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Prince Andrew hails TV interview as “Great Success”

November 18, 2019

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Universally regarded as a monumental car crash in “the rest of the world,” the Duke of York has told close confidantes that he feels completely vindicated as a result of his exclusive interview with Emily Maitlis on the BBC TV show ‘Newsnight.’

The Duke 59, is believed to be unaware of the worldwide outrage that erupted over his lack of sympathy for the victims of Jeffrey Epstein, his former friend and convicted sex offender who died in August awaiting trial for sex trafficking.

He was also ridiculed over his repeated denials of any sexual relationship with then 17-year-old Virginia Roberts, claiming that on the night she alleges she was sexually assaulted by the Duke after some sweaty dancing at the Tramp nightclub he was in fact busy having pizza with his family.

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“I don’t sweat” claims the Duke

Bizarrely, the Duke insisted Roberts’ claim must be false as, at that time, he had a unique medical condition that prevented him from perspiring.

“I have a unique medical condition that means I can’t sweat,” said the Duke. Unfortunately the same medical condition has the side effect of making his eyes look totally fkn mollied but only after dark, apparently.

He also insisted that a photo showing the Duke with his arms around the alleged teenage victim must be ‘doctored,’ and that no one could prove otherwise.

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The photo Prince Andrew claims is a fake.

“I am not one to, as it were, hug and public displays of affection are not something that I do,” he said.

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Prince Andrew: “I don’t know why I’ve collected that title because I never have really partied,” he said.

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Sadly, the royal’s pal said his aides do not “have the heart” to tell him how badly it has gone down.

“He’s told his friends and advisers he is delighted because he thought he acquitted himself well.”

“He seriously believes he’s pulled off a master triumph. It’s astonishing.”

“No one has the heart to tell him that he’s delusional — and this is the overall problem. He’s surrounded by people who tell him what he wants to hear.”

The Buckingham Palace grilling has sparked a furious backlash, with PR experts stunned he agreed to it.

David Cameron’s former spokesman Craig Oliver said:

“It will go down as one of the worst PR decisions ever — proof you really can make things a lot worse when you try to explain yourself.’’

 

 

418 Comments leave one →
  1. November 18, 2019 10:19 am

    I remember as a boy growing up in the UK he was referred to as “randy Andy” so none of this really comes as any surprise.

  2. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 18, 2019 10:42 am

    No sweating…that’s a good excuse!!

    Pity he’s not king because that would cause an immediate republic!

  3. November 18, 2019 11:35 am

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  4. Tom R permalink
    November 18, 2019 12:00 pm

    How dare they not allow racist pricks into the country!!

    And yet Labor are the ones who are called racist in our meeja because they want Australians to have first shot at jobs in ………Australia

    go figure

  5. November 18, 2019 12:37 pm

    “Hordes of available teenage girls. Are they staff? Is it a railway station? Who are these people?”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/17/prince-andrew-abuse-emily-maitlis-queen

  6. Tony permalink
    November 18, 2019 12:37 pm

    Criticise China and you will be punished – one way or another.

    Good to see comrade Keating defending them though.

    The current website of the China Development Bank lists Paul Keating as a member of their international advisory board.

    “The China Development Bank – a state-owned bank, so you’ve got a bank owned by a communist regime – he’s on the international advisory board and is saying this.

    https://www.3aw.com.au/the-china-conflict-paul-keating-has-you-need-to-be-aware-of/

  7. TB Queensland permalink
    November 18, 2019 12:43 pm

    Don’t ya just love, The Firm, and the, Carry On Senior Management Moments?

  8. TB Queensland permalink
    November 18, 2019 12:45 pm

    And don’t forget his, Mum, is the Head of the Church of England …

  9. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 18, 2019 1:15 pm

    China have an appalling human rights record. Should we ignore that?

  10. November 18, 2019 2:28 pm

    “China have an appalling human rights record.”

    So do we.

    Should we ignore that?

  11. November 18, 2019 2:52 pm

    Meanwhile, Dutton has locked up two gay Saudi journos who arrived with visas with intention of seeking asylum due to death threats in Saudi Arabia…but apparently Patterson and Hastie don’t know about these guys because they haven’t spoken out about their human rights.

    Funny that.

  12. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 18, 2019 3:17 pm

    So do we.

    Really? Do you seriously think the 2 countries are comparable?

  13. November 18, 2019 3:48 pm

    So you’re saying we should ignore our human rights abuses because we’re not as bad as China?

  14. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 18, 2019 3:55 pm

    I’m saying perhaps have a look at this and then decide whether we should keep our mouths shut because we’re not perfect.

    I find it concerning that the future only superpower has this record.

    https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/china/report-china/

  15. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 18, 2019 4:02 pm

    Certainly not perfect, and definitely nowhere near comparable to China.

    https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/australia/report-australia/

    I think it’s entirely reasonable that people speak about China’s human rights record and their disdain for international law.

    Just as it’s reasonable that people point out the inadequacy of the USA and other western countries.

    Or is it better to ignore China because we’re more comfortable talking about the USA?

  16. November 18, 2019 4:42 pm

    Just as it’s reasonable that people point out the inadequacy of the USA and other western countries.

    Who in the Morrison govt is pointing out the “inadequacies of the USA?”

  17. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 18, 2019 5:04 pm

    Many of the left are entirely comfortable relentlessly criticising the USA, but shy away from commenting on the appalling human rights record of China.

    I’m sure Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Phillipines etc wish China all the best in their observance of international law.

  18. Tom R permalink
    November 18, 2019 5:52 pm

    “So do we.

    Should we ignore that”

    Of course we should, and, while we’re at it, we’ll misrepresent what Keating said too

  19. November 18, 2019 5:58 pm

    “Many of the left are entirely comfortable relentlessly criticising the USA, but shy away from commenting on the appalling human rights record of China.”

    Oh ok. If you say so.

  20. TB Queensland permalink
    November 18, 2019 6:16 pm

    China have an appalling human rights record. Should we ignore that?

    LOL! LOOK! OVER THERE!

    Hilfknlarious!

    =================

    “Many “Australians” are entirely comfortable relentlessly criticising the USA” (FIFY) because they keep wasting Australian blood and treasure on dumb civil/religious/oil wars …

  21. November 18, 2019 6:43 pm

    Lefties. 😆

  22. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 18, 2019 9:17 pm

    I can’t see that anyone here has misrepresented Keating. He’s advocating a more pragmatic approach to China, and in that context I don’t think he mentioned their appalling human rights record.

    I’m entirely comfortable that some MPs voice their concerns about this, and I really don’t think it’s a media beat up (as Keating claims)

    I voted for Keating (and the ALP) but it was the way unions stymied his attempts at reform of the waterfront during his last term that persuaded me that unions and the ALP would be better off with an amicable divorce.

  23. November 18, 2019 9:30 pm

    I voted for Keating (and the ALP)

    JESUS MARY AND JOSEPH AND ALL THE SAINTS AND APOSTLES TOO…..!!

    How do you live with yourself.

  24. November 18, 2019 9:49 pm

    Odd how this was originally a post about HRH Prince Andrew, but then somewhere along the line (oh hang on, it was when YoM intervened) that the discussion was someone disrupted and then diverted into setting up some sort of pitch battle between ‘left and right’.

    If only I could put my finger on when that might’ve happened before…?

    Oh, that’s right. I remember now*……

    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.

    *Exceptions apply. Sometimes ToSY takes up the slack…

  25. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 18, 2019 9:57 pm

    Well if we are going to get back on topic, somebody is lying.

    Either Virginia Roberts is lying or Price Andrew is lying

  26. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 18, 2019 10:46 pm

    And there I was thinking that a comment at 11.35 was moving off the subject. But that’s only a fact.

  27. Tom R permalink
    November 18, 2019 11:00 pm

    I see Prince Bandrew Olt is tempting the courts again (just to get this thread back on track reb)

  28. Tony permalink
    November 18, 2019 11:18 pm

    “ *Exceptions apply. Sometimes ToSY takes up the slack…”

    I’m happy to stay on the thread topic if that’s the (new) rule. I assume it’s going to be strictly enforced and applied equally to all😂. An open thread might be useful for more general comments.

  29. November 19, 2019 10:27 am

    Why is it that we never hear from ‘the left’ when it comes to sympathy for ‘our’ farmers.

    All we ever hear from them is poor starving cattle this, and poor dog food horses that.

    IT’S A FKN DISGRACE!

  30. November 19, 2019 10:29 am

    Veterans* too.

    The ‘left’ hate war veterans.

    (*not to be confused with veterinarians. The ‘left’ like them coz they look after animals)

  31. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 19, 2019 11:09 am

    Yes.

    I’ve also experienced over zealous air hosties from time to time.

    I think they’re also racist against white middle aged men.

    https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/rapper-william-asked-to-back-down-over-racism-claim-on-qantas-flight/news-story/714b53b04d3f95f845f034e34f7360ac

  32. November 19, 2019 11:13 am

    “I’ve also experienced over zealous air hosties from time to time.”

    #Metoo

    More often than not on either Qantas or British Airways. Which is why I don’t bother with either airline anymore (unless I’m desperate).

    Have you seen the state of the so-called “Qantas Business Class lounge” at Melbourne airport?

    IT’S A FKN DISGRACE!

  33. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 19, 2019 12:11 pm

    Yes. Business class? What about the wine they serve, I expect better that a $50 quaffer!

  34. Tom R permalink
    November 19, 2019 2:53 pm

    Things are going well. our pierless leaders want 60 year olds to retool (even though 50 year olds can’t get another job)

    And, we can think back to the GFC as ‘good times’ (you, debt and deficit disaster time 😉 )

    National household living standards in 2018-19 were actually below what they were in 2011-12, and this was broadly the case across all states. Only South Australia and Tasmania had higher levels of household disposable income per capita in 2018-19 than they did in 2011-12:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2019/nov/19/australia-now-has-a-one-speed-economy-and-that-speed-is-slow?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

  35. Tom R permalink
    November 19, 2019 4:22 pm

    No Shit sherlock

    Given the fact China spent seven years fighting Japanese fascism in the second world war “the comparison with Nazi Germany was always going to be taken badly”, he said.

    [facepalm]

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/18/china-and-barred-australian-mps-need-to-dial-back-the-rhetoric-tour-organiser-says

  36. TB Queensland permalink
    November 19, 2019 8:28 pm

    I voted for Keating (and the ALP) but it was the way unions stymied his attempts at reform of the waterfront during his last term that persuaded me that unions and the ALP would be better off with an amicable divorce.

    So you support ….

    Armed security guards with military training overseas … taking on workers striking for decent pay and conditions …

    Please explain this … that persuaded me that unions and the ALP would be better off with an amicable divorce

    And why?

  37. TB Queensland permalink
    November 19, 2019 8:36 pm

    Oh, that’s right. I remember now*……

    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.
    Whenever Yom intervenes.

    *Exceptions apply. Sometimes ToSY takes up the slack…

    And it continues …. because of the battle for RWNJ to stay in power, do nothing for ordinary Aussies and keep the rich – well – rich … dupes are dupes … unfortunately some of us who began life at the bottom became a bit more educated and knowledgeable than our grandparents and parents and challenge the “expected” Medieval castle and village mentality that still exist! (And I thank the genes I was given by my ancestors!)

  38. TB Queensland permalink
    November 19, 2019 8:42 pm

    An open thread might be useful for more general comments.

    Off you go then … let us know when you open your site.

    as my mate’s seven year old says, you get what you get and you don’t get upset!

  39. TB Queensland permalink
    November 19, 2019 8:52 pm

    Have you seen the state of the so-called “Qantas Business Class lounge” at Melbourne airport?

    Unlike Brisbane of course.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And, we can think back to the GFC as ‘good times’

    And I suspect John McPhilbin, like me, is keeping his current thoughts, low profile, considering the flack we got over our concerns with regard to our predictions about what became known as the GFC – including some people here … this time I look after MINE!

  40. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 19, 2019 9:53 pm

    I think you have selective memory TB.
    You were adamant that Australia was heading for a severe recession or depression, plunging property values, and share priced and mass unemployment.

    I always said we can expect a downturn, but Australia would be spared the worst of it because our public debt was significantly lower than other countries.

    You and John disagreed.

    So rather than reflect that you were right, I’ll just say that you were way off the mark.

  41. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 19, 2019 10:00 pm

    I always said we can expect a downturn, but Australia would be spared the worst of it because our public debt was significantly lower than other countries.

    Govt debt was actually MINUS $40B in 2007 ie less than zero. It is now at $370B, a increase of approx. $400B since 2007 with nothing to show for it.

    What do we do when the next GFC hits? Spend more money?

  42. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 19, 2019 10:02 pm

    I also argued that our strong trade with China would provide a buffer to the downturn in other developed countries. But you disagreed with that too.

    So I’m sure you’ll excuse me if I don’t agree with your self congratulations.

  43. Tony permalink
    November 19, 2019 10:07 pm

    Off you go then … let us know when you open your site.

    Haw haw. Fuck off TB. I wasn’t the one selectively complaining about off-topic comments.

  44. November 19, 2019 10:15 pm

    “I always said we can expect a downturn, but Australia would be spared the worst of it because our public debt was significantly lower than other countries.”

    Rather than reflect that you are right, I’ll just say that you are off the mark.

    In case you hadn’t noticed, the Australian economy is on life support. Household debt is amongst the highest in the world. Wages growth is non-existent. Business and consumer confidence is in the doldrums. The retail sector is technically in recession. New car sales (widely viewed as the barometer of a healthy economy) are at ten year lows. Housing prices remain amongst the highest in the developed world and out of reach for many ordinary working people.

    Households are leveraged to the hilt and the government now wants people to work until they’re 70. Call me a cynic but all this move is designed to do is butter people up to the idea that the LNP intend to raise the pension age to 70. Quelle surprise.

    The only thing that’s keeping the economy spluttering along is the real estate ponzi scheme, immigration and our iron ore exports. Everything else is pretty much fucked.

    The glass half full mob are hoping that the mild resurgence in property prices is going to signal a sustained recovery beyond next year.

    If that doesn’t eventuate, brace yourself for a continued downturn in the construction industry, a further deterioration in retail sales, and rising unemployment.

    And then the shit’s really going to hit the fan.

    So I wouldn’t quite go self-congratulating your prescient wisdom just yet.

  45. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 19, 2019 10:24 pm

    I was referring to TBs prediction of an Australian recession/depression – 12 years ago. It didn’t happen, for the very reasons I’ve just outlined.

    I also don’t think the current very sluggish economic conditions are likely to change in the near future, regardless if who is in government.

  46. TB Queensland permalink
    November 19, 2019 11:27 pm

    I was referring to TBs prediction of an Australian recession/depression – 12 years ago. It didn’t happen, for the very reasons I’ve just outlined.

    So what exactly was the GFC?

    Did you die in 2008? And I can assure you John and I did not disagree … would you like to contact him and confirm that? Guess what!

    I also don’t think the current very sluggish economic conditions are likely to change in the near future, regardless if who is in government.

    You got that right … guess what … would you like to contact JMc and see what he/we think?

  47. November 20, 2019 8:44 am

    So what exactly was the GFC?

    Oh, come along TB. Everybody knows that was just a “northern hemisphere event”… 😆

  48. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 8:44 am

    And why?

    Cos hazards gonna be hazards

    So what exactly was the GFC?

    DENIER! (it was a northern hemisphere only event (just that a lot of southern hemisphere countries moved north for a while, while one actually had a Government prepared to do the right thing))

    So I wouldn’t quite go self-congratulating your prescient wisdom just yet.

    Stop panicking. our benephelant leaders have said the ‘stimulus’ word’, so all is good (not sure how leaking dribs of what was pulled out over the past decade is ‘stimulus’, but there ya have it)

  49. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 8:46 am

    pipped me reb 😉

  50. November 20, 2019 9:15 am

    “our benephelant leaders have said the ‘stimulus’ word’, so all is good”

    But, but, but, just a month or so ago Fraudenberg was saying the “fundamentals of the Australian economy are sound”.

    Was he lying then or now?

  51. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 20, 2019 9:39 am

    It’s a simple point TB & John McP predicted a recession/depression here, with mass unemployment, falling share prices, plunging property values.

    I said we would be spared the worst of it because of out strong trade with China ( which would continue to grow) and the lack of government debt.

    TB disagreed and was wrong about how the international downturn would effect Australia.

    It seems reasonable to point this out, when I was right!

  52. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 9:43 am

    Was he lying then or now?

    I mean, both is an option, right?

    when I was right!
    😆
    Thanks hazard, I needed that 😉

    Without Labor’s stimulus, we would have been toast. *Assuming your claim is correct, Perhaps they were operating under the impression that the libs would be in power when this happened? 😉

  53. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 9:56 am

    Josh Frydenberg will use a speech on Tuesday evening to say he wants higher employment rates for over-65s to help grow an economy burdened with debt.

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/treasurer-wants-over-65s-to-work-longer/ar-BBWXd3p?ocid=st

    Is there a polite way to say “FUCK YOU!”

    oh, and

    Prince Andrew

  54. November 20, 2019 10:02 am

    “he wants higher employment rates for over-65s to help grow an economy burdened with debt”.

    Heaven forbid they’d look at getting large multi-nationals to pay their fair share of tax.

  55. November 20, 2019 10:03 am

    It seems reasonable to point this out, when I was right!

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day, as they say..

  56. Walrus permalink
    November 20, 2019 10:10 am

    “And I suspect John McPhilbin, like me, is keeping his current thoughts, low profile, considering the flack we got over our concerns with regard to our predictions about what became known as the GFC ”

    Yeah and that was because absolutely none of your stupid predictions came through. You were out there with that nutty economist Steve Keen and his predictions of 40% property price crash, mass unemployment, plagues of locusts, crop failures, fires from the heavens.

    You think we forgot about your crazy predictions ?

    Your memory might be failing but plenty on here have not forgotten.

    Thank Dog for China

  57. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 10:13 am

    Thank Dog for China

    And the Labor party STIMULUS (it’s not a dirty word ……….. anymore 😉 )

  58. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 10:15 am

    Thank Dog for the Labor party

    The Federal Government is immediately halting a key part of the controversial robodebt scheme, and will freeze some existing debts in what appears to be a major backdown in the operation of the scheme.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-19/robodebt-scheme-human-services-department-halts-existing-debts/11717188

    They kept telling us it was fine, Until the lawyers come in, then ………….

  59. TB Queensland permalink
    November 20, 2019 10:23 am

    Unpaid wages bill hits $1.4bn annually – The Australian

    Imagine $1.4bn actually being spent in the economy …

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    As for this rubbish …

    You were out there with that nutty economist Steve Keen and his predictions of 40% property price crash, mass unemployment, plagues of locusts, crop failures, fires from the heavens.

    I actually quoted Nouriel Roubini at the time (and still do!) Plagues of locusts etc … as I’d quote the bible back at ya! LOL!

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    They kept telling us it was fine, Until the lawyers come in, then ………….

    They eventually catch up, TR!

  60. Walrus permalink
    November 20, 2019 10:41 am

    “Last year’s worst-case scenarios came true. The global financial pandemic that I and others had warned about is now upon us. But we are still only in the early stages of this crisis. My predictions for the coming year, unfortunately, are even more dire: The bubbles, and there were many, have only begun to burst – Nouriel Roubini in 2009

    “The DJIA hit a market low of 6,469.95 on March 6, 2009, having lost over 54% of its value since the October 9, 2007 high The bear market reversed course on March 9, 2009, as the DJIA rebounded more than 20% from its low to 7924.56 after a mere three weeks of gains.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bear_market_of_2007%E2%80%932009

    Lets repeat that bit above “But we are still only in the early stages of this crisis.”

    Keep quoting Roubini TB at your peril

  61. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 20, 2019 11:32 am

    And by the way, the ALP stimulus was predicated on an unemployment rate of 10.5%, it was intended to take 2% off that.

    It was never going to reach anywhere near 10.5% or even 8.5% and if the projections had been more accurate, would they have created such a huge debt?

  62. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 11:37 am

    See how effective the stimulus was. 😉

  63. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 20, 2019 12:48 pm

    TomR

    It was Labor who automated the system and introduced Robodebt in 2011

    https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20111114210628/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/65939/20111115-0804/www.mhs.gov.au/media/media_releases/2011/06/29_june_2011_-_new_data_matching_to_recover_millions_in_welfare_dollars.html

    Media Release:
    New data matching to recover millions in welfare dollars
    29 June 2011

    A new data matching initiative between Centrelink and the Australian Taxation Office is expected to claw back millions of dollars from welfare recipients who have debts with the Australian Government.
    Minister for Human Services Tanya Plibersek and Assistant Treasurer Bill Shorten today said the new initiative will enhance Centrelink’s debt recovery ability and is expected to recover more than $71 million over four years.
    Beginning on July 1 this year, Centrelink and the ATO will automatically match data on a daily basis as a way of cross-checking former welfare recipients who have a debt with the Commonwealth

  64. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 1:06 pm

    nil

    fuck off idiot. Come back when you grow a brain cell

  65. November 20, 2019 1:35 pm

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  66. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 1:42 pm

  67. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 20, 2019 1:52 pm

    TomR

    Labor introduced Robodebt in 2011. My brain cells are working. Yours are not.

  68. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 20, 2019 2:18 pm

    TomR

    Also that was a Labor Party media release I posted. Robodebt was started by the ALP in 2011

  69. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 2:22 pm

    jeebus nil, we’ve been over this

    The libs removed the manual oversight and turned the onous on hte recipient

    Labor knew tit had issues, whish is why they didn’t ‘robo’ their technology.

    The robodebt is all the libs

    don’t fucking bring this shit again idiot

  70. November 20, 2019 2:31 pm

    Australian household debt has reached a record high level* as low wage growth fails to keep up with a resurgent property market amid signs the Reserve Bank will start next year with another interest rate cut to boost the economy.

    Household debt was 120 per cent of income at the turn of the century and reached 178 per cent in the wake of the global financial crisis when it stabilised as Australians sought to manage their finances. But since then it has started growing.

    It has now reached 202 per cent with the most indebted households in Victoria, where the debt-to-income ratio has reached 212 per cent. It is followed by NSW households at 191 per cent while Queensland households are at 183 per cent.

    *Also known as “unprecedented”.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/record-household-debt-as-rba-knuckles-down-to-further-rate-cuts-20191119-p53bzj.html

  71. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 2:43 pm

    *Also known as “unprecedented”.

    lol

  72. Tom R permalink
    November 20, 2019 3:44 pm

    First stimulus, now batteries. The libs are doing a 180?

  73. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 20, 2019 4:16 pm

    TomR

    Labor replaced annual review by humans and replaced them with computers. But had humans at the end to check the computer results. Coalition removed human checking of the computer results

    Politicians are not that smart. I suspect most follow Departmental advice. I suspect that removing human checking at the end was the next step to try and save money.

    But Robodebt was started by labor in 2011

  74. November 20, 2019 4:58 pm

    Disclaimer: Note ‘not unprecedented’ as in historical terms, but could be considered ‘unprecedented’ in terms of the last ten years (perhaps)…

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  75. November 20, 2019 5:01 pm

    I’m thinking we could have a regular Gutter Trash Finance Report seeing as we have so many resident experts (I use that term loosely).

    And now, news from the finance desk.

    “Today the ASX shat itself”

    https://www.asx.com.au/

  76. Tony permalink
    November 20, 2019 5:43 pm

    [This could be off topic – I’m just not sure. It’s all so confusing.]

    The only thing unprecedented is the current rush to call every weather/climate/fire event unprecedented. That way activists can blame them on catastrophic global warming climate change emergency. If the same thing has already occurred decades ago then the current event(s) can’t logically be blamed on climate change. (Probably won’t stop them though.)

  77. TB Queensland permalink
    November 20, 2019 5:48 pm

    And now, news from the finance desk.

    “Today the ASX shat itself”

    Even the ASX catches up eventually, reb … let’s hope it does the opposite for the punters here out there …

    I’m with Marcus on this one …

  78. TB Queensland permalink
    November 20, 2019 6:01 pm

    If the same thing has already occurred decades ago then the current event(s) can’t logically be blamed on climate change. (Probably won’t stop them though.)

    Not being an activist I would interpret the number of world wide unprecedented events in a very narrow time period to be … wait for it … here it comes … UNprecedented.

    The difficulty of fighting so many fires over such a large area for such a long time and with such a lot of damage is … well unprecedented … as are the flood in UK, Europe and Asia … then there are the earthquake

    Now if we add into the mix the number of political protests around the world … not necessarily unprecedented in themselves but combined?

    Then we have the pig epidemic … 500 million dead at last “count” … get your Xmas hams now!

    The list goes on …

  79. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 20, 2019 6:40 pm

    This is unprecedented! I have received a letter signed by the council, the CFA and Forest Fire Management, Victoria!

    It says I’m in one of the most bushfire prone area in the world!

    They suggest some precautions and plans, but, nowhere do they blame emissions and there’s absolutely no suggestions that we “take the moral high ground” !!!

    And these people call themselves” firemen” .

  80. Tony permalink
    November 20, 2019 6:59 pm

    And these people call themselves” firemen”

    They should pay more attention to The Fire Chiefs if they want to improve their firefighting skills.

  81. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 8:47 am

    but, nowhere do they blame emissions

    It’s criminal isn’t it!! 😯

    Nothing unprecedented to see here, move along (or update yor wikis)

  82. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 8:54 am

    Don’t know her problem is, plenty of time to watch the cricket now, it’s the ozzie thing to do.

  83. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 9:23 am

    Yes, finally some sport!!
    But why doesn’t the government understand that they could take the moral high ground with Trump on climate change. Surely the proof is that he’s always outmaneuvered when the moral high ground is used as a negotiation tactic!!

  84. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 9:26 am

    whew, at least there’s nothing unprecedented about this 😉

    Scientists and experts say that Australia’s fire season has grown longer and more intense due to climate change.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50483410

    But wot would they know, it’s not like they can access wikipedia (or even detailed historical data that tells us more than ‘fire was hot’ ffs)

    To all the fireys out there, keep your eyes peeled for falling scuba divers 😉

  85. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 9:33 am

    I don’t think that anybody ‘takes’ the moral high ground with trump yomm, it’s just automatically conceded to them 😉

  86. Tony permalink
    November 21, 2019 9:46 am

    Pretty sure this one is on topic:

  87. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 9:48 am

    Pretty sure this one is on topic:

  88. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 10:01 am

    This is related to Prince Andrew in a non sycophantic manner 😉

  89. November 21, 2019 10:47 am

    LOL…!!

  90. November 21, 2019 10:49 am

    That so-called “statement” from teh Duke is comedy gold…!

    “I have asked her majesty…”

    Yeah, right. More like a crisis meeting was called between lawyers and spin merchants and they decided to make teh Duke disappear for a while.

  91. November 21, 2019 10:51 am

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  92. TB Queensland permalink
    November 21, 2019 11:50 am

    Morrison has plenty of spare time up his sleeve (cricket games do not help productivity – BTW) after the last big decision … “we’re going to spend $3.8 billion on infrastructure” … that’s it …

    The coalition government came under intense pressure to bring forward spending on infrastructure, with big business, the central bank, economists and the opposition calling for faster cash.

    But Mr Morrison said the decision wasn’t based on a “phone call over the weekend”.

    “We didn’t rush around with our arms flapping in the air in some sort of panic crisis as the Labor Party wanted us to do,” he said.

    “We just took the sober, calm, methodical approach and got the projects ready.”

    But no-one knows what, where, how, when, who or even why?

    Still they did a marvellous job of fucking up the NBN … can’t wait … and wait .. and wait … and zzzzzzzzzzzz

    All talk no action … and six years behind!

    Twiggy and Cannon-Brookes are obviously sick of waiting!

    The mining magnate and philanthropist Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest has joined fellow billionaire Mike Cannon-Brookes in raising tens of millions of dollars to build a giant solar farm in the Northern Territory to supply electricity to Singapore.

    The company behind the project, Sun Cable, said Forrest’s Squadron Energy and Grok Ventures, the investment firm of Cannon-Brookes and his wife, Annie, had become co-lead investors in the $20bn-plus development.

    If successful, the development would include a 10-gigawatt-capacity array of panels spread across 15,000 hectares near Tennant Creek, backed by about 22 gigawatt-hours in battery storage.

  93. TB Queensland permalink
    November 21, 2019 11:51 am

    Markets doin’ well … again

    Down 52.3 (0.77%)

  94. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 21, 2019 1:16 pm

    “Markets doin’ well … again
    Down 52.3 (0.77%)”

    I moved my Super into a conservative option because I have a suspicion something bad is about to happen. I most probably am wrong and will lose a lot of investment returns if I am.

    BUt we should have been running surplus budgets since 2014 but Australia did not want to do that. Shows you how great Howard was. He was handed a trashed budget in large deficit and was running surplus budgets within 12 months and with unemployment at 8%. Much higher than now

  95. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 1:36 pm

    I most probably am wrong
    ……………………
    how great Howard was

    oh yea 😆

  96. November 21, 2019 1:53 pm

    “I have a suspicion something bad is about to happen”

    But the superior economic managers are in charge.

    And Joshie says “the fundamentals are strong.”

    So WTF are you worried about…?

  97. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 2:02 pm

    So WTF are you worried about

    something to do with reds’n’beds’ no doubt

  98. TB Queensland permalink
    November 21, 2019 2:09 pm

    So WTF are you worried about…?

    Joshie & Co?

  99. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 2:25 pm

    .@ScottMorrisonMP I notice you just said that there is no evidence that links Australia’s carbon emissions to bushfires? That’s just not true. Here are 18 warnings by experts since the Coalition was elected in 2013, all of which have been ignored.

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1197343104614846464.html

  100. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 2:26 pm

    I was listening to the ABC earlier, the announcer said “experts have described the situation as unprecedented…”

    So there was an interview with an expert who described the situation as “significant”

    Then they interviewed another expert who described the situation as”significant”

    Apparently the ABC uses “unprecedented” and “significant” as synonyms

  101. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 2:33 pm

    Apparently their abc are shit

    which they are ………… now

    Although, you may have missed it, but ‘experts’ (not armchair ones though) have actually used that term, you might be surprised to hear 😉

    UNPRECEDENTED news for yomm 😆

  102. Tony permalink
    November 21, 2019 2:43 pm

    [Is it acceptable to discuss the fires on this thread? There are a few precedents above so I’m guessing it’s okay.]

    Morrison is correct. If you accept the theory of catastrophic global warming dangerous climate change emergency crisis then you would also accept it’s global emissions that affect the climate. No one country’s emissions can do it, particularly Australia’s 1.3%.

  103. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 2:43 pm

    Yeah, the ABC probably couldn’t get one of those experts to say “unprecedented” on the record. So they had to settle for ones that would say “significant”

  104. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 3:32 pm

    18 warnings by experts since the Coalition was elected in 2013, all of which have been ignored.

    Just as a matter of interest, can anyone cite a single instance where a public sector spokesperson has said (something like)- “we’re satisfied that the government has done enough” or “we don’t require additional resources”

  105. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 3:37 pm

    No one country’s emissions can do it, particularly Australia’s 1.3%

    If we reduced ours by been .01%, it would still be better, it would still have made them (imperceptibly) better

    IF we had not been obstinate and LEAD with action, instead of being grouped with the worlds worst, we may have helped other countries do better, which, collectively, have improved things more.

    But this is all on the hypothesis that we weren’t scientific dinosaurs

  106. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 21, 2019 3:37 pm

    Still they did a marvellous job of fucking up the NBN … can’t wait … and wait .. and wait … and zzzzzzzzzzzz

    Personally I would not have touched it since it was labors idea but I am glad the Coalition did.

    Labors brain fart on a plane flight in 2009 (after LYING in 2007) would never be finished and who knows what it would cost.

    People are not even going for the highest speeds you can get with FTTN because of the cost. People drive the cars they can afford not the cars they would like to drive. Anyway there is a chance 5G will wipe out the NBN

  107. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 3:43 pm

    Good

    Robodebt class action to go ahead despite overhaul of Centrelink debt recovery

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/20/robodebt-class-action-to-go-ahead-despite-overhaul-of-centrelink-debt-recovery

  108. Tony permalink
    November 21, 2019 3:52 pm

    If we reduced ours by been .01%, it would still be better, it would still have made them (imperceptibly) better

    If we closed all twenty of our coal fired power plants what affect would that have on the climate and hence bushfires – considering China has 1032 coal fired plants and another 202 in production?

    None! It would hurt the poor in this country by increasing their power bills with no measurable impact on the climate.

  109. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 3:52 pm

    IF we had not been obstinate and LEAD with action, instead of being grouped with the worlds worst, we may have helped other countries do better

    That seems fair…but which countries do you think would have accepted our help? USA? China? India? Do you think the EU would do more? Do you think the President of Brazil would have decided not to say- “burning the Amazon rainforest is part of our culture” ?

    I’m quite comfortable to say Australia should meet its obligations, and do more, but the I don’t think the big emitters give a flying f**k about our help or our “moral high ground”

  110. Tony permalink
    November 21, 2019 3:58 pm

    *effect

  111. Tony permalink
    November 21, 2019 4:10 pm

    Maybe we could take all 19.5 million cars off Australian roads.

    https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/9309.0

    But wait, China – now the world’s largest car market- has 340 million.

    China’s 340 million cars on the road will emit 534 billion metric tons (equivalent to 1.18 trillion pounds) of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere this year. To put that into perspective, that’s equivalent to burning all of the coal in a fully-loaded coal train that stretches 94,000 miles, long enough to wrap 3.7 times around the earth at the equator.

    https://www.rfidtires.com/how-many-cars-are-in-china.html

  112. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 4:13 pm

    but which countries do you think would have accepted our help?</i.

    I think you've mistaken leadership for help.

    An unanswerable question isn't it.

  113. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 4:17 pm

    “Are we now a totalitarian state where people are prosecuted, convicted and shunted off to prison without they or the public having any notion as to what has happened?”

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/nov/21/are-we-now-a-totalitarian-state-case-of-canberras-mystery-prisoner-alarms-judge?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR3IFbe8aEHw-igwYl1v_a89N0x5F-jIJ_katmoaDGQhHESUb07hiOv0IUk

    Quite obviously yes.

    China has been a leading light for us 😉

  114. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 4:28 pm

    I think you used the word “help”

    But regardless of that, I think it is naive in the extreme to imagine any country, “little lone” the major emitters would give a flying f**k about our help or leadership.

    The purpose of doing a bit more is only to make us feel a little better about ourselves.

  115. TB Queensland permalink
    November 21, 2019 5:34 pm

    But wait, China – now the world’s largest car market- has 340 million.

    And you should have checked your usual source Wikipedia for a more exact comment …

    China is both the largest manufacturer and buyer of electric vehicles in the world, accounting for more than half of all electric cars made and sold in the world in 2018.[1][2][3] China also makes 99% of the world’s electric buses.[4]

    Unless you were cherry picking of course?

  116. TB Queensland permalink
    November 21, 2019 5:36 pm

    I’m quite comfortable to say Australia should meet its obligations, and do more, but the I don’t think the big emitters give a flying f**k about our help or our “moral high ground”

    Your point being?

  117. Tom R permalink
    November 21, 2019 5:38 pm

  118. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 5:46 pm

    Your point being?

    My point is- people shouldn’t bother to say – “our inaction on climate change is a cause of bushfires”

    Even if we closed every coal fired power station and all immediately switched to electric cars, we would face the same fire risk.

  119. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 5:50 pm

    And… that I’m entirely happy to encourage that we do more to limit our emissions, but the result will only be to feel better about ourselves, not that we are having any impact on climate change

  120. Tony permalink
    November 21, 2019 5:55 pm

    China is both the largest manufacturer and buyer of electric vehicles in the world

    Fascinating, I’m sure. 🙄

    Your point being?

  121. Walrus permalink
    November 21, 2019 6:07 pm

    “China is both the largest manufacturer and buyer of electric vehicles in the world”

    That must be why they need so many coal fired power stations LOL.

    So let’s keep on digging and selling

  122. November 21, 2019 7:06 pm

    Today in Melbourne it was 40 degrees.

    The last time that happened at this time of year was 1894

    So I guess that means it was not ‘unprecedented.’

  123. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 7:08 pm

    China’s growing appetite for new coal-fired power stations has outstripped plant closures in the rest of the world since the start of last year, data shows.

    China is also helping to finance a quarter of all the new coal projects in the rest of the world, including in South Africa, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

    If only we could take “the moral high ground” and “help” them, I’m sure they would see the error of their ways

    Trump would too!!

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/20/china-appetite-for-coal-power-stations-returns-despite-climate-pledge-capacity

  124. Tony permalink
    November 21, 2019 7:13 pm

    So I guess that means it was not ‘unprecedented.’

    Correct.

  125. November 21, 2019 7:26 pm

    This might be considered off topic, but am I bovvered…

    There’s a Jehovah’s Witness international congress going on in Melbourne right now and specifically at Marvel Stadium.

    Not that I wish them any ill will or anything, but if there’s any terrorists out there who might like to both a) make a statement, while b) not pissing anyone else off, right about now could be the best time to strike.

    Besides, JW’s want to meet Jesus so the sooner you can make that happen the better, and you’d be doing the rest of us a favour at the same time.

  126. Tony permalink
    November 21, 2019 7:46 pm

    JW’s want to meet Jesus so the sooner you can make that happen the better

    If that’s an attempt at humour, I don’t get the joke. If not, it’s appalling. If you’re drunk then what you do when you sober up will say a lot.

  127. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 21, 2019 8:04 pm

    I’ve never read anything provocative about religion here before.

    And I was concerned that people advocated that Folau lose his job!

  128. November 21, 2019 9:16 pm

    “I’ve never read anything provocative about religion here before.”

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  129. November 21, 2019 9:24 pm

    Is it because it was off topic……………………??

  130. TB Queensland permalink
    November 21, 2019 11:30 pm

    <Fascinating, I’m sure. 🙄

    Your point being?

    You forgot to mention it … 🙂

  131. TB Queensland permalink
    November 21, 2019 11:32 pm

    The purpose of doing a bit more is only to make us feel a little better about ourselves.

    That sounds suspiciously like something an arsonist would say in Applethorpe.

  132. TB Queensland permalink
    November 21, 2019 11:39 pm

    Even if we closed every coal fired power station and all immediately switched to electric cars, we would face the same fire risk.

    You do have a comprehension issue … no-one (with any intelligence and a bit of knowledge) is saying it will happen NOW!

    It will take time … but that is limited … do nothing and …?

    (“nah, why put guards on it? We’ve never had an accident yet – and that’s over six years”…

    … the following week …

    “er, g’day, mate … wonder if you could help us with an accident investigation?”)

    You must be familiar with the Six P Principle!

  133. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 8:33 am

    “we’re satisfied that the government has done enough” or “we don’t require additional resources”

    I recall a certain response to the GFC

    but the result will only be to feel better about ourselves,

    yes, we felt better about ourselves for sending less than 2% of Allied forces to WW2. Why’d we even bother?

    Is it because it was off topic

    If it’s topical, can it be off topic?

    Although, to further examine the offtopic, morrisons cult are waiting expectantly for the Rapture in order to escape the aroma of the Poor People. Perhaps they’d be likely replacements for your musings that won’t upset the delicacies of free speech warriors?

  134. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 8:36 am

    This whole thread is worth the read, especially for deniers in denial

  135. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 8:57 am

    NOT UNPRECEDENTED

    We just haven’t had it before 😉

    RICHARD DE GROOT: We’ve had records, weather records, fire weather records this November and over the last 24 hours.

    We have not experienced the catastrophic conditions this early in the season and we are very early in the season.

    https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/properties-damaged-and-destroyed-in-sa-bushfire/11727070

    But I call BULLSHIT! There’s not ONE wiki reference in the whole story.

  136. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:03 am

    Yes, there’s no public instrumentality that’s ever said – “we have enough resources and don’t require additional funding”

    Not education, police, health, tax dept, Centrelink, welfare agencies, the ABC, government call centres…or firemen.

  137. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:09 am

    And…battles in WW2 were fought in “locations”

    Can emissions be contained locally? If not our participation in the effort is mainly for decoration and making us feel better about ourselves. Which is fine, but it’s delusional, or dishonest or naive, to pretend it makes any actual or practical difference, particularly in relation to the risk of bushfires.

  138. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:12 am

    I’m not sure what your point is. If agencies saying the government hasn’t taken the proper precautions after warnings from across the experts in the field, is just agencies looking for more cash, then …. we should just ignore them all?

    Of course they will always want more, but when they are pleading their case, with scientific evidence to back it up, and the government ignores them, and it turns out, the agencies were correct to be asking for more, then, who is to blame?

    Even worse, if, as morrison now says, he didn’t need to speak to these retired chiefs, because he had heard the same from the current chiefs, then that’s willful negligence.

    The buck stops where?

  139. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:18 am

    Robodebt was designed to work badly, and it did its job with ruthless inefficiency

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/21/robodebts-methods-are-not-just-deliberately-cruel-they-may-be-against-the-law?CMP=share_btn_tw

    First Dog nails it! There are good, and answered, questions at the end.

  140. Walrus permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:22 am

    LOL Michael LIEbreich.

    Gee he doesn’t have a vested interest does he………………..completely neutral.

    You should quote Wiki.

  141. ivi permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:32 am

    (You must be familiar with the Six P Principle!

    Is that the actual or practical, and/or delusional, and/or dishonest or naive, and/or undifferentiated one where active participants in additive and cumulative risky behaviours have (un)limited (un)accountabilities; because they’re only a little(-big) bit adding to an attractive range of accumulating (crystallized/ing) risks (for others, for all); which really means they’re (not) not (adding to) risk(y behaviour)s at all; so, they can keep on doing their bits; even (ir)responsibly doubling-down on their little(-big) bits of (little-)big risky behaviours; don’t you worry about that, particularly the risk(s) of bushfires, digger?)

  142. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:34 am

    This whole thread is worth the read, especially for deniers in denial

    Yeah. I doubt it. For example his argument from analogy comparing our contribution to global emissions with our contribution of troops in WWII. One is not the same as the other.

    What would be worth the read is if he addressed the actual point: how much do Australia’s emissions affect the global climate.

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/reasoning-analogy/

  143. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:41 am

    I can understand Morrison declining to meet with a group of people who decided Greg Mullins was their spokesperson.

    His media statements have all been about “emissions are causing the bushfires”

    Since there is no practical control Australia can exercise over this, what’s the point?

  144. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:43 am

    Or, more to the point being discussed, how much do Australia’s CO2 emissions affect the local climate – and therefore the various aspects of Australian bushfires.

  145. November 22, 2019 9:44 am

    “Since there is no practical control Australia can exercise over this, what’s the point?”

    This is true.

    Especially when there are more pressing Prime Ministerial duties to attend to, like being the ‘water boy’ at the cricket.

  146. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 10:25 am

    how much do Australia’s emissions affect the global climate

    The bigger question is, how much do Australia’s actions as a leader effect the actions other countries may or may not take?

    We are currently at the bottom of the pile, and other countries look at us and say, why not, instead of looking to us and say, we can too?

    One is not the same as the other.

    Why not? Both are world issues. We stood up for one, and have run from the other.

  147. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 22, 2019 10:36 am

    “actions as a leader”

    Meanwhile, in the real world… 4 countries produce over 50% of the world’s emissions. Which of them do you think will take any notice of our leadership?

    That’s not including the EUs 10%. Do you think they’ll do more if we show leadership? Exactly who do you think we might influence? Indonesia?? Malaysia? Mexico? Brazil? Saudi Arabia?

  148. November 22, 2019 11:01 am

    But what about those bloody dole bludgers…!

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  149. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:14 am

    Exactly who do you think we might influence? Indonesia?? Malaysia? Mexico? Brazil? Saudi Arabia?

    Yes, why not?

    a recent memory. Trigger warning, they use the ‘U’ word 😉

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australia-banned-from-speaking-at-un-climate-change-summit-in-unprecedented-rebuke

  150. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:14 am

    But what about those bloody dole bludgers…!

    That article by Emma Alberici from February 2018 has been thoroughly debunked. Respected economics correspondent Maggie Atlas is having trouble keeping up.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/abc-boss-michelle-guthrie-says-broadcaster-clearly-failed-in-emma-alberici-controversy-20180227-p4z21j.html

  151. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:32 am

    That article by Emma Alberici from February 2018 has been thoroughly debunked

    yes, the stacked board at the abc, who crumbled under their own biased corruption, agreed it was ………… not in alignment with their masters plan

    ROFL

  152. TB Queensland permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:33 am

    Even worse, if, as morrison now says, he didn’t need to speak to these retired chiefs, because he had heard the same from the current chiefs, then that’s willful negligence.

    The buck stops where?

    At the cricket, silly! Much more important …

  153. TB Queensland permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:38 am

    Is that the actual or practical, and/or delusional

    Nah! V … works in many “management” areas especially public speaking …

    Planning Preparation and Practise Prevents, Piss Poor Presentations …

    With variations … Performance – Pay Packet etc

  154. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:39 am

    not in alignment with their masters plan

    As well as being absolute crap. Emma Alberici is a laughing stock.

  155. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:48 am

    Emma Alberici is a laughing stock.

    Who with, the conservatives currently running the economy into the ground?

    Anyone else?

  156. TB Queensland permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:48 am

    Since there is no practical control Australia can exercise over this, what’s the point?

    Are actually an Australian? There’s always a fkn way!

    Even if climate change is NOT to blame … the issue is that bushfires are becoming more prevalent, more intense, more dangerous and last longer … as are droughts …

    … bushfires can be managed better – with commitment – but the present federal government and its followers and sycophants believe in “hope and prayer” … something that has no scientific evidence at all …

    Climate change may be God’s work … but we seem to have fucked it up – or It’s gone on holiday! We need to get management down here now …

  157. TB Queensland permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:52 am

    Anyone else?

    Certainly not me … I’d back her against Joshie any day … (BTW is Joshie related to Benji at all/)

  158. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 11:55 am

    Who with

    Anyone who can read an annual report. Probably not you though.

  159. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 12:06 pm

    so, no-one you can think of then who isn’t one of the conservatives currently running the economy into the ground, hey tosy 😉

  160. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 12:15 pm

    Here, I’ll try and educate you.

    Westpac seems to be in the news at the moment so let’s use them as an example – since Emma cited the big four banks as some of the companies not paying tax.

    Here is a link to their annual reports.

    https://www.westpac.com.au/about-westpac/investor-centre/financial-information/annual-reports/

    Go to section 3 financials and scroll down to income tax expense. You’ll see for yourself that in financial year ending 2019 they paid around 3,000 million dollars. In the two years before that they paid around 3,500 million each year.

    As a shareholder if most of the companies mentioned I can assure you that for many years I have received franking credits due to the taxes they paid.

  161. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 22, 2019 12:52 pm

    I’d be interested to know which countries are likely to accept Australia’s moral high ground and leadership.

    Please feel free to nominate a few!!

  162. Walrus permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:07 pm

    “Here, I’ll try and educate you.”

    LOL ……………..It’s a hopeless case

  163. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:11 pm

    Of the ten candidates in yesterday’s debate for Democratic presidential candidates only two mentioned the term climate change. Weird, considering it’s supposedly the greatest existential threat facing Teh Planet.

  164. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:13 pm

    LOL ……………..It’s a hopeless case

    As a late great friend of mine used to say: Try and educate a mug and they’ll die in your arms.

    Not sure exactly what he meant but I think it applies here.🤣😂

  165. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:13 pm

    “companies not paying corporate tax.”

    Ahh, westpac 🙂

  166. Walrus permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:19 pm

    “Ahh, westpac”

    What’s that got to do with tax ?

    Anyway the CEO needs to go immediately as do any execs associated with the internal audit function and risk management/compliance management.

    I get the feeling the other big 3 are now double checking their own internal controls

  167. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:23 pm

    “companies not paying corporate tax.”

    Why the emphasis on corporate? You don’t think that’s what these corporations are paying?

    I’d love to hear you explain the distinction.

  168. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:43 pm

    Aussie, Aussie, Aussie

    we made Time magazine 🙂

    https://time.com/5735660/sydney-bushfires/

  169. November 22, 2019 1:49 pm

    From Tom R’s link…

    Australia only accounts for 1.3% of global emissions when calculating the carbon dioxide released within a country.

    [However] According to research by science and policy institute Climate Analytics, Australia also produces another 3.6% in global emissions as a result of coal, oil and gas exports. This latest research, published in July this year, argues that Australia is in fact responsible for nearly 5% of global emissions.

    In addition, Australia’s population is 0.3% of the global total, meaning this level of global emissions is highly disproportionate, argues Peter Thorne, a climate change expert at Maynooth University in Ireland.

    “[The 1.3% figure] doesn’t include exports either,” he said.

    “It ignores the fact that it makes Australia per capita one of the very worst offenders.”

    But how good’s the cricket.

  170. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:49 pm

    Stop embarrassing yourself.

    “ It is important to remember: corporate income tax is payable on profits, not gross income”

    https://www.ato.gov.au/Media-centre/Media-releases/ATO-releases-corporate-tax-data/

  171. Walrus permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:51 pm

    LOL TomR gives us a link to a UK based firm of chartered accountants to prove a point on Australian Tax. ROFLMAO 61 Rodney Street, Liverpool,Merseyside, L1 9ER

    And that definition is wrong TomR. Income tax is not paid on personal income it is paid on taxable income after allowable deductions.

    To say it’s paid on personal income would mean a tradie would not be able to claim a deduction for tools, travel etc. Your definition makes no allowance for that

  172. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 1:52 pm

    “the Australian Prime Minister refused to admit a direct link between the fires and the country’s carbon emissions”

    Correctly, because there is no direct link.

  173. November 22, 2019 1:56 pm

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  174. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 2:08 pm

    It is important to remember: corporate income tax is payable on profits, not gross income

    Not sure what the issue is, this is what alberici was referring to, the tax payable on profits, not gross income

  175. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 2:13 pm

    lol reb

  176. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 2:20 pm

    “ Not sure what the issue is, this is what alberici was referring to, the tax payable on profits, not gross income”

    Are you really that thick? I showed you that Westpac pays tax on their profits as do all the other companies she said do not pay tax. Emma was fucking wrong!

    FFS it’s like talking to a brick wall.

  177. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 2:58 pm

    What year are you reading your info from Tony?

    Also, not sure where she mentioned the big four in her original article?

    https://www.seng.org.au/node/767

  178. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:00 pm

    In Financial Year 2019 BHP paid US$9.1 billion to all governments, 79% of which went to the Australian government. For the fiscally challenged that’s around US$ 7.2 billion.

    https://www.bhp.com/our-approach/operating-with-integrity/tax-and-transparency

  179. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:01 pm

    Awkward\

  180. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:06 pm

    What year are you reading your info from Tony?

    Any year you like. Just name a company and the year and I should be able to find out how much tax they paid.

  181. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:09 pm

    Any year you like.

    It’s kinda unfair to compare 2019 data with a story written in 2018 don’t you think

    Can you highlight where she mentions westpac not paying the taxes in the banned story?

  182. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:11 pm

    Also, not sure where she mentioned the big four in her original article?

    She certainly mentioned them in the article attached to the tweet Reb posted, dated 14 Feb, 2018.

    The one you linked is dated 15 Feb 2018.

    Which do you think is the ‘original’?

  183. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:16 pm

    It doesn’t say they didn’t pay any tax.

  184. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:28 pm

    You mean someone on Twitter was lying?

    “Australia’s largest companies haven’t paid corporate tax in 10 years | The New Daily thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-… This includes the big four banks and our two big miners and retailers, Woolworths and Wesfarmers.”

  185. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:33 pm

    fer you tosy, from ‘within’ the tweet

    In 2015/16, among the top 50 companies, 17 paid no corporate tax, leaving just 33 to shoulder the burden. Between them, they provided just under $20 billion. This includes the big four banks and our two big miners and retailers, Woolworths and Wesfarmers.

  186. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:37 pm

    Qantas: FY19 tax paid $374million, FY18 tax paid $399million.

    https://investor.qantas.com/FormBuilder/_Resource/_module/doLLG5ufYkCyEPjF1tpgyw/file/annual-reports/2019-Annual-Report-ASX.pdf

    Page 58.

  187. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:43 pm

    Doesn’t matter. My point is that every Australian company pays tax on their profit. Needless to say if they don’t make a profit or make a loss there’s no corporate income tax payable in that year.

  188. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:47 pm

    Doesn’t matter. My point is …………………

    That alberici was correct? 😉

  189. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 22, 2019 3:50 pm

    Needless to say if they don’t make a profit or make a loss there’s no corporate income tax payable in that year.

    We live in a deceitful world run by lefties when you need to make obvious comments like that.

  190. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 4:12 pm

    That alberici was correct? 😉

    Never.😳

  191. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 4:16 pm

    [facepalm]

    have a wrong good weekend 😉

  192. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 4:24 pm

    A company’s losses may be carried forward and applied for tax purposes against subsequent profits – a completely legitimate and uncontroversial (except to people like Alberici) provision in the ATO’s tax code.

  193. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 4:25 pm

    have a wrong good weekend 😉

    Thanks, you too. Good chat.✌️

  194. November 22, 2019 4:28 pm

    OMG an ‘amicable conversation’.

    Is this a Gutter Trash ‘first’…???!!

  195. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 4:34 pm

    The related opinion article on the tax cuts was withdrawn and re-written after senior editors decided it might breach the ABC’s rules on impartiality, the ABC told the committee. The news story was corrected.

    https://www.afr.com/policy/tax-and-super/emma-alberici-antitax-cut-article-contained-nine-errors-20180410-h0ykfs

  196. Walrus permalink
    November 22, 2019 5:24 pm

    “– a completely legitimate and uncontroversial (except to people like Alberici) provision in the ATO’s tax code.”

    Not just the ATO’s code either. The thing about Alberichi is the misleading manner in which she writes as though Australia is the only country in the World that allows this

    https://www.dlapiperintelligence.com/goingglobal/tax/index.html?t=11-loss-utilization

  197. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 5:35 pm

    The thing about Alberichi is the misleading manner in which she writes as though Australia is the only country in the World that allows this

    And it looks like the articles we’ve been dealing with today are the rewritten versions. I distinctly remember when this was first published Alberici naively equated revenue with profit – something that has been sent down the memory hole.

  198. Walrus permalink
    November 22, 2019 5:46 pm

    And she bangs on about Depreciation in a manner that makes it sound as though it’s unique to Australia

    Well it fucking well isnt………………Bed time reading

    https://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-2018-worldwide-capital-and-fixed-assets-guide/$FILE/ey-2018-worldwide-capital-and-fixed-assets-guide.pdf

  199. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 5:52 pm

    I suppose we could get rid of depreciation and allow Qantas to claim the whole cost of their planes in the first year. Wonder how Emma would like that?

  200. Walrus permalink
    November 22, 2019 6:06 pm

    LOL

    Accelerated Depreciation on steroids LOL

  201. Tom R permalink
    November 22, 2019 7:28 pm

    And it looks like the articles we’ve been dealing with today are the rewritten versions.

    I linked to a copy of the original back up thread Tony (which makes it difficult to know which one we are talking about, it is true)

    But the simple fact of the matter is, there were no errors by alberici in the article. Some of the editing done had errors, and some people misrepresented her errors (one of the nine I recall was describing MYOB as a corporate adviser instead of a software company, which, yes, they are foremost a software company, but they also provide corporate advise, so, the errors were in fact in error.

    And then there is the misrepresentation, as we saw this afternoon where it is claimed she said the big four paid no tax (I still cannot find this in the original), but the article you were referring to quite distinctly did not say this.

    She never said that what was being done was ‘legal’, or outside of our rules. She was questioning the rules themselves. And, instead of defending them, the right wing, free speech warriors silenced her.

    In fact, the only ones who had an issue, were the right wing conservatives, and their blatantly, and proven, biased and partisan hacks within their abc.

    It was a totally correct and accurate article, and our oppressive regime shut it down.

    China were drooling with envy. 😉

  202. Tony permalink
    November 22, 2019 8:07 pm

    Tom, I can’t really argue with you at the moment – the drinks cabinet has been open for a good couple of hours. However, I do think the articles we read today have been amended, but without a link to the original I can’t prove it. I’ll try and find one if I get time tomorrow.

  203. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 22, 2019 9:03 pm

    I’m a little late into this discussion, and I’ve had a bottle of red at a pleasant local restaurant. But… Media Watch says-
    You can still see Alberici’s news story online, but it has now been drastically rewritten, and we believe it needed to be – to clear up the confusion between income and profit, to moderate the tone, and to get rid of gratuitous swipes

    Yes, it sounds entirely accurate when Media Watch this way.

  204. Tony permalink
    November 23, 2019 7:28 am

    Found it!

    This article compares Emma’s original ‘news’ story – as distinct from the other ‘opinion’ piece – with the rewritten version now online.

    Fortunately, a Quadrant reader spotted Ms Alberici’s original, unamended effort and copied us by email at about the same time Gaven Morris was sending his own note of concern. We’ve taken that original Alberici post and compared it with the version now on the ABC News website, which can be found here.

    You will find a composite version below. The struck-thru passages are those removed from subsequent versions, while the italic sections represent additions and re-writes. Note the ambient bias and loaded words, which we have bolded, in the original, plus the chief economics correspondent’s addled understanding of revenue and profit.

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2018/02/abc-economics-vampire-squids-blood-funnels/

  205. November 23, 2019 10:12 am

    Have I mentioned that there’s an international convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses going on in Melbourne?

    The place is teeming with them.

    If you’ve ever wondered what it would be like to be on the set of The Stepford Wives or that bit in The Invasion of the Body Snatchers when the entire population of your local neighbourhood has been replaced by hordes of clean cut, perfectly groomed middle-class white families mindlessly wandering about out in clothing from the 1950s, then a stroll through Southern Cross station might just about do the trick.

  206. Tom R permalink
    November 23, 2019 1:03 pm

    ambient bias and loaded words

    You mean like, going from ‘largely responsible for creating’ to ‘which they helped create ‘

    lol

    Apart from the meanie words, there are no ‘errors’

    Just facts greedy fuckers don’t want to hear

  207. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 23, 2019 1:17 pm

    “ABC Senior Economics Editor”, if an undergraduate wrote that as a research paper, they would fail.

  208. Tony permalink
    November 23, 2019 1:45 pm

    Apart from the meanie words, there are no ‘errors’

    Lol. Is that your testimony?😂🤣

  209. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 23, 2019 2:40 pm

    There is another thing to say about Emma’s comment. ABC employees are paid by the taxpayer and apparently Public Servants are not allowed to speak about govt policy.

    I think they can chair a program and get people from each sides of politics to comment. But govt workers are not allowed to have an opinion in public. Is this right?

    It is easy to tell Emma loves the ALP. Fine. She should leave the ABC, work for a private company and fund her anti-Coalition crap herself

  210. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 23, 2019 5:06 pm

    Well I have been banned from The Guardian again. Since I have been banned before I had to get a new email address and I have been more careful what I say.

    This time I said NOTHING but just cut and pasted a article from The Australian saying Labors Robodebt started in 2011 which it did. I pasted it 3 times and 3 times it was deleted. And now I have been placed in moderation, whatever that means

    It is a dangerous and evil world where lefties get upset about an article from a newspaper where the poster makes no comment

  211. November 23, 2019 5:14 pm

    “I have been banned from The Guardian again.”

    Thoughts & prayers.

  212. Tom R permalink
    November 23, 2019 5:57 pm

    Public Servants are not allowed to speak about govt policy.

    Perhaps you’ve heard of a little thing called the abc charter?

    Yes, it has been abandoned in recent years, but not in the way you imagine

  213. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 23, 2019 6:11 pm

    I see GetUp is going to start a campaign to stop super finds investing in fossil fuels.

    Get them to f**king mind their own business. Super finds should invest in a sny legal industry, and maximize returns for members.

    What a bunch of tossers they are.

  214. Tom R permalink
    November 23, 2019 7:16 pm

    Yea, back in yer box people!!

    fer fix sake yomm, it’s an opinion, peeps aren’t allowed that anymore?

    Next thing you’ll be whinging about people writing perfectly valid stories about companies basically freeloading off countries just because you’ve been enabling and defending this parasitic behaviour for years

  215. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 23, 2019 7:28 pm

    “””Perhaps you’ve heard of a little thing called the abc charter?
    Yes, it has been abandoned in recent years, but not in the way you imagine”””””

    Please inform me?? ABC people are paid for by the taxpayer so I am guessing they are treated like Public Servants. Right??

    Same goes for the CSIRO. I remember under Rudd a CSIRO scientist was banned from publishing a paper on climate change. Not because the scientist did not believe in climate change but because his solution to the so-called problem was different to what govt policy was

    People paid by the taxpayer are not allowed to speak against govt policy.I guess that applies to ABC presenters

  216. Tony permalink
    November 23, 2019 7:46 pm

    All this crazy talk about “companies basically freeloading off countries” reminds me of Kerry Packer’s appearance before a senate inquiry in 1991.

    “I am not evading tax I am minimising it. And if anyone in this country is not minimising their tax they want their heads read. Because as a government I can tell you you’re not spending it that well that we should be donating more.”

    (Watch to the end:)

  217. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 23, 2019 8:02 pm

    That is a great speech.

  218. Tom R permalink
    November 23, 2019 10:12 pm

    I am not evading tax I am minimising it.

    Exactly, and all the article pointed out is how much ‘minimization’ goes on at the top.

    Being ‘legal’ doesn’t make it right.

    And silencing completely accurate articles is wrong.

    What’s worst, their list of alleged ‘errors’ contain errors themselves, and fails to highlight anything wrong that she wrote.

    dumbass conservative bootlickers lol

  219. Tony permalink
    November 23, 2019 10:27 pm

    Exactly, and all the article pointed out is how much ‘minimization’ goes on at the top.

    It goes on at the top, middle and bottom. Anyone who pays more tax than they are supposed to is a fool.

    However, if you don’t like the rules then get them changed. I suggest you lobby Labor and the Greens. Then get them elected.

    Simple.

  220. Tony permalink
    November 23, 2019 10:50 pm

    Being ‘legal’ doesn’t make it right.

    Wait. I thought we lived under the rule of law. What would be better in your opinion? The rule of kings? Or religion? Or someone’s (whose?) version of morality?

    I, myself, am happy to equate ‘legal’ with ‘right’.

  221. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 23, 2019 11:09 pm

    GetUp should f**k off out of superannuation and leave investment decisions to professionals that are acting in the interest of members.

    GetUp have already failed with their overreach.

  222. Tony permalink
    November 23, 2019 11:13 pm

    GetUp should f**k off out of superannuation and leave investment decisions to professionals that are acting in the interest of members.

    I agree! (Luckily I have my own self-managed super fund. I can assure you I won’t be getting out of fossil fuels.)

  223. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 23, 2019 11:33 pm

    Super funds already have an option for “ethical investment” so GetUp should just allow people to make their personal choices

  224. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 23, 2019 11:39 pm

    And silencing completely accurate articles is wrong.

    I think it is entirely reasonable to expect journalists who live off the taxpayer to report accurately, and not use the “shock jock” style language.

    If a journalist wishes to use emotive language, go and figure out a way to do it at someone else’s expense.

  225. November 24, 2019 6:25 am

    I, myself, am happy to equate ‘legal’ with ‘right’.

    Wow, what a simplistic, uncomplicated little world you must live in.

  226. Tony permalink
    November 24, 2019 7:56 am

    Wow, what a simplistic, uncomplicated little world you must live in.

    Probably.

    In my little world the rule of law is the best system yet devised to maintain the peace, safety and fairness of a society.

    That’s not to say I don’t occasionally break certain laws because they are not ‘right’ for me. But I also know and accept the consequences if caught. I have my own version of right and wrong but would never seek to impose it on anyone else.

    Morality – or ethics – is unwritten and differs depending on an individual or group point of view. Which is fine for the individual or group but not a good way to organise society/societies as a whole.

  227. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 24, 2019 8:26 am

    Just as a matter of interest, why would any public company pay more tax than they are legally required to?

    So that dividends to shareholders can be lower?

  228. November 24, 2019 9:31 am

    “Morality – or ethics – is unwritten”

    Unwritten you say. Have I mentioned there is a JW international convention going on in Melbourne right now.

    They seem to have fairly clear and precise written rules as to what they consider morally or ethically right and wrong..

  229. TB Queensland permalink
    November 24, 2019 10:48 am

    They catch up eventually …

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/john-howard-malcolm-turnbull-issue-the-same-warning-about-australian-politics/news-story/0e1f2a34c77d68c2d0eb79bee85e65e6

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Have I mentioned there is a JW international convention … wouldn’t bother, reb … 144,000 chosen go to heaven … and there are 8.5* million members … just a bunch of gamblers!

    And they vote but don’t obey some laws … they must be immoral too!

  230. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 24, 2019 11:55 am

    Some things are legal, but that doesn’t make them right!
    Here are a few examples-
    *Walk socks with sandals
    *Using a fork the wrong way
    *Drinking a current vintage wine purchased from a supermarket

    While such behaviour is “legal” most fair minded people disdain it, and would support some type of regulation. Or at least restrict it to particular localities, such as Queensland.

  231. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 24, 2019 12:09 pm

    This is what got me banned at The Guardian yesterday. I made no comments but just posted this link from The Australian with a quote from it. It was deleted twice. The third time I posted it was up long enough for some comments, all nasty. They said Murdoch cannot be trusted and links to ultra ultra ultra right wing newspapers should be banned at The Guardian. Obviously someone complained and got me banned

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/nation/labor-flips-on-robodebt-system-shorten-plibersek-pioneered/news-story/0a2bb18f5a6ab279073f6bcd36f712d7

    Labor’s leadership team of Bill Shorten and Tanya Plibersek pioneered the “robo-debt” data-matching system Centrelink is using to target current and former welfare recipients for apparently not declaring their income properly — but they now argue it should be suspended.
    The automated system of matching income data from the tax office and income as reported to Centrelink to identify discrepancies was announced in a joint release­ by the then minister for human services, Ms Plibersek, and the then assistant treasurer, now Opposition Leader, in June 2011, adding an extra $71 million to the budget. The release said the “tax garnishee process had been carried out manually once a year for the past 15 years and involved a significant amount of time on the part of departmental officers”.
    “The automation of this process will free up resources and result­ in more people being referred to the tax garnishee process, retrieving more outstanding debt on behalf of taxpayers,” Mr Shorten said at the time.

  232. Tom R permalink
    November 24, 2019 2:12 pm

    Hi nil, I know it’s the weekend and all

    But fuck off you ignorant little turd.

    Saying Labor is responsible for robodebt ignores 90% of the facts, which is why you had to link to a lying ass news site for your info, cos they’ve already handily ignored the facts for you

  233. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 24, 2019 2:25 pm

    Robodebt started in 2011. What falsehoods are in the link I posted? I posted it because all the lefties in The Guardian were saying it started in 2016

  234. Tom R permalink
    November 24, 2019 2:26 pm

  235. Tom R permalink
    November 24, 2019 2:36 pm

    What falsehoods are in the link I posted?

    The same ones I’ve pointed out to you numerous times you ignorant wank

    The fact that there was no manual oversight

    The fact that the onus was put on the recipient

    The fact that there was no way to respond before being hit

    The fact that all the stuff the libs put into it is illegal, not just in an immoral manner, but just FUCKING ILLEGAL

    You stupid little prick

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-23/robodebt-scheme-political-disaster-why-government-is-ditching-it/11730090

  236. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 24, 2019 2:44 pm

    No.

    Robodebt started in 2011 when manual checking was removed and replaced by computers. But Labor had a human check the computers results.

    All the Coalition did in 2016 was remove human checking of the computers results. It was the next step and most probably would have happened no matter who was in power.

    If that last bit is not working the Coalition should reinstall human checking of the computers results.

    But Robodebt started in 2011

  237. ivi permalink
    November 24, 2019 4:08 pm

    (But Robodebt started in 2011

    I still tend to doubt that NoS reads-for-comprehension.)

  238. Tom R permalink
    November 24, 2019 5:55 pm

    I still tend to doubt that NoS reads-for-comprehension.)

    I doubt he reads, still just regurgitating what his mum says

    Nobody could in reality be that stupid

  239. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 24, 2019 6:06 pm

    I posted a link from The Australian which you have not really addressed.

    It says Robdebt started in 2011 BUT Labor had human oversight of the computers results.

    In 2016 the Coalition removed human oversight of the computer. It was the next step which would have happened anyway no matter who was in govt

  240. Tom R permalink
    November 24, 2019 7:48 pm

    In 2016 the Coalition removed human oversight of the computer.

    Among a raft of other quite probably illegal changes that made it impossible for respondents to dispute, which your stupid paper would have failed to address, just like you do … on multiple occasions.

    And then you keep repeating the same stupid lie that they only made one minor change (which in itself is not minor, but quite significant)

    Your an idiot nil, and will remain that way until you can stop repeating the stupid lie

  241. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 24, 2019 8:03 pm

    AFAIK the only change the Coalition made to Robodebt started by Labor in 2011 was removing human oversight of the results the computer spat out. That change was made in 2016

    I notice in your ABC link Tingle did not even mention Robodebt was started by Labor in 2011. Gee that tells me Tingle votes Labor

  242. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 8:29 am

    AFAIK

    Zero, zilch, zip, nil, nought, nothing

    The reason she didn’t mention it, is because it didn’t happen you ignorant drip

    But this has

    Australia endured the largest monthly job losses in three years in October, and the numbers suggest more could be on the cards.

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2019/11/14/labour-force-unemployment-abs/

    How good are recessions?

  243. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 8:44 am

    An “Unprecedented” comment

    An international security expert has described Australia’s fire strategy as ‘‘abysmal’’, warning that the nation needs to ramp up investment in fire-fighting equipment and be prepared for the possibility of terrorists starting bushfires to try and cause mass casualties.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/international-security-expert-slams-australia-s-abysmal-fire-strategy-20191121-p53cp2.html

  244. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 9:03 am

    Why does this “China spy” conspiracy sound more like a conspiracy from our end than theirs?

  245. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 9:08 am

    https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20111114210628/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/65939/20111115-0804/www.mhs.gov.au/media/media_releases/2011/06/29_june_2011_-_new_data_matching_to_recover_millions_in_welfare_dollars.html

    Media Release:
    New data matching to recover millions in welfare dollars
    29 June 2011

    A new data matching initiative between Centrelink and the Australian Taxation Office is expected to claw back millions of dollars from welfare recipients who have debts with the Australian Government.
    Minister for Human Services Tanya Plibersek and Assistant Treasurer Bill Shorten today said the new initiative will enhance Centrelink’s debt recovery ability and is expected to recover more than $71 million over four years.
    Beginning on July 1 this year, Centrelink and the ATO will automatically match data on a daily basis as a way of cross-checking former welfare recipients who have a debt with the Commonwealth.
    Those who are identified as having debts and who haven’t made repayment arrangements with Centrelink may have their tax refunds garnisheed when they lodge their income tax return.
    “The Government prefers to work with people and provide them with flexible debt repayment options, rather than having to garnishee their tax refunds,” said Ms Plibersek.
    “But if people fail to come to an arrangement to settle their debts, the Government has a responsibility to taxpayers to recover that money.”
    Ms Plibersek said Centrelink customers sometimes incurred a debt with the Commonwealth because they either inadvertently or intentionally claimed a benefit they were not entitled to.
    Mr Shorten said the tax garnishee process had been carried out manually once a year for the past 15 years and involved a significant amount time on the part of the departmental officers.
    “The automation of this process will free up resources and result in more people being referred to the tax garnishee process, retrieving more outstanding debt on behalf of taxpayers,” he said.

  246. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 9:25 am

    Hi nil

    Fuck off you ignorant twat. You are as dumb as a plank of dumb shits

  247. Tony permalink
    November 25, 2019 9:36 am

    Not sure why people think it’s all right to speak to Neil the way they do. Disagreeing is one thing but why the outright abuse? 🤷‍♂️

  248. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 9:46 am

    TomR

    I gave you the media release. Robodebt started July 1 2011. But Labor had human oversight of the computers results.

    In 2016 the Coalition removed human oversight of the computer. It was the next step and would have happened no matter who was in govt.

    Sounds a little like the Terminator movie when human oversight was removed from Skynet

  249. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 9:59 am

    but why the outright abuse?

    Because, no matter how often he is told, he ignores the reality, and just keeps repeating the same stupid lie.

    If he cannot recognize that introducing a raft of sweeping changes to a policy changes a policy, then he’s wither just a troll, or fucking idiot.

    I think he’s too dumb to be a troll

  250. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 10:04 am

    Robodebt started in 2011. Read the media release.

    The only change the Coalition made was to remove human oversight of the computers results. That started in 2016 and would have happened no matter who was in power. Computers are taking over more and more

  251. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 10:13 am

    That started in 2016 and would have happened no matter who was in power

    except it didn’t, because Labor didn’t, when they used the data matching, which they knew was faulty.

    And, putting the onus on people

    And, bringing in automated collection agencies

    the changes made were massive, and probably illegal.

    Which is why Labor didn’t, and wouldn’t, implement them

    Even the article I linked to clearly stated that, but you just ignore it, and keep repeating lies’

    So piss off and rant at clouds

  252. November 25, 2019 10:18 am

    Have I mentioned that there’s a christian convention going on in Melbourne?

  253. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 10:20 am

    That article by Tingle is misleading because it implies Robodebt started in 2016. It didn’t. Robodebt started in 2011,

    In 2016 Coalition removed human checking of the computers results which appears to be the cause of the problems

  254. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 10:29 am

    Have I mentioned that there’s a christian convention going on in Melbourne?

    Why didn’t you mention something earlier reb?

  255. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 10:40 am

    TomR

    Its funny. I give you a link from The Australian but you say the same things the people from The Guardian said. They were really upset I was posting things from Murdoch and people obviously protested nd got me banned for posting Murdoch.

    But you give me a misleading article from the ABC and I am supposed to believe the ABC. Why?

    Here is the 2011 media release. Read through it. Robodebt started in 2011

    https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20111114210628/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/65939/20111115-0804/www.mhs.gov.au/media/media_releases/2011/06/29_june_2011_-_new_data_matching_to_recover_millions_in_welfare_dollars.html

  256. November 25, 2019 10:49 am

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  257. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 25, 2019 10:50 am

    A Christian convention! Do you have any suggestions about what might be done with those attending?

  258. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 11:13 am

    Do you have any suggestions about what might be done with those attending?

    They could be forced to try and and explain simple concepts to nil?

    Like, record numbers aren’t always …. a record in the way we wish

    I mean, record jobs also coincides with …. record layoffs

    Especially when many jobs make you re-apply for them every year.

    It’s meaningless

  259. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 11:15 am

    Have I mentioned that there’s a christian convention going on in Melbourne?

    You’re beginning to sound obsessed with this religion thing, reb … is there something you want to share with us all?

  260. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 11:15 am

    WOOHOO

    The fires are out!

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1198692063513993216.html

  261. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 11:18 am

    TomR

    Did you know Robodebt started in 2011 when Labor replaced manual checking with a computer?

  262. ivi permalink
    November 25, 2019 11:19 am

    (Have I mentioned that there’s a christian convention going on in Melbourne?

    Once or twice; but I’m giving the JW’s a pass this week; because my Mum had a nice, long chat about climate change with a JW, who shared her Sun umbrella, at the shops t’other day; so they can’t all be in Melbourne; even if, and especially as, there’s some awareness that we’re all in this thing together.)

  263. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 11:33 am

    we’re all in this thing together.)

    Yea, but some are planning on catching the Rapture plane and leaving the rest to rot

    It’s like a version of ‘xtian’ love, but one more centered on self than anything else

  264. November 25, 2019 11:49 am

    “I’m giving the JW’s a pass this week”

    I’m not.

    My husband and I were walking along the Docklands waterfront yesterday and were subjected to a staring glare of disgust from one one crusty old couple with their JW badges pinned to their chests.

    They’re a weird looking bunch. Like when The Waltons used to get dressed up in their Sunday finest to visit ‘the big smoke.’

    Freaks.

  265. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 25, 2019 11:57 am

    So…Serena Williams is a Jehovah’s Witnesses. That explains so much about her attitude to opponents, umpires, reporters

    https://www.nickiswift.com/132689/stars-who-are-jehovahs-witnesses/

  266. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 12:01 pm

    Freaks aint what they used to be

  267. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 12:19 pm

    It always amazes me how Murdoch sends lefties into a frenzy. Just posting a link to The Australian with a couple of paragraphs from the article got me banned at The Guardian.

    They don’t even bother arguing with what is published in the article. It is just assumed to be all wrong.

  268. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 25, 2019 12:31 pm

    I’m reading “Identity Crisis” by Ben Elton at the moment. It is absolutely hilarious! A satire about political correctness, and it is so savage, it almost makes m cringe!

    Nothing is out of bounds.

    Apparently Ben Elton is regarded as progressive!

  269. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 1:00 pm

    Robodebt just conforms to me how deceitful ALP supporters are. The ABC said 2,030 people died after receiving Robodebt notices the implication being that Robodebt caused those deaths. That then morphed into 2,030 people committed suicide due to Robodebt.

    Turns out notices were sent to 900,000 people over a period of 2 years and 2,030 people dying out of a population that size is a normal death rate.

    ALP just misleads and deceives.

    And Robodebt started in 2011

  270. November 25, 2019 1:03 pm

    “I’m reading “Identity Crisis” by Ben Elton at the moment”

    Oh, I’ll have to check that out ToM.

    I’m reading “Hotel Kerobokan” by Kathryn Bonella

    A travelogue of sorts.

  271. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 1:09 pm

    I’m reading the Khan series by Conn Iggulden, and I’m beginning to think he was right (Genghis that is, not Conn)

  272. Tony permalink
    November 25, 2019 1:16 pm

    I’m reading the Herald Sun.

  273. ivi permalink
    November 25, 2019 1:22 pm

    (Freaks.

    Yep; nearly 8 billion of ’em; and circa 120 billion( +- 144000) of ’em, come the ‘resurrection’, depending on where/when one draws the starting/finishing-line(s) on the species, amidst the genus Homo.

    [And it’s (not) not my place to tell a single one of them that — unless they’ve gone skinny-dipping in the (bottomless-, horizonless-)lake-o’-(living-)fire(-water); and learnt to to tread water; and (re-)oriented to make their way to the otherside; and marvelled at the spark(l)ing forest of burning trees; and clambered to the top of one; and turned themself inside-out to sprout (better-than-)wings — they very likely have neither been ‘baptised’ nor ‘enraptured’, but are just (re-)enacting a cargo-cult version of a (made-up) will-o’-the-w(h)isper. 😉 ] )

  274. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 1:25 pm

    (we) were subjected to a staring glare of disgust from one one crusty old couple with their JW badges pinned to their chests.

    And then!

    They’re a weird looking bunch.

    I can just imagine what they said to the “congregation” … LOL!

  275. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 1:26 pm

    Apparently Ben Elton is regarded as progressive!

    Gotta link for that?

  276. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 1:29 pm

    Me, into Dennis Lehane books … number eight(?) at the moment …

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I’m reading the Herald Sun.

    We noticed! LOL! 🙂

  277. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 1:35 pm

    Gotta link for that?

    lol

  278. November 25, 2019 1:56 pm

    “A Christian convention! Do you have any suggestions about what might be done with those attending?”

    I think Jim Jones had the right idea with the cool aid thing, or Marshall Applewhite with the more creative approach with the black and white Nikes.

    In fact there’s a Nike store conveniently located at the South Wharf DFO; a mere stone’s throw away from Marvel stadium, so that could be a good option.

    It would help give the local retail sector a bit of a leg up too.

  279. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 25, 2019 2:28 pm

    Gotta link for that?

    Sure TB, and I can guarantee that if you use this, you’ll hardly ever have to ask again!

    google.com

  280. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 2:53 pm

    google.com

    Gotta link for that?

  281. November 25, 2019 2:57 pm

    Gotta link for that?

    jw.org

  282. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 25, 2019 3:03 pm

    42

  283. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 3:11 pm

    Playing politics with the elderly: 2016: cut $1.2 billion in aged care funding. 2019: put less than $600 million back in response to a Royal Commission. That’s it?

    Actually watched his TV presentation of this trollop with Gregory Hunt Esq. alongside him, burbling his usual nonsense … and ghost creatures hovering in the background!

    The comments from a range of experts, I should imagine, will be damning!

    Its been a problem for many governments Said Happy Clappy, but now we’ll fix it – couldn’t quite make it Labors’ problem … realises they were handed the steering wheel seven years ago and still trying to figure out how to get reverse gear into first!

    Two to go! Years not gears …

  284. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 3:19 pm

    42

    🙂

    Two to go! Years not gears …

    Unless we’re locked into a continual descent into maelstrom

  285. November 25, 2019 4:10 pm

    BREAKING: Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young has won her defamation case against former senator David Leyonhjelm. Awarded $120,000.

    Cue the tears of outrage from the free speech warriors!

    😆 😆 😆

  286. November 25, 2019 4:19 pm

    Apparently I’ve upset “all of NZ” by suggesting that Psy’s one-hit-wonder ‘Gangham Style’ was considerably more culturally significant and required more skill to perform than the fucking All Blacks and their stupid fucking ‘haka’.

    People are so sensitive these days… 🙄

  287. November 25, 2019 4:20 pm

    *Addendum: anyway, fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke.

  288. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 4:55 pm

    Playing politics with the elderly: 2016: cut $1.2 billion in aged care funding. 2019: put less than $600 million back in response to a Royal Commission. That’s it?

    Unless we start making budget cuts the budget will be in eternal deficit. Govt debt was MINUS $40B in 2007 ie less than zero. It is now at $360B, an increase of $400B since 2007. What did we spend that $400B on?

    Also the State seems to be taking over more and more. Shouldn’t children look after their parents? My Grandmother lived with her daughter and died in her daughters house

  289. Tom R permalink
    November 25, 2019 5:17 pm

    Guess shy cant take a joke

  290. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 25, 2019 5:34 pm

    TomR

    Do you know that after receiving Robodebt notices, 2,030 people died? And of those 2,030 they all committed suicide.

    Anyway that is what is doing the rounds on social media

  291. November 25, 2019 6:45 pm

    NoS

    Do you know that there’s thousands of weirdo religious freaks invading Melbourne right now hellbent on destroying our way of life?

    Where’s your outrage…??

  292. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 7:19 pm

    Macquarie stablemate, the Sydney Morning Herald, has reported Jones’s show has lost half its advertising revenue since the Ardern storm.

    I’m reading the Herald Sun.

    Cousins … I guess?

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    Cue the tears of outrage from the free speech warriors!

    Chuckle … so he huffed and he puffed! LOL!

    *Addendum: anyway, fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke.

    Are you including commenters here?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    What did we spend that $400B on?

    The Libs have been sitting on their arses for SEVEN years now stroking their mates with millions!

    Ask your Young Liberal Leader – he’d know (couldn’t possibly be a sheila she!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    Guess shy (sic) cant take a joke

    Does Leyonhjelm know any?

  293. Tony permalink
    November 25, 2019 7:42 pm

    Do you know that there’s thousands of weirdo religious freaks invading Melbourne right now hellbent on destroying our way of life?

    I blame Labor.

    The Andrews Labor Government has made business events a key priority in helping grow the state’s visitor economy, bringing the world’s largest conferences to Melbourne. . . has secured many other major world conferences, including the International Convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses in November 2019

    https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/victorias-business-events-economy-booming/

  294. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 25, 2019 8:06 pm

    These people should get some advice from Paul Keating about how to get along with China

    They obviously don’t understand

    https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/early-lead-for-hong-kong-prodemocracy-candidates/news-story/f3c5853790582d0ecae917cca0f6d856

  295. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 25, 2019 8:14 pm

    I like the new logo TB. Although when I googled images for TB, this one appealed to me

  296. November 25, 2019 8:50 pm

    Dog bless Daniel Andrews.

  297. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 10:42 pm

    The Andrews Labor Government has made business events a key priority …

    So you do get that religions are about business opportunities …

    keep a look out for the head of the Roman Catholic Church soon and although I doubt the head of the Church of England will turn up soon … the future “head” is already down here … waiting to pounce!

  298. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 10:43 pm

    These people should get some advice from Paul Keating about how to get along with China

    Andrew Robb? He is an honorary member of the Chinese Communist Party now – in wealth if not in name … …

  299. TB Queensland permalink
    November 25, 2019 10:45 pm

    this one appealed to me

    Wishful thinking, ToM, ya can’t control everything!

  300. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 7:12 am

    China going big on coal guarantees the world won’t meet its carbon-cutting goals

    “China’s proposed coal expansion is so far out of alignment with the Paris Agreement that it would put the necessary reductions in coal power out of reach, even if every other country were to completely eliminate its coal fleet.”

  301. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 7:34 am

    Volunteer Fire Fighters Association: Emergency Leaders for Climate Action – way off the mark

    https://volunteerfirefighters.org.au/emergency-leaders-for-climate-action-way-off-the-mark

  302. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 8:45 am

    I’m not really sure what that vffa (read, rich pricks who want to own the volunteer fire services) are trying to say there?

    They claim that fuel loads are high and resources are low, which is also what the actual retired fire chiefs were saying, but they said don’t blame the climate. And, to support their case …………. they repeat a lot of climate related stories??

    You must remember, this is also the group largely responsible for the mess the vic fire service is in, because they want to protect their little fiefdoms, but cannot realise that they live in a different time.

    Perhaps if they supplied evidence that runs counter to the fire chiefs statement, that might have helped?

  303. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 8:57 am

    I’m not really sure what that vffa (read, rich pricks who want to own the volunteer fire services)

    Yeah, their motives are all about money and control!

    The VFFA was formed in October 2004 by Peter Cannon who is a Group Captain with the Mid Lachlan Team, after the then State Government, RFS and National Parks and Wildlife Service would not take an interest in our concerns into fire safety matters following the aftermath of the 2001 fires in the Goobang National Park. Peter felt that volunteer rural firefighters were not given fair representation within the Rural Fire Service Association (RFSA) & thus the VFFA was born.

    https://volunteerfirefighters.org.au/who-are-we

  304. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2019 8:59 am

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/25/storms-france-greece-italy-destruction-floods

    It really is time they caught up … ’tis no longer a “discussion point”

  305. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:01 am

    yea, independent lol

    the ‘daily liberal’ is right behind them

    And, he got 50 people together, from a group of 69,000, that’s ‘representative’ I guess???

    https://www.dailyliberal.com.au/story/817939/fire-group-rises-from-the-ashes/

  306. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:01 am

    You must remember, this is also the group largely responsible for the mess the vic fire service is in, because they want to protect their little fiefdoms

    They’re a NSW organisation so I’m not sure how they managed to pull that off.

    (Do you just make this shit up because it demonises your political opponents? Seems like it.)

  307. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:03 am

    Peter felt that volunteer rural firefighters were not given fair representation within the Rural Fire Service Association (RFSA) & thus the VFFA was born.

    Sounds like Group Captain Peter, “felt” that he had lost his fiefdom to me …

  308. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:04 am

    But, enough of shooting/deifying the messenger, what actual evidence do they sight, that doesn’t agree with what the retired fire chiefs were saying?

    They agree that that there is a large fuel load, and they are underesourced. The reasons for this have been explained, and backed up by science.

    So, what is their whinge, or, is that all it is?

  309. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:04 am

    What Tom R calls a “fiefdom” is actually a local community. One that acts in the mutual interest of everyone buy volunteering to protect its community members

    Tom R probably isn’t familiar with the concept of doing things on a voluntary basis, time and a half is his going rate

  310. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:07 am

    Punching above our weight again, so much to be proud of in this Cuntry!

  311. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:11 am

    is actually a local community

    As I said, the ‘local community’ is not as it once was, and as that show on the abc showed, the volunteers are unable to respond to their new ‘local community, and paid firefighters are making it to save houses while the local volunteers haven’t even answered the call

  312. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:37 am

  313. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:40 am

    From that Guardian article:

    “ Jean-Pierre Hameau of Météo France said the storms and flooding should not be blamed on climate change. Hameau said the phenomena, known in France as cévenols, or Mediterraneans, were relatively frequent in the region.

    “They occur three or six times a year. It often begins in September when the Mediterranean is warm and there is rising hot air in the south,” Hameau said.

    “This usually happens in September and October, but sometimes we find these conditions in November. It’s not linked to global warming. We had these cévenols before and there hasn’t been an increase since temperatures rose. ”

    So, not UNprecedented then?

  314. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 9:57 am

    So, not UNprecedented then?

    Just so we can clear up some (perhaps) misunderstanding

    WHO SAID THEY WERE!

    (oops, caps locked 😉 )

  315. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 10:05 am

    These days I’m spending quite a lot of time in a local community, in one of the most bushfire prone areas in the world (according to a letter I received)

    My observations are –
    *this local community is much as it has been for over a decade,
    *the local volunteer firemen and committed to looking after the community,
    *the guy in the hardware store isn’t controlling a “feifdom”
    *it would be impossible for a government to resource this service with paid firemen and
    *I’m grateful that there are enough community minded people about

    But Tom R will probably find a reason here to disparage them

  316. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 10:16 am

    Do you scuba dive too yomm?

    Hows the GBR lookin’ to ya?

  317. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 10:22 am

    I see people volunteering to help the community, but you disparage them. Because you’re blinded by your politics.

  318. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 10:36 am

    but you disparage them.

    Actually, I’m disparaging a couple of loons who disagree, but cannot explain why.

    Not sure you know if volunteer or not, and if it makes any difference.

    lying on your deckchair watching others volunteering after a life spent making workplaces unsafe for people isn’t the moral high ground from which to preach, I’d say.

  319. ivi permalink
    November 26, 2019 10:56 am

    (I see people volunteering to help the community, but you disparage them. Because you’re blinded by your politics.

    Indeed; an incestuous cabal of Nats and (former-)Nats(-turned-Shootin’-Fishin’-n-Farmin’), with personal direct commercial interests in accessing state and national parklands, would seem to yield a clear-eyed analysis of the situation in the fired-up electorate of Monaro, and, perhaps, more generally; although, I’m almost sure that a conversation was once also almost had about better-preparing for fires, on a professionally-coordinated and appropriately-resourced intrastate(s)/interstate/national basis, in the era of adaptin’-to-climate-change; but the usual suspect(s) merely saw that long(er)-term Six P Principle’s being broached as a short-term opportunity for tossing Molotovs in hopes of garnering a few extra Victorian votes at a 2016 Federal election.)

  320. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 11:04 am

    tossing Molotovs in hopes of garnering a few extra Victorian votes at a 2016 Federal election

    Yea, and I’m the one playing politics

    fer real yomm

  321. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 11:17 am

    Apparently these people are a “a bunch of rich pricks” “looking after their feifdom”

    Go a link for that? Or is that just your natural reaction to volunteers?

  322. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 11:19 am

    https://volunteerfirefighters.org.au/vffa-executive-council-representatives

    Every one of them is “a rich prick”

  323. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 11:52 am

    Every one of them is “a rich prick”

    If you say so

  324. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 12:41 pm

    No worries!!

    I’m not really sure what that vffa (read, rich pricks who want to own the volunteer fire services) are trying to say there?

    they want to protect their little fiefdoms

  325. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 1:04 pm

    I’m not really sure what that vffa (read, rich pricks who want to own the volunteer fire services) are trying to say there?

    And yet, that question still hasn’t been answered

    Surprised … not

  326. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 1:16 pm

    Got a link that identifies the “rich pricks” amongst them?

    Didn’t you read the article? What they are saying is quite clear

  327. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 1:22 pm

    I’m not really sure what that vffa (read, rich pricks who want to own the volunteer fire services) are trying to say there?

    They’re trying to say there are plenty of factors other than climate change affecting these fires. And, because any action Australia could take on climate change is unlikely to have much if any effect in the short to medium term, it makes a lot more sense to put our efforts and resources into addressing those other factors – and leave solving the climate crisis emergency to politicians.

    Or words to that effect.

  328. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 1:28 pm

    And Qantas is 4th best airline in the world! With the world’s best lounges and the world’s best domestic service!

    Yes, Alan Joyce has really screwed it up!

  329. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 1:33 pm

    Or words to that effect.

    ROFL

    What they are saying is quite clear

    Yes, that they disagree with the reasons, but agree with the conclusions

    Except, the Fire Chiefs had science to back up their reasons, the bloggers had ………..

  330. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 1:42 pm

    No, the “rich pricks” advocated a range of policies, some consistent with the retired firemen.

    But they suggested that there are significantly more immediate and effective actions to manage the risk of bushfires, than a response to climate change.

    How can argue with that? Certainly not the main spokesperson of the retired firemen. His comprehensive strategy is based on “taking the moral high ground”

    Yes, that should reduce the bushfires and save lives, property, national parks and various kinds of animals

  331. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 1:46 pm

    But they suggested that there are significantly more immediate and effective actions to manage the risk of bushfires, than a response to climate change.

    So did the Chiefs

    More resources!! More initiative from a grubmint stuck sitting on its hands

  332. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 1:47 pm

    Extraordinary to hear Morrison Government defend failure to invest in more home care by saying the workforce isn’t there to support more packages. What excuse are they going to use next – the dog ate their homework? Here are the facts.

  333. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 1:57 pm

    So did the Chiefs

    The retired firemen emphasised the carbon emissions, and that was particularly the case with Greg Mullins. He wants to make the “moral high ground” the big plank in reducing the risk of bushfires.

    I think you’ve said the same thing!

    I suppose I could too, but not with a straight face.

  334. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 2:11 pm

    The retired firemen emphasised the carbon emissions,

    They emphasized a range of things. Some nutjobs got upset because they used science to describe what is happening.

    They simply had a broader approach than denial.

  335. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 2:46 pm

    Did you see interviews with their spokesperson? And what’s the name of their 22 person organisation?

    Do this research and you’ll get a hint about their main priority!

  336. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 2:54 pm

    Do this research and you’ll get a hint about their main priority!

    I’m not sure if you’ve followed much of this thread (or the previous), but I’ve actually put a little bit up in regards to this.

    Ignoring the factor of climate means you are ignoring the reality of the fires. Which is precisely what the angry old men from the vffwhatever are doing

    Is that what you want, to ignore a major contributing factor?

  337. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:14 pm

    Before I commit to their agenda, I’d like a few more details on how the “moral high ground” will stop-
    *Trump from pulling out of the Paris accord
    *The Brazilian president from saying clearing the Amazon rainforest is “our cultural heritage”
    *China from building hundreds of coal fired power stations

    Perhaps you’re able to explain, beyond saying we can provide help and leadership?

    I don’t think our emissions policy (or lack.of.ot) rates in the top half dozen urgent actions to address the risk of bushfires

  338. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:15 pm

    (or lack of it)

  339. ivi permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:18 pm

    (“Do this research and you’ll get a hint about their main priority!”

    At first, Morrison appeared to accept that climate change was affecting the severity and frequency of bushfires.

    These are things that are very well known to the governmentthe contribution of these issues to global weather conditions and to conditions here in Australia are known and acknowledged,” he said.

    In February I acknowledged the contribution of those factors to what was happening in Australia – amongst many other issues.”

    Morrison then said…….)

  340. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:19 pm

    The angry old Fire Chiefs (retired) advocated lower carbon emissions and more water bombing aircraft. That’s it!

    The not-so-angry and not-so-old VFFS has a wide-ranging portfolio of fire-fighting priorities – one of which is a warning against over reliance on water bombers.

    There are rarely any mentions of other factors which might be associated with dangerous wildfires, such as:

    ▪️the absence of, or conflicting policies,
    ▪️no effective leadership,
    ▪️high fuel levels in the bush (the simple graph below explains),
    ▪️poorly prepared residential areas,
    ▪️over-reliance on water bombers,
    ▪️lack of practical fire research,
    ▪️poor coordination between volunteer and career firefighters,
    ▪️lack of access in national parks,
    ▪️land management departments who do not effectively manage lands under their control,
    ▪️the decline in the number of experienced bushfire staff in agencies, or
    ▪️apathetic communities who are unable to learn from the lessons of the past.

  341. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:20 pm

    Perhaps you can edimacate yaself

    or

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1198191920775716865.html

  342. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:30 pm

    ▪️high fuel levels in the bush</i

    Three elements determine the intensity of a fire: fuel, oxygen and
    heat. Of these the amount of available fuel is the only factor that can
    be controlled

    https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/House_of_Representatives_Committees?url=bushfires/inquiry/report/chapter3.pdf

  343. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:35 pm

    So @CarbonBrief has just published some eye-popping stats showing global coal power’s set for a record drop in 2019.

    Global Energy Monitor doubts that.

    https://globalenergymonitor.org/coal/global-coal-plant-tracker/

  344. ivi permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:38 pm

    That’s it!

    Correct: the angry old fire chiefs (un)covered all of that, and in detail, and more; whereas the (re)charge of the alt-hippies-on-lighthorses-brigade cobbled their superficial pseudo-science, particularly their notions about how that greenie ideology stuff about how carbon emissions ‘in 2030’ might affect all their (mis)calculations, together.

  345. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:53 pm

    Of these the amount of available fuel is the only factor that can
    be controlled

    Well, as long as that window is open, hey

    Global Energy Monitor doubts that.

    Well, not really, as one measures the actual use in electrical generation, not the simple number of plants.

    Apples rarely agree with Oranges 😉

  346. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 26, 2019 3:57 pm

    TomR

    Do you agree with this?

    https://logicmag.io/justice/austerity-is-an-algorithm/

    The scandal’s origins date back to 2011, when the Australian Labor Party introduced a data-matching algorithm officially known as Online Compliance Intervention. Its purpose was to compare the earnings reported by welfare recipients to the social services agency Centrelink with the earnings reported to the Tax Office by their employers. Discrepancies would be investigated by Centrelink staff members, who would then decide whether to follow up with the recipient by letter or phone.
    Things changed in December 2016, when the government announced that the system had undergone full automation. Humans would no longer investigate anomalies in earnings. Instead, debt notices would be automatically generated when inconsistencies were detected. The government’s rationale for automating the process was telling. “Our aim is to ensure that people get what they are entitled to—no more and no less,” read the press release. “And to crack down hard when people deliberately defraud the system.”
    The result was a disaster.

  347. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 4:05 pm

    Well, not really, as one measures the actual use in electrical generation, not the simple number of plants. Well, not really, as one measures the actual use in electrical generation, not the simple number of plants.

    Not correct.

    Global Energy Monitor measures all of the following:

    Number of Power Plants, Number of Generating Units at each location, MW of Power Production, Annual CO2, and Lifetime CO2.

    So one (@CarbonBrief) is a rotten apple, the other, GEM, is a delicious fruit salad with cream and a cherry on top.

  348. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 4:16 pm

    China is set to add new coal-fired power plants equivalent to the European Union’s entire capacity in a bid to boost its slowing economy, despite global pressure on the world’s biggest energy consumer to rein in carbon emissions.

    Across the country, 148 gigawatts of coal-fired plants are either being built or are about to begin construction, according to a report from Global Energy Monitor, a non-profit group that monitors coal stations. The current capacity of the entire EU coal fleet is 149 GW.

    While the rest of the world has been largely reducing coal-powered capacity over the past two years, China is building so much new coal power that it more than offsets the decline elsewhere.

    Ted Nace, head of Global Energy Monitor, said the new coal plants would have a significant impact on China’s already increasing carbon emissions.

    “What is being built in China is single-handedly turning what would be the beginning of the decline of coal into the continued growth of coal,” he said. He said China was “swamping” global progress in bringing down emissions.

    https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20112019/china-ramps-coal-power-despite-pressure-cut-emissions

  349. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 4:25 pm

    I see nothing in there about their actual usage, it has capacity, but capacity is not usage

  350. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 4:26 pm

    I’ve no doubt that there will be no detail on exactly how reducing Australian emissions will reduce the risk of bushfires. Because there is no detail beyond-
    *We’ll take the moral high ground
    *We’ll help other countries
    *We’ll show leadership

    In the real world, the politicisation is disingenuous. No matter how much we cut emissions, there will be no discernible difference in the risk of bushfires.

    There’s no moral high ground to be taken with the major emitters. Certainly it is exceptionally vain of Australia to imagine that China, USA, EU… or anyone else will change their policies as a result of our moral high ground.

  351. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 4:36 pm

    I see nothing in there about their actual usage, it has capacity, but capacity is not usage

    Your rotten apple talks about production, not usage.

    Global electricity production from coal is on track to fall by around 3% in 2019, the largest drop on record.

    https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-global-coal-power-set-for-record-fall-in-2019

    My delicious fruit salad measures MW of … that’s tight, production.

    Neither talks about ‘usage’.

  352. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 4:37 pm

    *right

  353. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 5:03 pm

    Dude, it’s a thread

  354. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 5:10 pm

    Dude, it’s a thread

    So it is, cobber. It’s a thread about a purported drop in coal power production/generation.

    ‘Usage’ is not mentioned.

  355. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2019 5:12 pm

    I see people volunteering to help the community, but you disparage them. Because you’re blinded by your politics.

    If you read above … it was actually a particular “Group Captain” Peter … and HIS fiefdom that was referred to … but as usual comprehension bias took over …

  356. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 26, 2019 5:27 pm

    Really TB? I think Tom R I’d quite capable of defending himself, an he said-

    Tom R PERMALINK
    November 26, 2019 8:45 am
    I’m not really sure what that vffa (read, rich pricks who want to own the volunteer fire services) are trying to say there?

    They claim that fuel loads are high and resources are low, which is also what the actual retired fire chiefs were saying, but they said don’t blame the climate. And, to support their case …………. they repeat a lot of climate related stories??

    You must remember, this is also the group largely responsible for the mess the vic fire service is in, because they want to protect their little fiefdoms, but cannot realise that they live in a different time.

    Perhaps if they supplied evidence that runs counter to the fire chiefs statement, that might have helped?

    Perhaps your “compression bias” caused you to neglect to read what Tom R said

  357. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2019 5:29 pm

    Of these the amount of available fuel is the only factor that can
    be controlled

    ONLY? 3.1 Is very poorly worded …

    To stop a combustion reaction, one of the three elements of the fire-triangle has to be removed.

    Reduction of the risk of bushfires by fuel reduction is the most logical and proactive method … controlling heat (arsonists) is a little more difficult … and while planes and helicopters drop “fire retardant” it actually smothers the oxygen – but, once the fire is lit …

  358. Tom R permalink
    November 26, 2019 5:46 pm

    Aw ffs tosy, when it comes to coal generation, generation is usage. Doesn’t matter what happens after its generated, but the coals been used

    That really is semantic bullshit

  359. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 6:05 pm

    That really is semantic bullshit

    You are correct. And you introduced it. I should have known better than to follow you down that rabbit hole.

    Your source, Carbon Brief, claims there’ll be a reduction this year in coal production, “based on monthly electricity sector data from around the world for the first seven to 10 months of the year, depending on data availability in each country.”

    My source, Global Energy Monitor says there’ll be an increase, using data derived from “Preliminary lists of plants in each country [which] were gathered from public and private data sources including Global Energy Observatory, CARMA, BankTrack’s “Dirty Deals” list, Kara Atlas (Turkey), Wikipedia, Enipedia, SourceWatch, WRI’s “Global Coal Risk Assessment” report (2012), Platts UDI World Energy Power Plant database, Industcards “Power Plants Around the World Photo Gallery,” India Central Electricity Authority’s “Monthly Report on Broad Status of Thermal Power Projects in the Country,” National Integrated Resource Plans, reports by state-owned and private utilities, and national-level trackers by environmental advocates (US: Sierra Club; Turkey: Kara Atlas; Germany: Deutsche Umwelthilfe). For each project in China, the corresponding Chinese name was identified. For all countries, alternate names for projects were also recorded.

    “For each project location, a wiki page is created on the Center for Media and Democracy’s SourceWatch wiki. Wiki pages provide a repository for in-depth information including project background, financing, environmental impacts, coal types and sources, public opposition, aerial photographs, videos, links to permits, coordinates, and maps. Under standard wiki convention, each piece of information is linked to a published reference, such as a news article, company report, or regulatory permit.”

    So, we have competing sources making opposite claims i.e. increase vs. decrease in global coal production.

    You’ll believe the one that supports your narrative that we really are making progress on climate change, honest we are.

    I’ll go with the facts.

  360. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 6:09 pm

    *Your source, Carbon Brief, claims there’ll be a reduction this year in coal power production

  361. Tony permalink
    November 26, 2019 6:11 pm

    *So, we have competing sources making opposite claims i.e. increase vs. decrease in global coal power production.

    It’s getting late.🙄

  362. ivi permalink
    November 26, 2019 8:42 pm

    (It’s getting late.

    Yes; I suppose it is far too late to bagsy a tea party conversation about fewer apples produced (under-/-over)filling a produced larger orange box, or vice versa, when the fruity word-salad is the cherry-on-top; especially with an indigestible glut of ‘natural gas’ backed-up in North America; and India sloooowly chowing down on Leakian solar panels, with or without chutney.)

  363. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2019 11:17 pm

    Yes; I suppose it is far too late to bagsy a tea party conversation about fewer apples produced

    Nicely put, V … chuckle ..

    Too late to catch … jesus wept …

  364. TB Queensland permalink
    November 26, 2019 11:18 pm

    It really is like living in a Monty Python sketch!

  365. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 7:08 am

    “with or without chutney”

    Perfectly put. It’s where we are here too, bickering over usage,production and capacity while the country burns.

    That cartoon was pretty horrendous though, in cuntry well known for the horrendous.

    Jeebus may have well wept, but the Satanic Mills are laughing

  366. Tony permalink
    November 27, 2019 8:16 am

    Nicely put, V … chuckle ..
    Perfectly put.

    Yes, yes, all very clever I’m sure.

    The trouble with/advantage of using figurative language is it’s very hard to argue with. You first have to decide what (you think) the writer means. It has a certain level of plausible deniability built in.

    Ivi’s comments are quite colourful and demonstrate his obvious intelligence, but with so many (mixed) metaphors and other figures of speech I find it pointless engaging with them.

    If he felt like making more literal and clearly understood points, I for one would love to test or reply to them – as I do with most others here.

    Ivi is entitled, obviously, to write what he wants, when he wants, the way he wants, reb willing. I’m just not tempted to respond.

    But that’s just me.

  367. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 8:19 am

    Not sure I get what you mean Tony?

    😉

  368. Tony permalink
    November 27, 2019 8:35 am

    🤣😂

  369. November 27, 2019 8:46 am

    I have NFI what Ivi is on about at the best of times, similarly with Bagz.

    I don’t bring ’em here, honest.

  370. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 8:49 am

    Just cos I’m feeling a little melancholy, and, they are touring (and I’m too broke to see ’em 😦 )

  371. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 9:04 am

    I don’t bring ’em here, honest.

    ENABLER!

  372. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 9:14 am

    I have NFI what Ivi is on about at the best of times

    I’ll admit, much of ivi’s goes over my head, mostly because I’m time constrained, and it takes time to decipher, but the phrase, “when you see it, you’ll shit” seems apt 😉

    bagz just rambles, a few times he’s been poignent but it’s generally not worth the bother. Not as bad as nil though. I’ve wasted the past few days with the idiot, and that was my fault.

    https://i1.wp.com/tecake.in/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/cartoon.jpg?fit=600%2C450&ssl=1

  373. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 9:45 am

    TomR

    I don’t think you made a comment on this. Robodebt started in 2011

    https://logicmag.io/justice/austerity-is-an-algorithm/

    The scandal’s origins date back to 2011, when the Australian Labor Party introduced a data-matching algorithm officially known as Online Compliance Intervention. Its purpose was to compare the earnings reported by welfare recipients to the social services agency Centrelink with the earnings reported to the Tax Office by their employers. Discrepancies would be investigated by Centrelink staff members, who would then decide whether to follow up with the recipient by letter or phone.
    Things changed in December 2016, when the government announced that the system had undergone full automation. Humans would no longer investigate anomalies in earnings. Instead, debt notices would be automatically generated when inconsistencies were detected. The government’s rationale for automating the process was telling. “Our aim is to ensure that people get what they are entitled to—no more and no less,” read the press release. “And to crack down hard when people deliberately defraud the system.”
    The result was a disaster.

  374. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 9:56 am

    Things changed in December 2016, when the government announced that the system had undergone full automation.

    Amongst other changes

  375. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 10:36 am

    What other changes?? The ALP replaced manual checking with computers in 2011 BUT had human oversight of the computers results. That is what the Coalition removed in 2016. A change which most probably would have happened no matter who was in govt.

    Sounds a little like the Terminator movie where human oversight was removed from Skynet.

    But Robodebt started in 2011.

  376. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    November 27, 2019 10:50 am

    They take millions and millions from unions, but they still get cash from shonky developers

    Deputy Premier James Merlino was one of six Labor MPs – and one Labor candidate – who received donations ahead of the 2018 state election from controversial property developer John Woodman, putting fresh scrutiny on the state government’s links to the Casey land deals scandal.

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/ibac-casey-hearings-kingmaker-developer-boasts-he-appointed-council-s-new-ceo-20191126-p53e6q.html

  377. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 11:48 am

    Simple question for a simple person nil

    Did Labor ever robotically send out debts to people?

  378. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 12:00 pm

    TomR

    No but it was most probably the next step. Computers are taking over more and more. It seems that removing human oversight of the computer results in 2016 have caused all the problems.

    But I find it disturbing how hatefull lefties hate. It was stated by the ABC that 2030 people died after receiving Robodebt notices implying it was govt policy that caused the deaths. That then morphed into of those 2030 who died all 2030 committed suicide.

    Turns out notices were sent to 900,000 people over 2 years and having 2030 people die out of a population that size is a normal death rate.

  379. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 12:29 pm

    Did Labor ever robotically send out debts to people?

    I changed my mind. I think the answer is yes. But Labor had humans check the result before the computer sent out the letter.

    Humans do not write letters anymore.

  380. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 12:30 pm

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2019/nov/27/coalition-labor-westpac-morrison-albanese-politics-live?page=with:block-5dddc8658f087b800b621dbc#block-5dddc8658f087b800b621dbc

    got a link to show that’s the ‘normal’ death rate?

    There is one validated case that I know of a young kid who killed himself immediately after getting a robodebt. The notice sent him over the edge into suicide. That’s on this mob

  381. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 12:36 pm

    So I see you have joined the chorus of saying the deaths were due to suicide. If Conservative Australia does not stand up to you liars who knows where we will end up

    Death rate is 7.3/1,000

    https://www.indexmundi.com/australia/death_rate.html

    That means approx. 6,000 deaths in a population of 900,000.

    And what is the likelihood of the 2,030 who died all 2,030 committed suicide?

  382. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 1:22 pm

    nil, stop proving how stupid you are

    I said 1 (well, at least). Proven!

    Which is WAY too many

    Humans do not write letters anymore.

    A new Peak Stupid

    For starters, it”s not what I said. And secondly, fuck you are dumb!

  383. ivi permalink
    November 27, 2019 1:32 pm

    (….who knows where we will end up….

    Applying (derived) general epidemiological (mis)understandings to specific (vulnerable) populations, composed of particular persons; and still not quite grasping why the profound honesty of ‘Conservative Australia’ might be held in such high repute?)

  384. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 1:42 pm

    Bit hard to prove the suicide link. But commenters at The Guardian told me Robodebt notices caused 2030 suicides.

    But my reading tells me Robodebt notices started being sent in 2011 but the problems started occurring in 2016 when the Coalition removed human checking

  385. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 1:48 pm

    Bit hard to prove the suicide link.

    Not when it’s in the bloody suicide note, is it.

    And I’m not “commenters at The Guardian ” so piss off with that shit

    And yor reading tells you .. fuck all, cos you have no cognitive ability

  386. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 2:00 pm

    Robodebt started in 2011. And many lefties at The Guardian told me there were 2030 suicides after 2016 when lefties say Robodebt started.

    But removing human checking in 2016 would have been the next step started in 2011

  387. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 2:14 pm

    But removing human checking in 2016 would have been the next step started in 2011

    Except they didn’t, and they warned the current grubmint when they did

    Because Labor never sent debts roboticallly, because they had the human oversight

    So stop lying you stupid fool

  388. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 2:21 pm

    You have a link for your statement that the Coalition was warned about what they did in 2016? You are most probably right but I would like some evidence.

    From what I have read I suspect most ministers just follow Departmental advice for most things. It sounds like removing human oversight was the next step.

  389. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 2:40 pm

    nil, I’m not running around after you, because you ignore plain text, you ignore reality, and you ignore common sense.

    nitey nite dopey

  390. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 3:15 pm

    Just following (kinda) #qt, and it appears nil is garrad lol

  391. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 3:53 pm

    In other words you most probably have no links for your statements. I am going to believe this until proven otherwise from my earlier link. Robodebt started in 2011 and lefties mislead and deceive when they say it started in 2016

    The scandal’s origins date back to 2011, when the Australian Labor Party introduced a data-matching algorithm officially known as Online Compliance Intervention. Its purpose was to compare the earnings reported by welfare recipients to the social services agency Centrelink with the earnings reported to the Tax Office by their employers. Discrepancies would be investigated by Centrelink staff members, who would then decide whether to follow up with the recipient by letter or phone.

  392. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 4:17 pm

    The federal government has settled a landmark challenge against its robodebt program – conceding a $2,500 debt raised against Deanna Amato was not lawful because it relied on income-averaging.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2019/nov/27/coalition-labor-westpac-morrison-albanese-politics-live?page=with:block-5dde05408f080fd59fb18133#block-5dde05408f080fd59fb18133

  393. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 4:24 pm

    OK when did income averaging start? You see I no longer believe anything a ALP supporter says because 90% of the time it is wrong.

    Has income averaging got anything to do with data matching algorithm introduced in 2011? Robodebt started in 2011. It appears the problems started in 2016 when the Coalition removed human checking.

    That is what I am going to believe until proven otherwise

  394. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 4:59 pm

    For the slower ones.

    It probably won’t help the obstinately stoopid ones though

  395. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 5:13 pm

    Garnishee?? Garnishee?? Gee that sounds familiar.

    Media Release:
    New data matching to recover millions in welfare dollars
    29 June 2011

    https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20111114210628/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/65939/20111115-0804/www.mhs.gov.au/media/media_releases/2011/06/29_june_2011_-_new_data_matching_to_recover_millions_in_welfare_dollars.html

    Mr Shorten said the tax garnishee process had been carried out manually once a year for the past 15 years and involved a significant amount time on the part of the departmental officers.
    The automation of this process will free up resources and result in more people being referred to the tax garnishee process, retrieving more outstanding debt on behalf of taxpayers,” he said.
    He said more than $27.5 million was recovered from over 43,000 former Centrelink customers’ tax refunds in the 2009/10 financial year through the tax garnishee process.

  396. Tom R permalink
    November 27, 2019 7:10 pm

    Lol reb, Operation Garrad

    I didn’t know the context this afternoon 🙂

    All they’ll find is nil

    (Pretty sure that statement will turn out to be prophetic)

  397. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 7:23 pm

    TomR

    I finally get it why I got banned for posting The Australian at The Guardian. They think Murdoch is lying.

    Guess what? That is my opinion of The Guardian and most of the links you post. How come your Guardian link never mentioned that Robodebt started in 2011?

    29/6/2011

    Mr Shorten said the tax garnishee process had been carried out manually once a year for the past 15 years….The automation of this process will free up resources and result in more people being referred to the tax garnishee process, retrieving more outstanding debt on behalf of taxpayers,” he said.

  398. TB Queensland permalink
    November 27, 2019 7:48 pm

    I’m surprised Kneel survived banning at the Guardian for so long … and its pretty obvious that he’s still banned – his comments have risen sharply here … I can’t stop his shit dribbling out of my screen … and I’ve only been here a couple of minutes!

    I blame, reb, and his policy of not banning commenters …

    ===================================================

    But that’s just me.

    Sure is …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    TR, did I read, you saying, “the fires are out” a couple of days ago?

    ‘Cause they ain’t here this smoke haze has been around for at least three weeks and it ain’t shifting (despite strong winds) …

    ——————————————————————————–

    Spent a couple of days changing my Telstra email address with all my digital accounts and contacts …

    Came off contract and my NBN $15 a month discount disappeared off our last account and our mobile went up $5 a month … a week later we got snail mail advising us that our “plan” had been changed to bring us into line with their new products! Duh!

    Telstra shop was fucking useless and in fact when we’d finished the dancing and prancing … the guy said – in your case you might be better off with Aussie Broadband (I’d used their info as my alternative) … customer loyalty? Crap. Never used any other telco … offered nothing … wonder if they will when I pull the pin …

    Aussie Broadband … here we come …

  399. November 27, 2019 8:37 pm

    “I finally get it why I got banned for posting The Australian at The Guardian.”

    Actually, I suspect that you probably don’t.

    But that’s just ‘a vibe,’ I could well be mistaken.

  400. November 27, 2019 8:38 pm

    “I blame, reb, and his policy of not banning commenters.”

    Everyone who disagreed has been banned.

    #justayin

  401. Neil of Sydney permalink
    November 27, 2019 9:20 pm

    I can’t stop his shit dribbling out of my screen … and I’ve only been here a couple of minutes!

    It never ceases to amaze me how deceitful Labor voters are. Since the Coalition made changes to Labors Robodebt scheme in 2016 there have been 2,000 deaths. That was quickly blamed on the policy changes the Coalition made. Then that changed to those 2,000 people all committed suicide. How likely would it be that everybody who died committed suicide. 2,000 died out of 900,000 who received notices. A normal death rate for a population that size.

    Re Telstra. They took away my $20/month discount so I went to TPG. They are not as good as Telstra but are $50/month cheaper. And apparently the Telstra shops are not run by Telstra. They are franchises. So the staff have a different attitude than if they were owned by Telstra. Trouble with TPG is they have no shops so you can only get help over the telephone

  402. Walrus permalink
    November 27, 2019 10:59 pm

    So the idiots on the opposition bench screech demands Angus Taylor due to a NSW Police Force investigation stepdown .

    I didn’t hear the same idiots in Government when Gillard was under AFP investigation over her slush fund demand the same of their PM

  403. Tom R permalink
    November 28, 2019 7:05 am

    Careful wally, you’ll have to do a morriscum and say sorry for lying

    Gillard was never under investigation by the AFP

    Meanwhile, it appears our pm’s a Bin Chicken. This is #auspol 😦

  404. November 28, 2019 9:05 am

    I’ll just leave this here…

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  405. Tom R permalink
    November 28, 2019 9:07 am

  406. Tony permalink
    November 28, 2019 9:42 am

    Go grandmaster quits saying computers ‘cannot be defeated’ …

    https://news.yahoo.com/grandmaster-says-computers-cannot-defeated-104015667.html

    I, for one, welcome our new insect computer overlords.

  407. Tom R permalink
    November 28, 2019 9:47 am

    We just need to find a Go Grandmaster with a high enough midichlorian count!

  408. November 29, 2019 2:07 pm

    Prince Andrew reportedly invited a masseuse introduced to him by Jeffrey Epstein’s alleged “madam” Ghislaine Maxwell, into his bedroom at Buckingham Palace.

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/prince-andrew-reportedly-invited-unvetted-masseuse-into-buckingham-palace-bedroom

  409. TB Queensland permalink
    November 29, 2019 5:02 pm

    Prince Andrew … invited a masseuse … into his bedroom at Buckingham Palace.

    Come on, reb, Randy Andy was a big boy then … still is … about time Mum kicked him out of office building tho’ …

    I do enjoy watching everyone finally catch up …

    (Ya, mean The Firm aren’t really royal and their shit really stinks? B..u..l..l..s..h..i..t..!)

    The only interesting thing here, is that The Firm is run by a very determined (read nasty) old woman … who also happens to be the head of an organised religion … not many of those about …

    And how come there is no Grand Madams – oh, wait! 🙂

  410. TB Queensland permalink
    December 3, 2019 7:30 pm

    Time for a Royal Commission into The Royal Firm ….. 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

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