Rostrum: Melbourne Etiquette Edition
Etiquette. It’s a foreign concept in Queensland, and only familiar to NSW residents who live in Malcolm Turnbull’s electorate of Wentworth. However, here in the “World’s Most Liveable City,” good manners and general politeness reigns supreme.
So much so that our much admired Lord Mayor Robert Doyle, despite being a former Liberal MP, is held in high esteem amongst the local community for his staunch support of all things artistic, cultural, gay friendly and sophisticated (again, concepts that would be alien to anyone from Brisbane or the Gold Coast).
For the benefit of visitors who may not be familiar with the charm and sophistication of Melbourne, the Lord Mayor has kindly prepared a list of things that are generally regarded as “UnMelburnian.
LORD MAYOR ROBERT DOYLE’S THINGS THAT ARE UNMELBURNIAN:
1. Disparaging Melbourne
2. Not giving up your seat on a tram for the elderly, infirm or pregnant
3. Spitting and swearing in public
4. Pretending not to know the AFL Grand Final, the Australian Grand Prix, the Melbourne Cup or the Australian Open Final are happening today
5. Women dissing black
6. Men wearing ties with their top button undone
7. Men with bushranger beards wearing shoes without laces and socks
8. Not embracing the daggy
9. Not embracing the sophisticated
10. Grumpy, complaining old men like me
I’m sure we can think of a few others…
theguttertrash.com 
I’m sure we can think of a few others…
11. South Australians (thank FUCK)
12. Hand-balling
13. Not Stealing Sporting Events!!!! 🙂
14. Men (generically)
15. Women (specifically)
Isn’t – Melbourne Etiquette – an oxymoron?
Good job its a Rostrum and the deception will soon fade out and fade in to how bad this current government is …
I mean what can you say about Melbourne … ?
It’s in Victoria and half full of Mexicans …
the other half are lost in Queensland looking for “The Place to Be” … fucking half-wits … there already in the place to be … we just direct ’em to Taswegia …Actually that’s way too much …
” It’s in Victoria and half full of Mexicans ”
Look it’s not just me. I had dinner with some people the other night (Chinese New Year) celebration, and as per usual the conversation eventually rolled around to politics and where the best place is to live in Australia.
Without any prompting from me whatsoever, one of the guests (who I had just been introduced to that evening) said “Oh I could never live in Queensland, it’s just full of white trash and rednecks…”
Naturally I concurred, and we talked about people like Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce and we laughed and laughed and laughed…. 🙂
LOL!
“and we talked about people like
Pauline Hanson and Barnaby JoyceTB of Queensland and we laughed and laughed and laughed….”LOL @ ToM… 🙂
Melbourne has the ideal climate for drinking a good red.
Brisbane has the climate for beer, Sydney – chardonnay
Perth? Who knows or cares?
“and the deception will soon fade out and fade in to how bad this current government is …”
No
It was the previous govt who trashed our borders.
It was the previous govt who trashed the budget.
It was the previous govt who trashed our relationship with Indonesia.
The current govt is having trouble fixing up these problems.
Melbourne gentlemen know that one always buttons one’s jacket when standing, and unbuttons it when seated. One fastens only the top button of a two-button (single-breasted) jacket, and the middle only, or top two depending on lapel type, of a three-button jacket.
Not following dressing etiquette is Un-Melburnian.
Perhaps some of you who ridicule “Tewwawism” might want to scroll through some of these court-room tweets. #Tsarnaev
https://twitter.com/Laurel_Sweet
I concur with your jacket wearing etiquette ToSY..
Also, there is no such thing as a short sleeve business shirt.
In Melbourne a gentleman’s suit is made from the finest quality wool his budget will allow.
In Queensland, the “fabric” of choice is polyester.
In Queensland there is no need to even think about the buttons on a suit, Queensland suits have zips…
Melbourne gentlemen
Isn’t that another oxymoron?
In Melbourne a gentleman’s suit is made from the finest quality wool his budget will allow.
In Queensland, the “fabric” of choice is polyester.
Not so … my suits cost me $600 finest wool … but then I was whelped in the land of the worlds finest woollen mills and worsted …
Queensland suits have zips…
Well everyone knows that NOBODY in qld wears long sleeved anything … looks like something from your wardrobe, ToMe …
Jesus fkn christ that’s ugly …
Mexican peons …
This is a typical “formal wear” “suit” in Queensland. Note the “material”.
http://lowes.com.au/productdetail.aspx?pid=3331
For evening wear, behold your Queenslander’s idea of a tuxedo.
http://lowes.com.au/productdetail.aspx?pid=20692
“”Queenslander’s idea of a tuxedo””
That’s an understated little number..
“Perhaps some of you who ridicule “Tewwawism” might want to scroll through some of these court-room tweets. #Tsarnaev ”
*squirt, squirt
*better accelerate the Police State to make us all feel safe from tewwa
It’s nice to see stripes coming back for the Queensland Autumn collection for gents…
And here I was thinking this was all about etiquette … and gentlemen …
Mexican wannabes … all chat ‘n’ slack …
… fucking hell I can’t see that last photo, sreb! Ahhh … all orange and no blue … 🙂
Wow, thanks reb
I thought me mum had lost that photo 🙂
You’ve gotta wonder about people that can actually find fotos like that? Unless they’re part of a family album … now I know why they call Melbourne the “melting pot” something certainly melting in that photo …
They look like naice friends too … gawd those fkn smiles …
The latest from the men’s fashion show in Brisbane!!
Full Frontal!
These are nice… Very “on trend” for the Gold Coast!
That’s TB on the left!
(now just off to the coast for weekend!)
A nice walk sock will take you a long in the boardroom
sof Brissy.Those photos are oh so gay … LOL!
And as you know gays are not allowed to stay in Queensland Joh says so … giggle!
Oh, that’s disgusting … ugh!
I might have to find a more “wholesome” blog … if there is such a thing!
I will have fkn nightmares tonight!
A Queensland business executive in front of his European luxury vehicle.
These are nice… Very “on trend” for the Gold Coast!
Are they actually blokes?
A Queensland business executive in front of his European luxury vehicle.
The member for Tambo, mate! National Party …
wot’s wrong with that? They’re gonna run ‘im over anyway!
Gawd, I just looked up the thread (chortle!) that’s fkn awful …
What your well-dressed Queensland racegoer will be wearing this Autumn.
WALKSOX PHOTOS 2015! Ha, ha, ha, ha … clever, ToSY ,,, chuckle … 🙂
No wonder I stay at fkn ‘ome, hey?
I wonder if these guys are from Melbourne, and would be allowed in Queensland?
Ok forget the Jap subs we need some of these in the proviso they put the windscreen wipers on the left hand side of the steering column and the indicators in the right.
I note TomR had nothing to say about this today
http://theaviationist.com/2015/03/05/us-aircraft-carrier-sunk-by-subs/
Sweet Laurel provides plenty of fear-squirting from boston
””””””With the guilt of #Tsarnaev now concrete, the cement mixer that haunts him returns to Seaport District.””””””””’
which probably indicates that nervous-teabags would feel a lot safer NOT reading twirter, even teabags the other side of the planet from boston.
#blot.told.me.to.squirt #squirt #squirt #squirt #squirt
Ok”””””””forget the Jap subs we need some of these”””””
Yeah ya`might be on to something there blubbers, tho l`ve seen a doco of aussies training/war-gaming with teh-usa, and our blokes managed to `sink` various us-ships and avoid being `hit` themselves using collins-class canoes.
I note TomR had nothing to say about this today
Why should I, that’s old news 😉
Three of Australia’s Collins class submarines “destroyed” two US Navy nuclear submarines and an aircraft carrier in separate exercises off the Australian coast.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/23/1064082993693.html
pyne is working with yabot to drive the smartest away.
The heads of some of the country’s leading scientific facilities say they were caught by surprise late last year to discover that funding for world-renowned research infrastructure was linked to the passage of university fee deregulation.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/scientists-surprised-by-research-funds-being-tied-to-uni-fee-deregulation-laws-20150306-13xe86.html
Oh, and I hope everyone enjoys their long weekend (and that those who have to work over it get compensated well enough for doing so)
Board stacking: the Labor way.
tough to read
HOME TRUTHS: The costs and causes of domestic violence
http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2015/march/1425128400/jess-hill/home-truths
THE GP CO-PAYMENT BY STEALTH …
The most deceitful government in Australia’s history …
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-05/duckett-we-still-have-a-gp-co-payment-by-stealth/6282094
AND THE WORLD’S MOST INCOMPETENT TREASURER … or how to increase age pension applicants in one easy lesson
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/joe-hockey-raises-prospect-of-first-home-buyers-using-super-to-enter-property-market-20150306-13xe3l.html
lolz sb. The defense that it is not now in is that some previous ones have been made.
That really doesn’t dispute that the policy is NOW() being enacted does it?
Defending the indefensible: myths about the gender pay gap:
http://theconversation.com/defending-the-indefensible-myths-about-the-gender-pay-gap-37919
Some articles you’ll find on the front page ofThe Conversation
http://theconversation.com/au
Climate is an intergenerational issue, but the report ducked it:
Hockey looks to ‘armies’ in Intergenerational Report: experts react:
Superannuation missing from the IGR’s ageing narrative:
Sydney risks becoming a dumb, disposable city for the rich:
TONY’s BEEN IN TOUCH … arrived in my email inbox a few minutes a go …
How can you give tax cuts when the economy is so dire? Surely the govt needs every tax dollar it can get?
The problem is that cerain people are not paying enough tax and others are getting more in tax rebates than they pay out in tax.
And where is the assistance for singles? They seem to be an endless source of tax grabs with no benefit given at all.
The government is clearly not doing enough to collect taxes. It just isn’t fair. The government should tax everyone at 100% and then give a fair amount back to each person. What could be fairer than that?
There is a lot of unfairness in the way fines are collected. The Finns are on to something with this idea: “A millionaire in Finland got a $60,000 speeding ticket”. Everywhere my covetous eyes look there are people with stuff. We should take it off them and give it to people with less stuff then everyone will be happy.
The adults are in charge… Pyne’s (minister for faulty logic and punceism) vindictive Tanty of vile retribution…
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/scientists-surprised-by-research-funds-being-tied-to-uni-fee-deregulation-laws-20150306-13xe86.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-11/fact-check3a-did-labor-cut-2466-billion-from-higher-educatio/5952452
What a huge lot of crap, the long weekend is due to Setka and his mates??!
The Queen’s Birthday is owed to the monarchy? Thanks to god for Christmas. And Easter.
Thanks to horses for Cup Day!
The Vic government is (foolishly) about to proclaim grand final eve a public holiday! I’m grateful to the AFL.
Well I’m grateful to the CFMEU (& precursors) that I’ll be getting paid penalty rates (aggregated in my annualised wage) for the SA public holiday (Adelaide Cup…wgaf about horses or racing them…or Adelaide , for that matter) which I’m rostered to work on Monday.
Governments learn at their peril that the 10million+ people in the workforce are protective of their rights and will exercise their political judgements to protect their benefits.
A political party that thinks the way to success is to make 10million people earn less, easier to dismiss, or work more will find the reality quite painful.
…and with only about 14% of the private sector in unions, they’re not relying on them to provide the protection.
We’re long past relying on the CFMEU to get public holidays.
SO WHAT’S ACTUALLY CHANGED? THE MINISTER’S NAME?
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/pension-needs-to-change-hockey/story-e6frfku9-1227252509649
“…and with only about 14% of the private sector in unions, they’re not relying on them to provide the protection.
We’re long past relying on the CFMEU to get public holidays.”
Shame, YomM, shame!
You seem (deliberately) determined to forget how we (those of us with collective pay & conditions) got where we are. You are very good at targeting the ill behaviours & corruptions of (some) Unions, but neglect the force for progress & ‘The Greater Good’ they’ve been for working people in Australia (over the last century at least) and globally (for much longer).
I know you know better.
I absolutely concur with your first two paragraphs though.
It’s funny, it’s like you can’t bring yourself to give Unionism any credit; quite the jilted lover(?).
Without Unions, the fuckers would be trampling those of us who are productive, roughshod.
In fact, I’d say that “with only about 14% of the private sector in unions, we’re not relying on them to provide the protection” because the hard gotten gains made over the decades by Unionism are now a societal norm which would be taken for granted until removed (which I guess you kinda acknowledge).
All that’s actually changed is they’ve bluntened their rhetoric, TB.
The intent is still the same. They’ve followed that m.o. on all of their contemporary ‘barnacles’ (more like anchors around their political necks). The GP copayment still is . They’re just projecting the illusion that they’ve ‘listened’ & ‘changed’…while anyone who’s actually been paying attention is well aware that before they ‘dumped’ (guffaw) said policies they tried arrogant dismissal, bluster & implementation through parliamentary side & back doors with devious semantic wordplays.
They’ve changed a few faces & brewed up a doctored ‘report’ to try & justify their ideological rationale…but the leopard is still spotted.
I am currently perfecting my VPN skillz. They can stick their privacy invasion & scaremongering up their Big Government Corporate Appeasing arses.
And guess which current Australian PM is darkening my nearest large population centre for two days this coming week?
Yep, that’s right.
Did anyone else see his puke inducing stage managed load of deception & misinformation Youtube communique, released this very afternoon? …gag
And Bolt is publishing verbatim IPA graphs from the IGR without the requisite context or qualifications necessary to paint them in their true light…before Neil uses it here like it’s fucking gospel.
Well toilet Labor does have form. It is like arguing with a brick wall but Labor does not do surplus budgets. They are too addicted to spending usually trying to make out they care for people by spending on this, that or whatever.
I do agree that Unions are necessary but some of their current behaviour appears to be driven by the fear that they are becoming irrelevant.
The current behaviour you are most likely referring to is deliberately publicised by their ideological enemies (and YomM), Neil. The Coalition well recognise that they can hobble their next biggest rival (the ALP) if they can undermine or reduce Unionism to irrelevance.
Like all things, the bigger picture of Unionism is much more layered than just the bad news stories.
Feel free to post
the IPA’sBolt’s graph, but I wonder if you can list the relevant qualifications along with it?Otherwise you’re just disseminating propaganda.
It’s the kind of thing which, if it was the ALP releasing the IGR in such a fashion, you’d be pointing out the obfuscations & logical inconsistencies at MAX Volume. 😉
Otherwise you’re just disseminating propaganda.
The Labor Party has form. It is not propaganda it is fact.
Hawke/Keating, Cain/Kirner, Beattie/Bligh, Brian Burke, Bannon.
Queensland has a bigger govt debt thanks to beattie/Bligh than NSW and Victoria combined.
So, no qualifications on the deceptive, propagandist report & graph then?
I gave you a chance.
You did as I expected…
No. I don’t need to comment on the graph.
I just look at past history.
A leopard never changes its spots.
Quiggin: One neat trick that proves the IGR is nonsense
http://johnquiggin.com/2015/03/05/one-weird-trick-that-proves-the-igr-is-nonsense/
Just had a look at the Quiggan article, KL. It looks like he got his facts wrong. TerjeP explains how in comment #12.
http://johnquiggin.com/2015/03/05/one-weird-trick-that-proves-the-igr-is-nonsense/#comment-253672
“…You seem (deliberately) determined to forget how we (those of us with collective pay & conditions) got where we are…”
I suspect tomM is one of those ‘worst of the worse’ people – an ex union official who has gone over to the other side and now advises (consults) with business on how to ‘beat the unions’ by giving away their secrets.
Is that close tomM?
Unions or not there’s a great swell here and now I’m off for a few reds. I’ll reply when I’m full!
By his own past admissions, I’d say rather likely; although he may claim to be just a ‘business consultant’.
Glad to hear about the swell..and I have a reasonable idea of where that may be too, on a Saturday. Half your fucken luck, my friend!
Tony’s gonna demonstrate why
the IPA’sBolt’s graph is perfectly legitimate & needs no qualification at all… (it’s like those 3 monkeys?)I’m only assuming that they’ve probably previously made a song & dance about the ‘infamous’ ‘hockeystick’ graph…
Bias coagulants…
“Tony’s gonna demonstrate why the IPA’s Bolt’s graph is perfectly legitimate & needs no qualification at all… (it’s like those 3 monkeys?)”
Huh?
“A leopard never changes its spots.”
And yet…other ‘species’ are able to adapt their thought processes beyond the generic, verbatim & partisan.
Your spots run deep. That is not a compliment.
“No. I don’t need to comment on the graph.
I just look at past history.”
Exhibit A…the problem with that being that you only consider the ‘past history’ of one side of the divide.
See none, hear none, do none…those monkeys.
“Well toilet Labor does have form.”
I am not arguing aginst that, particularly.
“It is like arguing with a brick wall”
Yes, you are…
“Tony’s gonna demonstrate …”
I should apologise for lumping you in with Neil. You are definitely capable of reasoned argument.
While I see the creativeness of this ad … I can’t help thinking its tacky considering the subject … maybe it’s the “posing” of the “model”? Or maybe it’s just me …
http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/the-dress-salvation-army-domestic-violence-ad-asks-why-is-it-so-hard-to-see-black-and-blue/story-fnjwnhzf-1227252097261
I always objected to “comedy” in H&S films and posters … people are injured and killed at work …
Like I say might just be me … if the message works it works … was the Salvos ad designed by women or men … ?
No worries.
I just had a look at the graph you’re referring to, anyway. I think your beef with the graph is that it’s anti-Labor propaganda?
If so, I’ve got news for you. It’s not an IPA graph at all. It’s from the Intergenerational Report itself. See here p.49, Chart 2.2.
The only thing the IPA did was change the labelling of each scenario.
That is, they called “Proposed Policy” the “Liberal Plan”; they called “Currently Legislated” the “Status Quo”; and they called “Previous Policy” the “Labor Policy”.
They also added some colour. See here, where the IPA correctly attributes the graph’s source.
not there’s a great swell here is that opinion against you, ToM?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Huh?
I agree, ToSY, there is actually four monkeys … the last one is the killer for The Mad Monk!
Wonder where sreb is … ? Tongue in cheek … er ..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Toiletwet/ToSY
Hear nowt, see, nowt, say nowt and do nowt!
Great quote here from Salman Rushdie…
“Religion has moved out of the private space. In a private space it is nobody’s business, it’s between you and your god. The moment it moves into the public sphere it becomes everybody’s business.
I’m tired of religion demanding special privileges. I mean, you know get over it. There’s no other idea in the world which demands protection.
If ideas are strong they can withstand criticism. And in any open society you have to be able to discuss things in whatever terms you choose.
That’s just the nature of openness; otherwise you’re starting to create a semi-closed society.”
It’s from the Intergenerational Report itself.
Which has become anti-Labor propaganda?
… otherwise you’re starting to create a semi-closed society.”
God forbid!
This is what Beattie/Bligh did to Queensland. You could use this graph for most Labor govts since 1980.
I agree with Rushdie. I wonder who he has in mind that “demands protection”.
“That is, they called “Proposed Policy” the “Liberal Plan”; they called “Currently Legislated” the “Status Quo”; and they called “Previous Policy” the “Labor Policy”.”
How about the way Hockey manipulated the MYEFO to bias against the “previously policy”, among other distorted, deliberately neglected interpolations of that ‘report’. Just why was it withheld for a month?
How many other relevant factors are ignored in a 40 yr (?) time scale. It’s a ludicrous proposition calculated to communicate partisan objectives.
The real concerns are thus lost in the crossfire…
I know exactly whom he refers to.
Does he always condemn an entire religion when he speaks? or just the nutjobs. Discuss…
I doubt he sought to condemn an entire religion by his words above…I’m sure he’s capable of discerning zealots (the ones pursuing the fatwa against him) from the rest (the majority of Islam)…he certainly writes as someone who could ascertain the clear difference.
Okay, see, I thought it was the graph I was supposed to defend. My mistake.
It’s the actual report? Or Hockey?
“I think your beef with the graph is that it’s anti-Labor propaganda?
If so, I’ve got news for you. It’s not an IPA graph at all. It’s from the Intergenerational Report itself. ”
I rather see it as the IPA’s version of Hockey’s version of the IGR.
Just read Quiggins and some of the comments …
Hockey particularly and The Mad Abbott & The Acolytes have not changed their tactics at all … divide – create chaos and manage the ensuing anger … its got Howard & The Private School Bullies all over it!
Rich pricks still trying to control the poorer in our society …
I heard a saying the other night
The poor are the ones who always suffer the most but are the first to give … no truer than in Australia …
BUT …
JOE HOCKEY! The poorer Australians will FIGHT to the END if you try to steal from the poor to feather the nests of the ROBBER BARONS … get that into your head …
This government has taken us back to the 1950’s alright … I can see the street marching now!
“How about the way Hockey manipulated the MYEFO to bias against the “previously policy”, among other distorted, deliberately neglected interpolations of that ‘report’. Just why was it withheld for a month?”
I don’t know anything about that. Can you refer me to your source(s) so I can check it out for myself.
ToSY
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=DK6
“How many other relevant factors are ignored in a 40 yr (?) time scale.”
I have no idea, but you’ve probably seen me speak disparagingly about predictions. I never listen to them. Did you notice last week there was a “consensus” among economists that the Reserve Bank Board would cut interest rates? They didn’t.
He made partisan presumptions which you’d be discarding if made by the Federal ALP whilst in government.
I’ll dig it up on the morrow.
I must repose…
It seems like you may think I’m making shit up…why would I bother?
Did I mention, Abbott is spending two days in my ‘area of influence’ this week? You should read the ‘welcoming’ comments on the local media sites…hilarious. You know he’s shit in his own nest when he’s largely reviled in this, one of the safest conservative seats in Australia…
“It seems like you may think I’m making shit up…why would I bother?’
No but you’re asking me to comment on your assertions, without any supporting evidence. I’d like to see where you got your info from, and check out their facts. It’s usually not too difficult to do.
You should read the ‘welcoming’ comments on the local media sites…hilarious.
Any links?
Y’know one of the things my kids/g/kids have always been taught? Once you have a “reputation” its very difficult to get rid of it … and now I’m about to put that to the test as I pour my second wine … 🙂
“as I pour my second wine … ”
I think you mean “that substance” that you call wine…
Some of us call it turps or nail varnish remover, but to call it “wine” is a wild stretch of the imagination…
#Justsayin
Sounds like Toilet has lost it. Upset that his heroes are shown to be incompetent liars.
Socialists/leftists and ALP types and debt always go together.
But the amazing thing is that at the moment the majority of Australians want to bring back the people who created all this trouble we are talking about.
I think you mean “that substance” that you call wine…
Slightly more “up” than usual – Amiri Sav Blanc …
Your so judgemental …
Kneel’s about to get a good flogging from the Crow Eater, methinks … 😈
I’ve just completed at bottle of 2006 Penfolds 389 and I think it lubricates the brain far better than the Bowlers Run Special Reserve Merlot 2015 (2016?) that TB drinks.
————————–
HD – ”Without Unions, the fuckers would be trampling those of us who are productive, roughshod.”
Maybe, but (in my opinion and more recent experience) successful companies are those that pay employees well and figure out how to get out of the IR conflict model. Cutting wages and conditions isn’t the way to business success. Getting an intelligent, aligned and highly skilled workforce will cause success and people like that don’t undervalue their effort.
It’s one of the reasons that getting rid of penalties won’t work here. Nurses and the self-motivated types that run manufacturing plants at 4am won’t do that for the base rate.
—————-
AO – ”an ex union official who has gone over to the other side and now advises (consults) with business on how to ‘beat the unions’ by giving away their secrets.
Is that close tomM?”
No, I don’t have much to do with IR these days. It’s too conflict ridden and I’m past (ie too old) to put up with the thankless task of trying to salvage efficient operations from the conflict industry (IR).
I’m better at other stuff, but having a union background provides credibility for the other stuff.
An aircraft that is about to take off is no place for any form of protest.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/qantas-bans-student-who-stood-up-for-what-she-believed-in-20150306-13xosl.html
Just had a look at the Quiggan article, KL. It looks like he got his facts wrong. TerjeP explains how in comment #12.
Thanks tony, I don’t know if it’s solved, there seem to be a discussion of it @ # 22 and @ # 28. I guess we’ll find out more when JQ gets back to his blog.
Kneel’s about to get a good flogging from the Crow Eater, methinks …
It will make neil’s day, such a little masochist! 😉
Hi TB
I read a Guardian article about tones making one of his ‘made in office’ videos for youtube, [bravely having comments disabled] in a pitch to voters [just reselling al his usual crap though]
One of the comments was
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/mar/07/tony-abbott-makes-weekend-pitch-to-voters-via-youtube
…Crowey1 20m ago
The usual thing you see under a Conservative Government.
Thousands of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans homeless.
Homeless veterans Image: Support groups for veterans say thousands of diggers who served in Iraq and Afghanistan are living on the streets (Ian Hitchcock / Getty Images)
They’re meant to be war heroes, yet thousands of Australian diggers are sleeping on the streets. The federal government and the states can’t agree who is responsible for funding housing, and support groups for veterans are warning a crisis is brewing. Cathy Van Extel investigates…
Is this a crisis in waiting, do you think? Why isn’t there more of a public airing of it and what do the defence force media and RSL types advocate for if not the returned soldiers?
“” Bowlers Run Special Reserve Merlot 2015 (2016?) “”
Chortle…
SO WHAT’S CHANGED?
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/hockey-stands-by-budget-measures-in-senate/story-e6frfku9-1227253413274
Bowlers Run has gone upmarket in other ways!
Its got a new name – Riverside Landing – how originality! Hey?
Is this a crisis in waiting, do you think? Why isn’t there more of a public airing of it and what do the defence force media and RSL types advocate for if not the returned soldiers?
I’m unaware of “homeless” Diggers in Brisbane (not that I go there if I can avoid it) … I’ve been long aware of how they treat Diggers who are no longer of use to the pollies … that goes back to WWI …
The recent pay rise debacle is an example of the respect pollies have …
I know there is a massive problem with homeless ex-servicemen in the USA … and I knew the issue was beginning to occur here … but we do have more avenues for help …
As for public airing … who knows … it reminds me of the lack of public knowledge re health & safety in the workplace …
The RSL and military associations (infantry units and corps) usually have “welfare” officers but from my personal approaches to a few most are not qualified, lack knowledge, or avoid issues …
The RSL seems to have lost its voice (as members age – VN vets are generally in their 60s – 70s) but I understand that after Iraq and Afghanistan there might be a shake-up with new blood …
Ex and serving ADF members don’t usually kick up a fuss either … even the nashos are generally placid …
When are we going to be told we’re in a recession?
I’ve got a theory about Abbott only doing in office videos and set pieces rather than pressers and taking media questions.
Can’t you see him in his film ‘set’ with peta producing and directing the show? She can’t come out in public anymore so everything has to be controlled from the bunker. A real propaganda show really and credlin is goebbels
I don’t know anything about that. Can you refer me to your source(s) so I can check it out for myself.
You could read the wonderful commentary here as a starting point tosy. It has links 🙂
https://theguttertrash.com/2015/03/02/tony-abbotts-good-government-just-recycled-rubbish/#comment-97801
but having a union background provides credibility for the other stuff.
Better hope nobody pulls a Ricky on ya then.
The GutterTrash cred mincer;)
When are we going to be told we’re in a recession?
When they get someone back in Treasury who can count.
I have a sauce that says gretch is crunching the numbers
😆
https://newmatilda.com/2015/03/06/2055-therell-be-free-money-all-and-every-member-labor-party-will-be-jail
“…But the report is nonchalant about revenue issues – for example it neglects to model the effect of repealing the mining and carbon taxes (its ‘Previous policy’ scenario seems to be based on Hockey’s 2013-14 MYEFO estimates rather than Swan’s 2013-14 budget, thus inflating the claimed deficit under Labor’s policies.)…”
A lot of coincidences going on in jacksonville.
https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/jackson-and-lawlers-guest-list,7449
Yeah, Hockey wants young people to spend their super on buying homes … defeating the foundation concept of super – ie compound interest …
… the LNP doesn’t want to raise the compulsory super to 12% (ideally 15%) but they don’t want to pay the age pension either … hypocrites …
Hockey is twiddle twaddling about, exactly like people do when they have been promoted to their level of incompetence in the real world … a la Peters Principle … ain’t got a clue where or what to do …
… in fact most of the ministers in The Mad Abbott’s government play everything by ear …
… lot’s of talk … Hockey raving about “new technology” arriving almost daily (as if he’s just discovered the interwebby thingy whatsit) and then supported by Turnbull – the comms minister who, between them have destroyed the one big technological and digital infrastructure project of this century – and by fiddling at the edges created a hybrid that will never fly …
All talk wrong actions – if any … the country at present is being played by a bunch of incompetent fools advised by even more incompetent nincompoops …
Australia is slowly being poisoned by backward looking, ideologues …
Not mine…
Jack worm came to conquer this world
we all knew that was his intention
to strip the financialm market to the bone
and he wouldn’t make an exception
Jack was a man with a confidential mind
a great deal of flesh and blood
no doubt about him being the king of the ring
as long as the dough kept coming in
Jack was a healthy man with very steady nerves
his concept was to never think twice
he had the world in his greedy fat hands
he’d succeeded with his made-up device
Jack always wonders what else there’s to buy
worm being worm had it easy to get by
the entire world ate out of his hand
you better figure out away to take a stand
I am a wealthy man
this is just how I am
it’s time to take a stand
this is just my lousy plan
Jack rose from the seat at his desk
pulled aside the curtains for a peak of the street
set down again and smiled wistfully
it all became clear as he said
I am a wealthy man
this is just how I am
it’s time to take a stand
this is just my lousy plan
I am a wealthy man
this is just how I am
it’s time to take a stand
this is just my lousy plan
Fuck y’all (who earned [or not] it) and the horses y’all rode in on…
toiletbosswinsflawlessvictory
That’s nice.
jackworm…
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/nsw-gets-2-bln-from-asset-recycling-fund/story-e6frfku9-1227253399646
So flog assets to create more assets? Are these assets income generating? ‘Cause if they are why would you sell ’em? Golden goose is worth $100 in a fire sale but $100,000 in the next 40 years (projecting the Intergenerational Report!) … sell why?
Oh … porkbarreling! Got Howard all over it!
toilet … I read it thrice … you reading lyrics again?
ToM and I (correct me ToM/) are trying to figure the real meaning? Share with us, bro …
Because no one takes me seriously, Mater Bee…
I take you very seriously!
I only read every comment by a few people here.
Congratulations!!
(or maybe not…)
The green version was posted earlier, but I think this is very TB…
And WTF is jack worm? I looked it up – a ring tone!!>>
The reality
Before the IG Report we had the Budget Emergency for which the Coalition provided a “solution”, tried to crash through and then looked stupid when they could not implement it.
Looks to me like the Coalition is trying a different tactic with the IG Report. Now they are framing the problem as a long term demographic issue and offer their answer as one option, inviting their opponents to either agree or put forward an alternative approach to the issue. Tactically this makes sense. Labor will try to avoid offering an alternative. They have taken a lesson out of Abbott’s “just say no playbook” he employed as opposition leader.
The Greens, having not the slightest clue about economics, will continue with their idiotic demands to give everyone free everything in the benighted belief that if all else fails the fairies at the bottom of the garden will pay for it all.
The reality … I guess that explains all of the above from, ToM … 🙂
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, sb, that’s a neat summary … until you got to this – if all else fails the fairies at the bottom of the garden will pay for it all.
The faery I was chatting to at our fishpond yesterday said to, “Like fk we will!”
SO WHAT”S CHANGED? Hockey has simply proven that he couldn’t operate a piggy bank and his understanding of compound interest (ie the basic concept of superannuation) is … -100
sb, news.com.au have found The Atlantic story re Dabiq …
http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/horrorism-is-the-new-terrorism-why-the-islamic-state-uses-tactics-that-sicken-us-to-the-core/story-fnh81ifq-1227254536294
Slow as shite … hey?
What? Unlike your idiotic generalisations? This is the type of exclusionist language that only the big two have any credibility on economics which is profoundly ridiculous considering the fairytales delivered from the garden of self interest fertilised heavily with pure unadulterated bullshit.
I know you’re big on links… so maybe instead of just making wild assertions with nothing but rusty twaddle you may give it a read….Quite al lot of their policies make good common sense. ae not that radical at all.
http://greens.org.au/policies/economics
http://greens.org.au/economy
The IG report is more like a political propaganda fridge magnet than a tool for prudent fiscal policy formulation…Hokey is already on the pulpit using it for fiberal fire and brimstone fear.
Edward Bernays would be proud
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/joe-hockey-turns-intergenerational-report-into-a-propaganda-weapon-20150305-13wce9.html
The Greens, having not the slightest clue about economics
Same goes for the ALP.
Most ALP supporters do not think our debt is a problem because, thanks to Howard/Costello it is much lower than other countries. But they never say at what level should we allow debt to increase to before we start to worry.
Even worse a lot of ALP supporters believe in Modern Monetary Policy (MMT) which states that countries which have a soverign currency (eg Australia) will never have a debt/deficit problem because the govt can just print money to pay off our debts.
“”Now they are framing the problem as a long term demographic issue and offer their answer as one option, inviting their opponents to either agree or put forward an alternative approach to the issue. “”
Yes, they have framed the “problem” in a different way, however the LNP “solution” is always the same – tax breaks for the wealthy and big business, and lower wages for low and middle income earners..
Good to see news keeping up with the discussion, TB. Never too late, I suppose.
The Wood article was a good attempt to move discussion of Islamic State beyond the idea that they are just a bunch of murderous thugs. Wood has written a short follow-up at The Atlantic and given a long interview with Sam Harris.
Nine-year-old has perfect response to school quiz asking about the ‘three major problems facing Australia’
From Ricky’s link to The Greens:
“”Human induced climate change poses the greatest threat to our world””
The “greatest” threat…? Really…??
I like the way the nine year old got a “tick” for his answers…. 🙂
Labor will try to avoid offering an alternative.
I don’t agree. I think Labor will be offering up solutions, as they have already been doing. It also provides Labor with a perfect opportunity to argue again for their compulsory superannuation, something the coalition have always and probably always will be against.
The Greens, having not the slightest clue about economics
I AGREE
I read their “manifesto”. It sounds likes Labors. Labor, however, temper it with the reality of an industrialised society and free market economics (as free as markets are) This is where the Greens lose their cred, where the rubber meets the road.
“” I read their “manifesto”. It sounds likes Labors.””
I thought it sounded like a dream like utopia where we all love one another and dance through fields of daisies…
What does it take for an official recession to be called, are we there yet?
…A treasurer should never talk the economy down, just as the official forecasters should never be the first to predict imminent recession. Such negativity tends to be self-fulfilling.
So I’m sorry to rain on Hockey’s parade by telling you that “solid” growth is the econocrats’ euphemism for “not so hot”…
…With monetary policy (interest rates) now less effective in stimulating the economy, it would be better if fiscal policy (budgets) was doing more to help, not less…
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/state-governments-need-to-step-up-20150306-13wrao.html#ixzz3TqLW48xM
The fibs come at us again, still doing their best to force their austerity onto australians no-one [other than the brain dead, fully rusted on] is buying the hockeynomics agenda:
Intergenerational report: assumptions about government spending are a confusion of idiocy:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2015/mar/09/intergenerational-report-assumptions-about-government-spending-are-a-confusion-of-idiocy
Ricky, I find it hard to take the Greens seriously. Sarah Hanson-Young is hideous. Of course “tragedies happen” when your murderous policies are implemented. Ludlum is a hypocritical fool – it is loathsome to describe any thing as a holocaust unless you are me or Bob Brown, in which case it is OK. And Lee Rhiannon is a despicable old Moscow-line commo. Anyone who bought into that bullshit should be put out to pasture.
Their response to the IG Report is the idiotic claim that it doesn’t address climate change issues. We’ve already wasted billions of dollars on useless desal plants because of the bleatings of these fools. Wasting more money on the basis of climate models that have utterly failed to predict the last 15 years of no warming is the very definition of insanity.
It is not that I expect much sense from either major party in relation to the IGR. My initial observation was more about the change of tactics by the Coalition.
“Nine-year-old has perfect response to school quiz asking about the ‘three major problems facing Australia’”
This grubby politicisation of children is par for the course from the left. Just like Burnside who wanted little kids to do his dirty work and spit on Abbott.
“”Sarah Hanson-Young is hideous.””
I thought it was quite touching when she cried in Parliament.
“” This grubby politicisation of children is par for the course from the left. “”
“Yes, they have framed the “problem” in a different way, however the LNP “solution” is always the same – tax breaks for the wealthy and big business, and lower wages for low and middle income earners.”
This is the real question. If Abbott has “changed” the test is whether the budget will be more balanced in that regard. Also, it will be interesting to see if Shorten takes up the challenge of offering specific alternatives. The Greens will just say don’t worry, be happy, keep spending and soak the rich.
If Hockey does not limit international profit-shifting, negative gearing, superannuation, the CGT discount and the principle residence exemption then we can conclude he is not all that serious.
Fantastic photo, reb!
I like the way the nine year old got a “tick” for his answers…. 🙂
Yeah, bloody lefty, teachers union member! (From little things, big things grow)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“” This grubby politicisation of children is par for the course from the left. “”
Yep …
…With monetary policy (interest rates) now less effective in stimulating the economy, it would be better if fiscal policy (budgets) was doing more to help, not less…
I posted some information recently that showed the debt to GDP of Greece a generation ago was about where we are now. A couple of decades of relying on the government to do the economic stimulating results in an economic basket case.
Low interest rates can be sustained over time. Stimulus spending can’t.
It also provides Labor with a perfect opportunity to argue again for their compulsory superannuation, something the coalition have always and probably always will be against.
Yeah, Hockey’s created quite a conundrum for himself (most of us get super) … use what little most young people have in super to buy a house … but don’t expect any age pension … as one of my family said yesterday, “So what do you do when you’re retired – eat the tiles?
I thought it sounded like a dream like utopia where we all love one another and dance through fields of daisies…
And what’s wrong with that life isn’t all mardi gras marching you know just because you can’t see the moon rising in your backyard because of all the lights and stuff that you’ve got glaring and using up power like tomorrow never comes and then you light your BBQ and send smoke into the atmosphere and pollute all the neighbours fruit trees bringing joy and happiness to the world making babies cry with smoke in their eyes and grit in their teeth so everybody else has to turn on their lights to seek out the pollutant and chew up another dwindling human resource time doesn’t come in a paper packet you know you have to work in the fields and share the agony and pain of blood sweat and tears – shame on you!
My initial observation was more about the change of tactics by the Coalition.
Which one was that?
Hard to take the green seriously?
With the proliferation of CSG and coal mines across our farm land and aquifers in a drought prone, dry country that is experiencing profound changes in weather and rainfall, you will excuse me if I dot take your comment too seriously….
Its simple.
Without water and food in a habitable environment there is no industry and prosperity…
The green army wont save us from such terrorism…
Totally agree that there is no political will on either side to tackle the big ends intergenerational theft… they are the culprits , not those in the middle and lower brackets returning most of the tax receipts…
This is Fiberal policy advisory and corporate welfare recipient in action… such hypocrisy from a tax thieving welfare recipient is fucking contemptible..
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/gina-rinehart-backs-joe-hockeys-budget-message/story-e6frg9df-1227248317902
Low interest rates can be sustained over time.
No. It leads to stagflation … as consumers reduce their spending, fearful of losing their jobs …
Capitalism works because of interest rates and inflation … oddly enough …
… and one thing that people often forget – low interest rates may be helpful for home buyers (and in the past would often stimulate building) but there is a large proportion of the nation’s population who rely on reasonable interest rates to survive …
Stimulus spending can’t. (be sustained over time)
Its not intended to … it should be seed capital to kick start businesses to employ people who will pay taxes … pushing the multiplier effect to stimulate more spending … that encourages more businesses that then employ more people who pay taxes that … etc etc …
Economics 101 …
The fact that $2Gina backs hockey should have cause for concern for most Australians.
Didn’t the Greens float using super for home loans a while ago?
Hockey, that is just blindingly stupid. Why is the msm not going hard on him for it?
Totally agree that there is no political will on either side to tackle the big ends intergenerational theft… they are the culprits , not those in the middle and lower brackets returning most of the tax receipts…
The IGR is inappropriately named and deliberately so … the issue is not families ie parents/children/grandchildren … its CLASS … the haves and have nots … and as usual the haves don’t want to pay their way …
The age of ENTITLEMENT must surely end … the HOCKEY’s of this world believe they are more entitled than than we are … remove these entitlements:
NEGATIVE GEARING
FAMILY TRUSTS
POST POLLIE PERQS
I don’t think you’ve done Economics 101 TB, because that’s got nothing to do with beginners economics.
What exactly is the economic problem that requires government stimulation right now? Of people think these economic circumstances are temporary and require a government kick start, we will certainly be headed towards huge and unsustainable debt.
We’re now in a long period of low economic growth.
“If people think…”
Hockey, that is just blindingly stupid. Why is the msm not going hard on him for it?
‘Cause they are blindingly ignorant (in the true sense of the word)
Have you seen the photos of the high school kids who pass for journalists these days?
“”And what’s wrong with that life isn’t all mardi gras marching you know just because you can’t see the moon rising in your backyard because of all the lights and stuff that you’ve got glaring and using up power like tomorrow never comes and then you light your BBQ and send smoke into the atmosphere and pollute all the neighbours fruit trees bringing joy and happiness to the world making babies cry with smoke in their eyes and grit in their teeth so everybody else has to turn on their lights to seek out the pollutant and chew up another dwindling human resource time doesn’t come in a paper packet you know you have to work in the fields and share the agony and pain of blood sweat and tears – shame on you!””
TB makes a lot of sense.
“” life isn’t all mardi gras marching you know “”
It isn’t…?
What exactly is the economic problem that requires government stimulation right now?
You worry me sometimes … what’s the unemployment rate? Why is it high? What are miners good at? Infrastructure … get fkn building …
We’re now in a long period of low economic growth.
That statement is the real problem … I started a business in the middle of the 1992 recession …
If you statement is true then good management would be seeking ways to stimulate the economy so it isn’t low!
Get creative!
We have about 6% unemployment and probably the highest standard of living in the world, but with rapidly increasing public debt, and you think the best way forward is increasing public debt?
No, tax …
Based upon jobs …
Some article I read a few days ago … I read too many to remember where, spoke of an average working life as 40 years …
… I figured that 45 years was enough … and paying personal income tax, small business tax, provisional tax (guessing how much before you earn it!) … GST … government licencing fees as an RTO … and now funding the majority of my income in retirement … and thus still paying tax …
Maybe its time for others to swing the pick … what’s youth unemployment at now?
Too many folk telling us how we CAN’T not how we CAN …
Success Comes in Cans … I remember going to this spruiker in the 70’s half day session … hilarious presentation but true … got a qu7estion right and he gave you a little can with a new label … Success Comes In Cans …
Read your history on the old NSW Colony and how the Governors General stimulated the economy … and do you really think that Snowy River Scheme wasn’t a stimulus project?
I reiterate the only inter generational theft going on is from the likes of Gina and the corporate tax evaders…
This idea of perpetual growth is fucking ridiculous…. Its a myth.. perpetual expansion? Oh it was a market correction… reset, start again…
How many recessions and depressions does America (the apparent model for free market capitalism) have to have before people realise this cyclic boom bust manipulation of lending cycles based of fractional banking is pure unadulterated grafting theft.
Western democracy is essentially set up to be run on and operate and be manipulated on debt, borrowing and servicing it. That’s how the “free market” is supposed to work which is a perpetual lie..
Oh they are spending too much…so vote us in and we will borrow and spend more, watch you then move to a cashless society that essentially runs on nothing but debt…
It is evident to me that any political party that does not address our environment:
That is clear air, climate change, sustaining aquifers, water, food production, soil degradation, corporate pollution and industrial waste as the primary concern:
Is heinously guilty of the most extreme inter-generational theft beyond this idiocy of sustainable economic growth… the theft of human sustainability.
This is not a Left issue , its just common sense issue.. there is no capitalism, socialism, political system or “cake”: without an environment, market or consumers to sustain it…
What is the level of debt to GDP you think is appropriate TB?
what’s the unemployment rate? Why is it high?
Actually it is not that high. WE just got used to having unemployment at 4% under Howard/Costello.
6% unemployment was normal from the middle 1970’s till 2003.
Of course unemployment was at 11% when Keating won an election in 1993.
And like it or not, finding new sources of government revenue isn’t a “stimulus”, that’s contraction, in terms of economic jargon.
Also, it will be interesting to see if Shorten takes up the challenge of offering specific alternatives.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-02/multinational-tax-crackdown-would-not-reduce-investment-labor/6274298
http://www.alp.org.au/education?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=&utm_content=clickthrough&utm_campaign=mainpageissues
http://www.alp.org.au/senioraustralians?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=&utm_content=clickthrough&utm_campaign=mainpageissues
😉
What exactly is the economic problem that requires government stimulation right now?
TB answered you best. But, just in case you disagree, then perhaps the Australian Industry Group will sway you?
Australia’s economy is in such a fragile condition the Abbott government ought to provide some fiscal stimulus in its May budget, the Australian Industry Group has warned.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/industry-group-calls-for-fiscal-stimulus-in-abbott-government-budget-20150212-13d3ch.html
””””””””’The Greens, having not the slightest clue about economics””””””
#When did eleventy and mr-rabbit join the greens.?
splattering””””’wasted billions of dollars on useless desal plants”””””’
# Fascinating that teabags always see `waste` when it comes to things that provide benefit or prevent disaster for the population, but don`t blink when it comes to the never-ending cash-bonfires that trotting-off to war is.
That is a relative question.
Why not ask what percentage of Australian operational profits for corporations is realistically being generated into tax receipts?
Theoretically if the sole focus (and measure) of a government is to merely return a surplus without correcting tax evasion to collect revenue then it is clearly failing its social contract with the electorate.
Unemployment statistics are the greatest “non measure” of actual employment, like growth complete frothy econovoodoo fodder for speech writers and jingo journalists.
How can a society progressively sustain an increasing population without investing in the infrastructure to enable productivity? This requires debt.
THe NBN is a great example of how “market forces” would never build it, rather wait till its built by the government then buy it . The NBN is essential infrastructure investment for decentralisation, yet it, like everything the Fiberals get their dirty mits on, it becomes an opportunity for donor pigs in the trough and a fridge magnet byline for fiberal free market political points propaganda.
What is the level of debt to GDP you think is appropriate TB?
What is the level of tax that is appropriate, ToM?
TB””””””””Maybe its time for others to swing the pick ⦠what’s youth unemployment at now?””””’
# That`s not what is going on tho TB. Un/under-employed are just not getting the `break` they need to `progress` in life, about 800,000-unemployed, 150,000-available jobs (nation-wide) (and my guess most are junk-jobs, not living-wage) The problem employment-wise, is biz is rewarded by the ato/govt/s to break-up full-time jobs into various junk-jobs, fraud/kick-backs via dole-office for job-contractors, ponzi-quals and courses, over-intensive interviewing and/or dishonest job-advertising and interviews, these are just some of the `road-blocks` that are being thrown-up to finding work.
+
TB””’Too many folk telling us how we CANâT not how we CAN””
# yeah sure, l understand the keep trying, be positive thing.
What is the level of tax that is appropriate, ToM?
For an accountant, that would be zero, for them (whilst they continue to reap the benefits off others taxation revenue)
#When did eleventy and mr-rabbit join the greens.?
🙂
I beginning to think that ToM may never have had a mortgage … its the best form of good debt in our society … puts a roof over your head, no income waste (you’re actually buying an object that will grow in value), difficult to be evicted and a sound base to go into the world to thrive … a foundation for kids and grandkids to build happy lives from … ask me how I know, ToM … oh, and once you actually own your home you can stop borrowing money … save and invest …
BTW, who ever said that a government should have a surplus?
As RP (and me) have been saying for some time … STOP GOING TO AMERICA’S ill considered WARS!
That`s not what is going on tho TB. Un/under-employed are just not getting the `break` they need to `progress` in life, about 800,000-unemployed, 150,000-available jobs (nation-wide) (and my guess most are junk-jobs, not living-wage)
I’m we’ll aware of that, tbagz, I have two adult/two teen/and one 12 yo … so why does Hockey keep prattling about OLDER Aussies returning to work … ?
I agree the whole mess has been created for political/Robber Baron ends … certainly not to benefit society …
Worry about the economy and kill off society … clever.
Society actually existed long before kings, empires and taxes!
BTW, who ever said that a government should have a surplus?
Our dumbass pollies (fckn Swan too) and their media barons who themselves are massively in deficit.
Didn’t yabot have a cry last time they got booted out because he was so far in deficit personally and his new wage couldn’t cope?
So he extended his mortgage to cope. Why didn’t he simply practice austerity?
Catallaxy has a good post on the difference between private and public debt
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2015/03/08/private-v-public-debt-and-deficit/
“The Commonwealth government has to borrow to finance welfare and redistribution i.e. current consumption, whereas BHP Billiton and other private sector organisations borrow in order to finance current and future production. If and when the private sector gets it wrong those companies go broke and investors lose their money. If and when the government gets it wrong the taxpayers simply cough up.”
yomm””””’What is the level of debt to GDP you think is appropriate TB?”””’
#What makes you think this is even important to most aussies that have just seen govt/s squander `unlimited` amounts on `gulags`, `war` and `war-toys`.?
tb””””””’Hockey keep prattling about OLDER Aussies returning to work””””’
#yeah, it`s a load of horse-shit, they`re still running with john-w`s dumb-arse `work-till`ya-drop` idea, which won`t go anywhere, folks over-40 often struggle already, just shows how deep in fairyland they reside.
If and when the private sector gets it wrong those companies go broke and investors lose their money. If and when the government gets it wrong the taxpayers simply cough up.”
Were you born in 2009?
Government has never been a “business” because it has to service society with its income …
… unlike a business it is NOT a profit centre … (it could be but the government is frightened to put up the prices = tax) …
Unless you consider that we are all shareholders and we get a dividend … we gain when things are good (mining boom = surplus) … we lose when things are bad (GFC = loss) …
And if our shareholdings are mismanaged then we can vote out the Board …
NOW … how many fired boardroom members get paid for a lifetime for six years service?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So what happens when all the jobs have been taken by robots …
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/vision-enabled-robots-to-work-with-humans/story-e6frfku9-1227255145669
We plebs will have no value to the born to rulers …
So he extended his mortgage to cope. Why didn’t he simply practice austerity?
Chuckle … 🙂
Not keen on doin’ just prattle …
But the government can find a spare billion for a new IT system for Centrelink … 😯
… just depends on what Big Brother wants to include in the new “system” … where else would an authoritarian government start its plan to overturn welfare?
You couldn’t write this shite!
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/serious-attention-for-it-system-morrison/story-e6frfku9-1227254679789
“…when the government gets it wrong the taxpayers simply cough up.”…”
What about when private companies get huge subsidies from government? What about when government buys a profit making concern which all taxpayers own and then sell it to a private company without consent?
Yeah we must run a surplus and stop spending is the campaign slogan across “western democracies” until the Illuminati bankers want us to kick the can again…
Nils analogy is hilarious.. considering Rhienhards is trying to borrow 6 billion at a time when ore prices have tanked and wiped 4 bill off the bottom line of her latest project.. whilst holding her hand out for corporate welfare…
Hows the commodity price workin out for twiggy, the bloke with the gold plated toulet seat in his jet that writes reports saying there should be no welfare whilst claing roets and not paying any tax….
Most miners are outright immorally hypocrite tossers.
Companies borrow to expand sure enough but if they don’t have debt they cannot claim tax writeoffs….
This discussion started because of a link posted by AO that suggested monetary policy wasn’t working and fiscal stimulus was required.
TB then showed that he hadn’t attended any Economics 101 lectures.
Stimulus isn’t about new taxes or wealth redistribution. It’s about spending rather than saving.
If we need additional spending now (with 6% unemployment and about the highest living standards in the world) when is it exactly when we will start to live within our means?
“when government buys a profit making concern “
Governments should not own profit-making concerns. They only end up being run for the benefit of unions. Hence the screeching now in NSW about the poles and wires sell down. It is not the role of government to provide cushy jobs for drop-kick unionists.
As to defence expenditure – the first obligation of a government is to make sure the country exists. If Australia is not going to fulfil its alliance obligations then it needs to provide a sufficient military capability to defend the country on its own. I want Australia to have fancy hi-tech weapons like ICBMs and nuclear warheads as much as the next person but the cost would be orders of magnitude more than the total defence expenditure in recent years.
“live within our means?”
What a fascist concept that is. It is the language of repression which only makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. Have you no heart? No soul? No empathy?
Debt is good. The government should give every person a million dollars a year. That would fix everything. And if the government can’t borrow enough they can just tax that ugly baby elephant Gina Rinehart.
Why don’t we just sell the country to China all become multi millionaires and live where we don’t have to pay any taxes …
Governments should not own profit-making concerns. They only end up being run for the benefit of unions.
But they did … the Gateway Bridges have both been paid off over and again … and the second was paid for by the first … its now privately owned … guess who stumped up the money to build the first fucker …
We may as well privatise the ADF too … though why anyone in his/her right mind would want nuclear weapons and delivery support is beyond me …
“live within our means?”
I take it that you are both debt free … no loans, credit card debt? Debit accounts?
They only end up being run for the benefit of unions.
And having been on both sides of the union fence … someone must have really pissed you off one day …
Still Tom’ll give you a mate’s hug … 😦
#As usual, the clap-trap flows freely,
yomm””””””’with 6% unemployment””””””
#and feigned concern is expressed with dodgey numbers that doesn`t convince me or roy, and creates much doubt in it`s own Aust Burro of Surveys,
#but hey, who cares, there will always be some imbecile available to regurgitate meaningless boardroom blather like,
”””’when we will start to live within our means?”””, or the flight recorder battery doesn`t need maintenance, #mh370 and of course it is safe to short-cut over hot battle-fields. #mh17
TB, the reason NSW missed out on $9bn for its electricity assets is that the ALP’s union overlords would not let the sale go through for fear of losing their perks. Things have not changed. The unions are hysterically leading the charge against the poles and wires sale for the same reasons.
Keating, one of the best treasurers, famously wrote to union boss John Robertson about the electricity privatisation issue:
Premier Iemma had proposed the sale in the interests of the people of NSW and Robertson, acting in the interests of the ETU, opposed it. Luke Foley also copped a serve in that letter.
… union overlords would not let the sale go through for fear of losing their perks.
Have you been following the ICAC sittings, sb?
Privatisation has been a disaster in Europe … and so we follow the fkn herd and its a disaster here!
Anyone who thinks that people driven by profit work more honestly than government employees in providing essential services has no real knowledge of what the poor sod have to do …
Unions and their members are not the problem its the fat cats, pollies and their puppeteers …
Union membership has dwindled to less than 15% … in two generations … and you and ToM seem to give them the power of the almighty!
Disproportionate … there are certain utilities that should be government operated … power is one of them …
The Commonwealth government has to borrow to finance welfare and redistribution i.e. current consumption and future productivity , whereas BHP Billiton and other private sector organisations borrow in order to finance current and future production
Fixed it for ’em. Might only be a coupla words, but they make a mighty big difference.
Just ask the schools now leasing out school halls and bringing in cash 😉
Stimulus isn’t about new taxes or wealth redistribution. It’s about spending rather than saving.
I prefer the term “investing”. It encapsulates more of the actual meaning 😉
They only end up being run for the benefit of unions.
You say that like it’s a bad thing? 😯
more splattering”””””””””Governments should not own profit-making concerns. They only end up being run for the benefit of unions.””””’
#yeah splatter, l must say that takes an awful lot of willful blindness there buddy, it seems comm-bank was engaging in quite `predatory` behaviour recently, l am yet to see why it is better for the public that they are gouged by comm-bank for the benefit of a few shareholders, instead of remaining taxpayer owned for the benefit of all taxpayers, yeah was such a `crime` that comm-bank had `living-wage` jobs back then. #ditto telecom, gio, power, water
“Union membership has dwindled to less than 15% … in two generations … and you and ToM seem to give them the power of the almighty!”
Keating and Iemma both wanted the NSW electricity sale to go through. The ETU didn’t. Guess who won? That is $9billion NSW will never now see.
“Have you been following the ICAC sittings, sb?”
Which ones? Where the unions insisted McDonald be pre-selected even though they knew he was shady or the ones where the money-grubbing Libs took the developers’ money?
That is $9billion NSW will never now see.
NSW? The people won’t …
Which ones?
Now your getting it … but you and ToM seem to be a bit picky …
Off to play model trains … most of ’em older’n me – so best I avoid politics 🙂
Have a good one …
Hey Teebz, if you scroll up, you may notice `our` usual suspects comments generally indicate they want to enrich the already rich at any expense, in an as near `absolute-corporatocracy` as possible. Nowhere do they comment that `all` citizen`s lives should be `enriched`, or even `relieved` of any type of burden, whether that be a fair and equatable tax-system, medicare, employment and conditions or personal-liberties. That is why l can`t a `republic` as being better for me, don`t forget to consider the zealots we have in charge at the moment too, l really think they would be fcuking us over much more as a `republic`, not make things better.
Governments should not own profit-making concerns. They only end up being run for the benefit of unions. Hence the screeching now in NSW about the poles and wires sell down. It is not the role of government to provide cushy jobs for drop-kick unionists….
Thats right what about the benevolence of all those fiberal party donors?
Poles and wires were built with public money, it provides income.. NSW will not get 90 bill for it that is bullshit…
Electricity prices , just like telecommunications services will go backwards as will the investment in renewables…
This free market competition pa-lava is just bullshit, no existent
Pretty much every example of “competition” after sell off is a disaster in Australia……
You don’t give any cohesive argument yourself splatter other than the usual.. predictable opinion…
“Have you been following the ICAC sittings, sb?”
Lots of piggies with their snouts in the trough…after opening that can of worms
Glass of grange anyone?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/newspoll/newspoll-tony-abbott-rises-but-labor-has-commanding-lead/story-fnc6vkbc-1227255752885
…TONY Abbott has lifted his approval rating to a three-month high and held on to recent gains in primary support for the Coalition, but he has failed to overcome Labor’s 11-month lead in two-party-preferred terms…
Click to access 962576-150310newspoll.pdf
Keating gives Hockey the blast the msm should have been giving him for what is possibly the worst brain fart in a long line of very brain farts from our pollies.
How the economists in our country aren’t calling for hockey to step down is just amazing imo. He has before shown ineptitude in his job, but to consider, even briefly, moving super into property is just fucking unbelievably stupid. Or, is it just ideologically ignorant?
And Treasurer Hockey’s proposal to let people access their superannuation savings before age 55 is just that – an attempt to pull the plug from the bath to lower the level of compulsory savings.
Whenever you hear the Liberals talk about “choice”, you hear the code word for destroying mandatory savings. Never having had the wit to put such a retirement scheme together in the first instance, they periodically attempt to do all they can to either jam it or damage it. And when they do touch it, it is invariably to do the wrong thing – like Peter Costello changing the taxing arrangements to let wealthy people take large lump sums tax free.
There’s plenty more in that vein from the source.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/hockey-plans-to-smash-a-worldclass-superannuation-system-20150309-13z1gc.html
Hockey is using his ignorance in his defence in court over the “Treasurer For Sale” case. Going on his record, it is believable.
Meetings with the Treasurer offered members a “unique opportunity to inform critical debate”. One promotion said members’ funds were needed to “support Joe going into the future”.
“Well, they overplayed it – massively overplayed it,” Hockey said.
They were merely “marketing lines”, he said. At one point he told his interrogator: “I think you have the wrong person in the witness box, Dr Collins.” He should ask the North Sydney Forum, the Treasurer suggested.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/fairfax-and-treasurer-joe-hockey-square-off-over-fundraising-20150309-13zgm5.html
But, I AGREE, a headline like “Treasurer For Sale” is inflammatory, only talentless hacks would use it.
And I see our “stopping hte boats” comes at a price that some might(?) consider too high?
Australia is systematically violating the international Convention Against Torture by detaining children in immigration detention, and holding asylum seekers in dangerous and violent conditions on Manus Island, a United Nations report has found.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/mar/09/un-reports-australias-immigration-detention-breaches-torture-convention
And, of course, yabots solution is to shoot the messenger.
btw, if we have “stopped the boats”, why are we buying more to send them back in?
Allowing people to use their super savings as a deposit for a first home loam sounds like a recipe for disaster.
All it’s going to do is prop up (if not further drive up) house prices.
The market is arguably already overheated with a combination of
1. low interest rates
2. SMSF funds able to purchase investment properties
3. Off shore buyers buying into new developments
It’s not like we need a fourth factor to further fuel the market.
If people are allowed to use the super savings (as Hockey suggests) to buy property all it will invariably do is artificially drive prices hire, further alienating first home buyers, and encourage first home buyers to take a mighty gamble that house prices will continue to rise.
When the bubble bursts (and it will), those people will be left with massive mortgages, negative equity and zero retirement savings.
It all just sounds like a massive plan to create a new underclass of impoverished citizens. Only a Lib mindset could dream up such a scheme and think it was “a good idea…””
“Australia is systematically violating the international Convention Against Torture by detaining children in immigration detention, and holding asylum seekers in dangerous and violent conditions on Manus Island”
Well there were 2,000 children locked up under Labor. The Coalition has got that down to under 200.
Stopping the boats means we can empty Labors detention centers.
It all just sounds like a massive plan to create a new underclass of impoverished citizens.
That’s really the only conclusion that you can come to reb. Hockey might be that stupid, but those around him aren’t.
And I don’t think there is an “if” in “if not further drive up”. I think it’s a given that that will be the outcome. It has with every other attempt to give more people money up front to buy houses.
1. low interest rates
2. SMSF funds able to purchase investment properties
3. Off shore buyers buying into new developments
Exactly, all this nonsense of using super will do is put more demand into the housing market, pushing prices higher. The government needs to address (and rebalance) demand – particularly negative gearing and off shore purchases.
“All it’s going to do is prop up (if not further drive up) house prices.”
The same goes for Foley’s misconceived stamp duty scheme in NSW.
There is a way for governments to lower house prices – increase supply: cut back on the regulatory process for new developments and on restrictions on land use and make more land available.
I doubt foreign buyers are a big deal at the entry level of the housing market. Besides, increasing supply will provide more building jobs. There will be more apprenticeships and more people able to buy housing. Projects promoting decentralisation should help as well.
Negative gearing should go, but for reasons of tax equity rather than reducing demand.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT!
The Abbott Government is set to reinstate nearly $1 billion in funding for the car industry, in its latest move to cast aside several contentious policies.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-10/abbott-government-reinstating-241-billion-in-car-industry-fund/6292868
Who the fuck are they giving it to?
BMbloodyW?
Really, this is peak stupid. What the fuck next? Knighting Triggs?
Most investors are in the same market as first home buyers, it is the entry level that needs the heat taken out of demand.
I’m ok with increasing supply too, but I’m not sure this is the real problem.
but I’m not sure this is the real problem.
No, from what I have read, we don’t have a lack of supply, although, that could be out-dated info.
“Really, this is peak stupid.”
Unfknbelievable (as TB would say)
“Really, this is peak stupid.”
I thought you were taking the piss Tom R, and then I read this…
Honestly this has to be the most incompetent government ever…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-10/abbott-government-reinstating-241-billion-in-car-industry-fund/6292868
Dunno about Melbourne but not so gradually many Sydney suburbs are turning into Hi Rise Asia…
I filmed an event down in my old home town “Hurstville” and I was most certainly in the Anglo minority now. It actually felt like Hong Kong. Many Sydney suburbs were targeted as escape routes when Hong Kong changed hands…
This is the same for many Sydney suburbs.. cheap meriton style over priced investment dogboxes sold by Asian Realtors working for Asian developers using Asian builders.
The face of Australia is irreversibly changing to an Asian population…
Honestly this has to be the most incompetent government ever…
But the question remains. Who is this largesse going to?
“”Who is this largesse going to?””
Teh Banks and existing property owners..
“”Most investors are in the same market as first home buyers””
Not really.. Investors can use the equity in their primary dwelling as security for “the deposit” in an investment property.
First home buyers have to front up with the cold hard cash.
If anyone wants a bit of hilarity, you can follow Joe Hockey’s defamation action in court live on twitter… #HockeyFairfax
Hockeys sounding very confused
lol, beat me to it reb 😉
(mind you, it’s still in moderation) 😉
“Not really..
Price wise I mean, first home buyers and renters are usually looking at the same types of properties. Obviously the the assets backing the decision are quite different.
“‘I will never watch another Sean Penn movie again,’ screamed one harridan — me neither, sugartits, but for different reasons. And some bloke posted: ‘The struggles people endure for immigration justice are not punchlines.’ No indeed, you person of unfathomable sanctimony. In your world there are no punchlines at all — even that famous story about the chicken and the motive behind its decision to cross a road is lamentably chickenist, slighting not only to all domestic fowl, but also to any other creatures who perhaps identify with domestic fowl.”
http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9452082/oh-joy-sean-penn-has-tried-to-crack-a-joke/
Teh Banks and existing property owners..
I meant the $1 billion in funding for car manufacturing that they ripped and and then forced Holden out of Australia with.
Do they expect Holden to come crawling back now?
Or will this go to overseas manufacturers. Maybe to prop up Toyota in the UK??
Joe Hockey just told the Court that the reason the North Sydney Forum was set up was because he didn’t think there was a Chamber of Commerce in North Sydney.. But here he is endorsing the Chamber of Commerce…
From the abc article. History being airbrushed as we speak
The Coalition had planned to cut the funding, following announcements from Holden, Ford and Toyota that they would wind up car manufacturing in Australia in the next few years.
It fails to mention that the announcements were made after they were told the funding wouldn’t be granted. Sure, it was cut after their announcements, but the grubminsts policy position was made clear in no uncertain terms before the actual cuts were made.
Hockey daring a major employer to fuck off. What a fucken idiot.
OK, I finally got to the end. It appears they are updating the story as it goes.
But the cut prompted fears the car makers would bring forward their closure dates.
Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane is expected to announce the policy change this morning in Adelaide.
So, this is all about preventing the closures happening on their watch? Have they thrown in the towel, assumed Labor will win the next election, and tried to ensure that the job losses happen then?
Joe Hockey just told the Court that the reason the North Sydney Forum was set up was because he didn’t think
And that’s where his statement should have ended reb 😉
“we don’t have a lack of supply”
This idiot agrees with you.
It seems to me that price is where supply matches demand. Analysing supply as being relative to other countries by population doesn’t really tell us much. If supply is increased and demand remains constant then the price should fall to slightly above the costs of production.
Perhaps we should be looking into grubmints distorting the market instead of the supply side, which has been looked at for years.
Latest conspiracy theories from the States
Obama isn’t a Muslim. He’s a Shaman!
We shouldn’t just rely on the equilibrium of market forces that are distorted by the attraction (ie artificially inflated demand) of property ownership on the basis of tax.
I think the tax treatment of investment property would be a useful piece of research by the Productivity Commission, and dare I say it, but probably more useful than it looking at ways of making people easier to dismiss from employment or paid less.
The Fairfax counsel battered Hockey with wet lettuce yesterday. Maybe he will show a bit more spine this morning.
The real fun begins after lunch when McClintock SC gets to cross-examine the Fairfax “journalists”. Visit Level 18 of the Law Courts building in Phillip Street if anyone wants to see blood on the floor this afternoon.
The whole idea of politicians bringing defamation actions is ludicrous. They have opportunities enough to correct the public record. Everyone knows that Fairfax journos are biased second-rate trolls. They also know that Hockey is so completely incompetent that he has no reputation to lose.
BREAKING NEWS
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/govt-reverses-car-industry-funding-cuts/story-e6frfku9-1227256355871
Everyone knows that Fairfax journos are biased second-rate trolls.
I don’t agree about biased, but the rest is true.
Funny hearing hockey, our treasurer ffs, telling us all pollies leave with is their reputations.
Someone should remind him of their lifetime pensions. That may make him happy today of all days
He also didn’t mind attempting to continue to trash Gillards reputation even after she had left Parliament.
The hypocrisy of these idiots is legend
BREAKING NEWS
it is …. Unfknbelievable (as TB would say) 😉
What did the IGR have to say on property prices?
It appears the libs have been stupid for quite some time
I meant the $1 billion in funding for car manufacturing that they ripped and and then forced Holden out of Australia with.
TomR you got that wrong. There were no funding cuts to the car manufacturing industry.
What happened was that when Ford announced they were leaving under Rudd/Gillard this made it more difficult for Toyota/Holden to stay. So they went back to the govt and asked for even more money. Hockey said no.
The Coalition was always going to give the car industry subsidies that Rudd/Gillard promised. After Holden/Toyota announced they were going to leave it was always arguable whether funding should continue.
TomR you got that wrong.
I think you need to read the article genius
The market is arguably already overheated with a combination of
4. Negative gearing on new and pre-owned properties …
Eliminate negative gearing and do what the Canadians do … allow first home mortgagees to use their interest payments as a tax deduction …
… just allowing negative gearing on new homes would help to increase supply – the real problem …
… I studied a couple of units of economics before uni in the mid 80’s (oh, yes I did ToMmy 🙂 )and even then the automotive and housing industries (NOT real estate) were considered the drivers/churners of the economy (mainly because of the multiplier effect) …
… and unemployment was considered “acceptable” at 6% (that was before the Aus change to ILO stats) … we were given five main reasons for a person being unemployed … accident/sickness, chronically unemployable, school leaver, returnee to work (there are others of course) … I argued there was only one reason … you were unemployed … you didn’t have a fkn job!
Looking at the link re the auto funding … its almost like someone has injected some of the government with a knowledge serum or sumfink? (obviously didn’t work on The Mad Monk or Hockey Puck)
I read the article. It said this
The Coalition had planned to cut the funding, following announcements from Holden, Ford and Toyota that they would wind up car manufacturing in Australia in the next few years.
The funding was going to be cut because why continue to give subsidies if they are leaving?
But now the the companies have said they are leaving, they are going to re-instate the funding
Fucken genius!
Hey, TR … check out Wikepedia too!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fightback!_(policy)
“What did the IGR have to say on property prices?”
Nothing. The word “negative” occurs a lot, but not in conjunction with the word “gearing”.
The best way to prevent Piracy (arrrr)
HBO signs Apple TV deal allowing greater access to Game of Thrones
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/hbo-signs-apple-tv-deal-allowing-greater-access-to-game-of-thrones-20150310-13zoqr.html#ixzz3TwCxNNQc
The word “negative” occurs a lot, but not in conjunction with the word “gearing”.
lol
So, perhaps it was the copy editors who screwed it up 😉
“Why is Hockey suing Fairfax when HIS evidence suggests it was the NSF that verballed him & used his image without consent?”
Hockey is suing Fairfax because Fairfax conducted a vendetta against him and, according to our stupid defamation law, he is likely to cash in.
Fairfax was pissed off because the last time they lied about Hockey they had to apologise to him. So they thought they’d get him good this time. The cross-examination of Goodsir, Kenny etc should be a real hoot! McClintock SC may be an ALP man at heart but he is first and foremost a warrior and, unlike the Fairfax silk, a tough interrogator.
“Mr Macfarlane said it was “pretty cynical” to conclude the decision was also about the survival of Mr Abbott.”
Count me cynical then.
Fairfax conducted a vendetta against him
Good thing ltdnews never sinks to that level.
But really, from the testimony so far, it really does look like someone was trying to sell access to the treasurer. Not sure how that can be defamatory if true?
And, if he wins, will rudd go after him for his tweet?
That would be funny reb if it wasn’t so fucken sad.
TomR
The article also proves you wrong.
Subsidies continued under the Coalition. There were no subsidy cuts to the car industry.
For the one millionth time. When Ford announced they were leaving (under Rudd) the car industry needed even more subsidies. Hockey said no. The current subsidies were all you were going to get.
Toyota and then Holden announced they were leaving because without Ford it was impossible to make cars in Australia.
The funding that Rudd/Gillard promised was never cut until Toyota/Holden announced they were leaving.
According to nIl, the grubmint is re-instating what hadn’t been uninstated 😯
“”the grubmint is re-instating what hadn’t been uninstated””
LOL
🙂
“According to nIl, the grubmint is re-instating what hadn’t been uninstated”
Yep.
https://twitter.com/awelder/status/575079547651145729
Joe Hockey is in Court arguing that he has nothing to do with this website…
http://www.northsydneyforum.com.au/
Well, one good IPSOS poll, and now we are back to the normal unhingement from within
it’s going to be a long 18 months methinks, yep 😉
Joe Hockey is in Court arguing that he has nothing to do with this website…
Perhaps he’s suing the wrong people reb?
“But really, from the testimony so far, it really does look like someone was trying to sell access to the treasurer. Not sure how that can be defamatory if true?”
FMD, Troll R. I’ve been to several ALP fundraisers which promise access to Ministers. The last one I went to was because the candidate was a mate and I wanted to support him. Cost was $1,200 but they didn’t get enough takers so I got in for $500. I had no interest in meeting Bowen. But this sort of fund-raising is just business as usual.
In a defo case the question is what imputations does the headline “Treasurer For Sale” carry and whether or not any of those imputations are defamatory.
As I understand it Hockey is claiming that the statement implies that he is corrupt. If the judge agrees then Hockey will win. Hockey will get extra damages if he can show malice. That should not be too hard given the emails that have already been produced.
The original article is worth a read:
And Fatty O’Barrell went down for one lousy bottle!
If supply is increased and demand remains constant then the price should fall to slightly above the costs of production.
Or so the theory of supply and demand would go … sb … its all about competition 🙄
I’ve been told (often) that I don’t suffer fools gladly but why can’t people follow the simplest of concepts … tried and tested over centuries of barter and exchange?!
So, if it run of the mill sb, how can it be defamatory.
Granted, it’ll be up to the judge to decide, and he could go either way. But, either way, hockeys testimony to date shows how little attention he pays to things, a pretty damning indictment of a guy controlling a multi billion dollar economy.
It’s not the result that will hurt. As Slipper found out, it is what that is said within the courts that can be terminal.
And Fatty O’Barrell went down for one lousy bottle!
It’s ridiculous, granted.
I had no interest in meeting Bowen. But this sort of fund-raising is just business as usual.
But should it be? That is the point.
If they want business to give $ for access, presumably a favourable ear for lobbying purposes, over other ordinary australians, we should at least have transparency and FOI about the process.
In a defo case the question is what imputations does the headline “Treasurer For Sale” carry and whether or not any of those imputations are defamatory.
To an Aussie its just the normal political bullshit … but then the Hockey Puck thinks he’s a Pom … typical “born with a silver spoon up my arse – try and get it out” … mentality …
From above it sounds like the spoon is half way out already … he’s a buffoon!
And Fatty O’Barrell went down for one lousy bottle!
Yeah, but Bazza fell on his sword … Tip Custard was always yellow (like his surname) 🙂 …
Joe says he has no idea about NFS (it’s just listed on his own website)…
Really Joe, you had no idea?
Well, it doesn’t look like he had any idea that the automotive industry had left. It’s not like he thought they were taking him seriously or anything 😯
LIES and more LIES … this is the silly shite that can bring a government down …
… ego tripping can be very, very expensive in many ways …
… as for the back emails (is privacy questionable, here? How were they obtained? This is a civil action after all) they simply demonstrate the frustration of dealing with an arrogant man promoted far beyond his level of incompetence and with way too much power …
“”I’m ok with increasing supply too, but I’m not sure this is the real problem.””
It still is in Sydney.
16 long hard fucking years of incompetence from the ALP ensured that investment dried up in this state.
Now the joint has skycranes everywhere.
And for those who want negative gearing suddenly abolished I hope you’ll be quite happy to part with the money you have in the bank that you thought was safe as that money and overseas money has been lent to investors who have provided security with the value of the properties they bought.
If you want to flood the market with distressed sales you’ll get falling asset values and the first thing that will implode are the security covenants that the Australian banks have with their other lenders.
Goodbye ANZ,CBA,Westpac, NAB et al……………………….Hello Australian Made Financial Collapse
“Yeah, but Bazza fell on his sword”
Maybe Costello declared the wine he received. Surely your not saying that Labor MP’s do not receive gifts?
https://twitter.com/awelder/status/575079547651145729
“So, if it run of the mill sb, how can it be defamatory.”
You are such a troll, Tom R. I feel dirty every time I fall for your bait. Take it as a tribute to your skills.
The question is whether the “Treasurer For Sale” is defamatory, not the events reported in the story. The fact that that headline was used to describe run of the mill politics goes to malice.
“… as for the back emails (is privacy questionable, here? How were they obtained? This is a civil action after all)”
By subpoena as is usual in these cases.
“they simply demonstrate the frustration of dealing with an arrogant man promoted far beyond his level of incompetence and with way too much power …”
They show the vindictive malice of journos already embarrassed at having had to apologise for their previous lies about Hockey. Doubling down on defamation is not smart. Hockey will be laughing all the way to the bank.
The degree of fanciful frothing on the Twittersphere is hilarious.
#hockey @ fairfax defo suit:
“words are bullets”
Where’s all that let freedom ring and words can’t hurt mantra from the freedom party?
“If you want to flood the market with distressed sales you’ll get falling asset values and the first thing that will implode are the security covenants that the Australian banks have with their other lenders.”
That is some serious scaremongering there, Walrus. Are you assuming the changes will be retrospective? If they only apply to new loans that should not be such a problem, should it?
“Where’s all that let freedom ring and words can’t hurt mantra from the freedom party?”
Exactly KL. Defamation law should be restricted at the same time other anti-free speech laws are wound back.
The idea of pollies profiting from defo actions is ridiculous.
That is some serious scaremongering there, Walrus. Are you assuming the changes will be retrospective? If they only apply to new loans that should not be such a problem, should it?
My thoughts too …
The fact that that headline was used to describe run of the mill politics goes to malice.
Wow, Labor could go to town on murdoch 😉
Fer yomm
armchair opinionator permalink
March 10, 2015 1:13 pm
So, the money for the car industry is going to the libs black hole.
That makes sense 😯
“”Are you assuming the changes will be retrospective?””
That’s what a certain contributor on here is implying on a regular basis. Of course now he will deny it.
Otherwise the contribution to the forward revenues are negligible.
HinT: Think Robber Barons……………..then Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn !
On new builds you’d have to announce the changes in 2 or 3 years hence. Otherwise there are a lot of projects yet to be started that will fallover immediately with the deposits of many “”off the plan”” purchasers.
TomR
You see why i never believe anything a Labor supporters says.
There were no cuts to the car manufacturing subsidies as you stated many times.
Ford left under Labor meaning Holden and Toyota had to leave, funding or no funding.
But Holden/Toyota got all the money Rudd/Gillard promised.
“”Are you assuming the changes will be retrospective?”” That’s what a certain contributor on here is implying on a regular basis. Of course now he will deny it.
I have never believed in retrospective lawmaking and have actually said so … you’ve made a false accusation now fkn prove it!
I have said get rid of negative gearing retrospectively – never, not once – retrospective laws are not generally acceptable in Australia … that’s you, once again, putting words into people’s mouths …
Only this morning I said …
… just allowing negative gearing on new homes would help to increase supply – the real problem …
Find where I have said retrospectively and I will apologise (and you won’t) – otherwise I expect an apology … not a fudge …
FYI as an ex owner/business manager I would not even consider retrospective laws … a nonsense in your own mind …
The tax point is that where the purpose of the funds borrowed have a dual purpose i.e. capital growth and income production the interest should be apportioned and only the portion referable to income production should be deductible. This is not something particular to real property investments but should be a general rule of deductibility.
Currently, where there is a dual purpose of the borrowing the interest is all deductible, even that portion attributable to a purpose of obtaining a capital gain. This doesn’t make any sense at all. The capital component belongs in the cost base of the asset and should not be deductible.
I have little sympathy for those taking advantage of the tax system whining when their subsidy is removed. Like those leeches whining about the loss of jobs when the FBT on cars was going to be reformed. It is a waste of resources when the tax law becomes so complicated by special rules and exemptions that specialist advisers can live large on telling people how to exploit them. The fuckers ought to be shot.
… just allowing negative gearing on new homes would help to increase supply – the real problem …
I agree with you TB, I think there should only be negative gearing allowed on new homes not existing ones. At least that’s a start to stopping the massive tax rort.
…The idea of pollies profiting from defo actions is ridiculous…
They want it both ways don’t they sb? The freedom to say what they like under privilege yet the use of the courts to shut up critics combined with lack of transparency/FOI.
Really good article by Paula
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-10/matthewson-three-jostling-budget-narratives/6291502
Still shaking my head at how Nils could be regurgitating the same old Under Labor repedo-droll-troll after what can only be described as a monumentally and stupendous backflip with a triple Lazerous Pike by a government setting a new stratospheric high bar for both incompetency and hypocrisy….
Gee…where’s Smokin Joe ? Is this another Captains call from a changed man listening with his ear to the ground?…
What’s next Is Captain Rabbit gonna knight David Flint? of maybe make Christopher Pyne a queen?.. oh wait… 🙄
Nah……….no apology from me.
Clearly in order to have any immediate decent impact on the Budget that is what you would have to do. And its what you have been harping on about.
Just because I’ve called you out on it so what …………….you start back pedalling.
“”The fuckers ought to be shot.””
Yikes……………………………!
He was offering little meet and greets in the boardroom of his office with a price of Joe’s ear where the funds were laundered two companies undisclosed to campaigns for fiberals undisclosed on both the pecuniary and lobbyist register…
That’s a treasurer for sale.. all this after acusin Rudd and Swan of the same thing. The Hypocrisy of this criminal government is unparalleled.. Joe by name Joe by nature.. he would have been right at home in Petersons Qld cabinet…
The fuckers ought to be shot.
That last sentence re-awakened me, sb … whew …
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lazerous Pike by a government
It truly is the blind magician leading the blind magician through the smoke and mirrors … and thinking the audience can’t see ’em …
http://www.afr.com/p/national/politics/coalition_retreats_on_car_industry_WCKvOJR6oJIRQVndkd98EN
Money for more bombs from our friends in the good ‘ol US of A!
While the Treasurer’s in the Court House Counting out his money … it’s like being in an episode of Grimm …
This was the News Ltd “story” this morning …
http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-puts-900-million-back-into-automotive-fund/story-fncynjr2-1227256529940
Just because I’ve called you out on it so what …………….you start back pedalling.
You really are a dickhead, Willy … nobody even suggested retrospective until you did … and you are the one backpedalling …
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/bob-ellis-abbotts-tipping-point,7462#.VP54FkCuOCw.twitter
…Tony is an area of craziness all his own.
He is asking that the United Nations praise him for “stopping the boats” and not go on, the way they do, and did yesterday, about it being wrong to torment, imprison, or ‘torture’ children…
… and you are the one backpedalling …
not even back-pedalling, more like entrenched misrepresentation 😉
Clearly in order to have any immediate decent impact on the Budget that is what you would have to do. And its what you have been harping on about.
Clearly budget decisions have never (to my knowledge) been retrospective …
Any suggestions to make the budget fairer are just that suggestions – if you actually looked at a budget from any government the decisions incorporate a timeline for the introduction rarely if ever immediate and certainly not retrospective …
You obviously have a vested interest in negative gearing to say something so dumb …
… you made a stupid accusation that you certainly can’t prove and don’t have the decency to apologise … call me fool but don’t trat me like one – ever …
Your accusation is just drivel … 6 years hasn’t altered my opinion on retrospective laws …
https://blogocrats.wordpress.com/2009/08/03/message-from-reb/
Aug 3, 2009 – TB Queensland, on August 3, 2009 at 2:52 pm said: ….. even then and I found the idea of retrospective laws to be a real worry and still do.)..
Sixth entry down …
https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=9Ij-VIvqKMHu8wfEuYHgCA&gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=Wordpress+TB+Queensland+retrospective+laws
… Joe by name Joe by nature.. he would have been right at home in Petersons Qld cabinet…
Gawd forbid, RP!
… actually he would have been right at home in the previous LNP government too …
Hockey back in the box tomorrow is he … ?
TB Queensland
May 28, 2014 12:10 pm
“”… 20% across the board is the simple answer … no claims, no concessions just 20% gone each pay day … and a financial year that begins 1st January and ends 31st December …””
https://theguttertrash.com/2014/05/27/you-will-pay-to-be-told-that-the-budget-is-good-for-you/
No claims……………………………?
And from you no believable answer.
By the way up until last year you didn’t even realise that negative gearing also applies to other assets…………..you might recall………………….or did you conveniently forget that too ?
erm, you’re fudging, Willy!
As usual WTF has any of the above to do with retrospective …
… is your comprehension so poor? Are you really that brain tangled? Or just buggered and don’t know where to go without losing face?
This is what we are discussing …
“”Are you assuming the changes will be retrospective?””
That’s what a certain contributor on here is implying on a regular basis. Of course now he will deny it.
And this is what YOU are denying …
“”Your accusation is just drivel … 6 years hasn’t altered my opinion on retrospective laws …””
https://blogocrats.wordpress.com/2009/08/03/message-from-reb/
Aug 3, 2009 – TB Queensland, on August 3, 2009 at 2:52 pm said: ….. even then and I found the idea of retrospective laws to be a real worry and still do.)..
Sixth entry down …
https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=9Ij-VIvqKMHu8wfEuYHgCA&gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=Wordpress+TB+Queensland+retrospective+laws
I’ve never implied retrospective laws on negative gearing …
I’d fight any laws that were retrospective … how the fuck can people plan with retrospective laws hanging over their heads …
So cough up with an apology and we can all move on.
“”… how the fuck can people plan with retrospective laws hanging over their heads … “”
Ever heard of a Mining Tax ?
Cough as much as you like………..No apology from here
crikey paywall
Voters agree: tax big companies more, not less:
…This week’s Essential Report poll looks at views on taxation (full results here), and the unanimity among voters on certain sources of revenue is noteworthy. Labor and Coalition voters are indistinguishable in saying large international companies don’t enough tax — 74% Labor and 73% Coalition. Just 8% and 10%, respectively, say they pay the right amount; 2% each say they pay too much…
…Another tax target also unites voters: 54% of Labor voters and 53% of Liberal voters think religious organisations don’t pay enough; 15% and 21% believe they pay about the right amount….
… It’s also why Joe Hockey, who has talked a lot of about multinational tax avoidance but done little about it, criticises Labor’s proposals at his peril. The mining tax debacle showed that Labor can stuff up anything, but there’s strong voter support for hitting multinationals much harder…
Click to access Q.pdf
You are the one who wants “No claims””
What the hell do you think negative gearing is ????????????????
WALLY, RETROSPECTIVE!
Do you really know what the word means?
When did any mining company have to pay tax in retrospect of, 19 March 2012 …
I’m now beginning to wonder about the “persona” you’ve built here because your comments today (and a few days ago) do not reflect someone who really understands what is being discussed …
Accept you were wrong and apologise so we can all move on …
I did not suggest any retrospective laws … sb, asked the question and you accused me of “implying” it … I know my own standards and one of them is a negative on retrospective laws …
Otherwise I would not be continuing to ask for an apology … other people here apologise for wrong assumptions … Kneel owes me about five … but that denotes the character of the human being or at least his/her intelligence level!
“”It’s been pointed out many times how we can get back to surplus almost overnight and it’s not austerity for the poor.Tackle the middle class giveaways, the superannuation and negative gearing””
armchair opinionator
January 28, 2015 10:53 am
“”The quick fix is to have a 20% across the board tax on anything earned … no special treatment no tax returns 20% for ALL tax … (including GST but with an increase for those on government welfare to cope – as they did originally) … wonder how businesses would cope with actually paying 20%?
And as KL mentioned earlier …
Repeal negative gearing*
Dismantle every family trust in and out of Australia* “”
TB Queensland permalink
January 28, 2015 11:56 am
https://theguttertrash.com/2015/01/27/tony-abbott-and-prince-philip-beknighted-and-benighted/
Note the 2 partners in crime and the use of use of …..
“we can get back to surplus almost overnight
AND
“”The quick fix is to have ……..””
And as KL mentioned earlier …
Repeal negative gearing*…………………”
Pretty conclusive I’d say as to your attitude…………you clearly agreed with Kitty
But keep back peddaling……………….you do it so often you are getting better at it.
No apology LOL
“”When did any mining company have to pay tax in retrospect of, 19 March 2012 … “”
Twist and turn
YOU are the one that mentioned the difficulty in planning if new laws are legislated that change the original basis of an investment decision.
You don’t fucking know, Wally … you wouldn’t have a fucking clue … you are wallowing all over the place … the mining tax was NOT RETROSPECTIVE …
No apology LOL
“” … that denotes the character of the human being or at least his/her intelligence level!”
Sometimes I really get pissed off – this is one of those sometimes … childish shit!
…YOU are the one that mentioned the difficulty in planning if new laws are legislated that change the original basis of an investment decision…
I reckon the way the government brought in their shock, horror budget after telling everyone not to worry, everything will stay the same – all the usual rules have now been broken.
Should we expect anything goes with each new government?
Have a chillax TB…
There were no cuts to the car manufacturing subsidies as you stated many times.
someone should tell the people who wrote the budget then
The Abbott government has abruptly reversed a key funding cut to the automotive sector as Australia’s major car manufacturers prepare to close their doors.
The government on Tuesday said it would not proceed with plans unveiled in last year’s budget to axe $500m from the Automotive Transformation Scheme (ATS) between now and 2017.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/mar/10/coalition-reverses-500m-cut-to-taxpayer-assistance-to-auto-industry
This is what the automotive Industry were planning for. The Cuts in budget. Which hockey telegraphed to Holden in no uncertain terms during that infamous QT
Really, it was laughable earlier, now your just being stupid
CHILLAX! FKN! CHILLAX!
Nah … Wally has just shown the type he is … there’s a couple here now …
Anyone can read the comments above and know the truth of the matter …
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Really, it was laughable earlier, now your just being stupid
Yeah the $900,000,000 million that became $100,000,000 that gives the government budget a windfall of $500,000,000 because $400,000,000 wasn’t/isn’t/shouldn’t be needed now … or sumfin’ WTF?
How much are they now just throwing away … reminds me of a Taswegian hospital and a little bit of pork-barrelling by Howard’s Private School Bullies … ridfkndikulous …
How much are they now just throwing away
Here’s a hint 😉
“Govt just borrowed another $150m, not repaid until 20 Sep 2025. There you go again kids – your shout!”
Gee, I wonder if they borrowed the $150 million at the all-time low rates the Terrific Triumvirate of Economic Fuckwittery recommend Abbott and Hockey avail themselves of. You know, just because the money is as good as free.
TB seems rather, shall we say, excited this evening.
Really, it was laughable earlier, now your just being stupid
TomR
I am correcting your falsehoods.
The Coalition did not cut any money to the car manufacturing industry while they had promised to stay in Australia.
The auto manufacturers announced they were up and leaving and therefore there was no need to keep funding an industry if they were leaving. So hence the announced cuts which have now been reversed.
Stop telling falsehoods. And what a waste of money. If there is an industry to assist the Labor Party will always pick the wrong one to throw money at.
ToSY – ToM said – There’s an old saying that people say to me quite often …
Can you guess what it is?
I was listening to 2GB and somebody from this company was being interviewed.
http://www.tomcar.com.au/
Apparently these cars are made in Australia and get no govt funding. They are mainly used by off-road users like farmers. It would have been better to subsidise these guys rather than Holden.
Not satisfied with a Churchillian moment this is politics Cecil Rhodes style
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-10/tony-abbott-backs-decision-to-close-wa-indigenous-communities/6295296
Trips to remote indigenous communities will continue to be part of my annual routine should I become Prime Minister.
Australians yearn to see practical and genuine improvement in the lives of Aboriginal people.
There is so much goodwill. The challenge is to convert this into change for the better.Tony Abbot Pre election 20th of August..
It’s just relentless Day after day…
So their Aboriginal community is a “lifestyle choice” sort of like being Gay?
Its simple folks this Pommie Pillock is a blight on our country and an insult to our intelligence.
More lies
More social engineering
More of the same
“Anyone can read the comments above and know the truth of the matter …”
My thoughts exactly
Especially when they are YOUR comments
ROFLMAO
Hoisted by ones own petard comes to mind.
1)You agreed with KL
2) she used the word ” overnight”
3) you used the words ” quick fix” then agreed with KL
Oh how I laughed
No apology ………..EVER
Why should I apologise for YOUR OWN WORDS
By the way
I await your apology
By the way
Je Suis Bangladesh !
Goodbye you pommy fuckers !
..1)You agreed with KL
2) she used the word ” overnight”
3) you used the words ” quick fix” then agreed with KL
IIRC, I linked to a website and opinion that used the word ‘overnight’, so technically you are wrong walrus, not our words exactly. I did agree with the article thouh
“I was listening to 2GB…”
Guffaw!
Exhibit A…
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/on_2gb_tonight_has_the_government_backflipped_too_much/
You read AND listen to Bolt. Every weeknight evening?
I never would have guessed…
Yep i listen to 2GB a lot.
But i was listening to Money News with Ross Greenwood and he had somebody on from the tomcar company.
I had never heard of a Tomcar but they are off-road vehicles made here without govt assistance.
I am not totally against govt assistance for industry. But i would tend to favor one off grants to help out a struggling company or some company starting up. Humungous amounts of money that Holden/Toyota/Ford got i would disagree with unless it worked.
But in 2007 Australian made cars had 25% of the market. After 6 years of Rudd/Gillard giving them everything they wanted they had 10% of the market. Epic fail.
Epic fail.
Like hockey’s budget.
Mucho backflipping and belly flopping
The Coalition did not cut any money to the car manufacturing industry while they had promised to stay in Australia.
No nIl, they telegraphed their intent which, as we can see, they duly followed through with. Hockey was very clear to holden that there was no help for them from this grubmint, the age of entitlement was over. Holden got the message, loud and clear. This is what I have been saying, so perhaps you can highlight what falsehood you were correcting? It is also apparent that this grubmint is happy to splash cash for their own means, but not for Australian workers means.
The reality is that savings of about $400 million of the $500 million budgeted over the four years forecast in the budget (the other $400 million of the original $900 million scheme was scheduled to be spent beyond the budget) will come about simply because the industry won’t spend the money because the big manufacturers are packing up and going home.
So the government is trying to claim credit for being generous when in reality it is benefiting from decisions encouraged by its former parsimony.
http://www.afr.com/p/national/politics/level_cars_tony_abbott_takes_craven_MpkL10rhfXRygPQlUO3ACK
It would have been better to subsidise these guys rather than Holden.
Really? Where do you think a company like this gets its skilled workforce from? How competitive is a niche industry like this in the world market? How many feeder industries does an outfit like this maintain? This company, and others like it, benefited from having an automotive industry here, so they benefited from Government support, just not in as direct a manner as the Holden’s or Toyota’s
Yep i listen to 2GB a lot.
And dolt lol, ranting about the “stunning cumback!” ROFL
https://mobile.twitter.com/AKBakota/status/575041799430914048/photo/1
You know, just because the money is as good as free.
Well, of course, nothing wrong with verballing I guess 😉 The real issue is, this grubmint screamed long and loud about their alleged “evils” of debt, and went on to promise that they would stop it.
Instead, they have only increased it.
Personally, I don’t have an issue with debt, if it used to effect. Labor used it effectively, and ran tight budgets post GFC to offset this. This grubmint, however, is not only forcing “austerity” on the lower end of own, it is at the same time borrowing even more, and one can only assume that this is to prop up the other end of town. They are loading “future generations” with debt to feather their mates bed. We have no “infrastructure” projects happening, so where is this money going? If there were infrastructure, such asan NBN, then this would not be such a problem. The debt incurred now would be more than paid of by the productivity that flowed from such a scheme. But there is no such scheme.
Well, our Prime Minister for Indigenous Affairs has done it again
“What we can’t do is endlessly subsidise lifestyle choices if those lifestyle choices are not conducive to the kind of full participation in Australian society that everyone should have,” he said.
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/rolf-de-heer-slams-tony-abbott-over-lifestyle-choice-comments-on-remote-aboriginal-communities-20150310-140it3.html#ixzz3U19NrDre
Really, this guy is an unconscionable bastard isn’t he? How much more can he trash and belittle the Indigenous, and he is getting called out on it too. Has he gone too far this time?
A fired up De Heer said that to make those comments about the residents of remote communities was “profoundly misunderstanding” of Aboriginal culture and economic reality.
“It’s hypocritical that our Prime Minister pretends to be the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and has so little understanding of what it is to be on country and that there is no choice involved,” he said.
TomR
Give it a miss mate. Your lies and deceit help nobody.
Under the ATS funding was promised until 2020.
What happened is that Ford announced they were leaving. Holden went back to the new Coalition govt and asked for even more money. Hockey told them to get lost. What they were getting was enough.
Holden and Toyota then announced they were also leaving in 2017.
Why continue giving $400M from 2017-2020 when Holden will not be here?
Cuts to the ATS were only announced after the auto makers said they were leaving.
Cuts to the ATS were only announced after the auto makers said they were leaving.
But they were promised long before. We all knew that the libs wanted it gone. They were loud and proud about ending the “age of entitlement”
To ignore this is to whitewash history.
Your lies and deceit help nobody.
I’ll ask again, please point to these allegations you make?
THERE WERE NO CUTS TO THE ATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AFTER NOT BEFORE BUT AFTER Ford, Toyota and Holden announced they were leaving the Coalition wanted to stop giving the auto makers money.
Your lies are you said they cut funding. There were no ATS funding cuts until AFTER the announcement that the auto makers were leaving in 2017.
$400M was promised from 2017-2020. Why give them this money when they will not be here?
I’ll ask again, please point to these allegations you make?
Joe Hockey and Luke Foley’s help for first-time home buyers is a con…
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/joe-hockey-and-luke-foleys-help-for-firsttime-home-buyers-is-a-con-20150310-13zrcx.html?&utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:twi-14omn0023-optim-nnn:nonpaid-27/06/2014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-age-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_twitter
“”I linked to a website and opinion that used the word ‘overnight’, so technically you are wrong walrus, not our words exactly. I did agree with the article thouh”
ROFLMAO
You Linked did you ?
Where is the Link at your comment ?
There is none. Just a few italics at the beginning of your comment which might be italicised for other reasons unknown. But you state no link in your comment and break back to normal type.
So I’m not “technically wrong”” at all.
You said it as though they were your words and TB agreed.
But keep wriggling.
Get over it. Time to move on.
From the Giitins article reb
I often wonder whether our politicians are knaves or just fools.
I used to think knaves, but, after watching the “hockeyfairfax thread yesterday, I’m now leaning more to fools 😉
So I’m not “technically wrong”” at all.
😯
I wonder if hockey will try and run that defense today?
“”Joe Hockey and Luke Foley’s help for first-time home buyers is a con…””
Yep. Neither works. In fact Foley’s is an old policy abandoned back in 1998 by the ALP government in NSW.
Joe’s also wont work. But the idea of repaying principal and interest back to your own Super account rather than another bank via a mortgage is somewhat appealing.
tony no friends. Well, if you keep doing stupid shit, thet’ll happen
A peak body for Aboriginal organisations in the Northern Territory has called for the prime minister to give up responsibility for a number of Indigenous affairs areas and give them back to the Health Department in order to have “the best chance at us achieving outcomes”.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/mar/10/nt-aboriginal-leader-pleads-for-prime-minister-to-give-up-indigenous-affairs
Once again …
This is what we are discussing …
splatterbum asked: “”Are you assuming the changes will be retrospective?””
Wally replied: “That’s what a certain contributor on here is implying on a regular basis. Of course now he will deny it.”
Not even game enough to use my name – TB …
Now, having to defend a false accusation I searched for evidence … (so much for innocent until PROVED guilty) and found this from six years ago …
https://blogocrats.wordpress.com/2009/08/03/message-from-reb/
Aug 3, 2009 – TB Queensland, on August 3, 2009 at 2:52 pm said: ….. even then and I found the idea of retrospective laws to be a real worry and still do.)..
Sixth entry down on this page …
https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=9Ij-VIvqKMHu8wfEuYHgCA&gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=Wordpress+TB+Queensland+retrospective+laws
Retrospective laws are against the principles of the Westminster System … the country would grind to a halt …
And as a self funded retiree/pensioner I can assure you its the one thing we all dread – a government that decides to bring in retrospective laws …
Why then would I conjecture, contemplate or even condone retrospective laws … for anyone – including negative gearing for the rich … it just has to go …
So what 6 years ago
You obviously changed your mind since then as you agreed with Kitty who wanted them thrown out overnight
“”Not even game enough to use my name “”
“game enough”……………………….ROFLMAO
I think the hint was pretty obvious.
Perhaps you should have chosen your words better.
Perhaps rather than “”Repeal”” you should have stated “” Phased Out””
http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/repeal
Perhaps rather than “”Repeal”” you should have stated “” Phased Out””
Perhaps you shouldn’t have chosen RETROSPECTIVE in my name … most intelligent people know that laws generally have a “grandfathering” … phase in period … something I would have expected you to know – being a tax guru an’ all …
Your comments above demonstrate :
The worst of right wing tories – lying
The worst of your claimed profession – cheating
The worst of the god-botherers – deceitfulness
And a fear that anyone else could possibly challenge your god given right to be right … to play a wannabe Robber Baron …
Repealed laws are phased in … look up statute procedures not just the dictionary meaning … how many tax laws have been retrospective?
… retrospective? … if that were the case people would be up for millions in unpaid taxes for previous tax concessions … not even I would wish that on people … its actually unfair – a concept you don’t seem to understand … ivory tower complex …
ROFLMAO at You
No nIl, they telegraphed their intent which, as we can see, they duly followed through with. Hockey was very clear to holden that there was no help for them from this grubmint
No Help???
Subsidies were guaranteed until 2020 under the ATS. There was $400M promised from 2017-2020.
What Hockey told Holden was that they were not going to get any more money than was promised.
Subsidies were guaranteed until 2020 under the ATS.
The key word there nIl, is “were”. The libs had telegraphed their intent not to abide by that, Holden and Toyota knew exactly where they stood. In their first budget, this was one of the few promises they kept. Holden and Toyota left because they knew the funding was stopping.
Still waiting for you to back up your allegations too.
No you lying deadbeat.
They were told they were not going to get any more money than was promised.
You are inventing a story that does not exist.
You are inventing a story you want to believe.
All the money was in the forward estimates. And $400M was promised from 2017-2020.
http://www.business.gov.au/grants-and-assistance/manufacturing/ats/Pages/default.aspx
The Automotive Transformation Scheme (ATS) commenced on 1 January 2011 and will run until 31 December 2017.
The ATS will provide $1.6 billion in capped assistance and approximately $348 million in uncapped assistance.
Funding was promised until 2020. Because Holden/Toyota said they were leaving the money promised was stopped at December 2017.
Why give them $400M from 2017-2020 if they will not be here.
Money promised was promised.
You are inventing a story that is wrong.
All the money was in the forward estimates
So, what is it exactly that the grubmint is currently “backflipping” on nIl? 😯
You are inventing a story that is wrong.
You will need to highlight exactly where nIl. I have asked you this many times. You, on the other hand, are now changing your 2020 date to 2017 I note.
As I said, the grubmints intent was clearly telegraphed to the car makers BEFORE they left. It was widely surmised before the election that, should the libs win, the car makers would leave, precisely because of their belligerent attitude to the car makers.
It is highly likely that, should Labor have won, we would still have a car industry, especially now the dollar has dropped back. All they needed was a little more time. Which probably explains why hockey forced the issue
The Coalition ARE back flipping on the money in the forward estimates.
And i am not changing any dates. Money was promised until 2020.
Ford/Holden/Toyota said they were leaving in 2017.
So why give them money from 2017-2020.
And no. Before the Coailtion was elected they were told they were not going to get any more money than was promised from 2011-2020.
And they would have left no matter what because the ALP destroyed car manufacturing in this country because they do not know what they are doing
Money was promised until 2020.
Until the libs got in, and made things clear about where their priorities stood
They’ll only finance miners, religious nutters and swivelling tax-fuelled accountants
Before the Coailtion was elected
But once elected, even that became a distant dream. Hockey made it clear in Parliament he wanted them gone. What multi-miilon dollar concern would hang around with that sort of belligerence.
And now, they are trying to keep ’em here until the next election.
I hope they do hang around, because maybe, just maybe, Labor can save the Industry still. Who knows, Dare to Dream.
TomR
You are a totally immoral and unethical human being. Therefore totally suitable to the ALP.
No Coalition people want the auto industry to leave. That is a lie from hell.
Money was promised until 2020.
End of story.
End of story.
Except of course for the bit where you back up your allegations with, you know, evidence 😉
#justsayin’
Meanwhile, the yabot grubmint are BACK FLIPPING over ripping money away from the automotive industry, after the damage has been done.
Priceless.
You are the one making the allegations.
Show me a link where the Coalition said they were going to cut funding?
My understanding is that funding was there until 2020. There was $400M from 2017-2020.
AFTER, AFTER, AFTER the auto makers announced they were leaving of course there was a discussion about whether the subsidies should continue. Especially for the $400M from 2017-2020 when they will not be here.
Priceless.
Couldn’t find a smell in a fart factory … lies, deceit, theft … and absolute
incontinenceincompetence!Show me a link where the Coalition said they were going to cut funding?
AGAIN! 😯
But Mr Hockey appeared to concede the government was not willing to give money to Holden. ”Ultimately, what it comes down to is prosperity only comes from hard work and enterprise; it doesn’t come from the benevolence of taxpayers,” he said.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/taunts-in-parliament-and-text-brought-about-general-motors-holdens-exit-from-australia-20131211-2z6i6.html
Holden got the message alright and, sure enough, out went the money.
… it doesn’t come from the benevolence of taxpayers,” he said.
We’ll remember that in 2016, Hockey …
No TomR
You like the journalist (Hawthorne) are telling falsehoods.
Money was there until 2020. There were NO CUTS.
What happened is that because Ford left, Holden went back and wanted even MORE money. I think they asked for an extra $150M/year. Hockey told them to get stuffed.
Don’t believe everything you read in the SMH.
FRom my earlier link
“The Automotive Transformation Scheme (ATS) commenced on 1 January 2011 and will run until 31 December 2017.
The ATS will provide $1.6 billion in capped assistance and approximately $348 million in uncapped assistance.”
And there was also $400M from 2017-2020 but that was cut because they were not going to be here.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/qantas-revokes-no-fly-ban-for-paul-leary/story-fn6yjmoc-1227258507111
Qantas’ travel ban has been lifted on the chap who participated in a protest during the take off of an aircraft, but he’s unhappy that his colleague is still banned.
He should be grateful that he hasn’t been charged with not complying with an air safety instruction and sued by Qantas for deliberately delaying the aircraft.
Airlines that are about to take off are no place for any protests, even those that people consider well intentioned.
You like the journalist (Hawthorne) are telling falsehoods.
Funny, because all the talk at the time was about leaners and the need to end Government subsidies to industries.
Yet you call the journalist quoting hockey a liar?
Interesting.
Wouldn’t it be better to go straight to the sauce and just call hockey a liar?
Yep, hawthorne is a liar. Just like you.
Funding was promised until 2020 otherwise why are we talking about the $400M they are not going to get from 2017-2020.
There were no funding cuts to the ATS.
After Ford left Holden wanted an EXTRA $150M/year.
Hockey tole Holden to get stuffed and they were lucky to get what was promised to 2020.
There were no funding cuts to the ATS.
How do you explain this statement?
Cuts to the ATS were only announced after the auto makers said they were leaving.
“”They’ll only finance miners, religious nutters and swivelling tax-fuelled accountants””
Wait a minute……………………….I was in a previous life a Catholic CFO of a Gold Miner.
Listen deadbeat.
The money promised was in the budget and in the forward estimates until 2020.
To change that the Coalition have to get legislation through the Senate which they cannot do.
Furthermore Holden wanted even more money. An extra $150M/year over what Rudd/Gillard promised.
Hockey told them to get stuffed.
Listen deadbeat.
ROFL
Why??
You are a liar TomR.
Money in the ATS was promised until 2020. It was in the budget and forward estimates.
Holden wanted even more money because Ford left. An extra $150M/year.
Hockey told them to get stuffed.
But the biggest problem was the total waste of money. We could have been building rainwater tanks for all that money.
Hockey told them to get stuffed.
And then some. In addition to it being well known that they didn’t even want to deliver the initial promise, which they ripped out at the first opportunity (or tried to)
Is it possible for you to stop calling me a liar until perhaps you are able to highlight the lie. You know, quote me 😉
eg, this is a quote.
What the closure of Australia’s automotive industry means – in facts:
1. Australia will forego $127 billion of GDP, for more than 36,000 businesses. This will result in Adelaide’s economy going backwards by almost one per cent and Melbourne’s going backwards by 1.4 per cent compared to forecasts.
2. Australia will forego $3.5 billion of exports every year.
3. More than 50,000 direct jobs and many, many more indirect jobs will be lost.
4. These Australian employees will forgo $17 billion of wages.
5. It will cost the Commonwealth and State Governments millions of dollars of welfare payments and re-skilling assistance if the automotive sector closes.
6. It will also cost the Commonwealth and State Governments millions of dollars of revenue if the automotive industry closes, through reduced company tax receipts, payroll tax and land tax receipts.
7. Australia will have no independent ability to design or produce military or transport vehicles should we again be engaged in a major conflict, and little chance of re-building this capacity. If you don’t believe me just have a look at how many former automotive engineers are now working to build military assets like the Bushmaster.
8. The industry is an important source of on the job engineering training to Australia’s graduate and younger engineers that would be lost forever.
9. About $480 million of research and development is invested in the automotive sector and many of these innovations flow on to other sectors, including mining.
10. Automotive engineers have one of the best jobs in the world. Right now, in every Australian school thousands of kids wonder what it might be like to design cars.
11. Australia will be a less diverse economy, relying even more on our mining, education, financial services and agriculture sectors.
12. The reality is that most industries receive some sort of government support.
13. Given our automotive industry has taken many decades to develop, it is unlikely Australia would regain its ability to design, engineer and build cars ever again.
http://www.professionalsaustralia.org.au/blog/abbotts-arrogance-causes-devastating-day-for-australian-engineering/
Look at point 7 and recall your previous yammering about another small automotive maker you so lovingly linked to. Kiss that goodbye in good time.
No Tom R you fucking liar.
Funding was promised until 2020. The initial promise was going to happen.
After Ford left they wanted even more.
Hockey told them they were not going to get an EXTRA $150M/year
the initial promise was going to happen.
except when it didn’t lol Just like they insinuated all the time.
I’ll take that as a no, you won’t stop calling me a liar without proving it.
Actually it did.
You are a liar.
What is in the news is the funding cut from 2017-2020 because there is no need to give them $400m because they will not be here.
The Automotive Transformation Scheme (ATS) commenced on 1 January 2011 and will run until 31 December 2017.
The ATS will provide $1.6 billion in capped assistance and approximately $348 million in uncapped assistance.
It would have continued until 2020 if they didn’t leave.
Hockeys threats in parliament
Mr HOCKEY (North Sydney—The Treasurer) (14:08): The best return on investment that you can have is for a business to invest its own money, make its own profits and remain sustainable. That is the best return of investment you can have.
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=CHAMBER;id=chamber%2Fhansardr%2F5c41e365-7ca7-47aa-a810-1c6e44b75e5e%2F0047;query=Id%3A%22chamber%2Fhansardr%2F5c41e365-7ca7-47aa-a810-1c6e44b75e5e%2F0046%22
It would have continued until 2020 if they didn’t leave.
Yea, I can get that from what hockeys saying 😯
Neil is a lost (in his own synapses, apparently) cause…
Undoubtedly toilet. Undoubtedly.
No dual deadbeats.
Funding was promised until 2020.
It was in the budget and forward estimates.
TomR is in fantasy laa laa land inventing fairy tales that are not true.
Do you think Kneel is a love child … Wonder Willie’s?
Astounding “narrative” …
I’m beginning to wonder why I comment here …
No Tb
I am sick of ALP lies.
Holden announced it was leaving in December 2013 just 2 months after Abbott won govt.
They were always going to leave.
But under the Rudd ATS funding was promised until 2020.
There were no subsidy cuts by the Abbott govt. That is just wishful thinking by TomR.
By the way Ford announced they were leaving in 2013 under Rudd.
Holden announced they were leaving in December 2013 and then this was followed by Toyota in February 2014.
The first Coalition budget was not until may 2014.
Anybody who says the first Coalition budget had anything to do with what happened is lying.
Funding was promised until 2020.
No Cuts were promised to the ABC
Pensions were promised not to be changed.
They promised no cuts to health
They promised no changes to school funding
You see where I’m going with the libs promises don’tcha nIl 😉
No i don’t see where you where you are going.
Ford/Holden/Toyota announced they were leaving before the first Coalition budget.
What you are doing is telling lies as usual.
And there were NO CUTS TO ATS FUNDING.
What you are doing is telling lies as usual.
As I said, feel free to provide the unreferenced lie you reference so often
Holden Left after hockey badgered them out of the country. I linked to it just above.
I wonder if the thin skinned sod loses any sleep over the forgoing of $17 billion of wages because of his petulance?
No, Holden left because Ford left. Only an insane person would say they left because Hockey insulted them.
So not only are you a liar you are insane.
Funding was there until 2020 and Holden knew that. But they left anyway.
I wonder if you lose any sleep because your false beliefs drowned several thousand people, trashed our budget and destroyed our car manufacturing industry?
Funding was there until 2020 and Holden knew that.
Even though hockey said this, as he dared them to leave
The best return on investment that you can have is for a business to invest its own money, make its own profits and remain sustainable. That is the best return of investment you can have.
Being called insane by a madman ROFL
You got the bit where I’m a liar yet, or you just sticking with me being insane? 🙂
So Hockey said BOO and Holden up and left?
You are indeed insane.
Kneeeeeeeeeeeel…!
Stop, Relax & listen to 2GB…
So Hockey said fuck off and Holden did.
And could you blame them?
“”Stop, Relax & listen to 2GB…””
Lol… I hope you don’t mind if I borrow that…. 🙂
I’m in Sydney and was driving back to Bondi this evening and listening to Andrew Bolt and Steve Price.
They have genuinely lost the plot – probably reflecting the popular views in the mainly unsophisticated suburbs of this place.
This week is really turning into week of the arse-hats aint it. After eleventy basically told canoe-building state to fcuk-off with their auto-welfare, mcfarlane has been sent-in to beg them to stay `and` bribe`em with around a 100-mill. Good to see they`re `stayin-the-course`.
#But that`s just for entre, the main-course is eleventy digging himself deeper into the hypocrisy pit. All that wailing the teabags did over 18c, and how everybody had their `right` to `free-hate-speech`. Only a few headlines from fairfox and eleventy has gone to tears. What a fcuking sook!
#the.hypocrisy.it.burns #boo.hoo.teabag
”””””’What the closure of Australia’s automotive industry means â in facts:”””
#Sorry canoe-cheerer, that list smells quite `cherry-picked` and are more like `guestimates`, not `facts`.
#The only thing that are `facts`, and omitted from the list are;
toyota will sack X-number of jobs and not produce $X-of-product, ditto for each other brand. There will be knock-on effects of course, but we can`t really know what is true/false about them. Remember, many components were already imported, engines, gearbox, panels, interiors etc and merely `assembled` into a vehicle.
are more like `guestimates`, not `facts`
ROFL
The ColouredCartonCounter is accusing a fucken ENGINEER of “guessing” ROFL
Back on ya walk teamcounter
peraps ya just need a knew abba-cus teamcounter?
Well Team-cheerer,
toyota will sack X-number of jobs=`fact`
toyota will not produce $X-of-product=fact (ditto for each other brand.)
+
”””’10.Automotive engineers have one of the best jobs in the world. Right now, in every Australian school thousands of kids wonder what it might be like to design cars.””””’
#definitely a `feel-pinion`, author can`t possibly `know` the `thoughts` of 1000`s of kids, or other engineers #ie.not.a.fact
+
”””””12.The reality is that most industries receive some sort of government support””””’
#so what. Not a `fact`-`coz-auto-is-closing`, EG.doesn`t have anything to do with how much `job-contractors` get in kick-backs thru the dole-office system
+
”””’7.Australia will have no independent ability to design or produce military or transport vehicles should we again be engaged in a major conflict, and little chance of re-building this capacity.””””’
#while probably true, again, so what, take a look at the `canoe` builders, just coz they `exist`, doesn`t mean imbecile politicians will use them instead of feeding their fetish about teh-usa/off-shoring #jap-subs #f35-flying-junk
ls teabag-baird giving anybody else the shits .. he sounds like an over-promising garden-gnome
Just read this … Frackman!
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/dayne-pratzky-coal-seam-gas-crusader-and-maker-of-the-movie-frackman-is-the-aussie-hero-youve-never-heard-of/story-fnk850z8-1227263376204
Fkn Robber Barons!
oh looky, we did exactly the same stupid fcuking thing as teh-usa (yet-again) .. and got the exact same disasterous result (yet-again) .. #fracking.teabags #oh.the.surprisement
Up yours, Obama!
I suppose it is back to the golf course for Barry now that the Great Appeaser has failed in his attempt to interfere in Israel’s elections, even sending a team of high-powered Democrat strategists.
… and got the exact same …
I do hope that’s a sarcasm aimed at the USA use of the term … that is “exactly the same” …
Yanks obviously aren’t taught the use of adverbs … and certainly don’t know where to use them … ToM Clancy’s writing style is classic in that regard …
PS sorry for the late comment – been a bit tied up on another “fred” … 🙂
Haaretz?? sb … you do get around …
… do you suppose that Abbott had any external assistance?
Are you a supporter of Bibi?
TB, it is extremely unlikely I would like anyone Haaretz supports. It is the Israeli equivalent of Green/Left Weekly. I read it because I like to understand what the loonies are thinking. (Much as I like to listen to Philip Adams on Late Night Live.)
The thing I like about this result is that Obama did not get his own way. But who knows what coalition will emerge?
I like Tzipi Livni. Bibi is OK. A little OTT some times – he can’t be serious about killing off the two-state solution can he? That will really upset Obama. Bougie Herzog seems alright too – at least he hasn’t tried to kill off the two state solution. Naftali Bennett is interesting on TV, but he has said a few quite mad things. I don’t follow Israeli politics closely enough to have firm views.