14 am

    Domestic violence is becoming a part of everyone’s life. So it deserves some coverage.

    To call Domestic Violence a “Life Choice” is reprehensible. Watch the video of Rosie Batty and educate yourself wally

  294. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:21 am

    Doesn’t personal leave already exist? That covers personal and family illness and injury. Is this leave in addition? Why?

  295. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:23 am

    “To call Domestic Violence a “Life Choice” is reprehensible.”

    You fucking selective dickhead……………….I did not call domestic violence a “Life Choice” I said it was “poor personal life choices” in the context of “partner selection”.

    Joe Hildebrand………….

    “It is the role of every adult who is aware of children being sexually abused to blow the whistle on it; it is their job to raise the alarm,”……“In cases when the person who is in a position to do that is also a victim of abuse themselves, that makes it enormously hard, I certainly know that, but that is not a reason to say ‘we’ll just let it go on.’……“That does not help the child victim, that does not help the abuse victim in the relationship; that’s an appalling state of affairs, it can’t be allowed to continue,” ……….“That is not blaming the victim at all – what I am saying is, to the victim: be a survivor, use whatever means you have to get out.”

    It has absolutely no relevance to this part of the debate.

    So its more of your “look over there” rubbish

  296. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:25 am

    So there is 20 days for annual leave, 8 (or 10) days for personal leave, and with that (at least) 28 days, there is a need for more paid leave?

  297. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:30 am

    I did not call domestic violence a “Life Choice” I said it was “poor personal life choices” in the context of “partner selection”.

    So, you didn’t call it a life choice, you called it a poor personal life choice

    😯

    No matter how you spin and squirm, you are still calling it a life choice you ignorant tool. It might be personal, it might be poor, but it is still a life choice.

    It has absolutely no relevance to this part of the debate.

    It has every relevance, for the reason I have already highlighted for you.

    Is this leave in addition? Why?

    You see, wally abandoned any reasonable debate on the actual matter when he called domestic violence a life choice. Of course, he could have said, oops, sorry, but that just doesn’t seem to be his way.

  298. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:31 am

    here is a need for more paid leave?

    Ask mr yabot, who took that to the last election.

  299. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:33 am

    “…….. you are still calling it a life choice you ignorant tool. ”

    So who else chose the abusive partner if it was not the one being abused you idiot

  300. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:33 am

    “wally abandoned any reasonable debate on the actual matter ”

    Cop out

  301. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:34 am

    “It might be personal, it might be poor, but it is still a life choice.”

    You just confirmed it

  302. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:38 am

    You just confirmed it

    What, that that is what you are denigrating it too?

    So who else chose the abusive partner if it was not the one being abused you idiot

    Who said they were abusive when they met? Who knows what turned them abusive. Make as many assumptions as you like, and you still end up in hildebrand territory.

    Your ignorance is astounding in its magnitude.

  303. July 28, 2015 10:40 am

    I suspect that what is being proposed is that the ‘domestic violence’ leave could be legitimately taken out of existing sick leave hours; much the same way that ‘carer’s leave’ works now.

    I don’t think it’s supposed to be ‘extra’ leave per se.

    Happy to stand corrected.

    As usual, some can only see the case for the ‘poor’ employer.

  304. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:40 am

    ,I>Ask mr yabot, who took that to the last election.

    I thought you were supporting the claim. Are you, or are you just defaulting to Abbott?

  305. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:41 am

    So you believe people are not responsible in mistakenly selecting their abusive partners and their bosses should therefore bear the cost of that mistake ?

    People are not responsible for their partner’s behaviour, so stop blaming the victim.

    If a bloke gets bashed up by thugs when on a night out, I’m pretty sure the boss would allow some sick leave to recover from injuries while incapable of working.

    Often ‘people’ don’t know their partners are going to be abusive, the partner manages to hold themselves in check until the commitment is made and then it starts. It is not a ‘mistake’ by the person, it is calculated, deliberate, controlling actions by a partner.

    DV is not a low socio-economic, poor education problem, it occurs in the best and most affluent of households too.

    The cycle of violence by someone you love is difficult to extract yourself from, especially when you know you’re going to be hounded, stalked and possibly killed for daring to leave such a relationship. Talking about real paralysing fear, real danger to life and a useless piece of paper for protection. The partner has by this time isolated the woman from her protections, her family and her network of friends.

    You would go to jelly if faced with anything like that walrus.

  306. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:44 am

    I think you will find that the ACTU claim is for 10 days paid leave for family violence, and 10 days unpaid for casuals. It would be a separate award clause to personal leave.

  307. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:46 am

    so stop blaming the victim.

    I AGREE!

  308. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:47 am

    …I suspect that what is being proposed is that the ‘domestic violence’ leave could be legitimately taken out of existing sick leave hours; much the same way that ‘carer’s leave’ works now.
    I don’t think it’s supposed to be ‘extra’ leave per se…

    That’s how I read it too toilet, it is not an extra burden on the employer but acknowledging and giving a name to the need for the leave. Would help with gathering statistics for the prevalence of the problem too.

    Walrus is being the bean counter, doesn’t think the employer should know or care about any employee problems, “just do the work, go home and get bashed on your own time and back to work the next day”

  309. July 28, 2015 10:48 am

    Separate, but not necessarily ‘in addition to’?

    Sounds like an ambit claim anyway.

  310. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:50 am

    “People are not responsible for their partner’s behaviour”

    Oh I see but …………..Employers are responsible for their employees predicament when the employee is not responsible for their partner’s behaviour.

    Glad that clears it up

  311. July 28, 2015 10:51 am

    I am entitled to X days ‘sick’ leave & X days ‘carers’ or ‘bereavement’ leave. If I take carer’s leave, it is deducted from my sick leave hours.

    Not that difficult to understand, I’d have thought.

  312. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:51 am

    “doesn’t think the employer should know or care about any employee problems,”

    Not what I said

    I said they should not have to finance the leave

  313. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:54 am

    “Who said they were abusive when they met? Who knows what turned them abusive. ”

    And how is that the employers problem ?

  314. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:56 am

    I’d imagine there is a fair bit of ambit in the claim, but we are entitled to debate the case the ACTU puts to the FWC, and their claim is for a separate entitlement to 10 days domestic violence leave.

    In any event, I think it is extremely difficult to expect women who are experiencing domestic violence to discuss it with their employer to the point of specifically saying they need to access additional leave because of their violent relationship.

  315. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:58 am

    It could also help with forcing the perpetrator into acknowledging their behaviour and getting assistance and counselling a lot sooner if employers are proactive about this ‘whole of community’ problem. Maybe they can instigate action by dobbing in a perpetrator [in a way that doesn’t leave the victim further endangered].

    No more hidden behind closed doors with the veil of privacy which has allowed the harm to continue unabated. A further protection.

  316. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:58 am

    Queensland Council of Unions assistant general secretary Ros McLennan said 1.5 million workers had access to paid domestic violence leave thanks to unions but many more did not.

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/07/26/labor-pushes-paid-domestic-violence-leave

    Yes, I didn’t think it was extra days, just extending what the current leave can be used for. Of course, that is not how ltdnews couched it.

    Employers are responsible for their employees predicament

    Employers are responsible for enabling their employees well being

    Fixed it for ya pig

  317. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:59 am

    “I think it is extremely difficult to expect women who are experiencing domestic violence to discuss it with their employer ”

    Exactly………and it becomes another disincentive to hiring women

  318. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:00 am

    ROFL

  319. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:01 am

    and it becomes another disincentive to hiring women

    Oh, so ignoring it is for their own good is it?

  320. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:02 am

    Who knows what turned them abusive. ”

    Just think about that.

    Still blaming the victim aren’t you?

    In your world, is the perpetrator ever responsible for their own behaviour?

  321. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:03 am

    “Fixed it for ya pig”

    BwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  322. July 28, 2015 11:03 am

    I don’t think it’s an extra ten days leave at all.

    I think it’s just an extra ‘reason’ to be able to legitimately take leave from existing sick leave.

    Rather than having said leave disallowed & potentially risking termination for prolonged absence; it enables ‘domestic violence’ as a rationalisation for leave taken.

    I imagine a majority would just take it as sick leave anyway, if they weren’t too embarrassed to declare it to a medical professional.

    The employer advocates are jumping at shadows (as they do).

  323. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:07 am

    “Who knows what turned them abusive. ”

    Just think about that.”

    What are you on about…..that’s your own quotation.

    I’m not blaming anyone.

    Mine is a financial argument of why should the employer pay for it ?

  324. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:10 am

    “Oh, so ignoring it is for their own good is it?”

    Whatever your pea brained thought process wants

  325. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:11 am

    Exactly………and it becomes another disincentive to hiring women

    Even more victim blaming and shaming, but this time women who aren’t victims will be targeted for something that ‘could’ happen. A collective punishment for all women!

    Wow, so we know women get bashed and broken but instead of helping them and the community deal with it, we’ll ensure they don’t have any financial means to help themselves!

    How about not hiring men who bash women?

  326. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:11 am

    “I imagine a majority would just take it as sick leave anyway, if they weren’t too embarrassed to declare it to a medical professional.”

    I tend to agree. Stress brought on by partner abuse would be a concern for a doctor anyway.

  327. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:12 am

    “How about not hiring men who bash women?”

    I wouldn’t hire one

  328. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:13 am

  329. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:13 am

    “……….but this time women who aren’t victims will be targeted for something that ‘could’ happen. A collective punishment for all women!”

    If you wish to ignore the reality then that’s just fine

  330. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:14 am

    What are you on about…..that’s your own quotation.

    That was my comment ao, to be taken in context with the preceding comment. I was thinking perhaps drinking etc fyi

    Mine is a financial argument of why should the employer pay for it ?

    Couched in the language of victim blaming I will remind you.

  331. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:20 am

    “Couched in the language of victim blaming”

    Erm…………NO !

  332. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:23 am

    I don’t wish to be picky, or unnecessarily advocate an employer positon, but we might as well get the facts right about the claim re domestic violence –

    From the 2012 ACTU congress-
    25. In workplace bargaining, the ACTU strongly encourages unions to include provisions designed to protect and support employees who are employees experiencing family or domestic violence in line with the following principles:
    a) Dedicated additional paid leave for employees experiencing family or domestic violence, with an aim to achieving 10 days paid leave ;

  333. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:24 am

    “……….but this time women who aren’t victims will be targeted for something that ‘could’ happen. A collective punishment for all women!”

    Would you say that if the employer was a female ?

  334. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:24 am

    Erm…………NO !

    Erm…………YES !

    So now the ALP wants bosses to pay for an employees poor personal life choices

  335. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:32 am

    Erm…………No

    In the context of being saddled with an abusive partner because of a personal decision made . Not in the context of choosing to be bashed.

  336. July 28, 2015 11:33 am

    “a) Dedicated additional paid leave for employees experiencing family or domestic violence, with an aim to achieving 10 days paid leave”

    Erm…ambit claim, likely designed to open the door for ‘domestic violence’ leave to be used as (not in addition to) sick leave, just like ‘carer’s leave’.

  337. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:38 am

    In the context of being saddled with an abusive partner because of a personal decision made . Not in the context of choosing to be bashed.

    CONTEXT!

    WTF!!

    You know what you can do with you none existent “context”!

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/07/22/lawyers-the-only-winners-in-joe-hockeys-defamation-case/#comment-111053

  338. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:39 am

    Oh I see but …………..Employers are responsible for their employees predicament when the employee is not responsible for their partner’s behaviour.

    No

    Employers are understanding and compassionate for their valued employee’s predicament and can add more weight to community concern and protection for victims [who happen to have high rates of murder].

    Employers are part of a society and community, DV is a community problem and it has been for far too long ignored. Employers spruik about how they are such good people and are doing such wonderful things in the community, they even give themselves medals and awards for it. Here is something else they can do.

  339. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:43 am

    DV is a community problem and it has been for far too long ignored.

    Or denigrated and downplayed like wally tried to do with his initial (and following) comments

  340. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:52 am

    I find it difficult to imagine that someone experiencing domestic violence can’t claim it through the existing personal leave provisions.

    That’s why it isn’t necessarily an ambit claim.

    The ACTU is seeking an additional entitlement, and while that’s their job, let’s not pretend that all they’re doing is shoring up or clarifying an existing leave entitlement

  341. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:54 am

    “You know what you can do with you none existent “context”!”

    Only a fuckwit Troll like you would assume that the meaning was that they happily chose to partner up with someone who they already knew would inflict domestic violence perhaps death upon them.

    As I said only a fuckwit Troll like you

  342. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:57 am

    “Or denigrated and downplayed like wally tried to do with his initial (and following) comments”

    As I said only a fuckwit Troll like you.

    You really are one despicable cunt

  343. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:57 am

    Would you say that if the employer was a female ?

    Of course I would, doesn’t matter who the employer is, why do you think there would be a difference?

  344. public toilet permalink
    July 28, 2015 11:58 am

    Ever had leave denied over semantics or interpretation, YomM?

    I didn’t think so.

    Adding domestic violence as a rationalization for leave legitimises it.

  345. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 12:00 pm

    You really are one despicable cunt

    Wow, I wonder what terms you would use to describe someone who downplays domestic violence and likens it simplistically to a “life choice”

    You’d probably think that was a fair thing.

    I find it difficult to imagine that someone experiencing domestic violence can’t claim it through the existing personal leave provisions.

    Well, as I highlighted, some people can. But not all … yet.

  346. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 12:08 pm

    Ever had leave denied over semantics or interpretation, YomM?

    I get the impression he is the one denying, not being denied 😉

  347. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 12:12 pm

    “I wonder what terms you would use to describe someone who downplays domestic violence”

    So says the chief supporter of the CFMEU

    The Sydney Morning Herald, July 22:

    “Only eight people were in court 5.3 at the Downing Centre at 9.30 on Monday morning but the sense of shock in the room was clear. The magistrate was clearly surprised … The solicitor for the prosecution advised the court that all charges against … Luke Collier had been withdrawn, “without admissions”. She named a detective inspector who had made the decision. The decision had been made that morning, after the victim was a no-show … Earlier this year, Collier pleaded guilty to a charge of assault. His victim was a woman. He was scheduled to appear in court on Monday on multiple charges, including aggravated assault, involving the same woman … An obvious inference can be drawn that the witness felt intimidated. Even if there was not overt coercion or inducement to drop her complaint, she felt sufficiently intimidated, or compromised, or exhausted to proceed … The turn of events … served as another reminder that the criminal law operates very poorly on building sites…………………..The royal commission into union corruption … has published evidence of Collier’s intimidation of women on work sites on several occasions. He has been accused by a female government official of spitting at her on a work site last year … His conduct is part of a pattern of harassment of women by CFMEU officials. ”

    Like I said you truly are a despicable cunt. And a hypocrite to boot.

    Your family must be soooooooooooo proud

  348. Splatterbottom permalink
    July 28, 2015 12:17 pm

    So is the new regime additional leave days or an additional circumstance to access existing leave days?

  349. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 12:30 pm

    lolz

    and wally complains about people “looking over there”

    “all charges against … Luke Collier had been withdrawn”

  350. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 12:35 pm

    “……..and wally complains about people “looking over there”……….”

    Yes…………………………At more examples of your hypocrisy

    “all charges against … Luke Collier had been withdrawn”

    Yes not surprised. Your beloved CFMEU succeeds in intimidation yet again.

    Nothing to see here.

    You hypocrite !

  351. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 12:39 pm

    As I said only a fuckwit Troll like you.
    You really are one despicable cunt

    Well, you did do exactly that walrus, I thought you were deliberately baiting!

  352. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 12:44 pm

    So you also assumed that the meaning was that they happily chose to partner up with someone who they already knew would inflict domestic violence perhaps death upon them.

    “I thought you were deliberately baiting!”

    Well you were wrong !

  353. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 12:53 pm

    So you also assumed that the meaning was … for you to demean Domestic Violence

  354. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:06 pm

    Is the ACTU leading any evidence to show that people are being denied personal leave for family violence due to “semantics”?

  355. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:10 pm

    “So you also assumed that the meaning was … for you to demean Domestic Violence”

    You really are a very irrelevant Troll

  356. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:18 pm

    Is the ACTU leading any evidence to show that people are being denied personal leave for family violence due to “semantics”?

    If there is no issue, then there should be no problem with having it defined, would it not. (irrelevantly or not)

  357. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:22 pm

    The culmination of “life choices”

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/29062838/domestic-dispute-caught-on-dash-cam/

  358. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:37 pm

    If there is no issue, then there should be no problem with having it defined, would it not.

    Without trying to be unnecessarily difficult, what is there in this definition that would prevent an employee from accessing personal leave for domestic violence?

    From the FWA website –

    Sick and carer’s leave (also known as personal leave or personal / carer’s leave) lets an employee take time off to help them deal with personal illness, caring responsibilities and family emergencies.

  359. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:40 pm

    “The culmination of “life choices”..”

    You really have whipped yaself into a frenzy……………I suggest you call this you moron

    Ph : 13 11 14

  360. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:41 pm

    One word yomm … “semantics” 😉

  361. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:42 pm

    You have a good chat to someone you Troll.

    I’m off to lunch

  362. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:48 pm

    More likely…it’s semantics to argue that family violence isn’t comprehended within the existing definition of personal leave.

  363. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 1:53 pm

    it’s semantics to argue that family violence isn’t comprehended within the existing definition of personal leave.

    Then why do some agreements have it explicitly written in, so that some people are explicitly already covered, whilst others aren’t?

  364. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 2:15 pm

    Given the definition provided by FWA, exactly how would someone experiencing family violence be prevented from accessing personal leave?

    • So far, it has been suggested that the ACTU is making an ambit claim to ensure that personal leave can be taken, or
    • It’s because employees don’t have access to personal leave.

    …and given that ALP types criticise a royal commission into union corruption because of cost, how is it acceptable to have a full bench (all members of it are very highly paid), with a range of sidekicks, researchers, para legals, transcript writers, admin support etc (all at public expense) hear a claim from the ACTU that is either just ambit or a reparation of an existing entitlement?

  365. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 2:16 pm

    “repetition”

  366. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 2:28 pm

    …and given that ALP types criticise a royal commission into union corruption because of cost

    To be fair, my criticism is because it is a naked political venture, the costs are simply an extension of that.

  367. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 2:37 pm

    Even you seem to be suggesting that the union claim for family violence is ambit.

    So we have a FWA full bench (a President, a Vice President and a Commissioner or 2) with all the public service infrastructure that goes with them, transcript writers, advisors, researchers… and it is apparently for an ambit claim!

    Great use of taxpayer funds!

  368. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 2:57 pm

    Even you seem to be suggesting that the union claim for family violence is ambit.

    I know that wasn’t aimed at me, who was it aimed at?

  369. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 3:10 pm

    You said – I didn’t think it was extra days, just extending what the current leave can be used for.

    But you’ve struggled to identify exactly how it isn’t comprehended by the existing definition (which I have provided from FWA)

    So we have a hugely expensive Full Bench, and all the cost that goes with it…for exactly what reason?

  370. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 3:18 pm

    But you’ve struggled to identify exactly how it isn’t comprehended by the existing definition

    Actually yomm, refer back to my “one word” answer.

  371. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 3:35 pm

    I see, so we have a FWA full bench (and all the costly FWA/public service support & infrastructure), hearing something to do with semantics, that you can’t actually define!

    But we have crystallised the issue – it’s either ambit or semantics.

  372. TB Queensland permalink
    July 28, 2015 4:02 pm

    So it wasn’t the old man after all it was my mother’s fault for choosing to marry him …

    Mmmmm ….

  373. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 4:05 pm

    “…….it was my mother’s fault”

    More verballing

  374. Tom R permalink
    July 28, 2015 5:12 pm

    it’s either ambit or semantics.

    You as much as anyone can understand how “semantics” can be used in any sort of dealings between employee and employer, wouldn’t you yomm?

  375. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 28, 2015 5:47 pm

    So it wasn’t the old man after all it was my mother’s fault for choosing to marry him …
    Mmmmm ….

    Exactly TB

  376. Walrus permalink
    July 28, 2015 5:51 pm

    TB in action

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c7_1437208005

  377. July 28, 2015 7:55 pm

    tr””the `law` is (re-)written to protect big business from Unions finding out they are practicing poor safety and endangering lives?”””#correct

    #but the onions aren`t moving swiftly enough with the times either.

    #as most of public is now armed with ipad-photography, Clever onions will be setting-up rapid response to workers/members, having them `photograph` the `offence` say machine with-out safety-guard, name and address of offending-biz, and ensure via twitter/fakebook very publicly the offence is followed-thru by ohs-enforcement and `penalties` applied.

  378. July 28, 2015 8:16 pm

    boo-of.melb””a) Dedicated additional paid leave””

    #lt has not gone un-noticed that somebody is `probably` being less than honest, and less than truthful. Wailing on his favorite fetish FROM 2012, and of course he didn`t include the `link`, or full context, numb-nuts shows `a)` only, what does `b)` and `c)` and `d)`.. say

  379. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 28, 2015 9:09 pm

    I knew my personal troll/sock puppet wouldn’t be able to resist this discussion!

    Hilarious.

  380. TB Queensland permalink
    July 28, 2015 10:11 pm

    But tbagz has a point or three … b) c) d) ?

  381. July 28, 2015 10:43 pm

    2319 .. I knew my corporate-troll wouldn`t be able to #supply a link to back-up his 2012 bullshit!

    Hilarious.

  382. July 29, 2015 8:00 am

    How come ToM gets a personal troll and the rest of us don’t?

    It’s just not right!

  383. Tom R permalink
    July 29, 2015 8:18 am

    How come ToM gets a personal troll and the rest of us don’t?

    But aren’t I wally(lifechoices) personal troll?

    He seems to think I is.

  384. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 29, 2015 8:50 am

    I know!

    It is so flattering to have someone (even if it is an incomprehensible, illiterate dill) go to the trouble of being a personal troll!

    It’s a little like having a personal jester, I can choose to make a particular comment with the certainty that my personal troll will pop up!

  385. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 29, 2015 8:52 am

    But aren’t I wally(lifechoices) personal troll?

    Well, I’m sure he appreciates it too. But you haven’t gone to all the trouble of being a sock puppet for him, so it doesn’t really count.

  386. Walrus permalink
    July 29, 2015 9:04 am

    “He seems to think I is.”

    No I dont.

    My Trolls dont drag their knuckles along the ground

  387. July 29, 2015 5:33 pm

    2319 .. reb better go and beg nova to return dumpty:-)

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