Exclusive: We all just need to Toughen the fuck up
Apparently Walrus has been right all along. We all need to just toughen the fuck up.
Or at least that’s what British TV game show host, humourist and raconteur Stephen Fry would have us believe.
Stephen Fry has caused a social media debate after he said in a US interview that victims of rape should “grow up” and not feel sorry for themselves.
The former QI presenter, has caused an uproar after he declared on a US talk show that rape victims should just “grow up” and not feel sorry for themselves.
SUCK IT PRINCESSES
Fry, 58, was discussing the idea of s-called “free speech” on the Rubin Report and how people today were avoiding certain “trigger words”, like “rape”, as they were becoming too sensitive and politically correct.
In the interview titled “Political Correctness and Clear Thinking”, Rubin asked Fry if he feared for the loss of open-mindedness and the effect of “the regressive left” on language and speech and wanted to know whether it was becoming a problem in the UK.
Fry replied: “We fear that it’s going to happen more and more because America leads and Britain follows in all kinds of ways.”
He put it down to “deep infantilism” in today’s society, saying that people “can’t bear complexity”.
“The ideas that things aren’t easy to understand… They want to be told, or they want to be able to decide and say, ‘this is good, and this is bad,’ and anything that conflicts with that is not to be borne,” Fry said.
At first, Fry used an example of a controversial statue of Cecil Rhodes at Oriel college, Oxford, which campaigners wanted removed because they believed the British imperialist’s legacy should not be celebrated. He then moved on to the example of rape in culture.
“There are many great plays which contain rapes, and the word rape now is even considered a rape,” he said. “To say the word rape is to rape.”
“They’re terrible things and they have to be thought about, clearly, but if you say you can’t watch this play, you can’t watch Titus Andronicus, or you can’t read it in a Shakespeare class, or you can’t watch Macbeth because it’s got children being killed in it, it might trigger something when you were young that upset you once, because uncle touched you in a nasty place, well I’m sorry.
“It’s a great shame and we’re all very sorry that your uncle touched you in that nasty place, you get some of my sympathy, but your self pity gets none of my sympathy.”
He added: “Self pity is the ugliest emotion in humanity. Get rid of it, because no one’s going to like you if you feel sorry for yourself. The irony is we’ll feel sorry for you, if you stop feeling sorry for yourself. Just grow up.”
A debate on his comments ensued with some calling them “moronic”, while others asked for them not to be taking out of context.
The British comic famously “quit” Twitter earlier this year following the backlash from a joke he made while hosting the British Academy of Film and Television Arts awards in February.
The actor, who has hosted the BAFTAs for 15 years and had more than 12 million Twitter followers, came under fire after referring to Mad Max: Fury Road costume designer Jenny Beavan’s appearance.
“Only one of the great cinematic costume designers would come to an awards ceremony dressed as a bag lady,” he said.
After being lambasted on the social media platform for his “misogynistic” remarks he fired back at critics.
“Will all you sanctimonious fuckers fuck the fuck off. Jenny Beavan is a friend and joshing is legitimate. Christ I want to leave the planet,” he said.
theguttertrash.com 
I saw the headlines and suspected there a context issue … not sure about the “toughen up” approach but I know that rape is an awful thing for people to deal with not just the victim.
Having said that I don’t think Stephen Fry ever minces words nor, being the intellectual twit that he can be, does he mean to offend* … it was a discussion and obviously unscripted … you’ve just got to wear it!
As an aside, I have been a big fan of the Dambusters since I was a child (still my favourite film and I have just completed a tiny metallic model of a Lancaster Bomber).
Peter Jackson of The Hobbit & LoR fame has been promising to remake The Dambusters for over a decade (he’s been busy I know) … my freedom of speech point …
Stephen Fry has completed the script for Jackson’s version and one of the issues that arose was the name of Squadron Leader Guy Gibson’s dog … Nigger … a black Labrador … I for one still don’t know what it will be called (the dog is central to the story) … Digger, perhaps?
*Germaine Greer on the other hand????
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0873/7536/products/Avro_Lancaster_B_5235f7e05e6c4.jpeg?v=1434051035
Who hasn’t said something that hasn’t quite come out the right way…?
I do it all the time, unsurprisingly.
IT was perhaps a tad insensitive to suggest that rape victims should just “grow up” .
Perhaps where he was coming from is that he has suffered many demons of his own with his depression and so forth, and that he has had to just “grow up” and contend with it.
The unfortunate thing is that unlike Fry, most people don’t have an adulating audience who are more than willing to outpour their sympathies towards them, and that “rape” isn’t quite in the same realms as “mental illness””.
Fry expects a great deal of empathy for those suffering mental illness, yet with his statements (if they are indeed true), seeks to deny rape victims of the same.
It seems that people like Fry (Germaine Greer for example), seem to attract a “following” when they’re young and articulate, but as they get older they tend to make more outlandish and ridiculous remarks either out of increasing ignorance and being “out of touch” with changing times, or just diminishing intellectual capacity…
It gets to all of us in the end…
It gets to all of us in the end…
Speak for yer’se’l Laddie!
… and that “rape” isn’t quite in the same realms as “mental illness””.
… Yes! Because it’s physical, emotional and psychological on so many levels!
I confess to being lucky enough to only have the odd days of depression that I get over quickly …
People who have never been burgled don’t understand the sense of invasion and expecting a return of the “invaders” …
I can’t imagine that “feeling” exploded, if I was personally invaded!
But I have been part of the extended suffering of a close rape victim … and the level of anger is something I had never experienced before!
The other similar experience was when my son was kidnapped in PNG! And its a “helpless anger” …
“”Speak for yer’se’l Laddie!””
I was trying to be sympathetic to your plight.
#somuchfortrying
Some of my remarks can be taken out of context… like F*** OFF
“Some of my remarks can be taken out of context…”
I too, am guilty of this transgression…
Like when I inform certain individuals over otherwise polite dinner conversation that their so-called “views and opinions” are fucked in the head.
Surprisingly enough, my observations tend to ‘not go down so well.’
However my reward is that I’m generally not invited back to attend dinner parties amongst those particular circles..
I was trying to be sympathetic to your plight.
What fkn plight?
Some of my remarks can be taken out of context…
None of your remarks are taken out of context, ToM … and FUCK OFF is pretty straightforward I would think …
However my reward is that I’m generally not invited back to attend dinner parties amongst those particular circles..
I know the feeling … no-one invites me to their tory dinner parties anymore … I’m so sad LOL!
I’m planning some shirts with “Use By Date – ∞ “
The unfortunate thing is that unlike Fry, most people don’t have an adulating audience who are more than willing to outpour their sympathies towards them, and that “rape” isn’t quite in the same realms as “mental illness””.
exactly. I think I get where Fry was coming from, but he stuffed it, badly. Which is unforgivable for a guy who has made his name around the ‘specificity’ of the English language. I’d be hoping for a grovelling apology for this one.
As for your comment reb, it is highlighted here in regards to “free speech’ such that it is.
Free speech means something only if you have a platform with which to use it. These free speech fetishists don’t seem to realise that “free speech” is a privilege usually afforded only to people like themselves. To blithely assert that everyone enjoys the same right to free speech is like claiming that I have a right to buy a large house in north London because there is a “free market”. Theoretically it is possible, but life in our real world isn’t like that.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/12/stephen-fry-free-speech-child-abuse-bullying-safe-spaces?CMP=soc_568
Some of my remarks can be taken out of context… like
……… being a vociferous supporter of workchoices, for example.
cos there were quite a lot of remarks in that particular ‘debate’ that everyone else obviously lacked ‘context’ for 🙂
…To blithely assert that everyone enjoys the same right to free speech is like claiming that I have a right to buy a large house in north London because there is a “free market”. Theoretically it is possible, but life in our real world isn’t like that…
Exactly, they don’t come clamouring to us with a microphone in hand, asking for our pearls of wisdom on any subject. Free speech is useless when there is no platform to be heard, something andrew bolt and the other defenders of free speech like the IPA can’t understand either [actually they do understand, but they prefer to use their platforms to bully, intimidate and propagandise]
Stephen [and germaine] should be grown up enough to just shut up sometimes, then he wouldn’t need to be erasing his twitter a/c all the time and people might still think he offers intelligent, witty and thoughtful public commentary.
From KL”s excellent link above:
“”Free speech isn’t under attack; platform privilege is. Stephen Fry, Germaine Greer and the rest of the commentariat are the free speech 1%, enjoying regular and ready access to platforms the rest of the population can only dream about. When you use such platform privilege to pour scorn on minorities and sneer at victims of child abuse, you’re not a champion of free speech – you’re a bully.””
//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js
From KL”s excellent link above:
No, I won’t be offended reb 😉
I hated Stephen Fry before it was fashionable to.
This is the trouble with twitter, the hate flows free. I’ve been a fan of Fry for a long time. One blindingly stupid thing won’t make me hate him. Even if he doesn’t come out and clarify, he’s still got a lot to offer, imo.
Of course, if he started making a habit out of it…………….
Opinionated people are sometimes going to say things that are just plain wrong. It depends on a) how they handle it and b) how often they do it.
//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js
I must say I’ve noticed a lack of empathy for the Channel 9 crew … and I feel the same way … 9 has a duty of care to its employees but the employees can say NO … however. having done that on more than one occasion with a wife and two children to support, it is very, very difficult … but one that many dedicated H&S professionals face every day!
This may be a big wake up call for all the other contrived “reality” shows … its the producers that should be in jail!
I must admit, I really feel sorry for the mother of the children.
Now it seems that she is being subjected to judicial blackmail but being pressed to relinquish the legal custody rights she already has.
…and congratulations to AO!
I rarely see eye to eye with Alan Jones … but he seems to be switching somehow …
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/criticism-nine-has-become-dysfunctional-in-handling-of-lebanon-abduction-disaster/news-story/b0e0cc54e5e9dc54f5b0b23ab8ff91ba
“I must say I’ve noticed a lack of empathy for the Channel 9 crew … ”
A bit the same here. Talk about aiding the manufacturing of the News. However the cameraman and soundman usually dont know all the detail about the job they are doing until they embark on their journey*. However Tara Brown and Stephen Rice are upto their neck in this as they do the research and would be the one’s pushing for the story to go ahead.
Plenty of sympathy for the Mum and none for the Abduction Outfit
* I know a couple of people at the Network
i think 9 is a problem, but I’m amazed at the lack of attention the incarceration of the mother is getting.
Not only were her children abducted from her, she is now being blackmailed into relinquishing custody of them by the judiciary and the abductor.
Amazing that the media and TB are concentrating on channel 9, rather than the actual outrage.
i think 9 is a problem
Same shit today tonight etal have been doing for years. A shame 60minutes had to sink to that level though, I mean, who can forget the famous “chase for skase’, or the stoopid “smuggled a bomb into India Commonwealth games” hijinx.
Amazing that the media and TB are concentrating on channel 9, rather than the actual outrage.
You’ve really got a problem, ToMMY.
How should I demonstrate my outrage for the mother for you … a mother seeking custody of her children should never have been put in this position by the 9 PRODUCERS … they took advantage of her desperation.
Perhaps I’d moved on … to the PRODUCERS …
And there are legal channels … tedious I know but far better than the shit 9 has got them all into now …
This may be of interest … one of the first things I checked when the story broke …
Australia has bilateral agreements on international parental child abduction with Egypt and Lebanon. These are known as the Australia-Egypt Agreement and the Australia-Lebanon Agreement.
More information about how these agreements work and how applications are processed is available in the following documents:
https://www.ag.gov.au/FamiliesAndMarriage/Families/InternationalFamilyLaw/Pages/Internationalparentalchildabduction.aspx
It appears to have been an attempt to get the children back to Australia after their Lebanese father, Ali el-Amien, took them to Lebanon last year and refused to let them return.
Quite simply EVERYONE involved broke the law … parents, kidnappers, channel 9 …
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
* I know a couple of people at the Network
Me too … at Mt. Cootha … many decades ago I was offered a job as a stringer … (I’d just sold some footage of a local fire and wanted to be a cameraman at the time) … and I made a couple of training vids with 9’s production co. back in the early 90’s and became friends with the director I employed … that’s when I met John Clark …
7 seems to be on top news wise at the moment.
So, yomm doesn’t seem to think it outrageous that 60 minutes put the safety of it’s crew, the mother and the children at risk all to fill airtime?
“7 seems to be on top news wise at the moment.”
Agreed.
Except that for 2 days this week the Seven Network reported on the story but refused to mention the Nine Network in its coverage let alone 60 Minutes even though it was plastered across every newspaper in the country plus was being reported as Channel 9 on ABC.
Fuck they carry on like school kids with their pettiness at times.
I think it IS outrageous that 9 risked the safety of a range of people in chasing a story… but I can understand the motivations of a mother who has had her children kidnapped and taken to a foreign country.
Now she is being blackmailed by the judiciary and the kidnapper.
“”Fuck they carry on like school kids with their pettiness at times.””
I know.
It’s almost like a blog.
“”I can understand the motivations of a mother who has…””
…been paid $100,000 in advance for the story…
BOOM BOOM!
…been paid $100,000 in advance for the story… that she used to try to retrieve the children that were kidnapped.
Now being blackmailed by the judiciary and the kidnapper to relinquish her legal custody of the children.
Now being blackmailed by the judiciary and the kidnapper to relinquish her legal custody of the children.
That should have been pursued via the government agreement linked above …
The whole sorry mess was bad enough before 9 got involved all they’ve done, to turn a profit, is make matters worse …
Classic Robber Baron thinking — one track — $$$$$$$$$$
Bunch of fkn cowboys … the father had information they were coming and advised his wife he knew and not to attempt it …
The father is not some night robed “towel head” – he is a well respected business man with very strong political connections …
__________________________________________________
In the late 80’s a Lebanese friend of ours (we met in PNG) went into Beirut harbour in a small boat under fire and rescued his 9 yo nephew … they all now live in the UK …
2016 is quite a bit different … now it is much harder to get around without being noticed … especially those of European Caucasian appearance …