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Unhinged Turnbull unleashes bizarre rant against “rich white kids from Europe”

December 1, 2016

Liberal Party Votes On Leadership As Tony Abbott Responds To Challenge From Malcolm Turnbull

Malcolm Turnbull has gone on a bizarre rant on ABC radio this morning claiming that “Bill Shorten thinks rich kids from Europe should pay less tax than Pacific Islanders working here to send money back to their villages.”

“They say a backpacker from Europe, a rich kid on holidays here from Germany or Norway, backpacking around, he or she should pay less tax and that Pacific Islander who comes here to pick fruit during the season and is sending that money back to his village – some of the poorest countries in the world,” he said.

“The Labor Party, for nothing other than political cynicism, wants these white kids – rich white kids from Europe – who come here on their holidays to pay less tax than some of the Pacific Islanders from some of the poorest countries in the world.”

“And [Mr Shorten] wants these kids, from Europe, to pay less tax than Australians working alongside them. I mean, seriously!

“What’s the principle there?”

Labor has attacked Mr Turnbull for claiming Australians would pay more tax than backpackers because locals can access the tax free threshold for the first $18,200 of their yearly income.

Shadow treasurer Chris Bowen said Mr Turnbull’s comments on foreign workers were “unhinged” and inaccurate.

Under the tax rules for backpackers, 95 per cent of their compulsory super contributions are claimed by the Government when they leave Australia.

DEBATE RAGES OVER TAX RATE

The combination of super tax and the tax rate means the effective tax rate for backpackers under Labor’s compromise of 10.5 per cent is higher than for the Seasonal Worker Program, as these workers are not subject to the same superannuation clawback arrangements.

In addition, under Labor’s 10.5 per cent compromise, there is no income level at which someone on a working holiday visa pays less tax than an Australian worker.

While the Prime Minister is usually an expert when it comes to rich people and the tax they pay, he’s been caught lying today.

Under the Liberals, the backpacker tax:

• Went from zero per cent to 32.5 per cent in the 2015 Budget;

• Then to 19 per cent after a Malcolm Turnbull’s backbench revolted;

• Then to 15 per cent after the crossbench rolled the Government; and

• Is now back at 32.5 per cent after the Turnbull Government lost a second vote in the Senate.

Peak lobby group the National Farmers Federation said it would be a disaster for fruit growers if the 32.5 per cent tax rate kicked in from January.

There is no one else to blame but Malcolm Turnbull and Barnaby Joyce for the backpacker tax debacle they find themselves in.

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410 Comments leave one →
  1. Shane in QLD permalink
    December 1, 2016 1:10 pm

    The PM says they are rich yet Scott Morrison says the numbers were already falling from European Countries because their economies are not doing as well so they don’t have the money. So who is telling the truth are the backpackers from Europe rich or poor.

    In addition can the LNP stop screeching at the ALP. While they were in Opposition they stated their job was to oppose. So now it is the ALP job to oppose. For God sake Scott Morrison and Michaelia Cash grow up and state your case instead of hysterically screaming at the ALP like spoilt brats having a tantrum.

    They claim this is a functioning government after a couple of bits of legislation are passed, after so many amendments, they are virtually new pieces of legislation. Yet when any legislation passed under Julia Gillard with any amendment it showed the dysfunction of the Gillard Government.

    The hypocrisy astounds me. Grow up the lot of you who now go on holidays for a few months while extending longer hours for retail workers who work on a casual basis with no paid holidays.

    A pox on all your rorts and benefits that you go deafeningly silent about while roaring about a bit of overtime or penalty rates.

    A pox on your refusal to hold and RC into Banks or your deafening silence on the theft of money from workers by so many businesses now that it is an epidemic far in excess of union corruption.

  2. Walrus permalink
    December 1, 2016 1:20 pm

    “………while extending longer hours for retail workers who work on a casual basis with no paid holidays”

    Well if they want holidays casuals will then have to give back most of their 25% hourly rate loading.

  3. December 1, 2016 1:33 pm

    “the theft of money from workers by so many businesses now that it is an epidemic far in excess of union corruption”

    Link?

  4. Walrus permalink
    December 1, 2016 1:49 pm

    “Link?”

    ROFLMAO……………….perhaps to the Socialist Alliance News I suspect

  5. December 1, 2016 1:53 pm

    Shane follows the George Monbiot ‘Stream of Consciousness’ school of writing.

  6. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 1, 2016 2:00 pm

    Shane and I rarely agree, but I enjoy his contributions, it’s good to have views that are expressed with passion.

  7. Shane in QLD permalink
    December 1, 2016 3:29 pm

    Walrus :Those who are casual on 25% loading how about you ask them if they would prefer to be full time without the 25% and with holidays, sick leave, long service leave and only having to do one job per week. EVERY single casual worker I have on my books is searching for a full time job which has only a couple of the benefits the blood sucking leeches in our parliament get. Over the years I have witnessed the continual removal of benefits and allowances for staff (myself included) I am yet to see any benefits removed from the leeches in parliament.

    Tony: I have eyes and ears so I read and listen. I do not need to provide a link to have an opinion or to state a comment. If you need a link for everything you obviously have your eyes and ears closed.

    ToM: Thanks Tom, you don’t have to agree with me. I just hate the hypocrisy of it all and the screeching howling of the current government who need to start to accept responsibility rather than blame the party that has been out of office since for a number of years now.

  8. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 1, 2016 3:33 pm

    Link?

    You don’t need a link to state your opinion.

    Labour-hire company PlantGrowPick ‘skimmed’ pay: claim
    http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/labourhire-company-plantgrowpick–skimmed-pay-claim/news-story/4f410ce2150655bdb18239bc6dc471ca

    A LABOUR-hire firm at the centre of a worker deportation scandal has been accused of skimming thousands of dollars from its foreign employees.

    And it’s claimed the Department of Employment, which manages the Seasonal Worker Program, and employment watchdog Fair Work Ombudsman have known of the allegations for nearly a year.

    It is alleged labour-hire company PlantGrowPick has been pocketing tax and superannuation payments it was deducting from workers’ wages, as well as overcharging for health insurance.

    The Weekly Times last week revealed PlantGrowPick tried to “deport” six Fijian workers after they complained about slave-like working conditions.

  9. Walrus permalink
    December 1, 2016 3:55 pm

    Shane the 25% already pays for the sick leave and annual leave and loading. That’s why its there.

    If your side of politics made it easier to employ people e.g simpler Awards and also run the risk of a small business being taken to the FWC by some vindictive arsehole of an employee like (insert a certain participant in a certain 18c case here) then perhaps employers would be more inclined to hire more FT employees.

    A lot of employers would rather the ability to scale back an arsehole to Zero hours rather than naive to go through the whole termination process. That’s why I recommend clients only to engage casuals

    As for Long Service Leave casuals already should receive LSL.

    I do hope you are providing it. You wouldn’t want to dud them would you ?

    https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/long-service-leave

  10. Walrus permalink
    December 1, 2016 3:57 pm

    “You don’t need a link to state your opinion. ”

    The following is an allegation not an opinion

    “……deafening silence on the theft of money from workers by so many businesses now that it is an epidemic far in excess of union corruption.”

  11. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 1, 2016 3:58 pm

    Tony: I have eyes and ears so I read and listen. I do not need to provide a link to have an opinion or to state a comment. If you need a link for everything you obviously have your eyes and ears closed.

    Dont worry shane, they never provide links themselves, it’s just the ‘one-upmanship’ games they like to play.

  12. Walrus permalink
    December 1, 2016 4:10 pm

    “Dont worry shane, they never provide links themselves”

    Eye Roll …..Head Shake……Only if Link means exclusively to Twatter….Yeah whatever.

  13. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 1, 2016 4:27 pm

    Wage fraud is in the billions and there is little by way of penalties to prevent it. White collar crime is certainly under reported and under penalised.

    7-Eleven’s wage fraud sparks $170 billion blow back
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/retail/7elevens-wage-fraud-sparks-170-billion-blow-back-20160826-gr264h.html

    The trick employers use to pay you less
    http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/work/2015/02/25/sham-contracts/

    Australians Give Up $110 Billion To Their Employers In Unpaid Overtime Every Year
    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/australians-give-up-110-billion-to-their-employers-in-unpaid-overtime-every-year-2014-11

  14. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 4:45 pm

    They asked for A link ao, not ‘links’

  15. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 1, 2016 4:54 pm

    😆 tomR, exactly! [and shouldn’t it be a lower case A in your comment 😉 ]

  16. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 4:56 pm

    Sorry, of course ur right AO 😉

    (Bloody tablets )

  17. TB Queensland permalink
    December 1, 2016 4:59 pm

    Six steps back … one step forward … how to destroy a country in one Tin Eared Tory lesson …

    These pricks couldn’t wrap fish and chips up properly, let alone run the business …

    Malcolm Turnbull has acknowledged the looming review of the Direct Action climate policy in 2017 “may result in some changes” to the federal renewable energy target.

    The prime minister’s hedged observation on Thursday morning comes ahead of the release of the preliminary findings of the Finkel energy security review determining whether the national electricity market can deliver reliable base load power while meeting Australia’s climate change commitments.

    Some participants in the Finkel process think it is possible the review could float the desirability of an emission intensity trading scheme for the electricity sector – a form of carbon trading currently being championed by the South Australian government through the energy ministers council.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/01/direct-action-review-could-bring-changes-to-renewable-targets-says-pm

    Still targeting commenters rather than discussing the subject … getting tedious …

  18. Walrus permalink
    December 1, 2016 5:02 pm

    “Still targeting commenters rather than discussing the subject … getting tedious …”

    Yes you best refrain

  19. December 1, 2016 5:11 pm

    “I have eyes and ears so I read and listen. I do not need to provide a link to have an opinion or to state a comment. If you need a link for everything you obviously have your eyes and ears closed.”

    No worries Shane. Your comments are based on feelings, not facts. Now I can ignore them, knowing you’re not making any serious, verifiable points..

  20. December 1, 2016 5:13 pm

    “Dont worry shane, they never provide links themselves, it’s just the ‘one-upmanship’ games they like to play.”

    That’s really hurtful.

    ROLF!

  21. December 1, 2016 5:14 pm

    “getting tedious”

    Yes.

  22. Walrus permalink
    December 1, 2016 5:49 pm

    “That’s really hurtful. ”

    Indeed !

    Looks like a Trigger Point to me

    Go get some therapy.

    I recommend ……….https://www.crackawines.com.au/Images/ImageGalleryPortraitNoWaterMark/NV_Penfolds_StHenri_Shiraz1.png

  23. December 1, 2016 5:52 pm

    Apparently a 15% Backpacker Tax has passed the house, on its way to the senate.

    Those in agreement: The Coalition, The Greens, One Nation (minus Rod Culleton), Team Xenophon, Liberal Democrat.

    Those against: Labor. Derryn Hinch, Jackie Lambie, Rod Culleton.

  24. December 1, 2016 5:58 pm

    The LNP doing deals with the Greens.

    Much hilarity!

  25. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:02 pm

    The LNP doing deals with the Greens.

    Is there a clause in there about backpayers from Malaysia perhaps?

  26. December 1, 2016 6:04 pm

    “The LNP doing deals with the Greens.”

    I know. I feel dirty.

  27. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:08 pm

    I feel dirty.

    Maybe you can get a backpacker to clean you up on the cheap 😉

  28. December 1, 2016 6:11 pm

    “Maybe you can get a backpacker to clean you up on the cheap😉”

    Can I withold 15%?

  29. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:12 pm

    It’s a win all round (well, what counts for a win these days I guess)

  30. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:15 pm

    Can I withold 15%?

    Of what exactly. Cleansing coverage? 🙂

  31. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:16 pm

    And now it’s just all too tedious when it’s shown that shane was right all along and there is plenty of research to back up his evidence-based and educated opinion.

    Too typical.

    Never mind, we’re post-truth now!

  32. December 1, 2016 6:16 pm

    I might use Cleanevent.

  33. December 1, 2016 6:18 pm

    ” it’s shown that shane was right all along”

    Really? Shane didn’t feel the need to provide any ‘evidence’. He’s post-proof, apparently..

  34. Walrus permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:27 pm

    “He’s post-proof, apparently..”

    Warning : Hair Trigger Event tonight

  35. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:56 pm

    Hmm, so someone saying they don’t feel they need to provide proof negates the proof provided.

    Post-Sense rears its ugly head again

  36. TB Queensland permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:56 pm

    tedious is not the word … its like watching a C Grade version of Lord of the Flies …

  37. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:57 pm

    “I might use Cleanevent”

    Warning. They have standards

  38. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 6:59 pm

    Lords of the Cries perhaps TB?

  39. TB Queensland permalink
    December 1, 2016 7:32 pm

    Its astounding that we have returned to the mid 1930’s so quickly in the scheme of things …

    The right seems to think that anyone who disagrees with the world we live in … is a lefty, commo, socialist … in other words stupid …

    Labor supporters are pissed off with the ALP for being TOO right wing … FFS.

    In response to Kellogg’s statement, Breitbart published a furious attack on the cereal company on Wednesday saying that the move represents “an escalation in the war by leftist companies … against conservative customers”. Editor-in-chief Alexander Marlow called for a boycott of the company’s products, saying: “For Kellogg’s, an American brand, to blacklist Breitbart News in order to placate left-wing totalitarians is a disgraceful act of cowardice.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/30/breitbart-news-kelloggs-advertising-boycott-alt-right

    Calling a cereal company “left wing” is stupid and childish … or is it because Brietbart is ‘extreme right wing” and as usual they want to be in control of others!

  40. December 1, 2016 7:33 pm

    “Hmm, so someone saying they don’t feel they need to provide proof negates the proof provided.”

    Correct. Shane doesn’t have the nous to provide proof. The cavalry is clutching at straws.

  41. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 1, 2016 8:06 pm

    Hmm, so someone saying they don’t feel they need to provide proof negates the proof provided.

    yairs, it does. You just completely ignore the bits that you earlier demanded if you don’t like it.

    He’s post-proof, apparently..

    But, the proof is out there 👽👽👽

    I happen to think shane’s posts are very well thought out and expressed. I’d much prefer his reasoned responses and careful thoughts on our current political debates [I share much of them], they also bring an atmosphere of respectful discussion. I can take or leave the smartarsery and personal attacks which kill off rather than add to discussion.

    Thanks for your continued contributions shane, the gutter gets dirty sometimes.

  42. December 1, 2016 8:11 pm

    “I’d much prefer his reasoned responses and careful thoughts on our current political debates [I share much of them]”

    You don’t say.

  43. December 1, 2016 8:17 pm

    “I happen to think shane’s posts are very well thought out and expressed. I’d much prefer his reasoned responses and careful thoughts on our current political debates [I share much of them], they also bring an atmosphere of respectful discussion. I can take or leave the smartarsery and personal attacks which kill off rather than add to discussion.”

    I agree.

    It sure beats snarky comments from the sidelines that some other people only seem capable of.

  44. December 1, 2016 8:21 pm

    “I agree.”

    There’s a shock.

  45. TB Queensland permalink
    December 1, 2016 8:26 pm

    Hear! Hear!

    TIAD!

  46. TB Queensland permalink
    December 1, 2016 8:27 pm

    You’re a shonk!

    TIAD!

  47. TB Queensland permalink
    December 1, 2016 8:28 pm

    That’s a bloody slow ping! 8.21 to 8.26! Vista time!

  48. Tom R permalink
    December 1, 2016 9:50 pm

    “It sure beats snarky comments from the sidelines that some other people only seem capable of.”

    Ooh rebs gone all Nigella on our asses :snark:

  49. December 2, 2016 2:30 am

    Yes softcocks (l noticed that `you` didn`t notice)

    talkbull,,,,Islander who comes here to pick fruit during the season and is sending that money back to his village .. some of the poorest countries in the world .. $5100 on average for each 6-month season these Pacific Islanders are sending back to their villages,,,,

    https://www.pm.gov.au/media/2016-12-01/interview-michael-brissenden-abc-am

    # ,, that braying-media is largely omitting that particular part of the transcript, my guess cheer-squading

    # ,, for those still pent-up in echo chambers, $5100 to $6000 for 6-months is equating to `about` $3-hour, braying-media are playing down the `blackbirding`like, `slave`like aspect of `talkbulls-achievement`

    # ,, FYI, `fruit-pick` hours are long 10-plus hours a day, 7-days a week, usually

  50. December 2, 2016 6:20 am

    shane,,,,one job per week. EVERY single casual worker I have on my books is searching for a full time job,,,,#true/agree

    shane,,,,blood sucking leeches in our parliament get. Over the years I have witnessed the continual removal of benefits and allowances for staff,,,,#true/agree

    shane,,,,deafening silence on the theft of money from workers by so many businesses now that it is an epidemic,,,,#and-systematic

    # ,, the first things l thought of was re-phoenixing, fake-contracting and 7eleven, l needn`t go on as armchair has handed `our` peanut gallery there arse above.

    For Example.

    blubbering,,,,That`s why I recommend clients only to engage casuals,,,,

    # ,, Shane, this particular peanut was big-noting and bragging not too long ago he donated `timber` to some off-shore disaster, and seeking `kudos` here for doing so. He then became unhinged when l pointed-out that nearly every comment he posts here has been anti-people or cheering for poverty in Australia.

    blubbering,,,,employers would rather the ability to scale back an arsehole to Zero hours,,,,

    # ,, l would bet that he doesn`t tell them to advertise the job truthfully tho, `no-hope-of-full-time`, `only-ever-will-be-casual`, etc. The automatic assumption that the worker is the arse-hole too, is a very facinating observation too, the `pretence` that a worker cannot have a legitimate gripe, or the company/boss is `never` a cnut. #teabags

    # ,, don`t let the mindless chanting teabags turn you away Shane (-:

  51. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 9:11 am

    The teabagz supporters here must be delighted with Trump – the way he is clearly so non teabag – appointing various billionaire bankers to look after the rust belt. That should work.

  52. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 9:18 am

    “……..this particular peanut was big-noting and bragging not too long ago he donated `timber` to some off-shore disaster, and seeking `kudos` here for doing so………”

    ROFLMAO @ you douchebag

    Hopefully it comes as no surprise to you that I could not give a flying rats fucking arse what you think fuckwit.

    I dont seek kudos for anything.

    It seems to me that fuckwits like yourself just cant handle the world and find it all too too tough to face every morning.

    “The automatic assumption that the worker is the arse-hole too,…..”

    Where did I say that was a certainty moron ?

    Go away and cry in the corner of your nearest Centrelink office which I suspect you frequent quite regularly. Oh and take a mop as I suspect you’ll be there for a while

  53. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 9:25 am

    It seems to me Teabagz that you get very frustrated with attention deficit as it seems that I may be one of the only commentators that refers to your mainly indecipherable posts from time to time.

    It must internally destroy your fragile little ego

    Oh well I shall cease that practice forthwith too.

  54. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 9:37 am

    Where did I say that was a certainty moron ?

    Where does ‘certainty’ = ‘assumption’?

    On another topic, are we running a sweep for the date of brandis being dumped across the xmas period? And what nimble legal mind could possibly replace him?

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/33385343/bleak-outlook-for-facts-in-the-bell-case/?cmp=st#page1

  55. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 9:45 am

    It looks like the ABCC bill is a major stuff up on the grubmints behalf, but, I wouldn’t be cheering yet. The depths this mob are prepared to go makes me wonder about industrial relations into the future

    “How can employers magically persuade their workers and unions to give up virtually everything that they have fought for in collective bargaining, other than by paying a massive wage premium?”

    The libs have form

  56. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 10:02 am

    “Olympic Dam’s latest outage shows Australia’s investability and jobs are placed in peril by the failure of policy to both reduce emissions and secure affordable, dispatchable and uninterrupted power,”

    – Andrew MacKenzie BHP Billiton

    How is that SA experiment going for you TomR ……………LOL

  57. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 10:07 am

    The ABCC imposed lawful behavior on the construction industry last time. The same result should be expected this time.

    That’s a good outcome for people that prefer law and order. Maybe not so great for those that like bullying, intimidation and that kind of thing

  58. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 10:12 am

    LOL

    It was the Judge’s fault……………………..this case just keeps giving…..

    From the Oz

    “A solicitor who bungled the deadline for an appeal has implicated a judge for not telling her she was out of time…………“His honour made no reference to any requirement for leave to ­appeal and appeared to believe the parties had a further seven days in which to file.”…..”

    Well at this stage it looks like Cindy Prior and her lawyer friends are going to be liable for a shitload of cash.

    How good is that…….LOL

  59. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 10:18 am

    Gee………….I’m so glad I took TB’s sound investment advice (not) and sold out of my fossil energy exposure (not)…….LOL

    “A continued rally in oil helped energy names such as Chevron advance. Brent futures settled up more than 4 per cent after a nearly 9 per cent jump on Wednesday after major oil producers agreed to cut output and support prices, the first such move since 2008.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets-live/markets-live-bonds-tank-again-20161201-gt2bje.html

  60. December 2, 2016 10:30 am

    The automatic assumption

    ,,,,Where did I say that was a certainty,,,,

    # ,, chuckle, team-cheerer beat me to it

    ,

    I,,,,dont seek kudos for anything,,,,

    # ,, ROFL, oh yes you did, and both me and teebz rubbed your nose in it

    ,

    destroy,,,,your fragile little ego,,,,

    # ,, yes, yes l did, and all by 9.30am too

    ,

    boo-melb,,,,the rust belt,,,,

    # ,, you`re guzzling your tea too quickly again, hint, ohio today

  61. TB Queensland permalink
    December 2, 2016 10:32 am

    Maybe not so great for those that like bullying, intimidation and that kind of thing

    You mean a commenter here? Surely not?

    That’s a good outcome for people that prefer law and order.

    Law and order was always available on construction sites and still is … and don’t think “intimidation” was/is all one way … in many workplaces …

  62. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 10:35 am

    Ahhhh !………good to see TheBigot has arisen from bed

  63. December 2, 2016 10:55 am

    The,,,,ABCC imposed lawful behavior on the construction industry last time. The same result should be expected this time,,,,

    # ,, chuckle, remind us again of the arrest-record and who all charges were laid against

  64. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 11:22 am

    So TB… you dont think it was all one way… may I ask – beyond being a union delegate a couple of decades ago in the mechanical or mining sector, what is your experience in construction industry industrial relations?

  65. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 11:29 am

    How is that SA experiment going for you TomR ……………LOL

    The sooner we abandon fossil completely the better.

    More renewables is obviously the answer

    http://reneweconomy.com.au/vic-network-fault-causes-outages-in-south-australia-conservatives-blame-renewables-84808/

  66. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 11:37 am

    “The sooner we abandon fossil completely the better.”

    Well if you feel so strongly about it you should march on down to the Parliament and demand disconnection from the interconnector thingy……………LOL

  67. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 12:04 pm

    …and I hope Trump succeeds in restoring some manufacturing to the USA. There’s no particular harm in growth.

    But that doesn’t alter the fact that he’s a racist, misogynist, interventionist, big spending F***WIT,

  68. TB Queensland permalink
    December 2, 2016 12:08 pm

    … what is your experience in construction industry industrial relations?

    Probably more than yours and in more “line roles” … ever actually seen a mine-site BTW?

  69. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 12:51 pm

    Well if you feel so strongly about it you should march on down to the Parliament and demand disconnection from the interconnector thingy

    I AGREE!

    Stop pouring good money after bad. Just invest in renewables.

    Unfortunately, it’s not going to be that simple. SA’s power failures began when we privatised the grid. It was said back then this was a black day for the state. And it was.

    There’s no particular harm in growth.

    ……………………. 😯

    Tell it to Holdens! Abandoned at the time America was investing in their own Manufacturing! Even bush saw the sense in that

    Hockey etal will/should never be forgiven for that!

  70. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 1:23 pm

    Bowen Basin, Groote Eylandt, Gove, Mt Isa, Kununurra, Kalgoorlie, Murrin Murrin. Olympic Dam and of course the Hunter Valley and the Latrobe Valley… among others

    But tell me TB, is the mining industry the construction industry?

  71. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 1:30 pm

    Tell it to Holdens! Abandoned at the time America was investing in their own Manufacturing!

    US has a population 14 times that of Australia, that might have something to do with the viability of the industry.

  72. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 2, 2016 1:30 pm

  73. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 1:38 pm

  74. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 1:39 pm

    If only every man, woman and child in Australia would buy a car every year, we might be able to sustain a viable vehicle manufacturing industry!

  75. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 1:55 pm

    that might have something to do with the viability of the industry.

    Or the fact that the Government were prepared to invest in it.

    Holden WERE viable, they had the specific numbers that showed how.

    hockey etal weren’t prepared to do what bush, Obama and now trump seem willing to do.

    Invest in their manufacturing capabilities.

    Yes Simba. see what happens when you privatise.

  76. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 2:01 pm

  77. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 2:06 pm

    So do you think the viability of a vehicle manufacturing industry servicing a population of 24 mill, is likely to be more or less viable than one servicing over 320 mill?

  78. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 2, 2016 2:17 pm

    Hockey etal will/should never be forgiven for that!

    What happened is that after Ford left under Gillard, Holden went to the new govt and asked for even more money. Hockey told them what was legislated until 2020 was all they were going to get. Local car sales went from 25% in 2006 to only 10% of the market by 2013. It was dead when Abbott won govt.

    By the way subsidies are still available. You can apply if you want

    https://www.business.gov.au/assistance/automotive-transformation-scheme

    The Automotive Transformation Scheme (ATS) commenced on 1 January 2011 and will run until 31 December 2020. It aims to encourage competitive investment, innovation and economic sustainability in the Australian automotive industry.

    The ATS will achieve this in a way that:

    improves environmental outcomes and
    promotes the development of workforce skills.

  79. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 2:58 pm

    “So do you think”

    Actually, it was Detroit who did the thinking there yomm, it was their numbers that took into consideration the extremely high dollar that tools like nil ignore

  80. TB Queensland permalink
    December 2, 2016 2:59 pm

    But tell me TB, is the mining industry the construction industry?

    Don’t patronise me with you’re childishly stupid questions …

    That’s a good outcome for people that prefer law and order.

    “””Law and order was always available on construction sites and still is … and don’t think “intimidation” was/is all one way … in many workplaces …”””

    Your reply to my challenge … attack the commenter not the comment … divert the statement to one of personal attack/defence …

    … what is your experience in construction industry industrial relations?

    That really has nothing to do with me challenging YOUR original statement …

    That’s a good outcome for people that prefer law and order.

    And I reiterate … law and order has always been available …

    The Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy industries are not the Wild West as you and others attempt to portray … but the big businesses (usually multi-nationals) abhor being challenged … better to lock up the challengers under arbitrary legislation than via the court system …

    ie target the challenger (read commenter) not the deal with the challenge (comment) …

    https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=construction+company+breaches+safety+law+

  81. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 2, 2016 3:07 pm

    it was their numbers that took into consideration the extremely high dollar that tools like nil ignore

    Excuses excuses. They made crap that nobody wanted to buy. They only had 10% of the market in 2013. It fell even further after that. Telling lies helps nobody. We need to find out why people did not want to buy Aussie made cars.

  82. TB Queensland permalink
    December 2, 2016 3:11 pm

    So do you think the viability of a vehicle manufacturing industry servicing a population of 24 mill, is likely to be more or less viable than one servicing over 320 mill?

    Whaaat? Other industries are viable in Australia’s 24 million+ population … many with subsidies …

    … let’s just stop everything … flog the place off to China and all become millionaires on Norfolk Island … well 400 of us anyway …

    Viability depends on the size of the business servicing the market …

    … but in the case of vehicle manufacturing it leads to technical and production innovation (remember that word?) for other industries too … and … in times of war … can be quickly converted into manufacturing military matériel …

    People learn trades and other skills and knowledge in the auto manufacturing industry that can be transferred to a wide range of other industries … a bit like MINING industry skills being transferred to large civil engineering CONSTRUCTION sites …

  83. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 2, 2016 3:30 pm

    Whaaat? Other industries are viable in Australia’s 24 million+ population … many with subsidies …

    This did not help

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/federal-court-rules-against-toyota-costcutting-move/story-fn59noo3-1226781579259

    A FEDERAL Court judge has blocked Toyota from seeking employees’ votes on a new package which would cut entitlements, ruling the auto giant had breached the Fair Work Act.

    Also Toyota wanted to cut the 3 week Christmas shutdown to 10 days which is normal. The Unions were against this.

    If there are any people who deserve to lose their jobs it is the people who work for Toyota. Holden, Ford because they did nothing to help the companies employing them

  84. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 3:32 pm

    Yea, the treasurer telling our major manufacturing arm to fuck off is ‘excuses, excuses ‘

  85. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 2, 2016 3:36 pm

    Like i said, telling lies helps nobody . TomR you believe what you want to believe.

  86. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 3:43 pm

    “Viability depends on the size of the business servicing the market …”

    Mmmmmmmmmmm………………!

    Well you’ve got that completely arse about.

    Large business + small/shrinking market = Liquidation

    Just as ToM is pointing out

  87. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 3:44 pm

    I trust that TomR and TB drive Australian made vehicle.

    I certainly wouldn’t anymore

  88. Walrus permalink
    December 2, 2016 3:45 pm

    “If there are any people who deserve to lose their jobs it is the people who work for Toyota. Holden, Ford because they did nothing to help the companies employing them”

    Possibly to get the redundancy package

  89. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 4:04 pm

    Hardly patronising TB, but you seemed to have some knowledge (beyond what’s in the media) when you made your comment. I was enquiring what direct experience you had that would illustrate this.

    Does the ABCC apply to hose other industries”?

  90. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 2, 2016 4:28 pm

    Possibly to get the redundancy package

    We gave these deadbeats billions of dollars in subsidies. All they did is vote for themselves higher wages and better conditions. Management and workers.

    We are now supposed to feel sorry for these people who abused the money they were given.

  91. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 4:35 pm

    I’ve spoken to people that see a redundancy as their retirement plan.

    Uncapped redundancy payments can have a negative effect on people’s commitment to the success of their employer

  92. December 2, 2016 7:49 pm

    Everybody is stuck in their echo chamber today!

    Yes softcocks (l noticed that `you` didn`t notice)

    talkbull,,,,Islander who comes here to pick fruit during the season and is sending that money back to his village .. some of the poorest countries in the world .. $5100 on average for each 6-month season these Pacific Islanders are sending back to their villages,,,,

    # ,, team-cheerers still haven`t understood that talkbull is bragging about his $3/hour visa-slaves, and braying-media are down playing it.

    # ,, zombie-cheerers haven`t understood that blib missed it too, the so-called `alternative` leader, so much for the team that so-called `defends` the `worker`, where are the onions too.

    (tho l did throw a big, fat, juicy `outrage` in blubbers direction too)

    (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-;

  93. TB Queensland permalink
    December 2, 2016 8:00 pm

    “Viability depends on the size of the business servicing the market …”

    Well you’ve got that completely arse about

    What do you mean … ?

    “Viability depends on the size of the market servicing the business …” ?

    er, competition is (supposed to be) a cornerstone of capitalism …

    And different sized businesses service different sections of the market … and I’m very happy with my Hyundai … pity that GM only build trucks!

    The auto manufacturing industry misread the Aussie market a decade a go (or more) … but it could still have been supported … now we have nothing and thousands of people with special expertise drawing the dole … the Multiplier Effect overwhelmed the subsidisation …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Hardly patronising TB, but you seemed to have some knowledge (beyond what’s in the media) when you made your comment. I was enquiring what direct experience you had that would illustrate this.

    What BS … and what’s amusing is that you play to the “gallery” (the people who read this blog but don’t comment) … or that neo-politics as degenerated (trickled down) to this basic level …

    Does the ABCC apply to hose other industries”?

    There you go again … a shimples question … the CFMEU is the most powerful union in the country … your Tory Party wants to stamp it out so that it can run riot!

    And FYI the CFMEU has driven me up the wall more than once … but industries without a union is like a clock with a broken pendulum … it eventually stops!

    What you desire is no unions at all … so business can get on with the job … I get that … but it fogs your focus …

    … those people in your workplace are only there for one reason (well a few more but it boils down to this) … and surprise, surprise, its not to make you, or your employer a profit …

    … it’s to feed and educate their children, have a family and few friends they can celebrate life goals with and pay their mortgage and make sure they can retire with dignity … and hope their children are better off than they have been!

    And strangely************** enough that’s the message I’ve heard in over 100 countries … not just the poor sods in the ADF or on FIFO mine sites or other consultants, or managers, or supervisors, or tradies … 1st world, 2nd world, 3rd world!

    They ALL know they are being screwed … problem is they don’t know who by … neither did the Germans in 1930 …

    And as a working class lad … who … well WGAF!

    I’ll ensure my lot are safe!

  94. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 8:08 pm

    I’ve spoken to people that see a redundancy as their retirement plan.

    I’ve got friends who were made redundant from Holdens

    They will never work again. They have spent 30 years working on a factory line, building world leading automobiles, but at over 50, nobody will take them and retrain them.

    That’s even IF there was a job to retrain them to.

    “Would you like fries with that”?

  95. December 2, 2016 8:40 pm

    “building world leading automobiles”

    That’s not really the case though, is it. They were struggling to hold 10% of the market here in Australia. So”world leading” is a bit mis-leading, don’t you agree?

  96. December 2, 2016 8:56 pm

    By the way, (less than) ten percent includes all the imported models. The locally produced Commodore and locally assembled Cruze total a lot less than that.

  97. TB Queensland permalink
    December 2, 2016 8:57 pm

    That’s not really the case though, is it. They were struggling to hold 10% of the market here in Australia. So”world leading” is a bit mis-leading, don’t you agree?

    Iggorance is bliss … live or die with it … we didn’t invent your world … but by Christ we support it!

    GIVEN THE CHANCE!

  98. December 2, 2016 9:05 pm

    Do you have a point?

  99. Tom R permalink
    December 2, 2016 9:26 pm

    Do you have a point?

    Do you?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden#Exports

  100. December 2, 2016 9:33 pm

    “Do you?”

    Yes. Holden exported a small number of cars, even compared to its local production. They were not “world leading automobiles” by any possible measure.

  101. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 2, 2016 9:51 pm

    Dear politicians. Parliament is not your safe space
    https://noplaceforsheep.com/2016/12/02/parliament-is-not-your-safe-space/

    …Deputy Opposition Leader Tanya Plibersek advised citizens that if we wish to engage in the democratic process, we need to get ourselves elected. This remark seems to indicate that the democratic process belongs to politicians: citizens, once we’ve elected them, are excluded.

    On reflection, this is pretty much what democracy has become in Australia. We elect a government based on many factors, among them promises made by candidates. Government then disregards the very undertakings that enabled their ascendance, and voters are thus excised from the “democratic” process. Plibersek isn’t that far off the mark. Citizens participate only insofar as we vote. After that, we do as we’re told.

    Protesters are invariably described in pejorative terms, as if protest in itself is regarded as contemptible by politicians…

    Immigration officials routinely ignore medical advice on detainees, inquest told
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/02/immigration-officials-routinely-ignore-medical-advice-on-detainees-inquest-told?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

  102. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 2, 2016 10:20 pm

    … those people in your workplace are only there for one reason (well a few more but it boils down to this) … and surprise, surprise, its not to make you, or your employer a profit …
    … it’s to feed and educate their children, have a family and few friends they can celebrate life goals with and pay their mortgage and make sure they can retire with dignity … and hope their children are better off than they have been!
    And strangely************** enough that’s the message I’ve heard in over 100 countries … not just the poor sods in the ADF or on FIFO mine sites or other consultants, or managers, or supervisors, or tradies … 1st world, 2nd world, 3rd world!
    They ALL know they are being screwed … problem is they don’t know who by … neither did the Germans in 1930 …

    You’re right TB, they must be importing the kool aid by the megalitre these days.

    There is something very wrong if workers, the people who are selling their labour for a weekly pittance compared to the owners & managers, need to have the business’ goals first and foremost on their minds.

    Fair enough if they get something out of the business like shares and ownership but when they are told on any given day that they are a dime a dozen and can never have job security for the loyalty that they show to the business.

    Sorry, but they just don’t get paid enough for that.

    And just as workers need to re-educate and upgrade their skills to get jobs after redundancy, so must businesses like the dying fossil fuel industry. Taxpayers don’t exist to keep rent seeking private enterprise on a cash drip feed, they exist to fund the business of government eg infrastructure etc not to funnel funds into the pollies mates.

    Privatisation is nothing but stealing from ordinary people to ‘trickle up’ to the already wealthy.

    The time is ripe for another revolution.

  103. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 2, 2016 10:22 pm

    I’ve got friends who were made redundant from Holdens

    Why did Ford leave? They were given all the money they wanted.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-27/maccallum-ford-closure/4714806

    Another kick in the guts for Julia Gillard and her government: Ford is to close its Australian manufacturing operation, putting some 1,200 employees out of work with further spin offs for suppliers and for the city of Geelong.

  104. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 2, 2016 10:59 pm

    What you desire is no unions at all …

    TB, that is just complete crap, you’re now just making stuff up.

    I’ve never said any thinking like that. And now you’re suggesting that a preference for lawful behaviour on construction sites is equivalent to not wanting unions!

    Don’t you think unions are capable of complying with the law?

  105. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 3, 2016 1:08 am

  106. December 3, 2016 1:41 am

    guardian,,,,It`s time for our leaders to recognise that they can`t have a massive new coalmine and a healthy reef,,,,

    # ,, l think they did choose armchair, and it wasn`t the reef/s (yes, l suspect ningaloo will probably end-up with similar/same result as barrier) l have always thought john-w inserted up george-w`s arse and championing `denial` over kyoto was probably the great missed window of opportunity. As we `denied` it, china/others will also. l reckon it is now `too-late`, and the next ocean heat/acid event will finish the barrier off, as there probably won`t be a cyclone handy to save it.

    ,,,,What you desire is no unions at all,,,,

    # ,, of course he does, the continual and repedetive spouting of onion-panic definitely makes that his implied position, along with his deafening silence on boardroom greed and worker and publics deaths. Didn`t you notice he didn`t dare make a squeak when l pointed-out the recent 3-week period business killed 5-workers and 4-public at the fun-park, while onions killed none. He even failed to run his `pretend-feminista` routine for the female visa-slave that had never done construction before and plunged to her death on the west-coast.

    # ,, He is a big fan of this,

    blubbering,,,,That`s why I recommend clients only to engage casuals,,,,

    # ,, advice, which in many manufacturing business, has been the equivalent of the business putting the shotgun in their mouth and discharging both barrels.

  107. December 3, 2016 3:09 am

    >From behind the 8-ball,

    ,,,,China has been on the Internet intermittently since May 1989 and on a permanent basis since 20 April 1994. In 2008 China became the largest population on the Internet,,,,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_China

    # ,, while in 1996, our visionless cnuts flogged-off telecom

    ,

    ,,,,South Korea is the world leader in Internet connectivity, having the world’s fastest average internet connection speed. About 45 million people or 92.4% of the population are Internet users, this shows how the nation has a substantial relationship with their digital space. It has consistently ranked first worldwide in the UN ICT Development Index since it launched. The government established policies and programs that facilitated the rapid expansion and use of broadband,,,,

    ,,,,By 2005, it was the first country to complete the conversion from dial-up to broadband. It also has the cheapest, fastest broadband in the world. Now there are experiments with speeds of 1 Gigabit per second. Additionally, in 2005 96.8% of South Korean mobile phones had Internet access,,,,

    # ,, we are safely a decade behind, thank dog we have our great wall of copper to protect us

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_South_Korea

  108. TB Queensland permalink
    December 3, 2016 9:03 am

    This is a major part of our revenue problem …

    This country is being gang raped by multi-millionaires …

    The second is the government’s long-overdue concession that something is very, very wrong with the amount of revenue it collects from offshore gasfields.

    As campaigners at the Tax Justice Network have been pointing out for a long time, there’s something amiss when Australia will become the world’s largest gas exporter in 2020 and is forecast in that year to get just $800m in revenue for its resource, while Qatar – the country we will be overtaking – will be getting $26bn.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/03/yes-malcolm-turnbull-youve-got-things-done-youve-tidied-your-sock-drawer

  109. TB Queensland permalink
    December 3, 2016 9:15 am

    Don’t you think unions are capable of complying with the law?

    There you go again … leading questions a child could see through … not sure whether that’s an attempt to play psychology, simply naïve, or ignorant arrogance … whatever it is, its silly … give it a rest …

    Or, go back to your original comment and my reply …

    ToM: That’s a good outcome for people that prefer law and order.

    TB: Law and order was always available on construction sites and still is … and don’t think “intimidation” was/is all one way … in many workplaces …

  110. December 3, 2016 9:42 am

    (Trump picks retired Marine Gen. James Mattis for secretary of defense)

    I Served With James Mattis. Here’s What I Learned From Him

    ‘To Marines, Gen. James Mattis is the finest of our tribal elders. The rest of the world, very soon, will know how truly gifted he is.’

  111. December 3, 2016 9:58 am

    Just like some around here:

    ‘Gitmo Prisoners ‘Thought It Was the End of the World’ on Election Night, Asked for Tranquilizers

  112. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 3, 2016 11:21 am

    This is a major part of our revenue problem …

    We don’t have a revenue problem we have a spending problem. If the govt cut spending by 10% the budget would be in surplus.

  113. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 3, 2016 11:44 am

    But TB, you neglect to address when I’ve ever suggested that I desire no unions at all.

    That simply isn’t true, and because I say that I prefer lawful behaviour on construction sites, you think you’re entitled to interpret that as me wishing to eliminate unions.

    That’s just exactly the type of crap you accuse others of.

  114. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 3, 2016 12:48 pm

    We don’t have a revenue problem we have a spending problem.

    What we have is unsustainable population growth in the name of productivity – notice how quiet business is as they laugh into their scotch about how easy it is to hoodwink the public while they go about a 457 visa deluge of skilled, unskilled workers into the country. The govt hypocrites do their dirty work for them by demonising a few tawdry boat arrivals of desperates fleeing the wars we create, the business of torturing, tormenting, brutalising and murdering a few innocents in nauru is front page for a reason – to stop people thinking about the sleight of hand going on behind it all. Racism and bigotry R us

    With all this growth in 457’s there is infrastructure needed to support the population and housing and transport needed to accomodate them [housing, like that;s not an issue!] These people are keeping wage and employment [f/t jobs for australians] growth down in this country and the billionaires who bring them in by the plane load aren’t even paying any tax! Why does no-one look into the illegal activities of the work hire companies who seem to be nothing but thugs and criminals?

    Union busting has become the only govt policy to come out of two terms of liberal govts the rest has been an absolute and undeniable shambles of incompetence and maladministration. Not that the media will ever put any of it on the front page like they did with the the hyper distortions of the gillard era.

    Australia does not have a spending problem, we have a population that enjoys a decent standard of living and wish to continue with it. Too many people are being given too much welfare and it’s not the pensioners, corporate welfare needs to be reined in, it has become official corruption with govt ministers giving the wealth of the country away for the promise of a job in their organisation after politics, after the voters are sick and tired of them, they still have their snouts welded to the trough. We have wealthy people who don’t pay enough tax and wealthier companies ripping out the resources, destroying the country at giveaway prices. politicians of both parties are complicit in it all.

    Australia has a revenue problem and people are angry about what corporate australia is getting away with and what the libs are gifting them while in administration.

  115. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 3, 2016 12:50 pm

    oops, forgot to end the italics after quoting neil 😕

  116. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 3, 2016 1:18 pm

  117. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 3, 2016 1:26 pm

    AO you lost it for me when your quote said this

    he govt hypocrites do their dirty work for them by demonising a few tawdry boat arrivals of desperates fleeing the wars we create

    They are not few. In May 2013 we got 5,000 boat arrivals.That equals approx 50,000/year and could easily double.

    And i suspect they are not desperate. They come here for a better life. Why do you think the Brits up and left the EU? They are being swamped by greedy Eastern Europeans who do not want to live in the country they were born. Rather than fight for better working conditions they leave their parents and live in countries where other people fought for better working conditions.

    The Eastern Europeans make me sick. No wonder Britain left the EU.

  118. TB Queensland permalink
    December 3, 2016 2:59 pm

    That’s just exactly the type of crap you accuse others of.

    So in summary:

    ToM

    You don’t like unions who big business can’t control but special legislation can(?) … particularly the CFMEU …

    (Its good to know you don’t want to get rid of unions tho’ … a lot of people here would be surprised at that statement … )

    TB

    If there is unlawful behaviour on ANY workplace site … then we already have a legal system to deal with it … eg stealing, intimidating language and/or behaviour, stalking, threats of violence etc etc … are all criminal acts … by either party or both!

    Why don’t we have a Mining Commissioner ?… a Forestry Commissioner? … or Energy Commissioner? … or Retail? … or Metal Trades? … or Hospitality? … Education? … Health?

    I could hazard a couple of guesses … 🙂

  119. TB Queensland permalink
    December 3, 2016 6:32 pm

    Want a Plebiscite? (Referendum preferably!)

    This is what the People should have a say in!

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/03/adani-coal-mine-green-groups-fume-over-plan-for-1b-federal-loan

    And here we are with the Tories whining about having “no money” …

    Imagine what we could do with a $1bn loan for renewable energy?

  120. December 3, 2016 7:45 pm

    guardian,,,,The money that can be reaped from multinationals paying their fair share of taxes could be more than $400bn over the next 20 years, according to the Tax Justice Network`s calculations,,,,

    ,,,,Qatar $26-Billion,,,,(verses)

    ,,,,Australia $800-Million,,,,

    # ,, l`ve been seeing this kind of stuff as `treason` teebz, there can be no explanation for `any` country throwing away these sums of money, in this case $25-Billion.

    # ,, lt also shows that those dedicated to echo chambers are true imbeciles too, with no interest in their own kids ability to build a future. lt won`t matter how many uni-degrees they have if govt continually throws away every opportunity available and/or the nations funds to (re)develop. #yaaay.team

    guardian,,,,The low-tax trickle-down economics of the US and the UK must bear at least some of the blame for the rising inequality and the voter backlash that has pushed politics in those countries,,,,

  121. December 3, 2016 8:21 pm

    “Imagine what we could do with a $1bn loan for renewable energy?”

    Waste it?

  122. December 4, 2016 1:17 am

    lt is enough to rattle one`s cubicle!

    # ,, you`re guzzling your tea too quickly again, hint, ohio today

    # ,, correction,,,,hint, indiana today,,,,

    nyti,,,,`I don`t want them moving out of the country without consequences,` Mr. Trump said, even if that means angering the free-market-oriented Republicans he beat in the primaries but will have to work with on Capitol Hill,,,,

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/business/economy/trump-carrier-pence-jobs.html?_r=0

    nyti,,,,`The free market has been sorting it out and America`s been losing,` Mr. Pence added,,,,

    ,,,,as Mr. Trump interjected, `Every time, every time`,,,,

    # ,, for those not up to speed, during the repug primaries the-ronald complained along the lines of ,,,,america has spent 6-TRILLION in the middle-east during the last 15-years with nothing to show for it. l could have rebuilt the country TWICE for that money,,,,(#yes-teabags-paraphrased)

    nyti,,,,The long-promised call from Donald J. Trump to the heating and cooling giant Carrier came early one morning about a week after the election, when he unexpectedly won the industrial heartland.

    The president-elect warned Gregory Hayes, the chief executive of Carrier`s parent, United Technologies, that he had to find a way to save a substantial share of the jobs it had vowed to move to Mexico, or he would face the wrath of the incoming administration.

    On Thursday, as he toured the factory floor here to take credit for saving roughly half of the 2,000 jobs Indiana stood to lose,

    Mr. Trump sent a message to other businesses as well that he intended to follow through on his pledges to impose stiff tariffs on imports from companies that move production overseas and ship their products back to the United States.

    `This is the way it`s going to be,` Mr. Trump said in an interview with The New York Times.

    `Corporate America is going to have to understand that we have to take care of our workers also.`

    Mr. Trump was accompanied by his vice president-elect, Mike Pence, who is currently Indiana`s governor. He was in the room at Trump Tower when the president-elect placed his initial call to Mr. Hayes, and he was the one who sealed the deal with the chief executive with a handshake in the building on Monday,,,,

    boo-melb,,,,The teabagz supporters here must be delighted with Trump .. the way he is clearly so non teabag .. appointing various billionaire bankers to look after the rust belt. That should work,,,,

    # ,, Glad you approve. Chortle. (-:

    # ,, lt`s not bad either, the-ronald is already making gains/deals `before` he even takes office.

  123. TB Queensland permalink
    December 4, 2016 9:39 am

    Waste it?

    I did say “imagine” … difficult for some I know … actually it doesn’t take much imagination at all …

  124. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 4, 2016 10:54 am

    Yep, if 70km x 70km of solar panels were built, it would supply all Australia’s energy needs, but the cost of the power would be double and battery technology doesn’t store enough for nights.

  125. December 4, 2016 11:02 am

    if,,,,70km x 70km of solar panels were built,,,,

    # ,, both wrong and DUMB

    and,,,,battery technology doesn`t store enough for nights,,,,

    # ,, wrong again, told`ya ages ago China has already got the battery-tech

  126. December 4, 2016 11:51 am

    Imagine that.

    “However, there have been criticisms of the project. This solar farm uses a significant amount of water. “An estimated one liter of water is used to clean each panel. Water consumed to clean the eventual 5.2 million panels built will be colossal for a country that is fast becoming water stressed,” says China Dialogue. “Currently, 30 people take 10 to 15 days to clean the entire 400,000 cells.” Additionally, the massive project has drastically increased activity in the area and required lots of new infrastructure, which will disturb a once-pristine desert environment, home to a rich diversity of wildlife.”

  127. TB Queensland permalink
    December 4, 2016 4:23 pm

    Yep, if 70km x 70km of solar panels …

    Silly me … I should have included photos of other sources of renewable energy?

    http://image.slidesharecdn.com/mainformofrenewableenergyresources-150714073841-lva1-app6892/95/main-form-of-renewable-energy-resources-16-638.jpg?cb=1436859669

    I thought one photo might stir the imagination of some … ah well …

    Energy storage is still a problem … but research needs money … CSIRO has had how much funding slashed?

    And new products are being found constantly … you obviously have no faith in the human ability to INNOVATE! 😉

  128. TB Queensland permalink
    December 4, 2016 4:40 pm

    Imagine that.

    Imagine if you got out more … even ToM would know this … he’s been to a couple of mine-sites …

    http://environmentvictoria.org.au/our-campaigns/safe-climate/coal-water-use/

  129. TB Queensland permalink
    December 4, 2016 4:50 pm

    But wait! There’s more …

    http://www.csiro.au/en/Research/EF/Areas/Energy-storage

    … and here’s a quick history lesson in power … it takes patience, determination, time, money and INNOVATION to develop ideas and dreams …

  130. TB Queensland permalink
    December 4, 2016 5:10 pm

    INNOVATION? Or what!

  131. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 4, 2016 5:52 pm

    Australia will lose triple-A credit rating, says former Liberal leader John Hewson
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/04/australia-will-lose-triple-a-credit-rating-says-former-liberal-leader-john-hewson?CMP=share_btn_tw

    ‘It’s just a question of timing,’ Hewson warns as Labor pushes negative gearing reform as a budget fix…

    Farmer survey reveals concern, shifting attitudes on climate change
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-29/climate-change-farmer-survey/8075542#.WEOlIOuWX5M.twitter

    …”Five or six years ago, I would have said maybe 10 per cent of farmers were supportive of climate change and the rest agnostic or whatever you’d like to call it. Now it’s up around 60 per cent,” he said….

    And leave the sharks alone!

    Sea Shepherd Slams the NSW Government’s Knee Jerk Reaction to Shark Encounters on the Northern NSW Coast
    https://www.seashepherd.org.au/news-and-commentary/commentary/sea-shepherd-slams-the-nsw-government-s-knee-jerk-reaction-to-shark-encounters-on-the-northern-nsw-coast.html

    …Jef Hansen Managing Director of Sea Shepherd Australia further states:

    “Any surfer calling for lethal shark mitigation is not a surfer, they have lost their connection to the ocean. The ocean is not a wave pool, it is a natural and wild marine environment and responsible and possible for our very existence on land. The arrogance of supporting lethal (false-sense) shark mitigation, is a complete disregard for our children’s future on this planet. This anthropocentric and idiotic mentality is the reason why our planet is in the state it is in today.”…

  132. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 4, 2016 6:21 pm

    Australia will lose triple-A credit rating, says former Liberal leader John Hewson

    Yep Hewson is right. We need to cut spending yesterday but it is not going to happen.

  133. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 4, 2016 6:22 pm

    I should have included photos of other sources of renewable energy?</i?

    So where do we build that dam TB? Do you recall the last time there was a proposal to build that form of renewable energy in Australia?

  134. TB Queensland permalink
    December 4, 2016 7:07 pm

    ToM, no, but … the existing structures are sources of renewable energy … (alternative to the solar power you jumped on) …

    While the Snowy Mountains Scheme is the largest, there are more than 100 operating hydropower plants Australia. They are typically located in areas with high rainfall and elevation, with the majority in New South Wales, Victoria and Tasmania. Hydroelectric power provides almost 1/5 of the world’s electricity.Jan 30, 2015

    Maybe we need to invest a spare $1bn to redevelop and/or develop new hydro schemes … or simply look at generating renewable energy sources more suitable to one of the driest continents in the world … we need to INNOVATE!

    Not just mouth the fkn words! – This government is like a comic book … Superman did not exist! Nor does the Cay Man!

    The Emperor has no ACTION just WORDS … we are still being SCREWED by the Robber Barons!

  135. TB Queensland permalink
    December 4, 2016 7:08 pm

    The last bits mine OK …

  136. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 4, 2016 7:29 pm

    TB…So existing hydro and dams can produce more energy than thwy do at present?

  137. December 4, 2016 9:06 pm

    The water/cleaning issue that tinfoil`osy has posted may well be still true for that particular site, but it is `old-hat` now. Doco`s have already been on with panels mounted within a `rail-system` and automatic panel cleaning robots clean them. Don`t know the water usage(if) tho either. The robot that runs around the rail-system has a mechanism that works similar to a `flattened-out` version of the A380(jet) cleaners at airports, (for those that have seen them.) Really you lot are arguing the Save-the-grid position, which will eventually disappear.

  138. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 5, 2016 12:46 am

    Senior ABC staff say Michelle Guthrie ‘out of her depth’
    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/media/2016/12/03/senior-abc-staff-say-michelle-guthrie-out-her-depth/14806836004053

    …There are many reasons the ABC comes up in survey after survey as the country’s most trusted institution. Robyn Williams, it is fair to say, is one of them.

    The list of honours and achievements he has collected over more than 40 years with the national broadcaster’s science unit is impressive…

    …On Wednesday this week, Williams decided to speak out about the ABC’s decision to axe its flagship science television program, Catalyst. This is some of what he said in a prepared statement, which he arranged to have distributed by one of the broadcaster’s main staff unions:

    “This week up to 17 Catalyst staff will leave the building, one of the top teams in the world dedicated to science communication, with not a farewell, a handshake or a stale biscuit – like felons out onto the street.

    “This effectively halves the number of science journalists working in Australia.”

    Williams was unsparing of those who decided to can the show, saying the “ABC TV; its bosses responsible for this travesty are morally and spiritually bankrupt…”

    He did not name the “bosses” concerned. The ABC’s director of television is Richard Finlayson, but ultimately the buck stops with the broadcaster’s new managing director, Michelle Guthrie…

    This is the most dangerous time for our planet : Stephen Hawking
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/01/stephen-hawking-dangerous-time-planet-inequality?CMP=share_btn_tw

    …For me, the really concerning aspect of this is that now, more than at any time in our history, our species needs to work together. We face awesome environmental challenges: climate change, food production, overpopulation, the decimation of other species, epidemic disease, acidification of the oceans.

    Together, they are a reminder that we are at the most dangerous moment in the development of humanity. We now have the technology to destroy the planet on which we live, but have not yet developed the ability to escape it. Perhaps in a few hundred years, we will have established human colonies amid the stars, but right now we only have one planet, and we need to work together to protect it…

  139. December 5, 2016 3:32 am

    satpap,,,,In the absence of any other explanation, people are increasingly wondering whether Guthrie is really in charge, or whether in the absence of a firm hand, senior managers are making decisions to the benefit of their personal fiefdoms,,,,

    ,,,,The Catalyst decision in particular fuels that belief,,,,

    ,,,,One very senior person with deep knowledge of it reckoned there were forces gunning for the show before Guthrie came on board, just waiting for the departure of Scott and, particularly, Stanley. Stanley, the woman who would know best, won`t comment about that,,,,

    ,,,,Michelle Guthrie is a lawyer by training, with a 20-year history in media, most of it outside Australia and most of it within the Murdoch empire,,,,

    # ,, this post strikes me as guthrie is promoted beyond her capability and seems to be making decisions based on a `cost-per-viewer-minute` or other `corporate-like` metric which doesn`t fit the `plug-the-gap` mission of my abc.

    satpap,,,,Most recently she worked for Google, but always on the business side, not the creative, content side,,,,

    # ,, probably doesn`t have a clue on identifying `viewer-markets` or understanding `ratings` either. Just sounds like somebody running the junior managers playbook to me.

    stapap,,,,get ABC content out on the widest possible range of platforms, and to implement a flatter structure across the ABC`s 17 divisions to get greater integration. She spoke about the need for more co-operation with other media, particularly SBS, and the outsourcing of some functions,,,,

    # ,, more junior managers playbook.

    ,,,,Guthrie did not mention Lateline, but chose the example of another big ABC program, Foreign Correspondent. Simons brought her back to the point of the question:,,,,

    ,,,,would Lateline be part of next year`s programming line up?,,,,

    ,,,,`I`ve given you the answer,` Guthrie said. She hadn`t. Worse, the implication of her evasion was taken to be that both programs were for the chop,,,,

    # ,, what`s the point of having crap management if you can`t display it across multiple topics.

    satpap,,,,As a board member, Stanley would be intimately aware of the travails at Catalyst. These relate to two segments from one reporter, Maryanne Demasi,,,,

    # ,, the demasi critter didn`t help, and maybe should have got the boot, but throwing the whole catalyst outfit over the cliff is just crap management of clueless dill/s, l don`t think there is any other aussie-made science program on free-to-air.

  140. Shane in QLD permalink
    December 5, 2016 5:35 am

    Tony:
    Here’s a link that affects more workers than the total union membership in Australia. This is just this mornings. The rorts and loopholes and theft by the dishonest once again shown to be far more prevalent in business.

  141. Tom R permalink
    December 5, 2016 7:28 am

    HAHAHAHAHAHHA

    The Turnbull government has left open the option of reinstating a form of carbon trading in the electricity sector, allowing its looming review of the Direct Action climate policy to consider policy mechanisms to reduce emissions on a “sector-by-sector basis”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/05/direct-action-review-coalition-leaves-carbon-trading-option-open?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

    This, hot on the heels of talk of reviving the “Malaysian Solution” lol

    I also see that the Greens managed to get their extra money for land care from money saved from the soon to be axed “Green Army”. So, not “extra” money at all.

    A signature environmental policy of the Abbott government, the Green Army, will be abolished at this month’s mid-year federal budget update, saving more than $350 million.

    The decision was taken by the budget razor gang, the Expenditure Review Committee, more than a week ago but the savings were used to cover the extra $100 million the government promised to give to Landcare as part of last week’s deal with the Greens to pass legislation for the backpacker tax.

    http://www.afr.com/news/tony-abbotts-green-army-gets-its-marching-orders-20161203-gt3eg2

    So the Green Army is going the way of the “Women of substance” maternity leave lie. Good. What’s the bet the landcare cash is going to go to WA farmers to help prop up votes in the upcoming election. You need to specify Greenies, else the libs will just screw you over.

  142. Tom R permalink
    December 5, 2016 7:31 am

    From ao’s abc story

    The previous managing director, Mark Scott, for example, endured a fair measure of controversy during his 10-year tenure, yet is now looked upon fondly by most.

    scott was an abomination, who saw over the first raft of abc hamstringing. To look back on him fondly is a joke.

    Just because guthrie is more obvious, the fix came in with him. Trash the abc’s reputation so badly that nobody cares if it goes in the end.

  143. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 5, 2016 9:12 am

    …Here’s a link that affects more workers than the total union membership in Australia. This is just this mornings. The rorts and loopholes and theft by the dishonest once again shown to be far more prevalent in business…

    I never doubted it shane 😆

    When greedy employers are encouraged to think of and treat their employees as lesser people, to disrespect them in an adversarial system [lazy, dumb, useless etc] as many do [some need no encouragement], thieving from them will always be the outcome. What’s more they think they are the smart ones! They also rip off their clients as much as they possibly can.

    Greed is good, right? god wants you to be wealthy and successful, the important people of the town come to you when you hit the big time!

  144. TB Queensland permalink
    December 5, 2016 9:52 am

    What would happen if we had no unions in Australia?

    One third of workers missing out on super, report finds

    Nearly one in three workers are being dudded an average of $1500 a year by employers failing to pay compulsory superannuation, a new report claims.

    Under the law, employers must contribute 9.5 per cent into the superannuation account of every worker over the age of 18 and earning more than $450 a month.

    But according to the analysis of ATO and ABS data, conducted by Industry Super Australia and Cbus, around 2.4 million workers missed out on $3.6 billion in payments in 2013-14. That equates to $1489, or almost four months of super for the average worker.

    Younger workers, low-income earners and workers in the construction, hospitality and cleaning industries were most likely to miss out, and small and medium-sized businesses were the most likely to be the culprits.

    — Frank Chung

  145. TB Queensland permalink
    December 5, 2016 9:55 am

    Ah … same story … Shane … great minds!

  146. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 5, 2016 10:06 am

    What would happen if we had no unions in Australia?

    The ALP would run out of hacks?

  147. TB Queensland permalink
    December 5, 2016 10:06 am

    This government couldn’t manage a national economy if it was paid to … oh, wait!

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/05/australia-is-blowing-its-carbon-budget-projections-reveal

    Oh! The hypocrisy of the money midgets …

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/05/direct-action-review-coalition-leaves-carbon-trading-option-open

  148. TB Queensland permalink
    December 5, 2016 10:07 am

    The ALP would run out of hacks?

    The Tories would run riot!

  149. TB Queensland permalink
    December 5, 2016 10:08 am

    Or should I have said the right-whinger business funded HACKS would run riot …

  150. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 5, 2016 10:11 am

    TomR

    Why do you blame Hockey for Holden leaving but say nothing when Ford left under Gillard. It was Ford leaving that was the final nail in the coffin for the car industry.

  151. December 5, 2016 10:50 am

    Shane, the crux of that report is that employers aren’t paying super on amounts salary-sacrificed by employees. This is described in those reports as a ‘loophole’, but Matt Linden from Industry Super Australia admits it’s perfectly legal. saying “the law currently allows it”.

    So those employers are paying the correct amount of super, but industry super funds don’t like it.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m completely against employers deliberately paying the incorrect amount of super – or withholding it completely.. That would be illegal and should be punished.

    Resident CPA Walrus might have thoughts on this subject too.

  152. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 5, 2016 11:39 am

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/babies/victorian-government-releases-list-of-banned-baby-names/news-story/8a2f110daf7de8800ca555dbc48e47cc

    A list of banned baby names!

    I can’t find that Archduke is banned, so that’s a good option! Pope? Emperor?

  153. December 5, 2016 5:49 pm

    “”I also see that the Greens managed to get their extra money for land care from money saved from the soon to be axed “Green Army”. So, not “extra” money at all.””

    There’s just so much hilarity in all of that. Richard Di Natale. What a tosser.

  154. Tom R permalink
    December 5, 2016 6:32 pm

    but say nothing when Ford left under Gillard.

    Because whatever reason and whatever effect it had, Labor fought tooth and nail to keep it here.

    They didn’t tell them to FUCK OFF!

    That’s what hockey etal thinks of blue collar workers!

  155. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 5, 2016 7:28 pm

    Yeah, it should have been just up to taxpayers to support the motor vehicle industry, its viability had nothing to do with the people that worked in it.

  156. December 5, 2016 8:09 pm

    l am rather certain team-nanny-roxon won`t admit to seeing reportland tonight and how big black market baccy is, and how organized crime and/or tewwa is making a killing off it. #yaaaay.team

  157. December 5, 2016 8:30 pm

    RE,,,I also see that the Greens managed to get their extra money for land care from money saved from the soon to be axed Green Army. So, not extra money at all,,,

    reb,,,,There`s just so much hilarity in all of that,,,,

    # ,, yes, but not how you think

    reb,,,,Richard Di Natale. What a tosser,,,,

    # ,, the `tosser` is talkbull that is harpooning sardines, trying to extract 45-cents out of the $3/hour visa-slaves (greenz is just being green)

    # ,, what `our` so-called accountant/s are not telling you is, kiwi workers get their ato-tax back and pay in nz, yes l`m certain, my own co-workers have done this, (l think pom co-workers have told me this too)

    # ,, using `dual-taxation-treaties`, l just don`t know whether this is country by country, under commonwealth etc But talkbull is just much-ado about very, very little. #teabags

  158. December 6, 2016 2:01 am

    WHEN I SAW this,

    http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2016/10/10/4551829.htm

    QUENTIN MCDERMOTT: Senator Abetz is keen to introduce us to his political advisor, Josh Manuatu, who last year told him he is gay.

    ERIC ABETZ: What I didn`t know at the time that Josh was identifying as same sex attracted and when he told me that was the case I said `look fine thanks for telling me, nice to know` and I think we shook hands and that was it, it was a relatively brief conversation and from my perspective it changed nothing..

    JOSH: It was not anything spectacular I think there`s more shock and outrage from people when I say I work for Senator Abetz and I’m gay than what there was in the conversation or since.

    QUENTIN MCDERMOTT: Can I ask you this? You say gay, you say same sex attracted, do you have arguments about this, about the language?

    JOSH: Not at all.

    QUENTIN MCDERMOTT: Josh doesn`t want to marry. He doesn`t want the definition of marriage to be changed. And he`s angry at how Senator Abetz was lambasted for remarking that not all same sex couples wish to marry.

    JOSH: I was getting sick and tired of people saying if you don`t support same sex marriage then you are homophobic..

    Josh: I thought it was important that he knew there were people like me in the gay community who don`t support a change in the definition and seeing somebody that I work for, that I look up to, that I admire, getting absolutely attacked in the media.. was difficult and I thought was important that people like me take a more active role in trying to build the case and make it clear our position.

    # ,, it left me with the impression abetz had found himself a `pet-p0of` and useful idiot to spout his nonsense thru. (A Look! Look! I have a `homosexual` that doesn`t want to get married, so what are the rest of you complaining about. Type of deal.)

    # ,, if the topic was abortion, l am sure eric would have dug-up a pregnant daughter to claim women should be denied abortion too. #teabags

  159. December 6, 2016 9:45 am

    Thanks for that Shane, nice to see you using links. You must feel ashamed to be a financial planner. Do you accept commissions when putting clients in to super or life insurance, or do you send them back?

  160. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 6, 2016 10:33 am

    They didn’t tell them to FUCK OFF!

    Neither did Hockey. You are shifting the blame from Rudd/Gillard to Hockey because you do not want to admit Labors failings. What you need to ask is why did local cars sales crash from 25% of the market in 2006 to only 10% in 2013. And during this time Labor gave them all the money they asked for.

  161. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 6, 2016 10:36 am

  162. December 6, 2016 2:24 pm

    Bankers fled. Unwanted product. White elephant. Perfect for clowntown. How could they possibly pass-up the chance for 7-failures in one!

    https://t.co/0H7zoYoJx6

    Australian`s lose `every` time. Australia `loses` every time.

    #everySingleFcukingTime

  163. TB Queensland permalink
    December 6, 2016 4:07 pm

    I assume that LINK is for ToSY, tbagz, I do hope he comprehends the facts this time …

    This little snipe demonstrates a Jarryd Haynes mindset … if you’ve ever watched him play football …

    Thanks for that Shane, nice to see you using links. You must feel ashamed to be a financial planner. Do you accept commissions when putting clients in to super or life insurance, or do you send them back?

  164. TB Queensland permalink
    December 6, 2016 4:26 pm

    HO! HO! HO! Pull the other one! But gently 😉

    The Women’s Life Centre has operated for several years in Albury, NSW, marketing itself as a service that helps “any woman facing an unplanned pregnancy or worried that they may be pregnant”.

    The centre is currently crowdfunding to buy an ultrasound device and says it offers pregnancy testing, counselling, resources on pregnancy and abortion, future planning and abortion grief counselling.

    The centre is staffed by pro-life volunteers and staff but its website makes no mention of its anti-abortion stance, nor does its shopfront, which advertises “free pregnancy help” and “free pregnancy testing”.

    The website domain name for the clinic is registered to the Wagga Wagga Catholic diocese, which covers Albury.

    It also receives funding support from a café next door, named Esencia, which is owned by the church, according to the Australian Business Register and the Australian Securities and Investments Commission database.

    A spokesman for the Wagga Wagga diocese said he did not believe there was any link between the church and the pregnancy centre. He said there may have been “technical assistance” to help the centre set up its website but nothing further.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/06/catholic-church-denies-link-to-pregnancy-centre-accused-of-covert-anti-abortion-agenda

    The BS/lies by/from organised religions never seems to stop!

  165. TB Queensland permalink
    December 6, 2016 4:36 pm

    Another interesting Adani LINK

    Despite the fact that Adani’s own economists have sworn under oath that the mine will create less than 1,500 jobs, the federal government, the Queensland premier and the Adani public relations machine all claim that the project would create 10,000 or more jobs. Unlike Adani’s economists, these public boosters for the project do not have to make their claims in front of a judge.

    There is also a remarkable silence about the fact that Adani plans to employ as many robots as it can and as few people as possible. According to Adani Mining’s CEO, “All the vehicles will be capable of automation. When we ramp up the mine, everything will be autonomous from mine to port. In our eyes, this is the mine of the future.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/06/1bn-for-the-adani-coal-mine-ordinary-australians-understand-economics-better-than-turnbull

  166. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 6, 2016 4:37 pm

    AO – I think Medicare funds a range of private health care providers.

    It’s disingenuous to extend a commitment of “no privatisation of Medicare” to “no privatisation of anything to do with health”

  167. Walrus permalink
    December 6, 2016 4:50 pm

    “There is also a remarkable silence about the fact that Adani plans to employ as many robots as it can and as few people as possible.”

    That’s excellent news. Expensive and often disruptive potential workforce replaced by reliable cheaper robots.

    It was always bound to happen thanks to the CFMEU. In fact with all these robots on site Adani should end up being the safest workplace in Australia.

    And that should make the CFMEU very happy

  168. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 6, 2016 5:24 pm

    TomR should be happy

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/greens-under-fire-over-call-to-fasttrack-alcoa-smelter-closure-in-portland/news-story/2ea83fbec93223c096e5099506da212e

    The Greens have been slammed for urging the fast track of a “transition task force” that would see the closure of the aluminium smelter in Victoria’s Portland and impact thousands of jobs.

    Australian Workers’ Union secretary Ben Davis said it smacked of enthusiasm “for ridding the region of jobs critical to its ongoing wellbeing”……..“The Greens are very quick to sound the death knell of any heavy industry, apparently oblivious to realities of life for working people,” Mr Davis.

  169. Walrus permalink
    December 6, 2016 5:38 pm

    But……but……..but

    Think of all the Green jobs LOL

  170. December 6, 2016 6:12 pm

    “You must feel ashamed to be a financial planner.”

    Bit of a low blow there ToSY.

    How about we talk about your profession?

  171. Capacity Building permalink
    December 6, 2016 6:48 pm

    (I’ve sat in meetings where senior public servants search out the exceptions and the edge cases – at the expense of simplifying the common case, because they’re focused on the process rather than a better outcome.”)

  172. TB Queensland permalink
    December 6, 2016 7:16 pm

    You must feel ashamed to be a financial planner.

    You should simply be ashamed …

  173. TB Queensland permalink
    December 6, 2016 7:28 pm

    Now its getting silly here (re Adani) …

    And when the Revolution hits The Tories* and the “modern” ALP will say WTF happened!

    Slow as shit!

    The “modern” Revolution is being played out now … on mobile phones!

    Middle class families who see their kids being swept away with no job opportunities – massive HELP(HECS) debt … billions of $$$ spent on war machines … 0 $$$ on how they get to work to earn for themselves their kids and no their grandkids …

    And particularly people who are in Parliament for one thing only … their (and mates)$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ …

    What fkn nonsense …

  174. TB Queensland permalink
    December 6, 2016 7:54 pm

    After many years (avoiding it) … I became a big fan of The Walking Dead … I couldn’t understand the obsession people had with fictional zombies …

    But TWD is not about zombies … its about survival … and particularly survival of families … both blood families and “dependence” families (those families experienced by reliance on each other eg military, and emergency services – police, paramedic/ambulance and firefighters, medical and other “close” action/outcome groups …

    If we did suffer the emergence of a zombie virus, or the sudden drama of a potential meteor impact, or a collapse of government and riots outside/aimed at you home … who would you turn to?

  175. December 6, 2016 8:21 pm

    I wouldn’t say I’m a fan, but I’ve been watching it. I quite like the spin off – Fear The Walking Dead which is a bit more about the personalities..

  176. TB Queensland permalink
    December 6, 2016 9:31 pm

    Yeah, sreb, we’ll watch S07E07 tonight …

    Haven’t checked FTWD … but it does sound OK … it’s the personalities that make TWD … not the “bloodthirsty” scenes … must check it out …

    The Minister is watching Nigella at the moment … Nige, keeps talking about her sticky date …

  177. Walrus permalink
    December 6, 2016 10:09 pm

    “How about we talk about your profession?”

    Gigolo ?

    Never quite worked that out. Besides if you disclose voluntarily that’s good enough for moi. If you don’t I don’t care anyway.

    We know TomR’s only because there is an advertisement on Gumtree that pleads for his return. It is placed by his village

  178. TB Queensland permalink
    December 6, 2016 10:47 pm

    Walrus humourus?

    Or

    Walrus sillyous?

  179. December 6, 2016 11:46 pm

    “How about we talk about your profession?”

    I’ve chosen not to reveal that kind of personal infotmation, unlike Shane. Are you ready to disclose my personal details? That might get interesting.

  180. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:13 am

    Are you ready to disclose my personal details? That might get interesting.

    That’s an offer, methinks …

    That might get interesting

    Whoooo!

    As if.

  181. December 7, 2016 6:53 am

    teebz,,,,I assume that LINK is for ToSY, tbagz,,,, #nah, it was just a reply to a tweet link armchair dropped.

    ,,,,I do hope he comprehends the facts this time,,,, #no hope, he is too preoccupied with his own `job-title` at the moment, tho it will probably impress boo-melb, but l reckon the rest of us won`t give a flying fcuk.

    ,,,,This little snipe demonstrates,,,, #the junior accountant in the accounts `payable` department.

    For Example,

    blubbering,,,,That`s excellent news. Expensive and often disruptive potential workforce replaced by reliable cheaper robots,,,,

    # ,, yes it`s `wonderful` news. All those well paid robots submitting their ato-returns thru their `accountants` each year and spending money freely among other `businesses` to provide them with `goods` and `services` and making `investments` of various types. Oh yes `baby-teabags`, your parents are providing you with a `most` wonderful future.

  182. December 7, 2016 7:29 am

    “Are you ready to disclose my personal details?”

    That’s evading the point.

    The point is that you’ve been asking Shane to provide a link to back up his claims, and yesterday he did.

    But rather than acknowledge that you made some snide insulting accusation about his profession.

    Pathetic really.

  183. Tom R permalink
    December 7, 2016 7:32 am

    I think Medicare funds a range of private health care providers.

    Yes, and that was the first raft of its privatisation. It goes against the basic tenets of the plan to privatise its own opposition, and to gift limited dollars and services into what amounts to privileged treatments to a small section of the community who can afford it.

    Remember when we were told we could no longer support labor intensive car manufacturing in southern states with tax payer $

    It’s shameless isn’t it.

    Think of all the Green jobs LOL

    And this is why I cannot bring myself to vote Greens, their economics are non existent. They have always been happy to shed jobs, and then turn around and pretend they are the workers friend.

    Labors policies may not be pretty, but they try to walk the line of job security and environmental responsibility

    Mind you, the end of manufacturing brought on by hockey was the real death knell for Alcoa etal. hockey etal have a lot to answer for by telling manufacturing to go and Fuck Off!

    ………………..

    TWD is a great series, the Zombies are merely a backdrop to the bigger story. The real monsters are the survivors, as are the heroes. I watched FTWD, but never really got into it, it seemed kind of pointless to me.

    A bit like wally

  184. December 7, 2016 7:37 am

    HA HA, lt wasn`t too long ago you were arguing against me when l pointed out the transition to `private-profit` education was quite the ponzi-scheme, once the job destruction numbers were considered along-side.

    ,,,The `modern` Revolution is being played out now .. on mobile phones!,,,

    ,,,,families who see their kids being swept away with no job opportunities ,, massive HELP(HECS) debt ,, billions of $$$ spent on,,,#WASTED

    # ,, and yes, bang-on about the phones, platforms(fakebook) and the blow-back coming down the pipe-line. The `teams` don`t have a fcuking clue. (-:

  185. Tom R permalink
    December 7, 2016 7:57 am

    Expensive and often disruptive potential workforce replaced by reliable cheaper robots.

    I think you meant “humanz” replaced by tech

    What will happen to those “humanz”?

    If there are no jobs, no one will be able to get their taxes done. All of a sudden, wallys empire is at risk.

    Amazon just unveiled a grocery store without lines or checkout counters

    http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/5/13842592/amazon-go-new-cashier-less-convenience-store

    It is unstoppable, the question is, how do we handle it. I’m looking forward to xmas, hoping Santa brings me this

    https://www.newsouthbooks.com.au/books/why-the-future-is-workless/

    lt wasn`t too long ago you were arguing against me when l pointed out the transition to `private-profit` education was quite the ponzi-scheme

    Was that directed to anybody in particular, or just another of yer pointless rants?

  186. Tom R permalink
    December 7, 2016 8:10 am

    Joebs and Groewth, where are they now?

    Attention in official circles is turning to whether the expected fall will be a one-off. If a slide in the September quarter is followed by a slide in the December quarter, the outcome will be described by many as a “recession”. In fact there is no such official definition of recession, and it would be possible for Australia to endure two quarters of negative economic growth without the hardship normally associated with a recession.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/september-quarter-national-accounts-experts-think-gdp-went-backwards-20161206-gt5bwn.html

  187. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 7, 2016 8:16 am

    It’s shameless isn’t it.

    The only thing shameless are your lies. After Ford (under Gillard) left it made it impossible for Holden/Toyota to stay. What happened is that Holden went to Hockey and asked for even more money. Hockey said no. All that was legislated until 2020 was all they were going to get. But it did not matter. The industry died under Rudd/Gillard when local sales went from 25% to 10% of the market

  188. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 7, 2016 8:28 am

    that was the first raft of its privatisation

    Really? I don’t think it’s quite that simple.

    But the point is, a commitment not to privatise Medicare doesn’t equate to a commitment not to change anything in the health sector.

  189. Walrus permalink
    December 7, 2016 8:31 am

    “It is unstoppable, …………I’m looking forward to xmas, hoping Santa brings me this”

  190. December 7, 2016 8:39 am

    Oh NANNY, MY NANNY, Just where IS team-nanny-roxon???? (-:

    WAYNE BUCHHORN, ASST COMMISSIONER, AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE: Impunity’s not the right word, but they’re certainly very bold and prepared to take risks to protect their industry, one would assume.

    NICK MCKENZIE: The boom in the illicit tobacco trade is partly the product of moves by successive governments to increase the tax on tobacco.

    Earlier this year Scott Morrison announced new tax increases pushing up the price of a pack of smokes from $25 to $40 over four years.

    SCOTT MORRISON, TREASURER: The net impact of the tobacco measures will raise $4.7 billion over the next four years.

    NICK MCKENZIE: The tax hikes have tremendous public health benefits – they’ve also been welcomed by organised crime.

    WAYNE BUCHHORN: The higher the tobacco is on the legal, legitimate market, then the potential for it to push those customers into the illicit tobacco market is also very real.

    ALLISTER KEEL: So, as the tax hikes continue year after year, organised crime are rubbing their hands?

    WAYNE BUCHHORN: They’re certainly making more money out of it, absolutely.

    NICK MCKENZIE: Assistant Commissioner Wayne Buchhorn has been seconded from the Federal Police to oversee Border Force’s new counter organised crime operations, and its battle against illicit tobacco importers.

    WAYNE BUCHHORN: I would suggest it’s probably a billion-dollar trade, yeah. Absolutely, because it is a very lucrative trade, and the money that you can make by bringing it in illicitly is quite significant.

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4587501.htm

    # ,, Nope. Nobody here ever said `this` before. (-: #yaaaay.nanny

  191. Walrus permalink
    December 7, 2016 9:34 am

    “I’ve chosen not to reveal that kind of personal infotmation, unlike Shane. ”

    ToSY raises a legitimate point.

    Any financial planner who accepts any commission at all from any organisation at all cannot be considered truly independent.

    Only planners who charge by the hour as their only income can be considered independent.

    As soon as you accept anything from any organisation then you have sold your independence.

  192. December 7, 2016 9:35 am

    “That’s evading the point. The point is that you’ve been asking Shane to provide a link to back up his claims, and yesterday he did. But rather than acknowledge that you made some snide insulting accusation about his profession. Pathetic really.”

    Is it?

    Shane put up a link to a news report about CBA financial planners. The scandal revolves around the fact that the said financial planners were recommending super funds and life insurance companies where the planners received the highest commissions – AKA kick-backs.

    It struck me as ironic that Shane is a self-declared financial planner. I wondered whether Shane would feel ashamed to be in the same profession. Then I asked whether he took similar kinds of commissions. A question he has so far failed to answer.

    But I miss the point, apparently.

  193. Walrus permalink
    December 7, 2016 9:57 am

    “But I miss the point, apparently.”

    Tends to happen a bit around here LOL

  194. December 7, 2016 9:58 am

    Your argument is bullshit tinfoil`osy, cba-BANK went thru their account-holder database and specifically `flagged` elderly pensioners to `cold-call` with LIES about changes to their pension/rules to specifically then funnel their victims into cba-FINANCE/INSURANCE to `drain` account holders of their funds. To make matters even worse, instead of just canceling and refunding the fraud/s against their account holders, the bald kiwi-cnut director ran a media-blitz to claim `denial` and `willful-blindness`.

  195. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2016 10:50 am

    Wally thinks this is a blow up love doll …

  196. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2016 10:54 am

    But I miss the point, apparently.

    Yup! ‘Twas the way the comment/question was phrased

    Tends to happen a bit around here LOL

    And always with the usual suspects …

    Now, which bank do you work for ToSY?

  197. December 7, 2016 11:12 am

    “Yup! ‘Twas the way the comment/question was phrased”

    Was’t?

    Hilarious. TB Queensland, the self-appointed phrasing cop.

    ROLF!

  198. December 7, 2016 11:35 am

    If I were to rephrase my initial question to Shane, I would change the specific ‘super or life insurance’ to the more general ‘products’.

  199. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 7, 2016 11:35 am

    It’s funny the way ALP barrackers are so critical of Turnbull for negotiating the passage of legislation with the cross bench, but considered the ability of Gillard to “work with the cross bench” to be one of her finest attributes!

  200. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2016 11:50 am

    ToSY

    Thanks for that Shane, nice to see you using links. You must feel ashamed to be a financial planner. Do you accept commissions when putting clients in to super or life insurance, or do you send them back?

    That’s not “hilarious” … that’s just Snarky!

    Now you seem to be playing the expert, which bank do you work for?

  201. December 7, 2016 11:50 am

    “”It struck me as ironic that Shane is a self-declared financial planner””

    It struck me that you were just being a nasty cunt.

  202. December 7, 2016 11:57 am

    “It struck me that you were just being a nasty cunt.”

    It strikes me that the cavalry comes out in force whenever one of their pet commenters is challenged. You know, the ones they “usually agree with”.

  203. Walrus permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:10 pm

    “That’s not “hilarious” … that’s just Snarky!”

    Wow……..Wow……….sarcasm gets you nowhere around here anymore

    “It strikes me that the cavalry comes out in force whenever one of their pet commenters is challenged”

    Yep I think I know what you mean…………….LOL

  204. December 7, 2016 12:10 pm

    “That’s not “hilarious” … that’s just Snarky!”

    Snarky? On the internet? Unheard of!

  205. December 7, 2016 12:16 pm

    “”It strikes me that the cavalry comes out in force whenever one of their pet commenters is challenged””

    But he wasn’t challenged.

    You just chose to attack him with a snarky insult for no reason.

    There is a difference.

    But it doesn’t surprise me that you can’t see it.

    Next you’ll be saying you’re really the victim.

  206. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:24 pm

    It MUST be LABORS fault!

    The economy shrank in the September quarter to post its worst performance since the 2008-2009 global financial crisis.

    The national accounts showed economic growth declined 0.5 per cent in the quarter, dragging the annual growth rate down to 1.8 per cent.

    Annual growth in the June quarter was previously reported at 3.3 per cent before revisions.

    It was the first contraction in growth since March 2011.

    Earlier, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull insisted his government is doing all it can to promote growth in the face of big global headwinds.

    “We have sluggish growth across the world at the moment and that is one of the reasons why everything we do, every element of our policy has to promote economic growth,” he told reporters in Sydney.

  207. December 7, 2016 12:25 pm

    Adults in Charge!

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  208. December 7, 2016 12:26 pm

    “Next you’ll be saying you’re really the victim.”

    No, not really. Everyone around here is so polite all the time, I just don’t know what came over me.

    But it won’t surprise the cavalry there will be no apology forthcoming, no matter how snarky my moral superiors accuse me of being.

  209. Walrus permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:27 pm

    “Next you’ll be saying you’re really the victim.”

    Trigger point

  210. Walrus permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:28 pm

    “Everyone around here is so polite all the time”

    LOL…………actually…………ROFLMAO

  211. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:29 pm

    Next you’ll be saying you’re really the victim

    yep. the Jarryd Haynes Defence …

    I’m off for a nice Chinese lunch … play with yourselves kiddies* …

    *(sarcastic double entendre)

  212. December 7, 2016 12:31 pm

    “”there will be no apology””

    To quote your extensive repertoire:

    “whatever.”

  213. Walrus permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:31 pm

    “Worst quarterly GDP result since the GFC.”

    Actually that’s good news for the now dead reform process. The only way we will get further economic reform is via a lot more mass unemployment and people losing their houses etc.

    A bit of poverty is good to get the population to focus on things that need changing and it helps both parties no matter who is in office to “sell” the process

  214. December 7, 2016 12:33 pm

  215. December 7, 2016 12:33 pm

    “”I’m off for a nice Chinese lunch””

    Brisbane style….?

    That sounds nice… 😯

  216. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:35 pm

    Looks like the ALP supporters are happy at the bad economic news.

  217. December 7, 2016 12:37 pm

  218. Snark Net permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:44 pm

  219. TB Queensland permalink
    December 7, 2016 12:49 pm

    Brisbane style….?

    That sounds nice…

    Gawd, where do you find that shit in Brisbane? … it reminds me of Melbourne Market street “food”.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Looks like the ALP supporters are happy at the bad economic news.

    Nah, just wally … ’cause he is …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    I see ToSY took my play with yourselves comment to heart …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    Off we go!

  220. December 7, 2016 1:00 pm

    Chuckle, clowntown is buying a new `ice-breaker` boat for `ant-arctic` expeditions. Somehow, l just don`t see them getting much use out of it.

  221. Walrus permalink
    December 7, 2016 1:01 pm

  222. White Pointer Snark permalink
    December 7, 2016 1:27 pm

    WARNING: The following video may contain traces of schadenfreude (and snark).

  223. Tom R permalink
    December 7, 2016 1:42 pm

    Wow, nanny roxon was all about taxes, NOT plain packaging.

    History is written by the stupid it seems

    Also interesting to read that two quarters of negative growth is no longer considered a’technical’ recession by our pundits, where previously they tried to argue one was.

    What has changed I wonder?

  224. Tom R permalink
    December 7, 2016 1:46 pm

    And nil, Detroit showed the temporary figures required to make it through the extremely high exchange rate but hockey etal told them to …….. you know what

  225. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 7, 2016 2:00 pm

    And nil, Detroit showed the temporary figures required to make it through the extremely high exchange rate but hockey etal told them to …

    Do you have a link for that?

  226. December 7, 2016 2:07 pm

    Team Nanny-roxon were cheering like raving lunatics that military-grade packaging was responsible for falls in white-market baccy-sales, not transfers to black-market baccy as l said (and now the afp-plod say too) #yay.team.nanny.roxon (and where is ricky too, BTW)

  227. Have-You-No-Decency Snark Generator permalink
    December 7, 2016 4:57 pm

    Trump’s Taiwan call wasn’t a blunder. It was brilliant.

  228. Tom R permalink
    December 7, 2016 5:06 pm

    Braintheswmp, your link said it was taxes (if it was anything related to government policy that is ), not plain packaging.

    nil, I’ve supplied that link many times before

  229. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 7, 2016 7:10 pm

    nil, I’ve supplied that link many times before

    Good. It should not be too hard to do it again because i do not recall that link.

    Australians did not want to buy the crap that Ford/Holden/Toyota made otherwise they would have.

    You know telling lies helps nobody. I want an Australian car industry more than you do but telling lies does not help.

  230. December 7, 2016 7:28 pm

    Could Kamahl please retrieve a comment from the spaminator. (It may have exceeded the permissable level of snark.

  231. December 7, 2016 7:28 pm

    Could Kamahl please retrieve a comment from the spaminator. (It may have exceeded the permissable level of snark.)

  232. December 7, 2016 7:30 pm

    I think I meant permissible.

  233. Tom R permalink
    December 7, 2016 9:51 pm

    Good. It should not be too hard to do it again because i do not recall that link.

    It shouldn’t be required, but your blind ignorance extends to your memory cell too.

    https://theguttertrash.com/2015/04/10/tony-abbott-the-last-thing-we-want-is-some-sort-of-human-rights-free-for-all/#comment-101241

    https://theguttertrash.com/2014/08/28/rostrum-18/#comment-71590

    https://theguttertrash.com/2016/02/23/5562/#comment-123438

    Without government assistance, head office in Detroit had decided that making cars in Australia no longer added up – to the tune of $3750 a car per year.

    Mr Devereux knew that with no money forthcoming from the federal government, the end was nigh. His team had already brokered an enterprise bargaining agreement with the unions that enshrined a three-year wage freeze and won an extra 16 minutes of work time per employee a shift.

    Mr Devereux told the Productivity Commission he did not have to eliminate the entire $3750 gap, just enough to keep his masters happy.

    (The last link is the best, it is quoted by you ) 😉

    I think I meant permissible.

    Perhaps the spelling snark held it up?

  234. December 7, 2016 10:11 pm

    I’m not watching the Norm Chompsky clip. (Exercising my human right not to be hectored by a fossilised communist.)

    😂

  235. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 7, 2016 10:15 pm

    TomR

    Your quote starts with a lie

    Without government assistance, head office in Detroit had decided that making cars in Australia no longer added up – to the tune of $3750 a car per year.

    Gee i wonder who Mark Hawthorne votes for. Govt assistence was there until 2020. It was legislated, in the budget and the Coalition did not have the numbers to stop it.

    Mr Devereux knew that with no money forthcoming from the federal government, the end was nigh.

    No money?????

    https://www.business.gov.au/assistance/automotive-transformation-scheme

    The Automotive Transformation Scheme (ATS) commenced on 1 January 2011 and will run until 31 December 2020. It aims to encourage competitive investment, innovation and economic sustainability in the Australian automotive industry.

    The ATS will achieve this in a way that:

    improves environmental outcomes and
    promotes the development of workforce skills
    .

  236. December 7, 2016 10:39 pm

    Chomsky = communist

    Hitler = leftist

    Trump = non-hectoring voice of reason

    Undisputed & ‘victorious’

  237. December 7, 2016 10:42 pm

    Victorious is correct, anyhow.

    HAWHAW!

  238. December 7, 2016 10:46 pm

    Yes, yes it is.

  239. December 7, 2016 10:46 pm

    * Tony is drunk

  240. December 7, 2016 10:50 pm

    Correct.

  241. December 7, 2016 10:50 pm

    Correct.t

  242. December 7, 2016 10:56 pm

    I love how you lot are nailing your flags to Trump’s mast nowadays.

    Much political capital inversely incoming.

    Dumb as a box of hammers, your man.

    Can’t be handled by his handlers. egomaniacal, retaliatory twitterbitch that he is.

    Principled Conservatives (apparently there aren’t that many) have run a fucking mile.

  243. December 7, 2016 10:59 pm

    I know. I should be listening to the always correct Norman Kromskie.

  244. December 7, 2016 11:02 pm

    “You lot”

    Guff Awe!

  245. December 7, 2016 11:03 pm

    “I’ve spoken to people that see a redundancy as their retirement plan.

    Uncapped redundancy payments can have a negative effect on people’s commitment to the success of their employer”

    Interestingly, these days, I tend to agree with this sentiment.

    Such things should probably be grandfathered; as opposed to removed completely.

    Long term employees, particularly in ‘fraught’ industries, almost have a vested interest in seeing it fail.
    No benefit to those of us striving for longer term employment/financial security.

  246. December 7, 2016 11:07 pm

    “You lot”

    So…I’ve not been keeping up with current events here.

    Am I to assume that you’re not a Trump Triumphalist?

    I can easily imagine a position where you aren’t, but you studiously avoid publically acknowledging the perils of his IGNORANT POPULISM (to assuage your satisfaction with his [also populist] anti-AGW stances).

  247. December 7, 2016 11:10 pm

    Norman Kromskie.

    Alive during the ascendancy of mid last century fascism.

    Clearly a redundant source of information on the New Arsehats.

    * lugenpresse = the new MSM

  248. December 7, 2016 11:17 pm

    Aligning oneself with Putin, Duterte et al. Presumably by association.

    Highly commendable.

  249. December 7, 2016 11:22 pm

    I know Chompski says the world’s about to end. I, on the other hand, am keeping my undies dry.

  250. December 7, 2016 11:26 pm

    An intelligent rebuttal of Chomsky’s inferences would be appreciated.

    He is looking old and will probably be extinct soonish, so I suppose playing the long game (putting your fingers in your ears & pretending he’s just a gargoyle of the dreaded ‘left’, while deliberately avoiding engaging what he’s been saying for decades) makes sense.

    At least splatter used to demonstrate a (contemptuous) familiarity with his (much earlier, I’m sure he switched off to Chomsky’s nuances in the mid 80’s) published opinions. [as opposed to Breitbart Anti-chomskyisms.

    Does the bottom splatter hither yet now?

  251. December 7, 2016 11:29 pm

    And by ‘about to end’, what time frame exactly are you attributing to his commentary?

    I think you’ve become reflexively dismissive of much of his appreciably circumspect observations.
    Difficult to maintain balance, I know, when you drink deeply from various obvious sources that play your favourite melodies.

  252. December 7, 2016 11:31 pm

    “Does the bottom splatter hither yet now?”

    Occasionally now. The jean pule has decreased significantly since you were a frequent visitor. I know he spoke knowledgeably about Chomski, which was admirable. To me, Norman is unreadable and unlistenable.

  253. December 7, 2016 11:33 pm

    Noting, at the same time, that my undies are dry…and yet the pantywetting conservative Abbotteers fucked our privacy & legal citizenhoods a few years back with all of the tewwawist clamouring.

    Such things should never be surrendered to government.

    Actual Libertarians should have been all over that shit.

  254. December 7, 2016 11:34 pm

    “drink deeply from various obvious sources that play your favourite melodies.”

    Isn’t that the same for most of us. I know the various twitter ato around here seem shocked by certain ideas that are unremarkable elsewhere.

  255. December 7, 2016 11:35 pm

    I think I meant twitterati.

  256. December 7, 2016 11:36 pm

    Splatter spoke knowledgeably about what he remembers about Chomsky from the 70’s-early 80’s.

    He (Chomsky) is often considered to be unreadable, and I can certainly comprehend why the effort to do so would diminish with ideological proclivity. He also sounds like an old man droning on and on.
    That is in now way a legitimate deconstruction of what he says.

  257. December 7, 2016 11:41 pm

    “Actual Libertarians should have been all over that shit.”

    I’ll give you that one.

  258. December 7, 2016 11:43 pm

    “Isn’t that the same for most of us. I know the various twitter ato around here seem shocked by certain ideas that are unremarkable elsewhere.”

    Yes, I imagine it is.

    Although, apart from having to subscribe to see your photos in Italy a few years back, I’ve not taken up the habit.

    The most I see of Twitter, is the way it’s now quoted by MSM news stories (a total fucking cop out, imo).

    I have stepped away from all of this for a while, and I have a bit more clarity on it all, from a distance, I reckon.

    Also. Today is my birthday. I finished N/S this morning and I’m about to take a Stilnox to try & reset my circadian clock and hopefully rejoin the normal world in days to come.

    And No, I am not drunk.

  259. December 7, 2016 11:47 pm

    Happy Birthday! 41 years old if memory serves. (I remember a lot of obscure things. Also, I know a little bit about a lot of things.)

  260. December 7, 2016 11:49 pm

    “I’ll give you that one.”

    No government, left or right, will ever give that shit back.

    Chomsky, Snowden et al, should be listened to on such matters.

    They are not communists.

    Snowden, and all whistleblowers, should be revered as our insights into the view from behind the curtain of our rapists.

    I noted, with cynicism, the way in which wikileaks was treated (by those same who called for Assange’s execution etc) during the US 2016 POTUS campaign as a ‘credible source’; when it was politically expedient to do so.

    Credible advocacy is not aligned.

  261. December 7, 2016 11:50 pm

    “And No, I am not drunk.”

    That does not compute.

  262. December 7, 2016 11:55 pm

    “I noted, with cynicism, the way in which wikileaks was treated (by those same who called for Assange’s execution etc) during the US 2016 POTUS campaign as a ‘credible source’; when it was politically expedient to do so.”

    Maybe Julian read the tea-bag-leaves correctly and backed the correct candidate. Mayhaps.

  263. December 7, 2016 11:57 pm

    Thank you.

    I won’t confirm or deny my age, but you are very good with details.

    I also know a little bit about this and that.

    The South Australian electricity market is one such thing which I spend a reasonable amount of time monitoring, professionally…and it is a fucking abomination. I was in the shower, having just finished work when the first, more notorious blackout happened this year. I have verifiable insight into the fiasco; but am bound.
    I think the SA government will be out on its arse, despite the dearth of a viable alternative, next time. Primarily due to power prices/reliability & the clusterfuck of what they’re doing to the regional health system.
    Happily, the stupid Victorians look set to join us in the joy of Grid Unreliability.

  264. December 7, 2016 11:59 pm

    “Happily, the stupid Victorians look set to join us in the joy of Grid Unreliability”

    Sadly, I fear you are correct.

  265. December 8, 2016 12:01 am

    It’s very nice talking to you again by the way.

  266. December 8, 2016 12:03 am

    “Maybe Julian read the tea-bag-leaves correctly and backed the correct candidate. Mayhaps.”

    I’ve always liked to think that something such as wikileaks is far bigger than ‘Julian’.

    I see the obsession with and smearing of (rightly or wrongly) Julian as a deliberate distraction and an attempt to discourage or discredit the leaking of information against true global elites and their power monopolies.
    Assange is just the shitty hood ornament we’re all meant to associate with whistleblowing.

    Snowden’s leaks were extremely provocative, and should concern thinking people everywhere.

  267. December 8, 2016 12:07 am

    Gotta go before I become zolpidemed into my chair & end up asphyxiated by a duo of JRT’s.

    Nice to shoot the shit, bloke!

    😉

  268. December 8, 2016 12:09 am

    👍

  269. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 8:22 am

    So on the ocean of life,
    we pass and speak one another,
    only a look and a voice,
    then darkness again and a silence.

  270. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 8:43 am

    yep, it’s all Labors fault

    The shadow treasurer’s comments after his government counterpart, Treasurer Scott Morrison, said the slump in the national accounts was due to a lack of support of the government’s economic plan.

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/33447784/no-plan-for-economy-just-slogans-opposition-concerned-about-negative-growth/#page1

  271. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 8, 2016 9:20 am

    yep, it’s all Labors fault

    Labor should stop playing Dr No and support the govts policies.

  272. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2016 9:30 am

    “Labor should stop playing Dr No and support the govts policies.”

    If you now support Government policies why the fuck didn’t you vote for them ?

  273. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 9:34 am

    Thanks to the Unions, Carlton Cold is back on the menu 🙂

    https://www.etuvic.com.au/ETUV/Campaigns/CUB_Workers.aspx?WebsiteKey=1b0a2538-a077-444c-9510-24cd5f2f6b39

  274. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 9:36 am

    Hows yer memory this morning nil?

    No apology is necessary 😉

  275. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:15 am

    It’s generally work practices (rather than wage rates) that cause the pressure to restructure. No doubt CUB have achieved most of the reform they sought.

  276. December 8, 2016 10:42 am

    “”If you now support Government policies why the fuck didn’t you vote for them ?””

    YEAH NEIL! WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU….??!!

  277. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:43 am

    Happy Brfday, toylet …

  278. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:59 am

    Hows yer memory this morning nil?

    I have read that Hawthorne article before. I would not trust a single thing in it.

  279. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2016 11:01 am

    Sooo… HD is 41, it’s such a coincidence that we’re the same age!

    HB HD

  280. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 8, 2016 11:18 am

    If you now support Government policies why the fuck didn’t you vote for them ?

    Because i do not like Turnbull. He hung around like a bad smell just to become PM. Turnbull is like the dog who chased the car and then does not know what to do next.

    But the ALP should not play Dr No. The ALP does not care about Australia.

  281. December 8, 2016 11:49 am

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  282. December 8, 2016 11:51 am

    “” it’s such a coincidence that we’re the same age! “”

  283. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2016 12:36 pm

    Mmmmm … me too

  284. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2016 1:25 pm

    That clip appear to be slightly insulting.

  285. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2016 1:47 pm

    To whom? XD

  286. Terra Nover permalink
    December 8, 2016 2:26 pm

    (And by ‘about to end’, what time frame exactly are you attributing to his commentary?

    Fortunately, Chomsky’s cheery (back)chatterings, about Life on Earth in the Anthropo(s)cene, appear to be one-offs; and those prone to hedge bets, whilst occasionally revelling in survivorship biases, may proceed, as ever, with received rational optimisms unchecked; even as the powers-that-be continue conspicuously to loot for all they’re worth with wild abandon, deliberately disorganise and dismantle civil civic society, subtly sabotage scientific gauges and slickly suppress safety guidelines, strongly promote (para)militarisations and (domestic) espionages, and etcetera; all in a good cause, which bears only a parsing resemblance to a resplendent renaissance, not of a piece with any kind of envisaged end-game.

    ——————————

    it’s such a coincidence that we’re the same age!

    Not really, praps; if 42-1 ponders co-incidence for c.13.7+ billion years.

    —————————–

    And, yes, WB and HB, HDotBL)

  287. December 8, 2016 3:22 pm

    Happy birthday dunnySoiledByHerTurnMythAndFrightenedIntoSavingTheSwamp

    ,,,,redundancy payments can have a negative effect on people`s commitment to the success of their employer,,,,#probably-true-for-boardrooms ,,,,Interestingly, these days, I tend to agree with this sentiment,,,,

    # ,, but of course boo-melb is `only` meaning the blue-collars. But here of course you`re chasing boo-melbs brainfart down the rabbit-hole, it is making the imbecile `pretence` that fathers near retirement want `redundancy` and their 2,3,4-sons with decades of worklife ahead go into long-term unemployment and/or junk-jobs, in a dead or dying `company-town`. For this to be `viable` dad must receive `several` million dollars pay-out so that dad can pay-off `all` mortgages, car-loans and support `sons-families` too; in a dead and dying company town with little to no job opportunities and realestate values in free-fall. Go and research mike-moores family and `flint` and `dearborn` and tell us all why olden-ill, lizabeth, broadmeadow and geelong will not follow a similar trail of wreckage.

    # ,, fully agree on LibertarianTeabagFail, snowden, manning, wikileaks, etc

    ,,,,reflexively dismissive,,,, ,,,,circumspect observations,,,, ,,,,Difficult to maintain balance,,,, ,,,,drink deeply from various obvious sources that play your favourite melodies,,,,

    # ,, there is a lot of that going around now-a days. (Recently global. 17-times.) Many of all flavors feel safe`n `cosy`, pretected in their echo chamber, yelling at the other `end` of the same echo chamber they are correct, and the other `end` is wrong. Total disbelief and confusion occurs when third party`s prove both `ends` of the echo chamber wrong, or distract them with a big, fat, juicy `outrage` for them to feast upon. We are rapidly moving into the era of `chamber-panic`. Don`t fall in. (-: Those already `in`, can`t get out.

  288. December 8, 2016 4:37 pm

    Generic save-the-swampers probably won`t be enjoying the `cover` of time magazine today.

  289. December 8, 2016 4:55 pm

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  290. December 8, 2016 4:56 pm

    “”save-the-swampers””

    Interesting. If one is determined to “drain the swamp” does that not in fact have the effect of destroying the swamp?

  291. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2016 5:10 pm

    Is that what Donald Pump is doing?

  292. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 8, 2016 5:27 pm

    “…Not really, praps; if 42-1 ponders co-incidence for c.13.7+ billion years.
    —————————–
    And, yes, WB and HB, HDotBL)…”

    😆 :lol” you’re so funny meta!

    HB HD!

  293. December 8, 2016 5:54 pm

    (Schmidt conveniently overlooks the most common words spoken; between those that look down from dinosaur-heaven; `Those cnuts are not waiting for no space-rock!`)

  294. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 7:24 pm

    Awkward

    A new study by international renewable energy and storage firm RES and engineering group Lloyds Register has modelled the events leading to the September 28 blackout, and suggested that if inverter controlled solar and storage had been in place instead of gas generators, then the blackout may have been avoided.

  295. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 7:25 pm

    So, instead of apologising, nil just calls everyone who proves he’s an idiot a liar

  296. December 8, 2016 7:58 pm

    “Awkward”

    According to toiletboss, who apparently monitors power supply and prices as part of his job, South Australia has grid unreliability and high electricity prices. Victoria’s Alt-Left government is forcing us down the same path.

  297. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2016 8:03 pm

    So, instead of apologising, nil just calls everyone who proves he’s an idiot a liar

    LOL! Finally caught on, TR? LOL!

    Nothing is new … nothing changes …

  298. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2016 8:20 pm

    Noel Pearson has really become unhinged … his latest tirade demonstrates a failing demagogue using rhetoric and scrambled logic to bolster his incompetent understanding of his own community … and learning …

    Typical Liberal … blame everyone else …

    As if the political left are not interested in the success of the disadvantaged First People …

    He said the “strangest thing is that this profound insight came from George W Bush”, who was “such a notorious wrangler of the English language and someone many would rate such a poor president”.

    Pearson said Bush’s grasp of the challenge of education for the disadvantaged, including that a reform agenda must “expect every child can learn” and “to blow the whistle on failure”, has “never been better put”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/08/noel-pearson-says-soft-bigotry-of-the-left-the-biggest-challenge-to-indigenous-reform

    Maybe Pearson should “blow the whistle on failure” … his …

  299. December 8, 2016 8:45 pm

    “Noel Pearson has really become unhinged …”

    Why don’t you try explaining how his arguments are wrong, rather than abusing him?

    (I’m not sure he’s a Liberal, by the way.)

  300. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 8, 2016 9:03 pm

    So, instead of apologising, nil just calls everyone who proves he’s an idiot a liar

    That article proves nothing. Fact is when Ford announced they were leaving under Gillard, that was the end of the car industry. Why couldn’t Labor stop Ford from leaving? Surely extra money would have stopped them leaving? The industry was dead. No amount of money could have saved it.

  301. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 8, 2016 9:04 pm

    Typical Liberal … blame everyone else …

    Really TB… why does everything have to be reduced to this partisan nonsense with you?

  302. December 8, 2016 9:09 pm

    Oops. Did I just snark someone?

    So confusing.

  303. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:05 pm

    South Australia has grid unreliability and high electricity prices.

    I AGREE!

    But the blame is not renewables.

    The blame is the privatisation and the long, slow run down by international concerns who have no stake in energy security, only the ‘gougability’

    Renewables are a solution to a problem created years ago.

    The industry was dead.

    The link proves otherwise. No wonder you call it lies, it doesn’t fit your reality.

    why does everything have to be reduced to this partisan nonsense with you?

    BOO!

  304. December 8, 2016 10:11 pm

    “But the blame is not renewables.”

    According to Human Dividend of the Buffalo Lodge, the SA people are blaming the government and are ready to turf them out. A Labor government, if I’m notmistsken.

    😂

  305. December 8, 2016 10:14 pm

    “notmistsken”

    I think I like this word.

  306. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:20 pm

    Yea, I saw the news ruminating on that … again, tonight tosy.

    They’ve been dreaming of that for years though. Luckily for SA, the only thing worst than the libs policies, is their internal bickering. Let’s hope that holds out.

    It’s quite entertaining watching our media here (especially the broadcast) bend over backwards to blame everything on the State Government, only to see their chosen team fall short time and again.

    I’m not saying that our State Labor Government is good, they aren’t. But the state libs are atrocious

  307. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:21 pm

    So, instead of apologising, nil just calls everyone who proves he’s an idiot a liar

    Well is this guy telling lies??

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/holden-shutdown-general-motors-international-boss-stefan-jacoby-says-australia-is-better-without-car-manufacturing/news-story/af4de2d0090baa6c2a0ce24aa0e28729

    AUSTRALIA is better off without manufacturing and government incentives are no way to form a business, says Stefan Jacoby, the international General Motors executive who announced the closure of the Holden factory.

    In another startling revelation, Mr Jacoby also claims Mike Devereux, the Holden boss who fought to save Holden’s assembly line for two years and pushed for an increase of more than $200 million in government funding, was in fact in favour of the shutdown……..The decision was not made based on government policy. With or without government incentives, it doesn’t pencil,” he said. “Even if you add all the (government) incentives … it doesn’t make sense to produce (cars locally).”

  308. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:27 pm

    “Why don’t you try explaining how his arguments are wrong, rather than abusing him?”

    Because TheBigot ( White import from York) always does what he accuses others of

    He plays the man…….haven’t we all noticed the total hypocrisy

    Noel Pearson………..he’s Aboriginal……..what the fuck would he know ?

    Pearson should just get back in his place at the back of the bus

  309. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:28 pm

    I think I like this word.

    You keep using it, but do you know what it means?

  310. Have-You-No-Decency Sir? permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:30 pm

    ROLF at Tom R.

  311. Tom R permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:32 pm

    AUSTRALIA is better off without manufacturing and government incentives are no way to form a business, says Stefan Jacoby, the international General Motors executive who announced the closure of the Holden factory.

    And whose business back in America survives because of ….. government incentives 😉

    And I’m sure Devereux was in favour of leaving, once hockey told him to fuck off!

  312. It's Snark Outside permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:39 pm

    “Pearson should just get back in his place at the back of the bus”

    I think that’s his point. The ABC are happy to advocate for land rights etc, but those noble savages better not try and develop or mine that land. That might change their victimhood status.

    Green policies Trump indigenous problems every time.

  313. Snark The Herald Angels Sing permalink
    December 8, 2016 10:52 pm

    “He plays the man…….haven’t we all noticed the total hypocrisy”

    Yes, but he’s a protected species around here. He’s on the right correct side.

  314. Snark Of The Year permalink
    December 8, 2016 11:06 pm

  315. Walrus permalink
    December 8, 2016 11:31 pm

    When the cops start protesting ……..mmmmmm……. maybe you should recognise a problem

    http://www.thelocal.fr/20161018/paris-police-protest-on-the-champs-elysees

  316. TB Queensland permalink
    December 8, 2016 11:33 pm

    Obviously none of you read the Pearson link … just followed each other in The Charge of the Right Brigade … I didn’t make it partisan … Pearson did …

    First para …

    Noel Pearson has declared the “soft bigotry” of Australia’s progressive left in education, the environmental movement and media as “the most fundamental challenge to Indigenous reform in our country”.

    Because TheBigot ( White import from York) always does what he accuses others of

    Yeah wally …

  317. Snark My Words permalink
    December 8, 2016 11:36 pm

    Walrus, put your house on Marine Le Pen. She’s $3.50 at the moment.

  318. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 8, 2016 11:39 pm

    And I’m sure Devereux was in favour of leaving, once hockey told him to fuck off!

    But Hockey never did but it is what you want to believe. I am sure Holden head office made the decision to leave Australia once Ford announced they were leaving. Mike Devereux may or may not have known.

    Mr Jacoby added: “It was not a coincidence that our friends from Toyota followed (with a factory shutdown announcement) more or less two months later”.

    “Do you think they just (said) ‘Holden made this decision, now we have to make a decision as well’. No they had this in their pocket as well.”

  319. Snark Avenue permalink
    December 8, 2016 11:39 pm

    “Noel Pearson has declared the “soft bigotry” of Australia’s progressive left in education, the environmental movement and media as “the most fundamental challenge to Indigenous reform in our country”.

    Now explain how he’s wrong. Shouldn’t be too hard.

  320. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2016 6:44 am

    TB, you said Pearson is a typical Liberal. And your proof is that he’s critical of the ABC etc???

    You’re just proving exaxtly how partisan you are.

  321. December 9, 2016 7:26 am

    “Why don’t you try explaining how his arguments are wrong, rather than abusing him?”

    #ironyalert

  322. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 9, 2016 8:52 am

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/labor-spending-was-a-blow-to-economy-after-gfc-says-report/news-story/cf643cb89beac83cbdec6f27338556a7

    A damning Treasury-commissioned independent review of the former Labor government’s unprecedented spending response to the global financial crisis has found it was a “misconceived” waste of money, fundamentally weakened Australia’s economy, almost destroyed parts of the manufacturing sector and ­inflicted more long-term harm than good.

    The review is also scathing of government failure on both sides of politics to address the budget crisis triggered by the $100 billion fiscal stimulus project, which has saddled the nation with the ­fastest-growing public debt in the world. “There is no evidence fiscal stimulus benefited the economy over the medium term,” says the paper, to be released today.

  323. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2016 9:50 am

    So much for Wayne Swan

    From the OZ

    The first economic study of its kind into government fiscal stimulus policy, commissioned by Treasury secretary John Fraser and conducted by economist Tony Makin, argues that the stimulus rolled out by then prime minister Kevin Rudd and his treasurer, Wayne Swan, from late 2008 ultimately damaged the country’s competitiveness.

    “The government’s fiscal response to the GFC subsequently weakened the economy by contributing to the dollar’s strength, and by creating pervasive policy uncertainty about how the budget would be repaired,” the paper says. “In sum, the nature of Australia’s fiscal stimulus was misconceived because it emphasised transfers, unproductive expenditure such as school halls and pink batts, rather than tax relief and/or supply side reform, as occurred, for instance, in New Zealand, where marginal income tax rates were reduced, infrastructure was improved and the regulatory burden on business was lowered.

    “The scale of spending was unnecessarily large and subsequently proved counter-productive by working against keeping interest rates and the exchange rate lower for considerably longer, as ­occurred during the Asian crisis.

    “The damage done by the stimulus program also led to a decline in the viability of parts of the manufacturing sector, including the motor vehicle industry.”

  324. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2016 9:51 am

    Oh………NoS beat me to it

  325. December 9, 2016 10:02 am

    “#ironyalert”

    #cavalryalert

  326. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2016 10:30 am

    Now explain how he’s wrong. Shouldn’t be too hard.

    You explain what “soft bigotry” is first … then tell me where Pearson was educated/trained in pedagogy … curriculum and learning …

    A senior educator who oversaw the troubled Aurukun school has spoken out about what he says is the failure of an expensive and contentious education program backed by Noel Pearson.

    John Bray was executive principal at Pearson’s Cape York Academy for six months last year before quitting, in part over his disillusion with the effect of the multimillion-dollar “direct instruction” syllabus wholly imported from the US.

    Bray said the rigidly-scripted curriculum had compounded student disengagement in Aurukun, along with the “complete distrust” of the school by parents amid the punitive approach of welfare reforms. Both were contributing factors to events leading to the town’s schooling crisis, he said.

    Bray said touted literacy and numeracy improvements under the program when compared to other schools in Cape York with regular state funding did not justify the cost.

    “[Direct instruction] is inappropriate and the evidence is clear,” Bray told Guardian Australia.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/27/aurukun-imported-syllabus-partly-to-blame-for-school-closure-says-former-principal

    In the first decade of the 2000s, Pearson began outlining an alternative to traditional left-wing politics that he called radical centrism

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And for the record wally …

    I don’t make comments based upon a person’s race, colour, gender or age … in fact I’d hazard a guess that on this blog its primarily YOU.

    Because TheBigot ( White import from York) always does what he accuses others of

    He plays the man…….haven’t we all noticed the total hypocrisy

    Noel Pearson………..he’s Aboriginal……..what the fuck would he know ?

    Pearson should just get back in his place at the back of the bus

    I didn’t say or even think any of that … WALLY DID … living in Bubbleland …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    … and then the Snark kicks in with more …

    “Pearson should just get back in his place at the back of the bus”

    I think that’s his point.

    Yes, but he’s a protected species around here.

    You both need to build a bridge …

  327. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2016 10:46 am

    Speaking of irony …

    MALCOLM Turnbull’s hard-line stance on emissions trading could cost him his role as Prime Minister, South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill says.

    The gloves were off when the SA Premier arrived at Parliament House in Canberra today ahead of the final Council of Australian Governments meeting for 2016.

    Mr Weatherill vowed to fight for an emissions trading scheme at COAG after the Prime Minister ruled out any form of ETS or carbon tax earlier this week.

    “The Prime Minister lost his job in relation to this issue a few years ago,” Premier Weatherill said.

    “It would be a great irony if he were to lose his job for a second time on the other side of the debate.”

    Australia’s future energy security and climate change policy are shaping up to be the big issues when the Prime Minister meets the state premiers today.

    It comes at the end of an embarrassing week for Mr Turnbull after Environment and Energy Minister Josh Frydenberg on Monday announced a major review of the Government’s climate change policy would look at an energy intensity scheme for power companies — a form of carbon pricing.

    Mr Turnbull was forced to rule out any form of carbon tax or ETS being introduced on Wednesday after Liberal senator Cory Bernardi likened it to “ripping the scab off an old wound”.

    Turnbull was a staunch supporter of an emissions trading scheme as a way to cut greenhouse gas emissions as Opposition leader in 2009.

  328. Snarksmanship permalink
    December 9, 2016 11:03 am

    “You explain what “soft bigotry” is first … then tell me where Pearson was educated/trained in pedagogy … curriculum and learning …”

    If you say so.

    Your turn.

  329. Hammerhead Snark permalink
    December 9, 2016 11:31 am

    Trumpageddon: Dow zooms over 1,200 points since Trump victory

  330. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 9, 2016 11:46 am

    So much for Wayne Swan

    Walrus- you voted for him in 2007

  331. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 11:53 am

    So much for the lolstrayan

  332. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2016 11:57 am

    “You explain what “soft bigotry” is first … then tell me where Pearson was educated/trained in pedagogy … curriculum and learning …”

  333. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:01 pm

    Smartarsery and hijinks from the law student. It’s been a case of a privileged person refusing to play by the rules everyone else lives under.

    Court asked to close off search for origin of racist QUT Facebook post

  334. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:06 pm

    So TB, how does all of that at 10.30 justify your assertion that Pearson is a “typical Liberal”?

  335. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:16 pm

    In the past (a few years ago) I was involved with an indigenous organisation, in a voluntary capacity. It taught me a lot about understanding the culture, and some of the perspectives. I haven’t really commented on the subject over the past year or 2.

    But one of the things I learnt was the desire for many indigenous leaders to seek to find ways of-
    • Having more role models for young indigenous people beyond footballer
    • Gaining respect for culture through art and history
    • Seeking opportunity in employment and education

    If I was still involved with that organisation I’d ask about their views on this soft racism, and it is a fair point to raise.

    The ‘left’ media like to report on poverty, failure of programs, dispossession. I don’t notice the same coverage of positive role models, indigenous art and culture and success. That is there is very little positive reinforcement, just the stuff that reinforces the sense of failure and pointlessness. Arguably that perpetuates the problem by reinforcing the image

    Criticism of the ‘left’ media is entirely legitimate in that respect.

  336. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:17 pm

    If the use of a totally meaningless yet thoroughly aggressive term like “radical centrism” isn’t “typical Liberal” what is?

  337. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:21 pm

    I don’t notice the same coverage of positive role models, indigenous art and culture and success.

    Then look harder. (SBS is a good place to start) http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/

    Of course, perhaps the main reason for the disproportionate reporting of ” poverty, failure of programs, dispossession” in indigenous society might just have a correlation with the disproportionate existence of ” poverty, failure of programs, dispossession” in indigenous society.

    But you’ve volunteered, so you’d already be aware of that, wouldn’t ya yomm?

  338. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:29 pm

    Oh………NoS beat me to it

    Could That Be The Mailman
    Knockin’ On The Door
    Or Just Another Light Weight
    Finally Evening The Score
    You Know It

  339. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:30 pm

    “Court asked to close off search for origin of racist QUT Facebook post”

    So what’s your point ?

    The Court had already found that he could not and did not post the “N” word.

    Why should the court have to show anything now ?

    Its upto Cindy Prior to take action if she wants to continue. Let her pay for it from her own pocket. It’s not the Court’s job to unearth who really posted it.

    She cant even find a competent lawyer anyway

  340. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:31 pm

  341. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:34 pm

    TomR

    Do you think this is true?

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/holden-shutdown-general-motors-international-boss-stefan-jacoby-says-australia-is-better-without-car-manufacturing/news-story/af4de2d0090baa6c2a0ce24aa0e28729

    In another startling revelation, Mr Jacoby also claims Mike Devereux, the Holden boss who fought to save Holden’s assembly line for two years and pushed for an increase of more than $200 million in government funding, was in fact in favour of the shutdown.
    ..
    When asked if he disagreed with Mike Devereux’s public push to save the factory and secure an increase in government funding, Mr Jacoby said: “I didn’t know about that … I didn’t think he was a supporter of local manufacturing. I think Mike was supporting me in the decision to make the call actually to step out.”

    Was Mike Devereux telling lies?? Was he BSing us all?

  342. Under Cover Of Snarkness permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:37 pm

    “I don’t make comments based upon a person’s race, colour, gender or age …”

    You forgot religion.

    Oh, wait …

  343. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:43 pm

    Yeah! I heard a brief report about an indigenous film recently. That makes it all fine. And what’s the SBS audience again?

    … and now you know more about this issue than indigenous people that want to identify and reinforce positive roles models that aren’t just footballers?

    They’re probably “typical Liberals” too.

  344. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:44 pm

    Was Mike Devereux telling lies?? Was he BSing us all?

    Why don’t you look at the timeline nil

    Before hockey lost it in #qt, all the info was Holden wanted to stay, they had the figures.

    Once it became clear that the libs were not only going to not support workers, but actively seek to have them lose their jobs, then the story changed from Detroit. A Detroit that still wants to sell cars in the country.

    I’ll let you decide on who is saying what and for what reason.

    But the simple point is, the libs did not fight for Australian jobs. They actually went out of their way to undermine them. And now those jobs are going/gone.

    And now we have a possible recession.

    And libstralian wants us to believe some crap about GFC stimulus (crap that has been soundly debunked previously)

  345. Walrus permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:46 pm

    “And libstralian wants us to believe some crap about GFC stimulus”

    And Treasury wants us to believe some crap about GFC stimulus

    Fixed it for you

  346. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:49 pm

    And what’s the SBS audience again?

    The ‘left’ audience. (the one the ‘left media’ cater to) 😉

    They’re probably “typical Liberals” too.

    Well if they start spouting asinine statements like “radical centrism” I’d argue they are already there.

  347. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 12:50 pm

    And Treasury wants us to believe some crap about GFC stimulus

    Here’s what the said last time he wrote the same shit.

    RESPONSE TO PROFESSOR TONY MAKIN’S MINERALS COUNCIL OF AUSTRALIA MONOGRAPH – ‘AUSTRALIA’S COMPETITIVENESS: REVERSING THE SLIDE’

    https://www.treasury.gov.au/PublicationsAndMedia/Newsroom/Articles/2014/Response-to-Minerals-Council-of-Australia-Monograph

  348. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2016 1:37 pm

    I tend to think thoughtful indigenous leaders should be respected regardless of their political orientation.

    For example I don’t recall that I’ve dismissed any left leaning ones as ALP hacks. But apparently you and TB prefer to portfay Pearson as a “typical Liberal “

  349. December 9, 2016 1:37 pm

    “I don’t make comments based upon a person’s race, colour, gender or age …”
    You forgot religion.
    Oh, wait …

    Religion is a choice, while the others are not.

    But you already knew that.

  350. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 1:43 pm

    I tend to think thoughtful indigenous leaders should be respected regardless of their political orientation.

    I think they should be respected should they deserve it.

    Respect can be both earnt and lost. pearson has lost it, more so since he aligned himself with those who have done more to hurt the indigenous cause than any other.

  351. Snark And Chips permalink
    December 9, 2016 1:58 pm

    “Religion is a choice”

    I agree

  352. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 2:00 pm

    I agree

    I AGREE!

    (I’m pretty sure we are agreeing on the same thing. It’s hard to tell with all the Snark going around 😉 )

  353. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 9, 2016 2:00 pm

    TomR

    You are insane. Detroit had made up its mind. Keep believing falsehoods if you want to keep destroying Australian jobs

    When asked if he disagreed with Mike Devereux’s public push to save the factory and secure an increase in government funding, Mr Jacoby said: “I didn’t know about that … I didn’t think he was a supporter of local manufacturing. I think Mike was supporting me in the decision to make the call actually to step out

  354. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2016 2:07 pm

    Really? He makes some pointed observations based on his own experience as an indigenous person who works on indigenous issues.

    He’d clearly prefer to see different policies dealing with indigenous dispossession . And who could blame him, because the current approach hasn’t exactly been a resounding success. He’d also prefer to see the subject covered differently in the media, to wean it off the loser/victim identity that the left media currently promote

    But you obviously know much more about this issue. So does TB

  355. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2016 2:41 pm

    “You explain what “soft bigotry” is first … then tell me where Pearson was educated/trained in pedagogy … curriculum and learning …”

    If you say so.

    Your turn.

    That’s not an answer … you obviously didn’t read your own links … and I did say YOU explain ie in your words …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The ‘left’ media like to report on poverty, failure of programs, dispossession.

    Gee I think there is a recent Four Corners program that didn’t pull any punches and actually brought down a tory government … and generated a RC …

    As for working with Aboriginals you already know (or may recall) that I’ve worked with the Aboriginal culture with performing arts to mining across the country (and served with a full blood fellow nasho) …

    … the PNG Nationals have a similar problem with the clash between indigenous culture and Western culture … some cope well others struggle … just like any community …

    We should all be ashamed at the plight of many Aboriginal communities but Pearsons rant aisn’t going to help the cause … he’s just got onto the blame game trail … and that always leads us backwards not forwards …

    To simply blame soft bigotry from the left is not very clever coming from a well educated man like Pearson … he’s rightly passionate about learning – education is the answer to most of the problems in the world … but if an “experiment” fails … move on … don’t lambast others …

  356. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2016 2:57 pm

    So TB you might disagee with the approach Pearson suggests, but does that make him a typical Liberal ?

  357. Snark Raving Mad permalink
    December 9, 2016 3:00 pm

    “That’s not an answer … you obviously didn’t read your own links … and I did say YOU explain ie in your words …”

    Goodness, did you? How disobedient of me.

  358. Snarkotics Anonymous permalink
    December 9, 2016 3:07 pm

    “but does that make him a typical Liberal ?”

    Or “unhinged”?

  359. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 3:10 pm

    “but does that make him a typical Liberal ?”
    Or “unhinged”?

    Wait … what!

    Are you claiming there is a difference?

    fer nil

  360. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2016 3:39 pm

    Sometimes I wonder what you’re on about TB. Are you seriously suggesting that the people of PNG are disposed in the same way Aboriginal Australians are?

  361. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 9, 2016 3:40 pm

    fer nil

    According to the link i gave Mike Devereux had no interest in maintaining manufacturing in Australia

    I didn’t think he was a supporter of local manufacturing. I think Mike was supporting me in the decision to make the call actually to step out

  362. December 9, 2016 4:02 pm

    m2n8e b39rgs

    ltsGoingDown,,,,as ecological apocalypse lies on the horizon, all other signs point towards the continued growth of the wealth gap, inequality in all aspects, and amassing insecurity and precarity for workers and the poor. This is true in urban centers as it is in Appalachia. On a base line level, wages have stagnated or fallen, poverty and homelessness grow, gentrification runs rampant, and overall conditions have continued to erode for many Americans while the most wealthy have grown even richer. Moreover, repression on the streets of the US continues to ramp up, as the government continues to amass more powers of surveillance and spying, the prison population soars, police kill on average around 3 people per day, and law enforcement becomes more and more militarized. In short, for most people, things are getting worse, not better,,,,

    # ,, its quite a muddled post armchair. Has some great points (as-above) on how things are (we-are-heading) and great observations. l think there is a little teabag-panic in there too with the ku-klux-teabags. l recently saw(TV) there is so few ku-klux-teabags that if they `did` start something, the `crips` or the `bloods` would wipe`em out before plod had put down their donuts.

    # ,, on poor old noel, well he is a bit of a dcikhead that lacks judgement, teabagism only fcuks-over the majority on most topics, so why he thinks teabag is the solution/s for black-folk, mystifies me.

  363. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 4:39 pm

    I didn’t think he was a supporter of local manufacturing. I think Mike

    Mind you, as I said, it is the comments made in light of the time-line that I think is most telling.

    Oh, that, and the treasurer of the country told one of our largest manufacturers to FUCK OFF! that is pertinent

  364. Tom R permalink
    December 9, 2016 4:41 pm

  365. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2016 4:52 pm

    Are you seriously suggesting that the people of PNG are disposed in the same way Aboriginal Australians are?

    Disposed?

  366. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 9, 2016 5:32 pm

    dispossessed

  367. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 9, 2016 6:29 pm

  368. TB Queensland permalink
    December 9, 2016 7:13 pm

    dispossessed

    No … well in some ways yes … by the modern world …

    What I meant was that both societies (Aboriginal and PNG) are struggling with a transition from a subsistence culture to a Western culture … both structured very differently …

    … one relies on very personal close relationships and traditional processes to survive … the other based on competition personal possessions and individual success to survive …

    That’s very basic but I suspect you understand what I’m trying to say …

    As two examples:

    The PNG wontok system is the basis of their culture … if a person you know and are close to (a wontok – one talk) needs something and you have it and they ask you for it, you are obliged to give it to them …

    Any tribal land is owned by the women …

    Aboriginal clans have similar traditions … but based upon a nomadic lifestyle …

    Our culture is so far removed from theirs you can understand their difficulty (and ours)…

    Having said that, many do make the transition, and well … just not enough to allow them to manage change as it should be – with Aboriginals helping Aboriginals* …

    (As an aside – we have two very close friends who are Aboriginal – and I still often struggle with how they “think” about some issues in quite a different way to me)

    *I know you’ll say that’s exactly what Pearson is doing … 😉

  369. December 9, 2016 8:38 pm

    w9fm3 j4gs5r

    tweet,,,,Former bank boss David Murray warns of,,,,

    # ,, ex-witch-banker aint even telling the half of it. Big, big credit card bubble too. Don`t forget the junk-jobbers.

    tweet,,,,as Guthrie became very defensive and,,,,

    # ,, good to see some of the folks at my abc burr-up and buck. Stacking more limited-news teabags in to dumb-down and wreck my abc. Just wish they had the nads to go public, on record and full throttle about the white anting.

  370. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2016 8:25 am

    TB, all the explanations don’t after the fact that you said Pearson was a typical Liberal

    And that’s just crap

  371. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2016 8:26 am

    round & round they go!

    Xenophon criticises Stephen Conroy’s new job as gambling lobbyist
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/09/xenophon-criticises-stephen-conroys-new-job-at-gaming-lobbyist

    Do you pay more tax than Australia’s biggest companies?
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2016/dec/10/do-you-pay-more-tax-than-australias-biggest-companies

    Political donations and party funding: which industries give the most?
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2016/dec/07/political-donations-and-party-funding-which-industries-give-the-most

  372. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2016 10:11 am

    TB, all the explanations don’t after the fact that you said Pearson was a typical Liberal

    And that’s just crap

    I think you meant “alter” …

    So its naming Pearson a Liberal that bothers you …

    Noel Pearson has declared the “soft bigotry” of Australia’s progressive left in education, the environmental movement and media as “the most fundamental challenge to Indigenous reform in our country”.

    He didn’t he say …

    “hard bigotry” of Australia’s regressive right in education …”

    Because while he originally leaned to the left, he now attacks it at any opportunity … and leans heavily to the right … only one major party leans right in Australia … the Liberals …

    Ergo …

  373. Tom R permalink
    December 10, 2016 12:54 pm

    Xenophon criticises Stephen Conroy’s new job as gambling lobbyist

    And yet will probably do more for for problem gamblers than Xenophon has already done (which is a fair amount, but very localised and limited)

    Xenophon should stick with pokies, and try and help people like Conroy make positive changes from within, rather than sniping from the sidelines about Wind Farms etc, which he has no idea about.

  374. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2016 1:51 pm

    Just the fact that noel Pearson is rolled out by the libs at every opportunity as their “go to” aboriginal person is enough for me to suspect his ideology fits with them better. Oh, and that his views aren’t shared by many other aboriginals.

  375. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2016 1:52 pm

    So TB, hard bigotry is “typical Liberal” and there’s none of that in the ALP or other parties?

    So far you haven’t provided ANY justification for that slight, you’ve only continued to demonstrate that you are partisan first, second and third and your semblance of rationality comes about fourth.

  376. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 10, 2016 1:54 pm

    i>Just the fact that noel Pearson is rolled out by the libs

    And the ALP luminaries didn’t find it convenient to have him speak at Whitlam’s funeral? Now you’re lapsing into crap too AO.

  377. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2016 5:19 pm

    So far you haven’t provided ANY justification for that slight, you’ve only continued to demonstrate that you are partisan first, second and third and your semblance of rationality comes about fourth.

    Why thank you sir, could please at least have a D, sir … please sir …

    WTF do you think you are?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    Now you’re lapsing into crap too AO.

    No you are … your own ideology is getting in the way of how Pearson has changed … after all Whitlam is no longer with us … or Pearson …

  378. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2016 5:29 pm

    So TB, hard bigotry is “typical Liberal” and there’s none of that in the ALP or other parties?

    So far you haven’t provided ANY justification for that slight …

    And BTW “slight” to whom? You the hard right bigots?

    No-one answers to you here … my opinion stands …

    Pearson’s speech sounds quite unhinged and to blame the “soft bigotry of the left” for his failed cause after being called out by a specialist who actually works in the field demonstrates it …

    The “soft left” have done far more for education for all kids in this country than the “hard right” piddling about ideologically with the Gonski Report and its funding …

    MALfunction put it quite bluntly the Feds would fund the private and religious schools and the States could fund state schools … that’s not soft anything that’s hard core …

    Whimp all you like … Pearson attacked the left and left the right alone … wonder why …

    Who supposedly runs the Kanberra Kindergarten these days? Not the soft left … turn hard right here >>>>>>>>>

  379. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 10, 2016 8:11 pm

  380. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2016 8:19 pm

    Did I say TurnAbbott wouldn’t see his full term?

    What we want is a DD! When do we want it … !!!

  381. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 10, 2016 9:13 pm

    What we want is a DD! When do we want it … !!!

    Don’t worry TB it looks like you can get back to locking up children again. The Australian Labor Party locked up 8,469 children last time. Next time i am sure the ALP will try and break that record. Maybe the ALP will aim to lock up 20,000 children next time.

  382. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2016 9:30 pm

    Don’t worry TB it looks like you can get back to locking up children again.

    Don’t be a FUCKWIT©, neel, I’ve never locked a child up in my life and never will … but ask Dopey Dutton what he does and he won’t tell you … operational secrets or some other shyte!

    Its fun talking to my alter ego … wally, must enjoy it, it was his weird conspiracy theory …

  383. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 10, 2016 9:42 pm

    Don’t be a FUCKWIT©, neel, I’ve never locked a child up in my life and never will …

    Yes you did. You locked up 8,469 children from 2007-2013 when you voted for Rudd.

    If Labor gets back in they will do it again.

  384. TB Queensland permalink
    December 10, 2016 10:05 pm

    Don’t be a DICKHEAD™ all your life … just start living clean …

  385. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 10, 2016 10:24 pm

    TB- you locked up 50,000 people from 2007-2013. Because that is what socialists do.

  386. December 11, 2016 8:45 am

    “TB- you locked up 50,000 people from 2007-2013.”

    Imagine having to carry around all those keys.

  387. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2016 12:49 pm

    TB- you locked up 50,000 people from 2007-2013.

    By that logic, nils been torturing them ever since

  388. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    December 11, 2016 4:48 pm

    If Pearson is a typical Liberal they may have some intelligence and insight! Cory Bernadi wouldn’t be pleased

    On the other hand… perhaps TB just posts crap sometimes.

  389. Tom R permalink
    December 11, 2016 5:03 pm

    If Pearson is a typical Liberal they may have some intelligence and insight!

    LINK!

  390. TB Queensland permalink
    December 11, 2016 5:13 pm

    On the other hand… perhaps ToM just posts crap sometimes.

    Fixed … !

    Want a link(s)? BOO!

  391. December 11, 2016 7:28 pm

    So,,,,far you haven`t provided ANY justification for that slight, you`ve only continued to demonstrate that you are partisan first, second and third,,,,

    # ,, Sounds familiar. #pot.kettle

  392. December 11, 2016 8:02 pm

    tweet,,,,So many articles in the last 24 hours ,, Turnbull`s a dud. https://t.co/mJimbMqMzc (#smh),,,,

    smh,,,,New Malcolm panicked and took options off the table. He did it on tax. This week he did it on climate policy. In doing so he humiliated his cabinet minister, ignored expert advice, and overruled the electricity industry. There is no maturity and no rationality. All because he`s fearful of his conservative colleagues,,,,

    # ,, this post is a working example of those that were part of the swooning echo chamber trying to change from top-gear into reverse. At fairfax they are still not acknowledging or/and understanding that talkbull is `exactly` where is, first and foremost, because of his `own` huge EGO.

    # ,, the puffed-up prick has no judgement, no nads, no leadership ability and no godwin gretch to cover his arse and take the blame for him. The zombies knew they had talkbull by the nads when rabbit offered him the job of filling the fiber network with copper, and he was stupid enough to take it. The braying-media still haven`t worked that out either.

  393. armchair opinionator permalink
    December 11, 2016 9:59 pm

  394. Neil of Sydney permalink
    December 12, 2016 9:30 am

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/10/worlds-oldest-known-seabird-lays-an-egg-at-age-of-66

    The world’s oldest known seabird is expecting – again.

    Biologists spotted the Laysan albatross called Wisdom at Midway Atoll national wildlife refuge earlier this month after she returned to the island to nest.

    She was incubating an egg at the same nest she uses each year with her mate. She’s believed to be 66 years old. She’s also the world’s oldest known breeding bird in the wild.

  395. Walrus permalink
    December 12, 2016 3:46 pm

    Boo !

  396. TB Queensland permalink
    December 12, 2016 4:54 pm

  397. TB Queensland permalink
    December 12, 2016 4:55 pm

    Yep!

    Bloody question mark!

  398. December 19, 2016 7:05 pm

    guardian,,,,A pioneering wave power company says it is building its first commercial wave plant in Cornwall, England because the policy support for renewable energy there is more enticing than the climate policy chaos in Australia.

    Mike Ottaviano, chief executive of ASX-listed Carnegie Wave Energy, said the company was divorcing itself from political uncertainty over renewable energy in Australia by diversifying geographically and technologically,,,,

    # ,, another one bites the dust armchair #`innovation` (-:

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