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AFL Grand Final Preview with Tom of Melbourne!

September 22, 2022

Tom of Melbourne brings us his exclusive take on the Grand Final 2022…!

Has there ever been a more self centred, attention seeking organisation than the British Royal Family?

Now they’re determined to disrupt our annual football festival.

Just when the attention of the entire civilised world is returning its focus to Melbourne, again hosting the AFL Grand Final, Queen Elizabeth dies. And without even considering all the scheduling disruption!

Families had already organised their drinking games for the Brownlow Medal count.   But all this had to hastily change when the Royal Family organised the funeral at the very same time.

Dozens of blonde lasses had to reschedule their spray tans and pick up early the double-sided tape to hold their frocks together. 

Even the public holiday (to mourn) is the day before our day off to celebrate Australia’s greatest cultural gift to the world! 

In the actual game, it is Geelong (representing the landed gentry demographic) versus Sydney (representing the Oxford Street demographic).

Sydney to win by 3 goals!

83 Comments leave one →
  1. TB Queensland permalink
    September 22, 2022 10:00 am

    Tom of Melbourne brings us his exclusive take on the Grand Final 2022…!

    Does, Lord Tom, know? 😉

    Has there ever been a more self-centred, attention seeking organisation than the British Royal Family?

    I’m surprised Lord ToM doesn’t recognise a perpetual marketing plan, being the local self proclaimed business guru (although he probably sees marketing as a middle management role).

    Just when the attention of the entire civilised world is returning its focus to Melbourne

    Sydney and Perth are not … “the entire civilised world” … in fact they’re not even fkn civilised!

    As for Aerial Ping Pong! Well, duh!

    (One of your best posts, reb, ToM should write more) 😎

  2. reb of Melbourne permalink*
    September 22, 2022 10:21 am

    It’s all YoM’s handiwork.

    I’m grieving quietly at home today, curtains drawn, in solemn mourning and thankful prayer for our late Sovereign lady, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

  3. TB Queensland permalink
    September 22, 2022 10:22 am

    🤢🤬🤢🤡🤡🤡

  4. TB Queensland permalink
    September 22, 2022 10:27 am

    Speaking of Elizabeth’s Wake and Rumble …

    Queen Margrethe II of Denmark and Crown Prince Frederik both tested positive for C19.

    How many more will pop up … might be some open spots for new puppets.

    Sir Duke reb of Melbourne
    Sir Duke TB of Brisbane

  5. Tom R permalink
    September 23, 2022 11:10 am

    Madame Tom R of (King) Adelaide

  6. Tom R permalink
    September 23, 2022 11:15 am

    lol

  7. Tom R permalink
    September 23, 2022 12:40 pm

  8. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 23, 2022 5:20 pm

    I’m on the record as having made plenty of disparaging remarks about Trump.
    But I’m not sure I’ve previously posted my theory- “Having an irrational narcissist in the Whitehouse may promote restraint in the ambitions of expansionist fascists”
    * If a US leader is rational, an expansionist fascist (such as Putin) can predict the likely responses. There will be a broad menu of choices and escalations. Advisors and experts can wargame all the options. Each can be analysed and a response planned
    * If a US leader is an irrational narcissist, the expansionist fascist and advisors are unable to make an informed prediction about the likely response. The response will depend on whether (Trump) took the invasion/military operation as a personal slight, whether he feels like he’s being made to look foolish and how all the conspiracy theorists see it. His response will depend on how he sees it effecting him personally. His response will range from “do nothing” to “go nuclear”
    The unpredictability causes uncertainty.
    Therefore it’s entirely likely that having a narcissist nutcase in the Whitehouse is a handbrake on expansionist fascists

  9. Tony permalink
    September 23, 2022 7:31 pm

    Don’t care who wins but I wouldn’t mind if some of the smugness got wiped off Chris Scott’s face.

  10. TB Queensland permalink
    September 23, 2022 10:09 pm

    Therefore it’s entirely likely that having a narcissist nutcase in the Whitehouse is a handbrake on expansionist fascists

    Or fucking dangerously stupid!

  11. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 23, 2022 10:21 pm

    I am watching the cricket on Kayo. I am not interested in aussie rules. Apparently my team is playing- Sydney

    I hope Geelong wins

  12. Tom R permalink
    September 23, 2022 11:00 pm

    Therefore it’s entirely likely that having a narcissist nutcase in the Whitehouse is a handbrake on expansionist fascists

    OR, and, hear me out, having a nutjob who is happy to give away American military to the Russians, and who knows what else after the revelations from the CIA raid, why not just build your power and asset base while the fool is there, and unleash it after?

  13. TB Queensland permalink
    September 24, 2022 8:01 am

    OR, and, hear me out, having a nutjob who is happy to give away American military to the Russians,

    Isn’t that what I wrote, TR?

  14. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 24, 2022 10:43 am

    I think there’s something to be said for complete unpredictability.
    It can’t be managed or planned.

  15. reb of Melbourne permalink*
    September 24, 2022 3:20 pm

    A Mate of mine has 2 tix to the AFL Grand Final in a private box Unfortunately, he didn't realise when he bought them that it is on the same day as his wedding, so he can't go.If you want to go instead of him, it is at 2pm at St Paul’s Catholic Church, Coburg and her name is Amy— sam (@sambaykan) September 23, 2022

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  16. TB Queensland permalink
    September 24, 2022 6:25 pm

    LOL! @ reb!

  17. TB Queensland permalink
    September 24, 2022 6:26 pm

    BTW, where’s Coburg? Germany?

  18. TB Queensland permalink
    September 24, 2022 6:29 pm

    I think there’s something to be said for complete unpredictability.

    Wyrd Bið Ful Aræd: Fate is Inexorable

  19. reb of Melbourne permalink*
    September 24, 2022 9:21 pm

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  20. Tom R permalink
    September 26, 2022 2:08 pm

    There was footy on the weekend?

    Some positive news for the longsuffering NDIS

  21. Fur Rower Might`Teabag permalink
    September 26, 2022 2:38 pm

    l noticed three weeks in, and underwhelmy had already triggered repug noises to start eroding the tribal voice to clowntown. Now that Liz is gone and charlie’s in, (the highest profile greenist ever) the bandt-greenists are making anti-charlie repug noises too. None of which was what last election was about.`

  22. Tom R permalink
    September 27, 2022 12:04 pm

    I see the libs are being as terrible as they can be. Typical

  23. September 27, 2022 7:22 pm

    Suspect that a CDC (of sorts) will remain for years to come. Certainly, there’s lots of kids who share that hope.

    For adults (without dependents) who want to ‘piss it all up a wall’, then feel free. Provided of course, they’re not harming others, broadly defined.

  24. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 27, 2022 7:54 pm

    I see reports about the mass shooting at a Russian school.
    Dreadful, but most people don’t realise that Russia has a higher homicide rate than the US.
    A higher suicide rate too.
    Putin is such a success

  25. September 27, 2022 8:24 pm

    Did you know that the U.S. has 4% of the world’s population but recorded 25% of global Covid deaths? And it now has 35% of all Monkeypox cases.

    Did you know that Covid finished off 1.04 million Americans, the highest toll of any nation. It is the Exceptional Empire. The U.S. population clocks in at 330 million.

    The U.S. is a public health fiasco.

    Compare that to China’s 5200 Covid deaths out of a population of 1.4 billion. Further the average life span of Chinese citizens now exceeds that of American citizens.

    Which country took this lethal virus seriously enough to protect its citizens? Hint, not the capitalist behemoth, with patients intubated from sea to shining sea?

    Did you know that the USA Empire spends 3.5% of its GDP on “Defense” even though it hasn’t had to “defend” any of its territory since … Perhaps it isn’t about ‘Defense’ after all?

    And then it causes Australia (possibly its most compliant Vassal) to spend something like $160 billion on submarines that are likely to be obsolete before reaching service.

    Note that the USA and Australian Citizens are not consulted about such matters.

    Ain’t “democracy” wonderful? Lol.

  26. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 27, 2022 8:45 pm

    I think you’ll find that covid deaths in the US and Russia are about the same rate.
    But congratulations on a meaningless diatribe

  27. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 27, 2022 8:48 pm

    And I think you might also find that Russia spends a greater percentage of its GDP in the military

  28. TB Queensland permalink
    September 28, 2022 10:54 am

    Russia spends a greater percentage of its GDP in the military…

    Obviously not on its military …

    And, the USofA has dragged Australia in to all of its failed wars against non-christians … Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan … ain’t religous wars wonderful for the soul! 🤑

  29. Tom R permalink
    September 28, 2022 11:03 am

    Good news from Parliament for once

  30. Tom R permalink
    September 28, 2022 11:06 am

    And

  31. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 28, 2022 11:22 am

    Have you seen the way the Russian orthodox church runs the public relations campaign for Putin?

  32. Tom R permalink
    September 28, 2022 12:26 pm

    Who could have foreseen the optus thing coming.

    Step 1, allow private companies to harvest as much personal data as they want
    Step 2, don’t make them protect it

  33. TB Queensland permalink
    September 28, 2022 4:17 pm

    They all catch up eventually, TR

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    … the way the Russian orthodox church runs the public relations campaign … ?

    Point being, ToM?

  34. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 28, 2022 5:17 pm

    You referred to religious wars

  35. TB Queensland permalink
    September 28, 2022 6:09 pm

    Ahhhh! So Russia and the USA are the same?

    So no chance of conflict? *

  36. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 28, 2022 6:42 pm

    Which country is most likely to use nuclear weapons in the near future?
    Which country uses the state church as it’s military recruitment office?

  37. reb of Melbourne permalink*
    September 28, 2022 6:51 pm

    Which country is most likely to use nuclear weapons in the near future?

    Who knows, maybe Russia, maybe USA (who has a track record?)

    Which country uses the state church as it’s military recruitment office?

    That’d be the USA from where I’m sitting..

  38. September 28, 2022 7:00 pm

    Raises the issue of whether the “religious” should make political statements or not. And if they do, will the MSM refer to same if they raise “embarrassing” questions?

    Wonder how many have read or viewed the Pope and his views on significant “moral” questions.

    Note that like those of a religious orientation, he comes (begins) from a “deontological” perspective (emphasis on ‘intentions’) but also considers the ‘consequences’ of those ‘intentions’ (teleological considerations).

  39. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 28, 2022 7:37 pm

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Kirill_of_Moscow

  40. September 28, 2022 7:59 pm

    Those who have been following the issue would know that the Russian Orthodox Church is now split. A Schism – on political affiliation(s).

    Some members have left and joined the Greek Orthodox (in Ukraine). Many in the Donbass have remained with the Russian Orthodox (explains in part – but only in part – the overwhelming support for joining the Russian Federation.) Most, however, elected to join the breakaway Ukraine Orthodox Church.

    Not for the first time has a Schism broken out. In 1054, there was the Great Schism which saw the (Roman) Catholics lost control over the Orthodox based on theological and political considerations.

    Russia is a very religious Nation and the Communists had to accommodate that.

  41. September 28, 2022 9:58 pm

    And here’s the “objective” reality.

    Ukraine is not an Elephant! (But who really knows what the future holds?)

  42. TB Queensland permalink
    September 29, 2022 8:55 am

    And now for something completely different ….

    Another research project to reveal something most of us knew …

    Ruff day? Dogs can detect if people are stressed, research finds

  43. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 29, 2022 2:24 pm

  44. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 29, 2022 2:40 pm

    This is hilarious:

  45. September 29, 2022 2:56 pm

    Yet, the narrative being promoted is that Russia destroyed its own pipelines.

    And that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was unprovoked.

    Noam Chomsky repeated his argument that the only reason we hear the word “unprovoked” every time anyone mentions Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in the mainstream news media is because it absolutely was provoked, and they know it.

    In the mass media you’re not allowed to talk about the known US/NATO/Ukraine actions which experts have been warning for many years would lead us to where we’re at. You’re only allowed to say Putin attacked Ukraine completely unprovoked , in a vacuum, solely because he is evil and hates freedom. And you have to do it while saying the word “unprovoked” at every opportunity.

    (Doesn’t excuse the Russian invasion. But gives it context.)

  46. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 29, 2022 3:37 pm

    Agreed, MN. Also, it appears the US has form in b lowing up Russian pipelines.

    Around Halloween 1982, an explosion occurred in the middle of Siberia, vaporizing a large segment of the newly-built trans-Siberian pipeline. The explosion –which was reported to be 1/7 the magnitude of the nuclear weapons dropped on Japan during WWII– severely damaged the pipeline, which was set to produce $8 Billion in petroleum revenue annually for the USSR. Only recently has this silently successful CIA operation been disclosed to the public.

  47. September 29, 2022 4:28 pm

    Re:

    Only recently has this silently successful CIA operation been disclosed to the public.

    That’s a “positive” for the USA. Almost impossible to keep things under wraps for too long. Much “history” still to be disclosed.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

  48. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 29, 2022 4:38 pm

    So cool:

  49. TB Queensland permalink
    September 29, 2022 6:42 pm

    (Doesn’t excuse the Russian invasion. But gives it context.)

    Glad you said that … some folk don’t get it … nor that propaganda is a two way street … and as above!

  50. TB Queensland permalink
    September 29, 2022 6:44 pm

    So cool: tru dat! And Italiano too! Scooter person quick! 😎

  51. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 29, 2022 8:42 pm

    Yeah, “provoked”, because
    * Former Russian colonies didn’t want to return to being colonies
    * The Ukraine parliament voted unanimously to oust Yanukovych after he tried to join the Russian trade zone in 2014, when parliament had already established a process for joining the EU
    * Every former Warsaw Pact country now opposes Putin’s regime, and Ukraine prefered the company of that fraternity
    “Provoked” is the refuge of apologists for the fascist Putin…and wife beaters
    That’s the company you keep

  52. September 29, 2022 10:41 pm

    ToM – who doesn’t (or can’t) read links. Lol.

    Perhaps one might get a response/reaction to this:

    if the invasion of Ukraine was unprovoked, how come so many western experts spent years warning that the actions of western governments would provoke an invasion of Ukraine?

    So who gave the “warnings”?

    Pat Buchanan (1999) pointed out : By moving NATO onto Russia’s front porch, we have scheduled a twenty-first-century confrontation.”

    Then there was Kissinger who warned:

    that “to Russia, Ukraine can never be just a foreign country” and that the West therefore needs a policy that is aimed at “reconciliation”.

    He was also adamant that “Ukraine should not join NATO”

    Was Kissinger an “apologist” too?

    Then there was Mearsheimer from the USA who warned in 2015:

    “The West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked […] What we’re doing is in fact encouraging that outcome.”

    And then there was Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, and, and – so let’s cite Stephen Cohen who pointed out “if we move NATO forces toward Russia’s borders […] it’s obviously gonna militarize the situation [and] Russia will not back off, this is existential”

    Think it’s fair to say there has rarely been a conflict that so many strategic thinkers from the other camp saw coming and warned against for so many years, yet had their advice ignored.

    Then there’s Tom from Melbourne who used to work for Qantas but can’t provide any links or historical perspective.

    Enough!

    Will finish with an advice:

    It’s not okay to be a grown adult in September of 2022 and still say the invasion of Ukraine was unprovoked. You’ve got a brain between your ears and an entire internet of information at your fingertips. Use them.

    But it will fall on deaf ears. Sadly!

  53. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 30, 2022 8:21 am

    1. Is Putin so stupid that he was “provoked” into a war he didn’t want?
    2. Are you such a sycophant that you’re unable to explain exactly what the “provocation” is? All you do is provide a list of those you agree with. Not any rationale

  54. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 30, 2022 10:26 am

    Putin may well have wanted to seize Ukrainian territory. The US and NATO gave him an excuse to do so.

    Then there is this: Western allies led by UK’s Johnson sabotaged tentative Ukraine-Russia peace deal

    At the moment the West senses the opportunity to weaken Russia. Hence the Nord Stream 2 pipeline explosion, as promised by Biden.

  55. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    September 30, 2022 11:03 am

    1. All year, every visit to Ukraine by a leader has been unannounced. It is a little disingenuous of the article to suggest that a surprise visit is unusual.
    2. Putin denied any plan to invade until he invaded. Since then the rhetoric has increased its provocation . There has never been any indication by Russia of a willingness to compromise.
    3. If Zelensky was looking for a support not to surrender, it’s hardly unreasonable that he was provided with this.
    4. Ukraine shows a willingness to continue to defend itself against an invasion. Is that a problem?

  56. TB Queensland permalink
    September 30, 2022 11:56 am

    All year, every visit to Ukraine by a leader has been unannounced.

    For a very good reason … there’s a war in Ukraine! … a surprise visit is unusual … not during a war … did you work for Optus? Seems “thinking” past yesterday is a bit of a problem for you …

    4. Ukraine shows a willingness to continue to defend itself against an invasion. Is that a problem?

    Why would it be a problem? You’ve got preparations in place in case China bobs up in islands around the Australian coastline and Darwin, haven’t you? Y’know, transport, clothes, water, food, power, lights, fire kit, temporary shelter, weapons? 👽

  57. Splatterbottom permalink
    September 30, 2022 12:06 pm

  58. TB Queensland permalink
    September 30, 2022 6:48 pm

    Is Mar-a-Lago still standing? What about the owner … ?

    Donald Trump turned to social media to plead for donations to his political campaign as parts of Florida began rescue and recovery efforts following Hurricane Ian.

    Speaking in a video on Wednesday from his Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach, southern Florida, the former president pleaded for donations to his Save America PAC ahead of a fundraising deadline.

    “We have a major fundraising deadline coming up and there’s never been a time like this,” said Mr Trump, who claimed America had “never been so disrespected” by the world.

    “We have to change it, we have to bring our country back, we made America great and now never gonna have to make America great again so I say whatever you can do to help out, we have to meet the dealine”.

    (sic)

    Nah, still standing, still as “empathetic” (pathetic?) as always … christian hypocrisy writ large …

    Long Live the Enablers!

  59. Neil of Sydney permalink
    September 30, 2022 9:49 pm

    I had to visit the Doctor this week. For the first time the Doctor did not bulk bill. So i had to pay. The bill was for $73. I got a $40 rebate so i had to pay $33.

    I think it could be a good idea that you have to pay something when you visit the Doctor. Apparently more Doctors are not bulk billing anymore.

  60. TB Queensland permalink
    September 30, 2022 10:42 pm

    So pleased for you, Kneel …

  61. Fur Rower Might`Teabag permalink
    October 1, 2022 12:49 pm

    lt is quite funny seeing the in-house kooyong calling gorby, kissinger, etc ‘sycophant’ while ignoring the nato chook shed took the 14 sleepwalk steps to russia/ crimea, and theRealdeal took the 15th step in 2013?/ 2014?/ mh17 remember. Then huffs’n puffs about theRonald in same blather. Newsflash, theRonald wasn’t even ‘running’ for 2016 when it started in crimea.`

  62. Fur Rower Might`Teabag permalink
    October 1, 2022 1:18 pm

    Those in kooyong that ‘true-believer’ teabag recite, anti-ruski/ anti-panda and yankeeland arselick are still knot watching the main game. Giving global cooling near 3/4rs of a century head start aint a winner for anybody. Some years ago l dropped a link here on thePanda building 400-ish coalburners around the planet. ln 2021 350-ish of them were meant to be finished. The two or-3 dozen stragglers are due by 2026. Plopped on a coal quarry to chug away for decades. Now, the euro-trash have a gasline spewing out methane. The food shortage/ emergency has begun. The world as a whole is still sleepwalking into another ‘vietnam’-like quagmire of its own making. Those that swoon for any of the so-called global leaders are sure to be disappointed. l-promise. As the vast majority of them are pretty crap.`

  63. October 1, 2022 4:56 pm

    For those who proceed on the childish belief that this “issue” began yesterday and not decades ago. So an article by Jeffrey SACHS.

    “Since Russia views its vital security interests to be at stake in the current conflict, the war in Ukraine is rapidly escalating to a nuclear showdown. It’s urgent for both the US and Russia to exercise restraint before disaster hits.”

    https://johnmenadue.com/the-great-game-in-ukraine-is-spinning-out-of-control/

  64. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 1, 2022 6:04 pm

    Actually it’s Russia that has to exercise restraint. No one else is threatening to use nuclear weapons

  65. October 1, 2022 7:00 pm

    Historically, it’s only the USA that has used nuclear weapons. Not once, but twice. There they stand alone.

    Do we judge by (last resort) threats or by historical actions?

    Was always against USA/NATO eastern expansion, particularly given any number of promises not to do just that. Was also against ‘arming’ a divided Ukraine because of long term consequences. Simplistic actions in a complex world.

    (Yes Ukraine is/was a divided nation based in part on ‘religion’, ‘ethnicity’ and now particularly ‘language’ and its use and non-use in certain crucial areas of daily life.. Yes most of the population ‘looks’ to the west but there’s a significant group whose loyalties are to Russia. The NATO issue – Putin’s ‘redline’ has caused further divisions.)

    Already the USA Republicans are making noises about NOT funding further military aid to Ukraine and they are likely to make significant gains in the coming mid-terms. Then there’s unrest in the EU (try Poland and Hungary) – with a cold winter coming. The chances of back-sliding on sanctions are increasing. (Might explain why the ‘pipelines’ were put out of action.)

    So who is going to support (a partitioned) Ukraine in the longer term? When (or if) its “usefulness” exits centre stage? Does the USA remember who assisted them? They didn’t in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan? Who is going to rebuild Ukraine? etc, etc.

    As I pointed out some time ago, sound moral decisions (rarely made by empires) should go beyond “intentions” and consider “outcomes” or “consequences”.

  66. TB Queensland permalink
    October 2, 2022 12:35 pm

    Was watching a TV show and a segment on Alexander the Great (“Museum Mysteries” from memory) and how the “barbarians” all attacked Macedonia when he succeeded his father at age 20, his enemies thought he was young and weak (poor judgement as it turned out).

    My point is, that its a bit like Putin deciding to attack Ukraine, when a new young, “learner” president has recently been elected – must be weak(?) … moreover that president was new to the job of politics, having been a well known comedian and entertainer … how could Russia lose?

    History rhymes and Zelenskyy has risen to the challenge!

  67. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 2, 2022 1:16 pm

    1. The events of 80 years ago, at the end of WW2 have little relevance to their use today
    2. Got some evidence about NATO not expanding? Various US presidents have denied that. It’s expansion is specifically related to the anxiety of former Warsaw Pact countries/colonies.
    3. Putin has shown brutality, arrogance and poor judgement throughout this war. But you were advocating the surrender if Ukraine when it started
    4. It is just as plausible that Russia is losing its appetite for war

  68. October 2, 2022 1:50 pm

    Plenty of ‘evidence’ available from those who are ‘experts’ in the area.

    (I’m certainly NOT an ‘expert’ and never claimed to be. That would be ridiculous in the extreme.)

    The problem seems to be that it isn’t being read or viewed. Perhaps the articles are too long? So here’s a brief one from an acknowledged expert. Google him for verification.

    And a longer much more detailed article(s) from an ex-insider.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2022/09/22/scott-ritter-reaping-the-whirlwind/

  69. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 2, 2022 2:01 pm

    The “evidence” I’ve seen about a commitment to non expansion was an alleged comment by Helmut Kohl when Germany was reunified.
    But this has been debunked by other leaders and US presidents.

  70. October 2, 2022 2:26 pm

    ToM – you don’t participate in “good faith”. You are presenting yourself as an “expert”. No links. Just claims. So I’ll remedy that with a source (because I wasn’t there). I have no other way of ‘knowing’.

    On February 9, 1990, President George H.W. Bush and his Secretary of State James Baker III, promised Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev that if the Soviet Union would withdraw their troops and allow German reunification under America’s NATO military alliance, they would not expand it, as Baker put it, “one inch eastward” beyond that.

    West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, French President Francois Mitterrand, and British Prime Ministers Margaret Thatcher, and later John Major, all made the same promise.

    Of course they have lied about it since, at various times claiming this pledge either never happened or doesn’t count because it wasn’t in writing. But in 2019, the records were posted at George Washington University’s National Security Archive. You can read the writing yourself.

    Just last month, at the end of February 2022, an American researcher found in the British National Archives a formerly secret document, minutes of a meeting with the political directors of the foreign ministries of America, the UK, France and Germany, on March 6, 1991, in which German representative Jürgen Chrobog, says, “We made it clear in the two-plus-four negotiations that we would not expand NATO beyond the Elbe.

    We can therefore not offer NATO membership to Poland and the others.” As reported by the German paper Der Spiegel, U.S. Representative Raymond Seitz said: “We have made it clear to the Soviet Union — in two-plus-four talks and elsewhere — that we will not take advantage of the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe.

    https://original.antiwar.com/scott/2022/03/02/the-history-behind-the-russia-ukraine-war/

    There’s just one link among the many that are available.

  71. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 2, 2022 2:34 pm

    You’ll find that Bush denied approving that and Baker said he went to far. That’s a reason that none of it was contained in the final protocol
    Have you experienced negotiation, where a range of possibilities are explored? It is the final agreement that applies, not every point that arises during the negotiation.
    Did you also notice that just a matter of months ago, Putin repeatedly denied that he would invade Ukraine?

  72. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 2, 2022 2:40 pm

    And by the way, a political leader can make a verbal commitment that applies to the policies for the course of their tenure.
    Do you think private, unwritten, verbal commitments lock in the policy options for their successors?
    No politician or leader would accept this.

  73. October 2, 2022 2:56 pm

    And all the other world Leaders listed above additional to Bush? Did they go too far as well?

    Hilarious. Again no links to support.

    And those records in the various archives (as listed above)? They all got it wrong as well?

    For those who might be interested in the USA’s war history since the end of the Cold War. (Guess what – their aggression has intensified as evidenced via the documented incidents.)

  74. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 2, 2022 3:15 pm

    Does a private, unwritten, verbal communication bind succeeding governments for decades?

  75. October 2, 2022 3:36 pm

    So you’re conceding that the promise was made? And it was recorded (now in written archives in the USA and Britain)?

    Again there is a mountain of evidence re personal mala fides.

    Or are you the world’s fastest reader?

    (Again stressing the personal view that Putin should not have invaded BUT he was “provoked”.)

    (Did you know that Putin just had his bi-weekly “heart attack” as reported in the MSM and that …. the Nord Pipelines were destroyed by Russia which preferred to blow them up and not simply turn off the taps.

    Gees those Russians are stupid aren’t they?)

  76. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 2, 2022 3:47 pm

    It is disputed
    But tell me, how does a private, non binding, unwritten, verbal statement bind a future government
    Is a future US president required to observe any verbal statement Trump might have made?

  77. October 2, 2022 4:08 pm

    Love this timeline.

    Back in April President Joe Biden told the press the idea that this is a proxy war between the U.S. and Russia was “not true” and Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin said “It’s not, this is clearly Ukraine’s fight” when asked if this is a proxy war.

    The mainstream media were still framing this claim as merely an “accusation” by the Russian government and empire spinmeisters were regularly admonishing anyone who used that term on the grounds that it deprives Ukrainians of their “agency.”

    Then May rolled around and all of a sudden we had The New Yorker unequivocally telling us that the U.S. is in “a full proxy war with Russia” and hawks like U.S. Rep. Seth Moulton saying things like,

    “We’re not just at war to support the Ukrainians. We’re fundamentally at war, although somewhat through a proxy, with Russia, and it’s important that we win.”

    And then in June we’ve got war hawks like Max Boot coming right out and saying that this is actually America’s war, and it is therefore important for the U.S. to drastically escalate it in order to hand the Russians “devastating losses.”

    So, the previously unthinkable idea that the U.S. is at war with Russia has been gradually normalised, with the heat turned up so slowly that the frog doesn’t notice it’s being boiled alive. If that idea can be sufficiently normalised, public consent for greater escalations will likely be forthcoming, even if those escalations are extremely psychotic.

    And so it goes. The USA is a peace loving Nation. But only 2 years of peace since the end of WW II – 1952 and 1974. Only 16 years in its existence have the guns been silent.

    Can’t understand why these other Nations keep wanting to attack the American Empire. Or maybe, it’s the other way around.

  78. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 2, 2022 5:27 pm

    Yeah, as I’ve said, if only the US wasn’t a superpower,then Putin and Xi could carve up their spheres of influence between them. People like you would be delighted

  79. TB Queensland permalink
    October 2, 2022 7:45 pm

    Ya don’t get it ToM … we invaded, Korea, we invaded, Vietnam, we invaded, Iraq, we invaded Afghanistan … and I’m beginning to think we “invaded”, Timor-Leste (for gas) under the well trod, USofA guise, of “helping” the “people” …

    Having said that … it irks me that the world is “controlled and manipulated” by half a dozen ego driven power hungry maniacs … in every country I have ever visited (almost 40) all the “people” I’ve met and talked to have wanted the same thing … a peaceful existence, education, health services, gainful employment, and a happy, successful family.

    All governments … use their people for their gain … ALL including our own!

    The USofA is a not bunch of world saving christian crusaders … its just another defence force used as an assault force …

    It gets awkward when the aggressive nation is (supposedly) christian and the defensive nation is also christian … orthodox this and orthodox that …

    Now think of the other nations that the USofA (with our help) invaded – Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan … their religion? Or not?

    With your masterful observation and analytical skills, coupled with even a bit of comprehension … you may notice that the West is not as squeaky clean as you seem to imagine.

    Pity because I prefer the “West” to any alternative … just a bit less of The Wild West!

  80. TB Queensland permalink
    October 3, 2022 10:37 am

    Where are we buying nuclear subs from again?

    A nuclear submarine vital to the UK’s nuclear deterrent remains out of action, despite undergoing seven years of repairs. The sub was due to be sailing “as quickly as possible” but remains “peppered with defects”.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1677239/nuclear-submarine-trident-defence-system-out-of-action

  81. October 3, 2022 1:45 pm

    In days of yore, vassals paid tributes in gold and silver. Now they contract to buy submarines and other weapons of war that fit seamlessly into the Empire’s war machine.

    And yet it’s called maintaining our sovereignty. Oh how we laugh.

  82. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 3, 2022 7:13 pm

    Yeah, because nations with similar systems of government and similar security and institutional interests shouldn’t act as any form of collective or with any sense of preservation of those common interests

  83. TB Queensland permalink
    October 3, 2022 7:20 pm

    Oh how we laugh. Chuckle! 😶

    “Nothing is new!” Aish,
    Tour guide, Egypt – 1997

    You must know your strengths AND weaknesses before you can understand yourself … that goes for your country too!

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