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Rostrum

September 3, 2015

11204402_10153131982228404_7388792995334059603_n

So you lie dead, curled in the sand
in your poppy red shirt,
and little brown shoes,
laced lovingly by fearful hands,
who faced a paper boat and
the cold embrace of a soulless ocean
as the safest cradle offered.
Hands that dared hope
you would walk again on soft green grass,
and paddle laughing in the licking shallows
of a sun-kissed beach,
not facedown cold
with flooded lungs.

And we have room.
Room in the corner of our eyes
for a budding tear,
quickly uprooted.
Room in our newsfeed for
a momentarily gutting photo.
Room in our graveyards.
But we don’t have room in our homes,
room in our schools,
room to push you smiling on a swing
inside our playgrounds.
We don’t have room in our hearts.

We don’t care that you are dead.
We care only for the inconvenience of
our own discomfort,
relieved to no longer need
to sacrifice the crumbs you would
have quietly gathered from beneath
our bloated tables,
or endure your living presence
enrage our blind and hungry god
of economic growth.
We are vacuous,
but we have no room.
So you lie curled in the sand,
in your little brown shoes.

By Laura Tharion

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225 Comments leave one →
  1. igor prosin permalink
    September 3, 2015 6:46 pm

    It is a sign that we humans have not learned anything.

  2. TB Queensland permalink
    September 3, 2015 7:28 pm

    I saw the photo … and just sat there … and the thought went through my mind … god? What god?

  3. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 3, 2015 8:27 pm

    Makes me want to cry. Terrible image to see. I know people are divided and some say the photo should not be shown as too distressing. I am in the camp that says it needs to be seen, AS have a human face and human misery, it should not be out of sight.
    Painful to view, I bet he was such a sweetie.
    On the beach like seaweed, just so sad.

  4. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 3, 2015 8:37 pm

    Painful to view, I bet he was such a sweetie.
    On the beach like seaweed, just so sad.

    So were the 1500 people who drowned under the ALP. And most probably 5 times that number.

    But nobody cared until Abbott was elected.

    Why post pictures like this now? Why not 5 years ago when Rudd/Gillard were in power?

  5. September 3, 2015 8:46 pm

    “Why post pictures like this now? Why not 5 years ago when Rudd/Gillard were in power?”

    I think I’m just going to let that comment hang there in the air for a while.

    Congratulations Neil. I think you’ve finally achieved self-actualisation with that remark.

  6. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 3, 2015 9:11 pm

  7. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 3, 2015 9:13 pm

  8. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 3, 2015 9:35 pm

    2007 bin 128 shiraz

    hic

  9. TB Queensland permalink
    September 3, 2015 9:48 pm

    Intelligent, compassionate comment, ToM …

  10. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 3, 2015 9:51 pm

    Perhaps there would be more compassion if the child had been attacked by a shark.

  11. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 3, 2015 10:21 pm

    I have no idea what the problem is, but Fifi is driving me home and I’ve had quite a pleasant meal with fine wine.

  12. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 7:58 am

    Congratulations Neil. I think you’ve finally achieved self-actualisation with that remark.

    Here I was thinking he was just validating what an immense fuck-knuckle he is.

  13. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 7:58 am

    And I’ll bet the answer is still ‘no’

  14. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 8:21 am

    How many have we sent back in boats?

  15. September 4, 2015 8:33 am

    His policies have been inhumane, of dubious legality and strikingly at odds with the country’s tradition: http://goo.gl/XB2W5b

  16. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 8:56 am

    From the link reb

    If true, that account, which the Australian government has not disputed, would represent a violation of international laws designed to prevent human smuggling and protect asylum seekers.

    So, who is investigating to see if it is true or not?

  17. TB Queensland permalink
    September 4, 2015 9:50 am

    His policies have been inhumane, of dubious legality and strikingly at odds with the country’s tradition:

    If I may clarify, sreb (not everyone reads links I’ve discovered over the years) .. His meaning Tony Abbott’s policies … they really are contrary to our Australian culture …

    Isn’t it odd … we can have free trade agreements with countries all over the world … but people are not allowed freedom of movement in the 21st Century … especially to escape war, famine and pestilence …

    Nothing changes …

  18. Walrus permalink
    September 4, 2015 10:29 am

    “………….but people are not allowed freedom of movement in the 21st Century…….”

    Yeah………great idea………….spoken like a true Leftist “Earthian”

    Let’s have more people encouraged to jump on boats then drowning themselves. That sort of then solves the problem along Darwinian theory.

    Well done !

    One of your best ideas

  19. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 10:57 am

  20. TB Queensland permalink
    September 4, 2015 11:01 am

    Let’s have more people encouraged to jump on boats then drowning themselves.

    There you go again putting your thoughts into my comments …

    If there was more freedom of movement then they would not be getting onto leaky boats … they could move freely … just think past your me, me, me right wing point view …

    If people could move freely across THEIR planet then the likes of ISIL would be left by themselves … those “states” that treated people well and were successful would attract the people who wanted to be successful and safe …

    … the people now swamping Europe are trying to survive for their families and they are stuck between a rock (civil war) and a hard place (Western governments) …

    Do you believe we should increase our refugee intake under these circumstances?

  21. TB Queensland permalink
    September 4, 2015 11:02 am

    One of your best ideas

    At least I have some …

  22. September 4, 2015 11:02 am

    “”just think past your me, me, me right wing point view …””

    A bit of a tall order I suspect…

  23. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 11:09 am

    …Let’s have more people encouraged to jump on boats then drowning themselves. That sort of then solves the problem along Darwinian theory…

    Why not, why shouldn’t they participate in the global economy too. They are obviously very willing to change their lives for the better. Closed borders for people goes against the entire capitalist concept of no borders/barriers to the global economy. What you are talking about when you argue for keeping people out [the saving from death is a fake argument from people who don’t want them here at all] is keeping ‘certain’ people out. Wanting to maintain control of the ‘culture’ of this country to what is comfortable for the dominant power structure [white, male & christian]

  24. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 11:18 am

    Tony Abbott Backs Boat Turn Backs As A Way To Stop ‘Tragic’ Deaths Like Aylan Kurdi
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2015/09/04/abbott-backs-boat-turn-backs_n_8086052.html

    …The Times notes that European officials have travelled to Australia recently on fact-finding missions and that Abbott has urged European governments to follow his model…

    The Australian public don’t even know the facts of the secret ‘on water matters’ ‘in island concentration camp’ & ‘in the streets border farce’ models

  25. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 11:23 am

  26. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 11:25 am

  27. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 4, 2015 11:37 am

    I see and Craig Emerson is such an authority. I prefer it when he plays the air guitar and sings an old Skyhooks mimber

  28. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 12:29 pm

    and by the way, I don’t like the decline of facts and rise of opinion much, either

    They may not “decline” facts, but they quite often ignore them. I read the story he linked to where he reckons they put the “facts” forward.

    They entirely forgot to mention these facts

  29. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 12:37 pm

    That sort of then solves the problem along Darwinian theory.

    That’s a pig ignorant comment if ever there was one. You’re somehow implying that this is their free choice? Like they had a say in a mad leader trashing their country, and western countries fostering the environment for an entity like ISIS to thrive and come in and destroy their own efforts to try and reclaim their country from the madman.

    And you demean it down to “The Darwin Awards”

    And what’s our solution to this mess we helped create?

    Bomb ’em All!

    You know, in case Darwin needs a fucken hand I guess.

  30. Walrus permalink
    September 4, 2015 12:43 pm

    “………and western countries fostering the environment for an entity like ISIS to thrive”

    Then you link to “a centuries-old religious conflict”

    Make up your fucking mind !

  31. Walrus permalink
    September 4, 2015 12:44 pm

    “That’s a pig ignorant comment if ever there was one.”

    Yeah and like stating we should have complete freedom of movement is sensible.

    What BS !

  32. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 12:50 pm

    Don’t those on lower incomes work hard too?
    Why is it assumed that only the wealthy [gained vastly through inheritance] work hard, have merit and are deserving of government support?

    Joe Hockey’s unscripted moments of truth reveal what the Government really thinks
    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/hockey-and-co-want-to-elevate-the-rich-and-crush-the-poor-20150902-gjdeul.html#ixzz3kjaGA0Ch

  33. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 12:51 pm

    Yeah and like stating we should have complete freedom of movement is sensible.
    What BS !

    About as sensible as stating that we should have complete freedom of trade.

  34. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 12:52 pm

    Make up your fucking mind !

    Try reading AND comprehending

    “fostering the environment ”

    I’m not denying there is a centuries old problem being dealt with there.

    Saddam was a monster, but, as was argued, sometimes, a monster is all that keeps worst at bay.

    WE removed that monster, and then a worst one surfaced. Therefore WE are as responsible for that as is the centuries old conflict.

    The Syrian people fleeing are not. They are the victims. And you are simply further victimizing them with your pathetic insinuations.

  35. Walrus permalink
    September 4, 2015 1:02 pm

    “About as sensible as stating that we should have complete freedom of trade.”

    Up go the Trade Barriers under the Loony Left

  36. Walrus permalink
    September 4, 2015 1:04 pm

    “The Syrian people fleeing are not. ”

    Please feel free to Link the evidence that every single last one of them is Syrian or STFU

  37. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 1:04 pm

    Comment: The war photo no one would publish
    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/10/02/comment-war-photo-no-one-would-publish

    “If we’re big enough to fight a war, we should be big enough to look at it.”


    “He was fighting to save his life to the very end, till he was completely burned up,” Jarecke says of the man he photographed. “He was trying to get out of that truck.”

  38. September 4, 2015 1:16 pm

    I see that Walrus also comments over at Bolt’s blog…

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  39. September 4, 2015 1:22 pm

    Who in his right mind discusses “redeeming traits of the Nazis” – https://newmatilda.com/2015/09/04/shock-jock-therapy-unacknowledged-public-service-alan-jones-and-ray-hadley#sthash.dlLQoyjb.dpuf

  40. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 1:23 pm

    Please feel free to Link the evidence that every single last one of them is Syrian

    You really are going for the record of most pig ignorant comments in one thread, aren’t you.

    Poor old nil’s been left in the dust

  41. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 1:31 pm

    Who in his right mind

    That’s the pertinent bit right there reb 😉

  42. September 4, 2015 1:33 pm

    lol 🙂

  43. September 4, 2015 1:34 pm

    Barnaby Joyce feels pity for accountants…

    We all do.

    “As an accountant myself, when you see an accountant walking across the border into Hungary from Syria when his life has been destroyed I feel a sense of empathy for him.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/04/barnaby-joyce-calls-for-more-syrian-refugees-to-be-resettled-in-australia

  44. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 1:39 pm

    and by the way, I don’t like the decline of facts and rise of opinion much, either

    This is the article massola reckons is riddled with facts.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/bill-shortens-authority-at-stake-over-china-fta/story-e6frg6zo-1227511536000

    Except, as is usual over there, most of the pertinent facts have again been left out. But, as I read it, it struck me how much like hte AGW denial stories ran this is.

    For weeks, they have denied the Unions claims. Now, they have moved onto the “but it won’t be that many” argument’.

    But, even if that argument is to believed (and they are basing that on someone who “guesses” it won’t be much. http://insidestory.org.au/big-agreement-small-numbers ) that is hardly the point.

    As has been pointed out elsewhere, it is simply WorkChoices by stealth

    Presenting a couple of carefully selected “facts”, in the midst of a highly political dig at Shorten with the accompanying reference to their previous beatup about all other Labor people being right behind the FTA as it is and Shorten vehemently opposed to any dealing with the Chinese threat, is hardly a redeeming article for the lolstralian. In fact, it simply highlights their complete inability to write anything without their ideological blinkers nailed on.

  45. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 1:42 pm

  46. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 1:45 pm

    Barnaby Joyce feels pity for accountants…

    Yes, but we need proof that they are ALL accountants first!

  47. September 4, 2015 1:49 pm

    A truth bomb, for Neil…

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  48. Walrus permalink
    September 4, 2015 1:58 pm

    “You really are going for the record ……………….”

    LOL……………….I think if you scroll up you’ll find someone called TomROLL made the pig ignorant statement that they are all Syrians.

    Just look for the idiot that originally stated this bit ………………………..“The Syrian people fleeing are not. ”

    I’ll just wait here for that Link that I’m sure you’ll have handy being the expert Troll that you are

  49. Walrus permalink
    September 4, 2015 2:05 pm

    “He was fighting to save his life to the very end, till he was completely burned up,” Jarecke says of the man he photographed. “He was trying to get out of that truck.”

    Firstly it was a tank not a truck.

    It is very unlikely that Jarecke was even there at the time of this guy’s death so the commentary is just plain Bullshit.

    That photo was taken during the 1991 War. Very few survived the Highway of Death when Saddams forces were trapped during the retreat.

    A western photo journalist would be unlikely to be with an Iraqi tank column.

    Usual Lefty lies…………………………………….AGAIN !

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=burnt+man+tank+iraq&view=detailv2&&id=5A0BF8A45A754DEFE620A610082068928F083991&selectedIndex=0&ccid=Yb3gTPbK&simid=607993101514376788&thid=OIP.M61bde04cf6ca4e4d1bb0141d34a4e676o0&ajaxhist=0

  50. Walrus permalink
    September 4, 2015 2:07 pm

    The Highway of Death

  51. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 2:13 pm

  52. TB Queensland permalink
    September 4, 2015 2:22 pm

    Tanks don’t have windscreen wipers … have a good look … as for the other comments WGAFF … similar images come out od every war we’ve been involved in …

    The only one I can make a case for is WWII … even E. Timor was a gas grab by Howard …

    And no-one tries to “justify” VN anymore … thank christ … another waste …

  53. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 2:30 pm

    …It is very unlikely that Jarecke was even there at the time of this guy’s death so the commentary is just plain Bullshit.
    That photo was taken during the 1991 War. Very few survived the Highway of Death when Saddams forces were trapped during the retreat.
    A western photo journalist would be unlikely to be with an Iraqi tank column.

    Said with such authority, you were obviously there yourself?
    So easy to discount and deny anything that doesn’t fit the blinkered world view.

    I call BS on your ‘war expert’ dribble. You wouldn’t have a clue about the event.

    The witness must be lying too.

    “…Jarecke sat in the truck, alone with Patrick Hermanson, a public affairs officer. He moved to get out of the vehicle with his cameras…

    …More than two decades later, Hermanson notes that Jarecke’s resulting picture was “pretty special.” He doesn’t need to see the photograph to resurrect the scene in his mind. “It’s seared into my memory,” he says, “as if it happened yesterday…”

    What else didn’t happen hitler? the nazis? hiroshima?

  54. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 2:42 pm

    Nope, nope, nope, it never happened

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4528745.stm

    And since then, it’s an image that has a life of its own. It’s been published hundreds of times, you can find all over the internet, it just keeps going and it’s published as much today as it ever has been.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/the-war-photo-no-one-would-publish/375762/
    On February 28, 1991, Kenneth Jarecke stood in front of the charred man, parked amid the carbonized bodies of his fellow soldiers, and photographed him.

  55. September 4, 2015 3:10 pm

    Just for YoM…

    Turnbull “clueless” on NBN says Paul Budde….

    http://delimiter.com.au/2015/08/27/turnbull-has-no-clue-what-he-is-doing-says-paul-budde/

  56. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 3:10 pm

    I’ll just wait here for that Link

    If you don’t think that the majority of the people fleeing Syria are Syrian, you are truly a lost cause. I’ve never said every last one was. Asking for a link like that is patently stupid. Something you seem to have become quite the expert at lately.

    Meanwhile, as murodors minions continue to lie to us, we continue to exhibit to the world everything that we should be ashamed of.

    In recent years, Australia’s Refugee and Humanitarian Program peaked at 20,015 places in 2012-13 but was cut back by 6,250 places in 2013.

    http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/latest/how-generous-is-australias-response-to-refugees

  57. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 4, 2015 3:29 pm

    ouch [from reb’s link]

    …However, it’s important to realise that the Coalition’s MTM model was never truly a technical solution aimed at meeting Australia’s future broadband needs through using the most appropriate technology and the best commercial model.

    The current MTM-based NBN project is a creature of politics, and was aimed squarely at solving the political problem that the Abbott Government could not wholly abandon the NBN nor deliver it in the form that Labor envisioned. It is for political reasons that Malcolm Turnbull took Australia down this path. The Coalition needed an alternative NBN vision, and the Minister is delivering it, barnacles and all.

    In short, Minister Turnbull is taking Australia down this path deliberately, rather than in ignorance…

    ridiculous waste of money for a useless product, the libs should be condemned.

  58. TB Queensland permalink
    September 4, 2015 3:45 pm

    … ridiculous waste of money for a useless product, the libs should be condemned.

    I do keep trying, KL … 🙂

  59. TB Queensland permalink
    September 4, 2015 4:18 pm

    … the Minister said, the NBN company’s cost accounting systems were “frankly, so poor”, that they did not know how much it was costing to connect premises with fibre.

    But they argued they did at the time … how?

    However, the estimates contained in the new NBN Corporate Plan significantly varied from the NBN Strategic Review, published in December 2013 under Minister Turnbull’s stewardship of the NBN. The compilation of the report was led by JB Rousselot, who has prior connections to the Minister and was appointed under Minister Turnbull’s watch.

    More Liberal cronyism …

    “It becomes clear that this government didn’t have a clue about its proposed ‘cheaper and faster option’. It was nothing more than political rhetoric.”

    But, but but!

    In my opinion he simply didn’t have a clue what he was doing.”

    And quite a few others’ opinions!

    What we learnt today is that it will cost a lot more and Australians will get a lot less.”

    Sounds like everything the Abbott government touches … except ADF wages and conditions and welfare for the needy …

    Can they do anything positive for this country?

    It’s also true that not all of these problems can be laid at the Coalition’s door. Many of the issues do have their roots in Labor’s stewardship of the NBN. Both sides of politics have responsibility for the NBN — as a project which extends into multiple Governments.

    Wrong … by the time Abbott and Turnbull took over the roll out was happening faster than now and with FTTH … not a hotch potch of technologies … one of which (copper) is highly unsuitable and will cost far more in maintenance than fibre optic cable over time … this infrastructure should be designed and in place when our great great g/kids are still around ..

    However, it’s important to realise that the Coalition’s MTM model was never truly a technical solution aimed at meeting Australia’s future broadband needs through using the most appropriate technology and the best commercial model.

    And that is the crux of the matter!

  60. Tom R permalink
    September 4, 2015 5:22 pm

    We as a nation are bankrupt

  61. TB Queensland permalink
    September 4, 2015 7:19 pm

    I know why JHockey isn’t worried* … but the rest of us should be … and I can only guess why the video is no longer available … this bloke is a dill of the highest order … I thought Swan was a limpet … but this bloke is the mine about to explode!

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-dollar-dips-again-to-a-fresh-six-year-low-but-joe-hockey-isnt-too-worried/story-fnu2pwk8-1227513267534

    *he will have money coming in from his pollie perqs and his missus … when we are all in the quicksand …

  62. TB Queensland permalink
    September 4, 2015 7:22 pm

    “””””We as a nation are bankrupt”””””

    In so many ways … and it only took two years … astofknstounding©!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Anyone else using Windows 10 yet?

  63. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 5, 2015 12:45 am

    Anyone else using Windows 10 yet?

    You just reminded me TB – you like?

    Rebekah Brooks’ ex-security boss vows to ‘blow whistle’
    Mark Hanna says he is disgusted Brooks has been re-employed and will reveal details of time at Murdoch papers
    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/04/rebekah-brooks-ex-security-boss-vows-to-blow-whistle

    …“I am now standing up against those that sit back and treat us all with contempt – the Murdochs and Brooks of the world,” Hanna said in a two-minute video released on Friday.

    Hanna, who is unemployed and living on benefits, said the decision by Murdoch to reinstate Brooks four years after the phone-hacking allegations and the closure of News of the World had infuriated him and many others…

    …“To me, her previous director of group security, this is Murdoch’s middle finger being shoved right in my face after standing trial with her, and others, in what was classed as the trial of the century during which it was widely accepted that I should never have been involved.”…

    Do you think he will?

  64. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 5, 2015 12:53 am

  65. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 5, 2015 12:58 am

  66. September 5, 2015 1:55 am

    bbc”””The jury has previously seen CCTV footage which the prosecution says shows a sequence of events, orchestrated by Mr Brooks, in which the bags are hidden, picked up and then hidden again by Mr Hanna and other News International security staff.”””’

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-25813319

    #Let`s just see what this `hanna` critter comes-up armchair, maybe this is just a ploy to get rupert/rebekah to offer him some much needed cash, or maybe hanna `has` been mistreated, but does he really have the goods.? on them that he can use without showing hanna actually `did` pervert the course of justice. lt will be interesting to see if anything beyond `smoke-blowing` comes from this. #hope.so:-)

  67. September 5, 2015 2:02 am

    doh, belongs here

    Well said `Laura Tharion`

    igor””It is a sign that we humans have not learned anything””#agree

    #it is quite sickening that `our` invasion results in children having to flee by boat to try and survive us drone-bombing them, but if we catch them we stick them in a gulag.

    #ditto armchair, the war horrors of all types should be shown to the public, l`ve never agreed with teh-usa led blanket media black-outs of coffins or collateral, nor having `embedded-media` which gives military `editorial-control` of reporting. Yes, our drongos are doing it too.

  68. TB Queensland permalink
    September 5, 2015 9:55 am

    KL,

    Windows 10. Apart from a couple of tiny glitches with drivers all seems to have transformed well … it is a flat 2D GUI (funny after all the effort to get a 3D effect over the years) … but that keeps the size down and the speed a little faster … I’m still using IE11 Edge annoys me because you can’t pin the Favourites bar to the left side – it sits stubbornly to the right … and that’s unnatural because we read from left to right … anyhoo …

    The title are bars are either white or white … but I have used Winaero Tweaker on Win 7 for a while and it works with Win 10 so you can actually colour the bars and if like me you hate the “shortcut arrows” you can get rid of them too!

    The Minister’s computer had the “biggest” problem … she play one game Jewel Quest III and it will not connect to the server anymore … I’m still hunting for a fix … big kudos if I can crack that!

    I got a nice little surprise with my midi/karaoke program vanBascoes when it minimised … Win 7 would not allow that at all … I had to close it down, do whatever I wanted to do and then re-open it.

    Only been ‘playing for four days … but seems OK … even the upgrade was very easy …

    Overall a smooth transition – and I was hesitant – having lived and suffered through every Windows iteration since Windows for Workgroups 3.1

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    l`ve never agreed with teh-usa led blanket media black-outs of coffins or collateral, nor having `embedded-media` which gives military `editorial-control` of reporting. Yes, our drongos are doing it too.

    Learned behaviour from the American War (as its referred in country) in Vietnam 1962 – 1972 … daily news on TV of US casualties did a lot of damage to the allied war effort … another civil war we should have left alone … and lost.

  69. TB Queensland permalink
    September 5, 2015 3:26 pm

    And in a case of perfect timing for the party, Tasmanian police announced on Saturday they would not be investigating former state Liberal director Damien Mantach for his use of a company credit card.

    Mr Mantach repaid almost $48,000 to the state branch before he left Tasmania in 2008 and Labor leader Bryan Green last week referred the matter to police, suspicious of criminal activity.

    But investigators said that without a complaint from a victim, there was no case.
    Premier Will Hodgman said the party has maintained all along there was no criminal wrongdoing in the matter and said Mr Green should have sought better legal advice.
    Mr Hodgman is due to address the conference on Sunday.

    So police need a complaint from someone to investigate a theft or robbery?

    And its OK if you nick something and then give it back?

    I do recall being told by an ex-copper that they used to charge joy-riders who brought back the car to the owners with stealing – fuel …

    Mmmmm …

  70. September 5, 2015 3:28 pm

    TB””daily news on TV of US casualties did a lot of damage to the allied war effort””

    #Here`s a little game you can play.

    #phrase.1””we don`t/can`t/won`t discuss””

    #Notice how often politicians use `military-like-jargon` to give non-answers to embedded-media questions now-a-days.? Politicians often use phase.1 followed by `on-water matters`, `operational-tactics`, or `what goes on in cabinet`, to name just a few.

    #When l watch the so-called `news` or interviews, and l hear this type of military-jargon non-answer, l put a cross(X) on a scrap of paper, but that`s only part-1 of the game.

    #Part-2 of the game is putting a `tick` on the paper when the so-called `reporter` or interviewer CHALLENGES the bullshit answer they are given.

    #lf you choose to play too, you will be quite surprised how many `crosses` you make during the news-hour, and how very few `ticks` you make.

    #Yes, `our` teabags can play too, my abc is just as guilty.

    +

    TB””another civil war we should have left alone .. and lost””#agree

    #they seem to have mastered the art of `un-learning` tho:-)

  71. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 5, 2015 4:54 pm

    Only been ‘playing for four days … but seems OK … even the upgrade was very easy …

    Thought we’d u/grade my laptop to win 10 on the strength of your r/v. I was cursing you when I lost all audio but did manage to get required downloads through the dell website and now have sound again. Not sure if it boots up faster than previously though, seems about the same to me.
    Yeah, that seems to be the only issue [so far- it’s only been running a couple of hours!].

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/when-the-australian-border-force-goes-overboard-youre-left-with-operation-overkill-20150903-gje6lg.html#ixzz3kqHa2tBc

    ….On her morning drive to work through the inner-west Sydney suburb of Stanmore on Wednesday morning, Sarah* was surprised when police stopped her for a random breath test. But when the officer saw her UK driver’s licence, his actions left her dumbfounded.
    “He asked to see her visa – but we don’t have a paper visa, its electronic,” said her boyfriend, Mark*, who, together with Sarah, is in Australia on a skilled work visa.
    “Regardless, this isn’t 1940s Nazi Germany and if one did exist, we still wouldn’t be carrying our visa papers around with us.”

    Sarah said the police officer was adamant: she could not leave until her visa status was confirmed…

    …”Australia is feeling like it’s becoming ever more closed to the outside world. The powers that be seem to have the attitude that this country is theirs and absolutely no one else is allowed to benefit from it.”…

    Inside Border Force’s power:
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/immigration/2015/09/05/inside-border-forces-power/14413752002322

    …Back during the 2010 election, policy briefs were written for the new government – whoever it might be. The brief from Immigration included the suggestion that Customs be amalgamated into the department. The deputy secretary, Bob Correll, was the strongest advocate for a pseudo-militarisation of the department’s functions, and while the advice was dropped, Correll would ensure it became reality when he became Scott Morrison’s chief of staff in 2013. Which is also when executives began leaving the department – the thought of implementing Correll’s ideology was unthinkable…

  72. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 5, 2015 5:03 pm

    So police need a complaint from someone to investigate a theft or robbery?

    Except if you are Bronnie Bishop, they are only interested in complaints if they come from the liberal party.

    And its OK if you nick something and then give it back?

    Doesn’t work like that for social security cheats, they pay it back and still get jail time.

  73. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 5, 2015 5:24 pm

    Some snippets of interest in these articles too.

    More cracks in Abbott’s cabinet:
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2015/09/05/more-cracks-abbotts-cabinet/14413752002339

    Secret freeze on refugee citizenship processes:
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/immigration/2015/09/05/secret-freeze-refugee-citizenship-processes/14413752002323

  74. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 6, 2015 11:26 am

    I think we should offer to take a huge number of Syrian refugees.

    There is no legitimate or practical reason for us not to accept (say) 75,000. This intake of people genuinely fleeing a dreadful war between forces competing in cruelty would cause a range of changes-

    • It would alleviate the hardship facing 75,000 people
    • The political dynamics around the “turn the boats back” policy would change
    • It would force racist “anti everyone that isn’t like us” to declare themselves (as opposed to those that are just opposed to planned arrivals)
    • It would help rebuild Australia’s reputation as a humanitarian and tolerant nation

    Only the “anti everyone that isn’t like us brigade” would oppose taking a huge number of Syrian refugees
    ——
    …and for the information of TB and KL, I had a delightful bottle of 2006 Heathcote Shiraz last night.

  75. TB Queensland permalink
    September 6, 2015 4:56 pm

    …and for the information of TB and KL, I had a delightful bottle of 2006 Heathcote Shiraz last night.

    So glad your enjoying your life, ToM …. and extremely nice to see the humanitarian person revived again … out of the Abbott swamp …

    Really lovely … seriously …

  76. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 6, 2015 5:37 pm

    your

    I think you mean “you’re”

    But thanks TB (I think)

  77. TB Queensland permalink
    September 6, 2015 6:01 pm

    Did I say seriously, ToM … surely by now you know that I say what I mean … even if we disagree …

    But I was educated (by a very knowledgable mentor) in the concept that nothing happens (in business and government) by coincidence …

    SO HOW DID WE GET FROM WELCOMING TO HOSTILE?

    That’s a long and complex story. But a really interesting recent work goes a fair way towards explaining it.

    Ben Doherty is an Australian reporter who just spent three months at Oxford University penning a lengthy but very readable essay which you can access here.

    In it, he charts the changing language used in Australia’s debate over asylum seekers. As our language has changed, so has the way we think about asylum seekers.

    Example. The moment we call an asylum seeker an “illegal” rather than a refugee, we perceive them as someone opportunistic, criminal even, rather than a victim of war or other misfortune whose life has been uprooted through no fault of their own.

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/australia-increasingly-out-of-step-on-refugees-is-it-time-to-change/story-fnixwvgh-1227514315864

    While I welcome the change of heart of you and the Abbott Government … I have always thought that ANTHONY SHARWOOD is a Rupert mouthpiece …

    And for the last few weeks the Abbott Government has been in election “mode” …

    Pardon me for being (my usual) cynical self but the Save the Syrians rhetoric (as I wait for serious behaviour – ie ACTION) … as an Australian – is very much appreciated …

    Has Rupe suddenly discovered the truth about refugees and asylum seekers? (Mmmm) Has the government said FUCK we got it wrong? (Mmmm ) Is there an ELECTION around the corner?

  78. TB Queensland permalink
    September 6, 2015 6:47 pm

    WHO PUT ANDREW ROBB IN CHARGE?

    The trade minister, Andrew Robb, has argued it would be difficult to introduce legislation to force all businesses to look for Australian workers before hiring skilled foreign workers because the existing rules exempt the vast majority of people granted section 457 visas.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/06/andrew-robb-457-visa-exemption-makes-it-hard-to-protect-local-jobs-in-china-fta

    This bloke is a fkn moron of the highest order! Would you employ him? ‘Cause he won’t employ you! Or you’re kids …

    And I’m sick of the aggressive, racist, xenophobic innuendo from a government that seems to be more and more fascist at every turn …

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/when-the-australian-border-force-goes-overboard-youre-left-with-operation-overkill-20150903-gje6lg.html

  79. TB Queensland permalink
    September 6, 2015 6:48 pm

    Positive reinforcement … ToM?

  80. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 6, 2015 6:57 pm

    SO HOW DID WE GET FROM WELCOMING TO HOSTILE?

    Is this correct? If this guy is talking about the Fraser govt we took 55,000 Vietnamese refugees in 8 years and the vast bulk were flown in. Very few came by boat. That works out at approx 7,000 refugees/year under Fraser. Not that welcoming.

  81. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 6, 2015 7:15 pm

    …and for the information of TB and KL, I had a delightful bottle of 2006 Heathcote Shiraz last night.

    onya tomM! 🙂

    Agree with taking lots more refugees, I’ll remain sceptical of why and how the abbott govt are doing it. I’ll wait to see how it unfolds before I lavish praise. When other nations have been saying we’re inhumane for some time and plead with us to do more and when mike baird shows greater conservative leadership than abbott has ever done. Does abbott want to be seen as the white knight now that the rest of the world are opening their arms and hearts to such desperate people? I also note that christian refugees are suggested to be a higher priority for australia [barnaby joyce].

    Can we be bombing them at the same time as saving them?

  82. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 6, 2015 7:33 pm

    I also note that abbott does not plan to increase the overall intake of asylum seekers, so if we help syrian AS, it comes at a cost to others.

    Something I’ve been saying for years. We attack the worker’s unions while the big end of town gets off scot free with corruption and bribery.

    Leading lawyers call for overhaul of Australia’s foreign bribery laws:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-06/lawyers-call-for-changes-to-foreign-bribery-laws-enforcement/6751160

    …In a damning submission to the Senate, the International Bar Association (IBA) described Australia’s foreign bribery laws as ineffective and our record of enforcement “woeful”…

    …”The system is not working. Unless people go to jail, unless people see imprisonment as the real ultimate penalty, there will be no behavioural change,” Mr Wyld said…

    …Unlike the US, Australia has no liability on parent companies for the conduct of subsidiaries or intermediaries.

    “If you want your company to pay bribes, just set up a subsidiary and ensure whatever structure you use is isolated, in terms of effective management from the parent company,” Mr Wyld said…

    Really border force?

    Border Force to spend $15,000 on soft toys as ‘corporate gifts’
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-06/border-force-to-spend-thousands-on-soft-toys-as-corporate-gifts/6753676

  83. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 6, 2015 7:52 pm

    Richard DiNatale did well on the Bolt show, I’ll have no trouble at all voting for the Greens. Ran rings around a Bolt who really wasn’t up to the task when he couldn’t distort and deny the facts.

  84. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 6, 2015 8:37 pm

    SO HOW DID WE GET FROM WELCOMING TO HOSTILE?

    By the way these are the numbers of boat people under Fraser

    1976 – 111

    1977 – 868

    1978 – 746

    1979 – 304

    1980 – 0

    1981 – 30

    1982 – 0

    The vast bulk of the 55,000 Vietnamese refugees we took under Fraser were flown in. Fraser never had to face the numbers of boat people that Howard or Rudd/Gillard were faced with. Who knows that Fraser would have done faced with the same boat numbers.

  85. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 6, 2015 9:50 pm

    I find all the references to Fraser (the “humanitarian”) particularly irksome. Fraser was a narcissist, always self centred and destructively ambitious.

    I don’t believe his support for the intake of Vietnamese was motivated by a shred of humanitarianism, Fraser just saw the South Vietnamese anti communists as his natural constituency. He thought he was importing massive numbers of future conservative voters.

    A dishonest C**T.

  86. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 6, 2015 10:17 pm

    SO HOW DID WE GET FROM WELCOMING TO HOSTILE?

    I am assuming that the above comment is referring to Fraser. 55,000 Vietnamese refugees over 7 years is not a huge number. I don’t think we were anymore welcoming in the late 1970’s than we are now.

    But i have seen comments that Germany is thinking of taking 800,000 Syrians. now that would be impressive.

  87. September 6, 2015 10:18 pm

    Haha…unsurprisingly, Herr Andrew begs to differ.

  88. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 9:44 am

    HERESY!

    Don’t waste any time worrying about it: Australia is heading into a recession. There are several indicators pointing in this direction, but what will guarantee the slide into the economic doldrums will be the fallout from the Abbott government’s first policy “initiative”.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/automotive-transformation-scheme-cancellation-may-drive-the-economy-over-the-edge-20150904-gjfdsg#ixzz3l0Nu18LM
    Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

  89. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 7, 2015 9:56 am

    TomR

    That link shows you tell falsehoods. From the link

    Given that the maximum assistance available under the ATS was $6.6 billion over 10 years to 2020, or $660 million each year, it is clear the car industry repays the government’s investment each year, twofold.

    So funding was not stopped as i have seen stated many times. It was there until 2020. The only question should be was should the funding be increased. Is it worth doubling the subsidies to maybe save the car industry? Given that local sales crashed to only 10% of the market under Rudd/Gillard the question is debatable.

  90. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 10:05 am

    So funding was not stopped

    A quick Engleesh lesson fer ya nil. note the bolded bit 😉

    the ATS was $6.6 billion

    And, as the author notes, the real impact of this is yet to be felt. No doubt, yabot and co hoping like hell it will be after they are booted.

  91. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 10:13 am

  92. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 7, 2015 10:48 am

    A quick Engleesh lesson fer ya nil. note the bolded bit

    Get stuffed. There was $6.6B legislated for 10 years. That is $660M/year. To remove that money would take an act of Parliament.

    The only question is should the subsidy be doubled to save the industry. The Coalition obviously thought it was not worth the extra money.

    But this topic shows why i never trust an ALP supporter. I saw it mentioned many times that Hockey stopped the funding completely. But that was a lie. There was $660M/year until 2020 as long as they continued to make cars.

  93. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 7, 2015 10:49 am

    Fascinating Tom R.

    That’s the usual quality rebuttal I’d expect from you and the CFMEU.

    Any comment on the fact that CFMEU offered Boral $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ MILLIONS & MILLIONS of member’s cash to settle?

  94. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 11:14 am

    Any comment on the fact that CFMEU offered Boral

    Is that this one?

  95. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 11:15 am

    I saw it mentioned many times that Hockey stopped the funding completely.

    You see lots of things, that doesn’t make them real. I think it has moire to do with your eye sight 😉

  96. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 7, 2015 11:31 am

    You see lots of things, that doesn’t make them real. I think it has moire to do with your eye sight

    Well here is one example by Richard Denniss

    https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2015/july/1435672800/richard-denniss/clowns-and-treasurers

    So far the policies of the Abbott government have made the impacts of the mining bust worse, not better. Rather than help the manufacturing industry recover as the exchange rate finally began to fall, it decided that the end of the mining boom was the right time to end all assistance to the car industry. Ford and Holden will soon leave Australia once and for all.

    End all assistance? Assistance was there until 2020. Notice how Richard Denniss lays the blame for Ford leaving on Abbott. Ford left under Rudd/Gillard. Abbott was in Opposition when Ford left.

    Like i said. I will never trust an ALP supporter on anything. I have seen too many falsehoods.

  97. TB Queensland permalink
    September 7, 2015 11:38 am

    TR, from your link above … this is the most compelling argument I’ve yet seen … why has it taken TWO years ?

    Assuming those 45,500 full-time automotive workers in the carmakers and the Tier One companies earn the average manufacturing wage of $69,000, they would pay $642 million a year in tax. If the 200,000 indirect employees in Tiers Two and Three were used, say, 25 per cent of the time on automotive projects, they would pay $705 million in tax, making a total of $1.35 billion in tax receipts from automotive manufacturing workers in a single year.

    Given that the maximum assistance available under the ATS was $6.6 billion over 10 years to 2020, or $660 million each year, it is clear the car industry repays the government’s investment each year, twofold. That’s a pretty good return on any investment, and one unlikely to be emulated by Truss’s agricultural sector.

  98. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 11:38 am

    End all assistance? Assistance was there until 2020

    Yes, but the treasurer had telegraphed his desire nil. That is the point you continually want to avoid. Holden (and Toyota) were being told “No Soup For You” by hockey and robb. In fact, they had done everything BUT pass the legislation. Their intent was clear.

  99. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 7, 2015 11:40 am

    1. Did CFMEU offer to pay Boral MILLIONS & MILLIONS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?

    2. Has Boral withdrawn its claim against the CFMEU?

    3. Do you support secondary boycotts?

    You really need to stop the spruiking the CFMEU crap and deal with actual facts from time to time.

  100. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 11:44 am

    why has it taken TWO years ?

    Is it because you keep scrolling me? 😉

  101. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 7, 2015 11:52 am

    Yes, but the treasurer had telegraphed his desire nil. That is the point you continually want to avoid.

    I am not avoiding anything. Like all ALP supporters you are making stuff up, telling falsehoods, twisting the truth.

    Holden and Toyota knew exactly where they stood. No more funding other than what was promised till 2020. And Hockey made that clear.

    Lying is in the DNA of all Labor supporters.

  102. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 12:43 pm

    You really need to stop the spruiking the CFMEU crap and deal with actual facts from time to time.

    So, Boral hasn’t agreed to meet “substantial” union legal costs ?

    Holden and Toyota knew exactly where they stood.

    Exactly, which is why they left. If Labor were in power, the outcome could/would have been different.

    Own the loss, cos hockey etal played for it.

  103. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 7, 2015 12:50 pm

    So they union wanted to cough up $$$$$$$$$ to settle a secondary boycott claim.

    Now because they seek to amend their claim, you and your CFMEU mates think this is news!

  104. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 7, 2015 12:51 pm

    Own the loss, cos hockey etal played for it.

    I blame Labor. Ford left under Rudd/Gillard and nothing was going to stop Holden/Toyota leaving with only 10% of local sales.

    Telling falsehoods only causes more damage and helps nobody. The ALP is the party of destruction. It trashes everything it touches.

  105. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 1:03 pm

    Now because they seek to amend their claim, you and your CFMEU mates think this is news!

    And you think it isn’t?

    I blame Labor.

    How Suprisement

  106. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 7, 2015 1:15 pm

    The news is that the CFMEU believed their own conduct was such that they are willing to cough up HUGE $$$$$$ of their member’s cash.

    Coughing up $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Millions and Millions is news as well as scandalous.

  107. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 1:19 pm

    Coughing up

    From my reading, it looks to be Boral doing the coughing at the moment 😉

    #justsayin

  108. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 7, 2015 1:25 pm

    So Boral want to amend their claim, and covers the cost of legal bills to ensure this occurs. It is intent on making sure it effectively holds the CFMEU to account.

    But the CFMEU has already offered to cough up MILLONS because of the outrageous conduct.

    They’re the facts, and it’s no use you trying to polish that turd.

  109. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 1:35 pm

    So Boral want to amend their claim

    Because their original was frivolous?

    But the CFMEU has already offered to cough up MILLONS because of the outrageous conduct.

    They’ve coughed up untold dollars for a political witch hunt too. Protecting workers rights isn’t cheap when you have the finances of the country ranged against you.

    The ACTU is currently giving evidence on the China FTA before the treaties committee. Committee chair, Liberal Wyatt Roy wants to know whether the ACTU would be satisfied if the committee can demonstrate there is mandatory labour market testing in the agreement.

    ACTU assistant secretary Scott Connolly.

    We’d welcome it.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2015/sep/07/peter-dutton-heads-to-geneva-for-talks-on-syrian-refugee-crisis-politics-live?CMP=share_btn_tw#block-55ecdf87e4b0a6f7171527c1

  110. TB Queensland permalink
    September 7, 2015 2:03 pm

    “””” Committee chair, Liberal Wyatt Roy “”””

    A politician at 20 and this is his second term … and what a wonderful background he has to be Chair of a Committee for the biggest FTA this country has been involved in so far …

    Roy was raised on a strawberry farm north of Brisbane … Roy attended Matthew Flinders Anglican College on the Sunshine Coast, and studied at Melbourne’s La Trobe University before returning to his home state to study political science and international relations at the University of Queensland. He has not completed a tertiary qualification.[3]

    My bold … shakes head … astofknstounding!

  111. September 7, 2015 2:09 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  112. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 2:14 pm

    The evil Death Cult wreaking havoc across the Middle East has absolutely no regard for human life, and its victims should under no circumstances try to escape on a boat, leaked Government talking points confirmed today.

    “Thank goodness we’re doing everything we can to stop this Death Cult and to stop people fleeing this Death Cult,” Prime Minister Tony Abbott said today.

    Mr Abbott appealed directly to Syrians under threat from the Death Cult. “Let me remind anyone considering running from this brutal, medieval, blood-thirsty, ruthless, callous Death Cult to think very carefully before doing anything silly. Like getting on a maritime vessel to escape it”.

    Beyond satire

  113. Tom R permalink
    September 7, 2015 2:32 pm

    CHAFTA, nothing to see here

    A plan by a Chinese-owned dairy in Gippsland to import workers has been condemned by federal opposition and union figures.

    Newly exposed details that Ningbo Dairy, which trades in Australia as YoYou, was actively recruiting dairy farm workers two years ago threaten to stoke fears over the Chinese-Australian Free Trade Agreement.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/unions-lash-chinese-dairy-investors-as-plans-to-import-workers-exposed-20150903-gje5rm.html#ixzz3l1YGbH6K
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

  114. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 7, 2015 2:52 pm

    So Xenephon has put some sparklers in a huge turd to celebrate the 2nd anniversary of the government!

    That seems fair.

  115. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 7, 2015 3:22 pm

    So Xenephon has put some sparklers in a huge turd to celebrate the 2nd anniversary of the government!

    The Coalition has not trashed anything yet. They are having trouble getting the budget back to surplus but that may not be possible without massive spending cuts which are politically impossible.

    Most of our current problems can be traced to the Rudd/Gillard govt and the people who voted for them

  116. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 7, 2015 9:09 pm

  117. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 7, 2015 9:17 pm

  118. September 7, 2015 10:28 pm

    tw”””New Eng back in the taken for granted seats list, Tony Windsor (@TonyHWindsor) September 6, 2015”””

    #Watch-out bananasby, here comes Windsor:-)

  119. September 7, 2015 10:48 pm

    tbs-quote”””making a total of $1.35 billion in tax receipts from automotive manufacturing workers in a single year”””

    #assuming the numbers are correct, here is another aspect, the auto-work-force pays their tax to govt, govt then turns around and hands-over 50-cents in the dollar to their employer/s, NOT spending it in other areas, where govt`s spend, roads, health, schools etc.

    #then you have to ask ya`self if this is `fair`, l`m pretty sure every`other` type of worker would prefer 50% of `their` tax-dollars were spend in employing themselves too, and not spent on say `off-shore-gulags`. Nurses and quacks would want their taxation spent on hospitals, teachers on schools, lawyers and judges on courts, prison-guards on prisons, adf/a staff on military misadventures and accountants on accounting.

    #l reckon `everybody` should be treated the same, even tho l know they aint, and if we all got 50% of our taxation in a `feed-back-loop`, how much more taxation would we `all` have to pay to cover everything we already have.?

  120. September 7, 2015 11:03 pm

    TB””’humanitarian person revived again .. out of the Abbott swamp .. Really lovely”””

    #nah, you know who is just happy to have a fresh batch of ignorant `slaves` to fill 7-11`s staffing requirements .. #2319

  121. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 8:44 am

    WHY WE NEED UNIONS AND MANAGEMENT WORKING TOGETHER!!

    A SENIOR federal official has confirmed a cruise line was advised to sack 60 Australian workers and hire foreigners to avoid the consequences of Government legislation.

    And an executive of the company has blasted Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss, who denied the advice was ever given.

    “I’m not trying to pick a fight with the Prime Minister or the Deputy PM,” Bill Milby, an executive with North Star Cruises, told a Senate inquiry last night.

    “But I don’t like being told I’m lying and I took offence at that … I take very strong offence at that.”

    At issue are proposed laws which would allow foreign shipping companies to work on Australian coastal services for half a year without paying Australian wages.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/pm-embarrassed-by-bureaucrats-sack-the-aussie-workers-advice-admission/story-fnkgde2y-1227517258644

    Well done Bill Milby!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    WHY WE NEED A PRIME MINISTER WHO CAN MAKE DECISIONS!

    THREE aid groups have called on the Abbott Gvernment to take in 30,000 Syrian refugees.

    The figure is substantially more than what others have called for — churches are pushing for 10,000 while the Greens want 20,000.

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the Government will increase the intake of Syrian refugees, although it won’t increase the overall 13,750 humanitarian places for this year.

    Labor has called on the Government to increase Australia’s refugee intake by 10,000 places as an emergency response to the unfolding humanitarian crisis in the Middle East.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/syrian-refugee-crisis-prime-minister-tony-abbott-under-pressure-as-europe-buckles-under-refugee-influx/story-fncynjr2-1227515809851

    Tony Abbott is a ditherer … its pretty obvious that he is just a puppet with people behind the scenes pulling the extreme right wing strings …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Sidebar:

    On Lateline last night I watched a segment on Queen Elizabeth II “record rule”… now I’m a dedicated Republican … but even I know that the Coronation was in 1953 … I even remember the street party!

    So why did Emma Alberici (and others I’ve noticed) insist on saying 1952?

    And I was so convinced I was right I found my old Coronation memento h/cover book my parents bought for me … the title? Elizabeth II 1953

    Fathers’ Day present from son & co? A mug bearing the inscription: MR ALWAYS RIGHT … oh, I wish …

  122. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 8:58 am

    Tony Abbott is a ditherer

    Well, from that article TB, it is quite clear he is also a habitual liar.

    An Australian cruise ship operator is demanding an apology from Prime Minister Tony Abbott and deputy PM Warren Truss for suggesting he is a liar.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/cruise-ship-boss-wants-apology-from-prime-minister-tony-abbott-over-lie-claim-20150907-gjh85i.html#ixzz3l62fKoIv
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

    I hope he makes a LOT of noise about this. Being called a liar by the PM is a pretty big deal one would have thought, especially considering yabot is the biggest liar of them all

  123. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 8:59 am

    l`m pretty sure every`other` type of worker would prefer 50% of `their` tax-dollars were spend in employing themselves too

    You mean like miners, farmers, accountants?

    Of course, IF (yes, it’s a big IF) you had bothered to read the article, that twofold return in subsidy investment is purely from direct return on wages. Perhaps you want to read this paragraph.

    Yet no one in the Abbott government seems to be aware of the calamity that is quickly approaching. It is going to be a body blow, not just to unemployment levels and welfare payments, but also to manufacturing output due to the loss of $29 billion in local value-adding. In addition, the trade deficit will expand because a further 150,000 vehicles will have to be imported to meet demand – and Australia will also lose the benefit of Toyota’s annual export of 90,000 vehicles to the Middle East.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/automotive-transformation-scheme-cancellation-may-drive-the-economy-over-the-edge-20150904-gjfdsg#ixzz3l5pJgQ9k
    Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

    I said it at the time, and I still say it, and I will say it in 2017 when the full force comes crashing down, this will be HUGE, unless there is something as big to replace it. What? I can’t think of anything like an automotive industry that has the “value add” in skills and training that the automotive industry does. Defense is not “value add”, they are value use. They use the skills developed in and around the automotive industry. As does mining, to an even larger degree. Which is why I found it so amazing that grubmints report glossed right over that, or, perhaps, deliberately dodged around it might be a better way of putting it.

  124. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:01 am

    heydon reckons he’s not biased, yet the entire witch hunt reeks of it.

    Lawyers working for the trade union royal commission personally gave union whistleblower-turned-fraudster Kathy Jackson detailed advance knowledge of the issues to be covered during her appearances at the inquiry, including tips on the topics to prepare and suggestions that she use her time on the stand to ­tackle media critics.

    Evidence of the friendly ­approach to Ms Jackson will doubtless be used by Labor to argue that the commission is ­institutionally biased given the less-accommodating treatment given to others, including Bill Shorten.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/trade-union-royal-commission-delivers-kathy-jackson-heads-up/story-fn59noo3-1227516994990

    Compare the libs favourite friends treatment from the turc compared with hte treatment received by the Unions themselves.

    The construction union has snubbed the royal commission into trade unions as it begins three weeks of hearings in Canberra on Monday.

    ……….
    A letter to the commission by the CFMEUs lawyers said the timetable, and failure to provide statements meant the union were concerned about being “ambushed”.

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/cfmeu-snubs-royal-commission-into-trade-unions-20150713-giath2.html#ixzz3l623Pt4W
    Follow us: @canberratimes on Twitter | CanberraTimes on Facebook

  125. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:20 am

    But Tom aRse you left this bit out:

    On the witness stand the next day — July 30, 2014 — Ms Jackson was enraged by what she saw as an unexpected attack by Mr Stoljar that ran against her expectations after conversations with commission staff.

    suggesting instead that they only ambush the CFMEU. You are a lying troll. No one should believe a word you say.

  126. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:24 am

    suggesting instead that they only ambush the CFMEU

    Or that she’s a forgetful dope.

    She gets a heads up, and even forgets that, the Unions get ambushed, not only in the turc, but in the papers with leaks coming out of turc.

    Just to highlight again

    “The commission spokeswoman yesterday defended the exceptional support given by the commission to Ms Jackson”

  127. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:27 am

    TB, Emma had probably read Wikipedia and decided that the date she acceded to the throne was the relevant date for her purposes than the date of Coronation ceremony the following year.

    Elizabeth ascended the thrones of these countries at age 25, upon the death of her father, King George VI, on 6 February 1952, and was proclaimed queen by her various privy and executive councils shortly afterwards. The coronation was delayed for more than a year because of the tradition that such a festival was inappropriate during the period of mourning that followed the death of the preceding sovereign.

  128. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:29 am

    “Or that she’s a forgetful dope.”

    No. You are the forgetful dope. Except the bit you forgot to quote was right there in the article you linked to. So the better terminology for you is lying turd.

  129. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:32 am

    Never expected to say this … “Well done Bill Heffernan!”

    Read the wriggling and weaseling here!

    Australian government bureaucrats have admitted to a senate committee they discussed options with cruise operator Bill Milby which could have involved him hiring foreign crew under a foreign flag.

    Milby, owners’ representative for North Star Cruises Australia (NSCA), has alleged bureaucrats from the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development advised him he sack his Australian crew, hire foreign staff and reflag his vessels to remain competitive under the Coalition’s changes to coastal shipping.

    Late on Monday, Milby named Judith Zielke, executive director, surface transport policy division and Michael Sutton, general manager, maritime and shipping branch as the officers who gave that advice. The department has previously denied such advice was provided to Milby.

    He appeared before a senate committee reviewing the bill and restated his allegations, first contained in a submission on the effect on Australian tourism operators of the proposed changes.

    Immediately afterwards, Zielke and Sutton appeared in front of the committee. Under sustained questioning from Heffernan, Zielke admitted she had discussed with Milby various options open to Australian ships under the shipping bill amendment.

    “So [Milby] was telling the truth when he said that you’d discussed with him the option of going offshore etc?” asked Heffernan.

    “Yes but I don’t believe I provided advice that he should take that option,” said Zielke.

    Heffernan asked: “Does that mean no one is telling a lie?”

    “I understand Mr Milby heard the conversation and reported what he understood the conversation to cover,” Zielke said.

    Turning to Sutton, Liberal senator Bill Heffernan, chair of the committee, said: “I don’t like what I just heard from the previous witness and I don’t give a rats who’s in government and who’s not and neither does this committee. Emphatically, are you going to deny the words [Milby] just said in the previous evidence?”

    Sutton said: “We discussed the options available to all shipping operators, one of them being to retain their current operations … one of them is the reflagging option.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/07/officials-admit-discussing-idea-that-cruise-operator-could-hire-foreign-crew

    Funny how The Guardian has a much more detailed coverage … hey?

  130. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:32 am

    Except the bit you forgot to quote was right there in the article you linked to.

    What, that she forgot she got warned about something, or, heaven forbid, they actually asked her something they hadn’t coached her on?

    Even if it was the latter, does that change the fact that she was coached?

  131. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:35 am

    Funny how The Guardian has a much more detailed coverage … hey?

    Much of ltdnews art is how they … limit their news 😉

  132. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:36 am

    ” she forgot she got warned “

    And your evidence for that lie is?????

  133. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:38 am

    Defense is not “value add”, they are value use.

    I could argue but won’t bother …

    This is/was my corp … oh, and they still train apprentices … look ’em up.

  134. September 8, 2015 9:40 am

    Looking forward to AbbottCorp (not) apologising to Milby…and all of the deserved rancour which goes along with that!

    The Australian workers’ best friend.

  135. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:41 am

    Comprehension, sb …

    an unexpected attack by Mr Stoljar that ran against her expectations

    So she didn’t expect it? Not part of the plan?

  136. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:43 am

    And your evidence for that lie is?????

    And your evidence for your lie is?????

    So she didn’t expect it? Not part of the plan?

    Or she’s just fucken stupid.

  137. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:50 am

    “So she didn’t expect it? Not part of the plan?”

    So it is not only the CFMEU criminals that get ambushed.

  138. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:55 am

    So it is not only the CFMEU criminals that get ambushed.

    Do have proof for your assertion that she was “ambushed”, rather than her just being forgetful

  139. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 8, 2015 10:08 am

    The evidence is her statement: “I just want to say to the commissioner that I had no notice that I was going to be attacked today by senior counsel.” made the day after the briefing.

    Your “evidence” is, as is usually the case with you, presumably that you make shit up to suit your twisted view of the world. This time round your trolling is pure naked lying. Sadly you are such a partisan that you think you might actually get away with it.

    What this episode shows is that you can’t be trusted not to make up lies. It is slimy operatives like you that make honest political discourse impossible. Truly you are the cunt of ages.

  140. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 10:29 am

    The evidence is her statement: “I just want to say to the commissioner that I had no notice that I was going to be attacked today by senior counsel.”

    Unless of course she forgot that she was told that, you know, when they were coaching her

    You take her complaining about being “attacked” as some kind of “ambush”? The poor darling, what, they asked the questions a bit abruptly did they? It also sounds like something someone might say if they had been, you know, coached in that manner, doesn’t it?. You completely ignore the very awkward fact that lawyers for the turc had in fact not only briefed her on the questions, but also on her answers (see my previous sentence) compared against others who have no such preferential treatment, and are in fact attacked by the commissioner himself

    What this episode shows is that you can’t be trusted not to make up lies.

    Perhaps you should blame the lolstralian, who is well known for making up lies, for writing an article that exposed that jackson DID (allegedly) get preferential treatment that the Unions, Gillard or Shorten didn’t get. They got in fact the opposite.

  141. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 8, 2015 10:43 am

  142. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 8, 2015 10:49 am

    From now on all union witnesses should refuse to appear at the RC, even if it means going to jail for contempt. They should refuse to allow it any appearance of legitimacy.

    The only way to deal with misuse of the powers of the state for illegitimate purposes is civil disobedience.

  143. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 10:53 am

    but but, ao, ms jackson COMPLAINED!!

    Therefore, she wasn’t groomed! (or something like that)

    They should refuse to allow it any appearance of legitimacy.

    It hasn’t had the “appearance” for a long time now ao, even before heydon got busted. Now, it’s just a farce. A very expensive farce, but a farce no less.

  144. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 8, 2015 11:56 am

    You just made shit up Troll R. That’s what trolls do, I suppose.

    “From now on all union witnesses should refuse to appear at the RC, even if it means going to jail for contempt.”

    I hope so. Throw away the key. They will probably enjoy some quality time on the inside with their bikie friends.

    Meanwhile the pro-corruption crowd will continue to spin, spin, spin.

  145. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 8, 2015 12:04 pm

    What chance do the voters get in this ‘democracy’?

  146. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 12:41 pm

    You just made shit up Troll R

    You’ll have to highlight where I “made shit up”? You don’t think giving one “witness” a heads up, while preparing ambushes for others doesn’t reek of bias?

  147. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 8, 2015 2:24 pm

    What a beat up.

    Jackson was hardly the only one that got some background.

  148. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 2:29 pm

    Jackson was hardly the only one that got some background.

    No doubt. I’m sure the likes of Ralph Blewitt and Rob Elliott got a fair bit of back grounding too 😉

  149. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 3:00 pm

    DITHERER!

    PRIME Minister Tony Abbott has told parliament the government will announce its response to the Syrian refugee crisis within 24 hours.

    Could you imagine this twat if Australia really was invaded?

  150. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 3:03 pm

    Meanwhile the pro-corruption crowd will continue to spin, spin, spin.

    And you don’t see collusion and deception, prejudice and bias, manipulation and bureaucratic corruption of process … LOL! … blind, blind, blind …

    BTW, I’m no fan of the CFMEU … but c’mon …

  151. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 3:16 pm

    will announce its response to the Syrian refugee crisis within 24 hours.

    So, only 12 months and 24 hrs after Labor made their position clear on this then. 😉

  152. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 8, 2015 3:25 pm

    So, only 12 months and 24 hrs after Labor made their position clear on this then.

    Yeah when in power Labor took 98 Syrians in 2012-3 and 9 the year before.

    But in Opposition they say something different.

  153. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 3:34 pm

    Kneel, either comment on the NOW decisions or don’t bother at all … problem is you weren’t around when we were giving the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government a hard time …

    And in my case my local member … in person … at a street stop!

  154. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 3:42 pm

    Yeah when in power Labor took 98 Syrians in 2012-3 and 9 the year before.

    Yeah butt ………………

    Labor were taking in $20k asylum seekers, this mob only $13k Take your maths homework back to mum

  155. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 8, 2015 3:52 pm

    I notice the fraudian slip with the dollar signs.

    Labor were taking in 20K country shoppers and the Coalition is taking in 13K refugees.

  156. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 4:59 pm

    I notice the fraudian slip with the dollar signs.

    Yea, I don’t know why the $ is there, but if that’s your take out from it, then that speaks volumes.

  157. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 8, 2015 5:42 pm

    HILARIOUS

    The ALP couldn’t even get the Senate to agree to their stupid stunt about Heydon.

    Both hypocrites and failures.

  158. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 8, 2015 6:02 pm

    “The ALP couldn’t even get the Senate to agree to their stupid stunt about Heydon.”

    Time for the Unions to put up or shut-up! The High Court can rule on the bias issue, unless of course the unions don’t have the courage of their convictions. If they fail to appeal then no one will take them seriously when the keep whining.

  159. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 6:27 pm

    The ALP couldn’t even get the Senate to agree to their stupid stunt about Heydon.

    That doesn’t change the facts that witnesses get different treatment dependent upon their political backers.

  160. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 6:34 pm

    TIME TO GO, ABBOTT!

    The senior officials did concede to the committee they had discussed with Mr Milby options available under the planned changes, including reflagging ships, but denied this constituted “advice”.

    Meanwhile, parliament’s human rights committee has raised concerns about the government’s controversial changes to the shipping laws.

    Under the bill, foreign ships could circumvent Australian crew requirements including not paying their workers in accordance with local laws.

    The committee, chaired by Liberal MP Philip Ruddock, in a report said the measures could limit work rights and allow workers to be paid wages less than award rates.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/labor-seeks-to-censure-truss-over-shipping/story-e6frfku9-1227517958099

    Destruction everywhere … not a drop of care …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Both hypocrites and failures.

    That’s The Mad Abbott’s government and the Senate … you’re talking about … ?

    HILARIOUS alright!

  161. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 8, 2015 6:56 pm

    When it comes to stunts, the Senate is the place to be.

    But the ALP couldn’t even get this Senate, full to the brim of self promoters, to agree to the stupid, hypocritical, pointless HILARIOUS stun.

    Over to the CFMEU to lapse into some fact free character assassination – which is their greatest area of expertise.

  162. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 7:02 pm

    But the ALP couldn’t even get this Senate

    Well, to be fair, they were only one vote short.

    Not that it changes the facts.

    The problem was that although Kathy was given a soft ride on the witness chair, she unwittingly made reference whilst under oath to accessing HSU funds whilst not being an employee of the union. This put Counsel Assisting in an awkward position and saw the Commissioner Interrupt proceedings.

    After that, once the news of the NHDA account and Peter Mac hit the mainstream media, the Commission seemed to slip into self-preservation mode and its attitude appeared to change towards Jackson.

    This left Jackson, after being called back, left on the witness stand like a deer caught in the headlights, wondering why her prior deal to vindicate her and destroy her accusers had suddenly gone pear-shaped. One can hardly forget the shocked body language of Michael Lawler and Marco Bolano that day:

    https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/turc-corrupted-the-kathy-jackson-fix,7116

  163. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 7:12 pm

    With the polls at – what is it today?

    Do you really think the rest of Australia GAFF what Abbott or the Senate does anymore?

    Switch – click!

  164. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 7:15 pm

    Do you really think the rest of Australia GAFF what Heydon and the Rightwing Catholics Against Unions does anymore?

    Bob Santamaria would be frothing in glee!

    Switch – click!

  165. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 8, 2015 7:58 pm

    Do you really think the rest of Australia GAFF what Heydon and the Rightwing Catholics Against Unions does anymore?

    Yeah!! Just let it get on with its uncontentious work.

  166. Tom R permalink
    September 8, 2015 9:05 pm

    Yeah!! Just let it get on with its uncontentious work.

    When are they going to start it?

  167. TB Queensland permalink
    September 8, 2015 10:42 pm

    Yeah!! Just let it get on with its uncontentious work.

    I think you meant … “unconscionable”, Tom … but it certainly isn’t “uncontentious” … quite the opposite …

  168. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 9, 2015 10:06 am

  169. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 9, 2015 10:46 am

    Comment: The delays and cost blowouts have been much worse under the Coalition

    Stupid comment. Nobody knows what Labors FTTP would cost or even if it is capable of being built. Since the NBN has been started with unbreakable contracts it is better to go with the cheaper option- FTTN

  170. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 9, 2015 11:01 am

  171. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 9, 2015 11:09 am

    As I’ve said re NBN , a CEO I knew, who ran one of the original canoes building the NBN said it would never be built as planned.

    *Too expensive
    *Australia too spread out
    *Couldn’t afford it

    He was smarter than anyone that comments here, more intelligence and insight than any of the politicians and knew plenty about construction costs and the technology.

  172. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 9, 2015 11:13 am

    “companies” not “canoes”

    I think I might stop using this device.

  173. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 9, 2015 11:25 am

    canoes 🙂

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/syria-crisis-australia-will-potentially-welcome-more-than-10000-refugees/story-fni0cx12-1227518617903

    An intelligence source said the Prime Minister had told defence chiefs that if and when the decision was made, he wanted at least one air strike by the end of this week…

    I can only think “fools rush in…”

    Operation ‘Desperate Tony’

  174. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 9, 2015 11:27 am

  175. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 9, 2015 11:42 am

    As I’ve said re NBN , a CEO I knew, who ran one of the original canoes building the NBN said it would never be built as planned.

    One thing i have noticed is that when the ALP makes an announcement their supporters start to behave like giggling schoolgirls.

    I will give credit to the ALP when they make an announcement and then implement their policy and it works.

    The NBN FTTP most probably would end up costing $100B that is if it could be built.

  176. September 9, 2015 1:02 pm

    “One thing i have noticed is that when the ALP makes an announcement their supporters start to behave like giggling schoolgirls.”

    Open your other eye in coming days and witness Coalition supporters acting like giggling school girls when AbbottCorp announces his token, ineffectual bombing of Syria; to assuage the fearsquirters with the illusion of ‘doing something’, presumably.

  177. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 9, 2015 1:06 pm

    Open your other eye in coming days

    no good, he’s blind in the other eye!

  178. Tom R permalink
    September 9, 2015 2:44 pm

    Nobody knows what Labors FTTP would cost

    Their corporate plan(?) laid it out. And the blowouts, which will happen in the ramp up of any infrastructure project, were considered and factored, and most probably over by then.

    “Instead, the Coalition’s NBN will be so slow that it is obsolete before it’s in place, it will cost about the same as the Labor fibre to the premises network it replaced, and it won’t arrive on our doorsteps much sooner. By my reckoning, Australia didn’t get a good deal.”

    http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/telecoms-and-nbn/69338-emeritus-professor-slams-coalition-nbn-as-bad-deal

    If only someone could have foreseen that ::facepalm::

    *Too expensive
    *Australia too spread out
    *Couldn’t afford it

    *libs will kill it.

    Pretty sure that’s what he was banking on, because every technical expert in the field were right behind it, and largely agreed with the projections.

    He was smarter than anyone that comments here

    A bold statement, but, when you read the likes of wally and nil, probably a fair comment. Not sure if you can claim if he is smarter than all those technical people in the Industry who were right behind it though.

    I can only think “fools rush in…”

    It it disconcerting that this also links in with their “one per week” press release plan?

    Or am I just PARANOID!

    Open your other eye in coming days

    hehehehehe

    oops 😯

  179. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 9, 2015 3:04 pm

    Their corporate plan(?) laid it out. And the blowouts, which will happen in the ramp up of any infrastructure project, were considered and factored, and most probably over by then.

    Turnbull says this about the NBN new corporate plan

    For the first time in the history of the project, the company is in a position to accurately account for construction costs. For example, in 2013 the previous management of the NBN published an actual average cost of $2,200 to $2,500 to connect each premises via FTTP. The average cost to connect FTTP was never $2,200 to $2,500 – not then and not now. The average cost has been over time fairly consistent. As at 30 June, the actual cost was $3,632 in direct capex and $4,387 including lease costs

    So we have costs under Labor and Turnbull says the actual coasts are double what was published when Labor was in power.

    I believe Turnbull because i don’t believe a single thing Labor says.

  180. Tom R permalink
    September 9, 2015 3:07 pm

    I believe Turnbull because i …. yor a fucken idiot?

  181. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 9, 2015 3:37 pm

    How surprising!

    Technical experts support rolling out of more technology in their technical discipline!

  182. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 9, 2015 3:38 pm

    yor a fucken idiot?

    Well one of us is.

  183. Tom R permalink
    September 9, 2015 3:40 pm

    Technical experts support rolling out of more technology in their technical discipline!

    Yes, and I think I’ll listen to an Emeritus Professor over someone who is allegedly smarter than back water bloggers

    Well one of us is.

    That’s what I said, you fucken idiot!

  184. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 9, 2015 4:56 pm

    Yep, I listened to an expert in –
    * The installation of the technology, and
    * The roll out of the NBN.

    He said it would never be built as planned. It seems he’s smarter than either of us.

  185. Tom R permalink
    September 9, 2015 5:29 pm

    It seems he’s smarter than either of us.

    What, because he, just like myself and many otehrs said, saw that the libs would fuck it up?

    Yea, he’s a genius.

    I’ll just remind what an Emeritus Professor said

    In further criticism of the Coalition’s nbn, Professor Tucker claims that repairing and maintaining Telstra’s ageing copper network has major financial implications, as does retraining and maintaining a workforce with the wider range of skills needed to install and maintain the multi-technology mix network. “These costs are unique to the MTM,” he says.

    If ONLY we could have foreseen 😯

  186. TB Queensland permalink
    September 9, 2015 6:01 pm

    INCOMPETENT IDEALOGUES!

    In short, FTTN technology will cement Australia’s place as an internet backwater. Our world ranking could fall as low as 100th by 2020.

    In many forward-looking nations, fibre-to-the-node technology has never been entertained as an option. In some countries where it has been installed, network operators are planning to move away from FTTN in favour of more advanced broadband technologies like FTTP. In doing the opposite, Australia is moving backwards.

    If FTTN magically appeared on our doorsteps by 2016, as originally promised by the Coalition, there would certainly be a short-term advantage. But the 2016 target has been missed and the FTTN component of the network will be obsolete by the time the roll-out is completed.

    Of course, there is no point in speed just for speed’s sake. Studies in Europe and the United States have shown a strong correlation between GDP growth and internet speed.

    In the US and elsewhere, increasing numbers of homes and businesses are receiving services at 1 Gbps and higher. A recent study presents evidence that communities served by 1 Gbps and more are faring better economically than communities with slow-speed broadband.

    If in 2013 the Coalition had simply allowed NBN Co to get on with the job of rolling out its fibre-to-the-premises NBN, rather than changing it to an inferior multi-technology mix, it may well have ended up spending less money and delivered Australia a much better network.

    The Coalition sold the Australian public a product that was supposed to be fast, one-third the cost and arrive sooner than what Labor was offering us. Instead the Coalition’s NBN will be so slow that it is obsolete by the time it’s in place, it will cost about the same as Labor’s fibre-to-the-premises NBN, and it won’t arrive on our doorsteps much sooner.

    By my reckoning, we didn’t get a good deal.

    http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/government-it/the-nbn-why-its-slow-expensive-and-obsolete-20150908-gji0pr.html

    TIME TO GO TONY!

  187. TB Queensland permalink
    September 9, 2015 6:12 pm

    Of course, there is no point in speed just for speed’s sake. Studies in Europe and the United States have shown a strong correlation between GDP growth and internet speed.

    He was smarter than anyone that comments here, more intelligence and insight than any of the politicians and knew plenty about construction costs and the technology.

    Doesn’t sound like he understood the commercial value of the NBN … must have been one of the concreters …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Open your other eye in coming days and witness Coalition supporters acting like giggling school girls when AbbottCorp announces his token, ineffectual bombing of Syria; to assuage the fearsquirters with the illusion of ‘doing something’, presumably.

    And when one of those multi million dollar fighter is shot down and the pilot and navigator hopefully parachute (both also the results of multi million dollar training) … watch the outcry when Australians realise we cannot mount a rescue operation … the religious civil war is not a movie set …

    He said it would never be built as planned. It seems he’s smarter than either of us.

    Doubt it … he obviously votes Liberal and believed the MT NBN BS …

  188. TB Queensland permalink
    September 9, 2015 6:15 pm

    I honestly don’t know the answer to this (and too lazy to find out after painting the family room all day) … did Abbott announce the bombing of Syria first … or the acceptance of Syrian refugees?

  189. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 9, 2015 6:25 pm

    … must have been one of the concreters …

    As assessed by our resident motor mechanic,

  190. TB Queensland permalink
    September 9, 2015 7:17 pm

    As assessed by our resident motor mechanic,

    Well your “mate” (and you strangely enough) obviously don’t understand the benefits of 21st Century technology in commerce, health, education, training, law enforcement, agriculture, manufacturing, entertainment and gawd forbid the trades!

    You may think you insulted me calling me “our resident motor mechanic” (knowing my work experience and quals “after”) however, that particular trade enables skills and knowledge in mechanics, electrics, pneumatics, electronics, transmissions, energy transfer, handtools, power tools, analysis/diagnosis of problems, process, procedure, management of resources … need I really go on …

    I’ve probably saved more money through my trade than around my home than your degree(?) in economics ever will …

    Maybe I should rename you, Dick …

    BTW don’t let me near your car … I haven’t repaired one since 1979!

  191. Tom R permalink
    September 10, 2015 9:00 am

    But that’s not all he said. yabot again proved that turc is nothing but a political tool created so he can get his slogans out, repeating accusations made in turc with no basis in reality

    TONY ABBOTT: And it’s important to know who the villains are here, and the villains, Leigh, are the Labor politicians who are protecting dodgy union officials who have been ripping off workers blind for years, led by none other than the Opposition Leader himself, who was very happy to see workers earn less so that money could go to his then-union to feather his political nest.

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4309488.htm

    This is why it needs to be shut down. As long as the pm and his mates keep using it to attack the Labor opposition, with smear and innuendo flaunted in front of the biased commissioner without recourse for defense, then it must be ended.

    Which is why I think the Unions will not appeal the to the High Court. That will only extend it unnecessarily. And yabot is doing their work for them by highlighting the political nature of it.

  192. Tom R permalink
    September 10, 2015 9:22 am

    And, after refusing to apologise to the cruise operator for calling him a liar. yabots plan to sell out Australian is shown in action

    Two months after Caltex sacked 36 Australian workers from the petrol tanker Alexander Spirit, saying there wasn’t enough work for the ship in Australia, the vessel is back going between ports in Queensland and the Northern Territory with an all-foreign crew.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/caltex-tanker-that-dumped-australians-is-back-in-queensland-with-allforeign-crew-20150909-gjishm.html#ixzz3lHpYZQGY
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

  193. Tom R permalink
    September 10, 2015 9:39 am

    ‘Hasn’t it been a terrific two years’

  194. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 10, 2015 9:49 am

    Deficit up? Really?

    I think the budget deficit will be similar or less than the deficit WAyne Swan left. Labor people cannot stop telling lies.

  195. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:06 am

    “Labor people cannot stop telling lies”

    Tom R is proof of that.

  196. Tom R permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:26 am

    Tom R is proof of that.

    You keep saying that, but you keep finding it difficult to back it up. Do you deny that jackson has been given backrgounding into her turc appearance?

    The article confirms that Jackson worked closely with the Royal Commission, as did her partner Michael Lawler, she was given advance notice on what she would be facing questions on and tips to prepare for them. She was also given scope to attack her factional rivals and it was suggested that she also attack the sections of the media who were bothering her.

    The Commission also suggested,she attack Labor Party figures and, in particular, Bill Shorten.

    Bias? What bias?

    It’s all bias.

    I think the budget deficit will be similar or less than the deficit WAyne Swan left.

    hockeys first, second or third budget?

  197. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:30 am

    hockeys first, second or third budget?

    The results for Hockeys first budget will be published this month. Swans last budget was a $48B deficit. That will be hard to beat.

    But shit for brains, Jason Claire said the deficit is up.

    Please provide the evidence.

    PS. By definition Jason Claire is a lying piece of shit because he is an ALP politician.

  198. September 10, 2015 10:41 am

    By definition, Kneel’s utterances may be dismissed out of hand because he is a tragic partisan arsehat whom is incapable of seeing more than a single side of any given issue & makes utterly ridiculous statements with metronomic regularity (see immediately above).

  199. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:43 am

    Of course TURC is biased. It is biased against corruption which is precisely why Unionland corruptocrats and shills like Tom R hate it so.

  200. Tom R permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:43 am

    Swans last budget was a $48B deficit.

    Really, or is that according to hockey, after he backloaded it with his crap?

    Link?

  201. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:44 am

    By definition, Kneel’s and Tom R’s utterances may be dismissed out of hand because each is a tragic partisan arsehat whom is incapable of seeing more than a single side of any given issue & makes utterly ridiculous statements with metronomic regularity (see above).

    Peas in a pod.

  202. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:52 am

    Peas in a pod.

    Get stuffed

    The Coalition did not trash the budget
    The Coalition did not trash our borders
    The Coalition did not destroy our car industry.

    The ALP did and anybody who voted for them in 2007.

    And that includes YOU Splatterbum. How many lives have you destroyed Splatterbum because you voted for Rudd in 2007? I guess you do not care

  203. Tom R permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:58 am

    Peas in a pod.

    As opposed to your eternal incarnations of UNIONS/BIKIES!!

    No matter how many times it proven to be groundless.

    And then you complain about others being partisan ROFL

  204. Tom R permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:58 am

    Yea, this isn’t partisan (or a fundraiser, according to a biased person anyway)

  205. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 10, 2015 12:02 pm

    Peas in a pod.

    Sorry Splatterbum.

    Both you and TomR both voted for Rudd in 2007 and created all these problems.

    Splatterbum you and TomR are peas in a pod. You both voted for Rudd in 2007 and let 50,000 ec0n0mic refugees into Australia.

    Destroyed our car industry
    Destroyed our borders
    Destroyed our budget.

    But Sultterbum you like TOMR have no conscience. You do not care what you vote has destroyed

  206. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 10, 2015 12:49 pm

    Peas in a pod.

    Splatterbum have you ever given a thought for the lives you have destroyed because you voted for Rudd in 2007?

    50,000 boat people arrived
    our car industry was destroyed
    our budget was trashed
    our borders were trashed

    all because you voted for Rudd in 2007

  207. September 10, 2015 4:44 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  208. September 10, 2015 5:01 pm

    “”all because you voted for Rudd in 2007″”

    As the young people say. ‘LOL’

  209. September 10, 2015 5:32 pm

    Why doesn’t this surprise me?…also, says heaps about the strength of certain ‘beliefs’ when their purveyors realise that to utter them from a public platform would lead to deserved ridicule.

    He’d be surprised (or not) that a lot of the fundamentalist muslims he was fighting against in Afghanistan were probably of a creationist bent too.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/10/canning-byelection-andrew-hastie-refuses-to-give-his-views-on-creationism

    Personally, I’d like all elected officials to declare such nutjobbery prior to polling, not fucking hide it. It speaks to their worldview & approach.

  210. September 10, 2015 5:33 pm

    “The belief that there is a God endows every person with dignity and it inspires me to treat people with equality, and so my faith has taught me to love others, not judge others.”

    Except when it comes to same sex marriage, presumably.

  211. September 10, 2015 5:34 pm

    I’m with you, reb. Mock the fuck out of ISIS & all other cults of fantasy.

  212. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 10, 2015 6:04 pm

    TomR – “No matter how many times it proven to be groundless.

    Reb – “As the young people say. ‘LOL’

  213. Tom R permalink
    September 10, 2015 7:12 pm

    yomm – too busy lolling to bother facing facts.

    Are you sure yor not a police commissioner?

    You sound dumb enough.

  214. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 10, 2015 7:57 pm

    LOL

    (as young people say)

  215. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 10, 2015 8:39 pm

    So…

     Exactly what is the rationale for not having unions subject to the same standards of governance as companies?

     With so many union officials clearly rorting the lack of transparency (eg Kathy Jackson), why do union supporters resist greater regulation?

     With unions exercising so much unsavoury control over the ALP, how does a talented rank & file ALP member ever get preselection?

     When John Button (one of the most significant ALP figures) said it is time for an amicable divorce between unions and the ALP, was he right or wrong?

  216. September 10, 2015 8:50 pm

    The square boxes are a nice touch.

  217. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 10, 2015 9:05 pm

    Thank you, I’m trying to make my comments more interesting.

  218. September 10, 2015 9:30 pm

    Yes, pity about the content. The shapes were nice though..

  219. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 10, 2015 9:43 pm

    Thank you. It’s one step at a time.

  220. Tom R permalink
    September 10, 2015 10:08 pm

     Exactly what is the rationale for not having unions subject to the same standards of governance as companies?

    Because, they are not companies.

     With so many union officials clearly rorting the lack of transparency (eg Kathy Jackson), why do union supporters resist greater regulation?

    Because it is not “so many”, it is in fact few and far between. And, the ones caught, are most often caught by the members. In fact, your precious turc tried everything in their power to protect her.

     With unions exercising so much unsavoury control over the ALP, how does a talented rank & file ALP member ever get preselection?

    Ask rudd

     When John Button (one of the most significant ALP figures) said it is time for an amicable divorce between unions and the ALP, was he right or wrong?

    Wrong. As I have espoused many times, whilst less than perfect, at least the Unions are grounded in one primary aim, to support workers. That grounding will always win out imo. Far more than any other ideology, because, at its basis, the Unions are still held in sway by its members.

    The National Union of Workers (NUW) helped uncover exploitation on farms and poultry sites across Australia in a Four Corners program, Slaving Away, in May this year. In that program, investigative journalists followed our fresh food through the supply chain to outlets and major retailers including Subway, Coles and Woolworths. – See more at: https://newmatilda.com/2015/09/10/who-ya-gonna-call-when-workers-get-ignored-and-exploited#sthash.bSHfLRMJ.dpuf

    I’m happy for any rorting of members money to be exposed, I’m not happy with that being conflated in a political stitch up job as yabot revealed on 7.30 last night again that that is precisely what it is being used as.

    The shapes were nice though..

    I think yomm would benefit from the KISS principle. And no, I don’t mean sticking his tongue out at people.

  221. armchair opinionator permalink
    September 11, 2015 12:42 am

    Here we go, 4 Corners to do a softie on lawler & jackson. I thought that’s what Australian Story was for. Maybe that’s what the TURC lawyers advised her when they told her to make use of the media to get back at her critics.

    Twist as Kathy Jackson, Michael Lawler do ABC Four Corners deal
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/twist-as-kathy-jackson-michael-lawler-do-abc-four-corners-deal/story-fna045gd-1227521945804

    Ms Jackson’s unusual decision to file her appeal after the deadline may well be partly tactical.

    …A Federal Court hearing in the next few weeks to determine whether the appeal should proceed could have the added effect of delaying the royal commission’s efforts to recall Ms Jackson to give evidence.

    …If Ms Jackson’s evidence were postponed too long, it could rule out altogether the possibility that she would appear again at the royal commission to be grilled on her past behaviour. This is because the royal commission — while not legally bound to delay proceedings because of other court matters — has opted so far to postpone Ms Jackson’s further appearances while hearings are in the pipeline.

    Mr Lawler’s decision to take part in the ABC’s Four Corners program is unusual for someone with a semi-judicial status who is referred to in Fair Work proceedings as “his honour”…

  222. Tom R permalink
    September 11, 2015 8:36 am

    could have the added effect of delaying the royal commission’s efforts to recall Ms Jackson to give evidence.

    I get the feeling the Unions should go to the High Court, because, if anything, this looks like a set up to give an excuse to extend the RC into the election year.

    Even taking into consideration this bit

    while not legally bound to delay proceedings because of other court matters

    They pick and choose what suits them.

  223. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 23, 2015 1:49 pm

    Headline of the week: Naked clown activists issue apology to Palestinians

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