Pauline Hanson’s Dramatic Dummy Spit over Acknowledgment of Country!
Pauline Hanson, her of the self-titled political fringe party, has today stormed out of Parliament in protest over the traditional acknowledgement of country.
The meltdown occurred as Senate President Sue Lines acknowledged the Ngunnawal and Ngambri people as ‘traditional custodians of the Canberra area’ and paid respect to elders past and present at the opening of Wednesday’s sitting.
Hanson interjected, yelling: “No, I won’t and never will…!!”
She then dramatically exited the chamber.
The Queensland One Nation senator later said she could not accept the welcome to country, nor a proposal – to be moved later today – that would see the Indigenous flag present in the Senate chamber.
“I’ve been feeling this way for a long time,” she said. “I see this [the acknowledgement of country] as divisive.”
Hanson added the Indigenous flag had “never been voted on”.
“I will never pay respect to [that flag]. I find this flag divisive,” she said.
“We are now hearing it on flights and aeroplanes. I’m sorry – this is my country as well.”
“This is heading towards division in our nation. A them and us. And we’ll never close the gap if we continue down this path. All Australians should be treated equally and the same.”
If Hanson falls to pieces over a few spoken words and a flag, she’s going to lose her mind when she discovers the State of Victoria is planning to move Australia Day celebrations from January 26 in recognition of the concerns of indigenous Australians observing it as a day of mourning.
theguttertrash.com 
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Simple but to the point
While I agree with you dicks re Hanson, I really would like to see a “one nation” “we are one” FLAG … “its time” … having three flags IS divisive … maybe the Voice will make a difference …
Flying three flags at the same level is really silly … if we are one nation … lotsa dots no union jack!
As for recognising country … absofknlutely! Silly bitch, Praline! … am I the only sane Queenslander? FFS!
As a side note, if you have never been to Uluru, Kata Tjuta or the Katherine Gorge … and of course K’gari … GO … all those places are really “spiritual” (never felt in all those stupid cathedrals) … impossible to explain …
Putin’s defense (and those if his apologists) are no different to the excuses used by a wife beater.
* She was always mine
* She was starting to look at others
* She made me feel inadequate and insecure
* It’s like I wasn’t good enough
* We used to be so happy when she would do what I told her
* She deserves it
??
LOL! @ Sumer …
We know … but that’s our ToM …. 🙄😎
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/chaos-at-melbourne-airport-as-qantas-travellers-face-massive-delays-due-to-it-glitch/news-story/cec0e5fdb942939fd07369e60ef696fd
l see kooyong is quite emotional about theRealdeal. You need to calm down. Just as physics based citizens know; our govts are clogged with corporate whim granters, and assorted weak cornflower blue ties. Back in 2013 (mh17-days) theRealdeal understood that nato was clogged with the same type of critters, and thePanda knows this too. lt will be interesting to see if thePanda ends up chomping taipai island as well. They both know that ukrain and taipai are knot going to be fought ‘head-on’ for by yankeeland and its arselicking deputy sheriffs. Tho ukrain may end up being a ‘vietnam’ for theRealdeal.`
Bye bye groomers:
Don’t think that Pauline can do New York but perhaps she could make a visit to Taiwan?
A mountain of publicity awaits.
So MN do you think public officials should be able to visit Taiwan? Or should they accept the bullying and intimidation of the CCP?
ToM – a few questions in return.
Do you think that United States public officials should be subject to the International Court of Justice? (Or don’t USA officials commit war crimes?) Do you think the USA should have allowed Cuba to host Russian missiles? Do you think the USA should have invaded Iraq? What about Vietnam? Do you think that the USA would allow Mexico to host Chinese missiles? Or Canada to host Russian Missiles? If not then why not?
Do you think that the USA should have continued to bomb North Korea, long after they had raised the metaphorical white flag? What about Dresden? Mosul? Should they have used a nuclear weapon? (Twice – the only Nation to use same.)
Did you know that the USA has roughly 750 foreign military bases – spread across 80 nations while China has 5? Do you think China should be allowed to have any number of bases in the East and South China Sea(s)?
As stated on any number of occasions (without apparent effect) when it comes to international power plays the overriding principle is Might Is Right . Shouldn’t be too hard to grasp
It’s probably the case that Pelosi will make an unannounced visit to territory claimed by China. Will she then take full responsibility for any unpleasant outcomes? You might note that the US President (the boss of the armed forces is recommending against same).
The USA is in decline. Realists know that. But it’s ‘common sense’ proceeds on the assumption that Might Is Right , regardless of how temporary that ‘state of affairs’ is.
You should recognise that as well.
Is Pelosi going or not?
Will she accept the consequences? Or is she not responsible for any outcome? Just her (supposedly) “good intentions”
Will she be held “ethically” accountable? (See “teleological” ethical principles as distinct from the “deontological” – and while there you might look at “existential: ethics as well).
https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-teleological-and-deontological/#:~:text=of%20an%20action.-,Teleological%20ethics%20determines%20the%20goodness%20or%20badness%20of%20an%20action,between%20teleological%20and%20deontological%20ethics.
http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/ideology-politics/difference-between-deontology-and-teleology/
ToM – a few questions in return.
This should be fun (for a few days)
TB – telling lies is “par for the course” when it comes to international politics.
Not sure that the average punter can handle what we might call the ‘truth’. It’s perhaps why we don’t have a ‘better’ democracy.
(Note – there’s been some generalisations above. And there always will be – at least – on most occasions.)
“Do you think that United States public officials should be subject to the International Court of Justice? “
No. Globalist institutions fuck off.
“(Or don’t USA officials commit war crimes?)”
Of course they do.
“Do you think the USA should have allowed Cuba to host Russian missiles?
No. Commie tyrants fuck off.
“Do you think the USA should have invaded Iraq?”
No.
“What about Vietnam?”
They didn’t invade Vietnam.
” Do you think that the USA would allow Mexico to host Chinese missiles? Or Canada to host Russian Missiles? If not then why not?”
They should not, if they can avoid it. It is not in their interests.
“Do you think that the USA should have continued to bomb North Korea, long after they had raised the metaphorical white flag? What about Dresden? Mosul?
Probably not.
“Should they have used a nuclear weapon? (Twice – the only Nation to use same.)”
Of course. Less people died as a result.
“As stated on any number of occasions (without apparent effect) when it comes to international power plays the overriding principle is Might Is Right .”
Is there something wrong with this?
“It’s probably the case that Pelosi will make an unannounced visit to territory claimed by China. Will she then take full responsibility for any unpleasant outcomes?”
Why should she. If Cunt Xi does something atrocious, why blame Cunt Pelosi. She is not threatening China, just doing something the murderous mongrel regime doesn’t like. Cunt Xi, like Cunt Putin, is responsible for his own actions.
“The USA is in decline. Realists know that. But it’s ‘common sense’ proceeds on the assumption that Might Is Right”
And? The US has been in managed decline since Obama. It is what globalists want. A world dominated by Russia or China will not be better than the Pax Americana. Better that the US retain at least military parity with its rivals and communicate clearly its ability and willingness to use its power.
That’s correct splats, yankeeland and its arselicking deputy sheriffs should just keep elevating the level of hairychestedness in the world (against-others), then bleat and bray when they receive ‘in-kind’ or sleep zombie into something they can’t escape/ extract selves from. BTW, dozey joe drone bombed the team osama 2ic today.`
As l’ve said for years ‘ more pelosi is an answer to nothing’`
TB – you may recall that when ‘breathalyzers’ were first introduced into QLD, those of good character (men of the cloth in particular) could (successfully) claim that while they may have been the influence of alcohol (as objectively determined via the machine), they had driven (only) under the belief that they were sober. They had the best and purest of intentions.
Because they were ‘priests’ who religiously followed the 10 Commandments (an example of deontological ethics) and therefore never lied, the good intention argument often prevailed. But (with the right character references) more and more objectively drunk were freed by the courts. So the law was changed. Intention was overridden by outcome. in virtually all cases.
Another example of relevance involves police and speeding drivers. In days of yore, police could and would chase speeding drivers until the end. Now, with an ethical command unit to the fore, police must be conscious of possible outcomes. Might be the death of the driver, passengers, pedestrians etc. No, Police must consider the possible consequences/outcomes of their actions.
So if the humble copper has to consider possible outcomes , then why not well educated national leaders? Could the leader of Ukraine (and Russia) foresee the likely outcomes of their actions? What about the President of the USA? What about the many deaths to come? How are they to be judged?
So many questions that might be asked – but never will. It’s not how international politics works – unless there’s very clear losers.
How about we start here. Can you cite a similar United Nations report on the US?
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/05/1118072
ToM are you now using the UN as a final arbiter? Why not the International Court of Justice?
Or even this one.
https://www.hrlc.org.au/news/2021/7/6/australian-government-ignores-key-recommendations-from-major-un-human-rights-review
How about you stop trying to contextualise Putin’s brutality and CCP intimidation with the “look over there” nonsense
Is there any United Nations report that provides similar criticism of the US or any other western democracy?
It’s not how international politics works – unless there’s very clear losers.
There are always losers … just not the ones responsible … half a dozen megalomaniacs playing chess with billions of lives? People who just want get on with their lives … the Russian people have nothing to gain from the Ukraine “military operation”. In fact its costing globally.
I’ve been down the … “might is right”, track before … my business mentor many years ago used to say, “if might is right, and right is right, then, might, might be right”
The heated discussions followed!
Did we invade East Timor? Or was it politically “arranged” so that Australia could steal resources?
Did we invade Vietnam … or … The American War as the Vietnamese call it … millions of people and their families lives were disrupted in many different ways … in VN and many other countries on both side …
The Winners — again The Robber Barons
Read on …
https://www.ncpedia.org/anchor/vietnam-war-timeline
Fascinating to see YoM accuse someone else of “look over there nonsense” when he’s spent the last two weeks desperately trying to derail a post about Alan Joyce with unhinged rants about Dan Andrews!!
Lol
Chuckle!
Ahh … Lord ToMmy! Its all that sun and salt water … and the swells of course …
He seems obsessed with “failure” – executives, public servants, unions … so what was he? A “manager” at JH? (They’re all engineers BTW … “yesterday I couldn’t spell engiir, today I are one!)
😄
Yes.
Because when anyone raises stuff like the current bombing of hospitals and schools as an approved Russian military strategy, it’s important that we talk about Vietnam.
What? Please explain? @ ToM
unhinged rants about Dan Andrews!
Guessing dAN made him do it?
And dAN made joyce an asshole too I guess?
During the pandemic the grounding of airlines saw Qantas receive $2bn of bailout money from the then Morrison government.
The government demanded no equity in exchange for its largesse, and Qantas management gave no reassurances, either – not about jobs, routes, services or quality. While milking the taxpayer teat for two-thirds of the value of the company, Qantas management did not maintain jobs.
Instead, they sacked its unionised ground staff, exploiting a “window of opportunity” when workers weren’t physically at work and therefore unable to bargain. In late 2019 they unlawfully sacked 2,000 baggage handlers, cleaners, aircraft towing crews and other ground crew whose professionalism is now so desperately missed.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/02/once-upon-a-time-qantas-had-a-peerless-reputation-how-did-things-go-so-wrong
But dAAAANNNN
Pauline Hanson, her of the self-titled political fringe party, has today stormed out of Parliament in protest over the traditional acknowledgement of country.
Traditional? When did this tradition start in Parliament?
Yes. Qantas has sought to get a workforce that actually works
When did this tradition start in Parliament?
Since 2008
Qantas has sought to get a workforce that actually works
Yes, a workforce that can take them from number 1, to working their way to the bottom? …… Do you ever think about what you write?
I see the leader of the Greens just said this
Gas companies are “poster child tax avoiders” which should be made to pay a greater share of revenue to fund essential services, Greens leader Adam Bandt says.
But ALP/Greens want to get rid of fossil fuels. So we will get zero coal and gas revenue under these people.
PS i would not say something which started in 2008 traditional.
PS i would not say something which started in 2008 traditional.
But I’ll bet you are hooked on the date for Australia Day
When did Australia day start? But i would not call something which started in 2008 traditional.
FFS! Kneel … recognising another mobs country has been traditional for 60,000 years … ADOPTING that tradition in Parliament, has been for 14 years.
And before you start your bullshit argument – when does a “tradition” can begin?
FFS! Kneel!
When did Australia day start?
You don’t know? And you’re arguing about tradition?
Did we invade East Timor? Or was it politically “arranged” so that Australia could steal resources?
You cannot give Howard credit for anything. It was your hero PM Gough Whitlam who gave East Timor to Indonesia. Labor did not care about East Timor. Not worth a fight.
It was John Howard who sent in the troops and got East Timor their independence
“ Yes. Qantas has sought to get a workforce that actually works ”
So you blame chairman dan for the dud performance of old jonestown airport, knot the toxification of jobs via outsaucing by the boardrooms.`
You don’t know? And you’re arguing about tradition?
It is a guttertrash tradition for nil to argue about what they don’t know about. Let’s not go changing traditions now 😉
The Friendly KingBreaker 🙂
” The government demanded no equity in exchange for its largesse, and Qantas management gave no reassurances, either – not about jobs, routes, services or quality. While milking the taxpayer teat for two-thirds of the value of the company, Qantas management did not maintain jobs.”
So (if-true) gold parenting medalists are knot bothered about the 2/3rd ‘value’ drained from treasury into qantas, building the debt/deficit mountain of crap dropped on their baby primates. At least the asset stripping and sovereign risk loading of muppet island so publicly give thePanda comfort. Good thing there is know other risks out there.`
Re:
Way back in 1761 in America, an anti-British slogan was generated (before the American Revolution – 1775-1783). In full, it stated – “Taxation without representation is tyranny.” It was attributed to James Otis and reflected the resentment of American colonists at being taxed by a British Parliament to which they elected no representatives. Versions of that mantra still exists today.
That ‘common sense’, like much of American political discourse, now finds a home in Australia – which has a completely different history. But one shouldn’t be surprised because while Australia is quick to claim sovereignty , it’s largely limited to the ‘verbalised’ level. At the ‘lived’ level we tend to be ‘followers’ – not ‘leaders’ – eveready to accept a ‘reality’ as constructed by the ‘other’ as any reading of recent history will demonstrate.
Thus we can accurately describe ourselves as a Deputy Sheriff to the USA as pointed out by US President Bush and originally welcomed by John Howard. But perhaps ‘language’ is not important. And being labelled as the poor white trash of Asia should matter not.
Did we invade East Timor? Or was it politically “arranged” so that Australia could steal resources?
TB
You really should apologise for that statement. This from Wikipedia about what your hero Gough whitlam did
In September 1974, Whitlam met with President Suharto in Indonesia and indicated that he would support Indonesia if it annexed East Timor.[137]
Whatever the motives were of John Howard/Coalition, Howard sent in the troops and got East Timor their independence. Something the Labor Party did not care about. The ALP is just a waste of space as a political party. It just destroys people lives.
How long will it take for Hanson et al to jump on the ‘super tax’ (windfall profits) bandwagon? On behalf of Labor, Chalmers rejected that path in response to a question from Steggall today.
Guess, the promise of “no new taxes” (a foolish one) might be the beginning of the end because so many more citizens see graphs showing rising profits with an increasing percentage going to ‘capital’ at the expense of ‘labour’.
Best to act when the polls are positive because, as a glance at the historical record will show, the ‘honeymoon’ is somewhat brief.
You really should apologise for that statement.
NO! I should not! You should for your iggorance!
I disagreed with Indonesia annexing East Timor (and West Papua) … they are sovereign states … East Timor was a major asset (help) to Australia during WW2 …
Just because you are blinded to anything Johnny Howard and the Private School Boys and the LNP did … doesn’t mean that I am … nor am I blinded to the stupidity that Labor can do …
Did Australia “steal” gas from ET did Australia use detection devices in ET parliament?
ET are our ALLIES FFS!, Kneel!
A family member served there …
You know SFA …
Why do I reply this crap?
‘Tis fun … 😎
… increasing percentage going to ‘capital’ at the expense of ‘labour’.
A never-ending story, MN, hence my use of Robber Barons … they have always been here but now they are Corporate Robber Barons … and the ignorance of company boards astounds me … if the workforce is shifted to a resource pool … then those SKILLED workers and their families wil literally REVOLT!
They have to to simply survive and provide for their families …
Welcome to the 51st State of the USA …
Trickle down economics is a farce … vacuum up economics is slowly destroying Western communities and what do we end up with … communism or complete global annihilation just because of greedy pricks who have more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ than they could use in a million lifetime … the poor and destitute (now middle class!) need a decent cut of the profit!
Did Australia “steal” gas from ET did Australia use detection devices in ET parliament?
Once again you divert. I have never heard you condemn Whitlam/ALP. I have only heard you condemn Howard about East Timor. This from Wikipedia
There are a number of reasons why the Whitlam Government supported Indonesia’s
annexation of East Timor. Whitlam, speaking to the ABC, said to an extent, his Government was carrying on the view that East Timor was not viable as an independent state.[10] Additionally, there were initial fears of a possible Communist government being installed in East Timor by the Timorese, after the withdrawal of the Portuguese. This saw the Whitlam Government look favourably upon Indonesian annexation, and Whitlam expressed this desire to Suharto in a visit to him in 1974.[11]
You should be praising John Howard not trying to divert the topic to stealing gas.
It was your party that gave away East Timor. It was John Howard who sent in the troops and got their independence.
It was John Howard who sent in the troops and got their independence.
And attempted to steal gas income from a third world country!
FFS! Kneel!
And attempted to steal gas income from a third world country!
FFS! Kneel!
Thank you for proving me right.
You do not condemn Whitlam/ALP who gave away East Timor. But you condemn John Howard who sent in the troops and got East Timor their independence.
Great news everyone! Things aren’t as bad as we’ve been told.
Evidence here: https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2022/08/Ridd-Record-Coral-GBR.pdf?mc_cid=4682239443&mc_eid=85327a63aa
Great news. Global warming’s a hoax. No need for targets. Approve more mines – NOW!. Bring more coal into Parliament. Resurrect Morrison – all is forgiven. It’s another ‘miracle’. Egg(s) on faces. No need to go nuclear. They’ve been lying to us.
Bolt’s already out of the blocks.
One swallow DOES make a summer. It’s a fact.
And so it goes.
Climate science isn’t science. Once I was true believer in AGW, concerned about the implications of the hockey stick graph, that most iconic of climate scare tactics. Then it turned out that the methodology was so flawed that it could produce a hockey stick graph out of white noise. The lead author of that propaganda paper falsely claimed in court filings (which he had to withdraw) that he had won a Nobel Prize. The stupid cunt was suing a journalist for accurately referring to him has Dr Fraudpants.
If you are scientist with divergent views you risk being hounded out of academic institutions. If you want to review the data of other scientists you will be denied access to it. How very scientific.
If you are concerned about AGW and want to look at the most cost-effective ways of dealing with it you will be denied appointments at two Australian “universities” as Lomberg was.
If scientists and politicians were actually serious about climate change they would have already built their alternative supply of base load power. They haven’t but if they started in the nineties the problem would be solved by now.
Yay! Climate change is over and all those so called “endangered species” are coming back to life too!!
How’s the awesomeness??!!!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-05/baby-boom-endangered-wildlife-cambodia-angkor-wat/101303212
How easy was that …
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/04/floods-storms-heatwaves-direct-product-climate-crisis
So, prove that any gods exist … ’cause if you can, they’re quite incompetent – if – you can prove it … preferably scientifically … ’cause the numbers simply don’t add up … just the deaths …
Is China more “democratic” than the USA? Might depend on how you define it and whom you ask.
Did Australia “steal” gas from ET did Australia use detection devices in ET parliament?
Don’t know. Do you have a link?
Why cannot you give John Howard some credit for sending in the troops no matter what the motive was? OK you say Howard sent in the troops to steal East Timors gas. Fine, at least he sent in the troops.
Your hero Gough Whitlam and Labor gave away East Timor. This from The Guardian
On foreign policy, Whitlam supported some troubling causes. He cosied up to Indonesian dictator General Suharto, and gave his assent to Jakarta’s plans to occupy what was then Portuguese Timor.
Yeah, of course it appears that CCP oversees a vibrant democracy… if you have your head right up Xi Jinping’s arse
Ethnocentrism on display. As well as an inability to comprehend, leading to ‘wild’, pejorative and inaccurate claims about ‘support’ and the like. (You do have your problems – and at any number of levels.)
Also noted is the clear distinction you invariably draw between the CCP (bad) and the Chinese (good) as though that’s a universally useful way to proceed.
Travel to Germany and it’s quite common for guides to speak of NAZIS (bad) as if NAZIS (historically) were not German. And Putin (bad) is not Russian (possibly good).
In return, (and for reasons of factual accuracy), one points out Australians (good) only went to Vietnam and Iraq because of the LIBERALS (bad).
FFS! Kneel!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/07/treaty-confirms-australia-profited-from-timor-leste-oil-and-gas-rights-groups-say
… if you have your head right up Xi Jinping’s arse …
Linque?
MN, I’ve suggested here before that people read Kissinger’s “On China” … gives a pretty good “history” of the political developments in China and how history influences policies in the 21st Century …
I used, an example, in a discussion at home just yesterday imagine if Tasmania decided to become Communist in 1946 … would Australians be comfortable?
Most people are unaware of the Chinese invasion let alone the events after the Nationalists kicked them out … and the Communists returned from hiding in the hills …
TB – Find it hard (stupid) to be ‘black and white’ on most issues – with China/Taiwan definitely in the ‘too hard’ basket. Think it was reckless for Pelosi and self-indulgent to do what she did. And am not alone.
There are consequences. Predictable and predicted.
Those who cling to deontological ethics tend to see ‘issues’ in terms of right/wrong. Don’t appreciate that what might be ‘right’ can also be ‘bad’ and what might be described as ‘wrong’ can also be ‘good’.
Thus ‘lying’ is NOT necessarily ‘wrong’. Telling an untruth (lying) can be ‘good’. Indeed a failure to ‘lie’ might prove to be very bad indeed. And so on.
That sometimes brings to the metaphorical table what is sometimes labelled ‘existential’ or ‘consequential’ ethics. (Not that ‘great powers’ are ever limited by ethical considerations. That’s just for the punters. Plato’s ‘cave dwellers’.)
Think it was reckless for Pelosi and self-indulgent to do what she did. And am not alone.
Before I even watch your links … (😉) … I agree, wholeheartedly. In my “world” she was incompetent at the lowest level as the House Speaker and as third in line – that’s dangerous to all of us!
What on earth did she hope to gain? In fact, she put the Earth at extreme risk … the ignorance is beyond belief …
There will never be a WW IV … there will be no-one left to wage it … it only takes one – oops!
And history may not repeat but it certainly rhymes!
That’s just for the punters. Plato’s ‘cave dwellers’.
In my “real world” … philosophy is an indulgence … politics is an insult … and life knowledge is existence … royalty is a farce … and religion has been/is the greatest cause of wars, poverty, inequality, control and particularly female abuse (oddly enough enabled by females – and never researched …why?).
Simple example – I served a a National Serviceman during the “American War” in Vietnam … when asked what my religion was I said – “agnostic” … my files show … C of E … at the time I was married with a daughter … my NoK – my father, not my wife! … ludicrous “democratic” power … encouraged by – religion.
To top all that, I have NAA evidence that I was “Balloted Out” of NS and a handwritten red line through my name and a notation “now active” … trust government? Offered a substantial bounty to “sign on” at my discharge …
Rant over …
Remember this “pollie”?
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/scandalous-inside-the-three-year-fight-to-obtain-a-single-page-letter-from-federal-police-20220805-p5b7lp.html
“Think it was reckless for Pelosi and self-indulgent to do what she did. And am not alone.”
It is usually reckless to stand up to bullies. And is it reckless to walk out alone in skimpy clothing late at night?
Not stopping Hitler when he took the Sudetenland was reckless. It cost tens of millions of lives. Same with China. Allowing the Chinese annexation of Taiwan will ultimately cost many more lives.
Only one example above aligns with Pelosi’s posturing …
There are two moral principles worth considering:
1. “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, or in the Kantian variation: “act only in accordance with that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it become a universal law”. This rule emphasises equality and that people cannot be just a means to an end.
2. Choose that which produces the greatest good for the greatest number. This is what the Aztec priests thought they were doing when performing human sacrifice.
Pelosi was on a shopping trip. Liken Biden taking his crackhead son to China to further the Biden family business interests, Sleazy Pelosi took to her son to Taiwan. The Pelosi family are brilliant and successful investors and no doubt Pauli Jr will snag a few good deals to bolster the already obscene family fortune.
The US has always needed a war to maintain its weapons industry. China seems to be the next target. China are happily obliging, themselves being no better than America
Meanwhile, Labor has its work cut out, as the the decade of decay unravels to expose how threadbare our services have become.
Bizarre watching the libs berate Labor over fuel prices. Even more so when you know this is ALL their fault
Motorists could have saved $5.9bn in fuel costs over the last six years if Australia had adopted fuel efficiency standards in 2015, according to a new report.
…………..
The report finds that the release of 9m tonnes of carbon dioxide would have been prevented, similar to a year’s worth of emissions from domestic aviation, and that Australia would have needed to import 4,000 megalitres less fuel.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/aug/08/australian-fuel-efficiency-standards-could-have-saved-motorists-59bn-research-shows
Can you spot Lord ToM in this article?
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2022/08/08/qantas-execs-baggage-handlers/
Re:
Indeed! And Nancy (as Speaker) has access to ‘insider info’ that is of particular assistance in share trading. A recent example related to ‘funding’ to be to US ‘chip makers’. Shortages of ‘chips’ wrought havoc on many and varied production lines, including vehicle manufacturing’ in recent years. Hence much assistance provided.
In Australia she would have been in all sorts of trouble but the USA has different rules. Because Pelosi’s ‘dealings’ were disclosed, there were no illegalities. Shakes head.
Re:
John Cadogan’s been on about this for years. Because of this lack (or laxity) of fuel standards, many manufacturers are able to ‘dump’ vehicles/engines in Australia that have been banned elsewhere. Think he’s also connected the practice to donations made.
Re:
Indeed.
Can’t see any change even when we elect a different party. Then again, ‘differences’ are rarely allowed to be an election issue.
Western democracies have no territorial claims on Russia or China.
The CCP has territorial disputes with 17 countries and Russia is clearly expansionist
What’s the problem with western democracies acting with more unity and co-ordination is the face of autocratic expansion?
Re the execs as ‘baggage handlers’ – and the rate of pay, and conditions will be …? Overtime?
No mention of it anywhere. Journalism at its ‘best’ or ‘worst’?
Where to start, MN… 😎
There are no chips in the States! Its fries or nowt! (PS ‘Tis a strange and corrupt place … )
Fuel efficiency has been well known for centuries … the modt efficient engine is still powered by steam (70%) … in the 70’s I was conducting training to carry out emission testing on owners’ vehicles for Nissan for the then Emission Control Standards under the Australian Design Rules for vehicles … WTF happened … ?
US has always needed a war to maintain its weapons industry
Only because the so called “democracy” is controlled by corporations … and we are getting there! They make the treasure at the expense of young soldiers blood … as JL always said … “what if we had a war – and nobody came?”
Can’t see any change even when we elect a different party.
Menzies took us into VN … by the time Whitlam came to a short lived power the war was dying … he immediately took NS from 2 years to 18 months … by ’72 NS was gone. However the childhood relationship continues with the Septic Tanks ad infinitum – as you say no matter what party … 20 fkn years in Afghanistan for what? … 10 years in VN for what?
Our ADF has been used for so many years even they are fooled …
Re the execs as ‘baggage handlers’
Doesn’t say anyone has accepted … in my experience managers ain’t trained in management – and couldn’t find the starter on a forklift let alone operate one!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What’s the problem with western democracies acting with more unity and co-ordination is the face of autocratic expansion?
You may get on with The Minister for War, Water, Finance and Fun, ToM, she keeps asking a similar question … I’ll give you the same answer … World War III (possibly probable) its a spilt second mistake and the World goes … pooof! Or p………………………………
Tonight, we’ll be having lamb chops and corn on the cob cooked on the BBQ … with potato, cauliflower, carrots and brussel sprouts from the kitchen … as we watch a Nordic Noir series on SBS … enjoy your evening. 😎
its a spilt second mistake and the World goes
LOL! What a Freudian! spilt alright! Can’t pick it up! 🙄
Re:
Are Israel’s intentions re: the Gaza Strip the same as China and Taiwan, or Russia and Ukraine?
And that is exactly why (despite all your negativity about it) , it is vital that countries with similar systems and values stand together, rather than be picked off one by one.
Finally you’ve accepted the reality of this.
And that is exactly why (despite all your negativity about it)
Who you talkin’ to, Willis?
An ignorant anti-Semite would say.
In fact the situation is quite the opposite. Russia claims large chunks of Ukraine on the basis of ethnically Russian demographics. Israel did the opposite – it forcibly removed Jewish residents of Gaza in an attempt to make peace with the Palestinians.
Instead of making peace the Palestinians elected Hamas terrorists to lead them. Hamas, driven by its vile religious beliefs, is dedicated to the extermination of the state of Israel.
In WWII, Hitler and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem were allies. The difference now is that the Germans have recanted their murderous ant-Semitism whereas the Palestinians have doubled down on theirs.
The FBI has raided Mar-A-Lago. The deep state is getting desperate.
Re:
So what values are you referring to? And are they at the lived level or just at the verbalised level? Perhaps there are a great many more differences you haven’t considered? And perhaps we have more in common with the other ‘great powers’ than you admit?
You would be aware that:
Then there’s the supposedly similar structures and more importantly the way they’ve evolved. Or are we simply ‘powerless’? Without even ‘influence’? So many issued that might be explored and should. Your ‘reality’ and the way it’s ‘constructed’ is not mine.
Some sage advice from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention:
The FBI has raided Mar-A-Lago
Is it really a raid if the media isn’t informed first though?
It’s hard to know why, I mean, he only orchestrated an attempt to steal the Presidency. Surely all’s fair and all that rot?
The world is lucky the US got involved in the two world wars. The US was instrumental in the defeat of communism in the USSR and Eastern Europe. Communism, an atheist strain of socialism, was responsible for over 100 million deaths in the 20th century.
The US, for all its many failings, is still the best option we’ve got. Better than China or Russia and much better than the dictators club that is the UN.
If Australia does not want an alliance with a great power then it should develop its own nukes and the ability to deliver them accurately anywhere in the world.
Before Trump was president the FBI, at the behest of the Clinton campaign, lied to the court to fraudulently obtain a warrant to spy on Trump. This is the same FBI acting in the service of the Democrats.
The US, for all its many failings, is still the best option we’ve got.
I don’t disagree. Although, as we have seen, we were very close to them not being the best option.
And you still think the Democrats are pulling the strings of the FBI lol
I mean, perhaps, just perhaps, trumP ISN’T the Messiah?
Trump has previously come under scrutiny for his flagrant violations of the Presidential Records Act of 1978 – mandating the preservation of White House documents – but the search for the first time, appears to indicate potential legal jeopardy for Trump over his records practices.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/08/trump-says-fbi-raided-his-mar-a-lago-home
NOT SATIRE!
If you need to ask what are the similar values among western democracies, you’re not very bright
Some sage advice from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention:
It’s becoming obvious to me why I haven’t caught Monkeypox yet 😦
The CDC guidelines would bring a lot of my favourite events to a grinding halt, so to speak.
I also hear that there is talk of the name “Monkeypox” being offensive. The suggestion is that it be renamed Schlong Covid.
Re:
I referred to the lived values. You know that which guides/drives/displays their behavior on a day to day basis. Not what they say (espouse) but what they do (live). What sent them to Vietnam and Iraq (two examples only).
In Australia, we have a US-centric media which has no apparent understanding or appreciation that US, UK, Australian and Japanese warships patrolling off the Chinese coast (part of the One China geographic region) reminds them of earlier Western gunboat diplomacy and a century of humiliation.
When you next visit China, go to The Bund (or Waitan) which is a waterfront area and a protected historical district in central Shanghai. Listen to the guides who will point out the humiliation suffered by the Chinese in their own country at that time. Then there’s the Rape of Nanjing.
And when you next visit Russia, listen to tales re the deaths of 27 million people (greater than Australia’s current population) on the Russian side at the hands of the Germans and then you might realise why they don’t want NATO missiles on their border.
Maybe then you’ll appreciate what ‘lived’ values are all about. And why Putin’s actions meet with local approval.
Just trying to be fair and balanced.
You look for every possible reason to brown nose to expansionist autocratic regimes, you try to excuse/contextualise their brutality in a way you would condemn in the west.
You ridicule efforts of smaller countries to maintain alliances that will assist to deter the encroachment of brutal regimes
You play a “look over there” game to diminish brutality
You obfuscate about things as simple as countries with shared values sharing a common interest in maintaining their values.
And in the tradition of being ‘fair and balanced’ – try this.
By the way, it would seem that the QANTAS execs aren’t being paid at going rate. Will he come out of hiding and do some volunteering? Set an example and all that. And if he does, will he depart with the TVs, and the background nodders?
ToM – still waiting for you to identify these shared (lived) values that are somehow unique to the USA and Australia and not to be found in the Nations populated by groups not to your liking.
Come on – for a person with your (implied) superior intellect it should be a breeze.
Re: (your current favourite)
Would NATO fit that description? If not, then why not?
Hilarious
Did you notice that countries voluntarily join NATO? And countries that were formerly neutral choose to join?
Every former Warsaw Pact country now opposes Russia. Do you think they’re all wrong or acting out of a sense of self interest/preservation?
Would you believe China is doing what the USA once did?
Isn’t history mind blowing?
And when you next visit Russia, listen to tales re the deaths of 27 million people (greater than Australia’s current population) on the Russian side at the hands of the Germans and then you might realise why they don’t want NATO missiles on their border.
1. Russia actually won WW11 by defeating the SS and Wehrmacht on Russian soil at an enormous cost ie 27 million … (the Battle of Britain helped earlier) …
2. Having “missiles on the border” is 1950/60’s Cold War a fallacy …
If you think Russia is the only country playing propaganda here … think again … it works on both sides.
I have it on good authority that the British civilians looked forward to listening to Lord Haw Haw during WWII.
And do some research on VN, Iraq, Afghanistan propaganda … ain’t no rules once the bullets start to fly … and any strategic plans go up in smoke – with the first round – ask Putin …
“It’s becoming obvious to me why I haven’t caught Monkeypox yet”
Is it your latex fetish that protects you or your mastery of masturbation at six paces?
Is it your latex fetish that protects you or your mastery of masturbation at six paces?
Yes 😉
More latex here too
The FBI defrauded the court to get a warrant to spy on Trump before he was elected and again after he took office as president. Four times in all.
So much for being allied with the USA …
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/10/the-us-let-him-go-free-release-of-terrorist-who-killed-unarmed-australian-soldiers-shows-contempt-for-ally-family-says
LOL! Great (must) read …
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/09/donald-trump-fbi-mar-a-lago-president
If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear … shimples
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/obscure-law-might-explain-why-fbi-raided-donald-trumps-home-at-maralago/news-story/f5932dc8c9480994ba92a40219f371a0
The FBI defrauded the court to get a warrant to spy on Trump
?
I truly don’t understand duttons game. Is irrelevance his ultimate goal?
Potatoes have no brains … and very thin skins …
FISA Court chief judge releases 4-page scathing rebuke of Obama’s FBI for defrauding court
IN RE ACCURACY CONCERNS REGARDING
FBI MATTERS SUBMITTED TO THE FISC
Oh! Dear, meat and potatoes …
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/eat/peter-dutton-snapped-eating-dagwood-dog-while-at-ekka/news-story/afa635f09ac4496ab594331407c0cc1c
If anyone is interested …
https://www.factcheck.org/2022/08/qa-on-the-fbis-search-of-trumps-mar-a-lago-home/
In Australia, archivists, even at the State level, take their role very seriously. They don’t care about the immediate political consequences, their eyes are always for the long term.
Sometimes, Ministers when reading ‘briefing papers’, Cabinet submissions etc might write in the margin(s) – What the fu** does this mean? Or something similar. Seemingly unaware that their petulant outburst will be forever on the historical record.
More prudent Ministers make their comments on post-it notes which can then be rescued from what is then an Official document as the subsequent briefing proceeds.
Strictly speaking, it’s not supposed to happen. It’s illegal. Any document generated is supposed to be an official document (including the post-it notes) which might be released almost immediately under FOI etc.
As TB’s link explains, it’s not an offense to be taken lightly both in the USA, Australia and elsewhere. Can’t rewrite. Serious consequences.
(Ironic that the Head of the FBI – appointed by Trump – is now accused of being part of the ‘deep state’. Hilarious.)
While Dutton (Leader of the Libs) won’t attend the Jobs and Skills Summit , Littleproud (Leader of the Nats) said he would BUT he wasn’t invited.
Presumably, the invite will now be in the mail.
So Dutton is the political novice with Littleproud to get the daily media spotlight. A mistake!
In the next election the ban on three-cornered contests ends in (traditional) ‘conservative’ seats without a sitting member. Can only benefit the Nats.
Meat and one veg TB 😉
Presumably, the invite will now be in the mail.
I hope so (… but … I don’t like Littleproud because of his damage to the Murray Darling but then so so many entities to dislike because of the MD … at least Cubby Stn is now owned by MACQUARIE Infrastructure and Real Assets (MIRA) … but that is small comfort … just as “grabbing” as Shandong Ruyi (Ruyi) …
Oddly enough I thinl Littleproud could be a very effective operator if he worked for Australians …
Meat and one veg TB 😉
Bloody hell! TR … got it in one! 🙄😎
“Oddly enough I thinl Littleproud …”
Chuckle – where’s K again? Fat finger syndrome … and that’s not all!
Oh! FFS!
Donald Trump’s legal team has floated an explosive theory, sensationally claiming the FBI may have “planted” incriminating evidence at the former president’s residence.
Paranoid or what!
Mike Scrafton argues that Australia is now (effectively) the 51st State of the USA.
“The Australia-US Ministerial Consultations (AUSMIN) joint statement records Australia’s surreptitious accession as the 51st state of the Union. That it has been done without a vote, or even a serious national or parliamentary debate, highlights the accompanying loss of democracy.
Australia has effectively surrendered its right to say what kinds of military platforms and weapons can be brought on to, or stationed in, its territory.”
Perhaps we are now a ‘guided democracy’ with the USA now effectively driving the ‘political bus’. So much for ‘sovereignty’.
https://johnmenadue.com/ausmin-and-aukusits-even-worse-than-you-think/
TB – re Littleproud.
Some years ago David Littleproud’s father (Brian) was the Principal of a very small school on the Downs. He was also a grazier of sorts with a very modest herd of cattle.
The school was visited by an Inspector who advised Brian that he couldn’t be both a Principal and a grazier. He had to choose. So he did. Ran for Parliament and soon became Minister for Education and therefore the Inspector’s boss.
Both ‘dined out’ on the story for years.
Dissent in Russia…
The home of a former state TV journalist who quit after making an on-air protest against Moscow’s war in Ukraine was raided by Russian authorities Wednesday.
A criminal case against Marina Ovsyannikova was also launched on the charge of spreading false information about the Russian armed forces, her lawyer said on social media.
The case was launched under a law, enacted after the Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine, that penalizes statements against the military, lawyer Dmitry Zakhvatov said. A conviction is punishable by up to 15 years in prison.
“Paranoid or what!”`
Because the FBI would never do anything like that to get at Trump would they? Oh wait they already have:
Finally, thank fcuk for that. Just how many squillions did team-spite blow persecuting these poor folks and using the system to engage in child abuse.`
Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Haw! Great Comedy MN.`
‘ Did you notice that countries voluntarily join NATO? ‘
Did they. Or did yankeeland entice/ leverage them. Did you notice nato sleep walked into the crimea-2013 wreckage, or were you too busy sock-cucking the mh17 boardroom. Did you notice that theRealdeal had nato’s number long ago, and theRealdeal merely sticky taped the nato chook shed door closed, leaving them inside clucking ever since.`
Australia has been
headingblundering down the path to becoming the 51st state of the US of A for sometime … this is what to expect!Read on …
https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/entire-starbucks-team-walks-out-during-shift-after-manager-fires-union-leader/news-story/f39cc5e840f4224699ad1253ccc23bb3
Chuckle …
“51st state”
You’re full of it
Now that the deep state is flexing its nuts it is getting another 87,000 IRS agents to “serve” the people. Job requirements include carrying a firearm and a willingness to use deadly force:
Let’s hope the ATO doesn’t get any ideas.
‘Be willing to use deadly force, if necessary’
You sound surprised, splats … its the fkn USA!
But we do import all their other shit why not that … we could be the deep state in the deep South Pacific … or just the 51st State of the Union (union? FFS!)
You’re full of it …
Interesting life knowledge and experience that I share especially to help you through life, ToM?
Or links to so many interesting articles … you’d never find without my links …
BTW, have you found an eReader yet? I suggest a Kobo for good value and features …
I’m still reading ebooks that kittylitter (remember KL?) sent me on a disk – over 3,000 FREE!
its the fkn USA!
I know right, deadly force is where they start at ffs lol
I see the deep state is … what trump created? Hillary must be pissing herself atm
I’m sure friendly jordies would step in and offer some details for them 🙂
These bozzos fold like paper envelopes when their corrupt machinations finally get exposed.
Being publicly exposed as a conniving lying venal snake on the make might impact your health. He’s probably on suicide watch.
Note Kissinger’s warning:
The US has also invaded or bombed dozen of countries and supported nearly every single right-wing dictatorship in the world since the end of World War II. It has overthrown or attempted to overthrow dozens of foreign governments since 1949 and has actively sought to crush nearly every single people’s liberation movement over that same period. It has also meddled in scores of elections, in countries that are allies and adversaries alike.
With that in mind, it’s little wonder that nations join up of their own accord. Lol.
Being publicly exposed as a conniving lying venal snake on the make might impact your health.
Sorry, which post were you referring to? 😉
Sorry, which post were you referring to? 😉
Surely this one … 😊
I see the deep state is … what trump created? or <
Barilaro. But on the other hand:
Sounds like FBI Director, Chris Wray. The arrogant fuck ran off early from his Senate hearing saying he had a plane to catch. He didn’t mention that the plane was his government-funded private jet flying His Lordship to his holiday retreat. Congressional oversight be damned.
The arrogant fuck
Given who appointed him, what more would you expect?
* 51st state
* Guided democracy
…what a lot of crap
…what a lot of crap
ToM is this you?
He didn’t mention that the plane was his government-funded private jet flying His Lordship to his holiday retreat.
WTF is “guided democracy”?
Guided Democracy (Indonesian: Demokrasi Terpimpin) was the political system in place in Indonesia from 1959 until the New Order began in 1966. It was the brainchild of President Sukarno, and was an attempt to bring about political stability.
As an aspirant State of the USA, perhaps we should adopt (and then adapt) the very potent mantra of yore. “No taxation without representation” might become
“No new wars without public consultation”. Giving teeth to democracy.
TomR
I do not get it? Why the witch hunt against Barilaro?
I do not remember you posting anything against the much more corrupt politicians in the Carr ALP NSW government.
Why the witch hunt against Barilaro
It’s not a witch hunt. IT’S A STALKING!! 🙂
TomR
You did not answer my question.
Why didn’t you and “””friendly leftie””” post anything against the much more corrupt Carr ALP NSW govt??
Did you know that John Howard described Donald Trump’s behaviour as ‘appalling’ and ‘atrocious’ for not accepting the outcome of the 2020 US presidential election and therefore not fit for future office.
Isn’t America a ‘democracy’? That it’s for US citizens to ‘decide’. Or is he suggesting that as citizens in the 51st State we too should have A VOICE …
But not sure whether he’s helping, hindering or there for comedic relief.
Welcome to the 51st State
https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/mcdonalds-hit-with-250-million-wage-theft-claim-over-rest-break-entitlements/news-story/19fa88d5516512165e11576828f9ea4a
Negative Gearing HAS to go!
Even economists are now calling for it!
https://www.theage.com.au/property/news/why-the-cost-of-negative-gearing-tax-breaks-is-likely-to-rise-20220810-p5b8qh.html
Give the NG tax break to first home buyers!
TB from your linked article:
After that conceptual confusion, some clarity from the Grattan Institute ;
Conflating taxpayers such as BHP, (the largest Australian taxpayer), the big 4 Banks, Miners, Retailers, etc with Citizens – the rightful owners and electors of the government – has long-term effects.
It’s not necessary to be a Taxpayer to be a voting Citizen. Indeed the biggest taxpayers aren’t. While all Taxpayers are not equal, all Citizens are (when it comes to the franchise.)
But as Georg Simmel points out:
Perhaps the actual enemy can be found by looking in the mirror?
https://www.waggish.org/2016/georg-simmels-philosophy-of-money-5/
Did you know that John Howard described Donald Trump’s behaviour as ‘appalling’ and ‘atrocious’ for not accepting the outcome of the 2020 US presidential election and therefore not fit for future office.
Well if Howard did say that he may be right. Trump should have accepted the result of the election. If he had any problems with the results he could have followed it up when he lost office.
Trouble with comments by Howard is that people twist his words. I am still waiting MN for a link that say the Howard would say nothing after he lost office.
MN- you come from the side of politics that twists people words. I would really like to see a like where Howard said he would say nothing when he lost office.
Please provide me with that link.
Why didn’t you and “””friendly leftie””” post anything against the much more corrupt Carr ALP NSW govt??
I’m pretty sure friendly was still in school back then, and, at the time, I had no interest in other states politics
Of course, this means that what is happening is fine I assume?
MN
I did read you’re links … enlightening but not convincing (I do love the innocence of philosophy) … human beings have always been a commodity … and controlled … no matter what economic system (usually coupled to a political dogma) we live and work under.
As I’m sure you are aware, the original European tax (demanded by the Pope!) was for England and France to wage war in Palestine (oh, the irony of the 21st Century – now it Isreal) …
Taxes have always been squandered on pointless religious wars (VN is one in point!) or political gain for, The Robber Barons, (eg East Timor – Ukraine) and individuals pay the price … not corporations – they profit from the “little” folk who pay with blood, anguish, treasure … not the CEO’s, or politician’s, or public servants … the Australian troops – sent to war and ignored when they return … it has always been …
Could you clarify … Perhaps the actual enemy can be found by looking in the mirror?
As for “indistinguishable in number” … another time …
What has corporate tax to do with giving new home buyers an “equal” chance and removing an enticement for investors to look elsewhere … a home is not an investment it is a home … and tiny suburban boxes is no place to grow children … this nation will only survive if its children do and they are educated and healthy … and well housed … with access to a decent backyard!
George Simmel … mmm … just had to look him up … Jewish family converted to Catholicism (father) and Methodist (mother) … left a fortune by “stepfather” spent his life “studying” …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Simmel#Early_life_and_education
G’night! Chuckle …
BTW, Negative gearing has to go! Give the kids a break! Not the rich pricks! Again …..
“the original European tax (demanded by the Pope!) was for England and France to wage war in Palestine (oh, the irony of the 21st Century – now it Isreal)”
Like so much else, TB, you are abjectly, ridiculously wrong on this. Not that you will admit it, of course.
Before currency existed taxation in kind was prevalent in Europe. As soon as coinage was invented the Greek city states imposed taxes:
Of course the Romans imposed taxation from the time of the Republic onwards:
And you being a Pom and all, I’m surprised that you haven’t heard of the Danegeld:
As you can see from the above references, taxation was pervasive in Europe long before Christianity existed. But not according to you – the “original European tax [was] demanded by the Pope”. Your bigotry and anti-Semitism have blinded you to facts, sense and reason. Your hate-filled heart has produced this latest fevered outburst, ignoring history so you can bash the Jews and Catlicks. You really can’t get more idiotic than that.
TB, if you can dial back your racist and religious bigotry you might make more sense and be less prone to rewriting history to suit your irrational prejudices.
If you really wanted to attack vile religious beliefs you cold spare a minute to condemn the human filth that believe that anyone criticises their paedophile prophet deserves to die:
Our previous Parliament really was a joke. And now it looks like a full blown constitutional crisis may unfold
“the cabinet model we’ve had in Australia for well over 100 years”
Didn’t Whitlam have a two-man cabinet? A duumvirate with Lance Barnard:
Whitlam was:
• Prime Minister
• Leader of the Labor Party
• Minister for Foreign Affairs
• Treasurer
• Attorney-General
• Minister for Customs and Excise
• Minister for Trade and Industry
• Minister for Shipping and Transport
• Minister for Education and Science
• Minister for Civil Aviation
• Minister for Housing
• Minister for Works
• Minister for External Territories
• Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts
Barnard:
• Deputy Prime Minister
• Deputy Leader of the Labor Party
• Minister for Defence
• Minister for Supply
• Minister for the Army
• Minister for the Navy
• Minister for Air
• Postmaster-General
• Minister for Labour and National Service
• Minister for Social Services
• Minister for Immigration
• Minister for the Interior
• Minister for Primary Industry
• Minister for Repatriation
• Minister for Health
• Minister for National Development
Didn’t Whitlam have a two-man cabinet?
But no Ministry had two ministers (seems impossible to achieve going on some ‘experts’), and it was publicly announced.
It’s very common for Ministers to hold more than one ministry (yes, Whitlams Was extreme), but it is perfectly legal, in a constitutional sense
In Australia, for Ministers – there is an Oath of Office :
But perhaps Morrison’s Oath was to an Authority on High? If so, then at least it would align with his stated beliefs.
Says much about our claims to be a Sovereign Nation.
Then there’s this from the diplomatic ranks re China and where we fit in:
But perhaps Deputy Sheriffs(s) are not there to speak but be spoken to and for. Farcical!
Re: – love the innocence of philosophy . TB – we are all philosophers of one kind or other and on that there’s much agreement:
lol,
Straya – Constitutional Crisis
Splats – Look. Over There, ‘merica is having a wardrobe malfunction
Can’t understand that why Republicans decry institution authorities they’ve created, they can’t see the irony in thanking their God.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/taxation
Sources here, sources there, ’tis simple now to find ’em everywhere … )
Oh, hum … insults … never enhance a “scholarly” rant …
Re: – “love the innocence of philosophy” . TB – we are all philosophers of one kind or other and on that there’s much agreement:
Thus philosphising is part of everyday life.
Can’t disagree with any of that … 😎
Can’t understand that while Republicans decry institution authorities they’ve created, they can’t see the irony in thanking their God.
“Sources here, sources there, ’tis simple now to find ’em everywhere … )”
Shame you didn’t read your own source before putting it about that “the original European tax (demanded by the Pope!) was for England and France to wage war in Palestine”. Your link makes perfectly clear that your statement was wrong. It lists plenty of taxes imposed before “the original European tax”.
Why can’t you just admit that you got that one wrong? Everyone makes mistakes. The stupid among us can’t ever bring themselves to admit it. Which is why they never learn.
“Look. Over There, ‘merica is having a wardrobe malfunction”
“Straya – Constitutional Crisis”
Is it really? The crisis is over. Morrison, the prize idiot, has been booted. His catalogue of idiocy and impropriety will no doubt grow as we look into his conduct. I still have hope that Albo may be an improvement.
🙂
The crisis is over.
For morrison, it’s just beginning. He has ‘Questions to Answer”
Like, is this the reason he protected the alleged rapist from scrutiny?
Is this why he protected alleged rapes within a stones throw of his office?
Is this why no-one order vaccines, because each thought the other was ordering
And does this mean that anything associated with any of those Ministries is now legally questionable?
While there is no obvious constitutional crisis, the ‘political’ waves will probably be short lived as well. More significant, and of longer term politically, will be Josh Butler and Sarah Martin’s naming the Albo’s department secretary as Glyn Davies when his correct name is Glyn Davis.
No future ‘drops’ for that pair. Lol.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/aug/15/anthony-albanese-seeks-legal-advice-over-reports-scott-morrison-secretly-swore-himself-into-ministry-roles
Much ado re Constitutional matters on tonight’s The Drum. But one wonders how many politicians have actually read the Australian Constitution let alone understand same. And remember, for the average punter, ‘Ignorance of the Law’ is never an excuse.
Then again – politicians are there to MAKE the law, not to UNDERSTAND it and certainly not there to OBEY it.
And back to Morrison and his directive to public servants – Your role is NOT to provide advice but to implement government policy.
Be interested to see how Glyn Davis can change that nonsense.
Why can’t you just admit that you got that one wrong?
Yes you’re right
I see the Deep South is in more trouble that the Shallow North …
Just where is Lord ToM holidaying? ahhh the libraries are open … I admire self learing … (whoo -ps- ) 😎
Scrabble, scrabble … 🙄
And from our Entertainment Department:
We watched – “13 Lives” – last night directed by Ron Howard, and what brilliant directing (as usual) …
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ — ⭐
So Morrison had no confidence in Pitt? Who could blame him for that?
Effectively, Morrison had no say in the matter because Pitt was Barnaby’s choice under the agreement he had with the Nats. And Pitt’s party vote was essential in Barnaby’s re-election as Leader.
Yes you’re right
🙂
To-night’s unrealizable but ideal dream for Morrison:
“FUCK THAT – I’M OFF TO NEW YORK!”
Is the much lauded ‘representative democracy’ the best form of government we can devise? You know – where a person who thinks that 2 + 2 = 5 is afforded the same voting ‘power’ as … (Take your pick)
And they do. The result is Pauline Hanson who thinks – there’s old mathematics and then there’s new mathematics (old school).
Have some sympathy for the Governor-General, because he’s cursed if he does and cursed if he doesn’t.
A former, incoming Premier of Queensland told the Governor that his job was to sign documents – regardless of whether he understood them or not. Accordingly, Executive Council meetings were reduced from 2 hours (approx) to about 15 minutes on a busy day.
Kerr was pilloried because he dismissed an elected PM. Little wonder that the current GG went along with Morrison’s ‘requests’.
Best if we get rid of this crap altogether and become a Republic.
Queenslanders can be very vengeful:
As close as we’ve come to a “diktat” …
So, Trump, Johnson and Morrison Triumvirate named – AUKUS? FFS!
Players in a “Roman” epic? All they needed was a war!
Sickening … as for the G-G – a repeat performance from the Palace?
Time for a new:
◾ Constitution
◾ Head of State
◾ Flag
◾ National Anthem
And a return to the egalitarian, secular approach to governance …
All they needed was a war!
Oh, and didn’t they work hard for that.
So hard that our deaR leaDer couldn’t remember what else was going on
It is not an accident that idiotic green policies result in soaring energy costs and lower food production. World-class wanker, Yuval Noah Harari, explains: “We just don’t need the vast majority of the population”
“Yes you’re right”
Yes. You are stupid.
Yes. You’re right.
I know.
I wonder if this will become an issue also, in addition to the legality of decisions made?
Updated Covid numbers
From the Mordoc Press …
Get rid of it before it taints the Libs even more than they are … it’s like a bad smell …
https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/timeline-shows-scott-morrison-held-five-secret-portfolios-in-14-months/news-story/5f27b40fcc40577b42a51e5128a9de01
Get rid of it before it taints the Libs even more than they are
The number of Ministers who were unaware of this would be close to zero. The number who have lied would be all who have denied knowledge
Morrison should stay – God willing.
No wonder he advised NOT to trust government. Had inside information all along.
LOL! MN …
TR, incompetent or lying either way in the real world they would be FIRED!
Not just moved … TERMINATED your services are no longer required …
Isn’t “misleading the House” an offence to be called to the Bar?
Brisbane came second
https://www.news.com.au/travel/destinations/the-ugliest-city-in-the-world-revealed-as-charleroi-belgium/news-story/e43d8c0ecf807d4e28eb79182b55c74d
Suspect (know?) there’s much more wrong with ‘government’ in Australia that goes far beyond the current nonsense. (Mostly an irrelevant distraction.)
Morrison (the PM) was never popularly elected to the Nation’s most powerful Office and yet he decided what the legislative agenda would be and who would populate the Executive Branch.
Not convinced that ‘democracy’ is the best form of government but do know we haven’t given it a serious try.
Yeah, I’m sure you’d prefer a guided democracy, as long as you’re part of the club doing the guiding
Yeah, I’m sure you’d prefer a guided democracy, as long as you’re part of the club doing the guiding
Diktator
Dan..scott?Speaking on 2GB earlier, Morrison said he needed to be sworn in to the portfolio to legally overrule Pitt.
“This was a very important issue. It was one that I sought … to be the decision maker on that issue because of its importance,” he said.
“The minister makes their own decision. And the prime minister can’t direct the minister to make a decision.
“And so, in that case, I thought it was important as the prime minister to ensure that I was exercising my responsibility to ensure that decisions would be done in the appropriate way.”
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/australia-news-live-anthony-albanese-accuses-former-pm-scott-morrison-of-running-shadow-government-new-documents-in-nsw-trade-saga-20220815-p5ba1g.html?post=p541o7
It was only ever about power, his power, to do as he wished. And there needs to be consequences to such a blatant grab for it
Scott Morrison….
they/them.
The Minister for War, Water, Finance & Fun … asked me an interesting question last night …
Did Snotty collect the “ministers’ ” pay checks too? Da – da da da – dummm …
I don’t have a Twitter A/C but I do enjoy some of the Tweets …
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/aug/16/job-lot-internet-gets-to-work-on-scott-morrisons-multiple-ministries-mayhem
Did Snotty collect the “ministers’ ” pay checks too?
Apparently Ministers are paid for the job of Minister, not Ministries. Many Ministers have held multiple Ministries, and their pay remains the same
This was about power, and doing whatever he wanted, like a typical megalomaniac would
I sought … to be the decision maker
KRudd thought just swearing at them was enough, but morrison took it to another level.
But, TR, is Snotty also an undercover Minister at his church, I wonder?
At least we know where “we don’t believe in governments” came from … 😎
Apparently Ministers are paid for the job of Minister, not Ministries.
Do you have a link for that … just in case Good Lord! ToM! turns up. 😎
Morrison claims to have acted with good intentions.
So isn’t that enough? As a religious person he knows right from wrong so why not let the matter pass?
Or should we take outcomes into account?
The intentions of the inebriated at accidents are usually dismissed rather quickly. Aren’t they? Perhaps he could claim – the Devil made me do it? Jen would believe him!
After all he’s offered many an explanation.
Morrison claims to have acted with good intentions.
So isn’t that enough?
Don’t know. But is that not our form of govt? We elect these people and give them the power to act on our behalf. We do not know the problems he was faced with.
But during a stressful time did ScoMo do the wrong thing? Perhaps. Most probably.
But ALP supporters just like throwing mud and using stuff ups for political purposes. I am sure if a ALP Prime Minister did the same thing it would not be an issue.
Governments across the world ‘operate’ within known, written, legal boundaries that are enforceable. And they are also guided by non-legal rules called “conventions”.
Trump acted (frequently) with blatant disregard of conventions. He wasn’t the first President to do that but his wanton disregard set a new (low) standard.
Not surprised that Morrison followed that path. Clearly he didn’t trust government. His felt obligations were (and are) to another, higher ‘power’.
It was indeed another Miracle that he wasn’t detected.
Not surprised that Morrison followed that path. Clearly he didn’t trust government.
I don’t trust govt either. Furthermore i especially do not trust ALP govts and supporters.
So what is your point? Looks like Morrison under stress overlooked one convention. But since you come from the side of politics that deceives people i distrust your motives. Perhaps we should wait until the full story comes out?
Looks like Morrison under stress overlooked one convention.
Five times …
I’m still trying to figure out what his hidden agenda was/is …
51
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/18/the-far-right-disinformation-pipeline-that-now-spans-the-globe-goes-straight-from-trumpland-to-australia
RE:
Turnbull was on the money when he said that Morrison was a ‘control freak’. But it’s ‘useful’ to dig deeper to get a better picture – all the way back to Joh if you like.
When Joh was Premier, one of his favorite tactics was to ‘ambush’ his Cabinet colleagues with an ’emergency’ submission to Cabinet when it was already under way. Thus they had no means and no time/opportunity to get expert departmental advice on the implications of of Joh’s ‘late’ Cabinet submission(s). Thus many bad decisions made – some/many of which were beneficial to Joh’s personal interests.
When Wayne Goss was elected, Kevin Rudd was his chief adviser who eventually headed the Department of Premier and Cabinet. Rudd (and Goss) too were also control freaks. Rudd appointed a CLLO (Cabinet, Legislation and Liaison Officer) in every Department who reported directly to him. (The CEOs hated it but in theory Rudd won the day.)
There were to be NO late Submissions to Cabinet. Indeed, each CLLO was to notify well in advance (at least 3 weeks) any proposed cabinet submission. This gave Rudd, and his staff, the opportunity to ‘kill’ or at least modify any proposals if it wasn’t to his liking. Ministers and CEOs hated it but Rudd through Goss had the power.
Goss also had a ‘kitchen Cabinet’ (Goss, Rudd, Tom Burns – Deputy Premier and Keith de Lacy – Treasurer) who met before the actual Cabinet and made the ‘real’ decisions for the actual Cabinet to ‘rubber stamp’. (It was this model that Rudd took to Canberra. There were no CLLOs in Canberra but there was still a ‘kitchen cabinet’ – again much to the hatred of other Ministers and CEOs.) Indeed many Queensland locals ‘in the know’ were completely surprised when Rudd and his control freak tendencies ever became PM. Plenty of ‘head shaking’.
But Rudd and his methods had at least one fervent admirer. A woman named Peta Credlin. While Abbott was free to go for bike rides she too didn’t want any Cabinet ‘ambushes’ or ‘surprises’. Rudd’s approaches weren’t abandoned but reinforced. Again she was hated.
Enter Morrison – stage right. He took the ‘control freak’ to a new level. Seems (I don’t know) he could, if he so wanted, surprise his colleagues with late submissions from any number of departments. He had the power. Seems like he didn’t have to use it (but who knows at this point if he did).
Confident that more ‘confessions’ will come at a later date when some dots are connected. (Ain’t history wonderful.)
(but who knows at this point if he did)
Going over the entrails will be interesting. Firstly, finding out the legality first, but even then, as has been mentioned, much of Government is run on convention, not legality.
People have been wondering who it was who let the Ruby Princess in, as morrison made himself minister a week before that.
Also, giving $Billions to profitable companies. Everyone assumed freudemburgh was just really stupid, but that also has morrisons stench about it.
Interesting times ahead indeed.
I’m still trying to figure out what his hidden agenda was/is …
Maybe the stress got to him?
Current Head of Treasury is Stephen Kennedy.
Rudd took the advice of Ken Henry in a previous economic ‘crisis’ so Kennedy (working for Rudd at that time) was experienced in such matters. Knows Chalmers et al very well.
But there’s ‘economic’ advice (Go hard and go early was from Ken Henry) and then there’s ‘political advice’. The decision NOT to ‘claw back’ the excess dollars came from the political world. (Read Scott and Josh.)
https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/new-treasury-boss-a-nurse-turned-economist-20190725-p52asm
Further, Morrison attends a Pentecostal Church that preaches the Prosperity Gospel. /em> So it’s God that determines your economic fate – donate now.
Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s Morrison’s next calling. Been rehearsing with Margaret Court. Lol.
(Ain’t history wonderful.) Oh, Yeah! Luv it!
You didn’t mention The Minister for Everything? Good ol’ Russ H
As an aside … I’d met, Joh, a couple of times and I happened to walk past him as he waited at the “trial” … the bugger actually gave me a wave!
I kept walking … how the fk did he remember me?
Prosperity Gospel. /em> So it’s God that determines your economic fate – donate now.
Jesus fkn Christ must be spinning on the cross!
Forgive them for they know not what they do … yeah!
Maybe the stress got to him?
lol nil, yor getting the hang of satire 😉
this will go through to the next election at this rate (nice 🙂 )
That the GG ’caused’ many dollars to go to a particular charity might be worth a second look. Certainly a potential conflict of interest.
Calls for the Role(s) of the (unelected) Governor-General to be clarified. Nonsense! It’s time for the position to be abolished, but that’s not going to happen without a new Constitution and that’s an impossibility.
Isn’t our ‘democracy’ grand.
Certainly a potential conflict of interest.
At the very least. I do hope albo doesn’t pull a rudd and just let these things go. Look under every rock, and hit them with every consequence they can face. Call it the Robodebt slingshot.
Yes, ‘politically’, Albo should keep this on the boil.
An ‘inquiry’ of sorts is essential. Make it an all-party effort. Give the Teals, the Greens, the Independents et al the opportunity to sink their fangs. Have it televised. Call Simon Benson and any others who ‘knew’. Need to know, the when, where, how and why.
Go for the full ‘beat-up’.
As an aside, Joyce is about to get more publicity
https://michaelwest.com.au/joyce-is-spoiling-for-a-fight-with-unions-pity-about-qantas-customers/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=2022-08-18&utm_campaign=Today+s+news+from+Michael+West+Media
So unAustralian. So much baggage to be carried.
So much baggage to be carried.
We’re going to need a bigger luggage compartment
I might visit Bali in November and take the opportunity to spit at Putin, as all decent people will
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2022/08/19/xi-putin-attend-g20-indonesia/
Speaking of those we (rightly) love to despise.
Presumably there was plenty of (lost) luggage lying around to stand on. Lol
Big question(s) these days – Will my flight be JOYCED? Or will my luggage be JOYCED?
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/passengers-left-in-dark-as-business-lounge-announcements-are-paused-for-qantas-ceo-alan-joyce-to-film-promotional-video/news-story/02aef2aaba91d5824857a68d4a16bf62
But there’s ‘economic’ advice (Go hard and go early was from Ken Henry) and then there’s ‘political advice’.
I read somewhere that Henry gave that advice because he said the govt/Treasury was too slow to act during Keatings recession in the early 1990s making the recession even worse. So they spent much quicker this time during the GFC.
We now have $1T of govt debt caused by Labor. If only we had Howard/Costello during the GFC. We would not have stimulus spent and not have so much debt
😲🙃🙄🙄😪🤑🤑
Barnaby Joyce was Deputy Prime Minister, a member of Cabinet (Head of the Executive Branch) in Australia’s ‘democracy’ and yet never faced an election to any such positions from the Citizens as a whole. Hilarious!
as all decent people will
Yes, all decent people go to Bali. 😯 ❓
nil, yor an idiot
barny, yor a nil
“Welcome to the show Barny”
“yor welcome”
what a dick
Message from Alan Joyce to Good Lord! ToM!
Hey, Al! Find another fucking job! The Russian Consulate is seeking propaganda experts – apply now!
nil, yor an idiot
I doubt Costello would have stimulus spent during the GFC. IN fact he said he would have let the automatic stabilisers do their work (whatever that means).
But the people who believe in deficit spending have been in control since 2007. Amazing how quickly things can change. We went from zero govt debt to $1T in debt in no time flat.
Bananaby on Insiders … 2:32 – STOP … 15minutes!!! of another Joyce dribbling drivel … he should join his namesake and apply to the Russian Consulate.
Kneel,
Nip down to the Russian Consulate and they will welcome you … PS don’t mention the Russian scientists …
I remember having a discussion in 2017 in Darwin (over a couple of glasses of wine) with a Chief Petty Officer, the people that really run the Navy, and I brought up the subject of drone submarines … she laughed and said, “we were talking about that in the mess yesterday” … they had reached the same conclusion as I had … drones could be far more effective and cheaper than manned boats …
Lo and behold!
They eventually catch up!
Hallelujah!
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/radical-plan-to-build-killer-robotoc-submarines-in-sydney-australia/news-story/cc52ba55d0b47c678251e4995c3df0cd
And if you think the Green Machine isn’t up with tech …
https://www.army-technology.com/news/new-electric-bushmaster-keep-adf-future-ready/
BTW The Bushmaster is manufactured by an Australian company in Bendigo …
But the people who believe in deficit spending have been in control since 2007
This mob?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/14/good-debt-how-the-coalition-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-deficit
Kneel,
But the people who believe in deficit spending have been in control since 2007
er, no, it was the “economic managers” from 2013 (NINE years ago)
In the last nine years debt has risen from $230 million to $830 million (factor of three)
A tip, stop listening to 2GB …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_government_debt#Net_government_debt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_federal_elections
Like i said. The people who believe that govt deficit spending is a good thing have been in control since 2007. With lots more deficit spending to come. Isn’t that good?
Deficits are good. In fact Biden has just signed into law the
Green New DealInflation Reduction Act which, now that it has been renamed, will magically reduce inflation.MMT has been a revelation. We need to be more ambitious. A trillion dollar deficit should be our goal, showering untold riches on all Australians.
Deficits depend on how you spend it.
Swan targeted the spending, and made sure the alleged ‘waste’ was minimal (there will always be some, especially when time is more important.)
Freudandburgh/morrison (we still don’t know which one) GAVE $Billions to profitable companies. They Wasted it OUR money, and now, have driven inflation through taxpayer funded profits.
MMT, from what I can read, is just the current system, with more room for borrowing. I would ‘assume’ that its proponents would also have been horrified at the profligate waste displayed by the previous mob. And trying to pay that down will prove to a momentous task, because it’s money that’s just disappeared into the pockets of profits, not back into society at all.
I would ‘assume’ that its proponents would also have been horrified at the profligate waste displayed by the previous mob.
As the graph here shows!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_government_debt#Net_government_debt
I would ‘assume’ that its proponents would also have been horrified at the profligate waste displayed by the previous mob.
Nope. MMTers say gov deficit spending is no problem. As you know TomR i think you get it wrong almost every time. You have totally lost it if you think Labor would have done any different during the pandemic.
And it was Rudd/Swan that started deficit spending and no govt since 2007 has been able to do anything about the deficit. The Coalition tried in May 2014 but even a Medicare payment for visiting the Doctor was howled down by Labor
MMT is nothing like the current system.
They don’t think we should measure debt, they have no ability to identify any negative long term consequences to their policy.
Proponents are no different to snake oil salesmen
MMT is nothing like the current system.
As I said, it depends who you talk to. When I mentioned to some proponents about paying down the debt, they start backtracking to the point where all it is is the current system with larger lending scope. OR, their argument just doesn’t hold up. One of the two
Either way, debt is debt, and, like all debt, it depends both on what you spend it on, and how you maintain it.
You have totally lost it if you think Labor would have done any different during the pandemic.
As my previous post quite obviously highlighted, they DID do it completely different during the GFC crisis. But I understand that with you, the gap between reading and comprehension is an uncrossed ravine
Re:
So what does the ‘current system’ look like – in your opinion? And isn’t the ‘theory’ aspects of MMT about UNDERSTANDING the current system? How it actually works? Rather than advancing a change to the system?
As for:
And the evidence for the extraordinary claim is? A link? Your own words perhaps?
Here’s a view:
Finally, for those who may want to do a bit of thinking.
https://johnquiggin.com/2020/06/01/modern-monetary-theory-neither-modern-nor-monetary-nor-mainly-theoretical/
A mistake to dismiss lightly the ideas and concepts presented in MMT because like any academic pursuit it’s evolving.
LOL!
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/qantas-app-crashes-after-50-flight-discount-offer-goes-live/news-story/a59ed6244ded470b2322d2a75619ea70
… like any academic pursuit it’s evolving.
Economics – an academic pursuit? ‘Tis more a creative scramble …
😎
As my previous post quite obviously highlighted, they DID do it completely different during the GFC crisis
Rudd/Swan/ALP were handed a budget with a $20B surplus. Within 12 months it was a $27B deficit. A $47B turnaround. Net govt debt went from MINUS 3% of GDP ie less than zero to 13% of GDP under Rudd/Swan.
Rudd/Swan even raided the Future Fund during the GFC.
One of the pejorative descriptors often levelled against MMT is that it’s ONLY a theory. And it is a THEORY. Just as our understanding of GRAVITY (even at the highest levels by the most brilliant scientists) is a theory.
So it is with the simplest of things. Everyone, for example, needs a theory of blueness before its possible to count ‘blue’ objects. Before generating any ‘facts’ you begin with a theory. As they say in research – theory is always a priori fact.
Try yourself. Count the gamboge colored objects on your desk or on the beach. Can you do that without having a theory re gamboge ?
There are plenty of mmt proponents that think measuring and tracking debt is an old fashioned paradigm. Follow their articles if you’re that interested.
MMT has moved from an explanation to an economic philosophy over the past decade.
None of the proponents can explain the long term consequences of ever increasing public debt. There’s a “trust it” and “it’s worth the risk” attitude.
GetUp supports it, not because of any evidence, but because they believe the current system doesn’t work, and (more expediently) itmfers them off the hook for having to come up with a way of paying for their proposals
in theoretical terms, MMT offers little in the way of radical innovation. Rather it is a variant of traditional Keynesianism
Thanks for the confirmation and link MN. I haven’t done a lot of actual reading, just answering tweets with people about it.
Follow their articles if you’re that interested.
Which articles? I’m following one MN put me onto (as a hint 😉 )
My understanding of MMT is that you need a sovereign currency for it to work. So MMT will not work for Greece because they have the Euro and not their own currency.
If you have your own sovereign currency like we do then MMTers say deficit spending causes no problems. It is not just deficit spending. We deficit spent from 1972-1996 give or take a few years and nobody said we were doing MMT.
I actually think MMTers do not think govt debt even exits. It is just a keystroke on a computer according to them.
Just as our understanding of GRAVITY (even at the highest levels by the most brilliant scientists) is a theory.
Not a good analogy, MN … just sayin’ … it is a demonstrable energy source … bit like saying, heat is hot, is a theory …
Now hoe we overcome gravity ie anti-gravity will rely on a lot of experimentation … is that just a theory?
Re:
Probably so. As Quiggin points out – there’s lots of ‘proponents’ (both academic and lay) that operate under the MMT banner. (All sorts of jokes to that effect.)
Don’t have any formal qualifications in ‘economics’ but have read a (small) mountain of relevant literature, including MMT. Can’t understand that the USA with debt somewhere above $129 trillion (now impossible to ‘pay back’) continues to run deficits without much concern.
Japan follows a similar path. Although I understand that the incoming ‘leader’ will probably attempt to change things.
And there’s always dollars for war and war ‘toys’ which would never be spent if we had more of a ‘participatory’ democracy and not the sham of a ‘representative’ democracy we have at the moment.
Tom R re
Not my confirmation Tom R – that’s all down to Quiggin. MMT advocates express other view(s). See Bill Mitchell, Stephanie Kelton etc. (Kelton btw was an adviser to Bernie Sanders.)
They would (unkindly) suggest that Quiggin is just protecting his (academic) territory. And academics have been known to do just that.
Safe to say that any Research always advances/proceeds on the basis of new theories. And that applies not only to the Social Sciences (psychology. sociology, history, economics etc) but to the hard sciences (chemistry, physics, etc) as well.
Recent thinking re gravity:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0370157317301527
That abstract is 7 years old and I don’t much (any) of it. Haven’t even heard of the ‘concepts’ employed. (What the hell are ‘bouncing cosmologies? ..
‘modified gravity formalism’ etc),
Further, suspect that the article itself is way out of date. The change we are experiencing continues to accelerate exponentially.
Can’t understand that the USA with debt somewhere above $129 trillion
I think you most probably meant 129% of GDP.
But there is a big difference between USA and Japanese debt and ours. Only 30% of USA debt is foreign debt. Furthermore the USA has vast overseas assets to cover that 30% of foreign debt.
For Australia, 70% of our govt debt is foreign. And i doubt we have overseas assets to cover that debt.
But i am not sure what MMT is. It cannot just be deficit spending because the USA has been deficit spending since it started.
TB – here’s a (hypothetical) exercise that most (initially) see as being atheoretical.
Here’s the exercise – Count the number of people on Surfers Paradise Beach at 1.00 pm on Boxing Day.
Heaps of assumptions/theories/ etc made which have significant implications for the methodologies employed – the facts/count arrived at etc.
Can also be affected/effected by the motivation(s) involved. Do you want a ‘high’ count or a ‘low’ count? Is the ‘motivation’ at a ‘conscious’ or ‘sub-conscious’ level? And so on
I know this is a mistake – but
https://www.truthinaccounting.org/about/our_national_debt?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0oyYBhDGARIsAMZEuMt7muUU_lZZdVX3z0W80oUg1ARghCL84cplsRRFbd1O-6UatBE1lBUaAkceEALw_wcB
So how does it end?
I know this is a mistake – but
Thanks for the link. I did not realise it was that bad for the USA. But i am not sure if people put a countries unfunded liabilities in a countries govt debt.
Howard/Costello started the Future Fund to cover unfunded Superannuation for aussie govt workers. I don’t think unfunded Super would be counted in Australian govt debt.
But as i said there is a big difference between our govt debt and most other Western countries. Most of our current govt debt is foreign
NoS – seeing you’re somewhat interested and you might consider a new mantra (Note that these figures are out of date.):
Note the rather large ‘turn around’ – from a $5 billion surplus to $86 billion in deficit . So give your usual nonsense a rest and cite that eye-watering’ figure. But wait there’s even more.
More here. https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/business-law/australias-coronavirus-bill-who-does-government-owe-money
Again, note that this WAS the historical position in 2020.
I’m going to assume that morrison is going to skate through this scandal untouched and unfazed as he has all his life with wreckage lying behind him.
How the media allow him to focus on the ‘illegality’, when the question is the morality of what he did is beyond me, but, different rules for different parties. But the pile of bodies he will leave in his wake may be a satisfactory compensation.
(ps, thanks for the gravity link too MN)
So give your usual nonsense a rest and cite that eye-watering’ figure
No need to be nasty. I am unaware of me saying nonsense. You come from the side of politics that misleads and deceives people. But your link says this
Two-thirds of Australian government debt is held by non-resident investors – a share that has risen since 2009 and remains historically high. But it’s difficult to say precisely who these investors are,
That is the big difference between our govt debt and Japanese and USA govt debt. Ours is mainly foreign whereas theirs is mainly local.
Maybe morrison won’t get off so lightly? Here’s hoping
Some random history on how the USD became the global benchmark.
In all thing finance, treachery always seems to be the deciding factor 😦
The story involves a carefully laid trap, late night dancing and copious amounts of alcohol.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/07/16/331743569/episode-552-the-dollar-at-the-center-of-the-world
MMT is more concerned about the denomination of the debt than the residence of the creditor.
NoS
Here’s a (long) quote from the article that you should read very carefully.
Get the drift?
MN
I am not very smart. I am going to continue to believe that having 70% of our govt debt in foreign hands is a bad thing. This is in contrast to Japan and the USA where 70% of their govt debt is in local hands. Furthermore they have vast overseas assets which can cover the 30% of debt in foreign hands.
Tom R – suggest you Google:
When did the Bretton Woods agreement end …
Now of historical interest only? Important as it was.
The world is changing quickly. BRICS is the new kid on the block.
NoS – You did read that – Further, the lenders cannot force early repayment, nor can they force Australia to buy back the debt.
You should also note that the debt was purchased using Australian dollars AND it will be repaid using Australian dollars also.
And where do Australian dollars come from? The answer is – The Australian Government. In that sense, we (Australia) can’t go broke – because we print our own money (dollars). We have a fiat currency.
(Doesn’t mean – that because we can – we should. There are consequences. People might NOT want them if they become too plentiful. And so on.)
It would seem that – Senior ministers sat around table to decide secret powers for Morrison
Possible that some these ‘Senior Ministers’ weren’t perhaps ‘paying attention’? Didn’t understand what they were signing? Are lying now? Or a combination of the above.
And those Senior Ministers (at the time were):
Who is left to face the music? Who still has further political aspirations? Seems like it’s just Dutton and Reynolds.
Guess Dutton has to carry the load.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-23/behind-the-scenes-of-scott-morrisons-power-grab/101358232
“ human beings have always been a commodity ”
Somewhat agree. lf a primate is ‘white’ it is reduced to ‘labor-units’ in corpro-kooyong speak. lf primate is ‘black’ it is reduced to ‘slave’ in historic yankeeland speak.`
Who is left to face the music?
How morriscum isn’t being run out of Parliament is beyond me. I mean, MP’s have quit over far less. It seems, as long as you ‘just don’t care’, there is nothing anyone can do.
On the upside, the libs are the real ones taking the heat, and losing the ‘political capital’, such as they had. That in itself is a good thing imo
And, he will definitely go down now as the worst pm we ever had
“ Bushmaster is manufactured by an Australian company in Bendigo ”
Nowadays we have ask ‘how-much’ is teebz. Before eleventy told auto to fcukoff so loud and publicly, lots of off-shore bitz’n pieces were sticky taped into so-called ‘muppet-made’ autoz. We hav’nt made tyres, nuts, bolts for yonks, for ages, for starts. How many had mexico engines, gearbox, trannys, etc How many had brazil doors, boot-lids, bonnets, etc. Then all the electronic crap from thePanda.`
If I were sitting on the Labor benches, I would want Morrison to remain forever-and-a-day as an ongoing, painful reminder of what happened. Then I’d erect a statue. Legislate for a minute’s silence every day the Parliament sits.
Look at the polls. Imagine any pending election. Even Dutton would have to vote Labor.
For Labor, Morrison is one of the best PMs ever.
Further as to how the world is changing. BRICS again.
(Warning: Some speculation.)
(Doesn’t mean – that because we can – we should. There are consequences. People might NOT want them if they become too plentiful. And so on.)
You sound a little uncertain. If govt debt is not a problem then lets spend even
more government money. That is what proponents of MMT seem to be saying
Re:
Good! Because I always am.
Every belief should be tentative. Except of course you are into “religion” – relying on “faith” as your way of knowing.
Despite the noble Stairman’s best efforts, NZ (541) has just overtaken Australia (538) in Covid deaths per million of population
Perhaps the demographics are not the same? In Australia, those over 65 used to represent 2.5% of the total population at the turn of the century while in NZ it was 3.5%.
Not sure of the current numbers. But they are possibly important in any comparison?
Kneel’s Newsflash!
It’s the cover up that does it. And seems, they were all in on the cover up
A three to four-page protocol was drafted for approval by the National Security Committee (NSC) of cabinet, which comprised Morrison, then-deputy PM Michael McCormack, Hunt, Peter Dutton (Home Affairs), Mathias Cormann (Finance), Marise Payne (Foreign Affairs) and Linda Reynolds (Defence).
……………
Only members of the NSC — and the Governor-General — knew that Morrison also had that authority, which amounted to effective power of martial law.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-23/behind-the-scenes-of-scott-morrisons-power-grab/101358232
And then he went on the gather more, using a health emergency as cover to gather more power to himself. Just like a real dictator.
And all this time, they were calling Dan the dictator, and calling those pointing out morrisons danger as “Labor Trolls/Thugs” and “Lobotomised sh**heads”
Well, we warned ya. Now comes the slow unravelling. How long before Boofhead gets rolled? morrison has single handedly decimated a once corrupt and sniveling party.
GOOD!
GOOD!
Always the enablers … from G-G to “anti-social” media commenters …
Eventually they they catch up … in this case as in Trump … nowt’ll ‘appen …
‘Tis history rhyming … just who does run the cave?
No wonder the stars are wailing … (I just love this!)
sorry about the the stutter! 😀
So NASA making things up again, just like ’69 all over again 😉
A nice little tune from Cathy to yomm
Interesting. A Webb of intrigue – maybe the Big Bang never happened. Or maybe it did.<
So NASA making things up again, just like ’69 all over again 😉
Bloody doubter …
TR, some folk won’t get the “song” – bloody good tho’ …
ToM … FYI … oh and Kneel … (you know the tune) … I Still Call Australia Home …
Big Bang is a fkn TV series … The Great Architect, Trumps, all scienctific theories, surely!
Continue to be unsure as to whether democracy (where the Citizens do the ruling – making the important decisions on an ongoing basis) is the best form of government or not. But what is evident, is that it hasn’t been tried.
We have what is labelled a representative democracy. Where decisions are made by representatives. As to whom the representatives actually represent and how they attained their position is an ongoing problem.
In many, many instances, the potential representative is chosen by a very small number (usually much less that 0.5% of the populace) who are members of a particular political party. That’s where the real election occurs. That’s where the power resides and that’s where the loyalty begins and ends.
But it doesn’t have to be that way. We have the technology to move to a more participatory democracy . All we lack is the political will.
“Big Bang is a fkn TV series … The Great Architect, Trumps, all scienctific (sic) theories, surely!”
More incoherent drivel. You’re missing the big picture here, TB. Trump derangement syndrome if ever there was!