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Malcolm Turnbull’s Secret Cayman Islands Cash Stash!

October 14, 2015

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The Prince of Point Piper, also known as the Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, has dismissed claims by the Labor Party that he’s evading tax by investing in hedge funds based in the notorious tax-haven of the Cayman Islands.

According to Parliament’s register of members’ interests, Mr Turnbull has invested in two hedge funds since July last year – Zebedee Growth Fund and MSD Torchlight Partners – who both list their address as Ugland House, George Town on Grand Cayman Island.

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Ugland House: The five storey bungalo that’s home to 18,000 registered companies.

More than 18,000 companies incorporated in the Caymans – where the corporate tax rate is zero – have their registered headquarters based within the five-storey building.

In 2008, as he campaigned for the presidency, Barack Obama lambasted global companies who use Ugland House as their “official headquarters” in order to avoid paying tax.

Today, Labor Senator Sam Dastyari lashed out at the PM – who is said to have a net worth of some $200 million – accusing him of impropriety.

“There is one reason people invest in the Cayman Islands — so they don’t have to play by the same rules as the rest of us,” Senator Dastyari said.

“Why is it that this Senate can’t pass legislation to improve tax transparency? Why is it that we can’t crack down on multinational profit-shifting? Why have we seen Coalition senators refusing to ask companies earning over $100 million to declare how much tax they pay?”

“Why is it that the Liberal Party will go to the ends of the earth to protect big business? How is it appropriate that the Prime Minister of this country thinks it is acceptable to have his investments sitting in the Cayman Islands?”

Senator Dastyari acknowledged the investments were “all legal and disclosed” but asked “is any of it appropriate?”

Mr Turnbull defended his investments in the Cayman’s and accused Labor of engaging in “the politics of envy.”  Later adding that he can’t understand why everyone else doesn’t hide their assets on the Cayman Islands.

Which is a good point.  Why not invest in the Cayman Islands? Why not the USA? Or Russia? Or somewhere else?

A cynic might also care to make the point that he deliberately and knowingly invested in a tax dodging fund, not that he is not paying his fair share of tax in Australia.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that,apparently.

Rich people do it all the time, so we’re told.

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398 Comments leave one →
  1. Tom R permalink
    October 14, 2015 4:25 pm

    Love the picture reb. Caption competition?

    “No Mr Shorten, I expect you die” 😉

    (after all, that’s what Royal Commissions are for, aren’t they)

  2. Tom R permalink
    October 14, 2015 6:13 pm

    No wonder he wants the top end of town to have their finances hidden. What a total tosser.

    He is no better, no worst than yabot. Just another privileged wanker filling his pockets with the hard earned of those born below his station, and trying as hard as hell to make sure it stays that way.

  3. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 14, 2015 6:53 pm

    Dastyari’s comment is evidence only that he is an ignorant fuckwit.

    He is everything rotten and wrong about the ALP. Yet another careerist slimebag who has insinuated himself in the Senate after serving time as a Unions NSW powerbroker. And if his statements in regard to Turnbull are any guide he got there by lies, slander and intimidation i.e. business as usual in Unionland.

    There is no tax benefit to Turnbull in investing in a Cayman Fund. He will be taxable in Australia on his earnings from the fund.

    “There is one reason people invest in the Cayman Islands — so they don’t have to play by the same rules as the rest of us,” Senator Dastyari said.”

    That statement proves that Dastyari is a malignant lying cunt. No wonder politics is so fucked in this country.

  4. TB Queensland permalink
    October 14, 2015 8:07 pm

    So now we know the answer to my oft asked question … “have you ever wondered why multi millionaires are in government”?

    There is no tax benefit to Turnbull in investing in a Cayman Fund.

    So why do it? Helloooo?

    No wonder the meltdown and stirring words of anger and insult! 😉

    Just ’cause Turnbull says it is? Probably why you also believe Dyson Heydon should still have a job … would you employ a senior exec who couldn’t use a computer or read and send emails … what fkn joke … how much are we paying the incompetent old c wanker …

    I’m rather enjoying Dastyari stirring the pot … 🙂

    Mr Turnbull defended his investments in the Cayman’s and accused Labor of engaging in “the politics of envy.” Later adding that he can’t understand why everyone else doesn’t hide their assets on the Cayman Islands

    … engaging “in the politics of fairness” more like … if I hid my assets in the Caymans I’d have nothing left to live on … FMD!

    I’m sure Wally will waffle with words of wisdom soon … from a retirement investment perspective, of course … (Note: He may draw on his decades of experience in tax avoidance too, as a CPA* … )

  5. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 14, 2015 8:19 pm

    The Coalition made a mistake making Turnbull PM.

    The 54 have to take blame for this.

  6. Tom R permalink
    October 14, 2015 9:32 pm

    He will be taxable in Australia on his earnings from the fund.

    IF those earnings ever make it here, that is.

    Which can lead one to suggest that Dastyari’s comment is evidence of being bang on target.

  7. Tom R permalink
    October 14, 2015 9:35 pm

    Rich people do it all the time, so we’re told.

    Well DUH. You don’t get rich by paying your fair share of tax. Any chair swiveller could tell you that (although, it would probably cost you)

  8. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 14, 2015 10:02 pm

    So why do it? Helloooo?

    I’ve read turnbull talking about that before TB. He says he has managed funds overseas to avoid any possible conflict of interest in regard to govt policy in which he might be involved in here.

    I think that’s reasonable for him to choose a managed fund where he doesn’t know what’s in it or have any control over it.
    We’ve got pollies in parliament who have blind trusts in their own [or their wife’s names, like that makes a difference] and they have a hands on role in managing and controlling the funds, which really does become conflict of interest territory.

    Seems sensible to me, of course he knows his squillions of investments will come under scrutiny, but he does have to park the dosh somewhere doesn’t he?

  9. TB Queensland permalink
    October 14, 2015 10:19 pm

    … but he does have to park the dosh somewhere doesn’t he?

    … he does, KL, preferably here in Australia to help the Australian economy … sitting overseas doesn’t help …

    And it ain’t a good look no matter how its coloured …

    Whatever happened to transparency …

    The hypocrisy of Milkum Turncoat … from, Republic to PM of the Libs, to fkn up the NBN with all his “tech knowledge”, to poncing about in schoolyards like Abbott, is absofknlutely astounding …

    He’s player at our expense … not for our society …

    the Colgate Cowboy!

  10. TB Queensland permalink
    October 14, 2015 10:36 pm

    Oh, and I did read Lenore Taylor in the Guardian …

    By day’s end the Coalition was pointing out that Labor MPs, including Bill Shorten, have their money in super funds that also have investments that are domiciled in the Caymans.

  11. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 14, 2015 11:06 pm

    I’m with SB.

  12. Managed Money Never Peeps permalink
    October 15, 2015 2:19 am

    Every Gecko-wannabe should keep at least one phoenixed vulture in their menagerie of opportunity.

  13. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 8:22 am

    have their money in super funds that also have investments that are domiciled in the Caymans.

    That’s true TB, but ignores Labors central point. Those are super funds, ie, the members don’t really have much of a say in the location, and, they are just one of many.

    Turnbulls is a managed fund that he personally chose as a place to stash his wealth.

    Yes, it is true that any “income” is taxed in Australia. But, what about “profits”? Are they declared here as “income”, or retained on the Caymans in the fund?

    Given the Prime Minister’s register of interests shows new investments in the Cayman Islands were being declared on 18 June 2014, 19 January 2015 and 16 June 2015, can the Prime Minister confirm his Cayman Island investments were made after the tax commissioner had described it as a tax haven? Can the Prime Minister also confirm the income from those investments is higher because they are located in the Cayman Islands?

    http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/chamber/hansardr/9719682d-09af-4772-a03a-a954ad5d7b6a/toc_pdf/House%20of%20Representatives_2015_10_14_3849.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf

    It also goes to Labors broader point that, as PM, turnbull’s government is trying to stop companies with over $100 Million having to declare what tax they pay. In light of this (perhaps perceived) protection, it is pertinent to the discussion to examine the financial arrangements of those pushing this “protection” themselves.

    And, on the surface, it doesn’t look good, particularly when the location has already been described as a ” tax haven” by the tax commissioner himself

  14. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 15, 2015 8:37 am

    “So why do it? Helloooo?”

    Do you even have a fucking clue?

    Because that is the usual way to invest in those particular funds. These things are genuine investments unlike say, tea tree plantations. There is no particular tax benefit to them.

    “No wonder the meltdown and stirring words of anger and insult!”

    The meltdown was because I hate stupidity. I hate Turnbull as much as the next person. But I really, really hate dumb manipulative liars like Sam Dastardly. He really is emblematic of the careerist ALP hacks spewed into the Senate.

    “I’m rather enjoying Dastyari stirring the pot … “

    Not only is he a symbol of ALP power politics at its worst, he is turning politics into a game of snide insult rather than a matter of principle. By the time someone has slithered as far up the greasy Unionland pole as has Dastyari their only principle is to entrench their own power.

  15. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 8:49 am

    There is no tax benefit to Turnbull in investing in a Cayman Fund.

    Of course not, he’s only doing it cos it’s the done thing, isn’t he.

    It turns out they’re playing word games. The taxes you evade by putting your money in the Caymans aren’t your own personal income taxes, but your offshore investment fund’s corporate income taxes. More Holz-Eakin:

    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/107610/romney-claims-no-tax-advantage-caymans

    Perhaps you could highlight where exactly Dastyari lied?

  16. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 15, 2015 8:50 am

    “IF those earnings ever make it here, that is.”

    You mean that just like when you invest in a company here you only get taxed on dividends when they are paid to you? You must be as big as genius as Dastardly.

    “Yes, it is true that any “income” is taxed in Australia. But, what about “profits”? Are they declared here as “income”, or retained on the Caymans in the fund?”

    What profits, you clueless cunt? You seem confused about which taxpayer is relevant for Australian tax. First, Turnbull’s profits are taxed as income in Australia (in the cases where they are not taxed on the assessable income less allowable deductions basis.) So if Turnbull receives an income distribution from the fund or makes a profit on disposal of his interest in the fund he will be taxed either way.

    If, on the other hand, you are talking about the fund’s profits, the fund will only be taxed in Australia on profits sourced here. Do you think Australia should also tax it on profits it makes in, say, Japan?

  17. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 8:52 am

    Do you think Australia should also tax it on profits it makes in, say, Japan?

    And therein lies the rub 😉

  18. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 8:54 am

    Sorry, forgot to paste this into the last comment

    In other words, the Romneys aren’t evading income taxes by putting their money in the Caymans. The fund they put their money into is evading taxes by parking itself in the Cayman Islands. As a result, that fund (and therefore the Romneys) get to keep more of the profits. Why evade taxes when you can get somebody to do it for you?

    (from the newrepublic link)

  19. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 15, 2015 8:58 am

    “Of course not, he’s only doing it cos it’s the done thing, isn’t he.”

    What is his tax benefit? You are a dumb political troll. You are part of the problem.

  20. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:02 am

    But in reality, turnbull accessing offshore tax-havens to minimise his exposure to Australia’s taxation system that is out of reach of the ordinary voter is small bickies when compared to his willful destruction of a major infrastructure project designed to secure Australia’s future for all, and his misuse of those resources for his own political ends

    Turnbull asked NBN Co to generate info to tear down FTTP
    https://delimiter.com.au/2015/10/13/turnbull-asked-nbn-co-to-generate-evidence-to-tear-down-fttp/?utm_content=buffer35534&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    Luckily, Labor have finally declared their intent on the NBN should they win the election. It will also play nicely into the so called “tech” pm’s claim of being technologically literate, which he obviously isn’t. He is just less illiterate than the rest of his neanderthal party. I mean, under his control, NBNco were actually planning to replace copper lines with ……. copper lines ROFL

    NBN will go back to full fibre optic under Labor, says Clare

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/business/nbn-would-go-back-to-fibre-optic-under-australian-labor-party-says-jason-clare-20151013-gk8fih.html?stb=twt#ixzz3oa9w9djk
    Follow us: @canberratimes on Twitter | CanberraTimes on Facebook

  21. Walrus permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:02 am

    “So why do it? Helloooo?”

    Currency diversification / The Expertise of its Investment Managers……………….plenty of reasons.

    How is that Metal Storm investment of yours going by the way ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Storm

  22. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:03 am

    What is his tax benefit?

    try reading posted comments before calling people names and you might appear less like those names you are using yourself 😉

  23. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:04 am

    The Commissioner thinks every country that taxes less than Australia is a tax haven – like Singapore.

    Just tell me why Australia should tax profits a non-resident entity makes in Japan?

    In Turnbull’s case he will be taxed on any fund distribution. Thus Turnbull’s share of profits will be taxed in Australia at Australian rates. What part of that don’t you understand?

  24. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:05 am

    You haven’t yet explained what tax benefit Turnbull gets.

  25. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:12 am

    hint sb who appears unable to read

    (from the newrepublic link) 😉

  26. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:14 am

    How is that Metal Storm investment of yours going by the way ?

    There is only one Metal Storm to worry about these days imo 🙂

    The black jack king and the red queen clash
    The artful dodger he counts his stash

  27. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:24 am

    Apparently it’s ok for super funds and their members to choose to boycott some investments (eg Transfield) but they can’t choose to avoid tax havens.

  28. October 15, 2015 9:32 am

    “”he is turning politics into a game of snide insult rather than a matter of principle”””

    But isn’t that what they all do?

    Look at the Libs and the way Mal Brough and Christopher Pyne went after Peter Slipper, or Malcolm Turnbull and Utegate.

    There’s a litany of examples of snide accusations and “guilty by association” remarks that usually, more often than not, emanate from the ranks of the LNP.

    Dastyari is just giving the Libs a taste of their own medicine, and justly so.

    And it’s been a political masterstroke from that perspective….

    Now everyone knows that Talcum is an pompous toff with millions hidden away in the Cayman Islands – whether that’s legal or illegal doesn’t really matter.

    The mental image has been cemented in the minds of voters and that’s all that really matters, isn’t it?

  29. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:36 am

    The mental image has been cemented in the minds of voters and that’s all that really matters, isn’t it?

    Compare this with the turc witch hunt. The papers are still prattling bout “secret deals”, when in fact, the only secrets kept were between umbrella companies, nothing to do with the Unions.

    But, it’s the mental image. Difference is, turnbulls image is one he created himself, Shortens is one being crafted by a biased witch hunt and similarly biased media reporting only one side of the witch hunt.

  30. Walrus permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:45 am

    “….hint sb who appears unable to read”

    Apparently the “tax benefit” is the increased earnings that the Funds get to keep and which then gets distributed to Turnbull who pays Australian tax on it.

    LOL…………………some “benefit”

  31. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:48 am

    “But isn’t that what they all do? …

    The mental image has been cemented in the minds of voters and that’s all that really matters, isn’t it?”

    I know. But has been grating on me lately. And I’ve been one of the offenders all to often, playing the cynical point-scoring game. Tom R makes me do it, I swear he does.

    I’ve given up on consistency. I’ll just say what is on my mind today even if I said the opposite yesterday.

    Anyway, we can all agree that Turnbull is a complete tosser, a scheming egomaniac who will take every chance to avoid tax. But seriously, Caymans is a jurisdiction which is widely used and well understood by investors world wide. The main tax benefits, if any, are for US management and investors. Since the CFC, FIF and transferor trust rules of 1991 (and their successors) it has been fairly useless as a tax haven for Australians.

  32. October 15, 2015 9:51 am

    I’ve been one of the offenders all to often, playing the cynical point-scoring game.

    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

    Tom R makes me do it, I swear he does.

    🙂

  33. October 15, 2015 9:52 am

    “”I’ve given up on consistency. I’ll just say what is on my mind today even if I said the opposite yesterday.””

    Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.

  34. October 15, 2015 9:54 am

    “”Compare this with the turc witch hunt.””

    The turc enquiry is a massive yawn from my perspective.

  35. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:55 am

    MUAHAHAHAHA!!!

    I now haz controls over sb

    next stage, THE WORLD!

  36. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 9:57 am

    I’ve given up on consistency

    Again?

    The turc enquiry is a massive yawn from my perspective.

    Unfortunately, the msm seem enthralled with (one half) of it.

    They get really bored when the Union lawyers start blowing the smear back out of the water though.

  37. Walrus permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:00 am

    Mmmmmmmmmm………..

    Just went out into the back garden and stumbled across a red belly black snake sunning himself.

    Yikes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  38. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:08 am

    Red bellies won’t kill you. They just are annoying pests. I bet Tom R is a red belly.

  39. Walrus permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:16 am

    I know SB.

    He will move on in due course. Although the dogs are quite fascinated.

    If it was a Brown I’d be shitting myself

  40. October 15, 2015 10:24 am

    “”Just went out into the back garden””

    This is what Walrus calls his “back garden“…

  41. October 15, 2015 10:29 am

    Good article on the pokies…

    http://www.cyenne.com/discussion/lets-talk-about-pokies/

  42. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:31 am

    He will move on in due course.

    Probably.

    There is just so much wrong with this grubmint that our pm stashing his cash in a Caymans tax haven is really small fish

    Quigley knew what Adcock does not: Building the NBN is public service

    https://delimiter.com.au/2015/10/14/quigley-knew-what-adcock-does-not-building-the-nbn-is-public-service/

  43. Walrus permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:44 am

    “This is what Walrus calls his ……….”

    No mine has more paving to save $ on getting a second greenkeeper

  44. Walrus permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:44 am

    Actually real estate prices in Palm Beach have gone down in the last quarter according to the Real Estate agent down the road.

  45. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:49 am

    How is that Metal Storm investment of yours going by the way ?

    It went into receivership a couple of years ago … as you know …

    We both know a high tech start up was a risk … and I risked only what I could afford to lose …

    So what’s your point and what has that to do with Turnbull’s tax avoidance … ?

    Play the man, look over there? You are a Wally, Wally …

    Should I have just stuck my money into a Cayman account? The fees would probably be more than my loss on Metal Storm …

    Note: Keep an eye on Colt’s future weapons though …

    Just sayin’ …

  46. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:51 am

    Apparently the “tax benefit” is the increased earnings that the Funds get to keep and which then gets distributed to Turnbull who pays Australian tax on it.

    LOL…………………some “benefit”

    So I ask again … why bother … ?

  47. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:55 am

    “”Just went out into the back garden””

    This is what Walrus calls his “back garden“…

    So what happened to these views? From the penthouse …

  48. October 15, 2015 10:56 am

    What ever happened to Crapperville?

  49. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:56 am

    He will move on in due course.

    Probably.

    Forgive him for knows not what grammar be …

    I think he was referring to the red belly … I think?

  50. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 10:59 am

    What ever happened to Crapperville?

    See above …

    Who wants to bet that Westpac’s competitors will now compete with each other to raise mortgage interest rate … competition is good for the … ROBBER BARONS … ask Milkum Turncoat …

  51. Walrus permalink
    October 15, 2015 11:00 am

    The picturesque utopia that is Crapperville…………….

  52. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 15, 2015 11:07 am

    “So I ask again … why bother … ?”

    Why bother to make any investment?

    About half of the world’s hedge funds are Cayman funds. So if you want to invest in a hedge fund chances are it will be a Cayman fund.

  53. Walrus permalink
    October 15, 2015 11:24 am

    Plus the Cayman’s has a very rigorous reporting and legal structure and it is in the same time zone pretty much as Wall Street.

    It’s kind of like a Singapore for the Americas

  54. Walrus permalink
    October 15, 2015 11:37 am

    “Who wants to bet that Westpac’s competitors will now compete with each other to raise mortgage interest rate ….”

    Us finance types prefer to call general price rises as merely “crowd funding”.

    Haven’t you heard of the term ????????????

  55. October 15, 2015 11:47 am

    TBs back yard

  56. October 15, 2015 11:47 am

    Us finance types prefer to call general price rises as merely “crowd funding”.

    🙂

  57. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 15, 2015 11:50 am

    Who wants to bet that Westpac’s competitors will now compete with each other to raise mortgage interest rate

    Based on my current situation i want a increase in interest rates. So do lots of old people who live off the interest on their term deposits which give diddly squat at the moment.

  58. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 12:04 pm

    It’s kind of like a Singapore for the Americas

    See … your so used to bypassing the system its “natural” …

    So why bother again?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Shit, sreb, I can’t afford all those nice clothes … might be my brother’s place … he’s only got one satellite dish tho’ … maybe the bastard’s come into some money! 😦

  59. October 15, 2015 12:05 pm

    See … your so used to bypassing the system

    I think you mean “you’re”…

  60. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 1:45 pm

    …”I’ve given up on consistency. I’ll just say what is on my mind today even if I said the opposite yesterday.”…

    hehe, totally agree!

    Do they have disposable flags these days? Can’t we keep them in storage until another state visit when they get dusted off and used again?

    Tony Abbott Bought So Many Ukrainian Flags It’ll Leave You Dumbstruck:
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/its-almost-crimeanal#.mcqokymQ6

    …Newly released documents reveal former prime minister Tony Abbott bought 110 Ukrainian flags in just one year, which cost the taxpayer more than $5,000…

    MH-17: The Dog Still Not Barking:
    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/10/13/mh-17-the-dog-still-not-barking/

    Exclusive: The dog not barking in the Dutch report on the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 is the silence regarding U.S. intelligence information that supposedly had pinned down key details just days after the crash but has been kept secret, writes Robert Parry.

  61. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 1:54 pm

    The reader’s comments seem to be largely against turnbull or at least the issue being something that the public should know about.

    25 days: That’s how long it’s taken Bill Shorten and Labor to flick the switch to class warfare
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/25-days-thats-how-long-its-taken-bill-shorten-and-labor-to-flick-the-switch-to-class-warfare-20151014-gk9gqd.html#ixzz3obKdKFBq

  62. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 2:06 pm

    I think you mean “you’re”…

    Oh, thank you … 🙂

  63. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 2:25 pm

    Oh, that’s priceless ao. Nothing highlights hypocrisy like our media

    Except, of course, that as political attack dog Senator Sam “Dasher” Dastyari conceded on Wednesday when firing the initial salvo, the investments are “all legal and disclosed”.

    but, but, doesn’t he still have “questions to answer”

    muppets.

    oh, and mista missola forgets, Labor’s been doing “class warfare” for years

    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/the-australian-opposition-class-warfare-joke,4125

  64. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 2:27 pm

    The lizard is in the house.

  65. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 2:41 pm

  66. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:01 pm

    oh, and mista missola forgets, Labor’s been doing “class warfare” for years

    As far as I’m concerned, it always was and always will be a class war.
    When 1% can hold more wealth than the 99% combined, there most certainly should be a class war, people should be storming the barricades in anger. Entrenched wealth is obviously using the financial, legal and political systems to their own advantage.

  67. October 15, 2015 3:15 pm

    “As far as I’m concerned, it always was and always will be a class war.
    When 1% can hold more wealth than the 99% combined, there most certainly should be a class war, people should be storming the barricades in anger. Entrenched wealth is obviously using the financial, legal and political systems to their own advantage.””

    Agree 100%!!!

  68. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:20 pm

  69. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:23 pm

  70. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:27 pm

    Agree 100%!!!

    I AGREE!

  71. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:27 pm

  72. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:30 pm

    Read my op ed What do the industries slated for penalty rate cuts have in common? Women

    And yes, whilst the libs are busy trying their hardest to hit the most vulnerable, Labor SHOULD keep highlighting just how priviliged turnbull is. And, if muppets like missola nad onselen are complaining, then the barbs hitting

    Perhaps next time turnbull argues for paying people less, we should just post this, just for the benefit of “class warfare” 😉

    http://www.domain.com.au/news/kidman-sells-turnbulls-buy-in-new-york-20120808-23u8c/

  73. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:30 pm

  74. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:35 pm

  75. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:37 pm

    The lizard is in the house.

    It never stops does it. At least we know that Abbott is a dinki die conservative because he is hated so much.

    You people are so full of hate that i still find amazing.

  76. October 15, 2015 3:40 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  77. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 3:52 pm

    I learned yesterday that Peter Garrett has become allergic to cold water.

    Remember when he was found passed out on the beach after surfing? That was from the cold water and he could have died says an expert. He has to carry an epipen at all times.

    I’m thinking he must carry an umbrella too!

  78. October 15, 2015 4:02 pm

    lol!!

  79. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 4:13 pm

  80. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 4:26 pm

    Agree 100%!!!

    I AGREE!

    Robber Barons

    Nothing is new

    Nothing changes

    From what I’ve read, seen and heard today Labor really need to switch their**** attack to infrastructure …

    Having a swipe and then constantly repeating it is like someone who tell a joke, gets a laugh and then keeps repeating it … it only works the first time …

    The LibNits are vulnerable on policy … what there is of it … all talk no action … just another Liberal spokesperson … the only difference is he’s more glib, smiles a lot, smarmy rather than aggressive and is way richer than Mr Mortgage Abbott!

    Play the policies not the man … that’s what the LibNits do … and no-one likes it much …

  81. October 15, 2015 4:39 pm

    “”Play the policies not the man … that’s what the LibNits do … and no-one likes it much””

    Yes, but unfortunately the electorate has the attention span of a gnat and seldom have much interest in reading about policy. It’s much simpler to form an opinion about an individual based on whether someone likes them or not, and then vote accordingly.

    Talcum is more eloquent than Abbott, and I’ll be the first to thank dog to see the back of Abbott.

    Talcum’s problem is that many Australians are likely to form the opinion – sooner rather than later – that he’s out of touch with ordinary Australians and they’ll take a disliking to him.

    Labor are already fanning the flames with the whole Cayman Island thing.

    In truth there’s probably nothing to see here, but it does help cement the perception.

    And it seems that there’s many from the hard right in the Liberal Party who are quite happy to sit by and watch him self destruct.

  82. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 15, 2015 4:52 pm

    Why do you people want the ALP back?

    I guess you cannot wait to start locking up kids again.

  83. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 5:21 pm

    From what I’ve read, seen and heard today Labor really need to switch their**** attack to infrastructure …

    Looks like infrastructures on the menu again boys 🙂

  84. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 5:23 pm

    I’m guessing there’s nothing on sb’s mind again today 🙂

  85. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 15, 2015 5:36 pm

    I’m stressed at work today you fucker, at least in part because I got sucked in to arguing with you. And now I have to work late!

  86. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 5:38 pm

    Labor are already fanning the flames with the whole Cayman Island thing.

    I know the reasoning … but a quick whiz around the meejya shows that while Labor is fanning the embers, the meejya are dropping water bombs on any flicker of flames …

    People seem to be enchanted by Turnbull … many ’cause he’s fkn rich … I still haven’t seen him DO anything different to Abbott except demonstrate a smoother gift of the gab …

    Glib salespeople lose me immediately … if the product’s good I’ll go elsewhere … if its shit, glib salesgobble won’t work …

    I used to work alongside a couple of new car salesmen who knew every sneaky trick in the book … that’s what Turncoat reminds me of … smooth look, fine suits, best shoes, groomed to a tee, expensive aftershave, articulate – answer for everything (see today’s QT), big smile, look you straight in the eye … but butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths … and they’d sell you your granny in bits, if it got a sale …

    Is it just a game for Turncoat … ?

  87. Tom R permalink
    October 15, 2015 6:00 pm

    at least in part because I got sucked in to arguing with you.

    MUAHAHAHAHA!

    WORLD DOMINATION NEXT! 🙂

    he meejya are dropping water bombs on any flicker of flames …

    Yes, but like the turc smear, if they are bombing it, they are mentioning it, and getting Labors message out for them.

    Maybe Labor have finally worked out the meeja?

    Of course, it is risky, it could backfire, especially if someone in the msm starts arguing with facts. So I reckon they’re on petty solid ground 😉

    And, turnbull will be his own downfall

    Turnbull wants whole Cabinet to use Slack

    https://delimiter.com.au/2015/10/15/turnbull-wants-whole-cabinet-to-use-slack/

    What a fucken idiot. He’s a techno poser, with no real understanding of anything, except how to horde cash

    (hat tip reb)

  88. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2015 6:21 pm

    I’m stressed at work today you fucker …

    Chuckle …

  89. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 6:44 pm

    I’m stressed at work today you fucker, at least in part because I got sucked in to arguing with you. And now I have to work late!

    😆

    well done sb!

  90. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 6:57 pm

    Is it just a game for Turncoat … ?

    You wonder don’t you?

    When the man has more money than he knows what to do with, he decides he needs to be PM.

    I think being tossed over for abbott before was too much for him, revenge is a dish best left cold [or something like that] who would blame him, fkn abbott, all those fkn religious nutjobs who think they own the party! I still think abetz set him up over grech.

    He did us all a favour really, the whole nation had a collective sigh of relief when abbott walked the corridor of shame after the coup. Yes, we have malcolm to thank for ridding us of the detested abbott & the crazies.

    But that doesn’t mean he can bring in workchoices!

  91. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 7:36 pm

    Former ABS head says employment data ‘not worth paper they’re written on’

    …The former head of the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) has accused the organisation of badly bungling the way it collects and analyses its monthly employment survey and said parts of it should be dumped immediately for as long as five years…

    …After working for the organisation for over 40 years, Bill McLennan said changes early last year to the way the data is gathered suggest the bureau has abandoned “strict methodological and operational practices” established over half a century ago…

    …He said last year’s review failed to address the underlying problem, which is that since early 2014 the ABS has effectively produced a different statistical series to what existed previously…

    http://www.afr.com/news/economy/former-abs-head-says-employment-data-not-worth-paper-theyre-written-on-20151014-gk8syh?&utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:twi-14omn0055-optim-nnn:nonpaid-27062014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-afr-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_twitter

  92. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 7:57 pm

    Full letter: why the ABS is broken
    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/national/full-letter-why-the-abs-is-broken-20151015-gka3j2

  93. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 15, 2015 8:12 pm

    Malcolm Turnbull speaks out: I’ve got a lot of money but I’ve paid a lot of tax

    Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/politics/malcolm-turnbull-speaks-out-ive-got-a-lot-of-money-but-ive-paid-a-lot-of-tax-20151015-gka5lx#ixzz3ocpa5FJk
    Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook

    Tony Abbott’s mortgage stress back on the agenda:
    Read more: http://www.afr.com/brand/rear-window/tony-abbotts-mortgage-stress-back-on-the-agenda-20151012-gk77sg#ixzz3ocs9Ujkc
    Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook

    …We’ve spoken with a few of Abbott’s recent commiserators, and they concede that our 28th prime minister has been particularly preoccupied with the fact that his salary has been brutally slashed from $539,338 to just short of $200k, and how much more onerous that makes the mortgage payments on his Forestville home…

    …Mind you, the Abbotts bought the Forestville house way back in 1994 (around the time the Mad Monk first hit the frontbench) for $351,000. And 16 years later, the dual-income couple had a mortgage twice that size. What gives?

    While he was PM, he would’ve hardly spent a dime of his $540k salary (house, car, plane and staff all provided) – although half of it is trousered by those bastards at the tax office.

    The good news is that on retirement from Parliament, Abbott’s life pension will be $307,542 (unless he takes the $1.53 million upfront and accepts a pension half that size). So what’s he waiting for? Probably for Margie to finish unpacking the boxes…

  94. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 8:03 am

    No wonder the budget position deteriorated so quickly under yabot ao. I’m guessing hes borrowing and ploughing the money back into investments. Investments we know nothing about it seems. Caymans perhaps?

    Of course, he could take the advice of another wise man. Get A Better Job!

    I’d feel sorry for him, but, considering how hard his grubmint made it for those less well off, and how much worst they actually wanted to make it for them, then tough shit.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy 😉

    And that ABS letter highlights everything the grubmint did wrong

    if funding didn’t allow testing, then these changes should never have been implemented.

    Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/politics/national/full-letter-why-the-abs-is-broken-20151015-gka3j2#ixzz3ofk14j47
    Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook

    All they did was cut, without any apparent fore thought to the repercussions. Watching the news at night here in Adelaide, with a steady stream of (mainly engineering) companies folding, and the news morons sitting back going “why is that?” just infuriates me.

    They KNOW why, they just won’t speak it’s name. And that lies at feet of hockey and yabot, DIRECTLY!

  95. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 8:29 am

    Oh, and I think I can speak for everyone (?) when I say I hope sb is feeling better today, and fully recovered from whatever ailed him yesterday.

    Get well soon lad 😉

  96. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 16, 2015 8:32 am

    “people only have money in the Cayman’s for one reason !!”

    It is truly dumb statements like that that enrage me.

    The funny thing is that Australia has, in its own ham-fisted way, tried to compete with the Caymans and Singapore and other countries by having broadly similar tax rules. Basically, an Australian managed fund which invests offshore will not be taxed on offshore income which is distributed to foreign investors in the fund.

    The problem is that the Australian rules are riddled with technical rules and the Australian corporate regulatory regime is complicated. Foreign investors prefer systems that they are very familiar with and whose rules they understand. Hence people putting a fund together will choose countries like the Caymans and Singapore as the place of domicile of the fund because they expect it will be easier to attract investors.

  97. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 8:59 am

    it will be easier to attract investors.

    So, a “tax haven”

    Which is why Labor brought it up in the context of multi-nationals parking their moneys offshore

  98. October 16, 2015 9:05 am

    If it looks like a tax haven and it smells like a tax haven, then there’s probably nothing to see here (according to the Libs)…

  99. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:07 am

    “So, a “tax haven””

    I explained above the non-tax reasons why it would be easier to attract investors. Anyway I’ve learned my lesson from yesterday. No more from me today on this topic.

  100. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:16 am

    then there’s probably nothing to see here

    Nope, nothing at all to to see (which really is the core of the topic isn’t it?)

    But, it is fairly obvious WHY Malcayman and his lot are fighting for the multi-nationals squirreling away our hard earned in overseas “investment attractors” (for want of another term)

  101. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:18 am

    This is 100% legal (not that there is anything wrong with that ………… is there?)

  102. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:25 am

    There is no doubt Caymans is a tax haven. So is New Zealand as regards CGT, which it doesn’t have. So is Ireland. So is the Netherlands.

    The reason an Australian would invest in Caymans fund cannot be tax driven because there is no tax advantage as compared to making the same investment through an Australian fund. The Australian investor will pay the same tax either way. And the fund will pay the same tax – see my earlier reference to the Australian conduit rules.

    And yes, I hate myself for getting dragged into this but, you know, when someone is wrong on the internet …..

  103. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:31 am

    Funnily enough, Richo is now on Turnbull’s case, a tad hypocritical I think.

  104. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:33 am

    see my earlier reference to the Australian conduit rules.

    So you disagree with what newrepublic said above about it not being your personal income taxes that you evade, but your offshore investment fund’s corporate income taxes that are being evaded?

    Tax is not just personal income tax, it is just that personal income is the easiest to tax. Which is why it is by far the largest percentage of tax intake, whereas company and resource rent are only 18% of the entire tax take (compared with 48% for individual income tax)

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-14/do-eight-of-ten-taxpayers-fund-welfare-bill/6822840

    Labor’s “smear” must be working. rupes in full defense

  105. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:41 am

    Richo’s made a career out of being hypocritical though, hasn’t he sb?

    Looks like I’m stuck in moderation again 😦

  106. October 16, 2015 9:47 am

    “”No more from me today on this topic.””

    NOOOOOOO!!!!

    Don’t give up now!!

  107. October 16, 2015 9:48 am

    “”Malcayman””

    That is very fkn funny!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  108. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:49 am

    Don’t give up now!

    So, those two posts after he said that his way of throwing in the towel? 😉

    btw reb, thanks for releasing me 🙂

  109. TB Queensland permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:50 am

    WOW! What a powerful story of personal sacrifice … that I’ve never heard of before … but demonstrating how easily it is to misunderstand and misjudge people’s actions and believe …

    AN AUSTRALIAN hero forgotten by history has finally been recognised around the world thanks to a Facebook post by an Italian writer.

    Peter Norman was the third man in one of the most iconic photos of all time, when sprinters John Carlos and Tommie Smith raised black-gloved fists in the air on the podium in a brave stand for black rights at the Mexico Olympics in 1968.

    http://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/world-finally-recognises-little-known-aussie-hero-in-iconic-photo/story-fno61i58-1227570804030

    It also demonstrates the power of the interwebby!

  110. October 16, 2015 10:15 am

    “”Taken from September 28 to October 9, the Research Now poll asked: “Do you think Malcolm Turnbull should take stronger action in the following areas, even if there is opposition within his own party?” The question was applied to five key policy fields: humane refugee policies; marriage equality; climate change; renewable energy; extra funding for school education.

    In every single category, the majority answered yes. More humane policies on refugees registered a 55 per cent approval; marriage equality 61 per cent; climate change 67 per cent; renewable energy 81 per cent; and more money for schools, 76 per cent.

    Even among Liberal voters, support is at or above 50 per cent on each issue. That is, half of Liberal voters think Turnbull could be more humane to asylum seekers – presumably if it could be done without reviving the people smuggling trade.””

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/malcolm-turnbull-clear-on-break-with-abbott-policies-but-still-finding-his-way-20151014-gk9fik.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn%3Atwi-13omn1677-edtrl-other%3Annn-17%2F02%2F2014-edtrs_socialshare-all-nnn-nnn-vars-o%26sa%3DD%26usg%3DALhdy28zsr6qiq#ixzz3ogIldaZe

  111. October 16, 2015 10:18 am

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  112. TB Queensland permalink
    October 16, 2015 11:14 am

    … because there is no tax advantage as compared to making the same investment through an Australian fund.

    So I ask again, why do it?

    No, I’ll rephrase that … so what is the advantage for WCPs?

  113. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:07 pm

    That is very fkn funny!!

    Thanks reb, I made it up all by myself after reading over at Poll Bludger 😉

    They also had the Member for NetWorth 😆

    So I ask again, why do it?

    [hint] “newrepublic “

  114. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:08 pm

    Gallery says Labor has misstepped?

    I note ‘teh’ Gallery is also no longer interested in “context” like they were back in Gillards day.

  115. TB Queensland permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:09 pm

    [hint] “newrepublic “

    [hint] Shhhhhhh … 😉

  116. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:12 pm

    ” presumably if it could be done without reviving the people smuggling trade.”

    Impossible. The moment ANY change is made, the lib people smuggling advertising arm will ramp up the bull horn again, telling all and sunder that Australia is “Open for Business”

    libs, the best friend people smugglers ever had. I mean, shit, nowadays, they are actually paying them to ply their trade.

  117. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:14 pm

    [hint] Shhhhhhh …

    [hint] OK 😉

  118. TB Queensland permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:21 pm

    Breaking News!

    Following speculation by the secret Editor in Chief (Code name – Kamahl!) on the whereabouts of Crapperville and plans for a the futuristic fly trap … the Gutter Trash roving Middle East Reporter has this exclusive!

    Crapperville Lives!

    Seems the Rockshifter must have sold* his pup concept to Dubai who thought it best to build it in Bosnia … (*obviously more money than sense)

    http://www.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/bizarre-7-billion-plan-to-build-new-city/story-e6frfqbr-1227571134933

  119. Neil o Sydney permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:28 pm

    Turnbull has given a reason for investing overseas.

    Turnbull said he deliberately chose offshore investments so that he would not have any conflicts of interest in Australia. For example, many Australian funds invest in Telstra, which would have been a potential conflict when he was communications minister.

  120. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:28 pm

    “So I ask again, why do it?

    So I tell you again – so he can invest in a particular hedge fund. All hedge funds are different – different assets, different management, different strategy. Given that half the hedge funds in the world are Cayman, chances are that if you decide to invest in that sector you will invest in a Cayman fund.

    Shit TB, if you decided to invest in a hedge fund, chances are you would invest in a Cayman fund. The choice is about the management, assets and strategy. Once you decide that, jurisdiction is an issue. Given that most hedge fund investors understand the Cayman jurisdictional issues, they would be more than happy to invest in Cayman.

    The ALP attacks on taxation issues have been characterised by dribbling ignorance of the tax laws. Unsurprising given their main purpose is to score political points. The United Voice report was a joke.

  121. October 16, 2015 12:29 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  122. October 16, 2015 12:30 pm

    Shit TB, if you decided to invest in a hedge fund, chances are you would invest in a Cayman fund.*

    *Disclaimer: as long as you have a lazy $1 million as the minimum entry deposit.

  123. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:32 pm

    Given that most hedge fund investors understand the Cayman jurisdictional issues, they would be more than happy to invest in Cayman.

    Of course they would, but then, most hedge fund investors are unprincipled fuckwits who put the dollar above EVERYTHING else.

    They also are not leading a grubmint who is simultaneously attempting to protect multi national companies as they stash our cash away in a similar manner.

    so that he would not have any conflicts of interest in Australia.

    He didn’t think to hard on that then, did he, since we have been having this debate for some time now.

  124. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:34 pm

    That Prof M Davis tweet is what made me make the comment about ‘context’ reb

    I had gone looking for it, but …….. I’m stressed at work today you ….. legend 😉

  125. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:37 pm

    Nothing much has changed since – our security agencies undermine and work against so-called’ leftwing’ governments. The AFP still does it.

    Asio chief defied Gough Whitlam’s order to cut ties with the CIA in 1974:
    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/16/asio-chief-defied-gough-whitlams-order-cut-ties-cia-1974

    …Whitlam – hostile to US spy bases in Australia and angy with the CIA’s undermining of leftwing administrations, including Chile’s Allende government in 1973 – effectively forced the Washington-Canberra intelligence relationship underground until the dismissal of his government in late 1975.

    The decision by the director general of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation, Peter Barbour, to ignore Whitlam’s directive is revealed in the latest volume of Asio’s official history by historian and former army officer John Blaxland…

  126. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:43 pm

    “Of course they would, but then, most hedge fund investors are unprincipled fuckwits who put the dollar above EVERYTHING else.”

    WTF???

    I should have expected that sort of drivel from a CFMEU arse-licker.

  127. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 12:49 pm

    Have you ever told us what it is you do for a crust sb? Just wondering 🙂

  128. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 1:28 pm

    It’s not just Malcolm Turnbull. Your super smells like the Caymans, too
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/16/its-not-just-malcolm-turnbull-your-super-smells-like-the-caymans-too

    …The prime minister and his wife Lucy are very, very wealthy indeed, with a net worth around $200m. They have a complicated portfolio of investments, some obscure and complicated enough that they would baffle more than a few people who work in financial services – think “twice-geared hedge fund” or “high yield corporate bond ETF”.

    This is the point: the wealthier you are, the more elaborate the schemes you end up involved in and the more they are worth to you. Many rich individuals do end up creating entities of their own in tax havens and engaging in other arrangements to magically reduce their taxable income…

    Dear Scott Morrison: stop waffling and learn to master your brief, quickly
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/commentisfree/2015/oct/16/dear-scott-morrison-stop-waffling-and-learn-to-master-your-brief-quickly

    …When asked in question time this week about the fall in government revenue between the 2014 and 2015 budgets, Morrison fluffed and babbled about the “strong management of our budget” – whatever that means – and in the next breath spoke of expenditure growth and some of the reasons why under the Coalition government spending is near the levels usually reserved for recessions…

  129. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 1:32 pm

  130. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 1:45 pm

    Turnbull’s investment was via a managed fund – ie an investor gives money to a fund manager, which uses a Caymans entity in its structure.

    But, it is public knowledge that the fund is using that. That’s like hiring a hitman, and claiming your hands are clean.

    So, not much like super, where super companies have their fingers in many pies, not just the Caymans. This particular “managed” fund was chosen FOR its location, as talcum already told us.

    Nice defense, but no wiping of the hands yet.

    As for morrison in QT, gorog had a good article on that. Whilst I like watching morrison squirm, he has a point

    I’m not a big fan of politics made into a trivia contest.
    ……
    Pop quizzes are all well and good, but if the assumptions behind the questions are counter to the ALP’s own policies, they are best to leave them alone.

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/10/16/comment-question-time-turns-trivia-contest

  131. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 1:49 pm

    That tweet highlights the “context” of Labors attack on turnbull ao (with the added bonus of ‘he’s a tax evader’ thrown in I’ll grant)

    I read further into that Lenore Taylor article, and it turned out to be not so bad as I had imagined. She draws the link herself, but still seems to ignore that is the link Labor are drawing. Well, either way, the message is getting out.

    The sheer pervasiveness of aggressive tax schemes is one factor in the ethical blind spot that exists about tax.

  132. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 1:50 pm

    [Warren Buffett]
    A Minimum Tax for the Wealthy
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/opinion/buffett-a-minimum-tax-for-the-wealthy.html?_r=0

    …Additionally, we need Congress, right now, to enact a minimum tax on high incomes. I would suggest 30 percent of taxable income between $1 million and $10 million, and 35 percent on amounts above that. A plain and simple rule like that will block the efforts of lobbyists, lawyers and contribution-hungry legislators to keep the ultrarich paying rates well below those incurred by people with income just a tiny fraction of ours. Only a minimum tax on very high incomes will prevent the stated tax rate from being eviscerated by these warriors for the wealthy.

    Above all, we should not postpone these changes in the name of “reforming” the tax code. True, changes are badly needed. We need to get rid of arrangements like “carried interest” that enable income from labor to be magically converted into capital gains. And it’s sickening that a Cayman Islands mail drop can be central to tax manoeuvring by wealthy individuals and corporations…

  133. October 16, 2015 1:59 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  134. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 16, 2015 2:04 pm

    libs, the best friend people smugglers ever had. I mean, shit, nowadays, they are actually paying them to ply their trade.

    TomR

    You really are a nasty person. Tying to shift the blame onto the Coalition for something Labor did. The people smugglers cannot wait for the next ALP govt so they can start making millions of dollars like they did under Labor.

    Every asylum seeker death, drowning, rape, murder, assault which happened since 2007 is the responsibility of the ALP and everybody who voted for them in 2007.

  135. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 16, 2015 2:19 pm

    “Have you ever told us what it is you do for a crust sb? Just wondering “

    No. You say what you do first!

    “But, it is public knowledge that the fund is using that. That’s like hiring a hitman, and claiming your hands are clean.”

    Idiot! The sources you are quoting are so dumb it is like hiring a hitman to shoot yourself.

    Explain how the fund is avoiding tax.

    As I said above, an Australian entity earning foreign income and distributing that income to foreign investors will not pay Australian tax nor will the foreign investors. A Cayman entity in the same position has the same tax outcome.

  136. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 16, 2015 2:25 pm

    The same journos who spent years speculating on who painted JGs porch 20 years ago, have decided in 5 seconds that Mal’s not a tax rorter

    Reb

    I posted a comment that said why Turnbull invested overseas. It was to avoid a conflict of interest. If he had invested in Australia and Telstra shares doubled in price he could be in trouble. You cannot invest an an Australian fund without having some Telstra shares.

    You can be sure that if Turnbull as Communication Minister had money in an Australian fund with Telstra shares the media would be all over that.

  137. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 2:38 pm

    Explain how the fund is avoiding tax.

    [hint] “newrepublic “

  138. October 16, 2015 2:40 pm

    So Neil, your “argument” for want of a better word, is that Turnbull shouldn’t invest in any Australian shares because if they go up, he could be accused of a “conflict of interest?”

    Perhaps in that case, we should only have PMs who live overseas too, to avoid any conflict of interest in their real estate investments.

  139. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 2:45 pm

  140. October 16, 2015 2:46 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  141. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 16, 2015 2:46 pm

    So Neil, your “argument” for want of a better word, is that Turnbull shouldn’t invest in any Australian shares because if they go up, he could be accused of a “conflict of interest?

    Yep.

    Actually it was not my argument it was Turnbulls. As Communication Minister he could get into murky waters if he had investments in Telstra shares and they doubled in price.

    It is a possibility.

  142. October 16, 2015 2:56 pm

    Yes, but now that he’s the Minister for All of Australia – doesn’t it follow that he shouldn’t be allowed to own anything here – lest he be accused of having a conflict of interest in, you know; Australia…?

  143. October 16, 2015 2:57 pm

    Maybe we could get Silvio Berlusconi to be our PM. I think he could be quite good.

  144. TB Queensland permalink
    October 16, 2015 3:29 pm

    No. You say what you do first!

    TR, sb didn’t tell me when I fell for that line …

    Just sayin’ …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Perhaps in that case, we should only have PMs who live overseas too, to avoid any conflict of interest in their real estate investments.

    Or if he is a multi millionaire we don’t pay him his salary and perqs … during and after his tenure … y’know, do it for your country …

    WTF do people want $200 million?

    As for the Cayman shit … all the money sent overseas from Australia is sucked out of the economy …

    I think I prefer to believe Warren Buffet than sb … sorry about that sb … but …

    And it’s sickening that a Cayman Islands mail drop can be central to tax manoeuvring by wealthy individuals and corporations… … makes more sense to me than …

    an Australian entity earning foreign income and distributing that income to foreign investors will not pay Australian tax nor will the foreign investors. A Cayman entity in the same position has the same tax outcome.

    As an aside The Minister and I lived and worked in PNG for 12 months and one day … way back in 1988 … had we left within 12 months we would have had to pay Australian income tax AS WELL AS PNG income tax … (we were lucky to have a colleague who had been unlucky and told us)

    Works well for the rich and the plebs, hey?

  145. TB Queensland permalink
    October 16, 2015 3:31 pm

    Maybe we could get Silvio Berlusconi to be our PM. I think he could be quite good.

    I think we already have … by any other name?

  146. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 16, 2015 3:46 pm

    Tom R the New Republic article is unenlightening. The reason you are stuck on stupid is that you uncritically accept that BS.

    Basically it is saying that the US doesn’t tax foreign profits until they are repatriated. Well, no shit Sherlock – this has been a design feature of the US tax system for at least the last twenty years. The NR approach would make every country with a lower corporate tax rate than the US (which is pretty much all countries) a tax haven since any company incorporated elsewhere is paying less tax than if it was incorporated in the US.

    For example, an Australian company would be taxed at 30%. According to NR, It is obviously a tax avoider by choosing not to incorporate in the US where it would pay 35%.

    Also, the article about Romney is irrelevant to Turdball. The type of fund he invested in typically has a life of 5 years during which time they carry out their strategy and distribute their profits. They are not places to park money. Rather they are risky investments which provide the opportunity of a high return as well as a greater chance of loss.

  147. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 16, 2015 3:56 pm

    TB, if you prefer opinion top fact, I can’t help that. Also, you have always been very direct about your work experience which is all well and good. I’m still working and have a bit to lose by going public.

  148. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 4:23 pm

    Also, the article about Romney is irrelevant to Turdball.

    wow, it took you two days to come up with that. Sorry, it is entirely relevant.

    It explains that income tax is not the only tax companies (or funds) are liable for, and as such, turnball claiming very specifically that he pays the full amount of his income tax ignores the company tax and regulatory fees his managed fund would be required to pay IF it were in Australia.

    talcum is making use of an overseas tax haven available only to the very rich to return (potentially) better moneys for himself by offshoring his money and taking it, and any associated company taxes and fees a similar fund in Australia would return back into Australia’s economy and tax take, overseas.

    He will become richer, and maybe even pay a little extra personal tax, but the taxpayer misses out on those investment taxes and fees from being fed back into our system, and then the likes of Malcayman argues that those earning less must pay more because there isn’t enough tax take in our system. Yes, I know THEY argue we spend too much, but that is patently false.

    Our tax take is dwindling, and it arguably largely due to exactly this type of Malcayman tax haven that this is happening.

  149. Too Big To Succeed permalink
    October 16, 2015 4:28 pm

    It is a possibility.

    Getting taken for a ride/to the cleaners is a possibility, too, I guess.

  150. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 4:31 pm

    As for the Cayman shit … all the money sent overseas from Australia is sucked out of the economy …

    Jesus, I ramble on, and TB get’s it in one fucken sentence!

    I reckon it must be beer O clock!

    TR, sb didn’t tell me when I fell for that line …

    So, he didn’t show you his after you showed him yours 😉

    I really don’t care, it just fit in nicely cos he got kinda defensive when I remarked, perhaps a tad adversely, on one particular field endeavour.

    I’ve mentioned many times what it is I do, I just don’t dwell on it. And I won’t now :developer: 😉

  151. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 4:35 pm

    The same journos who spent years speculating on who painted JGs porch 20 years ago, have decided in 5 seconds that Mal’s not a tax rorter.

    The best part is they didn’t have too think about it either time.

  152. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 4:46 pm

    Yes, the whole debate has been that the wealthy tax avoiders/minimisers should be paying more than they do [which is very little] before expecting the PAYE captive taxpayers and pensioners to be ‘reformed.’

    We keep hearing that if they get taxed more they’ll go offshore, well it appears that they are already offshore!

    The reason they don’t want the public knowing how much they earn and how little tax they pay is to avoid this debate where fingers get pointed and they are told to contribute more financially to our society in which they are reaping great profits and subsidies. Don’t want politics of envy? well don’t keep screaming for the restofus to have reduced incomes through wages, conditions, import restrictions and welfare reforms while the big buggers [the ones with most of the wealth] remain untouched and continue benefiting with even more relaxed company tax policies.

    Apply the blow torch to all or get rejected at the next election.

  153. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 4:49 pm

    I think i’ve mentioned what I do

    reb does something in an office and he hates his annoying colleagues [although he seems busier and ?happier in his new job].

  154. Tom R permalink
    October 16, 2015 4:52 pm

    The reason they don’t want the public knowing how much they earn and how little tax they pay is to avoid this debate where fingers get pointed and they are told to contribute more financially to our society in which they are reaping great profits and subsidies.

    And the saddest part is how the journos as one band together to shut it down with their “class warfare” mantra, even though the large majority of them would be on a pretty average wage.

    Things you gotta do to keep a job when the owner is one of the ones exploiting the system.

  155. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 5:12 pm

    Talking Point: Worker welfare is in the fine print
    http://www.themercury.com.au/news/opinion/talking-point-worker-welfare-is-in-the-fine-print/story-fnj4f64i-1227570720694

    …Tens of thousands of Australians are already confronting the economic reality about how they are going to make a living now that a number of Australia’s primary sources (minerals, gas and oil) of income have begun to contract quite dramatically? What now? TPP?

    Point of fact, American and Australian manufacturing workers are now facing a grim and brutal tomorrow. Labour intensive jobs chase the bottom dollar. In truth, American and Australian workers simply cost too much.

    Whether it is making clothes, furniture, autos or even steel, international corporations are obsessed with finding workers willing to work for as little as possible. No unions. No pensions. No benefits. Few environmental regulations.

    Too many of our political leaders have been bought and paid for by the financially powerful and by special interests groups…

  156. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 5:37 pm

  157. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 16, 2015 7:42 pm

    Today @TurnbullMalcolm’s Government has gross debt (CGS on issue) of $403b, up $130b since the election

    And when the Coalition tried to do something about it they were called mean and nasty.

  158. TB Queensland permalink
    October 16, 2015 8:22 pm

    I’m still working and have a bit to lose by going public.

    I accept that … I was just warning TR … 🙂

    BTW … we all have a “bit to lose” by going public … even when we are “retired” … and I’ve suffered/accepted the potshots from commenters that come and go from this blog …

    The only reason I’ve been “direct” is because I believe people should know where my comments “come from” … my “reasoning” – if you will … comes from my background as an adult learning facilitator …

    You could at least reveal your field of endeavour … ?

    Well at least confirm my suspicions … 😉

  159. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 9:16 pm

    By the skin of his dentures: Murdoch just barely retains control of News Corp
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2015/10/16/by-the-skin-of-his-dentures-murdoch-just-barely-retains-control-of-news-corp/

    …Despite what you may have read in The Australian this morning about a “clear majority” voting for the company voting structure that favours the Murdochs, it was much closer than that.

    This week at News Corp’s AGM, a bare 1.792 million votes — or 1% of the 177.46 million votes cast — is all that separated the Murdoch clan from an embarrassing shareholder rejection of its dual-class voting structure, which cements the Murdoch family’s control of the newspaper publisher, pay TV and online real estate group. And from the voting for the re-election of the 12-person board it is clear that without the Murdoch family’s holding of more than 789 million shares, or 39% of the vote, every director, including Rupert Murdoch, would have been defeated…

  160. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 16, 2015 10:24 pm

    I think we already have … by any other name?

    Tb has turned into a troll!

  161. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 16, 2015 10:33 pm

    reb does something in an office

    He’s a non value adding overhead.

  162. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 11:21 pm

    And when the Coalition tried to do something about it they were called mean and nasty.

    It’s what they chose to do that made them mean and nasty and caused the entire country to go against them. It also ensured abbott was a dead duck PM.

  163. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 16, 2015 11:34 pm

    Where is the Australian Bernie Sanders?
    http://antonyloewenstein.com/2015/10/16/on-bernie-sanders-and-ending-privatised-prisons-and-detention-camps/

  164. October 17, 2015 9:22 am

    “He’s a non value adding overhead.”

    And that’s one of my stronger points.

  165. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 11:11 am

    THE AUTRALIAN GOVERNMENT IS STILL SICK!!

    The federal government has secretly flown a pregnant refugee out of Australia to escape a court injunction, chartering a jet to take her back to Nauru and the detention centre where she was raped.

    In an extraordinary effort that appears to be an attempt escape the reach of Australian courts, the government on Friday swiftly moved the 23-year-old Somalian, who is pregnant as a result of being raped on Nauru, from Villawood detention centre in Sydney.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/16/australia-secretly-flies-pregnant-asylum-seeker-back-to-nauru-before-hearing

  166. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 17, 2015 11:18 am

    THE AUTRALIAN GOVERNMENT IS STILL SICK!!

    Selective morality. Where were you when this was happening?

    https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/asylum-seekers-refugees-and-human-rights-snapshot-report/2-onshore-detention-and

    Between January 2011 and February 2013 there were 4,313 incidents of actual, threatened and attempted serious self-harm recorded in immigration detention facilities in Australia.[73] In the 2012–2013 financial year there were 846 incidents of self-harm across the immigration detention network.[74]

    Between 1 July 2010 and 20 June 2013, there were 12 deaths in immigration detention facilities. Coroners have found that six of those deaths were suicides.[75]

    50,000 people were locked up by TB of Queensland.

  167. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 11:20 am

    Ooops … I was so angry (as we trolls tend to get) and just wacked up the story above … then saw KL’s comment …

    I agree with Julian B … Brandis was incompetent if he allowed it, and incompetent if he wasn’t on top of his game – and didn’t know what Dopey Dutton was up to!

    I will wait for an intelligent decision from the WCP now in charge of a heartless government that flaunts the Australia’s legal system … I can only imagine what Nauru is like having lived in PNG … but I can assure you if you’ve never lived on a third world Pacific Island (no not been to one for a holiday) … then you will have no idea of how crude these countries are …

    Nothing has changed in the Liberal Government … we’ve just moved from a poor bastard who can’t pay off his mortgage, to a super rich prick who could pay off everybody’s fkn mortgage …

    No game changing here …

    Hypocrites all!

  168. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 17, 2015 11:23 am

    Hypocrites all!

    Absolutely and you are the worst of all.

    Every human being on Manus Island was locked up by TB of Queensland.

  169. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 11:24 am

    50,000 people were locked up by TB of Queensland.

    Where were you when I was CRITICISING the LABOR government for offshore detention?

    Dickwit© …

    Selective morality. That’s the difference between us … I criticise all Dickwits©!

  170. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 11:26 am

    Every human being on Manus Island was locked up by TB of Queensland.

    Read the above you intellectual pygmy …

  171. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 17, 2015 11:29 am

    Get stuffed.

    Everybody with any brains knew what would happen if Rudd was elected.

    In an unjust, immoral and corrupt world John Howard got it right. We stop the boats and we take our refugees from UNHCR camps.

  172. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 17, 2015 12:29 pm

    Ooops … I was so angry (as we trolls tend to get) and just wacked up the story above … then saw KL’s comment …

    I know TB, do we think these people are going to be safe once they are allowed to roam freely on their island prison? I’ve worked in third world conditions and I know the conditions are violent, brutal and completely unsafe for all, not just women.

    I think emma alberici was on orders to toe the government line, she was pretty aggressive with the lawyer, shame she’s not like that when she interviews govt. ministers especially dutton.

    The compounding of indignities and insults to the poor woman. I couldn’t bear it if it happened to one of my daughters. Remember, this woman has no control over any aspect of her life, it is nauru and australian governments who decide everything that affects her.
    23 yo I believe.

    First the rape was so violent that she was found at the scene unconscious, never got any medical care, then just faded away [prob from head injury] and never left her bed, she lost 10 kgs during that time. Eventually told people that she wanted an abortion when realised she was pregnant, that was refused until the publicity forced the govt to do something, by this time she is over 12 wks pregnant.

    She [her name is Abyan] gets flown in and then flown back [at enormous cost] on a chartered flight to avoid the court case. A good point was made by george newhouse, that she has no control over any of her movements, she is in the dept’s care and control – why didn’t they ensure these things were arranged for her? She didn’t turn up for the abortion appointment but she needed and required pre-procedure counselling to ensure she was fully aware of her situation, also why didn’t they take her to her specified appointment?.

    George has started a petition to malcolm turnbull

    This young girl was raped and left stranded – bring her to Australia for urgent treatment
    https://www.change.org/p/malcolm-turnbull-this-young-girl-was-raped-and-left-stranded-bring-her-to-australia-for-urgent-treatment

    Human rights lawyer George Newhouse wins defamation case against News Corp’s Andrew Bolt
    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/human-rights-lawyer-george-newhouse-wins-defamation-case-against-news-corps-andrew-bolt-20150402-1mdkpc.html#ixzz3omchc5vi

  173. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 12:34 pm

    Turnbull’s Conflict of Interest!

    If Turnbull’s “defence” was that he couldn’t invest in Australia because there may a conflict of interest as Communications Minister …

    Doesn’t he now have a greater conflict of interest as Prime Minister by investing his money overseas when he has to curtail big business investing overseas to avoid tax in Australia …

    $200 million sucked out of the economy rather than churning here is depriving average Australians the use of Turnbull’s fortunes …

    The Multiplier Effect works with silver bum money just as much as it does with our smelly stuff …

  174. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 12:57 pm

    Signed @ Change.org, KL … thought you might be interested in the reason I put …

    “I’m ashamed to call myself Australian!”

  175. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 17, 2015 12:58 pm

    …Doesn’t he now have a greater conflict of interest as Prime Minister by investing his money overseas when he has to curtail big business investing overseas to avoid tax in Australia …

    Yes, he should recuse himself from any policy direction and decisions regarding wealthy australians and their investments since he has a personal, financial stake in the outcomes.

  176. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 17, 2015 1:15 pm

  177. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 17, 2015 1:24 pm

  178. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 17, 2015 1:26 pm

  179. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 17, 2015 1:52 pm

    The Nauruan government’s Australian public relations firm, Mercer PR of Qld went underground after releasing personal, private information regarding the Nauru rape victim. They locked their twitter & facebook accounts and closed their blogs to protect their own privacy. They refused to respond to media requests – they gave to themselves the privacy and protection that they denied their victim.
    The same company has as clients the Qld LNP, the Hillsong Church and the Qld Taxi Industry.

    The man paid to protect Nauru’s image
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/immigration/2015/10/17/the-man-paid-protect-naurus-image/14450004002512

    …Reporters wanting to cover the situation on Nauru are hostage to a capricious and expensive visa process: a non-refundable $8000 application that two years ago cost just $200. Meanwhile, selected local journalists are lately allowed into the camps to “reinstate balance to the story”. Disregard the fog of media releases and crisis management, and the message is clear: You cannot visit nor speak to the people who work here, you cannot check the claims of mistreatment and rape, but listen to us and we will relieve you of your concerns…

  180. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 17, 2015 3:31 pm

    I like Tony Windsor’s political insight.

    Waiting for delivery from PM Malcolm Turnbull:
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2015/10/17/waiting-delivery-pm-malcolm-turnbull/14450004002500

    …The electorate is crying out for a different way of doing politics, and Turnbull has answered that call with the correct rhetoric. But the real test will come from delivery…

    …Turnbull has marketed himself as someone wanting open conversations on complex issues with the Australian people, not wanting to take them for granted. He is, in his vision, a person who wants to take the people with him.
    In fact, one of reasons for the removal of Abbott was that the days of slogan bogan were over – this was to be the age of “listening”, moderation in language and deed, and compassion in nature.

    The public is accepting of this offer. In fact, they are willing it to happen.

    …An Abbott government would have gone for the throat on a Labor- and union-bashing rant of anti-trade racial discrimination. Turnbull’s position will give us a glimpse of the future. It will show if he is a leader who wants to deliver solutions to issues rather than play the traditional political game of finding and fostering division. It will also provide a window into who actually controls the Prime Minister’s Office…

    …If the prime minister maintains the current Direct Action approach and is unable to display the leadership of which he is capable, the light will flash on who controls who…

  181. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 5:30 pm

    Waiting for delivery from PM Malcolm Turnbull:

    Three weeks and counting … still no change … still poor decisions (see above)

    Nothing has changed

    Nothing is new

    Hypocrites all!

    I prefer to live in a society rather than die for an economy …

  182. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 17, 2015 6:48 pm

    Let’s just hope Shorten becomes PM then.

  183. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 8:43 pm

    Solar power is such a drain on society* … three years since we paid $6000 for our system … we now owe $631 … and haven’t paid an electricity bill since … and because we get a return AND don’t pay a bill we will own it this year … from 2016 we earn any credits we get as profit …

    When returns reach zero … ie we may have to pay for electricity, we plan to be running a Tesla Power Wall (or hopefully better technology) battery system completely off the grid …

    Yeah that coal is was really good stuff …

    This is where I grew up …

    I left in 1960 … and returned in 1997 … the difference was astounding … from black, sandstone homes to clean golden sandstone … the mills closed down in the 70’s/80’s …

    Coal is not good for society … renewables are …

    But as someone recently pointed to me … you can’t make a profit from renewable energy … its free!

    Sarc alert*

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Let’s just hope Shorten becomes PM then.

    Let’s be clear … ToM … (BTW, is sniping the same as being a troll?)

    I’m not an admirer of Shorten … nor Turnbull … but I am certainly not a fan of the policies the LibNit Government is still attempting to foist upon my society … just to feed the corporate bloodsuckers who pay donate to them … government is not a profit making organisation nor concept but our democracy has been high-jacked by Robber Baron $$ …

    eg Coal mines still receive more government subsidies than renewable energy … actually a manufacturing industry …

    Any government who tackles just two of these issues in the next election will get my vote …

    ☼ Negative Gearing

    ☼ Trust Funds

    ☼ Superannuation Tax Breaks for the Rich

    ☼ Multinational Tax Havens – Double Irish/Dutch Sandwich

    ☼ Post Pollie Perqs

    I suspect my big red texta will come out again this election … (oh yes it did!)

  184. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 8:50 pm

    So who do you believe?

    The federal government is insisting a pregnant refugee changed her mind about having an abortion in Australia after being raped in Nauru.

    The immigration minister, Peter Dutton, said reports to the contrary were a “fabrication”, while the prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, said the 23-year-old was returned to Nauru because she decided against the procedure.

    But Turnbull was wrong in claiming the Somali woman changed her mind about an abortion, a refugee advocate said.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/17/turnbull-is-wrong-to-claim-refugee-changed-her-mind-about-abortion-advocates-say

    Well I was taught (and well) that nothing in business, or government, happens by coincidence …

    I admit my prejudice – Dutton is a Dope … a nasty one …

  185. TB Queensland permalink
    October 17, 2015 8:55 pm

    DUTTON’S DOWNFALL!

    Comment was sought from the immigration minister, Peter Dutton. Previous requests for information on Abyan’s case from the Department of Immigration and Border Protection, and from the minister’s office, received no response.

    On Thursday, the immigration minister, Peter Dutton, said there was a “racket” among refugees and asylum seekers on Nauru seeking to come to Australia for medical care, so they could then demand their asylum claims be processed in Australia.

    “The racket that’s been going on here is that people, at the margins, come to Australia from Nauru, the government’s then injuncted, we can’t send them back to Nauru and there are over 200 people in that category.

    “Now, as I say, we want to provide support to the Nauruans. We want to provide a safe environment, a humane environment for people, but we aren’t going to be taken for mugs.”

    Turncoat should have purged the bloody lot of Abbott’s Kapitan’s Picks … ruthless fascists …

  186. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 17, 2015 9:17 pm

    ruthless fascists …

    All the people on Nauru were locked up by the ALP.

  187. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 17, 2015 10:58 pm

    And it should be stated for the one millionth time that this whole sorry mess was caused by the ALP and the people who voted for them in 2007.

    In an unjust and complicated world John Howard got it right with the Pacific Solution. We stop the boats and take our refugees from UNHCR camps. It is the best option in a range of bad options.

    Labor spent $11B housing 50,000 boat people and the Coalition would have spent several billion more. What a waste of money.

  188. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 18, 2015 1:35 am

    Get these people out of the public schools [get them out of all schools].
    Why aren’t parents suing the schools for this rubbish?

    Be prepared to die for God’, kids told in state school classes:
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/education/be-prepared-to-die-for-god-kids-told-in-state-school-classes/story-fn59nlz9-1227572155005

    …The accompanying teachers’ manual, titled You: An Introduction, says students should be taught to “submit our bodies to God’s will … even by dying for our faith if necessary’’.

    The lesson plan says students should think about their “lies, ­deceit, manipulation, anger, lust, jealousy, hatred and worship of ourselves’’: “It’s a heavy weight we cannot bear, and one day we will be held accountable for it and will pay for it with our death.’’

    …The teaching guide links menstruation and sickness to sin. “Now, being sick or having your period isn’t a sin — but it reminds us that the body and therefore all of humanity now live with the curse of sin,’’ it says.

    Religious teachers, who are usually volunteers, are instructed to read a passage from the Bible that states “wives should submit to their husbands in everything’’.

    The teaching manual elaborates that “wives are to submit to their husbands’ loving leadership’’, while husbands must “care for her needs and die for her if necessary’’…

  189. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 1:11 pm

    Get these people out of the public schools [get them out of all schools].
    Why aren’t parents suing the schools for this rubbish?

    Y’know, I’m starting to understand why the older generations that have gone before get so frustrated with the generations that follow … everything seems to get “unlearned” and particularly religion that just keeps resurging with the same shite aimed at the young and vulnerable …

    Here’s a question did the shift from integration of immigrants, asylum seekers and refugees to multiculturalism lead to radicalisation of young people in cultural enclaves?

    I see Gerard Henderson thinks the RC on Trade Unions is a load of crap too … he actually supports Shorten!

  190. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 18, 2015 1:14 pm

    Shorten “has a case to answer”, in my opinion.

    I recall at the time that the Eastlink deal was thought to be dodgy by some quite knowledgable people that I respect.

    The sworn evidence supports those opinions.

  191. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 18, 2015 1:27 pm

    Must be hard to spell check with all the cuts these days, but more on malcolm’s investments which I do agree with.

    The PM is no ordinary taxpayer, which is why clarification is neeed:
    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/the-pm-is-no-ordinary-taxpayer-which-is-why-clarification-is-neeed-20151016-gkaqmn.html#ixzz3osk1Am00

    …If Turnbull’s conflict of interest argument is valid, does that mean every other minister who has investments in Australia has potential conflicts of interest? This justification looks pretty weak, Malcolm.

    There are two main reasons for investing in a hedge fund in the Cayman Islands. The first real reason is the low tax or no tax rate on income earned in or often through that jurisdiction. Associated with this is the fact that overseas income earned in other jurisdictions can perhaps also be routed to places like the Cayman Islands tax free. Double Irish Dutch sandwiches come to mind. This means the capital fund in the Caymans may grow unhindered by tax anywhere in the world unlike, for example, investments in Australia.

    Of course, the income on this capital may be taxed to Australian residents depending on the nature of the income and the type of vehicle through which it is earned. I don’t have the information available to me to make an analysis about the tax arrangements Turnbull is involved in. Least of all can we judge the validity of his statement that he complies with all Australian tax laws and pays the appropriate amount of Australian income tax on the Cayman Islands’ investments.
    That may very well be true; the real question is what level of Australian tax the Prime Minister is paying on that income and what he would have paid if the investments had been undertaken in Australia. Is it an effective tax rate of zero, or 5 per cent, or 10 per cent or 20 per cent? The arrangement might be legal but is it just?…

  192. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 18, 2015 2:08 pm

    Press Gallery’s ‘Cult of Malcolm’ makes Apple fanbois look like amateurs:
    http://nofibs.com.au/2015/10/18/press-gallerys-cult-of-malcolm-makes-apple-fanbois-look-like-amateurs-yathinkn-calls-bs/

    …Bitching about Turnbull living in a mansion is politics of envy. Raising the issue of your Prime Minister – the man who ultimately decides on who will be taxed in this nation and how much tax they will pay – CHOOSING to invest in an offshore Tax Haven like the Caymans is not even close to politics of envy. Shame punters are not aware of just how inappropriate this action by our Prime Minister is due to the current Press Gallery love fest with Mr Turnbull…

    …As it seems most journalists in the Press Gallery have forgotten, I will remind them that it was just over 12 months ago at the Brisbane G20 the participants, including Australia, said they would “crack down on International Tax Havens”. We also had a ‘Budget Emergency’ back in the day too? Considering our current budget deficit, instead of lauding Mr Turnbull for admitting he is rich (yes they did, go figure!), they should be connecting the dots. Perhaps questioning, if due to these ‘tax haven’ choices, could we actually trust Mr Turnbull to crack down on them, making them pay their taxes so ours did not have to be raised to pick up that burden, as we were promised only 12 short months ago?…

  193. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 2:43 pm

    Shorten “has a case to answer”, in my opinion.

    Well that’s it then … all that money on a RC and ToM knew all along …

    The sworn evidence supports those opinions.

    Link for “evidence” as opposed to “statements” …

    GUFFAW!

  194. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 2:52 pm

    If Malcolm chased Multi-nationals & hedge funds to pay tax in Australia, would that reduce his own income?

    AND

    … could we actually trust Mr Turnbull to crack down on them, …

    Matches my argument earlier re a new “conflict of interest” now Turncoat is PM, I believe, KL …

    Turncoat is getting the same smooth ride as Abbott … and still nowt’s new, lass …

    The press gallery are like teachers … losing the plot core foundation of their professions (mainly because of poor learning outcomes, processes and lazy, incompetent staff in unis) …

  195. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 2:54 pm

    Oh, and media ownership … simply chasing $$$ … rather than the truth in a story …

  196. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 2:57 pm

    And here’s a classic example of how poorly trained journalists and editors are these days …

    You’ll pick it up straight away ToM … 😉

    She says the filmmaking process amounted to be a “shocking realisation” of the insidiousness …

  197. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 18, 2015 3:44 pm

    …If Turnbull’s conflict of interest argument is valid, does that mean every other minister who has investments in Australia has potential conflicts of interest? This justification looks pretty weak, Malcolm.

    I think the answer to that is obvious. Of course every minister who has investments in Australia has a potential conflict of interest.

    Good on the Journalist for bringing up Turnbulls statement. Is Turnbull lying? Most probably not. But he could be stretching the truth to its limit.

    But what is he to do? No matter where he puts his money, his enemies (and that includes me a little bit) would find something they could find fault with.

  198. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 18, 2015 3:51 pm

    “Well that’s it then … all that money on a RC and ToM knew all along …

    Everyone in the IR club knew there was something behind the Eastlink agreement, I’m not in that club but I know a few people who are.

    Some have even given evidence at the royal commission.

  199. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 7:14 pm

    Everyone in the IR club …

    I’d guess that’s a good description … the IR club …

    Some have made statements at the royal commission.

    You do have problems with “evidence” and “statements”, ToM …

    (Recycle Binned: “even given evidence”)

    BTW, you do realise that if misleading invoices submitted to companies of the size we are talking about were actually PAID by those companies then they are complicit …

    The Accounts Dept. … didn’t challenge them? Did they?

  200. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 18, 2015 8:26 pm

    Sure they’re complicit. When a union official offers a deal that will save $$$$hundreds of million$$$ and all a business has to do is approve a few dodgy invoices for $$thousands, some businesses will figure out how to get the invoices approved.

  201. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 18, 2015 8:32 pm

    The ‘IR club’?

    Why don’t we cease our IR system completely? Workers and employers can organise their own. Lets call it quits to having a lop-sided system where the unions are constantly under attack and defending themselves from employer groups and government while the employer groups have free reign to do whatever they like, lets call it quits to our IR system completely.

    IR hasn’t worked for workers, the 1% keep getting richer & richer, the inequality gap widens further, yet employers keep wanting more and more, they won’t be happy until we are working for $2/hr.

    Lets make all payments illegal, business can’t pay unions and business also can’t pay political parties, lobbyists and governments either. At least then it’s an equal playing field. No more legislation binding unions, workers or business, let’s have that industrial war that the employer groups want.

    [quiggin]
    http://johnquiggin.com/2015/10/17/populism-and-patrimonialism-crosspost-from-crooked-timber/#more-13539

    …So, taxing the 1 per cent more makes sense. I responded a little while ago to a piece trying to argue increasing the top marginal tax rate would make no difference to inequality. And while I was drafting this post, the NY Times came out with an article that reached broadly the same conclusion as mine.

    There’s nothing inherently ludicrous in the suggestion that the very rich should pay most or all of the costs of sustaining a system that benefits them so greatly[^1]. And, as in the 1920s, the very rich are different from everyone else. Their wealth is derived primarily from capital, or from control over capital (as business owners or from the financial sector). And, while most of the current cohort of ultra-wealthy did not inherit large fortunes, that’s an inevitable consequence of the fact that there weren’t many large fortunes to inherit until recently. As Piketty demonstrates, a society dominated by large accumulations of wealth will inevitably one in which inheritance, rather than effort, education or talent, determines life outcomes…

    Wonder if we’ll be able to apply for back-pay for the last 24 years … 🙂

    hehe, that’s a labour of love TB.

    …Oh, and media ownership … simply chasing $$$ … rather than the truth in a story…

    And the boss’s delicate sensibilities on the subject. After all, rupert runs huge tax dodging, profit shifting, foreign banking, negative gearing enterprises himself. He would be the biggest ‘class war/envy merchant around. His minions would be ordered to go to war on it.

    If there is such a ‘strong moral case’ for coal to lift people out of energy poverty, there’s an even stronger moral case to give it to them for free.

    Nauru rapes: ‘There is a war on women’:
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/immigration/2015/08/22/nauru-rapes-there-war-women/14401656002263

  202. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 8:37 pm

    Did I ever mention that agribusiness is the next big boom that our governments should have predicted after the resources boom ?

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/the-boom-thats-sweeping-australia-why-beef-is-the-next-iron-ore/story-fnu2pwk8-1227573388478

    Well here’s my next prediction … just like the Japanese in the 80’s (the Gold Coast STILL has Japanese road signs!) … the Chinese tourists will hit us …

    The big question is … will the Japanese sign be changed to Chinese or will they buy wider road sign for three languages … and then wider to include Indian (all though my neighbourhood is slowly being taken over by Indians – still hard to get a taxi tho’) and then even wider for the Indonesians …

    We live in such a magnificent country! Cherish every minute you live here! But be willing to share it!

  203. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 18, 2015 8:39 pm

    “Lets make all payments illegal, business can’t pay unions and business also can’t pay political parties, lobbyists and governments either.

    Finally AO, we agree!

  204. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 8:44 pm

    Sure they’re complicit. When a union official offers a deal that will save $$$$hundreds of million$$$ and all a business has to do is approve a few dodgy invoices for $$thousands, some businesses will figure out how to get the invoices approved

    ToM, I’ve finally reached my decision on whether you are very, very clever, or very, very naiive, or very, very, privileged, or lived a very, very, sheltered or lucky life …

  205. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 8:46 pm

    Finally AO, we agree! ***

    Chuckle …

  206. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 18, 2015 9:39 pm

  207. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 18, 2015 9:52 pm

    “you are very, very clever”

    Finally TB, we agree!

  208. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 11:17 pm

    KL, just read the same email …

    New “leader” … new government? My arse!

    Same old miserable, selfish, cruel, uncompassionate, controlling take on their world!

    Ignorant bunch of shiny arsed pricks!

  209. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2015 11:19 pm

    Finally TB, we agree!

    BS! We’ve agreed before … however on this occasion?

  210. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 12:29 am

    Shorten’s shocker: bad poll for Labor
    Fairfax-Ipsos poll shows dark days for Labor as Coalition surges under Malcolm Turnbull

    Labor is trailing the coalition in the Fairfax Ipsos poll for the first time in more than a year, as support for Bill Shorten collapses.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/dog-days-for-labor-as-coalition-surges-under-malcolm-turnbull-20151018-gkbx59.html#ixzz3ovRs4cXp

    Malcolm Turnbull’s miracle poll turnaround for the Coalition risks messiah complex
    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/malcolm-turnbulls-miracle-turnaround-for-the-coalition-risks-messiah-complex-20151018-gkc4v8.html#ixzz3ovSNSa1Y

    …But the numbers that will most transfix the party machine officials will be the primary vote figures, where Labor has slumped to a dire 30 per cent, down 6 per cent in a month. This is 3 points lower than at the last election. If this persists into next year, Labor will start to consider drastic measures…

  211. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 8:17 am

    “We’ll only help auto workers if you allow us to make poor people worse off”

    Ignoring the fact that because of this grubmints actions, those auto workers will soon be the ones being hit by those welfare cuts. Either way, they are hitting the auto workers. It’s really a win win from their point of view.

    Three weeks and counting …

    keep waiting.

    Let’s just hope Shorten becomes PM then.

    I AGREE!!

    So who do you believe?

    That was a trick question, wasn’t it?

    The sworn evidence supports those opinions.

    Please provide the bit you think does, and I’ll rebut it for you. In fact, I probably already have, in which case, I’ll link back to my comments you missed. 😉

    the real question is what level of Australian tax the Prime Minister is paying on that income and what he would have paid if the investments had been undertaken in Australia.

    Just needed repeating 😉

    and all a business has to do is approve a few dodgy invoices

    Ahh, the “dodgy invoices” that the Union lawyer exposed as complete bullshit. You’ll need to better than that yomm in order to run an argument that doesn’t expose you as something TB seems to see. And it wasn’t the bit you cherry picked from his comment either 😉

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/10/06/the-tpp-if-its-so-good-why-is-it-so-secret/#comment-116952

  212. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 19, 2015 8:19 am

    Same old miserable, selfish, cruel, uncompassionate, controlling take on their world!

    TB of Queensland. Where were you when this was going on?

    https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/asylum-seekers-refugees-and-human-rights-snapshot-report/2-onshore-detention-and

    Between January 2011 and February 2013 there were 4,313 incidents of actual, threatened and attempted serious self-harm recorded in immigration detention facilities in Australia.[73] In the 2012–2013 financial year there were 846 incidents of self-harm across the immigration detention network.[74]

    Between 1 July 2010 and 20 June 2013, there were 12 deaths in immigration detention facilities. Coroners have found that six of those deaths were suicides.[75]

  213. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 8:41 am

    The latest polls show that the zombies really are here … dramatic numbers … but WTF has changed?

    Smart answers instead of paranoid gaffes … ?

    If this continues we’ll see another landslide to the Libs who will then claim a mandate to screw the same people who voted them in …

    The irony is incredible …

  214. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 8:46 am

    Another example of journalistic prowess … a sub heading no less …

    Australia and Bernard Foley break Scotland hearts in World Cup drama

    erm, try breaking Scottish hearts … duh …

  215. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 8:53 am

    but WTF has changed?

    yabot. It is becoming obvious how much he was hated, and how much work Labor have to do to get back. Although, they have laid most of the groundwork, now comes the hard slog.

    And making inane statements like “weekend penalty rates are needed for a private education” just aren’t going to do it.

    I’m pretty sure the temptation for a DD is strong. At the moment, people are really celebrating in the dumping of yabot and his policies. So far, only one half of the equation has been fulfilled. What will happen as the realisation dawns that the other half won’t be?

    And that Labor already has those policies laid out for them.

  216. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 19, 2015 9:02 am

    Ignoring the fact that because of this grubmints actions, those auto workers will soon be the ones being hit by those welfare cuts.

    Can’t stop telling lies can you TomR.

    You most probably blame the Coalition for locking up 50,000 boat people, 2,000 of those were kids.

  217. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 9:03 am

    Will Turncoat stop the rot?

    After last week’s performance (make no mistake it was a performance) I doubt anything will be done to favour we plebs … in fact quite the opposite will happen …

    Dastyari is right to attack the use of tax havens. They exist for no other purpose than preventing money reaching national treasuries. But the simple truth is that your superannuation balance smells faintly tropical too. Some of your money has been to the Caymans, or an equivalent.

    Super funds invest by giving “mandates” to managers to invest in different assets. It is common for both Australian and international managers to use subsidiaries in tax havens as they invest money around the world and return it home. The super fund you are in, and the one I’m in, and the one for which I am a trustee director: all use managers which do this. It’s essentially not possible to find ones that don’t.

    This year’s tax statistics revealed that 55 wealthy Australian’s earning an average of $2.3m each paid no tax at all, even the Medicare levy, after deductions. You don’t get rid of a million in tax with your receipts from Officeworks and the donation to Vinnies.

    This same group did manage to spend an average of $1m each on tax-deductible advice from lawyers and accountants to get all of this done …

    … The sheer pervasiveness of aggressive tax schemes is one factor in the ethical blind spot that exists about tax.

    In the meantime every bit of this game means someone else pays more tax, or we run bigger deficits, or we cut public services or investments. Or all three. Almost all of us have at least a very small stake in tax havens. Most of us have a much, much bigger stake in cracking down on them.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/16/its-not-just-malcolm-turnbull-your-super-smells-like-the-caymans-too

  218. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 9:12 am

    WOW! I just won a big prize from Google UK!

    They must have an office in Portugal … 😉

  219. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 9:17 am

    If they walk the talk … but I suspect they’ll just talk the talk!

    Updated: 5:12 am, Monday, 19 October 2015

    The federal government will be seeking the opposition’s support in parliament for new laws that crack down on tax-dodging multinationals.

    There are hopes that the four-day sitting of the lower house starting today will also bring a breakthrough in talks between the government and Labor on passing the China free trade agreement.

    Senators will quiz ministers and senior officials in a week of estimates hearings.

    Labor spent much of last week’s parliamentary question time attacking the prime minister for making personal investments in the Cayman Islands.

    – See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/10/19/parliament-to-crack-down-on-tax-dodgers.html?cid=BP_RSS_top-stories_4_parliament-to-crack-down-on-tax-dodgers_191015#sthash.gVLm2N9c.dpuf

  220. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 9:22 am

    This same group did manage to spend an average of $1m each on tax-deductible advice from lawyers and accountants to get all of this done …

    Why can’t this industry survive without such generous grubmint Subsidies??

    And, sorry, linking a Super Account (which has investments in hundreds of locations) with a PM specifically selecting a well known tax haven for his investment portfolio is just mindbogglingly stupid. What is dumber, is if these plebs expect us to believe them

  221. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 9:32 am

    There are hopes that the four-day sitting of the lower house starting today will also bring a breakthrough in talks between the government and Labor on passing the China free trade agreement.

    I read somewhere else that there is currently an ad that is attacking the Unions (not sure is Labor is included, but, we know the line that is drawn) as being ‘racist’ over their opposition to the unfair trade deal with China. Not sure if that can be considered as working co-operatively with anyone?

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/liberals-to-release-china-fta-attack-ads-branding-unions-racist-20151002-gk0g8n.html

    These are apparently the people they are calling ‘racist’

  222. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 19, 2015 9:42 am

    Michael Lawler understands that people have figured him out although he seems to give too much credit to kathy:

    “I’ll be characterised as that scumbag, crook, fraudster and at the very best somebody who’s been bewitched by an evil harridan, namely Kathy,”

    That Guardian article is just plain ignorant, TB. No doubt the next campaign will be against the massive amount of tax avoided because the government does not tax 100% of corporate profits.

    Oh, and do you seriously think that Singapore exists “for no other purpose than preventing money reaching national treasuries”?

    Or Australia for that matter. In terms of taxing hedge funds the Caymans treatment is not much different to Australia. In both cases the fund can earn foreign income and gains and distribute them to foreign investors and in neither case will the fund’s income or gain or the distribution be taxed. In both cases taxation will occur in the source country where the income or gain or is made and in the country of residence of the investor.

  223. Walrus permalink
    October 19, 2015 10:29 am

    “…………In both cases taxation will occur in the source country where the income or gain or is made and in the country of residence of the investor…………….”

    That’s the part that’s far too complex for the feeble minds of TomR and TB.

  224. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 10:34 am

    In both cases the fund can earn foreign income and gains and distribute them to foreign investors and in neither case will the fund’s income or gain or the distribution be taxed.

    In both cases taxation will occur in the source country where the income or gain or is made and in the country of residence of the investor.

    No tax? ! ? Some tax? ! ? Twin tax ? ! ? ! Double tax? ! ? Twice the tax?!?

    … gobbledegook … ?

    The question remains then … why bother?

  225. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 10:37 am

    That’s the part that’s far too complex for the feeble minds of TomR and TB.

    So the fact that that has been recognised from the start, and that my argument is that the FUND itself is taxed (or not) in a place that shirks taxes as opposed to Australia is obviously too complex for someone else to understand.

  226. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 10:39 am

    why bother?

    It’s just “the thing to do” apparently 😉

  227. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 11:41 am

    “…………In both cases taxation will occur in the source country where the income or gain or is made and in the country of residence of the investor…………….”
    That’s the part that’s far too complex for the feeble minds of TomR and TB…

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/the-pm-is-no-ordinary-taxpayer-which-is-why-clarification-is-neeed-20151016-gkaqmn.html#ixzz3oy9QYle3

    …There are two main reasons for investing in a hedge fund in the Cayman Islands. The first real reason is the low tax or no tax rate on income earned in or often through that jurisdiction…

    …Associated with this is the fact that overseas income earned in other jurisdictions can perhaps also be routed to places like the Cayman Islands tax free. Double Irish Dutch sandwiches come to mind. This means the capital fund in the Caymans may grow unhindered by tax anywhere in the world unlike, for example, investments in Australia.

    …The Prime Minister is not any ordinary taxpayer. In the interests of justice and equity, he should make all the information about his Cayman Islands arrangements public so that Australians can judge whether he is avoiding any Australian tax or taking advantage of special rules that reduce or exempt his income from Australian tax…

    March 24th, 2014
    http://www.theage.com.au/business/more-multinationals-head-for-tax-haven-20140323-35bkp.html?skin=text-only

    …A Fairfax Media investigation this month revealed tech giant Apple had shifted an estimated $8.9 billion in untaxed profits from its Australian operations to a tax haven structure in Ireland in the past decade.

    It comes as G20 governments step up efforts to claw back lost revenue from multinational profit-shifting.

    John Passant, from the school of political science and international relations, at the Australian National University, said the trend noted by Computershare was further evidence multinationals did not take global regulators seriously.

    ”US companies are doing this on the hard-nosed basis that any [regulatory] changes that will be made won’t have an impact on their ability to avoid tax,” he said…

  228. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 11:46 am

  229. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 11:48 am

    opps sorry, the above twitter should be in reb’s new thread re abetz.

  230. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 11:48 am

    (Note, too, that these are not “leftist” concerns. Tax havens are tilting the playing field for business: people across the political spectrum should oppose this. To be anti-tax haven is, in a very profound sense, to be pro-business.)
    ………..
    to focus only on who broke the law and who didn’t is to miss the big picture – which is, who got the cream and who didn’t.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/19/tax-havens-money-cayman-islands-jersey-offshore-accounts

    “Nicholas Shaxson is the author of Treasure Islands: Tax Havens And The Men Who Stole The World, published by Vintage.”

  231. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 12:05 pm

    Those useless fkn, desal plants … !

    CALIFORNIA is looking Down Under for tips to deal with its record-breaking drought.

    AUSTRALIA’S driest capital city, Adelaide, is this week showing off its desalination plant to Californian water agency heads and legislators grappling with a four-year record-breaking dry spell.

    “We will showcase the way we use alternative water sources, such as stormwater and wastewater recycling,” Water Minister Ian Hunter said.

    I still think the nest idea Peter Beatty ever had (and there was some loopy ones!) was to have a national fleet of ships with desal plants that could be directed to areas around the coast …

    The SE Qld pipelines will also come into play in the next few years … while our water rates have increased to pay for it … I think it was much needed infrastructure … pity it hasn’t been extended West …

  232. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 12:09 pm

    Desal Plants TB? Can’t we just make our own rain when we want?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-11-20/turnbull-pumps-10m-into-rainmaking-gamble/731004

  233. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 12:18 pm

    Bloody hell, TR … I’d forgotten about that raindance nonsense … I now recall Joh BP calling for prayers to break a draught during his (reign of) tenure …

  234. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 19, 2015 2:21 pm

    “That’s the part that’s far too complex for the feeble minds of TomR and TB.”

    I see what you mean!

    The volume of squawking is inversely proportionate to the knowledge of the subject.

  235. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 2:22 pm

    The volume of squawking is inversely proportionate to the knowledge of the subject.

    Is that a similar measure as to the volume of abuse in relation to magnitude of avoidance of the actual discussion points raised?

  236. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 19, 2015 2:54 pm

    Tom R, I’ve spent time answering questions, including the one TB has asked about 5 times, and making arguments based on the actual tax law of Australia and the Cayman Islands.

  237. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 3:00 pm

    I’ve spent time answering questions

    So we heard. A shame the answer wasn’t to do with hte questions, but a fine effort none the less.

    Do you agree that the issue isn’t with turnbulls personal tax, but more his ability to argue against multi-nationals using tax havens when he himself uses them for his own purposes?

  238. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 3:09 pm

    Yes, I do agree. Have we heard turnbull talking anti tax havens at all?

  239. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 3:35 pm

    Do you agree that the issue isn’t with turnbulls personal tax, but more his ability to argue against multi-nationals using tax havens when he himself uses them for his own purposes?

    Well yes it is to do with Turncoat’s tax … and transparency of the financial affairs of the PRIME Minister of Australia … especially in this so-called egalitarian society …

    AND it also goes to the heart of Turncoat’s ability to argue the point against other tax dodgers …

    … but you seem to have been obsessed with “explaining” to us that there is no advantage in Turncoat and others shifting vast amounts of money off-shore … vis a vis tax …

    And that’s why I ask … so why do it …

    I’m sure you know the answer … you’re** just struggling with the explanation … the responsibility for communication always rests with the sender not the receiver …

    And for the benefit of Wally … I can assure you that I certainly don’t have a “feeble” (deliberate choice of word) mind and I’d gladly vouch for TR’s!

  240. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 19, 2015 3:37 pm

    “Do you agree that the issue isn’t with turnbulls personal tax, but more his ability to argue against multi-nationals using tax havens when he himself uses them for his own purposes?”

    Clearly the issue cannot be with Turnbull’s personal tax because he gets no tax benefit.

    Having had their stupid arses kicked on that point, the second proposition is a fall-back. And, when you think about it for a nanosecond, an idiotic fall-back at that. Maybe there would be a point if Turnbull was some nefarious tax evading fraudster. But he is not. (Secretly I hope he is and is destroyed because of it, but as at now there is no case against him.)

    Half the hedge funds in the world are Cayman funds. Each fund is different. The main factors in choice of fund are the track record of the management, the risk profile of the assets and the proposed strategy. If you have decided to invest in a hedge fund, no sane person would decide to exclude all Cayman funds from consideration.

    If Turnbull had a commercial reason for investing in a Cayman fund then what is the issue with that? The fact is that he would not have been able to get the same characteristics in any other fund.

    Turnbull would have no trouble complaining about the tax avoidance of multinationals. He hasn’t been involved in tax avoidance (so far as we know).

  241. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 19, 2015 3:40 pm

    “And that’s why I ask … so why do it … “

    If you can’t read, I can’t help you further.

  242. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 3:43 pm

    Having had their stupid arses kicked on that point

    Can you highlight where the Labor party made that their point? Because, even they stated that there was nothing illegal about it. It has ALWAYS been about what you call “the fall back”

    Maybe there would be a point if Turnbull was some nefarious tax evading fraudster.

    You mean, someone who goes out of his way to invest his money in a well known Tax Haven that most other people could not even contemplate doing due to the sums involved.

    Half the hedge funds in the world are Cayman funds.

    Half? really? should I sk for a link? But, either way, I guess Australia isn’t good enough for his money

    no sane person would decide to exclude all Cayman funds from consideration.

    Unless of course you are the PM of a country examining multi-nationals using the Caymans to hedge their funds 😉

    (so far as we know).

    Wow, you have almost hit the nail on the head there 😉

  243. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 3:45 pm

    Clearly the issue cannot be with Turnbull’s personal tax because he gets no tax benefit.

    How can you say that with authority? Are you his accountant and privy to his financial arrangements?

    Unless we know the detail of his arrangements and can assess that against what tax he would have paid in australia on his funds, you cannot possibly state the above with such conviction.

  244. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 3:48 pm

    You haven’t helped anyone …

    He hasn’t been involved in tax avoidance (so far as we know).

    Then someone needs to find out … if you’re demanding an explanation for Shorten looking dodgy … then the same should be said of Turncoat … hey!

  245. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 3:54 pm

    How can you say that with authority?

    Don’t you love how the meeja can declare blank faced that turnbulls Caymans stash is all above board (when in fact one of the reasons they go there is so that no one can know), yet Shorten is assumed guilty, even AFTER the turc discovers no wrongdoing, not even any dodgy invoices.

    matemedia

  246. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 19, 2015 4:24 pm

    “Unless we know the detail of his arrangements and can assess that against what tax he would have paid in australia on his funds, you cannot possibly state the above with such conviction.”

    Oh, but I can. The ATO has a wonderful website where much of this is explained. Residents like Turnbull are taxed on their world-wide income. It doesn’t matter if it is from Australia or the Caymans it gets taxed here just the same.

    If Turnbull invested in an Australian entity he would pay tax on distributions he received and on his capital gains on sale of his investment in the entity. Likewise he will pay tax on distributions he receives from a Cayman entity and on any gains he makes on sale of his investment in the entity.

    You can ask Walrus if you want professional confirmation, but I’m pretty sure I’m right on this.

  247. Walrus permalink
    October 19, 2015 4:39 pm

    “…………. but I’m pretty sure I’m right on this.”

    Yep………….Correct

    And as for……………..

    “And that’s why I ask … so why do it … “

    Here……………….read this…………….you might actually learn something.

    http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/news/superannuation/smsfs-ignoring-overseas-diversification

    Plus of course the Cayman Islands also have a very strong regulatory framework plus its in the same time zone as Wall Street. Which kinda makes investing in companies like Apple of Microsoft or Amazon via a managed fund in real time much easier and at arms length from any conflict of interest which could arise if he was to do so directly via E-trade/Commsec etc.

    But D’uh…………………………………that doesn’t seem to matter to unsavvy investors in our midst

  248. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 5:25 pm

    Making Money is Taxing:
    https://theconversation.com/making-money-is-taxing-49283

    …So the question is not, have you paid your income tax but how have you calculated that income tax?

    And this question is about to come into sharp relief as governments around the world begin to address the rise of tax havens. Despite what may be considered a conflict of interest, at one level it’s a positive for Australia that our prime minister is an ex-investment banker who is also fully aware of how tax havens work. On the other hand, he may be at a disadvantage because the ATO is shedding experienced staff just when they may be most needed…

    Using family trusts to minimise tax is on the nose: so why are policy makers silent?
    https://theconversation.com/using-family-trusts-to-minimise-tax-is-on-the-nose-so-why-are-policy-makers-silent-47277

  249. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 6:02 pm

    Which kinda makes investing in companies like Apple of Microsoft or Amazon via a managed fund in real time much easier and at arms length from any conflict of interest which could arise if he was to do so directly via E-trade/Commsec etc.

    There’s that “conflict of interest” defence again … the conflict of interest is even more of a problem now … he has to deal with foreign affairs, international affairs, defence, other government leaders (all whispering in each other’s ears) …

    And here’s the thing … that “conflict of interest” is a furphy … just as the “he’d pay the same tax” furphy …

    Because you or I can’t tell … because the investments are “grey” … not transparent …

    We all know why Turncoat does it … but the defence of it is just as appalling … you don’t have to be a “savvy” investor to know that …

  250. Walrus permalink
    October 19, 2015 6:20 pm

    … because the investments are “grey” … ”

    Oh FFS !

    So what the fuck do you call anyone’s investment in an AMP Superfund or a HOST Fund or LUCRF or MLC Super or BT Super?

    Its not direct investment so therefore its not transparent for your liking

    “… the conflict of interest is even more of a problem now … he has to deal with foreign affairs, international affairs, defence, other government leaders …….”

    So going by your bucket load of stupid if he converted everything to cash then I suppose he’d have a conflict of interest in his dealings with the fucking RBA over interest rate policy.

    Seriously what a stupid fucking argument you are putting forward.

    ” … just as the “he’d pay the same tax” furphy … ”

    Go read the fucking Tax Act then !

  251. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 19, 2015 6:27 pm

    KL on the other thread: “It’s not a lot different to how hedge funds and other entities work in the caymans and ireland for tax avoidance purposes really, just a bit of shuffling around “

    You really have no clue, do you? A hedge fund will have broadly similar tax treatment in Australia, Ireland or the Caymans.

    What Turnbull did was a normal commercial transaction. He invested in a Cayman hedge fund. No tax avoided anywhere.

    There are also, however, any number of transactions individuals and corporations might enter into which may be largely tax driven and offensive from a tax policy point of view or may even be part of an illegal tax evasion transaction.

    To put it simply an avoidance transaction is one which has little or no commercial purpose but has a dominant purpose of reducing tax liability. Turnbull’s transactions are the opposite – they have a dominant commercial purpose and no purpose of reducing tax liability.

    FWIW, a large chunk of all this crap about multinational tax avoidance is a result of a deliberate policy decision of the yanks, which is to tax income of foreign subsidiaries only when it is returned to the US parent. There is no point in calling a decision not to repatriate offshore profits avoidance (which is what the hysterics and leftist idiots do). The US can change that rule at any time, but chooses not to.

  252. TB Queensland permalink
    October 19, 2015 7:19 pm

    I see Wally is spittling again … must’ve hit a nerve … 😉

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Turnbull’s transactions are the opposite – they have a dominant commercial purpose and no purpose of reducing tax liability.

    You seem to be well informed on Turncoat’s financial arrangement … how could we possibly dispute such an obviously well informed and detailed explanation …thanks … *

    … which is to tax income of foreign subsidiaries only when it is returned to the US parents …

    Ahhh so its the US government that forces multinationals to avoid tax … of course … that makes sense now … *

    The Australian Financial Review’s analysis shows that while Australians have bought $27 billion worth of Apple products since 2002, the company has paid only $193 million to the Australian Tax Office (ATO) – just 0.7 per cent of its turnover.

    The newspaper estimates that around $9 billion in profit has been shifted offshore to minimise taxation.

    “Apple worldwide in the past four years have avoided paying tax on $US44 billion,” said Antony Ting, a senior lecturer in taxation law at Sydney University.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-06/tax-expert-explains-how-apple-pays-193m-tax-on-27b-revenue/5303426

  253. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 7:22 pm

    What Turnbull did was a normal commercial transaction. He invested in a Cayman hedge fund. No tax avoided anywhere.

    None that anyone knows about and there’s no way of finding out is there?
    You don’t know how he has arranged his commercial transactions sb as there is a lack of transparency and now that a bill was passed last week, none of us will know from the ATO about the income and taxes paid by wealthy australians, apparently we’ll try to kidnap them.

    Remember that old saying “tax havens – a sunny location for shady people”

    Cant we do normal commercial transactions in australia? We do have a very toothless ASIC you know, purposely designed to allow all kinds of corporate fraud and we have an abundance of clever financial types 😉

    I remember when australian politicians and their families were supposed to showcase australian goods and services, the PM’s wife would wear clothes from australian designers and the PM would be megaphoning australian enterprise. Malcolm is signalling to the wealthy here to “take it all offshore.”

    Malcolm should lead by example and invest in australia, it’s the least of his conflicts-of-interest. We are supposed to be clamping down on the use of tax havens and tax dodging, that was all the rage a few short months ago, or was it all just lip service to appease the angry masses while they get shafted yet again?

    .

  254. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 7:29 pm

    Turnbull’s transactions are the opposite – they have a dominant commercial purpose and no purpose of reducing tax liability.

    As I said, you know this how sb?

    All you’re doing is having complete faith in what malcolm has said.

    The dominate commercial purpose is to make as much money for him as possible, so far it’s a secret as to how he [and lucy don’t forget] are doing it.

  255. October 19, 2015 8:13 pm

    There are `two` components to `offshoring` splatter, one is the `tax-dodging` component, the second is the `secrecy` component.

    When there is chains of paper-entity owning paper-entity owning paper-entity, (church,biz,trust,fund,whatever) it is often not possible to `track-down` the `actual` humans.

    Hence, these `offshore` agents will arrange at their clients request, a credit-card or bank-account in a `third` country in the `name` the client requests, so profits could say be paid to `sam-teabag` creditcard/bank account, with the card sent to point piper, and transactions NOT sent to/via/into Aust/ato. Potentially, a talkbull could `hide` cayman/offshore profits, and holiday/biz spending in japan would be done by `sam-teabag`, that`s how it was working pre 911newyork/bali/london, l know the `secret` component has been smashed in switzerland, don`t know about the rest.

  256. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 8:23 pm

    …Plus of course the Cayman Islands also have a very strong regulatory framework plus its in the same time zone as Wall Street. Which kinda makes investing in companies like Apple of Microsoft or Amazon via a managed fund in real time much easier and at arms length from any conflict of interest which could arise if he was to do so directly via E-trade/Commsec etc…

    How governments are helping big companies pay less tax:
    https://theconversation.com/how-governments-are-helping-big-companies-pay-less-tax-48614

    Cosy deals

    …It isn’t just companies that governments are doing battle with over taxation, it is also other states. Apple has negotiated a special tax rate with the Irish government, resulting in its affiliates paying 2% or less since 2003. Starbucks has also apparently reached a similar “secret” deal with the Netherlands tax authorities. Amazon’s tax deal with Luxembourg is so generous that the European Union is currently investigating it as potential state aid to the company.

    Evidence of bespoke tax deals reached between corporations and governments throws into question the very sustainability of the corporate tax system and raises serious questions about the alignment of government and corporate interests and its effects on tax revenues and public spending in future…

  257. October 19, 2015 8:58 pm

    barking”””U.S. government information(#propaganda) is not mentioned in the 279-page Dutch report, which focused on the failure to close off the eastern Ukrainian war zone to commercial flights and the cause of the crash rather than who fired on MH-17. A Dutch criminal investigation is still underway with the goal of determining who was responsible(#airline-boardroom) but without any sign of an imminent conclusion.”””’

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/10/13/mh-17-the-dog-still-not-barking/

    ,

    barking”””I was told by a U.S. intelligence source earlier this year that CIA analysts had met with Dutch investigators to describe what the classified U.S. evidence showed but apparently with the caveat that it must remain secret.”””

    #who is being played, `investigators` or `reporter`

    ,

    barking””””’The Dutch-led investigation was perhaps compromised by a central role given to the Ukrainian government which apparently had the power to veto what was included in the report. Yet, what may have spoken most loudly in the Dutch report was the silence about U.S. intelligence information.”””

    #no mention of willfully negligent boardroom flying over publicly-globally-known HOT battlefield, let the propaganda roll-on 🙂

  258. Tom R permalink
    October 19, 2015 9:29 pm

    If Turnbull invested in an Australian entity he would pay tax on distributions he received and on his capital gains on sale of his investment in the entity.

    You keep going back to this “he pays his personal income tax”, which, as has been stated repeatedly, misses the point. I’m beginning to believe quite deliberately. The point is, he has invested in a fund in a tax haven that by-passes Australian taxation laws and oversight. By investing in a tax haven like the Caymans, the fund there pays little or no tax, which can result in higher returns for the investor. We also don’t know if ALL of the profits are coming here, or are some being re-directed back into that fund? We won’t know, because the Caymans won’t let the ATO look.

    Even then, there is nothing ‘illegal’. But by supporting with his money this kind of tax haven, it raises many questions about his motivation for seriously tackling multinational corporate profit shifting. He is actually a beneficiary of that kind of arrangement.

    No tax avoided anywhere.

    See above 😉

  259. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 19, 2015 9:59 pm

    Apparently Kathy Jackson is a crook. She’s a former union official who hasn’t been convicted.

    Craig Thompson isn’t a crook. He’s a former union official who has been convicted.

  260. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 10:35 pm

    Unfknblvable!

  261. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 10:38 pm

  262. October 19, 2015 10:42 pm

    blubbering”””So what the fuck do you call anyone`s investment in an AMP Superfund or a HOST Fund or LUCRF or MLC Super or BT Super?

    Its not direct investment so therefore its not transparent for your liking”””’

    #which report to `apra` or similar, what assets are held by fund, and maintains records of `who` the `holders` are, l bet most of these `off-shore` things don`t report to apra/watchdog

  263. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 19, 2015 11:30 pm

  264. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 8:06 am

    ao had a link to Lenore’s article, but I can’t find the post right now, But either way, she appears to be truly truly blinded by talcum, which is unfortunate, as she was one of the few who didn’t fall under yabots spell.

    It readily conceded it had no evidence of wrongdoing or illegality, but spent a week targeting Turnbull’s investments in offshore managed funds registered in the Cayman Islands. The point was to paint the new prime minister as “not one of us”, because “we” don’t have a lazy million to pop into a Cayman Islands investment fund. Turnbull himself called out the real attack by week’s end – that he was rich.

    ….

    The other is Labor has now dropped the Cayman Islands attack.

    ……..

    Instead it used question time on Monday to demand the Coalition back Labor policies on things such as higher education, multinational tax regulation and tax breaks for high income earners’ superannuation, most of which Turnbull swatted off.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/19/malcolm-turnbull-has-two-possible-weak-spots-labor-attacked-wrong-one

    Can she really not see the link there? Is she that blinded and closeted from the real world that something like that doesn’t jump out at her. I’ll agree, Labors strategy was a bit blunted both by their implementation (every question about the Catmans should have been linked however tenuously to policy) and the medias complete protection of turnbull.

    ShaneFromMelbourne in the comments gets it, why can’t Lenore?

    Bullshit Lenore. Tax transparency matters and we all know that the Coalition just passed legislation exempting the wealthy from tax disclosure. If the Australian public is okay with rampant tax avoidance and tax minimization then they are still the same dumb shits that elected Abbott and deserve to be screwed over by the Coalition……

    And this will be a slow burner, which I think it was always designed for.

    Malcolm Turnbull has yet to receive final advice on how to best avoid conflicts of interest.
    ……..
    “Advice has been provided that requires some additional work.”

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/10/19/turnbull-still-getting-advice-interests

    Tantalising that last bit.

  265. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 8:59 am

    “We also don’t know if ALL of the profits are coming here, or are some being re-directed back into that fund? We won’t know, because the Caymans won’t let the ATO look.”

    WRONG !

    Firstly any profits do not need to physically come back here in order to be taxed plus now you are accusing Turnbull of lying on his tax return which is very specific insofar as disclosure questions in relation to holdings in foreign entities and profits made by them.

  266. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:01 am

    you are accusing Turnbull of lying on his tax return

    No I’m not. How do we know if the fund is set up to redirect investment earnings back into more investments before it is ever even acknowledged as a profit? The ATO is unable to see these details.

  267. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:01 am

    “Tantalising that last bit.”

    Ummmmmmmmmmmm………not really !

  268. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:03 am

    Investigators for the Australian Tax Office and their lawyers were told by a judge last year that if they travelled to the Cayman Islands they could be locked up.

    A year earlier the Tax Office had suffered a setback. It lost a case in the Grand Court of the Cayman Islands. This was the first lawsuit, and apparently the only one, to test whether a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) actually worked. It didn’t.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/cayman-islands-court-leaves-tax-agreement-in-tatters-20141107-11ipbh.html

  269. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:08 am

    “How do we know if the fund is set up to redirect investment earnings back into more investments”

    Your evidence that it might do so ??????

  270. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:10 am

    Ummmmmmmmmmmm………not really !

    Well, perhaps not as tantalising as ex bosses declaring “yea, I reckon those receipts are dodgy” even though they do go on to admit they would have no idea if they were or not, and that they were unaware of all of the actual work the Union was doing that related to those specific receipts.

    But tantalising none the less 😉

  271. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:11 am

    Your evidence that it might do so ??????

    Again, you have hit the point directly on its head. Well done 🙂

  272. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:23 am

    Since the Cayman’s has a strict reporting regime in place………… so ……………….OK I will ask again……………….

    Your evidence that it might do so ??????

  273. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:26 am

    Since the Cayman’s has a strict reporting regime in place

    Your evidence that it might have so ??????

  274. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:37 am

    The Australian Financial Review’s analysis shows that while Australians have bought $27 billion worth of Apple products since 2002, the company has paid only $193 million to the Australian Tax Office (ATO) – just 0.7 per cent of its turnover.

    Be interesting to know how that works. We buy heaps of stuff from China (toys, shoes, electrical etc).

    How much tax do Chinese companies pay in Australia? I should think they should not have to pay anything. If we chose to buy stuff from China only the Australian companies who import the stuff should have to pay tax.

  275. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:53 am

    So nil pulls the racist card (as the conservatives like to call it)

    And let’s not forget all the criminality that tax haven secrecy facilitates.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/19/tax-havens-money-cayman-islands-jersey-offshore-accounts

    Would it be fair to state that perhaps talcum has “Questions to Answer”?

  276. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:06 am

    “We won’t know, because the Caymans won’t let the ATO look.”

    Fucking ignoramus!

  277. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:08 am

    OK I will ask again……………….

    Your evidence that it might do so ??????

    Or are you just going to continue to make shit up ……………..again

  278. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:12 am

    … plus now you are accusing Turnbull of lying on his tax return …

    No-one has done that except you … how could we … we don’t fucking know!

    Your evidence that it might do so ??????

    See above .. we don’t fucking know …

    Your evidence that it might do so ??????

    We can’t get any because its tied up tighter than a fishes arsehole to STOP anyone from fucking finding out …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    How much tax do Chinese companies pay in Australia?

    Which Chinese companies sell their products here? Anything imported over $1000 has a 10% tax applied … a totally different issue …

  279. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:14 am

    Fucking ignoramus!

    Me, or you?

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/10/14/malcolm-turnbulls-secret-cayman-islands-cash-stash/#comment-117405

    OK I will ask again……………….

    See above 😉

  280. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:15 am

    In case the above link is too difficult to locate, try the direct one that I already linked to.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/cayman-islands-court-leaves-tax-agreement-in-tatters-20141107-11ipbh.html

  281. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:24 am

    Which Chinese companies sell their products here?

    What are you talking about? I used to buy a lot of stuff from Dealsdirect.com.au Most of their stuff comes from China. Coffee machines, furniture, shoes, electrical stuff, actually lots of stuff. I got a trailer for my bicycle made in China.

    Why on earth should Chinese companies who make stuff in China have to pay tax in Australia? If we chose to import stuff from China only the Australian company who imports the stuff should have to pay tax on any profits.

  282. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:31 am

    The last time I saw Wally so defensive the thread was discussing coal v renewables … guess where he puts his dough?

    How much ya got in the Cayman’s, Wally?

    My super has two companies parked in the Caymans both wholly owned 100% …

    As for investments …

    Me I’ll own my solar system in three months and then start earning $1500 a year … that’s over 20% on my initial outlay I would guess …

    … not bad for a non-savvy investor (the same one who sold all his share portfolio and made a 78% profit in 2005 – including Telstra 1&2)

    Metal Storm that Wally often refers to (’cause I used to comment on the latest news on the Brisbane based company) … was a high tech electronic weapons system that I retained shares in because it was unique and had possibilities … I could afford to lose my investment … and eventually did … green slate, tech companies are risky, I know … I was the production manager for one …

  283. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:35 am

    “We can’t get any because its tied up tighter than a fishes arsehole to STOP anyone from fucking finding out … ”

    As usual ……………just more utter bullshit from a Queenslander out of their depth.

    FYI dude…………………regulated entities (which hedge funds are) must file audited accounts in the Cayman Islands which present a true and fair view of their activties.

    Now cut the fucking bullshiit out and cough up your evidence that they somehow “fudge” their profits or just shut the fuck up.

    No wonder Brisbane is so fucked up as I observed on the weekend if you are an example of the IQs of its inhabitants

  284. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:36 am

    guess where he puts his dough?

    Maybe he should start trading futures contracts in Onions in the US 😉

  285. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 10:37 am

    Now cut the fucking bullshiit out and cough up your evidence that they somehow “fudge” their profits or just shut the fuck up.

    Third time lucky?

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/cayman-islands-court-leaves-tax-agreement-in-tatters-20141107-11ipbh.html

  286. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:02 am

    “Third time lucky?”

    That case is not relevant to the regulatory question of whether profits are “true and fair” or not.

    It’s a tax disclosure case………………….D’uh……………you need to make a profit first Einstein

    As I thought just more made up shit from you again to act as your usual “look over there” tactics

  287. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:04 am

    Now cut the fucking bullshiit out and cough up your evidence that they somehow “fudge” their profits or just shut the fuck up.

    Fudge? Who said fudge?

    The Caymans are dodgy … I guess they might also be fudgy if you say so! 😉

    Absofknlutely astounding!

    There are none so blind … how many links have we put up?

    As usual ……………just more utter bullshit from a Queenslander out of their depth

    I’m surprised you got your visa …

    Chuckle …

    State of Orange – QUEENSLAND!

    NRL Grand Final – Winning team QUEENSLAND! … losing team QUEENSLAND!

    I have four relatives from UK arriving tomorrow … they’re** visiting Sydney for three days Friday to Sunday … that’s about my limit there too … then we’re off to Tangalooma for three days … I know which they’ll prefer … 🙂

  288. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:04 am

    It’s a tax disclosure case…

    Yes, so unrelated to secretive tax disclosure from the Caymans …………. ❓

    This was the first lawsuit, and apparently the only one, to test whether a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) actually worked. It didn’t.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/cayman-islands-court-leaves-tax-agreement-in-tatters-20141107-11ipbh.html#ixzz3p3tSXsgb
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

  289. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:06 am

    That case is not relevant to the regulatory question of whether profits are “true and fair” or not.

    It’s a tax disclosure case………………….D’uh……………you need to make a profit first Einstein

    Yes it is … that’s what TR put it up for … TAX transparency!

    Profits are “true and fair” … I would have thought that the disclosure of profits would have a major bearing on tax payable …

  290. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:11 am

    TAX transparency!

    SHHHH! 😉

    … I would have thought that the disclosure of profits would have a major bearing on tax payable …

    SHHHH! SHHHH! ;SHHHH! SHHHH! SHHHH! SHHHH! 😉

  291. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:15 am

    Tom R, that case shows that the Cayman courts require the government to act properly when exchanging information with Australian authorities. It does not show that the EOI is “shredded”.

    Clearly the Cayman government entered into EOIs and is willing to exchange information under them, and has sent information to the ATO. It just needs to follow Cayman law in doing so.

    Interestingly a Mamamia senior editor got a $1.25m payment from those very same Cayman via Monaco shenanigans, to help buy a house in a fashionable street in Paddington. There are none so innocent as the children of the rich.

  292. October 20, 2015 11:18 am

    Don’t you just love the way we all get along.

  293. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:19 am

    learly the Cayman government entered into EOIs and is willing to exchange information under them

    Except of course on those pesky occasions when they are actually asked to do that.

    Who said anything was “shredded”? It just didn’t work.

    This was the first lawsuit, and apparently the only one, to test whether a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) actually worked. It didn’t.

  294. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:20 am

    You have implied that Turnbull lies about his interests in foreign entities since the ATO is very specific in what it asks of individuals and companies lodging tax returns

    Now you are hypothicating that Companies in which Turnbull has an interet in the Cayman’s fudge their profits.

    Otherwise there is no case to answer

    Cough up the evidence or waste someone else’s tiime you Troll.

  295. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:22 am

    “Except of course on those pesky occasions when they are actually asked to do that.”

    And how many occasions have they been asked and how many times have they refused ???????????????

    Link it bullshitter !

  296. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:29 am

    Don’t you just love the way we all get along.

    Well, it would be boring otherwise.

    You have implied that Turnbull lies about his interests in foreign entities

    LINK?

    Now you are hypothicating that Companies in which Turnbull has an interet in the Cayman’s fudge their profits.

    Hypothetically, they can.

    Otherwise there is no case to answer

    Otherwise IS the point 😉

    Cough up the evidence or waste someone else’s tiime you Troll.

    AGAIN, you hit the nail on the head.

    And how many occasions have they been asked and how many times have they refused ???????????????

    One time asked, one time refused. That’s all the ATO needed to know that the arrangement you proudly declared was showing that the “Cayman’s has a strict reporting regime in place” is absolute rubbish.

    Link it bullshitter !

    What! AGAIN?

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/cayman-islands-court-leaves-tax-agreement-in-tatters-20141107-11ipbh.html

    It is the secrecy of what happens over there that is the real problem, and what Governments around the world are struggling to come to terms with.

    How will our grubmint respond when our PM is actually INVESTING in this SECRETIVE TAX HAVEN?

  297. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:41 am

    “It just didn’t work.”

    Wrong again.

    1. It worked. Australia got the information and used it.
    2. As a result of that case the Cayman government now has guidance on how to comply with the law.

  298. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:42 am

    “Cayman’s has a strict reporting regime in place” is absolute rubbish.

    Let’s call your usual bullshit.

    http://www.cimoney.com.ky/

    Only a moron would put their money into a joint as dodgy as you imply it is.

    Turnbull is no moron

  299. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:46 am

    It worked. Australia got the information and used it.

    Until they went to court, you forgot to add that bit 😉

    As a result of that case the Cayman government now has guidance on how to comply with the law.

    Yes, by telling us to get fucked!

    By finding, however, that Cayman Islands Tax Information Authority acted unlawfully by providing the Australian Tax Office with documents about two companies registered there – despite the bilateral deal for exchange of information – it does not bode well for any such arrangement.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/cayman-islands-court-leaves-tax-agreement-in-tatters-20141107-11ipbh.html#ixzz3p43o2Jp4
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

    wally

    See above!

  300. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:57 am

    Note the stupidity of our resident Troll.

    TomR continues to defend convicted criminal Thomson at every opportunity and now drags around the stinking carcass of the ALP’s attack on Turnbull AFTER they themselves have given up on it to talk about a fucking coffee table and a wine order

    Even the Greens thought the ALP was stupid.

    But not our own resident TomROLL.

    TomROLL squeezes himself into every cavity where stupidity might be hiding

  301. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 11:59 am

    TomROLL squeezes himself into every cavity where stupidity might be hiding

    In my defense. I’ve never even physically met you.

  302. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 12:03 pm

    “Don’t you just love the way we all get along.”

    I do. We have a fine and diverse collection of characters here. For example I am always calm, measured, completely rational and unfailingly polite. On the other hand there is that slavering CFMEU stooge and dog-fucking troll, Tom R and his rorschach counterpart Neil. Inkblots of a feather, those two. They and the rest of the mutant menagerie makes for interesting intercourse at all times.

    And for this we should be grateful. Indeed, particularly grateful for our under-appreciated host whose verbal and visual virtuosity sets the stage for our fun times. Judging by the volume and intensity of the comments, this community is a significant part of the lives of many of us.

  303. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 20, 2015 12:04 pm

    This Cayman Island things just appears to be another leftie diversion to get people confused.

    Same goes for lefties bashing Apple over the head because they do not pay much tax in Australia. AS far as i know Apple do not make computers, Iphones etc in Australia so why should Apple pay tax in Australia? All our computers are imported are they not?

    Same goes for the bicycle trailer i purchased from Dealsdirect that was imported from China. Why should the Chinese company who made the trailer pay tax in Australia?

  304. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 12:05 pm

    “In my defense. I’ve never even physically met you.”

    🙂 🙂 🙂

  305. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 12:05 pm

    For example I am always calm, measured, completely rational and unfailingly polite. On the other hand there is that slavering CFMEU stooge and dog-fucking troll

    Nicely played sb 🙂

    Is “Hotlinking” something the kiddies do on the interwebs these days to shoot down counter arguments?

  306. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 12:10 pm

    “Why should the Chinese company who made the trailer pay tax in Australia?”

    Tax is usually based on residence and source – residents are taxed on world-wide income and non-residents are taxed on Australian sourced income. (The US taxes on the basis of citizenship, which is a different basis to most countries.)

    Most countries have tax treaties to make sure their taxpayers are only taxed once. Under a typical treaty, the Chinese company would be taxed in Australia on profits if it has a significant presence in Australia, but only the profits of sale i.e. the difference between wholesale and retail.

  307. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 12:14 pm

    Hotlinking? (I had to look that up)

    I just like group pics – you look good in red!

  308. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 12:19 pm

    “Until they went to court, you forgot to add that bit”

    The Cayman action did not prevent the use of the info provided to the ATO.

    This was the outcome.

  309. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 12:33 pm

    The Cayman action did not prevent the use of the info provided to the ATO.

    No, the original story told us that.

    It also told us that now it has been tested, the Caymans can and will remain secretive.

  310. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 20, 2015 12:44 pm

    AFTER they themselves have given up on it to talk about a fucking coffee table and a wine order

    You never know what topic the ALP will bring up next. They all seem to have no moral standards but just bring up things to confuse the issue.

    They hate Abbott so much they are still attacking him as he walks out the door. An attack they would not have made if the table was damaged at an ALP party.

    he Chinese company would be taxed in Australia on profits if it has a significant presence in Australia, but only the profits of sale i.e. the difference between wholesale and retail.

    So what is the gripe with Apple? I think all our computers are imported but some people want Apple to pay tax on the profits they make making and selling computers. If they had an assembly plant in Australia people might have a point but they are fully imported.

  311. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 1:03 pm

    And of course this is why TomRoll is so keen to talk about the Caymans

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-19/trade-union-royal-commission-potential-fall-out/6864976

  312. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 20, 2015 1:17 pm

    And of course this is why TomRoll is so keen to talk about the Caymans

    Of course, Caymans, Apple not paying tax, asylum seekers who fly in rather than coming by boat are all smokescreens.

    Tom R and his rorschach counterpart Neil. Inkblots of a feather, those two

    I find that offensive. The Coalition did not lock up 50,000 boat people, 2,000 of whom were kids, The Coalition did not trash the budget, destroy our auto industry, damage our relationship with indonesia, spend $11B housing those 50,000 asylum seekers, Rudds $900 cheques etc etc. It was the Rudd/Gillard govt.

    Who did you vote for in 2007 SB?

  313. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 1:17 pm

    turc is full of shit

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/10/06/the-tpp-if-its-so-good-why-is-it-so-secret/#comment-116934

    I watched a bit this morning, and the attack dogs council assisting were left totally befuddled with their claim that the deal left people worst off when the Union guy spelt out for them three places written into the agreement that “no disadvantage” rules were written in explicitly referencing the Award.

    It was priceless.

  314. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 1:35 pm

  315. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 1:38 pm

    “Why we need trade unions.Fruit and veg market operator accused of paying asylum seeker $3.50 an hour.”

    Really……………….and what part did the Unions have in uncovering the underpayments ?

  316. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 1:41 pm

    “I’m surprised you got your visa … ”

    It pains me that I did.

    The joint is a rabble with the ferry system run on some weird outdated honesty system easily defrauded by evenn the lowest life Queenslander.

    Jobs that should have long been automated still in existence with queues everywhere

  317. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 2:44 pm

    Who said anything was “shredded”? It just didn’t work.

    Yeah, TR … you say one thing and it comes back as something else “you” said to support the contraire argument … seems to be a tory modus operandi …

    Example … in reference to Ayban’s plight … Dopey Dutton said yesterday … “the lady’s privacy was paramount” and it was wrong of others to politicise her tragedy.” Duh!

    Blame others for what you are thinking, saying, or doing …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And then this …

    AS far as i know Apple do not make computers, Iphones etc in Australia so why should Apple pay tax in Australia? All our computers are imported are they not?

    jesus fkn wept!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The joint is a rabble with the ferry system run on some weird outdated honesty system easily defrauded by evenn (sic) the lowest life Queenslander.

    But it isn’t … you have to pay … only a cockroach would cheat the public ferry system … what yo’ doin’ on da ferry, Wally!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Why we need trade unions.Fruit and veg market operator accused of paying asylum seeker $3.50 an hour

    Interesting that wages and conditions have deteriorated in sympathy with the deterioration of union membership …

    Unions are the fruit of incompetent, corrupt and/or greedy management … were they ALL (some are!) as caring and sharing as some would like us to believe and understood that companies are on the same TEAM not different teams … then we would have no need of unions to fight for the rights of workers …

    Pity is, The Robber Barons have never left us and are even more rampant than ever!

  318. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 2:50 pm

  319. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 2:55 pm

    very nice!

  320. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 2:58 pm

    And on border wars, medical treatment, abortions and RELIGOUS BELIEFS!

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/20/scott-morrison-voiced-opposition-to-late-term-abortion-in-2014-asylum-case

    I just went to Dopey Duttons website (I was curious about his religion) and found this … chuckle

    Peter Dutton MP is committed to protecting your privacy and developing technology that gives you the most powerful and safe online experience. This Statement of Privacy applies to the Peter Dutton MP Web site and governs data collection and usage. By using the Peter Dutton MP website, you consent to the data practices described in this statement.

    Collection of your Personal Information

    Peter Dutton MP collects personally identifiable information, such as your e-mail address, name, home or work address or telephone number. Peter Dutton MP also collects anonymous demographic information, which is not unique to you, such as your ZIP code, age, gender, preferences, interests and favorites.

    There is also information about your computer hardware and software that is automatically collected by Peter Dutton MP. This information can include: your IP address, browser type, domain names, access times and referring Web site addresses. This information is used by Peter Dutton MP for the operation of the service, to maintain quality of the service, and to provide general statistics regarding use of the Peter Dutton MP Web site.

    Security of your Personal Information

    Peter Dutton MP secures your personal information from unauthorized access, use or disclosure. Peter Dutton MP secures the personally identifiable information you provide on computer servers in a controlled, secure environment, protected from unauthorized access, use or disclosure. When personal information (such as a credit card number) is transmitted to other Web sites, it is protected through the use of encryption, such as the Secure Socket Layer (SSL) protocol.

    http://www.peterdutton.com.au/PrivacyPolicyDisclaimer/tabid/67/Default.aspx

    WTF! Intimidating or what? Is this metadata collection at its worst?

  321. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 3:04 pm

    Canada doesn’t have a Labour party?

    So are the Liberals similar to Labor?

    The Poms have three major parties Conservatives – Labour and Liberal …

    Yanks have Dems = Labor, Reps = Libs

    https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=frwlVqeDKcfu8weSrrqwBw&gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=canada+election&eob=%7B%22cr%22%3A%7B%22rt%22%3A1%2C%22rm%22%3A%22%2Fm%2F0d060g%22%7D%2C%22pr%22%3A%7B%7D%7D

  322. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 3:18 pm

    “Yeah, TR … you say one thing and it comes back as something else “you” said to support the contraire argument … seems to be a tory modus operandi … “

    Typical leftist debating style – being completely trashed on the substance Tom R and his sidekick TB are reduced to arguing utterly trivial points. For example by arguing saying a document is “shredded” is somehow different to saying it is “in tatters” (which is how Tom R’s link described it.)

    So, TB, if you want to make a big deal about that small difference, I give up. “Shredded” is different to “in tatters” if only in the spelling. Now tell me, old cock, what substantive difference does that make in the context of this argument?

    “It also told us that now it has been tested, the Caymans can and will remain secretive.”

    It didn’t actually say that, did it? And since then we have had almost a year since that article to see what happens, haven’t we. D’ya think that might be relevant to check before you go regurgitating the ALP talking points?

  323. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 3:26 pm

    It is good to see Mick Jagger’s son doing well in Canada.

  324. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 3:30 pm

    “… what yo’ doin’ on da ferry, Wally!”

    I and Mrs plus 10 of my most high value clients and partners were staying at the Stamford (last minute decision) so we decided to do a ferry tour up and down river selecting areas for residential investment i.e Kangaroo Point, Southbank etc.

    Then I paid for all to attend Robbie Williams at the Ent Cent out in whoop whoop on Saturday night. No we did not “train it”. We had hire cars

    Such a generous chap I am……………LOL

  325. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 3:33 pm

    It didn’t actually say that, did it?

    Wow, and yet you are the ones using the terms “shredded” and “tatters” 😯

    ROFL

    The court finding was very clear. They have jurisdiction, and other nations can keep their fucken noses out for anyone who wants to hide away their investments.

  326. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 20, 2015 3:45 pm

    jesus fkn wept!

    Well could some nice person help me out. If Apple do not have a manufacturing plant in Australia why should the Apple Company which has its headquarters in the USA pay tax in Australia? SB said this about the bike trailer i purchased from Dealsdirect which was imported from China “the Chinese company would be taxed in Australia on profits if it has a significant presence in Australia, but only the profits of sale ” which gave some information about what foreign companies have to do.

    The Australian Financial Review’s analysis shows that while Australians have bought $27 billion worth of Apple products since 2002, the company has paid only $193 million to the Australian Tax Office (ATO) – just 0.7 per cent of its turnover.

    That sounds fare enough to me. If we want more money we should set up a manufacturing plant in MELBOURNE.

  327. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 3:49 pm

    “Typical leftist debating style – being completely trashed on the substance Tom R and his sidekick TB are reduced to arguing utterly trivial points……”

    Splatter

    I’m actually quite convinced now that TomR is not just one person but most likely a collective of Leftist university students.

    Afterall the way I reason that is because no one person could possibly have such a high concentration of stupidity locked away in their grey matter.

    Its not physically possible for any one person to be so stupid.

    It has to be a collective of some sort.

  328. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 3:51 pm

    “They have jurisdiction, and other nations can keep their fucken noses out for anyone who wants to hide away their investments.”

    They didn’t say that either. Nor has the Caymans Tax Information Authority acted on that basis. Quite the opposite. But don’t let that stop you making shit up. Of course this website exists only to truck gullible foreign governments doesn’t it?

    Now riddle me this: what is the difference between a document being shredded and being in tatters? How is that difference at all relevant?

  329. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 3:51 pm

    Its not physically possible for any one person to be so stupid.

    LINK!

  330. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 4:19 pm

    Now tell me, old cock, … very British … old man!

  331. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 20, 2015 4:27 pm

    I’m proud of my British ancestry, TB. It is a constant battle in our family as my wife has Irish and Welsh antecedents.

  332. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 4:32 pm

    Such a generous chap I am……………LOL

    Especially when there’s a buck to made, hey! 😉

    10 gullible retirees more like …

    D’cha know I’ve never been on the new ferries …

    Hope you checked out the old, 1 Base Workshop at Bulimba … that was my workplace in 70/71 – fixing and driving armoured vehicles … I used to catch the ferry every day from the ferry pickup (opposite the Hamilton pub) … where some wanker decided to blame me for the Vietnam War tried to “engage” me verbally and then gobbed on my uniform to impress his girlfriend!

    Anyhoo, the Bulimba site is being re-developed as high rise residential … just sayin ‘

    Its not physically possible for any one person to be so stupid.

    I think you meant mentally possible … ToM will check that out … 🙂

    Goobly goobly goo! 😈

  333. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 4:34 pm

    “10 gullible retirees more like … ” plus partners.

  334. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 4:40 pm

    … as my wife has Irish and Welsh antecedents …

    I think you’ll find the Welsh too are British … and depending upon your orientation North/South so are (some of) the Irish …

    I think you meant English … ToM will be along to check that out … 🙂

    It’s interesting actually … I have English cousins, Canadian cousins … two of the four arriving tomorrow are my cousin and his wife … who now live in France and, like me, were born in Yorkshire and the other two are his younger sister and his son … who both still live in Yorkshire … The Minister was born in Friesland … my best friend in Germany … his wife was born in the UK and raised in South Africa … my next door neighbour is Bosnian …

    And the neighbours who were next door when we built this place he is Australian and she was born and raised in the same town as me in Yorkshire!

    What a world!

  335. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 4:42 pm

    “10 gullible retirees more like … ” plus partners.

    LOL! @ Wally! 😀

  336. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 4:44 pm

    Immigration staff told a Senate committee that over the period from March 24, 2014 to September 29, 2015, the regional processing centre recorded 14 sexual assaults, 213 physical assaults and 798 occurrences of abusive and/or aggressive behaviour.

  337. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 4:57 pm

    I haven’t seen last night’s 4 Corners The Lawler Jackson Affair … but I did just read this article … she’s certainly someone to avoid … and Lawler’sjust a Dickwit© along with all the other Fuckwits© in the story … all who seem to have their brains (if any) in their dicks!

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/kathy-jackson-a-tough-and-determined-woman-leaves-a-trail-of-powerful-men-in-her-wake/story-fnu2q5nu-1227575754135

  338. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 5:01 pm

  339. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 5:06 pm

    I agree KL … 😉

    FLIP FLOP FLIP FLOP

    Malcolm Turnbull says the need for the Clean Energy Finance Corporation remains an “open question” and has dismissed emissions trading schemes as simply another “piece of economic plumbing”, as Labor attacked the credibility of the Coalition’s climate policies.

    Coalition bans government’s clean energy bank from financing wind power

    Turnbull lost the Liberal leadership in 2009 over his backing for the former Rudd government’s emissions trading scheme, and was forced to pledge to retain the current Direct Action climate plan in order to win support from conservative and climate-sceptic colleagues before becoming prime minister, despite having once described it as “bullshit” and a “recipe for fiscal recklessness on a grand scale.”

    Under Tony Abbott, the coalition unsuccessfully tried to abolish the corporation, which the former prime minister derided as the “Bob Brown bank”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/20/malcolm-turnbull-refuses-to-back-clean-energy-finance-corporation

    New Lead Singer

    Same Backing Group

    Same Old Songs

  340. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 5:08 pm

    I agree KL … 😉

    In case your wondering KL … your last comment was blank until I sent my last comment!

  341. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 5:37 pm

    Blank TB?

    It’s time for Shorten to act on the union royal commission
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-20/maccallum-its-time-for-shorten-to-act-on-the-turc/6869458

    Bill Shorten’s defence at the Trade Union Royal Commission has been detailed and convincing, but voters are reading the headlines, not the transcripts.

    The grim reality of the polling only confirms that it is time for Bill Shorten to decide just what he is to do about Dyson Heydon’s Royal Commission into the unions and, in particular, his own involvement.

    Operation Fortitude: Border Force officers planned to target taxi stands and conduct visa checks “bi-monthly”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-20/border-force-officers-planned-to-check-visas-at-taxi-stands/6870250

  342. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 5:45 pm

  343. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 5:58 pm

    “……as if just natural that a woman should want to share details of a RAPE with thuggish right wing commentator from Aus …..”

    And as if its natural to be able to create a note in perfect handwritten English yet require an interpreter being present whilst being asked if she wants an abortion.

    The Lefties have clearly hijacked this woman and are taking great delight in creating a story when there is not enough to get a headline

  344. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 6:02 pm

    “Operation Fortitude: Border Force officers planned to target taxi stands and conduct visa checks “bi-monthly”….”

    So what. Sydney Airport taxi stand cops a blitz quite often. Nothing new

  345. Walrus permalink
    October 20, 2015 6:17 pm

    “But it isn’t … you have to pay …”

    Yes it is and no you dont.

    You have to venture inside the ferry to get a ticket . You could easily go a few stops without one or even an entire lap of the River without one.

    And the Fucking Ferry info kiosks dont sell fucking tix plus on board the ferry you must pay cash. No cards taken at all

  346. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 6:31 pm

    And as if its natural to be able to create a note in perfect handwritten English yet require an interpreter being present whilst being asked if she wants an abortion.

    Is he fkn medically qualified to be doing the asking?

    Did she write the note herself or did someone else [with better written & verbal english] write it as dictated by her?

    Did she have a choice in this interview walrus? Did she give an informed consent, knowing who he is and what he does? Was she allowed to seek advice beforehand?

    The main concern here is whether she was given an option to refuse kenny’s ‘visit’. This is certainly not in her best interests unless kenny also happens to be a sexual assault councillor.
    No other proper reporters allowed into the place, ever, but murdoch spinner chris kenny, a fkn aggressive male at the best of times, is given free rein to interrogate a victim of rape and govt negligence being forcibly detained.

    This is abuse heaped upon abuse as far as I’m concerned and really is an outrage that I hope we hear a lot more about.

  347. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 7:04 pm

    Next we’ll have andrew bolt going into remote aboriginal communities and ‘interviewing’ them on aboriginal identity.

    I haven’t checked into andrew’s blog lately, I do hope he vented his fury and fear at this:

  348. Tom R permalink
    October 20, 2015 7:12 pm

    Imagine the outrage is this was an aboriginal guy with an imaginary spear?

    jeebus wept 😦

  349. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 20, 2015 7:33 pm

    Immigration staff told a Senate committee that over the period from March 24, 2014 to September 29, 2015, the regional processing centre recorded 14 sexual assaults, 213 physical assaults and 798 occurrences of abusive and/or aggressive behaviour.

    You know i believe most lefties only care about this because the Coalition is in power. Worse than that was going on under Rudd/Gillard but not many people cared.

  350. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 7:35 pm

    And as if its natural to be able to create a note in perfect handwritten English yet require an interpreter being present whilst being asked if she wants an abortion.

    I confess to uttering a similar comment to, The Minister, last night …

    However … the actions/comments of Dopey Dutton really should see the bastard sacked!*

    You have to venture inside the ferry to get a ticket . You could easily go a few stops without one or even an entire lap of the River without one.

    erm … “venture” inside … venture?

    Of course you could easily go a few stops … BUT Queenslanders don’t! That’s Mexican thinking … 🙂

    *I confess to thinking Peter Dutton – who tracks people’s personal information without permission – is a twat of the highest order … and should be given the job of gluing broken/damaged/smashed marble table tops together again …

    http://www.peterdutton.com.au/PrivacyPolicyDisclaimer/tabid/67/Default.aspx

  351. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 20, 2015 7:42 pm

    RE Adam Goodes

    I think I’ll pop into David Jones tomorrow and buy something, I heard someone comment that it’s great that we won’t have to put up with racists in that store anymore.

  352. TB Queensland permalink
    October 20, 2015 8:23 pm

    FFS!

  353. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 20, 2015 8:47 pm

    Yep, I think tomorrow I’ll buy a DJ shirt!

    A non racist one.

  354. armchair opinionator permalink
    October 20, 2015 9:46 pm

    heh, I guess I could go in there too since mark mcinnes the sex harasser is gone and non racist sth africans now own david jones!

  355. October 21, 2015 12:23 am

    hey splatters, ya`might want to check dates of links dropped instead of looking foolish .. your link is `2010` on cayman `treaty` .. team-cheerer is correct .. his `2014` links says cayman `courts` reneged on the `treaty`

    #Fcuking ignoramus!

  356. Tom R permalink
    October 21, 2015 9:32 am

    A little late, but finally, somebody speaks what should have been spoken by those other than Labor

    Labor’s efforts to attack Malcolm Turnbull’s wealth and Cayman investments may have been received poorly by the media, but they’re right to pursue him for it, argues Ben Eltham.
    …………….
    “There is one reason people invest in the Cayman Islands – so they don’t have to play by the same rules as the rest of us,” Senator Dastyari declaimed.

    “Every time the Liberal Party votes against tax transparency, remember there is [a]house in the Cayman Islands — a house where Malcolm’s money resides.” Labor followed up with questions in the House.
    …………..
    The reluctance to question Turnbull’s finances is strange. Just three years ago, the media was enthusiastic in its support of the Coalition’s assault on Julia Gillard’s character, and her personal conduct as a solicitor two decades before taking office. Similar interest has been shown in Bill Shorten’s years as a trade union boss.

    Nothing like that sort of interest has been shown in Malcolm Turnbull’s checkered past as a businessman and politician. Not to put too fine a point on things, it’s been a bit of a love-in.

    Now, apparently, it’s out of bounds to question Turnbull on his personal finances. That’s rather inconsistent with the media’s typical views on the need to ask questions of elected officials. It may not be good politics to attack Turnbull because of his wealth. But that is an entirely different proposition to the argument that Turnbull’s wealth shouldn’t be a topic of debate.

    https://newmatilda.com/2015/10/20/why-labor-are-right-to-chase-turnbulls-wealth/

    But the rest of the msm would rather attack Labor for raising a very valid point, and call it “class war”

    And this is WHY Labor are linking him. Yea, let the guy who is stashing cash in a secretive tax haven attack the Industry Funds that are out performing his mates

  357. October 21, 2015 9:35 am

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  358. TB Queensland permalink
    October 21, 2015 9:40 am

    LOL! Keating … my favourite pollie of two centuries … !

  359. TB Queensland permalink
    October 21, 2015 9:44 am

    And this is WHY Labor are linking him. Yea, let the guy who is stashing cash in a secretive tax haven attack the Industry Funds that are out performing his mates

    That is absolutely true …

    Nothing has changed …

    But we are slowly seeing the reason a multi-millionaire wants to be PM ….

    It is perpetration of the 1% hold on the 50% of wealth … at the expense of the plebs!

    Leave my super management alone!

  360. TB Queensland permalink
    October 21, 2015 9:44 am

    Don’t Liberals and Uber capitalists hate competition!

    ROBBER BARONS at play!

  361. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 21, 2015 10:12 am

    Retardland, you might want to look at my 2015 links. And try not to accept Fairfax blatherings as gospel rather than looking a little deeper at all the facts and thinking for yourself.

  362. October 21, 2015 5:46 pm

    lt was good to see eleventy exiled to washington this week for never producing a `surplus` teabags, but on the down-side, washington is returning `blib-senior`.

  363. Tom R permalink
    October 21, 2015 7:15 pm

    Retardland, you might want to look at my 2015 links.

    You mean the ones that didn’t dispute the fact that, when challenged, the Caymans showed that they are a still a secretive tax haven?

  364. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2015 6:38 am

  365. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2015 9:56 am

    “Yea, let the guy who is stashing cash in a secretive tax haven attack the Industry Funds that are out performing his mates”

    ROFLMAO

    Dear oh dear………..I hope he does’nt use the UK or NZ or Japan too etc…….etc…………etc

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven#List_of_tax_havens_and_countries_of_financial_secrecy

  366. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 23, 2015 11:05 am

    “You mean the ones that didn’t dispute the fact that, when challenged, the Caymans showed that they are a still a secretive tax haven?”

    That is not a reasonable characterisation of the links I posted.

    If you want to have an honest discussion about this (unlikely given your stream of lies regarding the Thomson case) then you need to take some time to look at the actions of the Cayman government in setting up their Department for International Tax Co-operation (which was one of the links), the measures they have taken to deliver information to Australia (which was actually delivered and used by the ATO to prosecute tax evaders) as well as the cases bought by Cayman taxpayers to test the new law and the decision of the Cayman government to contest those and other cases and to continue to provide information to foreign governments.

    None of that is exceptional and none of it supports the ignorant and moronic approach you have taken. I don’t expect you to change from your sloganeering. You chose that modus operandi long ago, rejecting the option to consider issues in a balanced way. Good for you if you get off on smears and sneers. Just don’t expect to be taken seriously. You decisively rejected that possibility with your Thomson trolling.

    So, Tom R, you can keep on trolling or you can try to actually understand what is going on with the Caymans EOI agreements. Either way I am not going to spend another second on your comments on this matter. I wasted at least a day correcting your errors on Thomson and I feel dirty enough having been sucked into duck-diving into that sewer of your lies.

  367. October 23, 2015 11:28 am

    “” sewer of your lies.”””

  368. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2015 11:29 am

    Oh come on Splatter that’s a bit unfair to our resident Troll and his Queensland sidekick.

    They are simply under instructions to run interference over trivial matters like how some mushroom workers were screwed over by Bill Shithead and his Union cronies

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/chiquita-mushroom-workers-say-they-were-in-the-dark-and-dudded-by-bill-shortens-union-20151021-gkep7j.html

  369. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2015 11:51 am

    That is not a reasonable characterisation of the links I posted.

    The links you posted did not in any way dispute the fact that, once challenged, the Caymans Islands have shown that they will keep a persons dealing their secret. One of your links even alluded to it with wtte “won all cases bar ONE”

    Which one was that?

    And, yes, the Caymans did INITIALLY release details, as the link I put up stated, in accordance with the agreement, But he THEN challenged it, AND WON, which means, no more details for you.

    I see wally is pushing the chiquita mushroom bullshit.

    I wonder if those workers, who were complaining about their debilitating pains from their previous work there, thank the Union for preventing future employees from that pain?

    Isn’t it funny though. People who were complaining about Unions stifling Industry and giving workers too much, now complain when Unions negotiate deals that saves not only jobs, but the companies that supply those jobs.

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/15/1089694492901.html?from=storylhs

  370. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2015 12:08 pm

    I am absolutely fucking outraged………………..there goes the neighbourhood.

    This has never ever happened in this part of Palm Beach

    Mrs Walrus has just walked in and stated that one of these has been left abandoned at the corner of our street.

    It’s an outrage

  371. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2015 12:14 pm

    Perhaps it has been left there on purpose for use as target practice by 4wd owners who are missing the cyclists wally?

  372. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2015 12:28 pm

    “Perhaps it has been left there on purpose ……………”

    There can only be one purpose.

    A real estate agent told me once that he decides on how desirable an area is by the absence of abandoned shopping trolleys.

    Therefore someone is obviously looking to pick up a distressed sale by driving down prices.

  373. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2015 12:57 pm

    Well, if you can believe what turc says

    But yes, they have added on an extra week to yesterdays week thy added on.

    Thursday 29–Friday 30 CFMEU NSW & QLD Sydney

    And next week is all ………… yep, Shorten!

    Bet theirabc is out carping on about “front the media”

    muppets

    Speaking of which

    The Sydney storage facility where key “lost” documents sought by the royal commission into trade unions were stored is operated by one of the world’s most secure document storage groups.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/investigations/union-royal-commission-files-lost-at-world-class-secure-facility/story-fng5kxvh-1227579121179

    it just doesn’t occur to these muppets that perhaps, just perhaps, the documents never fucking existed?

    So, in order to drag Shortens name through the mud, turc and their media mates are quite happy to drag a totally unrelated companies reputation through the mud with them. And a company like Recall survives on it’s reputation.

    No article I have read points out that, not withstanding what an IPA shrill is shrilling, nothing at all disproves Shortenss or Melhams’s account of events. Even from others within the company. But we don’t hear that, do we, all we hear is “lost” documents, “shredded” documents.

    Perhaps we need to revisit

    don’t we, as journalists, owe it to the public and our craft, to treat the evidence sceptically, probe the bona fides of those airing the allegations, and form some independent narratives out of this inquiry?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-22/long-why-is-no-one-questioning-the-turc-narrative/6868102

  374. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2015 1:35 pm

    “But we don’t hear that, do we, all we hear is “lost” documents, “shredded” documents.”

    You conveniently left out “banners over CCTV” cameras………………………obviously you accidentally left that bit out

  375. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2015 1:39 pm

    Ok, so (at the moment)

    The trade union royal commission has signalled it has no plans to recall the Labor leader, Bill Shorten

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/23/trade-union-inquiry-no-intention-to-question-bill-shorten-further

    Mind you, they HAD planned to finish it today, and had “no plans” for anything else, until they did. Is the CFMEU QLD designed to coincide with the court action over the CFMEU QLD cleaning it’s offices? And, I did jump the gun above, it is only one more week of accusations inquiries.

    I did like this though from the end of another accusation echo piece.

    Later in the afternoon, Mr Stoljar put it to him that he was improving the position of the union at the expense of the members.

    Mr Melhem snapped back, saying: “No one is saying this money went to me or Bill Shorten or any other officials. It went to the union. The members own the union, for Christ’s sake”.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/cesar-melhem-denies-awu-issued-bogus-invoices-20151021-gkfcuy.html#ixzz3pLuXn296
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

  376. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2015 1:44 pm

    obviously you accidentally left that bit out

    Of course, the fact that people are just skylarking didn’t cross your mind, or, (as seems to be more the case) some douche is playing it up FOR the cameras. As the actual person who got blamed for it said, it’s on a busy major road, very open. You cannot hide that.

    And the fact that, in a week of a major clean-out, that was the only time it happened.

    Or the fact that turc sent their email late in the day on the final day of the clean-out.

    Details details. But you stick to that one, just like the papers do, whilst leaving out all the others

  377. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2015 2:06 pm

    “The members own the union, for Christ’s sake”…..”

    Really………….not from the view on the street………….better ask those retrenched mushroom workers……………………see what they reckon

  378. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2015 2:58 pm

    not from the view on the street

    That’s because the view from the street is led by the view created in the media

    better ask those retrenched mushroom workers

    Ask them about their sore fucken backs!

  379. October 23, 2015 3:09 pm

    Turnbull supported as Liberal Leader by 64% while Shorten (9%) is fourth choice as ALP Leader behind Plibersek, Albanese & Swan…

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6519-preferred-leaders-liberal-labor-october-2015-201510230327

  380. TB Queensland permalink
    October 23, 2015 3:32 pm

    Mrs Walrus has just walked in and stated that one of these has been left abandoned at the corner of our street.

    I see you managed to nicked all the groceries tho’, Wally …

  381. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2015 3:40 pm

    “Shorten (9%) is fourth choice as ALP Leader behind Plibersek, Albanese & Swan…”

    Pretty clear that the ALP has HUGE problems if Swan is still in the mix

  382. Walrus permalink
    October 23, 2015 3:41 pm

    “Ask them about their sore fucken backs!”

    Being retrenched thanks to the AWU and with so much spare time now should heal their spines real good

  383. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 23, 2015 3:54 pm

    Pretty clear that the ALP has HUGE problems if Swan is still in the mix

    Labor supporters think Swan is a hero because he saved us from the GFC by his stimulus spending.

    And you wonder why i am so anti-ALP.

  384. October 23, 2015 3:54 pm

    Look it’s not all bad news for Bill. For every nine voters that don’t want him as leader there’s one that does.

  385. Tom R permalink
    October 23, 2015 4:41 pm

    For every nine.1 voters that don’t want him as leader there’s 0.9 that does.

    Fixed it fer ya reb 😉

  386. TB Queensland permalink
    October 23, 2015 6:10 pm

    Vacuum Economics!

    THE big four banks have all hiked their variable mortgage interest rates, spelling more pain for Australian homeowners.

    ANZ has just joined National Australia Bank, Westpac and Commonwealth Bank in raising its variable rate home loan rates by 18 basis points to 5.56 per cent from November 20.

    It follows NAB’s announcement this morning of a 17 basis point hike, to take effect from November 12.

    The Commonwealth Bank yesterday raised its variable rate by 15 basis points to 5.6 per cent for owner occupier home loans, after Westpac’s shock decision last week to hike rates by 20 basis points to 5.68 per cent, out of cycle with the Reserve Bank of Australia.

    The banks have blamed the need to hike rates on market conditions and regulatory changes, which require them to hold more capital to prevent another financial crisis.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/10/14/malcolm-turnbulls-secret-cayman-islands-cash-stash/#comment-117691

    Dont’cha luv competition!

    ROBBER BARONS at work!

  387. October 23, 2015 6:16 pm

    blubbers”””Pretty clear that the ALP has HUGE problems if Swan is still in the mix”””

    #l would agree with you blubbers if it was a members/onion choice, however,

    roy says `Topic: Public Opinion Special Poll`

    which means it`s beyond the `control` of teabag-lite, and you know how fickle the punters are, and it`s their fault (never-the-team)

  388. April 22, 2016 8:24 pm

    MALCOLM TURNBALL PUT YOURSELF IN THE SHOES OF THE FATHER OF THIS CHILD ITS PATERNITY FRAUD IDENTITY FRAUD AND RELIGIOUS FRAUD THE ULTIMATE BETRAYAL EVEN USING THIS SAME SEX MARRIAGE IN A GAMBLING SITE. SHOW WHAT YOUR WORTH SET AN EXAMPLE AND ARREST THESE PEOPLE DOING THIS ITS A SERIOUS CRIMINAL OFFENCE BEYOND WORDS SHOW YOUR A MAN OF HONOUR. YOU HAVE BEEN GIVING A CHANCE BEFORE IT DESTROYS YOUR REPUTATION COMPLETELY FOR LIFE

  389. April 23, 2016 9:00 am

    Dom makes a lot of sense.

  390. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    April 23, 2016 10:40 am

    SHOW YOUR A MAN OF HONOUR

    I think you mean – YOU’RE

  391. TB Queensland permalink
    April 23, 2016 10:59 am

    Dom makes a lot of sense.

    Thank goodness it does to you … could you translate please?

    ToM cleared Your and You’re for me … but … HAVE BEEN GIVING A CHANCE … is confusing?

    Ah! Dom … is it Latin?

  392. dom fammartino permalink
    October 12, 2016 12:56 pm

    Most of those wanting same sex marriage are totally inconsiderate of anyone who does not want it. The same “Gay” brigade are not gay but very angry that some do not want what they want and they are coming out with many wild claims without any evidence to support the claims. If they get same sex marriage they will feel more powerful and make more demands. I hope that there are enough Australians out there that want to respect marriage and the family to say no to same sex marriage. AND FOR PEOPLE WHO DONT UNDERSTAND GOD DOES NOT CONDONE GAY MARRIAGES! He clearly states it is an abomination, and he destroyed Sodom and Gorrmorhea and did not allow even children to escape!! The Sovereign Creator does not bless what deems blasphemous and an abominable!! It is lowly and detestable to our creator to see men or women in an unholy bonding. Mankind pushes ever so dangerously past guide lines at there own peril. Truth is every where in the bible; when are going to stop saying GAY IS NORMAL!!? YOU can make decisions against God’s will? Homosexual orientation is NOT natural. It is from our fallen nature, initiated from Original Sin. Same sex attraction in itself is not necessarily a sin, unless homosexual persons engage in or give their desire to homosexual acts. That is a grave sin, and sin of great depravity (read your Catechism if you don’t believe me). If you don’t believe what the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, then you are not a practicing Catholic. Dr. Scott Hahn calls that “cafeteria Catholicism” – thinking you can pick and choose what you want to believe. That is the definition of heresy. You need to open your heart to better formation, or you become complicit in others’ sins – which is also a mortal sin.

  393. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 12, 2016 1:42 pm

    “Dr. Scott Hahn calls that “cafeteria Catholicism”

    So you know TB! He knows quite a lot about both katliks and cafeterias

  394. October 12, 2016 3:17 pm

    “The same “Gay” brigade are not gay but very angry”

    We call them “Big Queer” around these parts.

    You could at least try and be consistent.

    Aside from that, your argument makes a lot of sense.

  395. TB Queensland permalink
    October 12, 2016 3:31 pm

    Well FMD! Finally someone who doesn’t just believe but can articulate God’s will!

    I once was blind and now can see! Hallelujah!

    I agree with you, sreb, the argument does make a lot of sense … impressive!

    What can I say … finally I understand!

    (I notice ToM didn’t correct grammar and spelling – I suppose it was such a spellbinding treatise)

    WOW! Just WOW!

  396. October 12, 2016 4:15 pm

    “If you don’t believe what the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, then you are not a practicing Catholic. ”

    Kind of stating the obvious.

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