Yeah, nah.
September 1, 2016
I could go on, but why bother.
If you wish to keep in touch – connect on twitter: @guttertwits
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BTW after a week or so of reflection, I’d like to thank Walrus and to some extent ToSY for sending me a lesson about some of the worst aspects of humanity.
Being a relatively well off and self professed “lefty” as well as an introvert, I’m seldom exposed to views which contradict my own.
Admittedly I don’t have much time for the many beggars who I see everyday on Melbourne’s streets, but then your sympathy can only extend so far until you become numb to it all.
Unlike others, I don’t mind if I know that my tax is being spent on these folks, and yes I do occasionally think there but for the grace of dog go I.
However I don’t harbour the same level of resentful hatred towards the less fortunate that others here have no qualms about expressing.
Also, in recent days, I’ve witnessed some of the most hateful and vile comments emanating from the RWNJs on this website.
I’ve received emails from more moderate contributors who no longer want to participate here due to the level of aggression and hostility from other participants.
So thanks a lot.
The ppl who show up here simply to vent their anger have won.
I hope you’re satisfied.
Mate, do not let them win …
… the reason we are here is to make a difference …
… I admit to being really pissed off with the attack on me a few weeks ago … and seriously considered pissing off … then I thought of TR, KL, toylet, all the commenters that we’ve had here over the years and the lurkers (thanks Shane) …
… but I came back …
… just give us all … two distasteful comments and yer out!
… we are a tiny voice on the interwebby … but you know yourself that we have been quoted by politicians on both sides of the house(s) … and made a difference …
Comments on The Guardian and Facebook means we are just a blip amongst thousands!
If they close us down … they will just gloat …
I wondered for some time what had changed here … and my conclusion was the vitriol from sb that encouraged ToSY and wally particularly to vent the anger that they have never held back but demonstrated more aggressively than before … a case of – well if he can do it, so can I …
Strangely enough I believe that sb is the real TROLL here … popping in with foul language and comments that are based in religious, political and human extreme hatred but no real meaning … other right wing commenters fell into line …
We lost the common thread of humour, sarc, discussing and learning from each other … until recently wally and I had a great but admittedly odd relationship … where we would ask each for info … that changed …
Speaking of LURKERS … anyone out there who would like to see The Gutter Trash continue … please comment and simply say … YES!
So be it!
just give us all … two distasteful comments and yer out!
Seems to me you’re trying to get yourself banned!
YourYou’re welcome.So be it!
I had hoped you would know the difference between personal attacks and bagging each others cities … seems to some here calling someone a commie c**t is OK … where I come from that’s a big difference …
My two cents.
I had mostly decided on the tactic of ‘planned ignoring’ If it’s deliberately provocative or I think the post is just attention seeking or flaming – I will mostly ignore it. If there is legitimate comment, I will engage.
I prefer to have a debate on the issues, without personal abuse, sexism or even anger really. I think we should be capable of mutual commentary with humour and a shared camaraderie by now. We used to self censor and call out insulting and abusive behaviour but I wonder if the ‘free speech/liberty’ debate of certain IPA/Bolt cheering, US conservative funded, think tank led ‘free-to-offend’ speech has taken hold.
I mostly prefer evidence based argument and even education over ‘opinion’ which has no basis in fact or even logic [most rwnj commentary]. Bolt, devine & blair and all of the IPA mobsters are paid to try and shift public opinion toward the extreme right where most of us don’t live and think. The wealthy elite [the ones who really run this country] are the ones who do live in that dream and are paying for that ‘opinion’ to be disguised as fact and those so-called journalists are paid to discombobulate as much as they can get away with.
It’s the ideology wars!
What KL said. Only applied to the hateful BS that constitutes most of her posts.
The turning point for me was when Big Queer decided to sue the Australian Bishops for a polite and innocuous pamphlet they put out. I realised then that by the time this mob were through implementing their agenda freedom of thought not to mention freedom of speech would be out the window. Now it is total war.
I do not want to live in a divided society based on identity group politics. Obama has stoked a race war in the US and the hard left is busy doing its best to bring one on here. The Kalgoorlie race riot must have been very pleasing to them.
“”Big Queer”
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I do not want to live in a divided society based on identity group politics.
Divided by whom? au contraire …
Or should I say what … the competitive urge of greed to gain more wealth than anyone could possibly need in one lifetime simply to become powerful in a world being destroyed by the very thing that they have produced … an economic nightmare that is constantly manipulated to keep the poor forever poor and the rich wallowing in wealth …
If that economic nightmare they manipulate a war (or three) get the poor to fight it for them and the game begins again (or simply continues) …
I prefer to thrive in a society, not simply survive in an economy!
If that economic nightmare fails they manipulate a war
“”an economic nightmare that is constantly manipulated to keep the poor forever poor and the rich wallowing in wealth …
If that economic nightmare they manipulate a war (or three) get the poor to fight it for them and the game begins again (or simply continues) …
It certainly seems that way.
Although we seem to have reached peak capitalism.
Around the world ppl are waking up to the fact that it doesn’t work, and the majority of ppl are worse off while a few untouchables at the top get richer and richer.
TB “Yes”
I want to live in a society where everyone contributes. Where groups aren’t encouraged to put their and out. Where putting your hand out fosters a sense of gratitude not bitter entitlement.
“hand out”
Hello Shane.
“I’d like to thank Walrus and to some extent ToSY ……….in recent days, I’ve witnessed some of the most hateful and vile comments emanating from the RWNJs on this website.”
I assume that is directed at moi although I have barely commentated in the last few weeks
When another commentator goes out of his way to post an unprovoked sneering attack on organisations that actually make a difference then they can expect some blowback. From that I dont resile.
Organsiations similar to this http://tabithaaustralia.org.au/ who I have not worked directly for but in conjunction with in the past might be filled to the brim with Christians and God forbid catlicks but demeaning their work from a pedestal of ignorance is pathetic.
“hand accepted” ToM
I do not want to live in a divided society based on identity group politics
You mean like Australian Bishops?
Where putting your hand out fosters a sense of gratitude not bitter entitlement.
Could you expand on that for me, ToM … “bitter” entitlement is pretty strong … most people I know on welfare of any sort feel grateful that there are systems in place to help … from health, unemployment, aged care, schools, first home assistance and centrelink services …
Perhaps you mean the welfare breaks – entitlements? – the rich folk and politicians now expect and become bitter about losing whenever they are mentioned …
► Multi-national Tax
► Negative Gearing
► Trust Funds
► Super Tax for Rich
► Pollie’s Perqs
► Ex-Pollies Perqs
In the society mentioned above … “everyone contributes” is Utopia … not everyone is able/capable to contribute … but I believe most do … and not all get paid to contribute …
The 21st Century Australian, compared to the 20th Century, is bitter, self centred, individualistic, greedy, technologically adept*, socially inept and isolated and lonely.
*that’s probably questionable too … thumbing text messages isn’t exactly “adept” nor is screen surfing …
Divided by whom?”
Divided by Mongrel Triggs and her ilk. Divided by those who want society broken down into special interest groups who are treated differently. Divided by those who teach people that they are victims and who profit from doing so.
I prefer to thrive in a society, not simply survive in an economy!
Then fuck off to Venezuela. You can’t have a society without an economy, moron.
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“”Divided by those who teach people that they are victims and who profit from doing so.””
What, like religious groups?
Religious groups (most of the Christian ones any way) don’t tell their congregations they are victims. They tell them they will be saved if they work hard, be kind to others and say their prayers. Those that are infiltrated by leftists are indistinguishable from other drongo leftist groups.
The Jews just keep their heads down and do their thing. Some Muslims want to return to the traditional Islam of the Prophet – a political organisation headed by a murderous war-lord and hell-bent on world domination through jihad.
But if you want real hate-speech just go to Mardi Gras and look at the way Christians are mocked and depicted.
My personal view is that children are generally better off being raised by both of their biological parents. By the time Big Queer is finished railroading society to fit their weirdo agenda I will be gaoled for making that point.
You can’t have a society without an economy, moron.
And you won’t have an economy if you keep sucking wealth from society … choose your own insult …
My personal view is that children are generally better off being raised by both of their biological parents.
And yet over 50% of marriages fail … leaving the kids often in limbo … check out how many stepfathers commit murder? Or mothers who are in another relationship … and successful same sex parents there are …
Your personal view is flawed … by the church – reading the rest of your comment … you don’t have to be religious to work hard and be kind to others and you don’t need to be saved unless you think you do, or someone convinces/frightens you that you do … and you certainly don’t need to pray to believe in your fellow man …
I wouldn’t mind so much but religion is a choice … if only religious people followed the teachings … but then they are so convoluted and contrary and contradictory no-one can … so they make their own up as they go …
Those that are infiltrated by leftists are indistinguishable from other drongo leftist groups.
Another odd statement of personal belief … churches infiltrated by “leftists” … whatever a leftist is in your twisted mind … (anyone that disagrees with your “beliefs, methinks)
And the religions you name all believe in the God of Abraham … the same god … what a sarcastic, cynical, cruel and malicious god that must be …
What I’m still trying to figure is how all these people can comment on blogs etc while running a business … I didn’t have time to scratch myself between flights!!
Even now I struggle to sit down and type … (I’m still contributing to society in quite a few ways)
Divided by those who want society broken down into special interest groups who are treated differently.
You mean like religious groups, who are treated differently from other profitable organisations?
don’t tell their congregations they are victims.
Wow, cos ‘persecution’ was kinda central to the Sunday School teachings when I was forced to go to them.
Divided by those who teach people that they are victims and who profit from doing so.
You mean like private schools funded by our tax dollars for religious teachings that are brainwashing another generation of muppets into religious fervour at the expense of tax payers, which they are not!
Even now I struggle to sit down and type …
yeah-nah 😉
“what a sarcastic, cynical, cruel and malicious god that must be … “
Yeah, I know. He lets miserable old farts like you prosper and malignant trolls like Tom R exist at all.
Ross Gittons had an article the other day someone here linked too
It’s kind of a miracle: 25 years of economic growth
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/its-kind-of-a-miracle-25-years-of-economic-growth-20160907-grb0og.html
I thought then that was a very simplistic heading. It was no miracle. It was by design.
Yeah, I know.
And bitter twisted old nobodies to continue their rampant hates online for all the worlds to see.
“You mean like private schools funded by our tax dollars for religious teachings that are brainwashing another generation of muppets into religious fervour at the expense of tax payers, which they are not!”
If only. Now with safe schools the perverts are taking over. I like fisting a s much as the next chap but I don’t think you need to teach the finer points in primary school. The left has already captured the public education system, the universities and the ABC, massively rorting the public purse to push their own vile agenda.
“Even now I struggle to sit down and type …”
Try a donut cushion. They are really comfy.
Yeah, I know. He lets miserable old farts like you prosper and malignant trolls like Tom R exist at all.
How little you really know … you sound miserable every day … I just counter most of your “beliefs” … ageist remarks and similar insults demonstrate far more about the author than the recipient … also demonstrates a limited knowledge and vocabulary …
Big difference is that I don’t need to defend a skyfairy tale of malignancy cruelty … that seems to seep constantly through the personal hatefulness of each comment …
Religious fervour at its best I suppose … (I’ve never experienced it – to busy living in the real world ) …
Purgatory sound noice …
“And yet over 50% of marriages fail …”
My main point was the likelihood that I will soon enough not be permitted to make such statements on pain of prosecution for having offended someone or other. Which is why I’m not responding to your misconceived argument on this point.
” I just counter most of your “beliefs” … “
Is that what your jabbering is trying to do?
Try a donut cushion. They are really comfy.
Chuckle … I guess you chew on yours …
Obviously you own a doughnut cushion … now I understand your attempt at insult/humour comment referring to haemorrhoid … probably explains a lot of your anger issues too …
It is a cruel god …
“you sound miserable every day …”
OK. I will admit to being more bitter and twisted lately. I blame Roz Ward for explaining exactly why safe schools was all about forwarding the Marxist agenda and had little to do with bullying. Or Big Queer for suing the Bishops. Or maybe I’m just stressed or getting old. But then again I haven’t noticed those pushing their shit-filled leftist barrows show any sign of self-reflection, not even the vaguest hint that their blinkered ideology might not be 100% true.
“It is a cruel god …” 🙂 🙂 🙂
I like fisting a s much as the next chap
I’m getting the feeling you might run with a different crowd from what I’m used to.
#justsaying
My main point was the likelihood that I will soon enough not be permitted to make such statements on pain of prosecution for having offended someone or other.
per-apps you should consider what it is you are saying then? You may find the fault lies within, rather than without.
My main point was the likelihood that I will soon enough not be permitted to make such statements on pain of prosecution for having offended someone or other.
Actually you didn’t make any point just a lot of ideological statements based on a personal belief …
I apologise* for actually stating facts …
Is that what your jabbering is trying to do?
Nup … that what it does …
I blame Roz Ward for explaining exactly why safe schools was all about forwarding the Marxist agenda and had little to do with bullying. Or Big Queer for suing the Bishops. Or maybe I’m just stressed or getting old.
Maybe you should stop reading sites like ltdnews, and, worst still, believing them?
I was going to paste the image, but I’m too nice for that 😉
http://xkcd.com/1732/
… not even the vaguest hint that their blinkered ideology might not be 100% true.
Guess why not … but not all of us are blinkered extreme right commos …
Some of us are big fans of capitalism in fact just not the abortion that has been created by extreme right wing neo liberal kryschuns …
Divided by Mongrel Triggs and her ilk. Divided by those who want society broken down into special interest groups who are treated differently. Divided by those who teach people that they are victims and who profit from doing so.
Oh, you mean what’s called an open and transparent, compassionate society, one that values all it’s citizens?
What KL said. Only applied to the hateful BS that constitutes most of her posts.
Do I say anything personally abusive to people? Do I insult and offend?
I will admit to the occasional rant when personally targeted myself, I will push back then, but no, I don’t think that I write abusive, nasty posts to my fellow commenters. It’s not who I am.
I may have an ideological difference of opinion and it may be strongly held, but that is not targeted, personal abuse directed at you.
I don’t usually like to be unkind to people, although neil can really try the patience!
TR 2:57
TurnABBOTT in full flight what a fkn drongo! The tweets capture it pretty well …
The emperor has no clothes and no fkn brain!
Dastyari can relax now I’d say … unless the meedya do the usual look over there …
Apparently I say naughty things, KL … 🙂
Do I say anything personally abusive to people?
Yea, I wondered about that, especially coming from someone who uses terms like ‘Mongrel Triggs’ to describe one of the few people trying to protect those we are abusing.
It’s almost as if he WANTS us to continue torturing people.
Would that be a fair assumption sb?
What if they are tho…
exactly
I hope that turnbull is also cautioning the other side not to get into name calling [in the interests of equality].
I hope that turnbull is also cautioning the other side not to get into name calling
you mean with things like ‘Big Queer’, ‘perverts’ or ‘Mongrel Triggs’?
Yea, I wondered about that, especially coming from someone who uses terms like ‘Mongrel Triggs’ to describe one of the few people trying to protect those we are abusing.
And accusing her of being divisive means the default acceptance of the population to others is torture, rape, mental and physical abuse, racism, intolerance and hatred.
the default acceptance of the population to others is torture, rape, mental and physical abuse, racism, intolerance and hatred.
It does seem to be the prevailing mentality ao.
But, I think that can be attributed largely to a media mogul who normalises that sort of shit.
The turning point for me was when Big Queer decided to sue the Australian Bishops for a polite and innocuous pamphlet they put out.
What was the purpose of this very polite pamphlet?
Was the pamphlet an incitement for others to hate and restrict the rights of other people in our society to live without intolerance and prejudice?
Level Playing fields?
There’s A $1,500 Tax Free Limit On Plebiscite Donations For Everybody But Churches
https://www.buzzfeed.com/lanesainty/going-to-the-chapel?utm_term=.sbYAjJLXo#.haGyNwOpL
You can’t have a society without an economy, moron.
You can change the way we value society and that means reforming.
You can heavily regulate the economy, rid our political class of neoliberal ideology and lassez faire capitalism and get back to a fairer society which values people not property or money.
The economy should be serving our society, not society serving the economy.
Today marks the 25th anniversary of the privatisation of the CBA by Paul Keating. While there are major celebrations by investors and management and the board, I actually commiserate over the following. The loss of ownership by 23 million Australians to around 800,000 shareholders. The loss of profit contributions to the revenue of the Commonwealth for the good of all our citizens. The loss of financial control by the Government with the sale of the CBA. The race to close hundreds of Bank Branches in rural areas leaving many towns without banking facilities. The realisation that it was privatised for less than 1 years profit now. The loss of thousands of jobs in the name of profit. The alteration of the charter from ” Provide a service to the people of Australia” to Profit for Shareholders. The greed is good mantra encompassing all the big four as soon as the CBA was privatised. The unbelievable increases in salaries and bonuses for the top. I know because I worked there.
“You can heavily regulate the economy…………..”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortages_in_Venezuela#Currency_and_price_controls
But, I think that can be attributed largely to a media mogul who normalises that sort of shit.
Did you mean “mogul” or “mongrel”, TR?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The economy should be serving our society, not society serving the economy.
See, sb, shimples!
“The realisation that it was privatised for less than 1 years profit now…”
And with good reason…….
“Between 1991 and 1996 the Australian government fully privatised the Commonwealth Bank. The first share offer in 1991 was valued at $1,292 million, the second in 1993 for $1,700 million and the third was sold for $5,000 million in 1996”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Bank
In the last 3 years it has paid almost $10 billion in income tax.
South America again … no-one advocated a SA dictatorship … admittedly we do have simpleton politicians directed by church and big business with an immediate profit mentality …
Continue bleeding the general population of Australia of its wealth and we will end up like Venezuela … radical times beget radical methods … that cause tremendous harm to innocent people …
Wealth has to be shared not accumulated by a few greedy people and sat on … an economy is a living thing and has to be fed … take away the fuel (money) and its suppliers (consumers) it dies … and the society fights for its life!
The bad thing Keating did about the sale of Comm Bank was that the money was used to fund recurrent expenditure. It was not used to pay off debt but to make his deficit budgets smaller.
Costello because of what Keating did made sure all money from asset sales was used to pay off debt.
“You can change the way we value society and that means reforming.
You can heavily regulate the economy, rid our political class of neoliberal ideology and lassez faire capitalism and get back to a fairer society which values people not property or money.
The economy should be serving our society, not society serving the economy.”
It is garbage like that which drives me spare. The real delusion is that the economy is a just a tool which can be easily manipulated to produce social outcomes. Ask the Marxists how that worked out for them. Actually there are plenty of Marxists around now and those silly fuckers seem to have forgotten what happened last time. If you want high youth unemployment then a high-minimum-wage welfare state is the way to go. But there is nothing fair at all about a society that has so much welfare. The welfare itself is a sign of failure – that half of their young people have no jobs and no future – jus the dole. The lucky ones may get some prize position as a high-minded bureaucrat get paid a shit-load to make the problem worse.
The only reason we all do not live in dire poverty is capitalism. Free markets made the difference between a precarious 16th century existence and now. Free markets have continued to pull millions of people out of abject poverty where they have been allowed to operate. The left have got nothing – look at Cuba or Venezuela. Remember Fuckhead Phil Adams begging Chavez to come teach us his disastrous ways? Or Obama all but bending over and lubing up for him.
All the left will do is fuck up society. And WTF does “fairer” mean? Other than lots of high-paying jobs for people like Mongrel Triggs. The end result for society is more unfairness. If black lives mattered to Obama it doesn’t show in terms of outcomes. Minorities are worse off than when he came to office. And now that Obama has bashed the cops and cowed them from doing their jobs properly many more murders are occurring in the major cities and guess who the majority of victims are (as well as a majority of perps)? And the dumb leftists want to bring the BLM disease here! Ultimately “fairer” means whatever makes leftists feel warm and gooey, that wonderful feeling they get when they stroke their genitals and imagine their own greatness.
The reason that I am not a leftist, that I utterly hate leftist ideology, is that I want the world to be a better place. I am prepared to learn from history and human nature. Leftists just want to double down on stupidity. This is just another example. If you actually care for children you would want to strengthen traditional families. But the left wants to destroy traditional families. Civilisations fall. Obama has done far more than his fair share in this regard. In Australia Mongrel Triggs, Roz Ward, Socialist Alternative, Commo Rhiannon and the Greens are all pushing us as fast as possible in that direction.
I agree TB. Wealth concentration will inevitably lead to the alienation of the poor and the election of extremists. However those at the top never see it coming until it is too late.
“Wealth has to be shared not accumulated “
What a fucking stupid statement that is! Wealth has to be created. The way you do that is via capitalism. The rest is just stupid jealousy. I hate wealthy cunts who use their money to buy political influence as much as anyone. Especially the malevolent malignant George Soros. But ultimately this isn’t zero-sum game. And making everyone better off is preferable to an equality of misery which is all the left really has to offer.
Just arrived in some hell hole that’s more humid than Brisbane
South America again
Yea, I note he never complains we might end up like a Nordic country does he?
Just arrived in some hell hole that’s more humid than Brisbane
splatterBottom’s a town?
The loss of ownership by 23 million Australians to around 800,000 shareholders. The loss of profit contributions to the revenue of the Commonwealth for the good of all our citizens
You may be right if the govt spent money wisely but they don’t. They just waste heaps of money. The less money we give govt the better. They might be more careful if we reduce govts income.
“Just arrived in some hell hole that’s more humid than Brisbane”
Darwin?
“”If you actually care for children you would want to strengthen traditional families.””
Hear hear! Maybe we should make them compulsory?
I want a cup of Milo.
Why is Twitter tanking? And what is the Alt-Right (among other topics)?
Hello shaneinqld, thanks for dropping by, I’ve missed your very level headed comments.
“…If you actually care for children you would want to strengthen traditional families…”
“…But the left wants to destroy traditional families…”
As much as unfettered capitalism does with it’s early sexualisation of children and the punishing work commitments that do not allow this wonderful, mythic traditional family any time together?
The left wants children to enjoy their lives and become well adjusted adults with good self esteem and peer support, children who don’t suffer from bullying or exclusion.
Yes, our children are growing up too soon. But blame capitalism, not sex
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jun/11/capitalism-sexualisation-children
…What is needed then is not some weird repression of sexuality or of young people, but of a rapacious capitalism that commodifies every desire and yes, will sell sex to children..
Corporate Paedophilia: Sexualisation of children in Australia
Click to access DP90.pdf
Sex and society (4): Capitalism & gay oppression
http://left-flank.org/2015/06/19/sex-and-society-4-capitalism-gay-oppression/
https://www.psychology.org.au/community/public-interest/sexualisation/
Click to access Submission%2017%20Australian%20Christian%20Lobby.pdf
“Yea, I note he never complains we might end up like a Nordic country does he?”
ROFLMAO
WOW……..WOW……..WOW
That is the biggest “look over there ” EVER…..EVER !
Stooped Leftist that just finds the facts to be an “Inconvenient Truth” as usual
“Yeah, I know. He lets miserable old farts like you prosper ……….”
Careful Splatter ………..TheBigot of QLD is a protected species around here.
Thanks KL.
Funny how the $7,000,000,000 paid in dividends to benefit 800,000 shareholders of the CBA for 2016 alone, rather than to the general revenue of the country to benefit more than 23,000,000 citizens is more than the omnibus budget saving measures being negotiated in the parliament right now. The $10,000,000,000 of tax would have been paid irrespective of ownership as the tax on profit would instead be a dividend to the Commonwealth and other taxes paid have always been paid even during the years of government ownership. Other payments for example Rates to councils, while not required by properties owned by the federal government, were always paid ex-gratia by the bank, massively benefitting small rural communities and their councils. Those branches are now closed and gone for good.
Neil
Wastage of money is a completely different argument than selling off assets that generate an income for a government to allow it to provide services to its people, would you not agree. Would you also not agree that spending $170,000,000 on a big public opinion poll when the politician’s do not even have to accept it is the most outrageous waste of money ever considering John Howard changed the marriage act simply by legislation in parliament. If you demand a public vote then why not a referendum where the peoples voice is binding.
Tom R.
What I find amazing is the hysteria over communism, yet the most capitalist country on the planet has massive debt to a communist nation. Even we have debt to China. The hypocrisy is stunning.
“The $10,000,000,000 of tax would have been paid irrespective of ownership as the tax on profit would instead be a dividend to the Commonwealth……”
You cant say that without acknowledging that the staff layoffs and branch closures were necessary. Much of that was due to new technologies.
As were the various takeovers made over the years e.g. Bank West.
You cannot claim that the profit would have occurred anyway.Otherwise you are just cherry picking in your argument.
“If you demand a public vote then why not a referendum where the peoples voice is binding.”
Well you’d certainly get Corey Bernardi’s vote on that one.
There’s too much religious influence in the public domain. This is a direct result of the public funding, the taxation relief provided to religion, to charities and all their affiliates and third party associations. Religion has become such an infiltrating, pervacious and pernicious influence that it permeates every sphere of public policy in a supposedly secular country, it’s tentacles stretching to all areas like a religious mafia without any regulation or policing, how has this been allowed to happen?
Religion continues its free ride without our blessing
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-29/fotinopoulos-why-does-the-church-still-get-a-free-ride/4918626
…The majority of Australians say church and state should be separate, yet religion continues to be privileged in our society at taxpayer expense…
…So why does the government continue to provide financial assistance in the order of $31 billion annually, according to the Secular Party of Australia, to religious institutions that are becoming less relevant to Australians? One explanation lies with the outsourcing of a lot of social welfare to various religious organisations by the Howard government.
After all, what better way of feeding the poor, housing the homeless, caring for the elderly, and counselling the mentally unwell than by enlisting the support of committed, altruistic, experienced workers who are close to the people who need this kind of help – all at a knock down price with the provider’s blessing to boot. It’s probably a win for the government and the church, but I’m not too sure if the social benefits extend to an expanding irreligious demographic.
By shifting a costly and complex social responsibility to religious providers, the government also exempts them from anti-discrimination laws. This is particularly evident with faith-based aged care providers that are free to discriminate against gays and lesbians on the sole basis that religious ethos overrides the principle of fair and equal treatment of all people.
We only need to look to certain state schools to see how government resources are used to support particular religious views and programs of religious instruction. And there is the $430 million that has gone to employ religious functionaries such as chaplains in state schools.
So what does a society that is becoming increasingly secular think about these legal and financial arrangements? Well, we won’t really know unless we have a debate that is as robust as the one surrounding the carbon tax, paid parental leave or any policy that involves large government subsidies to specific groups and organisations…
Let’s have that public debate and let’s get back to public services being provided by the public service, they are at least provided on a secular and non judgemental, non prejudicial basis. Religion is also being advantaged in the commercial sector because other private service competitors and potential competitors are hampered by the tax free status of religious organisations.
Shane, i don’t really think China qualifies as Communist in the way Marx would have envisioned the system.
It’s a mixed economy and I’d suggest the growth part is mainly due to the capitalist/private sector
Even state owned enterprises act in the same manner as multinationals
“What I find amazing is the hysteria over communism, yet the most capitalist country on the planet has massive debt to a communist nation. Even we have debt to China. The hypocrisy is stunning.”
It isn’t “capitalist” to accumulate massive debt to pay for massive recurrent welfare. That would be the project of the idiot left. The stupidity is stunning.
Wastage of money is a completely different argument than selling off assets that generate an income for a government to allow it to provide services to its people, would you not agree.
No i do not agree. Govts just waste money. The more you give them the more they waste. The people in these PS jobs only care about themselves and paying themselves higher wages. It is human nature. The less we give them the better
yet the most capitalist country on the planet has massive debt to a communist nation.
I would suspect ours is bigger. Unlike other Western countries we have to fund the bulk of our debt from overseas. The USA does not have to do that.
Stooped Leftist that just finds the facts to be an “Inconvenient Truth” as usual
Just like pointing out (with F.A.C.T.S.) that not all socialist countries are basket cases. Many are in fact world leaders.
Of course, you want to focus on one specific country. So, how were they going before the socialists took over?
Shane, i don’t really think China qualifies as Communist in the way Marx would have envisioned the system.
What, but anything Labor attempts to introduce that is mildy socialist in its leanings is immediately compared with Marx, no questions asked!
But a successful China (who is actually COMMUNIST), nah, theirs is a special case.
If stoopid could be harnessed as energy, this site alone could power the nation for as long as reb can put up with it.
Don’t shut it down reb (at least until me coffee’s boiled)
It isn’t “capitalist” to accumulate massive debt to pay for massive recurrent welfare. That would be the project of the idiot left.
I think you’ll find that the US debt spiralled under bush, as it has under the libs here.
Are those now commies too?
Keep on talking, cos the lights here just got brighter
I think you’ll find that the US debt spiralled under bush, as it has under the libs here
Get stuffed. Debt was zero here in 2007. We were one of the few countries in human history with no govt debt under Howard/Costello. Debt exploded under Rudd/Gillard.
Rudd/Gillard started a runaway debt truck which is most probably unstoppable. The traitor to Australia, TomR should be apologising for locking up 8,000 children, destroying the lives of the unemployed and destroying our country
Chill out nil, you’ll blow the fuses.
Just telling the truth. You locked up 8,469 children because you enjoy doing things like that. You find out what people believe by what they do not by what they say.
Great, now I need a new fuse!
Thanks nil!
No you need to say you were wrong. But you never will. You will continue to lock up people and never be ashamed like all ALP supporters
That’s it, I’m turning the power off.
fucken renewable energies grrrrrr!
TheBigot of QLD is a protected species around here.
… I’d say perhaps respected not protected … not many comments get canned at TGT …
… not knowing what really happened … and, I notice, my apology ignored …
… we know your “revenge scale” is higher than most here … but I’ve moved on .. I suggest you build a bridge …
And based on more recent comments … although you’ve denied it … you certainly react like a closet catlk …
The stupidity is stunning.
Then economic ignorance trumps (lol!) stupid …
People fuck up economies and economic systems … they use the power of greed … and it eventually gobbles up anyone in its path …
Just read the bible and listen to Jesus … he tipped a few tables over for fun!
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I’d say perhaps respected not protected
Well i do no respect anything you say. Why should i respect somebody who locked up 8,469 children?
I think this article fairly well describes a phenomenon I’ve noticed in my attitudes over the last year or so:
And I actually come here to hear different points of view. It’s just that instead of appreciating the other point of view I often end up at the full frothing loony stage at the slightest provocation – a wilfully ignorant snicker from the world’s greatest troll or yet another glut of dumb tweets from posturing arrogant leftist poltroons. Even TB, who is relatively polite (as he will be the first to tell you), generally upsets my equilibrium these days. This is not good.
It’s just that instead of appreciating the other point of view I often end up at the full frothing loony stage at the slightest provocation
Maybe take a chill pill 😉
Of course, it’s all those “posturing arrogant leftist poltroons” fault isn’t it, not the one who goes off just because someone else posits another ‘point of view’????????
For every action there is an equal … and opposite … reaction …
… not sure whether the “Even TB” remark is a compliment or not … being “the first to tell you” … an’ all … 😉
Great, now I need a new fuse!
I’m sure he’ll light you one!
“” instead of appreciating the other point of view I often end up at the full frothing loony stage at the slightest provocation””
Have you ever stopped to consider what that might say about you….?
“…Maybe take a chill pill😉
Of course, it’s all those “posturing arrogant leftist poltroons” fault isn’t it, not the one who goes off just because someone else posits another ‘point of view’????????..”
My thoughts too. Not very tolerant of you sb. Lighten up or your b/p will be elevated 🙂 It’s not like your pov is censored either. I just don’t agree with you most times. Good on you for coming here and getting out of your usual comfort zones though!
I’m sure he’ll light you one!
Like I need help with that 😉
It’s not like your pov is censored either.
Nah, it’s just WRONG! 😆
All these years later, and grodo’s gone mainstream ao. WTF!!
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/14/debunking-malcolm-roberts-the-case-against-a-climate-science-denier?CMP=share_btn_tw
faark, no wonder I avoid it like the plague these days.
It’s a bitter entitlement mentality these days.
Compensate people for something that no longer exists, but attacj the person asking the question rather than provide an answer
(currently in Seoul, no such sense of entitlement here)
Compensate people for something that no longer exists
You mean a future with fossil fuels?
but attacj the person asking the question rather than provide an answer
Yes, I do get called a troll a lot, instead of having answers provided.
I don’t know if that’s better than what others do or not, ie, just ignore it.
btw, I think you meant “attack” 😉
I’ve been to Seoul.
Have you tried the local delicacy, kimchi?
It’s fermented cabbage made with garlic and chilli.
It’s fkn awful. (Just in case you were wondering).
Last night I had some fermented cabbage! I didn’t get the recipe. This evening I’m expecting fermented beans or similar.
The culinary delight of travel.
…(Just in case you were wondering)…
I had been wondering about that particular delicacy when it started being pushed on the various celebrity chef shows. It never really appealed. My european ancestors probably had similar with the sauerkraut that my father remembered being eaten by his grand parents and on family occasions. I don’t feel a need to try it.
I think those shows try to get a trend going, next thing you know the cost of it is sky high eg kale. They must get paid to promote produce.
This evening I’m expecting
fermented beansdiarrhea or similar.Fixed it for ya, ToM …
Fermented Cabbage !!!. Just what my methane producing bowels are crying out for.
If the CBA staff and branches were kept the profit would be reduced but the employee taxes would increase. The employees would support the local towns with their wages which would have resulted in other businesses surviving with those businesses employing other people paying additional tax. There would not be the welfare and unemployment payments to the employees now without jobs. The continued sourcing of local materials would have ensured local business remained profitable and also paid tax in Australia.
ToM , Just because China isn’t your definition of Communist doesn’t mean it is not communist. It is a one party state where you cannot own land and where your life is totally controlled by the state. I would tend to call that Communist. North Korea allows some very limited private entrepreneurial activity as well, are you telling me they are now no longer communist ?. Amazing how a person mentions the slightest thing about having a social aspect to capitalism and then hysteria abounds regarding turning us into a socialist communist country, yet the same ultra capitalists seek to justify trading with and borrowing from a communist country simply because it has ever so slightly opened a window to capitalism and allowed major corporations to offshore all their activities while making their profits onshore and exporting those profits through very cleaver manipulation of fees and charges to by their subsidiaries to avoid paying their fair share of tax in the society where they generate their wealth.
ToM. I think compensation for politicians for accommodation that does not exist or expenses that do not exist while being paid a so called allowance, costs us tax payers far more than the small amount of compensation to those on assistance measures struggling to make ends meet. One payment to One politician for 1 nights away form home allowance covers 55 recipients for 2 weeks. Let alone all the other allowances used for non existent expenses while also living in their negatively geared investment properties at the same time. the government had better be very careful continuing to demonise the unemployed as apparently 34% of the long term unemployed are now over 50 and their biggest support base is the over 55s.
Apparently the immigration report is very damning, it is up there with pink batts says Bernard Keane on ABC radio.
Ministers and departments being misled.
A backwards tender process that started with the preferred contractor and everything else added after to fit that outcome.
Procurement costs blown out to double for cost of detainng a person.
“If the CBA staff and branches were kept the profit would be reduced but the employee taxes would increase. ”
If the CBA staff and branches were kept the LOSS would be INCREASED and the TAXPAYERS taxes would increase.
Unless you are arguing that CBA management were so incompetent they were closing profitable branches but also managed to make more profit year on year than previously which is just completely nonsensical
The CBA was profitable, not loss making like Westpac which almost collapsed under a loss of $700,000,000. The CBA closed profitable branches because once it was privatised a minimum profit level and how actual profit was calculated was adjusted to meet a minimum return to its now privatised shareholders. The only non profitable branch in the whole network at the time was at Ivanhoe in NSW and that was still very marginal.
“The CBA closed profitable branches because once it was privatised a minimum profit level and how actual profit was calculated was adjusted to meet a minimum return………”
So ?????????
All that shows is that publicly owned it was not an efficient operation. Most privatised companies have a minimum return on capital.
Shane, China is a dictatorship with a mixed economy. It has a government that fosters plenty of capitalism internally and internationally.
It is hardly communist in my opinion.
“It is hardly communist in my opinion.”
Ditto with Vietnam.
Only the ruling nutters in Hanoi actually believe the joint is communist.
They obviously dont get out much
ToM
So why are we supporting a dictatorship and borrowing from a dictatorship when we went to war to remove Saddam Hussein claiming he was a cruel dictator.
An enterprise that makes $1 profit is still profitable. Lets say there are 1500 branches Australia wide providing a service to its citizens, employment in country towns, wages spent in country shops, decentralised operations etc etc. Once privatised the charter is changed from providing a service to the people of Australia to providing a minimum dividend to its shareholders. 300 branches make a small profit, but if we close those 300 branches and force people to use the internet and concentrate lending decisions in an ivory tower in a capital city then we can accept a certain loss of clients but will make far more profit from those who remain with us while giving them the poorest of service. So now it is all about shareholder profit and no social consequences regarding fleeing country towns. It created a domino effect where the big 4 just closed branches in the country at an horrific rate, so are you telling me that all those branches closed by the NAB, Westpac and ANZ at the same time were not profitable for all those years they kept them open ?. The sale of the CBA opened the floodgates for decimation of banking facilities in rural areas. of course I am telling you that profitable branches were closed, they just did not meet minimum returns for shareholder greed.
It is hardly communist in my opinion.
Is America a communist country because its private industries force their employees to rely on Government payments in order to survive?
“………so are you telling me that all those branches closed by the NAB, Westpac and ANZ at the same time were not profitable for all those years they kept them open ?”
pssssssssssssssst !
Have you ever heard of a thing called an ATM or even a webby thingy ?
e.g. How many people receive a pay packet with cash inside it these days ?
Most branches that were closed in country areas had NO thingies. None . nada . zip zilch. Also a thingy cannot provide you with anything other than cash. cannot provide loan facilities, cannot provide equipment finance, cannot provide mortgage facilities. Why do you think brokers have become so big. personal service, something the Banks decided to get out of. Now the banks buy up the aggregators who control the brokers because they decimated their own nest. Also amazing how a banks financial planners will suggest you have your investments in all different areas and asset classes including property, whereas the banks have divested their other assets and are principally a shell of debt and nothing more.
“………..whereas the banks have divested their other assets and are principally a shell of debt and nothing more.”
Net Assets $60.756 Billion………………………..is that “a shell of debt” ?
http://www.republicast.com/publications/cbaar2016/#d=1&p=79&m=1
yes !! What percentage of the assets are simply debt and what percentage are not. If you remove the assets that are simply debt, what net assets does the bank then have ?
“What percentage of the assets are simply debt and what percentage are not. ”
LOL………………….Net Assets by Definition is Total Assets minus Total Debts.
That’s why it’s called “Net” Assets
http://www.accountingcoach.com/blog/meaning-of-net-assets
I know what “Net Assets” is. I am trying to point out that at the time of privatisation the Bank had a far more diverse range of assets than it does now. Most of its assets now are debt as in debt owed by customers. That is the debt I am talking about. It has a very limited asset range as it divested its property assets while recommending its own customers do the exact opposite.
“It has a very limited asset range as it divested its property assets while recommending its own customers do the exact opposite.”
Well that’s just not true since it’s customer loan assets are mainly secured by customer property assets i.e. collateral.
Plus the Banks are subject to APRA regulations as well.
Otherwise do you want the banks to start directly investing in the ASX ?
So are you telling me APRA told the banks to sell off their branches and lease them back rather than hold them as an asset on their portfolio. I don’t think taking a mortgage over a customers loan is the same as owning the property yourself, otherwise their assets would list the value of the securities mortgaged, would they not ?
“otherwise their assets would list the value of the securities mortgaged, would they not ?”
Its already done via their Doubtful Debt Provisions. If the loans are deemed doubtful recoveries then a provision is provided.
If Real Estate values fall then the Doubtful Debt Provision is increased.
And by the way APRA requires high liquidity levels within the banks. Hence they hold cash and government bonds as well.
Banks reduce risk by taking out mortgages over real property. What other asset class would you like them to invest in ?……A bit os ASX like………..BHP Billiton……….Woolworths……………..Wesfarmers……………..Rio……………………Telstra ?
And you cannot compare a customer diversifying assets to spread risk to a Bank. That’s just ludicrous.
Banks are primarily Depoit Takers and Lenders…………Customers only lend via bank deposits with banks otherwise they are mainly restricted to ASX assets or Real Property
Provision is not an asset and if they are only listing doubtful debt securities then they are not listing all of their securities as their assets are they.
Just how much does APRA insist they hold as cash and bonds ? Do you honestly think this will protect them sufficiently during any crisis.
If they are so safe and secure with their limited diversity why did the government (we taxpayers once again supporting a private company of which we have no benefit from their profit) have to guarantee them during the GFC or they would collapse. So you think a Bank that has limited diversity in its portfolio is safer than one that does.
Why can I not compare a customer diversifying assets to a Bank. Exactly why is it ludicrous, give me a fact not an opinion?. Government is always compared to family budgets, a family home and anything else family or company that right leaning people can use to try and create a comparison. A company is an entity in its own right, just like human so why not compare it to the financial advice given to a human.
We both know I look at humanity outcomes and you look at profit outcomes, we will always see things from a different perspective. I believe in a capitalist society with controls and a social requirement form those who profit from its citizens. I do not believe in being able to take as much profit as you can from a society simply by claiming market forces as takeovers contribute to duopolies which are in collusion at the detriment of its citizens. While some might get caught any person knows that the majority. I have witnessed the stench of manipulation and bonuses from management (given in secret) when they manage to convince staff in their department to change their employment conditions under constant pressure by phone and never by written word or email.
Should read. “While some might get caught any person knows that the majority never do”
“Provision is not an asset and if they are only listing doubtful debt securities then they are not listing all of their securities as their assets are they.”
You are now either very deliberately going off on tangents or alternatively you just don’t know how to read a Balance Sheet let alone refer to the various Notes contained detailing the make up of each line.
I cant do anything about the first and I’m not going to waste my time on the second.
“Just how much does APRA insist they hold as cash and bonds ?”
Google it yourself.
“Why can I not compare a customer diversifying assets to a Bank.”
I’ve already explained that and you continually refuse to answer the question
What would you like them to invest in when their current loan book is already secured against the value of real estate?
Dr Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greenpeace: The Practical Environmentalist.