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Ministers “dropping like flies” around Malcolm Turnbull

February 10, 2016

malcolm-turnbull.jpg

Andrew Robb and Warren Truss are the latest to join the conga line of Ministers who have either been dumped by Malcolm Turnbull or leaving the LNP to “spend more time with their families.”

They join the illustrious company of:

Tony Abbott

Eric Abetz

Kevin Andrews

Bob Baldwin

Bruce Bilson

Jamie Briggs

Mal Brough

Joe Hockey

David Johnston

Ian McFarlane

Michael Ronaldson

Stuart Robert appears likely to be next.

 

 

 

 

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414 Comments leave one →
  1. February 10, 2016 4:58 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  2. Tom R permalink
    February 10, 2016 6:29 pm

    And the abc have selected this fuckwit for an Indigenous show ffs. They are lost.

  3. Tom R permalink
    February 10, 2016 6:32 pm

    It certainly says a lot about malcaymans priorities when selecting ministers, doesn’t it.

    So, when does malbro get to come back? That’s gone as quiet as the Nick Ross story has. I guess we need to wait until yabot decides the media can go after it until we see anything.

  4. TB Queensland permalink
    February 10, 2016 9:39 pm

    The trade minister, Andrew Robb, has decided to retire from politics, adding another dimension to Malcolm Turnbull’s forthcoming ministerial reshuffle.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/10/trade-minister-andrew-robb-to-retire-from-politics-as-truss-considers-future

    They all seem to leave a bungled mess behind for US …

    Well at least the Liberals are getting rid of the Dickwits©!

    That means only the Fuckwits® are left … no, right … but left … sort of …

  5. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 11, 2016 12:44 am

    Barnaby Joyce will be very happy to see Truss go, he’s been sweating on the nats leadership for a while now. Barnaby joyce as deputy PM of this country, think about it!

  6. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2016 8:39 am

    Barnaby joyce as deputy PM of this country, think about it!

    We’ve had yabot as pm foer chriss sake. I think we are pretty much punch drunk by now 😉

    And, it looks like yabot wants back in as badly as kev07 did. And, he’s not doing a bad kev07 job of it either, if I may say so.

  7. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2016 9:02 am

  8. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2016 9:33 am

    Nothing’s changed … nothing’s new …

  9. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2016 9:34 am

    lol

  10. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2016 9:45 am

    Nothing’s changed … nothing’s new …

    Funny you should word it that way TB

    Nothing will change after the Stuart Robert furore dies down. It never does

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/11/nothing-will-change-after-the-stuart-robert-furore-dies-down-it-never-does?CMP=share_btn_tw

  11. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2016 11:47 am

    Nothing changes. ashbygate ……. silence Nick Ross ………… silence

  12. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2016 12:29 pm

    When this government stops throwing money around – on itself – then they may have some credibility that we have a budget crisis …

    Until then leave the bottom 50% of the economy/society alone when it comes to “spending cute” …

    Fkn arrogant hypocrites!

    Costs of Doha DFAT post under fire

    The foreign affairs department has defended spending $7.36 million fitting out leased office space for only 15 staff in Qatar.

    Labor senator Alex Gallacher told an estimates hearing on Thursday the cost – at $10,000 a square metre – was double the most expensive fit-out ever approved by parliament’s public works committee.

    The department said there was a high-cost environment in Doha where the practice of landlords was to lease whole floors.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/costs-of-doha-dfat-post-under-fire/news-story/191d5ba1d922f52954172bff83955ada

  13. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2016 12:30 pm

    cuts … oops …

  14. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2016 2:06 pm

    “But I suppose if a distributor who was local wanted to have a try, then they presumably wouldn’t face the same difficulty with security. You might get a different outcome.”

    Now why would that be I wonder … with privacy laws and only law enforcement able to access IP addresses?

    Who owns the government again …

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/piracy/dallas-buyers-club-war-with-iinet-downloaders-finally-comes-to-an-end/news-story/a51ba7091b090be07a559a3cab8ad7f1

    Oh, and BTW …

    http://images.repzio.com/productimages/67/ab-1a-br_lg.jpg?width=1650&maxheight=1050

  15. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2016 2:13 pm

  16. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2016 3:44 pm

  17. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2016 3:44 pm

    Trade union royal commissioner Dyson Heydon eased restrictions on access to a confidential report to allow the Coalition to show its contents to the Senate crossbenchers.

    Documents show Mr Heydon varied a non-publication order he issued in relation to a secret volume of his 2014 interim report to enable the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet to provide “supervised access”.

    Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/politics/dyson-heydon-lifted-restrictions-on-secret-report-20160210-gmr083#ixzz3zpc1vIEx
    Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook

  18. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2016 3:52 pm

  19. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 12, 2016 8:59 am

  20. Tom R permalink
    February 12, 2016 10:05 am

    Wow, that’s a turn up for the books ao, petamartin, who not so long ago was lambasting Labor for running a GST “scare campaign”, now starts one of his own.

    Our media is just a fucken joke!

  21. February 12, 2016 11:14 am

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  22. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2016 11:47 am

    Malcolm Turnbull is John Howards biggest mistake.

  23. February 12, 2016 12:02 pm

    What, you mean he’s Howard’s secret love child?

  24. February 12, 2016 12:06 pm

    Tensions emerge between Malcolm Turnbull and Scott Morrison as PM prepares to sack Stuart Robert

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tensions-emerge-between-malcolm-turnbull-and-scott-morrison-as-pm-prepares-to-sack-stuart-robert-20160212-gmsan5.html#ixzz3zuZSFQmo

  25. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2016 12:06 pm

    Well no. But i guess Howard was deceived by Turnbulls ability. And Turnbull does have talent. I think he would have made a good Treasurer. But Malcolm is not a leader. He would make a perfect leader of the ALP. Smart, sexy, intelligent but puts himself above the interests of Australia.

  26. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 12:22 pm

    The most shocking thing in the Treasury analysis delivered to Scott Morrison on January 25 isn’t the finding that a cut in income tax funded by a lift in the goods and services tax wouldn’t boost the economy at all.

    Morrison had asked the treasury to model a change that enriched middle and high earners at the expense of the least-well off.

    It’s what Morrison asked the Treasury to model …

    … He asked it to model a lift in GST from 10 to 15 per cent and then the handing back of every possible cent in income tax cuts. Because boosting the GST automatically results in extra spending on benefits such as Newstart, family allowances and pensions as prices climb it isn’t possible to give all of it back.

    But it is possible to hand back $30 billion of the $35 billion as tax cuts, and that’s what Morrison asked the Treasury to model in the first instance, not legislated increases in benefits of the kind delivered by his predecessor Peter Costello when introducing the GST.

    The impact is horrific.

    High earning households do very well. In the top fifth, 81 per cent are better off. In the fifth below that, 80 per cent are better off.

    In the bottom fifth, only 9 per cent are better off. Put another way, the change makes 91 per cent of the lowest-earning households worse off.

    It makes 79 per cent of the next lowest earning households worse off, and 60 per cent of middle earning households better off.

    Morrison had asked the Treasury to model a change that enriched middle and high earners at the expense of the least-well off.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/scott-morrisons-tax-change-would-have-taken-from-the-poor-and-given-to-the-rich-20160211-gmrnc7.html

    Lets talk about:

    ► Multi-national Tax

    ► Negative Gearing

    ► Trust Funds

    ► Super Tax for Rich

    ► Pollie’s Perqs

    ► Ex-Pollies Perqs

    Then we’ll talk about:

    ► A 15% GST!

    Tax The Toffs!

  27. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 12:24 pm

    Can’t access my Telstra email account … who said it was fixed?

  28. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 12:26 pm

    In business we’d call Morrison a Toe Cutter! (Among other things)

    Leopards and spots !

  29. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2016 12:27 pm

    Tax The Toffs!

    We had NO problems until you voted for Rudd in 2007.

    Rather than giving your ignorant advice you should be repenting and admit most of our problems are your responsibility.

    Costellos last budget was a $20B surplus. Swans first budget was a $20B deficit. A $40B turnaround.

    All because YOU voted for Rudd in 2007.

  30. Tom R permalink
    February 12, 2016 12:50 pm

    the change makes 91 per cent of the lowest-earning households worse off.

    It makes 79 per cent of the next lowest earning households worse off

    So now even Treasury is running a GST “Scare Campaign” too?

    ROFL

    The best joke I heard from yesterday was pyne claiming Labors GST “Scare Campaign” had fallen flat, because they (the libs) were no longer going to introduce one (again)

    OK, it wasn’t a joke, it was what he actually said, but, the best satire is that which you cannot tell is satire.

    Like this one 😉

  31. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2016 1:00 pm

    TOMR

    Same goes for you. We had NO problems until you voted for Rudd in 2007.

    About time you like TB should start repenting. But you are too proud to admit you are an immoral piece of shit who locked up 8,000 kids because of your moral vanity

  32. Tom R permalink
    February 12, 2016 1:37 pm

    Looks like ANOTHER Labor “scare Campaign has failed

  33. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2016 1:41 pm

    Looks like ANOTHER Labor “scare Campaign has failed

    Says the man who locked up 8,000 kids.

  34. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 1:43 pm

    Another one bites the dust…

    What pisses me off is that it takes so long … he broke the rules – out!

    In the real world its minutes or a couple of hours to investigate something so bleedin’ obvious …

    BTW what does repent mean?

  35. Walrus permalink
    February 12, 2016 1:49 pm

    “Another one bites the dust…”

    Oh well shit happens……………….At least its not like a certain PM who continued to support a backbencher and refused to eject him to the cross benches over allegations he fraudulently used money to pay for time with certain delightful ladies (I’m sure ) here………..

    http://www.tiffanysgirls.com.au/tiffanys-room-details.aspx?print=18

  36. Walrus permalink
    February 12, 2016 1:56 pm

    Oooops…….

  37. Tom R permalink
    February 12, 2016 1:58 pm

    Can you imagine if this was a hung Parliament

    How delightful would that be

  38. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2016 1:59 pm

    What pisses me off is that it takes so long … he broke the rules – out!

    We may not have parliament if that is taken to its logical conclusion. Rudd earned $130,000 in his first 3 years in Parliament from his consultancy business.

    If Robert did wrong he should resign but if he was helping an Australian company get business, what is the problem?

    Furthermore i find it hard listening to a human like TB who locked up 8,000 kids giving lectures on morality.

  39. Tom R permalink
    February 12, 2016 2:02 pm

    They’re one step ahead wally

    https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/irosary-catholic-rosary/id301340979?mt=8

    If only malcayman weren’t so busy stashin’ his cash, he’d be up on it too

    https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/express-plus-medicare/id648134521?mt=8

  40. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 12, 2016 2:03 pm

    So Tom R, you think that Marco is not a lefty climate change advocate? Like the idiot leftist who was outed masquerading as a sceptic on Q&A. It is an old tactic of leftist imbeciles.

  41. Tom R permalink
    February 12, 2016 2:23 pm

    you think that Marco is not a lefty climate change advocate?

    It all depends

    Who’s marco ……….. polo?

  42. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 2:30 pm

    It is an old tactic of leftist imbeciles.

    Thank goodness there’s none on TGT … not so sure about rightist imbeciles tho’ … 😉

  43. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 2:32 pm

    Repentance isn’t that something catliks avoid?

    Or play at in the confessional telephone box … so they can do the same next week?

  44. February 12, 2016 2:39 pm

    “Thank goodness there’s none on TGT …”

    Depends on the operative word.

    (I think you mean there are none.)

  45. February 12, 2016 2:44 pm

    “Repentance isn’t that something catliks avoid?”

    You are such a self-absorbed fuckwit, you don’t even recognise your own bigotry.

  46. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 12, 2016 2:48 pm

    “rightist imbeciles tho’ “

    Are you calling Kneel a rightist?

  47. February 12, 2016 2:49 pm

    Denouncing people who believe in a sky fairy isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty.

  48. February 12, 2016 2:51 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  49. February 12, 2016 3:07 pm

    “Denouncing people who believe in a sky fairy isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty.”

    Says someone who, only a few years ago, would been the victim of the same kind of bigotry. Insert any other group in place of “who believe in a sky fairy” and you might get it. On the other hand, probably not, Catholics are a legitimate hate-group in Social Justice Warrior world.

  50. February 12, 2016 3:14 pm

    “”Says someone who, only a few years ago, would been the victim of the same kind of bigotry. “”

    Not quite.

    Religious belief is a choice.

    Sexual orientation is not.

    Even you should comprehend that.

  51. February 12, 2016 3:18 pm

    That’s not quite right, either, But so what?. Why is bigotry okay when someone chooses a certain path with which you disagree?

  52. February 12, 2016 3:21 pm

    “”That’s not quite right, either.””

    Really, which part?

  53. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2016 3:36 pm

    I suppose there are people who have a genetic predisposition to religious beliefs.

  54. February 12, 2016 3:38 pm

    what, like stupidity…?

  55. February 12, 2016 3:43 pm

    “I suppose there are people who have a genetic predisposition to religious beliefs.”

    Probably not..But so what? Why are they cannon fodder for bigots like TB and reb?

  56. Walrus permalink
    February 12, 2016 4:01 pm

    Dont worry about it ToSY. TB being from Yorkshire has bigotry in his DNA. And its not just the RCs they are taught to hate.

    Others cop it too………………….

    Is it any wonder he still reads Mein Kampf

    http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/yorkshire-among-worst-regions-as-anti-semitic-attacks-increase-1-2560675

  57. Walrus permalink
    February 12, 2016 4:03 pm

    I repent quite a bit.

    But that’s because I like to sin a lot

  58. Tom R permalink
    February 12, 2016 4:14 pm

    I like to sin a lot

    METOO!

    I just don’t feel the need to apologise to a figment for it

  59. February 12, 2016 4:23 pm

    Like I said the other day, it’s always amusing when the bigots accuse others of being bigots when they’re own inherent bigotry is pointed out to them…

    Maybe you’ll feel more at home over a Bolt’s bog.

  60. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 4:41 pm

    Was it something I said … chuckle!

    Whew!

    Some strange “arguments”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Are you calling Kneel a rightist?

    Tut … Tut, sb … 🙂

  61. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2016 4:45 pm

    Are you calling Kneel a rightist?

    I am not sure what i am but only the ALP would lock up 8,000 kids.

  62. Tom R permalink
    February 12, 2016 4:56 pm

    Maybe you’ll feel more at home over a Bolt’s bog.

    How do we know if he does or doesn’t already

  63. Tom R permalink
    February 12, 2016 4:59 pm

    heydons secret not so secret lol

    “When I was finally allowed to read the secret volumes of the Heydon Royal Commission, I expected to find, as commissioner Heydon wrote: grave threats to the power and authority of the Australian State.

    The only grave threat I found was to the credibility of the Liberal government,” said Senator Lambie.

    http://senatorlambie.com.au/2016/02/heydon-royal-commission-secret-volumes-no-threat-to-the-power-and-authority-of-the-australian-state-lambie/

  64. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 5:12 pm

    Interesting read, TR … Ms Lamb even sounds quite articulate and sensible … (a touch of Mr Xylophone perhaps?)

    If there was any rightist imbeciles here, they may struggle with the reasonable argument that, Heydon, has always been a simple Liberal Party Puppet … and TurnAbbout et al wasted ANOTHER $80 million of taxpayers money … (those of us who do actually pay tax that is)

  65. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2016 6:00 pm

    Yep, stupidity is genetic, so are various physical, mental and emotional ailments.

    Why isn’t a predisposition for religion?

    Either that or it is a cultural quirk. And it’s fine to ridicule culture?

  66. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 12, 2016 6:03 pm

  67. February 12, 2016 6:11 pm

    “Like I said the other day, it’s always amusing when the bigots accuse others of being bigots when they’re own inherent bigotry is pointed out to them. Maybe you’ll feel more at home over a Bolt’s bog.”

    That’s just name-calling Those I accuse of bigotry have left their trail of hate on the internet for all to see.

  68. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2016 6:11 pm

    If there was any rightist imbeciles here

    I know you are talking about me but you are going nowhere when you talk about a waste of $80M when your vote in 2007 cost Australia $15-20B. And that is on just one policy change.

    You can add to that pink batts, $900 cheques, billions of dollars to Holden/Ford/Toyota and they left anyway. Billions of dollars spent building desal plants that have never been used and most probably never will be.

  69. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 6:39 pm

    Those I accuse of bigotry have left their trail of hate on the internet for all to see.

    And should be thoroughly taken to task!

    Not being a bigot myself … although often being accused by the those who cannot see around the cross of childhood brainwashing …

    If you really read the content of my comments over many years I favour calling out the hypocrisy of believers’ actions compared to their belief and words in organised religion (by men I might add) for the sole (soul?) purpose of control, power and greed …

    Unfortunately there a so many examples of manipulation and failure that I understand the frustration of their members … but is that a reason to stop highlighting hypocrisy … ?

    Show me a comment that is untrue … or hypocritical, over the last decade …

    If I was “shown” the “way” … I wouldn’t need organised religion and all its trappings … it would be personal between me and whichever deity showed me proof …

    I’m comfortable with my moral foundation … and my place in heaven … I’m here already …

    ++++++++++++++++

    I know you are talking about me

    No You don’t … you know nuthin’, Kneel of Sydney!

    Series Six soon!

  70. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2016 6:49 pm

    I don’t really go for stuff like –
    *Muslims do this..
    Jews think…
    *Catholics/Catlicks are…

  71. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2016 6:52 pm

    On the other hand, I think the actions of Pell and many others deserve plenty of scrutiny and criticism.

    So do the actions of ISIS and the policies of Israel.

    TB generally doesn’t distinguish between the the actions of Pell (for example) and “Catlicks” with genuinely held belief.

  72. February 12, 2016 6:54 pm

    “Show me a comment that is untrue … or hypocritical, over the last decade ”

    Too easy. Your categorisation of “Catlicks”.

  73. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2016 7:01 pm

    Show me a comment that is untrue …

    Well i cannot show a comment because the old blog is dead. But i remember you said AWB was trading with the enemy while the war was going on.

    All companies trading with IRAQ under the Oil for Food program were stopped before the war was started.

  74. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 7:31 pm

    Too easy. Your categorisation of “Catlicks”.

    catliks … no auto cap … Catholics … auto cap …

    do you prefer micks …

    You want an example of bigotry try this … Dont worry about it ToSY. TB being from Yorkshire has bigotry in his DNA. And its not just the RCs they are taught to hate.

    I don’t hate anyone … sure I was whelped in Yorkshire … but I’m a parochial Queenslander (as others know and tell me all the time) … I’m a proud Australian …

    And for everyone’s edification Yorkshire has ’em all catlike, cofe, muslims, Methodists, Weslyians, the list goes on … my Grandad (cofe BTW) used to take me on Whitsunday to follow the village brass bands – 4,000 pop. 10 brass bands! 8 from churches!

    But! When I was nine and said I didn’t “get it” it was like science fiction … wow … it did not not stop until after I was married … parents insisted on a church wedding … my future mother-in-law “had” to inform me that her daughter “wasn’t baptized you know” …

    Don’t think you know bigotry … you’ve never experienced it!

    And in fact, sreb, was very gentle with this “”Says someone who, only a few years ago, would been the victim of the same kind of bigotry. “”

    Are you a “victim” now … of what? Me using the word “catlick”?

    Your cracking up … to protect what?

    TB generally doesn’t distinguish between the the actions of Pell (for example) and “Catlicks” with genuinely held belief.

    Indeed …

  75. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 12, 2016 7:46 pm

  76. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 8:03 pm

    And why are there no krystian “counsellors” in State HIGH schools … ?

    Get ’em while they’re young … religion should be an ADULT decision …

  77. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2016 8:44 pm

    Indeed …

    These days an anti religious sentiment qualifies as racism.

  78. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 8:56 pm

    These days an anti religious sentiment qualifies as racism.

    Once more, a cryptic comment … is that even an original comment?

    With whom?

    You have to believe in organised religion? (Nothing changes – nothing is new)

    Or are you referring to the twits that don’t understand that islam is a religion … not a race?

    Or are you attempting to accuse me of racism????

  79. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 12, 2016 9:09 pm

    These days an anti religious sentiment qualifies as racism

    Because we have a non-secular state with over representation from white christian males do you mean? 😉

    anti religion = racism, I doubt it, since all races have some kind of religion trying to gain influence, meddle and impose controls everywhere it can, I can’t see how that argument flies.

  80. February 12, 2016 9:12 pm

    Like I said, TB. You are so self-obsessed you just don’t get it. Bigotry is when you think you are so right about something you can justify attacking those who hold the wrong opinion.

  81. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2016 9:19 pm

    Certainly Islamophobia is generally regarded as racism.

    Anti semantic views are widely regarded as racist.

    It is increasingly accepted that the definition of racism has broadened to include culture as well as actual race.

  82. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2016 9:22 pm

    semantic??????

    auto spell check did it, although most here are anti semantics

  83. February 12, 2016 9:31 pm

    “Those I accuse of bigotry have left their trail of hate on the internet for all to see.”

    Yeah, they’re called “christians” in case you hadn’t noticed. They’ve been allowed to peddle their own unique brand of bigotry unchecked for decades until recent times, when more reasonably intelligent people decided they’re not going to tolerate their hatred any more.

  84. February 12, 2016 9:34 pm

    “Bigotry is when you think you are so right about something you can justify attacking those who hold the wrong opinion.”

    That would be you wouldn’t it?

  85. February 12, 2016 10:01 pm

    “That would be you wouldn’t it?”

    You would have an example then?

  86. February 12, 2016 10:12 pm

    Yeah like when you tell gay people that pointing out that so-called “christians” are bigots, that that somehow amounts to bigotry.

    What else of have you got?

  87. February 12, 2016 10:30 pm

    Your so called fkn “christians” and your “belief system” is so fragile isn’t it.

    If you really had the strength of your convictions you really would’t care about what other ppl think.

    But here you are, having your fragile little theology being ripped apart by the tragic real life experience of those who have suffered at the hands of your child sex abuse criminals.

    But good on you for sticking up for them ToSY.

    You must be real proud.

  88. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 11:11 pm

    … you can justify attacking those who hold the wrong opinion.

    erm … I point out the hypocrisy of religion … guess who’s doing the attacking … are your beliefs so fragile?

  89. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2016 11:15 pm

    The problem ToSY is that some of us have felt the wrath of the religious bigots from childhood into adulthood because we wouldn’t conform …

    But no-one has attacked you personally … you’ve done that …

    Get the difference?

    I can assure trying to cut off the source of your struggle … me … won’t help …

    The natural state is non belief … not a belief in god … that’s learned … and practised … over and over …

  90. February 13, 2016 5:49 am

    reb,,,,,Denouncing people who believe in a sky fairy isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty,,,,,#TICK!

    tinfoil`osy,,,,,Insert any other group in place of `who believe in a sky fairy` and you might get it,,,,,

    #Denouncing people `who molest children` isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty

    #Denouncing people `who believe in hiding pedo-files` isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty

    #Denouncing people `who believe they should be above the law` isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty

    #Denouncing people `who believe using a sky fairy to spread their own brand of hatefullness` isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty (whether cat-lick or death-cult, doesn`t matter)

    #Denouncing people `who believe using a sky fairy for tax-dodging-avoidance purposes` isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty

    #Denouncing people `who believe using a sky fairy to feign credibility or/and importance` isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty

    #Denouncing people `who believe using a sky fairy to interfere in others medical treatment` isn’t bigotry, it’s a civic duty

    tinfoil`osy,,,,,Catholics are a legitimate hate-group,,,,,

    #well, l guess we agree here tinfoil`osy, after all, the cat-lick history back-catalog does seem to include a continual practice of `hate`, burning at the stake witch-women, jews, muslims, atheists, gays and users of `round-planet` technology, thru to the modern pedo-cat-lick-era and cover-ups.

  91. February 13, 2016 6:26 am

    teabag,,,,,These days an anti religious sentiment qualifies as racism,,,,,

    #only by dumb-fcuks like ya`self that practice `downward-envy`

  92. February 13, 2016 8:55 am

    “”The natural state is non belief … not a belief in god … that’s learned … and practised … over and over …””

    Exactly.

    And drilled into you through fear of punishment and retribution if you don’t subscribe to their idiotic ideology. Plus a healthy dose of guilt just for good measure.

  93. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2016 9:59 am

    Must be my KIng Tut gravatar that intimidates people … or sumfink … ❓

  94. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 13, 2016 10:17 am

    Bigotry is when you think you are so right about something you can justify attacking those who hold the wrong opinion.

    If their opinions are, as you state ‘wrong’ isn’t that justifiable then? Shouldn’t we, in a decent society, aim to educate and correct wrong opinions? That is what we are supposed to have national leadership for, not to promote bigotry, abuse [physical and emotional] and exclusion.

    It is the christians who are practising the bigotry and hating on other peope because they don’t fit into their ‘accepted lifestyle’, but when the persecuted fight back, the christians [and their supporters] pretend to be victims of persecution themselves. That’s kind having it both ways isn’t it?

  95. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 13, 2016 10:26 am

    Anti semantic views are widely regarded as racist.

    That too

    You lot should be ashamed 🙂

    No sure that TB is the worst offender in attacking ignorance and bigotry anyway, reb, myself and tbagz are all committed to the same good cause.

    What do we think of the school prefects getting the lecture from the church representative, telling them that men rule over them eh?

  96. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 13, 2016 10:27 am

    And toiletboss when he’s around.

  97. February 13, 2016 10:30 am

    “But here you are, having your fragile little theology being ripped apart by the tragic real life experience of those who have suffered at the hands of your child sex abuse criminals.
    But good on you for sticking up for them ToSY.
    You must be real proud.”

    That is exactly not what I am doing. I’m sticking up for the millions of people in this country, and billions more around the world who identify as Catholic and DID NOT do any of those things. But you already knew that.

  98. February 13, 2016 10:36 am

    “Yeah like when you tell gay people that pointing out that so-called “christians” are bigots, that that somehow amounts to bigotry.”

    Being gay and bigoted are not mutually exclusive, as your sentence above illustrates.

  99. Tom R permalink
    February 13, 2016 11:04 am

    I’m sticking up for the millions of people in this country, and billions more around the world who identify as Catholic and DID NOT do any of those things.

    I AGREE!

    When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
    Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope – do you think he’s a fool?

    As much damage as the Church has done, there is also much good it has done, even if it is just giving suckers succour

    imo 😉

  100. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 13, 2016 11:11 am

    That is exactly not what I am doing. I’m sticking up for the millions of people in this country, and billions more around the world who identify as Catholic and DID NOT do any of those things. But you already knew that.

    They have stood by and done nothing to stop it though. If they all stopped attending, giving their money, their time and support, the church would have been forced to change it’s ways a long ago.

    They know it is an organisation that teaches hatred and bigotry to others, including oppression of half the population, women. An organisation that has for decades practised the most inhumane, cruel physical and sexual abuse upon thousands of innocent children who were entrusted into their care? They might have done none [or only some] of those things themselves, but they have also done nothing to stop it and nothing to shine a light on it. They have been devoted followers.
    They make excuses, talk about human fallibility and ‘interpretation of the bible by men vs the bible itself, follow the teachings in their own homes and their own small environment/footprint and defend the church when under attack.

    You can’t say they are innocent or even ignorant, the bigotry is right there in the church’s teachings.

    Being gay and bigoted are not mutually exclusive, as your sentence above illustrates.

    It’s not bigotry when your very existence, your personhood is subject to persecution and criminalising by a powerful, organised religion, an organisation that has influence in government, the law and the policing of the nation [remember it used to be illegal until very recently] it is a defence and attack against bigotry.

  101. February 13, 2016 1:28 pm

    bleat-bleat-bleat,,,,,I`m sticking up for the millions of people in this country, and billions more around the world who identify as Catholic and DID NOT do any of those things,,,,,

    #which really just shows that you are (not-too-bright/over-indoctrinated/willfully-blind) to admit the INSTITUTIONAL-SKY-FAIRY that demands tax-breaks, political-interference, and pedo-protection-racket is being rightfully mocked, nobody here gives a flying-fcuk what others do in the privacy of their own home tinfoil`osy, only what `others` try and `inflict` on the rest of us, when your sky-fairy-club is NOT doing the stuff listed above, it probably won`t be mocked as much (but let`s face it, planet-flatness has been quite a doozie)

  102. Tom R permalink
    February 13, 2016 2:20 pm

    As someone over at pb mused aloud last night, why does people resigning in Labor = CHAOS, but with the libs, our media prefer to view it as “renewal”?

  103. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2016 2:33 pm

    Well, well, well so the AFP are actually moving then … albeit slowly …

    What a mess two years of Abbott has left behind … and still TurnAbbout does nothing … its the stagnation of a Australia going nowhere that’s buggering up the economy … treading water, flip-flop brain farts, procrastination, fiddling around the edges … no-one can make (or feels like) making a decision because the bloody government doesn’t know what its doing and can’t find a way to keep the Robber Baron’s happy!

    Mal Brough has formally resigned from the front bench ahead of Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s major reshuffle expected to be announced on Saturday.

    He had stood aside as Special Minister of State just after Christmas pending a federal police investigation into the copying of Peter Slipper’s official diaries when he was Speaker

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/mal-brough-resigns-from-ministry/news-story/6a0e6be575093a39147e2d670fe6c1db

  104. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 13, 2016 2:45 pm

    Does that men that the AFP investigations are complete?

    And more importantly, will there be a prosecution? Resigning from the ministry is not enough. This is the man who tried to orchestrate [with others] the downfall of a government. Resignation from ministry is not punishment enough.

  105. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2016 2:46 pm

    This’ll cheer you up, ToSY …

    http://www.news.com.au/world/south-america/pope-francis-kisses-russian-orthodox-leader-in-historic-meeting/news-story/d99d688971b01dacc7794a77a190c56b

    (Noice gowns and headgear … hey?)

  106. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2016 2:51 pm

    This is the man who tried to orchestrate [with others] the downfall of a government.

    Just what is the punishment for TREASON!

  107. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2016 2:53 pm

    According to Wikipedia

    The penalty is life imprisonment, except for conspiracy, for which the maximum sentence is 14 years imprisonment.

  108. February 13, 2016 3:05 pm

    on my frightened abc24, talkbull just announced new zombie line-up, 6-women in cabinet and 10-women in teh-executive, and both teabags and teabumpkins have female deputy`s, a `first-ever`.

    #The remaining oxygen just got sucked from the lungs of blib, and, the swoon-flow has been entrenched for talkbull as talking-head feminista and teabag-media will be swooning under talkbulls charm and `innovation` of increasing female-zombie-power, all the while still selling the same teabag can`of crap.

    #swoon.baby.swoon

  109. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 13, 2016 4:07 pm

    I’d say the blokes have ruled themselves out of the ministry due to all the abbott led ‘white hot anger’ going on, so turnbull thought he’d give it to the women, who I’m sure will be very grateful for the chance to shine.

    Good strategy [assisted by lucy] and it might just keep him in office unless

    -the policies stink
    – abbott throws bombs

  110. February 13, 2016 4:47 pm

    ao,,,the policies stink,,,#they will, (same can`of crap)

    ao,,,abbott throws bombs,,,#they will, (yaay monkey pod)

  111. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 13, 2016 6:10 pm

    This is the man who tried to orchestrate [with others] the downfall of a government.

    Do you really think the guy is that smart. Just wishfull thinking by lefties.

    only what `others` try and `inflict` on the rest of us,

    Trouble with comments like that is that nobody really knows what influence the Christian church has on peoples behaviour. I know when the Christian missionaries went to non-Christian countries they found cannibalism, wife burning, ritual suicide and lots of other things that are banned in Australia.

    Muslims are allowed to have 4 wives something which is against the law in Australia. In ancient Rome for Saturday night entertainment they watched people fight to death. Who knows what we would be doing if the Church disappeared.

  112. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2016 6:36 pm

    Who knows what we would be doing if the Church disappeared.

    Let’s try shall we …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    tiny box on The Guardian

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/13/labor-promises-to-cut-negative-gearing-and-capital-gains-tax-concessions

    great big box on The Guardian

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/13/turnbull-announces-cabinet-reshuffle-aimed-squarely-at-next-election

    I guess its all in the timing, the editor and the journos!

    Just lay back and think your enjoying it?

  113. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2016 6:36 pm

    BTW Kneel did you know the Pope used to be married?

  114. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2016 6:38 pm

    Can you spell hypocrisy?

  115. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 13, 2016 6:49 pm

    Who knows what we would be doing if the Church disappeared.

    The secular state would be providing the same services that the church is currently being funded by taxpayers to provide, without the religious proselytising.

  116. February 13, 2016 6:51 pm

    zombie,,,,,nobody really knows what influence the Christian church has,,,,,

    #bullshit, scroll-up and see my `partial` list

    zombie,,,,,when the Christian missionaries went to non-Christian countries they,,,,,

    #often fcuked-up that society even more by inflicting their sky-fairy upon it

    zombie,,,,,have 4 wives something which is,,,,,#blah-blah-blah

    #even before tumbling from the tree-tops, primates had multiple breeding-buddies, just as other critters do

  117. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 13, 2016 7:14 pm

    Like i said nobody really knows what we would be doing if the Christian church was not around.

    BTW Kneel did you know the Pope used to be married?

    Like most people my age my parents sent me to Sunday School. But it was a protestant sunday school. I was not aware at the time the history of all the splits and schisms in the church. And most kids stopped going in their early teens. I do not think many people in this country go to church at all these days. I did not meet anybody who claimed to be Catholic until i left school. And i hardly meet anybody that still goes to church but i bump into the odd Muslim but i have not meet anybody at work who claims to be a Christain.

    But in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s it was very common for parents to send their kids to Sunday School. Bob Hawkes father was a protestant minister.

  118. Religious Protection Racket permalink
    February 13, 2016 7:14 pm

    But you already knew that.

  119. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 13, 2016 9:40 pm

    …But you already knew that…

    Yes tosy, that sounds all very lovely, but it is still a non acceptance of people, no matter how it’s dressed up.

    …On the eve of the gathering, the Vatican dismissed a Polish priest from his Holy See job after he came out as gay and called for changes in Catholic teachings against homosexual activity…

    Is the church implying that all homosexuals are paedophiles? We know that paedophiles flocked to the church because they were given a safe haven and protection from prosecution, but can anyone tell me if there is an over representation of homosexuals as paedophiles in the general community?

    I don’t know, i would be very interested to have someone tell me.

    Perhaps the church should stamp out their traditions and behaviours to ensure children are protected from actual paedophiles and ensure prosecution of offenders rather than punish people who have a same sex orientation with the slur.

    Here too:

    …One key topic at the synod will be how to reach out to Catholics who have divorced and remarried in civil ceremonies.

    They are considered by the Church to be still married to their first spouse and living in a state of sin. Some bishops want a change to the rules that bars them from receiving sacraments such as communion.

    Last month, Francis made it simpler and swifter for Catholics to secure a marriage annulment, the most radical such reform for 250 years, and told bishops to be more welcoming to divorced couples…

    Better to have stupid annulments on fanciful grounds and pretend to wipe your past life clean than actually re-marry with acceptance.

    One step forward and two steps backward it seems.

  120. February 13, 2016 10:01 pm

    ao,,,,,representation of homosexuals as paedophiles in the general community?,,,,,

    #the only story l know of is a pair of pedo`s that `posed` as gays to adopt a child a few years ago, they weren`t `actually` gay

  121. February 13, 2016 10:17 pm

    “”can anyone tell me if there is an over representation of homosexuals as paedophiles in the general community?””

    Most of the stats I’ve read suggest that most child sexual abuse is heterosexual in nature and usually carried out by a family member, relative or acquaintance of the victim.

  122. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 13, 2016 10:26 pm

    …Most of the stats I’ve read suggest that most child sexual abuse is heterosexual in nature and usually carried out by a family member, relative or acquaintance of the victim…

    Yes, I think you’re right reb. That would fit with most stats that I’ve seen too. So, why do the catholic church and it’s representatives keep trying to smear homosexuals with paedophilia and bestiality and rubbish like that?

  123. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 12:24 pm

    Flip Flop!

    PUBLIC transport-using Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has suddenly downgraded the concern he once offered to the millions of voters struggling with big city life.

    His new spokesman on cities, Angus Taylor, isn’t even a minister. He is an assistant minister, a position which, until Mr Turnbull changed labels, was known as a parliamentary secretary. And Mr Taylor, who now will be tending to issues affecting 15 million Australians residing in capitals, has his office 200km into the bush in the seat of Hume.

    He is merely a “minister assisting” the Prime Minister rather than holder of a distinct portfolio, and also has to look after “digital transformation”.

    Labor considers this a reduced interest in a major matter, and so does the former Minister for Cities, Jamie Briggs, who lost the job after a late-night incident in a Hong Kong bar.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/how-prime-minister-malcolm-turnbull-snubbed-city-dwelling-aussies/news-story/98ec96781c3d000c658dae1e61f7b62f

    And doesn’t this photo classify in the Caption Contest … so Monty Python!

    http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/5ea16c86637215856c251853697c84bc

    “Oi do not loike ‘is ‘aircut one littul bit!”

  124. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 12:27 pm

    Chris Bowen nailed Negative Gearing on Offsiders!

    Choose between Bowen and Morrison? No-brainer … Morrison is wallowing around with weasel words and airy fairy concepts …

    Bowen would, in fact make a really good PM …

  125. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 12:38 pm

    NSW Labor will become the first Australian political party to disclose political donations within seven days, opposition leader Luke Foley says.

    The source and amount of donations will be disclosed within a week, in a new system to be operational a year before the next election, Mr Foley announced at the NSW Labor conference.

    “I challenge Mr Baird and the Liberals to make the same commitment,” he told more than 800 cheering delegates in Sydney on Sunday.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/labor-nsw-to-disclose-donations-live/news-story/5db41cc43edb23bbb7f531a16d784421

  126. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 14, 2016 2:08 pm

    Bowen would, in fact make a really good PM …

    He was a failed immigration minister. About half the 50,000 boat people who came to Australia did so when Bowen was immigration minister.

    He is typical Labor. Looks good but is totally useless. Turnbull has some similarities. Turnbull is smarter than most people but i suspect when wisdom is required Turnbull does not have it.

    Bowen is the same. Can fool stupid people into supporting his failed policies. AS immigration minister Bowen did not stop one boat. Said it was not possible.

  127. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 14, 2016 2:53 pm

    Budget impacts of negative gearing:
    http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/FlagPost/2015/August/Budget-impact-negative-gearing

  128. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 14, 2016 5:06 pm

    Bowen would, in fact make a really good PM …

    Do try to keep up TB.

  129. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 5:57 pm

    With what …?

  130. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 6:09 pm

    Many Facebook followers of the Prime Minister wished the couple well on Valentine’s Day, but others took the opportunity to point out that Australia lags behind the rest of the western world when it comes to allowing same-sex marriage.

    “Well because of you and your party I will never know what it will be like to marry my partner of nearly 10 years. So happy for you both,” Tomas Allan Leaumont commented.

    Another pointed post was made by Douglas McFarland.

    “When I first asked my partner to marry me, he said let’s wait till our government lets us … and now, four years later, we have to wait until 51 per cent of the country lets us (and then the government an still reject it) … you and Lucy are beautiful together, an inspiring couple … just wish your leadership was more inspiring on Marriage. We all know you get it, we all know you want it, we all know you are spinning political bs when you support the plebiscite. Perhaps Valentine’s day is the perfect day to scrap the plebiscite! Happy Valentine’s day to you both, it must be a lovely reminder of your marriage. As opposed to the constant reminder that same sex couples love is less!” he stated.

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/marriage/prime-minister-malcolm-turnbulls-valentine-message-to-lucy-slammed-by-proponents-of-gay-marriage/news-story/d4c91639bd9c9d0f4d554d831a7bffdf

  131. February 14, 2016 7:19 pm

    “”With what …?””

    🙂

    The union bashing/non union bashing…?

    I agree, it is hard to keep up…

    🙂

  132. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:03 pm

    Business investigations/non business investigations … ?

    🙂

  133. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:04 pm

    GST changes/ no GST changes … ?
    🙂

  134. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:05 pm

    Negative gearing/ no negative gearing …? 🙂

  135. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:06 pm

    Liberal pollies spending like King Lear? 🙂

  136. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:07 pm

    Government flip/ government flop … 🙂

  137. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:07 pm

    Old PM/New PM 🙂

  138. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:09 pm

    Cabinet Shuffle/Cabinet Re-shuffle/Cabinet Re-shuffle/Cabinet Re-shuffle … 🙂

  139. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:09 pm

    No Policy/ No Policy

  140. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:13 pm

    Isn’t it time we had a Royal Commission on corruption in the Liberal-Country-Liberal-National-Country-Liberal Party Unions?

    During a four-minute media conference on Sunday afternoon, he said: “After much thought and soul-searching I have decided it is in the best interests of the Country Liberals party (CLP), the government and Territorians more broadly that I resign from my ministerial responsibilities, including that of deputy chief minister,” he told reporters.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/14/nt-deputy-leader-willem-westra-van-holthe-resigns-amid-scandal

  141. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:29 pm

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/14/keys-to-queenslands-lockout-laws-weigh-heavy-in-hands-of-katter-party-mps

    What many people don’t see is that money is once again driving the lobby to destroy society …

    I can’t buy a loaf of bread at 3am?

    Shut the doors and many young blokes will stay at home (or with mates) … either way the hotheads (piss heads we used to call ’em) are controlled by family or friends … not get into fights with strangers and popped into the watchhouse … never been a nice place!

    This is the economy fuelling the fight against society …

    I must say tho’, that in my early days as a muso I saw (and talked my way out of) a lot of confrontation … if it did end up in a biff, the first bloke on the ground lost … and the other bloke helped him up and shouted the next round …

    That Aussie mateship has been destroyed … and its sad because while our Aussie blokes always stood up for their “shielas” and mates (and themselves) …

    … these days they kick the shit out of the loser on the ground! To kick a bloke when he was down would have had his mates all over him … definitely not on … we are after all, all Australians …

    This nation is so divided that we fight each other rather then defend each other …

    Very sad …

    And smiley Milkum TurnAbbout will not know how to fix it!

  142. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:29 pm

    Wow! All dem Tuts will stir the possum, hey?

  143. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:48 pm

    JOE HOCKEY quote …

    How someone in the top one per cent of income earners can still qualify to receive welfare payments, free health care or free education is beyond me.

    Ignorant hypocrite … answer: Because of YOU and the Liberal Party!

    JOE HOCKEY quote …

    I think, we all genuinely care for the elderly, the sick, the poor and the disadvantaged, but the only way for future generations to be able to pay for compassion
    is to end the age of entitlement.

    Ignorant hypocrite … you and Liberal Party pollies have an expectation of entitlement you do NOT deserve!

    … tax concessions on superannuation should be carefully pared back. In that framework, negative gearing should be skewed towards new housing so that there is an incentive to add to the housing stock rather than an incentive to speculate on existing property.

    All talk (as he leaves to take up the position Ambassador to the USA (age of entitlement anyone?) … no action!

    Hypocrites all …

  144. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 8:49 pm

    I feel like I should put up a painting or sumfink … 😉

  145. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2016 9:11 pm

    Long Tan – 18 killed (11 National Servicemen) 25 wounded … in a war that we should not have been involved in …

    108 men Of D Company – 6 Battalian RAR took on 2000 Vietnamese regulars and Viet Cong …

  146. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 10:57 am

    Hypocrisy Has A New Name, And It’s Janet Albrechtsen
    https://newmatilda.com/2016/02/15/hypocrisy-has-a-new-name-and-its-janet-albrechtsen/

    Roosh’s Unspeakable Awfulness, And Freedom Commissioner Tim Wilson’s Unashamed Hypocrisy
    https://newmatilda.com/2016/02/07/rooshs-unspeakable-awfulness-and-freedom-commissioner-tim-wilsons-unashamed-hypocrisy/

    The Hollow Man And The Real Leaders Of The Opposition:
    https://newmatilda.com/2016/02/13/the-hollow-man-and-the-real-leaders-of-the-opposition/

    …There a few better illustrations of Tariq Ali’s concept of the “extreme centre” than this ongoing bipartisan approach to asylum seeker policy. The extreme centre describes the ‘catastrophic consensus’ of mainstream political parties across the West, from Republicans and Democrats in the US, to New Labour and the Tories in the UK, to the Liberal and Labor parties here in Australia.

    Asked what’s extreme about the extreme centre, Ali says: “It backs the American wars and attacks its own people through austerity. It believes in surveillance on a level we have never seen before, it puts civil liberties under threat, it renditions people – a polite word meaning that people are kidnapped and handed over for torture. People talk about the extreme left and the extreme right, but the real danger today is from the extreme centre…

  147. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:10 am

    That last link is a corker ao

    I’m sure it’s satire 😉

    Bill Shorten deserves many titles: the hollow man, the yes man, the zinger man, the lettuce man, but Opposition Leader is not one of them.

    You mean a “yes man” who saw off a first term pm

    Killed the GST before they could even get it going

    Announced they will take on Negative Gearing and CGT

    Has declared their support for the same Carbon Price that brought down their Government before

    The list goes on. To pick one issue, and declare that they are no opposition

    Yea, it’s satire alright 😉

    This is what an opposition does. 😉

  148. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:16 am

    But I see the current mob would prefer to hit those worst off, still

    This year, $44 billion will be spent on the Age Pension. The chamber wants the government to consider converting pension payments to elderly homeowners into a loan that is repaid when the property is sold.

    The chamber also says abolishing Family Tax Benefit Part B could save $13.9bn across four years, while means-testing the Child Care Rebate could save $250 million a year.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/acci-plan-turn-age-pension-into-loan-recoup-from-sale-of-home/news-story/1a95cea52452de607c5cd4f1f6ed373e

    They’re already on their way there with part B 😦

    Changes to Family Tax Benefit

    22 December 2015

    There’ll be changes to Family Tax Benefit from 1 July 2016.

    If you’re a couple and your youngest child is 13 years or older you’ll no longer be paid Family Tax Benefit Part B.

    https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/news/changes-family-tax-benefit

    That ones going to hurt us badly 😦

  149. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:34 am

    This year, $44 billion will be spent on the Age Pension. The chamber wants the government to consider converting pension payments to elderly homeowners into a loan that is repaid when the property is sold.

    yeah, I read this, this morning … I’ve been wondering what happened to wally – 🙂

    I clashed with the Queensland CCI every time we had a meeting with them … bunch of morons with little or no work/life experience … seems they’ve been “promoted” to a national level …

    Some of us own our homes and paid for our age pension in taxes … conveniently forgotten … want to play those games then I expect compensation for being “stolen” from my family!

  150. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:35 am

  151. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:40 am

    hang on, remember when he said he resigned his lib party membership to become HRC?

    Now he’s resigned as HRC to be lib party rep?

    Timmy doesn’t know if he’s coming or going!

    labor’s jacinta collins tries to get the truth [p.24 onwards] but brandis and o’sullivan running interference for him.

    http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/committees/estimate/130f253d-cd51-4682-a6ea-4da3fcda08d0/toc_pdf/Legal%20and%20Constitutional%20Affairs%20Legislation%20Committee_2016_02_09_4132.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf#search=%222010s%22

  152. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:40 am

    Speaking of zingers, TR … those tweets from veni, say it all!

  153. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:41 am

    conveniently forgotten

    Yea, you should have “invested” instead, perhaps in the Caymans?

  154. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:48 am

    Tim will be for marriage equality then?

    Hoping for a Ministerial appointment? $400,000 to $200,000 as a backbencher is a big drop – oh, I forgot all the expenses and perqs!

    Wonder what religion Tim is? Any guesses?

  155. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:50 am

    This is what an opposition does. 😉

    Except when it comes to asylum seekers and to be fair, I’m pretty sure that is what the article was about.

  156. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:53 am

    Timmy doesn’t know if he’s coming or going!

    Where’s chriskennys outrage!!

  157. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:59 am

    Yea, you should have “invested” instead, perhaps in the Caymans?

    Well I did have a head start I guess at 14 yo but on apprentice wages I had to borrow money to pay rent … (just jokin’) … of my ₤5 17s 6d pw (tradies earned about ₤35) … I got 10s … Mum took the rest.

    First time we had money to invest I was 44 $10,0000 had no idea what to do with it … luckily our bank manager was a “good” bloke …

  158. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:59 am

    Except when it comes to asylum seekers and to be fair, I’m pretty sure that is what the article was about.

    Yes, it was about that, and ignored absolutely everything else while making a generic statement. Which is why I mentioned it 😉

  159. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2016 12:00 pm

  160. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 12:02 pm

    Except when it comes to asylum seekers and to be fair, I’m pretty sure that is what the article was about.

    The thrust was asylum seekers but unfortunately spread to “everything” …

    BTW, local council election Labor placards in the front yesterday – still standing! 🙂

  161. February 15, 2016 12:10 pm

    “”Wonder what religion Tim is? Any guesses?””

    I believe he’s one of the happy clappy Hillsong mob.

    Who, incidentally frown upon homosexuals, so I imagine he’s quite a confused individual…

  162. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 12:17 pm

    Yes, it was about that, and ignored absolutely everything else while making a generic statement. Which is why I mentioned it 😉

    If you want to make a point about something, why must you put ‘everything else’ into it? is this that requirement for balance thing again? You can accuse new matilda of many things, but balance is not one of them [which is why I like them]. They full on criticise both sides for their inadequacy.

    And labor does need to be criticised in regard to their asylum seeker lockstep, you can’t just sweep that under the carpet yourselves for other generic statements either.

    The thrust was asylum seekers but unfortunately spread to “everything” …

    no, that’s nowhere near ‘everything’ 🙂

  163. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 12:45 pm

  164. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2016 1:07 pm

    why must you put ‘everything else’ into it?

    cos this seems to imply “everything

    Asked what’s extreme about the extreme centre, Ali says: “It backs the American wars and attacks its own people through austerity. It believes in surveillance on a level we have never seen before, it puts civil liberties under threat, it renditions people – a polite word meaning that people are kidnapped and handed over for torture. People talk about the extreme left and the extreme right, but the real danger today is from the extreme centre.”

    Sure, his article is mostly about asylum seekers (and Labor are NOT in lock step), but when he just declares he is a “yes man”, and when he brings in this “extreme center” he doesn’t bother to mention it is ONLY on this subject Labor are “yessing” to.

  165. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 1:31 pm

    …cos this seems to imply “everything…

    And I think it is a worthy argument, this ‘extreme centre’ that seems to be removing our civil rights and freedoms is happening under both labor and liberal governments.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/matthewson-time-for-a-turnbull-reset/7168036

    …Malcolm Turnbull has a one-off (if not entirely deserved) opportunity to reinvent his government, re-set voter expectations, and deliver policies befitting, dare we say, an innovative Government…

  166. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 2:03 pm

    … so I imagine he’s quite a confused individual…

    Indeed … and his partner – Ryan!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    no, that’s nowhere near ‘everything’ 🙂

    Is that you ToM? 😀

  167. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2016 2:16 pm

  168. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 2:40 pm

    I have no idea if this is true:

  169. February 15, 2016 2:48 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  170. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 15, 2016 3:20 pm

    BREAKING: George Brandis will not contest the next erection.”

    ”unlike me.

  171. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 3:30 pm

  172. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 15, 2016 4:04 pm

    Four graphs that show who benefits most from negative gearing

    I tend to agree that NG is a rort for the rich but what to do about it? Furthermore because of low interest rates and poor share market returns rich people are tending to buy property rather than shares.

    I think if interest rates go up to more normal levels people will start to put money into cash and shares. So we need a interest rate rise.

  173. Walrus permalink
    February 15, 2016 4:11 pm

    Oh My Dog

    I can see the duck and the rabbit instantly which means I’m very creative and here I am being an accountant.

    I should have been an advertising exec, a great actor………..a great artist perhaps.

    Perhaps beneath my cardigan lurks another Pablo Picasso ??????????????????????

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/can-you-see-a-duck-or-rabbit-apparently-this-optical-illusion-says-a-lot-about-your-creativity/news-story/c9682010642308d0c4c528ca10f152e4

  174. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 4:20 pm

    BREAKING: George Brandis will not contest the next erection (sic)

    LOL! Gold!!!!! 😀

  175. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 4:23 pm

    I tend to agree that NG is a rort for the rich but what to do about it?

    SIMPLES … STOP IT!

  176. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 15, 2016 4:30 pm

    I also think people are upgrading their properties and then claiming the cost as a tax deduction. So someone may renovate the kitchen and claim the full cost as a tax deduction which is not allowed. But since our tax system is an honour system you will only get caught if you are audited.

    Negative gearing is also pushing up home prices and making it harder for young people to get into the market.

  177. Walrus permalink
    February 15, 2016 4:39 pm

    “But since our tax system is an honour system you will only get caught if you are audited.”

    NoS it would have to be a pretty crappy kitchen for that not to be spotted. The ATO’s software does look for spikes in deductions.

  178. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 15, 2016 4:50 pm

    OK i did not know that. I guess it may be harder to get away with things now that computers are looking for spikes. But i remember 20 years ago i knew someone who did that and got away with it.

    I think you can still deduct capital improvements but only at 2.5% of the total cost but i am sure there are still people who improve their rental property and then claim the total cost.

  179. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 5:02 pm

    … i am sure there are still people who improve their rental property and then claim the total cost.

    Only Liberal voters would do that surely?

  180. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 15, 2016 5:15 pm

    The ATO’s software does look for spikes in deductions.

    What is to stop the landlord renovating the kitchen after the tenant has left and before a new tenant arrives and then say the renovation was needed because the tenant trashed the kitchen?

  181. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 5:17 pm

    I can see the duck and the rabbit instantly which means I’m very creative and here I am being an accountant.

    er, don’t they mean the same thing … creative and accountant …?

    Just sayin’ …

    I’ve got a drawer full of these and a couple of the books that were popular a couple of decades ago … useful for H&S training …

    (I can see both BTW) … we could be brothers! 😯

  182. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 5:18 pm

    … and then say the renovation was needed because the tenant trashed the kitchen?

    Because that’s what insurance is for …

  183. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 5:27 pm

    >The Fairfax-Ipsos poll shows the Coalition government now leads the Labor opposition 52% to 48% after preferences, down from the 56% to 44% margin it recorded in the previous such survey in mid-November.

    The result is also lower than the Coalition’s 53.5% two-party-preferred support when Tony Abbott won the 2013 election.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/15/poll-shows-support-for-malcolm-turnbulls-government-slipping

    And another one bites the dust!

    Ian Macfarlane, the former cabinet minister who unsuccessfully tried to defect from the Liberals to the Nationals, will bow out of parliament at the next election.

    Macfarlane served as the minister for industry and science in Tony Abbott’s government and was dumped from the frontbench shortly after the leadership change in September despite being a long-time friend of Malcolm Turnbull.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/15/ian-macfarlane-to-quit-parliament-at-next-election-after-failed-nationals-defection

  184. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 6:40 pm

    Ian Macfarlane, the former cabinet minister who unsuccessfully tried to defect from the Liberals to the Nationals, will bow out of parliament at the next election.

    Macfarlane must be very dirty on Malcolm, he says his ‘talents and skills’ are wasted on the backbench!

    I say good riddance.

    Tony Abbott is just tooo quiet, what’s he up to 😉

    The tropfest stoush
    BTW, how much does Tropfest managing director Michael Laverty look like Bill Shorten, or is it just me?

    Nicole Kidman, Hillsong and a dispute over cash: the drama behind the scenes that nearly killed Tropfest

    http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/nicole-kidman-hillsong-and-a-dispute-over-cash-the-drama-behind-the-scenes-that-nearly-killed-tropfest-20160214-gmqdhz.html#ixzz40DhDX2dm

  185. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 6:44 pm

  186. February 15, 2016 6:56 pm

    AO,,,,,you’re right reb. That would fit with most stats that I’ve seen,,,#DITTO

    ao,,,,,So, why do the catholic church and it’s representatives keep trying to smear homosexuals with paedophilia and bestiality and rubbish like that?,,,,,

    #teh dog-clubs smear shit on everything that frightens them (cat-licks lead the charge) using the all elusive sky-fairy or talking-snake to take blame or absolve blame, for centuries the cat-licks used the sky-fairy as their excuse to loot and murder others in `their` crusades and inquisitions, today they are reduced to a tax-haven and pedo-protection racket

  187. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 6:57 pm

    Godbotherers, why do they hate so?

  188. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 7:07 pm

    There must be more to this story!

    Man dead after being run over in Cairns by assistant police commissioner Paul Taylor
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/man-dead-after-police-officer-runs-him-over-in-cairns/7167678

    …The incident happened in the driveway of the Cairns district police building shortly before 4:30am.

    The ABC was told the victim, 37-year-old Longreach butcher Ryan Savage, who had been visiting Cairns, had been lying in the driveway…

    Lying in the driveway before or after the accident?

  189. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 15, 2016 7:16 pm

    Neolibs privatisation ideology falling apart.Why subsidize the pri medical sector,let them stand on their own.Medicare is 4 every1

    I can answer that. The neolibs would say that people using private medicine would move into the public hospitals and swamp the system if it was not for private health insurance.

    Why do lefties want to socialise everything?

  190. February 15, 2016 7:17 pm

    team-cheerer,,,,You mean a `yes man` who saw off a first term pm,,,,

    #oh FFS wake-up team-cheerer, the `swoon` is still flowing `strongly` to he who got rid of the rabbit, and your team deluding themselves they had anything to do with rabbit`s self-implosion is exactly reflected in the polls, you team-cheerers would be doing a lot better if you were hounding your own team to do better, instead of singing false praises to each other

  191. February 15, 2016 7:19 pm

    “You know, I used to think God only helped professional athletes and Grammy winners.” ~ Homer

    (Simpson)

  192. February 15, 2016 7:22 pm

    “Macfarlane must be very dirty on Malcolm, he says his ‘talents and skills’ are wasted on the backbench!”

    It’s his soothing voice I’ll miss.

  193. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 7:31 pm

    GOD is a SURFBOARD!

  194. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 15, 2016 7:37 pm

    Macfarlane must be very dirty on Malcolm, he says his ‘talents and skills’ are wasted on the backbench!

    Macfarlane was one of the 54 traitors but Turnbull did not show him any loyalty. I think Turnbull is Labors best weapon. He is too divisive for the Coalition.

  195. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 7:45 pm

    Lying in the driveway before or after the accident?

    I’m with you KL … the truth will out … I’m guessing a love triangle here!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    SHAUN and Kylie Richards are angry they stand to lose their private health insurance rebate under the deal brokered in federal parliament yesterday.

    The couple, who own a commercial flooring business in Adelaide, earn a combined income of more than $258,000.

    This means they will lose the 30 per cent health insurance rebate they currently receive from the federal government.

    “It’s ridiculous – the better we do, the more the government takes,” Ms Richards said yesterday. “Every time we try to get ahead and don’t rely on the welfare system, we get a guarantee they’ll hit us again.”

    Ms Richards estimates the family spends more than $2650 a year on private health insurance, including hospital cover and extras, with Medibank Private.

    That’s just awful … I have health insurance because Medicare was destroyed by John Howard & The Private School Bullies! And its pretty close to the figure Mrs Richards quotes!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Why do lefties want to socialise everything?

    Why do Tories want to privatise everything the government is charged with providing?

    Mates! Profit! Mates! Profit! Mates! Profit! Mates! Profit! Mates! Profit! Mates! Profit!

    Lefties …

    Service! Service! Service! Service! Service! Service! Service! Service!

    Note: The government is the PEOPLE … not the PROFIT!

  196. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2016 7:47 pm

    Macfarlane was one of the 54 traitors but Turnbull did not show him any loyalty.

    CLASSIC! 😀

  197. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 15, 2016 7:51 pm

    Why do Tories want to privatise everything the government is charged with providing

    Because private enterprise can do things more efficiently. I cannot see why lefties do not like private health insurance. People paying extra money into the health system should surely be helping the system. If you abolished the rebate then a lot of people would just go into the public system and not have insurance.

    I suspect having the NBN being built by a govt company will mean it will take twice as long and cost twice as much as private enterprise could do it for.

  198. February 15, 2016 8:00 pm

    “Because private enterprise can do things more efficiently.”

    Exactly right, Neil.

    But the majority here want to let morons in Canberra take their money and decide how it should be spent.

    What could go wrong?

  199. February 15, 2016 8:13 pm

    I’ll be watching Q & A tonight*, for the first time in months, just to see what kind of reception Mark Steyn gets.

    *If I can stay awake.

  200. February 15, 2016 8:40 pm

    tinfoil`osy,,,,,,just to see what kind of reception Mark Steyn gets,,,,,,

    #steyn is obviously some kind of teabag-dcikhead, tinfoil`osy is only interested in his `reception`, not the discussion `content`, so l predict tinfoil`osy will be bleating later/tomorrow that his dcikhead steyn was treated like a dcikhead

  201. February 15, 2016 9:41 pm

    TJ just introduced the panel. Yep, steyn is a teabag. #qandaland

  202. February 15, 2016 9:48 pm

    Steyn just opened his mouth. Yep, he`s a dcikhead. #qandaland

  203. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 15, 2016 10:22 pm

    Does anyone else think reb should require at least an average IQ to participate here?

  204. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 15, 2016 10:23 pm

    Our very own Catching Up.

  205. February 15, 2016 10:53 pm

    teabag,,,,,an average IQ to participate here?,,,,,,

    #then you`d be fcuked

    #steyn is a mr-rabbit fanboi #qandaland

  206. CSIRO Change: The Factoids permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:05 pm

    Australia’s future is bright. We are blessed with the natural and institutional resources to prosper in any scenario for global energy demands. What we need to make the most of our future is innovation.”

  207. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 15, 2016 11:33 pm

    “Because private enterprise can do things more efficiently.”

    Yes, it certainly does a financial crisis very well, over over again.

    Where’s the evidence to support that statement?

    How efficient is Australia’s public sector? Short answer: very
    https://theconversation.com/how-efficient-is-australias-public-sector-short-answer-very-19908

    …However, there is often a false assumption that all government bureaucracies are inefficient. This kind of thinking would argue that international comparisons merely show Australia to be the best of the worst. But the assumption that the private sector is always necessarily more efficient than the public sector is not supported by theory or evidence.

    International research on outsourcing indicates that under similar conditions, public sector organisations in general perform similarly to private sector organisations. This provides a good indication that Australia’s public sector, which is more efficient than many similar public sectors internationally, would likewise perform as well as the private sector…

    Pursuing ‘efficiency’ in the public sector: why privatisation is not necessarily the answer:
    https://theconversation.com/pursuing-efficiency-in-the-public-sector-why-privatisation-is-not-necessarily-the-answer-13142

    The long-held belief that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector is not supported by theory or evidence

    Is there empirical evidence to support the idea that government is inefficient relative to private enterprise?
    https://www.quora.com/Is-there-empirical-evidence-to-support-the-idea-that-government-is-inefficient-relative-to-private-enterprise

    Privatisation doesn’t always lead to public good
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/privatisation-doesnt-always-lead-to-public-good-20140112-30oqu.html

  208. February 15, 2016 11:55 pm

    belief,,,,that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector is not supported by theory or evidence,,,,

    #totally fact-free, that`s why it`s central to teabag-theory #yaaaay.ayn.rand

  209. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2016 12:10 am

    Does anyone else think reb should require at least an average IQ to participate here?

    WTF does that mean? Another cryptic …

  210. February 16, 2016 12:32 am

    From dragonista, did you follow thru to this armchair?

    guardian,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The government has secured the support of the Greens and independent Senator Nick Xenophon to immediately pass a modified plan to change the Senate voting system as expectations grow that an election could be called soon after the budget in May.

    Greens spokeswoman Senator Lee Rhiannon confirmed to Guardian Australia that the Greens will back a plan that allows voters to number six groups of candidates `above the line` on the Senate voting paper, an option that is also backed by Xenophon.,,,,,,,,,

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/12/senate-voting-changes-coalition-wins-over-nick-xenophon-and-greens

    #this is just plain fcuking dumb by xeno+greenz, it plays to mainly benefit the `2-big-clap-trap-teams`

  211. February 16, 2016 12:40 am

    TB,,,,,WTF does that mean? Another cryptic,,,,,

    #teabag deludes himself of possessing an `average-iq`, yes it`s very fcuking average, he can`t even explain his own dot-points

  212. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 16, 2016 1:16 am

    A grumpy Catching Up

  213. SOGII It Goes permalink
    February 16, 2016 1:21 am

    “These meetings will be the first of many and are designed to have a discussion with invited participants about the key issues that have consistently been raised with the Commission.

    Depending on the discussions held by the roundtable, a body of policy work may be developed that is designed to enlarge respect for religious freedom and proper consideration of its importance in future policy development and law reform.”

  214. February 16, 2016 8:55 am

    “”Does anyone else think reb should require at least an average IQ to participate here?””

    It’s a valid point.

    Although maybe we should start with something less challenging first. Besides, having a low IQ hasn’t stopped Neil from commenting here, and it would perhaps be a little prejudicial to start filtering people out simply because they’re stupid.

    A dress code, on the other hand. That could be something.

    I mean, look at what TB wears, just strolling in here in a string vest and Y fronts. It’s a disgrace!

  215. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 16, 2016 9:33 am

    Dress standards or an IQ test. That way TB might still be able to participate.

    …but our version of Catching Up*** wouldn’t!

    (***poor spelling, grammar non existent, nonsensical/mindless commentary and false teeth)

  216. Tony permalink
    February 16, 2016 10:22 am

    Sarah Hanson-Young says the US election is all about inakwolladee.

  217. February 16, 2016 10:28 am

    Near the end, at around 1:03:30 Tony Jones asks Steyn about possible results of the US election. Listen to the reaction from the carefully-chosen-for-its-balance studio audience when Steyn mentions a Bernie Sanders presidency.

    http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s4398246.htm

  218. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2016 11:01 am

    “”Does anyone else think reb should require at least an average IQ to participate here?””

    It’s a valid point.

    Ahhh … now I get it … I thought he meant sreb should “”have”” an average IQ … 🙂

    …but our version of Catching Up*** wouldn’t!

    (***poor spelling, grammar non existent, nonsensical/mindless commentary and false teeth)

    I think Wally may find that rather insulting, ToM …

  219. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2016 11:05 am

    Listen to the reaction from the carefully-chosen-for-its-balance studio audience when Steyn mentions a Bernie Sanders presidency.

    Yeah, I heard that on my car radio … about 30% I’d guess … 😉

    Consider the alternative to Sanders …

  220. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 16, 2016 11:25 am

    Yeah, I heard that on my car radio … about 30% I’d guess …

    The fact that they clapped means audience sentiment was much higher. The ABC just reeks of socialist/leftist odor.

    And why are lefties scared of Trump? Why would he be more incompetent than anyone else?

  221. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 16, 2016 12:18 pm

    And why are lefties scared of Trump? Why would he be more incompetent than anyone else?

    See the caption above your comment, does that sound like someone who is appealing to the masses and the best in people, an inclusive leader, someone who will represent all peoples in that great big melting pot of nations in the US? [why isn’t ‘feel the bern’ playing the ‘melting pot’ song at his rallies]

    “…Listen to the reaction from the carefully-chosen-for-its-balance studio audience when Steyn mentions a Bernie Sanders presidency…”

    “…Yeah, I heard that on my car radio … about 30% I’d guess…”

    It’s got nothing to do with balance, it’s what the australian people want to see in our government. At least the US and the UK are capable of offering a DEMOCRATIC socialist representative to the people. The australian public don’t even get that option, we have two right wing conservative parties who take turns in ruling over us with impunity.
    The political class is so out of step with the voters that we have some politicians saying [re SSM] it doesn’t matter if we hold a plebiscite, we still won’t allow it! These people represent themselves and their lobbies, they have no interest in what we want. They are holding back the tide of progress in this country and they need to be shoved out of the way or run over.

    BRING BACK BLUE MINK!

  222. February 16, 2016 12:39 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  223. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 16, 2016 12:58 pm

    …Depending on the discussions held by the roundtable, a body of policy work may be developed that is designed to enlarge respect for religious freedom and proper consideration of its importance in future policy development and law reform.”…

    Yes, where is our right to be free from religion and free from paying for religion, that concept seems to be completely absent from the agenda of the australian government.
    It is quite worrying that a human rights ‘freedom’ commissioner sees his job as promoting religious freedoms only and has been completely silent on inherent human rights. His entire time in office was spent promoting property rights and rights for religion to proselytise and discriminate. What a waste of taxpayer dollars, religion and property already have too much influence in government.

    We are being taken for mugs, we need a BoR so badly.

    …#this is just plain fcuking dumb by xeno+greenz, it plays to mainly benefit the `2-big-clap-trap-teams`…

    That is another good debate and I’m in two minds about it. The ‘gaming’ of the micro parties is what saved us and our economy from the liberal party’s austerity and cronyism, I am so glad that some of them turned out to be very sensible, ricky muir and glenn lazarus off the top of my head, even clive helped us.

    I think the problem with the gaming of the system is the lack of transparency for voters. The parties [and the majors do it too] make back room deals that are secret and the voters know nothing about them, so end up with political representatives that they had no intention of voting for in the first place.

    That is wrong I think.

    I’m all for open, honest transparency in our voting system and we do not get it from the parties or the politicians, we don’t know their affiliations, their financial backers or their allegiances at the time of voting. Unless you research and google them all, they are just a name on the voting paper and the names are often misleading, the opposite of their actual party description [ultra conservative like to fool the voters this way]. The major parties create smaller parties to filter votes back to themselves, the public is being gamed.

    So, I would be happy to vote for ricky muir should he run again, but he should run in a very transparent system, where the people vote for him and his party directly not indirectly through secret deals. Having said that, I also think we need protections and regulations to prevent the two majors from using their influence to legislate against smaller parties who want to compete against them.

    I am wondering whether the entire system of preferential voting is the real problem, do we need another, more transparent and honest system?

    All I can say now is that we are not getting what we want in parliament, we are getting what the parties want to give us. We are calling out, no screaming out for something more democratic and we are being completely ignored due to political donations and corruption.

    Lenore Taylor is right, we need to have the national debate about political lobbying and donations, that is the real issue in this country.

  224. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 16, 2016 1:07 pm

    Wow! A breach of trust to the sailors and to the nation.

    Sailors sue Australian navy for failing to provide them with trade qualifications:
    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/16/sailors-sue-australian-navy-for-failing-to-provide-them-with-trade-qualifications

  225. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2016 1:12 pm

    Wow! A breach of trust to the sailors and to the nation.

    Yes! KL! But more than that … a breach of contract! Press ganging 21st Century style!

    National Service was bad enough in the 20th Century! No contract – just jail if you said no!

  226. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2016 1:13 pm

    Lenore Taylor is right, we need to have the national debate about political lobbying and donations, that is the real issue in this country.

    Too many Robber Barons (or wannabes) and not enough political talent!

  227. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 16, 2016 1:20 pm

    The left is having a moment everywhere … except in Australia.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/12/the-left-is-having-a-moment-everywhere-except-in-australia

    Nothing will change after the Stuart Robert furore dies down. It never does
    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/11/nothing-will-change-after-the-stuart-robert-furore-dies-down-it-never-does

    …All party fundraisers hate being forced to effectively beg for funds and, in honest moments, they all know that leaves them potentially dangerously beholden to corporate interests and, in the case of the Labor party, to the union movement. But the fear that any change might advantage an opponent – and the risk of a public backlash against higher rates of public funding, which is the only possible funding source – has stymied reform for decades.

    They also know the solution is to increase public funding, reduce the threshold for disclosure of donations and require that they be disclosed as they are given, rather than in an annual dump.

    Until they actually change the system every passing “scandal” about donations or political patronage is just one more good reason for voters to be cynical…

  228. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 16, 2016 1:38 pm

    The left is having a moment everywhere … except in Australia.

    Looks like we are heading for a more unjust world where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

  229. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2016 2:30 pm

    Looks like we are heading for a more unjust world where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

    When NAB gleefully declare sucking $1.5 billion out the economy in three months I think we are already …

  230. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 16, 2016 2:54 pm

    If we can do this for cars, why can’t we have access to US netflix, software and all the other stuff that is currently geoblocked because of…basically, us being australians. Why do we stand for such racism?

    Australians to bypass car dealers and import directly from Japan and UK
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/10/australians-to-bypass-car-dealers-and-import-directly-from-japan-and-uk

    …Australians will be able to bypass local car dealerships and directly import cheaper new and almost-new cars from Japan and the UK under changes to be announced by the federal government on Wednesday.

    Legal restrictions will be removed to allow drivers to buy a new car once every two years, providing it is no more than 12 months old and has no more than 500km on the odometer.

    The changes will apply from 2018, when local car manufacturing is scheduled to end, and according to the Australian Automotive Association, will push prices down…

    The government’s car crash of an automotive policy
    http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-governments-car-crash-of-an-automotive-policy-20160110-gm32yn.html

    IPA adds to its wishlist, and almost half are on Abbott’s cards
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/09/18/ipa-adds-to-its-wishlist-and-almost-half-are-on-abbotts-cards/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

    Let them (journalists) all come (to Nauru)
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2016/02/16/let-them-journalists-all-come-to-nauru/

  231. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 16, 2016 3:19 pm

    Why inequality matters, we’re not all able to contribute to the debate equally. Money talks and democracy walks.

    Property sector gears up, but who speaks for the victims of negative gearing?
    [crikey daily mail]

    …Today’s Australian Financial Review offers not one, not two, but three separate pieces attacking the proposal. Michael Bleby warned “house prices could suffer greater falls than anything seen in the past decade under Labor’s proposed tax changes”. …

    …And the property sector has gone hard. The Property Council of Australia (PCA), alarmed by talk the government might be looking at negative gearing, had already issued a warning aimed at marginal seat MPs on both sides, intended to intimidate politicians into keeping their hands off the cherished deduction. And since Labor’s announcement on Saturday, it has, according to its own website, pumped out nine op-eds or interviews attacking the policy…

    …Those who stand to benefit from curbs on negative gearing — younger people, lower-income earners who currently face a very unlevel playing field in competing with investors to buy housing — don’t have any powerful industry peak bodies to speak for them, and no newspapers to campaign on their behalf…

  232. February 16, 2016 6:22 pm

    AO,,,,,The `gaming` of the micro parties is what saved us and our economy from the liberal party’s austerity(#exactly!!) and cronyism, I am so glad that some of them turned out to be very sensible(#agree!!), ricky muir and glenn lazarus off the top of my head, even clive helped us,,,,,

    #wang has both teams squirting because he wants a federal-icac, Lambie gives`em butt-hurt over the drugs/ice problem and neglect of adf-staff, quite frankly l`d prefer the system to `game` against the big-teams to continue providing `thorns` in their arses from `small` players:-)

  233. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 16, 2016 7:03 pm

    The ‘gaming’ of the micro parties is what saved us and our economy from the liberal party’s austerity

    And what is wrong with austerity? And how else would you get the budget back into surplus?

    You people just do not care about debt do you. Well one day the ALP’s reckless spending will came back to hurt. The Coalition tried to do something in their first budget but were called mean and nasty.

    Looks like we will have deficits for the next 20 years.

  234. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 16, 2016 7:10 pm

    …and welcome to our very own Catching Up…

    ,,,,,, and ######

  235. February 16, 2016 7:25 pm

    tinfoil`osy,,,,,,,,Near the end, at around 1:03:30 Tony Jones asks Steyn about possible results of the US election. Listen to the reaction from the carefully-chosen-for-its-balance studio audience when Steyn mentions a Bernie Sanders presidency.,,,,,,,

    #as predicted tinfoil`osy returned to bleat about `fluff` and NOT `content`, tinfoil`osy has switched his fluff from `reception` to `reaction`, but it`s all fluff.

    tinfoil`osy,,,,,the reaction from the carefully-chosen-for-its-balance studio audience,,,,,

    #Audience: ALP 33%, Coalition 42%, Greens 13%, Other 5%, Unspecified 6%

    #or if ya`prefer, Teabag-42, Not-teabag-58, (and in tinfoil`osy-land, anything less than 100% looney, looney teabag is NOT `balanced`)

    tinfoil`osy,,,,,,studio audience when Steyn mentions a Bernie Sanders presidency.,,,,,

    #which really just shows steyn is a blot-like teabag dcikhead for thinking the whole audience is made-up of teabag-cranks when he tried to `slur` bernie and it back-fired, resulting in audience-cheers. Suck it up, oh so predictable teabag, and as predicted, you don`t have anything to say on the topics/discussion. Just fluff.

  236. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 16, 2016 7:55 pm

    Catching Up –

    ######

    Good point!!

  237. February 16, 2016 8:24 pm

    l see `our` cat-licks are struggling to say anything relevant today #as.usual

  238. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2016 8:29 pm

    You people just do not care about debt do you.

    Most folk have debt in their lives … the problem is that greedy Robber Barons are not paying their fair share of that debt … and being protected by the Liberal Party and its ignorant supporters …

    The Coalition tried to do something in their first budget but were called mean and nasty.

    ‘Cause they ARE!

  239. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 16, 2016 8:33 pm

    the problem is that greedy Robber Barons are not paying their fair share of that debt

    So what happened? Costello ran 9 surplus budgets out of 11.

  240. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2016 8:35 pm

    So what are the MAJOR SHAREHOLDERS doing … ???

    EVEN by the standards that have come to be associated with the 7-Eleven wage, this is incredible.

    Pakistani student Ahmed must have thought a decimal point was missing when he got his pay packet from the convenience store chain. It worked out to be just 47 cents an hour.

    That’s right — cents.

    According to Maurice Blackburn Lawyers, the young man put in 685 hours over a two-month period, including weekends, and was paid just $325 for his efforts.

    It’s the latest shocking detail to emerge in the wage scandal that sparked a Senate Inquiry, due to report at the end of this month, which has highlighted systemic exploitation of workers on temporary visas.

    For Ahmed, it meant having to work almost eight hours just to afford a luxury we all take for granted: a $3.70 cup of coffee.

    When he complained about his pay, his boss threatened to report him to authorities for working more hours than his visa allowed.

    “He was blackmailing me — he says, ‘I have seen you working somewhere else and you are under my observation so don’t to be smart with me’,” Ahmed told AAP.

    “He wanted me to keep working with him as a slave without being paid anything.”

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/virtual-slave-paid-47-cents-an-hour-to-work-at-7eleven-store/news-story/3ffc332f3fbd0c5e42fe561690d8bd54

    So where is the call for a Royal Commission into shonky business practices … ?

    Plenty of union reps to call as witnesses I’ll bet!!!

    Liberal Hypocrisy at Work!

  241. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2016 8:39 pm

    Fairfax Media can reveal Mr Turnbull has shares in two international investment funds that invest in Japanese conglomerate Seven & I Holdings.

    Seven & I’s major subsidiary is Seven-Eleven Japan, which is the parent company of 7-Eleven in the United States. The US company in turn licences the billionaire Withers and Barlow family, who own Australia’s scandal-plagued stores.

    As a Senate committee prepares to probe the wages exploitation scandal on Friday, Labor has claimed the investment raises concerns Mr Turnbull must address.

    “He has not uttered a single word of support for these workers and people have been legitimately asking why?” said Lisa Chesters, the chair of Labor’s Fair Work Caucus Committee.

    A landmark investigation by Fairfax Media and the ABC last August found workers, most of them international students, were being massively underpaid and payrolls were being doctored. The revelations triggered a series of corporate resignations and ongoing investigations.

    The Turnbulls typically limit their investments to offshore managed funds where they have no control or influence over investment decisions. But Mr Turnbull has in the past disposed of investments deemed politically or morally difficult.

    In April last year he divested his shares in a fund that was investing in tobacco company Philip Morris International after coming under media scrutiny. He also instructed his investment adviser not to invest in any funds with an exposure to tobacco in the future.

    Unlike many politicians, Mr Turnbull chooses not to invest through a blind trust, giving him a greater level of scrutiny over his own investments.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/02/10/ministers-dropping-like-flies-around-malcolm-turnbull/#comment-122959

    We need a PM with NO hidden agenda!

  242. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 16, 2016 9:17 pm

    Catching Up –

    #####

    ;;Brilli.,ant,,,,,

  243. Tony permalink
    February 16, 2016 9:25 pm

    Why waste your energy, ToM?

    Just ignore it and deprive it of oxygen.

  244. February 16, 2016 9:38 pm

    via-AO,,,,,,directly import cheaper new and almost-new cars from Japan and the UK under changes to be announced by the federal government on Wednesday,,,,,,

    #hey teebz, l smell a ponzi scheme, the two major `manufacturing-conglomerates` (shared-factories and `akin`-models) are in china and thailand #uk?`n japan?

  245. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 16, 2016 9:46 pm

    ###
    “it” is.my personal#troll and# it needs to be re_minded that it,,,has##to.provide#some,,, entertainment.;;;some.tim.es,,,,,,

  246. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 16, 2016 9:49 pm

    #####Catchi_ng U.p;

  247. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 16, 2016 11:39 pm

    Coalition could clean up in Senate if vote reform deal is finalised
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/coalition-could-clean-up-in-senate-if-vote-reform-deal-is-finalised-20160216-gmvpqz.html#ixzz40Kj3NIN3

    …The Turnbull government would seize a rare, absolute majority in the Senate if it finalises a deal on voting reform and calls a double-dissolution election, according to two experts on the preference system.
    The Greens – who are negotiating with the Coalition to end “preference harvesting” among minor parties – would likely lose two of its current 10 senators if it agrees to support reforms and both houses of Parliament are dissolved…

  248. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 17, 2016 2:18 am

    Hand the power of preferences back to the people
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-11/green-hand-the-power-of-preferences-back-to-the-people/4951020

    12/9/2013

    …Yesterday I dug through my scrapbooks to find past articles by me going back nearly two decades warning about how the loose rules on the registration of political parties, as well as the use of ‘above the line’ group preference ticket voting, would lead to giant ballot papers and distorted election outcomes…

    …Stopping over-lapping party membership is also important. David Leyonhjelm, set to be elected as the Liberal Democrat Senator for NSW, is the registered office of both the Liberal Democrats and the Outdoor Recreation Party (Stop the Greens). Members of his party also seem to be closely associated with the Smokers Rights Party…

    …Punishing minor parties is the wrong approach as it addresses only the symptom of the Senate’s electoral malaise, not its cause. That cause is group ticket voting preferences and the tight control on preferences by political parties both major and minor.

    The real solution is one that hands the power over preferences back to the voters. The Senate should be elected to reflect the will of the electorate, not the arranged deals of a few backroom operators…

  249. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 17, 2016 2:24 am

  250. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 17, 2016 4:55 am

    Apparently to get any benefit from a negatively geared property the house you purchase has to go up in value 5% every year. In the major cities this most probably is true but outside the major cities this is not true.

  251. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 8:23 am

    The government this week pointed out that most people that negatively gear property earn less than A$100,000. This is perhaps less surprising when you consider that so do almost 90% of the population: $100,000 a year puts you well in upper income territory.
    …………………………
    People who negatively gear have lower taxable incomes because they are negatively gearing. This explains the high proportion of people with no taxable income owning loss making property investments – their declared losses are so large they have reduced their taxable incomes to zero.

    https://theconversation.com/three-myths-on-negative-gearing-the-housing-industry-wants-you-to-believe-54732

  252. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 17, 2016 8:31 am

    The government this week pointed out that most people that negatively gear property earn less than A$100,000.

    If that is true how to they afford to buy an investment property in the first place?

  253. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 8:46 am

    If that is true how to they afford to buy an investment property in the first place?

    Read the rest of my comment, or perhaps even the article, for an insight
    A hint

    People who negatively gear have lower taxable incomes because they are negatively gearing. This explains the high proportion of people with no taxable income owning loss making property investments – their declared losses are so large they have reduced their taxable incomes to zero.

  254. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 9:28 am

    The ALP have not yet announced that they are abolishing negative gearing on ALL investments not just housing. Wait for that to get a bit more publicity.

  255. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 9:57 am

    Perhaps we should just say to everyone from 1 July 2017 everybody gets a maximum salary sacrifice allowance of say $35,000 p.a. for their annual tax return which can be used to contribute from your pre tax salary into super or can be used up for negative gearing or a mixture of both.

    However if its used to negatively gear then that asset becomes a “retirement asset” which on sale must be contributed entirely into your super fund or into another investment property which becomes another “retirement asset”.

    Goodbye speculators !

  256. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 17, 2016 10:35 am

    Read the rest of my comment, or perhaps even the article, for an insight
    A hint

    I did but it was not clear whether it was referring to gross or net income. The second part of the article was obviously referring to net income but it is not clear if this number ($100,000) is gross or net income

    The government this week pointed out that most people that negatively gear property earn less than A$100,000.

    Is the number $100,000 gross or net?

  257. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 17, 2016 11:03 am

    The middle road with Michelle Grattan on senate voting.

    Changes to Senate voting may be needed but should not be rushed:
    https://theconversation.com/changes-to-senate-voting-may-be-needed-but-should-not-be-rushed-54849

    …While the government boasts about engaging the community on the tax issue, it has avoided public debate as it seeks to muster the numbers for voting changes that would have sweeping implications for the Senate’s future composition.

    Yet it is not too much of a stretch to argue that the latter is as important as the former…

    …If the government hastens the legislation, it might encounter a backlash. People don’t want “gaming”. But nor do they necessarily want fast-tracked changes that are not properly aired. Yes, there was a parliamentary inquiry, but that was a long time ago – the situation is different if change is imminent.

    Some voters might take the view that the government is just trying to suppress the little voices, stopping the likes of those pesky senators who prevented a Medicare co-payment and the deregulation of university fees from getting elected in future. It could turn from a debate about the electoral system reflecting the voters’ wishes into one about an attack on the Senate’s watchdog role…

    I am always suspicious of something that all pollies are united in implementing, there is generally a lot of self interest involved.

    I would like to hear all of the arguments and consequences of the change from the experts who know what it really means, not the spin and sell campaign.

    So yes, let’s have the public debate, not another quickie legislation being rushed through without real scrutiny which may have long lasting consequences for all of us. I, for one, have been pleased that ricky muir, glenn lazarus, jackie lambie and clive/wang were looking out for us and aren’t they more representative of the people in the ‘people’s house’ than career political staffers/union hacks/corporate hacks?

    …However if its used to negatively gear then that asset becomes a “retirement asset” which on sale must be contributed entirely into your super fund or into another investment property which becomes another “retirement asset”.
    Goodbye speculators ! …

    That’s not a bad suggestion walrus and i appreciate that you know what you’re talking about. I also know that you have previously said that NG is a rort.

    Why does ‘everyone’ and i assume that you mean the people who can afford to invest a lazy $35,000, need to have taxpayer funded assistance?
    If they can afford $35K to invest in the first place, why don’t they invest it using the normal channels available to them? Why do they need to NG their investment?

    No trick question, I am fairly ignorant of the mechanisms involved, but think we need to stop the blow out in ‘middle class welfare’ that causes such damage to the budget/deficit.

  258. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 11:25 am

    “…we need to stop the blow out in ‘middle class welfare’ that causes such damage to the budget/deficit….”

    No one can cut anything so we phase stuff out. As children become older they no longer need childcare etc. Also we freeze stuff at current levels and let inflation eat away at MC Welfare.

    Lets start by limiting child assistance for everything to 2 kids only from 1 July 2017. It’s cheaper to import skilled people than to create them. And for Dogs sake get rid of Family Tax Benefit B ASAP.

    Households on over $250,000 per annum should get zilch from the Government. And yes cut the Medical Rebate for them as well.

    “I also know that you have previously said that NG is a rort.”

    Yep………..when people have multiple houses its really ridiculous. I think we need to encourage retirement savings and NG should only be available in that circumstance.

    We need to approach NG and say OK how can we make it work from a public policy perspective i.e. getting as many people off the pension in the future as we can.

    The maximum that an over 50 yo can contribute to super is $35K hence my figure. Plus it allows people to have a diverse asset spread of property and Super (which is generally shares and cash generally).

  259. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 11:29 am

    “Why do they need to NG their investment?”

    It effectively gives them the same tax shelter as Superannuation but converts it when they sell the property to a capital gain taxed at a 50% discount rate and they get to keep the money themselves rather than locking it away in Super until they reach whatever age they can retrieve it at.

  260. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 11:46 am

    “I am fairly ignorant of the mechanisms involved”

    Its about leverage. You buy an apartment for $100,000 . You put in $10,000 and your borrow $90,000.

    3 years later the property is worth $120,000. In 3 years your own $10,000 is now $20,000. You repay the bank $90,000 and walk away with $20,000.

    You keep the capital gain not the bank. But then you pay tax at a marginal rate of say 40% which gets a 50% capital gains discount so instead of tax at $8,000 you only pay $4,000. Of course their are rent incomes and interest expenses too complicate it beyond my very simple example but essentially its about leveraging your own money using the bank’s money

  261. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 11:56 am

    its about leveraging your own money using the bank’s money

    but subsidised by taxpayers

    Nice work if you can get it.

  262. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 12:02 pm

    “……..but subsidised by taxpayers….”

    Perhaps but so are superannuation salary sacrifice contributions. Are you advocating that we should abolish those as well ?

  263. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 17, 2016 12:06 pm

    I think with NG dishonest people are getting a dishonest advantage. But these dishonest people come from both parties.

    If interest rates go back up to 8%, the dishonest people are going to get screwed.

  264. February 17, 2016 12:27 pm

    If interest rates go back up to 8%, we’re all fcuked.

  265. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 12:33 pm

    “If interest rates go back up to 8%, we’re all fcuked.”

    You’ll be waiting a while.

    I believe we are going through a period of financial repression when interest rates are so low inflationary pressures whittle down government debt over a period of years therefore deleveraging the economy. It takes time. Its similar to the delevagig that occurred post WW2.

    This one first started in 2009 and still continues. The USA will lift and raise rates back and forth over a very narrow range over the next few years.

    I cannot see 8% in the next 5 years plus more………perhaps out to 10

  266. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 17, 2016 12:33 pm

    What i hate about this NG thing is that is suspect lots of people from both sides of politics own rental properties. Lefties working in the PS in Canberra do not own rental properties? Please?

  267. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 17, 2016 12:35 pm

    It’s very complex and complicated I think, I like all your thoughts walrus even though i know some people [a lot of people] do miss out on the taxpayer funded, get rich quick scheme.

    It seems that everyone is trying to get rich quick, neoliberal ideology is rampant.

    …Households on over $250,000 per annum should get zilch from the Government. And yes cut the Medical Rebate for them as well…

    Yes!

    I’ve seen ‘the battlers’ being rolled out by the vested interests.

    What gets me about NG though is the fact that the income received is not earned in any way by the individual. It is purely a taxpayer funded tax avoidance measure that is gifted to some who can afford to use it and that’s wrong imo. Why should some get to reduce their wage [and tax liability] through NG of investments and laughingly become a lower wage earner, a ‘battler’?

    The country needs more people paying more tax, not less. If people did not get these tax avoidance measures [funded by poorer taxpayers] if they paid their fair share on what they actually earn, we could have the better services and health/education systems that we are calling for, we could have an NBN and an NDIS too.

    Fiddling with negative gearing isn’t revolutionary tax reform
    http://enpassant.com.au/2016/02/15/fiddling-with-negative-gearing-isnt-revolutionary-tax-reform/

    …Labor claims this will see an increase in housing supply, putting downward pressure on housing prices and rents. Well, maybe, but that will if it happens be a very long term result. Second it addresses a tax advantage to the rich by giving them another one. Third, there is no guarantee that it will actually work. And fourth, it is based on the idea that the market needs just a little tweaking to make the world better for new home buyers and renters.

    Why is there a housing shortage? One of the reasons is State governments’ withdrawal from or lesser involvement in building public housing. If Labor were serious about addressing the high price of housing and the impact this is having on both first home buyers and renters it would begin a program of state housing that addressed the needs of working class Australians. Such a program could be funded by taxing the rich capitalist class who benefit from having a well housed, rested working class. Labor won’t do that because it is wedded to the market and market ‘solutions’. That marriage explains its mickey mouse negative gearing proposals…

  268. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 12:43 pm

    “What gets me about NG though is the fact that the income received is not earned in any way by the individual.”

    KL you can NG shares as well. In which case any dividends they pay are treated the same as rent

  269. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 12:48 pm

    “Why should some get to reduce their wage [and tax liability] ”

    OK I look at it as lifting the burden upon government in future to give them a pension. Deferring tax now defers government spending in the future.

    Its only really a rort if they keep the profit and it does nothing to provide a better retirement.

    So I say limit NG and require it to be a “protected asset”

  270. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:05 pm

    Perhaps but so are superannuation salary sacrifice contributions.

    Are you referring to compulsory super? if so, how so?

    If not, then they can go the way of the dodo too?

  271. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:06 pm

  272. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:10 pm

    So I say limit NG and require it to be a “protected asset”

    I can’t disagree with that.

  273. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:18 pm

    It appears morrison is talking his way through the time set aside for questions at the press club

    Not that I’d have much confidence in their questions to begin with

  274. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:18 pm

    “If not, then they can go the way of the dodo too?”

    That is the usual ridiculous answer I would expect from you.

    With you its a class warfare thing with absolutely no regard as to what you want the desired outcome to be. If NG is used to fund retirements then thats a good outcome. Sure limit it to a sert amount p.a. but dont do the stoopid Shorten thing of limiting it to new housing.

    Under your “Non Plan” how are people going to fund their retirement ?

    The SGL was never going to be enough for people in their 30s back in the 1990s when it was first introduced. And even if it was raised to 15% it would be a pretty basic existence for those entering now. Oh hang on heaven forbid anyone being better off than anyone eklse in your World of Mediocrity

    If people want to be independent of government then give them an incentive so they wont draw the pension. Once they get over a certain lump sum then start taxing their future pension at a concessional rate.

    You just continue to dwell in this fantasy land of zero incentive.

  275. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:22 pm

    Under your “Non Plan” how are people going to fund their retirement ?

    hint

    Are you referring to compulsory super?

    Why should people who can afford to invest be subsidised by the Government while those who cannot miss out altogether?

  276. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:26 pm

    “Why should people who can afford to invest be subsidised by the Government…….”

    What dont you get……..???????????…………………they wont be drawing a future full pension or any pension at all. In fact if they have enough retirement income then tax it as well

    Added to which people are living longer so they are a burden on future taxpayers for longer

  277. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:28 pm

    they wont be drawing a future full pension or any pension at all.

    History tells us otherwise. They will arrange their situation to maximise that return.

  278. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:31 pm

  279. February 17, 2016 1:33 pm

    Somebody mentioned `8%`? So there are new polls on blib?

  280. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:38 pm

    “Why should people who can afford to invest be subsidised by the Government…….

    That’s what i think as well.
    Plus these people do nothing to earn that taxpayer funded perk, it is just given to them and they are the first to sling off at others less fortunate as losers or lazy, the downward envy doesn’t look at their own terrific taxpayer funded welfare.

    Wouldn’t it be more fair to everyone equally if compulsory superannuation was made more generous? Nobody is left behind in that way and it doesn’t depend on wealth or some people getting something that others don’t.

  281. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:41 pm

    “History tells us otherwise.”

    Now that’s a throw away line if there was ever one………….What “History” are you on about ?

    And I suggest you read this……………………..

    https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/age-pension/income-and-asset-tests

  282. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 17, 2016 1:46 pm

    Even dole recipients are forced to work for their welfare with ‘work for the dole’ schemes, the NG lot do nothing.

    Are they the real bludgers in our society?

    Why do they get more generous welfare for nothing? They can even reduce their income on the back of their NG and then pay even less tax for the services that govt provides for their demands.

  283. February 17, 2016 1:47 pm

    smh,,,,,veteran players in minor party preference negotiations, forecasts the Coalition would win 40 Senate seats .. a gain of seven .. while Labor would remain anchored at 25 under the proposed changes being sought by the government,,,,,

    #Look how stupid they are armchair, it won`t even benefit teabag-lite, just the zombies

    +

    smh,,,,,Overall, the Coalition would have a two seat majority and would not have to negotiate with any other parties. The last time that happened, the Howard government passed the controversial Workchoices laws before being punted from office in 2007.,,,,,

    #So now we`ll have blib`s turkeys `demanding` xmas, what a bunch of dumb-fcuks

  284. February 17, 2016 2:12 pm

    blubbers,,,,,,I believe we are going through a period of financial repression when interest rates are so low,,,,,#agree

    blubbers,,,,,inflationary pressures whittle down government debt over a period of years therefore deleveraging the economy,,,,,

    #wrong, 21% `jobseeking` which means none/too-little `super`, thus need govt-pension,

    #if no pension then crime, which costs 100K per-prisoner today

    #we are following the detroit-model, things still to get worse

  285. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 2:17 pm

    And I suggest you read this…………………….. 😉

    https://thesmartmoney.com.au/how-to-increase-your-pension/

  286. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 3:25 pm

  287. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 3:44 pm

  288. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 3:53 pm

    “And I suggest you read this……………………..”

    You are dealing with pathetically small amounts. And besides if you “gift” something you lose control over it.

    $30,000 over 5 years ………….whoopee do !

    and this is not advice its just plain common sense that Centrelink even advises……..

    ” When you provide the value of non-investment assets such as cars, caravans and household contents to Centrelink, you only need to provide an estimate of the market value.”…………..D’oh

    And contributing to a younger spouse …”.They would also need to consider taxation and the maximum super contribution limits.”

    Funeral expenses..????????……..Oh for fucks sake………………….What $10,000 max ?

    So you actually have no substantive “History”……………………you just make stuff up then go looking for piddling examples.

    Nothing you have linked to is so substantial as to support your pathetic Class Warfare argument……………..as usual

  289. February 17, 2016 3:58 pm

    “Nothing you have linked to is so substantial as to support your pathetic Class Warfare argument.”

    “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

    ~ Warren Buffet

  290. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 4:02 pm

    CLASS WARFARE

    It’s on!

    Interesting how much you had to repudiate for something that wasn’t there 😉

  291. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 4:11 pm

    Oh…….I see so reb supports getting rid of negative gearing ?????????????

  292. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 4:12 pm

    “Interesting how much you had to repudiate for something that wasn’t there”

    Like I said piddling examples

  293. February 17, 2016 4:48 pm

    Oh…….I see so reb supports getting rid of negative gearing ?????????????”

    Heaven forbid!

  294. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 4:59 pm

    “Interesting how much you had to repudiate for something that wasn’t there”

    Yeah………I like to give a bit of detail………unlike you who just states……..

    ….“History tells us otherwise.”

  295. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2016 5:20 pm

    Just back from Gold Class … coffee was fkn awful … we watched …

    … dah-da-dadada-dah-dah-dadada-dah-da … dadada-da …

    Same successful format … same professional build … a bit more of the story added … good couple of hours entertainment …

    The Minister: ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐

    TB: ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐

  296. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2016 5:27 pm

    Nice to see people talking about the removal of parts of Negative Gearing

    What’s the real purpose of negative gearing again?

  297. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 5:27 pm

    “… dah-da-dadada-dah-dah-dadada-dah-da … dadada-da … ”

    ?????????????????????????????????????

  298. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 5:28 pm

    “What’s the real purpose of negative gearing again?”

    That’s what needs to be talked about.

    I say we look at it only as an retirement vehicle.

  299. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 5:46 pm

    unlike you who just states……..

    A lot of repudiation of specific points then that don’t just say “History tells us otherwise.” 😉

  300. February 17, 2016 5:52 pm

    TB,,,,,What`s the real purpose of negative gearing again?,,,,,

    #The purpose is to enrich shiny arsed bean-counters via their wealthy clients by enforcing a tax-benefit for the wealthy clients to obtain multiple properties at a price the bottom third of society cannot afford. #teabags

  301. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2016 5:58 pm

    I say we look at it only as an retirement vehicle.

    If you do then it needs to be limited claim annually same for all … number of houses limited (say tw0 investment one home) … new construction only (economic boost – apprentices, supplies, civil engineering, hardware supplies, etc etc growth in so many areas) …

    … encourage more satellite towns … in 2016 people do not need to be located close to a CBD …

    Enhances the Multiplier Effect … boosts economy …

    Those with NG here are old enough to be g’fathers so OK … but it really needs to go …

    I’m sure I read that Canadians can claim interest on their tax for their first home loan … now that’s a better deal …

    Our economy is slowing because too much fiat wealth is being sucked out of it … (ie ain’t trickle when she’ gone) … Vacuum Economics don’t work …

    Some pretty interesting stuff above Wally … useful for comment too … as for the comment about Centrelink and non income assets – car (red book price), contents – nominal $5,000 (I put $10,000 and it was reduced to $5K – noice), caravan or boat Gumtree … its actually difficult to put a “price” on used goods … problem with my Santa Fe is that its now over three years old and still holds the price I paid for it new!

    The more I listen to Morrison the more I think he is way out of his depth … it had to happen eventually when you used so much as the resident troubleshooter … and I don’t think TurnAbbout has much of an idea … held back by the rich and famous on their case, methinks …

  302. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2016 6:02 pm

    ?????????????????????????????????????

  303. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 17, 2016 6:21 pm

    The more I listen to Morrison the more I think he is way out of his depth

    Name me any minister who has any expertise in the area they are in charge of? How many defense ministers know anything about the military?

    What you want is somebody with wisdom who can make the right decisions in an area he has no expertise in.

    I remember Brendan Nelson was condemned for ordering the Super Hornetts. Tim Dunlop ran a blog on it. Now everybody is saying what a great decision it was.

  304. Walrus permalink
    February 17, 2016 6:26 pm

    “”If you do then it needs to be limited claim annually same for all … number of houses limited (say tw0 investment one home) ………………

    That’s what I’m saying above except I dont dwell on the number of properties just the $

    But I dont agree to restrict to new housing only otherwise you fundamentally split the housing market whereby new buyers (who can largely only afford inner city apartments) are competing with investors for housing stock. In in the ölder market”you only have new homebuyers/or upgraders/downgraders.

    The value of old housing falls but new housing prices increase. A really distorted market

    Give people a total of $35,000 (and you can index it) and they can choose to either use it for NG or Super or a mix of both and that gives also gives them diversification. Anything over $35,000 no deduction.

    That way everybody stays reasonably happy and only the really rich complain.

  305. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2016 6:54 pm

    Give people a total of $35,000 (and you can index it)

    Why “give” anything … my generation didn’t have any “gifts” … and we were “lucky” apparently …

    If you’re concerned about super … increase to the 12% …

    Gotta go … g’son arrived wants to “teach” me Impossible Creatures …

  306. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 6:58 pm

    What you want is somebody with wisdom

    Bad luck then 😦

  307. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 7:02 pm

    But I dont agree to restrict to new housing only otherwise you fundamentally split the housing market

    Yes, that’s an issue that I’d like to see Labor explain away.

  308. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 17, 2016 7:05 pm

    Bad luck then

    Who gives a stuff what Morrison says. What we want is for him to make the correct decisions.

    That is something Wayne Swan was not capable of doing.

  309. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2016 8:00 pm

    TurnAbbout Speak …

    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said Wednesday that Australia had been less imaginative than it should have been when it came to funding infrastructure.

    Just fkn DO something!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    the literal quote from ScoMo. Actually gibberish.

    I agree …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Yes, that’s an issue that I’d like to see Labor explain away.

    Why … there IS a housing shortage … and rents ARE too high … why shouldn’t we make it easier for people to OWN a home rather than support INVESTORS …

    Always remember this … we all need a HOME … only investors need HOUSES …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Who gives a stuff what Morrison says. What we want is for him to make the correct decisions. That is something Wayne Swan was not capable of doing.

    Kneels always conveniently forgets (I used to think he deliberately did it) … but the brain is floats above a flat earth head …

  310. Tom R permalink
    February 17, 2016 8:26 pm

    That is something Wayne Swan was not capable of doing.

    You mean The Worlds Greatest Treasurer? 😉

    Apparently, scomo thinks removing negative gearing is a tax:shock:

  311. Walrus permalink
    February 18, 2016 8:48 am

    “……Why “give” anything … my generation didn’t have any “gifts” … and we were “lucky” apparently … ”

    And that’s why our Pension bill is so high.

    How about we take away your Health Card.

    I’m sure you’d be OK with that.

  312. Tom R permalink
    February 18, 2016 8:56 am

    Peter Martin highlights why Labor is targeting new houses in their Negative Gearing changes

    But they’ve been increasing the stock of houses, right? Not much lately. Back the 1980s 1 in every 5 new investor loans was used to build a home. Now it’s 1 in every 35.

    We’re told that negative gearers are at least increasing the supply of rental housing, and many believe they are. But by pushing up prices and outbidding would-be owner-occupiers they are also helping create the supply of tenants to rent those properties to. They are often renting to people they have outbid.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/capital-gains-tax-theres-more-than-one-way-to-kill-negative-gearing-20160216-gmvict.html#ixzz40SsAeOpC
    Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

    He does however offer up a more elegant and seemingly far simpler alternative, don’t allow negative gearing to be calculated in the taxation mix. I think he might be on to something. Will the libs grab this and run?

    Government toughened up more than HECS. Quietly, it outlawed negative gearing in the calculation of the Medicare surcharge, the Private Health Insurance Rebate, the Seniors and Pensioners Tax Offset and the Higher Income Superannuation Charge.

    It would be dead easy to do it for the calculation of tax, and it would be consistent. Taxpayers would be able to lose as much as they liked renting out properties. They would even be able to use the losses to offset profits from other investments and carry them forward to offset any profits when they eventually sold. But, as in Britain, Canada, the US, France, Germany, Japan and most of the nations with which we compare ourselves, they wouldn’t be able to use real estate losses to cut the taxable income from their salaries.

  313. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 18, 2016 9:13 am

    Perhaps the govt could make the home loan tax deductible as well. They do that in the USA

  314. Tom R permalink
    February 18, 2016 9:18 am

    There are a lot of things the Government could do

    this mob seem to be sticking with #waffle

  315. TB Queensland permalink
    February 18, 2016 10:27 am

    And that’s why our Pension bill is so high.

    That’s why I paid HIGHER taxes … all my life …

    And on OECD comparison age pension isn’t “so high” …

    http://www.oecd.org/pensions/public-pensions/OECDPensionsAtAGlance2013.pdf

    I started work in 1963/4 I asked about the sytem changing in 1992 … (I began my own super in 1977)

    How about we take away your Health Card.

    Because you wouldn’t just take the health benefits (they already are BTW) from me … but thousands of Australians who have earned the right …

    How about we take away:

    ► Multi-national Tax Avoidance
    ► Negative Gearing
    ► Trust Funds
    ► Super Tax for Rich
    ► Pollie’s Perqs
    ► Ex-Pollies Perqs

    All things that “give” to the rich 1% … paid for by the bottom 50% … but who do you want to “take” from …mmmmmmmmm

    Demonstrates the mindset of Liberal supporters …

    If the government wants to take it away it will …

    Morrison is stumped this time … because he won’t look at the list above … puppets!

    And I have plenty of experience with government controlling people’s lives …

    BTW those $3.00 osteo Panadol are now $12.00 … chemist warehouse have a special deal at the moment for Seniors Card but NOT pension card … go figure … ?

  316. TB Queensland permalink
    February 18, 2016 10:30 am

    We’re told that negative gearers are at least increasing the supply of rental housing, and many believe they are. But by pushing up prices and outbidding would-be owner-occupiers they are also helping create the supply of tenants to rent those properties to. They are often renting to people they have outbid.

    And do absolutely nothing to the economy … it stagnates! Pushing wealth around does nothing … especially if it also sucks money from taxpayers via a negative gearing …

    Aimed at new housing it will actually stimulate the economy …

    It really is a no-brainer … unless you receive negative gearing welfare!

  317. Tom R permalink
    February 18, 2016 10:33 am

    dunno what will happen here, will prob only last a couple of minutes?

    https://www.periscope.tv/w/1BRKjOkyEzeGw

  318. Tom R permalink
    February 18, 2016 10:40 am

  319. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 18, 2016 10:59 am

  320. Tom R permalink
    February 18, 2016 11:18 am

    So, our dpm (still scary acknowledging that) finally fesses up, kind off, that his staff changed the Hansard without his knowledge.

    #bullshit

  321. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 18, 2016 11:28 am

  322. Tom R permalink
    February 18, 2016 11:45 am

    That #waffle lead recovery doesn’t appear to be panning out too well does it

  323. TB Queensland permalink
    February 18, 2016 12:00 pm

    Mr Harris will call for a comprehensive review, arguing it is probably the only way to “generate the necessary public understanding that change may be needed”.

    Mr Harris looks like and sounds like a mean spirited prick to me …

    At our 25th wedding anniversary (held in our backyard in a hired marquee) … my best mate, (known him since I was 12 yo) stood up as MC and said … “We’ve know The Minister and TB since before they were married … and we did some sums the other night … they’ve actually been on holidays a total of ten weeks in 25 years …”

    Guess what we did instead? … worked!

    Three years to pay a block of dirt off to sell for a deposit on a highset chamfer board HOME with a front wall under front. $12,000. Paid off in 11 years sold for $57,000 …

    Lined underneath by, moi! Concreted underneath by, moi! Fenced by moi! Rumpus room built by, moi! Gardens by The Minister! Completely repainted inside and out by, you guessed it!

    Workshop by, moi! So I could work on cars on the weekend and earn an extra quid!

    Paid off in 11 years sold for $57,000 …

    … built present HOME in 1984 … $28,000 land $60,000 house … once again all outside work done by US!

    Last evaluation ten years ago $480,000 … and we live 30km from the CBD …

    Mr Harris – get fucked!

    House prices FLUCTUATE! Try comprehensively reviewing THIS!

    ► Multi-national Tax
    ► Negative Gearing
    ► Trust Funds
    ► Super Tax for Rich
    ► Pollie’s Perqs
    ► Ex-Pollies Perqs

    FFS!

  324. February 18, 2016 12:25 pm

    chortle…

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  325. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 18, 2016 12:30 pm

    Items of interest today.

    The language of deception: How politicians use econobabble to cloud public debate
    https://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/richard-denniss/2016/17/2016/1455683183/language-deception

    …Governments and citizens alike should be concerned about the impact of changes in government policy on businesses. But the notion that Australia, one of the richest countries the world has ever known, can’t change its laws without consulting with “the market” is as absurd as it is alarming. In effect, we are regularly being told by our own leaders that Australia can’t change its laws unless some very rich people, most of whom live in other countries, say it’s okay for us to do so…

    …As JK Galbraith once said, “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness…”

    Way back at the beginning, national ownership was being sold out, this pandering to ‘teh market’ is what is wrong with australia today. I’d like to know how many government ministers profit though share ownership in private companies after they pass legislation. Are they first at the trough?

  326. TB Queensland permalink
    February 18, 2016 1:01 pm

    chortle…

    Guffaw! From me! I always liked Andrew … and I love sarcastic humour! Brilliant!

  327. Tom R permalink
    February 18, 2016 1:31 pm

    more “History tells” 😉

    Retirees with substantial wealth tied up in their homes might soon face face the prospect of losing their pension, the head of the Productivity Commission says.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/make-pensioners-rely-on-home-equity–productivity-commission-chief-20160217-gmwrnk.html#ixzz40TX9zIzr
    Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

  328. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 18, 2016 1:53 pm

    Forget about the last two years in office, the Libs have only existed since Malcolm’s reset, that’s the gist of the spin anyway.

  329. TB Queensland permalink
    February 18, 2016 1:57 pm

    … more “History tells”

    Reason for my “Mr Harris” rant above, TR, after reading KL’s tweet @ 10:59 am above.

    What do they want next … the car? My clothes? My kids? FMD! Does the Robber Barons ever stop! (Don’t answer that!) 😉

  330. TB Queensland permalink
    February 18, 2016 1:58 pm

    The Tories are pantswetting for good reason (in their eyes!)

  331. Tom R permalink
    February 18, 2016 2:24 pm

    That savva article is pure lolstralian

    A month ago, he was yabotlite, now he’s bernielite.

    These muppets are living in the instance of their own instantiation. What a lark

    She even sinks to wallees depth of crying “CLASS WARFARE” The final refuge of the vacuous it seems

  332. Walrus permalink
    February 18, 2016 4:14 pm

    Salim Mehajer will soon be revealed as some sort of Borat type ruse………….surely ?????????

  333. Walrus permalink
    February 18, 2016 4:16 pm

    “……….“CLASS WARFARE” The final refuge of the vacuous it seems……..”

    Your are the one advocating it

  334. Walrus permalink
    February 18, 2016 4:21 pm

    The ALP seem to be very vocal whenever the GST is raised but we never hear Bill Shithead talk about the cost of his ETS and who gets compensation if there is any

  335. Walrus permalink
    February 18, 2016 4:59 pm

    “What do they want next … the car? My clothes? My kids?”

    The car ???????????

    I doubt it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The clothes ??????????

    Are you kidding ?????????

    The kids

    I doubt it

  336. TB Queensland permalink
    February 18, 2016 7:50 pm

    “I’d like to remind the two of you ‘dole bludgers’ that it is I, and indeed people like myself that is paying for that slice of bread and capsule of butter sitting on your kitchen table.”

    Ms Simms, one of those targeted in the letter, said: “He really doesn’t get it does he?

    “It’s just ridiculous, it’s so ridiculous it doesn’t warrant an answer.”

  337. Tony permalink
    February 18, 2016 8:56 pm

    Reason for my “Mr Harris” rant above

    Rant? What rant? It’s just your usual bitter boilerplate. So predictable.

  338. Tom R permalink
    February 18, 2016 9:35 pm

    Your are the one advocating it

    I’m pretty sure the first time we see the phrase is in your post. Maybe you can correct me?

    Calling pointing patently unfair redistribution of taxpayers money “CLASS WAR” is …. well, vacuous at the least.

  339. February 18, 2016 9:37 pm

    “So predictable.”

    Haven’t you got a confession box somewhere that you should be going to.

  340. TB Queensland permalink
    February 18, 2016 10:38 pm

    Oh, here’s that noice ToSY back for snipe … g’day, ToSY … 🙂

  341. February 18, 2016 11:16 pm

    Interesting .

  342. February 19, 2016 5:33 am

    tinfoil`osy,,,,,Rant? What rant? It`s just your usual bitter boilerplate. So predictable.,,,,,#chuckle

    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/02/10/ministers-dropping-like-flies-around-malcolm-turnbull/#comment-122902

  343. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2016 6:24 am

    “Interesting”only in the fact that murdor got it wrong. Again

    I’d say this was more blowback form the Nick Ross saga. More bullying from malcayman, who has personally ended the time of two journalists at aunty due o his displeasure.

    But the real tragedy in this whole shitstorm is ………..

  344. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2016 6:39 am

    Nick Ross also highlights how misleading mark scott was in estimates.

    Media Watch’s criticism of Ross, echoed by Scott in Estimates, was not that he was inaccurate. It was that he had crossed the line from analysis to advocacy.

    ………

    He then used a quote from a 2012 story The Great NBN Fail to illustrate that Ross was an advocate: “If the public knew the truth about the NBN, and believed that the Coalition wanted to destroy it, then Labor would have an unassailable lead in the polls right now… I’m deadly serious.”

    But Media Watch left out this last part of the quote: “However, if the public and the Coalition knew all the facts, then the Coalition could not, in good conscience, oppose it.”

    The story was critical of both the Coalition and Labor, although for different reasons.

    https://newmatilda.com/2016/02/17/false-balance-move-along-nothing-here-says-abc-boss/

    It then goes on to use ulman to show what TRUE political advocacy is like.

  345. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2016 7:26 am

    Looks like this grubmint has become the Brave Sir Robin of finances. It’s all just too hard.

    Skint government hits reverse on bracket creep

    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/skint-government-hits-reverse-on-bracket-creep-20160218-gmxs7s

    Why not just let the kiddies take back over. At least they still have a plan

  346. February 19, 2016 8:28 am

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  347. February 19, 2016 8:33 am

    The alliance of minor parties has drawn up a hit-list of 16 Coalition-held seats to run candidates and attempt to disrupt the government vote.

    ,,,,,,The plan includes right-leaning micro parties going against past practice and urging voters to preference Labor.,,,,,,

    +

    NSW senator David Leyonhjelm, leader of the Liberal Democrats, said if the Turnbull government strikes a deal with the Greens and Nick Xenophon to abolish the group voting ticket – the system that allows micro parties to magnify a small primary vote through preference deals – there would be “no future” for small parties in the Senate.

    ,,,,,Senator Leyonhjelm said minor parties would run “as many candidates as possible” in marginal seats the government will be desperate to hold. “The aim would be to take votes away from them and, to the extent we can, direct preferences to Labor,” he said.,,,,,,

    +

    #it is so funny to see the teabag-like minors spanking greenz+xeno `and` PREFERENCING blib in protest, it is good to see the minor-teabags are benefiting from the `broken-clock` rule

  348. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 19, 2016 8:50 am

    “Why not just let the kiddies take back over. At least they still have a plan”

    Because it was the ALP that created this mess. I doubt we have have a surplus budget for the next 10 years which means we will lose our AAA credit rating meaning we will have to pay higher interests rates on our debt which is mainly in foreign hands.

    Fact is we are stuffed.

  349. Walrus permalink
    February 19, 2016 9:09 am

    “Calling pointing patently unfair redistribution of taxpayers money”

    That pretty much sums up the philosophy of the Ratbag Left.

    Everyone’s salary is potential tax and not at their discretion to spend as they choose.

    A “Saving” to the Ratbag Left is an increase in tax.

  350. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 19, 2016 10:19 am

    We are only having this taxation discussion because Rudd/Gillard trashed the budget.

    How about we cut spending in every govt program by 10%?

  351. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 19, 2016 10:49 am

  352. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 19, 2016 10:58 am

    “1st the budget emergency vanished.”

    Really Mr Richard Dennis?

    We have a budget emergency.

  353. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 19, 2016 11:16 am

    Refuting self-interested garbage in the SMH
    http://www.tallyroom.com.au/27176

    …In yesterday’s Herald, Heath Aston ran an ‘exclusive‘ publishing supposed modelling from a couple of so-called “veteran players in minor party preference negotiations” claiming that Senate GVT reform would deliver the Coalition a majority in the Senate.

    There’s a lot of massive problems with this prediction, and I’ll try to lay them out.

    At the end I will apply some of the same logic, but using real polling data and come up with my own less sensationalised conclusion, which suggests a Coalition win would lead to Xenophon balance of power, but if Labor recovered to a winnable position then the Greens would likely win the balance of power…

  354. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2016 11:21 am

    NOTHING – ABSOFKNLUTELY NOTHING – HAS CHANGED!

    https://www.liberal.org.au/our-plan/economy

    In fact we have stagnated to the point of going into reverse!

  355. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2016 11:24 am

    it is so funny to see the teabag-like minors spanking greenz+xeno `and` PREFERENCING blib in protest, it is good to see the minor-teabags are benefiting from the `broken-clock` rule

    And its the closest thing to bloody democracy we have at the moment – how ironic!

  356. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 19, 2016 11:30 am

  357. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2016 11:34 am

    With Chrissy Whine burbling DD you can bet he’s seen a copy of the Doomsday Budget!

  358. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 19, 2016 1:29 pm

    That’s why I paid HIGHER taxes … all my life …

    That’s a nonsensical point. Taxes aren’t saved by the government, then used to pay for a future pension and a pension doesn’t accrue to those that have paid taxes.

  359. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2016 1:50 pm

    Everyone’s salary is potential tax

    no shit Sherlock

    and not at their discretion to spend as they choose.

    yea, then you lose the plot.

    A “Saving” to the Ratbag Left is an increase in tax.

    tell it to hockey/morrison. They’re spending shitloads more than Swan ever did, and we got nothing to show for it. At least Swan gave us the worlds best response to the GFC with his spending.

    Taxes aren’t saved by the government

    No, but they SHOULD be INVESTED into things like a future proofed NBN, instead of pissing away the same amount of money on crap that’s got to be replaced as soon as it’s laid.

    That brings back returns for future taxpayers to cover that cost then.

  360. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2016 1:54 pm

    Thanks Mr TurnAbbout

    Nine out of 10 NBN-related complaints were resolved after the TIO referred them back to their telcos.

    Overall, the TIO received 23,572 new complaints in the three months to December – the lowest level since the September quarter of 2006.

    Far fewer complaints were received about coverage problems and excess data charges.

    But consumers reported enduring problems with slow data speeds and internet service drop-outs.

    Originally published as Complaints up about dud NBN services

    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/complaints-up-about-dud-nbn-services/news-story/ef8873915f70f7094daa9364ff26eccc

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That’s a nonsensical point. Taxes aren’t saved by the government, then used to pay for a future pension and a pension doesn’t accrue to those that have paid taxes.

    That’s exactly what they did! Then along came Compulsory Super … in 1992 … by that time I’d been paying tax (pension included supplement) for 29 years!

    Which should now be at 12% ideally 15% … but who held it back? Even during the “boom” years? The Liberals …

    I didn’t change the system … my generation were expected to supplement a part pension with what superannuation we could muster in the time we had … and that’s what some of us have tried to do … I worked for myself from 1992 – no CS …

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superannuation_in_Australia

  361. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 19, 2016 2:20 pm

    Taxes pay for current expenditure, and there is no qualifying period for a pension. So if you have paid taxes TB – good.

    But if paying your taxes is a qualification for any benefit, then I must be due for a HUGE payment from the government.

    I think I can say that I pay more tax then 99% of the population.

  362. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 19, 2016 3:31 pm

    “They’re spending shitloads more than Swan ever did, and we got nothing to show for it. ”

    Hockeys first budget deficit was smaller than Swans last budget deficit so how can your statement be true?

  363. Walrus permalink
    February 19, 2016 3:46 pm

    “No, but they SHOULD be INVESTED into things like a future proofed NBN, ”

    Guess what Ratbag. The fuckwits you barrack for took it off Budget remember…………?

  364. Walrus permalink
    February 19, 2016 3:47 pm

    “Taxes aren’t saved by the government, then used to pay for a future pension and a pension doesn’t accrue to those that have paid taxes.”

    EXACTLY.

    But TB persists with the fantasy that it somehow does

  365. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2016 4:33 pm

    But TB persists with the fantasy that it somehow does

    Like it or not it is/was a government promise …

    We’ve spent your rent now go away?

    So much for the Good Samaritan BS … hey?

    But if paying your taxes is a qualification for any benefit, then I must be due for a HUGE payment from the government.

    And I should be due far more than I get now! What about qualifying for an age pension because of my age?

    And an income cut of 35% income for two years while fucking up a career playing soldiers.

    I reckon the Australian government has taken enough.

    What year did you start work?

    You’re either thick (which I doubt) or just being bloody minded (which I suspect) …

    The percentage of my taxes on my earnings over the years would have been far higher than yours … and for the first 29 years to cover an age pension …

    I’ve never complained about tax (I confess complaining about the way government’s spent it – but not at the expense of others) … and running a small business was slugged in the 90’s!

    But your comments (and others) seem to indicate that anyone worse off than you should survive as best they can …

    If you feel that way then you should fuck off to a desert island with Fifi …

    Living in a society requires that you pay tax … not sucking out of the economy as much as you can because you have more than anyone else …

    Liberal are obsessed with the “spending” … when its the income that needs to be improved …

    I’ll discuss this rationally with you both when you address these entitlement leaners …

    ► Multi-national Tax Dodgers

    ► Negative Gearing Welfare

    ► Trust Funds

    ► Super Tax for Rich

    ► Pollie’s Perqs

    ► Ex-Pollies Perqs

    (You can lose it all tomorrow – one wave, one car accident, one virus, one mad twit on ice … will you expect help? That’s why we live in a society, to help each other … judge others at your own peril)

  366. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2016 4:35 pm

    I think I can say that I pay more tax then 99% of the population.

    One of the 1% then … I rest my case …

    I wonder just how “productive” you are? You seem to have a similar philosophy to wally.

  367. February 19, 2016 4:38 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  368. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2016 4:55 pm

    Guess what Ratbag. The fuckwits you barrack for took it off Budget remember…………?

    Yea, so obviously its not really there lol.

    Ease up Bill? or EasyRider Bill 😉

  369. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2016 5:09 pm

    Double Dissolution Anyone … ?

    <blockquoteCoalition panic

    Now it is trying to do something meaningful on tax reform in the space of a few months, and none of it is easy. It’s not just looking hurried, it’s starting to look panicked.

    The situation is also the result of hard work and discipline by Labor. Way back yonder, when nobody was paying attention, shadow treasurer Chris Bowen, whose star has risen in recent months, was giving speeches vowing that after the betrayal of trust that was the 2014 budget, Labor was going to lay its policy soul bare before the election

    There would be tough choices but voters would know what they were voting for.

    It has not been smooth. Shadow cabinet, for example, had heated discussions about the negative gearing decision because of the political risks involved.

    As one shadow minister who supported the decision said, “People are sick of being lied to.

    “I don’t want to get in and not be able to do anything; we don’t want to be like Abbott,” the MP said, in a reference to ruling things out before an election to curry favour with voters and then having a mandate to do nothing.

    http://www.afr.com/opinion/bill-shorten-puts-labor-back-on-long-road-to-the-top-20160215-gmux1y

  370. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 19, 2016 5:13 pm

    The percentage of my taxes on my earnings over the years would have been far higher than yours …

    Do you think so? On what basis? Please provide some evidence or own up that you just make stuff up TB.

  371. Walrus permalink
    February 19, 2016 5:18 pm

    “The percentage of my taxes on my earnings”

    Then I’ll get Scott Morrison to increase your pension by sending you a whole lot of these %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

    But I think you’ll need some more of these to pay for anything …….$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

  372. Walrus permalink
    February 19, 2016 5:23 pm

    “Liberal are obsessed with the “spending”…..”

    Next time we see a nice new school hall or a house with dodgy insulation just ponder where your future pension rise was spent

    ROFLMAO

    ToM and I plus NoS screamed from the rooftops about how unneccessary the Second Wave of Swans spending was. I wonder if all those dead people have spent there $900 yet ?

    Now you are whinging about it………………..Uhhhhhhhhhhh…………That’s Karma sunshine LOL

  373. Walrus permalink
    February 19, 2016 5:24 pm

    “ToM and I plus NoS”

    Ooooops……..plus ToSY

  374. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2016 5:57 pm

    TALK about entitled.

    An entrepreneur who demanded homeless ‘riff raff’ be removed from his sight in downtown San Francisco has been dubbed ‘the millennial Donald Trump’, as the internet reacts to his heartless diatribe.

    “I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless people to and from my way to work every day,” said tech bro Justin Keller, who founded the tech start-up Commando.io.

    “The wealthy working people have earned their right to live in the city. They went out, got an education, work hard, and earned it.”

    We didn’t realise that earning a decent income gave you the right to impose a round of social cleansing.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/wealthy-entrepreneur-demands-homeless-riff-raff-be-removed-from-his-sight/news-story/0b1a776357c84a4578e28a31038db5b6

    ========================================

    Do you think so? On what basis? Please provide some evidence or own up that you just make stuff up TB.

    Only when you do, ToM …

    I wonder if all those dead people have spent there $900 yet ?

    I think you meant “their”

    You may have got yer $900 but we didn’t see a cent … did you send yours back?

    Oooops … alright …

    Don’t concern yourself with my welfare … it’s fine … and you’re not contributing much …

    Concern yourself with all those people who don’t have enough … try living on $34,000 a year as a couple in 2016 …

  375. Walrus permalink
    February 19, 2016 6:08 pm

    “You may have got yer $900 but we didn’t see a cent … ”

    I earnt far too much for them to bother me with a piddly $900.

  376. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 19, 2016 6:22 pm

    ► Multi-national Tax Dodgers

    Like who? I do remember Labor supporters wanted to GIVE taxpayers money to multi-nationals like Toyota, Ford, Holden, even more than Hockey was going to give

    I doubt the multi-nationals are dodging too much tax in Australia.

    What really annoys me is when people say Apple does not pay enough tax in Australia on the billions of dollars in sale. Apple designs, manufactures, packages, boxes in fact everything is done overseas. If Australians want Apple to pay more tax in Australia we have to get Apple to do something in Australia

  377. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2016 6:25 pm

    I earnt far too much for them to bother me with a piddly $900.

    Piddly to some …

    Let’s talk about the Royal Family …

    As for Kneel …

  378. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2016 6:31 pm

    I wonder if all those dead people have spent there $900 yet ?

    Pretty sure that number would be approaching zero, you know, with them being dead and all (wow)

    ToM and I plus NoS screamed from the rooftops about how unneccessary the Second Wave of Swans spending was.

    yea, the lolstralian was doing the same, in lock step with ideological dinosaurs.

    until …………..

    ” The main prop for the economy in the first quarter was the government’s national school’s spending program, which added 0.9 percentage points to GDP. Consumer demand held up, despite the impact of aggressive interest rate hikes by the Reserve Bank of Australia. ”
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/economics/mining-sector-investment-to-speed-up-recovery-from-slowdown/story-e6frg926-1225874550046

    Never let facts get in the way of yer selective amnesia 😉

  379. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 19, 2016 6:59 pm

    I’ve not made any claims about how much tax you paid relative to me TB, so I’ll just presume you’re making stuff up, because that was just an invention by you.

  380. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 19, 2016 7:15 pm

    “The main prop for the economy in the first quarter was the government’s national school’s spending program………Consumer demand held up, despite the impact of aggressive interest rate hikes by the Reserve Bank of Australia. ”

    Is that correct? In 2010 the govt was spending extra money beacuse Rudd/Treasury thought it would stimulate the economy while the Reserve Bank was hiking interest rates.

    Why would the RB hike interest rates when the govt was trying to stimulate the economy or did i read that wrong?

  381. February 19, 2016 8:17 pm

    blubbering,,,,,,me with a piddly $900,,,,,,

    #then you shouldn`t object lifting the subsistence-level of pensions to that `piddly` amount #teabags

  382. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2016 8:18 pm

    Is that correct?

    Good question nil, considering the source 😉

  383. February 19, 2016 9:37 pm

    TB,,,,,,(You can lose it all tomorrow ,, one wave, one car accident, one virus, one mad twit on ice .. will you expect help? That’s why we live in a society, to help each other .. judge others at your own peril),,,,,,

    #from time to time on yank news/docos l have seen `former-teabags` crying tears of blood because they`ve gone broke with medical bills to save their child/wife after accident or illness, it doesn`t seem to matter how often the teabag `followers` are told their system is crap and needs to change (even by their own kind) they will always refuse to change, preferring to `believe` things like national-health, gun-control and `social-good` topics are communist plots, unfortunately this flat-earth nonsense has been adopted and used by the canberra teabags to such an extent that we`ll end-up with the same problems

  384. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 19, 2016 10:10 pm

    “from time to time on yank news/docos l have seen `former-teabags` crying tears of blood because they`ve gone broke with medical bills to save their child/wife after accident or illness”

    Do you have a reference? I guess you could always find one or two hard luck stories but how common is what you state? My American friends tell me no-one would be turned away from hospital if they do not have insurance but they may have trouble paying the bills

  385. TB Queensland permalink
    February 20, 2016 8:59 am

    … so I’ll just presume you’re making stuff up

    The rate of tax in the 60’s 70′ 80’s was certainly higher than today … twist that to suit your argument all you want … and of course we dealt with sales tax and no GST …

    The real culprits that are buggering up your expected reduced income tax … I’ve never seen you complain about any of these:

    ► Multi-national Tax

    ► Negative Gearing

    ► Trust Funds

    ► Super Tax for Rich

    ► Pollie’s Perqs

    ► Ex-Pollies Perqs

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    My American friends tell me no-one would be turned away from hospital if they do not have insurance but they may have trouble paying the bills

    FFS, KNeel, read what tebagz wrote! And in the US of America … run out of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ … as wally succinctly puts … you’re on yer own! No help … bankruptcy and on the street … just like thousands of military vets!

  386. February 20, 2016 10:45 am

    zombie,,,,,My American friends .. have trouble paying the bills,,,,,

    #ha-ha, zombie immediately provides a `working` example #proves.my.point

  387. Tom R permalink
    February 20, 2016 11:26 am

    Americas health system is broken

    They are one of the highest spenders on health/GDP, yet their citizens are going bankrupt from medical bills.

    And this idiot mob wants to drag us down their path ffs!

    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankruptcy.medical.bills/

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS

  388. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 20, 2016 12:38 pm

    I see TB, so because tax rates were higher back in the 70s…you MUST have paid a higher proportion of your income in taxes than me.

    That’s faultless logic.

  389. TB Queensland permalink
    February 20, 2016 1:03 pm

    That’s faultless logic.

    Thanks, ToM … 😉 This is why!

    In 1945 a ‘Social Services Contribution’ was introduced, which hypothecated a part of income tax revenue for social welfare. The primary motivation for the distinction was to make increases in income tax more palatable, rather than as a means to separate out social security contributions from general taxation (Mathews and Jay 1972). In the early 1950s, income taxes and social services taxes were amalgamated allowing a substantial simplification of the income tax return. The new form allowed taxpayers to assess their tax liability and determine if, after credit for tax instalments, a refund was due or a further amount payable. The public responded well to the simplified form. Since that time, Australia has had no specific tax levied to pay for social security benefits, unlike most other OECD countries.

    From here … you may find interesting …

    http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1156/HTML/docshell.asp?URL=01_Brief_History.asp

    You may (not) like this too … although based on the US economy the same principles attach … especially as our neo-lib government and opposition seem to want to head down this path …

    This analysis revealed a lot of surprising conclusions, including the following:

    •Today’s government spending levels are indeed too high, at least relative to the average level of tax revenue the government has generated over the past 60 years. Unless Americans are willing to radically increase the amount of taxes they pay relative to GDP, government spending must eventually be cut.

    •Today’s income tax rates are strikingly low relative to the rates of the past century, especially for rich people. For most of the century, including some boom times, top-bracket income tax rates were much higher than they are today.

    •Contrary to what Republicans would have you believe, super-high tax rates on rich people do not appear to hurt the economy or make people lazy: During the 1950s and early 1960s, the top bracket income tax rate was over 90%–and the economy, middle-class, and stock market boomed.

    •Super-low tax rates on rich people also appear to be correlated with unsustainable sugar highs in the economy–brief, enjoyable booms followed by protracted busts. They also appear to be correlated with very high inequality. (For example, see the 1920s and now).

    •Periods of very low tax rates have been followed by periods with very high tax rates, and vice versa. So history suggests that tax rates will soon start going up.

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/history-of-tax-rates-2012-5#lets-begin-with-a-look-at-the-top-income-tax-bracket-since-the-federal-income-tax-was-started-in-1913-as-you-can-see-relative-to-history-its-currently-very-low-1

  390. TB Queensland permalink
    February 20, 2016 1:18 pm

    And perhaps a few pay rises wouldn’t go astray …

    http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/6345.0Media%20Release1Sep%202015?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=6345.0&issue=Sep%202015&num=&view=

    Profits are UP … wages are DOWN … where’s the wealth going again?

    Gone to trust funds, gone to Caymans, gone to multinationals one and all!

    When will they ever learn?

    The country and the 50% of Australians on the bottom of the totem pole are being raped, pillaged and plundered by Robber Barons and their henchmen like never before!

    But the discussion is pointless … its a Mulberry Bush argument …

  391. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 20, 2016 5:29 pm

    “The real culprits that are buggering up your expected reduced income tax … I’ve never seen you complain about any of these:”

    We had no problems until you voted for Rudd in 2007. About time you started admiting responsibility for the problems this coutry faces

  392. TB Queensland permalink
    February 20, 2016 6:29 pm

    Here come Murdoch’s cavalary to save the government …

    We have a Prime Meddler who constantly waffles … and now we have Malcolm Farr doing the same …

    Desperation?

    Nothing changes …

    http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/the-governments-biggest-problem-right-now-is-labors-strengthening-economic-credentials/news-story/020991375c42fb8ff8894b690b1d690a?sv=94b8b08059c55a435c077295e20a7e1a

  393. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 20, 2016 7:00 pm

    We had no problems until you voted for Rudd in 2007. About time you started admiting responsibility for the problems this coutry faces

    Stop trolling neil. Before rudd was howard and costello, they left us with a GFC and a structural deficit. The country hasn’t been the same since.

  394. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 20, 2016 7:09 pm

    Wow so Howard is now responsible for the GFC. Such hatred i find hard to understand.

    And there was no structural deficit under Howard/ Costello. That concept was introduced solely to trash Costello.

  395. February 20, 2016 9:34 pm

    zombie,,,,,started admiting responsibility for the problems this coutry faces,,,,,

    1.open cheque-book iraq/afghan 15-year disaster with no end in sight,

    2.expensive off-shore gulag venture with no end in sight,

    3.innovation-free copper-class nbn until 2050 if `lucky`, probably longer,

    4.F35-trashcans which will enable canberra to conquer Tonga, provided they don`t throw rocks at us #teabags

  396. IR Pitch permalink
    February 20, 2016 9:45 pm

    Denying any ideological warfare­, Mr Lloyd admits the bargaining policy that underpins the agreements introduced under Tony Abbott is part of a bigger picture, but stresses that the reform agenda is practical. “An opportunity exists to reach agreements more attuned to a modern workplace,” he writes.”

  397. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 20, 2016 10:00 pm

    “2.expensive off-shore gulag venture with no end in sight, ”

    That problem was solved by Howards Pacific Solution. Your vote in 2007 resulted in 50,000 boat arrivals costing $15-$20B to house all these people.

    How dare you blame the Coalition for that. There were only 6 boat people in detention in 2007

    “4.F35-trashcans which will enable canberra to conquer Tonga, provided they don`t throw rocks at us #teabags”

    Has bipartisian support. We were always going to order approx 70 F35’s to replace the 70 aging F/A 18’s

    And Labors FTTP would never be built.

    How about you start claiming responsibility for the damage Labor has caused this country.

    We had no budget problems in 2007 until TB of Queensland and you lot voted for the worst govt in Australian history ie the Rudd/Gillard govt

  398. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 20, 2016 10:42 pm

    So TB, how does any of that demonstrate that you paid a higher proportion of tax than me?

  399. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 20, 2016 10:47 pm

    And there was no structural deficit under Howard/ Costello. That concept was introduced solely to trash Costello.

    it’s not a concept, it’s reality and it has ensnared your own side. Structural deficits as far out as the eye can see, courtesy of howard/costello largesse.

  400. armchair opinionator permalink
    February 20, 2016 11:03 pm

  401. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2016 6:28 am

    “it’s not a concept, it’s reality and it has ensnared your own side. Structural deficits as far out as the eye can see, courtesy of howard/costello largesse.”

    Like i said before.The hate contained in lefties i still find hard to understand.

    The structural deficit concept was invented by lefties to trash Costello. Unemployment went from 8% to 4% under Howard. However what do lefties say? Well Howard changed the definition of unemployment.

    You lefties cannot admit you are wrong in anything but when last in power locked up 50,000 people. I have yet to see a leftie apologise for the mess they caused

    Lefties
    1. trashed our budget
    2. trashed our borders
    3. trashed our unemployment rate
    4. trashed everything they touched

  402. Tom R permalink
    February 21, 2016 10:27 am

    The structural deficit concept was invented by lefties

    Really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_and_cyclical_deficit

  403. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2016 11:38 am

    OK. Introduced by lefties to trash Costello. Did uou here any discussion of structural deficits when keatings was running all his budget deficits just before he lost office in 1996?

    From your link talking about structural deficits

    “..contends that there are too many variables involved to allow a clear distinction to be made, especially when dealing with current circumstances rather than retrospectively, and suggests that the concept of structural deficits may be used more for political purposes than analytical purposes.”

    Labor introduced the concept into the 2010 budget for political purposes. Most devious bunch of people i have ever met are lefties.

  404. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2016 11:43 am

    So TB, how does any of that demonstrate that you paid a higher proportion of tax than me?

    So you’re not an economics expert? 😦

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    3. trashed our unemployment rate

    Now at 6% – Now at SIX percent …

    Fact: The Liberal National Coalition Government has no now been in power for TWO and a HALF YEARS! That’s 2 1/2 years!

    And both parties are crumbling within … no policies … just plenty of waffle …

  405. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2016 12:46 pm

    “Now at 6% – Now at SIX percent … ”

    That was close to a record low for hawke/Keating. It was only below 6% for about 3 months. For 13 years from 1983-1996 it was greater than 6%.

  406. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 22, 2016 7:19 am

    From your link

    http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/australia-unemployment-rate.png?s=aulfunem&v=201602211906n&d1=19160101&d2=20161231

    Look at how high unemployment was under Hawke/Keating. 6% was the lowest unemployment got. High unemployment did not stop you voting Labor. It was at 11% when you voted for Keating

    Fact is Labor has a terrible record dealing with unemployment.

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