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Are we hurtling towards another Global Financial Crisis?

October 3, 2022

If you’re a follower of all things financial and investment like, you’ll find that amongst economists and business journalists alike there’s a growing number sounding the drumbeat of an impending global financial crisis.

Certainly in the UK, recently appointed PM Liz Truss, quickly went to work proving she is completely out of her depth and knows sweet FA about anything by announcing a mini-budget of slashing taxes that saw the pound collapse to record lows and markets crash in some sort of typical neo-Liberal trickle-down fantasy.

Surpassing the errant stupidity of former PM Boris Johnson would seem like a challenge but not so for Truss who went MIA for days only to reappear later in a series of “local community radio” interviews that saw her parrot pre-prepared talking points in the midst of a complete economic meltdown.

Meanwhile in the US, the Federal Reserve is aggressively hiking interest rates to combat an inflation rate sitting at around 8.5%, while the RBA also shows no signs of slowing down its path of consecutive rate hikes back home.

Rumours abound that investment bank Credit Suisse is on the brink of bankruptcy, with some suggesting it could be the Lehman Brothers of our time and trigger a complete global financial meltdown.

Others suggest, it’s no long a matter of “if” but when.

154 Comments leave one →
  1. October 3, 2022 1:23 pm

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  2. October 3, 2022 4:59 pm

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  3. Tony permalink
    October 3, 2022 5:30 pm

    It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.

  4. reb of Melbourne permalink*
    October 3, 2022 6:05 pm

    This is true ToSY, but there seems to be a choir forming rather than just the odd doom-sayer predicting armageddon.

  5. TB Queensland permalink
    October 3, 2022 7:23 pm

    It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.

    Absolutely, ToSY … can’t stop laughing! Very good statement! 🤣😀😂

    LOL!!!!!

  6. TB Queensland permalink
    October 3, 2022 7:36 pm

    Our favourite “predictor” …

    https://www.financialexpress.com/economy/economist-roubini-warns-of-long-ugly-recession-in-2022-23-and-stocks-falling/2690273/

    “Fate is inexorable”, Uhtred, of Bebbanburg – The Last Kingdom, B. Cornwell

  7. Tom R permalink
    October 3, 2022 10:51 pm

    Well, “they” made a killing from the last couple, so may as well do it again

  8. Tom R permalink
    October 4, 2022 9:20 am

    It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.

    I knew you’d say that.

    (it’s even easier to make predictions after the event) 😉

  9. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 4, 2022 12:33 pm

    I hope they don’t bail the bastards out this time.

  10. Tom R permalink
    October 4, 2022 2:26 pm

  11. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 4, 2022 7:21 pm

    Well it looks like Howard was right. Interest rates will be lower under a Coalition govt. But i am glad they are going up to more normal levels. Higher interest rates might stop people investing in property and put their money into other areas more beneficial for the country. Plus older people will get more money on their term deposits.

  12. TB Queensland permalink
    October 5, 2022 7:23 pm

    Coupla good days on the ASX … trouble is it’ll be up and down like a brides nightdress for quite a while!

  13. TB Queensland permalink
    October 5, 2022 7:25 pm

    Meanwhile …

    Higher interest rates might stop people investing in property and put their money into other areas more beneficial for the country.

    Such as?

    Plus older people will get more money on their term deposits.

    You have term deposits!!!?

  14. TB Queensland permalink
    October 5, 2022 7:26 pm

    I hope they don’t bail the bastards out this time.

    And the “bastards” are? (I never know with, splats)

  15. TB Queensland permalink
    October 5, 2022 7:42 pm

    Here’s an idea …. link employees pay rises to executive bonuses … 😎 … or just fire the arseholes!

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/qantas-argues-restraint-after-ceo-alan-joyce-pockets-pay-rise/news-story/7c7c0c5b8af700fc1f68b5aa5415009e

  16. Tom R permalink
    October 5, 2022 10:26 pm

    or just fire the arseholes!

    I’m going with fire the lot of ’em!

  17. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 6, 2022 9:50 am

    Such as?

    I would think people leaving their money in Term Deposits would be better for the country than investing in property.

    Yeah i have term deposits. I was getting 0.3% return not so long ago. No wonder people were looking elsewhere to put their money

  18. October 6, 2022 10:31 am

    LOL…!!

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  19. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 6, 2022 11:54 am

    “And the “bastards” are?”

    The banks, of course.

  20. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 6, 2022 1:54 pm

    Here is the ALP using taxpayers fund for political purposes to help their re-election

    Australian Public Service staff will receive a 3 per cent pay rise in what the federal government says is part of a commitment to “be better” when it comes to bargaining on behalf of the workforce.

  21. October 6, 2022 3:11 pm

    So Splats thinks the ‘banks’ are bastards (so no sympathy there), yet they are the second biggest ‘taxpayers’ in Australia (just behind BHP).

    Nos thinks that it’s the ALP that’s using these (so-called) ‘taxpayer’ funds (clearly can’t handle past tense) to increase the pay of some Citizens.

    Why is N0s sympathizing with these large corporations? Perhaps because he (as a bank investor) has a ‘conflict of interest’?

    Will Nos be investigated by the new ICAC (or equivalent) because he might be trying to influence government policy?

  22. October 6, 2022 3:31 pm

    Speaking of conflicts of interest, two of the USA Power Elite (Biden and Blinken) promised that ‘energy’ will not be delivered through the Nord Stream Pipelines. And when they are destroyed, the same two are there to offer ‘energy’ (to Germany) from the USA at three times the Russian price.

    Of course they deny destroying same and we know that the USA never lies. (You see, they didn’t put it into writing – so it doesn’t count apparently.)

    The Empire is in decline! But still Australia promises fealty (as any faithful Vassal would).

  23. October 6, 2022 3:59 pm

    If you want to take a deep dive into the thinking behind the pipeline(s) destruction, say hello to Leo Strauss – the German-Jewish philosopher who was in residence at the University of Chicago for several years.

    It was his thinking that provided the basis for the Wolfowitz Doctrine, which defined “America’s mission in the post-Cold War era.”

    Wolfowitz didn’t muck about. Any potential rival to US hegemony, must be destroyed. Europe should never again be sovereign. NATO must be preserved at all costs and therefore any purely European security system should not be tolerated.

    Worthwhile to remember that Blinken and Nuland (she of the “F**k the EU”) are Straussians so the coming ‘destabilisation’ and economic ‘destruction’ of Germany fits nicely into the Straussian grand plan.

    The wheels within the wheels. Germany was warned not to deal with Russia. Now out in the cold.

  24. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 6, 2022 5:49 pm

    Bernie Fraser has just confirmed the stage 3 tax cuts are a good idea.

    The former governor of the Reserve Bank, Bernie Fraser, has criticised
    the Labor government for sticking to the “very dodgy” stage-three tax cuts, arguing they should be repealed to allow for spending on social programs.

  25. October 6, 2022 5:57 pm

    Did you know that in 2019, a Lowy survey revealed that 52% of Australians had some degree of ‘trust’ in our relationship with China. Within a year, it had dropped to 32%, and now sits at a lowly 12%.

    So what happened? Did China attack Australia? Did they sail their warships between Victoria and Tasmania, for example? Did they close the shipping lanes between the Chinese mainland and Taiwan (Officially all part of the People’s Republic of China )? Did China exclude Australia from the Belt and Road Initiative which now includes 149 countries and 32 international organisations?

    Any visitor to China or any trader who deals with the Middle Kingdom will attest that China is a Capitalist Nation even though it’s ruled by the Chinese Communist Party. That’s some irony. Modern China became ‘great’ via capitalism and will (probably) become the world’s greatest economy all via the opposite of Communism. Yet there are those who fail to appreciate that.

    The American Empire currently reigns supreme. But is in decline. The evidence abounds. Even within the, the political ‘common sense’ is under attack. The Citizens are losing faith. Why, even a former President (and potential candidate in the next election) is facing jail time. By the way, being a prisoner is not sufficient grounds to annul his bid. Go figure.

    So why is China so much on the nose? Too many ruined rice dishes? etc etc. Or could it be the case that the superstructure of the Australian ‘State’ (broadly defined) has bought all its power to bear to construct that particular reality ?

    It’s now all around us. China IS bad! America IS good! ‘Tis the mantra of our times.

  26. October 6, 2022 7:16 pm

    Seems like ‘free speech’ has strict limits – even in the “Land of the Free”.

  27. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 6, 2022 7:59 pm

    It’s all a big conspiracy, and only people like MN can see it

  28. October 6, 2022 8:29 pm

    Remember ToM didn’t think it was a “proxy” war.

    Other beliefs include:

    That NATO and the USA weren’t involved in the Ukraine battle ground.

    That Victoria Nuland didn’t organise the election outcome.

    That the American Empire (or indeed any Empire) plays fair.

    That the American Empire didn’t know the Nord Stream pipelines were to be destroyed in an act of industrial “terrorism”.

    That the Gulf of Tonkin saw North Vietnamese warships actually attacked a United States warship,

    That Saddam had nuclear weapons.

    That the Sydney Harbor Bridge is for sale.

    And so it goes. It’s why “democracy” has its problems.

    But always good for comic relief, Lol.

  29. October 6, 2022 11:01 pm

    So what to make of the ‘fact’ that Ukraine’s ‘urgent’ application to join NATO was dismissed within hours? Does it indicate that there isn’t going to be any (overt) NATO intervention in Ukraine?

    Certainly, the ‘call up’ of 300,000 troops with previous military experience will impact the overall military balance to Russia’s advantage. Further, reports claim that another 70,000 men have also volunteered, putting the total strength of the additional forces at around 370,000. A huge increase.

    For the very first time, Russia will have a numerical superiority on the battlefield. That the USA has established a command centre outside Ukraine suggests it is fearing a significant Russian offensive beyond current operations that may include a much wider use of airpower.

    How will the USA respond? Will it raise the temperature as it promised? How will the wider EU respond? Troubled times ahead!

  30. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 7, 2022 9:25 am

    Anal bead cheating is something that chess players do!
    And I thought it was a dull game! https://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2022/10/06/hans-niemann-report-magnus-carlsen/

  31. TB Queensland permalink
    October 7, 2022 11:28 am

    Anal bead cheating …

    I’m sure, splats, can give you the ins and outs of check-mating …

  32. TB Queensland permalink
    October 7, 2022 11:43 am

    An elite private school that charges $25,000 a year to educate seven-year-olds is under investigation into possible misuse of taxpayer funds

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/state/nsw/2022/10/07/kings-school-sydney-funding/

    Surely this needs a Royal Commission … its a national problem … all you have to do is look at any religion based private school to see how they flaunt the wealth … private buses, buildings that put the Taj Mahal to shame …. One local catholic high school has simply built out a village shopping centre – on top of a hill overlooking the sea …

    What fascinates me is Indians … wearing turbans … taking their kids to the local catholic primary school … ?? 😳

  33. TB Queensland permalink
    October 7, 2022 11:47 am

    One for MN … 😉

    US raid in Syria kills Islamic State commander

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2022/10/06/us-raid-syria-kills-islamic-state-commander/

    Now if it was China?

  34. October 7, 2022 2:24 pm

    “Pauline Hanson’s One Nation and the Australian Christian Lobby are among 20 groups identified as Australian far-right hate and extremism groups in a new report by a global anti-hate think tank.”

    https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/10/07/one-nation-australian-christian-lobby-global-project-against-hate-extremism/

  35. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 7, 2022 8:20 pm

    2007: “So even the rain that falls isn’t actually going to fill our dams and our river systems,” – Former Climate Commissioner Tim Flannery

  36. TB Queensland permalink
    October 8, 2022 10:17 am

    Build more dams! Release Cubby Station’s dams.

  37. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 8, 2022 2:26 pm

    My point was Tim Flannery was a false prophet. Would not surprise me if State govts stopped building dams because they were told it would never rain again and the dams would never fill.

  38. October 8, 2022 3:00 pm

    TB – when the USA goes to War, the MSM reports (over optimistically) that it keeps ‘winning’ on a daily basis. Until it doesn’t!

    In Afghanistan, the ‘winning’ streak lasted for 20 years and then suddenly, almost out of nowhere, it lost big time. Then departed quickly. Leaving much behind.

    The story keeps changing. Often radically.

    But the West’s MSM doesn’t always report.

    In Ukraine, the nuclear plant that generates 50 to 60% of the nation’s total electrical production is now in Russian hands but there seems to be no reports to that effect.

    As Kissinger said: “To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal”.

    The problem for Australia is that we are now their “bestest” friend.

    (We need a truly independent foreign policy. We need BOTH the USA and China in the Pacific region.)

  39. October 8, 2022 3:44 pm

    NoS – Flannery is a ‘scientist’. And contrary to popular opinion, science is NOT about truth. While ‘science’ is (probably) the best way we have of knowing, ‘science’ is theory dependent. As the ‘theory’ changes/develops/evolves, so does the scientific findings.

    The closest we get to Truth (with the capital T) is Mathematics and Logic. Areas of intellectual activity produce consistent results over time.

    Of course, there are those who believe that Truth is handed down from ‘above’ but in epistemological circles that is known as Faith.

    Those who are involved in the sciences (including) the medical profession often forget that. The better Practitioners recognise that they are offering “opinions”. albeit the best advice that is currently available.

    But the “punters” just simply want the truth and the politicians just give them what they want. Most people can’t handle uncertainty.

    Nevertheless, imagine if a politician answered a question with – I don’t know!

    In our ‘democracy’, it is expected that politicians will ‘know’ and will speak the ‘truth’. So who’s ultimately to blame? The ‘politician’ (who pretends to ‘know’ all things) or the ‘voter’ (who expects politicians to be ‘know all(s)’?

  40. TB Queensland permalink
    October 8, 2022 4:02 pm

    MN, As Kissinger said: “To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal”.

    And Henry would know! He was a mover and shaker in the White House during The American War … I didn’t visit VN until 2014 but it had a big impact on me, my wife and my daughter in 1970 … and since!

    I continue to promote Kissinger’s book “On China” …

    Three generations of my family (almost four!) have had experience with the USA and their “wars” … none spoke highly of them.

    Still as Uhtred says … “Fate is inexorable” …

    Always thought it was amusing that the USA constantly criticised European countries over their colonialism/gunboat diplomacy and imperialism …

    We need BOTH the USA and China in the Pacific region.

    But do they BOTH need Australia?

    How to bring that about would solve many problems in the Pacific …

  41. TB Queensland permalink
    October 8, 2022 4:07 pm

    Most people can’t handle uncertainty. Or the truth … vis a vis … kneel 😎

    … imagine if a politician answered a question with – I don’t know!

    I keep waiting … however, the MSM would have a field day!

  42. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 8, 2022 4:10 pm

    MN

    Flannery is from the left of politics. So therefore, he is a false prophet.

  43. October 8, 2022 4:34 pm

    NoS – From what side of politics does “stupidity” come? (Just trying to classify accurately. So please oblige.)

    TB – Australia, India, Japan and the USA are all members of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue (QSD), commonly known as the Quad.

    Yet India seems able to straddle (diplomatic) barbed wire fences with comparative ease. Perhaps because it’s self described as a Sovereign Socialist Secular Democratic Republic – with Sovereign being the operative word?

    Perhaps it’s not politically possible? What with the AALD and those who willingly attend.

    Too many important issues presented without choice.

  44. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 8, 2022 4:39 pm

    MN

    Misleading and deceiving people comes from your side of politics.

    BTW do you know Menzies/Coalition took WW2 debt from 90% of GDP to ZERO by running surplus budgets??

  45. October 8, 2022 5:10 pm

    For the last time (and with links):

    Menzies’ “irresponsible profligacy” began, running budget deficits for the last nine years of his reign.

    Between 1958-59 and 1966-67, Menzies averaged budget deficits of 1.8% of GDP. His biggest deficit of 3.3% of GDP in his final year in office was larger than the last Swan deficit, which the Abbott government has called a “disaster” and a “budget crisis”.

    … Tax grew steadily under Menzies as well. The tax-GDP ratio rose from 19.6% of GDP to 21.2% over his time at the helm. Because tax didn’t rise as fast as government spending, the Commonwealth deficit grew steadily.

    As budget deficits are typically funded by government borrowing, they usually result in an increase in public debt. Menzies had been paying off wartime debt early in his term, but debt increased to be at 41% of GDP when Menzies retired.

    https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/menzies-a-failure-by-todays-rules-ran-a-budget-to-build-the-nation

    Perhaps ‘comprehension’ is the real problem? So here it is in MSM (Year 5 reading age) language.

    “Too few people realise that a cash deficit of 120 million [pounds] … will of itself have a most expansionary effect,” he said.

    “We shall pay out to the citizens 120 million [pounds] more than will be collected from them.

    … this is adventurous finance.

    “Add to the deficit the tax refunds now being made, and it is clear that purchasing power in Australia this financial year will be uncommonly high.

    “The real task of any government today, as well as of the business community and all sensible citizens, is to get that purchasing power exercised.”

    Yes it was uncomplicated Keynesian logic. So why wasn’t the punter(s) angry? Because Australia’s economy, like economies in other western nations, grew strongly in the post-war period. Often called a “Golden Age”.

    In the 1940s, Australia’s average growth rate was 3.8 per cent. In the 1950s, it was 4.2 per cent. In the 1960s, it was 5.3 per cent.

    It wasn’t peculiar to Australia! Further, the ratio of debt-to-GDP shrank dramatically, too.

    But “evidence” and “explanations” matter not does it NoS? Your mantra must be preserved at all costs.

  46. October 8, 2022 5:30 pm

    Speaking of “sovereign” India (and its tourist trade).

    Has the USA ever issued a tourist advisory about travelling to the USA?

    From the comments: Arnav Carpenter – 51 minutes ago.
    Last year more people were murdered in New Orleans with a population of 400k than in Mumbai with a population of 20 million. The travel advisory should be issued other way around.

    But Empires have a way of making you an offer that you can’t refuse. Lol.

    (Want to join NATO?)

  47. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 8, 2022 6:02 pm

    For the last time (and with links):

    Richard Denniss second graph shows govt debt was ZERO in 1971. How did Menzies take govt debt from 90% of GDP to zero while running deficit budgets?

    Fact is Menzies ran surplus budgets and Richard Denniss is not to be trusted.

  48. October 8, 2022 6:33 pm

    NoS – In an imaginary Budget (all budgets are predictions remember), it is predicted that $100 is to be raised (income) and predicted $102 is to be spent (expenditure).

    So am I budgeting for a (predicted) ‘surplus’ or a (predicted) ‘deficit’?

    Over to you! Simple question to open – so simple answer please.

  49. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 8, 2022 6:58 pm

    MN

    It would be really nice if you could speak English. But after being told for years that Menzies ran deficit budgets while taking govt debt to zero i found this article.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/31/the-amazing-thing-about-the-2022-budget-how-clearly-it-reveals-the-governments-death-throes

    The first graph down the page shows Menzies was running large surplus budgets. It is not possible to run deficit budgets and reduce govt debt

    Greg Jericho’s graph is titled

    It’s the longest we’ve gone without a surplus since WWII… does it matter?

  50. TB Queensland permalink
    October 8, 2022 7:37 pm

    (Want to join NATO?)

    Don’t want to join anything … just wanna be left alone … a general opinion methinks, of ordinary folk around the world … unless they were all good liars!

    From third world to first world … wouldn’t it be nice if politicians actually listened to folk – all over the world …

  51. October 8, 2022 10:43 pm

    Re:

    just wanna be left alone … a general opinion methinks, of ordinary folk around the world …

    Agree! The average “punter” doesn’t really care. But if a “democracy” is to “function” with “active and informed citizens” (as outlined in the National Goals for Schooling), then effort is required. Indeed, hard work is required.

    As Professor Shawn Rosenberg pointed out a few years ago:

    Democracy is devouring itself … We’re to blame … as society’s “elites”— experts and public figures who help those around them navigate the heavy responsibilities that come with self-rule—have increasingly been sidelined, citizens have proved ill equipped cognitively and emotionally to run a well-functioning democracy.

    As a consequence, the center has collapsed and millions of frustrated and angst-filled voters have turned in desperation to right-wing populists.

    Right-wing populist politicians took power (or threatened to) in Poland, Hungary, France, Britain, Italy, Brazil, Sweden and the United States. The “Golden Age of Democracy” has gone.

    Democracy needs people who respect different viewpoints, and those who are ‘different’ (who don’t look, or speak like them and have different attitudes and values). Importantly, it requires voters who can (consciously) make moral judgements via processing large dollops of data to separate the Right from the Wrong and the Good from the Bad. So it requires thinkers who are prepared reflect, speak out and then act.

    Not sure I’ve met too many of these lately. (Present company excepted.)

  52. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 8, 2022 10:48 pm

    MN

    Here is the diagram from Greg Jericho’s Guardian article that show Menzies was running surplus budgets. Not deficits as your link says.

    https://www.datawrapper.de/_/3h8rZ/

    Are you willing to admit Richard Denniss may be wrong?

  53. October 8, 2022 11:14 pm

    Possibly well past NoS’ bedtime but in the morning, perhaps?

    When a Treasurer gets to his/her feet and delivers/announces/brings down a Budget that predicts a Deficit – but – due to unforeseen circumstances (such as revenue was much greater than predicted/expected while expenditure was less than predicted/expected) which resulted in a positive ‘bottom line’ (read surplus) then is this Treasurer (in retrospect) described as having delivered a ‘surplus’ or a ‘deficit’ Budget?

    In short, should a ‘surplus’ or ‘deficit’ Budgets be evaluated by ‘prediction/intention’ or by ‘actual outcomes’? And why.

    Thus, should Menzies be praised (or condemned) on what he ‘intended’ or what the ‘outcome’ was?

  54. October 8, 2022 11:22 pm

    NoS – don’t want to rain on your tea party but you now introduce the concept of budget balance.

    That’s a different measure or metric.

    It’s important that you use precise language.

  55. TB Queensland permalink
    October 9, 2022 12:01 pm

    Importantly, it requires voters who can (consciously) make moral judgements via processing large dollops of data to separate the Right from the Wrong and the Good from the Bad.

    You mean, I take it, this mish-mash of information and BS.

    Labor to air decision on stage three tax cuts before the budget

    Momentum is building for Treasurer Jim Chalmers to make changes to the stage three tax cuts as the opposition accuses the government of “breaking a promise” at the election.

    As if the Liberal/National Coalition is squeaky clean in “breaking promises”.

    Dutton opposes paring back stage-three tax cuts, saying it’s about ‘whether you can trust’ Labor

    Bit rich, he’s where he is because voters can’t trust the LNP.

    Growing number of Australians want the stage-three tax cuts scrapped, poll shows

    And not just voters!

    Momentum is building for Treasurer Jim Chalmers to make changes to the stage three tax cuts as the opposition accuses the government of “breaking a promise” at the election.

    See, to me, its a no-brainer … and slipping economy due to a pandemic and a war in Europe, China flapping its wings and North Korea firing off missiles like bonfire rockets add to that shortages of labour and therefore raw materials and produce/products and Australia needs an income … from rich folk as well as the plebs … even some rich buggers believe that!

    Recently millionaires from different countries signed a petition under the name “Millionaire for Humanity” demanding their respective governments to raise taxes on them to help with the coronavirus pandemic. More than 80 individuals have signed the letter, and most signatories belong to the developed nations like the US, UK, and Germany. One of the key aspects of the petition is that taxes can only create a huge impact against charitable contributions, no matter how generous these contributions are. It might be a rare and historic moment to witness wealthy individuals quoting “Tax us, Tax us, Tax us” to fund the social sector like health, education, and security. The phrase “rebalance our world through wealth tax” seems like a unique moment of truth for the wealthy to play their part towards humanity.

    When life gets tough … its always the poorer end of society who pay – with blood, treasure or both!

  56. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 9, 2022 1:07 pm

    MN

    I am not sure you are talking about. But people say Menzies/Coalition ran deficit budgets while reducing WW2 govt debt to zero. Greg Jericho’s graph shows that Menzies was running surplus budgets.

    I don’t think it is possible to run deficit budgets and reduce govt debt. It is a good reason to not trust everything you read.

  57. October 9, 2022 3:27 pm

    TB – in days gone by, I saw the winning of an election as simply the means to an end. A Party had to be successful at the ballot box so that the Policy could be implemented. But my view has changed. Now I see the means (the election victory) as the end in itself.

    Seems to me that Albo is also of that view. He won a particular election, and will now govern in a particular way so that winning the next election becomes what it’s all about. The means have become the ends. There is little or no distinction between means and ends..

    Putting that cynical view aside, the tax cuts should not proceed. Effectively, “break the promise”. But shift the blame elsewhere – over time.

    Commission another root and branch tax review, but this time be very careful to make sure that the commissioners are drawn from across the political spectrum. There’s enough on the conservative side of politics who would be willing to serve. Make it a big deal – with plenty of publicity, public hearings in major centres, interim reports etc.

    In the final analysis, Albo must be seen to be responding to “independent” findings. So – politically – he must first create a particular demand. (Follow not lead – at least in the public mind.) Have (independent) others ‘build the case’ so Albo can’t refuse. So Albo can’t be irresponsible and ignore this massive Report. So he must be responsible by reacting positively to their recommendations.

  58. October 9, 2022 4:07 pm

    NoS – Josh Frydenberg intended to construct a Budget that produced a ‘surplus’. That is he intended that the revenue would be greater than the expenditure. (Even commissioned some coffee cups in celebration.)

    In construction any Budget, many assumptions have to be made. (After all – it’s an ‘unknown’ future that is being ‘guessed’ or ‘estimated’ at.) It is assumed that revenue/income will be (estimated) at a certain amount and it is also assumed that outlays/expenditures (also estimates) will also be a certain amount. Both are ‘guesses’ (albeit ‘educated’ guesses.)

    When the Budget is delivered in the Parliament, the Senate then looks at the Budget figures more closely. It’s called the Senate Estimates Hearings.

    In Senate estimates hearings, senators question government ministers and senior public servants about government spending, decisions and programs outlined in the Budget. The hearings, which are open to the public, are conducted by the 8 Senate legislation committees. Such hearings are also televised.

    In an ‘expanding’ economy, the estimates (of revenue) made tend to err on the low side. Hence, what might have been predicted to be a ‘deficit’ Budget can become a ‘surplus’ Budget.

    Menzies in his second reign (term) lived in such (expanding) times. Frydenberg wasn’t so lucky. The economy contracted.

  59. TB Queensland permalink
    October 9, 2022 8:11 pm

    MN

    So he must be responsible by reacting positively to their recommendations.

    Not sure there is enough time to organise a “commission”, I like your concept, but time is now of the essence … and while I admire Albo’s “honourable” approach to the conundrum … he has to be more pragmatic … the folk who will benefit from a disastrous LNP decision are NOT the ones who will vote for the ALP anyway. In fact the burden of supporting the country would once again fall on those least equipped …

    Once again … from a management perspective, a no brainer … look after your troops (voters) … not senior management.

  60. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 9, 2022 8:20 pm

    MN

    I am not sure what you are talking about. There is a graph going around showing Menzies/Coalition ran deficit budgets while at the same time reducing govt debt. It never made sense to me.

    Greg Jericho’s graph show Menzies ran surplus budgets. It is a good lesson not to truth everything you read. That graph showing Menzies ran deficit budgets is wrong.

  61. October 9, 2022 9:15 pm

    TB – you’re probably right about the absence of time.

    Nevertheless, it appears that there’s a recession on the horizon and it’s probably going to be both deep and long-lasting if the pundits are to be believed.

    So, assuming that the government wants to abandon the tax cuts, then it’s essential that any bad economic news (eg negative growth) is given wide publicity. Albo must paint the (economic) picture that to proceed down the ‘tax cut’ route would be the height of irresponsibility.

    Probably need a mountain of “mea culpas” but that’s to be expected.

  62. Tom R permalink
    October 10, 2022 9:44 am

    But shift the blame elsewhere – over time.

    At the moment, I think they are are happy to let the media (and oppositions) run around making claim and counter claim. It is actually ‘having a dialog’ in the #auspol manner, ie, screeching headlines.

    There have been many informative articles though amongst the screeching, and, hopefully, these will filter through the most. It is also enlightening to see the ridiculous headlines reminiscent of the Great ‘Carbon Tax Lie’ which have been absent for the past decade, and which, considering Labors formal position on Stage 3, is unchanged, is peak murdoch

    And then I just saw this 🙂

  63. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 10, 2022 10:11 am

    I’m betting the government will reneg and cancel the tax cuts.
    I’m ok with that.
    I also think they should increase the GST to 12.5% and apply it broadly
    It’s a better way to take the edge off demand than interest rate increases.

  64. Tom R permalink
    October 10, 2022 10:21 am

    It’s a better way to take the edge off demand than interest rate increases.

    yea, nah. At least interest rates are easily adjustable. And, the ‘demand’ is going to push those closer to poverty into poverty.

    In this case, the Government needs to find a way to stop business from gouging customers, and using piss weak excuses like ‘transport’ or ‘wages’ as an excuse to feather their own nests. This is a profit led inflationary problem (created in a large amount by gifting $Billions of taxpayer dollars to big business under the guise of ‘jobkeeper’). Now, we are all (except those businesses) paying the piper.

    No, I have no idea how to achieve this 😦

  65. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 10, 2022 11:10 am

    Compensate those that require it.
    A GST increase will be important to long term budget repair and well as limiting demand in the short term.
    I also think it will be less likely to cause a recession. It spreads the burden more widely than interest rate increases

  66. Tom R permalink
    October 10, 2022 11:13 am

    A GST increase will ….. send more people into poverty. What part of that is difficult to comprehend?

  67. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 10, 2022 11:16 am

    A 2.5% increase won’t, and did notice I said “compensation”?
    There will be more in poverty through mortgage default and unemployment

  68. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 10, 2022 11:51 am

    Muslim women don’t rate very highly on the totem pole of victims. Especially when they are being oppressed and murdered by muslim men.

  69. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 10, 2022 11:53 am

    Chickens For KFC:

  70. TB Queensland permalink
    October 10, 2022 11:59 am

    dog bless Alan Kohler…

    Absobloodyfuckinlutely!

    One of Kohler’s best pieces too!

  71. Tom R permalink
    October 10, 2022 12:00 pm

    A 2.5% increase won’t

    Of course it will, even you cannot be that slow

    and did notice I said “compensation”?

    Isn’t it better to ‘compensate’ by not charging the lowest paid in the first place, and charging more from those who can afford it better?

    There will be more in poverty through mortgage default and unemployment

    Why not just ‘compensate’ [sarc]

  72. TB Queensland permalink
    October 10, 2022 12:00 pm

    Compensate those that require it.

    Could you expand on that concept, ToM?

  73. TB Queensland permalink
    October 10, 2022 12:01 pm

    Thanks for the “ad break” … splats … 🙄

  74. October 10, 2022 1:12 pm

    Re Kohler and:

    Russia is destroying itself with the most disastrous invasion since Napoleon took his army into Russia in winter.

    The writing of legitimate History must involve “facts” but that’s only part of the story because History, of necessity, also proceeds via the “selection” of facts.

    Kohler chooses to bring Napoleon into his factual narrative which has legitimacy because his invasion of Russia did happen a little over 200 years ago (circa 1812) but he might also have mentioned the Polish invasion of 400 years ago (circa 1610) when the Kremlin was also occupied. Both of these historical events figure prominently in Russian history AND in their national psyche – kept alive through their education system.

    Further, Alan might also have chosen the ‘fact’ of the German invasion of June 1941 (Operation Barbarossa) which resulted in the deaths of 26 million Russians (a number greater than Australia’s current population) and probably the cause of many more deaths than any other events. Not a Russian family remained unaffected and changed the demographics for generations.

    One wonders why Kohler chose not to feature that (German) ‘fact’ in his history. After all, Germany’s GDP is the largest in Europe and 40% greater than Great Britain and the total number of deaths to date (on all sides) pales into comparison.

    Another ‘fact’ not mentioned (but crucial to insight) is that ALL of these invasions came across the plains of Ukraine. Little wonder that Russia warned as early as 3 April 2008 (Bucharest Summit) that NATO expansion (read the USA) into Ukraine would be the deepest of ‘red lines’.

    Little wonder also that when the Constitution of Ukraine was amended (September 2018) to seek membership of NATO and the EU (as a central goal and the main foreign policy objective) that the Russians felt obliged to act.

    Yes History is so insightful and selective. Often, because of what is NOT chosen nor included.

  75. October 10, 2022 1:31 pm

    Also of interest (re Britain’s current economic woes) is the historical (ideological) prediction made in The Spectator (5 October 2013) under the headline – Why Britain’s economy will overtake Germany’s

    … the biggest surprise would perhaps be this: a gradual realisation that the UK is on track to become the largest economy in Europe. … As the recovery gathers steam, we are likely to out-perform the rest of Europe.

    And that will change the way this country is perceived, both by global businesses and by investors.

    If the UK manages to combine faster growth with better demographics, we should overtake Germany somewhere between 2025 and 2030.

    One suspects that Truss isn’t re-reading.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-britain-s-economy-will-overtake-germany-s

  76. October 10, 2022 1:51 pm

    Amazing that you can still this video in Australia. In the USA, censorship’s on the rise which is strange because the USA is NOT at war! Or is it?

    Not that many (any?) will watch it.

  77. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 10, 2022 2:31 pm

    What’s the point of that? Every view about Putin, the US, NATO in the entire spectrum of opinion has an expert to support it.
    Do you understand that MN? Is your preferred expert more expert than all the other experts?

  78. October 10, 2022 2:39 pm

    Perhaps, one of the most lofty aims of any education system (and perhaps the hardest to achieve) is to enable people to escape the limitations of their own background(s). And that includes constraints such as the social and the cultural.

    It’s these socio-culturalties that bind which shape our common sense. The means through which we construct our reality and the lens through which we see the ‘other’.

    Using our perspectives, it’s so easy to see the stupidities and irrationalities 0f these ‘others’ while, at the same time, being blinded to our own. After all it’s so natural, right, good and sensible to have the same attitudes and values that we have.

    Yes all people – regardless of where and how they live – should be just like us. And then we would all be happy evermore.

  79. October 10, 2022 2:41 pm

    ToM – perhaps you have a link(s) to your ‘expert(s)’ that you would like to share?

  80. Tom R permalink
    October 10, 2022 3:00 pm

    Could you expand on that concept, ToM?

    It’s simple. If you were to tie a carrot to a string at the beginning of each work shift, and, at the end, move that carrot to the next string in line, then, should you work two shifts, you may be able to trick the string into giving you part of that carrot. Presto. Compensation!

    But no matter what, if you were to purchase said carrot, you are going to pay at least 2.5% more. Except, as we all know, they will add in the entirety of the production chain of that carrot on top of their 2.5% increase, plus their quite necessary 2.5% increase in their profit margin.

  81. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 10, 2022 3:09 pm

    Has Mearsheimer got dementia, too? He makes a few good points but:

    Obama is not president.

    John McCain is not calling for using military force in Ukraine because he his dead!

    I think the Yanks are happy to arm Ukraine because:

    • Doing so diverts massive amounts of money from taxpayers to defence industries who look after compliant pollies with donations and jobs;

    • US lives are not directly at risk even if >100k Ukrainians die;

    • The war weakens Russia;

    • It also weakens Europe economically.

    I don’t think the Americans even care if Ukraine wins. They would be happy for the conflict to continue as a war of attrition. They seem to give the Ukrainians just enough weaponry to stay in the fight but not enough for decisive victory.

    I wonder how Russia will respond to the attack on the Crimea Bridge? Could be a big strike.
    https://en.defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/fd2634186a4d1b78.webp

  82. October 10, 2022 3:21 pm

    Speaking of experts, in Australia we have the Australia Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI). It’s the ‘go to’ source for the MSM (including the ABC) when international/global conflict issues are being discussed.

    It prides itself on being (wait for it) an independent, non-partisan think tank. “ASPI remains independent in the content of our research and in all editorial judgements “.

    So independent that it: receives funding from Australian and overseas Governments as well as industry and civil society groups .. . No prize for guessing which overseas government pony up the dollars.

    In more detail: 38% from the Defense Department; 25% from Federal Government Agencies; 25% from Overseas Government Agencies; private sector 3% (including defence contractors) and then there’s 1% from the University sector.

    https://www.aspi.org.au/about-aspi/funding

    Make no mistake the USA is the most all encompassing hegemon there’s ever been. And they are very good at what they do. (What with more than 800 bases in 80 Nations …)

    My objection is not so much that it exists (besides there’s nothing I can do about that), my over-riding concern is that the vast bulk of Australia’s active and informed citizens (LOL) seem unaware or don’t care.

    And perhaps more importantly Australia is providing over-enthusiastic support for an Empire that’s in accelerating decline.

    (Looked at what’s happening across the world these days?)

  83. October 10, 2022 3:44 pm

    Splate – congratulations because clearly you watched the video and identified the errors. (Some parts were produced some time ago because he’s on the historical record as having predicted these happenings since 2014).

    As for – “massive amounts of money from defence industries”. Yes the government of the USA is the very best than money can buy. And when Biden asked for $35 billion, the Congress up the ante to $45 (?) because it’s a nation whose economy is so war dependent. Good for jobs to spend more on the military.

    And yes, it’s the perfect war for the USA. Plenty of arms (on a lend lease basis as I understand it. Europe/Ukraine will ultimately pay.) No American blood being spilt. (So the USA will fight to the death of the last citizen of Ukraine.)

    The war weakens Russia and the EU. Sure does. See Leo Strauss for the ‘rationale’. And then there’s the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines that the USA had nothing to do with. LOL. (But the Germans were told NOT to buy Russian gas.)

    And as Antony Blinken pointed out – It’s now an opportunity to buy gas from the USA at many multiples of the Russian price. Lucky Germany!

  84. October 10, 2022 4:05 pm

    But what would a military leader of the USA know?

    The truth is that a nuclear armed Nation can ONLY lose if they choose to. That should concern us all.

  85. October 10, 2022 5:56 pm

    Re:

    .. preferred expert more expert than all the other experts?

    Hopefully that’s the case. But actually that’s a very important question.

    So what makes an ‘expert’? First, to be an expert, one has to understand how the ‘discipline’ (broadly defined to include relevant theories and the like) evolved to where it is today. In short, an expert has to understand the history (of the discipline). To appreciate the how, when and why etc of where all aspects of the ‘debate’ have been, where it’s been modified, improved upon, abandoned, revised, where it’s likely to go etc.

    Simply, an ‘expert’ is across the debate to use the jargon.

    Note that an ‘expert’ doesn’t have to agree with anyone or everyone. That would be ridiculous. No, an ‘expert’ should at least understand the (rational) competing points of view and be able and willing to analyze what are perceived to be ‘strengths’ and ‘weaknesses’ of competing arguments

    Second, an ‘expert’ should be a leader of the debate. Able and willing to offer new theories that identify new ‘facts’, give particular ‘meanings’ to those facts as well as offer new synthesis. And so on and on ….

    (As an side. Decades ago, a fundamentalist school ‘taught’ students to respond/answer questions in History dealing with the how, when and why etc of ‘events’ by asserting that it was all – God’s will.
    Do such responses deserve the reward of the relevant credential? Is it an ‘expert’ opinion being presented?)

    Closer to home. Greg Sheridan is regarded as Murdoch’s so-called ‘expert’ on ‘foreign affairs’. On numerous occasions, he asserted that Putin has/had nothing to fear from NATO. Lol.

    Sheridan is a good example of what an ‘expert’ isn’t.

  86. October 10, 2022 8:53 pm

    Explosions across Ukraine today is further evidence that the “boiling of the frog” continues. Should be of much greater concern than that expressed in Australia.

    Is an ever accelerating supply of more and better weapons a realistic response? Should Australia continue down that path? Why aren’t we offering to mediate? Is it because the USA (having spent so much effort generating this conflict) doesn’t want it to end? Is Zelensky allowed to call for a ‘cease fire’?

    And so it goes.

    Of course, the USA could remove its metaphorical gloves and (probably/possibly) defeat Russia IF warfare was confined to conventional weapons. But would that happen? Do nuclear powers ever limit themselves to defeat on home soil?

    What effect would that have on a USA whose Citizens are tired of War?

    (Just watching Marles fumble and bumble his way through a 7.30 Report interview. Albo won’t fear any challenge from that quarter.)

  87. October 10, 2022 11:01 pm

    Are there lessons for Australia to learn? Do Empires go on forever?

    And if not, then why is Australia behaving as it does?

  88. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 11, 2022 9:09 am

    “Is an ever accelerating supply of more and better weapons a realistic response?”

    Giving Ukraine missiles capable of striking deep into Russia would be irresponsible. Because …. “a nuclear armed Nation can ONLY lose if they choose to.”

    If Ukraine is not given parity of arms with Russia then it will be forced to surrender.

    Suddenly, Elon Musk’s proposed compromise doesn’t look so bad.

    The US will continue to drag the conflict out by providing more of the same armaments, more lives will be lost and Ukraine will not achieve a better outcome.

  89. TB Queensland permalink
    October 11, 2022 10:41 am

    Here we go again! 😖😲😖😲😞

    Australian troops could help train Ukraine’s armed forces following Russia’s “appalling” attack on Kyiv, Defence Minister Richard Marles has declared.

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/europe-news/2022/10/11/australia-troops-ukraine/

    The arrival of the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam (AATTV) in South Vietnam during July and August 1962 was the beginning of Australia’s involvement in the Vietnam War.

    https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/event/vietnam

  90. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 11, 2022 12:11 pm

    Interesting take from Daily Kos (which has good reporting on Ukraine):

    Is Putin deceiving us in Ukraine? If so, what’s next?

  91. TB Queensland permalink
    October 11, 2022 12:34 pm

    Interesting take from Daily Kos (which has good reporting on Ukraine):

    “Reporting”? Or speculating?

    The comments say it all …

  92. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 11, 2022 12:43 pm

    Clearly speculating and clearly “out there”. Interesting speculation just the same.

  93. Tom R permalink
    October 11, 2022 1:34 pm

    The US will continue to drag the conflict out by providing more of the same armaments, more lives will be lost and Ukraine will not achieve a better outcome.

    And around we go.

  94. October 11, 2022 2:09 pm

    One would think that Russia’s ability to land missiles in so many large cities in so many different geographic locations says much. As I understand it, about half of the missiles were destroyed BUT the other half arrived as planned.

    If I were in residence I would be somewhat concerned.

    Re:

    If Ukraine is not given parity of arms with Russia then it will be forced to surrender.

    Or at least, request a ‘cease fire’ – to be followed by ‘peace talks’. But there’s a few difficulties (to say the least).

    Volodymyr Zelensky says he wants to reclaim all territory including Crimea – populated largely by ethnic Russians and part of Russia since 1783 and only ‘gifted’ to Ukraine (1954) while it was part of the USSR.

    That’s not going to happen because Russia want continued access to the Black Sea and is paranoid about being surrounded by NATO. It’s NATO encirclement that’s at the root cause of this ‘war’. Was stated by Putin back in 2008 as the ‘red line’ as affirmed by Merkel and the US Ambassador to Russia at that time.

    Putin made no effort to annex or take territory from Ukraine while it was in control of a ‘friendly’ government. He wanted Ukraine as a “neutral” (buffer) Nation in the manner of Sweden and Finland. A bulwark against NATO expansion.

    That’s also (apparently) off the table because both Sweden and Finland applied to join NATO. Worth pointing out that their membership is being held up because ALL current members must agree. Turkey’s Erdogan wants some promises fulfilled re the Kurdish KKK’s presence in Sweden before he will agree.

    Then there’s some Russian ‘gains’ that won’t want to be ‘undone’. While our MSM doesn’t mention it, in the Territories that voted to join Russia there has been any number of ‘discriminations’ of (ethnic) Russians by (ethnic) citizens of Ukraine, relating to language (in education, the media, government services etc). They are now part of Russia and that’s not going to change either – unless a nuclear Nation loses to a non-nuclear.

    So it’s going to be very difficult to unscramble these eggs because both Russia and the USA can’t be seen to lose – or at least lose face.. (Ukraine – in itself – simply doesn’t matter. It’s just the meat in the sandwich.) So how will it end? Who knows?

  95. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 11, 2022 2:24 pm

    Unconscionable attacks on civilian targets:

    Not Ukraine – NATO’s nightly bombing of Belgrade.

  96. October 11, 2022 2:30 pm

    Re sending troops to help train the citizens of Ukraine.

    NATO has been training the forces of Ukraine (to NATO standard) since 2014.
    and they did a very good job as the Russians discovered in the early stages. Here’s the video evidence.

    Surely as a ‘Vassal’ we are not going down that path again! Since World War 11 Australians have taken part in Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan and the ongoing “War on Terror”.

    Time to go on the streets again. (Not that it achieves anything and it doesn’t do anything for the Soul because I don’t believe I have one. Lol)

    Only bright spot on the horizon might be to have Marles doing the selling. He might be our best chance. Got to be good for something.

  97. October 11, 2022 2:59 pm

    Splatterbottom re the bombing of Belgrade.

    Went to Serbia (stayed in Belgrade for a week or so) a few years ago. Then travelled further around the Balkans (Montenegro, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia and then on to Slovenia).

    Many of those bombed buildings were still standing, perhaps as a powerful reminder of very dark days. Drove through the countryside and viewed the bullet pocked farmhouses. Sometimes – it was neighbor against neighbor who had lived peacefully for decades.

    Needless to say there was a dash of religious hatred in the mix. Serbian Orthodox versus Croatian Catholic. But a beautiful part of the world overflowing with sites of historical significance.

    Good that NATO is there to keep the peace. Lol.

  98. Tom R permalink
    October 11, 2022 3:41 pm

  99. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 11, 2022 3:42 pm

    I would like to visit the region, MN.

    Although I’m Catholic I think that the Serbs were selectively maligned, especially when you look at the ethnic cleansing in the Krajina area.

  100. October 11, 2022 5:00 pm

    Arrived (rather early) at Belgrade’s Nikola Tesla Airport from Thailand via Istanbul. Booked a taxi to the City at an agreed price who then drove us all around the city showing us the various sites – with a strong emphasis on Novak Djokovic’s (everything). The Restaurant he bought for his father etc etc. He certainly is the national hero.

    The Temple of Saint Sava (Serbian Orthodox) is a must see (among the largest in the world). Then there’s the Roman ruins, in particular Diocletian’s Palace in Split etc.

    Certainly a beautiful part of the world.

    Not religious myself but have some understanding of a few religions because in many ways, it’s impossible to understand the World and its History without appreciating same.

  101. TB Queensland permalink
    October 11, 2022 7:43 pm

    Some of the Youtube vids on cliff climbing are worth a watch!

    Electric utes are finally being shipped to Australia. They’re about to boom in popularity, report predicts

    But what about Aussie weekends! No charging stations on K,garie!

    😁

  102. TB Queensland permalink
    October 11, 2022 7:45 pm

    Although I’m Catholic I think that the Serbs were selectively maligned

    You should have a chat to my Bosnian neighbour one day …

  103. TB Queensland permalink
    October 11, 2022 7:50 pm

    Certainly a beautiful part of the world.

    The World is beautiful from desert to ice and everything in between! I often wonder when we will be “discovered” by an alien … culture … we may then have a bit more sympathy for Australia’s First Nations … (empathy’s good but ya can’t beat sympathy!)

  104. TB Queensland permalink
    October 11, 2022 7:52 pm

    Not religious myself but have some understanding of a few religions … it’s impossible to understand the World and its History without appreciating same.

    Agree …

  105. TB Queensland permalink
    October 11, 2022 7:54 pm

  106. TB Queensland permalink
    October 11, 2022 7:55 pm

  107. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 12, 2022 11:23 am

    I see that Albanese is considering a request from Zelensky to provide training for the Ukraine military.
    It’s interesting that those saying “stay out of it” are often one or more of the following –
    * Green types that are myopic and insular about foreign policy, but take a world view about the environment.
    * Anti vaxers
    * New style fascists
    * Old fashioned communists
    Being anti western democracy is no longer a sign of being left of progressive. It’s now a coalition of weirdos
    Welcome to your cohort MN

  108. October 12, 2022 11:29 am

    This is gold…! 😆

    “The Victorian Liberal Party’s in-house lawyer has resigned, sending a damning email saying she could no longer work with the party’s campaign leadership team, who she accused of ignoring her legal advice that some of their decisions may have broken the law.”

    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/liberals-top-lawyer-quits-over-party-s-legally-risky-decisions-20221011-p5bowh.html

  109. TB Queensland permalink
    October 12, 2022 1:22 pm

    It’s interesting that those saying “stay out of it” are often one or more of the following –

    I see you deliberately “forgot” particularly — ex-serving members, too …

    Asked any Diggers? Probably don’t know how … try asking one of the 5,800 Australian homeless ex service personnel …

    Did you read my comment @ TB Queensland permalink
    October 11, 2022 10:41 am

    See you at the next Dawn Service …

  110. TB Queensland permalink
    October 12, 2022 1:24 pm

    To all the monarchists out there …

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/11/ministers-may-face-legal-action-documents-queen-hidden-wealth

  111. October 12, 2022 2:07 pm

    Did you know that:

    NATO nations, however, buried their heads in the sand as the war wreaked havoc across Ukrainian cities. Despite pledges, not a single NATO soldier arrived to fight for Ukraine; the country is now in ruins.

    So while not a single NATO soldier arrived to fight for Ukraine and not one (officially) from the USA either, ToM wants to shed the blood of other Australians. How very brave!

    While NATO (read USA) plotted and planned this war since 2008, it was envisaged that it would be blood from Ukraine that would be sacrificed first. Ukraine would be the meat in the USA versus Russia sandwich.

    An uninformed keyboard warrior of the highest order!

    Further:

    Helsinki cannot bother to transform into another Ukraine for the sole purpose of joining NATO and receiving Article 5 protection. This is the reason why it is testing waters and denying NATO’s bid to take on Russia in the Baltic Sea any time before it receives the proper membership. We must say, it is smart of Finland to not throw itself blindly out in front of a military superpower just for the interest of the Western World.

    https://tfiglobalnews.com/2022/10/11/finland-rejects-natos-ambitions-of-creating-a-nato-sea-against-russia/

    Perhaps ToM urged Australia to send troops to Vietnam, Iraq, the Gulf and Afghanistan. Did he volunteer? Did he urge his ‘own’ to step up? Does “bone spurs” feature?

    Did you know that Ukraine is regarded as the most corrupt Nation in Europe?

    Did you know that there is widespread protests across Europe urging Nations to leave NATO?

  112. October 12, 2022 2:20 pm

    Not only sacrificing lives but also appropriating Treasure. And it can all be traced back to the work of Leo Strauss.

    If only people would do the hard work, and give Democracy a chance.

    But it’s far easier to sit at home and dream on.

  113. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 12, 2022 2:37 pm

    MN meets 2 of the criteria

  114. October 12, 2022 3:28 pm

    So what might be next in this war? According to Escobar – Russia’s Shock’n Awe (not to be confused with the USA’s same name effort in Iraq) will likely progress in three stages.

    First: Overload of the Ukrainian air defense system (already on).

    Second: Plunging Ukraine into the Dark Ages (already in progress).

    Third: Destruction of all major military installations (the next wave).

    Ukraine is about to embrace nearly total darkness in the next few days. Politically, that opens a completely new ball game.

    Considering Moscow’s trademark “strategic ambiguity,” this could be a sort of Desert Storm remixed (massive air strikes preparing a ground offensive); or, more likely, an ‘incentive’ to force NATO to negotiate; or just a relentless, systematic missile offensive mixed with Electronic Warfare (EW) to shatter for good Kiev’s capacity to wage war.

    Or it could be all of the above.

    But perhaps it’s already too late to negotiate?

    (And it’s into this theatre of war that some want to send Australian soldiers. Now IF we tried a real democracy – where the Citizens make the big decisions – that potential life ending choice wouldn’t be made by those who weren’t going to be there. Who would never be there.)

  115. October 12, 2022 4:06 pm

    Mark Latham is at it again. He proposes to resign from the NSW Upper House (he is less that half way through his 8 year appointment) – thus creating a (casual) vacancy to be then filled by another PHON Member to serve the remainder of that term.

    All perfectly legal up to this point. (But from here it gets a little tricky.) Because he then he proposes to run again.

    Not exactly turning water into wine BUT turning one Member into two is still not a bad trick.

    If it’s legal, the possibilities are mind blowing.

  116. October 12, 2022 5:36 pm

    At least someone (The Electric Jesus)is trying.

    Perhaps they will send Boris to silence him!

  117. October 12, 2022 7:58 pm

    So Zelenkyy rang Albo and asked him to send Australian Troops so that they could train troops from Ukraine. One wonders whether Albo asked a few questions?

    Like – why now? It’s been publicly acknowledged that NATO’s been training large numbers of troops from Ukraine since 2014 (now 8 years), up to NATO standard, with NATO weapons, utilising USA strategy, intelligence, advice etc.

    So are you (Zelenskyy) blaming the NATO training methods, strategy, advice, fitness etc? Have you told NATO that the Australians are coming (perhaps to replace them)? How did they react? Did they suggest, that calling in training troops from down under, might have an adverse impact on NATO morale? That it might be seen as insulting?

    Are you (Ukraine) aware that Australian troops won’t be actually entering Ukraine? (They will be forbidden as also agreed by Dutton). If so, then will you change the decree than bans/forbids ‘men of fighting age’ from leaving the country? Will it be like Russia? Open borders? Free to come and go? We’ve all seen those Russians fleeing and while we know that your people wouldn’t run away, some might be tempted.

    After all, the Australian Army trainers say that shouting orders, employing facial grimaces and making physical gestures and the like, from across, say, Poland, might not be effective, particularly when hand-to-hand combat skills are to be included in the curriculum. (By the way we don’t have too many who communicate using your language.)

    And so it goes. This is a Monty Python skit in the making.

    Surely the Australian Citizens, and high ranking Military Commanders, are sick and tired of politicians using defense personnel for cheap political stunts?

    If not – then they should be.

  118. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 13, 2022 3:43 pm

    I see the United Nations General Assembly has voted 143 to 5 to condemn Russia’s annexation of Ukraine territory.
    I believe that represents a majority

  119. TB Queensland permalink
    October 13, 2022 6:14 pm

    I believe that represents a majority

    You’re not sure? 😎

  120. October 14, 2022 9:36 am

    “When we look at the public debates on the rights of trans folk to play sport or access education, when we look at the scapegoating of LGBTQI+ people in the interests of a party, political narrative, [or] the marriage equality postal survey, they affect people, they create trauma and they embed a sense of being ‘other’.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/14/victorias-208-lgbtq-suicides-to-be-outlined-for-the-first-time-in-new-report

  121. October 14, 2022 10:46 am

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  122. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 14, 2022 3:04 pm

    So the NY Post was cancelled off Twitter for telling the truth about Hunter Biden’s laptop. Any accountability there?

    The FBI instructed Facebook to censor discussion of said laptop. Any accountability there? Did the FBI officer report an in-kind donation to the Biden campaign perhaps?

    Graeme Norton, stupid woke mongrel that he is, is unlikely to say anything even vaguely challenging to the establishment elites and is thus in no danger of being cancelled.

  123. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 14, 2022 3:12 pm

    “the rights of trans folk to play sport”

    Trans folk have every right to play sport. The objection is to biological males destroying women’s sport and, in many cases, injuring women into the bargain.

  124. Tom of Melbourne permalink
    October 14, 2022 6:07 pm

    Odessa Humor:
    Monia, what’s going on in Odessa?
    You know. Here Russia is fighting NATO. Russia lost its cruiser, 70,000 troops, 200 aircraft, tanks …
    How is NATO holding up?
    NATO has not arrived yet.

  125. TB Queensland permalink
    October 14, 2022 6:12 pm

    I wonder? Treason or sedition … OR both! 😎

    §2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

    Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

    Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

    Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

    Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

    If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

    As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

    (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, §2, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 87–486, June 19, 1962, 76 Stat. 103; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, §330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

    Roger Stone discussing the need for violence after the 2020 election, before 6 January 2021, the day of the deadly Capitol attack.

    “Let’s just hope we’re celebrating,” Stone said, in footage obtained from a Danish documentary film-maker.

    “I really do suspect that [the election result] will still be up in the air. When that happens, the key thing to do is to claim victory. Possession is nine tenths of law. ‘No we won, fuck you. Sorry, you’re wrong, fuck you.’”

    In another clip, Stone said: “I say fuck the voting, let’s get right to the violence.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/13/roger-stone-jan-6-hearing-video-violence-documentary

  126. TB Queensland permalink
    October 14, 2022 7:44 pm

    No wonder we admire Putin

    We? Whose WE?

  127. TB Queensland permalink
    October 14, 2022 7:44 pm

    BTW, ToM, that’s pretty old news!

  128. October 15, 2022 2:13 pm

    Did you know that:

    Prime Minister Liz Truss is facing the imminent threat of being thrown out of office by her colleagues

    Yes, she is being thrown out by her colleagues. Not by the Citizens (who didn’t elect her in the first place.) Not by Members of her Party (who did elect her.) But by her colleagues.

    So we now have it confirmed that Ms Truss (in the final analysis) is dependent on her colleagues and not the Citizen voter who never get the opportunity to elect (or not) the PM in the first place.

    Perhaps one day we’ll give an actual ‘democracy’ a genuine try via empowering the electorate as a whole to decide who the PM will be?

  129. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 15, 2022 3:20 pm

    MN

    What is so great about Democracy? I guess you want me, TB of Queensland, Reb and yourself running the country?

  130. October 15, 2022 5:46 pm

    NoS, when it comes to religion should we all be treated as equals? Can we all (males/females etc) be Popes or Archbishops?

    Can we all be Professors? What about Olympians? Jockeys? Weightlifters? Doctors?

    So why should we all be ‘voters’?

  131. TB Queensland permalink
    October 15, 2022 7:51 pm

    I guess you want me, TB of Queensland, Reb and yourself running the country?

    Yep!

    Unfortunately — … you want me, TB of Queensland, Reb and yourself running the country? YES!

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    So why should we all be ‘voters’?

    Maybe a bit tricky for, Kneel … 😏

  132. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 15, 2022 9:18 pm

    People. I think people used to say majority rule led to mob rule.

  133. TB Queensland permalink
    October 16, 2022 10:19 am

    Kneel, you do a lot of “thinking” … but none of it makes sense …

  134. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 16, 2022 4:03 pm

    TB

    I don’t think people thought until recently that democracy would be a good idea. It was said majority rule would eventually lead to mob rule.

  135. TB Queensland permalink
    October 16, 2022 7:23 pm

    Kneel, which one would you prefer?

    Better still, what is your “thinking” …

  136. Tony permalink
    October 17, 2022 6:15 pm

    There is no perfect form of government. The best I can hope for is to have fewer things decided by government(s), and more things affecting me decided by me. Who, for example, could disagree with “my body, my choice”? That went out the window during the pandemic, however, in the name of ‘not killing granny’. Turns out the vaccine didn’t make you immune, or stop you spreading the virus. Yet tens of thousands were ostracised from society and many lost their livelihoods. All for making their choice about their bodies.

  137. reb of Melbourne permalink*
    October 17, 2022 7:47 pm

    ‘ Turns out the vaccine didn’t make you immune, or stop you spreading the virus. Yet tens of thousands were ostracised from society and many lost their livelihoods. All for making their choice about their bodies.

    Turns out a lot of people who didn’t get the vaccine are dead. Go figure.

  138. October 17, 2022 11:06 pm

    Re:

    … no perfect form of government

    In much the same way as there is no perfect school, hospital and the like? Or is ‘government’ a particular concern?

    On the subject of health matters and in reference to wealth and health of nations –

    The U.S. represents 4% of the world’s population but records 25% of global covid deaths, 23% of covid cases and 35% of all Monkeypox cases

    Further:

    Covid finished off 1.04 million Americans, the highest toll of any nation and hardly an advertisement for the public health system in the heart of the Exceptional Empire. Compare that to China’s 5200 covid deaths out of a population of 1.4 billion.

    Lots of ‘freedom’ to die in the USA with Congress refusing to fund further vaccine research but always willing to find extra dollars for wars.

  139. October 18, 2022 10:01 am

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  140. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 18, 2022 10:51 am

    Better still, what is your “thinking” …

    Apparently there have been 3 main forms of govt in history. Monarchy (govt by one), aristocracy (govt by a few people) and democracy (govt by many). They all had their good and bad points. Democracy was considered the worst because democracies bad point was that it would lead to anarchy.

    The thought is you want components of each form of govt so the bad points in each form may be balanced by the good points in each form of govt.

  141. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2022 2:04 pm

    “Mayday! Mayday! We are sinking … ”

    German cargo boat … “Vot air you zinking about?

  142. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 18, 2022 2:17 pm

  143. Splatterbottom permalink
    October 18, 2022 2:49 pm

    Why? Because he aligns with ALP values:

  144. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 18, 2022 7:12 pm

    Apparently there have been 3 main forms of govt in history. Monarchy (govt by one), aristocracy (govt by a few people) and democracy (govt by many).

    BTW in 1776, Britain had that form of govt. They had govt by one (King George 111), Govt by few (House of Lords) and govt by many (House of Commons). And there was some sort of balance between the Crown, the Lords and the Commons. As a govt there has been nothing like it in human history.

    I think when the Brits went somewhere they took the democratic part of their govt (House of Commons) with them and left behind the hereditary bits.

  145. October 18, 2022 7:31 pm

    This Jay Tharappel sounds like a really interesting fellow. His studies are fascinating as evidenced by this topic –
    “How declining Currency Hegemony leads to War”

    Suspect he’ll be bored out of his head at a Branch Meeting. Must have another agenda, with ALP membership just a means to a loftier end.

  146. TB Queensland permalink
    October 18, 2022 7:40 pm

    (House of Commons) with them and left behind the hereditary bits.

    Thank christ for that!

    BTW the House of lords includes senior clergy … of church of England … so much for “inclusion” …

    Currently, 26 Bishops from the Church of England have an automatic right to sit in the Upper Chamber of the British Parliament (‘the Lords Spiritual’).

    Note: Amusing the way you reply to yourself …

  147. October 18, 2022 7:59 pm

    NoS – Currently, scribes preaching for the American Empire like to employ a simple binary model when describing government.

    Good government is labelled “democracy” while Bad government is branded as “autocracy”.

    So Russian and Chinese governments are labelled as “autocratic” (because they are Bad) while British and American governments wear the “democratic” descriptor (because they are Good.) QED.

    The fact that both the Chinese and Russian governments are somewhat popular while the British and American governments are polling in the basement is dismissed because ‘everyone knows’ (called common sense) that ‘democratic’ government OUGHT to be more popular than ‘autocratic’ ones.

    And so it goes.

  148. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 18, 2022 8:10 pm

    MN

    You are the one preaching democracy. You said this

    Perhaps one day we’ll give an actual ‘democracy’ a genuine try via
    empowering the electorate as a whole to decide who the PM will be?

  149. October 18, 2022 8:26 pm

    NoS – Not sure that “democracy” is the best form of government because, to date, we haven’t given it a genuine try.

    We have the technology that would allow all Citizens to vote on every important issue. Whether Australia should have gone to war in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan might have been regarded as an important issue. Same sex marriage gave Citizens an opportunity to vote (sort of). How did that turn out? Did the world end?

    What about spending $160 to $170 BILLION on submarines to be delivered well into the future. How do you think that vote would go? What about giving additional money to students who already receive that 4 times the national average?

    And so on

  150. Neil of Sydney permalink
    October 19, 2022 12:08 pm

    OK lets give it a go. How do you think it would turn out?

    Fact is people vote Labor because they are greedy. They want this that and whatever for free from the government.

    That is why people voted for Whitlam. ALP policies always fail because they do not believe people are greedy.

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