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Is the world prepared for another banking crisis?

July 29, 2016

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As Europe braces for the release of its bank stress tests, the world could be on the verge of another banking crisis.

The signs are obvious to all. The World Bank estimates the ratio of non-performing loans to total gross loans in 2015 reached 4.3 per cent. Before the 2009 global financial crisis, they stood at 4.2 per cent.

If anything, the problem is starker now than then: there are more than $US3 trillion ($4 trillion) in stressed loan assets worldwide, compared to the roughly $US1 trillion of US subprime loans that triggered the 2009 crisis.

European banks are saddled with $US1.3 trillion in non-performing loans, nearly $US400 billion of them in Italy. The IMF estimates that risky loans in China also total $US1.3 trillion, although private forecasts are higher. India’s stressed loans top $US150 billion.

Once again, banks in the US, Canada, UK, several European countries, Asia, Australia and New Zealand are heavily exposed to property markets, which are overvalued by historical measures.

In addition, banks have significant exposure to the troubled resource sector: lending to the energy sector alone totals around $US3 trillion globally.

Borrowers are struggling to service that debt in an environment of falling commodity prices, weak growth, overcapacity, rising borrowing costs and (in some cases) a weaker currency.

To make matters worse, the world’s limp recovery since 2009 is intensifying loan stresses. In advanced economies, low growth and disinflation or deflation is making it harder for companies to pay off what they owe.

Many European firms are suffering from a lack of global competitiveness, exacerbated by the effects of the single currency.

Government efforts to revive growth – largely through a targeted expansion of bank lending – are having dangerous side effects.

With safe assets offering low returns, banks have financed less creditworthy borrowers, especially in the shale oil sector and emerging markets. Abundant liquidity has inflated asset prices and banks have lent against this overvalued collateral. Low rates have allowed weak borrowers to survive longer than they should, which delays the necessary pain of writing off bad loans.

In developing economies, strong capital inflows, seeking higher returns or fleeing depreciating currencies, have contributed to a risky build-up in leverage. So have government policies encouraging debt-funded investment or consumption to stimulate aggregate demand.

What’s most worrying, though, is the fact that the traditional solutions to banking crises no longer seem available or effective.

To recover, banks need strong earnings, capital infusions, a process to dispose of bad loans and industry reforms. Yet today, banks’ ability to earn their way out of their problems and write off losses is limited.

Current monetary policy is partly to blame. Zero or negative rates drive down bank lending rates more than deposit rates, which can’t be cut because of the need to maintain deposits and comply with regulatory requirements for stable funding.

Traditionally, banks have built capital by earning the margin between low deposit rates and safe, longer-term fixed rate assets, such as government bonds. Today, the term premium – the difference between short and longer-term rates – has fallen sharply.

Attracting new capital requires that the industry’s long-term prospects be sound. To the contrary, several structural factors are creating uncertainty about the future of banks and may have permanently reduced available returns.

Bank business models in several countries are in need of major reform, which means consolidation and cost reductions ahead. Many countries where banks need assistance remain resistant to foreign ownership, capital and expertise that might help them become more efficient.

Poor institutional and legal frameworks, especially inefficient bankruptcy procedures, discourage new investment in banks or distressed assets. Foreclosures in Italy can take more than four years, compared to 18 months in the US or UK.

In many emerging markets, the pervasive influence of the state among both banks and borrowers complicates the enforcement of claims. Politically connected borrowers can force loans to be rescheduled forever rather than recognised as unrecoverable.

Unanticipated political developments are added complications. Energy prices are affected by geopolitics as much as market forces. The Brexit vote has rippled through the banking system by driving down the pound and radically altering prospects for British financial institutions.

In Italy, political factors are impeding the recapitalisation of banks. European Union procedures require progressively writing down equity, subordinated debt and then senior debt, protecting only insured deposits.

But “bailing in” creditors in this way would result in writing down around $US220 billion of securities held by retail investors, creating a political headache for the government.

At the same time, EU banking regulations as well as budgetary and debt limits make it hard for the Italian government to intervene.

Whether a crisis might begin there, perhaps as some fear with the world’s oldest bank, Monte dei Paschi de Siena, is impossible to say.

But regulators everywhere should be asking themselves some tough questions: Has the financialisation of advanced economies gone too far?

Does the role of banking need to be altered to ensure that such crises are less frequent? Increasingly, the answer to both would seem to be yes.

Source: Bloomberg

 

 

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169 Comments leave one →
  1. Tom R permalink
    July 29, 2016 12:47 pm

    But regulators everywhere should be asking themselves some tough questions: Has the financialisation of advanced economies gone too far?

    Does the role of banking need to be altered to ensure that such crises are less frequent? Increasingly, the answer to both would seem to be yes.

    Dopey idiots sitting in their glass castles. They miss the REAL culprit.

    BLOODY UNIONS!! (BOO!)

  2. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 29, 2016 8:18 pm

    This is a nice thread.

  3. Bancor permalink
    July 29, 2016 9:13 pm

    (Yes.)

  4. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 30, 2016 5:58 am

    Losing our AAA credit rating is not a harbinger of doom. It could be a blessing in disguise
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/12/losing-our-aaa-credit-rating-is-not-a-harbinger-of-doom-it-could-be-a-blessing-in-disguise

    …The judgement of John Maynard Keynes that “when the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done” has been shown to be well-founded.

    Of all the actors on the financial markets, none have failed more spectacularly than ratings agencies. In the lead-up to the GFC, AAA ratings were tossed around like confetti, being awarded to derivative securities that were ultimately based on home mortgages that could not possibly be repaid when prices inevitably fell. Hundreds of these allegedly gold-plated securities went into default. Only when disaster was already obvious did the agencies fix their ratings..

    …The more serious problem is that the maintenance of a AAA rating requires a policy of holding down debt, even at the cost of forgoing socially beneficial investments.

    Exactly the same logic applies to corporations. The investment policy required to maintain a AAA rating is so conservative as to ensure that many profitable investments are foregone. Only two US corporations (Microsoft and Johnson & Johnson) now maintain AAA ratings on their debt. Microsoft has recently chosen to risk a downgrade by purchasing LinkedIn, a step that makes obvious business sense, but implies a need for more debt. Soon, AAA-rated corporate debt will be nothing but a memory…

  5. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 30, 2016 11:34 am

    Losing our AAA credit rating is not a harbinger of doom. It could be a blessing in disguise

    Back in leftie laa laa land hey AO. Let us not worry about debt but eat drink and be merry and stuff everybody else.

    When i clicked on the link and saw it was written by John Quiggen i wanted to throw up. Quiggen, Koukoulas, Pater Martin. bernard Keane all leftie fools

  6. Tom R permalink
    July 30, 2016 3:02 pm

    seems like a lot of ‘journalists’ bought the mediscare lie by the libs without much thought at all

  7. July 30, 2016 4:08 pm

    lt is the same old story isn`t it. Half the world is financial basket-cases and pretending they`re not. While the other half of the world is doing all it can to make itself a financial basket case.

  8. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 30, 2016 6:16 pm

    A credit rating reflects international confidence in the ability of a state/country to meet it’s commitments. Why would anyone prefer less confidence?

  9. Tom R permalink
    July 30, 2016 6:52 pm

    Why would anyone prefer less confidence?

    I think the point is yomm, is that there is no confidence in the agencies who are providing said confidence.

    Not confidently anyway 😉

  10. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 30, 2016 7:14 pm

    A credit rating reflects international confidence in the ability of a state/country to meet it’s commitments.

    According to lefties we are sovereign in our currency so can always meet its commitments.

    seems like a lot of ‘journalists’ bought the mediscare lie by the libs without much thought at all

    Apparently the Medicare payments system is outdated and old and needs to be replaced. There was some talk in privatising that. There is no way Medicare would be privatised because what retard would buy it? It is a huge loss making enterprise

  11. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 30, 2016 8:58 pm

    https://www.efa.org.au/privacy/census-2016/

  12. Tom R permalink
    July 31, 2016 8:58 am

    There was some talk in privatising that.

    Cabinet discussions, that are then denied, is more than ‘some talk’ nil. It had got well past the ‘back of a coaster’ stage. And if privatising the core responsibility isn’t ‘privatising’ that company, perhaps you have a better description.

    I’ll admit, just for this example alone, it might not be totally accurate, although it is not far off. But people know the truth. The libs want it gone. And the proof is in their combined actions.

  13. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    July 31, 2016 9:18 am

    Is contracting and outsourcing privatisation?

  14. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 31, 2016 10:45 am

    Is contracting and outsourcing privatisation?

    Yes and no, depends on the degree doesn’t it?

    If you shift the management and operations of the service from the public to the private sector, yes

    If the government keeps an almost empty officewith little or no staff of it’s own [or has no office] and the functions of the business are performed by the private sector, yes.

    Why do supposed australia post employees wear star track uniforms?

    Why do the australian public end up paying more for a lesser quality service?

    Pitfalls of privatisation: ideologues will repeat mistakes
    http://www.themandarin.com.au/17468-potential-pitfalls-privatisation-ideologues-doomed-repeat-mistakes-past/?pgnc=1

    ‘Crude outsourcing’: Baird government’s privatisation plans
    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/crude-outsourcing-baird-governments-privatisation-plans-20160624-gprjw3.html

    …Public Service Association acting general secretary Steve Turner said “contestability and privatisation are usually used in the same sentence”.

    He said Mr Sturgess worked for many years with prisons company Serco, one of the biggest beneficiaries of privatisation worldwide…

    The Privatization Scam: 5 Horror Stories of Gov’t Outsourcing to Greedy Private Companies
    http://www.alternet.org/economy/privatization-scam-5-horror-stories-govt-outsourcing-greedy-private-companies

  15. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 31, 2016 10:58 am

    Academy chain accused of ‘privatisation by stealth’ over plan to outsource jobs
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/sep/20/academy-school-chain-outsource-jobs-privatisation-by-stealth

    …The largest academy chain in the country is seeking to outsource all non-teaching posts in its 77 schools, from librarians to caretakers, to a for-profit organisation within the next month.

    In a step that critics fear is a major step to putting profit-making at the heart of the state school system, the Academy Enterprise Trust has selected PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), one of the world’s largest auditors, with a specialism in tax accountancy, as a partner in the plan…

    The privatisation of Centrelink: a recipe for a bigger disaster than Centrelink already is
    http://thestringer.com.au/the-privatisation-of-centrelink-a-recipe-for-a-bigger-disaster-than-centrelink-already-is-11598#.V51MKbh97IU

    …The report paved the way for the Government’s plan to move towards privatisation of the Department of Human Services including Centrelink, Medicare and Child Support services.
    Aware of the political risks of the outright privatisation of Centrelink, the Abbott/Turnbull Government has adopted a strategy of ‘privatisation by stealth and increments’.
    In September 2015, the Abbott/Turnbull Government and the Department of Human Services sought bids from private sector partners under its billion-dollar, “once-in-a-generation” welfare systems replacement for the software platform to support a new payments engine.
    Outsourcing of Centrelink services is another form of privatisation by stealth…

  16. Tom R permalink
    July 31, 2016 11:51 am

    Is contracting and outsourcing privatisation?

    If it is to a private company, of course outsourcing is.

    But in this context, it is irrelevant, as they were not doing either, their plan was to sell the service to a private concern.

    ‘privatisation by stealth and increments’.

    Exactly ao, and the voters understood that, even if the churnalists pretended they didn’t

  17. armchair opinionator permalink
    July 31, 2016 12:46 pm

    Exactly ao, and the voters understood that, even if the churnalists pretended they didn’t

    Governments know that the public hates privatisation, we get reduced services, reduced quality and pay more for it. We’ve had a gutful of neoliberal economics, ripoff merchants and corrupt rent seeking and a gutful of lazy, greedy australian business exploiting taxpayers through lobbying and collusion with politicians rather than their own efforts.
    Yet still they ignore and persist with it.

    Cascade falls as ICAC vindicated
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2016/07/30/cascade-falls-icac-vindicated/14698008003551

    …The Cascade Coal story gives us a fascinating insight into business life beneath the surface, and it’s worth trawling through some of the details. This is the ICAC investigation that counsel assisting the inquiry, Geoffrey Watson, described as “the most important investigation ever undertaken” by the commission.

    It bears the tag line: “Corruption on a scale probably unexceeded since the days of the Rum Corps.”…

    …In an interview with the paper, Watson said: “I have done all these cases involving the Labor Party, the police associations … Boy, they are hard. But I have never known anybody to kick and scratch more than the bloody Liberal Party.”…

    …You know when the captains of industry and their cabin boys in parliament call for hearings to be held in private, and for findings to be expunged from the record if charges are not laid, that what they are really hoping for is a Clayton’s corruption commission.

    The lobbying is going on right now to ensure that if there is a Canberra-based ICAC at all it will be neutered from the start. That’s why it’s valuable for the community to know what happened at the latter-day Rum Rebellion, with Cascade Coal and its directors and the politicians who tried to make off with the assets of the state…

  18. Neil of Sydney permalink
    July 31, 2016 1:58 pm

    Governments know that the public hates privatisation, we get reduced services, reduced quality and pay more for it.

    Then why do they do it? I suspect you may be wrong.

    One reason they do it is to reduce debt. That is why Costello sold Telstra. But what is the point? As soon as the next Labor govt gets back in they trash the budget and blow out the debt again.

  19. July 31, 2016 10:25 pm

    AO,,,,,,,,,,Governments know that the public hates privatisation, we get reduced services, reduced quality and pay more for it. We`ve had a gutful of neoliberal economics, ripoff merchants and corrupt rent seeking and a gutful of lazy, greedy australian business exploiting taxpayers through lobbying and collusion with politicians rather than their own efforts. Yet still they ignore and persist with it,,,,,,

    # ,, so has teh-usa armchair, it is part of what the-ronald has tapped into (along with self-interest) and why he will probably romp home (provided he doesn`t do something spectacularly stupid)

  20. August 1, 2016 12:15 am

    armchair,,,,Gov`t Outsourcing to Greedy Private Companies,,,,, #notice they`re doing the same crap here at both the fuderal and state/s level. l know boltsville `city-east` freeway or highway you guys have has the exact same `non-compete` clauses that indiana is stuck with, as does some of our `tunnel-motorways` do in jonestown.

    The private-prison section omitted the `slave-labor` aspect that goes along with some of them. At one stage, the airlines credit-card billing, ticket-sales and customer service call centre was inside at least one prison in california, operated by prisoners on 50-cents an hour. You won`t hear that from cubicle dwellers that surf with venice-beach pinkists.

    While our teabags will continue to mindlessly chant the teabag kum-bah-yar, what they won`t be forth-coming with is all the additional cost to the taxpayer injected into the centerlink-pension and particulaly `dole-system` under its `various` brands. All the `service-fees` being charged to `assist` seekers to get jobs that aren`t being created, being used to funnel them into `private-educators` running dud courses for bullshit certificates, and worse still, costing some jobs in charities which now get paid to `receive-free` labor from work for dole slaves. Both teabag-media `and` the team are in a coma on this massive taxpayer-con.

  21. Tom R permalink
    August 1, 2016 1:25 pm

    I think the real question here reb should be “Is Australia ready for another 3 years of incompetent hacks?”

    Everything, even/especially peoples lives, are a political tool to them.

    Will they discuss this with any Aboriginal people from the NT this time? Or with Labor?

  22. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 1, 2016 2:04 pm

    Just be grateful that we don’t have an equivalent of Donald Trump.

    What a bizarre C**T he is. FITH and what a weak character

  23. August 1, 2016 2:19 pm

    Far be it for me to speculate, but I’m firmly of the view that we’re heading for another global financial meltdown.

    The RBA is set to cut interest rates again tomorrow with more cuts predicted into 2017.

    At some point they are going to go up and when they do it’s going to be Arma-fkn-geddon…

  24. TB Queensland permalink
    August 1, 2016 2:57 pm

    Two decisions Rudd and Martin … both really silly … in one week …

    Turnbull is no decision maker …

  25. TB Queensland permalink
    August 1, 2016 3:04 pm

    At some point they are going to go up and when they do it’s going to be Arma-fkn-geddon

    Looking at all the current flashpoints – you may well be right but in more ways than finance …

    The bullets come out of the tube at the front … ~(8-( )

  26. Tom R permalink
    August 1, 2016 3:07 pm

    Just be grateful that we don’t have an equivalent of Donald Trump.

    Does “mr shirtfront, onion eater, women of substance, died of shame, how about me girls hey, nice sorts”. Need I go on?

    but I’m firmly of the view that we’re heading for another global financial meltdown.

    another prophet of disaster.
    Who says this ship is lost.
    Another prophet of disaster.
    Leaving you to count the cost

  27. Tom R permalink
    August 1, 2016 3:09 pm

    Turnbull is no decision maker …

    Nope, and rudds already started on him. I just wonder if he will be bringing utegate back up again or not?

    The bullets come out of the tube at the front

    Oh, no cannonballs did fly, no rifles cut us down
    No bombs fell from the sky, no blood soaked the ground
    No powder flash blinded the eye, no deathly thunder sound
    But just as sure as the hand of God, they brought death to my hometown…

  28. August 1, 2016 3:42 pm

    Just be grateful that `they` don`t have an equivalent of rabbit.

  29. August 1, 2016 3:44 pm

    The,,,,bullets come out of the tube at the front,,,, (-: (-: (-: (-:

  30. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 1, 2016 3:45 pm

    Turnbull is no decision maker …

    I agree. But he is intelligent.

    But what you need in politics is wisdom. And that is why most ALP policies fail. ALP politicians are not very wise

  31. Walrus permalink
    August 1, 2016 3:50 pm

    “Nope, and rudds already started on him.”

    Fucking Rudd carries on like he’s Turnbull’s own personal “Bunny Boiler”

  32. Walrus permalink
    August 1, 2016 3:52 pm

    “But what you need in politics is wisdom.”

    Yep !

    Knowledge is knowing that tomatoes are a type of fruit

    Wisdom is knowing not to put them into a fruit salad

  33. August 1, 2016 3:53 pm

    But,,,,he is intelligent,,,,

    Yes he is very `intelligent` in a godwin-email, fiber-network-innovation, double-dissolution way.

  34. August 1, 2016 4:07 pm

    Rest assured, tomato-fruit-salad is the favorite menu item at Limited-News, ipa and teabag-hq.

  35. Walrus permalink
    August 1, 2016 4:07 pm

    “Far be it for me to speculate, but I’m firmly of the view that we’re heading for another global financial meltdown…….The RBA is set to cut interest rates again tomorrow with more cuts predicted into 2017..”

    “Definition of Financial Repression

    Financial repression is a term used to describe measures sometimes used by governments to boost their coffers and/or reduce debt. These measures include the deliberate attempt to hold down interest rates to below inflation, representing a tax on savers and a transfer of benefits from lenders to borrowers”

    http://lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=financial-repression

  36. August 1, 2016 4:22 pm

    Or is it just a bullshit term to cover-up stagflation cause by too higher number of consumers in precarious (junk) employment?????

  37. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 1, 2016 4:50 pm

    Yes he is very `intelligent` in a godwin-email, fiber-network-innovation, double-dissolution way.

    You obviously did not get what i was trying to say. Walrus got it. See his post at 3.52PM.

    Although i most probably would defend Turnbull re: NBN. We are stuck with Rudd/Conroy NBN. Signed contracts mean we have no alternative now. Turnbull changed it from FTTP to FTTN so we get in finished within 50 years instead of 100 and do not bankrupt the country.

  38. August 1, 2016 4:55 pm

    Thanks for that link Walrus…

    Here’s another one… 😉

    “”Financial repression is an outgrowth of bloated government budgets and enormous government debts. It is the worst way of dealing with government debt and actually works against the proper ways of addressing fiscal problems…

    The effects of financial repression cause economic harm throughout the productive sectors of the economy including workers, savers, entrepreneurs, retirees, and pensions. It hurts the insurance industry that protects our lives, homes, health, and property. The economic beneficiaries include the big banks and Wall Street, the national government itself, and certain large corporations.””

    Talcumnomics?

    https://mises.org/library/meaning-financial-repression

  39. Tom R permalink
    August 1, 2016 4:56 pm

    More on the wind farm debacle from the media morons in our country

    How the campaign against South Australian windfarms backfired

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/01/windfarms-unfairly-blamed-for-south-australias-high-energy-prices?CMP=twt_a-environment_b-gdneco

  40. Walrus permalink
    August 1, 2016 5:18 pm

    “What made the problem possible was that the main interconnector that allows energy to be traded between South Australia and Victoria was undergoing maintanence….Then there was a surge of cold weather, causing South Australians to turn on their heaters, driving demand through the roof…..gas was at record high prices due to a booming export market. ……………….On top of all that, the weather was not favourable to windfarms.”

    Do people at the Guardian sit around a table smoking crack cocaine pissing themselves laughing while they write this rubbish.

    So because SA could not access any coal fuel electricity from other states its not the unreliability of Wind Power (that is trying to fill the coal fire gap) that can be blamed. Nor I assume the fact that SA now has no coal fuel power stations and therefore is forced to turn to gas for extra power.

    And because people wanted to turn on heaters its not the unreliability of Wind Power that can be blamed. Blame that on Winter

    And because one particular fossil fuel was at record prices its not the unreliability of Wind Power that can be blamed.

    And because there was no wind its not the unreliability of Wind Power that can be blamed.

  41. August 1, 2016 5:38 pm

    They just had bananaland gas exports on my abc-business which said, gas consumers in japan are paying `heaps`? less than Aust-consumers can buy their `own` gas. Options/spots`n forward contracts blah, blah, blah. But doesn`t help folks here.

  42. TB Queensland permalink
    August 1, 2016 5:59 pm

    The RBA is set to cut interest rates again tomorrow with more cuts predicted into 2017..”

    And, as a central bank, its “existence” is to “protect” the commercial banks … and is actually “isolated” deliberately from the government (who have no say, no control in what the RBA does – and that demonstrated Hockey’s ignorance … or deceit … when he “gave” the RBA $9 billion they didn’t need or want

    So much for a “free” market? Manipulated by banks, big business lobbies, pollies personal agendas and other countries … certainly not ordinary Australians …

    Cutting interest rates tomorrow will only help banks (and shackle borrowers) destroy the savings of “savers” (who always seem to suffer as banks, government and business continually benefit) …

    And when the war comes – who actually fights it?

    I’m reading “The Vietnam Years” right now – I strongly suggest you do too …

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/book-reviews/the-vietnam-years/2007/09/18/1189881496376.html

    Long Tan is covered extremely well …

    … but what has always struck me is that 11 of the 18 Diggers KIA at Long Tan were National Servicemen …

    Who fights the wars? Bankers? Businessmen/women? Politicians? Or their children?

    Nah! We do!

  43. August 1, 2016 6:44 pm

    finished,,,,within 50 years,,,,

    According to two ex-telecom`s l know, they told me l was `delusionally-optimistic` that it would be 2050 before finished with fiber. The ex-telecom`s reckon the copper `dead-zones` will be there until 2100 or more, until `finished-with-fiber`.

    lf it aint `finished-with-fiber`, then it aint `finished`.

  44. Tom R permalink
    August 1, 2016 6:44 pm

    So because SA could not access any coal fuel electricity from other states its not the unreliability of Wind Power

    As I have previously stated, SA had power cuts because our coal fired plants could not supply enough power. It’s not a wind power specific issue. And, as one of the previous links showed, if Tassie had got theirs up and running already (wind turbines), this would not have happened at all.

    And because one particular fossil fuel was at record prices

    Which explains why the prices skyrocketted. But they want to blame it wind, even though the drawbacks are well known, and the gas stations were contracted just for this purpose

  45. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 1, 2016 7:20 pm

    – and that demonstrated Hockey’s ignorance … or deceit … when he “gave” the RBA $9 billion they didn’t need or want …

    I think that statement is wrong

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/let-us-keep-dividend-rba-urged-swan-20130411-2hnw5.html

    The Reserve Bank projects it will have $550 million available for distribution in the 12 months to June 30, a year after it was forced to hand the government almost half its earnings against Governor Glenn Stevens’s wishes, documents show.

    Mr Stevens urged Treasurer Wayne Swan to forego a dividend from the RBA for the year to June 2012 to allow the governor to rebuild a buffer drained by the high currency.

    ‘‘This would be consistent with your earlier agreement to this approach to begin the process of restoring the balance of this Reserve,’’ Mr Stevens wrote in a July 13, 2012, letter to Mr Swan released today under a Freedom of Information Act request by Bloomberg News.

    Mr Swan rebuffed the request, and asked for a $500 million dividend from the RBA, saying it was ‘‘appropriate’’ that taxpayers receive the payment……The Reserve Fund, which provides the capacity for the RBA to absorb losses, stood at $1.9 billion in February, Mr Stevens told a parliamentary panel in Canberra on February 22. He said that when the central bank held between $6 billion and $7 billion ‘‘that was roughly at the target at the time.’’

    Wrong again TB.They did need it.

  46. August 1, 2016 7:50 pm

    Somebody will enjoy the `united-voice` story on reportland tonight.

  47. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 1, 2016 8:39 pm

  48. August 1, 2016 9:47 pm

    lt is quite funny hearing the pinkists on qandaland trying to make the case for the UNgoughed to receive talkbulls support, oh how quickly they have forgotten `the-govt-of-disarray`

  49. August 1, 2016 10:50 pm

    tingle,,,,,,,,Australia`s welfare payments system annually delivers more than $110 billion of payments to over four million households,,,,,,,

    # ,, l saw/heard recently that the `welfare` cost to tax-payers was $180-bill armchair

    # ,, so as we were discussing `privatization` recently, we can see that `contractors` are probably sucking-up the best part of $70-bill taxpayer hard-earned

  50. August 1, 2016 11:31 pm

    tingle,,,,,,,,,,,the current system`s age has made it particularly complex, difficult to make adjustments to, and it is rapidly running out of technicians who can actually run it.

    The smallest tweaks to the system, whether changes to payments or even changing a letterhead, is a major, costly exercise,,,,,,,,,

    # ,, no doubt the fetish of sacking every fcuker they can possibly get away with, amplifies this problem #teabags

  51. August 2, 2016 7:43 am

    “The RBA is set to cut interest rates again tomorrow with more cuts predicted into 2017.”

    That’s the consensus view of 25 economists, apparently. It’s a prediction by experts. So just for the hell of it I’m going to say they’ll remain on hold. (That’s also a prediction, so equally worthless.)

  52. Walrus permalink
    August 2, 2016 9:17 am

    “As I have previously stated, SA had power cuts because our coal fired plants could not supply enough power.”

    Really TomR ?

    Or perhaps the “coal fired plants could not supply enough power” because you no longer have any ????????????????

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Australia#Coal_fired

  53. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 9:36 am

    Or perhaps the “coal fired plants could not supply enough power” because you no longer have any

    You really are blindingly stupid sometime wally when you have a preconceived notion between your gums.

    Note I said “previously”

    As in, back before we had wind, and when we only had coal.

    Every summer, we had rolling blackouts, because the ‘base load’ couldn’t cope with the ‘load’

    The fact that wind doesn’t blow all the time is known, and was planned for. When they had to fall back to their last recourse, this last recourse ripped them off.

    Of course, gas will now cry because they will be replaced by Tassie’s wind (or solar, or tidal)

    But replaced they will be, and I will personally applaud that day. If not only for the callous manner in which they have treated their consumers.

  54. TB Queensland permalink
    August 2, 2016 11:13 am

    “””” If not only for the callous manner in which they ARE treating their consumers.””””

    All over the country … what happened to the lower prices with “more competition” …

    … the gas belongs to the NATION and we pay more than overseas consumers for OUR gas …

    There’s something wrong with that … GREED!

  55. Walrus permalink
    August 2, 2016 11:23 am

    “Every summer, we had rolling blackouts, because the ‘base load’ couldn’t cope with the ‘load’.”

    And you dare to wonder why your state is a financial basket case that all other states have had an absolute gutful about propping it up ?

  56. Walrus permalink
    August 2, 2016 11:25 am

    “There’s something wrong with that … GREED!”

    It’s not called “Greed” it’s called a “Spot Price”

  57. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 2, 2016 11:46 am

    “… the gas belongs to the NATION and we pay more than overseas consumers for OUR gas … “

    Plug stupid populism …. Pauline Hanson on steroids!

  58. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 2, 2016 12:08 pm

    All over the country … what happened to the lower prices with “more competition” …

    I think you will find renewable energy is causing cost rises. Solar Bolus Schemes and RET add to electricity prices.

    And building a zillion dollar desal plant which has never been used adds to water bills. We built these desal plants because Tim Flannery said it would never rain again.

    Lefties trash everything they touch

  59. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 12:30 pm

    And you dare to wonder why your state is a financial basket case that all other states have had an absolute gutful about propping it up ?

    lol, we COULD have built more, but, working in a national market, we are told that Vic and NSW can supply, so we PAY them for it, except, of course, when the time comes, nope, they can’t produce it.

    Which is why SA is now going for it’s own sustainability.

    You know, like how we sell power from wind to Vic and NSW 😉

    And yea, “spot” markets is just a business term for ‘GREED’

    Call it what you want under fancy names, but it’s just another incarnation of the base desire.

    The National Electricity Market has become bastardised over the years by that base desire. It is designed to maximise profits now, not provide vital infrastructure, as it was planned for.

    This is the result of privatization, where profits come before people.

  60. Walrus permalink
    August 2, 2016 1:01 pm

    “And yea, “spot” markets is just a business term for ‘GREED’”

  61. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 1:06 pm

    Pretty sure it is just you wally.

    If gouging people because you can is not Greed, what do you call it?

    Of course, in the long run, the gas suppliers will be crying poor to Government, but, it really just serves them right for gouging them in the first place.

    The coal power stations did it to the populace for years.
    Look what that got them.

  62. August 2, 2016 2:19 pm

    vision-less east-coast dribble,,,,,zillion dollar desal plant,,,,,

    While dumbfcuks like ya`self was soooo busy denying reality during the john-w-era,

    the west-coast started their own desal project, with renew`s to power it, next to `old-coal` for back-up,

    west-coast parliament also discussed grid-abandonment due to high and growing take-up of renews by public, and eager bio-fuel wishes of business, which west-coast media reported,

    it was 21-months later before east-coast reportland reported on it, which l dropped here

    https://theguttertrash.com/search/desal/

  63. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 2, 2016 2:53 pm

    Yep. SA relied on old brown coal burning power stations in Victoria to rescue it.

    Great work!

  64. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 2, 2016 3:01 pm

    What will SA do when Victoria gets rid of its coal power stations?

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victoria-to-stop-pumping-out-carbon-dioxide-by-2050-premier-daniel-andrews-promises-20160608-gpey3r.html

    Victoria will emit no carbon dioxide by 2050, if a target announced by Premier Daniel Andrews on Thursday is met.

    It would mean no more burning coal for power in the Latrobe Valley and a big shift in how business operates and people run their homes.

    Sounds like a national suicide policy.

  65. TB Queensland permalink
    August 2, 2016 3:10 pm

    “And yea, “spot” markets is just a business term for ‘GREED’”

    Do overseas consumers pay less for gas than Australians?

    Yes

    No

  66. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 3:15 pm

    Yep. SA relied on old brown coal burning power stations in Victoria to rescue it.
    Great work!

    Yep. Vic relied on new wind powered power stations in SA to rescue it.
    Great work! 😉

    http://energy4b.com.au/information-centre/australia-power-generation-mix/

  67. August 2, 2016 3:18 pm

    pom-poms,,,,,working in a national market,,,,

    # ,, wrong, canoeland is part of the east-coast grid, NT and WA have their own. Canoeland would probably be better-off being self-sufficient and off the east-coast grid.

  68. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 3:35 pm

    What will SA do when Victoria gets rid of its coal power stations?

    Maybe I should have mentioned Tassies wind generators 😯

    These numbers suggest that building out wind farms in NSW and Tasmania would likely have the most impact on reducing the volatility in NEM-wide output.

    ……………….

    As has been well documented, when the wind blows in South Australia the pool electricity price falls. The increase in supply drives down the price.

    So, whilst their are small “spot” incidents of gas gouging consumers (or those dumb enough not to settle on a fixed price), for most of the time, wind lowers the price.

    Of course, THAT little statistical blip is ignored by murdochs minions.

  69. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 3:51 pm

  70. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 2, 2016 4:04 pm

    So Tom R, you turned on Rudd in the most vindictive manner after Gillard rolled him, you still showed intense dislike of him when he returned as PM.

    But now you support his application to run the UN?

    (Whereas I voted for the ALP in 2013, and wouldn’t have objected to him being nominated as UN Sec Gen, but I can understand why he didn’t get government backing)

  71. August 2, 2016 4:10 pm

    “Yep. Vic relied on new wind powered power stations in SA to rescue it.
    Great work!😉”

    Tom R, I’m quite surprised at that. However the link you provided only mentions Victoria exporting electricity, not importing it. Am I missing something?

  72. August 2, 2016 4:18 pm

    As you were. I’ve worked it out. Even though all Victoria’s import bars are downwards (exports) that just means they are net exporters. Apparently at times they used SA wind power but exported more to SA, NSW and TAS than they imported from SA..

  73. TB Queensland permalink
    August 2, 2016 4:22 pm

    But now you support his application to run the UN?

    Do some research – the Secretary General doesn’t “run” the UN …

  74. August 2, 2016 4:28 pm

    Hey team-cheerer, don`t let these east-coast dills give you any guff about canoeland or winter spot prices. Canoeland exports more juice than they import according to news/docos l`ve seen. The main thing for canoeland citizens to consider is that they don`t let their state pollies (of-any-flavor) just blindly follow the east-coast twits, and they should check what the west-coast (which-is-way-more-innovative) does to solve their own problems.

  75. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 4:41 pm

    the Secretary General doesn’t “run” the UN …

    Yea, climate scientists do!

    I’ve worked it out.

    I knews ya wood 😉

  76. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 2, 2016 4:52 pm

    So who (other than Kecin Rudd) thinks Kev would be a suitable Sec Gen?

  77. Walrus permalink
    August 2, 2016 4:57 pm

    “Do overseas consumers pay less for gas than Australians?”

    As you would already know it’s a contracted price that would have been settled on before the gas could be brought online.

    So a Yes or No is completely misleading if you look at all the facts

  78. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 5:01 pm

    As you would already know it’s a contracted price

    So, where is their “spot” market?

  79. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 5:02 pm

    So who (other than Kecin Rudd) thinks Kev would be a suitable Sec Gen?

    Shouldn’t that decision be left up to, you know, the UN?

    But from what I hear about the UN from certain RWDB’s, then he sounds like he’s perfectly suited.

  80. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 5:07 pm

    I’m really getting nervous about this census coming up. This is glaringly obviously a massive fail

    In the past, the ABS would take all the data (gender, religion, education etc) and junk the names and addresses within 18 months.
    The ABS now wants to keep them. The names and the addresses will be split and given a randomised identification figure (called a “statistical linkage key”), which will be kept apart from the rest of the data.

    ……….

    But demographers are warning people to cool their jets, arguing that keeping this randomised identification information will allow the ABS to provide more accurate data.
    “Take for instance indigenous life expectancy figures,” said Dr Liz Allen, a demographer at Australian National University.
    She told BuzzFeed News: “When indigenous people die, we need a third party to identify whether they were indigenous. The new census allows checks against what the individual has actually reported. It’s much more accurate.”

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/wtf-is-census-fail?utm_term=.se0zkP42J#.yrNogp7ry

    Um, so, still able to be easily matched up is what you are saying?

    It’s a friggin hackers paradise.

    Me, I think I’ll be going with paper, and illegibility 😉

  81. Walrus permalink
    August 2, 2016 5:16 pm

    “So, where is their “spot” market?”

    Anywhere that there is an unreliable energy source…………………….like windfarms

  82. Walrus permalink
    August 2, 2016 5:36 pm

    “…….allows checks against what the individual has actually reported……..”

    That sounds just like homogenising of old weather data.

    It allows checks AGAINST what the individual has actually reported.

  83. TB Queensland permalink
    August 2, 2016 6:00 pm

    So a Yes or No is completely misleading if you look at all the facts

    Oh dear, fudge, fudge, weasel, fudge …

    ‘Tis a simple question … yes or no … then we can continue our discussion on why or why not …

    Shouldn’t that decision be left up to, you know, the UN?

    And strangely enough it is … Turnbull hasn’t made an intelligent decision since he took over the wheel … proving that having a motza in the bank does not make you a ” businessman” … he would fail miserably in the organisations I’ve had the privilege to work for and with …

    I mean – Attilla The Hun had more treasure than any other Hun too … and then look at the poor old Mad Abbott … still paying off the mortgage and HE was in charge before TurnAbbott … The Mad Abbott’s daughter is doing well tho’ …

    Where would the world be without cronyism and nepotism? Devoid of the Liberal, National and (in the UK) the Conservative Parties …

    So who (other than Kecin Rudd) thinks Kev would be a suitable Sec Gen?

    So what happened to solidarity – Rudd’s an Australian he should have been supported …

    Why are Liberal RWNJs so nationally nasty and divisive … with us, or against us, shyte!

    And then wonder why half the population will not be dictated to by communistic fascists who burble about free enterprise and then attempt to control it at every fkn move … in their favour … profits up – wages down!

    You cannot have it both ways …

    Back to Rudd … you do realise that this partisan decision will come back to bite TurnAbbott and his right wing puppeteers on their pimply arses SOON …

    Did no-one on the right of politics realise what just happened in the election? Majority of one in the reps … the senate even more volatile … and not a mandate in sight … in a word – fucked!

    And therefore a stagnated country for another three years … unless reasonableness re-enters the halls of legislation in Canberra – a tall call, methinks.

  84. TB Queensland permalink
    August 2, 2016 6:02 pm

    I do feel better, thanks Blogmeister!

  85. TB Queensland permalink
    August 2, 2016 6:02 pm

    Me, I think I’ll be going with paper, and illegibility😉

    LOL! neel will have no probs …

  86. Walrus permalink
    August 2, 2016 6:08 pm

    “Why are Liberal RWNJs so nationally nasty and divisive … with us, or against us, shyte!”

    “We dodged a bullet, now that (Kevin) Rudd’s not gonna be (UN) secretary-general,”

    -Peter Garrett Friday 29 July 2016

  87. Walrus permalink
    August 2, 2016 6:11 pm

    “‘Tis a simple question … yes or no … ”

    Well you might think it is but you are wrong.

    It’s the same as saying someone paying 3.8% on a fixed rate home loan sholud be paying the same as someone on a variable rate.

    You are just trying to make an absolutely ridiculous argument where there is a dual market

  88. August 2, 2016 6:25 pm

    tb,,,,the population will not be dictated to by communistic fascists who burble about free enterprise and then attempt to control it at every fkn move,,,,#agree

    ,,,,communistic fascists,,,,, (-: (-: (-: #That`s a brilliant `term` teebz, Love-it

    # ,, the prime meddling puppet is learning the very-hard lesson that his `charm` and `spouting` are no-where near as effective on folks that aren`t paid to be subordinate to him too, unlike his previous corporate career where every cubicle dweller would `swoon` in his mere presence

  89. TB Queensland permalink
    August 2, 2016 7:29 pm

    -Peter Garrett Friday 29 July 2016

    So you are now a fan of PG ’cause he suits your narrative … you pink batts hypocrite …

    You are just trying to make an absolutely ridiculous argument where there is a dual market

    Dual market? Whose wrong? … the market is gouging Australian consumers and you know it! (And its illegal)

    Note: I do not use gas … hot water – solar … power – solar …

  90. August 2, 2016 8:14 pm

    Thank dog we have the talking-head circuit to fall back on now the CRM is down to 5-bucks. Gate-keeping low hanging lone-fruit like Hanson is more economical, than say Bernardi, Abetz, or Morrison type nuts that might bite-back more effectively, considering they are actually nut-jobs with power. Lib, Lab and media beating-up on Hanson. At least we can relive the 1990`s.

  91. Tom R permalink
    August 2, 2016 10:27 pm

    Anywhere that there is an unreliable energy source…………………….like windfarms

    Or Fukushima Nuclear reactors.

    Or interconnectors that break down.

    Or gas turbines that fail (just as everything else does … not that I don’t not believe in ‘co-incidence’ 😉 )

  92. Walrus permalink
    August 3, 2016 9:00 am

    “Or Fukushima Nuclear reactors.

    Or interconnectors that break down.

    Or gas turbines that fail…..”

    You really don’t get it do you ?

    If you want a fixed price contract then you also need to take a fixed volume of Gas otherwise you go to the Spot Price Market

  93. Tom R permalink
    August 3, 2016 10:52 am

    If you want a fixed price contract then you also need to take a fixed volume of Gas otherwise you go to the Spot Price Market

    So, you are saying, this can happen in any situation then, and is not solely the responsibility of wind, which is very well known not to blow all the time.

    That’s all we really need to know.

    Of course, once we get more wind turbines up in other regions of the country, then this problem will disappear, along with the fossils, and electricity will be provenly cheaper.

  94. TB Queensland permalink
    August 3, 2016 11:05 am

    … and electricity will be provenly cheaper.

    Until its privatised, monopolised, duopolised and bastardised, TR …

  95. Tom R permalink
    August 3, 2016 11:20 am

    Until its privatised, monopolised, duopolised and bastardised, TR …

    touche TB 😉

  96. Walrus permalink
    August 3, 2016 5:20 pm

    “……….which is very well known not to blow all the time.”

    TomR when the wind dont blow

  97. Walrus permalink
    August 3, 2016 5:29 pm

    “So, you are saying, this can happen in any situation then, and is not solely the responsibility of wind,”

    Nope

    A wind turbine and its power gereration capacity is limited to the speed of the wind. A Gas or Coal fired power station is limited to the overall capacity of its generators as designed.

    They can produce more or less only dependent on the stockpile of gas or coal sitting outside somewhere. And a phone call can increase that

    Have you worked out how to store wind yet ?

  98. August 3, 2016 6:05 pm

    “”when the wind don’t blow””

    The wind pretty much blows non-stop on the west coast of Tasmania.

    And also from one particular residence in Sydney’s northern beaches… 😉

  99. Walrus permalink
    August 3, 2016 6:09 pm

    “And also from one particular residence in Sydney’s northern beaches…”

    LOL

    Wind and Rain today !

  100. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 3, 2016 7:04 pm

    So now the Chief Fire Officer of the Metropolitan Fire Brigade is saying that an agreement similar to the CFA one would restrict its ability to respond to terror threats and emergencies!

    No doubt Tom R will point out that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, he’s only the Chief Fire Officer!

  101. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 3, 2016 7:10 pm

    What a dill Peter Rau must be, politicians would know far more about fighting fires and public safety!

    The long-running row over the enterprise bargaining agreement for the CFA has flared again, with the leak of a letter from the Metropolitan Fire Brigade’s chief officer in which he speaks out against possible safety concerns surrounding the proposed deal.
    MFB boss Peter Rau wrote to the Emergency Services Minister James Merlino in June outlining his concerns about the proposed CFA deal and warned against enforcing a similar agreement, which is now being negotiated, on the MFB.
    He said similar provisions could inhibit the brigade from taking actions that might be critical to the safety of the community.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-03/mfb-bosses-echoes-concerns-over-cfa-pay-deal/7684564

  102. Tom R permalink
    August 3, 2016 9:20 pm

    Lol @ yomms

    Did you read the rest of the article, down to where it mentions the claims were listened to, and then dismissed by FWA years ago.

    A rehashed piece of gossip that was addressed years ago, and union bashing numbnuts grab at it like drowning rats.

    Lol

  103. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 3, 2016 9:29 pm

    What? There is some statement by the union about FWA, with no context and that’s your reason for dismissing the concerns expressed by the senior public official (with a statutory responsibility for public safety)
    You’ve lost the plot

  104. Tom R permalink
    August 3, 2016 9:38 pm

    with no context

    Funny, that was the Union guys concerns about the manner in which the chief (who was fighting to prevent any conditions for the Firies) comments were presented.

    Still lolling at the gutter level reached by the union haterz (the abc well and truly in line with the rest of the media for a long time now on that score)

  105. Tom R permalink
    August 3, 2016 9:43 pm

    fer wally the wild wind blower from way back

  106. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 3, 2016 9:59 pm

    Yeah! What would the Chief Fire Officer know about running emergency servies. Better to leave those decisions to some FWA commissioner and the union!

    So we have –
    * an ALP minister resign rather than support the deal
    * the CFA Board against the deal – dismissed
    * the CEO of the CFA resign rather than support the deal
    * the CFA Chief Fire Officer against the deal
    * the MFB Chief Fire Officer against the deal

    In favour of the deal we have some ALP politicians, a former union official (now FWA commissioner), the UFU and Tom R

    Yep, the latter group has plenty of credibility in such matters

  107. August 3, 2016 10:04 pm

    with,,,,,no context,,,,, #Guffaw , that`s fcuking hilarious coming from mister no context no links no evidence no avoiding 16-jets down battlefield (-:

  108. TB Queensland permalink
    August 3, 2016 10:21 pm

    Have you worked out how to store wind yet ?

    But its on the way! And how!

    Sell them shares, baby!

  109. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 3, 2016 10:39 pm

    TB

    You have yet to apologise for this statement

    and that demonstrated Hockey’s ignorance … or deceit … when he “gave” the RBA $9 billion they didn’t need or want …

    Trouble is you are to proud and arrogant to admit you are wrong

    The Reserve Bank in writing made it clear they wanted to increase their reserves which had been depleted.

    Please apologise. But you never will no matter how many lives you destroy.

  110. Walrus permalink
    August 3, 2016 11:00 pm

    “Sell them shares, baby!”

    No I’ll be buying more .

    We are talking about power generation not storage I do hope you realise.

    Please keep up before commentating

  111. TB Queensland permalink
    August 3, 2016 11:15 pm

    Ignorance is no excuse …

    Please keep up before commentating

    Are you neels bro … read my comments properly … “” But its on the way! And how! “””

    Your snipping don’t count, cowgirl!

  112. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 7:10 am

    We are talking about power generation not storage I do hope you realise.

    SO, storing power for when those wild winds don’t blow isn’t a solution in your eyes then? Never the twain shall meet hey lol

    Speaking of lol, yomm. LOL

    Yea, all these rich cats in high places would rather resign than face the political decision they took to ignore the royal commissions findings, all so they can gouge the pay and conditions of full time firies.

    In favour of the deal we have

    You forgot, the Firies, the FWA, and the vast majority of the CFA, even those in the stations directly affected. It’s just a few Malcolmtents high up, not those on the front line, who are attempting to protect their fiefdoms from change that has been highlighted by a Royal Commission (and no, not one of those politically motivated ones the libs are famous for)

    Martin’s resignation and the NT Royal Commission

    https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/martins-resignation-and-the-nt-royal-commission,9306

    Which interestingly, led me to this story.

    Could big data soon make renewable energy storage free?

    https://independentaustralia.net/environment/environment-display/could-big-data-soon-make-renewable-energy-storage-free,9307

    And the final extinction of the concept of ‘base load’ power stations. Bye bye dinosaurs!

    The Reserve Bank in writing made it clear they wanted to increase their reserves which had been depleted.

    As I said nil, needs vs want. Of course they ‘want’ the money. But did they ‘need’ the money?

    Every-bodies reserves had been ‘depleted’ Hockey crapped on about returning the budget to surplus, and then proceeded to dole out money to mates at an alarming rate, well before their radical and afore unmentioned plan to try and grasp it all back from the poorest sections of the communities had failed through the 2014 budget, leaving then well behind from when they took over from Swan, and with no GFC to combat, at least back then. Is another on its way? Has hockey left us more exposed than we were before?

    Reckless spending indeed.

  113. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 7:19 am

    Tom R you’ll have to show me exactly where the Royal Commission recommended this agreement.

    Which recommendation was it… or was it ‘the vibe’?

  114. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 7:28 am

    Which recommendation was it…

    yomms back down the rabbit hole of his leaky memory valve

    But Tom R thinks, it’s only about them not doing what the Royal Commission recommended!!
    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/06/30/its-the-election/#comment-129360

  115. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 8:30 am

    You keep saying this agreement was part of the RC but then duck any actual quote from it.

    Which recommendation says an EBA of this nature is required?

    Just provide the actual recommendation.

    Otherwise I’d prefer to accept the professional and informed view of themost senior firefighting professionals in the state

  116. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 8:59 am

    Which recommendation says an EBA of this nature is required?
    As I said before, none, but the aspects being complained about are recommended in the commissions findings.

    But you go in circles for a while, as this has ALL been gone over before, I’ll just past comments from previous in answer to you future pasts, when I get back from my meeting.

  117. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:21 am

    As I said nil, needs vs want. Of course they ‘want’ the money. But did they ‘need’ the money?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/mckibbin-accuses-swan-of-economic-vandalism/5044474

    Warwick McKibbin fired the broadside at Mr Swan, accusing the former treasurer of being reckless with the central bank’s reserve fund.

    The new Treasurer, Joe Hockey, this week gave the bank an unprecedented $8.8 billion cash injection to replenish the fund, saying the ammunition was needed for the uncertain times ahead.

    Until the global financial crisis the fund held $6 billion on average. After the GFC it was depleted to $1.3 billion before recovering to $2.5 billion.

    Professor McKibbin said the rule of thumb was to have about 10 per cent of assets in the reserve fund, which traditionally would have been around $10 billion.

    “From the last annual report, we see the reserve fund was driven down below $2 billion, so adding $8 billion gets back to where we need to be without crisis,” he said. ……….The following year after I’d left, there was a small profit of over $1 billion. The treasurer was requested not to extract that from the balance sheet of the bank.

    “He ignored that request and took $500 million so that he could reach the budget surplus in 2012-13.

    “That to me is economic vandalism. It wasn’t that he may not have been asked to put more money in, but he was certainly asked not to take money out.”

  118. TB Queensland permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:25 am

    The following year after I’d left, …

    Sorta buggers up that “defence” … conflict of interest – much?

  119. Walrus permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:44 am

    “SO, storing power for when those wild winds don’t blow isn’t a solution in your eyes then? ”

    So why don’t you people in SA just do that now.

    Oh that’s right you are waiting for Tesla to do it for you thereby adding another layer of costs upon your now not so cheap renewables.

    The beauty of base load coal and gas is you dont need batteries and you can turn it up and turn it down at will.

    By the way you do realise that as the transmission wires get longer to the point of ultimate consumption you lose power as wasteage ?

    Nah…….didn’t think so

  120. Walrus permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:50 am

    “As I said before, none, ………………..”

    I think that means “it’s in the vibe”……………………..ROFL

    ToM………surely you know by now that our resident TomRoll is happy to run around in circles until he feels a desperate need to “have a meeting” whereupon he will revert to the his same previously proven wrong position so the process can repeat itself.

    Remember how he month after month continually tried to make out Craig Thomson settled favourably his defamation against Fairfax despite repeatedly being called out on it ?

    That’s his MO

  121. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:56 am

    As I said before, none, but the aspects being complained about are recommended in the commissions findings.

    So you’re not willimg to even cite the recommendations that you rely on to make the statement?

  122. August 4, 2016 10:17 am

  123. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 4, 2016 10:57 am

    “That’s his MO”

    Quite right. That insufferable Pommie troll is impervious to facts. He struts around the comments threads here like he is the greatest thing since flushable moist wipes!

  124. Walrus permalink
    August 4, 2016 12:04 pm

    Fucking Catlicks !

    “One woman has been killed and five hurt in a knife attack in central London, police said.
    ………….London Metropolitan Police confirmed that “up to six people were found injured” at Russell Square, in central London………….A female was treated at the scene but was pronounced dead a short time later,” the police said…..”

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/knife-attack-hits-central-london-report-20160804-gqkr1e.html

  125. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 4, 2016 12:21 pm

    This was one of the things Workchoices allowed

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/now-you-can-cash-out-annual-leave/news-story/22b08080126fb6ecfbe4dea359c540bd

    AROUND two million Australian workers can now “cash out” some of their excess annual leave under new rules that came into effect this week.

    Under the new clauses, inserted by the Fair Work Commission into 112 modern awards earlier this year, employees can cash out two weeks’ worth of accrued annual leave every 12 months, provided they still have four weeks remaining afterwards.

  126. Walrus permalink
    August 4, 2016 1:10 pm

    “Monetarising” annual leave is not what I’d call as ideal. I think making people take leave when its balance is large preferable and it is used in the finance area as an anti fraud internal control so that someone can be put onto leave and their work routine scrutinised in their absence

    But it is an independent body largely appointed by Gillard and KRudd.

    So I blame the ALP

  127. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 4, 2016 1:29 pm

    I think making people take leave when its balance is large preferable

    Me to. But this was one of the things the dastardly Workchoices allowed you to do.

  128. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 2:18 pm

    So why don’t you people in SA just do that now.

    Interesting that you should raise that 😉

    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2016/south-australia-targets-battery-storage-new-renewables-auction-61642

    By the way you do realise that as the transmission wires get longer to the point of ultimate consumption you lose power as wasteage ?

    Doesn’t that kinda support the idea of having a more distributed generation capacity? (yes, I was aware of that. Apparently, India uses DC transmission to lower their losses, so I recall reading many moons ago.)

    So you’re not willimg to even cite the recommendations that you rely on to make the statement?

    Does this bring back memories yomm? Yes, it’s going to be slow and arduous journey, or you could speed the process up.

    “Unambiguous command and control apparently means consult and agree!”

    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/07/21/rostrum-continued/#comment-130923

    Are you going to start on the non-existent ‘veto’ as well that I note theirabc uses with gay abandon as well, irrespective of the accuracy of the claim.

    I note someone mentioned Craig Thomson who for years was described as a criminal, yet no criminal charges were ever laid. And nobody ever corrected their assertions, did you yomm.

  129. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 3:01 pm

    Yeah! Go Danny! What would the Chief Fire Officer know about responding to fires and emergencies!

    Best leave all those decisions to union officials and a former union officials appointed to FWA

    Premier Daniel Andrews has failed to back Melbourne’s chief fire officer Peter Rau, who is under pressure after he wrote a letter warning that the controversial fire services award would be unworkable and dangerous.
    Asked directly on Thursday morning if he had confidence in Mr Rau, the Premier did not answer.

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/premier-refuses-to-back-fire-chief-who-slammed-controversial-award-20160804-gqku2a.html

  130. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 3:02 pm

    …and as you routinely refer to Royal Commission recommendations to support your contention about the EBA, just point to a recommendation you rely on.

  131. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 3:13 pm

    just point to a recommendation you rely on.

    I changed my mind. It’ a TomROLLS right! I’m not going to play and tease anymore, I’m just going to shove your words back down your throat.

    I see the RC does say – “This would involve improvements to common
    operational policy and standards, stronger coordination and unambiguous command and control
    I think “unambiguous command and control” is quite different to giving the union the right of veto over operational decisions.
    …and the issue has never been about the pay, it’s about delivering control of a volunteer organisation to a union, for political expediency.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/06/30/its-the-election/#comment-129350

    it’s about delivering control of a volunteer organisation to a Professional organization, you know, like Professional Firies. You know, like what the eba is attempting to achieve (amongst other things, like pay rises, and non veto voting rights)

    Twist on yer own words yomm

  132. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 3:25 pm

    So the RC recommends unambiguous command and control. Fine. I think that’s what the Chief Fire Officers of CFA and MFB are seeking

    But your interpretation of this is to strip rights volunteers from volunteers and deliver that to the UFU.

    What is “unambiguous command and control” about a requirement to “consult and agree” with a union?

  133. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 3:34 pm

    I think that’s what the Chief Fire Officers of CFA and MFB are seeking.

    Can you point to WHERE the CFA has shown any inclination for that? Your ‘thinking’ flies in the face of their reaction to the Union trying to make that a legitimate change.

    They bristle at even the merest suggestion of Professional Firies getting involved at any level, even though, they are ‘Professionals’

    After all the examples of where the CFA need to improve and listen to others, they back away, and blame the Unions for their own failings.

  134. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 3:35 pm

    Perhaps you need to re-read this before you go off making bullshit accusations again.

    http://www.ufuvic.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/CFA-EBA-Negotiations-UFU-Response-to-Media-Claims1.pdf

  135. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:09 pm

    They bristle at even the merest suggestion of Professional Firies getting involved at any level, even though, they are ‘Professionals’

    Don’t want to be picky, but I think you should justify that statement.

    I think their objection is that (under the EBA) they are required to reach agreement with the union about matters that are normally decisions of operational management

    The MFB chief fire officer identified several issues the UFU had held up for years

    (no doubt you’ll suggest that a former AMWU official, now with FWA can make the decision for them)

  136. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:20 pm

    I think you should justify that statement.

    Even though you refuse to do so yourself (I think that’s what the Chief Fire Officers of CFA and MFB are seeking.), I’m always happy to highlight your ignorance help you out.

    “This will give the firefighters’ union a right of veto over almost every decision made within the CFA. It takes away control from the chief operating officer which most worries volunteers.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-17/cfa-volunteers-to-take-protest-over-eba-deal-to-north-east-vic/7519784

    Their fears are ones spread about with a litany of lies, which you have repeatedly voiced yourself. But interspersed, are moments of truth, which they also ‘bristle’ at. The fact that they unleashed this litany of lies, with this morsel wrapped up in the middle, exposes the game, and the reason why most who got this firestorm growing to begin with, have now resigned in disgrace. We really only await malcayman to follow.

    I need to ask, do you finally admit that this ‘veto’ claim is inaccurate?

  137. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:28 pm

    I see. In your opinion the following people don’t know what they are talking about-
    • The ALP minister who resigned
    • The ALP appointed CEO of the CFA
    • The former board of the CFA
    • The former Chief Fire Officer of the CFA
    • The (probably soon to be former) Chief Fire Officer of the MFB

    …on the other hand, your experts are-
    • Danny Andrews
    • The Peter Marshall of UFU
    • Some political hacks
    • A former AMWU official who was appointed to FWA
    • Tom R

  138. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:29 pm

    What is the good of owning the ALP if you can’t get it to do your legislative bidding. Unionland for unionists!

    When the Libs legislate favours for donors it is corruption pure and simple. And it is. But when the ALP does favours for its union paymasters that is just business as usual.

    The only honest people in all of this are the CFA and Minister Garrett who resigned as a matter of conscience.

  139. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:31 pm

    …on the other hand, your experts are-

    You forgot

    Professional Firefighters
    Most Volunteer Firefighters (who are now more informed on the lies they were fed)
    The Union who has dealt with Professional Firefighters for decades.

    Oh yea,

    FWA as a whole (as one person does not get to vote by themselves)

  140. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:37 pm

    who resigned as a matter of conscience.

    Yes, when she realised that she’d been backing the recalcitrants who were fighting to maintain the status quo that the Royal Commission referred to.

  141. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:38 pm

    FWA as a whole (as one person does not get to vote by themselves)

    What???? The entire FWA supports the union deal!!?????? Got any evidence for that? FMD

  142. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:40 pm

    …on the other hand, your experts are-
    • Danny Andrews
    • Peter Marshall of UFU, and the union
    • Some political hacks
    • A former AMWU official who was appointed to FWA
    • Tom R

    I’m willing to make that correction (above), but what’s your evidence that volunteers now support the deal?

  143. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:43 pm

    What???? Only one FWA member supports the union deal!!?????? Got any evidence for that? FMD

    but what’s your evidence that volunteers now support the deal?

    I’m starting with the fact that the libs had to dress up as cfa in order to make it look like real volunteers didn’t get out to polling stations.

    What’s your evidence they don’t?

  144. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 4:46 pm

    Let’s start with your assertion that FWA supported the deal, rather than a single member (who just happens to be a former AMEU official and gave a non binding recommendation)

  145. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 4, 2016 5:12 pm

    “Yes, when she realised that she’d been backing the recalcitrants who were fighting to maintain the status quo that the Royal Commission referred to.”

    Trolls have no clue when it comes to matters like “conscience”. Meanwhile Andrews and his Unionland henchmen get on with the business of destroying volunteerism in Australia.

  146. TB Queensland permalink
    August 4, 2016 6:25 pm

    Trolls have no clue when it comes to matters like “conscience”. Meanwhile Andrews and his Unionland henchmen get on with the business of destroying volunteerism in Australia.

    1. We know who the TROLLs are … typical RWNJ accusing others of what they are … and what they do … TR was around here long before sb …

    2. Playing politics with peoples’ lives is also a RWNJ modus operandi. Its not about “volunteerism”, its about professionalism … volunteers are – by very nature and name … amateurs … (like, it seems, most Liberal Party appointees and pollies – supporters and trolls) …

    3. Professional firefighting is actually a “science” … (I did a lot of work with the QFRS on backdraft and flashover as a consultant in training materials and techniques and I can assure you they really ARe professionals) …

    4. Professionals operate within tried and true (often scientifically confirmed) policies, procedures, protocols, management and training – that volunteers do not get …

    5. Fighting fires is like fighting a battle … give someone a rifle in a firefight (‘scuse the pun) and they outcome for them is inevitable … unless you want a volunteer standing army …

    6. No one is “destroying volunteerism” except amateurs who think they know better than professional firefighters … or people who want to play games with other people’s lives …

    7. The union involvement is just ToM – UNIONS! BOO! at it again …

    And BTW the Communists won The American War in Vietnam – that doesn’t mean it was right … but it does mean we were wrong …

  147. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 7:26 pm

    And there we have it. TB has done something or other with the QFRS, so he also know more about this EBA than –
    * The ALP minister
    * The previous CFA Board
    * The ALP appointed CEO of the CFA
    * The Chief Fire Officer of the CFA
    * The Chief Fire Officer of the MFB

    So…

    …on the other hand, your experts are-
    • Danny Andrews
    • Peter Marshall of UFU, and the union
    • Some political hacks
    • A former AMWU official who was appointed to FWA
    • Tom R and TB

  148. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 7:30 pm

    FWA as a whole (as one person does not get to vote by themselves)

    Did you figure this out yet Tom R?

  149. August 4, 2016 8:26 pm

    TB @August 4, 2016 6:25 pm is 100% correct. Firemen also have a compulsory `fitness` standard to maintain so they can carry fallen comrades and injured public from danger. Boo-of-16-Jets-down and keep flying over hot-battlefield is displaying his usual knowledge-free onion-panic. #teabags

  150. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:08 pm

    Let’s start with your assertion that FWA supported the deal, rather than a single member

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-01/fair-work-backs-firefighters-union-in-pay-dispute/7468682

    Did you figure this out yet Tom R?

    I’ll leave you alone to mull that over yomm 😉

    Mind you, you keep making demands of me, which I keep acceding to, yet you continually refuse to address the same from me.

    Instead, you resort to juvenile dotpointsofirrelevance.

    Why is that yomm?

  151. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:20 pm

    I see… from your link…

    Fair Work commissioner Julius Roe has made non-binding recommendations…

    It was a non binding recommendation by a single commissioner, who happens to be a former AMWU official.

    Which part of my comment did I get wrong?

    ….and which part of this (comment of yours) is correct?

    FWA as a whole (as one person does not get to vote by themselves)

  152. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:24 pm

    by a single commissioner

    So FWA has a rogue element, according to yomm.

    Keep that aluminium foil hat on tight. The rays will get in otherwise.

  153. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:29 pm

    Although, if it makes you happy yomm, and keeps you on the straight and ignorant, I’m happy to say that they entire FWA didn’t support the deal. Since it hasn’t actually got that far.

    But are you ready yet to accept that ‘veto’ is not the word to be using?

  154. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:29 pm

    What arebyou on about? You said – one person does not get to vote by themselves – when it wasn’t even a decision of the Commission. It was a non binding recommendation by a single commissioner.

    You could not possibly be more wrong about the status of the that recommendation

  155. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:33 pm

    I’ll accept that the ability to stymie implementation of an operational management decision by “withholding agreement ” (when the EBA requires consultation and agreement) means something other than veto in your odd interpretation

  156. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:33 pm

    You could not possibly be more wrong about the status of the that recommendation

    As wrong about the word ‘veto’?

    or the relevance of the Royal Commission with the eba?

    or the other litany of lies put forward by the cfa board, vic opposition and federal government in their base attack on a Union eba that seeks to protect workers and improve their conditions?

  157. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:35 pm

    means something other than veto in your odd interpretation

    If by “your odd interpretation” you mean the English language, fine, until then, just more meaningless and gutless running away from your comments, again.

    So I’ll take it as a NO then

    In other words, you still maintain that the Union has the right of veto over decisions. No matter how inaccurate that is

  158. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:43 pm

    Yeah! They’re all lying! The CFA Board, the ALP Minister, the CEO and 2 CFO’s

    Tom R knows the truth!

  159. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 7:14 am

    The CFA Board, the ALP Minister, the CEO and 2 CFO’s

    As opposed to the Firies on the ground, FWA, and the Royal Commission.

    But you stick on the side of Boards and CEO’s yomm, because we all know from past experience, that they really only have the best interests of the workers in mind, and not their bottom line 😉

  160. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 5, 2016 7:31 am

    As opposed to the Firies on the ground, FWA, and the Royal Commission. the union officials, a former AMWU official, appointed to FWA as a sinecure (who made only a non-binding recommendation) and the fact that there is no evidence that this has anything to do with the Royal Commission

  161. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 7:40 am

    the fact that there is no evidence that this has anything to do with the Royal Commission

    Well, that’s not what some know.

    But Tom R thinks, it’s only about them not doing what the Royal Commission recommended!!
    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/06/30/its-the-election/#comment-129360

    btw why did you strike out those I mentioned, they still apply, in addition to the ones you mentioned.

    Or is the FWA commissioner about to fall on his sword in an act that might indicate he has been misled?

    Has he acted in a manner that brings his conduct into question. You know, perhaps taken a speaking engagement with the Labor party or something?

  162. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 5, 2016 7:46 am

    Re FWA. It was a NON BINDING recommendation by a single member of the Commission.

    It wasn’t even a decision of the Commission. It had no status beyond being the opinion of one person.

    I can’t understand why you find so much credibility in a single member non binding recommendation

  163. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 8:05 am

    It had no status beyond being the opinion of one person.

    He is speaking on behalf of the commission, if the commision had a differing view, especially in such a high profile case, you can be sure they would have made that view by now. But it appears that they are inclined to go with the professionalism and knowledge of their commissioner, whom they appointed for just such a role.

    Of course, yomm knows better than FWA, after all, he’s on the Boards side 😉

  164. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 5, 2016 8:19 am

    Are you kidding?

    Single members get up to all sorts of things, and non-binding recommendations are often made for the sake of expediency. There are dozens of them every week.

    When parties can’t reach agreement they often just accept the “rough justice” of a non-binding recommendation – they get to blame the umpire. It is particularly common in resolving grievances.

    But there is no spokesperson that speaks on behalf of the Commission, it speaks through its decisions.

    If this was a decision, it could have been appealed to a full bench, and a full bench would have spoken on behalf of the Commission.

    But it wasn’t even a decision – it wasn’t even capable of being appealed to a Full Bench! That’s why it can be regarded as an expedient opinion by a single person – who happens to be a former union official.

  165. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 8:26 am

    who happens to be a former union official.

    So, rather than accept the recommendation of a FWA commissioner, you prefer to simply malign the commissioner

    And rather than logically refute the recommendation of a FWA commissioner, you prefer to simply malign the commissioner.

    This is after making up a litany of lies with which to malign the original agreement with.

    And all along, you ignore the findings of a Royal Commission.

    You’d rather stick to the lies perpetuated by your “Board”, who have since slunk off in disgrace.

  166. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 5, 2016 8:39 am

    FWA Commissioners are no smarter more insightful than or I.

    Non binding recommendations don’t have to follow rules of evidence, there is no requirement for specific reasons for making the recommendation, it’s merely an opinion that the Commissioner provides in order to settle a dispute.

    If it was a decision, he would have been required to consider a range of matters, and a decision could have been appealed

    The outcome of the appeal could have been regarded as the position of FWA.

    But because it wasn’t even a decision , it has no status beyond being the expedient opinion of a single person.

  167. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 5, 2016 8:41 am

    And all along, you ignore the findings of a Royal Commission.

    And you still don’t outline exactly where in the Royal Commission findings does it advise about industrial agreements of this nature.

  168. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 9:03 am

    FWA Commissioners are no smarter more insightful than or I.

    Why weren’t you selected then. Oh how did this travesty come to pass.

    And you still don’t outline exactly where in the Royal Commission findings does it advise about industrial agreements of this nature.

    I don’t know how many times I have to say it doesn’t before you take notice. It is in relation to a pertinent part of the eba that allows more autonomous actions from one party over another. The part that seems to be the core of the dispute, and probably why the “Board” created their litany of lies away from that.

    A reminder

    But Tom R thinks, it’s only about them not doing what the Royal Commission recommended!!
    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/06/30/its-the-election/#comment-129360

  169. August 5, 2016 4:20 pm

    it,,,,wasn`t even a decision,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,it wasn’t even capable,,,, #chuckle #sounds.familiar

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