The Prime Preacher Scott Morrison, has declared Bill Shorten’s plan to fund schools and hospitals as a plan for Australians to simply pay more tax.
Is he right…?
Or is it just bullshit…?
A quick historical check confirms that LNP led governments have been the highest taxing governments since 1973.
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theguttertrash.com 
funding schools and hospitals! the hide of them!
Or is it just bullshit…?
Is it possible it could be anything but, going on the record of who said it?
Highest taxing? Strange. Lefties said the Howard/Costello tax cuts destroyed the budget.
Howard would have got more tax revenue because unemployment went from 8% to 4% under Howard meaning income tax receipts rose for the Howard govt. Doesn’t mean he taxed more
Its not so much how much tax they collect but how they spend it …
Remember Hockey “giving” $9 billion to the RBA – who said they didn’t need it.
$444,000,000 “gift” to mates …
$84 billion (planned) to give to The Robber Barons …
And … How Much! For catholic schools again?
Ha–ppy happy clap … happy clap! (crap?)
Yes, it’s amazing how the tax take falls during a recession!
falls during a recession!
Hang on, I thought nothing happened?
Wasn’t it the recession we didn’t have?
Labor just spent money for no reason?
Ok – you’re right – we didn’t have a recession during the Rudd government – only an economic emergency.
I suppose revenue can fall during an economic emergency too.
I suppose revenue can fall during an economic emergency too.
What does GDP measure again?
… only an economic emergency …
only?! it was fkn huge in this household and we knew it was coming!
(I vividly recall the razzing John McPhilbin and I got at Blogocracy!)
TB
The ALP are the experts in wasteful spending. The Reserve Bank did want that $9B because their reserves had been depleted. They had asked the Commonwealth govt not to take out dividends from them because their reserves were low. But Swan did it anyway.
But nothing beats the wasteful spending of $10B-$20B housing the 50,000 boat people the ALP had locked up plus $1B/year since 2013 on the 20,000 in community detention.
This was a problem John Howard had solved and Labor restarted
Actually reb, l am pretty skeptical this metric has much/any merit. lt makes bugger all difference to productivity and economic metrics what the headline taxrate is; as teabags keep adding loopholes each term/year; which the richest don`t pay anyway. Productivity cannot be lifted while govt/s keep squandering on wasteful spends (wireCo, and jonestown cityrail at dawn of driverless-pod age) and strangling consumption from the bottom; where there is no bang for buck.
The ALP are the experts in wasteful spending.
Yer a dick, Dick!
Funny how GDP is used by the conservatives when they want to spruke their successes but then simply deny it is a measure of taxation when it does not suit their agenda. If Morrison claims that they will reduce tax as a proportion of GDP and that means less tax, then why do the figures you provide not prove that they are the highest taxing previous governments ?
Can’t have it both ways !
Can’t have it both ways !
Can To! (is how their argument will go 😉 )
Shane
Because it makes no sense. Howard was accused of destroying the budget because of his tax cuts. This tax/GDP ratio as a measure of taxation showing Howard taxed more was introduced by Koukoulas to demonise Howard. Poor lefties spend most of their time trying to trash Howards record.
It make more sense that Howard got more tax because people were paying more tax because of a booming economy. Unemployment fell from 8% to 4% meaning hundreds of thousands of more people were paying tax and companies were more profitable
It make more sense that Howard got more tax because people were paying more tax because of a booming economy
Well there’s a first … finally …
In comments past the boom was in Gillard’s reign … according to Dick …
Well look at the graph under keatings head and Rudds head. There was a drop in the tax/GDP ratio. I doubt that was because they abolished some taxes. Revenue dropped because there was a recession going on. I don’t think tax/GDP ratio measures how many taxes a govt introduces
https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2018/mar/08/australia-isnt-in-recession-but-we-might-as-well-be
On a long enough time-line the survival rate for every primate falls to zero. The ipcc reckon the kiddies time-line is getting shorter.
There was a drop in the tax/GDP ratio
Its not a ratio its a percentage … “tax as a percentage of GDP” … if you look closely you’ll see that John Winston took 23.5% of GDP* … compared to … a range between 19% and just over 21% …
* not that he did much for the country with it … but a lot of pork-barreling …
Ratio/percentage? You people are pedantic. But did Howard tax more by introducing more taxes or did he get more tax revenue because of a booming economy?
The story used to be that Howard tax cuts destroyed the budget. The new story invented by Koukoulas was that Howard taxed the crap out of people and anybody could run a surplus budget if they taxed like Howard. I find it amusing the time lefties spend thinking up stories trying to trash Howard
Howard did a lot more than Hawke/Keating did. Like all lefties telling the truth is very hard for you
But did Howard tax more …
YES! 23.5% compared to 21.7% (the highest of the others) …
Howard did a lot more than Hawke/Keating did.
NO! Unless you can tell me how – with links?
Like all hard on Tories telling the truth is very hard for you
Its always Labor’s fault (or anyone else in the firing line) …
Dick, yer a dick …
If Howard did tax more what taxes did he raise? I guess you could say he introduced the GST. All I can remember years ago ALP supporters saying the Howard/Costello tax cuts destroyed the budget. New story which emerged a few years later by Koukoulas was that Howard taxed the crap out of people and anybody could run a surplus budget if they taxed like Howard.
I think it makes more sense to say Howard got more tax because more people were paying tax as unemployment went from 8% to 4% under Howard
If you have more people paying tax, the government is likely to collect more tax.
Is there anything contentious in that suggestion?
Is there anything contentious in that suggestion?
No … but I thought even you would understand the difference between percentage and raw numbers …
There is no reference to the “amount” of tax … just the percentage of tax …
Astounding …
Is there anything contentious in that suggestion?
Nothing
WTF does it have to do with this is anyones guess?
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/05/john-howard-king-big-government/
Alan Jones apologises to Opera House boss over The Everest controversy
SACK HIM!!
———————–
Yes, it just happens that we had a couple of economic downturns while the ALP was in government and some growth while the Liberals were in.
it just happens that we had a couple of economic downturns while the ALP was in government and some growth while the Liberals were in.
I’m looking for the ‘growth’ we are supposed to be having. Did you read grogs (Greg Jericho’s) column that I linked to?
The hate these assholes contain is boundless
Gay students and teachers could be rejected by religious schools under changes to anti-discrimination laws being recommended by a federal review into religious freedom, according to a media report.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/10/gay-students-could-be-rejected-by-religious-schools-under-new-laws-report-claims
We should be arguing if we should be blowing my hard earned on these incubators of hate, not if they can hurt people even more.
TB “not a ratio its a percentage .. “tax as a percentage of GDP” @correct
But is gdp really a usesful metric?? Or is as useful as mythical ilo `unemployment` numbers??
DEFINITION The OECD defines GDP as “an aggregate measure of production equal to the sum of the gross values added of all resident and institutional units engaged in production (plus any taxes, and minus any subsidies, on products not included in the value of their outputs).
An IMF publication states that “GDP measures the monetary value of final goods and services , that are bought by the final user , produced in a country in a given period of time (say a quarter or a year).”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product
(further down)
G ” (government spending) is the sum of government expenditures on final goods and services. It includes salaries of public servants, purchases of weapons for the military and any investment expenditure by a government. It does not include any transfer payments, such as social security or unemployment benefits.”
This metric may have been useful back when invented, and the goods/services that were purchased by govt or public were (positive) needed, wanted and useful goods/services.
Now consider this. The fiberCo spend (positive) was added to gdp. But so is the (negative/waste) wireCo spend added to gdp. Really, how can all the waste (negative spends) by govt/s added to gdp mean anything other than; gdp is another totally useless metric??
David Pope is a genius
Gay students and teachers could be rejected by religious schools
Wonder what they would say if all catholic children were excluded from public schools?
Don’t ya just love religious inclusiveness and egalitarianism hypocrisy …
JC is really getting dizzy on that cross …
TomR
Your link is a load of garbage. It said this
“However, no such excuses can be made for the Howard Government. It presided over near perfect macroeconomic conditions both locally and abroad, but managed to piss the proceeds away
Piss what away? Howard paid off $96B of debt started a $80B Future Fund and left $40B in the kitty. Howard saved more than $200B in just 11 years
The Howard Government was also fortunate to preside over the most lucrative part of the resources boom when commodity prices and the terms-of-trade exploded, providing the key impetus for the rising disposable incomes and Budget surpluses:
The best terms of trade and the biggest mining boom happened from 2008-2013 ie under Rudd/Gillard. Commodity prices are still higher than any time under Howard.
Leith van Onselen like most ALP supporters is a lying SOS
I think it’s an interesting point about the religious schools (but typically TB can’t help displaying his bigotry)
I suspect most people that pay to send their children to private schools aren’t really looking for religious instruction, and they’s be horrified if the schools had a policy of excluding teachers based on their sexual orientation.
Certainly I wouldn’t allow my kids to attend a school with that policy regarding employment criteria
I think it’s an interesting point about the religious schools
I think it’s a disgusting turn of events (but not surprising)
we really need to stop funding these regressive asshats
(but typically TB can’t help displaying his bigotry)
Sorry about your sensitivities, ToM, but my highlighting the catholic church in this way (it applies equally to all religions) has deep, disturbing and damaging foundations in Australia – indeed the world.
You might say … Wonder what they would say if all religious children were excluded from public schools? … if it makes your coffee taste nicer …
Certainly I wouldn’t allow my kids to attend a school with that policy regarding employment criteria
But the report isn’t about you is it … or do you really think you speak for thousands?
If the Recommendations are accepted (don’t forget who our new Prime Preacher is – clever call sreb!) … will you commit now to removing your children from their religious school.
I suspect most people that pay to send their children to private schools aren’t really looking for religious instruction
Sometimes, ToM, you make the most naive comments … rich religious people send their kids to rich religious schools … that WE now support too.
What a fkn world … 15th Century … next we’ll be dealing with a global plague … oh, wait!
“I think it’s an interesting point about the religious schools”
That’s an incredibly mild way of putting it.
“Scott Morrison has defended the recommendation, claiming that it is the “existing law” that religious schools can turn away gay students, despite several states banning the practice.”
Hang on… A few weeks ago Morriscum insisted that he wasn’t going to let his religious beliefs affect his decision-making as PM… That lasted what, 5 minutes?
“I suspect most people that pay to send their children to private schools aren’t really looking for religious instruction.
Then why do you suspect most people do, for the complimentary lessons in entrenched bigotry perhaps..?
Then why do you suspect most people do
In my view, because they are far better able to provide better teaching environments, because of the ballsed up policies that take money from public and dole it out to private.
And then the public schools just get dumped with the leftovers, in all respects, and have to cope with it as best they can
Yes, I think I recently provided the definition of a bigot, and there are a couple here
Any religion that scapegoats children on the basis of their sexuality is a wicked religion with evil intentions.
And should not be funded by taxpayers
“I think I recently provided the definition of a bigot, and there are a couple here”
In the context of the current discussion, I don’t recall any State schools insisting that christian kids should be expelled because of their religion.
I haven’t checked so which are the religious schools that are insisting on expulsion?
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That’s interesting, which schools intend to expel students based on their sexuality? Or which are advocating this?
“I haven’t checked so which are the religious schools that are insisting on expulsion?”
And an atheist is welcome I take it? Agnostic with open arms?
As for bigot …
… a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions …
Its not opinions I’m pissed off about its ACTIONS … that have been going on for millennia … and the people that condone/defend them … ToM
So can you advise which schools are advocating expelling students based on their sexuality?
ToM
It doesn’t bloody well matter which schools are advocating explusion, the law should not exist and if it does it should be removed!!!
It gives opportunity that should not be available in any shape of form.
The vote to legalise same sex marriage was overwhelming, yet the conservative right seem to think they still have the ability to overide and or ignore decisions made by the people.
It is an utter disgrace and a pox on these white old farts who live in the dark ages.
Lets have a referendum on it and see what happens.
This is supposed to be a democracy after all !!!!
So can you advise which schools are advocating expelling students based on their sexuality?
You understand this ‘freedom’ for religions to be assholes is being kept secret, don’t you yomm?
I don’t think the law should allow this discrimination Shane – but some seem to blame the schools, which is why I have suggested they identify them,
Whereas I think this is probably an agenda item of Abbott, Andrew & Abetz types
Who is blaming the schools ?.
Having asked that, who are advocating this law, if not the religious organisations that control, operate and profit from these schools ?
Who initiated this review and who are the ones who proposed these laws, along with whatever else is in this report?
Do we have names and details of who submitted to the Ruddock review and what they proposed, or is that so top secret as well?
All I see here is people saying it is wrong. I also have no doubt that any records would be deemed commercial in confidence by the LNP to make sure any decision around sexuality is protected and hidden.
If you are funded by taxpayers money, then you educate ALL. If you don’t want to educate all then you do it on your own. Still have a choice but the rest of us do not fund your discrimination.
No worries then. Please advise of which religion has advocated excluding kids from school based on their sexuality.
Maybe I’ve missed that press release or statement
How do we know? We haven’t been told who made submissions. However if it is religious schools that are advocating to be able to do this then it IS a religion.
What does it matter what religion ?
ToM
Read the media release from the attorney general that Tom R has posted above and read the second paragraph. Especially the words “consistent with the tenets of their religion”
Now tell me it is not religions.
“Maybe I’ve missed that press release or statement”
Maybe you’ve missed the fact that religious schools can discriminate against gay students under law today. The point is the Ruddock review calls for a new bill to be put to parliament to cement and codify this.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/how-religion-will-divide-the-liberals-and-inflame-the-parliament-20181010-p508qs.html
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I see, so it is politicians that are making the case.
I think I said that earlier.
yomms quick on the case sometimes 😦
Religious Politicians I would say.
“yomms quick on the case sometimes”
Sometimes.. Other times he’s quick to run off on a wild goose chase…
yomms quick on the case sometimes 😦
I could just see him negotiating with a union … lots of wide eyes and head shaking … and that would be management …
Pedantic is not the right word … so many others tho’ …
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
you’re looking younger these days, sreb … has the knot been tied yet?
I was hoping to pop down to Melbourne and throw some rice … HARD!
Fairfax Media is obviously controlled by a gang of bigots!
Look maybe YoM has a point. Catholic Schools need to preserve their religious freedoms.
How else are the younger generation meant to learn about the talking donkey..?
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.imgur.com/nKCL5gV.png&imgrefurl=http://godlessdoctrine.com/2014/04/&h=480&w=480&tbnid=gNVLfOW2H3owZM&tbnh=225&tbnw=225&usg=AI4_-kTALocd5HfKw3Cx8eXRAESd0L2_Ow&vet=1&docid=M5x4fgx7whyEhM
“Nothing says ‘religious freedom’ like amending the law to allow discrimination.”
~Ben Eltham
An outbreak of slomophobia will provide the perfect cover to draw outrage away from the ipcc report. The legacy outlets will overstimulate all those boltwannabees; Which religion? Which priest? Which school? and animate the andrews, rabbit, abetz monkeypod and skyfairy herd of imbecile. Resulting in the pinkist and greenist concluded outrage for; magots beating on fagots; sorting steers from queers; jews and niggers will be next! This should distract everybody for the week.
This is always the page I turned to when my children and grandchildren were bored … *
Luckily they worked out the BS themselves and now consider me a hero … funny but a hero … the genes R strong!
Which religion? Which priest? Which school?
Surely that’s a quote and should be attributed to ToM …
I am a bit disappointed that Wally hasn’t turned up (being a non-Catholic) but delighting in accusing me of bigotry … ahhhh … its tax time (for rich folks – plebs get it in as quickly as they can – to support Australia – dem rich folks is smarter and work up da perks) and the shearers are busy shearing the lambs … and anyone who gets near the shears …
An RC into tax “advisors” would be interesting … don’t hold yer breathe – they don’t even need to pay the pollies … essential services for multi millionaire pollies with $AUD seeded away overseas …
Always struck me as odd that The Mad Abbott (as PM) still had a mortgage on his family home … incompetent or fiddler?
*Just kidding … I’m not that cruel … 🙂
So… apparently they already have the right to expel gay students and discriminate against gsy teachers… but so far we can’t indetify a school that advocates this
Maybe just a couple of cases where this has occurred?
delighting in accusing me of bigotry
Allow me… you’re a bigot!
So apparently calling out christians for their bigotry is bigotry. Who knew.
Allow me … no, I won’t … I’m agnostic … you are the bigot … !
This is all about religious intolerance of one group of people in our society … (led by the catholic church …)
I accept that some people are enraptured of the sky fairies (sad/amusing tho’ that is) … I accept that some people are sexually diverse (and if the skyfairy followers were intelligent enough would figure out that they are part of their gods’ plan – to test their tolerance*?)… I accept that this country is filled with diversity of culture, religion, refugees, migrants and races and bloody good food! … and enjoy learning from them … and the folk I have had the privilege to interact with overseas …
You really think I don’t get your passive aggressive comments? … just what religion do you subscribe to? And why are you “defending” a religious attack on LGBTI citizens …
Answer: You and your kind are still locked into 1040AD (or earlier) and can’t scrabble out of the swamp you created …
FFS grow up … its not about you and me … its about human beings and everyone’s right to live in our society without fear – or favour (high ideals I know – but I believe that) … all they have to do is obey our laws … and that’s the rub LIBERALS ain’t so Liberal … they want to manipulate the laws to their Christian beliefs … this IS a declared secular country … but it doesn’t feel like one to me …
And I have noticed for some time ToM that you pre-empt many stories that emanate from the Liberal camp … I get their emails too!
*Maybe you’ll all end up in purgatory! Forever! (I know that’s an oxymoron too)
TB
What is your opinion about polygamy? It has been practised for thousands of years and is legal today in many countries. Islam allows polygamy and lots of Islamic people would like the legal right to marry 3 or 4 wives in Australia.
Do you think this should be allowed or are you an intolerant bigot?
I really don’t know what you’re on about. You and TB talk about rwligious schools without being able to cite any.
MranwhilebI’ve already said it’s politicians like Abbott, Andrews and Abetz
I suppose you’ve finally caught up.
“I really don’t know what you’re on about. You and TB talk about rwligious schools without being able to cite any.”
Right. So I guess that means Derryn Hinch doesn’t know what he’s on about either.
In fact, why are we even having this discussion if you think there’s nothing to see here. 🙄 🙄
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Did you ever lose a job because you were a Christian?
Did you ever get expelled from school because you were a Christian?
Did you ever miss out on a job interview that you were well qualified for because you were a Christian?
Did you ever get stopped in the street by police and interrogated because you were a Christian?
Were you ever refused service in a shop because you were a Christian?
Did you ever get beaten up in school because you were a Christian?
If you have never had these things happen to you, then you are not the subject of persecution.
LGBTQI people and people of colour have these things happen to them every day and too often the perpetrators justify their persecution with reference to the Christian faith.
Whoa!
Do you think this should be allowed or are you an intolerant bigot?
Yer a dick, Dick …
Here you go YoM..
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At least we know where ToM sits on this debate.
I think you’re boxing at shadows. At no stage have I said schools should have the right to discriminate against gay students or teachers, and it is more than disingenuous to suggest I have.
I’ve simply pointed out that this is a political agenda by Abbott, Andrew, Abetz types – not the schools. There are types that thrive on the creation of division.
And I suppose this is objectionable?
The Catholic school sector says it welcomes staff and students from all backgrounds and has not sought concessions to discriminate against students or teachers based on their sexuality, gender identity or relationship status.
The president of the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference, Archbishop Mark Coleridge, said all people should be considered equally for employment or enrolment.
Archbishop Coleridge, who made a submission to the review on behalf of the entire Catholic Church, said “we have not sought concessions to discriminate against students or teachers based on their sexuality, gender identity or relationship status”.
“Catholic schools welcome staff and students from all backgrounds who are willing to accept the declared mission and values of the school community,” he said.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/catholic-schools-say-they-don-t-discriminate-on-sexuality-20181010-p508vp.html
Of course he is inflicted with some flavor of skyfairy. He always jumps into a boltwannabee style of skyfairy defence at every chance. No priest is too pedo for him. No bigotry too unjust for him.
____
Google “ will shut down the consumer version of its failed social network Google+ and tighten its data sharing policies after announcing on Monday that private profile data of at least 500,000 users may have been exposed to hundreds of external developers. ”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-data/alphabet-to-shut-google-social-site-after-user-data-exposed-idUSKCN1MI1WM
ToM
The existing law should not exist, if you receive funding from a secular government for education, then you should be secular in your employment and student enrollment. End of story.
If, in the past, the ALP have agreed with the existing law then they are just as hypocritical as the LNP and it shows the entrenched religious influence in our government and the laws it enacts.
Lets have a referendum on the current law. I have no doubt it would be to remove the current law, based on the ssm result.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/feb/14/christian-schools-australia-defends-right-to-hire-and-fire-teachers-over-beliefs
Fine Shane that wasn’t the point in question – TB and reb were arguing that it was schools seeking the right to discriminate. Whereas I don’t think there is evidence of this.
There is evidence of politicians using it as a divisive issue.
TB
Your link answers all ToM questions even who has sacked a teacher in the last paragraph.
The outbreak of slomophobia only confirms my prediction that there is no difference who is zombie leader; and now proves slomo is another weak dud pretending to lead rabbitGovt3 and having to panda to rabbit and tools.
Sorry shane don`t need to bother reading tb`s link. lt is bleeding obvious to folks with a tenth of a brain in their heads that; abetz, rabbit, andrews and a couple of other clowntown imbecile are sponsored by skyfairy outfits dabbling in education and pushing for bigotry exceptions. Just not obvious to inHouseThree who is providing serious challenge to inHouseOne for the crown of stoopid.
Teabag
ToM asked for evidence and TB link provides it.
I’d support banning any discrimination based on sexual orientation, but I think the issue is being used by politicians to be divisive.
… but I think the issue is being used by politicians to be divisive.
Please explain … ?
Your link answers all ToM questions even who has sacked a teacher in the last paragraph.
And what some people don’t realise is that Federal Law over-rides State/Territory Law
I reckon that’s the “sneaky” bit … to my knowledge only Queensland and Tasmania have laws preventing dismissal for sexual orientation … so often called the backward states. hey?
Shane, no doubt tb`s ‘evidence link’ is good, fitting or proper. Considering the john-w leftovers; abetz, rabbit, andrews are longterm teabags, l did not ‘need’ evidence as l have enough brains to understand these teabags are afflicted with skyfairy and sponsored by skyfairy outfits. Surely you did not ‘need’ evidence either, nor reb, nor tb.
There are politicians who seek to appeal to religious zealots.
They are also bigots
ToM
I agree there are, but you asked for evidence and TB link gave it to you, even the names of those wanting these laws and even the name of a school that sacked a teacher !
Fine, I hadn’t heard of the case, but TB typically refers to catholics (that’s his default setting)
Was that proof of TB’s permanent complaint about catholics?
TB and reb don’t differentiate between catholics and their hierarchy. Here is an example of the reason that differentiation between catholics and the hierarchy is reasonable –
Catholics defy church leadership to become biggest backers of same-sex marriage: poll
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/catholics-defy-church-leadership-to-become-biggest-backers-of-samesex-marriage-poll-20170825-gy49ea.html
TB’s contention is that they are part of the club and can therefore have to put up with the opprobrium. He said as much a few days ago.
I don’t see it like that
But at least this is one issue (I’m sure) we will all agree on – the leader of firefighter’s union is a bully.
The United Firefighters Union (UFU) has pulled out of the Victorian Trades Hall Council after being urged by other unions to rein in attacks on Labor MP Jane Garrett.
She claimed she was bullied by the union during negotiations in a bitter industrial dispute.
Mr Marshall also vehemently opposed her preselection into an Upper House seat ahead of Victoria’s November state election.
The UFU’s decision to step away from the state’s peak body for labour organisations came as another union called for the “relentless bullying” of Ms Garrett to stop.
“This matter is one we as a movement, can no longer stay silent on,” said secretary of the Rail, Tram and Bus Union (RTBU) Luba Grigorovitch.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-11/firefighters-exit-trades-hall-amid-bullying-claims-jane-garrett/10363068
ToM
I was raised a catholic in a strict catholic family. I think you will find that when reb and TB refer to catholics they are talking about the religion and its leaders, not its congregtion. I think it is all fairytale nonsense now.
ToM
I do agree RE the UFU, however I was exposed to far more bullying and harassment from management than any union representative.
I haven’t noticed TB make the distinction. He says things like –
If you “belong” you own the responsibility … and the blame.
If you “belong” you own the responsibility … and the blame.
Or … you can denounce the organisational wrongdoing … or leave the organisation …
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/11/afp-search-raids-affairs-department-peter-dutton-au-pair-visa-leaks
So the Whistleblower is being “investigated”? Not the Suspect?
Intimidation springs to mind here …
And whatever happened to Michaelia “The Mouth” Cash and her AFP raid tip off?
r … you can denounce the organisational wrongdoing …
I see, and when you made that comment, we were discussing child molestation, and the pope (for example) denounced the organisational wrongdoing, so I suppose you’ll leave it at that.
Then secular (state) schools should have the right to discriminate and terminate chaplains and employ qualified counsellors …
Religious bodies want a bet each way … have their cake and eat it … they
DOSHOULD NOT run the country!https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/11/ruddock-religious-freedom-review-what-is-it-and-what-do-we-know-so-far
… so I suppose you’ll leave it at that.
Leave what … at what?
Well you said it would be ok if someone denounced the wrongdoing – and I was pointing out that even the pope has done that. So I’d imagine that the denunciation from the pope would satisfy you.
And nest… just like Bolt seems to require, you’ll be expecting every muslim to denounce every act of terrorism, I mean they’re the standards you set TB
ToM
I agree this current Pope has denounced the wrongdoing, however the actions of the church (not the Pope) since the denouncing are questionable, especially in relation to confession and reporting of pedophiles within the clergy.
Plus I think this pope is hamstrung by old die hard conservatives in the ranks who do not want the church to say sorry and compensate the victims, or report clergy to police who are still alive, despite them knowing what the clergy have done.
A thorough cleansing and true humility is required if the catholic church is to survive this scandal.
And your religion is ToM?
nil, zero, zilch religion TB
no beliefs at all?
As I’ve pointed out, I try to avoid ridiculing people for their sincerely held spiritual beliefs, and me saying that is what started this.
While he is desperately straw clutching in defense of catlick flavored skyfairy. He will be the first to squirt if scary, scary moooslims find a benefit to enforce upon others; Uncovered-Meat springs to mind. Freedom `From` Skyfairy is always the better choice.
Back on topic I was looking at the tax/GDP graph again. Tax/GDP went from 25% in Howards last years to 23% in Rudds first year and fell further to 22% of GDP the following year. Is this because Rudd/Swan cuts taxes or because revenue fell because of the GFC?
Stephen Koukoulas put that graph together. The man is a false prophet
If the catholic church had acted honestly and sincerely once the child abuse became known, then I would defend them even though I no longer believe.
We did have an issue at my boarding school (not involving me) while I was there in year 10. I had forgotten all about it until now. I wonder how they would treat it today? Hopefully completely differently than they did then. It was hushed up and not talked about. The only reason I know about it is the boys involved were mates in my year and in those days you all lived and slept in big dormitories with 100 in our dormitory alone. So things get told, even if they are supposed to be kept secret on instruction from the school.
I try to avoid ridiculing people for their sincerely held spiritual beliefs
Its not their spiritual beliefs that are the problem … its their hypocrisy and cruelty to other human beings I call out … I don’t need to ridicule them – they do that almost every day (and for centuries past) … the history and actions and defenses are there to see … in our lifetimes …
You may try to “avoid” it, I can’t – won’t … because …
Avoiding it, is to allow it to exist … I’ve seen far more harm done to world by religions on four continents than anything else (including Uber Kapitalism) … the cathedrals, temples, mosques taking years to build, costing treasure and lives and absolutely useless except as monuments … while children starved and worked in the fields and mines, factories and ships … all that is actually anathema to the gods that these people purportedly serve … twisted by “ministers” of all religions for their own profit, power and ego …
… “I try to avoid ridiculing” is a simplistic approach that actually condones the issues of past, present and, it seems, the future!
“Ratio/percentage? You people are pedantic.”
Details matter. They reinforce facts and generally destroy ‘the vibe’.
The man is a false prophet
Now that’s the topic … but SK has never claimed to be a prophet.
Yer a dick, Dick …
“Sometimes, ToM, you make the most naive comments … rich religious people send their kids to rich religious schools … that WE now support too.”
To be fair, I got sent to a ‘cheap’ Catholic boarding school, purely for a better ‘education’ than was available at the local area school. I believe I got a ‘better’ education there.
Nor were my parents rich. At that point, Dad was a soldier settler grazier who broke even most years, and Mum went back to nursing several shifts a week to pay for our education. Of course, she went back to Uni & became a GP, but that was after both my brother and I had left school & entered the workforce.
Not all Private school attendants are rich & or religious.
“In my view, because they are far better able to provide better teaching environments, because of the ballsed up policies that take money from public and dole it out to private.
And then the public schools just get dumped with the leftovers, in all respects, and have to cope with it as best they can”
Or this, from YomMR.
To clarify, I am revolted by the ideas thrown up (literally) by the current government’s timidity in releasing this report.
Go on, cnuts! show your hands. See how many voters you snare with stupid pandering to fable adherents.
Oh FFS shane, had the catlick skyfairy club walked their OWN talk in any time in the past DECADES globally, the head priest or bishop would have dragged the pedo by the nads to the plod for charges or; the public square for a sound flogging. Not engage in building a pedo protection racket. (sorry to hear about your lads)
” I think this is probably an agenda item of Abbott, Andrew & Abetz types”
I agree.
However, I also agree with those commenting who suggest that if such blatant loopholes exist, they should be closed. As for Federal Law overriding State legislation…well, FMD!
“Having asked that, who are advocating this law, if not the religious organisations that control, operate and profit from these schools ?
Who initiated this review and who are the ones who proposed these laws, along with whatever else is in this report?
Do we have names and details of who submitted to the Ruddock review and what they proposed, or is that so top secret as well?”
Excellent, pertinent questions…particularly because this ‘review’ came hot on the heels of the conservatives getting their arse handed back to them by an overwhelming majority of the general population in the SSM plebiscite (or whatever they bend that into now).
The result of that vote was actually the best external evidence I’ve ever been able to show my daughter that ‘most people are humane, considerate, non-judgemental & reasonable’ I’ve ever had. Fuck the fable adhering wankers for trying to subvert things so insidiously, so soon.
Not only am I Atheist…I am becoming comfortably Anti-Theist…
“We did have an issue at my boarding school (not involving me) while I was there in year 10. I had forgotten all about it until now. I wonder how they would treat it today? Hopefully completely differently than they did then. It was hushed up and not talked about. The only reason I know about it is the boys involved were mates in my year and in those days you all lived and slept in big dormitories with 100 in our dormitory alone. So things get told, even if they are supposed to be kept secret on instruction from the school.”
Sounds very familiar to me, Shane.
It wasn’t until I’d finished school, that several stories came out…and later again that we all learned that a HeadMaster we had had been shifted from a prior MSC school, to us, after ‘allegations’…
The abuse of trust & power is bad enough. The covering up & shifting of the guilty by the INSTITUTION is unconscionable!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/11/the-right-to-expel-children-from-school-isnt-about-freedom-its-about-cruelty
Another good question…
As an example – years ago, I think it may have been on Tim Dunlop’s blog, I recall a regular contributor over a long time – thoughtful, left leaning with huge intellect, showed that he was offended by the off hand ridicule of his faith. He stopped contributing, and I was disappointed by that.
He was a paradox certainly, but faith seems deeper to some people than the simple argy-bargy of politics.
I couldn’t care less about someone’s ‘faith’, anymore than I do their bedroom proclivities.
But, I ask you, how many MP’s let their sexual proclivities influence our National polity?
Ergo…how many MP’s (quite often in clandestine ways, because they sense it won’t pass the smell test) let their religious proclivities influence the National polity?
Essentially, we are saying similar things, from different viewpoints, YomM; and I’m not having to defend myself.
I do however think that all ludicrous propositions, once espoused publically, should be up for public ridicule…and ALL religion fits into this bracket.
Fine. But anyone with “faith” will always lose a debate on logic. Because their faith has no relationship to logic.
There is no proof or rationale they can offer a debate, and when they are ridiculed for that it looks mean spirited , to me
Fine. But anyone with “faith” will always lose a debate on logic.
So, leave the kids alone … let adults make the choice – when they are adults!
Fine. ” But anyone with `faith` will always lose a debate on logic. ”
Haw Haw Haw. Ya don`t say numbnuts. Has it occurred to ya yet the skyfairy followers would stop losing said so-called debates if the were smart enough to not start them in the first place.
“Fine. But anyone with “faith” will always lose a debate on logic. Because their faith has no relationship to logic.
There is no proof or rationale they can offer a debate, and when they are ridiculed for that it looks mean spirited , to me”
Sorry, kinda, but that just looks like logic & reason ‘winning’ (Trump has forever debauched the term) to me.
It doesn’t necessarily need to be zero sum though, surely?
I know I can come across as snide, but ‘mean spirited’? haha
Thoughts about this?…off topic as fuck, but still waaaay cool.
I have lots of Queen on vinyl, amongst the vinyl brutality. wotcanisay…I grew up on it. Init…
“There is no proof or rationale they can offer a debate, and when they are ridiculed for that it looks mean spirited , to me”
Right. So what you’re saying is that people who believe in a talking snake (or a talking donkey for that matter), or that Jesus walked with the dinosaurs and the world was created 7 days – these people should be “respected” simply due to the fact that they hold these beliefs with fervent enthusiasm…?
Thoughts about this?…off topic as fuck, but still waaaay cool.
WAAAAAAAAAY cool
there’s also one out about Elton John too I saw.
And, also saw this the other day, which was waay cool too, might have to try listening to some of their other stuff
simply due to the fact that they hold these beliefs with fervent enthusiasm
Ridicule is pretty much all we have, because ignoring them is not an option
They are currently running the cuntry
btw reb, not sure if you did anything, or it worked out at my end, but no issues today with the certificates or whatever.
Oh, this is poking the hornets nest. Turn their policy back on them 180
And, considering the recent rc, why not?
Mr Shorten said he would consider giving financial regulators the power to force bank-owned super funds to appoint independent trustees to ensure best practices.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2018/10/12/bill-shorten-superannuation/
… these people should be “respected” simply due to the fact that they hold these beliefs with fervent enthusiasm…? And impinge their “beliefs” on everyday life and people who don’t believe … that’s the issue I have … I was baptized at seven, chastised at 10 (for questioning) and mystified all my life that seemingly intelligent people couldn’t/wouldn’t accept that I did not “believe” in a “higher being” …
Story: Two of my friends are Freemasons (in fact I entertain at the Ladies Christmas Night for them) … when my friend suggested I become a brother I told him I was agnostic and did not believe in a higher being … his answer was brilliant … “you do not believe in yourself?” – my friend is a “German born Aussie” … and very, very smart … I pissed myself laughing .. and said, “No thanks, cobber”
I think it is entirely reasonable to ridicule politians who use religion for political purposes.
But if individuals have a sincere belief, it seems mean spirited to me
Another example- I know someone who had mental health problems for over a decade. Lots of substance abuse and lots of psych treatment. They kept lapsing into their depression and alcoholism
They found comfort in mainstream religion, turn up at a church every Sunday and have been relatively stable for years now.
They aren’t zealots, but the notion that there is something beyond us seems to anchor them.
Some here might just say that this is the final piece of evidence that they’re delusional and crazy but I don’t think they deserve ridicule.
Its NOT ridicule its criticising control and power over other people’s lives – who.don’t.want.it …
As for the “someone you knew” – great – if only the religions stuck to that … but they “force” many people to join their happy clappy band or at least their missionary driven (or peer pressured BS) does …
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Has anyone else noticed The Firm’s not so subtle advertising campaign (especially on Channel 7) recently … “Queen of the World and one of the princes for GG … I smell an abdication coming up? King Charles III anyone?
but I don’t think they deserve ridicule.
I’ve been in amongst these god loving hypocrits
Most are in it for them and their own
I have nothing but ridicule
Whatever, I’ve explained my views
(in fact I entertain at the Ladies Christmas Night for them)
The mind boggles.. 😯
“Ridicule is pretty much all we have, because ignoring them is not an option”
Comment of the week.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/teacher-who-lost-school-job-after-revealing-he-was-in-same-sex-relationship-warns-of-impact-of-religious-review/ar-BBOfMbn?ocid=spartanntp
I guess you’ll be able to tell the gay students and teachers by the pink triangles they’ll be forced to wear.
Wasn’t it purple?
LOL
The mind boggles.. 😯
Whoo … you are awful … but I like you!
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/12/scott-morrison-backtracks-law-expel-gay-students
Prime Preacher SloMo just changed his mind, apparently … mmmm …
How can the Ruddock Report be misrepresented? SloMo just had an each way bet I guess …
What can I say … !
Chuckle … !
Not usually a fan of the insipid Chris Uhlmann but on the “own goal” point he is correct…
https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js
https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js
Meanwhile, the firefighters union has basically been kicked out of Trades Hall for bullying.
That’s probably
yet another example of the outrageous behaviour of that uniona media beat-upWhat if all thieves simply paid back what they had stolen?* How wonderful that would be … for them …
Would they steal again? Will Roberts steal again?
So WTF was Roberts doing for $2000 a month FFS?
What was he downloading … OR uploading – and to whom?
Simply letting Roberts pay back – Assistant Treasurer AND an IT “specialist” – does not even get to the “pub test” …
ICAC anyone????
I have NBN HFC/hybrid running at (let me check) – yep a consistent 93-94mbps … I also have unlimited download … and pay … $105 a month … (compared to $2000? Something smells) More Liberal Lies, Dopey Dutton – “I din’t know about the raid officer …” Michaelia “The Mouth” Cash – “I din’t know about the raid officer” …
s’OK they’ll all be at confession on Sunday … l-o-o-o-ng noses and all.
*(Even ToM will tell you that stealing in a business usually brings instant dismissal … I’ve only had to do it once … with more evidence than I needed …)
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/12/stuart-robert-repays-nearly-38000-for-home-internet-bills
brings instant dismissal … I’ve only had to do it once … with more evidence than I needed …)
No not steal … terminate employment! Have to be so fkn careful around
ToM and toylethere …Vote fkn Labor …
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/12/labor-offers-support-if-morrison-acts-to-stop-schools-from-expelling-gay-students
ToM, for the record I do not condone this either … just another extreme by governments …
https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/china-has-just-made-it-legal-to-isolate-its-uighur-muslim-minority-from-society-for-reeducation/news-story/7f658a14a870a03512a938e060268b45
TB
Looks like you like the sound of your own voice
After all the effort yomm has put in trying to claim victimhood on behalf of skyfairy club; Did everybody see boltsville skyfairy loonies making imbeciles of themselves outside a womens hospital/ medical center on the news last night??
I see that the previous ALP government introduced the federal laws that provided the right for schools to discriminate against gay students, that’s yet another example of the expediency of the ALP
Times and circumstances change (as do Prime Preachers) ToM … just ask SloMo
You probably remember that some of us were not happy about quite a few of Labor’s policy’s under Gillard particularly … I also recall being very vocal about Labor reducing single Mum’s income …
That’s the difference between Labor supporters and Liberal supporters were not all blind followers of fashion …
I’m no so sure about that TB. I think the blame (here) for this was allocated to the the schools… and Morrison
Even I said it was Abbott, Andrews, Abetz types. But it was Gillard and Shorten types
(Odd. One might otherwise have expected, with/out the new and exciting ‘it’s all Labor’s fault’ agenda-setting, that the Commonwealth Finance Minister, and/or the backpedalling Prime M(eat)puppet wannabe, to be slightly more interested in the (un)exceptional Commonwealth-finance(d) provisions of the amending enactment on which Parliament voted; particularly, given the Human Headline’s instant proposal to introduce a relevant Senate motion come Monday.)
ToM … do you actually comprehend any of my comments?
You probably remember that some of us were not happy about quite a few of Labor’s policy’s under Gillard particularly … I also recall being very vocal about Labor reducing single Mum’s income …
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tim Dunlop is still in action … interesting piece on democracy …
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/14/voting-undermines-the-will-of-the-people-its-time-to-replace-it-with-sortition
OR … something based upon the Chinese hierarchical system … ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China
Now, ToM, its time to confront the real elephant in the forum …
Climate Change …
As a surfer (a naturist) what are your thoughts … I’m hoping for personal individual dialogue here … not cheat sheets from LNP HQ … 🙂
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/08/global-warming-must-not-exceed-15c-warns-landmark-un-report
Yes teebz its a nice book advert for dunlop that has some home truths in it. The sortition idea is interesting, tho probably more interesting to those on team repug 1999 which is used as the example, but as it turned out, not so important or desired by the majority. Another parliament to “represent the people”? isn`t that what both the ‘house’ and senate are meant to do? l noticed there was no solution offered to prevent corporates “buying” this new peoples parliament just as they have already bought the duopoly.
How will ol`trainy trainy today resolve; (1)his bitter anti-royal, pro-repug stance of many, many years, with; (2)harry rolling into jonestown to open the 4th invictus games which harry created and wrangled war-depts on behalf of folks with military grade injuries.
Easily … I recognise that the Invictus Games are nothing to do with a manipulated political structure and the simpleton hypocrisy of a multinational business (The Royal Family), masquerading as the Head of State of the country I love and adopted 60 years ago…
I can even tie my shoe laces while planning my day …
(Military grade injuries WTF … try seriously wounded amputees …)
I see that dumping Turnbull has consolidated the led of the ALP. Great work by all the Lib nutcases and their barrackers.
* First they dump the NEG, which had a chance of removing emissions from the debacle of political division.
* Then they dump Turnbull who had them within reach of retaining government
* Now they have to explain a huge swing against them in Wentworth and do without the $$$$$ Turnbull kicked in to bail out the Libs
A pack of f***wits
————————-
TB, as a surfer, my favourite break is best at low tide. So it the water level increases, there will be higher tides, therefore I am extremely concerned!
But it was Gillard and Shorten types
Yep. Unfortunately, even the ALp is still alrgely controlled by fundy types.
Even Gillard, a devout Atheist, bowed before them.
A lot of Coalition voters are happy turnbull has gone. Morrison now appears on programs Turnbull would never appear on. Turnbull was happier to appear on the ABC than conservative talkback radio. I think he was in the wrong party
… therefore I am extremely concerned!
This should be just your style then …
https://www.tncjazz.com/listen/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
even the ALp is still largely(sic) controlled by fundy types
Agree and that’s disturbing in itself (religious/political conspiracy?*) … still it defeats the right wig myth that all left wing types are communists … 😉
Imagine a parliament with two major parties – Christian Party and Islam Party and then a smaller Secular Party … oh! Wait! … or one big christian party covertly split into LNP and ALP ….!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Morrison now appears on programs Turnbull would never appear on.
Yep it always helps to preach to the converted … maybe not as a pollie tho’ … and I don’t think missionary style works with the non-converted!
I am sure Morrison will appear on the ABC. But Turnbull avoided 2GB, Andrew Bolt ie where a large chunk of the Conservative base listen
The Limitednews magical skyfairy dust isn`t as potent as you imagine yomm. The teabag chick is a smart cookie, she`s a quack you know, sure, she won`t have the 17% lead talkbull had, but she is a long way from smoked. Wentworth is a small-L area which usually means ‘the-left’ negatives annoy them more than ‘the-right’ negatives. EG repug and blib
“A lot of Coalition voters are happy turnbull has gone. Morrison now appears on programs Turnbull would never appear on. Turnbull was happier to appear on the ABC than conservative talkback radio. I think he was in the wrong party”
Verbatim, Bolt for breakfast…
Hi nice reading your bllog