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Turnbull: Won by One

August 4, 2016

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Widely hailed as a “masterstroke” by the mainstream media at the time, and in particular Chris Uhlmann and Leigh Sales at the ABC, Malcolm Turnbull’s double dissolution election – y’know the election we had to have for the sake of the ABCC (remember that?) – has been hailed as a “resounding success” by almost no one with the full senate results now sitting at:

Coalition – 30

Labor – 26

Greens – 9

One Nation – 4

That’s right, the Party that John Howard once declared as an “irrelevance” is now the fourth strongest political power in the nation thanks to Malcolm’s monumental genius.

Yes, the once revered so-called “moderate” within the ranks of the Liberal Party has now orchestrated the stratospheric resurrection of Pauline Hanson and her party of blindly ignorant Islamophobes, racists and homophobes.   Congratulations Malcolm!   Only you could’ve pulled this off.

The so-called double dissolution election and the associated pre-election deals between the major parties was intended to wipe out the influence of the independents and put an end to their ability to stifle government legislation.  Instead we now 11 independent crossbenchers (up from eight in the previous parliament).

In order to pass a bill through Parliament, the government now needs 39 votes in the Senate, meaning it is nine votes short. Before the election, it was six votes short.

Won by One

With counting all over bar the shouting the Turnbull government has been returned to power with the barest majority possible – by just one seat in Parliament.

The result represents a resounding rejection of Turnbull’s “trickle down” economic plan for jobs and growth with the economy stagnating and wages growth on the decline.

Turnbull’s standing within his own party was already on the ropes before the election but now must be clearly be on life support, so much so that he felt compelled to donate $2 million of his own not-so-hard-earned cash to the Libs’ coffers to shore up his position.

With Cory Bernardi and the right wing nutjobs to riding roughshod over what little left there is of Turnbull’s authority within his own party, and a public disenchanted with his spineless leadership, it’s only a matter of time before the whole sorry charade of this self-professed “adult government” falls over in a heap.

 

 

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516 Comments leave one →
  1. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 4, 2016 2:01 pm

    Yep, it’s all our fault!

    The emergence of the report comes as IS released the latest edition of its propaganda magazine Dabiq. The terror group takes aim at liberals and nonbelievers before detailing why militants should attack western targets.
    The editorial ‘Why We Hate You & Why We Fight You’ not only mocks the idea that Islam is a peaceful religion and those who refuse to call the group Islamic because it’s “politically incorrect”.
    It begins by talking about the “blessed attack on a sodomite nightclub and how it was indeed a hate crime because Muslims hate liberalist sodomites”.
    “We hate you, first and foremost, because you are disbelievers”, the editorial reads.
    “It is for this reason that we were commanded to openly declare our hatred for you and our enmity towards you.”
    It then goes on to list the other five reasons IS hates the west which include;
    * Secularists: Because their liberal societies permit things that Islam has prohibited
    * Atheists: Because they disbelieve in the “existence of your Lord and Creator”
    * The west: For committing crimes committing crimes against Islam and for “transgressions against our religion”
    * Western forces: For crimes against Muslims directly with people killed by fighter jets and drones
    * Finally, the entire west for invading Muslim lands and territory
    The editorial concludes the hatred will continue until the entire West embraces Islam.

    http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/isis-why-we-hate-you-magazine-details-six-reasons-for-war-on-liberalist-sodomites/news-story/c512bf5c5407f97aef3ad19e7dfd27a4

  2. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 4, 2016 2:13 pm

    They would say that. But we all know that it is because … poverty … Western interference in the Middle East … raaaaaacism … Islamophobia.

  3. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 2:23 pm

    Does this mean that yomm and sb don’t blame malcayman for the perpetual stuff ups. It’s because of ISIS?

  4. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 4, 2016 2:24 pm

    Now, back to the topic – the way forward for the Libs is to have Cory enter the lower house and become PM.

    Seriously though the Libs are a divided pathetic mess. They never stood for much and now they don’t stand for anything at all. The country is fucked. And it would have been in approximately the same situation if Bull Shittin had lied his way to power.

  5. August 4, 2016 2:26 pm

    So Yom and Arsehole agree with Pauline Hanson? 😳😬😁

  6. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 4, 2016 2:27 pm

    That’s right, the Party that John Howard once declared as an “irrelevance” is now the fourth strongest political power in the nation thanks to Malcolm’s monumental genius.

    Did he?I would be surprised if Howard said something like that. I think Howard liked Pauline

  7. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 2:38 pm

    And it would have been in approximately the same situation if Bull Shittin had lied his way to power.

    So, does that mean that you are glad Blob Shiftin DIDN’T lie, or wish he had?

    So Yom and Arsehole agree with Pauline Hanson?

    I’d always had my suspicions. Especially yomm, whose obviously held a flame for redheads for a while now.

  8. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 2:39 pm

    Will I beat reb to it?

  9. August 4, 2016 2:42 pm

    I think you just did Tom … 😄

  10. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 2:47 pm

    Childish, I know reb, but, hey, I is 🙂

  11. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 4, 2016 3:25 pm

    “So Yom and Arsehole agree with Pauline Hanson?”

    It is worse than that. Turnbull is actually a closet Muslim. Obama converted him. I keep telling Pauline but she won’t listen!

  12. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 3:58 pm

    I thought the tweet above was just a reference to the dog whistling over the past years. I didn’t realise it was referring to a specific cartoon, from today!

  13. August 4, 2016 5:49 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  14. TB Queensland permalink
    August 4, 2016 5:58 pm

    MORNING television host Sonia Kruger has again created outrage, this time suggesting that the 2016 Paralympics are a gross example of ‘reverse discrimination’. Kruger claims that an athlete’s identity as disabled or able bodied “should have no impact on the awarding of gold medals”.

    “I think those gold medals should be given on merit,” Kruger exclaimed. “We should be letting these athletes compete on a level playing field – because if the field slants downhill it gives an advantage to those in wheelchairs.”

    “They already get pensions and the parking spots closest to the shops, how many more incentives is our society willing to provide for disabled people to continue their ways? Where do we draw the line? Nick Kyrgios withdrew from the Olympic team but he’ll probably just going to try out for the Paralympics by saying he’s got ADD.”

    “We should be keeping our disabled athletes where they’ve always belonged – in the NRL and AFL.”

    Sonia Kruger nee Bernardi?

    Who employs these morons … well we know who employs Cory …

    FOUR!!!!!!!!! One Nation senate seats … fkn four!

    Welcome to the Americanisation of Oz!

  15. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 4, 2016 7:03 pm

  16. TB Queensland permalink
    August 4, 2016 7:06 pm

    More Malcolm Munchkin decisions … fudge fudge fudge!

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/04/shorten-royal-commission-banks-respect-goverment

  17. August 4, 2016 7:45 pm

    There really isn`t anything sweeter than a teabag `resounding-success`, than one hailed a `masterstroke` by toolman on my abc, is there. Team-pauline will have to work extremely hard to knock sweet-cory and sweet-eric off as the senates top phobes. All the while guarding their `rough-drafts` from being nicked by the teabags again. lt is sure to be fun. (-:

  18. August 4, 2016 8:59 pm

    I object to Bill Leak racially stereotyping all indigenous people as bullying policemen.

  19. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:17 pm

    I object to Bill Leak racially stereotyping all indigenous people as bullying policemen.

    I saw a lot of comments on twitter this arbo along those lines Tony

    “Why isn’t the policeman considered racist, or the little boy”

    Not sure why they assumed it was the dad that it was being considered racist against, hey 😯 (DOH)

    blindingly stupid these anti-racist racists.

    I cannot wait for theirabc to interview the professional racist blot to get his racist opinion about why it isn’t racist to be a racist.

  20. August 4, 2016 9:20 pm

    So what is your opinion of the Leak cartoon Tom R? Not those of tweeters or commenters. Yours.

  21. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:31 pm

    So what is your opinion of the Leak cartoon Tom R?

    bill leaks a racist fuckwit

  22. August 4, 2016 9:34 pm

    “bill leaks a racist fuckwit”

    Good argument. Very convincing.

  23. Tom R permalink
    August 4, 2016 9:39 pm

    Good argument. Very convincing.

    To be fair tosy, you asked for my opinion, not an argument

    #just saying.

    Although, if I need to explain to you why drawing a black man in a manner to represent that his childs problems stem from the fathers assumed indifference alone then no amount of argument could convince you anyway.

  24. August 4, 2016 9:42 pm

    On the other hand, perhaps parents’ indifference is part of the problem. Let’s talk about it. Not ban cartoons.

  25. Walrus permalink
    August 4, 2016 10:56 pm

    Charlie Hebdo is a racist fuckwit !

    Or perhaps this is a better view of Bill Leaks cartoon ?

    “Sometimes the truth hurts”

    We need a Royal Commision into indigenous parenting

  26. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 5, 2016 12:36 am

  27. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 7:07 am

    “Sometimes the truth hurts”

    You mean like bill the fuckwit zeroes in on a caricature of an Aboriginal father who doesn’t know his sons name, but (repeatedly) ignores both

    a) The Don Dale atrocities that brought this back to our attention.

    b) The system, that bred the Don Dale center, and which these ‘alleged’ fathers grew up in.

    But not to a racist like leak. Na, let’s focus on the minority that is easiest to bash, not the systems around them that keep them as a minority that is easy to bash.

    I can see, should he survive that long, the child from Don Dale being vilified in the same manner twenty years from now, and poor innocent leak asking “why are they like this? it must be their culture!”

  28. August 5, 2016 7:22 am

    “” if I need to explain to you why drawing a black man in a manner to represent that his childs problems stem from the fathers assumed indifference alone then no amount of argument could convince you anyway.””

    Hear hear..!!!

    In fact perhaps the onus is on others to explain why it “isn’t racism” .

  29. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 7:33 am

    In fact perhaps the onus is on others to explain why it “isn’t racism” .

    Why do I get the feeling we are about to be lectured on ‘free speech’ again?

  30. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 8:23 am

    Is it coincidental that bill leak works for the embodiment of the “investment class”. Which brings us back to this

    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/08/01/please-explain-a-tragicomic-portrait-of-a-bigot-sympathetically-done/#comment-131105

  31. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 8:46 am

    “In fact perhaps the onus is on others to explain why it “isn’t racism” .”

    Perhaps then you should ponder who in that cartoon has actually “made a go of things” in his life as a direct contrast to the one that hasn’t.

    What skin colour is the cop ?

    I note it fails to register with you that Bill Leak could have depicted a white cop. He chose not to introduce a powerful message into his cartoon.

  32. Who's Yer Paternalism permalink
    August 5, 2016 9:07 am

    (Is it coincidental that bill leak works for the embodiment of the “investment class”.

    Yes.)

  33. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 9:10 am

    Hillarious………………a link to John Pilger.

    ROFLMAO

  34. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 9:10 am

    He chose not to introduce a powerful message into his cartoon.

    ROFL

    wait …. what?

  35. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 9:16 am

    Hillarious………………a link to John Pilger.

    So, this is what wally finds amusing. It’s no wonder you get oyur jollies with the likes of leak.

    Andrew Bolt, columnist on Murdoch’s Melbourne Herald-Sun tabloid, is currently the defendant in a racial vilification case brought by nine prominent Aborigines, including Larissa Behrendt, a professor of law and indigenous studies in Sydney. Behrendt has been an authoritative and outspoken opponent of Howard’s 2007 “emergency intervention” in the Northern Territory, which the Labor government of Julia Gillard has reinforced. The rationale to “intervene” was that child abuse among Aborigines was in “unthinkable numbers”. This was a fraud. Out of 7,433 Aboriginal children examined by doctors, four possible cases were identified – about the rate of child abuse in white Australia. What this covered was an old-fashioned colonial grab of mineral-rich land in the Northern Territory where Aboriginal land rights were granted in 1976.

    What was the name of the tosser who pushed that fraud? Why is he no longer in parliament?

  36. August 5, 2016 10:19 am

    ‘In fact perhaps the onus is on others to explain why it “isn’t racism”.’

    Anthony Dillon* does that much better than I could, but the article is pay-walled so here is a brief excerpt (you can read the full article if you google a couple of lines of this):

    ‘On seeing Bill Leak’s cartoon in this newspaper yesterday morning, I was relieved and thought: “He gets it and is able to communicate it so others will listen. Thank goodness he does.”

    ‘Leak was referring to the havoc that alcohol abuse and irresponsible parenting are having on many Aboriginal children today …

    ‘This cartoon and the tragedy it depicts is not a race issue, even though some would like to make it a race issue. Leak was communicating a message that many Australians would like to express but are afraid to do so for fear of being labelled a racist …’

    *Anthony Dillon is a postdoctoral fellow at the Australian Catholic University. His father, Colin Dillon, was Australia’s first Aboriginal police officer.
    :

  37. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 10:20 am

    Hilarious! Leftists are in paroxysms over a great cartoon which highlights an important social issue. Their pointy little heads are exploding all over the place because a cartoonist dared to point out the bleeding obvious.

  38. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 10:23 am

    Hilarious! Leftists don’t get that not all cartoons are meant to be funny.

    Stick to your “Hagar the Horrible” dummies !

  39. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 10:24 am

    Bill Leak:

    The Guardian Australia’s media correspondent Amanda Meade sent me an email yesterday morning, telling me the cartoon I had drawn for the same day’s paper was being slammed on Twitter and, incredibly, asking me to ­explain what I was “trying to say”.

    While I can accept that a ­firestorm on Twitter might be of some interest to The Guardian’s media correspondent, what I can’t understand is that someone in her position would need to have the meaning of a cartoon spelled out for her when it was so glaringly obvious…

    Before the howls of outrage and accusations of racism that were directed at me started filtering through into my Twitter-free world yesterday, I received an email from Anthony Dillon — whose father Colin was Australia’s first Aboriginal policeman and whose evidence was pivotal to the Fitzgerald inquiry into police corruption in Queensland — ­congratulating me on the cartoon…

    So, Amanda, in answer to your question, I was trying to say that if you think things are pretty crook for the children locked up in the Northern Territory’s Don Dale Youth Detention Centre, you should have a look at the homes they came from.

    Then you might understand why so many of them finished up there.

  40. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 10:30 am

    “So, this is what wally finds amusing”

    How about you ask your hero Pilger to provide some documentation to the claims he makes otherwise his claims are totally worthless.

    Pilger is a bullshitter from way back reliant on the gullible Left (plenty of them) to support his lifestyle.

    Is it any wonder you have an affinity with him

  41. Who's Yer Paternalism permalink
    August 5, 2016 10:39 am

    (*Anthony Dillon is a postdoctoral fellow at the Australian Catholic University.)

  42. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 10:45 am

    Yes. Dillon disagrees with the leftist narrative. He will probably be savaged by the leftist thought police. Those stupid mongrels hate dissent.

  43. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 10:50 am

    (*Anthony Dillon is a postdoctoral fellow at the Australian Catholic University.)

    So the Left lurches to its racist “Uncle Tom” mode when their heads collectively explode in horror

    http://s535.photobucket.com/user/madcat1974/media/uncle-Tom-1.jpg.html

  44. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 5, 2016 10:56 am

    The rationale to “intervene” was that child abuse among Aborigines was in “unthinkable numbers”. This was a fraud. Out of 7,433 Aboriginal children examined by doctors, four possible cases were identified – about the rate of child abuse in white Australia.

    Other than TomR does anybody else believe this comment by Pilger?

  45. August 5, 2016 11:04 am

    “does anybody else believe this comment by Pilger?”

    Not really.

  46. August 5, 2016 11:05 am

    “He chose not to introduce a powerful message into his cartoon.”

    PML…!

  47. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 5, 2016 11:14 am

    Bill Leak’s Racism Is About Hurting The Powerless, Not Freedom Of Speech
    https://newmatilda.com/2016/08/05/bill-leaks-racism-is-about-hurting-the-powerless-not-freedom-of-speech/

    …The Australian cartoon attacking Aboriginal men was free speech. But Glen Le Lievre’s cartoon in Fairfax stereotyping Jews was an outrage. Apparently. Michael Brull delves into the latest breath-taking hypocrisy from Australian’s conservative commentators…

    …Freedom of speech is never invoked by those guys as an actual principle to be consistently applied. It is simply about shielding the powerful and well-connected. It is cynically wielded by a small network of right-wing cronies, the high-minded rhetoric to be invoked when defending a friend or colleague who has said something hurtful.

    There are no principles, other than serving power, and spitting on the weak and marginalised down below.

    Bill Leak’s latest caricature is just another illustration of this long Australian tradition…

    A Punter’s Guide To Bill Leak, The Oz And The Companies That Finance Their Racism
    https://newmatilda.com/2016/08/05/a-punters-guide-to-bill-leak-the-oz-and-the-companies-that-finance-their-racism/

    …But there is a better way… let the companies who financially support Bill’s racism know what you think of them associating their brand with breathtaking bigotry…

    …Dear Sir/Madam,

    You advertised in The Australian today. Perhaps you missed Bill Leak’s breathtakingly racist cartoon attacking First Nations people in yesterday’s edition. Australia should have moved on from this sort of bigotry. Unfortunately, some of us haven’t, hence why I’m surprised and disappointed you’re open to associating your brand with such overt ignorance.

    Regards

    [YOUR NAME]

    And of course, please share this story on social media. Hell will freeze over before The Australian and Bill Leak back down over their racism, let alone apologise. The only thing they understand is cash… so get to it…

  48. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 11:16 am

    Yep Tony the lefty Goon Squad is out for blood!

  49. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 11:18 am

    As KL shows an enraged leftist is a sight to behold. They make Hanson supporters look tame and sane.

  50. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 11:18 am

    And they are too dumb to write their own protest letters, apparently.

  51. August 5, 2016 11:19 am

    “”Many people have long pointed out the distinction between intent and interpretation in identifying racism, as well as discussing an awareness of relying on racial stereotypes, including dehumanising depictions, within ‘comedy’, but apparently Bill Leak considers himself to be above these considerations due to his own evaluations of his motivations.

    Never mind that many people who are the subjects by his cartoons consider them to be racist, ‘they just don’t get the joke’. They also apparently don’t understand that he was actually sticking up for them.””

    http://indigenousx.com.au/here-we-go-again-bill-leak-isnt-racist-according-to-bill-leak/#.V6Po89J95hE

  52. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 11:23 am

    “And they are too dumb to write their own protest letters, apparently.”

    The coffee shops of inner Sydney will be filled to the brim with fuckhead Lefties gnashing their teeth all weekend.

    Great time to grab their cash if you are a RWDB barista

  53. August 5, 2016 11:32 am

    In addition to these known problems with child protection data, there are several issues that contribute to the under-reporting of child abuse and neglect specifically in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities. These include:

    ■ fear, mistrust and loss of confidence in the police, justice system, government agencies and the media (Aboriginal Child Sexual Assault Taskforce, 2006; Anderson & Wild, 2007; Gordon, Hallahan, & Henry, 2002; Lievore, 2003);

    ■ fear of racism (Closing the Gap Clearinghouse, 2013);

    ■ fear that the child may be removed from the community (Anderson & Wild, 2007);

    ■ community silence and denial (Gordon et al., 2002);

    ■ social and cultural pressure from other members of the family or community not to report abuse or violence, and the belief that reporting is a betrayal of the culture and community (Aboriginal Child Sexual Assault Taskforce, 2006);

    ■ a belief in the need to protect the perpetrator because of the high number of Indigenous deaths in custody (Stanley, Tomison, & Pocock, 2003);

    ■ fear of repercussions or retaliation from the perpetrator or their family (Stanley et al., 2003);

    ■ personal and cultural factors of shame, guilt and fear (Aboriginal Child Sexual Assault Taskforce, 2006; Anderson & Wild, 2007);

    ■ lack of understanding about what child abuse and neglect is generally, and lack of understanding about what constitutes child sexual abuse specifically (Aboriginal Child Sexual Assault Taskforce, 2006; Anderson & Wild, 2007);

    ■ language and communication barriers, lack of knowledge about legal rights and the services available, and lack of services for Aboriginal victims (Anderson & Wild, 2007); and

    ■ geographical isolation (i.e., nobody to report to, no means of reporting and minimal contact with child welfare professionals) (Gordon et al., 2002; New South Wales Ombudsman, 2012; Stanley et al., 2003).

  54. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 11:43 am

    Because, like, we had the apology and that just proved it is all Whitey’s fault!
    Anything else is just blaming the victims. Anyone who dares suggest that there is an issue with family structures or that individual people have any responsibility for that is just another fucking racist, right?

  55. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 5, 2016 12:19 pm

    Not really.

    Tony- I didn’t even bother to do a google search. After years of reading leftists deceit i knew it was wrong within 5 milliseconds.

    Beats me why lefties are so deceitful

  56. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 12:48 pm

    ‘Leak was referring to the havoc that alcohol abuse and irresponsible parenting are having on many Aboriginal children today …

    and

    So, Amanda, in answer to your question, I was trying to say that if you think things are pretty crook for the children locked up in the Northern Territory’s Don Dale Youth Detention Centre, you should have a look at the homes they came from.
    Then you might understand why so many of them finished up there.

    What amazes me is leaks inate ability to completely ignore the documented cases of abuse happening at the Don Dale Youth Detention Centre, skip directly to assuming that this is directly a result of the Aboriginal fathers (except, of course, not all were Aboriginal, many were simply from lower socio economic backgrounds. Is there something to that perhaps?). He then applies the brakes there, and doesn’t bother once to examine the reasons that, if true, why are the fathers like this?

    “does anybody else believe this comment by Pilger?”
    Not really.

    I’ll pull a yomm, and ask you to show just where Pilger is shown to be wrong. Quote the relevant section.

  57. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:02 pm

    Just as an aside, is Anthony Dillon Aboriginal enough to be Aboriginal? [sarc]

  58. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:03 pm

    “and ask you to show just where Pilger is shown to be wrong. ”

    So where did he get his figures from ?

  59. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:04 pm

    One Nation senator-elect Malcolm Roberts wrote bizarre ‘sovereign citizen’ letter to Julia Gillard
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/one-nation-senatorelect-malcolm-roberts-wrote-bizarre-sovereign-citizen-letter-to-julia-gillard-20160804-gqlesa.html

  60. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:09 pm

    and ask you to show just where Pilger is shown to be wrong.

    Tony answered that question

    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/08/04/turnbull-won-by-one/#comment-131271

  61. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:15 pm

    So where did he get his figures from ?

    from the Government

    In May, barely reported government statistics revealed that of the 7,433 Aboriginal children examined by doctors as part of the “national emergency”, 39 had been referred to the authorities for suspected abuse. Of those, a maximum of just four possible cases of abuse were identified.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/oct/24/australia-aborigine-howard-rudd

    If you have an issue with that, take it up with the Guardian, or show where this claim is to be false.

    As for nil, you really are quite slow aren’t you?

  62. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:16 pm

    One Nation senator-elect Malcolm Roberts wrote bizarre ‘sovereign citizen’ letter to Julia Gillard

    well done malcayman. What an ‘agile’ and ‘innovative’ election that was lol

  63. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:17 pm

  64. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:27 pm

    Actually nil, I have a better idea, YOU provide the section that disproves Pilgers claims?

    You reckon Tony is onto something, so it should be easy.

  65. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:37 pm

    “If you have an issue with that, take it up with the Guardian, or show where this claim is to be false.”

    Oh I see…………………John Pilger got his figures from…………….wait for it…..

    …….. an article by ……………….John Pilger !

    You are an absolute joke TomRoll………………………..an absolute joke !

  66. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:42 pm

    John Pilger got his figures from

    As it says, from very hard to find (and pssoibly deleted now) government resources.

    If you want to call bullshit, do it, but with evidence.

    I did find this

    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjXmoCuq6nOAhXD64MKHbmsAQsQFgg7MAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aihw.gov.au%2FWorkArea%2FDownloadAsset.aspx%3Fid%3D60129542752&usg=AFQjCNF6AGYbTh-feXGRvO2kH5P4ZVlKkw&bvm=bv.129391328,d.amc

    The reasons for the over-representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in
    child protection substantiations are complex. The legacy of past policies of forced removal,
    intergenerational effects of previous separations from family and culture, lower
    socioeconomic status and perceptions arising from cultural differences in child-rearing
    practices are all underlying causes for their over-representation in the child welfare system

    There is also a chart on page 18 (29 in a pdf reader) that shows the cases of sexual abuse is actually lower as a percentage in Indigenous children

    Not sure if that link will work. But that corresponds with Pilgers claims. Unlike Tony’s links, which led to ….. still waiting on someone to highlight the relevant section?

  67. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:51 pm

    “You are an absolute joke TomRoll………………………..an absolute joke !”

    In fact Tom R is a world class troll. He may be having an off day today but that is because he is tasked with defending the indefensible race-hate industry.

  68. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:57 pm

    He may be having an off day today

    So perhaps you can point to the part/s of Tonys link that supports his assertion.

    Or show some data that disproves the data I put up that confirms his assertion?

    Shouldn’t be too hard, even on an off day 😉

  69. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 1:58 pm

    “As it says, from very hard to find (and pssoibly deleted now) government resources.”

    “deleted”…………………oh how inconvenient ………..LOL

    “If you want to call bullshit, do it, but with evidence.”

    Bullshit then……………..my evidence is that the allegation has no evidence you dunce

    “He may be having an off day today……”

    Yes very true sb………he needs his sidekick from Queensland to take it off him. He’s putting in an absolute shocker.

    Its like watching last year’s AFL Grand Final……… he is the Swans

  70. August 5, 2016 2:00 pm

    “ask you to show just where Pilger is shown to be wrong. Quote the relevant section.”

    Pilger’s assertion: “In May, barely reported government statistics revealed that of the 7,433 Aboriginal children examined by doctors as part of the “national emergency”, 39 had been referred to the authorities for suspected abuse. Of those, a maximum of just four possible cases of abuse were identified. Such were the “unthinkable numbers”. They were little different from those of child abuse in white Australia.”

    Actual government statistics:

    Table 1: The number of children aged 0-17 years who were the subject of substantiated* reports of harm or risk of harm, rates per 1,000 children by Indigenous status 2013-14

    *A substantiation refers to a case where an allegation that a child was “in need of protection” under state or territory law was found to be true. As legislation differs across jurisdictions in relation to children, aged 17, in some jurisdictions, children aged 17 are not substantiated. This means that the number per 1,000 children who were the subject of a substantiation may be lower for those jurisdictions.

    That table shows that an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander child is 6.8 times more likely to be the subject of a substantiated report than other children.

    There’s also this:

    Are Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children abused or neglected more often than non-Indigenous children?

    Child protection data do not reliably tell us how many Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander children are abused or neglected in any given year. However, they do show a consistent pattern of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children being substantially over-represented in every area of the child protection system (AIHW, 2015). Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are more likely than others in the community to experience problems commonly associated with child abuse and neglect (e.g., alcohol abuse, domestic violence) (Scott & Higgins, 2011). Several prominent inquiries conducted in Australia over the last two decades have highlighted concerns that children in some Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities are at high risk of experiencing abuse and neglect (Anderson & Wild, 2007; Atkinson, 1990; Gordon et al., 2002; Memmott, Stacy, Chambers, & Keys, 2001; Northern Territory Government, 2010; Robertson, 2000). Responding to the entrenched social and economic factors that contribute to the over-representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in statutory care and protection services is a critical challenge recognised by Australian state, territory and Commonwealth governments (Bromfield & Holzer, 2008).

    Unless you can give now provide a link to Pilger’s “barely reported government statistics” – not just his The Guardian article – I’ll stick with those compiled by the Federal Government’s Australian Institute of Family Studies.

  71. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 2:01 pm

    my evidence is that the allegation has no evidence you dunce

    Keep up

    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/08/04/turnbull-won-by-one/#comment-131295

    Or is that a leftie conspiracy?

  72. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 2:07 pm

    “in need of protection” under state or territory law was found to be true.

    And there is the kicker “in need of protection” and “under state or territory law”

    Yet when medically examined, only 4 were found to be actually abused. THAT was what Pilger claimed. And, as yet, has not been proven false.

    And it aligns with the Child Protection report of 2011-12 I linked to.

    And, from your quote

    they do show a consistent pattern of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children being substantially over-represented in every area of the child protection system

    And this is was explained in my comment above from that report. It does not mean more were abused, just that more ended up away from their families.

    What was that apology for the Stolen Generation over again?

    Government interference into private lives.

    By the champions of small Government.

  73. August 5, 2016 2:08 pm

    Thanks for that link Tom R. On page ix we find this:

    “Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children continue to be over-represented
    In 2011–12, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children were almost 8 times as likely to be
    the subject of substantiated child abuse and neglect as non-Indigenous children (rates of 41.9 and 5.4 per 1,000 children, respectively).”

  74. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 2:09 pm

    The reason Leak has copped so much frothing frottaging hysteria from the looney-tune left is that he has done exactly what a good cartoonist should do: made a good point (that most leftists seem determined to ignore) in a sharp and concise way.

  75. August 5, 2016 2:10 pm

    “”Suncorp withdrawing its advertising over Bill Leak cartoon.””

    Brace yourselves for the backlash from the “”freedom fighters” and their cries of “”corporate blackmail”” held to ransom by political correctness gone mad.

    No one quite does feigned outrage like a right wing nut job denied a dollar.

  76. August 5, 2016 2:10 pm

    On page 16:

    “Children in substantiations
    In 2011–12, 10,058 (41.9 per 1,000) Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children were the
    subject of a child protection substantiation. Compared with non-Indigenous children,
    Indigenous children were almost 8 times as likely to be the subject of a child protection
    substantiation (41.9 per 1,000 compared with 5.4 per 1,000) (Table 2.4).”

  77. August 5, 2016 2:13 pm

    Page 17:

    “Abuse and neglect type

    Overall, the most common type of substantiated abuse for Aboriginal and Torres Strait
    Islander children was neglect, which represented 40% of substantiations, compared with 25% for non-Indigenous children.”

    Wasn’t this the type of abuse Bleak was referring to in his cartoon?

  78. August 5, 2016 2:16 pm

    Page 24:

    “Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children

    The substantiation rates for Indigenous and non-Indigenous children have both increased
    since 2010–11, from 34.6 to 41.9 per 1,000 and from 4.5 to 5.4 per 1,000, respectively. The rate ratio of Indigenous to non-Indigenous children has increased slightly, from 7.6 in 2010–11 to 7.8 in 2011–12 (Figure 2.12).”

    Need I go on?

  79. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 2:16 pm

    Wasn’t this the type of abuse Bleak was referring to in his cartoon?

    Oh, so you have forgotten about Pilger now, have you?

    And yes, it was.

    And, as I said, interesting that he ignores EVERYTHING, except that.

    Forget about how many of these ‘fathers’ were ‘substantiated’ from their families

    Forget about how many of these ‘fathers’ are of lower socio economic standing.

    And completely ignore the elephant in the room, the abuse inflicted upon these people as children under ‘substantiated’ care!

  80. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 2:19 pm

    Meanwhile California has taken the lead in the “Take It Up The Arse For Islam” stakes:

    California Recognizes August as Muslim Appreciation and Awareness Month.

    Whatever happened to the separation of church and state?

  81. August 5, 2016 2:25 pm

    “Oh, so you have forgotten about Pilger now, have you?”

    For the time being, unless you can find those elusive “barely reported government statistics” he refers to, then we can return to Pilger.

    In the meantime I think we have established that there is an over-representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in all areas of abuse.

    How to solve this problem has perplexed decades of people trying to do what’s best for those children. You only have to look at the number of reports referred to in my initial links.

    Meanwhile the statistics get worse.

    Yes Bill Leak concentrated on neglect. It’s not his role to solve the problem, just to point it out.

  82. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 2:25 pm

    “And, as I said, interesting that he ignores EVERYTHING, except that.”

    It was a cartoon, not leftist textbook! Leak pointed to one issue the left can’t even bear to mention – precisely because they don’t actually give a shit!

  83. August 5, 2016 2:26 pm

    “And completely ignore the elephant in the room, the abuse inflicted upon these people as children under ‘substantiated’ care!”

    You got stats on that one?

  84. August 5, 2016 2:31 pm

    So it’s “mission accomplished” for the Oz and newscorpse..

    Ppl are no longer talking about the abuse inflicted on the kids in custody, now it’s all the parents’ fault.

    Apparently.

  85. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 2:34 pm

    I thought TB might enjoy this quote in the light of that economy/society distinction he keeps prattling on about:

    “You must make your choice between the individual and the citizen, you cannot be both.” —Jean-Jacques Rousseau, 1762

    It is, of course, hogwash!

  86. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 2:37 pm

    So it’s “mission accomplished”

    Now you are blaming the victim – it isn’t Leak’s fault the left went into full moonbat madness mode over a statement of the bleeding obvious.

  87. August 5, 2016 2:39 pm

    The rabid right are so easily excited by the drivel published in their own media… Lol.

  88. August 5, 2016 2:42 pm

    “Now you are blaming the victim”

    No I’m not..

    I’m congratulating them on achieving what they set out to do – namely shift the attention away from how these kids were treated in custody and instead blame their parents for their predicament.

    And you cunts just lap it up. 😅

  89. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 2:53 pm

    You should see it dribbling down my chin right now!

  90. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 3:19 pm

    For the time being, unless you can find those elusive “barely reported government statistics” he refers to, then we can return to Pilger.

    Just to be a bit pedantic, but the figures from the report I linked to corroborated his, so, unless you find something else, I think we can safely assume he has been proven correct.

    In the meantime I think we have established that there is an over-representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in all areas of abuse.

    Interesting, because the report I linked to by the Government in 2011-12 disagrees.

    That is not to say that there is not an over representation of Aboriginal children being removed from their families, (ergo, their fathers), there quite obviously is, but the report also highlighted the reasons.

    Just to remind you

    The reasons for the over-representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in
    child protection substantiations are complex. The legacy of past policies of forced removal,
    intergenerational effects of previous separations from family and culture, lower
    socioeconomic status and perceptions arising from cultural differences in child-rearing
    practices are all underlying causes for their over-representation in the child welfare system

    Yes Bill Leak concentrated on neglect.

    And that is ALL he concentrates on. Go through his other scribbles. It is ALWAYS the ‘neglect’ BY the Aboriginal people he concentrates on, not the neglect TO the Aboriginal people. You might even get the impression he does not think this exists.

    You got stats on that one?

    Watch Four Corners. And keep up!

    Ppl are no longer talking about the abuse inflicted on the kids in custody, now it’s all the parents’ fault.

    BINGO!

  91. August 5, 2016 3:19 pm

    It’s not as if there haven’t been enough inquiries, task forces, steering committees, reports, analyses, studies, discussion papers – and yes, interventions – on disfunction in Indigenous communities (and these are just the ones referenced under the heading ‘Child protection and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children’). They all acknowledge there are big problems, but none have been able to solve them.

    References

    Aboriginal Child Sexual Assault Taskforce. (2006). Breaking the silence: Creating the future. Addressing child sexual assault in Aboriginal communities in NSW. Sydney: NSW Attorney General’s Department.

    Anderson, P., & Wild, R. (2007). Ampe akelyernemane meke mekarle – Little children are sacred. Report of the Northern Territory Board of Inquiry into the Protection of Aboriginal Children from Sexual Abuse. Darwin: Northern Territory Government.

    Atkinson, J. (1990). Violence against Aboriginal women. Reconstitution of community law – the way forward. Aboriginal Law Bulletin, 2(46), 6-9.

    Atkinson, J. (2002). Trauma trails, recreating song lines: The transgenerational effects of trauma in Indigenous Australia. North Melbourne: Spinifex Press.

    Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. (2012). Child protection Australia 2010-11. Canberra, ACT: AIHW.

    Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. (2013). Child protection Australia 2011-12. Canberra, ACT: AIHW.

    Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. (2014). Child protection Australia 2012-13. Canberra, ACT: AIHW.

    Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. (2015). Child protection Australia 2013-14. Canberra, ACT: AIHW.

    Breen, H. (2010). Innovative analysis of Indigenous card gambler profiles in north Queensland. Australian Aboriginal Studies, (2), 78-86.

    Bromfield, L. M., & Higgins, D. J. (2004). The limitations of using statutory child protection data for research into child maltreatment. Australian Social Work, 57(1), 19-30.

    Bromfield, L. M., Higgins, J. R., Higgins, D. J., & Richardson, N. (2007). Why is there a shortage of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander carers? (Promising Practices in Out-of-Home Care for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Carers and Young People: Strengths and Barriers. Paper 1). Melbourne: Australian Institute of Family Studies.

    Bromfield, L. M., & Holzer, P. J. (2008). Protecting Australian children: Analysis of challenges and strategic directions. Retrieved from .

    Calma, T. (2008). Social justice report 2007. Sydney: Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission.

    Closing the Gap Clearinghouse. (2013). What works to overcome Indigenous disadvantage: Key learnings and gaps in the evidence 2011-12. Canberra: Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. Retrieved from

    Cripps, K., & McGlade, H. (2008). Indigenous family violence and sexual abuse: Considering pathways forward. Journal of Family Studies, 14(2-3), 240-253.

    Council of Australian Governments. (2009). Protecting children is everyone’s business: National framework for protecting Australia’s children 2009-2020. Retrieved from .

    Dawe, S., Harnett, P., & Frye, S. (2008). Improving outcomes for children living in families with parental substance misuse: What do we know and what should we do? (Child Abuse Prevention Issues No. 29). Retrieved from .

    Gordon, S. (2006). Cultural conceptualisation of child abuse and responses to it: An Aboriginal perspective. Social Policy Journal of New Zealand, 28, 18-35.

    Gordon, S., Hallahan, K., & Henry, D. (2002). Putting the picture together: Inquiry into Response by Government Agencies to Complaints of Family Violence and Child Abuse in Aboriginal Communities. Western Australia: Department of Premier and Cabinet.

    Hing, N & Breen, H. (2014). Indigenous Australians and gambling (AGRC Discussion Paper No. 2). Melbourne: Australian Institute of Family Studies. Retrieved from

    Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission. (1997). Bringing Them Home. Report of the National Inquiry into the Separation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Children from Their Families. Sydney: HREOC

    Lievore, D. (2003). Non-reporting and hidden recording of sexual assault: An international review. Report prepared by the Australian Institute of Criminology for the Commonwealth Office of the Status of Women. Canberra: Commonwealth of Australia.

    Lock, J. (1997). The Aboriginal Child Placement Principle. Sydney, NSW: New South Wales Law Reform Commission.

    Memmott, P., Stacy, R., Chambers, C., & Keys, C. (2001). Violence in Indigenous Communities. Canberra: Commonwealth of Australia.

    New South Wales Ombudsman. (2012). Responding to child sexual assault in Aboriginal communities. A report under Part 6A of the Community Services (Complaints and Monitoring) Act 1993. Sydney: New South Wales Ombudsman.

    Northern Territory Government. (2010). Growing them strong, together: Promoting the safety and wellbeing of the Northern Territory’s children. Summary report of the board of inquiry into the child protection system in the Northern Territory 2010. Darwin: Northern Territory Government.

    Osborn, A., Panozzo, S., Richardson, N., & Bromfield, L. M. (2007). Foster families (Research Brief No. 4). Retrieved from .
    Pink, B., & Allbon, P. (2008). The health and welfare of Australia’s Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples 2008. Canberra: Australian Bureau of Statistics.

    Robertson, B. (2000). The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Women’s Task Force on Violence report. Brisbane: Queensland Department of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Policy and Development.

    Scott, D. A., & Higgins, D. J. (2011). Supporting families in Northern Territory Emergency Response: Evaluation report 2011. Canberra: Department of Families Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs.

    Silburn, S. R., Zubrick, S. R., Lawrence, D. M., Mitrou, G. G., DeMaio, J. A., Blair, E. et al. (2006). The intergenerational effects of forced separation on the social and emotional wellbeing of Aboriginal children and young people. Family Matters, 75, 10-17.

    Stanley, J., Tomison, A. M., & Pocock, J. (2003). Child abuse and neglect in Indigenous Australian communities (Child Abuse Prevention Issues No. 19). Retrieved from .

    Steering Committee for the Review of Government Service Provision. (2007). Overcoming Indigenous disadvantage: Key indicators 2007 report. Canberra: Productivity Commission.

    Steering Committee for the Review of Government Service Provision. (2009). Overcoming Indigenous disadvantage: Key indicators 2009 report. Canberra: Productivity Commission.

    Steering Committee for the Review of Government Service Provision. (2011). Overcoming Indigenous disadvantage: Key indicators 2011 report. Canberra: Productivity Commission.

    Steering Committee for Review of Government Service Provision. (2014). Overcoming Indigenous disadvantage: Key indicators 2014. Canberra: Productivity Commission.

    Stevens, M. R. (2013). Reported gambling problems amongst the population of Australia with a focus on the Northern Territory. Darwin: Charles Darwin University. Retrieved from

  92. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 3:28 pm

    They all acknowledge there are big problems, but none have been able to solve them.

    Obviously, drawing a gratuitous cartoon re-enforcing a racist stereotype, and bravely sidestepping any responsibility from any other directions, is the way to achieve this.

  93. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 3:41 pm

    A black policeman is not a racist stereotype!

  94. August 5, 2016 3:41 pm

    Tom R you say

    “There is also a chart on page 18 (29 in a pdf reader) that shows the cases of sexual abuse is actually lower as a percentage in Indigenous children
    Not sure if that link will work. But that corresponds with Pilgers claims.”

    and

    “Just to be a bit pedantic, but the figures from the report I linked to corroborated his, so, unless you find something else, I think we can safely assume he has been proven correct.”

    Yeah, not sure you understand what that chart is actually showing. It divides type of abuse by a percentage of overall abuse i.e. Physical, Sexual, Emotional, and Neglect. For each group – Indigenous and Non-indigenous – the four bars add up to 100% of total substantiations. So, just because the Sexual column is ‘only’ 9% of the total, does not prove Pilger’s claim that only 4 cases had been proven. In fact, 9% of the 10,058 substantiations (page 16) amounts to 905 cases of substantiated child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities.

    The fact remains, Indigenous children are eight times more likely than non-Indigenous children to be victims of abuse of all kinds.

    And Pilger is wrong.

  95. August 5, 2016 3:42 pm

    “”It’s not as if there haven’t been enough inquiries, task forces, steering committees, reports, analyses, studies, discussion papers… “”

    I don’t think any of that is actually in dispute.

    But please, go right ahead and have that debate in your mind and feel free to spill it out on the pages of this backwater blog™ if it makes you feel like it’s actually a thing that’s going on on in the real world…

    Meanwhile, how about those young kids gassed and hosed down in prison cells…..?

  96. August 5, 2016 3:44 pm

    Looks like splatterbottom is also a regular over at Bolt’s bog:

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  97. August 5, 2016 3:50 pm

    “Obviously, drawing a gratuitous cartoon re-enforcing a racist stereotype, and bravely sidestepping any responsibility from any other directions, is the way to achieve this.”

    As I have clearly shown above, it’s not a stereotype. Forty Percent of the 10,058 substantiated cases are in the sub-group Neglect. It’s an actual problem, and if we refuse to acknowledge it, we will never solve it.

  98. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 3:52 pm

    So, just because the Sexual column is ‘only’ 9% of the total, does not prove Pilger’s claim that only 4 cases had been proven.

    Of course it is not equal to, they are done years apart.

    But the resultant determination that Indigenous children are no more likely to be abused as are white children is proven. Which was Pilgers claim.

    The fact remains, Indigenous children are eight times more likely than non-Indigenous children to be victims of abuse of all kinds.

    I think you mean they are eight more times more likely to be separated, but this also includes for neglect, for which Aboriginal children were of a higher percentage, but this would be quite obviously for financial reasons.

  99. August 5, 2016 3:54 pm

    “I don’t think any of that is actually in dispute.”

    Seriously, why do I bother, for all the gratitude I get.

  100. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 3:56 pm

    It’s an actual problem

    No shit.

    Of course, locking up these kids and abusing them should be swept under the carpet, lets focus on the fathers who themselves were quite probably forcibly removed from their parents at a young age, instead of focusing on the policies that perpetuate this behavior.

  101. August 5, 2016 3:59 pm

    “But the resultant determination that Indigenous children are no more likely to be abused as are white children is proven. Which was Pilgers claim.”

    They are in fact eight times more likely.

    And Pilger’s claim was that only 4 cases were proven.

  102. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 4:01 pm

    Seriously, why do I bother, for all the gratitude I get.

    And thanks for all the fish Tony 😉

  103. August 5, 2016 4:01 pm

    “Of course, locking up these kids and abusing them should be swept under the carpet,”

    Last time I looked we are having a Royal Commission into that. Hopefully their terms of reference will include looking at why they are there in the first place.

  104. August 5, 2016 4:08 pm

    “Hopefully their terms of reference will include looking at why they are there in the first place.”

    Yeah, coz then that might show that they deserved it eh?

  105. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 4:08 pm

    And Pilger’s claim was that only 4 cases were proven.

    exactly

    You realise that ‘abused’ and ‘neglect’ are not always the same?

    Overall, the most common type of substantiated abuse for Aboriginal and Torres Strait
    Islander children was neglect, which represented 40% of substantiations, compared with 25%
    for non-Indigenous children.

    So the neglect for Aboriginal children is far higher.

    Last time I looked we are having a Royal Commission into that.

    Yea, have they signed heydon up for that yet? And has leak noticed?

  106. August 5, 2016 4:09 pm

    Tom R, you mentioned on another occasion that you’re not too good with numbers. I’ll put your stubbornness down to that.

  107. August 5, 2016 4:13 pm

    “Yeah, coz then that might show that they deserved it eh?”

    Or not.

  108. August 5, 2016 4:43 pm

    “My underlying concern, though, is that the terms of reference don’t really go to the crucial issue here which is: what is driving the egregious over-representation of Indigenous children in the youth detention system in the Northern Territory, let alone across the country? And I’m not sure that a commission that is simply largely focused on the events that took place is going to lead us very far, at the end of the day. “

  109. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 5, 2016 4:49 pm

    “Looks like splatterbottom is also a regular over at Bolt’s bog”

    Looks like this has got everyone all worked up. Tell you what, form a circle and I’ll kneel in the middle and you can all get it all out of your systems, all over me. Just like the god old days. Yum yum!

  110. August 5, 2016 5:02 pm

    (Yes it is. lt is also enjoyable to see the copper-class zombie-leader unable to lead his in-house zombies, as somebody once said

    ,,,,,No one quite does feigned outrage like a right wing nut job denied a dollar,,,,,

    While the pinkists are handed a club to beat about the head of the zombie-leaders convicted-racist, promotions department.)

  111. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 5:03 pm

    I’ll put your stubbornness down to that.

    My only issue was your issue with Pilger. You seemed to have abandoned him. I think on everything else, I AGREE! with you.

    The issues the Aboriginal people face SHOULD have a light shone on it.

    What leak did din’t do that, he shone a light on one particular aspect, and perpetuated a stereotype. The reality is, as I showed, far more involved that ‘blame the deadbeat dad’. When he shines his little light more broadly, then I’ll take note, until then, he’s just another of the investment class pushing the racist buttons.

  112. August 5, 2016 5:30 pm

    “the investment class”

    I don’t know why you like that phrase. It’s meaningless.

  113. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 5:33 pm

    “It’s meaningless.”

    That’s precisely why he likes it.

    Kinda like everything he utters

  114. Walrus permalink
    August 5, 2016 5:42 pm

    Anyone who has superannuation is part of the “investment class”.

    I guess that completely eludes him.

  115. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 5, 2016 5:56 pm

    “…So the neglect for Aboriginal children is far higher…”

    You do know that you have to be a recipient of good parenting yourself to know how to be one? How do you think a stolen generation and institutional child abuse would create decent parents? never mind the daily racism and deprivation that is endured just for being aboriginal, along with never ever being given a decent job in your life?
    That is all besides the point though, the stereotypical accusation of ‘some’ neglectful parents equating to all aboriginal parenting is obscene. I have seen remote aboriginals going to extreme lengths to get help and support for their kids without the services and support that the wider population takes for granted.

  116. August 5, 2016 6:07 pm

    (Of course there is no-evidence that the public-relations department contains a convicted-racist, phobe,

    ,,,,,He immediately rang Bolt, who had the offending comment `snipped`, formally apologised to Marr,,,,,

    https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2011/october/1318315099/anne-summers/bolt-factor

    coward,

    ,,,,,Marr accepted Bolt`s apology and his assurance he had not seen the posts. What Bolt did not disclose was that the person who was moderating the blog and past whom these comments had `snuck` was his wife, Sally Morrell,,,,,

    or liar,

    ,,,,,communication from Andrew Bolt which includes the following: `I did much of the moderating myself on those days,,,,,

    The public relations dept will ensure things don`t unravel for the zombie-leader.)

  117. August 5, 2016 6:11 pm

    “Or not.”

    Surely, the “reason” why they are in custody has zero to do with the abuse they have incurred, unless you’re advocating some sort of vigilante justice at the discretion of the guards who work there?

  118. August 5, 2016 6:24 pm

    No, I pretty much agree with Noel Pearson, linked at 4:43 pm above.

  119. TB Queensland permalink
    August 5, 2016 6:28 pm

    Surely, the “reason” why they are in custody has zero to do with the abuse they have incurred, unless you’re advocating some sort of vigilante justice at the discretion of the guards who work there?

    But aggressively by-passed by the RWNJ Brigade …

    Its about CHILD – ABUSE … morons!

    And what’s fascinating is the claim of intelligentsia over “those fucking extreme lefties” …

  120. TB Queensland permalink
    August 5, 2016 6:29 pm

    Noel Pearson is also a RWNJ!

  121. August 5, 2016 6:32 pm

    Only in teabag-land is 5-kids locked in cells (2-playing cards) harming nobody, not even themselves, while child-6 throws a tanty, resulting in man-handling, gassing and abuse of `all`-6-kids, called a `riot`.

  122. August 5, 2016 6:36 pm

    “Noel Pearson is also a RWNJ!”

    Name-calling is not an argument.

  123. August 5, 2016 6:41 pm

    “”No, I pretty much agree with Noel Pearson””

    Well you would. If I’m not mistaken he has been more or less disowned by Aboriginal Australians in the past.

  124. August 5, 2016 6:44 pm

    Its,,,,about CHILD, ABUSE .. morons!,,,,

    # ,, Notice the same pedo-defenders of pell and catlicks are still defending other forms of child abuse?????

  125. TB Queensland permalink
    August 5, 2016 6:50 pm

    Let me reinforce that (clarify for the morons)

    Its about CHILD – ABUSE … morons! BY WHITE-FELLAS

    … did you watch the video – cause if you did … your comprehension (as usual) is zilch …

    This thread is all about … (as usual) look over there!

  126. August 5, 2016 6:51 pm

    “Well you would. If I’m not mistaken he has been more or less disowned by Aboriginal Australians in the past.”

    Really? Stupid Tory ABC.

  127. TB Queensland permalink
    August 5, 2016 6:53 pm

    # ,, Notice the same pedo-defenders of pell and catlicks are still defending other forms of child abuse?????

    Oh yeah!

    Nothing is new!

    Nothing changes!

    “Noel Pearson is also a RWNJ!”

    Name-calling is not an argument.

    Its not name calling – it the truth … dumbnut – that’s name calling!

  128. August 5, 2016 6:54 pm

    “This thread is all about … (as usual) look over there”

    My mistake. We’ve been discussing statistics about child abuse in Indigenous communities.

  129. August 5, 2016 6:55 pm

    “Its not name calling – it the truth … dumbnut – that’s name calling!”

    Thanks for clearing that up.

  130. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 5, 2016 7:00 pm

  131. August 5, 2016 7:16 pm

    Ha-ha armchair. The onion!!! seems to be reading!!! ####somebody-else`s#### comments (-:

  132. TB Queensland permalink
    August 5, 2016 7:20 pm

    My mistake. We’ve been discussing statistics about child abuse in Indigenous communities.

    As you would … ONE is too many … children are not “statistics” … believe me!

  133. August 5, 2016 7:23 pm

    ‘As you would … ONE is too many … children are not “statistics” … believe me!’

    I believe you. And statistics are not children. They are a numerical summary of what is actually happening.

  134. TB Queensland permalink
    August 5, 2016 7:28 pm

    They are a numerical summary of what is actually happening.

    Ya think … obviously never studies stats … Lies, damned lies and statistics …

    One abused child is too many … (I’m suspecting you have none) …

  135. August 5, 2016 7:32 pm

    “One abused child is too many … (I’m suspecting you have none) …”

    Yes, one abused child is too many. But that’s not what’s happening, is it? I know this because these things are being being measured, and compiled as statistics.

    The question is, what do we (as a nation) do about it.

  136. August 5, 2016 7:37 pm

    Fudge fudge ,,,,statistics,,,, fudge, fudge, ,,,,numerical-summary,,,, fudge, fudge, ignoring, fudge, ,,,,actually-happening,,,, fudge, fudge, even-tho, fudge, fudge, its-on-video.

  137. TB Queensland permalink
    August 5, 2016 8:29 pm

    The question is, what do we (as a nation) do about it.

    Nothing … as “we” always do …

    Me? I’d charge the NT Chief Minister hand the Minister responible for Everything with assault and every guard that is identified in the videos we saw …

    Shimples!

    Child abuse is illegal … pissing around with statistics is what wimps do! And our governments are full of do nothing, overpaid – wimps

  138. August 5, 2016 8:46 pm

    You talk a big game TB. You’re a tough guy, according to you. Not a wimp like all those other people pissing around with stats. Let’s charge everybody! That’s sure to fix the problems two decades of inquiries, Royal commissions and interventions have failed to fix.

    I’ve tried to be civil with you, but enough is enough. You’re just a bigoted know-all who knows nothing. And you can leave all the personal shit out of it, okay?

  139. August 5, 2016 8:52 pm

    “”Let’s charge everybody! “”

    Heck no, let’s blame their parents, and that absolves the government appointed authorities of their duty of care…

    Yay!

  140. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 5, 2016 9:34 pm

    I have not been following the comments too closely but how come all this child abuse stuff only comes out when the Coalition is in power?

    One possibility is that child abuse only occurs when the Coalition is in power.

    The other possibility is that nobody and especially the ABC cares until the Coalition is elected.

  141. TB Queensland permalink
    August 5, 2016 9:35 pm

    I’ve tried to be civil with you, but enough is enough. You’re just a bigoted know-all who knows nothing. And you can leave all the personal shit out of it, okay?

    Oh dear …

  142. Tom R permalink
    August 5, 2016 10:33 pm

    I don’t know why you like that phrase. It’s meaningless.

    Here’s a hint 😉

    Guess who first lady Lucy Turnbull was having coffee with at exactly the same time her husband, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, joined his Treasurer Scott Morrison to announce a tough new “accountability” measure for the big four banks?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/margin-call/spilling-the-beans-on-coffee-club/news-story/3598b22fba0328b78c93d31646ba336f?nk=d6d4e67c33b6496b67a6bd776df93528-1470400221

    (psst wally, don’t take things so literally, it doesn’t suit you)

    Oh dear …

    Was that for nil?

  143. Another Possibility Is permalink
    August 5, 2016 11:34 pm

    (And a most excellent strategy it is; low socioeconomic status being a critical determinant of that which is complained about vociferously by the Righteously-concerned; so, eliminating stand-alone departments and their expertises, and undermining peak indigenous consultative bodies, and forging on with reductions in fundings and in frontline services deliveries, and blithely targetting ‘unviable’ communities with no provision made for ensuing dislocations, all with a pronounced emphasis on enhanced policing measures to address measurably-increased, communities-wide distresses and incarceration rates; with some coincidental land ‘reforms’ tacked on; nah, it looks nothing like an ongoing, thinly-disguised land grab; and/or deliberately promoting the very underlying conditions about which Righteous Australia does and doesn’t like to concern itself whenever a never-let-a-good-crisis-go-to-waste represents. Perhaps.)

  144. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 6, 2016 12:20 am

    “Hopefully their terms of reference will include looking at why they are there in the first place.”

    So beautifully answered by meta in one sentence.

    … (And a most excellent strategy it is; low socioeconomic status being a critical determinant of that which is complained about vociferously by the Righteously-concerned;…

    And if they can’t comprehend that central theme throughout all the statistics collected, there’s always the ‘personal responsibility’ and ‘blame the victim for their own abuse’ typical right wing rubbish that allows people to not give a shit about other human beings. Because those kids need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and never ever do anything wrong in their lives.

    Not everyone has the good luck to be born to ‘responsible’ parents with the financial means to ensure their kid never takes personal responsibility for their own bad behaviour. Tony Abbott’s good fortune got him off his vandalism and sexual assault charges..

  145. TB Queensland permalink
    August 6, 2016 8:48 am

    Was that for nil?

    (See above – August 5, 2016 8:46 pm)

    Nah, TR …

    It were, ToSY – seems seeing, hearing, experiencing, learning, reading, watching, doing and living stuff all your life makes you a “know it all” when you disagree with him, with logic, and it buggers up his “look over there” argument. (And he didn’t like me calling “governments full of wimps” – interesting … wonder why?)

  146. August 6, 2016 9:11 am

    “when you disagree with him, with logic”

    What, this kind of logic?

    “One abused child is too many … (I’m suspecting you have none) …”

    You really are a nasty piece of work.

  147. Tom R permalink
    August 6, 2016 9:49 am

    Not everyone has the good luck to be born to ‘responsible’ parents with the financial means to ensure their kid never takes personal responsibility for their own bad behaviour.

    And how many of them that are are still being ‘forcibly removed” under the guise of ‘protection’

    Is it because people hear about the removal of Indigenous children from their families and assume bad parenting? If so, this attitude only compounds the lack of accountability by government child removal agencies who escape scrutiny due the perpetuation of negative stereotypes and it shows an indifference to understanding the real underlying causes of the problem.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/commentisfree/2016/feb/13/eight-years-after-the-apology-indigenous-kids-are-still-being-removed-from-their-families

  148. August 6, 2016 10:52 am

    for those that still don’t get it…

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  149. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 6, 2016 12:07 pm

    What will you be doing census day?

    My work colleague who lives alone phoned for his paper census form, he told them there would be no-one at his house on census night as he would be working might duty. He said that when he put in zero on the automated paper delivery request service he got put through to a real person straight away. He was told that it takes up to 10 days for the form to be delivered and the form should be backdated to the 9th. When he asked what happens if there is no-one home at his house on the night of the census, he was told that he would still be home for some of the day and they have changed ‘the thingy’ this year to include the whole day.

    Looks like they are just making it all up as they go along.The citizens will not dissent from planned data mining and matching for the next 99 years. We will have our private data sold off to anyone who wants it and govt wants to know who you are, what ethnic group you belong to and what you are doing every minute of every day. Much easier to manage eh?

    Here’s what the ABS doesn’t want you to know about the 2016 Census
    http://whistleblower.network/2016/07/28/heres-what-the-abs-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about-the-2016-census/

    …The source document is an FOI request made by James Smith via Right to Know in mid April 2016 and available here. This document is presented as a series of images as there was very little of it could actually be copied directly due to the very extensive redactions. Thanks to @ellipsii for drawing our attention to it…

    Well, thanks to that FOI request, we now know just what they plan to do with the info don’t we? 😆

  150. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 6, 2016 12:16 pm

  151. TB Queensland permalink
    August 6, 2016 12:23 pm

    You really are a nasty piece of work.

    Why? Do you disagree that one abused child is too many?

    If I did what the NT government did I’d be in JAIL!

    Why aren’t they? Oh, they run the police, the judiciary everyfknthing in NT …

    ——————————-

    If you are offended that I suspect you do not have children I apologise (I wouldn’t have a clue if you don’t or do) …

    … as a parent and grandparent I have never seen my children as a statistic and never could …

    … someone who could spend half a day discussing/arguing statistics has a diametrically opposed view of people to me … it belittles the real issue – children being abused.

    Bullying, beating, frightening and gassing kids will not fix their issues only radicalise them more … whatever race they are fortunate or unfortunate enough to be born into and whatever circumstance … ALL children need to be nurtured …

    … and I do agree that the original causes of domestic circumstance need to be addressed (not talked about) …

    What’s that famous line by JC? “Suffer the Little Children to come unto me.”

    Mmmm …

    Know it all? (and your offended?)

    If I don’t learn something and/or experience something new each day, I see no point in hanging around the planet!

    And I have never claimed to know it all … I only comment with opinions like everyone else here … and attempt to back it up with personal experience or knowledge … and reasoning … (more than most here) …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I actually popped in to share a personal experience with everyone anyone interested – we are just harvesting two* frames of honey (we have six frames) from our Flowhive … looks like we’ll end up with 3 – 4 kgs …

    And it tastes beeuutiful!

    A bee takes three weeks to hatch from egg … it will live for six weeks and produce a twelfth of a teaspoon of honey in its lifetime … the Queen can lay up to 1500 eggs a day …

    We started with 10,000 bees (a nuc – “nuke) and will end up with around 40,000 (if we haven’t all ready) …

    *gotta leave the tenants some tucker!

  152. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 6, 2016 12:48 pm

    Why? Do you disagree that one abused child is too many?

    TB

    How much child abuse happened from 2008-2013? There were 50,000 boat people locked up by the govt you voted for. 8,469 children were locked up by Rudd/Gillard and the people who voted for them.

    Lefties only get out of bed when the Coalition is in power.

  153. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 6, 2016 12:54 pm

    …As an Aboriginal mother, I am deeply concerned that our national broadsheet finds the neglect of Aboriginal children to be a source of entertainment and ridicule…

    …As a daughter of an Aboriginal man and the wife of an Aboriginal man, I know that Bill Leak’s claim that Aboriginal fathers are neglectful is not representative of Aboriginal family life. Instead, this cartoon is representative of a white man’s imagining of Aboriginal men…

    …Let us not forget the more recent claims by former federal ministerial advisor Gregory Andrews who appeared on ABC’s Lateline under a false identity and claimed that he “saw (Aboriginal) women coming to meetings with broken arms, and with screwdrivers or other implements through their legs”. These claims (later found to have no basis) formed part of the moral imperative for the Northern Territory intervention.

    In response to the criticism that his cartoon has sparked, Leak claims that he is being criticised for simply telling the “truth”. But the moral authority of white men and their supposed truths about Aboriginal people needs to be contested…

    …The responsibility that is being absolved in Leak’s cartoon, is one that has long been avoided, and that is of the abuse experienced by Aboriginal people within government run/sanctioned institutions, be they missions, reserves, dormitories, detention centres, or gaols, most of which have been under the stewardship of white men…

    The fact that white men were absent from Leak’s caricature about Aboriginal people’s contact with the criminal justice system was also profoundly revealing. Casting an Aboriginal man in the cartoon as the police officer with baton was no misstep on Leak’s part – it sought to absolve white responsibility and restore white virtue…

  154. August 6, 2016 2:03 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  155. TB Queensland permalink
    August 6, 2016 2:14 pm

    And the original issue is slowly drowned …

  156. Tom R permalink
    August 6, 2016 2:18 pm

    And the original issue is slowly drowned …

    No, as Tony pointed out, the fact that Aboriginal fathers abandon their children at a rate of 8 times that white fathers do is still On The Table!!

    Or something like that?

  157. Tom R permalink
    August 6, 2016 2:26 pm

    Oops, my bad TB, the ORIGINAL issue, which is about prison guards being victimised by their victims prisoners.

    The beauty of the oz, when writing a story about potential smearing of guards, gleefully smear the victim prisoner in question. leak is right at home amongst those callous assholes

    Department of Correctional Services internal reports obtained by The Weekend Australian depict Dylan Voller, 19 next month, as a violent and manipulative inmate who routinely assaults and spits on staff, and vandalises prison equipment.

    Yes, so the reports of people who have been exposed of victimising those in their care are happily paraded into the pages of the smearstralian, whilst they react with alarm that the victim prisoner might say nasty things about his tormentors protectors.

  158. TB Queensland permalink
    August 6, 2016 5:31 pm

    NT IS Oz Guantanamo Bay v 2.0?

    21st Century? More like 12th Century?

    The Medieval Inquisition is a series of inquisitions (Roman Catholic Church bodies charged with suppressing heresy) from around 1184, including the Episcopal Inquisition (1184–1230s) and later the Papal Inquisition (1230s). It was in response to movements within Europe considered apostate or heretical to Western Catholicism, in particular the Cathars and the Waldensians in southern France and northern Italy. These were the first inquisition movements of many that would follow. The inquisitions in combination with the Albigensian Crusade were fairly successful in ending heresy.

    12th century France witnessed the widespread growth of Catharism, a dualistic belief in extreme asceticism which taught that all matter was evil, accepted suicide and denied the value of Church sacraments.

    Nothing changes … nothing is new …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Here’s some stats for you from Michael Caulfield’s “The Vietnam Years” …

    Highly recommended particularly for Vietnam Vets, regular and nasho members, their families, friends and generally for anyone who lived through the Vietnam years and/or is interested in them … 1962 – 1972 …

    Over 61,000 Australians served in Vietnam

    42,700 Army
    12,858 RAN
    4,706 RAAF
    1118 Civilians
    51 Staff from philanthropic organisations

    520 Servicemen died
    2,398 Were wounded

    804,000 Australian men *registered for National Service
    63,375 were called up
    19,450 served in Vietnam
    200 died (over 40% of deaths)
    1479 were wounded

    It is estimated that the overall casualties of the war totalled almost six million and its cost was US$176 billion …

    The Vietnam war lasted for a decade …

    Australia was never asked to participate Menzies made the decision (to curry favour with the USA)

    Vietnam call it The American War …

    *were forced to

  159. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 6, 2016 6:59 pm

  160. TB Queensland permalink
    August 6, 2016 7:01 pm

    Chuckle!

  161. August 6, 2016 7:04 pm

    You,,,,,talk a big game TB. You`re a tough guy, according to you. Not a wimp like all those other people pissing around with stats,,,,,,

    # ,, Oh dear. Somebody seems to have `self-identified` in a big way. (-:

  162. August 6, 2016 7:25 pm

    depict,,,,Dylan Voller, 19 next month, as a violent and manipulative inmate,,,,,

    # ,, the real problem is boltland closed it`s secure mental-health hospitals under teabag-premier wife-beater, NT probably never had them, both(states) have made mental-health the problem of plods and prisons-depts in many cases. #show.me.the.statistics

  163. August 6, 2016 7:52 pm

    lnstead of merely regurgitating brain-fart bullshit from Limited-News and it`s paid-trolls, those claiming interest in `statistics` may want to dig-up the `statistics` on the %-of prisoners that are on `mental-illness` medication, or the `statistics` of those prisoners that are considered `repeat-offenders` and how many times they are dumped in the gulags without treatment.

  164. August 6, 2016 7:55 pm

    correction, both(states) have made mental-health the problem of Unsuspecting CITIZENS, plods and prisons-depts

  165. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 12:29 am

  166. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 12:29 am

  167. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 1:23 am

  168. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 9:34 am

  169. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 7, 2016 9:50 am

    Go Danny!

    Daniel Andrews’ contentious deal with the militant firefighters’ union could end up costing taxpayers nearly $700 million, with leaked documents suggesting the Premier may have misled Parliament – and the public – about the true price of the agreement.
    Victoria’s financial watchdog will be called to investigate, after Fairfax Media obtained figures estimating that the cost of the industrial deal could be in the order of at least $663 million – dramatically higher than the $160 million figure previously cited by Mr Andrews, Treasurer Tim Pallas and Emergency Services Minister James Merlino.

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/firefighter-union-deal-could-cost-almost-700-million-leaked-documents-20160806-gqmmli.html

  170. TB Queensland permalink
    August 7, 2016 10:08 am

    Roberts should be deported – quietly one dark night – to wherever he slithered from … do we have any “empirical evidence” that he’s a Queenslander? (8-(

  171. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 10:48 am

  172. Tom R permalink
    August 7, 2016 10:49 am

    lol@yomm. You keep believing what ‘Boards” and their lackeys, the media, say. Another story about nothing

    A CFA spokeswoman said the figures obtained by Fairfax Media had since changed – “as they relate to a previous version of the enterprise agreement” – but she could not provide an updated figure.

  173. August 7, 2016 10:50 am

    Guffaw. The pinkists on twitter are working-up a lather over my abc and insiders today.

  174. August 7, 2016 11:13 am

    Another,,,,,,story about nothing,,,,,

    # ,, l notice much of fairfax stuff now-a-days is crap too, following Limited-News down the garbage chute, tho l suspect boo-melb selected and bolded to his onion fetish, l didn`t bother reading it as l don`t care if the boltsville idiots burn their state to the ground

  175. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 12:27 pm

    I was always of the opinion that the professional firefighters, the ones who do the work as a career [plus attend all the safety training, inservices and updates] should be the main event . After all, in what other organisations do the volunteers get to have such a huge say in the running of things? They help out in their spare time don’t they, assumedly because they want to be useful?
    Are you saying tomM, that the volunteers in say a hospital or a business, or even in rugby, should have more say than the professionals or the management?

    it has always seemed to me to be a turf war and the volunteers want to be a vigilante organisation rather than part of a united service.

    Perhaps firefighting works differently.

  176. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 7, 2016 12:35 pm

    Really? The CFA relies on volunteers. 90% of the stations are volunteer. There are only paid firefugjters in the town based services and the greatest danger is bushfire in small communities

    The EBA covered people don’t exist in those area.

  177. TB Queensland permalink
    August 7, 2016 12:38 pm

    Hear! Hear! KL …

    Union Obsession has some strange, if illogical, outcomes … Unions! BOO!

  178. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 12:39 pm

    Should the Dad’s Army of defence reservists and volunteers have equal power and control of australia’s defence as the defence chiefs and army heirarchy?
    I would think that the reservists have a representation at committee level and their voice is heard, but they wouldn’t get to run their own show without oversight [and command] by defence.

  179. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 7, 2016 12:44 pm

    That’s not a relavant analogy … except can you imagine the chaos in the army if soldiers were unionised and the officers had to consult and agree with the union about operational decisions!

    That’s the CFA situation and it’s a long way from the clear lines of command and confrol the RC recommended

    (Queue TB to chime in that this would improve decisions)

  180. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 12:51 pm

    The EBA covered people don’t exist in those area.

    So the volunteers are the big fish in a small pond who don’t like anyone interfering in their chosen empire?

  181. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 12:58 pm

    Would it be more a case of anti union farmers/landowners vs professional career firefighters who happen to be unionised? Most critical services employees are eg police, nurses, firefighters etc

  182. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 7, 2016 1:43 pm

    All employees are entitled to engage in collective bargaining

    My objection is that the UFU extend their “consult and agree” requirements into.volunteers who are then left unrepresented.

    And EBA requirements to consult and agree are inefficient, managers exist to make operatuonal decisions and awards/EBAs exist to protect the rights of those effected by the decisions

    But the grubby political interference by Andrews to deliver this agreement to the UFU is the worst facet of the entire affair

  183. TB Queensland permalink
    August 7, 2016 1:49 pm

    (Queue TB to chime in that this would improve decisions)

    There ya go again, ToMMY … thinking for me … in fact the military uses both autocratic and democratic management styles … and some consultative …

    Because my Corp was a trade/technical specialist unit, rank was often a side issue, getting the job done was. And an open and consultative communication was maintained …

    … for things military – eg drill orders on a parade ground or in a contact situation in combat revert to the ADFs strengths – training, procedure and leadership! (Exactly the same as Firefighters) … because people’s lives are at stake …

    The ADF is not a particularly good analogy, KL, the Reserves and the Regs actually train and are deployed together these days with the same leadership … for instance 1st Commando Regiment (Special Forces) has both regs and res.

    BTW, the ADF had similar problems with Cut Lunch Cowboys/Weekend Warriors UNTIL they integrated their training, command and policies/procedures into the Regular Army …

    National Service taught the Army that lesson … only the soldiers knew who was nasho and who was reg …

    The argument is not about unions – its about protecting cushy jobs and power turf …

    Would I want professional firemen to attend a fire at my house or volunteers? Is a no brainer surely …

  184. TB Queensland permalink
    August 7, 2016 1:52 pm

    The ADF is not a particularly good analogy, KL,

    Correction … IS a good analogy …

  185. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 7, 2016 2:13 pm

    YEAH! TB!

    FMD.. . if you live 200 km from the nearest fire station with paid firefighters who do you think is going to attend the fire in the bush that’s threatening your house?

    Are you for real?

  186. Tom R permalink
    August 7, 2016 2:52 pm

    the officers had to consult and agree with the union about operational decisions!

    The eba inclusion only affects about 7 stations from the hundreds, ones where both cfa and paid firies operate. Many links have been put showing cfa members from those stations don’t have an issue. stations that are 100% volunteer don’t have any impact from this eba from on the ground decisions.

    And EBA requirements to consult and agree are inefficient

    Perhaps you can highlight where this is so so we can examine them. Try to refrain from the term ‘veto’, if you are able.

  187. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 2:52 pm

    I’ve had a bit of a read up on the issue here

    What’s the Victorian government’s dispute with the CFA about? And how will it affect the election?
    http://www.themandarin.com.au/67080-whats-victorian-governments-dispute-cfa/

    If an enrolled nurse or nurse aid wants to do the same work as an RN, they should take on the same academic study and financial expense to gain the qualifications to do so, not expect to do it without making the financial and academic commitments made by their RN colleagues. There is a difference in training and level of knowledge and experience, which is why hospitals ensure that enrolled nurses and nurse aids are supervised by RN’s for public safety.

    Yes, they can all work together and do so, but enrolled nurses do not have autonomy or authority over RN’s and neither of them are given autonomy from doctors in the health system hierarchy.

    If the volunteer firefighters want to have it all, they should stop being volunteers, leave their day jobs and commit to being a qualified, professional, career firefighter, otherwise, accept being supervised in the interests of public safety.

  188. Tom R permalink
    August 7, 2016 2:58 pm

    If the volunteer firefighters want to have it all

    We have to be clear ao, it is not the volunteers who are up in arms about this. It is the paid members of the cfa, the ‘Board” and such, who see their failures from the past losing them the powers they once have.

    For the volunteers, the only change that I’ve seen is that they need to make sure they are up to date with the latest safety and procedures, which only a fool could argue against.

    Isn’t that right yomm 😉

  189. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 7, 2016 3:12 pm

    FMD.. . if you live 200 km from the nearest fire station with paid firefighters who do you think is going to attend the fire in the bush that’s threatening your house?

    I doubt that anyone would expect a property to burn down because there wasn’t a professional firefighter in the vicinity.

    I assume that’s why the CFA came into being in the first place.

    They can talk on a mobile phone to the fire station 200 k’s away can’t they?

    We have to be clear ao, it is not the volunteers who are up in arms about this. It is the paid members of the cfa, the ‘Board” and such, who see their failures from the past losing them the powers they once have.

    So, it’s political rather than industrial? Turf protection and powermongering of the rural squattocracy?

    For the volunteers, the only change that I’ve seen is that they need to make sure they are up to date with the latest safety and procedures, which only a fool could argue against.

    It would be the least that the public should expect.

  190. Tom R permalink
    August 7, 2016 3:18 pm

    I doubt that anyone would expect a property to burn down because there wasn’t a professional firefighter in the vicinity.

    Except that volunteers cover the vast majority of the land area in Victoria, as they do in most states. I know that we’ve had times when we’ve had fires in the hills, and the volunteers are run of the ground, the MFS sit at the line of their territory. They will only enter if asked, even though other CFS units will come from the other side of town. It’s a really weird set up, to the uninitiated, yet seems to work.

    Turf protection and powermongering of the rural squattocracy?

    Bingo. Which is why it is being led by lies from the boardroom, and helped along by the “investment class” friend at the msm and the libs.

    There may be areas where negotiations can still take place, but, with the amount of times the cfa board has reneged on previous agreements, is it of any use?

  191. Tom R permalink
    August 7, 2016 3:30 pm

    Why he hates our freedom? Why haven’t people of his religion condemned his actions?

    As the “investment class” sit back and pat each other on the back for a job well done.

  192. Tom R permalink
    August 7, 2016 5:01 pm

    The nail being hit firmly on the head

    Luke Pearson
    Bill Leak didn’t encourage a difficult conversation, he gave people a scapegoat; an easy way out from having to consider in depth the cause of alcoholism and family breakdown in Aboriginal communities

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/07/im-an-aboriginal-father-i-dont-want-my-kids-to-see-racist-garbage-in-the-media?CMP=share_btn_tw

  193. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 7, 2016 6:30 pm

    Yep, good managers know when to consult and when to make decisions. That’s the military model and apples to most organisations.

    Imagine the army with unionised soldiers and an EBA that required officers to consult and agree, with disagreements going to FWA!

    Yep, that would really provide unambiguous command and control!

  194. Tom R permalink
    August 7, 2016 7:06 pm

    Wow, so the cfa are now our defense force lol

    I think your shovels about to hit the bottom of that hole you’re in,but don’t let that stop you

  195. August 7, 2016 7:07 pm

    Yep,,,,,,good managers know,,,,,, that 16-Jets shot-down are not enough to declare the battlefield is hot, or even admit the battlefield exists when it comes to saving a bit of petrol-money, and my ability to identify ,,,,,good-managers,,,,, is sound!!!! ROFL

  196. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 7, 2016 7:30 pm

    AO and TB raised the analogy with the defence forces. Blame them.

  197. TB Queensland permalink
    August 7, 2016 8:55 pm

    Are you for real?

    People trained by PROFESSIONAL firefighters!

    Not the local Firestone Fops!

  198. TB Queensland permalink
    August 7, 2016 9:01 pm

    AO and TB raised the analogy with the defence forces. Blame them.

    For what … the CFA needs professional help? And people like you deny it because of a profound fear of unions? BOO!

  199. TB Queensland permalink
    August 7, 2016 9:02 pm

    Is that the only gif you have? Boy?

  200. Tom R permalink
    August 7, 2016 9:32 pm

    Blame them.

    So, they handed you a shovel. It doesn’t mean you had to keep digging.

    Not the local Firestone Fops!

    I’d tread warily disparaging the volunteers TB, they do a fantastic job. As I’ve worked out, it isn’t the actual volunteers who are stirring this pot, although many had initially been sucked in by the fear mongering. It’s the chiefs in their little fiefdoms worried about their cushy little thrones being under threat from accountability.

    The likes of yomm etal are only concerned with the union bashing angle, as is his M.O.

  201. An Other Country permalink
    August 8, 2016 12:13 am

    (White kid: “Can you make me an Aborigine?”

    Pryor: “I can’t make you an Aborigine. But I think deep inside you’re asking questions and you’re listening and you’re learning. It’s sort of making you into an Aboriginal person in your heart. Because that’s what everybody has to do, is be open. Then the learning will come.”)

  202. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 9:43 am

    I’d tread warily disparaging the volunteers TB, they do a fantastic job.

    TR, my intention was to draw a comparison between trained regular professionals and semi-trained and a seemingly “separatist” amateur organisation … volunteers are by nature enthusiastic and deserve all the praise they get …

    … fear of being caught incompetent, foolish management, lack of leadership and brain numbing turf protection are the “usual” causes … not a union.

    This is a Mexican issue that I confess “hasn’t piqued my attention” – to coin an infamous phrase … 🙂

  203. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 10:11 am

    You fucking leftist cunt! Unions Yay! Volunteers get fucked! We don’t need citizens we need unionists, right? Unons buy ALP as a means of extending their power and the ALP corruptly complies so TB ditches his moral compass and becomes an instant expert in analingus.

  204. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 10:27 am

    analingus: common term to describe splatarse Speak

  205. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 10:35 am

    “””Go on say something, you’ll feel better…””” LOL!

    Wow! How humbled I am …

    Is that being “trolled”?

    Nothing personal then? ~(:-D

  206. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 10:36 am

    Premier Daniel Andrews has dismissed claims his wage deal with the firefighters union could cost almost $700 million, claiming it is based on old information, politically motivated and wrong.

    Mr Andrews is standing by his earlier assertion before Parliament – based on calculations by the Department of Treasury and Finance – that the industrial deal will cost no more than $160 million over four years.

    In further comments aimed at the beleaguered public agency, Mr Andrews on Sunday suggested the estimate was politically motivated, out of date, and based on incorrect assumptions.

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/andrews-dismisses-claims-cfa-pay-deal-could-cost-700-million-as-wrong-20160807-gqmtmw.html

    Yea, perhaps yomms been whispering in their ears ‘veto, veto, veto’ 🙂

  207. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 10:36 am

    This might help, sb …

  208. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 10:39 am

    I’m sure you are an expert at analingus, Tom R. Your specialty is, no doubt, your highly prized ability to use your pointy little head as a butt plug. No sooner has some gaping leftist anus started dribbling shit to the media when Troll R is in there spreading FUD and heading off damaging leaks, plugging the gap so to speak.

  209. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 10:43 am

    “Wow! How humbled I am … “

    This is never going to happen. It is very definitely not your strong suit. In fact it is not an emotion you will ever feel.

  210. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 11:11 am

    You know everyfing, sb … but you seem angry so much … like your brain is ready to explode or sumfing?

    Surfing’s good – talk to ToM … oh, you do? 😉

  211. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 11:31 am

    I am always sweet and self-deprecating TB, in case you hadn’t noticed.

    But the deliberate decision to sacrifice volunteerism for union power is a vile attack on the Australian culture and way of life. I have family who are volunteer fire-fighters and I know the training regime they have and, therefore, I know that you are malicious lying cunt.

    So yes, I am a little bit exercised by this issue because it is another act of Unionland bastardry. Apparently, the “society” you want to live in doesn’t have citizen volunteers, just greedy mongrel unionists. Kill. Them. All.

    +++++

    Also, you might have missed the Rousseau quote I left for you. (To be clear I just thought it would interest you.)

  212. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 12:00 pm

    deliberate decision to sacrifice volunteerism for union power

    You’ll have to point out where that has happened, except if you mean that volunteers rushing into harms way are going to be required to be prepared to rush into harms way?

    I understand that the current push is for LESS ‘red’ tape, but, with asbestos now rushing into our country on the back of this LESS ‘red’ tape, is that really a better outcome?

  213. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 12:05 pm

    lols@wun_nation

  214. August 8, 2016 12:22 pm

    One Nation is asking birther questions about @samdastyari and he’s not having a bar of it – “you’re drunk. Log off”

    Hey Tom R, I definitely do not go in for any of this birther crap, but weren’t you the one demanding to see a copy of Tony Abbott’s birth certificate, or passport, or something, on the grounds he isn’t an Australian citizen? 😉

  215. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 12:24 pm

    Dastyari, should not be in parliament. He is emblematic of the rottenness of the ALP. Straight from uni, via Hawker Britten and NSW Labor to the Senate by age 30. His real life experience consists of making deals as a lobbyist and party hack and covering up for Unionland criminality. And he is a populist in the Pauline Hanson tradition – slightly better at it in fact but every bit as vile. Bull Shitten better be careful of this smiling assassin.

  216. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 12:25 pm

    or something
    or something

    on the grounds he isn’t an Australian citizen?

    On the grounds that he has dual citizen ship, which we know he did, but which has never been shown that he hasn’t revoked his British one.

    If you think THAT is birther crap, then it could be legitimately claimed that you yourself are a Birther.

    Unless you can supply the information he has refused, to date (even after holding the highest position in the land) to show.

    Just because others ask stupid questions, doesn’t mean that legitimate ones can’t be asked.

    Or do you not care about the requirements to be a parliamentarian?

  217. August 8, 2016 12:27 pm

    “Or do you not care about the requirements to be a parliamentarian?”

    Not really.

  218. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 12:30 pm

    Is splatteredanalingus getting more shrill, or is it just me?

  219. August 8, 2016 12:30 pm

    One requirement I might care about would be to have at least half a brain and a tiny bit of integrity. Fat chance of that happening.

  220. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 12:32 pm

    “Is splatteredanalingus getting more shrill, or is it just me?”

    You’ve always been shrill.

  221. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 12:44 pm

    Not really.

    Yea, it’s not like they are Union reps or anything, are they lol

  222. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 12:45 pm

    You’ve always been shrill.

    Be that the case or not, I note you didn’t address the actual question.

    Again 😉

  223. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 1:35 pm

    I did answer the question – it is just you – but you’ve always been that way.

  224. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 1:39 pm

    “I note you didn’t address the actual question.”

    You see, I have learned something from you. Are you going to give me a gold star for mastering this aspect of trolldom?

  225. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 8, 2016 1:40 pm

    Tom R – are you seriously ridiculing someone that is asking for evidence of a politician relinquishing citizenship of another country??

    After all the ‘Abbott is English’ ranting you participated in?

  226. August 8, 2016 1:49 pm

    Hey, wait a minute. Tom of Melbourne is right! These are both the same question, only one is stupid and one is legitimate.

    “On the grounds that he has dual citizen ship, which we know he did, but which has never been shown that he hasn’t revoked his British one.”

  227. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 1:56 pm

    Tom R is being logical and consistent. His mission is to support Labor and attack the Libs.

  228. August 8, 2016 1:57 pm

    “”Victoria is at the centre of a national jobs boom, with the Andrews government on the cusp of hitting a target to create 100,000 full-time positions in its first two years.””

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victoria-to-hit-andrews-government-100000-fulltime-jobs-target-20160807-gqn1qb.html

    “”Go Danny!””

  229. August 8, 2016 2:05 pm

    In fact, there are many similarities between these two cases. (All details from Wikipedia.)

    Both men came here as young children.

    ‘Anthony John “Tony” Abbott (born 4 November 1957) … was born in London, to an Australian mother and a British father, and emigrated to Sydney, Australia, with his parents in 1960.’

    ‘Sahand “Sam” Dastyari (born 28 July 1983) … in Sari, Mazandaran Province, Iran to an ethnic Azeri father and Persian mother, Dastyari arrived in Australia in January 1988, aged four.’

    Both men identify as being members of a religion.

    ‘Abbott is a Roman Catholic.Prior to the 2013 Election, Abbott spoke of his religious outlook:’

    ‘Dastyari identifies as a “non-practising Muslim”.[12][13] In 2012, at a dinner to promote multiculturalism and “bring Muslims and others together to learn and understand each other’s culture and religious significance”, Dastyari said “Labor core values are similar to Islamic social values such as equal justice and respect for everyone.’

    And both are accused of being dual citizens of Australia and another country, while serving in the Australian Parliament. Those making the accusations against Abbott say their claims are “legitimate”, whereas they say the accusations against Dastyari are “stupid”.

  230. August 8, 2016 2:24 pm

    ”Victoria is at the centre of a national jobs boom, with the Andrews government on the cusp of hitting a target to create 100,000 full-time positions in its first two years.”

    Interesting story reb. Wait till Neil of Sydney gets on to this bit:

    ‘But some have questioned whether the bureau’s notoriously volatile figures are believable.

    ‘”The underlying softness in the labour market that we have highlighted for some time continues to linger behind the benign June outcome. Hours worked fell again in the month (-0.3 peer cent MoM, 0.6 per cent YoY), despite the rise in the number of jobs and the switch from full-time to part-time employment in the month. Trend employment growth remains very weak, and has slowed. And the trend in hours worked in the economy has been falling for six months.”

    ‘Macquarie Securities analyst James McIntyre said he believed underlying softness in jobs market had been lingering behind the headline employment figures, with hours worked down during the month

    ‘”The trend in hours worked in the economy has been falling for 6 months,” Mr McIntyre said in a recent report.’

  231. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:29 pm

    Tom R is being logical and consistent

    Er, no, Sam Dastyari is an Australian citizen, that is proven.

    Don’t be as ill informed as wun nation is

    Countries that prohibit dual citizenship

    http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Publications_Archive/CIB/cib0001/01CIB05

  232. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:32 pm

    I did answer the question
    ……….
    You see, I have learned something from you. Are you going to give me a gold star for mastering this aspect of trolldom?

    Unhingement Gold Medal lol

    And both are accused of being dual citizens of Australia and another country, while serving in the Australian Parliament

    Except, only one can legally be (and we know, WAS) a dual citizen.

    The other cannot be, under Australian citizenship laws. Therfore, HE CANNOT be a dual citizen.

    So, now we KNOW that Sam Dastyari is not a dual citizen, what about yabot?

  233. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:33 pm

    Wait till Neil of Sydney gets on to this bit:

    I’m all a quiver ….

  234. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:34 pm

    Also, you might have missed the Rousseau quote I left for you. (To be clear I just thought it would interest you.)

    No I didn’t and no it wasn’t … hogwash as you so succinctly wrote.

  235. August 8, 2016 2:37 pm

    “Er, no, Sam Dastyari is an Australian citizen, that is proven.
    Don’t be as ill informed as wun nation is”

    Guffaw. The point (as you know) is he is being accused of holding another citizenship as well – the same accusation you supported against Abbott. It’s the inconsistency of your position that’s amusing.

    “On the grounds that he has dual citizen ship, which we know he did, but which has never been shown that he hasn’t revoked his British one.”

    “Has @samdastyari relinquished his dual citizenship? If not, he should not be in Parliament under Sec 44.”

  236. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:40 pm

    And tight as a bow ?

  237. August 8, 2016 2:42 pm

    Like I said, this issue of parliamentarians holding dual-citizenship doesn’t bother me, especially in light of the very large number of dual-citizens in Australia.

    Interestingly, I found this at your link:

    “An issue of dual citizenship of particular interest to parliamentarians is section 44 of the Australian Constitution, which provides for the disqualification of intending Members of Parliament or Senators who hold the citizenship of another country. This issue was explored by the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Legal And Constitutional Affairs in 1997,(1) and most recently by the High Court of Australia in the Heather Hill case.(2) This issue is not addressed in this paper, except to note that the Australian Citizenship Council has argued that dual citizenship should be allowed for parliamentarians as well as for other Australian citizens, and that another measure of their loyalty to Australia-besides single citizenship-should be found. (3)”

  238. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:42 pm

    Jeese, TR, its fkn hard isn’t … bricks or planks … take your pick …

  239. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:42 pm

    Has @samdastyari relinquished his dual citizenship?

    The stupidness of that question is astounding, ESPECIALLY as you have just had it explained to you that Iran does not support dual citizenship.

    ergo, HE CANNOT HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP (or ever did)

    But yabot did, and we have seen no evidence that he ever relinquished his British citizenship.

    Which he legally MUST do in order to serve as Sam Dasyari is.

    And the fact that you are now peddling wun nations ignorance doesn’t speak too highly either.

  240. August 8, 2016 2:43 pm

    “Interesting story reb.”

    I didn’t get that far.

    I just read the headline.

    That’s me these days.

    Just the headline reader.

  241. August 8, 2016 2:44 pm

    But he’s a Muslin innit….?

  242. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:46 pm

    bricks or planks

    I’ll go with BRICKS!

  243. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:49 pm

    Interestingly, I found this at your link:

    Did you find the bit where the requirement to relinquish dual citizenship had been removed.

    Nah, didn’t think so. 😉

  244. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 2:50 pm

    But he’s a Muslin innit….?

    Well, a wannabe Muslim, or sumfink like that

  245. August 8, 2016 2:56 pm

    “The other cannot be, under Australian citizenship laws. Therfore, HE CANNOT be a dual citizen.
    So, now we KNOW that Sam Dastyari is not a dual citizen”

    Actually, we do not. Again from your link:

    “Australian governments have however had no power to affect citizenship laws, or their administration, in other countries. Australian governments have not, in particular, had the power to require immigrants from countries that do not allow it (such as Greece) [or Iran Ed.] to divest themselves of former citizenships when taking out Australian citizenship. The renunciation of former allegiances in the oath of allegiance sworn during Australian citizenship ceremonies was largely symbolic-it was legally unenforceable. Since 1986, reflecting public policies based on recognition of the multicultural nature of Australia, new citizens have not been required to renounce all other allegiances. Since 1986, successive governments have therefore not only tolerated, but even encouraged, dual citizenship for migrants.”

    Dastyari arrived in January 1988.

  246. August 8, 2016 3:02 pm

    “The stupidness of that question is astounding, ESPECIALLY as you have just had it explained to you that Iran does not support dual citizenship.
    ergo, HE CANNOT HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP (or ever did)”

    And I’m trying to explain to you that you’re incorrect.

    “Asia-Pacific:
    Most countries in the Asia-Pacific region restrict or forbid dual citizenship. But in some of these countries (e.g. Iran, North Korea, Thailand), it is very difficult or even impossible for citizens to renounce their citizenship, even when naturalizing in another country.
    Dual citizenship is allowed for example in Australia, Fiji, New Zealand, Philippines, Samoa, Tonga, and Vanuatu.[51]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship#Dual_citizenship_by_region

  247. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:09 pm

    And I’m trying to explain to you that you’re incorrect.

    And I’m trying to show you it is not

    http://www.dualcitizenship.com/countries/iran.html

    and

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_nationality_law

  248. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:18 pm

    So Dastyari know Iran cancelled his citizenship?

  249. August 8, 2016 3:19 pm

    “And I’m trying to show you it is not”

    Yes, but both of your links only prove my point:

    “Iran does not recognize dual citizenship as such. For the Iranian government, in practice, dual citizens are Iranian citizens only.[5] However, article 977 of the Civil Code of Iran deals with multiple citizenship. As a consequence of Paragraphs 4 or 5 of Article 976, some Iranian minors may have multiple citizenship. If they wish to retain the non-Iranian nationality after age 18, they have to inform Iran’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs.[6]”

    So as far as Iran is concerned, Dastyari is an Iranian citizen unless he renounced his citizenship”after age 18″. Which is the question One Nation is asking, and you asked of Abbott.

  250. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:21 pm

    Tom R, if Iran cancelled Iranian citizenship on the taking of Australian citizenship you would have a case. But your links merely say that Iran refuses to recognise the Australian citizenship.

  251. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:23 pm

    So if Sam has not renounced his Iranian citizenship to the Iranian government then he is a dual citizen.

  252. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:30 pm

    YEAH! DASTYARI MUST PROVE HE ISN’T A CITIZEN OF A FOREIGN POWER!!

  253. Reasonable Steps permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:31 pm

    (I renounce thee, I renounce thee, I renounce thee…

    Article 988 of the Civil Code of the Islamic Republic of Iran states, Iranian nationals cannot abandon their nationality except in the following conditions:

    The applicant have reached the full age of 25.
    The Council of Ministers has allowed the renunciation of the applicant’s Iranian nationality.
    The applicant have previously undertaken to transfer within one year from the date of the renunciation of Iranian nationality, by some means, the rights that they possess or may acquire by inheritance, on landed properties in Iran, to Iranian Nationals (Even if Iranian laws may have allowed the possession of the same properties by foreign nationals). The wife and children of the person who renounces his/her nationality, according to the Article do not lose their Iranian nationality, whether the children are minors or adults, unless the permission of the Council of Ministers allows them to renounce their nationality.
    The applicant have completed their national military service
    .)

  254. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:32 pm

    San Dastyari doesn’t have to renounce it, because, Australia doesn’t recognise it as a dual citizenship (probably because of the intransigence of the Iranian Government)

    Unlike abbott, who we have an agreement on dual citizenships with in the form of Britain

    As your quote mentioned

    Australian governments have however had no power to affect citizenship laws, or their administration, in other countries. Australian governments have not, in particular, had the power to require immigrants from countries that do not allow it (such as Greece) to divest themselves of former citizenships when taking out Australian citizenship.

    So Sam Dastyari doesn’t have to renounce it, as he cannot, but, as it highlighted earlier, we do not recognise it as dual citizenship, because of the manner in which Iran behaves. yabot has no such excuse.

  255. August 8, 2016 3:34 pm

    We could probably ask the same about various other English-, Scottish-, Belgium-, Chinese- and various other foreign-born past and current members of parliament. If we could care less.

  256. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:35 pm

    The onus of proof would be on the person asserting Dastyari is not dual citizen.

  257. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:36 pm

    Sorry. I meant “The onus of proof would be on the person asserting Dastyari is not a dual citizen.”

  258. August 8, 2016 3:36 pm

    I don’t like these black-is-white rabbit warrens. They’re too time consuming.

  259. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 3:39 pm

    We could probably ask the same about various other English-, Scottish-, Belgium-, Chinese- and various other foreign-born past and current members of parliament.

    We do/did.

    Gillard very publicly renounced hers.

    yabot has so far nothing like that on record

    The onus of proof would be on the person asserting Dastyari is not dual citizen.

    As I pointed out, since we don’t have any formal arrangement, then there is nothing TO renounce.

  260. August 8, 2016 4:01 pm

    As I pointed out, since we don’t have any formal arrangement, then there is nothing TO renounce.

    There actually is a formal arrangement, the same one you quoted when accusing Abbott. No foreign citizens are excepted in that document, not even Iranian ones.

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s44.html

  261. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 4:05 pm

    “As I pointed out, since we don’t have any formal arrangement, then there is nothing TO renounce.”

    I didn’t ask if you are stupid but thanks for confirming that you are!

  262. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 4:10 pm

    If parent of an immigrant child has become an Australian Citizen then the the child of the immigrant must declare their citizenship of another country before they turn 18 or they are automatically Australian Citizens and can apply for a Certificate …

    I know because The Minister was born in Freisland, Nederlands and was 18 months old when she arrived … and she had to declare or not (then at 21) … her father and mother were both very proud Australian Citizens … her brothers both served in the ADF one in the RAAF and one in the Army … the latter enlisted as a private and discharged 23 years later as a Captain … his brother was a Warrant Officer Radio Tech …

    Personally I arrived in Oz when I was 12 in 1961 … on my father’s passport … and until October 1983 when I became an Australian Citizen I had no citizenship at all – I was “classified” as a (British, I believe) Resident …

  263. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 4:12 pm

    If we could care less.

    So why pursue the issue?

  264. August 8, 2016 4:14 pm

    “So why pursue the issue?”

    Get fucked.

  265. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 4:15 pm

    ABC headline:

    Official taxpayer-funded Defence Department credit cards have been used to splurge on escorts and casino gambling worth more than $1,100 in the last three years.

    It really doesn’t look like much of a splurge at $333 per year! Whoever is responsible, Craig Thomson they ain’t.

  266. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 4:19 pm

    ““So why pursue the issue?””

    Because, as the masthead says, we are bunch of Opinionated Old Windbags!

  267. August 8, 2016 4:21 pm

    ‘A social post from Suncorp led news outlets such as The Guardian, Crikey and various trade publications to report the bank was removing all ads from The Australian.

    ‘However Suncorp tells AdNews this is inaccurate. It will continue to advertise with the Australian and it only moved one online advertisement so it did not appear on the same page as the cartoon.’

    Read more at http://www.adnews.com.au/news/suncorp-denies-reports-it-will-pull-ads-from-the-australian#kiiuMI6Jw9puZyJ2.99

  268. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 4:33 pm

    New One Nation senator Rodney Culleton is in police custody after turning himself in over an outstanding warrant related to his failure to appear in a NSW court to answer larceny charges.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/08/one-nation-senator-rodney-culleton-in-police-custody-after-turning-himself-in

    By election anyone?

  269. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 4:41 pm

    If Craig Thomson is anything to go by the process to remove him may be protracted. In the mean time ALP shills will be loudly crapping on a bout the presumption of innocence.

  270. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 8, 2016 4:43 pm

    Krauthammer on Trump:

    “…Trump’s hypersensitivity and unedited, untempered Pavlovian responses are, shall we say, unusual in both ferocity and predictability.

    This is beyond narcissism. I used to think Trump was an 11-year-old, an undeveloped schoolyard bully. I was off by about 10 years. His needs are more primitive, an infantile hunger for approval and praise, a craving that can never be satisfied. He lives in a cocoon of solipsism where the world outside himself has value — indeed exists — only insofar as it sustains and inflates him.

  271. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 4:51 pm

    Get fucked.

    Well at least its not personal … ’cause I know how you fume off-stage when you think it is – even if it’s not … but you are entertaining when your angry … ~(;-)

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Because, as the masthead says, we are bunch of Opinionated Old Windbags!

    Speak fer yersel’ laddie! ~{:-|)

  272. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 5:00 pm

    I always thought Trump was sloppy too …

    In the mean time ALP shills will be loudly crapping on a bout the presumption of innocence.

    D’ya fink? LOL!

    The West Australian senator was convicted in his absence earlier this year for stealing a tow truck key from a driver who was trying to repossess one of his company cars in 2014.

    Senator Culleton is also awaiting trial in WA later this month – the week before parliament begins – after he was arrested and charged for allegedly stealing a car being used by receivers from RSM Bird Cameron as they began foreclosure proceedings at a friend’s farm.

    Admittedly the second is only a charge … but there is a “pattern” here” …

    (And no I didn’t “defend” Thomson – just waited for the verdict … like I did with another local ALP arsehole Gordon Nuttall …)

    Innocent ’til proven guilty still prevails tho’ …

  273. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 8, 2016 5:08 pm

    Innocent ’til proven guilty still prevails tho’ …

    That’s not true TB, you, me and everyone else form opinions about the character of people, whether or not the police have investigated, charged or successfully prosecuted

  274. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 6:29 pm

    That’s not true TB, you, me and everyone else form opinions about the character of people, whether or not the police have investigated, charged or successfully prosecuted

    Wow, that was a surprisingly self aware comment yomm.

  275. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 6:32 pm

    Because, as the masthead says, we are bunch of Opinionated Old Windbags!

    And, unfortunately, only one of me can be right 😉

  276. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 6:49 pm

    That’s not true TB, you, me and everyone else form opinions …

    There you go again! What is it with RWNJ’s … let me repeat for you … instead of you putting your words, ideas and thoughts in your head into MY comments …

    INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY STILL PREVAILS THO’ … (Said because I believe it)

    Just because YOU don’t believe it … I DO … include yerself … not me …

    You may vaguely recall when I served on two juries in the same fortnight a couple of years ago and commented that unless you are in the courtroom every day for ALL the trial, you have no fkn clue as to guilt or innocence!

    … successfully prosecuted … means fkn guilty! Innocent until then …

    You should emigrate to France … there you are guilty until proven innocent.

    Comprendre? Mais oui?

  277. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 8, 2016 6:59 pm

    INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY STILL PREVAILS THO’ … (Said because I believe it)

    I’ll make sure I remember to use that line next time you reflect on anyone’s character.

  278. August 8, 2016 8:54 pm

    “I’ll make sure I remember to use that line next time you reflect on anyone’s character.”

    Next time? You don’t have to look very far up-thread to find current examples where presumptions of innocence are set aside and opinions are formed.

    Latest to earliest: Rodney Cullerton (By election anyone?), CFA management and volunteers (Not the local Firestone Fops!), Malcolm Roberts (should be deported – quietly one dark night – to wherever he slithered from), NT Government (“if I did what the NT government did I’d be in JAIL!), Noel Pearson (is also a RWNJ), Malcolm “Munchkin” (opinion), and Sonia Kruger (opinion?).

  279. August 8, 2016 8:56 pm

    Sonia Kruger (Sonia Kruger nee Bernardi? Who employs these morons).

  280. August 8, 2016 9:21 pm

    Did the pinkists enjoy my.abc.net.au/4corners/teabag-killing-season/ tonight???? #i.know.i.did (-:

  281. August 8, 2016 9:28 pm

    smh,,,,,ACMA agreed. Even though Mr Bolt said his viewers `chose facts above fear` and presented his views as facts, ACMA believed his use of overblown language would have made the ordinary person realise he was only giving an opinion,,,,,

    http://www.watoday.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/news-and-current-affairs/regulator-says-andrew-bolt-too-hyperbolic-to-be-factual-20160805-gqm7n9.html

    # ,, notice ack-ma said `ordinary-person`, NOT `imbecile-herd` #teabags

  282. TB Queensland permalink
    August 8, 2016 9:32 pm

    I’ll make sure I remember to use that line next time you reflect on anyone’s character.

    Ditto … I think The Charge of the Right Brigade has sent me quite enough personal insults this month … and over the years …

    The problem you have is that everything is blurred into one … demonstrates an untidy mind and thinking process …

    We are talking about legal issues not character assassination as in Unions! BOO!

    TB! BOO!

    It dawned on me years ago … when you start attacking me personally you’ve lost the plot – and usually the argument …

    And as usual ToSY grabs the coat-tails … get a fucking life …

    Opinions are not legal issues … fkn morons … as I said blur the issues …

    Opinions have nothing to do with innocent until proven guilty …

    Maybe I should refer to sb’s, lying ALP c**nt … I can assure I’m none of those … but nasty comments seem to be the trade-off here just lately … for a lack of discussion … no wonder we don’t see HDof the BL around anymore …

    Your concern about my remarks above … don’t include any criticism of the personal insults made against me recently or in the past …

    Typical hypocrisy … don’t even acknowledge apologies, ToSY … ?

  283. August 8, 2016 9:35 pm

    Hey onion-panic. Pj orourke is on qandaland tonight.

  284. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 10:02 pm

    and presented his views as facts, ACMA believed his use of overblown language would have made the ordinary person realise he was only giving an opinion

    So, acma tell the punters not to believe anything from the source they are supposed to be regulating., simply because of ‘overblown language’

    Speaks volumes

    And puts into doubt everything I ever heard from Professor Julius Sumner Miller

    Fucken overblown bullshit artist he must have been!

    Sorry acma, but when a dickhead tells us it’s a fact, then the punter should take that at face value, irrespective of the ‘overblown’ language used.

    But now, we must just assume that everything we see and hear on your mediums is just plain bullshit, just presented as ‘fact’

    Which is worrying, because, should I even believe the story that told us that?

  285. August 8, 2016 10:06 pm

    “Typical hypocrisy … don’t even acknowledge apologies, ToSY … ?”

    What, the kind of apology where you pretend not to know what you are apologising for? You’re a joke, and, I repeat, a nasty piece of work.

    I don’t want your faux apology. Fuck you, TB Queensland. You are a bitter, nasty old man.

  286. Tom R permalink
    August 8, 2016 10:14 pm

    Fuck you, TB Queensland. You are a bitter, nasty

    Something about that seems incongruous. I just can’t put my finger on it 😉

  287. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 7:58 am

    Forgive them for they know not what they do …

  288. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 9, 2016 8:22 am

    I won’t be filling in the census or allowing it to be filled in my name. I don’t see why the state needs to know what i do, where I go and what illnesses/medications I might need at different times. It is the function creep as well as the following of me through life that I don’t like about it, especially with this govt, – will all our data be sold off to business or the US allowed to peruse it at will?

    Apparently the most important thing in australia is the right of wealthy, powerful [and protected] white men to insult other people [minorities and brown skinned] in the name of free speech [and their big $].

    Free-speech fundamentalists break free of good conscience
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016-opinion/freespeech-fundamentalists-break-free-of-good-conscience-20160808-gqnhnw.html

  289. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:13 am

    Apparently the most important thing in Australia is the right of dumb leftist turds to pretend to be offended on behalf of those they so condescendingly refer to as “little brown people” and using that as an excuse to silence political views they don’t like hearing.

    Meanwhile in every nook and cranny there is some leftist leech, some publicly funded deadbeat drongo whose comfortable existence depends on fragmenting society into interest groups and fomenting hatred. That is where the big dollars are – society paying for its own destruction at the hands of dumb leftist mongrels.

  290. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:28 am

    “…some publicly funded deadbeat drongo whose comfortable existence depends on fragmenting society into interest groups and fomenting hatred…”

    Yeah, christensen, hanson, the Liberal Party, the nationals and those leeches on the abc, the murdoch media, not forgetting the IPA. They love taxpayer funded hate spruiking and public funded media.

  291. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:30 am

    Hmm, I don’t recall the discussion being about legality. And certainly all the exchanger about Craig were about character

    ALP barrackers always wanted to withhold judgement about character

    I don’t think critics of Craig were saying “guilty” but that on any rational examination he had a case to answer and showed very poor character

    Barrackers get very sensitive when presented with logic

  292. Tom R permalink
    August 9, 2016 10:01 am

    Lolyomm

    Even on this thread alone Thomson was equivilated (?) with a person who had a criminal conviction.

    Meanwhile splatalingus said ‘drone drone drone ‘

  293. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 9, 2016 10:10 am

    In advance of Craig’s inevitable conviction, I don’t recall saying he was guilty. That’s because he wasn’t found guilty at that time.

    But a range of barrackers wouldn’t even concede that he’d showed poor character and judgement.

    * wait for the FWA investigation to conclude
    * wait for the police investigation to conclude
    * wait for the court to decide
    * wait for the appeal
    * THINK OF THE BABY!!

  294. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 9, 2016 10:15 am

    At about the time Craig told us that someone on the Central Coast stole his phone, made the booking, stole his licence and credit card and had wild old party at the brothel and then unbeknownst to Craig, returned them to him before 2am, Tom R had his head firmly entrenched in Craig’s anus, Julia Gillard had full confidence in Craig and the rest of the country thought Craig was somewhat lacking in credibility. Craig had a teary moment in parliament as he lied to the country about his whore-rooting habits. Business as usual in Unionland.

  295. August 9, 2016 10:20 am

    I don’t think critics of Craig were saying “guilty”

    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

  296. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 10:32 am

    Australia is the right of dumb leftist turds to pretend to be offended … and dumb rightists – apparently … ~(:-D

    Breaking News!

    CRAIG Thomson was found guilty!

    Along with long string of state and federal politicians … ministers … CEO’s … union thugs … churches … big business owners … small business owners banks and financial institutions …

    But don’t panic, don’t panic … !

    The Second Cumming must be nigh!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    BTW could someone please tell me what ToSY is offended about … just so I can apologise properly.

    What, the kind of apology where you pretend not to know what you are apologising for? You’re a joke, and, I repeat, a nasty piece of work.

    ‘Cause I wasn’t “pretending” (such a cute word) … I really don’t have a fkn clue.

  297. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 10:38 am

    I don’t see why the state needs to know what i do, where I go and what illnesses/medications I might need at different times.

    Me neither … has anyone seen the census questions yet?

  298. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 9, 2016 10:44 am

    I have no idea TB. It seems the more we move on, the more things stay the same.
    How did craig thomsen come up again?
    Why must we harp back to the same stuff that’s been debated over and over a million times!

  299. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 10:51 am

    Must be a sense of loss, KL … 🙂

    Surely if you have to put in a code number its already linked to your name and address … ?

    So maybe we just answer negatively (or not) those questions we find inappropriate and/or personal … my GP won’t even touch the federal government medical database nor will we …

    +++++++++++++++++++

    Been a busy time around here just lately so we’re off to Gold Class – glass of bubbly and lunch with Jason Bourne … should be good …

  300. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 9, 2016 11:11 am

    “CRAIG Thomson was found guilty!”

    Eventually. But for about a year after it got to the point that Craig’s story could not possibly be true, after his credit card and licence details he gave to the brothel were put in evidence and even after he claimed his phone had been hacked, his credit card stolen and replaced (repeatedly and regularly), ALP arselickers could see no reason, none at all, why he should not enjoy the full confidence of the Gillard government.

    At that point the ALP and their cheerleaders were Craig Thomson. His lies were their lies. His credibility was and remains their credibility.

    On this issue there is a sharp distinction between those on the left side of things who called out Craig as unfit to enjoy the confidence of the government (like the blogmaster) and those rusted on arse-lickers who kept muttering about the presumption of innocence as though that was the relevant question.

  301. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 11:24 am

    The Cayman Islands No Longer a Haven

    The Cayman Islands has reported its first local transmission of the mosquito-borne Zika virus that has been spreading across the Americas since last year.

    MALfunction TurnAbbott is contemplating investing elsewhere … Australia would be good?

    No wonder our AAA rating is in question if even the PM won’t invest here …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    (like the blogmaster) and those rusted on arse-lickers who kept muttering about the presumption of innocence as though that was the relevant question.

    LOL! Double standards all in one sentence … that’s so offensive … LOL!

    Really WGAFF?

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    Now Four Corners was intersting last night I believe – I haven’t watched it yet … seems there was some messages for MALevolent in there … ?

  302. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 9, 2016 11:24 am

    On this issue there is a sharp distinction between those on the left side of things who called out Craig as unfit to enjoy the confidence of the government (like the blogmaster) and those rusted on arse-lickers who kept muttering about the presumption of innocence as though that was the relevant question.

    Exactly, that’s the point, not whether there was a successful criminal prosecution.

  303. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 9, 2016 11:33 am

    “…Me neither … has anyone seen the census questions yet?…”

    I don’t know if that’s a question in it TB, but it’s the function creep they talk about. They can match pbs & medicare and all other data to your name and other govt systems. It will be ongoing surveillance of everything you do and everywhere you go. Who knows what some mp or govt may want to with your data in the future without permission. A census rep said on TV that medicare & pbs data can be linked up when people may not have wanted to provide the info to you before or they may have felt uncomfortable asking for it! So, don’t worry about permission or privacy, we’ll just take it from you anyway! Australia said no to the australia card before because of privacy concerns and this will be the same card by stealth. You will get an identifying number that will easily be matched up to everything, no choice about it.
    Never mind the data security concerns and the willingness of Australian govts to surveillance it’s citizens without concern for privacy or rights. As someone else said, it’s as if we are expected to serve the govt rather than them serving us.

  304. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 9, 2016 2:32 pm

    “Really WGAFF?”

    You would say that, wouldn’t you?

    Of course if you can’t admit your errors you can’t learn from them, can you? Looks like you are rusted on for life!

    Enjoy the movie and the bubbly. 🙂

  305. August 9, 2016 3:30 pm

    Just did the census online. You can’t get past the “name” question by leaving the field blank. I tried to be creative here and got to the next question okay. There was nothing in it I felt uncomfortable answering (others might, who knows?) and answered the rest pretty much truthfully. When it came to date of birth I left that blank and used the age option. Date of birth is one of the main tools used to separate identities with matching names. I got right to the end where there’s a declaration that everything you put down is correct to the best of your knowledge. To me, the census is so unthreatening that I went back, put down my real name, ticked the declaration, and signed off.

    I’m now watching out the window for black helicopters.

  306. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 3:38 pm

    I’m now watching out the window for black helicopters.

    Or white with a red crescent?

  307. August 9, 2016 3:40 pm

    oh, there’s a box where they ask for permission to store your name details and release them after 99 years. We didn’t give that permission.

  308. August 9, 2016 3:44 pm

    Oh, I used my mobile and turned the wifi off. Tom R would know, but I figured that would keep our URLs from being attached to the record?

  309. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 3:47 pm

    Speaking of movie and bubbly … I haven’t done a film review for some time ..

    ____________________________________________________________

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FILM REVIEW <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    ————————- JASONBOURNE —————-

    Car chase … killings … CIA conspiracyies … hand to hand fighting … no nudity, sogging or bonking …

    … and two hours of …

    dadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadad … dadadadadaddadadd … dadadadadad …

    (’tis a tried and true format – produced by Matt Damon)

    TB ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ (predictable)

    The Minister ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐

  310. August 9, 2016 3:47 pm

    Url’s probably not the right term, but Tom will know what I mean. An identifying number thingy.

  311. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 3:47 pm

    soggy snogging

  312. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 3:52 pm

    … but I figured that would keep our URLs from being attached to the record?

    But you have an identifier number anyway that was sent to you to log in … so they know the address … and it wouldn’t be hard to find your name …

    And if you didn’t use Wi-Fi you would have been on 3G or 4G to send anyway …

    Thanks for sharing too gives us all a bit of an insight into what to expect … BTW can you change anything later? Go back before you sign off?

  313. Walrus permalink
    August 9, 2016 3:58 pm

    “oh, there’s a box where they ask for permission to store your name details and release them after 99 years.”

    Surely we will all be dead from the Climate Change Thingy. After all that’s the prediction

  314. August 9, 2016 4:01 pm

    “BTW can you change anything later? Go back before you sign off?”

    Yes you can go back and change anything at any time without losing the rest of your work, and you can save and close the unfinished form at anytime too, but you need to record the password they give at the start to get back in.

  315. August 9, 2016 4:03 pm

    Maybe I should have gone to a wifi hotspot to fill it out.

  316. Walrus permalink
    August 9, 2016 4:30 pm

    “Maybe I should have gone to a wifi hotspot to fill it out.”

    Yeah then some smart Nigerian sitting in a dark room 15,000kms away could have hacked your bank account and drained it.

  317. August 9, 2016 4:35 pm

    “Yeah then some smart Nigerian sitting in a dark room 15,000kms away could have hacked your bank account and drained it.”

    You, sir, are perpetuating a racist stereotype.

  318. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 4:37 pm

    Yeah then some smart Russian sitting in a dark room 15,000kms away … 🙂

  319. August 9, 2016 5:52 pm

    “”You, sir, are perpetuating a racist stereotype.””

    Chuckle.

  320. Tom R permalink
    August 9, 2016 6:59 pm

    who called out Craig as unfit to enjoy the confidence of the government

    And others who went quite a bit further than that.

    To me, the census is so unthreatening that I went back, put down my real name, ticked the declaration, and signed off.

    Which is for the best to Tony, as lying about your name would bring the same (potential) fine/s as not filling it in so I have heard.
    Me, I’ve folded, since everything is already so out there already, there’s really just nothing left to ‘hide’
    I’m just debating if I put “radical mushroom” for religion or not?

    Url’s probably not the right term, but Tom will know what I mean. An identifying number thingy.

    IP is what you are looking for Tony, and, although you could use a VPN, it’s kinda redundant, as the code they give you tells them the address anyway.

  321. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 7:03 pm

    Yeah, I just completed mine … nothing really weird but …

    Once the data is collected, the ABS says names and addresses will be separated from Census answers and never recombined.

    So why collect it at all? … ?

  322. August 9, 2016 7:09 pm

    “IP is what you are looking for Tony, and, although you could use a VPN, it’s kinda redundant, as the code they give you tells them the address anyway.”

    By ‘address’, are you referring to the street address (which I know they already have, because my number was posted to my city compound. 🙂 )? I just don’t want them to tie that in to my interwebs shenanigans.

  323. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 7:19 pm

    Oh oh!

    Compound?

  324. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 9, 2016 8:18 pm

    And others who went quite a bit further than that.

    Was that Patricia of WA?

  325. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 9, 2016 8:59 pm

    “BTW can you change anything later? Go back before you sign off?”

    Another person has tried it, he entered his name to get through into the questions and going back to delete it before submitting – it wouldn’t let him!

    Someone else said he pressed the space bar twice and that let him through.

    Me, I’ve folded, since everything is already so out there already, there’s really just nothing left to ‘hide’

    What is wrong with you people? Talk about easy! I don’t want to hear any of you talking up anti government this or small government that and how damn govt can’t be trusted.
    No need to just roll over for a tummy tickle!
    Why not help them out and put up the bracket and hinge ready for the CCTV outside your house and turn your wifi on?
    Mark my words, you’ll all be sorry one day 😆
    At least fudge a few!

  326. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:12 pm

    They said they had made it possible to take millions of people online at once easy!
    If we had an NBN maybe, perhaps they could make that a census question?

  327. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:13 pm

    ABS site crashed I see (so-o-o predictable) … if only we had a FTTP NBN operating … slow learning process … 🙂

  328. TB Queensland permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:14 pm

    Snap KL! 🙂

  329. August 9, 2016 9:17 pm

    I bet the cuntz at their own game and filled out the paper form using illegible handwriting. Fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke ..

  330. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:26 pm

    onya reb 😆

  331. August 9, 2016 9:29 pm

    Apparently if you don’t do anything tonight they’ll come round to your place and deliver a paper copy – up to five times if you’re not home – over the next couple of months. All the urgency about tonight is a little bit bullshit.

  332. August 9, 2016 9:30 pm

    *try to deliver a paper copy

  333. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:35 pm

  334. August 9, 2016 9:35 pm

    I piss on their intrusive big government data-mining census. Oh wait, I already dunnit. 😜

  335. Tom R permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:45 pm

    Well, there goes an hour of my life I’ll never get back. Filled it all in, submitted, an CRASH. Thanks malcayman, I hope I get paid if you want me to go through that again, or just start fining me now you incomptent wanker!

    Jesus, fucked the nbn, and couldn’t even get an online form right. That’s fucken agile you tool.

    So, where did all that data go then, straight to the Cayman s?

  336. August 9, 2016 9:48 pm

    “I piss on their intrusive big government data-mining census. ”

    Oh, so you iz a closet leftie after all… 😉

  337. Tom R permalink
    August 9, 2016 9:54 pm

    Oh, so you iz a closet leftie after all…

    More like now we know why it crashed!

  338. August 9, 2016 9:54 pm

    “Oh, so you iz a closet leftie after all… 😉”

    I swing both ways, it seems. 😳

  339. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 9, 2016 11:49 pm

  340. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 10, 2016 12:03 am

  341. August 10, 2016 7:27 am

    Didn’t I see Talcum on the telly the other night giving a rock solid guarantee that the online census system was absolutely secure?

  342. August 10, 2016 7:30 am

    I want my info back. The Government can’t be trusted to keep it safe.

  343. Tom R permalink
    August 10, 2016 7:46 am

    the online census system was absolutely secure?

    Well, for people who got there AFTER it crashed, it was pretty secure 😉

    I see they are blaming ‘hackers’

    Incompetence would still be my guess, but, apparently, there are quite a few upset Chinese swimming fans, so who knows?

    I want my info back.

    If you could contact us a toldyouso@sucker.com we can arrange to send it back via snail mail

  344. August 10, 2016 8:30 am

    Premature ejaculation.

  345. August 10, 2016 8:45 am

    Who are these people?

  346. August 10, 2016 8:55 am

    ‘Paul Brebner, a Canberra-based software performance expert who is familiar with large-scale public sector websites, said the Bureau of Statistics was prepared for 1 million people to be online simultaneously. However, he performed his own calculations and said they should have been ready for 3 million simultaneous users between the hours of 6pm and midnight.

    ‘”You can’t assume a uniform load across the 24 hours,” he said. “If they were expecting 16 million people over 24 hours, that would be okay, but that’s not how loads on websites work at all. There’s often one very big spike, and it’s hard to see how long it will stay in that level.”‘

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/census-2016-it-experts-say-bureau-of-statistics-should-have-expected-website-crash-20160809-gqosj7.html

  347. TB Queensland permalink
    August 10, 2016 9:20 am

    I don’t know what all the fkn fuss is about … as I filled it in I thought none of this is new and the government departments all link info anyway …

    eg: In 2003 we sold our car (in QLD) … we were contacted by the ATO from TASWEGIA who wanted us to pay tax on the sale … it was owned by our business they said … no, we said it was a private vehicle – we claimed mileage only – look at our past ten years tax … sorry they said … and life moved on …

    BUT! A vehicle sold in QLD and recorded by the state, who then transferred that information onto a website accessed by other government bodies … across the country … the government knows more about you than you will ever know yourself … and so does the CIA, so just hope Trump doesn’t get elected and sell it all to Putin!

    Metadata collection … who needs it? Really?

    Received my receipt @ 12:43 am … how nice …

  348. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 10, 2016 9:42 am

    Well, that went as expected didn’t it? 😀 👀

  349. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 10, 2016 10:27 am

  350. August 12, 2016 2:25 am

    I bet the cuntz,,,,,at their own game and filled out the paper form using illegible handwriting. Fuck `em if they can`t take a joke,,,,,#ditto (-: (-: (-:

  351. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 12, 2016 1:42 pm

    Islamic State is being Islamic – throwing another man from a high building for breaching the sharia law prohibition on homosexuality. This is a traditional Islamic punishment for that crime from the time of the Prophet.

  352. TB Queensland permalink
    August 12, 2016 6:40 pm

    It’s not just IS, sb …

    … my son in law worked in Saudi Arabia for 18 months … his observations would horrify you – stonings, beheadings (more than ISIS BTW)*, hangings, crucifixions, whippings – all in public, all on TV …

    But then the catlik drug lords in South America behead more than the muslims … at least they are discreet I suppose … it’s not on TV …

    And then you’ve got the Phillipines … open slather on executions for drug suppliers drug pushersdrug users (do you take drugs – I think you do – BANG!) … no trial … just lynch mobs … encouraged by the President … 81% – you guessed it … catlik …

    Thank goodness we live in Australia!

    What should we do about it?

    I know bomb the bastards … shit we haven’t enough and the Septic Tanks charge the earth for a bomb … and the planes are still coming – them F35’s will get ’em … eventually …

    We could send the army … all 30,000 … but then China might get crunchy with its 3 million!

    Navy? Don’t work on land and we really don’t have much …

    The world – as it always has been – is a shithouse … love the one your with …

    Just what is your point, sb?

  353. August 12, 2016 6:43 pm

    I think you mean “you’re..”

  354. TB Queensland permalink
    August 12, 2016 7:14 pm

    Dick! Happily Friday to you too …

    “clink”

    I think sb is maintaining his personal outrage … either that or he really don’t get the values of gutter trash … we don’t like any arseholes … whatever their religion!

  355. TB Queensland permalink
    August 12, 2016 9:46 pm

    I hated everyone and no one found me out

    Wow! Heavy shit, man!

  356. TB Queensland permalink
    August 12, 2016 9:58 pm

    This should please our resident Crusaders ….

    http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/45000-islamic-state-fighters-taken-off-battlefields/news-story/4ae3268e7c800a58575244d0f94a9e3a

    Dontcha luv the term “taken off the battlefield” … its fkn killed or wounded! Fer christ’s sake! Be a man!

    ~(;-)

  357. No Point permalink
    August 13, 2016 3:48 pm

    (The world – as it always has been – is a shithouse …

    That seems a tad pessimistic; I was almost led to believe that this is the best of all possible worlds.

    —————-

    Be a man!

    Notionally, (no) human(s) is/are a (wo)man: there’s no getting a strictly straight answer, either, or any, way, out of a multi-generational, chromosomally-(cross-)assortative, double-helical bio-mechanism; vacate the back-created myth of the individual(s) from what quite plainly is an evolved species which neither arises ex nihilo nor is made in anyone’s image who isn’t an Us; every pair-bonding is half-(or-more-)’gay’, even quasi-incestuous, insofar as it’s de facto selecting, in the present, from prior and/or for future (re)generat(iv)e(d) traits from-within-self-same and across (in)apparent sexy gender(ed)-lines; and, no doubt, (the (open) existence of) LGBTIQX people make(s) some(one(s) (else) who (already) embody(ies) that (embedded) verity ‘uncomfortable’; hence all the perpetually-unsuccessful and ultimately-mad attempts at (finally) ‘solving’ the (self-)created) ‘problem’ of (deemed) ‘degeneracy’/’corruption’; by enforcing population(s)-wide self-and-other(ed)-denial(s), typically, via one or another myth-begotten, dualistic cult(ure); and if thy goodself should want to eliminate a(nother) ‘sinful’ ‘gay’ who offends thy god’s gaze and/or magic-thinking fictionbook(s), throw thy (other(ed)self off a building; but, first, tell the truth, the whole truth, about your (lying) god(hood); or something like that.)

  358. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2016 5:40 pm

    Deep, informative and heavy, M … as usual … but … being pragmatically agnostic I’m not convinced …

    The world is full of hypocrites claiming to believe in an antagonistic all embracing loving god or three FFS! If the shithouse the majority of human beings live in is Its world … then we may as well join beelzebub … what’s the difference …

    I like the world I live in … but I feel for the people who aren’t in my world … and should be!

    1%ers have a lot to answer for … and twits who vote for Erdogan, Putin, and GOD FORBID! Trump … look what we got with The Mad Abbott … Compassion? Empathy? Fraternity? Egality? Equality? Human rights? Openness? Sharing? … and nothing has changed!

    “a tad pessimistic”? For the world … nah! … … I once was an idealist and – as all fallen idealist … open eyed, been there, been screwed, done that realist … my friend …

    To play with an old Yorkshire saying* … th’es o’ny thee and me ‘a’ trust … an’ ’em not so sure abeeat thee …

    (*’There’s only me and thee that’s perfect, and I’m not so sure about thee.’)

  359. TB Queensland permalink
    August 13, 2016 6:00 pm

    ‘Tis a cruel world for the poor – even in Australia!

    For many people, $4.40 a week is a small sum – trivial even. A cup of coffee on the way to work, the parking change in the car console.

    But for those Australians set to lose between $4.40 and $7.05 a week in one of the 45th parliament’s first legislative acts, many of them living below the poverty line, those small sums will make the dire choices of subsistence budgeting even more desperate.

    And, so the argument goes, the supplement was supposed to compensate for the carbon tax, and that got repealed, so the clean energy supplement has become an unnecessary and unjustifiable windfall. Something they don’t really need or deserve.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/13/axing-clean-energy-supplement-has-barely-caused-a-ripple-but-it-should

  360. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 14, 2016 9:48 am

    <i.How Uber Kapitalism is destroying the world

    I used one last night to get home from a restaurant. The driver didn’t seem to have any intentions about destroying the world.

    Maybe the ones in Queensland are a little more grumpy

  361. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2016 10:46 am

    a a ..

  362. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 14, 2016 3:26 pm

    “Just what is your point, sb?”

    That you are an ignorant ranting cunt. The things you so stupidly cited as ‘catlik’ are actually opposed by Catholic teaching. As opposed to those who imitate the murderous deeds of the Paedophile Prophet, they are not imitating Christ or implementing his teachings. But you, in your bitter twisted hatred, wouldn’t be able to work out the difference, would you?

  363. Yeps Point permalink
    August 14, 2016 5:33 pm

    (Yes, that is so, Splatterbottom of Tarsus. The Holy Roman Umpire has an astoundingly long, much-storied, and too-little-recognised historical role in railing against unChristian injustices visited upon so-called sodomites (a surprisingly extensive term, when in intensive, catholic use) for their imagined intrinsic evil, propensity for crimen pessimum, and aptness for imposition of penitence unto God’s preordained standard. Why, even the contemporary Catholic Church, today, considers its Mission, particularly in Christianised Africa, Asia, and the Americas, is to ameliorate the plights of the still- and increasingly-criminalised, unto death in some temporalities, by promoting respect for the dignity of persons, especially those who are deemed inherently disordered and are to have no place in the Kingdom of God.

    —————–

    How Uber Kapitalism is destroying the world

    Yep, all good here.”)

  364. TB Queensland permalink
    August 14, 2016 6:13 pm

    “Just what is your point, sb?”

    That you are an ignorant ranting cunt.

    Aw … BOO!

    I may be ignorant in your tiny world … but I well remember being told as a child … those who resort to foul language and insults have a very limited vocabulary …

    I spent most of my working life in auto workshops, the army, and on mine sites … your childish attempts at personal insults are laughable …

    You said nothing about my commenting skills in your original comment on the subject … it seemed more to be the fomenting of anger against a vile and cruel religious sect … not necessary in my case – I hate the pricks … I was just pointing out that it occurs to greater or lesser degree in all religions … not my problem if you only focus on one and defend another …

    What you fail to recognise is that the catliks I describe are good catlik members of their local churches and cathedrals, why, one of them is even el Presidente … what the church says and what it does are usually quite different … next you’ll be telling me that priests are happily married and don’t abuse altar boys … and that all bishops immediately report … oh wait, you can’t report something that doesn’t happen …

    Organised religion is organised by men who want control, power and wealth … that includes all religions … IS just happen to be thugs of the century … they all takes turns … none are clean – some are more surreptitious than others …

    All religions are dangerous … and especially their proselytising acolytes …

    And wot M said … I think 😉

  365. Tom R permalink
    August 15, 2016 7:02 am

    “Yep, all good here.”)

    Did anybody consider the fact that perhaps they are just “Exiles”?

  366. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2016 8:50 am

    No gods, no masters, no nations, no borders, no genders.

    Humans are evolving.

    Will religion be relevant?

    I see religion as a tool of the state, used to manipulate and control the population. Why else do governments work so closely with religion, force taxpayers to fund religion and MP’s become members of parliament to ensure laws reflect their personal religious views?

  367. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 15, 2016 9:23 am

    “… but I well remember being told as a child … those who resort to foul language and insults have a very limited vocabulary … “

    Obviously you hung around very stupid people as a child. Besides if you weren’t so wilfully obtuse I wouldn’t have to try to snap you back to reality with an expletive or two. 🙂

    ” was just pointing out that it occurs to greater or lesser degree in all religions … not my problem if you only focus on one and defend another … “

    Yes. That is your go to argument. It is also a pathetically stupid argument. You are forever into “look over there” and false equivalence. Any time someone criticises the ALP you always come up with something the other lot do ….. stupid, stupid, stupid. Funnily enough when you want to criticise someone you don’t also note that the other lot are just as bad. Not only are you disingenuous you are also a hypocrite.

    Now, your argument that the catliks are just as bad is full of shit. The examples you gave don’t hold water. The IRA never claimed a religious basis for their actions. In fact they are led by atheist socialists like Gerry Adams. The Catholic church forbids membership on pain of excommunication. But according to you that somehow proves Catholics are just as bad as ISIS. In fact your claim merely proves that you have let your anti-Catholic bigotry get the better of whatever intelligence you may once have had.

  368. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2016 10:11 am

    Obviously you hung around very stupid people as a child.

    I can assure you my Mother was a very intelligent woman!

    Not much point in answering your usual apoplectic, pointless, proselytising krystian rant …

    Organised religion = troubled, easily led and often dangerous simpletons

    Onward krystchun soldiers – I suppose …

    Have a nice day … ~(;-)

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Kennett has definitely lost the plot too … the Dickwit® was always a loser and now definitely proves it …

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/14/jeff-kennett-attacks-abc-over-don-dale-reporting-at-campaign-launch

    It were all an ABC conspiracy … the NT government and its supporters are very sick folk …

  369. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 15, 2016 10:20 am

    “I can assure you my Mother was a very intelligent woman!”

    Obviously you did not take after her!

  370. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 15, 2016 10:30 am

    Why else do governments work so closely with religion, force taxpayers to fund religion and MP’s become members of parliament to ensure laws reflect their personal religious views?

    Which state supports ISIS? We tend to relate all matters religious to our opinion of domestic politics and religion

  371. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 15, 2016 10:31 am

    no nations, no borders

    Why do lefties want One World Govt?

  372. Tom R permalink
    August 15, 2016 11:09 am

    Will religion be relevant?

    I reckon L Ron Hubbard showed it’s going to be around in one form or another for a while yet. 😉

    Why do lefties want One World Govt?

    Is it because we only have one World?

  373. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 15, 2016 11:33 am

    Is it because we only have one World?

    Well at least you admit it. Some Conservatives think AGW is a trojan horse to bring about one world govt.

  374. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2016 11:38 am

    Some Conservatives think AGW is a trojan horse to bring about one world govt.

    Those classic oxymorons keep cummin’ … “some conservatives think” LOL!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    We tend to relate all matters religious to our opinion of domestic politics and religion

    You may … the rest of us don’t …

    Is surfing a religion, I wonder? (;-)

  375. Tom R permalink
    August 15, 2016 12:10 pm

    Some Conservatives think

    LINK! 🙂

    ” “some conservatives think” LOL!” 😉

  376. August 15, 2016 12:36 pm

    German President Gauck: “The elites are not the problem, the populations are at the moment the problem“.

  377. August 15, 2016 1:24 pm

    (The holy roman ritual of sodomification is not permitted among the sheep, for them its ,,,,,breaching the sharia law prohibition on homosexuality,,,,, This `is-a traditional,` a core holy ritual, and is only permitted by those that have earned their `collars` from dog. `The time-of the Prophet` is still extremely strong among the sheep that dream of the day they can return to the magic apple garden containing talking snakes, and be sprinkled with pixie-dust, directly from the paw of dog.)

  378. August 15, 2016 1:41 pm

    Some,,,,,Conservatives think,,,,, #not.around.here.they.don`t (-:

  379. August 15, 2016 2:42 pm

    “Why do lefties want One World Govt”

    We don’t.

    We just want an apology, which, in case you hadn’t noticed, is now long overdue.

  380. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 15, 2016 3:19 pm

    The problem with one world government is that, at best, it will be a leftist wankocracy. The EU is inherently undemocratic. Voters cannot remove lawmakers from office. The European so-called parliament cannot even initiate legislation. Any one world government will not be more democratic.

    And then there is the necessary accommodation that will be have to be made with undemocratic states. Just look at the UN Human Rights Council to see what that might look like. Members include Russia, China, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia and other paragons of human rights.

    The dream of one world government is yet another example of the inherent fuckwittery of the elites. German President Gauck said recently: “The elites are not the problem, the populations are at the moment the problem.” Maybe the governing elites should go out and elect a new population to serve them then!!!

    Despite massive historical evidence to the contrary, leftists, in their moronic vanity, believe that they can make the world a better place and want the power to do so. If they were actually serious about that goal they would self-euthanase en masse instead. That would definitely make the world a better place.

  381. Tom R permalink
    August 15, 2016 3:23 pm

    That would definitely make the world a better place.

    Lead from the front splatts 🙂

  382. August 15, 2016 3:24 pm

    For Neil…

    http://www.mywordwizard.com/apology-poems.html

    Don’t say I don’t try to help.

  383. August 15, 2016 3:25 pm

    “”That would definitely make the world a better place.””

    What would make the world a better place is if everyone just agreed with me.

    Simples.

  384. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2016 3:33 pm

    Lead from the front splatts 🙂

    Probably designing a bio-bomb just for “lefties” … whoever they are …

    One World Government? GMAFB … the one Federal Govt. we have is fkn bad enough … still robbing from the poor … age pension deeming rates at 3% and the banks hand out 2% to 1.8% … (deeming rates determine the amount of pension a person is eligible for …)

    This sort of buffoonery hurts those on some of lowest income in the country … do the tories care – nah … they think they are saving money. Fuckwits a pox on all the political parties …

    Just link it to the fkn RBA rate …

  385. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2016 3:34 pm

    Simples.

    I think you meant, “shimples” … ~(8-D)

  386. Tom R permalink
    August 15, 2016 4:03 pm

    What would make the world a better place is if everyone just agreed with me.

    I AGREE!

  387. TB Queensland permalink
    August 15, 2016 5:43 pm

    I AGREE!

    Toady leftie!

    “self euthanise” ? FMD!

    I see its gone silly on the other fred … must have a look!

  388. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2016 9:02 pm

    Why do lefties want One World Govt?

    Why do wingnuts want one world trade?

  389. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 15, 2016 11:00 pm

    Equality

  390. Grundnorm(s) permalink
    August 16, 2016 4:16 am

    (S(h)imples.

    Whereas the rule of man has a strong initial appeal, especially in its en masse form, mob rule, sometimes there’s something to be said for the rule of law; possibly even by those who sometimes like to claim to be conserving all the little, hard-won niceties of Western-valued, liberal democracy…when it suits?)

  391. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 16, 2016 6:57 am

    I hope lleyonhelm doesn’t get to tap into public funding for his frivolous ‘privileged white male victim’ HRC court case.
    For someone who tells all and sundry that no-one should ever be offended, it’s just a choice and that 18C must be struck down, he seems to spend most of his time being angrily offended by what others say.

    Federal election 2016: David Leyonhjelm’s free speech hypocrisy
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/federal-election-2016-david-leyonhjelms-free-speech-hypocrisy/news-story/862eaf8354a3ca2b8d5be738c55fa194

    …Senator Leyonhjelm believes that: “We should be able to say what we think without getting into strife because somebody got offended.”

    Of Wicked Campers in particularly, he’s said: “You’d need to be a particularly wowserish person not to find it funny.”

    So the Chaser went and got a van, covered it with filthy slogans about Senator Leyonhjelm, and parked it outside his house.

    The slogans read things like: “The best thing about oral sex from David Leyonhjelm? Five minutes of silence.”

    And did he find it funny?

    Actually no.

    The skit, which went to air last night as part of the Chaser’s Election Desk, showed the good senator coming home on his bike, looking absolutely furious. His head goes completely scarlet.

    He uses the F-word.

    He’s since been up all night, tweeting stuff about how his wife was “terrified” and “frightened to death” by the “harassment outside my house.”…

  392. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 16, 2016 7:44 am

    Why Ridiculously Stupid White Man David Leyonhjelm Will Lose His 18c Racial Discrimination Case
    https://newmatilda.com/2016/08/16/why-ridiculously-stupid-white-man-david-leyonhjelm-will-lose-his-18c-racial-discrimination-case/

    …The work of the AHRC is extremely important. It has labored under funding cuts by the Coalition, and yet despite this, has still delivered crucial work, such as its inquiry into abuse in immigration detention.

    And yet, despite the pressure on the Commission, an elected parliamentary representative appears to have tried to spark a government inquiry purely for sh*ts and giggles.

    …So what do we do? Can taxpayers invoice Leyonhjelm for the cost of his stunt?

    Sadly, no. But the AHRC does have the right to summarily dismiss a complaint if it finds there is no case to answer…

    How the Commission proceeds in the face of this stupidity is a matter of pure speculation, but it’s seems pretty clear Leyonhjelm is seeking to waste the resources of a public institution purely for his own self-aggrandisement…

    …Once the AHRC deals with the matter – and obviously it will never find in Leyonhjelm’s favour – then that triggers a series of ‘remedies’ available to the good Senator, the most notable of which is that he has the right to proceed to the Federal Court to prosecute his argument… and Mark Kenny and Fairfax.

    A Federal Court, I imagine, would take quite a dim view of anyone, let alone a parliamentarian, pursuing frivolous litigation.

    But pursue it Senator David Leyonhjelm should, particularly if he expects to be taken seriously as a man of conviction. In other words, Leyonhjelm should put his money where his considerably large mouth (and ego is), and go all the way.

    Ridiculously stupid white man notwithstanding, my bet is that he’s probably not that stupid…

    18C won’t stop mature debate on race. But small mindedness and arrogance might
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/15/18c-wont-stop-mature-debate-on-race-but-small-mindedness-and-arrogance-might

  393. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2016 9:55 am

    Here is a statement that the Rapist’s Wife had on her web page earlier this year:

    “I want to send a message to every survivor of sexual assault: Don’t let anyone silence your voice. You have the right to be heard. You have the right to be believed, and we’re with you.”

    It has since disappeared.

    Obviously Hillary did not intend this to apply to women Bill had raped. In fact she has vilified those women rather than supported them.

    Once again Hillary has demonstrated her complete lack of integrity. The feminists and lefties who support her have a similar level of integrity.

  394. 2010 SO16 permalink
    August 16, 2016 9:57 am

    (To my mind, all 18C does is ask us to think a little bit before plunging into print. It doesn’t tell us not to use satire, to take the piss out of a subject, or even be confronting; it just reminds us that freedom of speech is a right that also carries with it a degree of responsibility.

    It should not, as Attorney-General George Brandis said, bestow “the right to be a bigot”.

    What gets lost amid some of the hyperventilating about free speech, “thought police” and the good old political correctness bogeyman is that Section 18C is just one clause of a 48-page piece of legislation.

    In fact, Section 18D gives those who want to push the envelope on matters of race, religion and ethnicity a range of exemptions….

    ———————

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cp7tfz6VUAA6q6Z.jpg:large

    ———————

    ….It is also instructive to look at just who some of the loudest proponents for the repeal of 18C are. Hint: you’ll usually find them on the far right of the political spectrum.)

  395. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2016 10:49 am

    I am reading Engelfield’s “Critique of Pure Verbiage”. With disingenuous platitudes like “freedom of speech is a right that also carries with it a degree of responsibility” your cunty cant would be right at home in that volume with some of the other specimens of vague and deceptive usage.

    A the moment a couple of QUT students have been put through an ordeal that has so far lasted two years for complaining about the racist conduct of a mongrel admin officer.

    Under this vile legislation the process is the punishment no matter what the outcome. It should be replaced by a US style guarantee of the right to free speech.

  396. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2016 11:00 am

    Remember Wally telling us all “its the market dickwits” … read on …

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/costs/aussies-pay-65pc-more-for-our-gas-than-japan/news-story/946a61f218534bdd9e218232a63fcb03

  397. Tom R permalink
    August 16, 2016 11:04 am

    In fact, Section 18D gives those who want to push the envelope on matters of race, religion and ethnicity a range of exemptions….

    And bolt failed them all lol.

    Even taking into account his ‘hyperbole’ 😉

  398. August 16, 2016 11:07 am

    “It is also instructive to look at just who some of the loudest proponents for the repeal of 18C are. Hint: you’ll usually find them on the far right of the political spectrum.”

    Guess which side of the political spectrum the author identifies with.

  399. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2016 11:14 am

    A the moment a couple of QUT students have been put through an ordeal that has so far lasted two years for complaining about the racist conduct of a mongrel admin officer.

    I tend to agree from what I know of this case … it seems to be a frivolous attempt to gain monetary advantage to me as well …

    By discussing it are we risking a lawsuit as co-respondents! ~(8-(

  400. Tom R permalink
    August 16, 2016 11:30 am

    Guess which side of the political spectrum the author identifies with.

    Is it the one who goes “look at his beliefs, so we can ignore his arguments”?

    it seems to be

    So many things can be made to look like so many things unless you are witness to all of the case.

    Which is why I HATE the running dialogue of court cases, with names and pictures all splashed across our screens, as the ‘investigative journalist’ highlights the selected segments of the case that will titillate their audience, and then have the nerve to ask them their opinion of guilt (or sometimes not)

    Who needs Judge and Jury when we have television voting to decide. (Except of course for when they pick some bloody brown skinned dude for a logie or such)

  401. August 16, 2016 11:40 am

    ‘Is it the one who goes “look at his beliefs, so we can ignore his arguments”?’

    Seems that way.

    “It is also instructive to look at just who some of the loudest proponents for the repeal of 18C are. Hint: you’ll usually find them on the far right of the political spectrum.”

    In a nutshell: They’re on the far-right, so you can ignore their arguments.

  402. Silly, Ordeals permalink
    August 16, 2016 12:01 pm

    (It should be replaced by a US style guarantee of the right to free speech.

    Maybe it should; then again, maybe quasi-government instrumentalities in Australia should provide safe and supportive workplaces for employees (otherwise) diligently going about their official duties; and maybe a couple of students should have thought twice about collaterally harassing, and apparently inciting others to so do, such an employee via negative public communications, rather than simply pursuing whatever grievance they thought they may or may not have had via an established complaints procedure no doubt freely available to them at the university at the time; which is to say, or so the argument might run: the Oodgeroo Unit is clearly signed, and clearly and purposively undersigned by the university, it’s clearly flagged to all staff and incoming students as an (un)available resource, no-one finds themself there by accident, nor do they find themself at a ‘QUT Stalker’ Facebook page by accident, and the rest almost speaks for itself.)

  403. August 16, 2016 12:09 pm

    ‘SWIMMING Australia’s hierarchy, including president John Bertrand, must step down from the helm of Australia’s $38 million swim team, says former Australian head coach Bill Sweetenham.’

    ‘A question: With no government funding going toward its Olympic efforts, how has the U.S. performed better than everybody else over the last several decades?’

  404. August 16, 2016 12:34 pm

    A cheeky squirrel in Montreal, Canada, recently discovered a GoPro on the ground and took it to film life from a squirrel’s perspective up in a tree. It turned out to be a fantastic POV for the viewer, as we’re treated to a ‘day in the life’ style adventure.

    Via: YouTube/Viva Frei

  405. Tom R permalink
    August 16, 2016 12:45 pm

    In a nutshell: “Guess which side of the political spectrum the author identifies with.” so you can ignore their arguments.

    A game the whole political spectrum can play

  406. Tom R permalink
    August 16, 2016 12:50 pm

    Maybe it should; t

    Now we know why bolt never made the move to ‘merica. There is nothing in there about being about to bullshit facts to people and get away with it because of ‘hyperbole’

    nanny states of ‘merica!

  407. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2016 1:39 pm

    “and the rest almost speaks for itself.”

    It speaks to a certain totalitarian mindset.

  408. Tom R permalink
    August 16, 2016 1:56 pm

    It speaks to a certain totalitarian mindset.

    As totalitarian as having a meeting about womens issues in a mens only club?

    Interesting how one room can make such an impact, especially considering, had the usual occupants of said room decided to go to another room, they could have sat and enjoyed their classmates mirth as said mates perused bill leaks latest hilarities.

  409. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2016 2:31 pm

    Thanks for the squirrel vid, ToSY … three minutes to read, watch, write a reply … one thing that is irretrievable is time … fknin’ ‘ell!

  410. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2016 2:59 pm

    Oh, the horror, the horror of it all Tom R.

  411. August 16, 2016 3:15 pm

    That’s not a squirrel video, it’s a look-over-there.

    And so is this:

    Is This Love (remix) – Bob Marley Feat. LVNDSCAPE + Bolier.

  412. Tom R permalink
    August 16, 2016 3:48 pm

    Oh, the horror, the horror of it all

    Words of whizzdomme from an #AngryWhiteMale

  413. August 16, 2016 4:03 pm

    Splatterbottom is “an #AngryWhiteMale”, therefore you can dismiss his arguments.

    This is fun! 😀

  414. Tom R permalink
    August 16, 2016 4:28 pm

    This is fun!

    And easy

    Although, to be ‘pedantic’, I wasn’t dismissing them, I was ridiculing them.

    Perhaps you just saw that as dismissive, being, you know, of the ‘dismissives’ (over there) 😉

  415. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 16, 2016 5:05 pm

    “This is fun!

    And easy”

    Masturbation is like that to an experienced practitioner like yourself, Tom R. Truly you are a master of that trade.

  416. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2016 6:48 pm

    sb, has becoming absolutely boring … in so many ways … poo, bum, willie … FFS!

    Get over your self-esteem issues …

    I had hoped it could contribute intelligent conversation … anyone can muster basic insults …

  417. Tom R permalink
    August 16, 2016 6:51 pm

    Masturbation is like that

    Sounds like the voice of experience to me 😉

    anyone can muster basic insults …

    It’s all so dismissive!

    Speaking of dismissive, I note nobody cared about yer link earlier TB

    It can cost more to fire up gas in a home here — about 65 per cent more — than in a Japanese residence that uses Australian gas, according to a survey by the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/costs/aussies-pay-65pc-more-for-our-gas-than-japan/news-story/946a61f218534bdd9e218232a63fcb03

    I wonder why that is? The Wind got their tongue perhaps?

  418. TB Queensland permalink
    August 16, 2016 8:52 pm

    Speaking of dismissive, I note nobody cared about yer link earlier TB

    Yep, TR, and its not the first … squeaky wheels, methinks …

    At least ToSY admitted to more “look over there’s” in a genuine attempt at sarc … I believe …

  419. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 16, 2016 10:32 pm

    A question: With no government funding going toward its Olympic efforts, how has the U.S. performed better than everybody else over the last several decades?

    drugs?

    In a nutshell: They’re on the far-right, so you can ignore their arguments.

    Hardly. I wish we could. Their arguments are megaphoned through every media outlet in the land, the far right command more media attention than their fact free opinions and propaganda warrant. Even the ABC has to accommodate the far right spouting their ignorant, uneducated gibberish as if it had credibility eg last night’s qanda and the gaping stupidity of malcolm roberts’ climate denial. I can’t believe ‘the pause’ and ‘global scientific conspiracy’ is still getting a run!

  420. Tom R permalink
    August 17, 2016 7:43 am

    fact free opinions and propaganda warrant.

    Which really makes you want to question, was the censusfail a fail?

    The libs seem intent on removing as many ‘facts’ from public debate as possible. They fill the airwaves with bullshit, witness greghunt on qanda, overshadowed by the quite insane roberts, but his pronouncements on staffing levels at CSIRO were just out and out lies.

    eg

    TONY JONES: Can I just get the figures here because 275 CSIRO scientists were sacked.

    LINDA BURNEY: That’s right.

    TONY JONES: How many did you re-employ as part of this bringing them up to an extra 15%.

    GREG HUNT: Again, your starting point is wrong. What’s happening is that CSIRO staff numbers are increasing by well over 200 over the next three years.

    http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s4499754.htm

    So, in future, we will have no transcript of that show to highlight what he said like above. Couple this with the way malcaymman pressured the abc not to run factual articles on his handling of the NBN (and who knows what other stories were hobbled). In addition, we have lost an accurate assessment of the actual unemployment figures due to ABS cuts, along with who knows how many other data sets, and now we don’t even have an accurate census to help formulate need based policy into the future.

    Which really reflects the libs fact free agenda quite succinctly.

    So, is it a fail, or a design feature?

  421. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 17, 2016 11:12 am

    More boats being stopped 😉

  422. August 17, 2016 2:37 pm

    Best protest of the year Award goes to:

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  423. Tom R permalink
    August 17, 2016 3:21 pm

  424. TB Queensland permalink
    August 17, 2016 3:55 pm

    Protester yells obscenities, storms stage, forcing @TurnbullMalcolm to stop speech

    I hope MALfunction apologised for waffling …

    Goodonya, Travis, (whomever you are!)

  425. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 17, 2016 4:19 pm

    Best protest of the year Award goes to:

    It was the ALP who opened the camps that lady is talking about. There were only 6 boat people in detention before the ALP abolished the Pacific Solution in 2008.

  426. August 17, 2016 5:55 pm

    squirter,,,,,freedom of speech is a right that also carries with it a degree of responsibility,,,,,

    # ,, under our legal system, those claiming they have a `right` (of any kind) also have a `responsibility` when they `use` or `claim` that right, its not `just` with the `free-hate-speech` right, but `any` right claimed in any part or aspect of our system, hit the law-books splatts

  427. August 17, 2016 6:07 pm

    for Neil…

  428. August 17, 2016 6:10 pm

    team-cheerer,,,,,,I note nobody cared about yer link earlier TB

    It can cost more to fire up gas in a home here , about 65 per cent more , than in a Japanese residence that uses Australian gas,,,,,,

    # ,, l kicked this topic off a few weeks ago and had our teabags on the run, they can`t go near this teabag-fail of, aussies not being able to buy their own stuff at the same (or-better) price than foreign-lands do. #total.teabag.fail #total.free.trade.fail

  429. August 17, 2016 6:52 pm

    team-cheerer,,,,,,accurate assessment of the actual unemployment figures due to ABS,,,,,

    ,,,,,fact free agenda,,,,,

    # ,, its not the `cuts` team-cheerer, (tho they won`t help either) it IS the DUD international Labor-org`s dud index/formula, and is totally useless

    # ,, the `under`employed are now MORE than un-employed, any so-called `index` that does not include `both` demographics is pure bullshit, yet both teams `choose` to keep the dud index

    # ,, unfortunately the public is being swamped by both teams with dud-data, take for example joolya`s carbon-tax and the rocketing gas-price, they both could have the same `effect`, of pushing poorer-folk off `gas/electric` heating and returning to `pot-belly` and fire-place heating. Live in a colder part of canoeland???? Know any plumbers???? Bet they are installing more flues and pot-belly heaters now-a-days.

  430. TB Queensland permalink
    August 17, 2016 7:00 pm

    for Neil…

    I don’t think it will work, sreb … I’m convinced neel is a LNP bot …

  431. Tom R permalink
    August 17, 2016 9:20 pm

    I’m convinced neel is a LNP bot …

    I think that’s a given TB.

    The real question we need to know the answer to though is, does the bot sit, or squat?

  432. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2016 9:16 am

    Man up and apologise neil.

    It was the ALP who opened the camps that lady is talking about. There were only 6 boat people in detention before the ALP abolished the Pacific Solution in 2008.

    Perhaps things would have been different altogether if the libs had not destroyed genuine co-operative efforts by all with the expert led and internationally approved malaysian solution.

    Remember it was the ALP that came up with the malaysian solution that abbott & co blocked. They didn’t want a solution, they wanted the deaths at sea, even as they pretended [still do] to cry over them, it was good for their fearmongering politics. Now abbott is in the media saying that he should have agreed to it and not been so hyperpartisan.
    Fine words aren’t they when it’s all done and dusted and he’s out in the back seat boondocks reflecting on his take no prisoners, hyper macho-aggro-sexist, guerilla warfare against the gillard mob and his own downfall.

    Now the boot is on the other foot and they’re worried about staying in govt, citizen dissent and the evidence now mounting about the australian stasi, the jackbooted, brutal, inhumane treatment of our own disadvantaged citizens and vulnerable migrant people in our youth detention offshore gulags.

    Other nations are speaking out and condemning australia for their shameful racism and national brutality, how embarassing, we’re on a par with apartheid sth africa and the other despots of the world.

  433. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2016 9:33 am

    How australia does business.

    Cartels, monopolies, bribery, rent seeking and political lobbying.

  434. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 18, 2016 10:28 am

    What is ever done about australian consumers being held hostage to the rapacious greed and avarice of the cartels? The consumers who used to own the business collectively as taxpayers and never gave permission for them to be sold off for private profiteering and insider trading by politicians.

    Energy companies withholding supply to blame for July price spike, report finds
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/17/energy-companies-withholding-supply-to-blame-for-july-price-spike-report-finds

    Electricity price spikes caused by energy companies ‘gaming’ the system, report finds
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/11/electricity-price-spikes-caused-by-energy-companies-gaming-the-system-report-finds

  435. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 10:37 am

    Now abbott is in the media saying that he should have agreed to it and not been so hyperpartisan.

    I cannot believe how reprehensible that is. To basically allow people to continue drowning, to KNOWINGLY stop an attempt at stopping those drowning for PURELY POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY.

    And for our media to just look at that statement and go ‘meh, that’s just our abbott, isn’t he entertaining’

    He has basically admitted that he was happy to see more people drown, as long as he could continue to blame the Labor party.

    I said at the time it was nothing but purely political bastardry. He’s now admitted it.

    And our CPG don’t give a rats.

    Which is why they/he is allowed to get away with it.

  436. August 18, 2016 10:41 am

    “how embarassing, we’re on a par with apartheid sth africa and the other despots of the world”

    As much as certain people might wish that were true, we don’t even even come close.

  437. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 10:41 am

    Electricity price spikes caused by energy companies ‘gaming’ the system, report finds

    The Wind has been “Dismissed” for now I think ao 😉

  438. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 10:45 am

    As much as certain people might wish that were true, we don’t even even come close.

    YAAAY

    Other people were worst than we are now

  439. August 18, 2016 10:48 am

    I think you mean worse.

  440. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 18, 2016 11:00 am

    “How australia does business.”

    The fastest growing industry is victim-pimping. Mongrel Triggs and her fellow finger-waggers are making off like bandits on the basis of people choosing to act like their feelings are hurt. Their fame and fortune depend on the amount of business they can drum up and the outrageous compensation they can get for their “victims”. The more compensation this week, the more victims coming out of the woodwork next week.

    No surprise that Mongrel Soutphommasane was out touting for business in the form of complaints against Bill Leak.

    So the key to getting ahead in Australia now is to find a victim class you can join, get offended and claim the dosh with the help of highly paid professional enablers. If you are really ambitious you might aspire to becoming an enabler.

    Working in private enterprise or small business is for losers. You didn’t make that money – society did. There is an army of leftists to slag you off and steal your money. The poor stupid fuckers seem not to realise that every cent they spend comes from business. And all they can do is spit bile at the most useful sector of society – the one that pays for everything. What miserable fuckers these lefty arseholes are – all day every day they are peddling their grievances. They need to get a fucking life outside seething hatred for the dreaded class enemy. Actually, Australia now is as good a time to be alive as any in human history although it will go down hill rapidly if the leftist moonbats get their way.

  441. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 11:00 am

    I think you mean worse.

    YAAAY

    sum peeps thinks spelin is most importaint than are brutality.

    Speeks volyumes

  442. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 11:02 am

    The fastest growing industry is victim-pimping.

    You mean like all those ones on qanda?

    So the key to getting ahead in Australia now is to find a victim class you can join

    Yea, like the Gas industry 😉

  443. August 18, 2016 11:07 am

    Some people think their ridiculous hyperbole will go unchallenged.

  444. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 11:21 am

    Some people think their ridiculous hyperbole will go unchallenged.

    You mean like this tosser?

    “The ABC reporting on The Guardian’s reports, who report on ABC reports do not help people in these centres,” Mr Dutton told AM.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-18/dutton-slams-abc-guardian-for-asylum-seeker-png-coverage/7761854

  445. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 18, 2016 11:23 am

    Perhaps things would have been different altogether if the libs had not destroyed genuine co-operative efforts by all with the expert led and internationally approved malaysian solution.

    The Greens voted against it also. And the High Court ruled it invalid so it never would have got off the ground. It was an abomination of a policy that never would have worked. Part of the so-called Malaysian solution was to drag people screaming onto the flight to Malaysia and film the screams and show the world what happens.

    I cannot believe how reprehensible that is. To basically allow people to continue drowning

    What Abbott said was perhaps govts should be allowed to govern even if the policy sucks.

    to KNOWINGLY stop an attempt at stopping those drowning for PURELY POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY.

    TomR i have yet to see you apologise for abolishing the Pacific Solution. The drownings continued until Abbott was elected because Labor was too proud to admit they got it wrong.

    Ever drowning at sea is the responsibility of those who voted for Rudd in 2007.

  446. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 11:29 am

    The Greens voted against it also.

    The Greens at least voted in line with their policy platform, unlike the libs.

    Abbotts words now confirm this.

  447. August 18, 2016 11:32 am

    A racist, obviously:

    Trump is right about radical Islam

  448. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 18, 2016 11:41 am

    Abbotts words now confirm this.

    What did Abbott actually say? From what i have seen he said elected govts should be allowed to pass their policies even if they are an abomination.

    What i have not seen is the ALP apologising for one of the biggest disasters in Australian history. The ALP never admitted they were wrong, they never went back to what worked under Howard but spent all their time trying things rather than what worked before.

    Every death,drowning, rape, sexual abuse and every other atrocity that happened in the ALP camps is the responsibility of TB of Queensland, TomR, Reb, Toilet and every other deadbeat who voted for Rudd in 2007.

  449. August 18, 2016 11:41 am

    I don’t watch Ellen because she’s unfunny and annoying, but this is ludicrous.

  450. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 18, 2016 12:01 pm

    “I don’t watch Ellen because she’s unfunny and annoying”

    So she’s a leftist then? Or Neil of Sydney if you add stupid into the mix!

  451. August 18, 2016 12:16 pm

    “So she’s a leftist then?”

    That’s pretty much a prerequisite in Hollywood, so yes, most likely.

  452. Leftist Donkey Riding permalink
    August 18, 2016 12:27 pm

    (They finish by saying their “primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace The One True (Un)Freedom. Even if you were to play (Anti)Locution Games and live under the Righteous authority of The Righteous in Zombie humiliation, we would continue to hate you.”

    Not all Demagogues/Racialists/Chauvinists/Homophobes/Nutjobs/Mass Debaters believe these radical things. But a certain number do. We provided all of those numbers, with sources, in our film Squirreling By The Numbers.)

  453. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 12:50 pm

    That’s pretty much a prerequisite in Hollywood

    Schwarzenegger and Eastwood are in furious agreement there!

    (to name but two inconsequentials) 😉

    What did Abbott actually say?

    WTTE that if they weren’t playing such base partisan politics, then they would have voted with the Government of the day

  454. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 18, 2016 12:52 pm

    WTTE that if they weren’t playing such base partisan politics, then they would have voted with the Government of the day

    Did he? I have only heard about what he may have said. By the way the ALP blocked Hockeys first budget . What about them partisan politics?

  455. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 1:07 pm

    By the way the ALP blocked Hockeys first budget

    They blocked them on policy grounds.

    The libs don’t have an issue with pushing people back to see, or dumping them on any hell hole. What policy reason can they have for their refusal for Malaysia?

  456. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 18, 2016 1:24 pm

    What policy reason can they have for their refusal for Malaysia?

    Because it was immoral and would not have worked and was eventually found to be illegal by the High Court.

    From what i have read all Abbott said was that elected govts should be allowed to govern no matter how bad their policies.

    The main immorality is the ALP have never admitted they were wrong, never went back to what worked and have never apologised for the atrocities in the ALP detention camps which they created.

  457. Impersonal Irresponsibility permalink
    August 18, 2016 1:44 pm

    (The ALP never admitted they were wrong, they never went back to what worked under Howard but spent all their time trying things rather than what worked before.

    True; it was very, very wrong of the ALP to pursue John *swoon* Howard’s Bali Process; and very right of Abbott to trash Howard’s near-forgotten legacy in architecting it; and very, very right of Abbott to frustrate any Australian leadership attempt at progressing a more-comprehensive, more-enduring regional solution to an otherwise-(under?)acknowledged broader problem of a globe and a region awash with unsettled and unsettling refugees; just so he could be in a more advantageous position to reresurrect a notoriously successful Pacific Solution of Anywhere-But-Here and Guano Island as his real-time contribution to more-Jakarta-than-Geneva diplomacies; and, now, here we are, with Abbott waxing revisionary about his waned fortunes and utterly inoffensive conduct from the backbench; beginning with his (un)capitulation on amending s.18C, on the premise that the best defence of Team Abbott is to be had in an eternal return to scapegoating others for one’s own persecution complex, and in giving a good offence to nominal internal and external frenemies of a crumbling Broad Church.)

  458. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 2:31 pm

    Because it was immoral and would not have worked and was eventually found to be illegal by the High Court.

    You mean just like the Pacific Solution would have if they had allowed it to go there.

    But, that’s not a policy reason, is it.

  459. August 18, 2016 2:40 pm

    (Never has there been a more exciting time for internal frenemies of a crumbling broad church willing to save the persecution complex.)

  460. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 18, 2016 2:47 pm

    This is what Abbott said

    http://tonyabbott.com.au/2016/08/transcript-of-the-hon-tony-abbott-mp-address-to-the-samuel-griffith-society-stamford-plaza-hotel-adelaide/

    I wonder, though, about the former government’s people swap with Malaysia.

    The 800 boat people that could have been sent to Malaysia was less than a months’ intake, even then.

    I doubt it would have worked.

    Still, letting it stand would have been an acknowledgment of the government-of-the-day’s mandate to do the best it could, by its own lights, to meet our nation’s challenges.

    It would have been a step back from the hyper-partisanship that now poisons our public life.

    I take that as saying elected govts should be allowed to govern no matter how bad their policies are.

  461. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 3:02 pm

    I take that as saying elected govts should be allowed to govern no matter how bad their policies are.

    Concentrate on the “hyper-partisanship” section, and reflect on where and when that kind of politicking started, and more importantly, by whom.

  462. August 18, 2016 3:03 pm

    armchair,,,,,They didn`t want a solution, they wanted the deaths at sea,,,,,

    # ,, but that`s the `stickler` isn`t it???? And delusion, lie and idiocy. And the team fell for it, so did teabag-media. None of them give a flying fcuk about the boaties, surely if they did, they wouldn`t have goose-stepped along into iraq to create more boaties (plus syria, turkey spill-over) in the first place. So they stop the boaties getting here, big deal, they end-up flee-ing still. All that will happen is our treasury will keep burning mountains of cash on gulags, while at the same time increasing the likely-hood of turkey (or-other) collapsing and expanding the mess (eg-syria) and number of boaties.

  463. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 18, 2016 3:35 pm

    Concentrate on the “hyper-partisanship” section, and reflect on where and when that kind of politicking started, and more importantly, by whom.

    Too funny. I do not recall the ALP giving much support to the Howard govt. Remember the GST and rollback?

  464. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 4:35 pm

    I do not recall the ALP giving much support to the Howard govt.

    There’s a difference between opposing viewpoints, and what abbott did

    Just see pyne whyning now about ‘pairs’ as a small taste of what yabots opposition did

  465. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 4:48 pm

    Even scum morrison doesn’t want to be reminded of how petty and spiteful politics was when they were in opposition.

    Scott Morrison has blamed Tony Abbott for the now infamous decision to block attempts by the previous Labor government to stop people smuggling, saying he was just following orders.

    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/scott-morrison-hangs-tony-abbott-out-to-dry-over-over-malaysia-plan-20160817-gqv702

  466. August 18, 2016 5:05 pm

    “[W]riting is an instrument for conveying ideas from one mind to another; the writer’s job is to make his reader apprehend his meaning readily and precisely.”

  467. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 18, 2016 5:36 pm

    Tom R – you started it!!!

    NOS – No. You did!!

    Tom R – did not!

    Etc

  468. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 5:43 pm

    Huh!

  469. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 5:59 pm

    Lol that huh was meant for tosy, but works well with yomms too

    It also appears that yomm doesn’t care that the libs were happy for deaths to continue at sea for purely political purposes

  470. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 18, 2016 6:28 pm

    I was referring to –
    Just see pyne whyning now about ‘pairs’ as a small taste of what yabots opposition did

  471. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 18, 2016 6:31 pm

    There’s a difference between opposing viewpoints, and what abbott did

    What? Abbott thought the Malaysian would not have worked. And he was right. We give them 800 and they give us 4,000. What happens when the next 800 turn up? Well we get another 4,000.

    What Abbott did say is perhaps they should let the govt govern rather than oppose bad policy. You have twisted his words to say something different.

  472. August 18, 2016 6:34 pm

    As far as [w]riting goes, too often it is just [r]ighting that has no hope of ,,,,,conveying ideas from one mind to another,,,,, as these ,,,writer`s`job,,, is to NOT convey anything meaningful or factual, but instead is ,,,,an instrument for conveying,,,, nonsense to inflict confusion and delay.

  473. August 18, 2016 7:26 pm

    Reports of my demise are greatly exaggerated.

  474. Tom R permalink
    August 18, 2016 9:24 pm

    I was referring to –

    were not!

  475. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 9:32 am

    What? Abbott thought the Malaysian would not have worked.

    So Abbott, the knucklehead who had the worst political instincts of all our leaders, who had to be stopped by his own party, knew better than an expert panel of people who knew what was going on, who thoroughly researched the issue and consulted with other governments to come up with an acceptable solution?

    Abbott did not want a solution, he wanted deaths at sea for his own political benefit.

    What Abbott did say is perhaps they should let the govt govern rather than oppose bad policy.

    Something he did not allow for the gillard govt, he threw parliamentary protocols, procedures and the rulebook out the window and instigated a full on military assault against the labor govt,a take no prisoners approach. All that was left to do was throw a grenade into the middle of the place. By the time of the next election, even the voters were shellshocked, traumatised and numbed by what he had done to our parliament and the government.
    That was your abbott.

  476. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 9:37 am

    …After Turnbull was heckled by a handful of protesters during his Wednesday CEDA speech, he asked the police for a report and CEDA to explain how the disruptors got into the room. He should also have put a few questions to Dutton.

    Such as these. Why, with no boats arriving for a long time, do we still have this offshore issue? Why are we perpetuating it, allowing people to be treated inhumanely and Australia to be internationally embarrassed? Why can’t this government juggle deterrence and resettlement in Australia, as the Howard government finally was forced to do?…

    …Dutton likes to emphasise how it was Labor that re-established the offshore centres. That’s true, but if Labor hadn’t done so, the Coalition government would have. The Abbott opposition endlessly pressed the point….

  477. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 9:56 am

    Australia’s rich give little – and a culture of secrecy surrounds their philanthropy
    https://theconversation.com/australias-rich-give-little-and-a-culture-of-secrecy-surrounds-their-philanthropy-63879

    …Foundations (known as private ancillary funds, or PAFs) are the main vehicles for philanthropy in modern Australia. PAFs are private funds established for public purposes and government policy provides significant tax concessions. In 2008, Treasury estimated that 45 cents in every philanthropic dollar came from the public purse…

    …The secret cache of funds

    Australian budget papers show the tax benefits PAFs received between 2001 and 2009 totalled $935.468 million. This is more than double the amount they returned to the community in grants ($461.77 million).

    It is therefore vitally important for the community to know if PAFs fulfil their philanthropic obligation.

    Australian PAFs share three characteristics with their counterpart foundations in the US. They:

    exist in perpetuity;
    have their own capital fund; and
    their trustee boards are self-selected.

    But one major difference is Australian PAFs do not have the same public accountability requirements.

    In 2008, Treasury reviewed these funds’ operations. One of the changes it wanted was to make contact details available to the charities and NGOs for whom these foundations were established.

    Presumably because of lobbying by influential philanthropists, attempts to introduce this minimum form of public accountability were soundly defeated and ultimately not implemented.

    Treasury rarely if ever loses – but in this case it did.

    …A tax-minimisation strategy?…

    .

  478. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 10:41 am

    A link dump of very good reading for you

    Thoughtful comments by readers too.

    enjoy 😉

    Why Liberalism is Losing Its Way
    https://theconversation.com/why-liberalism-is-losing-its-way-11461

    Whither anarchy: perspectives on anarchism and liberty
    https://theconversation.com/whither-anarchy-perspectives-on-anarchism-and-liberty-59979

    Whither anarchy: freedom as non-domination
    https://theconversation.com/whither-anarchy-freedom-as-non-domination-60776

    What is anarchism all about?
    https://theconversation.com/what-is-anarchism-all-about-50373

  479. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 19, 2016 11:15 am

    This should spice-up year 10 Biology:

    In one classroom activity, students are asked to consider a list of 20 ways of “engaging in sexual pleasure” to determine which ­activities they “think might be okay”. They are then asked to sort each sex act by their level of ­comfort.

    I think I would, as a year 10, go wild at the opportunity presented. I’d certainly try to get a rise out of the teacher, so to speak. From recollection, Year 10s are pretty much omnisexua’. They are quite innovative when it comes to these matters and no doubt could add to the list, especially in respect of household appliances, furniture and pets. For example, wanking in the lounge room while chatting to your blind grandmother always adds a bit of frisson to the experience.

  480. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 11:45 am

    Scott Morrison hangs Tony Abbott out to dry over over Malaysia Plan
    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/scott-morrison-hangs-tony-abbott-out-to-dry-over-over-malaysia-plan-20160817-gqv702#ixzz4HjlAPUlF

  481. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 19, 2016 11:52 am

    Lee Rhiannon from the Stalinist wing of the Greens. What a joke that mongrel is. She exemplifies the strength of the old Soviet-style hacks in the Greens.

  482. Neil of Sydney permalink
    August 19, 2016 11:57 am

    So Abbott, the knucklehead who had the worst political instincts of all our leaders, who had to be stopped by his own party, knew better than an expert panel of people who knew what was going on

    In case you have forgotten your heroes The Greens also voted against the so-called Malaysian Solution and it was ruled illegal by the High Court. Abbott raises an interesting question. Should the govt be allowed to govern or does an Opposition vote against an abomination of a policy which the Malaysian Policy was?

    Anyway Abbott showed boats could be stopped. He did it within a few months of coming to power.

    You lot should be apologising for starting the boats by voting for Rudd

  483. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 12:00 pm

    …“Sexism is more socially acceptable than racism,” said Jennifer Lawless, of American University. …

    Gillard agrees. “In some ways, I think we put a burden on women in the face of gender attacks that doesn’t necessarily play out in the face of racist attacks,” she told me. Take the episode with the anti-tax protesters, she said: “I have made the point since that, if Australia had an aboriginal Australian prime minister and the opposition leader went and stood in front of signs that said, ‘Sack the black,’ or inserted any of the dreadful words we have for aboriginal Australians, it would have been a career-ending moment. And if an indigenous Australian prime minister had complained about that, I don’t think people would say, ‘Oh, he is just playing the victim.’ But that is what gets said about women who complain about sexism. There is an added kind of layer that women leaders are just supposed to take it on the chin and not complain about it.”

    This is why it is so important for the public to speak out—loudly—against this kind of nonsense in all its forms, said Gillard. Appalled by what she has seen so far in the U.S. presidential election, in July the former prime minister wrote an op-ed in The New York Times calling for the “naming and shaming of any sexism” in the race…

  484. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 19, 2016 12:10 pm

    …“Sexism is more socially acceptable than racism,”

    And hatred of old white males is absolutely de rigueur among the chattering classes.

  485. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 12:10 pm

    Anyway Abbott showed boats could be stopped. He did it within a few months of coming to power.

    And none of us are allowed to know how he stopped them, what methods he used and what has been happening to the people who are in indefinite detention when they have committed no crime.

    No transparency or accountability and giving his border force/immigration employees impunity from law breaking doesn’t sound like he is acting within the normal legal framework.

    There needs to be a check on executive power and it is obvious we don’t have it here in australia. These people purport to be acting in our names and on our behalf.

    Would be great to see them all giving evidence at the Hague.

  486. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 12:30 pm

    And hatred of old white males is absolutely de rigueur among the chattering classes.

    And deservedly so, you forgot angry.

  487. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 2:06 pm

    The defence of free speech is limited for the anti-18C brigade
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/19/the-defence-of-free-speech-is-limited-for-the-anti-18c-brigade?CMP=share_btn_fb

    …Free speech is free speech, say those committed to repealing section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act. Except, perhaps, for when it comes to their personal interests?…

    …Maybe, if we turn to Maxine Beneba Clarke and her book The Hate Race we can get an idea of the sort of speech that is bursting to be free. Here she is wheeling her five month-old baby along the street in Melbourne’s East Bentleigh, when a white ute draws alongside, from which pours the following free speech:

    Go on, fuck off. You make me sick, you fucken black slut. Go drown your kid. You should go drown your fucken kid. Fuck off will you.
    There was more of the same: “Fuck off blackie. Why don’t you just piss off? Bitch. Go the fuck back to where you came from, back to your own fucken country, nigger.”

    Inexplicably, Beneba Clarke chose to take offence at this burst of free expression when, according to libertarian senator David Leyonhjelm, none was given. He told the ABC’s Insiders program on 7 August:

    Free speech is free speech. There’s no qualification to it … If you want to take offence, that’s your choice. You have the choice of choosing another feeling. Offence is always taken, not given…

    …There is also evidence that the anti-18C brigade have only a phoney attachment to the notion of free speech. Here are a few examples of some limited defence of free speech:..

  488. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 19, 2016 2:35 pm

    “And deservedly so, you forgot angry.”

    You mean like Mark the Moron Kenny?

  489. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 19, 2016 3:37 pm

    “I think I’ve just about had enough of all this.”

    DON’T DO IT REB! Aaaaargh!

  490. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2016 5:50 pm

    sb, off his meds again I see … or on something that aren’t his meds … or looking for something (attention) … or finally flipped … or just has diarrhoea (although that seems to be a permanent affliction) …

  491. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2016 6:09 pm

    Check out the pants this homeless bloke is wearing … I wonder …

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/malcolm-turnbull-said-he-felt-sorry-for-the-homeless-man-he-gave-5-to-while-he-was-begging-on-the-street/news-story/8ec03b9a8c34d7325818833d9b788352

    Is this what Australia is becoming? The United States of Artless …

  492. TB Queensland permalink
    August 19, 2016 6:11 pm

    You’ll notice the gravatar I’m sure … broncos “guaranteed” a top eight spot in the finals …

    QUEENSLANDER!

  493. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 19, 2016 11:52 pm

    Check out the pants this homeless bloke is wearing … I wonder …

    Check out malcolm, a big stack of bills in his money clip and he only gave 5 bucks to the man!

  494. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    August 20, 2016 7:06 am

    I find it amazing that anyone would be critical of the $5. It is typical of the meanspirited and partisan barrackers

  495. August 20, 2016 7:52 am

    Yeah! I mean it’s not like he’s doing it for the cameras or anything… 🙄

  496. August 20, 2016 8:00 am

    I give money to beggars only if the swear to spend the money on alcohol.

  497. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2016 8:13 am

    Trickle down economics …

  498. August 20, 2016 9:23 am

    I just handout smack.

  499. Whenever, Wherever, Whatever permalink
    August 20, 2016 11:55 am

    (Colourless, odourless, tasteless, weightless, trace ideas plainly wright themselves.

    —————

    You have twisted his words to say something different.

    I am so very, very sorry.

    —————

    I find it amazing that anyone would be critical of…

    Yeah, under the 3-Ts doctrine of charitability, palming off a fiver abundantly illustrated that time, treasure, and thought can all make a real difference.)

  500. armchair opinionator permalink
    August 20, 2016 1:38 pm

    I find it amazing that anyone would be critical of the $5. It is typical of the meanspirited and partisan barrackers

    I will say one good thing – at least he carries money. most other politicians don’t put their hand in their own pocket for a thing. Food, drinks gifts etc just magically appear before them. Their ‘friends’ keen to donate to them everything that makes life comfortable for themselves, their wives and children. Most political entourages would have walked straight past the man, ignoring him, or crossed the road to avoid the photo..

    Whitesplaining whitesplained
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/19/whitesplaining-whitesplained-by-first-dog-on-the-moon

    Tony Abbott and political shame on Malaysian Solution
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2016/08/20/tony-abbott-and-political-shame-malaysian-solution/14716152003625

  501. Splatterbottom permalink
    August 20, 2016 2:03 pm

    “sb, off his meds again I see … “

    You had to be there, TB.

  502. August 20, 2016 4:35 pm

    “I just handout smack”

    You probably don’t even make a big song and dance about it.

  503. August 20, 2016 4:52 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  504. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2016 6:47 pm

    You had to be there, TB.

    Thank Krist I weren’t! ~(8-(

  505. TB Queensland permalink
    August 20, 2016 6:49 pm

    TurnAbbott & Shorten head to head … I fkn hope so!

  506. August 20, 2016 7:52 pm

    (lt is a fine and vain glorious event that deserves full kudos in the minds of some, when a copper-class squillionaire that gets paid bonuses in the tenz-of-millions and works diligently for the team dedicated to enhancing poverty in the masses at every opportunity, throws down a humble fiver to those en-humbled. Even when it`s too late to buy votes.)

  507. August 21, 2016 10:09 am

    smh,,,,,,,,,,,,In front of a cluster of rainbow balloons and with matching white flowers down one lapel each, family and friends clutching champagne, two young men got married in Melbourne.

    How? Same-sex marriage is not legal yet. The loophole is it is legal in Britain and also recognised here if done on British soil and if one if the couple is British. The venue choices are the British consulate in Collins Street, or the consul-general’s rather nice Toorak house, which is where it happened for Freddy Grant and Burton “Burt” Reynolds, together for eight years after meeting on a Darwin beach, now groom-and-groom,,,,,,

    http://www.smh.com.au/victoria/gay-wedding-at-british-consulate-exploits-legal-loophole-for-samesex-marriage-20160819-gqwyqd.html

    # ,, Ha fcuking Ha teabags, it looks like the boltsville-govt have at least got their head out of their arse on marriage. Time to bleat about firemen now l suppose.

  508. August 21, 2016 10:17 am

    smh,,,,,,,,However a spokesperson for Mr Turnbull told Fairfax Media that Special Minister of State, Scott Ryan, received advice last week from the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) advising the government to push the vote back.

    “The government has always said that a decision on same-sex marriage will be made by a vote of all Australians in a national plebiscite to be held as soon as practicable,” the spokesperson said,,,,,,,,

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/turnbull-government-to-delay-same-sex-plebiscite-until-february–reports-20160820-gqxfzi.html

    # ,, meanwhile in canberra, the zombie-herd are forcing their copper-class teabag-leader into the `all-fours` position over gay-marriage (-:

  509. August 21, 2016 10:43 am

    There will probably be no joy coming out of the bananaland latte-belt when the bitter old pinkist hits this britania reference tho ,,,,,the British consulate in Collins Street,,,,, which is a shame. (-: #dog.save.the.thing

  510. August 21, 2016 12:44 pm

    That`s right teabags. We don`t need universal health of any kind and should continue to follow teh-usa. There will never be a need for it, as certain as there will never be the pinkist`s claims of a `zika` out-break in Florida. We at `Teabags United General Guards Empowering Republican Science` also know that even if the zika mosquito was accidentally brought into Florida, they would remain `contained` in the outer-suburbs of Tallahassee and not spread. Alarmist`s claims of mosquito spread is incorrect, as our studies have shown that cane-toads released around Rockhampton decades ago, have traveled only slightly in the Rockhampton District.

  511. TB Queensland permalink
    August 21, 2016 5:43 pm

    I see we’re being siully again … tbagz … softly, softly, sunshine …

    I notice you noticed … Time to bleat about firemen now l suppose

    Its like a fire out of control … we need some professionals … I’m sick of the fkn amateurs …

  512. Tom R permalink
    August 22, 2016 8:08 am

    re the US not paying their elite athletes. Two sides to every story I guess.

    Paul Crookston made the quite valid point last week that it’s impressive that the U.S. dominates the Summer Olympics (winter, not so much) without the massive sports bureaucracy other countries have. He certainly has a point, but there’s at least one factor, besides our status as the world’s largest wealthy country by far, that complicates the analysis:

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/439170/american-olympic-success-government-free-market

    Of course, per capita, does the US ‘dominate’?

    Go the All Blacks 😉

    http://www.medalspercapita.com

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