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The Royal Commission: Unleashed!

February 4, 2019

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This is an open thread for youse to all add your insightful commentary into the findings of the Royal Commission into the financial services industry…

 

 

424 Comments leave one →
  1. February 4, 2019 4:01 pm

    The suspense is not quite killing me.

  2. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 4, 2019 4:39 pm

    I would like to acknowledge that I was very skeptical about this inquiry. I had no idea how rotten the banks were. I am usually much more astute than that!

  3. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 4, 2019 4:49 pm

    Dutton looks like he is actually serious about doing something.

  4. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 4, 2019 5:23 pm

    Bowen speaks like a weasel. In principle support but reluctant to commit to specific reforms. His union mates probably have some skin in the game, just like Dutton’s mortgage broker mates.

  5. shaneinqld permalink
    February 4, 2019 5:29 pm

    Well my Industry is now dead and the major winners are the big 4.

  6. Walrus permalink
    February 4, 2019 6:11 pm

    Careful what you wish for

  7. shaneinqld permalink
    February 4, 2019 6:23 pm

    Yes Walrus we agree.
    I just never thought that it would be turned around the way it has been. The big 4 will have total control again in less than 12 months time. They must be rubbing their hands with glee.

  8. February 4, 2019 6:31 pm

    Josh Frydenberg is a fucking moron.

  9. TB Queensland permalink
    February 4, 2019 7:38 pm

    I was very skeptical about this inquiry

    Dutton looks like he is actually serious about doing something.

    Bowen speaks like a weasel.

    Which politician voted 26 times AGAINST a RC?

    Same people same comments … and spiral continues – downwards …

  10. TB Queensland permalink
    February 4, 2019 7:40 pm

    His union mates probably have some skin in the game, just like Dutton’s mortgage broker mates.

    In fact the Industry Funds (if that’s who you are referring to) came off scott free of criticism – and this RC Report should keep the banking wankers out of boardrooms for a least a generation …

    And no matter how you scrape it – a Potato Head is a Potato head …

  11. Walrus permalink
    February 4, 2019 10:27 pm

    Yes Shane perversely this WILL reduce competition in the home loan market
    I think both sides of politics need to be careful about the mortgage broker market

    I think the bank stocks will go up on ASX tomorrow depending on Wall Street staying fairly normal on a world market basis.

    Very surprised vertical integration seems barely touched.

    Yes I’m reading the fucking PDF

    Such is my tortured life 😀

  12. Kerry Marcon permalink
    February 4, 2019 10:43 pm

    I hate libs and their mates – they shit me to high heaven and this in turn causes me to swear a lot.

  13. shaneinqld permalink
    February 5, 2019 5:36 am

    Walrus

    The mortgage broker market is dead after this. The CBA is the massive winner along with the other big 3. While there are some slaps on the wrist for them they will regain control of the mortgage market. Mortgage brokers came into existence due to the big 4 closing branches in a massive rush after the privatisation of the CBA.

  14. shaneinqld permalink
    February 5, 2019 5:41 am

    The associations media release.

    Dear Member,
    Herewith, the MFAA’s media release in response to the Final Report of the Royal Commission into Misconduct in the Banking, Superannuation and Financial Services Industry.
    We will provide further communications in the coming days.

    Customers pay while the big banks profit
    The recommendations on mortgage brokers represent a huge win for the Big Four banks.
    Destroying the viability of the mortgage broker channel would immediately reduce competition and drive customers back into the branches of the banks with the largest branch networks.
    MFAA CEO Mike Felton said these recommendations did not represent a good outcome for consumers.
    “These policy recommendations are effectively a new multi-thousand-dollar tax on borrowing. They will put the broker channel at severe risk, damaging competition and access to credit and entrench bank power,” Mr Felton said.
    “As reviews by ASIC, the ABA and the Productivity Commission have found, brokers drive competition by providing a shopfront for smaller lenders, particularly for rural and regional customers. We are critical to the health of Australia’s mortgage lending market.
    “I fail to see how decimating the broker channel, leaving Australians with a handful of lenders to choose from, is good for competition, or good for customers,” Mr Felton said.
    “At this stage it is still unclear whether the Final Report is recommending a consumer fee-for-service or the so-called ‘Netherlands’ model.
    “If the recommendation is a broker only consumer fee-for-service, that will mean brokers and smaller lenders will no longer be able to compete on a level playing field with the big banks with major branch networks.
    “We know from recent, independent research that 96.5 per cent of customers are not willing to make a payment to a broker of $2,000 and most are unwilling to pay anything at all.
    “This sort of fee would see consumers deserting brokers, cutting access to smaller lenders and driving consumers into the branches of the major lenders. This will increase bank power, and make getting access to a home loan harder and more expensive for home buyers,” Mr Felton said.
    The recommendations also referred to a “lender fee” at a branch level alongside a consumer fee-for-service to ‘level the playing field’, or the so-called ‘Netherlands’ model.
    This recommendation ignores key elements of the Netherlands model that are critical to understanding the way it works.
    “A key aspect of this model relates to a customer’s ability to pay the fee. In the Netherlands, all interest on a home loan and costs relating to establishing a home loan are tax deductible, including the acquisition of advice relating to the loan. These can be deducted over the life of the loan. This, of course, would never happen here, and can only add to the current affordability crisis for those already struggling to afford a home,” Mr Felton said.
    “Another key aspect of the Netherlands model that has been ignored is the ability for the banks to undercut the broker channel. As such, the only way this could work is if fees were of comparable size and not of a level that challenges viability for broker businesses.
    “However, the Commissioner has stated that this fee should be the equivalent of the banks’ cost of writing a home loan. In this case, the large lenders’ enormous economies of scale will mean their costs will be a lot lower than the marginal cost for a broker to arrange a suitable loan for a customer, which will therefore necessarily undercut the broker channel. Again, this brings great risk that consumers simply desert the broker channel, decimating competition and access to credit, which is a very poor outcome for consumers.
    “While the major lenders will be very happy about these recommendations, we fail to see how this is a good outcome for everyday Australians.
    “Finally, while we disagree on the proposed abolition of trail commissions, we welcome the more measured approach being taken by the Government. We look forward to working with the Government, Treasury and Opposition to work through these recommendations and to find solutions that represent good outcomes for consumers, not just for major lenders,” Mr Felton said.

    Kind regards,

    Mike Felton
    Chief Executive Officer
    Mortgage & Finance Association of Australia (MFAA)

  15. Tom R permalink
    February 5, 2019 8:44 am

    Dutton looks like he is actually serious about doing something.

    That wankers done enough already. The sooner GetUp! get’s him out, the better.

    Bowen speaks like a weasel. In principle support but reluctant to commit to specific reforms.

    You mean, after being given the report 5 minutes earlier?

    Josh Frydenberg is a fucking moron.

    He’s just the libs whipping boy, first Weatherill, now Haynes.

    came off scott free of criticism

    I think there was one who sent an email/letter(?) who’s wording wasn’t perfect. 😉

    Labor, when in power, tried to do this the correct way, by legislating against crooked behaviour, as it was clear, even back then, that banks etal were out of control. But the libs had to come in and undo it all. And now sit back going “Labor, Labor, Labor”

    They own this, and the punters will make them pay.

  16. Tom R permalink
    February 5, 2019 8:51 am

    lol

  17. shaneinqld permalink
    February 5, 2019 9:27 am

    ToM R

    There are honest people who are going to be decimated while the big 4 regain total control of the market. I was all for the RC but the outcome is not what was expected because the big 4 will be the control masters and competition will die. 27,000 of us and our employees are being thrown to the wolves for the sake of a few. How Commissioner Hayne cannot see this is beyond me.

  18. Tom R permalink
    February 5, 2019 10:00 am

    How Commissioner Hayne cannot see this is beyond me.

    Perhaps he can. Was he limited by the terms of reference in some manner?

    He is not a happy looking chappy, forced into a corner he does not want to be in.

  19. shaneinqld permalink
    February 5, 2019 10:16 am

    ToM R

    If he can see it, then why would he recommend what he did?
    When a financial planner charges a fee it comes off your personal balance or earnings. When a mortgage broker is paid a fee it is paid by the lender you send the loan to. It costs the customer nothing. Brokers not only visit customers and take all details, they have to order valuations, do assessment, make sure it fits all of the lenders criteria and if it does only then can you submit the application. If approved we even printout all the bank documents for the client. The bank also does not need to worry about sick leave, long service leave, holidays, compulsory super or a bricks and mortar building. The costs of providing a loan have all been slowly pushed onto mortgage brokers while our up front has reduced by 40% and our trail reduced by 40% since the GFC.

    Trail is a payment to provide continuing service to the client after the settling of the loan. That service includes fixing loans, assisting with difficulties, helping with forms, looking at top ups and options, discharges of sale of properties, dealing with solicitors for purchases etc etc. 95% of my calls each day are from existing clients seeking help of some kind. Trail also allows brokers to absorb the applications and the associated costs involved for loans that are not approved.

  20. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 5, 2019 10:20 am

    It is hard to feel sorry for an industry which takes massive commissions from lenders while purporting to act in the best interests of borrowers. The incentives are calculated to see brokers trying to earn the most commission often at the expense of borrowers.

    The gist of the MFAA whining is that if borrowers know how much brokers make out of them they won’t pay it.

    And cry me a river about the loss of jobs. The reason for regulating the sector is to stop brokers screwing borrowers. If brokers had behaved honestly this would not be necessary.

    Anyway most brokers have grown fat on their ill-gotten gains earning big dollars from borrowers while hiding the amount borrowers end up paying them through increased interest and fees. Unfortunately the fuckers won’t starve anytime soon.

  21. Tom R permalink
    February 5, 2019 10:27 am

    I feel dirty, but well said splats

    I especially liked the bit about ” cry me a river about the loss of jobs” 😉

  22. Tom R permalink
    February 5, 2019 10:33 am

  23. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 10:57 am

    How Commissioner Hayne cannot see this is beyond me.

    As I read it Haynes issue is with brokers’ trailing fees … personally I’ve always thought they were a rort … in insurance too (an industry I played in – for just over a month)

    I see, splatterbum … reached the same conclusion …

    The gist of the MFAA whining is that if borrowers know how much brokers make out of them they won’t pay it.

    ………

    Trail is a payment to provide continuing service to the client after the settling of the loan.

    Something they don’t do! It’s payment for —- nothing … as Haynes says …

    What say you have your car serviced and you pay a trailing fee for the life of the car (just in case you need advice) – and still pay for services …

    Ahhh … … 95% of my calls each day are …

    Perhaps you should charge by the hour for services rendered … not collect trailing fees from people (probably the Pareto 80%) who DON’T need advice.

  24. shaneinqld permalink
    February 5, 2019 11:07 am

    Borrowers do know how much is paid. I have to provide a credit proposal disclosure to every client.
    It advises the client how much up front commission will be paid and how much I will receive from the up front trail.
    It also advises the client the maximum possible monthly trail provided.
    So my clients know exactly how much I am earning !!
    What it doesn’t detail is if the clients loan is repaid ( for any reason even death) in the first 12 months, then 100% of the up front commission will be taken back from me.
    What it doesn’t detail is if the clients loan is repaid ( for any reason even death) in the next 12 months then 50% of the up front commission will be taken back from me.

    I see I am on a hiding to nowhere here.

  25. shaneinqld permalink
    February 5, 2019 11:09 am

    Oh well looks like most of you support the big 4 to have total control again.

  26. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 11:12 am

    Now these are weasel words, tied up in a whole lot of ignorance …

    Frydenberg declined to say whether heads should roll. “I’m not getting to comment on specific cases or individuals or indeed companies, but I will leave that to the boards and the shareholders to make their own decisions”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/04/essential-poll-labor-seizes-on-banking-brawl-as-lead-over-coalition-narrows

    Boards? Shareholders?

    Try ASIC APRA and the Federal and State Police … along with the appropriate Criminal Courts … stealing and fraud are CRIMINAL offences along with deception and entrapment … I’m sure the cops can find a few more than the “boards and shareholders” …

    What a dopey, ignorant prick!

  27. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 11:13 am

    All Ords +1.5%!

  28. Tom R permalink
    February 5, 2019 11:51 am

    Who would have guessed? The banks have emerged as relative winners from the royal commission’s final report.

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2019/02/04/pascoe-royal-commission-winner-big-banks/

  29. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 5, 2019 2:04 pm

    So here a couple of the recommendations:

    •Commissions should be largely eliminated from the financial sector, including mortgage broking, financial planning and insurance sales

    •Mortgage brokers should meet similar requirements to financial planners to put their clients’ best interests first

    The first is to get the incentives right. The borrower pays the broker. This is sensible – akin to stopping drug companies giving kick-backs to doctors and chemists.

    The second is obvious. If a borrower goes to a broker expecting the broker to get he best finance available and the broker fails to do so then the broker should be liable for the borrower being out of pocket.

    Maybe Shane can explain a better way to get the incentives aligned.

  30. Tom R permalink
    February 5, 2019 2:25 pm

    as a slight, but related, diversion, KISS

    https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/01/23/688018907/episode-688-brilliant-vs-boring

  31. February 5, 2019 3:31 pm

    “Oh well looks like most of you support the big 4 to have total control again.”

    I’m not sure if anyone here is arguing for that…

    Seems to me that the whole thing is about making the system more transparent – replacing trailing commissions and other questionable practices with a transparent fee for service.

  32. Tom R permalink
    February 5, 2019 4:01 pm

    Seems to me that the whole thing is about making the system more transparent

    speaking of ‘transparency’

    busted scotty

  33. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 4:27 pm

    I guess this sums it all up pretty well … a Robber Baron telling the truth … while not telling the truth?

    When asked about the huge bonuses paid to bank executives, Dr Henry began talking about the state of capitalism.

    “The capitalist model is that businesses have no responsibility other than to maximise profits for shareholders,” he said.

    “A lot of people who have participated in this debate over the past 12 months have said that’s all that you should hold boards accountable for, is that they are focused on the maximisation of profits for shareholders.”

  34. Tom of Melbournew permalink
    February 5, 2019 5:29 pm

    I think that statement by Ken Henry at the RC has been both criticised and ridiculed

    Do you agree with his trite statement TB?

  35. shaneinqld permalink
    February 5, 2019 5:32 pm

    The Banks close branches
    Customers look for face to face visits so brokers are formed
    Small lenders use brokers as they have no branch presence and as such pay a commission to the broker of around 1.5% of the loan value.
    Big banks enter the broker market to avoid losing market share
    Banks reduce up front commission from 1.5% to 0.6 or 0.7%, while offering a trail to avoid churn of loans. Banks introduce clawback provision of 100% for 12 months and 50% for 2 years on up front irrespective.
    2008 GFC hits banks reduce up front by a further 40% while taking trail away for first 12 months and reduce trail payment by 40%. A massive reduction to broker commission. Why ?, because they could.
    When a broker refers a loan to a bank the beneficiary is the bank, if their is no commission from the bank then the bank has received a loan for free with all the legwork done and at no cost. Behind the scenes the big 4 are rubbing their hands with glee at this.
    Regarding charging for service, a poll was done of broker customers and while virtually all of them were very happy with the service and would use their broker again,plus recommend them to others, they were unwilling to pay a fee for the service.
    Broker complaints through the ombudsman service represent less than half of 1%( the ombudsman statistics) of total complaints in the financial services industry yet we write almost 60% of loans.
    Every single dollar of commission is revealed in a document provided to clients.Both up front and trail. I have never had a client question me about commissions. Today I have had 4 clients ring me and say how are you going to survive now that the banks have are going to get the loans for free. They are horrified. I told them I wont survive and depending on what the ALP do in regards to timing, will start looking for a job after the election. Need to get in before 27,000 go on the scrap heap.

    Reb

    They certainly are arguing for that if they are supporting the removal of trail for mortgage brokers because that will be the outcome.

  36. shaneinqld permalink
    February 5, 2019 6:03 pm

    The market has proven that the big winners were the big 4. Blind Freddy could see this.

    ANZ was up 6.5%, Commonwealth Bank added 4.69% and Westpac increased 6.36%.

    NAB rose 3.91% after its chief executive, Andrew Thorburn, said on Tuesday morning he had cancelled the remainder of his two months’ leave and added he was “more determined than ever” to lead the bank’s response to Kenneth Hayne’s report.

  37. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 5, 2019 6:07 pm

    What we need is a platform where borrowers can put up their financial and credit details and borrowing requirement and have financial institutions bid for the business.

  38. shaneinqld permalink
    February 5, 2019 6:12 pm

    What did you think a broker did ?

  39. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 7:17 pm

    Eventually former prime minister John Howard emerged to slam the idea, describing it as “rank socialism” and suggesting the mutiny was due to anger about the same-sex marriage vote.

    Where do creepy crawlers come from? The LNP!

    What do you do to creepy crawlers?

  40. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 7:33 pm

    Do you agree with his trite statement TB?

    The key question, ToM, is do you agree …?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Shane, do you go to a broker to buy a car? Think Central Bank (RBA) who (supposedly sets interest rates) and retail banks (think car dealer) …

    Banks sell money … car dealers sell cars … which industry has “brokers” …

    If Labor do take the reins in May … they really need to sort this shit out … we vowed we would never borrow from banks again in 1983 – after they had told us we had a mortgage and then when the sale was being concluded shifted quarter of the loan to personal (higher interest rate) … The Minister and I cannot believe it has taken so long to reach this stage!

    I reiterate 1983 we knew the bank NAB was silly buggers … and when we did pay of the mortgage (early) … they sent me a letter stating that we had some stupid amount – $850 that had been charged at a rate of 19%!!! That had blown out to over $3000 in a year!

    I sent a very polite letter (from Port Moresby) to our bank manager, David, with a copy of our payout … David was decent bloke and I still have his letter of apology … the question begs how many didn’t challenge them?

    If the LNP are returned, if senior bank elites don’t go to jail … this country is definitely run by the mafia … I always knew they were the Robber Barons!

    Disgusting shit today … only personal benefit will be (a short-lived) increase in my super.

  41. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 5, 2019 7:43 pm

    TB, I think the statement is trite and simplistic. Therefore I suppose it would appeal to many.

  42. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 9:01 pm

    And you should know by now … nor would it “appeal” to me …

    Surely by now you know my philosophy?

    Look after the client/customer and the dollars will folla!

    My family (kids/grandkids) have been taught via cliche’s … the most important (to them apparently – ’cause they repeat it to me) … never make a profit from family or friends … however, in all walks of life … learn the system and use it to your advantage …

    And that’s exactly what The Robber Barons have manipulated … the system … and a system is only as good as the people who operate it!

    A family member works for NAB and they are the most directive, authoritarian, misguided management company I’ve ever encountered …

    Accountants are great with moving money around … but awful managers (also a profession BTW) … just as James Hardie were awful – controlled by engineers and chemists … NOT professional managers) …

    Ken Henry and his ilk see … $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ … not 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 …

    And stealing for yourself or your shareholders is STEALING!

    No, you can’t put a corporation in jail … but you can put the board in jail …

  43. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 9:35 pm

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/banking/what-the-banking-royal-commissions-recommendations-mean-for-you/news-story/b357811bfe074d76ad308589efbf984f

    If you use a mortgage broker, you will have to pay a new upfront fee.

    So don’t use a broker … get off your arse and do your own research … in 1973 The Minister caught a bus to the local shopping centre and visited (walked) to every bank to find a mortgage loan (I was working) … as a tradie I didn’t “earn enough” along came the Commercial Bank of Australia (later swept up by NAB – who wouldn’t give us a mortgage loan) … and we got a loan off CBA … home paid off in 11 years (including 2 years NS – pay went from $280 pf to $80 pf!) … see above what happened when we sold …

    the change will mean you will only default into a super account if you are new to the workforce or don’t already have one. Whenever you move jobs, you will stay “stapled” to that one default account.

    What a brilliant idea … duh! … providing Industry Funds are the “staple”!

    3. IF YOU’RE A FARMER

    You need to read it all … its great in theory … but any system is only as good as the people operating it …

    It is often a struggle to get insurance companies to pay up.

    I spent 12 months* fighting against APIA (Suncorp – Alliance etc etc ) after a burglary in 2011 regarding jewellery – sort version they insisted we use their jewellers to buy replacement – we said it was impossible (with the crap and service they offered) we wanted cash to replace jewellery that was gifts, over 40 years old , mementos from o/seas trips … we won … but the Insurance Act only covers contracts – in the insurance companies favour of course …

    * other people just give up (it is tedious)

    If you are wronged by a financial institution and have a court or tribunal find in your favour, but the company fails to compensate you — if it goes bankrupt and can’t pay, for example — there will be a “compensation scheme of last resort” to help you.

    The scheme will be funded by the financial industry.

    Meanwhile, the government has committed to pay $30 million to 300 people and small businesses who are still owed money from past cases.

    Once again a system is only as good as the people who use/control it …

    $30 million to 300 … jesus fucking christ … 300! I saw a figure last night (can’t remember where) it could be – $7 billion!!!!!!

    Have you noticed all these foundation organisations of judeo/christian society have raped pillaged and razed our 20th/21st Century villages families and children for The Robber Barons … Elites by any other name …

    And when the economy falls flat again guess who pays? We do! The people who worked our arses off 12/15 hour days retired with a comfy retirement to be hit by the GFC …

    Saved most of our lives but still paying other peoples fucking debts gambles off !

  44. Tom R permalink
    February 5, 2019 9:37 pm

    I think that statement by Ken Henry at the RC has been both criticised and ridiculed

    By bankers I’m assuming.

    So, do you disagree with this ‘trite’ statement?

    Should a company care ONLY about ‘shareholders’?

    Because, seems to me, apart from the moral side of things, this has come to bite them in the backside; by ignoring their customers and ignoring society at large, they have in fact done damage to their shareholders.

    And, if BankRC2.0 gets off the ground, then they aint seen nothing yet!

    But, more than that, they just should consider more than that, because, as somebody mentioned, we live in a society, not an economy.

    And like it or not, they are part of that society.

    So, you might call it petty little names like it means something, but, across the broader community, it has hit the nail right on the head.

  45. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 9:38 pm

    How long have some of you dicks been laughing at my Robber Baron comments?

    And this …

    I still prefer to live in a society rather than feed the greed in an LNP economy!

  46. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 9:39 pm

    LOL! @ TR!

  47. Walrus permalink
    February 5, 2019 10:50 pm

    “February 5, 2019 6:12 pm
    What did you think a broker did ?”

    I agree with Shane

    I don’t know what a broker gets these days but as an example a first home buyer now would let’s say need to to turn up with an extra $7k let’s say as a broker fee rather than just have that built into the repayments. Then if the house they bought they refinance after 5 years the trailing comm dies if it goes elsewhere then the broker loses unless he can do another good deal for them.

    I really don’t like the RC recommendation and I rarely agree with Shane but otherwise the Bank just gets an implied trailing comm plus a higher rate as no competition except for amongst the 4

  48. Walrus permalink
    February 5, 2019 11:02 pm

    It’s a dumb idea and as such I’m sure Bill Shorten will embrace it

  49. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 11:07 pm

    The point is why use a broker anyway … just a second layer of cost …

  50. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 11:15 pm

    And fuck “trailing fees” off all together … I’ve sold many “things” and “concepts” in my life the only one that had trailing fees was insurance … just because its an “industry tradition” doesn’t mean its OK … trailing fees are monster costs for nothing … and that was Haynes point …

    The finance/banking/insurance/super industry (it certainly ain’t a profession) is just designed to leech as much money from unsuspecting punters (and there is a lot of ’em ) as possible …

    Duty of care. In tort law, a duty of care is a legal obligation which is imposed on an individual requiring adherence to a standard of reasonable care while performing any acts that could foreseeably harm others. It is the first element that must be established to proceed with an action in negligence.

  51. TB Queensland permalink
    February 5, 2019 11:28 pm

    The financial/banking industry can easily be held in breach of Duty of Care … in relation to the law of torts … *

    Similarly, a higher standard may be owed in certain circumstances if:

    ♦ if the defendant holds themselves out as having special skills, knowledge or expertise

    They have a higher duty of care than normal …

    https://queenslandlawhandbook.org.au/the-queensland-law-handbook/health-and-wellbeing/accidents-and-injury/duty-of-care/

    * This pathway can become very expensive … ie the barrister we engaged in the early 2000s (the cheapest!) was $4500 per day (he worked for roughly an hour for us) … unusually 100% of cost were awarded to us (usually costs are awarded to whoever wins the case @ 75% – so it generally still costs the winner)

  52. shaneinqld permalink
    February 6, 2019 7:27 am

    Since brokers came into being the margin on loans for the banks has been trimmed by 300 basis points. That’s what competition has done to the lending market. Now TB if you think the banks are going to pass that on to the borrowers once the brokers exit the market then you have for far less intelligence than I give you credit for. I worked for them for 25 years OI know exactly what will happen.

    FFS TB the market spoke volumes yesterday about who are the winners in this. The big 4 and you seem totally blind to this fact.

    People use brokers for loans, super, investment, insurance AND CARS so your comment regarding cars is totally wrong. Google car brokers and see for yourself.

    People use brokers because they are time poor. they trust a broker more than their bank. Your bank will not tell you there is a better deal down the road. The forms and complex application for a loan these days confuses people. Personal service. the same person all the time rather than staff changes. With us now having 60% of the market and all my customers come from recommendation alone I think that speaks volumes despite your detesting us as though we are a pox on the earth TB.

    Usually TB you and i agree and Walrus and I disagree. But on this I totally agree with Walrus and totally disagree with you.

    I am not going to comment on this topic anymore but will enjoy the conversation TB in a few years time in relation to competition and the number of funders left in the industry along with the margins of the major 4 in comparison to today.

  53. February 6, 2019 7:31 am

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  54. TB Queensland permalink
    February 6, 2019 10:50 am

    Google car brokers and see for yourself.

    of course I know – I sold cars for 12 months in the days of the Datsun 180B and they were around then … But you don’t have to use them … and there is/was no … trailing fees!

    Trailing fees are the issue here … not brokers per se …

    I suppose the new market opening up for brokers will be in “banking/finance complaints” …

  55. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 6, 2019 10:55 am

    A used car salesman! That doesn’t surprise me!

  56. Walrus permalink
    February 6, 2019 10:56 am

    So you expect Shane to arrange a 20 year loan then administer it (issue statements arrange drawbacks or forward payments, issue interest rate letters) for the next 20 years for a one off flat fee ?…………………………….Are you serious ?

  57. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 6, 2019 11:04 am

    I’m in two minds about mortgage broking. I can see the potential for ethical conflict. I can also see that many people need a service to consolidate the loan options.

    First home buyers are unlikely to cough up another $7k for this.

    I think business abounds with examples of rebates and commissions that aren’t transparent to the consumer

  58. Tom R permalink
    February 6, 2019 11:16 am

    Seems I was wr….wr……….wrro

    inaccurate

    Shareholders still making their dough, courtesy of some “under the table” inter-action between the banks and the grubmint

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2019/02/05/royal-commission-insider-trading/

  59. Walrus permalink
    February 6, 2019 11:28 am

    So it seems the LNP is reluctant to accept the recommendations on mortgage brokers yet the ALP wants to legislate everything immediately.

    Seems next election Shane will be like a turkey voting for Thanksgiving

  60. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 6, 2019 11:34 am

    “I think business abounds with examples of rebates and commissions that aren’t transparent to the consumer”

    Most of which make it easier for the consumer to be screwed.

    The big fear of mortgage brokers is that borrowers will not want to pay their fees. Says something about the value people place on their services.

  61. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 6, 2019 11:51 am

    Most of which make it easier for the consumer to be screwed

    Many of the arrangements operate like a buyer’s collective and may assist small businesses or individuals obtaining prices that would not otherwise be available for them

  62. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 6, 2019 12:04 pm

    And remember when a Royal Commission found examples of unions accepting secret/non disclosed fees from employers?

    Not everyone here saw that as a particular problem

  63. Tom R permalink
    February 6, 2019 12:12 pm

    So it seems the LNP is reluctant to accept the recommendations on mortgage brokers yet the ALP wants to legislate everything immediately.

    and

    Bowen speaks like a weasel. In principle support but reluctant to commit to specific reforms.

    If only there was some sort of ………………… middle ground lol

  64. Tom R permalink
    February 6, 2019 12:33 pm

    Not everyone here saw that as a particular problem

    Probably because most of those ‘secret deals’ weren’t secret, ie, the Unions advertised them.

    And, do you have examples of people being fleeced from any of those cases? From memory, everyone was a winner from that, employees, employers, and Unions.

    No wonder employers hated it. Nothing hurts them more than a contented workforce. Fear and mistrust keeps workers compliant.

  65. Tom R permalink
    February 6, 2019 12:51 pm

    btw reb, who’s the leprechaun?

  66. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 6, 2019 1:55 pm

    Trump is smashing it out of the park with his SOTU address!

  67. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 6, 2019 3:27 pm

    Trump:

    “Here in the United States, we are alarmed by the new calls to adopt socialism in our country. America was founded on liberty and independence, and not government coercion, domination and control. We are born free and we will stay free…America will never be a socialist country.”

  68. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 6, 2019 3:34 pm

    I started to listen to Trump, but I couldn’t hear over my dry reching

  69. TB Queensland permalink
    February 6, 2019 3:55 pm

    A used car salesman! That doesn’t surprise me!

    There ya go again … jumping to conclusions (false conclusions) …

    Quite a bit of knowledge and skill in selling cars … I doubt you’d pass muster … you need to understand a wide range people … and a fair bit of psychology …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Trump is smashing it out of the park with his SOTU address!

    What no adverts beamed onto the Whitehouse while he’s “speaking”? … and I love the royal “we” (are alarmed) … its amazing how many self fulfilling “alarms” actually come about because the people get fed up of being ripped off … all across the Western World … people are pissed off because they know they are being screwed by the very people who say “we are alarmed” FFS!

  70. Tom R permalink
    February 6, 2019 5:28 pm

    America was founded on liberty and independence

    But not fairness, apparently? [facepalm]

  71. TB Queensland permalink
    February 6, 2019 6:00 pm

    Love the sign – especially the top left in yellow!

  72. TB Queensland permalink
    February 6, 2019 6:11 pm

    Love it, TR …

    Its not about being rich … its about helping your society improve by paying you fair share to maintain and support it … and these twits promote christianity? Whatever happened to love they neighbour? Thou shalt not steal? Hy – p – o – crites!

    And many scholars believe JC was the first recorded socialist … laughable …

    The exreme Uber Kapitalism we are now experiencing is forcing people to look at the situation – their situation … and it will force drastic action and a self fulfilling alarm if it continues …

    Elysium – film – is a taste!

  73. Tom of Melbournew permalink
    February 6, 2019 6:31 pm

    The exreme Uber Kapitalism we are now experiencing 

    Yes, it is outrageous that people have to pay so much for a basic taxi.

  74. Tom of Melbournew permalink
    February 6, 2019 6:34 pm

     … and a fair bit of manipulation psychology …

  75. TB Queensland permalink
    February 6, 2019 8:09 pm

    … and a fair bit of manipulation psychology …

    Obviously you’ve only experienced one side of the negotiation equation … and been outgunned every time … I’ll bet … 🙂

    Not all buyers are at the mercy of a good salesperson … some are pretty good at “manipulation” … usually senior managers/internal consultants …

    Here’s a couple of tips when buying … be prepared to walk away … make an offer – and shut up – first one to speak loses … do your research … check out at least three dealers … know what you want in a car and always road test first …

    Until my present Santa Fe I always used to buy cars a year old … but I keep cars for a decade (sometimes longer) …

    I’ll send you a contract if you like … no trailing fees just an agreed percentage of the final buying price …

  76. February 6, 2019 8:19 pm

    It’s occurred to me that rather than having an RUOK? day what we really need is a “Why are you so fucking happy day?”

    Because let’s face it, everyone has fkn problems that are shitting them day in and day out so the delusional fuck that’s going about their day-to-day business in some sort of tranquil bliss is bound to be the exception rather than the norm.

    Wouldn’t we be better served, finding out what makes these so-called apparently “happy ppl” tick rather than just burdening ourselves with other people’s problems on top of the ones we’ve already got?

    And another thing, why oh why do we pay taxes….??

  77. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 6, 2019 9:05 pm

    why oh why do we pay taxes….??

    I agree. What possible good is it? At mainly goes to public servants and welfare, and certainly there are few of either that deserve the money.

    I’m trying to reduce the amount of tax I’m paying, but the downside is that I have to earn nothing.

    There’s always a catch with taxes

  78. Tom R permalink
    February 6, 2019 9:35 pm

    What possible good is it?

    What have the Taxes ever done for us!

    ………………………………
    ………….The aqueduct!
    😉

  79. TB Queensland permalink
    February 6, 2019 10:10 pm

    Just for the rich pricks here … (I paid my 46 cents in the dollar gracefully)

    “I do think a system that allows billionaires to exist when there are parts of Alabama where people are still getting ringworm because they don’t have access to public health is wrong,” she said.

    She proposed a marginal 70 per cent tax on earnings above $10m – the top rate of tax in the US is currently 35 per cent.

    When asked – amid peals of laughter around the room – if he supported the plan, Dell, who has a net worth of $28.6bn, replied that he didn’t.

    “My wife and I set up a foundation about 20 years ago, and we would have contributed quite a bit more than a 70 per cent tax rate on my annual income,” he said.

    Latching on to the idea that the super-rich are all philanthropists and that society should rely on their goodwill, Dell added: “I feel much more comfortable with our ability as a private foundation to allocate those funds than I do giving them to the government.” *

    He went on to assert that it wouldn’t support the growth of the US economy, and when he was asked why not, Dell replied: “Well, name a country where that’s worked. Ever.”

    Unfortunately for Dell, he was joined on the panel by Erik Brynjolfsson, Director of the MIT Initiative on the Digital Economy, who piped up: “The United States.”

    “From the 1930s to the 1970s, the tax rate averaged about 70 per cent. At times it was as high as 95 per cent – and those were actually pretty good years for growth.” ®

    * Clement Attlee(‘s biographer) said: “Charity is a cold, grey loveless thing. If a rich man wants to help the poor, he should pay his taxes gladly, not dole out money at a whim.”

  80. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 6, 2019 10:17 pm

    “””””””From the 1930s to the 1970s, the tax rate averaged about 70 per cent””””””””””

    Did that do anything for the poor?

  81. TB Queensland permalink
    February 6, 2019 10:22 pm

    The Queensland Premier has “set up a fund” for the poor sods in Townsville … privatisation of government drought and flood relief – again … if Clivey Palmer paid his workers and paid his taxes instead of running a dumb “Make Australia Great” campaign he could donate enough by himself!

    Any pledges from Prime Preacher Morrisdumb?

    And why did it take so long to call in the Army – its a fkn army town! The diggers LIVE there with their families …

  82. Build`the`Wall`Teabag permalink
    February 7, 2019 6:03 am

    I reckon teebz had a good point with his `tort` comment. l am also not surprised by the big-4 thinking they came out winners of royal-comm `lite` as shane pointed out. l have always seen it from the `not-fit` for purpose aspect of consumer law which insurance is exempt (and no doubt the rest of finance is exempt too) that continually gets away with selling junk (premium for no cover, theft) aided and abetted by govt/s for decades.

    ____

    When it comes to `brokers` shane, l see this as just another exercise in outsaucing. 30-years ago ; joe public could go down to main street and visit 3-or 4 banks, a `state` bank; comm-bank ; and a shareholder owner bank (or 2 or 3) .. Now when the public visit their main street ; there is often NO bank ; the branches have been shut all over the place. . l don`t have any axe to grind about `brokers` shane ; but l would point out that by your numbers of 60% of loans are made by brokers ; consider the huge amount that are in boltsvillage and jonestown ; where the construction and land trading volume is.

    ____

    The day was not just for royal-comm lite either! lt has not gone un-noticed that the `ignorance of-boltsvillage` didn`t mention that his state had their `second` grenfell experience! @WinkWink

  83. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 7, 2019 9:02 am

    reb: what we really need is a “Why are you so fucking happy day?”

    True that!

    Is your surname Downer by any chance?

  84. TB Queensland permalink
    February 7, 2019 11:37 am

    Bob? Do we have a Bob?

  85. Tom R permalink
    February 7, 2019 2:58 pm

  86. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 7, 2019 3:25 pm

    Wilcox is plug stupid (and not funny at all). The rebate exists so people on low rates of tax are not disadvantaged. The system is to avoid double taxation.

    Franking credits recognize tax paid by the company and are passed to shareholders so that the shareholder is not taxed again on the income which has already been taxed at the company level.

    Without the rebate a person on, say, a 10% tax rate will be taxed at 30%.

  87. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 7, 2019 3:42 pm

    Occasional Cortex is also a blithering idiot:

    “I do think a system that allows billionaires to exist when there are parts of Alabama where people are still getting ringworm because they don’t have access to public health is wrong,”

    People don’t get ringworm because they don’t have access to public health. They get it from public showers, sharing towels and other contact with the fungus. She can treat hers with Canestan.

    The worst thing in the world is to have socialist numbskulls (but I repeat myself) running the show. Socialism inevitably leads to poverty, misery and death. Just ask the Venezuelans! Remember when flatulent Phil Adams was blowing smoke up Chavez’ backside?

    We have watched developments in Venezuela with great interest. We have been impressed by the great effort that your government has taken to improve the living standards of the majority of Venezuelans. We have also noted with keen attention the moves that your government has begun to make to create a society based on popular participation in all spheres of society—from the workplace up to the national government.

    Although we are on the opposite side of the globe we feel that our shared ideals of social justice and democracy bring us close together. Every country has its own traditions and culture and has to find its own solutions, but what Venezuela has been able to achieve in so little time will be a source of inspiration and ideas for many in Australia.

  88. Walrus permalink
    February 7, 2019 3:43 pm

    “Without the rebate a person on, say, a 10% tax rate will be taxed at 30%”

    Yep and a person on a tax rate above 30% including me and the super wealthy will still get the full tax rebate. It’s only those below 30% that cop it in the neck.

    ALP for the less well off ?…………………………………Absolute BULLSHIT !

  89. TB Queensland permalink
    February 7, 2019 4:09 pm

    Be afraid, very afraid … they’re using the S word more and more …

    Research commissioned by the Australia Institute has found that 75 per cent of the dividend tax credits have gone to households in the top 10 per cent of incomes.

    Some 50 per cent of all households received less than 5 per cent of all franking credits, according to the research by NatSEM, the modelling consultants based at Canberra University.

    “Franking credits are worth about $30 billion per year in Australia. About $10 billion go to households and another $10 billion go to superannuation funds, trusts and charities,” said the Australia Institute.

    “The remaining $10 billion go to other Australian companies.

    “The international evidence shows that Australia is extremely generous when it comes to franking credits.”

    Research by the Parliamentary Budget Office found half the cash refunds went to the wealthiest 10 per cent of self-managed superannuation funds which had balances over $2.4 million. It found the top 1 per cent of self-managed superannuation funds get an average annual refund of $83,000.

  90. TB Queensland permalink
    February 7, 2019 4:10 pm

    How to defend welfare for the rich … if you remove it its socialism!

  91. Tom R permalink
    February 7, 2019 4:17 pm

    Franking credits recognize tax paid by the company and are passed to shareholders so that the shareholder is not taxed again on the income which has already been taxed at the company level.

    financial planner gobbledook

    A pensioner pays no tax, yet gets a tax refund.

    Cigarettes, Beer and petrol are taxed, and then I pay GST on them.

    Now THAT’S Taxed Again ©

  92. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 7, 2019 4:20 pm

    I see you are quite the tax professional, Tom R! You might be better off getting Walrus to do your return. He’ll probably get you a nice fat refund!

  93. TB Queensland permalink
    February 7, 2019 4:29 pm

    You don’t need a “tax professional” to sort out your finances … especially if the cock that the AFR write is true …

    Mark Draper of GEM Capital estimates that a retired couple who own their own home and have $800,000 of investments could see their annual income plummet to $38,000 from $60,570 as a result of the pension and franking changes combined.

    Based on personal experience (and income) as a self funded retiree/part pensioner for 11 years those numbers are either pure bullshit, incorrectly calculated, fudged, or demonstrate pure incompetence in the financial advice industry … you can hardly call it a profession …

  94. TB Queensland permalink
    February 7, 2019 4:33 pm

    The Australian Labor Party (ALP) has announced that if it wins at the next election it will reform the dividend imputation credit system, removing cash refunds for excess dividend imputation credits, also known as franking credits.

    They have announced they will not change the system of dividend imputation, but rather they will remove the ability to claim excess imputation credits in cash from the Australian Taxation Office (ATO). The change will start from 1 July 2019 and won’t apply to cash refunds to charities and not-for-profit institutions (like universities). In a later statement, the ALP updated their proposal to also allow Centrelink pensioners (full and part) and allowance recipients to continue to receive cash refunds. This will also extend to self-managed superannuation funds (SMSFs) that had at least one pensioner/allowance recipient before 28 March 2018.

    The savings to the Budget are estimated to be $10.7 billion over 2019/20 and 2020/21, and $55.7 billion over ten years1. The ALP has said it will use these savings to fund personal tax cuts and social policy expenditure

    https://www.ioof.com.au/financial-advisers/news-and-insights/adviser-news/articles/may-2018/dividend-imputation-credits

  95. TB Queensland permalink
    February 7, 2019 5:18 pm

    Breaking the law again!

    The Australian electoral commission says a Liberal-linked “grassroots” retirees group campaigning against Labor’s franking credits policy appears to have breached electoral laws by failing to properly disclose the sources of paid advertising.

    Guardian Australia revealed on Thursday morning that the Liberal candidate Robert Gunning has helped to orchestrate the Defenders of Self Funded Retirees, a group representing itself as a community-led retiree movement against the Labor policy.

    The group has paid for targeted Facebook ads and has built a professional campaign website, neither of which include authorisations telling voters who is paying for the advertising. Its links to the Liberal party are not disclosed in any of its campaign material.

    Chortle …

  96. Walrus permalink
    February 7, 2019 5:59 pm

    “”……………those numbers are either pure bullshit,”

    I disagree. Maybe slightly over but pretty much ballpark. ANZ are paying $1.60 on a price of $26.86 today then if grossed up the yield becomes 8.5%. Most of the Big 4 are at that level now. IAG (NRMA Insurance) are at $7.61 paying 0.32c p.a. at a gross of 6% but they have been running up for a while now as I bought around 2 years ago @ $5.59 so I’m getting 8.1% on my outlay.

    You just got to be prepared to go with the flow and ignore downs and buy good quality yield stocks when they are beaten down.

    I’m watching Mortgage Choice at the moment as they crashed by 29% following the RC recommendations on brokers.

    I dont think the changes to mortgage brokers will go through. And if they do my Big 4 will probably add 15% to their valuations by the time the year is done.

    Mum and Dads love Telstra. Most analysts believe its dividend will be cut from $0.22 to $0.17. If it stays at $0.22 the gross yield will be 9.85% based on todays close of $3.19. If it is cut as predicted it will be 7.6%

  97. TB Queensland permalink
    February 7, 2019 7:51 pm

    Wally we know to the cent what our income is, what our expenditure is and our current capital balance …

    from $60,000 to $38,000 is dramatic to say the least … if it bothers them there are other investment options available …

    I sold off all my shares a year before we retired and the returns (all profitable BTW *) all went into our super … we bought Telstra I and II and were one of the few who made a profit!

    I’ve always aimed at a 6% pa steady … and + – 5% capital shift … consistent since the GFC (and minimal share market mix in super) … **

    And yes, you deal with whatever comes along … The Minister and I didn’t receive the GFC $900 ($1800) … because we hadn’t put a tax return in in 2007 (retired in 2005) … swings and roundabouts … Hockey had us racing for the FIS and our super fund advisors after 2014 … or we would be paying tax – with no rebate!

    You do understand that the issue is not brokers but trailing fees? I’ve hated the fkn concept since I was educated enough to understand them …

    * Your favourite comeback was purchased after we retired … oddly enough based on an altruistic motive – I hoped it would give our diggers an edge in the field … ex-generals and inventors make lousy business managers …

    ** I used to do my calculations with a pencil and calculator when I was in my forties … I had no idea about investment options (or WTF they were until I an Associate Diploma in my 30’s that led to my degree … so in your field I’m a raw amateur … we just happen to be careful with money … it began with a baby on the way, $300 in the bank, a $1600 debt and NS a year later … try living on army ration packs for two weeks! Makes you careful as you move on …

  98. TB Queensland permalink
    February 7, 2019 8:43 pm

    I’ve waited three decades for this …

    A Sunshine Coast director has been sentenced to one year in jail, and fined $1 million, in a Queensland-first Workplace Health and Safety trial.

    Gary Lavin, and his company Multi-Run Roofing, were on Wednesday found guilty of reckless conduct, after a 62-year-old roofer died at a worksite in 2014.

    Whareheera Keepa Te Amo died after falling almost six metres off a roof at Wimmers soft drinks’ Cooroy factory in 2014.

    After a week-long trial, Judge Glen Cash told the Maroochydore District Court, Mr Lavin had been motivated by money in choosing not to erect safety rails at the site, which would have saved Mr Te Amo’s life.

    What a great precedence …

    Now will thieves from the banking and finance gangs go to jail?

    Henry and Thorburn have just done a runner … not good enough!

  99. TB Queensland permalink
    February 7, 2019 8:47 pm

    Even journalists can’t spell correctly …

    Australian scientists work to put bite on mosquito-bourne Zika virus

    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/australian-scientists-work-to-put-bite-on-mosquito-bourne-zika-virus-20190206-p50w54.html

  100. Make`America`Great`Again`Teabag permalink
    February 8, 2019 5:27 am

    Yes it is a good outcome teebz ; but he will probably appeal and sentence reduced. The going rate for willfully, recklessly, negligently murdering workers or public by boardrooms is usually 80k per head. By the look of the NAME of the worker ; my bet is he was an underpaid islander too.

    (yes, glad to see jumped up henry and friend have to boot selves out of nab boardroom too)

  101. Tom R permalink
    February 8, 2019 8:54 am

  102. February 8, 2019 9:24 am

    “I’m trying to reduce the amount of tax I’m paying, but the downside is that I have to earn nothing.”

    Have you considered negative gearing? Apparently you can earn nothing and other taxpayers will help you build a real estate empire..

  103. Tom R permalink
    February 8, 2019 9:38 am

    Apparently you can earn nothing and other taxpayers will help you build a real estate empire..

    Or retiring with an investment portfolio. Taxpayers will then support your luxurious lifestyle

    Which is kinda funny that #freedomboy is the one literally dying on a hill for this

    I mean, I’d love an investment portfolio, but I’m already basically working for nothing, so, ………. not sure where the spare cash for ‘investment’ is 😦

  104. Tom R permalink
    February 8, 2019 9:45 am

    #freedomboy seems to have his snout further in the trough than anyone before him

    This is the douche bag who argues against any Taxpayer funds for those less well off

    hypocritical snake

  105. TB Queensland permalink
    February 8, 2019 11:34 am

    Did I just hear the All Ords go BOING! (and a cat meow?)

  106. February 8, 2019 11:36 am

    Anyone spot Walrus in the crowd…

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  107. February 8, 2019 11:38 am

    It’s funny to see freedom boy losing his shit in that video.

    Not so funny to see the mob laughing and clapping when that old fella falls to the ground.

  108. Tom R permalink
    February 8, 2019 12:19 pm

    Not so funny to see the mob laughing and clapping when that old fella falls to the ground.

    It pretty much reflects their outlook to be honest.

  109. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 1:49 pm

    Pecker problems: The Richest Man in The World Took Photographs of His Penis… Then Things Get Weird

  110. Tom R permalink
    February 8, 2019 2:09 pm

    Good on her

    Margaret Chuck, 63, was the lone speaker in favour of Labor’s policy and was repeatedly booed by the crowd during her presentation.

    “This is not money these people have earned. This money comes out of other taxpayers’ pockets in such a large amount that it would cover the funding of public schools all across Australia,” she said to groans from the audience.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/this-is-a-sham-chaotic-scenes-as-man-ejected-from-tim-wilson-s-franking-credits-inquiry-20190208-p50wil.html

  111. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 2:19 pm

    “This is not money these people have earned. This money comes out of other taxpayers’ pockets in such a large amount that it would cover the funding of public schools all across Australia,” she said to groans from the audience.

    Margaret is very stupid. Margaret certainly did not earn the money and neither did the “taxpayers”.

    Also, there is nothing more ridiculous than someone who is very stupid thinking that they know how to best spend other peoples’ money.

    The problem (if there is a problem) is that some people pay less than 30% tax and are therefore entitled to a tax refund.

  112. Tom R permalink
    February 8, 2019 2:46 pm

    Coupla things splatz

    Margaret never claimed to have earned the money, and she simply said taxpayers are paying it (hard to dispute)

    Who says the lot booing her have ever paid anything near 30% tax either?

    We have millionaires not paying any tax ffs

    Interestingly, the only point she got wrong, was the bit about public schools, it should have been what the Federal Government spends on public schools (who are being ripped of even more than our feckless media realised under goneski 2.0

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/07/special-deals-swindling-public-schools-out-of-billions-new-analysis-says

  113. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 2:57 pm

    If you are talking about passive investment then it is stupid to say that the recipient of the income didn’t earn it. Of course they didn’t. In this case the company did, but so what?

    In our system the company effectively withholds 30% tax and then when the dividend is paid taxpayers on a higher than 30% rate pay more tax and those on a less than 30% rate get a refund.

    From your point of view, the real issue is that some people pay less than 30% tax and therefore are entitled to a refund.

    There are two logical ways to deal with your “problem” – increase individual tax rates or abolish the franking system. Getting rid of rebates disadvantages those on lower tax rates.

  114. Tom R permalink
    February 8, 2019 3:22 pm

    or abolish the franking system.

    This was brought in well after Keating introduced the Franking system. removing it won’t hurt it.

    The most ‘logical’ way to deal with it, is remove it.

  115. Know`Collusion`Teabag permalink
    February 8, 2019 3:34 pm

    It seems to me ; `investors` can configure and reConfigure their investments as they please. The govt giving `refunds` to NONtaxpayers is very Nanny State. Welfare for Wealthy is also very Nanny State.

  116. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 3:42 pm

    The most ‘logical’ way to deal with it, is remove it.

    Arbitrary and asymmetric rules are bad policy.

    “removing it won’t hurt it.”

    That is not a reason for anything! You sound like Occasional Cortex.

    She has just advocated, as part of her (Soylent) Green New Deal: “Economic Security for Those Unable or Unwilling to Work”.

  117. Rusher`is`FakeNews`Teabag permalink
    February 8, 2019 3:57 pm

    Looks like splatter still swoons for the `Failed yank blue print` of corporatism. Despite the avalanche of evidence piling up that it fails most citizens, most of the time on most topics, global cooling included.

  118. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 4:03 pm

    Yep. Big failure in Venezuela, wasn’t it?

  119. Tom R permalink
    February 8, 2019 4:12 pm

    Arbitrary and asymmetric rules are bad policy.

    You mean like arbitrarily and asymmetrically deciding that boomers can get tax free dollars without doing anything?

    Dividend imputation was originally introduced in 1987 by treasurer Paul Keating to prevent double taxation – not to literally pay people finite taxpayer money for investing in shares.

    The refundability of excess credits did not arrive until John Howard and Peter Costello decided to add some goodies for the Baby Boomers and older voters, many who receive the government pension while living in multimillion-dollar homes.

    https://www.afr.com/news/economy/baby-boomers-cry-poor-but-labor-gets-it-right-on-dividend-tax-20180315-h0xhfy

  120. Know`Collusion`Teabag permalink
    February 8, 2019 4:36 pm

    Yep, and the rest of hispic/ south/ central america, carribean/ islands, argentina, mexico, cuba etc All hollowed out and drained under the corporatism blue print.

    ___

    On my abc24 ” parliament computer system hacked ” @and they were doing so well with myPrivacyInvasionHealthRecord (-:

  121. TB Queensland permalink
    February 8, 2019 4:53 pm

    Yep. Big failure in Venezuela, wasn’t it?

    But the US sanctions were a huge success …

    “… has really become the poster child for how the combination of corruption, economic mismanagement, and undemocratic governance can lead to widespread suffering”

    Or …

    The report listed five main causes, poor GDP growth, government debt and deficits, budget compliance and data credibility. Causes found by others included excess government spending, current account deficits and tax avoidance.

    Or …

    … legislators unveiled several proposed amendments to the state constitution. One of the most significant was a proposal to provide protection for private property rights. Legislators also indicated there would be a new emphasis on certain aspects of overall government economic policy, including efforts to reduce unemployment (now in the 8–10% range in urban areas), to re-balance income distribution between urban and rural regions, and to maintain economic growth while protecting the environment and improving social equity … approved the amendments when it met in March 2004.

    And just what is:

    … undemocratic governance …

    Undemocratic:

    A system, process, or decision that is undemocratic is one that is controlled or made by one person or a small number of people, rather than by all the people involved

    That describes the Westminster System pretty well I’d say …

  122. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 4:57 pm

    ToM R, I’ve explained it to you already. No need to demonstrate that the AFR is biased, ignorant and incompetent. I get that. That is all.

    Retardland, socialism is evil. it fails every time.

  123. February 8, 2019 4:58 pm

    It’s important to point out that when someone whinges about losing $30,000 if the franking credits rort is wound back, they would need to have an investment portfolio of around $2 million.

  124. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 5:01 pm

    What sanctions TB? The ones Trump imposed last week? The ones Obama imposed on corrupt officials. You sound like Ken Livingstone.

  125. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 5:03 pm

    Indeed, reb. I have a friend who whines about that to his mates causing laughter and mockery at his misfortune.

  126. Tasers`On`Stun`Teabag permalink
    February 8, 2019 5:04 pm

    But venezuela is just a weak look over there from splatters. We were always referring to Aust following the `Failed yank Blue print` of corporatism, in which our country now flounders. Some of that evidence ; is the fish kills ; floods and bushfires (all at the same time) ; royal comm lite ; opal tower ; falling highway sign ; second grenfell cladding fire ; and more that makes Aust look like a 3rdWorld country; fully captured by corporatism corruption.

  127. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 5:04 pm

    This is a great headline:

  128. TB Queensland permalink
    February 8, 2019 5:29 pm

    I’ve just had a “thank you” delivered in the shape of a hard back copy of Bob Woodward’s FEAR …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    What sanctions TB?

    er … the ones since 2006 to 2019 … odd those dates …

    What caused Venezuela’s collapse?

    On 2 June 2010, President Chávez declared an “economic war” due to the increasing shortages in Venezuela. The crisis intensified under the Maduro government, growing more severe as a result of low oil prices in early 2015, and a drop in oil production from lack of maintenance and investment.

  129. TB Queensland permalink
    February 8, 2019 5:37 pm

    … fully captured by corporatism corruption …

    So, one week a successful western “capitalist democracy” the next a “capitalist communist” country … the world and blogs work in mischievous* ways!

    * This word is pronounced ‘mischivus’ not ‘mischeeviiuus’ (I get so sick of news readers’ pronunciation!**)

    ** PronUNciation not pronOUnciation (its not even spelled that way FFS!)

  130. Beam`Me`Up`Teabag permalink
    February 8, 2019 5:53 pm

    Playing deputy and cheering for say, yank sanctions on venezuela (or others) today ; may be the very same sanctions china impose on us tomorrow ; be careful what you swoon for! lt does not matter which flavor of yank tyrant (bush, theRonald, obama) stopped venezuela getting its bank funds. Continually trying to cripple any country only results in creating more poverty and misery and kaos which spills out all over the place and makes everything else Worse. You would think these idiots would have learned this by now.

  131. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 5:57 pm

    The only US sanctions on Venezuela are those recently applied by Trump. They did not contribute to the destruction of the Venezuelan economy. Socialism has never worked anywhere.

  132. Rusher`is`FakeNews`Teabag permalink
    February 8, 2019 6:16 pm

    The sanctions are an interference of another Nation. Period. l don`t care who `applied` them. l don`t care what the `flavor` (capitalist, commie, social-blah, demo-blah, republi-blah, westmin-blah) of the Nation is. Previous failed sanctions (iran, iraq, russia, ussr, korea) and previous failed wars (iraq, afghan, vietnam, korea) demonstrate the `yank blue print` of corporate whim granting is an utter failure. Aust should not be following it.

  133. Know`Collusion`Teabag permalink
    February 8, 2019 7:12 pm

    Just az long az pronunzyation and spleling miss steaks doughent distract the soft ov mind.

    I`ve never been in the Westish supremacy club or part of its swooners teebz. To me it looks like china is winning big time ; and smart enough to keep winning ; while our duopoly duds will keep us losing on all fronts, with no end in sight.

  134. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 8, 2019 7:25 pm

    FOAC

  135. TB Queensland permalink
    February 8, 2019 8:54 pm

    Socialism has never worked anywhere.

    Ya think? What do YOU mean when you write “socialism” …

    =================================================

    To me it looks like china is winning big time ; and smart enough to keep winning ; while our duopoly duds will keep us losing on all fronts, with no end in sight.

    Oddly enough that seems to be true … if you go up to my comment … February 8, 2019 4:53 pm … you’ll see three blockquotes … I’d hoped that some inquisitive mind might question them … the first quote refers to:

    Venezuela

    The second to:

    Greece

    The third:

    China

    Its not the “isms” etc as you point out … its always the leadership … and as we’re experiencing in the West … we have none … they are STILL simply letting our villages be raped, pillaged and eventually razed … all for GREED!

    The spectre of 1789 France will rise again … the English aristocrats were terrified when the French eventually revolted – just a hop skip and a jump across the Channel … as was the Czar and the “white Russians” what a fkn oxymoron that was …

  136. TB Queensland permalink
    February 8, 2019 8:56 pm

    I despise acronym …

    FOAC Franchise Owners Association of Chicagoland (7-11; Illinois and Indiana)
    FOAC Family Outdoor Adventure Club (Livonia, MI)
    FOAC Federal Office Automation Center
    FOAC Future Offensive Air Capability
    FOAC Federal Office Automation Conference
    FOAC Firing on All Cylinders (leadership seminar; Jim Clemmer)
    FOAC Friends of Animal Control (Sonora, CA)
    FOAC Friends of A Cockatoo (graphics)
    FOAC First-Order Autocorrelation Coefficient

    There is more but I won’t bore you …

  137. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 8, 2019 9:05 pm

    >>>>>>>>>>It’s important to point out that when someone whinges about losing $30,000 if the franking credits rort is wound back, they would need to have an investment portfolio of around $2 million.>>>>>>>>>>>

    After years of reading comments by ALP supporters I have come to the conclusion u will agree with anything the ALP does. If Howard proposed what the ALP has done your comment would be completely different

  138. Tom R permalink
    February 8, 2019 9:47 pm

    The AFR is Socialist!

    😆

  139. TB Queensland permalink
    February 8, 2019 11:27 pm

    Sad! And they vote!

  140. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 9, 2019 10:02 am

    “What do YOU mean when you write “socialism””

    The term broadly covers systems based on ownership of the means of production by the state.

    Includes systems based on state control of means of production as was the case in the national socialist variant.

    Includes communism, Chavez style Bolivarianism, Castro family fiefdoms and the Kim family cult.

    Venezuela qualifies due to the state ownership of significant businesses, tight regulation of private businesses, land seizure and redistribution and currency, price and wage controls.

    Socialism inevitably leads to totalitarian rule as the state requires power to control the economy. Corruption soon follows.

    Does not include market economies based on private ownership of means of production, even those with extensive welfare states.

    Only idiots believe socialism is beneficial.
    Don’t be an idiot.

  141. TB Queensland permalink
    February 9, 2019 10:09 am

    As I suspected … some edification for you … you should find the comparison chart enlightening (I do hope so) …

    https://keydifferences.com/difference-between-communism-and-socialism.html

    Don’t be ignorant … 🙂

  142. Tom of Melbournew permalink
    February 9, 2019 10:51 am

    I’m planning my retirement and soon. The ALP policy will make me quite a lot worse off in my retirement

  143. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 9, 2019 11:03 am

    TB, why do you peddle that twaddle?

    Denmark is not a socialist country. Nor are the other Nordic countries.

    The core of socialism is, broadly, state ownership or control of the means of production. That is why communism is merely a variant of socialism. You can widen if you wish to other forms of social ownership but that is purely theoretical. I don’t know of any economy where the means of production are all socially owned but not by the state.

    The bottom line is that expanding the definition doesn’t exclude communism as a form of socialism.

  144. Tom of Melbournew permalink
    February 9, 2019 11:35 am

    Odd… those Nordic countries admired by TB and other left types are monarchies

  145. ivi permalink
    February 9, 2019 1:12 pm

    (The bottom line is that expanding the definition doesn’t exclude communism as a form of socialism….Odd… those Nordic countries admired by TB and other left types are monarchies

    Ah, so: fair, the ring-breaker who bears the crown; foul, the ring-taker who claims it their own.)

  146. February 9, 2019 1:16 pm

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  147. February 9, 2019 1:17 pm

    “I’m planning my retirement and soon. The ALP policy will make me quite a lot worse off in my retirement”

    In what way…??

  148. TB Queensland permalink
    February 9, 2019 2:05 pm

    Odd… those Nordic countries admired by TB and other left types are monarchies

    Not in the true sense of the word … few “monarchies” actually “rule” … by your simple definition democracy should not exist in Australia as our “head of state” is a monarch …

    You’ve just highlighted the ludicrous monster that a modern royal family represents in what is supposed to be an educated and enlightened Australian population …

    Adding an argument of monarchies who have no real power (except wealth and entitlement) as a feature of political government is a nonsense … European monarchies in particular are simply window dressing puppets for the masses …

    The Nordic model refers to the economic and social policies common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, the Faroe Islands, and Sweden). This includes a comprehensive welfare state and collective bargaining at the national level with a high percentage of the workforce unionized while being based on the economic foundations of free market capitalism. The Nordic model began to earn attention after World War II.

    The core of socialism is, broadly, state ownership or control of the means of production. That is why communism is merely a variant of socialism.

    Actually communism is a subset of socialism … there was individual and state owned production/welfare for centuries before communism or fascism reared their ugly heads …

    Communism

    Social organization system, that focuses on communal ownership and eliminating class distinction.

    Socialism

    Theory of social organization where there is public or cooperative ownership of the means of production.

    What we are heading for is corporatism … if you want to add another ism to the mix …

    If a Communist country embraces capitalism it has shifted to a form of Socialism …

    You should research the French Communist Party … probably not if your drinking something …

    My “arguments” are based not on political models per se but on how they impact on people’s lives … and at the moment most people are being screwed because of politics and more particularly the ideologies of the right … with regard to fairness, corporate regulation, welfare, health, political transparency, climate change, taxes and encouragement of selfishness and greed …

    Disclaimer: Me and mine will survive pretty well in any political scenario — including anarchy! It is other members of society that need help.

    Who will help ToM when the market collapses next year???

  149. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 9, 2019 2:21 pm

    <<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    What u r supposed to say is that u r happy to pay more tax to support schools, hospitals and whatever way the ALP plans to waste the taxpayers money they get. All for the common good of course

  150. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 9, 2019 2:24 pm

    My comment was directed to this statement… “I’m planning my retirement and soon. The ALP policy will make me quite a lot worse off in my retirement”….

    I am not looking forward to the next ALP govt. They will just hunt around for more revenue from hard working people

  151. Tom of Melbournew permalink
    February 9, 2019 3:20 pm

    I didn t say anything about democracy TB. Only that the Nordic countries that you and other often comment favourably about are monarchies.

    Are you suggesting they’re socialist oriented, democratic monachies?

    I think the meet the definition of mixed economy, as do most western economies.
    ————
    Apparently I’ll be worse off as i have a reasonable share holding and won’t obtain the same benefit from the franked dividend.

  152. February 9, 2019 3:29 pm

    I’m not sure how (potentially) losing something now at some later stage in the future that you don’t actually currently receive now makes you in any way worse off.

    It’s like saying the government currently gives 80 year olds a corvette, but when I turn 80 I won’t get one, so today I’m worse off.

    Are you sure you’re not a Trump supporter..??

  153. Tom of Melbournew permalink
    February 9, 2019 3:43 pm

    As I said, I’m going to stop working soon, and spend my time mainly having surf safaris.

    So the income I could reasonably expect is likely to be less.

    I’m not particularly upset, but a reduction in income for anyone isn’t something that should be dismissed.

  154. TB Queensland permalink
    February 9, 2019 6:28 pm

    ToM, build a bridge, try a 75% drop in income thanks to the government … and I suspect you never paid provisional tax in your life either … we just got on with it …

    Joe Hockey had us scrambling in 2014 … as self funded retirees … you still voted the wanker back in … not a word here …

    Life and governments and taxes change constantly … but never the whinging and “what about me” mostly from people who can afford not to whinge … you happily supported penalty rate cuts … for low paid workers … I’ve seen nothing to say that cafes open longer or employ more staff?

    A dollar for some is equal to $100 (($1000) for others!

    BTW … if you think you can stop working when you retire good luck … you just don’t get paid for it!

  155. TB Queensland permalink
    February 9, 2019 6:33 pm

    sreb, I reckon its time for a new banner tag …

    The Gutter Trash

    Real Fake News!

    😉 🙂

  156. Tom of Melbournew permalink
    February 9, 2019 6:55 pm

    TB. Provisional tax isn’t extra tax ir a new tax. It is hust a way of paying your tax and it is refunded if you’ve paid too much.

    Do you see the difference between that and actually having the government extract more than anticipated?

  157. TB Queensland permalink
    February 9, 2019 8:31 pm

    TB. Provisional tax isn’t extra tax ir a new tax. It is hust a way of paying your tax and it is refunded if you’ve paid too much.

    You have obviously NEVER operated a business … let’s hear from Wall”y about provisional tax!

    I guess ignorance is bliss .

  158. Tom of Melbournew permalink
    February 9, 2019 10:03 pm

    If all I had to do was find enough for a tax installment , no problem. But a government reducing actual income for prople planning retirement is entirely different, and seems punitive.

    But as I’ve said I’m not particularly upset about it, I’m still going to have my planned surf safaris

  159. TB Queensland permalink
    February 9, 2019 11:52 pm

    … a government reducing actual income for prople planning …

    Try a government “guessing” what you would earn 12 months in advance – based on a 10% increase …

    But as I’ve said I’m not particularly upset about it

    Yeah, it sounds like it … 🙂

  160. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 10, 2019 8:25 am

    YesTB, and if you’d paid too much the government gave you a refund. Big deal.

    This is taking money that I’d planned to use for retirement. Unlike you there will be no refund a few months later.

  161. TB Queensland permalink
    February 10, 2019 10:11 am

    YesTB, and if you’d paid too much the government gave you a refund. Big deal.

    er, two years later … if the business income drops the loss of that money can cause a collapse …

    In you case all you need to do is shift your capital to other investments …

    Your awakening to funding retirement has only just begun? How do you think retirees felt in 2008? We lost a six figure amount – and I knew it was on the horizon friends of ours (more than one) lost half of their capital …

    We have friends who retired three years ago who say if it happens again it will just build up again … not the same as if you are working it won’t …

    The proposal aims to reduce emissions to net-zero in 10 years, provide universal health care, guarantee jobs for all with sick leave and paid holiday, and ensure retirement security.

    Works for me …

  162. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 10, 2019 10:48 am

    It’s bizarre TB that you are trying to equate tax paid in advance with the GUARANTEE IF A REFUND, if you pay too much, with a policy that is specifically intended to reduce incomes for people that have planned and financed retirement

  163. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 10, 2019 10:51 am

    And you’re equating a fall in share prices to a policy to specifically reduce incomes!?

  164. TB Queensland permalink
    February 10, 2019 12:09 pm

    And you’re equating a fall in share prices to a policy to specifically reduce incomes!?

    Just pointing out that life’s a bitch … live with it … like the rest of us have had too …

    … a policy that is specifically intended to reduce incomes for people that have planned and financed retirement

    (Oh we know about planning for retirement, ToM, and how governments fuck it up … I’ve been stuffed by the bastards more than once in my life …. welcome to retirement)

    Specifically intended to reduce incomes? Stretching it … Howard’s twist was to feed his wealthy base with more cash for votes …

    All bad things come to an end … and timing is everything … as Joe Hockey told us … the age of entitlement is over … seems it means the well off as well as the poor … hey?

    Bit of history for you …

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-27/pensions-dont-change-promise-check/5388348

    You could always work a bit longer as Joe suggested … 🙂

  165. TB Queensland permalink
    February 10, 2019 12:11 pm

    And you’re equating a fall in share prices to a policy to specifically reduce incomes!?

    BTW … HTF did you reach that conclusion before you accused me of “thinking” it?

    Bizarre …

  166. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 10, 2019 12:50 pm

    There is a policy from the likely next government that is specifically intended to reduce the income of some people, particularly retirees.

    Your reply is to say –
    * you’ve had to pay tax that you’ll get back if you’ve paid too much
    * the share market can fall

    Really?

  167. MARY permalink
    February 10, 2019 6:33 pm

    As a financial adviser, my best financial advice to clients was always ” stay away from financial planners”.

  168. TB Queensland permalink
    February 10, 2019 6:56 pm

    Really?

    Let me make it simple … suck it up princess … some of us have had our retirement income fucked around with longer than you have …

    As for: you’ve had to pay tax that you’ll get back if you’ve paid too much

    Actually that’s not how provisional tax works you pay BEFORE you earn it …

    Try paying 210% of you present tax … and running a business on the net … for two years … and another provisional tax … sure it came back … if I didn’t make a profit! And depleting capital funds don’t help operating costs …

    By the way the share market will fall … and rise … and fall … and rise … ad infinitum … but not always as drastic as 2008 … you weren’t retired then were you … had an income and time on your side …

    Nuff …

  169. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 10, 2019 7:38 pm

    TB, I’m becoming persuaded that you’re a either a dill or you simply choose to ignore facts
    1. You get the money back if you pay too much provisional tax, the a refund arrives
    2. Many SFRs will get a reduced income as the intended consequence of the ALP policy. No refund, nothing

  170. TB Queensland permalink
    February 10, 2019 10:47 pm

    You obviously don’t understand how provisional tax hurt small business … therfore the analogy is lost on you …

    As for your bleating about “reduced income” … its because you are getting something for nothing … from taxpayers …

    Just as taxpayers fund investors for the costs associated with their property investments …

    And brokers fees should be upfront and transparent … not hidden in the fine print of a contract document …

    As I said … nuff ..

  171. Shane in QLD permalink
    February 11, 2019 6:21 am

    FMD TB

    There is a 2 page form that is given to clients, that IS ONLY for the disclosure of ALL COMMISSION in actual dollars, PLUS any other costs such as Bank and Government Charges. It is NOT hidden in some long contract as you claim. It also details the Maximum, amount as though the loan is never ever repaid. In other words it is so over the top of the actual amount it is ridiculous. It also does NOT detail to the client that the commission will be clawed back if the loan is repaid within the first 2 years., leaving the broker out of pocket.

    It is called a Credit Proposal Disclosure and is given to clients BEFORE a loan is decisioned.

    How more transparent do you want ??

    You obviously have no idea whatsoever, so stop spouting utter lies.

    You have lost all the respect I had for you with that totally false comment.

  172. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2019 8:49 am

    So the income I could reasonably expect is likely to be less.

    If you want to rely on lazy, self entitled ‘investing’ paid for from taxpayer dollars, rather than using your smarts and investing wisely, like ‘libertarians’ tell we should

    https://thekouk.com/item/669-my-statement-on-refundable-franking-credits-to-the-house-of-representative-economics-committee.html

    There is a policy from the likely next government that is specifically intended to reduce the income of some people, particularly retirees.

    RICH retirees. And, THIS grubmint has reduced the income of
    • poor retirees
    • “working Australians”
    • Unemployed
    • Pensioners

    It is hust a way of paying your tax and it is refunded if you’ve paid too much.

    FYI yomm, many of these don’t pay tax, so, how do they pay too much?

    “From the point of the view of these non-taxpayers, dividend imputation became a negative income tax: instead of them paying the government money, the government paid them money.

    As far as is known, it is an enhancement that has not been copied anywhere.

    On one hand, it makes sense because it treats non-taxpayers the same as taxpayers by refunding them the same amount of company tax.

    On the other hand, it does not make sense because it means that instead of being taxed once (at either the company or the personal level) as was the original intention, company profits can escape tax altogether.

    https://theconversation.com/words-that-matter-whats-a-franking-credit-whats-dividend-imputation-and-whats-retiree-tax-111423

  173. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 11, 2019 10:41 am

    The govt should try spending cuts rather than to take more money from people

  174. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2019 10:50 am

    You understand that no longer paying people who don’t pay tax would qualify as a “spending cut” don’t you nil?

  175. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 11, 2019 11:12 am

    30% tax has been paid. Tax is refunded to people on less than 30% tax rate. Simples. Even you know that Tom R. You just like to troll.

  176. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2019 11:23 am

    Tom R’s points are more rational than-
    * I paid provisional tax
    * The share market can fall

  177. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2019 11:26 am

    30% tax has been paid.

    not by the recipients of the largesse

  178. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 11:42 am

    You understand …. nil?

    Stop making me giggle, TR!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You obviously have no idea whatsoever, so stop spouting utter lies.

    I don’t lie, Shane.

    I can only comment on the contracts I’ve seen over the years for trailing fees*, Shane, in a range of industries. As can you I guess.

    Tell me … do you have an alternative “upfront fee” provision?

    *hire purchase, insurance, personal loans, superannuation and yes, mortgage contracts …

    Sorry that you’re offended …

  179. shaneinqld permalink
    February 11, 2019 11:42 am

    ToM

    I agree with your comments regarding provisional tax. I have been paying it for 15 years now.

  180. shaneinqld permalink
    February 11, 2019 11:59 am

    TB

    Have you ever used a Mortgage Broker ( not any other type of broker but a Mortgage Broker) ?

    What do you mean by alternative “upfront fee” provision?

    I suggest you actually have a look at a Credit Proposal Disclosure that a Mortgage Broker issues before you comment.

    I am offended, very offended. You are not telling the truth. You are insinuating that I am sneaky regarding how I am paid. My clients are told at the very first meeting exactly how and why I am remunerated!

  181. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 12:53 pm

    You are insinuating that I am sneaky regarding how I am paid.

    Not at all … I’m saying that many contracts with trailing fees I’ve come across are difficult to decipher by the average Joe …

    As for using a mortgage broker … no … but then I’ve only ever lived in/owned two homes … and reviewed just three contracts for mortgages for other people …

    What do you mean by alternative “upfront fee” provision?

    A lump sum fee for service … generally referred to as a commission … a once off payment …

    And before you get further offended, my comments have never been directed at you but the system you happen to work with …

    FYI, I have hated trailing fees for decades … because I’ve either bought or sold the products I mentioned earlier … my nature is to conclude a deal and move on … selling or buying …

    My daughter/in/law works for NAB … and while I have thorough distaste for the organisation and make comments as such they’re not aimed at her or other employees but the bank’s systems and management.

  182. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 12:54 pm

    ” … while I have thorough distaste for the organisation … ”

    Based upon treatment we received after being NAB customers for over a decade …

  183. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2019 1:11 pm

    not by the recipients of the largesse

    They are the owners of the business, the tax has been paid by the owners.

  184. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 11, 2019 1:44 pm

    Don’t feed the troll, ToM. He knows the answer but he prefers to get himself off on his uncanny ability to lie and deceive. Each time you respond his fingers get stickier!

    He is a true sophist – a person who reasons with clever but false arguments

  185. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2019 1:45 pm

    They are the owners of the business,

    Then why are they called ‘investors’?

  186. Build`the`Wall`Teabag permalink
    February 11, 2019 2:04 pm

    So `Real FakeNews` is going to be your main game now teebz/reb (l`m telling russell brand) ; good luck with that ; the legacy outlets will still compete rigorously on that front! (-: (-:

    ___

    l think you need to stop self identifying shane. l have no doubt on `your` ethics, they come come across loud and clear in your comments. l have no doubt `you` are ethical in both biz `and` life. However, l do not believe `all` your industry does, particularly in the big-2 ; jonestown and boltsvillage as both towns are loaded with greedy, corrupt, stupid types. We have long term, `inHouse` working examples.

  187. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 2:21 pm

    Shane, I think, tbagz, last comment re your ethics mirror my own pretty much … much better than my inept attempt earlier …

  188. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2019 2:41 pm

    Who owns the company if the owners/shareholders don’t?

  189. Tom R permalink
    February 11, 2019 3:00 pm

    Who owns the company if the owners/shareholders don’t?

    Why don’t you ask murdoch or trump?

    https://www.ft.com/content/7bd1b20a-879b-11e5-90de-f44762bf9896

  190. shaneinqld permalink
    February 11, 2019 3:40 pm

    Teabag

    How can you not self identify when the industry you are part of is being labelled corrupt or underhanded or deceitful. The royal commission attacked the part of the industry with 0.05% of complaints, honestly that simply amazes me.

    If you are a funder who has money to lend and no branch network or field staff and you don’t have the resources to set up a branch network so you decide to pay a commission to brokers to locate suitable borrowers for you and those brokers do all the visiting, identification, valuation of property, income assessment and application, but you have the final say and if the loan proceeds you pay a broker for that loan. Saving you the enormous expense of a network and as such you share a minute portion of your profit, then why should that be outlawed.

    ING has come into the argument strongly in favour of brokers because they know their viability is gone if brokers are decimated.

    This morning for the first time in my life I agreed with Pauline Hanson when she said brokers are the scapegoats and the big 4 are the winners of this royal commission.

    The biggest one to gain from all of this is the CBA, yet it was the original privatisation of that bank that started the existence of brokers due to the wholesale sacking of staff and closing of branches. Now it and the other 3 big banks are going to rejoice in their monopoly. If you think the 3% that brokers have driven interest rate margins down by will go to borrowers then I have an opera house you can buy !

    I would have thought the 99.5% of complaint areas warranted much more investigation than the 0.05%.

    If a company had a complaints ration of 0.05% in comparison to the rest of its industry it would be rejoicing from the rafters.

  191. shaneinqld permalink
    February 11, 2019 3:57 pm

    Just a few facts for you all.

    In 2017 brokers had fewer than 1 consumer complaint for every 21,000 new contracts.

    We represented 91% of the membership of our ombudsman and the rest of the industry was 9%.

    While we represented 91% of membership we represented only 6% of complaints. That means any complaint at all whether it is found to be true or false or valid or invalid.

    So 9% of the finance industry represented 94% of all complaints.

    Yet we wrote more than 50% of all loans !!!

    Yet we are the part of our industry that is thrown to the wolves.

    No matter what you think, the facts do not reveal an industry that needs reform from corruption or manipulation or underhanded tactics.

  192. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2019 5:31 pm

    I think Shane makes the point very effectively

    Particularly in a regional town, people will simply default to whoever has a branch.

    Seeing brokers as the representatve of financial institutions that aren’t as accessible is a different and interesting context

  193. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2019 5:31 pm

    I think Shane makes the point very effectively

    Particularly in a regional town, people will simply default to whoever has a branch.

    Seeing brokers as the representatve of financial institutions that aren’t as accessible is a different and interesting context

  194. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 6:55 pm

    Particularly in a regional town, people will simply default to whoever has a branch.

    LOL! There’s a reason for that! It used to be called SERVICE.

    Service the client* and the dollars will follow … Retail 101

    Not the fkn shareholder!

  195. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 7:01 pm

    I won’t correct that … ToM can’t … chuckle …

  196. February 11, 2019 7:38 pm

    “brokers are the scapegoats and the big 4 are the winners of this royal commission.”

    I agree.

  197. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2019 7:50 pm

    TB you say you know something about operating a business. Are you being sarcastic?

  198. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 11, 2019 8:25 pm

    Here is Kevin Rudd lying badly. Everybody knows Rudd/Conroy put NBNCo off-budget to run like a business and make a profit. So it cannot be funded like schools, hospitals. But I suspect NBNCo will have to be put into the budget, the debt written off and added to our national debt

    https://www.afr.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/letters-kevin-rudd-on-nbn-nab-crisis-and-franking-credit-debate-20190207-h1az7m

    >>>>>>>>>>>It was never envisaged that the NBN generate a commercial rate of return. That has never been the case with fundamental economic infrastructure. If it were, the railway and road networks would never have been built. Such ideological claptrap fails to understand the fundamental economic drivers that basic infrastructure provides for the rest of the economy.
    The bottom line is our proposal for an FTTP NBN would have been completed by 2018 had not the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government agreed, consistent with Rupert Murdoch’s position, to kill the network and instead substitute an inferior FTTN. <<<<<<<<<<<<<

  199. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 9:08 pm

    TB you say you know something about operating a business. Are you being sarcastic?

    Should I answer that?

    Or do I know that the ELECTION CAMPAIGN IS ON!

    You really are transparent, ToM.

    And I think your dopey mate has got its politics arse about face too … as usual … with its rationale re NBN … why build roads or railways … or have a defence force, or hospitals, or schools … why don’t we all employ security services and fuck the police …. ’cause they are nation BUILDING! FFS!

    Call me a fool (as you often do) but don’t treat me like one …

    I’ve done a lot of deletes over the last week …

  200. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 11, 2019 9:11 pm

    TB

    Labor put NBNCo off-budget so it cannot be funded like roads, hospitals. I guess they are borrowing most of the money from banks to get the NBN up and running plus some grants from the govt.

  201. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 9:12 pm

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/02/11/scott-morrison-submarine/

    THese pricks can’t design trains or desal plants and they get a $50 billion contract FFS?

    Jesus fucking wept!

  202. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 9:14 pm

    NEEEEEEEL … its your beloved LNP that are trying to build an NBN and fucking it up as usual … go back to fucking bed!

  203. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 11, 2019 9:16 pm

    TB

    AS usual u r wrong. NBNCo is not in the budget so the govt cannot fund it. That was done by Rudd/Conroy/ALP. That is why the statement by Rudd is a lie. he would know what he did in 2009. Labor set it up to make a profit then when finished were going to sell it

    Like all ALP supporters your facts are wrong. Most probably on purpose

  204. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 9:18 pm

    NOw we have a RC on Aged Care … that will be Labors fault too I suppose …

    Despite all the SloMo funding (pork barreling) restoring all the funding Abbott, TurnAbbott and MorrisAbbott ripped out of the system over the last six years!

    Fucking hypocrites all!

    may they all rot in Pergatory … Hell is too good for ’em!

  205. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 9:21 pm

    LNP set it up to make a profit then when finished were going to sell it …

    https://www.itnews.com.au/news/govt-sell-off-plans-could-cost-chance-to-fix-the-nbn-ex-cto-warns-480718

    Fuckwit!

  206. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 11, 2019 9:29 pm

    >>>>>>>>>LNP set it up to make a profit then when finished were going to sell it …<<<<<<

    Nope. NBNCo was put off-budget by LABOR in 2009 and the Coalition did not change that

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-25/nbn-writedown-inevitable-says-s-and-p/10034076

    "The cost to taxpayers may also increase if the NBN fails to meet its targets for a commercial return on the Federal Government's investment — a level of return that allowed both the previous Labor government and the Coalition to keep their NBN investments off the budget balance sheet."

    IT WAS ALWAYS LABORS PLAN TO SELL THE NBN WHEN FINISHED

  207. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2019 9:58 pm

    Should I answer that?

    Yes. There are hundreds of small towns, many long distances from a regional centre.

    Your notion that they set up there to provide a service, and success will follow, is just nonsense.

    Do you have any idea of the cost of operating a service?

    Your point certainly isn’t Retail 101. Maybe Year 9.

  208. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 11, 2019 10:06 pm

    Labor put NBNCo off- budget so it cannot be funded like normal govt programs. Fine lets put the NBN into the budget and fund it like other govt programs. But Labor always put it off- budget. This from 2011

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/budget-2011-turnbull-slams-off-book-nbn/

    >>>>>>>However, in a statement released last night as part of the Coalition’s budget response, Turnbull said the government had continued its “charade” in the budget papers of “keeping the entire cost of this needlessly expensive, excessively risky, anti-competitive project off the books”.
    The government, Turnbull said, assumed the NBN could be kept off-budget because it would generate a commercial return, making the NBN worth not less than the cost of its initial investment.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,

  209. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 10:15 pm

    Do you have any idea of the cost of operating a service?

    Go and live in the USA where your nonsense come from!

    Your point certainly isn’t Retail 101. Maybe Year 9.

    And childish insults don’t actually make your case … in fact I never went to year 9 … I left school in year 8 …

    You are locked into the primary, high, uni shit you don’t know how the REAL world clicks!

    Get out to some regional towns instead of guessing! They support LOCAL … not internet .

    And stop yer BS you of all people know my background … its in yer notebook!

    FFS make an argument – I’m disappointed that you go for the player not the ball … really not your style … government got ya worried …

    PS I know what I did in business … stick n stones don’t count here …

  210. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 10:26 pm

    Cash’s former media adviser, David De Garis, told the court on Monday he learned police were set to raid the union’s offices about midday on 24 October. Asked who told him about the upcoming raids, De Garis replied: “I respectfully decline to answer that question on the grounds it may incriminate me.”

    Quotes the USA Fifth Amendment? WTF?

  211. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2019 10:26 pm

    No TB, lately you’ve posted deliberate provocation. So don’t bother to get upset when people get provoked.

    You suggested that banks open in small towns. And my questionbabout your knowledge of the costs involved is entirely reasonable.

    I didn’t even ask you how muck revenue they would have to generate to cover costs.

    So in this context my view is that it makes sense that they eoukd use agents, representatives or brokers.

    I have no reason to disbelieve Shane’s comments about the transparency of how fees are paid.

  212. Lock`Her`Up`Teabag permalink
    February 11, 2019 10:29 pm

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating shane. The west-coast property slumped 4ish years ago and no recovery. The east-coast property has stagnated in the last 12ish months, and will eventually slump. We will all learn over the next few years; Just how many questionable loans have been written in boltsvillage and jonestown, and/or application/s numbers fudged ; once the wreckage kicks in during upcoming slump.

    l am NOT arguing against your correct complaints numbers ; nor am l arguing against royal-comm LITEs findings/ numbers. l AM just stating that royal-comm LITE only included 26ish-victims of ; the tens-of-thousands of victims so far unheard. (the short odd bet is jonestown and boltsvillage corruption will exist in your industry ; just as it exists with wireCo, opalTower, privatePower, grenfellCladding, fallingSign, and more)

  213. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 11, 2019 10:34 pm

    Richard Di Natale has been forced to apologise to Kevin Rudd, after the Greens leader called the former prime minister a “sociopath” on live television.

    The Greens are political grubs just like the other parties.

    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/richard-di-natale-apologises-to-kevin-rudd-over-q-and-a-sociopath-slur-20190211-p50wx7.html

  214. TB Queensland permalink
    February 11, 2019 10:52 pm

    No TB, lately you’ve posted deliberate provocation. ETC!

    FFS sake read the history of this wonderful country! And providing services to regional centres … the banks are pulling out of city suburbs in Brisbane too … FFS!

    Its all about profiteering … and FYI I despise “self serve checkouts” … more jobs down the tube for profit!

    I have no reason to disbelieve Shane’s comments about the transparency of how fees are paid.

    And if you ever comprehend my comments neither do I … I just hate trailing fees period!

    Take some time and actually READ my comments rather than skimming and assuming …

    And think about how a national economy actually works … hint its not about shares and profits to shareholders!

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    a “sociopath” we truly have reached the depths of US politics!

  215. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 11, 2019 11:55 pm

    Just listening to a mortgage broker talking about the RC on the radio. he says the recommendations will mean he will lose 2/3’s of him income and be forced out of business

  216. shaneinqld permalink
    February 12, 2019 7:02 am

    Neil

    2/3’s would be a minimum actually. For over 80% it will be a 100% loss and the Big 4 will gain all that money for their profit with 27,000 more people on the dole or bankrupt. With absolutely no benefit at all to the borrowers. Makes such wonderful sense doesn’t it.

    TB

    You talk about service, Aldi provides the worst service of all the supermarkets yet has increasing numbers of customers because they are cheap and so many of them are pensioners, who have to pack their own bags and lug them out to their car. The same pensioners who think service is the the No 1 these days. It is not it is price first, product second and service third.

  217. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2019 7:38 am

    That’s largely true Shane.

    People generally aren’t willing to pay for service, the huge growth of on line shopping is the easiest example.

    Retail is in decline because on line shopping doesn’t require bricks and mortar or many employees.

    There was a petrol station open in an affluent suburb a few years ago, it offered full service- checked oil & water, wiped windscreen and filled the tank.

    It didn’t last, people didn’t want it and decilned to pay the slightly higher price.

  218. shaneinqld permalink
    February 12, 2019 7:48 am

    ToM

    Correct and times have changed. I am a person that still puts service over price and also origin over price. For example I will always buy made in Oz if I can get it no matter the price.

    But I am in the very small minority, most are happy to buy shit from China to eat because it is cheaper, even though their own Chinese citizens prefer food from overseas if they can afford it due to quality and health issues.

    Amazingly people will drive many Km to get 3c a litre off petrol when it would cost them more in petrol and wear and tear to drive there and back.

  219. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2019 8:59 am

    LNP set it up to make a profit then when finished were going to sell it …

    Tb

    You called me a fuckwit by saying it was always Labors plan to sell the NBN. This from 2009

    https://www.arnnet.com.au/article/298376/government_spends_43_billion_establish_national_broadband_network/

    The Federal Government will establish a new public company to build the next-generation National Broadband Network (NBN) across Australia.
    In a press conference this morning, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said it would spend $43 billion to create a new wholesale-only fibre optic network across Australia. The government-majority owned National Broadband Network Corporation will work in partnership with the private sector over the next 7-8 years to build the network across regional and capital cities.
    The network will provide access of up to 100Mbps to end users and cover over 90 per cent of the nation.

    Prime Minister Rudd said it then planned to sell-off its stake in the operations within five years of it being established.

  220. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2019 10:51 am

    Real fake news, alright … comprehension level has dropped sharply … either that or nobody reads anyone else’s comments … probably the latter …

    1. I don’t/won’t use a mortgage broker in my lifetime … shane, I feel for your loss – if it happens …

    2. I don’t have much of my capital in shares nor do I pay taxes … ToM, I feel for your loss – if it happens …

    3. Neeeeeeeel – everybody wants to sell the NBN ’cause its such a heap of shit since Abbott, Turnbull and The Prime Preacher got their hands on it … they’re now running around my suburb trying fix the node outputs … I have NBN, it runs @ 94mbps … and I’m with Telstra – who I believe are considering an NBN buyout … either ALP or LNP win government … if it happens … personally NMFP …

    Enjoy your days … 🙂

  221. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2019 11:03 am

    TB

    Labor set NBNCo as a public non- financial corporation which is off-budget so it cannot be funded like health, education and then planned to sell it. Coalition have not changed that

    https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-co-will-stay-off-federal-budget-books-476637

    <<<<>>>>>

  222. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2019 11:05 am

    NBN Co’s prized status as a public non-financial corporation is not under review despite warnings it may never be profitable, ensuring it will remain off the federal budget.
    The network builder was granted public non-financial corporation (PNFC) status by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) in 2009.

    “As a result [NBN Co] is considered to act independently of government for budget accounting purposes,” the ABS told the Department of Finance at the time.
    “Funding may be provided to NBN Co as equity injections (in exchange for shares) which do not have a budget impact.
    “If NBN Co loses its PNFC status, any funding provided to NBN Co for building the NBN will have a negative budget impact.

  223. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 12, 2019 11:07 am

    The Greens are political grubs

    Absolutely correct. But in this case, for the first time in his miserable life, Di Natale was telling the truth: Rudd is a sociopath. His own party agreed. Kristina Keneally had him dead to rights as a “psychopathic narcissist”. Then, knowing the sickening depravity of the man, caucus decided he was the best man to lead the party. Shows how bad the rest of the ALP pollies are.

    Little Billy Two Knives is even worse – a blood-spattered blithering idiot.

  224. shaneinqld permalink
    February 12, 2019 12:26 pm

    Teabag

    Learning over the next few years how many loans were dodgily written is just not true. If a loan today is approved based on the applicants situation today, this exact day, and their circumstances change in 2 years time, are you saying that now because they can’t afford the loan, that the original loan was written incorrectly at the time ?

    If that is the type of lending you expect then the only person who could borrow would be a person who has enough cash not to need to borrow.

    Circumstances change all the time, job losses, economy changes, market forces, bad management. The list is endless and humans naturally try to blame someone else every time something goes wrong.

    During my time in the bank I witnessed clients try exactly that, to blame the bank for their own bad management. Court cases and wild accusations of not knowing what they were getting into.

    My clients complete and sign and date the living expenses spreadsheet I personally designed. They do this themselves and email it to me so there is no accusation that I completed it.

    A recession will bring out all the accusations under the sun and frankly most of them will be untrue and totally false but very hard to prove they are false. No I was never told, is one of the most used sentences. So I have clients sign to say they were told.

  225. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2019 3:27 pm

    Labor is ahead 55-45 … don’t panic Mr Morrison! Don’t panic!

  226. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2019 4:35 pm

    LNP set it up to make a profit then when finished were going to sell it …
    https://www.itnews.com.au/news/govt-sell-off-plans-could-cost-chance-to-fix-the-nbn-ex-cto-warns-480718
    Fuckwit!

    TB

    You really should apologise for that. I did my research before I made my comment. In 2009 when Rudd/Conroy created NBNCo they put it off-budget so it cannot be funded like health, education etc. So cannot be regarded as nation building either. It was then planned to be sold.

    There are hundreds of links showing Labor was going to sell the NBN when finished

  227. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2019 6:54 pm

    It’s The first day of parliament in 2019 has delivered high drama, with the government losing a substantive vote on the floor of the House for the first time since 1941. Follow all the latest news live.

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/politics-live-tuesday-february-12/news-story/bf2f21a1e55821c06ff73798eefe1686

  228. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2019 7:13 pm

    You really should apologise for that

    Why, Neeeeeel?

    You do realise that the link you included is talking about the present government (Clue: Its dated 09/01/2018…

    … and did you actually READ your link? (Comprehension is another issue I know)

    Here’s a clue to content …

    >>>>>>>>>>>>The LNP government should reconsider selling NBNCo? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Nice to see you doing your "research"

  229. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2019 7:30 pm

    I’d always understood that the government (ALP or Lib) would sell the NBN.

    Was it ever intended to remain in public ownership[ permanently

  230. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 12, 2019 7:47 pm

    TB

    That is your link not mine. YOU posted that 9/1/2018 link not me. YOU posted it
    on Feb 11 at 9.21PM when YOU called me a FUCKWIT

    This is MY link from 2009. Labor always planned to sell it and the Coalition has not changed that plan although some people say the govt should reconsider selling the NBN

    https://www.arnnet.com.au/article/298376/government_spends_43_billion_establish_national_broadband_network/

    >>>>Prime Minister Rudd said it then planned to sell-off its stake in the operations within five years of it being established. <<<<<<<<<<

  231. February 12, 2019 8:11 pm

    “it is price first, product second and service third.”

    I’m not so sure..

    I’m quite happy to fly business these days.

  232. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2019 8:28 pm

    Good point. Although Fifi has a remarkable ability to get business or even first class using points. It seems all this requires is spending huge amounts on the credit card and flying a lot.

    So it’s almost free!

    When I go to Hawaii or Bali, I find Jetstar “business class” quite acceptable too! Although the wine list leaves a little to be desired in comparison to real business class.

  233. Enemy`of`the`People`Teabag permalink
    February 12, 2019 8:51 pm

    In a rising property market shane, specifically the runaway rising property markets of jonestown and boltsvillage, the big-2; a borrower could borrow nearly 100% of an 800k home, and have a personal loan. They could hold the home for say 6-months, then sell for 900k-ish, and clear both home loan and personal loan, leaving them with a five figure profit in their pocket. As these loans are now finalized, cleared and closed; we will never, ever hear if banks, brokers, borrowers or anybody else `fudged` the numbers. How much income does a borrower need to borrow and successfully repay an 800k loan??? Don`t personalize shane. You are not in the big-2.

  234. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2019 9:25 pm

    What a loss Fairfax is …

    A typical example of the criticism from opponents to the policy was published recently by an outfit called SuperConcepts, which provides services to SMSFs. It argued Labor’s policy would “hit the lower end of retirees” – but its definition of a lower-end retiree is someone with $900,000 in an self-managed super fund at age 65.

    SuperConcepts analysis points out that the closing balance after 20 years with the refundable credit would be $953,480 compared with $825,519 without the franking credit. That might be true but so what? For an 85-year-old to still have more than $800,000 in super puts them firmly in the upper echelon of household wealth.

    Successive governments have made it quite clear that the purpose of superannuation and the reason there are tax breaks for it, is to help people fund their retirement, not to provide a nice inheritance to their offspring.

    https://www.smh.com.au/money/tax/real-victims-of-labor-s-dividend-tax-policy-are-not-
    average-joannes-20181122-p50ho7.html

    I love this … tells you so much …

    It seems all this requires is spending huge amounts on the credit card and flying a lot.

    Retirement is going to be such a drag!

  235. February 12, 2019 9:43 pm

    I find Jetstar “business class” quite acceptable too!

    Yes, it’s not bad.. It’s kind of like Business Class if it was run trainees on loan from somewhere in Queensland or Broadmeadows.

    I much prefer Singapore Airlines where they’re constantly offering more drinks from their selection of fine wines and address you by name “may I interest you in another glass of Jaraman Shiraz, Mister reb of Melbourne…”

    Why yes, don’t mind if I do…

  236. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2019 9:48 pm

    Sickening absolutely sickening!

    Even I don’t fly Jetstar! … Singapore (the couple of time we’ve flown ’em) seem a bit snooty … something I’d expect from BA but never did … very friendly and helpful (especially the bar in the bubble) … Qantas was my favourite but its got snooty too … must be a leak from the CEO permeated the crews … 🙂

  237. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2019 9:59 pm

    Yes, Singapore is very comfortable, with unobtrusive service. Fifi likes the first lounge in Singapore, and if the stopover is too brief I believe she has even rebooked a flight.

    She isn’t one to have her snout in the trough unless there is also room for the trotters.

  238. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2019 10:01 pm

    Even I don’t fly Jetstar! 

    They don’t serve Bowlers Run.

  239. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2019 10:03 pm

    Even I don’t fly Jetstar! 

    They don’t serve Bowlers Run fruity lexia?

  240. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 12, 2019 10:05 pm

    Even I don’t fly Jetstar! 

    Don’t they serve Bowlers Run fruity lexia?

  241. TB Queensland permalink
    February 12, 2019 10:34 pm

    Fruity fkn lexia? Are you really that old? It used to come in boxes …

    In confidence … these days I drink sauvignon blanc but it must have Marlborough on the label … Oyster Bay currently in the racks …

    BTW, ToM, have you always stuttered when you get pissed excited?

  242. Shane in QLD permalink
    February 13, 2019 7:48 am

    Teabag

    You can do nothing except personalise when it is your OWN business that is under attack with lies and inuendo and no facts or evidence whatsoever.

    Even your own comments are hearsay and what ifs, not any facts.

    The Funder determines credit lending criteria Not The Broker. The Funder Makes the Decision to Lend or Not. The Funder Determines what they require and the conditions for lending Not The Broker.

  243. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 13, 2019 8:28 am

    TB

    You made this comment on 11 Feb at 9.21PM

    https://theguttertrash.com/2019/02/04/the-royal-commission-unleashed/#comment-153196

    You called me a FUCKWIT because I said it was Labors plan to always sell the NBN. YOu tried to prove me wrong by giving a link dated 9/1/2018 saying the Libs were going to sell it. Well yes the Libs plan is to sell the NBN because that was LABORS plan when they started NBNCo in 2009

    PLease apologise for calling me a FUCKWIT. When Labor set up NBNCo it was Labors plan to sell it when the NBN was finished. Who would buy it is another question. I doubt anybody would buy it so the whole thing will have to be written off and the $50B of debt or whatever it cost to build will have to be added to our national debt

  244. February 13, 2019 9:03 am

    If we’re going to start demanding apologies around this place we’re going to be here for a very long time.

  245. February 13, 2019 9:04 am

    If anyone missed Peter Dutton’s “interview” on ABC 7:30 last night you might want to catch up on iview, it was a cracker.

  246. Tom R permalink
    February 13, 2019 9:21 am

    Cartoonists do it best

  247. shaneinqld permalink
    February 13, 2019 9:41 am

    A few facts instead of hearsay and opinions.

    https://www.brokernews.com.au/news/breaking-news/feeforservice-failed-in-netherlands-260270.aspx

  248. shaneinqld permalink
    February 13, 2019 9:49 am

    I urge you all to read the link I posted and especially the last few paragraphs which show that the RC failed to do simple and easy investigation of a model it recommended. Just proves and demonstrates the utter bias of the RC. Even I am amazed at this lack of diligence, especially given the RC criticism of anyone and everyone for so called not completing thorough investigations of a borrowers circumstances. A fucking year and they could not investigate the model they are recommending in their final report. Now I consider the RC incompetent beyond belief.

  249. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 13, 2019 12:11 pm

    If we’re going to start demanding apologies around this place we’re going to be here for a very long time.

    Be nice if TB just admitted he got it wrong. He called me a fuckwit because I said it was LABORS plan to sell the NBN. He then provided a link saying it was the Liberals plan. Well yes. It is the Liberals plan because it was Labors plan. Nothing has changed.

    But who would buy it? The NBN will eventually have to be put into the budget, the debt written off and added to our national debt. Furthermore there is a chance 5G will make the whole thing obsolete.

  250. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 13, 2019 4:09 pm

    Yes! TB has a lot to answer for!! A poem of apology would be nice!

  251. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 13, 2019 4:09 pm

    Yes! TB has a lot to answer for!! A poem of apology would be nice!

  252. February 13, 2019 4:33 pm

    “A poem of apology would be nice!”

    I wonder whatever happened to “Patricia WA” and her poems… (actually, I really don’t).

  253. Shut`it`Down`Teabag permalink
    February 13, 2019 4:37 pm

    It was the usual zombie self wounding they tend to do on my abc. They bleat like all fcuk about mythical my abc bias, then arse fcuk themselves on-air. So given his chance to explain why talkbull isn`t prime meddler to reportland viewers, dutto preferred to waffle crap and look like an unprepared fool. He was nearly as good as the odwyer critter with barrie on insiderp.

  254. February 13, 2019 4:37 pm

    “”A fucking year and they could not investigate the model they are recommending in their final report””

    What left me puzzled is that there was no mention of “vertical integration” which seemed to be at the very heart of the whole shoddy set up of banks selling their own products to consumers – which is where the whole “conflicted advice” vis a vis sales targets/commissions/incentives/bonuses and ripping off mum and dad investors stems from.

    It’s like they just put that to one side, and went “look over there – mortgage brokers”..

  255. Build`the`Wall`Teabag permalink
    February 13, 2019 5:00 pm

    For what its worth, l reckon royal-comm `lites` recommendations should have been ; We recommend a royal-comm into cba, a royal-comm into wbc, a royal-comm into nab, a royal-comm into anz, a royal-comm into amp, a royal-comm into apra, a royal-comm into asic ; for as long as they need ; with the powers to pursue everybody they deem necessary ; and far back as they deem necessary ; without restrictions.

  256. Enemy`of`the`People`Teabag permalink
    February 13, 2019 7:40 pm

    The ” Funder determines credit lending criteria ”

    I can`t argue the toss what goes on in bananaland shane. ln boltsvillage and jonestown ; homeloans are mandated to 20-years. Lenders are also mandated to not allow borrowers to exceed 1/3rd (ballpark) of their income to total loan/s repayments.

    So using these rules ; a borrower wants $725,000 for homeloan and has no other debt. The capital alone repayment is 3k per month. 3k=(725000/240) and the 240 a month repayments is 240=(20yearsX12) .. So as the repayment per month is 3k the borrower should have income of 9k per month. This was on a dot vic.gov.au or dot nsw.gov.au site years ago. The site also included the equations or formula for several mandated calculations regarding calculating interest, repayment size, and how interest is applied. l no longer have the link, but if you do please drop it. (ballpark numbers done in head)

  257. Tom R permalink
    February 13, 2019 7:52 pm

    It’s like they just put that to one side, and went “look over there – mortgage brokers”..

    It’s like that, because it IS that.

    I can understand Shane being so pissed about it. They tried to arrange the Industry funds to be the fall guy, but they were clean skins. So they went for the next best.

    It’s so blatant, and so predictable.

    RC2.0 is on it’s way.

  258. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2019 8:23 pm

    RC2.0 is on it’s way.

    I fucking hope not! They all seem to be a waste of money and time … except the one about unions of course … 😉

    Has anyone ever apologised to me on this dodgy blog?

    Anyway, I’m already sick of the fucking election campaign for the election that hasn’t been called yet and the wastrels in charge or the Taxpayer Funded Charity for Out of Work Liberal Politicians … do they really think people are so dumb?

    I suppose 45% of ’em are … The Goggle Box voters … and My Krap Rules … and Neeeeeel.

    I’ll read Shane’s link now …

  259. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2019 8:44 pm

    OK, best I can do on short notice …

    From Sydney a fuckwit was sent,
    Seeking apology he was bent,
    But his research was blotchy,
    So, appeals to demagogy,
    Were too easily dismissed …

    All of the readers – were pissed!

    ++++++++++++++++++

    (Carried out a covert mission into Kockroach Kuntry today – had used my visa twice … Coolangatta/Tweed Heads brought back a few memories!)

  260. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2019 8:52 pm

    Getting stickier for the LNP (I find it hard to call them “government”) another minister and staffer implicated in the Cash Conspiracy

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/13/second-government-ministers-office-drawn-into-awu-police-raid-controversy

    Contradictions and hypocrisy everywhere …

  261. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 13, 2019 9:07 pm

    Nice poem TB. Maybe you could sing it!

  262. February 13, 2019 9:18 pm

    “Has anyone ever apologised to me on this dodgy blog?”

    Oh take a number and get in line darling…

  263. February 13, 2019 9:21 pm

    From Sydney a fuckwit was sent,

    Who was this fuckwit?

    Neil from Sydney or Alan Joyce, or someonelese?

  264. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2019 9:29 pm

    Of course I can … what key!

  265. TB Queensland permalink
    February 13, 2019 9:32 pm

    “Oh take a number and get in line darling…” Whoo you are awful!

    Neil from Sydney or Alan Joyce, or someonelese?

    Does it matter? … is the last one an immigrant?

  266. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 13, 2019 10:16 pm

    “”””””””””Has anyone ever apologised to me on this dodgy blog?”””””””””””””””

    Ok just admit you were wrong. When labor set up NBNCo on that plane flight in 2009 it was always Labor policy to sell the NBN when it was finished.

  267. Shane in QLD permalink
    February 14, 2019 7:22 am

    reb

    Yes the Look Over There worked very well didn’t it.
    What amazed me is worst bank in front of the RC the CBA, was listened to in relation to advice on how to change the industry. Is there some type of family connection there?
    The amazing thing is that ASIC is now going to be 100% funded from the Industry it monitors, talk about conflict of interest.
    There is so much more control over brokers than there ever was when I was in the bank.
    There was far more vertigal integration, sales pressure, bonuses used underhandedly, gouging of customers, pressure for customers the bank did not want to move to another institution, etc etc in the bank than anything like that for brokers. And the one who started the toxic culture change in the industry is now at AMP.

    TomR

    Yes the Industry Funds are being used as scapegoats as well.

    Do I vote for a party that I do not like except for the policy of treading very gently with mortgage brokers to not destroy an industry ?

    Or do I vote for a party that I support in almost all areas except for the area that will destroy my own business ?

    Or do I vote One Nation because Pauline actually told the truth that Mortgage Brokers are the scapegoats of this RC.

  268. shaneinqld permalink
    February 14, 2019 7:59 am

    Teabag

    There used to be the 30% gross income rule, however that changed many many years ago.

    While that rule is now that there must be a surplus after all costs I will give you an example of one of my clients and how strict the lending criteria is and has been for a few years.

    Lets pick a loan of $500,000 at an LVR of 80% over 30 year term with a rate of 3.69%

    Customers are a couple with 2 children.
    Male applicant earns $86,000 gross per annum
    Female earns $68,000 gross per annum.
    They have an investment property worth $251,000 that earns $765 per week income.
    They have an investment loan for $190,000 that is P & I repayments and is at 5%.

    This is the actual income position per month
    Male Applicant Net $5,398
    Female Applicant Net $4,416
    Rental Income less 20% for costs $2,652
    TOTAL ACTUAL NET INCOME $12,466 PER MONTH

    This is the actual real position for expenses per month
    Loan Repayments at 3.69% $2,299 per month
    Living Expenses per month $2,560
    Investment Repayments at 5% $1,020
    TOTAL ACTUAL EXPENSES $5,879 PER MONTH

    ACTUAL FACTUAL SURPLUS $6,587.

    Now this is what is done under the system rules.

    System income per month
    Male Applicant $5,398
    Female Applicant $4,416
    Rental Income $1,004
    Total maximum accepted system income $10,818 so a loss of $1,648 of factual income

    system expenses per month
    Loan repayments at 7.25% $3,410
    Living Expenses $4,041
    Investment Repayments $1,373
    Total minimum accepted expenses $8,824 so an increase of $2,945 of factual expenses

    SYSTEM ACCEPTED SURPLUS $1,994

    So the overall change to actual is $4,593 per month or $55,116 per annum. This is the amount removed from the customers ability to borrow.

    That could support a loan of $1,000,000 at the actual rate of 3.69% or $670,000 at the assessment rate of 7.25%

    So as you can see the system itself is very harsh in ensuring customers can afford a loan into the future and if rates go up to the assessment rate of 7.25% I can tell you now, the country will be stuffed.

  269. February 14, 2019 8:38 am

    <with thanks to Late Riser on PB https://www.pollbludger.net/2019/02/13/essential-research-55-45-labor-4/comment-page-14/#comment-3073312 )

    Morrison is attempting to poison the well or set fire to Rome. Take your metaphorical pick.

    FDOTM sees it. See Panel 5
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/13/is-the-government-embattled-is-this-a-massive-victory-for-the-opposition-what-does-it-mean

    PM (frowning): “Quick give me the megaphone. Which way is Indonesia?”
    Person: “I think it’s that way Prime Minister”
    PM (with megaphone): “I said OUR BORDERS ARE MUCH WEAKER NOW…”

  270. Tom R permalink
    February 14, 2019 8:49 am

    Or do I vote for a party that I support in almost all areas except for the area that will destroy my own business ?

    Not sure if Labor have said anything concrete on what they are going to do? Or have they?

  271. shaneinqld permalink
    February 14, 2019 9:30 am

    Tom R

    You seem to know everything the ALP is doing, so you tell me.

    They have said they will implement all the recommendations.

  272. Tom R permalink
    February 14, 2019 10:21 am

    They have said they will implement all the recommendations.

    They said “in principle” support 😉

  273. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 14, 2019 11:16 am

    They said “in principle” support

    Impossible. They have no principles!

  274. February 14, 2019 12:11 pm

    I heard some Labor pollie being interviewed on Bagz’s ABC radio on the way home last night and it sounded like she was crab-walking away from the crack down on mortgage brokers instead saying the focus would be on “conflicted remuneration”…

  275. shaneinqld permalink
    February 14, 2019 12:23 pm

    The latest we have is that Coalition MPs are supporting the brokers. The ALP are not and remain silent. I can tell you there are so many like me, whose vote they will lose based on comments on our brokers sites. That may be the next campaign a political one rather than a save the broker one.Not only will brokers lose their jobs but thousands of positions in small and regional banks, conveyancers, valuers etc etc

  276. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2019 12:52 pm

    16,000 mortgage brokers’ votes …

  277. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2019 1:00 pm

    Shane, after reading your comments for quite a few years now I believe you certainly fall into this category … (my bold)

    It’s true that many brokers – it’s impossible to say how many – do an excellent job, providing an invaluable service to borrowers who would otherwise struggle to navigate the loan application process.

    But those who do do a good job do so out of the goodness of their hearts, not the strength of regulations compelling them or the incentive structures that actively encourage them to do the opposite.

    The rest of the article is compelling … especially some of the comments … (article 18 March 2018)

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/why-it-s-finally-time-to-ban-mortgage-broker-commissions-20180318-p4z4ws.html

  278. shaneinqld permalink
    February 14, 2019 1:25 pm

    TB

    That article was written last March 2018. Not 1 single actual mortgage broker was brought before the RC that I am aware of. In addition the figures advised by the Sedgwick review are fully contested regarding higher ratesm balances and arrears as the information is not transparent, just like Matt Cormyn information is not backed up with facts.He will not produce the evidence.

    There are so many lies in that article but hey believe what you want. The thing is you are at the end of your borrowing needs and those that are not or in the future will be the ones to suffer.

    I look forward to our conversation in 5 years time if we are both still here and the state of the financial market and the concentration at that time.

  279. TB Queensland permalink
    February 14, 2019 2:36 pm

    I look forward to our conversation in 5 years time

    Me too! 🙂

  280. February 14, 2019 5:00 pm

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  281. Lock`Her`Up`Teabag permalink
    February 14, 2019 6:02 pm

    What verification of your borrowers do you perform shane? Do you check they also don`t have 3-credit cards ; maxxed out at 1500 each card? Did you check for car loan and personal/ holiday loan? What l have noticed is `all` systems have been re-jigged to basically create huge `duty-of-care` GAPS. For example; being a bit nerdy ; l found it is extremely hard to find the the dot GOV.au page for the actual equations/ formulas for principle and interest ; the honeymoon and balloon repayments ; and the actual rules on how homeloan should be created. However ; the internet is awash in on-site `calculators` to aid and abet borrowers LYING to banks and others.

  282. Build`The`Wall`Teabag permalink
    February 14, 2019 6:49 pm

    Working example shane.

    most ” recent loans was taken out with Westpac four years ago through a mortgage broker.

    Despite already owing the bank close to $ 1 million, at the age of 67 she managed to secure another loan for $360,000 to buy yet another investment property through her self-managed super fund.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-12/banks-lending-practices-questioned/9534010

    Ms ” Schmidt started investing in property years ago as a way of earning a passive income.

    At one point she had 14 investment properties, most of them serviced by interest-only loans with half a dozen different lenders.”

    @as the shit hits the fan on the east-coast (particularly jonestown and boltsvillage) more of `this` will come to light ; Just as it did on the west coast.

    @l`ve been getting these type of links for the last 4-years.

  283. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 14, 2019 7:55 pm

    I think Shane provides informed and passionate opinion about a subject that he is clearly more familiar with than anyone else on this blog.

  284. Suck`It`Up`Teabag permalink
    February 14, 2019 9:09 pm

    After spending your life on your knees in front of the corporate zipper. Sucking when told to suck. Swallowing when told to swallow. You `think` it is punitive that you won`t receive a taxpayer funded handout on your hoarded wealth. You `think` you earned a taxpayer funded handout. Previously you have supported every `punitive` measure taken or suggested against workers, unemployed and underemployed. It was all okay while `punitive` measures were taken against everybody else, right? It would never happen to corporate fluffers, right? Are we learning yet? Of course not.

  285. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 14, 2019 9:32 pm

    It’s very entertaining when bitter losers scream at the keyboard and learn to spell

  286. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2019 9:09 am

    2/3rds of people who died after receiving a #robodebt were vulnerable!

    How? Why?

    The numbers are staggering

  287. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2019 10:45 am

    senator cash for comment is giving evidence. It’s not going well I think

  288. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2019 10:54 am

    It’s very entertaining when bitter losers scream at the keyboard and learn to spell

    Do you know what you sound like at the moment?

  289. Tom R permalink
    February 15, 2019 11:01 am

    Apparently cash’s memory is failing lol

  290. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 15, 2019 11:53 am

    After spending your life on your knees in front of the corporate zipper. Sucking when told to suck. Swallowing when told to swallow.”

    WTF? Who needs to be told to swallow!!!

    Decent people never need to be asked or told. Most of us are happy to slurp, swallow and beg for more.

  291. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2019 1:09 pm

    Has the McCash ever heard of perjury? Sheesh!

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/senator-michaelia-cash-claims-she-first-saw-union-raids-on-tv-news

    The question begs … who told Lee?

    And if Cash didn’t know … she is either lying or incompetent (or both) to be a minister for anything!

  292. February 15, 2019 1:59 pm

    You need speakers to appreciate this…

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  293. Shane in QLD permalink
    February 15, 2019 6:53 pm

    Teabag

    What mortgage broker appeared before the RC ?

    A loan through a SMSF is separate from any borrowings for an individual just as any super held is separate from any individuals assets.

    Interest only loans serve a purpose and if you have an interest only period of 5 years then you must be able to service the loan over 25 and not 30 years. If you have a period of 10 years then you must be able to service the loan over 20 years.

    Please tell me how I can personally check to make sure a person does not have 3 credit cards maxed out or any other liability for that matter other than to ask what liabilities a person has to their face?

    You can ask for a list of transactions on their bank account but what if they have other bank accounts they do not tell you about?

    FFS Please tell me how duty of care is being avoided?

    If you cannot work out how a principal and interest loan is calculated then I feel sorry for you.

    Honeymoon and balloon repayments are always advised in the contract and application.

    Balloon repayments are not featured in home loans but rather equipment finance loans to lower the repayments for a business especially in the start up phase to retain earnings to grow the business in the hope it will be far more profitable when the balloon becomes payable. In addition the ATO has rules relating to how much a balloon or residual must be to allow the whole repayment to be tax deductible under a lease. there are so many reasons for these type of payments.

    How on earth you think clients are aided and abetted to lie amazes me.

    You visit a client you complete their ID under AML legislation. You complete a Needs Analysis comprising 15 pages of questions in relation to everything about them. You ask for as much evidence as you can gather. You go away and verify what you can. You make an assessment and recommendation on the clients information provided.

    A client can lie to anyone about anything, how the hell you think I can prove any lie is beyond me.

  294. TB Queensland permalink
    February 15, 2019 7:27 pm

    Interest only loans serve a purpose and if you have an interest only period of 5 years then you must be able to service the loan over 25 and not 30 years. If you have a period of 10 years then you must be able to service the loan over 20 years.

    Apologies, Shane … but … this is personal too.

    We have a friend who turns 90 in couple of weeks (his wife is 78) … an “accountant” by trade – oddly enough … they have a mortgage on their home (a tiny low set with a little pool that saves him mowing the back yard (if he could) and a … wait for it – … a $3,000,000 interest free loan for a commercial property (a bloody big shed) (from a bank!)… when he was 76! They can’t sell it … they can’t get the pension! Only recently leased all of the shed (so they tell us) …

    And before you ask – (I would guess – knowing our friend) no broker involved … interest only loans do serve a purpose alright – for the banks …

    A client can lie to anyone about anything, how the hell you think I can prove any lie is beyond me.

    D’ja think he lied about his age … ?

  295. Shane in QLD permalink
    February 16, 2019 5:50 am

    TB

    No of course I don’t think he would have lied about his age. The Bank would have his ID which would show his age. It is ILLEGAL to discriminate for finance based on age. It is AGAINST THE LAW to discriminate for finance based on age. If a client is 85 and can prove servicing of the loan it is ILLEGAL to refuse the loans on the ground of age.

    Commercial lending is NOT governed by the NCCP legislation and is assessed completely differently to a loan for residential property.

    I also find that clients only tell friends half of a story. I have clients whose friends tell them they got finance for a certain amount only to then call me and ask and when I look into my clients situation they cannot afford to do what their friends have done. They ask me why their friend can get the loan and they can’t and I have to explain that every persons situation is different. Unless you are there at the actual interview you do not know what was said or discussed.

    You are even guessing that your neighbour did not use a broker. So unless you have all the facts from the interview and application you are only guessing about everything. Most people only like to tell friends and family part of the story as they tend to keep quiet about their true and full financial position at the time.

    But they are more than happy to blame someone else when something goes wrong.

  296. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2019 9:35 am

    You are even guessing that your neighbour did not use a broker

    He’s a close friend I’ve known since 1988 … and I have seen the paperwork … and I know he can’t service the loan … because they came to discuss their situation with me … I suggested he simply talk to the FS Ombudsman …

    All I’m pointing out is that there are some really incompetent people working in the industry – and you really don’t need to defend it … as I said … I doubt anyone would challenge your professionalism … and that certainly includes me …

  297. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2019 9:39 am

    Trickle down economics …

  298. Shane in QLD permalink
    February 16, 2019 9:45 am

    TB

    Your words not mine
    “And before you ask – (I would guess – knowing our friend) no broker involved …”

    So if no broker was involved why should we be scapegoats for the incompetence of the banks?

    You may not doubt my professionalism but you are certainly doubting my industries integrity with a loan that was nothing to do with a broker. That’s like me blaming every car sales person for a car company that sells a lemon product. I don’t blame the sales person for a toyota defect.

  299. shaneinqld permalink
    February 16, 2019 9:48 am

    Close friend or not have you ever thought he might be showing you the paperwork he chooses to show you. Many a time I have been shown paperwork only to find out there is far far more about the whole situation.

  300. shaneinqld permalink
    February 16, 2019 10:01 am

    Another true example of how things are not always what they seem even to family.

    Husband and wife. Interviewed and all information gathered and they can afford the loan based on information provided and evidenced

    2 days later husband rings to advise he has a credit card maxed out and in arrears that his wife does not know about.

    Now the loan will not service.

    Under the privacy act law I am not permitted to tell his wife about the credit card.

    I cannot proceed with the loan but I cannot tell the wife why, if the husband does not tell his wife but remains silent I am made to look incompetent for telling them one thing and then telling them another.

    My reputation mud and I cannot say anything or I can be sued.

    He chose to remain silent.

  301. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 16, 2019 11:20 am

    I would like to know why a quite mature person should not have the opportunity to own a home.

    It seems to me that there is a strong focus on age as a criteria for ability to service a loan. Why should a 70 year old be condemned to renting for the rest of their life?

    There is a clear focus in some comments on age rather than financial circumstances.

  302. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2019 12:47 pm

    … you are certainly doubting my industries integrity …

    I’ve doubted the banking industry since 1984 when the NAB dudded me with my second (and last mortgage) by switching part of the agreed mortgage to a personal loan (at a much higher interest rate) the day we signed the contract!

    And I (literally) walked out of the office of National Mutual when I discovered there “covert operations” as a salesman … I’d been there just three months (in the field for two) …

    I don’t blame the sales person for a toyota defect.

    You are unusual then … many owners blame the salesperson … but most blame the service advisor … (personal experience writ very large) …

    … have you ever thought he might be showing you the paperwork he chooses to show you …

    Oh, yes, and I’ve asked not to BS to me (as he was at the time – mainly through embarrassment) … then we could talk …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Why should a 70 year old be condemned to renting for the rest of their life?

    If you are referring to my comment above (its not directed at anyone particular)

    My 90 yo mate mortgaged his home, at 76, as collateral towards a $3,000,000 interest only loan …

    Two things spring to mind …

    … he was pretty dumb (especially for an accountant); and

    … the bank was ………………………….. morally corrupt (if not criminal in intent – ie a foreclosure, bankruptcy on the near horizon ) … very poor professional ethics … and that’s what we have come to expect …

    It seems to me that there is a strong focus on age as a criteria for ability to service a loan.

    You’re having a lend aren’t you … you are aware of life expectancy tables/graphs?

    That’s what life insurance and banks have sitting on desks everywhere …

    My mate has already exceeded the life expectancy for someone in his birth demographics (by 30 years!) and the bank gave him a massive* loan? That he cannot possibly service, so he’ll lose his home and the “shed” … at least he’ll be eligible for the pension and rental assistance! (If he survives that long)

    https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/3302.0.55.001Main%20Features22015-2017?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3302.0.55.001&issue=2015-2017&num=&view=

    *massive to most of us … but probably chicken feed to you … 🙂

  303. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 16, 2019 1:26 pm

    I see no reason to discriminate on the basis of age.

    The comment was a result of you causing me to think about the issue rather than being directed to you TB. But I see plenty of commentary in the media about banks lending to mature people/elderly

    Mature/elderly people may not wish to spend their lives in rental accommodation. Life expectancy means that plenty will inherit money when they’re mid 70s to 80s.

    They may factor that into their personal finances, but rhe banks can’t. Or they may have a plan to get some equity in real estate , and move inro snaller or retirement accommodation at some point.

  304. TB Queensland permalink
    February 16, 2019 4:50 pm

    I tend to agree with your “theory” but ageism is alive and well … and I don’t think I’d lend to someone who has an expected short life expectancy …

    We find it difficult to change credit cards providers because we’re retired and on a “virtual” fixed income … what banks tend to forget is that our income is tax free, so its net … and no-one asks for capital invested and how its invested … don’t have a job, can’t have a credit card … luckily our original provider has to (as I understand it) … we have a very small credit amount but supplement it with our own money anyway (so our account is actually in credit to us or is that in debit?) 🙂 😉

  305. Shane in QLD permalink
    February 17, 2019 6:25 am

    TB

    When I talk about my industry I am talking about mortgage brokers, not the banks, we are not the same.

    Credit Cards are decisioned by a computer programme not a person and so are many home loans, and they contain many algorithms when making a decision, for example you lived at your previous address for 11 years then moved to a new address and have lived there for 3 months, the algorithm goes against you because you have not been in your current address for 2 years or more. This was a system imported from the USA which I disagree with.

    Whether you personally would lend to someone who has a short term life expectancy is irrelevant, it is against the law !!!! and I would find a law suit against me and would have to go to court to explain why I did not process the application.

    So tell me what I would say to the court in those circumstances?

    Talking about short life expectancy, if someone has a terminal disease and was expected to die in 5 years you would deny them their own home because of that, even though the lender has security which would clear the loan in full in event of their death. For heavens sake people die or get diagnosed with a terminal illness daily and you think the bank should then sell them up because they wont be on the planet in 5 years time ?

    You are correct that your original provider must continue to provide your credit card, that is because a provider cannot simply withdraw a product once it has been granted and funded, unless you break the terms of the original agreement, for example you stop making payments. Otherwise farmers would be sold up as soon as a drought happens or someone would have their credit card cancelled as soon as they lose their job. This happens in the USA but not here under the NCCP.

    Banks do not forget that your income is tax free, however most benefits from the Government are deemed to be for subsistence living and not designed to also permit borrowings on top of living expenses. Very few are acceptable income for a loan anymore.

    If a 70 year old has a $1,000,000 home with no debt but needs renovations to their home to provide a quality of life, and to remain in their own home eg rails on walls, electric chairs, bathroom alterations, you would rather not lend them the money because of their age but rather force them into a nursing home. Even though the loan amount might be $30,000 and the funder has a $1,000,000 home to sell in event of death.

  306. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2019 10:15 am

    Whew!

    A 76 yo gets $3,000,000 interest only loan – mortgages an $1,000,000 (not really that much) … and that’s OK?

  307. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2019 10:17 am

    Correction

    mortgages an $1,000,000 (probably less than that) home … no other assets

  308. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2019 1:35 pm

    Surely this sends a deadly message to anti-vaxers – don’t be STUPID!

    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/africa/more-than-900-dead-in-madagascar-measles-epidemic-20190216-p50y96.html

  309. Shane in QLD permalink
    February 17, 2019 2:13 pm

    TB

    Assets are irrelevant, the ability to service the debt is the first hurdle for any application, for any product, for any amount. If a person has $10,000,000 in assets and no income then the answer is simply NO. If the person has income then a servicing exercise is completed to see if the new loan can be serviced along with all of their existing commitments. If it cannot be serviced then the answer is still NO. I have pointed out before how much extra money is taken out during the servicing exercise.

    If the debt can be serviced then the next step is what security, not assets, is offered to the lender and what it is worth from a licensed valuer. If the security is acceptable, the loan application can then proceed.

    There are many very wealthy old people that have borrowings. But only if the borrowing can be serviced.

    Under your rules Rupert Murdoch would not get a loan because he is too old. Try telling that to his financial advisers. Neither would Donald Trump. Either of them don’t morally deserve loans but that is a different argument.

    Assets simply show a persons overall wealth position and what they have done with their income over the years in comparison to their liability position at the time of application.

    You still haven’t advised me what to tell the court when I am dragged before them for refusing a loan application that services based on a persons age !!!

  310. TB Queensland permalink
    February 17, 2019 10:59 pm

    Under your rules Rupert Murdoch would not get a loan because he is too old.

    I don’t have any friggin’ rules … this bloke got $3,000,000 with no assets and no income but his $800,000 home …

  311. TB Queensland permalink
    February 18, 2019 7:26 pm

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/02/18/aec-report-finds-activist-group-getup-not-controlled-by-parties/

    Interesting considering the McCash case?

  312. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 18, 2019 7:39 pm

    https://www.theage.com.au/business/workplace/worker-allegedly-threatened-with-sack-after-asking-to-attend-funeral-20190218-p50yhc.html

    Interesting article for all those that say the ABCC only goes after unions

  313. National`Emergency`Teabag permalink
    February 18, 2019 10:45 pm

    On ethics, this February 11, 2019 2:04 pm stills stands shane. l reckon you`re taking a huge leap of faith believing the rest of your industry is `scumbagFree` tho. There is also little point in relying on royal-comm `lite` that your industry is `clean` when only a couple of dozen victims (of-10,000`s) were heard from. (for all we know ; the first 2000 victims were the the banks fault ; the next 6000 victims were brokers fault) But we just don`t know at this stage.

    I have worked in construction and manufacturing. l know damn well there is corruption of various types, usually portrayed by boardrooms and management. To me its self evident in `Results` there is/has been corruption, even tho l was not a fly on the wall. Some of those self evident `results` are; OpalTower (plus another half dozen in jonestown and `some` in boltsvillage) GenfellCladding (3500 in jonestown, 3500 in boltsvillage and 3000 more scattered around the nation) Outsauced (abdicated for profit) building inspectors. Guess where?

    In manufacturing the the greatest con was against shareholders. They casualized and fcuked over their workforce to `steal-back` the workers holiday pay ; resulting in many multiples of that `steal-back` as waste, 10K of steel sheet in one place, 7-trucks (14-pallets) of timber at another. Yep, both biz smoked long ago.

  314. Build`the`Wall`Teabag permalink
    February 19, 2019 7:56 am

    don`t ” be STUPID! ”

    You`re a bit late there. l remember a time ; not that long ago ; just a few short years ago ; when we had a loud, proud, and strident set of fully functioning inHouse teabags to continually occasionally remind us that it was good to gut govt and nation ; to outsauce everything because it is `cheaper` ; and leave everything to `free` market forces. Thank dog we took their advice. lt`s working out well (-:

    Government ” had done little to respond to China’s decision in January 2018 to stop accepting foreign waste ; known as the China sword policy ; which disrupted the export of more than 600,000 tonnes of Australian waste per year.”

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-18/melbourne-councils-send-recycling-to-landfill-after-plants-shut/10814412

    Four Melbourne councils have now confirmed they are sending their recyclable waste to landfill after the Environment Protection Authority (EPA) banned one of the state’s largest recycling companies from accepting waste at two of its facilities.

    The EPA on Friday banned SKM Recycling ; which receives about half of Victoria’s kerbside recycling across three sites ; from accepting material at its Coolaroo and Laverton North sites.

    The Coolaroo plant in Melbourne’s north was the site of a major blaze in 2017 which burned for 11 days, leading to the evacuation of more than 100 homes.

  315. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2019 9:25 am

    OK, I need to try and get this straight. Currently, the grubmint

    • Ministers will not answer questions from the AFP
    • Evidence from that investigation has been destroyed
    • A minister got a free holiday from a company run by a Liberal member who just got a contract
    • Paladin got a contract with no tender and with no capacity to do the job
    • Paladin has an employee with the last name Dutton
    • Barny and his mates have killed a river system
    • The Banking Royal commission is exposed as a toothless tiger, and nothing will change
    • We have no Energy policy, and prices continue to rise as the fiddle is played.
    • A policy of the grubmint is most probably driving people to suicide

    But the grubmint are celebrating because they think that by not allowing sick people medical treatment, they will win the next election

    Dorothy …………….. go the fuck home

  316. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 19, 2019 10:35 am

    Paladin? You mean Manildra wasn’t an aberration? And Stan Howard’s company? And the NSW branch isn’t a money-making machine for lobbyists like Photios and Campbell?

  317. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2019 10:52 am

    We could dive a long way splats, and on both sides of politics

    A fed ICAC is essential now imo

  318. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2019 10:55 am

    And when I say ‘both’ sides, I mean ALL sides.

  319. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 19, 2019 11:36 am

    ICAC is basically a good idea, Tom R, but not sure I trust it. Maybe if you and I ran the thing we could get something done!

  320. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2019 11:38 am

    I’d be interested, but I fear that my rates would be below the expectations of previous grubmint contracts.

    It’d be market, not “rate for mates” (which appear to the inverse of mates rates)

  321. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 19, 2019 11:51 am

    Screwing the taxpayer via expensive and unnecessary government contracts is an art form. And in many cases part of the career path of ambitious public servants who leave on Friday only to return on Monday as consultants at three times the remuneration.

    They are of a piece with other leeches and rent-seekers such as mortgage brokers and remuneration advisers. Everyone wants a nice sinecure. I could use one! But I don’t have any “mates” who can help.

  322. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2019 1:03 pm

    But I don’t have any “mates” who can help.

    you’n’me both

    #blokeswithoutmates 😦

  323. Walrus permalink
    February 19, 2019 1:30 pm

    “Screwing the taxpayer via expensive and unnecessary government contracts is an art form.”

    Mmmmmmm……………..no need for an artistic touch in my case. Just a few trips to Canberra overnight and a lot of long lunches and dinners with great splashes of expensive wine.

    Then voila !

    A few days later you’ll find an email in your inbox and an invite to a meeting LOL

    Where do you think I have been this last week or so ?

  324. Tom R permalink
    February 19, 2019 1:33 pm

    Where do you think I have been this last week or so ?

    MAFS?

  325. Make`America`Great`Again`Teabag permalink
    February 19, 2019 6:58 pm

    I must say, in recent times there has been much less team swooning around here, it seems that somebody has tumbled off the team cheering bumper car and realized zombie-lite is not much of a selling point and a clowntown icac is much needed.

  326. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2019 7:17 pm

    LOL! Two things here … thanks to Gough Whitlam (RIP) and his Labor Government we no longer have TV Licences … (or NS) … but I do wish Australians understood their legal entitlements like these Poms! (Watch the two vids after this one) …

    And the Aussie history …

    https://www.nfsa.gov.au/latest/radio-and-tv-licences

  327. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2019 7:19 pm

    somebody has tumbled off the team cheering bumper car

    Careful tbagz … you could be shat upon from a great height! 🙂

  328. Build`the`Fence`Teabag permalink
    February 19, 2019 7:37 pm

    Greenland’s ice sheet is not only melting, but it’s melting faster than ever because the area has become more sensitive to natural climate fluctuations, particularly an atmospheric cycle, a group of scientists reported today (Jan. 21) in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    The researchers found that the ice is vanishing four times faster than it was in 2003 ; and a good chunk of that acceleration is happening in southwest Greenland.

    This area was previously not considered at as much risk of melting because it doesn’t host large glaciers like the southeast and northwest regions do. While glaciers are smaller rivers of ice that creep across the landscape and can break apart and melt from warm ocean water, the actual gigantic ice sheet was thought to be more resistant to that kind of melt.

    But since the southwest part of the ice sheet is devoid of glaciers, the melting must be happening via another mechanism: A warmer atmosphere would melt the ice more inland, and the resulting water would run off into the ocean.

    “In terms of rate of transfer of ice to oceans, both mechanisms are important,” said lead author Michael Bevis, a geophysicist at The Ohio State University. But the fact that the ice is melting faster and faster, even inland, and running out as a river of water, “that’s a surprise,” he added.

    https://www.livescience.com/64546-greenland-ice-sheet-melting-faster.html

    @the science has always been too timid, l still reckon we will be measuring sea rise in feet by 2035, as greenland crumbles spasmodically, in fits and starts, releasing pockets of slush, or dirty great chunks of ice tumbling off it. @GlugGlugGlug

  329. Daryl`Leighs`Teabag permalink
    February 19, 2019 9:43 pm

    be ” shat upon from a great height! ” @look harder teebz ; we are all getting shat on from great heights ; some of us know this ; while others think it is chocolate and lick it off (-:

  330. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 19, 2019 9:54 pm

    >>>>>>LOL! Two things here … thanks to Gough Whitlam (RIP) <<<<<<<

    Gough was an economic disaster

  331. TB Queensland permalink
    February 19, 2019 10:00 pm

    DL teabagz — probably your most insightful comment EVA!

    2035 … I’ll be dead and crisply burnt … what pisses me off, is that my GRANDKIDS will be too! And it will be to late for the poor buggers to clean up OUR politicians’ greedy fkn mess!

    Surely the globe has a world saving fucking saviour, amongst all these dickhead religious Tokrah, Qoran, Bible thumping dickheads in corporate control of the planet!

    Just jokin’ …

    We really are doomed … it has nothing to do with religion, politics or business … but simply put … most human beings are greedy, one thick slice, short of a sandwich … whatever they do for a crust! (pun sadly intended)

  332. Lock`Her`Up`Teabag permalink
    February 20, 2019 1:16 am

    2035 ” I`ll be dead and crisply burnt ” @Nah thats a crap choice. Stick around. You will be missing out on the teabag panic gushing down legs as fast as the ocean rolls in. The angry mob. The fleeing for their lives. The show will be spectacular. Beyond that, l`m going into `aftermath` tourism where guests will enjoy scuba diving and spearfishing lobster in the metro and building and carpark basements. Gathering oysters grown on long ago drowned wireCo nodes of the information super highway. Non scuba guests will be taken on kayak fishing and photo tours between the mounds that were once opal tower type constructions and remaining buildings with cladding burnt to the waterline. The top seller of course will be the hunting zombie at night with crossbow for the full omega man experience.

  333. February 20, 2019 2:51 am

    “We really are doomed.”

    Pretty much, yes.

  334. Walrus permalink
    February 20, 2019 12:50 pm

    LOL………..this is a rather Inconvenient Truth

    “Queensland coal union reveal the leadership increasingly anxious about the state government’s plans to make a “just transition” away from coal-fired power.

    The minutes, which carry a passionate defence of coal generation and of the “proud men and women” who work across the state’s mining and power sectors, reveal the growing political faultlines released by the energy sector’s unnecessarily chaotic but gathering response to climate change.

    The coal union’s powerful Queensland branch insists that state would do better to invest in emissions management than to continue to steer away from coal generation.”

    https://www.afr.com/business/no-green-energy-jobs-for-us-says-coal-union-20190217-h1bd4v

  335. Splatterbottom permalink
    February 20, 2019 3:44 pm

    Trump announces global gay rights program.

    But haters gotz to hate:

  336. TB Queensland permalink
    February 20, 2019 6:14 pm

    Gay magazine says decriminalizing homosexuality is racist.

    Racist? WTF?

  337. TB Queensland permalink
    February 20, 2019 6:21 pm

    LOL………..this is a rather Inconvenient Truth

    LOL! Why would I subscribe to the Australian Financial Rip-off rag? (Yer, link)

    CFMEU is a bit like a seniors version of the Young Liberals … 🙂

    If you think they are in “your” right wing court enjoy! As long as you can … should make for interesting dinner small talk in Canberra … we’re all so impressed … LOL!

    BTW LOL has more impact with an exclamation mark LOL!

    Stick with the numbers … I’m sure you’re much better with compound interest … 😉

  338. TB Queensland permalink
    February 20, 2019 6:28 pm

    If anyone is interested IAII

    We’ve just watched the first season of Star Trek: Discovery … excellent production (series 2 is currently up to E05 …

    Set a decade before the original ST … highly recommended …

  339. TB Queensland permalink
    February 20, 2019 6:38 pm

    And these dicks couldn’t predict the fkn GFC?

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/let-the-bloodbath-begin-house-prices-in-sydney-and-melbourne-could-halve-in-worst-crash-since-1890s/news-story/5918ea13042d5f819cb13c77629f060a

    BTW if you only have a home … WGAF! … everyone has the same issue … ie equal … sell and buy in the same market … duh!

  340. Enemy`of`the`People`Teabag permalink
    February 20, 2019 7:37 pm

    passionate ” defence of coal generation ” @which is totally pointless @and your LOLs only prove your total ignorance of both coalburner builds and ignorance of where renew and battery tech is.

  341. February 20, 2019 9:22 pm

    What EofP Bags said.

  342. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 20, 2019 9:43 pm

    I believe coal is now our biggest export overtaking iron ore. The day the ALP bans coal exports is the day I will believe Labor takes climate change seriously

  343. Daryl`Leighs`Teabag permalink
    February 20, 2019 10:23 pm

    Who cares `what` you believe. It still rains chocolate in your part of town.

  344. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 8:07 am

    https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/coal-is-australia-s-most-valuable-export-in-2018-20181220-p50nd4.html

    Coal will replace iron ore as Australia’s most valuable export this financial year as supply concerns lead to a steep price rise for the core commodity.
    The Department of Industry, Innovation and Science’s latest Resources and Energy Quarterly report said thermal and coking coal export values would reach $67 billion in total in 2018-19, slightly higher than iron ore’s $61 billion in value.

  345. Know`Collusion`Teabag permalink
    February 21, 2019 8:52 am

    So fcuking what dummy? Total mining employs less than one% of our workforce. Of course everybody else (including-us) will sell less iron ore, china has been buying up iron mines (and-others) in asia, sthAmerica and africa for yonkers. And by the way dummy coke is used in foundrys.

  346. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 21, 2019 8:52 am

    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-21/young-labor-staffer-resigns-after-bullying-former-member/10831082

    Young Labor is nice…

    we can just bully the f*** out of her 

  347. Rusher`is`FakeNews`Teabag permalink
    February 21, 2019 9:21 am

    I saw this ; one-plus-one:-david-marr/10813444 ; in the last couple of days reb ; if you haven`t seen it ; l think you will enjoy. He covers several points of interest ; including his experience as a gay interacting with skyfairy club ; and skyfairy club covering up pedos and their influence over pollies.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/programs/one-plus-one/2019-02-14/one-plus-one:-david-marr/10813444

  348. February 21, 2019 9:27 am

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  349. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 9:49 am

    >>>>>>>>>>So fcuking what dummy? <<<<<<<<<>>>>>>And by the way dummy coke is used in foundrys.<<<<<

    ??? What is your point? Coke does not produce CO2? I would like to see evidence for that

  350. Enemy`of`the`People`Teabag permalink
    February 21, 2019 10:42 am

    What`s your point dummy, you don`t know because you don`t have one. You`re also too fcuking daft to understand blubbers point, or my reply, so you post nonsense.

    _____

    Elsewhere in its operations, Amazon is also using solar power ; for example, its fulfillment center in Tracy, California has 11,700 solar panels. Another major rooftop solar installation is at its Patterson fulfillment center. The company says it has a goal of installing solar power systems on 50 fulfillment facility rooftops worldwide by 2020.

    https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/amazon-carbon-reduction-mb0945/

  351. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 10:56 am

    I made my point. Coal is now our biggest export. The Day LABOR bans our biggest export is the day I will believe Labor believes in climate change

  352. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 11:00 am

    Coke does not produce CO2?

    So where is it mined?

  353. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 11:01 am

    Are you referring to coke that is burned or coke that is snorted?

  354. Build`the`Wall`Teabag permalink
    February 21, 2019 11:39 am

    it ” can carry anywhere from 550 to more than 800 passengers on two full decks ”

    http://theconversation.com/airbus-a380-from-high-tech-marvel-to-commercial-flop-112086

    @l always thought it would probably get smoked after a full capacity crash many years away, a bit like concorde, not like this, which is just accounting

  355. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 11:44 am

    Tb

    The person who does not speak English said this

    <<<>>>>

    What is his point?

  356. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 11:47 am

    Whoops he said this

    “And by the way dummy coke is used in foundrys.”

    What is his point?

  357. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 2:45 pm

    Coke does not produce CO2?

    So where is it mined?

    Are you referring to coke that is burned or coke that is snorted?

  358. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 2:49 pm

    I did not mention coke. The man who has trouble with English mentioned coke. he said this

    “And by the way dummy coke is used in foundrys.”

    What do u think he is trying to say?

  359. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 3:05 pm

    And so it begins …

    Westpac has been hit with the first class action against one of the big four since the banking royal commission’s final report earlier this month.

    The claim filed by law firm Maurice Blackburn in the Federal Court alleges Westpac breached responsible lending laws by providing unaffordable loans, leading to “substantial losses” for many customers.

    Lead plaintiff Michelle Tate told a media conference in Brisbane on Thursday she and her husband Ian were ruined after the bank lent them more than $1.8 million across five properties, despite the family having just one income.

    Ms Tate said Westpac trusted a loan broker who provided information about her family’s financial position, and did not independently verify the situation. She said her family would now lose all of their properties save for a block of land.

    Jail for directors and senior managers is the only answer … not a $1 million golden parachute … re: NAB CEO!

  360. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 3:14 pm

    Ahh so he did … you really meant …

    And by the way dummy coke is used in foundrys.

    Not … “And by the way dummy coke is used in foundrys.” or …

    >>>>>>>>>>So fcuking what dummy? <<<<<<<<>>>>>And by the way dummy coke is used in foundrys.<<<<<

    BTW it's foundries, tbagz … and to make

    And unfortunately ::

    The coke, which is mostly carbon, reacts with the blast air to produce carbon monoxide, which in turn reacts with the iron oxide to produce carbon dioxide and metallic iron.

    As a footnote – when I was a kid, I used to take my sledge to the local gas works and buy a big bag of coke for our fireplace … it was cheaper than coal and burnt really well … apart from having coal delivered my mates and I used to gather coal from the side of the railway tracks … ahh those were the (bad old) days!

  361. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 3:30 pm

    TB

    I still do not understand. Coke still produces CO2 which is bad according to the ALP

  362. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 21, 2019 7:19 pm

    What is his point?

    Neil, I think even you have more sense than trying to figure that out.

  363. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 7:33 pm

    Neil, I think even you have more sense than trying to figure that out.

    Go on —– tell ‘im … Tommy ….. go on …

    Unless you’re struggling with … coal (including coke) is BAD for the environment, ergo, all life on the planet!

  364. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 7:34 pm

    G0 on … ToM … tell ‘im! LOL! Can’t can ya! 🙂

  365. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 7:39 pm

    Getting back to NEEEEEEEEL’s original “coal is gut” comment:

    One of China’s biggest ports has banned imports of Australian coal and will cap overall coal imports for 2019 through its harbours at 12m tonnes, an official at Dalian Port Group has said.

    The indefinite ban on imports from Australia, which is China’s top coal supplier, comes as major ports elsewhere in China prolong clearing times for Australian coal to at least 40 days, Reuters has reported.
    China rejects Australian parliament cyber attack claims as ‘baseless’ and ‘irresponsible’
    Read more

    Coal is Australia’s biggest export earner and the Australian dollar tumbled more than 1% to as low as US70.86 on the news.

    The Australian trade minister, Simon Birmingham, has acknowledged the “unconfirmed and unsourced” reports and said the government had asked its ambassador in Beijing “to urgently clarify their veracity”.

    Not much good if ya can’t export it …

    A commercial (trade) war looms for Oz as a very close ally to Trump the US of A! Boy!

    And be aware that trade wars spark easily into REAL wars!

  366. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 8:03 pm

    >The e-scooters have proved a huge hit but at a cost. The Accident Compensation Authority (ACC) has recorded more than 1,200 injury claims for e-scooters since October last year, at a cost to the public of $566,405. The majority of the injuries – 656 – have been in Auckland.

    Why the PUBLIC?

    Has no-one studied duty of care, public liability, corporate liability? FFS these shitty “ideas” combines … uber is the worst of them .. are bleeding the PUBLIC dry …

    Why do/did taxi licence’s cost tens of thousands of dollars and uber nowt? That is fkn stupid … and stupid does as stupid is … ie politicians … where do the handouts go?

  367. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 8:29 pm

    “Unless you’re struggling with … coal (including coke) is BAD for the environment, ergo, all life on the planet!”

    I made the comment that until the ALP bans all coals exports I will never believe they take climate change seriously

    Then the guy who does not speak English said coke is used in foundarys. ???? What does that mean? All types of coal produce CO2

  368. Get`Ya`Facts`Correct`Teabag permalink
    February 21, 2019 8:35 pm

    All your comments on coal is pointless dummy. My original reply was to blubbers wetting himself over coal, which was also pointless, as his glorified black dirt investments won`t make a cracker off the 150 coalburners being built by china across the world. They are plopped beside existing local coal quarries. l never said anything about co2 and don`t care, as there is nothing Aust can do about it now, Opportunity Gone. l also don`t give a flying fcuk how much foundry coke OR generation coal is flogged off, or to where.

  369. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 8:41 pm

    What is your point?

  370. Enemy`of`the`People`Teabag permalink
    February 21, 2019 9:14 pm

    Teebz, l follow plod feeds and a particular semi regular round up tassie plod do is a thing called `dessing-for-dollars`. This is busting citizens that act as `designated-drivers` for cash (taxi). On the west coast they outlawed uber ; folks may be still using it blackmarket style ; but in an accident ; owners insurance is void ; passengers ride at own risk. By `allowing` scooters ; bikes ; uber ; or whatever to operate ; the city/state automatically accept certain liability too. Who do you think paid the tab for hauling the pushbikes out of rivers once the profit churners called it quits?

  371. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 21, 2019 10:37 pm

    Enemy of the people just said something. What did he say?

    My point is until the ALP bans coal exports I will never believe what they say about global warming

  372. Blinded`by`Coal`Dust`Teabag permalink
    February 21, 2019 10:56 pm

    Another one bites the dust. The rats seem to be leaving their titanic.

    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-21/julie-bishop-to-retire/10834480

    Former foreign minister Julie Bishop has announced she will retire from federal politics, in a surprise statement after Question Time.

  373. TB Queensland permalink
    February 21, 2019 11:03 pm

    By `allowing` scooters ; bikes ; uber ; or whatever to operate ; the city/state automatically accept certain liability too. Who do you think paid the tab for hauling the pushbikes out of rivers once the profit churners called it quits?

    Well aware, tbagz …. I want the elected twits to wake up!

  374. Tom R permalink
    February 22, 2019 6:26 am

    A commercial (trade) war looms for Oz

    And things were going so swimmingly

    Don’t they “owe us” or some such?

    btw, piss off asbestos queen, don’t let ya sexist mates slag ya on the way out. (or do, I care not)

    Now for the REAL news.

  375. Tom R permalink
    February 22, 2019 8:41 am

    Is it just me, or are the wheels falling of this ‘trickle down’ shit pretty rapidly

    Analysts warn that Australian retailers are going bust in record numbers. Seems the Australian Retailers Association has finally joined the dots and leapt on rising household costs and low wage growth as the culprit. This is a sizable shift from crying out for corporate tax cuts. Alan Austin reports.

    https://www.michaelwest.com.au/after-australias-worst-two-years-on-record-do-retailers-see-the-problem/

    I don’t want to say ‘recession’, but, we’d be pretty close.

    https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/australia-fallen-recession-200014477.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw

  376. Rusher`is`FakeNews`Teabag permalink
    February 22, 2019 9:57 am

    We are living in the time of convergence tc, all the problems of primate corruption is rapidly merging and coming to a head. The econobabble is probably the least of it. Water wars have already started, food trouble is coming. ln a few years there will be more plastic than fish in ocean/s. Global cooling already taking its course.

  377. Tom R permalink
    February 22, 2019 10:28 am

    #robodebt alone should bring down this mob

    The claims date back to 2010 and Centrelink demands the repayment of what it alleges to be overpayments caused by the understatement of income; but it knows very well that it is unable to prove these claims.

    Centrelink has destroyed its records and is entirely dependent on information obtained from the Australian Taxation Office. It divides the gross annual income obtained in this way by 26 to calculate what it terms an “apportioned actual income”.

    It then proceeds to claim the difference between the fortnightly income declared by the payee and the apportioned actual income as an understatement by the recipient which it then claims as a debt.

    https://www.perthnow.com.au/opinion/robodebts-sham-is-a-stain-on-centrelinks-reputation-ng-d183f0f3ee9d004c5798f1bb50db026a?utm_campaign=share-icons&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&tid=1550787007907

  378. TB Queensland permalink
    February 22, 2019 11:06 am

    Its like living in a poorly devised sc-fi TV series … the plot makes no sense and there are more antagonists than protagonists and the bad guys are the ones who are should be the good guys … and the vox populi is never silenced … weapons removed, they rise up anyway … and you don’t want to watch the next episode … but … but …

    Qvite vindy here at za moment!

  379. Karma`Earned`Teabag permalink
    February 22, 2019 11:27 am

    One of the anita cobby killers died of liver cancer today. l hope it was long and painful and the gulag guards and quacks were `miserly` with the painkillers.

  380. TB Queensland permalink
    February 22, 2019 12:27 pm

    Me too … only four to go … fucking arseholes … .22 x 5 would be cheaper … the Chinese get some things right …

  381. TB Queensland permalink
    February 22, 2019 12:28 pm

    Surprised that Peter Tork was 77 … RIP

  382. TB Queensland permalink
    February 22, 2019 12:34 pm

    The Pope is coming to get you!!!

    During a speech to pilgrims from southern Italy on Wednesday, Pope Francis said “defects” from the church had to be denounced so they could be corrected, and those who criticise “without love” were linked to the devil.

    “One cannot live a whole life of accusing, accusing, accusing, the church,” Pope Francis said.

    “Who is the accuser? Who in the Bible is called the Great Accuser? The devil.

    “Those who spend their lives accusing, accusing, accusing are not the devil’s children because the devil has none.

    “[They are] friends, cousins and relatives of the devil, and this is wrong.”

    What nasty people … organised religions are the worlds biggest problem … particularly those controlled by bitter old men!

  383. Cheer`Up`Sleepy`Jeans`Teabag permalink
    February 22, 2019 1:03 pm

    Thats two monkees down, davy died in florida a few years ago. l would never have recognised the old geezer shown on telly as a monkee.

    (fun fact ; one of the monkees mothers was the inventor of `liquid-paper`, she was a secretary/typist ; great to see a pleb get ahead) (which monkee? l forget)

  384. Tom R permalink
    February 22, 2019 1:47 pm

    Such a lovely bunch of blokes the CFMEU

    I don’t disagree he sounds like a dick

    But, one isn’t a bunch (just saying)

  385. Enemy`of`the`People`Teabag permalink
    February 22, 2019 1:55 pm

    Just watched my abc24 reporting out of kiwiland. Two observations that stick out like dogs balls ; 1.prime meddler jacinta answers all questions in full, straight up, without waffle. She shits all over anything we got. (including blib, albo, plib) 2.kiwi press pack ask direct and pertinent questions framed relevantly for viewers, therefore also shitting all over anything we got among our arse backward legacy outlets.

  386. TB Queensland permalink
    February 22, 2019 5:21 pm

    Mike Nesmith’s, Mum …

    You off to live in Kiwiland, Enema?

  387. TB Queensland permalink
    February 22, 2019 5:24 pm

    I don’t disagree he sounds like a dick

    Yep and the insignia isn’t responsible … the #MeToo movement will prove that to you …

    Deliberate choice of adjective, TR? (or accidental pun?) …

  388. TB Queensland permalink
    February 22, 2019 11:26 pm

    Justice Julie Dick

    Ironic …?

  389. Is`it`that`time`already`Teabag permalink
    February 23, 2019 11:31 am

    I just thought those couple of comparisons might be of interest. Just watch the shit flow as we get closer to the clowntown election. We will have to put up with the usual dung balls being rolled about by the zombie scarabs and taken seriously and unchallenged by our halfwit legacy outlets. From the other side the legacy outlets will be hypnotized by a britannia style `new` Labor cartload of crap promising new ideas, new direction, new leadership and new `unity` ; all being sold by the same old faces of the knifing era.

  390. TB Queensland permalink
    February 23, 2019 8:01 pm

    So the government is “building a better tax system for hard working Australians” …

    … does that mean apart from the, Elite Millionaires/Billionares, the rest of us are not hard working?

    Does that include our US Ambassador … leaning and entitling his obese, smoking (I hope he self immolates) self across the “free world” and beyond ’cause he doesn’t have to pay his fucking way?

    I am so fucking fed up with ROBBER BARON mentality shitheads representing/playing my country!

    Best comment I read this week – “This government is so concerned about our border that they leased Darwin Port for 99 years”

    And who did that – Andrew “I’m Not The Full Ten Bob” Robbs …

    https://www.google.com.au/search?source=hp&ei=kAtxXJ7CIcy3rQG87LWoAw&q=andrew+robbs&btnK=Google+Search&oq=andrew+robbs&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i10i30j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.1533.7182..22675…0.0..0.204.2298.0j12j1……0….1..gws-wiz…..0..35i39j0i131j0j0i10.-kITfXq94B0

    Dudded left right and centre!

  391. Neil of Sydney permalink
    February 23, 2019 9:03 pm

    <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>

    Me to. The ALP is the best example of robber barons ever. Low life scum who only exist to extract tax from hard working aussies

  392. TB Queensland permalink
    February 23, 2019 10:42 pm

    Why pay any tax at all?

  393. Just`the`numbers`Teabag permalink
    February 25, 2019 4:02 pm

    Warringah ; zali 57 ; rabbit 43 / also slomo 44 ; blib 35

  394. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 25, 2019 7:59 pm

    TB, given the Libs-
    * got rid of a popular leader
    * are threadbare with policies
    * are deeply divided
    … being as close as 47/53 seems a pretty ordinary result for the ALP

  395. TB Queensland permalink
    February 25, 2019 7:59 pm

    Wonder what $1,000,000 would buy in solar energy and battery storage?

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/emissions-reduction-fund-to-pay-for-fossil-fuel-plant-that-would-be-built-anyway#comment-126241567

  396. Watch`Curtin`Teabag permalink
    February 26, 2019 6:28 am

    Joobish`s seat of curtin has always been teabag, GOSSIP is joobish may have jumped before smoked, as curtin voters were ready to dump the teabags. Don`t know yet for who indy? or team?

    Warringah ; outside of catastrophic level of stupidity ; zali looks set to smoke mrRabbit ; since my soft first prediction ; phelps has posted zali can win for reasons l was thinking ; phelps also supporting zali ; my prediction has hardened and zali will romp home ; phelps too.

    Anybody seeing any strong indy`s beyond oakshot, curtin, phelps and zali? l reckon if we get six to eight more indy`s snagging seats off the duopoly the show is going to be hilarious.

  397. Here`comes`another`wireCo`Teabag permalink
    February 26, 2019 10:07 am

    For a standalone home, 50k will buy enough panels, multiple battery stacks, inverter, and industrial Non-Electronic Non-Computer switching/ detecting OFFgrid system, was last number from sparkieNerd.

    Slomo is on my abc24 waffling about mangling snowy and pledging 1.4-bill, my abc are having fun with the banner which says `previous quote is 3.8-bill to 4.5-bill` (-:

  398. TB Queensland permalink
    February 26, 2019 10:36 am

    $50k?! … 24 panels, 5Kw inverter, battery storage … plus labour … less than $20k …

    Battery is most expensive …

    The good news is most companies offer interst free loans … repayments usually less than current (pun intended) power bills … win/win – especially if you can sell some to the lazy folk …

    You need a new sparkie … methinks …

  399. TB Queensland permalink
    February 26, 2019 10:37 am

    Essential polls …

    ALP 52 … 48 LNP

  400. Not`the`same`system`Teabag permalink
    February 26, 2019 10:54 am

    Keyword offGrid ; multi battery ; the system you are talking about is still ongrid, loaded with electronic crap

    Cost is in batteryS and industrial NONelectronic controllers

  401. Not`the`same`system`Teabag permalink
    February 26, 2019 11:01 am

    READ

    Keyword offGrid ; multi battery ; the system you are talking about is still ongrid, loaded with electronic crap

    Cost is in batteryS and industrial NONelectronic controllers

  402. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    February 26, 2019 11:01 am

    52/48… with Morrison as PM!!

    I’m amazed that the Libs are going that well. In the circumstances, the ALP would have to be concerned with that result.

  403. Tom R permalink
    February 26, 2019 11:05 am

    In the circumstances, the ALP would have to be concerned with that result.

    I think more the voters should be. But I’m sure Bill appreciates your concern 😉

    Remember when abbott defended this monster

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/02/26/cardinal-george-pell-found-guilty/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=News%20Alert%20%E2%80%93%20George%20Pell

  404. TB Queensland permalink
    February 26, 2019 3:04 pm

    Cost is in batteryS and industrial NONelectronic controllers

    You show me yours ………

  405. TB Queensland permalink
    February 26, 2019 3:12 pm

    Not just The Mad Abbott … TR …

  406. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 1, 2019 7:39 am

    Should I feel sorry for this guy? Westpac gave him a $165K home loan at the age of 56 then he lost his job and then the home. He said Westpac should not have given him the loan at his age

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/banking/westpac-cleaned-me-out-builder-spends-six-years-in-the-bush-after-165000-mortgage-wipeout/news-story/cb22681e7b60802c37863010b0d5d7f5

  407. March 1, 2019 4:42 pm

    3 things everybody needs to know about #FrankingCredits

    1. If you’re not retired it won’t affect you

    2. If you don’t own shares, it won’t affect you.

    3. If you’re retired, own shares and pay no tax then you will be affected.

  408. Neil of Sydney permalink
    March 1, 2019 4:51 pm

    Number one is wrong. Some unemployed people may have Telstra shares. They will lose their franking credits under Labors policy.

    And what will labor do with the extra money? Well they will waste it on some crazy govt program

  409. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    March 1, 2019 4:55 pm

    I’m finding spending weeks at a time in the coast, surfing and relaxing, popping to Melb occasionally to tidy up a few things!! Retirement is great, but I’m not sure I take much comfort from reb’s 3 point summary!

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