Wentworth Votes!

how we miss him

lolz

https://www.digitaleagles.com.au/social-media/secure-digital-assets-especially-youre-prime-minister/

My favourite Howard expression is top left

TB

Never was a “normal Liberal” voter. A swinging voter and I plan to stay that way. Keep my own independence instead of a blind loyalty to one ideology or another. What I have done, as I have grown older, is realise that a seat that is safe for either side, is completely ignored and taken for granted, until it becomes marginal. A marginal seat is a far better result for its constituents instead of this safe seat, occupied by career driven and greedy local members.

Seems my comments over the years, regarding the Banks and their greed driven habits since privatisation of the CBA and the introduction of American sales techniques by David Murray which drove the culture change, was spot on. Once again, a massive failure of privatisation for all banking customers and the whole of Australia. The CEOs of the time should be hauled before the courts or at the very least the RC to explain their actions at the time.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/19/nab-chief-tells-inquiry-banks-started-drifting-from-customers-20-years-ago

“how we miss him”

I do. Govt debt went from 7% to 18% of GDP under Hawke/Keating. Howard took that down to zero by 2007. In fact we had $40B in the bank. Net debt is now at $350B. That is an increase of almost $400B in debt since 2007.

And what have we built with that $400B?

Does Neil comment at the Guardian? They’re very democratic !

Your only purpose in life appears to be to tells lies and lock up boat people

I think you mean – Your only purposesin life are…

Haw haw haw. The phelps chick smoked the teabags! lt seems all the pentacostle prayers to the skyfairy didn’t work!

Shane

Table 4 gives the net debt numbers

Click to access bp1_bs11.pdf

1996- $96B
2007- minus $40B ie less than zero
2013- $209B
2018- $350B

You cannot put a % increase on the net debt increase under Rudd/Gillard because it went from negative to positive from minus $40B to plus $209B

Shane, l understand what you/author are saying from a this-team, that-team perspective. This bit gets my attention tho. “ Gross debt is the total amount of money a government owes to other parties. Net debt is gross debt, adjusted for some of the assets a government owns and earns interest on. Not all government assets are included in the calculation of net debt. ” To me it really looks much more like meaningless econoBabble that teabags and LimitedNews can beat the rest about the head with, even fraudulently. So when treasury sheds our assets; say a bank that use to return interest/profit to treasury is sold; while treasury funds toothless asic/apra panda/s the bank sneers at; and treasury also funds royal investigations into crimes the now privatized bank commits; while treasury also funds the war-dept to murder iraq citizens for no reason. Or we could look at treasury being shed of the teleco at the dawn of digital age; once privatized, refusing to modernize which forces treasury to pay/build a 2nd telco; then pay for the sabotage of 2nd telco and also the hijacking of boats at sea and building offshore gulags; and ultimately the repairing of 2nd telco. In short, the metric is kind`a bullshit and not as useful to the public as legacy outlets are sucked in to believe. How much debt is due to iraq war?? What did treasury get for bank (minus royal-comm cost)?? What did treasury get for telecom (minus fiberCo cost)?? What annual income does treasury now forego from bank sale?? telco sale??

Any caged parrot can be trained to recite a few lines over and over and over, tho it can never explain how or why it crapped in its bowl of seed.

Did something happen on the weekend?

All I care about is when we get to vote this mob out

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-22/full-employment-myth-and-why-our-youth-are-missing-out/10402308

lol, the “Great Sookening”

“There can be only none!”

Replace a popular leader with an unpopular one and electoral defeat follows.

I think that my have happened on another occasion.

Hell hath no fury … bullshit

I voted for Rudd – because (in my opinion) a Rudd victory would have resulted in much needed reform of the ALP structure, and I couldn’t stand Abbott.

Years ago I got to know one of his advisers, and even over drinks there was no suggestion that he was anything other than a hard worker. I think the anti Rudd sentiment among ALP types is similar to the criticism that Turnbull is now getting from the right wing of the Liberals

That is hard line types loathe successful moderates

But are these necessarily bad qualities when it comes to running the country?

I guess it depends on if that country is a democracy or dictatorship

There is no ‘right’ way.

Maybe, but to have a union official – who is not even part of the parliamentary caucus – providing the public commentary of knifing Rudd and reassuring Gillard that the knifing was necessary, is about the worst possible example.

It’s the nature of the ALP caucus to just fall into line with the demands of the factional warlords – and that is objectionable, bordering on utterly unethical

Howes was the one big noting himself on the ABC – after assuring Gillard that she had to knife Rudd.

Remember (the undenied) report that Rudd asked Gillard for a little more time and she (apparently) accepted this. Howes told her this was unacceptable – so she returned to Rudd and advised that he was a goner.

At least Arbib, Shorten, Swan etc were members of the caucus – who were entitled to choose their leader

Howes was the media performer, looking to promote his powerful image – that went well.

As I said – only the most ardent of barrackers would seek to excuse the manipulation of the caucus by people outside the parliament

Imagine the president of the business council (for example) going on the ABC and advising that they’d decided to replace the PM.

I think you’d regard that as poor form.

The power of the ALP has very little to do with the people we vote into parliament – but you seem fine with that.

Yeah… so the likes of Howes (or his successors) are great for the ALP

That’s right, Howes crapped in his own nest – he showed exceptionally poor judgement – but the ALP saw him as a star.

To have him telling the ALP deputy leader that she could not back off on the challenge was an outrage.

All political parties are flawed, but the ALP structure isn’t transparent or ethical,

Even though there are a few well intentioned people in the party, their efforts are swamped by the hacks and warlords

And there aren’t even many well intentioned people in the ALP these days – remember John Button, Barry Jones, Gareth Evans, Peter Walsh, John Dawkins, Neale Blewett and even that well known christian, Bill Hayden.

The ALP used to be full of independent thinkers – who would have told the factional warlords to jam it. Not now, I think Bowen and Albanese – possibly.

So just continuing the history.

During the last year of the Keating government – that’s when the external factionalism got out of control.

Keating was a natural reformer – he always had a plan. He had a reform plan for the waterfront (for example) but the unions stymied that – and paved the way for the Reith/Corrigan action that followed.

Then Simon Crean wanted to balance the control of the unions with membership voting – and the unions undermined him, and tried to kick him out of his seat!

Unions should stick to looking after their members without having to consider the political implications for the ALP.

The waterfront was rortsville and Keating understood this, but regardless of that, you’d oppose Keating’s plan?

The waterfront was in need of reform, and Keating had a reform plan. Unions screwed him, and ever since they’ve screwed the ALP

You do realise that your statement above is not only partisan but really quite silly … 

Allow me to return that compliment TB… I think you’re incredibly naive, biased and silly

The waterfront was in need of reform, and Keating had a reform plan.

So, do you have a link to this plan?

Keating stopped being PM over 20 years ago, did they have links then?

Try it yomm

https://www.google.com/search?ei=XE_OW9TqKsX1vgSzk5qYCg&q=paul+keating+proposed+waterfront+reforms&oq=paul+keating+proposed+waterfront+reforms

but I’ve matured.

I think you meant but ……… but……. but I’ve matured. 😉

ToM R

While I do not read Neils comments I hope he reads your comment further up in relation to the NBN and now the billions they will waste fixing it back to original design. The LNP have now wasted untold billions on a system that was faulty from the beginning of their intervention in the NBN. Once again a colossal fuck up.

On a bright note, it looks like the size of the ALP win will mean that they won’t have to brown nose to the militant unions to grift every possible vote out of that cohort.

They can form government owing unions only their normal level of debt, subservience and gratitude

There you go again TB, you just can’t resist the – but, but, but… look at them

Criticism of the ALP seems intolerable to you

Shane

Nobody is arguing that Labors fibre network is not the best. It is too expensive however. Nobody really knows how much it would cost or how long it would take to build. ALP supporters do not appear to care about poor people

https://www.afr.com/technology/web/nbn/costs-balloon-in-allfibre-national-broadband-network-rollout-20171020-gz56pk

“The potential cost of Labor’s original ambitious all-fibre national broadband network model has been revealed with documents which show that it cost up to $91,196 to connect a single premises.
Ravenswood in east Launceston, Tasmania, is at the centre of why the Turnbull government scrapped Labor’s all-fibre NBN rollout in favour of its multi-technology mix, following a strategic review of the project when it was elected in 2013.
Tucked away in a remote area, building fibre all the way into one property cost $91,196, while another property, a bowling club in Invermay, Tasmania, cost $86,533 to activate a fibre-to-the-premises service, due to substantial remediation work.”

FTTP costs approx. $4,000 to install and FTTN costs approx. $2,000.

Fact is under Labors plan before Turnbull changed it one premise cost $91,000 to connect to fibre.

Like most ALP supporters you are deceitful and do not care about the poor. Of course FTTP is the best. But how much would it cost? Is it worth the extra money?..

BTW TomR’s tweet which Shane directed me to is a fraud I think. There was a response from NBNCo to that tweet saying there was something wrong. I don’t think NBNCo would give that advice

Exactly, that is why Turnbull changed some of those places out in the never never to FTTN

BTW NBNCo responded to TomR’s tweet which Shane directed me to

TB

We know ToM hates unions and cannot see past his own bias. There were a couple of militant unions but since Howard, the teeth of ALL unions have been pulled out. Young people do not join a union because they are unaware of what has been lost over the years before they were even born. A new generation growing up with less employee benefits, casual working, no payrises (or only the minimum possible), no super being paid and companies putting the onus on taxpayers as they declare bankruptcy only to reopen, 457 visas, full time positions being dumped and staff forced to tender for their previous job holding an ABN as a contractor. The list is endless while the top management enjoy more and more and more. I could quote over 30 benefits taken from CBA staff since I originally joined, yet the top salary is now obscene compared to those days.

In the meantime the benefits to big business has skyrocketed and their ability to do what they like enshrined in ideology.

The inequality has been growing and will continue to grow. I just consider myself lucky I will not be here in 30 years time. I believe our generation will end up being detested in history for greed and not taking action despite facts and evidence showing reality in so many areas.

1 tree took a week to fell 100 years ago, now 1 acre can be totally cleared between 2 bulldozers and a massive chain in 1 minute. Witnessed it in Nyngan, where they now have salt rising from the table making land desolate.

Don’t know if you remember the massive fire in the Warrumbungle National Park at Coonabarabran ( my home town) 6 years ago where over 53,000 hectares was burnt
out with the town saved by a very lucky wind change. The town used to be considered lucky in the area receiving rainfall (even during drought)when the rest of the area did not. Since the fire the rainfall no longer comes and the town has had much less than the surrounding areas. Even those who were climate change sceptics are starting to comment about it and realising that the forest was the reason we had better rainfall for the town. It created an atmosphere of moisture and drew down the rainfall fronm the clouds. So their own misfortune is making them research and actually realise that the science is correct. Still have some diehards who will never accept that out continual clearing and felling of forest has no impact.

TomR

Pointless?

Well here is a point. I followed your twitter link and to my surprise someone from NBNCo replied to NerdyNigel. Sounds like it is a spam twitter post

“Australia has in fact … thanks to the Liberal Party … become a nation of children traffickers. “”

Oh FFS………….what hypocrisy. It was your lot that locked them up in the first place.

The LNP has been releasing them

FMD

….and before anyone else comments –

I think I mean – “your characterisation” and – “My opinions…”

Shane

I remember the hate from you lot in 2007 to Howard. And that is with a booming economy and almost full employment.

When I think of ALP supporters I see nothing but hate and greed

Shane there were plenty of ALP luminaries that thought it was time for the unions and the ALP to have “an amicable divorce”

The view of informed people (like John Button) was that unions were becoming increasingly conflicted by the political affiliation, and this was part of the reason for such strong politicisation of the industrial relations system.

There was plenty of discussion about the subject over decade ago.There is little ALP debate about it these days (I think) because it is such a strong career option for union officials.

Shane, the fact that unions needed a political party in the wake of the economic conditions about 130 years ago is hardly a reason to continue the relationship.

The groups that you refer to are donors to the Liberals and I’d be entirely satisfied if unions were the major donors to the ALP, just as they are to most major centre-left parties around the world.

Unions dis some research when this was a significant discussion point, it showed that over 50% of union members voted for political parties other than the ALP. Only about 40% voted for the ALP.

There was a view among some ALP people and union officials that this made many workers (who were non ALP voters) more resistant to joining unions, as they didn’t wish to contribute to a political party they didn’t support.

The average price of a house in the USA is $280,000 compared to around $800,000 in Aust.

So it isn’t all bad news

————-

Shane – the point I was making had nothing to do with the cost of union membership – if you think it’s good value, that’s good.

check this out…

FMD, Shane & TB, do you think I didn’t convert both to Australian currency?

You both make so many assumptions that are wrong – this is such an easy example to demonstrate how you both make so many incorrect assumptions.

“Yes it keeps rents lower”

yea, right. History doesn’t agree

https://theconversation.com/three-charts-on-poorer-australians-bearing-the-brunt-of-rising-housing-costs-87003

It also means someone with assets can out bid a low income earner from buying a home, and then charging them rent that could have gone towards a mortgage

A report that’s a year old

How long has negative gearing been in again?

And what has this Government done to change anything in the last year?

Simple fact is that anywhere else in the World rents are much higher because there is no NG to compensate asset owners.
……….
Perhaps you should read about it LOL

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-expensive-cities-around-the-world-to-rent-a-2-bedroom-apartment-2017-5/?r=AU&IR=T/#2-san-francisco-united-states-3664-23

This looks like it has been airbrushed

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/67be59b9c4bfafa64fb32023c592aa5a

ToM

Are you looking through a foggy lens ?

Shane you posted the conversion – $280,000 times 1.42 exchange rate = $396,000

The average price is about US$200,000 , and I had already made the calculation to A$280,000

You show me yours and I’ll show you mine LOL

https://www.weetas.com/article/rent-income-ratio-17-major-cities/

A new IFS report found the rent-to-income ratio in Britain excluding London has fallen by 3% — from 31% to 28% — in the last twenty years, but climbed by 3% — from 37% to 40% — in London over the same period.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/generation-rent-londoners-spend-40-of-income-on-rent-says-ifs-2017-10?r=UK&IR=T

No worries Shane

The Red Shirt scandal involved the ALP using public funds (intended for electoral work) for political campaigning.

22 MPs , 6 ministers.

Cooperation with police promised, but reneged

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/wearing-red-shirts-was-fundamental-sin-labor-minister-says-20180725-p4ztmq.html

I have always been (along with KL, as I recall) an advocate of onshore detention for a number of reasons …I suggest you google search Blogocracy, Blogocrats and The Gutter Trash …

TB

You did not answer my question. What are you trying to say?

This was a problem John Howard had solved. Through trial and error and some harsh policies he worked out how to stop the boats. SEnding people off-shore showed the people smugglers there was no point in putting people on boats. Once the boats stopped we then went back to taking our refugees from UNHCR camps.

Then Rudd was elected by you and YOU restarted the problem. There should be double and triple the responsibility and blame for people who restarted a problem that other people had solved

you can’t argue, nor change the minds of, via reason, blockheaded cunts…

How long did it take for you to work that out? I have always said people believe what they want to believe and facts are irrelevant

So, the libs run down the public service until it can’t function, then outsource it, cos … cheaper?

I call bullshit

OooI think making public services contestable is important for efficiency. Otherwise the public service is an unresponsive monopoly.

And even I think this is stupid –

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/coalition-vows-to-reinstate-religious-instruction-in-state-schools-20181029-p50cpr.html

do you really believe that power prices have not risen because of privatisation

I don’t. Solar rebates, subsidies for renewables etc have distorted the market. The solar rebate is added to our electricity bill. SA got rid of coal and replaced it with renewables and has the highest electricity prices in Australia

I am also old enough to remember how slow Telecom was to respond. And then Optus enters the market and Telecoms customer service improves.

And the current NBN is a govt monopoly. Private enterprise would build it quicker and cheaper

Reducing the monopoly of the pubic servants in providing the service isn’t the same model as an asset sale.

I think you meant “providing the PUBLIC service”

On this occasion, I have to concede that you’re right Tom R!
————————
TB, rather than whinging about businesses that make a profit, and robber barons etc, what is your suggestion for ensuring the public sector is responsive and efficient. Obviously you don’t see a role for contestability

A Rav 4 and a 9 year old jag are luxury cars?? The jag is about the same price as a Ford.

It clearly wasn’t the cars that caused the problem.

What point? That it appears to be a grubby organisation?

Heavens! I’ve never heard of public servants misappropriating funds or engaging in dubious behaviour !!

***sarcasm alert***

That’s right TB, organisations stagnate unless they have a reason to change. Monopolies in particular have few reasons to change because there is no competitive pressure that causes innovation.

If you just suggest that the service is great because… they’re public servants, really that doesn’t make much sense.

Organisations change through necessity, and if the status quo is comfortable, change is slow

5% is high. There are about 2,000,000 public servants.

You think having 100,000 corrupt ones is low?

So… what’s the reason for the public servants to move from the comfortable status quo if there is no downside to remaining with the status quo?

Change occurs because the change is either better or less risky than the status quo. If there is no reason to change – the status quo continues.

What is the strategy for change for public servants? Ask them to do more work? Tell them they’re going really well, and we will spend even more taxpayer funds on them?

And if a departmental function needs funding – fund it … you mentioned 2,000,000 PS above … many with families, a precious career and dedicated to serving the public … they also vote … and pay taxes

Only a Labor party voter would say that. The money for a PS salary comes from the taxpayer or by borrowing from overseas. People working for the govt really do not pay taxes. Money for govt wages all comes from private enterprise

Nobody in govt should earn more than the PM. And they definitely should not be getting 15.4% Super. It should be 9% like anybody else.

Those 2,000,000 PS’s would all vote Labor because they want high paying jobs with job security. people vote Labor because they only care about themselves

Tom R PERMALINK
October 31, 2018 1:42 pm

Oddly enough no-one has suggested here that the AFP be privatised
Give ’em time, give ’em time

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm……🤗

What is the strategy for change for public servants?

Apart from what TB already highlighted, that would depend on the department, wouldn’t it? I know under Labor the BOM was always improving and moving into the latest technologies. And the Tax department were having huge successes chasing high level company tax avoidence.

That was of course before hockey and abbott put them both to rest.

Technology itself is often the biggest driver of change.

But to simply claim that privatising something drives “positive” change (which you seem to implying) is just managerese bullshit that is not supported by the real world experience.

All forms of privatisation, from electricity, to prisons, to centerlink, has seen either a rapid decline in services, a big increase in cost, or both

You’re just defaulting to slogans TB.

Says “Privatisation brings Positive Change” yomm lol

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm……

Wally, our local representative for Serco 😉

But to simply claim that privatising something drives “positive” change

Privatisation and contestability aren’t the same thing – you and TB get the 2 confused.

Contestability is an important option to acceptance of a public monopoly.

Privatisation is the asset sale – and there are mixed examples of that – I don’t see anyone calling for the nationalisation of Qantas – for example.

if it ain’t broke don’t fix it …

This mobs motto seems to be, if it ain’t broke, break it!

Complacent leadership outsources their complacency

It’s what you get when you outsource reb 😉

It was interesting to see the clip of Steven Fry (on the ABC) saying (along the lines of…) – “Brexit, Trump, anti immigration isn’t a problem of the right, it’s the failure of the left”

Really TB, training and development is the starting point, but some people and organisations aren’t sufficiently interested in that process.

When change doesn’t happen or is actively resisted, what do you do?

And we could all exchange impressive CVs and experience, no doubt

But according to TB, all you need for cultural change is training and a change agent.

The abc is beyond compromised, they are a puppet for the libs

An ABC journalist has been suspended and is the subject of a two-month investigation following a direct complaint by Malcolm Turnbull’s son to former chairman Justin Milne.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/abc-reporter-suspended-for-two-months-after-complaint-by-alex-turnbull-to-chairman-20181101-p50de4.html

Change can be good
Change can be bad
Current Practices can be good
Current Practices can be bad

Good idea for whom though?

On topic, l notice the leftists are getting overstimulated by believing there will be a wentworth ‘flow-on’ of anger across other electorate/s for knifing talkbull which l doubt. The leftists are mistakenly assigning the same value to the talkbull knifing as the kevin07 knifing. Voters all across the nation held their nose and voted for the kevin07 surrogate because they wanted kevin07 and gave him the landslide win. Barely dragging the teabags over the line, talkbull just made it and voter anger is mostly confined to the top-hat territory of wentworth. (talking head leftists on telly)

____

So-called ‘change’ and its so-called ‘benefits’ usually come encased in a solid shell of econoBabble and manageWaffle and usually only impress boot-licks too dull to understand what is being covered up and too lucky to experience the effects.

OffGrid “ Solar and battery-powered classrooms ” While this is good news teebz, l’m a tad surprised LimitedNews would report this and proove me correct (again) and not our inHouse teabags. This “ three classrooms was partly funded with a $370,000 grant ” seems to include about $250k of troughsnouting and waste. 35-to 40k is the cost for battery solar house system. A classroom should be heaps cheaper than 40k as it won’t need the power of a house, even if allowing for aircon, heater and hotwater. Just don`t tell the inHouse teabags somebody was correct about offGrid battery solar baseload years ago, and it wasn`t them. (-:

Know Collusion Teabag

Here it is

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/karl-marx-was-right-2

Shane

I am now banned from posting at The Guardian. Did you have anything to do with that? The Guardian usually put me into moderation but then allows my posts. Now they have suspended my account. This is the only leftiist blog that allows me to post

Shane, truthdig, @thanks (-:

____

Guardian @what.a.shame

____

WarDept Memorial @Of course he doesn`t approve the lump of political purposed warFawning concrete; and of course he doesn`t approve of homeless handouts to those with military grade injuries either; as you imply.

____

LimitedNews ‘economic engine’; Waste of time. Lot of unquoted statements; out of context ‘jumping’ this to that; other teams fault; teabag promotion; usual shit! Not mucking around with the other links.

____

YankVote, my guess is theRonald will do a fair bit better than; what the usual echoChambers declare he will.

sweet juices ivi, we have reached peak idiocracy

Virgin is going to salute vetrans when they board a flight? What a load of crap.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/qantas-under-pressure-to-salute-veterans-on-flights-20181104-p50dxh.html

Mind you, they aren’t infallible

Qantas fears return to union anarchy

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/qantas-fears-return-to-union-anarchy/news-story/a48582a5259e59745e00493948537823

Anarchy, like grounding the entire fleet without warning?

And Virgin have always been more of a marketing company, rather than an operational airline. This ploy with veterans is another example

Is it ok for a minority union to take action that threatened the viability of the airline, when it was not supported by the majority of unions or the majority of the workforce?

Not even the majority of the Engineering and Maintenance workers/unions.

There are about 12 unions with coverage, Qantas had reached agreement with others

I’d be interested to know how you and/or Tom R would have resolved the dispute

The other option would have been to go to arbitration with them, you know, in the way it was resolved after the Government got involved

And the only way to arbitration was so demonstrate that the action was having a significant economic impact. So that’s what happened.

lol

Then why did joyce say he had to ground flights because the strikes were causing ….. significant economic impact?

Interestingly, industry bargaining would probably screw up Virgin rather than Qantas

Not even the majority of the Engineering and Maintenance workers/unions.

What is your source for that?

ALAEA has about 3000 members, I think about 1400 are employed by Qantas. There are near a dozen unions with coverage of Engineering and Maintenance in Qantas – ETU, AWU, AMWU, ASU, CFMEU, APESMA, TWU….

The ALAEA has about 20% of the number of employees in E&M

The other unions – and they aren’t exactly soft ones – managed to reach agreement with Qantas. The ALAEA has a different agenda to the other unions

lol, TWU yomm?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Qantas_industrial_disputes

Qantas can put up with most of the nonsense from the TWU – as the work doesn’t require CASA delegation – so it’s easy to get people to look after baggage handling.

The ALAEA was the union that used the CASA approval delegation as an industrial tactic.

No, most of the aircraft trades in Qantas would be member of unions other than the ALAEA.

I think AMWU & AWU would each have more members than the ALAEA

The TWU just jump on any issue they can to be disruptive, and usually the ASU is happy to do their work.

There are 26,000 employees of Qantas. – The ALAEA has maybe 1400

And the third one involved?

Also, did the other Unions support these actions?

Bland and non committal statements to the press was as far as the support went.

yea, right, none of them supported what joyce did

https://www.couriermail.com.au/business/flight-attendants-union-backs-qantas-ceo-alan-joyce-in-standoff-with-other-unions/news-story/8ba1933c51c6911be00ceb0726f1ac39

Yes, red tape as an industrial tactic.
————
I see Bunnings is advertising “festive trees” – does anyone anywhere call christmas trees, festive trees?

Well I’m off to the Cup… well I will be as soon as it stops raining enough to leave the house! I haven’t seen this much rain since I was last in Brisbane

You seem to imagine a lot of coldwar scary scary; yet forgot there is 11-nukie toyed nations now, you would need the realdeal to have a total mental breakdown for him to send russia onto britannia or non-ussr europe. Claiming china would want to start anything anywhere when they are the great freetrade victors is quite delusional really. They are smart enough to know they have already won and will continue to enjoy winning. Our stupid tuncs are the only ones that don`t realize this.

Sure you `remember` ALL the coldwar scary scary? Even the bit that nobody actually had the nads to use their nukies? Do you really think ANY of the greedy tuncs anywhere would risk their hoarded wealth going up in nukie smoke? (no, they don`t give a flying fcuk about the rest of us)

____

l also noticed shane seems to object to saudi ‘targeted’ dealings with fakenews purveyors at embassy levels. While of course tragic on the human and personal level. Remember the yanks also opened the floodgate on smoking reporters with ‘collateral murder’.

(Primate see. Primate do. Which is pretty much how most of the global political duopoly`s operate. InHouse we have a few primates addicted to their econoBabble, manageWaffle and corproGrunting. Did you notice?)

But that is all Re-Imagined coldwar scary scary. There is 11-nukie nations where nobody had the nads to push the button/s; turn the key/s or pull the chain. The primates obviously subliminally decided they didn`t wish to have a nukie powered mutually assured near extinction experience at the time. lnstead the primates decided they`d prefer the slower pollution powered, plasticized, skyfairy approved, global cooling near extinction experience at a later date. That`s where the Profit is.

Unions mainly operate in the public sector, the workforce expects the government to provide a strong regulatory framework.

You might remember thst Howard got the arse because he undremined this.

the workforce expects the government to provide a strong regulatory framework.

And that is letting them down, which is giving Unions a resurgent relevance.

Of course, it is always forgotten who provided this “strong regulatory framework” in the first place 😉

FMD… really, you’re such an expert TB. Tell me all about your experience in retail and hospitality, which seems to be where the underpayment occurs.

What’s the union density in those industries? And what (other than regulation) will ensure wages are correctly paid?

I have no idea what you’re on about TB.
Arbitration about people being underpaid?

TB, you posted an article re underpayment.

Enforcement of regulations is required. But you wandered into unions and employer associations being involved in arbitration. How does arbitration relate to the underpayment of wages?

If various employers avoid paying the arbitrated wage, when it is about $20 an hour, and weekend penalties why will they observe some other rate, UNLESS IT IS ENFORCED!

The issue is enforcement of the statutory minimum. Without enforcement, and conseqeences, regulations are optional.

You don’t seem to get that.

Well… perhaps you would have noticed that some people tend to be community minded and observe the law because it is the right thing to do.

Others don’t exhibit such goodwill.

Or maybe you haven’t noticed that.

Or maybe you haven’t noticed that.

If we didn’t have the latter, we wouldn’t need Unions (or regulations)

As I explained to my kids the other night, most laws (and regulations) are there to prevent humans from being ……….. humans 😦

Unfortunately, we all have to apply the law, regardless of our general good will.

And, luckily for the cafe workers, they have Unions that will help apply the law to those of less goodwill, where the Government allows it

Did you even read the link I provided as your silence on the article is deafening.

yomm linked to the actual policy a while ago, like it was written on tablets on a mountain. It was horrendous. I’m still getting over the fact that one of the restrictions on striking is if it causes financial pain to the employer

THAT’S THE FUCKING POINT OF A STRIKE!!!

but it won’t make much difference to the way the hospilality industry operates.

Yes it would

https://theconversation.com/why-union-members-earn-higher-wages-than-their-non-union-colleagues-93122

https://www.fastcompany.com/90227665/the-economy-is-booming-your-salary-is-not-blame-the-decline-of-unions

Of course you don’t do links

Means you can make outlandish claims, and ignore reality.

So in your case you never read a link?

Exhibit A) https://theguttertrash.com/2018/10/15/coalition-back-in-the-race-with-morrison-at-the-helm/#comment-149022

Yeah … just as a matter of interest, I’m sitting in a cafe on the coast at the moment. I can just imagine the people here shitting themselves at the likelihood of a union turn up.

No.

And Shane, while there may be instances of underpayment in a range of industries, hosputality and retail is where the evidence shows that it is regarded as a business model. Properly enforced regulation is required, and expected by the public.

It’s wishful thinking to imagine that unions are going to regroup and deal with the issue. The level of union membership in the private sector is now about 10%.

I can just imagine the people here shitting themselves at the likelihood of a union turn up.

Yea, cos if paying a fair pice for a fair cuppa is too much, faark off

I was quite happy to pay a Sunday loading for meals etc (actually, no I wasn’t, cos this should all be factored in) until we found out the workers weren’t getting the bloody loading

You are both inventing opinions for me!! Thanks but I really don’t need your help with that.

I’m not even sure what your point is tbh.

hmmm

“Or maybe you haven’t noticed that.”

I’m not sure that I complain bitterly or about all unions Shane. Generally I point out the behavior of unions in construction and mining, and the effect of political affiliation.

But I will point out that I seem to be on the receving end of more insulting comments than I post about people. I think people tend to post insults when they run out of intelligence

But “ I will point out that I seem to be on the receving end of more insulting comments than I post ”

Utter Crap! Whether here, the politicalSword, or the coffeeBlogs, you`ve merely been clubbed with your own stupidity and denial.

Who knows what motivates anyone to comment in the media… or blogs for that matter!!

Unions constantly speak to the media about disputes, and absolutely spit the dummy if equally strident language is used in return.

I think agreements get made when the secret ballot for protected industrial action passes. Employers generally realise it’s serious by then and the issues in dispute become pretty focussed.

What a surprise! lt was an industrial relations solution!

(Living is easy with eyes closed,

misunderstanding all you see.)

____

Yes. Very xtian of the pentacostal meddler, less food for the poor and their kiddies.

Wot?

I’m pretty sure that was management speak for
“I’m sorry, it does appear that this grubmint has continued howards legacy of attacking unions and further restricting the Unions (and therefore employees) right to strike, amongst a myriad of other employer friendly/employee unfriendly laws and regulations, all of which has contributed to lower wages and more unsafe work places”

I’m sure yomm will correct if I’ve misinterpreted his verbal diarrhea post

https://twitter.com/TomRU12/with_replies

I find that misguided.

Not for the company

Sure, they paid the lawyers what they could have paid their workers over a couple of years, but, after that, the lawyers are gone, but the workers remain, and now they don’t have to pay them that.

It pretty simple really.