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The Gathering Financial Storm

November 4, 2015

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Governments are liberating global corporations from the rule of law and leaving them to rip the world apart, writes George Monbiot…

What have governments learned from the financial crisis? I could write a column spelling it out. Or I could do the same job with one word: nothing.

Actually, that’s too generous. The lessons learned are counter-lessons, anti-knowledge, new policies that could scarcely be better designed to ensure the crisis recurs, this time with added momentum and fewer remedies.

And the financial crisis is just one of the multiple crises – in tax collection, public spending, public health and, above all, ecology – that the same counter-lessons accelerate.

Step back a pace and you see that all these crises arise from the same cause. Players with huge power and global reach are released from democratic restraint. This happens because of a fundamental corruption at the core of politics.

In almost every nation the interests of economic elites tend to weigh more heavily with governments than do those of the electorate.

Banks, corporations and landowners wield an unaccountable power, which works with a nod and a wink within the political class. Global governance is beginning to look like a never-ending Bilderberg meeting.

As a paper by the law professor Joel Bakan in the Cornell International Law Journal argues, two dire shifts have been happening simultaneously.

On one hand governments have been removing laws that restrict banks and corporations, arguing that globalisation makes states weak and effective legislation impossible. Instead, they say, we should trust those who wield economic power to regulate themselves.

On the other hand, the same governments devise draconian new laws to reinforce elite power. Corporations are given the rights of legal persons. Their property rights are enhanced.

Those who protest against them are subject to policing and surveillance – the kind that’s more appropriate to dictatorships than democracies. Oh, state power still exists all right – when it’s wanted.

Many of you will have heard of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). These are supposed to be trade treaties, but they have little to do with trade, and much to do with power.

They enhance the power of corporations while reducing the power of parliaments and the rule of law.

They could scarcely be better designed to exacerbate and universalise our multiple crises – financial, social and environmental. But something even worse is coming, the result of negotiations conducted, once more, in secret: a Trade in Services Agreement (TiSA), covering North America, the EU, Japan, Australia and many other nations.

Only through WikiLeaks do we have any idea of what is being planned. It could be used to force nations to accept new financial products and services, to approve the privatisation of public services and to reduce the standards of care and provision.

It looks like the greatest international assault on democracy devised in the past two decades. Which is saying quite a lot.

So the self-hating state proclaims that it has no power while destroying its own capacity to legislate.– internationally and at home, as if the last financial crisis had not occurred, and as if unaware of what caused it, George Osborne, in his most recent speech to the City of London, told his audience of bankers that “a central demand in our renegotiation is that Europe stops costly and damaging regulation”.

David Cameron has boasted of running “the first government in modern history that at the end of its parliamentary term has less regulation in place than there was at the beginning”.

This, in a world of accelerating complexity and booming corporate crime, is pure recklessness. But fear not, they say: economic power no longer needs to be subject to the rule of law. It can regulate itself.

Some of us have long suspected that this is bunkum with bells on. But until now, suspicion is all we’ve had. This week the first global review of self-regulation is published.

It was commissioned by Britain’s Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, but it covers every sector from payday lenders to dog breeders. And it shows that in almost all cases – 82% of the 161 schemes it assessed, voluntary measures have failed.

For instance, when the European Union sought to reduce the number of pedestrians and cyclists killed by vehicles, it could simply have passed a law instructing the vehicle manufacturers to change the way they designed their bumpers and bonnets, at a cost of roughly €30 a car. Instead, it relied on a voluntary agreement with the industry. The result was a 75% lower level of protection than a law would have delivered.

The EU claims it will create millions of jobs and bring down the cost of living – but others say it is a threat to public services such as the NHS.

When the Welsh government introduced a 5p charge for plastic bags, it cut their use by 80% overnight. The Westminster government claimed that self-regulation by the retailers would do the job just as well. The result? A grand reduction of 6%.

After seven wasted years, it succumbed last month to the obvious logic, and introduced a charge.

Voluntary schemes designed to prevent the advertising of junk food to children in Spain, to cut greenhouse gases in Canada, to save water in California, to save albatrosses from long-liners in New Zealand, to protect cosmetic surgery patients in the UK, to stop the aggressive marketing of psychiatric medicines in Sweden: fail, fail, fail, fail.

What the state could have done with a stroke of the pen cheaply and effectively is left instead to the fumbling efforts of industries that, even when sincere, are fatally undermined by free riders and opportunists.

In several cases, companies begged for new laws to raise standards throughout the industry.

For example, those who make plastic silage wrappings for farmers tried to get the UK government to raise the recycling rate, while garden companies wanted regulations to phase out the use of peat.

The governments refused. Was this the result of blind ideology or grubby self-interest – or both? The biggest donors to political parties tend to be the worst operators, using their money to keep malpractice legal (consider Enron).

Because the parties they fund bow to their wishes, everyone else is forced to adopt their low standards. I suspect that governments know as well as anyone that law is more efficient and effective than self-regulation, which is why it is not used.

Restraining the electorate, releasing the powerful: this is a perfectly designed formula for a multidimensional crisis. And boy, are we reaping it.

~ George Joshua Richard Monbiot is a British writer, known for his environmental and political activism.

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474 Comments leave one →
  1. Walrus permalink
    November 4, 2015 2:02 pm

    “George Joshua Richard Monbiot is a British writer, known for his environmental and political activism.”

    George Joshua Richard Monbiot is a British writer, known for being an idiot.

    There………………..fixed it !

  2. TB Queensland permalink
    November 4, 2015 2:36 pm

    I know who the idiot is …

    just checked the calendar it is 2015 … perhaps the novel 1984 should be renamed 2016 …

    Monbiot is spot on … anyone … and I mean anyone … who can’t see that will suffer the consequences … eventually …

  3. November 4, 2015 2:44 pm

    It’s happening here too..

    Remember it wasn’t all that long ago that Abbott wanted to introduce laws that would make it illegal for people to protest against corporations. The TiSA takes that a step closer to becoming a reality:


    “These treaties will have huge, huge implications, literally for almost every critical issue that an individual citizen or community would care about,” she says. “Health, education, the environment, privacy, access to medicines, I mean the list could go on.”

    One of the most criticized aspects is a system called the investors states dispute settlement or ISDS. This is secretive international tribunal that allows companies to sue states for anything that they can claim affects their investment.

    “If a protest affects their profits, they can sue,”

    https://hacked.com/tpp-ttip-tisa-secret-trade-negotiations-threaten-government-sovereignty-individual-rights/

  4. Walrus permalink
    November 4, 2015 4:50 pm

    “I know who the idiot is … ”

    Yeah…….the bloke staring back at you whilst you sit staring into the pond

    “On one hand governments have been removing laws that restrict banks and corporations, ”

    What utter fucking bullshit…………….http://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/murray-inquiry-puts-australias-future-finances-under-the-microscope-20131220-2zqsh.html

    Instituted and now released by the LNP

    And more………..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel_III#U.S._implementation

    And more……….https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel_III#Europe_implementation

    Monbiot is a serial writer of bullshit

  5. November 4, 2015 5:44 pm

    “”What utter fucking bullshit…””

    Says the accountant.

    And of course there was nothing sinister about the cartel like behaviour of the major banks all raising interest rates recently within days of each other – independent of any move by the RBA..

    Nah, nothing to see here at all… *rolls eyes*

  6. Walrus permalink
    November 4, 2015 5:50 pm

    Roll ya eyes all you want…….

    Monbiot was also an advocate of Scottish Independence.

    How would Scotland be now with its “precious” North Sea oil and a fucked up oil price ?

  7. Walrus permalink
    November 4, 2015 5:53 pm

    “…the major banks all raising interest rates recently within days of each other ”

    There are plenty of lenders who have much lower rates than the banks. Some even guarantee to only move in tandem on all cuts by the RBA .

    If you are too lazy to hunt around then I”ll roll my eyes too

  8. TB Queensland permalink
    November 4, 2015 6:31 pm

    You know there is a real issue when Wally gets shrill(er than usual) …

    Chortle …

  9. November 4, 2015 7:02 pm

    Ditto, l agree with george on his financial-political points of destructive stupidity. l would also point-out there are more topics of stupidity being ignored and denied as risks, other than financial. These idiot Govts are wasting money `and` time on inferior `systems` (F-35,nbn) that will be out-dated or fail when needed, unprepared for epidemics, and stripping their countries of skills, not to mention planet-abuse. Sooner or later they will come unstuck.

  10. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 5, 2015 5:31 am

    On one hand governments have been removing laws that restrict banks and corporations, arguing that globalisation makes states weak and effective legislation impossible. Instead, they say, we should trust those who wield economic power to regulate themselves.

    If this is true this has happened mainly under socialist govts.

    Here in Australia Hawke/Keating deregulated the banking industry. I remember those times. SA State Bank, Pyramid Building Society, State Bank of Victoria all collapsed under Hawke/Keating.

    Costello re-regulated he banking sysytem

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Prudential_Regulation_Authority

    The Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA) is a statutory authority of the Australian Government and the prudential regulator of the Australian financial services industry. APRA was established on 1 July 1998 in response to the recommendations of the Wallis Inquiry. ……..In June 1996, the Financial System Inquiry (known as the Wallis Inquiry) was established to examine the results of the deregulation of the Australian financial system

  11. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 5, 2015 10:15 am

    Monbiot is spot on … anyone … and I mean anyone … who can’t see that will suffer the consequences … eventually …

    I agree TB.

    We urgently need a RC into the financial sector – why isn’t anyone interested?
    Our regulatory agencies are a joke. Government makes a huge fuss about asylum seekers and petty thieving or drug selling so we are distracted into thinking they actuallly do something useful for us, while the corporate thieves and rogues are getting away with blue murder [assisted by the govt].

    The biggest threat to society are the corporations, our governments have acquiesced to their greed. Government is owned by them. The elites [the rich and wealthy] have always had the laws designed in their interests, this has happened right from the beginning, from the time when only male landowners were allowed to vote.

    Nothing has changed.

    People could try reading some naomi klein or naomi oreskes instead of the financial market news. The canaries are singing loudly and george monbiot has been doing so for many years.

    George Joshua Richard Monbiot is a British writer, known for being an idiot

    That’s the way those invested in capitalism and wealth creation speak of anyone who tries to warn of the dangers and ruinous, predatory practices of the corporate psychopaths and monsters.

    This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. The Climate:
    http://www.amazon.com/This-Changes-Everything-Capitalism-Climate/dp/1451697392/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1BVSZRM774ZQC16JN0AY

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Shock-Doctrine-Disaster-Capitalism/dp/0312427999/ref=pd_sim_14_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=412RLzPJ8lL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR99%2C160_&refRID=0VAXAABYGGFN68B1V1Z6

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Collapse-Western-Civilization-Future/dp/023116954X/ref=pd_sim_14_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=51sqx7Yf4yL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR113%2C160_&refRID=0TP1JZE99CPZ1N4V51PH

  12. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 5, 2015 10:20 am

    If this is true this has happened mainly under socialist govts.

    It is true that you really are the most boring and monotonous troll, you can be counted on to bring every debate down to the level of kindergarten name calling. It is true that your brain has been idle for so long that it no longer works.

  13. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 5, 2015 10:25 am

    “What have governments learned from the financial crisis? I could write a column spelling it out. Or I could do the same job with one word: nothing.”

    Absolutely. The GFC was driven by “predatory lending”. Banks lending to people who could ill afford it. NINJA loans (no income, no job, no assets) they were called.

    That came about mostly due to government action – the Community Re-investment Act, pressure and law suits from ACORN and shakedown merchants like Jesse Jackson.

    Get ready for more of the same. Dumb-fuck leftists pushing for uncommercial loans. And when it all comes tumbling down again it will be called predatory lending and the banks will cop the blame.

    Dog-fucking leftists have so much to answer for when it comes to the black community in the US. The black family survived slavery and Jim Crow, but has been unable to survive the welfare state. Black educational achievement has fallen following all the preferences, quotas and special allowances. It is time to stop with the miserabilist identity politics of the left and just treat people as people.

    The entire leftist project is based on hubris and vanity – that excellent high-minded morally superior leftists can help “little brown people” have better lives. The real motivating factor of leftists is seeming to do good and, in the process, feeling morally superior. That is why they are happy enough to see thousands drown rather than admit that they fucked up big time purely because of their moral vanity.

    Leftists will always detest their own society – purely so that they can feel morally superior. That is precisely why the Greens are a party of narcissist tyrants.

  14. November 5, 2015 10:29 am

    “”Dog-fucking leftists””

    Yes, but what do you really think?

  15. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 5, 2015 10:32 am

    “Awash in cost over-runs and red ink”: Kiwis sledge Australia’s NBN
    https://delimiter.com.au/2015/10/27/awash-in-cost-over-runs-and-red-ink-kiwis-sledge-australias-nbn/

    …in contrast with New Zealand, Australia’s fibre rollout was “awash in cost over-runs and red ink”. “We completed our fibre-to-the-cabinet network in 2011, covering around 80 percent of the population.””

    Well, there it is, Australia. Earlier this year we were sledged by Singaporean telco MyRepublic, who claimed Australia had “completely stuffed” our “shit” NBN, and now New Zealand is getting stuck into us as well. You know you’ve really screwed something up when bit players like Singapore and New Zealand are able to get one up on Australia without breaking a sweat…

  16. November 5, 2015 10:37 am

    “”The GFC was driven by “predatory lending”. Banks lending to people who could ill afford it. NINJA loans (no income, no job, no assets) they were called.””

    So how is this the fault of the “dog fucking leftists?”

    It was the banks and the fat cats that run them that were happy to package up dodgy investment schemes and flog them off to mum and dad investors who had no idea they were buying duds.

    It’s the fascist capitalists that were (and still are) running the ponzi scheme and all the promises of tougher regulation of the finance system in the US following the 2008 crash amounted to naught.

    In fact, the banks in the US have successfully argued against any further regulation that would ward off a repeat of 2008. And that’s all part n parcel of the new trade agreements currently being negotiated under secrecy.

    The US banks will lend money to anything with a pulse and then call upon the govt (ie the taxpayer) to bail them out when their ponzi scheme goes belly up.

    Why you think this is somehow the fault of “”leftists”” is beyond me.

  17. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 5, 2015 10:53 am

    Dog-fucking leftists

    I always think of chris kenny and the bolt/blairites/devine crowd as the extreme right.

    …And when it all comes tumbling down again it will be called predatory lending and the banks will cop the blame…

    And it will all come tumbling down again & again & again, as it always does, because they have changed nothing in the system and they reward the criminals when they should have been jailed for their crimes.

    It is very clear that the banks were at fault for the GFC and no amount of blaming the victims [the poor] or the government will absolve them of their guilt. Governments are complicit in that they serve the corporations and allow them free rein and then they bail them out with taxpayers money.

    Who is to Blame for the Financial Crisis
    http://www.economicpredictions.org/who-is-to-blame-for-the-financial-crisis.htm

  18. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 5, 2015 11:00 am

    Why you think this is somehow the fault of “”leftists”” is beyond me.

    When you listen to bolt and co and the murdoch news megaphones , everything will always come down to being the fault of ‘teh leftists’ that’s just a given in any debate.

    The propaganda is the important thing, never let a opportunity go by to give a kick to the ‘enemies’.

  19. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 5, 2015 11:04 am

    “”Dog-fucking leftists””

    I was trying to differentiate so as not to slur all leftists. Two of my heroes, George Orwell and Christopher Hitchens were leftists, but I’m pretty sure my pooch would be safe with them. Lee Rhiannon, on the other hand, should be kept well away from the dog pound, particularly when she has her strap-on with her.

    “Why you think this is somehow the fault of “”leftists”” is beyond me.”

    There is plenty of blame to go around with the GFC – the failure of ratings organisations, the incentive structure of banks to reward sales staff for writing risky loans. The role of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac (those cesspits for Democrat corruptocrats) in guaranteeing mortgages. And high up the list were the leftists pressuring (including by legislation) banks to make sub-prime loans. The fact that leftist dog-fuckers are at it again is what brought on my little outburst!

    The thing that really galls me is that because of the bail-out (implemented by Bush and then Obama) the bank executives retained their jobs, kept their bonuses and paid no price for their epic greed-driven incompetence. And it is the same Wall Street cabal having a bet each way, telling us everything will be all right just as long as either Klintoon or Bush gets to be the next president.

  20. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 5, 2015 11:09 am

    It is true that your brain has been idle for so long that it no longer works.

    It was Hawke/Keating who deregulated the banking industry in Australia. Costello re-regulated it with APRA.

    I think it was the same overseas. Bill Clinton did the same in the USA. It was socialist govts who caused the trouble.

    Our banks are much safer thanks to Costello.

  21. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 5, 2015 11:10 am

    “And it will all come tumbling down again & again & again, as it always does, because they have changed nothing in the system and” leftists are again pressuring banks to make uneconomic loans, playing identity politics and doing their level best to completely fuck up society. Why not destroy all corporations? Then there would be no cars, no electronics, no clothes, no housing and no food. There would be social anarchy and the death of vast numbers of people – the leftist dream come true. Imagine all the caring they could do then?

  22. November 5, 2015 11:13 am

    “”And high up the list were the leftists pressuring (including by legislation) banks to make sub-prime loans.””

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the “leftists” weren’t demanding anything.

    It’s the right wing capitalists that sold the dodgy loans and investment schemes and masqueraded them as “sound investments.”

  23. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 5, 2015 11:30 am

    “Sorry to burst your bubble, but the “leftists” weren’t demanding anything. “

    So, the Community Re-Investment Act had no role in it?

    The point of the link in my initial post was to show that the lefties are at it again.

  24. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 5, 2015 11:49 am

    It was Hawke/Keating who deregulated the banking industry in Australia. Costello re-regulated it with APRA.

    So you think that the financial sector should be regulated neil?

    So do I, heavily regulated.

    Both sides of politics have succumbed to the ideology of neoliberalism and lassez faire economics with the mythical ‘trickle down’ with gusto.

    That is why the electorate has lost out, that is why our wishes are completely ignored.

    Everyone dances to the tune of the banks.

  25. November 5, 2015 11:54 am

    @SB

    I accept one part of your argument about the lapse lending standards making borrowing available to almost anyone with a pulse regardless of their ability to pay back the loan.

    However another significant cause of the GFC (which Carney ignores) is that when the lending institutions came to the realisation that they were holding high risk loans they packaged those up and sold them off to mum and dad investors as sound investments.

    I don’t think you can blame consumers for taking up an offer that was orchestrated by the banks and govt working in collusion. To suggest that this demand was driven by lefties is just nonsense. It was driven by the banks and their pure greed to shore up more customers and market share in a highly competitive market with few barriers to entry from an end consumer perspective.

    The only difference now is that rather than the banks going cap in hand to govts to ask for a a bail out when the next GFC invariably happens, but instead they are now reserving the right to sue govts if their profits fall due to any new legislation that’s designed to protect consumers from their predatory behaviour.

  26. November 5, 2015 11:59 am

    “”So do I, heavily regulated””

    Fortunately (as Walrus mentioned the other day), our banking system is fairly regulated in Australia, although one has to wonder about the way in which they all move together to increase interest rates as a group.

    But allowing the market to regulate itself is almost always a recipe for disaster (which is one of the main points of Monbiot’s article), and yet rather than rein in the financial institutions and their predatory behaviour, in the US and UK they’re actually giving the banks more power and control to do whatever the hell they want…

  27. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 5, 2015 12:18 pm

    I don’t think you can blame consumers for taking up an offer that was orchestrated by the banks and govt working in collusion.

    I think that is what happened in the USA. The banks pressured the govt to allow risky loans and the govt agreed. That did not happen in Australia.

    The big problem we have is the increasing govt debt. Abbott tried to do something about it in his first budget but was called mean and nasty. Fact is the voters do not want budget cuts and unless we elect a dictator to do something about it the problem will just get worse and worse.

  28. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 5, 2015 12:27 pm

    I don’t disagree that the banks are also to blame. Particularly as they could get mortgage insurance from Fannie and Freddie and because the ratings agencies got it spectacularly wrong.

    What strikes me is the similarity with the 1987 crash which was due to mis-pricing of junk bonds. Michael Milken and Drexel convinced lenders that the higher interest outweighed the higher risk. So, in the GFC, the hunger for sub-prime mortgages was driven by a mis-pricing of risk (based on rating agency reports) .

    In each case Investment advisers made handsome fees selling risky investments to unsophisticated investors. How many local councils invested heavily in sub-prime mortgage derivatives? Investor greed and a sharp salesman who looks like a flash rat with a gold tooth – that’s all it takes.

  29. November 5, 2015 3:20 pm

    Cue YoM…..!

  30. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 5, 2015 4:29 pm

    ‘cue YoM’
    😆

    Banks understated value of investor loans by $50b: RBA http://ab.co/1MJu4uY #abcnews

  31. Walrus permalink
    November 5, 2015 5:48 pm

    From AO’s The Age link………

    “…….Alleged branch stacker David Asmar, a close political ally of Bill Shorten, hurriedly left Australia a few days after being told he would have to appear before the royal commission into union corruption…………”

    I was wondering where TomR was this week

  32. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 5, 2015 6:17 pm

    😆

  33. TB Queensland permalink
    November 5, 2015 7:14 pm

    So much quieter without The Mad Abbott … still if Milku, can’t change the LibNit’s abhorrent policies … keeping shtum is probably a clever strategy …

    I hear The Mad Abbott is planning a Second Cumming …

  34. TB Queensland permalink
    November 5, 2015 7:24 pm

    Best movie line of the year,

    “You don’t seem to be angry/worried/bitter …?”

    “Would it help?” …

  35. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 5, 2015 7:32 pm

    still if Milku, can’t change the LibNit’s abhorrent policies

    The ALP locked up 50,000 people. 2,000 of those were kids.

    Every rape,death, acts of self harm are the responsibility of anybody who voted for Rudd in 2007.

    Howard faced with a problem came up with a solution. The Pacific Solution. And everybody who posts on this site except for me voted against it creating all these problems.

  36. November 5, 2015 8:08 pm

    “”I was wondering where TomR was this week””

    chortle… 🙂

  37. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 5, 2015 11:25 pm

  38. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 7:49 am

    I was wondering where TomR was this week

    “You’ll never catch me alive said he”

    😉

  39. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 8:21 am

    From the Peter Martin link AO

    Lifting the GST to 15 per cent would hit low-income households hard but its negative effects would go almost unnoticed by those at the top end of society, new modelling of the proposed changes has revealed.

    And, WHY are they changing a tax that hits the poorest hardest?

    the Treasurer Scott Morrison has promised that any switch won’t increase the total tax take.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/gst-changes-will-be-fair-and-wont-push-up-total-tax-take-government-promises-20151105-gkru9z.html#ixzz3qedAD6Gt
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

    Well, that’s no reason, surely? Why hit the lower end of town, especially if the overall tax take won’t change. Where could the money be going?

    Is this a hint?

    Tax grabs by corporate interests in Australia and the US are putting the economy at risk and calling into question the future of democracy, leading economist and China specialist Ross Garnaut says.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tax-grabs-could-put-democracy-at-risk-says-ross-garnaut-20151105-gkrzgd.html#ixzz3qedR964T
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

    Make the bloody corporation pay, instead of making the poorest people support the richest.

  40. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 6, 2015 8:56 am

    I was in favour of the GST when Keating advocated it, and have remained consistent since.

    Put it on everything and compensate low income earners and pensioners.

  41. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 9:43 am

    and compensate low income earners and pensioners.

    Why put in a permanent tax that requires compensation? Isn’t it better to have a fairer tax to begin with?

    What happens when another hockey etal comes along, and all he has to do is take away that compensation?

    Who is to say this mob is not another hockey etal (because, well, they are)

  42. Walrus permalink
    November 6, 2015 10:16 am

    “And, WHY are they changing a tax that hits the poorest hardest?”

    If it’s so damn unjust then please point out in the ALP manifesto where they promise to abolish it.

    By the way……you haven’t had much to say about the Royal Commission this week I notice.

  43. Walrus permalink
    November 6, 2015 10:17 am

    “What happens when another hockey etal comes along, and all he has to do is take away that compensation?”

    Did they do that with the Carbon Tax ?

    No !

  44. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 10:25 am

    If it’s so damn unjust then please point out in the ALP manifesto where they promise to abolish it.

    They have said they will not abolish it, as “unscrambling that egg” (or wtte) would prove too disruptive. BUT, hey have always been against it. They even brought their treasurer around to their way of thinking, with the simple fact that it is so regressive.

    By the way……you haven’t had much to say about the Royal Commission this week I notice.

    If you had paid attention, I haven’t commented on anything much this week 😉

    Did they do that with the Carbon Tax ?

    Was the Carbon Price a permanent Tax?

    No ! 😉

  45. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 10:28 am

    But, since you mentioned the royal witch hunt, and the way the media breathlessly repeat council accusing accusations (which have mostly fallen flat)

  46. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 10:41 am

  47. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 6, 2015 10:52 am

    Funny how the libs turn out to be the ones who want to increase taxes on us like the great big tax on everything!

    Their low tax rhetoric is a myth!

  48. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 6, 2015 11:01 am

    Raise taxes so much that they can quickly get a surplus and then claim they are the worlds best economic managers…or flog off everything of any value!

  49. TB Queensland permalink
    November 6, 2015 11:04 am

    Squirm, Brandis, squirm!

    It could be the greatest courtroom confrontation since Rake or Rumpole of the Bailey, but sadly, one of the key protagonists has commitments that will prevent him appearing in person in the Sydney law courts on Friday.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/06/mark-dreyfus-vs-george-brandis-battle-over-access-to-the-ministers-diary

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Funny how the libs turn out to be the ones who want to increase taxes on us like the great big tax on everything!

    As they continue to destroy the economy, the environment and society in general …

    The New World Order never went away! Vacuum Economics!

  50. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 6, 2015 12:03 pm

    Well Turnbull shows his leftist tendencies. As soon as he gets in there is talk about raising taxes.

    How about cutting spending and spending more wisely before we start to talk about raising taxes.

  51. Walrus permalink
    November 6, 2015 1:08 pm

    “How about cutting spending and spending more wisely before we start to talk about raising taxes.”

    If you do that TB will start whinging about the extra 3c per tablet he might have to pay on his Panadol.

  52. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 6, 2015 1:15 pm

  53. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 6, 2015 1:20 pm

  54. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 6, 2015 1:48 pm

    As they continue to destroy the economy, the environment and society in general

    Says the man who voted for Keating when unemployment was at 11%

    kids in detention in 2007= zero
    kids in detention after 6 years of Labor = 2,000

    acts of self harm of asylum seekers in detention in 2007 = zero
    acts of self harm in detention from 2007-2013 = thousands.

    asylum seeker deaths in detention in 2007 = zero
    asylum seeker deaths in detention under Rudd/Gillard = at least 12

    govt debt in 2007 = zero
    govt debt in 2013 = 10% of GDP and exploding

    unemployment in 2007 = 4.3% and falling
    unemployment in 2013 = 5.8% and exploding

    TB of Queensland is the cause of all these problems because of his vote in 2007.

  55. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 6, 2015 2:12 pm

    I opposed the GST first time around because it was regressive. How dumb was that. Sadly it is not broad enough. But I wouldn’t trust the fuckers to increase it unless they guaranteed to reduce the top marginal rate and treble the threshold for it (and for the other bands).

  56. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 3:45 pm

    Australia ‘could be sued for billions’ by foreign companies under TPP

    So there Was Madness to the method of hockeynomics.

    Bankrupt us so there’s nothing left to sue 😉

    Meanwhile, back in ……

    CANBERRA — Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has declared the Labor Party is “resolutely” opposed to broadening or raising the Goods and Services Tax (GST), saying to do so would not be tax reform.
    ………..

    “Labor is resolutely opposed to making Australians pay more for what they need most,” Shorten said.

    “We will not support increasing a regressive GST that inflicted the heaviest punishment on those least able to afford it.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2015/11/05/labor-resolutely-opposed-to-gst-increase_n_8485218.html

  57. Walrus permalink
    November 6, 2015 4:02 pm

    “Labor is resolutely opposed to making Australians pay more for what they need most,”

    Mmmmmmmmmmm……………..OLED TVs, Bose speaker systems, jewellery from Tiffany’s, Lobster, Crabs, Prawns, Moet Chandon, will all stay 5% cheaper…………………..well thanks Bill…………..my household budget is saved

  58. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 4:52 pm

    will all stay 5% cheaper

    As will electricity, gas, and water bills, weet-bix, clothes, shoes, ……………………………..

    Yep, thanx Bill…………..my household budget is not now trashed 😉

  59. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 4:53 pm

  60. Walrus permalink
    November 6, 2015 5:25 pm

    “As will electricity, gas, and water bills,………”

    But surely you must be one of those solar panel fanatics therefore not paying GST on the power you have produced………….and surely you dont use a fossil fuel like gas………….?

    Or perhaps you are a hypocrite ?

    By the way……….there is no GST on water rates and wont be unless the tax is broadened

  61. Tom R permalink
    November 6, 2015 6:06 pm

    Or perhaps you are a hypocrite ?

    Or perhaps I live with the amenities we have now.

    Yes, I do have solar panels, but we still use electricity. We have a very large household. We have a very small footprint for such a large household though imo.

    Perhaps we should have a tax that charges more for Caviar, and less for Weet-bix. Oh … wait.

    Speaking of hypocrites

  62. TB Queensland permalink
    November 6, 2015 9:03 pm

    Really is bored at the moment … is that the game?

    Or is Turnbull being stymied by the right?

    Maybe I’m bored seeing the same comments and silly defence (especially from Sir Walter – he can’t even spell Moët correctly … just another wannabe …

    I put up a comment and its repeated three days later …

    We just seem to be treading water … mulberry bush … stagnation … BS … incompetent hypocrites …

  63. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 6, 2015 10:56 pm

  64. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 6, 2015 11:14 pm

    The problem at the heart of the libertarian disconnect.

    Property rites: David Leyonhjelm might not like the police but his ideal world can’t exist without them
    https://www.themonthly.com.au/today/eleanor-robertson/2015/06/2015/1446786370/property-rites

  65. Tom R permalink
    November 7, 2015 8:57 am

    Just huge. Shorten giving the full clean bill of health.

    What a fucken load of fucken shit!

    Newsflash :- Innocent man found to be innocent. But we tried.

    What’s so fucken “huge” about that!

    The purely political nature reaffirmed in that release.

    Will there be a Royal Commission into Money Laundering on the cayman Islands?

    After months of “speculation”, will turnball be given a “clean bill of health” (you know, implying that for a period he didn’t have one)

  66. TB Queensland permalink
    November 7, 2015 9:05 am

    The purely political nature reaffirmed in that release.

    Agree! Talk about hoping mud sticks … will the meedja run with it?

    Heydon needs someone to write himself a resignation letter and send it by email to Turncoat!

    What expensive, taxpayer wasted cost!

    As for … After months of “speculation”, will turnball be given a “clean bill of health” (you know, implying that for a period he didn’t have one)

    Just what HAS changed … the smiley face 🙂 and the (almost) dead silence (as policies are thrashed out in darkened Liberal backrooms …

    Turncoat can talk the talk but as useless as The Mad Abbott when it comes to walking the walk!

  67. Tom R permalink
    November 7, 2015 9:07 am

    I put up a comment and its repeated three days later …

    I call it the ‘nil’ effect 😉

    mind you, the gst ‘debate’ is indicative of that. It is similar to the AGW one. two sides, violently opposed, and one side mangling facts to suit their own nefarious reasons.

  68. TB Queensland permalink
    November 7, 2015 9:12 am

    One thing that does seem to have changed with the backstabbing, assassination of Abbott is a more discussion by stakeholders (albeit behind closed doors – I was a big fan of the open, Hawke/Keating’s Accord approach) …

    Leaders from business, welfare, the conservation movement, the electricity sector and the union movement have moved to try to fill Australia’s climate policy vacuum by starting a new slogan-free debate to help political parties find workable greenhouse policies.

    Mirroring the Turnbull government’s tax debate, in which all policy options are back “on the table”, the groups commissioned major consultancies to present on six climate policy options at a special closed-door summit this week. They intend to publish the results in a back-to-the-drawing-board policy “primer” to be released next year.

    Indicating the extent to which six years of bitter climate policy war have forced wide-ranging discussion outside the political arena, advisers to environment minister Greg Hunt, resources minister Josh Frydenberg and Labor environment spokesman Mark Butler, as well as advisers to state governments, all attended the workshop as observers.

    The experts believe the Coalition’s Direct Action policy needs substantial modification to reach the 2030 emissions reduction target that the government will pledge at the Paris climate change meeting next month.

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/07/climate-summit-held-by-business-and-green-groups-to-end-six-year-policy-war

    How long have people been talking about tax reform and climate change reform … ?

    I know Australia cannot be run like a business – it isn’t a business to start with – but these turkeys would lose money at a sausage sizzle a the Melbourne Cup!

  69. Tom R permalink
    November 7, 2015 9:18 am

    will the meedja run with it?

    They already have. Breathlessly repeating accusations from the “council assisting”, ignoring the replies that show that no investigation has been done at all, just listening to smears, repeating them as if they were fact, and the media ignores the truth of it all.

    Whats the bet, he’ll have more “questions to answer”

    But our sitting PM can ‘invest’ in a tax haven, and no questions asked,

    Even though we are supposedly debating ‘tax’, but are ignoring now tax havens, and focusing on hitting the lower end of town, again, still.

  70. Tom R permalink
    November 7, 2015 9:20 am

    experts believe the Coalition’s Direct Action policy needs substantial modification

    Maybe they could morph it into some kind of a trading scheme?

    btw, I’m interested now, what was the duplicated post you mentioned above?

  71. Tom R permalink
    November 7, 2015 9:22 am

    Yes ms lane, but will you do anything about it next week? or will life go on?

  72. November 7, 2015 10:42 am

    reb @November 5, 2015 11:54 am

    #absolutely.correct

    #not to mention all the politicians big-finance has is its pocket to allow them to write their own rules, leaving consumers and/or govt holding the bag when the house of cards collapses (or-gets-bailed-out)

  73. November 7, 2015 11:32 am

    tb”””these turkeys would lose money at a sausage sizzle”””#agree

    #when we consider

    guardian””’tax debate, in which all policy options are back `on the table””’

    #we will find the teabags rapidly removing the rich and corporate welfare coz it`s `essential` and only leaving regressive teabag fetishes on the table, in the zombie belief they can cut their way to prosperity, you know, like cutting the buying`power` of consumers by first cutting their earning ability, and then cutting the quantity of goods they can purchase by increasing gst, #dumb.fcuks

    #but the bleating of the un-electable blib will do no good, as the voters are fully switched-off to blib and the rabble that surround him, talkbull is so confident in the `swoon-flow` talkbull won`t be going to election until late next year, allowing blib as much time as possible to shed seats

  74. November 7, 2015 11:51 am

    NEWSFLASH, Dead-duck found to be dead.

    (you know, implying that for a period he was alive)

    #yaaaay.blib

  75. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 7, 2015 11:56 am

  76. November 7, 2015 12:24 pm

    guardian”””They show part time, casual and similarly precarious working structures are on the rise, with a third of all workers now employed in such a situation.”””

    #junk.job.status #and.often.is.long.term.for.many #dumb.cnuts

  77. November 7, 2015 12:31 pm

    So teabags, with one-third of `todays-workers` in junk-jobs, we can easily predict that one-third of `todays-workers` WILL most likely NEED a pension at retirement-age and/or `retrenchment`. Forward planning and management really isn`t that difficult, unless you deny reality.

  78. TB Queensland permalink
    November 7, 2015 3:23 pm

    Forward planning and management really isn`t that difficult, unless you deny reality

    Seems it is for governments … y’know the shock that the baby boomers have suddenly got older … 70 years after the first lot were born … forward planning … chuckle …

    And you’ve only got to read some of the comments on this blog (let alone many others) to see that those that have it easy don’t want to share … just gloat and ignore in educated ignorance …

    Don’t ever think or use the word egalitarian in relation to this country … it doesn’t exist … the rich suck it up and shit it out!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    TR, last comment on … Catholic Leaders Condemn Tony Abbott’s anti Asylum Seeker Tirade! thread … refers to Brandis’ nonsense about catliks like Abbott being criticised … OK two days ago … my bad … 🙂

  79. Tom R permalink
    November 7, 2015 4:07 pm

    Cheers TB

    Been out of it most of the week. And, posing random tweets as I do, then that will happen. There’s also my innate ignorance to take into consideration also 😉

    Speaking of random tweets.

    my reply

    READ: “Sorry gov, we was too busy smearin’ to be clearin’ ” #turc #witchhunt

  80. Tom R permalink
    November 7, 2015 4:12 pm

    And before I forget, why isn’t this front page news. Our cayman pm blew out his project, and all for political purposes. The media want to ignore that as much as they want to ignore Shorten was setup for the headline “Shorten cleared of Criminal conduct”

    But, does he still bash his wife? FUCKERS!

    Quigley releases detailed evidence showing MTM NBN cost blowout

    https://delimiter.com.au/2015/11/05/quigley-releases-detailed-evidence-showing-mtm-nbn-cost-blowout/

  81. TB Queensland permalink
    November 7, 2015 5:28 pm

    The Trade Union Royal Inquisition … would be a better description …

    As for the article on the NBN … it justifies most of what we have argued the last two+ years … incompetence at every level … from ideology, management, technology, budget, understanding the concept, to just plain stupid …

    In his document, Quigley addressed all three of these arguments, giving evidence to show that each assumption was “wrong”, as well as giving examples to show that the trend amongst telecommunications companies globally was towards FTTP, not FTTN or HFC.

    “Telcos around the world are recognising that FTTP is the most cost-effective way to provide the broadband infrastructure that is needed to stay competitive into the future,” he said.

    “The NBN is not – and never was – about providing enough bandwidth for people to stream Netflix at home. It is about providing the vital infrastructure that Australia needs to stay competitive in the 21st century. And that should have meant a ubiquitous FTTP network, not a mishmash of technologies using old cable, with higher operating costs.”

    “It is time to stop trying to blame the previous Government and management for the problems with the costs and timing of the MTM and admit that the cost to role out HFC and FTTN and the timescale that would be needed were grossly underestimated by the Coalition. That is why we are now seeing a $15 billion increase from the Strategic Review and a $26.5 billion increase from commitment in April 2013.”

    “In fact, the only thing that the past two years has demonstrated is that the only parts of the MTM that are providing services to end users of the NBN are those parts that continued the work of the previous Labor Government.”

    The Liberals are certainly NOT the economic managers they falsely purport to be … and especially the merchant banker who would be king … the emperor has no clothes!

    It also demonstrates that the Liberals have no idea of technology and the digital age we now live in and the superfast pace that technology is speeding past (them!) …

    Once again all talk, Minister for Innovation? and his Assistant a 23 yo with no life/work experience, no qualifications and cushy pay rise for garbling interviews on Lateline … as for walking the walk … duds – all of them … incompetent hypocrites …

    (My bold)

  82. TB Queensland permalink
    November 7, 2015 5:53 pm

    Changes to 2016/17 Concession Fares The Federal Government has provided funding for eligible concession travellers since 1997. This has traditionally passed directly onto eligible customers in the form of a travel discount. As outlined in the 2014/15 Federal Budget, the Government has decided to discontinue funding for eligible concession travellers using Great Southern Rail services. The current funding arrangement ends on 30 June 2016. As a result of this funding withdrawal, Great Southern Rail advises that current discounts provided to Commonwealth Seniors, Pensioners and Veterans can no longer be offered. From 1 July 2016, Great Southern Rail will provide a 20 per cent discount for the 2016/17 travel year. This is in order to provide transitional support to our concession customers. These fares are listed as Pension Saver prices in the new 2016/17 fare structure.

    Wot a noice government we ‘ave, hey, guv’ner?

    Just another example of the sneaky shite that gets missed … to fund negative gearing, trust funds, pollies perqs, super tax for the rich, multinational tax dodging …

  83. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 7, 2015 5:56 pm

    It also demonstrates that the Liberals have no idea of technology and the digital age

    You are insane. 40% of the population votes for the Liberals. A greater proportion of these voters are inejob creating areas than people who vote for the Labor Party. And the Liberals have no idea of technology?

    I predict the NBN will be the greatest white elephant in Australian history because it was an ALP idea.

  84. TB Queensland permalink
    November 7, 2015 6:49 pm

    I rest my case, Kneel …

    But I would like to see confirmation of every assertion made … especially this one …

    A greater proportion of these voters are inejob (sic) creating areas than people who vote for the Labor Party.

  85. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 7, 2015 6:50 pm

    …And the Liberals have no idea of technology?

    I predict the NBN will be the greatest white elephant in Australian history because it was an ALP idea…

    I agree, but for a different reason. Malcolm Turnbull and the Libs completely ruined it. They have no appreciation of a digitised future or investment in the technological or intellectual growth of the nation. It’s a wonder we ever got the old analogue phone lines to our homes with them around, they would think that only the wealthy should have them.

    But, if they can dig the country up and sell our shared commodities off to foreign nations for a private profit, well they’ll be in it until the planet is no longer.

    The fraudband is such a wasted opportunity. A wealthy country like ours, pinching pennies rather than investing in it’s people.

  86. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 7, 2015 7:19 pm

    They keep saying that the members should choose, but no-one in either party will let them. I think Shorten is being a bit tricky here.

    Bill Shorten defends West Australian Labor Party’s ’19th century’ pre-selection process after Brand battle
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-07/shorten-defends-wa-labor-partys-pre-selection-process/6921676

  87. November 7, 2015 7:40 pm

    Ha-ha, l see our resident dumb-fcuk is defending the teabags copper-class nbn, despite delimiters evidence that it`s crap. (as predicted by most of us here) #1950.here.we.come

  88. November 7, 2015 7:53 pm

    my.abc””””Labor`s blue collar unions wanted to get rid of the sitting member Gary Gray and were instead supporting 28-year-old electrician Adam Woodage.””””

    #yeah agree, blib`s being tricky

    #and my abc is too, they should have reminded viewers that the electricians onion in vic backed adam-bandt after massive member vote (80-90%) to stop backing alp in lemming-like fashion

  89. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 7, 2015 9:28 pm

    …After 34 years of economic inaction, Labor did something about it

    The Liberal and National parties were in office for 34 years between 1949 and 1983, bar the three years of the Whitlam government. During those years they stuck to the old closeted, protected model of the economy.

    John Howard, as opposition labour spokesman, opposed every wage increase proposed under the eight versions of the Accord. Every one…

  90. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 7, 2015 10:04 pm

    TURC clears Shorten, does itself no favours:
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/turc-clears-shorten-does-itself-no-favours/story-fn59noo3-1227599733994

    …The royal commission into union corruption does itself no favours by leaving it until a Friday night to clear Bill Shorten of any crime.

    The Opposition Leader warrants better treatment than that. Given the intense scrutiny on Shorten’s conduct during his time at the Australian Workers’ Union, the cursory statement looked like a grudging admission the commission would rather not make.

    Burying awkward news on a Friday night is an old political trick – and commissions are not meant to be the place for that. Its submission on Shorten needed to be clear and upfront, not left to the 13th paragraph of a press release at 8:07pm…

  91. November 7, 2015 10:29 pm

    Keating the preening peacock never misses an opportunity to preen does he.

  92. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 7, 2015 11:33 pm

    ‘Alice in Wonderland logic of Libs’ exposed
    Tax hike: How a 12.5 per cent GST will cost houses three times more than carbon price:
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tax-hike-how-a-125-per-cent-gst-will-cost-houses-three-times-more-than-carbon-price-20151107-gkt8h5.html#ixzz3qo5MXcbo

    …EXCLUSIVE:
    A 12.5 per cent GST would collect the same amount of revenue for the Turnbull government as a $28 per tonne carbon price, but cost households about three times as much, new modelling reveals…

  93. TB Queensland permalink
    November 7, 2015 11:56 pm

    Burying awkward news on a Friday night is an old political trick – and commissions are not meant to be the place for that. Its submission on Shorten needed to be clear and upfront, not left to the 13th paragraph of a press release at 8:07pm…

    Politicised to the bitter end!

  94. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 8, 2015 5:04 am

    What a crock! The TURC probably had the week set to determine the evidence and once it made the determination at the end of the week it advised accordingly.

    Some nongs here look to politicise every issue

  95. Tom R permalink
    November 8, 2015 9:08 am

    The TURC probably had the week set to determine the evidence

    “Sorry gov, we was too busy smearin’ to be clearin’ ” #turc #witchhunt

    Considering that in evidence, the commish even highlighted the media aspects, it makes it look even dodgier than it looks at face value.

    And let’s remember, everything about this #turd is about “looks”

  96. Tom R permalink
    November 8, 2015 9:10 am

  97. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 8, 2015 9:14 am

    Great to see Wicks on the job.

    Now there is an expert in smear.

  98. November 8, 2015 10:12 am

    bongo””Burying awkward news on a Friday night is an old political trick””

    #known as `cowardice` among the punters

    #and like boardrooms, both `teams` have endless cowardice

    bongo””needed to be clear and upfront, not left to the 13th paragraph of a press release at 8:07pm””

  99. November 8, 2015 10:21 am

    Ha-ha armchair, l was wondering how long it would take for teabag-media to cotton-on to the comparison between carbontax-V-gst. Now we just have to wait and see if teabag-media have the nads to throw some of the teabags `own-words` back at them, in the same manner and style `electricity`blib and jooLiar had to endure.

    #l.bet.they.don`t.have.the.nads

  100. November 8, 2015 10:44 am

    smh”””The Greens must prepare to become a `party of government` as Australia`s two-party political system breaks down,(#agree) according to Greens leader Richard Di Natale.

    `Our vote is already matching it with the Coalition and Labor amongst young voters,` he will tell the Greens national conference in Adelaide on Saturday.””””’

    http://www.smh.com.au/action/printArticle?id=1002394794

    +

    smh”””But Senator Di Natale will also take aim at the Bill Shorten-led Labor Party, claiming the Greens to be already the `effective opposition to the Abbott/Turnbull government`.(#agree)

    `Labor is incapable of articulating a coherent vision for the nation, and already under Malcolm Turnbull we are observing the growing disjunct between the leader and his party on policy issues, from global warming to marriage equality,` he will say.”””

  101. November 8, 2015 10:55 am

    smh”””The party(#greenz) has the federal seats of Grayndler and Sydney, held by senior Labor figures Anthony Albanese and Tanya Plibersek, respectively, at the top of its target.

    A preference deal with the Liberal Party could deliver the two key electorates to the Greens, Parliamentary Library research has shown. The Liberals under Tony Abbott would not countenance doing any deals with the Greens but Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has reached out to Senator Di Natale in a bid to improve relations in the Senate.”””

    #keep.reaching.talkbull:-)

    #watch.out.blib

    #l can just imagine the pom-pom wavers going into meltdown `if` talkbull (hope-he-does) cuts a deal with the greenz and they snag plib and albo seats. How fcuking delicious would that be armchair:-)

  102. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 8, 2015 11:07 am

    Lock Up Thy Neighbour: Kiwis Locked Up In Detention Say They Are Being Abused By Australian Guards
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/alexlee/kiwis-in-detention-christmas-island#.ayWxQ9v61

    …Australia is getting an international reputation for the harsh conditions on its offshore detention camps. But as New Zealanders on Christmas Island cry out for help, it is starting to hit too close to home…

    …“The ERT (riot squad) stormed his cell some time back, threw him on the floor, zip tied his hands, lay a riot shield on him, twisting his legs to immobilise him, but went beyond what was necessary and snapped a ligament in his leg while they pummelled him,” Davis wrote in a post on his Facebook page.
    When he was finally allowed to see a doctor, Czarian was given a medical certificate to say that he needed surgery. But soon after, the ERT raided his cell again, and this time they took his clothes and the medical certificate, along with other important paperwork including correspondence from his lawyer. They also took his mattress, leaving him to sleep on a bare concrete bed.
    What happened next is hard to imagine Australian authorities being capable of doing, even knowing the alleged abuses on Manus Island and Nauru.
    “He was made to live in his undies and given dry cereal to eat with no utensils. He was hosed down with a fire hose and left in his wet undies. They cranked the air conditioning up so that he froze. He sat in the shower at night with the water on hot until it ran out, just to warm up,” Davis wrote…

    The cops have been doing this stuff to prisoners forever, sadistic abuse of power designed to humiliate and break them.

  103. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 8, 2015 12:00 pm

    The Liberal and National parties were in office for 34 years between 1949 and 1983, bar the three years of the Whitlam government. During those years they stuck to the old closeted, protected model of the economy.

    Yeah and in the late 1970’s we used to manufacture most stuff here. Now it is all gone.

    It’s hard to say how little the Libs mattered during the Hawke-Keating reforms, but not for Paul Keating:

    What reforms? Keating may have done some good by making Superannuation compulsory but it is not working. It is not stopping people going on the age pension.

  104. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 8, 2015 12:03 pm

    Goods and nervousness: Turnbull’s GST gamble
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2015/11/07/goods-and-nervousness-turnbulls-gst-gamble/14468148002592

    …Last year Hendy, an economist, former staffer to treasurer Peter Costello and at one time head of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, told parliament that speculating about increasing the revenue take was “playing with fire”. He said the core of the reform that came with the GST was the ditching of the old wholesale sales tax. It was a cascading cumulative tax that added massively to business costs. Replacing it saved business, especially exporters, billions. “However, it is a reform that is completed,” Hendy said. “It was long overdue but now it’s done.”

    Tellingly, he said raising the rate now would simply be a tax grab. He, like his former boss, has a jaundiced view of the states. He claimed, somewhat unfairly, the states didn’t deliver on their side of the bargain in scrapping taxes. They did, but not as many as Costello would have liked. Hendy warned his federal colleagues that the states could not be trusted to do anything more this time than to take the money and spend it, again without ditching payroll tax or other inefficient imposts…

  105. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 8, 2015 12:07 pm

    What reforms? Keating may have done some good by making Superannuation compulsory but it is not working. It is not stopping people going on the age pension.

    Don’t be silly neil, think a little. It’s not an instant change. There are still people working today who have not had the benefit of continuing superannuation throughout their working life.

  106. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 8, 2015 12:08 pm

    And women are way behind men when it comes to superannuation earnings.

  107. November 8, 2015 12:29 pm

    “”And women are way behind men when it comes to superannuation earnings.””

    Very true.

  108. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 8, 2015 12:39 pm

    The Abbott experiment shows how our parliament takes it’s citizens hostage to their plans or their madness. An election or change of leader does not correct their power to trample over our inherent rights and freedoms.

    A bill of rights to rein in the rogues
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2015/10/24/bill-rights-rein-the-rogues/14456052002543

    …The reason the Abbott government was free to do these things is because, in Australia, we permit parliamentary supremacy. Our parliament has the power to make and unmake any law it likes, subject to very few exceptions. The supremacy of our parliament means that we have, comparatively, very little legal recourse to correct injustices in the laws it passes.

    It also necessarily extends to the executive. So in Australia, if a government wants to expand its powers through legislation and the powers of its ministers, there is no serious impediment to its doing so…

    …Our only defence against an unjust administration are our federal elections, and the Abbott era has shown us the time between those elections can feel very long…

    …The past two years have betrayed the weakness in our system, and in response it may be time to reconsider an Australian bill of rights…

    …A bill of rights framework operates to enunciate and protect the rights and freedoms we consider unassailable, and ensures that no law and no parliament can will these rights away. It does not negate our parliament’s power to write legislation and policy to reflect its decisions about how our country should operate. It simply demands that it makes these decisions without relying on the violation of the basic rights and dignities of any person or section of society.

    This path has been charted by almost every other Western democratic nation on earth, and even in two of our own states, without undermining the vitality of democracy…

  109. November 8, 2015 12:52 pm

    ls it just me teabags, or is plib diminishing herself more regularly regurgitating lame blib-statements, or am l just experiencing some random viewing coincidences. #strange.days

  110. TB Queensland permalink
    November 8, 2015 12:53 pm

    What reforms? Keating may have done some good by making Superannuation compulsory but it is not working. It is not stopping people going on the age pension

    How many times do you have to explain things to some people … ?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And women are way behind men when it comes to superannuation earnings.

    The real problem for women as I understand it, KL, is that, like it or not, females in most species, including human are the prime nurturer … and they have “broken” careers due to raising children … add to that lower wages and it is inevitable …

    One of problems with surviving in an economy, not living in a society …

    The mighty $$ has destroyed society – from families, sport, work, education, health, entertainment, business to politics … you name it, decisions are based on making money … its become an underlying obsession in the western world …

    BTW, KL, The Minister has way more than me (I have none) … and we retired with exactly the same amount in 2005 … 😉

    Learn the system and use it to your advantage … even Wally should agree with that … 🙂

    Don’t expect anything to change with Milkum Turncoat either … he’s a multi millionaire … but wait! There’s more! … he’s a catlik multi-millionaire!

  111. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 8, 2015 12:57 pm

    Don’t be silly neil, think a little. It’s not an instant change. There are still people working today who have not had the benefit of continuing superannuation throughout their working life.

    Since it is a Labor Party idea i suspect Superannuation will never wok. Like a lot of Labor party policies it may sound good but does not work in practise.

  112. November 8, 2015 1:11 pm

    lf you `must` feed it .. can you stop feeding it `stupid` pills.

  113. November 8, 2015 1:59 pm

    teebz”””like it or not, females in most species, including human are the prime nurturer .. and they have `broken` careers due to raising children .. add to that lower wages and it is inevitable”””

    #super

    #add to that, women`s jobs have been more in the junk-job area too, all these other non-full-time jobs don`t accrue `full` super either, which will be a compounded problem in the future, where both `parents` have been stuck with only junk-jobs and `sub-prime` super.

  114. November 8, 2015 2:46 pm

    Teabags”””were in office for 34 years between 1949 and 1983, bar the three years of the Whitlam government. During those years they stuck to the old””sewer system, where `dust-carts` delivered crap from `nodes` behind residences, to approved locations.

  115. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 8, 2015 2:58 pm

    lf you `must` feed it .. can you stop feeding it `stupid` pills.

    Labor trashes everything it touches. And the great Hawke/Keating reforms were dropping the tariffs which destroyed our manufacturing industry and deregulating the banking industry which the Coalition had to re-regulate. And Superannuation which is not working and given the history of ALP policies will never work. There is usually an unforeseen stuff-up with ALP programs.

  116. Tom R permalink
    November 8, 2015 5:36 pm

    Labor trashes everything it touches.

    lolz nil

  117. Tom R permalink
    November 8, 2015 5:43 pm

    more lolz, making even hockey look competent.

    Will he be able to produce his Keynesian birth certificate?

  118. TB Queensland permalink
    November 8, 2015 6:10 pm

    Because The Robber Barons don’t/won’t want to share the benefits of the planet they want to control them and subsequently the rest of us … nothing has changed …

    This worries Chace. “There will be people who own the AI, and therefore own everything else,” he says. “Which means homo sapiens will be split into a handful of ‘gods’, and then the rest of us.

    “I think our best hope going forward is figuring out how to live in an economy of radical abundance, where machines do all the work, and we basically play.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/07/artificial-intelligence-homo-sapiens-split-handful-gods

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    “Are you are a Keynesian?” asks Paul Kelly.

    “I’m a Liberal and I’m an Australian,” says Scott Morrison on Sky

    More like a Vacuum Economics Salesperson …

    … trickle down? Duh?

    Scott Morrison really is having trouble with his “new” portfolio … Economics 101 … beam me up, Scotty!

  119. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 8, 2015 6:28 pm

    If Mike Quigley had 50% of Labor NBN finished he may have a point. History of ALP programs is that they are disasters, cost milions/billions more than planned and don’t work.

    Labor abolished the Pacific Solution and introduced a more human refugee policy. 50,000 boat people latter, with 2,000 kids locked up and having spent $11B housing all these people at least Labor got around to sort of admitting they were wrong. But the ALP has yet to apologise for the rapes, murders, drownings, acts of self harm they caused.

  120. TB Queensland permalink
    November 8, 2015 6:54 pm

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  121. TB Queensland permalink
    November 8, 2015 7:13 pm

    State governments are being encouraged to open up the delivery of health and education services to the private sector.

    The push for more competition was recommended by the Harper Review, which will be put before state and territory treasurers at their next meeting, scheduled for later this month.

    The federal treasurer, Scott Morrison, told News Corp Australia on Saturday the review highlighted a number of areas overseen by the states “where they thought things could be done a lot better”.

    The finance minister, Mathias Cormann, said the idea would include a diversity of providers competing with each other to deliver better services, both in terms of quality and cost.

    “That is of course good for patients and it is good for our country as a whole,” he told Sky News, specifically on health care.

    Senator Cormann cited a growing demand for services, particularly given the country’s ageing population.

    Labor concedes it is true there should be competition to ensure more efficient spending.

    But opposition MP Michael Danby criticised the federal government’s cuts in health and education funding to the states.

    “It’s very hard for people to find efficiencies within that massive cutback,” he told Sky News.

    That bolded bit (by me) is a bother … privatising social services does NOT ensure efficient spending … I have my health insurance with Defence Health, car, home and contents with RACQ … neither organisation has shareholders! Before I changed I was with NIB until it went public – earnings to shareholders do not help patients … and with APIA cum Suncorp cum Australian Alliance et al … earnings to shareholders not policy holders!

    Bill Shorten conceding privatisation is not the ALP I voted for …

    I still can’t believe that ADF bases are “guarded” by civilian security companies … ADF members are employed 24/7!

  122. Tom R permalink
    November 8, 2015 7:15 pm

    If Mike Quigley had 50% of Labor NBN finished he may have a point.

    He does have point, He has laid it all out here

    http://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/6905096/data/exploding-malcolm-turnbull%25E2%2580%2599s-myths-to-pm-data.pdf

  123. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 8, 2015 7:41 pm

    Quigley is all talk. Chances are it would cost $100B to build if it was ever possible and if it ever was built somebody will come along with wireless technology cheaper. Fact is Labor policies are usually disasters.

    more lolz, making even hockey look competent

    Oh and i saw the full question and answer and Morrison did not say what David Crowe is trying to make out.

  124. November 8, 2015 7:42 pm

    guardian”””where machines do all the work, and we basically play”””

    #play? bullshit, the `rest` won`t `play`, more-like `starve` as they do now, after all, we already have the world and economy of plenty, but the `few` are getting the obscene level of the rewards, at the expense of the `rest`

    guardian””’factory workers who have been displaced by robots are rarely the same people who land up as app developers or analysts, and technological progress is already being blamed for exacerbating inequality”””

    #and the `quantity` of `new` jobs created in never near the amount of `old` jobs trashed, but merely a fraction .. cotton.harvester-V-cotton.pickers

  125. November 8, 2015 7:45 pm

    over-optimistic bullshit sprinkled with pixie-dust at the guardian

  126. TB Queensland permalink
    November 8, 2015 8:26 pm

    I think we agree, tbagz … and I (really) was born and raised where the Luddites lived!

    One thing I was told many years ago (no fkn ageist shite!) …

    … ” there will always be people smarter than you (and I’ve met quite a few! And learned from them) but remember … there will always be people who are not as smart as you … respect them for they are the people who will help you” (and I have met many) … and it is oh so true!

    When I studied management all the texts referred to only of the workforce 30% being upwardly mobile …

    Thank christ for the other 70%!

    I must also say I’ve met many people who have tried to use me for their own aggrandisement … eventually to their detriment!

  127. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 8, 2015 8:34 pm

    Bill Shorten conceding privatisation is not the ALP I voted for …

    The labor party is as privatisation friendly as the libs, they’ve totally embraced neoliberalism

    Don’t forget bill’s recent ‘zinger’ showing where labor’s thoughts are these days.

    …Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has defended penalty rates, saying the extra income is the difference between parents sending their children to private schools over public schools…

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bill-shorten-links-penalty-rates-with-parents-affording-private-schools-20151005-gk1ehw.html#ixzz3qtF83K7U

    You wouldn’t think whitlam’s visionary education and health policies came from the same party, labor has not protected the legacy. This is where keating & hawke have led the modern labor party, completely caved in to capital, lackeys for the de facto government of the nation – the wealthy elites.

  128. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 8, 2015 8:57 pm

  129. TB Queensland permalink
    November 8, 2015 10:55 pm

    “I’m not an ideologue,” Scott Morrison declares on Sky today

    Could’a fooled me … GUFFAW!

  130. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 8, 2015 11:09 pm

  131. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 9, 2015 6:14 am

    Could’a fooled me … GUFFAW!

    I posted the full transcript of the question and answer to show how David Crowe had twisted Scott Morrisons words.

  132. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 8:33 am

    labor has not protected the legacy.

    Yea, why don’t they fight for progressive actions, like a Carbon Price, Gonski, NBN, NDIS …. 😯

    No shit, some people are so easily led by the media manipulation of history that it beggars belief.

    Well, here’s some “modern” history. 😉

    Whilst at the protest I filled out what I believed was a union petition against the closure of the fire station at one of a number of tables that were manned by FBEU personnel. After filling out that petition I was suddenly on the Greens member Jamie Parker’s email database.

    I guess this is one Green who doesn’t mind using union resources for political campaigning despite voting against it.

    Progressive Hypocrisy Pty Ltd…

    http://wixxyleaks.com/hypocrite-blues-greens-struggling-with-their-own-ideology/

    “I’m not an ideologue,” Scott Morrison declares on Sky today.

    So, his simple answer then would be “no, I’m not a Keynesian” You cannot claim to be under the big L “Liberal” banner ANDa Keynesian after the big L “Liberal” conniptions to Labor’s fantastic GFC response, can you?

    Or is that he really doesn’t know what it is?

    If they want to have a “discussion” we need to know at least what their position is? I mean, we KNOW what their position is, but do they have the intestinal fortitude to actually state it?

    I posted the full transcript of the question and answer to show how David Crowe had twisted Scott Morrisons words.

    You posted the full transcript to show what a disingenuous tool morrison is.

  133. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 8:35 am

    Today @Greens members have spoken with one voice.

    Which one was it today?

  134. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 8:40 am

    The labor party is as privatisation friendly as the libs

    Got a link for that?

  135. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 8:55 am

    Andrew Elder nails the media AGAIN, this time highlighting the aforementioned david crowe and his vacuous bitch slap of turc for having the temerity to make itself look even more biased than it had already made itself look in the past.

    A royal commission should inquire into a pressing matter of public concern, but it should not need a cheer squad or public explainer in the way Crowe (and other journalists) claims. If this royal commission is first and foremost for show, if accommodating media deadlines trumps other considerations such as close and careful application of the law, if it requires “favours” from David Crowe, then it is in trouble. It is in so much trouble that Crowe, with his limited scope and skills in journalism, with his absurdly overestimated popular appeal and his misunderstanding of what a royal commission is/should be, simply cannot save it. He can barely justify his own role in this process, insofar as he has one, and insofar as the events of Friday night excluded him from it.

    Crowe tips us off to TURC’s essential illegitimacy, a failed witch-hunt tripped up by rules of evidence and the laws of the land. He reveals the extent to which he falls short of hopelessly inflated expectations. He does himself, his employer, the Heydon Royal Commission and this government – and his few and dwindling readers – no favours whatsoever.

    http://www.andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2015/11/no-favours.html

    A master class that has the elites preening about in dismay, Well down Mr Elder, well done!

    And to rub insult into stupidity, they are back at it again today, even a simple story that exposes even further how inept/biased this commission is, with Shortens lawyers actually asking on Friday for any news, but being totally ignored.

    Opposition Leader Bill Shorten’s lawyer has demanded a “please explain” from the trade union royal commission over the timing of its announcement, late last Friday night, that its top counsel had made no submissions of any criminal or unlawful conduct by Mr Shorten.

    And in a scathing letter sent to the commission’s solicitor assisting, James Beaton, and senior associate Shelley Scott, Mr Shorten’s lawyer, Leon Zwier, has also complained that requests for the commission to call him on Friday were ignored.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bill-shortens-lawyer-demands-please-explain-from-union-royal-commission-20151108-gktmhg.html#ixzz3qwHyiHI0

    the muppets just cannot resist the digs, the smears, the innuendo that IS turc

    Despite the findings, Finance Minister Mathias Cormann said on Sunday Mr Shorten had nevertheless been involved in “secret deals, trading away conditions for workers and he admitted that he received an undeclared personal benefit from somebody who he was negotiating with on behalf of his members. Now, you know, people will pass their own judgements in relation to that”.

    I mean, wtf does that have to do with a story about Shortens lawyers being ignored completely over a political witch hunt by dropping in a political smear at the end?

    BUT, the defense the turc is running about “so busy” made me think about the week long smear against the Queensland CFMEU and the “shredding” of documents.

    I mean, they sent an email to the office at 4.30 on the last night of the clean-out, and then pretended it was ignored deliberately, or that this “sparked” the shredding frenzy, when in fact, almost all of the “shredding” was done by then.

    It’s a massive insider joke, amplified and abetted by these muppets who cry a river when some blogger points out their high farce. And then they continue on like nothing ever happened.

  136. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 9, 2015 8:59 am

    You posted the full transcript to show what a disingenuous tool morrison is.

    No i posed the full question/answer to show that David Crowe twisted Morrisons words.

    Morrison is not an economist so i suspect he is still coming to terms with his new ministry. But he has problem solving ability which is what a minister needs.

    Swan knew more about economics but was as dumb as a bag of nails. Could not solve any problems but just created them.

  137. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:01 am

    Labor concedes it is true there should be competition to ensure more efficient spending.

    They didn’t really “flesh” that out did they? I get the feeling that the spokesperson just might have qualified that, but that qualification might not have slipped so easily into the stories arc.

    http://www.alp.org.au/policy_commitments

    Here’s a start. pay particular attention to TAFE and Mental Health, and then blend that in with their Start-Ups policy platform.

  138. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:07 am

    Morrison is not an economist so i suspect he is still coming to terms with his new ministry.

    I’m not an economist, but even I know what a “Keynesian” is, and I for sure aint the current Treasurer of a country, whose MINIMUM requirement for the position would/should be to understand the most simple concepts of his portfolio, and not just regurgitate platitudes of “I’m a Liberal”, which any half baked neuron could tell you immediately that that statement alone means he is NOT a Keynesian, not by a far cry.

    Why could he not just say that?

  139. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:12 am

    From my above rant that ended with corman putting on his own witches hat for the turc witchunt with his meaningless blather about “trading away conditions for workers ” that wasn’t even supported by the turc transcripts, I read this morning over at poll bludger

    all the claims that Cleanevent workers were dudded out their penalty rates
    As at December 2006
    Normal rate $14.32
    Saturday Rate $21.48
    Sunday rate $28.64
    Public Hol Rate $35.80

    using the adding up I learned at skool I reckon that they were getting paid the penalty rates.
    (I got these figures from the TURC transcripts)

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2015/11/05/bludgertrack-53-3-46-7-to-coalition/?comment_page=38/#comment-2289356

    Which is a perfect example for what Andrew Elder is saying in his piece. The media are very happy to play the witch hunts game for it, but very shy on reporting the ACTUAL evidence that renders the attack pieces it creates meaningless.

  140. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:15 am

    Why could he not just say that?

    I suspect the question has no answer. Morrison cannot be pigeon holed.

    But we have learned that David Crowe twists the words of people for political purposes.

  141. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:29 am

    You posted the full transcript to show what a disingenuous tool morrison is.

    Pretty much what I was about to say, TR, ta … 🙂

    I probably would have used the word, twat, rather than, tool, tho’ … 😉

  142. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:30 am

    I suspect the question has no answer.

    Except of course for “yes” or “no”

    He could even have fleshed it out, and said that there are aspects of Keynesian thought that he adheres to, and gone through them.

    But no, he prefers not to be “pidgeon holed”, whilst at the same time being allowed to get away with ramping up the “debt and disaster” monologue when talking of Labor’s GFC response.

    That is ANOTHER example of the hollowness of our current crop of press gallery leaners.

  143. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:30 am

    Got a link for that?

    er, I live in Queensland … nuff said?

  144. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:35 am

    It’s a massive insider joke, amplified and abetted by these muppets who cry a river when some blogger points out their high farce. And then they continue on like nothing ever happened.

    I suspect that someone found a pirated copy of GoT and they’ve all been rabidly watching it … wanking away and planning the next beheading or Red Wedding …

    If it wasn’t so funny it would be hilariously funny!

  145. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:36 am

    I probably would have used the word, twat, rather than, tool, tho’

    I’m just trying to keep with the latest jingoism 😉

    (and “tool” was IT when I was past iIT in the 90’s)

    MORE vacuous drivel supporting Elders article

    The commission was created by Shorten’s political opponents to deliver political outcomes

    Now THAT SHOULD be THE story, not just a simple byline in an article that goes on to push the smears …. again.

    and has been subject to much political controversy

    Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/policy/industrial-relations/dyson-heydons-own-goals-makes-malcolm-turnbulls-task-harder-20151107-gkti3x#ixzz3qwQxsOfX

    Oh yes, a politically motivate RC is just a “political controversy” rather than abomination of judicial powers and corruption of tax payer dollars.

    The media SEE the story, but continue to play the game, and in the process, further corrupt not just our politics, but our legal system also.

    And then they have the temerity to sit back when things go awry and wonder at the unjustness of it all.

  146. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:39 am

    “… whilst at the same time being allowed to get away with ramping up the “debt and disaster” monologue when talking of Labor’s GFC response.

    These Dickwits© really do live in the past … and still don’t understand the seriousness of the GFC in 2008!

    I do hope we see more of the PM and Treasurer in the coming weeks … I can smell a gaffe or two coming on!

  147. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:55 am

    He could even have fleshed it out, and said that there are aspects of Keynesian thought that he adheres to, and gone through them.

    Perhaps Morrison sensed hat it was a question designed to trap him. The main point learned is the David Crowe is not to be trusted. He twists peoples words for political purposes.

    These Dickwits© really do live in the past … and still don’t understand the seriousness of the GFC in 2008!

    Me to. The GFC was a Northern Hemisphere thing. We did lose lots of tax revenue through capital gains tax falls.

    But our exports were not affected. In fact the biggest mining boom and the best terms of trade in our nations history happened during the Rudd/Gillard govt.

  148. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 9:59 am

    and still don’t understand the seriousness of the GFC in 2008!

    My opinion is even more frightening. They FULLY understood it, but would have preferred Austerity measures (note to morriscum, NON KEYNESIAN) to what Labor provided, because, as we have seen from England, these Austerity measures only ever help out the already well to do, at the expense of those not well to do.

    They aren’t stupid, just nasty.

  149. November 9, 2015 10:05 am

    “”The GFC was a Northern Hemisphere thing””

    Quoting the LNP handbook again Neil..?

    Perhaps you’d care to familiarise yourself with some facts before spouting your usual bullshit (there’s always a first time for everything…)


    The outlook for the New Zealand economy deteriorated sharply following the intensification of the global financial crisis in September 2008. Similar to experiences across advanced economies, business and consumer confidence plummeted as uncertainty dominated the global financial and economic environment.

    In addition, local banks’ access to funding in overseas markets was temporarily curtailed at the height of the crisis. Economic activity contracted 0.9% in the December quarter 2008, with production GDP affected by a reduction in manufacturing, construction and wholesale and retail trade.

    On the expenditure side, investment fell sharply while the extent of uncertainty in the global economy was evident in large declines for both services and goods exports. Overseas importers ran down stocks in the face of the uncertainty, while inbound tourism continued to weaken as fears around job security and declining incomes weighed on decisions to travel.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/economy/overview/2010/04.htm

  150. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 9, 2015 10:15 am

    Yea, why don’t they fight for progressive actions, like a Carbon Price, Gonski, NBN, NDIS ….

    And they fucked it up tomr. We’re still fighting to get them aren’t we?

    They couldn’t or wouldn’t stop themselves from tearing each other and the party apart and those good things slipped out of our hands. They allowed the fkn idiot abbott to come to power, take us hostage and bring in the worst government ever!

  151. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 10:19 am

    There’s a bit of a clue in the description one would think … GLOBAL Financial Crisis … unless you are an Australian Liberal Ideologue … who doesn’t understand Keynes theories nor Economics 101 …

    I can think of at least two, off the top of my head …

    Cue, Wally, enter stage right … sb, from the audience …

    Message just in from Penn & Teller: Fool Us … 😀

  152. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 10:24 am

    … take us hostage and bring in the worst government ever!

    Only one? At this stage I’m seeing the same crap … just covered in smiley words to make folk think its chocolate …

    I noticed that Dopey Dutton didn’t fool anyone on Insider tho’ … that’s a good start … Morriscum is failing badly in his portfolio and Chrissy is as whiney as ever and just as ineffective …

    Brandis is still chirping BS … and Jules is offshore and staying right out of it … has she ever actually made a decision other than promotion of her own career?

  153. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 9, 2015 10:25 am

    Got a link for that?

    Selling off the brand: Labor’s privatisation backlash
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-12/lewisandwoods-selling-off-the-brand/4566524

    As the report shows, there is deep and abiding opposition across the political spectrum to the sell-off of government assets.

    Given these findings it’s no surprise that the state Labor administrations that put the most political capital into privatisation – NSW and Queensland – have copped the biggest backlash from the electorate.

    Is privatisation next in Labor’s tattered playbook?
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/03/12/is-privatisation-next-in-labors-tattered-playbook/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

    …Labor’s problem, of course, is its own long history of privatisation. Qantas and the Commonwealth Bank were its privatisations. Its current policy is to eventually privatise the NBN. The NSW party tore itself apart over electricity privatisations. The Bligh government boldly embraced privatisation to shore up its financial position, and was punished with an historic loss. Bligh’s adoption of privatisation remains a sore point within the federal party, where it was regarded as both damaging to Labor’s brand and electorally suicidal…

  154. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 10:38 am

    Selling off the brand: Labor’s privatisation backlash

    I’ll pay that one (and two and three) AO 😉

    BUT, even though they privatise a lot, they also create a lot of public utilites

    See TAFE etc.

    So, to argue they are just a privately oriented as the libs is pretty disingenuous. imo

    We’re still fighting to get them aren’t we?

    Yes, Labor are.

    They couldn’t or wouldn’t stop themselves from tearing each other and the party apart and those good things slipped out of our hands.

    Of course, our hapless media had no part in htat either, did they.

    Why is a GST ‘reform’, whilst a Carbon Price is a “Great Big New Tax”

    And why was the initial one unpalatable to the Greens, but the one we have now ……………

    Ditto Asylum seekers. Aligning themselves with the blubbering hockey to tear down Autrali’s only real attempt at a regional solution in the past twenty years?

    They allowed the fkn idiot abbott to come to power

    “They” are not blameless, but neither is the msm, or the Greens.

  155. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 10:40 am

    Is privatisation next in Labor’s tattered playbook?

    Hypotheticals. Perhaps they should do some “journalism’, and read Labors political platform that they are taking to the next election?

  156. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 9, 2015 10:52 am

    Aligning themselves with the blubbering hockey to tear down Autrali’s only real attempt at a regional solution in the past twenty years?

    And like most ALP policies it would have failed. Anyway it was ruled illegal by the High Court

    There’s a bit of a clue in the description one would think … GLOBAL Financial Crisis

    We don’t count in the scheme of things. Global means North America, Western Europe and perhaps a few other places.

    From Reb’s link

    The New Zealand economy entered recession in early 2008, before the effects of the global financial crisis set in later in the year.

  157. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 10:58 am

    We don’t count in the scheme of things.

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    Wait .. What?

    😯

  158. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 9, 2015 11:05 am

    The case for cuts was a lie. Why does Britain still believe it? The austerity delusion:
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/apr/29/the-austerity-delusion

    …It is rare, in the history of economic thought, for debates to get resolved this decisively. The austerian ideology that dominated elite discourse five years ago has collapsed, to the point where hardly anyone still believes it. Hardly anyone, that is, except the coalition that still rules Britain – and most of the British media…

    Add to that the Coalition and all of the australian media

    …Is there some good reason why deficit obsession should still rule in Britain, even as it fades away everywhere else? No. This country is not different. The economics of austerity are the same – and the intellectual case as bankrupt – in Britain as everywhere else…

    And why it still rules in Australia?

    …What we got instead, however, was a hard right turn in elite opinion, away from concerns about unemployment and toward a focus on slashing deficits, mainly with spending cuts. Why?

    Part of the answer is that politicians were catering to a public that doesn’t understand the rationale for deficit spending, that tends to think of the government budget via analogies with family finances. When John Boehner, the Republican leader, opposed US stimulus plans on the grounds that “American families are tightening their belt, but they don’t see government tightening its belt,” economists cringed at the stupidity. But within a few months the very same line was showing up in Barack Obama’s speeches, because his speechwriters found that it resonated with audiences…

    All that stupid ‘kitchen table’ teabag economics. Complex economics reduced to ma & pa sitting at the table looking at the bills.

    Pretty much all we’ve heard from the aussie teabags, the coalition.

    There would not be a Keynes amongst them.

  159. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 9, 2015 11:22 am

    Along with global warming denial, there is a global financial crisis denial from conservatives.

    It’s a faith based, gullibility and stupidity that conservative politicians count upon. How else can they get their supporters to vote against their own best interests?

  160. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 11:36 am

    The oz doubles down on the smear. Andrew Elder should have a field day with all of this

    The fact Shorten has now been cleared of any criminal or unlawful behaviour — given the current suite of laws — does not mean that what he did was ethically right.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/bill-shorten-cleared-not-same-as-ethically-right/story-fnbkvnk7-1227600951277

    (or google “Bill Shorten: ‘Cleared’ not same as ethically right “) 😉

    Yes, he has “Questions to Answer” And even then, there is still more questions.

    Here’s a thought judith old girl, read the bloody transcripts. It will highlight the ‘ethics’ for you there. Yes, Shorten got his Union members better pay and conditions than they would have got without the Union.

    But that doesn’t fit the story, does it

    There would not be a Keynes amongst them.

    What of the Keynes didn’t come in boats though?

  161. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 9, 2015 11:54 am

    I liked Eder’s article on the sickening propaganda show that is annabelle crabb’s kitchen cabinet.
    http://www.andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2015/11/ecco-journo.html

  162. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 11:55 am

    So intrepid journo’s, who will broach this subject with our intrepid leader

    Quigley’s right, says Morrow: $15bn NBN blowout “mostly” relates to MTM

    https://delimiter.com.au/2015/11/09/quigleys-right-says-morrow-15bn-nbn-blowout-mostly-relates-to-mtm/?utm_content=buffera04ab&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    Under malcaymans directions, the NoBN has gone from a fully fledged Fiber installation, to a dogs breakfast of mixed technologies and overlapping, congestion causing chaos.

    And now for the same bargain price as Labor’s initial plan. And mostly due to this mixed up madness.

  163. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 12:07 pm

    crabb peaked with her “University of East Bumcrack” aimed at bolt, and it’s been all downhill from there.

    Perhaps she actually signed up for a course at said University, and took it to heart?

  164. November 9, 2015 12:20 pm

    You do know that New Zealand’s in the southern hemisphere Neil…?

  165. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 9, 2015 12:21 pm

    All that stupid ‘kitchen table’ teabag economics. Complex economics reduced to ma & pa sitting at the table looking at the bills.

    And that is the reason why a Labor govt from 1996-2007 would not have done what Howard/Costello did from 1996-2007.

    It really annoys me when lefties boast about our low govt debt and our soon to be lost AAA credit rating. If not for Howard/Costello govt debt would be at 60% of GDP and our credit rating close to junk bond status.

  166. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 9, 2015 12:47 pm

    If not for Howard/Costello govt debt would be at 60% of GDP and our credit rating close to junk bond status.

    But Howard/Costello didn’t have a GFC to contend with did they neil? they had rivers of gold flowing in from a once-in-a-generation mining boom and then blew the lot on unsustainable middle class welfare that has caused such ongoing pain for every budget since.

    They had more money coming in than they knew what to do with and they still managed to flog off the family silver and become the highest taxing government ever!

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2004/03/02/the-howard-government-and-privatisation/

  167. Walrus permalink
    November 9, 2015 12:59 pm

    “Shorten got his Union members better pay and conditions than they would have got without the Union.”

    That’s not what the mushroom workers said…………they lost their jobs.

    Went fishun’ again on the weekend…………I wouldn’t want to venture out into the surf on an overcast morning or evening in Sydney. Some mighty big sharks out off Sydney

  168. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 9, 2015 1:10 pm

    they had rivers of gold flowing in from a once-in-a-generation mining boom and then blew the lot on unsustainable middle class welfare

    The mining boom did not start until 2004. Costello had run several surplus budgets before the mining boom even started. The mining boom then exploded in 2008 and the once in a generation mining boom happened under Wayne Swan

    http://www.rba.gov.au/chart-pack/commodity-prices.html

    And Wayne Swan wasted the lot. He did not save one cent of the boom.

    and then blew the lot on unsustainable middle class welfare

    Costello saved $50B in his last three surplus budgets. All the boom was banked and used to pay off debt and start the Future Fund.


    and become the highest taxing government ever!

    Strange, I thought lefties believe the Costello tax cuts destroyed the budget.

  169. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 1:31 pm

    It’s a faith based, gullibility and stupidity that conservative politicians count upon. How else can they get their supporters to vote against their own best interests?

    In a word … ideology! (no logic no reason … just to beat the opposition … fuck the people)

    Under malcaymans directions, the NoBN has gone from a fully fledged Fiber installation, to a dogs breakfast of mixed technologies and overlapping, congestion causing chaos.

    In a word … ideology! (no logic … who did the CBA BTW? … and fuck the country)

    In the eight years since the GFC hit, the budget has been in deficit. To demonstrate just how big the revenue problem has been, consider this: if the government had not increased spending for stimulus measures and assorted programs and instead kept spending at the average of the eight years before the GFC hit, the budget would still have been in deficit every single year:

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2015/nov/09/equality-is-built-into-our-tax-system-thats-why-morrisons-sums-dont-add-up

    Went fishun’ again on the weekend…………I wouldn’t want to venture out into the surf on an overcast morning or evening in Sydney. Some mighty big sharks out off Sydney

    Some on fishun’ boats … hey, Wally?

  170. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 1:45 pm

    That’s not what the mushroom workers said…………they lost their jobs.

    Yes, but, without the Union, they would have lost their jobs anyway, but (if lucky) been re-hired with worst conditions. See the headlines from the time about the companies financial position. They were about to fold. It was take that, or take unemployment.

    It’s called living in reality.

    I also note that those workers didn’t thank the Union for ending the practices that saw most of their workmates living in perpetual pain from the labour.

    Some on fishun’ boats … hey, Wally?

    That’s a terrible slur to put onto Sharks TB. Shame on you.

  171. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 2:26 pm

    You’d think Rupes has been reading our comments and commissioned an article on the NBN … with the ignorance shown in this article … the NBN isn’t even completed but we don’t have any “silicon cities” – apparently … FMD! Not a mention of the NBN being trashed by Milkum’s ideological mish mash!

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/this-is-what-really-happens-when-nbn-moves-in/story-fnjwncel-1227601498314

  172. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 9, 2015 3:56 pm

    Well I’ve been MIA for a couple of weeks, travel, surfing, business…teabagz stuff!

    Now refreshed!

  173. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 9, 2015 4:12 pm

    Quigley releases detailed evidence showing MTM NBN cost blowout

    Well that is one opinion. Here is another although not from someone as knowlegable as Quigley but i suspect Quigley has a vested interest.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/labors-strategy-over-the-nbn-must-be-harpooned/story-fn7078da-1227600775548

    Now, even those of a forgiving disposition might think Quigley poorly placed to criticise others for failing to meet targets. By the time he left NBN Co, the company’s revenues were 91 per cent short of the 2011-13 corporate plan’s objective while the number of premises to which fibre was effectively available was 89 per cent below the level that plan promised.

    There was, however, one target Quigley comfortably exceeded: operating expenses, which, calculated net of payments to Telstra and Optus, were running at twice the levels the plan envisaged………….That implies that, compared to the Coalition-initiated strategic review in early 2014, the NBN’s costs have indeed climbed, but by less than half the headline-grabbing $15bn Quigley spent last week publicising.

    Quigley’s contentions about the costs of alternative access technologies are no less sloppy.

    I tend to agree with most of the comments.

  174. Tom R permalink
    November 9, 2015 5:28 pm

    Well that is one opinion.

    it’s not an opinion, unlike ergas ramblings. It is backed up by a downloadable document that steps through his calculations.

    Poke holes in that, instead of making unsubstantiated claims about “Misunderstanding how fibre costs were calculated in successive reviews” (without explaining this ‘misunderstanding”), and then throwing in an obligatory dig at Conroy

    The document can be downloaded here, and the comments read that discuss it, comments from people who know what they are talking about, not from a paid shill who can only make claims without backing them up.

    https://delimiter.com.au/2015/11/09/quigleys-right-says-morrow-15bn-nbn-blowout-mostly-relates-to-mtm/

    Well I’ve been MIA for a couple of weeks

    It’s been a few years longer than that actually yomm 😉

  175. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 5:50 pm

    Nothing like a cuppa teabag to freshen up …

  176. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 7:20 pm

    Remember Hollingworth … Arcbishop Hollingworth … GG Hollingworth … appointed by another Liberal PM – John “The Rodent” Howard

    What a sleazy bunch of character associate with the Liberal Party … Hollingworth, Pell, Heydon … just three …

    A solicitor acting for former Governor-General Peter Hollingworth asked a child sex abuse victim to change his testimony to remove all references to her client, a royal commission has heard.

    On Monday morning, a former St Paul’s School student, known only as BSG, told the child sex abuse royal commission Caroline Kirton QC approached his solicitor on the first day of hearings last week and asked him to make “significant” changes to his statement.

    “That would amount to having removed every reference to the name Hollingworth from my statement and she requested that I do that and submit that as my amended statement,” he said.

    “I just think that’s terrible. That’s just outrageous, that someone of her calibre representing someone of his calibre, Hollingworth, would request me to change what I was saying or what I wanted to say to the commission in favour of them, that would remove his name entirely from my story.

    “And I think that’s disgusting.”

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/child-abuse-royal-commission-solicitor-asked-victim-to-not-mention-hollingwroth-20151109-gku8nl.html

    I think its disgusting too … but par for the nasties …

  177. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 9, 2015 8:04 pm

    who did the CBA BTW? … and fuck the country)

    Apparently Labor did not do one because the NBN is impossible to quantify the benefit to the nation. And when the Coalition won govt it was too late to stop the project because of all the signed contracts.

    not from a paid shill who can only make claims without backing them up.

    Well Henry Ergas made this claim about Quigley

    “By the time he left NBN Co, the company’s revenues were 91 per cent short of the 2011-13 corporate plan’s objective while the number of premises to which fibre was effectively available was 89 per cent below the level that plan promised.

    Is that true or not?

  178. TB Queensland permalink
    November 9, 2015 8:49 pm

    And when the Coalition won govt it was too late to stop the project because of all the signed contracts.

    But the Liberals* did and restarted with a fucking shambles that has put the nation back at least a decade … in the GLOBAL economy …

    Do the Nationals actually have a say in anything?

  179. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 9, 2015 8:58 pm

    The ‘institute’ with no members embarrasses Senate committee
    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/the-institute-with-no-members-embarrasses-senate-committee-20151029-gkm71n.html

    …In the cash-soaked world of American politics it’s known as “astroturfing” – or the use of artificial grassroots to create an impression of widespread support for a particular political agenda.

    An example is the 1993 creation of the “National Smokers’ Alliance”, a supposed grassroots push for smokers’ rights in the United States that was actually funded by tobacco giant Philip Morris and co-ordinated by a multinational public relations firm.

    “I wasn’t aware of the history of the so-called Family Office Institute and I should have been.”
    [Senator Nick Xenophon]

    Fairfax Media has uncovered what two senators concede is an apparent “embarrassing” case of astroturfing in the low-profile – and ultimately successful – campaign to shoot down a plan to make large Australian companies disclose how much tax they pay.
    The Family Office Institute Australia, whose submission informed large parts of a Senate report recommending the government shield privately owned companies from increased transparency, actually has no members, it can be revealed…

  180. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 10, 2015 4:18 am

    But the Liberals* did and restarted with a fucking shambles that has put the nation back at least a decade … in the GLOBAL economy …

    Well that is your opinion. I liked this comment from the Ergas link

    The NBN is a failed concept and business, propped up by taxpayer fund, a money pit which is not competitive with 4G and forthcoming 5G GSM services and cheaper fibre to copper cable hybrid network alternatives. The best the government can do is cut our losses and save taxpayers from further ongoing billions in expenses in this failed Labor enterprise.

  181. Concept Mapping permalink
    November 10, 2015 5:47 am

    Well that is your opinion.

    Psst.

    As tech-heads designed it (for Labor, and for Australia), the NBN was to have been an integrated, ubiquitous, future-proof backbone, even for 5G/advanced and etcetera.

    The whole NBN was to have been an available backbone, and complete skeleton, for every other technology layer and enterprise, marshalling and exploiting the fundamental laws of physics, and light via fibre, as a substrate.

    That it’s been fundamentally crippled by the LNP was the whole LNP plan, and destruction of the NBN was the original, explicit, “I’m no tech-head” LNP marching orders.

    No actual NBN (and the omnishambles the LNP are calling an NBN ain’t anything like an NBN), and anything and everything else, when those “competing technologies” could and also should have been “complementary” and “additive”, seems vaguely “competitive” by comparison with the spineless blob the LNP have now assembled and foisted on the gullible as a “faster” (not, and not in any way faster’s calculated), “smarter” (not), “cheaper” (not) “alternative”.

    Refer also to Keating’s astute observation that the LNP, and their facile followers, can’t and wouldn’t have even an incremental inkling about ratio-synoptic engineerings and comprehensive, synergistic (re)formulations.

  182. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 10, 2015 7:09 am

    NBN as the ALP planned was unaffordable. Engineering, telecommunication and financial experts involved in construction made the most of it, but knew it would not be built as planned – just too expensive for Labor’s big bang approach to rollout.

  183. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 8:02 am

    NBN as the ALP planned was unaffordable

    LINK!

    And not from a paid shill like ergas, who throws out assumptions without anything to back them up.

    But the Liberals* did and restarted with a fucking shambles

    Exactly, and much of the “blowout” was renegotiating with Telstra to buy their antiquated copper lines, which we are now replacing instead of using Fiber. Well done malcayman.

    Someone at Whirlpool was good enough to copy the ergas article for us who don’t want to pay a crook, but need a good laugh. The only comments I have read so far are related to laughter, and the fact that most of his article is just a nasty attack, bereft of facts.

    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2462413&p=63#r1248

  184. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 8:23 am

    The new face of a “scare” campaign

    Remember when scare campaigns were all about $100 roasts, and towns being “wiped” from the map. Now, for malcayman, providing hard evidence and pointing out the inequity within a certain tax is a “Scare Campaign”

    And anyway, they aren’t doing anything, even though everything is on the table.

    How long can a discussion take place without any actual discussion, just denials?

    Although, we did get a clarification yesterday that fresh food was OFF the table (although I think it got put back on very soon after the question relating to it had moved on)

    So, everything is on the table, except when it is being discussed, then it is off the table, only to be back on when a different question is asked.

    It really is a moving feast at the moment. And our media is lapping it all up.

  185. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 10, 2015 8:34 am

    What the f**k!!??

    Do you think the CEO of the construction/engineering company that was building the NBN, who told me that put out a press release???

  186. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 8:48 am

    Do you think the CEO of the construction/engineering company that was building the NBN, who told me that put out a press release???

    I didn’t ask for a link to your groundhog day rant about companies lining up to allegedly fleece taxpayers, I asked you to supply a link for your claim that the ALP’s NBN was unaffordable.

    It now turns out, with supporting evidence, and the agreement of the malcaymans self selected head honcho, it would have been around the same price as the dogs breakfast malcayman turned it into.

    This new abomination will most probably turn out to be a total fucken waste of taxpayers dollars. I mean, we are replacing recently acquired copper lines with brand new, redundant copper lines, for the same price we could have been doing Fiber … to the home! In that respect, it is easy to argue the NBN is NOW unaffordable. But you were specific to Labors creation.

    So, perhaps some form of verification for your claim would be appropriate

  187. November 10, 2015 9:41 am

    SELF.DENIAL,,,,,,`They` are not blameless, but neither is the msm, or the Greens.,,,,,,

    #Pom-pom wavers should check-out the FACTS. Teabag-media, greenz and teabags had nothing to do with knifing kevin07 and were taken by complete surprise. lt was a spectacular self-implosion by the `team` all under their own steam, and was the final straw for some voters who supported them out of the wilderness, and they won`t return for blib.

    #own.goal

  188. November 10, 2015 9:48 am

    boo.of.melb,,,,,,couple of weeks, travel, surfing, business…teabagz stuff! Now refreshed!,,,,,,

    #that`s good, welcome back

    boo.of.melb,,,,,,,NBN as the ALP planned was unaffordable,,,,,,

    #glad you weren`t wasting your time `learning` anything

  189. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 10, 2015 9:53 am

    Is this where the former merchant banker malcolm turnbull shows his true colours? The rise of inequality, the haves and the have nots?

    Equality is built into our tax system – that’s why Morrison’s sums don’t add up
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2015/nov/09/equality-is-built-into-our-tax-system-thats-why-morrisons-sums-dont-add-up

    Unless the government wants to increase inequality, it’s almost impossible to keep revenue the same without increasing spending…

    …Cumulatively, revenue over the past eight years was 20.5% of GDP below the 2000-01 to 2007-08 average; whereas cumulative spending was just 8.6% of GDP above the average.

    In effect, lower revenue was responsible for about 70% of the deficits we have had since the GFC hit.

    The good news is the budget is predicted to be almost in balance by 2018-19. The bad news is that relies on GDP growth which keeps getting revised down…

    When is a budget cut not a saving? When we can no longer afford the essentials
    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/06/when-is-a-budget-cut-not-a-saving-when-we-can-no-longer-afford-the-essentials

    The problem with starting a tax debate from the point of view that spending must be cut is that it fails to acknowledge that some services are worth it..

    …Surely we should start that discussion with a clear idea of what we want to pay for, what services we value in our lives and what things we value as a society.

    …Is the priority to cut the government’s tax take, or its spending, below a certain percentage of GDP, or to have a functioning hospital to treat a sick child? Starting with a theoretical or ideological position about a “desirable” level of taxation – without knowing what we are taxing for – is bound to get the answer backwards. And it’s not really a “saving” if we can’t pay for things we really need…

  190. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 10:06 am

    From the Lenore Taylor article AO

    Victoria will lose the equivalent of the money needed to run two major hospitals – or to perform more than 10,000 elective surgeries a year – when federal funding cuts kick in in 2017,

    And I love the way, we are back to ‘blame the states”

    It’s so obvious. Rip money out of states, then blame them when they cannot afford to run services, push GST!

  191. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 10:31 am

    Oh oh, the GST “scare campaign” must be working, the meeja have run out their “sauces” again

    Labor is planning to raise taxes on cigarettes if elected to pay for the so-called Gonski education reforms

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/labor-to-raise-tobacco-taxes-again-to-pay-for-gonski-reforms-20151109-gku8lj.html#ixzz3r2XPSKL4

    We know this because

    Sources have told Fairfax Media

    Yep, sauces have told them. Didn’t sauces tell them something about “It’s on” for three years in a row, until finally there was no choice BUT to have “It On”

    So, which side of the political divide did this ‘sauce’ come from ms latika? You don’t even specify that.

    Under Labor questioning on Monday about how it planned to compensate carers and veterans under any increased GST, Mr Turnbull called on the opposition to reveal its own tax plans.

    Wow, so turnbull won’t say if they are having a GST or not, but wants Labors policies fully costed and “on the table” for him ROFL

    latika, that is pure junk journalism. And will probably earn her a pay rise in this environment.

  192. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 10, 2015 10:37 am

    “You know you’ve got issues when NKorea expresses concern over our asylum seeker policy “ and some dumb leftists take North Korea seriously.

    The UNHRC is a cabal of human rights abusers who focus on demonising Israel but refuse to criticise muslim countries. Lefties love ’em!

  193. TB Queensland permalink
    November 10, 2015 10:37 am

    Cynic, TR … 😉

    The Liberals still have to prove that they can “manage” a national economy … so far all they done is stuff it up … now and into the future …

    Economic managers my arse!

    Just what has this Turncoat government “done” … except smiley talk BS and stopped me from getting my fkn knighthood … ?

  194. TB Queensland permalink
    November 10, 2015 10:39 am

    … they’ve done …

  195. November 10, 2015 10:41 am

    Psst. Had the `team` possessed `discipline` and `self-control` kevin07 would have won a 2nd-term, and probably could have had a 3rd-term under a positive messages of `renewal` and `female` and hand-over to joolya.

    lnstead, self-imploding gave us mr-rabbit and `all` the wreckage he embodies, sooner rather than later, foisted upon policies and projects including the nbn. Had the `team` NOT imploded, the `team` would have probably had 9-years minimum, to build the nbn as they wanted. But they preferred to implode.

  196. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 10, 2015 11:04 am

    Kevni was a psychopath. Discipline and self-control can only go so far among the troops. We saw it second time around with Kev. It took about two weeks for the fucker to show his true colours. Heaven help the UN if he gets the gig there. Then again we sent them Doc Evatt, but that was before he went really bonkers.

  197. November 10, 2015 11:10 am

    Neither you nor l are `qualified` to declare that kevin07 is/not a `psychopath` splatters, to the punters it looked like the knifing was because kevin07 made them work hard, to which the punters don`t care either, as plenty of the punters work really fcuking hard too.

  198. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 10, 2015 11:12 am

    The Liberals still have to prove that they can “manage” a national economy … so far all they done is stuff it up

    And what has the Coalition stuffed up? The budget deficit is slightly smaller and the unemployment rate is slightly higher.

    You lefties do have trouble telling the truth.

    All the stuffups happened from 2007-2013. Unemployment exploded form 4.3% to 5.8% and govt debt went from zero to 10% of GDP in no time flat. In fact the budget deficit is now a hopeless case. next to come is the loss of our AAA credit rating.

  199. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 10, 2015 11:25 am

    “Neither you nor l are `qualified` to declare that kevin07 is/not a `psychopath` “

    Speak for yourself, Cunto! This esteemed organ is not called The Gutter Trash for nothing. As a serial self-abuser in good standing I am entitled to spurt my goodness all over the page on any topic at all. Kevni is clearly a psychopath. The Chinese rat-fuckers know it. The ALP caucus knew before they decided to have him back anyway. And the UN will find out in due course. He is the very model of a modern megalomaniac.

  200. November 10, 2015 11:44 am

    splatters,,,,,,As a serial self-abuser in good standing I am entitled to spurt,,,,,,#guffaw:-)

    #to me anyway, kevin07 is no more/less looney than blib, joolya, mr-rabbit, eleventy and various other critters in both teams, they all just manifest and `display` their loonieness in different ways

  201. November 10, 2015 12:05 pm

    team.nanny.roxon,,,,,,,,The increases will commence on 1 December 2013, with further increases on 1 September 2014, 1 September 2015, and 1 September 2016. These are in addition to the increases that will occur under indexation arrangements.,,,,,,,

    #so team-cheerer, my neighbor was CORRECT, teabag-lite DID set in motion `annual`-regular baccy-tax rises, and therefore he is CORRECT to hold that against blib when he votes

    http://ministers.treasury.gov.au/DisplayDocs.aspx%3Fdoc%3Dpressreleases/2013/015.htm%26pageID%3D003%26min%3Dcebb%26Year%3D%26DocType

    titled,,,,,,GOVERNMENT TO INCREASE TOBACCO EXCISE, JOINT MEDIA RELEASE WITH THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP MINISTER FOR HEALTH, MINISTER FOR MEDICAL RESEARCH ,, aug2013,,,,,,,,,,,,

  202. November 10, 2015 12:13 pm

    Doh! (fcuked link above, sorry folks)

    http://ministers.treasury.gov.au/DisplayDocs.aspx?doc=pressreleases/2013/015.htm&pageID=003&min=cebb&Year=&DocType

    FOR,,,,,,Aug2013 ,, Chris Bowen .. Treasurer .. 27 June 2013 – 18 September 2013 .. Media Release of 01/08/2013 .. Government to increase tobacco excise .. Joint media release with the Hon Tanya Plibersek MP .. Minister for Health .. Minister for Medical Research,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  203. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 12:49 pm

    my neighbor was CORRECT, teabag-lite DID set in motion `annual`-regular baccy-tax rises

    You’ll need to revisit your neighbour to see what he said. Just like ms latika will need to do for her story time stories

  204. TB Queensland permalink
    November 10, 2015 1:07 pm

    FEDERAL Labor will back government plans to cut family payments to parents with kids over 13 years old.

    BUT it will oppose family tax benefit part B cuts to grandparent carers and single-parent families.

    Originally published as Labor to back FTB changes

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/labor-to-back-ftb-changes/story-e6frfku9-1227603040683

    That coffin can’t have too many nails needed now …

    Was their a trade off?

    What about:

    Negative gearing

    Trust Funds

    Super tax breaks for the rich

    Pollies Perqs

    Multinational tax dodges

    Nothing has changed … hypocrites …

  205. November 10, 2015 1:07 pm

    You`re twisting in the wind team-cheerer, dropping the same `latika` link above, now inside a tweet,

    latika,,,,,,,,,,,,,,In Labor’s last term of government, former treasurer Chris Bowen announced he would increase the tobacco excise every year beginning 2013 for four years, raising $5.3 billion. This policy was supported by the Coalition in opposition and began taking effect after Tony Abbott won office.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #and l don`t really give a fcuk what latika says, it is what bowwow and plib team-nanny-roxon have said, done and passed.

    #own.goal team-cheerer, my neighbor`s CORRECT

  206. TB Queensland permalink
    November 10, 2015 1:16 pm

    tbagz … didn’t yer mum tell ya not to believe everything you read int’ papers …

  207. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 1:21 pm

    and l don`t really give a fcuk what latika says

    It is what Tanya Plibersek says that you should take note of. And what yabot did with the baccy rises.

    But the decisions will come with costs either in financial terms, where revenue is to be forgone, or in political terms, where the Coalition has elected to bank the money despite previously criticising the taxes.

    One such case is expected to be the dramatic increases in federal tobacco excise amounting to a 60 per cent rise over four years and returning $5.2 billion to Canberra in revenue.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/smokers-lose-out-as-abbott-tweaks-tax-20131105-2wzuw.html#ixzz3r3EjMGti
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

  208. November 10, 2015 1:21 pm

    and when it comes to this,

    tweet,,,,,,,,,,,Labor has ‘no plans’ to raise tobacco taxes but is not ruling it out. November 10, 2015,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #l don`t give a flying fcuk what plib says in opposition, or what latika claims plib says, l ALWAYS decide (as-many-punters-do) on HISTORICAL FACTUAL ACTIONS these cnuts ACTUALLY did

    #not what various pom-pom wavers `may` wish us to see

  209. November 10, 2015 1:34 pm

    t,,,,,,,,,did with the baccy rises,,,,,,,,,

    #team-cheerers are providing an excellent `working-example` of why and how blib will lose,

    #my neighbor doesn`t care which bonfire the RISE-cash will be thrown on, he is PISSED it keeps RISE-ing, via team-nanny-roxon/blib

    t,,,,,,,,,,,Plibersek says that you should take note of,,,,,,,,

    #horse-shit. The `actions` recorded about plib, bow-wow, blib, team-nanny-roxon on govt site is best.

  210. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 10, 2015 1:49 pm

  211. November 10, 2015 1:53 pm

    tb,,,,,,,,not to believe everything you read int` papers,,,,,,,,

    #Nah, l know teebz .. my ref is the treasury.gov link .. team-cheerer is peddling latika `repeatedly` in some weird `own-goal` fashion:-)

  212. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 2:05 pm

    You’ve left the plantation teabagz.

    I never said Labor didn’t raise the baccy price

    I did say abbott raised it even more.

    Try to come to grips with recent history before blathering in incomprehensibles

    And I was having a dig a latika, who printed a story this morning about “sources” telling her Labor would up the baccy again, but then someone from Labor came out and called bullshit.

    I’m still asking mslatika if her source was a liberal. Seems only fair

  213. TB Queensland permalink
    November 10, 2015 2:23 pm

    This from The Guardian:

    35m ago
    13:41

    Lunchtime politics

    Labor will block cuts to family payments – first revealed in the 2014 budget – which would fund the Coalition’s childcare package. This forces the government to negotiate with the crossbench or go back to the drawing board.

    Labor will also oppose the $1000 baby payment which the Nationals insisted on when signing the Coalition agreement with Malcolm Turnbull.

    Peter Dutton has described the Christmas Island detainees as “hardened”, suggesting a “core group of criminals” were causing the disruption that had occurred since the death of Fazel Chegeni.

    Legislation has passed to oblige Australian students working overseas to repay their HECS debts.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2015/nov/10/peter-dutton-warns-of-hardline-response-against-high-risk-detainees-politics-live

    And this earlier …

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/labor-to-back-ftb-changes/story-e6frfku9-1227603040683

    Where does news.com.au get its stories? Or do they make shite up just to muddy the waters?

  214. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 2:33 pm

    Or do they make shite up just to muddy the waters?

    See my whinge about a mslatika 😉

  215. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 10, 2015 2:47 pm

    Or do they make shite up just to muddy the waters?

    Says the expert in making shite up. TB you made this comment

    The Liberals still have to prove that they can “manage” a national economy … so far all they done is stuff it up

    How have the Liberals stuffed up the economy? The economic numbers are similar to when the ALP lost office in 2013. It was Rudd/Gillard who did the stuffing up. In 2007 when Howard lost office unemployment was at 4.3%. You have to go back to the 1970’s to find an unemployment rate with a 4 in front of it.

    In 2007 anyone who wanted a job could get one.

  216. November 10, 2015 2:52 pm

    t,,,,,,,,I never said Labor didn`t raise the baccy price,,,,,,,

    #you`re still tap-dancing. Back on an older post, when l told you my neighbor was anti-blib/team coz of `regular` nanny-roxon-baccy-taxhikes, to which you claimed neighbor was wrong, well that treasury.gov link proves him correct.

    #as usual, you missed the point of the info, being to busy with .. but but, but, my team is slightly less crap than the other team .. the other team did it too .. and similar nonsense and tap-dancing.

    #Had you been `shrewder`, and realized the dude telling you this is pretty `team-neutral` as the dude don`t like either team much .. you would have then been aware that the point l was making was it is yet `another` demographic of voters peeling away from blib, as blib leads the team back to the wilderness.

  217. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 2:52 pm

  218. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 10, 2015 3:01 pm

  219. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 10, 2015 3:05 pm

    I thought we were supposed to be having a debate in a rational and meaningful way.

  220. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 10, 2015 3:11 pm

  221. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 3:28 pm

    fuck you’re an idiot teabagz

    go read this and then fuck off to your own irrelevance

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/09/11/court-finds-craig-thomson-guilty-of-squandering-300000-of-hsu-funds/#comment-115134

    You’re just not worth the time or bother

    Treasurer Scott Morrison announces tax discussion paper pushed back until next year

    well, no point having a discussion about a discussion is there 😉

    So, to recap: a GST increase is something which has to happen to get more money for the states, has nothing to do with revenue raising, will not be used to get the states more money, is one of many options being canvassed, and is definitely not under consideration – although there will definitely be income tax cuts since it will need to be offset, if it happens or not.

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/view-from-the-street/view-from-the-street-how-the-government-is-sneaking-bad-ideas-past-you-20151109-gkuke8.html#ixzz3r2k8Dz2V

  222. November 10, 2015 3:28 pm

    tweet,,,,,,,,,,Morrison is the genius who relocated 4 refugees to Cambodia. for $55 million .. .. Turnbull is the genius who is spending $56B on copper,,,,,,,,,,,

    #some of it `un-functioning` copper

    #canberra provides twitter with `unlimited` comedy, too bad it is so expensive

  223. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 10, 2015 3:34 pm

    Hilarious SB!

  224. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 3:39 pm

    The NBN company’s latest set of financial results released yesterday confirm a truth which has become almost taboo to mention in public: Labor’s original strategy for the National Broadband Network is working very well — in fact, it still represents almost all the NBN company has done in its existence so far.

    https://delimiter.com.au/2015/11/10/truth-to-power-nbn-results-show-labors-plan-is-still-working/?utm_content=buffereb923&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

  225. November 10, 2015 3:48 pm

    Run! team-cheerer run! Cute of you to drop that link, but most of `our` argument is on the rostrum`no`particular`reason`edition

  226. November 10, 2015 3:56 pm

    bagz,,,,,,,#each of those points costs the team votes,,,,,,,,

    pom-poms,,,,,,,,,,,nanny roxon would only have “cost votes” to fucken imbeciles who spend their time counting coloured carton containers rather than watching what is actually happening in the real world. And ignoring that the libs hit the baccy tax harder than Labor ever did,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    bagz,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Rest assured my retired wog-mate neighbor doesn`t count the colorful packages (l notice there isn`t as many either, bootleggers probably making military grade too) but did notice the nanny-roxon nanny stateism and price-hikes due to nanny-tax, including the last one a couple of months ago. lt is deeply resented by him (and his mates) that the government won`t leave him alone after working all his life, to enjoy what`s left of his life (which includes his smokes) without his few enjoyments being priced to make life harder. lt is costing the team votes.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/10/23/rostrum-no-particular-reason-edition/

    #now put down ya`pom-poms and go read that treasury.gov link above

  227. November 10, 2015 4:00 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  228. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 10, 2015 4:35 pm

    Turnbull does not take to being thwarted easily. He waited 6 years to shaft Abbott.

    Yes and that is good reason not to trust Turnbull. I do not like what happened. I think Morrison will make a better Treasurer than Hockey. Turnbull does appear to have some characteristics in common with a snake.

  229. TB Queensland permalink
    November 10, 2015 5:11 pm

    Chuckle … every once in a while …:)

  230. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 5:18 pm

    and go read that treasury.gov link above

    And you go and read the one I put up where yabot increased those taxes you bumbling tool.

    And then fuck off and bother someone else with your incoherent friggin blather. You really aren’t worth the time.

    “but the removal of yabot was something that had to be done”?

    Do these people have Stockholm syndrome or something?

    Of course he had to go/ How much more damage did he have to do to show that.

    As much of a [insert sb’s description here] rudd was, the Government itself still functioned OK. See the GFC response for example.

    I think Morrison will make a better Treasurer than Hockey

    Yea, but then again, so would our worst laying chook.

  231. TB Queensland permalink
    November 10, 2015 5:35 pm

    I see Charlie and Camilla have hit Oz … wonder how much this Royal Holiday Visit is costing taxpayers?

    It always amazes me that people don’t know that we pay the fare, lodgings and tucker for these ponces … time for a Republic alright …

  232. November 10, 2015 6:06 pm

    There is a place in Can-ber-ra

    They call the wil-der-ness

    And it`s been the ruin of many a poor boy

    And dog, I know blib`s one

    ,

    He has one foot with the factions

    The other foot with the `team`

    Victory back in Can-ber-ra

    Became a big pipe dream

    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/animals/houseoftherisingsun.html

  233. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 6:24 pm

    Or do they make shite up just to muddy the waters?

    The waters are getting back to colour they were under Gillard for the msm. To me, this can only mean that Labors GST fact campaign is hitting them as hard as their latest anointed one.

    Labor knockback on family payment cuts forces Coalition to go back to crossbench

    ….

    “Labor has demonstrated that we are not opposed to fair and reasonable changes to family payments – but it should not be at the expense of families who can least afford it.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/10/labor-knockback-on-family-payment-cuts-forces-coalition-back-to-crossbench?CMP=share_btn_tw

  234. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 6:32 pm

    Can you imagine the outrage if Shorten had shares like this?

    Malcolm Turnbull’s Dirty Money Means Oz Won’t Be Taken Seriously At Paris Climate Talks, says 350.org

    https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/08/malcolm-turnbulls-dirty-money-means-oz-wont-be-taken-seriously-at-paris-climate-talks-says-350-org/

    I mean, he’s been hunted and castigated for months by our intrepid meeja for the duplicitous crime of getting workers better pay and conditions

  235. November 10, 2015 6:59 pm

    The `team` should have closed loop-holes when they ran the show for 6-years, instead they imploded.

  236. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 10, 2015 7:10 pm

    A very weird press conference where Dutton details the crimes of the ‘vast majority’ of hardened criminals on xmas island, but says nothing nothing about why asylum seekers/refugees are in there with them and how much exposure they have to these hardened criminals.

    John hewson on #thedrum says he found it ‘quite bizarre’ and someone needs to explain to him why these criminals were on xmas island when they should be in villawood awaiting deportation. Hewson thinks someone should be held accountable for AS and refugees being held with criminals.

  237. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 7:18 pm

    ramble`Me `Up`Teapointlessbag #emptyvessel incoherent rants about tobacco coloured cartons and his neighbours all knowing nothiningless

    yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn

    Australia regains control of its island detention centre after three days of utter chaos

    I just saw it on the project AO, They said “two days of unrest” 😯

  238. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 10, 2015 7:22 pm

    A very weird press conference where Dutton details the crimes of the ‘vast majority’ of hardened criminals on xmas island, but says nothing nothing about why asylum seekers/refugees are in there with them and how much exposure they have to these hardened criminals.

    I heard that on the radio. The mixture of people in detention on CI is now different. It used to be just asylum seekers. Now it is New Zealanders, criminals and asylum seekers.

  239. November 10, 2015 7:26 pm

    hewson,,,,,,,someone should be held accountable,,,,,,,,

    #yes, agree, and how often have we heard that? so many times we can`t count, and how many times has blib and his rabble made them accountable? never .. the only squeezing of the teabags being done is by xeno, pups, greenz, indies .. while blib hunkers down trying to be a small target or shadows the teabags by being as teabag-lite as he can get away with

  240. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 7:27 pm

    Now it is New Zealanders, criminals and asylum seekers.

    Yea, but who ‘hardened’ ’em?

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/11/09/peter-dutton-missing-as-christmas-island-chaos-creates-international-headlines/#comment-118453

  241. TB Queensland permalink
    November 10, 2015 7:29 pm

    Malcolm Turnbull’s Dirty Money Means Oz Won’t Be Taken Seriously At Paris Climate Talks, says 350.org

    I just read that link, TR. Including Milkum Turncoat’s linked “bullshit” article from 2009 …

    y’know the more I watch this Liberal charade unfold… the more my “conspiracy theory” takes shape …

    And it’s this … what if …

    MT agreed to take on the PM job and oust Abbott … but, to get the guaranteed numbers from the far right faction … he had to take the current policies over the line with him …

    But! What if …

    This was a plot within a plot and after the election, TM will be blindsided and the completion of the plan will reinstate Abbott soon after the 2016 election … ?

    Just thinkin’ out loud … 😉

  242. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 7:32 pm

    ramble`Me `Up`Teapointlessbag

    yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn

  243. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 7:38 pm

    Just thinkin’ out loud …

    There’s a lot of “out loud” going on TB, it’s nice to have thinking linked with it for a change.

    Personally, I think they just shit themselves at how monumentally stupid and ignorant yabot was and grabbed the nearest lifeboat.

    And we are all still heaving a collective sigh of relief 😉

  244. November 10, 2015 7:46 pm

    teebz, l agree talkbull got/has support on condition of sticking with current zombie-policies .. there will be no significant change beyond `style` and communication .. the zombies won`t `blind-side` talkbull provided he toes the teabag-line .. which he knows .. talkbull has spent the last X-years publicly signaling to the teabag-herd that .. the leader serve as `privilege` of the party/room .. said by talkbull at every qandaland-like opportunity .. winning will keep talkbull leading the zombies

  245. November 10, 2015 8:03 pm

    somebodies pom-poms are coming `un-glued`

  246. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 10, 2015 8:21 pm

    TURC re NUW

    Nothing to worry about, it’s all under control, mind your own business, it’s a political beat up.

  247. Tom R permalink
    November 10, 2015 8:47 pm

    it’s a political beat up.

    You’re finally gettin’ on board yomm 😉

    But Labor’s Brendan O’Connor, whose brother heads the CFMEU, makes a strong case for a more effective use of taxpayers’ money to achieve the same results. As a former Home Affairs Minister he had responsibility for the Australian Crimes Commission.

    He says that the commission has coercive powers and a special taskforce set up by it with even a tenth of the funding made available to the royal commission could do the job.

    Of course, the problem with that is taskforce investigations are done out of the spotlight. They don’t hit the headlines until charges are laid.

    That simply didn’t suit. A kangaroo court smearing your opponents was a much more attractive proposition.

    http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2015/11/09/hopping-kangaroo-court/

  248. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 10, 2015 8:49 pm

    Looks like the ALP is up to its old tricks. The Victorian ALP has a history of wasting money.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/east-west-link-project-dumped-project-costs-soar-by-hundreds-of-millions/news-story/906f97775cf744f7c062c7e2c7d3b30c

    DUMPING East West Link could cost Victorian taxpayers $221 million more than the Andrews Government previously admitted………The revelation means the total amount of taxpayer money wasted on a non-existent road could now rise to $861 million.

  249. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 10, 2015 9:58 pm

    Yeah! Don’t worry about a family knocking off the cash of stores people. It’s all a beat up, but maybe someone should brief the NUW federal secretary about that.

  250. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 1:46 am

    …Kevin Rudd has mounted a scathing attack on Cardinal George Pell for being a “radical climate change sceptic” who is “muddying the ethical waters” ahead of the critical Paris climate change conference, in direct contradiction to the views of Pope Francis…

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/10/kevin-rudd-slams-george-pell-as-radical-climate-sceptic-ahead-of-paris-talks

  251. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 6:57 am

    …Kevin Rudd has mounted a scathing attack on Cardinal George Pell

    lol AO, I note he also couldn’t resist digging the boot into Gillard either.

    As shocked and unhappy as I was with his removal, his behaviour since shows just why they did it. sb summed him up perfectly. What beggars belief is, why did they make him leader to begin with?

    Perhaps Labor needs MORE Union influence, not less 😉

    Don’t worry about a family knocking off the cash of stores people.

    What was heard this week is concerning. But, I thought this commission was going after a culture of intimidation and corruption, not isolated incidents of theft (that should be taken care of by normal channels)

    “Of course, the problem with that is taskforce investigations are done out of the spotlight. They don’t hit the headlines until charges are laid.”

  252. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 7:01 am

    Yea, but who ‘hardened’ ’em?

    I answered that

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/11/09/peter-dutton-missing-as-christmas-island-chaos-creates-international-headlines/#comment-118556

    The use of force is also recorded for a large number of asylum seekers who attempted self-harm.

    “Unplanned use of force used on detainee who self-harmed, from further injury to himself and others and taken to NWP medical clinic.”
    “Detainee was self-harming by hitting his head against a wall. Use of force required to prevent injury.

    The Guardian headline is misleading.

  253. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 7:13 am

    And it seems turnbull is just as bad as yabot was in regards to action on AGW

    The Turnbull government’s “Direct Action” policy cannot meet even the “inadequate” emission reductions it will pledge at the UN climate meeting in Paris and in fact will allow Australia’s greenhouse pollution to rise, according to the Climate Institute.

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/10/direct-action-destined-to-fail-even-with-low-paris-pledge-climate-institute-says

    Same shit, different suit.

  254. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 8:13 am

    Does TomR still defend this guy?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/craig-thomsons-use-of-union-money-worse-than-credit-for-sex/story-fn59noo3-1227603927102?sv=b8daf9c79e7ba333f5f509fffe418530

    Former Labor MP Craig Thomson’s use of hundreds of thousands of dollars of union members’ money for his electoral campaign was more serious than using credit cards for prostitutes, a court has heard………In September, Justice Jessup found Thomson had used more than $300,000 of Health Services Union funds to pay for prostitutes and his election campaign during his time as national secretary ­between August 2002 and his election in December 2007……..Mr McArdle acknowledged that a plausible explanation for his client’s use of union credit cards to pay for sexual services “could not be contemplated”, but argued Thomson’s only wrongdoing in his use of union money on his political campaign was his “serious breach of process” in failing to get the union executive to sign off on the spending

  255. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 8:24 am

    Does TomR still defend this guy?

    I’ll defend what actually happened, not slurs posted in a coalition hit magazine that distorts and implies solely from what accusations are made.

    http://wixxyleaks.com/judgement-day-the-end-of-the-road-for-craig-thomson/

  256. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 8:36 am

    Now THIS is a scare campaign

  257. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 11, 2015 8:46 am

    Go GST @ 15%!

    Compliance costs are currently very high, simplify and compensate is the answer.

  258. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 9:00 am

    From another of the coalitions smear sheets

    For all of the controversy and jokes made about the spelling of his name you would think that Costello or News Ltd editors may have picked up that it is actually Thomson without a P.

    Thomson was convicted of 13 counts of theft and had no funds to appeal the convictions that he denied throughout his trial. Given Thomson’s denials he certainly tendered no evidence of any mental state that contributed towards events he denies.

    http://wixxyleaks.com/hey-st-peter-peter-costello-displays-his-ignorance-on-unions/

  259. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 9:02 am

    simplify and compensate is the answer.

    er, doesn’t the compensation make that ‘simplification” not so simple?

    AND

    If you need to compensate, doesn’t that indicate that there is something wrong with the tax itself? Why not change that?

  260. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 9:55 am

    Why are we talking about a GST? It’s not coalition policy and the last I heard they aren’t even interested in it. 😉

    Apparently, we don’t even have a revenue problem.

  261. November 11, 2015 9:56 am

    “”UP 15%””

    Isn’t that just a tad misleading when the current rumour/speculation/non-policy policy is to increase by 5%……..?

  262. Walrus permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:00 am

    “And I was having a dig a latika, who printed a story this morning about “sources” telling her Labor would up the baccy again, but then someone from Labor came out and called bullshit………”

    TomR……………have you apologised to Latika yet ?

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/smokings-disastrous-bill-shorten-confirms-labor-is-considering-raising-the-tobacco-tax-20151110-gkvtbr.html

  263. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:00 am

  264. TB Queensland permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:02 am

    What beggars belief is, why did they make him leader to begin with?

    I’m disappointed, TR! Your memory can’t possibly be that short … ‘scuse the pun … ’cause the answer to your question was manifestly simple at the time … John Howard!

    Will Milkum Turncoat suffer the same fate as Rudd?

    It’s taken a while but some folks are waking up … never smile at a crocodile!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/progressive-australias-infatuation-with-malcolm-turnbull-will-only-end-in-heartbreak

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Compliance costs are currently very high, simplify and compensate is the answer.

    Compliance costs very high? How does 15% GST on everything improve that?

    And while we’re on the subject … “compensation” … is a fleeting thing … full age pension for a couple is around $34,000 … provide 5% compensation $1700 pa …

    Compliance costs? FMD what about the people most affected?

    Households in financial stress

    A key element of people’s living standards is the amount of discretion they have in their spending on goods and services to meet their needs. While ABS measures of income and wealth provide information on the main economic resources available to households to support their material command over goods and services expenditure and statistics can describe people’s associated consumption patterns, these measures do not necessarily tell the full story of how households are coping financially. For example, households may go without key goods and services, or seek financial assistance from others, to meet financial commitments or to maintain other expenditure. The extent to which this occurs can provide an indication of the overall financial stress experienced by households.

    The reporting of financial stress does not necessarily imply that a household has low income. Nevertheless, financial stress indicators decrease as equivalised disposable household income increases. For example, 64% of the lowest equivalised disposable income quintile have at least one indicator of financial stress while only 20% of households in the highest quintile reported an indication of financial stress. The ability to afford a holiday for at least one week per year and the ability to afford a night out once a fortnight are the most commonly reported indicators of financial stress at 25% and 19% respectively.

    http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/6530.0Main%20Features22009-10?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=6530.0&issue=2009-10&num=&view=

  265. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:04 am

    Increase In GST To Create Fairer, Broader System Where Apple Still Pays No Tax

    And why should Apple pay tax here? Their computers are made overseas and are fully imported.

    Why are lefties so deceitful?

  266. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:08 am

    “”UP 15%””

    Isn’t that just a tad misleading when the current rumour/speculation/non-policy policy is to increase by 5%……..?

    Yes, it’s actually up 50% 😆

  267. November 11, 2015 10:09 am

    “”Yes, it’s actually up 50%””

    🙂

    See, you should’ve been their PR person KL… 🙂

  268. Walrus permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:25 am

    Didn’t someone mention the other day that there were quite a few of these Carcharhinus leucas and others around

    Happy surfing !

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/man-attacked-by-shark-at-east-ballina-northern-nsw-20151110-gkvnr4.html

  269. Walrus permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:30 am

    “Yea, but who ‘hardened’ ’em?”

    So says the “excuse for everything man” !

  270. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:41 am

    And why should Apple pay tax here? Their computers are made overseas and are fully imported.

    If they have shops in australia [where australians are geoblocked and forced to use them] and they gouge australians more for their products, why shouldn’t they be paying tax here?

    When they charge a specific ‘australia tax’ on products they should pay tax in australia for it.

  271. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:51 am

    James Hardie’s Baryulgil asbestos mining ‘genocide’
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/health/2015/11/07/james-hardies-baryulgil-asbestos-mining-genocide/14468148002595

    …As the next generation of a northern NSW Aboriginal community waits for signs of fatal disease caused by asbestos, compensation remains non-existent…

    …“With the Baryulgil mob, they weren’t expected to live long enough to get the disease.”…

    …Most of the men at Baryulgil worked in appalling conditions in the mine, until its closure in the late ’70s. They used to come home covered in asbestos dust. “Like ghosts,” Walker says.

    The children played in asbestos in the school sandpit. The ground was white. They fished in the river, hunted kangaroos that Walker believes were full of asbestos, ate peaches covered in the dust.

    “They used to use the empty [asbestos] bags for curtains. For floor coverings, covers for their beds,” says Robson. “Their water was from the two creeks that came out of the mine. That was drinking, washing – everything.”…

  272. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 10:57 am

    If they have shops in australia [where australians are geoblocked and forced to use them] and they gouge australians more for their products, why shouldn’t they be paying tax here?

    Think of it the other way around. We don’t make much stuff here anymore but we do make Akubra hats here. If some Canadian buys an Australian made hat fully imported into Canada why should the Akubra company pay tax to the Canadian Tax Office?

    Some Canadian company would import the hat into Canada, put some mark up to cover expenses and make a small profit. If that Canadian company makes a profit that is the only company that should be paying tax, not Akubra.

  273. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:02 am

  274. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:12 am

    Think of it the other way around.

    No, that’s a cherry picked and disingenuous scenario that doesn’t represent what apple does here.

    Some Canadian company would import the hat into Canada, put some mark up to cover expenses and make a small profit. If that Canadian company makes a profit that is the only company that should be paying tax, not Akubra.

    If the akubra hat company had shops [physical and electronic] in canada, made their profits in canada from the canadian people and the only place to buy the hats in canada was through their shops and you then slugged them extra for shopping there because you thought they should pay more than australians do, shouldn’t they be paying tax in canada?

  275. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:25 am

    If the akubra hat company had shops [physical and electronic] in canada, made their profits in canada from the canadian people and the only place to buy the hats in canada was through their shops and you then slugged them extra for shopping there because you thought they should pay more than australians do, shouldn’t they be paying tax in canada?

    OK i am in an area where my knowledge is close to zero. But if Akubra did have shops in Canada i am sure those shops would be paying tax in Canada on any profits they made.

    The Akurbra company in Australia would also make a profit making the hat. I fail to see why the Akubra company in Australia should be paying tax to the Canadian govt.

    I am sure that the Apple stores in Australia who import Apple computers are paying tax to the ATO on profits they make importing the computers.

    I fail to see why Apple in the USA should be paying tax to the Australian govt. Only those stores in Australia who import the computers should be paying tax and i am sure they do.

  276. Walrus permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:26 am

    NoS

    If BHP Billiton sold everything it dug up to Australian resident company BHP Billiton (Singapore) Pty Limited at cost then BHP Billiton would pay no company tax since it made no profit

    Lets say BHP Billiton (Singapore) Pty Limited then ships it offshore and whilst in transit it then sells it to China and gets taxed at 15% on the sales figure in Singapore and pays tax to the Singapore Government.

    By the way note the sale did not take place in China it took place on the high seas

    You are quite OK with that ?

  277. Walrus permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:27 am

    “……..on profits they make importing the computers”

    NoS……..that’s an inventory purchase

  278. November 11, 2015 11:31 am

    I can feel my eyes glazing over.

  279. TB Queensland permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:32 am

    Didn’t someone mention the other day that there were quite a few of these Carcharhinus leucas and others around

    Happy surfing !

    Gloating? ? ? o_O

  280. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:37 am

    You are quite OK with that ?

    Don’t understand

    NoS……..that’s an inventory purchase

    I think i understand that. But lefties want Apple to pay tax to the Australian govt on profits they make. I fail to see why an American company should be paying tax to the ATO.

    Only companies in Australia should be paying tax to the ATO. And if Apple has a shop in Australia i am sure that shop pays tax on profits they make.

  281. TB Queensland permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:44 am

    They fished in the river, hunted kangaroos that Walker believes were full of asbestos, ate peaches covered in the dust.

    Not that it is relevant … there was enough in the air! But you can actually ingest asbestos with no deleterious effects … inhalation causes asbestosis and mesothelioma … but may take years …

    A friend of ours was 65 when she died – her father worked with asbestos … her mother washed his work clothes …

    Not to alarmist but Australia is awash with the fkn stuff!

    16 years in the auto trade puts me in a high risk category … and I worked for JH … hence my interest …

  282. TB Queensland permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:47 am

    I can feel my eyes glazing over.

    I can see the glaze …

  283. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:47 am

    OK i am in an area where my knowledge is close to zero.

    Me too, but that’s never stopped any of us before 😆

    Thanks walrus.

    But if Akubra did have shops in Canada i am sure those shops would should be paying tax in Canada on any profits they made.

    Finally, I rest my case!

    In australia, apple is not doing that, it shifts it’s australian profits offshore and pays no or little tax here on purchases we make here.

    I can feel my eyes glazing over.

    😆

    This is what you call a grudging correction, forced under threat of newscorp funded defamation action.

  284. TB Queensland permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:48 am

    And if Apple has a shop in Australia i am sure that shop pays tax on profits they make.

    Sure your sure … we’re not …

  285. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:52 am

    The Akurbra company in Australia would also make a profit making the hat. I fail to see why the Akubra company in Australia should be paying tax to the Canadian govt.

    How do you make a profit from making something? Doesn’t that cost you?

    It is the selling of the hat that makes the profit isn’t it?

  286. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:54 am

    In australia, apple is not doing that, it shifts it’s australian profits offshore and pays no or little tax here on purchases we make here.

    Are you sure? In fact i know you do not know.

    Lefties want Apple to pay tax on profits they make assembling computers overseas.

    Only Apple stores in Australia who import a fully assembled computer should be paying tax and i am sure they do.

  287. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 11:58 am

    Isn’t that just a tad misleading

    Yes. Which is why I highlighted that NOW they are running a scare campaign. Up until that, it was just simple facts, and that got called a scare campaign

    Yes, it’s actually up 50%

    reb X2 🙂

    TomR……………have you apologised to Latika yet ?

    For what? She said Labor were planning to bring in a baccy tax, Shorten even disagreed with her

    What did Shorten say

    governments of all political persuasions have seen good public policy for raising excise there but as I said we haven’t made a final decision.

    ie … NO PLANS!

    It’s called English, you’ll get the hang of it soon enough 😉

    mslatika should to. I love the way she interprets it to try and save face

    Mr Shorten’s confirmation that the increase is under consideration

    He didn’t ever confirm it was under consideration, not from the titbit we are fed anyway. And who knows how much else that was clarified. But, even “under consideration” is a far cry from

    Labor to raise tobacco taxes, again, to pay for Gonski reforms

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/labor-to-raise-tobacco-taxes-again-to-pay-for-gonski-reforms-20151109-gku8lj.html#ixzz3r8jYwCNE

    But somebody is owed an apology. Just not in the way you think

    OK i am in an area where my knowledge is close to zero

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  288. TB Queensland permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:00 pm

    LEST WE FORGET

  289. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:00 pm

    So, how come the aussie profits from aussie stores and sales end up in singapore and then ireland neil?

    Tax deal: How Apple shifts its billions out of Australia:
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/tax-deal-how-apple-shifts-its-billions-out-of-australia-20140305-347×9?rand=1394759824897#ixzz3r8kiyp1Q

  290. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:01 pm

  291. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:02 pm

    … we’re not …

    Isn’t that kinda what this whole “debate” is about?

  292. TB Queensland permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:04 pm

    … the monetary cost of commemoration over the four years of Anzac 100. A figure calculated by the organisation Honest History estimates it at approximately $552m of mostly federal, state and territory money.

    As James Brown, the former army officer, Iraq veteran and author of the acclaimed book Anzac’s Long Shadow recently pointed out, every dollar spent commemorating a long-dead soldier was not spent on a needier, living veteran.

    “We’re spending millions on monuments which catalogue every death in world war one yet until last year no one was tracking the number of returning modern veterans taking their own lives,” Brown said.

    “There are direct opportunity costs: $88m from the defence budget spent on a museum in France is $88m not going towards weapons training or personnel costs.”

    Let’s, by all means, remember the dead – but spend on the living.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/postcolonial-blog/2015/nov/11/lavish-spending-first-world-war-commemorations-cloak-distasteful-reality

  293. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:16 pm

    And let’s not forget that visas are revoked by peter dutton, don’t let him make out it’s a departmental decision that is remote from himself and his oversight.

    …A New Zealand MP has slammed the decision of Immigration Minister Peter Dutton to revoke the visa of a Maori infantryman who was decorated for his service in Afghanistan and has no criminal record…

    …”I think the Australian government has forgotten what the Anzac spirit actually means. They are treating Kiwis in Australia as less than second-class citizens.”
    Ms Fox raised the issue with New Zealand’s Prime Minister John Key in their Parliament on Tuesday and will seek to table details of the man’s war record and arrest on Wednesday. Mr Key said he was unaware of the case….

    …Ko received three medals of honour before leaving the military in 2012 and moving to Australia, where his supporters say he formed a relationship with a woman, became a father figure to her son and found work as a fly in, fly out worker on the West Australian mines.

    Ko was arrested last week while visiting a friend at Casuarina Prison and had his visa revoked, apparently on the basis that he is a member of an outlaw motorcycle club, the Rebels, which is not a criminal organisation in WA…

  294. Walrus permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:21 pm

    “Ko was arrested last week ……… apparently on the basis that he is a member of an outlaw motorcycle club, the Rebels, which is not a criminal organisation in WA…”

    Ko was arrested last week………..apparently on the basis that he is a member of an outlaw motorcycle club, the Rebels, which is an affiliate of the CFMEU in WA…

    Fixed it for ya !

  295. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:23 pm

    So, how come the aussie profits from aussie stores and sales end up in singapore and then ireland neil?

    AS you know i think lefties are the masters of deceit and as you know my tax knowledge is close to zero. Your link said this

    Last year Apple reported pretax earnings in Australia of only $88.5 million after it sent an estimated $2 billion of income from its Australian sales to Ireland via Singapore, where Apple negotiated a secret tax deal in 2009.

    I have no idea if this is true. But let us say Apple sold $2B worth of computers in Australia. Only those companies which imported the computers should be paying tax and i am sure they do.

    Lefties want Apple head office to be paying tax in Australia. And Apple head office is not in Australia. It appears to me that the people being ripped of is the American public. Apple is shifting its taxes offshore so they can avoid paying tax to the American govt.

    Now if Apple computers were assembled in Australia you would have a point.

  296. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:32 pm

    which is an affiliate of the CFMEU in WA…

    LINK!

    oh, don’t bother, I have one 😉

    It’s just a shame it says the opposite of what you keep regurgitating

  297. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 12:56 pm

    …Only those companies which imported the computers should be paying tax and i am sure they do…

    Great faith you have there neil, unfortunately, you being sure of something doesn’t make it true.

    …which is an affiliate of the CFMEU in WA…
    Fixed it for ya !

    Is there no freedom of association for the individual anymore? Is the CFMEU an illegal organisation, is it illegal to be associated with it or a member of it?

  298. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 1:03 pm

    Great faith you have there neil, unfortunately, you being sure of something doesn’t make it true.

    OK I agree with that. But this does appear to be lefties being envious of people making a profit.

    Some person overseas has an idea, makes a product, puts it into a well designed box and lefties want some of the profit when the guy who does all the work sells the product to somebody living in Australia.

    Only the company who imports the well designed overseas made product should be paying tax in Australia and i am sure they do.

  299. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 1:15 pm

  300. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 1:17 pm

  301. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 1:29 pm

    lol, while malcaymans government is busy not having a discussion about the GST, Labor, the Greens and the independents are getting on with the job of running the country

    Amid the maelstrom over the GST, the Senate last night passed what may be the most useful piece of legislation yet to combat multinational tax avoidance. The new law was not carried by the government, whose track record on tackling big tax dodgers has been heavy on rhetoric but light on performance.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/transparency-is-best-tonic-for-multinational-tax-avoidance-20151110-gkvt5x.html#ixzz3r972oiIO
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

    Let’s not forget the changes hockey did to Labors previous reform in this area either. Whatever they were lol

  302. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 1:31 pm

    poor old malcaymans got no fwends

  303. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 1:39 pm

    lol, while malcaymans government is busy not having a discussion about the GST, Labor, the Greens and the independents are getting on with the job of running the country

    And i predict that this legislation will raise another 5 maybe 10 dollars while costing us several millions dollars to implement.

    Why don’t you leftie deadbeats get back to fixing up the mess you created from 2007-2013.

    We had no problems until Rudd was elected.

  304. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 3:05 pm

    File under “no shit Sherlock”

    The Turnbull government and its friends are manufacturing some shonky reasons why hiking and broadening the goods and services tax is a good idea.

    https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/turnbull-government-using–shonky-reasoning–on-tax-025706292.html

  305. Tom R permalink
    November 11, 2015 3:06 pm

    And re yomms “simplification”

  306. Walrus permalink
    November 11, 2015 5:09 pm

    “………..and lefties want some of the profit when the guy who does all the work sells the product to somebody living in Australia.”

    It’s called Income Tax because it is paid primarily where you earn that Income. The operative word being “earn”.

    If there is a double tax agreement any tax paid here in Australia is treated as a credit on tax he might have to pay in China or the USA. So if he pays 20% tax in the USA he will calculate what that is in $ and deduct the amount he pays in Oz to give a net amount to pay to the IRS or whoever.

    Got it ?????????????????????

  307. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 6:31 pm

    I’m not sure, but I think neil could be calling you a ‘lefty’ walrus 😆

    The way that I see it, the more these corporations are avoiding their tax obligations, the more the aussie taxpayer is expected to cough up the shortfall [increasing the GST, lack of services etc]

  308. November 11, 2015 6:34 pm

    TPP’s clauses that let Australia be sued are weapons of legal destruction, says lawyer..

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/10/tpps-clauses-that-let-australia-be-sued-are-weapons-of-legal-destruction-says-lawyer?CMP=soc_567

  309. Walrus permalink
    November 11, 2015 6:35 pm

    “I’m not sure, but I think neil could be calling you a ‘lefty’ walrus”

    I agree…………all because I voted for Rudd…………..fuck I even voted for Latham.

  310. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 6:53 pm

    Life is pretty easy for the privileged, wish I could have a personal escort to manoeuvre me through traffic while exercising.

  311. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 7:16 pm

    Got it ?????????????????????

    Not really. If i make handmade clocks in my home and sell them overseas i do not see why i should be paying any tax to a foreign govt. Just say a Canadian wants to buy one of my clocks, i work out it costs me $100 to make and ship it to Canada. I tell him i will sell him the clock for $120. That covers my cost and gives me $20 profit.

    I will of course pay tax on my profit to the ATO but i cannot see why i have to pay tax to the Canadian govt.

  312. November 11, 2015 7:24 pm

    k,,,,,,,,OK i am in an area where my knowledge is close to zero. But if Akubra,,,,,,,,,

    #oh.teabags.isn`t.it.always

  313. TB Queensland permalink
    November 11, 2015 8:27 pm

    …………..fuck I even voted for Latham

    even I didn’t do that! And scored a fine!

  314. November 11, 2015 8:35 pm

    AO,,,,,,,,,corporations are avoiding their tax obligations, the more the aussie taxpayer is expected to cough up the shortfall,,,,,,,,,

    #while true armchair, the greatest `injustice` within the tax-systems and arrangements in teh-west is, the `locking-out` of local-citizens of their own market-place, in favour of corporate monsters that can afford to hire `parasitic` lawyers and accountants to set-up paper-entities in off-shore havens that, ensure they pay sweet-fa in the markets they rip so much out of.

    #Before the bleating starts from `our` usual suspects, what l mean by that is, no matter `how-much` education or hard-work your kids do, or anybody elses, your kid has no-hope in hell of building and/or owning their own (not-franchise) petrol station, super-market, butchers, fruit+veg, as the system is sewn-up against `new-player`, unless your another monster like aldi.

  315. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 8:51 pm

    #while true armchair,

    Why is this true?

    Why should Apple which designs, manufactures, wraps, packages, boxes, computers overseas pay taxes in Australia?

    The only tax to be paid is the company which imports the computers and put a mark up on the money they pay to Apple to import the computer.

  316. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 11, 2015 9:19 pm

    Why should Apple which designs, manufactures, wraps, packages, boxes, computers overseas pay taxes in Australia?

    It doesn’t do any of that stuff in the US or Ireland either, so why should the sales profits be going there?

    Walrus did explain it to you but you continue to be wilfully blind to all reason and evidence of apple avoiding tax here.

    Do they flog their products in australia? Does it have a presence in australia?

    Didn’t walrus explain all that to you?

    Why should we let Apple trade here at all?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-06/tax-expert-explains-how-apple-pays-193m-tax-on-27b-revenue/5303426
    …”It’s basically what we call transfer pricing – so Australia Apple purchased the iPads from Ireland and Ireland of course, the Irish company is in fact a paper company, it has virtually no employees, very small costs and all the products are manufactured in China by third party manufacturers,” he said…

  317. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 11, 2015 9:25 pm

    It doesn’t do any of that stuff in the US or Ireland either, so why should the sales profits be going there?

    Have you heard of Steve Jobs?

    Walrus did explain it to you but you continue to be wilfully blind to all reason and evidence of apple avoiding tax here.

    No i am not blind. I do not understand why a company which designs, manufactures, wraps, packages, produces a product overseas should pay tax in Australia.

  318. November 11, 2015 10:29 pm

    k,,,,,,,Why is this true?,,,,,,,,

    #coz stupid pills are available in abundance

  319. Real Fake Apple permalink
    November 12, 2015 1:36 am

    In freeriderspace there’s no public good or floating exchange of common currency paid customs officers to hear your registered limited liability company’s design patent’s manufacturing process patent’s wrap copyrights’s packaging authentication’s unproductive scream.

  320. TomRU12 permalink
    November 12, 2015 8:46 am

    I get the feeling this isn’t news to TB and some others 😉

    Instead of working to make Australia a better and more equal place, we are stuck discussing a meagre range of “reform” options that ask everything of the average citizen and almost nothing of the most well off, writes Tim Dunlop.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-12/dunlop-the-problem-with-turnbull%27s-great-%27reform%27-platform/6933454

    He hasn’t changed their targets, changed changed their angle from which to strike.

  321. TomRU12 permalink
    November 12, 2015 8:51 am

    An interesting article from an Associate professor at La Trobe Law School Dr Jill Murray on the (possible) “Error of Law in Royal Commission Submissions on the AWU?”

    The reality is that collective labour relations involve pragmatism, strategy and compromise, and the juggling of workplace and union objectives. Union officials cannot control the outcomes of bargaining, which is the art of the possible from the union perspective. This is a world away from the absolute duty of loyalty envisaged in the fiduciary concept. Wrongs may have been committed by the AWU officials examined by the Royal Commission, but fiduciary law is not an appropriate legal lens through which to view their actions.

    http://law.blogs.latrobe.edu.au/2015/11/11/error-of-law-in-royal-commission-submissions-on-the-awu/

    Something the media completely ignore also, particularly in the case of their attacks on Shorten and some of the deals he made (eg Chiquita Mushrooms) in probably the most offensive period of our industrial landscape.

  322. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 8:57 am

    Ca you imagine the Booing in QT?

    The Labor Party has approached retired footballer Adam Goodes about the prospect of running as a candidate at the next federal election.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/adam-goodes-approached-to-run-as-labor-candidate-20151111-gkwrb1.html#ixzz3rDrRFmMp
    Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

  323. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 9:09 am

    The latest from Tim Dunlop….

    Thanks reb 🙂

  324. TB Queensland permalink
    November 12, 2015 9:28 am

    chuckle …

  325. TB Queensland permalink
    November 12, 2015 9:29 am

    … see what I mean now, TR? 😉

  326. TB Queensland permalink
    November 12, 2015 9:35 am

    I see Tim almost got it right … Australians want to live a society, not an economy,

    (Should I actually be “quoting” him? — I think not!)

    I prefer to live in a society not survive in an economy!

  327. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 9:39 am

    … see what I mean now, TR?

    Please Explain 🙂

  328. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 9:42 am

    And what’s the bet the gathered throng just nodded their heads in unison, and will repeat it unquestioningly

    And fucken morons will it swallow hook, line and stinker

  329. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 12, 2015 9:57 am

    Thanks for tim’s link tomR & reb, I completely agree with every single word he wrote. It’s almost like he’s reading this blog at times!

    …Indeed, polling – not to mention the reaction to the first Abbott budget – suggests beyond a shadow of doubt that most Australians want to live a society, not an economy, and they want policies that provide us with a high standard of living in which we all share fairly…

  330. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 12, 2015 10:30 am

    Shorten’s recent island frolic would not have been very positive for the islanders and shows me why a vote for labor is wasted by those who want to see change. Labor ministers [on Q&A I think] say they won’t do anything about the farmers fight to stop CSG exploration forced upon them, it will be business as usual.

    https://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/mungo-maccallum/2015/09/2015/1447030127/tropic-blunder
    Tropic blunder: Bill Shorten’s Pacific jaunt exposed the limits of Labor’s climate ambition

    …But that was about the extent of the excitement. The Kiribati president Anote Tong suggested that Shorten might care to offer something more concrete than platitudes by making a commitment to no more new coal mines in Australia; he was firmly rebuffed. Coal, it appears, has a long and bipartisan future in Australia, and the exports will continue and expand as long as the demand can be maintained.

    And Shorten also failed to set deadlines, targets or even broad aspirations to reduce carbon emissions beyond the desultory program proposed by Malcolm Turnbull. The Opposition leader’s policy footwork was no more agile than his choreography…

  331. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 12, 2015 10:37 am

    In the thick of things:

  332. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 10:40 am

    AO

    Mungo forgot to mention Labors 50% renewable target. I’d have thought that would have been pertinent to his article,albeit not helpful from his angles perspective.

  333. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 12, 2015 10:44 am

    Malcolm’s away overseas and the miserable hard right seize their chance.
    Obviously abetz [and his fellow dumpees] are not accepting of the new order coup and will be ‘doing a rudd’ whenever they can.
    Is abbott back in parly?

  334. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 10:49 am

    Is abbott back in parly?

    I reckon he made it back yesterday for his first time since his ignominious speech AO

    Can you imagine if a Labor MP went MIA for so long?

  335. November 12, 2015 11:00 am

    “”Obviously abetz [and his fellow dumpees] are not accepting of the new order coup “”

    I know! It’s hilarious isn’t it..? Poor old Erica, still licking his wounds and causing trouble while Talcum’s away…

  336. November 12, 2015 11:01 am

    BTW, did youse read about John Key’s remarks in parliament yesterday?

    It looks like NZ has their own version of Tony Abbott…

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/11/new-zealand-female-mps-mass-walkout-pm-rapists-comment

  337. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:12 am

    “I do not understand why a company which designs, manufactures, wraps, packages, produces a product overseas should pay tax in Australia.”

    OK…………..I’m really gunna try and fuck with your head now NoS.

    Lets turn to the Services Industry.

    If you are born in England and educated in England all the way through University (in fact lets say you are a Rhodes Scholar you are that smart………………….now stay with me I know in your case its exageration LOL) and you become a doctor then a specialist in brain tumours in fact you become the very fucking best in the world and then you move to Australia and get a job here…………………………WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU PAY TAX……….since you learnt everything you know in England ?

  338. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:16 am

    Worth reading

    http://www.tai.org.au/content/too-close-comfort

  339. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:16 am

    ………………………WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU PAY TAX……….

    If you are that rich, and living in Australia, probably nowhere 😉

  340. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:24 am

    government not adopting Senate amendments to tax disclosure. Turnbull turning back on the public to look after big business mates

    The last lines of Dunlops article coming to fruition?

  341. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:27 am

    WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU PAY TAX

    People resident in Australia pay tax in Australia. Apple is not resident in Australia. All the design, manufacturing, wrapping in plastic, boxing happens overseas. Apple should pay tax where that happens.

  342. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:30 am

    “Apple should pay tax where that happens.”

    Its where it is earn’t not where it is manufactured

  343. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:31 am

    BTW, did youse read about John Key’s remarks in parliament yesterday?

    I did reb, good on ’em for calling Keys out, I note they wanted them shut up real quick by tossing the women out of parliament.

  344. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:33 am

    “If you are that rich, and living in Australia, probably nowhere”

    Well if the forecast of the welfare bill in the future is correct and the marginal tax rate to maintain it is correct then I think you will find a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ moving offshore and retirees heading off to exotic joints like Bali and Penang and Phuket where they will rent beachfront apartments and return periodically to Oz for a medical.

  345. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:42 am

    Its where it is earn’t not where it is manufactured

    I have purchased lots of stuff on Ebay for my bicycle. It all comes from China. Why should the Chinese company who manufactures the stuff i buy pay tax in Australia?

  346. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:43 am

    OK…………..I’m really gunna try and fuck with your head now NoS.

    Won’t work walrus, it already is a scrambled mess of irrational thought and falsehoods.

    Its where it is earn’t not where it is manufactured

    Something that neil has completely, deliberately and wilfully refused to accept since yesterday [he’ll go on defending his alternative belief theory without any fact or evidence until the cows come home]

    And he denies he’s a troll?

  347. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:44 am

    INCOME TAX ASSESSMENT ACT 1997 – SECT 6.5

    (1) Your assessable income includes income according to ordinary concepts, which is called ordinary income .

    (2) If you are an Australian resident, your assessable income includes the ordinary income you derived directly or indirectly from all sources, whether in or out of Australia, during the income year.

    (3) If you are a foreign resident, your assessable income includes:

    (a) the ordinary income you derived directly or indirectly from all Australian sources during the income year; and

    (b) other ordinary income that a provision includes in your assessable income for the income year on some basis other than having an *Australian source.

  348. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:45 am

    “Won’t work walrus, it already is a scrambled mess of irrational thought and falsehoods. ”

    Yes………….I understand

  349. November 12, 2015 11:53 am

    “”I think you will find a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ moving offshore and retirees heading off to exotic joints like Bali and Penang and Phuket where they will rent beachfront apartments and return periodically to Oz for a medical.””

    My cover’s been blown! (although the hospitals in Penang are actually very good so no need to return home for the medical)

  350. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:54 am

    Looks like i am in disagreement with everybody who posts on this blog.

    And i am also the only person who post here who did not vote for Rudd. So i am happy with my opinions.

  351. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 11:58 am

    “My cover’s been blown!”

    Yep………..I’ve been researching the possibilities………………….not to buy anything just rent for a few months at a time then move on somewhere else.

    This looks nice as well http://www.kosamui.com/bophut/#promo

  352. November 12, 2015 11:58 am

    “”I have purchased lots of stuff on Ebay for my bicycle. “”

    Good for you Neil.

  353. November 12, 2015 12:03 pm

    Bophut is a beautiful spot Walrus.

    I was there earlier this year (when we went to Koh Samui).. I wish we had stayed in Bophut rather than the main drag of Koh Samui…

    It was just a nice enough distance away from then hustle and bustle, and very quiet and relaxing. Are you seriously considering buying or renting there?

  354. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 12, 2015 12:08 pm

    Good for you Neil.

    I have purchased lots of stuff on Ebay which comes from China. Why should the Chinese companies be paying tax in Australia?

  355. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 12:08 pm

    “Bophut is a beautiful spot Walrus.”

    Yep ……….I know………..thats why I’m researching it. Spent a week there 3 years ago on way back from Cambodia. A couple of Australian bars and seemingly quite a few French restaurant owners. Great restaurants with windows opening out onto the beach.

    Fantastic !

  356. November 12, 2015 12:12 pm

    Nice work Walrus. That would be a lovely place to retire and just travel around…

  357. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 12:19 pm

    Well if the forecast of the welfare bill in the future is correct

    Did you get that forecast from the daily telecrap?

  358. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 12:22 pm

    The Libs have got the daggers out for Julie Bishop….

    Speaking of which 🙂

  359. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 12, 2015 1:24 pm

    The Libs have got the daggers out for Julie Bishop….

    oh noes!
    I hope we don’t hear “deliberately barren, empty fruitbowl, living in sin, ditch the witch, no doesn’t mean no” or “bitch and witch” or an reference to the big glamour spread in a glossy magazine after JBish excoriated JGillard for the same.

    What has happened to stable, adult government I ask? 😆

  360. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 12, 2015 2:41 pm

    Tony Abbott stops the rage on roads, starts more among supporters of driver:
    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/tony-abbott-stops-the-rage-on-roads-starts-more-among-supporters-of-driver-20151111-gkwu40.html#ixzz3rFFjLuAl

    …He says an excellent bitumen path runs parallel to the road for cyclists to use.

    “The ACT cycling regulations also state, “It is recommended that cyclists ride in a single file (unless overtaking another cyclist).” That recommendation is rarely followed. I’m pro-cyclist, but am anti, boorish, rude, pack behaviour,” Mr Ferri said…

    …Mr Donald, a veteran cyclist who has spent most of his 58 years on roads throughout several continents reckons Mr Abbott and his lycra-clad buddies deserved everything the woman had given them – and some.
    “That entire stretch of road is single carriageway, narrow and has several extended and blind bends with a double centre line throughout. No car can safely overtake two or more cyclists riding side-by-side,” he said.

    “Thoughtless and arrogant even when he’s out of the House!”…

  361. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 3:16 pm

    …He says an excellent bitumen path runs parallel to the road for cyclists to use.

    Something about “privilege” in there I reckon 😉

    Having just looked on google, I would have been pissed off with a group of cyclist taking up the limited road and ignoring the bike path built specifically for them right next to it.

  362. November 12, 2015 3:24 pm

    dunlop,,,,,,,,,As we all know, Mr Turnbull is currently gliding by on the not-Abbott factor, and that probably has a bit more life left in it. But the day of reckoning is coming and he is going to have to decide whether he wants to govern for the 1 per cent or for everyone else.

    Nothing he has done to date suggests that the answer will be anything other than: the 1 per cent.,,,,,,,,#via.reb+teamcheerer

    #nice to see dunlop and some off-cuts of teabag-media are catching-up to the common-sense of the public instead of swooning over talkbull, (yes, it is possible to overdose on glee coz of the rabbit demise and not swoon over talkbull) while talkbull continues the zombie-march.

  363. TB Queensland permalink
    November 12, 2015 3:33 pm

    Please Explain

    Two Tim Dunlop links one comment apart … remember our discussion ‘tother day, TR?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    What has happened to stable, adult government I ask?

    You mean the adults are still NOT in charge, KL?

    Shorten wants 16 yo kids to run it … maybe I should re-consider my initial reaction …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Something about “privilege” in there I reckon

    Nah … Milkum got rid of the knighthoods … there still “entitlements” on the table, but …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    So where’s our toylet , these days …? Must be racking up them penalty rates, hey!

  364. November 12, 2015 3:45 pm

    it is unusual mungo gave blib that much of a spanking considering mungo is a `quintessential`leftoid` (unless l`m muddling my mungos), what it `really` looks like to me is blib and plib are off on a south-pacific island junket (bet it is taxpayer funded, there ya`go teabags) with photo-ops to insult or/and annoy the locals

    mungo,,,,,,,,,The Kiribati president Anote Tong suggested that Shorten might care to offer something more concrete than platitudes by making a commitment to no more new coal mines in Australia; he was firmly rebuffed. Coal, it appears, has a long and bipartisan future,,,,,,,,

    #teabag.lite #yaaaaaay.blib

  365. Tom R permalink
    November 12, 2015 3:51 pm

    remember our discussion ‘tother day, TR?

    Yea, but go easy on reb TB, it was early in the morning 😉

  366. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 3:53 pm

    “……on a south-pacific island junket (bet it is taxpayer funded, there ya`go teabags) with photo-ops to insult or/and annoy the locals ”

    Described this morning as “Tropic Blunder”

  367. November 12, 2015 3:59 pm

    t,,,,,,,,Ca you imagine the Booing in QT?,,,,,,,,

    #Ca you imagine the Booing `at` the ballot box?

    #shows how desperate blib`s mob are, now out canvassing for `celebrity` candidates, l suppose if goodes `really` wants to find-out about `unpopularity`, team-blib is a good place to start

  368. TB Queensland permalink
    November 12, 2015 4:04 pm

    Goodes … fk if I write anything it would be racist wouldn’t it?

  369. November 12, 2015 4:36 pm

    does anybody know if polls are done on individual seats, l want to start watching plib and albo seats to see if the greenz can snag them

  370. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 12, 2015 5:11 pm

    Australians want to live a society, not an economy,

    Don’t tell me Tim Dunlop is now showing every sign of being a mindless leftist – now including plagiarism!

  371. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 12, 2015 5:12 pm

    Goodes … fk if I write anything it would be racist wouldn’t it?

    Well, you are in Queensland…

  372. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 5:21 pm

    “………l want to start watching plib and albo seats to see if the greenz can snag them”

    Moves afoot to move Albo next door to the seat of Barton. Gawd I do hope the Greens get at Tanya

  373. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 12, 2015 5:26 pm

    What is it with the ALP and paedophiles?

  374. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 5:40 pm

    What is it with the Left and its need to be outraged every day ?

    White people cooking exotic recipes is rascist ??????????????????????

    http://theconversation.com/recipes-for-racism-kitchen-cabinet-and-the-politics-of-food-50516

  375. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 5:42 pm

    Yep Splatter……………………If you put him in a line up I guarantee 90% of people if asked to guess which bloke is a ped they’d point to him

  376. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 12, 2015 6:04 pm

    “What is it with the Left and its need to be outraged every day ?”

    The outrage reinforces their feeling of moral superiority and thus gives meaning to there otherwise utterly useless lives.

  377. November 12, 2015 6:13 pm

    blubbers,,,,,,,Moves afoot to move Albo next door to the seat of Barton,,,,,,

    #if true blubbers, that sounds like the team are admitting the greenz will snag the seat .. plib is in the heart of the sydney `latte-belt`, are the team throwing her a `life-line` too

  378. November 12, 2015 6:18 pm

    “”Well, you are in Queensland…””

    That’s what I was thinking but was just too polite to say it.

  379. Walrus permalink
    November 12, 2015 6:31 pm

    “The outrage reinforces their feeling of moral superiority and thus gives meaning to there otherwise utterly useless lives.”

    Oh……….OK……….hence the slogan…………

    “Australians* want to live a society, not an economy, ”

    * Insert “I” when felt appropriate

  380. TB Queensland permalink
    November 12, 2015 7:24 pm

    Dopey Dutton … what a fkn moron … no wonder the Queensland cops didn’t want him …

    A decorated former soldier who faces deportation from Australia as a security risk – despite a military record including acting as bodyguard for the New Zealand prime minister in Afghanistan – has asked from prison: “Doesn’t John Key remember me?”

    The case of Ngati Kanohi Te Eke Haapu, also known as Ko Rutene, is at the centre of an emerging trans-Tasman political dispute over Australia’s hardline approach to deporting New Zealand-born residents on “character grounds”.

    Rutene, who has no criminal record, is one of up to 300 mostly New Zealand-born men who risk being deported from Australia solely on the basis of membership of the Rebels motorcycle club, according to his barrister Michael Pena-Rees.

    Pena-Rees said the immigration minister, Peter Dutton, was unaware of both Rutene’s distinguished military background and his de facto relationship with an Australian woman when revoking his visa.

    “As soon as there’s an attachment to a [motorcycle] club, you are deemed a national security risk,” Pena-Rees said.

    “The problem we have with the former soldier [is] you can’t be a national security risk if you fought in Afghanistan and were privy to national high security information, you were protecting the prime minister, you were operating sophisticated weaponry.

    “This was such an inept investigation by his staff that Dutton wasn’t even aware this former soldier had a partner in Perth, and was stepfather to her child, when one of the main things you have to consider under the UN charter is the effect on families.”

    Pena-Rees said the former army lance corporal was awarded three medals of honour after serving from 2008 to 2012.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/12/nz-soldier-who-was-pms-bodyguard-faces-deportation-from-australia

    What next being a member of a political party or a football club … guilty until proven innocent?

  381. November 12, 2015 7:38 pm

    the dutton-zombie couldn`t `investigate` if a kiwi was `actually a criminal, it`s a big worry he was once part of bananaland-plod, they need to revisit so-called `successful-convictions` by the dutton-zombie

  382. TB Queensland permalink
    November 12, 2015 7:39 pm

    Yea, but go easy on reb TB, it was early in the morning …

    I always go easy on, sreb … 😉

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    What is it with the ALP and paedophiles?

    left, right or centre they should all be lined up … and the bill sent to their families … including the arseholes who assist them!

    I don’t think its a “political” issue, sb … unless you want to play at being silly bugger!

    A former headmaster at a Brisbane school that employed two paedophiles says he didn’t believe a teacher touching or fondling students’ genitals would be a criminal act.

    Ex-St Paul’s School headmaster Gilbert Case made the admission in 10 minutes of questioning by counsel assisting David Lloyd before the child abuse royal commission adjourned for lunch on Thursday.

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/child-abuse-royal-commission-headmaster-didnt-think-fondling-was-criminal-act-20151112-gkxb1c.html

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That’s what I was thinking but was just too polite to say it.

    Very unusual for a Mexican (being polite that is – the thought bubble proves it) … I could understand a Taswegian having good manners … but Mexicans … nup!

    Just reading above its just a nonsense of typical tory nastiness … again still!

  383. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 12, 2015 8:53 pm

    I don’t think its a “political” issue, sb … unless you want to play at being silly bugger!

    Every convicted child abusing politician has been a member of the ALP

  384. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 13, 2015 2:08 am

  385. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 13, 2015 6:57 am

    Here we go again. I hope this is not normal behaviour.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/unions-royal-commission-sex-toys-lingerie-on-derrick-belan-credit-card/story-fn59noo3-1227606704460?sv=b2540fc9b8a7887a90b499b1515a3a5b

    Sex toys and lingerie were among thousands of dollars in personal items paid for on Derrick Belan’s National Union of Workers NSW credit card, documents before the trade union royal commission show……Statements for the Catchoftheday purchases, which were tendered in evidence, reveal purchases on Mr Belan’s credit card on 29 November 2012 at 8pm costing $144.87 included:

    Seven til Midnight 3 piece Cami set — Red

    Ohhh G! G-Spot & Clitoral Stimulator

    Sqweel 2 Oral Sex Simulator — White

    Ophoria Everyday Collection XL V-RING

    The statements show the union credit card also paid for iPhone accessories, clothes, sunglasses and children’s toys…………He spent $432 at the Buen-Arte tattoo parlour on a depiction of his parents on his calf, evidence released by the Commission reveals.

    He was happy with the result.

  386. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 8:32 am

    I hope this is not normal behaviour.

    Considering the hundred of unions, and the months spent trawling them, do you really believe that?

    Of course, the problem with that is taskforce investigations are done out of the spotlight. They don’t hit the headlines until charges are laid.

    That simply didn’t suit. A kangaroo court smearing your opponents was a much more attractive proposition.

    http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2015/11/09/hopping-kangaroo-court/

    At least it’s not a politically motivated witch hunt?

  387. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 8:38 am

  388. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 8:41 am

  389. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 8:45 am

    A different, but in the end similar, problem happens in relation to the HFC network. While new patches to this old technology will also allow NBN Co to squeeze more capacity out of this network there are physical limits here too. In essence HFC is based on sharing network architecture and with the increase of usage this will soon result in congestion. We see this already on the current networks and, while there will be short-term relief with the new add-on technologies, the underlying problem is the same and is going to haunt the NBN company in a few years.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2015/11/12/technology/squeezing-every-drop-out-nbn-copper

    Well, malcayman WAS given the job of “destroying” the NBN

    Mission Accomplished I think.

  390. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 8:47 am

    So you’d think our nation’s media would notice if a group of major public health organisations held a “crisis meeting” at the National Press Club in Canberra.

    https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/12/while-no-one-pays-attention-turnbull-and-ley-are-gutting-public-health/

    Why the hell would our meeja divertfrom their adulation of malcayman to report the bad things his grubmint is doing?

  391. Walrus permalink
    November 13, 2015 8:53 am

    “…………….purchases on Mr Belan’s credit card on 29 November 2012 at 8pm costing $144.87 included:

    Seven til Midnight 3 piece Cami set — Red

    Ohhh G! G-Spot & Clitoral Stimulator

    Sqweel 2 Oral Sex Simulator — White

    Ophoria Everyday Collection XL V-RING………………..”

    Was he calling from here………………..

    I’ve got it……………..Belan is the one that stole Thommo’s credit card !

  392. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 9:05 am

    case rested 😉

  393. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 13, 2015 9:07 am

    “…………….purchases on Mr Belan’s credit card on 29 November 2012 at 8pm costing $144.87 included:

    You would have thought that by 29/11/2012 Belan would have been a little more careful since everybody had heard about Craig Thomson by then. But i guess he could not control the urge to waste money.

  394. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 13, 2015 9:10 am

    It is in the interests of union members to have unstressed, fulfilled and satisfied officials. These are legitimate expenses for a union leader.

  395. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 13, 2015 9:14 am

    “I don’t think its a “political” issue, sb … unless you want to play at being silly bugger!”

    Silly bugger? Moi? I was just sayin’. That is all.

    “The statements show the union credit card also paid for …. children’s toys”

    Given the side of politics this thieving mongrel comes from I am very concerned about what he used the children’s toys for.

  396. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 13, 2015 9:17 am

    “These are legitimate expenses for a union leader.”

    Just business as usual in Unionland. No surprise then that a former ALP President is in the clink.

  397. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 9:29 am

    I know who’s obsessed with sexual titillation just by reading the comments above! 😉

  398. November 13, 2015 9:30 am

    “Talk about a happy coincidence”

    LOL… 🙂

  399. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 13, 2015 10:21 am

    While No One Pays Attention, Turnbull And Ley Are Gutting Public Health
    https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/12/while-no-one-pays-attention-turnbull-and-ley-are-gutting-public-health/

    …Of course, none of this addresses the most pressing current issue in our health system: the crisis in public health created by the Coalition’s $800 million cuts to the Flexible Funds…

    …Translation? The government wants to allow private health insurers intro primary care.

    In fact, the government’s agenda of privatising the health system is barely disguised. Sussan Ley’s community survey on health insurance even asks consumers whether they would like to see GP visits covered by health insurance. That’s led some to compare the survey to a push poll…

    The survey is at the link below, I told them that I don’t want taxpayers funding any private health services

    Consumer Survey – Now Open
    The value of private health insurance to consumers is a key consideration of these consultations.
    An online survey to give consumers the chance to share their views on private health insurance is now open.

    http://survey.orcinternational.com/orc/j10262/surveylinkn.asp?job=Au3000187&id=RANDOM

  400. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 13, 2015 10:43 am

    A Rise In The GST: A Personal Perspective From A Pensioner On The Firing Line
    https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/11/a-rise-in-the-gst-a-personal-perspective-from-a-pensioner-on-the-firing-line/

    I listened to a discussion on private health insurance on ABC radio and heard talk of the policy drivers being a ‘belief’ that people should pay half of the cost of their health care needs themselves. That for every public $ spent there should be a $ from the individual for no reason other than that’s the thinking behind it. I thought that there is a lot of ideology becoming policy in our public institutions these days and the changes are being made sneakily behind the scenes without our knowledge or consent while mouthing publicly about ‘unsustainable costs’ etc.

    If the government wants price signals, it should stop supporting health insurance
    https://theconversation.com/if-the-government-wants-price-signals-it-should-stop-supporting-health-insurance-38389

  401. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 13, 2015 10:48 am

    From Pickering

  402. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 10:49 am

    The government justifies its austerity programme on the grounds of responsibility: people must take responsibility for their own lives, rather than relying on the state; local authorities must take responsibility for their spending. But, as Cameron’s letter shows, he takes no responsibility for his own policies. Like pain, responsibility is to be applied selectively.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/david-cameron-letter-cuts-oxfordshire

    Abbott said he had used his recent visit to Britain to catch up with Cameron, who was “still savouring his against-the-polls win in this year’s election, assisted by our very own strategist Lynton Crosby”.

    “In Australia, Cameron is mostly portrayed as the conservative who supports gay marriage and takes climate change seriously but his real strength has been successful social and economic reform,” he wrote.

    “So far, his government has transformed education by, in effect, privatising public schools; tackled the culture of welfare by ensuring that people are always better off in work than out of it; and halved the deficit inherited from Labour … Yet his government’s latest measure to rein in spending – reducing tax credits for the low income workers while increasing the minimum wage – has been rejected in the House of Lords. It shows how carefully even politically ascendant conservatives have to tread.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/12/forget-marriage-equality-praise-david-cameron-for-tough-calls-tony-abbott

    Is this the Australia Abbott/Turnbull and the Liberal Party want … ?

    And I note that Abbott sees himself as a tory …

    And its not “the dismantling of the welfare state” … its dismantling OUR society …

    … for Uber Kapitalism …

    We are being produktionised … if we cannot produce anything or don’t spend money we are useless to the New Global Market Economy …

    … that includes the young (less than 14) … the old (older than 45) … the weak, the infirm, the mentally ill, the injured and the sick … and the unemployable …

    Welfare for some … true, but more importantly – a liveable society for all …

    … my relatives from the UK were amazed at our lifestyle, like the free electric BBQs in parks … it really is the simple things in life that we all share and pay for …

    … the chase for the mighty $$ in all things and all decisions, and wanting far more than we need … is turning us into a conglomerate of cold hearted, selfish individuals who pretend to have lots of friends … in the cloud …

    If we truly are a rich country … why don’t we act like one …

    Vacuum Economics suck up the money … and shit on the plebs …

  403. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 13, 2015 11:18 am

    Is this the Australia Abbott/Turnbull and the Liberal Party want … ?

    TB

    The Australia you want is a country that lives off the credit card and stuff the next generation.

  404. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 11:21 am

    KL, thanks for the link to the survey … and fancy giving us the opportunity to comment at the end … couldn’t resist! See below.

    This country should be able to provide high quality health and medical services for everyone no matter their demographic circumstance.

    Ideology and market economy manipulation means that humane decisions are a thing of the past …

    The starting point for good national health outcomes should be based on what we want/expect to achieve as a nation … a sick, unhealthy, uneducated population will never be able to reach its peak productivity, nor in the long run will it survive.

    Ideally we should be able to fund a National Health System for 24,000,000 people …

    Maybe a survey on the following would help?

    Pollies perqs (during and post “service”)

    Negative Gearing

    Trust Funds

    Super Tax Breaks for the Rich

    Multinational Tax Dodgers

  405. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 11:22 am

    The Australia you want is a country that lives off the credit card and stuff the next generation

    You have no idea what I want, Kneel.

    In fact you have no idea …

  406. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 13, 2015 11:28 am

    You have no idea what I want, Kneel.

    In fact you have no idea …

    I have an idea from the party you vote for. The party you vote for always trashes the budget, always increases the debt and always increases unemployment.

  407. November 13, 2015 1:38 pm

    THEY`RE.WORTH.EVERY.PENNY,,,,,,,,,,,Friday the 13th has started with a $30 billion bloodbath on the local sharemarket, which is plunging rapidly towards the 5000-point mark as BHP continues its dramatic sell-off,,,,,,,,,,,

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets-live/markets-live-watch-out-below-20151112-gkxx86.html

    smh,,,,,,,,BHP`s shares fall below $20, losing 15% this week,,,,,,,,

    #YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.BOARDROOMS

  408. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 13, 2015 1:43 pm

    Yeah! The fall in the share ASX is so great for everyone!

  409. November 13, 2015 1:46 pm

    CORPORATE.WILLFULLY.NEGLIGENT.MASS.MURDER,,,,,,,,,,At least six people are dead and more than 20 people are still missing after the disaster, with hundreds of people displaced and 19 cities left without water as the iron-laced sludge from the tailings dam runs downriver. Last Thursday`s disaster saw two dams burst,,,,,,,,,,,

    http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-12/brazil-dam-burst-mine-owners-tour-devastation-as-new-evacuation/6933634

    #CORPORATE.DEEP.THROATERS.WET.DREAM #YAAAAAY.BOARDROOM

  410. November 13, 2015 2:06 pm

    CUT.THE.CORPORATE.GREEN.TAPE,,,,,,,,,,,While not on the same scale, the Brazil mine disaster has already been compared to BP’s Deepwater Horizon oil spill of 2010.

    Brazilian officials are checking the toxicity of the waters and have warned residents who came in contact with the mud to throw out their clothing.

    Biologists warn that the environmental impact may be permanent, devastating local fisheries and farms.,,,,,,,,(#my.abc)

    #LET.BOARDROOMS.DO.WHAT.THEY.WANT.TO .. #YAAAAAAAAAY.BOARDROOM

  411. November 13, 2015 2:15 pm

    WE DEMAND A NUKIE-POWERED RUBBISH TIP

    #YAAAAAAAAAAY.BOARDROOM .. #coming.soon

  412. November 13, 2015 3:14 pm

    WHERE IS MY TEABAG? .. HE SEEMS TO HAVE GONE INTO HIDING

    #YAAAAY.BOARDROOMS

  413. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 13, 2015 3:16 pm

    I’m fired up with you, Boo. You must also have been reading Evo Morales:

    “The capitalist system promotes consumerism, warmongering and commercialism, causing the destruction of Mother Earth and humanity. The capitalist system is a system of death. Hence, capitalism is leading humanity towards a horizon of destruction that sentences nature and life itself to death. In this regard, for a lasting solution to the climate crisis we must destroy capitalism.”

    Time to get rid of evil corporations driven by the greedy profit motive and their ruthless raping of the planet . When we get rid of teh evil corporations the carrying capacity of the planet is about 100 million. Since people are not going to go voluntarily we need to rip the scab off – a revolution to kill off the managerial class and one percenters, outlaw private property and return to year zero. Chomsky was a supporter of the great Pol Pot for good reason and, if we want to save the planet for humanity, the time has come to fully implement his Year Zero project.

    After we get rid of the surplus 7.2 billion planet-rapers and return to simpler times we will be able to enjoy our nasty, brutish and short lives happy in the knowledge that we are living in a society, not surviving in an economy.

  414. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 13, 2015 3:37 pm

    My personal troll has nailed it, yet again.

  415. Walrus permalink
    November 13, 2015 3:42 pm

    “Yeah! The fall in the share ASX is so great for everyone!”

    You bet it is. I never though I’d see BHP again in the teens to $20 range.

    3 years down the track I’ll be laying on a beach in Asia sipping on a beer earning 12% whilst a number of you whingers will be still whingeing about how little your pension/wage goes all because you refused to put away the Federal Visa Card and start repaying the debt via spending cuts to Welfare now……….Yippy

    By the way that supreme fuckwit Stephen Kouk has yet to tweet a link to falling unemployments rates and the lifting of the Carbon Tax……………funny that………………………the FUCKWIT !

  416. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 3:42 pm

    … we will be able to enjoy our nasty, brutish and short lives happy in the knowledge that we are living in a society, not surviving in an economy.

    Well you did quote me … and as usual misrepresent what I say – Wally Tag Team … make shite up and make it someone else’s …

    Democracy and capitalism as a concept and up until recently is/has been fine …

    … but just as socialism (as opposed to communism) and the command system as a concept was fine, until the nasties got hold of it … so has capitalism become das Über Kapitalism … money for money’s sake and fuck everyone else …

    Most folk are happy to be comfortable … the 20% who don’t, want to have more than their share, control other people or determinedly manipulate the world for dominance …

    The 1% already do, The Robber Barons … and organised Judeo-Christian/Muslim religions … none of these “people” or groups are “leaders” they are greedy manipulators who profit from other people’s pain and suffering … hypocrites all and not a true leader amongst them … JC must be getting dizzy spinning on that cross watching all this crumble …

    The rest of us just want to work, rest, learn and enjoy family and friends … and a peaceful life …

    I prefer to live in a society where people care for each other rather than survive in an economy fit only for the walking dead!

  417. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 3:44 pm

    managerial class

    It’s just wrong to have those two terms so close to each other … imo 😉

  418. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 3:50 pm

    … start repaying the debt via spending cuts to Welfare now

    By welfare you mean getting rid of:

    Negative Gearing tax breaks

    Trust Funds

    Pollies perqs during and after employment

    Multinational tax dodging

    Superannuation tax breaks for the rich

    Glad to see you’re on side finally … ’cause those retirees already living off their share portfolios won’t be near as excited as you!

  419. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 3:53 pm

    It’s just wrong to have those two terms so close to each other … imo

    An oxymoron in a class of its own ya reckon, TR?

    By the way I wur one … but I know what you mean … most middle managers I knew (and now know) have no management/business qualifications or a cert IV at best … Peters Principle is alive and kicking …

  420. November 13, 2015 3:58 pm

    “3 years down the track I’ll be laying on a beach in Asia sipping on a beer earning 12% whilst a number of you whingers will be still whingeing about how little your pension/wage goes”…”

  421. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 4:04 pm

    Six Islamic schools have been put on notice they could lose federal government funding after they were accused of breaching the Australian Education Act.

    The education minister, Simon Birmingham, said breach notices had been issued to the Islamic College of Brisbane, the Islamic College of Melbourne, the Islamic College of South Australia, the Islamic School of Canberra, the Langford Islamic College in Western Australian and Malek Fahd Islamic School in Sydney.

    He said the operators of the schools – all affiliated with the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils – would have 28 days to respond to the notices and demonstrate their compliance with financial management and governance requirements.

    Penalties for non-compliance could include the removal of commonwealth funding, the government said on Friday.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/13/government-accuses-six-islamic-schools-breaching-education-act

    Glad to see that happening … I’ll also be glad to see all the christian schools that turned up to the Royal Commission on Child Abuse, investigated after the latest “revelations” …

    A former headmaster at a Brisbane school that employed two paedophiles says he didn’t believe a teacher touching or fondling students’ genitals would be a criminal act.

    Ex-St Paul’s School headmaster Gilbert Case made the admission in 10 minutes of questioning by counsel assisting David Lloyd before the child abuse royal commission adjourned for lunch on Thursday

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/child-abuse-royal-commission-headmaster-didnt-think-fondling-was-criminal-act-20151112-gkxb1c.html

    She quizzed Mr Case about a meeting the former GG said took place in the first half of 2000.

    “The purpose of the meeting was to assess your interest in applying for the position, and it was also to evaluate your conduct at St Paul’s in relation to the sex abuse revelation,” she said.

    “That’s why you were there. You don’t remember it?”

    Mr Case replied: “I do not.”

    Mr Case told the child sex abuse royal commission he thought his role was to pass complaints against serial paedophile Kevin Lynch to the general manager of the diocese, rather than investigate them himself.

    He would then provide any further information requested by the diocese or lawyers, he said in his submission.

    Mr Case said all relevant information would have been referred to Diocese GM Bernard Yorke and “some may also have been sent to Archbishop Peter Hollingworth and/or Dr Peter Coman in the Anglican Schools office”.

    Dr Hollingworth’s barrister Caroline Kirton QC put to him that Dr Hollingworth receiving the information was an assumption but he pointed to emails tendered to the court addressed to the man who would go on to become governor-general.

    “My memory was that at least some of these documents would have been sent to Dr Hollingworth,” he said.

    “There would have been other documents that we might have assumed Mr Yorke would have passed on.”

    A former headmaster at a Brisbane school that employed two paedophiles says he didn’t believe a teacher touching or fondling students’ genitals would be a criminal act.

    Ex-St Paul’s School headmaster Gilbert Case made the admission in 10 minutes of questioning by counsel assisting David Lloyd before the child abuse royal commission adjourned for lunch on Thursday

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/royal-commission-investigating-abuse-claims-not-my-job-principal-20151113-gkygch.html

  422. November 13, 2015 4:04 pm

    DELUSION,,,,,,,,,,,,whingeing about how little your pension/wage goes all because you refused to put away the Federal Visa Card and start repaying the debt via spending cuts to Welfare now,,,,,,,,,,,

    #pretending that low-paids thrown out of work (by-others) need to `starve-to-death` today so that `they` can `save` some govt-system they had no decision or power in is `accounting-lunacy`, especially when those with the power to collect the correct revenue chickened-out and abdicated

  423. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 4:20 pm

    I sent you those holiday snaps of mine in confidence reb.

    But, seeing them again, good times [sigh] 🙂

    btw, is everyone ok with private health insurers asking for a 6-7% profit rise?

    We gave ours up a couple of months ago, and were pretty nervous. Now, we are very glad.

  424. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 4:21 pm

    The Federal Environment Minister Greg Hunt has just spent another $557 million of taxpayer money buying speculative carbon emissions off big polluting companies, as part of the government’s ‘Direct Action’ response to climate change.

    In contrast to the carbon tax, or an emissions trading scheme, the government’s policy is a drag on revenue and not a source of it. So taxpayers are footing the bill when the government enters into contracts with companies that promise to abate their greenhouse gas emissions.

    https://newmatilda.com/2015/11/13/greg-hunt-is-still-lying-about-direct-action/

    It’s kind of race to bottom. Did hunt stuff up his portfolio more than malcayman stuffed his up?

  425. Walrus permalink
    November 13, 2015 4:39 pm

    “btw, is everyone ok with private health insurers asking for a 6-7% profit rise?”

    Yeah fine by me………………I own shares in NIB as part of my balanced portfolio………..dont you ?

    LOL at Reb…………………….give it a few years and that will look like me…………..but greyer

  426. Splatterbottom permalink
    November 13, 2015 4:56 pm

    “the command system as a concept was fine”

    Wrong. The command system will always be inferior to the market as a means of allocating resources.

    Socialism is people lining up for bread. Capitalism is bread lining up for people.

  427. November 13, 2015 5:07 pm

    matilda,,,,,,,,round figures, $1.2 billion of the total $2.55 billion budget has now been spent,,,,,,,,,,

    #so the teabags are going to bonfire 2+half billion of taxpayer hard-earned for pollution that won`t be delivered and nobody wants ,,,,,,,,,,, where is the `accountants` blubbering about the virtues of teh-market, supply and demand ,,,,,,,,,,,, and don`t wave your pom-poms too hard over this, your team opened the door to this fraud against the taxpayer with their carbon-price-not-a-tax-no-its-a-price-oh-okay-its-carbon-tax ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, this is the reason l said from the start of all this wasteful horse-shit that these things won`t work ,,,,,,,, both `teams` have abdicated governing and rolled-over to the corporates ,,,, at `our` expense

  428. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 5:22 pm

    We were with NIB … and were given 800 shares when they went public … we immediately switched to Defence Health …

    Any health insurance company with shareholders will favour them over the sick … and that actually demonstrates my case re society and economy …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    sb, don’t misunderstand, I like capitalism I’m a capitalist … and it is a better system for you and me … but for as millions of peasants who can’t trade the way we do its a start …

    Many people were disenfranchised in the farming community in both Russia and China when they shifted to capitalism … one overnight …

    My bitch is that in both cases the system has been high-jacked by the greedy … the rich, powerful and manipulative …

    I’m as selfish as the next person when it comes to protecting the interests of my immediate family but I do care about others … I’ve been down to one dollar, two kids a mortgage and no job, so while I protect and improve mine … I refuse to do it at the expense of others worse off than me or mine …

    My family have all been taught that to “learn the system and use it to your advantage” … however they have also been taught that we “never make a profit from friends or family” …

    Right now I see an “everyone for themselves” approach … and I think that’s wrong …

  429. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 5:24 pm

    #so the teabags are going to bonfire 2+half billion of taxpayer hard-earned for pollution that won`t be delivered and nobody wants ,,,,,,,,,,, where is the `accountants` blubbering about the virtues of teh-market, supply and demand ,,,,,,,,,,,,

    I’d like to see a Cost Benefit Analysis … the Liberal Party is fond of those as I recall?

  430. Walrus permalink
    November 13, 2015 5:26 pm

    “Any health insurance company with shareholders will favour them over the sick … ”

    Yes..if they screw over their members very subtlety …………….then that’s a very good business model

  431. Walrus permalink
    November 13, 2015 5:33 pm

    From the Chapter called …………………….

    “Sell Your Business to Sucker Punters When You Are Certain it’s Reached Top Valuation”

    http://www.domain.com.au/news/john-mcgrath-to-list-mcgrath-estate-agent-on-the-stock-exchange-with-130-million-float-20151113-gkybl7/

  432. November 13, 2015 5:34 pm

    s,,,,,,,,,,,Socialism is people lining up for bread. Capitalism is bread lining up for people.,,,,,,,,,,

    #seems wrong to me, from my position l see capitalism as a lucky-few hoarding bread by the loaves while most scramble for crumbs. Too bad with so many loaves of bread in the national bakery, that the hungry can`t have a few slices.

  433. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 7:11 pm

    #seems wrong to me, from my position l see capitalism as a lucky-few hoarding bread by the loaves while most scramble for crumbs. Too bad with so many loaves of bread in the national bakery, that the hungry can`t have a few slices.

    Well said, tbagz … we could always “eat cake” I suppose … but look what that led to in France a couple of centuries ago? Now we wouldn’t want that would we? Still the froggies did become a republic …

    Yes..if they screw over their members very subtlety …………….then that’s a very good business model

    It’s the mindset … $$$ … 😦

    Still Louis was ignorant of what happened in the real world too … he lost his mind along with the rest of his head …

  434. November 13, 2015 7:48 pm

    b,,,,,,,,,screw over their members very subtlety,,,,,,,

    #we can only hope that your `insurance` has moved the goal-posts and deny your claim in your/wife time of illness and duress so that `you` can experience some of that `subtlety` you cheer for

  435. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 10:38 pm

    Good luck with this. Cold day in Hell?

  436. Tom R permalink
    November 13, 2015 10:42 pm

    It’s money well spent, isn’t it. And it only took them almost two years to work out what should have been obvious from the start.

    Unless of course you were only in it for the smear, that is

  437. TB Queensland permalink
    November 13, 2015 10:49 pm

    Will we have a Royal Commission on Royal Commissions I wonder?

  438. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 13, 2015 10:50 pm

    CFMEU

    OI! OI! OI!

  439. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 13, 2015 11:56 pm

    socialism is people sharing bread, capitalism is people starving while bread is locked up and going mouldy.

    socialism is everyone growing wheat and making bread together, capitalism is barren land where nothing can grow and poisoned water supplies.

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/d260bd1d7058eb26374d01f824fd8180e6daa3d2/0_0_2400_4207/1141.jpg?w=1920&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=4fceafaba17125f71cce082cfe040089

  440. TB Queensland permalink
    November 14, 2015 8:47 am

    Small victory in the scheme of things but a major tactical blow to ISIL/ISIS/Daesh! Finally!

    This could be the beginning of the end … long struggle ahead methinks …

    Well done the Peshmerga!

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/13/tyranny-has-gone-kurds-and-yazidis-celebrate-recapture-of-sinjar-from-isis

  441. November 14, 2015 9:35 am

    tb,,,,,,,major tactical blow to ISIL/ISIS/Daesh! Finally!,,,,,,

    #counting pre-hatched chickens ,,, turn-on ya`telly ,,, seems the death-cult miss their global brand ambassador and don`t want mistaken as irrelevant as accountants ,,, paris under multiple attacks ,,, hostages taken ,,, unconfirmed 40-dead being reported

  442. Blowback-By-Blowback permalink
    November 14, 2015 10:20 am

    “France is reportedly deploying its largest warship in Syria region to continue its fight against the Islamic State (Isis) militants – two months after it joined the US-led coalition bombing missions in the region….France carried out its first airstrike against Isis in September, in what the country claimed was an act of “self-defence” to stop the radical Islamist militant group from carrying out more attacks on its soil.”

  443. TB Queensland permalink
    November 14, 2015 11:50 am

    … counting pre-hatched chickens …

    … small victory … long struggle ahead methinks …

    Comprehension? Don’t start doing a Wally on me and put/add your words and meanings to my comments …

    Ta 😉

  444. November 14, 2015 1:06 pm

    blowback,,,,,,,,,,,,France carried out its first airstrike against Isis in September, in what the country claimed was an act of `self-defence` to stop the radical Islamist militant group from carrying out more attacks on its soil,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #and a fine job they`re doing too

    my.abc24/bbc,,,,,,,,140 dead,,,,,

    #l wonder how long it will be before the `brand-ambassador` appears to chant death-cult, death-cult, death-cult, #yaaay.mr-rabbit

  445. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 14, 2015 4:43 pm

  446. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 14, 2015 5:13 pm

  447. TB Queensland permalink
    November 14, 2015 7:10 pm

    These are the people that give us the news,
    Take a closer look at the “French flag”

    The Nederlands will not be amused!

    Modern “journalism” is ill-informed its frightening …

  448. November 14, 2015 7:23 pm

    lt is interesting to see the faces of the (so-called) leaders as they trot out to make the standard condolence/motherhood statements for paris. l noticed talkbull looked pretty worried and annoyed, the disaster is clearly getting in the way of `teabag-business-as-usual`. l also noticed plib looks `shit-scared`, probably assuming (mistakenly) when she is deputy-prez she will have to deal with similar disasters. Joolee didn`t seem worried at all.

  449. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 15, 2015 12:26 am

  450. TB Queensland permalink
    November 15, 2015 9:06 am

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

    In London, Choudary and his students provided detailed descriptions of how the Islamic State must conduct its foreign policy, now that it is a caliphate. It has already taken up what Islamic law refers to as “offensive jihad,” the forcible expansion into countries that are ruled by non-Muslims. “Hitherto, we were just defending ourselves,” Choudary said; without a caliphate, offensive jihad is an inapplicable concept. But the waging of war to expand the caliphate is an essential duty of the caliph.

    Choudary took pains to present the laws of war under which the Islamic State operates as policies of mercy rather than of brutality. He told me the state has an obligation to terrorize its enemies—a holy order to scare the shit out of them with beheadings and crucifixions and enslavement of women and children, because doing so hastens victory and avoids prolonged conflict.

    Choudary’s colleague Abu Baraa explained that Islamic law permits only temporary peace treaties, lasting no longer than a decade. Similarly, accepting any border is anathema, as stated by the Prophet and echoed in the Islamic State’s propaganda videos. If the caliph consents to a longer-term peace or permanent border, he will be in error. Temporary peace treaties are renewable, but may not be applied to all enemies at once: the caliph must wage jihad at least once a year. He may not rest, or he will fall into a state of sin.

    One comparison to the Islamic State is the Khmer Rouge, which killed about a third of the population of Cambodia. But the Khmer Rouge occupied Cambodia’s seat at the United Nations. “This is not permitted,” Abu Baraa said. “To send an ambassador to the UN is to recognize an authority other than God’s.” This form of diplomacy is shirk, or polytheism, he argued, and would be immediate cause to hereticize and replace Baghdadi. Even to hasten the arrival of a caliphate by democratic means—for example by voting for political candidates who favor a caliphate—is shirk.

    It’s hard to overstate how hamstrung the Islamic State will be by its radicalism. The modern international system, born of the 1648 Peace of Westphalia, relies on each state’s willingness to recognize borders, however grudgingly. For the Islamic State, that recognition is ideological suicide. Other Islamist groups, such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas, have succumbed to the blandishments of democracy and the potential for an invitation to the community of nations, complete with a UN seat. Negotiation and accommodation have worked, at times, for the Taliban as well. (Under Taliban rule, Afghanistan exchanged ambassadors with Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the United Arab Emirates, an act that invalidated the Taliban’s authority in the Islamic State’s eyes.) To the Islamic State these are not options, but acts of apostasy.

    As, sb, pointed out many months ago … the answer in its defeat lies in the Islamic obsession with Dabiq and the End of Days …

  451. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 15, 2015 10:04 am

    Good for you – with the French flag TB

  452. November 15, 2015 10:08 am

    these `tewwa-X-spurts` and talking-heads are mainly full of crap with intellectual-sounding gobble-de-gook that ignores the `basic-human-reaction` of they`re hitting us, so we`ll hit them

    #after 911newyork, the french-govt of the time applied the wisdom they possessed, knowing they had around 20% of the population was islamic, and/or had roots in middle-east or north-africa colonies, and refused to jump head-first into the oil-war-teabags quicksand led by teh-usa

    #when the sarcozie-teabag became prez, he decided he should wet his beak in oil-war profits and pushed france head-first into the oil-war quicksand, after-all, the sarcozie-teabag knows he is `smarter` than the rest because he is wetting his pecker in italian super models, so of course he can wet his beak in oil-war profit

    #so with all the drone-bombs being dropped on the death-cult-teabags, what does the paris `hit-backs` equate to, one drone-bomb? maybe two? but look how unhinged the oil-war-teabags become when only a fraction of `non-combatants` are killed by the death-cult-teabags, too bad the oil-war-teabags don`t apply the same concern for the `non-combatants` they murder too

  453. TB Queensland permalink
    November 15, 2015 11:44 am

    … these `tewwa-X-spurts` and talking-heads are mainly full of crap with intellectual-sounding gobble-de-gook … etc … etc

    Well thanks for your non-X-spurt analysis and personal gobbledygook, tbagz, quite insightful in a peasant sort of way …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    Merci, ToM …

  454. November 15, 2015 3:05 pm

    fix ya`bullshit detector,

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,One comparison to the Islamic State is the Khmer Rouge, which killed about a third of the population of Cambodia,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #when doing a `proper` comparison, you don`t `omit` data

    #so when you include khmer killed 30%, should also include teh-usa killed X-% in cambodia, one sided, dishonest comparison/data, also omits khmer probably wouldn`t have existed had teh-usa not been bombing them during VN

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,Even to hasten the arrival of a caliphate by democratic means—for example by voting for political candidates who favor a caliphate—is shirk.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #shirk? democratic? voting? #bias clown peddling the usual teabag-line, arrogant too

  455. November 15, 2015 4:30 pm

    tb,,,,,,non-X-spurt,,,,,, + ,,,,,,,peasant,,,,,,#correct

    #don`t you find it disturbing that these so-called world leaders keep drilling us all deeper into the quicksand, throwing onto the bonfire of waste, `collateral`lives, military lives and endless-cash?

    #l find it quite disturbing, considering most of these so-called world leaders have come from much greater privilege than this ,,,,peasant,,,, from the near-bottom of the economy could probably even imagine.

    #l don`t mind the ,,,,non-x-spurt,,,, thing tho, they`ve been following so-called X-spurts, and look where they ended-up, deep in the quicksand.

  456. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 15, 2015 6:01 pm

    …Sanders attacked Clinton for her vote to authorize the war in Iraq, which he called the worst foreign policy blunder of his lifetime.

    “I would argue that the disastrous invasion of Iraq, something I strongly opposed, has unravelled the region completely and led to the rise of al Qaeda and ISIS,” Sanders said. “I don’t think any sensible person would disagree that the invasion of Iraq led to the massive level of instability we’re seeing right now.”..

    http://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Capitalism-Making-Killing-Catastrophe/dp/1784781150/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447567475&sr=8-1&keywords=Disaster+Capitalism%3A+Making+a+Killing+out+of+Catastrophe

  457. November 15, 2015 7:26 pm

    amazon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Crisis? What crisis? .. .. How powerful corporations make a killing out of disaster .. .. Award-winning journalist Antony Loewenstein travels across the US, Britain, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Haiti, Papua New Guinea and Australia to witness the reality of Disaster Capitalism—the hidden world of privatized detention centers and militarized private security, formed to protect corporations as they profit from war zones. He visits Britain`s immigration detention centers, tours the prison system in the United States, and digs into the underbelly of the companies making a fortune from them. Loewenstein reveals the dark history of how large multinational corporations have become more powerful than governments, supported by media and political elites.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #that`s a pretty good blurb on the amazon link armchair

  458. November 15, 2015 7:44 pm

    it got funnier further down too,

    huffpo,,,,,,,,,,,,Perhaps ironically, the candidates all seemed to agree in broad terms on what needed to be done to address ISIS now:

    more aggressive U.S. posturing (#guffaw)

    and, more significantly, geopolitical pressure on regional actors to tamp down the threat. As Sanders summarized, Middle East countries need to

    “get their hands dirty, their boots on the ground.”,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #more of the same, teh-usa trying to pass the buck on the mess THEY made

  459. TB Queensland permalink
    November 15, 2015 9:18 pm

    … don`t you find it disturbing that these so-called world leaders keep drilling us all deeper into the quicksand …

    You do read my comments, tbagz … don’t you?

    Iraq was a war of lies and deceit … pretty much the same as VN …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Sanders attacked Clinton for her vote to authorize the war in Iraq, which he called the worst foreign policy blunder of his lifetime.

    And what about VN! What a fkn moron … not the worst just another US foreign policy blunder …

    Footnote: I saw Uncle Ho last year in his mausoleum … got chipped by one of the guards too … talking too loudly … he won The American War and is revered as the countries saviour (and rightly too if you were Vietnamese) …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    #that`s a pretty good blurb on the amazon link armchair

    And matches pretty much what KL and I have been saying for a decade, tbagz!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    As Sanders summarized, Middle East countries need to

    “get their hands dirty, their boots on the ground.”,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #more of the same, teh-usa trying to pass the buck on the mess THEY made

    So what would you have the USA do … put troops on the ground? Wasn’t that the problem you said, in the first case?

    You don’t think that Muslim countries in the region should put boots on the ground …

    You should read the link I put up earlier from The Atlantic … Shiite v Sunni civil war with a taunt to wipe out the Christian West on the plains of Daqib …

    Why give them what they want? Dead and bleeding Western nation soldiers!

  460. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 16, 2015 10:05 am

    The race card: Australia’s long and surprising history of playing racial politics

    …This history is worth recounting as a reminder that the race card began with Labor, before it was appropriated by Howard and Abbott…

    …Calwell’s race card had no effect at the ballot box, in part because Menzies had a more powerful scare campaign to run against Labor: communism. To be blunt, Menzies was the more nuanced bigot, transferring the nation’s fear of foreign takeover to Red China, while quietly opening the door to a small number of Asian migrants. (Menzies still clung to the White Australia policy until his retirement in 1966, risking the very international censure that he had wished to avoid a decade and a half earlier.)

  461. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 16, 2015 10:24 am

    …This history is worth recounting as a reminder that the race card began with Labor, before it was appropriated by Howard and Abbott…

    The race card may have started with Labor but what has wanting an orderly refugee program got to do with race and the stand of Howard and Abbott?

    Under Howard we took our refugees from UNHCR camps and i doubt the racial mix would be different to those coming by boats. The big difference is that people who arrive by boat have payed money to jump the queue.

  462. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 16, 2015 12:01 pm

    The race card may have started with Labor but what has wanting an orderly refugee program got to do with race and the stand of Howard and Abbott?

    The real question is why don’t you read the article and find out what it’s about before rushing in with your AS crap? It’s about racism in australian politics not boat people.

    The big difference is that people who arrive by boat have payed money to jump the queue.

    What about the many more people who come by [more expensive] plane journey and then claim asylum once here – nothing is said about them, but aren’t they jumping the same mythical ‘queue’?

  463. November 16, 2015 12:35 pm

    tb,,,,,,,,,You should read the link I put up earlier from The Atlantic,,,,,,

    #l did .. #it`s a partial/half-story

    atlantic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,confidential comments by Major General Michael K. Nagata, the Special Operations commander for the United States in the Middle East,,,,,,,,,,

    #aka.team.wrong.decisions

    teh-general,,,,,,,,,,,,admitting that he had hardly begun figuring out the Islamic State`s appeal. `We have not defeated the idea,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #with some self-awarenes

    atlantic,,,,,,,,,,grainy mug shot from a stay in U.S. captivity at Camp Bucca during the occupation of Iraq,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    #then reverts to form, omits `bucca` prisoners were tortured, then abandoned by teh-usa with no-way to get home, and left at the mercy and non-choice of joining the death-cult or else. Most bucca prisoners, like delta/gitmo were not tewwawists `before` they were `sold` to teh-usa by `al-quada` and/or associates, other criminals.

  464. November 16, 2015 12:40 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  465. armchair opinionator permalink
    November 16, 2015 1:13 pm

    Meanwhile, someone is leaving these around Ikea #auspol

    Good. A competitor? Harvey Norman? There’s quite a few others they could target too.

    JOKER  IN  THE  PACK
    https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2015/november/1446296400/anne-manne/joker-pack

    …These interpersonal skills in handling conflict are part of why Dastyari thinks Xenophon is such “an absolute force”. They may also be the kind of political skills you need in the modern era. Dastyari points to the steady decline in the major party vote. “The crossbenchers are not an abnormality,” he says. “The reality is, this is the new normal. The crossbench is here to stay. This is what the future of politics is going to be like.”

    He may well be right. The past eight years have seen one minority government and five prime ministers. The instability comes from tensions, enforced silences in our national conversation, where the major parties have reached a tight exclusionary consensus on neoliberalism. Issues that have been excluded have started to matter politically…

  466. TB Queensland permalink
    November 16, 2015 1:35 pm

    Chuckle …

    This article is locked.

    All articles from the current issue are available exclusively to subscribers.

    You can read it now with a subscription to the Monthly. Subscriptions start from $44.95.

    Does that include GST? 🙂

  467. November 16, 2015 5:53 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  468. TB Queensland permalink
    November 16, 2015 6:36 pm

    Oh, Pauline, I giggle every time I have fish and chips …

    I would check the plane every time you get in tho’ … Ashby has a habit of crash and burn!

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